July 12, 2023 — Design Advisory Board Regular Meeting

Transcript

Captions from City of Boulder YouTube recording.

[0:00] Right. Okay. I'd like. Would like to call the order the the designed bolt city of Boulder Design Advisory Board meeting for July the twelfth, 2,003. I'm sorry. 2,023, and I guess the next thing we need to do is to move into public participation is is Devon on the Todd, I'll I'll I'll I'll run that part and just go go go for our rules of decorum real quick. Just share my screen here. all right. Oh, there we go. Okay. Can you guys all see that? So this is this is the the rules of decor for this evenings, meeting for public participation guidelines that are setting meetings. the city has engaged with community members to co-create a vision for productive, meaningful, and inclusive civic conversations. this vision supports physical and emotional safety for community members, staff

[1:14] and board and commission members as well as democracy for people of all ages, identities, lived experiences and political perspectives. for more information about this vision and the community engagement processes. You can. certainly visit our website listed here. the following are examples of rules of decorum found in the Boulder revised Code and other guidelines that support this vision. these will be upheld. During this meeting all remarks and testimony shall be limited to matters related to city business. No participants shall make threats or use other forms of intimidation against any person. obscenity, racial epithets, and other speech and behavior that disrupts or otherwise impedes the ability to conduct the meeting are prohibited. participants are required to identify themselves, using the name they are commonly known by, and individuals must display their whole name. before being allowed to speak online.

[2:13] currently, only audio testimony is permitted online in this platform. you're in Zoom Webinar right now. So if if you would like to speak this evening we have a couple of options. You can hover over the bottom and raise your hand. When it's your turn. I will adjust the settings so that you can unmute yourself and speak if you are on the phone with us this evening, which I don't see anybody on the phone but you can dot dial star 9, which will raise your hand and let's see. Oh, let's see. go back to There's also If you. There's one other option for raising your hand. If you hover over the reactions, button it will also give you the option to raise hand

[3:06] and that I'll turn it back over to you. Todd, and we can start public participation. Okay. so if there is anyone here from the public that would like to speak. now is the time to raise your hand. So this is public participation not related to the projects that we're reviewing doesn't look like we have any. I think we've got one one. Okay. so Lynn Siegel. I'll promote her to speak. and so I can speak about 2206 pearl. yes or no

[4:02] particular topic. That's a hearing. Yeah. I guess. Then I'll use my time differently. I usually speak impromptu. so I'll have to manage. I guess. The latest thing that I'm concerned about is from last night. Actually, it's the millennium project which really puts. I think, as Brendan said, kind of harsh face on bolder when you come into town, and I think it does matter the appearance of this place when you come here. you know your first impressions, and it's a big wall of a a, a lot of mass. it's increasing that capacity of

[5:01] 296 hotel rooms to 930 or something. bedrooms for students rented out individually, so making even more than a hotel would make. But see, you is taking in the revenue and the cities lost our sales tax revenue out of that space. granted that we're going to have something on the hill. there are. We were reservations expressed last night about the management of parking up on the hill. That's going to make things difficult, you know, as as boulder expands, and particularly with the with the see you South Project there's you. You've got your job cut out for you because the city is impacted just phenomenally from that. You know, my mom and dad met in the hiking club at See you. And he complained about older in 1,950.

[6:05] Let's see, it would be about 1,950 even that it was too big at 35,000 people. And that's what just the Cu campus handles now. And so this kind of an impact on a relatively small town, you know, in the middle of the country is really too much to take, and and the example of the millennium you know we lost. We're losing. We're losing our charm. The charm is the millennium the Kind of a James hunter? I don't know that it is a James center. Maybe it is, but I mean, I've I'm pretty upset because we lost a James Hunter 6.1 million dollar house at the base of the the of Flagstaff Mountain in the Wildlife interface zone. You know the the

[7:00] the fire zone that was rock, solid. that will that would never burn down. It's made of rock. And it was passed through landmarks design review. So the millennium really needed to stay the way it was. It needed to be kept for sales, tax for boulder, not for, see you. We can't be compliant to see you so so much as we are done. Thanks. thank you, Lynn. Do we have any others for the this sort of open participation. Good! no other hands are raised. no other hands are raised. Okay. so we will have public participation. Again, during the discussion of the particular projects. let me. let's approve the minutes, and then we'll get into the the discussion item. So we have the minutes from the April twelfth 2023 min meeting. Can I get a motion to approve those minutes?

[8:07] I moved. We approved the minutes. Did did anyone give Devin, any comments on the minutes earlier today, at his request, if if there are any changes. okay, all right. So can. Is there a second to approve them. Then. Okay, I'll be approving the minutes. Okay, great. And let me just do a roll call. we got. We have quite a few people here right now, but what I'd like to do is if we can, is just introduce the dab members and the city staff people. And then when we get to the project, we will introduce the applicant. the applicant and their team kind of one at a time, if that's all right. So

[9:01] let me introduce myself. Todd, Brian, Dab Chairperson. Brendan, Ash. Yeah. Matthew Scheck's night, or Deb. Okay. Then we also have colony. Amanda Chandler, Ml. Charles. I think that's the rest of the the city team. And am I welcome to our for a little more? Okay. all right. So that's a that's a bit of a roll call. So let's move into the discussion items. And we were talking earlier about

[10:01] whether or not both of the applicants for the 2 projects that we're reviewing are here right now, and it looks like they are. So if you're both here welcome, it might make sense for us to switch the the sequence of the 2 projects. We had the 2206, Pearl Street project listed first, and then the 48, 45 per least circle project. Second. we anticipate that we will take less time talking about the the 48 45 each pearl circle. So if we can switch the the sequence of those that might work better for our discussion. So Kalani informed me that we need a motion to switch those because of the they're officially in the agenda with the 22 Pearl Street project first, so

[11:01] can can one of the dab members make a motion to switch those. I motion to switch the discussion items and a second on that right? Okay, so dad, members in favor of switching them signify, okay, so we will start. I hope that's okay with the applicants. We will start with the 48 45 Pearl East Circle project. And what I'd like to ask Chandler to do is to give a brief introduction, and then we'll ask the applicant for approximately a 10 min presentation before we get into the discussion. So could we execute both of those? And then back to kind of where we are. Sure. Thanks. good evening. Everyone. Chandler Van Scott, principal planner, and a case manager for both the projects that are being reviewed by the board tonight. so the first 1 48 45 early circle

[12:10] is currently in for Site Review. They've had 2 rounds of comments this. Went to planning Warden City Council as concept plan in 2,021, and was referred to the Board by Council at that time. the projects just briefly. They'll they'll get into a lot more detail. But three-story 45 foot tall building roughly 115,000 square feet and change designed for life sciences built or proposed to be built in the per lease business Park, and what is now a service parking lot between 2 existing buildings? that's probably it. I think I think the applicant will cover everything else that we need to know. Just want to know where they are in the process.

[13:03] so there is the inside your view. 2 2 rounds of review with staff. So they've been issued. 2 sets of comments. So from Staff's perspective, they're they're getting closer to preliminary approval on schedule for planning board call up cool. But this is the first time that the dab is reviewed. This, as far as I know. Correct. Okay. okay, who's leading the presentation? We're gonna take it, I think. Can you you guys can hear us? Yep, it looks like it. So My name is Alex Garrison. I have here Lenny as well as Sierra. So we're we're part of against the team, and it looks like Eric is also on the on the call there. he's the the project manager for the project. And then Jennifer is the building owner. So we're gonna we're gonna go ahead and run through here a 10 min presentation. So let me pull up my screen. Give me a moment.

[14:10] Okay, it looks like you can probably see this. let's see. So we wanted to credit briefly, just cover. Why, we're here. just kind of give everyone context and then and really explain at a high level what our design. Evolution has been to date. so first, as, as mentioned by Chandler, we were referred to the dab by city council last year, I believe, and really citing a couple of items one of them being energy performance of the building as well as creating a more quality connection to Pearl Parkway. And then finally a couple of comments that weren't official, but from the planning board regarding mass and scale So Chandler mentioned. one of the main things that we did is we remove the Fourth Level bringing this building really into zoning compliance. we've also reduced the overall square footage from the original concept by about 30,000 square feet.

[15:04] we've also taken a much more careful look at the mass and scale of the building created a break point at the midpoint as well as removed the larger current wall elements to make this building a lot more compatible with the the current business park architecture. and then finally, we introduced a Northern facing lobby, which is a long pearl parkway that creates a direct connection to the multimodal path and also accesses bike facilities both to the public as well as the building on the inside. So it really has 2 faces. Now to the building. 2 front faces. so just kind of very briefly, you know, it's it's in this pearl east business part. You can see here the project site the building is essentially going to occupy what is currently a parking lot. along the northern edge of the site. the site itself is light, industrial or industrial. G. here you can see where the campus is. So it's it's really in that kind of in that area of boulder that is intended for research and manufacturing. and in this case we are targeting live science. So this building is designed for life. Science functions.

[16:12] So in terms of the site a little bit more closely here you can see where the building is relative to the other projects. Everything else on site is existing. and in terms of the in terms of the sorry. I don't think my team could see this. So let me pull it out a little bit. in terms of the the buildings. You can see the context. They're all 3 story buildings. on campus couple or 2 really breaking glasses. Kind of the the aesthetic. And so we took that approach. Give me a little bit here, Oops. Sorry. Let me jump back. One slide. It jumped on me So we took that approach, and and this is just for reference what the original concept that we came in with. you can see here the 4 stories in the much more higher increase of curtain wall, and what we did with that is, we really evolved the design to be much more compatible. As I mentioned so the the building is now 3 stories. The the predominant architecture is punched brick window aesthetic

[17:16] which is it? Kind of has a lower profile as well as as a better solar performance. And then we created a mass break in the middle of the building, which when you zoom out this is an elevation it shows you basically our building the middle one here. This proposed in context to its adjacent business part buildings. And you can see across the lot now. there is a much more compatible, much more sort of rhythmic. you know. Kind of quality to this building as opposed to earlier. And one thing to note, too, is a lot of these buildings. We're designed. you know. Obviously, there's the zoning Max height. But another aspect of this is that trees on campus are very mature So they're, you know, all a little bit taller than the building. So this building kind of fits within that aesthetic

[18:03] and we've also it's from the landscape perspective really focused on improving the landscape around the building. So you can see some a images of the the project from the corners. you know, we really took an eye towards designing this building to have that, as I mentioned that kind of break in mass so that there doesn't feel to be any large expanses of glass or any other type of facade. So you can see right here in my cursor the main mass. Break point and then you can see, you know, cross Pearl Parkway, which is this image where my cursor is. you can see how the building looks as well as the other corners. Another aspect to this is that we we This building is lead. it's it's I think it's shooting for lead gold. I forget the exact certification. But the you know, another aspect to what we you know, what we really focused on was sustainability and energy performance. So the building, actually, it relates, from the east, south, west, and north, it relates to the solar exposure so that is achieved not only with high efficiency. Installation The brick itself is also a a very good material.

[19:15] But we I have to introduce solar shading along the south, east, and west size of the building to prevent solar eui, or energy use intensity. for the building. And this is just kind of a detail of what that looks like part of our approach to this as well as we wanted to create a little bit more depth and the the side to provide more texture. So these these windows are set in approximately 8 to a foot from the brick face. And so you can see the elevations here. laid out so essentially, what, as I mentioned, what we've done is we've created this mass break which occupies that lobby space in between really kind of 2 sides of the building, so to speak. And we've also introduced a slightly larger punches along the the ends of the building to create this differentiation and mass through a transfer as opposed to a mass, break in the middle

[20:15] in terms of pallid. We took the approach that we wanted to make this building much more connected to the business park as it exists. So we are using a brick that's very similar in tone. And introducing elements of of wood and the softets of the the balcony. And then, really, naturally kind of naturally based other material choices, for instance. kind of a a medium grade granted. in a concrete that's slightly It's not just white concrete. It's it's more of a beige concrete. And then metals that have a warm tone to them as well. So do the overall aesthetic is not only like the business part, but also much more kind of natural in its approach. And so we have some renderings here just to show what this looks like. So this is from the internal street of the business park. you can see this is the one side of the lobby. where it's essentially you're entering, and you can kind of get a sense of what the solar shades

[21:13] how they look relative to the overall brick, punched static of the building. and then on the north side. So just sort of behind the trees here, when my cursor is, that's Pearl Parkway. You can see the the connection that we've added to the north. that is obviously for the building. we've introduced the bike parking box that's inside of the building right off of this this entry. So it's actually going to be a really nice sort of primary entry for bike commuters. Come into the building and then on the ends of the building. We have also exterior bike parking that are shaded under shaded canopy structures that we can. We can share in the model that we also have available to to look at today. So overall, you can kind of see how this looks to the you know the corners of the building and then kind of the buildings relationship to the rest of the business part. and this chandler already mentioned, I mean, we we lower the height, and we've worked with with with site review to, you know. Get this building into compliance and not pursue that additional floor that we had originally.

[22:23] And then, just to kind of sum up in terms of the community amenities. just to sort of focus on that As I mentioned these, where my cursor is on either side of the building, on the sort of the corners. which are these landscape zones between buildings. Those are where the bike parking that are publicly available on the exterior are located, and those are under canopies, shade structures. we also, as you can see, have introduced a lot of landscaping. A lot of this is a low water prairie, you know. folder, appropriate landscaping, and as well as a lot more trees. And then finally, as as I already mentioned, the the connections to the multi half here in the north where you can enter the lobby from from the north, and that connects all the way through to the south. So

[23:09] this is a essentially a pass through lobby. So that's it. I think I've got a few seconds here. But that's That's what we brought today to share. So you you said you had a a 3D model that we can, that we can also look at. Pull that up. Sure, yeah, all right. Yeah, those are. This is usually really really helpful in our discussion. So, dab members, do you have any questions clarifying questions about what's been presented before we get into the discussion. I had one question in terms of brick. color in this.

[24:02] in the parkway. Is there any? There's no larger requirements for brick colors or any of that nature. I'm assuming. in terms of the design guidelines. Correct? Yeah, there, there's no formal requirements, but it's our intent to make the to make it feel consistent. Okay. any other clarifying questions on the presentation? Okay, before we get into the discussion? we should see if there are any. If if there's any public participation around this particular project it. If you'd like to speak about this project, please raise your hand. Looks like we have one. So a hit.

[25:04] one hand raised so far. Lynn Siegel Lynn, give me just 1 s to promote you. Yeah, I love the the solar it. You Ti solar use intense or energy use intensity. EU? I like that term. I hadn't heard it before on the windows being recessed. and it also has a nice aesthetic, and I think you, as far as coloring with your brick, it might be nice to have some kind of a coordination between different buildings so that they're not all the same color, you know that, like the color scheme.

[26:00] changes periodically between one after the other business part and the the other consideration here is that people are not using business parks nearly so much, since Covid and there should be the consideration that there might be multiple users and trade offs within the structures within and spaces within these buildings. So that they're used to the Max. And that's it done. Thanks. Okay, thank you. Okay, that's all it looks like, that's all the public participation we have. So generally, what we start with is there's a kind of an overall positive comment from each of the dab members before we get into the discussion. So to do, any of you have any particular comments that you'd like to start off with just sort of overarching

[27:07] positivity. I can start if no one else wants to. I think just a couple of things we we'll speak about more seem to be relevant criteria. To discuss today is the landscape, and I'm I I hope, to hear a little bit more. I about the interior landscaping and courtyard? that faces south. I know that that's kind of interior street and parking and whatnot. So it looks like some nice effort has been put towards making those connections and like to see more about that. And then the the you know, admirable energy efficiency goals of the project. It's nice to see a big project like this, you know, trying to achieve a higher level of performance.

[28:08] And so you know it' be nice to hear about a little more about that along the way. but you know. kudos for including that as a project goal and and trying to see it through. And then finally, the you know, the character and massing. I think that's a criteria we'll talk about today. I feel like whatever instigated the reduction of the building height or removal of the upper floor. seems to have been a good move. I'm not sure about programmatically. But I feel like that probably had the biggest immediate effect of scaling the building to something we, you know, consider contextually, appropriate. So I think that's all I have for now. Okay, good. Matthew Steven or Brendan. Sure, I can jump in. yeah, I agree with what Matt said, and it was nice to see your.

[29:06] You know your regional design. and I think, yeah, the scale has, you know, is much more appropriate. I also like that, you know, while the rest of the you know, business part really does have this really strong horizontal. bias. Yours does, too. But I like how you have to break. you know, from first second floor. Kind of those columns in between. going vertical. I think it's a nice little bit of a change. you know, from the rest of the business park. I you know some of the landscape moves that I've seen here. I really, I really like, you know, kind of I like how that first floor is kind of cut into the landscape. you know. Almost it sets off the upper brick portion. You know that whole mass is kind of set back in

[30:02] which is nice, and it'll it'll read that way almost like that brick is floating a little bit. I think that's and of all I have. Okay. Brendan. yeah, I I think that by lowering the building I the images that we saw previously. I think that this is a huge improvement on the building at this scale seems really appropriate to me for this part of town in particular, and like, Steven said. It's it's a good a good departure from this this horizontal banding with the ribbon windows. It's all kind of all over the our office parks of boulder right now. I that the first out that first elevation or re rendering that we saw. I really appreciate how.

[31:05] you know. Often in in our dad meetings we talk about differentiating between sort of the public lobby spaces from the more private office workspaces. I think that this was. This is really successful in doing that. it's clear where the entry is. It's you know, there's a there's a good rhythm that's established on this elevation with the windows and the punched openings. And then I like the connection with just the complete change in in materiality and sort of the modern design departure from the more traditional nod to older brick design. So overall, I think it. I think the scale and masing of it is is lovely. Okay. I think I would only add to what you all have said.

[32:04] One of the things that I really noticed when I was driving around out there this morning is that I really like the the way that you sort of updated. What's there now in on this campus? You've sort of taken those elements that are exist, and you've really updated them in a I think, in a very cool way. So oh, overall, I think that that's a one of the more striking elements of it. so, ml, I wanted also wanted to bring you into the discussion. Do you want it? Is there anything you want to? kind of Add to the discussion at this point from a planning board perspective. yeah, thank you to it so much. I agree with what's been said. And Brendan to acknowledged that taking off that floor and scaling this the way you've done. kudos, I think that you have made you have heard what We saw this on planning board as a concept plan.

