September 8, 2022 — Police Oversight Panel Regular Meeting

Transcript

Captions from City of Boulder YouTube recording.

[0:02] Oh, just in time, Martha. Good timing, Hey, everyone! Welcome for September meeting. We do have a packed agenda tonight, but we will start, as we always do by acknowledging the Iraq code, You and Cheyenne tribes, traditional custodians of the land on which the police oversight panel and polder police department operate, and we pay our respects to their elders, past and present. I'd like to welcome you you all, and any public who might watch this after, or tune in a bit to this meeting. Thank you for being here. We're going to make a lot of really important decisions today, and um, I guess, since we don't have the numbers of public. We can skip over that for anyone watching this after just a reminder, if you would like to. If you are a member of the Boulder community, and you need to submit a complaint of an officer in the police department.

[1:05] We can contact us at our web address. That's Boulder, Colorado, Gov: That email goes straight to the co-chairs of the panel. Um one of which is me my my other co-chair, Ariel Amaru is not with us this evening. So i'm flying solo to bear with me, because i'm very clicky and eyes all over the screen. But let's read through our agenda for the evening. We will start with approving our last month's meeting notes, and then we're going to go through. I'm going to give a brief presentation on the selection process for selecting our panel members. That is also going to include our vote this evening for the two nonprofit organizations to serve on the selection

[2:00] Selection Committee, and then we'll pass it over for committee reports to the Community Engagement and Communications Committee, then the Governance Committee and the Legacy Review Community Then we're going to get um A report from the Monitor, including a report on outcomes of case reviews and our Monthly Case statistics. We will also tonight, then select ah cases to review that have been recent. Ah! Complaints to review that have been recently submitted, and then we'll open it up for public comment. At the end panel. Members be advised. We will also have an executive session this evening as well, so we will stay on after once. We've let the public go for a quick update, else wise. If we are, all see Clicky for feeling good, we will just jump right in. So for approval of the meeting minutes Joy sent those out to us in our email. Does anyone have any proposed revisions to the minutes that we're taking for our August meeting?

[3:02] Just give that a Sec. Anybody hands cool, could I? In that case i'll call for a vote to approve last and month's meeting and meeting notes just by a show of hands, all in favor of approval. One, two, three, four thanks much. The A's. Have it meeting minutes approved and documented for history. So up first tonight is one of our most exciting, stressful, and wonderful parts of our Come in work. And so i'm going to share my screen with you all. Give me just a second joy. Do I have? Yes, I do. Thank you so much. See, I don't have to look at my notes just presently to my end.

[4:09] Okay, you'll see that All right. Thank you. Boom: Okay. So uh update on panel selection. So, as you all know, uh R. Al. Joey and I have been uh working hard on just a lot of fact, finding out uh all, all, all all of our due diligence of what's in the ordinance? Um, making sure we've checked in with all of our constituents and uh, some updates with you all um! And now it's really time to hit the ground. We're running with our two thousand and twenty-two new panelist selection, and so just to kind of to review some of the key factors that we are working with. Here we are looking for nine nominations to send the city council. That's five new analysts, and for alternates.

[5:05] And so for our selection committee. This is straight out of the ordinance. We are looking for two representatives from nonprofits serving board, and we're going to be voting on that today. We're also going to need to put two representatives from our panel onto that selection committee, and then the selection committee of those four people makes the final determination of the nomination. So this is their process. This is their evaluation and their determination to make who the new panel members will be, and then to send those nominations off to City council, for we do need to have the panelists in place by the end of the year, and so that's going to mean meeting a December one due date, getting the memo to City Council for a December, And so that means also working around any holidays and end of the year academic year challenges. We also have committee leadership related to recruitment, and we're going to be getting at all this and some other sites, or we have our our governance committee, which is charged with orientation and onboarding. And then, of course, we have our community outreach and Communications Committee, which is ah ah responsible for improvement communications, and We have started some communications along those lines,

[6:18] but it's also time for us to start following up with those committees for some more intense study and work. We also want to be really mindful of our current panelists workload. We do need to continue our our routine case reviews. Of course we have the Naple conference coming up right around the corner. Thank you. To Dasa and Martha and Joey. We'll all be attending that. We call them conference. Um. We have community outreach plans as well. So we have very full place while trying to um to get this work done. And one of the real positives, though, is that we want to benefit from the lessons and work from the previous recruitment cycle. So the implementation team has done this once before, so we can benefit from that we can build on, that we can do better and go a little bit farther, while also not We're stretching ourselves.

[7:07] And so tonight we're going to be voting on the two nonprofits to have representatives on that selection committee, and we also need to approve this plan and this timeline, because we need to prepare our public facing materials, and we need to hand the selection committee the structure it needs to move forward. So this is really a final final chance to get feedback in before we approve this, and then hand this this this process over to the selection committee, and so the timeline and I want to emphasize um. We did share an initial draft of the timeline a couple of weeks ago. Um! After some discussions, and primarily our discussion with Shawn Rae Um did make some adjustments to this timeline. So this is the most updated timeline final timeline for our plan for um for the selection committee. And so tonight we're doing that selection process by tomorrow panelists you want to serve on the selection committee. Um, please email ra A Ai.

[8:04] And then by September twelfth we're going to do an email over votes to vote for those two panelists that will serve on the selection committee. Um. And then we will be reaching out to those nonprofits to make sure we've identified the two representatives from the nonprofits to serve on those on the committee, and then we're going to kick off the selection committee with the Co-chairs and Joey um, and hit the ground running. Come on, friend uh Oh, sorry skip ahead tonight. Uh! So then, for our recruitment and application period uh, from September twelve to fourteenth. That's about fifteen or five weeks. We're going to be building the recruitment outreach and application, uh, which is going to include a lot of public communications, our website all that business. And then we're going to launch for improvement communications to start bringing people in, and then our actual open period for receiving applications is going to be September

[9:00] one fourth through October the fourteenth. So that's three weeks, and we'll also plan on having ongoing and recruitment communications through that timeline as well. So that's really we're going to be working on communications from the twelfth through October the fourteenth, so i'm up to pretty solid work. Ah! For application consideration process. Then from October seventeenth to twenty eight, the selection Committee is going to review applications and select its top candidates to continue. Then from the October thirty first, No, November seventh. We'll do the zoom interviews with the selection committee. Um. I put zoom interviews in there, I should put a the selection committee does get to determine how his interviews should be held in the most accessible and inclusive way. But since they were zoom interviews last year. We are still struggling with the pandemic. I am putting that up. There is an option. And then on November the fifteenth. This is new. We're going to talk a little bit more. One of the recommendations we're making is to have an actual in-person event with the top candidates, the selection committee and the panel to help inform the final decision process, and i'll talk more about that in just a second,

