September 24, 2025 — Housing Advisory Board Regular Meeting

Transcript

[MM:SS] timestamps correspond to the YouTube recording.

[0:02] Great. Hello, everybody. Welcome to the Housing Advisory Board meeting for September 24th. Um, we are now calling this meeting to order, and I'm going to do a roll call. Phillip? Here. Lauren, here. Michael? Here. Karen, here. Karin? Here. Uh, Chip, are you dialing in? I am here via Zoom, sorry I could not be there with you guys in person. It's okay, glad you're here, and Cindy, are you here as well? Secret wants to have to say. Okay, so now I'm going to review the agenda. We're gonna… Approve the minutes from the last meeting. We will open it up to public participation. We will have matters from the board that will include the Bloomberg-Harvard City Leadership Initiative process. We'll talk about the Boulder Valley Comp Plan. We will discuss, have quarterly update to Council. We will review our work plan.

[1:09] You'll have matters from staff. And then final thoughts and suggestions, and hopefully adjourn at or prior to 9pm. Um, so I would like, um, a motion to approve the minutes. Okay? Lauren? Are there any comments or corrections? Okay, all in favor of approving? Okay, Chip? Bye. Okay, I am abstaining because I missed the last meeting. Great, thank you. Um, can we open it up, too? Is there anyone who wants to… Participate from the public? We do have a lot of members, uh, logged in. Okay. Go ahead and do the rules and see if anybody raises their hand. All right.

[2:18] All right, we just have a couple rules for, um… Moving engagement. Uh, so the city has engaged with community members to co-create a vision for productive. Meaningful and inclusive civic conversations. Also support the physical and emotional safety of. Everyone involved. Um, for more information, you can go to the City's website. And following examples are rules of decorum, uh, that are found in the Boulder Revised Code. These will be upheld by our chair during the meeting. Um, so a couple examples. All remarks and testimony. We request be limited to… Matters related to city business.

[3:00] Uh, no participant shall make threats or use other forms of intimidation. Speech or behavior that disrupts or otherwise impedes the ability to conduct a meeting. It's absolutely prohibited. And then, uh, we do ask you to use your name. Uh, that you're commonly known by, um, and please display that name if you're online. But currently, all the audience has money is per minute. That's it. Thank you. If it's time if you'd like to make a public comment, please use the Zoom Raise Your Hand feature. To be recognized. All right, Lynn? There you go! Yeah, um, I'm just getting out of the… fire candidates formed.

[4:02] And something has got to be done. About the housing situation here. I can't ever get to have meeting, because I'm sorry, others conflict. I follow five boards. Planning, OSBT, RAB, CAB, and landmarks. Can you hear me? Okay. Okay, um… Yes. I'm sorry, because HAB is the most important, and tomorrow. Morning, there is a, um, Barha meeting that I've been excluded from, and that everyone who's not a landlord. Or a realtor. Um, there's a sound here. Um, I'm at the… Canyon theater. Um… And everyone's been excluded. And… As well, I believe some candidates have been excluded, as were at the fire, um, meeting tonight, which is also a big issue for you, as its habitation have meeting.

[5:07] There were, um, 3… people that were excluded? From Bart Winstrom's private. Candidate forum. Um, the Barha, the most important issue we have in Boulder. For the candidates to be buying for is housing. And there is no candidates forms on housing that is public. This is outrageous, and I'm surprised that you're. Group hasn't done something about it. Um, I can't go to the meeting. I tried to sign up. They refunded my money, they said, you can't go, and they've denied certain council people that are gonna, you know, potential. Counselors, um, candidates. From going also. This is… completely fascist and unacceptable. Um, I suspect from what Bart said about the fire thing, it sounds like he is very… he was talking about the fire attack.

[6:07] Let me tell you something. I was 15 feet from the fire attack. I've walked with them every month for a year, every week for a year. I walk behind them with my Palestinian flag and kafiya, and my Free Palestine t-shirt, and a picture of a dead baby, and if that guy. Had not… that guy that did the fire attack had never heard anyone. He looked at me. He was intending to die himself too, but the fire blew back up on him. He ripped off his shirt, changed his plan. When he saw me, he did not deploy those other 16 Molotovs. That would have killed me and everyone else in that group, not just Karen. So this is a big deal in this community. It's overwhelming, and you've got to do something about housing issues. Thank you.

[7:04] Are there others? Lenoah, I just… Tiffany, are there other speakers? From the public? I told them what happened tonight here, and I said, this is a big issue for Boulder. Um, no one else has raised their hands. Okay, we're gonna close public participation. And we are now going to switch to matters from the board. So, um… We would love to hear from the folks who are going to talk about the Bloomberg-Harvard City Leadership. Initiative process and final portfolio of ideas. So, Holly? Right, here I go. Yay, thank you. Thanks for having me here tonight. All right, so I'm Holly Henderson, I'm with, uh, Housing and Human Services, the city.

[8:04] Um, and I'm here to talk about our innovation track, so… Um, the full name of this is, uh, quite a mouthful, as you saw in your notes, it's the Bloomberg Harvard City Leadership Innovation… City Leadership Initiative Innovation Track. Um, it was a year-long intensive. Leadership and management program, and it was hosted by, um, Bloomberg Philanthropies, Harvard University, the Center for Public Impact. And the Bloomberg Center for Public. Innovations. Okay, I think that's meeting everyone I need to. Um, so the process here went that, uh, mayors were invited. To apply for the program, and then choose a key priority for the city to tackle during this process. Um, so before I go into all the details, so I'll just say tonight I'm going to talk about the whole process. So, we were engaged with FIT for about 9 months, and so, like, there's a lot of details. There's a lot of process to cover, which.

[9:02] I think the process is really important in all of this, but, um, maybe it's oversharing, or maybe it's undersharing, so if there's any questions throughout, please just let me… let me know. Um, so I'll just start on this process. So, we, throughout this program, we followed this path to public innovation. Um, so it's this very intentional, very prescriptive path. For how we're looking at creating innovative solutions to our… to, you know, keep… key priority issues. Um, so I won't get into the details here. I kind of reference it throughout, kind of, which stage we were when we were talking about the process here, but. Um, I wanted to highlight it here to emphasize two things. One thing is that. Um, underlaid in all of this is, like, the resident voice and the resident experience. So, our task was really to figure out how to. Highlight and lift up that resident voice that we may not have typically incorporated in some of our solution findings.

[10:04] Um, and then the second thing I'll emphasize here is that. It is prescriptive. The path is very prescriptive. We… no matter how hard we tried, we couldn't incorporate any. Creative or different ways to go about. The process. So we were really, like… like to say, like, drag, like, very, very closely dragged along this, like, whether we liked it or not. So, um, so all of these, like, the… the… it was a very specific. Intentional path. We were, uh, brought on here. So, can I just ask a quick question? Are they testing out methodologies, or… Were they, like, already tested methodologies? Yeah, or were they, like, testing out this particular methodology? This had been done… so we were the 8th. Oh, wow. So they had done it at 7 times and stuff, yeah. Yeah, cities all over the world. Yeah. Which is really fun, like, there were cities from New Zealand and…

[11:05] Um… Yeah. Um, so the top of this, I guess you can't really see, uh, the little… the little path. My little path to innovation up top here, but the very… the very top of this was to. Identify an ambitious impact mission. Um, this was done, um, I think back in October, so almost a year ago, and this was the… Defined, ambitious impact mission. This was, like, our North Star throughout the whole process. We were just, like. Referring to this to make sure that all of our work is. Informed by this mission statement. So that is, by 2035. We will expand and sustain innovative, attainable housing options. So that folder becomes a more vibrant and inclusive community, reflecting people from all backgrounds. Uh, along with identifying that AIM statement at the very beginning, um, we needed a team to do it within the city.

[12:07] Um, so because it was housing-related, uh. Three of us at HHS were tapped to be on this core team. Um, but we also had team members from utilities, the city team… our city team made up of these people, so from. People from Stephanie Klingman from Utilities. Charles Farrow from PD&S. Uh, Sam Bromberg from Community Vitality. Um, and then on our core… core… core group that we regular… regularly met with, Chris Messchuk, and then Mike Toonsanti, and Richard Todd from the IT department. Um, so it was really, like, a wide… Um, we had representation and such different perspectives than I think we typically, um. Typically get from when we're working with HHS. So, the next, um, the next phase, um, under this.

[13:00] So, the second phase of this process was the design phase. Uh, called this kind of our research sprint. Um, so in this research sprint, we, uh, created a problem frame out of that, uh, AIM statement. Um, and we did a lot of work designing specific research methods to answer that. To be responsive to that aim, and also to center that resident voice. Um, and then we did the research. So the research involved, we conducted 32 interviews with different. Community members. One of them was a focus group with the Older Adult Advisory Committee, which we have one of our… those members here, which is super exciting. Uh, we had lots of conversations with, uh, family members, with kids in Boulder Valley School District. Um, and then a lot of, like, the develop… development community developers, architects, um, and then we also tapped.

[14:01] In commuters to get the voice of, like, well, who is not actually living here because of. These housing challenges. Um, Philip, too. Yes. Um. And then… so from… so we gathered, um, just hundreds and hundreds of points of data, along with this, the… the… in this research sprint, we also, uh, collected all the secondary research that we had at our fingertips already. Um, so we took all these data points as a team, uh, we… we funneled them down to top, like, different themes that we saw throughout, and then using those themes, we. Funneled it even more to. Identify our research insights. So these are our seven research insights that came from… directly from our research spread. Um, that was, uh, kind of designed to be responsive of our aim.

[15:02] So, I will, uh, read those and then kind of provide some context of what, uh, what we… what they mean. So, the first one here is the Road to Boulder's Housing Crisis was paved with good intentions. Um, so whether that be environmental protection, reducing sprawl, or preserving open space. Those all had very good intentions behind them, but, um, have caused. Cause a lot of problems with housing and housing affordability, with… within the city. Uh, the second one here is to meet our housing goals. We must release control. Um, so this control was conceptualized in two ways. The first one was government control, like, as a government, we need to figure out how to release some of that regulatory control. But also as a community, about community members. You know, this gets straight to, like, the NIMBY, the NIMBY sentiments. Uh, the third one, desirable housing types must be the easiest and most profitable option for developers.

[16:07] If we have, as a city, a specific type or specific types of housing that we want to see, we have to. Figure out how to make it profitable. People aren't going to do it. For altruistic reasons. Um, so we really have to kind of make those incentives or those financial assistance obvious. Um, the fourth one here is remaining opportunity sites to develop, maybe our last best hope. Um, so… This sentiment, I think, came a lot from our development community in terms of, like, there's a lot of opportunities in those last big sites. Um, so let's… let's think about that as we… as we move forward here when we're thinking about solutions for middle-income housing. Uh, the fifth one, Boulder is exclusive. We need meaningful leadership to change that trajectory. Um, I think this one kind of speaks for itself.

[17:01] It's not going to change unless someone speaks out to help. Um, to kind of make that change. Um, and then the final two were my favorite. So the… the sixth one here is Boulder's The Housing Should Be As Creative and Interesting as its people. Um, so this kind of gets to the point where maybe there was some sentiment that a lot of the development looks the same, a lot of our community members that, um, kind of bring that eccentricity can't afford to live here, so how do we kind of bring that creativity, um, back to… back to the city? And then finally, when Sudden or big life events happen, folks should be able to make the choice to stay in Boulder. Um, so we heard this sentiment from families, um. Families… growing families, families that keep… households that are having more kids. Um, and we also heard it from, uh, people, like. Who have recently been divorced. You know, like, that's a huge life change, very disruptive. Um, how can we make it more reasonable for them to stay? Because that is a big life change. It's very destructive, um… So those were our research insights, and I'll just… I'll just…

[18:12] So, we shopped this around with a few different groups, and somebody wrote me this little sticky, and one of our ideation sessions, and so I just wanted to share it with you here to say. Um, at least some… some of our community members, um, feels like this… these research insights are perceptive and kind of getting that voice. So, very motivating sticky. I, um… yes, sat under one of these sessions, and… There were so many ideas, so to be able to synthesize this, I think this is something similar. So, you, I remember… so you… you participated in one of our ideation sessions? Yes. Yes. Oh, is that… Different than… That's… that is the next step here. So, um, so after we developed these research insights, we, um.

[19:03] We participated or went into this, like, on our little path here, still in kind of the design phase of. Um, okay, great, you have new insights. Um, the whole idea here is to get new ideas. To test. So let's brainstorm with the different community members, um. Kind of leaning on these insights to create those new ideas. So, in our ideation session, which you were a part of one of these. Um, we had 4 of these sessions with over 50 participants. Um, we went to, uh, we went to the Boulder Housing Fair and… and kind of ideated with residents there. Uh, housing advocates, an advisory group members. Uh, we had one with, uh, really, we opened one of these sessions to all city staff. Um, and then the developer, kind of the development community, again, the developer's architects, and financiers. Yes, please. How will people, uh.