[33:13] the other piece that I will comes up on is the level of articulation you are starting to propose around the sun. I saw that you had wind roses on your analysis. I am not exactly sure how that informed the building, but I totally appreciate that there is a a manifestation of environmental responses that we can see, i. E. The window overhangs the little audience and other things. So I I think that this project has come up a long way since the we saw the consequ on planning board. And I congratulate you that

[34:06] okay, so we have. It's now 4, 37 and I don't know if we can spend 25 min on the discussion and wrap up this this project by 5, if we can. I'd kind of like to do that, but that means we're going to have to be somewhat concise in the discussion. So I'm not sure the topics. I know Matthew mentioned. the landscape he mentioned. We've talked about character and massing we've talked about. We sort of touched on materiality. we've touched on energy, although I don't know there's much to discuss. There are there other topics that we want to cover in the discussion? Yeah. we're part of those that intro

[35:05] the a couple of items that I was hoping we could just briefly touch on would be the the fenestration and kind of a million patterning within these large punched openings, and then And then, additionally, if we could touch on sort of the out outdoor, like public publicly engaged spaces outdoor patios, and and spaces that that office users or or, you know, building users couldn't can enjoy sort of the landscape rather than I mean, it is very nice, nicely designed landscape, but it's all. There's not a lot of you know, seating, for example. So And then I was hoping we could touch on the mechanical screen. But that's so. Those 3 things.

[36:06] oh, any other ones that we haven't touched on topics. either Stephen or Matthew. Yeah, kind of bear, I mean, sort of already sort of came up. But I'd like to talk a little bit about to break color itself. The brick color. Okay? All right. anything else on the material at materiality other than the brick color that we want to talk about to them. I still primarily just want to have a tour around the base of the building, and just understand how the building meets the ground on each side, and and how it makes its connections to the campus. Okay? All right. Well, that's a few things to cover here.

[37:00] If I could suggest something that might be a good place to start. Maybe the tour that Matthew is talking about kind of around the outside of the building would be a would be helpful to get kind of get oriented and look at. We could look at the outdoor public space the landscaping. and anything else that comes up in that in that discussion. So if you could walk us through that Alex. absolutely your team, that'd be great. Okay, yeah. So we'll we'll start So we're on Pearl Parkway, and we are on the the west side. And so we're going to walk around the building from there. and so, you know, to kind of quickly touch on the interstitial spaces between the existing building, which is here on the right and and the the new building. Here you can see one of those 5 parking areas with the the canopies on top.

[38:01] One thing that I did not mention to speak to the seating is that there is a and we don't have the furniture model. But there is a patio in here right in here. That's about 3,000 square feet give or take with some basically kind of stadium seating incorporated. So that's that's a seating zone that we have on the west side of the building. So I'm gonna go back down here to the sidewalk. And so, as your, this is the multimodal path that we're on, so you can see the building essentially is that punched a stake with I I forget who said it, but the the first floor has that kind of floating aspect An interesting part of this building is that it's partially in the flood zone. So part of this is actually birming that is required for for flood mitigation, which we took advantage of as as a design feature. So along the front sort of buffer in between the sidewalk and the building is a series of different pockets of landscape with different types of species that creates variation. along along the edge here on the multiple path.

[39:08] So here is the first mass break. And this is really that northern entrance that I mentioned. Here you can see where essentially the building sets in and the creates the The that secondary entry from the lobby and as well as the bike box parking here. One thing to to talk about is is as far as those wind roses and why we included those in the presentation. We actually thought carefully about when direction. And so we position 2 balconies with kind of 3 sided protection, as basically on the in size of the the building, or rather the Co. That kind of an apple. So we started with canopies or or sorry balconies that were on the edges. We move them to the inside to help with mitigate against winter wind to let people sit out there more during

[40:01] throughout the seasons. So then, one thing that we also did with this building to create a little bit more variation. We didn't want to go too crazy in terms of creating too many moves. We wanted to kind of keep it a little bit more simple is that we have on the right here the mass and it's floating above the glass on the first floor and then at the mass, break it transitions to a brick frame that engages the ground at the columns, and has it punched kind of arcade almost language at the base, so it creates the kind of a subtle variation between left and right. and so moving around the building a little faster here. Moving around the building. Here's another set of bike parking So essentially, the idea here is, especially if you're on the multimodal path on Pearl Parkway. the sidewalk connections that get you from the pathway over to that kind of central spy to the business park. We leverage those sidewalks to create areas where you can basically come in, park your bike and then go into the site. If you're a biker.

[41:07] so it's almost like a threshold here. as far as how we are primarily serving the building. We integrated a loading dock here on the right, as well as a garage for some underground parking below the building. We integrated that into this side of the facade and then also included the generator and a few other service items here on the right. and we are using louvers it's kind of using the same color as the the dark metal scandrel to Keep with the facade texture, but trying to, you know, somewhat disguise their appearance. So going further to the left. here, you can see the first corner of the building along the interior side interior of the of the site Another aspect to this building is, we obviously have to deal with storm water, and we have to treat it so. We we included in the landscape design a lot of emphasis on rain gardens. So this

[42:13] that's where my cursor is is a rain garden. The the materiality here is not rendered quite right. These rain gardens would have grasses, and and it would be a little bit taller and more lush than what we're showing, but you can get a sense of the scale of that. And then the sidewalks. We've also added to the site. We've added sidewalks that you can basically walk all the way across. if you were out there today, you would notice that currently, there's really only continuous sidewalk on the south side of the street. And as part of the improvements for this building, we've we've connected basically the existing going here. We've connected it. The sidewalk on the north side of the street, over to the other existing building. Here, on the on this side, you can see on the south you can see the primary entry, or or rather the the interior entry. we've included a drop off zone in front. So it's basically kind of a lay by a curve cut here where people basically would be dropped off and they can walk in. we really wanted to promote this concept

[43:15] of, you know, multimodal. So you know, there's not parking directly in front of the entrance and rather people would park elsewhere and walk to the site. one thing that's not part of this project, but it's part of the improvements of Pearl East is that we've been. We've added a essentially an amenity building as well as a food truck kind of plaza. So the intent is you would leave this building, walk down down the side lock and go over the food trucks to promote this more active community. experience. So this is the mass break above the south entry. So you can see here the mass break. has again the kind of protected can or protected balconies we talked about on the other side. you can also see here in terms of the articulation of the mass, the transition from the frame that needs the ground

[44:04] to the frame that's floating. which, in our opinion, really helps to kind of reduce the appearance of mass on this building, and it it makes the building feel much kind of lighter. and I think, Steven, as you pointed out and I forgot to mention we did really focus on this idea of expressing more of a vertical articulation in the windows specifically to what you were talking about in terms of horizontality. So we wanted this ability to really have a better kind of modulation. since it is a little bit longer. you know, we were still trying to meet the performers of our of our client to make this building viable. So we you know, we have slightly larger floor plates than we did to help offset the loss of floor The building still is overall smaller, but we we use that articulation to help break up the mass. Yeah, as you can see. And then finally, just one more point here. Sorry. we on on the left side here the on the south. we're introducing a few site walls as well as some basically some gravel and native grass kind of articulation. That is really all about dealing with water and kind of celebrating rainwater retention and and water quality treatment.

[45:20] And you can see that it kind of it starts a little bit high here on the right, and then it starts to taper off as it meets the street over on the on the left side here. and then let me just see if there's a little bit more here. So then here you can see just sort of the the final end of the building. Here, this, this, these windows have views of flat iron. So this is on the left side, and then Here's that plaza I mentioned with. There's no furniture here but You can imagine we would have tables and and chairs and potentially some umbrellas. so I can go anywhere else you would like me to to go to. I think, just because we're short on time. I I would like to to jump into the window discussion. And it's just

[46:06] just a really quick con. We actually have one other comment. and your material the board you have wood, and I Thought I remember you saying that was on the balcony, but I didn't see any wood. Yes, sorry. I forgot to point that out. And actually, I think the wood didn't come in. So the wood, the what is here? Where it's actually white? That's supposed to be the. That's right. Yeah, we we have explored other locations. But the thing about wood, obviously in Colorado is it deteriorates really fast? So we just we put it really where we could So we kept it on the so. okay, so going. Thank you. So going to the windows. I totally appreciate and understand. You know, the wanting to achieve those those lines of verticality on this design.

[47:00] And I think that the window millions make a lot of sense when you start going to the, you know. 6, 7, 8 Bay, you know, ribbon window type design that's on part of the building, but not all of it all at the building. But I think when you get to these 2 bay window punched openings with the with the sun shades, it's it. Just it looks like it's trying to be sort of a traditional window size, but it it's kind of missing. It's it's confusing my eye on. As to the human scale of it. So it's like it wants to be. It's sort of neither here and we're there. It's not. It's not a ribbon window. It's not a big storefront, and it's also not necessarily a traditional punched opening. All the the dimensions suggest that it is kind of. But I think just that center moan is I'm having a a hard time with it, like I want

[48:00] would think about maybe adding some type of a for us online to suggest some type of human scale. just my first reaction to the to that particular size of window. Yeah, can I jump in real quick? Because I totally agree. And there's that the building along Foothills Parkway, one of the Cu buildings, if you can. You hold the position? because I think we can annotate. And let's see if I can annotate. they have, is it? Let me annotate. I don't know if it does shoot. No, maybe They have no saying. Let me anything. there's it's a long. I can't remember the address, but it's a C. Billing. It's similar size and scale. And what they've done is they actually have 2 over 2 windows. Which sounds funny, but it they're oversized like this. And you might just look at that. you know, and adding that horizontal piece, but not like a transom up high, but literally like across the middle

[49:10] and see what that might look like. But I agree there's something like it's not quite there yet. the other thing along the lines with the window. If you zip over to this north west side of the building. I really like how you guys have those corner windows wrapping and they keep going around kinda to the front. you have like the corner. And then you have the one day of the 4 or 5 paired windows, and then you start the rhythm of the individual punches. And I wonder you know again I don't got clean now the right answer. But I'm wonder if you went that one like one more over that that would help You get kind of like a one-third two-third across that whole

[50:05] elevation it might cause. It's like, I'm keep partly wants the 2 masses to be a little more different. And I think you've started that with that corner, and, like you said, it's not meeting the ground, you know, on this side of the building. I don't know if that makes sense. I think it does. Yeah, we we understand what you're saying. And I like, I said, I don't know. That's right. It's just for those things like, Oh, it's what it looks like. Oh, yeah, that's good or no, that's not good. Yeah, I mean, it's like it. It it kind of makes me think that, you know. like you, you're drawing the vertical pile after type. brick elements. And then it just like you ran out of ink or something like there needs to be some kind of a transition between that rhythm of windows and then And then the picture windows. I don't know. Maybe it's a wider stretch of brick or something. Somehow the rhythm just kind of got

[51:03] yeah. Or maybe it's a. you know, like the ones on the right. The wrap around the corner. I don't know how wide those are. 15 feet or something. Maybe it's like a little bit smaller, I mean, although that could look. Maybe that's funny if you sort of step down and with but yeah, something right? There could be good and I don't know if this is a good time to talk about the break. Hold on to that, hold up on to you, and then see if because we sort of we got a a little bit off of the landscape, talking about the windows. But before we move on. is there anything else about the windows that anybody else would like to address. And I would like to see if I, if we can get a recommend, actually an actual recommendation out of that. That's relatively specific.

[52:01] Matthew, do you want you want to add anything to the window discussion? No, no, I'm I'm tracking along. I think if I could just summarize, summarize my understanding of the the 2 comments, and maybe this can serve as a basis of a recommendation. It would just be to examine the scale of those windows. I mean we I I can't discern what the so and head heights are right now, but you know, let's say they're 10 foot tall or something. But maybe explore using on horizontal element just to establish some sense of scale in in the punched openings. Okay, good. And then, looking at that articulation of the corner, how it wraps around and how it transitions to that. Yeah. yeah.

[53:03] transition to the of the wrap around the transition of the 2 may. Yeah, to the right. Yeah. I mean, I could think of, you know, like you know, I don't know you'd have to try it. I like, pardon me, is like, well, he's what if he just brought the 6 window all the way across? You know? What would that look like, you guys? Probably maybe you've tried that. Well. yeah, we heard. I thought, I I do comment. Steven was, we heard, you know, explored as a one-third proportion, because right now. Yeah, that might do it. Yeah. Cause 1 one aspect to. you know what you're seeing in terms of wall to window ratio is, we were, you know, really focused on the energy performance and the break and sleep the phones a lot better than last. We were sort of balancing the 2 forces of energy and and vision. Yeah. okay, good. So now let's move on to

[54:03] what was the next issue that came up that you were about to move to caller, you know it's interesting over there. I I know everyone in Boulder wants everything to fit in. and I don't know what the heck that means honestly. But it's really monotonous over there. And I and it seems like this is a chance actually to do a little bit different color break you know I I'm just thinking you know what if it was? If you were darker, like what I was brown, break or It was a little more vibrant, which is more like orangey. And then the other part of me is like, well, maybe it's like a tan break because I don't know that it needs to. All these buildings have basically the same color break. And it just sort of like. I don't know it. It's sort of like the Cu campus. I know everyone gets upset about that, too. They want everything to match you match and it.

[55:00] It doesn't really help the campus just like here, too. I I don't know it just it'd be nice to you guys internally just to try some different colors. You probably have to see what you know what that opens up? And then the other thing is, maybe the brick size, like doing like a role in, or Norman brick. You know, a cycle. a wide. wider brick. that could help with that overall scale. I think, too, it could be interesting. So that's Brendan Matthew. What do you? What do you guys think about the brick? Yeah, I I mean the the color, is it? It doesn't bother me. I feel like a lot of people are trying to use the orange sandstone colored brick to match. See you? that you see that a lot downtown. But I I feel like everybody right now is doing stacked black

[56:00] charcoal brick, and I'm really happy to see kind of a departure from from that. It's just all of these designs we're seeing. You have some of stack stacked charcoal brick. so I think it is. I think it is nice. I think it's a I mean, it's just a traditional kind of ballpark, darker Burgundy brick, which it doesn't bother me. But I'm always up for exploring. you know, trying out to see if other callers could work. And from my perspective, I'm more agnostic on the color of the brick. I mean, I think there's a case to be made that it's a. you know, a reasonable match to the surroundings. I think. Stevens Point, that this may be a place to provide some contrast. yeah, I think those arguments can me. What I what I like and what I would like to remain is, I like that the design team treated the what I'll call the you know, the east half and the west half of the building.

[57:11] with some different massing and language, and they didn't change the brick colors, you know. So I just wanna make sure, whatever happens. I think one of the strengths of this is that it's a single brick, and it's simple. It's subtle, you know. It's very mature in that way, and we're not trying to, you know, mix and match a lot of different flavors here, so that that would be my only comment that it remains restrained. And you know, thoughtful the way I I feel like it is now, regardless of the color. Yeah, I agree, too. And maybe also not. I don't know. In the sample you have. It doesn't look like it's a multicolored break a little bit. But you know, obviously doing like a full multi-color. It always looks multicolored in the 3D models, just because otherwise it won't look like break. But you know I would steer away from doing that

[58:07] true multi-color. But this looks like it's not yeah, and that looks a little more tan it. It's showing up a little more Burgundy on the rendering. But I think I think so. Yeah. yeah, maybe it's even lighter. I don't know. I I don't know if it makes sense, but I just know go running near there, and it's just like, Oh, that everything's the same. The bricks that are out there are pretty dark. So if this is lighter, that would be a subtle contrast. It is a little bit lighter. and yeah, I think it might be a little bit dark in the rendering. Yeah. okay, if we can move on, then for the sake of time. So we have not talked about. We did the little outdoor base tour. But we haven't really talked about the outdoor public space

[59:03] or the landscaping so is there are there things that we want to address with either of those 2 outdoor spaces or landscaping. Yeah, I I think my comment about the outdoor space is that You know, we have kind of glorious weather all year round here in Boulder, and there's opportunities in February that, you know, we'll get a random 70, 80 degree day and I think people really like to sit outside and eat, eat lunch and you know, talk on the phone. what? Whatever they're doing, just taking a break and having just some some space. You know, I and I appreciate that there is that space on the west side which is great, because that's you know with, we're potential views, maybe, and

[60:02] But if you know, if if there was a maybe if there's an opportunity to explore some additional seating space or public space. on, you know, closer to the entry, maybe on the south side, where the drop off is, and just giving you people a moment to pause. you know, in in addition to parking their bike. But maybe they're meeting a friend who's dropping off of lunch or something, and they can. You know you can just have a moment or a place to sit or with the south sun, and in the winter I don't know just just a thought. Maybe so, adding some additional seating opportunities around the building, or all sorts of entrances, or whatever wherever it works joined. If I jump in This is Eric with task project management. I'm the owner's rep, and I've been managing the construction out on the campus since my customers purchased the property. And over the last year we have just completed over a million dollars worth of landscape improvements across the campus.

[61:11] creating different activation zones new seating picnic areas, places for folks to eat to launch, and then as a part of that and it and I I should say, in addition to that converting the building. That's 2 buildings to the east, which is 4909 pearl east probably circle to an amenity center. and that amenity center has about a 1,400 square foot outdoor patio that wraps the west facing portion of the property, the app right there, Alex. And then the whole first floor is You know, areas where folks can come and enjoy their launch. to the east of that in the parking lot we've activated. Yeah, just a little bit a little bit further to the east, there's some green space you've activated activated, that is our food truck court.

[62:00] creating picnic table. We had a picnic tables built in picnic benching systems, areas for the trucks to pull in and for folks to be under tree canopy and enjoy launches, so creating kind of a holistic. comprehensive campus. And then, you know, for all of the users across these 11 buildings, and soon to be 12 with your guys, approval and recommendation. So there, there's been a lot of improvements across the entire campus. just because it not just the innovation building itself. Do I know? And I know Alex hasn't been involved in that particularly. So I want to make sure. I I spoke to that through this I appreciate you bringing that up because I I was not thinking of it it holistically as a campus. So I I appreciate that. And that that makes a lot of sense. And then if you guys, as you guys might know that that campus has that kind of main, I want to say, it's an 8 foot side walk that runs east to west and kind of creates a connection point from the boulder trail on the east. All the way through the campus to where the hotel and the surgical center are on the far west portion of the campus. We've activated what we kind of call the central spline through there.

