March 11, 2024 — Police Oversight Panel Regular Meeting

Transcript

Captions from City of Boulder YouTube recording.

[0:08] Hello, everyone! Welcome to the March meeting of the Boulder police oversight panel! But we acknowledge the Arapaho Ute and Cheyenne tribes. The traditional custodians of the land on which the police over side panel and the boulder police department operate and pay our respects to their elders, past and present. and would also like to welcome the public and any press that's also attending as well and welcome to the panel. Members also want to thank everyone for being here and acknowledge you know anything this week that may have been challenging and just thank you for your your time. Members of the public. We use a Q&A feature during the meeting we will answer small questions in the Q. And a. But if you have a bigger question. please save that for the public. The public comment Section. You can also submit complaints

[1:06] directly to the panel or contact the panel outside of the meeting. Our web address is Boulder, Colorado, Gov. 4. Slash services, 4 slash police oversight. And our panel email is police oversight panel at Boulder, Colorado, GOV. And reminding the public and the panel that our meetings will be posted to the website if we could share the agenda. Please.

[2:05] alright. Thank you. So our first item on our agenda is the approval of the February meeting minutes. Is there a motion to approve motion to approve? Second. okay, thank you. Was there anything else on the minutes. Looks like we have a hand up. Victor. Yes, go ahead. yeah. I have a question about changes to the minutes plus the potential of changes to the minutes. There are several things that I don't think are quite accurate.

[3:00] and I'm not sure what the procedure for that is. So we would. What is the procedure for that? Would it have to be? Is that something you could? We can edit? Now, if you just submit those changes? Or is there multiple things that would take a longer conversation? I think it would take a longer conversation. Honestly, there's one that's quick that we can add right now is, and section 5 C. Where it says. Miss Friend asked if they would. Oh, no, wait. Sorry. 5. If I see Miss Fran shared that it would be nice to limit the answers to of the chief to

[4:00] to 5 min. I believe I said that if Lizzie, yeah. but the main part is the summary of the under committee updates to a community engagement. I think it's missing a lot of the conversation that we had. and I would like that to be in the minutes. if at all possible. I know we receive these minutes on Friday. So yeah, I apologize. I was not Life has been happening. And I was not able to read them before today. This afternoon I come in prepared, but I was not able to do it. On Friday.

[5:03] though, Sherry, I'm not sure what to do here. Do we just postpone this till the next meeting or Aaron. Oh, Mr. Am I unmuted now? Alright! Well, I am. Thank you. For calling on me. What I've seen other boards do is to have whatever the suggested change is submitted to Staff. Who can then re disperse it in your next month's minutes for the rest of the panel members to review and then vote on it at the next month. That sounds great. So we want. If you could just get those over to Selena, and then we can process that before the next meeting. Yeah, thank you. And if anybody else has changes that they see they would like, please contact me. I'm happy to consolidate everything.

[6:01] And then Erin oh, sorry, Melanie. and then Erin. So next month, then we would vote on the they would vote on the February and the March minutes. That's correct. Yes. and thank you, Erin, for that. Alright. Thank you. Just moving on to the next item. Which is a clarification. So before any additional time passes. I would like the opportunity to address the confusion from last month's meeting. No illegal conduct, or any type of violation occurred by Solida, Dila, Diaz, or Milan by large in upholding their duties as community engagement and communication community cochairs. I acknowledge the pain I cause, and that they are both that they both experience during the meeting and afterwards I apologize sincerely for implying that their actions were a violation. and I seek to make amends. I also wish to apologize to the bolder chapter of the Naacp for any impact that this may have had on them. The bolder chapter of the Double Acp is a valued organization which has been instrumental

[7:13] and creating this panel. There has also been conversations in review of State laws. Our ordinance by laws and consultation with the city's attorney's office, and internal conversations have taken place. They all reaffirmed that no violation or misconduct of any kind were found. I deeply hope that together, we can move forward respectfully and productively, with the understanding that through our different lenses and experiences we are all here working towards the common goal of keeping police accountable for all the communities we serve. And our next item is, we have new members. So

[8:02] there's a time for introductions. This is much needed long overdue raising our ranks so Each of you will have a couple minutes just to share what you would like. You know your experiences, or whatever you feel is appropriate. So. Bill Lunar Abigail, the floor is open to you. I can break the ice and go first. Hi! Y'all, I've met a few of you all doing training. My name is Abigail Frankie. I'm a second year law student at Cu Boulder. I'm getting my Jd. With the certificate and civil rights and racial justice and working for the Denver public defenders this summer. And I'm currently working for the Denver appellate public defenders. So this is work. That

[9:03] means a lot to me that I'm in the space of quite frequently. and I'm really excited to be working with all of you on something that I feel is just so important to the world. Yeah. I'll go ahead and go next. Hi, everybody, Bill de la Cruz. I've been in Boulder County for about 40 years, lived in Boulder for about 36 years, and raised my kids there, and served on the school board for about 6 years, and have been in and out of this conversation about policing and the justice system in Boulder and Boulder County for much of that time. and I was just excited to be pick, to be able to work with you all, to really dive deep into the elements of policing, and how they impact all of the communities that they represent. So I'm just really excited

[10:04] to be here with you all. everyone. My name is Luna. I prefer they've been pronounced, and I am a junior in my undergrad at Nairobi University. I study religion and environmental justice. I also work for the university as a work study under their office for mission culture and inclusive community. We do lots of events. And I also, am an officer for a restorative community chapter helping students support their conflict. And yeah, this work is really meaningful to me. I'm always interested in like. yeah, this is a huge national conversation. Around policing. And yeah, just excited to get my hands dirty. And

[11:03] yeah, I guess I've also worked with Zeid Atkinson directly doing some events in town. And I know that he's connected in this, too. So yeah, thanks for having me here. And I'm excited to work with you all. I'm really excited to have you all here, and I would also I hope you get to know the the group better, and we had some great candidates this year, and I'm really excited to have you on the panel, and Mario is not able to make it tonight, but she does hope to come to the next meeting where she can. You know, have an introduction with some of you. But I do want to read into the the record. A really boring message from her in welcoming our newest members to serve the police oversight panel. I appreciate that they have already met the training modules required by ordinance. 8, 6, 0 9,

[12:06] 2, dash 11, dash 14, a one and 3. I understand the final training required under 2 dash, 11, dash 14. A 2 will occur in April of 2,024, in accordance with 2 11 dash fourteenc. I formally excuse Bill de la Cruz, Abigail, Frankie, and Luna Rosal from receiving this training until the Boulder Police Department provides the April 2,024. Training each of our new panel members will be able to vote on panel business during this time. Period. Note, this does not extend to the ability to vote during a case review until completion of the 2 11 dash 14 a 2 training requirements. Thank you. She will have much better words to say when she is. When she gets to see you hopefully in person.

[13:06] It was also great to to meet you folks at our training on March second as well. So are there any other words that panel members want to say to our new members that hasn't been said. Welcome agreed. We're glad you guys are here. Welcome. Yeah, it's really nice to have you here now, Victor, before we move be too much farther. I'd like to go back to what you just addressed with your statement. and just clarify a question that came up.