[20:00] Invited or reached out to for. I get the city staff one, but… And maybe the second one, advocates and Advisory Group members, but where you've got, like, developers, architects, how did the architects, how did that community know that there was needed? I… we reached out in a variety of ways, and I was not unchar… I was not in charge of the session developers, architects, and. Do you remember the outreach? Strategy. I mean, if… what you're getting at, it wasn't, like, a broad, open invitation to everybody. Um, it was sort of targeted towards people that, you know, we do work with quite a bit. It's kind of exclusive in that way. It does sound exclusive, if I put it that way. So the challenge… that was a challenge for this whole process, is how do you… If we want to include the people who aren't normally included, you better look outside of the normal ways you interact with people, I guess is the point I'd like to make sure we take away from this.

[21:02] And we tried different, that's why we did the housing fair. So that was a way to get to people that normally wouldn't participate in that city process. Um, city staff, and then, of course. Our boards and commissions. So this was, uh… just a snapshot, or just some pictures, some visuals for what, like, an ideation session actually looks like. You know, we had a presentation, had some kind of, um, prompts on the wall. Stickies everywhere, and then dot votings to, you know, the… somebody referred to it as the dreaded dot votes, uh, to… to get the group to prioritize some of the… ideas on the board. So, throughout that process, we had over 800 ideas to sort through and to prioritize, and the goal here was that we had, uh. Of 8 to 10… initiatives for our final portfolio.

[22:03] Um, so this was a task, and we had to… prioritize and kind of filter the ideas through. The first way we filter the ideas were high impact. Which of these ideas would really have an impact on. That aim, that the North Star, we were going for. Um, and then we looked at a balance of ideas that, um, which ones are feasible, which ones are practical, which ones kind of have more boldness to them, more exciting. Um, so we kind of use these… these different… Um, these different ways to… Create, you know, prioritize all of those ideas. Um, and so we selected 10 ideas, and we were tasked in this process, again, um, in this. Uh, it's in the… our little path up here. Um, we were tasked. After we identified those 10 ideas… those 10 ideas for our portfolio to prototype two of them. So now we're, like, getting into the activate stage. So it's like, great, you have ideas.

[23:07] What to do now with those ideas. Um, so we prototyped two ideas, and I'm in all it. Jay, talk about the first one, not because it's… Super exciting, but because I was not involved in this one, but Jay was. I think it's super exciting. No, it's very… it's a little too exciting, I think. So this is, um, we've got a lot of, uh, community interest in this one. Sort of recognizing, you know, that we can't continue to grow out. We're basically space-constrained. What about… what if we grew up more? Um, and sort of questions around… So, and there are a lot of different ways to think about this, so this actually unpeeled a lot of other issues, like ground floor retail came up as a big concern, and they over-reliant, or the. Not… potentially we shouldn't be requiring ground floor retail everywhere, because.

[24:00] We're not able to support it. Um, but the height issue was it's… it's also related to design. So, a lot of the, uh… what we hear from the community is we're tired of these oxy buildings. And a lot of times, that's because of the hype. Right? So, there was additional height allowed, you might get more interesting and different roof forms. So that's another example. So, and then there are different, uh, gradations, too, like… Potentially, what if we… what if we revisited the Charter Amendment of the 55-foot height limit? Uh, so that would obviously require a vote of everybody in Boulder. Um, but there's also the option of potentially. Just increasing height throughout the city, in different places. So this is an example, and we'll talk a little bit later, of, um, you know, trying to feed what we learned. Into the comprehensive plan process.

[25:07] Uh, so the second idea we prototype is more conceptual, and it was trying to get at the point of this, like. So, there's a lot of existing units, um. Existing single-family units, and there's these demographic trends with older adults. Uh, in the community. We looked at some stats, and I didn't write it down, but it was something like. 50% of the single-family housing units in the city are owned by… households with, uh, folks over 60 years old. Um, so there's these demographic… these demographic pressures, and is there anything that the city can do to kind of. Convert some of those existing units. That we know will kind of change hands in the near future into long-term, attainable or affordable units. So this is a conceptual idea. We were like. We don't know what's going to happen, so we tested this idea, we did, um, 3 different, um, prototyping sessions. One was.

[26:10] Um, two were at the, uh, AgeWall centers, one was at AgeWall West, and we did one at AgeWell East. Or the East Boulder Community Center. And then we also, uh, held a prototyping session with. Uh, like, uh, it was, like, tax accountants and… Um, just different… different people involved with estate planning, I'll say. Um… And so this one in itself, because it's conceptual, I don't think had very, like, very tangible results. Like, onto the idea itself. Um, but once I get into the final ideas portfolio. Uh, that we have. It did influence, kind of, how we were thinking, so we took that, and we… there were some great ideas and great learnings that we have had from it that we. Said, hey, actually, that is an idea that we can actually think… we can explore implementing within the city.

[27:05] Um, so I can't say we, like, figured out how to convert these long… these units to attainable… attainable units, but, um, there were some… some great conversations, and we… we learned some great things from these conversations. Howie, regarding the reverse mortgages. Is that something that a city policy could affect, or is that really only an agreement between a private homeowner and their bank? Yeah, so that was one of the ideas, you know, we had, like. Different idea cards that people, you know, said, hey, what do you think about, like, the idea of the city being involved? It's like a reverse mortgage, but without the predator, right? So we… we didn't go down the… path of exploring, like, whether, um… Like, how to do it. Because there was, um, a pretty negative reaction to that idea at all. Um, when we… when we talk to… when we… we prototyped with older adults, and even with some of the tax accountants, it was like.

[28:05] Well, some of it… there was one… there was one person, um… a banker that was, like, very excited about it, but the other, like, there was such a visceral reaction to, like, that is a terrible idea, the city should never be involved in it. We did not pursue it anymore. Um, so that was kind of one of these things where it's… We just learned from it. Yeah, you got positive reactions to, um. Discussing the sacred issue of height limits. You're more positive than… yeah. Yeah, I mean, we got… I mean, we also got some pushback, but I think… Most people recognize that. You know, a little bit of extra height. It's… might… might not be a bad thing for Boulder. And it supports all of our other goals, right? In terms of transportation, climate. Walkable neighborhoods, 15-minute neighborhoods. For the, um, projects that have been granted height modifications to go up to 55 feet.

[29:03] Were those results looked at, and did people say, yeah, that's… we want more of that? Given that's what happens when we do rent hike. Modifications. I mean, we didn't do a visual preference survey. It was just very initial… This is the conversations, you know? Short equals boxy. Tall equals… what? Bigger boxy? I mean, I'm just curious as to how that conversation was. Supported with the fact that we do have a mechanism for. Granting heightened variances right now, and are… is it leading us to get more of what we actually want? That would be… good information to have at the table. No, we didn't… I mean, that's not… it wasn't that sophisticated a conversation. Um, but I think there was… there was interest in exploring. And I think part of it is, um, there was a… what ran through the entire innovation track was.

[30:00] This idea of, I write versus discretionary review, and a lot of concern that discretionary review is what's causing a lot of our increased. Costs in terms of time. Um, and just holding costs. Was that kind of across the board from all the different groups? Or just was that mostly from the developers and architects and all that? Professional. I would say, yeah, people who are familiar. Okay, so now we can reveal our… I get a portfolio. Um, so I, uh, will, um, at the top, this is how… these are the five ideas that. Um, we at HHS are very comfortable and think that we can kind of push forward. Uh, that align with… you know, work plans are… Kind of the ones that we can own within HHS.

[31:01] And, um, in the… in the packet, there's a list of the other ideas that are in our total portfolio from the whole. Um, the whole process, but some of them are kind of just… not in our… we just can't do them at HHS. So… so this is what, um, us at HHS, we are pushing forward as our final ideas portfolio. So the first one is city-supported Affordable Child Care. Now. Throughout this whole process. Nobody in our team could spend more than 5 minutes with me without me complaining about childcare. So there's some of my bias going into this, for sure. Um, but we heard from, certainly from. Uh, the ideation sessions, especially with city staff, um. That oftentimes, uh, within households. When you have kids, the mortgage isn't the biggest line item.

[32:00] It's city… it's the… childcare. Um, so we lifted this up in our portfolio as obviously not directly relating to affordable housing with the city. Uh, but when we're looking at. Goals of, like, affordable living more broadly, that this should be focused on. Um, so the idea here is, um, somehow. Uh, exploring opportunities and barriers to provide city-supported childcare spaces and programs. Um, so… We don't really know exactly what that looks like. Um, again, you're gonna hear… I will say that for all of these. Um, so the next step here is to just explore different approaches. That the city might… may take to do this. Specifically, we're kind of looking in… I've met with some of my HHS colleagues. That are already in this child care scene. Um, and specifically looking at, like, the supply-demand dynamics that have changed, um, since COVID, and then since, um.

[33:09] The universal pre-K program was implemented. Um, so, like, the scene has changed, and just figuring out where the supply pressures are and where those demand pressures are. Um, so that's our first idea, uh, at HHS. Um, so the second idea here came from… so the city supported affordable assisted living. Um, so when we were, uh, during our ideation sessions, and I think even just, like, the research phase of this, we had a focus group with older adult advisory committee. Um, and it was revealed to us that there are no Medicaid beds available, assisted living medic… assisted. Care, Medicaid beds. Within the city. And, um, I did some more digging, and it sounds… and it turns out that in the whole county, there are only 48 assisted living beds certified for Medicaid, so 48 in all of Boulder County.

[34:06] So this seems like a huge gap. Um, really surprising, I think, for myself, um. And so the idea here is just having… figuring out how to have. Um, just exploring the possibility of developing a city-supported, affordable, assisted. Care living facility, so one that offers, like, the affordable housing component, but also there's a service delivery component as well. Which isn't that different than the permanent supportive housing model? Can you use, like, low-income housing tax credits? If you have a service provider. Yes. Um… So, our next step for this, I think. I think we're really excited about this, to figure out if we can help fill this gap with using our, you know, at the city here. Um, but we just, like, I don't… I don't know. I have no idea how to do this. I don't know if other places have done it.

[35:02] Um, I don't know if there is, uh. Options to provide that sort of, like, what kind of service option would be available within our city? It's a program called the Greenhouse Program, have you heard of that, Jen? Um, there's one… I don't know if it was Longmont, or Loveland Housing Authority, but there's one up in Loveland. Okay, here we go. It's the continuation, or the… it's the scale of affordable LIHTC housing all the way up to assisted living, and so… I… I think it was Loveland Housing Authority, because Sam Better's developed it. But… yeah, they navigated that… that Medicaid assisted living component of it, so that might be just something to look into. Absolutely, yes. And I'll try to think of… about the models. Okay, and you may have just volunteered for yourself, that section. Um, so this is great. So, yes, there, there must be models out there that we can look to towards, um, and I think the question is, like, whether we can do it here, given the resources and…

[36:12] And all the rest. Um… So that's number two. So, the next idea here is home sharing. Um, so we heard from… I mean, I feel like this came up in almost every… Uh, ideation session that we had. And in a lot of the conversations we had at the beginning, like doing interviews with the residents, it's just this idea of home sharing. Um, so looking for ways for people… figuring out how to partner with a nonprofit organization that helps people looking to stay in their homes but are having difficulty with daily tasks or isolation, or whatever reason, whatever other reason why living alone is just not working anymore.

[37:00] Um, kind of figuring out how. To find an organization to, like, support… support linking people up for home sharing. This one feels a little less technical, but it's just… we have to figure out the avenues for the ways for the city to be involved in this, and we know that there's a Sunshine Home Share Colorado. Network, um, that already exists, and so maybe it's just figuring out how to tap. I'll tap into that. Do you think that, um, CU would be interested in… partnering in that at all? Well, you know, we've got other trees, and it's, like, college students, and… yeah. Older folks. Yeah. I mean, it's possible, absolutely, yeah. Um, involving CEO. That's a great thing about… if you did partner with a nonprofit. They could actually provide, you know, that outreach to different organizations to try to promote the program.

[38:00] Because it, right, it's great. Housing option for students. And it's not… that's the thing is not just for students or older adults, I think. Could apply to anybody. Right. Any single word. In a smaller household and a big house? So, the next idea here is expanding the Housing Legacy Program. Um, so… This idea came directly from that prototyping session, the single-family conversion prototyping session. Um, so the Housing Legacy Program, uh. The city facilitates the donation of homes to. The… our Affordable Homeownership Program. Um… And when we were talking to… Estate planners, tax accountants. Um, many of them pointed to this and said, hey, this is a great idea, what are the tax implications of this?

[39:00] And I said, I don't know. That's a great question. Um, and so I think the… you know, when we started thinking about it more. Um… just figuring out ways, maybe identifying partnerships with a nonprofit entity to create just, like, a more obvious. Financial incentives to participate? Like, what are those implications for your taxes, and can a nonprofit pass through, or something like this make it, um. More attractive to participate. Um, so yeah, that came from exactly, and I think this is, like, the… You know, it came from a prototyping session, and this is, like, the essence of this program. It's like, we're not going to have the best. Idea up first, and it's okay to say, okay, that one didn't work. This one… this one is much better, and one that we can actually play a role in. All right, and then the, uh, the fifth and final one that we at the Housing and Human Services have in our portfolio.

