August 25, 2021 — Housing Advisory Board Regular Meeting

Transcript

[MM:SS] timestamps correspond to the YouTube recording.

[0:01] And then, if it's coreys zoom account she'll get the link for. Should. hear that. Thank you alright it's recording to get away Michael. Great. Welcome to the meeting for August, Michael a cheesy i'm the Chair that housing Advisory Board. And we have a very full and interesting agenda tonight, I think we have at least one member of the public here for comment. i'll remind you that comment should be limited to non agenda items correct me if i'm wrong that jake and it will be a separate comment period for our discussion of the Alpine balsam redevelopment. So we'll start with roll call. Terry prompts. For. Jackie show the end. yeah. Danny. here. yeah. richie Danny. Julia.

[1:02] Julia. And you. know I remember, I remember her saying, she couldn't make this. process right. Okay, I remember her saying. Well, thank you all for being here i'll go over the agenda. for being here on the agenda. Sorry, I think i'm getting an ECHO I don't know why. So. first item on the agenda, we did roll call again. I apologize i'm having technical difficulties. I apologize i'm having a little difficulty i'm. Calling back into my phone sound is terrible are. Going back into my iPhone sound is terrible.

[2:11] um well Danny I mean you could technically take over. Well, I mean you could technically to cover. Everybody right now. yeah. Everybody. Be cool if it was a concert but. I think, is the problem song. Maybe this is lupica maybe we want to go each person trying to say something and see if the ECHO is that every single person's because. jj spoken adding a hearing an ECHO so Michael definitely has it and I think some other people have so maybe we can go through that elimination.

[3:06] Then I get one. You sounded great and just a reminder, it helps everybody mute themselves and only speak. hello, am I, echoing. know. And I. J here not. repeat a year that jack you're up. hold on i'm just having really bad connectivity issues my Internet both video and sound are terrible. here.

[4:02] I think i'm still having sound problems. Maybe not. You sound pretty good Michael. Good that's great. i'm good. Did you go through the agenda. Go ahead, Michael we're waiting for you. yeah did. Danny go through the agenda. Now okay will be approving the Middles the Minutes items three have been to be public, preservation with open comment. Since we do that, then what matters from Council, this is a big one, the presentation on. Alpine balsam form based code and boulder really comprehensive plan and follow up a step presentation from Jason and gene gazza will be additional opportunity for public coming out to that and then questions from the board and we may make a recommendation with a vote.

[5:00] managed from the board we're having a presentation on the middle income housing strategy review, there are two attachments link to the agenda, one is the original middle income housing strategy done by BBC consultants and then there's the city report from October 2016 just. summarize that recommended the addition of 3500 and middle income housing units to boulder by I believe 2030 letter, the Council have central brief letter, the Council every year. stating what going well, what is that going well, what. What can be changed, what the future might hold and then we could have committee reports on some tiny home studies that have has been involved with. Including a proposal for amending misspoke cold movable at us. Matters from staff at 840 meeting debrief and calendar check at 834 and we hope to return by nine.

[6:03] So with that. let's see. Trying to make a motion on approval minutes jake. or asked one. Third, yes. move to approve the Minutes from July 28 2021 or last me. A second. i'll call a vote I vote to approve the Minutes against. We got everybody great. Okay, public participation, we have. Three minutes for public comment, and I believe we have Dan more available to. do that. I don't have any public comment i'm just here to observe the board because i'm curious about boys so.

[7:02] Okay, no comments great we will go right into the next. Day back on. The Alpine well, so this is item five or base code and boulder valley COMP plan follow up. which could lead to some reasonings which we will have input and possibly recommendation, and so I will turn it over to Jay signet engine gotta to brief us on this, and then we will go on to the next part of the agenda. There we go can everybody see that. Yes. put it into presentation mode. working on it.

[8:00] I was that. Much better. Okay, all right, well, thank you, everybody so i'm joined with. Our with us tonight is Jean data to senior planner with the planning and planning and development services so many of you may be familiar with her she's. deeply involved in the Alpine balsam area plan, as well as the comprehensive plan update in both of the all of the items that you're going to be discussing tonight are directly related to both projects so. There are really two ordinances under consideration, plus. Third recommendation The first one is an ordinance that would create a forum based code or Alpine balsam area, and I will go into more detail with that means the second is a general revision to the cities. And that is typically done following the land use a map update done through the comprehensive plan process, so the 2020 midterm update was completed last December and typically within six to eight months we try to follow on with rezoning.

[9:15] And so that's what that's all about and then third is really just an amendment to the outline balsam area plan connections plan and we'll talk more about that, but that requires formal approval from both planning board and city council. So I, how do we get here so Alpine balsam area plan, as I mentioned, was adopted by both planning board and City Council back in 2019. This was a very detailed area plan lot of Community engagement I didn't list all of the events, but it was a multi year effort. A lot of discussion at Council and planning Board and the Community and the it's there's the plan itself is quite detailed and i'll talk about why that's important a little bit later.

[10:05] The comprehensive plan in terms of how we got here today, as I mentioned, there was a process that's done every COMP plan update. This was a mid term update so in the spring of summer of last year, there was quite a bit of initial screening and Community engagement that identified potential land use changes anyone in the Community can recommend or request to change and those get evaluated. Through a process and that process home in that culminated in December with the planning board and City Council decision to adopt those changes to the ladies designation map. Alright, so in terms of foreign based code because that's really where we focused our Community engagement over the past six eight months. We held a Community briefing on may 24 we spent quite a bit of time talking about sort of the where the foreign based code originated why we're considering a forum based code things that we're going to talk about this evening.

[11:11] We. Based through the area plan we share a draft that discussion draft of the potential code changes. We shared a summary because not everybody likes to read code, so we tried to provide a summary of the major changes. And that presentation all those were made available on the project website, we also held some office hours in June apply for people really want to dig into the details and. Several people actually did it took us up on the offer we spent quite a bit of time chatting with people answering questions. We also did a questionnaire on bigger bolder so that was open from June to the end of July and just over 190 people provided feedback on the farm base code specifically.

[12:03] So I am going to go back to the general revision so we're going to start with that first. So, as I said, it's a general revision to the city zoning map we basically repeal and replace the existing zoning map when we do this type of work, and there are four specific areas that we focus on. One is helping balsam so the two projects are obviously related are some properties nearing hillside road. properties at 47th which is belmont and foothills parkway and then also up in gun barrel effort, yet. So first one. This was initiated by the city. And this is specific to city, the city own property between Alpine and between balsam and also between nine and broadway does not include that yellow and pink parcel in the southwest corner here.

[13:03] That is not city out, so the request was all that the land use designation was public and what we propose or what was adopted was a change. from public for the western half or Western portion of the site to high density residential and this this corner this purple hatch area to mixed use. and rationale for that change last last year was that it was consistent with the compliance policies as well the area plan for Alpine balsam. So what we're recommending today is a change or that Laura large portion that was public from from what is it from P sorry to our our each side. and also the.

[14:01] North Western piece. Changes running from key to use for, and the reason for doing that is it it really aligns with Alpine balsam area plan we'll talk more about that in the next part of the presentation. But any questions about Alpine balsam what's being proposed, and why, before I move on to the next property. Okay, keep going. odell You might remember this, so the boulder housing partners purchased a piece of property, just an acre in gun barrel and. requested to change through that process from mixed use industrial to high density residential so that was changed last fall. Again, it was consistent with the BBC policies, and it was done large because it supports the city's housing goals, so this would be half early permanently affordable deed restricted housing project BHP is currently land baking this in would redevelop it as their capacity allows.

[15:11] But not only, it is also consistent with the gun barrel Community Center plan vision for that area, which is characterized by it makes a residential and compatible light industrial uses. So the changing. would be from adjuster. I g to rattle high five or each five again consistent with the COMP plan designation, and we also selected our H5 because it's consistent with this morning to the north. Any questions about that one, this is all is pretty straightforward. The property at 47th street so when there was initiated by our property owner. And it has been medium density residential for quite some time but developed as a business years.

[16:03] So what they request their request was to change it from that medium density residential to transitional business. So that was that change was made with consistent with the COMP plan policies also the transitional business as implied by the name it provides that transition to the residential area and aligns with the existing character in the current office uses on the site. So this is what the zoning would look like change from it to be transitional one again The reasons are somewhat for comprehensive plan to. interrupt me, you have any questions, otherwise i'm going to keep going. So yeah. Please dnc. it's just strictly. edelman process so far, and you know specific development ideas.

[17:00] For being see. More is entirely already. developed. His office. Be odell place is a vacant lot and that's why I was saying boulder housing partners would likely develop the entire site as a really affordable housing project. Right that's. Absolutely proposal correct yeah Thank you. So hillside So these are property owners, this is near the university and what we're not exactly sure we think it was a mapping error that happened over time. A lot of these. are two properties have split zoning and also or had have split zoning and had split land use designation on their property, so what this does is it basically just correct those errors makes a consistent with the. BBC policies are.

[18:01] Those mapping previous mapping areas, so this is what it looks like for each property. These are. single family homes that would change from our H1 or public to. Potential the one is. Does the reverse it goes from. rl to to public, because this is actually owned by the University, so it just cleans up that zoning in that area there's more work to be done, but that was a much bigger effort, particularly around this area and boulder high school. So any questions about that, before I jump into the client balsam form based code. Is that clear. yeah again being very obvious here so Adams C and D there's no housing this growth kind of technical zoning planning changes.

[19:01] Correct Thank you. anyone else. All right, on to the media stuff i'm balsam. So Alpine balsam has been going on for quite some time, as you recall, when you purchase the sites and back in 2015 there was. discussed need to look at doing an area plan for the for the site and also the larger area, how does it relate to the downtown. As well as the services offered up North older at broadway actress so there's a pretty, as I mentioned it pretty lengthy planning for us to develop that area plan i'm going to walk through very quickly, so the purchase back in 2015 again. we're focused. On just this area between Alpine and balsam broadway and ninth.

