January 10, 2024 — Police Oversight Panel Regular Meeting

Transcript

Captions from City of Boulder YouTube recording.

[0:00] Things in the chat and someone's also doing the minutes as well. Does anyone need to be my co-host, or that's usually out of my control. Right. Victor, would you repeat what you said? You got cut off the very first part of what you said was cut off. I was just reminding people to use the the chat. I mean not to use the chat, but to speak things out loud. And just making sure that the minutes, and everything are going to be recorded. Oh, thank you. So the recording is start. So welcome to our January meeting for the police oversight panel. we acknowledge the Arapaho youth and Cheyenne tribes, the the traditional custodians of the land on which the police oversight Panel and Balta police department operate and pay our respects to their elders, past and present. So I also like to welcome any staff or members of the public, or any press.

[1:04] and welcome our panel members, those who are not feeling well, thank you for still being here and just wanna also acknowledge just you know, anything that has been challenging and looking forward and hopeful with you starting off this New Year. any members of the public we use a. QQ. And a. To answer any questions. If there's a bigger issue that you can't answer in the QA. We'll save that for the public comment section, which will come at the end. Also, if you need to submit complaints. you can go to our web site at bouldercolorado.gov slash services, slash police oversight. or you can email us directly at police oversight panel at Boulder, Colorado, Gov. And this meetings are recorded and will be posted to our website. So I just want to share the agenda for it tonight. So we will be approving the minutes. Just have our usual committee updates. We'll be asking people to share any special skills or strengths that they have.

[2:11] Selena will also be talking about the poll and changing the meeting, date or time. We'll talk about changing with the chief of police and meetings discussion around email, the March panel retreat. And then we'll conclude with our report from the Monitor voting on our 2 cases and concluding with public comment. And so with that, can we get a motion to approve? Or do we have to read the minutes, or do we just make a motion to approve. I'm sorry I'm running this for my first time. So do we need a motion to approve the December thirteenth. Yeah, I motion to approve. We usually just motion to approve, because it's with the stuff we send

[3:03] usually don't read through the account I second to approve. Thank you so much. and with that we'll jump into our committee updates. And so. since I heard your voice last, Chico are there updates from the legacy committee we're having our first meeting of the year on the twenty-fifth, I think if I got my gets right. Yes. So after that we'll be able to give feedback the February meeting. and your committee is fully staffed, and you're you're good to go with that, or do you need to recruit anyone? We we can always we we can always have in more people if they wanna come on board. For now these lease

[4:04] Jason had us on myself. So we we're okay. But if others wanna come in on board. wood will come them. Thank you so much. Shika. Appreciate everything you're doing over there. Our next committee is governance. Yep. so we have not had a meeting. We took a break for the holidays. As we had one person traveling had a lot of things going on. So we will be resuming our meetings this month as well. And currently, it is just Madelyn and myself. And my last. My term ends in February, so Madeline will be needing some help. If anybody is interested in the update of the bylaws.

[5:01] Thank you. And the date of your next upcoming meeting, I believe, is sorry. I just 1 s, third. Wednesday. Yeah, usually it's the third Wednesday. Correct. Yup at 6. Thank you. Hadassah and our next committee is community engagement and communications. Yeah, I could speak to that. We had a meeting on the fourth last week, and I guess we're gonna be talking further about what we talked about. But we're really to stock about how much we have to do as the community with the community, and ha! How to engage people in in our community to learn and about the pop and use it as much as possible. We also talk about the retreat that we're gonna have coming up.

[6:06] All of us together. To get to know each other. Non, non business, type of retreat. And so, yeah. And our meetings are, I believe, every first Thursdays of the month. At least that was what happened this week. And right now. We have Solidad Madeleine and myself and Victor. But We are still a small group. And Victor being co-chair. I don't know if you're gonna still be on that committee, Victor. and yeah, that's it, for now we have an agenda point. So

[7:00] we'll talk more later. Thank you. Thank you. And also notice you sent out an email. Was that also connected to the later point? Or was that around something? Okay? And I still plan to attend that committee? You know, as I can so well, thank you for our panel updates our next agenda. Item, is basically an open conversation to see what strengths and skills that we have in the panel. We may not know each other so well. And so. if you have a specialty or a skill that could really be a asset to the group. now would be the time to talk about that. For example, when we had our Cu student and data was his specialty right? And he was Sam. He was all about data and was passionate about it. Right?

[8:01] So we're just gonna make some time for everyone to go around and share you know what they see as a strength, a specialty or a skill that they can bring to. You know our group as in past segments. Can I add something to that, Victor? Cause? That's something that we talked about with the engagement and communication committee. And that's what my email was about also is for you to think about it. It can be as small as you know you're good at. I don't know with excel, which is not a small thing, but you can be, you know your skills. It doesn't have to be like, I'm a master at data. Think about what you like to do and how that could be an asset for this group. And so it looks like we have 2 opportunities. You have a chance to respond during to the email, to the poll that she she sent, and we also have a chance during this meeting just to discuss

[9:09] so would anyone like to share and discuss to some of the talents and skills that they bring to the panel that we could use, and maybe areas that we know, or maybe areas that we don't know. Yes, Milan. I can start. I'm a linguist. I'm a translator. I translate in English into French, but I have been doing that for many years, and so I would say, my skill set is really being aware of what language needs we need, even if my Spanish is is horrible right now. But just understanding communities who might not be speaking English and their needs also. paying attention to accessibility.

[10:01] I'm also a technical translator. So I enjoy peeking out on websites, or making sure that every every button works and all that. and I also enjoy designing communication posters when I have the time. And I'll say that's that's it, for now. Also enjoy cooking baking bread. But that's secondary. Well, thank you for that. Hopefully, we'll find out in march in person. Go ahead, Chico. Well, I was. Gonna add a slight twist Victor in terms of what we are passionate about. And so I come from the disability world, my son, in special needs, mental health.