[14:02] I think, during the last meeting or the meeting before. So whenever it's okay for me to do that. but now would be a good time. Okay, alright. The question came up s 2 in terms of the selection. Our selection on the panels as to whether or not. We represent certain organizations, and in my case and Milan we are both members of the N. Double A, CP. And but in terms of the Selection Committee for the panel we were selected. We do not represent the organizations. We do not. We were selected, just based on our individual experiences, qualifications. And and as it fell in line with that process

[15:00] I said, I would ask to get clarification and bring that back to this group, and I'm just following through on that. So that clarified hope. Yes, it does. Thank you. And we also discussed this during the the training as well. You know that we are individual community members who represent we do have connections, but we're here to represent ourselves. Exactly. Very well, thank you. And the next item, our agenda is the co-chair elections. and yes Co. Chair elections. And so Lena will be doing a poll through zoom. So we're going to hope that technology is our friend so that people can use that to vote

[16:02] before that, I would just like to read some of the the bylaws that include information about the co-chairs. And so it's a 2.1 officers. The panel will elect 2 Co. Chairs from among the panelists. Co. Chairs may be re elected to serve a total of 2 one year terms and co-chairs will be responsible for a Co. Development of agenda and leading each panel, meeting B communicating the needs of the panel to the Monitor and attending a closed monthly meeting between Co. Chairs and Monitor. See engaging with the community and assisting with outreach efforts. D ensuring the oversight. Panel's annual report is completed and published in a timely manner. and E helping to maintain panelists, participation and morale, as well as mediating conflict as needed between panelists.

[17:06] and the election of the co-chairs will take place annually, and it will be by secret ballots from each panelists. And that we will, the Monitor will announce the 2 candidates who will serve together as co-chairs has. II mean, one of the questions that I have is whether people had the opportunity in advance to review the candidate selections or the the candidate statements. I see a lot of shaking of heads. a nodding of heads, I should say.

[18:08] and if we are, if I don't know if anyone wants to have to hear the candidates give a moment or 2 to say something, or if they want to proceed with the vote. think there was request that we all say a little something. if I remember correctly. Okay. I don't know if everyone knows. Well. maybe they don't know who the candidates are. If they didn't read the email. I saw a lot of heads shaking. But how about you? How about we have each of the candidates? Just give a like 30 s to a minute pitch.

[19:12] Alright, I'll jump in. Hi, everybody I put in to be a Co. Chair because I'm really wanna be a part of this group. I think it's a really great opportunity. And I'm really excited not only about the work that we can do in collaboration with the police department. I'm really excited also about the community engagement piece, because I talked to a lot of people over the course of years, and I know that this is a conversation that people are looking forward to and want to engage in. and so I just want to be supportive of that. And and I've as a mediator, I resolve a lot of conflict and work through that. So I have a lot of skills in that piece and and I'm just really excited about this group. So

[20:02] I'm going to stop there and thank you, Bill. Solid. Would you like to go next? Sure. Yeah. So I am putting my name there. I think the year the past year have been a very interesting one. We have learned a lot on kind of the challenges of the panel, we we were able to work through what II think it was a challenging year. I was involved in in the development of the new ordinance and and I think II felt I felt it naturally to put my name there and and offer to to serve this panel and serve the community as a co-chair. I want to be able to build bridges and to build trust and re-engage with community members and community partners that

[21:04] are traditionally impacted by the work that we're doing. So. Yeah, just willing to serve. So that that's me. Thank you. Solidad and Victor. Thank you. I'm a founding member of this panel. I've been here from the beginning, and through all this sacrifice I I've seen a lot, and there's a lot of things I have learned. There's some things that I can share. just from the brief historical perspective of being on the panel and sing some of the hard stuff we had to do.

[22:04] My goal for this panel is that it's going to be strong for the next 5, 1015, 20 years. As my son grows up in this town, there will be something in place that wasn't there before. and that's that's very important to me. The legacy of this panel and making sure that we create a strong foundation for future panels. I've seen a lot of that work done. and this is my last chance to do something, as next year I'm out of here, and it's all gonna be on your shoulders and good luck with that. But while I'm here I still have some things to to share, and so I'm willing to sacrifice even more time for one more year, because I believe in this but it hasn't been serviced, it's been sacrificed. It's been very hard. It has been draining If there are new cochairs that step up I'll be. I'll be happy for that, too. But again, my heart is with the panel

[23:04] and the work, and making sure that this is something that will stand the test of time. Okay. thank you all. Selena. do Yomuda? okay, just give me one. Sec. Okay. I think you should be seeing now a poll on your screen. So please vote for 2 co-chairs. That's multiple choice. So you'll be able to just vote for 2. And this is only the the vote is only for you know, panel members. It actually says that hosts and panelists cannot vote

[24:00] what? Yeah, it's not letting me do anything when I click on it. That's really bad. Actually. okay, hold on. I did this earlier, and it worked. So see. Sherry, we might have to do this another way. I don't have a backup. hmm! Well, let me ask people who were on the panel last year, how do you do virtual polls anonymously. just sending you a direct message of their 2 choices. Oh, okay. Well, if if people want to to text me, then in the chat, oh, that's so much easier. Okay?

[25:02] And there we thought we were. Gonna be fancy you can select sherry, Don, and just send her direct message. Yes. so are we sending it to Sherry or Selina. Who are we sending it? Oh. I'm getting them right now. So alright.

[27:01] I think I have 8 people's responses. do you? You don't mind, do you, Sheri? I that you're you're a person who I was thinking I did not see your response from. Yeah, I was trying. I'm trying to select, and it's not letting me. It's not great. The with the with the poll that Zelena put in. Yeah. that apparently, is not working for some reason. So we were just having people.

[28:06] send me directly through the chat and and just the names that you're looking for. Okay? Oh, no problem. but we maintain the option of selecting all 3 right? Fortunately. No. okay. as wish. We'll take it

[29:09] alright. You should have it. okay. And I I'm not trying to drum up suspense.

[30:04] i'm trying to figure out, i'm, still, it looks like, I'm still missing. Oh, maybe not apologies. Everyone. whoop? Well, if you don't mind. Cause I'm sure, you don't enjoy watching me look at mice green

[31:00] Alright look at this and it's it's quite clear, even though the numbers aren't totally working out right now. But it is the the 2 Vic. The 2 people who are who have the most votes is pretty clear. Are people okay with me? Sharing that right now, moving on to the next agenda item, and then I can get you the final tabulations after I have don't feel on the spot. Yeah, sure. Okay. I see lots of people nodding. Our new co-chairs are Solidad and Victor. So. Q. And and I think it would be remiss to not thank Bill for coming out out of the gates strong and showing. You know, this strong interest, and he attended a community engagement and the co-chair meeting last week. So the the dedication is obviously there, and we look forward to working with you, Bill.

[32:01] I will be here to support our co-chairs and the rest of the panel. Thank you. And well, thanks everyone. super excited you working with Solidad and we'll jump back into this with the committee updates the first one is coming from the community engagement. and of course, with all the tabs. I lost my minutes, but I found them. Okay. So thank you for the vote of confidence. By the way, panelists, I'm super honored. So

[33:00] we'll go with the updates. So one of the first things that we discussed at our community engagement and communication committee meeting last week was exactly about that. The name of the committee. So it has been use sometimes, like Community Outreach Committee Communication Committee, and the committee would like to propose that we confirm that we establish the name of community Engagement and Communications Committee. For more for mom establishment of the name. So if if we wanna kind of maybe I don't know confirm that vote on that. I don't know how we do it.