[20:00] Not these two properties. And, but the overall vision plan for the area was that it become this vibrant multi generational hub for Community life and local government services so that vision plan is really what started and laying the groundwork for what the future of Alpine balsam should be. And, as I keep mentioning the area plan was adopted in 2019. Planning board and City Council, at the same time, the city had previously purchased the Briton building they've completed the renovation. And that opened boulder Community hospital moved out of this of the area and the work began in earnest of actually implementing the area so everything we're talking about tonight, the purpose is really to realize that vision.

[21:01] It makes sure that everything that we do is in alignment with the comprehensive plan, as well as the. So just the next few slides really just help provide a little bit of context there's a lot going on and i'll paint balsam. That don't specifically relate to what we're talking about tonight, but are helpful for context so hospital deconstruction think everybody's probably seen the Shell of the building that encourages deconstruction was completed last year. The exterior is currently under deconstruction and we expected. In early next year. The energy strategy, there was a really fascinating energy feasibility and that was just earlier this year, there was a. Public meeting to discuss it, I won't go into the details, but it was very encouraging, because it said that not only is net zero feasible on the site, but it will be cost effective to accomplish.

[22:07] The regulatory changes, this is what we're talking about now so again last fall and December 2020 those land use changes were made to the COMP plan. And right now we're talking about the rezoning and the adoption of four days. Once the regulatory structure is in place, then there has to be the exploration of a general improvement district, which would have all the accessibility pieces that are necessary to make the site work future housing and office use. And then, also a flood mitigation, so a lot of the design, work has been completed their. additional steps they need to happen with the amount in terms of approvals, but that construction should be in in early 2022. So those are a lot of the other activities that are happening.

[23:03] And an important piece of this is the Western campus the idea that Alpine balsam becomes the home to a lot of city functions right so. We have a lot of our services and our PR staff scattered and buildings throughout the city, the ideal would be to consolidate them in a single location. So for the pandemic kind of threw that for a bit of a loop sort of redefined we work so we're still working through those issues and how that space should be designed and programs. But that should happen be complete in the next year will then they will move through city review and promoting construction and potentially occupancy by 2025, and this is actually lined up fairly well with potential future development housing on the site as well. So the schedule there's a lot going on, we were pretty close to sticking with this basic time.

[24:06] And this is just that. there's a lot of interdependencies. Work in one area if other and it's a big puzzle that we city staff and our partners are working. So, as I said, they area plan is really the basis for the form based code, so it. To go through and understand what that calls for. Specifically, before we talk about the area plan. So i'll start with the access and mobility recap so there's this flood mitigation, which is running through the site east, west just north or just south of balsam avenue. There is a new 11th street connection north, south through the site that doesn't exist there are new bike and pedestrian connections and I have these little comments that.

[25:00] So there's the greenway there's a new pedestrian connections linear parks. The mobility hub, so the idea of these first and last mile strategies are share bike parking bike share. ways to help increased mobility through the site, there is also the shared parking facility that the city owns so all of the parking would be shared, for the site we're not proposing any new parking. With the exception of potentially this Western parcel those units would be self self parked. And then the basically the East blocks, so this is, as I mentioned the Luxor Plaza and city service hub. and new public Plaza so the city would also develop this or be responsible for developing the public Plaza as well as 11th street and the.

[26:01] greenway those are elements that would happen. In parallel with the the pavilion reconstruction and then what's a little bit different is the FLEX space. So we are looking at this portion of the site potentially to relocate the age wall Center West so currently the age well Center at ninth and arapaho for older adults. it's a much older building. In disrepair it's also snake significant portion of it is in the floodplain so if we could relocate this to provide better services to our older adults, that would be ideal. And another potential idea is to provide housing for older adults specific to older adults in the upper floors as well, so those are ideas that are getting explored for the Eastern bloc. The Center block so new housing, so this is high density housing there a plan called for three stories stack floods.

[27:06] The FLEX use that there was quite a bit of discussion with the county after the area plan was adopted for potential Colocation with county. Civic uses or county uses that was decided to be infeasible and I won't go into all the reasons, but basically now, it will be the focus is for story. housing. The Western block, so this is the also identity, housing, but it's really limited to two to three stores. and Potentially some static flats, but the focus is on townhomes. And then, just to recap, so the idea is that the balance land uses to achieve sort of that city facilities consolidation, with a strong focus on affordable housing and we can talk about that more.

[28:03] And a diversity of housing types as well, very important that diversity of tenure rental very and ownership unit sizes, who we're going to start, or do we want to provide for a multigenerational. And it's going to provide some very significant improvements to the public ground in terms of access mobility, as you can see, with all the new walkways street connections and a lot more permitted permeability through the site. Everybody with me so far. Okay. So the building height. We just like to be very clear, so the four base code is taking it's cute directly from the area plan in terms of what are called out for in terms of building heights and you'll see that, in the form of vs code. And, before I talk about form as code, I just wanted to be clear, so we did evaluate some different approaches, so we could could have gone with traditional zoning could have gone with foreign based code.

[29:10] Early on, I think we we received support from both the planning board at the time and City Council to pursue foreign based code. To provide some more predictable results and explain exactly how it does that. So if you're not familiar with foreign based code it's really it's organized by building form rather than us so traditional zoning is really focused on us and. The way that it focuses on building form is that it has very prescriptive design regulations in terms of what's required and i'll explain a bit more about that again the intent is to provide that more predictable environment. and focus on, you know who is interacting with those buildings from the streets So how do you build that higher quality public realm and between buildings.

[30:04] So, in a little bit of history of where phone form based code so it's this isn't the first place that's been applied. There is there was back in 2015 If you recall pretty significant Community conversation around design lot of concern with the quality of the architecture of the materials of the buildings going in and all across boulder. And so, an initiative was taken on by city council was called design excellence and we brought in an outside consultant Victor Dover, to help us sort of understand you know what is what is it specifically that people are not liking about the buildings that are getting built in boulder. and part of the one of his recommendations was that the city should explore form based code and he was very clear for me as codes are not appropriate everywhere. It for base code works really well where there's a very fairly developed.

[31:04] area plan there's all the big decisions about how all those things have already been decided, but it helps you ensure that a lot of that intense actually gets implemented. And so what we've learned. from some of the developers in the picture is this is 37 figure that out it's going to look very different once the landscaping goes in. But it gives you a sense, these are the very few buildings that are actually been built on a scale, just to be clear places like the red or sequel a lot of the big projects and Campbell the junction were entitled prior to the development of the form is. So what we learned from 30 parole in in this, this was boulder housing partners specifically was that these prescriptive design requirements actually increased a lot of the upfront costs.

[32:03] And, but from the developer perspective in the architect's perspective that was worth it, because it provided more certainty and it helped reduce the overall risk of a project. And it and I think arguably the best reason is provides the Community with a more predictable outcome. And with that focus on a high quality public rental market I mentioned. And the way that we do that is that, through the form based code we're able to require human scale buildings. Certain design elements that help ensure higher quality materials are used that there's a higher quality aesthetic. It allows us to specify housing types more than you can with traditional learning as well, so like on that Eastern parcel where he said town homes are for desired. We can say a minimum number of towels are required, and it will be 12 in the proposal, it also helps with active and outdoor recreation in those outdoor spaces and, interestingly enough, the biggest lesson learned was where we identify.

[33:12] Where we can access buildings for trash services so that was a big challenge, we had a lot of we wanted every side of the building in boulder junction be beautiful and perfect and. We didn't really factor in the fact that we need service vehicles staff to access the buildings to sort of that ugly side. So let's talk about foreign base coat so we're going to start with the streets, the past the greenway is an outdoor space, as you can see there's that new 11 street connection that's north, south through the site. There is a new public street that wraps around those private parcels that provides access to. A year. And it also includes an enhanced the seo that's specific to help also.

[34:01] As well as additional multi use paths in the green way and north, south through the site, it also identifies the outdoor space so slightly different elements. That really emphasizes the connection between the enhanced per sale and greenway and also identifies the greenway. So those outdoor spaces as. Okay. yeah last question. Please, with the question here um I along the. boy you're just talking about with. New you know greenway and pathways what discussion has occurred, if any, around the crossing of broadway.

[35:04] And the impacts for for crossing a broadway has there been any discussion of an improved crossing there. Yes, there absolutely has. Absolutely. um but it. hasn't been the focus of the. broker this. Is everybody muted. And then maybe Jean King library gene. I just muted shock, I think that that's where we're getting the feedback so jack you'll just have to unmute each time he speak. I think it is too sorry. Does that answer your question jack.

[36:03] know. yourself. yeah. My connection is so bad I lost half of what she said, unfortunately. i'll say it again i'm gonna mute you. So yes, as part of the Alpine balsam plan, there were discussions about a better crossing at broadway I think they're even discussions about an overpass or an underpass. So those that that level of detail, we haven't gotten to so that would be part of the implementation phase, but the four basic Code and the rezoning the sort of the first step, so there are a lot of more details that need to happen all the design of the streets understanding. All the design parameters of the buildings so yeah there's still a lot more to do we're just trying to create the regulatory structure so that is done well.

[37:03] yeah might also add that there are recommendations in the connections plan, and then the access and mobility section to improve those. improve the pedestrian experience for the crossings at broadway the Multi use path. One of the key recommendations that I think was a specific from planning board and counsel is to extend the Multi use path to the degree possible on on to the at balsam to connect that through and definitely improve the experience of crossing Alpine. So going almost been close. So. There is a outdoor. Public Plaza that we just discussed there is a specific enhanced seo for Alpine balsam that's different than boulder junction it's it's a bit wider is that there was really an emphasis in the area plan for.

[38:07] That this east, west spine through the middle was really supposed to be the heart of the of the Community. And it also has a 20 foot wide fire access easement just to make sure, because there aren't any won't have access along ball balsam for fire trucks. Alright buildings, so, as you can see the regulating plan for the forum based code identifies building types, there are three different building types there's a general building there's the building. As well as the. Buildings so there's also required storefront treatments so you'll see that there are a in type different ages so type as opposed to be public face. Very pretty tight be is where you can have things like trash services, but there are also additional regulations that take into consideration location clauses sales.

