August 9, 2023 — Design Advisory Board Regular Meeting

Transcript

Captions from City of Boulder YouTube recording.

[0:00] There we go. Go ahead. Okay. so I'd like to call to order the August ninth, 2023 designed Advisory Board meeting. And we'll start with a call to order and and roll call among people who are in attendance. So Todd Bryan, Dab Stephen Eckert, Dab Brendan Ashdab. I'm an I'm Amanda Cuthbert. I'm with city of boulder staff. Okay? And Kalani. Oh, killani, pajoa liaison to Dan. Okay. okay? And so next, I think the next item on the agenda is public participation not related to anything we're gonna be talking about on the agenda. So is there any more general public participation that we wanna include right now.

[1:07] Melanie, I'm I'm sorry. I'm not sure colony. Are we? Are we doing that part after Brendan or just general. Yeah, this is anything not related to the item in front of the board. The discussion item. So all outside unrelated things. I don't know. Lynn has anything. Yeah. that's not related to the tbap. Boulder Junction. 2 plan. Okay? Okay, so I guess there's no public participation in that category. So moving on to. I'm I'm sorry le Lynn Siegel does have her hand raised, so I'll I'll promote her so that she can speak my time to see? Do you review things like at like absences of businesses on the Mall? Is that the kind of thing that you do cause? I have some things to say about. I wanna direct my comments appropriately.

[2:17] Yeah. no, not on that. Not business. absences are the vacancies along the Pearl Street Mall. No, the possibly planning board or the downtown Management Commission that manages the Pro Street Mall area, and they have the meeting every month, or city council. Okay, what does this board design a design? Architecture and design related issues. For, like the Hill Hotel. the Hill Hotel is part of the U. 8 design committee. So the city doesn't look at that design. They they are their own entity for that. So they have a separate design review committee for their

[3:05] okay? So you you you work on architectural design of businesses, the business community. And if there's residential, some of the downtown urban design guidelines. The board has per view to look at things in the non-historic area and the interface area over dollar amount. and then by request from either referral, from planning board or city council on a project that has a an area plan or design guidelines associated with it. So those are the projects that this board can see. Okay. I don't know. I'm sure that I have some opinion on something that you would be involved with, but II don't know specifically what to say right now, so I guess I just have to give up my time. Other than saying that.

[4:02] I hope that you try to preserve as much as you can the architectural integrity of the history. Although I know that's not part of your purview. I go to the Lvrc. Meetings, and I go to landmarks board. But the the other generalized historical component, maybe of non contributing buildings. Anyway, you know, in within your purview to to keep some of our history alive, I guess, is all that I could say. I'm sorry I can't say more. I'm sure I opinionated tab a lot of input, but I'd have to go after I heard something that you were entertaining. So thanks for giving me the time to say that. and thanks for the great question on what the Board Review is. Gotcha? Okay? So looks like we have one more dad member who's joined. So, Rory, do you wanna

[5:04] give us a little roll call here. Rory Depp? Good So next item on the agenda is the minutes from the July meeting and we I don't. It sounds like we're not quite ready to approve those minutes. No, I need those to be. We're gonna retract those minutes, so should be summary minutes instead of transcript minutes. so we will be pulling us back, editing those for the summary recommendation that you guys have. and then that will be what you'll see for the September meeting. Okay. so just a question clarification on that. So the the applicants who we who presented at our July meeting, have they? Do they have a copy of the of any of the minutes that we've drafted? I don't believe that they have a copy quite yet, so that'll be those will be sent over. The summary minutes will be sent to them

[6:02] the summary. Okay, alright. Do they have time to work that into their. I'm just worried. I imagine they're on a busy schedule, and it seems like a month. It's kind of a long time for them to wait for that feedback. I don't know what their schedule is right now, so we will get those to them as soon as we can. Okay. yeah, we got the word document. Which is easier to to just modify. But, Todd, I just wanted to. Give you some huge kudos on those meeting minutes they were like. Well done! They were really comprehensive and covered. Hello! I think the discussion really? Well. well, it looks like amanda or Devin got got some, had colony, got some added detail that didn't appear in the summary, so I think there's a

[7:00] so we won't be doing those past dial minutes in the future, or for this packet because of the one. The amount of staff time it takes to do those kinds of minutes support is not resourced for that kind of staff time. And 2 a couple of years ago, in an effort to get a consolidated set of minutes that had a action minutes that were good direction for the applicant that didn't have competing discussion topics for the for them to make changes to, and that the planning board could see. We moved to a summary set of minutes. So those are the types of minutes. That will be that you guys will see moving forward from here, and that the applicant will get the video transcript. Is there for folks if they want to do listen to the more detailed discussion. If there's nuances, do that, so I don't want to get the expectation up for the group that you will be getting these types of minutes moving forward, because that's not the case. Summary and

[8:06] and and then that'll help. It. Just provides better clarification kind of direction for folks. Okay, great. And you? And do they? They? How do they know they can look at the video transcript? It's available on the website. So we they talk to their case manager and the case manager also lets them know that any of the board meetings they have access to packets and video transcripts that they can review along with planning board can also review those to if they want to look at the video in more detail. because at the clerk's office, it's listed by board, so you'll have design Advisory Board, or if they had a visit to the transfer Faith and Advisory Board. all those boards are listed and are able to access either the zoom meeting or the audio. So you'll get both some form of recording.

[9:01] Yeah, just real quick for everyone's reference. Every single board and Commission meeting is uploaded the very next day. To the city of the city's Youtube website, and a whole library within boulder. Colorado. Gov. Yeah. So yes, sir. Melanie, having said that, I think I'm just in dealing with the harvest the Millennium Harvest House, which is probably not called that anymore. Right? I just. There have been sort of ramifications of our II think our our summary and meeting minutes being too brief. I feel like it's gotten me kind of stuck in conversations. In the presentation to the planning board as well as to the client. So my understanding was the meeting minutes, that the the sticking point from the dab meeting minutes from that time, or they were the incorrect version. Not necessarily that the summary was sufficient, but that what was submitted

[10:12] to the applicant and to planning board did reflect those changes that were you had it put in Brandon, and had adopted. And so Moving forward, staff is going to have a keen eye on making sure that the minutes are one very accurate that are going in there, and that that puts uploaded to that library that Amanda had referenced. So that's my understanding of the sticking point there. And the audio wasn't available either. So I think that was the audio. Yeah. Yeah. So that's if you don't have the correct audio, you can't look back at that, either. So. okay, those I regardless. I think, Todd, your summary was good, too. So oh, I'm sorry. Your summary is. That's why what you summarize in that portion is to be word for word that's taken into that transcript. When you move into that summary for that discussion topic.

[11:14] those that's getting put in there. So that's the time to note that circumstances or one person didn't agree. You want to kind of summarize the need of the discussion there and a big move recommendations. And then, if you want to know any other kind of special thing, too. So and so the process does. Todd do the summary, and then II guess. What's how do? What's the flow of work to to when it finally gets back to the applicant's hands? And what's that typical timeframe timeframe depends on you know how much how long it takes for Staff to turn those around. But it goes. Todd will summarize, and then that is that audio isn't taken and transcribed the summary portions

[12:05] into a draft set of minutes, and that is, give it to staff review for any technical errors that we need to clean out of there. And then from there it comes to you guys as a draft that you guys can then look at the at the process, you know, at the details, Erin, if there's some tweets like you think that needs to be made to those minutes to accurately represent what you were saying. Then those will get done, and that'll get pulled into the the version, too. and then at your meeting, that you should be approving that version to sometimes there are other revisions done during that meeting. Do that need to be accounted for that don't get adopted right away, so those may get tweaked on. If you guys look at those during the meeting time. that's typically how it goes. And then we have given applicants draft set of minutes with the acknowledgement thing. These are draft. They have not been adopted yet by the board, so

[13:05] You know there could be changes, but they do move forward in that that turn around. Sometimes they're scheduled for planning boards fairly quickly after your meeting. Well, we need time to also do the work, you know, I mean, obviously, I'm coming out from the architect's point of view, and I want them to get it like Asap, so they can budget the time the things will get actually incorporated, you know, if it's a month or 2 months not gonna happen to think about is that they're hearing the live discussion so, and they're immediately working on it. And then it's being issued. And then, if they think there was some conflict in the meeting minutes. you know, based on what they heard. What's in the video. It's available the next day that II don't think we're slowing them down as far as being able to get started immediately after the conversation.

[14:04] Sure, I just you know, people need to be able to hang their head on on stuff that's official, you know. It's important. You got your hand up there. I do thank you, Todd, for acknowledging. I don't want to interrupt the conversation, but regarding input from dab to projects. I believe that, Brendan, you came to our first. We had 3 meetings on the millennium, millennia. Harvest House project to kind of represent the dab input because of the scale of the project and all and I don't know if we have formalized a process that it would be interesting from a planning board, at least my role planning board like the planning board. Perspective. When a project has come to concept review and it has got referred to. Dab

[15:07] before it comes to site. Review site reviews review. I think it would be really beneficial if dab, as you did that time Brendan could come to that meeting when the project comes back after it's into Deb. and kind of give the little the little viewpoint, especially on projects that have a lot of public input and impact. I, we, we get so much information that we're trying to distill and understand that the weight of the dab kind of falls off. So I think, having your presence because we don't look at, you know, design as particularly as this board does. and it's an incredibly valuable piece of information

[16:03] that I think, and and I don't know how we would do that. Kawani or Amanda. If there's a way to kind of normalize that if it comes to concept, review and planning board request to go to Dad that we do. we offer Dab an opportunity. Now you don't have to, but to come and tell us what you saw and what you you know what you recommended just to make sure that your hard work is represented. because right, what I'm hearing right now is, there's nuance to, you know, design recommendations in the information but anyway, II don't know if that would be possible or not, but I think that there could be a lot of value, and I know that I definitely appreciated Brandon coming to that project, that. And I don't know that I've

[17:11] the board on. Usually the way that the relationship has been set up is that the planning board representative covers like we'll go over if there's any questions about the Dab review during the planning board. But there are those cases where it's really helpful. And so either planning board will request that or the chair a planning word will request a down presence. Typically, it's been our care the dab chair that goes to represent. But sometimes that's rotated through on who's available. So it just needs to be You know, it's helpful if there's someone that wants to, you know, be that person for the month, or for a project to go and represent. I believe, court, Rory, you've done that, too. Right? You've been to dab. Yeah. And the way that I thought it worked really well is, I mean, if you're the latest on that sitting in the meeting with us. And I think at surface level, it's the idea that you're kind of armed with more information than just a meeting packet right? Because you watch the conversation, and then I would say, based on your judgment of the nature of the conversation, the amount of detail or nuance

[18:18] that would be helpful if you then say, Hey, that was a pretty tricky project, or that you guys had a lot of really critical feedback, etc., based on what we just heard. They wanna be all make yourselves available to give an overview or be available to answer questions. I think when I sat. They asked me to just be available for clarification questions, and I ended up sitting through a 4 h planning board meeting. They didn't ask me questions, which which is fine, right is to support the process as needed. And so, even if there's any inkling that it would be helpful to have somebody involved, I think there's enough of us that are interested.

