April 13, 2026 — Police Oversight Panel Regular Meeting

Transcript

Captions from City of Boulder YouTube recording.

[0:00] Good to go. >> All right. Welcome everybody. We are officially calling this meeting to order. Uh we will start as always with our land acknowledgement. We acknowledge the Arapjo Ute and Cheyenne tribes, the traditional custodians of the land on which the police oversight panel and Boulder Police Department operate and pay our respects to their elders past and present. Um, we want to welcome everyone to the meeting. Um, any members of the public that we have with us. Uh, all of our panel members and our city staff, of course. Um, a couple, uh, reminders. We're hoping everyone can keep their cameras on as much as possible. Um, especially when voting. Um, and some heads up for members of the public or the media who may join us tonight. Um, please use the Q&A if you'd like during the meeting. Uh, we'll answer small questions in the Q&A chat. Um, but if

[1:01] you have bigger questions, please, uh, save them for public comment or you can send them our way anytime. Um, you can reach us by emailing the panel at police oversight panel at bouldercol.gov anytime. That will go to the full panel. Um, you can also find us online at bouldercol.govservices/ GV/services police oversight. Um, all of our meetings, including this one, are available online. You can find those on our website. Um, and with that, we will hand it over to uh SA for roll call or Sherry. I'm not sure who's doing roll call today. >> I usually do it. >> Go ahead. >> Okay. Lizzy present. Um, Kristen, I don't see her. Uh, Curtis, uh, he let us know that he won't be able to make it. Bill >> present. >> Alan also informed us that he would not

[2:00] be able to make it. Alex >> here. >> Uh, JD >> present. >> Um, Jennifer >> present. >> Evan >> present. Uh Larry >> present >> and Salad here. All right. Um with that we will move on to a quick preview of the agenda. Um and I will just say for the group our goal tonight is to stay on the agenda and on time. So that is my goal tonight. I will do my best to keep us kind of on our timeline. And just a note for everyone that um that may mean we need to cut discussion short or you might hear kind of reminders from Soladader um as we move through some of these topics. So just a heads up about that. Uh let me share this. All right.

[3:05] Um so on the agenda today we have um we'll talk about the minutes if anyone would like to discuss last month's minutes. Then we will go into our panel updates. We'll do a training update. Then move into our co-chair election. Uh we'll talk about our Q1 meeting with the chief. Have a little debrief. Then we'll talk about the 2025 annual report and wrap up the segment with public comment practices, a little discussion of um some potential updates there. Um then we'll move into public 30. Um we will then go to a community outreach and engagement update uh and close with the IPM report, our close session if needed, and then our regular business. We'll go through case assignments if needed. Um, so I'll open it up to the group. Do we have any uh

[4:01] requests or changes to the agenda? Or if not, would anyone like to motion to approve? And I will actually briefly say we had talked about sharing the uh new norms that we've come up with um in our recent workshops, but I think we forgot to add it to the agenda. So, we could save that for next month or we could try to add that as a brief item in the panel update section. Anyone have strong feelings? Solidad, what do you think? >> Um, I am tempted to add that to next month's agenda just because we have uh elections. So, that might take us a little bit. I just uh want to stay on track with timing. Um, >> I'm good with that. If anyone else would like to advocate, please do. >> Let's push it off to the next meeting.

[5:01] >> Great. All right. Um, with that, do we have a motion to approve the agenda? >> This is Larry. I so move. >> I can second. >> Great. Uh, all in favor of approving the agenda. >> In favor? Opposed? All right, agenda is approved. Um, next we'll go into a discussion of last month's minutes. Um, if anyone has changes or adjustments they'd like to make, we can hear those now. Or if there are no adjustments, we can hear a motion to approve last month's minutes. Um, sorry Lucy, just to add that Kristen joined us, so to add her presence to the room. >> Thank you. >> And I I move to approve the minutes. >> I second.

[6:01] >> All right. All in favor of approving the minutes for last month? >> In favor. >> All right. Anyone opposed? JD, was that in favor or opposed? I I couldn't tell if that was a late in favor hand. >> In favor. >> Okay, great. Just for the record, did we have anyone opposed? Another show of hands. Okay, perfect. Thank you. All right. Uh we will move into panel updates. Uh new panel member training update. I think this is probably Sherry. Um yeah, I want to say as as most people on this meeting know, we had a lot of training in the last month. So almost all panel new panel members were able to obtain all of their mandatory training. Um and the one person who still needs a a session, we have that scheduled and on the calendar. So that um that

[7:01] requirement has been almost completely met and um I'm I'm excited to um have enjoyed the time to get to know some of the new panel members and I would just like to share that they have been very um thoughtful with their questions and engaged and I'm looking forward to working with all of you and also I know That that was a lot of training. So if people have uh thoughts or suggestions, feel free to either, you know, to share to share those with me now that it's fresh in our mind. >> Great. That is great to hear. Thank you to all our panel members for making yourselves available. I know that was a lot. So appreciate it. That's great that you guys are all all well on your way being done. All right. Any other comments, feedback, anything anyone wants to share right now?

[8:01] All right, we will move ahead into our co-chair election. I'll turn it over to Selv. Um yes, thank you everyone. So um as requested at our last meeting, we we were hoping to get interest in uh becoming a co-chair emailed to me um or communicated to me in some shape or form and I only had two people um jumping into the task and um so that would be Lizzie and Bill. Uh, so what I'm proposing today is that we hear like a I'm going to put you on the spot like a two minute at the most spill uh on why you want to be the next co-chairs and um and then we can move with the process of nominating uh or not

[9:00] and voting. Um does that sound like a good plan? Yep. Cool. So Lucy, you are unmuted, so go for it. >> All right. Thank you, Solidad. Um I did not prepare anything, but I will just say um you know, having been the chair for the last year with Soladad. It was it's been a a really interesting experience. I'm really glad I got to jump in with someone like Soladad who had done the job already. Um which was incredibly helpful. But I think um the job of co-chair is is both kind of big in terms of there's a lot of juggling and things that you're sort of taking on small tasks, facilitating, supporting, joining meetings, but also small in that um really all we're here to do is kind of create structure for and support for the rest of the panel to be heard and succeed and fulfill their role. Um so I'd love to keep getting

[10:00] able to do that. I think um it's I like to sort of facilitate and and um help new members and try to keep things moving in a positive direction. It's it's really interesting to kind of sit in this position between the panel and the city and um try to build relationships and and um help the panel meet its goals. So um you know, running out of post here. I'm happy to serve the panel for another year if that's what the panel would like. Um, and really excited to continue ahead with Bill, um, if that's where we end up. Um, and I'll just say in my last couple seconds here, thank you so much to Solidad. You've been an incredible co-chair. Um, I've learned everything about being a co-chair from you and you've supported the panel so much. So, I appreciate everything you've done for all of us. Thanks. And I'll just start there. Just also thank Soladad for her patience and for