[40:02] Um. Now, there's been all sorts of names for this… for this idea, and I've fallen on the name of diverse financing options. Which isn't as attractive as the first name, which was the big, beautiful bank of Boulder. So, I changed it to be a little bit more boring. Um, but this, this idea stems from. Um, the fact that… LIHTC is really… A really great tool for affordable housing, and affordable housing development, but it's, like, one of the only tools. And so, are there other ways the city can create some financing tools. For developments, um, that offer housing at below market rate. Um, some of the stickies I've pulled from… we had, you know, this whole, like, electronic. Board that I pulled. Just to support, kind of, the concept here, is that, um, offer low-cost financing options for affordable development. So, like, as a city, can we figure out how to do that?

[41:07] Um, and then this one was, like, we're the big, beautiful bank of Boulder. It's a city-run real estate brokerage and bank, all commissions and profits roll into subsidizing housing. I.e. The real estate industry would love this. So, um, again, kind of in the vein of, like, we're not actually sure where this will land, but our next step is to talk to. Um, local CDFI, so Community Development Financial Institutions, to figure out if there's just. Maybe there's just ways we should be thinking about partnering with them. That would be, you know, offer more… more and more benefits. So that's… So that's where we are with our five ideas that I think at HHS that we're, like, really thinking about moving forward. Um, the other ideas that I've listed here, uh, there's more details in your packet about… just not, not too many details, just a little bit of details, because some of these are, like, at their infancy here.

[42:07] Um, but reconsider height limitations, um, which Jay talked about. Doing a regulatory analysis on the actual cost of some of these regulations, so not just looking at the regulations and seeing what exists, but. Kind of, like, putting a dollar sign next to each one of them. Um, limiting discretionary development review for residential buildings. Um, flexible design for a more inclusive city. Again, not exactly sure where this… that lands, the kind of figuring out how to create. More… more flexible design. Uh, limiting maximum home size. And, um, then the last one is a land equity fund. Um, so we're at… we at HHS, uh, aren't really going to be pushing these forward, but the rest of the team that we worked with, there's kind of.

[43:04] Next steps that they've identified to kind of push some of these, or at least think about how to iterate on. Um, the first idea into how this would actually be feasible. Okay. So, um, that's all I have. So again, in our little paths to Public Innovation. Um, we're really trying to figure out, um, how to… Um, like, ingrained this in the culture at HHS, this, like, innovative ways to push for… push ideas forward. So we're going to be refining these ideas. Uh, using a similar path, like the similar, like, prototyping, ideation. Um, to try to really… move the needle on some of this, and then… planning on implementing some of them, um, hopefully in the short term. Um, and then… The discussion that we're hoping to have, at least a little bit here, is. Um, where do you all think we should go from here?

[44:01] I like to think it's like, is there anything that you think is just, like, a terrible idea? Or ideas that we could kind of… explore even more from this, so yeah, like, let's just open it up to… What you all think. I'm curious that that second list of some of the other ideas? I wonder if any of those, it would… makes sense to bump up into the top 5, because they seem a little more, um… More easily obtainable. Like, was that… was that a part of the process of… Figuring out, like, the top 5 things that we're going to try and push through. So our… the top 5, so one thing that I think the… regulatory analysis has been identified as something that. Planning and development may pursue, in terms of their work plan. So that's one of… that's one that they… That's on the… that's on them. Like, that is not an analysis that would naturally live within HHS. Okay. Um, and then the height limitation.

[45:11] Um, I think we've… we've been connecting with the comprehensive planning team on how that can be incorporated, like, these discussions can be incorporated. Have some information about that. Yeah. Sure, yeah, we've been, um… doing some community engagement on this topic, and we've asked a question related to height. And the statistically valid survey, which went out on Monday? 1515. Oh, and a companion survey, which was… Published on Monday. Um, so we'll have some statistically valid input on that particular question. Um, next month. If there are specific ideas that you want to advocate for? Yeah. That's helpful to have that. Do you… do you have a, um, a list of the first five?

[46:05] That we could refresh our memories. The… It… no. Um. Childcare… Um, assisted living. Home sharing. The Legacy Program, and then the finance options. Do other city departments have their own. Portfolios? Um… Not yet. We're the first ones. Correct. Yeah. And, uh… What would the… are we done with Bloomberg? Is now this information on ours to digest and… move forward? Yes, as far as I know, what I've done with Bloomberg. No, we are… I think that the program has ended, so it is ours to take forward. What's the… how's this gonna get transferred into the policy, if you could… ballpark about it. Policy proposals, I should say.

[47:07] Well, I think when all they tried to lay out is those five HHS items. We are incorporating those into our work. In some shape or form, and trying to sort of embody the whole spirit of. Innovation, right? So what we learned in that process. So, to me, the… the Bloomberg process was less about generating an idea. But training certain muscles to think different. Right. It's tend to be more innovative in government. We're going to require policy approval. Trying to think through is, what if some of these get traction with city council members, and they identify it as a council priority next February? That would be fantastic.

[48:01] Hey guys, this is Chip. Um, thank you for the very good presentation. I like the idea of thinking outside the box and thinking creatively. Um, I like the idea of thinking about maybe Medicare beds. Um, and how the city can, I guess, encourage that or facilitate that process. Um, and that might address the issue of older people staying in their homes. You know, if they don't… if there's not an affordable place to move on to from a single-family house, they might stay there and… seek home care when perhaps they would prefer to be in a facility, I don't know. Um, I know, as a board, we've somewhat danced around the idea of. Focusing in more on. Our senior population and their needs, so… Um, maybe that's an action item we can add. Um, I will say I really do not like the reverse mortgage idea. Um, I think… It could so mistrust… Um, in the community.

[49:04] He's basically, in order to effectively run a reverse mortgage program, you gotta foreclose on people when they die, or… what have you, and I just… I think that could stir up very negative emotions towards the city. I also just think financial institutions like banks, are just better equipped to do it more efficiently, and. They're good at that, so let them… let them do what they're able to do. Um, but overall, thank you very much for the presentation. Thank you for summarizing exactly what we heard from the focus groups. Um, two comments, um… One is, I… my favorite of these five would be no surprise, is the Sharinghausen one. If you didn't know, in March we had a panel on this subject, and I don't know if you. Familiarize yourself with anything that, um. Unfolded there, but we had some really, uh, great panelists, and I'd be happy to share.

[50:04] You know, if you want to have a conversation offline about. What we learned and what's possible. Love to… love to talk. But, um, I'm kind of in short summary. Um, we do. We have lots of large houses occupied by one or two people. There's a bunch of large houses that are empty. But to target the folks that… live by themselves, who may be, um. Feel a cultural pressure to… to not, you know, have housemates, or, um… have financial pressure to maintain a large yard and all the maintenance that goes with it, tents. And then just the notion that we have all these, um, climate-controlled. Bedrooms that are already available, um. You know, it would be great to… you know, find… you know, we did a ton of work to make this possible through the bedrooms Are for People campaign and the occupancy.

[51:00] Occupancy limit restriction, um, reform, all that stuff, and um… I think that with a little bit of money. You could go a really long ways towards educating and promoting and providing a service that would… you know, like, I feel like. There's a… there's a kind of untapped demand for… for this sort of thing that… with some education and with a little bit of incentive, it could just unleash. And, um… I think the order of magnitude of the number of empty bedrooms is in the tens of thousands, and uh… So it could have a really big impact for… I think… I don't think you need tens of millions of dollars to put up a program. I think… I think you could… Kick something off meaningful for less than a million dollar, would be my guess. But, um, so I want to just put a… put a plug in that I love the sharing housing idea. The home sharing idea. Um. Comment about the first one about childcare.

[52:06] This is not something I know much about, but I'll just kind of share one little bit of insight that might be helpful, and that is, um. When I was in grad school. Um, I had my first child when I was in grad school, and uh… It doesn't matter. But… We lived at Smiley Court at 30th and Colorado. And, um. When my kids were really young, and uh… It's amazing how the cost. Changes from when you're trying to run a single-family home in a suburban-style sprawl environment out in Broomfield, where we were for a while. And you have to… have a nanny, or you have to drive to a daycare, and you do the drop-off, and there's… There's so much expense involved, because it's not a scalable way… it's not a reasonable way for, you know, to make every family, like, have enough income to do all these things by themselves.

[53:09] Um, at 30th and Colorado at Smiley Court, there's a ton of young families there, because there's a. Young people typically going through grad school, or they're often, um, they're often married and having young children. And, um, I just think it's… it's really kind of… like, if you've never lived in a community like that. The potential and the possibilities for shared. Um, for shared labor, you know, in raising kids, just… There's a… I don't know if it's not a multiplier effect, but there's just… there's a… there's a lot of efficiency that comes with having. Lots of families together with lots of adults, and um… sharing those responsibilities. So, um… I just… I think the notion that you would just throw a bunch of money at.

[54:02] Childcare, so that people can keep doing the same financially unsustainable things that they've been doing in terms of the suburban model for a nuclear family. Um, I would just… I'd like to encourage you to kind of, like, couple that with. The structures that families are living in so that, you know, there's. Walkability to a… to a care center, or there's… more possibilities, for sure. Um… Shared resources and shared, uh, care. So, yeah. I… Can I just, um… I was born into Smiley Court. Oh, no kidding. And, uh… Big of you. My parents were in grad school at CU, and we lived there, and um… And I asked my parents, like, how did you… how did you guys afford this? And they had, like, there was 2 or 3 moms.

[55:00] That's my core. That just shared… everybody pitched in a day or two. And it was, like, this very community-centric way of doing childcare. Um, but I just wanted to… That's super good profession. I know exactly the model here. And I live 5 blocks away from it now, so it's a little… I have an additional comment as build upon folks a little bit. Um, I was impressed that… Nothing in a portfolio says, go out and build more housing. It's all… Services. Which I, again, you're thinking outside the box, so it's great. And, uh, my mind is starting to turn about, like, what are the possibilities here? So, like, we have a lot of vacant retail space. Could some of that become childcare centers in multi-family neighborhoods? You know, we don't get a lot of families living in there. Multifamily developments, now a paramedic. I heard there's only a few children in full retention. For example, so I think that's a real opportunity for creativity.

[56:01] I don't know how involved BHP was with this process. I suspect it'll probably vary. But, um, you know, they offer different types of services within their, um. They're housing, and maybe some of these services could be incorporated, like more childcare, like assisted living. I think it's great stuff. The Housing Legacy Program, to my understanding, you can correct me if I'm wrong, is that it's very little use. So, I don't know what potential there is. Maybe they're going one or two homes that are on the docket to be donated. I like to say that we have… Yeah. Could be that it maybe has less potential than some of the other ideas. Yeah. So, um, I think it's… I think it's some good stuff here. I was gonna say some very similar things to what Michael was saying. I think BHP would be an amazing partner for the childcare.

[57:01] Um, and a lot of their properties, they already have the Burning School Home program. Um, as… someone with a young child, um… I get how expensive it is, and the universal preschool program. Was a savior for me, so 3 and older, um… But so I think targeting this for less than 3 years old is really good, so… Um, I love that, and I think it's fascinating that, uh. That 50% of the homes in Boulder are… owned by older adults, and so I don't know what to do about that, but… Single families, too. I think that that's just… So fascinating, and I think there is great opportunity there. I was younger when I bought my home. I think that's in large part because if you bought it 30 years ago, it was more affordable. Sure, absolutely. Yeah, yeah.

[58:02] So, thank you, I love what you've done. Yes. So, I would echo that. I think this is great, very interesting. Um, I know that the city has, um, affordability goals that we are moving towards. Um, to me, and so I feel confident that we will… reach the, what is it, 15% goal? I think what I'm more worried about is the missing middle, and how do we bring more families into Boulder? And I'm sort of surprised it doesn't seem like there's… as much of this that focuses on getting families here. Hmm. You don't think that's this first one does? Yes, that… but that's one of five. Oh, I don't really feel like… And I don't know what the solution is, um, but… Well, they didn't want to include the problem statement.

[59:00] But our problem statement actually was more focused on that sort of missing middle, so… What we tried to do… I tried to steer the conversation. In a certain direction, so keep in mind that the whole purpose of this is you have an interdisciplinary team. So we had folks from utilities, from community vitality, CMO, IT, know nothing about housing. Um, and then there were just a couple of us that actually had some housing expertise. So we were the villains of innovation, because we were like, oh yeah, we've tried that before, didn't work. Um, things like that. Uh, and to me, that AIM statement is so broad. It's like. It's like solving world peace. So, I was trying to get us more focus. And I was trying to get people to think… focus on home ownership, and I got a lot of pushback on that. Do any of the other cities focus on the missing middle? Like, could you make it attractive enough that you don't necessarily need to.

