August 19, 2024 — Human Relations Commission Retreat

Transcript

Manually captioned by City of Boulder staff. All segments attributed to uploader — not individual speaker labels. [MM:SS] timestamps correspond to the YouTube recording.

[0:16] OK, so just to ground ourselves in this, you want me to go through this or would you like to? I'm struggling with the headset as a nod if I'm speaking. OK, so I could be just having an issue here, but gotcha. I'm not hearing about the things through the headset. Are you all going to do the headset? Yeah, but it's it's delayed just fine. OK, I can see up there. Go for it, that'll work.

[1:02] Hello everyone. So last or a few weeks ago JH and Carlos and Christian I met to talk about the retreat. 3 of you have been through at least a few retreats, some more than others. Emily and Erin, this is your first time. The purpose statement is really just to share how a retreat is a little bit different than a normal business meeting, right? So we're actually not going to be going through this the kind of agenda that you normally do for a meeting. This is more of a time to focus on some connections yet updates and background on your role and then just kind of build relationship with each other. And obviously for all of us as a group. And when we met with Carlos and JH, these were some of the outcomes that they really wanted to make sure result from your time together this evening.

[2:01] So 1 is just to get to know each other a little bit and how you communicate what your interests are. What brought you to the HRC so that everyone at the end of this meeting will have maybe a little bit of a better understanding about your role in the context of the human Rights ordinance and have an opportunity to hear a little bit more about how discrimination claims and failure to failure to pay wage claims go through the city. If that's another part of the ordinance that staff work on. And then we wanted to get your thoughts about how we can make the work plan document, the spreadsheet that Ingrid previously and now Christian and I have been helping to maintain really useful so that you can yourselves can use this as as your your tool to help your work. And JH and Carlos were just sharing that it's a little

[3:01] challenging to do that, to kind of get access to the document and be able to use it. So we just want to have some conversation among you and and some suggestions or guidance for Christian and I so we can support you in your role. Does that, JH and Carlos reflect what we discussed? Is there anything that was missing that you wanted to bring up? OK. And for everyone, does that sound good? All right. So then for the meeting intentions, just the things we want to keep in mind for all of the times that we gathered together. But specifically for retreat like this where there's a little bit more kind of interaction, a little bit less formal to be

[4:03] present. Obviously, we all have lives that are outside of this room. So if you get pulled away or you need to, you know, use the restroom, get some more water, please do what you need to do to attend to your own needs. But when we're in this space, really be try to be available and present to listen to each other, step up and step back. If you're someone who tends to be a little bit more quiet or needs a moment to collect your thoughts, making time for people to do that. Some people, and I can be like this myself, just can't wait to say the next thing. So just like maybe like being quiet for a moment and giving others people the time and space to step up, really respecting each other's perspectives, which has always really been the case in this space. That's part of why you're here to create and foster respect for

[5:01] all people in perspective. So just want to bring that here because we will be talking about Christian will be sharing some information about discrimination cases and claims. We never as staff share personal information about anyone's case. We never do that. We can't do that. And so we just ask for your understanding there as well and to just not talk about any personal information when it comes to that part in the agenda and then accept non closure is just obviously we can't solve every problem tonight. And so there may be some questions that you'll decide that you want to talk about later on at another meeting or say, hey, you know, there was that topic. Let's let's pick that up later. We don't have time to get to it tonight because again, we want

[6:01] to respect your all's time this evening. So we may not be able to get to everything, but for those issues we'll just make note and then help you kind of pick up those conversations later on. That sounds good. Is there anything else that you want to kind of call out as a as an intention for your time here this evening? One thing, one thing I don't like there is referring from sharing personal information about cases. I don't like that because I think that's putting in news and people's marks. I don't think we discussed that in the I don't know. Yep. There you go. OK, we're here. We're here. I think we're here for reality and truth. And I think when people are invading, I don't know if that's the right English word.

[7:00] I'm wrong. Like when you put like when you put stop in somebody's mouth to talk about reality, I don't think that's fair as well. So I don't think anyone will share certain information about, about privacy, you know, all their life. But there's certain experience when it's when the case as an example, if it is unfair because because I think as we all here know, we all have a different experience. We all have a different reason why we join the HRC. I'm sorry. OK. I'm not sure what to do. You mind if I do? I think a lot of times when it's wireless, it doesn't work very well. But the audio is terrible. We just can't hear it. We can come closer to then we need to carry this with this. He's unmuted, so it should be thick, but it might be a huge

[8:00] hit on slip through them. Yeah, I can hear it. Maybe if you stand, is that better? It's not better. It's it's well, I don't seem to be wire wireless system is really bad. It's the only resource problems in my experience considering this minute. Should we try one of the is there any headsets? I'm so sorry, JH It's just it's like, yeah, got you. Do I need to use it or sometime here? Yeah. So this would be for folks that are we have some folks in the public who are observing this is what we're talking about to you,

[9:01] interpretation in a different language. Can you say something? Can you hear me better now? There we go. OK, OK, so, OK, let me put it clear. I just want to clarify that, yeah, I think everyone has the right to share their experience. It doesn't have to be personal, like to go into the case. But if something hurts, everyone here has that right. And I don't want anyone to feel like you have a, a, how do you

[10:02] call it a muzzle? Yeah, it's like, you know, to give you guys an example, it's different now. When I first get into HRC, the meeting we had, it was the first online meeting they ever had where everyone was there, the city councils were there, the mayor, everybody. No, no, they had, they didn't have a mayor back then. And the first thing first person who talked back then was the city, city lawyer. And this is the crazy part of it though. When you get in, before you get in, you read the what was there, why you drawing the reason and the minute you get in, it's a different, you know, the minute you walk into the door, there is a different set of rules and the rules were different. You can't talk, you can't meet without if it's really people or more, it's a meeting. OK, It's like in this is what I feel like instead of having that

[11:04] as AI don't think I'm having a problem with it the way it says it. But what my problem with it is if someone has a personal experience that hurt, they should be able to share it. And sometimes that's the reason they're drawing the HRC. And I'm not saying they should have, they should go to details. I don't think that's that's, you know, that needs to be shared here. But if it's something that is not working, we should be able to say it's not working. And I don't think that says anything about personal or anything. And in fact, if it happens to any one of us, let's think about the public out there. So it's gonna be even worse. So that's what I want to say. So thank you. Yeah, I think so. What we mean by that is if Roberto can step in, if we need attorney clarification, because we're talking about Christian's gonna be sharing information later on about here's how many

[12:04] cases have come in for wages, wage theft or discrimination. If somebody says tell me about that case, I wanna know about that, we're not gonna share any client information. I agree. That's good. And we wouldn't want you to do that. That's good. Yeah, that's what I'm saying too, all of those, but sharing your own. I think the first exercise tonight is an icebreaker where we'll ask people to care about what interests you, what are your motivations like that's personal information, but that's fine, right? There's nothing you're not like clients working on a, you know, kind of case in that, in that standpoint. So it's really just noting that because we're providing some basic information about that work, we won't be scaring anything posting and information about any of that. And we don't want you to do that either.

[13:00] Privacy issues. So doesn't that's different than perspectives, which is what you're, which is what you're here to do. Would it, which I'm not sure if this is what you're getting at, but if someone wanted to attend the meeting and speak about their specific case, would they be allowed to do that? No. OK. Because we're going to talk about the process of the office right there. Maybe you, maybe you and you would have to make like you would have to make like the fact. So if somebody wanted to address that, we would not be able to do that until such time as an appeal has been taken and it's in front of you as a group of recording in progress. Is that more what you're talking about making appeal? Is that where you're talking about JH?

