March 1, 2023 — Environmental Advisory Board Regular Meeting

Transcript

Captions from City of Boulder YouTube recording.

[0:02] Great, and with that we'll go ahead and call the meeting to order and heather. Would you like to read the slides about? Conduct? Sure just 1 s. Can you all see my slides? Okay, I know. Sometimes they take a moment. Not yet the now are they still not yet? Let's try that one more time this is working Might get there to the yeah. All right. Hi. Everyone. We're pleased to have, please. You have joined us to strike a balance between meaningful transparent engagement and online security. The following rules will be applied for this meeting. This meeting has been called to conduct the business of the city of Boulder. Activities that disrupt delay or otherwise interfere with the meeting are prohibited.

[1:01] The time for speaking or asking questions may be limited. No person shall speak, except when recognized by the person presiding, and no person shall speak longer than the time allotted. Each person shall register to speak at the meeting, using that person's real name. Any person believed to be using a pseudonym will not be permitted to speak at the meeting. If someone comes into the meeting with a telephone number or a name associated with a specific device such as Tom's Ipad. The host may ask for a full name before allowing the individual to speak. Yeah, my slides have frozen. There we go. No video will be permitted except for city officials, employees, and invited speakers and presenters. All others will participate by voice only. The person presiding at this at the meeting shall enforce these rules by meeting anyone who violates violates any role. The chat functionality will be used for individuals to communicate with the host, and should only be used for technical online platform related questions only.

[2:04] If an attendee attempts to use chat for any reason other than seeking assistance from the host. The city reserves the right to disable the individuals to access to chat. Only the only the host and individuals designated by the host will be permitted to share their screen during the meeting, and just an update on Number 6. Since this is, we have converted over to a Zoom Webinar platform. The Q. A. Is now taking the place of the chat. All right back to you, Mike. Alright, Thank you, heather. With that we can move on to look at the minutes. Did anyone have any comments or edits for the minutes before we move to approving the minutes from last week. Nope. Is that a No from breaks Amanda Hernande, do you have anything last month? Any comments? Okay? With that I'd make a motion to approve the minutes seconded. Okay. Great. Thank you. All right. Public participation. Do we have anyone in for a public participation tonight? We sure do. We have 6 people who have joined us, and I will just go down the list and

[3:15] select people to to unmute when you. How did you know that I was speaking. Oh, I I selected your name off of the attendee list. Oh, the attendees! Yes. I I just the people that are attending Don't necessarily want to speak. Yes, I know we just want to check in with each person, because we don't have a a formal way of signing up and seeing who wants to talk. Did you have any public comments for us tonight? I there's a hand raise That's how it is with all the other meetings.

[4:03] I'm just it's different with you. It's different with each board. So I it, Lynn. I'm nobody has their hand raised, so I just wanted to check in with everyone really quickly. If you have the ability to raise your hand. then then please do. If you'd like to chat so. He looks like Paul Paul. All you should be able to talk now. Oh. hi, everybody. i'm! Paul calling in the south folder just to get through the formalities. And when that's just the way it works here, you know you have to get used to it. so I don't have a lot to say today. Just keep after the study to lower their emissions, and and that's about it. I'm more interested in what's going on in the Legislature these days, and chasing around after Senate Bill. 16 and things like that.

[5:09] So enjoy your evening. Thanks, Paul. Thank you for attending and listening, as always, and comments when you have them appreciate it. Appreciate your support. Alright, anyone else over there, and then. Lynn does have her hand up now, so I will go back to Lynn Oops. All right. That's jumping around on me right. Let me see your hand up. I've been cold for like 23 years. My thermostats at 58. That's just to keep my pipes from freezing. The part of the house where I live is 30 to 40 degrees all winter long. 5 months. I would like to see some kind of assistance program or coordination program for ground-loop, heat, pumps and district ground loop. He pumps

