January 13, 2025 — Police Oversight Panel Regular Meeting

Transcript

Captions from City of Boulder YouTube recording.

[0:03] Just reminder to panel members any chat communications don't use the chat. Just say them out loud. And the minutes are also gonna be taken by Selena as well. Everyone's a co-host and all that. Good stuff. All right. Well, welcome to our January meeting. We start with our land acknowledgement. So we acknowledge the Arapaho, Ute and Cheyenne tribes, the traditional custodians of the land on which the police oversight panel and the Boulder police department operate, and we pay our respects to the elders, past and present. also a reminder to panel members of the agreements we made between each other during our retreat earlier this last year about the way we treat each other and the way we treat our business. there's a full land acknowledgement on our website. So if you're interested in the full statement that is also available.

[1:01] like to welcome the public and in potential press to the meeting and thank you, panel members for making the time to be here once again and acknowledge anything in the moment or in this week that may have been challenging for members of the public. We do have the Q. And a feature to answer smaller questions. But if you really have a larger question, or a statement, or anything like that, you can save that for the public comment which will happen in the 1st half of our meeting. If you need to submit a complaint. there's 2 ways you can go to our website, which is Boulder, colorado.gov forward, slash services forward, slash police, dash oversight or email the panel directly at all. One word, police oversight panel at Boulder, colorado.gov. These meetings are public, and they're also will be posted to our website as well.

[2:02] If anyone has any accessibility issues. you know. Please let us know by contacting us directly. And the roll call is that something that we do now? Or is that necessary? Okay. so just a roll call of panel members who are present, please. is that how we're doing that? The roll call. I think, and then you note the absences of who isn't present. So it looks like we have Abigail, Alan, Chico, Melin, Bill and Lizzie.

[3:00] Let's see. Victor, typically, we've been doing it just like calling out the names of each panel member, and we'll say, present or not, and then we can mark down the the attendance. I believe. I'm just going. My memory. Does someone have the list? Or you just want to call out, I need some help. I can try to pull it up. But, Selena, do you maybe have it up by chance? Otherwise I can grab it for you. I can do it. Just give me a moment. You can also call out the names by the order that you see people on your screen. So you can start with. I see Abigail on my right hand side, so you can just say, Abigail, and then Abigail will say here, and then you can go on to the next person. and then so forth. Yeah, that's the way I've seen it, too. Alright, Abigail, I see you here. Here.

[4:00] Alan. Alan is here. Chico. Yeah. Melan. Here. So. I am present, and here. Lizzie. Here. And sterling. Good to see you as well. Thank you. I'm here. And then not seeing Soledad, Jason and Ab. Is that correct? In Luna. And Luna. And Luna. So next is approval of the agenda. We'll make a motion to approve the agenda. Second. And our next item is approval of the minutes from last month's meeting.

[5:02] We have to vote on the minutes. The agenda you mean. The agenda. Sorry. So by show of hands vote of yes, to approve the agenda. Okay, that's noted. And then next, we have the approval of the minutes. Motion to approve. Second. Seconded. And a vote to approve the minutes. Alright! Okay, that is noted. Were you able to get that, our 1st report will be about community outreach and engagement.

[6:11] And so I will pass that off. Okay, I'll go ahead and jump in here. We met gosh, was it just last week last week, or the week before I forget, and had a great conversation about some next steps. I'm just gonna kind of share some of those I've I've already reached out to Ryan Hansen, who does a lot of the community engagement work for the city, and we're putting together a meeting next week to just kind of talk through block parties and the community connectors, and any ways that we can just partner with some of the things that the city is already doing around community engagement. And so that's gonna be in process. And Luna was. Gonna look at the city of Boulders Calendar, just to kind of see if there were events there that the city is already planned.

[7:04] and in conjunction with talking to Ryan, I think that we can also look at that. We were thinking about doing some just monthly circles like letting the public know that we're Gonna be at the Trident Cafe from 5 to 6 pm. On this particular day and inviting people just to kind of just to start to do some experimentation around, seeing if people are wanting to engage in these conversations, seeing who shows up. So just a way to start to gauge the level of community involvement in this work with our with our panel and with policing in general. we talked about things like going to San Juan, which is over off of Belmont and 30, th and and going to communities like that to meet with them. They have meeting spaces and things like that, so it might be a good way for us to engage with folks. I know that. There's a

[8:09] Mlk. Event on January 19th at the Jcc. That some of us are going to in the afternoon. I think, Sherry, you're going to that. And you know, I'm gonna go. It's from 3 to 5. So I think those will be great places to network and just talk to people about some of the things we do. Some of the other folks in the city that we talked about was the Boulder Housing Authority, the Nest Human Relations Commission and the city of boulder housing human services. I thought I'd start with Ryan and then kind of see how I can move through some of these other areas. And then we talked about a budget for either snacks or food, and we talked about like a level one, which was just some snacks and water versus a level 2, which would be we were doing something during the dinner hour. How would that look? And so so those are some of the things that will be in progress. We talked a little bit about

[9:14] working with the library, and although Milan has mentioned that in her endeavors to get space for some of the groups she's involved with. It takes a while, and it they seem to be booked up pretty quickly, so we'll just kind of keep that in the back pocket of, if we if it's possible. And then we talked a little bit, too, about how to stay in touch with past panel members, not only to keep them engaged, but to have communications with them. and to keep that institutional knowledge and insight, something that is part that we can keep as part of our group. And then the last thing we talked about is doing exit interviews with, like, you know that Victor's heading off, and I think Chico's heading off. And so we talked about possibly having Maria be that person to do an exit interview with folks who are leaving the panel to be able to hear their experiences and things that may support the work or be different in a way that can support us more effectively.