[14:00] If someone wants to speak about their own? But I want to what I meant is close to that, but I want to clarify. Let's say, let's say you feel mistreated by the sky, the process, you should be able to you should be able to express that the process is unfair. I'm not saying you should go to specific cases Where do you understand? Like where like it's an example, Let's say you're a white girl. I'm a black man where I have to find a fan of it to make sure that everything works. And then I have to trust Carlos words over you, over what you said to satisfy me. Where? When I ask, oh, if I ask, let's put it that way, what did you sign? How do I know what? That's what you said. You said, oh, you can go to callus and what Callus word. That's it. But me, I was forced to sign an affair event.

[15:02] Do you understand? So there is no equity or equality. Does that make sense? That's what I'm saying. So if the equality is not there, so that process has to change. So that's all I'm saying. Yeah. So I think when we get to that part of the adjustment, kind of spell out the processes, you'll have some time to talk about the process. And it's just this is the public meeting, right. So we're just want to bring up that we don't want to stop with it might fall to be talking about privacy, privacy issues. These are strategies. That's all fun. So is that clarification helpful? We good to go. Yes, good discussion.

[16:29] How do you communicate or how you taking information? So if I was sharing for that, I would say from my Miss Elizabeth, I have been involved in social justice issues for many, many years before coming to community systems motivated by creating space for everyone in our community to be able to live and ride. And I sometimes need to count to 10 in my hat before speaking.

[17:04] Sometimes I can feel like I just want to jump in right away. So I try not to do that very often. And sometimes I will count to 10. And if I'm facilitating, I will kind of see if somebody has not been speaking up much to just say more about that. Would you like to, would you like to share something? So we're in communication. That's really my way of just saying I want to hear from you. I want to hear what you like. You're smart grade, you're bigger. So that's how I would respond to. I just want to go around and to go this way. But you can jump in there as well. Sure. Want to start it. Yeah. Hi, my name is Aaron. Can you mute your thing there or turn the volume off?

[18:00] Maybe not. OK, so my name is Aaron. I think what motivates me to serve on the HRC is I really care about inclusion and I really love Boulder and I want more people to feel included and feel like they can be a part of Boulder. And so that's something I've just been caring a lot about. And so that motivates me to join communication style and group meetings. I think I'm like, yeah, my, my default is like very much just like listener and like a tuning to the group field. And like my lesson is usually to like, yeah, insert my voice a little more. Sometimes I can be so into listening that I like don't let myself speak. And so I like to, yeah, challenge myself to, to, to communicate more and not just listen preference for communication between meetings. I think my philosophy is like that our group coherence works better when each of us has individual coherence. And so like, I really value building a relationship with all

[19:02] of you because I think it just means that as a group we can flow better. And so I, I love to communicate more between meetings and would love to meet and connect with each of you. So yeah, I'll be complete there.

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[22:04] I joined HRC because I also went to see Boulder and I noticed the difference of experiences in white people and non white people and being with my non white colleagues and their experiences. I wanted to be a part of making their lives better, and I know that from listening that that is an experience that's outside of CU and Boulder as well. I also think there are a lot of opportunities in Boulder. We have a really wealthy tax base. We have a lot of resources to use, so distributive justice is really exciting to me. How can we use these resources to better serve our entire community and communication style in Group meetings? I also don't like to like fight space so over zoom I actually

[23:06] like how like the raise hand functions. I don't. I never want to interrupt another person or cut them short so I like that. Sometimes I do that in person too and I like asking questions more often times than sharing my opinion. I think I have a lot to learn in this space and preferences for communication before between meetings. The as you were talking about JH, the sunshine law. I am used to so much collaboration, even asynchronously that is hard for me not replying all to collaborate. So that's something that I'm getting used to in this space. But similar to Aaron, would love to develop more one-on-one relationships with you all and and make our collaborations work

[24:04] within the parameters that we have. And I'm just excited to be here with you all. Can you hear me OK? My name is John, and I've been living in Boulder for 18 years. From 80, I think I joined. I joined the HSC. It was right after I got divorced. I think I started dating and realized that abuse, molestation and a few other things were part of the society. And then from the stories that I've heard, I felt like, OK, I have a daughter, I have to protect her and I have to do something.

[25:01] And the other part of it was I was tired of being discriminated against and I didn't know how to deal with it because coming from straight from Haiti to Boulder, you know, like the blackest place to the whitest place, it's, it was hard to know and navigate it, I think over time. So I was looking for a way to, to be, how do I say to, to help with some kind of change, make a difference. I'm not saying I could change the whole thing, but as long as I can do something good to make it better. So that's pretty much what I joined the HSC and so far it's has not been good. So I don't know that's it. I don't know if I have to say anything else. Thank you. I don't see anything about your communication style. My communication style is I'm direct and I feel like this

[26:00] society, it's kind of hard. There are a lot of hypocrisy here and it's it's kind of hard to even communicate with people because sometimes when you say the truth, they think it's rude. And sometimes when you try to communicate, say, OK, this is reality. They try to return it to you to say, oh, you are sensitive. And I don't know, I feel like I'm still working on that to make sure that it's how to make it better. But you can always expect the truth from my boss. So hi everyone, I'm I am attorney. I am voters deputies in attorney. I've only been for since January.

[27:00] I've been seven years on the bench. I was a state District Court judge. Aside from this job, I've also in the United States Air Force and I have left kind of the role as an Air Force officer. I am a federal judge in the United States Air Force on the Air Force according appeals in Washington, C. Some of my work is here and my work. CI am also an adjunct professor of law at both CU Boulder and School of Law. I didn't have much in the way of motivation. This is this is just what I do. I'm assigned to to help you. But I do love the mission. This is something that is great. I moved when I moved to Colorado years ago. I spent my first ten years opening up free legal clinics

[28:02] for the four for immigrants, for victims of domestic violence. So this type of work is is very important in my mind, something that I have my communications style in Group meetings. English is not my personal language and there are lots of words that I cannot say in English. And so I have to use certain occlusion. And so often I think about what I want to say before I say it. And I've also worked with interpreters for many, many, many. They've always appreciated that. But anyway, that's that's one thing about Christian Phillips, Community Relations Senior project manager.

[29:07] My motivation for stepping into this role. I have a background in social Human Services. Most recently, before I came to the city, worked at Emergency Family Assistance Association that may Resource Center for Boulder and I came into eviction prevention as well as HP administrative justice team within the city. I've noticed in my role in providing a, the service that I was there to provide for eviction prevention, mediation or anything like that, but also I, I many clients come back with different questions for how to navigate the government system in general. And so my, oh, I have to say thank you guys for being here

[30:57] and it's good to meet you and you because where I'm not at, I

[31:59] know we communicated a lot by e-mail.