[60:02] Own a house, but you can… attract families to move into a… A rental single-family home, or a rental apartment with more amenities, or… Yeah, I just feel like that is something I really would like. To see more focus on, otherwise I really worry that, like, the great schools that we have are gonna… not be utilized, yeah. I think when we're going throughout the process, like, the ideation sessions and. Um, some of our research questions that we formed were about this missing middle, and some of them were even, like. Um, to get that… to that point about, like. Like, the American dream. Like, why… like, kind of, what can we disrupt or change about the American dream work? Rental is a totally fine option in the city. Um, and some ideas, like this land equity fund came out of.

[61:00] That concept of being like, well, people want to invest, but… investing in homes, this is the only way to make money. Um, and then things like this diverse financing options. Kind of gets to the missing middle of, like, let's figure out ways to actually make it more financially feasible to create the types of housing we want to see. I think it's interesting that you've kind of turned it on its head, and you're looking at. Other reasons why it's expensive to live in Boulder, and so if you can reduce. Cost of childcare. If you can reduce your commuting costs. Then are you willing to spend more money, a little bit more money, on housing? Because it's not… That much more expensive in Boulder than it is in… brochure, right? Um, but if you're able to save another aspect of your life. It's worth it to me to live a pepper. Has anyone commented on this slide yet?

[62:02] I really… I really like it. It seems like… I used to work in the National Trust for Historic Preservation, and they had a revolving fund. Gave money to groups restoring facades, and they increased the value of their buildings, and they paid you back, and then you. They may be out again, and, you know, it's kind of a net zero financial model for the. For the lender. But I wonder if that could even be extended to offer. Much lower interest mortgages for homebuyers. I don't see the current. Um, you know, subsidy for down payments being. Super useful, because, you know, housing is so expensive, but the difference between getting a 3% mortgage and a 6% mortgage, it's a huge impact on your back buying power, so… I think the idea, blow it up, make it bigger. Yeah. Um, one of the ideas that I've had in my mind about this is there's different countries that. That do this, like… LIHTC doesn't exist in other countries. It is very specific here in other countries have affordable housing.

[63:05] Um, so there's tools that, like, Austria uses in terms of, like, creating low-cost financing as a stable source for affordable developments throughout the country. But yeah, like, this idea is there's… there's different… there's different ideas out there. Um, so I'm really intrigued with the idea that this was all about innovation. Uh, and I think, um, Phil mentioned. Something that, to me, maybe is a piece. That can be looked at. Um, through these five lenses. And that is, I need to change people's behavior? Because, you know, right now, you mentioned it, the American Dream, you get your little turf, you build your, you know, it's like, uh, that ship sailed. And how do we begin to change. Um, the model, so that.

[64:02] The collective. You know, a lot of these are about. Let's share, whether it's our home, whether it's our money, whether it's giveaway, our house, whatever. Uh, that's changing behavior at a fundamental. Level, because it's gonna maybe trickle back to how we live. And how we used to land in Japan. So I… I… if I were you all, I would put a lens on this that would say. What behavior changes? Need to be encouraged. To get success out of each of these five things. Look at them with that idea. Because to me, that's where innovation happens, is people change. People change and stuff changes. Gotta change to people first, so… Excellent, you know, process and work, how exciting to have gotten to do it. I'm… again, I'm intrigued with the fact that you're tasked with this. Resulting in something innovative. And, uh, again, that happens when we change. Yeah. If I… if I can just…

[65:04] Um, on that idea of behavior change. So. When we prototype… this idea of this conversion of existing units. Um, we went to the… AgeWell West and the East Boulder Community Center to get feedback from older adults, because this is kind of like… In that category of, like, what could change the behavior to make sure these homes can be affordable. Um, and I have to say, it wasn't… they were… they were very uncomfortable conversations. But the idea is that the city should be involved in. Helping change that behavior, or helping change the outcome and the decision-making for these older adults. And, um… it was one of these things we learned from this, was like, wow, we need to figure out how to, like, reframe some of the work that we're doing as a, like, not… we're… we're not doing this, we're not doing… the behavior changers, or…

[66:03] Um, but I think that's a very powerful lens to see things through, but. Um, as a city, we're kind of playing a role that some people. Don't want… you know, like, there's a… there's a line there that some people don't want the city to cross. I think, um, you're talking about an issue that. Clearly happens a lot in my profession in architecture. You know. People are used to… seeing things and being exposed to the things that they're used to being exposed to. And if you want to put something new on the table, you show them something radically different. And, you know, most of the time in design, whether it's city planning or building planning. You show them… I mean, the world has got incredible examples of just about anything going on. You show them that, people go, oh, I didn't know that that's what a green roof looked like, or oh, I wasn't sure. You know, what this is, and all of a sudden. That, um… that hesitancy to change or to consider something different.

[67:07] Show them a really wonderful example of it. And then people aren't afraid, because we're afraid of what we don't know. And if all we know is a whale, then the government comes in, and then I'm screwed. You know, change that model and show them something beautiful. You know, like you were saying, we went to Austria and saw this example of that. It exists, and I think… Uh, you're feeling that tends to limit us. Is we're referencing in our mind what is… what is home sharing? Do I really want a university student in my house? Show them good examples, and often they exist, but that's, I think, part of behavior changing, is. People need to start. Seeing something in a different way. And, um, you have, you know, all the capacity to start putting that forward, because you know how to research, and yet. It kind of stuff for us, too, here. I love the idea of change. I was… I wasn't at your West Center meeting. I would have been the one saying, wait a minute, show me what this looks like. Who are these people?

[68:14] I'm curious about the demographic of the. People, uh… I think it's great how you had… you kind of had different. Cross-sections of people involvement, but I'd be curious about your demographics, because I… think about, um… For many younger folks, home ownership. Is not a huge priority, or it's not as much of a priority as it is for somebody. In our 40s or 50s, like, there's a generational events, right? And so it's just curious to happen to know? Did you… Agent Naut, are you able to track any? Correct. We did not track the demographics. Um, it was too… this… the process was, like, way too fast to… to track all of that.

[69:03] Um, we did talk to… I wouldn't say any, like… Younger, like, college students. I think the younger demographic we talked to were, like, parents. Bvsd. Um, like, that's the demographic, but that doesn't… that demographic is, like, squarely in this generation of, like, stability. Possibly taking ownership. But not all of them work. We actually… the group I was involved in interviewing, we talked to a lot of, um. Bdsd-connected families, and they were immigrants. And they were… because of their, um, like, recent moving to the city, immigration of, like, various reasons. We're not interested in ownership. Um, so they were very interested in just… The rental, and the BHP options. Yeah.

[70:05] I can offer my perspective as a 34-year-old who has other friends who are, you know, professionals. Live in Boulder in the 30s. I think a lot of people, um, you know, my age do want to buy a home. Um, the housing units that are, like, in our price range tend to be older, very old condos. Um, and I think there's a feeling that they carry with them a lot of risk, you know, if I need to resell this, will someone buy it? What are the HOACs, how much is the HOA invested in this old building? Are there going to be big assessments coming up? So I think there's an aversion to, kind of, the older condos that are in our price range. And also, I think part of it, too, the sense I get from a lot of people, is we've been living in apartments for 15 years, you know, since we went off to college, and… we… if we're gonna spend our hard-earned money to invest and buy something, we want.

[71:02] A yard, even if it's a small one. Um, so, you know, I… basically, we're all priced out of the single-family homes in Boulder. Um, we don't qualify for BHP because we make too much money. And, um, the… I'd say, like, the housing stock that is somewhat affordable, the old condos are just not appealing to a lot of. I guess, my friends, that's just my perspective. I've heard that a lot. But didn't you get at that? One of the earlier slides where you talked about creative design solutions. Yeah. Like, you could have a… We're diagnosing, for example. Yeah, and one of the… I know we had this conversation within this process, and one of the insights is, um. Let me just refer back to it so I don't mess it up.

[72:02] Desirable housing types must be the easiest and most profitable options for developers, so. If, you know, if this… this is, like. A sentiment that we should be listening to is, like, even though we want yards, we want that space. Um, then we have to figure out how to make it more desirable. I mean, not more desirable, if that's a desirable housing, we have to figure out how to make it more of a reasonable option to develop. And written, uh… And I do think there is desire for the townhomes, you know, in addition to getting a little yard out in the front of the back. Absolutely. Um, you also don't necessarily have a big HOA presence. You might have, like, a shared wall agreement. Um, you know, there's not common hallways that need to be maintained. There may still be an HOA, but… I guess the more, like, communal. Burden when we're talking about, like, the real property aspect of how much you have to pay to an HOA and deal with all of that is going to be less with a townhome than it might be with a, you know, a standard type of.

[73:06] Condo complex with indoor hallways and the like. And just to… reiterate the whole point. And so, the cheapest, or the most profitable thing for a developer to do right now. Single family. They're gonna get the biggest return on their investment. Or… multifamily. So, all the stuff in between, basically, is a huge disincentive. For any builder in Boulder to build. New townhomes that are being built in Boulder are not even… remotely affordable. That's the only challenge. Right now, they're not all… that's what I keep saying. I mean, even a 25-year-old. Townhome in Boulder is not affordable, so… I have a different question, um… So, you mentioned that Boulder was… like, the eighth city from all over the world, or whatever. What else?

[74:03] Is the… are the other cities… observations or insights shared with. Older? Like, are the sick… do the sh… Do the cities share information, and can we learn from what other cities have discovered? We can. There was, like, a share out at the very end of the program, um. When I wasn't there, so I don't know if you want to say anything. Keep in mind… We're the only ones that did housing affordability. So it's a full range of topics that any local city or any city might… challenge might have. So, a bunch of stuff on homelessness. When did, um, how do we get snow off power lines so they don't cause power failures? Absolutely. So things are, like. Super specific. Yes. Whereas ours was, like, this… huge. Oh, okay. I guess I didn't realize. This is the point, like, I think as a city team, we took on so much more than the other teams took on, because some of them were, like.

[75:07] How do we create, you know, like. Not to put a dig, it was like, how do we create this… Space in our town, how do we make this specific space more activated? And then we're like. I'm sweating over here trying to figure out the middle of the thing. Um… And it wasn't just 8 other cities, so there were 8 cold. Cohorts over… I mean, each cohort has, like, 20 different cities? Yes. So we're doing dozens. Okay. So this is something that they replicate every year. And they actually do, I think they're doing… they're doing multiple a year now? Two a year or something? Yeah, exactly. It seems like with that many iterations of it. Surely there's gotta be another city that did something with housing. Um, there was, uh… Boise, Idaho did it a few years ago, and they looked mainly at.

[76:01] If I did this incorrectly. It was either… Um, like, tiny homes or ADUs. So it was, like, a very, um, it's ADUs lesson. Yeah, actually. So they had a kind of very narrow salad of what they were trying to look at, again, like… Do you know what the success rate is of people actually accomplishing their end goals? Um, no, and I think one of the, um, I think… Jay mentioned this, but one of the goals here is to. Kind of ingrained some of these innovation processes into the whole… all of our work within the city. And so. Um, for some places, and for even some of the team members that we had on our team, it's not about, like, these specific goals we're trying to achieve, it was just, like. Okay, now, now take these… processes and lessons and use them in your work. I think for, um, you know, there's three of us from HHS on the team.

[77:02] Um, and it was housing-specific, and some of these ideas that came up, we were like, well, these are good ideas. Oh, now we have some… some great ways to do work. We're like, we want to figure out how to do these ideas. Um, so that's kind of how, as HHS, we're… We don't have any resources. Yeah. We'll try to figure it out. Well, I mean, you came out with 5… Pretty specific. Directives, as it were. But we don't get to direct our work plan. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, no, I get that. I'm just saying. The measure of success in that you came our way with tangible. Takeaways. Yeah. Yeah. Is this going to Council? Not that I know of. Okay, but I don't think that it's all been… like, totally finalized with… So… I will tell you, I put that entire information.

[78:04] Innovation and technology, IT? It. They changed everything. Anyway, they, um, they're trying to figure out, is there a shorter? Something that's not as… involve as much staff time. That they can apply. Some other processes across the street, or across the city, or other issues. So… Because I think a lot of the people, to be perfectly honest, um. After dedicating all that time to it? We're just like, okay, I'm done. Because they have other jobs they had to get done. That was a lot of work, too. Like, a lot, a lot of work, so… Yeah. Should we move along? Yeah, thank you very much. That was great. Okay, so the next item on the agenda is the Boulder Valley Comp Plan update.

[79:04] That's gonna be myself, and Chess Shorn. Um, my name is Captain King, I'm the Principal City Planner and Planning Development Services. Um, and my work group does comprehensive planning. Once every 10 years, we do a major update to the Boulder Valley. So this is a… Joint effort between the city and the county. And, um, I'm gonna talk a little bit about the plan overall, and the process, and where we're at today. And then Tess is going to share… Um, our approach to some of our policy and land use updates that are… Tackling. Okay, so the, um… purpose of why we're here tonight. We, um, are sharing out this kind of overview and update on the process, um, but why we're really here is we want to hear your feedback about where we're going.

