October 28, 2020 — Housing Advisory Board Regular Meeting

Transcript

[MM:SS] timestamps correspond to the YouTube recording.

[0:05] till six three Just reminder to let me do my quick intro on public meetings. Before an open comment. Yep. Great. Alright, it's six Perfect. Are you recording. I am we are recording Awesome. Perfect. So I will call this meeting to order. Let's run through roll call. Danny Teodoro is not present. And Julian Boone is also not present. But Terry Paul most Yes. I see you. Okay. Well, this is always so awkward because I can see you. But anyways, Mason Moyer Here. I see. Me. Here I am, Chuck. Here and Judy, what

[1:00] I'm here. Beautiful. Perfect. And, you know, before we move to the agenda review last last meeting, I decided to introduce a land acknowledgement before each meeting and I'm going to continue doing so. So I'm just going to start this meeting with the land acknowledgement. So we recognize that the city of Boulder sits upon land within the territories of the youth. Cheyenne and Arapaho people's furthermore we as a board recognize and acknowledge that 48 contemporary tribal nations are historically tied to the lands that make up the state of Colorado. Will move to the agenda review and So he has to read the meeting rules first before we start. Oh, have anybody In the public don't have anybody from the public. So do you guys want to, what do you See if someone shows up for public comment. We can do it. Okay, go ahead, Charlotte.

[2:00] Can I do the minute, sir. Yeah, we don't have any public comments so you can just move through the agenda. Okay, we're just going to approve the minutes the minutes from last meeting, though, right. Sorry, I was confused about what's going on. Um, so, can I get a motion to approve the minutes from last meeting or are there any amendments that need to be made. Yeah, I'm sorry. Did you just say an amendment to the agenda. For last meeting. Are there any Changes for Agenda from last meeting. Seeing none, and I moved to approve. The Minutes from September 23 2020 years had meeting. I said, All in favor. All right, passes unanimously and I do see that Stan details here from HTC. I'm not sure. Stan hoping to speak during open comment.

[3:07] Or I think Stan just wants to be available. If you have question about the Hang on, I think may was trying to get into the room now. So I'm wondering if she wants to just or sorry if they want to speak. Okay, so I'm going to go ahead and It looks like she's in now. Yeah. I can unmute Yeah, maybe. Hoping to speak during public participation or do you just want to listen. Can you hear me. Yes. Okay. Thank you very much. I'm really interested In next steps that you guys decide on regarding tiny homes for homeless. Just, I would. I don't want to know questions just I want to know what happens next to see by my volunteer.

[4:02] Awesome. Okay, great. So you don't want to speak, you know, three minutes. Okay. Okay, great. I'm going to put you back on me at then Can I, can I just ask a question of me. Okay. Are you the main said, I know that. Yes, high may have, you know, Hi, Judy. Cool may may have. Can I have your last name for the record, please. Failing P as in Peter H. E. L. A. N. Thank you. Beautiful. Awesome. Thanks for joining. Okay. We will move on to matters from the board or under Agenda review is where I was. Sorry, I just totally Miss agenda review my sticky note was covering it. Sorry. Totally. My bad. Yes. So there are additional documents that have been submitted that and that will be referenced and Mason, I'll let you speak to your document.

[5:09] Well, Jay. Are we supposed to request. Is it emotion that I make, to move to a review of the Joint Committee processing report content and And suggest were to add it or do I just ask or how it was process. It can be as formal or informal as you want. I mean, my suggestion would be just to include it as part of the meeting summary for this meeting. But if and if the rest of the board agrees, then we'll just do that. Um, I'm not sure what what you mean by meeting summary I know in matters from the board. We had comedian project liaison reports to be done first, if we are you suggesting just tacking it on to that. I mean, if you want to discuss your

[6:01] Would your descent piece. Is that what you're talking about. Yeah, I mean, it's up to the or I assume it's part of the agenda when we're discussing the board and committee liaison. I thought it was specifically the written case that you submitted include that as part of the record. Right, I tried to clarify with Corey earlier and I think that once we Put it into the agenda, it gets applied into the notes, if I remember correctly. So that's one agenda adjustment. I'd like to make. And the other one is Under our November listening session with housing insecurity. I'm not sure if it makes sense there or doing it somewhere else. But I'd like to add a discussion of board member participation. And something along the lines of, like, a equitable division of labor, anything like that, just so that we have a conversation about what's happening.

[7:02] And We do have two board members out. So I'm not sure if that makes much sense to do today, or if we want to table that till next time. But I think having the conversation. Charlotte, you brought it up during our, our meeting about Potentially talking about all of us taking on committees or leveling up to workload. So it's not just on your plate. Right. Um, that's something I was going to touch upon during five see um but i i think that that should be another agenda item for It stuff because there are two members that are out today and I received an email from Dan. He's saying that he would help me for the listening session but I I don't know. I'd like to see if we can have maybe have a brief discussion of participation and

[8:00] You know, collective engagement during this meeting and maybe have a broader discussion with the entire board when they are present at forthcoming meetings. So I think we can have. Does that make sense Mason, like if we discuss that tonight and then again have a discussion with all members are Well, agree. Okay. Okay, great. And then, so we will. I'm hoping that we can add to the agenda that will be, I guess it will be added to the Minutes, but Then amending this agenda to add Mason's document as protected like a bullet point under the Are you hoping to add that under the committee project liaison reports. Yeah, it doesn't matter to me were added. I just Yeah, just like it being a part of the Google Docs. Cool. And one other amendment I had was, I noticed that there was there was the report on tiny homes. But then there was also the report on

[9:06] Safe parking and um, I just wanted to make sure that both of those were documented. In our agenda, since both of those are kind of equal weight right those are both work done by the Joint Committee and I'm only seeing that the tiny homes. And report is reflected in this agenda. So is there a way to add just add that, you know, can we add the White Paper on safe parking to, like, I don't know. What do you suggest it, Jay. It's added considering that'd be Great. Perfect. That's all, that's all I had for that. And then Jay, did you need to chime in on your piece for public Public Yeah. Hope you had something now. It's not doesn't doesn't want to speak. Okay.

[10:02] Um, well, if everyone's comfortable, then we can move on to matters from the board a minute early not six minutes early. Um, so, first of all, discuss the committee and the project thing is I'm reports, the Joint Committee and I'm So I'm hoping that we can Discuss both process and then you know the actual substance of what's included in these reports, you know, the, the, the Joint Committee is put in so much work. Into research stake holding interviews, you know, it's pretty amazing. So I definitely want to hear from representatives from that that committee. But first, I just wanted to kind of discuss process a little bit, um, you know, sense this committee is comprised of representatives from have

[11:00] And from HR see essentially making the Joint Committee, you know, an entity within each board, it makes sense to me that the boards would need to consent or provide approval for anything. That is then sent to counsel so prior approval. And this, this is not a comment on about the substance, but more substance of the reports, but more about process and how the committee functions in relation to the boards. And I'd asked that we perhaps have a discussion about the process and we develop a better process for relating those reports to the boards and what does that look like What is the relationship between us, you know, sitting members of have who have been appointed by city council and come from a very diverse you know Ray of backgrounds. How does, how does our role. Contribute to it all these, you know, the work that the Joint Committee does. So I just wanted to kind of open it up because I know there were a number of emails that were provided from Members.

[12:09] And in response to the email that God sent that these reports would be sent to counsel without our reviews. So I just wanted to open it up and get folks as opinion and I'm On kind of that process and then we can move into substance. I'm surely Danny or Juliet submit any response. You know, just want to make sure, sometimes people send in when they're not going to be present. So I just didn't Juliet did send me a note the choose really looking forward to eating. Great. That was Perfect. So you may want me to start Perhaps, sorry, I saw, I saw jack and Mason. Icon based and emails. And so I just kind of wanted to get everyone's thoughts on what the process was and how we can move forward, maybe improve and

[13:00] Yeah, jack you want to go ahead Yeah, I'll go ahead and just get started. Because I think I was part of those Emails That just had concerns and about the process and how it essentially I don't know what the right term to use is but avoided coming back to The full board and From my perspective, I, you know, and I've, I've talked to Judy about this. We've had some discussion today on the phone. You know, I felt like that was not an appropriate Track I may be wrong on that and the board may feel that that's okay, but in general, I didn't see anything that said that the report was going to go directly to the Council. And I think it's just important that we get all eyes on documents.

[14:04] Kind of, for the reason that Charlotte said that we were a diverse group of people with different viewpoints on these and I think that it's it's important that if we send something to counsel. Effectively with our name on it, then we should be looking at reviewing it. So that was my concern about the process, I think as Charlotte mentioned I that's only about process for me at this point and not necessarily about substance. I'm not digging into that. Yeah. And yeah, it was a lot of work that went into those and that was greatly appreciated. But I just I just felt that that was a step that was missed You want me to Go ahead. Um, so I think everybody got my email about my descent in both process and content and I'll save comments on the content as well.

[15:06] But my three points on process. Whereas, that there is a reasonable expectation by our board to receive the report before it was submitted to city council. For three years now, whenever the city council has sent us work on. We've for subcommittees and those subcommittees have done the legwork. And then it comes back to our board. For discussion on format and Structure and how we want to submit it to Council so It had been standard practice even when city council has sent us something we've never had a committee forward anything directly on the disregard for the process I felt like maybe a weaker report diminish the political capital that we had worked on since January to get to our table.

[16:01] It makes it more difficult for individual have members to others and advocate when They're not involved in the process. And to me, bringing it back to the border, because everybody on the board, an opportunity to work through the thinking to see where it's at, and how we want to form and submit our information. To me, I had explained it to the joint committee that it's like painting a brush and educating people taking them on the journey because what we know to be true about have Is that people are watching us. And they're learning and they're going along with us. And if we just show up with a report or we don't have a discussion about it and it leaves a lot of our community members out of it. So I think, and as well as our board. And although I commended the Joint Committee for caring so much that they wanted to expedite the work I worried. This process was hurried harried for the purpose of both making the annual letter to counsel.

[17:02] And avoiding descent, either within our board or from the community wants this information got out if we were going to support it and put it forward. So I feel like we circumvented. A lot of our own process to put forward a report. That Is, you know, like I said in my descent. I'm a natural advocate for this and I care about this information and I care about all these gap measures what i'm not for is us doing it in a biased or A hurried pace, just because of some type of a construct Thanks Mason. I'm wondering if Judy and Stan, since you're both You know, members of this committee and would, would you mind sharing your thought process on you know why you felt like it was necessary. I know, Judy, you kind of

[18:05] delved into this a bit in your email, but would you reiterate kind of why you felt like it was important to send this without bringing it to the board. That would really, that would be great, actually, just to get your thoughts on that I Think I'll start and then stand can chime in. But first of all, I really want to say, Charlotte, you are great at doing this because this is a difficult situation for everyone. And I think you are great at the way you're handling it. So I just want to thank you Good job. I'm So, I believe that the committee felt that they were tasked to do the research and come up with a report and report was of such depth and breadth and took so much time that it was the joint committees report and that Council on have because this is the first time we've had two separate entities work together.