[32:40] Here's what I wanted to say to you guys. So I think, you know, I'm probably the oldest member here, but I have to, I want to make sure you know, that I'm like a 2 year old still like trying to walk, learn Bach at the same time. So when I first joined the HRC, it was I thought if you read the

[33:01] ordinance, it tells you that it's a body of his own and there are a lot of initiative you can take and do to make it better. And since I became the chair, I've talked to past chairs and I've talked to people even from when the HRC first became a a thing. So the thing I've learned is, is that time has changed. Like you all know, like you have gone your different interests, you know when you change, when time, you know, progressed. So the city got more people and there are more permissions and boards and committees. So The thing is, I don't know the problem, you know, with the people that I've talked to. I just want to make sure I straight up with you, but to understand because I feel like it's been in the dark mostly because nobody talks about it. I don't know if it's the audience that needs to change of

[34:02] if it is us that needs to create a situation where we can be more useful to the city. But I think what the HRC was when it was created, it's not the same. And I've been talking to a lot of people to see what has changed. And so far what I can tell you is that there are a lot of work the HRC used to do that has been redirected. I don't know if that's the correct word to use to different thing that's been created over time, but no one has probably sat down to think that OK, we create this mission or board or committee to take care of that situation. OK. And the interesting is to do that. So how does that affect us? So I think as a first, you know, Paulo that lives in Boulder,

[35:03] nobody will come out and talk for me if I, if I experience discrimination or racism, whatever it is, if I don't talk about it and everybody, nobody would even care because it happens to me, it doesn't happen to anybody else. So my, my, my goal was to just tell you all as new members that OK, I've been here for four years almost or more. When I first joined the HSC, the last piece of it just did I call it legislation or what do you call it or did penis They worked in it was I think 3 or 4 years before me and that was to promote the universal bathroom and building. Since then I've been here. We have not done a thing the last thing we were supposed to work on. I, me and another member that it's not part of the HRC

[36:01] anymore. We work on it really hard for like Paul will be over. I will say 60 hours. It was about the homeless and housing the kid to the City Council pretty much. I think there was a guy, I don't he still works there. I don't remember his name. I don't want to say his name too, but he was like part of something he kind of really gave us and I'm direct. Like I said, I'm not trying to be disrespectful. The effort with what we found out. So I felt really disrespected by it. And I did send him an e-mail about that because, you know, I have two kids, I'm volunteering here. I can spend my time doing way better things. I'm a business, I charge a lot. If I spend 60 hours at my business, that's a lot of money. But when you put that time, that energy that I will say focus on something to change and somebody grab your work and pretty much just RIP it and throw it in the trash out of them. That's fair. So I don't know how we can make it better.

[37:00] I don't know how, but my understanding of it is that a lot of the work we used to do has been redirected. And I'm not going to say like a few people that I talked with saying maybe the goal of the city is to dismiss the HRCI. Don't know. I can say that he's a lawyer. He probably can tell us more about it since he's a city lawyer or how he can redirect us to understand, OK, how we can still be a body and still type of city even though we may not be having the same force or or push that we use to help the city. Where? Because right now, I think if you look at it, since the HRC has been created, there are about 11 more commissions and on the committees that created that takes works away from us, but nobody ever talk about it. We do join. I join and then we have meetings after meetings and we never

[38:03] accomplish anything. So my thing is, is like, OK, as a body, tonight is probably the time. How do we focus on making us a the mission that does what the ordinance tell us to do? And what I'm going to say, it's not going to be like part of a situation where I'm creating conflict. I've talked to an old city manager that was the city manager probably for the longest time, 15 years, and I talked to a few people that refer them to HSCS in the 90s. It's like right now, even the process of the work has changed. In the past, the interest he used to communicate to City Council, but now we have to go to staff. And sometimes the problem with it is it's like the communication doesn't go the way you want because staff has to

[39:02] work on it to make it what they want to make the City Council happen. So I said changes has to be made the right way. And if we are following the ordinance, I think we have to follow it. If we don't have to follow it, it has to be. If there have to be some changes, we have to make it the right way. But that's pretty much what I want to say. Thank you. There we go. OK. Yeah. Can I have that one more thing? Yep, absolutely. I'm talking about one more thing. I don't want it inside. One more thing I want to do is decide that, like I said when I first phoned the HRC, the process, you know, it's not too

[40:03] long. It's four years ago it was different. You walk in and they may have a meeting to welcome you. And at that meeting, you have the city lawyer, you have the City Council, three members of City Council. And when you get in, the meeting was about an hour and a half. And they tell you, you go to your audience and stuff like that and what is what you are allowed to do and not allowed to do. So one thing I want to say is that still, I still don't know where my right starts or ending or when my power starts or ending. And I don't know if you guys know it, but you know, I've read a lot, talk to a lot of people and see, but still, it's a, it's a mystery. So the other part of it was when you get in, like let's say when you before you joined the HRC, if you read what they put out

[41:05] for you to join, it tells you, Oh yeah. And you will be working with the City Council, you will be working with everything. But I have to tell you, after four years being here, I've met with two City Council that wasn't me. City Council never asked for assuming anything. And I think we have asked to do this. They refuse. So I'm not saying we are in dead permissions. But at the same time, I feel like, OK, how do we ask? Like now as a new generation change that. So it's something to think about, right? Thank you, JH. So what I'm going to jump into here is kind of like the big picture on Housing and Human Services, where we are housed,

[42:02] for lack of a better term, into the Commission that is formed by you all. And then after that, Roberto's gonna go through a discussion on the ordinance, as well as specifically the commission's role in enforcing the ordinance. So we can hopefully give you some clarity on the commission's role, potentially touch on some of the things that JH just mentioned there, and then also answer questions that you might have. So if you have questions during my part here, feel free to just raise your hand or jump right in. I would love for it to be sort of free flowing there, So let me know. So this is, yeah, just a quick intro to Housing and Human Services. Our mission statement is all Boulder community members

[43:03] deserve to thrive housing and Human Services provides resources, community connections so everyone can experience. Boulder has a just, inclusive and equitable community. Our department goals are affordability and inclusivity and how we work towards those goals are through direct services such as eviction prevention, family resource schools, which are teams that we have embedded in BBSD schools within the city to provide supports to families. Older adult services, you may know our senior centers, a number of other services I won't go into necessarily, as well as investments in the community such as non profit agencies that are serving the community, community activities or initiatives with some significant community impact

[44:00] such as homelessness and affordable inclusive housing. So within housing and Human Services, we have you all, the Human Rights Commission. And so the Commission was created in the late 1960s, written into the bolder revised codes 2-3-6 that seated 5 community members, reflecting the various social, economic, ethnic, racial and religious segments of the city with the goal of fostering mutual respect and understanding and serving as a vehicle for suggestions on city policies, social problems, advising and assisting the city government, and relating human and social services to the needs of the city residents. Some of examples of previous work that the Commission has

[45:03] done, sort of from its inception up to fairly recent times, has included passing amendments to the Human Rights Ordinance, which Roberto will speak on a little bit here. Compiling reports on specific Boulder populations, supporting community events to promote awareness of human rights issues within the city, and then the quasi judicial role, which again, Roberta's gonna go through as well. The commissioner staffed through Housing and Human Services, through the Housing and Human Services Department with guidance from the city Attorney's office, which Roberta is a representative of. Questions on those two things.

[46:02] Going off of what JH was talking about in terms of the evolution of the Commission, can you speak more to the relationship between City Council, city staff and human Relations Commission? We're gonna pump that one over to Elizabeth who can speak a little more eloquently about that. So as written in the in the code descriptions of your work and the City Council process that engages with with all boards and commissions of which citywide there are more than 30. I forgot the exact number, but there's a lot the work of a border Commission can come across in several different ways. At the base level, when account City Council asks the Commission

[47:00] to take on a specific issue or topic and to help advise staff or council on that issue. There are also scenarios where city staff from our department, but also from other departments may reach out to a board or Commission and ask for your help providing direct guidance as HRC members about that topic. Sometimes to participate with other boards and commissions on a particular set of topics or issues to affect decisions. And then in some cases, and this is actually happening right now, to help provide input to city staff and consultants about the city's board and Commission process. So that's something some of the issues that JH brought up are, are, are issues that other boards and commissions have been

[48:03] bringing up as well for a while, right? It's, it's, it's not a unique issue to this particular Commission and that staff have observed as well. And so right now the city is in maybe year 2, I believe, of a very detailed, comprehensive assessment of all of its swords and commissions and how they may be able to work better. Because that at its core, the function of you is to, of your role is to help really make a, a more democratic process, right? So help really serve as those liaisons with community members and advise on a, a wide range of city decisions. So that can happen in many different ways. Annually, the commissioners or boards and commissions tend to provide letters to City Council to inform their retreats when