[10:23] So those are some of the main things I know we have 5 min. So did I miss anything for those of you who are on that call. We just have a lot of things in progress right now. So I wish I could say, there's something solid that we're gonna plan. But I think I think it's all in the works right now. Once I meet with Ryan, I'll have a little better idea of what the city's up to. I think Chico is staying, though. Oh, Chico, stand. Okay. Abigail is leaving. Abigail. Okay, sorry. Thanks for the clarification. I'm on for one more year. All right. So it's Victor and Abigail. Okay, okay, great

[11:05] Hi, Luna, I was just finishing up with the community engagement. Calm presentation. Just talked a little bit about some of the things we talked about with the trident. I don't know if there's anything that you wanted to add. I basically went over all the notes that I shared with everybody. Nothing to add here. I still need to connect with me, Len, to actually get a date on the books for one of those. Okay. So that's on my best to do. Okay. And I I think you were mentioning who's leaving. I'm also leaving at the end of this term, which I believe my, the last date is in March, so are you supposed to come to the March meeting? Or I can also ask this question later. Kind of coming in. Expectation was that the the last meeting for panelists is going to be February

[12:04] for those of us, for those of you who are who are leaving us, and that's 1 of the reasons why February is going to be an in person meeting for members of the panel. Great. Great. So will it make sure and include. The 3 of you in those exit. Interview pieces. Also with city manager. Nice. Okay, I think that's all I have, Victor. So. Any questions or comments, for from anyone. Okay. Thank you. Alright! Thank you, Bill, and and Luna and everyone the next. We'll have the report from our Independent police monitor with sherry. Well that I'll pull that up in just a moment. I just wanted to say several of you I've seen in the last week or so during case reviews. But to those who I haven't Happy New Year, I hope that things are going well for all of you, and that 2025 is a good year, not only for the panel and police oversight, but for all of you individually.

[13:20] Even those who are leaving us. Okay. Everyone see every. See the screen? Okay? Yes. Okay? Well, the January 2,025 boulder police oversight panel meeting report. And so the full case file data or full case, file review data for December 2024 is one case was reviewed. There are currently 0 case files that are awaiting Bpd disposition, and there are 11 case files awaiting completion by panel review set. 2 were done last week, but in bold are the ones that either need to be scheduled or are scheduled, or we're finishing up our review.

[14:29] The cases that we completed in there that Bpd closed out in December of last year, and Mi. 2,024 0 1 3, officer one responded to a domestic incident in the summer of 2023, and determined that there was probable cause for both the complainant and her boyfriend to be arrested. The complainant did not turn herself into Bpd. For arrest, as she had arranged months later, in response to another domestic incident officers arrested the complainant based on the summer 2023 incident.

[15:01] She complained about both the validity of her arrest and the force used by the officers, officers, and allegations against Officer one rule, one. General order, 101 unbiased policing arrested complainant based on her race. The panel recommended that that allegation be not sustained, and the Department also agreed that it would be not sustained. second allegation officer. One rule, one general order, 203. Investigative responsibility and case assignments, did not perform investigative steps and or maintain his case file appropriately. The panel recommended that this allegation be sustained with verbal counseling, and the Department agreed with that recommendation officer. One had a rule 5. Allegation lacked legal authority to arrest, complainant. The panel recommended that this allegation be unfounded, and the department agreed.

[16:04] Officer. One had a rule. 6. Use of force dragged complainant during and or after her arrest. The panel recommended this allegation be not sustained and the department unfounded. The allegation. The final allegation for officer one is a rule. 6. Use of force placed a spit sack on complainant. The panel recommended, the allegation be unfounded, and the department exonerated the allegation officer. 2 had a rule, 6. Allegation, a use of force dragged complainant during and or after her arrest, the panel recommended that allegation be not sustained, and the department determined the or their fine. The department's final determination was unfounded. and Officer 2 had a second rule 6. Allegation placed a spit sock on complainant. The panel recommended this be unfounded, and the department exonerated the allegation, and officer 3 had a

[17:06] rule, 6 use of force dragged complainant during and or after her arrest. The panel recommended. This be not sustained, and the department determined that it would be unfounded. and Officer three's allegation of Rule 6 placed a Spitzock. I'm complainant, the panel recommended. It's unfounded, and the department determined that it was exonerated. the panel had a lot of comments about this case, and they expressed incredulity at the overall treatment of the complainant by Bpd officers. They noted that not only was she a victim of domestic violence, but that Bpd. Arrested her for harassment and domestic abuse of her abuser when he was in her home in violation of an order of protection. In addition, her arrest stem from her earlier contact with Officer 2. Regarding the alleged violation of a protection order by her abuser's mother panel members were appalled that Bpd. Responded to a complainant's attempts to receive help and service by using her contact as an opportunity to arrest her for an incident that occurred over 4 months prior. The panel members considered this conduct in opposition to trauma-informed response and a significant breach of trust by Bpd. Officers.

[18:17] Additionally, panel members opined that the manner of the officers created unnecessary distress and contributed to her lack of cooperation. The reviewing panel members found that the manner that officer once spoke with complainant on the telephone was unacceptable throughout their interactions. Panel members noted that officers were belittling towards her, interrupted her, and overall displayed an attitude of entitlement and superiority. The panel members expressed deep concern about the training and practice of patrol officers regarding their response to domestic violence. Incidents and victims, especially considering that they knew she was a domestic violence survivor, that there was a protection order granted to protect her against her abuser, and that trauma responses are common. When a domestic violence survivor engages with law enforcement. The panel members request that Bpd. Share the domestic violence. Training Bpd officers received both in their initial Academy training and as continuing education.