[34:01] Oh, I am okay. I think we talked about voting asking panel members to vote on it. So if that's okay, Buddy. we do. Okay. So I think I think the proper thing will be that someone moves a motion to accept the proposed name. So moved. recorded. Okay, all in favor. Aye. someone. No. Okay. Unanimous. Thank you very much. The other conversation that we engage in was kind of asking ourselves a couple of questions. One is in terms of the engagement, and what will warrant any particular authorization? If

[35:01] and I think we. We are clear now that if 2 members of the panel are meeting with community members that doesn't constitute an open meeting, so I think that we are agreeing in agreement that we can keep doing what we were supposed supposed to be doing, which is engaging with community members no more than 2 panelists. and then we need just to define who who will be attending those meetings? We're gonna try to communicate as much as possible in advance. Who are we meeting with so that way? If anyone is interested, or have some feedback or anything with, they can reach out. But I guess the main goal is to be able to move forward with the meetings and have them happen and facilitate the work of the engagement committee rather than kind of, you know is is scheduling is a nightmare. So just just to make that

[36:03] clear, I think that the other conversation was around trust and basically trust within the Panel Building trust with the communities and also trust between the part that panel, the whole panel and the community engagement committee. So I think that is something that we can talk more and address at our retreat. Just, I guess, to lay some foundations to start building that trust that we we so badly need. And, Milan, please jump in if I'm missing something. My notes are confusing. Yeah, go ahead. You're muted. Milan. You're muted sorry about that. Raise my hand. And instead of unmute I think I just wanna clarify something about the 2 members of the panel meeting with community members or organizations, and and maybe call it instead of a meeting, calling it like a listening

[37:10] meeting where we were not talking about panel business ourselves. So we're not. We're not there to represent real. We're representing the panel. But we're there to listen and report back and then make decisions in this panel like with this panel. And with the engagement committee, I think it's different. We're also gonna have information, informational events or other events where we're gonna go out in numbers where it's gonna be announced, where we're gonna be more out there and and and sharing documentation and answering questions. And those will be open to the public and to all of us to participate. And so I just wanna make sure that there's no confusion about the meetings that we're having when it's to only 2 members going there. They're really meant to

[38:03] create a space for us to listen deeply to what community members need to share with us. Without we know that some of the community members that we wanna hear from may feel threatened. May feel uncomfortable. And may have interactions with police that they don't want to share publicly. For obvious reasons. And so we want to give a platform for that, but we also want to report on our findings. to all of you. Hmm, hmm. okay. I should have said that the Community Engagement Committee we met. and a present where Milan Bill. Madeline Sherry, Selena, myself.

[39:03] so that the meetings are open, for, of course, for everyone to attend, and conversation happens there. I mean, it's a little bit different than these meetings. They are open to. The public. People can watch and the meeting, but there, we don't have public comment at the end. It's just like a work group. And I will say, just for the sake of time the most important piece that was discussed is really about trust within the panel. What trust means, for you know, each of us, how do we build? Trust among ourselves among the community. And I think that there's there's a clear, clear understanding that we need to work on that and that part of that work that we have in front of us is really kind of engaging in a way that fosters an environment where we can trust each other, get to know each other and work collaboratively.

[40:01] and that product is going to be happening soon as soon as we are able to schedule our retreat, which is like a non-working. you know, kind of full funnel meeting. So I think that kind of encompass everything. So, Bill Marin Milan, if you want to add anything that I missed. I'm I'm good. I think you you summarized it. Well. yeah, I think those were the main points that I heard in the conversation. Yeah, I agree. Okay. Thank you. Everyone moving on to the Governance Committee updates governance committee. We are in the

[41:02] process. Well. from the last meeting that we had. We are a committee of basically one. And so we are hoping to recruit from our new members additional members to join them. One plus, I mean. Lynne said she would participate when possible. but she's already vice chair and and very active. So we pretty much decided that we would defer when we, our efforts to recruit additional members, would come from the pool of of new Panelist. And so That's what we're hoping to do. And hopefully, we can get volunteers for that tonight

[42:03] by the cause of this meeting, because we do have some open items that we need to really address and get working on, particularly with the ordinance. with the revisions to the Norden's and and the bylaws. So don't all jump in at once. Okay, the committee assignments are the next item we have after everyone's restraining themselves. Okay, great Luna is there somewhere? I can read like a scope of that committee, or I think yes, it's in the bylaws, and that's part of the work that needs to be continued because some of those sections are incomplete, but the be the best place. There is a definition in there.

[43:03] Thank you. And that can be found on the panel's website. It's on that note first page there. and our next update is the legacy committee the legacy committee. We met on the twenty-second we were just trying to look at what was submitted earlier on regarding data. on juvenile interactions and the Ppd. And what we resolved was that we needed to get more granular data or more information, or subsequent to that, I think Sherry has requested for more information, or or clarified our ask in greater detail, and I'll let us speak to it to the request after this. So that's our hope is that at the next meeting on the twenty-first we'll have gotten that data. Then we'll we'll start digging in.

[44:07] Investigate more. So sherry you wanna add more color to that. I received a response from Daniel Reinhardt, and he estimated that it would be. approximately 10 h of work to obtain the the data that we were we were requesting, and he is also out at out this week from work, so I hope to touch Base with him early next week, when he returns to the office to see if if there's ways to maybe reduce that that ask. That would be still give us the the information that we need. Thank you.

[45:02] Yeah. I was hoping to add just 1 point as well. We started a document that we wanted to share with the rest of the panel to start keeping track of ideas for topics that we wanna dig into we definitely want to make sure that those ideas aren't just coming from the legacy committee and are coming from the full panel. And so we wanna sort of start a process of maintaining a list, talking through it, talking through finer details in the legacy committee. But then always coming back to the panel to actually choose topics, prioritize things and sort of vet things with you all to finalize. So I can email out a link after the meeting. But that document is in the legacy committee folder on the sharepoint, and it's called Legacy Committee research topics. So please go in there anytime. Add things. Review what we have right now. We just have the idea we're working on now, and kind of the initial

[46:01] the start of a second idea. But we would love more input on that. So please do get in there. Add some stuff. Thanks, Liz Victor. I think that's unless there's any other members of our committee wishing to chime in. I think that that's essentially what we've been up to. Thank you. So we do have time stamps on our agenda. So we are trying to adhere to the time. and so our next thing is committee assignments. and I believe we have openings on at least 2 committees. Right of solidarity is now the Co. Chair we have opening on community engagement. I know Ab had talked about that before they're not. Here

[47:04] we also have an opening on the governance committee as a committee co-chair that's correct does that mean that Soidad cannot be Co. Chair of the Community Engagement Committee. Yeah, it's up to her. That's a lot of sacrifice. So she's now taken on 3 additional meetings on top of that. So yeah, I would like to hear what she thinks me, too. Milan, I'm happy to stay with you until we if anyone else have interest. Of course I will step. assign, and have a new member join you. But in the meantime, until we find someone, I can keep working with you

[48:12] and Milan. I know Ap said she wanted to join this committee as well, so I don't know if she knows the dates or times. But is there anyone who wants to join the Governance Committee. I was about to say Sherry and I talked about it. I'm a law student. I'm a bylaws girl. I'm here for governments. Yay, thank you for stepping up, Abigail. Thank you. Interested in the Community Engagement Piece committee. Thank you, Bill. I saw there's another committee in the bylaws. That's education and orientation. Is that not a committee we're using?