[49:05] they're trying to think about what their priorities are for the upcoming year. Sometimes that happens on a regular basis and sometimes it doesn't because City Council doesn't always start from scratch every year, right? There are topics that they choose to prioritize that will take several years to address. And so there have been some changes and that's a little bit flexible or fluid based on when they really invite that to come from boards and commissions. But you know, the commissioners can and board members reach out to City Council as a body when you want, right? There's nothing prohibiting that. Most recently it was I think back in April and you 3 will help maybe remember maybe March or April when you most recently

[50:02] sent a communication to City Council. And that was when Christine was still on the Commission, if you remember that, And it was raising up some of the issues that GH described. So that can always happen. But City Council doesn't always reach out directly to boards and commissions every year and say, hey, we want you to advise us or provide guidance on this, this, this, this and this. Sometimes that comes from city staff, like the minimum wage discussion most recently, and there have been others as well. So hopefully that that answers your question, but OK, very cool. See, Yeah, OK. The main is the But I said Garcelle Consejo Municipal Moses the reuniones on the ASI persona del Consejo Municipal Uno como

[51:07] Commissioner puede puede en la reunion de la de salerio minimo. Yeah. Yugo dos personas de El consejo municipal ES cucharon de ceras cerca de. Thank you. Moving along. Moving along. I'm going to pass it off to you, Roberto, if you want. I can drive. Yes, please. OK.

[52:04] The ordinance that gives you the power to do what you do contemplates 3 general types of discrimination, Discrimination and housing, whether that's in rentals, sales, employment discrimination. And that could be in hiring practices, that could be in in employment conditions, it could be in wage staff. These are all the types of of claims that we've reviewed. And then the final one is public accommodation. And before we go any further, I'm going to share 2 very personal stories.

[53:05] Are any of you familiar with the Larimer Square area of Denver? There was a a coffee shop called The Market. It's there for decades. And there was a group of us, every Friday morning, 7:00 AM, we would get together a group of professionals. At that time, I was the the chief prosecutor for the entire United States. One of the other members that was there was the US attorney for the District of Colorado under President Obama. We had a Colorado Court of Appeals judge, a federal District Court judge. So professionals, so we would gather every Friday morning,

[54:02] 7:00 AM to practice our Spanish. Wonderful. And and the gentleman who worked behind the counter, Ernie, after a while, he saw what we were doing and he wanted to practice his Spanish. And one day I walk in and he sees me and there's a a guy, another customer to the side and I walk in and Ernie sees me, he says. And this guy who's standing on the side, I'm noticing and he's getting angrier and angrier as we continue our conversation. He's not an employee and he tells Ernie do not serve this

[55:04] wet mess. And he looks at and he says you are in American, you need to learn English. I have a bachelor's degree, a master's and a doctorate. I have a post doc and again, I am the chief prosecutor for the United States Air Force. So we're going to pause right there. Think about that in in terms of public combination. Ernie did by writing. Have any of you heard of a town called Bordentown, NJ? What? Bordentown New Jersey? If you have a chance, Google it.

[56:01] Google Bordentown NJ races Bordentown. It has a history. Just this most recent, just a couple years ago, their chief of police was arrested for violations of civil rights of racist activity. Anyway, at this point I am a special prosecutor for the year. Of course, I have been sent to New Jersey to go try a case and I tried the case. It's over. It's Friday afternoon and I drive to this town that I had never heard of but I heard had good restaurants. And I go to this Italian restaurant and I have a great meal and but it was too much and I got a this gold plate and I'm walking to my rental car.

[57:00] And as I'm getting to my rental car, I see this ice cream shop. This is homemade ice. And so I put my food away and I go and I walk in and as I'm walking in, there are two ladies also walking in, one coming straight at me, one crossing the street. I open the door, they walk in, I walk in and the ice cream shop is to the left. There's also a deli. And it's kind of like a comedian store. And myself and one of the other young ladies walk up to the to the ice cream area. The other one goes to the top and, and I said I would like some ice cream. And this lady looks at me shocked and she says we're closed and, and I'm looking around and there are people.

[58:11] And so I, I, I don't move and she decides to help the, the many people standing next to me. And when I don't leave, she says I'm 10 seconds away from calling the police. And it's very clear that I do not look like anybody else. And, and the lady that was getting ice cream, I thought was going to say something and she did, she looks at me and says, get out. It's like anyway, so those two things kind of the backdrops of public conditions. So our ordinance, I want you to imagine those two same scenarios

[59:03] happened here. Before we get any further reading this, the prohibitions, do any of you think that either one of those two is a violation of our workers or both of them or neither? What do you guys think? Yes, I would say the second one is definitely a violation because that's somebody who's offering you a service. It would be harder for me to predict whether the first one is. Yeah, yeah, just the the second one, definitely. I'm unsure about the first one.

[60:00] Does anybody agree that the first one maybe, maybe not. Does anybody want to be heard on that? I'll make it clear. I think it's it's a personal decision about your field. You said you have been going there for how long? Many, For many, many knowings. The guy knows you. So if he decided to do that, it's either there was some kind of prejudice, something that happened, somebody you know knows you, or something you have with them. Or I would say, yes, it is valid in the audience because you come there all the time, they know you, the guys still serve you. Like you say, that's your choice. Just say, but you had another choice. The other choice you had was again, I could definitely make a complaint and follow up on not what's your choice?

[61:01] Nobody will make you do what it's like. Yes, I don't think it's up to us. I think it's up to you to tell us how did you feel bad then if you felt violated? Because that's these are mostly I feel like they're personal life experience. Like you walk in a door. I will give you an example. I walk in a restaurant here one time with my friend. My friend walk in the guy who was at the door, he didn't say anything, nothing. I walk in, he said how can I help you? Be honest with you. I was offended by it before I said anything. My friend said why did he didn't ask me? So yeah, I don't know if that makes sense to you. No, I'm sure in front of me. He didn't ask. I just walk right behind it and we were together. Is that a violation? Yes. For me it is. Can can I go back to you? Why is that first scenario more problematic And and and you're

[62:01] you're on something based on the way that this is written. Yeah, because it seems that this is saying that you can't be discriminated for public accommodation, which means you still got your coffee served, like the business not discriminated. You sell your friend Ernie, and that even outside of this still, like, hateful things can be said to you, right? It was not the employee of the business. It was not a representative of the business that treated me as. So let's go, OK, so let's go to that. The the second scenario, the complaint has to be filed within the statute of limitations within a certain amount of time. If it's a housing issue, it's one year, unemployment issue, half a year.

[63:01] This situation would be 60 days. So within 60 days I would have had to file this complaint. Sorry, to clarify the first one, the second, second, this is what our ordinance says has to be in there. I did not get the name of the lady behind the counter, but I could say it was, and I know this for a fact. 50 PM on on Friday and she was the one working behind the counter. I provide what I'm alleging. The facts are the date and and what a clue. OK, so I filed that. It goes to Christmas. He looks it over, he makes sure that everything in there that is required under the ordinance is in there.

[64:02] It's a proper as on the information. Then he is required to send it to that ice cream shop, Which shop is that ice cream shop that oh, that area. And before he gets into the investigative stage, tries to see if there's something that he can do, maybe get both sides together. If the ice cream shop, if the ice cream shop is willing to do that, have everybody sit down, maybe go through a mediation process. That's the first step is what our ordinance says to try to work it out informally. However, let's go to the next one. Let's say it's a situation where one of two things happens. Jason pregunta en este caso Torres ES de legal pero

[65:04] cuirasido na persona illegal puede tambien meter La La queja. So does does the identity of the victim matter? It does not. If you are here undocumented and you are working in whatever capacity you're working for cash under the table, it does not matter because when somebody withholds money for a service that you provided, a legal service that you provide, that is that that is what waives that and the law does not care who

[66:05] you are or what your status is. Does that make sense to you? Is the when the doctor was supported like a in este caso con Christian? I have yet to see a claim where that would be a relevant question. So I cannot imagine a situation where where Christian asked him a claimant that question. It wouldn't even be relevant.

