January 23, 2019 — Housing Advisory Board Regular Meeting

Transcript

[MM:SS] timestamps correspond to the YouTube recording.

[0:00] [Music] a 23rd 2019 and we will have a call to order will do a roll call we're gonna start at that in Judi nod Mason Moyer Adams public bike Mackenzie fantastic

[1:03] and a review of the agenda does anybody have any changes or amendments Michael are you good you did with the agenda okay the agenda is good any Corrections or questions about the minutes make a motion to approve the minutes second fantastic okay yes okay no discussion cool oh

[2:01] thank you okay for public participation and we don't have any buddy signed up for the regular open public participation we've got several several people that are signed up for the manager manufacturing Housing Strategy so we will officially close public participation and we will start all right good evening Jeff Yeager in senior project manager with housing and Human Services and the project manager for the manufactured housing strategy we're back again you've heard the project plan before but now we're in the midst of the work with me tonight is our neighborhood liaison Renda to introduce herself

[3:00] Brenda written our neighborhood liaison in the city manager's office you're nice and loud but you know I figured I can make up for it Brenda written our neighborhood liaison with the city manager's office and I was supporting the engagement part of the strategy and the third member of our team crystal Lander housing planner was is at her kids art and history night so she hoped to be here and we'll be listening or watching later so here's what we got for you two tonight a brief presentation to go over the materials that were posted a little bit to them and then we would want to answer any questions you have have public participation and then enter into your discussion of the questions and any other input that you would have we'll provide a project overview an overview of the engagement activities and process that we use to collect ideas

[4:03] and people's input we will cover the ideas summary of the ideas that people have suggested and we've collected discuss the idea and the suggested principles for organizing how we would move forward on any policy or other actions the city or others might take and we have a couple of questions for you about how we would move forward to select items and we'll take it from there so the goal of the manufactured housing strategy which council initiated earlier or earlier last year that we have defined or to try and identify what principles should govern or shape the direction the city and others might take to accomplish the boulder valley comp plan goal which is to preserve and expand this valuable

[5:01] housing option that people appreciate the means affording that moving towards that goal would be to select and prioritize a number of action items not all of which have to be City action items that the city would like to support in order to accomplish preservation activities and potentially even expand into a new park project really kicked off in the fall of last year and as you reviewed the project plan we've stuck pretty closely to that we're pretty much have completed for the most part the community engagement phase the first phase of this the second phase is what we are with you tonight and going to council next month on is to take the input we have process it take the research we've done and and try and narrow it to an area of focus which actions in particular do we want to provide a more thorough description and analysis of pros and cons on and and

[6:02] which of those do we want to prioritize for implementation over the next set of years so that third phase will initiate after council provides its guidance in the study session next month what we're asking for the questions that you'll see for you tonight really are around shaping the discussion for council helping organize the thoughts providing guidance to the work we've done so far so we aren't tonight's job isn't to select particular actions it's more to help us figure out which actions we want to recommend that council move forward so I'm going to turn it over to Brenda for a little bit about the engagement strategy we took in the engagement results and then I'll be back when we talk about actions and principles so hopefully this nine step wheel on the screens is not new to you this was developed as part of our engagement strategy as the way we would like to

[7:02] start making decisions in Boulder to really include the voice of our residents so as you see we are coming to the conclusion tonight we think of step four this shared foundation of information and inquiry that means all of us sort of knowing and sharing and understanding the background information and then asking questions of each other and of our residents to find out the information that we need in order to move to step five which is identify options so you'll see in the memo that we have listed a lot of the things that we have heard we've also bounced those off of a lot of the things that we've studied in the past to come up with a list of potential actions and so that's where we are sort of in that four five area on the wheel I'm gonna click or have Jeff click for me so we have collaborated between the housing division and the city manager's office over the last several months to

[8:02] really reach out to all of who we believe are the impacted parties of this strategy we first went to those parties to talk to them about how they would like to engage and we gave essentially three options a staff led process where we would do most of the conversations with the different parties individually a more collaborative process where we would have working sessions with everybody in the room together that would involve a smaller number of people or a true working group made up of representatives of each of those groups to really wrestle with these thoughts and ideas and we heard very strongly from all angles that the staff led process was preferred because folks wanted the most engagement possible and they also wanted to be able to speak within their own groups as opposed to across groups there can be some vulnerability when you start mixing the various parties that are impacted by the

[9:00] manufactured housing communities so when you put owners in the room with home owners the conversation can look different so we very much wanted to hear the the purity of each of those opinions and ideas and that was supported by the folks we talked to we were fortunate to talk to more than a hundred people throughout this process we held engagements events we had interviews you'll see there the sort of breakdown of how we did this we had an online engagement opportunities in both English and Spanish we spoke with when we talk about the impacted individuals we're talking about the owners and managers of each of the four parks in Boulder and of course we're talking about our residents that live in those four parks we really really tried to make it very easy for the residents to engage with us yeah would you prefer questions help to the end or do you want them as we go up to you know it's fine okay so I'm curious about the engagement stuff you know yeah

[10:00] we've had this conversation before so we're looking at about 1300 residents correct yep in all of this a hundred is a little less than the ten percent mark and what do you consider a successful engagement plan and did that feel like yeah I mean also traditionally it has it has not been easy to engage this population in these types of conversations the resonance so we felt pretty good about who we were able to reach and in the number of different ways that we reached people it's it's not a it's not always easy to get folks to come out of their homes for things we did a lot of door knocking and a lot flyering particularly in Boulder Meadows and Orchard Grove where we have some larger struggles and engaging people so we know at least everyone got a piece of paper in English in Spanish that told them this was happening and told them some various ways that they could engage we also held two events specifically in

[11:00] locations that were most convenient to those two parks so we do think word got out that it was happening and then it's just our hope that people will will step in as they can and and want to so I'm also curious in that one hundred more specific data like which parks did they show up at what was the age range racial makeup sure and we can break some of that down more specifically for you I don't have it right in front of me we did get folks from all four parks okay we did get a variety of Ages and we had at least two languages in the room at both of our engagement events and I'm curious were you able to talk to all owners and managers of all part we were anybody's that didn't okay we talked to all of them so yep we also talked to you within that engagement you'll see them within those one hundred people and it's really a hundred plus because I only counted one staffer per department but several of us spoke to multiple staffers in each department we talked to quite a

[12:00] few internal departments who work directly in those communities from a service perspective as well as external partners like the emergency family assistance Association Rocky Mountain Home Association various partners who also serve those communities so we really tried to take a full landscape of who might have thoughts and ideas about this strategy so you'll see and you have the long long long list of every comment we heard that crystal that's where crystals fingerprints are so we're sad she's not sitting up here with us tonight she really categorized all those in a way that is digestible and easy to read and understand we're so grateful for that so you see your top four topics and then seven additional topics that we thought were really important too encapsulate in the summary and in the report itself and then this is Jeff so

[13:02] the second attachment attachment B collects all of the ideas or we may have missed a couple we were double checking but we tried to collect all of the ideas that we found from researching other communities from past city discussions and actions and most importantly from what we heard from folks what did what do they think would help accomplish their goals or the city's goal of preserving and expanding this housing option so we used a similar organizational approach and tried to categorize them in similar categories to try and provide some link between them and tried very much to to provide a we did not try and provide a prioritized list at this point because that's the job of the next phase what we are bringing to you in the memo did link all

[14:01] several of the sources we use what we are bringing to you tonight or what is what we drew from the community engagement as well as the city experience so far and some of the research is an attempt to define some principles for decision making to guide how we would continue to discuss which actions make sense so we came up with three that we were very interested in hearing what you think about them I've got them summarized up here the memo does have additional information for each but not not too extensive so affordability is something we hear loud and clear from pretty much everybody involved this is a really important characteristic of this housing option in our community we have put a descriptor up which talks about it not only remaining the most affordable kind of detached housing but from what current currently we see is that for the

[15:02] most part the manufactured housing option is actually cheaper than renting equivalent apartment in most cases and that is a really valuable thing to be offering so affordability it was the first that we identified viability is something that is a significant concern to everybody whether that's at the nonprofit own park or the market rate parks these parks need to continue to function as business operations and they need to provide a high quality living experience they need to be well maintained and that's in terms of the housing units which are typically owned by individuals as well as the park services the infrastructure so for them to continue be preserved as a viable housing option the housing has to be in good shape and what it's attached to has to be in good shape so that's what empty to capture in here so that's what we are trying to define

[16:01] as viability and last the third one that we've identified and we heard clearly over and over again is how important these communities and this housing type is to Boulder at large as well as each parks sense of community when you look at it as you saw the attachment to the 2015 memo if you look at the one dimension of racial diversity that parks are little concentrations that really support the community's inclusion and diversity goals and that type of housing is making a really big difference in our ability to do that there is an assumption bate that probably the residents of mobile home parks are manufactured housing communities some percentage are probably vulnerable whether that's economically or due to other conditions mention that we are continuing to work with the boulder affordable housing research initiative out of CU to conduct the survey of park

[17:03] residents to try and get really more reliable information about the characteristics of people who live in parks to inform this and we should have that in the next six weeks eight weeks hopefully so it will become a part of this discussion one of the things we did not try and do with these three principles was capture everything that we value about the manufactured housing communities on this housing option nor did we try and make them try and remove any of the inherent tension between them so some of the things you would do to enhance viability will probably have an effect on affordability but both are valuable to to try and consider when just deciding what to do we will be taking to Council a recommended of the 40-plus actions that we have collected we will be trying to

[18:02] provide counsel with an initial cut as to which one's really should move forward for further analysis greater definition and then prioritization so that would involve developing a clear description of what they are some pros and cons some of the factors and considerations that you'd want to take into account we would like to narrow the list of those things that are of most interest so what we are proposing to do and are interested in your feedback tonight on or using the principles assuming that you support that approach and then adding other considerations that you would look at and evaluating the viability feasibility and your interest in pursuing something so we've suggested several there and we can come back to the side when you talk about it but we'd be interested in your feedback on that so the questions we've teed up for you tonight for your discussion once you have your your questions and the answers about any of the content if

[19:01] you'd like to clarify anything we'll have public participation then we'll ask you to to address these questions it just helped structure your conversation so with that do you have any questions about this short presentation or the content that was in the memo I just had one question Mike please sorry they're talking about affordability you said it's the lowest cost option in the sense do you have a sense of what those numbers are like compared to apartments and so lot rents are in the mid 7os if you own your home outright your additional costs are maintenance utility taxes registration if you finance your home home prices range from say that 20s to well over $100,000 so depending on how you finance

[20:02] that you'd have that carrying cost as well so depending on what financing you have it's gonna your cost of living in a manufactured housing kameez going to vary however if you take say 6% on a hundred thousand dollars to make the math easier you know you're at about five hundred a month a little more probably in your payment you add that to the eight six seven fifty let's say for rents your your twelve thirteen hundred plus utilities etc there's not a lot of two and three bedroom apartments available at that price and there are no ownership opportunities I just saw the median price for an attached dwelling in Boulder is mid four hundred thousands right now so the mortgage on that exceeds by a substantial amount the total cost of owning and living in manufactured housing community and what are the lot sizes how does that vary or

[21:01] an average on lot size so there's a wide range of those lot sizes in each of the parks don't have a square footage calculation under the city's established manufactured housing zone which was created after the parks were constructed the the lot sizes are large on average then they are in some of the older in the in the parks so that is one of the reasons you will see in the actions looking at that zone one of the complications that we heard about is it's difficult to bring in newer homes on smaller Lots because of our zoning restrictions it would also affect the ability to provide more how much housing you can provide in a new park and as a function of the lot size requirements in the zone as well it's been played

[22:01] insight on what sort of the duration of residence of you know in years are they it's the average seven years and kind of what the range or maybe some character around that to help us understand that so we are hoping to gather some of that through the I believe it's an item on the survey of residents I don't have anything but anecdotal information at this point anecdotally we would I would say it's um just from talking folks I mean we have folks who just moved in within the last year or two and we have folks who've been in their home for forty years so what the numbers are on the ends of those range we don't know but we certainly span the whole that whole range because it seems like that's kind of in in concert with what if I heard you correctly earlier it's a very very diverse community mm-hmm and it doesn't lend itself to an easy answer to that right and kind of even attempting that answer is sort of self-defeating well

[23:02] and that's why we're Lawry's respectful yeah the Bari survey will really help us we know that that the population does that while in some ways it doesn't change in other ways it changes a lot so we have folks who've been there for 30 40 years and and we also have a moveable population as well so we're looking forward to learning more specifics about them yeah I did have a question and by the way I'm Krystal Graham the ex officio member representative from Planning Board and I don't vote but I can't ask questions so my and that was a good question Jacque about the size of the Lots which brings up some of the items that are on the Planning Board's work program and how how this effort will interface with them and specifically the use tables they define Lots Isis

[24:02] followed by Community Benefit and then the sub Community Plan so as far as your outreach and your community engagement I would think that there's some overlap and some opportunities to address some of these might not fit in nicely exactly with your Community Engagement staffs but the youth tables are going forward on an accelerated basis okay anybody else relations okay opening for public participation and our first gentlemen is Jim freedom and I believe you have three minutes correct and you can speak into

[25:00] them speaking into the mic okay my name's Jim freedom I live in the Mapleton park one of the things that I didn't see on that list of things that my comments were hoping to see some sort of effort in for older mobile homes in my park that most of the parks I've been into there's a lot of older mobile homes that we could use help in a collective bargaining wouldn't be expensive but bargaining with manufacturers to get replacements from them in the and after the flood we had one of the government issues and they replaced a lot of them but it would be nice to just to see some help with a collective bargaining to get a bunch of the replacements because mobile older mobile homes unlike the manufactured homes and those there's a difference between them is they depreciate and fall apart after

[26:03] time the newer ones are built pretty much like stick homes today and they last tremendously longer so helping getting help on that replacing and also possibly getting help with federal funds to help in this replacement of these older mobile homes and I know quite a few people in not just my Park but in previous Parker lived in which was on Belmont and Vista there's a lot of people there that have some of the older ones that are just falling apart and they can't afford to go out and buy a complete replacement so we're looking for some help and mostly it doesn't cost much except personnel time as the collective bargaining situation got a whole minute left and then from friends in the private parks they seem five to

[27:02] seven percent increases annually in their rent and that seems starting to price people out of that market and they're looking for maybe some help on rent control that that's taking it more than the cost-of-living increases that come up with a fixed incomes and so forth so they're wondering if there's something that can be done in that way there was a story on NPR today about how private corporations are coming in and just buying them up and raising prices and again half a minute left so so that was something that those people have told me in Mapleton we don't have that issue but that is an issue that they would like to bring up so any questions yes if when Jim thank you I just wanted to clarify something I wasn't quite sure I understood when you were talking about rents increasing five to seven percent does that mean paying for the lot or does that mean people who are renting that is