[19:08] Additional recommendations were that, although officers easily distinguish the Boulder County jail from the Boulder police station, the law Enforcement entities can easily be confused by community members. The panel members recommended that Bpd officers be required to send a follow-up text message and or email with clear instructions to members of the public which include the address of where they should report. and the chief's response in part abbreviated. It was, I'm directing our training team to review this incident, to see where we can improve and where we can provide coaching and additional training to the involved officers as appropriate, and regarding the request from the panel to have more information about what training our staff receives on domestic violence related matters. This was provided in the Quarterly Update in early December. MI. 22, 4 officers responded to a call from a convenience store. Upon arrival, officers observed Complainant, who matched the description of the offender trying to get into the locked store. Officers wanted to detained complainant, while Officer 3 went inside to speak with the clerk. Officer. 3 returned and reported that there was no crime involving complainant, but that the store wanted complainant, trespassed.

[20:19] complainant, refused to provide his name or id, and upon instruction from Officer 2 officer, 3 handcuffed complainant pending. Learning his name. Sergeant, one came on scene, learned the situation, and instructed that the officers release the complainant officer. One had a rule, one allegation, customer service value verbally escalated the encounter with complainant. The panel recommended that this allegation be sustained with verbal counseling the department determined that it was not sustained for Officer one's Rule 4. Allegation did not accommodate complainants. Request to move out of the glare of the police headlights. The panel and the department agreed that this was exonerated for Officer one's Rule 5. Allegation grabbed and or handcuffed the complainant. The panel recommended that the allegation be sustained, and that the officer received verbal counseling, and

[21:14] the department determinations were sustained with verbal counseling officer. One had a rule 5. Allegation extended. The detention of the complainant after reasonable suspicion had dissipated. the panel recommended, sustained with verbal counseling, and the Department agreed for Officer 2. Rule 5 extended the detention of complainant after reasonable suspicion dissipated panel recommended that the allegation be sustained with verbal counseling and training, and the department agreed for Officer 3. Rule 5 grabbed and or handcuffed complainant. The panel recommended. This allegation be sustained with verbal counseling, and the department agreed with the sustained allegation and verbal counseling.

[22:01] and for Officer three's rule 5. Allegation extended the detention of the complainant, after reasonable suspicion, dissipated the panel recommended, sustained with verbal counseling, and the department agreed, and then, sergeant, one had an allegation extended the detention of the complainant, after reasonable suspicion dissipated and the panel recommended. This be unfounded, and the department agreed. The panel members also noted Sergeant one's calmness and quickness in appropriately assessing the situation, and determined that officers one and 3 also remain calm despite the complainants, provocations. The panel wants to encourage officers, especially those with limited experience to be encouraged to reach out to their supervisors when they are unsure how to proceed. Officers are further encouraged to voice concerns when they believe their peer officers are acting outside of their legal authority. The chief's response in part was that leadership was directed to ensure that verbal counseling did occur about how this incident could have been handled better or differently, and that since this incident there haven't been any similar issues with these officers, and if there have to ensure a plan is in place to have retraining, or additionally, additional counseling or coaching

[23:18] for mi. 2, 0 2, 4, 0 3, 0 officer. One observed the complainant drive in an unsafe manner, followed him, and observed another complainant. an observed complainant, perform another regular traffic mover, maneuver, officer, one continued to observe the vehicle and conducted a traffic stop outside of Boulder City limits. Allegation. One was Rule 5 conducted a traffic stop without legal authority in violation of the 4th Amendment. The panel recommended. This be exonerated. The Department determined that it should be unfounded. The panel had some comments on this case. They expressed confusion about why, Officer one followed the complainant for miles if he was concerned that the driver was impaired, and then they were further confused. Why, Officer, one did not investigate further about the complainant's potential impairment. They noted that encounters with police are inherently stressful for most people, and the experience of being tracked by an officer for several miles outside of the officer's jurisdiction is nerve wracking, and disconcerting

[24:16] officer. One and all Bpd. Officers are encouraged to conduct their actions in a manner that is considerate of all people impacted. and the panel also shared that probable cause, not mere suspicion, is required in this instance. and Mi. 2,024, officer one, observed the complainant, sleeping on the property of a private business officer. One, wrote the complainant a ticket for trespassing. While expressing her displeasure. The complainant threw a glass object to the ground. Breaking it. Officer 2 wrote her a ticket for littering with agreement from Sergeant one Allegations Officer, one rule 5 issued a trespassing ticket and or solicited a trespass to complainant.

[25:05] The recommendation this is that should actually be from the oh, no, this is mine. Sorry as I recommended it, be exonerated, and the Department determined that it was also exonerated. For Officer one's rule 4. Allegation retaliated against complainant. I recommended, not sustained, and the department agreed with the not sustained a rule. 5. For Officer 2 issued a littering summons to complainant. I recommended exonerated, and the Department agreed with that exonerated recommendation, and Sergeant one rule 5 issued a littering summons to complainant. I recommended, exonerated, and the department agreed. Mi. 2,024, 0 5 6 officers responded to a call where the complainant alleged he was being chased and harassed by a group of women during the interaction with police. The complainant was agitated, uncooperative, and confusing. He alleged that the responding officers harassed him. Psu informed Cert about the complainant allegations

[26:10] against officer one and 2 were both rule 4. Harass the complainant. I recommended that the allegation be unfounded, and the department agreed. Mi. 2, 0, 2, 4, 0 6, 8 officer. One observed the complainant on the sidewalk, wearing a tactical vest officer. One approached and inquired about the vest. The complainant responded that she does not answer questions. Body worn, camera captured, officer one providing his name to the complainant upon classification. The Monitor recommended this case be closed, unfounded. The allegations were against Officer one inappropriately questioned complainant. The panel determined this should be unfounded, and the department agreed, and Officer one also had an allegation that failed to identify himself as required by general Order 205. The panel recommended that this be

[27:05] unfounded, and the department agreed. and the panel members also noted that noted Officer one's calm demeanor and de-escalation. At the same time they noted that officer. One could have shown more awareness of the power dynamics when he approached the complainant, perhaps communicating more clearly why he had stopped to engage. They noted that members of the transgender community are disproportionately impacted by police violence and hostility, and that, questioning the clothing choices of a member of this community may be especially sensitive. Panel members reported, looking forward to continued conversation about the Department's consideration of vulnerable populations. and Mi. 2, 0, 2, 4, 0 6, 9. A man left a voicemail message for Psu, alleging rude treatment by Bpd officers, but did not provide any details to identify the date, location or officers involved. He did not respond to Psu's multiple attempts to learn more details. The allegation against an unknown officer rule 4 respect for others, rudeness. I recommended that this be closed as employee unidentified, and the department agreed.