[49:03] No, that is why the Governor's committee is almost a high priority, because our bylaws are incomplete. And there's one there. Yes, okay. yeah, yeah. Okay. Our next item on the agenda is talking about panel expectations. There are a couple of topics under here. Did you want to start this one, Cherry? Oh, I thought this was yours. I can speak to it, too. Floor is yours.

[50:00] Sometimes, not the best at pep talks. But look, we need to show up to meetings on that are plans a lot of time and effort. Selena, Selena, and and sherry. Put a line of time and effort into our meetings. and when we order snacks, and no one shows up, or we have guest speakers, you know, come to our meetings, and no one shows up. It just has impacts. I know life happens, but we agree to hold certain expectations as members of the panel. So that's reading case reviews show back up, showing up on time, giving prior notice. If you're unable to attend a meeting. that's also about, you know, respectful dialogue between panel members and treating each other with respect, not interrupting people, letting someone finish their sentence and then letting someone else talk or also some of those you know expectations as well.

[51:07] Anything you would add to that, Sherri Victor. Oh, so sorry! Sherry, go ahead! No. I was I was, I was, gonna say, Victor, looking at our our by-laws. There are implications on attendance. So in terms of if you don't attend certain meetings it has an impact on whether somebody returns membership of the panel or not. Yes, there's actually a thing in the bylaws that says it's an automatic resignation, and then you're put up for vote for removal. So we haven't had to do that before. But please check the attendance. See the meetings that you missed, and make sure that if that applies to you that you reach out to the co-chairs, and you know we can have a conversation about that. I think that is also included in the new ordinance. so I think I mean the attendance and the way of excusing attendance. If you cannot make it isn't the ordinance

[52:14] so maybe we we need to take a look at that, because I don't think right now that is aligning with the bylaw. So just to make sure. I mean, I think the idea is we, you know, hopefully, will that panel members will, you know, be motivated and attend like I don't think anyone wants to be in a position where we're. you know, removing someone from the panel and only as the the last option. And do you solid out of anything else you'd like to say about the expectations, for for the panel now is codeshare

[53:01] not right now I think I need to process this whole thing. No. but I do think one of the things maybe worth mentioning is that in the new ordinance we define defined that. This meeting is super important. But actually. case reviews, which is what we kind of the core of our work are also important. So we really hope that when you sign up for reviewing cases, we have a quorum to be able to review a case. If we don't do. If we don't get 3 people reviewing a case we cannot review, and they has to be scheduled. and we are super understanding in general that that you know life happens and we were open, sharing, super flexible, and I had to reschedule ones. So yeah, it's open to that. But that is, I think, one of the most important things that we need to attend, and we need to commit to put the work in that work prior to. So you show up prepared?

[54:05] I think even more so for this meeting. So yeah. And everyone really prepares for those meetings. I, as I mentioned at the training. Sometimes you have to put a lot of hours, so as soon as you're assigned, take a look at your folder, plan your time. So when you, when we need to review a case. We're all well prepared, and we know what we're talking about. So we don't have to spend 5 h, and we can get it done in in a more effective way. I would also say that includes responding to the polls. There's been a couple of polls where I went to vote, and only 3 people had voted. So again, time and effort goes into making those polls. So please, that's just a way to for us to be more effective with unlimited time that we have. and I will add that add to that, I mean, thank you. Victor. You know, sends out the polls, and one of the things that we feel has been happening is it. It ends up either putting us at a scramble, and some of your other colleagues who are waiting to find out dates so that they can put them on their calendar and if we don't

[55:20] get an answer until you know, 2 weeks later, or something. Then we're often like feeling like we're a step behind with the actual events that we're trying to, that we're trying to schedule. So. Don't make Selena's life more stressful. She's great. he is great, he's great. And let me just say now that if there is ever a question and you haven't gotten an answer. Just text, me, please. I've had issues with my email, the government, the Boulder county email. And so Selena, and usually just sends it to my personal email. But if there's ever a hold up and it's on my end.

[56:04] please just text me, and I'll give you an answer immediately. Jason and Milan. I will say that there were times when the poll had an option of 2 dates. and I could do either. And so II did not vote in part because I didn't want to vote for one which caused somebody else trouble. so that was my thought process. I'm more than happy to vote. But I I'm and I can do either date. There's no point II feel like I don't wanna like put somebody else out by voting to for a date in that situation, maybe on the poll has no preference, and that's fine. I'll do a better job. Thank you. Jason. Elong. Yeah, I think, Jason, normally, you can take so like, tick the the dates that you can do, and you should be able to do both most of the time like we have that. It's not a radio button, but a checkbox. And that means that you have multiple choice.

[57:13] I think I mean, at least, that's my my experience. I'm just wondering, Selina, are there any Poles out right now that I might have missed? Not. Currently. I don't have any out at the moment, but I should be sending one out after this meeting. Regarding the retreat. But other than that, I don't think I have anything that's standing at the moment. Thank you. Thank you. So now is the time for our 5 min break, and we'll come back at 7 37. Thank you.

[58:14] Alright. Welcome back! Let me just get the agenda. Yes, sir. If people are I I'd almost forgot to to present this the the tabulations were for the the co-chairs. Poll and Victor received 9 votes. Solidad received 7, and Bill received 3, and if the math isn't mathing. It's because one person only voted for one person.

[59:10] I thank you that. So if the next item is. there is a city council meeting that's happening city Council retreat, and they've asked all board and panelists, all city boards to submit a list of their top 3 priorities and the top 3 items on their work plan. I did send out an email. oh, Bill and Lizzie did respond to that. So now we just wanted to make a space just to talk about. What do you think our top 3 priorities are? As City Council is asking for this information. we could just give them a bullet point list of 1, 2, 3, or we can give them like a huge detailed summary. They're okay with either version of that and we need to submit this feedback before March 20 s.

[60:21] There's also room for this report to have dissenting or minority opinions as well. So we're not just going to present one item. But if someone feels some way about something else. all that's going to be presented as well. So as I guess, as a conversation starter some of the top items on the work plan would be completing the bylaws.

[61:03] Some community issues would be lack of complaints from historically marginalized communities. What do other folks have or or think about your thoughts. In terms of our our top 3 for community issues or for our work plan. Milan. I think our 3 committees are our top 3 priorities governance and working on the bylaws and legacy with data analysis and getting the right data so that we can actually look at the numbers and the trends, and then community engagement as well, so that we can reach out to those communities historically marginalized and listen to them and understand why they do not submit complaints.

[62:03] So I feel like our 3 committees are really showing our 3 main priorities check. and sometimes with multiple priorities, we split our resources thin. So if you had to pick 1, 2, and 3, what would be number one? That's that's a I'm I'm the Co. Chair of the Engagement Committee. I feel really strongly about and engaging with our community. So that's that's sorry. I'm I'm very biased on that one. But I also recognize the really fundamental role of data. To me that is key. I don't. I would love to participate in that. But I don't think I have the understanding of how it works. But II really think that the results that we are gonna get from the analysis of data is really, really important. And the bylaws need to happen. So

[63:01] you know, that is built into the work that we do. So I would say engagement and data and legacy. Thank you. Other people. Chico. III wouldn't agree disagree, or I would agree more with what Milan has said. I think the 3 committees what we are working on, or what we're trying to work on our lines with, what we should present in my view so, and in terms of prioritizing, I think the greatest impact would be reengaging or revitalizing our community engagement approaches. That's the most important thing, because everything will flow through that.