[28:02] paying for the lot like I have a friend who's been there for four years and every year it went up about that much okay thank you thank you Jim so can you just also in your mind a few of the benefits of living on a public lot as opposed to a private line just I actually haven't heard from a lot of people like I used to be in Vista village from I was living in a friend's place there was a lot of community sense there I almost none I'd love it in Mapleton we have a real community as very bohemian culture and I knew most a lot of the people in the culture already so I like that sense and we we sometimes do things together we have board meetings and I go to those occasionally it's it's a real sense of family community that I didn't get into public law the private ones do you think you had like less arguments stuff like that amongst neighbors I'm sure to get part

[29:03] of those and I would like to but I haven't been able to find those I'm sure there are they like to see that you know that taken care of locally and the in that mobile home park community about you anything else thank you thank you Jim I think it's dorri dorri and then next up after that is Michael so if you can be ready as well hi I'm Jory Glover and I live in Vista Village and I moved in two years ago a little over two years and I have been absolutely shocked by the comparison between owning a home somewhere else and

[30:01] owning a mobile home and the shock is mostly around the discriminatory and often unwritten rule PUC rules and the climate of fear and intimidation you know I don't know to what extent your group is going to want to focus on that it's easier to focus on affordability obviously and I agree with the the earlier gentleman's suggestions about the older homes but the main thing in our day-to-day lives is the constant sense of harassment and some of the parks have different kinds of harassment in in some parks it's the illegal towing where you could actually literally lose your own car from your own driveway in

[31:02] Vista Village it's a little more sort of subtle sophisticated I have to pay an extra fee for an indoor cat that never is outside in a home that I own I am asked to pay for tree trimming that is there you know a danger to my own home and it's an infrastructure issue and yet I'm asked to pay for that you know that tree foundations the foundations are supposed to be maintained by the park and that's why I pay my lot rent and yeah mine is crumbling and you know I asked a bunch of times what I could do and they don't want me to do anything but they came over and they threw some cement down without any any form and of course

[32:01] you know I mean that's like ridiculous you know water with being overcharged for water that's you know something that maybe you guys can't deal with but somebody needs to and so we formed the Colorado coalition of manufactured homeowners we are attempting to organize residents all across the state to try to get some regulatory support for the existing manufactured home ordinance look there I go all done dori we have a question for you hi Dori what I want to know could you tell me the name of that coalition again the Colorado Coalition of manufactured homeowners and I have some of our newsletters okay that we've

[33:09] we've done and we're now applying for a grant from the Community Health Foundation oh great and are you talking to anyone in the state legislature that is a part of what we're trying to do but as residents I mean we all have full-time jobs we all you know are barely scraping by and so it's difficult for us to be everywhere and then there are as Brenda alluded to a lot of sort of barriers we aren't having internet in our parks so we can't even use something like a website we often are trying to talk to neighbors that are only Spanish speakers monolingual Spanish speakers so it's difficult to have a sense of community

[34:00] in under certain circumstances and to gather people together but but also the management doesn't want us in Vista Village to gather together and in fact I'm banned from the office and several of our board members are also and we aren't allowed to rent the community building so it's very hard to you know have a good sense of community when you are being watched thank you in Dory you reached out to us once before didn't you you sent us an email in the very beginning of this board did you not so thank you for coming down and talking about it appreciate it and I appreciate how complex this issue is it's huge and I don't know where you're gonna start but wherever you start it's good thank you

[35:02] thank you Michael Michael Pierce Jeff and Brenda yeah if I were calling right that there's a an operation of Colorado law that in manufactured housing parks you can raise the rent every 60 days if they so chose to do that I don't remember the particulars of the mobile home park act clearly enough to confirm that but yes one of the desired changes to that is that increases be limited to once annually and there is have been bills introduced in the past I don't know how many sessions that were unsuccessful to provide additional guidance and regulation of manufactured housing communities with the new Statehouse composition it's entirely possible that

[36:03] legislature might be more inclined to pass new legislation and they'll be you know through that process opportunities to influence what goes into it with rights being an item that's been suggested many times I come across at first probably three years ago with some work with resident own communities and I was I didn't see the statute maybe someone else here it seemed egregiously onerous that someone could do that and it probably has thanks I can speak to actually to the rent increase alright if it's not part of my minutes well we'll let you go over okay I'd like to speak on what door erased and the gentleman before her raised regarding largely the the quality of life in mobile home parks by the way I'm Michael Pierce I'm from San Souci so I'm not from the city I'm from a park just outside of the city

[37:02] but I work with the Colorado Coalition and I have been attending the Colorado manufactured housing owners of Boulder meetings so I've gotten quite a lot of input from from those meetings one of the things that seems to me to be very strongly needed is some form of legal aid or legal type of remedies to residents in mobile home parks particular because of the level of harassment that residents experience fairly frequently and regularly from park owners from Park management and as it as the resources currently stand most people would have to bring a suit for individual infractions and and those typically just the level of harm for each individual fraction infraction is just too small to make it viable as a

[38:02] suit and so one of the most important things it seems is for residents to be able to collectively get together and engage in some sort of a class action mechanism of some sort whether through an HOA whether through some sort of legal representation but but as a group be able to enforce some sort of rights for themselves so that they can get some of these small-bore harassment held at bay and currently the legal system doesn't really allow for that legal services provides aid for individuals especially for eviction notices and potentially for rule infractions where they're being threatened with with evictions but beyond that legal services is forbidden from providing aid to for example HOAs

[39:00] that represent resident organizations and they're forbidden from engaging in class action suits so a vital thing I think that would help residents of these parks is for some kind of aid to them as groups aid to the HOAs for example to engage in in actions and I wanted to leave off also with a pitch to try and increase the ability for HOAs to be involved in setting the rules and regulations of the parks so that they're not largely driven by the park owners but rather part of a group establishment process um there was a part I didn't quite understand you said something your people are forbidden from legal something do you remember that part

[40:01] Colorado legal services cannot represent classes and class action suits need to be some other kind of legal assistance right so so currently low low income legal services they don't provide anything to HOAs for example because they're groups rather than individuals I have several questions that will probbably follow up with after public comment but I'm a little bit curious about CU law students helping and if that's a possibility by me we have been working with the Cu Law Clinic but they are not a litigating service they're more of a research and policy service so so they've been very helpful to us in in helping us understand what sort of policy avenues there might be or helping

[41:02] the residents understand what their rights are but not as much enforcement of those rights maybe there's a way to marry somebody who's interested in pro bono with the students who would be interested in doing the legwork that's an interesting idea yeah we did have a lawyer working with us pro bono over the last couple of years but it's just become too expensive for her office to take those on anymore thank you Michael can I actually you answer the that one question you asked you two kids a mobile home park act does not actually set any kind of a time limit on when rents can be increased the only thing that it includes is a 60-day notice requirement is if they wanted to know they could do it every thirty days they just need to give 60 days notice or when it's going to occur perfect and how

[42:01] often generally have had the cost prison I don't I can't speak for other parks in the park that I'm in they generally raised the rents every year but that was that was a mom and pop thing up until August when we got bought and rent went up in June and the new owners are looking at raising our rent again this coming June and they were gonna also do an effective rent increase by starting to separate the water costs from from us and start charging us in a couple months I think the daily camera did it really in depth an article about your property when the sale took place around that time about what was happening with you just cuz you were outside of the county versus the city limits and right by right in the early stages like a lien do

[43:01] owners from Colorado or outside the state it's hard to say they are the management company is named RV horizons originally and now their names strive and the there they're a separate company from the owning the ownership company which is also run by Frank Rolfe and Dave Reynolds who owned RV Verizon's so so it's hard to say I don't know where they live but they're their corporate headquarters are in Greenwood Village in Denver thank you Mike oh you shoot your time Doretta HealthQuest thank you thank you yes my name is Donna Holt Chris I'm a boater native and I will soon be reaching the age of 77 and I literally he looks fantastic I live in the San

[44:02] Souci mobile home park that's between eldorado springs and Marshall and the companies that have bought us they're sort of predatory investors they're showing people how to be by mom-and-pop mobile homes and turned them into Mega Millions for the investors and there we also have the impression that they will be doing gentrification of our park and so we're concerned that our older mobile homes low income and the seniors will soon be evict and we vote most of us will end up homeless so we're very concerned about this we would like to see do you find affordable because we're like I say low-income residents and defined community mobile homes were built before 1976 I live in a 1964 frontier that's

[45:01] ten feet wide by forty seven feet long and I've lived in the San Souci 50 years we've had people my neighbor has been there for forty five and so was one of our resident managers we want to find out if there's any grandfathering of the mobile home parks that are over that age because we can't afford to buy anything else and we're concerned that we will be told that they have to be removed or we may be told you can't sell them either and the previous owner let making that slide and so there was a lot of problems we have our own water treatment plant and our own sewer plant and the sewer plant by state law has to be brought up to code so first they told us they might be two hundred and fifty thousand dollars then we heard five hundred thousand now they're saying a million

[46:00] because they may want to move it to the south into the park which means pumping stations and our water wells are out in that area so we're very concerned there's also the cost involved and we don't know who all the stakeholders are in the investments people and that's about all I have thank you anybody have questions well I'm just running you're not in the city no we're in both Oh have you tried talking to people in the county or yes yeah we're working with them and we do have pro bono attorney out of Longmont that is trying to help us negotiate rules and regulations because what they're doing is a lot it's more strict than what we've dealt with in the past plus our lot rent just to give you an idea when I first moved into the park a lot rent was $32.50 and months and now it's 480 Wow how many units are there 62

[47:04] and our water and trash and water sewer trash and now we have recycling that was all included in our rent now they want to install water meters and they said they're gonna start charging just for water so we're assuming we're also going to be charged for sewer we're going to be charged for trash thank you Matt Jensen and then mark Robbins good evening evening um well I wanted to start by talking about kind of reiterating what they were saying with the way ownership can act towards mobile home residents again my my name is Matt

[48:01] I'm the president of Vista Village homeowners association which is more of a community association really I would urge you guys to take a look and just google mobile home University they're a private business that teaches investors how to invest in mobile home parks and make a killing off of them and exploit the people who live there the New York's the New York Times - the very thorough write-up on this a few years ago worth looking at I would also just has been mentioned already ro sees resident own communities are a great way for mobile home residents manufactured housing residents to take control and have some

[49:01] ability to to have control over the direction of their own parks for obvious reasons this ties into ideas like opportunity to purchase first right of refusal type of things so when that opportunity comes up that can be very helpful the other one would be rent control there's currently state representative Julie Gonzales has stated that she's looking at putting forth some legislation to overturn the state law banning rent control which would definitely open avenues for the city to help to tip the scale so it's more even right now because it's anybody who lives in this town pretty much knows it's very unbalanced right now single occupancy dwellings are averaging 15 to

[50:02] 1,600 bucks a month for people to rent so that's getting out of control and rent control is something that we're looking into very thoroughly as an avenue to even that out and the other one would be enforcement of ordinances which has been talked about and then the last thing I wanted to bounce off you guys if I can get this in is is a city supported tax pool to give home loans to mobile home residents and if you guys are interested in that I can tell you more about that but I have a very thought out idea based on the way that could realistically happen and I'm gonna it when I have more time I'm gonna definitely keep on keeping on with that well Matt what you can also do is put together a letter like detail it out and email it to us and we all get those and

[51:02] then that way we can respond right back to you if we have questions about it as well so great yeah yeah I will definitely do that I think yeah I would be a very it's an interesting idea and it would be a way to give how mobile homeowners leverage and people who are looking to buy mobile homes some leverage because it's that initial purchase of the mobile home that keeps people from being able to to live there and entering into a form of housing that really truly is affordable housing the real deal affordable housing thank you for sharing yeah thank you thanks mark Robbins and then Rene Hummel hello I'm mark Robbins from the orchard Grove neighbors Association and I've been living in Orchard Grove for going on 37 years what I have to say here generally represents

[52:00] the views of our members although not in every case most of the housing in Boulder is single-family housing and mobile homes are the densest most energy-efficient form of single-family housing we talk about tiny homes but we've been doing tiny homes for many years and because they're building factories they're more affordable the best thing that Boulder has done in my opinion for mobile homes is the mobile home zoning because it not only preserves the use but it also keeps the rents from getting out of control because if the owner raises them too much and people default and the park empties he can't redevelop so that's been a good thing our priorities in my opinion would be number one to incorporate some of the the Colorado mobile home park act into city laws so there's and create an enforcement mechanism it's a good law Kathy Bern has rewritten it to make it more coherent

[53:02] but the only enforcement mechanism is to basically file a lawsuit in District Court which is very costly time-consuming meanwhile you roll the dice on getting evicted so to have an enforcement mechanism for the things that are ready in state law would be great the second thing would be the right of first refusal which doesn't hurt the park owner it's a win-win and it allows the residents to own the land the third thing would be more mobile home spaces Lisa Moore zoella's talked about that ideally resident owned but if you look at the last 50 years in Boulder and Boulder County population has increased every form of housing has increased yet the number of mobile home spaces despite higher demand has decreased that creates a monopoly situation for the owners which with the you know expected consequences I also wanted to talk about rent control having a little bit of background in economics unfortunately

[54:02] like anyone else has studied economics that I generally don't favor rent control because while it benefits a few and would if at me in the long run it usually hurts affordability less supply and and loopholes and you know you can look at San Francisco in New York and also it was mobile homes there's a dual the wrinkle of the dual nature of ownership so if you were to rent control the lot rent the homes would the the equity the increase in the equity and the value of the land would accrue to the home when sold so you find that in California that where they have rent controlled parks when the homes sell they sell for two or three times let a home a similar home in Boulder would sell for so the homeowner gets the the equity instead of the the park owner and you know who sized all the lawsuits and all that that might be a good thing but then it won't affect affordability so affordability is one

[55:00] thing but the the harassment and all that is solely due to the dual nature of the land being owned by someone else if the residents on the land it'd be like a condo or a regular single-family home thank you Mark don't have a question so your suggestion is to try to get community owned mobile home parks I would say 98% of people live in mobile home parks would love that idea because basically you'd be paying the same but you know you you wouldn't be subject to essentially I mean it's it's a ridiculous notion to have a really a permanent home and most of those homes never move especially the newer ones and you're renting the the land on a month-to-month basis it's it's an anachronism it came about from trailer parks in the 40s and 50s and unfortunately it's it's endured thank you Renee