[19:05] And that I'm sorry, and that have an HR see could each make their determinations about what to do with it. And those determinations might be, they could say This doesn't work for us. We're going to write a new one. We're going to start all over. We're going to accept it rejected do whatever we can use it this way we can use it that way. But the this is the outcome of the report that the Joint Committee did and the Joint Committee did spend An enormous amount of time on it and checked in with each other, wrote you know like if I would have a meeting with someone, I would write up a report about it we would discuss it at meetings and we were very Thorough about going through all the information and being an agreement and writing drafts and going back and forth and all that, as far as the US sending it to Council concurrently maybe Stan will speak more about that, but I am certainly sorry if it

[20:02] Upset people and going forward. We really thought we were just doing what we're doing and going forward. People can set up a certain process, you know, have can say this is what we want it to be HR see can decide what they want it to be. And if the two can get together and what they wanted to be, that's how it is. Otherwise, the way the committee works, you know, might change but I guess that's all I want to say I'm very eager to be talking about the report itself and and thanks. I'll just let stand. I don't know if you need to unmute Stan To let him talk needed at this point. Thanks, Dan. Yeah, and I really do apologize if it was not meeting people's expectations around process because You know, be we are two different groups, and I suspect to what I was saying to my group, as we came up with this was maybe somewhat different across the group's I had always seen this as an informational report done by a committee that any recommendations and so forth would come from either the Commissioner, the board.

[21:12] I think there were there were there, you know, the outline here was there be eventually five reports. Ones that are not here are on unsanctioned camping that one in terms of information that would be needed for A public and scooting ourselves to make decisions and some talking about regional coordination and so there are more things to come, and we need to be sure we're on the same page for that. I guess, in addition to just seeing this as being informational I i'm not sure what the notion of a Board or Commission accepting it. I know that a report like this it would take a long time before as a Commission, we ever wrote a report. That that the people would say, I accept this report.

[22:00] And it takes us meetings to write a letter. And so it was never intended to be perfect or complete it was meant to be a attempt to answer a console had asked us to do. Remember, this was initiated in by the emotions that came from the to the condition and the the board and console. Ask us tend to respond to a very specific kinds of things. And so, you know, I saw this as a console request for information. I also knew as you know that as soon as we get it to you guys, or did it are over to the HTC, it would be a public document. The fact is, staff sits on both of these, they would receive these things. Adam was already on the committee as this thing was being produced. And it's so some console would have it, some, wouldn't there be indirect reports of it. And so, you know, I thought Getting it out there getting it to be able to be discussed was very important and and that is not to say that are a lot of things to be considered and certainly

[23:05] Any recommendation doesn't come from this committee this committee was providing information. Certainly, both of the groups would want to have considered a discussion of the report and other information before they were to make recommendations, because only recommendations could come from. You know the formal boards, but this was just an information document and attempt to get as much out there as we could to people in a timely fashion. Thank you, Sam. That's, that's helpful. I'm Mason, did you want to follow that. I also have some questions, but You can look for to go first. We may be overlapping Okay, yeah, I guess. My understanding, just continuing with this process. My understanding was that These reports to be drafted and then the board would be able to see them not to meddle intensely with the work of the committee, but just to provide broad

[24:10] You know, it just input. Right. And I am personally of the opinion that we should be providing counsel with the well, not, not to say so, these, these reports are really, really detailed and wonderful and I'm I really appreciate the work that you all have done this is not i'm not I'm not trying to, you know, hold anyone to Hot, hot flames here, I'm just saying that These should be really well developed documents before the judiciary board that is Council sees them and makes decisions right and it doesn't make sense in my mind for the Joint Committee to provide these reports and then for have to provide A tweak diversion. It's a little bit different but is similar, because we disagreed on the first one I just think it makes us look for lack of a better phrase bad. It just doesn't make us look like we're put together, um, you know, I

[25:16] We want to be taken seriously as a board and I, and as the Commission does as well. Um, and so I just, I'm wondering if moving forward, there can be a way that The board members, you know, commission members can provide. I mean, I'm sorry, stand your board your Commission can decide, whatever they want, but for Hab If we can you know have a have a meeting where we can provide feedback and So that when you submit one report that 12 developed and we don't look like we're kind of like hastily throwing different reports together and tweaking a word hearing, they're providing a header here and not there.

[26:00] No, I fully understand that and You know the discussion with nature. See was really the difference between information and recommendation and Okay. This was the start the discussion that you perceive as being important discussion to have the information we can to everybody. And then people can say I need more information on that we need more input on these factors and that before we can reach a recommendation. And the thing that comes from HR. See, it would be a recommendation to console and that ought to be well formed In an ideal world, we might actually have agreement between the board and commission on what that recommendation was Though that mean I can't even imagine with our staggered meetings that we come up very comfortably with that within several months. But, but, but this was meant to be the information to start the discussion. You're talking about For that well form motion to eventually be made that would be a recommendation. So that was at least my thinking on it and and that was because of my own discussions nature. See, and I do apologize. We hadn't been coordinated across this but this once a month meeting makes it really hard.

[27:08] Oh, totally. It's, it's very challenging to coordinate, especially when there are these sunshine laws, etc. So I, I commend you for what you've done and I'm so I just wanted to clarify a few things. So is etc planning on Producing recommendations or because my my reading of this report is that you actually provide recommendations in these reports. So in both of these. There's actually recommendations that the committee makes right. So what's the difference between what's in these verses what What HR see would Provide There was more summary of our findings that was recommendations. This is what was working for other people. These are the types of things that we think Might be feasible here because console asked us very specifically to see whether or not there could be a way that they didn't have to put resources in

[28:05] That some of these ways of dealing with populations are underserved could in fact be met. And so we were trying to do that. That's quite different, I think, than the notion of what we might come out of HR see and I hate to a volume guess whether or not they want to make a recommendation or not. But, but they might make a recommendation which basically says, For example, in terms of tiny homes that we would like for the console to all not support this, at least not stand in the way of any voluntary group with finding the tries to achieve this, you know, following the Longmont model. That may be a recommendation as simple as that, you know, don't suddenly make zoning laws and other things stand in the way of a voluntary organization trying to achieve this. But that's, you know, that's the step down the road after a lot of discussion, I suspect. Sure, sure. No, no, that that makes

[29:02] That makes sense. So is this, then a working report or like a like a working document that will be there will be multiple iterations. Is it, is that right, am I understanding that correctly like that you'll Put it like we're done. We're done with our report have can have as many iterations, as they want an HR see can have as many iterations, as they want. It will then be called the hab report. Not the Joint Committee report and anyone can do. I mean whatever have decides to do you know by majority or consensus or whatever you want. That's what, that's what will happen. So is the Joint Committee yeah jack I'll hang on one second. Is the joint committees role, then, to provide the springboard for the boards and commissions to then take that research and do what they want with it. Is right is, this is, I guess I'm just, this is a new committee. And so, you know, it's worth discussing what what is the relationship between the committee's and the committee, you've created the Joint Committee and the board.

[30:10] Well, obviously it wasn't as clearly defined because since we were running on such a different Level than you were so obviously that you know the process was an established, and I think we all think it's great that there'll be a process established. I'm not sure how that will be done or how it will work out or whatever but but this Yeah, so I don't know how to say it any other way that joint committee looked at this as the Joint Committee report and I pretty sure we didn't say that have an HR see agreed we just said the Joint Committee believes, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then Since we're two separate groups. We just thought it'd be way too confusing for have an HR see to have to come up with an agreement together. And so, for example, HR see Could go with this report exactly as it is have could change it completely. Or you could decide you want to get together, you know that you and Lindsay want to talk and propose certain things. That's, that's all up to the board.

[31:10] It's based on my experience I treated this as a white paper as you referred to it earlier. Charlotte and as a white paper you just you're making a public document of trying to The fact that we were on the boards as reasons were pointed to this but wasn't a board subcommittee. It was a committee that console asked to be formed. And so as a White Paper. Staff can work with it. You guys can work with a concept and work with it if you want to make a recommendation that's within your purview. Okay, yeah. Yeah, I've, I've said a lot of words. So, um, I saw jocks hand before Mason's but I'm Me Mason. You want to go ahead and shock you want to wait. Okay, cool. To me, I'd like to point out that the Council asked for a joint committee, but they test have an HR. See, not a joint committee with these tasks we assigned the committee.

[32:08] The work came to our board and the work came to our Commission, and I know In this just discussion. A few minutes ago. We're talking a lot about content which we're not on yet we're still talking process and Process city council test the housing advisory board and human relations commission to form a joint committee. They didn't say Judy Stan Lindsay Mason, you are now the Joint Committee and separate from your boards and commissions and will report directly to us. Just so we're clear on that. It went to the boards and commission first There wasn't thorough agreement on the bond the documents. Part of the reason why I left was early on the bias that was being represented in it. And again, we'll talk about content later. But since Julie brought up God brought up thorough agreement with this, there wasn't. And that was part of the challenge on these documents, was that I was very opposed.

[33:03] To the structure of these documents and I was highly concerned about the recommendations, whether we couch them in. We believe or not it was moving it, and they were moved front and center in the In this document. So when we talk process and structure to me, having that come back to the board. We could have talked about do we as a board. Want these in there, or do we want to put them at the end or do, does it make sense for this document to go forward. Recommending because, again, this isn't a separate committee that Council appointed members to it is a fraction of who we are and these went representing a portion of who we are. So that to me needed to be clarified. Councils request for information and getting out there. Yes, having the information out there is very important. And when we talk about content. I think it's also very important to have

[34:04] Not hurried the process just to have something out there. What's more important is to have a structure a professionalism, a well written document that is also database and there's You know, we'll talk about content with the pieces that are missing on that. But to me, hurrying a document, just to get it out there is not a good reason to usurp aboard. So we can spend as much time as you all want. Talking about what's already happened. But this price already happened. If the have wants to set a new process, they certainly can. But that's fine, but every the majority of have wants to do is fine. So I'm talking about what was will only, you know, I think we all have the right and the ability to clear the air. And happened.