[28:14] Okay, looking at the case, statistics from December 2,024, and I classified 14 complaints. 8. Of those were misconduct allegations. 2 were serious misconduct allegations. There were 2 community inquiries, 2 community feedbacks and 0 conflict facilitation process recommendations. I observed 4 interviews. There were 0 critical incident scene responses. I deemed 4 investigations thorough and complete, and Bpd closed the 7 cases we just heard of. And

[29:04] okay. so our open docket, as of January 3, rd 2,025 was 46 cases. 30 of those have been classified. 2 of them were pending monitor classification, and 14 were in Psu preliminary investigation stage. Looking at our 2024 open case dockets, all open classified cases in q. 1 and Q. 2 are either closed already, or awaiting panel, review and all quarter. Q. 3 cases have either the interviews completed, or have been deemed their own complete. And in the somewhere in the chain of command review. And just because it's the we just closed out a year. I wanted to just share some of the preliminary 2,024 case statistics, and so overall, we had 91 misconduct cases

[30:07] in 2024, 85 were regular misconduct cases, 6 were serious. 21 community inquiries, 16 community feedbacks, 4 cases that I referred to the conflict facilitation process, 19 cases referred to other agencies for a total of 149 cases total and something that I'm really happy to see in the year 2,024. There were no weapons, firearms, discharges from Bpt towards humans. and to provide the update on the officer involved shooting. From December 2023. The initial review of the case file with assigned panel members occurred on January 8, th 2,025

[31:04] in the month of December I attended the city of Boulders, youth, opportunity, Advisory Board, 30th anniversary celebration, and I presented before the Police Union's new leadership and their representatives. Are there any questions Chico. Yes, can. I can. I just refer you back to to Mi. Case number MI. 2, 0 2, 4. Dash 2 0 twofold. I was waiting for you, so I didn't put the slideshow away this time. Yes, so my my question pertains to the Bpd chief response, the last part. So so maybe this is a question.

[32:02] I just want to raise it here. Maybe it's a question that needs to be raised with the police chief. So the last part there is it says something to ensure a plan is in place to have retraining and additional counseling and coaching. So we're going to be retraining people who have been trained and to be retrained again, and offer cancelling on people who have been offered Biblical. I can share some insight into this. So when does all this escalate into something serious, or when dupe? We see consequences? Because we can't keep canceling people. Well, this is a this is an interesting situation. Where, when this case happened, the police department realized that there was some confusion amongst the officers that they they should remedy. So in.

[33:05] I believe it was the month of April offhand they had briefings, trainings. It would be called roll call trainings in most other departments, so they specifically trained all of the officers on this issue of not detaining people for the purpose of getting their identification or name, when for to issue them a trespass, not a not charging them with the trespass, but a civil trespass from the property owner. So when we reviewed this, the panel members actually had determined that if those officers attended those briefing trainings that that was that that would fulfill this coaching or verbal counseling requirement. And this is the chief basically saying that

[34:01] a follow up in the in the interim. But if those officers had not been in attendance at the day that the the briefings happen that they would still need to get additional training. Okay, okay, I'm just I, I get concerned with this canceling thing. So I'm gonna keep talking about it until we see change. I appreciate that Chico do you have anything else to ask her, Ed. No, I'm good, thank you. Okay. I see Lizzie next. Yeah. 1st of all, I really appreciate your comments. But I was just gonna ask, do we know sherry? You mentioned the statistic about no firearms being discharged at people in 2024. Do we know for comparison what the 2023 numbers were, or what like any historical years.

[35:06] I know that there were in 2023. There were 2 fatal police officer involved shootings. Okay. I'm not aware of any. Other firearm discharges. But that could just be. You know I wasn't here for all of 2023, and I believe there, I mean I I'm not sure that's a that's a great question for Mr. Reinhart. Thanks. Okay. Mila. Yeah, thank you. Going back to the Dv, can we go back to the Dv case? And also the chief response, there's something that I

[36:07] so it says regarding the request from the panel to have more information about what training or staff receives on domestic violence related matter. This was provided in the Quarterly Update in early December. Did I miss that. It was. It was a question at the the last meeting with the chief. But the training. Oh, so it's not like paper like we can't read where their training is right. Oh. I see what I see what you're saying. No, he provided information on like what patrol officers versus detectives. I remember that. Okay, I think I would like to see it in writing

[37:04] and know be able to refer back to it and also as as was requested in a different case, I think to have to be able to participate in the different training as well, that would be one that I think, would be really important for us. And and then I had another question regarding the shooting from December 2023 you mentioned, and I I missed that. I I guess. You mentioned January 8.th It was provided to the panelists who are involved with this case, is that correct? Okay.

