February 27, 2019 — Housing Advisory Board Regular Meeting

Transcript

[MM:SS] timestamps correspond to the YouTube recording.

[0:01] [Music] you [Music] [Music] Christel great a ex-officio from premium border judy nod Mike McKenzie Mason Moyer atoms like injection okay any just review the agenda any additions oh did you say you wanted to add yes work plan under matters for the staff will be adding the work plan anything else I

[1:01] just want to make sure everyone looks closely under five D have operating procedures and agreements and that's a big of a short window to add contributions so if anyone has that just make sure try to think of something now otherwise we'll have to deal with it when it comes and there will be a couple of their staff updates okay so you have a couple more things anybody else okay and approval of the minutes I'd like to make a motion to approve the minutes I'll second all in favor

[2:01] unanimous okay so we will open for public participation on non-agenda items okay well close public participation and we'll move on to matters from the board the first one up is Public Engagement purpose statement and decision who's taking that to the actually have to pull that up real quick

[3:12] Judy can you remind me real quick I believe we're gonna cover our rational or wise statement under 5d correct so in the packet there is that statement you sent out to everybody yes and it's just going over that and we had as a board already voted on several parts of it and it's just to finish up few remaining things great so my question being do we have anything specific public engagement wise that's not gonna be covered under your affordable housing experience well under the public engagement you know for the agenda my item we have the purpose statement and a decision on it so gotcha and it is your person purpose statement

[4:01] the why statement yes yes so that's that was where my confusion came in was whether or not we should be addressing that further down or right now because it can fit within either since its teed up about no perfect okay so just to I don't know if we can put that up on the computer Jeff give me in just a moment sure um do you want me to be able to edit it not necessarily hey yeah that's easier I can always write down edits and do them after the fact okay so you might remember we came up with this why statement last time we voted to approve all the separate goals and I essentially added the small changes that we wanted last time and this is what we have a majority of what

[5:02] was removed was tactical level stuff under each goal and anything that remains is listed as potential since it wasn't officially approved but what we have right now for sure is is the goal stuff we already voted on that that's in the books so going forward we just want to make sure that this is what we want by taking a final vote on it and yeah again we can discuss tactics at any point and add or remove them as we see fit but you want to make sure that we have this one essential document it's a point at when we're talking about the engagement committee and reassessing on a yearly basis whether or not it needs to remain a committee so we made all the changes that you are suggested for example changing the words of whatever we had to support civil discourse and so this is a

[6:08] fairly long document do we want to just take it item by item and any thoughts or just or should we vote on each one of them what would you like to see have happen yeah so I guess we did a lot of the legwork in terms of wording and stuff already so taking it section by section doing a final check and voting on that I think is totally fine again we already have the goals we voted I believe four to one and so those are those are sort of written in stone but anything else that we'd like to remove we can or add we can at this point I'm pretty sure we also I'm I don't quite recall if we voted on it but the rationale statement itself the top two paragraphs I believe we already worked together as a board we did but we can we can reroute that right here I think

[7:00] that's reasonable so let's just start with the top section above the line and I think Judy and I are committed to this language so we'll ask the rest of the board for their input

[8:05] everybody ready great okay Chuck I'm happy with it as it sits I mean I could just tweak here there but I don't know that of consequence so okay Mason I think I'm in the same spot sure I don't have anything to add I don't know if we need an official vote or anything yeah crystal did you have any info you get okay perfect let's move on to the next portion that we would look at is under the first goal and that is just potential strategies we already talked pretty heavily about this but I want to reassert that this is okay with everybody again these are sort of more tactical level things we can add or remove as needed but this is a basic outline so we know what we're working with again just want to specify that

[9:02] we're sort of working with different levels of engagement so depending upon how big the issue is how much public input what we're looking for we would sort of as a board decide what level of engagement each specific issue deserves and then work off of this hierarchy to decide what the engagement committee should be focused on doing and how far they should try to be reaching I also want to add the one difference from what was in there last time we discussed it is we have other with the question mark because we realize there may be other things for example the flyer would be a new one for this specific one but we might not do that for any other ones at all so that's the one new thing is other question so this process for me brought up a couple of questions that we

[10:00] kind of talked about in in our agenda setting meeting regarding the engagement community because I think we all agree that this is something that we would be having an ongoing for you know year after year and obviously people will be shifting and changing so every you know it brings up a larger discussion around the participation like with we're in Alpine balsam but that's got a sunset on it whereas engagement wouldn't so I'm having the discussion around how would new members participate in the engagement committee what if since we have three new people that will be joining the board what if all three of them want to be on the engagement committee and since we know that no more than two people can meet without having to call a formal meeting things to think about and discuss is

[11:03] what does that look like will we sunset every that the the roles are up every year and people are nominated for them because what if you have multiple people that are interested in the roles or not and then around these potential strategies I noticed you know we're saying for 2019 engagement so I'm curious if we're putting into place something that when we get three new members they might might want to have different goals for 2019 or since you know depending god forbid we want you here but if you're not then how did they participate in the goal-setting I was thinking about yeah and we can if you want to see you some specific language like we can reassess those at any point or something written

[12:01] specifically on there so we leave ourselves open to that I'm totally open to that as well again this was just sort of trying to be the outline for now I think we're gonna get more of what you're talking about under committee roles or 5d to so we can maybe make some broader decisions on what a committee is how often we to address or make sure that you know someone has a chance to be on a committee that type of stuff but I'm definitely open to adding whatever language you want here right now - yeah I was to use one of Jaques favorite words I'm just concerned we consider it why we're talking about the gulls is that potentially you know and Jeff did I see you want to add some something

[13:24] thank you would it work for everyone if we added a statement that said something like when the board officers are selected each year Standing Committee or the extending engagement committee I guess this can only be about that we'll also we do Elections officers committee members I mean that's what I was thinking it essentially on an annual basis we would review and re-engage with

[14:06] who the members would be and basically review the goals and you know if there were feelings have changed then we could engage with at that point it strikes me that to just point you can modify that at any time with a vote and if it's working you would let it work and if it's not working you would change it well the only reason why I was bringing it up is like say we get some people on the board that are shy about saying I want on this and and so yeah that's what I was hoping for is that maybe at the same time that we're doing all of the officer roles is that it's something to of checking in and making sure people feel like they can participate I think that is what we are going to further discuss on 5d committee rules but that's the best practice that we kind of learn maybe we counsel that none of the perspective members would you know are

[15:00] you shy right I think you did all the pastries Getti just just one suggestion and this is how Planning Board does it I'm sure other boards do it differently but what we do is when we have a retreat then that's when we ask people what their interest is in being a lay asan or any of the specific committees so it's usually the retreat usually comes a few months after Council appoints new members in that way it gives some new members kind of a framework of what what the workflow is like on planning board and that seems to work for us thank you so moving forward on the why statement in this first goal I don't I don't see anything to add to you strike me that

[16:01] that you know as a board we have certain responsibilities in one of you know to continue to move forward and and to wait and kind of anticipate whatever happens with new board members isn't I don't want to say they don't matter but thank you okay so are we good on this one any any one other great thank you going on to the second goal um just keep everyone in a quick second I read that and again we've we've already voted on the goal but keeping the potential

[17:01] strategies here is what we're seeking agreement on right now and we've talked about this since the very beginning of our board I think it's one of the very first things that we've talked about and discussed is finding new forms of public hearings or debate or paneling and the small outreach meetings seem to be pretty well liked in our last meeting as well awesome any comment I'm good good good great thank you and moving on to the third goal so this one probably is the area that still needs a the most input at this point or if we don't have any then we'll have to figure that out as time goes on so we want to make sure that we're displaying what we've done and making sure we're on track is a board with meeting the sort of idea of good

[18:03] public engagement that we're trying to encompass here so currently and this is this is all we have as far as measurements website visits YouTube views public testimonies and that's the number of public testimonies that we have but on the table still we don't have any specific plans for this but we think these are probably good strategies is get a survey via newsletter send a survey out during the public hearings especially the ones where we have a lot of people interested and again sort of community meetings with hab form or different members so what I'd ask right in this moment is does anyone have any better baseline measurement things that they would like to see aside from these

[19:00] that I have listed here again this is a tough one especially since we're only a year into this and we don't exactly know I guess well what makes an engagement committee successful the question we should be answering what's tricky when people are we have two people right now people in attendance at the board meetings that active engagement of achieving that which is would seem like it would be a worth a worthwhile goal but maybe I haven't thought it through I would add that it would be kind of interesting to see if we could put something on be heard bolder about literally asking for feedback maybe a series of like five questions so a survey yeah and that we

[20:00] you know could start out every year even once a quarter change what those are at or goals or something I don't know I'm not really it's not thought through but something along that line would be kind of interesting yeah I had essentially that same thought that if we can get on to be her bowl or some way to collect kind of regular hits of feedback on both the immediate processes that we're in and just the general housing condition just so that we can actually track people's engagement one good way that I just thought of this very second was you know housing is on the latest Community Survey the biggest concern may be tracking that progress over time is a good way to see if we're addressing the issue is strongly as we can I realize that's more than just the engagement process but that's probably a good metric to measure I was just gonna say

[21:02] along those lines to maybe just breaking that down even into you said you know a certain number of questions but if we focus those and we're collecting data then on let's say it's Alpine balsam and we broke down just some basic metrics about that project and how the public's perceiving it and what their concerns are and we just allow that to live and we can collect that not oh not have to think through it more on the technology end of how that works and how we make sure that we're getting not just repetitive hammers from you know one one address that's coming at us but that they're somehow parsed and and invaluable measurement yeah thanks I just wanted to add as far as counting people who are here in the audience engagement committee can easily do that by counting and keeping a record of that as far as the be heard Boulder

[22:00] it's a great idea it's dependent on if be heard Boulder is interested in that you know so we can't we can take your suggestion to try and make it happen and make it happen and they'll either say yes or no and you guys who have you know we may ask you to come up with what is it you're wanting to know and I'm curious if we add in projects like that I'm it feels like it would get because they already do a really great job of narrowing down their surveys specifically for their projects and if we're talking about feedback specifically on hab and our engagement process I feel like those five questions might be tailored very different but yeah I kind of think just making a point of looking at each specific projects feedback it should be something that we're all doing and committed to right and then yeah this was more specific to

[23:01] our performance well and also to Judy's point about whether or not be heard Boulder and Sarah would want to do this is what's interesting it was last year during the application period was there was a lot of discussion around feedback loops right so this might be a fantastic way to if they're open to it to consider a larger project of a feedback loop on I'm gonna say it out loud maybe boards and commissions in city so that people can we can start to get the feedback loop on some of the projects etc that we're working on not just do you like to see more housing or less housing but actually how do you think we're doing so that you actually have a review a way to review the engagement that the city's doing including us as boards and Commission I was wanting to ask and we added in their surveys at public hearings does an Adam and I talked about that some but do you guys have any

[24:01] questions about what we're meaning when we say that or do to college surveys yeah shaking his head yes sure if you want to well so in nonprofits that try to get satisfaction of clients or consumers or whatever they often do at events like if we were having a public hearing what we talked about was sending out you know like a little half paged each person with maybe two or three questions that they can either put their name or remain anonymous just anonymous and it's like did you get what did you want out of this did you get it out of what was your satisfaction level whatever and then you can start building a baseline like the first year if you have only 42 percent who answered felt satisfied then you want to set your goal as at least trying to get above 50% next time so it's that sort of thing it's where we regularly at public hearings would pass something out that the

[25:02] engagement committee would be responsible for doing it wouldn't be Corey's problem to to do it you know we would pass it out and and collected at the end and that's that's what we meant by that I think my only the public areas and the community meetings I was seeing that I'm just curious about the newsletter process the newsletter goes out with requests for feedback and what's that feedback loop in other words how does that information come back from a newsletter is just I'm just curious what that process looks like okay sure so we discussed last time that newsletters we would want on a very specific basis if we ever do set up an email list of any sort that again is another it's a process with in itself that would have to be set up we don't necessarily have a specific need or interest right now to do that that was