[10:09] and then finally, November eighteenth the selection committee will have its deliberations and selection complete. December First, then, is that memo to council, and the fifteenth is going to be our final vote on the nominations. Ah, so sorry, you know i'll walk in part of my screen. There we go with the Panel Selection Committee and the Monitor. You know. How are these three components going to work together? So first of all, just to review this election committee as the final determination of nominees to city council. They get to make that decision. They will also update the two thousand and twenty one application criteria to what they want it to be. This year they will run the consideration process, they would determine how panelists will offer feedback each stage of the consideration, and this is an important one. We would request that the selection Committee create an efficient and structure to receive and consider pretty substantive feedback from all of us

[11:07] outside of the committee, to make sure that if if we want to assist and give you and give opinions in this process, there is an opportunity for us to do so, and then we will Also there will also be check-ins with the co-chairs about coordinating other efforts in the panel, and so that the process of feedback anything they need from the committees, the coachers will make sure to facilitate that process. Just to make sure we keep the ball balls in the air, the ball's rolling in the air and rolling through the air, and i'm looking for the smiles just to make sure and make sure we're moving along So for the panel we will be responsible for carrying out recruitment communications. We will participate as we're available in offering feedback uh to the selection committee, and we will be preparing on boarding and orientation materials for the new panelists. So there is substantial work for us to be doing while the selection committee is doing its work throughout this process. And Then, finally, the Monitor is going to help, will work with city staff as needed to coordinate our communications, but otherwise we will not participate in the selection of the panelists, and this is in the

[12:20] important. The Monitor cannot participate in that process, and so we need to be cognizant of that, and proceed accordingly. We have some big pitches for you. That are fact. Finding here's what we were thinking. This first one is Um, the co-chairs and Joey Um, After a great conversation with Shawn Ray, who was part of the implementation last year. I I think all of you have met. We came up with this idea of the recruitment consult, and considering our workload, considering the amount of work that's going to go into this selection process, we're recommending that we hire a recruitment consultant

[13:00] support the selection committee, and this person would have handled the technical processes, the whole process of the selection. They would provide their expertise improvement in evaluation processes. However, they would not have any voting rights on the committee, so they could not determine process. They would not have a same saying evaluating anyone. It would be a technical role just there to support the technical side of the process. And specifically we'd like to recommend Sean Ray and Joey's already reached out to sean rain, and they're very excited and genre. They built and ran the process in two thousand and twenty. That brought us all here. They have just the most extensive expertise evaluating applicants. Joey and I got locked bunch with genre, and my my mind was just imploding with just how the how much knowledge and and passion he brought to the it brought to the process in two thousand and twenty, and he was part of the original implementation team that formed us, and he just really demonstrates exemplary leadership and advocacy, in my opinion. And so that's our first first big pitch is is to bring genre into this process to support the selection committee. Um, Joy. I was going to just pause there to see if you had anything to add.

[14:22] Yeah, I just wanted to point out that the the reason John Ray, is our recommendation, and why he's such an attractive Ah! Applicant for the our candidate for this position to to help us out of this he runs admissions, processes for you, for Mary's universities, and so he it's very excuse me. He's very familiar with like how to ensure all candidates. Excuse me, get fair consideration. Very robust school consideration. Um, and make sure the entire process is fully documented, defensible, and transparent. So he has all the right experiences and expertise um professionally, but also they have the expertise of the the past with the panel and knowing how the implementation team operated. So

[15:11] I just want to add that part of it of their background. Thank you. Yes, and just a quick clarification, I do believe. Sean Ray's pronouns. Are they them just for for future reference for all of us. And so uh big pitch number two. Hmm, uh, And this came this idea. We can't take credit for it it was genre. Ah is an in-person event with the candidates, and this is something we need to decide on now so that we could make sure anyone applying could get this on their calendar. And basically so when we were appointed, we did it with applications and zoom interviews. That's how we were evaluated for this year. What we like to do is a third step, which is this event: where the panel, this current panel,

[16:00] the selection committee and candidates, can. All the top candidates can all meet together, and we can run some activities to gauge how they interact with each other, how they contribute to teamwork. One idea was to do breakout groups to work on a real policy review. So something we've talked about in the last, you know the last two years to bring that to them and and see how they work the problems together, and to use that information to um to help us make our decision. Uh. And so then some following action items on this uh the Co-chairs and the community outreach communications, chairs. We need to meet to discuss communications. Plans. I know uh Tisha already has some updates for us this evening, and you already have some emails out uh from Taiisha about that that we can work together on uh the co-chairs also need to meet with the governance chair uh to discuss onboarding, and all those tasks and for both of those I really want to emphasize um for all panel members that we want to make sure.

[17:00] This is an all hands on deck initiative, and so we should be expecting to hear from the chairs of these committees asking for our assistance, asking for our buy in, and ready to jump in, and this work, so that this work doesn't fall entirely on them. To accomplish. This is for all of us to come together, and also coming up. The coaches are going to be calling for volunteers for our next panel co-chairs, because we want to have that selection completed in time for the finals forward with that so that we can introduce the two co-chairs, two new co-chairs that the incoming panelists would under. Basically and just a reminder that the co-chairs are one year Arial and I are coming up on our our sunset days as panel co-chairs, and we are retiring in this um elsewhere that's that's the pitch. That's the plan. Why, don't we take a minute if anyone has any feedback or specifically, if there's questions, let's start with questions. If anyone has clarifying questions,

[18:09] just raise a hand. Um. Oh, sorry. Go for it, sir. Yeah, no, thank you, sir, trying to follow directions. It's not. It's not really in my real, but um questions about your two pitches. Um! We have budget to pay. Uh shaun, right? Yes, or do you want to? Yeah, Yeah, I just wanted to make sure we weren't asking for? I think a long, fair level of compensation. No, it's It's a going his going right for Yeah, and for pitch number two, which is de facto work. Are we setting aside budget if we choose to do that one to compensate all people.

[19:05] Um, who can. That is a rum up question. Yeah, we even asked that. Yeah, Joey, it hadn't come up. We didn't It didn't even come up as a it's an idea. What would that look like potentially? Do you think I mean? I don't know, probably equivalent to one month of a panelist. It would be the easiest. But what this looks like to me is, does anybody have to have a job interview, or they ask you to do like eight hours of work, or whatever um that's That's what this looks like to me. And since we do, in fact, compensate us, we should do the same. In my opinion, you mean for the panel members or four of the applicants. Yeah, because this is a de facto work. Yeah, like in season.