[39:10] In terms of what you can and can't do in terms of entrances and also identifies maximum building height, so you can see each person or each section has its own limit on stories. And then it's also important to keep in mind that the base owning that determines the uses the area plan the form based code then focuses on form and not use, so the the uses are still dictated by the zoning. So keep trying to keep in mind city, will be the Co master developer for the entire site. So when we say developer responsibilities for the vast majority of this, the city will be partially responsible and that and that will have an in terms of the overall.

[40:05] design or entitlement process so in terms of what's allowed to be built the design of the buildings, as well as the infrastructure that will all be part of the through city control. But there are some things that are the developer, responsibility and what we heard clearly from the Community was super importance of this permeability into the site so right now familiar with it so it's just one big block mostly parking lot. wanting to have those connections through the site. and focus on durable materials things that are going to fall apart and 10 or 15 years. Older still has a strong preference for more traditional design as well, very high quality, open space places where you know people will want to linger so there's lots of things in the form based code. That, I think you know if you're an architecture buff that you can get excited about things about the golden rule.

[41:05] articulation between different stories all these requirements, the basically ensure that we have visually pleasing brill building that's human scale and those spaces in between are very carefully thought for. A quick check and. i'm still seeing slide 33 they outdoor space on path is everybody else seeing other slides. i'm 35. Let me stop and reshare.

[42:12] and getting class promise. Was not showing it. There we go. There we go. that's better yeah. you're seeing your next slide part and the notes, though, too, so. we're. should be sharing my second screen.

[43:05] perfect. done promise. So there are a couple things. Remember we're implementing the area plan. So, really, this was a fairly straightforward exercise in terms of there wasn't a lot of staff discretion about what we would how to design the code. The line really created that blueprint for us if there are two things that we identified that are are changes and one is sort of Is this what we're calling a kink in 11th street. And that's this little section here as it comes into Alpine avenue, and this was the city architect actually identified this as a potential.

[44:08] for creating some really unique space in there, so right now 11 street is pretty close to the existing pavilion building if we're able to sort of jog the streets, create a little bit more visual interest on 11. Who could create some nice synergies with the Plaza just north, it can also help, we could have some of the mobility elements located there as well, that would be closer to the pavilion building. So that's just a minor change there's flexibility in the form based code, as well as the connections plan in terms of locating you can notice, these are just general locations on the map. So bit further engineering would have to be done to figure out, you know what is that What impact does that curve have on access and loading and 11th. And does it create any left turn conflicts so again Another detail for the future, but we wanted to leave the door open.

[45:07] For that potential change, and then the second is this sort of modification to the connections you saw in the motion language that was specific to this section so you'll see there's that dark green line and the light green dotted line. The dark Green is a new street light green dotted line is a pedestrian connection so it's a bit redundant require both but not exactly sure how you accomplish both of those. So what we're proposing is that, just to be super clear that the pedestrian connection would still exist, but it will be designed through the normal. streets that are required, through the. dsc but part of the reason for locating open space in here was to really try to entice people to go or meandering through the through the site.

[46:02] To move north to the greenway and join the greenway and experience the greenway and then also the added benefit is the connection across nine would be more significant. Because we have a multi use path there you can still your slogan that pedestrian access entire way east, west, but really just trying to focus more of that activity energy through the greenway. So that's the other connections plan modification any questions about this before I talked about kind of the next steps. Yes, good okay. And then. Before we go to City Council next week is planning board and September 2. So City Council first readings 21st of September. public hearing would occur on October 5 assuming the approved everything it would be effective 30 days later.

[47:02] i'm here is the motion language for easy reference and then we'll open it up for questions. question first or public comment Jay. Questions from you and then we'll move to public comment okay. This guy got a few questions well at someone else. Like you hear me. Michael. We can hear. You know. I was actually born in that hospital so that's how long I go back to that site. And I have to say that what this process has I think render a really, really good master plan. I really like so many things about it, the connectivity the presale the plazas the more density on broadway scaling it down as we move towards the park on the West i'm all that's really great really great on.

[48:14] I think if. A couple questions Jay how real is the potential county component there and how real is the city consolidating all of there. are a lot of their services to that location and then the last thing is more of a micro issue is leaving the parking structure, there is great. But is that parking intended to service the residential more to the West as well, or are the townhomes or stack flats going to have it all just kind of three questions. yeah all right, let me see if I can. So the county offices, not that is not on. So there was a working group of county and city staff who determine that the park demands would be so great.

[49:04] For that county silty that it made more sense for them to relocate elsewhere, so no the county will not be there, that that that pattern will be focused on future housing. Consolidation I would say yes there's definitely the city is moving in that direction and likely that will happen. I don't think there's anything holding it back I think there's just a quick, you know the pandemic, if anything, told us that. We can make less office space. So we'd like to. Have city office space in anticipation of that and we're in the process of potentially decommissioning buildings, as well, so that's the first to the the parking structure yeah you're correct so parking demand for parcels the high density housing.

[50:00] In the central blocks and the north Eastern Bloc those yes will be served by parking structure the homes, the Western corner. That will be self parked, but there is a potential, if there is available parking you know if there was a second vehicle they might be able to get access assuming you know because there, it would be part of a larger parking district. questions. Absolutely, and I just can't stress enough how much I like what's happening there, I think it's great. You know anytime we can get more housing, especially a lot location or trading out at old hospital that's just an eyesore. it's just really good I love the connectivity I love the sales applause I think it's gonna be great i'm assuming that mixed use, building on the Northeast corner. is going straight from retail or office, which is what I think should be on broadway and in balsam there. And then, just as much housing, as we can put going West I think it's great it's it's a really well done hope we can we can do it now and in closing.

[51:07] i'm hoping that, if we consolidate the city buildings, the city services here the Old City service buildings wherever they're spread out can be repurposed into housing, that would be. My two cents wherever it's possible and not just rented out as additional commercial space, because I think we need housing more than we need more space. There was there was a very driven very That is exactly what we're discussing. Excellent. Great other questions from our board. I did. grow Danny okay. Ah, so I just want to say, first, I mean I love the. form based code I think it's it's a creative it's very pragmatic and and just going, you know going through the whole dynamic of it, I think it really works, but I just.

[52:09] My question is how the form based code will kind of align with whatever kind of use contemplation because I think you probably need to have something to and i'm sure you do, I just want to make sure I understand that properly and then the other questions that I have just regarding. I guess regarding parking and traffic flow because I remember us talking quite a bit about that Jay back in. 2019 I guess when we first started wrestling with this, but uh the other questions in that regard we're just. A so there's that whole concept, you mentioned the city sharing parking with the residents and just kind of how that plays out, and I know that we had talked about. utilization of parking spaces like your cross the street, on the other side of broadway over there and it'll park is one of those things where.

[53:00] We really try to encourage alternative transportation and stuff but how does that play out now with now that organic clearer picture. form based on related stuff so those might that's basically you know and then transit just because of how everything affects broadway yeah let's looking for parking spaces access for residences etc. yeah that's great um yeah just have to make sure it's still muted. yeah we did do we have to do is owning analysis to figure out what the appropriate underlying zoning would be open ended on our eight seven so for the housing sites that provides sufficient flexibility in terms of uses the. Mixed use the where the potential. The North Eastern. parcel that would. The mixed use business gives us that flexibility for older adults, but it also would allow for potential senior housing.

[54:06] as well. In terms of the shared parking yeah you know, I think, if anything, you know, since the pandemic and since the area plan was adopted, I think there's a realization that. That that we can those spaces in that parking garage can provide an even broader use because it's likely that the usage during the day by city employees will be less than what we anticipated but it's going to be difficult to know for sure until. sort of pandemic plays out and sort of things settle down in terms of how people work, and I think it's going to impact, you know people living there, in terms of are they going to work every day, are they working from home. What are their parking needs as well, so I think that's why it's going to be really important to this fall start really exploring that the parking district concept more fully and understanding that better.

[55:07] Does that does that answer all your questions. you're muted. Right. The only other question I had was just regarding like the impacts on you know broadway such a vital. Challenges corridor right so has there been a lot of contemplation as to how. This is going to impact broadway because I know that's what a lot of the critiques going to be as you move forward on so i'm just curious I mean you know it is what it is, but you know, certainly be challenged as based on the location. yeah I mean I think it's the same answer to jocks question about you know the crossings and. I know there were there was a lot of discussion, the area and the connections plan does specify specific things I can't. I wasn't involved in those conversations i'm probably not the best person to speak to it.

[56:03] So I can I would definitely encourage you to read through the connections Pam. Great anything else from you Danny jack had his hand raised as well. yeah I. hold on, let me put my hand down real quick. I couldn't figure this out there, the. quiet. unstable Internet connection is what my computer says me. The questions I had pretty much answered in nj. I just wanted to, and they also crossings it wrong way and ninth street and covered that I was curious about what's going to happen to other buildings. That the city would be abandoning and those locations, I know many of them are flood impacted spaces, so I was curious about the housing ability, you know there to put housing and what if that's been looked at, or how that.

[57:14] might play out with getting houses housing in those areas where the city's backing out. And if you have any more info on that that'd be interesting to hear. And I guess the other question was which you also touched on, so you know, maybe we don't go back and do it is just what the process is we cove it, as you just said, like is that has that had. expectation of decreasing the amount of city needed space there or is that number still holding firm and I think you said it was holding firm, I just wanted to kind of confirm that. and other than that, I just want to say i'm kind of aligned with everybody else I like how this is coming out.

[58:02] Overall, I think it's good as Kerry said as much, housing, as we can get. I don't know form based code allows for this a little bit tongue in cheek but you know the old hospital, I had a nice curve to that Northwest corner and if you're going to do, human scale stuff humans aren't rectal in here so i'd love to see. In the pathways and whatever I like the cake just for that reason, two thumbs up on the cake. But overall yeah it's great it looks good to me. Again, just get the housing in there. that's a great comment about the rectum linear. thing about buildings um so so you asked about the central Florida issues for other city owned buildings, you probably thinking of like park central and others down by boulder creek so yeah I mean it. In even as well, West so that's not the entire properties in the in the high hazard zone, so there, there are potential options for redevelopment with housing.