[26:00] just sort of a potential that's what we can cross that out if you like you've all been on the board longer than I have what's you know so far what do you have a favorite example of engagement and and yourself yourself to when planning board or other forts and oh look I'll go for it's my favorite one was manufactured housing we had a lot of people it was I thought it was dynamic it was engaging in and very fulfilling I mean I thought we were really engaged and respected by the community and our engagement with them and but that's the best example I could give and maybe you have others we've had more people in an engagement I actually agree with you just because that was the most recent one we haven't had that many big issues come across to be honest with you where we would have a lot of people out yeah my only thing is

[27:02] I still think there's a lot of room for change and growth in that area because just the simple public process of people coming up here and talking on the podium that's not super inviting to everyone in general so I still think we have a lot of work to do and getting different type of feedback it seems like email seems like there's one if I went back through the emails that I've received since I didn't engage on the board there would be what I'd politely call over sampling from one person that's not bad but if we had you know a hundred people or a thousand people emailing and emailing sometimes people can be a little anonymous or a little easier for people to do rather than standing up in front of a microphone a lot of people I think it's a great point they're unwilling or unable or for a variety of respectable reasons not to engage that way and would choose not to

[28:02] so what I'm hearing you say is that these potential strategies are just that potential strategies and possibilities to achieve each one of these goals and when we had talked in the past about some of the email neela newsletters and connecting with individuals there was a lot of like drilling down to the details like who would manage the list and how would we collect and you know all that so I think what I'm hearing is that you want to in general get agreement buy-in from all of us regarding the goals and the potentials strategies and the why statement and we put a rubber stamp on this and we move forward and as we get into the next project we start to decide which one of these strategies which one of these goals and kind of drill down when we get there you're a hundred percent correct I certainly want to support you in that and you're asking for my support and it's there I don't

[29:03] have to fiddle with the wording I do want to include the number of in-person audience members I think that's an important one to include that we didn't hear as a measurement and then something I'd be heard bolder as a potential place for a survey so those two I would definitely add and if we approve that I'll add that after the fact it will already be approved yes so I don't think we have to take a formal vote but you I think the straw poll or the rubber stamping is saying that we're all feeling good about this correct yeah everybody's a thumbs-up and we're moving forward I just have a question if we don't formally vote on it will it still be in the minutes Cory don't still be in the moment I'll make note of that think great that's all we were asking for we can move on

[30:00] fantastic so public engagement now the affordable housing experience Judy do you want to start this one okay so the things we were thinking of doing were Flyers to all the affordable housing residents and you can get a there's a list online of all the addresses so we don't need to have the names and we can just deliver the Flyers in both Spanish in English and letter to the editor which we want your feedback on a very brief letter to counsel Jeff gave really helpful input on that and then just a little thing to try and get in the newspaper under the what's going on sort of section and then as a separate issue how what we plan what our idea is that we want to get approval from of what we want to do at the meeting so so Mason

[31:03] how do you suggest you want to do it in do the media stuff first that seems probably appropriate anybody else have a way that they desire to tackle it okay yes Judy okay so the ones that seem to be easier how about the really short one that just sort of the who what when where to try and get just a very simple one that says the boulder Housing Advisory Board invites affordable housing residents affordable housing providers and the general public to participate in a public hearing about the affordable housing experience six o'clock p.m. on April 24th at the Municipal Building at 17-17 Broadway period and where would that one be utilized we're gonna try and get that in the boulder daily camera or even Boulder weekly just in their coming

[32:00] event sort of section that they have any comments something I want to add is Zack who's our what new petition director Oh Zack who is our tech person comes back to work after parental leave on March 11th and we don't want to bother him the first few days but right after that we'll see if we can get a meeting with him to talk about being on next door otherwise we can try something ourselves and what what else the city might be able to do but the next thing would be I guess the letter yeah let's take this one at a time okay sorry so to drive a little traffic for something something like that for example to give we a free month's rent or the affordable house to drive traffic and introduce

[33:08] engagement and provide I think that could be fabulous like free dinner at so in such-and-such place or something you know something that worked with the when we were up at Ponderosa was a 500 a 250 and a $100 gift certificate to a grocery store to was also very valuable I do not know what constraints there might be on offering incentives using you know the support budget for have we can look into it I do I'm sorry okay yes when I was working on a television show for the city and Patrick van Kaiser Ling was already in place we were able to have we were changing the name of the

[34:02] program from senior spotlight and we had a contest where we offered a free dinner to the winner of the person who came up with the best new name which became 50th and that I mean we never heard that that wasn't okay with the city but that'd be great to find out something and what budget we could go for and offer that we could do a lottery here or would we be out of bounds to even seek something as an in-kind donation from someone like older housing partners or another you know I know there's someone it could be a partner or something like that this conflict with hey Mike it's your mic on yes okay is everybody's mics on yes yes so we can check into that as well that would be amazing

[35:00] it's are cool we like instead of I mean like a pragmatic checking in or said like a frictional kind of checking in I think I'd say I don't know the rules I'll check with the people who do and see what the possibilities are pragmatic information-seeking okay so let's go back to the wording on this any comments on this and again this is for the daily camera or the bolder weekly specifically the event calendar portion yep and obviously if we do get to do something like that we would change the wording of everything yes to include anybody good I'm good I'm good okay okay let's go to the flyer next this would be we would reduce the size that you're seeing it

[36:00] now so that it would be just half a page and Cory was kind enough to translate it into Spanish as well and we would just put these on each door you can't put them in mailboxes cuz that's not legal but you can put them at each door so I'm curious how many properties were talking about and who's doing this I'm doing it I'm paying for it that wouldn't cost anything and that's a lot what's a lot and you're talking about all the affordable units in Boulder that I can find addresses for and get to and if I can find out I don't know the affordable owners if I can get their addresses or not but if I could I would I don't know how many affordable housing units are the 1,300 I can't quite I can get to I guess the list I got was um Boulder housing partners list so I could

[37:02] at least get to that and it's not as awful as it sounds because it's I don't know if you guys have done leafleting for political things before but we just do you know they're all next to each other just do it I was just gonna ask Jeff do you know if bhp has any sort of a regular communication with the affordable housing residents that we could potentially piggyback on I believe that they do but I don't know the frequency or the method of delivery or an email list it would be substantially easier mm-hmm right but I don't know if we can have access to that I'm pretty sure we can - so what do you mean you're pretty sure that we can't have we checked with them if they would include a blurb from us no

[38:01] no with that would definitely be a first step hikes Metro okay yeah okay so seems like we'd wanna reach out to all of our housing partners and see who would be willing to who has a monthly newsletter or something along those lines and if they'd be willing to include this as part of their or email yeah yeah this is a worst-case scenario yeah great that I just no you don't even have to raise your hands with this look I sent you I think the best what I would recommend is meeting with the communication staff here to figure out what messages you want to deliver what you're already working on tonight and they might evolve a little bit depending on how your discussion goes and then think through with some of the communications staff what the best

[39:00] vehicles are for delivering those messages and to what extent this that whether or not the city staff can help with that is a different question we can certainly help think through a plan to help generate to let people know and hopefully generate some interest in participating in this that's certainly within our role and we would potentially be able to help with some of dress so I would just ask you to keep that in mind and we don't have to wait for Zack to be back there other communication staff we can meet with if you'd like to do it before he's available should we consider including I guess people would call homeless people and this because there's nothing more affordable than outside and and we should we should include that I think in this particular instance

[40:02] probably not but I think that should be a very high priority another project that we get to because we haven't had the opportunity to address that in any way and I think that's super important so I'm just thinking of the size of the scope of this one already right you're calling it really it's kind of your committee and we're wouldn't believe me yeah there's nothing I'd like to do more than address some of those questions too but I I think that's just a little bit too broad maybe proposing in the new year - what we could do is set aside on our agenda maybe after matters from the board or something like that where every time unless our schedule start to get really full a half hour where we can invite in maybe some particular people around a topic so if we say homeless or houseless

[41:02] individuals and we invite several community members who are activists in this area to come and participate and speak about it as a way to engage and inform yeah I think that's a great idea so maybe at our next agenda meeting Jeff what we could do is talk about how some of those can be worked into the work plan as a potential way that we're reaching out under specific topics for individuals who are expertise or activists in that those areas I just like to add I think that's an outstanding idea and yeah and I hope we yeah that the agenda committee gets that on for us to make plans to do something every month the engagement committee could certainly do something to get that word out to that particular population I think it's a great idea

[42:02] I'm sorry yeah just another thought is you know I know that most of the housing providers have resident councils but they're the traditional ones like Boulder housing partners vessels etcetera and manufactured housing there is a residence group outside of the the more formal groups that are inside the different parts that are often managed by the owners of the park but I think the harder to get to groups are going to be the first group that came here that talked about the unbundled parking requirements and what it meant to them when the fee throws for you know getting an additional parking place or or the other fees that they highlighted so I

[43:00] think that's gonna be the harder harder group to get quite frankly and I do like Jeff's idea of working with the city communication staff just right up front and you know show them what your goals are and what you hope to achieve at this meeting and let them come up with help develop a plan I just want to mention that the when I think it was May Center one of you asked about what was a good process you saw for something for outreach and I thought the Boulder Valley comp plan was just excellent and it drew a whole lot of people in now I'm not suggesting a big old five year long process but but the reason it was so good is it hasn't had an educational component but then you could also start to see people's suggestions reflected in

[44:00] the policy so in the policy work of Planning Board and City Council and and staff so I just wanted to throw that in because how do you measure if your outreach is successful and that and when we came for the final adoption of the comp plan I don't think anybody came and said don't do this they said thank you for including this so to me that was successful great I just want to make sure we're definitely not saying that we don't plan on utilizing staff we absolutely will be we just realized that they have restrictions as to their time so we're just saying what we're willing to do if we don't get a full you know comprehensive plan with staff so what I want to add was it seems like the steps would then be to approve all the

[45:02] documents that we've brought before you or change them however you want or whatever knowing that if we can do a give away some sort of give away just somebody in a lottery and that that will be added so we would do that first you would find out if we can do the giveaway first so we know that and then we would contact communication staff through you right does that sound like the steps mm-hm so so yeah if we can get back to this to the flyer which would either which would be a flyer as a last resort or it could be if we could get the the providers the affordable housing providers to disseminate it for us so how about that wording the wording we have for this

[46:03] any objections no no but I'm good okay so the next one would be the newest version that I sent out yesterday I guess do you have that of the letter to the editor that I just sent out I think it was yesterday of both the letter to the editor and then suggested letter to council and I just made a few changes in that based on on some of your suggestions and Jeff may want to add some more which one was Judy this one draft three not know the counselor and then there's another one yeah and I sent them together I think

[47:06] no sir after that no I'm not finding it for some reason are we talking the letter to the editor yeah so when I email to everyone yeah it is in the packet but I sent a new one out yes but we can put the one on the packet up and I can go over what the changes were Geoff want thought a few things should be added I'd put it out you have maybe it didn't go that's not today you saw I do so Mike saw it yes there's somebody have it they could email it to me right now Geoff for yeah yeah I'm sorry yes draft 436 really I know so that's

[48:00] one of them yeah well that's one of them there were two two different things week might as well do the council one first cuz that's up great so Geoff had suggested that we do something as brief as possible and that was as brief as I could get but you know me so you can make it as brief as you want would you say April had meeting in that prior paragraph I don't you can scroll back up just in the I think it was in the first paragraph that's nineteen is that mean 2018 was that April already

[49:00] yeah about our April this reference is the upcoming April meeting yeah but the it just wasn't clear to me reading it colder that it was upcoming verses to past so I think if you had if you were comfortable adding 2019 gotcha April meeting that it would be clear that this is to happen in the future rather than something that we were counting for that happened in the past gotta the same the summer of you gonna say the summer of 2018 okay and Mason I hope you saw this when I emailed it because your name is signed from you because Jeff thought it should