[20:00] I see the point. Yeah, I would think we have the budget, for it depended on how. Yeah, we would have the budget for it, I was going to say, dependent on how many sort of final applicants we're looking at. But I think either way we we could do that, I think that would be allowed. I'll just have to double check with with my supervisor. But if folks agree with that, I can look into that. For sure. Yeah, Any follow-up thoughts y'all on that. Thank you, Sarah. I We had not considered that that's fantastic. So what what about the panelists. If they are going to be involved in this, they're going to be spending the extra time, too. I think that'll be part of my ass. This is the original. Well, I mean I would support it. But I I think,

[21:00] giving somebody a day's worth of work a month. A lot like that seems like a big difference. But it's a good idea any any way, especially if people are like needing to find babysitters, or whatever to participate in whatever that we're doing right for me. That also raises the question. Yeah, Chico. Mentioning panelists, too, is what that means for the two representatives our nonprofit organizations. They're participating in this process. They're supplying their expertise in judgment that beyond the capacity of a volunteer role as well, Let me bring that to my supervisor, and see if

[22:00] we can, we can pay all three entities. It sounds like the days of exploitation are over. So yeah, why don't we? Why don't we leave it there. Then Yeah, Jo, If you ask Amy. And if you want to loop yeah, me and Ari L into that, too, we'll look into it. That's the way Attorney goes any other questions clarifying questions. Non clarifying questions are also applicable to um great So in that case any feedback or recommended changes. I really like the In-person at the end, because I feel like you can only see so much via zoom. I agree. Yeah,

[23:03] I think an alternate view of the in-person event, because I know we still need to do it. Is it like y'all? None of us know what we're doing on purpose, and I think the discussion that that needs to maybe be had about the In-person events is what is our goal with having people prune that that they have special the versus a point of view that maybe we may be looking for different points of view, which is what we did. We just told people what we um versus um. You can have a good conversation which can introduce some biases. Prove that you have certain skill sets which can introduce some biases. Um like I like the idea. I am afraid that we will be maybe over indexing on finding people who have

[24:07] special skill sets and versus potentially aligned with the mission of providing X Y. And Z for the community. Yeah, I think that's really well taken, and I think in particular, I think part of it is removing, removing the expectation of proof entirely from the process. And so you know, I think the if I can, I can channel What I learned from Sean Ray is that, you know, and actually having gone through this process myself. And so this is actually. This is how the arts program I was in. Its you. Boulder found its ultimate studio class. This is kind of an exercise after applications, applications and interviews, so all those traditional

[25:07] markers the in-person opportunity is also the opportunity for people who who struggle to jump off the page or struggle to jump out in an intense interview process, to really shine, to show their skills in a group setting in a collaborative setting, where they may not excel in like an interview. And so I think that's all to say, Sarah, to your point is that you have to make sure all three of these these steps are working together, that we are looking at the total whole of a person, and I think what I what clicks most for me was in the end. This is the expectations that you know. Sooner or later all all ten of us have, or eleven of us have to get together and accomplish something, and to make that a little less of a surprise after the commitment, to see what that looks like together. I think it's the kind of the big picture, and I think your point is taken. So we have to check our biases, and we have to make sure we're not going into that process.

[26:12] You know, with the checklist that we're going in it with the open mind of finding the right grouping of eleven people that best serves this community. Yeah. Fair points, I mean, I think whoever picks, you know, volunteers to be on the selection committee will be, you know, cognition of like we're not picking pedigrees where this is designed to be average Joe in here, coming in and ah, and hearing a situation and and informing the people's perspective. So I'm: I'm hopeful that that'll be managed in the in the long run of it.

[27:03] Yeah, the Dasa. Thanks. Yeah, Um, I will say this definitely does feel more like an orientation event as opposed to necessarily part of the interview process like I love it. But I I? Yeah, I feel like it might be a lot and be like, because we're gonna want to do something. Then, when when we have people on the on the panel, and like it's. And to me it sounds again. It sounds like an orientation of that. We can use this as a as a chance to work on a policy if that's what we're talking about and do

[28:10] a real life orientation in terms of here are, Here's the rubric that we use. Here's how we would go through the process. Here's the things that we would consider, you know. You know. I think, part of that, too. Now that you say that, Padasa, is. It occurs to me, you know I don't think we want to take up too much time like a sit and listen listen to the panel. But I think that an all that is a good opportunity for us to give candidates a better idea of the panel and panel work at least an overrun orientation to help them decide if they want to accept if we make an offer to them. And so I think to me it sounds like A: Yes, and yeah,

[29:00] yes. And yeah, I like the idea of bringing in the consultant. So that sounds great. Um, you know. Just thinking about the number of interviews. Um! Are the the number of potential applicants. Um, yeah. I just bring in the consultant, you know it sounds like the best idea on the other additional steps. You i'm not sure about that one. I do like the original process. It was nice being able to go back and see. You know everyone's individual interviews on the website. And um,

[30:02] yeah, we just did the best of what we had, you know, at that time. Yeah, Yachika. Yeah, I like the idea of bringing in a consultant as well, and sticking, just adding on to what I just said, I think going through she goes. I'm sorry, just really quick to go to to make sure I understood. Are you saying then, that though, that we would still keep you would still like us to keep the in-person final part of the application process.

[31:20] I think I heard just in person discussing what the panel does. What the expectations are that, leaving it at that, and all those other exercises, and all that can come into the orientation phase or stuff like that, I think specifically to clarify what the idea of the exercise was specifically evaluate how candidates work with each other, and so not as an orientation exercise, but as a an added tool. In the final decision. I'm. Tisha. I see your hand, too.

[32:03] Thank you. Um! I would agree with others, as it relates to the ah consultant, and it also speaks to just a larger question around. What is our budget for the panel, and what other ways can those budgets be used? I think there's been a several pain points that could have benefited from additional ah technical and administrative support. So that's just something that I think, having some more transparency would be helpful. But in this case, I do think, just based on the workload and current loads. Um, and complexity of running that kind of product process that, having a consultant would be great, and having somebody who has expertise from running it before having them on our team is wonderful. I do have some concerns around just the time and availability for the an in person for the last final row of interviews Again, It also depend on how many candidates I can easily see that going thirty, four hours. Um! And that's in addition to our committee work, the main work. The case reviews um, And so just very mindful about that. Perhaps we can do it from a a similar perspective, as the ways we do. Case reviews where we just try and get a couple of panelists who maybe aren't on the committee to be in that final interview,

[33:22] so that it's not everybody having to try and coordinate around our schedules. And again, it really is continued upon how many final candidates there are. But my preference would be to support the selection committee that includes two co-chairs. And you know, to um yeah, just to create more flexibility, considering the current workload. Thank you. Okay, cognizant of time, Any final thoughts.

[34:03] Okay, let's do this in pieces. Then, as we go. So first things. First of let's take a vote on approving the timeline, and i'll make a caveat that does not mean approving the final event proposal here on this slide, so that does not include this. No, no, November fifteenth day, but the rest of the timeline all in favor of this time. Line hands up for me. One, two, three, four, Thank you, Sarah, and that's a majority. So the aids have it. So the timeline is approved. Big pitch one. Let's start with just a recruitment consultant period. So plan to move forward with a recruitment so consultant hands in the air to prove Thank you one to do that, and that's majority has it. And then hands up um to um. Just Daniel. Note that i'm using the hand race sign because I don't have the solid Internet.

