February 14, 2024 — Police Oversight Panel Regular Meeting

Transcript

Captions from City of Boulder YouTube recording.

[0:03] Tribes, traditional custodians on the land on which the police oversight panel? Can the motor police department operate and pay our respects to the others, past and present. We also like to welcome members of the public and the press to our meeting. This meeting is our first in person meeting for 2024. So if you are watching the recording we'll try to do this every other month, I believe. So join us down here at capability. Thank you everyone for the panel for being here. Those online welcome as well. And also, we have the QA. Function. So members of the public will answer some questions, but if you have bigger things, please save those in the end.

[1:02] and then we'd be able to monitor the Q. And A. We also have our website. If you want to. Some submit complaints or just contact the panel outside of these meetings. our address is what we call roundabout. Go forward. Slash services forward, slash police dash oversight. And our panel email is police oversight panel, all on words at Boulder, Colorado lead also reminded. You can find these meetings and all previous meetings on our city website. And now we're going to start with the agenda. Do you want to share the agenda, or just look for it. thank you. Here we.

[2:11] Okay. So first on the agenda, we'll be approving our January minutes. Can I have any? Do you have any objections. Okay, perfect motion to approve. Make a motion to approve. 1 s, perfect. Thank you. Awesome. And maybe update to the next. Yes. okay. the need to don't make a motion just check. So yeah, okay, so let's just listen about to approve these for see Chico, I see maybe future bits meeting meeting Minutes Group for Jane.

[3:07] Alright. So now, committee updates. thank you, James. Sure. I'll start from so June Lensmith and and the Erin Mccoy it's it was only nice weekend and we had a long meeting. It was pretty long waiting. approach a lot of topic. We were there mostly to listen to them, and to see what their concerns were, and and all that. So going through my notes

[4:02] Let me see. Sorry. yeah, they really feel like, you know, the fact that we're getting training with the police is is that we really need to counterbalance that with talking to people. And so it's great, you know. II don't think they really care whether we train to the police or not. Really, they rather not, so that we can stay neutral but if we are going to trade with the brilliant side, we need to make sure that we all interact with members. That's that is a good point. They were adamantly open to bring, being the next chief of police. Express

[5:01] down how in the city, because of the background. you know the the Apd normally, but also giving recruiters involved in a number of cases that were questionable. And so they are really, really opposed to being the next chief. then they would like to see more data on the use of force. The average of use of force of the number of police on duty? They wanna have potential having individualized data police officers.

[6:05] It might be involved in more cases than others or more complaints than others. And that can be individualized. Data can be anonymized. But eventually we have to go back to, you know. The police officer. Anyone is more and others. So really, II mean for more data. home. Yeah, they want us to build relationship with community. But if it is to work with police. then they're not interested and would be very local. So really, really,

[7:00] Yeah. There's a a recent Or assist City Council. Independent before it's about Apd, there's also some articles in Westwards that they really recommend us to read and really do our research about what I can. Considering that Redfern was there for 20 years or so, and starting and being part of that culture and also they want us to meet with the Latinx community and other groups around boulder to know about what they think about how they feel about breakthrough as well, and they ask us to report back to that and so

[8:08] so. and ask for a community. I don't know. Maybe maybe so. What they they couldn't pay was that in the panel pass the policeon and we were talking about sterling Vp, that we should also have a community assigned to voice. I guess the concerns of the community. yeah. So that that was kind of the the perfect.

[9:00] Yeah, I think they were very insistent on that need to be fully neutral, and that seems very logical if we're gonna have. But we see it. There's 2 boys here. So so on on that community there, there is one. How is that gonna work out? Well. I thought, we have the at the end of the the public comment. That's when people can. Members of the community can come and raise issues or question anything. I just don't see how that works out. Maybe I'm missing something. I think it's just like the police can also watch the public meetings, and there's no reason why, you know, the police would have more of a a place to talk at length, when the community members only have like 2 min, and so having someone within the

[10:12] during the meeting, who can actually voice the concerns of community and then report back to different community groups would be the the way it would work like. It's how I understood it. Non voting. I mean again, that that's part of the conversation. It's it's not our, it's not our idea, but it's something that it's something that they they basically if you have a I guess in my opinion, we are recording numbers, right? So yeah, they will be challenging. So to find someone else. So how does that? It's something that we can. Certainly, I think conversation that we can. We can provide space to have.

[11:03] I don't know if that will require. I'm not sure I'm asking so kind of change in the order so we could add an unbodied number, without which I think is. you know, I think the idea is that because we're training with release, because we're working the city because we're, you know, to have someone that is more of a neutral or or more with the. and solely in the interest of the zoom team. and and more oriented that way. But yes. So you know, we. as far as I know, we did not choose Sterling to be the police. That's again the police. Right?

[12:03] Yeah. I mean, I think. Yeah, I think it's good. Definitely. I yes. concern if we don't think we should be choosing. Yes. excuse me. I don't know how the community choose someone. I guess I have a couple of things to say. like we are the community right? That's just trying to disempower our voices, to say you chose the wrong 9 people at the city of 100,000. We are the ones that connect to our community. There's people I represent that I connect to. There's people you represent that you should connect to. We are the community. So to have someone else tell us, like, we're invalid. I think that very personally. So. so I don't understand.

[13:24] Sorry. Go ahead. The third issue is the message you're meeting with these folks in a closed meeting, and so I like to hear what they mean. And other folks think about having these meetings where you're not invited, and we get a 5 min summary of a 60 min conversation last month. That doesn't include all the voices in the panel in those conversations. So see what others think about that

[14:00] before the community engagement chairs to reach out to community was an effort of doing exactly that community engagement. We also thought that, given the fact that they're specifically the Emily have been trying to communicate, and we haven't been able to to provide that space for conversation we started with them. But we have at least a big list of people that we want to reach out to to do the same exercise, which is basically show up. And listen. This was, I guess, a more. II don't wanna see the one I use the wrong. The word in the room way. but it was a more I was thinking, charge is not. The charge is a more informed meeting that we knew that there was a lot that was going to be communicated

[15:04] it was challenging for us to for us to be that the fresh one, of course. But the other thing is that the the we wanted to provide space that wasn't public and with more than 2 members of the panel. In this meeting we have to organize a whole like open to the public meeting. and that was the reasoning, for behind us meeting. Ask the chair of the Community Engagement Committee to this, you know. Kind of community representatives and hear what they have to say, of course they do have very strong opinions, because they were involved in the information of the panel and that initial movement when we were there to listen, and and I guess that is free share. What we heard we don't have. I don't like we. We haven't met after that, so we don't have our own opinion from on that. I think we're just literally channeling the conversation. Except for the piece that I said about the community, that about that was my own thing. But that being said, I think that II wanna be super clear that that was the reasoning. When you have an open

[16:15] meeting open to the public. Of course the conversation might be a bit of a bit different, and we wanted to to hear like that feedback without without that kind of concerns. So so we could openly talk about the concerns. So if that is not the way that the that we think we should conduct this 20 h, then we can talk about it and say, change that. And I just want to add also that communities are, you know, communities are there are not. have not been heard for a long, long time by this panel, and in a manner that is meaningful. And that's our goal here is to go there, and to really listen, and to listen. In the space that they feel safe about, where there's not going to be, they can talk to us frankly without having