[63:13] so that we we've updated some signage and branding to bring some color and character to the campus and kind of revitalize it. as well as bringing in low, like low water planting and moving a lot of the turf that had been previously planted throughout the history of this campus so kind of creating a a full holistic interaction between the different elements and focal points that we've that we've built over the last year and a half. So, Eric, can you go back to the the building that's on the that you were just talking about? That's on the yeah, right there. What is that again? So that's our amenity center for the for the campus. We've taken the the first 2 floors of that of that property. That's a 3 story structure. We've taken the first 2 floors and created the humanity center. The first

[64:02] the first floor. Half of it is in Arts, art Studio, and exhibit for B. Moca and creating kind of a maker space for tenants and for users to come and experience. We have an area for folks to come and and have their launch. So they're seating a bank cat area. it also extends to the outdoors with the larger patio area. There's some seeding elements under canopy to the east portion of the first floors where we have our fitness center. So we have free weights and and treadmills and and equipment for users to utilize. The second floor is where we have rentable conferencing center for the tenants to use, so they don't need to utilize their square footage for for their own boardroom there and then. We also have a yoga studio. I was there when I drove through here. I think it was

[65:00] a little bit after noon. and there were actually quite a few people sitting outside that building on the West side. It was pretty heavily used. I was impressed. And it, you know, it's pretty hot today. So there is. And there's because of the mature trees all all throughout the campus. I think there's a lot of interest in being outdoors really designed a really great amenity there for the users, and really activated that space. I mean, they offer free coffee, free kambucha you know, there's there's other other products, and, you know, snacks to really kind of bring a more of a community and really activate this, this campus what it used to been? we. Our idea was, we really wanted to create a community. There was not a lot of amenities on site for the tenants, and so we've actually named it Base Camp. And it actually acts as if it is a base camp. It's it's been so well received, and we want it to be very hospitality oriented and almost like a hotel where you want to respite from your office. And that's how people are using it. It's so fun to build a space like that. And really,

[66:23] I I build a community. You know it it. We're we're actually meeting our goals with how, how it's been received and how it's been used. And I think you would all probably appreciate that. Okay? So the the the question that that's come up around the this, the innovation building is, is more about outdoor public spaces related to that particular building. Yeah. it's it sounds like there's a lot going on on campus. But is there enough going on at this building? I guess that's the question question along those lines.

[67:01] over here. Right? yeah, I get to draw like this. I love this from the 3D model. And I'm curious what's going on right here. And the reason I say this is because when I was and we're looking at the 3D model and like, Oh, wow! Even that sloped. That's such a great place to sit. I don't know what's happening in front. you know. If you're like. I don't feel like me. I pace around on my phone, so I'd walk out of the building, walk around here, and I'd want to sit like right here, you know, not not go too far away, but I don't, so I don't know what's happening here. So I I I didn't mention it. But those those retaining walls also do have benches on them. So we were thought also, Brendan, I think you were right to, you know, highlight the south there just really where you want to set in Colorado. So we we do. Those little black boxes there represent with benches that are built on top of the concrete rotating wall. So we we are in about those areas of pockets where you can said, have lunch, or even if you're waiting for somebody, you can come up and just wait right there on the bench. so we do have seeding there as well as them that that kind of main other patio that we provide it on the left.

[68:12] So you like, walk in this way. So you like, walk around and you can walk straight in. Yeah, you can. You can walk around the number 5. That's a rain garden, so you probably don't want to walk right. But you go around it. But then these guys here, where my cursor is, those are all directly accessible from the sidewalk. It's just it's grass, it's it's all kind of the people that hang out. Where was that? Where were you talking about the food truck access being, if you could kind of show us with the cursor. So food truck I will kind of just sketch like conceptually, it's who trucks are about right here relative to the building. Yeah. And so you'd walked here. I didn't. Yeah.

[69:00] So while we're if we're staying just on that south landscaped area. How? What is the plan for keeping people off that rain garden. you know. If you're if you do have the bench there. It might be tricky. you know. Maybe maybe, that that's not a great bench opportunity, just because you want to off or something. Wasn't that path pretty wide between the number 5 and the bench. Just scale-wise, it looks like it's yeah, it's about A/C, yeah, yeah, yes, it's yeah. That makes sense. Okay, let's if we could. I think one of the before we get off the landscaping and outdoor public space. I was one of the things that I noticed when I was out there. This in which I've kind of mentioned is how mature the trees are.

[70:06] and I'm hoping that you're that you're actually not removing any of those big trees. because those are so valuable to the whole campus. Can you talk a little bit about whether or not any of them are being removed. Sure, yeah, and I don't. I don't think I have the plan with me, but we are, there are a few that we need to remove, and we're going to replace them in kind in terms of caliper size. but we, this design was, you know, takes into consideration, minimizing the amount of any trees removed to the extent possible. So our landscape architect, Norris design did an inventory, and I don't remember the exact number. But it's it's fairly minimal. we have a few that we're going to remove on the on the south end and we're gonna obviously replace them. And, in fact, we're going to add a lot more trees along between the 2 buildings as well as along the north.

[71:07] Okay. anything else about the landscaping or outdoor space before we move on. so the so the other 2 items I have are the mechanical screen and the the character and massing. If we want to talk about that. there is one thing I'd like to talk about there. But should we talk about the mechanical screen. First. It was me, and I think in an effort just to keep the meeting to it. you know, to our 2 h and 9 that we have another project to review. It's a necessary evil. I I get it. is. It is just massive. And so, if you know, some attention can be paid to it as I I mean, it is an element in itself like it. Just

[72:03] is unavoidable. And it's it is huge. It's really spans. It's good portion of that roof. So just, you know, in detailing and and care that's taken. I I just don't want to see that as it just a massive afterthought or just you know, I think it needs to be treated as an as an architectural element. because it is so big. And Brendan. This is Eric with task. Pam. Again, I just want to make a note that it hasn't been touched on is that this building is planned to be all electric. and so the reason for some of the size and scale of that is due to the air keep palms that are going up on the roof. it's trying to, you know, manage our energy efficiencies. in that manner. So this is one of the first. All electric life science buildings being built in Colorado. and I know that a lot of those units can be really tall. So I appreciate the height in the screen. I I I can't remember what.

[73:06] but the height was, but it was 10 feet or something. They're tall. It's tall, so I I mean, I appreciate I'd rather see this screen than than those units. But but I do think it just needs it just needs the same. It needs a level of attention and and detailing. And you know that that we see in the rest of the building, which I think is is great. Yeah. And along along those lines, too, I don't know. Maybe you can kind of section I mean the angle from standing on the street or even driving. I'm not sure that the top of the screen has to be parallel with the top of the equipment to to screen it, you know. Maybe you can really dial it in, and it's like a foot lower. You'll never see the equipment. even though, you know, like I said in section, it's the equipment's fired in the screen. You might look at that, because even if you know.

[74:04] scrape a foot off or something, I think it would. it would help. I don't know how he would react to that, but I think if you showed a diagram that hey, look the view, you can't see the equipment. It's screened. Yeah, it's slightly higher. Yeah. I think that's one of the challenges. I I know. in Denver there are. The zoning kind of gives you very specific calculation. that's based off of right away. I think here in Boulder. I think it's They don't consider it that way. They consider it more horizontal. So that is I I we do agree with you that reducing the height of the screen would be great. But we're challenged by the the horizontal calculation that you have to screen. Well, maybe push back on that and show a section. Say, Hey, you know the spirit of the lies there? Yeah. And you know we could take a foot off and then let them.

[75:00] Okay. So we do need to move on. just for the sake of time. I I want to. I have a a mass and scale question. mostly for jab members. But can you go to a sort of a planned view of the of the building? That sort of shows the 2 structures and the separation between them. Yeah. okay, so the so the building on the left when I when I drove out there today and I kind of drove on the interior, the road, the road on the interior, and then the Pearl Street East Pearl. and there's some interesting curves that you go around on both the interior and also out on Pearl Street. and what it made me think of is that then I would this the the building.

[76:00] footprint, that's square. I think, would be cool if it was circular. because I think that I just think there's too many squares and rectangles out there, and I think. with the same treatment of the the building as you, the with the 2 building sort of looking the same, but being sort of juxtaposed that this one. the the square on the left, would would be better if it was a with a circular sort of structure. Are you saying like. Do something like that, or what do you? I'm saying, like, thank you.

[77:01] Yeah. The the that the thing is round, basically. So I know that's a bold. sort of statement about how this could be designed in a way where it's where it's still is consistent with all of the other features, but has this sort of round quality to it. That sort of mimics picks up on those curves out there on this this not only the sidewalk, but the but the roads, as you sort of wind your way through this this campus anyway. Todd, that was very bold. I hear what you're saying and it

[78:01] I just wonder if maybe there was opportunity on a different building. I think I I like I I kinda like the I like the angles of it. I mean it. It's not perfectly I I like how you you know the one. The west leg of it kind of kicks up a little bit. I do, I do, too, but that's actually what made me think of it like. Would that be cool to. If that was a a circular building. From my point of view, you know, taking a purely practical point of view, is that the program and the fit out of a of a medical building like this. You know. I I feel like had the footprint has to serve the program as much as it has to serve the site context and having a life sciences, building

[79:02] with a certain inability or inefficiency of equipping a circular footprint. you know, in my mind would make it a non-starter. Yeah, I mean, I guess I I think serving the the ultimate function of the building. you know. I'm certain that you couldn't give up the efficiency of this footprint and the amount of desk and lab space and and whatnot. you probably couldn't sacrifice that for a formal move for the for the massing. I mean that I'm speaking, you know, just my own perspective there. But I, not knowing anything really about the program. But that's my my thought on that. I tend to agree to Matt. And it, you know, at this stage in the game, too, it'd be tough to me talking about a major redesign. Maybe you could look at that screening. I was just thinking, I guess this that dashed line is the screen just the roof.

[80:09] no, let me go to the root plan. You might be able to look at something like easing these edges or something up here. I'll car Boozier. you know that again. One of those things. You just try it like, Nope, or yeah, maybe I don't know. I might. Yeah, it's easy to get something like that in, but it might soften the blow of the mass of that upper screen. Just a thought. It's an interesting idea. We could explore it at the the screen. Yeah, what made me what actually made me think of it as a a building that I'm familiar with in Asheville, North Carolina and I started looking at sort of our deco stuff, and I then I came across the Royal Albert Hall in London. and then I was also thinking about kind of the juxtaposition of buildings.

[81:08] on the Christian Science Center campus in Boston, where I used to live. And I figured these guys are probably pretty familiar with that. So I was trying. I was just trying to think of how you could sort of break up the mass of the of the buildings out there, and throw in something that you could fit in there. But I but I know it's, you know, sort of out in left field. So and I and my I don't have to worry about the programmatic stuff. So I I take you guys. hat. you know your expertise on that. So just thought I'd throw it out. But we we should probably move on for the sake of time. But I wanted to bring it up anyway. So

[82:02] it but let me some. Let me summarize where I think we are now, and see if there's anything else we need to talk about because we need to move on to the other project while we've still got the the planning staff on board. So so I've got kind of 4 things that it looked like we were talking about. we talked about the windows. and the the notes that I have here is that the windows are kind of missing a human scale. There needs to be a horizontal element. There needs to be a transition between the wrap around windows. and the the sort of the 2 bay and 6 bay windows. and I think we I think that covers sort of the summary and recommendations of the discussion around the windows. There was discussion around the about the brick color and size.

[83:01] I think there wasn't a consensus on that so? I don't know that we have a recommendation on the bricks. I think we'll have to let that one go unless you want to come back to it. in terms of the outdoor space. More more public spaces. if it's possible associated with the sort of exterior of the 2 buildings. And then finally, considering the consider the mechanical screen as an architectural feature. and see if there's something you can do to scale that down a bit so that it's not as prominent on the top of the building. Is there anything I missed? If we, if we wanted to include the conversation about the brick color. I just I just think

[84:05] you know, final it on final brick selection. Just attention needs to be paid to I don't know. Maybe maybe you can help me for Smith that. But I think it's attention just needs to be paid to the color of the brick. so that it it integrates. But yet it sets itself apart, maybe from all the brick and boulder. Yeah, a little bit of contrast. It would be nice. you know, like I said, maybe look at the Norman or the Roman, right? Like some wider and and and explore, yeah, explore the different dimension and explore different brick dimensions. Okay, so that's a okay. I've got that. Then. okay, if there's nothing else that we need to cover on this project, we will let you guys go and thank you for your time and wish you luck with this project and

[85:08] This was an interesting project for us to look at. And so we're looking forward to seeing how it, how it evolved shapes up. Thank you, Todd. Appreciate everybody. Okay, so is there any? I guess we need to start off with any public participation on the the 2206 Pearl Street project after their presentation. Todd. Yes. but after the presentation. Okay? Sorry. Let's yeah. Let's keep that in in the right order. Then. So Chandler, do you want to give us a brief intro on 2206,

[86:03] sure. so 22 or 6 pearl. This one is in for site and use. Review. they're also kind of mid review process. They've been through 2 rounds of comments the proposal is to redevelop the site at 2206 pearl with 45 efficiency living units. it makes these buildings so there'd be ground floor. a restaurant, and I believe some retail space may just be restaurant cafes based on what the app we can specify what their plans are for the commercial portion of the building. yeah, reduce parking. It's kind of geared towards you know, auto-free living lot of very progressive Tdm strategies. included, with the 60% parking reduction request. all the units are quite small in size, I think about 300 square feet. and this one will require a planning board decision because of the efficiency living units.

[87:03] So it is a staff recommendation and planning board decision as as opposed to the last one, which was a staff level decision subject to call up. Okay. okay. so let's have a presentation by the applicant, and then we can. Then we'll do the public participation if anybody's wants to talk about it. So applicant presentation. Good evening, everyone. My name is Lee paying. I am the director of architecture here at Dt. J. Design and folder. I have 2 other architects here with me as well. I'm Joseph Simmer can senior architect. I'm Victoria Blake, and I'm a designer here. Can can we all hear these

[88:01] these guys? I'm having a little bit of trouble hearing good. They're good. Okay, alright. Given the length of the last review and presentation, I will do my best to be brief. that you have about 75 of our to our alignment here. So I'm likely to skip over some details. I'm happy to answer any of those obviously our, so that it was pretty robust. hopefully, it contain a lot of information that might allow the Q. A. To be a bit more brief. Oh. everyone see our screen, there should be a rendering on the front with a great background. great what I do want to focus on is the context and design inspiration and vision goals for the projects and maybe skip over a lot of the

[89:10] metrics of units and parking. I I do want to mention a dab that we had our tab hearing on Monday, and got a pretty unanimous support for our parking management plan in parking study. that's been a pretty contemptuous contentious part of the project. But due to the data and our plan, it was pretty well supported by tab. So I will focus on the outside of the building. You raise your hand. Yes, I just wanted to let you know that the density parking your transportation. That's all. A discussion that'll happen at planning board. That's for view is strictly architecture and kind of the functional or programmatic elements of the architecture, and how that transmits to the expression of the

[90:06] thank you. so we have some sustainability goals. I want to go through for the project. I'm just gonna start a timer here for myself to trying to see if I can cut into the 10 min. It's an all London building with onsite renewables. We're targeting a net 0, and by carbon selection for the materials. Our our design is highly based in the context of the neighborhood. it's also focused on car, free living and walkability to proximity of the resident needs and downtown employment. And then, obviously a high focus on continuing the the Pearl Street context. I will skim over a lot of the project information here. It's sufficient to say, we are exceeding the open space requirements. There's on site resident amenities, the retail along curls. Accommodation soft, good retail as well as cafe restaurant space. At least, that's our initial target right now.

[91:04] And there is a high concentration of bicycle parking to the 2 of the 98 spaces. As I mentioned, we based our design in the context of the neighborhood. it is. It's our opinion that there's a high quality of materials in the neighborhood. There's a nice rhythmic repetition, both from ground to sky, and also elevated of units to marking living. great use of different building materials, and more of a transparent application like you might see in this little right hand corner that we above, obviously the the brick and mortar retail with high expenses of glass. The neighborhood, we also think is as quite an eclectic collection of reforms both gables. I pitch low pitch flat roots, even tipped roofs. We actually like that versus every, everything kind of be insane.

[92:06] this is our site plan and verse floor plan The site is surrounded by a a good deal of green space resident humanity. Space on the right north of that is short term bike parking for retail users and guests. A water quality element on the west side of the street that effectively serves as a front. Your front door. Sorry front yard for a units on 20 s Street streetscape standards along pearl, including seating in a public clause here associated with the commercial use or elevated uses, our collections of single and double loaded units all around and outdoor, elevated out there resident amenity space that faces southwest towards the view of the sun. Here's our community community space. The Third Level is elevated circulation to the units

[93:05] proposed. residents, storage lockers, and then a potential community gardens right here. also. there will be a rooftop array. We are in the process of determining exactly how that's engineered, and different re penetrations will affect that. But our intent right now is to not have any rooftop mounted mechanical devices. Those are intended to be in the garage. Of course there'll be various re penetrations associated with plumbing by being an exhaust, but those are a process of being developed in Louis going through. the context model that we built or the individual. 2 dimensional drawings of the project. I think I'm gonna turn it over to Tory now and allow her to show our 3 dimensional model just in the interest of trying to be synced here. So we get. Let's try to do that. In about 5 min we go

[94:03] about pretty so far. Sure. Here we go. So this is the northwest corner of the site focusing in on that public plaza, you could see the outdoor resident back in the of these spaces up above. we are demarking the resident entrance with a kind of filigree of open brick patterning right near the resident entrance. So, though that's close to the Pearl Street place a a pearl street edge is going to have kind of a different deal and flavor. And then that design idea permeates the railings that you see at the third level. In other parts of the project. The Pearl Street. In it is relatively predictable rhythmic phase of structure, large last expanses, all in this typical kind of Pearl Street scale. Our exact signage, placement, and whatnot is all still in process. You can see that kind of rhythmic

[95:02] patterning of the units that are up above, including privacy dividers between each of the units. the 20 s street side now. And there's that Pearl Street streetscape context. our water quality element there along 20 s Street, along with in the above them, is that out there remedy space? And then you could see residents standing in the potential community garden space. the kind of tending like element element that you see there is a brick, the near elevator overrun. maybe. Take a look down the alley. Our parking and some ground mounted. Mechanical elements are over here in the southeast corner of the site. There's a 2 way entrance into the garage, but that is all separated from The adjacent right away is with architecture. You can see 2 fours of residents

[96:03] above there and then, just to kind of give you a flavor of what's going on at the elevated spaces. We'll pivot up and look down into our resident amenity area, which will have potential wellness zones seating areas for a passive kind of exercise. a climbing wall that shades the west, facing units there. All of these. It's a to have kind of a folks sort of the character of connectivity, but from people that are in a more of a public say, and then also in units. I think I'll stop there and open it up to any questions or whatever our next process will be. And like, I said, is, questions come up. We're happy to navigate around the model here. Okay, thanks for that presentation that was very helpful over there. Excuse me.

