October 27, 2025 — Parks and Recreation Advisory Board Regular Meeting

Transcript

Captions from City of Boulder YouTube recording.

[0:08] Clarissa, can you please begin recording? Yes, it's reporting. Alright, do we have anybody who's participating online? Entered into the room? Yes. It's… so we have… public participants, and we also have Allie, Brian, Charlotte, and Emily. Okay, great. Thanks, everyone, for joining us tonight. We have a quorum of CRAB members present, so I will officially call the meeting to order. Would anybody like to make a motion to approve the agenda?

[1:00] Make a motion. But I'd like to second this motion. Second. Thank you. Is there any discussion for this motion to approve the agenda, or any questions or comments on the agenda? All right, do we know opposition? The motion passes, the agenda is approved. I will now turn it over to the director, which tonight is Scott, for future board items. This item will be presented by Scott. to highlight upcoming board activities. As a reminder, this is also where members of the PRAM can suggest items to be considered for scheduling at the next agenda-setting meeting. Thank you, Madam Chair and members of PRAB. I'm Scott Schutenberg, I'm the Deputy Director of Parks and Rec. Allie is with us tonight online, but she is more listening in, so… I'll be going through the future board items. First of all, thank you for participating in the, tour on Friday. I think that was extremely productive and valuable, and hopefully y'all had a great experience.

[2:02] For November, we have a few things that are coming up, as far as matters from the department. We'll be highlighting launching Nature Everywhere for the City of Boulder, North Boulder Park Schematic Design, Barker Park Schematic Design, and then we'll do a final touch on the 2026 fee schedule. As far as, other topics or meetings, on November 13th, City Council will have a study session, focused on the civic area concept. And then we have canceled our December Prabh meeting. And that's all I have for you. Okay. Thank you, Scott. Moving on to public participation. This portion of the meeting is for members of the public to communicate ideas or concerns to the board regarding parks and recreation issues for which the public… for which a public hearing is not scheduled for later in this meeting. Tonight, there is not any public hearing scheduled, so all public participation will happen at this time. During this public participation time, the public is encouraged to comment on the need for parks and recreation programs and facilities as they perceive them. All speakers are limited to 3 minutes, depending on the nature of your matter.

[3:14] You may or may not receive a response from the board after you deliver your comments. The board is always listening and appreciative of community feedback. Secretary will, present additional guidelines and then call on our first speaker, but I would like to mention for anybody who is speaking tonight, if you would like to, we find this room a little bit non-conducive since you're all behind us, so if you prefer to stand up and go to the front of the room, you're welcome, or you could go stand right in your chair and we're happy to turn around, so whatever you're most comfortable. I'll bring up the… Rules of 20 minutes, please.

[4:22] All right, the City has engaged with community members to co-create a vision for productive, meaningful, and inclusive conversations. This vision supports physical and emotional safety for community members, staff, and councils, as well as democracy for people of all ages, identities, lived experiences, and political perspectives. For more information about this vision and community engagement process, please visit our website at the link below. The City will enforce the rules of decorum found in the Boulder Revised Code, including participants are required to sign up to speak using the name they are commonly known by, and individuals must display their whole name before being allowed to speak online. Currently, only audio testimony is permitted online.

[5:08] No attendee shall disrupt, disturb, or otherwise impede the orderly conduct of any council meeting in a manner that obstructs the business of the meeting. This also includes failing to obey any lawful order of the presiding officer to leave the meeting room or refrain from addressing the council. Only one person at a time at the podium, unless an accommodation, like an interpreter, is required. All remarks and testimonies shall be limited to matters related to city business. No standing in or otherwise blocking the aisles in violation of the fire code, or in any way that obstructs the vision or audio of other audience members. No signs or flags shall be permitted in council chambers, except for one sign held by a person measuring no more than 11 by 17 inches, which is held no higher than the person's face. No participant shall make threats or use other forms of intimidation against any person. We ask that you not affix items to the podium or guides and walls or other surfaces of the chamber. Signs, flags, and other items used to communicate must be held by one person when displayed.

[6:16] Obscenity, other epithets based on race, gender, or religion, and other speech and behavior that disrupts or otherwise impedes the meeting will not be tolerated. In-person participants are asked to refrain from expressing support or disagreement verbally or with sounds such as applause or with the exception of declarations. Traditionally, support is shown through American Sign Language applause or jazz hands. We will begin the public comment in order that it was received. Tonight, it will start with Lynn Siegel. Lynn, I'm going to… Allow you to speak.

[7:05] Please hit accept. Did you put up the timer on one of the windows so that I can see the prab meeting window bigger? It's just like an ant could read it. I want to see who I'm talking to. Please. Did you hear me, Clarissa? Show info. Lynn, you should be able to adjust it on your side. I'm on the biggest of everything, there is no place for me to do that on my end. It's because I'm sharing screens, so then it is only showing the 3 minutes. 3-minute timer, just, like, Allie has a window, put it in one of those windows.

[8:00] And then the Prabh meeting window will be large enough that I can see who I'm speaking to. I'm just not an ant. When in the top right corner, there's a view button, and you need to change that to side-by-side. No, there's only recording, sign in, there's no view button on my screen. I know what you're talking about. Make sure I'm able to see it on my end, but… There's nothing at my end. Is that working? Unfortunately, Lynn, it doesn't look like we can make the adjustment on our end for your computer, so we'd like to move forward with your comments, so your 3 minutes will begin now. Okay, could we please, solve this for the next time that I come? Because I like to see who I'm speaking to, and I don't like to be left to the last minute to have to use up my time this way.

[9:03] I'm Carissa. Or to waste your time. Thank you, Lynn. So, then I'll connect with you, Scott, or who, to solve this? That's… that's fine, Lynn. I'm happy to connect with you. Go ahead and proceed with your comments. Okay, yeah. Well, I went on this tour And… I have some… Thoughts? I'm pretty concerned about all the expenses, and all the money that's going into this, and all these… hard-working staffers, that I think, are… are… Being dedicated… my tax money's being dedicated to a number of follies. Not the least of which is two lanes on the swimming pool at East Boulder Rec Center. When we have a South Boulder Rec Center, the pool is completely you know, having to be replaced. Now, if we can delay that a few years, that's great, but that still puts us in a huge amount of debt. And with a Trump administration, I'm not anticipating that that debt is going to get

[10:14] relieved more. I'm anticipating that things are going to get a lot worse before they get better. So I just thought that it seemed like, all these Funding initiatives for the pickleball courts, and for the two lanes, and for the expansion seemed excessive, considering the financial circumstances. And so, I loved, you know, the tour and everything, but I don't think that it was really oriented towards the economics of things. You know, for example, the sandbox and the fabulous thing that it is, and saying that in 2 years, it's gonna be outdated, or it's gonna fall apart. Well, that's just not true. And a lot of…

[11:07] time and effort, and, money went into that, and why are you just saying, in 2 years, we're gonna redo it? And, you know, this whole thing with Sundance, and putting in all this massive, you know, civic center. Extravaganzas is very, liberal, considering that we're not meeting our budget, that we have 521 million dollar budget that we can't meet, that we've got all these deficits in the open space, and in… and in parks and recreation, and everywhere. Why… why all this money towards these luxuries, and the fees, I wouldn't even pay $7. I'm certainly not going to pay 10 bucks. And as far as including the public, if you don't get a vanpool, you need to coordinate carpooling so that people can go together and make these things to really engage the public better.

[12:08] Thank you, Lynn, for speaking tonight. We appreciate it. Okay, moving on to our next speaker. Our next speaker is Margot… It's in person? Yes. Hello. Hi, everyone. Margo Smith, 3335 14th Street, Boulder. In the current version of Civic Area Plan 2, I'm opposed to the obscuring, the covering up of the historic The most historic feature of Central Park, the ditch that runs from the Boulder Creek Headgate at Broadway to 13th Street. This ditch section provides an amazing educational opportunity about the gold of this arid region, water, and specifically about older agriculture in this perfect spot where it comes into the farmer's market.

[13:07] The proposed story walk of the plan is missing the most historic feature of this area, the water conduit painstakingly dug in approximately 1860 that allowed the growth of farms and the tree beauty of Boulder. Throughout the nation, water courses that were covered are being daylit once again. Does Boulder want to be the one going backwards in this trend? With the cost overruns that have occurred in Central Park and the current budget issues, do we want to spend money to cover an existing feature of such high value? Does a splash pad come even close to the experience of tranquility of flowing water? Putting in a lawn that will create, quote, continuity and enhance circulation seen feeble benefits by comparison.

[14:00] I'm for the following, working in collaboration with the Ditch Riders to assist in their mandate of ensuring water flow while keeping the mature trees already there for their shade and carbon sequestration, implementing safety features, a grill on the upstream side of the underpass. Creative and safe access of this waterway, perhaps like a stepped access? Kid and stroller scaled pedestrian bridge or two that link the north and south lawns. and interpretive signage, bringing eye-opening awareness of this part of Boulder history to locals and tourists alike. I beg to differ on the statement provided in your packet. A majority of community members voted to connect the green lawn. Show me where votes were systematically collected, and where the option of a well-designed inclusion of the ditch was provided. The ditch section along the tea house is obscured by the activity on 13th Street and can provide none of the benefits described above.

[15:03] If the current plan is adopted, we will lose the already provided incredible opportunity to make this farmer's market area more bolder, unique. and enjoyable, and raise awareness of a critical part of Boulder history. The 2015 Master Plan states that the Civic Park is to, quote, celebrate history. Let's celebrate the most significant piece of history here. I urge you, the advisory board, to request a revision… Thank you, for specific area planning. Thank you. Thank you. That will be the one problem that's standing in the front. Thank you. Our next public participant is Karen Paul. But I also believe is in person. But I stand here. Perfect. Okay, wherever you're comfortable. Thank you. Thanks for the opportunity. I just want to make some comments on behalf of almost 100 women pickleball players, senior, mostly seniors, many Silver Sneakers, Renew Masters, etc.

[16:14] Firstly, I want to address The idea that has gone around that, there's been a monopolization of courts based on reservations. I want to clarify, we have 3 groups of women, composing almost 100, And in each of those groups, there have been designated schedules, schedulers for 4 to 5 years we've been doing this. So, for instance, I've been scheduling regularly for all these years for one-third of these players, and I'm often not Playing, so every court reservation is different players, and… like I say, almost 100 women have taken advantage of this. Some are playing once a month, some are playing four to five times a week. But it's been an incredible opportunity to build community for these women. For some of… for some of these players, this is their main form of recreation. For some, it's their really important form of socialization. So, with the changes going on.

[17:20] I just wanted to… Clarify for our group that this has been an incredibly important and fun activity for a lot of senior women, and we don't want to lose it. I've already spoken with Scott and Erin about consolidating our three groups into one official league, and Everybody wants to do that, so that we can work with you guys on whatever scheduling platform ends up looking like for league play, so that we can continue to book two to four courts regularly, year-round. We play

[18:00] In the winter months, we basically started volunteer shoveling of the courts, and on any given shoveling day lately, most of those shovelers will be women from our group. So, this is avid enthusiastic participation that we really appreciate having, and this is North Boulder, and we really appreciate having these courts in our neighborhood. We've talked about it based on the news, and of course, our group is willing to pay for using the courts, but certainly as seniors, we hope to have your consideration. We want to make a note, which I'm sure you've heard before, that It seems a little inequitable that the pickle courts cost the same as the tennis courts. noted, going forward with the increase in commercial venues and courts, just to be clear, the reservation system has been way less competitive, so we're hoping it'll be mutually beneficial to support our group in the future. Thank you. Thank you.

[19:17] Thank you. Our next public participant is Judy Emery. Let me just do what Karen did. The lighting seems better here. Hi, my name's Judy Emery, and I'm a Barclays board member. And, thank you for letting me address you. We did send these comments to city staff, but I wanted to present them to the full board, and so I will go ahead and summarize some of our suggestions. Because, we met, and we talked about the new pricing structure, and it was a major topic of discussion. We reviewed the feedback we received from our member community. on the subject, and it was considerable. First, I think the board recognizes the need for pricing changes, and understands that Parks and Rec is looking to recoup operational costs on these courts, and we view that as a good thing overall. However, we do have… think there's some room for improvement in the proposed model, and with that in mind, we have these suggestions. We continue to feel that pricing a pickleball court reservations is the same as

[20:24] Tennis reservations makes no sense in the current situation where we have no dedicated pickleball courts. That is, all current pickleball courts share a physical space with a tennis court, two pickleball courts per tennis court. Why should we players be paying the same price as tennis players when they're only occupying 50% of the courts? Additionally, this motto incents groups of pickleball players to reserve a single tennis court, and then just use it to play pickleball matches. Not only does this significantly skew the usage data for Parks and Rec, it incorrectly appears that more people are already tennis courts than they are, but it potentially needlessly ties up a pickleball court if a group doesn't end up using all of its eight players. We believe a system where tennis courts reservations cost $10 and pickleball reservations cost $5 makes sense.

[21:19] There seems to also be a priority by the Parks and Rec team to make pricing and membership fees equitable across various groups, such as seniors, students, and families. with income levels below certain thresholds. We support the mindset, but we do not understand why court reservations are being singularly excluded from this. We have heard from many, many seniors who are upset about this. Coupled with the fact that none of the membership options include free court reservations anymore, just seems like a double whammy. We suggest that discounts for these groups be extended to include court reservations. We understand that the current software application for court reservations does not integrate with your membership software, and that limitation is why none of the memberships include any court reservations. However, we've also heard from the software

[22:05] developers, that is their most commonly requested feature, and one that they've been working on of implementing in the near future. So, with that in mind, we'd like to ask that Parks and Rec be willing to commit to including court reservations in one or more of the membership plans, should the software be updated. An additional open play times at North Boulder Rec Center, we've requested week, Wednesday evenings for the North Boulder organizers, and we also requested 8 days, or 7 days a week. There's not 8 days in a week. 7 days in a week gets up. Thank you so much, yeah, Tina. Our next participant is Grace Thompson. Oh, okay. Fill that in. Hi, I'm Grace Thompson. I was the co-founder of Boat Coat Pickleball Club, 3 years ago. We have 600 members.

[23:00] More than half of those members are 60 and up. And since Judy got cut short on that last piece, I can, bring you all to speed on that. So, the reason we're requesting more open play at South, and this piggybacks also on Karen, so Karen represents groups that reserve courts in North, groups of women. In South, we have small numbers of folks that have been volunteering for years. to reserve courts. and give them to the public as open play, and that's been going on for years. We have asked for open play in the past for the weekends. Right now, there's open play from Monday through Friday, but not on Saturdays and Sundays, which is our busiest days, actually, there for open play. So we have designated people that get on the, and reserve… get on the system, reserve courts, and they open it up to the public. And they've been doing this for years. So we've asked for that. So that's what, Judy was going to tell you about.

[24:03] But for me, I just wanted to talk more deep about the increase for seniors, because that's what we've been getting most feedback on. So the drop-in rates that they're proposing right now is about an 80% increase. Adults are going from 11 to 15, seniors from 9 to 11, and youth from 7 to 9. So… The court reservations now, which… used to be $5 an hour are going to $10 an hour. So, the court fees are doubling, whereas drop-in fees at the rec centers are only going up 18%. Anyone that's a SilverSneaker member, or an active Renew member, they were paying zero to do a court reservation, just like they get into a rec center and they don't pay. So they were getting court reservations without paying, so they're getting a 1000% increase.

[25:00] So, any senior now is going to have to pay $10 an hour before they were paying nothing. So, we just feel we'd like to get the city to get more in line with the increases that they're doing at the front desk and going into the rec centers, but this is a big blow. To our pickleball players. And, We just want you to take that into consideration. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, that was all of our public participation. That was signed up in advance? Is there anyone who has not been called who wants to participate? Yes. I think I'm gonna go back… yeah. Are we ready for Brian Clarissa? Yes, okay.