[11:00] her willingness and watching you maneuver through the things that you've gone over the last year has been really helpful in how to co-chair and I appreciate what you've brought um to our panel. And like Lizzie, I think it's important to continue to build the relationships, especially as we go through this review time that we're in. I think that there's um some mending that we have to do between Sherry and the city and the police department. And I think that that's something that um we can't ignore and we have to figure out how to work through that. So we don't continue to think about approaches as being done to us rather than done with us. And I think that's a really important approach. And um I've also facilitated a lot and know that in that role it's not so much about

[12:00] what I have to say. It's more about making sure that the panel members voices are heard and that we um strike a real balance um of voice so that everybody feels a sense of inclusion and that the things that are important to you are part of our agenda. and that we just continue to um build the panel in a positive way so that we truly can represent the voices of the community that we all represent. I'll just stop there. >> Thanks Soladan. >> Okay, thank you everyone. So um our ordinance and bylaws don't have a specific process for this process. So, um Chris, please correct me when needed. Um >> great. >> Okay. Uh so what I I want to propose is

[13:01] to uh nominate Bill and Lizzy to be the next co-chairs. Um and then um I will hope that a panel member will move for this election to move forward and then we can all vote in confirming both of them since we don't h have to choose amongst other people. Is that okay Chris? >> That that sounds great. I I would just say like if if if uh somebody can make a motion uh that um Lizzie and Bill be the next co-chairs and then someone second it and then a vote can happen and then the record will be very clear. >> I'd like to make a motion that Lizzie and Bill become the next co-chairs. >> I will second that motion. >> Excellent. So everyone in favor, please vote >> in favor. >> Thank you, Alex. Okay. unanimously. So, anyone against just in case.

[14:00] Awesome. Okay, so we have new coaches. Welcome, Bill. Welcome, Lizzy. Um, so happy to pass the torch at this point. Uh, and again, um, just want to say, um, how grateful I am. I couldn't have a best partner, Lucy, in this last year. I um I love that we're getting into this mode of having new and experienced co-chair joining it. It really helps sustaining the work of the panel. So wishing you the best and of course I'm here to support. So congratulations to both of you and uh yeah well tapping um okay. Oh, this now we can discuss whatever. Larry, >> solid, I just want to thank you for the courage that you've shown on behalf of the panel. It's really appreciated.

[15:00] Thank you. >> Um, yes, this is very this is very interesting. I just realized the dad I think you might be the first this might be the first time that we have a former co-chair on the panel. So that's like we have an extra well of experience um that I don't think the panel has had before. >> Very cool. >> So I think the panel is extra fortunate as we're moving forward. All right. Well, thank you all for the vote of confidence. Bill and I will serve you well. Um or do our best at least, and we will try to keep this on time. Uh with that, I think Solidad and I were planning to facilitate this meeting as usual, but I hadn't thought about whether we would want to turn it over directly. Bill, do

[16:00] you have a preference? Would you like to? >> I would love to have Solidad complete one more meeting. and then I'll take over because then we'll do agenda setting and all that together for the next meeting. >> Perfect. Okay. >> Is that all right, Solid? >> Okay, >> perfect. You and I can do some onboarding, Bill. >> Yeah. >> All right. Oh, go ahead, Sherry. >> She has her hand up. Um, I just realized that um um community engagement um is that something that >> I was going to talk about that during community >> Oh, okay. >> So, y'all start thinking about who wants to chair the community engagement group. It's what's coming. So, little spoiler alert. >> Perfect. And um I guess Bill and Lizzy, we should also plan to figure out in the you know what what cadence for co-chairs uh monitor meetings and and what the

[17:01] scheduling of that looks like, >> but everyone here does not need to. >> No, we can do that offline. >> Yeah. Yeah. Just heads up and it's something that we should do. All right. More to come on all of those details. Um, for now we can move ahead into our debrief of our Q1 meeting with the chief. Typically, I can try to facilitate this um, unless anyone else was planning to, but typically we just like to have a little space after these quarterly meetings to discuss anything, any feedback, any thoughts, any kind of follow-up items we want to pursue. Um, so I'll open up the floor. >> Well, I think it was good to talk about the complaint um, and

[18:02] process that through because I know that was something that Solidad was holding on to for a while. And so hopefully it allowed that to at least be processed. and um hopefully we can create an environment where no one has to go through that again. That is one of the things that I think is important moving forward about how do we have a conversation first before we go straight to um something at that level because I know that was really hard and my only um caution was of course we went over the agenda so we didn't get the presentation that the PSU was going to bring to us and so but I think you've addressed that Lizzie with just staying on track and and I think that conversation really needed to happen. So, I thought it was good. >> Thanks, Bill. Go ahead, Lawrence. >> Um, my one observation

[19:01] was that the chief highlighted that a lot of people left the police department um saying it was because of the panel. And I I question whether whether the validity of those statements in the sense that these were people who are leaving the department talking to the chief going to perhaps another law enforcement needing a recommendation um and the chief was doing their exit interviews. Um, in that situation, would would someone say that the reason was because someone in the police department wasn't treating me well, or was it easier to say, um, the panel oversight? In other words,

[20:00] it was an easy out. um at least in my experience um you don't have the chief executive officer of an organization conducting an exit interview. You usually have someone from HR who conducts that um to try and get at it. Um I would be really concerned if we were losing police officers because we had oversight in one respect. Um, I guess I would think if someone's leaving because they're afraid of oversight, maybe that's a good thing. All right. On the other, um, I just questioned the validity of that being the reason. Um, I appreciated the chief. I appreciated his cander. Okay. Um, he's got a tough job to do. Um but that really concerned me that

[21:02] the the reason for people leaving was placed on this panel. Uh because I I think the panel does a lot to support the police department over the years. Um but anyway, that was my observation. >> Thanks, Lawrence. Um, I had similar questions about kind of that statement about um, exit interviews and reasons for leaving. Um, and I asked some follow-up questions. Um, and I've gotten some responses from both the chief and Dr. Reinhardt, but don't have much additional data yet. I'm going to work with them a bit more to try to get a little more clarity for the panel. Um, so I'll share that if I'm able. Just getting a sense of scale. How many people have left? how many people mentioned these sorts of things and and how specific was the feedback. Um I'll tell the group it it doesn't sound like there is robust data collection