[59:11] But yeah again it's just more analysis more detail that we have to get to. city parking city staff, I think what I was trying to say is we still don't really know. Until the pandemic plays I mean it right now there's there's very little transit so part of the challenge is that I can't take a bus to work anymore until that gets restored. I don't think we're going to know what the demand is going to be so yeah I agree it's going to be a challenge but, but I think what we have shown as a city is that. We can work effectively from home, maybe ideally it's not to be all the time i'm sure you all experienced this in your own professional lives, but certain things you know do lend themselves to telework and remote work so.

[60:08] yeah thanks. That answer your questions chuck. Great Thank you john. The pita. Has her hand up and i'm sorry I got distracted by the sound problems and didn't mention you doing real call defeated but we're glad to have you here so fire away with your questions. yeah Thank you, thank you, Michael i'm. So following up on on the previous comments i'm actually have a question when we first so this project and the planning board. We talked about kind of like the stratification of building kind of to fit where the new housing was going to be facing you know when I, for example, facing broadway being more amenable to maybe building were more you know, like three four.

[61:12] floors versus going towards where the single family housing was so that it will be a transition. So they will fit better so that I still remember that discussion, because we have members of the community there who were making. You know their comments, as you know, we get a lot of people will know, we have the projects like this one, so this is one of those projects where we had a lot of comes from the Community, and then. I asked you have moved on with this project, one question is is that kind of transitioning to that it fits better with a present housing stock that we have in the area is that being conserved that's one question is that happening, and the other one is which part of the base code.

[62:00] code that you're using was informed by the Community. Because I know that question is going to come up later, at least when it comes to board, and I would like to be prepared, and I will love to help. The city be prepared to point out to the places where the input from the Community has been actively you know used to move forward with this important project. Does this make sense. Yes, it makes perfect sense Thank you so um yeah so your first question about the sort of the transitioning of the heights from broadway and Alpine from those four and potentially five storey buildings down to three. towards the park and the single families to the north. yeah absolutely that that is captured in the form based code directly from the Alpine balsam area. Does that make sense.

[63:00] Yes, so that is regarding to that how about. Other instances. So everything the. point that I was really trying to make is that everything in the forum based code comes directly from the area plan so there's almost nothing that. is proposed in the form based code that wasn't discussed as part of the area planning process so everything that we heard from the Community, and I tried to point those out during the presentation. So the diversity of the building types the permeability of the site all the pedestrian connections, or the clauses in public space. The quality of materials, so I mean the list goes on and on, in terms of what we heard through the area planning process and then also was reaffirmed with what we heard as we were developing the form base camp right so.

[64:01] We heard a lot from a lot of people at the open house and March, a lot of people, the hundred and 90 people at the that participated in the poll on be her boulder. And you know a lot of people were excited they were supportive of the direction they felt that it did stayed true to the area plan. We did hear a lot of concerns that I mean there's still people in the Community who are concerned about the heights of the buildings. The type of housing that's going to go in, and so I don't think there's going to be necessarily complete. Everything and I don't think everyone is going to be entirely happy, but I think what we have to recognize is that we've done our best to try to implement the area plan that was. Basically embraced by a planning board and City Council back in 2019 and if we haven't done that we that's what we want to hear we'd like to know where are we missed the mark.

[65:08] Does that does that help. Yes, thank you, I. This is really, really good it makes me feel much better, because I know we will have some of those people still come back. To the planning board and, as you know, the city comes to present this you know just prepare. To point out spaces and, in particular, he has specific examples of some of the deliberate decisions that were made, based on very specific recommendations that came from the Community, I will really appreciate it will help everyone. To go through that process more smoothly. Thank you, yes, I will definitely work on that Dean, and I will tackle that. Thank you, Peter, I have a question J i'll give them to you one, at a time. Jane i'll start by saying my son was born at boulder Community hospital.

[66:01] Fine memory, every time I walk by balsam and broadway of that time 26 years ago. Also for 28 years i've lived two blocks north of the hospital and spent that entire time wishing I could walk straight through and 11th street to downtown So if you just did that part of the project, I would be very happy with my city. I would concur with the comments about the quality of the plan and the inclusion of a good what looks like a good mix of housing and I definitely favor getting as much housing on the site is practical and will create a good result from the overall project so first question is. And I don't know if anybody can answer this, but you mentioned the expensive for base code related to 30 Pearl is there been any analysis of I know that was good for the developer and it's good for the quality of the project, but.

[67:00] What effect did that have on the production of housing, they reduce the amount of affordable housing, it can be provided on that site. and No, I mean I actually I asked that question specifically and I think the response that I got was. Yes, well, and we did have to spend more money preparing materials and submitting materials, but we say roughly equal amount of time because we had to go through fewer steps or less reduce of. Plans and drawings based on feedback from. The planning board a city council or staff, so it was kind of a wash. But I think there was definitely the lesson was it's worth it, I mean it might be extra work might even be a little bit of extra time it's not really extra cost but. It just it gets better better results.

[68:00] So you're referring to the cost more and by the city, not by the developer builders who produce a housing. Well it's almost one in the same. You know, every dollar that we spend on developing review or a developer affordable housing, we pay for that in some way or another, but that's just it's a boulder has very high design expectations are very high standards. And we're that's the environment we're in we're going to pay for. Okay, and just to rephrase my question is what is possible to do we gain less housing out of it because of all these hoops were jumping through which is great, I mean they make for a better project, but are we getting less housing either. yeah yeah I mean it's hard to quantify them it's like well, what do you want to compare it to.

[69:00] What standards do you want to compare it to. Maybe we'll probably have to look at Mel. And then we'd have to look at another housing project, I suppose, but thank you for that answer, and then you mentioned the city. will be the Co developer, and I understand some benefits for that, but i'm wondering, is there, another possible scenario of say just selling the site to master developer, we do all the work with lots of requirements and restrictions for all these goodies and amenities that you just described. yeah I mean it hasn't been fully decided. Exactly how. The city will dispose of the side or, but I think we an initial discussions is that you know we've. We have a really good project with 30 Pearl and a pretty good model where the city retains control, I mean that's the advantage of being a master developer, we can retain control over the projects little bit more.

[70:09] We have when we we can develop the property so when we sell if we do sell one or two the parcels we can sell them fully entitled and with infrastructure and we can get a much higher value. For those parcels so it's kind of you know we we can pay a developer to do that, but we're going to be paying a developer fee when we're going to be paying their expenses. So I think there's definitely efficiencies and potential cost savings for us to retain ownership, as long as we can, and also control so that we do get the outcomes like we want, I mean you're right the form based code is designed to ensure that we retain those. But it's hard to know what what issues are going to come up. Interesting this is for my comment, we did a my organization did a tour of downtime Westminster last week and that's a C control development.

[71:08] to redevelop a dying dead shopping mall and I gotta say they're doing a good job it's got nice public spaces good architecture, a lot of variety. And some different kettle of fish from help I balsam because hundred acres, but it certainly shows it can be done to a very high level of quality and here's a question for the pediatric. I wonder if you could summarize some of the internal discussions that planning board has had about Alpine balsam particularly relation to type of housing. mix of housing. density of housing how each so forth, and just kind of give us a sense of where you might be coming from. Well, has been Thank you. it's been a. You know, like a mixture of discussions and they come up from. The various programs I know bottom.

[72:03] up and bustle came up just recently in one of our meetings, even though we were not officially covering but it wasn't relation to you know, like. couple improvements, for example, and so a one on one aspect of the discussion, they came up very clear was that. that some people in the planning Board was concerned about the input from the Community that's my comments to Jay today I want to make sure that that part is well covered. Because they will get questions and sometimes you know the the the public are there and we want to make sure a while, at least I like to make sure that the city comes across as you know, we are listening. And they're already integrating this so just maybe being a little bit more proactive in public will be very helpful. With regards to the housing type, for example, we have discussions regarding that they need to meet the missing middle.

[73:02] And you know, I was just reviewing the documents that you guys provided for today's meeting in particular that report on the missing middle. And they're very specific simple recommendations, you had to do with attach you know attach housing. To meet some of those needs, because they're just becoming increasingly more difficult for people to afford housing here. On if we were to kind of keep in mind some of this. You know, specific but very salient points that come re currently in our meetings, you know how much input, did you gain from the Community, you know if it's something that involves floods, for example. Those are topics that you know you're going to get lots of questions because the city, are concerned about those we have had experience with slots so anything that involves flooding. You will get you know people interested in so it's good to be prepared to have good answers and in a substantive way give the Community and the planning board, I mean i'm just putting my.

[74:04] plan will happen right now the confidence that these thoughts or these decisions have been well thought out, it just takes a little bit more dedication and explicit statement that's why I wanted, maybe like. Remind Jay was coming so that you know you guys have prepare because we are going to be asking those questions and so those are the kind of things, and what I mentioned earlier about balsa up. Alpine balsam was specifically based on the discussion we had I don't know a year, and something to go. do some of these questions that you guys are asking, right now, I believe I think Terry asked regarding you know whether there was going to be. Not city by county offices, we ask those questions, too, I mean we are asking the right questions and I think slowly things are becoming clear.

[75:01] So maybe repeating the messaging is important, but we regard to the housing, I think, just connecting. Their presentation also reminding people where we found the highest needs are and how those needs are being met. With this designed, I think that will be very helpful and calm and comforting to the Community as well as even though we're not going to make everybody happy as Jay. Very you know correctly pointed out that we are listening to people in where things make sense that that input from the Community is being applied in a in a substantive and thoughtful manner that's That would be my kind of response to that because those are the key elements, I think. Okay, well, thank you, Peter. there's anyone else have. Questions about the presentation and what's going on with Alpine bossy.

[76:02] Great. well. Still, a bit knew this but I. would like to like to entertain. A recommendation to counsel. Michael just to be safe, just ask if there's anyone from the public that would like. To say i'm sorry I thought we had done that, before maybe we turn on the agenda, please anyone from the public, who would like to comment on this discussion here is your opportunity. yeah it's just Dan and unless he speaks up in the next 10 seconds. Okay, I just did and. yeah, so I would, I would like us to take an action and make a recommendation on this is just an appropriate time to be doing that. Can I suggest some wording. I propose that have make a strong recommendation to city council and adoption of the form blaze for based code, especially as it pertains to.