[50:01] come from the book normally they come from the Bodhi care the sense that begins after months of consideration had is wood wood it's often that just I mean is it's a pretty declarative statement would to say intends to has decided to hopes to intends to hold sense I mean we're doing it though doing it I mean irrespective of because I don't know in a letter for just informing them or if there's kind of a ask for endorsement as I suppose that's not really what we're doing I like the way you say that because it doesn't imply that we're asking for their permission but it does it does soften yeah with my name on it you don't want to say like well like it or not here's what we're doing

[51:04] mindful of the prior discourse in the antennae toy with your letter too much yeah what's the intention of this is for it to go out a little bit a very short time before we start doing our regular publicity and I might be lost but what's the last sentence for so just to remind everyone we've for this it all sort of came from our is affordable housing really affordable in this case we don't have anything that we would specifically suggest to council this was gonna be you know if we decide that a survey is important an exit survey for

[52:01] affordable housing residents that would go directly to staff that would not be a thing that council could decide on we could make that same recommendation to Council but this isn't supposed to be for council am i capturing that correctly when throughout our discussions well I don't know that it was clear I mean you're not you're not planning to take what you hear and and make a recommendation but you're not ruling that out either I thought yeah kind of depends on what you hear and what you decide to do with it so I guess my only example I have is we were gonna make a recommendation that we extend the length of notice for rent increases but you already did that right but that recommendation would have gone to the city manager not to correct you can make recommendations to staff the city manager or the City Council and

[53:00] I think our discussion was that possibly the input you would receive and the thinking and discussion you would have might prompt you to propose work items that's for accounting your you know in your twice-yearly letters to council but that probably going to a recommendation without having their approval of you working on it wasn't what you wanted to imply so there it is that was that was what I was trying to get it well what happens we have a work plan suggestion that comes out of this and we just said we wouldn't be making any recommendations I could be wrong but I thought we discussed this at length at other meetings that we were that with the council's interest in our sticking to the work plan right now and with the sort of recommendations that had been coming out of all our discussions on it that that all the things we were

[54:00] contemplating were to go to the city manager if if at all if we vote on doing anything at all and that we weren't going to do and that part of the reason for writing this letter is that council could go okay fine I don't care you know we don't have to deal with it so if you aren't comfortable with the City Council part we can just put a period at the end of city manager well as far as my name goes on it I think it should always come from have habits board in the whole if we and this might be one of the discussions we get to further down is that if we're gonna send out a communication we have to decide does it come from all of us do we want to just go with the majority vote on something and that's good enough for for us or do we only send out stuff where we all agree to it but that's again a later discussion but me personally I I would rather see something come from the board and not just the chair I think this is a

[55:02] consequence of me saying and the discussion we had that asked if somebody has to send it and typically it's the it's the board on be a chair on behalf of the board as a whole I think what you're referencing is a procedural question is to if we say it's coming from the board as a whole what does that actually mean is it is it majority is a supermajority why wouldn't we just list each name on it because I mean for me I wouldn't be sending a letter to me I wouldn't be sending a letter to council because I would want our letters to be poignant and impactful and and that it's by the time we do decide to send somebody we're not saying we may or may not make a recommendation and if we've already

[56:01] agreed to our annual letter and then another letter in six months and then this and then you know at what point is it over communicating to say by the order of the housing advisory board and sign all their names or by the order of the Horace again under unanimous unanimous law or with unanimity but are you saying you don't want to send this letter at all I support you guys from the engagement committee and if you sat up here and said it's something you really want it's not like I'd oppose it but to have my name and have it coming from the chair and me alone that feels like I put my stamp on it and I'm really pushing or moving this forward and I don't know that I feel that strongly

[57:00] about it to do it so that's does that make sense totally and I don't think it should just come from you six months from now cold and picked it up they would think well this just came from the chair I agree I think it should come from the whole board and not just from you the other piece that I might suggest in this is that closing statement I almost feel like it would be more valuable to express what we're trying to accomplish through this in some manner saying maybe recommendations are to the city manager or to Council is a potential outcome but I think what would give you even more value than that in that last 10 minutes to say what are we trying to accomplish by having this meeting yeah there's what what are we hoping to find out and what relief may we be trying to

[58:01] provide to the affordable housing community in doing this outreach so in some ways I almost feel like that last piece could land it we feel like it's not necessary to say whether we're gonna make a recommendation for work plan in 2020 or not I don't think that is necessary in this in this letter what I feel is important is to express our purpose in doing this we've kind of given the lead-up what's happened in the past but we haven't said so we're having this meeting in order to try to provide relief in these areas or to these concerns the table is just not curved quite enough so I like the idea of having a final sentence that sums up our intentions the reason why the whole

[59:00] reason why I think it's important to write the letter at all is so that when council sees or hears about our publicity for the event they don't go oh no we just told them to stick to the work plan and they're doing something they're gonna try and bring something to us and that's not what we're doing I want them to know this is something that's gone on for eight months that was brought to us by the public it's a public engagement issue for which we should be responsible and and that any recommendations we make at this time will be going to the city manager not them so I to me that sentence is very important I do like the idea of a follow-up and I don't care at all if it's for Mason or the whole board it's all fine with it that's all fine so I'd like to piggyback piggyback I would like to see the lessons removed and our purpose T a purpose for the event not intention because I feel like that's slightly different an intention versus a purpose

[60:01] and I think through if I if I if possible Judy I think it's possible to be clear in the purpose that we're wrapping up a project not starting something new and not putting something new on a work plan so if we're if our purpose is we're coming to a conclusion on something that started in 2018 and again some type type type of tightness on that I feel like we can't accomplish what you're talking about and I vote for removing that piece of it as well landing with something and and having it come from the board just trying to think through wordsmithing this just a quick question schedule-wise do

[61:01] do we need to have this knocked out tonight great point can it be something that we work on or make a couple of suggestions for the last line and since we're we've got to meet with a community the communications person anyway and figure out incentives so it's something that we could work well yes but we only have one more meeting to decide it decided but if somebody wants to come up with the way of doing it beforehand I get mixed up on you know not wanting to cross any boundaries of more than one person working on it or whatever whatever but young not opposed to waiting maybe those of us who have a sense that we might draft that final statement could yes we could in the pod we nominate we that's

[62:00] you and me since we're the ones who had concerns sounds good but we could we could get something to you and you know we could just feed it out to everybody and they could send comments back you know through yes Jeff yes so it seems to we need to establish a standard practice for that kind of soliciting input and the best way of doing that would be for someone to put something out and all comments go to corey and then if easily reconcilable we we can do that if they are not we can't you can't engage in a dialogue over email about substantive issues so we'll have to make a call as to whether it is necessary to come back to a public meeting or not but if someone puts out a draft and everyone

[63:00] says that's fine or here's a typo or please change that word you can get something completed that way could we also say that if we put out something to the group changes are submitted to you before our agenda meeting that we could final approval if everybody agrees instead of a substantive conversation that we would agree at the agenda meeting to rubber-stamp whatever would need to go into the packet for final approval or something like that does that make sense yeah I think that is if the board is willing to delegate that responsibility and authority to any subgroup or the agenda committee they can certainly do that how do you guys feel about that so what we're suggesting just to recap is that and I'll use for example this situation but we're talking about the protocol in general that Jacque and I would read draft the state the last line

[64:03] put it out to the group you could send your changes to Cori and if there was any real conflict or anything of substance then at the agenda meeting Adam and I or whoever would be chair and co-chair of AIESEC share would be able to work out the last gist of it the very straightforward process that conforms to the protocols it makes sense would be helpful to make a motion and vote and adopt it so we could just move forward anybody else I mean Jeff correct me but I mean I'm so used to working in the planning sphere that usually at end the City Council but usually at agenda committees there's no decisions made it's oh is it ready for prime time I mean that's the number one decision but

[65:01] it's not set up agenda committees to be a committee that will make substantive decisions so I just is it possible to for us to run differently or do we have to adhere to what other boards have done well certainly a subset of the in a non publicly noticed meeting cannot take substantive action the question as I see it is his approval of communication on behalf of the board a substantive action and I don't people considered that because we would just be the two correct I'm sorry I didn't understand your question so for me the of the matter is does reconciling some edits to on a communication that has been generally approved according to a plan that the board approve does that rise to the level of needing to occur in

[66:02] a public meeting I think that's what crystal you were referring to is a subset of the board can't can't take meaningful action on behalf of the board you can't delegate to two of your members the authority to make a recommendation to Council right substantive enough to cross that line that's right and we would always err on the side of doing things in public view I asked Erin the attorney who makes the rulings on these things for you what she thinks but about this procedure okay thank you and letter let us know so as so that we've got two different issues here going on right now then we need an answer on this line and moving forward and then we also are talking about overall protocol or how we could handle these in the future with our month long meetings versus our bi-weekly so let's

[67:01] take part one we are option are is that we we wordsmith and adopt something right now or you would I guess agree or trust that Jacques and I could come up with something so with minor changes being sent to Cory so take a break I'm sorry Judy go ahead just why'd you take a break why don't you go do you feel comfortable would that be too much dress if we took a 10-minute break you wouldn't did it and then we went back and looked at it and we go ahead you Jack I think that's a possibility I think I'd feel too much pressure but I was gonna say maybe that we've kind of done this in the past and maybe kind of

[68:04] the best move is that we actually put together a draft committee real quick now we talked about Mason and I but from a certain perspective I think that that base committee would maybe be better served to be let's say Judy and myself or Judy and Mason or Adam someone from this committee who's already put this together and then one of us that has the concern that we've had about how it's crafted we can work something out between the two of us that we think fits that middle ground and then we could present that across to everybody I think there's a better chance that we'll we'll hit something that that the other three on the board can then be like okay we've kind of we won't have to do any and we won't have to do that extra right so are you just talking about that last sentence mm-hmm that's it mm-hmm okay why don't you just take some input right

[69:01] now and because I mean quite frankly well we're also talking about protocol overall how we want to handle this as a board in the future yes it's the two issues it just seems like it's a lot of time over the last sentence you know maybe people can give input publicly where they are on it what if there's any great suggestions I mean I'm gonna just start and say even though I'm non-voting and I'm kind of stepping out of my area but I you know we will keep you informed of the input we received yes all their housing advisory board I'm sure you guys have good ideas but all we don't want to do is piss them off that's what we're really going for so that's that's the needle I'm trying to thread right now okay you don't want to say it's an

[70:00] election year you might want to buckle up it's about to get interesting I would just like for a second to go back about where the genesis of this whole letter came from and people were asking about the letter to the editor and what my concern was and I said my concern was that council doesn't know and I don't want them to be surprised and I don't want them to be agitated when they find out we're doing this so my interest in the whole letter is do we do that and right now I felt like the last sentence might have done that but that's what I'm interested in like whatever goes for that and you know that it's like we're not asking council to put this on their work plan in any way shape or form and I think what Jacques and I are saying is that we hear you we understand what you're saying that you like Adam said you don't want to piss off council and we understand that and we will keep you

[71:01] informed of the input received is not a purpose statement it's not and what Jacques and I were talking about is the purpose of this meeting is this and then that way it doesn't and the purpose of this meeting is to wrap up the following project to the end of it so it hits on letting council know that we're wrapping something up not starting something new so can we just take a straw vote is like are the majority of people here are there three people that are unhappy that don't want I'm unhappy I was good there are three people they don't want that want the last sentence changed are there three people that want the last change change from have me make one or more modest recommendations the city manager but will not be making any recommendations to Council are there well I think what you're asking then is is will it be voted will we approve it as it is yeah I'm just wondering it's like do we want to spend all that time

[72:00] if I put myself in the role of council I would be provoked by the last sentence without without any doubt like what are you talking to city manager for we were already doing this we've already agreed to do this you've already agreed that it's in concert with everyone else and by the way this is what we're doing that's it that's straightforward yeah that's why it strikes me we could just probably do that at a break what was your suggestion well I I mean I'm I'm in agreement with exactly Mike what Mike said I just found the last sentence awkward okay and I wouldn't put it in put in something else and I would say I mean Judy I'm absolutely on board with the heads up aspect of this I think that is important for where we stand now and