[17:04] potentially, you know, eyes that could be impact them, make it negatively. And so the the purpose of us being there and reporting back was also that it's also like announcing public meetings. I mean, I I'm all for transparency, and that's what we're we're most trying to do right now to be as transparent as possible, but also the the practice that we have a lot of work in this engagement committee. And we we want to reach the communities that we are serving and here from them, and I'm sorry I've been here for a year, and I haven't heard anything from them except the end of the Acp. And their 2 min when they show up. And so to me, that's a concern. We are disconnected from our communities, and we need to reconnect, because otherwise, why are we here for

[18:01] so that's my opinion. And and I, I'm I welcome feedback. And I welcome other ways of doing this. But also I'm we don't have that many complaints about the like the next, for example. And so II wanna know why? And I want to know what? What is? What is it, you know like. is it cultural? Is it fear? Is it? What what is it so that we can address it as business. We can within the constraint that we have already. so yeah, I'm open to any any feedback. Ii just wanted to say that we have positions open right now. I say that not there's opportunities to engage already. I understand that people would feel like they haven't occurred

[19:03] alright, frustrating collaboration. But we do have a lot of opportunities to make, and and I would invite people to to do that. I think it's common sort of group space that when you try to set up something, and and there are opportunities for some kind of engagement. And then somebody just comes and yells. not saying that you're not listening to. They're like, well, we've been trying to. But I take your point, really. because I what I hear in the newspaper, and such is it equal to users? And so that means we need But II think both sides we need to hear both sides. I hope they so. We could just hear from other folks, Chico, or maybe or there's going to be future meetings. And

[20:06] are you okay with the lack of transparency where they're not public? Well, public meetings are not so. I'm asking the panel members to speak on their opinion, so she don't be. Are you okay with these meetings with other community partners continue to happen in a non public way. But would you prefer for those meetings to be public. no matter what inconvenience it is to have a public O all, all, all business and all meetings should be open, should be transparency, because we don't want a situation where closed sessions. And you know. you you get to situations of, he said. She said, because they are not open.

[21:02] AB: II agree. I agree with Chico. AB: I'm on. I'm on some other boards where AB: I gotta tell you we were praising. I was praising. How Pop does things. And I thought that part of what the panel was about was that transparency, that it's always open to all of us. We AB: not 3 3 people can't get together and do something on their own. We have to include one another and it it keeps the drama away, whereas in other boards. AB: I know that there's a lot of backdoor stuff happening, and that keeps that so much disease, if that makes sense. AB: So even though I think this had good intentions. It does create sort of like. Well. AB: why, why are we just hearing about this, even though there were good intentions?

[22:01] Okay. I'm curious. Did the community partners request a meeting that where they were be able to speak freely, or was that relieved? Yes, we reached out to them. But like, did they say I wanna talk to you? But I feel like I can't speak freely. It's a public meeting. Or was that sort of we supposed I'm just curious was that was that on request it was not a direct request from them. But what we've noticed is that there is no. there's nobody from certain members of our communities who are ever making comments here and reaching out to them. I would leave in order to give, to to listen to them without putting them in front of cameras and other people like they didn't feel comfortable to do that. Part of it also is that I think we

[23:00] we mentioned that we were doing that with how, it seems to me. say that we were doing that least I can. I remember hearing that there was an intention to do so with groups that there wasn't any clarification of who and when and there wasn't an option for can only wish to join it would like to. Well, I think it's because the last meeting that we have with the engagement was just the 2 of us. So we understand and share it. Hmm. yeah. But the the point of the committee we have is to go and do the work and then come back to the panel and say, this is what we would like to do is not to to do any work on their own. We don't do anything on the Governance committee or legacy committee, without first checking with the panel, making sure that the panel is on board. can participate if they'd like to, is, you know, inform, can share that information, like all of those things, are important for transparency and for making sure that

[24:03] we're working as a team and as a group, because we were voted to represent the community, and not quite of a community, you know, representation, and having it be multi-cultural and diverse in the way that we have. It is exactly. I guess, that there has been some communications lately that didn't go through the panel that were made to official communications that were made that didn't go through the panel. So how is that different which you may see my email. this communication through the communication to a journalist after our last meeting. There's a communication to Noria about how we need to be involved with the chief of police search. I didn't see that before it was an official, ask

[25:03] it. It was an official. Ask from the individual, and inform for the panel, from my understanding. Those where we can always communicate individually and in terms of journalism and press, currently that the co-chairs are the directors of that. And so if it's just, and if it's in general, it's just like an answering question of How does this work, or how does whatever? What's the history of those kinds of things history? And with fax, and with the bylaws in the organization. It seems to me that the answer to the journalist,

[26:00] really home. I mean, there was request from amber about. Is there any contention? And I said no, and she asked about some historical reference, and we didn't have the archives up. And then, after a week later the archives are up, and then I said, you can find the contacts behind. That response with archive. Is that the one it was? It was something that about whether we were involved. What was the the question was about? hmm! I'm not finding it right now. I'm sorry. It was about whether the being involved in the search for a new chief was under the purview of the of the panel will not

[27:10] under the impression that this panel didn't was not wanting to be involved with the search. Well, while we have these meetings to clear up the air, so I don't hope that's apparent. Now that okay. before we we move on, I think that there's a couple of things that happen here. We have new invasion meeting, and we talked about it. Talk about what we're doing. We didn't hear anything. On the contrary, I think we we talked about it, and II think none of us saw a problem with us written out to the community. I think that we only have a year, 12 months in the calendar year. And if every time we think about doing something, we have to wait for a month to bring it back for approval, to meet with community or to, or to set up a conversation with someone that's gonna slow us down quite a bit. And I have been here already for a year.

[28:06] and the other thing is that clearly the approach of having, of being here, waiting for people to come and show up and talk to us. It's not working so that's why we decided to take a a like a proactive step and go ourselves out to the community and ask the questions. At least, I am interested in hearing. So what I'm hearing is that I can do that alone as an individual, then I will do that. And if that is a problem that 2 people will do that as we did in the capacity of community and community and in different chairs. and that is taken in the wrong way, I think. I we can do that. I don't know. But I think for me, at least, it's time that I hear and learn what the heck is happening in this. As we're sitting here, I haven't hear anything. I haven't seen one complaint coming coming from communities other than what we have seen in the past year cases. So I'm not. If I'm gonna have, I'm gonna get in trouble for trying to reach out and understand what is happening.

[29:12] then this is not the right, the right place for me to be representing anyone something, and I'm not listening. I'm not hearing anyone, and I need to be out doing that. AB: I have a question, because what you're saying makes total sense. How are you supposed to do this engagement? If you always have to bring a meeting. So what is the compromise here where you can do this work that you're doing, which is valuable. AB: you know, and you're out there you're in the field, how can you? How how can that be done in in a panel type way? Because she's right? We can't. We can't be everywhere. She can't call a meeting every time she's going to be involved with someone. But you can maybe reach out and say, does anyone else want to do this with me, or something I don't know which I think that you have done. Now that I've listened to you, I don't know but we've talked about it.

[30:12] Meeting for meeting that Milan and I had a Sunday morning that we said we don't want to be at every meeting. We want to be able to say, Okay, Milan. And they be admitting with, you know. excellent. And we can step out. But we need to reach out. And I think, at this point I'm changing the word outreach for reaching out because is not working, or the way that we're doing things is not working, haven't worked for the last 2 years. So so. And and I thank you for that. I think. Look for what you said. Maybe that's what we're trying to do.