[19:02] that again, we can kind of rotate the schedule and see who's available. I think, having you kind of initiate, hey? This one seems like it's going to be worthy based on you having sat through the Dev meeting. Yeah, I think people were pretty. I think the planning board was pretty surprised as to how much depth we do go into the design of these buildings, and hopefully they realize they that can be an asset to them, and I started out that you know the conversation on the Harvest House as being this was a 5 h dab review, you know, so it's hard to capture all of that in in this summary meeting minutes, let alone a 2 min presentation to the planning board. I mean, you know, 5 h is slot to capture. But but like it seemed like there was certain tricky areas that you just needed a little more information on, so that help narrow it down for me.

[20:04] I appreciate what I'm hearing, that it falls on me to remember the value of Dab and bring it. Bring it to my board, which is reminding me why I'm here, not just to enjoy the conversation. Thank you very much. I will. It seems to me that if it comes out of planning board from a concept review, and we asked for them to go to Dab, that I need to make sure that I highlight that when I come to the to the dev meeting you know, to put it out there to see if anybody is interested in coming to to present it to. If we feel the need, or we'll have a conversation about it. But I appreciate I appreciate the process that you're proposing. Thank you very much. Okay, thank you for that discussion. So we'll review the the minutes of our from our last meeting next month.

[21:06] It looks like, we don't have any discussion items regarding applicants. So we can move into board items and we have one board item and that is a presentation and discussion on the Boulder Junction, 2 working group and some recommendations from Dab For that group. So we're gonna start with, I'm gonna kind of turn it over to Brendan and she's gonna do a a presentation. And then I think you're gonna pose. You're gonna go through different topics that you want us to think about and respond to. Right? Yes, okay. So let's let's go ahead and do that. hey? Brendan is the I was over in that area recently. So they're gonna knock down all of the warehouses that are out there right now. All that kind of 2 story low Rise office park looking stuff.

[22:06] So you know that right? That's kind of a good way to set up my sort of coming into this working group as an architect has has been really eye-opening, because in my mind it's like, Oh, we see a big change, and and buildings are torn down and rebuilt. And it's, you know, a year or 2, or whatever it takes for the construction depending on the size. And I sort of. We sort of as architects think of the change as being happening pretty quickly. But this is just urban planning and city planning is just seemingly more glacial.

[23:04] So we're talking about these changes. And so we'll see that like next month, or you know. And it's what this is like. 1020 year visions. businesses currently. And you know they can't just sees. You know, a building it has to. It's more organic, and it has to like if somebody moves out of an office building, and they want to tear it down. Well, now, it needs to be a different use or different. You can't write now. Mixed use as opposed to industrial or office. That makes way more sense. So they're basically just changing the zoning overlay. And then everything's going to be nonconforming, existing until people want to do things.

[24:09] Well, I think that that's part of what you're going to be looking at today is really what they're looking at is land uses, and that under nested underneath that are zoning. And the discussion today on land uses. And it may not be nonconforming. It may be that it's those uses, plus some of those other uses. So I think that Brendan, as you get into your discussion overview, maybe some of these questions and find our grand detail will crop up, and you can answer those as they come up. But yeah, no, I wouldn't say it's guaranteed that you're gonna have a bunch of not conforming Rory. It may be just additional new stuff there, too. Got it? Alright. Well, let's let's jump in then, and and I'm hoping that this can be a conversation, too. I mean, it was a 2 h, mostly presentation with some comments dabbled into it. But

[25:09] the the packet they give us is pretty comprehensive. And It's Christopher that it is leading. This is like wildly articulate and knowledgeable, all of this stuff. And so this is like going to a conference in Spanish, and then trying to kind of translate it for you guys. But here we go. So this is our second meeting. got it on. guys. I don't know how to go to the next page. We're sorry. There you go. See the little arrow towards the bottom, says 147, and then that little if that guy was trying to give it to you in like a presentation.

[26:01] Oh, maybe click. The arrow is. The arrow's not working on your keypad. Yeah, it is now kind of expectation for liaisons. So so. And, Rory, we went over the last time. I guess I can go you know who is on the who's on the board just because you weren't there. So it's it's this multi board working group. Just to sum up the last conversation. This is the first time that they've really had this type of discussion. Usually it's the planning board and staff we're planning staff that that goes to these other boards, and it takes a lot of time, and it's not as cohesive of a conversation. So they're trying this joint board where? These are all the representatives. These are all the boards being represented represented. So parking Tdm design, advisory environment, advisory housing, Advisory Human Relations Committee, open space board of trustees, parks and rec advisory planning board and transportation.

[27:11] and it's just really to. Well, I'll go. I'll go back to that. So in summary that expectations is for each of those members of of this join, or to go be able to go out and convey the information back to their to their boards, and then and then we can have a conversation and then bring information back to them. And their next meeting is coming up soon is on August 22. So we. I was gonna try and give them some of our feedback and summary before that, the dab hearing public hearing. I'm sorry planning board public hearing.

[28:03] So in in the conversation I did give the feedback that our in the last meeting, our board suggested that maybe we get like a specific question that we can bring up for discussion, to sort of to form a conversation a little bit better. But they hadn't. They haven't really done that yet. So it's pretty open, ended. So I'm going to. I've come up with several items that I think and slides that I think that we could, you know, help out with and insert ourselves a little bit. There has been a tremendous effort for Boulder Junction phase, 2 of information gathering community wide. you don't. j it just they're they're really like covering all their bases in in terms of getting opinions from focus groups and and

[29:03] and like, I said, community surveys and and outreach, and it seems like they're really going the extra mile to get this to be you know. Sort of a community. mind feedback and design. Brendan, before you get off of that that particular topic. Can you give us a sense of what kinds of questions they're asking in this outreach. What kind of information are they looking for from us? No, from you said. Weren't talking about this feedback. It it's all there. It goes into it a little bit in in somebody's next slides. Okay? Alright. So stay tuned so. And like, I said, a lot of the conversation that's happening in this group is focused on. the Transportation Advisory board planning and open space or parks and Rec.

[30:03] because I think that they're operating it again, like the Design Review board is is pretty specific, and we're usually reviewing very specific projects. And it's more concrete. So but II do is served my voice. in the meetings just because I it's as an outsider. I do. I do feel like I'm giving some outside, anyway. So I was thinking that. Our object objectives tonight just a summary of the things that we could talk about are the land use designations for creating commercial nodes versus the commercial being spread out like in phase one it's. It seems like it's been a little bit problematic and less so. So they have several different use uses in there. Mixed use transit. Oriented development is what they're trying to designate to this new the phase 2 but in phase one. They have a lot of different uses mixed use industrial being one of them. But it's created this this

[31:21] sense of the commercial nodes being or the commercial areas being really spread out through the whole phase, one and and then each of those commercial spaces are are empty and not being occupied. It's just not as successful, I think, as if they had concentrated. So that's one thing they're gonna try and do on phase 2 and then, secondly, the proposed urban design character that was kind of towards the end of the meeting and the end of the presentation. But I thought that was. that was something that we can touch on and speak to as opposed to the transportation maps. And this sort of was more in our purview, so improving architectural design and variety, architectural landscape design ideas for successful pedestrian corridors and pace is a big

[32:16] thing that they're pushing and then we did have a discussion. There was a image on the slide of a flood way. That had been turned into a really kind of vibrant open park and landscaped area and they hadn't intended to talk about flood plane, but I brought up that You know, I had been looking at the flood plain map. and was concerned about some of the buildings that could even be in some of the zones, because they're high hazard or 100 year floodplain or so that's something we'll talk about. Wake up! So

[33:02] now I'm going into their their slides. So We base. This is just a summary of our of our meeting. We had the introductions project progress on what we've heard, preliminary proposed amendments, and then discussion. And then the next steps. so, as you can see, just to recap boulder Junction is downlot Road south of Pearl Street. to foothills and thirtieth and actually a little bit beyond thirtieth to the north here. Hmm! We we talked about the what the Multi Group working group is. It's it seems like a pretty informal meeting. It's just a nice conversation, but well organized, and looking for our feedback.

[34:02] let's see expectations for staff coordinate meet meeting dates and agendas provide materials to review in advance and send presentations. They have been giving us a ton of information, although I have had to look up a lot of like the Boulder Junction form based code. And making sure I really understand that and and sort of the history of how some of this, how some of these came to be But so it's they. Their presentation material has been great, is just I've had to supplement it just because I'm not a planner, and I just need some additional help. so here's this, the project progress? like, I said, they have. They have been asking several.

[35:03] Let's see. I think that's that's later. Okay, this is the potential alternatives for land use. So land use is is a big, this designating these areas. To encourage certain buildings and certain development and certain uses, has proved to be really important. I think, especially in this phase, one area. And this is what I was saying, that they have they have so many different uses up up in the north part and I think that you know II keep asking, like, what are lessons learned? What are lessons learned from phase one and a. And I don't know if II sense that they kind of want to give it a little bit more time. I mean, I think one overarching comment is is about the commercial not being occupied.

[36:08] And then also, you know, we talked about the Boulder Junction or the the depot, and how it has that big sort of sea of concrete. And it, you know, it's it's intended to be sort of a really nice plaza. And then it's just not being used, or at least not so. When I drive, when I drive through it, or via that it just seems a little deserted the view corridor to it is odd like if you didn't know anything about Boulder, and you were just driving around and even walking there, you wouldn't know it's even there, and even, you know, cause that view corridor to. It's a little. It's kind of a little bit of a curve, and it's obscured. And so it's sort of like a plaza. But there's no

[37:02] visual access to the Plaza except Goose Creek, and I think that's probably a fantasy that everybody is, gonna be like. Oh, ride their bike and then have a go. Have a beer it hasn't like. Yeah, I I've been there a few times, and there's like, nobody's here. It's like Friday night. It's totally empty eating there like what's going on. And maybe there just needs to be more people living there. But yeah, there's something I mean images of of these vibrant clauses with a lot of programming and activity. And you know. And I just think when you're like only looking at overlays and maps and and then images, it's it was. It's hard to even imagine that space being as empty as it is. So it's it's just interesting how it turned out that way. I don't. I mean I there, I think there are some ideas about you know, Rtd, and what that was intended that space was intended to be.