[67:01] Everyone wants it's the so going back to to the situation, Christian calls the the ice cream shop and they say we're not going to work with you. Go to hell so Christian does not have to go through that mediation process if he does not believe it will be useful. Yes. Are there who were discriminated against don't want to go through a mediation and want a full investigation instead? Sure. If somebody tells Christian, look, there is you're, you're just going to be wasting your time. Can you just please do the investigation. That's certainly that's certainly a valid.

[68:04] If I can add to that in the complaint form that someone is filling out online, it asks if they're willing to mediate. Yes, no, and that's the information that I use. Now Christian becomes an investigator and he has to determine whether there is probable cause that is sufficient basis to believe that the discrimination. And he'll interview witnesses, he'll go to the scene, he'll maybe reinterview the complainant. He's going to do a lot of things to try to get AT did this happen? If it happened, is there an explanation?

[69:01] If there isn't, did this violate our witness? If it did, then Christian's going to try to eliminate this violation by an agreement once he makes his findings. These are my findings of fact. These are my conclusions of laws. I find on behalf of the city of Boulder that the ice cream shop violated this. Then an agreement is signed. This is how we're going to run. This person behind the counter is now going to take some classes. Or as it turns out, we ended up firing her, whatever it is, but that is the process. Can I ask a question? Yes. So both people need to sign a sworn Finder from the swarm.

[70:08] Yeah, David, No, Why not? Because that's not the way the ordinance is written. And here's 1 Sir, you had you and I said correct. Let's say that he fills out a statement, science sworn statement and it's ability. If he just fill it, it doesn't need to be sure if he just right, if he just feel it, it's not a strong statement. I'm saying I I fill it out and I sign it. Yeah. So in this scenario is a sworn state, can I accept it? Yeah, Yeah. And that certainly provides some weight.

[71:01] He is signing this under the penalty of perjury. And there's something. But let's give another scenario. And I sit down, hide under their books and, and I'm talking to Aaron and I'm asking Aaron questions. And every time I I ask him a question, he looks down, he looks away, he doesn't look and he's evasive. And so a lot of times this could be a lot more useful to me to gauge somebody's credibility than a sworn statement. Is one more important than the other? Not necessarily, they're just different. But the ordinance to answer the question does not require

[72:06] promise you. So that means you can determine, for example, if Erin is lying to you. I can gauge credibility, enunciation, demeanor, redirection of the conversations, nervousness. I can tell you that we disagree on that. OK, that's there.

[73:01] I think the liars are good here. You're well, good. And I'm and my problem was what interested is is that, and I'm not telling you you're not smart. That's not what I'm saying. I want to make sure I say clear. I found a few conversation with a few, but I used to think that was that word. You know, you talk to them, you see them driving a BMW, they tell you stories, they look at the straight on their they ask you to borrow money and you loan it to them and everything. You know, it's like, oh, the BMW was bound. The money we lawn today was not for disease, it was for drugs.

[74:04] I don't see any how you can just look at someone. Let's put it clear and let's be honest with each other. That's why we have I think a process like it's not always so 100. He doesn't take what I put it doesn't work 100% think that's why you know there is a statue in the justice system. It's a woman who said how do you call that makeup blindfold blindfold. And that's why I think evidence counts. If you come to Aaron, you just look at Aaron and you know you don't know Aaron and then I you come to thicker until thicker alive. You know I'm talking to you. You don't look at me in the eyes. Some people are shy and some people have a different immune and you make figure sign a paper and you just look at Iran

[75:01] because Iran is chill and and understand it's just reality. I think the violence as a judge, the lawyer and someone who is part of the you know, it's just in that I respect a lot and I know it's a process here. It's different than than like a good CD or you go we argue what it is instead of laying evidence for a show that. So if you just talk to Christian thicker signed a paper, there's nothing thicker can do encounter your word will count on. It's a translation of what it said to you, not what he said you've written up all why you agree for him to sign. I don't know if I'm if my English is good enough to explain, only understand. I'll give you an example.

[76:00] Our system of justice, criminal justice, civil justice, where we ask a group of citizens to sit as jurors. They listen to testimony, they watch latencies. They do not get a transcript of everything that was said, take notes on their own, and then they get an instruction from the judge that says you are the sole determiners of the facts. You are to determine the facts based on the credibility of the witnesses. You may believe all of their statements, none of their statements, some of their statements, things you are to consider are demeaned what they have to gain or lose. Which site called the witness. So our country has a history of that.

[77:06] Is that why the ordinance is written that way? I I don't that's, but the ordinance does not require evidence gathering by sworn written statements. So I filed the complaint. Christian tried to mediate it. Christian did his investigation. He found there was no discrimination against it. So he dismisses the complaint on behalf of the city. I am not satisfied, so now I get to request a hearing in front of all the people. So let's go to this hearing.

[78:00] This is your quasi judicial function. You all sit as judges. He holds a hearing to determine whether he got it right. You go ahead, you have the authority to swear people in, to issue subpoenas that people do not want to show up. You can order them to show up. You can rule on evidence, rule on discovery, and then you have the power to issue final orders. You follow the the civil rules that I can get you follow the the Civil Rules of evidence procedure.

[79:07] Although not all hearsay may be considered, it's one of those that you can consider and you determine things just like in a civil hearing by a preponderance of the ethics. Some people say that's like 51%, some people say more likely than not, but that would be your decision. Once you make your decision, that is the final decision on the matter at the municipal level. If you were to rule against it, my only recourse is to file lawsuit against UUSM City in a civil District Court here in

[80:01] Boulder Council under 1068. May I ask a question? Of course. OK, so you know in the case of an appeal, you use that word probably 4 times since you after you said that the word of evidence. Right, let's say and something Aaron did. OK, right now we're in front of all the follow-ups. What evidence do I have about Aaron? I'm still here in front of all of us. Where is that evidence going to come from? Testimonies. So for example, if the board wants to hear from Aaron, they 00 PM at this location and we will take testimony. You can consider the written documents and so on or you can

[81:02] order it to show up. Other questions. That's it for me. That's that's your rules. Oh yes. I wonder, Roberto, if you wouldn't mind just sharing a little bit if, if this happens were to happen, what kind of guidance do staff provide any charge for members in that we're not, you know, like a jury, right? Like not legal experts, but you just share a little bit about. And just to say, I don't even remember we'd have to research the last time the HRC served in this role. It certainly has happened at some point. It's not common, but just curious since we're kind of talking about. I also represent the liquid Voices and we do these every month.

[82:01] Every month there are hearings that follow the quasi judiciary process when there is an allegation that a bar is sold to an underage by rules staff will do all your admin work. Hey, we need a subpoena. We need you to send out notices. We need you to prepare X to get us ready for this. Find us a space, find us all of these things. That's that part of staff me. You determine we have these legal questions like what elements? What is the law? What are we supposed to apply? I provide you all of this. Then you decide in what order you want to call witnesses.

[83:03] Either you or a member of the staff will swear in each witness. You swear under the penalty of perjury of the statements you're about to make of the And then you get to ask them questions. If they are represented by an attorney, the attorney will do some questioning, but normally you will also have questions that you want to ask. You get stuck, you ask us questions. What's the next step? What's whatever it is that's on your mind? You ask us. We responded. That is the role that I will ask Question please under motive that come to you. I want to say somebody slop me. It was straight.