[11:00] so that I'm passionate about that. So so anything to do with that that's in my world. So that's I bring that experience in terms of what I do skills. And I, I'm a numbers Guy. I deal with numbers every day. All day. I've dealt numbers, so numbers don't faze me in terms of research. Somebody paid me at one time in my past life to do research, so I can read all day. I can research. So that's what I bring to the table. Thank you so much, Chico, and I appreciate you for for sharing that. Oh, Lizzy. yeah, thanks. Sorry. I'm like, have a half of a lost voice this week. I manage a data science team and do data science work myself. I have a long history as an analyst, and II love doing that kind of research and statistical analysis so happy to

[12:08] jump in where previous panel members have left off on that front and help out where you can. I also really like kind of process, and figuring out how best to make things work smoothly, business processes, operational stuff. So if we have. you know, stuff that's tricky with how we share information or track things, or all that kind of stuff I'm I'm happy to work on that sort of thing as well. Thank you, Lizzie. Appreciate that. guess strength, skills or passions. Some of my passions are the unhoused community. I used to be a member of that community. I'm on the board of directors of the Boulder Shelter for the homeless. So I'm involved in

[13:00] just anything that has to do with. You know, the unhoused community is definitely one of my. So my passions I could talk about it all day long. I also have a lived experience. So I knew Officer Equo what 9 years ago, when I wasn't on the panel, or maybe 12 years ago, right? And so I have this experience with the police that maybe some of you don't. So I've sort of been there done that been through the system and come out shining? But also I know what it's like. And so there are times where I use that experience in. you know, in cases. But also if you ever want to talk to me about some of these things. You know I offer that story. you know as well. So that's just a couple of things in my regular day job. I'm a recovery coach manager, and I teach and train people how to be recovery coaches for a statewide grant, and I also supervise a statewide team of coaches across the State.

[14:07] My name's Jason, and I'm a an attorney primarily criminal defense, although I do some other things. I have worked with the justice system for over 26 years. As a trial attorney and a public defender. And now I'm a private lawyer. so I've seen these many of these issues from a lot of different angles. And I do have contacts in in these these areas. this somewhat. I don't even really know how to explain it. But as a part of my training. We work real hard to understand and empathize with other people and trying to find ways

[15:02] to help others to to see another person in a different way. So I think a skill that I have would would be to if if 2 people were having trouble communicating or getting along either separately or together. I think that I could help them to learn about the other one and and have less tension or less trouble in that way. And same with situations. a. And so if if there is a situation where we're we or some part of this group is having trouble with somebody, because either they're not communicating and they're always angry with us, or or we are dismiss about them because we're like, well, I can't help you because you're just yelling maybe I could. I could help break that impasse and and help us get to another spot.

[16:03] be happy to discuss that more at another time. Thank you. I think that leaves just me and I would say, my specialty is. I work as a quality manager. So auditing. putting together training programs, reviewing those training programs and policies and ensuring that you're in compliance with all of those different facets. I'm also bilingual, so I speak Spanish. not an official translator, but you know II get by and have put together doc train documents in Spanish as well. So. Sterling, you're also a member of this panel. So could you share as well?

[17:00] Sure. So you guys know I've been a police officer. With the city boulder now for 21 years. In that time. I've had a lot of roles. I think things will be helpful for this role. I've been a defensive tactics instructor and officer survival instructors, a lot of the encounters that you for cases, as you guys read that have encounters that involve some sort of physical contact with the the public, I would be good and I'd be happy to share my my thoughts on those when you on cases that you guys vote to go to look at. I'm also a detective sergeant and previously detective as well. So anything that deals with the cases involving detectives or case assignments. I'm happy to share my opinion on those as well. I think there's made one. Still. I'm not sure if she's up to it. But if you are Madeline.

[18:02] yeah, I I'm here. I basically I come in on the advisors. role and management 40 plus years experience at at an executive senior executive corporate level and advisor. So I'm a problem solver. And So that's probably what I am most excited about getting involved with. Thank you. Thank you. And there's still a chance to, you know. Go a little bit more in depth in the email. That was sent, and again. Just spending a little bit of time to, you know. Get to know these things could help make us just a more effective panel. So thank you. Everyone for sharing.

[19:08] And so the next one, I just want to hand this off to Selena. Hi, everyone. Sorry. I have a bit of a dry cough going on. So just gonna share some data. Would you guys like me to share my screen? So you guys are able to see the data or hmm, would you like me to just share it over. You can share your screen. Let me see here. Okay, so this is the data that I collected for the all panel meetings. So the first question was, Do you prefer quarterly or monthly in person? 50% chose to do every other month? 33%. Cho chose quarterly, and 16% chose monthly.

[20:05] So it looks like, we are preferring every other month for an in person meeting. and then next question was based on your availability. Please choose 2 days. You prefer to meet option. One seems to be 50% chose Monday and then their option 2 to be Wednesday. So looks like other than Wednesday other than Wednesday, as our general meeting looks like Monday is preferred. Next question was based on your availability. Please choose 2 times 2 meeting times you prefer to meet. Looks like for option. One the most popular were 5, 30 to 7, 30 and 6 to 8 Pm. Option, 2 looks like it was still 6 6 to 8 PM. And then 6 30 to 8 30 PM. Next question, do you prefer the public to attend only virtually or in person? Looks like virtually one. That vote for 53% for in person and then other. I looked at the other, and it seemed like it was both options

[21:13] the following locations, have been considered. Please rank what destination you prefer. Looks like a majority of you voted for. It doesn't matter and then looks like Penfield. Tate was the next option last question. These were just any thoughts that you guys had. And that was just a comment for thanking me to give a chance to give feedback. Let me see. Let me share. Now the second one. give me 1 s here. Okay, so first question for that was based on your availability. Please choose 2 days you prefer to meet. It looks like option. One was a split decision Monday or Tuesday, and then second option was Wednesday. So looks like we got a vote on

[22:16] either a Monday or Tuesday. second question based on your availability. Please choose 2 meeting times. You prefer to meet looks like for option. One. It was a split decision between all times. And then option 2 looks like it was a split decision between all times as well. First question. yep, I got it. Thank you. Okay. Next, I will just give you a second as well with this one.

[23:00] so yeah, split decision between 5, 5, 30 and then 6. Look, the I just based it on previous meetings. It seems like you guys had 2 h of meeting time for each one. So I just open that option for all those third one, it seems like, would would you like to submit questions beforehand? Looks like, you guys preferred yes and no so split decision there as well. And then I answered a follow up question if you answered yes to the previous question, how much time in advance? And through which method would you like? So it says, a week. Seems like someone said they didn't have strong feelings, but would like to collaborate a few list of questions. and be prepared with data and and information. they just don't want to be restricted with questions submitted beforehand. And email list a couple of days beforehand seems effective. So it seems like at least a week is preferred if questions are given.

[24:11] Fifth question was, would you like to create an agenda in advance? It looks like you guys do prefer an agenda. So it seems like we will create an agenda for the next meeting. We have the following questions, or sorry. The following locations have been considered. Please rank what the destination you prefer looks like. We preferred Penfield Tate over the boulder police department. So the seventh question would there like to be soon. Looks like, yes, there would like you guys would like for there to be soon. Please create your own input on the timeline. So looks like you guys. I gave the options of you know what timeline you guys would like to have during that day. Looks like you guys would like to eat first. you guys would. Looks like there's a comment here. Food is great, but would like to discuss or have discussions with the chief. So maybe we could start the meeting after everyone is served or end while we eat? Or can we leave time in an agenda for questions on topics that are not necessarily in the agenda.