[38:03] thank you. Bill. Yes, I just want to support Chico's comments, because even in this one that Milan was referring to, it says, provide coaching and additional training. And I think what I'm hearing Chico say, as, what point do we say that that's not working and move on to something else? Or look at that. So I just wanna support that idea and that approach that And I know it's a question for the chief about so at what point do you say the trainings either not working or the coaching is not working if we keep seeing this type of thing so just more of a supportive comment. And I think it's something that we shouldn't let up on, because, like as a mediator, you don't keep mediating the same conflict over and over again. It keeps elevating, because

[39:01] obviously, if they didn't follow through the 1st time, then that's indicative of some larger issue. So just something I wanna keep keep in mind, as we continue to do these cases. Appreciate that thought. And okay, the other thing that I wanted to just share with the share with the group is that Erin Poe, who has been the attorney who's been working with oversight for several years, is accepting a new opportunity, and she is going to be moving on from the city of Boulder. And so Roberto Ramirez is currently or not currently, but will be assigned to oversight, at least in the interim which I'm pretty excited about. He's had some experience. Working on some

[40:04] pretty serious police misconduct issues in Arvada. I believe it was. Thank you. Sherry for that great update. Oh, so moving on to our next set of topics this will include some panel updates and some ad hoc items. and the 1st one of those items is talking about student panel member recruitment. And any updates on that. Oh, I have to talk again. so, as you know, as I've been sending out in some of our weekly updates, student recruitment is live until January 31, st we will be replacing the irreplaceable Luna and Abigail. And so, if you know any students, please

[41:04] share the word to them. There's like a handful of them who have officially applied I'm going to send them a message again now that they're hopefully back in the swing of the grind, that is, is their life. And the other information I wanted to share is that tomorrow night at the Penfield Tape building from 4, 30 to 6, 30 is going to be a boards and commissions open house, where the panel where myself and at least one panel member will be hopefully. 2 or more will be there, so that anyone any student who wants to inquire about the position can have the opportunity to to talk with us. So I'm going to be there from 4 30 to 5, 30. Anyone is welcome to come.

[42:01] Kind of. Is there like? Is the event longer than 4, 30 to 5, 30? Would it be helpful if I like covered more time, or should we be. It's 4, 30 to 6, 30, and I have a conflict. So I need to be at a place at 6. So that would be fantastic if you could it I mean it would be great if you you know you could be there for a big chunk. But if you want to you know. Make sure that that latter part is is covered. Whatever whatever you can do is great. Basically. Great. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. And thanks for that reminder about this event that is happening tomorrow evening. as mentioned, some of us are leaving, and there'll be a process that folks will engage in in March and February to elect new panel members. And so we just want to

[43:03] put some time in that to talk about it now and then. If this is something that we really need to talk about next month, and we can devote a larger chunk of time to talking about the co-chair election process. But if folks have things to share on that, now is the time. and then. Yeah. I wanted to offer maybe an option to do the process that's based on a sociocratic way of selection. and I did some research. And I think it's possible with some tweaks, because of what we have in our bylaws and our ordinance. But basically, for those who don't know what a sociocratic process of selection is is basically nobody runs, and everybody is on the table to be leaders. And so it opens the ground the floor to people who are too humble, too shy to feel.

[44:12] And you know, maybe like they're they're not good leaders to actually be considered by their peers as potential candidates, and it opens it. It brings up voices that are not the normal ones who run. And actually, I've seen it. I've seen the process, and it brings really wonderful leaders who didn't think they could be leaders. And so I wanted to offer that the process itself normally is very transparent and very a bit time consuming where you have, you have to define what are the duties of the role? Well, we have that already in the bylaws and in the ordinance. And what are the the term for the role? And we already have that as well in the bylaws, and and also one of the things that we have in the bylaws. Had prepared something to show, but I don't think I have time to. But the

[45:17] The ballots are secret for our elections, and so, normally, the sociocratic is very transparent where everybody goes around and say, I voted for this person because I see those qualities in this person, we wouldn't be able to quite do that. But I really like the idea of having an open floor for election, and I know that we will have new members at the time, so I would offer to have a round of really introducing ourselves to each other, to get to know each other a little bit better, and also a role around of defining what qualifications we'd like to see in a person as a leader for the next co-chairs, and so I wanted to offer that as a

[46:08] possibility. I'm happy to. If people are interested to talk about elections, and the best way to do it, to do an adult committee and discuss that, and propose that in February I can talk more about it, but I don't know. We we only have 5 min, and I want to give the floor to other people. But that was my my quick summary of what I'd like to see. Thoughts, comments. I think it's a great idea, Milan. I really appreciate you. Bringing that up. I would be curious. How do they typically handle like not everyone wants to be a Co. Chair or would can handle the additional workload, because I know it's pretty substantial. Is there a process for managing that, and sort of cascading.

[47:06] Yeah, it's all consent based. But we don't do it at the beginning of the election. It's just like if they are. If they are selected, then we go through a consent wrong round, and where people who were selected in the 1st round say, no, I really cannot take this on, and then we go to the next person. But we don't do that from the get go, just because it would change the energy really of the of the process. Thanks, sounds, great. Alan. I mean, I'm interested in helping helping with that. I think anything that kind of flatten out the flatten out the the process. Yeah, to more more of a consensus kind of model is a good idea. I think that kind of fits in with the philosophy of for the organization. In fact. all of a sudden you should be more consensus, based as opposed to parliamentary.

[48:04] Great, great. Thank you so much. Is there something you can email to the panel so we can have something to chew on for food, for thought. Yeah, I had made a quick presentation. I can send it to everyone, and then I can also send a link to the sociocracy for all websites, so that you know what what the whole process is. I think it's really, really interesting. I've seen it at work, and it's it. It works. It works well. And we've had great leaders who didn't know they could be leaders. And so I really appreciated that in the process. So I'll forward that to to all of you my my presentation is a little short, but I'll give you an idea of what I'm thinking about.