[31:00] and I think maybe one way we could compromise on that is to make sure that everybody participate in one of the to one of those events so that we can all see how we work to get. You know how we work and how we listen to community and reach out and then report back to the panel. and I'm I'm in this group, trusting every one of you to to do the best for our communities and to represent us. In a professional manner out out there, and I'm hoping to have the same trust from all of you. But if it's not the case, then I need to know, because then I need to change something. But but I'm also really feeling. The need like this panel is O operating in a, in basically that in official, really, we, we can see this community out there. But we don't know what they're saying to us because we're not hearing them, and and and they refuse to get in the fish bowl with us. For some reason. So we need to figure out and so. Yeah, I would invite all of you to say, hey, I can do it this month, or I can do it 2 weeks, you know, because we want to be

[32:09] very proactive and and and really figure out, you know, how can we serve better? AB: And I think this community outreach is is different than the panel bylaws. Now that I'm listening, I'm hearing something different. So I think this is different than the panel bylaws of when panelists get together. When we put notes out and everything else. This is outreach that you bring back to us. So I do understand what you're saying, and we can't handcuff you. AB: because then it makes it hard for you to go out there and do the work that you're doing. And I love that. And and and from what I've heard in other meetings we are invited to show up. We are invited to show up and participate. AB: So so we have, Junior, though

[33:02] people on the Chico. I'll go next. Well. I hear what you're saying, but sometimes our hands are tied with the open records and the open meetings. Laws. So what whatever you want to do. Always remember that. AB: What does that mean, Chico? I'm sorry, cause I'm new. What does that mean? You gotta remember, Cora. the open open records and open meetings. Laws. we we we are acting in a public capacity, will public officials, in short. So so sometimes sometimes we wanna do things that we can't do things outside the bounds of what the law entails or demands of us.

[34:05] So just let's just be careful to tread carefully on what we on how we proceed. Well, I was just gonna say, I sort of feel like, maybe we're talking about now where we are 2 slightly different things. And also, first, I'm sure you guys are feeling kind of about them right now, I'm not upset. I don't think you guys did anything wrong or negative. Anything is the difference of opinion and a difference of thought about the best way to handle an issue. Right? Like, I think we're just. We're learning about preferences of the panel and how we want things to go right. But what I'm hearing from you guys now is you want to be able to do outreach and like absolutely, we should all be doing that all the time, especially as the committee does your area. You guys are putting extra time into it like absolutely, I think, and please correct me. But the original objection was not to doing the outreach. It was just sort of the.

[35:03] I think the idea of having a private meeting is probably new, like. I don't know if you've done that on the panel yet. So that was maybe a special case. And again, I might not have thought to do that. Understand why you guys did it. But maybe in that case we could have said. Hey, guys, we like the idea of having a non public meeting with just 2 of us to make to allow people to speak freely. How's the panel feel about that? And folks might have had great objections to that, and then we could talk about it like I think the issue is not the outreach. It was the feeling that something happened to folks didn't know about, and that didn't feel great right? No ill will. But like is that the issue? Not necessarily the outreach. So if there's going to be 5 future meetings, we can decide. Now. you know how we feel about that. So right? Yeah, go ahead. No. Go ahead. Well like, does the panel want to talk about private meetings and how we handle that, and what the plan is in the future. Do we

[36:03] meeting? Really? I mean a meeting that's that's not an open records. Actually, it has, that is on in an official capacity for the panel which it felt like. That's what this was maybe wasn't to you guys. And that's maybe something different. So under my understanding is that when we're discussing discussing matters like official matters of the panel. We have to model the meetings. And we were. And to your point, Tiger, we were being careful about that, and we asked that question right? I do think we need. We need more advice, and maybe that's a request from A for Aaron Paul. To kind of be clarified. What is the phone. What isn't. I think, in in this case it was merely the intention of listening. And and that's why we will not

[37:01] providing any opinion. We? I think we were very clear that we were. We wanted to listen. We were not representing anyone because we were not saying anything officially, and maybe yeah, that's that's another site for Mark. But I think the challenge and and and yes, we, I mean, we can. We can talk about that. And we can decide who goes where we. We don't have anything scheduled yet. Just getting to schedule something. It takes a lot of work, I mean. I don't know 3 at least 3 h of work in different days to be able to set up a meeting and and the other piece of wanna be responsive? And and when someone reach out and you say, Yeah, sure, let me answer next meeting in a month. and I get back to you and see if we can meet in the next few weeks, because we have to set up everything for it to be an open meeting. So then we we will somehow reach out by the time we're responding to to months went by. So so I think that II guess my indication is as we decide a way of doing this, we need to think how, how can we also be responsive?

[38:06] You know, in a way that matters if I reach out to thank you also, I mean, our meetings aren't our only way to top right? We can email, we can right? Or if there's like each, it doesn't want to be known by anytime a panel member is meeting on panel business with a member of the public. Can we send out an email like, is that helpful? Is that allowed. I don't know. I think I think as long as it doesn't get into the substance, I think as long as it's a more scheduling pop operational that those sort of things don't violate the open meetings law. The concern is the serial meetings where an email conversation is basic. Yeah.

[39:00] email text. Whatever whatever the form is where decisions are made. And you know. outside of the public meetings. Yeah. and just be curious, what does it take to make it a public meeting. It has to be in this building, or has to be online, or what makes it a an official public meeting? It needs to be noticed. and and it needs to be available for members of the. It doesn't have to be in a city building. It could be in a coffee shop. It just has to be noticed. We're in coffee shop. Well, how long does the notice have to be? 48 h? Yeah. I wanna say, it's 48 h is what the legal notices. So basically, I mean, we talked also about, you know, going into communities and talking to them. Giving our business cards, talking about what the panel is and all that. That would have to be a public meeting.

[40:07] I think that I mean because there's not decisions being made, but I know that there are entities where they do make sure that it's announced like we will be at. I actually don't know the events in boulder. I was just gonna say Chicago but you know we'll be here on Saturday, right? We have a table or attending whatever it is, so that can be something that can be done which might be more cautious than one you need to do to be in compliance. But would, definitely, you know, create that that notice of. you know. And so where. So I'm trying to understand. So if we go to an event, just as you know, 2 people going to an event right? And and we start talking and and

[41:03] talking about the the panel. I'm just giving our card and say, Look, we want to hear from you, and all that with that be in something that we would have to advertise beforehand? Or can we just do that at the last minute. And what's the difference between me going out and talking to community members and listening to them. and then reporting back, and 2 of us doing that. I think that these are all fantastic questions to ask when we get trained for people who deal with this, because I know I talk to on house people I talk to people would be underway. Cp, I talked to people with, you know, other groups around Boulder and and you know. So how? How am I gonna be doing that in this world, you know, trying to and

[42:04] not knowing when I can speak in like I cannot speak, and not knowing when I can report that or not report that because it's decided conversation, I mean, I suppose I can always report back when I hear, but I'm not sure I fully understand what we're getting in trolls. Now you know what I'm saying. I'm just trying to understand. I would like to have a clear definition of what we need to do as the engagement committee in order to do our job. I think part of it is just making sure you're clear that I'm only speaking for myself, and I don't represent the old panel a member of the panel. But I'm not speaking for the entire group just like you. Do you know, any day of the week which I do? I'll go out and talk to people, and I'm picture Channel, and

[43:03] you know I'm not representing the the entire panel. you know, in those those engagements, and that's what we did one of our very often. But you said we're not in trouble. But but when this question didn't come to us directly, and in a ported meeting in the final, you are asking, Victor told the panel. How do you feel about that? To those 2 going into this? I'm sorry. That feels that I'm in trouble. and and it might be read in a different way. But that's how I'm receiving it. And and and I don't. I just want to say that and be the the

[44:02] open phones and drag about it. Because we is the first time that we were hearing this concern. And and the way that you are asking me, Victor, it it sounds like that. To be honest. you know, this is like, how how does everyone else feel about what you know? This is the first time it's happened. That's why, this is the first time we're having right cause we've never had to think about this in the past. We've had communicate community engagement committee events. We've had everything, and everyone was well aware before that there was never a time when we were like Oh, by the way, we met with so and so on this day, you know, like, that's never happened before. That's why we're having these conversations. Yeah. And also no meetings with communities ever happened before. And we're trying to correct that. I agree. I think that having having meetings with communities exactly what we need to do, I just think that there needs to be some level of transparency.