[26:00] Great, good evening. Thank you all for the opportunity to speak tonight. My name is Ryan Bennett. I am one of the co-leaders of the Reimagine South Boulder Rec Center Advocacy Group. So, I wanted to start by sharing my appreciation for the recent investment that was made into the South Boulder Rec Center to extend the life of the facility. We're really thankful for all the efforts of this team and many others who continue to support the Rec Center, which, as you all know, is such a critical part of our community. We've been working with Megan and others to plan a grand reopening party that we're excited about on November 16th, so thanks, Megan, for all the support there. And of course, we'd love to see you all there to bring back the pool for the rec center, which we're really energized about. We'll say, you know, our group of nearly a thousand supporters feel really strongly that having a modern, fully functioning, accessible rec center in South Boulder is pivotal to the health and well-being for our community. And while we are excited about the recent investment that was made, we know that the building remains at the end of its useful life, and that we're only extending the clock until the building is no longer able to safely function. And of course, these investments that were made

[27:11] don't fix the fundamental challenges that exist for the center. The fact that it has a lack of accessibility, that the pool's underneath the water table, etc, etc. So as a result, we believe it's critical to maintain urgency on fully rebuilding the South Boulder Rec Center. The South Boulder Rec Center could fail at any time, and we know it will take years to successfully fund, plan, and build a new rec center. It's important that we make progress now to avoid our community being left without a rec center for an extended period of time. We recently engaged with many of the City Council candidates in the upcoming election to understand their perspectives on reimagining the South Boulder Rec Center, and to ensure that they understand how important this is for our community. And it was really encouraging to see the response from many of the candidates on how they're thinking about what the South Boulder Rec Center means for our community.

[28:04] We will continue to actively engage and advocate for prioritizing the reimagination of the South Boulder Rec Center as part of the City's Fund Our Future Financial Strategy Initiative. The South Boulder Rec Center has been a pillar of our community for over 50 years. And we're committed to doing whatever it takes to ensure that the South Boulder Rec Center remains a pillar of our community for the next 50 years. Thanks so much for your time, and look forward to continuing to engage with you all as we move forward. Thank you, Graham. Is there anybody else you'd like to speak to? Nobody else online for this one? There is one with their hand raised. I'll also ask if anyone else wants to participate, please raise your hand as well. Beth, I will call on you next. Please accept. When the message pops up.

[29:13] Beth, you're… you should be able to speak if you'd like to participate. Oh. How's that? It's working, thank you. Hi, sure. I'm Beth White-O'Connor, and I am… one of the… in one of the three groups that Karen spoke about, and I just wanted to say I support everything that Karen said, Judy said, Grace said, and that, You know, it's a really important social event for seniors to continue to, you know. age healthily to have pickleball, and the way that we've been able to reserve it has been great, and so hopefully we can come up with a system where we can continue that. And the one other thing I'd like to mention is that

[30:00] You know, while… as seniors, we don't pay to go into the rec center. We do pay for our insurance, which I believe the rec center gets, reimbursed for when we check in, so I can't… you know, say more than that, but it's not like it's free, because our insurance isn't free. So, anyway, I just want to mention that, and thanks for, here… listening to me. Have a good evening, everyone. Thank you, Beth. Thank you. Anyone else would like to speak, please raise your hand. Alright, that concludes our public participation. The most of the writer's got in there. I raised my hand. Yeah, I didn't know if it would work, but then… Bush. I don't know. Nowhere the rest? Well, you know, those other three were there. All right. Thank you all for your comments. Since there are no other community members who'd like to speak tonight, we'll now close public participation.

[31:01] Would any members of staff like to offer information on any of the comments at this time? Yeah, I would certainly be happy, but I would turn to Pratt and say, what would you like to hear answers to? Are there any questions or information that you feel would be beneficial that I, share or provide additional details on that were presented this evening? I have a couple, does anybody have anything to add? Something, yeah, just a little bit of commentary on, OpenFly, if there's any changes that are being made there. Absolutely. Well, first and foremost, we're very excited for our passionate pickleballers within the community, and thank you all for coming out and speaking this evening. It's exciting to live in a community that our community members are so passionate and, are advocates for healthy and thriving, lives and courts activities, and so thank you for that. I will say, Erin Simone is in the back as well, and I'm working with her and her team, and we're looking at expanding, the open times, and we've heard loud and clear from both Poco and Karen about the desire for more drop-in play and ability for people to have access. And so, Erin and her team are working on, I believe, Sunday nights at

[32:17] Saturday and Sunday mornings was the request itself, so that's going to be possible, and we're gonna open that up as of November 15th, and then the other request was Wednesday evenings at NORD, so I'm going back and forth with Zach right now on best times, and we're gonna make that happen as well. Awesome. Yeah, that's great. Thank you. I appreciate that. Thank you. Scott, on a similar note, just to reiterate, for the folks concerned about the fee schedule, we are going to be talking about that in detail next month. Correct, yeah. And I will say, we understand that there is a significant increase in fees as to what Pratt has already approved, but we certainly want to look at opportunities to partner and discount in certain ways, and

[33:04] Our biggest concern is, is making sure that we're providing fair and equitable access to our courts. That being said, at this time, we do not receive any reimbursements from third-party, third-party vendors, like the insurance companies. So, while we appreciate the fact that folks pay in towards their insurance. we only receive reimbursements, and it's a partial reimbursement for swipes in the rec centers, but not at the courts. And unfortunately, because we don't have card swipes or staff monitoring those courts. There is no way to submit for any kind of reimbursement for court usage in our court system. Bernie, I wanted to just add a quick correction. We are talking about the fee schedule tonight, and it would be brought back next month if needed. I see. And also, quick correction, technically, PRAB doesn't have the option to approve it, we just have the option to review it. Correct.

[34:05] Okay, and then, I had a question about the comment between tennis versus pickleball costs, since you're only using half the courts. Is that something… have you looked at other cities? Are other cities? doing it differently, or charging half for pickleball if it's half a court, or how… how does that work? Absolutely, and one thing we did hear loud and clear in the court system plan was the desire for dedicated pickleball and dedicated tennis courts, and that's where we're moving to as a system. And so, as we've adjusted fees, we haven't adjusted the court fees since 2012, so it's been quite a while, but I think we're also preparing for what's going to be happening in the next 5 years with Mark and his team and expanding our court system across all areas. I will say it is pretty consistent, across other communities. That they do charge the same fee for either tennis or pickleball based on the activity.

[35:02] We also do something very similar when we rent out a gymnasium, whether you're playing basketball, volleyball, or badminton. The court size doesn't necessarily get taken into consideration. The fee is the fee for renting out a half a court in a gymnasium, for example. Okay. And then, the question of courts being part of one of the new packages. Is that something that you all looked at, or are you just gonna… Did you find that to be not feasible? Well, absolutely. We're excited to work with Amelia and our SmartRec software, and as Grace mentioned, you know, it's something that's very heavily requested from Amelia, and we're going to continue to work with them, and when it does become available, we'll certainly look into a court membership type, or some type of a membership package that includes courts. Unfortunately, for right now, it's not an option. Okay. And then the Silver Sneakers, one last question on that one. We talked a little bit about this last month, and I'm assuming we'll talk a little bit more about it today, but are we… we are continuing that program at the rec centers, or we're not continuing that program?

[36:09] That program does continue. For 2026, we do not have any changes to that program, and so Silver Sneakers and Renew Active would work at the reservoir, the outdoor pools, and the rec centers. We have never received reimbursements for port usage. And so, historically, we have encouraged people that do utilize the courts to go into the rec centers and swipe in before using the courts adjacent to the rec centers. Unfortunately, there's no way to really monitor that, and we have had few swipes. I don't know, Megan, you might be able to talk about it a little bit more, but… I mean, if you're gonna go out and use the courts during the free outdoor drop-in time, and you're going straight to the park, it's very rare that you come inside beforehand to swipe a card, and it just… people don't…

[37:00] actively do it. I just think SilverSneakers is a program it's going to maintain. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No changes to SilverSneakers as far as access to any of our recreation facilities, beyond the same change to all memberships for courts. And then last question is for the ditch. what is the purpose, and I know we'll talk about this later, but since we have public in the room, Marco was asking questions about it, what was the rationalization for looking to cover that ditch? defer to Shahomi, who's in the back of the room, who's our, senior landscape architect that's, working on that project. Yeah, I can answer that. I can get into it in more detail with the presentation, you can see the diagram, the way the park functions, but we're covering a section bridging over one segment of the ditch so that the park has continuous circulation. It expands the event lawn space and capacity for the bandshell. It allows views to the iconic flat irons, and then it also just creates, more space that we can do programming in terms of

[38:08] nature play and seating and gathering areas, there's a lot of amenities that we can actually add throughout the park because of the one connection. We are looking at keeping the ditch open next to the tea house, and connecting into the creek as well. And the creek is also always open for water, too. And when you say land bridge, do you mean… will you be, like, putting a pipe in for the water, or does the water still run free, and you just… Yeah, the water will continue to run, and we'll work the digital app. We have to maintain that flow. So, it'll look like a bridge with turf over it, so it, looks contiguous with the rest of the event lawn of the park. And so that'll be, again, a segment of infrastructure. So you don't have to pipe the water? There will be a pipe that connects the water, so it allows free flow. I really don't have any other comments. Thank you.

[39:03] Hey, anybody, anybody else want to talk about any other… I have a ques… I just want to address Brian's comment on, South Border Rec Center. Do we have… specifics on why we're prioritizing, the pool at East Boulder Rec Center, trying to get two lanes in there. Is that something that could be folded in to the South Boulder Rec Center? Rather than moving from one wing to a completely… Do you want me to take that one? Well, I'll start by saying, the renovations at the East Boulder Community Center are CCRS-funded, and that was a dedicated, named project in the CCRS that the community voted for. So those dollars cannot be diverted from East to South. So that's the biggest reason we would not make that change and move dollars from east. over to the South Boulder with the existing funding that we have currently allocated.

[40:00] Just, sorry, just to add to that, we determined that East is reaching that inflection point, where if we don't invest in it now, it would make it more expensive. It would make it south by the time we got to it, if we prioritized that funding elsewhere as well. So it's really timely that we spend good money now instead of spending bad money later, on that building. I guess I'm not asking about moving the CCRS. I'm just wondering about the scope of the plan in general. I'm going to suggest we have a lot of time on the agenda for this later on. Why don't we… why don't we move forward and return to the conversation? Sure, yeah. If I could just say one thing, just to contribute. First of all, thanks, Ryan, and I know Yvonne's here as well, for… from Reimagine South Boulder. I appreciate you coming out and representing a very large interest group. I do know… I know we're going to be talking about this in depth, but I… and I hope that this is part of the conversation later, is I know CCRS has already been dedicated for East Boulder, and

[41:02] and we have a pot of money there sitting there for East Boulder, I get that. What is not clear to me is, I think the dedicated money is in the tens of millions. And… and again, this is something we can talk about later, but just because the voters are approved, it doesn't mean we have to spend it. And I think what Rob is getting at here is that That money, certainly, Megan, I would support wholeheartedly, we need to put money into East Boulder. We don't want it to let… we don't want to allow it to get to the disrepair situation that we've got in South Boulder. But adding additional capacity isn't necessarily putting East Boulder at risk of being in disrepair. What we're talking about with adding new lanes. or energy efficiency upgrades, those aren't necessarily putting East Boulder in a dangerous sort of operational standpoint. And I… so I'm… I don't think Rob nor I am suggesting that money shouldn't be used to keep that

[42:02] in good, modern repair. But I think the question is, and again, we're going to talk about this later, the question is. do we have to spend all that 50-plus million that the voters said we can dedicate to East Boulder if we… if it's more cost-effective for all Boulder taxpayers. why wouldn't we just use the new construction at South Boulder to say, instead of major renovation at East Boulder, why don't we do something that makes more sense? We're going to have to rebuild South Boulder. Why don't we build additional pool capacity there while we're at it? And that way, we're using taxpayer dollars the most efficiently, the most effectively as possible. I think that's what… I don't want to put words in your mouth, Rob. That's where I was coming, yeah. Yeah. And we do have an agenda item for this tonight, and we'd really love to get into the presentation. We have staff here that want to talk about this, so if we can table this discussion until later, I think that would be great. So if anybody would like to remain for the presentation and discussions, you're welcome to do so, but we're going to move on with the agenda at this point, okay? Thank you so much for participating today.

[43:11] Alright, so moving on to the consent agenda. We have, the consent agenda approval of minutes from September 29th. the Parks and Rec updates and Parks and Rec Planning and Design. Scott, do you want to talk about anything on the consent agenda before we discuss? We have several items highlighted in there, and I guess I would just open it up for questions from Prad. I'm happy to address those, and we have several experts in the room that can talk as well, so any questions about it, we can… Well, let's start with a motion to approve the, consent agenda. Would anybody like to make a motion? Thank you. All right, let's open it up for discussion. Anything regarding the consent agenda? I can start, Thank you very much for the amazing presentation at Chautauqua Courts. I was there, and it was great, and it was really exciting, and it was just one of those moments in Boulder that felt so positive, and it's just an incredibly beautiful location, so I wanted to say thank you for that.

[44:13] I also signed up to distribute wreaths on December 13th, so thank you for putting that in the agenda. I'm really excited about that at Columbia. Do we have a date for Bill Bauer, when that park dedication will be? We are getting close to finishing it, but we don't have an exact date, just because of it. implement while other could occur, we'll be able to get that out pretty soon. Great. And then if you could just… if we could get an invite like you do when that happens, I would really appreciate it. And then my last point, was, is there any metrics of success as to how Ironwood is doing at Developcourse? Yeah, so I will say that, this was their first full season of operations, and with our lease agreement with Ironwood Drill, they will be providing us numbers here. They do provide numbers on a monthly basis, and so, we don't necessarily have a benchmark yet, other than what happens at other facilities, and this obviously is a unique operation, so I think year one will be kind of the benchmark moving forward.

[45:15] to measure success next summer. And we do feel like it was a very successful year for them, and we're hoping that these colder winter months, they're able to really be successful and continue to serve the community. Great. Thank you so much. Any other questions or comments on the consent agenda? Yeah, on Ironwood, we learned on Friday during the tour that there are significant concerns about the building itself, which is a new building. It seems like there's a lot going on there, and I don't think we need to talk about it tonight, but I'd love to hear more about it at a future meeting. Absolutely, we will add that to a future agenda, and we're very fortunate to have our partner, Kristen Sealy's, in the room, and she works in our facilities department, and she's been helping us resolve the minor issues that are going on at this point. Are they minor?

[46:07] You know, I think the building is operating and still functioning and serving the community, and so I would say that, however you want to determine that, but I think we're going to get them results as quickly as possible. Any other comments on the consent agenda? All right, so the motion in the second stands. Hearing no opposition, the consent agenda is approved. Thank you very much. No action items tonight, so we're moving on to… Matters for discussion. Thank you, Madam Chair and members of PRAB. Tonight, we have Jackson Haidt and Stacey Hoffman from our Business Services team that are going to be sharing a little bit more information about our 2026 fee schedule, as well as the communication plan for how we will, put forward this information and let the community know about changes to fees. So I'll turn it over to Jackson. Great, thanks, Scott.

[47:11] I'm Jackson Haidt, Senior Manager for our business services team. You're a secretary to Fearing About Budget, so I just want to say thank you. Quick presentation tonight compared to usual. Last Thursday, City Council formally approved the 2026 citywide budget. It's a little over $500 million, at the citywide level. The department's budget was about $40.8 million. This breaks it down by fund, what's in operating capital. I think this visual is what you're more accustomed to, and what we really like to show. This highlights, while it was a challenging budget year, we did see a very minor increase, and what I shared with you last month is Even though this is an increase, it does mean our dollars go not as far, just given the cost increases we've seen with labor, cost of materials, chemicals, you name it.

[48:00] But we are in a very fiscally constrained budget and have tried to make the most out of the, dollars that we have available. As part of the approval of the budget, we had planned on different key increases, and those were spread to different areas across the department. What we really did is we spent, the summer period to observe what our conditions were, and observe what that usage was, and that way we could minimize any fee increases. Recreation really functions on a volume-based business, where we do look at the fees, but also the volume of participants or individuals that we do serve. Back in 2023, Prabb had approved the fee policy. That's linked in the packet as Attachment A. And within the fee policy, I really like this diagram, where taxes really benefit, the programs that are community benefit, whereas User fees pay more of the individual benefit. This really ensures that the subsidy dollars that we do receive, the tax dollars that we do receive, are supporting those community benefit programs, where something that does have an individual benefit, the user is paying. That's the general philosophy the department has operated on, and then was formalized in the fee policy.