[25:13] 6, 30 to 6 30 PM. Panel. Dinner and introductions. 6, 30 to 7, 30 open discussion. eat first, then Chad first half hour, prescripted questions after that open forum for all other questions, no strong feelings on whether there's food, no. So selecting no, just in case it is, complicates things, no strong feelings on timelines, either. So it looks like, maybe people want to eat first and then chat? so looks like what other members from Bpd. Would you like to meet use of for use of force sterling? Not any. At this point? None. And then data. So it looks like data sterling in use of force. And then, if there's anything else that you would like to consider for this meeting. It is important that or I'm sorry I'm gonna read this comment. It is important for the chief

[26:07] to attend these meetings. If she's not available. I'd like to at least meet 2 days notice, so that we can change the agenda if necessary, and the deputy chief of whoever is replacing her, has time to prepare to meet with us and actually answer our questions. Otherwise it's just a waste. Everyone's time. If there's a last minute urgent matter that prevent her from attending the meeting. A reason should be given to the panel, and the meeting should be postponed by a week or a month most, but not the next quarter. So that is the data that I have collected. I know that we were gonna maybe chat a little bit about those results, so I will then. Now pass it over back to you, Victor. Alright, thank you, for that. Looks like we had 3 votes missing, but we're going to, just, you know, move forward with the data that we have. So first discussing the the all panel meeting, what were some thoughts

[27:04] on that? So just to summarize, it looks like we want to move in person every other month. Looks like Mondays are better than Wednesdays. possibly moving it to an earlier time. maybe not having the public attend. and if it's in person, we really don't care, but prefer not to have prefer to have it at the Tate Building. So just want to open it up to thoughts, comments, suggestions. You can just UN go ahead, Lizzie. I'm curious to hear from the folks who wanted to keep. II feel like if we're in in person, and we have the space, and maybe there's space constraints. But it seems nice to allow the public to come in person if they're more comfortable with that. But I there might be things I'm not thinking of. Does anyone want to speak to the preference to have us be in person, but not allow the public to attend in person as well.

[28:02] Is it like the room? We don't really just have the right setup. That one I am not sure of. It would be a cozy environment if we did have the public there. And I mean, that's what we want, though, right? And we've we've never had a huge turnout, right? I mean, if we have 3 to 5 people, if we have the space, it feels like if being in person helps us see each other as people and kind of come together in a way that feels a little more like personal, and we're all here to solve problems together. It feels like maybe we could extend that to the public as well. I saw 2 hands. No, I just see one Chico. I think II concur with Liz and and and I'm curious, because

[29:02] if, on one hand, we want a community to be involved in what we do then we are asking them to to do virtual. It's it's not gonna succeed with our efforts of community engagement and getting them on board. So the more we interact in person, if possible. the better. So II don't understand the virtual thing for the for the public. Bamilon. Thank you. Chico? Yeah, I agree, I think, that it would be good also to do both virtual and in person, so that the members of the public who cannot make it for different reasons. Could attend the meeting virtually so I would. I would vote for both. make both available.

[30:02] if that's possible. I know it's difficult for to find the room, but I think you know, I think that online thing is factored into the the room selection. But I saw no one had an issue with moving the meeting till to Monday. So is that correct that we want to. I'm actually wondering what which Monday of the month that would happen. I actually have generally 2 meetings on Monday. The is their monthly meetings on Monday, so I'm I'm interested in. you know. I would like to be able to attend those meetings, if possible. and I think for trying to figure out for the ndp. I think it's normally the first Monday of the month, I believe.

[31:01] yes. it's the first Monday of the month. The last meeting was postponed by one week because of the first. Thank you. So maybe a follow up is making sure the other 3 members vote. So we have everyone's input. And then we could make a more informed decision. Lizzie, I see your hand. Yeah, just one note. I was just sort of looking at Monday's to to look ahead. We're gonna run into a lot of holidays as well, and that might be difficult to sort of handle. Do we want to hold them on holidays? Is that gonna cause issues for our folder staff, something to consider. Thank you. And hadassa thanks victor, yeah, so I, just wanted to say, so, I, I'm one of the people that did not vote. Since I will be leaving here shortly. I didn't think it was right from my vote to sway. You know what days I think you guys should be meeting

[32:02] And the other kind of just piece of information is, you know, do we want to implement this now? Or do you want to wait until new panelists come on board? For their input as well? So we make sure that it's something that is, you know. everyone can make just something to think about. So thank you. That's an important point. Do we want to implement this in February? and we still have some time to make that decision. Go ahead, Sterling. so I don't remember from the last meeting, but I know there were some issues with availability from some of these buildings. So I don't know if if we have schedules for Mondays for bruising those buildings that have both capacity for us, public and virtual. So it's something you probably want to consider as well before the other decisions would be made.

[33:00] Thank you. Appreciate that. And Madeline. Yes, just a second. yes, okay. I was going to Second, what Hadassa said? I think that the next 1 point to bring on the the new members to before we make that determination. And also they gotta remember whether I was one of the ones to hold it or not. But in in case I wasn't Monday. I had. Do have conflicts on a on a Monday. So alright, thank you. I'm definitely taking notes on this, and we'll also have the minutes. I will double check, though, Victor, to make sure that I do vote. Mobile is entered all right. Thank you, Madeline. So moving on to the next portion is the meeting with the chief

[34:04] and so hopefully, you guys saw the email. But there's been some changes where the chief is moving on to another job. And now the Redfern is the interim. And so I just want to open up some thoughts to that again to summarize. It looks like Mondays was a choice, for the chief meeting is 2 h long enough. There is a mix of the questions, or having some pre-ended questions, and having sort of sort of a freestyle wanting to have an agenda, not at the department. and not postponing it 4 months. If something is missed. I would just say some thoughts on meeting with the chief is. I don't think it's a good idea to silo ourselves with the chief, and not meet anyone else, because, as we see, if something happens with our relationship now, we're starting from scratch, and we're strangers to these folks, right? So if there's a chance to have other people in the room

[35:11] who also have power and command, it's it's a ship, and so it's sort of all hands on deck, so why not meet some of the senior hands on deck? You know, is one of my thoughts. If he would have met with Redfern, then we would already be sort of ahead, right? But you know we. anyway, that was the past. So what are the thoughts on meeting with the interim chief and the new chief I might be misinterpreting. That's the same person, right? The interim chief is the new chief right temporarily. And yes, oh, you're saying, meet now with the Intern chief. But