[49:04] Thank you. That sounds good. And then we can definitely devote more time to that in our next meeting. And it will be more important, but also just to plant the seed of. You know, we need people to sort of lead this ship, and it's usually crickets when we talk about this, because from my recollections. no one wants to do all this extra stuff. So it's just good to start this conversation now. And you know just what you think about this. So I appreciate that. Well, I think we need to have it before next meeting, because we're voting at next stop. Aren't we voting in February or in March? No march. Okay. February will be the last meeting for the current co-chairs. And then, yeah. so we had a meeting with the police chief. Just wanna spend some time to debrief from that. If anything came up for folks or anything that's

[50:03] still lingering from that, there's something you're looking forward to for the next meeting. Perhaps amulet. I felt that there was some impetus from the chief and the department in general. I was somewhat pleasantly surprised. With with a little bit of you know me. I'm always a little cautious when I say that, but I appreciated some of the work that they've done, and I'm really looking forward to really seeing when they promised us but also

[51:01] I still feel the need that we need more more data, more specific data from the department. Continue to ask that. yeah. But overall, I said, I felt it was a good meeting with a little bit of caution to the for the future. I don't want to be too enthusiastic, but They were trying to go in the right direction from what we've asked so far, so. Thank you. Melan chico. yeah, unfortunately, I couldn't attend the last meeting with the chief, so I I don't know what the response was regarding. The verbal canceling issue, and when that translates into performance, appraisal and the 4 months appraisal and all that. So what was the response.

[52:10] There's nothing that I can recall from that. Does anyone have anything to respond to that? From the meeting. I don't believe we asked that question, did we? I don't have notes on it. Maybe sherry, you can help us with that. Yes, the question was asked, and I do not want to like speak too much on behalf of the police, but that the that that information, you know, is included, and along with it in their like annual evaluations. and that

[53:02] it's not like 2 parallel systems of the oversight system, and then their performance review systems. They are they. They are brought together. What about the tracking of those cases? How far is it going. Well, that is something that we are in We've been working to actually make a pretty significant change, so that some of those you you see them in in the cases that I send out to you to vote on. I provide you with updates about that category called community feedbacks. So those are cases that are are now are tracked. And then for where verbal co, where verbal coaching is the the outcome based on the community members request that it not go through a formal discipline process, but then also

[54:06] it should be live. Now in starting in 2025. When supervisors outside of the disciplinary system, when they have a conversation, when they notice that there's something wrong, or when it's brought to their attention by a community member that it could have been done better, that those are also being tracked. Now. Previously they weren't supposed to enter that type of situation into the case management system. And that's a pretty big change that should be live currently. So it's not just going to be these cases that myself and the panel reviews for discipline, but get much more of a holistic, broad review of what's coming. What like issues are being raised by either members of the public outside of the disciplinary system, or internally through Bpd, so that those are being tracked. So when we see an officer's history, we can

[55:02] see it more comprehensively. And and even as they go through different supervisors that's tracked so they don't have challenges. and then go on to a different shift or a different assignment with a different supervisor and start from scratch. So that's now being it it should be being tracked 2025. So I think that's a pretty significant change. Thank you. Yeah, I forgot to say that also. I think what was really important is the worry of the over overly surveillance over surveillance of people in Boulder and through the through the license plate, reading through the different technologies used and all that. And we ask that the panel be trained on the

[56:07] different technologies that Bpd uses for surveillance. Basically, I think they didn't call it surveillance. But that's basic. That's what it is completely 100%. And so I'm I'm personally, I'm really worried about it. I'm really concerned. I think there's a potential of abuse with that. So I would like to be trained, and I would like to follow up with that as soon as possible. Thank you. Just reminder. If people reach out to you on Linkedin, Facebook. Reddit blue sky wherever you're at in social media. just please respond through your official channels meaning your city email address. If people are asking about police oversight business.

[57:09] just redirect it to your official email and then also redirect them to. If you have a question, don't ask me on Facebook email, police, oversight panel or email address, and you'll get the attention of all of us. So just a reminder about that. And it looks like we may have some emails coming about rescheduling our quarterly meetings with the police at Chief of Police. So just reminder to check your city emails twice a week, which will keep you in the loop of what's going on and what needs to be scheduled. So we're at the hour mark

[58:02] Should we do the the bio break? Or should we just go through and do the public comment. I think if we do the public comment, then take a break. Okay. That'd be my suggestion. So we have a public comment. Every member of the public will be asked if they'd like to comment. You'll get 2 min, and after 2 min the time will be up. We will have of city facilitator to mute the feed, and if someone needs more time we can also do that by a vote of the co-chairs. So. going down the list, we have 3 members of the public present. The 1st person does not have a name?

[59:02] 3, 8, 7, 4, 1, 8. Would you like to make a comment today? All right. The next person that I see is Lynn Siegel. Lynn, would you like to make a comment today? Could I have 3 min. Sure, we're just going to. I know the timer. We'll just keep track of the time for you, and we'll let you speak for 3 min. And I have a timer. That's been kind of problematic before. So I just don't want to make this easier for you. So. It's easiest for me to know how much time I have left that, rather than being just cut off.

[60:03] Okay. And if you choose a window. you could just put the timer in in a window. Yep. So we have a window open, and you are. Well, should I hit open time. It's open so you can. Yes. Luna Roselle's timer is running. Okay? For one. I'd like to see who I'm whom I'm present with on many zooms. I have participants. And I can. You know it's like, Am I the only one here? You know all this time that I put in this I also wanted to say, I really appreciate the issue of the domestic violence case where the woman was basically used. They used the fact that she called in to arrest her again to me. That's exactly the situation I feel with police in Boulder. I will not call the police if my life depended upon it. With Redfern as the chief of police. I don't trust

[61:11] anything at all with this police department, and I haven't trusted it for a long, long time over, probably 12 years ago, 13 that the deer was shot in my neighborhood. and I was thrown out of the courtroom for staring at the offender, who was let off, and later did. What do you say? Alcohol driving and talking badly about the da, in spite of the fact that the da was letting him off because he was a father. I'm completely disgusted with policing in Boulder and then on September 14th of 23 my stuff was stolen at the Municipal Building by Children's Department library employees, and I never got to meet or talk to or find out why the guy took my stuff. He said it was because his supervisor wanted it.