[97:04] is there any public involvement at this point on this project when sequel? Lynn? Okay. I just need to see if Amanda can. Yeah, sorry I'm going to promote her right now. All right, Lynn, you should be able to unmute, and you have 3 min again. I just wasn't I was going to testify on the behalf that I don't believe that anyone should have 300 square feet units in Boulder. I think anything should be at least 500, because people do have step. And even if they're

[98:03] efficiently moving around, you know, in town, with bikes and without cars, they are going to be using a lot of Ubers to go out to a storage locker, and the price is very high. even though it's 80 to 1 20% of am I? It's 6, 1,700 to 2,600 bucks a month. and there is no deed restriction. So after the first people are in there, it could be any amount. And but but unfortunately, I I just I. And this is what I saw at planning board. What I see here is just actually physically, I hate to say this, but I don't like the appearance of this thing, and I wish I were an architect. I'm an ultrasound technologist, but I do not like the physical appearance. Honestly aside from my opposition to the project in more general ways, and my proposition is not to get rid of efficiency units, but to change them into communal spaces where

[99:17] people would get subsidies for having, you know, 2 refrigerators and bigger communal space. But that's aside from what you have to deal with here. I think part of that might be approached, because when you're trying to fit a lot into a small space, you kind of take away from the aesthetics. I think you know, this was evidenced at the millennium yesterday. it's just part of okay. Yeah. The constraints that as a as an architecture working with and that might be happening here. But I don't like the boxiness of the roof line on that the top level.

[100:04] I. The colors are dark. the the the plainness. you know. I wish I could say frustrations and millions and things like like, you know. Brendan was speaking of. But there, there seems to be something lacking a as to the physical appearance to me, just from an average consumer of a visual arts. And and I I hate to say that because I'm sure people have put a lot of their heart into this design. But I don't think it makes it for me. it just doesn't. I wish I could be more specific. You can call me 24, 7, 303, 4, 4, 7, 3, 2, 1, 6, but I just

[101:02] It's it's not in my taste. Well. okay. thank you. Okay, so let's get into the discussion. But I what it I like to try to see if we can. maybe put some time limits on on the discussion, so we can make sure we have enough time to cover all the topics. So what I'd kind of like to do is is ask you. when you're giving a positive. Your sort of statement about the project to to also tell me the main topics. You'd like to talk about discussion if we could, if we could do it that way time. Maybe. we each get like where it is 3 or 4 min and just run through it because I have a whole bunch of comments I could just run through right? Yeah, I'm afraid if we break it all out it might take more time. But that's just a suggestion. I don't mind if you want to run through it by individual rather than

[102:18] yeah. Well, we at the end, we want to get to some recommendations. So it's Hi, we could try it that way. But I think if we if we go by topic. we can get a recommendation at the end of the topic hopefully. if we can put a timer on those. and that's Amanda may be able to put up a clock, just letting us know how much time is being spent on a topic. if that's helpful for folks, once we get the list of those together. So we come in with a set of topics of attention. But these particular projects were referred without

[103:00] without specific questions. So if I could ask the dab members quickly, if you could just name the topics that you want to talk about, that you? I think we should. We need to address as a group just the topic so quick, positive comment. First to start, it's just nice to start the conversation, and you know. positive magnet manner and then begin to the okay. Yeah, I I think overall. I I I like the design of this building. I like the You know. The material transitions, I think, are great. I think that, like the setback and the step back and the massing really works, and how and the material changes that happen in that process.

[104:04] and I also really like the. So this, this perforated material that is throughout. And I think it's really fun to see it in the brick and in the metal. And then in the balcony railings and in the entry doors and gates. And it's just it's a it's sort of a whimsical fun detail. and it's it's modern, and it, you know, but I do like seeing it, and I think it. It's carried through pretty well. and I like again going along with just sort of the general massing and stepping back to the masses. I think the the roof lines our, our. I I I'd like them. I think they work. Thank you. So what we need, what do we need to talk about? Oh, you and do both. Okay,

[105:04] I think this the thing that I I guess the topics that I would really like to talk about would be the commercial space on Pearl Street. the the depth of that and the programming of that I'd like to also talk about the cantilever portion of the building on the alley side. and that that. That's pretty much it. Okay, great, thank you. Oh, one more thing. Sorry. I would like to talk about the material. Palette colors. All right. Okay, Steven. Yeah. well, first of all, I really like the the program element. I I think micro units are great and we need more of them in boulder. I think that's awesome.

[106:13] I also like the perforations. I think that's those are some really great opportunities. And you know, I think there's some other opportunities to take that even further. I like how like it addresses the corner, and it's sort of a continuation of some of the other things that are happening on Pearl Street in that area. like your brick selection. And what I'd like to talk about is some some festration, you know, kind of window administration. things that we could tweak railings. And kinda I guess it's more like mass and some massive scale issues.

[107:03] and I think the kind of the bump out on the second floor along. You know this, this you that we're looking at right now, kind of that that element. the bump out on the second floor. the second and third floor there, you know, sort of that mass. Now that relates to that commercial on the ground. How it relates to the commercial. Okay? All right, thanks. Matthew. yeah. I think probably some of my topics will be similar to what Stephen outlined I mean overall. I think the the it it feels very community oriented, and I think some of the features amenities are that are oriented towards that kind of shared. Living space are unique and and nice opportunities. and there it feels like there's ample space provided for that which is always always appreciated

[108:09] in terms of topics. I, too, want to talk about the kind of variety and flavor of the finestration. And then I think, probably most importantly, for me, I feel like the the massing. The general massing is a bit hard to Kind of take. Yeah, each each for science has a very unique massing. And so I just want to talk to the applicant a little bit about what is striving some of the ins and outs the double height brick space that we see in this view, for example. anyway. Boom! That that's it. In a nutshell. We can talk more all right.

[109:01] So I would. I think that I think what I really like about this building. and the design is the common space on the second and third floor. I think that's a really good use of the space given the the size of the units. I'm sure really curious about the the shared kitchen and how that functions as a kind of a programmatic thing given the the size of the units But overall, I think the design is really sort of interesting and kind of unique for for that particular area. what I would like to talk about. I think you guys have covered But primarily, I think the thing that I that I want to talk about is the is the north, facing

[110:03] part of the building that's really on. That's on Pearl Street, the whole sort of Pearl Street look because it's very different from the other sides. But Pearl Street is particularly I guess, interesting to. So hopefully, we'll get a chance to talk in there. But along okay, so that's very helpful. Let's jump to. If you guys don't mind. What I would like to do is to start with the commercial space and the depth and the programmatic issues. and there's a question on whether or not we should put a timer on these things we have about. It looks like we have 7, 8, 9 topics. There's some overlap there. you want to try to put a timer on each of the topics to see if we can.

[111:06] Yeah, through this thing relatively quickly. and we have a account. I'm sorry, Amanda. Go ahead. Oh, I was just gonna say the same thing, Connie. my apologies. I don't have a timer that counts up. I have a countdown timer that counts backward from 5 min and 3 min. I don't know if that's distracting to you all. If you want to try the 5 min one and we can reset it and then for next meeting we can work on just getting a general timer that there that you can see, especially when you have 10 topics on a design that might give you a sense of. I'm not sure 5 min is enough. But let's let's start with 5 min and see what? See how far we get. Okay. So the question that Brendan is going to ask, or has asked, do you want to clarify that question? Brendan? Swing around and actually look at the East View

[112:11] elevation. the East Side looking list. Yes. would it help if I bring with the floor plan and kind of talk about that? And potential uses? Are you focused primarily on 3 dimensions here. well, just what? Just to. I guess, or or in the packet. your elevation to a 201 or just it like a straight on shot of the of this east facade if we're in 3D. Already. Yes. and I Todd, I'm sorry I'm gonna I'm gonna combine my 2 2 points. I

[113:05] I'm I'm very concerned about the depth of that retail space in the front and I am, I am sure, along the way that a decision was made, because on the east elevation and and our packet there's like an additional screen balcony that's cantilevered off this cantilever off the. You know, it's like this thing that's gonna topple over onto the alley on the south out of the building that south cantilever piece, the wood. it looks like maybe those. Oh, no, there they are. that I'm I'm just. I'm sure that you know along the way that there was a reason why you couldn't pull that parking out to the alley out to the property line. But then I think because of that, that the depth of that retail space is really suffered.

[114:03] maybe maybe now we can look at a plan. It's It's twenty- feet. A good deal of this is driven by what? we're striving for for the parking. that's a that's a minimum code requirement for the city of 20 feet. you're correct, saying that we cannot push the parking closer door towards the alley due to the programmatic elements there, so increasing the commercial death would likely come at the sacrifice of parking right. And I I mean I'm not on the transportation board, or you know the the parking I I just to me that the only thing that could really fit in that commercial space would be retail or potentially like a coffee shop. But there are a lot of coffee shops in that part of Pearl Street, and I. And it's it's just concerning to me that if it's intended to be a kitchen that you know. Where is the kitchen going to go? It? It

[115:08] seems to me that you're going to have to put a lot of the back of house programming of that kitchen on a Pearl Street facade. that some of that is gonna have to go in the storefront. and so that it it's just concerning to me to to think that that I mean I could be convinced if like, if I saw a test bit of a kitchen fitting in that for to serve a restaurant. but I don't. to me the the parking you know, having that the handicap or the accessible parking space at the cost of of not being able to have a restaurant there, because I think a restaurant would be fantastic in that spot. There's a lot of residents in that very confined footprint of a building. and I think they need some type of a restaurant.

[116:04] gathering amenity. I'm just very concerned that that a restaurant is just not going to fit in that I think you're right. my suspicion is that is identified in our travel plan. We're targeting a 700 square foot type of use for something like that. That would be an extremely small restaurant. So I think of of anything that was gonna have a food service use. It's likely to be much, much lighter duty. I I don't know if that means coffee, but I think the full fledged restaurant is not our current thinking, but but you know, obviously any kind of options there. I will say that the retailers themselves are probably able to sniff that out sooner than us. They're not gonna want to run a space that doesn't hard, either. So those uses are, you know, what we're considering in the end of being one into entire use as well. It may just be one retailer.

[117:04] The the depth of the commercial retail space specifically allocated or code the planning code for If we exceeded 20 feet in depth, we would then anything beyond that would didn't have to be calculated in our parking requirements. And so we are meeting that specific minimum to to keep the in in spirit of the mixed use requirement. And I and I I hear you, and I'm sensitive to to that. I just. It's frustrating to see you know, to see a potential for a a space here without an in having a vibrant and lively Pearl Street facade.

[118:00] is sort of being sacrificed. So it's always being sacrificed for the parking. Just it's it's sad. Yeah. Well, it sounds like it sounds like there's some agreement around this constraint. Is there any Brendan? Do you have any recommendation that about this particular topic. I I mean, I I just want to be realistic that it is potentially it's not going to be a full service restaurant. Correct? What's happening right here? What's all that? That's our our command room, a package room, a secure package room for the residents, and our hot water devices for the for the residential unit. It would seem to me if you could move that. I mean, maybe the long term bike parking could come out here, you could reconfigure that and try to get that

[119:04] service. Stop over here, because that would really at least make that this corner commercial. more viable. you know, it's sort of prime real estate that you're giving to. you know. functional stuff that God, if you could get it somewhere else you could put back of house or some kind of a I mean, you could use that space for the retail, or just or now you have to have another parking spot. Is that what you were saying? Oh, if you end up, yeah. yeah, if we add square footage, that. But maybe that's a variance we could pursue. I think that's an interesting idea to move the long term bike parking. We would still want that to be secure. That'd be a high theft target. That's also likely we will have this Tab suggested charging for the long term mic pardoning. So we really like that being inside the secure enclosure. But

[120:03] you know, there's a lot of things that are on the table. We're still working out. We're all the mechanical elements are going to be in the garage. This is not representative of that. It's it's quite a challenge to do a right. We've designed without rooftop. Mechanical. That's the easy out. We took the hard way. Unfortunately. So we're we're trying to find each each of those at home. But that's a good, that's a good idea. Well, let's hope that the governor's legislation happens next year, and we get rid of parking all together, and then then you can. Then you can just do this. We can get more units. Then we'll see what happens. I mean, I I I understand the constraints. I just it would be nice, maybe, even for planning staff and planning board to to take another look at how important those. you know we're back balancing the need for this parking versus the potential

[121:04] viability of a retail space, and that's in that spot which it needs to be viable. Yeah, I I think it's reasonable to make sure that we're at least giving a not only square footage or doubt, but also just a general proportion of setting these up for 6 h. I think that's a total of request. Dtj is done. Tons of restaurants. we. We did all the Frank Day stuff back in the day here, Boulder, and in other places rock bottoms, and all Chicago and what not that just I don't think that's that's more of a destination restaurant without parking. Those are probably set up for failure anyway. But I do think that We could do some sketches to kind of get this thing to steal with. I think that would help understand, even though those are not likely to be part of the design, at least it would kind of prove out. This is the way it's going to live right?

[122:00] So the suggestion here, then, is to take another look at at balancing, parking with the viability of retail. But that's a suggestion, for it sounds like the the planning board and not could I chime in real real quick. It's it's Ross Holbrook. So investment group we we we represent the owner or we are the owner. One other consideration with expanding the commercial space that we've run into is that it will take away from the units and then from an far perspective. So not only does it kind of exacerbate the parking requirements but it also would take away probably a a unit or 2 as well. No, just something that we we considered heavily. Another suggestion would be that, you know. You. You see, a lot of shotgun restaurants, a lot of narrow

[123:03] restaurants where you could put a kitchen back in the back of house. I know it it would again. We're talking about flipping this program pretty heavily on this first floor. but I if if you're not interested in increasing the depth of it. you know it's just a lot a lot of administration that you that is, that that are the constraints. So if you made it more of a shotgun design where you're keeping the exact same square footage or and somehow we're able to take some of the square footage along Pearl Street and translate it into more of a back of house area like on the east or south, or and then, if you're able to move I don't. I don't know some of that lobby or circulation space, or some of the lobby entry space into that corner where the commercial was, and and give up some of that

[124:02] to the retail. You know where they've done that Exact concept is like in downtown Denver on one line coup no, it's quasi. And what is that? 19 and nineteenth? There's windows there, and there's so there at So basically, there's an open kitchen that you can view into the kitchens right there on the street and countertop height at the window. So well, I I do want to just reiterate. Our project is going to be submitted, as that is, for you show space. It's not the the Ti is not part of this project. So this is all an academic discussion. based on the way that the owner was to set up the project for it. Our our project is proposing that it's just Ti, right?

[125:01] I I make this great input I just want to emphasize our direction right now, that's not fitted down as part of this project yet. Yeah, the other, you know, along those same lines. But you guys are thinking, I mean, this area here again is. you've got the prime real estate for circulation and for mechanical. But this could be a corner commercial situation. It's nothing to say. You can have residential units on Pearl Street. so I I would like to see this really maximize this corner. yeah. But Steven to jump in. Sorry we actually had residential units on pearl. And unfortunately, the code requires commercial. I think it's 70 of the facade. Is it not? Allow us to have residential units on Perl at all

[126:01] correct it. Our initial concept actually had, like 900 square feet of commercial on pearl, the rest of our units. And so and on and on top of that, even if it was more allowed. I don't. I don't think that's a very great place to live, either. You're kind of on display. But I I think this is a good idea to maybe sort of enhance this corner in ways it certainly works. We're trying to emphasize resident and pedestrian connectivity to the building in this corner. That's the kind of intent of explain, of having so much space dedicated that for that we want to celebrate the arrival of guests and the departure of residents from this versus having them lead through as I leave through a side door in the alley. That's a that's an intentional thing to focus on the Pearl Street connection and deployment opportunities towards the West. that was our design decision. and and probably why you're seeing a good collection of that space is that we're trying to celebrate the movement of people through the building and encourage them to use the stairs, instead of taking the elevator, really celebrate a place for other guests to come, because you could see with this amount of social space where our hope is that there'll be a lot of visitors here, and this is not simply you just exiting your your unit to go to your car.

[127:20] I I think why I bring this up, and why I'm sort of passionate about it is you walk down Boulder Junction phase one right now, and it is. You know they they have been required to have ground floor retail, and it is space after space after space that is unoccupied. Not rentable. I just. I just am hoping to set this retail space up for for better success than that. I mean, I know it's the Pearl Street. so that gives it a little more appeal. but it just needs to be a rentable commercial space. I just I would hate to see it.

[128:00] the just, you know. Dark? Yeah, we we would, too. So can I. Let me see if I can summarize where we are on this so we can kind of move on. So I did write down that. we're talking about taking another look at balancing. parking, housing, and the viability of retail. So we talked about both exploring different options, for parking, maybe reducing. We talked about possibly reducing the number of units and with the goal of trying to enhance the viability of retail space. So we didn't come up with any specific recommendations. But we're recommending that that that they take another look at that. And then the other one was

[129:03] that I heard was explorer enhancing the corner more commercially. So yeah. And I think it's really this, like I I could see swapping this, you know. I mean. we haven't talked about the facade, but it almost needs some relief on that Pearl Street side. You know that swap there would help that. So you're talking about, you guys are talking about that this northwest corner, right? Because that's really the entrance. And that's where the commercial enhancement would be probably the most productive. That's what I think. Yeah. okay. so they're obviously cons constraints and trade offs. But what we're trying to get the applicant and the and also the planning board to focus on is

[130:07] is is the need to enhance the viability of the retail space of the commercial sort of aspect. And so if if there, if the Planning Board is willing to be help, make those trade offs, then we're in, we're sort of encouraging that if I can put words in your mouth. Yeah. Yeah. And you know, you probably gotta look at some rough layouts of those that commercial, I mean bathrooms right? I mean, where are they going to go? Right? So, Matthew, do you have any anything you want to add to this? I do. I mean. I I think you know, we've all recognized that the there are some land use code restraints that have created partially created this situation. I want to put put a little weight in an emphasis on something, Stephen said, which is, I

[131:07] I do think that the water entry room the There are some functions that are tucked in that northwest corner that are that are essential to multi family, and in terms of package, reception, and whatnot that I don't think should move. However, I I'm I'm curious. and maybe just to throw it out there as a consideration. You know, the the residential entrance is due west right into parking, basically. whereas you have the diagonal connection to the corner which is really the most pronounced kind of entry. So my my question is, why. you know, why wouldn't you consider having the lobby entrance on the north wall of that corner?