[36:03] if we have a new permanent chief at some point we'll meet with them. That's a great question. What does a group. Think? V. Vict. III don't think that should matter, because if we have a schedule of quarterly meetings with the chief. it doesn't matter who is in that position? Right? Yeah. So definitely, meeting with the interim, chief is the person you know, in the command role. So I agree with what Chico said, there! Does anyone feel differently. Milan? No, I don't. I don't feel differently. II agree with that. Ii understood your question, Victor, as do we meet with other members of the Vpd. Also? Is that what you meant? Or

[37:04] but I meant the whole list of things that Selena summarized. and that was just one of those. So that's yeah. Yeah. I mean, II would like, maybe maybe one of those quarterly meetings should be like meeting a team of people from Vpd, representing different all of these interests. And having an exchange on that that could be interesting to me. Getting to know different roles and different people and different roles. Thank you. Other thoughts on the chief meeting, or did the poll catch everyone's thoughts and feelings that Selena had shared. I think. I think that's a great idea, Milen, to have other people present like we did when we did our initial training. We met with like Psu and the hot team. And you know these other different teams. But that was really our only time that we met with them. And so I think it'd be really useful to have more opportunities for that to discuss and ask questions.

[38:23] Thank you. Hadassah. Selina. Yeah. Just kind of going on continuing on the conversation. It looks like the next scheduled Quarterly Meeting. Would not be until March looks like March twenty-seventh. If we're still go. Sorry if we're still going on. If we're still going with the quarterly meetings, it would still be March twenty-seventh, so I don't know if we wanted to. Maybe schedule something before that just because we didn't have our last one just kinda trying to. You know, know, the logistics

[39:05] for scheduling purposes it. And just to to add to that you know, Selena and I have been in contact with the department. We were trying to set something up to find the chiefs availability in January, and the the date that was proposed was actually tonight but because of the panel meeting we we at we were. We were already in conversation about trying to do the make up meeting. I guess I should say that March meeting, I think, falls during Boulder Valley School, District spring break also. Chico. I would say we stick to march, because that will give an opportunity for the new members to meet the chief as well. or whoever is chief.

[40:04] Thank you. Michelle. I saw you raise your hand. You could use a Q&A feature, and this also will be a public comment section as well. So looks like there. This is to continue to be discussed. So thank you, everyone for your feedback and participation. I'm sorry, Victor. I mean, should we should, Selena and I try to get a meeting with the interim chief to make up for the postponed December meeting to try to schedule something either this month or hopefully early February. Or are you saying, just move on to whatever we were going to do in March. I like the idea of 2 meetings, since some folks have never had this opportunity, but also

[41:05] there could be changes. So what does the group think? My preference would probably be to go ahead and schedule the meeting coming up, and then we can meet again in the next quarter with the new new group of folks. Yeah, I agree. I mean, I have. I have never met with the chief. I think the only meeting that I've had was with. I'd be available for a meeting this month or next. I'm happy to. I'm happy to do 2 meetings. Well, that sounds good. I definitely have some questions. I? Everyone answered, and I don't care who's answering. But you know so I hope that answers your question. There, Sherry.

[42:07] Okay, my there. I don't know if it was my computer or Melenz commute computer, but something froze for a couple of moments, but it sounds like trying to do something, and in this to make up for December, and then also schedule the the March Quarterly Meeting. expect to get some some dates proposed alright. Thank you. Thank you. And then moving on. This next agenda item, I'm not sure who's leading this. But we're talking about the Pop email. Sorry I can take that so we remember when it was. But whenever the pop email was set up the panel at that point in time we had a couple of, you know. They asked whether or not all panelists wanted to receive the email, or if we wanted the co-chairs to be the ones receiving the email, and they would disseminate the information to the rest of us.

[43:13] And we voted at the time to have the co-chairs be the ones that are receiving the emails instead of everyone, be flooded with the emails? But I just kind of wanted to do a pulse check to see if that is still something that you guys would like to maintain Or if we would like to have everyone just forwarded the emails. I will say that, you know. I think now my my vote would be to have everyone receive them. Just because I think that it's great information that we can. All we should. The community is writing the panel and thinking that the panel is getting the email. And I think that that would be useful for everyone but open to suggestions.

[44:04] Yeah, Victor, go ahead. Is there a way to automate this where it just happens automatically? Yeah, yeah, I believe so. I believe we just would tell it, and they would just automatically forward it to people that are on the panel. Would the responses to those emails still go through the cochairs, though, even though everyone's seeing them. or would that change as well? It's a good question. I think we we decide, you know, either if there is like select people. Responding. I think that the 2 options that had been proposed was either Co. Chair or Communications Committee. Can you give us like a general idea of what the flow of emails looks like. Like, how often do you get something? What? What are the typical reasons you get emails?

[45:05] Just curious. Yeah, so we generally will get community. So if there's a press inquiry, or press is trying to contact us, that would come through that email. Generally, it's community members. Some of them have been, you know, they're wanting to submit a complaint. And so, you know, for for that process. There is a you know, we. We forward it to sherry, and the investigation is started, or they're look, they look into the investigation. If there is one already started. Sometimes there's like general questions about how things happen. I would say, those are the 3 main things that we get. Yeah, I would say you might get 5 to 8 additional emails a month. and maybe a couple of those are questions.

[46:00] Couple of those are from the Fan club and a couple of those or just some of that, the general city stuff. so it wouldn't overwhelm you, but also I agree with the das, it's good with the intent of everyone has seen this versus only a small portion of the panel seeing it. Yeah, that sounds great. I'd love to to get them any other thoughts, feelings. Thank you. Do we want to take a vote today? Let's vote. Let's vote alright. So let's say,

[47:03] votes for. So in favor of the whole panel, receiving the police oversight emails as opposed to just the Co. Chairs. yes, yes. Votes for yes. 2, 3, 4, 5. Thank you. But can I vote? Do I vote on this? Let me say yay, if I'm allowed to vote? But okay, I think that's yeah for us. Awesome. Yup. I see you, Madeleine, and I see Milan. Thank you. Okay, so that was 6 so we have quorum there. Awesome. So we will talk to. Sorry. Go ahead, Madeleine. Do you have something else? No, your hand is still just up. No, it's just still up. I'm I'm

[48:05] and thank you? Also, because of the same community member who brought this concern up. Some other. An additional concern was that individual panel members. emails were not on the website. So I looked at some other boards and commissions, and II did not look at all of them, but my spot check of other boards and commissions were that the the different Board or commission members did have their emails up on the website. So that was something that I also was going to just alert you to that right now. The panel is out of step with some of the other boards, or some from out of step with other boards and commissions for the City of the Boulder. Thank you. Sherry for your previous work. Did your panel, members for your others like, do other cities?