[6:04] in my neighborhood, which I can't necessarily coordinate myself. and for for for example, because i'm low. Income Leap pays my bills so like. What do I care? You know my bills are getting paid, anyway. But why shouldn't we be putting in to this district. He pump situation like, Why should they just be funding me to keep? Continue with the gas bonus in my house when I don't want it. and I I want to do something. You know that's more emission friendly. So anything that you can do would be much appreciated, because things cost pretty much I it. The person across the street was getting one put in. They're building a new place. They built the new place they scraped and then built new. and they're putting it in afterwards. But

[7:02] I think that's a technicality. From what I could get from the geothermal, he pumped Guy. But I still haven't got even an estimate like there's such a demand and stuff, so I need someone advocating for me. and someone came to my place. But then they never. They never give me an estimate. so any coordination you could do, for that would be great. Thanks. thanks, Lynn, and I think Carolyn mentioned she might have something to add to Lynn's comments. Have her if that's okay. Yeah, no. And I really appreciate Lynn raising this topic of it's not just about addressing the the cost of energy, but really stabilizing that long term and providing benefits for all the community members and and well district systems or ground source may not always be feasible in all areas. There's definitely cleaner solutions that we need to work for, such as air source, heat, pumps. And so one of the things I can offer is, we're currently working with energy outreach Colorado to bring increased scope to the care program that is Colorado at access to for residential efficiency. But to really focus in on heat, pump adoption in our community, and so augment instead of programs and other things that are available to help some of our income qualified residents actually.

[8:27] not not just pay their bills, but but get better heating and calling solutions. And so we do hope to roll that program out shortly, but we're actually already starting to do it where we have furnace failures going on in some of our community. So i'm. I'm hopeful that we will be able to bring up a broader of solutions, recognizing that it's a slow process to get to everybody's home with our contractors. But it's definitely a priority for for the city and and something we are definitely looking towards. as far as our investment of our climate tax dollars and other sources of funding, really leveraging what's out there and helping folks. So I appreciate when raising that.

[9:06] Thank you, Kyle. Thank you for adding that, and it looks like I just figured it out now. It looks like no one else has their hand up. So that is correct. And I was just going to say that if there are folks in that that are attendees that would like to participate in public comment, and they're not certain how to raise their hand if they want to just drop a a note in the Q. A. I'll recognize them that way. So it looks like no takers. So we are ready to move on. Okay, great. Thank you for your comments. Everyone who did speak tonight, and we'll go on to our discussion items which is environmental health and equity impacts of landscaping equipment, and i'll turn it back over to you, Carolyn. Thank you. It is my favorite topic. Well. it's an important topic. Let's put it that way. I mean it is a really challenging topic, and I really appreciate. Oh, I mean, I just got our hand out. Let's start there.

[10:09] Section Caroline. I just wanted to raise before we go into discussion items that I would love to talk about a couple of additional things that I know the city is dealing with. I'm not sure exactly how to raise that. I would like to add something to the agenda, but the Uni Hill trash laws that we're just introduced for waste management I would love to talk about. and I can pop some news articles in the chat for a background. Yeah, maybe we can do that during, or I guess i'm not really sure how that works, either. But, heather. Could. We maybe add that during the matters from the Environmental Advisory Board after we get through this section with that work. Okay. So go back there. Okay.

[11:06] Good. Thanks, Amanda. Thank you. Everyone. Pardon me. I have a terrible cold. So i'm going to be blowing my nose, and all night i'm sorry no worries it's going around, and everybody is struggling. I'm. I'm relieved to not have it right at this moment, but i'll it'll be kind of background. So thank you for taking the time to speak with us. I I did want to take the opportunity to provide an update to the board on where we're at on on the project to to really better understand the environmental impacts of our landscaping service providers, as well as strategies to advance the communities, goals around environmental and health equity within this this space. And so I I mentioned this. I was joining. I didn't prepare a a slide deck for you, because I wanted to to have this more conversational Provide you kind of an update of where we are, and then check in with the the board about how you would like to continue to hear about the project.