[22:00] happening. It's more anecdotal. There's not, you know, a data set that we can refer to. Um which is, you know, somewhat common with exit interviews, but I'll find out what I can and share other Oh, go ahead. >> Yeah. Uh yeah, no, I just wanted to add to that uh comment and thank you. Is Larry okay or Lawrence? What do you prefer? Sorry, just you're muted. Okay, so uh thank you for bringing that up. I think um I am curious um when I hear those statements uh they are there are they are concerning so when sharing public my expectation will be that we have data to back that up and we don't um and it's pretty much kind of similar to to the messaging around cases

[23:01] taking so long and that putting on the panel 's shoulders when actually the the timing wasn't dependent on the panel was more in the side of PSU taking a long time in in in their investigation. So um I'm I'm that's concerning in in several ways. One of them being so this kind of blank statements without data behind them. And in the other side, we we have seen the kind of promotion of being so proud of having a police oversight system. So which is it? Are we happy that we have oversight or actually because we have oversight we're losing officers? So um so I do think that we we should expect a little bit more more data when sharing this, especially when shared in public. Um,

[24:00] and I I don't think, you know, that there's real kind of information to back that up. So, agree with Larry in terms of that that being one of the things that is very interesting to hear. So, other comments, thoughts, maybe remaining questions. All right. Well, thanks everyone. That was a a you know, not a standard meeting with the chief by any means. I I agree. I think it was a necessary conversation for us to have. Um but for the next quarterly meeting um typically you know we collect topics beforehand um and kind of come with questions and and sort of work our way through topics

[25:02] of interest to the panel. So anything that comes up in the next couple months as we move ahead to the next quarterly meeting just keep those in mind um and we will plan to address those topics next month or next quarter. Um go ahead Sherry. Did you have your hand up or >> you >> you said exactly what I was going to I was going to say. >> Um although I guess I can so normally I will start we will start talking about it in meetings like reminding people that um you know the meeting with the chief is coming up and in the weekly emails that I generally send I'll I'll share a link where you can ask the questions um or or propose questions or topics that you would like uh the chief to address. If it's something more involved where you actually would like to have um like a member from command staff or someone from a different department come and give some sort of presentation that the earlier the better is is the process to make sure that they can get the staffing to have um that

[26:01] person or department or whomever it is um attend and prepare um some slides or talking points so that their their time is is useful and that the panel gets the the answers and the robust conversation that they're hoping for. >> Thanks, Sher. >> All right, we will move ahead. Um, we are seven minutes ahead of schedule, so well done so far. Um, that'll take us to the 2025 annual report. >> Um, I guess that would be me. Um, the I've I've put in a request and some to Dr. Daniel Reinhardt to try to get the basic information. um the statistics and the data that we are looking for to include in the annual report. Um this year we should be able to have some additional breakdowns into um uh to more granularize the the cases where there are differences between

[27:00] recommendations u given by myself and recommendations given by the panel and whether the the chief agrees with those or not. So, that's some we should be able to to see um in more detail where those disagreements and agreements fall. Um I like I said, I made the request for the for the data and then I've also been um pushing PSU to do some followup on some of their cases to make sure that uh they're they're as finalized as possible for when that data is pulled. But I have not obtained the the data yet. Uh we also received a message um I'm not sure if it went just to co-chairs or if it went to the whole panel um that Curtis is recognizing that he doesn't have the capacity and bandwidth to work on the annual report. So if there is um another I've been calling them the legacy panel members um so not not the new panel members who would like to work on that project with

[28:01] uh JD and myself that would be great. Sherry, I don't know if you need any data support this year because I think it sounded like at the end we sort of got to the point where we thought we had identified city support for that. Um, but if needed, I'm happy to help with that component again since we kind of have some structure set up to make it a little easier this year. But, um, I will leave floor open for someone else to kind of be the main contact. And I I appreciate that. I will I will see what we have internally with the city, but um you're my phone of friend for data purposes. >> Sounds good. Or maybe double-checking. >> Good. And I'll say for the group too, the

[29:00] written portion is pretty brief. We kind of streamlined things drastically last year. Um so this isn't going to be a huge lift. Is that fair to say Sherry? >> Um well I mean I think if if we follow that same model that we did last year um one of the things that we had changed was we made the like case review chart a separate document so that it wasn't 150 or so pages of the annual report. So that was linked instead so that people could access it as they wanted to. But the one of the goals was to make it a more digestible, readable um annual report as opposed to it being overwhelming and and dense with um dense with details while still making PE or still allowing people to access those same details if they if they want to look in it and actually see case by case some of the the decisions and recommendations.

[30:00] But the, you know, the panel can choose what they want the the annual report to look like. Um, every once in a while throughout the year, I'll see an annual report that I'll really like and I'll like dump it into a folder because um I I do want it to be something that that someone can can look at and get a lot of information and not be overwhelmed by just big walls of text. Well, the offer stands. >> Um, what's the time frame? Like when when is stuff done? Um, in past years it was more of a like Q3 type of project um because we were waiting to get a critical mass of of the prior year's cases completed so that we could

[31:00] actually have statistics that um looked at the the bulk of the cases and but at this point we we pretty much have that. So I would say as as soon as I can get information from BPD and even before that we can start uh working on formats and like what the what the narrative is that people want that panel members want the the report to share out to the public for 2025. So nowish nowish to June probably >> I will get back to you. Does that sound like it perfectly overlaps with uh the CU? >> Um, kind of. I I just I need to check on a few things. I can get back with you in about a week. >> Okay, great. >> Sounds like an affirmative to me.