[38:11] There isn't like a street frontage on the plaza. right, you know, if we think of. You know the European version there? Would. Your residences or retail would spill into the plaza? It's almost like it's like the back of the apartment buildings. So it's competing with itself. So it's almost like, don't bother, do us, you know, make the streets great and not try, you know, unless you're really gonna activate these nodes in some way. When you talk about the plaza, are you talking about at Goose Creek corridor? Is that? What is that? The plaza? No, this plaza that's not really on this map. It's shown as kind of green. But you know where the

[39:02] maybe we could pull up like a Google map or something. Yeah, the depot. let's see, might be easier right there in the big roundabout. But right in fairness to that, right there, they haven't finished building that particular edge of it right? And then everything behind it north of Pearl hasn't come online yet. Right? Right? It's it's this. So there's the depot. and it's I mean, it's it could be really pretty. It's just I think it's a little confusing when you're driving through here. Greenery. Where? Where are you supposed to be driving? And it's like, I was a ski racer and high school, and I feel like. are we small course, on the

[40:01] lights. I don't know. II do find when you can't park there, right? I mean a funny way. Actually, if you could park, there would actually activate it more, even though you'd have cars there. It's kind of interesting. Yeah. So we have discussed. And I guess if we're gonna that they have this whole. This whole concept has been designed around transportation. The transportation hub of being the Rtd buses that essentially left during Covid. There's still like giant stars on the maps of you know where the where they're intending for the the Braille station to be. Everything sort of centered around this rail station? And I did ask the question like.

[41:04] what you know, what is? How realistic is this rail? Is this train coming to boulder and Christopher actually said that there it's could happens relatively soon. They're in in ha having good conversations right now with the snf, so that they have that the track actually does split, and so that they can have the free trains, you know, continuing past the station and then have it was 3 commuter trains in the morning, and then 3 commuter trains in the evening. That would that would pull into that station and go from Long Lot all the way to Denver. So works is my understanding. it'd be great. Yeah. So oh, and so, yeah, let's go

[42:04] So the requirement for most of these spaces was and steel yards was, we've already pretty well built, but this was the that's one that was that was designated as being somewhat industrial. And I think that II get the sense that this is still the most successful space, because it has allowed more flexibility than some of these other which are more rigid in their designations. But it's it's just very quiet back here. I think, that there's this isn't. If you turn around, you can see this building. Actually. yeah. My friend, just moved into city art. She's like, I've got 3 dentists down the street.

[43:04] Not all of it, but a significant amount of it has these requirements for for retail. So they're talking about having more centralized nodes and and so forth. But it it is. I was I wanted. I was asking for Lonnie if we could do like a geek out as a on a as a board, and go walk do walking tour. But I guess that. Well, one of the things over there, too, the lots are so huge. I mean, you can see it on the even in that map that you had. And so what happens is, you know it. It's difficult to pull up, I mean, if you've ever has ever been to Portland, Oregon, right? It has all these little nodes of like commercial retail and stuff. But they're all tiny. They're like 20 feet wide. And they might be free stories. But and a lot of it. They looked out right. They had this super cool warehouse stuff that happened to be built at just the right time.

[44:03] To be reuse. But a lot of these are so big. So you know, you're you're talking about the developer, the lot owner having to like develop, you know, 6 or 8 properties right? And make it work somehow in terms of retail. and it'd be really great God! If you were allowed to subdivide these into much, much smaller lots. And see, you know, cause then it could grow a lot more organically. You could have people. you know, who are much smaller developers, you know, doing stuff. but right now they're just so big, you know, you have to be a big entity with. you know. And so it's you know, you're fighting that battle of like trying to falsely create. You know, a bunch of diversity or organic growth in one giant lot, and it can be tricky. I mean, steel yards done a pretty good job of that, you know they have.

[45:05] But yeah, that ha! That has come up in a lot of conversations of you know, some of these lots are enormous, especially in in this phase, too, at the end of the the women's place, loop and having opportunity to not only break up this lot, for example, but but also create some transportation connections, whether they're roads or by paths or so I think that breaking up these lots has some some benefit across. Yeah, looking at like the minimum lot size being, you know, a lot smaller than this. we're planning to amend hoping to amend so this is office, primarily office industrial and then this is so I I'm such a

[46:04] I I'm so dependent on these little keys down here. So the IM. Oh, industrial mixed. Use 2 and one, and I can't remember the difference between the 2. But industrial mix use. One is kind of in keeping. What is there already? And then an industrial mixed use 2 is is more industrial, and then this is again keeping it pretty much as it is now, which is office industrial and so we would like to move away from that And again, we can talk about the transportation connections here. and have it be a lot more flexible, have it be more flexible? So oh, okay. So in their focus groups. So these are the focus groups. You guys were asking about

[47:05] it sort of what they heard. So they had 8 focus group meetings, 2 open houses. 2 online questionnaires 3 site tours, 3 outreach events, one multi an internal work session. And then the city council study session. And what they're hearing is that they want to maintain and encourage local small businesses, light industrial services, retail, etc. Because there is some good industrial, you know, in the Boulder soccer, and in that center swath there are some industrial uses there. And then again, south of Pearl Street that has become little high end industrial, maybe kind of businesses. the pickle mall and the gym and the workspace in the pub brewery.

[48:06] so allow. Allow. Allow for more housing and mixed use opportunities, add more bike and pedestrian connections, make it feel more like boulder, consider regional or cultural attraction. Create a gateway experience and then evaluate better, safer connections to adjacent neighborhoods. What's the gateway is that like people if they're coming in from the train from Denver. This would be like the gateway in the boulder, like that way, or like gateways to the neighborhood from different approaches, or both. coming from north and from the east in the direction of the west. That that is kind of a gateway of sorts, although the high, you know, foothills creates a little bit of a of a boundary barrier. But

[49:02] you know a gateway experience, for example, at foothills in Belmont. and then, like Pearl Street going under the foothills highway. So in that sense a gateway of arrival into kind of getting like the outskirts of downtown, but mostly to Boulder Junction itself like a cultural, regional attraction. That would be sort of like a museum or something. Theater. Theater. Yeah. Yeah. Museums theater. no. Chinatown. We need a Chinatown in boulder.

[50:03] You know, the initial feedback was more flexibility, and land use makes sense. Greater densities. Activities would make the rail more viable. Traffic calming measures along Pearl Street, Parkway. There was discussion about putting in a a stoplight. It on Pearl Street. coming out of the You know, there's just that one. There's only really one intersection onto Pearl Street. But it's it's really busy. It's coming. if I can get back to a map right? Yeah. But you know what's so interesting about this is like. it's, you know, it's transit oriented development. Descartes frontier But like the the future of

[51:00] transportation is. So up in the I mean, like in academic circles of planning schools like people don't even know what's gonna happen like with driverless cars. We might be having, you know, fleets of vans that are picking people up, you know. Maybe that in front of the depot is where they drop everybody off. And so it's like, it's almost interesting to be like, okay, we're planning around all transit. But we don't even know what the future of transit is, you know. And then then it could change so quickly. just many ways. So that flexibility is the key. Yeah, super important. And I don't know if you ever tried to turn left onto Pearl Street, coming out of Frontier Avenue. It is it? It takes forever. And people are going really fast. They're talking about this being an OP. Maybe an option for a stop sign. You know, they want to create more opportunities for pedestrians and cyclists to get

[52:05] both across Pearl street under Pearl Street, and then also with this border of the train tracks seems to be problematic. Yeah, cause you come off foothills from the north, going west, and you just zip out and it the traffic doesn't. There's no light or anything. So that's all staggered. So yeah, you can never just like waiting? No? Oh, and then someone's coming. The other. Yeah, that's yeah. It's like obvious. You need a traffic light there. Brendan, is there a model or a prototype of that that people are sort of drawn to have. Have. Has anybody tried to look at anything that any place in the country, or any place in Boulder or Denver, or any place like that that seems like a a viable model that attracts people.

[53:01] I mean, they haven't mentioned that in our in our group. I mean, I think that they're they're really gathering models and ideas from from everywhere. And some, you know, just in terms of like the urban planning knowledge that on the staff, and you know, in general, I think that they are pulling from. But they didn't specifically say where. I think it's a lot of lessons learned and boulder specifically and older businesses specifically. And then, you know the priorities that we've placed on on pedestrian and bike paths and cycling and and also but we're not not affordable housing, but attainable housing, I think, is what we're calling it. It's not affordable, but it's

[54:04] almost attainable. So and then also. you know, with the with the idea that that they are hoping for this node of transportation of of the train, and rt, maybe hopefully. Rtd, coming back. That'd be nice, Todd, have you been down to Lowry recently? Cause I'm thinking. You know, there's some parts of Lowry that are similar sort of mass and scale that are working pretty well. I mean, forget about that. Necessarily. The architectural style, but the sort of mass and scale, and some of the retail again. Much smaller lots, you know, Tiny. But and then this is this has come up a lot to the question about how to make privately owned space public.

[55:03] You know, how do you? If it's private land, how do you make make it into a park? You can't force them to make a park out of it, or a plaza or and so they're they're talking about the OP. Options of partnerships. And also just maybe carving out some put potential nodes that they can work into the plan to be successful as a maybe a public private partnership. I mean, could it be just like that picture? There we have, like those steps. I mean that scale like much smaller scale kinda quasi-public. I don't know like encouraging that kind of yeah. And I think a lot of you know, this notion of the pose and the corridors they're gonna get, you know, because they do have

[56:02] a little more control over the streetscape. And that's not shared ownership. see? So so focus views by the focus group type, advocacy group emphasize child safety areas, focus on families and small businesses housing across Goose Creek corridor, and city support to reduce reliance on cars. day. Daily users emphasize internal connections, maintaining neighborhood services and opportunities for jobs for locals. And I thought that that was that really resonated with me because they have been. They have been speaking to the racial equality is is a huge conversation and a goal, I think, for the city and you know. in in my mind, if you give them the housing. But then you take out these industrial drops that they could potentially be

[57:05] qualified for or working at, and you move them to long on, or whatever then that that doesn't help, you know. Now they're still. It doesn't help them be able to access the same things that people who don't need to commute can access like you know, if we provide the Ha House attainable housing, you know. They also need to have opportunities for for parks and big parks and playgrounds, and and then also jobs, you know, making sure that they they can work and and have it be not reliant on cars. So I thought that that was interesting from development and design or daily users. Yeah, I mean some some types of I mean, I'm just popped into my head thinking about Lowery. There's the International School that's down there.