[73:01] maybe I'm leaning towards your suggestion like that we just go when we take a break we'll sit down and we'll crank something out but I want to make sure that we're I feel like we haven't wrapped up the intent intention of this and I'd like to just wrap up the intention and simultaneously for me I'm a little less concerned about councils take on I feel like the last sentence is a little provocative as it sits so I'd like to soften it in a sense from that sense but I also don't want to limit us from saying you know what if something important comes out of this and we want to put this on workplan next we're gonna put on work plan next year and I don't want to suggest that we're not going to do that if we find something valuable and something that can get chewed on so that's that's kind of the two pieces I'm trying to get in there so I'm gonna make a motion to table this until after our break and who will be working on it I will oh no I'm fine I'm fine

[74:06] good I understand better what you're all saying and I go with it no that's fine I don't care if it's to do the I don't care if it's the two of you Adam yeah I'll work with you okay I don't think we need to make a motion on it I think you guys will just work on it and then we'll come back and talk great I just wanted to move on yeah 20 minutes so then the next one was the letter to the editor yep and the final one the final piece right for the record I rescind my motion [Laughter]

[75:05] and again what I think this begs the question of is whether or not we're gonna do consensus full agreement is this come from the full board one person just the engagement committee so I think that lens of when we look at this is very different for anybody who's you know because you had made in the statement in the last meeting that said that you would rather not say this is a public one yeah we just haven't no it's it's just out of immediately yeah so I just for clarity purposes on what you were talking about is what you'd be comfortable to sign on are we agreeing that especially to when we get to seven people is that everybody agrees a majority agrees how do we want to look through the lens what's on the three anonymous people so so we're making this

[76:04] specific that ask on each of these pieces actually the one we just covered that would be our ask was since it's going to council the whole board would be on board with it for this letter to the editor this would come specifically just from the have engagement committee so we're trying to specify the ask in advance of the board's approval of it so then once officers change its whose everywhere on the engagement committee would be drafting this and and we would be okay as a board you would still need full board approval too soon board approval well a majority sorry okay a majority to approve it for us to send it in this form as with everything it's so much already rule on this board so I must want to draft a rule that says has to be unanimous for every piece that we

[77:01] send out to be approved which we can absolutely do if you want it's not at me I'm just saying is that that's a discussion making sure that everybody's on board with what we're moving forward definitely what are we doing could you call backup Jeff - on this piece this is the letter to the editor talking about what we plan on doing with affordable housing experience public meeting

[78:32] huge improvement really like how it feels way more open and accessible and engaging is there any concern about the last line since it is very similar to you the last line of the other thing we just talked about yes okay would whichever considering that in the

[79:00] Committee on outreach this is this you wrote this between the two of you right and and there's anyone outside of both of you no sorry Jeff yeah I have not done TextEdit side provided some comments to help shape it I think that's I think that Judy would you say that's how it seems like yeah not just you but the entire board would get benefit if you could if you could find access to someone that maybe writes press releases writes public relations stuff that just as a community service people that do that routinely it's a quick rewrite I mean it's a it's three to five minutes to do that it's not a big ask for someone and I think it might add some brevity and clarity to it and if if we took that approach it might mean that it you know as we come to a meeting and if we had a

[80:01] letter like this to sign off on it might make it a little easier and more fluid to do that and they knew there's a risk of offending on that I tend to in the past I was a former associate editor for the corporate public relations journal but I'm reluctant to engage in that because it can people could be sensitive about being edited and you put a lot you put a lot into this and it shows you've put a lot into it right so yeah I'm not offended or sensitive about it at all but letters to the editor well when I worked with nonprofits the long on times had a workshop for people on how to do publicity for their nonprofits and the person who led it was actually Quentin young who's now the editor for at the boulder daily camera and they talked a lot about who what where when why is very important in articles maybe your

[81:01] essays are some certain sort of things but letters to the editor are a different sort of animal and if everyone just put who what where when why every nonprofit an agency in town would send their things to the letter to the editor and you sort of have to make it a story and I'm not touchy at all about how anyone wants to change the letter people can people can say this isn't working for me and I'll try a draft and submit it next time we we have time because it doesn't we don't want it to go out tell the Sunday before the meeting so that's fine it's just that in a letter to the editor you don't want brevity people don't read letters to the editor for that reason and they wouldn't get printed if we just said who what where when why see I don't think I agree with that I I think people typically probably would read three to four hundred words and getting read is very important if you write a letter to the editor and getting read would be helpful to have someone that's four pairs of documents

[82:00] that says this has a very high probability of getting read in the letter and in moreover being understood and communicated with that now some people take will take time and read you know lengthy letters to the editor in the New York Times and others and they can be they can be rather in-law some of the editors screen out or some of the wrong stuff they don't print because it's just like it's it doesn't fit with our page content maybe on that day of the paper well and they do have a word count in this this is under 300 words and I'm perfectly delighted if you want to take a shot at writing letter the editor we're happy to have help and want to write letter the editor that is you know engaging to the public and and still gives information I'm more than happy for you to do it in the word count is 300 yeah what I would suggest is is if he had someone that you know that you liked and respected and found someone that value adds as a as an objective third party you know it's a little risky you know as a fellow board member for me to do that

[83:00] rather than finding someone a colleague a friend that's it kind of trades in that space if you will that that can be a really quick and effective rewrite and I know what I write articles for stuff I go and seek out an editor and I need that because I write unedited it's it's kind of like a it's like handing in a first draft if you will a little bit and it's risky and you can make it really really good with that input from somebody like that I'm curious Jeff does the communication department is are there any interns or anything like that that might be willing to take us on for these kind of side these pieces that we have that for your engagement it'd be interesting if we could potentially because it's different than other boards and our engagement is more robust than I think some of the

[84:01] other boards besides projects like when you know transportations doing their project or something like that just curious if ongoing or it could be even something fun where you know we work with Cu class that's working with us for a semester or something like that I mean I think that I think the idea is is a good one and I think there's value in it that we can find a third party I do think it's valuable that they are also professionals in that realm and engaging with it so if we can find communications people and if that's something that would be within their scope and we can make an ask of that I mean I suppose that might be the first place to stop and look both because it's within the city staff kind of group and it's you know probably the most evident place we're not going to a third party outside of staff who might have their own take

[85:04] on something and therefore shifting it we're just looking for a straight you know at and as you said just how to craft it in a way that may present better so I think it would be a good idea to do some form of that yeah again we're kind of getting into the process these piece of this and a lot of these are questions we have down the road no just looking for what our next step should be interesting question cuz we know we have a rework on that last sentence so I assume the same can apply to the lessons and both well it seems to me the last letter was more of a purpose wrap-up statement of a process that took a year whereas this was a is an invitation into also including new a new way of engagement

[86:03] does that make sense but Jeff do you have thoughts a little help here Jeff will help I think you would want to start with agreeing on what you want to accomplish in the meeting what does success look like then you your communications flow from that you know if you if success is a lot of people that want to engage on affordable housing questions that's one thing if is we one of potential work plan items to be surfaced that's an they're not mutually exclusive obviously so it's not entirely clear to me what you want to accomplish by holding this event and I think that's making your attempts to communicate about it hard you know you want to get some people ago you know you

[87:00] want to have a good conversation you want us you know try out some new things to what end so just as a overview I think it's obvious we want to get as many different experiences from different affordable housing resident renters owners and what I say owners I meant not the owners of the affordable housing units but we want them to so I read every level every person who interacts with the affordable housing process we wanted as many of those experiences as possible we want them to tell those experiences both positive and negative to sort of answer the questions what is the affordable housing experience like are we capturing fully as a community that it is in fact affordable and what

[88:01] might we suggest to either city manager or counsel hopefully not counsel for improvements to the process something like a survey and exit survey that's sort of where this all came from and it feels pretty correct me if I'm not encapsulating that okay so we want you're asking for as much feedback as possible a positive or negative regarding the anybody who's in or experiencing affordable housing and whether or not I heard you say that whether or not they're affordable so maybe we need to start with what are the three things you want to have answers to because if we hope that developers providers and city staff can participate in this process what's the process the

[89:01] process being we just want you to share information we but if we share and collect this information what's it for do students saying I see where he's saying with the endgame and on that note why don't we can we pause for a second we'll take a break yeah I don't know problem with that or do you two want to keep going okay it feels like it's getting fuzzy right now and a little murky so maybe just a 10-minute break 7:30 right now we'll be back at 7:40 Jacques you and Adam I'm working on the 40

[99:23] and we took a break for a minute to redraft the last sentence and to continue the discussion on affordable housing experience did you email them okay Jeff you'll have something to put up in just one second however the break did anybody have any additional thoughts or ideas about moving forward yes I do why are we doing this I I don't I just had

[100:01] to kind of back up and one thought I had was just if I put myself in the role of an affordable housing developer whether it's the housing agency of BHP or another of not-for-profit or a for-profit affordable housing developer the idea of someone independent who we don't really know without kind of that direction or khun's at a minimum consent of City Council's contacting the residents could be could be deeply not received well I mean these are people that if you put yourself in the role of developer they're cashing a check from these residents every month then they have a certain baseline of whatever their relationship is with those tenants of how they interact and they have times I mean a big part of that management is managing tenants satisfaction some of which are reasonable and some of which are really not you know tenant expectations of affordable housing some

[101:00] of which it's just it's it's it's not reasonable you're not you know for $1,200 a month or $1500 a month you're not going to get granite countertops and you know whirlpool tubs that but people some kids sometimes ask for that and so to risk any kind of further disruption and people coming into that I don't know how that would be received I don't know quite how to tackle that or a few if that's worth the risk if you will about that sure so the impetus for this was I would like to add one more thing too before we clarify the impetus of it because I kind of did something similar was just step back from it and sometimes I think we get into a process and we start rolling with that process and so when we step back and we take a look yes we collected all of this information but as we move forward into 2019 and it appears that

[102:02] what we're trying to do is wrap this up and check a box right and I guess the larger question is is it necessary and for what purpose so if we're not going to get the people to the table which maybe the developers or the partners or stakeholders because we're not sanctioned by the city or supported by the city to do this this effort in this organization is this the best use of our time is this the direction that we want to go or is this information tabled and we focus on something that is within the purview of our work plan and goals and we start to collect or put our energy and effort towards that I guess that's kind of what I paused into and I don't know that it needs a direct answer but it's just let's take a breath pause on it for a second and see what comes up from that so what

[103:09] this all came from as well and the thing that has sort of continued to drive me is twofold this was the very first question we asked is the affordable how is the affordable housing program truly affordable or are we losing people who were supposed to be taken care of okay so it's positive that first question is that something that residents could answer or is that something that we'd be collecting data through city or do you see them saying okay so then go into the next one and one of our thoughts on that exact question you just asked how how do we gather that data was to have an exit survey and that was where the whole we might have to make a suggestion the staff thing came from was

[104:00] that might have been a recommendation of ours to staff to ask that all of our affordable housing partners have an exit survey so we know because right now we don't know why people are leaving necessarily if it is in fact a you know what an ami goes up and the rents go up with that does that drive people that we don't actually have that information Jeff gave us some I think from about sixty some percent of what we do know but that isn't a specific you know that's just a thing that those partners do on their own accord it's not mandated by the city anything like that that's just willing information that they're giving us yeah so that was that was one of the main questions my second point and keeping focused on this is I don't know a whole lot about the affordable

[105:00] housing living experience personally and I think it's pretty important as this board functions that we hear from that group of people and not just on the negative side when they came to us to tell us you know that they can't handle the increases when ami goes up and we've already seen a great improvement from that experience with the 30 to 60 day notice for for rent increases so the second part is really just I want to know more I want to know more about that experience we just talked about having some homeless advocates and homeless people here to tell about that experience because that's another experience I don't know a lot and wouldn't we have this time that we don't have to be working on the bigger issues I think it's important that we age with those aspects of the community we don't know a lot about so for me this is still an important process so what I hear from you are two things getting to