[32:01] >> Just I just don't want to promise and then not be able to deliver. So, um, I will I will try, but I'm going to look at my schedule and then I'll get back to you. >> I I appreciate that thoughtfulness. Capacity is very important. >> All right, with that we can move to our next item. Um, this takes us into our last item, public comment practices. Um, we just wanted to open the floor a bit for a discussion. Um, so far this is just something uh Solidad and I have discussed with Sherry and Chris and Chris brought to our attention. Um, over the past few months we've had um, you know, more members of the public in attendance at our meetings which is um, deeply appreciated. We love having members of the community here. Um, but having a lot more engagement has also

[33:00] just sort of brought up some questions about how we want to handle certain things that we haven't addressed before with like really concrete policy um with things like public comment and comments in the chat and whether we should read them out loud and how we kind of want to handle um all of that input. Um so we wanted to open up a discussion to the panel for getting some procedures in place sort of firmer policies for how we want to handle these things. Um maybe opening it up first to Soladad or Chris or Sherry. Is there anything you all want to share to get us started on this discussion? >> I'm happy to chime in Lizzie and uh good evening panel members. Um so as the panel's attorney um you know I'm thinking about risk and potential pitfalls. Um, so the code actually does not require the panel to um have public comment, but

[34:00] both the practice and the bylaws um have made space for that. And um if a governmental body kind of opens itself up to allowing members of the public to speak, a principle in um uh first amendment law, freedom of speech law, is that um we can't uh prohibit people basically from saying anything. People can say almost whatever they want. um that's called because if we start saying oh we we we're going to stop you from speaking that's called viewpoint discrimination and that's just an easy way to get um sued and uh so the way the bylaw is read right now is um they say and this is 9.13 public comment they say an individual may speak for up to two minutes on any item open for public comment either

[35:00] co-chair may extend an individual's allotted time to speak for up to but not to exceed five minutes. Public comment on non-aggenda items may be limited to either co-chair's uh discretion. And as Lizzie noted, uh in the last few meetings, we've had lots of folks um come give public comment, which has been amazing. There hasn't been any um uh uh no no one's been limited in what they can say. No, no co-chair has said like I'm going to stop you there from saying that because I don't agree with it, which is great. Uh there have been times when some people's time has been extended and um that just makes me a bit uh nervous because you know what happens if somebody wants their time to get extended but let's say the majority of the panel or co-chair doesn't agree with what they're saying. um I could just foresee it happening where um somebody's

[36:00] time would not get extended and then we get into this viewpoint discrimination realm which I just want to avoid and so you know I don't make any sort of policy um but I can just advise that uh that the these bylaws should probably be um tightened up and then with the written comments as well um I understand that it makes the meetings more accessible to some folks who may not feel comfortable speaking, but um I have noticed that sometimes people will put in like multiple comments and they'll just all get read. Um and so their time might be longer and they get kind of a bigger bite at the apple than somebody who just gets two minutes. Um so that's just another thing that I've identified. And then also like what happens if somebody just starts typing kind of a bunch of nonsense in there or something just really offensive. Um that's also problematic. And so I just wanted to put um the idea out there is that you know whatever direction we want to the panel wants to head in. I'm happy

[37:00] to like draft up um an amended provision of these bylaws to bring to the next meeting for review edit rejection. So I could just um offer that up to the panel in terms of what something I can do after listening to this conversation um to to draft up a new provision. and then any amendment of the bylaws per the bylaws requires twothirds of the panel to vote in favor of them for the bylaws to be amended. So that's that's all I would have to say about that. So thank you very much. Thanks Chris. Is that something we could, you know, let's have a discussion um and share some thoughts, but could we motion to have a panel member or two follow up with you to work on some potential draft changes to the bylaws that we could then all come back and vote on next month? Is that an appropriate path or >> that that would be totally totally fine?

[38:00] Another option would be that I could draft something out and then send it to everybody and then everybody could review it and then come to the next meeting prepared to discuss. But um if we don't want to do like an ad hoc committee work between now and then that that is also fine. >> Okay. Um that's that sounds great. Maybe uh if folks have preferences on those options and how far we get with the discussion today, please share that um and we can we can talk about how best to move forward. Um, all right. I'm going to go Lawrence, Sherry, and then Bill. And just for the group, we have plenty of time, but as a heads up, we will take 30, so 15 minutes. >> Go ahead. >> Um, thank you, Vizzy. Um because this panel was set up to be really the eyes and ears of the community, I I feel it's very important for us to get community feedback. Um, and I appreciate the concerns that

[39:01] that Chris has listed, but um, I would hope there'd be a way that we can continue um, to receive that feedback. Um, and and maybe maybe the written feedback is is something that we incorporate um, into um, our website um, so other community people can see it. if if there's a concern about the time, but I mean the essence of this committee is is to represent the community. So I think their feedback is very important. >> Thank you. >> Go to Sherry. >> Oh, um this is this is going to be a Chris question and it is like open meetings laws. Um, if there is a like proposed language that is distribut either if it comes from you, Chris, or

[40:00] if it comes from an ad hoc ad hoc committee, is that something that needs to be included like in the in the packet that I'm just trying to get a process to make sure that we do that correctly? >> I I would advise yes that if if it's going to be a subject at the next meeting, then it should be in the u in the packet. I mean, I don't think the actual draft language needs to be in the packet. Um, but you know, an agenda item for uh talking about the bylaws, particularly public comment, should be um noticed to the public. Um, but any like document that's created would be subject to open records act requests. Hopefully that answers your question, Sherry. >> Okay. So the specific language does not necessarily need to be included but as long as it's a very clear agenda item. >> Yes. I mean eventually the specific language will be public knowledge because we we can't make any sort of

[41:01] decision as to any change in the bylaws as a as a body outside of a meeting. Can't can't do it behind closed doors. So like the the deliberative come together process where the panel actually decides on what if they're going to if they're going to make an amendment to the bylaws that decision has to happen in a public meeting. Um and so you know that that's why you know we can't have like a shared document where everybody can work on it together outside of this meeting because the public doesn't get to see that. But if individuals are looking at a draft and they're making thinking about it and maybe making their own edits without discussing it with other panel members or at least without discussing it with more than one other panel member, then that is entirely proper. >> Okay. Thank you. >> You're welcome. >> All right. I think we had a third hand. Was it you, Bill? Yeah. >> Did you >> go ahead? Um, my experience in public service was that everyone got two

[42:00] minutes and the only way that someone else got more time was if two people showed up, had signed up to speak or were asking to speak and one person gave their two minutes to the other person. It was never arbitrarily just said you can have an extra minute. um for a lot of reasons. It ex gives other people an advantage and um takes away the continuity of the same um amount of time for everybody and there's no obligation for us to get into a dialogue with people in public comment either. That's not what it's designed for. So, it's mostly for us to hear from the public. And then we never read written comments. we would have somebody transcribe the written comments and then give them to us so that we could all read them later or put them in some public realm. Because what I'm going to say is that if we really want to hear from the community, we are allowed to do community engagement outreach and actually sit with the community where we

[43:00] can have dialogue and that's what the community engagement is all about. Our board meetings are more designed just to give public comment. And I mean, we've gone over our agenda on some of our meetings because of people getting more time and then reading all of the comments and before long we've run out, you know, we we're close up to our time for our close session looking at cases and things like that. So that would be my um approach would be to just give everyone the same amount of time. I don't know how that I mean I think it's more codified in what Chris is talking about which is popular practice of boards and commissions and like I said it's I'm all for hearing from the community and that's what our community engagement work is about so we can still set up opportunities for those dialogues for questions for really um deep interaction with the community through going out to to places and inviting them in for that level of conversation. So