[132:00] Because that that kind of grand plaza directs you right into a dead corner with a water control, you know a fire control room. or water entry room. Excuse me. so it just seems to me like the the residential lobby. suffers a little bit from not having its access in the corner where the kind of main approach from the sidewalk is directing you. The other thing is you know. because there's some mechanical and utility functions there blocking it. you know, I think those if they could move somewhere else. That would make a lot of sense. So that's my only observation. and I know that has some effects of how the massing and the finestration, and the brickwork is done outside, which we can talk about when we do the massing. But I think it'd be worth considering. or reorienting the entrance to the lobby more facing Pearl Street, and taking advantage of that plaza. Approach.

[133:08] if I may. I could respond to that. We did look at we got input from staff when in concept design that there was an important distinction that needed to be made between public and private, and I think there's a lot of the lit that that comment. we want to discourage people from feeling like they're, I guess, entitled to this, this very voluptuous roof deck, and maybe somebody leaves the door open a jar and they sneak away from the table, and and we're not there. That creates safety concerns, and it's also not part of the public use. I think it also allows us to maximize that public plaza with seating where it is preserving circulation through it would kind of diminish the amount of outdoor.

[134:00] Sure. Yeah, I I think just visually looking at this bird-eye view plan view. You know it may be the fact that that diagonal path is so broad and cuts through, and even landscape features divide to allow that you know, if it were more of a seating function and a less of directing people from the curb cut. you know, directly into that space. I mean, maybe there's a different landscape feature there that helps differentiate the sitting area and the entrance, because right now it kind of looks like you are directed into the corner. You walk around that little landscape element and then into the door. But you know that this kind of trivial feedback on that. But that, that's my only other comment, Todd, on this on this area. So if we could if we could move on, then to another so

[135:02] Brendan did did we cover the cantilever portion on the alley? Or is that still? And up in the year? I I mean, I just visually, and massing. I I have I just have issue with it? Yeah, if we move to that topic, I I have. My comments are really in that vein to Brendan. So if that's a logical place for us to move now. I mean, I think it. It doesn't And the fact that it's that it's can a cantilever on a cantilever. It makes me very uncomfortable. that there's no structure beneath it. you either the balconies or the living area, and then it just creates kind of a I mean. That's an ally it creates kind of a dark covered very shadowed alley space.

[136:01] It just. I don't like. I just don't. I'm having a hard time with it. If if I'm not interrupting you, why, you you collect your thoughts on it. My my observation when the massing and it's part of its question for the applicant. But And maybe I'll start with the question. I am my understanding. There's no interior circulation that all of these units every unit is reached by going by going to an exterior patio route to an exterior door. Yes. is it far, or another reason that that prompted that decision not to have interior circulation. it was a combination of things, I think, with micro units like this, having doors so close together and in close hallway would not be a very good experience. additionally, it allows us it unit.

[137:04] Excuse me to be connected to that social space and the sign in the South, which is, I think, a far better experience than walking down a bat. 4 foot 6 by one way. those exterior elements are covered to provide weather protection both from rain and snow. And then, of course, our clients gonna have a maintenance programs. Make sure that they're. It's really about the philosophical experience of being able to be connected to the selling in the social spaces unless they are decision. There's other ways to overcome that. Yeah. okay, could you tilted to just a little bit of like an Exxon so we can look, you know, down on the roof situation and the things that I'm I'm getting to my point here, and that's you know, I I do appreciate the kind of massing where it's aggregated parts. And that's what I would describe this, as you know, you have

[138:01] the base element. You have the residential units which are modules that are situated on that base. and I appreciate that, I think for me, though it's still all a bit incongruous. So part of that has to do with the the the shed roof. So As I kind of formulate my idea here. What I what I think I'm kind of objecting to or asking about objecting. Is this too strong a word? But. the 3 modules that are the residential modules of the second and third floor? They do feel like they're kind of stacked and tacked on, and they don't feel Congress with the the total language of the building. I wonder if they were all under, at least connected by a roof system that wasn't canting off in in several different directions, and I do think there are a lot of kind of awkward roof overhangs at the junction of the 3 modules. I wonder if

[139:06] kind of cleaning up that roofscape, pulling these 3 modules into something that's more of a massing might not help the overall massing. you know, because when I look at all 4 elevations and I know that's not really a fair way to look at the project, but you know there are a lot of holes and gaps and recesses, and they make it a little bit hard to read exactly what is going on with the massing. I don't know if any of that resonates. Maybe maybe you know, it's all more complicated than I'm making it out, but my recommendation of had to sum it up would be to re-examine the roof profiles because I don't think the shit roofs are helping what is already an aggregate of different modules. And I do think the roof some something with tying it together, at least at the top, would help kind of

[140:04] organize the the massing. Hmm. yeah. And if I can. man, if I can come in there, it's I agree, you know. I mean I when I look at this, and I'm like, wait, these are probably like 2 12, or I don't know. So you got a membrane roof. Anyways, I mean, what advantage are you getting from the shed? But maybe there's a hybrid where you're bringing up. you know. so you're getting more of the mass of the the sort of orthogonal mass coming through, so it make it a little more congruous like you're talking about. I don't know if that makes sense when I'm saying, like a parapet side wall. you know. Not. Have the all 4 sides be. you know, an overhang. It makes sense on the walkways right? Because you're trying to cover them and cover the I, I think, of flat roof system, or something that overhangs and provides that outdoor circulation which is.

[141:06] you know, I think the minimum the project has to do to protect people's doorways and walking services, since they're all exterior. you know that roof on Pearl street is actually shedding water down into the courtyard and onto a big roof deck system that has a managed water, anyway. So I don't want to belabor my point. I think I've I've tried to describe what I'm feeling. I think those roof junctions and and perhaps the the shed roof. you know, maybe looking at an alternative to that as a whole. could be an option. Yeah, especially on the Pearl Street side. Because you could. Yeah, I I think this view. Steven is like when I'm seeing shed roof shed roof. There's a lot of flat roof. There's just a lot of competing kind of language there that that it that makes it feel incongruous to me.

[142:06] I think that's really good dialogue. And I I thought it would just be worth all sharing our design philosophy. I think these are just decisions. Yeah, of course I I I don't. I I I hate to come across as like, you know ripping in the project, because I know I know, you guys. I know these things don't come out of thin air. There's some thought. So I appreciate that. Thank you. Thank you for saying that I actually don't find what you said. Objectionable it all. I I hope you don't find my reason, our own reasoning different at all. I think the the tip of the roots help with the solar access. We want to keep the solar panels low profile is it the maximum solar angle? Obviously not. But it does help with water management. you are identifying water flow for the project we've already strategized

[143:01] ways to capture that water and direct it to our article, a device. Those are definitely things we're thinking about. But the design philosophy was this stuff that has pair of its own, it feels far more urban, and our context is resident. And that was our design queue for keeping large extended overhangs to make it really feel shelter, and, like you were underneath the eve of a roof versus against something that's 3 or 4 stories that has a pair of. But that's just the design. We we tilted towards something that had a residential feel instead of something that felt urban down at the urban edges. Obviously you're seeing the great pair of it show up, and that's where that queue happens again. So we wanted it to feel like the home we wanted it to feel like it had relationship to the structures of the neighborhood that have roots and not square boxes at the top. I actually don't disagree with you about trying to create a little bit better harmony between the buildings. Again, it was a design philosophy. We're trying to create the sensation that there's actually neighborhoods. And each of these are identifiable in their own way. Should there be an overarching element that ties them together? Maybe.

[144:10] what we were trying to do was really focus on the East aside. If you could be in over there that that felt like it was almost you need this and that. The other other elements, in fact, did have their own kind of distinct quality again, to break break down the steel of it, not make the building feel so monumental. and really try to focus on time these together. I think you. The collision that you're mentioning between the roofs is a great valid point. But tying together, this facade was a side for some some color distinctions with the railings, and the base of the building was where we felt like the 3 met. Do you have a little bit of height? Do you have a little bit of height to play with, maybe to just deconflict the the roof junctions about 2 and a half inches to play with it.

[145:02] You're wasted 2 and a half inches. Well, this is just drawing right now. I I I kind of like the roof lay out the way it is. And I was. It makes me think. And I wanted to ask Brendan this. But this is you said that kind of whimsical quality to this building and to me the the roof. the juxtaposition of these 3 different Bruce kind of gives it that quality. If it was one. If it was one thing I think you'd you would lose something. Yeah, I mean, I I like, I like going in the the direction of that shed shed roof, I think is. there's a ton of precedent for it in, you know, in that neighborhood. But I do. I was just looking at your you you do look very close to the Max height. I also question

[146:02] how thin those are. I I would be curious how how that would be assembled. so I just wonder And I also wonder about the the detailing. You know up that that north long groove along Pearl Street, and how that ties into that middle roof. It seems very fussy, and it seems like it would be Some water issues and hard to construct. And it looks like it's it's just close enough that maybe it was a mistake like that. It it it either needs to be it, it needs to be pulled off of that roof. Or it needs to be a part of that roof, like it can't be it can't be sort of in between. so if it can go higher. And and if you want them to be really distinct, 3 roofs and 3 buildings that's one thing, but I think right now that they're they're just sort of kissing, and it's it's just

[147:10] I I mean in terms of again, like constructing that that thin in order to avoid conflicting with the roof adjacent to it. doesn't really seem very practical. I mean not to, you know. It's not our job to really design the roofs or anything. But I wonder if that middle module, if it were a flat roof? There isn't a visual visually that middle module having a shed roof is kind of irrelevant because you're never seeing the shed roof because it has 2 sides to hem then, so I think a flat transition for that middle module would let you die in to the south wall of the South Module fairly r rationally, and then, you know, you have this portion of flat roof which no one ever really knows isn't a shed roof, because.

[148:05] you know, it's it's hem done anyway, those are that you know that's technical, I think. but I I think the figure is, you know, you brought up the residential versus Urban, but Pearl Street is the most urban street in our city, and we think 20 years down the road. This whole part of Pearl Street is going to be filled in. and I hope, with very urban fabric. And so I think there's sort of an obligation to think about that and I think you could get out of this box by making that front facade, not have that shed, and look at it more as a very urban condition which it is and should be even though it's residential. Just because I mean Chicago. I mean, we, where do we want to start? Right? There's places that have residential in very urban conditions.

[149:04] So I think that right now it is. The the front facade is a little bit too much leaning towards residential. And what I was gonna say is. Looking at that facade. One thing that might help also, if we bring up the break on the lower level, even a foot. you know. So maybe we're right at 42 inches the top of the brick, and for those units, and I think right now it looks a little lower than that again, sir, that the dominant mass along Pearl Street. Is that commercial? If you will. you know. And if you're fighting that, then you're looking, then you're really talking about a Row House project. you know Urban Row House. But it's not. You're trying to do both these things. So I think that transition has to be modulated. And one way I I think you could do it is by having a parapet on the Pearl Street side. but that's just.

[150:00] you know, sort of my opinion about it. And along those same lines that the long porch on the front Pearl Street. you! There's sort of 2 competing horizontal elements that the top, if you kind of scroll zoom around just to the front of little bit you know we've got where it says signage, you know long along Pearl Street, and again I think it was right up at 42 inch height in the railing that that would be a little bit more massive which would help it, and then I but I think the the porches I'd almost articulate them. You know you could have almost some kind of break material break or something. Here. it's happening a little bit because it's transparent. But I feel like this is competing with this and then I agree this is going to be much thicker in reality. So we got to think about that right?

[151:04] and how all those really strong horizontal come together. so it feels like we're we're jumping around here. this is this is the topic that I wanted to talk about what you're actually talking about now, but I want to go back because we we kind of got a little bit lost on the cantilevered alley. I don't think we close that the loop on that before we sort of moved up to the roof. So and so can we. unless I'm missing something. Did we reach any sort of recommendation on the cantilevered alley. I I think. you know, the bottom line is our suggestion is that it needs to be explored and reduced or minimized as much as

[152:07] visually possible. whether that's, you know, adding some structure or reevaluating the relationship of that cube with the rest of the cubes. I just think it needs to be reduced. Okay. And I guess you need that walk. Is that what? Why, that was happening? You need that. It feels dark to you, and then and then. Brendan, you also mentioned candle, a cantilever on a cantilever. And are you talking about the are you talking about the porches. Are you talking about something? The balconies? Okay. right? Like, something needs to be supported visually and structurally. What? Why is that circulation necessary? And why can you just bring the building to the ground? I guess it's the question.

[153:05] And then. like Brandon was saying, to give that back to the commercial. that's our resident entry for bike storage. Obviously, there's a drive lane and then just behind where this, I guess gee! Cherokee is shown as our loading zone. So we need to be able to get in and out of the vehicles right there. That's our ride. Shared space for the sure. He is okay, I just don't see it in our cards to drive architecture down right there is probably going to get deed anyway. I do think as a you know, in terms of this. stepping towards the alley. I I I do just want to point out the the site has had to concede. I think, 3 feed and right away already. And then, of course, the building, this back from that flow line, that newly established one line, that with these spaces in that walk which is about 15 feet. So this is. This is far further back from the Allied than most of the

[154:03] vernacular in this area. billing overhang does for type provide weather protection for that log which we think is a benefit. I mean, you could stand there in the rain and wait for left to show up again. Just an architectural decision that we made. I can't disagree with the fact that the the cantilever is big. It does allow for more space within the project for this, the primary courtyards in the circulation versus minimizing that hallway with between units. Again, these are all kind of just design decisions. But that's that's the result that you're seeing here. Okay. I think extra lighting in there. That would help, too. Sure. I mean, I'm just looking at the setbacks and property line. And

[155:00] I just it it programmatically to have that walkway to create such a what a large overhang I it doesn't make sense to me. I did. I don't find it too offensive. I mean, you know, I think technically, if you figure out how to do it. It's okay. This does have a bit of a back of house and garage entry feeling, so, I think, having some overhang protection, for the garage is A is okay. I just want to add, one thing, I think is working here. That I I think is nice. Is that the balcony? stops as it approaches the east, the corner And then the balcony for the unit on the east corner is facing east. So I I'm One thing that is working here that I think is different from the front facade is Steven was talking about is the fact that the balcony here has a break, and it it gives you a chance to see the

[156:05] continuity of the of the mass. so sorry. Brendan. Yeah, that's a good point. Okay? So we, I think we've got we've got something for that the the alley way overhang And then I think you can note it, too, that you know there there was not a total consensus or agreement. Yeah. there. I I want to go quickly back to the reason that we're trying to move along here. I think the the idea of connecting that little bit with something that's more flat and contiguous with pearls. Actually, really good idea. Our concern is that it feels like it makes sense from the bottom, unless from what the little already see. And I think, having that disjoint. Actually, we'll clean that up and and be a good improvement.

[157:00] The thickness, the way that we're proposing doing that is cantilever. So we have study that this is a real thickness. We we are trying to minimize that. So it just feels like a very elegant that's erupting from the project versus. Here's a gigantic to the to the big thing that's sticking off the building. The bigger that gets the less visually powerful that cantilever is. So I just wanted to make sure I hit those 2 things real quick. Well, I'm glad. Thanks for explaining that. Yeah, that's good. So okay, then we moved up to the roof. and there was a fair amount of discussion about I think that middle section maybe being too low and some way to tie these things together. But I've got re. The recommendation I have here is re-examine the roof profiles. tie residential masses together through, come through a common roof roof. Riff points need to vary more than exist.

[158:06] Is there more to it than I would? I would say our recommendation would be to ease to either tie them all together or to separate them more. Yeah, it's too subtle. Yeah. right? It's like the what we always say to kissing us. It's I would like to point out just quickly that I we are also kind of envisioning the 2. You know. Masses on on the front in the back is like kind of the sisters like the book ends of the building. So I think it's a really good comment to point out really the centerpieces that anger and I think that has the ability to be simplified and adjusted, so that the to bookend really saying and show these 2 strong, you know, subtle shed roofs that bookend this building on either side, and then that middle piece becomes a little bit more subdued, or at least, you know, cleaned up so that

[159:03] it's not necessarily trying to say anything. All these other 2 kind of speak for the building. Yeah, like, if if the objective is to have the 3 masses, then right, then push that a little further. That's it. Okay. And then we moved around to the Pearl Street facade. And Stephen was. Yeah, I can. I was getting into the question that I had. Yeah, and just summarize. I I I don't know what you know from structure. this dimension. you know. Here it looks like it's not high enough. And so if if this gets pulled off a little bit, which I think it would need anyways technically help that front some prompt facade. I it's also well, my code. You can have it at 36 inch.

[160:01] Yeah, but I think it should be 42, I think, should be. What's the problem that you're that you're trying to address is dominant over this. So this feels the the commercial part deals kind of like a strip Mall and I'm not trying to be harsh, and that you know that it's long and too low and and doesn't feel Then it's addressing that prominence of the urban condition of Pearl Street. I think seriously like a foot. Would we pull that up? Remember, you know, people might want to have audience in here for something with their signage and you know you you want to make sure there's space to pull that off. you know it. Really it's unfolding from Pearl.