[56:06] welcome thank you hi I'm Renee hello I'm vice president of the Vista Village homeowners association and I'm on the steering committee for the foresee mob coalition of manufactured homeowners in Boulder so a few comments here great work on this strategy is the whole document I can't say that I remember everything but lots of good points in there one thing I wanted to bring up it's for quality of life several people have mentioned you know tensions between park owners and homeowners and HOA empowerment and I ran into a situation just recently where something happened with a neighbor and I was trying to investigate I have a little tendency that way and reached out to City Council

[57:04] and somehow worried if it got back to management I went into the park office to give something and is like hey Lena can we talk to you and you know we had a civil conversation I appreciate you know white management does but it just it doesn't feel good to be working on behalf of our fellow residents and she's like well it just come to me about things and they just leave you know things she was saying stuff like that again we have a civil relationship and I'm not trying to trash management but I really would like to see more empowerment for the HOAs and even you know if I don't know if this can be done in City law or not but some structure where you can't just a cost someone without warning and start asking them questions about about things like that so also we required communications from

[58:03] the owners to the homeowners they spent a suggestion if like a homeowners Bill of Rights that can be posted or communications that are required upon purchase it's like how often do rents go up if they can tell you what's been the history of rent increases in the past what can you expect you know and then upon sale of home there's lots of things that happen around that that could be communicated like a with a structure I'm going to sell my home I go into the park I say I'm going to sell it and they have to put in writing exactly what the procedure is and showing that they recognize what what the city laws are around it so just quickly on so many things protection from predatory investors and like what's happened at sanssouci protecting us from that enabling our Oasys and the Mapleton model for the city you know I know that funding is always tight for everything but if there

[59:01] can be funding initiatives you know that could help with that with infrastructure home replacements we needed a lot of the older ones actually are still good etc well thank you thank you thank you and thank everybody for coming out tonight and sharing your thoughts and and suggestions with us we greatly appreciate it and we will close participation and I have a few questions regarding that so first does the county have a mobile home strategy are they working on something like this they have identified a specific strategy but they in with the city have rezone the manufactured housing communities under their jurisdiction for that use only so they aren't those parks are not in

[60:00] jeopardy of being redeveloped and I know that they have worked with residents of parks on a number of very similar issues to the ones you're hearing about I don't know if they have adopted a formal strategy but their overall goal through the boulder valley comp plan is the same as ours preserve and expand this housing option one thing we've heard from our county neighbors is is that they are very jealous of the ordinances that the city has put in place there are many of them like that sale we allow people to sell mobile homes that were built before 1976 in the city of Boulder in the state that's not allowed so that's a home rule ordinance that we've enacted that has proven helpful okay and for me personally I had my other questions answered about the legal stuff already but it seems like there were some really great points brought up so I'm curious how we can fit those in into and we're looking at

[61:02] community or viability with the tax incentive system people were suggesting I'm an affordability just I'll just add that and we I believe we talked about this a few months back let me give you the overview that the state manufactured housing the mobile home park act governs state law is going to govern in most cases what can happen the city as we related to you has passed a few ordinances that are outside the scope of the state legislation so we've been able to do things like some of the things that were mentioned we allow people to say you must remove an old home just because it's old or requiring that tree maintenance be the park owners responsibility so a number of things are contained in our local ordinances but we

[62:00] do have to work within the constraints of the state legislation the city has as part of its adopted legislative agenda for many years supported changes to that state-level legislation and that is in the currently adopted legislative agenda as is support for a variety of things that would make it easier for residents to purchase their communities if and when they are for sale so those those efforts are going to continue they've already been approved by City Council and there's no reason to believe that they would we would change our perspective on that before we get into those questions I just have a couple questions when you've been doing all the outreach do people prefer their homes to be called mobile homes or manufactured housing or doesn't it matter we have heard from the community that manufactured housing or manufactured homes is preferred because of the

[63:00] misnomer of the word mobile okay it is not easy to pick these homes up and move them and that's part of what creates the vulnerability for the residents if you have a fight with your landlord in an apartment you can find a new apartment if your home if your home is there and you'd have to pick up and move your home and that's the difficult to do and very expensive then it puts you in a much less powerful position my second question maybe you said this and I just it was but approximately what's your notion of the ratio between owner-occupied and renter occupied weren't were they're rentals I don't know that we know for sure we don't know for sure we will have a much better idea when this survey is completed it's probably about 9 to 1 I mean it's it's a small minority of homes that are rented owned by the park owner and rented out the vast majority are owned by individuals and they rent the lot only

[64:02] there are some situations where owners owned a home and they rent it to a renter the same way you might own any type of housing and rent it to a renter and you'll find that that also exists yeah ok aren't there also a number of homes as I recall that are owned by like an entity or like people with this then they rent it to people with disabilities live in it so it's not it's not owner occupied exactly but it's there I am aware of single-digit numbers of those but I haven't tracked it over the past years I know there's been discussion of transitioning to other types of housing so they may have reduced that number the agencies that do that and I maybe I know what I'm aware of but if there are agencies that have taken that housing model further than a handful I don't know it okay thank you

[65:05] so is there a restriction as to what type of manufactured housing can be in our communities at this time like can they be tiny homes and so the there's a couple of relevant restrictions the first would be the federal requirements for constructing manufactured housing often termed as a HUD home housing and apartment of Housing and Urban Development developed these standards and forces them and so anything that's built after 1976 would have to meet that standard and I you know I don't know for sure if our manufactured housing zone requires that or not something I'll have to look up the other piece of it would

[66:00] be around the requirements of the of our manufactured housing zone what the homes have to be they cannot be permanently affixed to a foundation and they have to be tied down in a certain way they have to meet certain requirements for wind loading and the like that would limit what kinds of homes you are allowed to do there is discussion of incorporating into a residential building code update this year a and appendix for tiny homes which would change that so there's those are the things that I'm aware of that would restrict what kinds of homes you can have here and I think the biggest issue too is sighs so 450 being the legal liveability issue that we have for homes right now on the books from what I've heard from somebody else crystal correct on planning board you guys have been talking about this well you know as

[67:00] we're gonna be talking about the youth tables for one and then we do put in our letter to council to talk about tiny homes and there actually is not a definition for tiny homes since the definition for size the size and it's funny you asked I was just looking it up on the city website no and most tiny homes on average are tend to be smaller based on the trailer sizes so I think what we were running into on that issue was was size yeah I think it might be a little bit smaller do you know the answer to minimum size for a dwelling unit so my understanding is it's not specified where where you get it is by adding up the various required elements a bedroom space or other living spaces and bathroom and kitchen so if you add up the required square footage of all the required components of a individual dwelling unit you get to somewhere above

[68:00] 400 feet and I believe I don't know that it's anywhere specified that a dwelling unit must be 450 square feet or greater or I believe though the smallest unit size we have defined as efficiency which goes down to 450 so that it might be something below that just can't qualify I don't know for sure does anybody else have any questions yes shock I think you owe your effect on the back on the block my little piece of research was the code and it's nine seven thirteen if you want to look at all the mobile home requirements for lot sizes setbacks and all that stuff I guess one of the questions I had was so going back to the lot size piece our minimum lot size as its expressed here is 3,500 square feet seems high to

[69:03] me and I'm wondering do you know like prior to this change what is there a state rule or requirement under the the state regs for lot size I haven't run across a state requirement I don't know if it's exclusively limited to local jurisdictions to decide the city's manufactured housing zone which you're referencing was developed a couple decades ago I believe maybe even a little longer with the idea that it would be applied for new parks and there was a desire to have a certain level of density a certain level a setback and as the standards for home construction have changed it's possible that that lot size would no longer fit a standard home so that's one of the reasons there have been no new parks since the 70s so this

[70:02] zone has never been used the way it was designed so there's a lot to be thought about if there is a potential for a new park as to what exactly it should happen with that zoning designation whether it should be modified or not for a new park it certainly does not fit the existing parks very well okay I thought you just add on something to that on what on top of what Jeff had to say our director of housing Human Services so typically a mobile home park is a lot technically a mobile home doesn't sit on a lot so that 3,500 the II referred to in the in the code would be more related or similarly to a single-family home so I think they're more regulated by setbacks and that sort of thing so that's where that would come into play but they don't actually define each unit as a lot okay

[71:02] thank you that helps to make sense of this okay anybody else we are still doing that right yeah okay that's good we got done with the questions crystal I did have a question um mark Robbins brought up the right of first refusal a possibility could you let us know the status and the city of Boulder for any type of mobile home park or manufactured home park acquisition is there a firt right of first refusal for the city or a non-profit there is not I actually bring this up because the city of San Francisco that a member of their Board of Supervisors has proposed to preserve existing affordable housing that there be a right to first refusal and then have a fund set up for for nonprofits to

[72:01] then tap into that and I think it would be worth following that I'll try to send out a link okay anything else for anybody so we tried to structure the discussion around these three questions with the first being looking at what's been collected so far the research that we've done the community input how we've compiled it that raised anything for you do you have any questions about it or any observations you have that you wish to share the second the moving forward from that base we thought since we took this approach we to ask you about it is we tried to identify some principles that would help to move forward discussions around what we're trying to accomplish is that working how does it would you choose different ones do you like the ones that are there would you add any do you think the definitions are accurate or are good guides for decision making

[73:01] and then the third conversation we were hoping to have is how would you help guide us and advise us on cutting down into something that's a first-tier kind of let's move forward with in-depth analysis and prioritization so that's we're trying to structure for the conversation but turn it back over to you to see how you want to take it do you want to just take it line by line one question at a time yeah yes process one line by time let's go one by one so feedback and information collected and issues identified anybody want to add anything I do so I thought you did a fabulous job with so much information and for those of you out there I lived in Boulder Meadows for two years in 2005 2006 so this is an issue that's a big interest to me and and I loved it and I loved

[74:00] living there so one of the things I noticed is there was so much information and I was really trying to give it good attention and one of the things that I thought might help me and then help counsel who has way more volume of information to study than we do is your three principles you had three principles then you had 13 topics of concern and then you have I think nine action areas and for me it would be easier to take in and consider each one if you put everything under your three principles and divided them out that way making sure that you give attention to at least one item in each of the 13 topic areas and of course the night the nine areas and that you also subdivide it by what's easier to do and what's more complicated because it's possible that if you set out a program say for three years two years whatever some of

[75:00] them that are real easy you can do some of the easy ones every year like I just noticed one of them was something about disseminating information that's not complicated process that's just getting it together getting it on the website or notifying people some are really complicated and so it'd be easier I would think for council to prioritize if it were divided in those ways that was just my thought of it would have really helped me because I kept looking back and forth it's like these are all of the 13 topic areas included in the nine year and they pretty much were but I had to do a lot of back and forth so that I just thought that you did a fabulous job and that would help me and hopefully counsel understand it even more so I've been thinking about this and kicking around in my head and to me it seems like one of the biggest concerns is as Boulder has become more expensive people are willing to sacrifice to live here to

[76:00] some degree and what I'm worried about is people living in manufactured housing communities are gonna be displaced by people who are willing probably you know a better means in general but willing to live in something like a tiny home and they then benefit from this awesome resource that we have right now that's supposed to be for an entirely different group of people just because they're more willing to live in a smaller space so it's it's a trade-off between what can be allowed there to increase the vitality like you mentioned but you might be sacrificing pretty much all the affordability out of it so that's kind of my major concern and it does just fit all under the umbrella of gentrification I guess and I think that's the thing that while we're developing a strategy that's the thing we have to curtail the most because so many people want to live

[77:01] here in Boulder that they're willing to make a sacrifice and you know the amount of space that they're gonna take up in order to do that and there's enough people like that who are still pretty extremely wealthy that's that's gonna pretty much wipe out anything we're trying to preserve unless we take some drastic action to prevent that from happening so if I understand correctly I believe you are saying we should not allow different housing types in the existing manufacturing housing communities because it would get rid of the manufactured housing replace it with tiny home or duplex or something that for them what's allowed now is that an accurate understanding I'm not necessarily saying okay that we absolutely have to prevent it at all costs or anything but if you make it an option then you open yourself up to a whole world of different problems that might result may be a consideration of

[78:00] capping or matching so you know if mobile homes are coming in at sorry I keep saying mobile homes I'm old school manufactured homes keep and they're coming in at a certain price point and maybe there's a way to mitigate that so it's not all of a sudden you know $200,000 tiny homes and families moving in and pushing out the vulnerable population yeah I don't want the McMansions of tiny homes to come in and take over all the all the existing they're you know they're still super viable 30 40 $50,000 tiny home options that we're seeing in a lot of different communities that if somebody wanted to opt for that could be a financial viable option for someone so yes I totally I agree with that I think it's something to consider and look at Michael do you have anything you own in it it strikes me from listening to the participation that that living in a manufactured home

[79:02] community can have a bit of a feudal feel to it if not tyrannical and it struck me and I work in the mortgage banking field and I see proposals to finance stuff like this SOI the to return the yields from an investment perspective are are huge and they're they're so big when I look at those things from an investment perspective and see that and is there a little suspect and it strikes me that I'd almost make a broad analogy to I don't know how Colorado regulates the payday loan industry but it's always struck me that the manufactured home communities have largely been like the principles of payday loans applied to housing and there's nothing like you know you can see this of people backed into a corner where they have fewer choices as as the brenda pointed out that you can't

[80:00] just pick up and move down the street you know you can't break your lease and and they know that so I don't know what approaches might be thought through and I don't know what's available with respect to what you pointed out Jeff is we have to operate inside the Colorado law even if we don't like it we have to do that and and the federal law and stuff of what could be done and maybe by what another community like crystal mention our city San Francisco or others have done to to address it because I can't imagine from everything that's been described to me this evening that it would be a situation that would resolve itself on its own yes so I've got a couple of things too and just for everybody that was out there as well I lived at Ponderosa and so I'm familiar as well and I had noticed that most people that all came up here there wasn't any visible anyway but we're

[81:00] able-bodied and we're not I was in a mobile home park where it was largely Hispanic and so that's why I kind of went back to that information collecting and the issues is like in the mobile homes are vulnerable population seniors anybody with that couldn't make it to these meetings I'm just really to me that hundred you know I'm like there's because especially with the Hispanic population a lot of when when we were all meeting it was you know there was a lot of concern over retribution and other things so how do we reach different populations and make sure that they're they've got to see the table and can be heard and so I'm curious about getting those numbers back to see where where that's at and if there's anything that we can do to bolster it diving into this work more