[12:04] Get some input into you for things that we might want to bring into our conversation with city council during our study session, which is scheduled for the end of May as well as any insights and feedback you can provide to us on the types of community engagement. We should plan between then and now, now and then, as well as subsequent to that conversation to make sure we're we're doing a a good job of about hearing from everybody in the community. So that's kind of my goal I did share in the packet. I don't expect you to have made it all the way through our information packet, so i'll just summarize again where we were at. We did launch this project last year. recognizing that it is something we continuously hear from the community around, both in terms of you know, noise, impact. climate impacts in terms of emissions. Health equity concerns, as well as our ecosystem stability as we think about what proper long care looks like long term. And so it definitely has a nexus with a lot of our our city goals. So last

[13:10] towards the latter part of last year we did hire American Green Zone Alliance, who has been really leading a lot of the studies in California in particular, but elsewhere throughout the country they they're really very integrated into a lot of the program designs that have been going on as well as have a deep understanding. They did start their the the principles within the organization started their journey as landscape service. Providers so have an intimate understanding of of what's involved are able to make strong connections with our service providers, and and really bring to us a a good, strong focus on on equity and what the business impacts are really going to be of any stress we have. So we were really fortunate to bring them on board, and and they just been tremendous and and helping us really understand kind of the land. Excuse the fun. It's not intended to be one, but the landscape of our landscaping services, which we know is very challenging. You know, as a city

[14:12] we have everything from individual service providers. So one man shops on person shots all the way up to fairly large businesses. I'm serving the community, and it's it's not a clear demographic in terms of like these large businesses always serve this type of commercial business, and they're They're really diversified in terms of that. And so, as you think about any strategies to change how they approach landscaping services in the community. It gets to be quite complex. really thinking about how we outreach. We don't necessarily know who all of them are. and how do we set them up? Success? The other piece of this, though, is really it's such a important industry from our overall equity goals. It really presents one of the great opportunities for entrepreneurship, especially within some of our Latino communities. For example, it is a large employer of

[15:09] our Hispanic community overall. We want to make sure that we're not taking steps that are are detrimental to that opportunity or creating a financial on businesses. So that was really the framing in which we brought it on board to really help this thing through this process. So i'm going to pause and see if that's and that from a background. Or if there's any questions kind of how we approach just setting this project up. Does anyone from the Board have any questions at this point, Brooke. And then Linda. Okay. Okay. So so from a project implementation standpoint we tasked with a few different things. First was we actually walked through our it racial equity instrument that the city has developed to really test our projects. And so we took a good look at some of the equity implications that i'll talk about in more detail.

[16:01] They've done on some discovery visits at least one so far to the community to start to understand how services provided. So they set up shop at Western disposal, where the landscaping debris gets deposited from service providers. After they finished performing their their work in the community. They were able to interview several of the service providers search inventory the types of equipment they're currently using make some connections. They did some shadowing trips. so they were able to follow some of the service providers on their jobs to see how they operate, how they utilize their tools and equipment, and and really kind of understand what our landscape looks like in terms of what the need is, what the ecosystem to implications are so like. What the tree canopy is what that looks like in terms of like fall deposits and and all that. So they got a pretty good sense of of where things are at. They also.

[17:04] i'm shouting one of our local service providers who operates all electric equipment, so they have no gas powered equipment. So, thinking about everybody who is along that trajectory of I'm still operating. I'm. Now operating all electric and really kind of getting an understanding of where they were at. It's a really helpful trip. particularly to get it Some of the issues which I I will talk in more detail about, as far as if we think about different strategies to try and transition this industry to reduce emissions and noise impacts overall. But it did get us a good perspective again on some of the the diversity of the businesses. So they did encounter everybody along that spectrum. And then I mentioned, in terms of single individual providers all the way up to some moderate size businesses that work in our community and and also interview them about their concerns about, You know, electric powered equipment. What does that mean? What happens if we Don't, for example, use leaf blowers at all. How would that impact your customer experience? And so that's one of the the key things I'll I'll bring in, because I think at the end of the day one of the