[64:04] Thank you. Chico Jason, I see your hand. Yeah, III guess I was third, that because if the community doesn't believe in what we're doing. We're not gonna be able to do anything. So that's where I think we should start. Thank you. And Jason. So that was our community issue? Is there one that you would suggest for like a work plan for what the panel is? Or would that be the same thing. the community issue and the work plan for the panel would both be working on community engagement. You know. II still think that a lot of people don't know that we exist at all. and I think that some people that know that we exist don't trust us. So I think those 2 things are are more important than anything else, getting people to know who we are and getting people to trust us. I don't know if we'll ever get them to trust us. I guess what I would say is getting people to be. I don't know. Willing to trust us.

[65:05] Thank you, Jason. Lizzie. yeah, thanks. I was just gonna reiterate. II agree with everything that's been brought up and also focus on kind of the top priority for each committee. But also wondering if we could include something that I think you had in your list, director already. But just to recognize it here. Just kind of recognizing the core work of the panel as well in reviewing pieces and trying to get through some of that kind of Mac we have, and really just get like fully back up to speed. Since the work stoppage. I think we could could reflect that in our work plan as well. Also the points about kind of community trust and making sure people are submitting complaints and feeling, you know. comfortable coming forward. I think if we're able to move quickly and get through cases, you know. So people feel like there's They might see, you know, quicker turn around that could help as well with with building that trust.

[66:11] Thank you, Lizzie? Bill. yeah, I think I would just agree with everybody. The community engagement piece, I think, is really key to Jason's point. It's not as much as if they'll trust us. But how? We can get people to open up and at least start to share their stories. terms of what they're experiencing, and then I think, the in terms of a work. The bylaws getting those cleaned up, I think, is also a really important piece. And I wonder where does the chief of police search fall into? This? Is that a community issue or work plan issue? I think that's both because it's on our agenda to meet with the chief of police. And also it's something that's been brought up by the community as well.

[67:01] Okay, great. Thank you. Thank you. So you are. I got that for 10 min. Oh. hello, Luna! I'll just echo Bill. I feel like community engagement is really important, and I'm also like we need to have a foundation of bylaws, and like how we do that, and how our committees operate. So just by, like logistically, it seems like our bylaws are probably really high priority. I hear you saying limited sometimes it's hard to move forward. If you don't have, you know, some things in place. Yeah. other folks. We still have a few minutes on this topic. If you haven't shared. you could also send by email to Solidad. I saw you on mute.

[68:01] Yeah, II will agree. I think, that Milan was right on but also. if we have to truly prioritize, I think community engagement with the bylaws. I also agree. That will be my number, too, because we already have. And I mean, it's strictly speaking. they're not great. They're not updated, but we have some. So we have something to work for. But I think community engagement is a big piece, as I mean, we have all identified that as one of the most important pieces. So we should. We should really focus on that one. and also sorry, I think, that if we are presenting this as our priority, I think that more resources should be. should be. It should be easier to ask for most more resources for community out outreach and engagement if we need them.

[69:02] Thank you, Abigail or Madeline. I was going to say that I think the 3 committees mirror, probably where 3 responses are. And then Milan took the words right out of my mouth. So I'd like to echo that I think getting people engaged with the panel is probably the most important thing along with, even though I'm a virus currently. Yep. thank you, Madeline. Do you want to add anything right now? I just am wanting to move forward as quickly as possible with the

[70:02] the governance with the particularly the by laws as well as the just, just to the ordinance, just to bring everything up, too. up to par up to current status. And so yeah. so Abigail and I will jump on that right away. An anybody else that wants to join us, Anna. Of course. Me, Lynn. Anybody else? yes. that's it. Thank you. Thank you. So we will summarize this, and we'll be on the agenda item on our next co-chair meeting, which takes place a week after this meeting. And we'll summarize and get this out and then make sure everyone sees it and approves before we submit it before the 20 s. Is that sound? Okay?

[71:00] Yes. sherry. This is not directly related. But I that was just amazing that people were effectively very much in agreement. So that that bodes well, I just wanted to say, because you talked about the you mentioned the next co-chair meeting. I would just like everyone to know that the you know, the when we schedule meetings the you know, it's made up of individuals. So if, especially if some of these committees are, you know, getting new members. you're always able to, you know. Discuss amongst yourself like and figure out a time that that works for the people who are involved. So we're happy to, you know. Change those dates and change the calendars because we want, you know, we want as much attendance as possible. So, having these meetings at times that people are able to attend without it being a crunch in their life is is gonna help facilitate that.

[72:06] So you're saying with some new committee members, we may have some new meeting times as well. So just to be aware of that. and to check your emails on the topic of scheduling and logistics. Our next agenda item is 2, 3 items the first one on that is our of police meeting. Selena, I think you have the most up to date information from both polls and from speaking with Bethany. Yeah, So I believe I sent out a poll for 2 dates. I think it was the eighteenth, and then the twentieth. So I have just a

[73:04] bit of a result here. It seems like we're leaning more towards the eighteenth. However. it seems like one of our co-chairs are, gonna be not be able to attend, and then I know of another panelist as well that we'll be able to attend And then one of the other dates as I was trying to schedule this with Bethany, it seems like Chief Redfern was gonna be out so opening up the floor to see if maybe we want to just go with the eighteenth, or if we want to reschedule for sometime in April sherry and I were thinking, just so we can keep it close to date. was the I'm sorry the first and the third of April. I always can resend out a different poll to see if maybe we want to do that. But again opening up the floor for

[74:04] to maybe think of a different date. So the eighteenth is next. Oh, go ahead. Selena was, did you say? April first and third? I think the third is that city Council retreat. Yeah. Cancel retreat on the third, so he won't be able to make it on the third. So it looks like maybe the eighteenth or the first of April. So apologies. I don't mean to throw you under the bus, Victor. Am I the 18 person? I can. Okay. Sorry. sorry, Victor under the bus. and so I know if you were to meet next week, we haven't submitted

[75:03] questions or ask for feedback of what folks wanted to ask the chief. and maybe if it was moved to April we would have more time to. you know, gather questions and thoughts for that. It's just one idea. I'll I'll second. We move it to the next month. That gives an opportunity for the new panelists to be get on board and to be fully engaged. And will this be a meeting in the evening or during the day? I'm sorry, Milan, I didn't see your head. Does anyone have a timeframe for the meeting. Normally it would be from 6 to 8 pm.

[76:03] That's on on a normal what we've had previously. But again. I'm not sure for wanting to also change the time. We're considering of moving the time. So the third works for me, too. The third is that there's a city council retreat where? He's going to be attending also. So so what are the what's the date we're talking about? Then? D, first. Okay, that works. Too. Sorry, Milan. I just jumped in front of you. No, that was exactly my question. So thank you, Bill. Yes. and the timing. I'm sorry timing is in the evening. Right? 6,

[77:00] 606 to 8. Sorry. We also discussed. You know the format of this meeting. do we, you know, have structured times. We have some time for just stuff that's not submitted. We have time for stuff that is submitted. How long is each response going to be? So that's also something that we can discuss prior to that later date. If we go with that date. can I just add something real quick? is there a preference to maybe having it at the headquarters, the older police headquarters? Or did we want it at Penfield, where the training was just cause? I can figure out the logistics with the chief. and as admin I don't know if we wanted to take that off screen, but I thought maybe I'd throw that in there as well.