[80:06] In some of these, um… The direction that we're taking some of these policies. Um, and we will be sharing some information about our approach to the land use map and our land use designations, and would love to get your feedback on that. Um, just… So, the role of HAP is advisory in this process. There are, um, four bodies that actually adopt the Boulder Valley Comprehensive Plan. So that's Planning Board. City Council, County Planning Commission, and then the Board. Commissioners. Um, so it's a pretty arduous adoption process. Um, but what's really helpful is to have all of the city boards, um, participating, and then, you know, when we get to the end of the plan, weighing in on the draft. Um, and then, um… writing to planning board and city council about, you know, support or recommendations for.

[81:08] Revisions. Number 4 was just the three commissioners. What's that? Yep, the three commissioner, I'm sorry, yeah, they are an adopting body. Okay, so like I said, um, we're going to be looking for your feedback on these two questions. 2… plan… Okay, so, um, are people familiar… pretty familiar with the Comprehensive Plan? Okay, so-so. Um, so the comprehensive plan is meant to be an aspirational plan that describes our vision for the future. So, it kind of outlines where we want to go, what we want to work on, what we're trying to achieve. Over the next 15 to 20 years. Um, it also offers some overarching policies.

[82:04] Some that are shared between the city and the county, and some that are city-specific. Um, and that guides a lot of the work that we do around the city. The way we describe, kind of, the tiers of. Planning and regulation is that the comprehensive plan is up really high, we're at this 30,000 foot level. Um, we have other planning tools, like subcommunity and area plans that are. Um, closer to the ground and a little bit more specific about managing change in certain areas of the city. And then we regulate how that change happens through, um, zoning code. Okay, so… Um, but like I said, the comprehensive plan is one of our overarching documents, and then it gets implemented through. A couple of different ways. One is the citywide strategic plan, which is. Um, that document that, um. Council puts together saying these are the things that we're going to be working on.

[83:04] Um, over the next 2 to 3 years. And then it also influences our budget. Um, department plans, um, things like. The HHS work plan, um, and then sub-community and area plans. And then all of those eventually trickled down to things like the Capital Improvement Program. Um, development standards, zoning, design guidelines, things like that. Okay, so it's been actually, um, almost a full year since we kicked off this process. We. Launched the project in October of last year, and then, um. Went on, uh, kind of excursion of understanding existing conditions. So. Learning about the context of what we're planning for, what our challenges are, what the opportunities are within the community. What's our, um, community's makeup, and what are the trends in how our population is changing?

[84:06] Um, how is the university changing? How does that influence us? So. Thinking about a lot of different trends, and so that was the first phase of work. Um, if you haven't gotten a chance to check out a BoulderFuture.org yet. Um, that website is kind of our hub for all things comp plan, and there's a pretty. Um, robust… page on existing conditions with different. Um, topic areas that you can explore and learn some of that data we've been putting together. So people that do it pretty much repeating that. Boulderfuture.org. It will also be on our last slide, so… Oh, good. Thank you. Um, so we did a lot of that work up front, and then went into the second phase of the project, which is called a Boulder Tomorrow, where. Um, we started taking all of that contextual information, taking a lot of the input that we've been gathering through community engagement, and began to set that vision. So, defining a vision statement.

[85:08] And then also, we defined some areas of focus, which were, um, topics or issues that the community most wanted to address in this update process. And now we're in the, like. Exciting, meaty, hardest part of the process, which, um, is called a Boulder Direction. Where we're actually, um… putting together ideas from community members. Um, grabbing ideas, like, things coming out of the innovation team. Um, working across different departments, working with the county. Um, to find solutions to those challenges that people have been describing as. These are things that need to be addressed in this update. So, um, we're working on. Updating some of the policies that we already have. We're working on identifying new policies that should be included in the comprehensive plan.

[86:04] Um, we are rethinking our approach to land use. Planning and land use management overall, and Tess is going to talk about that. Um, so this is kind of the… the time where your input is really most influential, because we're. Getting messy, or in… in the weeds on all of these different pieces. Um, this phase really kind of, um. Will be coming to a close, sort of, end of the year. January, um, we go to City Council and Planning Board will have a joint study session in December. Or we will be presenting some of the major recommendations. And then the final phase of the project is really. Writing the actual plan and going through that adoption phase, and that will happen next year. Spring and summer. Okay, well, um…

[87:04] One of the team's goals, and I think goals that were supported by. Um, city manager's office, certainly, but also Planning Board and City Council, was that we wanted this update process to be. The most inclusive, um, comprehensive planning process that the city's done to date. And so that's been kind of our guiding light in our approach to community engagement. We've tried a bunch of new and different tactics to get people who. Um, have not historically participated in planning projects involved, and. Tried to create some new venues and opportunities to hear input from. More in different people than who we typically hear from. Um, so we've… done a bunch of stuff. Um… You may have heard about, uh, the community assembly, or read about the Community Assembly, so that's an example of.

[88:01] One of those new tactics that we're taking. Um, but we've had great participation so far. Over the last year. Um, and we're really… working now on using that community input to guide the recommendations as we go into December. So, you know, one of the things that was, um. Very influenced by that community engagement, um, was the vision, and vision statement. So this is… Um, typically at the very front of the plan, and says, you know, this is our vision for the next 20 years. And so. The vision is that our community works together to ensure everyone belongs, to create opportunities for all, and to sustain the health of the Boulder Valley for future generations. And then the goals of, um, the comprehensive plan are aligned with our sustainability, equity, and resilience goals, and the SER framework.

[89:03] And then, like I mentioned, um. That engagement process has also been really influential on the areas of focus that we're taking on in this plan update. So, um, we've heard a lot. Um, you know, surprise to this group about housing choice and opportunity. That's definitely a main focus of this update, and how do we address that? Um, and then you can see the… other topic areas here that people, um. Are really passionate about. Collaborating on and finding… New and interesting solutions for. And that's it for me, so I'm gonna turn it over to Tessa, share some of the fun stuff. Hi everyone, I'm Tess. For those I haven't met already. Um, so yeah, this is really exciting. This is, like, the 10-year major update to the plan. Um, and first I want to talk about the policy updates.

[90:01] Uh, we have some goals related to how we're updating policy and land use. Um, I want to remind everyone that our policy and land use options are still very much a work in progress and draft, so all feedback is welcome, and if nothing's finalized yet. Um, the project will continue to evolve over the next few months as we continue to get that feedback. Um, and the current comprehensive plan contains 210 policies. That address a wide range of topics in community services. Community feedback, including input from the city, county staff. Describes that current policies are. Pretty duplicative at times, and can contradict each other. And be repetitive of policies captured in other community plans. Um, in response to this input. Staff has established some of the following goals for the revision of the plan policies. First, to keep policies clear, simple, and resilient, meaning that they have the appropriate level of detail to help guide decisions without limiting options.

[91:06] As future conditions change. The policies will address the what and why without getting into the how. Um, and that allows departments to have more control over implementation steps. So, some key policy areas specific to housing that we want to talk about today. Um, are that… Uh, we are looking towards increasing housing supply and increasing housing variety, and kind of calling that out more explicitly in this, uh, plan. Um, having an efficient use of land, um, and that's especially captured within, um, our draft land use approach. Um, that I'll be talking about later in the presentation. Um, and then also creating an accessible city through kind of a 15-minute neighborhood approach. Um, and we will be getting more specific feedback from that community assembly that Kathleen mentioned.

[92:02] Um, this later this winter. So… Stay tuned. We also have a draft policy. That has kind of carried over from the former plan about transitioning people experiencing homelessness into housing. And also, another one carried over is preserving that manufactured housing stock that we have in the city. Now, moving on to the future land use map. Um, we just first want to review what the map does. It is meant to describe a desired future for the community. It guides future rezoning decisions. It also guides initial zoning for any land annexed into the city. And it is used as a reference for any development projects that go through the site review process. These projects must be consistent. With the land use map and with the policies in the comprehensive plan. Um, city and stat… city staff and policymakers have identified administrative challenges and confusion around our current land use map.

[93:05] Um, and community engagement thus far has described a need. For change, um, that can be addressed through this land use map as well. So, we've set some goals, um, as we're working through revisions, and first, it's to reset expectations that the map describes the future. Of Boulder Valley. Also, to plan for places and right-size the map, we are scaling back. What was a… quite a parcel-by-parcel approach that had a lot of categories, um, and a lot of, uh, contradiction. Um, and applying land use at a more neighborhood scale, um, and designing and planning for places. Um, secondly, we are working towards unique definitions that attempt to remove a lot of that ambiguity… And you… oh my gosh, I can't say the word. Um… Between the current designation, so the confusion between some of the definitions in, um, the current.

[94:06] Designations, and also that allow for different mixes of land uses instead of separating areas. Um, and properties into very limited, specific uses. Uh, finally, these designations would also offer a more adaptable environment for zoning choices if conditions change. And give a wider variety of redevelopment options for property owners. So why change our approach? Uh, first, uh, there is the changing climate, which calls for a land use plan that can adapt, um, and offer a path to resilience. The second thing is we are really building into the land use strategy is the recognition that. The population is changing. We've talked about that a lot today. Um, community members over the age of 60 will continue to outnumber people. Under the age of 18 over the next 20 years from our projections.

[95:03] Additionally, we know that land use and policy choices of the past have impacted who could live and thrive in Boulder, so working to make land choices… land use choices that offer a more equitable future is an important component to this approach. Finally, local industries and traditional workplace have changed dramatically. In the last 5 years, a lot due to COVID, and our current land use. Uh, structure doesn't support that kind of live-work. Lifestyle that we see as common across the community these days. Um, so a lot of change has already happened, and we've felt that the challenges to respond to that change. Um, and working within the confines of our current land use structure has been really challenging to respond to that. And we are looking, um… at the concept to help us meet the future with resilience. So this is the proposed new draft structure we're talking about with the land use designations.

[96:06] And it has 4 classes. The neighborhood class, the hubs class, networks, and institutions. Um, and today, I'm going to go into more detail about neighborhoods and hubs, because that has more, um. Specifically to do with housing. So, firstly, neighborhoods. Uh, these are primarily residential area, and for each neighborhood category, which is Neighborhood 1, 2, and 3. We are opening up the possibility of more housing types. They are applied differently based on the context, but will likely remain agnostic of exact densities allowed in the descriptions. Um, and the land use map, just to state, has… currently has 5 residential categories, and by creating these three new categories. We are allowing greater flexibility in future rezoning decisions. Uh, secondly, we have the class of hubs.

[97:01] And hubs, um, encourage a variety of commercial and residential uses. And are meant to be gathering spaces that meet the needs of community members and visitors. Um, there are 4 different hub types. Uh, the first 3 are local, community, and regional. And these large… those differences, largely speak to the scale of, um, the hub. Uh, but I want to just note that it opens up residential opportunities in areas. That are formerly, like, very commercial, such as, like, a table mesa shopping center, potentially, or other kind of primarily commercial areas. And it also opens up opportunities for small-scale neighborhood-serving businesses. To exist in what is, uh, primarily residential areas at this time. Um, and then finally, the fourth category is this innovation and production hub. And that, um, really is focused on, um, adding some residential options to specific industrial areas that.

[98:07] We're largely identified in the East Boulder area planning process as well. Um, and all of this also works towards that policy I talked about earlier of efficient land use and the 15-minute neighborhoods. Um, and then finally, um… we have our networks class, which consists of parks and greenways, open space, and rural lands. And then also our institutions class, which include our civic, university, and industrial lands. Um, and just as a reminder, within each of these class, uh. Classes, um, there's a unique designation that can be applied at a neighborhood scale. And that helps guide redevelopment within the city moving forward. This is still a draft. We are working through some edits, um, we did include a link to the City Council memo in your packet, and that has a lot more detailed information about all of.

[99:04] This concept. And also, if you have questions, reach out. Um, but just to give you a little more context, this is just a concept example of how, you know, something like this might work. Um, and play out across the neighborhood. So, a community hub. Uh, serves multiple neighborhoods by being a central designation. Um, there may be more… multifamily development that surrounds this hub, creating walkable options for work, shopping, or socializing. And then some other lower density neighborhoods surrounding this. Um, with a network of parks and open space within close distances. So that's… it's just… A little teaser taster of what this could look like. Can you kind of explain how you're differentiating Neighborhood 1, 2, and 3? Because I gather that it is density-related. But can you just talk through that a little bit? Yeah, for sure. So… Neighborhood 1 is largely going to want to retain the…

[100:06] The feel of our, kind of. Single-family neighborhoods, while also allowing maybe some more variety of housing options. Obviously, with the state, the ADUs are allowed everywhere, but also exploring options of. Some multi-units, some small duplex, triplex. Building forum basically does fit with this form and scale of. What we think of a classic Boulder neighborhood. But more flexible than… say, low density lessons. Yes. Yeah, yeah, so we just wouldn't put, like, a density cap on it. Got it. At the moment, all of our definitions have specific. Density. Okay. Um, and we want to remove that so there's just more flexibility. And then neighborhood 2, yes, would be. Generally denser, allowing for those, like, bigger multi… unit apartments. Um… and kind of more of, like, maybe half a block face, rather than single lot development. Thank you. And then I… I would just add, you know, as Tess said, our.