[49:15] And this really ensures that the services that we are providing are community benefit recreation, and we are acting like a country club. charging top dollar for every service and excluding individuals. So, really, as we went through to update our fees, some of our fees haven't been updated since 2012, as you've heard about with our court fees. Most of our fees were updated in 2023 or 2024 with the adoption of the fee policy, or then minor updates over time. We really do look at the benefit level as we look at each fee. We also do market comparison. Attachment C has a market rate comparison showing how we compare to other public agencies as well as private agencies. And this really focuses on our data-informed decision-making. I know that the fee schedule itself is very long, but this is really our thoughtful process to make sure that we aren't excluding anyone, and we are maintaining the services that we have, given the rising expenses. So,

[50:15] As was stated in the memo, most of the fee increases were less than 10%. I know that this can sound like a lot. When the fees haven't been updated for 2 years, and we have seen cost isolation, in the 5-8% per year, we were very conservative with the fee increases that were produced. I'll just pause real quick and see, are there any questions at this point? Okay, within the memo, we talked about different areas where there are fee increases. The golf course, the fee increases are really changing to better align with the market and support the course operations. What we found is that the golf course was operating, in the bottom half to bottom third of the market. Despite having some of the best views in town. So there are moderate increases proposed for, the green fees, and then there are other fee increases, across the board for, tournaments, passes, club rentals, cart rentals, buckets of balls.

[51:12] These were all in varying percentage amounts, just to make sure that we weren't doing a 10% across-the-board increase. The reservoir is another area where we do have increases. This really focused on a simplified fee structure. It aids people hosting picnics and special events out there. And then it maintains affordability for access. So, most of the site and rental fees remained unchanged. We do have, increased fees for a full facility closure. The example of a full facility closure is the Boulder Ironman or the, Boulder-Thon. Both shut down that facility for the entire day. Picnic fees really shifted to a per person, or a tiered package. Instead of paying per person, this really just helps the administrative burden up front. We can say these are our three packages, and instead of charging, each individual that comes in for a picnic, it really simplifies our operations.

[52:07] This also aligns with how we treat birthday parties, cabana rentals and shelter rentals, that it eases, administration. For rental rates, we've really tried to balance affordability, as well as just the cost recovery for indoor spaces. There were modest increases for, the different reservable spaces. And we really wanted to verify that this maintains an accessible space for community to host events if they don't have other opportunities to… or places to host them. Outdoor rentals were small increases. Outdoor rentals include everything from our shelter rentals in the parks to, individual spaces within parks. Indoor rentals, 4-10% increase. This is really the community rooms. At the different recreation centers that are bookable. And then aquatic rentals really refer back to, lane lines, the pool deck, and then the cabana rentals at Scott Carpenter Pool.

[53:07] I know that there's been a lot of discussion on courts tonight. This really has been shared with you since we started talking about the membership structure. All of the recommendations come back from the 2024 court. system, plan, and as Scott mentioned, we have not increased the fee since 2012, so it has been 14 years. The proposed rate is $10 per court per hour, and we really want to simplify this process with the new software, that it's a reservation for one person, but groups are able to split this however they see fit. The intention behind this is to have the, drop-in hours that are, continue to be free. If it's a first-come, first-served, that is also free. You are paying the $10 if you want a dedicated space at a dedicated time to. play your sport. And then with this, we do just want to remind the different investments that have occurred in the courts over the past few years. And then we do have different line items within the CIP for

[54:07] Courts improvements, as well as, different improvements at Tom Watson and East Boulder Community Park. So with this, really just wanted to go over our communication and outreach plan. Our focus is what's changing, who's impacted, and where to find information. If you've looked at our website, we have already updated all of our website with proposed fees for 2026. There will continue to be different information in our printed recreation guides. online media, whether that's our social media, the digital guide, all of our recreation management system or software where you make those purchases, and there has been targeted outreach to different user groups. We had… as of 2 weeks ago, we sent out emails to over 10,000 different customers. notifying them of what the changes are with the new software, as well as the proposed rate structure for 2026. And then with this, I think that our marketing team is really trying to make sure that the community is aware of this, and then what we can do to continue to promote our services. We offer seasonal promotions, we have a variety of discounts. We are really focused on making sure that our services remain accessible, and the financial aid

[55:17] Program is a pillar of that, with almost 15% of all access coming through financially at this point. That is really the high level. Scott, is there anything you wanted to add on communications? I don't think so. Yeah, I think we're doing our best to use a variety of communication methods. So, our digital newsletter that goes out to our members is now hitting about 55,000 community members, so that We do feel like we're getting the word out there, and our campaigns, we're starting to do a lot more paid, targeted marketing through Facebook and other social media, and that seems to be really, very well received. So, we're also focused, too, on trying to put as much in Spanish as well.

[56:01] And so, trying to translate materials for the community so that those with any kind of language barrier have full access as well. Thank you. So all of the proposed fees are listed in Attachment B. It's 15 pages worth. We didn't feel as if you wanted to go through line by line, and what had been as part of the presentation. We are able to answer any of the questions. Generally, we finalize these rules through the City Manager Rule. It's a codified process. Outside of codified fees, everything would get published in the daily camera for 15 days, there's a comment period, and then we would implement new fees. We've already started the process to implement the new monthly and annual memberships, with the new Recreation Management System, which goes live on November 14th. And then all the remaining fees would go into effect on January 1st, and that just aligns with our typical annual process, as far as when we have these fees go into effect. That is really it. I'm happy to answer any questions, and we do have several other managers around the right if there's questions on individual fees. Questions? I had a kind of question about the REC Plus membership. I mean, that seems to be a very significant increase.

[57:16] for, my understanding was that people who had just had a regular REC membership could use… So it increased by, what, for… Older adults, almost 50%. Have you received any pushback from that? Because it seems… But you might wanna… you know. you know, what people are saying about it. I would imagine the people who came here about Spruce Pool would probably be pretty upset about that. Yeah, so the reality is the Rec Plus is not the best option for most people. So when we did all of our research and analysis, right, we identified that less than 6% of our members actually used all three facilities.

[58:00] And getting that pass makes sense if you go to all of the facilities during their full operational seasons at least once a week. That's very rare, that someone's going to the rec center, the outdoor pool, and the reservoir every week. So really, most people, like the folks at Spruce, I actually talked to some folks with that exact use case, and so some of them use the rec centers During the winter, and they only use the outdoor pool in the summer. And so, like, a really great option for them is to get the rec center membership, do the one-time 3-month freeze on their pass during the pool season. Half… the outdoor pool pass only during that time, and then that basically, over that paying for a year, they're getting 15 months of the Rec Center access, because it's… because it's the 12 months they're using of it. So, it is more, but it's not nearly as much more as it looks like with the Rec Center Plus Pass. The Rec Center Plus Pass is a convenient

[59:05] Pass, and it's really not for the… not for most people. But it is a convenient item. Yeah, I would just want to remind Prabb, you've already approved the Rec Center changes to membership, so we're going to look at different promotional opportunities, and then with the communication, to be able to get that out there. We are also, still taking SilverSneakers and Renew Active this summer, and they will be available at the outdoor pools this summer, and we'll continue to look into things in the future as well. So yeah, that was my other question. So, SilverSneakers are third-party vendors. do pay for outdoor pools. Correct. Because you guys swipe, right? Correct. Okay. And then, Would we ever give consideration in the future to just a tiny incremental increase to, like, the rec center membership? Is there… is there a significant revenue if you were to increase, say, you know, the adult by $2 from $72 to $74? Or would that be mitigated by the, I guess, the objection to it? You know, it's really hard to say. It's almost this balancing act based on our financial aid, how many full-paying memberships we have, the third-party memberships, and market rates. And so.

[60:13] we really don't want to go too high on our memberships, and we want to keep centers affordable for everyone, so, I think we've hit a pretty solid, stable point of pricing for now that, I don't know… you always… increasing fees always… you risk the loss of members and people saying, I just don't want to pay anymore, and I'm going to back out. And so, it's kind of that balancing act, and I think that's where I turn to Megan and her team and our marketing team to really kind of make those recommendations based on what else is available in the community and where we're at, and I feel pretty good about our fees for 2026 and what we've presented to you all. Definitely. that membership. And then, one question about Silver Sneakers. Do they… do they pay a percentage, or is it a flat rate, so that if you were to increase for a seniors, say.

[61:06] would you get a higher reimbursement from SilverSneakers? They pay a flat rate and a fixed number of visits per month. So, for example, it's a small percentage of what our daily admission cost would be, and if a SilverSneaker member comes in you know, 20 days in a month, we will not receive payment reimbursement for those 20 days. It's… it's less than half of that. So we negotiate the terms with SilverSneakers and Renew Active. Unfortunately, there's not a whole lot of leverage there to, to be able to get a whole lot more out of the insurance companies. So… Thanks, Scott, appreciate it. I just wanted to make one correction, just in case I missed something, but you said again that we approved, but we don't approve. We just were reviewed and then gave feedback. Correct. Okay. I apologize. But I just, you know, we don't get to vote on this one, so…

[62:09] I'm curious, my question would be out of both. Why did you… it looks like it only went up $1? Depending on, weekend, weekday, and, 9 holes or 18 holes. So, that shifted based on, and we can… Jackson, I'm not sure if I have the key schedule pulled up in front of me, but, I will say that it varied based on the market and where we're at. So, for example. Weekend rates, did go up significantly for 18 holes, because we were very underpriced. But for 9 holes, we were closer to current market rates, and so we didn't increase as much for the 9-hole rate. Actually, it holds up right now, so, for the 18-hole weekend rate, it went from 53 to 63. I see that. So that was actually a significant increase for the weekends, and that's where the demand is. We know we're filling our T-sheets.

[63:06] And so, you know, we felt like that was the best decision for us to align with the market. So 9 holes went out, $1. For an adult, but then 18 went up. $8. Correct. Okay. And what we found is we are basically at market for the 9 hole, the 18 holes were under market, so this is an area where we don't just do a flat 5%, 10% increase to all fees. We really look at the market conditions and say. what our demand is, and then what is our business case. We know that on the weekends, most people want to play a full 18 holes, so it's balancing the supply and demand. Any other questions on fees?

[64:02] Okay, so these have all been put into the… onto the website, and into the program, and… All of the proposed fees are currently listed. We still need to go through the city manager rules, so we appreciate the feedback you have tonight. We'll begin that process, and the new fees would take effect on January 1. Actually, I do have one for you. It's not a fee question, I just noticed that the performance club rentals have been terminated. Is that… there's no way to use now? We used to offer two different levels of clubs, kind of a basic club rental, and then the performance level club rental. Based on demand, we're just gonna have… and we don't rent clubs very often, so it's just one set of clubs, or one level of clubs that we're gonna have available. There really hasn't been the need to have multiple levels of clubs. So… and they're all quality clubs at this point, so… Sure. Yeah. Thanks. I just wanted to make a note, and I've said this before when we did this last time.

[65:00] In the comparisons, you know, this is… we're pretty high. Under Colorado Athletic Club, but almost the same as the Y. And the Y, to me, would be the most comparable, because there's three… you know, Y's that you can choose from. And so I just wanted to note, before we do this again next year, that… I mean, when you look at the comparisons, we are already very high for our rec centers. Just wanted to make that note. And I think, as Megan went in strategizing about how we want to focus on encouraging people to buy a membership versus pay for a daily admission, it really… and we kept the punch pass option for folks, and so the punch pass is a little bit more affordable, and then we really want to encourage people to do the membership, and that's… Really getting very common in our industry to have a higher drop-in fee, but then really encourage people to come back and do that through purchasing a membership.

[66:04] Okay. Okay. I think, that's… Matters for discussion. And we are moving on. Wait, is there two in the agenda? Just matters from the department comes up next. Okay, matters from the department, we can move on to matters from the department. Perfect. Well, I'm gonna introduce, Mark Davison, our Senior Planning Manager, and with him here is Shihomi Kirigawa, and they are going to share with us some information about the Civic Area Concept Plan, along with our consultant that's happening virtual with us. Thank you, Scott, and I'll just pass it over to Shiomi.

[67:01] Good evening, Prav. I'm glad to be here again and see you after our tour of Civic area. I'm just pulling up our Zoom link now, and going to be… presenting. For Civic Area tonight. We are in Phase 2, as we mentioned on our tour. We reviewed a lot of the background of the project, so I'm hoping to make the background portion… Recording, rather. the background portion really quick and easy for us tonight, and then I'll be passing off, a deep dive into our concept plan and design, to our consultant, Rios. So, give me one more second, and I'll… I'm joining as panelists so that I can present. There we go.

[68:08] So, like I mentioned, we're here to talk about the civic area. I'll give you a brief, brief project background, and we'll just, preview the questions that we have for practice night on Phase 2. We'll talk about the key drivers of concept plan and do a deep dive, like I mentioned, into design. We'll also note what we think, is going into Phase 2. We're doing a lot of cost analysis studies, so we have recommendations For construction, and, like, to zoom in and sit on that with you all. To get feedbacks. Well, to get feedback, we'll go over next steps and, open it up for discussion. So, a quick preview on our questions that we'll be asking Prabh later. We'll go through the full presentation, and then we'll open it up to discussion. So, we'd like to have you, hold questions and comments till the end, but, does Prabh have feedback on the concept plan for civic areas, one of our key questions, as well as, does Prabh have feedback on the elements advancing into construction for Phase 2?

[69:15] So what you'll notice, I'll just mention, is that we've studied a larger area for concept plan, and then the recommendations for Phase 2, the boundary will shrink quite a bit, just considering the funding that we have for implementation. So, like I mentioned, we did a tour last Friday, and we oriented ourselves, but this is a site plan that helps outline Civic Area and where it sits at the heart of downtown Boulder. We're in between 9th Street and 14th Canyon in the north and Arapaho in the south, with the Boulder Creek running through it. We have influences and connections that we're looking at up and through Pearl Street.

[70:00] as well as up to the Hill and the CU campus, including that new development of the conference center. You'll notice The Arboretum connection that goes up, to that campus, and so that will be a key, a key feature that we'll look at tonight. I want to call your attention to, you can see our full site boundary that I mentioned here that's highlighted. One thing to note is in blue, Phase 1, open to the public in 2018, with creek restoration as well as new playground by the library. Highlighting and giving you a preview of what we think will be recommended for, construction for Phase 2, and when I keep saying potentially and what we think, it's because we're doing a lot of cost analysis currently, and we'll continue to do it all of 2026. So, we'll look at how that pans out, but we think this is a good boundary for recommendations of Phase 2. And then to note for Prabh, in yellow is what we call the East Bookend, and this is going to be a separate process that we are currently undergoing to look at redevelopment on this block. So that's the open surface parking lots behind the tea house, the storage and transfer building.

[71:16] and the atrium. Because that requires a development partner, we are considering that a separate process with a different timeline. So speaking of timelines, what we have in the star is where we currently are at the end of 2025, so we're just wrapping up concept design, and we'll be moving into schematic design, development, and construction documentation for 2026, so we have a lot more design to go. And we have a few more milestones with Grab and Council, so there's still time to give feedback, and then hoping in 2027, we will start construction on Phase 2. During some of that process, we will be overlapping with a maintenance operations safety and space activation plan. We're calling it a parks management plan, and I'll highlight that a little bit later in the presentation.

[72:13] So our flow diagram, took us from a kickoff in 2023. We studied, like I mentioned, that east bookend is a separate process, one that we reviewed with Council, and then the park at the core, a lot of all of the other rec improvements that we're looking at tonight, is a separate process. So, those two are on a completely different timeline, like I mentioned before, but you'll get to review both here tonight, and if you have any questions, let us know. But then, once again, hoping that construction moves into 2027. Okay, so let's start in the process of what got us to the concept plan and what the key drivers are.