[44:02] all it is is community engagement, but for our meetings, I think it's important that we create consistency around what we're doing. >> Thanks, Belle. Um, and I'll share I I totally agree. I think a couple ideas that we had talked about um in our co-chair meeting was just amending the bylaws to say two minutes per person. Um, you know, I know right now the ordinance gives us a little bit more leeway, but agree that it's uncomfortable to be in a position as a co-chair to have to decide who gets more time and who doesn't. Um, so would prefer that to just be kind of fair two minutes across the board. Um, and then we had also talked about we would love to give folks the opportunity to give comment in writing if preferred. You know, there's accessibility issues, there's comfort issues. Um so adding some sort of you know if you don't wish

[45:00] to speak out loud but you want to put your public comment in the chat um putting some providing a path to do that you know maybe requiring that you um don't post it anonymously and having something like a you know about 250word limit which I think would be about two minutes I can't remember if that's what the word count was but something like that. Um I think those could be good options. Um, and let's go to SA. >> Uh, thank you. I have a question for Chris. I'm kind of thinking on on what Bill was saying. Uh, would the will would will there be any restrictions to topics that we are allowed to discuss in a community engagement event? um kind of I'm thinking that sometimes I mean part of the community engagement activities is to share what we do. Um, but I'm I'm wondering since we have had

[46:01] so many concerns about what is discussed where and the panel not being able to meet to speak about certain things um the increase in participation was related to what was happening um with the panel and the interpretation of the of the bylaws and I mean the ordinance and the changes that we're doing. So would there be any restriction as to what can be discussed in those meetings? Thank you for the question, Solidad. Um there are restrictions on what panel members can speak about at community engagement meetings just like looking at you know the confidentiality uh you know just to start there. um not not and that would exist outside of just community engagement. Um you know there are just certain confidential matters that the panel staff are not allowed to speak

[47:00] about with um people who don't have either a right or and or a need need to know. Um but then you know assuming that that's not you know really what you're asking about um the the code does talk about the community engagement function of the police oversight panel and um so I I I won't I I wouldn't say that that limits what you can say. I I would say that um it would be important to structure community engagement activities of the panel so that um we can point back to the ordinance and say this is what we're doing here at this community engagement function. Not necessarily specific things that panel members are talking about because there's definitely room for disagreement and so everybody doesn't have to always say the the same thing. Um, so I I'm hesitant to say that um the

[48:01] panel would be panel members would be limited on what they could say at community engagement um proceedings other than confidentiality. Um and then there's also, you know, the code of conduct. uh you uh but as long as the community engagement um events are are planned um and you know working collaboratively with the monitor then I'm not overly concerned about like what um panel members are saying at those events because I would trust everyone to be you know professional and and um uh good representatives of the city of Boulder. Hopefully that answers your question, Solid Dad. >> Well, in the events that we've had, there wasn't anything confidential or planned or anything in terms of panel business. It was just answering people's questions and wherever they came in with

[49:01] their questions, we just talked about it. So, I think we're um pretty solid in what you said, Chris, where wasn't anything confidential or any panel business that's been talked about. It just gives the community an opportunity to just come in and have a more free flowing conversation with us because that's what it's all about. Of course, we've talked about already to make sure we talk about what the panel does and how to file a complaint and all of that which is also part of that process. >> Thanks, Bill. Sherry, I see your hand went down. with that. >> I I was just going to, you know, Bill just provided that information that, you know, we always like start it off with, you know, a brief overlook overview of, you know, the complaint process, what the panel does, some of our inter relationships, and then open it up to questions. And I think as long as we do

[50:00] that, that puts us squarely within the the the expectations and authority of the ordinance. Thanks. Go ahead, Chris. It >> Thank you. Um, another just thought I had about process would be um that another option would be I could bring a draft of um the potential uh bylaw change to the co-chairs and we could talk about a co-chair meeting. um rather than uh as much as I'd love to work with other panel members, this might be a good a good one for the co-chairs, but just wanted to put that out there. >> Great. Last couple minutes on this topic. Do we have any other thoughts about how we want to move this forward? Anyone have preferences? I guess I should say, is anyone interested in trying to draft this with Chris or do we want to ask Chris to go ahead and work on something and

[51:01] perhaps work with the co-chairs and we can come back next month. >> That would be my suggestion what you just said. >> All right. >> Chris has you have enough information, right? Chris, just something pretty basic. >> Is this something we need to motion and vote on or can we just have this and we'll most >> It's more of like a general direction sort of a thing. It's not really a panel action. So, I wouldn't advise that you need to vote. >> Okay, perfect. Well, thank you, Chris. Appreciate you taking that on and we'll discuss. All right. Uh, next up, we will move into public comment. So, for now, we don't have any new procedures yet. We will continue roughly with what we have been doing, although we'll ask I suppose um for folks to stick with one comment in the chat if they'd like us to read it out

[52:01] loud. Um and we will likely opt to stick to two minutes per person today. All right. And I'm going to turn it over to Solidad for her last uh half of the meeting facilitating for us. Thank you. >> Okay. Thank you so much. Um I am so we have three members of the public in attendance and I I will ask if you're interested in providing public comment to raise your hands so we can un unmute you and Selena if you can help me with the clockwatch that would be great. Um, so again, if if any I don't see any hands up from the public, so might be my shortest public comment in a couple of months. Um, okay. Again, if you if you're

[53:00] interested, you can raise your hand in Zoom and provide public comment. If not, we can move on with the rest of the agenda. Okay. Seems like we don't have any um one interested. Great. So um okay, let's move forward then with community engagement and outreach bill. >> Yeah. So at our last meeting, we had mainly just talked about the fact that this year we want everyone to be involved in community engagement in some some way going to the events or setting up something in your community so that we can um engage with people. And I think that um

[54:00] Selena, were you going to put together a Google uh I think you talked about putting together a Google form for us that people could just kind of plug in community groups that you're connected to. Is that live yet or? >> Yeah, it is. Um so if you are in the SharePoint, um there is a new folder where there is subcommittees. subcommittees then gets um broken down to community outreach and communications committee. Um and then there is a new document that I've created. Um and I'm more than happy to share that via email for you you guys to see that. >> Yeah, that would be great if you could um share a link. And and the thought was that you all are all connected to different communities and so um I know JD and I talked a little bit about your co-op and doing something there and inviting um other folks to just have some kind of an event