[18:18] the particular concerns we hear from the candidate is around leaf lowers. Specifically. these are 2 cycle engines Typically, so they're going to have higher emissions overall, including not just greenhouse gas emissions, but ozone farmers that other health concerns particular entryment multiple organics. And so we know that this is the priority piece of equipment to tackle. And so just really try and understand how that plays into the services they provide in our community, and and whether what options are are most suited. I think we're also concerned that because of the noise concerns, so the noise pollution is also an environmental concern that our community shares, and so

[19:07] electric solution doesn't solely solve all the aspects of what we hear from the Q. A. When it comes to league. Blowers in particular. Electric is equally invasive when we think about that impact. So we wanted to make sure we're we're not just thinking this. Everything goes electric, and we've solved our problem because we still have that noise, pollution, concern that comes into play as well as what the most people Don't understand in terms of unintended consequences, which is by clearing all of the fall debris and other things from the landscaping we're actually creating challenge in terms of ecosystem diversity. And and so we can. We do a way with leap Flowers is one of the things we're trying to explore. So I see faces. People are like. Oh, my God! It is really complicated.

[20:01] I I mean. So you you mentioned earlier. There were some equity concerns around mandating. Everyone immediately switched to electric leaf blowers as like a very base level. So do you know. do you know the sort of like financial difference between requiring everyone to use like, how much more expensive is it to require everyone to use electrically flow flowers? Yes. yeah, from ground 0. Yeah, there's 2 parts to that. So the first thing is on the market today. There isn't an electric replacement for what we found to be the most commonly used gas leaf lower, and so from a. I'll call this from a power perspective performance perspective there, there currently isn't an electric alternative. and so so it just doesn't have a duty cycle. So you end up having to like if you were to fully replace it. You have to have multiple like more leak flowers, more batteries. You are gonna so it's gonna drive up the cost. So, roughly speaking.

[21:09] we took a scenario based on kind of a a current. One of the example duties that they saw an estimate about $7,500 to provide an electric off the ground solution in terms of just the leak. Lower equipment compared to a piece of equipment that's probably closer to a $1,000. Okay? And then the other concern the other equity concern that's come up in the conversation of like. If you move towards like. You have to have more batteries to provide the same type of performance over the course of the day. There's been a lot of instances that actually sharing with us about, you know, workers happy to take those batteries home and trying to charge them in their homes. And there's been situations where they have fires, so they don't have proper circuit protection. They're also bearing the cost of that charging, whereas.

[22:06] like their employer, would have otherwise for the cost of fuel. So that's kind of a key consideration that we need to look at as well. Okay, thank you. Yes. and then maybe Amanda. I'm. On the you go first. I think you you you raise your hand. It's okay. Yeah, since we started talking about the equity concerns. I just i'm not sure. I quite like the dynamic of in in the in the memo that you gave us. First you said that a lot of the workers were Hispanic, and then next, he said, or a little farther down. He said that it would be a noise complaint which is usually done by the police.

[23:12] and I don't necessarily like that dynamic of police coming in to mostly Hispanic workers and regulating that industry when it's also them that get a lot of the environmental health concerns. So i'm wondering, for I guess that part of the question. Can we do a little more research on to like if we can have a police alternative for respond your response instead to noise complaints. Also you you mentioned that it wasn't quite so much of a difference of noise between gas and electric, so i'm wondering if there is enough of a difference in noise for us to have a legal standing to actually regulate them, because the noise is the one that we

[24:10] have the legal standing for instead of the error quality. So I guess i'll leave with those 2 questions. Yeah. So let me take the last one first, and then i'm going to put a PIN on the other one, because i'll talk about enforcement strategies and and get it that equity component as well, because you hit on an important concern, we have as well. So, starting with the noise so currently the way our noise ordinance works is, we have decibel ratings depending on on which zoning area you're in, with an exception. And so we accept landscaping equipment in the decibel right and the way. You would modify the noise. Ordinance is to then specify