[84:02] And I say to you that crying, would you leave my vote only or would you check to see if there's camera out there, check my face? Just would you just build in my words on it because I'm crying. So you are the victim of an assault, assault. And you come to me as a lawyer. Yeah. To represent me, to file some kind of lawsuits. All right. In that situation, I would use your your word and gather any evidence that I can't see that. So that's why I feel like it's, it's important to have evidences when someone says something. It's like let's say I say to you once when I get slapped, you

[85:00] don't have any evidence out there. You will trick the camera. I do believe because your license is on the line as a lawyer, you can lie. So you invite me in that. Well, that's where I'm telling you when you tell me. Oh, me, I found something. You could talk to Christian by just standing there having a beer and And I don't know how to explain it to you. Believing someone won't No dates for me. That's the worst. I have so many people working my door. You shook their heads. OK, you help them. And I'm not going to say you you when they pay full price. They started telling you stories. My kids are sick, my wife is at the hospital assistance. My boyfriend just got out of jail. We need a call and you do $2000.00 of work.

[86:03] And they said, oh, you know what? I have to hear it all. I'll pay you every two weeks, every three weeks to hear the bus you call. In fact, the first thing they say, I don't know if that ever happened to you, to me, they'll say you're harassing me. So my whole thing about it is just I say like as a lawyer, that's why I ask you this question and evidence and with a statement that matters and I'll be fair, will be fair. That's the only thing you can hold. It gets someone. You just say it earlier. You say he say. Can we consider? Do you remember that? It's his section. But if there's no facts, your words. OK.

[87:00] I understand When I do something and I know how it is. It's OK if I take 2 minutes to tell us. No, I'm just gonna explain it. So yes, before you do that, before you do that, let me say one thing. I'm gonna say one of them. This is the beauty of having five of you. You want to see something great. Maybe you want to look at somebody in the eyes. Maybe you will not consider hearing something. Maybe you're somewhere in the middle. And that's why all of you have a collective voice. And it's the words. Go ahead, I'm going to tell you a quick story. In 2014, I was driving my car on board, no issue.

[88:02] I didn't know somebody was following me. I didn't know somebody was trying to play some game against. I stop. I stop. Like next thing I know and somebody comes to my door and I say give me your driver's license. Understand? Somebody got painful. The first thing I said is **** you. I did. The next thing I know, a gun was on my head. I handed him my wallet. He said to me, make a left turn. I want you to hear that. He said to me, make a left turn and pull the **** over. By the time I make the left turn I see a cop car coming. I want you to understand what I'm going to say to you so that will make really more sense. Cop car call me. The cop park behind me. He broke me around the cop call me. The cop asked me what happened.

[89:02] I should just ask him if he has my wallet. He has everything he needs. Cop came when they talk to him and get back and talk to me. Do you know they deleted the the audio? How can you hear me? They deleted the audio and the cop camera. My word versus his word didn't get me anywhere. It's ended up not getting me anywhere. Oh, that making any sense to you? So my whole thing with you is I don't think we should work that way. My word understand versus his words because there was no audio and the video I couldn't get anywhere. You go to court with him, you know they're in the city.

[90:05] The guy said he didn't pull a gun on my hatch. We tried a camera. There was no camera in on Valdo in in Foothills. That camera is there only if there's a lot of traffic and they'll save the videos. We went all the way down to 47 to get a video. You can see where he got out of his car to come to my car, but there was no audio. We couldn't see the gun because he's standing next to my dog. So my thing is, is that that's one thing we should consider. The only thing you can hold against somebody. He's a witness statement, not translation from me to her. Understand. English is not my first language. I could say something should translate a different one. And people are without lying here. I'm telling you. Well, I've seen it. And they're arrogant when they're lying. You're thinking about looking at you in the eyes.

[91:01] I have guys that lies to me about The thing is right in my hand. In fact, don't want to fight them because so and I think in that case, I hope next time we have any case here. We have wheat and stick made from both parties. It's not one because that's the only way we can hold the weight, you know? That's why we're on the balance and the justice. What do you call it? Like a scale. I can tell you anything. Looking at you straight on your eye. You don't know me. You don't remember. In fact, if I know you're coming, I'll be prepared to tell you anything you want to hear. It is. It's a but if there's evidence or of my Rd. against your roads that is away, do at least, you know, see

[92:04] something that'll be fair. That'll be fair. This concludes my portion, I think. Yeah, we're gonna take a quick 5. You'll want to a quick break call. Let's get your hand up, son. Las ocho de la noche ET doce yo queria preguntar yo estoy la totalia de querrero. Yeah, I'm fine to stay. Well, that JH is just calling his children real quick.

[93:01] So if anybody does need to use the rest of the room, let's just take a moment and then also continue. Are you good, Christian? How much longer do we have? I can in 20 minutes. Yeah, I can RIP through. Thank you. OK, got you. Oh, sure. Thank you, Silver. You know, is it possible we really can give us a little bit about, like what I'll talk about how do we proceed? I know you've been here in six months. Is that correct? Yeah, because I remember when you did San Jose and I feel like get back again.

[94:05] I'm not going to get it back again where you know, and say and say quick clarification, because when we're kind of walking around, then it's the interpreters can't interpret. So we're going to have to try to make the right. Yeah, we'll take just a well, why, why don't we just take a couple of minutes so people can kind of get what they need and then we'll start again. That's good. Where's tonight's food from? Modern market. Modern market. Potatoes, Right. Everything was amazing. Heard that. Thanks, Tiffany. Yeah, yeah, yeah, like 15 minutes. The work plan thing is very important. Like one of my uncles.

[95:02] Yeah. Oh right, yeah, I'm right there. Let's see in the 7th. So Adams and anything you all don't need is I need to have to take a call. So going going a little bit by a little bit of that talent, you picked the right seat. I said you picked the right seat. Someone's done this before when we started the party.

[96:16] We search our the the changes in all the real estate regulations. But yeah, so I don't know now that I have no clue, it'll be very interesting. Elizabeth, I have no clue right now. It's very, very interesting, but it's kind of kind of nerve wracking. Yeah.

[97:01] Yeah. Thank you. Yeah, No, thank you. I know it's really insane, but we'll just have to see how everything plays out for you for interest rates going down, good interest rates are falling. But what it was like was talking about is there was a new law that just went into effect that says that Realtors, the way we get paid is through Commission and the seller often paid for both buyer and seller Commission. But now they're saying that buyer so buyers would have to pay, which is going to be very tough of buyers getting into the market, let alone trying to pay their agent. So it's very interesting being a thank you everybody for

[98:04] reminding me of the different things that I need to do. Also, this is my first time, my first time doing this type of thing. So I appreciate the reminders to record, stop recording, mute, unmute all that stuff. So I appreciate you what I am going to do. What's this changes here we go is run through the data that I have available on claims that our office, my office has received. And so the info that I have readily available goes back to yes to 2021. Just making sure I didn't skip ahead.