[35:00] I want to just say, I don't want to talk about have creating a new process have has a process today. And this was a departure from that process. That, in my mind, as I said, I feel was very inappropriate. So I'm just going to put that out there. I think we all have a very similar desire for the outcome. I think that You know, lessons learned and moving forward. I was chair of the meeting that set up this joint committee and Error on my part in not being very clear about the proposed outcome, but I assumed that it would follow existing processes that were there. So, you know, I agree duty with that that moving forward as we set up committees. Joined or otherwise, we should make sure that we put together an expected outcome and flow from that so That's one of the lessons here that

[36:00] I agree. I will say this is the First time there was a joint committee and that that's the very first time. And that seemed very different to us working across groups. And again, I can only say, I'm sorry. It really disconcerted everyone we we would certainly bring things to you. In the future, first, and you can set up whatever process they want, I can say, I'm sorry, one more time. And then I'm pretty much done saying, I'm sorry. Okay, so I'm sorry and and I'm done. No, no, no problem. Um, What clarifying point have these already been submitted to counsel. Or Have have that was that was what kind of currently. You know, when I said concurrently. That's what we had decided to do on Sunday, and it was sent to console. Okay, we weren't copied on that email. So I just didn't know. So to clarify. Said concurrently to counsel, I think in the email. Oh, okay. I'm just saying we weren't copied on the email when it was sent. So it's okay it's

[37:04] Totally fine. Just Saying, Charlotte is that that one email. She sent was what was sent to both Oh, okay. Understood. Got it. Okay. My bad. Well, that's fine. Um, I mean, can I just ask a question, Terry. Do you have, you want to add anything you're muted you're muted. Oh, let's see. Yeah, sorry. I think philosophically yes if something goes out with our name on it, then it should come before the board and be discussed and approve to go out So I do agree with pretty much everybody was saying that, which was everybody But, but I also understand from the other perspective, this was a first time thing. It's never been done before there. We did a point, some people from our board to work on it. And they did. And they did a good job. From what I understand, and you know they maybe jump the gun and sent it out without I can understand from a, from a logistical process how that can just happen.

[38:11] I think we've made a pretty good point here for the last 15 minutes saying let's not let that happen again. So I think we all agree on that. So if there's ever a joint committee with another board and the reports created before it goes city council. Let's get it before so we can talk about it and at least I think will vote or at least a consensus that yeah we agree with what's going on here and then send it out. I think we should move on. I agree. Thanks, Terry. I felt like it was important to discuss this just because I'm a number of board members expressed opinions, but I'd like to Move into the substance of these reports, I have a few questions and if that's okay. If everyone's comfortable with just Judy, are you okay with answering questions or how are you with This absolutely and

[39:00] Saying, yeah. Definitely. Cool. That's, that's great. Um, I might hold my questions and other folks have questions or comments. About at least the Tiny House report, I also know that there was a safe parking report. So I hope that's up for up for grabs, as well. Cool. Great. I'll open it up, then Mason. I know you have some questions. Um, I don't know that their questions so much I wrote them in the report, which for me on the content. Again, when we test. This committee, you know, when councils said do this and then board said, Who wants to do the on this committee. Um I vividly remember Juliet saying this is just research right making enemy. Any recommendations right this and we assured them that we would be doing

[40:05] A report of just what we find, so that we could work through this as a group, before we make any motions or recommendations so The report to me contains recommended recommendations. When we say we the, we believe, whether or not the Joint Committee thinks they were separate and different from our boards, they're still recommendation couched in we believe That, to me, creates a biased document, the minute a researcher starts putting in their opinion of what they believe, versus what the data is showing, then I think we've we're creating bias on it. I think that as I wrote in the in the dissent is that it's really hard for us to hold the bar expecting staff or anybody presenting a presentation to us if

[41:00] They were presenting stuff to us that was biased one way or the other, we have called them on that. And I think it's important for our own Reputation political capital, however you want to name it that we set that bar and present an unbiased report. And so the the positioning of We believe and the conclusions on these and the inclusion of them. I think that could have been two separate reports. I presented that to this committee of saying, one could just be informational. The next one could include our what we'd like. The boards to consider for emotion and then included a a two pager or three pager for City Council so that it was clean and separated them all apart and there was no bias associated with them. The road. I think the record is incomplete because it doesn't include sanctioned encampments and we were tasked with those approaches to have all of them together. So to me it's interesting and concerning that we heard a report where

[42:06] There's a ton of data that was in the middle of being mined that could have gone into this report as well. The report is also incomplete because it does not include builder specific data on the population intended to be served by these proposed gap measures. Now I know Stan was working on the data piece of this, and it was incredibly difficult to get data. From the county, and although Curtis said that it's on the dashboard. It's on the dashboard in percentages and that is really hard to assess out with the county where you've got very specific numbers so Myself and I think Stan was doing it as well we're mining inside of those numbers. And so part of to me, presenting this report. If we're researching it was to include what exactly like lets you save parking. For example, what exactly are we solving for what population. Who are they, what are they doing and

[43:04] And on the day this went out. Maybe the day before I had just gotten the police report of all the parking tickets for safe parking so That included would have been a solid more complete report, along with some other numbers that were there, but we rushed it and and that that to me did a great disservice. And the report is also incomplete because their stakeholders. We had access to access to that were not consulted or included which Again makes us look like an opinion piece and not completed and the report is much longer than City Council requested which dilutes its message and reduces its political or sorry potential impact. So I'll respond to a few of those. If I can remember. Okay, there's already done. I'm sure that I don't know jack. Did you have your hand up, I thought I'd seen it but you know I might not remember if too many people Go ahead, Judy. Okay, so, um, It's my understanding that this whole process started from opinion of bias because we voted on June 29

[44:07] That we supported certain issues we supported safe parking we supported encampments we supported tiny houses, those were all our recommendations. So our research was all based on making the case, it's just so happens that we found little or no research out there. And criticizing these efforts that was current there was old stuff that didn't work and we picked When there were problems we sorted out what the problems were by either talking to providers directly or doing the research. And so we pick specific characteristics that That we believed would be favorable. And again, we didn't say anything about have or HR. See, in fact, we made recommendations to have and we made a request to have and request. Request to them that we thought would be good for console to consider, but

[45:01] Also know we didn't include encampments. This is just the first of many Of the recommendations that we're going through and Stan is working on data we're working on looking at Oversight Committee or some opportunity to get live more lived experience from people in camp moments actually was something we were hoping to get to. And that was the piece that Mason had had taken and so the reason why we didn't do it. Countless because we're not We're doing each report as they come out and and these two came together first by decision by group decision that these would be the ones we would start with is there. As far as the length I never gotten the instructions on length we had Adam at the majority of all our meetings and I was in contact with them about everything. We based our report after discussion with Adam, who is our city council liaison.

[46:01] On what Council is used to looking with looking at and the report where staff show the bias of not being in favor of tiny homes are safe parking that was The memo that that Council got was 33 pages. Ours was I don't know 12 1314 with a few pages of attachments And we on purpose picked the model that staff uses because Adam thought that it would be really good because councils already really used to reading memos prepared in a certain way. So we followed the format that That councils already used to reading and he was the one who suggested we put our conclusions up front. We didn't have them that way because he said, for those who aren't reading all of it. They'll at least get that and so that that's just my response to some of the points that Mason race.

[47:01] Thanks, Judy. One meter spot the data question. I mean, that's, that was a piece that I was working specifically with One of the things as her on one of these things is, of course, to get adequate data. And we've been fighting with console ready to get this One of the most interesting things and most recent report they gave me, which was actually several pages response to data request was it, they do not track negative scenarios. And that's very important because, of course, we're dealing with entire populations that they would consider negative scenarios. The reason I felt that we didn't have to have all the data complete at this point is that basically the only thing would be feasible at this point of the pilots. And it's quite clear that the number of individuals are fit in all the categories that would need That are not being served. Currently, that would need options are well beyond any number that would ever be in these pilots. These pilots would be to determine whether or not such a thing could work and boulder if if you guys would recommend that and console where to do it and then to decide how big you have to go when you scale a pilot up to the level be useful to people.

[48:13] Think, Stan. And I have a few questions. Unless Mason, you have a follow up. Yes. Okay. Cool. Um, well, I again. I really appreciate all the work that's gone into this and I'm, I'm, I look forward to seeing forthcoming reports and hearing about the work that You all do. It's really important. And this is a while. And these are all volunteer positions going to reiterate that it's not easy to take time out of your work, family play schedules to do this. So I thank you. Thank you for doing this. Um, I am wondering, there was under the I'm looking at the tiny, tiny house, house village pilot program report and this is under the section of

[49:04] This is the Boulder City staff memos pros and cons. And one of the cons and unintended consequences was zoning and building codes that zoning and building codes are barriers to construction and wondering, have you all identified types of zoning concerns like square footage regulations. Appliance regular appliance regulations. Do you know what kind of barriers. The city is facing when it comes to zoning. I talked at some length to a Developer named Kevin mole shine, who did the project in Longmont And he. These are things that I'm sure Terry and in Jacques with no way, way, way more about me and I that than I do. But he said that Longmont, which used to be considered. Pretty easy, isn't really any easier than boulder anymore and and there are this tiny homes project. Unlike safe parking. So somebody sets up a safe parking

[50:05] Pilot. They don't even have to get the approval of city council. It'd be nice if they had the support, but there's nothing in there that has to actually go through council. But this sort of project obviously would and there would be all sorts of barriers, depending on what the zoning of the existing property was and he said He, he, it's very hard to have to also build the infrastructure, then you have to even go through a lot more if it's an area that doesn't have roads are already in it or underlying utilities and all that. So there's tons, and I don't I don't pretend To know about that at all, just that it is much more complicated, but that the city. Obviously as well equipped to deal with that. And the developer Right, right. So that would be cool. Just Just that we have to go through probably You know how they do you know have to go through planning board. Hey, I got all the readings, all of that.

[51:02] So this is Do you know if planning board. I am not in sync with the planning board is discussing these days. Do you know of planning board is if this is on their radar if they're discussing tiny ons. I don't know. I guess we could ask Sarah I'm pretty sure that planning board again, maybe. Well, I suppose. Jay, can you answer that. I don't think that planning board goes out looking Projects to pursue, they just take what's on their plate so Yeah tech Terry seems like you're muted. Yeah, but the duties. Exactly right. Planning Board responds to projects that are brought to them right so so good picture Council such zoning rules and whatnot. And then people create projects proposed projects to planning board. Starts with staff and then if it's a meet certain criteria, then it goes to planning board and they respond, based on what the zoning rules are, I think the bigger question here is what kind of zoning. Do we have deals a tiny homes, directly or indirectly, and I don't think there's a lot of it.

[52:13] But the bigger bigger question without, you know, a report went out, it didn't. And we saw it. We didn't is Unless city council and to certain lesser extent planning board want to identify locations, and I don't think too many within the city or or within the urban service area, area one Identify locations where we can do something like this, and it's just it's dead from the start, you're not going to get any we need to We need to identify location and I saw some some comments and the documents about private developers donating land and stuff, a rental boulder in this area where there are services where there are rules and utilities and all that. I find that surprising. Very, very surprising.