[73:01] for the design, we in Parks and Rec always do a three-tiered approach, where we combine community engagement, research, and policy into all of our designs. And so, taking these key drivers forward, we have a lot of policy overlay for civic Area. It's key downtown location, and so what bullet points here is a lot of, citywide framework that guides our plan, as well as, Civic Area Park Plan from 2015 that Council approved. So, that's the main guiding document, as well as needing to align with all of these other policies, as well as adjacent efforts downtown. That's a lot. It is a lot. So it's a lot to juggle, but I think our team has done a great job. The key, note here is that from the 2015 Park Plan, Civic Area Park Plan, we have always had these seven guiding principles for design, and so that's the Civic Heart of Boulder, life, property, and safety, outdoor culture and nature, and so on. So we have, within the park plan itself.

[74:06] a lot to balance when we think about design, and so we've wrapped up a lot of these principles throughout the concept plan, and we'll definitely be looking at them for Phase 2. The community engagement was large and robust, spanned in 2 years. over three windows, that we went out to the community in a citywide effort. So, the first window, we went out and asked folks to dream big, asked about their values, and to tell us what they want to see in the future of Civic area. We came back in window two of the What we heard from you all, and came with two diagrams of all the programming designs and elements that people proposed to us. In Window 3, we took these two diagrams, or the long list of all of the programming folks wanted to see, and combined them and asked folks to prioritize what they would like to see in the concept plan, but as well as for phase two, what they'd like to see in the next construction phase.

[75:10] Throughout this process, we've had a very heavy equity-driven process. We used our REI, or racial equity instrument, throughout the process. We worked with two downtown community connectors. To help us design the equity process and the engagement process, making sure that we connected into very specific communities, a lot of our historically excluded groups. And we've also worked with a lot of the folks living with disabilities and had audit walks throughout this process. So here are some of the research or the technical analysis that went into the design, and I'm going to pass it over here to our lovely team, Rios. Abby Stone is online, and she can walk us through, some of the analysis, and then take us into design.

[76:05] Great. Thank you, Shahami. Can you hear me? Yes. Okay, great. I'm Abby Stone, I'm a senior urban designer with Rios, and we have had the pleasure of working closely with Boulder Parks and Rec on this project for the last few years. We're a multidisciplinary design firm. focusing on landscape, urban design, experience design architecture, with offices in Boulder and Los Angeles and a few other locations. I'm thrilled to be here, thank you for having me. So as Shihomi said, one of the first things our team did was dive in on research and analysis to understand the existing site conditions. So, we did a lot of research and listening to understand this very unique site, and everything that is there now and has been there in the past to help inform a really thoughtful design proposal for Phase 2. Some of our key ideas that we emerged from the research and analysis phase with to inform our design proposals.

[77:08] were first to, look at spaces where there's some disconnection, say, at the boundary or at key crossings, and find ways to create a more cohesively connected civic area. Secondly, to really embrace the spectrum from a more natural West End to a more urban and culture-focused East End. Next, to leverage the creek, which of course is this amazing asset that runs right through the site, and really lean into the ways that it can have different personalities at different spots. to create welcoming gateways, and throughout, to really find opportunities to celebrate and amplify what makes Boulder such a unique space in the country and the world. Next, please. In addition to those findings, one big takeaway that we left the analysis phase with was to find strategies that unify the whole civic area as the civic heart of Boulder.

[78:04] So, that's looking to cohesive and unifying design strategies that allow you to have a clear sense of arrival, so you know when you've arrived in the civic area, and you know that it's a special place. And throughout, to find ways to really amplify that sense of continuity and cohesion so that it all sticks together as a unique part of downtown Boulder. So with that, I'll dive into the concept plan. I'm going to go relatively quickly in the interest of time, but happy to come back and dive in on any areas there are questions about. So this is the site plan that our team put together with help from BPR and many community member inputs, to imagine the future of the civic area really building on all of the amazing things that are there now, and finding ways to amplify them to make this an even better space today and for future generations. Put it on the slide.

[79:00] To break this down and make this a little more digestible, we're going to talk about the site in four different zones. The west end, what we're calling Boulder Beach in the center, the east end towards the east, and then the Arboretum Path, which is also part of the site. Of course, in the end, we hope these would all feel like one continuous space, but for the sake of clarity, we'll just take them one by one. So first is the west end. As I mentioned before, this is meant to be at the more natural end of the spectrum as we move towards the west. So this will be a space that really amplifies nature immersion and a really more wild space to engage with the creek. So this could include enhanced native plantings. nature discovery or playful spots where kids and folks of all ages can play. Improved creek access, raised paths, and potentially even a new pedestrian bridge that makes it easier for folks to circulate throughout the whole civic area.

[80:00] This is a rendering of what that space might look like. This is on the south side of the creek. You can sort of look towards the library here. So you see here a boardwalk, which creates a really great walking path and also protects some of the plantings, and then opportunities for nature play, nature discovery, art, and other ways to engage with the creek. This. The second zone we'll talk about is the Boulder Beach, so that's a term that we all came up with to really talk about how these large central greens right at the creek's edge could be a really wonderful place to hang out, sort of like a beach, where they are spaces that, create flexible gathering zones, a place that community members can make their own for picnics or other events. And really be a natural and recreational hub for all of the civic area. So here again, we're exploring different ways to have enhanced creek access through things like an accessible shallow kid's creek, or a tubing eddy that makes it easier to get in and out of a tube. We're also looking at converting a large portion of the existing asphalt parking lot that's next to the library into green park space, which we think would be a really great amenity

[81:17] And really amplify the green at the heart of this park. As you probably know. Park Central and New Britain are planned to be deconstructed, and so there, we're exploring what could take their place in the form of new green space, things like a swing forest, and potentially a nature hub pavilion. This is pending some continued floodplain analysis, but ideally, this could be a structure that includes restrooms and is a great spot for various kinds of outdoor and indoor programming. So this is another rendering of, Boulder Beach. This is the south side, and you can see a potential nature hub in the distance, the existing bridge, and lots of people engaging with the creek in new and enhanced ways.

[82:10] And this, also in the Boulder Beach Zone, is a look on the north side. So here, you're seeing that we're looking at ways to make it easier to get down to the creek, and in this case, enjoy the really amazing views of the Flatirons in the distance, still amplifying lots of pedestrian and bike circulation through the site, but also craving spaces to sit and linger. What are we… what's the building? Is that Penfield Tate back there? This is Penfield Tate, that's correct. Tate, yep. And you can see the bandshell in the distance. Third zone is the East End. As mentioned, this is the more activated, more urban, you could say, end of the civic area, especially given, the Bandshell as a key cultural institution, and all of the buildings that are between 13th and 14th. So here, one of the key things we were looking to do was make sure this could be a great place for the farmer's market, and in fact, support an enhanced and enlarged farmer's market, since we heard so consistently that that was really a beloved feature of the civic area.

[83:13] So, to that end, we're looking at transforming 13th Street into a pedestrian-first festival street. So, it would still be drivable for deliveries and emergency access. But the majority of the time would be closed to vehicles, so it's pedestrian first with still bike opportunities. And we think this would be a really exciting way to expand the park space and really connect those existing historic landmarks, like the atrium, T-House, S&T building, with the park. On both sides of 13th Street. Here, we're also exploring different ways to enhance the bandshell in its current location. As we've heard, this is a really beloved feature, but could be improved to become a better venue to host a range of different kinds of events.

[84:00] Pending, how much funding is available, there are lots of different ways that you could amplify the bandshell as a venue. I'll also note we are showing this expanded flexible green, which is the sort of land bridge that Shihomi was talking about. This, as shown, would cover, a relatively small portion of the ditch between Broadway and 13th, and leave it exposed next to the tea house and onwards. And as Shahomi mentioned, the hope here is to really get a lot of benefit by having a much larger, expanded green space that connects south and north of the ditch, and makes a more cohesive park. That said, we are also currently looking at different options here. You could have a larger land bridge, but then leave some of the ditch exposed in the center, of Central Park, so we're continuing to explore that right now. Lastly, I'll just note, we're looking at things like, the porch, which is the seating area, and amenities like a splash pad and nature play, which have been extremely popular with community members.

[85:06] And I would just like to add, Abby here, the reason why we have East End highlighted, just a note again, that these are the improvements that we're looking for, Phase 2. So, 13th and West to Broadway is where we're looking for implementation and seeing what our funding can really cover. Yes, please. Can you just show us where the ditch is, just so we know? Yeah, so the ditch and the head gate starts here, so a portion of it will remain open. We're looking at land bridging right in here, because again, it expands the lawn, it has continuous circulation in this area. We have an expanded farmer's market, pavilion and plaza, as well as splash pad, nature play, a lot of, youth play in this area that we get. Oh, I thought they were… I thought when y'all were talking about a new land bridge, it was that little…

[86:01] Going over the… Right here? Yeah, where it says new bridge, is that not what we're talking about? No, we're actually talking about a bridge right in this portion, so if you notice, the head gates start here, and then we have a portion of park. And then the ditch opens up and continues at the tea house, like it's always existed. Right, okay. Oh, okay. So we are looking at, connectivity, too, to, these two developments, the stand and Riverside, just because they're sort of on an island. We're consistently trying to look at, connecting circulation throughout the space because it's very chopped up. So, this is a rendering of that festival street, along 13th, where we're exploring different ways to make this a really special gathering spot and very pedestrian-friendly. So, that could include shade, overhead lighting, new paving.

[87:01] Art in various forms, such as on the ground or in other kinds of installations. Porch seating, as mentioned, so that there's really great seating that allows for amplified views of the Flatirons. Always also trying to take advantage of some of the amazing existing heritage trees in this area, and protect them and allow them to keep providing much-needed shade. And this is, the same view, but shown with a farmer's market. So, obviously, the intent here is to make this space function really well for the farmer's market, but also wonderfully for everyday activities and also other kinds of events. So, lastly, Zone 4 is the Arboretum Path. So, here, our… our goal is to create a welcoming, dynamic, multimodal path, and really amplify what is currently a somewhat underused space, and make it a really great artery that connects the civic area up to the new CU Conference Center and the Hill and beyond.

[88:04] So, this could include, diverse gardens along the way to make this a really green and beautifully planted walkway and bikeway. This could include an elevated boardwalk and viewing tower, which I'll show on the next slide, to, in key areas, separate pedestrian and bike circulation, and also provide a special viewing moment so that you can take advantage of the great views. Youth-oriented gathering spaces, especially given how close this is to Boulder High. Distinctive lighting has been a really important idea here, because we know it can get rather dark at night, so we're looking at that as an opportunity for placemaking, and also to make it feel more safe. And then throughout placemaking and storytelling, through signage and other educational elements. So this is a rendering that shows how, in key spots, we think it would be really great to separate bike and pedestrian circulation and make it feel really safe and comfortable for everyone, and also that viewing tower I mentioned, which could be a really unique feature, a special place to have, for example, an outdoor class, but then also just provide great views on an average day.

[89:16] I'm struggling just… The Arboretum path, where does it cross? Canyon? Yeah, it crosses, Arapahoe at the south, so I can go back and… point out, right in here, this is Arapahoe. Yeah. And then if I go back up. Here's the Arboretum, connecting over Arapahoe and into the East End. So, Boulder High School. So, right next to Boulder High School. Exactly. Got it, okay. And there's just… this track and field, as well as… Okay, thank you, I don't know why I was just really struggling orienting myself. It's a common comment we got at a lot of the community engagement events, which just shows how important it is to amplify the Arboretum's presence. A lot of community members, didn't know what it was.

[90:05] So, this is a view that shows some of that experiential lighting, which we think, as mentioned, could be really great placemaking, but also really important for usability, and also showing some of the different kinds of enhanced plantings and specialty gardens that could, you could explore as you walk or bike along the Arboretum. I'll pass it back to Xiaomi. to the boardwalk, is that where people would bike on? So this portion, we're looking at either pedestrian only, or potentially a multi-use trail. This is back behind the track, field and track, and so it'll go up to Grandview. So we're still studying multiple options. Yeah, I think that part is just… it's always so tricky, like, this whole area, has a lot of bikes, and runners, and then pedestrians, and Right now, everyone kind of is trying to share the same space, but yeah, it's a challenge. It is a challenge, and about 35 feet of grade change, too, makes it a pretty tricky subject.

[91:12] Okay, so, Connecting this all together, we talked about the importance of unifying the space in multiple ways, whether it's circulation, bikes, pedestrian, safe routes, and unifying green spaces. And we're also looking at an art history and cultural story walk. So we know in this area, we have the Tate Building, the Bandshell, a lot of key landmark buildings. We have a lot of stories in this area that we would like to highlight, that we heard from the community, to please acknowledge, celebrate, and honor. And so we're looking at how does a story walk loop its way around and through the park? Potentially working with our other key departments to connect up into Pearl Street, knowing that there's a lot of history there, and taking that all the way down and through the Arboretum. So the Arboretum could be a big key placemaking, not only connection, but, an opportunity for art and wayfinding, as well as, telling the story of

[92:13] Pat? So let's move into recommendations for Phase 2 implementation. So what you saw was the full concept plan, what we studied with the community. Now, knowing that the project funding can only spread so far, you'll see how we have analyzed our recommendations for Phase 2 funding. One of those key drivers, again, going back to community engagement. For Window 3 specifically, one of our questions to community was to help us prioritize, the program they came up with and what they see next for, construction. And so, Phase 3 included all of what you see here with the events. Each window included a very similar number of events.

[93:00] We worked with the high school, we worked with CU, we had a lot of events across the city, including 5 different pop-ups that were located at our libraries and our rec centers to get feedback, as well as an online questionnaire. So, after going out for the citywide questionnaire and gathering all the voices, from across town. We landed on what we heard was priority for the community, so you can see how the different features or programming shake out. I'm specifically going to focus on, sort of, the top five, so from the Nature Hub or restrooms on up to the Boulder Beach, you can see where a lot of folks got really excited to see investment. and how that shakes out over the plan. So, everything in pink is still, again, those top five, what people wanted to see in Phase 2. You can see that a lot of comments, a lot of excitement across the plan, but again, knowing that we had to really look into what was feasible for construction in terms of the phasing, the timing, and the funding.

[94:12] We also took into account a lot of these comments are sort of, coalescing around the East Bookend and, the Central Park area. So… What we looked at for recommendation… is the pink area that includes 13, so that plaza improvement for expanded farmers market, a lot of the park enhancements in Central Park, as well as looking at storytelling moments and key gateways and wayfinding opportunities around and throughout the rest of the park. We did do a study on Phase 1, what's working, what's not. On what we've already built. And what was open to the public, and we heard a lot of feedback on more wayfinding, more opportunity, specifically, too, as it related to, the infrastructure community really appreciated the 11th Street Bridge that we put in, connecting the hill up to Pearl Street, and just having that be elevated with wayfinding, so that folks know where it is and how to get across the creek.

[95:19] So, a lot of those programming elements in the pink include the nature play that you saw at Central Park, water play, expanded farmer's market, like I mentioned, lighting and shade opportunities along 13th Street, the porch seating that we discussed, the expanded green lawn, and how we're connecting the park together again, and like I mentioned, wayfinding and signage. Also, continuing to study restroom opportunities in this area in Central Park. For Phase 2 space activation, again, we got a lot of feedback, folks excited, specifically on Wildwoods. So, if you don't know Wildwoods, it is a installation and pop-up that we did, this summer, and so a lot of great feedback in that, installation and pop-up that we did for Nature Play, so more for families and, farmers market folks.

[96:14] folks who are looking for a seat and outdoor dining. We heard similar feedback that folks would like to see, possibilities for pop-up installation for the Boulder Beach. And then, interim enhancements and improvements along Arboretum. So those we will continue to study for space activation. And then, recommendations for future study, because this is tied to our, Park Central and New Britain. buildings that Abby previously mentioned. We'll continue to study the floodplain, the high hazard, and what's possible at this corner. This is pretty closely tied to the western city campus, and so what happens when staff move out of those buildings? We need to just coordinate and make sure that our studies are, in line with what happens with those buildings and moving to our new campus.