[99:00] And so I'm gonna give you some just bird's eye view. These are the claims that we've dealt with. This is what we're looking at and some are the distribution. Just a disclaimer here, our data tracking mechanism has not been the most perfect. And so you're gonna see some drastic jumps that I'll talk about here in a couple minutes. And that has a lot to do with the work of my predecessor, Ingrid, who a lot of you worked with and sort of really implementing and tidying up our practice here. So as you're seeing on the screen here, 2021, we had a total of 18 claims or inquiries, meaning not every all of those eighteen data points resulted in a like formal claim that got mediated or investigated. The blue section here represents claims or inquiries related to

[100:03] housing. The yellow portion right here is employment related claims. Red right here would be a failure to pay wages or wage theft claim and then green is gonna be oops, I've flip-flopped that red is public accommodation and then the green here is failure to pay wages claims. And so that's what we had. I don't have on the screen too that were not applicable. Those could be something like somebody calling from a different jurisdiction with questions on what the ordinance is or something like that. That doesn't fall into any of these categories. Moving into 2022, we have about 20 claims or inquiries this

[101:05] year. Interestingly, two were related to housing, 10 were employment, eight were public accommodation and then as far as I can tell there was not a failure to pay wage or wage theft claim. So that is a much different distribution there moving into 2023. So last year, this is where you see a marked increase in claims. We went from 20 and 2022 to 63 in 2023 and that is an error on my part. It should say claims and inquiries. All of these are claims or inquiries. We saw 19 in housing, 17 in employment, 7 in public accommodation, 8IN failure to pay wages and then a number that

[102:05] are didn't fall into any of those categories but wanted to just shout them out there. We had 9 where there was unclear what it was the caller was reaching out about and many times there was not follow up or like conversation around that. It was like we get a voicemail or I get an e-mail, something like that follow up For more information. No response accessibility or and migrant support are also not pictured. So just interesting to point out there and I think also an Elizabeth might be able to speak a little bit to this, a reflection of the outreach work that I'll jump into and I the next slide that was done by my predecessor in the community level work and trust that she had in the community.

[103:03] And I hope to continue here. Here's a look at this year to date. So up until about mid August we have about 28 total claims, aid in housing, aid in employment, 5 in public accommodation and four failure to pay wages claims. This is tracking a little bit behind last year's claims up to this point. We got about 38, so a little bit behind, which I find interesting and would love to hear your thoughts on how we might reach out to the community to at least make folks aware of the ordinance here and encourage folks who think or believe that they have experienced some type of violation of the ordinance to

[104:01] reach out. But just want to point out here sort of where we're at today. Carlos, did I see your hand go up? See your Kira is there, babe, E La La manera de de lliegar con estor de Lanza principalmente a la comunidad Latina que son Los que rein O estante me Rosso de de poneruna queja E dos ES en este caso yo que seria MI la war trabajar de personas esta comunidad. And I am hoping that we can work sort of hand in hand on that. Having trusted members of the community like yourself, like

[105:01] each of the commissioners here, as well as just people who are known and can be sort of eyes and ears in the community is always going to be better. A better way of getting in touch with somebody and sharing information than me with the Housing and Human Services lanyard and business cards and that kind of thing as a representative of the government for the exact reason that you're talking about, Carlos. And so that is actually a terrific segue into my last two pieces here. This is our current method of outreach into the community. And so we've done and I would do this in my previous role in partnership with Ingrid presentations to our community partners, nonprofits, public facing government agencies, offices that had contact with the general public to make them

[106:03] aware of our services and how to connect with us. We also attend and attend like mobile home community block parties at each of the mobile home communities typically each summer, although this summer was a different situation on our communications department. I work closely with to put out publications from the city on issues on events that are related to human rights issues. So a recent one for example, that we did or that we're working on would be Labor Rights Week, which is coming up at the end of the month reaching into September. And last but not least, Carlos, as you were mentioning their relationship and word of mouth and so relationship building

[107:02] with the community and that is really where I am interested in focusing some effort on, But I want to also hear from you. So I have a couple questions that we can go through briefly, but also in the interest of time, you're welcome to come back to this conversation later on at a different meeting. So if anybody has any thoughts that they would like to share right now, go for it. And if not, we can continue this conversation. I would just like to know from you what is missing from our current outreach approach and what materials or information would be helpful to you as a commissioner to get the word out about human rights ordinance in the clean process. I have one thing really quickly Christian. So really what what Christian is describing here, I just wanted

[108:04] to share is true for our whole housing and Human Services department. And that is that one of our strategic outcomes of the changes that we want to continue to make in our community are to make sure that everyone who is eligible for and can receive a service or a benefit that will help their help them to live a better life, a more, again, a more just, equitable, inclusive community. We want to make sure that they do receive that right. So it's not just enough to say this program exists and just see who walks through the door, but to really do whatever we can to make sure that everybody is aware and can, can utilize the process.

[109:00] So I just wanted to share that that is true for for us and it is true for the city as a whole, whether it's food or academic support or behavioral health services or, you know, help with preventing someone's addiction. And it's also true for this process. So just that's just one of our strategic goals. And part of how we measure that is by saying what activities are we doing to get out there and tell people about it and, you know, to have information back from folks like yourselves, community members to say, oh, I didn't even know that was the thing. Now I'm glad I know now I understand or I'm hearing that, you know, maybe I don't have to be afraid, right? I know I can reach out to someone and get my questions answered. So those are that's very difficult to measure over time,

[110:00] but those are some of the things that we try to do. So you're input on, you know, on these questions is is really helpful to us in accomplishing that. Thanks. Well, I think it's, I want to add one thing here which is quite good. I think it's good to do that. But at the same time, I feel like we that fall back to the same thing is from the beginning, what is our mission? How do you tell people to come in? And when you realize you have no power, you have no strategy, you have no structure, you come, you tell somebody, oh, I can help. They come in and they said, oh, no, it's not us, it's someone else. How do we fix that? First, to know, OK, the body is where, you know, it's like, put it in an air bar, you know, And if we go with the ordinance right now, it's not, I will say to be clear, 26 percent, 27 to

[111:02] 30% of it doesn't apply to us anymore. So my thing is, yeah, outreach to people, but you can't be selling a lie or something that's not there as well. I know part of it is there, I understand, but what about the rest? How do you sell somebody a product? It's like, how would I put it to you? It's like you go to Walmart and they sell you retired and tell you, you know how to take that example because I'm a mechanic. They sell you retired and say that go 40,000 miles. You do have to throw an iron back that's worthy 10,000 miles and you come back and they say, Oh no, it's not under warranty because you know, it still has some thread on it. Until it's on the wire, there's nothing you can do. So my thing is like, I understand to rich people, I sometimes want to help certain people, but my thing is it's like, OK, how can you do that? While us, you know, like I said, over the past, you know, seven

[112:01] years, we have not accomplished anything. Zero. We have meeting almost several months, but those meetings do not get us nowhere. So I understand Ingrid through the plan, but still, if you look at the plan, what have we done with it? Nothing do we know any of us is working on any piece of material to make anybody's life better here, probably personally, but not as a group. If somebody comes to him, he can contact me, he can contact Pittsburgh, he can contact Hughes, you know. But at the end of the day, how that any of us has an understanding of as a body what we're selling. And I, I hope you know, in a few months that I have left, This is the same right, because I might leave, you know, but you guys will be the ones that I probably the one of the most

[113:02] knowledgeable talk to a lot of people. But at the end of the day, you know, how do you keep that body functioning? When you reach out to people, they come, you know, and they realize, wow, what is that? I thought you said you could help sending to you, you know, I have to send you the one stop when they want to stop sending the other one. The other one said you did the arrow. And you got to a point where you realize, OK, this person look at me, you know, they will say, well, you didn't even know what you were talking about. So my thing is, I understand we're going to reach out to people. We can do all of those things, materials and information. But I think we need to redefine. And I'm not saying they should change the ordinance, but with all the changes that I had made in the last 12 to 13 years, we need to be consider that. I don't know if it's another retreat. So if we need to talk to the, you know, CD lawyer here and

[114:01] understand why, how do we fix that? How do we move forward? How do we we're useful? How are we like going to be, you know, you know, like I don't know. So I think that's valuable conversation to have and I appreciate you for bringing that up. That is it for me. I'm going to hand it over to a couple of quick comments on that. A couple of things. I mean from this. So it's not a regular meeting, your next month meeting what should be September, hard to believe. There are a couple of items right already kind of on the agenda from the conversation about human trafficking and a

[115:02] couple of other things that were talked about last month. If, for example, from this meeting, if you all, and you don't have to decide it right now, decide that you want to say, tell us more about the ordinance, where is it? You know, what are you observing? Again, not going into personal cases around privacy issues, but what are some of the things that are working well? What is not working well? Are there other cities that are doing different things with an ordinance? Again, there aren't very many that have municipalities, cities that have an ordinance like this. So there's not always a ready case for that. And I'm looking at Roberto to just tell me where I'm wrong. But you as a Commission could say we want to look more into this area then.