[53:01] Exactly what's Going to happen unless the benefit was so huge to do But there are areas that the city controls via zoning that aren't in the urban service area, area one they call it that, that I think could be really good opportunities for something like this. And I think there are private landowners there that That are given the chance would maybe look at something like this. So you know if you guys know me, I'm a practical guy. There's philosophy. And then there's what can actually happen and economics and zoning and Planning and process and I look at it from a tenant be done and how can I get them versus a philosophical theoretical discussion. So that's my two cents on that answer your question. And also I will say that reminded me Kevin was so gung ho gung ho about this project that he said he'd be happy to go talk to anyone, anywhere, anytime about it because he believes in such a Unknown boon for developers and in the project in Longmont, they had many acres, like I think 63 have roads or infrastructure anything on it, but he besides getting the process expedited

[54:16] He met his in Longmont, it's only 12% not 15% but doing this and then doing a few What do you call those houses where people that Jimmy Carter used to go out and build houses. What are those called African habitats. Thank you. Thank you, habitat for you, man. He said they'd had a few of those. And then they they did this and he said it was well worth his while in the expedited time that he got and that's what made a difference to me. He said he did, he did. Agree that either has to be somebody who's got land which even could be industrial and go for a change of mixed Or or that it has to be city property, it has to be a developer who has enough residential development that they want to. He's he believes he's the first in the country that has a residential area of 63 acres that has tiny homes right in. And there's housing of all different prices.

[55:13] Exactly. To me, this would need to be part of a larger development. Yes, you could gain more non tiny home units in trade for doing tiny home. Exactly. That's exactly what he said. Yeah, that's, that's how it should that's that's the most likely after success. Guide Mason. So Terry you're bringing up an excellent point which goes back to content in this, I agree with you. That there are many barriers to a tiny house development entering in. And one Part of bringing this informational report back to our boards and commissions first gives us an opportunity to ask these questions and fill out a report.

[56:00] In a manner that we think would have been more comprehensive for city council and to If we know like what we know about safe markings and faith based land, what we've discovered in that Is that if we're pretty sure councils, not going to put it on their work plan or consider it. One of the things that we do by presenting this report is lay the foundation that other boards and commissions can build off of. So by having something that's comprehensive And with data so Standard brought up that the negative scenario data is are not accounted for. However, What I had been working on that last week is backing into the data because if you take the positive data and you look at the the numbers there is a way to back into what's not being paid attention to, so that we can ask specifically for that information. And so, again, to me, when we put out an informational report and it lacks all of the information we're leaving the same questions we're working through right now.

[57:06] That the Council would have Had answers. I think we all agree that we should have come before us, and we should have fleshed it out of the should have added to it and protect it. It's done. So next I will do Well, yes. Next time we'll do that. And I appreciate your brevity and a lot of things. Terry, but At the same time, I think that having this conversation one. I'm very incredibly frustrated. I just put in many, many hours on this. And I think it's okay that I expressed that. Well, while we're talking this through for one For two. I also think that the thing. The reason why we're in this situation and jack and I were talking about it earlier, is because We all are so busy that when it came to the board. We said, Who wants to be on the Joint Committee two hands were raised. We went off and running. There was no structure put together. So, at the same time.

[58:03] That you're like we got it. We're moving on. Don't have to talk about it anymore, data, data we do because that's exactly how we got into trouble in the first place. So just putting in there that some of the structure is necessary and when we rush through things. This is how stuff gets missed Yeah. I understand that. But I think we got it. Jack. Go ahead. Oh, so kind of bridging Those two places. I do think that it is and I think Terry's you know his comments are landing on What really needs to go in front of counsel from my perspective, which is a proposal on how this can be accomplished and how Council can support a tiny home community. Within boulder either by addressing zoning or addressing a community benefit allowance zoning codes, whatever that might be.

[59:08] But it seems to be that that is the legwork that needs to be done. Aside from The recognition that I think this recognition that we've done so far is is good, saying, look, you know these things can work, they are being used in multiple locations around the country. And although they don't fill all needs of the housing first concept, necessarily, they do address some of the gaps and some of the spaces that we have When we're trying to onboard people into that system. So I think this kind of addresses that piece of it. I think moving forward. The critical piece and maybe this is something more for Terry and I to be talking about and looking at is how do we Then present to counsel, here are the things that you can do. They're not going to cost you any money. They are going to cost you some meeting time

[60:05] That will support having tiny houses develop because right now. I think you know as Terry said it may be best that this is part of a larger development and it's kind of a Community benefit aspect, but to look at that and put those opportunities down in a proposal that would be a recommendation to counsel. So, you know, I see this piece that's gone on, so far as valuable in the kind of setting the stage. But again, I think that something you know much more cohesive Is necessary as far as how does Council support this. Because if we're just saying that it's, you know, up to a private developer to come in and take it on themselves. That's going to be a long stretch I think you hit the nail there jack about you and Terry Pip possibly working on

[61:02] This one. So I had identified a partner, a developer a successful developer in town that's worked with the city for years, who's interested in this. So it might be interesting to move forward with some type of a proposal on how this look for us to do that for city council. Has has has attorney home anything. Everything In the format of here's a potential project. I don't have any but I'm just wondering if I may be missed. It has, has anybody ever said, hey, we can do a tiny home project here and here's how we're going to do it is that that ever get in front of city council. The formal Process. Situation I'm aware of is that when there were discussions about what to do with Hogan pen costs. The city purchased it, and there are discussions about it at the park. Should it be, you know what, which is the community was staff did propose that a small chunk. I think it was only two and a half or three acres

[62:10] He is where I've heard Tony home village. And there was, I think, the developer that presented with that through Jill as well. Right. Um, I don't remember a developer actually getting involved that was, this was really just providing some options for Council to consider. Here pretty picture of a layout that I saw. In that I created one, but I didn't see the light of day. So no, it was not well received and And will will will receive because it was tiny homes or because of all the flood issues at the neighbors were complaining about it. Yeah, me. Too. It's tied up in all the issues associated with so yeah Not so much rejected because rejected wasn't not so much look on favorable call because of its kind of holds more because they're veil and all the other issues around going,

[63:04] Well, sorta, because I need my perception that when I was sitting through that process was that there was seven or eight acres that were developed her that were developed will load telephone developable And I yeah there was a huge movement from neighbors. Who didn't want that area to be developed that particular area was not a flood the area that he proposed on Well, we've never even nobody's ever even gone with a project to counsel or planning board or any of the governing bodies and said, Hey, how about this. Yeah. And in particular, in particular, this one that's coming out of Longmont is incredibly interesting because it integrates within a neighborhood, and it is a portion of what is already being developed in the area. So it's, it's a, an interesting model. That makes sense.

[64:06] Right, that's, that's for The Longmont one is prevent veterans. Yes. Dealing with neighbors all the time and projects. There's a big difference between tiny homes for veterans are tiny homes for just, you know, Yeah. We don't just traditional living like I can afford $600 and let them read it or whatever. Get on any versus unhealthy. I think there's a huge difference between those two projects. That's why you will Notice that in our report. All of the four people that I interviewed definitely agree with you, Terry. They definitely suggested obviously not to pick veterans because Boulder County is doing the tiny homes for veterans, but that we pick a specific group that's Bad neighbors might be more comfortable with like older adults or people with pets or something like

[65:04] That you go. Where do you go for a target population every single one of them suggested just what you're talking about that. That's Lower hanging fruit and and easier to get the community on board. And if you can do that for the pilot and get people, you know, show that it's going well and and this is also transitional. By the way, the one in Longmont is not permanent housing, it's transitional and and they, they have a very high rate. Of the that they have for their outcomes. So when in Kansas City, they have something like 65 to 75 i think i can't quite remember percent of people move into permanent housing. That's great. That's great. That's a wonderful tool. So that leads into another question. Um, has the committee identified any locations where I pilot program.

[66:00] May. May be successful, other than other than like private property as Terry brought up, you know, where a homeowner would give their land or something. Yes, absolutely. Not at all. And they didn't feel like that was within our purview at all, but it's a Great project and that might not even necessarily fall into HR seats interest, but that might be a great project for, like you said, For have to take on and think about that, you know, If we're not if we're not messing with anyone in the community, who's already working on this and making their issues complicated. I don't know. You know, to my knowledge there's no group. You know, I don't know. You know, I don't know if that would complicate somebody else's stuff, but just looking around a property might be worthwhile for have Good idea. I think sharks idea was good. Yeah, I really appreciate jocks proposal to actually look at the feasibility and

[67:06] You know how, how can we be how can we propose some sort of like pragmatic solution that council. I don't know if you How can we move forward with this you know jack and Terry. You two are the experts on zoning. What I'm not sure what what what do you suggest that process looks like or not to go back to process. Sorry, Terry. I think I'm Done with process. Process. So how do we go beyond that and figure out how to get some tiny homes bit bolder, which is one of the main reasons I joined this board.

[68:03] Yeah, because I I think tiny homes. Me personally, are the answer to a lot of our housing issues. And that's A significant chunk. I think you can you can take the small codes and put them in a lot of places and it solves a lot of problems for people that need and want to live in both that's my personal opinion. Yeah. Tony home village is very different than tiny home one off like You look around, Boulder and there's there's single family homes with 10,000 or 868 10,000 square foot. Lots of goal right In the houses don't take up a lot. And there's plenty of room in the backyard decider, whatever it is for a tiny home. You can put thousands of them on property that already exist and lots that already exist in Boulder shock and I many, many months ago when we could You know, be protection in captivity with each other, went saw went up on poplar, and it was was also those absolutely one. But don't take our lessons or it's great.

[69:02] With that step that's option A, one at a time on lots that exist in town. That's a pure zoning question. That's a modification looks like at us rather around private property owners to go and be able to put a tiny home on their land or addition to the house, they already have their That's different than the tiny village where you need to go find a bigger piece of property where you could put lots of them in one place two different things. Right. What do we want to focus on, because I think shock and I have had many discussions about this already. And if we want to Look at the one Z two Z on existing locks in town. That's a zoning question and it's probably a lot more straightforward and I think candidly, it has a much higher chance of success than trying to go find A larger piece of property for bigger development to include some tiny homes, although I have an idea on that that I'd like to share. I don't know if this is the right Time, but I think there's opportunities for that for private property owners. You think it's in Boulder, but it's not in Boulder and and I think there's a chance for that too. So I'm excited about the fact that we're focused on tiny homes and trying to get some built in jacobabad

[70:14] Yeah. Well, we think about A versus B. Terry, I'm going to tack on to you there. The thing that excites me the most about backyard tiny houses is equity. So It is the only way for a young couple or family or a single person or a teacher to own something and share equity. It also builds community so Instead of just having a renter might be there for a short period of time, whereas having like HOA come through. Your building more community with somebody get that your housing within your community that's working here as well. So, to me, the big piece of that backyard. One is There are a lot of individuals, whether retired or under, you know, a certain level of income that could buy a tiny house and put it in some a lot. And then you share the value because the homeowner is still getting a slip feed, but both are invested in the property.