[97:11] Isn't that… again, I'm sorry, I don't know what's wrong with my brain today, but isn't that Mustard's Last Stand? So, Mustard's Last Stand is in this location as well. Okay. I feel Tade's on the corner above. And Tate is, yes. And Mustard's Last Stand is owned by the city? The building? The building is owned by the city, yes. So, like I mentioned previously, as we're looking to the improvements and full build-out of this very key downtown space in which we're, closing in on making it more and more activated, more and more vibrant, a zone where everybody wants to come, they feel safe, they feel welcome. We are also working on a park management plan, so that talks about taking care of what we have, looking at a maintenance manual, an operations strategy. We're looking at space activation in the area, how do we continue to build on what we have.

[98:09] As well as improving and supporting social behavior, so thinking about, the different programming around our rangers, feeling, safe and secure, and working with our other departments around the city to make sure the space is maintained and safe. All of this will wrap up into a total cost of ownership for us, and so always thinking about what the cost implications of these new improvements will be, as well as looking at how the park is going to be managed in the future. Okay So, that's next step. So, that wraps up the majority of the information. I know that was a lot. I just want to note for you all, like I mentioned again, in 2026, we'll move into schematic design, so that will just mean we'll get really detailed on what is the material, what are the sections.

[99:01] what are the heights and widths of everything, into design development and eventually construction documentation. We will, for 2026, move through a park renaming and branding effort. So Civic Area was branded by an outside consultant at one time. We've heard from the community, not a lot of folks use the Civic Area, or the branding, or know what we're talking about when we say Civic Area, so I think this is a wonderful, lovely opportunity to bring in youth to help, reimagine what the name could be. We'll then do a final share-out of what we learn and what happens during the renaming and branding effort, as well as the final design for Phase 2 implementation in 2026. So we will be back in, 2026 to share all that out with you, including Council. 2027, we hope construction begins. We have a lot of work to do in between now and then, and like I mentioned before, we are continuously working on a parallel effort for the management plan, how we're going to manage Phase 2, but then, building on that and full build-out, looking at the future of full build.

[100:10] Hold up. So… That was a lot, and now I can open it up for questions and feedback. I'll just pop our questions up to Prabh, and, why don't we start with the first one? Generally, is there any, question feedback on the concept plan overall for Civic Area? And I can go back to any slide that you would like. Yeah. I was just curious, I saw, like, in some of the renderings, is there gonna be, like, a protected area in the creek where the water movement as calm. It looked like people were down there, and, like, kids could be actually in it. Yeah, so I would say we are studying that continuously for the Boulder Beach, and I might just dip all the way back.

[101:03] So, what we're looking at is how to create shallows and pull some of the creek back up and into green space, so that there's safer places for all different age groups, all different abilities to reach the water, and working with our water resource team on that as well. Gotcha. Very inviting. As far as the, ditch, I'm no design expert, so I already apologize for Rios. Is there a way to put something over it where you can, like, see through it? Like a grid with, like, a real thick type of… translucent material. You could work with our design team, actually, because they're, studying a similar option to that. So, we're looking at, potentially making the land bridge even smaller, and looking at some smaller hanging bridges that kids can sort of walk over the ditch, experience it from above.

[102:05] And really look down on it, as well as, this panel right here that's a little bit more opaque in about circulation. I like that much. I mean, I think… I just sent you a picture of the ditch, since you were asking me about it. Oh, you did? I just think it's such a unique, cool feature to have in the park. I would hate to spend money to cover it up. I think it would be better served to leave it open and just put one or two bridges across, to make the two parts of it accessible. And if it's a matter of the foliage that's been growing out of there. blocking the view, I think that's just a matter of maintenance, you know? Because you're going to take it all out anyways. So, I mean, if you're going to cover it, I'm assuming you're going to take it all out, so… I just feel like if we were looking to use our money efficiently. Trying to pipe all that water, and…

[103:03] it just seems like… and I just think it would be a shame to lose that feature, is my opinion on Ditch. Anymore, unless somebody else has… I don't want to memorize it. Oh, well, I… I just… it looks wonderful. I think my question is more about how we can afford it. How are we paying for it? Where is the money coming from? Is this CCRS, kind of? This is CCRS stuff, yes. So, that's why there's limitations, I assume. That's because we have a pot of CCRS money, hopefully we get it renewed. And so we're looking at… just using CCRS money. There's not other pools of sources for funding that we're looking at? Not as of now, because CCRS sort of, takes into account public improvement, it's sort of a pool, for specifically, the public good, and so we find that it's, it's a pool of, cross-city departments.

[104:03] Is there, any… potential, collaboration with these, what do you call it? The movie festival folks. Sundance. Sundance, yes. Yes, there is potential collaboration, and we're definitely open to it. We know that, Sundance and a few of our departments, working on the Sundance… with the Sundance team are going through negotiations now, so when they're ready, we think that we have a really great space that there's opportunity for, so maybe those bridges could be called the Sundance Bridges. Sundance Institute. And it's fair to say, isn't it sure we would look for partners to work with, like CU on the Albarium path, and also grant funding opportunities, who's the grant coordinator in the department. He's doing a really good job investigating that. In the packet, it said that

[105:02] your reviews, and I don't know if I just read it wrong, but it said. something like, that we were going to use the CCRS tax, and then something about debt. So we're not bonding for this, we're just using the funds? Okay, for that. So it said CCRS, we're using CCRS 25 through 27 debt. What does that mean? In 2026, there will be debt issuance to bond against this project, to give us all the money up front. Generally, how we've used CCRS in the past is paying for it as revenues are collected. What we've realized is with all of the other CCRS-based projects going on at the same time. Kristen Fire Station 24 East, fleet. Fleet. There's too much for us to pay for it as we go, that this is one of the projects that we would bond against to… be able to pay for it up front. And then you pay it back over a short amount of time? Correct. The interest payments are kept for the duration of the CCRS. CCRS currently expires in 2035, on the November ballot next week. Voters have the option to extend that with no sunset date.

[106:16] Right, but I mean, like, the… because the way that it was written in the packet, I just want to make sure I understand it. It says that you'll be using the funds from CCRX from, like, CCRX from, like, 25 to 27, and then after 27, it gets paid back. Correct. We would pay it back between 27 and 2035, is the intention. Okay. I think it looks amazing. Very aesthetically pleasing presentation, I have to say. I had a question about the Festival Street. Do you envision that, obviously, when the farmer's market's not there, as a dismount zone for bikes, or would that be still open to, like, pedestrians and bikes to get through the canyon? Yeah, it's a great question. We are studying now how bikes in PED would move through, 13th, so that would still be a designated

[107:02] bike route. Now, when festivals, farmers market, and or other festivals come in. We're still looking at how connections can be maintained north-south as well as east-west. You did go to the… And we did go to our Transportation Advisory Board just a few weeks ago, and sort of discussed, some of these studies that we're working on. Thank you. Yeah. Is that area still being considered for 360… 5-day-a-year indoor farmer's market? The atrium? Yeah, so while we embark on our, separate process for East Bookend, we are looking for a partner and We are working with the farmers market, on our side to find them a permanent home within the East Bookend, and so we are still looking at that as an option and continuing to study it.

[108:01] That's Phase 3, though, right? This is a completely separate process. I'm confused a little bit about Zone 3 versus Phase 3, because we're talking about Phase 2. That's a good question. So let me… let's see if I go back to the… Front path of this presentation. Here we go. Okay, so Phase 2 is in the pink, and this is what we're talking about for construction. The P3 process is currently happening now. And so, this is probably a long lead process, so it will be a future phase of construction, but it will be, hopefully in partnership with a developer. Okay. Because Phase 1, you show, opened in 2018, but when Rios did the presentation, they were showing activations in Phase 1. Would that be included in what we're talking about now? Like, about the $18 million, or is that different?

[109:00] Yeah, so part of Phase 2 is looking at wayfinding opportunities, so signage and gateway opportunities, just to move people around easier through the space. That's a good question. So Phase 2… Phase 2 is really kind of everything, but focused, right, in Zone 2. I would say Phase 2, majority of the improvements are going to be in pink. There are very specific spots where we're looking at signage throughout the park. And I think what's… I just realized this wouldn't fix this, but the P3 looks like Phase 3, but it's a public-private partnership. We can fix that. Okay. I have a question about engagement, and there's a reference to historically excluded groups. What are those? So that included a lot of different groups that we spent time with outreach and engagement. It was anywhere from different racial backgrounds. To, people living with disabilities, to youth.

[110:02] We're usually excluded in a lot of public processes, so that we're… that's sort of our main, audio engagement. We also did two stakeholder, events with organizations from around the city that also included, our LGBTQ plus communities, our Downtown Boulder Partnership, business groups, so a lot of different folks in there. And I know that you segregate them out in some, like, with respect to the DIT, so 7% of historically excluded groups approved. The ditch proposal, So how did… how did you aggregate those, or how did you arrive at that? Is there a number assigned to that, or is it a percentage of people that voted? Yeah, we waded through a lot of data, through everything that we collected from the questionnaires. the six-plus events that we showed, the five different pop-up locations, so we waded through a lot of that. And then on the questionnaire and also in-person events, we try and take demographic information if we can. So not everybody, opts in to filling that out, but I think we got a really good,

[111:19] A really good look at, some demographic information this time. Okay, thank you. And then, with respect to the ditch, did Landmark's Board weigh in on that, or have they? Yeah, so it got brought up at Landmark's Board, but because this area went into, a historic district application, that was then voted down by Council. The, ditch is not considered, historically landmarked or historically, significant, so the landmark board has no purview over it. Okay. But it is technically historical, just not labeled. Right, right. That's interesting. Thank you. Yeah. I'll, Caroline took my point about 13th Street, so thank you for bringing that up. I have the same question.

[112:06] On the ditch, this board recommended against landmarking the ditch, along with the rest of the park a couple years ago. Stand by it, I think it's… Why? will… the conversation at the time was not just about the pitch, it was about the entire park. Our feeling, the board's feeling at that time was, Landmarking it would make this process more difficult, would make it more difficult for us to implement changes to improve the functionality of the park. I stand by the decision, with unanimous at the time. I also, I will take the counterpoint on the ditch. It's a piece of infrastructure, it moves water, that's very important to our farmers and whomever uses the water downstream. But seeing the layout here showing me you and the team did a great job of showing us what this could look like. It's clear that the park will have a lot more open area and circulate much better without the ditch there. Right now, it's… It's, it's a, it's a barrier between, basically that divides the property in half.

[113:06] there's a major water feature mere feet away. I don't think that we're, like, losing the opportunity to talk about water, have people contemplate water, look at water. And, like, it looks… to me, this is a much more contiguous Recreation opportunity that lets people move through the site much more organically than they are currently able to do. And I have one other point, I just… the… Arboretum Path. I think, first of all, I don't think anyone knows it's called that outside of this room. I'm glad to see you're getting some focus. I think it's a missed opportunity. Thank you. And then you've pointed out that mustard's last stand, but then it's not highlighted in your… First slide there that you… that's not… No, yeah, there's just Swinging gardens, but in the one with the colors, the Phase 1, 2, and 3?

[114:04] It's not highlighted at all. Let me go… Back. Yeah, so, This is probably to your point, and then Mark, clarifying some of these labels. So, the reason why, we're moving forward with some of the improvements for Phase 2 now is because we can implement them right away. Yeah. These two buildings we don't have highlighted because they're so tied to the development of Western City Campus. So, Western City Campus would have to be constructed, completed. opened. then, staff would have to move out of these buildings, and then we would have to deconstruct. So all of this is a several-year timeline, so this is a future phase. And we are working directly with the owners of Mustards at this point? Yes. you know, 6 to 12 months. You gotta save mustards. I have a question regarding the St. Julian and their expansion. They were talking about, a walkway

[115:07] that goes across. Have you, engaged with them to create more connectivity with Pearl Street? Yes, so in our 2015 park plan, I believe it outlines some kind of connection between Civic and St. Julian. So that is an option that we'll be coordinating with them in the future. With them, with Sundance coming in, as well as an opportunity for either a downtown development district in this area, or an urban renewal authority. I think there's a lot of opportunity to look at some of those connections. Thank you. I have two more questions. the engagement that Michael brought up, So, all of the engagement for, like. As an example, the 67% approved of

[116:00] of removing the ditch. That all came from your five in-person engagements sessions. And online questionnaire. There was an online questionnaire, okay. And did that get sent out, or did people scan a code at the… They could scan a code on one of our five pop-up locations, or answer the question there at the five pop-up locations, scan a code. At any of our events, or answer in person at any of our events, and then the questionnaire was posted to our, project website. Okay. And we did a mailing list. And how many people participated? You know, I would have to get you those final numbers, I'm not sure off the time. Okay, and then the last question is, when you talked about removing some of the parking at the library, how many spots would you remove, and how many spots would remain? Oh, that's a good question. Abby, do we know those numbers? I don't remember them offhand, so I… let me look it up, but it's somewhere in the range of going from 300 to 150, but I'm gonna double check it. Give me one second.

[117:07] And just to be clear, Jenny, we're looking at parking across the civic area. So, you know, just looking to remove it directly from the library and do nothing else, so we're thinking of ways to balance it all. Yeah, when we say… we don't mean remove parking, we mean to say relocate, so we are looking at what it would be to relocate. And then specifically, so if we're relocating parking from the library. Can it go on one of the bookends? And so, thinking about, specifically East Bookend, is there opportunity for a district-wide parking strategy for civic area The farmer's market. and adjacent, needs around the city in this area. And that would be a multi-level garage? Yes. doing one on the west end also, right? The 2015 park plan shows opportunity for either work end. Okay.

[118:00] I overshot it. What we're showing is relocating 71 parking spaces and keeping 107. And that's partially because we're able to make what you're seeing here a slightly more efficient footprint. So even though we're taking away about half of the asphalt, you're keeping more than half of the parking stalls. And again, because this is tied to a parking garage and also, New Britain, Perk Central, this whole area we are looking at for a future phase, so this wouldn't happen in Phase 2. This is sort of in out years. The 2015 park plan approved by Council actually showed, a 30-year vision where all surface parking on Canyon and Arapahoe Railway with you. So this is sort of an interim, how do we do it over time? Are there any questions? I just want to make sure with our second bullet on…

[119:04] What's moving into Phase 2 for recommendation? for construction. The only question I have on that is that earlier when we talked about this, like, in the spring, we'd said something like. we thought maybe it would be done for Sundance, and… but then you weren't going to escalate time frame to do that, but now it looks like it won't even start until after Sundance. Most likely, it might need to start after Sundance, and that's because as we zeroed in on some of the improvements. that we'd like to enhance for 13th. Even the bandshell, so much of this is in the high hazard that we have to go through a very lengthy federal process with FEMA to change, a lot of the floodplain. In the high hazard boundary. So, 27. That's okay. Any other questions? Can I suggest just 5 minutes before we get into rec centers? Is that okay? We can stretch and we'll get to Mayor?

[120:07] All right, so then let's get back… let's come back at 8.06. It's not all these onions anymore.

[125:09] All right, what are the matters from the department? B. Rec Center. All right, thank you, Madam Chair and members of Pratt, appreciate you hanging with us tonight. We are really excited to share some information this evening about our Recreation Center, needs assessment, and so… We have several city staff here, and our consultants that are here to share a little bit about the process, of gaining feedback and conducting, going through the needs assessment. So. There's a lot to talk about. They've got a short presentation that are planned, so I'll let them do quick introductions, and hand it over to Megan. So I'll start us off, Megan Lobin, Recreation Manager, and I'll pass it this way, and then we'll go all the way through. Charlotte O'Donnell, I'm a city planner with our Parks and Recreation staff.