[101:12] Current designations have a specific dwelling unit per acre measure measurement. Um, the direction that we're going. Is to describe more of that form, um, scale. And, um, other, maybe, qualities or characteristics of a neighborhood. Um, and so… Just to reiterate, less of a focus on. How many units are we allowed to have within this block? Okay, thank you. Good question. So the concept, to me, looks like a… A map of a greenfield development. Boulder is… You know, more… gonna be more overlay, infill operations. Two concepts, maybe have another concept I haven't gotten to yet. Pretty sure that's table mason, probably. We took all the names out there.

[102:08] Uh, yes, so this is, uh, Caleb Mesa and Broadway, that is the map, and that is, um, Federal Land up there under the city. Good morning. Um… But, uh, you know, I think… Part of the… thing that we will have to… work with the community on is a lot about. The messaging and understanding of how change happens incrementally over time. So, um… Although the map… may… you know, I think if, um… You saw this map, and you feared change, it would feel like a wholesale change to what the previous version of this area in the plan map looks like. But the reality of how that change would happen is… As you're saying, it would be infill, um, and happen.

[103:06] You know, sort of… incrementally. Piece by piece. Um, but I think that this structure. Allows for areas to evolve. In a way that meets a lot of our city goals. Um, and we… our current land use map and the current structure of those designations. Um, is much more restrictive in what that evolution could look like. And I didn't mention it, but currently we have 26 different land uses. And, like, a lot of our new projects and planning processes and, um. Community, uh, sub-community plans and stuff like that. We're ending up having to do this kind of parcel by parcel of all these different, like. Community commercial. Mixed residential, like, there's just so many that it looks so much like the zoning map.

[104:09] But they're… they're supposed to be different, and they're supposed to be at different levels. So we're really trying to pull. Back the, um… the scale at which we're looking at. Future land use into more of these big. General descriptors, and then we can get super specific in that zoning code. So this is such a large… change from where you're currently at with the current comp plan. Do you anticipate many conflicts with the city's current zoning code and zoning. Designations, or do you feel like the majority of the city is just gonna fall into these new categories? Um, so right now, as Tess said, we have those 26. Designations. And it's not… explicit which zoning categories are matched exactly with those designations. So that's another piece of this project that we're working on.

[105:07] Is being able to identify. Which zones are most appropriate for each of these designations, and making that. Explicit to the community and property owners and everyone, because, um, right now it's not. Yeah. Number 3, neighborhood types. Is that right? It just happens not to be on this one. Yeah, so Neighborhood 3 is, um, largely in county land in the Boulder Valley surrounding, that's. Are, like… low. I see. Rural, residential. I think it was… I assumed it was, like, whatever downtown is. Oh, yes, that downtown would be considered our regional hub. Because it has a regional draw. Um, and is that mixed use that is ideally, kind of…

[106:02] A hub. Um… All right, and just a few more slides. So, I think, uh, talked a bit about what's upcoming, but just to plug… We do have our statistically valid survey out, so if you're a resident, look for an envelope. Um, you've probably already received it if you have, but there's also an online companion questionnaire. With all the same questions available to anyone to take. We also are trying to, um… get people who, um, are community members of Boulder who may not live in Boulder that also want to participate, um, in that, and that's a way to do that, because our statistically valid survey is only sent to residents. Um, and then… Um, December 11th is when we're going to be taking our recommendations to… on major policy and land use changes to Planning Board and Council. Um, and then in 2026. Uh, we're gonna do our community change request process. Um, we are gonna…

[107:07] Release a public draft of the plan, um, and have a second round of engagement with you all. Um, and then the final draft will be released, hopefully in May, and then the adoption process will happen over the summer. Could you explain what you mean by community change? Yeah. Um, so the comprehensive plan. Mandates that absolutely. Anyone, anywhere, can request any kind of change to the comprehensive plan land use map. The area 123 map. Or any policy or text in the plan. And so, those applications are available online. Um, I think that. Application window is open till, like, October 7th? I'm kind of seen, yeah.

[108:02] But yes, so anyone, anywhere can… request a change to anything in the plan. How do those get reviewed? Um, the, uh… review process is also pretty prescriptive and described in the comprehensive plan. Um, so there are two rounds of review. There's, uh. First, an initial review, um, by city staff of absolutely every application. And the applications that are found consistent with, um, comprehensive plan policy. Then move to the second round. And, um… Then during that second round, there's, I think, some more specific criteria. About, um, whether that application, um. Is recommended, uh, to be incorporated into the comprehensive plan.

[109:00] And then that, um, January, there's a public hearing. Um, on all of those change requests. And then, the slide I promised. It has our link on it, um, so please visit a Boulderfuture.org. For kind of all the project information thus far, and any updates, and… Anything you want to know? Hopefully. So, I have a question. What is an Area 3 that's, like, by… Jay and, like, in very North Boulder. Is this the opportunity where you say, hey. Let's consider annexing it for future development, and then what that. Hub zone… residential would be? Um, not quite. So the Area 3, it's called the Area 3 Planning Reserve. Um, so… The comprehensive plan has a MACLBA area 1, 2, 3 map.

[110:00] Area 1 is everything within, um, city limits and land that, um. Uh, the city services with. Water utilities, all of those things. Area 2 is outside city limits, but eligible for annexation, and the state. City may serve those areas with city services. And then Area 3 is unincorporated Boulder County, um, that the city will not consider for annexation. Um, and there's, um, some other comprehensive plan policies that describe that the. County will not allow for over-intensive development in those areas. And then there's a particular section of that map that has the Area 3 planning reserve, and that's where the city reserves the right to. Consider expansion of. City limits and potentially serve that area. So, um… Maybe this time last year, we did an Urban Services study, um, so there was a consultant that was brought on.

[111:06] Who said, you know, if you wanted to develop this area. It would cost this many billions of dollars to put in pipe and roads and all of the things that you need to expand. City limits. So that was the first part of the Area 3. Um, effort. Area 3 expansion. Um… The second part, and this is what we're working on now, is a community needs assessment. So, um, we have to identify community needs. And make a determination as to whether those needs can be met within city limits or not. And then we present that information to City Council, and they will say. Um, okay, we can't meet our, um, needs within our current boundary. Let's move on and do an expansion plan. Um, or, okay, we can meet our needs within city limits.

[112:06] We don't want to exercise our right to do an expansion plan now. So, as part of the comprehensive planning process, we would not be prescribing, um, a land use designation for a neighborhood or for. Hub typed there, um, that would be… a future effort should Council direct us to do an expansion plan? But, like, the needs assessment might be missing middle. That, in theory, might get solved by the redevelopment of that plan. So then what's the timing of the. Community needs assessment. It doesn't coincide. Is the Boulder Valley comp plan timing? It does coincide, and I think there's also a public hearing. Um, on that community needs assessment, also in January. Okay. I think it's in January, but I can, um… check on the timing of that and send the information back to Jay.

[113:01] January 15th. Perfect, thank you. Good words, uh, please clarify, uh. The comp plan update is likely to leave. My reserve as kind of a blank face. Bank space. Bank Reserve, yes. Wait, so it wouldn't move it to Area 2? If Council determined that it was… Um, that's a good question. I have to… I would have to check on that process, because it's… There's so many steps to that consideration of expansion. I would have to check and, um, I can get back to the group. That's one of the steps. So it's just so many steps that you have to… make it eligible for annexation, but it may not be eligible for annexation until you do a community planning effort. So, like what we did in North Boulder, that's when you would have. A lengthy process with the community to determine what are the land use designations that are appropriate, and the zoning. Thank you. So, lots more processes. With the comp plan more or less remains neutral.

[114:03] I've met on those many acres, that rent? Um… As far as land use designations? No, you won't designate a neighborhood type, for example. Correct. Or even reference the idea that this is… Future development area for Missing Middle, or any other. It's just not there. Yeah, I don't believe that we would do that as part of this update, and I think. Part of the consideration of that is that the comprehensive plan sort of time horizon. Is 20 years. And so, what we learned from our, um. Urban services study is… the timeline of financing and installing and doing all of the things to expand infrastructure to support redevelopment of. That area, um, may exceed the horizon for the comprehensive plan. So… If you could summarize…

[115:03] What's different about the comp plan direction? That would, uh, perhaps meet some needs in Boulder that are not being met today. This is building an obvious one. Housing more homeless people might be another one. Economic vitality is certainly another one. So, where do you think it's going, say, some of those issues? Yeah, I think, um, you know, the comprehensive plan that we have now. Certainly has… housing affordability as an area of focus, but I would say is not. So explicit in the concept that. We're going to try to get more units in the city. Um, it's a little wishy-washy on that, I would say. Um, so we're trying to be really explicit to say we're working towards increasing our housing supply. So that's a shift. Um, the, uh, another shift in both. Policy and how that's playing out in this land use map is that question of.

[116:08] Um, unit type and variety of housing, and where those things can happen and take place in redevelopment. Um, so that's another… kind of, um, move, um, on the housing front. Um, related to economic vitality. Um, there's… a couple of, you know, I think big things influencing. How we're rethinking, um, things like. Dependence on sales tax revenue. Um, and what that means for our retail environment. Um, and all of that is also kind of connected to land use, and so… Um, if we're not using ground floor spaces for retail. Um, is housing the thing that we want to see? Are there other commercial.

[117:04] Ways that we want to use ground floor spaces, um, are there… civic area, you know, civic uses, are there things… someone mentioned daycare? Um… So, thinking about… about that related to economic vitality, um. Certainly, um, thinking about… The visitor economy and tourism, and what. Um, the influence of Sundance will have on our community, and how we can. Um, both support that… The way that the… festival, um, offers and brings so much to the community, but also. Helps safeguard the things that people cherish that, um, people are concerned about with that.

[118:01] Big of a event coming to town. Um, and then definitely a lot of conversations just about. Local industry in general, and how we're seeing that change, and what does that mean. Um, both in how that impacts jobs and incomes locally, but also spaces. Um, and then I feel like I had one more. Big economic one. Home-based business? Oh, yeah, um… you know, one of… The economy is one of the focus areas that community members want to talk about, and. We've heard from a lot of community members about. Feeling excluded from the local economy, and that. The cost of rent for a commercial space is too high, and that the barriers to having. Um, a business or trying to be entrepreneurial are significant, and so one of the new policies that we've added to the comprehensive plan supports the concept of home-based businesses.

[119:09] And, um, we've been studying other communities. Um, from the perspective of form, and what. Business space might look like, and… what the kind of traffic impacts are, and… deliveries for businesses, things like that, and how that kind of influences the way a neighborhood. Looks and feels over time. And then one more big issue that's become much more prevalent. Resilience, of course. You know, we… we've been through the Marshall Fire, we've been through the floods. Yeah. This affects housing and all elements of the comp plan, it seems. What do you think the comp plan will have to say about that? Yeah, so, um… you know, I think the last update was, um, the last major update was 2015, so there is a lot of policy in the current comprehensive plan around. Um, flood. Protection and mitigation, and so similar, we've gone through a lot of recent, um, wildfires, and that's been definitely a priority topic for community members so far, so…

[120:12] Um, I think we've had a lot of conversations, um, related to land use and the concept of. Density in the WUI, what does that look like in the future? And, um, I would say that the direction that the comp plan is going is this concept of. Fire-adapted communities. We live in a place where. Fires happen, and… We are, um… sort of planning for certain, protection. Um, but also recognizing that. Response and recovery. Are going to be essential, because they will happen, and they will continue to happen. So that… that concept of fire-adapted communities is… new to the comprehensive plan.

[121:07] Say it's a 30,000 foot, so you're not gonna get… drill down on such specific policies, but it's going to be referenced. Yes, and it helps, I think. Guide collaboration between. Departments like Office of Emergency Management and Planning and Development Services. We were just kind of locked in a room for the last two days doing the next iteration on the policy, so… I'm glad those were top of mind. Any other questions from Pat? Comments? Yeah, I don't know, I think it's a question. When, um… Carl Geiler was here last year. In recent years. Uh, trying to push on what was allowable.

[122:04] But the zoning code changes… Restricted by the comprehensive plan, you know, it… And, you know, just one of the themes that popped up is, like, well. We're doing as much as we can, so to speak, I mean. We're trying to push as hard as we can based on what. That use map allows. And so… Um, that use map was very much playing this role of. Um, restricting what… how the zoning could evolve. And now it sounds like… the new, kind of. Complete redoing of this map is gonna… give… give someone like Carl a, you know, if he's charged by city council, to say, hey, go… Could be more innovative with zoning. He'll have a lot more options, his team will have a lot more… maybe it's your team, um, I don't know.