[71:12] Yeah, I Don't know if we're going off on a tangent here, but I think having Tony, I hear what you're saying. I think it's a little more difficult the equity piece is a little more difficult. Because of various reasons that we don't need to get into today. But yes, a lot of us do a lot of us have backyard tiny houses are very doable. It's a zoning issue. And we could do thousands of them in Boulder thousands of them. Not just a zoning modification to allow for that simple. Yeah. BRAD TOLD ME, IT WAS JUST ONE modification One modification in it, and felt like that was something I think i think one of those modifications is one of the pieces that we've talked about before, which is tiny homes on wheels.

[72:00] With alternative tied down or something of that sort, versus an edu which is essentially a tiny on a foundation That comes into this discussion when you talk about the equity piece specifically Right. Yeah. Because I mean, honestly, an ad us, I mean a tiny house on a slab is an edu. It's not anything really that different just a different form slightly But yes, um, you know, Boulder County already has a tiny house village up in Lyons that was approved that's using tie downs that has no issues. So we have examples. We also have examples. I think it's up in Wyoming have a shared equity on the land kind of mobile home style setting on a piece of land but yeah all things to be explored like Charlotte said in a feasibility. For more kind of bring it back to the excited to hear Absolutely. So, um, I was going to do a time check here, but I'm, I'm wondering, before we move on and you know tie a bow on this discussion. Is there any work that jack and Terry, you might be interested in doing. I'm working on one or the other. You know, I know that there's

[73:21] This the report that was produced is really about a village, but Terry, as you mentioned, You know it's might be easier to just work on zoning laws to allow for at sorry tiny homes to be built in backyard. So would you to be interested in you know Doing some work on that are and This is where the pops off and they both go yes I think the answer. The short answer is yes, but my question to Jay is Jay this topic.

[74:03] Backyard tell you what can you say that nice nice nice nice short Description. Has that been brought before plenty of water Castle in any form or fashion historically vicious the village. Because I know there's been a lot of talk about tiny homes over the years. Now and then, and I think we're Jacques Jacques described it is tiny homes on wheels. Right. So that's the piece that I think we identified during the tiny homes listening session. Yeah, something worth exploring. Because they are you believe there should be no difference between an edu and a tiny house on wheels. Except for the person that owns that tiny home on wheels is building potentially equity right Yeah, maybe. I mean, I think it's, it's not equity is as some of us think. But I think for that population add Something in their own. I think that's the difference. Instead of purely renting anyway. I mean,

[75:01] The same Thing. If it has a foundation typically goes up in value if it has wheels are typically goes down. But it's their home and they Understand What I'm getting at is any of anything like this been explored the last five years. No. Okay, that's good. Well, then there Are sharp. Sorry. Charlotte my short answer is also yes. And Terry. I don't know what you know what your thoughts are of how we would do that or what the board's thoughts are around that but I definitely be open to putting some some time into trying to kind of look at this and say, Okay, here's here are the pieces that we thank you for that it could work for Yeah, absolutely.

[76:01] I don't think that you have to come up that the board has to come up with what that what the format of that kind of research would would would be sit on it. Think on it for a week and we we can always You two can talk and then If you wanted to send something out to the board for us to look at maybe know how you think this would this research would be vented or what exactly you're going to look at. You can always send it a Korean inquiry can send it to all of us, or whatever, that looks like. So, Awesome. Um, how does everyone feel about moving on. He's moving on into a parking or is moving on, off of this all together. Um, we, I was going to move on to five feet, but if you wanted to, if you have some questions about wanted to talk with safe parking and i i think that's fine because that was that that should be, you know,

[77:06] Consider that part of this today's agenda, since that was another document that has been circulating Yeah. Well, I mean, again, if nobody has any comments about it. That's, that's fine. Like, like Terry with tiny houses, I Intently watched every city council meeting it for a year and a half to get it on for safe parking and dwellers mobile dwellers. So to me, Safe parking is incredibly important laying the foundation for that as I was talking to a couple people earlier today. It's, um, it's not about seeking money from city council or Or expecting them to do any of the work, but having them endorse it endorsed safe parking, I think is really important. Being clear just like Any houses, there's different populations within it. But one of the things that's critical to me right now, especially last weekend having monitor the shelter all weekend and having done safe checks, is that

[78:09] We have individuals in crisis right now. And so just pushing this White Paper or not talking about it or prioritizing it or emphasizing that Especially to the community that's listening watching or walk will watch later how important this is. It's incredibly important safe parking Is about the invisible on housed and from the numbers I'm figuring it's between 25 and 30% of whatever you're on housed is. So if you're looking between a 600 to 1000 person a night being on housed about 25 to 30% of that is in invisible. It's important, and we were trying to suss out through parking tickets and doing counts. There was a couple of us doing counts on vehicles in neighborhoods. And how many people are parking in our community because like Sam said this. We're not tracking any of that information, information and

[79:05] What also needs to be pointed out is that we're not doing it in the point in time count, which counts as one day out of the year, all the house that they can find. So making in this informational document. To me one of the things that would be important is showing the information we can back into and then requesting that we start Making this a priority in the account that we need to start top counting people that are in vehicles as we can tell. That population in LA County grew 27% in the last quarter. So that's how many people are living in vehicles and we know it's an issue around town. It was an issue for me over the course of one weekend. And so I just want to stress that drive it all home that it for anybody watching and listening that say parking is an important thing and requesting the data to be tracked Yeah, sorry. Go ahead. JACK

[80:01] Or um well one thing that struck me and looking at what God sent through there. Is that Although you know Council has, you know, and I think this tags into what Mason was saying, although Council has you know stipulated that they want to spend any money on this. Etc. Etc. I think that the piece that stands out to me is that these efforts tend to be a relatively small number of units vehicles people At each location and then distributed throughout multiple locations. And so to me it just one of the thoughts that came to mind is That one of the city's roles might be as advocate for this and maybe the most important thing is to let

[81:01] The public know that this is something that the city would support that it's going to be a faith based or other organizations who can do this by right on their property as it exists currently But that the city can have some role and engaging with a cohesion in that system, which then also may lead to some efficiencies of cost because the other thing that did strike me is You know, the costs per person. From what I was seeing, at least in some of the examples are quite high. And you know I think somebody made a comment. Maybe it was one of the cons in the staffs list there Jade. It was basically like look, you can house somebody for the money you're spending to manage this system, but And that will be the benefit of the municipality. The city getting involved in this is to try to bring some sort of efficiencies and some sort of umbrella over the whole process that would a legitimize it potentially make it more efficient and encourage people to step into the space.

[82:13] The first time I've ever heard government make something more efficient. So I'm sorry I chuckle there. You're dealing with Models this week. Yeah. So jack to cover a couple of things that you're saying there is that there are a wide variety of models of safe parking. There's everything from Adam and different populations, there's like three or four different populations within vehicle mobile dwellers and so There are some programs where the city has done it. And there are some programs where nonprofits are managing them alongside of partnership with the faith based communities. Currently right now in Colorado, there is a large statewide organization that is grant writing and expects to have an answer in the next couple of weeks on funding coming through to hit almost every county

[83:01] There's also some churches already identified in this and willing to work through it. So, to me, the quickest way of instead of having to go through a city process of getting counselors on City Council members on board was asking for an endorsement which Judy might be able to attest to but I think that's all Longmont did was endorse the nonprofit running Say parking. They have nothing to do with any of the finances are organizing or anything else. So It might expedite quicker without getting city involved and still have funds, but I also think that with the different populations, just like tiny houses. Is if we do it right in in on a couple of properties. There's other opportunities like summit county does a safe parking where it is individuals that work the mountain. So it's working poor that leave to go Work the mountain and then come back there. So there's services are not is dialed in, like, it's not overly managed it literally is a bathroom a spot they pay a fee to actually be there, etc. So there's different models is one thing.

[84:09] Yeah, and to be the gateway drug into doing you know something more comprehensive with Yeah. I, I'd like to say that I think of the ideas that are coming from this are great and and With with the report, as the report then have can go off and do its thing and HR see can go do their thing and with what Mason said is entirely true. The The people who started the safe parking lot worked with council and talk to them and worked with staff to keep them informed, but they just got And that's very helpful for the city because the city has a means of starting to collect this data, like how many people are on the waiting list to go in. That's a good indication of how many people he places. So it just all builds the relationship, but yes.

[85:02] Those places might be just as happy to not have us Trying to tie the city to it. Just have the city be supportive of it and aware of it and see the positive aspects, because the report did make it sound like safe parking and tiny homes in encampments were viable for boulder. And so we're hoping that the reports at least show by ability So Judy, um, I have a question. Do you When you were y'all were analyzing the Unintended consequences or cons that staff. Proposed I did you get any idea of like what is the incentive for that position. What, what is that coming from where whereas like

[86:01] Who is who is directing staff to say that this is not a good idea. Does that make Sense. Oh, Charlotte, I wouldn't touch that with a 10 foot pole. I have, I have no I haven't Tried it Great, I again I gather that Jay, you know, Julian site summer. Who's, who's telling you to say no to things. I do not know. More specific to that question, Charlotte is where's the data that proves us to be bad. Right, so, um, Yeah. And I just, I recognize that some of your reports at the reports actually collectively show that there was data omitted in staffs presentation to counsel that shows the pros of some of these programs. So just like worth noting that Yes, and I will just say that was very disconcerting. When we found it and I did talk to staff that prepared those reports, because I didn't want them to be caught off guard. When we put that in, in the report. Um, and so, yeah, I don't have any other comment than to note there was

[87:13] There was cereal. Yeah, I don't. Yeah, we couldn't find we couldn't find Bad information. We couldn't find bad information about safe parking lots. I just couldn't find any Mason. Did you because I knew you did a lot of lucky there was stuff in the past, a long time ago when they were to begin, some places, but did you do anything. Yes. So this is where I thought it was that the report was incomplete was lacking the lived experience check ins with the individuals who had actually lived there and talking to them and there was some downsides to it, especially depending on the population, you were working with. Right, okay. And I just wanted to add that it's important to recognize that these programs.

[88:00] can coexist and should coexist with our housing first program. The reason why these programs need to exist is because we have an inadequate number of affordable housing units in this city right housing first is great. We want people to be housed. But until then, people shouldn't die. On the streets. So very simple. I don't know it to me. Um, so that's all I have to say there are there any other. Other comments or questions about the state parking report. I just, I just wanted to say back onto the pieces of the cons, you know, and It does. It appears to me as I look at the cons that it's just kind of a grab bag of all the possible Unintended consequences that one's imagination might stir up around these things. And I think that that said the imagination.