[82:02] and making sure that we're especially you know as seniors and stuff too like if you've been there for 45 50 years and you kind of do feel like you're under the thumb of somebody who can really just control your life that's a scary spot to be so under feedback and information collective for me I'm really really curious about the analytics under those yeah and I will share their they're probably not gonna look like you want them to look but they do look better than they've ever looked before so so I do think that we we went to a lot of new types of efforts with this program and and I think they paid off but when you look at them on paper when you see a handful of Spanish speakers it's probably not going to feel satisfying it felt very satisfying to us because they haven't walked in the door before and they did this time I'm curious with the engagement piece of this in Ponderosa we had ambassadors and

[83:04] maybe finding an ambassador that could go from one mark to maybe another to another yeah and we had door knocking as we said Adam at Orchard Grove and Boulder meadows and that was done by a member of our consulting team who has been working with us all year on specifically that enix engagement okay so she's starting to build some relationships and build some trust marks and we will continue to be investing in that strategy this year and so it's this conversation hasn't stopped with the community as we start to build more relationships will continue to keep talking to people just along those lines the Bari component that's going to be coming in do you know how and if their methodologies are differing from what you've done or you know how their outreach is going along the way so their approach will be initially to mail a

[84:01] survey and also provide I believe a link for people to do it online if they prefer followed up by walking the parts to try and enhance their response rate there as a part of see you they have to follow research protocols and confidentiality has to be maintained in a variety of other protocols they follow to ensure they meet the research guidelines so we won't have access to any of the individual responses they'll provide us with a report we are i we are really hoping that we get a significant statistically significant response rate so that we can have a much better understanding of you know what percent of residents and mobile home parks are fall into various categories there's a lot of different opinions about that based on people's personal experiences and not any really solid data yet also

[85:08] when Adam was talking about if you have tiny homes or if you don't and and and making sure that that's what can be done to address gentrification I think is a good issue on its own and although I wouldn't myself be predisposed to want tiny homes in existing mobile home parks I do see it as a good pilot program and maybe the purchase of a new land and I had mentioned this once to Jeff that Brenda are you aware of the project that they're doing in Longmont with tiny homes for veterans so it's something I can talk to you about it afterwards but it's a fabulous project and it's only taking two years from when someone first donated land for that purpose to win it should be completed and it would be 25 homes for veterans with a main place to do laundry and have community meeting

[86:00] and this and that it's a it's a great many tiny homes projects I'll be happy to talk to you about it afterwards you okay no more comments on that let's move on to draft principles so we have drafted the three while ago three being affordability viability and community we had those defined be very interested in and the utility of this approach from in your perspective and whether there's something missing that you think is important or any other comments you have on how this approach might be applied actually you know I think you've got those right and I would test them by as Judy had suggested in her organization idea I guess I test like tests the public testimony from our forum and

[87:01] other farms and see where they fit under there to make sure that we are speaking the same language as far as when we talk about the importance of community or the viability of a park and the maintenance and the issue that was brought up about tree trimming I mean they'll sound insignificant but boy piling all those on together with arbitrariness of regulations and things the community is heard I mean the boulder community is heard over the last 15 years or so and I know the city has done a good job on working on a lot of those but just to test these three areas test it with the public input you're hearing and the issues that were brought up and we developed these principles after the input as opposed to before we went out there so we took all that impotant we

[88:00] sat down and we tried to find what we thought the three most common themes were that we heard good I'd like the the way you've laid this out overall I find it you know succinct and appealing I'm the affordability it strikes me manufactured home communities are I was so naturally affordable compared to like low income housing tax credit whether it's a four nine percent tax credit although what did you find interesting is that in the tax credit stuff there's so much oversight and regulation from the Colorado Housing Finance Authority of cetera to do that that it speaks to my observation anyway the relative efficiency of of manufactured home committees there are communities that they don't have that sort of oversight burden and stuff and there's still they still really work it's pretty impressive in a very natural way on the viability I

[89:03] I think it's a very nice way to frame viability to capture that the one piece that tends to linger in my mind a lot that was touched on by the public comment this evening is infrastructure working with some people and having looked at a number of deals and like the rock USA stuff and others one of them biggest deal breakers was infrastructure with sticker shock of and it they can be quite easily manipulated numbers and I think we heard some public comment about that that you know it starts out it you know it's 200,000 in the next thing yo it's a million and no it's a million five and and how they arrived at those numbers and just to what extent they're reliable I'm really encouraged by the city's attention to that with the infrastructures you over study you did just one short piece and I think everybody sort of realizes this but without the affordability component you

[90:00] won't have a community you won't have viability like obviously there's a foundational piece here that clearly needs to be addressed and I hope we can do a bunch of things in viability and community simultaneously but as we found in Boulder it's not gonna be the same people in the same city if we don't address the affordability issue first and we're just kind of going down the line I would add you know the question again being the principles to guide prioritization of actions I I agree I think those are a great foundation and everything that I was that you guys have mentioned already as well as what we're hearing from people I feel like all fits underneath it didn't feel like there was anything that popped out I do like the idea of a homeowner Bill of Rights

[91:00] I do like heading towards something like that so that there's a way to level that playing field a little bit so that there there's some empowering because I mean you've got two owners and together separate they don't work together so figuring out how to work together and again yes how you prioritize them I feel is great yeah I just want to add that I I like the three principles and I think the additional considerations can be a lens through which you look at each particular item but I don't think any of them need to be a specific principle I think of mirroring Adam on this I feel like affordability is the overarching piece and my concern is that

[92:00] you know different levels of interests from different pieces of the community some of it not necessarily from the manufactured housing residents themselves may impact some of those affordability pieces and I think it's just we really need to prioritize that as the overarching concern and then looking at it I hope we would take a big bite approach to it in the sense that for instance historically they have been working as Michael says they seem to be efficient but I do have concerns about relying on the history versus potentially what we're seeing now is the changes in that marketplace from an investment strategy standpoint and what people are obviously kind of bringing a focus so I would hope that we when we look at the affordability piece we are looking at those big pieces of first right of refusal and and looking at what the what the investment strategies out

[93:01] there that might work counter to our community goals are and the last question then feedback on the issues and actions to be analyzed and prioritized so we are intending to take your feedback and what we've heard use this approach to evaluate each of the actions that has listed to identify a recommended set for council to consider so if you have any additional you've already given some comments on that but if you have any additional support for how we might do that I would really appreciate hearing it we will show that your input has shaped what we take to council then so it seems like

[94:03] the focal point to me based on what I've heard what the community brought to us is trying to get ownership within the community at some level seems to be paramount some sort of bargaining ability and whether that be buying it you know as the city of Boulder or just forcing some sort of legislative ability on these places where you know the community members actually have a say in what happens in their community I know one who created their own HOA but they don't have any actual authority within the community it's just a community group essentially you know we have to provide a structure where there's accountability on the on behalf of the owner without that one of the most disturbing things I heard was

[95:00] essentially their right to assemble has been taken away from they can't even use their own community space like that is absurd to me that we can allow that as a city - yeah so some sort of structure I would hope you know ultimately that it does sound like from what little I've heard that the best opportunity is to have it owner owner occupied by the people who live there but short of that we need to figure out some other situation yeah that's that's my main piece of feedback so again I thought you did a really good job of calling out the concerns that people brought to you and your possible potential solutions I I think that my suggestion with the 45 or 46 or whatever that you listed would be to you're gonna love this go big and and

[96:01] that they're all really important and that you're gonna have to make some prioritizations and again I suggest you you sort every every principle out into easy and hard but then you prioritize for like a three or four year plan of what's actually doable starting with the most crucial and I certainly agree with what everyone's saying is the most crucial is the affordability aspect obviously if they're not viable if people get ownership of the property and then have no sewers you know that work you know I mean so obviously all these things need attention I'd like to ask if it's possible besides the ones you listed if those of us on have who wish to within the next week can listen I want to listen to our the video of the public comment and add a few things and if we can do that within the next week that would be super and

[97:00] yeah that's my comment on that and we're capturing those two all right you do our best to address as well but we'd love to hear your interpretation of them thank you Jeff anything this is kind of actually looping back a little bit to the first of your questions but just with the community feedback piece as I look at the nine steps we being at step four one of the things that kept popping into my head as I was listening to the public participation to everybody you spoke to us and the questions that were rolling through my head was we're going to come up with some options or ideas on how to proceed and recommendations is there a manner in this where we have a secondary feedback loop like mine my thing is you hear me harping on a lot sizes I'm trying to wrap my head around that and like how will density how can it impact this either positively or negatively but

[98:00] what's the feeling of the residents as far as the density and that kind of thing so if we come up with these things do we have something in here that will allow us to re-engage at some point yeah that's part of step six the evaluation of the so once we sort of prioritize things with your input and with counsels input well we'll take those back out to the community and balance the monthly community the end result of this effort a list of work plan items that have to then be structured and initiated and there will be almost certainly opportunities for people to help shape each individual item as it moves forward if to the extent that it lends itself to any public engagement one of the pleasures of getting to know the residents has been that many of them have been working in these arenas for many many years and are extremely knowledgeable about what opportunities exist about what types of things of course would make their daily lives

[99:00] better and so we find great value in having them in the room with us for these discussions it's a two-parter if if people out there want to still communicate with us anything since we have a week or so to get things to Brenda and Jeff you know you can email us and and then also have we answered your questions enough or do you have things you want to ask us further about no I appreciate the input it's been very helpful for people who are watching or listening the email address that's been referenced is housing advisory board at Boulder Colorado gov and this project can also be followed along on the website if you the easiest way to do it is to go to the city of Boulder website Boulder Colorado gov and then in the search box put in

[100:00] manufactured Housing Strategy and it'll take you to the page and you can sign up for email updates on how the strategy work is going and that's I think one of the reasons many people were here tonight but we hope that people continue to sign up for it and follow the project well I think I can say for all of us we appreciate you guys coming down and participating in this and we look forward to going through this process with you and again feel free to email us any questions or concerns that you may have as we move forward so thank you for sharing and if everybody's okay with it a five minute break before we can move on to matters from the board okay thank you everybody [Applause]

[109:52] ready yeah Michael okay can we ask

[110:01] everybody if you could bring that outside or downstairs thank you so much for coming we greatly appreciate it thank you and we'll be back in session [Music] and we have matters from the board and the first one up is I can't read committee project liaison reports so we have the Public Engagement purpose statement and I ask you Jeff to put that up on the screen please it's at the very end of our packet so just as a little background when we're going through the committee's determining whether or not we want to keep or get rid of them we decided that we should give the engagement committee a chance to give a

[111:00] purpose statement and figure out exactly what we're trying to accomplish and this is the next step in that so we provided this to you guys tonight to read over give us feedback so we can adjust it if needed if we all like it as is then we'll try to approve it tonight but we essentially want to adopt this we stated it as the year of 2019 because we should probably reassess boards or sorry committees on a yearly basis so this would essentially approve the committee for the remainder of 2019 to be reassessed again in 2020 so if you want to just take a second and read through it and we can have a little discussion about what you think and while everybody's reading it I'll also add most of this came out of one or two or three meetings that we had with Brenda and Sarah Huntley so this has been we've made a few changes since then

[112:00] we cut out a couple things that we didn't think we're realistic to do in a year but most of this has been looked at by the two of them well I think it's awesome I think you guys have put together a good piece there's only one piece of it that it's a personal thing for me like right at the point where it says decreased divisiveness I always try and incentivize the positive and remove the negative words so for me decreased visum ness what would be the flip of that and we would be increasing codification this is different than [Music] consensus maybe would that work for people increased participation and

[113:02] concealed consensus maybe yeah we are addressing tone we want a more open and engaging participatory but we'll find a word for that we don't have to we don't have to do that now but do you want to you want to go down to the the first goal there unless anyone else has feedback I'm Albert Mike I don't I don't have any other top part where you get to the bottom I'd like to suggest that if your size different oh yeah how about on the ground to support civil civil discourse yeah like that civil civil discourse support civil discourse that's a good would we all go with that that's

[114:00] yeah that's right thank you then the other thing that I thought of do you think you need to say anything around here in addition to the city's public engagement process yes that's good to community and the engagement committee was created to include community input on housing issues in addition to the city it public engagement process it something like that yeah are you getting this down I am oh good thank you okay going down to the goal real quick first goal okay so for me I'm apprehensive about the strategies with the quarterly newsletter an opinion piece especially the opinion piece and

[115:03] it'll I'll also kind of be saying the same thing when we get to the next the letter to the editor is for me when we're talking about being inclusive and and the civility and bringing people into our board if our board is putting out a quarterly opinion piece that to me has red flags so I think you're mixing up the word opinion with we just want to put a letter to the editor in is it's a 750 word one instead of the 300 word one we want to get a longer piece about housing issues and they call it the opinion piece and the paper and so it's just you know it's not our opinions it's what we've done in the past quarter yeah it's informational about what we've done so it's fact might be coming up maybe just word that to clarify

[116:03] is an opinion piece of paper but the goal of that is to yeah think of it as the tactic being we want to write about what we've done in the past quarter and what's coming up on a quarterly because just like quarterly long-form letter to paper okay so let's pause for just one second so we're starting to talk about what that opinion piece is but we also have a I think we also need to step back and see if we all want to do that sure and then if that's something we're interested due to in doing as under the engagement piece then we can maybe talk about the structure of it does that sound like right Jeff am I on course just you're my good litmus test if I'm off based on something but it seems like we'd want to make sure that so to me when you're talking about the goal

[117:01] creates clear efficient accessible communication processes and material to share information about the board how it operates and upcoming decision points and then the strategies being something ongoing so can you explain to me what's the difference between so the newsletter we're trying to create an email list and you want a quarterly newsletter out and then the opinion piece is just a longer piece that would go into the newspaper I maybe probably pretty similar to one another okay so should we chunk those two out do we want to start first with talking about whether or not that's something the board agrees to and wants to before we're done absolutely because keep in mind all these would be approved by the board because they would all have all of our names on them this is just sort of the tactical level that we were hoping to achieve and we thought this would be two good tactics in the ongoing

[118:01] section to accomplish the goal we hope Corey if you scroll up or is this Jeff on yours if you scroll up what's underneath the specific for public hearings I'm sorry down okay this that's the next goal all right so with this goal so then would we want to make a motion then on this goal and we would separate out these two items because one may get approved the other one might not or they both get approved or just add one things I could as far as Adam had mentioned that we would put everybody's name in it if there's a circumstance where somebody doesn't want their name on it for a particular reason I think that should be okay - we can always go to just add them and I from the engagement committee if somebody feels that way or something I don't want to in a position is it is it maybe another thing for discussion that it could just be signed the engagement community from the housing advisory board is there a reason we want to put our name and utilize that space for