[35:09] Yup, I see it. Thank you. So next up, then, is specifically Sean Rae as our recruitment consultant this year and up, and that's an approval. Thank you so much, and then next up, then, is the big pitch two, which is an in-person event, which would need to be for our timeline. There, there's an all on a wriggle room. It is No, it would be November fifteen. So hands in the air if you would like to do move forward with the in-person recruitment event. Sorry the In-person. You can have the other goods, Hey, Daniel I have a question. Is it possible to consolidate the monthly meeting and the interview in one event or one session, so that

[36:05] i'm just trying to get some economies of that. Is that at all possible, or does it? It does a timeline not allow for that? I would say no, just because cognizant of how we use our public meetings. One I don't, since we have so much coming up in our meetings, and also there's going to be more coming that in our executive session I would say No, that is not an option. We would want to separate the State. This is specifically a weekend date as well. Um, We've used traditionally as our training, so it was carefully selected as an option. Um! But we are looking at November fifteenth and saying, You know what that's not gonna work. Um. Then then we should put it down on this so hands in the air for yeah, November the fifteenth. Is it the Wednesday launching calendar

[37:07] How did we Miss November the fifteenth, which is the second two co-chairs and a monitor, and one missing calendar. Sorry we were looking at, because you want to do Interviews this November the thirteenth. Thank you for that. Catch that or sorry November the twelfth, because the thirteenth is right. So we were sorry. Thank you to Dasa. Yeah, that was November the twelfth. So looking at that Saturday to make sure. Then, the idea being that we would make sure the selection committee would have plenty of time to get our feedback from both the initial process and this one and I'm just triple-checking that while we're sitting here

[38:01] Okay, while you're doing that, So i'm not available on that that weekend. I have a work trip, so we will approach panelists. It will we need to get. I was just asking where we need to get quorum in order to make that date work. Is that what you're asking now? Yeah. So we'll we'll approach panelists availability, I think, later on this. And so, if we need to look at another date. Let's do that, November The twelfth is tentative, and we can let the selection committee do the final process to make sure that? Well, no, because that's right, because we have to publish this in the application. Wouldn't it be like selection, like I think that's a different time. The selection committee people each get a vote. It's a different thing. Isn't it correct. I think we'd run into trouble if a member of the selection committee,

[39:05] so The biggest thing is that the selection committee, I think all four would need to be there, since they all have to make the decision. We would not all necessarily be there, since we don't have to make the vote. And so i'm thinking then we can set November The twelfth is a tentative day, but when we reach out to the selection Committee on the twelfth Um. The first thing we'll need to ask them is, is what date that event could happen if we approve it. So let's do this for a vote to keep moving, since it is already seven hundred and fifteen let's show, by show of hands approving an in-person event, with candidates with the final date to be selected, but knowing it is going to have to happen the same week as November the twelfth just to stick in the timeline, Holbein's hands for approval.

[40:02] One, two, three, Oh, sorry that was right we got three boom not approved, so we will not do an in-person event with the candidates. So that's that, and want to be to do. Give me just a second to make that note. I think That's it, then. So that's the selection process. Let me take down. Yeah, Marco. I I just want to understand. If i'm like, that date is going to happen. It's just going to be virtual like That's it. That's my understanding. Or is that wrong? So? No. So they'll. So then we will just not do that third step it'll be the same. So you're all there. Applications and zoom interviews. No opportunity to evaluate how the candidates would work together before the final decision.

[41:09] Okay, I was just wanting clarity. Thanks, Martha. So, Okidoki. So next up we need to choose our two organizations. Give me half a second to switch documents. So um! It's just a review for anyone who watches us later. We did do a full media release that some good media coverage two, in my opinion of our upcoming recruitment cycle. We also contacted over thirty Ah! Nonprofit organizations here in Boulder, and we had three organizations respond in the affirmative that they would like to volunteer and send a representative to serve on the selection.

[42:07] Um, And so the first. So i'm just going to read them out, and i'm going to also read out. I'll just read their names. You all have reviewed their missions and everything. So the first is Boulder County Branch of the in double Acp. The second is Bridge House, and the third is Amy Stag, and to choose our two organizations site What we're going to do is we're going to go one by one. You all are going to get two votes, and you can only vote once for organization, so you will vote one vote for each of the two organizations you would like to see. We do need to do this in tissue didn't see my email last week. We do need to just do this publicly, not in a secret ballot. This has to be open, and so does anyone have any questions before we move to voting.

[43:02] Sorry. One more thing are you? All is not with us Tonight, however, I will be voting as her proxy, just to make sure that the entire panel is involved in this. So if there aren't any questions, and you know which two organizations you're going to raise your hand, for we will start with. Let's go in reverse order, Amystad hens in the air. I will also vocalize that Ariel would like to vote for on his side. So that is one, two, three, four, five, six votes total joy. Are you tracking those votes? Thanks so much. Second is Bridge House hands in the air. I will also a proxy for Rl. For Bridge House. So that is one, two, three, four, five, the

[44:04] sir. That's not a hand correct, thank you. And so that's five for Bridge House. Next up is Boulder County branch of the Naacp, hands in the air. That's one, two, three, four, five, me, which means we have a tie Bridge house in the older county branch of the Naacp. Okay, which we had not prepared for. Um, I think in this case, then, we're gonna narrow it down to those two, and so we each get one vote. So what we can confirm then, is Amy Stad is one of our nonprofit organizations very excited, so we can check that off. So now i'll just give you a second to think about it. But we will do a second ballot then for Boulder County branch of the Naacp and Bridge House. Everyone gets one vote.

[45:12] Yes, Sarah, you have a question. Am I allowed to speak on behalf of what I? You know? Maybe pitch one over the other. Are we allowed to do that? Yeah, that's um. Why don't we take? Yeah, Why, don't, we just get a sign at a time. Let's take five minutes just to talk. Yeah, I just need twenty seconds, So I didn't actually want to vote for the indo-a-cp. But I think it's important to vote for the end of the Acp. For those of you who have been around for a long time. They are. They push our buttons, and they challenge us on purpose. So, while I was not happy when they were really engaging, I still think we need somebody engaging that hard to ensure that

[46:03] that folks that they represent are being hurt. So just that's it. I can give some background to so bridge How Amy Stad was a volunteer last year, but was not appointed to the selection committee. Um, I believe this is Bridge House's first time volunteering with us, and then the Boulder County branch of the Naacp did participate was part of the selection committee, the last four rounds for all of us. Martha, I saw your hand next. Um. I I think it's important to attempt to regain our working relationship with the end of Acp. Especially because of the way that article that came out mischaracterized. What actually happened with the voting decision.