[106:01] know the affordable living experience for the individual that's in affordable housing and the desire to understand why people would exit the program okay so we have two reasons Judy do you want to add to a reason sure I'll approach it from a little bit different perspective I believe everyone on the board and Jeff and Cory agreed that we're all interested in affordable housing and we're all interested in engagement like we see that as really part of what we do people came to our meetings as far as I know unsolicited more than once with a fair amount of people who had stories about their concerns about rising costs and amenities that may or may not be reflected of a larger group and again we don't really know that I've gotten to

[107:02] know some affordable housing providers who I think they're great we went on this tour and we saw some great places and I believe actually the city wants to know if there are some glitches in affordable housing that can be remedied because the city certainly doesn't want to be building affordable housing that the people who need it most can't afford to live in so we so all we're trying to do is just see what's happening out there and give providers a chance give when we get into this later we'll talk about what we had in mind for the meeting and we had in mind asking maybe one of the people who led our tour to talk about affordable housing a bit so they can talk about all the great things that are happening that we can agree with and also hear from people about they're good there may be people there may be people who come and say simply I am so grateful to have affordable housing thank you so much city of Boulder right I don't know

[108:00] what to expect but I think it's really worthwhile to find out and I actually feel it's our obligation because the people came to talk to us trusted us as a place where they could go to be heard and I just think we have an obligation to pursue it the I was gonna pull up the draft that we just threw together and what we changed at the end of it there I think I mean I fall on two sides here I recognize I do leave its bolder I'm a Libra okay I do recognize your concern and I do have questions based on the intent of the meeting and I think there's a maybe

[109:02] a little bit after listening to you just now speaking I do think that I recognize the concern and I can see that we don't want this to turn into tit-for-tat or a back-and-forth between you know tenants and providers let's say right we want to bring in I think there was a little bit of a feeling to me in the letter the way that it was drafted that it was and and we kind of got into this a little bit like what do we what is that that purpose of pulling it forward I think this last little line that we put in did soften that somewhat but even so hearing Mike's concerns I feel like there may be good reason to look at the body of it a little bit but maybe we should just put it up and kind of look at it as it exists now I value the fact that we

[110:04] started this process I think and that would be Mike in a sense my counter and I do feel like we want to bring closure and I think it's worth offering another opportunity for people who have put in put in before to hear from us what we found where we feel that we kind of have landed on it just get feedback from us and I do agree it's slow at the moment so to speak in some ways and I think the opportunity to get in front of the public and hear what they having their concerns and hopefully be able to really pull out as we said here if I can pull this thing up real quick both the you know I mean as we said we want to look at the aspects of this program that are working well and they're serving affordable housing

[111:00] residents and kind of wrap up also things that we see where there's room for improvement and just to get our feet on the ground a little bit better around what that means you know some of its the 30 60 a thing that was one thing that was right off the bat really clear we all got into it but what are we bringing out of this now at the end of the day and I don't think that we put that down anywhere so I think that meeting would just be an opportunity for us to get ourselves to that point where we're ready to say here are the findings in that in that way so I think that's kind of the the goal of this in a way is to say what are the findings what have we gotten to after however many months it was since we had that April or whenever that first meeting was he's got it from your questions about what you'd like to know and I can't disagree with any of those one that jumped out to me is how do we know that affordable housing isn't deplorable housing in the experience of

[112:03] the residents and I don't know that some part of the affordability piece by my observation is it's driven by the area median income the a.m. is and and it's a it's a metric template if you will that overlays the fairly state or not to say that that's right or it's fair and then there's some percentage of that that's based on their income and the read burdens where it goes above 30% or certainly approaches 50% for some people this is um it certainly brings some without it without a doubt I mean that's I think that's undeniable if we in our engagement gone out to any of the if we engaged in all of the various developers to kind of gotten their perspective of those dynamics or maybe even just among staff I think a like for example Shelley it's probably very very tuned into that and others and in the staff about that

[113:00] as far as I know aside from our tour not really no and this was supposed to be again sort of that calling out of all the people involved on every level of affordable housing including the developer developers who would be interested in showing their perspective about how affordable housing has become what it is yeah Judy go ahead okay so first of all that sentence I love I think it's great I also wanted to remind everyone that we've already had some accomplishments in this effort with all our meetings because we winnowed it down to four areas that we thought we wanted to pursue on our own and two have already been taken care of you know because the people in affordable housing affordable housing residents spoke to us staff did pick up on our interest in

[114:02] changing 30 days notice to sixty days notice and right away has already done that so that's been accomplished partly because we were here and the concerns that people had in Boulder Junction about parking we did refer that to the boulder Junction access district parking Commission and and and provided a direct link with the people who had concerns to go talk to them so we've already accomplished some things already and you know as far as I'm concerned we can go ahead and talk about this sentence I think is great so I want your you're buy-in still that's whether or not this is important enough to move forward with because I think that is important as a board that if you see a place for our time that's more worthwhile I want to have that discussion personally I think this is one that I do

[115:00] want to know more about so my buy-in is I think it's worthwhile I think there's lots to still be done in this realm I had a couple thoughts one is there's a little bit of a break I think between the quantifiable data and qualitative data in a sense that we'll be collecting if we have this meeting and just to recognize that this is a qualitative informational type of situation and the data that we really want in some ways the things you're talking about like how many people are leaving you know those are pieces that aren't going to be accomplished I don't believe through through this process right and we couldn't hope for that so I just want to kind of say I think it's valuable I think we need to recognize that it's it's qualitative findings that we're kind of looking for and that we're trying to get to the other piece is and I think this is to maybe address your concern my guess that it might be

[116:01] something that we want to consider to also reach out to these developers people who are that we're supposedly inviting here but we haven't necessarily reached out to directly in this conversation that we've had and of course yes we have public meetings but I think it might be worth our while to also put a brief letter to them a slight variation on this that just invites them to the process and explains to them more clearly what we're trying to achieve by having them there so that we get that feedback because we need it from both sides if if this is what we're really looking at doing manufactured housing we we had a couple of owners here I think there were two or three mm-hmm but if the situation was reversed if we only went to the developers and didn't go to the residents that would be sort of like let's count the the money that votes so to speak as opposed to the tenants vote in it's an important voice to not

[117:02] leave out as well as the staff I think from from the city that would seem to be accessible for just a just a discussion about some of those dynamics - and - including that process yeah our intent was definitely to allow staff or actually requests and stuff would give a presentation of very brief presentation about affordable housing what's been going on in the community so everyone has a basis of knowledge before the discussion is open to everyone in the public because I don't think we talk about what we've accomplished enough we're regionally the best city when it comes to affordable housing I don't think that gets talked about enough so is that your understanding to Jeff that you'd have a presentation for April 24th if that's what you would like to support what you're trying to accomplish absolutely okay when I kind of look over

[118:01] the list that both of you have expressed as far as one question being how could we better you know if there was anything else to serve our time with we don't have any projects on our work plan at the moment affordable living experience is important to understand and to hear more from the residents if they want to participate I am concerned about both the buy-in from our partners when we're not sanctioned by the city in this motion I'm also kind of concerned by your statement of the city the city wants to know about the glitches in affordable housing because if they wanted to know I feel like they direct us to hold those meetings so I'm a little concerned about making that

[119:00] assumption that that I guess we would know what they want from us in that piece I do believe we can create a trusted place to be heard for these individuals to come forward I think it is an incredible opportunity that we have this kind of time available to have people come and speak I I think it'll be even more interesting if we can put some incentives with it and we have a clear something I was thinking about as well is in the in the bigger picture of this though as we click this information you know I guess just being aware of what we're gonna do with it afterwards and how we're gonna kind of move and maybe suss it out or see if anything else presents itself but it's not that I'm opposed to it and of course my buy-in is

[120:04] on the affordable housing and especially the experience of it I just want to make sure that we're understanding what we're moving forward on and being clear on that because when they all show up here are we asking questions are we sitting at a table or we present the you know we're gonna present some information but the end then are we just gonna ask them all to share their information and we're just gonna sit here and collect it and and you know so just being aware of that that portion of it that makes sense yeah just to give some context I think it should be pretty similar to the manufactured housing testimony then in my mind where we have follow-up questions last follow-up questions we're just assessing now to associate out information that I think staff would like to know that I think Council would like to know and we're providing that

[121:00] yeah that is an assumption maybe they don't want to know anything about the affordable housing I'm just saying experience you couldn't have just undertake a private conversation with with a couple of council members to kind of get a sense of the tone of that I mean why have you instead of you know a formal letter that you can seem like they're pretty accessible and and to say to say that in a way that people we'll say something orally that they might not want to put in an email or other way and you can kind of pick up on the tone of that receptiveness for that but two council members does not make it counsel and I'm not suggesting that I'm not suggesting trying to take some non open forum but but why not in the same way when people do i five fighting corporations do communication so they'll go out and they'll test that and they'll go look to people that are influential

[122:00] in the community as a bellwether and informally say you know has just been talked about before has been done do they have certain believes do they think it's something to explore or not and based on that discussion in your interpretation of that discussion have a better sense of but also the whole side of that is that as a representation representative board of the people sometimes I think we also are getting in front of potentially ideas that council is not aware of so it's a tree it's a tree I see both sides of it does that make sense it's just I think we and also a couple of things that you've brought up is that originally I thought what we were doing was wrapping a one-year plan up and presenting some of our success stories and kind of checking the box on this but what I'm hearing is that we're potentially also opening up more possibilities so well this is just sort of in my mind it is the culmination of

[123:00] what we've been doing by hearing the experience I don't intend to necessarily pick apart every single thing and start acting on each issue we already put to bed that we can't form an ami committee because we're not gonna be solving AMI this is in my mind just I want to hear the experience I want to put a line in the sand saying that we did this so that everyone can look back and say how's an advisory board actually did something making the community so what happens if somebody comes in chairs something or several people come and share something and they want action from us then we say very clearly that we can't mess you say we're going to do anything actionable in the near future but at least their information is heard I want to add something if I can I want to remind us all how we even got to the possibility of a public hearing we winnowed the public input we got down

[124:00] first to 13 or 14 or 15 items and then we went at it further to four items and we decided those were just with Jeff's help those were just for the city manager not for council they were items it's the city manager the city staff could or would handle if directed to do so by the city manager and that in order for us to make a recommendation to the city manager and there were only two remaining remaining issues and it was on data to be collected and on doing an exit survey I think something I can't remember exactly I think those were the two and it can be done without having a public hearing first so that's how the public hearing idea started and we were just going to be doing it about costs of rising rents and rising amenities but then we decided it would be more positive if we did it on the whole affordable housing experience and so that's how it's grown to where we are now and I just wanted to recontextualize

[125:01] that for everyone like how we got to this place and that's absolutely great and I thank you for contextualizing it I'm just curious are we wrapping this up or are we starting something new or are we wrapping a portion and starting a portion I just want to look at this as a listening session in my mind and is that clear in our letter to RP to the people it's just a listening session we're wrapping up a portion celebrating whatever successes we have that's a great question I would say that my hope is that although we may want to bring some conclusion to this in a sense we're never wrapping anything on me so I'm not worried about whether we're

[126:01] wrapping this up if something arises that needs attention and seems like a valuable place for us to spend our time and energy then we will decide as a board to spend our time and energy there and if it doesn't and I think you know this is partially Mike's point maybe is like are there better places for us to be spending our time and energy than doing this wrap up in a public manner you know that's not something that we've discussed we've been kind of rolling down the road of this and Mike's brought that up I think it's a valid point so the question is do we are we ready to make this decision on this or are we decided we wanted and the key point in there that so this is what I was trying to get to you is that if we choose that we're wrapping a portion up and we're also listening and keeping remaining open then what we are saying is that although our directive was to work only on work plan items we are remaining open to working on other things and I think