[49:01] Because we're we're we're generally not compared to other boards and commissions, because we're so different. But in terms of this type of work is that pretty common that I'm not sure Chicago did not have community board or panel. Okay, no, they they do now. It's very recent. But that was not something that we really that I dealt with in my in my career. There. Milan, I see your hand back emails. I would like to have a good understanding of who has the responsibility responsibility to respond to those emails? If there, or if any of us can respond to them or I think he would be.

[50:08] Think you're frozen meal in turn off your camera. It stopped at I think it would be. Let's see. Hmm! Right? can you hear me? Okay? Sorry about that. I might have to. Get that on my phone again? I think. Yeah, I was saying that if we're getting all these emails, I would like to.

[51:10] So anyway, I would like to know, like what the I think you're you're freezing out of smolen. Victor, do you wanna jump in while me, Lynn? Sorts out her sound. See your hand? Sure, I maybe part of the question. You know who's responsibility? Is it to answer these emails? So historically in the past. a press question from the press needs to be answered within 48 h. And so it's like, Well, who's checking the emails every single day and not everyone needs to check the emails all the time. Sometimes there's multiple emails.

[52:12] and so that's why in the past we put that responsibility on the co-chairs. So it's it's it was their responsibility to promptly answer the emails and also just so we gave consistent messaging on some things. If it was just a general question, and then also due to the sensitive nature of some of these emails we would sometimes direct those to sherry or to some other avenue other than to the panel, because it was about a case or something like that. So I hope that answers some of the reasonings behind that.

[53:02] Yeah, thanks, Victor, that that that was basically what I was asking. Do we have any thoughts on who like? We would like to point people for answering. Now, do you guys want to that to stay with the co-chairs or communications. Or maybe after we turn on the faucet and they drink the water, they can see, you know, what it tastes like. And so let them get some emails for a couple of weeks and get comfortable with it, and then maybe go from there. I'm sorry, Chico, go ahead. I'll doubt. Say we maintain the status quo. I mean, it worked well. Well. We had point 2 points of contact, the chair persons and everybody knew that everything ran through them, and there was that coordinated effort, and

[54:00] responding accordingly. So II don't know whether we would have any other better system than that. I agree like the idea of like having everyone forwarded everything just for awareness. But I don't necessarily think that means we should change anything related to response. I think it's great to keep that with the cochairs as long as the cochairs are okay with continuing to have that responsibility. Because I know you guys do take on a lot so would defer to you on that. I'm I'm okay with it. I think it's a understanding, you know, in in terms of like, if we want to be the co-chairs to remain the points of contact for press, then I think it also makes sense to have them be point of contact for community. But

[55:00] again, and I'm open to what you guys would prefer. So we did vote that the emails will be going to everyone correct. And then, just looking at the time. I don't know if we want to do the discussion around the panel retreat. Start that now, or do we want to? Good after break? But after the break, okay, yeah. So we'll go ahead and take our 5 min bio break and we'll start it at 7 30. So please be back at 7, 35. Thank you. Everyone.

[56:03] Welcome back everyone so much. I'll give everyone just another couple of seconds here to come back and we'll start off with the March panel, retreat slash Meetup discussion. But is that a communications Led committee discussion? oops. Okay. no, we don't hear you. Milan can't hear you. You're on mute. Oh, you're muted. You're muted, Milan. Okay? Sorry about that. Too many gadgets in front of me. I think it could be a communication and engagement meeting.

[57:06] led discussion. But I really I'm happy to do that, but I'm also happy to let Victor are you lead that? Now take notes for sure. I know. One of the ideas around this retreat was again. Once we have the full panel on board, spending some time to get to know each other. So when we have to make some of these tough decisions that we are not doing it with like complete strangers. We've already worked together for a long time. But we haven't spent some time to sort of team build and to sort of make some bonds. And so

[58:03] we have enough meetings. So why not just have one meeting where we get to just eat food and have some community and connection, and hopefully, that will also make it easier for us to do the the harder work that we do. So. The idea was having this way back when we talked about going to someone's house and having folks cook or maybe a potluck type of thing. I'm sick of meeting in city building, so it'd be nice to meet somewhere else. But I'll just open it up to to the panel.

[59:00] Good idea, bad idea! Were others, thoughts or feelings. Just say love the idea. I don't have great ideas about where and when, but happy. We're good. Oh, go ahead, Milan. I think it would be good to meet outside of the city building. The city building is for official meetings. And it would be much nicer to meet in a place that's close to nature, or just at someone's house, just so that we make the separation between that retreat where it's just for us to get to know each other and do some team building, but where we're not talking business, so I would vote to find a separate place.

[60:03] I like that. We have a budget right? I guess another thing that's coming to mind is like, can people bring their kids right? And so can we reduce the number of obstacles and barriers to us coming together. And if we can bring our kids, and you know that could also be helpful. So just an idea nice. Unfortunately, we'll not be with you anymore at this point. So other than you guys have fun. maybe we could do something where we pick a date by next meeting to sort of finalize it. Does that sound?

[61:02] Or do you still need to do some more planning? Or can we move forward to making it official. Victor, please don't take my lack of participation as anything other than just being sick and tired of being sick and tired. I'm happy to go. I think we should pick a day picadete now, or picade before the next meeting. Should we talk like big picture options before dates like? Is this a breakfast? Is it a lunch? Is it dinner like? What do we wanna try to do it after a training session or something? Maybe we can talk broad strokes first and then pick a date.

[62:02] Yeah, I was thinking something on the weekends that is accessible. Milan. And then, Chico, I saw your hands. I think I'm being spoke to the polls. So I like the idea of having these polls and everybody. You know, we have some questions, some some options, and people select what they want. Sounds good. Thank you, Chico. in terms of the broad picture. I think that it's probably a half day type of thing. At least, that's my that's my opinion. Where we have time to really be together at least a half day. On the weekend

[63:09] morning afternoon. Doesn't really matter for me, but so it would be like 3, 4 h together. and yeah, I guess. March between the meetings that we talked about earlier spring break, and can remember, I think, at the very beginning of March. There's also the Boulder Film Festival. I don't know if any of us are going there, but, thanks to take into account as well. so Poll might be a little bit easier

[64:02] just Staff has some guidance. And if you're doing the poll, I mean, are we only looking at weekend dates, or are we? Or do you want this to include the possibility of of after hours on a work day. I think it's my my opinion is that as narrow as possible we'll probably get the best results. II think that maybe tonight we could vote on. Is it okay with everyone to have it on the weekend? And then we can do the poll on that. What do you think, Victor? But Chico? Go ahead. Sorry I forgot to lower my hand. Hmm. yeah, that sounds a good way to to move this forward.