[47:07] And um, we we have many um affected people of color. There's even been some of the contentious decisions and some of the review items concerning people of color. So I think it. Their lens is very specific and valuable, and that's all That's why i'm voting for them. Thank you, Martha Victor. I have your hand up next in here. Yeah, I would just say, based on the impact, for you know, the people in Boulder County the Born in the way. Cp. Has been here since two thousand and seventeen. The Bridge House has been here long before that. It used to be a small building in a church

[48:01] in a parking lot that serves so many people. They really connect to a voice. They're doing real work and boulder um also in Aurora as well, really affecting. You know these same populations in um, you know a more tangible way. Um, you know. Speaking of Sammy Lawrence right? He was supported by um. You know that community as well. So it wasn't just the noble acp that supported the You know this homeless community and bridge houses as part of that safety net, and for them to engage in this way is different than just handing out blankets. So i'm i'm glad to see them, you know. Willing to sort of step forward. Thank you, Victor. I I saw your hand go up, but come down, so I just wanted to double check with you. Thank you. I appreciate that. And um just really resonating with the the comments that both Sarah and Marsh Martha shared regarding the and um, and at the same time. Really. Also, thank you, Victor, for just sharing a little bit more. And and yeah, And it was also helpful to know. I think there is value in having a group that has been through the process before.

[49:20] Um on the selection committee. Um, I love that Amazon put their head in the ring last year, and weren't able to make it. But I already expressed interest, and now I wanted to do it again. I like the precedence that it sets for other organizations that you know you do once, and take me all we get it and keep trying, and so just wanted to lift up those thoughts as Well, thank you. The other final thoughts or questions.

[50:00] Okay, yeah, Hadassa, I see you just uh Ah, I hate this. I wish we could. I wish we could have all three, because, honestly like it, it feels like it would be a complete trifecta. It would be amazing. It would be amazing. But yeah, I I think I think, that the value of having ah an organization that has helped us, and has been through this process before. Um, I think, is for me personally um to too much to pass up, and I I really hope that the Bridge House, you know It's ready to do it again, because we're going to need to do it again. So you yeah, I just is there an opportunity to maybe get them all and remove some panelists? Well,

[51:00] no, the ordinance is very specific to nonprofit organizations and two panelists. Um, I said a question, though it doesn't it prohibit us from having three or more. It just says at least two right I mean i'm just curious. You know it. Ah, I can double check. But when we met and looked at it it was, it was specifically two and two, but it can be one second just to triple check. No, I mean i'm sure that that's what it says. But my question, was it doesn't prohibit us from having three like it doesn't prohibit us from at, you know we and we could even go to city council and say, Hey, we have three really strong candidates that are representing three communities that are heavily influenced by the work that we are doing. Is, can we add on it. It doesn't hurt them and it, you know again it it let the this is the first time they've ever, even, you know, legislated or regulated something like this oversight panel. So again, similarly to us having to expand the council, the panel from our nine members to eleven,

[52:09] they didn't anticipate how much you know this was going to be, or the transitions, and so to have more panelists that were going to help us. They were very amenable to that. They meet every Other Week, You know. I'm. Just curious as others have indicated. It really is a beautiful intersection, and I would hate to lose that perspective, because we know I just I I like the the three. It's a it's an odd number. It's, you know. And again, this is where we are right now. So you know that would be. That would be, you know my hope. So maybe it's both. I'm happy also, and understand we're on a tight timeline. So if we have to vote tonight with the contingency, if we are allowed to add a third, that's great; but if not, we can at least move forward and get. You know the thing that we need to get done tonight.

[53:02] Thank you. Yeah. So our ordinance is later. Selection committees shall be composed of two members of the police oversight panel and representatives from two local nonprofits selected by the police for oversight panel. And so it is specifically to all say to add panel members. That was a six-month process. Ah, to to accomplish, even if you know. I think city Council doesn't meet um. We'd have to get on their document, probably for their October meetings, so that would set us. We would not need our D, so that proposal would mean we would set back recruitment to uh next year. Okay, We Then we go into the hall. We have that, and there's no Here's a spicy question, and I'm I'm. Ah, leaning on our spells different in the In-dele a Cp. Who gave us what for about the word shall versus something else it doesn't say maximum to

[54:01] it, says two, and that is not a cap. Can we just go, rogue, and invite them all? What are they going to do? Well, I mean, I just would love to get a lawyer to get some legal advice on it. I mean, I understand that we have to make a decision today, and i'm fine with that. But i'm just wondering if we could have legal. Take a look at, weigh in, and if they say, Hey, yes, that is, you know there's nothing that prevents you from inviting another organization from participating. Perhaps they don't get a vote in the State, but they can be a part of the corporation, right? There's a lot of ways that we can be flexible and adapt and still get that expertise and input without disrupting the timeline. Thank you. Yeah, Chico. I see your hand. Ah, we we can leave that to next year and explore that for next time around. I mean, this is a learning curve, so we know that we have more people who are interested in coming on board, so

[55:11] maybe we can kick the con down the road and exploit for next year. Yeah, Because I think the advisement is if we if we try to test the limits of the law. Yeah, we might be fine. If we're not, it challenges the legitimacy of anyone who's selected by that selection committee, or participates on that committee or us who is appointed to follow the rule of the ordinance. And so I think that's if it is a serious consideration. I think we want to do it right. Um! So that it does not become a challenge to our legitimacy or the public trust that we are going to follow follow the law. Um, because it is two. It's not three. It's not more than two. It's not up to two. It's not less than two. It it is specifically shall be composed of two. I think that's pretty.

[56:02] I think that's pretty specific. I'm no lawyer, but I can't imagine there isn't a lawyer who couldn't build a case on on us, choosing three and not two. It used the word shell sorry. Say it again me, too, I mean that's different than it just saying to. If it, if it if it says it shall be the most. It shall be composed of two members of the police oversight panel and representatives from two local nonprofits selected by the police oversight panel to it. Yeah, All right, then, let's not go, rogue. We don't have time to get it for you done. We got to go. Yeah, we can totally table it for a future, something to make a potential amendment to add a third, especially because uneven numbers cause problems exactly in voting items on your mind. I think part of the yeah. That was something I can tell you. Joey, Ariel and I talked about as well as the challenge of the even number. I think part of the advantage of even numbers. Is it?

[57:09] It forces consensus. There isn't a tie breaker. The group has to come to a decision, you know, and so that's I think that's one advantage. But that's not to. It's not to just how incredibly challenging that's going to become when it's time to make those deliberations. It pressurizes consensus. Exactly. So i'm going back. Um, so it's. Return to my last, my page. Sorry. Our vote between boulder and counter branch of the N Icp. And Bridge House any final thoughts or questions before we hold that vote. I'm looking. I'm checking the chat. Thank you. It means so. Hands up, and and again I will be proxy for Rl tonight. Um. Those in favor ends up Boulder County, or let's start with Boulder County Branch with naacp hands up.