[89:00] Isn't unreal, necessarily. In other words, I think that there are people within the city of Boulder and there are Constituencies within the city of Boulder who all might bring up any one of those topics that are there. If this was to stand in front of Council, in some way, let's say, or become a public process of trying to create shelter. So the fact that they're all there. I think is excellent. In that it gives us the kind of information we need to counter those things. And to do that, and the data driven method. So, It's great, you know that they're there. And I think that it's great that Judy and coast and when a hand ahead and countered each one of those and presented that in that way. And You know, I think that the more the more data we can bring to those counter arguments or to the validity of those arguments are the concerns that are there, the better. So I, you know,

[90:03] I like the fact that they're in there. And I think that you know it's it's a good working document in that sense. Yeah. Great. Well, thank you again and Judy and Stan and Mason for the work that you've put in to these reports. This has been a very rich conversation. Are we comfortable with. Moving on to five be our next agenda item. Well, I'm curious to how we want to end this because To me personally, there were several asks on the bottom of my descent. For this which to wrap this up is I think we've already acknowledged that it was shouldn't have been sent Terry heard you loud and clear. And

[91:00] I think that's important. Do we want to leave this hanging with Council, do we want to say we're working on feasibility studies are we moving forward with something else. Are we just leaving it as it is, and nothing else is being said Because what happens when they receive a tiny house feasibility report and they're like, Wait, what, what's happening here. So do you want to say something about that. I, I suppose this is one of the pieces where it would have been from my perspective, helpful to have seen the email that went out to counsel because I don't know if there was what other you know preface, there was to these documents. It was the same. The one you got No, it wasn't. No, it was Pardon. That's what we, the Charlotte was asking earlier as it did you have a written You

[92:00] Read it, you Know, so we didn't see it. No, no. Just net and your email. We said concurrently, and That we didn't see You could, we could I ask that that be forwarded to us. I can do it. Because I think that's one of the unknowns for me or the uncertainties. For me is the presentation of this to council and aside from what is written here. Just to get clarity and then to be able to engage with Mason's concern on that which is I mean, my question is just that is Council clear that this is a white paper working document or are they believing that this is a form of recommendations is are they, you know that that was made very clear in the process, what this is. That's all. And so You read it and or send it Whichever you want I'd love for you to send it to it. If you were just because I ADHD and I'll have to read 16 cars.

[93:09] Gary's gonna limit you to one on that. Time for that. Jack just one I'm going to review for a while theories Report your bus, by the way, specifically, if you're willing to disclose in public. No, I am storing it up in North boulder. More time they're giving your tickets In front of my business out here on Which is interesting. While Judy's doing this. What is interesting is that I got the police report on tickets issued for Arby's and buses, which might take it says, and it's not in the police data, which is also extremely interesting that We're working Downtown 633 yeah across from the Judicial Center. Oh,

[94:02] You're right. No, we're on any municipal street in anywhere it up. And just a note on that for all of us. I also went out while Judy's doing this and I ran around my neighborhood news and there are probably a collection of within a few blocks 20 or more 26 average Around a lot more value per unit of parked RV vehicles on the street that never get a ticket. Yeah, when I Talk to my neighbors, you have them. Yeah, there's definitely an equity issue that goes on with it. Was really important to show in the information for that report was the fact that this was an equity issue. If you look at the tickets are being issued maple to embark some of our, you know, diagonal Plaza in and around that area. It was never over in this area. I think that That is an important piece. It's Saturday.

[95:01] Or Sunday. Right. Well, I had already sent it so I'm Surprised you know you did I say I'm saying I thank you for sending that out. Yeah, so I did receive it and Mason. I just wanted to address you know your desired concluding points here and So, I'm are you hoping that. What do you hope maybe you can Play it read it. And I just read it. Yeah. Jack. Did you get a couple Good ones presented as a Report. So I'm So if you're all saying your complete don't feel like you have to send Council anything else and you feel they're Going to be ending up with some iterations and feasibility studies, then

[96:00] I am I I don't want to have to do this, but I feel like I'm I think it's It might be important for Huh. See I'm conflicted because I really value the work that has been done, um, however, we didn't get to see the like we didn't get to discuss these reports before they were sent officially the Council and so I we didn't approve them right I don't want to discredit what has been presented Yeah, any Any thoughts on and I can send an email Mason to counsel. And I need to think about what that will say,

[97:01] You know, I think you might want to talk to Lindsay To and you also May want to think about it because if you're also worried about it, seeming disorganized to send another one. ESPECIALLY IF YOU IMPLIED IT CAN BE follow up stuff. Then there's the obligation to Have that follow up stuff and right now it says in both reports that we're asking, have an HR see to do this and we're asking To consider this and we're asking Council to consider that. So they know that it hasn't gone that it had that council had that HR see and have haven't made a decision on it. And if you want to do something. I'm fine. If you do it, but I Can say that in the cover letter. It doesn't say that. Um, That we didn't know and that there was the possibility of more reports, where am I seeing that No, I didn't know there would be more reports of course it doesn't say that the cover letter in both

[98:01] In both reports itself. It says what we're asking HR see and have to do and what and what we're asking council to do and it's clearly just from the committee not from have or HR see But you can do it or do whatever you Would like to hear from jack and Terry to just, you know, going forward about we spent a lot of political capital on this, and what does it look like Going forward, What What should we send an email saying, hey, we didn't approve this and we want to add more So I was talking earlier with jack about this. And I think one of the things that I think we really That everybody should get comfortable with, whether it's our board or whether it's city staff or anything. How many times we watched say republicans versus democrats or city council or our staff. Make mistakes do stuff. And we would just wish they would have done it and do a course correction just kind of like what we're doing at the beginning of this meeting is saying.

[99:08] We don't ever want to have that happen again. I think there's some strength. And acknowledging that these reports went out without us being able to see them that it didn't adhere to the original process that we've had precedent over and this is what you can look forward to from us moving forward. I think there's strengthen in in acknowledging What has just happened without, you know, even jack and I were talking about is like there's pieces for us all to own in this and there's pieces for You know, like Judy and I were super eager to take this on when when honestly I had so much on my plate. I'm not sure that I should have taken on anything else. So there's There's everybody's got a piece to own and I think it's okay to say that And to reflect the fact that we have more coming from this and this is not A complete look at what we're doing and where we're headed.

[100:02] It does. In the next In the next to last line. It does say we are sending these concurrently day or see in half so they know that they're getting it for the first time, I think if you want to send them a note, Charlotte and say something like By the way we've received by the way we will be doing some follow up studies on on certain other aspects or something like that. That's just to let them know there's more coming. But I think that's all that needs to be said. Otherwise you devalue have what you can do. Yeah, I think we have Um, So, Think about outside shock. Your is something I just want to put my two cents in so that everybody's had had their two cents and You know, in looking at the Cover letter that went with the email to Council.

[101:00] It further splits the hair for me, so to speak. The wording does suggest that this is coming just from the Joint Committee, but I don't. Overall, I don't feel that it's necessarily as clear as it could have been to represent the kind of The standing of these documents in our process. I think that's the piece that's missing a little bit to me. I did speak with Lindsay earlier today. From HR. See, and, you know, we discussed this also and she I think it's probably worth a an email to counsel from the boards of both the Commission or, you know, from the chairs of both the Commission in the board to simply clarify. What the standing of these pieces are as Judy and Stan kinda did for us today, I think. So that, that's my position on it. I think that just that email would probably be sufficient.

[102:10] I'm Great. I am comfortable with that. Too. We need emotion for that. Or can I just do it now. Do you know Do it. So, so what I said, I just assumed we vote. Okay so vote on that okay um We should follow a process, I guess. Yep. So there's motion on the table for the chair of This this responsible for me to be The chair. I think as a chair. Okay. What Terry, sorry. I think, let me see if I understand we're asking. We're going to vote here in a second to ask you to craft an email and send it to Castle.

[103:06] I think what I want to look at it first, before it goes right Absolutely. I'll have Corey send the draft, as I did letter. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Um so motion for the chair of the housing advisory board to send a clarifying email to Council just detailing the standing of these two reports, can I get a second on that. Second, All in favor. Okay, we're one Passes for to one, so I will drop that and then have Corey send that out to you all to look at and I will sync up with Lindsay as well. And then the other two. Because I think will be clarifying that these are working white papers and not completed and

[104:03] So that you know as we get more information will be expanding Well, you can say You can say they're not completed from habit which are see they are completed from the joint committee that's that is our report, you can have had do one, you can have HR see doing if you want, but the H, the Joint Committee. One is done. Okay, so to say that would be incorrect. Hey, Great. And then Mason your final three and four points here. Right can be dropped Okay, okay. Understood. Okay. Um, my apologies for I'm skipping over those Totally fine. I just wanted to make sure that we You know, because that's It's funny words, it's very beginning when we first had to have that process was the part that always got us in the but You weren't clear

[105:01] No, no worries. So we're going to move on to discussing the Letter for letter to counsel, you should have all received a draft that Corey sense I only got comments back from Judy, so have folks had a chance to look at it. Mason, I see your hand. But generally, if you've had a chance to look at it. Great. You want to provide broad comments right now. It's kind of hard for us to work on it in a meeting. So if you have specific changes, email me but comments. Yes. Mason. Go ahead. Um, I didn't respond back to Corey because I, hands down, thought it was probably one of the best documents. I've ever read. And I truly deeply appreciate that. You took the time and energy to draft such a great document. So thank you for that. Thank you for taking on this piece. And I think it's brilliant. Thanks. Um, you know i two pages was the requirement of counsel sent out bullet points or headers that they wanted us to include I modified them a little bit, but I wanted to be respectfully candid and

[106:10] Joker Terry, have you both had a chance to Look at it. Okay. If you have comments, um, you know, please email us email Corey and then still email me. I I read it, I don't have any changes. I thought it was good as it stands. Think it's very good Charlotte. And I think the changes I would suggest wouldn't, wouldn't Wouldn't get voted on in a favorable way. So let's leave It. I know that if I if I told my landlord hat on and start talking about you know eviction moratoriums and the consequences of that nobody's gonna agree with me.