[65:02] you know, selecting the weekend and and just narrowing it down from there. But it seems like it's like everyone thinks this is a good idea, though. Okay? Well, city staff will put together a pool of it. Sounds like weekend dates in March. and then break it down by like, I guess, morning, midday, or afternoon, II think, or or I assume that those are the the. But it's still mostly daytime that people are looking for. But that's just my assumption. That's what I had in mind. I was just gonna do. I was thinking, just morning or afternoon. But if you want to do midday as well. That's cool.

[66:38] We we feeling good about what we're putting on a poll sherry. I mean, right now, we are just going to be doing that just to figure out the time period. And then more details about how to fill that time period will have to be forthcoming. Okay? Sounds good

[67:00] alright. Oh, you are up for an Ipm report. can you? I think you're the person you're sharing your screen? Yes, I will. Thank you. Can people see the screen. Yep, great, thank you. Okay. Now, I need to figure ahead. Tab around on it. Okay, there we go. Okay. So full case file reviews completed in December of 2023 were one

[68:00] one completed and pending boulder police department disposition one and the final case review from 2023 cases. A waiting panel review that had to be rescheduled. That is one, and it is scheduled for tomorrow night. Add. as we've discussed last month. I have all of the the cases I have this report posted for members of the public to see, and so we had 3 cases that were closed this month. I classified 2 complaints. In the month of December. 2 of them were misconduct 0 serious misconduct 0 community inquiries. There were 0 interviews. I deemed one case they're all incomplete. As we said before, there were 3 cases closed, and the current or the docket current, as of January fifth, 2,024 is 13 cases.

[69:17] and that is the official report. Also, last month I met with fruit. from housing and human services the director of that. So we talked about areas where our work can align. And then I also met with the district attorney for Boulder County, Michael Doherty.

[70:01] That was mostly to discuss some issues regarding the process and procedure regarding the officer involved shooting that happened on December seventeenth, 2,023. I again, if you had. If there are community organizations that you're involved with, or groups or events where you think it would be helpful for me to have a connection, to speak, or to more importantly, listen to what different organizations have to say about policing in boulder or any issue related. to policing. I definitely am interested in, you know. getting invitations to those sort of sorts of events, or being informed in advance of events where it might be a beneficial for me to attend

[71:01] regarding the panel recruitment selection we had the training this past or 2 days ago for the Advisory Committee that has been put together, and they are in the process of reviewing applications for new panelists. And I'm just have on the agenda. The March second training. Just so, people just bring it up again to your awareness that there is an expectation that there will be a long day of training on March second, which is a Saturday halasa. Yeah. Real quick sherry just wanted to confirm. So the panel recruitment does it look like they're gonna be on time to be starting in March, like they'll be ready from our second training. That is what we are hoping for. Awesome. Thank you. If my expectation would be that if for some reason there is a

[72:06] some sort of change in the recruitment process that then that March second training would probably have to get changed also. Okay, good. To know any other questions or thoughts for Sherri before we move on to voting on cases smelly on the panel. How many applicants were there this round? There are 14 applicants this round. and if someone is interested, is there still time to submit an application? I would have to think about that. Okay, do you? Do you know of someone who missed the deadline? No, I was just wondering if there was anybody who, you know. Somebody's watching, and they're like, Oh, I want to submit an application.

[73:06] Sorry. My dog's been a terror. Then, you know. Just thought that information would be useful for public. They can always send, you know, someone can always send me an email, and we can confer. But, you know, since the the Advisory committee members are going through the applications right now. I'm I'm not sure what the answer would be. To be perfectly honest. Okay, but the official deadline has passed. Yes, it has. Awesome. Thank you. Alright. Okay. So I will move on to voting on cases. Well. okay, and just as a reminder for the public. These are case summaries, not complaint summaries.

[74:01] summaries of things like the police camera footage, the evidence, the initial investigation, other complaints or extenuating circumstances. We'll be reading out the case numbers and the rule violations, and will be voting accordingly. And everything else will be remain private to protect confidentiality. But again, as you saw at the Ipm reports, all of the details are revealed or not, all the details, but the details that are able to be revealed to the public are in the Ipm report. Okay. So the first case, we have 2 cases this month to vote on. The first one is MI. 2023, dash 34, and there are allegations against one officer. 4. Sorry. 5 allegations. Looks like they are all rule, one one for domestic violence, response, another, 1, 2 for domestic violence, response, failure to comply

[75:03] with lethality, assessment, protocol failure to attempt to locate the suspect and another domestic violence response. So if I can see, please hands yay for reviewing this case. Okay, now, he looks like I have 5. So far. 6. Correct. Yes. And I scamp. Okay? And then votes not to review this case.

[76:04] Okay. we have no votes for no. we have any votes to abstain from voting. Okay. we went for Jason. And please. hmm, okay. So I think this did not hit quorum so. or it's over. Sorry. Hold on! Hold on 1 s. Is it quorum or over half? Is the question. But I'm gonna change my boutique to vote. Yes. II I'm not gonna use my extension in in a way that would subverts the the will of the group.

[77:06] That was not my intention. So let's no worries. Thank you, Jason. Okay, so we have 6 votes for yes. Which would be forum. So that would be a yes vote to review this case. Number 34. Do we have people that would like to volunteer to review this case as of now? Do we have an idea, Sherry, if this investigation is complete and ready to be scheduled, or are we gonna be waiting a little bit longer? this. This is not anything that's ready to be scheduled. Okay. I will volunteer with the potential that I might be you know, depending on when it is. Can I see you, Lizzy? We have one more volunteer to review this case.

[78:02] I see, Amy Lynn. We'll throw you on Jason as well as a alternate, if needed. or a fourth person. We can do that too. Alright. Next case is MI. 2023, dash 35. There is. There are 2 allegations against one officer, a rule, one allegation. Uniforms, equipment and appearance standards and a rule 8 violation for conduct. I can see. Yes. Oh, sorry. Can I ask a question before we vote? So this is to officer echo 2 questions, what is a hobble cause? I had to look it up and number 2. How can you tell if something belongs to the department or not. Is there a way to identify and say, Oh, that's our gear cause we tagged it. We identified it. We marked it. Thank you.

[79:03] Yeah. A hobble is a, it's a legacy device. So it's it's kind of a nylon band. It has a like a buckle type of a loop attached to one end of it. Use it to restrain somebody's legs, they wrap it around their legs. And then you can attach part of that to handcuffs, to stop them from kicking or kind of restrict their movement based on their demeanor. I'd have to look at the equipment to see if it's whether it's department issued or personal equipment. so I don't know. It's something I have to see myself to tell you whether it's that a piece of equipment that's generally marked by the department. The department issue toggles so every officer should. It's required to have a hobby with them.