[126:03] Bob Gibson, Project Planning Manager. Alex Webster from Perkins & Will. Kristen Seeley, Project Manager for Facilities and Fleet. And so, you know, lucky for you all, I'll be talking most of… most of today, but then I'll… everyone's here to help answer questions, because I know there's a lot of questions. And with that in mind, So, the purpose of this presentation, we've previously brought to the board how we've gone through the process of the needs assessment, everything of that nature. The purpose today is to make sure you're all familiar with the findings from the needs assessment that you've been provided. Okay. And so… we're gonna really quickly go over the project overview, some of that process, and the inputs to that, but we really want to spend most of the time looking at the findings, and then allowing you to ask questions about that. And so, as we go through,

[127:00] I would just say, as many questions that you can hold till the end, we will answer some of your questions, I'm sure, through the presentation, and I think just for the interest of speed and efficiency, unless there's an understanding component or something, wait to talk about the actual needs from the assessment till the question portion. And so, just really quickly, the whole purpose of this project was that we… we know that all of our rec centers are aging, we have this funding identified to renovate the East Boulder Community Center, and we said, hey, maybe we should pause and make sure we're looking at a whole system of what we have. We know we have aging facilities, we want to be smart about this. So the idea of this Rec Center, the future of the Rec Center's project and this needs assessment is to help inform not only the renovation at East, and so you'll notice this needs assessment dives in a little bit more specifically to East, and then says general recommendations beyond that.

[128:00] It's also gonna help us inform the Fund Our Future project that's happening in this… across the city. And just a reminder, in any of our planning processes, we use this same approach to form recommendations. So, the inputs, policy, right? So we have climate initiatives, we have lots of goals in the city that we have Put forward through policy, or that's our community through formal processes saying this is important, right? We also have best practice research across the industry, and of course, what does our community want? So we use those things to all really guide what are our recommendations in the needs assessment. And of course, we want to put that through our lens of, does this help us meet our overarching goals, as you can see in, like, the sustainability, equity, and resilience framework. Oh, my name… there it goes.

[129:00] And just so that we're all on the same page of understanding, this is… this is where we are today. We have… three main rec centers, they're all really great community hubs, and over the last 50 years, they've really developed their own personalities, and they meet different community needs. Our East Boulder Community Center has an AgeWell Center, the South Boulder Rec Center is really a neighborhood anchor, and a big sense of community in that space, and North has, gymnastics, right? It's… they all have their own little flavor. And so, as we're looking at the needs across the whole system. We want to think about what could these facilities be in the future. So, of course, yes, we have funding for the East Boulder Community Center, which is great, we can do something, right? But we also have used some of the inputs of this information already to make investments, like the ones we've just made in the South Boulder Recreation Center, that's going to help extend that life of the building to give us time to think about

[130:01] How we move forward with the whole system more strategically. And, of course. we've identified the need for short-term payers at the North Boulder Recreation Center as well, or renovations to extend the life of that building, or so we have time to figure out what exactly is next. And of course, there's always more things that the community is interested in, and so we have this kind of placeholder for this process of, okay, what could we maybe not fit at these locations, and is there a need for another location if the… if the community's willing to pay for it. So that's kind of a potential out there, this process. And so, when we go out to the community with community engagement, we start really broad and just get values alignment, and then we narrow through that process so that we can get a little bit more specific. with the engagement information, what we're looking for. And so…

[131:01] what that kind of looked like through this process is that we have our priority populations that we did focus groups for, right? We wanted to make sure we amplified some voices that we don't always hear from, or they might not be as well represented in some of our other engagement strategies. So, we kind of do this first to get an idea of what do we make sure we are paying attention to through engagement. And then, we do stakeholder engagement. So we did this really fun game night. We had about 100 people that we identified across a bunch of different stakeholder groups. to try to get a really good representation of the community. And we… we came in, and we played a game, and we said, hey, what… what do we want at these recreation centers, or what could we add? And so we had a lot of fun. And through that game night, we came up with this visual representation of the overarching community feedback, which we'll touch on again here soon. But what's really cool about doing this this way is we were able to use this graphic and then post it back in our rec center so that we could expand our touches with the community, and we did dot voting.

[132:07] So, yes, we couldn't invite everyone to game night, but we did make sure that we were incorporating everyone's feedback through the process in different ways. And so, when we heard from the community what is most important to you, these are really the top these are the top priorities that the community's like, this is really core to what we need, or additions of what we need here in Boulder, right? And so, of course, that's… Fitness spaces, gymnasiums, aquatics, mindfulness and wealthfulness, activity spaces for youth, and where we want to expand services, we also talk about potentially doing that through partnerships. And then, so when you look at those kind of core from the community priorities, and then what we can and could be offering across all the spaces, we identified what the core needs are for our rec center. So these core needs, you can kind of think of them as these are the things that we… it'd be great to have at all of our locations, or at multiple locations, okay? And the additional amenities and

[133:20] the report. These are more of the things that are… these are… it would be nice to have one more of these across the system. Or, maybe we want one walking track in one of the centers, but we don't necessarily need a walking track in every single rec center, as an example. So that's kind of the difference when you're reading the report from the core amenities, where we want to have multiple across the system at multiple locations. Versus maybe one would be fine, or just one more than we have now across the system somewhere. And then, just a reminder that what is in this needs assessment, right? This is the end of our Phase 1 of the Future of Rec Centers project.

[134:02] then will help us inform the project that's funded at the East Boulder Community Center, what ultimately goes there, and then also what we ask for through the Fund Our Future process. Okay, and that's actually the whole presentation, so now you… the rest of the time is for questions. No! I know! Let's buckled in. I know, I was like, There's not a lot to ask questions about in that presentation. Oh, sorry, you want… we can go back to any of the pages. Yeah, I guess I can. I mean, I have a… I have a fundamental question. Yes. So, a couple of times in some of the slides, you said, aquatics is designated as core. And not necessarily all RECs have to have all core. And, you know.

[135:06] I can't remember, there was another thing you said that makes me think that maybe we're not… I want to make sure we're all from talking I don't want to assume anything, is what I'm trying to say. Are… is there any vision where South Boulder Rec Center is not going to have a pool? I think that it's too early to say anything definitively about what could happen at the South Boulder Rec Center, because we haven't done the targeted community engagement for that location yet. We also do not have funding or have done the technical site studies that would be needed to determine if a pool is feasible, how much it would cost to put a pool at that site, specifically with, like, high water table and some other issues. on that site. So it would go… if funding was identified, it would go into its own dedicated design process, and we would be answering those questions like that at that time, so… But at some point, though, we have to decide, based on the feedback we got from Reimagine South Boulder and from others across the whole city, the system was that

[136:08] Aquatics is core. Are we… is that a priority? And as one board member, I think it is a priority to keep South Boulder with an aquatics facility, and the reason is, we saw in the assessment that we need more, in fact, right? That was pretty much the outcome, that what we have now is not enough. And so, if we took away the South Boulder aquatics, then we're impacting not just South Boulder residents, just all the people that come use it, or the people who, if it were not to be there, would be flooding east and north, and so that problem statement that we don't have enough swimming lanes is only going to be exacerbated if we don't have aquatics at South Boulder. So, to me, that's sort of table sticks. It needs to happen. From speaking as one board member. what I'm concerned about is… there's multiple things, and I don't… I'm not gonna try… I'm gonna try to be quiet here and let others ask questions.

[137:04] But what I'm concerned about is, I know we have $53 million that the voters said, yes, we can use. We need to, dedicate funds to EAST, we want it to be maintained well, we want to make sure it's modern, it's energy efficient, all those important things, and I'm 100% feel that, yeah, I'm glad we did that, that's great. Now we have money to do that, so we don't let it get to the disrepair state that we allowed South Boulder to get to. So, I'm fine with that, and I'm thrilled that we have the money. What I don't want to get to is, just because we have $53 million. we need to spend $53 million, because we have, for example, I heard during the tour, there was overflow on the, the gym, or sorry, the weight room, too many people are working out in the hallway, that's what I heard one challenge was, so we need more space. I also heard another challenge is we need two additional lanes to address some of these indoor assessment issues, right? The need for more pools, I heard that.

[138:08] And then I also heard that the envelope of the East Boulder Rec Center is not energy efficient. I hear that as well, although I do have questions about that. So I understand that there are challenges with East Boulder, and we want to tap that $53 million, some portion of it, to do some of those basic things. But what I also know is we have to look at this holistically, and we, as board members, we're looking at… we have a pool of money over the whole city, we have infrastructure projects, we have CIP, and we have council that has a process that address… that prioritizes and identifies which projects we're going to use CCRS money for, or if we're gonna tap private partnerships, or we're gonna tap a bond. So there's… so I know there… this is complicated, but I think that I don't want to get to a point where we say, we've got $53 million, let's go ahead and do this massive renovation, and by that, I mean adding two lanes or moving the pool. Like, that to me, is a non-starter. That is not realistic use of taxpayer dollars. If we need more pool capacity, what we need to be doing is thinking about, okay, how do we get that

[139:15] into the hands of taxpayers. And I don't just mean South Boulder, I mean the entire city of Boulder wants more swim lanes. Why wouldn't we do that, then, with the South Boulder Rec Center rebuild and say. We're gonna do that, we're going to prioritize, we're going to figure out a way to fund that, but we're not going to rebuild South Boulder and switch the programmatic needs or weight… weight room. I mean, to me, that is not a real reasonable design solution for what we need. If we need energy upgrades, fine. use the $53 million, or part of that, but we don't have to spend all $53 million just because we have it. We could use it, reduce the debt that we have as a city, and say, let's not use all of that for East Boulder, let's use some of that for what we're planning to do in South Boulder anyway.

[140:05] Okay, so… so I might need to ask a follow-up question. Sure. Which is, I… what I kind of… I… I don't think that you asked a specific question that I can answer. But what I kind of heard was some fear that, oh, if we… if there's a potential that we add a single lane or two lanes over here, that means we're not going to do something over here. And that we think that the money over here is being spent in such a way that it's… it's going beyond what the need is at that location. And so I think maybe first, the… divorcing of this idea that what happens here will necessarily impact directly, one for one, what happens over here. The fact is, for the South Pole Direct Center, we… we don't know site feasibility, we don't know what's going to be possible to build there or not. We don't know if the community is going to approve additional funding for anything else. We only know we have the funding that we have now for East.

[141:07] Now, with that said, I think during the tour, I got a little bit excited, and I shared an example of one of the preliminary designs, which is switching locations between the fitness and the pool area that allows both areas to be bigger. If we wanted to add any space to the pool area at all, we would have to move it to a different location, and We're gonna have to re-dig that pool regardless if it stays in the same place. So the… Can you pause on that? Yeah. Are you saying that regardless of adding two lanes, there is a plan to use $53 million to rebuild the pool somewhere else? The East Boulder pool? No, so… So, the current pool is nearing the end of its life. By the pool, I mean both the shell, so the concrete shell, as well as the plaster that

[142:04] we have on top. The current pool in its location doesn't meet code based off of, you know, wall-to-water length, so we have a lot of walls that are very close to the water, and so it's not safe for lifeguarding, for our patrons, anything like that. So regardless of if we keep the pool in that current location where it is now, and just re-dig the pool we would have to make the pool smaller in its current location, because we don't have room to expand the building in that area. If we were to, what Megan's talking about, flip it and put the pool on one of the ends, we do have room to expand. That also allows us to have a tighter envelope for the pool. The pool is the most important, you know, you want to have the most airtight in the pool, and we would actually end up spending more money

[143:02] trying to retrofit that existing natatorium with just the envelope improvements that we would have to do there. So building a new structure that's more airtight would be more efficient Cost-wise. That's City of Boulder guidelines, is that right? For our energy costs. Correct, yes. Okay, I'm sorry, you said a lot, so you kind of have to unpack that a little bit. I know, I got it. I want to add one thing on the programmatic side that we identified at East, is that that's the current location of Agewell East. And a huge ask from that community has been warm water wellness, and also from families, system-wide, more warm water amenities, right? The slide is currently closed there, you know, other things going on, and so the current location of the pool just would not allow expansion, and it could impact that size of the warm water features at that location that we think are so critical. To system-wide and to east, specifically. Do you all have estimates, then, on cost for…

[144:06] I mean, I'm talking ballpark at this point, I'm not… I understand you're not ready yet, but… So, if you're saying that the pool at East has to be shrunk because of the water table issues, and you have to redo it in some way. I don't know how much that costs. That amount plus creating the new envelope to make it more energy efficient, which I'm still, again, I'm not really sure I'm on board with that yet, but… What would that cost, that scope of work? To keep the pool… To keep the… yeah, to keep the pool where it is without, like, endangering people, you know, the safety issues you're talking about, like, what would that cost? I… think we have that number somewhere. I will have to… I will have to get back. Okay, and that's fine. Yeah. I understand, but I'm asking hard questions here. But if you compare that number, whatever that is, with those sort of, like, let's make sure we don't have safety issues, let's try to make this envelope more energy efficient, what is that?

[145:04] versus what is it to flip the programmatic need areas, because I can't imagine we're not talking about extraordinary numbers with flipping. It's got to be upwards of 50, 60, 70 million to do that complete change, and you're… so are you saying, no, that's not the case? It's not in the $50 to $60 to $79 range. Okay. It is a lot less than that, and it is more efficient for with… so at facilities, we're looking at, you know, the total cost of ownership of a building, and so we have to maintain these buildings. And so, for our maintenance folks to properly maintain the pools, it does make more sense for us to have a newer pool in a new building. Yeah, I get it, because you would be using modern technology, blah blah blah, but that's long-term. What I'm trying to figure out is, what is just the cost, the upfront construction cost, to do this scenario versus

[146:05] flip, you know, that's what I'm trying to figure out. I think, like, a big piece of this, too, is we're not talking… it wouldn't be like-for-like. So by trying to keep it an existing footprint and doing everything we're gonna do, it wouldn't be two pools. It would be one pool, and at that location, it would be probably the leisure pool with some additional warm water walking and no lap pool at the East Boulder Community Center if we tried to keep it. in that spot. And so I think, like, I want to make sure that we're focusing on the needs assessment tonight, because I feel like we've kind of veered a little bit over to East Boulder, and happy to talk about East Boulder. But I also want to make sure that we're actually talking about the needs assessment as well, because that's where we looked at this whole system. Well, and this is informing East as a next step, but we're not… we don't have a design for East yet. We haven't come to you all even with preliminary designs for East, and so that's still work to happen, and we'll have more conversations about it. Can you go back to that slide that had all the pretty pictures?

[147:12] This one. Yes, that one. So this is what you took to everybody and said, what do you want, right? And they dotted this one? Yep, this is a reflection of what we heard. Okay. And then we verified it with the community by having them place dots on it. This is one engagement. This is the game night. The game night. Coming out of game night, and then… So the pink in the middle is what, like, was sort of rose to the top, is that right? Add lap lanes, expand gymnasiums, and improve. For system-wide, yeah, yeah. So… I mean, those are… I think that's kind of, like… okay. So again.

[148:00] I guess where I'm getting heartburn on this, and I'm trying to stick with your needs assessment discussion, because obviously Laplands is a priority throughout the entire Bowler community. reading what Southwilder, you know, the representative, Ryan, spoke to the South Boulder Rec Center. They sent out, and this is relevant, I think it's relevant to this conversation, they sent out questionnaires to all the City Council candidates and said. how do you prioritize reimagine South Boulder? You know, in terms of, like, will you? And, you know, how will that work? Whatever. So all of the candidates… well, all the candidates responded, I think all of them did, but what was interesting, and I think it's what's important for us to understand, is there may be traction. at the city council level, when, you know, the voting's over, all done, and everybody's in place, that they're going to say, we do not support any bond initiatives where there's going to be dedicated funding for just South Boulder.

[149:03] That's what we… that's what we saw in the survey responses in some of the candidates. And… because of that, to me, that was a red flag. It feels like South Boulder, we're hanging our hat on We'll fund South Boulder eventually, and it's going to be a bond. But East Boulder is gonna get the CCRS money that the voters approved. And what concerns me, I guess, just trying to zoom out on, you know, debt issues and whether this is even feasible to get South Boulder even rebuilt, if you've got an uphill battle or winds we're going to be pushing against where Council is saying. No more debt, no more dedicated funds, that's not a good way to holistically plan City of Boulder infrastructure. then we're kind of putting the South Boulder project at a disadvantage, because they're hanging their hats on, we're going to go for a bond, whereas CCRS is going, not only are we gonna dedicate $53 million and maybe… maybe improve the… the lap lane capabilities, etc.