[77:08] A robust housing element that we think will add to having diversity and a key site in our city. Do you want to do that in addition to the motion language that I provided you in the moment. You provided me with motion language in the memo to do. This. presentation to. A lot of stuff going on on my screen. that's fine we try to make it as easy as possible for you guys. yeah yeah. wow. you're welcome to embellish on that. yeah I think I just did that in the packet. I can also pull up the PowerPoint again. yeah yeah if you can pull it up apologize.

[78:03] I think it was a great motion. Here we go. that the whole thing three parts. yeah. This looks pretty darn good demeaning comments. yeah ah, so I just you know based off what Michael was saying to add like a. You know, like a number four or something saying that we strongly support. The steps taken today. To. develop this plan and focus on. version of housing, through this plan, and you know we. are encouraged the board to move forward.

[79:01] accordingly. yeah yeah I think something like Ben and I just put forward and be a wonderful preamble to the technical language, and you know, we want to. jump in with both feet and if we get the vote and say we're really for this and yeah it's a great opportunity to produce housing and a key site. i'm going to jump in real quick and. Just you know see what you guys think about there's a piece of me in response to the Peters concerns about the public process that's been involved in this, and just as someone who was kind of has been on have while this has all been rolling out over the years. Does it make sense to kind of. Make note in this motion, almost as a PR piece as as new pita saying.

[80:06] That this is derived directly from the. From the area plan that was already been you know through many laborious public comment and response pieces is that what do you think I mean does that make sense to add something of that sort, just a brief fate rephrase in there. You know, just as based upon the. Alpine troublesome area plan. yeah. Right, I think it makes sense. Because I do, I do think that we have that. You know, in the. You know, in the Community and just with the amount of time that passes between these things moving through the process it's kind of hard to track that so many of these discussions have been engaged with and we made some of those decisions and now we're just trying to implement.

[81:15] So I What if we said, if we if we had a number five Jacques that said. We we find the. We find the proposal to be. strongly consistent with the. Alpine balsam area plan, which was developed through extensive public process and encourage continued public process. As as the. project continues don't like that, because I think that wraps in the notion that you know we've been down this road, a lot, because I think yeah I do think that's an important part of this too. And, and you know public process and everything is obviously, for the past couple of years now, has been pretty challenging right.

[82:04] Just because of the forums, etc, so I think having something like that, and just noting that you know this well proceeds. cove it anything it's it's kind of the continuation of the vision that's been well thought out was really helpful in terms of you know what we're trying to say about this. um i'll also note that this really gets to an existential question about the planning process and it came up it's fine burden, for example, you know. Public input is important, what the neighbors think is important but there's also the issue of what's good for the whole city. What is what is boulder need, what are the overall housing needs and has to be i'm not suggesting this for language and the resolution here, but it has to be acknowledgement that. You know, sometimes there's a greater greater goal, and if. You know there's one more car in your street or whatever the number might be that's.

[83:05] That could be an effect but we're proving the Community overall. By moving forward certain certain projects that meet other standards. that's really kind of a speech but. that's where i'm coming from. You guys seen when i've written i'm trying to capture what you're saying, but please. Tell me if it's correct or not. you're talking about the language of the recommended motions yeah yeah, we have to do number three so that needs to be corrected. yeah I don't know how to do that. that's fine. i'll fix it and then. I think what we're saying is kind of implied in the language is there already I don't know that we're adding a lot of substantive material they just kind of feel good language and that's good if we feel good about it, but I don't know that it's really adding to the the value of anything. Well i'm a.

[84:01] strong believer in. Call to Action, even if it is you know just a little window dressing, to make it clear that you know we really support this. You know, aside from the technical support we think it's the right thing to do. Oh it's very much the right thing to do, what's hundred percent. yeah so. i'm a big believer in not being ambiguous and. You know, saying it loud. yeah I do think. Danny especially. In this in these types of projects, and I think it goes back to what what Michael was saying. about the planning process and the Community. Engagement process that goes along with that that we it's important that we do those things. Often.

[85:03] And I think it's important because. We can get. The same repetitive. Discussions over and over and over again, and at some point, I think we really need to say we've been through this we. Have these discussions we're basing this new process on that so that as Peter says people understand that has happened, so I think there's about I think for you and I, we we know what's going on and. get it, but I think that for for kind of that prp. And then. It changes to whenever. it's good read. Can you guys see that or is that too small. I can tell you. guys if you know I know that you are thinking, the mentioning of the Community engagement being something of a PR thing, but I think that you don't even have to add something extra but it kind of like just insert something like in the first and the first motion where you say.

[86:19] You know, recommend that option or the ordinance creating a form based code for that purpose, on metro metro area, I will say something like creating a. Community informed or a form based code informed by Community. or something like that, and then just continue from there, just as that as that as an additional little note. that the code that you are coming from has the input of the Community that's all you don't need to go into additional statements, because. We just want to I this, this is my perception on this, we need to remind the Community that they're, not just on the receiving end.

[87:06] And I see this as like teaching moments that the process are very complex and long and people forget that there are these pieces in there, including the planning board we went to this thing just recently. trying to find out how much of the input from the Community was part of the discussion we were having so something like this, even you know, two, three words in There probably will just convey that piece. Yes. Does that make sense, yes. Alright, have a little suggested word smithing and we can all chime in. And the second number three I would say a great opportunity to provide needed a needed mix of housing, including affordable housing. Because we all know, it's not all going to be affordable nothing. And to repeat is Point number four consistent with the Alpine balsam area plan and.

[88:10] For bass code developed through through extensive Community outreach and input. well. I guess I. find that the. Best code follows the area plan and it's really the area plan that had all the Community engagement, where all those big decisions were made. So I just want. to throw a PC in the same bucket. yeah no I what I was saying this is even in the actual and the actual motion one. When you say, creating a for the very last sentence, creating a form based code for the out pine boughs some area, they say, for example, they're creating a form based code informed by Community engagement for the Alpine balsam area.

[89:03] In my mind, because it just reminds people that this wasn't a informed based code that was created or produced by the city on their own that he was by process informed by the Community does that make sense Jay. yeah I typed it in. yeah makes sense to me i'm okay with it. And I think that way you don't have to worry about the additional ones at the bottom, at least not on regarding Community engagement that was the only thing is, if you make it inherent. Part of the actual motion, I think that, hopefully, will give the Community more confidence that they are being listened to that that was the kind of the message I was trying to get across. that's good very important point. Michael so, and this is again, you know we're we're always in this word smithing. process that happens, and even more difficult online, I think that we're we're all sitting together, but in my mind.

[90:06] I think, Michael your suggestion that these two points that we're trying to make and that Jay has presented in three and four. Although my initial concept was just to do something as Peter just put forth there and in number one it's almost I feel like it'd be great to put those as a preamble. it's basically our statement as to why we value these three motions that we're going to provide so it's essentially a preamble to the motion, and that would that just be my suggestion I mean go either way but it might tighten it up a little bit from having a four to five. yeah and since it was my idea I agree with you. And I agree, I mean I think it's kind of like. findings and then conclusions right, so it works well, that way too, so I mean.

[91:01] i'm. over the executive summary whenever you want to call it. I keep I keep both points in, though, even if even you know we could err on the side of redundancy I don't think it's I don't think it's really that much of a concern here because. I think like Michael was saying we want to really emphasize our feelings on this, so I mean I think all these edits that we put together, so I love having that day i'm watching you do this as we talk. A lot of that preamble and then I like to change to one, and I think I think we're good to go. Excellent um let's see everybody's waiting and Terry anything else to add. No it's great. Great i'd like to ask for emotion, to adopt. So most. Okay, we got a second let's just but let's let the word smithing conclude. take one more look.

[92:01] Is, we need to say you know have I guess that's implicit. first word. grammar is correct. Can you do a spell check. i'm not gonna put my readers on so I trusted Jay. Okay okay. Do we have a all in favor of this motion raise your hand, please say Aye. Aye Aye. Aye.

[93:00] Okay, right here for. Yes, go great. Motion passes for zero. Maybe we move to the next agenda item. got. Go. Okay. we're up to matters from the board and we're gonna be hearing about the middle income housing strategy. reviewing it. So this is a much shorter presentation. I promise.

[94:00] You see that. And everyone see my introductory slide. You see you. No. No. No. Here we go. You seeing my entire. screen or just the presentation. Whole screen. Each one yeah title. Here we are middle income housing strategy, so of course have identified this as a potential work plan item, so we thought it would be helpful to provide a little bit of context in terms of. What has been doing. Is everybody.

[95:02] Thank you. So we just wanted to provide a little bit of history, a little bit of an update, we can talk about some of the highlights from the. study, as well as the strategy talking about the goal and how its evolved over time it's going to spend a bit of time talking about the different tools that we have, so the past, present future. But really wanted to have most of the conversation focus on some discussion and potential next steps. So there are some things about the tools to, I just wanted to highlight for you guys to be looking for is that. There are a lot of city projects that have been initiated over the past six seven years that are her were intended to address middle income, and it may not be that obvious and you'll hear about those pretty soon. Right So who is the middle.

[96:00] middle income market we're talking about 80 to 150% of area median income. That you all know that changes year to year, based on. Mostly, the consumer price index, but other factors it's determined by hud housing urban development there, it depends on the size of the household so it's. scaled So you can see 80% for a single person household is that $65,000 a year number and 150% is 122 so when we. have been talking about middle income we're talking about accountants architects Librarians you know we're not talking about retail workers, these are people mostly professionals who surprisingly have a hard time living in boulder so any questions about who were who were talking about. Right let's keep going, so why is this an issue.