[161:03] Yeah, Pearl Street, the street, the sidewalk, the commercial. And then it unfolds into the residential piece and a super cool roof deck in the back and you know, I think, holding that I don't know how it compares to other. You know heights of other floor plates along, you know either side. But and I'm not sure what this. What is this dimension here? That the actual storefront dimension that's 10 10 feet. Okay. so, Steven, you're talking about. Maybe maybe you and I were not talking about the same thing. Are you talking about kind of the proportionality? okay. And you're saying you're really saying the I thought you were saying that the commercial kind of mass there is too long and too low

[162:03] to the upper part. So it's just it needs to be the dominant thing on that in front. because that's what it is. Okay? Well, it's also set back quite a bit as well. the or that? Yeah, the upper. Yeah, that. Actually, that's interesting. What you know, because you have quite, you know, pretty large dax up there, right? But the commercial. That is it that like deep? Yes, I'm curious. Yeah. Why did you set it so deep? I mean, you could get more that fax. It's a zoning requirement. We couldn't make the railing any higher either. That was also part of it. The higher we go the markets into that setback. and there's an interplay of allowable heights, for the function is very rails are already at 42 on the

[163:06] of of avenues. To make that shorter. The those are the maximum lines that are allowed at the third floor level to project in the setback. So we're trying to get the building closer to the street here. Well, showing compliance, I I actually think that's an interesting idea to increase the height of the bridge here, even though it might be at the sacrifice of let's say your elbows hopefully, not your my glass height. The what I'm seeing and I think is being articulated. Well, actually, it's the the with the brick where the word sign is is the same with is the railing up above, and something needs to win. You're kind of caught in between. So I think going from 42 to to 50 ish inches at those units is actually a good idea, and it will add more presence to the base the building. Yeah, that's exactly

[164:05] for, or, if you you know, went from what whatever you have, 9 foot doors with it, one foot and 8 foot door with the one quick trans. and then it. I don't know if you meet your plazing requirements. on Pearl Street, but that might be an in perceivable scaling exercise rather than raising it above 42 inches, which I think would be too high. if you're trying to take advantage of views or whatever. Yeah, maybe it could be done through a subtle adjustment, the top of the parapet. And and maybe like you're saying, just lowering the trends that might a little bit just to give. Or yeah. I'm repeating myself, but I I wouldn't like that. The I like the balcony. I like how it maybe through detailing it could be subtly demised or interrupted. But it just really makes me think of that trace birds project right on my 25, which is very urban.

[165:12] Yeah. and it and it looked really cool when that white rail was brand new. So doing that real and white. But I I like it. you use the past 10 square there, that was interesting. yeah, I I think like just derivating the delineating where the privacy walls are intersecting by just maybe removing the holes there and having something that's solid would be something that's subtle. But it's also kind of breaking that down versus just a continuous yeah. it'd be good the other. This is Picky. But I you know, you guys are doing this super interesting modern billing. I'm not sure that the

[166:01] gorbling kind of cornice is helping. I I would go more modern. Yeah. you know, like, I, I kind of agree to. Yeah, I think it could be a little more. you know, and it maybe you're tying back in some of this metal or something from the railing, you know. There's just a cap flashing that brings that together. I could just be something simple, like a quarter inch. Step out of a double soldier or something. I don't think we can. We? We don't need to try to emulate something that was made out of stone or concrete with. I think this could be on it. Yeah. So we still have quite a few items on this list, unless we've inadvertently covered them. But do you want to talk about the colors, the material palette and colors. yeah, I I mean, I think we're still on my list. Sorry, guys. yeah, I just, I think in the last presentation I made my black brick.

[167:07] I sure did. I wondered if these guys picked up on that. I'm sure sure they did. I just I'm I, you know, killed them across the street, and it's just like everywhere. and if it's something that we're really set on using. just black bricks, and I wonder if we could potentially look at like the the the woods sort of has that reclaimed washed white wash. Look to it. If we couldn't bring maybe something like a little warmer would tone to to balance out that black brick, or somehow bring some warmth into it. It's feeling a little flat

[168:00] and brown. I mean, you could do more of a chocolate break. Right? That would that would be. Yeah. There's some cool. you know, very similar. But there, yeah, it's a little warmer. so either warmer, brick or and or warmer. wood town would be my preference. that was it. That was my only that was my material comment. we definitely picked up on the blackberry comment. I wouldn't actually grab our. I would call the the we're trying to draw a little bit as a distinction here between more rusticated materials, in A, in a basic and just a design decision. We were trying to distinguish between those 2. So you feel that around it masonry base and not make them do the same. We might be again. It may have been too subtle, I would definitely classify. This brick is more in their purple or

[169:06] even kind of grayish category. It's got kind of a clay space on it. What you're seeing here is far more negative of the real material palette. Then what you're seeing in the model I pick them all for. Trace them, for we're closer than we're we're proposing here. It doesn't mean that we can't city an alternate. But I I don't think our modeling is doing justice to the nuances for it, you know. Glaze bricks with flash faces have all kinds of irrigation in the surfaces already. and that's just a nuance. You just can't see in pictures or models. Unfortunately. Okay, just no stack bond. Then I guess we do. We do soldiers in the stack. Well. this may it be found to try a bright, or, you know, like where you have the light bronze for the storefront. I mean some of your precedents in the area. There's, you know, they have some some brighter colors, I mean. I'm not sure it's the answer. But it might be fun to.

[170:08] you know. Explore like, you know. Maybe there's some. you know, Burgundy, or red, or something, or the railings, or a brighter color. I don't know. Okay. Matthew, do you have any thoughts on this. no, I mean, I think when I look at this palette, just taken as it is, I I think it's nice. I mean the one thing I notice, you know, because I have looked at this in the packet before is the the model. You know. The model is showing the storefront system as more of like a white And and that contrast feels a little much. But you know I'm assuming that it's supposed to be a little more bronze than white. so no, I I'm just blaming. I should. I really don't have

[171:02] A particular objection to the palette, I I think what to me is more important is that the palate within itself is. you know. complementary and the brick color. If that drives the palette good. If not. I wouldn't change things, just, you know, just to change it. Right? So that so is the question on the table whether the the palette needs to be lightened up a bit, or it? Or does it need to be warmer? Which is when I think you said. Yeah, I think if if we're gonna stick with this black brick. Some element of it needs to be more metal, or the wood or something used to. Yeah. And I would exploring this color a little bit, you know, like some options.

[172:01] If you look through some of your precedents, I don't know if you can. and take time. Scroll through those real quick, but there is a couple that similar. But then they had some. you know, colorful accent colors that I think could help help a little bit neighborhood contacts. I don't know if you run through. Let's see. Let's go to and get another one. Let's see those. Yeah. I mean, even like this one over here, right there's like. you know, and even here the one the elements did. It's got those, you know, popping these little orange. It's you know. I think that could be nice. Yeah. And that would is on that top left image. That wood is pretty, it is warm and vibrant, and it good contrast to the black. There's sort of like 3 distinct colors there. you know. Then then the you know the windows are just bronze or black. And that works.

[173:06] okay? Well, okay, let's let's keep moving along there. Then. so I've got administration railings, mass and scale bump out. Second, it's bump out something on the second and third floors. variety and flavor of penetration and massing on each side are the topics that I don't know that we've covered. I think we've kind of. I've covered massing on each side. That was a comment that I made, and I feel like we've thoroughly discuss that I mean I you know, without a specific recommendation. other than Well, I I don't want to rephrase it in a different way than we had talked about it.

[174:00] Okay. I think you guys, both had comments about administration and in detailing, maybe we could. Yeah, that would be, I think the other stuff. maybe go back to one of those elevations. I think for me that I mean, you don't know what tenants are going in there, but you know it. You could divide the lid a little bit more on the store fronts, you know. The doors don't necessarily have to be centered. Maybe they're offset. So, Steven, what? What's the problem? Your, your. The problem here is that it's very symmetrical. I know your building is about symmetry. It's about kind of movement. So are we just really talking about this Pearl Street?

[175:00] Some of these, you know, some of the other. Besides, I think there's just some windows that you could. you know? Maybe shift things off. Center a little bit, wrap corners. You have corner windows or something. But I think let's see, as we go around. Yeah, some of these windows on the. you know. Maybe you introduce some. I don't know what's going on the plan. I mean, there's some books. Maybe there's some horizontal windows or something. you know, just just a couple of tweaks, I think. You know I think it. You know, it looks like you guys have just another kind of layer of like finesse that you probably haven't done yet. You know. It's I think it's great over here, like where you're doing this this kind of window kind of pulled off the center. It's nice. and you could kind of take that for you a little bit

[176:00] further. But obviously you have floor plan, you know you got to deal with, especially with 300 square foot. There's not a lot of flexibility. You the window you have a lot down on Pearl Street side. Yeah. so. And I know I said I didn't like the. But I don't even know the name of that project except for that trace birds designed it. But that I didn't like the white metal, but I do like the awnings, and I think part of the reason why that looks so bad is because it's on the highway, and it just got 30. But I do like that do like the contrasting layer color, but bronze, I guess, is what was in the material palette. Not this lemon color, too. It? Yeah. I.

[177:03] Okay. So we're not just talking about the Pearl Street profile. But the basic idea here is to just to look for ways, to tweak the the symmetry a little bit, to sort of upset that pattern slightly. Yeah, maybe some horizontal windows kind of like you have in that one and off the right. you know. Couple of, I think that will. Yeah, I mean the last project to review it. It was all about the the rhythm of these windows was I think, a strength that, like, Steven said, I don't. I don't know if that's really our objective in this design that that there can be a little more play with. Yeah, it doesn't have to be. The the pattern doesn't have to be relentless. Right?

[178:02] Okay. yeah. Especially as you get into. You know this. This is your you know that entry, you know. Maybe there's I mean you're doing it here right. This is your big. pretty, cool thing. I like how that separates the private residential entry and celebrates that which is different from I I think that separation of the public and private is really awesome right there, and that's where you enter here. Is this where you enter? Yeah. okay. that makes sense. Yes, it's a little confusing than that other plan. Well, yeah, I think if you look at the floor plan. You can see the doors. You're not that plan for the an actual actual 4 plan. Yeah, I see, yeah. Yeah. And I think. maybe. Just to

[179:00] add to Matthew's comment, just our recommendation is to study the essentially concrete patterning and scoring control joints to so that we're not leaving right to the water entry door. Yeah, yeah, I I think that might just go away, and it could be better just without it or for terminated, you know, somewhere in the planters or something, but that you're probably right at the setback, but it would be great if this piece even popped out like 8 or 10 inches. But you're probably right there they talk. We're giving you a curve. Yeah, one. That's one. All righty.

[180:00] I'm not sure I I caught Matthews a previous point. He was just. He was just saying that there is the planter like set up, and the the path of the concrete school, you know, control joints, basically are are leading to something that looks like it's going to be this amazing. But it's it's not. So. I just think that that needs to be studied and the concrete we're pointing to a no relationship with the function inside. So okay and and all, my, my, my just question is, have you guys it. There is a like a sted wall behind this brick screen, or is it intended to be fully perforated and transparent.

[181:04] fully perforated and transparent. There's an affordable housing project over on Bluff that it's pretty where you can see that sun come through that element. We we do not want a solid wall behind this. Yeah, that's that's cool. It just did it. And I and I have seen it done. I just had conversations with, you know, the Rock and Mountain Masonry Institute and it just seemed like, technically and structurally hard to do, especially with our wind loads. But yeah, it's probably I have studied that. And no, it works We haven't chosen the easy way of what's of anything. Yeah, we don't know. We've seen it pulled off and other apartment projects, and never typically, there's a structural super frame behind it. I do think it's doable without a continuous

[182:00] support. You know, it's just an engineering thing we have to get into. I mean, the the hard things are the the the beautiful things are typically the harder things to do. So we just have to figure it out. Yeah. it's cool, and it's a little. I mean, little bit bauhaus, right? Some of this stuff you could. You could do your numbers like, you know, this way. 22. We could, you know, accelerate those numbers. although I know the city has some really dumb rules about that. But give us enough. Give us enough time. We'll we'll pull everything by the Prince. We need bark prints for. Oh, I'd love to have something in here. Speaking of time I have 2 things on the list that I don't think we've covered. One is railings.

[183:02] and we covered railings. The other one is, I think we did kind of we just talked about. I was just talking about sort of the the break break. No, actually more I think about maybe these just pop out like they just come past the really a little bit. I don't know again. I don't know how the right answer, but maybe could try it, you know. See what it looks like these fins. Kinda maybe it's every other one like I was talking about. Well, the way the corner join is one suggestion. You know, where you have like. It's not a continuous ribbon, but it it's these long panels in segments. I think that could be that could be neat and practical to you know you have is that does that into that category a little bit. I think it's more like any movement, because there's a lot of movement in the mass and keeping that going.

[184:01] Yeah, I I think I think our object, or I think it common thread in the conversation about the railings was the competition between the ground floor horizontality of the ground floor band, and then the horizontality of the unbroken second floor, which are the same with. And so it just needs to be studied. So competing horizontal bands. Now that was the topic that I was gonna bring up. So I'm glad you guys covered it. Yeah. okay. And then what was the what was the the question about bumping out the second and third floors. Where is where we talking about doing that?

[185:03] Oh, I think what I was talking about was just related to what I said before about the the the second and third floor sort of having being more dominant than that. I see. Okay, yeah. All right. Yeah, we did. We did cover that. Yeah. Okay. Is there anything else that you think we haven't covered? I don't think so. They're gonna have some cool parties on this road. I bet. so you'll be inviting. I'm curious about the about the common. I don't remember what it's called in the floor plan, but there's a common kitchen Can you say just more about that? Programmatically?

[186:01] Sure. yeah. And I do remember that was a comment that I think he brought up time. this is a an opportunity for residents to entertain. You know, you can imagine living in a 300 short but unit, you're not going to have a very large party any unit like that. But there's frequently times that Residency there in and of themselves or their guests want to get together in larger groups. the idea here, as you can see in the plan, is multiple different cooking venues. So 2 places where food preparation could happen. The island there in the middle. Is that to be kind of our still hide? And so you could entertain where you're cooking? collaborate. The south side of that space is meant to be kind of loose seating. We don't know exactly how all that's going to go, and whether it's far height at the edges free standing tables that you can move around, but a place where you can escape the kitchen and and have your food, and then the better line that south of the where kitchen there is that to be like a telescoping door

[187:06] that opens you could see good good examples of that. A lot of different restaurants of Pearl Street like Toona, or whatever it's called. Now, next to the kitchen is a good example where the doors telescope open, and then there's a great indoor outdoor, so you could spell out into the pause itself, and maybe even eat out. The worst right is that kitchen big enough to be to have a commercial sort of nature to it, or is it more residential? it's it's a residential use. we we've not envisioned kind of mixing commercial uses up here. Right? Okay. that's helpful. Thanks. So

[188:00] this is the point that I would usually try to summarize this stuff. But I'm not sure we've got a there's a lot of sort of nuanced points here. so I'm trying to figure out what's the what's the best way to do this. So one way we could do it is, I could just sort of summarize it the way I've kind of captured it, and I don't want to get into a big discussion, because we're we've now been here 3 h, so I don't want to open up the discussion again. So the the second way I could do it is I could summarize it on paper, which we need to do anyway. and send it to one of the other dab members for review. I can't send it to all of you, but I could send it to one of you for to make sure we've got it captured. and then we could incorporate it into the into the meeting, and

[189:07] get it out to the applicants. That'd be another way to do it. I think I think that we've done that in the past time, and you know I I do think given respect to the time. That's probably a good good way to do it. and and it's a little more thorough than trying to rush here again and collect comments. One more time, and I think officially. We we like to give our comments. you know, in the form of our meeting minutes, but our recommendations will will be summarized in there if you if you guys are okay with. yeah, written. yeah. And we have let me. Let's hear from Kalani, because that's she has the final word. I think so. Yes, Todd, you can draft it. Designate one person for Dab right now. I this is without me checking with Hella just in case.

[190:09] But draft it, for with one person send that to the one person, it'll be put into the minutes. and then that draft set of minutes is what the rest of the board, and the applicant can see at that point it as as far as the summary. Another round of review between yourself and other members, is it? We don't want to violate the an open right? Yeah, okay. I guess if it if I might, if voice some concerns about that, I think we're all probably exhausted after such a intense debate with really smart people, and I'm not objectionable to making sure that it's clear what I what I think wouldn't be beneficial is a lack of direction, and that's probably going to take a lot more time to. My concern is is to fold that. It takes a long time for us to get that direction. and that it's either outside the purview of the app or is still coming open. Item, if you guys feel like that within your group that that's a a path that

[191:13] it's not too risky. I'm totally fine with it. I've just kind of seen this before, where one or 2 people might kind of capture something in one or 2 people, or if they could not, I don't actually agree with that. because this is this is, some of these were very circular kind of discussions and became right back to it's not such a big deal. So I I I would just have to trust the group. I just want to share that as a as a concern. If we actually exiting with consensus. There is some risk in it being just part of the group with that in mind and the applicant level of comfort. You should summarize these right now for the meeting and in with the applicant here. Yeah, I was just thinking that so could walk through. I don't know how many you have.

[192:02] We need to weigh in on. This is not actually part of the purview of the app. Everything I've heard tonight so far is that purview related to design. So if you don't agree with the direction of it. But that I haven't heard anything outside of that is zoning related. you know. Specifically, these are kind of design concerns that may impact program or other things. But if if at the time you go through the dab comments and you want to talk about those with the case manager or as you go through the other. I'm sure you have several revisions on your planning on the site review. you'll be asked. That's how did you meet? You know Dab's recommendations and planning board will also ask that, so you can address it at that time. Okay, I'm I'm only asking because it's the intro you were mentioning what that purview was, and the parking was kind of excluded, and the good deal of tonight's discussion was the commercial space. So it's like commercial space and relationship to function activity

[193:10] that that impacts your parking, you know, within your buildable envelope. So Brendan's comments were about the design. She doesn't have control over how that affects your parking or your unit count. So that's something. As the designer and the problem solver of this kind of overall, buildable envelope. You need to kind of wrestle with and solve and see if you can figure out how to. If that's a consolidated recommendation on the on the kind of space there, the design of that function and the architecture of that front space. That' be our most difficult thing to solve. So I definitely want to have super clear direction of what we're supposed to do with that today tonight. So that would be one of the things that you go through the recommendation, the design for our most difficult thing to solve.