[58:01] And it's probably private school. It's probably 15,000 square feet. But you know it's in. It's very walkable. It's like, right in the neighborhood. And you know this. if you're gonna encourage kids, I've you know. Obviously, you could have daycare, right is one. There's some challenges. But a neighborhood school, I mean. Unfortunately, Bbsd and Roll. Really Colorado in general. it's kind of given up on neighborhood schools, cause they. darren, they don't pencil out right? It's much easier to have 700 kids in a graduating class, then a hundred. But you know, some you could encourage. You could definitely. There's tons of private schools in Boulder that would love to get their hands on, you know, like a 15,000 square foot building right in a neighborhood like this. You'd have to abandon parking. You'd have to just be like, you don't need to park this building. Just

[59:03] kids are gonna walk. And did that come up at all like parking like, just sort of why not this be a test case for, like what they're doing? And Portland and Minnesota and Milwaukee, you know where they're just no parking requirements like, do you want to build a restaurant and don't provide parking? Well, it's not. The risk is on you. Yeah, you know. I mean, that could be some. This could be a great place to so really push that, you know. And say, Hey, this transit? We're in development. We're not. Gonna we're gonna do one to one parking on the residents. And you know, commercial. I don't know it would be. It'd be pretty cool. I mean, it's coming right? Hopefully. I mean, it kind of brings us back to this conversation about that junction place. Where does the parking actually create energy in that plaza.

[60:00] You know, people would be able to easily access like today on the 20 Ninth Street Mall. I just needed to run in a very quick errand. But there's parking on that street, is. There's no time limit. So you have employees probably just parking all day long in these parking spots right? And II feel like it. Would. People would use that mall more if they thought that they could just park there easily and get in and out quickly. So I'm mixed about the I know that I know the boulder is kind of going in that direction that we'd like, and and and the projects that are being reviewed are asking for parking big parking reductions. I'm sure there's a push pull. But I was gonna say that that currently, there is this acorn, and it has that program associated with it. So first start, I can't remember. So I mean.

[61:01] create like creating more of those opportunities. I think you're right would be or preserving but, like you can see in that plan this again, the size of that lot because of the parking requirements put on that school that. you know. There's also some pretty funky outdoor space requirements for elementary forum preschools. So I mean. It's like you can't create a walkable dance. urban, funky, cool experience and have the Acorn school sitting in the middle of a gigantic lot surrounded by. you know, parking and playground. Yeah, that's not. We're never gonna pull it off unless we really say, Hey. you know. you can build a lot more, or you can. You know the footprint is the building. The lot is the footprint. I mean, it's

[62:03] yeah. I mean, this is this was the industrial outskirts of boulder, and now it I think it the the density has been successful all along, and I think that we just need to continue that momentum across the way. so a design, a development and design. Their feedback was emphasized external connections and place making elements questions on how infrastructure improvements will be funded and mechanisms to support small business. I think you know, when you start at when you start looking at, for example, and I didn't know this before, but you know, if you try and make a the requirements for an overpass over the rail tracks is is insane, and then you can't make it. It has to be so high, and then you can't make it. You know, Ada, accessible if you don't. If you don't have

[63:03] 10 miles of ramp and then an underpass is is expensive, and I think there, you know, we keep throwing our underpasses in this meeting. But the transportation member on the board did remind us how insane, expensive these underpasses are, and that we just progressive here. You would have any of you guys been to Japan. seen and been to any of the train stations in any of the cities or towns in Japan, because they're their train stations are completely that sort of commercial hub. So you, you know, get off the train. It's inside a building. That's where the grocery store is. That's where the daycare everything is in the train station. And it's almost like a big building. and you know it's pretty.

[64:03] It's pretty cool, but it's completely the opposite of what you know. Well, kind of what we are used to. Right like you get out of the train, you walk. But right? And it's really active that transition to bring people to to that area and then the bus left. And then. Now, we've developed all of this stuff around this train station, and we have no train. I just I think maybe we you know we it makes. I was sort of feeling a little pessimistic. But Christopher makes it sound like they. They're moving forward on all of this stuff. And they're in conversations with Rtd and this could potentially be something that that we can

[65:05] a see in our like that? Calvani has her hand up? Yes. so because we're trying to get to those questions, Brendan, at 1 point, because the discussion is varied so far, I just wanna make sure that we earmark that those questions that you put out there. Those are the things that are gonna get summarized in the minute. But and I know that to make. Please let us know when you get to that part, as far as summarizing for that, because it'll be hard to kind of track and figure out what those are, unless you're give it your market for us. No, I haven't bookmarked. So thank you. so other focus groups, responses for property and business owners in that area expressed caution was requiring too much mixed use, and I think that was lessons learned from phase. One emphasize, adaptive reuse, organic change, architectural variety and innovation. Creativity. Eclectic. 5 of South Goose Creek and then.

[66:19] there was a lot of just keep bolder, weird kind of so so this is the councils feedback. It was to make basically this entire phase 2. This mixed use transit, oriented development, and then and then the Goose Creek Park area and that that the consensus is that mixed use transit or oriented development is. It's so broad and inclusive that really it just gives a tremendous amount of flexibility for industrial, residential, commercial, cultural like we're talking about a museum or any of those things can can either remain or or be built in here.

[67:16] but then in the next few maps we'll we'll see sort of where we've landed. So let's see. Caps Council's feedback. That, yes, agreement on potential changes to transit connection paths and plan. So this was the conversation. Stephen, going back to you can see this. this giant lot here at Wilderness Place. potentially slicing right down the middle of it. To create to, you know, up transportation connections. And then also, you know, a lot of this is pedestrian and Viking

[68:00] connections. Some of it. Some of it does help with traffic issues. in that zone setbacks or something. Because, you know, if you're gonna if you're gonna divide it up like that which I think is great. You also should have 0 lot lines, and really let you know the buildings be right next to each other, or have very small slots. I mean, there's again. You'd have total flexibility. you know, and how you do if you have, you know setbacks all the way around. Then you're again. You're just back in these kind of well, so that's a good point. So I think that Mut does allow for more flexibility and the setbacks. But I and that is a discussion that we haven't really got into yet would be the form based code. and then Broadway.

[69:07] The Broadway Hospital project has also has a form, its own form based code. So I think that hasn't been developed yet. But, we will be talking about that. Urban design and outdoor spaces. Council feedback. Yes. So this is their working session. The place types to describe the character of future outcomes and identify future areas for outdoor gathering spaces. We talked about this last in the last meeting, where area one area 2 and Area 3 would have different sort of character. II didn't feel like that, was this. That was the way to break it up. I mean. It seems logical in the map, but I also am concerned about, you know. if this is all residential. For example, if if you have houses that are along the train tracks and along foothills that doesn't seem like the best. Use

[70:08] north and south for some of those lots. So while these are broken up in threes very horizontally. I just I wonder if another layer needs to be added to that conversation. So this is. These are the proposed amendments that that are going to be presented to the planning board on August twenty-twond so proposed land use community feed giving them the community feedback. Of that they want to allow fix flexibility for housing. mixes of use and taller, larger buildings. Again, kind of that density. Conversation maintained light industrial and service uses and more green areas and gathering spaces. And then how it was, how it's going to be addressed. Mutd, that mixed use transit oriented development. Land use is the most flexible land. Use category. The mui applied to Old Pearl Street.

[71:14] And we'll see the map for that in a second. And then the Pku identifies desire for enhancements along Goose Creek. So here's the new. This is the proposed amended map. So it's not just mut but also includes this mui, which is essentially what just behind steel yards. Is what that has been designated. And I think that that's been pretty successful in phase one and then and then the South would be that back to the mute Od, and then these are potential centers or nodes. And again, this big star is the train, and then this would be the Rtd. as

[72:00] as we continue this conversation about transit oriented development. Right and so I just when we got the meeting summary from our meetings and the key takeaways. That I've added to the slide where that some board members express support for the Mui Land use designation along all Pearl Street to encourage ongoing access to jobs and community services. That's what I was saying about. we're providing attainable housing. But let's also keep jobs in the area while others were not particular to mui or mut in the areas they felt both would achieve successful outcomes. I mean, they both are very flexible. and and what can be built in there? Several members remarked that retail is to disperse in phase one, and like the idea of concentrating retail around future notes of activity. If there's a slide in a bit that calls out this as being the main, a main creating like a main street

[73:05] on old Pearl Street. and extending that and connecting it, and and making that. again, talking about the concentration of commercial and retail spaces that could be an OP. Opportunity for that. Did you guys talk about the the inner, the edge of like Goose Creek to those other zones I'm just just thinking about like I don't know, like San Antonio, or something where you have like something like that. And you could have like restaurants and stuff like on that edge, you know, like a super dense like cool. something unique, right? Cause we've already got Pearl Street we've got. you know. So what would be cool over here? That's unique, like, wow! What if it was like it? Really, you know, almost like way back right. But but way back, you know, almost doesn't interface the bike path right there. But it could right. It would be super cool if it

[74:06] did, and this would be like an opportunity to do something like that. I'm just curious what that they there has been a lot of conversation around this Goose Creek area. I mean it. It is like high hazard floodplain. But in in integrating, I think, that this is a great opportunity for that public private partnership and also and also that this is just land that the city that has a little, a little more ownership of and control over. So I mean, of of this entire project. This is this is what they have the most control over really aside. it being in the flood plain. Right? So several members remarked that retails to disperse and we already said that so and then what kind of retail.

[75:03] you know, getting back to the rat size and size of things. you know, cause we don't. We certainly don't need more like yoga pant stores and Patagonia. I love all those stores, but how many of them do we need in boulder? You know we like we don't have any more boutiques. They're all gone like to clothing shops and all that stuff is gone, you know, and it's like this, maybe. Is this a place where it could happen again? I don't know. I think that. The conversation has been more around, like maker spaces and creative kind of spaces and art studios and keeping it industrial retail. Well, I was confused, because when you drive into Nobo now, it says Nobo art district as if it was gonna become like rhino in Denver or something. But then I get in there, and

[76:04] there's no galleries right? They're trying, I guess what bomulk is going up there. Yeah, exactly. And they're hoping to get a library up there. So I think it, it's gonna happen sooner. I mean, it really depends what happens on the west side of Broadway. Right there. There are galleries, but you just can't find them. They're tucked back in the warehouses. Yeah. So okay, so transportation in particular, community feedback was enhanced internal pedestrian and bicycle network use connections to break down larger blocks into more urban character. Balance, visionary ideas for feasibility. So again, that was let's be realistic about how expensive it is to to build under passes everywhere people focused on can. So how is this address? People focused?