[25:02] either to remove that exception that would then just set the decimal limit that cannot be met by most gas card equipment, and can be met by some electric equipment, but not the same that has the the duty performance that we would see and and deliver quality of service as people currently expected. I'm going to get back to that topic. or what communities have done is they just allowed the exception to apply to electric. or there's been a full band so so kind of. And so the choices in front of us are are really that suite of within the noise ordinance. What types of equipment do we allow? Does it have to be electric? Doesn't have to be gas, or does it just have to comply with the decimal ratings. and to the degree that we prohibited. And that is, as you know, the thing we can regulate. Well, so I guess my question was more of if somebody calls in with a no complaint, how do we know that it is gas or electric, and it's therefore exempted because it's electric. Is there enough of a difference in noise.

[26:05] I would argue that I think it is a legitimate concern, and you may get people reporting, I also think. And since we're talking about the challenge of how complaints work it also, under many circumstances, like one of the big challenges that you have to observe it under the current construct. and a lot of times the noise, the source of noise has gone long before anybody can come in and enforce it. And so that's certainly some of the lessons learned we've heard, and so i'll offer some strategies of what we think to get a little bit more of like design, but just from a background. You're hitting on some of the definite challenges and the the lessons we have been hearing from other communities for sure. Come on. Hi, turn. So I guess so.

[27:00] I want to understand what we're discussing here, because if the cost of replacing electric or sorry guys with electric is what 7,500 to a 1,000. You said right. and then they make pretty much the same noise that this seems like very conclusive to me that this will soon. I mean, like, okay, so what what are the next steps, I guess, Like what? What else is there to figure it out? Yeah, so that's just again. That's kind of the introduction of where we're at, and and kind of answering that question so but like. So I think you're getting on. The equity concerns is like, what is the cost of different strategies. So if we don't so if we ban all the flowers, so I think that's one of the options on the table. There's a service expectation. So we didn't get to talk about that yet in terms of the equity component or the thought process right? And as you ask. You know. How would their customer feel like if we just raked it? And there was to free, and they would say, we'll get calls, and we'll get complaints.

[28:08] especially around the fall, that we've been educated to to appreciate the pristine green ones. And and so we do think there's a community educational component that has to go with this as well if we're got it. If we're centering, the successful outcome being, we want to support our landscaping service, industry and their success, and we don't want to have a detrimental impact on that industry that creates a financial harm for an employment for for certain types of workers, which is honestly where I think we're trying to center our conversation. But how do you design it? And what is the solution? We do think there's a definite component there around making sure there's customer education about kind of the ecosystem benefits and trying to recalibrate around. What? Say Christine? Long before we for example, ban any use of leaf blowers.

[29:05] so that there's some level of phase in that would have to occur to to provide that education. And so that's certainly one of the recommendations we anticipate. Bringing to council is some some lesser restrictions with education and outreach to the community at large, to talk about more holistic ways of managing landscaping, trying to bring in some of our ecosystem progress. And i'm sure you've heard that talk extensively about our our rela as well, and to give that some momentum; so that then, when we, for example, might move to a full ban, people are more prepared, and there's a better expectation about what success looks like in terms of the landscaping service. So that's that's really, I think, what we're, what we're talking about. and what that would look like, you know, strategically as a recommendation our consultants have provided us is more of a seasonal allowance, so that it's banned.