[62:22] and it was hers, and she would not corroborate that. I never found out what happened, and the da dropped the case. so I don't have any faith at all whatsoever in the police department, and I won't call them. and I'm paying heavily for the police and service in this community, and I'm working as hard as I can to lower the population so that we don't have so much demand for policing. But I don't trust this police department, and Redfern changed the record to from suspicious.

[63:00] A teenager called in, suspicious on Elijah Mc. Lane, and he changed it to assault on an officer, and then he had the audacity to tell me that he had to do that in order to collect evidence. If that's the case, that's a pretty sorry statement about the police department. Thank you, Lynn. Would any panel member like to respond? And we'll offer a comment. Our next member of the public is Zaid Atkinson. Welcome, Zaid, would you like to make a comment. Yes. Can everybody hear me? Yes. Okay, cool. Thanks for having me. Yeah. So this weekend, I began a protest. I'm protesting racism and ethnic discrimination against the Rtd, I've been protesting every day from basically sun up to sundown on Pearl Street and Broadway. So I just thought I'd put that out there that although, you know.

[64:19] I don't trust the police department at all. I don't trust police in general at all, ever even if they're helping me. I don't trust them. I will say that they did. They did help me this weekend a lot. There was an African American officer who basically corrected me in a state of racial trauma that I was experiencing. Uncontrolled basically an uncontrolled like psychosis due to racial trauma. And he recoached me so that I wasn't breaking any laws, and helped me engage myself in my 1st amendment right? Which made my protest solid

[65:08] and I have a petition going right now. We have 200 signatures so far. And they keep rising. And it would be nice if you could open up the chat so I can put the link there. Maybe y'all could help the cause you can read my experience and see if it aligns with you, and if it's something you can get behind, I'd really appreciate the support. Other than that. This is an extremely sensitive topic. The next thing that I'm gonna say, so it might not be best to do it in a recorded setting just for my safety. So I thought I'd put that out there. So if anybody else would like to give me a call in a you know, safe kind of non recorded situation just for my protection and for the privacy of everyone involved. I'd appreciate if one of you would take that lead.

[66:11] It's pretty much all I have. So I don't know if you want to open the chat so I can give you the link to my petition. I could really use some help promoting it. Other than that, I do have that sensitive information regarding policing in boulder. If you would like to access it. Thank you. Is there? Could you email it to the entire panel? Then everyone will be sure to receive that to our. I'm still trying to figure out like, what's the best way to approach this? Because it was extremely disturbing. You know, besides the obvious harassment that the homeless population experiences. This this isolated incident was was concerning enough

[67:02] for me. And then I had to think deeply about whether or not by me exposing the information. What that would mean? So I don't know. I don't know how to handle this. Honestly. Zaid, regarding the link to your protest and and if you want to send it to me, I can send it forward it to everyone, or you can. Okay, do all the. Can I send it to you via text? That'd be okay. Then I can give you all the links and everything. Yeah, do that now. I'm happy to forward that and I'm sure Sherry would like to talk to you at some point, but I'm also there. If you if we can be in a meeting or something altogether. Okay, cool. Yeah, I'm living down in Denver right now. So I don't know. Maybe we can talk in person.

[68:05] I think face to face would be good for this kind of a situation. So you let me know what's good for you. Sounds good. Yeah, and and thank you. Len. if you can connect the 2 of us, I would really appreciate that. So that Zayd and I have a way to speak to each other, one on one. Don't have. If he chooses to. Okay. Alright, thank you. And the 1 million please share that And so with this, let's go ahead and take of a little bio break. Hey! Victor! So next we have our closed session.

[69:04] I see that we had 10 min on the agenda, but it is 20. Is that correct? I just noticed the same thing over the break that we probably that'll probably take longer, or it could. So you know, I assign people to the rooms. I see you already. Did that. Do you want me to? Are you gonna boot us up to that. Yeah, I can. So do we need a do you guys need a vote to do this? Or is it just straight to the point. According to the Colorado sunshine law, we do have to vote to go into a closed session. Thank you. Selena. So we have a motion to, or a vote for us to go to a closed session to discuss sensitive matters about case reviews.

[70:02] So can I see. Go ahead, Abigail. I motion for us to go to a closed session if we need such a thing. Shit. Go to approve. Thank you, and for other members we will be back as our usual business within 20 min or less. Okay, so 20 min. See you in a few. We're now going to vote on cases to review the 1st case review that we have up for review is Sm serious misconduct, 0 0 5.

[71:10] And this is involving one officer due to needing some more information. We also talked about pausing on voting on this case till we get some more information. Cause. We just don't have enough information to proceed on this one. So are we okay with not voting on 0 0 5 and waiting till we have more information. Victor Victor, I would say, we raise a motion to postpone this to the next for next month, or until we get more further. So we raise a motion. The motion is seconded. Reckoned.

[72:02] Are you raising the motion? Chico. Yes. Okay, second. And then the vote. and then the rest will be roll call votes like for for the last few months. Have we heard from Lizzie. It looks like she's dropped off. Hmm! Awesome 0 cool, wrecked. She let me know that she was switching devices so it'll take her a few minutes to get in. Thanks for sharing that Solana. Okay. The next case that we have is SM. 0 0 6.

[73:09] I move to table until we have more information on this one as well. Second. And show of hands. Okay, that's majority. I think. Alan also raised his hand. The next case is mi, 2, 0 2, 4, 0 7, 8. There are 2 officers involved in that. and we'll do the roll call to see if we vote to approve

[74:11] so Luna. Yes. Abigail. No. Chico alan. Yes. Me Lin. Yes. Bill. Nope. Lizzie. Yes. Victor. No. The next case, mi. 2, 0, 2, 4, 0 7, 9. There is one officer involved.

[75:05] Luna. No. Abigail. No. Alan. No. Me Lin. Oh no! Bill. No. Chico. No. Lizzie. No. And Victor is a no. The next case, MI. 2, 0 2, 4, 0 8 0. There are 3 officers involved. Luna. No. Abigail. No. Alan. No. Me Lynn! Yes.