[77:00] Connections, people focus connections are prioritized over particular, which is very evident. In that plan. And Steven, that kind of answers my question, and pedestrians over parking spaces and do you need to kill the traffic? Several multi use past, and sidewalks added, and then revised in feasible or redundant connections? So they have been eliminated, or kind of make it more rational. Yeah, a lot of these connections in here are are pretty obvious. and then, again, this is, this is not I think this is also pedestrian I can't remember, and those buildings are like existing or no. Those are like hypothetical. All the gray or hypothetical and summer existing. Okay?

[78:01] alright. Yeah. Okay. I think. Has there been any discussion about. you know? Try like listening to some of the conversation. You know, it's kind of almost trying to tailor it to a personal desire or whatnot, as far as experience. But at a certain point, you know, it's market factors, right? So the fact that there's no boutiques in downtown boulders because there's the cost of those tenant spaces is skyrocketed and people can't sell enough trinkets anymore, you know, to kind of be able to afford those spaces. But then the same thing here, if if the goal would be to ultimately encourage redevelopment so that it starts to take shape and life and and you know, I guess, being careful not to be like this block can only build this particular type of retail with this particular type of housing. And so you gotta find a very special person who wants to, you know, check off that particular site

[79:09] as opposed to this more organic component that II see showing up in a in a couple of places in the notes, Brendan, as far as again, like the vibrant cities of history. have evolved just on kind of market demand and and necessity, and and have changed shape and form over time, and you've got. you know, a lot of cafes occupying old banks or something, you know. but there's still kind of a pattern you know, of again, in terms of like lot size and things like that. You know. I've only bring up Portland because I just was there a week ago, and you know they do have boutiques, because it'd be like. Let's say, we took one street in Newlands right now and said, we're gonna allow retail all along this street. And although the houses become retail right, and Patagonia is not going to go in there.

[80:05] And so you sort of have. If you want that kind of stuff you do have to kind of create the conditions for something like that to happen. So it's trick, you know, because the market here, what would the market. Say, I guess, reacting to this, I don't know what it would be. Maybe it would be like. Well. how is he? How is he like the market wants, I think. You know they're seeing that Patagonia or Boutique nobody is going into the phase one II mean. I can't say nobody, but there's a lot of empty spaces. in that phase, one. But I also think that they that the idea is from the community feedback is that they don't want this to be the 20 Ninth Street Mall like they want to be industrial and arts artsy and funky and

[81:02] And you know car mechanics, and next to, you know, calories and a brewery, and to keep it just organic and funky. So I think that there's rather than encouraging this high, high level of retail that we see all over Boulder. I think that they're really trying to preserve the character that that is is currently in there as best they can without having it turn into a 29 street mall. And all these kind of cool, industrial. funky spaces that are there now. Well, it's interesting. I I'm gonna be. So it's gonna be interesting to watch, because you know, a lot of phase, one is th. The desolation is just poor timing relative to Covid and some of their anchor 10, some of their anchor tenants like splunken things like

[82:00] they didn't. You know they were, gonna have hundreds of bodies roaming around out there looking for lunch, looking first to take a meeting, and I think that's starting to come back now and then in combination with that thirtieth and pearl. Do we know how many units are about to come online in the next 6 months, when those are all sealed? Curtis Park. Deli just opened on came up from Denver and opened the storefront on thirtieth there, and Pearl, just south of Pearl East Thirtieth. And if you know, if there's 300 units coming online soon. hopefully, we'll start to see, you know that there, there's just that much more energy and and and bodies looking for stuff to do in this area? I guess the question is it like a destination versus, you know, stuff services for the people that are living there. you know. That's part of it, too. Yeah.

[83:01] So this as again, the the last meeting was was highly focused on transportation. So we did get a lot of meeting takeaways from it. A lot of conversation came up about this particular connection, which you know, if you look at this map it to me it feels like a somewhat of an island, I mean, they really cut off by and foothills and then, so, knowing that we can't do underpasses everywhere. There there really is. Just Goose Creek is essentially, and then and Perl, our biggest connections right here and then they would have a connection to the training station, obviously and then there there was conversation. From the tab member that that said that you know, we need to start thinking about reducing these number of overpass of underpasses and overpasses. But you know, this is a this is a connection here that that has. They've put a lot of money into this connection. That sort of dumps you at Google

[84:07] and it dies at the at the railway. So what II think that this is the May, maybe one of the most important connections here, because they've already put in so much by path and infrastructure. But but essentially it's it's Perl and goose Crete that are the only real connections across the train tracks. It's just such a a barrier until the the station gets built right? Because obviously, just the nature of the station you have to be able to get on both sides of the tracks. Basically, it's just that there's no trains going to it.

[85:08] and then it's had. You've seen that in rhino where they have elevators, and you know stairs, and then the overpass and coming down. But it it's a barrier for sure. And then huge parking lots always. Because when you get off the train, where are you going? Okay? So there's that stop light but I mentioned, and then a big connector between Wilderness Place and old Pearl Street. I think that's an important connection right here. And so this is BC interiors and boulder pickle ball. And thank you.

[86:03] Brandon is the can you go back to that map? One more time is the is the bike? Is the bike path? Huh? Part of Goose Creek? And and doesn't that connect to the entire bicycle path and network both west of there and east of there. I mean, that's the principal connection, right? That's the biggest connector kind of the only pedestrian connector, currently right? Besides sidewalks. yeah. it's it's access. It seems like a huge connector. It's a huge connector, and maybe one of the only yeah. that I think that we could. Have some

[87:22] some conversations about this. So the proposed amendments and the urban design talking about specifically about this, you know, Frontier Avenue Sanitus brewery. There's another potential division of of property. I sort of reallocating spaces in here. And then these pedestrian quarters and pace. And you know what makes what makes this successful. And it, Steven, a lot of what you've been saying about the 0 lotline opportunity and pedestrian opportunities. But this, just like this image feels cozy.

[88:10] And then this image feels like the boulder the plaza in front of in front of the the restaurant. But as people on it, I think that there's opportunity like maybe it is that we just need more occupants in those in the houses really want kind of rhino like. That's what it sounds like, right? I mean, like art studios, galleries, funky rest, I mean breweries, brewery, which would be great. But I wonder if, like the cultural peace. I mean, what would be the anchor here? Right? I mean, I think they wanted the depot to be the anchor, and it just hasn't. It isn't. And I don't know that it ever could, because it's really just a restaurant, right? It's never gonna be

[89:01] more than now. Maybe if it was like a open mic music venue or something, you know, improv like some. I don't know. I mean. it feels like it's gonna be a lot of observational opportunities in phase one. So cause it wasn't that whole concept in phase, one like a wounderer. And there was like no cars. Beer garden spills out into the street. And you you do have splunk right there like we, said Rocky Mountain Institute. I I'm under the impression Google is now requiring all employees to come back to the office. So I think we've only seen a fraction of the bodies that come in and out of the Google Campus Caddy Corner. It'll be interesting to observe if phase one actually performs as intended in the next, you know, year and a half 2 years, when stuff is coming online. right? And how that

[90:00] I don't know. I just still think it would be cool to have some kind of anchor in there, like, you know, I'm thinking, like God. Imagine if you had, like the exploratorium like in San Francisco, the children's museum that's like spectacular, something like that like in this neighborhood that like, really, people wanted to go to. you know, and yeah and ride their bike there. And you know, I just don't know. You know there's that junkyard social currently in there, and that's that's draws a a fair number. But it is pro again. It's private. right? So how do you get. How do you get more public participation in these privately owned spaces? But I agree, I think. you know, making making more public engaged spaces like like museums and theaters and art schools, or

[91:04] so like pottery lab, kind of spaces. Yeah, that's a bummer. Cause I just moved way north. I know. Yeah. So let me ask this like seeing that they're they're taking to me like when you're talking about like rhino. And then the mechanics next to the brewery kind of thing. And then maker spaces, I mean, you're quite literally describing the senitis building. and even, it's character, you know, like some long industrial quantit type building that can build affordably so that it can support, you know, tenants of that quality. But then, seeing that they want to cut that in half, or maybe it's just a passage through the middle like a little tunnel. They should have more airstream trailers like they have in the one space. I love that I think that they are gonna have to work with that. The conflicting desire of the community to, you know, to keep this as it. It's, you know. Some of these spaces are car mechanic shops, and they're like hard junkyards. And that character and those jobs.

[92:17] you know, with with this next door to it. And also I don't know. I think it's it's conflicting for sure. Well, it's interesting, because right across foothills is just more of that. That arguably has more of the organic piece in it, because you got like vision quest brewery tucked in there. You've got that divine spirits or whatever, and they kind of throw parties and stuff. They're literally just right. Next, they're like in a quandet building next to the autobody shop, right? The place that has like the Oh, I've done improv in there. That's like there's like a little theater on the end of one of those I'm forgetting. Name of it.

[93:07] And so you know, and and then there's that cafe that everybody likes on the bike path right there. So in a lot of ways that has. you know it it is, is foothills a natural barrier to say, Hey, let that sort of activity happen east of foothills, and this needs to be more integrated into kind of thirtieth and parole kind of vernacular that's starting to arrive? Or is it nice to kind of bring some of that activity across foothills to kind of link it. Yeah. yeah, I like that. because that is mixed, and it's funky. And it's up the east of foothills. so so

[94:02] yeah, I mean, I think another conversation that we keep talking about is like. you know, creating these nodes. And we'll look at that in a second. But you know, are these the right opportunities for for these kind of sidewalk moments? And to sayos, II get concerned about this along the the tracks, which is turning into a bit of a Boulder Creek by path situation where there's there's some camping happening back here, and I mean, is there? If there's public private, I mean, maybe, is this stuff need to be so defined? Could it be like encouraged like, say, Hey, if you wanna. you know, build this through the middle of your building some kind of thing. we're gonna Co, build it with you. The city's gonna like, cough up dollars and be like, Yeah, we'll we're gonna do you wanna pay for half? It will pay for half of it.