[119:00] every time we put this out my concern is that in some way so I can see I mean this is the piece that jumps into my head immediately is it's kind of a letter to the you know a council letter situation again or a recommendation situation again where each one of these things the newsletter in the opinion piece and I would kind of suggest that to review and agree upon as a board but I think I think it should go out as a board or peace which means we have to somehow reach consensus on it if we're going to fulfill our goal so that's just the challenge that I potentially see so what I what I'm hearing then is I if we agree

[120:06] to do these pieces and when we say nuts and bolts I go to and my thinking the who what where when why leaving out any filler to it and that it's the same in the movies letter as the opinion piece and am i hearing you correctly when you say that is okay so I first of all feel that those are two different things a quarterly newsletter and a quarter in the daily camera and whereas a newsletter you want it to be really brief and with bullet points so the people who are reading a lot of things can read it when people read call it opinion pieces or letters to the editor in the paper it's a little different thing that's not like putting a posting of a meeting or strictly informational you want to be a little friendly and chatty in it and so I think there are

[121:02] two different two different animals and we can vote on them separately if you like but I consider them different yeah it was just I want to make sure that I'm conveying that this isn't gonna be about who was right or who write it is the decisions that we made you know if we if what we talked about the decisions we made on them and the upcoming things like those are the things we want to cover and it's strictly so people know what happened and what is going to happen no no editorializing right editorialize when you say how did we get to this position how do you some minds how do you some eyes what we were all discussing in a way that doesn't have opinion in it even I'm saying I get what you're saying so that's to me a slippery slope of how do we surmise what we've done without it without it

[122:03] being influenced but individual submission will have to be approved by the whole board on consensus so that's how you do it that's how you Michael I I did two things on one was well I agree with Nathan and the it's difficult to avoid an interpretive piece of that I'd like to I need to keep my name off that you know as far as it in that way you know if there's not consensus which is fine you know I'm fine with it being signed housing advisory board I'm fine with it being but I'm it could be an issue and it could be an issue issue for my employer as well and in my name beyond that piece and and they don't deserve a vote you know clearly at all and and I'm a quarterly piece when I find a lot of times with quarterly newsletters or monthly newsletters or weekly newsletters is you then have this quarterly does deadline whatever it is

[123:00] we clear quarterly and sometimes you don't really have anything to say there's no real news and then you feel a sense to we better create some news here because we want to have news and and then you have this kind of obligation and this kind of anxiety about doing that when sometimes there isn't and I'm not saying we shouldn't do it only that that do we have enough news in a quarter to really do that and I guess it's Adam you and Judy that would be undertaking this clarification me to write it for a quarterly newsletter and write for a quarterly newsletter we can say the housing advisory board because that's our decision for submitting something to the newspaper because there rules we just can't put the housing Advisory Board we have to put some names on it I believe we can't just put the board pretty sure it's a single individual who right submits right okay yes crystal um

[124:06] Jeff is housing a division of the planning department no oh it isn't okay housing in Human Services is a depart and planning is I can't remember the official departmental name now but it yeah we were part of we're planning housing and sustainability but earlier this year the city manager reorganized the departments to housing and Human Services being together so I bring that up because planning has a newsletter it's an email newsletter that comes out often twice a month I think that's the goal and list and if you don't subscribe you should subscribe you can go to the planning departments website and I don't know if housing has anything like that listing what the me it's generally will

[125:00] list what the meetings are that are coming up what actions from planning that are then going to council so I found really informative to keep up to date it's got all the you know the links that are the live links that work and take you to exactly what you want I was hoping you'd say you were within the planning department and then you could just maybe even have a goal of submitting information but it's an interesting question of what why the housing wouldn't have something similar like that well it's a communication strategy that's employed to accomplish certain goals the department the planning department as a lot of things that are of interest to the public and have chosen to meet that need using this tool I don't know if with the new housing and Human Services Department structure whether that discussion has happened or not could

[126:00] certainly bring it up it'd be interesting to know that mm-hmm I was just gonna say I mean as we're going through this I the way I'm kind of leaning is I think a quarterly newsletter is great in finding out what that format is for getting it out to the public and how will do that and whether there's you know some other means that we could even employ on the opinion piece I kind of lean with Michael on it and say well in some ways it would we would have I think that's an important thing to do actually when we feel that we're moving into space that is really important and it's important for the public to be aware of it and what we're doing and our perspective on it again of what's going on for us when it has enough meat to it I think we really should do it but I don't know that I would tie it to a quarterly condition

[127:02] and that may also allow us to give more focus to that thing and and put it forth so not to tarnish my own strategy here but we also don't have between the two of us enough ability to put in quarterly opinion pieces and then additional outreach pieces because the cameras rules are more within a year less I'm sure I'm gonna have plenty of stuff that I want to say personally to the city of Boulder that may be restricted in it in a sense yeah so I'm bleeding towards your what you're saying right now I just want to make sure that the people who really want to be engaged yeah are getting engaged and that does lean towards newsletter and I would really I almost feel like we don't answer this yet with us and we see if we can get it

[128:00] through the housing like planning does because to me you guys would be there's so much happening under housing and it's such a big issue for Boulder it seems like that form of communication and putting something out would make sense plus it then the one area that I get sticky on is again opinion and and if it's something then that ends up creating contention with it within us because we can't find the right language or something like that we're what are we trying to remove this civil discourse return this course so I'm curious I'm really curious about that I'm with Jacques on the fact that I don't think it's a quarterly but that if we it's kind of like have you ever belonged to a newsletter list and it keeps coming out and keeps coming out and pretty soon you just like you don't even you don't even look read it anymore even though there might be good information on it but it'd be cool that

[129:01] if we do have something that comes up enough and it's important and it merits at that time then we would draft some form of a structured format that we agree to in this process again that we haven't defined in this area because this is new so having some type of a format of the nuts and bolts who what where when why and and then put it out for engagement so that way then when people do see it they get it something unique full important that's just my thought so so what I'm hearing relatively is first up we should see City what the potential might be there and then after oh that's the first step and actually so the quarterly newsletter

[130:01] I mean whatever you guys decide or sign I really don't care but just so you know informational e we've been collecting names of all the people who have emailed us and we were thinking of besides posting it on next door whatever a link to it of actually emailing all the people who we already have to start to try and build our own email list as those would be people who'd be most naturally interested in us so I think getting on a city website is fine if that's the way the city goes but if they don't or until they do that would be our first target population and then to build on that so that begs another question is who is managing this email list and who has ownership of it because that to me seems like it brings up some stuff too mm-hm like what well I know that in the very beginning of our board we were getting inundated with I wouldn't I guess it's not trolling but Robo emails that were

[131:03] coming out and I think that if we're going to ask people to leave their emails with us it should be something that's kept with the city and not us as individual order members so if it's an official communique from us it would probably have to go through the city considering where it city board right it's not like I can manage my own personal have email list right on MailChimp even though we've collected these right exactly we've collected these what kind of area gray are we getting into if we start having them and we start as a board individually on our own well number one it would have to be an opt-in we can't just start sending them even right yeah totally mm-hmm I'm not sure of the answer to that my assumption would be the desire even if there's not a rule about it would be to have some city support for and involvement in such an email approach

[132:01] I'm thinking you know the housing the Planning Department is on the list of city people who enrolls letters that you can subscribe to you can get a newsletter on whatever you're interested in in the city of Boulder Louis that list except for housing and housing the webpage has got so much interesting information I mean I'm almost thinking if you did do a newsletter I'd remove the quarterly remove that but if you did do on both quarterly opinion pieces and newsletters they kind of be as needed but if you did do a newsletter how about starting off with some of the things that are on the webpage I mean the affordable housing data dashboard is fabulous and to do something that highlights that it's real easy pick this piece you put it on maybe you have a couple of things that you want to highlight and the goal would be to

[133:02] educate the public to what's out there I mean people have said oh we approve so many single-family homes well guess what we actually don't you can see how many units and what type every year that have been approved etc etc and then the bolder housing action plan I mean I'm just kind of looking down it all the good stuff on this website it is a little bit harder to find all your different committees and when they meet that's a little bit harder but and then hab has their own websites so it seems like there be a lot of information to just get out to the community I don't know that's just my that's what I would love to have just come unto my desktop and and see oh this is kind of interesting I didn't even know they had

[134:00] a dashboard whatever you're looking at thank you it seems to me that there's a need to kind of sit down and with the communication staff and think through a communication strategy yeah that can see to what extent what is already in place could be used to what extent there's something new that's necessary how does a lack of a better word kind of editorial control work in that situation you know you I'm hearing a mixed set of potential content sources of content for communication to the community about housing issues some being specific to what have is doing some not and I don't have the answers for what the best practices would be but our communication staff would be better suited to help with that so Judy do you want take these to a vote do you have any from what I'm hearing we're gonna get defeated in

[135:01] passing these two things I'm fine I mean I I'm not sure if defeated but it sounds like there's interest in as needed or the newsletter after finding out how to do that and maybe starting with meeting with communication which we can't do till March 11th tell us that it gets back but that's fine okay that's that's what I like for the tagging or for the next action item on that list we're gonna leave that as is and I want to move down to go back up Jeff sorry we're still on that one goal move this long faster specific for public hearings so here we came up with different engagement levels based on how big the issue is that we're dealing with so that first level of engagement it's just staff saying hey here's here's what's happening on our list it's what happens every single time right second level of engagement we would want one of those letters to the editor and if we have stakeholders that have emailed us in the past we'd want to let them know

[136:01] that something regarding what they're interested in is going to be happening much like the affordable housing resident concerns email that we're going to talk about right after this that third level is add staff to us try to get us on be heard bolder for for a comparison this this is what we did when we were asking for the for the community to provide just housing solutions that was the level of engagement that we were working for there so that gives you a little background on that so yeah so what we're asking for is to sort of adopt these three levels of age so survivable being adding working with city staff be heard bolder and social media yeah okay so not next do but social media social media yep we utilize

[137:00] staff to post on Facebook and I don't know if they do Twitter or not I guess so if I may I think pretty most items on what you'd have a public hearing are likely to be established city projects each of which typically has its own engagement and communicate Asians approach so I'm not sure what level of availability there is to modify that it's going to depend on the project in many cases you'll be working on the projects a community benefit if it comes to you that's going to have us an involved approach to letting people know already so you might want to think about what you're trying to accomplish and how you would work with project staff to understand what they're trying to do and integrate any additional components that you are interested in I absolutely hear you there but this is also for like the affordable resident housing concerns

[138:02] that's one where it's not on anyone's agenda we are holding the public hearing so it's up to us what our level of engagement is going to e and up to staffs availability obviously we're not going to we can't compel you to do anything so we're just going to ask real nice if we find it to be a third level of importance well and also though the city managers of those particular projects may have their own communication output we'd want to liaised with them in some way to make sure that the public hearing that we were having got as much notice for the potential of engagement yes yes mm-hmm absolutely so any problems with this or any suggestions I'm sorry any civil discourse to happen before we

[139:00] go into the next goal just do you guys yeah to adopt it yes okay um so moved well we'd have to make a motion I'll make a motion yeah unless you had any pretty discussion no if the only thing is the changing from be her Boulder to social media be her Boulder is the website you're thinking next door we heard Boulder and then comments of social media okay I moved to adopt this these three levels of engagement for public hearing my second just time for a matter of process Cory does he have to be clear about a B and C and say that in the motion who are you I don't think that's necessary there's a sufficient record of what the three levels are and judi second is so Adam

[140:03] made the motion Judy seconded it all in favor any other discussion oh sorry any other discussion all in favor and it's unanimous so my question was then do you have other ideas for engagement for the public or do you feel this is sufficient for the time being and we can always review this at a yeah I feel it's sufficient the time being and I think because we have so much up in the air right now it's sufficient for me as well great we'll try to make these other ones a little short so this next one just feel free to read it for a second

[141:13] so my thoughts when I see these to me they're great ideas and suggestions but or and when I go to looking at marketing strategies I look at what the initiative is first so if our initiative is that we want to reach the Latino population and we're gonna go a tendon event and set up a booth or something like that so to me every strategy is different based on the initiative and what we're trying to attach so I look at these a night and I'm like the I love the goal the potential strategies are great but they don't really mean anything to me until I see that the initiative that we're tackling gotcha in regard to this this

[142:04] is totally a broad goal and we would have to tailor each one to the specific group or trying to outreach but I wanted this in there in there just at least the goal so that it's essentially it leaves the door open for us to do things like we discussed maybe a panel hearing when we have like a light a light agenda so that would just you know it's just put it out there that we can we could do these types of things as a group and so much more I mean I think of strategies of the farmers market and you know there's so many different fun opportunities especially like when events set up like when Ray back had their meeting it would have been great if we would have had a table or brochures or something to get people information you know if we were organized enough in front of that or

[143:00] something like that you know again identifying and looking at what the opportunities are and then looking at how can we reach the people that are there so just for the time being we can can we just put like anak cetera at the end of this are you looking to adopt that and you want a motion to adopt the potential strategies or just the goal mainly the goal the potential strategies are just in there is samples yeah I stand behind I appreciate the goal so we just put them in there so people have some sort of idea so that begs the question in process again do we want to go back and put the first goal in as a motion and adopt create clear efficient accessible communication process and material to share information about the board how it operates and upcoming decisions so I think as a committee we can adopt these goals and leave off the specific strategies so we get to the point where

[144:00] we have identified something we want to do something about does that feel that makes sense to me and for the purpose of brevity can we look at all three goals then and go for adopting all three of the goals Atwater we can make amendments to any that we need to okay can we slide down Cori then to the next cool just real quick do you want us to remove those other strategies and we'll just look at the goals except for one thing if something comes up that we want to have a public hearing comes up before we get this decided where we want to have which we've discussed at lots and lots of meetings that we want to have some form of conversation that's not just people putting out their complaints into the universe but people actually trying to find common ground that would be the first the first strategy and the one above is that something then we would need to bring way ahead of time and get that voted on specifically yes I think so yeah I mean for me I would love to

[145:01] see yeah the outreach one or two board members trying to I don't know how often is reasonable but I'm like God once a month you know whatever but to get out into the community get out from behind this and just sit down and talk to these people like I would like to have had a discussion with the people who were here tonight and I think that's gonna be incredibly valuable to us to put together a good record and didn't Brenda say this goes back to the discussion about blasting the email addresses because she promoted it on her list that she has for building bridges correct promoted this tonight's uh-huh I don't know if she didn't know because that was our largest turnout so somebody's list got hit right so we have a project email list with over one hundred some-odd people who expressed an interest so that's the email list she I remember her referencing okay