[107:00] Clean the room right So just keep that to myself. You can Make a few tweaks. You know, it is possible if there are specific. I think the section with like, you know, recommendations if there are specific things that you would like to remove yourself on I'm not gonna be that guy. You're not gonna be that guy. Okay, okay. Understood. I'm just know that, you know, we couldn't always clarify, you know, That you know there is a member of the board. Why, no, no, go to that. Okay. Understood. So I think the vote to pass it right I, I have not received comments back from Juliet or Terry sorry not tarry Danny. Um, and so I just wanted to wait to hear from them. I'll send another I'll have Corey send another reminder to folks just to, I don't know, whatever. Should we vote on it. I don't know. I'm

[108:16] Not a deadline. What's our deadline. The deadline is December 18 And we will have a meeting before that. So my thought is that, you know, You know, why not wait, just wait and see. And then, you know, maybe there will be a few changes if so desired. And if I like them. Sorry. Our Gets to Eat. Oh. Yeah. Right. Exactly. Um, okay, great. Any other comments on the letter at this time. No. Great. We'll move on to five. See the listening session I'm as I

[109:03] I didn't want to send the email that I did and I hate when I can't fulfill tasks. And so I do apologize that I haven't been able to work on this listening session, I am very excited about it. I just haven't I literally have not had I am and I don't want to throw Danny under the bus. I know he's very busy too clearly he's in Arizona. I don't know what he's doing. Something related to the election, but he hasn't been able to help me, and so I'm, I'm wondering if there's someone who is willing to Help me a little bit on planning this essentially what we need to do is work with city staff, I believe, Itzhak McGee. Who does columns of some sort, I think, Judy, correct me if I'm wrong but Chris Yeah, okay. So he does like comms and see what he would help you know broadcast this events. We would then need to post on other social media platforms to get the word out that we're having this listening session, you know,

[110:08] And so right now I need to work on drafting the pretty much the summary of what this event is and our intention and I haven't done that yet. And so Is there someone I guess. And there's also a couple more things. And some people might find some of those more agreeable. One of them is drafting a letter to the editor, which, instead of just putting out the who, what, where, when, It won't take in the paper it's doing it in a more story sort of way about the need for people in the worries about housing and then there's also sending emails to all the groups, we can possibly think of that might be interested to pass on to their memberships. I'm grading grading just thinking about all this but Um, But, and I am I will write a letter to the editor and I can do that.

[111:01] Because this was partially the conversation. Charlotte about only a couple of us doing all the work. And you have taken on so much this election season and also full time job and everything else. Why, why can we not have the discussion that may be right now this listening session is just too much for all of us, given everything else that we're working on. Is it okay for possible to push this into 2021. How about it be a January or February session. Yes, totally agree. I think it's a lot for everybody. I mean, we're coming up on an election. The community is like a bidding chaos. We don't know if we're going to go into lockdown again, maybe it's just too much. Right, we will Work with zoom are people gonna walk here they gonna figure it out. For all of this, like I would, I think there's a need. There's but we

[112:00] As you so eloquently mentioned earlier, we are a volunteer board with limited amount of time and no pay and we're doing. I think all of us are logging some pretty stiff hours right now on this. And not having Juliet here and not having Danny here to also pitch in on both the conversation and workload. So I think it's okay to tell it. Okay. Yeah. Emotion. To do that, do I Move it we we table or November listening session on the housing insecurity until later date when 2020 is just When this nightmare of a year burns to the ground. Just A second yeah All. All in favor. Testers passes unanimously. I just feel Like a weight. Good. Good. Okay.

[113:00] Everyone take your shot. Okay, great. Moving on. Come from you. Mason. So thanks. Nick, nice. I'm glad you Suggested that because I was going to suggest it. And then I thought, you're going to yell at me, so I thought maybe you Know there's a lot on everybody's plate right now there's no worries. And see how people feel about this because I thought I'm going to say that and then Mason's going to yell at me saying no, we have to hear from the And then you're gonna tell me that's enough. We heard it, but that's enough. For concerned about what we're going to do for the November meeting. Terry I are going to bring you a robust plan for tiny Take Care Terry's drafting it Off. Okay, great. This is great. Perfect. We can and and we will discuss kind of bored involvement. In A MONTH october november

[114:02] Well, and honestly, Danny drops off in March. Right. So we've been doesn't know. Meats, so it'll be a great conversation to as we prepare for an extra rotation in 2021 depending on what's happening. I think Danny has five more years. I am the one who dropped off in March. Oh, I was thinking that day. Okay. He was when he got up. Oh, that's right, that's right. Okay. Right, okay. Brilliant. Moving on. To everyone feel good about moving on. Okay, new business right new business and So, These two were brought up by me. Yes, it's the first the first one about convening a renters committee. And I think all of us have been reached out to at different times by renters in some form or another. And since renters makeup 52% of Boulder, it seems to me that we need to make a concerted effort about incorporating

[115:09] renters issues into this this board in some fashion or if nothing else having a committee where people who are there's feel like And I guess it would obviously be me because I am a renter, and to be able to come to and say, as a renter to a renter, especially since in I mean, there's a lot of renter issues up right now, as we know. So I just think it would, it might be interesting to convene a committee for renters, but More than anything, what it is is a place for renters to go. So it's not like we're producing reports or anything like that unless somebody's coming to us with issues so that we have a point person and somebody's dealing with it and addressing it. Makes You think This would be a half the form of this So I think, Jay. These are a standing committees, right.

[116:03] you're muted. Um, yeah. And we had like a comms a communications committee and we've got a couple standing committees, but It wouldn't be sorry. Go ahead. Go ahead. Teri. Whoa. Are you saying we have a committee amongst our board members were renters can contact us with questions about the various things is that the idea Yeah, so like a great example is when people write in and they're renters and especially around concerns like wasn't it last year jack that I can't remember which apartment or development complex over off the 30th Street. There's a whole bunch of renters. That's where ruin Megan and everybody else came from and they were concerned about their Increases and rates. And yes, it went to all of us as a board, but having one person that's point person on it and say, rent transition this month.

[117:08] That have come up, or this, this, and this, or we've had several people say, why are we not having this so yes one point person within the board for renters to feel like they can connect with That Seems to if everybody wants to do it. It's fine. I'm not gonna like make it an issue but Are there other avenues and there are other city departments and groups that that you know allow that to happen renters can call them there's attorneys or legal advice and that kind of stuff. Well, not everybody can afford legal Then over the city to city to city has Mediators right in order to cold, but I know that you don't talk about, we can call the city.

[118:02] Yes. I don't know what department, it is, but I've talked to many times, and they're very good Because people feel better going that way. The best. They're great. I just I want to jump in. I, I guess I have a couple questions, one is what Terry's talking about, I think we touched on this last past meeting. That there. Are touch points. And this was, I think, talking about the listening session when we discussed this, and we were saying, hey, look, if a listening session, we can help to direct people to the right, you know, City department or place where there's help and there's a, I guess the one question I have Mason about how this will work is how do we Convey To

[119:00] That particular person. Ooh, ooh, who it is. Yeah. So on our query on our dashboard on the housing advisory board where it says chair and vice chair. I think it could just be a simple listing there that says tenant point person or something like that or resident renters renters. Somebody Advocate or renters point yet committee member or something like that. I user, whatever. Yeah. And if ever. There. Is that for catching that I don't know how that happened. Yeah, it's like huge read on my screen. But yeah tapes out. Can you put another setting. A track. Is that each of us. Might I get approached a lot by renters saying, is anybody dealing with this issue is anybody addressing that. And I think if we had one funneled spot, like you said services.

[120:01] You know, or they just feel taken care of and heard I definitely don't want to get into mediating people's issues at all. So I think what we are is just one more funnel to put people in contact with sources, resources, and it's a way for us to kind of collect and amplify a voice of renters that may need a platform. So, so going back to what we talked about earlier. Somebody contacts you Mason and says I have issue x, you just respond to them, on behalf of the had on behalf of have saying you don't know how does that work. So if they haven't Sagan. If they have an issue, say like a tenant landlord dispute, I would recommend Our mediation services. But I think it's important if, like, all of a sudden we got five tenant issues in one week that That bringing that to the board and say, hey, I've gotten these five from this particular landlord. Does anybody want to do. Should we move on this or should we not move on it. I certainly have no desire to put myself in the middle of any of that. I just

[121:14] Think that we should Yeah, I think we should just funnel and collect or point in services. So we all i hasn't everybody been asked where to go or what to do, since we're on the board with something. I think it's just a Okay, maybe Maybe it'll like me. Off the Record. Um, yeah, I definitely have and I think that the way that you described it me you know this this role Mason. Someone who, you know, people feel heard, people want to feel heard, I mean your example about the apartment complex off of 30th Street where these tenants clearly were not getting you know they didn't feel like they were being heard and they

[122:01] Their rights are not being recognized like that. This is scenario where you know that's something that You know, we are the housing advisory board. This is an issue that directly pertains to us, and we should be aware of that and I'm in renter your renter, and then everyone else, I think, is the home. Anyways, we renters definitely need more representation for sure. Are you volunteering to be that person Mason. Yeah, I don't mind. And what I can do is draft like a little paragraph of what I see the role to be Sent out You guys. And if you want to tweak anything or if I'm missing it because then what will happen is when I'm off the board, it can transition to the next, you know, Another interview or whoever. Yeah. Well, on the fence on this is that our role is to have as the advisors. push you over. Just is that what we should be doing. How do we handle that information. I thought it through enough Yes, I'm also wondering, I'm sorry. I was just gonna say, I'm guessing how I'm I'm also wondering how what Jay, thanks to that since the city has is supposedly has that phone number when people are to call. I'm just wondering. Jay, what you thought of that.

[123:14] I mean, it's fine. I mean, if I had was to take a more active role. I mean, typically stuff there are questions about what resources are available and an email goes to have, you know, Korean, I will do monitor the mailbox and respond, but If you have to take a more active role. I think that's fine too. There's no I will also add that we, it is clearly stated on our dashboard that Our board. Informs advisors city council of issues related issues problems related to housing and Like, why can't we be a place where like, why can't we be a space where

[124:04] renters are voicing you know this challenge or this experience, and then we're filtering that and then presenting it to counsel if need be. Right, so You know Council receives, I don't know, thousands of emails per week right there. They're probably not seeing a lot of things right and so our role is to present up you know urgent issues related to housing, and that's communicated to us by our community. So What is what It ties into our role like it's, it is our role. It's interesting that you would bring that up because We are the only advisory board that is not made up of experts. So we're not drafting housing documents we we actually are supposed to be representative like We each got chosen for a reason. I got chosen as a renter, you know, everybody has a role that we're filling you know whether it was family or whatever.

[125:00] And we are to represent the community. So even though there are city resources. It's just giving people a place to feel heard and see in like Standard said earlier about the city not collecting the negative or the non conforming information, having that be a place where we are able to amplify again something that might be slipping through the cracks just leaving it open. But I don't, I don't really need the more work. So I'm okay not doing it too. But I just think it's important, having a platform. So Mason, did you volunteer and if, if so, can you clarify what you want the title to state on the website and I'll make the change tomorrow. Well, I think we're going to it needs for all of us to be on board with it before you create a role. So just a sec Cor Cor e M check if I'm not. No, I'm not muted. Um, I think overall, it does fit into our mission. And I think also that

[126:05] We may be a softer target, so to speak, or some people who are out there to express or to contact a city entity. So from that perspective I you know I think it's relatively little effort on our part. Other Mason's part But You know, or whoever takes that role. But, you know, to put a put a button on the board. Put a you know renters advocate or whatever tag were attached to somebody's name. Who's serving in that position. I think, I think. I don't know how much traffic. We will it you know redirect, but I think it's probably valuable rather than what I've noticed is that it comes randomly to one of us, and only you know one of us. So if we can help to direct to those random emails. I think that's, that's probably a good move.