[95:02] and we'll encourage you to do it, you know, but but where it ends up it's a little bit like. you know. You walk around, see, use campus, and there's like a you know, cut off on, you know, cross up green or something, because that was like actually where it needed to be rather than like, Oh, here, okay, here's where it's all defined right? Because people aren't going that on that path. right, you know, and but like encourage the owners of these buildings to do something with, you know. But then you gotta back it up with money. right? I mean, rhino's a funny example because it was all this mechanic shop crap that then just happened to be the cheapest real estate near artists to have big, you know. spaces that they could paint all over and not worry. And then some cool restaurants and boutique retail started coming in. They were doing the flea markets down there and stuff fast forward. 10 years! What you have is thirtieth and pearl mixed use buildings, and Patagonia

[96:19] gets gentrified, so to speak. But what's interesting? It's it's almost it like cause. That's exactly right. It it was existing building infrastructure that became gentrified. And then redevelopment happened around it in it. And now, north of it, cause it's becoming this hot link. whereas what I think I'm hearing is. you know, this is all kind of under the the premise that it would be new building stocks somehow embodies the kind of grit and authenticity of what happens. Mid gentrification of existing building. Right? Exactly. How do you? Re, yeah, exactly like the taxi building.

[97:06] All that stuff is like super great, you know. 19 twenties, thirties, forties, buildings that were well made. funky, cool spaces that were like easy to make even better. But we're talking about. you know, are we really gonna come in here and do dry wall boxes with stucco and hardy? You know, it's like great, you know, that's not gonna pull it off? Yeah. And then, are we like, is there a way with with some sort of, you know, zoning, overlay, or like, or use code, or whatever that you can almost freeze development or gentrification at that special point in time where it's like there's enough cute boutiques, and you feel safe enough to walk down the street at night. But there's still some grit and graffiti and guys, you know, welding shit on the corner. I mean, that's just like this.

[98:02] Well, I think that's a size thing. I think that's again. I think that gets to a lot size it gets to who owns it, you know, if the lot, and the buildings are small enough that individual people can own it. Then it's gonna hold that. you know. Sure. At some point, you know, Patagonia buys 4 of them and puts their store in there. But That's the only way, you know, if it's just big, big lot that they've subdivided to look like little lots. There's still gonna be one big owner. There's no real vested interest in the neighborhood. I mean, we really wanna encourage is like you want the mechanic to own the building. you know, and stay there. And okay, maybe he's not fixing Volkswagen's. He's fixing Tesla's. But he's still there.

[99:14] Yeah. So this map was kind of it was the first I'd seen it since our between the first and second meetings, and it it addresses a little bit of the concern I had about the Verdi, the vertical zones of the of the character, the design, character spaces. Again calling this the main street that work while still keeping. I think this is the part that's most important to keep funky, cause it, it's so mixed. I really like the idea of pulling over some of these idea business concepts. Along Goose Creek that take advantage of of overlooking the creek and having that open space. And II think that that's a a good example for sure. And then these are again, these these nodes that they're proposing. This one would have to be more of a public private partnership.

[100:14] but the the image that they put on this gathering space slide was of it's similar to this the the flood way, like Confluence park, Rei, I can't remember if he said, that is the space, or it's similar to I don't think. No, I mean, there's water right, of course. So of course not. But II just this. This image really resonated with me because of this Goose Goose Creek opportunity. Seems like a no brainer for for creating kind of this. This floodway bike path, public private partnership.

[101:02] But then I started looking at the the flood map A along this area, and thought that that maybe this area might be might turn into this again. There's no water. There's not really water. Here it's it is but it, you know. Maybe it could be an opportunity for something like this that that I think could be pretty successful, and you have, like senitis, this is probably the most outdoor the one of those vibrant spots in this area, just because of the brewery that had. That's right. But I still think, even in that picture in the right, lower, right there, that I mean, what are you doing there? Right? I mean, you're riding your bike. I mean, you really gonna wanna bring your kids there when you could go to a bunch of other places in town that are more.

[102:02] I don't know. I mean, yeah, it's gotta be programmed. And I wanna you know, it'd be great to see those art galleries right along that path, you know, like, why does it need to be? I know everyone talks about open space right? And we need outdoor. But there's different ways to think about that it doesn't always have to be like a park quote unquote. I mean every park I've been to that. I've actually sat down for extended period of time in the middle of an urban environment usually had a really dope. Pop up bar. Yeah, something. I mean, I remember all the discussions in the you know the Civic Center downtown. And they had all these meetings, you know, and in the end they they built exactly what the first plan was. And it's there's some okay stuff. But it was such a missed opportunity. I know it's all in the flood plain.

[103:01] I remember showing them up Museum that Zaha Hadi did. And Wolfsburg, Germany, that's in the middle of the river. you know. It was like we could do this like you can't park there if the cars float away in the flood. So be it. Nobody's dying. you know. Instead, we got kind of this, which is like, Oh, everyone's gonna come here and sit there. But they don't, you know. So I think, yeah, I think it's gotta be programmed like. yeah. I mean, it's cool. I mean, II think yeah, it'll be super interesting to see how this stuff evolves. I imagine there's gonna be something that goes in. That's a big draw. you know, who knows what it is. It might not even be what we could possibly imagine at this point you never know.

[104:08] Yeah, I mean, we're this right now, is, there's conversation about, how do we make this? Not so much an island? I mean, in my mind this whole, this phase 2 is an island. So that's just an island within an island is the north and south. so I'm here like by the number 4. There. that's like a local road. But how do you drive from the north to the south. That's it. So how do you drive? You gotta drive all the way out. 2. I think so. It's hard to, I mean. So how do you go north, south? You can't. In a car between the local roads. It could be a local road that could be. A local road. Is that a local road?

[105:00] I'm having a hard time on there. It's a weird offset from the frontier intersection that'd be strange to have an offset vehicular intersection like that I know, talking about this as as pedestrian. II don't remember this being particular. I mean, it seems like you would need some way to drive north, south. It seems like the rate. All the rage in Boulder these days is every single outdoor company that exists anywhere on the planet needs to have, even if it's their one and only retail is somehow in boulder. And then all this direct to consumer Instagram stores are somehow, if they have 5, you know retail locations globally, there's one in Boulder, and then every tech company who's made it needs to have some amount of office space in boulder. Is it? Right? It's

[106:04] outrage. It's wild. How consistent that development pattern has been. Yeah. no, it is funny. Can I check in on the time and see how I'm gonna have to leave in about 5 min. I have a my daughter has a school function. Can't believe school stuff is starting again. This is the floodplain map. So you can see this is the whole, the boundary project. So 500 year floodplain is we? We've all built within that. It's not as much of a design constraint, I think. but I but I do wonder about that is in conveyance zone, and and just little splatterings of high hazard. So. And that was right at that park, that floodway option. So that

[107:00] that's why I thought that this would be an opportunity, just because it is a little harder to get buildings per minute in this year. and and the conveyance zone areas. So you know what buildings can can go there and what are the constraints on them? And do they need to be kind of like the harvest house up on a you know, 10 foot length tons of parking underneath infinite parking plants. So I you know, I think, what the industrial it's in there now is raised a little bit, but it's like loading dock height, which is kind of perfect for the use that are in there, although now none of them are warehouses anymore. And except for the shipping center, Scarpa and Lasiva, those are both national distribution centers. Yeah, and off and office sort of mixed. Yeah.

[108:08] that's what we need. We need to bring back sneer, grab in this neighborhood's giant. you know. Ski, snowboard center swap, swap market. So yeah. So in the last meeting the takeaway. Was that The the. I thought. I think this is the planning board. I don't know where the art came from, suggested that the priority for him and the rest of their board is to add as much access. Oh, no sorry Parks and access to parks as possible, especially giving this that this is going to be largely a newly developed residential area. Lots of families, potentially. And if we can't provide park access within Boulder Junction. Let's ensure that we're providing good access to nearby parks like East Mapleton, Howard, Houston, etc. Consider Grease Creek as an opportunity to bring additional pocket parks to the area.

[109:07] So I thought that was you know, we also have to look at this realistically like, maybe we're not going to get that that image of you know a park or this there, you know, we need. But we need to give equal opportunities to adjacent parks and so forth. And then that. So that was the flip playing thing so myopic because of their particular, you know, organization or affiliation like spit. Just 100 like park centric or transportation centric, or and then there's not a lot of it's too early to talk about design. So I'm just like

[110:07] sort of moves. You can at least comment on how that ends up becoming sticks and bricks, if you, you know, like the the the opportunities and the casualties of of efforts like this. Planning. Although I think with form based code, the idea is that somewhat doesn't skip that step, but it makes that process easier and faster. But II think you guys did bring up some like you know, one good suggestion about about the material, and how that that can dictate and preserve character. And how do we? How do we maintain? How do we differentiate this and keep it funky? And I think that can be done with a lot through scale and materiality.

[111:00] and then, and and maybe less so with kind of the forced to sayos and open spaces. I think those in this type of development that is so diverse. Maybe that needs to happen a little more organically and needs to be less. I I'm thinking you got me thinking about Portland, but I was just in Seattle 2 weeks ago, and I was. We spent all of our time in Fremont, which is kind of north of the lake and then west of the University campus, and that is like a total example of this right here. Where did you see the Fremont Troll. My friend built that Steven Danes. So it's under the over the overpass. There's a giant troll. It was like where people were shooting up heroin and stuff. So he went in with students from Uw. And they built a giant troll, and he's like eating a Volkswagen. But and now it's become like a place where people go. People have weddings. I mean, it's crazy stuff. And this is a long time ago, but it transforms that whole Fremont neighborhood well, in the Fremont has all the boutiques, but then they do have a few of these like larger kind of brewery distillery components, because there was opportunity for that. But I think, as you guys are talking about the pose and the green space back to some earlier comments about the lot size.

[112:22] I think that's spot on like there's a bund because of the topography there. They end up with a bunch of like angular roads, and crossing the grid which ends up with these like cute little flat iron type sites that pretty much 90% of them were like boutiques or ice cream shops, or smoothly. You know something that was like achievable. If you're just gonna like. give your business dream an opportunity. But you're not funded by, you know. Venture capitalism. Yep. yeah. How are those? How are those lots divided to not make funky, you know, Bill, to lotline

[113:02] shapes? Yep. certainly got enough of that on thirtieth right. It's tricky, though, like that new Delhi Curtis Park, Deli, or whatever it's, it's really good, but there's no way to get there. If you don't live above it. There's a parking garage under it off of an alley, and if the idea is you're gonna run and grab a quick cup of coffee and a breakfast sandwich on your way to work. That's a 30 min effort to park it's in one of the buildings that just came online that it's next to like hot works and all that. It's basically thirtieth and Pearl Parkway. And it's on the south, in east side of that intersection. And it's just one of the like tenant spaces at the ground level, where there's, you know, 5 vacancies along that run. but its storefronts thirtieth, where there's no parking.