[30:06] There's there's no for example during most of the year. But in the high 3 times of the year there's like a 2 month period of time, or a 6 week period of time in which they're allowed, so that it's kind of walking that line, and we're not forcing. I mean, Our recommendation is not to force people to go electric as as the first step, but to to provide tools to that long term they can bring electric solutions into that, and also focusing on some of the other equipment. That also has a environmental impact as well. So the solution will be, I don't understand, so like it will be. Could you not clean the leaves. Okay. or breaking breaking is is an for for high debris areas, like if you were thinking about long term, right? And Brett Andrella are much more expert than I am on

[31:04] ecosystem benefits of leaving debris. But we certainly gotten some papers and reports from the community about the benefits of doing that. It is better ecosystem wise to leave the debris on the yards. Let them compost right, so that does have that benefits, but we also know that that's not quite palatable for everybody yet. So there's got to be some transition there. But that's ultimately Yes, that would be the ideal state if you're really centering the ecosystem side of it. Yeah, cause it just has to me like an excuse for my student neighbors to not clean their yards. And then all this leave to flow into my yard, you know, like I mean in in practice, you know you can educate him, but I mean giving with the other conversation we had about the the back fee. You know there is a plateau, because there is only so much outreach we can do to students. So with this thing. It's. It's kind of the same where you can do all the old reach you into the community. But this is a sooner community is more transient by nature

[32:02] you can not always reach them kind of like with a disposable bugs. So yeah, I mean, it just sounds like something that kind of like the we you know, on on University Hill. I mean that there's been conversations about out of control weeds on the hill. and I think it's gonna relate to that like it's just. I don't. I don't like the solution either. Because yeah, I can. I can write my own leaves, sure, but I know my neighbors. I'm not going to. I help students on both sides. So that means it's just more work for me. We're not advocating for that as the immediate solution, but rather so, I think. If you think about it as a phasing base, why would still allow the clean up of leaves as they occur today. But but the rest of the time, like clearing the little one trimmings off the the the rocks after they do your your lawn in July or June would would be, you know, a broom, or or some other method rather than operating them routinely through the year is basically the recommended practice, and then with leaves are the greatest. You still allow the tools to be available.

[33:12] as we slowly transition and move towards more physical means like freely. But I think that's definitely a key point of that we want to. I mean, this is the kind of feedback we want to hear to make sure we're bringing it into the conversation with Council and the study session of of some of the concerns that we would need to address any. This regulatory strategy that we might pursue, as well as education. Yeah, so sorry I got one more thing on there. so I guess, like I would like to rewind like is the status quo that bad then, like what we have now, is it bad? Because, like I've been getting those seamless to from. you know. Residents V. The right. I complain, but it's mostly about noise like it. To me it seems like a noise problem. Disguise as a health and environmental problem like I like those you show in the Pdf.

[34:06] Say that a leak blower. you know 1 one. I would at least blow over it like I was it 4 or 6 h of driving. but I mean the amount of leave lowers compared to the amount of cars it's. The ratio must be like what 1,000 to one something like that like. So it's like the pollution. What you account for percentage of overall emissions. It must be significantly a couple of those of my into smaller. So it's like The question is, is this: this is a real problem, but it's just people complaining about noise, and they were making all these excuses to justify binding leaf flowers like that. That part is not clear to me like I don't understand the impact over at all, I understand, like they create like like, I said, the engines are not that efficient? They create evolution, but it seems to me like a little drop in the ocean. So Don't quote me on this number is wholly accurate. I have to verify it. I

[35:01] believe the State estimate is that landscaping equipment, and in particular equipment that's run for long periods of time, which would be because they tend. They can't tend to operate for an extent for a time, and that because of their the Commercial League blowers have higher emissions overall than, say, of riding, or. as an example. contribute about 10% of our front range of zone. Okay. Okay, so it is somewhat significant. Umhm, and I just say a very quick thing in response to turn on, and then we can go back to. I was wondering if maybe, instead of the 2 kind of extremes like, we go back to what was normal, or we like. Just ban them all right, or even banning them like 3 quarters of the year. Could we maybe just just required that they first rake. and then they blow because then they would be blowing less. and that would be less emissions.