[97:04] Back in 2015 we looked at part of the study was to determine what is the trend and we found that the trend is definitely been downward for those middling so it's the low to moderate, I mean boulder is actually done remarkably well holding steady. has to do a lot to do with our efforts to provide low and moderate income households. But though we're losing the middle and middle is getting replaced by religious upper income household so hundred and 50% and above. It will be really interesting to be able to update this based on the 2020 sentence. And so Ideally, we would be able to do that sometime in the next year um one thing that's kind of interesting as I recall from this work, too, is that. You would think that would there be decline in. Families or households with children, but it actually that remained pretty steady and bolder over this same time period so just a little bit of trivia.

[98:12] So this is. Remember, this is when we did the market analysis I don't think a whole lot has changed since then. I would say that the city Rentals are still affordable to this middle income household maybe not 99% but i'd say see. But that's really important to remember it's the rental stock in boulder is still relatively affordable to income households. it's when those households want us are starting to look to purchase a home that they run into difficulty, as you can see detached homes, very few of those were in the price range back in 2015 I would say very even fewer today for sure attached homes are definitely more attainable.

[99:01] But I would say that number is also declined just in the past six years as well. Any questions about that sort of. Right. Because I know this is a concern of one of our board members it's interesting to hear the household when children are stable. is already. affecting school and rolling. Well, I think, school enrollment my understanding is it's. Still declining. But it's been a little bit more steady. But, to be honest, I haven't looked at it in quite some time and then of course the pandemic through everything. into. turmoil in terms of enrollment so now I don't have a great answer for you, but that's something we could certainly explore. I good contacts at the school district.

[100:01] And we could look at their enrollment numbers over over the last 10 years yeah veterans or. I don't know if you're referring to me, Michael, but that is one of my areas of concern in that and i'm curious with the increasing higher income. If that's translating into maintaining student populations in the public schools or if those students are going to other schools outside of the public school, so I you know just to. yeah. Julia mentioned it, but I met her and she's not here, so I wanted to give that some voice, but i'm sure it's something that all of our minds. And yeah the demographic is also a factor, there were saying that because of private schools. So we can dig into that more yeah. If I may mass one thing is one question I would ask is not the number is steady, but I would like to know what the number is what percentage of families in boulder are you know family with children and K through 12.

[101:07] You know, education. level. yeah I don't have the most recent numbers repeated, but as I said, we could we could dig into that we can. Look at the 2020 census numbers, I think that would be helpful, but we don't I think it'd be even better to talk directly with the school district. yeah I mean, these will be great because, and this is independent of the pandemic is, I know we're just that's this that can't get the system now, but in terms of. A more historical evaluation is it always been 30% 50% of the households have children in schools or not, because if that is what you guys are kind of. pointing out to that it's likely that as we lose some of the affordable housing or more people have to move into the higher. income levels chances are that are people who have advanced in their careers already you know, have done.

[102:05] With their children racing so they will know be contributing to education, you know, like population and the schools. I don't always too much speculation so just kind of get a sense of that will be helpful because it, that is, that that will reflect on the vitality of our city. Because if we can have you know continuously increasing income people but they're all getting older people, and we have no young people eventually even the older people will disappear so. Just in the sense of you know what are we doing to provide for the longevity of our city vitality of our city, and that is providing for younger people that's it. If you. Great points and I would love to have a future session, where we talk about. Student populate. The population of kids that's affecting.

[103:00] enrollment in schools, and it also look at that, from the workforce perspective of people who teach in the public schools and it see you. yeah yeah I think that'd be great. And I can. After the meeting I can try, I do have. Some 2020 census numbers that tells me exactly how the percentage of people under the age of 17 in boulder in 2022 2010. So i'll share that with the group, just so you know, but I do not have the enrollment pieces, because I think that's definitely been skewed by the pandemic significantly so but yeah let's dig into that later. Should I keep going. Can you guys hear me. Yes. Go ahead keep going. Definitely.

[104:00] I think I talked about that, so there was a middle income working group that was composed of two planning board members to city council members. This was back in 2015 they were tasked with modifying the current goal, they wanted to define. Various Community benefit policies and tools to help preserve and create middle income housing so basically what, how can we address this issue. But they're also told to identify funding options and I underline that, because that never happened, so there were. The strategy never identified additional funding for this so that's been one of our challenges and i'll talk about that more. So they completed their work in 2016 and Center recommendation to counsel short of it is. There was a goal that 3500 middle income homes, we wanted to build or preserve them by 2030 interesting thing 2500 of those market rate.

[105:02] And 1000 would be deed restricted affordable and if hopefully you guys remember this, so that goal has been modified so when we updated the COMP plan in 2017 2018 sorry. We combined we added a middle income goal, so it was. We included in our 15% goal that it's low moderate and middle income and that we would achieve 15% by 2035 but that 1000 units of deed restricted still this sort of remains as as the policy. So the tools that we identified, there were a lot of different efforts that really focused around land use an F and policy. This is really the big nut to crack and and you know this is where I think we need the most help it's been challenging is identify what those tools are we can talk about what other cities have done.

[106:05] But this is really been. Like I said, the biggest challenge, I think, but we have made some progress, so the middle income Community benefits zoning so we, as a as a recall that Community benefit was adopted and actually starting pretty soon the Community benefit for additional. height or. use or intensity for buildings that will require additional affordable housing components that is going to be applied citywide so appendix J is going to go and i'll be applied citywide so there's more potential coming from that that tool. And in 2018 we also updated the inclusion area housing regulations, so there is no middle income tier so the 20% for low MOD was changed to 25 that 5% is specific to middle income helps.

[107:07] So that was done and then at annexation we also amended our policy for at all annotations to require a higher percentage and middle income. For the Community benefits, so you recall our biggest source of middle income homeownership units in boulder is through annexation so vast majority of those come through and i'll show you some examples what those look like. So those are the four key tools and there was a B list so things that had much higher cost. perceived significant barriers and when maybe move the dial but it's surprising we've actually done quite well, so this preservation there's been a significant focus or shift in focus, I would say in the past five to seven years on, preservation.

[108:02] it's much easier to purchase an existing. Affordable project than it is to build a new one in boulder less concerns from neighbors less you know. Regulatory hurdles to jump through so we've actually made some pretty decent progress in terms of acquisition and rehab. And boulder housing partners even has some middle income rental units in their portfolio helps them as we talked about last time with Ian even those higher rents, sometimes help them to sort of balance their their sheets. Some of you might be familiar with the home domination program housing legacy program where we. People some people in the Community of have been willing to donate their home at the time of their death and the vast majority are both of the two that have been donated are single family homes, so those would likely end up as middle income.

[109:09] check marks for those and then the homebuyer assistance that was recently updated just this year actually about a month and a half. So we expanded the income limits for that and the amount, so this is for anyone in boulder who wishes wishes within the middle income range who wishes to purchase a market rate home. We give them up to $50,000 and it's a shared appreciation loan so when they sell or when they refinance they would have to pay back the amount of the loan plus whatever relative amount of appreciation that that that home earned over the time. If the homework to depreciate we would also potentially lose that amount as well. And then the one that we we just started actually last week is we have secured half million dollars for a purchase homes on the open market.

[110:12] The city would purchase those we deed restrict them and then sell them to ineligible buyer through the whole program to specifically for middle income. So we're pretty excited about this program we hope to have our first unit purchased in the next two one to two months or so. And then, once we sell that unit, we can use those funds to potentially to replenish or fund and then purchase additional units and we have additional amounts that we've set aside for the next couple years as well. And then he is sort of this. little bit in the weeds, but there are non conforming properties that are currently in our affordable housing portfolio.

[111:00] This helped us to. lot of those if they were redeveloped they would not be able to build the same number of units, so we did a code change several years ago that allowed us or allows those properties to redevelop or have significant rehab without losing potential affordable units. The neighborhood innovation pilot program there's a lot of energy around that back in 2015 David adamson and his group have been trying to keep that dream alive. But not much progress has been seen there and then a lot of people don't think of the EDU ordinance and update as middle income, but that was really key in terms of allowing a lot of Homeowners middle income Homeowners in boulder giving them an option to be able to. create an ad you create additional income and deal with rising. Living cost of living, so that was exciting.

[112:03] Definitely tried to tie that directly to middle income. So I think this was planning boards feedback for many years ago it was just interesting you know concerned about the middle markets. Will that retain affordability of time, and I think that's still a concern. But yeah just general support for an overall. And then sort of the future, so, as I mentioned the tools that we're really focused on is that downpayment assistance that h2o we're hoping that that will allow people to. or just market rate homes, make it a little bit easier for them, the preservation that I talked about. there's also the modular factory we're getting close to securing funding to build that factory and Ideally, we would break ground by the end of this year. But being able to build homes and a factory and put them out in a fixed foundation, I think we do go a long ways towards helping us achieve some of our middle income homeownership goals.

[113:08] And, of course, will continue to pursue funding with our housing partners specific for middle income but, again, remember the challenge with middle income is that. You can't use low income housing tax credits there isn't federal money there isn't state money. and actually we're just changing our policy statement for the city we're going to propose to counsel that thing glued to the state and the Federal advocacy that we you know, look at sources of state and federal funding for middle income. So just some examples in Palo park northfield comments So these are middle income units and the beauty of these is they're indistinguishable from the market rate homes right next to them. here's one duplex in Palo park. And if you think everybody should have seen our dashboard or affordable housing dashboard, this is a screenshot isolating just homeownership so It just shows you over time.

[114:11] You know how many units have been developed, how many total what type are they you can see, we do have quite a few single family. tells you, the number of bedrooms anyway just give you a snapshot of what's out there and 111 might not seem like a whole lot, but we are. We have quite a few coming online, so we have 1996 arapaho 14 middle income units five loma that's an attic station, the record field silver saddle motel is. there's also a 14 units that fissile is developing, which is out by the airport. And so we expect, hopefully, in the next couple years to at. least double the amount of middle income homes that we have now so that's we're making progress is slow it's definitely something that we need to focus on so that's it.

[115:11] Thank you Jay. questions. I have a two one material you sent out, I believe, stated that there was a city goal of 3500 new homes by 2030. Did you mention how we're tracking toward that. No, I didn't because we're not. So, and I, you know that's something I tried to point out to the working group and the Council it's really difficult to track. what's affordable as middle income because it changes from year to year, and with the housing market changing so Council, I mean we we'd spend so much time and money trying trying to track that that and that's why the big.