[114:01] and it's a grab and go Deli. So it's a very interesting, you know. I feel bad for them. Yeah, marine. That's what I was saying about 20 Ninth street malls that because there's no time limit on that parking. Did. Were you here for that? Oh, yeah, like, run into a store, because you know, somebody blue lemon is parked in that coolest street. Like as I get to the intersection, I always want to drive down. And I'm like there's definitely no fucking parking. Yeah. and you can't access the garage from that side. So basically, if you go down that road which is the cutest little road in the development. Yeah, it's a one time like you. Just you fingers crossed, but there's no like, oh, you know what I'm gonna bail out and like that would have been smart if they had a way to access underground from that side of the development. Yeah, I mean, I think there are a lot of times where some of those, some of those places where you just need to run in quickly. Like, I had a site visit on Eleventh and Pearl today. And I just needed to like. Run in quickly, and it just your fingers crossed. If I didn't have parking then I was just tomorrow, you know, it's like trip downtown, or whatever like.

[115:12] It's hard. I think that like, I said, parking is I'm mixed on that. But I think you guys brought up another good point. That I wrote down in here about the rhi, the rhino transit oriented development that's happening. And and the huge numbers of huge amount of parking required for that. and I can't remember if they built that into phase one, or I think they built some in, but I can't remember. Well, it's odd cause like I used to live down at where Table Mesa become South Boulder Road there, and that there's that big Rtd transit station like the parking ride is right there. But I mean, it's it's actually pretty full often, and it's nice cause it's like that. That's that direct express bus to the airport. They've got the direct stuff, for, you know, sport events and Union Station and things, but they can support it because people are actually like they can drive there and part and leave it for a week. It's a reasonable, you know. It's like it's I'm confused how we have a transit center

[116:20] that was then like, What are you then? What do you do like? Cause there's no, there's no like art. It's not like that's the arterial, and there's gonna be local local L lines, or whatever they're called. What do we call them here? Light rails? They weren't gonna have like a local distribution network associated eventually. Right? So it's like you funnel all these people to the transit village. And if it really is going to become this awesome way to reduce highway 36 or traffic and 93 traffic. And like, really connect a lot of boulder to these destinations. People are gonna have to drive there. Yeah. Well, I mean that's what the

[117:02] that's why they do think. And I'm joking about the driverless cars. But that is the goal. You know the step. How do you get, you know, from the transit hub to your door. your office, or whatever. and you know that's the hope that they'll have like taxis. Come back, but they'll be more efficient in. you know. You have 10 people in one taxi. sure. But well, I know it's 6. So run. But I just wanted to give you quick next steps like I said, there's a planning board hearing august 22 we'll give our feedback to the the joint board. and hopefully we can get some of that in into the planning board packet. And then the City Council, hearing for adopt plan adoption is September twenty-first.

[118:03] Alright! Colony has her hand up again. You can speak more articulate to that. You're muted. You articulated that fine. I just wanted to make sure that we spent a little time summarizing recommendation or a minute. So if we could do that, if now is the appropriate time, if there's a kind of open discussion is over. Yeah, I think it's I think it's great. I just have one more just a comment about the lot just thinking about the lot size. You know. We talked about that like, how could you incentivize property owners to subdivide? you know it could be that the plant. The the process to do that is completely truncated. So like by right, they could do it. Come in with a plait. It's approved, done. Maybe there's some financial incentive. But you, you know there's got to be some incentive. People aren't gonna do it, just.

[119:08] you know, on their own. or that you just can't redevelop your property unless it's, you know. Here's the maximum lot sizes. We're so used to seeing minimum lot sizes in the zoning code. But yeah, that's true. You could do something like that. Alright, thanks, guys, this is awesome bye. And I would suggest you on the recommendation says, you guys are summarizing these is, maybe you don't have to focus so much on the exact solution like a platform versus the division. But capturing that, you wanna see smaller development area block size and things like that. I, exactly. There's a whole implementation stage through this process that gets into whether it's form based code or development code revisions that will really help take those big ideas and get it into the regulation.

[120:03] Yeah, I mean, I think, we had. just in summary. We had a good conversation about the commercial nodes, and and you know, strategies for keeping sort of the character of of these commercial nodes that are already in there with some focus on connection to this. These transportation notes, which are on the other side of the train train tracks and some of the feedback that I got on. You know, there needs to potentially be some type of a draw in order to to keep these commercial notes, successful? A cultural piece like a children's museum, or So something of a theater, something of that nature. but also in order to to. you know, for jumping around to the pose into the design character. I think the design character is also going to inform this. You know the success of these commercial notes to with with

[121:13] scale and massing density like a need for higher density. Lots that are smaller lots, but are in shapes. It can be accommodate not in a super regular building type. In in the hopes that we can do. You know 0 lotline type type buildings. and that maybe the the the landscape design, the corridors and the paceos needs to be a little more organic around the development and the the the use types in the in industry and building types that are going to be and the lot division that are going to be implemented

[122:01] and also bringing in some of the character from the east side of of Foothills Parkway, And then, you know, talking about the success of the nodes and the parks area areas. Some suggestions were that the the parks need to be programmed in order for them to be more use and access. Some programming would be like an art gallery walk, zone, or pop up bar, or like a ray back art gallery, food, truck. combo, but some potential spaces for that could be along Goose Creek as well as that, maybe south area by Senitis And then talking about how you know different strategies for for keeping this area industrial and funky. You know, we have a lot of discussion about, you know. not having this turn into Pearl Street or 20 Ninth Street, and we don't need another big retailer

[123:08] in here. It needs to be more it. It just needs to be different. And we talked. We compared did a lot of comparison to Portland. Rhino. east of Vermont, Washington. Fremont, Washington. Yeah. Fremont Seattle. Oh, yeah. And And then I like the comment about the How does how did create like a freeze at the mid gentrification and threshold of going from funky, but but new and and invigorated, but also not

[124:01] just unaccessible, and expensive and characterless characteristics. Yes. rusted development. That's what they call that right? and colanda. I can type up a little summary, too. So if that if that's helpful, like, Todd does, and I'll send my summary, or we're talking. We. I believe that Amanda is actually typing as your as you're reading this out for the summary. Let me ask you, did any? Did any of the discussion grow legs in your minds the part about like we're we haven't really given phase one a fair shake to actually demonstrate if it's capable of

[125:00] supporting the activity that was was intended. And then it does feel like there's a a big moment happening here with a lot of new housing coming online in the next 6 months. a lot of offices requiring, you know. in person employment, and that, you know, there, could II guess I would hate to kind of. It would be a bummer to see phase 2 reacting to phase one before it's had a chance to actually blossom. Yeah. And I think that that that some of their working groups do involve realtors. And you know, investment people, you know. So it's if they're they are looking at lessons learned, or also just the successes of of phase one through so many different avenues and perspectives

[126:02] that you know, if you, if you hear about that retail, it's like the the prices of the retail are not They're still in line and keeping with some of the downtown rents and spaces same with the housing. So I mean, I think, that they're anticipating these spaces to be filled, and this to become a little more vibrant. Naturally even, I think, without the the transportation node. But II know they that has been a big question of mine. I'm like, well, let's just build phase 2 based on lessons learned on phase, one like. But I think that these are. These are different in the sense that phase one is a little is more urban and high density. And a lot of housing, and maybe higher end housing and higher end retail. And then phase 2 is going to be little more accessible housing family oriented and industry and

[127:09] and II think it's just it's different. It's just different from phase one that that we can gain some a lot of insight from phase one, of course, and giving it more time, I think, to to shake out but at the same time it this is its own. It's own animal, I mean. physically severed by train tracks. but II agree, I think. II think III do speak harshly on phase one. So I appreciate Rory, your positive perspective. I just remember driving through there in the heart of the pandemic being like, Oh, that is a bummer like like this thing just opened.

[128:03] Yeah. Yep. And yeah. And who knew Pand the pandemic would happen so well. I think that that I think that that was really helpful, and I'm excited. We had such a good conversation. Discussion on that. And Mel, I don't know if you had any. Are. Are we varying? Oh, too far from the planners. Direction you're you're on mute. You're muted lower left. That looks good. No.

[129:00] Oh, thank you. I couldn't find the mute button underneath your screen. II have one piece of information for you all to keep. You met you. Reference the east side of foothills that was recently conceptualized as East boulder subcommunity plan. So there's a formalized adopted plan for that. And that's where the use types came from. These types that you see showing up here were originally developed at least community plan. So there is a plan. If you want to look and see what's intended, that neighborhoods that you were talking about, that's right across. It's pretty cool, and that's the one that II roll a concern about it becoming gentrified through the process. And so the city did engage in a planning process, or trying to establish social equity

[130:02] on what exists. So they've got Kathleen kennedy has been working on that they've got a plan. a plan outline that was prototyped out at that site which I think could be very applicable. If there are areas in this. See that, too. That would benefit from. Let's document better with the finder to call what's what's here before we superimpose something. So that's just Fyi. You may not have been familiar with that. I think the input that I think would be really useful from the board at some point is on the use types? Are they appropriate? Do you think that they might, you know, be the right ones to propose? It sounds like we've gotten the slides you sold from Staff at the last planning board.

[131:00] Input from the project. And it sounds like we'll be seeing they're gonna be looking for approval plan in the next week or so. So these types are they the right ones? I hmm. I'm not sure. And I love, and I I've been pressing it. And I hope you guys keep pressing. What are the lessons learned. you know, from the form based code? Because right now, it's like, well, we're gonna put a form based code on this as well. but I'm not sure that we know the implications of it to the degree that we should, before we go and apply a form base code onto this section as well. So I encourage you to keep pressing. Let's let's see what the lessons are, and let's try it. Get kind of a head of of jumping into reuse, of of the form based code. Before we really know what it's potential or liabilities are. So I really really appreciate your concern

[132:03] about about those. Thank you very much. Oh, I have 1 one last thing, and it's I and my backup will not be able to attend the September meeting. I put it out to the whole planning board, and nobody stepped up. So you might not get a planning board. He is on it your next meeting. But I'm gonna keep trying. I'll ask again. Just apply heads up. I'm out for the September meeting as well. Guys, I'm gonna be traveling. Thank you for letting us know both of you. Yeah. And Rory, I think. what what am I saying about the form base code. You you did that experience as an architect better than than I could, but that might be good feedback to

[133:02] well, we just when they came down. Were you on the call when we were providing feedback to the form base code revisions that they wanted to pass this way? And it was like Whoa! Whoa! Like the You cannot code buildings like you cannot say this is going to be this height within this thing with this color like fast forward 1,000 years. We're gonna look like we live in a computer chip. just regulating lines going all over the place like this insanity. But I think they heard us loud and clear. cause I'm pretty sure that kinda in that capacity died on the vine for adopting it for the whole like citywide type. Yeah. Well, th, those were all like the amendment proposals to the form based code where they were trying to like get so prescriptive. And what you needed to do. It was like, cool. Well, I guess we don't need architects anymore, because we just follow the form based code.