[127:00] that has to be a conscious decision by all of us at the board that we are choosing to actively continue to work on things that are not on the work plan my response to that would be community engagement around affordable housing issues is it part of our mandate it is what we are supposed to be doing so yes I also believe that in the City Council's session where they talked about the different when we had that study session about have and people talked about had I believe at least five city council members because I took notes on it at the time I don't quite remember but many City Council members although they clearly wanted us to work on the work plan they also did not want to stifle our innovative ideas and they just wanted it under control I don't feel this is out of control this is the decision that I wanted to make

[128:01] sure we are clear we are making as we move forward Adam and Michael do you want to add anything I think Jack said it perfectly this is always gonna be ongoing I just want to make sure that with this time that we have that is very valuable we use that as a way to engage the community which is a big part of what we're supposed to be doing and I think this is an excellent way of doing it around a specific group of the community could everybody remind me didn't do the council ask us to do this they didn't ask us to do this and it seems from the discussion this evening that the engagement has the potential to be somewhat disruptive to different interested parties if not maybe a little slower a little more carefully orchestrated and I don't know if April 24th needs to be a hard date to do that

[129:03] because we're stepping outside of that directive of council and so in stepping outside of the council work plan it would strike me there would be prudent if the decision was to do that to go a little slower and maybe get a little engagement from council as well as you know because community engagement it strikes me that engages everyone not just the certainly interested people and certainly favorite people but just you know that everyone but certainly in this case council to say that is what I heard from that from the study session was a minority of council were okay with stepping outside of the work plan and most were would like to see have minor and again this is just my interpretation and I could be wrong there are many times today but they would like to be kind of inside that zone if you will if that's the case

[130:02] we can just forget with the next several meetings in because we don't have anything that council wants us to work on so I'm happy to have a few ones days off but I'd rather spend that time doing something important it's not important but I think the motivation seems to be more urgent and and the engagement of us that you know there's an engagement that you've already done a lot of work and you're pretty invested you know I'm just suggesting that if there's some engagement from counsel to get some perspectives about where that about where that's dinner made sense point that sometimes you know you need to think independently and proceed anyway Jeff do you have any input for us on this topic well it's clear to me that there's not a common

[131:02] understanding of the purpose I mean it ranges from it could be a very targeted public hearing about two ideas as you pointed out Judy which may have been the starting point to a general listening session to learn more about the affordable housing experience to help basically a professional development kind of opportunity to you know opportunities to try and identify glitches in the system I mean there's not a clarity of purpose which i think is a primary reason there's such a struggle to try and figure this one out so for for me the discussion should be really let's figure out what what two or three things do we want to accomplish and then we can design a meeting and calendar it and communicate about it to accomplish those things because there's so many different ideas about what could be

[132:00] accomplish that it's challenging and I would add what could be accomplished and what's the best way to proceed in it yeah because I see both sides on this and I don't think it's an either/or and I hear you on the utilizing our time to the best of our ability and I'm also sensitive about being clear on this and also how do we proceed with buy-in from all interested parties because I am concerned about our partners and if I ran Boulder housing partners or sisal do how would I want to be participant to participate in it or what if and I mean if we're stirring the pot so to say you know like and I but I don't feel like it's sanctioned by the city and I'm not not participating in it how does that go so there's a portion of me first and

[133:02] foremost I absolutely buy in what you're saying Jacque I think that it is in the mandate and I do believe that our public engagement is so I'm completely bought in on that and I would like to see our time utilized on all of this I'm just curious and kind of what Jeff just said is I think we're struggling on this because we're just not able to say this is these are the three things that we're going to wanting to accomplish in this and and I think it's fuzzy and I'm not really sure how to create clarity around it how about if we start with each person saying what they perceive it to get out of it see if that gets any clarity would that help at all like what each person here thinks would be worthwhile I mean I'm gonna go back to and I don't

[134:02] again I don't know we don't have an agenda structured and for what that is looking like how much time we're giving to this public participation piece I think there's a huge number of open-ended questions I would still say that there does seem to be a little bit of a vacuum of work for us moving forward at least in the immediate and I'm hoping that maybe Jeff will give us some clarification on that as we get through tonight's meeting a little bit so there's a part of me that's just gonna say you know I want to continue having engagement with the public and having the public feel like they can come into a meetings and they are invited into meetings for engagement whether this is specific personally for me in this instant whether this is specific to affordable housing issues

[135:01] which we're trying to kind of this one is wrapping into that process that we've been going through or whether it's just more broadly open saying hey here we are we're really trying to bring public in I mean I'd love to hear about all kinds of things I'd love to hear about Alpine balsam I'd like to get feedback on that I mean there are plenty of pieces that we could we could get public participation on so from that perspective I'm like no let's have a meeting let's get the public let's do whatever we reach we can to get people to show up and and from that side I'm just that's where I say yes let's do it I don't have specific questions in my mind around the affordable housing structure that I'm saying let's try to tease these out and get more clarity on that particularly so I would I'm open to hearing what are those things that we're

[136:01] specifically going to try to get there as well you're hitting on something there that I just all of a sudden thought of as like you know with the affordable housing issue when we were talking parking and the bundling of services we had an issue manufactured housing had a direct issue they were here they were codified around something and they were affordable housing is vast and you make a great point that we do public engagement every time and we would hope we're gonna try to figure out how to incentivize that individuals will come all the time and want to talk about their experiences under any of those but we need to get if we're gonna have it be specifically about affordable housing and how it should have three specific issues we're trying to drilled in into and when you talk about exit plans well that's not really something they can do that would

[137:01] have to be in a partnership meeting that so if we move that over to some type of a half hour we're meeting with partnership individuals that would be on that agenda but what are the three things we want to drill down to specifically in affordable housing that we would incentivize individuals to come for that we would utilize the gifts that we were kind of talking about that make sense but then again you know and and I'm open to it and I think we have buy-in not so sure about Michael that we would be moving forward on an engagement piece that we all that so far a majority of us I believe believe it is in our mandate and is something we want to comfortably move forward on along those lines it seems to me that as we've said there are things that we've already taken off the table and so of

[138:02] course we're always open to public engagement if somebody walks in they still have that issue they want to talk about it we want to hear about it but at the same time in this particular ask that we're making I think it does behoove us to focus that in say so these are the pieces that we found already that we have interest in getting more information from that we're seeing now obviously somebody can come in who has a different point in different perspective and wants to bring up something new that happens it is always going to happen but just from if we're going to do this I would say we give it more Direction more clarity around what the ask is as we're saying come on in and engage with us we're trying to learn something more specifically because we've already taken many things off the table and in some ways I think this is this piece of saying well we're asking you to come in here and talk to us about stuff that we've already decided to take off the table and does the public know that do they know what we've already feel like

[139:01] is not you know something that we're gonna engage with outside of the ways we've already engaged with it so I I feel like some some definition so I feel like if the board agrees to drill down the issues would be rising costs and amenities I would suppose but I would lean a different direction my opinion is that unsolicited we had a number of people come in the majority of their concerns were rising costs rent and amenities but I don't know myself is that representative is that a small group is everyone happy or 2% of people unhappy whatever so I'm just interested in open-ended gathering information about the affordable housing experience from developers providers managers owners affordable resident home owners and and tenants I'm just gathering

[140:01] information and seeing where that goes I would say that if we're trying to do that and gather some quantitative information then may be abused us to take this structure something a questionnaire feedback get a systematic in place that's going to actually have people answer specific questions about specific things and get us information on those things we're trying to get information on so in a way if we want to try to drive this towards a more you know quantitative result we need to give it form and so the question would be how are we going to do that at this point it seems very open-ended to me and I don't know if with the potential risks that have been expressed if that is the best way to to do that so I'm gonna pause for a second and just say we have a time 20 we are dramatically behind

[141:02] on our agenda items which i think is okay because this obviously needs to be worked out and we should do that I'm I'm curious we've got the have operating procedures and agreements what we could consider is dealing with the March meeting plan and then possibly considering bundling the procedure ones until the March of the retreat or something along those lines since they're not vital and then hit the work plan and staff updates that feel like something as we continue this conversation for a bit more if we agree to maybe give this like 10-15 more bit minutes and see where we're at with it and and if we can't come to some something that's feeling really solid and good we decide how to move on from there and recognizing that there's enough non clarity that we need more

[142:03] something around this and maybe it's a maybe this is a fantastic thing to have facilitated at a retreat you know because we were talking about what to put under the retreat so that's on that table in the procedures and agreements to a future meeting and giving this about 10 more minutes with some form of next step new business looking at our March 20th retreat and handling work plan and staff updates so I have a question I tried looking in all the old minutes and all the meetings and stuff and I know that the meetings that we had on the second Wednesday of each month were from six to nine clear straight out but I never saw we voted an end time on that these meetings the fourth meeting of each month and so I'm just curious as well why don't we just go go through it you

[143:02] know go through the agenda is and and try and finish you mean with no end time well I you know like I objected out having it end time like I think we should have enough priority in our approach in preparation to begin and finish on time and one thing I've seen here and it's not the first meeting I've been in where I'm coming to a meeting and I'm not reasonably prepared because I have nothing to prepare with and so therefore we're really not prepared to have a meaningful discussion and therefore we're tabling things and burning time and this is something that we're here we'd like to get behind every one I think we have a collegiality that's wonderful and we've established that well we're really not prepared to do that because we don't have this clarity of purpose and intent on a relatively straightforward piece and we want to do it we really in our hearts there well but it seems like we're not as far as a common objection and you

[144:03] could speak out loud for mine what's counsels reaction to that you know we're going we're stepping outside we're kind of going off pista a little bit here and in that's okay I get that but why don't we consider the fact of asking a little bit informally to take someone's temperature to say is this a little bit off pista or are we way out of bounds here because we it's clear that occupancy would be way out of bounds I don't know where this is in terms of calibrating that and we could do that I mean if one of our roles is to go out and listen why don well then why don't we listen and sometimes we have to listen to things that we don't really like to hear how would you suggest proceeding I would suggest it I mean I'd love to support the engagement I think it's important I think all the things that I mentioned and all the reasons about affordable housing are absolutely important but going about it maybe it's trying to do it a little bit too fast

[145:00] and getting it lined up so you have all the pieces to do it if we don't have to have a hard April 24th deadline then why not consider going a little not just slower but really improving the quality and going better to do that because we've spent a great deal of time and we haven't really reached a meaningful conclusion and yet we all want to we want to support that but we'd like to do it and mitigate some of the potential conflict and have clarity and intent to do that thank you anybody else I think that I'm an agreement to a certain degree that there's a definition here and a clarity that I don't see and exactly what we're asking and it's it's

[146:00] a broad piece and I think we could you know to me it's a matter of how are we gonna structure this meeting it's not a question for me of whether we should have the meeting or not or whether we should solicit the input I mean I'm clear on that one I don't have that I don't feel we're far off piste here so from that perspective I don't have any questions but I do just have questions about how we are planning to roll it out and so the question for me is what is that what's the format if this is going to be how we're gonna structure it are we giving specific ask or not and that's the only concern I have do you want to proceed well I think if we're gonna do right as much as there's a discomfort of the tabling of things and not completing them I would say we probably should put a proposal forward

[147:00] that says we're gonna do this with this meeting these are the questions we're gonna be trying to get the public to respond to us on specifically and it's gonna have this much time in that meeting and this is this is what we're doing this is the format and and decide if we want to try to get something more quantitative or if we're just gonna go for a qualitative field and get more input how do you want to proceed tonight as I said I would make a motion that we table it we come back with a structured plan for how we're gonna roll this meeting out Adam Rudy well after we discussed the letters we were going to tell you what our plan was for how we suggest the meeting run and we haven't done that yet so I don't know if you want to hear that or not I'm not in favor of tabling things that's my personal pet peeve is that I think we table table table and it stops us from moving forward and