[58:08] I see. Thank you. One, two, three, four, five, and then hands up for Bridge House. One proxy for Ariel and Sarah. That's three. Thank you very much. So our two nonprofit organizations are going to be the Boulder County branch of the Naac and Amistad, and so next steps we'll be reaching out to them to identify the member who will represent animal mores. Remember, you have until tomorrow to volunteer to serve on the selection committee, and so please get on that, or I will be coming to find you, and then Ari and I will be following up with an email for all of us to vote on which panel members will serve on the selection committee, and I see I see your hand. Yes, uh, unfortunately, I have a meeting conflict in room to jump off the call, but I was trying to make sure that I was here for present for this vote uh my! Our co-chair for the communications committee, and Victor is ready uh to provide our update and together feedback and uh other things. So I apologize. Uh, but um, thank you so much. Um and i'm excited to work with. Uh

[59:24] for the selection committee. Thank you so much. Have a good night, everyone. Bye bye, coming back to our agenda. Oh, yeah, um. So next up, then our home, like pair of our hair of our chin. So first off committed a report from community Engagement and Communications Committee. I will hand it over to we're actually, you know. Should we go ahead and take our five minute break? Now it is seven hundred and thirty-four and I see tired eyes. Why, Don't, we go ahead and take five. Let's be back by seven hundred and thirty-nine. Please. Thank you.

[65:35] Maybe in here. Yeah, I think there will. We'll go ahead and start with an update from the community engagement and Communications Committee for me all. Just let me share my. Can you allow me to share my screen, or can you share the it?

[66:25] I think everyone can see that. Yeah, I think it's better. It's It's it. Okay. Um. So just And and we even all this out later. But just for time. We i'm going to go ahead and jump to the highlights. So we have our panel recruitment, calendar.

[67:00] We've already proved that. But that is there again what we read what we really need for now, because these two, so we have the Fall Community engagement event. We have a draft plan for that event. So if you want to give feedback on the draft plan, please do that um soon, and i'll go over that later, and the draft plan is for our community outreach event. So we still need some people to respond on some of the dates that we have listed. We did choose a couple of dates and some proposed options, so we do have this date of Thursday, September the twenty second um from the time to six, thirty to seven, thirty Pm. If you are available, you know, please email myself or to you, show to see if we can add some more to that list. We're looking at the Public Library for this one. We have a contact there. We have a meeting space. It's a central location. There is parking, there's security. There's restrooms, and you,

[68:08] you know our costs will be covered for using that facility. We have a timeline of one hour for that event. So, making some time for a mix and mingle in the first twenty minutes or fifteen minutes, creating a statement where we just have a brief intro or overview of the police oversight panel, and presenting that out. I was like maybe you had two a two-slide presentation or one pager, and then, having ten minutes for discussion on Q. And A. Then twenty minutes for just open discussion from anyone from the audience. And then in closing the we're talking about ways that people can become a panelist, and how to apply um How to come to one of our committee meetings, talking about sharing the information on where you can find our monthly meetings, and also advertising our quarterly meetings with the chief. Also during these public meetings, as we wrap up one hundred,

[69:05] continuing to give people ways to uh engage with us also in this meeting, you know we want to create some like collateral so like having a one-pager um, maybe having some sort of pamphlet. We're also going to need sort of name tags and a sign-in sheet the budget concerns. I don't know if food or beverages can be. There's a budget for food or beverages. There's a direct asked from Taiisha going forward. If there's a way to provide child care or anything for you. The city can provide for childcare or youth activities that'd be awesome. Again, thinking of location sorts of accessibility being able to provide us in Spanish, we're having interpreters. And then just the use of technology. So is there anyone who is able to add to that Thursday September the twenty second In-person event?

[70:02] Or does anyone have suggestions on the proposed in-person program event program? Attend. Let me. I'll get back to you. Again. We'll send this out, just you know, for anyone any additional feedback. Um! That's all I have, Victor. Of course i'll I'll be available, and the various requests that were were raised in terms of ah food that's absolutely doable. Um, child care. I think that could be doable. I I think I've heard of other departments when they've had meetings in the evenings like having someone to provide some sort of a space for children where they can watch people's kids when they come to the event. So I think that should be doable. What was the third one? The third specific?

[71:01] How do you interpreters for that? That should that should be doable as well. Yeah, any costs associated with running the space. That's that'll be taken care of as well. So i'll be working on that if you are in that holiness awesome sauce. In that case, then I will hand it over to a dasa for a governance committee just for clarification. We was there any that event that up at that outreach event is definitely happening. Or did you? Were you all going to take a vote on that, or anything? Or should I? Just? Ah! So that that's happening and start the preparations for it, you know. Maybe that is something we should. I don't think we need to take a vote on the event itself as an and and and you all happy to hear thoughts on that and any precedent that I said. But maybe we do need to take a vote on um on the budget.

[72:08] It would probably be sound for us to make sure just to give up the the th A thumbs up to spend the panel budget on yeah, to authorize it. And so maybe what that is. We probably should get a number on that before we take that vote, though, and that's not to say that we wouldn't vote for against it, but just to make sure for full disclosure that we're voting for the full budget amount any other any thoughts on that I dust. I'm. Also looking at you like governance-wise. Does that make sense that we'd vote on the budget, or should we vote? On the whole, I don't know. I mean I guess we haven't really voted on any budget things I know right at all, and so I don't know I don't know if I want to set that precedent personally. I mean I I can see

[73:03] voting on whether or not we want to have the event, but I think the reality is that we assigned the come, the committee to do that work, and they done that work beautifully for us. So I I Those are my feelings. I'm writing those feelings. I think that makes total sense. He's any other thoughts, I mean. I think it's been over a year, and we haven't had one. So we need one that I i'm all for it, depending on what it is will depend on if I can go. But yeah, I think we we need to, and as quick as possible. I think in that case, then, um, you know, Joey and uh victor um, and we can get a maybe just to loop in the co-chairs on any any budget emails just to have us in the loop on those um just for due diligence uh in case anything should come up. So we just know what's going on. But

[74:10] yeah, I' i'm with you. It's that we give the committee. We've given the committee, the the power to do these things. So let's power made power done all right. I'll take that as a authorization to get planning on it, and we can include that in our press release. That'll come out early next week when we announce the application process, too, so people will know that that's going sack. Thank you, Joey. Yeah. Probably thinking of some other ways to advertise for it to get people out. But you all spread it amongst your network suits and invite people to come. Okay. In that case, if there are any other thoughts with community engagement and communications, then I will hand it over to Hadassa for governance.