[116:10] we change the goal overall to focus on the deed restriction these restricted because we can't guarantee that market raking is going to remain affordable to middle income. Right and I know there's another hand range, I have one more question has been any discussion of looking at repurchasing surplus properties, the point being the land costs are extremely challenging to create. housing for the missing middle and the city might have properties are not using religious organizations tonight and other public agencies. Some communities have done, but quite a bit of work into surveying those properties and trying to negotiate low end low cost exchanges or donations to create housing.

[117:01] yeah I agree, I mean we definitely have done that mount calvary is a great example. You know where we a church that was going out of business that we negotiated. For help to facilitate full to housing partners redeveloping that property. We have looked at city properties multiple times over the years, the challenges, you know most city property, you know there's a reason why it's not developed. it's either in the floodplain or it's dedicated to another use has very strict requirements in terms of what it can be used for so there's very little surplus land as sort of would be free, we would housing would have to purchase it basically at market rate. which makes it not feasible, but we are looking like we discussed earlier with Alpine balsam right so. There is the.

[118:00] Age Wild West at ninth and arapahoe that's a potential opportunity to city owns out right doesn't have any restrictions on it spruce building, we would still have to pay something for it, but you know, hopefully we wouldn't have to pay sort of market rate. Because we'd have to offset some of the costs. But yeah I mean we're always looking for opportunities and just so you know boulder housing partners. they're constantly scanning the market, they have a broker who's always looking for opportunities and we largely rely on them to identify properties and they have done quite an impressive job just in terms of the pipeline that they have. I think Ian talked about it, you know we have. Almost 1000 units currently in the pipeline city one so. The challenges at the resources and staff to actually got there and build them all immediately it's good problem to have.

[119:07] jack you had your hand raised. yeah I had a couple of questions thoughts. You mentioned that the Community benefit, you know pieces come online. To give additional height density, how much of that. And what was the projected outcome of that was that looked at like if we in that process we benefit and I don't recall if we ever. discuss that specifically but is there any kind of sense of what we expect to see out of that out of the return on that immediately benefit investment. You know, again it's just super challenging will try to quantify that.

[120:04] You know, initially, it was very limited in where you could do it right they appendix J. So there's a reason why no one has taken advantage of it today. But opening it up now, I think there is potential, but. We still don't know not aware of anyone using it yet, but it's it's a tool that we have yeah sorry it's not a very satisfying answer. I mean i'm just. a bunch of assumptions, but. i'm not sure how meaningful good. yeah. I guess part of it was what you just said, I was kind of like. Have you know. Since these changes have happened is anybody beating down the door, but no okay um. I had another one, and this. Is this might bring you in Danny is maybe you know stuff about this and Jay I don't know what you know about it, but so I was selling a House that I have in keystone and the buyer who came in said yeah I want to buy this House and i'm going to put it into the affordable housing.

[121:15] permanently restricted stock pile which summit county is basically paying between 10 and 15% of the value of the unit that a buyer they basically refunded back to the buyer. And this particular gentleman who was buying mine, he was just you know simply an investor who saw that then it's an opportunity, and he was taking those funds, he was getting and he was rolling them into another project that you could you know another property, you could buy. And I know Danny I think you said you have some knowledge of that Danny i'm just curious if this is something that Jay you know of all or if it's been considered here and Danny what you know. yeah so make sure okay i'm unmuted um so it's it's even worse in some Academy, that is here, and essentially so they have a buydown program which I think is similar to.

[122:11] The one program Jay that you were talking about and I think it can be really useful when you have those opportunities part of the problem is. Creating those opportunities so sometimes they don't present themselves because a lot of. purchases aren't interested yeah but, so what certainly with the town of breckenridge has been doing since they sit on a giant pile of money is. they'd be going out and soliciting for by Downs on areas that they feel are units that they feel are appropriate for that, and I think the buydown program can be really effective because it. addresses the immediate needs some Homeowners to say Okay, you know that cash can come in really effectively whether it's at the transaction point or if it's a fabricated transaction but. On the flip side it controls the crazy escalation that we see now, so I think it's it's always a very useful.

[123:10] Fiscal means of you know, targeting your dollars towards areas where you want to maintain the the. You know middle income, housing, so I think it's great you know i've seen it be very effective it's just a question of it's really hard to expand it much because it's it's based on the individual inches of each particular buyer most buyers. are completely reluctant to have any sort of restriction on their on their properties, the one thing right they're all ever ever everything so speculative now rather than utilitarian and that and that's The biggest challenge with the by down. that's intrinsic Dan Is it the by down happen only when there's a transaction or do they do also do it just to an existing homeowner. So they'll do it so they've started doing it with existing Homeowners to sell phil take like say like a condominium project where it meets all the criteria to be.

[124:09] Good what they call out there as local workforce housing right if it's close to central transportation if it's close to utilities, etc, you know there's still a lot of areas that are on well and septic etc, but if it meets those then they've started looking and even soliciting to Homeowners. You know, saying like hey you know if and if it's a rental unit and stuff like that you know they offer to do it by down and they've actually. started looking at a whole older condo complexes you know that you know might be interested in renovations and stuff like that, too, but it's it's at the point you know every jurisdiction up there's declared a state of emergency for housing, so there. anything they get their hands on there they're jumping on so. Danny do you know I know there's a couple of different funding sources that little bit that i've looked into it talked about it because I did I did consider pulling my house off the market and doing that program at the end it wasn't viable, but they did say to do that.

[125:17] Do you know what the funding sources are for that it sounded like there are a couple of different areas, they were getting money. yeah there's an impact fee, so they have a designated impact fee on new construction. it's the one a program that goes right into funding for play housing other problem is, you know it was all going to go into a combined housing authority and then. Every jurisdictions like well, I have my own vision stuff like that, so now it's just allocated between the different jurisdictions so every jurisdiction handling it differently, you know. But there's that impact fee and then there's the impact fee on an excise tax on. New construction materials to so you have that thing so it's like saying essentially every monster trophy home that gets built up there, you know that's.

[126:06] 6000 square feet or more, or whatever it's if there's a both an impact in an excise tax that are really based off of the size of the home and stuff like that and that goes to fund your local workforce, housing and then there's. an array of different funding mechanisms and requirements and stuff like that, but it's you know very similar to everything we talked about where it's you know anything that you can. pull out of the hat you do, because you know, whatever you can do that, you know, like we were just talking about. The Community benefit aspect, and you know nobody's used it yet, but hey if we get a little bit out of it it's worthwhile right so it's pretty much that same type of approach just a little more direct taxation, I think. Right yeah. This is great I know we haven't declared a of urgency, or whatever word you just use or Danny but we certainly have a crisis, and you know thinking ahead i'm not going to jump to the next agenda item yet, but.

[127:13] Maybe we can be saying in our letter we are here to look for a new solutions that haven't been considered. yeah creative looking at communities i've heard. It Aspen I need to confirm what this is called, but I think if you remodel a house, you have to pay some huge fee that goes directly into an affordable housing fun it's like freezing and $50,000 or something no. that's probably the excise tax and the impact feed Michael like I was talking about. yeah yeah and you know every ounce of their 6 million bucks so that you know. No skin off their nose let's face it. right there deploying that and building workforce housing right in downtown. yeah which is politically difficult, but it is happening so if we can keep our eyes open for that and and that can be one way to board can become more productive.

[128:09] So I have one question J that what really interested me this, the whole thing of the. fabrication plant for modular and stuff and the big part of this, and this goes to this goes back to our letter from 2019 to the council's one of the things that we threw in there that, as you know that i've always been pretty. passionate about as a way to go about this, I saw that the school district and habitat. Both had involvement in that, and I mean I think that's that's incredibly promising as long as we have some ground to put them on but uh you know I mean I. we're a little bit more about that company I think that's just a huge thing and and and to me, you know we're past the point now where I think school districts and other. local entities, and you know big employers like that you know really be to jump into the fray to and and try to figure this out just just operationally on top of you know, as a community benefit.

[129:12] yeah i'm happy to come back and. give you more details and show you some images, I think, will be further along next month, or even October okay. So Jay I got a quick question for you um back back your slide at the very beginning, the middle income three person household income, was what $150,000 is that right. is even higher rebirth. It was. A. Three person hundred and 50,000 57,000 Okay, well, I mean maybe the end of this conversation on a positive note in the world of rental housing like you mentioned.

[130:00] There are, if you live by the rule of you know 30 to 33% of your gross income goes to housing. There are a lot of options for middle income rental housing in boulder I think you mentioned it, that we're doing a pretty good job of that I don't know if it's on purpose or if it's just. The way the market is but, but there are a lot of options out there for families of three to live in single family homes and whatnot that meet that criteria in the rental world. Purchasing is a totally different animal, as we all know, but hey on a closing note in this discussion at least we're doing well there that's something. yeah I would just still argue that we still have work to do with 80% and below. 4%, no doubt, but at least if you're a family three and you make $150,000 you can live in boulder in a decent you know rental house that that's that's plenty of options for that so that's something that's something.

[131:03] I agree. Michael are you talking you're muted. muted now just in there is there anything else, we need to do on this, or can we move on to letter to counsel. let's move on. Because any emotion out of this we just had a good discussion, let it a Council, I believe that to do in. About two months. i'm sure everyone remembers or last month. Procedurally i'd like to take a first crack at that and send it around maybe next couple of weeks.

[132:07] i'd love your input on if you're here your call and part of that letter stated here's what we think is going well who's what's not going well and we might we might change. Was referenced to some of the work done on. tiny homes tiny homes on wheels and, of course, a plea to. pay attention to us and allow me to evolve into a more influential board but open to any thoughts about what you're going to that letter, and please type in. Michael one one thing i'll last time we wrote this letter. add a comment about maybe, maybe, making it not as. aggressive the last one I think had some aggressive positions in there, the board, you know outvoted me on that, but I don't know my personal opinion is you get more bees with honey that's my personal opinion.