[123:04] A lot more options to expand what's possible, right? Um, I guess… Is the… is the notion, though, still that that map is still sort of, like, a restricting. Thing, and if not, then what's the point of it? Yeah, that's a, um… a good question. Um… I do think that… Um, some… community members, and, you know. Staff historically have. Um, used the land use map as a… Restrain or constrain on… growth in particular. Um, and so I do think that… We have heard a shift in the community, and certainly a shift in the leadership. That is allowing us to rethink that map as being able to describe.

[124:04] Opportunity, and be, um, less focused on restraint. And it was nice to be paired with the Bloomberg work tonight, because I think. You know, um, one of the concepts highlighted the need to. Loosen the reins a little bit. Um… what was the term? What? Evote control. Give out control. So, I think it's consistent with some of that, I think. For sure. Um, and as far as, like, what is the point, now that it isn't a limiting thing. Um, along with, like, showing opportunity, I think it, um… speaks to… um, shows, like, the direction, um, and, like, the… The way zoning can change, so it, like, it pushes the direction. Um, and that's its purpose, is to kind of, like, push that direction forward.

[125:05] Um, because without that structure. There's no, like… when someone applies for a rezoning decision. There's no, like… Guidance. Guidance. So this still allows guidance while also… pushing towards a future. Vision. My first impression is I really like it. If you have any questions? Thank you very much. Thank you. Yeah, thanks for your feedback today. Alright, I guess it kind of goes, sorry, sorry. It's not necessarily directed to you, but we're… Okay, so how… how are… how…

[126:02] How does HAB appropriately participate with this? I told them that someone would ask that question. How is that appropriately participate in this? So, collecting your feedback tonight is important because we are in the midst of. Drafting those policies, working on this land use structure. Um, certainly any of the community events or taking the survey is very helpful. We asked some pretty specific. Questions in that survey that will direct policies, and so… The response to that. You know, I know will be shared with Planning Board and City Council. Um, to either demonstrate support or opposition for some of. These concepts. Um, so participating in that is super helpful. Um, and then, um… you know, I… I think…

[127:02] Um, maybe Anil was talking about this during dinner, but, um… attending and speaking at, um, hearings for these items really directs a lot of the conversation when boards and council are considering. Um, some of these kind of big, significant projects, so it's really helpful to have. Representatives speak. We spoke to vote on these. Questions tonight, or are these just… Um, we don't need a vote. No vote. But any feedback here? I do have a question. Kind of a big one. Maybe I need to read my packet carefully, but… Despite your excellent presentation. I didn't really get the feeling for the vision of… You know, Boulder is a… more inclusive, more affordable, more transit-oriented, more sustainable, you know, it's probably in there, but… Could you just say that violently? Sure, do you want to go to this one? There is a slide that has a vision statement, and I think that the idea of inclusivity.

[128:08] Um, is one of the driving. Um, forces of that vision statement. Um, and then a focus area we have identified this, um. Go-around is the multi-generational, multicultural. Community, so that's, you know, we're pushing policy in that area. So if I'm just looking at this at home and clicked on those icons, some… Language would come up about each of those. Yes. I… if you go to olderfuture.org, then yes, yeah. Yeah, I was like, if you click on this, know nothing will happen. The PDF for this. But yes, there'll be more information about this. Could we go forward one slide? Uh, this way? Now, again, one more.

[129:00] This one? I'm sorry, it's one that has a grid of tiles. This one? No, not that one. The tiles, that's all of our work all the time. This one? Sorry, I do have one more question. Um, and we debated this a little bit in an earlier ab meeting. Um, not a lot of clarity about. What's the comp plan actually means? Is it strictly a vision document, or is it a regulatory… Documents. Um, it's a vision document, um, but we have code language that says certain things need to be consistent with policies of the Comprehensive plan. Right. Also, um… And, you know, the… this kind of hierarchy of planning, um. When, um, we evaluate things like the capital improvement program. The request for certain funds for capital improvements have to demonstrate how they are implementing the comprehensive plan.

[130:07] This needs to be in compliance with the cut plan. That's kind of where the rubber hits the road for coupling implementation, right? Yes, and I think, you know. Another big piece of it is a lot of these policies, because they are written. To describe a future, to describe a goal. They direct a lot of department work plans. Um, because it is comprehensive in nature, it touches all city departments. That's the bottom one, say, in the second column? Uh, innovation and production. And that came out of, um, a lot of that, um, I'm not sure how much you guys participated in the. Um, East Boulder area plan, but there was interest by the community in that area, and.

[131:01] Community at large to integrate some housing options into specific industrial areas. And create more of those kind of mixed-use industrial. Work-live areas. Philip, are you thinking, like, you're about to ask another question, or you're, like, absorbing? Um, I think I'm absorbing. I, uh, I feel bad that I know it. Like, we've talked a lot about. Bbcp and… And we need to be ready to give good comments and feedback, and I feel like we're… Falling flat a little bit. Or maybe they just did such a good job. I mean, for me, honestly, um, the use map is, like, the thing I always think about. In terms of what could unlock potential of Boulder, and um… I'm really happy you're doing this work, and um…

[132:03] I would love for Carl Geiler to be told that his team needs to be more innovative with zoning after this new comprehensive plan comes out. He will have a lot more room to. To, you know… Explore housing types, and… I mean, the zoning regulations are very… They're ground level, and it's not like because you change this, that's all gonna change, right? Like, everything… Is process-oriented, and it's going to take a long time, but I'm really glad that this one piece. Uh, is gonna make a lot of other opportunities possible. So, that's my feedback. Well, that was actually one of my questions, is do you expect that the City of Boulder. Will simplify or make their zoning code more flexible and response to the BBCB? Um, so… My understanding is I haven't been here for a major update before, but my understanding is after every major update.

[133:05] There's typically a series of code update projects that come out of the comp plan update, so… Thank you. There's likely to be updates. I'll make a… I think I gave you the same comment on planning board, but one of the things that I think might be unique. To this, um, the comp plan update. It is a 15-minute neighborhood. Um, and… what I'm most interested in seeing is in the neighborhood. Um… area… land uses. How the zoning is going to actually encourage. 15-minute neighborhoods, because when you think about a 15-minute neighborhood. Um, they're not all attached to a node. They're not all attached to a place where there's. Services that is not attached to a reason to go 15 minutes by foot. So… the idea that you could.

[134:07] Potentially get… of excuse opportunity in what was historically. Um, all single-family residential. I think that is one of the things that we'll start to really. Hit the ground with this kind of thinking, is that we want a different outcome. Right? We want our city to take on this… this ability to, um… create places that are sustainable. And by… you can walk to a lot of stuff, and then take the next level of transportation, et cetera, et cetera. But I think… for that to be able to translate it to zoning, there have. There has to be some real drop-downs. To say, okay, 15-minute neighborhoods. Are going to be… and I don't know where… how this language. Where the funding didn't show up. But some direction to, um, the 15-minute neighborhoods in these different land use areas.

[135:05] So that they, in fact, translate, as opposed to, well, it's a great idea, and go figure it out. Parcel by parcel, right? Which is what we're trying to get away from. Right. 50-minute neighborhood implies that, you know. Not all the parcels had the same opportunity. Right. Um, and I think that needs to be a little more explicit, as it. Trickles down so that we can get. Um, one of the things with the innovative thinking was, you know, let's get what we're looking for. Let's set… put things in place so that we get the outcomes that we want, and… We know we haven't gotten to that yet, so… I'm excited about the BBCP… this particular direction you all are taking. I think it's going to give the opportunity to. Start looking like the city where we want to be ESO. Thank you for your great efforts. Well, I guess my reaction to that is actually… Goes in the opposite direction, because the… if you looked at the… I would assume that if you saw the whole map and you saw how much was Neighborhood 1.

[136:07] I don't know how you convert Neighborhood 1, even as they've more loosely defined it, into 15-minute neighborhoods. It's gonna be… how it comes down through zoning. Oh, yeah, so… so both neighborhoods are also going to allow. Some level of small-scale neighborhood-serving commercial as a potential use, so there can be that change. And then the local hub itself. Is thought of as a scale of, kind of like a one-block section, um, cross-section, like, intersection. Um, and those maybe would be dispersed. Within the neighborhood one. So, it would allow some more commercial opportunities, and. The way I like to think about it, and when we came up with this idea, you know, that local hub and allowing commercial and neighborhoods brings the balance of commercial in residential areas up.

[137:00] And then the community hubs. Which will likely be identified in places that are kind of already these shopping centers. Um, brings the opportunity of residential up. Um, so then it's, you know, it's bringing, kind of, the balance and creating a… A full network. That was a soapbox. I retract my pessimism. I don't want to cut people off, but I keep it like any other comments? Jay, are we supposed to have any other questions? I think so. Thank you very much. All right, now we're going to switch to have member quarterly update. Michael LeChese. Ooh. That's my item, isn't have a note. Darn thing about it. All right.

[138:05] It's not until the second event. Well, I think I'm going to try and do it quarterly, and then we got a little bit derailed, and so… I don't know that would you get a chance? Yeah. Oh, can I just comment a little bit? So, I think maybe it was at the June meeting that. We approved the… the wording of the statement that I read at City Council. I did… Take the liberty to edit it slightly, since the tents had changed, uh, because the… For example, the report that had already come out. Um, uh… Anyways, that it would… I… I don't… I don't remember the exact dates, but I, um, twice, I signed up for open comment, and Vice got. Uh… didn't get selected, and then this last time when I went, there was only 13 commenters, so… And actually, one of the times I didn't get selected, I was really glad I didn't, because, um, it was the first time they did the new format.

[139:13] A large percentage of the. People who had gotten selected didn't have time to say they didn't actually get to… Save a piece, so… Anyways, when I signed up, there was only 13 commenters, and I got to go. My comments were exactly 2 minutes long, and uh… Yeah, it seemed… it seemed well received. I got… I mean. Who knows? I had one follow-up comment that Tara said, oh, thank you for sharing that. That one is September? Uh, I think it was August, but I'd have to double-check. I don't think it was this month. Yes. Yeah. But I would say… I would just say we approved it in June, so September. So, like, if you prepare something for the next meeting, then we can edit it, and then… And then, um, and then…

[140:11] Once the edits get approved, then you can just… Were you not… were… I thought you raised your hand and volunteered, were you just not… timing? For the record, publicly humiliated. That was not content. Thank you so much. That was my content. Okay, how about for next meeting, you prepare, like, a 2-minute statement that summarizes some of the previous meetings. That you are suggesting that you read to City Council. Okay, and the next meeting date is… Wednesday of October. October 28th. So I'll be… not here, but in New York City. But I'll prepare something to submit. For consideration. Okay, Michael. Would it be… appropriate timing to…

[141:04] Say something about the comp plan? Um, sure. I mean, maybe that's a part of your statement? Maybe you need to summarize what we've been ruminating about. Actually, I wanted to make a list of… She would like to be covered in our two minutes. I mean, it could even be all comp plan, like… Yeah, I… yeah, we might have further discussion about… Actual comp plan. In general, I guess, I was just saying. It might be the right time for you representing HAB to say something about the comp plan, whatever that is. Although the Bloomberg report… What about anything last month that you want to? Talk about? Oh, the real estate. Uh, yeah, that's really great.

[142:05] Um, circling back to, uh, the conversation about the quarterly, or. Tri-annual update. At our last meeting, uh, Tiffany had mentioned that City Council. Is proposing, like, a new… format or system for us to communicate with Council. Um, Tiffany, have you heard anything more to that effect? No, I haven't gotten any updates. And, um, you should probably also reference the… we had a good discussion about the clutch report. Wasn't it also last month? So, four big topics, 30 seconds each. That's roots. We have to talk fast. You have to practice. Um, so I'll get to the draft, and I probably won't be here to vote on it, but I'll get to it. Okay, great. And if you have the week before, I can include it in the packet, and then people have a little bit of time to October 15 by the time.

[143:10] Got it. Okay. Do we want to… are there any comments about the… work a plan that's attached. Any, um… Which is a little bit of concern that our, um, items to explore is a little weak. Um, so are there… topics we want to address? And then we definitely need something to add to November, December. Should… I feel like we should set some time aside to have a discussion about what we learned from the Bloomberg. Thing, or what? What we want to do about the comp plan? Like, do we… Do we want to, um… just voice our general support, or are there specific things? I feel like we need to kind of.