[194:05] Well, this is yeah. And this is. I think, on that particular topic. your. You may have constraints that come from other authorities like the planning board that we have where we have no jurisdiction. So if we're making design recommendations that possibly conflict with constraints that you have in other areas. we're happy to point those out. But we can't. That's not something we can resolve. And so like, for example. this board can't make recommendations to your parking counts on square footage per space. It's per, do you? Your density? Those are things that are falling under your zoning regulations. Those are planning board. but can make recommendations on, hey? I think your retail spaces

[195:02] not very functional. You may need that to be large, or the depth, or reorganize that in a way that the footprint works better. But as you come back to when you come back for your revisions on your design. and if you have some concerns you can talk to your case manager and some others, as you have to try to measure out and balance out these different kind of things that are going on, competing things that are going on in in the overall design that makes sense not really good. I I think I can try to figure out how to move forward of their competing faction. It's not, I think quite as linear as that. No, I mean it. It it isn't linear. And I think that there's always a thing where there's you're gonna have to figure out where that that or you're meeting the criteria and those other things, and I don't know if it's adjustments to your overall build out or these other things. But

[196:00] what you can do tonight is summarize what their design recommendations are for you. and then you can move forward with those design recommendations and make the case moving forward of what we, how you can meet certain ones, or the ones that are struggling to meet at that point. So let me give you the first, our first summarization. our first recommendation, I guess, which is where this comes up. So the recommendation is to take another look at balancing, parking, housing, and utilities with the viability of retail space. Well, I think specifically that corner, that inside corner, I mean, if you want to. And the other part of that is explore enhancing. the con, the corner right? that, basically the commercial corner. Yeah. Okay, so that's our recommendation. But it's gonna have to. That may require some

[197:05] additional work on housing utilities, housing and parking, because that's we don't have jurisdiction over that. So we can't. We can advise you to re-explore that, but that's or explore that. But that may be something you have to bring up with the planning board. but you've got our. That's part of our recommendation. So the design element of that you can bring up. and how it relates to these other things. If I'm saying that correctly. I think that's the only one where we where we run into this potential jurisdiction. So the second, the second one is is regarding the cantilevers, the cantilever

[198:02] Halli and that is to reduce or minimize the cantilevered alley explore ways to reduce or minimize the overhead. That's not a consensus. That's one or more of our concerns. But it's not a consensus, but it is something that's that was brought up as a recommendation. This, the third one is to tie the is the regarding the roofs. Either tie them together more or separate them more. and we can say a little bit more about what the problem is that we're trying to address there. But that's the recommendation. the third one is, what was the dealing with the Pearl Street a profile that kind of bled into some into a couple of these other things dealing with the cemetery. But

[199:04] The the Pearl street profile particularly was the commercial profile is too long and low. It makes the the that all structure of the we at that west facing profile look more top heavy, and the. And the recommendation was to try to address that in some way without being specific. And you guys talked about specifics. But we wouldn't get specific. We would just give you sort of that direction. regarding the color profile. The recommendation is to lighten up or increase the warmth of the the color palette without being specific. Now there were some thoughts and ideas that came out of that. But we wouldn't necessarily get specific and tell you how to do it. We're just giving you that kind of recommendation.

[200:03] regarding the festration and and detailing let's see, I've talked about the Pearl Street profile is too symmetrical. and the recommendation is to explore tweaks that either upset or offset that semis cemetery and introduce some sort of variance in the rhythm of those of those various features without being any more specific. Yeah, that was ground for storefront. Right? Yeah. I mean, I I think it applies to the whole building. But I think we were talking. That's where we're talking about most. That's kind of where we started that discussion. The next one was. Study the concrete patterning at the entrance. which was the one that Matthew brought up that we talked about sort of towards the end there. and I don't have any more detail about what

[201:08] we mean by that, but it looks like I I'm getting that gathering that the concrete patterning of of the entrance sort of leads into this sort of dark space leads into something that is needs either more definition or something. and the the planters and the plan to design and the planter design. Yeah. And then, in terms of the railings, there was the recommendation to add movement into the railings that there's a competition between the ground floor and upper floor. I can't read that word.

[202:00] So explore breaking that up in some way. So am I. Those are. That's what I captured without getting into any more detail. We could try to get into more detail, but we don't want to necessarily say how to do it. so did I miss anything. I think that was a great summary. I think some of them kind of touch each other, which is natural, that that that matches my recollection to the only thing I would ask is you mentioned the cantilever not being a consensus item. I don't know if that's important to know in your report, but I feel that was the same to the palette. I heard Matthew say, Don't change it just for change. It's safe. So if it's important to know that that's not a consensus item. That's that's what I heard tonight, too. Okay. now, that's both of those are correct.

[203:04] That's only a minute I would offer. Do I miss anything else? How about you guys? I can't believe you took the notes. Yeah, I mean, I just I I think our objective. And this is just really to have a conversation, and a lot of our recommendations are just just to revisit or give it a second look not necessarily that you have to change the material palette. But you know, maybe we've given you some food for thought of some possible material deviations or for or studies. But it's you know our board is non finding. So I I I think that's great, and I I appreciate you not noting that. I mean, you guys invest in an extra 90 min to spend time talking to us about it. So thank you for that. But we take this input pretty seriously. Not only so that

[204:01] staff planning and council can understand that we're working in a collaborative and not combative way with you. But a lot of these suggest they're really good to. So I want to make sure that we're hearing them clearly and considering them deeply and not just so glad handy. Yeah, one of our one of the issues that sometimes comes up is that is, that that they sometimes seem a little bit abstract. And so the Planning board will read him, and don't think like, well, what did they really mean by this? And does the applicant really know what what we meant by that. So that's, you know, sometimes comes up and we try to be as detailed as we can without being overly prescriptive. Right? So so, ml, do you. Wanna I wanted to get get your input, if you wanted provide any comments here. We know you said something about, or maybe Kalani said it

[205:05] that your recommendations go to to the review and the with the case manager and the staff looks to hold the applicant accountable to Dad's recommendations is that. Did I understand that correctly? Yeah, we'll get a summary that goes in the minutes. And typically, they're a little more concise, or they're less. We don't have as many of them but in the next round of review, if this I I would assume that this applicant will have another round of review before their application moves on to to you to the planning board. And at that time that's the that's the revision that they incorporate things that yeah has recommended, or if they find that there is a issue that they're unable to do, that, they they

[206:06] either narratively explain that as part of their, you know. Submit all on what they can and cannot do. And then Staff looks that over, says, Okay, they. They've met 2, 3, and 4 and you know, we'll ask. Well, what? Why weren't you able to do? X, y, and Z, or those types of things? So yeah, I think that that kind of followed through. isn't is it clear? At the Planning board level? Brendan came last night to, you know personally talk about the you put that dab had on the Millennium project. Oh. I can't. It doesn't show up as a kind of a prominent piece of input that was that was part of the review process, it might be mentioned. but I will have to pay closer attention. Thank you. Thank you for pointing that out, because the conversations clearly are very robust and very thoughtful. And that.

[207:09] yeah, and it's usually in the packet as part of The what what happened at Deb and the recommendations are outlined in there and then as the as part of the memo. It's it's delineated out, you know. They could do this or they could do that. But those packets are large. So sometimes those things are. Now you're dealing with a lot of information. That's my role right back and report and make sure that these insights to explain it to them. It is a critical role for our planning board liaison to be able to relate some of those details right of the that discussion, too. back to planning board like that right? And it's good to have you here, especially with the design background, to help bring those to, and the nuance of the discussion. We also, you know, planning board or members

[208:04] have come in front of planning board before to talk about projects. Yeah. Well, I appreciate that staff. follow up in the review with them. I think that that is something I wasn't aware of. So thank you for that. And yeah, I appreciate the conversation today. No problem. Okay, thank you. Well, we'll let you guys go and you'll hopefully, you'll get these recommendations fairly quickly, but they go into the minutes and will, you know. Good luck with the project? And I think this was a an interesting review for us. So I I appreciate all the work that you guys did. Thank you. I appreciate that time like I said, it's important for us to enumerate these so that we're tracking them to. We take them all seriously. We love all of our children. So we. We we want to treat all these comments with

[209:03] the respected students, especially when people are investing so much the and extra time into it. So thank you. And we're we're even missing a dab member. So you're you missed out on that part. You're not going to hit us with a circular building here at the end. Okay, alright. No. I learned my lesson. Keep those coming. That was a great okay. Okay? Well, we'll we'll go ahead and close this part out then, and let you guys enjoy the rest of the evening? Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for joining us. And all that time and effort. yeah. so do we have time for. Yes, we do, we? Yes, we need to do that because there is some planning board. So they're going to planning board in this working group.

[210:02] you know. Part of it was relaying the information, but I think I just wanted to talk a little bit if we have some time afterwards, just on just on the difference between, like the zoning regulations, your purview and design considerations where I know, it seems seems money. But I don't. Wanna. I want you to go first, and then we can get a little. I hopefully, I can just kind of clear that up as far as where that kind of line is there for you? Okay, yeah, I was actually gonna touch on last night's meeting, and then quickly talk about the phase. 2 of the Polar Junction So, starting with the I went to a very exciting finding board meeting. I think. listen to to almost, I think, until about 100'clock. You guys were still deep in conversation about it seemed contentious.

[211:02] My husband said. It sounds like a soap opera but it was on the that, the student housing going in the millennium Harvest House site And I was asked to just conveyed to the planning board a a basically a summary of our conversation. and I colony. Maybe we can talk about this too. But on our dab site the meeting minutes didn't include some of the updates that Cory had had sent out. and so like, in the meeting minute revisions we talked about sort of more attention needed to be paid to the west and east facade. But anyway, at the planning board I was hoping that I'm sorry. Did that get Did you submit those to Devin

[212:00] as far as revisions? And then he submitted him to the board. and those were not the minutes that you were not that they pull off the website. And then I went into because I really wanted to to double check cause. The conversation was months ago. and I found that the recording was from It was Lauren leading the meeting, and it was from May of some other year. so I I it was really just going off of memory. I also took a lot of notes. so mostly going off of my notes. But the conversation was basically that you know the the common thread in our that December meeting was that we wanted that there was good design on the interior courtyard spaces of the building, and we wanted to see some of the material transitions and detailing translated to the outside of the building, and that special, if you you know special attention and and reconsideration of the

[213:04] East, north and west facade needed to be studied additionally. Circulation. just the detailing massing in general. and that, and that we had talked about the podium was long topic of the conversation, because that was one of the key items that we needed to talk about. I think that they did a good job of of redesigning the north facade. I I some of the moves were big, and they added windows in some of the big blank elevations. I thought that they did a really good job. on the east elevation, which is on 20 Eighth Street, and is like the most prominent. The first elevation you see. The only change they made was adding grass and trees. So I was really just disappointed to see that But I wasn't at I don't. I mean, I wasn't asked to like give my opinion on whether or not it's changed to updated. But I did say that it hasn't changed, and and that we had asked them to study it, and that

[214:13] that sort of relentless parapet horizont, horizontal parapet, height. seemed odd, especially when the other fingers of the building had step downs. So that was what I relate. I hope that I did the Board justice. if that's what. the recommendations? okay. the discussion part on the different parts. And you remember, from the recommendations. Yeah, definitely. is there? is there anything else as far as the meeting that right now you were saying, though, that the the video or the minutes to be able to listen to the dad minutes. The link online was not to the correct video or or audio. I could. It was not correct. And

[215:07] the minutes that we're online part of the package from Deb were not the amended minutes from the meeting that were approved correct. So I don't know what you know. Planning board had didn't think that our review was was thorough enough, or I I'm whatever the issue. Maybe I just there was some discrepancy and what you know or and I'm not really sure what set of meeting. Minutes went to the went to the client so. and I we're looking to that because that's troubling for me to not to know that our things are not linking correctly. as far as the the minutes right now, the way that the the dab minutes are right. They are summary minutes of the recommendations. They are not a script of the whole meeting. So it's hard to capture a nuance conversation right? And that script it, you know. It's pretty labor intensive to do that

[216:06] for staff, and then we had had some direction from planning board that it it's hard to resolve comments that are like that that you have competing opinion. So getting that kind of summary recommendation is really helpful. for applicants and for the board. But I get that it doesn't capture like the more detailed discussion on talking about the mapping and talking about the other things that A more sophisticated design. Conversation. 5 min summary of a 5 h meeting on, you know the direction we're given, which was 4 key items. that we really focused on. But we're able to to talk about the project or Co, basically. So anyway, so maybe we could just quickly do Boulder Junction

[217:05] about that discussion because not your specific discussion. But it. it seems like. And this also came up in the in the public review and the public participation early on. when that when Lynn Siegel was talking about the building. that there is a that there's a big concern with the mass of the building that seems like A, and it may be the population that it's that it's The number of people that it's going to. They're going to be there. And we're asked, and not this. I'm kind of looking at this from a little bit of an outsider, because I'm not an architect, but when when they, when we get a question about mass to me as architects, you all are talking about mass, from the perspective of how the architecture, how the architecture affects the mass, not whether the mass.

[218:04] not whether the building is just too big, that seems like more of a value judgment. So if because I can't see Jab saying you need to take off the entire fourth floor. That's not the dab question. But it is a planning board question. And I guess what I'm getting at is that when, if we're given a question about the mass. we're looking at it. Okay, it's a 4. It's a four-story building. Let's look at a 4 story building. And how do we sort of mitigate the mass of this building. Given that it's a 4 story building we're not looking at. Should this be a 4 story building. or is it for story building like if the zoning says, Hey, yeah, you can have a a 4 story building. But does that look right? Next to a one story building that design question.

[219:03] That's a design question. I think that's a design question, but I don't really know how you all see this, but from but from my perspective. gab makes design and deals with design questions. We don't deal with value questions. The value questions are come from the the planning Board and the city Council. If they want us to say is this building? Should this building be smaller? it would be. It would be helpful to know that that's the real question. and not. Just how can you make this building look smaller, even though it's still 4 stories. Does that make sense? Yeah. I mean, I think the way that I was. My understanding of what we were relaying from our conversation was. if you remember, it was a you in plan, and m and then a you

[220:01] no an N. M. And an N. Whatever it was, it's a lot of building fingers. but in buildings 2 and 3 there, they're like the fourth floor had a step down and and did tier down into the third floor. So it was already precedent in their project, for the problem with that first east elevation was that it was just flat and long and no relief, and just horizontal roof line and We had recommended that they take a look at massing like they did for the other 2 buildings, and was just curious why, they didn't do that on building one And then we talked a lot about the the podium massing and how you know. Maybe they could like push and pull or or articulate again. It's like Homoni said, we're not. We're not here to design for them. We're just here to say, this is the problem.

[221:07] and maybe you could look at some solutions to not not make this for saw it so flat. and so in terms of mass massive, just because it was like unrelenting the entire 4 floors, just one horizontal line, where we know that they can step down, and whether or not they meet their pro beyond our review, but in terms of like building articulation and making giving that help, that some interest that is in our per view question about all this, because it's interesting. I obviously wasn't involved in that. But I remember looking at that packet because there was one I was looking at, you know, applying and stuff. And I I remember thinking, like God, what it's so far along like anything the dad would say at that point is just going to piss the architects off because they're like, well, yeah. maybe. But we can't do that at this point.

[222:12] So I'm just curious, like what you know. That's in the discussion. I was like when we actually comment because the earlier. even some things tonight like it would have been great to see it 6 months ago, because we could have you know, especially. You know what it really we have. We have brought that up. That's a a sort of a ongoing issue. I mean, it seems like my understanding from last night's meeting is that planning board recommended that they take a look at the massing because it was and just how it relates to 20 Eighth Street, the new street that they're that they're building. And then Folsom, And so that was an issue that we were asked to to look at from staff, I guess, and from planning board and because they it had been recommended that they look at that. But they didn't change it.

[223:08] And then we did our a long review, and they seem engaged. Chris shares! Give us this whole like Pat on the back at the end of the meeting. You know, this was really beneficial, and I really appreciate you taking the time, and was really nice about it. and I was surprised that they it like. I said they they did make some improvements. but I think the I think Planning board was hoping that they would make significantly more. They had asked them to make significantly more improvement. So it was really more that they weren't really sort of listening to recommendations. Am I summing that up email, generally planning board meeting because I was on planning board when that came around for concept review. I guess it's been to 2. I didn't realize that But can you board? We were making the same comments last night, and the people who had been there

[224:10] for the for the concept Review will say we made the same comments. That's when we started to look closer at. Well, did they listen to that? So it was. It was It was a curious place we ended up at. Well. this is kind of on a track and on planning board, our big issues are, do we get the height and doing that. The parking relation, those are the 2 big factors that a fact. the mass. And you know the the way the building is laid out, so we do have jurisdiction over those. But You know for me that the it was just sort of surprising that

[225:06] there was there was such a large degree of disregard for the previous input. And yeah, they are at this stage. Did you see the packet? I mean, my gosh, the level of detail that the project has been work out to is is phenomenal. And so I'm glad to hear. You know that Staff tries to press. Here's what happened. Here's the recommendations. so it was. It was a very interesting. It was continued. Right we were. We're gonna get back at it again on the eighth of August it'll be the third continuation. Well, the first, second, first review, then the continuation. This will be the third time it comes back to us. and the the board is split.

[226:00] Was there a question about whether it would come back to Dan? I tried. Yeah. It was in the conversation a couple of times I tried to make that part of a condition. but It came it. It got bigger than that, you know. We deny, or we create conditions that are accountable and people, if you send it back to Dad, it wouldn't come back to us, and so we would ultimately not know. And it was a strange, long, strange We didn't come to a conclusion, except we knew that we weren't close to you don't want to deny the project. But at the same time we want there to be some measure of accountability to the concerns. So we're we're in the process of thinking about how to draft up the the conditions. That's kind of where the meeting stopped. And we decided, okay, we'll come back with that. So that's what we'll pick up on August eighth.

[227:04] If any of you were part of the 3 11 Mapleton Dab Board that reviewed that project it. That's kind of what happened in that way came back with it. Condition to look at specific things. Very, very specific things in there. but I I would say, because I know that the things that you're talking about, Brendan in the recommendations. During the discussion with the applicant on adjusting the footprint right? There wasn't a consolidated recommendation from the board, there was different thoughts on why, they, you know. how? That would shift some lunch for the applicant to program the design. and I I just want to express that if it's important to the board to see massing adjustments, footprint tonight's a really good example of functionality, of that retail space. the depth of that.

[228:02] I realized that if you need more depth there, and it impacts our parking. But you get a better active space. That's usable. The parking is not your consideration whether they meet that, whether that is impacting the unit count really isn't what you have to be concerned on. what you're that's the thing that you, I would say, if it's super important like that, that's the kind of thing we want to get into the recommendations. Yeah, because if it's if it's kind of wish you wash your. It's one person is wanting that because you're an advisory board. It's one of those things that the applicant is really looking at other pressures. Right? They're trying to all these other things going on. And they're really, gonna if that one doesn't work for them, they might not pick that up. And so it's not my job to tell them where the mechanical room needs to be relocated like if that they just not.