[78:02] It's I don't know if other folks feel differently. I don't have a preference. I think whatever is easier to schedule logistically is fine with me. Milan. II personally prefer pencil building. I feel like it's more neutral environment. save my person. Sorry II agree. Milan Bill. I don't have a preference, I think if it works for more people on his team to be there, then we could have it in his space. just very supportive of the in person for this particular meeting versus zoom.

[79:00] Thank you, Bill, and Jason. To voice for the opposite direction. I'm willing to go into the belly of the beast and see what they got. And III guess what I'm saying is that if if they think that there is something that we should be scared of there. I want to know about it. I don't think that's the case. But II certainly don't have a problem with. Thank you and Jason. I also agree with him as well. It would be a positive experience for the new members to walk inside the police station, which maybe they've never done before. and just see what that's like without actually taking the full tour. There are things that we have power and influence there. It's not just them influenza us, but we can also influence them. So not every meeting has to be there. But I think with this new panel members I would like to meet at the headquarters. Emilana. See your hand?

[80:06] I'm gonna I'm gonna still disagree with that. But II just wanna make sure that you know going to police. Or maybe some members of the panel might be asking a lot. And I just wanna be aware of that. And I also feel that meeting in a more neutral space is always better. also. you know, II don't necessarily want to have a lot of people from the police department in the room when we're talking to the Chief and asking questions. But I'm also very curious to hear about Madeleine's opinion. Thank you. I'm going back to when we started this when it was a task force before it became the implementation team and then the panel back to the initial stages. We had some

[81:05] serious issues. That we had to work through. That came up as a result of of the police involvement and and the imbalance there. And we worked through that we actually had to bring our our a facilitator back in to help us work through some things. And so I'm reminded of those things, and I don't would not like, for I'd like to prevent that. So if we can have neutral territory neutral ground, then, yeah, I would say. to go to a neutral place would be preventive. So, yeah, I think the Pinfield Tape

[82:01] building would a neutral place. and perhaps for future meetings we can consider maybe having the police department go there. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Jason. I see I see your hand. Thank you, Richard. II don't want to say more. And, Madeline, your words are. I'm listening to them deeply right now. What I do want to say is this, II did go on a ride along. And I encourage everybody to go on, ride along as soon as possible. and if there's anybody out there that thinks that me being with them when they go on, ride along, would be safer or better for them. I am happy to do with you. Okay. I suspect there's other people would say the same, but the ride along is very important and thank you, Madeline, for your point. I didn't know that.

[83:02] Oh, Bill and Chico. yeah, I mean. I'm gonna do whatever supports the committee. I'm just gonna say that when we talk about a neutral place. typically it's not our house or their house. It's someplace that neither one of us really own, so to speak. And so so if we're gonna find a neutral place, I think it has to be somewhere. That's not, or the police department, because that's really what neutral is is where it's not our place or their place. It's someplace that isn't connected to either one. And I'll also say there's ways to facilitate a conversation like this. So that matter who's in the room. the needs that we have as a panel. and the questions that we want to bring forward from community can also be answered. And I also appreciate the fact that

[84:00] people have different experiences within the police department, and I wanna honor that as well. And so so for me, Victor, I've been in the Boulder police department never as a always as a guest. So so I'm not afraid to go in there. I've worked with the Denver police. I've been their police department, and so it's not about any type of not having that experience. so I just think that we need to think about more, regardless of where we are. How is the meeting going to be facilitated? And and how are the conversations and questions going to be asked in timeframe for answers? And and what is our outcome in this particular meeting? I think those are to me the structure and the process, or what's really important, regardless of where we have it. We need to really think about that. To me, that's more important. Because will it actually lead us to the outcomes that we're looking for? And I was, gonna say, this is something that Milan

[85:03] we could talk about in the community engagement piece is also, you know, a community engagement process that we're talking about. So those are my initial thoughts here. Thank you. We. We do have case reviews and the monitors report. So we're just gonna do 2 more responses before we move on, Chico. Just a quick one. I'll I'll say we still meet at the City Council offices. Nothing wrong with that. There'll be enough opportunity to to go to the visit with the police. Ride alongs and the use of force training. Those are good opportunities to mingle with them. Thank you, Chico Sullivan. Yeah. So I'll just wanna for for the sake of time, I think. one of the reasons that we we have to choose either, or is because we, this meetings are are public. So we should have

[86:04] them live streamed. So the pen take building offers that, you know facility for us to use. And and it's, you know, all set up. We just go in there and meet so that's 1 one thing to Confi consider, and II will say for this time I would really like us to be to consider that for for for those of us who might be easier either, or we should listen to the ones that are saying, I don't feel comfortable, and we should support that in in this situation. So I will invite everyone to kind of next meeting with the with the 2 police. Let's have it in the same place. We can keep talking. If that changes we can, we can make a different decision next time we meet every 3 months.

[87:00] So there's there's more opportunities for that. I think so. III would like to propose that we land on meeting in the city building for for the next time. Is it 3 weeks away? And then we can figure it out. Thank you. Solid Ed. The next scheduling thing is April, bt, April, Bt training. which is a use of force. The escalation depends of task tactics and crisis intervention. Yeah. The so that training is mandatory for the new panelists. Really encouraged for other panelists to attend also. So the dates that were offered for that were by the Pd. Where April, Twentieth and 20 seventh.

[88:03] which is Saturday. it and they estimated that it would be approximately 3 h long. Jason. Thank you, Victor. Ii really want to go to this. But I cannot be there. On the twenty-seventh. I can be there on the twentieth. Abigail. I also cannot be there on the twenty-seventh. But I am free. The twentieth. Okay. Bill. I'm out of town that whole weekend of the twentieth, but I can be there on the 20 seventh. And Luna. I also cannot be there on the twentieth. I can be there on the 20 seventh. Okay, split. Just like we have some behind the scenes. Coordination to do. Or

[89:01] yeah, so any way, we could do it both weekends. I can ask Yeah, I'll I will definitely check in with Vpd tomorrow about that and let me. Just I sorry. What about? I don't know. I don't even know if it's on the table or not to have a Sunday training. But the well, you know what those were the 2 days that they gave me. So I will. I will come back to them and see if they possibly could do both and if not, to give me some extra dates. Okay, just being aware of the time I saw that the next one is the retreat. I know the retreat was postponed. Are there any Updates on that, or is it still going to be

[90:04] decided behind the scenes? I think we're gonna have. Selena is gonna send a poll to decide on the date for that to everyone, so as soon as you can answer it, that would be very helpful. And then So when I and the committee will probably work on a venue for all of us, and we'll figure out a program that will propose to you. I believe that's what it's how it's gonna work for. unless you have any other idea of how it should be. But we we welcome. We do welcome any ideas on what activities you would want to see. We have a 3 h slot. And so if there's anything that you would like to discuss practice, that's not panel business. but to

[91:05] please let us know. You can send me a an an email. I'll bring it to the next meeting. You can come to the next meeting for that. But yes, please let us know we. This is my first time organizing this retreat, so need your help. If you have any ideas on what to do and what kind of activities you'd like to see. Thank you. So that you have anything else to add to that? No. the next item is the independent monitors report. okay, I'm gonna be presenting the March 2024 Boulder police oversight panel meetings, independent police monitors report.