[36:10] but the raking would get like I don't know a good portion of it first. It's a good. No, I think that's a good question, and something we can definitely look into in terms of what that might look like from a a code requirement and enforcement perspective. I I think you know the only thing that comes to mind is. how how do you quantify that? And what does this recording look like? But it's it's certainly something we can take back as something to look at a little bit more. I I think my concern with going to electric is that I know what my landscape is gonna do. He? Lets say he switches to electric. He's just going to buy a power generator. Put it in his truck to run it with a gas, and then I wanted the batteries that way. like, you know, people are just gonna find loopholes. If the market hasn't got into a point where

[37:01] and electric, and you know, meet the demands of Gus by word, leaf lower about voluntary strategies and enforcement. So give me it. Let it come back to that one as well, because you hit you hit an important point of how you achieve a successful outcomes overall with support for the industry. So I will come back for that one. Do you have more, or do I go over to Brook? And then on Brook? You haven't had a chance to Amanda's had her hand up? No, I mean no. You definitely had your end up before. Okay. How much less effective than a slower is a rake. It depends on what you're measuring.

[38:00] I would imagine raking a soccer field is difficult and takes a really soccer field is very difficult, and I mean it does. It definitely leads to degree behind. And so if you're at the I and we have I I should have brought some pictures, but you know you have laws that expect to see no debris. Just screen that. Not possible with the right, because it's going to break down any dry vegetation as you as you're making it. And then from and then you make you hit the the other applications, for example. like if you want to get all the degree out of the brick on Pearl Street. you can't do that with the rank. Yeah. Okay. So what's your say like in in the places where rake would be useful. So in a lawn if if i'm if i'm only using a rake over a long there i'm. I should expect some amount of debris, but it like

[39:02] It's not like a horrific level right like it's you're still getting all of the large debris right? So I I mean it. Just doesn't seem to me like there is a reason to maintain use of leaf blowers in terms of lawns. and the any kind of outreach, the the only thing would be is that people expect a pristine, perfect lawn. And so you do outreach around, not having a pristine, perfect lawn. But I also think the outreach is not going to target the people that would actually complain about not having a pristine, perfect lawn. Right, that if if if you look at like a like a sort of a stereotypical person that will complain to a company move services based on very minimal debris to 0 debris. doing outreach to cover that gap

[40:04] isn't going to actually target the people that would actually like make that a problem. right? So like. Yeah, I I I hear what you're. I hear what you're saying. I think you, if I were to characterize where we've heard particularly. you know, if you think about homeowners associations which which are fairly large contracts for our service providers, and of course they're hearing from their residents within them as to whether the service providers are meeting their expectations and and if we don't manage that, or or pride ways to kind of address that either. We have businesses that could lose service if if they right. But if there's a perception that they're not delivering the I guess the expectation.

[41:03] So I guess that's the area of concern that we we here particularly right. But I so the outreach would be in that case to the h of a organizations rather than to the individuals. And so it's just maintaining well, because I mean, people are gonna complain regardless, even if even if it is the most perfect outreach campaign that has ever existed. People are still going to complain, and so, if if complaints and loss of service is the only reason to not switch which I recognize that it isn't it it just that does not seem like an i'm i'm working my brain in loops here. That is, I, and I think it definitely, and I I will say I heard similar comments of

[42:01] I I think that there is a point in time where it's just ranking. And then part of the question we want to explore is, is that year one your 3, your 5, your 10, and so how do you? How you transition towards the greatest success. And so some of the recommendations are. If you start more seasonally, then people start to get used to a little bit different condition. and then you gradually move into kind of that narrow window, and to turn on it like if you're the difference between 10 months and 2 months is pretty significant, right in terms of impact. Like if we can. If we can whittle that down to just the the core time near term. We're having a good benefit environmentally. Well, not totally

[43:02] addressing, you know, like eliminating it completely at least immediately. So I think the timing and and so take a little bit about that piece to is part of the conversation we want to explore with counselors like, if we recommend. you know, just for example, saying. in 2024 there's only going to be seasonal allowance. You can only use leak flowers in these months, and we're going to do warnings only soft enforcement. and then and then in 2,025, we might start to take more aggressive action for repeat offenders, and then and then by 2,025. It's electric only. And then, by you know, to start to think about what that phasing looks like in terms, of what it is the best outcomes, and that's what we'll back up in terms of like what it could look like.