[148:00] and yes so I would you know maybe Adam can talk about what we had planned to do at the meeting a little bit and then see how that feels to everyone and use that as a point to continue the discussion at this point I don't even know what we're talking about so what we've specifically what the ask is I don't know what the ask is now so we haven't agreed on that as a board right I don't think we can talk about presentation at this point okay my suggestion is we come back to you with very specific things to vote on you vote for or against them and we move this forward or we go okay that's fine but I would like to just present what we'd already decided because I'm fine to bring that up for a vote and have people vote on that so we don't have to do I mean what was what we have what we were going to present to you tonight and I guess what I am now presenting tonight can we pause for a second just a matter

[149:00] of course because there was some discussion around a motion to table do we want to pause for a second and and see if anybody actually wants to put a motion on the table to table it or do we want to move into what would be a proper process there can anybody interject at any point and say I'd like to motion to table this yes that's how I would I mean you are operating on a formal request for recognition basis so I would say if someone wants to make that motion they should just go ahead and try and do it and see if it gets seconded I'd like to make a motion we table this to much the discussion of engagement until March 20th I second all in favor you your procedures would typically call for a discussion once the motion was made okay all in favor for yes Judy no okay I would have a

[150:07] question in tabling it I'm not sure if it's useful to everyone to have Adam and I be coming up with another proposal because we've come up this is one of I mean since you were the ones who are not comfortable with it maybe you guys should come up with a proposal for what the ask is or with it I'm I'm happy to have it open-ended and just let people say what they want to say about the experience I don't want it to be about affordable housing as an issue for the city I want it to be about the affordable housing experience for for constituents and providers but I don't have a specific gas so I'm not going to be helpful in coming up with any of what you who are not happy with it want so maybe there should be a committee of two people to do that I suppose my feeling

[151:05] on that is this is a suggestion coming from the engagement committee and I'm essentially in the same boat as you are I have not been diving into this to say oh here's exactly what I'd like to do with it I think if it was opened up to me I'd put on the board other things that we could also engage with in that meeting time potentially that we might find to be you know more interesting to me so I think that again I think it's a matter of almost sequence like in a sense if you had that thing of how you expected to see this run out I think it would have been good to get into that and have that on our plate to see what that looked like and exactly what we were proposing doing so I don't know that it you know I don't know that I'm gonna be

[152:01] able to write anything for this as far as a proposal to do it and I don't know that anybody else is either so may be left to you guys to to bring that back to us to the engagement committee to do that I see coming up with very specific motions we either vote YES on them or we don't that's where we're at at this point it's the only way it's can move forward I understand but is it possible that we come up with the same motions that we would have brought up tonight yes okay got it okay okay now we're gonna move on to new business March 20th meeting and I know we put this on the agenda Jeff but can you help me remember what we were needed to discuss on the 20th so the

[153:01] discussion we had at the agenda committee was to take - to begin with the Community Survey results there's a presentation and discussion opportunity there which I think Adam you referenced tonight and I think you've all had a chance we may have had a chance to review that which highlighted affordable housing is a big issue in the community as well surprise absolutely no one to use that data drawn from a statistically valid survey to frame discussion of Alpine balsam the Alpine balsam working what do we call them liaisons are having a joint board meeting tomorrow night they've there it would lead scheduled a report out from that experience and so in the agenda committee we discussed also having a staff presentation on

[154:02] Alpine balsam and then a not an a different discussion for you all that would be structured more as a roundtable down in the study session kind of approach where you would have the opportunity to engage and wrestle with the trade-offs and the issues that been raised in the community and through the visioning and discussion process that's been having that people have had already as a way of deeply engaging on an individual project a city project a high profile very important city project that you will be asked most likely to give a recommendation on Council to so that you'd have the opportunity to kind of do some homework think it through have a discussion with each other with the staff so that when you do have a chance to make a recommendation you have a basis to build off of also to give a chance for this new board to really dive

[155:00] into something we haven't had a chance to really roll up your sleeves in something concrete it's not many meetings have provided that and it's possible that later this year there will be several very meaningful high profile items that you will be asked to be giving recommendations on community benefit large lots you know sub community planning which I think if I remember right Adam and Mason when we were talking and one of the ideas was this is an opportunity to get some practice working on that to on something that we when you may not have the opportunity in the future to have two or three meetings on something before you're asked to give a recommendation the first one that you tackled right when the board was formed ad use was something that you acknowledged in your sort of after-action reports that you wanted to figure out how to do that a little better to serve the council and the community a little better so this is an opportunity to kind of tackle another one with better form yeah I mean it was

[156:05] a better we wanted a better process that honored everybody to be able to really be informed and kind of bounce ideas off of each other absolutely yeah so the bulk of that meeting we didn't put a time on it but judging from what else we have would be at least an hour and 20 hour 30 minutes where it's kind of a workshop where you get to you know bounce things around ask some questions of each other try and identify how you might want to approach a recommendation without having to actually make one without that pressure so no decision or anything needed from us just a reminder of that's kind of the structure of this one I do think when we were talking the three of us it was hey let's run this by the board and see if that's how they'd like to use the time plus by then we could

[157:01] potentially have our new members correct because aren't they interviewed on the twelfth and decided upon yeah on the 19th that is a possibility right we thought was possibilities so it would also be a great opportunity to integrate potential new board members into because we know at the trial by fire for the first Adu discussion was like that this would be an opportunity for us to do that differently under a recommend something that would be giving a recommendation on how does structuring a meeting like that feel for everybody in the table yeah it's crystal no you go first good it feels warm and engaging with the supportive counsel to me

[158:00] I already said I'm sorry it's great I'm looking forward to getting into Alpine balsam and starting to really look at how we as a board vision implementation and moving that forward so I think it's good yeah I I do too so we're all in agreement do we're all in agreement that will have March 20th meeting on the work plan with that April 10th retreat retreat what do you want to do with that time so I recall the Corey asked us to give her our ideas where did you get a lot of ideas No so there were just my ideas okay so I suggested that it be fairly informal and that if possible if there

[159:02] is any food it'd be buffet because there'll be new members and so we can all sort of you know Steven talk and stuff and that if you're looking at it as three hours my suggestion was that the first hour be more in-depth introductions where each person gets to talk a little bit about themselves in general and their background since we'll be meeting some new people but also talk about what our particular passion is for housing issues and why we're here that sort of thing and after one go-around people can ask questions if they want whatever that the second hour be perhaps facilitated and be a SWOT analysis of the strengths weaknesses and opportunities and threats as we see them for the board that would be really helpful to the new people and also help us and that and that at the end of it

[160:00] there would be an action plan I think that is what I said let me look [Music] I can't remember I said I did say what I wanted the third hour to be about maybe I have it here first hour into the second arson oh yeah and the third hour be about the letter start talking about the letter that we want to send to Council at the end of June when they're on break those are my thoughts for the content I would support that idea the only thing that comes to my mind because when I look at our agenda tonight and we look at D which we've talked about already is I think that a really valuable and important piece for this retreat would be to engage with procedures potentially and I haven't

[161:03] fully thought that through but I just looked down that list I think most of these are needed and we don't have definition around them yet and I'd really love to dedicate some time to to getting into that mm-hmm I'd like to use it that way I love the idea of you know the first half first hour being informal in introductions and asking questions and introducing each other I really and I almost kind of feel like taking the facilitator and working on the operating procedures and agreements I'm a little hesitant that's why only because I feel like that I don't know I'm open to it depending on how the facilitator handles handles it and I love the idea of because we'd be

[162:00] diving into operating procedures to tackle how we want to address a letter our yearly and our half would be awesome and maybe even the letter and how we want to make recommendations moving forward to just being clear on the recommendation piece yeah we've never sussed out the hole I know already vote you already know type stuff so that that would be an important topic overall I think there's definitely enough substance here to have it retreat if that is a major part of the question and I fully support a facilitator doing bonding activities warm fuzzies where we get to do the trust fall or something

[163:00] along those lines I think if we could combine the trust fall with with hot coals in Boulder would never be hot stones I know how that conflicts with the green vision I just want to throw one thing out there's a lot I mean three hours great introductions there's a lot on there and with the facilitator also hopefully we can in the lead up to this maybe narrow it and focus it on you know

[164:03] what we see are the most important pieces of the list that's here somehow if that's what we're gonna do but that would be my suggestion is also let's just not try to put too much in it's a great point yes so maybe what Adam and I can do is help narrow it down on our next and then in our next meeting on March 20th come up with an agenda for it and see how everybody feels about it I just a suggestion if you're having a ratite retreat facilitator and planning board does does that they'll often start out by asking each individual what you hope to get out of this retreat and I just think that's really very helpful for structure the retreat and I just wanted to add the SWOT analysis why I'm

[165:00] interested in that it's just a way of looking at where you've been last year what has worked really well what you might want to change for the future and I think that's a good idea for any organization to do on a yearly basis just take a look at what's working what's not working and what we can all do about it what struck me that the SWOT analysis it's just you know an extraordinary effort to go through in a process but mindful of Jaques comment about its that could be a four-hour deal to do that and especially with new people that may not have a longitudinal perspective and context of the board in the context of that whether that would be is it something we could commit to at an another at another three hour apiece that'd be worthwhile to do that's an interesting perspective to and I'm also

[166:00] curious I might be answering my own question if you know cuz swat means strengths weaknesses opportunities and threats and honestly I feel like our first year was kind of a and we're getting our sea legs now yeah it was a mulligan totally a mulligan and now that we're getting our sea legs I would really support doing something like that on our second year and really because then we'll have some more girth under us and we'll have the new members and we'll be seven so it'll be interesting to see see from that but it might be interesting to include so that we can create the baseline for a SWOT for next year to create maybe a couple of goals that would help inform a SWOT for the next year does that make sense something along those lines but it you

[167:01] know open for discussion but something that creates the baseline that we can watch through 2019 and then in March of the next year look over possibility okay so we in agreement then that Adam go ahead Jeff I see your crinkle just going to suggest more formally perhaps then this is going the boards will appoint and Council appoints a retreat committee or solicits input comes up with an agenda brings it to a business meeting discusses and approves that sounds to me the direction you're heading as you want to speak to how a Planning Board handles making the agenda for their retreats and count your experience with the council if there's anything you have to support this effort

[168:01] of figuring out what to spend the time on well Planning Board there you know just like this board there's some things that you do want to tackle but we work with the retreat facilitator and it depends some years it's working together and other years it's you know this last year we had Robin burden who's a facility a facilitator a Regan bird who's a facilitator on housing issues and equity issues and then we talked about working together and working through issues that come up and and every year it seems to be a little bit of a different emphasis for the retreat and especially when you get to new members so we excuse me we always excuse me do you have a did you guys form a committee to help come up with your

[169:01] agenda you know on council they always have an agenda committee for the retreat a retreat committee but on planning board I don't I can't quite recall that but we discuss it and then we have a facilitator and then that person poles everybody and then gets back and says here's some of the things we've come up with mm-hmm how does that work and that's what I can't remember what her name was that she did the yeah yeah so similar to the last time she reached up to everybody right mm-hmm yeah and then but it seems like too if our first years of Mulligan definitely focusing operations agreements the recommendation and the letter format it seems like we're all in agreement and definitely just want to add I can't help it if we feel if many people some people feel that the first year was a mulligan it really might be good to spend a little

[170:01] time talking about why people think that and what can be different I mean I just kind of thought I haven't been through a SWOT or at least if I have it's been a long time but but my feeling was hearing potentially the length and the depth especially with new members coming on but you know what this might be like I mean I do wonder if we can leave this to the facilitator of just saying you know is there a way to do a mini SWOT is there a way to do this in a in a manner that will be time sensitive and you know potentially will also engage with some of the pieces that we might be choosing to work on simultaneously so do we feel clear on this P you go ahead Michael you feel like you had some good I can feel all sorts of energy coming up II I'm gonna say from an equity perspective that Irish heritage Mulligan is a little

[171:00] sensitive [Laughter] I enter my formal apologies to the Irish okay so I think what I'm hearing Jeff is that we will contact a facilitator for it and that she could reach out to everyone and with also kind of a general understanding that we are interested in generally introductions the operation procedures and agreements and then help structuring our letter and recommendation formats and then kind of querying everybody about maybe strengths a mini or some form of a baseline for next year to really look back and reflect on a measure and then the just clarification when you say the letter