[146:01] it may have she may have done others I don't know I also talked to some of those members out there who spread the word via themselves so okay looking at this last call here so the last goal highlight accomplishments and share both quantitative and qualitative progress points related to housing goals so are we saying highlight haves accomplishments and share both quantitative and qualitative progress highlight the engagement community's accomplishments what are we highlighting yes it would be haps okay so we're highlighting haves accomplishments and share both quantitative this takes me back to goal one and this quarterly update essentially which because if it is have right part of me says well I'd you know

[147:02] I'd like to highlight the accomplishments that the community meaning council has actually accomplished around these things but if we're talking about have here um that might be anyway if we're talking about hab then to me that takes that right back to that newsletter piece like this is to me essentially a piece of that first goal in that first newsletter but it's okay as a standalone you know goal but I could see it being wrapped into so the I think the thing to focus on here is the quantitative and qualitative progress points so like at the end of the last year you asked how much engagement that we actually get you know and that's sort of a baseline measure of our successes are we in fact getting more community members to speak to us and share their their housing you know concerns or

[148:00] anything about housing really so that that's just where this was kind of leaning towards the accomplishments bird I also have a little bit of confusion about this one we actually stole from from them from staff when we originally talked about this but we want to show to some degree like hey you know this board is worth having because we're providing some sort of benefit to the community and we just want to find a way this is where your input comes in as to how we can do that and make sure we're assessing ourselves and decide if we're actually doing a good job yeah go ahead I think I also just want to add that this was something that the city suggested that Brenda and Sarah suggested and that we've talked a lot about about having a feedback loop and this is one way of us assessing whether we're going in the right direction and what we can do to enhance that if we're not increasing as much as we'd like I

[149:03] love feedback loops and I agree but this begs the question or end this begs the question that we then have to set goals at the beginning of the year and we have to say because if we're gonna quantify and qualitative progress on something then we have to define what we're quantifying and qualifying so that means that in the beginning of the year we would have to agree kind of like what City Council's doing which we already know we're following the work plan so for following the work plan and they say they have these let's just say ten goals then you know again the process would be us defining how our goals fit into their goals and and then we can measure it at the end of the year so I want everyone to think about this a little bit with

[150:00] their engagement lens so I think the level of success is actually not attributable to what council thinks of us but what the community thinks of our engagement process then wouldn't we be pulling them yes so okay so then that's a different and so what we want what you're proposing then is holing the people that have contacted us one option or one route of yeah going about that that would be an ideal world that might be a little tough but hopefully finding a mechanism to do something like that so so far Zack could pull up two things for us right he could pull up how many people visited our website and how many people attended meetings or something like that watched YouTube watched YouTube so we can do that we can also count how many people attend our meetings and starting with this one you know and in that quarry but we certainly

[151:06] can we certainly can count how many people spoke at meetings for sure and I think those are the only ones we can do that are reasonable but we can see I I think that what we should do rather than establishing we want to grow by 10% over what it was last year I think we should go from what we had what we collected from 2018 see what we get from 2019 and then make our goals from 2020 from that by comparing the two I don't I'm not sure I think it's necessary to come up with that I'm not sure what other goals we can realistically gather all together and be totally unaccountable right right or we could see I'm glad you clarified that that these were hams goals because I took it I said we were going to evaluate councils calls which which would be dangerous but quite fun more

[152:15] interesting business and other people's business that's right that's right so your if you scroll down back down you're just going to evaluate the community engagement goals yeah but we have to have the goals yeah you know I I think it's a lot more interesting actually at some point are you going to evaluate the hab Housing Board goals and a lot of things fit under this maybe it's an end-of-the-year kind of report and then the other is the work plan cuz they're you know the the planning work plan is super loaded this year your work plan which is beautiful the housing work plan

[153:00] I was just scrolling around it all the stuff you have available if very loaded - and then you know those are that's when I look at I understand the community engagement gold but at some point it would be nice to actually tick down you know and be able to list all of this as a year-end maybe it's your attachment to your to the next letter to the City Council the annual letter you have all of these things that you were engaged in I don't know that's out wordy but it's a little bit more inside you know you can also have rather than a newsletter you could have be heard bolder and then you actually have some information some facts and quantitative information so can I propose that it seems like we're not clear right and that we're hitting on a few different things so maybe since we kind of have that gap next next meeting as well as

[154:02] that it gives us a time to pause relook at what we just talked about and maybe putting like people could shoot up some ideas to Corey or something like that of [Music] you know or if you go back and you rethink it because I think you can see what's happening there and I think you can you would be able to tiny point of clarification yes just keep in mind these are all engagement related things yeah and that begs a question then do we want to just do we because I think it's great I mean Adam and I talked at one point where I was like where the data analytics F of our page who's hitting what do we have demographics all that and so that's what kind of started this conversation around it is so maybe more discussion over because we're gonna ultimately do this with every committee right we've talked about the format of

[155:00] committees setting up what's our scope what's our goals if we have a committee and what's the feedback loop and how do we know at the end of it so this kind of came from that discussion we're doing what you asked but I think me that's our first time doing it right painful but yeah I mean it's you know this is what we get to flush out is okay tightening it up a little bit and figuring out for this committee then and then we have the discussion around do we want the board the board to have goals or not where are our goals just the city goals and and we just focus on the committee to me Eileen even while it's coming out of my mouth that we have scope and goals and a feedback loop on our committees but that our have as a whole is following the city work plan and our goals are their goals yeah I mean I again the lens of this for me what

[156:03] you've presented is the community engagement committee piece and so from that perspective I think that this is kind of necessary and a valuable piece of of having a committee and understanding what the communities are there for and how they're performing so it makes perfect sense to me as it sits the discussion about hab as a board and if we want to say community housing goals which brings council into it I think those are actually two valuable spaces for us to also look at it and say how are we doing how are we progressing on housing but there are different discussion than this one right now so can I ask you a question that when you say you're okay with this under the lens for community for engagement you're okay with all three goals and even though we haven't defined the goals and do I understand you correctly the

[157:05] accomplishments and share qualitative and quantitative progress points related to engagement efforts mm-hmm you know or the you know engagement committee's efforts yeah I'm absolutely fine with all three of these okay and what about by win so meaning is this going to be done quarterly is it done yearly and what are we looking at yeah so I was we met year late because that's where we said this is for two nineteen at 2019 these are the goals for 2019 so we'd be collecting the goals after 2019 ends we would a stack but what I I'm wondering if we couldn't just have a straw vote to see how many people are predisposed to vote for all the goals

[158:01] without this potential strategies just the goals themselves like okay so who would vote yes for just a straw poll if we for adoption of all three goals M&A I don't think there's enough clarity and my personal is that it I think we could drop off the last goal condense the to the two goals and create one mission statement scoped it and put strategy or put the timelines who what where does that make sense yeah I suppose for me I I agree with you essentially at this point just asking about the goals themselves that's that's one piece for me so I can say yeah I can vote for that I also agree I think we could consolidate three into into one but you know this piece and then what I think the next step of that is saying okay these are our goals now how are we going to do this quantitative and qualitative analysis of what's going on and how are

[159:01] we gonna scope and manage it so okay so I'm feeling those are things we can work on and those would be the next steps that Adam would do but since there were four people who in a straw poll were interested in accepting the three goals I move that we accept just the three goals with with the word changes that you suggested for clarification I second that to adopt the three goals any discussion I'm definitely open to consolidation I just feel like we already have the basis of what we're looking for here so we can just pass them and do some wordsmithing we just want to make sure that we're doing our jobs that the committee is there for the purpose and that we have some guiding principles which is what I feel like

[160:01] this is did you just say guiding principles because you're always fighting me and every time I talk about guiding principles I figured if I use the word you look so this is a personal promise that will bring this back consolidated but with the same feeling to it okay thank you so ready for a vote Oh Jeff you have a question mark on your face do we have the somebody captured the edits because as I understood it the motion was to adopt these with some edits is that and maybe we don't want to go as strict his emotion then because what they're saying is adopting all three goals and that Adam feels look comfortable that he gets that we could the next step being convincing them down editing tighting him up and putting the

[161:01] scope on him with a date that to me argues for hey we've had a good conversation we got some feedback let's incorporate it into another version bring it back and see if everyone's okay that's how I'd go too but yeah and that actually I I don't want to promise to consolidate them I I like the three goals and and four people seem to like them and we certainly don't have the potential strategies it needed a few words I think to clarify and the big clarification was to highlight accomplishments and share both qualitative and quantitative process related to Habs engagement committee okay so your motion still on the table it was second it's a weekend vote and she wants your what you're saying is if I want to keep all three goals the exact same way that it is and that's my motion on the table and I don't want to have to convince them down or do anything yes okay to change housing housing right okay so we will vote on

[162:01] that all in favor aye Michael Adam Judy so everybody but me I'm the nay less you're gonna vote for it they're having for me I know well I'm gonna try to find some sort of consensus after this but for right yeah this is it Corey do you have what you need you'll be hearing from the engagement committee again soon how about that which is also a debate 43 so for a time check just so that we're aware of where we're at yeah I'm gonna make this hopefully a lot shorter than this last one because I I think the other agenda items are far more interesting to discuss affordable housing resident concerns we discussed with Jeff a little

[163:03] bit about scope and what's coming up that might be beneficial to lump into this so originally we have the affordable housing and resident concerns public hearing scheduled for the February meeting our suggestion is to move that back probably to the April 24th meeting because there's an HOA survey that's out right now and that's not gonna be returned probably until mid to late March so we want time to receive that and process that and that HOA survey has a lot to do with the affordable the affordable know what is it ownership issue that came up recently so we want to make sure we get that feedback and that information in house before we hear from everybody

[164:00] also we think it's important to sort of rebrand it and from resident concerns to a much more inclusive tell us about your experience as an affordable housing resident or an affordable housing owner that way we want the good in the bad you know we put a lot of effort into talking about increasing the amount of fordable housing in Boulder we just most of us pass the 20% goal and as part of that we want to hear about the experience and make sure that you know we're doing it the right way because we're gonna put in a whole lot of time a whole lot of money a lot of effort is staff and city to make that goal happen so why not take this a little bit of time we have here assess make sure that it's going correctly and then you know hear from the public about all the goods all the beds and go forward with all that

[165:01] additional information so that's sort of our proposal tweak it away from concerns and more to tell us about your affordable housing experience have it on April 24th for the public hearing yes I just want to add one thing in the meeting Jeff said something that was really cool I thought that it tell me if I'm corrected this that the city is forwarding the 60-day notice or price increases so that will be happening that was one of the things we were very interested in as a board so working with the affordable housing providers we've updated the rental compliance manual to require 60 days notice of rent increases instead of 30 awesome and the final thing I'll say that I forgot this had also really provide the rental providers to come in to that's another group we really want to hear from not just the residents but

[166:00] the providers themselves because they're a huge part of creating more affordable housing in the community as well and managing that affordable housing so that would be the other group that we'd want to invite and get into this April 24th meeting so an all-inclusive sort of Jamboree of affordable housing stuff crystal looks like she has a question yeah I I think you have to be really clear when you advertise this and you talk about it that it's not in lieu of the various residents councils that various affordable housing projects or communities have they've got a resident council is am I not right so some of the rental providers have various mechanisms for people to get involved not all of them there are of course the HOA is that the affordable owners are typically part

[167:01] of but I I think it would be pretty clear that this is something completely different yeah I mean I think being clear on the messaging about what it is is as for any event is important so people can judge whether they want to attend and participate all right so to wrap this up I don't know if we need an official motion but that is my consideration for the board that we move that to the 24th and that will sort of be our big item in hopes that we'll get a couple dozen people at least to come out and tell us about their experiences and yeah so your request of the board is moving that from February 27th to April 24th and include the HOA survey correct okay I don't think we need a motion I think is that feel good for everybody the last part of

[168:02] this is formatting of letters so we submitted this this letter you have in front of you for the affordable housing resident concerns we're not talking about content right now and we got to go through that again now that we've sort of pivoted the intent of it but Mason came up with the who what when where why model and we wanted to discuss as a board what felt better for getting it sort of out to the community I don't want to I don't want to speak for Judy so I'm gonna let her say sort of say why she likes hers and Mason I'm sure you can reiterate why you like the one where why model and then we as a board can kind of decide where we go from there so I look at them as two different models for two different purposes I love what Mason said for certain things for like posting on next

[169:00] door or certain specific goals for letters to the editor we certainly did include the who what when where why but it was more news Ian chatty and I feel that letters to the editor even to get went into print need to be a little chatty and informal and not so stiff and so that's and and I don't know if we need to discuss it a whole lot since we don't have an actual letter to look at right now but I feel those are two different purposes and they're both useful I just wanted to set a precedent here so we don't have to have this conversation every single time that we're sending the letter to the editor felt we're early enough as a board that it's a good time to have a quick hash out I I don't really I could feel it my only reaction is I tend to prefer the readability of brevity it's just a style piece just a personal preference I don't know what works better but I understand I like Judy's the collegiality of a of

[170:02] that type of engagement I find appealing so in other words no opinion so when I read these it looked like you were advertising to different meetings the first one and yeah you can have some brevity in it I totally agree with that but the first one talked about over the summer some affordable housing residents brought up their concerns to the public in the public comment blah blah blah and so that is is that your goal to hear from the HOA and these people because then the second one was shorter but it wasn't clear that the meeting was going to be targeted to the residents concerns

[171:02] that the people that live there or the HOAs or everything it's it read to me like it was more open-ended another discussion on housing issues I love it that it ended come and have us this is your opportunity they have a seat at the table things like that but I I mean read them again it sounded like the the shorter word count was an open-ended meaning and the longer one took a little bit longer to get to exactly why the meeting was being held but it's very clear and you know you even talked about getting the survey in and I mean you don't need to put that but it's a different meeting then you know and the general public to share any observations ideas and solutions again don't get too caught up on Kahn because we gotta go through that whole process again mostly we're talking about

[172:03] formatting so do you prefer it a little longer and a little you know we're talking to the the person or do you want just the fax type of thing is what we're discussing right now I think what do you what do we want to happen as a result of the letter and ultimately you want the people to come here and show up mm-hmm and I think that I like the crisper said that that who what why kind of does that you kind of gets right to the point with with the seat at the table peace yes what kind of compelling emotionally engaging pieces to drive that maybe that maybe that's why that jumped off of me that way me personally I always I always liked things succinct clear brevity because I think sometimes we get lost in an inertia or people are busy and and we read and if Judy's letter absolutely speaks to some people my letter