[80:02] But does it have, like their badge number or hobble? Number 6 to Officer number 7? No. An an officer could put something on there to make it like their name or something on there. But that's not common practice. Thank you. Thank you. All right. So let's do votes for yay to review case number 35. See you, Lizzie, Chico and Victor? That's 4, Milan at 5.

[81:01] Any votes for? No. Today Jason may see you and Madeline. Are you able to raise a hand? Yay, your name? Okay. So we have 7 members present. We have 5 votes for? Yes, one vote for No. One abstention. In the past. We have also had people vote via email. So we do have one panelist that is sick and not present. And the other panelist. I'm not sure, and so

[82:06] not quite sure what to do here. Adasa, I think I've seen from watching some former panel meetings. I think there have been times where the panel is either asked for more information, but was presented with a case to vote on, and instead deferred to vote until a later time. Okay? I mean, I don't know if that's yeah. There was a vote taken. I'm not sure if that's appropriate or not. We definitely have done that in the past. second. exact words for bylaws.

[83:30] Okay. So according to our bylaws, section 3, B. If a quorum panel is present, the panel will vote, and an affirmative vote of the majority is present. So that's majority for the 7 present. So we can say, That is a yes vote. Sorry my

[84:00] brain is so for reasons. Okay, nowhere to find the information. Information. Retrieval is very important. Okay, so that was a yes vote to review that case. Do we have panelists that would like to volunteer to review this case? If not, we can just randomly assign them. We have, I see you, Chico and Victor. you can throw me on that one, too, as well. Sherry or Milan. I see you as well. Thank you. Awesome. Thanks, everyone. Okay. let me just go here and we will go to public comment just getting the watch ready here for us. Oh. where did Lizzie go

[85:02] cool? Let's see, she is in the attendees. Somebody can promote her to Panelist, please. Oh. oh, there we go! Awesome. is that's backwards, isn't it? Okay? That doesn't work, hey? Hadassah? Yes. We have 2 questions in the QA. Do you think we can answer those before we do open comment. Yeah, yeah. I don't see why not? Okay. So there was a question. It was asking. what is your schedule for meeting with community slash community groups and who are on your agenda.

[86:01] That's in regards to your sherry. To your question, Sherry, about meeting with community groups. I have. I don't have a particular agenda. I have a list of community and more like law enforcement type of entities that I hope to reach out to. My, I do not have any sort of specific schedule determined as of yet. So I some of it is ad hoc. I reached out to just yesterday or the day before, mental health partners as an entity to reach out to but I do not have a formalized schedule. I don't know if the the question was to me or to the community engagement of the panel, though.

[87:01] Yeah, it seems like this. was question. This question was earlier in the meeting. Okay, so maybe for community engagement in terms of meeting with groups. You have either Melan or Victor that would like just speak to that part. I know we don't have any meetings currently scheduled. But the idea was, our next meeting was going to have less fanfare, and just try to get out there and just have opportunities to meet people. So maybe if there is an event that we're showing up to, we can also let people know on our website. was one of those ideas anything you would add to that. No, I think that's it. I mean, one of our main push this year is going to be to meet with our communities.

[88:03] and to really create a connection with them. Get to know them, get them to know us? So that's that's what we've been talking about. Quite a bit. so we're working on it. We don't have a schedule yet, though. and I'll also say, since Michelle asked the question, sherry, if you wanna have you been to Central Park and spent some time down there? If not, there's some definitely a different audience down there, and some connections that could also be made. Thank you. I'll move on to the second question. It's it's asking what is the value and purpose of the Pop having regular meetings with the chief.

[89:16] I'll just say from the beginning we were brand new, and the chief was brand new. So going back 3 years. we were just gotten to the block. And so we had a lot of things that we didn't even have in place yet. And so part of it was, we had to meet with the chief to sort of advocate for what we need. We also were both learning at the same time. and so it was that was definitely part of it. The value in that is. we were able to create some relationships, get things done. Move forward in a collaborative spirit where it wasn't sort of

[90:01] this us against them. But it was more of, Hey, we we want things to be transparent. We want changes to happen. And so with that process like, now, we have possibly a new chief coming on. And so we don't want that person to be an adversary? Because we need their collaboration to really do some systemic change and make also the the department If the chief trust us, then they can also trust us as well. and we'll add to that. There were. There have been times, so before this ordinance was voted into place. We did not have automatic meetings that were set up with the chief when there was a disagreement on disposition, and so there have been times in the past where we've used that meeting to sort of broach these these tougher cases where we did not reach an agreement on disposition.

[91:12] and someone can correct me if I'm wrong. But my understanding is that there have been past meetings with the chiefs that had like presentations by, I believe, like someone to like, walk the panel through like very specific information about like how detective cases are assigned and reviewed and approved so that it can be topical in terms of this is an area that we would really like to dive deeper into also things that gives us more access to the information that we need, and we can just, do, you know, make some of those demands directly in the. in the, in the past. whoever the chief was, they helped facilitate that versus being an obstacle to helping us get what we want and done.

[92:26] If you do have any more questions, please let us know in the public comment that is coming up next. So we'll go through and okay, so for public comment, every member of the public will be asked if they'd like to comment and unmuted to answer, the public will get 2 unimpeded minutes to comment, and if there's interruption or loss of connection, the clock will be stopped. The Co. Chair will give verbal notice of time at 20 s to end, and the city staff will mute the feed at 2 min

[93:06] panelists may offer short responses at the end of comment, and the Co. Chair will pause after each comment to facilitate alright. So let's go through and me see if I can get this to show you. All right, Annette James, you can unmute if you would like to share public comment. I'm just gonna show the timer on my screen so you can see Happy New Year couple of questions about hiring or promotion of Redfern. I'm just wondering if the pop has any comments based on his history. On that, and also Do you have the authority?

[94:00] Or is it within your preview to look into his history as it related to the Elijah Mcclain. Miss Characterization. Of that incident. and they hope that you guys will choose the answer. This is public comment that we hope get feedback. and I would also like to just recommend that to the panel that you understand the gravity of the position that you have and how that influences community in our ability to feel safe and be safe and as the Naacp. We speak out wholeheartedly and fully against Redfern, and we don't think is more valuable to me with chiefs and not with the public. so I would encourage you this panel to fulfill the mission that this originally, that this panel originally had, which was to build bridges between community and law enforcement.

[95:09] Thank you. Thank you, Annette. stop your timer. I'm sorry that was backwards. Does anybody have any comment from the panel? My! My! My main thought at this point was that we were we we got our email notice. I think it was either today or maybe, or maybe yesterday, in terms of the change. And so it was, a surprise, to say the least. definitely.