[229:06] and then all the mechanical like like we were talking before. If it forces all the mechanical out to the front, and we have opaque glass instead of transparency. There, those are the things we're not going to see now, right? We're going to see those later as the Ti comes in. But I that that's what I was trying to explain to the applicant tonight is, I don't think that your recommendation tonight was infringing on parking or anything else. I think it was a design recommendation. right? And that design recommendation impacts other things on site. But that's that's not Dab's priority. That's priority is the good design, you know, and those types of things so, and to see a successful, vibrant, retail space, whatever that retail chooses to be, and also attractive. I just think you know I do. A ton of port, a shell space, and it's hard to find tenants right now. I mean retail office residential, all of it. People are.

[230:09] you know, there's a lot of wooing that's happening, and a lot of spaces are left empty. And it just isn't that we see like in vibrant spaces, and like when they talked about the zoning being a 20 foot, you know, they've got to have that 20. That's minimum. That's the minimum that is not like you have to have exactly 20 feet. So best thing for without providing parking. yeah, it's not we. We question that very same thing. I like. This doesn't make any sense. And then we're like, and where are the employees going to park? If you're going for this sort of minimum, so that you don't have to provide any parking it, it gets it gets very interesting. And again, our per view isn't the conversation that you guys had which was talking about. We have to make sure it's vibrant.

[231:05] we're held to the criteria that we're held to. But I think that the input. That to me one of the big factors is the ability. Right? Are we creating a better city? And those are soft things? And I'm always trying to find ways. How does our, how can our criteria begin to hold people projects accountable to these things? So I am very, very keen on hearing this boards input that could begin to lean into the criteria that drives us. I I would like the pressure for us to say, Hey, wait a minute. We need to. and then find the bits that will support that in the criteria. So no, I think that there is a

[232:07] a very important link between the boards and the different kinds of inputs like, you know, Tab and dad and the environment, although we don't really get much input from the environmental jurisdictions. But I really hope that my role on this liaison, that with you all will help to create a better path. Yeah. And with the, with the recommendations like, on what Steven had asked about to was, Hey, when do you guys see these things? And concept plans always go to planning board first? So you're going to get the referral after the fact. yeah, maybe it's a question of do you see the same packet that they saw at concept firm right away?

[233:06] We sometimes, you know, those aren't flushed out enough in the engineering and other things that make the possibility of a lot of changes on that building happening. Right? So you know, maybe that's a discussion point to to talk about is, where's the right time to see the project? not too far along, because we we get projects for Site Review that are pretty well developed as far as the architecture. They're they're pretty far along, too. So it's it's difficult. like the first project against the project the living laboratory project that we saw. I went back and looked at. and they did, too. They showed us, you know, and I'm like, oh. look at the huge they took so much into account! It was so interesting to see. But there's a gap right, and then we see it. And it's like, well, we have to make a decision.

[234:02] So yeah, it. Unfortunately, it's it's a time issue right staff time, our time. And they go from concept to suddenly, we're at site review. It's more, so much more specificity. that we're like, and that's a I mean, that's we're always complaining in the design community. Because that's a problem with boulders process in general. There's there's plenty of cities that allow that have a pre development services or pre application services where you sit down and you pay a big fee, and everyone's happy to pay, because they know how much time it saves down the road, and you sit down and you pay this fee, and everyone's at the table. And you brainstorm, and you do the what it's and hypothetical. I mean on the development services website. There's a disclaimer right now. We do not look at hypothetical situations. We don't have the stack time to do that right.

[235:02] But quite frankly, that should be a priority, because it would save everybody time. It would make better projects. People will pay for it all day long. I mean, we architects and developers. It's not about the money, believe it or not. It's about the time. So lots of it, lots of times and stuff just takes so long, because you have to go so far down the road before you get any comments back in the then in the situation like, you know. yeah, I mean, we've reviewed projects that are so far baked that any recommendations we give we know that they're not, gonna you know. change. I mean, they're they're just the the question or the comments sometimes we make are are bigger than What the phase of the project is that? And a lot of architects are like, Yeah, thanks for your, we're just gonna keep going with what we're doing. Because but I think you're right, Steven. But like, if you kept, if you catch. If you're early enough in the design process, then you're still doing some pushing and pulling, and that our recommendations might be

[236:10] easier to accommodate rather than later phases where we already have structural mechanical systems in place. And I mean Longmont does it? You can. hey? A big fee. And now, you can have 8 different transportation engineering. Everyone's at the table before you even started the project, basically. And it's just so useful. And I don't know why, Boulder doesn't want to do it. But some day. And did you want to report on the the Boulder Junction? I do. I do it just in summary of that conversation. Ml, we are we talk often about our we're eager to be more involved. So okay, folder Junction. I guess screen sharing is

[237:04] best, should be able to let me make sure that I can. Oh, Andrew, no, you should be a ho or a panelist. Are you not able to? But now I can. Okay. So let's see. Okay. Boulder Junction phase 2. was was a good meeting. It wasn't It wasn't particularly long, but I think it was pretty productive, and the the presentation that we were given was, very thorough and fairly long in terms of slides and information that was gathered and presented. I I thought it was really well done. yeah. So it's a joint board. The other board members are from just a whole range of of boards like transportation. And parking was there? Is that right? I There were several several boards that were involved in the conversation.

[238:18] and so we were talking about this Boulder Junction phase one obviously is, is finish or or nearing completion, but it's pretty well developed, and then, phase 2 is in consideration and in conversation. Now. let's see oops. I'm alright. I just had a more Consolidated slide show. okay, so

[239:00] basically, we have this transit village area plan. so you can see in relationship to the boundaries of it being Belmont Thirtieth Street. Foothills Parkway, And then and then just south of of Pearl Street. So it does cover quite a bit of area. oh. okay, So the transportation discussions. They they tried to kind of break it into several discussions. So once the transportation discussion. Another was land use, the characteristics that they were calling it, and then public spaces. So the transportation discussion based prim. It was based primarily around this future transit station. that is not. It is built, but it's not fully finished or developed. because we don't have the the train

[240:08] or the the primary transit that we were hoping to have here. But you can see it's kind of pretty. It's pretty close to Belmont. and it, and it really bridges phase one and phase 2. So the conversations were about how how to connect the 2 with the train tracks. Kind of writing, running right down the middle of it. and also how to connect into how to keep phase 2 connected within itself with sort of the Major Major Roadway of Pearl Parkway running right through the the base of it. And then also I have. It's broken up by Goose Creek. So you have all these sort of severing elements in that in that plan. train tracks. Goose Creek and and pro Parkway.

[241:01] so how to how to literally bridge some of those elements. and how to make Pearl Parkway a little more pedestrian, that friendly and then also just connecting Goose Creek and and utilizing the the traffic that comes through that multi-use path to, to kind of bring people into the space. Or, you know, integrating that into the design. so this is I where I realized that maybe I need to go back to school for planning. But there are planners and a lot more about these particularly these abbreviation abbreviations that I had to look up while we were talking about it. But It was mostly the the use designations of this. So currently. the top zone of phase 2 is office industrial.

[242:03] And then it's it's kind of broken up and piece together as you go south on onto this map and a lot of the. And then the conversation was, maybe we just simplify it and make it. All this mixed use trans oriented development which is really flexible and it. It includes industrial, it includes a retail. It includes residential. it just gives a lot of flexibility for that whole part of phase 2. And then a third. Option was to keep this south half of the project a little more. the industrial. This mixed use industrial and then keep. Some of this is the mixed use transit oriented development because it is closer to the transit station. and then have this heighten high density, residential kind of right on the back part of what's currently pretty industrial and

[243:13] and boarding on the bike path on the multi-use path. so there was conversations about. But you know the current use looks like it sounds like it's going to be revisited regardless. And then what our thoughts were on, whether or not we liked. Which of these 2 plans? let's see. So yeah, so you can just kind of see the plans in summary. The character district was the next topic, and so it was going kind of beyond the the land use designations and more of a character designate designation. So so you know, maybe one type of this this neighbor has more of a neighborhood feel or less of a neighborhood feel, and then this has another, maybe more industrial like art artists, community space. And then this

[244:19] Pearl Parkway, maybe, is a third. Whatever character we want to start developing in there, whether it's continuing to be more you know, large industrial where healthy spaces oops Then the the next conversation was about oh, so in within the character districts. But I found this map to be a little bit maybe lacking, and I didn't. I didn't really understand what it was trying to convey.

[245:01] I mean, I thought it graphically. It looks nice, but I was also a little bit concerned about. You know. Ha! How we're designating the character of this entire northern part. I thought that there needed to be sort of another layer of design laid on top of this, like another. Another element of this map that takes into account a very busy Belmont. Very busy. Foothills, Parkway. And so maybe there's there's zones of more industrial on that on the outskirts of it. But I felt like. even within these zones or within these character districts. They're still needed to be consideration of. what? goes where? And you know, making again a lot of the conversation was about lessons learned on phase one, what was successful and what was not successful. And we talked a lot about. And I brought it up tonight in the dad meeting. But we talked a lot about how there's so much retail space back here. that is just empty storefront. So let's not do that again. Let's try and make the spaces.

[246:19] maybe more E, even if they're just one use, or you know, less fewer requirements for retail or or you know the requirement is that it's just a that work situation and you can. It's an artist studio, or it's a shop, or whatever kind of makes sense for the fabric of that neighborhood or block that it's in The last conversation was about public space. We. They had recommended a couple of nodes where they would put in sort of a a public park, or, or, you know, carve out little areas of potential parks

[247:05] within this that would be public and you know, we the conversation came to the the hub, the depot, and how that space in from the depot had so much potential. But it's really not being used at all. that it's you know what you know, while we're we have good intentions for the design of the deep of the space in the depot to be used and be activated like these images showed. I just thought, we, you know, we thought that we we just need to take careful consideration on where those nodes go, and who is going to be using the space that is for ultimately proposed. So that that really sums up our discussion. And then we have another meeting.

[248:03] next week. Well. so if you guys have any recommendations for me to bring to the meeting. I'm all yours. Otherwise I'll just keep you. And is everybody clear on how this is? This process is working for this. Is there anybody need any clarification? Is this part of a leading into a comprehensive plan? For it's an area plan. Yeah, it'll be a revision kind of an yeah question. how? How are all of the those legacy existing? P. U. D's gonna get rolled into the new plan like half of wilderness place is under this

[249:03] archaic P. U. D. You know, and I know there's several in that whole zone. Do they get overlay zoning or something. so that one. I I would say, that's a question, Brendan. You want to bring back. Okay, the process we're in right now is this, this is a a pilot working group that we're testing out. If you, we, it works having representative members. And it is going to rely on this kind of back and forth between Tab and that. So want to bring that back. That's one thing. So you should get that and and it may rely on a form based code overlay zoning. But you know, legacy. Pd. Is a great question, because it's kind of a lot of places in the city. So and then when when Brendan comes back from the next meeting hopefully, this is something that she can bring back. You guys can talk about that, too, because

[250:00] I believe that how the recommendation is gonna work is. It's gonna be solely based on this back and forth. You. I don't know if you'll ever have a joint board meeting or not. So I just wanna make sure that all of you, if not feeling comfortable with the process that we get that or you like this, and you're getting the right amount of communication because we don't want to get to the end and figure out. Oh, we didn't. We should have done Xy or Z. So this is our first round of it. But definitely, this is how we need to just kind of go back and forth. And I'm happy also to ask questions and bring some things forward, Brendan, and help you do whatever you need to do as your facilitator, as you represent the Ford. I I mean it is a bit like drinking through fire hose, because it's there's so much like you, said Matt Matthew. It's like there's so much history. And there's so much already established in that area. that you know. To me it seems like an impossible feat. And you know

[251:06] that industrial park that's that's currently here, you know, is that 50 years that that we are going to be seeing sort of some type of change because there are privately owned buildings, and so I it. It was a little bit shocking to me as an architect to think like, Okay, well, we go. You know, it's like we go from design to built on a construction project in a year or 2 years, or whatever it takes. But this is this is such a long term vision that I have a hard time wrapping my head around it, but conceptually it's cool to be part of the conversation. Well, 1 one thing I just at a superficial level is, you know, the time scale of planning is obviously much different than architecture. and I think one of my beings, with all the peds is just that that's at a time when

[252:01] areas of boulder were less densely developed. You know, A. P. U. D. Was a great way to to take into consideration site specific circumstances. and to put some parentheses around unchecked development. But the neat thing about looking at like this like a square mile scale is a good chance to like stitch back together some of those kind of unrelated neighborhoods. Right? And so. I I just think it's neat it. I I think it's a really interesting, these area plans. I kinda like, because they have a broader context, you know, but they're still at a small of scale, or you'd be like, yeah, let's plan a footpath through here, you know. So I don't know. There's no great way to plan. But I think this level of participation is pretty pretty unique. And

[253:00] yeah, I mean, I think it's such a push. And poll between looking at. you know, big picture, what do we want? What land use do we ultimately want to see in this area in the future? And then getting down to the nitty gritty and the minutia of of how we're actually going to achieve that. You know whether it's changing the circulation of this road so that we don't have an island here. You know what what faces on the train tracks and how it interacts with this transit zone, but also that you do have trains running by all the time. I mean high, like the getting down into the nitty-gritty of of how you know, if you have a vision, how? What are the little incremental steps that we that the city takes to get to like you said. integrating this very small section of boulder into the big picture. Yeah, I mean, I, this is probably too low. This last thing I have to say, and probably 2 small, a minute level of detail. But like, I often think of. the Bowler brewery that is out of business. Now in that little circle, you know. That's kind of the centerpiece of that upper part.

[254:15] There's so much housing going on north of Goose Creek on what is that thirtieth in my mind? There really needs to be multi-use path that goes east-west from just west of thirtieth, those new houses in Goose Creek. and not not necessarily because Goose Creek has multi-use, but a pedestrian or a you know, a circulation connection kind of like one block south of Belmont, you know, I mean. And that was definitely, you know, these layers of connection. going from big to small, and additions and subtractions, maybe. how do we slow down traffic here? And and maybe do we put a stop? Why, to make all of this have a better feel. But There was a lot of conversation about the different connections and different paths, and how

[255:18] how that could potentially work, you know. like an actual, potentially a road going across Goose Creek, or whatever Brendan did. You have a slide of the The board, the boards that are represented. yeah, I thought I saw that go by really? Briefly, yeah. here. yeah. So Folder Junction parking. tdm, I forget what that is signed Advisory Board and Environmental Housing Advisory Board, Human Relations Committee, open space planning.

[256:12] okay. great. We should probably wrap this up. Thank you for that report. We'll keep an eye on this. Yeah, so the next item on the agenda is before we adjourn is the calendar check. Klani. Anything we need to know about that when you, when you. when you were done with the meeting, or towards the end of the meeting. were you given like a a summary of or questions to bring back to the board to gather information on. no, they they just gave us a summary when I pretty much. okay. Gave it gave a synopsis. it. It seemed to me like this. It was more of a

[257:09] of an introductory. And just let's get this off the ground and going Then it was like I. Now I expect you to have a work session with your boards. But they weren't even sure if you we were going to be meeting with our boards before the next meeting, but it really made it sound like, and I can. I should. Probably I can send you all the meeting. Summary. But yeah, it was. There was nothing in there necessarily. Why don't you send it to me, because if you send it, it'll be a meeting on an email, and I'll send it out to everybody. Okay, that's good to know. you know, like meetings. If it's an informational meeting versus they want to come back and have a working session. That kind of is. it's all online, too. So okay? And then I'll touch Base with you, too, as you progress further. Because then, if we need to set more site time aside for you to

[258:07] work with Dab. For whatever reason. If you get tests in that sense, we can format that in a way that's going to be workable. Great good. Yeah, I mean the the summary has who was on the board and it was attending, so I can tell. I'll send that to you now that sounds great. So for Calendar next month we have a project that is in process. but I they're likely not going to have their They've got some engineering things that are going on. and they're likely not going to have their application ready by next week or due date. So it's possible that you won't have an August meeting, but you probably have a September meeting. and it's a kind of a mandatory one that's down here in the interface area and downtown. That's the town home project off of a rapporteur, so you will will likely have to see that

[259:07] coming months. But you may have an august one. If Brendan has more meetings and wants to come back and have more information to share, and that may be the for an August meeting as that that's fine. So we can always we can do those, you know. That's part of this. Okay. sounds good. Thank you. Anything else. Any other board matters. No, I I just hope that we can look into the meeting audio and meeting minutes. I haven't already scheduled to go through it, and I have the word document. That was the latest that I, if you need me to forward that someone that I pulled right and sent to you that particular word document with those minutes, or did you pull this off? Though?

[260:01] I went to my archived email from Devon and found the word documents. It did include my your ages with the red. They were all highlighted. That's the one I want, because what I have is not that one? So yeah, I want that one And then, if the link to the audio cause, I don't know what that is. and if you can send me that link, then I can kinda try to backtrack and pile the threads together on. Yeah, I just went into the meeting. Okay? And went to that month and I clicked on it. And I was like, that is not the meeting. Yeah, that. Okay, that's and that's what I want. I want. Just the if you could tell me the path or screenshot that because then I'm gonna I'm gonna trace it because I don't. I don't know where this went wrong, but I need to now do some investigative kind of backtracking and figure out.

[261:04] yeah, okay, I'm emailing you now, that meeting minute word document that's yours. Anybody else have anything from that meeting that particular minutes like I feel like I should ask others if you had edits for the Millennium project. Well, I I probably have notes because I was in edits to the minutes. That's those are what I'm looking for like credits. And well, Romey Rory does that sometimes he's I'm gonna email him that ask him if he had edits for that that were not incorporated. So yeah. And it says the deadline is passed. And there was one member who provided edits, but I kind of feel like he gave us 2 opportunities. I don't know that there was some talk during the meeting. This follow up meeting more than minutes were approved

[262:08] that it made some edit. So I I just I feel like there's a little bit more digging I need to do. But I'm more than happy to give you an update on our next video. Okay, what's happened where I I might have to email you individually and be like. you know. Take a look at this and tell me if this is correct. All right. so busy night. And thank you, guys. and our meeting is adjourned. Enjoy the rest of the evening. Thank you. Yeah. See you next time. Bye.