[173:00] absolutely speaks to somebody I think that the question is is what would we like to adopt as a format do we want to go softer would you call it Chadi Chadi or do we want brevity as we put things in the paper is there a reason it can't be both it's a camera it's I think it's number count where it goes is number count correct you said it had to be well it's 300 words for the letter to the editor but they do have another part in the paper where they say upcoming things in Boulder and we also can create a really short even even shorter than what Mason had to see if we can get it in that part of the paper simultaneously is there a radio station that or a news station that can do a public service announcement which would qualify for arrange a great idea that we haven't checked I disabled is twice it's not uncommon at a messaging strategy it had multiple strategies you're taking it and you don't know which is going to respond and we don't have the privilege of testing so you do both and is there just

[174:02] as and I don't know Jeff is there issues around us asking for public service announcements through this with city boards probably mostly you are appointed by counsel to advise them and have expectations about how you represent the city we'd have to find out from the communication staff I don't know if it's ever come up I assume so but so no swear words on the radio the FCC takes care of that you know I feel like if I imagine this letter to the editor I actually moved to the chattier side of things a little bit and I do also feel though that there's a space for this and there are other venues even more direct more to the point that are informational about you know very specific I feel like

[175:05] if I'm sitting down and reading the paper and I have time to get to the letters to the editor I'm actually looking for a little bit of feel in it so I I appreciate actually that structure for that format why couldn't you have one letter Judy sends a letter under her signature and Adam sends a letter under his signature please could you please reply and vote on your community engagement experience I didn't mean that as a levity type of god oh no I was serious about you could there's no reason we couldn't really do that they're not I mean neither of the community you could have a third one that would speak to different people cause different people respond differently yeah absolutely and for me it was it was that is like that's

[176:00] why I sent this back on a process note out to everybody is like that's where and Adam and I were talking about it this morning it wasn't about the content it's about how do we want the board records the public when we put these things out and what's the format that would be something that we agreed to and consistent and moving forward and if we want to say as a board that there is no format and we just want to make it up every time we can say that as well but I thought I think every time because we're a new board and every time we do these we have to decide because we're not all going to be on this for the rest of our lives so I know right shocking it is shocking feels like that right so trying to decide when by every time we make a vote and every time we do something like this is what is the process that we want to have so be cognizant of that and for me when I read it I shot back with this piece because again I think it just opens up that conversation and that's why I said it's an example let's have a dialogue how do we want to be represented while we're out there I find

[177:03] sometimes when you write joint letters the voice gets lost mm-hmm if you do that so I wanna see that I can see your voice here I can see Judy's voice here and it's a very genuine aspect of that voice and having multiple documents isn't really wrong because that repetition we know in marketing it works it takes all those three times it's why on the editorial board they all have their own little space instead of coming up with one lone letter and opinion on one thing for sure so again I'm not attached I just think it's a conversation we needed to have mm-hmm do we need know it sounds like we have to rewrite this letter anyway all over again quite frankly I think you've got the content here I think you need to keep it a bit shorter and more concise everybody doesn't need to know all of this history and get to the point of

[178:02] making sure the purpose of the meeting what it is or you're going to be disappointing people because they're gonna be coming thinking we're gonna generally talk about affordable housing and it's a specific targeted group like our concerns I guess I should say that you want input on and to understand more fully thank you I'd like to add I had a another audience in mind besides people who just read letters to the editor when we worked on it and that's that I'm not sure if council knows about this and I don't want them to feel preempted or that we're bringing these ideas to Council and so I provided a little more information there because I wanted them to feel at ease about it rather than just write a letter to the editor that they go what's this they're doing then

[179:00] write a letter to council seriously yeah write a letter to council and say this is what we heard this summer because that that makes sense Judy we heard this bat and we're following up this is one of the things that meets your whatever the goal for hab yeah because I do think that's that's trying to put too much messaging in one thing you have one letter carry a message to council and I think if we're going to talk to Council we need to talk directly to council we're engaging people we engage yeah and if we feel that we need to write that letter to council before we put this one in to let them know give them a heads up here's what we're doing I think that that's really appropriate yeah they have lead time plenty of lead time to do that and then is that the engagement committees job to do or does somebody on council do that that writing to Council I mean just somebody on our you add him and I already give you a heads up if you have something that's come up for you you

[180:00] just like Adam was saying I have plenty of letters he's got a right to counsel and his voice if you have something you feel like needs to be voice you should feel comfortable doing that but I think actually I think if it came from the whole board dear city council we wanted to update you on what we're gonna do the second order and one of the things is have this meeting and then that would require all of us buying in yeah and then have something you want to catch the council up on and you feel like you're reaching out person then there they get a little bit confused I mean not not that they get confused I mean I was a council member and if it comes from the whole board and it says we just want to inform you that we're going to have this meeting and then you can even put in the piece that Jeff had mentioned there be a survey that will be back that will you know help inform this and you know this was important we heard from I believe at two separate meetings we heard from

[181:01] residents you can even attach the minutes from those meetings because it lists the people that came to speak just as an update background for council and I'm sure that there is some process to get something in what do they call the packet the used to be the information Hackett but now I guess it's got something else another name the information package I think they just said IP a couple of times the other night - just the IP yeah okay cool Jeff should it be olive half righty that or does it matter what do you think or should nobody I mean what do you think crystal under what circumstances the

[182:01] letters to council you know when you were in council of planning but Wendy I mean there are a lot of well it's actually from my planning board experience that City Council said if there ever any issues that you want to bring up to us or information please feel free to contact tectus well I'm planning board we give a ton of recommendations on legislative things and then we make formal approvals of site reviews and use reviews so we kind of communicate with them a lot but I the only letter I think we've sent is the end-of-year letter but I think in this case you do you don't want to catch them by surprise you want to give them the information you've heard this etc so I think in that you know it would be helpful I'm going again but I got something to say this time I mean to me it seems like how

[183:04] frequently are we going to go out with this outreach into the community in a forum like this and when we choose to do that then it seems to me like we want to assess your concern is that we're taking council by surprise somehow or getting in front of them which they don't want us to do or they do but we if we feel like we're doing that or we have a concern that we're doing that then maybe with each individual and we say you know what we feel as a board with this engagement with the community we should let council know give them a heads up that this is what we're doing this is why we're doing it and this is what the returned feedback is gonna be for them and for us from this process and a rationale for it but I don't know that it needs to be something that we're

[184:00] doing every time necessarily so it almost seems like it's a it's as we choose to move forward on something we just do it and we say okay yeah we we should let council know about this so we're kind of back to initiatives again like whatever whatever you get to then we decide on the strategy yeah Jeff you've had all sorts of phases going on well just try to think it through in light of and you haven't had the conversation yet about councils feedback recently but I was trying to think through how to tie it together and you know some some of the discussion was around exploring new ideas and innovating and how you could frame a communication to Council and certainly engagement came up multiple times in their conversation so how you would if it were me I would want to think about how to build off of that conversation and given some of the feedback also use it as a bit of a check-in to say here's the path we're taking in response to

[185:01] what we heard wanted you to know so with that in mind Michael do you have anything else you want - well the question is is there any reason not to inform Council on that and there's not a risk of I don't think of over communication and why not it's a it's a brief message and communication that's valid and respectful and did that it certainly would avoid anyone feeling like why didn't we know or I wish we would have known or I didn't want to find out that way so I'm gonna be completely honest here I'm a little bit lost about where we're all at in this because we went off of these letters and now we're talking about a letter to count the council about housing and what we know so let me just say when Judy when we were talking about Judy's letter and why she puts so much of this background in and she said I didn't want

[186:01] to catch council by surprise and then I said well then just let them know what you're doing period just send them a little heads-up we're having a meeting we heard this at our first couple of have meetings that this was a an issue for residents okay so we have two different issues can let's deal with these two letters first and then we can talk about or what I hear we're saying is that with these two different type letters we're going to kind of table it and we'll go initiative to initiative through engagement is that what everybody else is understanding it to be yeah what I'm getting here is the letter needs to be to the people we're trying to engage if we need to send a different letter to council the lip and then we're gonna do that we're gonna do that exactly great and I don't I mean personally I don't think you need to decide on which way once you decide on who your audience is for the daily

[187:01] camera piece then you just take out all the rest of it and you know when you trim it down I actually when I read letters to editors 300 words is a lot and so if you take out all this extra background you're almost there quite frankly you've scaled it down quite a bit okay so we don't need to you're clear I'm clear okay and anybody else need to feel like there yes we do need to have a process for doing this letter and if we want it to be hab or just me I would volunteer which letter to City Council about to let them know ahead of time that we're planning this and I'll volunteer to write a draft and have Jeff give me feedback on it so that it seems appropriate for consult and then he can put it out to have so everyone can give

[188:00] their feedback and then we could send it and it sounds like we should send it as a board seemed to be the consensus maybe I'm wrong on that I just wanted to have an action step yeah we can also discuss it at the February meeting because it's not going to be until we won't start until March with advertising so how about we table this sit with it and Jeff will put it on the agenda for February and then everybody can feel like we're gonna write the letter in the meantime then yeah and we'll have both yeah good great okay on to the next item we have the 2019 meeting calendar including a possible have retreat so I can kind of frame this or Jeff do you wanna frame it so actually since you probably know the

[189:03] best with the calendar in the holes why don't you feel free and we can then we can talk about where Adam and I got on that right so there's there's two separate components to this I'd say one is just scheduling meetings if we have the fourth Wednesday of every month it's currently scheduled well there are at least three there are two holiday conflicts and one spring break conflict that you might want to sitter as well as whether you want a summer recess which some boards take the in order I think the March meeting is in the middle of Cu and Boulder Valley School District Spring Break which I noticed when we were looking at a vacation and Jacques and I were talking and came up there too so we thought we'd better check in on that and then the November and December meetings are smack-dab holiday you know day before Thanksgiving is probably not when you'd want to meet so we if you want to meet that month we should probably reschedule

[190:01] it and then the fourth in December is on top of Christmas so and I think Judy you had brought up the holiday conflicts and also suggested that if you want to schedule a separate retreat as a board you would need to do that and for us to find space and for you guys to get on your calendars you want to do that in advance for sure any thoughts anybody give your finger up or no guppy or is that was just uh I'm just looking at calendar and I mean I'm trying to keep it we have it well if we keep it where we're having it we're missing three meetings in the year without moving any of them that's three so one is one fallsy on the day after Thanksgiving one falls on Christmas and then the 27th

[191:01] would be spring break so I want to move all 3/7 is in spring break okay if spring break a problem there people I apparents yeah vacations oh I see like it's Jeff and Jacques aren't here oh that would not be great oh you're right yeah I'm sorry I missed it by a week okay I was thinking it wasn't well I mean if you want it we will certainly staff at whether it's me or someone else if it's during spring break don't worry about that I just thought if the rest of you if other people are having issues around that you aren't gonna have a quorum we definitely can't have a meeting or if you'd rather so just that's why I brought it up I would like to be part of that issue what's that I would like to be part of that issue is being divisive [Laughter] we have a 16 year old it son that is the BBS tea break and I appreciate you raising the issue it will be yeah it's a

[192:01] dynamic that and a lot of people tend to go away that week of March so so I'd love to have our second and I have my boys out of school that week she Trump's all of us so yeah so then do we move can we just I mean the city's scheduling everything so as far as like space and stuff so that would either move it to the third weekend March on the 20th or we move it forward into April on the was that the third or another day and our people back from Spring Break what what are the dates of the BBFC Spring Break it goes from the 23rd through they go back to school in the first correct I can double-check it's sometimes they add like a professional development have a

[193:01] professional day on that first day back you're right yeah let me just check real quick I may be SD calendar I suggest off the bat would be to move those three to the third week in fact so back when we were just back one week to the 20th or whatever that day would be we should be able to find space it may not be here that's the only caveat I'll put on it do you say I guess question reasonable yeah okay so the question would be would it be okay on those three meetings to move it back one week buy it for everybody yeah on the Wednesday on the Windsor yes and my only question is could you look ahead to what the regular calendar is if you think there's going to be a meeting with a big public hearing that might impact where you choose the location of the July 24th meeting will be Jane Oh true all right so we're looking we will look then for either the 20th is

[194:01] that the preferred I heard a suggestion that just be standard the third Wednesday would be the 20th is for March and November would be the 20th and December would be the 18th yep well and also if we could possibly for continuity keep it at six yes possible that would be yeah well I am going off planning board in March after Council appoints so I will no longer be the lay of son so it's fine with me and then the other calendaring scheduling issue was if you want to have a retreat you'd need to pick a time and we'll see what we can do to find space so initially when we talked about doing a retreat it was looking at some of

[195:00] these business issues laying out the year looking at the work plan there was a multitude of things for the retreat side of it but it kind of and you guys correct me Jeff and Adam now that we potentially so right now because City Council doesn't have their work plan put out we literally kind of don't have anything for February March right now so we were thinking about maybe creating our February meeting or our March meeting into study session is that what we'd say or or well we talked about we brainstormed really really really quick right before this meeting and we were talking about it might be cool to do some fun engagement as well as like if in February we decided to use our meeting time got pizzas put a square out here and said come have conversations with have something along those lines I would I would lean towards doing that with these meetings where we don't quite have guidance from counsel yet and where we're going and if we're gonna do a

[196:01] retreat at some point do that after we get guidance about what's happening and also to add on to that retreat after the fact is that we would be incorporating two / maybe three because Adams going to go up for the position again but 2/3 thanks for having me you know one of the things that I'd suggest is maybe you have a discussion around some of the issues the youth tables community benefit and sub community plan you know the planners will be coming in to talk to you about it but to get maybe some of your ideas where you can you know if you look at the council goals how can you leverage affordable housing and these different areas that planning is is looking at and

[197:02] I don't know if Brian would be willing to do it but maybe Brian and I could both be if it's a study session could both be here and be talking about some of the avenues I mean I can I can write down some of the things that I've thought about for having early good input on sub community and then opportunities own and the the 11 different zoning excuse me zones on the youth tables that they'll be looking at I don't know it's just the thought may have an impact well I think it's a good thought Sarge you you go I think it's a good thought to try to work on that thing of siloing and maybe we have an opportunity here to start to to get some of that engagement going between boards and I can ask the two staff people

[198:01] Andrew and Carl Guyler who are heading up the Youth tables I'm sure they're kind of recalibrating everything right now based on count both input they had a nice community outreach plan but there's a lot of information that you can just read to become informed and then have a discussion so would it be possible to say since we're running along we've got February 27th and March 27th would everybody feel comfortable so February 27th we have to have the agenda the week before right and so we will set our agenda making and if everybody could get their ideas of what they'd like to see have happened with these two meetings the one part for sure one is the Community Survey discussion yes yes