[133:15] Okay. Good boy. Michael I think my my two cents worth on this and you know we've kind of discussed it, but we hit on a couple of these things tonight talking about the middle income. And one is what Jay mentioned about a lack of that working group. wrapping their head at all around funding. And I think that that's something that I would suggest that have say we could maybe pick that up where the working we left off and. Try to start to wrap our heads around funding mechanisms, because we are not you know I mean we in some ways, our communities, a different Community than what's going on in some places like, but I also think that.

[134:11] there's just no two ways around it without increasing our funding we're not gonna we're not going to crack this and it's just the big looming, you know the elephant in the room that nobody's tackling. And, and I get it, and then the other one is zoning. And Jay also made mention of kind of zoning and how you know. I think it was Danny who said, well, we got to have land to put these things on, and I think more active approach to looking at where we can. Create land, and you know this is kind of. The big picture. I remember in one of lens. monologues.

[135:02] She made mention of you know, the area planning piece being good, but I do think there's there's a need to try to take a big look at the zoning and. The balance of what we have in town and how we're going to utilize it moving forward, and those are two huge pieces to bite off I realized that. But I don't think I mean. we're not going to get a more if we don't start to bite, so it hurts but. Well, I agree with you, and you know it's the timing may be excellent, because there is going to be. More funding for housing in the state and next year thanks to various relief measures and we need to capitalize on that and the zoning who knows, maybe we got some. Models we could be looking at that already under development like East arapahoe it could be spread in theory to other parts of the city that you know, frankly, have a lot of surface parking and under US land.

[136:10] yeah and. what's the. purpose. And, and a lot of parking happy. To start mining some of that, for the opportunity to create more housing so you're suggesting to working groups there we put that out there yeah. I suppose essentially yes that's that those are two huge pieces, but whether that sits with have or whatever, I think the recommendation, from my perspective, is the Council needs to engage with those two things or we're not going to engage with our housing issues. I could put that in a draft and we'll see how it, how it goes. yeah.

[137:01] yeah I agree. 100% agree on that note, I will add to it that I think we have the land we're just not maximizing its usage we're not using it correctly everywhere, so that we've been talking about that now on and on, for. A while. Right, you know 30 Pearl. used car a lot to housing for lots of people so. And you got it, we need to do more of it. What I will say in terms of like someone county miles on that too, so I have several projects going on right now, where. I have developers pretty well known developers what we've done and i've been represented developers on this, but. In exchange for an absorbing there's a commitment to flat out build housing and the absorbing works in terms of where it is and it's essentially infill in a lot of ways, but it's generated a lot of. brand new at what really ends up being middle income.

[138:03] Local housing by the absolving, so I think that's one of those things, and I think that's a little bit of the you know are looking at without time balsam too, and I think that's just one of those. notions where anything we can generate from a regulatory perspective in terms of opportunity and land opportunity really by zoning and and other land use processes. can be a really effective means of you know, getting things going so i'm way open to all those concepts so i'd love to have that in the letter to so I agree. right again, I think this is just expressing a little bit of optimism here, I met there but everybody draw our diagram Plaza tour, a few weeks ago and. It was really fascinating the idea of creating this incredible transforming this incredible dead space into good amount of housing, a new park transit oriented you know, there are some things are gonna happen and we need to be monitoring that and encouraging it when we can.

[139:02] yep. Okay, well, I think I got some good meat to the letter anything you know you can email me or certain Korean. Again, maybe before Labor day i'll get a draft out and everyone can review it and modify it well you know, maybe some get the vote would I suppose we need to vote on it at the next meeting, that would be good timing when it. back to the agenda, I think we. feel Michael you have at least two more meetings. letter just don't don't feel like you don't kill yourself getting them ready. Oh, I like I. Like. I like to get things done well i'm thinking about. committees and project liaison reports, I thought we covered some of this in the last meeting, we have a proposal. For amending municipal code to permit way to us, we can discuss that.

[140:12] Probably in this packet somewhere. should all be at the top of that packet or, at least at my this stuff that I said. You have a page number in the packet. You know I I put it together, I don't have it in the packet as. far as the overall package, no, you see. Can you do a share screen on that. yeah let me pull it up on my side here real quick you. I go I think you're looking for the letter. Now. i'm actually looking for this proposal regarding.

[141:04] willing to use. Can I J, can I do a share screen on it. To be able to um it says duty for the packet. yeah I was gonna say it's after the after the letter so deliveries ready to so it's Sunday two pages, so it is my after. yeah okay. Exactly should be able to share. Well, I can just share it here. too, if you want me to um. yeah I found into the packet on page 84 actually. Does that work are you guys seeing the screen share for me. Yes, okay I. want to talk. what's that. You want to talk about it talk us through it. yeah I can do that, I think it's mostly the same stuff that I I mentioned last time. In the meeting and I just kind of put it together a little bit more.

[142:01] You know I just included for you guys to look at this and review it and you know, between now and eating. At which point i'd like to have a say, are. Something we want to move forward, and you know, the timing of how to move it forward I think Jay you know you might have some thoughts on that, but i'm not sure if we're getting to that at you analysis. anywhere in the near future, or not looking at you know the how this has rolled out what we've done with a to us, I know, there was going to be a look at it again. And I don't know without that there's going to be some suggested changes if there is and that's happening somewhere in the near future than you know the least visible future than Maybe this could be packaged with it. So i'm open to just having kind of discussions about how we, and when we might want to roll this out, but the first piece would be.

[143:05] Having everybody on the board take a look at what I put here, and maybe having a discussion in our next meeting about the pros and cons of it from the board's perspective, and then a vote on whether it's something that we as a board want to push forward or not. it's kind of how I would see it rolling out. You know, and just the roll through of this and I think you guys are I. do feel that we need to go through it, or do you guys feel like you have a pretty good sense of from our past discussions of my past the raids about why this is a small step or little slice of the pie, but one that I think. is beneficial and I think it's beneficial in some ways, specifically for the our middle income efforts, not in particularly creating new units, but in supporting people who are actually I just had a woman walked by my street today. And i'd never met her before she was walking by with another friend of mine and we're chatting in front of my house and she's like oh i'm down on seventh Maxwell and we're working on, you know building an ad in the backyard and.

[144:11] You know, so I just had that discussion with her and she said well yeah we can't really afford to stay in this House in this neighborhood where we are, but with the new income, we can do that. You know and she's in that middle income, so you know that's kind of my overall take on it, I think it, it does help and I just don't see any good rationale to say we wouldn't include movable units. Within our EDU stock, why are we, why are we excluding them essentially right. So yeah we did talk about this with timeline that the last meeting. So where you're proposing is we, maybe have more discussion or make it a separate agenda item possibly we voted on it, the next meeting. At the next meeting correct.

[145:00] yeah. I just said, I would love to have this as an agenda item at the next meeting um this has been a. lot of work that was put into this, and this has been kind of a long time, common and and I think it's really it comes directly out of. Listening session and I think it's you know we're just talking about, like all the private pragmatic means that may be available to you know help address some of the pressures of the lack of housing, and so I think that's absolutely merits. full discussion at the next work session, both in terms of some of these things i'd love to get this in word, if I could. yeah I can do that I can shoot it at work yeah. And, and then we can kind of maybe just you know throw our thoughts out there and stuff like that and kind of walk it through and then and then there's the. specifics, but then there's also just the broader perspective, about how we do it and I love to get guidance from Jay on that and stuff but I really think. This is the kind of thing that if if. we're you know me what we say and we talked about it at the retreat and the whole notion that we want to have some sort of substantive input.

[146:06] we're not dictating anything we're not trying to create policy but we're saying that you know we feel this is important enough that not only are we just you know kind of piping off on it, but we're given some substance. In terms of how it can be done, I think this is a great first step forward, so I would love to have this be you know, essentially, one of the focal points at the next. The next meeting I love to see it on the agenda as a specific item so. Great Thank you right, I agree with that there's some, we need to vote on it really just agree that it's on the agenda for September. I think if we I think if we were all under that mindset, then we can just make sure when we meet to discuss the agenda will make sure to. Have a focal point. Okay. moving down the agenda, then.

[147:00] One thing just add I mean, I think it can be really powerful for the letter talk about how. In a. God had an ad you listening session, one of the outcomes was this mobile ad use this is what we're working on and what we'd like to pursue and. We would like to potentially partner with the city as they evaluate the next evaluate the EDU ordinance. and any and haven't incorporated into any future updates. I love that approach that yeah. that's great and this backtracking a little bit, but um does anyone have any other listening session ideas to pose as are mentioned in the letter. let's leave that I think I think Michael maybe let's leave that as kind of like a. An open spot because you know, like we talked about I mean, is it just that I feel strongly about this, I knows that i'm.

[148:00] waiting to see how things shake out so that we're talking about listening sessions when we're talking about in person meetings it's probably a good approach can kind of. tailor that one towards the end of the letter and just kind of put it. out great so there's a success story you're putting the letter and. That way we keep a general and say we want to do more, listening sessions on key topics. Okay, great. Matters from staff. you've heard enough for me if you guys want to. Let me know. anyone have any questions for staff. how's your summer. it's almost over i'm sad. I would, I would just say Jay with what I just put up for the mobile ad used if you have some time to just kind of look at it and just whatever feedback, you could bring for me and for us, the next at the next meeting.

[149:05] that'd be awesome. Oh definitely make time I have not read it. yeah. Excellent. Is there anything that you'd like to debrief. Far was great meeting going to be back good. Good calendar check when is our next and meeting. September. Good good you're on top of Mr Vice chair appreciate that. September let's see Tommy orient my calendar. Any other agenda items. Other than. Mobile ad us. And the letter. m yeah I think we should have a discussion on forming the working groups just by john.

[150:10] And that's September 22 I believe. sounds good to me. don't have anything else, we have a motion to adjourn. So moved. Second. All in favor. Night everybody. good night guys. Great job guys thank. You excellent. Thank you, thank you. Thank you. Everyone thank. You great meeting. Thank you so much.

[151:01] All right.