[134:05] right? Right? But then. if everybody's following the rules and is following the prescription, then they don't have to spend as much time in front of planning board, and I think that was sort of the hope. But I agree. I mean, I think, that I think we're looking at a site that needs to. I mean, I Ml, I'm really do want to take a look more that yeast. The East East Neighborhood development is that where East boulder subcommunity plan east boulder subcommunity plan, I think it would. I think this this Boulder Junction 2 is a overlay of Boulder Junction one. And and this subcommunity plan. So II think that, you know, while we look at lessons learned, I think we just need to look at both. I think that was that's huge. That's huge insight.

[135:03] And in terms of form based code. I can't imagine they're going to have form based code in this. Be sub subcommunity, or maybe but you know 20 or shaking your head like, yes, they might. Yeah. So they are slated to do form based code in activity center areas. Within these folder. There is a consultant coming on board to review what would be some changes or specifications that might be regionally specific. And so I think that the conversation around form based code and some of those regulations appropriateness. That's definitely another design. cumbersome, and that will likely be coming through Dab at that point. But because it's where this conversation was very kind of topical about the area plan, more global planning. The form based code discussion is very specific. And so you're gonna have to spend.

[136:10] II think that that conversation is gonna be one of bringing everybody up to speed of what it is. Now. the code requirements what we've seen and then having to. So you gotta kind of bring everyone up to speed. They're familiar with it. So multiple conversations where you can then start to discuss what those design proposals are. Some of those types of things. So it's another process. I believe at that period of time that you'll we've already heard like they may do another working group. I don't know it. Just this pilot. Maybe you know the thing that goes to that project, too. So we just have to kind of wait and see how that that may shake out. But yes, for each folder in those activity areas and for Boulder Junction to the area, also for that area in insight or input now, as to if they're going to use a template.

[137:12] you know, which template. Maybe that's the character of the direction of architecture that they're trying to achieve in Boulder Junction to is. you know. Maybe it's not Boulder Junction one. Maybe it's maybe it's something else. All the connections in there and so there is kind of a level of specificity that's reasonably specific. And then there's the building design section. So I imagine that you guys will be seeing that. And I know planning board will definitely be seeing that

[138:00] come through again. So that is what is on the flight right now. But we did realize that kind of a it's a larger conversation than one night. I think, performed by Code for. and Christopher made that pretty clear, too, that he will be asking for our insight. But that's down the road. I think it has to be structured right to be productive, like we could be going over things in it. You want to cover some ground on that one. Yeah. So can I ask sorry for Brendan? Because we have the beginning of a summary. And then a bit of a little conversation kind of tacked into the summary for Amanda. On my sake, if you don't mind sending us a copy of what you your notes from this I think that that would be helpful. Is that correct, Amanda cause? Then we can then have that forwarded over to our planning stuff. Cause I, as you noted in that the calendar, those projects moving pretty swiftly to planning boarding

[139:06] city council. I'll pull. I'll pull them together right now. I mean, they're just kind of bullet points, but and I'll put it in our list of topics. That would be great. Yeah. Yeah, I think that would be helpful. Thank you. Thanks. So hey? We didn't ask if there's any public participation around this matter, but it doesn't look like it. There's anybody else. There's no one on the call. all right, so we'll conclude that board matters on Boulder Junction 2, and move on to I don't think we have any other board matters. Colony. Can I bring up my okay? There's been just a lot of heat and conversation around this Harvest House student housing.

[140:01] review that we did. And the planning board. Ii missed the review last night, but hopefully, you guys are closer to resolution and I was sent an email with the packet before the planning board, when I'm sure it's all. It's all on the planning board website now, but where they join the changes and improvements they had made to the building, and I really wanted to bring the dab back in, back into it, just because it's like, you know, I was geeking out over a little bit, and also happy that they made some changes. But we cannot. You know I didn't want it to be a re review. I just wanted to be like a Oh, they! This is where they started, and this is where they are. So Colony suggested, and we believe we cannot, we cannot do that. So colony suggested that maybe we do a you know, we can use this kind of like a lessons learned, and also a you know, project history and where where it was and where it turned out, and how our conversation influenced

[141:10] influence, like where the project turned out. And we we used to use the retreats for stuff like that. the one for canyon to the Canyon hotels kind of before and after. Yeah. So I think that II would like to propose meeting. And I think it's it would be like 2 meetings from now. Once it's out of public. Yeah, I think we're gonna it would have to be a meeting where we don't have another project review. So possibly November cause. I got word that you might have September and October product review but it should give you plenty of time to prep, because it's going to be?

[142:02] Yeah. are we doing retreats anymore, even like virtually or no. Is that just another thing we haven't. But we can talk about that also. Once we go through this portion. So Brendan as far as doing that, like a review of a path project. And now, though I think it once it gets through the call up period. That Council do I believe that the millennium harvest has still has to do that? But I think you were when we were talking. You were saying this. Seeing if you can find another staff member that would be interested in doing this comparison between what you guys saw what went to planning board on the first round after dab review, and then a second round of kind of how evolved over time. Yo, yeah, I mean, I just It felt like it. You know, I was as a representative before I was shouldering heavy conversation and a lot of heavyweight, and I just

[143:07] was hoping to make it more of a of a board discussion rather than just you know, like there was a public comment in the beginning of our last meeting, and it my words got a little bit misconstrued and twisted, and it's just like, you know I don't. I don't want the board thing. That's actually what I said in the Planning board meeting. So I just it. It's just very interesting project, and I think it'd be really cool to if if planning staff wanted to be a part of that. Is that what you're saying? Or if just you want me to leave to be a board led kind of review that wants to help you kind of review the project. Either put together the presentation or kind of go through and look at the evolution of the design. This, I mean, we only have 3 numbers tonight. So maybe tonight's not the best night to see who wants to dig into something like this. Maybe next month is a good time. But, Rory, you're here tonight so we could get an answer.

[144:15] I mean, I would love to see this debrief, I guess to me it's very comparable to what we did for the canyon project, and but that was Staff led. Yes. we're we're right now, not staff, to do this. We don't. We just don't have the manpower right now to do another project evaluation you know, maybe after the New Year. But if it's something that that the Board wants to lead and the design, we can definitely try to get you the resources on that end and provide you things like you know, links to map or packets, and you can do the evaluation. Let me ask a question, and then I gotta boogie here at 6 30 I saw that amount mentioned that there was that they they had a motion to approve.

[145:05] I guess. Is there? What does that mean? It's done with planning work that just the particular component of it, or I guess when in the lifespan of this proposal, is the appropriate time to actually reflect on it like after? Is it at a point where it's appropriate, after all, of the any hearings that may be associated with it. So if it's subject to call up after this. it's finished, and it doesn't. If it's not called up by council. That's an appropriate time to do. Kind of a design retrospective on what the moves were. But right now mid kind of mid review when it's actually in the hands of another board or city council, is not the time for Dab to look at and do a review.

[146:07] 5 years us go from not having a whole lot to talk about, not a lot of projects, and then trying to encourage more projects. and then really starting to encourage planning board and like, how can we actually cause we felt so separate for a long time, or like our meeting minutes just went into the ether. and we didn't even know if anyone looked at them. And now we're we've got, you know, the latest sounds are much more active, and there's kind of a lot more. but I hate to use the word. But synergy between the boards. and it's almost like everything that the board that I first started on was trying to prod as far as process and engagement from dab and like e effect like the effect that dab or effect dab can have. This does seem like a really good example project. I just I just would love to see it after it gets finished, you know. Spit out of the process just to make sure that we're actually reflecting on it

[147:06] in its kind of end form. Well, maybe we can talk about next week. Who wants to help me pull this together, because it'd be nice, you know, if, like you or Matthew or Todd, or somebody that was at that Canyon Review, and sort of saw how that was formatted and put together. Then. I mean, Shears Atkins really did a pretty good graphic presentation of before and after. And so their materials are. That's what I was just gonna talk about. I mean, that's probably enough, honestly. And then maybe we just wait until they actually clear their last gauntlet, or whatever. But I think, cause. What was trickier about Canyon is that they just pulled so many quick ones on the city where they like submitted. Propose like, here's our facade materials and the color. And then it was like what got built did not look like that. So that was a little bit trickier to piece together, because nobody wanted to communicate that professionally, you know, because nobody was trying to document that they were doing that.

[148:03] So it was a complete kind of detective retro effort versus it sounds like shears. Atkins is like encouraging everybody to see what they've done, and look how far we've come, or whatever you know. Look at the feedback we receive and what we've done that's that'll make it easy. And can you have 10 years of development site review approvals that either expired, and we're redone and expired. And so I'm happy to share that with you, because there is you know, kind of a photo simulation overlay. But here does not have to be that detail, because we did that in response to there was quite a bit of community questions on. Why does it look the way it does? Does it match the photo? And you know, so there was some investigative work that needed to be done to, and so that took a little bit of effort. But I don't think you need to have something that the Board at that time, like all of the members were like.

[149:02] Alright, Kylan, show us how the hell that building got built. It was kept going to planning board and planning board was like, we are not going to give you your pric parking reduction, and I think they're asking for height. Unless you make some changes on the massing and design of this building, and they kept coming back with the same same stuff. and it wasn't until they the planning board, was like, well, we you know, we could reject this and then they came, and then they came back with a good changes. So I think that that's part of the conversation, too, of you know, planning board really put like the benefit of them, really pushing for good design, and how that turned out. And us being able to. You know this is a kind of a good recap with Ml's earlier comments like us, being able to have a good support role for them, right to make sure that when they recommend stuff to us, and we do spend the time and energy to review it, that then it actually they can be the teeth of Dad, because we don't have any teeth

[150:15] right? And they were II was. I appreciated that for sure. Cool. I'm excited to see it. Alright, guys, I'll see you all in October. Take care. thank you, Brendan, for doing the presentation on that Boulder Junction biggest strength these presentations. But interest super interested in all of it.