[75:03] Thank you. Um. Okay. So there there were things that we had planned on proposing for voting which have since changed a lot, so we are not ready to vote on, ie. The guiding principles, and so we will continue to work on those, and we'll have depending on what the plan is for the October meeting. We will either present the guiding principles at that October meeting, or we will have them posted or available, first to the panel for draft approval, and then we would post it to the public um for any comment. And um, then make a final draft approval at the moment for that. So that is the process that we're looking at. That is where we are depending on timing. It'll either be something we discussed or something we make available, and then

[76:08] move forward from there. So that's where we are with with those the orientation and training piece. Um, I will let like we. So Martha and I are going to the training this week, or sorry this upcoming week, and so that will give us a lot of resources. Um and um, we will. We will continue working on those, and so having a deadline in terms of when we are planning on onboarding, and all of that is very, very helpful. Um, and we will make sure to take that into consideration for sure. So um, basically, we'll look at, you know, gathering the tools that we have so far what we used. Um. At some point we'll definitely look for some input from people in terms of what they feel. They would like more training on as panelists um, or feel that they're lacking training alone. Um! And then we can. We can kind of go from there so

[77:13] and then I think that's pretty much it. That's pretty much it. No public, nothing else for governance, Martha. Am I forgetting anything awesome? I will hand it over then, to Martha, then for Legacy Committee. Well, um! We didn't meet last month because we all went to the screening. Well, some of us went to the screening. This is not who we are, and that was a great reason to not go. But we have received the data. I totally have not looked at it, but fully intend to look at it the week while i'm out. Since I won't be

[78:04] doing things. I did have a question of like how you wanted us to collect information like where, if you wanted us to stick it in a particular place from when we are at the Nicole event, and I am in the process of talking to panel members individually about kind of a action Slash training model project based on the movie, the and the contents. So just stay tuned for that, but other than that, we are supposed to be meeting the fourth Thursday of every month, so the next one will be the twenty second, and Martha, in regards to your question about the materials to get from the conference, and sort of where to put them. What they usually do at this conference is hand down a flash. Drive

[79:09] um with all of the presentations and outs any kind of training. So it's a really valuable flash truck I want to say last year they had got a little more advanced where we had it available online. But then you could request, I think, the the flash drive, if you specifically wanted it all on a flash drive. So. But but that's sort of the best way to get it all in one place. Then we could just take that and put it on the share drive. Essentially, so. Everybody has access to it. But you should all. But you know you'll be. You all be attending a number of different panels. There's usually like three panels going on at once, so you'll kind of divvy up your time to cover as much as you can take your own notes, and then bring those back as well, and you can kind of supplement all the other materials you get with your own

[80:00] presentation of sort of what your impressions of things were, with what things jumped out at you, and with new ideas were sparked from listening to people. So it'll be a It'll be a lot to to bring home and share with everyone. But I think I think, Hadassa's suggestion or point about taking a lot of that content, and using that to think about what goes into the orientation process for new panel members. That's really smart. So we want to make sure we collect all that information for that purpose, too. So i'm super happy that that you're all going to be going. Yeah, one other kind of question. So I mean, we can. We can make this decision. But I figured we'd get some input from the or I would like some input, from the panel. Um, just because you know, I am representing you. Um! And so uh, there are a couple of topics. But there's four different topics. There's uh specifically police oversight. And then there's jail oversight. Um! And

[81:02] some of the time you know those there's oftentimes we're picking between those two. And so I guess my question, you know I would like to go to all of them, and I feel like we should go to all of them. But i'm also wondering if we should focus specifically on police oversight, because that is our purpose, and that you know topics related to that. Or if yeah, that's a good question. Now, my thoughts are this: you're going. You're taking your time. We trust. I trust, your judgment. You're making the right sessions in both your judgment and your interests. Come Come back with more be smarter than us, and come back. That Co. It, Snake

[82:00] would say, since the jail is run by the sheriff's department, and they haven't made any agreements for oversight kind of stuff that the police stuff would be better. I was going to mention two, Martha, and how to to To both your questions. I wonder if, even maybe, if you all are up for it, I mean not to just force it on you of giving a presentation to the panel, you know it could be short enough to fit into a monthly meeting, or long enough that we treat it as a new training session. We haven't done a um. We talked about it doing like internal training sessions of training each other on topics, and so that might be a good kick off again. That's a that's a big way to put on y'all um, but maybe something to think about, and maybe even something to uh we could, you know, to kick off with our new panel members in January to also give you a time

[83:00] in space along with everything else, to Yes, some kind of training presentation. Yeah, I i'm definitely envisioning. We can do that. We can, I would guess, Probably like booking a little short training session afterwards, you know, probably little bit more of like a Here's a little thing of what we learned, and then we can kind of talk about different things. But we yeah, i'm. I'm sure that there will be enough information that we will learn, just based on the topics that they are covering, that we would like to have probably some dedicated time to discuss. Yeah, The other thing i'd say about the conference is the other valuable thing about this conference is not just the content of the material you get, but it's also really key as a networking opportunity to meet other oversight volunteers and practitioners all over the country and connect with them change

[84:02] contact information, and when you have issues come up in the future, you have people around the country to to connect with and and have the conversation with. So just to encourage you to both meet as many people as you can. As well cool beans. And so eight o'clock. So, moving right along, i'm going to go ahead and hand it over to Joey for our monitors report. All right, Thank you. Chair. Let me get my screen pulled up here all right, So, as you can see. Since our last meeting we had two full case Val reviews that the panel did.

[85:00] The Department has provided responses, or concluded those, and came to the determination on both of those. So we don't have any any cases that the panel has made a recommendation on that are still sitting with the department right now. We do have four cases that are waiting panel review. We hit a little bit of a a roadblock with our our last big case review that most of you are on separate from that one. We still we have three others that are ready to go. So, depending on when we get that that big one rescheduled if that's rescheduled like next week, or within the next week or so, that'll just be our next one. But if it ends up being scheduled two weeks from now. I may try to work in one or two of the other cases that are awaiting. Just so we don't get too far behind. But let's get a date for the second. The review of that big case. So we had these two cases, as I said, completed over the course of the past month.

[86:04] Am I Two thousand and twenty, two zero. One, m I. Twenty, two, zero, one, three, one zero. This was the rule, five police authority and public trust. This involved a trespass suspect being identified, or someone who had reported called in nine to nine, one one reporting someone t trespassing in a motor of a vehicle trying to get into a vehicle. The police arrive on the scene question someone who somewhat missed the description, but the clothing didn't, and so there was some question discussion around that aspect of it. But ultimately it was determined that that individual had just gotten off of work. He was not the suspect. They were able to confirm that through talking to his, the the manager, despite the fact that this was interesting, despite the fact that the

[87:00] person who reported it Actually, I did it. They did a show up identification, and this in this individual identified the person said he was one hundred percent sure. There was some concerns there, though, because that person was perhaps intoxicated. So the officers didn't didn't trust the the identification, and did further investigation ultimately concluded that this was not the suspect. The individuals boss ended up filing a complaint, alleging that the stuff was due to the individual who stops last name being Hispanic, that the the stop was complained that the stop was two hours Stop was actually about thirty seven minutes. But anyway, the that was the case. The panel by two to one vote exonerated the officer on the Rule five allegation, and the Department's determination was also exonerated. Um one three. This was a a traffic accident. Um between an African-american woman and a white woman. The accident report specialist that's a non sworn personnel. They're not they're not sworn police officer, but they are employees of police department.