[150:11] But it looks like South Boulder's gonna be left hanging, possibly, and I think that's the concern. Can you talk a little bit about the Fund Our Future initiative, and how that plays into this conversation for the rec centers? Yeah, and I think what's really key here is I, like, again, I hear a lot of, well, what does this mean for South, right? And this is a… this is a starting point. for not only what we want to do at East, but also across the system, which, through the Fund Our Future process, right, allows us to say, these are all of the needs that we're not meeting, or these are the needs we want to make sure we're maintaining. So, in the needs assessment, it says that we should have at least 24 lap planes across the system. That is our current level of laplane service. So, we have no intention of wanting to go below that level of service, right? And so right now.

[151:00] that means that there's a pool at the South Pole Direct Center, and we would want to maintain that level of service in our system, right? So, through this work, it's identifying the needs that the community has set, along with the policy needs and our research into best practice, right? And then that will inform, okay, well, we have this whole bucket of everything, this is… through a feasibility study at South, what could potentially go here to help meet those needs? What does that bucket of future funding ask look like, right? But the idea with the needs assessment is it would just be an input into Fund Our Future for then the taxpayers to consider along with everything else. So I think the idea is to be strategic and thoughtful across the whole city about everything that we have to fund, because we do have aging infrastructure. And then, I don't know if I missed anything specifically about… I mean, I'd like to just know, look, Wonder Future seems like this, like, genie of an idea that's just kind of floating out there, and I don't really understand what it is. I mean, what I think it is, is all the departments are coming together, putting together $500 million of…

[152:13] Maintenance that hasn't been completed on, you know. for infrastructure or whatever, and then they're going to take that whole thing and give it to the taxpayers and say, okay, if you want this, you pay for it. Is that what it is, or is… am I not looking at this right? I think that's, maybe simplifying it a little bit. I will say that we're looking at things very strategically across the city. We know there's a lot of needs. in a lot of different departments, and certainly City Council and others are very well aware of the need in South Boulder for a replacement of the South Boulder Rec Center, and that will be balanced with the needs of all the other things across the entire city and system. So, the hope here is that we're establishing some really quality feedback from our community about what they want. from the rec center system across the board, and from there, I think we… we need to determine what goes on a ballot measure, what specifically is called out as far as a priority, and that will be up to City Council to determine what that is.

[153:13] So, it will not be, you know, certainly we… We would love to see a dedicated pot of money specifically for the South Boulder Rec Center. That would be something that would be determined through the whole process that will start this spring, and there is a committee, and then City Council will be working on that, and we'll prioritize the needs across the city and make a recommendation for ballot language for next year. So, Funder Future. will be on the ballot in 26, but will not be dedicated to specific projects, or will we… We don't know yet. I don't believe that's determined at this point. So, they will certainly want a ballot measure that would pass and be supported by the community, and so there'll be a lot of conversations as to what projects are called out or what that language looks like. Jackson, do you have any other thoughts or comments? I know you've been involved in that a little bit.

[154:08] I'll say that right now, there is a list of underfunded, unfunded needs across all departments. That was done very preliminarily. The intention behind Fund Our Future is to address what the service levels are that we're providing for the ongoing operations side of things. As well as the underfunded capital needs of taking care of our buildings. the Southwell Direct Center, the Eastbool Direct Center, our aging, facilities across the board. So, all of that will be looked at comprehensively. It will be folded into, looked at research for a ballot measure, how does it pull, and then, what is the funding source to pay for it. Right now, a difficulty we have is there are so many different dedicated funds within the city, that you can't pull Parks and Recreation funding for a facility's needs. Similar to, you can't pull transportation funding to pay for a facility. So part of it will be looking at what is that funding mechanism, if it's a continuation of CCRS, if it's bonding, or if there's other funding mechanisms that exist out there.

[155:11] I have a funny question. I do also have questions on the assessment, so… but, and I don't know if this might be a question for you, Jackson, so I went too far, but, with the CCRS funds that have been allocated for East Boulder, and which have been approved by voters twice. If we… if tomorrow City Council said, actually, you know what, we think Yvonne's right, and we should rebuild South Boulder, like, what is the process by which we would move that money to that new project? That's a great question, and I'm not sure I have the answer to that question. Jackson, do you have any initial thoughts? Currently, the funding has been allocated and appropriated through City Council action. That East Boulder Community Center is the named project. It would require a different city council action to basically defund one project to fund a different project, is my understanding of how it would work. Well, and I would imagine… I don't know either, we probably need to do further research, but the ballot language actually specifically called out this project, so the ballot that, like, you or I received in the mail, we voted for this project. So I don't know

[156:14] I don't know if it would be more complicated than just City Council. Ballot language was such as, specifically for flexibility. And then also, I think from… if we were to talk to Council, you know, about this idea you're posing here… You're right, posing the idea, to be clear. If I… yeah, okay, you can put it all on me. I, I, I, I really do think there's some… reasonableness here to discuss, because again, I'm trying to look at this holistically. We got $53 million to do renovations for East Boulder. Renovations, in my mind, are things to just make sure that thing is operating well, it's modernized, it's not falling apart, we have the systems updated as best we can.

[157:04] it doesn't necessarily mean a whole deep energy retrofit to make sure it's functioning at net zero capacity. I don't think that's necessarily what renovations are, and I do have a question about that, but go ahead, you had other questions. Well, and I would like to chime into that, because once we start a major renovation of a facility. It is also going to require us to meet current code within the city. So you can't just… Yeah, I guess Allie's got her hand up, I'll let Allie chat there. City of Boulder, she/her: Please keep going, Scott. No, I think when you start a project and we decide we're going to make those changes, it is going to require changes to our air handling system, to our windows, to, you know, several parts of the facility. We've got locker room renovations that would need to be included, so it does add up so quickly to even just get us to current modern code within the City of Boulder.

[158:00] I'm familiar with that. Once you touch a building, now you've got… you've got a… you have to meet code, whatever code is. But are you saying that that energy upgrade to… once you touch it, is that… and we're talking about building code, I'm assuming, just building code, not net zero, right? We're talking about building code. Yeah, minimum code, right, gotcha. Okay, are you saying that the $53 million is going to get eaten up all by just that energy upgrade, just to get to that, just to get to… To bring that building up to current codes, that includes energy, that includes accessibility, all of the codes that we need to bring it up to. We could spend… we could spend all of the money. Okay, so the reverse… the flipping, the programmatic areas, then, that would go well above the 53 that we have already in CCRS, then? No. City of Boulder, she/her: So I'm gonna… I wanna… I do wanna chime in here. For one, is that. City of Boulder, she/her: I am going to ask that the… the talking about flipping, it really isn't a helpful use of time anymore tonight. As Megan clarified, we are not at that point in design where we're making decisions.

[159:09] City of Boulder, she/her: And… and we do need to stay… I've heard the word holistic and strategic. I want to zoom out… out of even Parks and Recreation. The City of Boulder has a deep and long-standing commitment to addressing climate change and to reducing energy consumption. City of Boulder, she/her: And so, that is a key goal of these projects, and this board cannot relitigate that decision. City of Boulder, she/her: And so, energy consumption in recreation centers, we are interested in this city in leading the way and showing that recreation centers can help meet energy goals, they can reduce energy consumption. We have seen net-zero buildings City of Boulder, she/her: in the country now, and that is the charge of the facilities team, and that's what this project is trying to do. And we cannot discard those goals.

[160:00] Yeah, I'm not discarding those goals. Let me just… full transparency, I used to be the lobbyist for the American Institute of Architects, so if anybody is a supporter of what architects do in terms of net zero energy efficiency, that is me. Net zero. I did that for a living for a very long time. So I'm not discarding that. I absolutely think it's a priority, especially for a progressive city like Boulder. So, let me just clarify. What I'm trying to look at as a board member is… The financial challenges we have as a city. The fact that we've got a facility in South Boulder that is, yes, we're putting a band-aid, we're getting it to a point where we can keep it operating for 5 to 7 years, but we clearly have a mandate here from the City of Boulder, or from residents, that aquatics is important. And… I… what I… I guess I'm just trying to address this holistically, because if energy efficiency is

[161:00] you know, a mandate, and I understand that's what the City of Boulder wants to do, I just want to make sure that I understand what that means in terms of costs and functional improvement, because I wouldn't want to touch East Boulder if it's going to say… if it's going to use up the 53 just to get it to code. And then, now we've used up all of the CCRS money, and now we've got to put a… get out a bond, or find more money to do the additional things that East Boulder needs. And we've got South Boulder, the clock is ticking. Like, I just feel like we're kind of running into, you know, a potential situation where we're going to have a collapse of… one of them's not going to work, and then we're going to be in a or situation. So, I think we're in agreement that we don't want to lower our level of services, right? And we… we only have so much funding and want to use that in the smartest way possible, right? And so this needs assessment helps us determine the needs across all the system, and then, yes, we have money identified for EAST, that was a named item, right, that will go forward.

[162:08] And it's going to set us up to be able to ask for what we need in other locations. And so I think the… this is a tool, the needs assessment is a tool to help us further those conversations is an absolutely yes. And we don't… we won't have an answer to those questions today, because we don't get to decide that here today, what, you know, or get to decide what money that's already been allocated for something, if it's going to go somewhere else. Certainly that's something that we can follow up on. So, can you tell us next steps? For this needs assessment, yes. Yeah, so this is a final needs assessment, so the next steps are really, we're gonna… we're gonna use this information to start doing those preliminary designs for the East Boulder Community Center, and to inform over the next 5 months, the Fund Our Future project for the… and the long-term financial strategy, so that we can have that city-wide context. So this is, like, one of the inputs into that. Can you talk about the long-term financial strategy?

[163:14] Yes. We're in, Long-term financial strategy is a council priority. It's been on our work plan since the beginning of 2025. You've heard that there are four different work streams associated with the long-term financial strategy. They relate back to the service levels, the policies. The unfunded needs and, revenue generation. So, work's been done, with certain aspects of the revenue generation. 2026 will really be focused on an additional ballot measure based on community input from all of the underfunded, unfunded needs, as well as service levels across the city. The expectation is in Q2, there is some polling done on various ballot initiatives to determine what would go on the ballot for November of 2026. What happens if under future fails and CCRS fails?

[164:12] I think that this is an opportunity to ask the voters what they are willing to pay for. And I think that if the answer is no due to a failure, it's either revisiting the drawing board to determine what other options exist, or taking the word that this isn't as big of a priority as we hear from community members at this room or through our engagement. I do have a question about the assessment. Did you… In thinking about, like, so we… there's the pillar of things that we want in every rec center, and there's the other bucket that's maybe one or two throughout the system. Did those, did any of those map onto specific locations? We… we refrained from doing that for the most part, except sometimes we might have recommended something for East, specifically with its, co-location with the… the AWEL Center. It makes more sense for certain activities and things at that location. But no, we…

[165:10] we held back from that so that we could have that informed through the Fund Our Future project. And, like, both of the… Things in, like, of the things that we're meant… that we're lacking, or we're lacking enough of. what is… other than the pools? Like, what is the one thing that we… that Boulder Wrights want the most? The cardio and weight rooms are severely undersized. Slide 11, if you want to share that slide again. You went through that pretty quick, Megan, and those community rankings for the priorities, I think this is an important piece to highlight, in that the community ranking number one priority was fitness. And so, even though in the cartoon drawing of priorities, you didn't see much there for the North Boulder Rec Center, for example, that weight room is undersized for serving, you know, North Boulder. So, you look at fitness across the board, and there is the desire from community members to expand the strength and cardio areas.

[166:04] As well as, gymnasium space. So, that… that was number one, and aquatics was shortly thereafter, but I don't know if you want to mention anything more about these. specifically in… Yeah, I think where is our system not meeting the need is clearly in our fitness and cardio areas. They're very undersized at all of our locations. They're spreading into the hallway. People love to swim here, absolutely, and we want to get them in the water. We think there are some options to help streamline some of that through scheduling. There's some opportunities there, if we are able to expand. you know, into more lanes or anything, there's… there's other options for that, but that… that fitness is really the… the biggest need in our tool. Like, the future, like the rock firewall that we have at East, is that something we want? No, so… I think if we could do it really well.

[167:01] it might be something our community is interested in, but the feedback from the assessment was generally that our rock climbing wall does not meet community needs, there's better… there's a million better spaces… spaces to go in this community. As a climber, I can attest to that. They're just… it's nowhere near, what the other… I think as we look at selling memberships and trying to generate revenue for the RAF, there are two main selling points. One is the ability to do lap swimming, because we know we have a lot of swimmers in our community. The other is the fitness space, whether it's strength training, fitness classes, you know, yoga, mind-body type classes. That's why people join rec centers, and so those are the spaces that turn into our top three priorities from the community, and I think they also will translate into revenue and membership sales if we take care of those spaces and make sure to address those needs across the system.

[168:00] And I would love to know if you don't mind providing after, just how many people, if you… if you can, how many people actually engaged in the surveys. And the engagement opportunities, that would be an interesting number to know. Yeah, we had thousands of folks, over the course of these, the first three windows, And in some of the past Prabh reports, I know we provided very specific numbers, upwards of, like, 5,000 per window, so… Those are in the needs assessment, too, there's a touch point where it says… We'll follow up. Yeah, yeah, we can point out the specific page, but, on each of the online surveys that we ran, we got over 1,000 responses, and that was just the online survey portion of those videos, so it was usually in the range of, like, 2,000 to 5,000 people that we were engaging with, so… in each window. So at this point, we have a needs assessment. We are going to see what happens next Tuesday with CCRS tax, which then will inform our decisions moving forward. And then from there, we'll get into the long-term financial strategy and fund our future, see how that pans out in 2026.

[169:05] And then we should know a little bit better about how we can manage all these rec centers. That's the takeaway. Good summary, Jake. Any other questions before we, go on to, matters from the board? I do, sorry. Oh, no. Which of the centers is the busiest? North. By far, or by middle? It gives about 65% of the visitation across all locations. Is there, like, a calculation that you're doing about, like. User per square foot, or, like. You know, thinking specifically about something like that necessarily, how big does that wait room need to be? I think that that weight room specifically, you could probably make it as big as you wanted, and it would fill. It's… it's a very popular location, and with that said, it's… it is on, the… the actual property that it is on is not that huge. So, that's something we would look at in the future, but again, we haven't done any specific engagements for North. I can give you some anecdotal.

[170:05] That's right, but at 545 at North, there's a line at the door, and then there's a rush to get in the weight room so that they get what they need to have. And I would say, like, we look at the system, we also look at the site-specific needs, and we're looking at equity specifically. North is also one of our centers that we know is directly next to the HP site, and so has some of our lower income and higher usage of financial aid, so yes, that is something that we're absolutely, like, layering on. Absolutely. Yeah, if you zoom out in a map, it's actually the… it's the quickest location for most of the community to get to. It's the most accessible. And then lastly, I just wanted to… I mean, Yvonne, she has some very good points, and she's familiar with the industry, so… If there's opportunities for her to discuss with you guys, with staff. offline, maybe some opportunity to decide after the CCRS tax is decided next week, maybe that would be a good opportunity for you to sit down with staff just to talk through how some of this might happen. Yeah, definitely, just stay close. Can I ask one more question, then? Of course.

[171:12] I saw that in the needs assessment, the discussion around BVSD, And, you know, trying to kind of come to some common ground there, and and I know that… I think that's an ongoing kind of struggle, and I know from the needs assessment, the BVSD folks are saying, we need highly competitive elements and features to be able to, you know, bring in Seating, and etc, right? what did you all, staff, take away from that? Is it that there can't be, a compromise, or that We can't develop, for example, for Fairview, adequate swimming facilities to meet their needs, and it has to be this specialized aquatic center? Or… I'm just curious what your take on that was.