[116:00] I mean, what we've shared before and Ingrid and I have is, and you know, Christian shares this now as well. Roberto, our job as staff is to say the next step would be to reach out to City Council, to the city manager and say, here's what we would like to do. What do you think and get that input right so that you have that communication that you desire. What we don't want to have happen is any board or Commission or committee to be doing work that is not asked for and for which there's no, there's nobody ready to receive that. That's just frustrating for everybody. So we just don't, we would want to prevent that from happening. But if there are issues that you want to talk about that are different, it's our role to say, well, there's, you know, this is within your mission, this is within your scope. You wouldn't start advising, say we want to give advice on the regional transportation system, right?

[117:01] Like there's a different committee for that. But where is your role? And if it's right, if it's accurate, if it's within the scope, is there a, is there a City Council who's interested in hearing from us on that? If there is, then we as staff kind of have the green lights say, yeah, you, you can help the Commission work on that issue. So there are pathways forward for you to take on those initiatives. And you know, we, we don't, you know, none of you can say, Christian, I want you to go research, you know, this issue, Roberto, go do this thing right. That's where we have to have some agreement from City Council, a directive, something that enables us to work with you and, and to help serve your purpose. But there are ways to do that. And so I just wanted to share that our, you know, we try to provide guidance and support so that you can feel like you're

[118:02] having that positive impact and help that communication with City Council and others, other staff. I think on, on that. Yeah, I'm, I'm just curious to continue like learning this process of like better because. And I just wanted to drop this in before we finish the meeting, 'cause last, last meeting we talked about drafting up a letter to Tunaria. And so I drafted that up. JH gave it a thumbs up and, and Emily gave some really good feedback. And I've, I've adapted. And so I guess my curiosity and I was like, what, what do we do with that? We like say as it's like a whole like yes, send that letter. I'm just curious kind of how this process works and how to engage in it. Sure. So I think we'll, you can put that on the agenda for next month is the short answer. I'm trying to walk a line between a retreat and a business

[119:01] meeting right now, right? So, but generally speaking, once you all have agreement, then Christian and I can just help you. You can just say here's where you can send that communication or if you prefer, you can give it to us and we can send the communication out. But that would that would that's generally kind of the next the next step. Cool. So at the moment we're waiting to talk about it as a group. Is that a business? Great. OK, I'm just gonna get you away from the one by one again, Sunshine laws. So, so those are the kinds of things where if you all wanna talk about that, any of you, it's communicating with your chair and your vice chair, getting it on the agenda. If there's something that requires information or preparation for other people, if you're like, we really need Roberto at that meeting, Obviously we need to know that ahead of time so we can help make that happen, right?

[120:02] So that's where it's important for you all to communicate, you know, through with each other kind of 1 by 1, reaching out to these two. And and then when we set the agenda for the next meeting, that's that's kind of how that goes. So. There's that's there's a little bit of a method to the to the madness, right, of why we have to have that determined in advance. We have to let the media know in the community, what are you going to be talking about? So we can't make changes like right at the last minute. But if we know that if there are ideas that you want to move forward, we're here to help you, we're here to help you do that. Is that helpful? Anything you would wanna add to that in terms of process? Good question. Thank you. OK. Is it me?

[121:01] Is there any, is that it? Oh yeah. Work plan review. OK. So Speaking of this, so last year, meaning 2002, 2003, when we had the retreat in this same space, actually, if Carlos and JH and FICO will remember, we were talking with the HRC members about how we can help you kind of track these ideas, Like what are the topics, what are the issues that we're interested in pursuing? How do you as commissioners know month to month what community events you might want to go to, right? You don't have to spend all of your time if you don't want to, kind of only engaging in these meeting spaces.

[122:02] Part of your role, if you want, is to get out into community and go to events with, you know, name badge on and represent the HRC and listen to people and talk to people that that's another way, right, for you to, to be engaged as commissioners. And so we talked about, you know, and Ingrid put together a, a spreadsheet document where the, we're, we're just kind of tracking what those issues are. Was there a next step? Who said they were going to do it? Obviously every meeting we have minutes and very detailed notes that we send out in the packet. So you have that reminder. But we all know that sometimes, like, oh, where did I put those minutes? Who said they were gonna do that? And just having a really kind of short document will help. So that's still there for you.

[123:00] So every month when we have your, when you have your meetings, we provide a link to that kind of send it out ahead of time. And we heard from Carlos and JH that it's sometimes difficult to get access to that document. Like where's the link? Now I have to remember how to log, log in. There are challenges that we have and like sharing live documents. That's different than here's a copy and now we're gonna change it. Here's another copy, now we're gonna change it, here's another copy. So it is imperfect and it's a little bit flunky. So what we wanted to know from you is if there are just some other options for making that a document available to you that would be better for you. We are somewhat constrained by the technology that we have or that we can use as city staff.

[124:02] But if there are things that you would prefer that would make it easier for you to use this document, let us know. We can, We can listen now and you know, have some discussion with each other or again, if it's getting laid and you want to think about it, we can, you know, you can put it on the agenda for another meeting, put it on the agenda for another. One thing that I do at work, one thing that I do at work that I think is helpful is just linking it to every e-mail. Look at this document we want to use as a group. Just link it to every. And that way I'm not and that way I'm not like going back into the emails for them, looking for them. That would help me a lot. That would help me a lot. I don't know that would help some of the acts with other members, but I have a lot of different, I have a lot of different documents. So yeah. Yeah. And that would. And that would require using different technologies. Yeah. I think of every time we get an e-mail from Christian and Scott, like 5 if it's some useful information, they're always

[125:00] relevant to us. Definitely keeps a friend of mine. And it's like one thing and it's just a copy paste. That's for you in every e-mail. Yeah. Cool. Yeah, we can definitely try that. One of the, again, advantages of having that live document is that like very soon we'll be able to provide information on that document about Indigenous Peoples Day, for example. We're still kind of need to get information about some of those events in order to share back with you. And if we were providing a, a copy of the actual document, right, you if you saw it today, it wouldn't have that information and you'd have to wait till next month to get it. That's another thing we could do is just send out like here's another copy, here's another copy. You know, So what I'm seeing is that like that's not as

[126:03] effective, but we can do that. Or if any of you at any time say, hey, can you just send the current version to me by e-mail? We can. We can just do that. It's really whatever works for you. We can, we can do. So we'll try those two things. Anything else, Carlos, is there anything that would be helpful for you?

[127:02] I think I understood that. Do you want to respond, Christian, in terms of like extra program, I believe that may work. You're not in a microphone or say it in both. I I believe that would work. The, the challenge that we might get is if there's updates to the spreadsheet when you download it, you download that copy at that point in time. And so if I go in a week, two weeks later to add something, you won't see it automatically on your copy there because it's just like a static Excel sheet. So that is something that could work for like a snapshot in time. You'll need a updated new copy, which I believe we would tackle

[128:03] through attaching them to emails moving forward. So yeah, I think it could work. My encounter issues. So if you have issues with that, I'm just going to rely on your communication to let me know. Otherwise I won't know there's an issue. We're not changing that every day and nor would you, Right? So it wouldn't happen all the time, but we can try. We can try different things and truly just let us know if it's not useful for you, you don't have to use it, right? But it's really mostly for your purposes. So just let us know. I think that's all we had. Any closing comments for you I will share. We appreciate you all very much. We know that this is a lot of time in an evening and.