[55:00] there uh with them. And so I think the idea is that if if people can put the groups in that they would have an interest in inviting us to then we can see it's typically a couple of panel members and Sherry comes to talk about her role as a police monitor and we share uh we bring some literature and we share about who we are on the panel and how the complaint process works and then we just engage in um a nice conversational dialogue where we ask questions. Some of the questions we can't answer because some of them are related to the police role and and in those cases we either ask Sherry to take them back or we can always reach out and send an email to the chief and say this question came up from a member of the public. So the idea is to circle back even if we don't have the answer. And so what I would encourage everybody to do is once Selena sends out the link to

[56:02] fill that in and and especially if you have ideas or dates or months that you want to do things that we look at those so we have um a few weeks of planning time. We we still have all the literature we need Sherry or do we need to print more? Do we still have flyers and those kinds of things? Um we we have some printed out and then if we're going to do a larger event uh we get more printed. Um it's just printed in in house. >> Okay. >> And by that I mean thank you Selena. >> Yeah in house Selena. So um so we we bring those and um JD. Yeah go ahead please. Yes, I just had a question on what is the formal process to create an event. For example, my co-op like I had mentioned has a annual conference this

[57:01] summer. So all of the co-ops in the Boulder area will be there. >> Um so like what is the formal process to get that in motion? >> So we we created a form last year and I'm not sure where that lives right now. That's do you remember Sherry? We worked on that. >> Yeah. I'm also not I haven't looked at it in a while, so I'm not sure exactly. >> So, we have a form, JD, that we'll find and see if it needs to be adapted. It's very simple. It's just who's the contact person, that would be you, obviously. What's the event, date, time, um things like that, and um any other pertinent information. So once we find that, we'll update it and then send that out, maybe put that in SharePoint as well. Um, so that everybody has access to that. So it's pretty simple and

[58:00] it's usually not a huge lift to do the focus the way that we're doing it. >> Sherry, go ahead. >> Yeah, Jay, do you um do you know the the date or at least like the month when that event is happening? So we can have it on our radar. We have a we we have more time than we normally do. So maybe we can have a few community engagement ideas kicked around. >> Yeah, that'd be fun. >> Have a few. >> I believe that the dates will be in like June, but I can double check and email you the exact >> That would be great. Um, speaking of June, I also we talked about this in the community engagement meeting of just the the possibility of considering whether um Pridefest was something that we wanted to attend at. I

[59:00] shared with the community engagement group that last year um the the city manager or the city had a had a table there and I sort of piggybacked in and worked a couple of hours at the table with some of our literature there and answered questions. Um I learned that um at least my office is not having or the the city manager's office is not having a table. Um, so the I was planning on asking the community engagement meeting when we have it next. Um, if that's something we're that the panel would be interested in in pursuing. Um, but it would be June 13th and it says it's 11 to 4. >> Is that just the one day event? >> Yes. Yes. >> So that makes it easy. Well, but I mean I would before I would sign up, I would want to make sure that, you know, probably at least two panel members would do like a let's see 11 to 4, you know, two to three hour shift so

[60:00] that it's not just me standing at a table. >> Yeah. Okay. Um, Lawrence, I didn't hear if you like Lawrence or Larry, so >> either is fine. and it's fine. >> Um, and Sherry, I'd be glad to to be there for that time period. Um, Bill, since our last uh meeting of the community outreach and engagement committee, I did approach and I got a name at the library and I want to pursue whether they'll co-sponsor something with us and if not that, just get a room at the library where we could have an event. But that's a possibility. >> So, you're still pursuing that? >> Yeah, I'm going to reach out to him this coming week. >> Okay. So, that's something else you all could do. If there's something that you want to set up, just give us a couple weeks of lead time and make sure other

[61:01] people can show up because this is where it'd be nice to have a variety of panel members cuz for the last couple years, it was the same ones who went to everything. And so I think having us all engaged in that would be really helpful. That way it we kind of share share the load of going out and working with the community. And it's also nice because the interaction that doesn't happen during our public comment can really happen in person. >> And Larry, is that the um Boulder Newcomers forum? Uh, Sher, no, that that's with the library. I have to approach the newcomers forum, too. >> Oh, okay. I wasn't sure if it was the same thing. >> Jennifer, I saw your hand up. Is it still up? >> Yes. Um, so I had reached out to the farmers market and we can either do a

[62:00] Wednesday or a Saturday. Um, Wednesday markets don't open up until May. Um, and it just depends on what uh day they have available um where nobody else is uh tableabling there. Um, mind you, the Wednesday market, I 30 to 7:30 on Wednesdays and then the Saturday is a longer day from 8 to 2. >> So, do you have to check um when they have open? >> Yeah, I just have to check the calendar um on their website and then we just sign up. Okay. >> So, whatever day works for everybody involved. And I would love to do Pridefest. However, um I will be out uh June 6th through June 14th. So, I will be missing the meeting on June 8th. >> Okay. Thanks for letting us know. And yeah, if you could check and just see what dates are available and then send that out, then we can get commitment from folks before we sign up. At least we'll we'll know when they are.

[63:03] >> Great. Okay, Sherry, go ahead. >> Sherry, you're muted. >> You're muted. >> Can see I don't do >> back to 2020. Um, I was asking Jennifer if that um involves uh bringing like a a tent and a table or if that's provided >> or maybe just those are details. We'd love to we'd love to know. >> I'm I can check. Um they may be able to provide uh table and chairs. Um I also have a tent if we need with weights and a table and chairs if we need as well. Okay, we have previously used um Lizz's tent when it came >> outdoor events. >> Tent is always available.

[64:01] So, I'm >> My recollection from looking at the Pridefest is that you have to bring everything and you know there's just a patch of dirt on the ground that you're allotted. >> Right. >> Okay. Well, thanks everybody um for sharing all that and then once Selena sends out the link, we can start to fill in some of the groups that we're all connected to and see if there's an opportunity. Evan, I don't know if you know anybody in the health field or medical field that would be interested in hearing what we have to offer. I know you all represent um different groups or there's a student group that we can uh reach out to. So just like put on your thinking caps and see who's out there. Be nice to do um at least one a quarter so that people because I think that's been part of the issue is that a lot of

[65:01] people don't know we exist or if they know we exist they don't know what we do and if they know what we do they don't really know how to access us. So that would be great. Let's see then. Okay. Thanks, Evan. Okay. Okay. >> Okay. Are we good? Uh Sherry, is your hand up again or is it Okay. >> Okay. Go ahead. >> Yeah. Um one thing, Soladad, that uh came up and I'm just wondering if you would have information. Do you know what it takes or if there's availability on bands on the bricks that came up at the community engagement meeting? or are you just not the person? >> I I won't say in public I'm the person, but I can make the connection. I think there's a there there should be a good possibility of uh tableabling there. >> Do you think that would be worthwhile? >> Um I think the attendance to Banks on the