[45:00] I think both and II felt that the report that we were giving back today was that. and you don't feel that way. So II need to have clarity on that. How? What is transparency when you have 2 people going out there talking to community? What is the level of transparency that you want for this panel, or what does the pan? Not you. I'm looking at you. But this panel wants for this kind of things because it's It's heavy to do outreach. It's a lot of work, and that we have broadblocks along the way. Then II need to know. So I can do something about it. Specific steps that like, how would you maybe prefer this situation to play out, or specific

[46:00] suggestions we need to talk about, for like best practices we have, or how we think about to protect events like what makes this feel different then to folks going out to someone else's meeting and figuring out parts for you. I'm just trying to bring all the voices into the conversation, so I just have to make sure that that happens so you know no ill intent there. But I wanna make sure every person. So again, I just want to decide if we can take a vote or not, or Hey, continue as planned? Or do people have. you know, issues with that? So. Victor, but part of me feels that this. This is an area that we haven't come across before. And maybe we ask the city attorneys exactly the same questions that we're floating around because we are. We are not legal experts.

[47:08] and that's why I also mentioned, like March second. there's going to be more training module that's going to be on for an open record app, and that could be a great time to. I have a conversation with with an attorney who does actually, you know, advise on these issues to other boards and commissions. so that I mean, if there's a list of specific questions that I can in advance send to send to the city entering. I've been trying to get some answers on that I mean, I think in general there, there's there's obviously tension over this issue. I think in general, though, the idea that the engagement committee is making steps to have. you know, communication outreach to some of the different entities and communities. I think that's that's fantastic. That's something that

[48:05] II, with my thought very early on, had been lacking from the from the panel so. and whether this was a this step or not. II soon. People are in some ways very happy that the Community Engagement Committee is trying to to make some engagement. it's the process. So one of the things, maybe, is. you know, setting up more of a structured community engagement plan, so that people know people can know in advance what organizations or entities or events people are are at least considering to meet. I mean, and certainly everyone's welcome to attend the community engagement meeting. I think it's usually the last. the first Thursday opposite of what I said.

[49:10] so think that's where people can also, you know. Understand? Yeah from Kenzie. Join us. And but I'm happy to forward onto, or people can ask Aaron themselves if they have. If they have specific questions. about the the guidelines and requirements for Cora and the open meetings. Active. Hmm. sure that one. Yeah, I would consider the what we're doing, what what we're doing requires to build trust. And if I'm inviting you to have a conversation, or I'm inviting you to tell me what you think. And, by the way

[50:07] this is gonna be public, and everyone's gonna hear it. And you're gonna be integrated. I don't know. That would be my honest approach to it. And that's why this meetings were were thought about in this way. So we can listen, and I'm sure that if we can get those connections, then the invitation to be participating in an open meeting and in an open space, and people be showing up and kind of voicing their concerns in public will be much easier. But we don't have either, or right now. and I think that for me that that that part of building trust with communities crucial, and I don't know that this is helpful to be honest. so I don't know. What. What is it that we should vote on if everyone's comfortable with future meetings

[51:00] being spearheaded by the Communications Committee, and okay with the meeting in this continued manner. whereas should we wait till we hear from the city attorney, and just make sure that we're not getting in trouble, and that's in 2 weeks or more than 2 weeks. that means that we cannot do anything until then March second isn't far off. So I'll say, we wait 2 weeks. Others. I sent to everybody's email. I think if I miss somebody I apologize a 2 page summary about the Over Meetings Act. I think as long as we're complying with that. that's what we should do. And 15,

[52:00] I mean, I don't personally have any problem at all with a private meeting with community as long as it's legal. The only thing I'm trying to address is that the panel feels good about everyone being as in the loop as they would like. Does anyone object to having private meetings when appropriate, enable community members like? Is that a point of potential for anyone sort of feels like we're hopping around with what we're trying to narrow down on our positions here. I don't. But awesome. You don't. coming from the same. Sorry. Mtor, mostly just because I don't know necessarily that my opinion should carry much weight. but okay.

[53:01] I don't. I mean, I think that if we wanna have, you know, I mentioned this, that our co-chairs meeting I think that a really great way for community members. To have private conversations is to be a community is to go to their meetings is to go and go to different events. But if we are representing the panel. I mean as the example that Sherry gave like if we're at older. Fair, that's always on May Memorial Day, or whatever that one. Yes, thank you. Boulder Creek Festival, or something like that where we're wearing main badges. And we're saying we're here representing the panel. Then I think that that's important to have everybody be able to participate in. And so I think the only thing that felt sticky about this particular one is, it seems like it was specifically a we're gonna talk to you as the panel and so we're gonna listen to you and and that again. That's great But I think it is something that maybe more people would have liked to have been involved in, or have, you know, because it is, it is important for us to hear those voices, and I and I would like for it to feel like we all have the opportunity to listen. It wasn't just

[54:12] a filtered down what some people heard or did here, what we were able to capture in our notes, or, you know, like I would like for it to be complete in terms of making sure that we're not missing anything we want to be there to listen. And what if that decision is made during one of our official meetings, and nobody else is there. Right? So yeah, how do we do that? Like we all busy, and we all are here sometimes, and not other times. And right? And so you know, that's basically what happened. And so I'm a little confused about your meeting. And who is there? Are you talking to organized group and you just talking to people? So we talked to an organizer. In that case

[55:00] seems fair that if either one of you or 2 of you talk to the organized group and listen. They bring that to the big group and tell the organized group we would. We might be interested in moving with you as a whole panel later. Are you interested? And and then but I think you're right. We want to hear them when they're ready to talk as soon as possible, and we can always send. But let's get the the first communication done. That's the building relationship. And it's it's my understanding is as long as it's to our viewer than it varies entirely by all which is, you know, that's that's a sort of a non scheduled meeting for them where? It just happens. Okay. some of you. And then if they're gonna do a more scheduling, then we give them more. Mmm.

[56:02] And we also welcome anybody of this member of this group to to participate, you know, to those meetings, or to go to the next one like, I don't have to be in all of them right? If if there are other people of the panel wanna do this kind of thing? Yeah, yes, absolutely. Yeah, I mean, I guess my question is, how are we like, is it just going to be at your Guises community engagement meetings? Because it sounds like that's when this one was right. It was the last communication. No, so it wasn't on the calendar. It wasn't the meeting with the not at our last engagement meeting. Okay, no, it was. We decided to do it then. But then we had to figure it out, okay, okay. yeah. I mean, I think, just like the. This is my meeting into me. but that also brings in an opportunity, and we did the same thing with the The legacy committee.

[57:00] which is, you know, we wanted to hear from Daniel and from the police department, the data analyst. And then everyone's informed. But that was something happen so inviting people to like share concerns at community engagement meeting. Then that's already, you know, going to be noticed. It's already going to be a public meeting, so like piggybacking some of those things onto an already scheduled meeting is something we could do or inviting, you know. An entity or persons, or if we do. It's in a public meeting, then the trust might not be there to to be open to that correct. III know I'm just saying that that was for the legacy committee. That's instead of trying to schedule a time with the data analyst and then invite people. It was just, oh, how about. We invite him to this already scheduled notice public meeting. So that anyone who wants to attend it just as one option. Yeah. Yeah. And and maybe for the further meetings. That would be, that would be a good way to do it. And then just do you want to?