[127:06] Wouldn't hurt. I just want to say my opinion is, yeah, I don't think they'll be my traffic but if Mason once, watch this, find me. I don't care. When we're in the right But we did set the precedent. When we first started having committees that there'd be a process of of explaining, actually it was Mason that set it up of the purpose and goals of the committee, so we should probably see that, see what Mason wants to do and then approve it, it seems I mean Mason. Isn't that what you had wanted Because as I said that I would do after this meeting is put something together and present it back. I did to that. But again, it's if the board. It's not me just wanting to do more work for me. If the board as a whole. Doesn't feel it's important to give renters in our community.

[128:00] A soft place to come to and a place where they feel heard and seen if you all don't feel that's necessary. I'm not trying to sign up for a committee that everybody's not on board with It smells like Mason. Oh, Maybe you put that together what that role would be and then next meeting. We Look at it, the board votes on it. Awesome. Does that make sense. Yeah, yeah. I like that a lot. Thanks. JOHN. Yep. To vote on that. I don't think so. I think that's next meeting. Great. Back. Yeah, so the next one was discussion around responsive it miss to emerging issues so I can show that I'm going to need a little help because I'm old and can't remember everything, but I think we were talking about the fact that

[129:03] When things happen in our community. Suddenly, so for example, example, thankfully, it didn't. It affected. A lot of people like say for the fire when it displays 2000 homes within Boulder County 2000 families in between Boulder County right away and all, but for families was the last count I had it could have been different. Didn't have a we're seeking a place, everybody else was housed with friends or family. In emerging situations do and we talked about occupancy limits. Do we want to have some form of a way within these month long periods to respond to something. If we have, I don't know, I just felt like it was something we should talk about because it felt things pop up. Yeah, I think for me, Mason in thinking about that and that example of the fire, for instance.

[130:01] And with our structures. I think in a way you answer the question for me right there. It's like our ability to Respond and say some way to those kinds of issues is probably well outside of the time frame of that required response. So I don't know that, you know, Not feeling it actually emergency type issues. I don't know that we could actually do much they're Going to dance. The piece about occupancy that we were talking about with this one. Why, what was it about occupancy that when we're oh it's because that's why I write it all just hit me governor polis had come out with a statement. Regarding occupancy limits is during coven now in that situation, it was sent out to everybody would have put together a letter saying that we

[131:07] Agree and encourage or advise City Council to respond to this as well. That's what it was about. Yep. Yeah, exactly. And and As expressed in the letter. I mean, the frustrations. I felt about not being reached out to as the The housing advisory board on this very important issue related to housing. That just kind of set a little another flame. And so I think We are limited in our ability to meet as a group and discuss emerging issues because the news comes and goes so quickly. Um, so did you have. I don't think that we discussed, you and I, any

[132:00] No, there was no what next, it was just a do we want to have a conversation about this because Paula, set it out, and there was no response from city council like he sent it out in a couple of different forms. Right. Right. Yeah, and had said let's Let's put a stopper sees on the occupancy enforcement. And we never got any response from city council or he didn't get response and so on the final one, I think it was like a mandate which I think jays talking about later. Some type of response to the coven peace and occupants. I'm not sure. And yeah, it was just a do we want to put air in us and talk And I just add a little bit more context. So I mean, your, your policies executive order about Waving or Not enforcing occupancy limits that's been around since May, so it was more that it's something that went to work. With very short notice. So council having a discussion about, is this something that we want to talk about

[133:02] I think what might recall from that conversation that we had was does have want to be able to inform even those early discussions. If there's a they are going to have a discussion about occupancy and I think have will certainly be involved in that because there will be a formal public process behind that. But sort of these things that come up in the political cycle. It's very short and Easy to get involved and get had basically to be able to make friends. But I've been trying to provide as much information or timely information based on what I've been hearing from you guys. Like, that's why I shared the updated report from the tough or something like That yeah I'm better job giving you guys the information. So you can discuss it. Are you were you hoping Mason, that the board would be able to provide counsel with like

[134:02] As you said, like a letter or some sort of Maybe why Yeah, we recognize this or executive order and we, you know, you know, this should be enacted in our city or whatever. Yeah. Maybe Percival or maybe you know if we're advising council. And something like this comes across and they are going to have a discussion about it on a Tuesday meeting and the information came out the Tuesday before And we want to send a paragraph to counsel saying we've reviewed this and as a border have endorsed it very encouraging you to act on it. And then again, I just think it's open for discussion. I just, if we advise doing want to advise on emerging Yeah. Right. I mean, everyone can send individual individually and letters to counsel it

[135:00] I would like us to be able to respond to emerging issues quicker but you know the limited time that we have to be together to be together is so you know challenging and, you know, Put the strain on what we can do in some regards, And when, how would you like to Move forward with this Mason. Oh, I just thought we should talk about it. I don't have to do anything. I just think we yeah we can let go away into the air. I just thought it was you know Was good I yeah I think that it was you know worth talking about. And I think that It's probably best left to just the individual response in a way because we're not going to be able to, I don't just, I just don't see how we're going to be able to put together you know cogent response from the whole board on such short notice.

[136:03] In general, so maybe it is best left just, you know, as individuals, if something comes up and somebody writes a letter and sends it around all the board members and all the board members sign on to it. You know, we can do that. Probably best left informal Sounds good. Here he wants informal because he wants to move on and he's muted. I would like to talk about occupancy. Well, that's good. Maybe. Right. Now's not the time to do When you put it on the agenda for next Time. Next time agenda. That, that, yes. Consider it Consider it done, Terry. There you go, then. Okay. Um, are we okay with moving on to manage staff. Yep. Yep. All right, you're on the spot. Jay, get off the couch.

[137:13] His Presentation right Now muted. Now the couch was super comfortable Okay. So I just have two things for you. One was the Update on governor's executive order. So that was Charlotte Mason requested. I just go over it really quickly. But also just wanted to highlight the email that Kristen Heiser sent out. So basically, she provided some context for you know how the task forces formed And I would really recommend reading that. Well, I guess the listening session has been postponed till next year, but It does provide some really helpful context in terms of what's happening statewide and what the recommendations are and a lot of the recommendations were adopted by the governor, which is great news and think says a lot about Rachel friend and her ability to influence the overall process.

[138:17] But the big thing is from that October 15 executive order is to continue that 30 day notice. So that's basically when tenants are have additional time to basically to pay any sort of back rent. It also ordered dolla department of local affairs to create a model rent repayment agreement and I just found out that bar, how the local rental Association has been sending that to their members. Which I think is great. There's a prohibition. I mean the big elements of prohibition on the penalty for faith. And it requires landlords to actually notify the tenant of the CDC order which is basically if you, if a tenant signs declaration saying that they cannot pay rent for any reason, related to Clovis 19 they're protected from addiction.

[139:16] But keep in mind this is only effective for 30 days, which is sort of the governor's habit. He only does things for 30 days at a time. And what we'll do is likely extended and I think sort of conventional wisdom, it'll get continued through the end of the year, Charlotte. Just that. And notice landlord have to be provided like is are those multilingual notices is like English and Spanish or like You know, um, I don't that that wasn't spelled out in his executive order but you brought that up in an email in the last month and I know that The group that has been coordinating the sort of the region wide response discuss that. And they do have those resources that we sent out to the group. So it's not officially required, but I think it's common practice. Great.

[140:16] Anything else about that. I have one other update for you. If no Hair your Hair gets any taller. So, You guys mentioned, Terry. Terry, I'm sorry. Um, What's his name, who's not who's Gay Danny. So, the city is beginning recruitment for a new members board members on December 17 They're starting at a little early this year, and it'll end on January 28 and then they will Basically every year. If you remember they send out the questions for the boards to review it and make sure are no changes. I think there were quite a few changes. Last year, but I will send that to the group. And if you have changes that you'd like to see made me know

[141:17] Say, December 17 through January 18 Yes, that's the recruitment period, but the need to be finalized by the 17th of November. So I will send that out. You can take a look And I just need to confirm with the clerk's office if we're okay with those are not I don't think there's any big changes since last year but let you guys decide. Any. Does that make sense. Any questions about that. Thank you, Jay. Yeah, okay. Anything else You guys need to know questions.

[142:03] No. Okay. I was thinking about mailing you have some data questions, but we'll save that. We're making progress missing. Longer than we would like also Okay. And well, it's 822 Are there any additional things Are we debriefing We're going to debrief now. Yeah. Yeah. So I just want to talk a little bit about the process of how we start started this and I'm Terry, you can feel free to leave the room if you need to. Know, Is, you know, I call them binds. Some people call them conflicts, whatever are always challenging and we definitely have had a tough board in the very beginning where we were all challenged with binds a lot

[143:09] And everybody from what I see like wants to be seen and heard. And, um, It's challenging because we're all passionate about what we're working on. And who what we're bringing to the table and we are making recommendations on people's lives and dignity and housing and it's For some of us, I know myself. I can be quite unyielding in some of those areas. It's just, it's really hard for me not to seek a high bar and put all my time and effort into putting our best foot forward, whenever if we're going to do something. Doing it really well. So one I want to say I appreciate everybody for putting up with my BS, to some degree, because I i'm I'm definitely passionate and I can get hot headed around certain issues. And so I'm apologize. I apologize if you like Charlotte got definitely extra to be going. Let's go.

[144:18] Um, but it comes down to just being passionate. I just want to honor that with everybody, including Judy and I lock horns. The most on different things and I know we both equally drive each other nuts on on many, many occasions and But I appreciate your dedication and hard work. I appreciate that you've done probably four times more work than any of us on this board have done you dance circles around us on so many things. And we would not be half the board that we are. If it wasn't for you and the contributions that you've made to this group, honestly, you will be sadly missed At the end of this, and I hope that we always find a way to continue to work together. So I own and apologize. My locking of the horns with you on this side and

[145:08] It doesn't have to change my opinion on how I feel about things, but I feel like you and I've come a long way in our relationship. Anyway, and just because I don't like a format a structure or process doesn't mean I don't appreciate you guys Thank you. Well, said did. Oh. Thank you, Judy. Your hard work doesn't go unnoticed. At all. Super Woman Yeah. All right. This is a great meeting folks we're missing a few soldiers. But, you know, we'll carry on with our Corum

[146:01] Else. Yeah. Thank you for that. Thank you all please email me with questions, concerns, um, other Other things cool Awesome. Motion to adjourn the meeting. And we're early Mm hmm. Can I get a Second, Oh, yeah. We're a journey. All the way on favor Everyone Good night, everyone. Thanks. Thanks. Everybody. You're welcome. Tonight. Tonight I Bye.