[172:00] and recommendation format to me that I thought process was the other word that came to mind is that really what you yes I'd say it's a process what you come up with how you come up with it yes okay right does that feel true for everybody okay nothing you know Judy yeah okay okay and then that so then the operator number 5d is being taken care of so we'll move into matters from the staff the well let me start with a few quick updates the manufacturer Housing Strategy that you considered went to council hopefully we incorporated your feedback in a way that you recognize if

[173:00] it's if it's something you're interested in if you haven't seen it there's the memo that went which was somewhat different than what you got in part thanks to your input and and you can always watch the the overview we need to watch the discussion in the study session and in essence the conclusion was to move forward with five develop five significant work items for prioritization those were paid rent stabilization infrastructure options manufactured housing community licensing being of a slightly higher priority than looking at the land use code and zone for mobile home communities and then energy efficiency was the fifth area as well as a list of several items that didn't rise the level work plan items but could be just move forward so that's the quick takeaway from that go back to

[174:00] council in july so it will come back to you either in May or in June at this point as was mentioned counselors in the midst of its annual appointments I just wanted to point out two things one is that with the addition of two new members expansion of the board so there will be three openings as you know there will be two people appointed two five-year terms and one person appointed to a three-year term to ensure that there aren't multiple or more than to anyone good time rotating off the board I will and Cory will send one of us will send you an email just asking for your thoughts on what would be most useful we what we did for you to onboard you in orient you some of it was probably more useful than other things so if you could give us your thoughts we'd appreciate it

[175:00] as we think about how to best support the new members so watch for that coming next couple days and if you could give us think back as to what you found most useful we would find that very helpful so then the other thing we had on the staff management staff was taking a look at the work plan as I think it was Judy [Music] yeah it's been a while since we put it out there and then as I mentioned to you in large part there's it's it's challenging because many of the the projects that Council is considering that involve housing issues don't have concrete schedules at the moment and so it's possible you'll get a crunch of several significant items all at once the other thing that is a little unclear is council study session about the hab they said well we need to define the questions we won't have to answer on these projects and they have not done that yet so neither the timing nor the

[176:02] specific questions are known which is part of the reason this has been a bit of a challenge with that said we've got the next three meetings including the retreat roughly blocked out with the question of April 24th at this point to be determined so I don't know if there are questions about what's sketched out there we covered the 20th there are a couple items on there that didn't fit into that overall roundtable discussion project-based discussion the public engagement approaches and framework ahead um I don't know if you want to speak to that and we've added the retreat agenda approval there's a third item which I'll mention which is we would like to know if you want an update the plans for the city-owned property at 30th and pearl that projects moving forward we can we can bring you an update in March or April yes I'm seeing

[177:04] okay we plan on that and work with the agenda committee to get that scheduled just real quick on the public engagement approaches the framework I think we covered that or we'll be continuing to cover that under the operating procedures and agreements okay I have a question Jeff yeah I was a little confused you know when you mentioned that council had said there's certain things they want to decide what particular questions they want had to answer I am concerned I guess that in their crush of so many things that they have to do that that will be forgotten and staff do something to ask them about so we were told this and we're anxious to participate in all these areas what are the questions I saw the project managers I think as you pointed out the crush of work and intensity of their

[178:02] effort that they're making it probably will lead to the standard approach which is boards are asked the same questions that we'll be moving forward to Council so I suspect as these projects forward what you'll see is a request for your thoughts on the items that staff is asking for input on so you feel comfortable about it that they'll just naturally sort of it'll work itself out yeah thanks I would like to offer a suggestion - I know you didn't participate and I don't know if I recall or not but one of the things that we did when we very first formed as a board as we all met for beers on a social hour and I think that once the appointments are made it would be awesome to schedule that again and have it's just meet for beers so I just want to put that out there because I thought it was when we were talking about the onboarding piece of it

[179:00] was one of the things that I found kind of cool with meeting up and socializing business we were Aaron told us because when I was I was like we should all go out for beers Aaron says as long as we don't talk about business we can have beers so yeah just want to bring that up is there anything else from Steph Cory did you have anything else no that's our list so let's spend a few minutes debriefing that was kind of a that was an intense meeting does anybody want to kind of just debrief and I just had one question I know we voted to table the discussion of the affordable housing experience meeting and it was tabled but we didn't actually vote on dispensing with Dee and I know I sent Krystal note and said does the Planning Board in their meetings at

[180:00] a certain time and she said they have an aspirational time but if it takes longer it takes longer and I know that different boards have different ways of operating about that but since we cut down our meetings from two a month to one a month I'm starting to have a concern about getting things done we've already tabled this we already have things we're going to be talking about at the next meeting and not only are we can be talking about de but we're gonna have be having to talk about the whole affordable housing experience and I'm I just am personally concerned about that we're just kicking the can down the road so I hear three things from you one wanting or desiring a longer discussion around our time sensitivity I'm hearing you question whether or not we've actually formally dispensed D and what we did with it and and you also brought up one other thing I was trying to remember what it was but

[181:00] we can start there with those true - so you seem like you want to talk a little bit more about the sensitivity of time so does anybody else have thoughts around time I think that fits pretty well under have operating procedures and agreements for a discussion great point okay anybody else want to add anything then I think it's a great point about adding this to operation agreements because I have many thoughts on that as well okay can I just clarify something Judy said planning board does not list times but some boards have aspirational times open space when I was on it had them and we always went over mainly cuz it was the director and his reports but that's not your problem

[182:00] Jeff you're very concise that was our little joke days I find fixed times appealing I find a creative sense of urgency to get to the point if you have one and sense of preparation to get through the agenda in the a lot of time and peace what's the understanding that sometimes you can go over with what other boards do is I'm respectful but somewhat indifferent to I think we have to decide what's right for us so we can expand this conversation during our retreat through your second apart yeah we moved to that to the retreat yes 5d so 5d was when we talked about does it and remember I asked you I said you're ok with it and said I'm fine that was the dispensing of the over to the retreat that's probably why I was slow to answer because I just didn't want to create

[183:00] another wave but okay I mean just to put my two cents in on this one right now I think I agree in general with having set times because I do think it does exactly what Mike saying and I think that's important for us to work on being concise in what we're trying to deliver what we're trying to get accomplished and bring it to the table in a clean package the other piece is I mean you know if we were - part of me says I would be open to saying do we want to have a motion to extend the meeting type of situation but I'd want a fixed time where we have the opportunity to have a motion to extend the meeting if we feel it's necessary and we could approach that here if we wanted to around these items but again I think we can dive into this because I know Adams got thoughts on it I have thoughts on it but we'll dive into the details on that as an item at the retreat so that we can get clear and have agreement on something as far as

[184:00] the time and then everybody feels like they can share is there anything else anybody would want to debrief about the calendar or the meeting yeah I just want to say my biggest takeaway for sure something Mike said really got me was what level of preparation we should be seeking when we're trying to decide on things and that made a lot of sense to me because where our discussion devolved is when we didn't have a lot of clarity around what we were talking about so we just have to be more willing to come to the table with specifics and willing to just call for votes on things and if they don't work out they don't work out that's fine there's always a room for a friendly amendment here and there but that's where our biggest problem still lies is trying to define maybe a much bigger problem than a single issue all

[185:02] at the same time so if we can't get more concise about what we're trying to specifically answer that should solve a whole lot of that away I'd add to that rate after we kind of closed that portion of the meeting and chose to table it I started thinking about the process on how it was presented and a part of me was curious it had we not gotten into the letters first and we had heard your plan I want I'm curious if that process would have felt different so like if you would have come out with this is the plan this is what my our ideas are and here the letters attached to it so I found that I was thinking about process again and again being a new board these things are new to all of us and in some of these although I could sense your frustration in this and I think it was frustrating for all of us because like Michael had said there was heart there and we were all wanted to move forward on it but it was so fuzzy and unclear so as we move

[186:01] forward on these and create clarity in our process of how we're doing it I think will will get much better at these things but I also think that's probably one of our if we're gonna go down the SWAT line one of our strengths is our ability to still set find some humor in it afterwards decompress a little bit and know that yes it was a frustrating process but that we'll get there we'll get there and and it is important and you matter Thanks the engagement team matters nobody was supposed to nobody said you know right yeah and that's the hard type thing I think sometimes if we would have just gone into tabeling gives us a moment to breathe on it and and I think it's the first time we've tabled something isn't it we haven't I don't feel like we've tabled anything else but

[187:00] it feels ok to if we've literally spent almost two hours on it I think we were at a point where we had to tap out or drowned my my piece on that is just I think that's what caused the fuzziness for me was the order that it was brought to us didn't didn't work we were kind of deciding on the end piece before we had talked about the first part so just a lesson for me and that was like okay if I'm going to bring something that is very important how I structure it the presentation of it and what's kind of interesting is we got a little bit sloppy there remember how in for a little while that we were very poignant about bringing the motion like we wrote the motion so that we would have the clarity before we moved into anything even though it felt very formal to us it lent us to be prepared it required us to be prepared and clear about it in advance even if we didn't use the motion it required us to be

[188:02] prepared and clear and we slid away from that we will have motions won't we yes you know it just helps with clarity and preparation it's a complex the engagements a complex undertaking it's not simple and and then trying to in a sense oversimplify it by applying a template of parliamentary procedure in Robert's Rules of Order it's sort of almost you feel you know if you're the one doing it you probably feel like it's a certain sense of compromise to get to this you know to make it so narrow to fit within that context of that of that motion that's not it's not a trivial thing to accomplish if you didn't have a specific board mandate engagement to begin with so it laughs it didn't have the privilege of that character challenging by its definition I don't this is just a

[189:02] really minor thing but Corey is it okay or Geoff is it okay all the things that you did that we voted on where we changed wording here and there can you send that to Adam and me okay yes thank you is there anything else from anybody I do have something so I am going off planning board it the end of my sixth year this next month and so I will no longer be your Leia son to the housing board but it spins your last time tonight is actually our last planning board meeting was a week or two ago oh yeah so we have you know sometimes you have breaks in your schedule but I just wanted to say it's interesting to see how the board is growing then and I'm very excited for the things on your work plan alpine bell some sub-community planning community benefit don't don't neglect the youth table so I know it's

[190:00] not the exciting thing and any of you can call me if you want a little overview of those items but I see it as a big opportunity for you all to be real advocates for for housing and my bias or my interest is permanently affordable housing and but for all a whole variety of income levels first we used to talk about that with just the lower to middle income of the average medium income but now that top is rising so I hope to hear some great ideas from you all on Alpine balsam and I'll watch on TV to see to see what ideas you have for that but if you you should be the advocates of other people besides the providers and this wonderful staff are the other ones in the communities so well thank you for your service I'm planning order in for

[191:01] here you're welcome and I just want to say what a wonderful staff Corey and Jeff you've been just stellar and we you tell the rest of the staff because you have one of the funnest things has been hearing in depth all the programs that that healthiness involved in so I've appreciated that part the learning thank you and on that note I wanted to say one more thing oh yeah just because there is a chance to new people yeah given that crystal situation maybe we can persuade a TRG member to join you I really appreciate the time with you guys and I

[192:00] love that it's been rocky along the way sometimes to you because that gives me more appreciation for the times that we really work well together and how much more fluid things have gotten overtime so you know this has been awesome I really hope to be back and we'll see how things pan out but I'm in complete denial about this by the way it's not even this whole changeover thing and I've really enjoyed working with you and yeah I truly hope it continues because you're super thoughtful very passionate and a strong communicator so it's that's what I feel like we all want on four board members so you know if anybody's listening you will be one of my recommendations thank you you got my vote Jeff would in in our bylaws do we have the authority to make a motion to extend Adams term [Laughter] I've never seen you be so specific you

[193:10] know Adam where it's dead I'm willing to try that and I don't have to make a motion to adjourn do i I always forget that like to make a motion to adjourn Adam I'll second that and on that we will adjourn [Music] - Parris unfold like that