[58:08] I just wanted to add one thing. So for the committee meetings they don't get recorded. And then, if you've noticed that the pan, the public members don't get like promoted as a panelist. So they get to stay anonymous like their picture. They well, you only get to realistically hear their voice. So that's just something that you could keep in mind. For privacy issues and such like that. Yeah, so they would have to. Yeah. thank you. So are we going to take a 10 min bile break. It's like a 5 min chat room.

[59:06] Okay? We don't. Yeah. alright, thanks everyone. So we'll continue our committee updates with legacy. Alright. The Legacy committee met with Dr. Reinhard, and on the 20 fifth of last month he's the data Guru for the Bpd. And essentially we had him. or he told us what he does, and he gave a bit of color or details in terms of the data that he provided. The data that was provided was on the juvenile interactions with the Epd, and we just wanted to find out or get more details regarding that.

[60:07] So the next step is that the committee. The legacy committee will be passing out this date. You know, so that maybe we can have some more refined questions or asks and in terms of what we want to do there. There are other areas as well that are being explored. But this is a good start. so the next meeting will be on February 20 s. So there! There was Jason, Madeline Lee's so I'll let the others say something if they wanted to, or add something. Yeah, I think it was just. It was great meeting. We learned a lot from Doctor and her. He was open about like.

[61:00] what is he already analyzing. What does he look at? What data sets? You know? What could we possibly have access to to help with some of the questions that we were talking through but we also just had lots of ideas and lots of things we're thinking about. So our next step is to kind of design like a rough work plan for the next few months, like, what are the few topics? Or maybe one topic that we really wanna dig in on and that should be like a full panel, you know. Discussion, if you guys want it to be so I think Chico is. The next meeting is that we'll probably talk about that and try to narrow down on the first topic. Yes, yes, hope hopefully. By by then all of us would have had an in-depth. Look at what was provided. so that our meeting on the twenty-second will be fruitful. Then from there we can bring it back to the food panel and say, this is what we're thinking. Yeah, okay, so call it just like, let us know if you have ideas or thoughts before then work from the meeting, and we'll talk it through and come up with juvenile data is in the legacy meeting, general legacy and the juvenile data on. Take a look, have any specific questions that we wanted to get. It was just like we got this data done, and we're not quite sure which questions we want to ask. And so figuring out which questions we'd like to ask will help us.

[62:27] you know. Just help help him also provide the data. And you guys wanna know. So. yeah. this was this was just juvenile data that was that were that you were talking about. Or were you talking about data in general like if we had questions back. So the data, what was provided was on juvenile now interactions. But when we Danielle got to talking about what we he does. We discovered that there are other things that we can

[63:06] with the right questions that we can ask for or request. and hopefully can have the data that we want to tell stories. There's there's a lot that he does. So we just need to go in with the right. Ask. okay? So I'll alone send the questions that about data that the end of Icp shared with us. thank you. For governance. Madeleine and I met. We are going to have our next meeting next Wednesday, so the twenty-onest and we'll be going over. We're meeting with Sarah. There's going to be coming to that meeting, and so she can kind of speak to the specific recommendations that she has for, based on the ordinance change and what discrepancies we saw for things we might need.

[64:15] So that'll be an informational meeting. Additionally. this will be, since it is my last month. Madeleine is going to be on the Governance committee by herself. So she needs. She needs some help. She can't do it. She can't do it alone. So we need somebody to volunteer for governance. we have. I think Ad is not on a was up and maybe just yet okay. And we have new members.

[65:00] Think we're standing. You're right. Okay? Yeah. So then you'll have more. But just to keep that in mind that as of March. we should have somebody with there, and before the next monthly meeting you'll be able to discuss it again. Jump in there with her. He's all on tools. Yes. cool, and that's all we have for governance. Thanks. Okay. So then we have elections and committee assignments. So that's you sharing right? It is not. That's not no? Well, there, I mean. there will be new committee assignments. I think so. The election for co-chairs is going to be next month.

[66:02] I'm gonna defer to people who have been here before to explain, like how that's worked in the past and what we need to do, either tonight or in the next month to prepare for the election fee. Yeah, the co-chair election is open thing that we do here, and If people are wanted to throw their hat in the ring. It'd be nice to let other people know So just gonna open it up for that. And folks are interested. And you know. Here's here's who I am, but people don't know me. Here's why I'm interested. Blah blah! Blah! Here's my leadership style. whatever whatever it is you want to and then we use, and then we'll do a vote. And so

[67:12] yeah, that's what we've done in the past. I'll be able to suggest people put their heads in. I think that speaking from experience. It was more of a you know, like, if there is somebody that you think would be a really good Co. Chair. It never hurts to just call them and say, Hey, I hope you're thinking about running just so that there's a little bit of a like They had a chance to think about it. They've had a chance to consider, and you know why. And so that's kind of what we've done. yeah, it doesn't. I mean, I think it's up to you all. If you want to accept a nomination from somebody else, you know, that's more of a any personal preference.

[68:07] but we definitely want majority. Let majority quick question, would it be possible to know, like a little bit ahead of time, who is running just so that we can, you know, with a little paragraph, exactly. When you were talking about just so that we're not like, oh, there's, you know, there's only there are 5 of us who wanna be so just so that we have time to think about it and to but I don't want to pressure anybody. They want to decide at the last minute. Maybe that's that's okay, too. And just yeah, I think we could. That is something we could inform via email. Since we're not voting on until the next meeting to be like, I am interested in. Yeah. Or maybe

[69:05] whoever is interested says that to the co-chair. And then you have a list of 4 people, for example, rather than having that one person say I'm interested. Maybe someone else wouldn't there to do it, because there's already someone there. You know what I'm saying. It's just like so anybody interested can send something to the 2 of you? And then maybe a poll. Could we do a poll that says, like, I'm interested, I'm not interested would we be able to see who said, What does that exist? And I imagine other people don't see. Is that what you're the results? Yeah, so moveable. I think the one that you guys did for the Chief of police gives an option for anonymous. But I don't think we're not talking about. We're talking. Only the people who organize the poll should be able to see the results.

[70:05] Yeah, yeah, I think the one that with Microsoft does it, but not Doodle Doodle is just dates. It's the other one that you guys did that for just you guys to get the results. Spirit moves them right at election time. and I'm sorry I didn't mean to make it more complicated. Yeah, exactly. Just so that people can think about it. Say yes, and then therein, and we can, you know.

[71:10] No, they are a little bit of ahead of time. But when, when all of the panel wanna know who they are? Yeah. Yeah. So then we would want it to be. Whoever says yes or no to be available to everyone. not not when they respond like, II would wanna have you say we have 4 people like, I would like to have an official email from the Co. Chair saying, 4 people are running, and here are their names. and if they have time to write a little explosion of why they want to run them. That's great. I think you.

[72:11] Maybe I'm I'm done sorry. click! Do we have candidates for them? So we know nothing's not that I've heard of guys gonna draw short straws. So there have to be 2 purchase. That is, I believe that's actually important. I mean, it doesn't say anything about We got 32 min

[73:00] I don't. I don't know how you all want to handle the like people trying to something. They could be done right now. Okay, so awesome and then left. She's been excited can only need a retreat. Click some again. That was mine. I guess I just kind of spoke with the community engagement committee and just told them, based on the poll majority of vote for the retreat was going to be march ninth. I believe there was 2 responses that said potentially that they wouldn't be able to go. But again, I'm gonna give that project over to community engagement just because it did come out of there. But I just thought I'd let everybody know potentially that it would be March ninth.