[88:16] He does not give a ticket to tickets to the white driver, who the white female driver, who was at fault, the black female driver said to made the statement: I guess it depends on who you are, and the Ars responded. Yep, and that was the end of the the in the interaction. Ah, so obviously that was a concern there. Um about where the officer just acknowledged being making a bias decision in the interview the officer indicated that he thought he met with what he thought she meant was, It depends what officer you get, and he thought she was referring to, like the officer's discretion to decide whether or not to issue tickets. And so that's what he was responding to when he said, Yeah,

[89:05] um. So there were two allegations there, the unbiased policing and the traffic accident response essentially the failure to issue the tickets the panel recommended, not sustaining on the on the essentially the bias policing allegation, and they they recommended to sustain on the traffic accident response, the failure to issue the tickets. The investigation did demonstrate that this officer had a history of not getting tickets. He was supposed to in a variety of different circumstances, with a variety Um, at the department, agreed with the panel on. Chief agreed with the panel, did not sustain the biased policing, but did sustain the traffic accident response. Panel recommended a one day suspension and the chief whit with a five-year letter reprimand, and with a performance Improvement Plan for the Officer that's where we ended up on those in the month of August. We just had one complaint. It was a regular misconduct complaint. You have that to review tonight to vote on on whether to do a full-case file Review. I would just point out that this is.

[90:14] This is one of our lowest numbers in terms of complaints coming in monthly numbers. It's not totally surprising what we saw in terms of our the pattern of complaint, the trend in the complaint numbers the um it's something that I've seen consistent in a variety of different jurisdictions, and right after the holidays in January, February we see a spike, and we saw that here in boulder, and then at the beginning of the summer we see a spike, and we saw that in, I think, in May and June we saw a spike in our numbers here. But then, towards the end of the summer you often will see a drop off and a number of complaints, so i'm not sure fully why that happens. I think There's probably a lot of different explanations for that, but it is. I have noticed that pattern consistently in a number of different jurisdictions, those sort of ups and downs of complaints.

[91:03] It probably has something to do with school being let out in school being going back in, and maybe after the holidays there may be more uh confrontations that occur. Um! But we did have four inquiries in August so far in September no complaints or community inquiries, but it's been a short month in the sense of the fact that it was a holiday. I started off with a holiday currently seven open cases that concludes my of the monitors report. No, you're You're still muted, Danny. I'd rather just sit here and talk to my clients. Uh yes, thank you, Joey. Uh panel members. Next up is our uh selection of case for you, or Case. It's not just the one this week. So Joyce, and that oh, sorry, Martha, I hear him. Um! I just had a quick question about the second one.

[92:01] Um, because I don't want to be through that the recommendation and I gave that we needed the data, not only on like how many people who didn't get a ticket and broken up by race, but we needed the data on the people that did get a ticket, and having that broken up on race to determine whether or not it was racial. I didn't see that captured on there like we need the flip side to be able to determine that in the way that that looks it looks like it. Just a flat out no where it doesn't happen. So so you're muted. Ah, I got you. It's right there, Daniel. So just to understand what you're requesting some tracking of individuals who were contacted. But did not. Yeah, it. It looks like the information we were given is that is, the people who didn't get a ticket did not get a ticket, and having, and how that was broken up by race. But we would need the people who did get a ticket,

[93:10] how how? That was broken up by race to fully get a comprehensive view of whether or not racism occurred, I think I understand. Yeah. So we in the spreadsheet we have. Whoever got tickets or didn't get tickets or went to Juvenile Court, or adult card, or whatever the outcome was the majority of them. You did not get ticket, so it may, if you if you looked at it. It may have looked like there wasn't anyone in that list with tickets. But there were some of those in that in that spreadsheet where they received the violation. Um! They were a minority, I think it was. I don't remember the exact number, but it was a smaller number um who actually received violations. I'll have to take a look at it. Is there a column for race for for that on that spreadsheet

[94:01] There was for that the accident one like I'm talking about the accident one that one didn't have any information about juveniles. Um: the accident One: we will. Actually okay. Yeah, we didn't have any anything on people who did give tickets, and I feel like, and I and I say that we to get to give an enter. We need that information as well, not only who didn't get a ticket, but who did get a ticket, So if you you pull over five black people and all five black people get a ticket. That's it, is you. To me discretion is exercise for five other people, and they're all white. And yet that's right? That's the problem. Yeah, let me take another look at that spreadsheet. I wasn't looking at it with that question in mind. Let me take another look at it and then connect with you offline, and we'll figure out a way to get at that. Okay? And if it's not captured, I think we need to capture it. Yeah, that would be our recommendation as Yeah, it's a after that,

[95:01] Thanks, Martha. Okay, panelists. So we are looking at Case Mi: two hundred and two two over two, One and ooh Sorry I skipped a step. Um. So for any members of the public who you after uh tonight, since we Don't have anyone online right now? Um! Just a reminder that these are case summaries and not complaint summaries. So these are full summaries of anything currently ah related to a complaint so that can be police, camera footage, available evidence, initial investigations, any other complaints or insinuated circumstances. So we're not just reviewing a summary of the complaint itself. We're looking at the big picture. Um, And also we uh this is a private process. We need to protect those involved. And so, as you saw uh just now with Joey is once we've uh reached a conclusion in these investigations and these discipline uh recommendations. Then we read those out in our public meeting. But right now we will not share um the information of that case. So panelists

[96:09] looking at case Mi two zero, two, two, two, one. This is two allegations of a rule, one violation, specifically customer service value and report writing. I'll give you a second just to re-familiate yourselves. Then panelists. If you want to, you put a hand up to vote for doing a full review of this case, hands in the air for thank you. I see one. I see two, I see three, thank you, and then next up those we do not want to review. Hands up,

[97:01] puts one that's two victor. Are you for or against. I wanted to vote to to review, to review both, and that's four to three. So we will review this case, and that's the only one this month. Ooh! Easy um. Next up we're just going to double check. We do not have any members of the public so normally we would do have a comment, but we won't so, for now then, um! Before we move any other business panel um before the public, before we move into executive session. All right, Joy. If you want to stop the recording, then, easy as it's that, and then shut down public access.