[92:01] and we, the the full case files that we reviewed are completed in February 2024 was 0. We have one case. File pending the boulder police department disposition, and that's mi, 2, 0 2, 3, 0 1 1. There currently are 6 cases awaiting panel review. And and those are MI. 2, 0, 2, 3, dash 0, 3, 4, MI. 2, 0, 2, 3, dash 0, 3, 5, SM. 2, 0 2, 4, dash 0 0 1, and then am I. 2,000 24, dash 0 0 1, 2 and 3. There was a single case completed. In February of 2024 by Bpd.

[93:06] And the allegation for Officer one was a rule, one violation, compliance with values, rules, and general orders. General order 2 0 3. Investigative responsibility and case assignment did not conduct an adequate investigation. I recommended a sustained finding with a one year letter of reprimand. The department agreed, and they sustained the allegation with a one year letter of reprimand. I would also just like to note that this was an instance where the Police department actually took the Independent Police Monitor's recommendation for a higher penalty than what had been recommended by members of the chain of command. For Officer 2 is rule, one, compliance with values, rules and general orders. Customer service value did not respond to an email sent by a complainant.

[94:05] and I recommended that officer 2. This allegation is sustained with verbal counselling, and the department also determined it was a sustained allegation with verbal counseling. Officer 3 had 2 allegations. First was rule, one compliance with values, rules, and general orders. Customer service value told the complainant that he could not take any action. I recommended this allegation be not sustained, and the department also determined, but to not sustain the allegation. and the second was rule. One compliance with values, rules and general orders. GO. 2, 4, 0, 2 B in car cameras, body worn cameras and personal recording devices did not activate his body worn camera during the phone call with the complainant. and I recommended a sustained verbal counselling, and the department also determined that it was a sustained allegation with verbal counselling

[95:08] regarding the February 2024, monthly case statistics. I classified 10 complaints. 7 were misconduct compliance 0 for serious misconduct 2 community inquiries. and one case was referred to the conflict facilitation process. I observed 2 interviews. I did not respond to any critical incident scene. I deemed one investigation, thorough and complete. and Bpd closed one case. the open docket, the open docket, as of march eleventh today is 20 cases. 17 of those cases are classified, and there are 3 that are pending my classification

[96:08] based on a request. Last month I'm identify more specifics regarding the open cases from 2023. There are 6 of those cases. and the oldest of the case, which was registered in March of 2023. It is pending the the chiefs final determination, and I was told to expect that case very soon. Am I 2023. Dash 0 18. I deemed it throw on complete in this month. So it is also pending the chiefs. Determination. Mi. 2, 0 2, 3, dash 0 2, 8. The interviews on that case aren't complete. I am waiting to receive the case so that I can review it for throwing completeness. Am I? 2, 0, 2, 3, 0 3, 3, and that officer was on extended leave, and he

[97:07] he's expected to return this month. And when once he returns we can proceed with an interview. Mi, 2, 0, 2, 3, desk 0, 3, 4. We completed the interviews that are expected to occur. In that case. I still need to receive it from Bpd. To review for thorough and completeness. And MI. 2, 0, 2, 3D. 0, 3, 5. I reviewed that case, and I have requested that the police department conduct additional investigative steps. I also wanted to make sure that the panel was aware of the the status of the fatal officer involved shooting from December of last year. so late last week, the district attorney determined that there were no charges appropriate for the fatal involved shooting, and I wanted to make sure that people were aware that the district attorney is going to be

[98:09] conducting a virtual town Hall later this week. which will include video clips from the from the shooting and that can be your first opportunity to learn more information about that. The boulder police department. Actually, this is, I have updated information. They did receive the the digital file from the Boulder County Investigative team. And they are working currently to upload all of those voluminous files to evidence.com. And as I learn more about developments and timelines for the panel's review, I will definitely share that with you. And regarding some of the community engagement that I have been working on, I have, in the month of February, attended a multiple events hosted by the University of Colorado Center for African American Studies and the Law School.

[99:08] and I met with a representative for the Center for people with disabilities on a project that we're working on, and I also met with Boulder County sheriff to speak with him, and then had an opportunity to tour the Boulder County jail. And that is my report. Am I still sharing my screen? Okay. thank you. And our next item is the case, review votes

[100:05] victim. since this is the first time with a new panelist, can. I know that this is in the final, so can I move to have a executive session, so we can talk a little bit more about the cases, and then we can come back to the public meeting second. I don't know if the breakout room function is enabled in the webinar. So you may not be able to do that. Is that correct? Yeah. Yeah. So I'm in the works right now of upgrading the zoom license that I have right now. To be able to do webinar breakout rooms so should be coming hopefully next panel meeting.

[101:01] But I am working on that. And it's taking quite some time. So I apologize. Okay. okay. I need. I need to ask for 1 s, please. So I'm gonna turn off my camera and my mic and sherry. Can I give you a quick call? It's kind of important. sure, I guess I'll be turning off my camera, please. Just bill 1 1 s, and it's regarding one of the cases. So that's why. Oh, we are waiting for that. What was the outcome or the meeting? Are we going to be at Penfield or or police department.

[102:03] Madeline? I think we said Penfield tape. Okay, II stepped away for a minute. That thanks. Sorry we're back big typo on one of the pages.

[103:21] What happened? This is normally led by the Co. Chairs. So the first case is M. 12024004, with officer one. The allegation is rule 4. Respect for others.

[104:05] and who wishes to vote to review MI. 2, 0 2, 4, 0 0 4, all 4. So we're asking to vote to accept the case. Correct. Yes. I was just wanting to make sure that new panelists understand the process. Since we haven't seen that. But they haven't seen that before. Luna, your question. Yeah, I have some clarifying questions. If that's okay. So we vote if we're gonna accept the case and then do people volunteer to take the case or okay. Oh, and I remember reading that if it doesn't happen, then

[105:01] members are assigned. That is correct. So just to clarify. Now we vote. If the majority said, yes, we'll review the case. Then we're site assigned people, not everyone, not all the cases you vote. Yes, for. You have to take on yourself. Okay? And I would also just like to say that right now we're in sort of the the lull of case reviews. Because the the panel had been on a moratorium for several months, and just the natural progression of cases has put us in a situation where I don't anticipate the panel actually conducting a case review for probably another 2 or 3 months. So votes for? Yes, on M. 1, 2, 0, 2, 4, 0 0 4

[106:04] by showing your hands. and there was 4 votes for? No. Are you asking a question, Lizzie, or just raising your hand? Just raising my hand? Sorry, guys, I'll be back on camera momentarily. and that's 4 votes for. No. so that means not everyone voted. There's only 8 votes. That was fine, Victor. Those 5 got Lizzie had her hand up. You be Jason Pedica? Did Marilyn vote?

[107:02] No, I did not. I'm trying to get my camera back on. But yes, no, or Epstein. I will vote. abstain. Thank you. The next case is MI. 2024005. The complaints are rule 4. Violation, respect for others. A rule. 6. Violation use of force, and another rule. 6. Violation use of force. Votes for. Yes, to review this case. Yes. 6. Saying yes.

[108:00] and votes for no few votes for no. The next case is MI. 2, 0 2, 4, dash 0 0 6. There is a rule for violation, respect for others, and a rule, 4. Violation, respect for others votes to review this case. I see 2 hands votes to not review this case stubborn go to? No.