[74:01] Will we have new patents by them? It's expected, because have been informed that candidates have been informed. And March second is the training. Put it into a tech. Thanks, guys. Okay. let's move. Is there an actual morning time that was. Let's see anybody who knows that. Let me see, I think it was 12 pm. To 3. But let me just double check. Let me check, yeah, 12 to 3.

[75:04] Yeah. what was majority of vote? Tico, did I hear you talking thanks. do you want to say, anything more about, or just try to keep. Do it. Okay? And So I guess. meeting with the chief conversation, what was all one didn't to try and inform us on the the next.

[76:02] Thank you for Matthew. And this is I don't think there's anything else. Hmm. II don't have one piece of feedback and just make sure that with maybe one simple invitation, we let everyone know that we're live. because apparently that wasn't understood. But everyone to this make sure the ones schedule the meeting. But we're so. I think that was not super clear. Are you saying that panel members didn't know that they would be televised, or I think well, I I I was. I didn't understand that it was going to be live. and I heard from Chief that he could also be know that it was like by the moment. Oh, so just maybe some information that maybe we. And I'm not saying just specifically with the teeth. But I think that's the breath, please. It will be

[77:00] any benefit of transparency, so that this meeting will be recorded. This meeting is open to the public this is gonna be that stream on the city channel? I don't know. So so on the meeting moving. Yeah. Perfect feedback. I think it would have been nice to limit the answers from the chief to 5 min, because sometimes it is quite long. And I didn't get to ask all the questions that I had, and so I felt that that was kind of a maybe strategy. At at times, until I think the answer is 50 fifth.

[78:02] Well, I mean somebody that's partner job is to keep it moving right, and to make sure the chief stays on. They could be one of our one of us, but anything else. We can't have any questions come in the last minute doesn't serve our purposes for people to know what everyone's thinking, to make sure that people ask put some time in it. So for future meetings, questions need to be submitted by. There's a list of questions those 48 h in advance, and then we also have time in the meetings where this screen form questions right? So maybe in the first hour or hour hour and a half. We have our list of things that people want to bring to the thing.

[79:07] But also we make some time at the end, for you know just some informal sort of ad hoc questions. Quick question, Victoria, where are those questions? Made public, and share with the but chief or manager in chief. He's they were in his hand as he walked up. So I think he got them, maybe a little bit before, but and that's why I did share my questions with the panel because I didn't want to see. That's fine. You can save your questions for. And II don't think that's fair.

[80:00] I'm curious if you're curious, if significant topics will be available rather than a specific question that way you can try to see other information. But it doesn't exactly sorry. The rationale that I heard about submitting questions in advance was because there were times, if questions were asked where they didn't have the appropriate person in the room, and the person wasn't completely able to answer questions that people had wanted, so that, I think, was the motivation when we talked about submitting questions in advance. So the idea of topics might feel like with that. That balance? Yeah, I want to go into because we need to do some sort of policy and procedure. So we have new panel members. On paying them. Umhm

[81:03] necessarily follow, you know. point out certain things or get some more details about other things, you know. Then, if you ask a question about whatever it is. But you know the Apb. And then I don't want to go next to something else, you know, you know. And and I I like how we all work together with some of the questions. Yeah. So that's why I'm that's what I'm saying. It is sometimes familiar to answer questions until I'm right in there also, is there a way that would

[82:09] like, Can we have some questions, because, like I personally love to put them in advance. So do we encourage, follow up questions as needed? Or is there a way to balance those 2 things. I just want to make sure all the voices are the panel are heard. Yeah, people online get people in person. And so you know, folks online get a chance to get therapy points out and answer questions. Does everyone get 17 and a half minutes or divided by 7? I just wanna make sure everyone has their time, because we all have things. So you're going to be. I think that one was, was that an issue like I felt like we. we all had an opportunity to speak. And we were paying attention to the people online. So I'm just wondering if was that really an issue.

[83:07] And if people didn't say anything but that mean that they were not able to. Or yeah, I guess we can ask so. because yes, if that was the case. Then it's a concern for sure. Well, I I'll I'll I've always thought II like the idea of having created questions pre whereby you have them research, do some research and give you some constructive feedback. That unlike just going in there with without it them. If there's some vexing questions or serious questions that they need to have done research before.

[84:00] So I like the curated questions submitted beforehand, then an open session afterwards, and and jest sticking to time. Because if we if we if we don't stick to time, remember public officials, they'll talk all day. Yeah, that's why the answers to 5 min, I would be good. Yeah, time was the issue. I did have to say, Hey, if you need to stop. This was that an hour and 12 min into a two-hour session. So that's why, yeah. which is something like starting with, I don't know. 5 min per panelist, and you can have the plan question, or just you don't blame me, and you can reach that time whenever we do that first. and then those are the rest or something. There's some way we want to sort of. I don't know. That's concern

[85:00] between events which will be Jason's idea of having when we share topics to in terms of externally, but I think internally sharing just so that we make sure that we're we have. We have similar questions that they're covered in the way that we'll answer everybody questions. I think I think that's that's a good conference for me. One thing that I would. I mean it was from staff point of view. It's like, hey questions, does anyone have questions? Does anyone have questions? I mean. I put some questions on. Just so I thought we would have place that we weren't just sitting there without any questions. So if we're sending topics in advance, then those really neat to be done in it, so that, you know we as a panel. You know what's going on. But then, also, we want the police department to have an opportunity to either. you know, prepare or invite the correct person in the room who would have that expertise? You know they're not going to get that at 4 45 on the day of the meeting. So that's that's just my

[86:12] suggestion. Oh. but we can have a meeting with achieved in the next 2 months. I think. March 31. Yeah, let me, are you suggesting that sounds like a great idea or sorry. Yeah. so I think I sent out a poll for the next meeting. Which would be the quarter one interim chief of police meeting, and I propose 2 dates. Just because the meeting that I had in the schedule, I believe that would be spring break for Boulder Valley. But I did send a poll. And then I realized

[87:00] that one of the other dates is actually, I believe, a governance meeting that I had already scheduled. So I mean. the march? Yeah. Yeah. So I think we're looking at. So I think we're looking at March eighteenth, or March twentieth. But March twentieth would be the Governance March meeting. So maybe March eighteenth this weekly. the kind of police monitors we perform. We completed one full case file review, and and then that review is completed. So having the police department disposition, and there are 2 current cases that are awaiting panel review. Those cases are not completed being investigated. So they're not going to be scheduled. At least, that's my citation.

[88:24] And there was a single piece that was completed in January by the Boulder police department. That is, mi, 2, 0 2, 3, dash 0 0 6. But narrative is available on screen and is also available online for people to to read. That includes the ability for people who are hearing impair, to be able to listen to, and the allegations are officers, one. Through 7.

[89:03] Rule 5. Police authority and public trust conducted a high-risk traffic staff. Rule, 6. Use of force. General Order 225 Pointed a firearm at the suspect vehicle. The panel recommended that officers one through 7 were exonerated. and the department determination was that officers one through 7 were Exonerated people, that do this in advance do you want me to read this aloud, or. I didn't know. Okay. I would prefer it. Okay. The oversight panel recommendations, the panel. Recommend that the Boulder police department dispatch supervisor, review the matter and counsel the dispatch, the dispatchers on need to broadcast critical information to responding officers

[90:09] and the notes from the police chief where the dispatch officer has them. or the officer had any the panel advises the Boulder police department to ensure that body. Worn camera compliance is enforced at all levels of supervision and considered whenever boulder police department supervisors review body worn camera. including during the standard review of use, of course, instance, or for the approval of older police department reports. the. According to the holder, according to former Chief Carol, the officers involved had been answered. and audio on camera it's another recommendation from the panel was consistent with the city of Boulder's dedication to racial Equity. Boulder police department must work to ensure that boulder police department members do not perpetuate or amplify racism when they respond.