[66:02] Bricks is pretty impressive. Uh so I would say definitely worth it to be there at least a couple of nights. They have eight uh events lined up. So, we will have to ask. I can I can make that connection easily. >> Got to be a good band for me to be there though. So, >> we can I can send you the lineup. >> No, we can work on that. I can definitely uh ask if if if it's possible, but that that will be um um a lot of people and definitely an event for more than two panel members to be present at. Great. Well, >> thanks everybody. Any other ideas that you have, we're welcome to um entertain. So, appreciate it and appreciate your willingness to be involved with our community engagement work. >> Awesome. Um, so I I I'm so happy we're

[67:01] ahead of schedule, so we can either keep going and try to wrap up a little bit early or uh we can take a break. So, I'm open to the needs of the people. Um, >> curious. I didn't see any cases. Do we have a closed session tonight? >> Um, I think we should. There there might be something we would like to discuss. Um, so I would say yes, a brief one, but yes. So, um, do we want to keep going or people need a break? We can take a five minute break. >> I would like a break. Okay. Um, let's do that then. So, it's 7:40 according to my computer. 45 if that's okay. See you then. >> Bringing

[68:04] Okay, bringing everyone back. Um, okay. Just missing two, but I think we're good to go. Okay. Um, okay. So, Sherry IPM report. All right. Okay, my screen looks really weird. Can you Can someone give me a thumbs up or audio confirmation? All right. Okay, great. Um, the April 2026 Independent Police Monitors report

[69:02] Um, looking at the uh case review data for March of 2026, I'm happy to report that the panel conducted three case reviews. We are still waiting for BPD's disposition on one of those cases and there are two cases awaiting panel review currently. Um, looking at the cases that were closed since March uh, 1st, 2026, SM204-00003 has been closed. MI2025-053. BPD officers responded to parents who called 911 out of concern for their young adult son, who they reported was under the influence of alcohol and/or drugs. Upon arrival to son's home, officers spoke with parents and son. Initially, son was calm. When parents learned that

[70:01] officers would not arrest son, parents became agitated and loud towards officer 1. Son then also began yelling and threatening violence to officers. Officers restrained and handcuffed Sun, who then struggled against officers, attempted multiple times to headbutt officer 1, and successfully kicked officer 3. Officers performed a takedown on Sun resulting in injuries to Sun's face and tooth. The allegations against officer one involved a rule one compliance with values rules and general orders. General order 225 use of force failed to deescalate. The panel recommended that this uh allegation be unfounded and the department determined that it would be not sustained. Officer one had a rule four respect for others allegation engaged discourteously and/or unprofessionally towards mother and or father and or son. The panel again recommended that that this allegation be unfounded and the department determined

[71:01] that it was not sustained. Uh officer one had a rule six allegation use of force performed a takedown on Sun. The panel recommended that this be exonerated and the department agreed. And officer 1 had an additional rule six use of force allegation, restrained son with a knee on his back. The panel recommended that this is exonerated and the department also agreed. Um, officer 2 had a rule six use of force performed a takedown on Sun. The panel recommended that it be exonerated and the department agreed. And then officer 2 had a second rule six use of force allegation restrained son with a knee on his back. The panel recommended that this be exonerated and the department agreed. And for officer three, there was a single allegation of a rule six use of force performed a takedown on sun. The panel recommended that this allegation be exonerated and the department determined that it was

[72:00] unfounded. Um, additional comments on this incident. The reviewing panel members recognize that officer 1 and other BPD officers of color have additional burdens due to the differential treatment they often receive from community members. The panel is concerned that the potential impact of racial bias in community complaints or interactions involving officers of color may not always be fully considered within exe existing review and support systems. Without deliberate attention to these dynamics, officers of color may experience repeated complaints, community disrespect, or differential scrutiny that can affect morale, wellness, and perceptions of fairness within the department. As noted in the recommendations offered below, the panel is open to and interested in working with the department to generate ideas for addressing these dynamics in an if effort to mitigate their effects. The panel is also concerned that the absence

[73:00] of specific training or operational guidance related to managing handcuffed but still actively dangerous individuals may leave officers without clear tools or protocols during high-risk situations. The reviewing panel members recognized that the responding BPD sergeant remained calm and effectively used deescalation techniques while engaging with members of the family. Recommendations. The panel recommends that the Boulder Police Department one examine community complaint patterns and officer experiences. that they conduct a review to determine whether officers of color experience disproportionate complaints, heightened scrutiny, or differential community treatment, and assess whether additional department departmental support or policy considerations are warranted. Two, strengthen support resources for officers of color. Explore ways to provide meaningful support structures for officers of color who may experience the cumulative impact of community bias,

[74:02] complaints, or disrespectful interactions. This may include access to culturally responsive well wellness resources, confidential opportunities to process the impact of community interactions, and supervisory awareness of how bias may influence community reporting patterns. Three, engage officers of color in dialogue about their experiences. create structured opportunities for officers of color to share their experiences of policing within the Boulder community so that departmental leadership and the panel can better understand and respond to the realities they face. And four, review training and operational guidance for volatile restrained individuals. Evaluate current policies and training related to situations involving active asalants who are already handcuffed and consider implementing additional scenario-based training or guidance to help officers safely manage volatile encounters while minimizing risks to both community members and officers.

[75:02] And the chief of police responded to these uh recommendations from the panel. Um, one, examine community complaint patterns and officer experiences. The response is, "This is being discussed and has been discussed with the monitor. This is a sensitive area and will require additional workload. If we are able to gather this information, I will share with the panel. Two, the recommendations to strengthen support resources for officers of color." Chief's response, "This is in progress. By forming our African-American liaison officer program, we have been able to work with faith leaders Dr. Rebaka at the CU cause, connect our officers with Noble, the National Organization of Black Law Enforcement Officers, and have been incredibly clear about our commitment to supporting them. They have been able to attend events and strengthen partnerships in the community. We will continue to work to strengthen this area. Recommendation three, engage officers of color in dialogue about