[96:03] those are. Those are. That's what I have so far. Melanie. C. Yeah, personally, I'm concerned. Chief red for or interim. Chief Redfern is coming from Your police department After spending 25 years there. I'm really concerned, because any anytime you talk about to someone in law enforcement or justice system about the Apd, they say it's the worst in Colorado. And so I'm concerned about 25 years in the worst police department and then coming to Boulder and being the chief here, I'm I'm I'm concerned about the culture that it might bring

[97:04] to the Vpd. But so I'm I'm personally watching this very closely, and I hope we all are. thank you. Thanks. I met for this question. I guess I'd also say I don't. I'm not aware that the ordinance gives us any purview to look into specific job history the way that it is set up. and I don't know. I have to look into it. If there is a way to do a complaint based on not like an interaction, but

[98:04] like a hiring practice or anything like that. I'm not sure about that. But maybe we can. Maybe we can investigate whether or not that is something that would be okay. complaintable. or it can go through the process. I guess that we that we have sorry. Go ahead, Chico. I think I'll concur with Victor. That I think that's They ask, is outside our purview what the our authority is If there are any other issues that I think need to be raised outside may maybe.

[99:02] as we go down the road with community engagement with the legacy committee. Those are things that we can bring out your hand again. Milan. Yes. Sorry. Yeah. I think that as a panel we have the at least the power of recommendation, and we have the power of our own opinions, and and I think. whether we, you know whether it's under a purview or not, I think, considering our role in this community, I think it's very important for us to not shy away from this

[100:09] is, I think we're all here to to do the duties that we're here to volunteer for And this isn't the first time we've been asked to do things outside of our League. And so hopefully, we're trying to build an understanding of. Yes, we are the panel, but there's limits to what we can do. And so we operate within those limits. Things are not perfect, and that's just sort of the way things are. So I just want to make that that clear as well. See you, Lizzie. Yeah, thanks. I think. I totally agree with all these thoughts to sort of get a better understanding of the current policies in place, and consider whether

[101:02] there's anything we might. you know, want to discuss recommending if if we find anything like that, and I also think an opportunity for us is to use our time, you know, if we're able to schedule a meeting with the new interim chief over the next couple of weeks, I'd love to hear from him on all of these questions, and I think we have a unique opportunity to to ask them. So, hoping we can take advantage of that. Well that as well. U. Lizzie. Okay. there are no other comments. I will move on to the next community member. and which is Michelle. I see your hand me allow you to unmute. Okay, Michelle, you are able to unmute if you would like to. If you have any comments for us today.

[102:04] Hi, guys. First, I wanted to say, Happy New Year's I also wanted to say that I'm I'd like for the panel and all involved to read the article, Officers of Chemical Restraint. It starts out about Elijah Maclean, but in the back, who talks about a paramedic who was put to the task of chemically sedating a woman they unnamed. They didn't name the woman. They didn't say what color I was, but I am that woman in the back of that article. We have a problem here in Boulder. I don't know if we have it anymore. But I'd also like to say I'm sad that the chief is leaving, but I hope that she has great success in her future. I'd also like to say that Officer Sterling. I didn't have any idea you'd been on the force for 21 years. Bless your heart, thank you for your service, and I'd like the panel to know that Officer Sterling was the only officer present in my incident which involved chemical sedation.

[103:04] and he was an officer I have on film telling another officer which was a white officer to get off my kneecaps as I was, already hobbled and handcuffed behind my back, and double strapped to a gurney and officer, sternly looked up and saw this officer kneeling on my knee, caps on top of the gurney, while all this, and bleeding from the mouth. and he also questioned about my chemical sedation. As it was happening. He was the only officer to respond his level of integrity. I feel safe with him going forward with him as a liaison. and I think everybody else should, including the community. I want everybody to know that Naacp has ignored my plight and related a lot of the dates and things of accomplishments that I would otherwise be taking credit for. And III feel there's like almost a reverse prejudice. I understand everybody's need to feel safe. But I believe Redfern has a different perspective to be able to bring to the table for any future things like that. I believe he was put to the task, which I don't know any officer that would have picked to

[104:14] stay on and be put to the task of prosecuting other officers. He did his duty. I believe you've reached time. Thank you so much. Okay. any other. Any comments or responses to Michelle's comments. I just want to thank Michelle for for sharing that and appreciate here being here and you are, heard, Michelle. So thank you. Michelle. Okay. Next person I have up to talk, Jude. I see your hand. Let me

[105:00] okay. You are able to unmute if you would like to comment. Yes, I'm Jude Lansman. I'm a vice President of and Double A/C people to county have been integrally involved in efforts to to from times of Zayd Atkinson to have a police oversight in the call for police oversight. Yes, Victor, I hear you. It's not perfect. We know that. What is of concern is the emphasis on communicating with the police communicating with the chief. and know that the previous panel did not ever meet with the Naacp. They did not meet with El Centralistad. They did not make it a priority to gain insight and be a voice for community organizations.

[106:07] We will continue to call for the police oversight panel to be ineffective. Organization, an effective means, and probably one of the only means for community members to feel that their voice can be heard with policing. So I would really encourage you to listen to the community. community members should not feel safe with interim. Chief Redfern. Our branch did a lot of research meticulous research because we were called out Redfern. So please take us seriously. we W. It's not we. We're not intend to be adversarial. We intend to be a voice.

[107:04] Do I have 2 s left? Thank you. Thank you so much, Jude. Do we have any panelists that would like to respond or comment. I would just say that when we were doing when we went on a moratorium we had 2, maybe 3 public meetings. To get comment. We've worked very hard to bring in public voices. We had sent out many press releases. and I do acknowledge that also, previous to those meetings we only had one meeting and and maybe 2 years but we are definitely done things in the past 6 months that we have not done before.

[108:00] and so II just want to acknowledge that we have increased our community presence in the last few months. If you happen to to miss those meetings that we had. Thank you again. we have one more community member. We will allow you to unmute yourself looks like we have Min min Glenda. You can unmute if you have any public comment for us today

[109:15] we're speaking you have the ability to unmute yourself if you would like to comment. I'm gonna take that as a note, for now you do have any other comments or questions. You do still have the ability to unmute while we wrap up our meeting alright. Well, thank you. Every one, for being present to night looks like we will be finishing right at 8 30 to day.

[110:02] So thank you for your time and thoughts and input. And we look forward to seeing you at the next meeting. Thanks so much. Everyone. Thank you. Thank you. Have a good night. Thanks, everybody. Thank you. And good evening.