[91:06] And I'm gonna quote, I'm pulling directly the chief's response. I acknowledge the oversight panel's concern that the information provided by the 911 caller from the victim of the menacing was accepted non critically when dealing with a serious, ever evolving call involving a report of a weapon. In this case a gun. The dispatcher must provide the most accurate information in the fastest manner possible to ensure the responding officers. The reported parties involved, and the community at large base the least amount of person. It was only with the benefit of hindsight, which is true in many cases, that some of the information provided by the caller turned out to be final recommendation from the panel was to advise the Boulder Police Department to critically review how it addresses and trains its members to respond to high-risk traffic stops. Older police department should reevaluate this practice to ensure that it is aligned not only with best practices, but also the older police department stated commitment to de escalation, dignity, and respect in the sanctity of all human life.

[92:10] Again, the direct quote from former chief peril in terms of the oversight panel recommendations to assess what they receive as outdated high-risk traffic, stop tactics, we, as a department do, and will continue to assess the tactics and teach to our office. Going on to the the documents of cases. The January 2024 monthly case statistics. The Independent police monitor classified before 3 of those were identified as misconduct investigations. one as a serious misconduct investigation. 0 as community inquiries, and one was referred through the conflict facilitation process.

[93:05] I observed 5 interviews. I responded to one critical incident scene and I deemed their own complete 0 investigations. and there was one case investigation that the Boulder Police Department closed the open docket as of February sixth. 2,024 is 16 cases. and I classified 4 pieces. interesting and Sorry to catch you short. Could you go back to the last slide? So 16 for so what's the status on those 12? Where are we at.

[94:03] And they're at different levels of review and investigation. Hmm. with no idea when this will come through. I mean through the process. A lot of the complaints are after I classify them. They go back to Ppp for investigation, and that is a process that I don't have much control over it. I'm I'm just thinking aloud that 1212 may may be way. Too many outstanding. I mean. if we're not moving fast enough, then we're gonna have issues of public trust and confidence. I think that that is, that is actually a concern that has been in my mind for the last couple of weeks as something that I need to focus some attention on is how long cases are at various stages of investigation.

[95:06] Let me say that the new ordinance has a timeframe license mentioned, and I want. let's look in with something already been mini lunch duration process yeah, if that's information

[96:00] july. good. Well, now let's look again to zoom back oops and and regarding the independent police monitors, community engagement. I was the guest speaker at the City of Boulder Human Relations Mission meeting, and I attended multiple events posted by the Nwc. And University of Colorado Center for African African American studies, and I met one on one with leaders in the boulder area of black community. the sharing point

[97:00] and letting people know about the recruitment for the new panel, we had 43 applicants. After we extended less and less. Don't do it over with your break. and we, the Advisory Committee, selected 15 of those people to have interviews. On Saturday we conducted 12 in person interviews on Sunday we had final 3. Use zoom alright, so teams and then we are we? There will be report centenary by twenty-third of February for you know the city manager benches the people who get appointed for the student slots.

[98:00] one open slab that will happen. And and then an alternate pool of up to 5. There's only a budget in. Oh, okay, Do you want names or just organizations or person from Nairoba. Central Homestead. Benjamin's school district. There's another panel representation representative Martha Wilson is the representative support room number. And then there is a person who was formerly on the phone he's going to be working as a.

[99:02] forget the term, I think there's any other questions about that answer. Just a reminder that you're still executive at 30. How much seconds. And when I work out, when I finalize that the agenda? I will send it out to you a training schedule. and the next topic is very exciting for me. So this is something that I have been persuading the police department for the last several months, and which is for the older police department to have a portal of buying one camera for complaints. and it was

[100:01] about 2 weeks ago that the the police department committed to doing that. And it's not either looking into the distance. How actually to get it done? Vendors and all all that information. But II shared this with co-chairs, and but it's very exciting, I think, for transparency that these body worn cameras are going to be available for the public to to use in cases where there's allocations in this month. Is there a time frame like if it if it's under investigation or like. when is this? Maybe actually, there's There's some state while other people said, and there are. There are some wrinkles that you know, involving winner ongoing so different

[101:10] different things that are controlled by stable. But I just very excited. And I hope that people on the panel are excited about this you know commitment to public transparency. good I don't have access to going on right? before it gets public or or when the panel will be considered better i'm not sure, so you're saying that there's some laws like guide. Yeah, when it's given to the public privacy.

[102:00] would the panel be considered the need to well with the panel, be able to see those included for the public. 5 wages like how that would happen. I expect that the panel will be able to see kind of buying our camera faster than okay. but not an investor than the public. II wouldn't expect them. But that's I'm just asking, because I'm wondering. that would be part of our review process. II think it. I think it could bring up questions about when positive having having the possibility of having more information when you do vote? Hmm, yeah. or maybe that informing when we do vote on whether to take those decisions

[103:10] and speaking during the basis. yeah. awesome. So we'll take a vote on all those pieces we would need to have. I'm sure it's fine.

[104:04] Oh, okay. So I will read out the case thing and the general rule that was violated where it let it be violated with it, and then we will take a vote, and it will be based on majority, whether or not to review that case. So we'll start with Sm. 202401. Okay, so Sm. 202401. There is one officer involved. With 5 counts. First, one is rule, one. Compliance with values, rules and general orders. G. Investigative process rule, one compliance with values, rules and general orders. GO. 203. Investigating responsibility in case assignments

[105:06] rule one. Compliance with values, rules and general orders. city and folder litigation, folding data. Preservation policy rule 3. Truthfulness rule 8. Conduct people. Second, to take a look new about please do. Okay by name. Votes from gay to review this place. 1, 2, 3, one side 6. I see you. Cheek go. Okay, and rules not to review this case. Majority right now.

[106:02] hmm! At least one more awesome. Next case M, 5, 2024 over one there is one, sergeant involved, please. Hmm. one, sergeant and one, officer. Thank you 2 officers. Sorry. okay. Sergeant, one has 3 counts of role one, compliance with values rules and general orders, Gpo, 101 and bias policing rule, one. Compliance with values, rules and general orders. GO. 2025. Resource rule, one. Compliance with values, rules and general orders. GO. 2, 2, 5. Use of force officer. One has 3 caps over one.

[107:01] Compliance with values, rules, and general orders. GO. 101, and bias policing rule one. Compliant values rule in general order, GO. 2, 2, 2, 5. Usage force and rule, one. Compliance with values, rules and general orders. Jeep or 2, 2, 5. Use of force. Officer 2 has one. Allegation of dual, 5. Police authority and public trust. Alright votes to today to review this type piece. Okay, 6, sixteenth votes for no. always a no moving. In this case we have volunteers. So without I see your hand.

[108:07] Thank you. Okay. And I, 2024 oboe. 2. There is one detective involved rule, one. Compliance with rule and general orders rule one. Compliance with values, rules, and general orders. GO. 23. Investigative responsibilities. Rule one. Compliance with values, rules and general orders. GO, 203. Investigative responsibilities and rule for respect for others. Okay. alright folks to review this case. folks for yay, please to be Gordon and votes not to review this case.