[76:00] Bill. No. Chico. No. And Lizzie. Yes. And Victor is a no. The next case in my 2 0 2 4 dot 0 8 1. There is one officer involved. I smell my dinner burning so someone's got to help me out here. But my vote is no. No. Nope. Oh! If we can remember the order. I'm also a no. No. I don't know. No. Alan. Balance, now. You know, so everyone's a no

[77:10] alright. Well, I'll jump in for Victor. Then the next one is oh, 8, 2 Yes. Abigail. Yes. Alan. Yes. The one. Yes. Chico. Yes. Lizzie. busy, are you there, Victor? We're on Oh, 8, 2. No. And Bill's a no, and, Lizzie, are you there?

[78:02] For? Oh, 8, 2. I'm a yes. Yeah, okay, okay. I'll turn it back to you, Victor. Great. Thank you. The next one, mi, 2, 0, 2, 4, 0 8, 3. There is one officer involved. Luna. Yes. Abigail Alan. Yes. Me Lin. Yes. Bill. No. Chico. No. Lizzie. Yes. And Victor is no. The next case, mi. 2, 0 2, 4 dot 0 8 4. There are 2 officers and unknown officers involved. Luna. No. Abigail.

[79:00] Yes. Alan. No. Melin. Yes. Bill. No. Chico. No. Lizzie. Yes. And Victor is no. The next case, MI. 2, 0 2, 4, dash 0 8, 5. This is in a complaint with the unknown officer, Luna. No. Abigail. No. Alan. No. Then. Nope. Bill. No. Chico. No. Lizzie. No. And Victor is a no sherry.

[80:03] I'd like to thank you all for your votes. I would actually like to just share that. I expect the Sm 0 0 6 case to be through chain of command before the next meeting. So the panels just decision to table that is going to x extend so would extend would extend the the that case. That's my information. Based on the voting. Which cases did we choose to accept? Selena.

[81:04] I honestly was a little behind on some of the voting. So I think. It is 0 7, 8 0 8 2. Let's see 0 8, 3. And then I think that's it. So 0 7, 8, 0. Who are the other ones? 0, 7, 8, 0, 8, 2, and 0 8, 3. Sherry, is your hand up again. Oh, I'm sorry! Okay. Lizzie. Yeah. Sorry for missing the 2. The 1st 2 case votes. Did we choose to table both of those? Oh, 5. And oh, 6. Yes.

[82:03] Okay. I thought we were just talking about tabling. O 5. But I must have misunderstood. Thanks. We did, but didn't. Ending, too. So then we voted on the motion. So. Is that what everyone intended to vote on like tabling? Oh, 6. Even though it doesn't, it's it's gonna be ready. I'm not trying to mess anything up procedurally. But was that everyone's intention. That was mine. That was mine. Yeah, I think the the motion was was for us to table these 2 cases. When we get all the information. when when they are thorough and complete. That's when we'll it'll come back to us.

[83:00] And so we have to assign these cases, and also know that we have 9 cases that we have pending review as well. So just keeping that in mind. And if we schedule these you know, responding to the emails from sherry about trying to find a date is important, and we have some panel members not here. So in the past we've sign people cases when they're not here as well. So it looks like the 1st one is 0 7, 8, or is someone wanting to volunteer for 0 7 8? See, Bill. I'll do it. Alan. Count me in Victor, too. And Chico.

[84:03] The next case is 0 8 2. Any volunteers for that case. Luna. It's my understanding, unless we start at different times, that because we leave in a month we can't or shouldn't, for administrative ease volunteer to review any more cases. Yes, I'm not raising my hand because I'm not interested. It looks like, Lizzie.

[85:00] Yeah, I'm just saying I can volunteer. Thanks. We can add Jason to one of these case reviews. So and then we just need one more person for 0 8, 2. I'll do it. You have me, Lynn. and then we have 0 8 3. Any volunteers we could assign one of these to AV as well.

[86:03] and then we just need 2 more. I'll jump. I'll jump into that one, too. Victor. Okay. I can volunteer as well. Was that Lizzie. Yes. any other pending, scheduling things around case reviews, sherry for this week or. I have I have a case review scheduled on Wednesday and Thursday, and then I am still waiting for people.

[87:00] At least one of who is not in this group to respond to attempts to schedule. Mi, 2, 0, 2, 4, 0 7, 1. But yeah, thank you. Victor. I've been having a hard time scheduling, and I'm hoping now that the holidays over are over, that people are attentive to your emails. Can you repeat the case? Number. 0 7, 1. Thank you. Thank you, Sherry, and if you check your email on Tuesday and Friday, you won't miss anything. So that's just a good cadence, you know, check it before the weekend and check it one time during the week. And then things won't pile up. I struggle to do the same thing. So I definitely appreciate everyone's commitment and engagement. You know, with this process that we signed up for

[88:05] otherwise than that. I think our meeting is adjourned. Unless there's anything else. Hope to see some of you tomorrow at the Tate Building. I'm gonna definitely drop in. So. Do you know what time you'll be there. Whenever the food gets there. No, I don't know. But I'm just gonna I'm just curious about it. So I'm definitely gonna drop in at some point. Yeah, and full disclosure. Apparently this is the first, st either the 1st time they're doing it or their 1st time they're doing it post Covid. So even the organizers don't really know what the the response they're expecting. So feel free for the students or people who do freelance and have work. If you do come, feel free to have some some work to do in case there is a very low flow of people. And if anybody else wanna join Alan and myself to talk about the elections

[89:03] process, please feel free, even if you leave might be interested. Thank you, Milan, for that reminder, and thank you everyone for being here tonight and just have a good rest of your night. Thanks, everybody! Bye. Bye. Bye, everyone.