[199:00] that's not that yes we're trying to fill these blocks yeah totally yep yes so I like your ideas for February March and I think that's great I would also really really really like to have a board retreat within a few weeks after the new board members are added and I'd like to have it be a little different rather than discussing specific housing topics I wouldn't mind if we had a facilitator and each really talked about what our own desires were for hab and sort of how we saw hab and then do some places they call it a SWOT analysis where we really looked at what we thought our strengths were individually or as a group and what we thought we could improve on that sort of thing and have it be really productive and interactive and get to know the new people so that would be something I would really like and think would be really useful for starting off the year with them okay on to does that feel

[200:12] clear enough for you Jeff that will everybody before our next agenda meeting which would be the week before our meeting on February 27 so what that Monday is before it seems to be what we've been working so the Monday before February 27th what day is that Curitiba caldrons that's the Wednesday before we do the Monday before yeah yeah so the 18th that's Presidents Day so we'll probably be meeting how nice for you prior to that okay so why don't we say then by the 16th people get their ideas to Jeff for Corey about what they'd like to see have happen for February and then

[201:01] we can mullet over in the agenda meeting something together I just wanted to know was there again we'll be needing to meet sometime before the 16th 13 14 15 so say if you people get their ideas by the 30 Wednesday the 13th three weeks from now and then we could we'll find it time to set the agenda after that and the 18th you said was Presidents Day yep so we could do any morning that week I'm open okay so I was just want everybody's clear on the 13th though okay so I was just wanting to know if there was an interest in having a separate retreat to really get to know each other and hear what I have to say I don't really know what most everyone's really individual passions about the housing board are and to meet the new people and talk to them and talk about housing you know we can't

[202:01] just meet I mean we can always just meet and socialize but to really talk about housing we can't do that unless it's in a posted thing so I just want to know if there is any interest in having a retreat if there's not there's not I am yeah I mean I was passionate about it because that's why I brought it up last year to do the exact same thing is that this is yeah to me a priority always is is that we understand where each each other are and what we're passionate about and what we're interested in and that's why I pushed for it so hard last year and just make sure we're opening communication yep especially with two new folks likely coming but then do we get to have one we need to move that and vote on it or do we just get to have one there I know Jeff shaking his head and I think I mean you guys just find a time you can come up with an agenda and do the new board members start on the first of April or that so they'd start on our next meeting in April right so they are

[203:00] March and they'd be in our 24th meeting they're often appointed by Council in March then there's the orientation and others kind of getting on board so very unlikely they although we moved them if we move the March meeting to the 20th probably the April meeting and they would start but that would be their first meeting they would start sooner than that most likely could we start with a board retreat then like do it early in April is there I mean can be a board retreat for their very first intro and then why not yeah I think we're the second week of April maybe you people think that's a good idea I don't know since this board has not gone through appointments before I know I'm planning board if City Council appoints on the 19th let's say because that is that's one of their business meetings so they will have interviewed the week before but if they appoint on the 19th we have

[204:02] a planning board meeting on oh I'm looking at February well March what if they appoint on the 12th and planning board has a meeting that following Thursday that person will be seated and be able to go to that meeting they don't have to go through a training or anything they'll probably go in talk to the city attorney about quasi-judicial and then start doing some the planning board training is usually with the staff going through all the different plans and procedures but we'll check with the city clerk to see about seating protocols and rules and all that great and feel if they intend to a point on the 19th which would be their second business meeting that's meeting xx it might be possible regardless I think early April is our is our deal time for a retreat right second week I would what is your schedule to click Cory on that anything that's up for you when is Easter that's not to the

[205:01] nineteenth Raiders yes exactly first yeah thoughts Palm Sunday is the 14th it's Sunday do you want to stick to the Wednesday at six meeting time on the tenth I can do the tenth I could do the tenth I could do the 10th they put them April 10th April 10th so I'm looking at merch no don't be deep into their taxes well you haven't done by that point last week I'm trying to think of anything else that could be happening around that all right 10th we will look for a space for an evening meeting along with the other three rescheduled great all right so that's that the only new business that well actually we have to discuss input from Council to have do you want

[206:05] to frame what you heard from that or does anybody feel like there's anything they want to discuss in particular about that I think we go down the line okay do we want to start down there we'll just go down okay feel free um good idea thank you yeah I mean I was I was a little bit disturbed and somewhat I guess dismayed by what I heard I heard conflicting information specifically regarding staff and use of staff are not use of staff and it was yeah considering what we had put in the letter I personally didn't feel that it was a terribly clear representation of that so I mean there's lots more we

[207:02] could I could say about it but for the moment that's that's my general feelings around the around the discussion that happened with with the letter so unless there's new information for Jeff to add from the retreat there's not okay so what I heard was that City Council is not interested in a very broad way from all sorts of different people with all sorts of different positions on council that occupancy is not on the table at this time except that it sounded like tiny homes is to be folded into manufactured housing it sounded like is there any I didn't understand it that way and and Kurt tried to share with them that we see

[208:01] those as pretty different work items and given the conversation tonight that sounds like maybe that's a it's probably better to keep them separate from some of your board members well I didn't hear a kibosh on tiny houses no but and and I did hear there was still interest in us doing some a little bit of they definitely wanted us to follow the work plan that was the first priority but I did feel there was still room for engagement certainly and a little bit of innovation that's what I got yeah I you know there's some things both structurally or that you know I mean Erin's first comments were I think he had three boards and two of us he found our letters too wordy he said that they were wordy and there was from Bob and

[209:03] Sam talking about making sure that we specifically answered the questions or that you know broadly across the boards I also felt personally as I was watching all of it that and it seemed from some responses from the other boards to was that there was a bit of an issue on the interpretation of the letters at which I was thinking about it as I was watching the process and letters were being read they weren't read they were summize and the things that I think we wanted to put across which was the reason why we were using them as study projects was that we were trying to relieve staff from having a bigger work and putting our toe in the water and that and that we actually do value staff so there was to me the the meat of it or the heart of what our

[210:00] letter was got lost somewhere along in that and it made me curious if in future councils it seemed like it would have been cool if we had a representative or our chair at that night so that if they had questions we would have been able to say no what we meant was we were trying to emphasize that we were helping not and and yes occupancy limits our hot-button topic but I also felt that again our overall intent was missed which was we have hot-button issues the city has hot-button issues and that the goal was to potentially put a toe in the water and again fine I'm fine with the decision on it because that was our goal was to be able to put forth some study and if they don't if they don't want it and they back off that you know it took 8h our Human Relations Committee HRC how

[211:01] many years before they got their document forward on that and so I figured that was going to happen so I wasn't surprised by that at all but it goes back to the process portion of it how can we as a board in our letters and maybe this is why these letters come back to me as important is being clear and concise and intent and I think we got lost in the wordiness and I think we got lost in the overall with it so I found that feedback interesting and like you I want to stress and I think we all feel this way is that totally following the city's work plan just trying to add if we have the time to see where else we could add but fully in support of of the work plan so there was a process piece for me and then

[212:01] there was an intent piece and I was like how could we have better communicated that how could have how could have that process been more supported or heard in a way that made a little bit more sense Adam yeah I I would mirror a lot of the things he said to me it felt like the reading of the letters was a little bit like a game of telephone where someone has to surmise it and I get that that's a byproduct of council being incredibly busy they don't have the time to read every single letter to every single detail and then try to extract the feeling that the board that give them the letter was trying to come up with so they they have to use it a more refined and quicker process I totally understand that but I agree that the intent of our letter was almost entirely lost and the thing that stood out the most to me was are sort of volunteering ourselves to be researchers and to inform ourselves

[213:02] about topics that are important to the community whether or not they ever even hit council I I didn't like that part especially because no one's gonna stop us from researching no one's gonna stop us from learning you know topics that are outside of councils work plan that's that's I think a very important part of getting a holistic picture of the issues surrounding housing not only in Boulder but in the nation and internationally like all of that is sort of a requirement of being on the board in my mind so to say that we need city staff to back us up on every piece of research I think is a bridge too far so having that having said that I totally understand where counsel is coming from you know I don't have any intent on going on a wild tangent or any but as we saw tonight there's some open spots on our work done on occasion and I

[214:01] don't feel bad about engaging with a community on on those certain occasions to hear what they're thinking about that might not be directly on councils work plan I think that's well within the purview of what we should do thank you Michael I think they like us because they didn't terminate us because it could have gone the other way I know you know I've shared my view with you that that why not initially keep it straightforward avoid any contentiousness and and earn a stripe of you know credibility and confidence with council by sticking to their work plan they know the other issues are out there but why not go do that keep it real straightforward kind of link what we're

[215:00] doing with the work plan and because it's already been approved it's you know been voted on and so forth and what strikes me about the letter I was still felt a little early on and voted for it that we adopted but I did feel it was a little bit wordy and maybe a way as a process we could sidestep that and I could see even a little bit of that this evening is to draft a key points outline and those points are stuff that we could easily agree on because they're pretty binary and then has some one draft around that and then we're sure that we we stuck to the points we want to make as we write that so there we would reduce the level of ambiguity that's often contained in in those letters and that's left you know so there's less interpretation when people read that and maybe find someone independently my understanding is that council doesn't won't typically read a letter and respond to it I mean they probably read it but they may not respond to it as a draft situation but

[216:01] maybe we could find someone else and maybe it would be a formal count a former council member that would maybe be willing to honestly comment on that or maybe not but it would be a way to sort of mitigate the risk of having that and one thought and I hope that compromising anybody but might be too what about having a mid-year letter to council to say this is we're at to sort of reaffirm that we're back on track and then also being in the context of council we're gonna have quite a bit of turnover here come in November of what we're dealing with in the context of that and that's I thought we had agreed to a biannual letter and I'm fully in support of nominating you to write this letter next year with a concert of the rest of the board and understanding what those key points are how come I laugh at your jokes and you don't laugh I'm sorry you

[217:04] know um I think Nathan you alluded to this when you said Human Relations Commission had brought up something over several years and that finally hit on you know council prop finally put it on the work program and that's the same with Planning Board we talked about youth tables for five years four years community benefit equally as long and gifts what they're all hitting and I'm gonna be off that board I mean I'm kind of sad but I'm happy that it made its way up through the work program so I wouldn't attach too much they're having things taken off because when they're sitting there if you look at their packet they've got a work program of projects that all of their different staffs are working on and adding new things is actually a pretty big deal you know for and so the tiny homes I I just

[218:03] wrote a note to myself to ask Andrew and Kurt who are heading up the Youth tables are we gonna at least the fine tiny homes in the youth table I mean we don't have a definite definition we all talk about different things so maybe I'll ask them we'll just an aside our alliance does because they passed theirs I read that yeah and but so they have a definition but anyway even if we just do that with the youth tables then you've got something to work with but I'll ask them how it's gonna move along yeah I mean I think and that's a great point is you know just plugging away and putting stuff up constantly that you know because we are as as a group as Adam had kind of alluded to as well as that the holistic approach right to me when I deep dive into housing I didn't just go this is all I'm doing I went and

[219:00] looked at everything locally statewide nationally to see what was happening so that my conversation and questions could be informed and that I was educated on the piece of it so but there's a difference between us researching and getting clear and understanding the situation and the history within the city and us engaging with the public and putting something forth those two things are different well and and I think the thing is like having something taken off that we proposed I mean that's why we put it there yes a thumbs-up thumbs-down and and the concern that I had was really that somehow I felt like the intent of our letter just was not somehow relayed and and and you know that does come to I suppose how we're forming that letter you know I mean I read through the letter immediately during the videos I was watching it and after and I I was amazed that those

[220:00] points weren't taken but they weren't so so somehow were we're missed and and we do need to focus on that neck say they they they all individually have the letters in the packet I always would read those first I thought it was really interesting I love hearing from the boards and the public it puts you in touch with people that are right on the ground but that was my style I can guarantee you they all were reading the letters and you know it was just the way relative structured the discussion we didn't do that but that's what they're doing but the council members thought things that all their boards the boards are important to them so I there's two thoughts that come to mind one is the attachment that we gave of our report about housing solutions I think we should in the future send any other attachments at a different time to

[221:02] council I think that's what made it so long that was pages and pages and pages and I think that's what threw Aaron off in his report that was just my feeling about it but I also think that we have a wonderful opportunity in June because we did they did say we could write another letter and we won't be one of 21 letters or whatever however many there were and I think I think that will be really good or we could really state things in a simple clear way so just the tip find out when their resources resources gonna be recess do not send it right before the recess because their agendas will be loaded up do not send it when they get back from recess send it when they're in recess and they're not gonna have big packets to read that's just a little insider tip just send it during recess yeah send it during recess so get the letter and you know they won't be

[222:01] reading big packets thank you typically recess with these second meeting in June in the first meeting in July ah between there so as part of process then we would want to in our retreat discuss items start the discussion of items that we'd want to put on that letter during that there's an item on the agenda sure and then I still nominate Michael okay um does everybody feel clear and do we feel like we said what we needed to say on that and feel like okay and Michael you had sent this out to me for this agenda item and then I I got swamped

[223:01] with about four days worth of work and and I missed whether or not we and then you had emailed back and said you and Jeff talked about it so I don't know if you still want to touch on this or do we feel like we I don't think so Sigyn I I think I had a discussion with Jeff I did discussion with counsel I had a discussion with with bhp and it seemed like my observation it was very well addressed okay so anything you want to share on it so that people reading the agenda item would feel clear on it I think it's one that's being properly monitored by staff and by Council and by bhp okay this is federal shutdown yes yeah yeah okay any questions from anybody are we all set okay then is it a motion to adjourn I'm redoing that our staff matters from staff in debrief no matters from staff

[224:02] tonight debrief anybody I think we're doing great we're not having a meeting for a month I thought we you know I was like that's pretty good and you know the fact that it was a fairly light schedule I was kind of hoping that we'd still hit the 9 o'clock I like when we keep our timetables yeah thanks for all the effort staff put in manufactured housing stuff to you that was her best community interaction so far that was exciting seeing everybody out there that definitely was I was like yeah so another thing that maybe we can put on their trade or maybe we can just discuss at some other time is I don't look at if it goes past 9 o'clock the problem we only meet once a month and I figured the expectation is it's over when it's over and so I don't know how other people

[225:00] feel about it like I don't start getting antsy at 5 of 9 I want to finish the work we have to do so I don't know I don't know if it'd have to be official in any way no I don't think so but I just don't want people to feel they have to have the expectation of 9 o'clock or we're not doing good in some way gotcha right I just think we should try to aim for it yeah those I feel like I already have a timetable that we should always be honoring and just make time checks that if it's 9 o'clock and if we're willing to go past it that that's ok but I still think we need to honor looking at the time all right anything else and I think we can adjourn the meeting yep a motion to adjourn second

[226:00] [Music] - Parris ah oh my god [Music]