[109:00] This case will be review. Okay. that means lensing. See your screen? Oh. so something think alright. So still, majority rules will be reviewing the case any volunteers. symptoms. yes, yeah. do we know. finally, like, should we?

[110:01] I mean. just all of those were classified. All of these, okay, okay, well. yeah, I think these were the 4 that were, yeah, okay. so know not keep an eye out on their email. We need somebody urging. that's true. Alright, one more. MI. 202403. One detective involved rule, one. Compliance with values, rules and general orders. GO. 2 or 3 investigative responsibilities rule one compliant, the values rules and general orders. GO, 2023. Investigative rules, responsibilities. Sorry rule 3. Truthfulness. Move forward. Respect for others. Move? 8 conduct. That's great. So this one, yeah, I'm recording. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, we're just thinking about just a second.

[111:05] Okay, okay, let's forget to review this case. 5, 6, yes. Okay. Volunteer. For an example. you can put me in on this one, too. Yeah. But she, Jason, as well. thank okay. awesome just want to add, because I inquired to the city attorney, who, because this process seems to me we're able to

[112:08] vote without conversation. And she did. She did say that she thought it would be fine for us to have these voting on, and summaries to be able to do that but maybe do it after the meeting was close to the public so that we people could ask some questions and maybe get some more insight. It's easier to convey than just the organization. So that's something that I would just like to let the panel know. So that's something that we could start doing next one I'm happy to hear. Yeah, but it does seem like.

[113:00] because otherwise we'll use some public comment. Yeah, I just. you're the panel you're it's your, it's your vote. Can we make and ring them? So. So it is in the bylaws. During an open session the part of the panel's present panel will go on, whether to to move forward with a case, investigation and affirmative vote. The majority of panelists present, the meeting will result in a complaint being assigned for review by at least 3 panelists. If further discussion is needed pertaining to the deliberation or voting process that contains sensitive information, the motion motion will be made seconded and approved by the majority of the present panelists for closed session at a future time. So mostly, just to say, that is currently within the bylaws. But

[114:04] they're yeah. I mean, if you if you want this to happen sooner rather than later. But now I'll also move to get rid of that asset with the dialogue. II don't. I'm not a parliamentary person. Language. Yeah. to say, here's what we wanna get to, because we don't. Yeah, we don't. You know, we need the words to vote on as a perfect

[115:02] seems like the topics are missing, could take. Yes. and take that into is that is it? Is it meeting? I think, that turns the email community is putting any complaint. And

[116:03] it's, you know, like, we don't want it to seem like we're making decisions behind those doors. We want them to know. Here's stand by your vote that you may say yes or no. This is the case that I think we should review. I know that was definitely important to pass things not specific to the voting or also the discussion, the voting. Yeah. So potentially, if you want to like, then we wouldn't be voting until the next meeting that we do for a session before the public session starts to discuss and then both join the public session. Yeah. yes. yeah. Then you would probably need people to show up. Haven't we done this in the past where we. you know, we're in the middle of our 6, 38, 30 session a few minutes. I think that's I think that's possible. I think we don't.

[117:16] But that would be. That's a that's a really important how about in person meetings? We started anyone who's able session

[118:01] for virtual meetings. We do it in the middle. so I can go to the well, and I don't want to default to always discussing every case. I think. Yeah. we might be a procedure or a panelist. Just say. I don't really discuss this all. But otherwise we sorry I'm gonna add, maybe just like a maybe technical like it sort of comment when we take our racial equity classes. Remember how they took out those breakout rooms.

[119:05] Is that maybe something that we could maybe do with zoom like I would have to look into it. But I know that maybe either Microsoft teams or Zoom does this like breakout room, where it just would break out like certain number of people, and then you put a timer on it, and then, once that timer is done, then the people get taken back like that would maybe be for a virtual thing but just kind of something that I've picked up on that would be a good solution where I would raise my hand and say, Can we discuss that because I don't. and that would. That would be breakout room for 10 min and would say, Okay, and then go back to building. discuss the you know matters.

[120:04] I'm I'm just letting the panel know that there's there's an option that might so breakout rooms are available, and that would give us a lot more flexibility, and feel to call it on the spot and say, Hey! Before we validate this vote I would like to discuss it. Sorry we can talk about time as well.

[121:00] Next governance is the 20. First. the training is the second. and the next panel meeting would be the thirteenth. So potentially we can get answers from legal. And then at the next panel meeting, people that have language suggestions for bylaw updates can bring those reflecting dialogues implement it for next month of this month and 20 s I wouldn't see that one. I was concerned about tally and with speeding and then pulling again on the person. It sounds like it might have worked on that. And some of you and comments here. I was supposed to use this, and I'm very, very, very anti wherever I go today I was in the West Singer Center if we crease came in, and I asked them less than minutes.

[122:15] and Scott and I know that works there like they were really mean to me, I said, I don't trust police, and they said, Well, we've only been talk to you, you know we won't tell you what we were here for, and he wouldn't tell me what they were there for. It's Sunday internal, you know. I don't want this internal shit. I want everything out in the open when I go up to a policeman, and I want and provided that I'm not distracting them for really important step they have to do. which is usually not the case. Then I want to hear from them what they're doing. What are they up to. Where's my tax dollars working for me? I want to know. you know, after this thing, with my stuff taken here by mistake, I never want to please involved, nor you call them cause. I happen to see her the first person.

[123:01] and they destroy my. They love me, but please rob me of my interaction for the city employee who took my stuff for his supervisor. So supposedly. Maybe I owe him something I don't know. Maybe it should never have even been paid. They gave me my $360 back and my computer case they're gonna get. But I don't know. I you know, I wanted to restore it. Justin, I would never ask. I never had a choice for him. It was just prosecuted, and then Michael down. She just blew it off, and I never got to speak to all of them, and all of her doesn't work anymore, you know he quit, and even his supervisor, quick! January tenth was your last thing. I don't know why I don't know, she inspired. I don't know shit. and I'm really angry with the situation. As it is, it's not an all subterfuge. And you know. first of all, I have to say the most important thing that you need to do. It's Gaza and Palestine and Israel. because this is international human rights violations

[124:12] and that, and it triples down and it trickles up. It's both directions as a as as a police panel. Best thing you can do is recommend, and I don't know your advisory capacity, but recommended the City council to have a public hearing on Palestine. and and so, you know, and and to get. And to make a strong statement. 500 people were in, you know, in in Minneapolis Deep Fund is real, you know, like I know, it's Zionist in prominent in democracy now that says Israel should not exist, and she was a former by Zionist from the Ivf. Her dad's an Air Force commander and ship. Okay?

[125:00] this is impossible. Amount of time. 3 min. I think there needs to be a lot more iterate step like you were talking about earlier it if you don't. If you have your prepared statements, it's like one monologue versus another monologue. You need to be iterate to really be progressing, and we need restored adjustment as the first option I never wanted to prosecute, and I was never given the choice and community policing. Which means, when I talk to the police. you know that. They say, Oh, yeah, we're pulling because it's got it, you know. And and I know where my tax dollars are going, cause I'm paying heavy. I just my property taxes went up 3,000 bucks. There's a lot going into. I wanted to talk about Redburn because he needs to go yesterday. Can I? Just respond to something? Is that We had a meeting with Redfern last week last week. In the city.

[126:05] Good cause. I talked to him last night at the Hate speech thing. So that's something that I really believe in. Personally, I'm not getting the opinion of the panel and and brought it up with them. So For what it says. Great! We're not sure. I'm not sure when it's gonna happen. But can we close the meeting? you know.