[172:00] I don't… I don't know that there's one right way to solve that challenge, right? And I will say that some of the desires of the school district would be to not have any people of the public in any shared spaces with people for the kids. Which I get that, but we are a public rec center, and we're trying to serve both needs, and so I think that's somewhere… sometimes where we have that competing priority of wanting to serve the public in different ways. and so right now, they're… they give a lot on that, right? Like, they do share locker rooms with adults, right? We don't have the resources to build two specialty locker rooms for that. That would be something that if the school district wanted, we would probably lean on them as partners to help for… part of the funding to help meet that goal, and if it's a way that we can bridge it, across multiple needs, great. But it's something we're exploring, don't have an answer for. So, is their funding, whatever they share in a facility, pool facility, is that pretty significant, like, in terms of helping? Yeah, I mean, I think it would be a partnership conversation that needs to continue, and we've been working with the school district, we'll continue to do so. I believe their next ballot measure is 2028 or 2029, that they would

[173:21] have any funding, but there would be a lot of discussions. Obviously, the school district is much bigger than just Boulder, so then it's looking at other communities further east, or, or, you know, a more centralized location, potentially, but I think, you know, we're going to continue that conversation and figure out where we could go to basically meet their needs and be true partners in the process. That's great. That's good to hear, because what I wouldn't want to see is if they decided to go their own way, and they want to just have their own facility, that really does it would seem… it would take away the shared pool of resources and our ability to build a top-notch swimming center at South Boulder for them, and also for other students, but… Yeah, and we'll continue to meet with the Boulder Community Aquatics Coalition, with the school district, with CU, and continue those conversations about

[174:16] Future locations and potential funding sources and how we can work together. And I'd love to figure out a way to add… I mean, this has just been all very fascinating to me, especially this conversation about the fact that it would potentially cost $53 million just to bring a rec center up to our existing code. I mean, I would like some more education on that. I know that we have really, really lofty climate goals here, but to take that much money out of taxpayer pockets to… for one rec center while another's failing, to me, does seem like a… mismanagement of priorities in some way. Like, I don't know if there's a way to look at that a little differently, or if there's exceptions we can get in order to, you know, make that money work more efficiently, but

[175:03] I, I mean, I just didn't realize that it would be that much money to bring one building up to Deep Energy, and I feel like that is a… like, that's a city… that's a big city problem. Yeah, and I… I think, like, I'm hearing a lot of questions about, like, the East project, but also just the how thing… how expensive things are, and I think that's something that we can probably, like, do more research, get you the information you need, and bring it back. Yeah, because again, if we're going to rebuild… South Boulder Rec, and we're talking about $53 million just for climate, it's gonna cost $100 million to rebuild South Boulder Rec. That's not… That's insane. I mean, that's not… And I will tell you, Fort Collins just approved at Council, last week or the week before their facility, and it's… nearing $80 million. Yeah, that's what you just said. For a brand new rec center? For a new rec center. With limited lap lanes and, you know, just… but that's what rec centers cost nowadays, and I'm sure you all could speak more to that. Yeah, well, and some of the problem is with South Boulder, it was built in 1972. We didn't have energy codes in 1972. We didn't have even a thought of energy codes until 1973.

[176:08] Margo. And so, the codes have changed significantly over those 50 years. And so that's where our struggle is. And then you also have buildings that have not been maintained properly. So, a lot of the renovation costs that we're seeing for East Boulder are simply to bring things up to a place where things aren't failing. Your RTU units aren't failing, your plumbing's not failing, so there's that kind of catching up that we're doing on several fronts. That is what's bringing all the costs. Yeah, and I had a building that was 5 years ago. Yeah. It'd be way different, yeah. I would just love to… The conversation about code is also an opportunity to make the building more functional. Right. That's part of the conversation, it's like… Accessible. Well, but also, like, because part of it has to do with the way the locker rooms are laid out, like, private areas, and make sure there's enough room for circulation, and we're talking about, like, the safety of the pool deck. Like, these are…

[177:04] These are functional improvements, in addition to, yes, improving the energy. Yeah. Well, I guess that's what I would like to know. I would like to know what, like, where that cost split is, you know, between accessibility and energy, and… I mean, basic code's like, you know. accessible ramps, or whatever. Like, that, of course, is, you know… but I… yeah, so I guess I would just be looking to have more education in some future meeting about how those codes will affect us, because if we're going to start touching all three rec centers, and this is going to be a big deal over the next 10 years, I would like to know what we're looking at as far as funding splits go for those type of accessibility plus climate. And I think there's also the idea that once you start touching a building and doing alterations, substantial alterations, that's when you trigger the law to say, okay, now you've got to bring everything up to code. Whereas net zero is a little bit different, I think. I don't think… I mean, the experts should speak to this, but, like, that's an aspirational thing that the City of Boulder wants to get to.

[178:01] And I don't know what the cost difference there is, like, is it… how much is it just to get the building to code versus… Yeah. other aspirations. So if we could have that in a meeting for next time we touch the rec centers, I would… it would be really appreciated, I think, for us just to have that kind of deeper knowledge as to what we're looking at as far as funding. Yeah, we can definitely do that, because we have… I could check all the stuff. Not today, when we schedule it. All right, great. Okay, so rec centers. Good job, everybody. Yeah, thank you. Thank you, staff, for all that information, really appreciate it. Okay, then now we're moving on to what matters from the board. This portion of the meeting is provided with the board to report on perhaps annual work plan goal of September, attending two or more Parks and Recreation-related community activities per month. with arts and Recreation through social media, attending site tours, and supporting the Department of Partnership Initiative. What items would board members like to report on at this time?

[179:01] Jenny, I just wanted to call to your attention, the Prabh letter to City Council, is not due until December 19th, so that could be addressed. It is listed on the agenda as a topic for you all to address tonight. I can, and so I think, Typically, boards and commissions will, write a letter to City Council, to the newly elected City Council members. And it's a pre-retreat letter that states, the priorities of the PRAB, and what you encourage Council to focus on. I think, Vernon, you've been a part of that process in the past. You could probably speak to it a little bit more, but that would be something that that letter would be put together and then supplied to City Council in December. Okay. So that… I'm not sure you need to cover it tonight, but, certainly if you wanted to have a couple of private members draft that, or start that, Allie's got her hand up, I'll stop talking.

[180:06] City of Boulder, she/her: Well, I just want to add… they actually do need to start a conversation tonight if they want to review a draft letter in November, because they will not… that's their opportunity if they want to have a draft process where they all review the letter. I can add some context. My understanding is that the retreat happens every two years, one side, I suppose, with the new council. Two years ago, the board felt very passionately about, swim education. And we wrote a letter, about why we thought that Boulder should study, the City Council should study, implementing universal swim education for middle school students. We submitted a letter to City Council, and they opted not to investigate that any further. So it was a little bit… it was a little bit asymptomatic process. But nevertheless, this is our opportunity to say to the City Council, we could probably… this ought to be a priority for Boulder, and here's why, and thank you for your consideration, and then they take it away, and…

[181:05] Toss in the hopper one. All the others. Do you want to briefly go around and say what you think should be included in that letter right now, and then we can assign somebody to write it? Or draft of draft, a preliminary draft? Because we all should have input on that before we write anything. Yeah, I have to say, we probably should have brought this up last week, because it feels a little bit… Yeah, I have rushed right this very last minute of this meeting. Well, and also, like, yeah, we have given anyone the opportunity to think about it, however… Why don't we talk about stuff all the time? So, I know what Yvonne's is gonna be. So maybe we should task Yvonne with writing this from scratch. Oh, God, no. Well, I think it's… we can… if anyone on the Pratt has a topic that they are particularly passionate about that thinks that should be a priority, that elevates the City Council. Send it to Clarissa. We'll say so out loud now, I think, because we have to… Oh, okay, great. Because we have to… we have to agree on a topic tonight, and then also tonight as science, or some people, to write a draft. But it's one topic only?

[182:07] No, the one in, 24 was 3 topics. And what were those? So, one was, increased support for equity programs in the department. And the second was need for universal swim instruction. This is what was provided to us. Oh, sorry, okay, I missed that. Yeah. Yeah. I think those are the two. And I would suggest that, you know, the one that I'm really interested in is, moving forward to South Boulder renovation or replacement, and I think that would be the number one topic for me, at the risk of being assigned to drive for that. Michael, aren't you concerned that it's already being discussed as part of the Fund Our Future framework, and Will they already know it's a priority? Yeah, but I'd want to really emphasize it, as much as possible, and it may be discussed, but I don't think Prabh has taken a formal position on it, other than to communicate it in our discussions here.

[183:08] What would you put in there? Well, I mean, certainly, like, yes, SVRC is a significant priority. I… I'm struggling to come up with I'm happy to draft this letter. Okay. There you go. The other thing to flag is that the memo about what the projects or priorities are looking for says, priorities this year will be limited in number and expected to be able to be completed in 12 months or less. So it sounds like they're looking for, like, shorter-term priorities that we're interested in, which might complicate… Well, you can break, for example, South Boulder, you can break it up into you want to design. Well, or… or you want it on the CIP, as a priority, and you want… you want to know what those funds are gonna… what funds you're going to be looking for outside of CCRS, right? What's an opposing putting… No, no, I'm just saying, I think you can break it up into, like, this is a… we would like you to make this full, and…

[184:09] Yeah, I don't know. I mean, it's a thousand people from Reimagine, you know, that are… and it's an amazing asset, and it's in a remarkable place, and it's… Need to do something about it. and just create the holistic view. Rob, what about you? Well, that's one thing, I'm just looking at it holistically, like we've been saying. You know, you've got the CCRS, the $53 million going to that, but how are we going to leverage… are we going to go to the taxpayers and ask. for more money for South Boulder, or do we look at a project like this? And I know we've beaten this to death, but, like. Can we squeeze a little out of some of the projects that we have going now? And allocate that to what we know in 5 to 7 years is going to come up. So, funding sources? Yeah, it's not sexy, but…

[185:03] Yeah, I'm just wondering whether we should talk about some of, like, the broader, needs associated with all of the rec centers, or just focus on South Boulder. I mean, just even some of the stuff that came up, like, we're hearing from the community that they're looking for, you know, expanded fitness areas in all of the rec centers. I mean, maybe it's not worth including and just focusing on South Boulder as, like, the one priority that they should take away from this board, but… I mean, I think just the fact that fitness centers came up is number one, and I think at all three of the rec centers, it's just… it's really constrained. I… that's like a… just across the board, what the community is asking for. For the rec centers. I think we can… I can write it in a way that's, like, we're focused on the rec centers, with specifically this one being the concern. Yeah, I think that's great. Yeah, if we just… because I think that also makes it, like, a little bit broader, too, so it's not just… I mean, it's going to impact everyone who's the South Boulder rec facility, but zooming out, this is what we're hearing from the community. But I think, yeah, Kira.

[186:12] I think that that's exactly right, because if in 5 to 7 years, South Boulder or less, if it, you know, the extent, the money that we're putting in now, let's just say it only lasts for another 4 to 5 years, and something really big happens and it can't operate. The impact it has to the whole system of all the swimmers, all the fitness center people that used to go to South Boulder are now going to be going to north, and now going to be going to East, and it just becomes that more, like, annoying to work out. So if we're already having people that are annoyed by the current status and saying, you guys need to do more. Imagine that. Imagine that scenario. And we're going to have an opportunity to see that in real time when East Boulder starts getting renovated, and that's closed down. Right. And then that overflow is going to north and south. Right, right, great. We'll feel it in real time. Yep. Caroline, how are you? Anything? I mean, in my brief time here, I feel like we've consistently heard the most about pickleball, aquatics, and planes, and then the

[187:14] rec centers needing to be retrofitted and not having enough space, which sounds like we're kind of at least touching on two of those things in the current letters that we're speaking about, the rec center improvements. So, and Pickleball seems like we're addressing it here amongst ourselves. I don't necessarily need City Council to prioritize, so… I mean, I'll throw in one other thing, I'm just throwing this out there. covered tennis. I hear that all the time. Like, indoor, you mean? Yeah, they're losing South Boulder. For the flood mitigation. And, Cindy's house. And, It's on hold for East. And we have none.

[188:01] I'll just say, what about Eurasian milfoil? Do you want to talk? Let's try the letter about Eurasia. No! Oh, I could talk about that forever, though. I don't know why. You guys will hear all about that next month. Oh, you wanted to drain the resume? I wanted to drain the resume. Yeah, yeah. That was not a reasonable request, you know. That was my number, my first meeting. Jenny, I just want to call attention now. Oh, perfect. City of Boulder, she/her: I was just… I was gonna offer that a North Star you might use is the 2022 Parks and Recreation Plan, because that's where we did the broadest community engagement, and really, if you boil it down, the concerns that emerged in that plan are the things we would… I think, would be appropriate for the board to keep pointing Council to. City of Boulder, she/her: And I know the newer board members are still familiarizing yourself with that, but just… just something to consider. City of Boulder, she/her: The other thing I'll just… Jenny, I was thinking, I… I don't know you all might consider as a candidate… I don't think there's a conflict in you writing the letter.

[189:06] City of Boulder, she/her: I'm… will… Well, we'll decide it. With whatever happens. I'll still be on Prabh in December. City of Boulder, she/her: Got it. Perfect. You know what I mean? I won't be a member of council either way, either way, when our December meeting happens, I think. I don't, I don't know. City of Boulder, she/her: I would offer it for you all to consider since I was talking, and now I'll let you all figure out what you. Well, I can draft it, and then I can give it to Bernie, too. So when our letter goes to you two guys, then… draft it. You better not throw it away. Yeah, exactly. Recycle. So yeah, I think, I mean, I still think it… I'll have it drafted. Either way, whatever happens. That's Teresa. Yeah. And after November 4th, I might be super bored. So… Okay, so why don't we do this, then? So we've got a couple of topics I can start with, and then,

[190:05] if you guys don't mind taking a look at the 2022 Parks and Rec Plan, and if there's anything that you see in there that you think, might be something else to consider, if you could send it to Clarissa by… like… When… let's… well, since we're on the topic, when's our next? So, are those the first two goals in the master plan? Is that it? I'm sorry, are those the first two goals? There's, like, six goals, right? Is that the master plan? Correct. So the first, you know, that's on the front page of the agenda, which… Sends a pretty good outline for what we're gonna do. Community health and wellness is number one, and taking care of what we have is number two. Where… I'm sorry, oh, right on the rules are administered for that. Which is rec centers. Yeah. Alright, so our next one is November 17th.

[191:01] So if we could have… If you guys could send something to Clarissa, if you think that it should be included by November 10th, that would be huge. That would be very helpful. Sure. Wait, I'm sorry, you're asking for other topics? If you look at the master plan, or it's a strategic plan, and determine that there's something else you think should be considered… Instead of… instead of what we just talked about, which is basically rec centers and indoor tennis courts, not milfoil, though. I think that we should consider it, at least give everybody a couple of… A little time to think about it, right? Okay. Okay, so… November 10th, just mark that on your calendar as day to have something… if you have something else to include delivered, and then I will have the, letter before the… to… who do… Ellie, who do I send it to? Well, it would just come to the meeting. Just come to the meeting. So, we'll read it together.

[192:03] City of Boulder, she/her: You might consider… I mean, if our packet publishes the Wednesday before, and so if you have it to the Prab admin email and Clarissa by the 12th. City of Boulder, she/her: at 10 a.m, she can include it in the packet, or whenever you have it ready, we can distribute it to the PRAB and append it to the packet, and just update the link. Okay. So, as a dream… City of Boulder, she/her: And doing that in advance, just so folks have time to read it before the meeting. Okay, great. So I will have a draft probably to you by the 11. And to the staff. Okay. Was there anything else on the, there is, oh, board's okay, pre-restreet letter, and then Prab Matters. So everyone feels good about that letter thing? That we're good there? Yep. Thank you for taking away. It works. You don't have a lot on your hands. I'm gonna be like, find me something to do. Okay, so…

[193:14] Probably matters, I kind of got into that a little bit, anything anybody wants to talk about, the wonderful things that they did for parks this month. I want to say thank you for the field trip, again. That was fun. I think it was just such a great way to, you know, discuss everything that's happening, but also be, like, in the current site, and being able to see the ditch was very informative for this discussion that we had today, so thanks for… I wish it was about an hour longer. Yeah. Yeah, that was great. You're doing it on a… weekday work for everyone well enough? In the past, we've done it, like, basically when we would ordinarily have this meeting, and We're always fighting in darkness. Fridays.

[194:02] Any other Prabh matters? Nope. All right, alright, so our next board meeting, we talked about 11-17. If there is no further business for the prep tonight, this meeting is adjourned. Yay. Thank you, everybody. Thank you, for everything. Thank you so much.