[76:00] their experiences. The chief's response related to item number two. This has been occurring with me through our liaison meetings and I will continue to meet with the unique liaison groups and continue to have ongoing dialogue. And the fourth recommendation, review training and operational guidance for volatile restrained individuals. The chief's response, I will discuss this with our training team to ensure we have our eye on this topic and to see how we can continue to incorporate this topic into future trainings. MI2026-00002. The complainant was loading copper pipes into his personal vehicle near a construction site. A Fort Collins police officer detained complainant. Both Fort Collins and BPD officers were engaged in a multi-jurisdictional task force to investigate stolen vehicles and thefts of material in Boulder. BPD officer 1 responded on scene and engaged with complainant who said he was contracted to remove plumbing from the construction site. Complainant offered to provide

[77:00] paperwork proving he was contracted and to telephone his general contractor. Complainant dialed his general general contractor and handed his phone to officer 1 who spoke briefly with the general contractor before passing the phone to the Fort Collins officer. Officer 1 reviewed complainant's paperwork and offered to explain why they were investigating potential copper theft. Complainant refused, grabbed his phone, and exited the area. Officer 1 neither told complainant that he could not leave nor prevented complainant from leaving. PSU referred this complaint to the Fort Collins Police Department internal affairs so that they could review the Fort Collins officer's behavior. The allegation against officer 1, rule 5, police authority and public trust detained complainant without justification. The monitor recommended that this allegation be unfounded in accordance with general order 120 and the department agreed. MI2026-003

[78:00] complainant reported that he was struck or jabbed in the back at the Boulder County Jail in 2014. He described that after exiting the BPD vehicle in the jail Sallyport, former officer 1 struck or jabbed him in the back. BPD officers were not equipped with bodywn camera in 2014 and the county jail reported that they did not have video from this incident. He also attempt alleged his 2014 arrest lacked probable cause but did not respond to PSU's attempts to obtain additional details. Due to the lack of video evidence and former officer one no longer being a member of BPD. This matter was administratively closed. Um there were two allegations against officer one that I recommended be administratively closed and the department agreed. Um the first allegation was rule six, use of force, struck or jabbed complainant in the back. And the second against former officer one was rule five, police authority and public trust arrested complaintant without probable cause.

[79:04] I am pleased to finally report that uh with the closure of SM2024-003, there are no open 2024 cases. Um looking at the uh case statistics for March 2026, the monitor classified seven complaints. Three of those were misconduct. Zero were serious misconduct. There were zero community inquiries. Two community feedbacks. Two unspecified in incidents. Zero cases were referred to conflict facilitation process. The monitor observed one interview. There was zero critical incident scene response. Um there were no uh investigations provided to the monitor to review for thorough and completeness and BPD closed four cases. As of April 7th of this year, the open

[80:02] monitor panel panel docket um was 32 cases. Of those 15 are classified, two are pending monitor classification and 15 are in PSU preliminary investigation status. Um and some of the uh additional activities and outreach that I did this past month, um participated in the Nicole conference committee, attended um imagining black futures, uh attended the police oversight 5-year review workshops, the BPD annual awards ceremony, um conducted uh new panel member training segments, uh did BBSD outreach, uh attended a Latino Chamber of Commerce event, um and attended the Boulder Valley Comprehensive Plan openhouse. Does anyone have any questions?

[81:08] Okay. Okay, thank you Sherry. Um, so next we have uh the opportunity to go to close session. For that we need um a panel member to move to go to close session and panel members should vote on it. So, um, if that's something we need to do, I will entertain a motion. >> I move >> we go into close section. >> Um, >> awesome. Thank you. So, Larry moves

[82:00] first seconds and uh all those in favor, please vote. in favor. >> Awesome. Thank you. Uh Selena, can you help us? >> Oh, yeah. >> 25 or how many minutes? >> Um, you can do 20 minutes, but I don't think it's going to take that long. >> Okay. >> Awesome. All right. See you guys soon. >> We're gonna be in a Zoom breakout room for new people. So, are we having the same issue again? >> Yep. >> Okay. I don't see you. This is weird because I don't see you on the I mean, you're here, but I don't see you on on the list.

[83:02] Um, and I don't know. >> Is it you and me again, Chris? >> Let's see. Give me one sec. Let me see if this works. Um, >> I'll message uh Sherry just to let her know that >> Yeah. Okay, thanks everyone. And just to make um this very transparent, I wasn't able to join uh on via Zoom to the close

[84:01] session, but I was on the phone with Bill, so I was able to listen to what you were discussing. So, so thank you. Um, I do think there there's something to be said about, you know, uh, and Chris, I I would appreciate your guidance moving forward in terms of which part of this conversation should be part of the open meeting and which part belongs to a closed session, knowing that that's to talk about specifics on cases. And this seemed like a blur line between specific of a case and actually something going on with interpretation and and and processes. So um that that will be appreciated. I mean not for me but for the co-chairs moving forward so they can guide that process. Uh but I do think that's something to be said about um what belongs to to this part of the meeting. So um thank you everyone. And coming back to the agenda um I it doesn't seem that

[85:01] we have any voting to do on any case. Um, Sherry, do you want to share anything about assignment status or that's not necessary right now? >> Um, I guess that's not not necessary right now. >> Okay. Awesome. And just uh as my last act as a co-chair I will remind um panel members that when we are in open meetings well appreciated the comments we stay away from any conversation or comments happening on the chat just because we're in a public meeting and everything should be discussed in here. So uh again transparency uh first there were some uh congratulations for me specifically and leaving the position but part of what we do is uh conduct all the conversation in the eyes of the public and the chat is not necessarily available for everyone to see. Uh so

[86:01] just so we comply with um Colorado open uh meetings law we we kind of don't contact conversations conversations on the on the chat. Um so if uh anyone has anything else that they want to add um we can do it now. We have a few minutes. If not we can adjourn. Sherry >> thanks. Just super quickly, the meeting in May for panel members is going to be in person. So I hope to not see you as little squares on a screen, but uh in in real and in person. >> Um also a reminder for everyone since I saw some comments coming in um I can't remember in which platform but we have to work with a quorum. So if people know in advance that they're not going to be able to come to meetings, the sooner that you let us know the better. So um

[87:02] if we don't have quorum, we cannot have a meeting and make decisions. We could conduct a meeting, but we won't be able to make any kind of voting, not even to approve the agenda. So, uh, if people are planning on being out during the summer, please let the co-chairs and Sherry and Selena know. So, uh, they we can plan accordingly and and we can raise those flags if we're at any point. We're not going to have enough quarum to have our meeting. Um, okay. So, that being said, thank you everyone. It's been a pleasure to be your co-chair for two years. Uh, and I'll see you next month as a plane guest, which is going to be amazing. So, >> good night. >> I'll see you next time. Good night, everybody. Thank you all. Thanks everyone. Bye.