[109:07] The next case is MI, 2, 0 2, 4, 0 0 7, there is one rule for violation, respect for others votes to review this case. votes. Is that a. Yes. Madeline, yes. Votes not to review this case villain did you vote or abstain, abstain? Okay? The next case is MI. 2, 0 2, 4 dot 0 0 8.

[110:03] There is a rule, one. Violation. compliance with values, rules, and general orders. In a rule, 4. Violation, respect for others against officer 2. There is a rule, one. Violation, compliance with rules, values and general orders. and a rule for violation. respect for others. Votes to review this case. It's like, that's 9 votes to not review this case. The next case is mi, 2, 0 2, 4, 0 0 9. There is a rule, one. Violation, compliance with rules, values, and general orders rule one. An additional rule, one violation.

[111:02] a rule, 4. Violation, respect for others, and a rule, 4. Violation respect for others. also a rule, one violation as well votes to review this case. That's 4, and votes not to review this case. and that is 4 who did not vote for that one I was hoping to abstain. Okay. so share. We have 4, yes, 4, no, and one abstain. for?

[112:01] Can we talk about it in an executive session after this meeting? We can't do that in Zoom based on the webinar model. We'd have to set up a whole new meeting to do that. So it has to be done at 8 30. So yeah, and we are already over time. Yep. I'm having an issue with this, then, okay, Sherry, we have 4 votes. Yes, 4 votes. No, and one abstain. So where does that leave you? Looking at the bio bylaws. Okay, Victor, would you repeat the the details of the case? It's MI. 2, 0 2 4 dot 0 0 9. And there are 5 complaints. 3 of those are compliance with rules, values, and general orders, and the other 2 are respect for others.

[113:04] Okay. was actually another rule, one violation. So there's 6 violations in total. The language in the bylaws is an affirmative vote of the majority of the panelists present at the meeting will result in a complaint being assigned for review by at least 3 panelists. So my take on that is, if it is for yes, for no, that that is not a case that the panel is choosing to select for review. Okay? And I, I'd like to object to that. But I guess if that's the rule. That's the rule. But I just wanna express that I disagree with this. could we? If if folks are wanting an executive session. can we end the meeting end the recording, and then just enter an executive session. We don't need the breakout function if we're not coming back to the meeting.

[114:09] Yeah, we're already over time, though, and that would be an additional unknown amount of time as well. We're talking about case reviews, though. This is the main reason why we're here. Propose, then, that we can can we decide that tie goes for this, that tie goes to the review? I would like to honor the folks who would like to review, considering that we have a good number of folks who do. Jason, I see your hand. Huh! I propose that we re-review this case next time, when we might be able to have the time to discuss it. If we can't discuss it now. the other, by laws, say we need a majority which we don't have. So

[115:04] could we table this case until the next meeting? Sherry? I mean, I'm not an expert on parliamentary procedure and things like that. But I I mean. I might suggest taking the vote again and seeing if anyone has changed their vote or has decided not to that, they not abstaining anymore. Okay, so 1, one last vote for MI. 2, 0 2, 4, 0 1 0, which includes 6 violations. 3 of those are respect for others, and 3 of those are compliance with the rules, values, and general orders. Those who vote to review this, please. Sorry, Victor, you said, a different number. Which one are we talking about? Oh, oh, 9. Or I'm sorry. Mi, 2, 0, 2, 4, 0 0 9. Okay.

[116:01] okay. And there's 6 violations. Sterling is your hand? Did you say there were 6 violations, Victor? Yes. obviously, I don't really have a vote here. I just wanna say that I think with a vote already being had. there could be a cause for depending on how on the panel. Sees this case. If it doesn't seem it caused for somebody to, you know, complain about it. Based on the bylaws, you know. If you guys were to say that the officers. Did something wrong, and I just don't want that to come back to the Neglig on the panel. Just a thought. Thank you, Sterling Jason. I abstained on this one, and I'm willing to go with the 4

[117:02] and change my vote since I had an abstention. So votes to review MI. 2 0 2 4 s. 0 0 9 votes for yes. and votes for no on the alright. The next case is MI. 2, 0 2, 4, 0 1 0. There is a 3 rule of our 3 rule. 4. Violations for officer run respect for others. and 2 rule, one. Violations, compliance with rules, value and general orders. and for Officer 2

[118:04] there are also 5 violations. 3 of those are respect for others, and 2 of those are compliance of values, rules and general orders. votes to review. Mi, 2, 0 2, 4, 0 1, 0 1, 2, 3, 4, go, start man and votes to not review it it will be. And how many was someone counting the votes not to review? That was I counted 5. But you want to recount.

[119:00] Hmm! Do we need a recount, or do you catch that sherry? II had counted 5. But if someone objects to that cumin alright the next item on our agenda we're just gonna skip to the public comments. Do we have one member of the public present who would like to comment? Yep. So, Lynn, we will give you 2 min, and if anyone from the panel wishes to respond, there's time for that.

[120:03] Yeah, I didn't have the unmute sign up yet. Yeah. a lot of this. I really don't. Just if you could be empathetic to a member of the public. all of these police meetings that I'm going to. I feel like, and I cover like 5 or 6 city boards, some conflict with each other. I'm missing the Transportation Advisory Board right now, but I feel like with this police, oversight, situation. All I'm hearing, every meeting that I go to, and I don't go to. All of them is logistics, and by laws and engagement, and I don't feel engaged at all, and especially with 2 min I mean city councils. Bo. Other than Boulder. Get 3 min, 4 min, 5 min, and all the boards. I go to get 3 min, and you've got 2 min, and you have one person speaking. It just seems so uncaring about really having the public input.

[121:05] When I have 2 min to speak and II have my own situation. That happened. I was concerned about a Zayd Atkinson, Samuel Lawrence, you know. I wanna hear the dimensions of these issues. I don't wanna hear that some woman's been shot. I want to hear why and I want to resolve these things, and I want restorative justice, and I don't see it happening now, if I'm missing something, or I'm just too stupid, and I don't know. I'm not watching closely enough. I don't know what these numbers mean. I don't know what these cases are behind. II just hear that their place that aren't respecting, and in my situation. like Hamilton, I was riding my bike home after waiting 3 h for the police to come, when my gear was taken from the Municipal Building, and he yelled at me to get off my bike when I'm trying to get home it to plug in my phone because I don't want to wait another 3 h. If that's not respect, I don't know what not respect is, and

[122:11] so maybe you can see why I don't have much faith in the police department, and I want you. But I'm not getting it from these police meetings. But maybe. And if you tell me. Just skip going to them. I I'll I'll I'll not. I'll not come because I don't think it's doing anything for me. I don't ever feel like anyone responds back. I'm I feel like I'm talking into an echo chamber. That's all I wanted to say. Thank you. And then, does anyone on the panel like to respond to say, I hear you, Lynn.

[123:01] we're trying to get better. That's what we're doing, and logistics is part of our work. Unfortunately, believe me, I would rather not do that. But now. hopefully. in the near future, you'll feel like we are engaging more with the community. thank you for being here consistently appreciate that. Yeah, I wanted to mention Lynn as well. We've heard you about the the time period for public comment definitely appreciate that feedback, and that is something that's in our bylaws, and we are slated, as you've heard, to, to re examine those and possibly make some changes. So we'll definitely consider your feedback about the public comment period when we do that work. Thanks. Hmm.

[124:00] well, thank you. Everyone for attending this meeting. As always. Appreciate your time. And just have a good rest of your meeting. Thank you. Thank you. Good night. Thanks.