[144:01] Dig into that a little bit. Like a recap or feedback. Recap, feedback, put it on mute. Okay. Discussion? I think for sure on the comp plan. It sounds like you don't even know if City Council's gonna… Here in the Bloomberg stuff. And I guess what I was seeing in reference to Bloomberg is what… Information we received, both which… what Holly presented and what was in the packet. Some of that might… influence what we might want to say about the comp plan, I guess is what I was thinking. Because we could draft a recommendation to City Council based on either or both of those. Put these things in your work plan for next year. Exactly. So you will be asked to write a letter to City Council for their re… in preparation for the retreat. When's that a treat? Uh, February. Okay. March. Sometimes. Um, but typically, yeah, they'll… they'll want your feedback on what.

[145:06] You think Council should be working on for the next two years? Because remember, it's a two-year cycle. So, I would agree that it's helpful for you guys to carve out some time to talk about… Yeah. Or start thinking about what those priorities should be. And I guess I was thinking even before that. Timing-wise, do we need to… do something in reference to the comp plan. I don't quite remember what they're… I don't remember it was. It's gonna take a while. It's coming to Planning Board, but it's already been a year. December, I think. Okay, and then… okay, it's coming back to HAB. Early next year, I think. Uh, next spring, sort of the next touchpoint, yeah. But that's more of a… recap of the direction they decided to take? That'll be the final plan, yeah, for adoption.

[146:00] So it would be before that that we would want to. Anyway, my point is… maybe we should use some of our time in October or November. Slash December. I like that idea. And then, um… I think I mentioned this if we want to add it to that bottom of the work plan, is… Senior housing, that's not a topic we've really touched on since I've been on this board. That's obviously important, you know, demographic in our community. Full disclosure, I don't know who to reach out to, to talk to, or anything, I just… Feel like that's a voice that we haven't really heard from, and… maybe we should try to think that one through. Okay. Are we doing mobile home tours this weekend? No, I had a lot of… the matures, um, have been…

[147:07] Postponed, kind of, indefinitely until the spring. Oh, okay. There's, um, a panel. So, that is happening in… in the October meeting, and that is happening, but the tours got. Is that correct? Correct. I pushed back, yeah. Oh, it's more. Like, when, where, or boosting? I believe we have in the spring. Cindy, you're not there yet, are you? No, okay. Uh, Cindy was putting together a tour and, um. Finding hosts for the various places, and… Um, because of various life schedules, it's not gonna happen now. And so she was suggesting the spring, and that's as far as it went. And then, um… Is that what I understood? I read the email on my vacation, so…

[148:02] And then on a slightly different topic, Jay, uh… Do you know when City Council, like, does the budget? Isn't that starting soon? Uh, they're adopted. They're adopting it next month, or in a couple weeks, actually. Okay. Well, it's probably too late for us to weigh in on that process then, but sort of a high-level. Thought I had from last week's presentation on homelessness is. You know, the budget is a big… is a big part of what the city does. How are we gonna… Allocate our common funds, what are we going to prioritize? And perhaps in the future. That's something we want to look at and weigh in on. You know, how does what the city's considering for budgeting align with what we think are. Um, you know, the housing priorities. So, that's just kind of a high-level thing. I'm not really advocating for anything specific, but it might be something we want to pay more attention to in the future.

[149:04] Okay. I would say, like, a homework assignment for everybody is to. Think about topics that you'd like to explore, um, or maybe we focus on some of these. Items to address and restart planning. Um, some of these topics. All right. Nothing else. Um… Move on? Um, before we get to matters of staff, um. I have an announcement, which is, um… If a new job, um, I've… I'm retired from banking, and I'm now working at the University of Colorado in their real estate center, advising students. Working with companies to help hire them and doing podcasts as part of.

[150:04] Thought leadership, um… I have standing meetings that are on Wednesdays, and so I am going to be resigning from this board effective. Like, now, um, and I will not be… at future meetings. So, we may want to talk about, like. Who's the chair, who becomes the new vice chair, and any, like, Dewey… Do we fill my position, or do we wait until… April, so, um… It has been a pleasure to be on this board. I really think you are. Smart and conscientious and ask great probing questions, and are very competent, and so… I feel really honored and blessed to have been part of this group, so thank you. Thank you. Great job on that. Congratulations, and boom! Don't take it personally, Phyllis. That doesn't mean it doesn't hurt.

[151:10] Congratulations on your career move, Karen, and let's go Buffs! I'm sure you'll be a great addition to… our wonderful university here in Boulder, so I'm… I'm sad to see you leave, but I'm happy to hear that. You're making a… what I see as a good career move. Thank you, Jen. What are next steps? So we'll be down one member until Council appoints, uh, in… Was it February? February? March? Yeah, so it's late February, early March. Is anybody else rolling off? Very cool, that's remarks will be two vacancies. Wow, when are applications for the board? It usually goes out late December, I want to say, or mid-December, right?

[152:00] Yeah, I highly encourage you to, like, recruit people, like, who bring expertise or very… you know, involved or thought-provoking, so that you have a say in what these future discussions are like. That can be very effective, I don't think he would be. Sitting here if you haven't been approached. Approached by you, yeah. …to very good, uh, ad members. So one thing we'll put on the agenda for next month, uh, elections. Chair and vice chair. So Karin has agreed to stay on, thankfully. All right. You mean, like, the board? Yeah. I would nominate you to be chair, but I don't think I have a vote anymore. I don't think you… I wouldn't have interest in that. Can we do it tonight? Do you want to vote tonight? We can. Uh, I nominate…

[153:02] That's good to be in chair, succeeding Karen Clever. I second. I would… I… I would vote for that, for sure, and I also would be… I don't know if you get to vote on that, Karen, but if you don't, I second and I support it. All right, I'm sorry. I was just gonna say, I would be interested in being vice chair. And I would second that. Oh, I guess so. I nominate one. To be vice chair. I second, even though I'm not allowed. So we have to vote on both those. I'm in favor of all those proposals. Do we want to wait till next month if Cindy's here? Um, you know… would have… I don't know, that's just a thought. I'm fine with whatever. Thank you. Then promoting? And I don't know, I think I'm exempt from voting.

[154:03] I will vote. If my vote counted. I like Karna's chair, and Lauren as vice, but I don't know if my vote counts, so… does it? It's more to… does anyone not… How's that? So we can't wait till Cindy's back. Um… Some of you wouldn't think that Cindy would have a different view? I can speak for her, but it is, I think so. But even if she voted no. She'd be outvoted by all the other yeses. But I defer… I defer. Why don't we do it formally? Next month, um, Bakarin will, uh, act as chair for me. Since she's… that's her duty as vice chair. How's that sound? Alright. Solution that we take care of that for a beer as soon as possible. Just not tonight, but yes, I love that idea. I don't know, I had to talk closer.

[155:12] Yeah, 25 minutes. Yeah. Thank you, brain check. Thank you. Week 3 so far, it's been really great. I'm really happy, but I told her it was super inspiring for her to. Thank you for your service on the Housing Advisory Board, Karen. Change her career. Thank you, Chip. I appreciate it. We can still call you and stuff. Absolutely! I'm not falling off the face of the earth, I'm just not a banker. All right. Matters from staff. I think I told you that we got… we're finally getting some money from the state. For housing, which is very exciting. So, we've got $2.8 million for rehabilitation, um.

[156:03] And a program for mobile homes, and also single-family homes. You have to income unless I qualify. But something we haven't had for a number of years, so that's huge for us, particularly for the homes that are mobile homes that are… The state is practically condemned Mapleton, so that'll be huge for those households. But it's gonna take us a little time to stand it up. We, um, just last week, we got another grant for almost $2 million for… to purchase homes, uh, and… on the market, and make them deed-restricted. But, so it's basically what we've been doing in Boulder. That I've told you about. We're doing it for the county. So we're gonna buy homes in other communities, like Lafayette and Erie. Louisville. Um, so we have $2 million to do that, uh, so… So, um, it's part of our regional housing partnership, uh, and the county, through our, uh.

[157:10] Through previous ARPA funding is actually hoping to fund city staff. To provide compliance services for the entire county. I've talked about this before, but a lot of. Small jurisdictions, you know, like Lyons and all that, they don't have dedicated housing staff, so… We have a program that's been around for, you know, 30 years. So we basically are providing that service, because… increasing affordable housing availability countywide helps the city of Boulder. Does that correlate at… All with looking for those homes in those smaller communities. Yes. Yeah, we will be. Okay, so you might buy a home in Lyons, or in Netherland, or Louisville, Lafayette, Longmont, Erie.

[158:01] Broomfield, or no? Nope, within the county? And then the construction single-family home and mobile funds, do those go through the TRG? Um… That is a good question. No, I don't believe they do. So it's basically, um, their program… there'll be program guidelines that. We propose to the state, and if you meet those guidelines, we… we provide funding. But there's, like, a max, like, no more than $50,000 per person or something like that. What program is this through? It's a newish… it's a, well, it's… it's a reiteration of an old program. That Steve has. The state is giving us money to do it, but what we're doing it… I guess, sorry, to clarify, uh, which program through the state are you getting funds through? Oh. Is that 123, or… Um. Yes, they are both Prop 123, but I can't tell you… I think they're both through DOLA, not OED.

[159:06] Um, but I don't remember the names of all the different products. And then, logistically, how does the city buy. Um, so you have a broker? Is it staff doing it? Does that work? We have brokers that we… well, we have staff that identify them. We have a broker that… Oh, so you have the homes already? I'm sorry? You have the homes selected already? No. Oh, okay. But we've been doing it in Boulder for the last… 5 years? Oh, got it. Um… The group at their home about entertainment. So, um, we're just gonna scale it up and… I think it's exciting. Most likely that would be directed towards buying, um. 5 dozen townhomes to make the money go a little farther. In Boulder, that's pretty much all we can afford. Um, you've been talking about single-family homes are not really an option. Um, we do focus on… At a minimum, two bedrooms, and ideally two baths.

[160:05] Because that's kind of, um, sort of a basic that we find is more desirable. But, uh, in the rest of the county, we may be able to buy something. That's close to a time nose for, uh, even some single time. Is there, like, a max purchase price? Yeah, it'll be tied to, um, basically our, our, uh… Um, our schedule of sales prices for homes that are in our program. So, it'll be targeted between 100 and 120% of EMR. So this is middle income. Will these phones be in Boulder's portfolio? City of Boulder's portfolio, or how does that work? They will have a deed restriction, similar to Boulder's. Um, and the City of Boulder will monitor them. So, like, when we count the number of… Yes, we will… the region will be able to count it as permanently affordable.

[161:03] Um, but… It's home ownership, so it's the homeowner that owns it, right? Oh, I see. Exciting. Yeah. Congratulations. Yeah. Yeah, we're very excited about that. And then the other thing is habitat, uh, for humanity is having a, um. An event that you're all going to be invited to. It's at the Modular factory, it's sort of after hours. It should be kind of fun. I think they're going to provide drinks, and… Um, give a tour of the facility, so… They want you to donate money, but I told them you may not have deep pockets, but you might know people with deep pockets. Or maybe you have deep pockets and haven't told me. That's what it is. It's a fundraiser. It's also just a publicity event, and the more people that are there and get excited about it.

[162:00] To the G? It's coming up soon, but, um, you'll get an invite. I was looking for it earlier, and I was… You can find the email, sir. That's it, that's all I got. Alright, final thoughts, suggestions from the group? Yeah, it just occurred to me that we have a forum. No, we might know, next month. Everybody should. There's a vote on the chair by chair. Oh, because you'll be here. Karen won't be here. We don't know who else, but… You hope yourself when you… Run for office. He has poor form. What do you mean I didn't? Fair enough. So, what do you think? You know, I am all… In favor of taking a vote tonight, but I realized, like. I'm voting, and then I'm rolling off the board. So… But if we don't see any… I don't see any urgency, I think it's… I think it's thoughtful to let Cindy.

[163:11] Weighed in and vote if she has thoughts. And if we don't have a form, then we do it at the meeting after that, and… Okay. I'll try to call into the meeting refresh myself. Um, I have one very small technical comment, and that is, sometimes when I'm looking at the screen, I watch the. The transcription go by. And, um, it made me think that where I'm working, they implemented a new. Zoom AI Companion. I don't know if that's an option for you, but um… If you click that button. Maybe that's a… maybe that's a contractual thing between the city and Zoom or something, but anyways, if that ever pops up. Um, you might consider pushing it and saying that the summary that gets… it generates a detailed summary that might be.

[164:06] Useful for putting in your minutes, or for your, um… putting the minutes together. So I just thought I'd mention that. I haven't seen it, but I'll absolutely look for it. I was gonna have a job anyway, so what happens? Good thing you're retired. If it makes you feel better, there's been a lot of lawyers who've gotten in trouble for using AI and have been disciplined by the bar. So, I don't know if it's 100% the future, I just know I shouldn't use it. Interesting. All right, anything else? If not, I'll make a motion to adjourn. Seconded. Seconded. All in favor of adjourning? All right. Thank you. Thank you, too. Yes. Have a good evening, everyone.

[165:02] Good luck, Karen. Thank you! You have my contact, you don't have to be a stranger. AbsolutelyYeah, it's good.