[44:00] Okay, cool. Yeah, that. Thank you. Do you have another comment. Yeah. So I I guess I don't know as many examples, but there might be a lot of examples out there of local cities instead of Federal governments partnering with industry to like, provide tax dollars for for development of new technology. I know we do that. It Federal government does that with like pharmaceuticals, and I mean lots of other things. I'm wondering if we, the city, could put money towards developing an electric leaf lower that is comparable to the most common gas leaf blower, and is also quieter. I know there's some some like biomimicry kind of ideas about using.

[45:05] I'm not quite sure how we floors are constructed. I'm not an engineer, but I know, for, like fans, we were able to make fans very, very quiet by studying how owls wings are constructed, and i'm wondering if we can partner with like Nrel, or something like that, to develop a an electric leaf fuller, and then, obviously, it would be available for the rest of the country to use to it's an it's an interesting idea. We hadn't thought of that one, so I think at least it's a particularly in terms of like, what's the larger duty cycle? What's the better charging solution or things that enable them to be more successful? I think there's for sure opportunity. One of the reasons the leak lower, so challenging is half of the noise comes from the air velocity, and nothing to do with the motor.

[46:00] And so. but I think there's certainly opportunities, so i'll definitely take that one. You did see it, and I promised to come back to this. The you know. Where can we invest in tax dollars to make this a successful outcome? So one of the things we were able to do is we secured a a Grant from Boulder County as part of the sustainability tax to pilot a new incentive program to help start to drive more electric adoption. And as we you know we talked a little bit earlier about the high cost of entry. because you have to fight additional battery packs. You have to buy additional chargers in addition to just the the tool itself. And so can we offer an incentive prop program that buys down substantial portion of that cost and starts to get some of our smaller landscape service providers to be able to start, to use electric and and and start to bring that into their business model and utilize it, and so that we do hope to launch

[47:06] that program next quarter. So we're working on the program design working with some distributors to do that buy down at the point of sales, and then so it's not just a rebate, because we're talking about. You have many thousands of dollars for a small business that may not have that. So we're working on that. That will give us some good experience on okay feedback from those businesses on where they are encountering challenges around charging we definitely want to incorporate could charge an infrastructure to support them. So they don't do the thing like they said, which is burning down buildings. So yeah, charging. There's good devices that allow you to charge and and do charge management to not overloading circuits in the building. So, buying those outright, making sure they're in the hands of our our smaller businesses and and workforce, so that they're set up for success.

[48:03] So we're trying to parallel all of this with a more voluntary educational program. We're going to start offering some workshops. introducing them to more of the equipment that's electric to include some of the the bigger. you know, push behind ours, tremors. Other equipment besides leak blowers that we anticipate will continue to be used in all applications, and moving towards a a cleaner solution for both the community and the workers. because, like tremors, have the same issues from a worker exposure, perspective to say a little lower. so that is ramping up, and we're going to learn a lot from from some of the programs that have been offered in in California. But for sure, we we hear the least successful programs that have been rolled out in terms of any kind of landscaping equipment. Bans or requirements around electric have not been successful. If you don't back it up with a robust support system around education resources.

[49:03] it sent us to help make it accessible. So that's where we've seen some of the the biggest issues. It's just I won't be in the communities. I'm sorry I was out to go there, but I won't name them, but we certainly gotten some good experience from others Where it's. It's been very detrimental to the, to the industry and workers as far as impact as has gone without those tools. Yeah. And I I guess I feel like this is something where the customer should bear the cost right like I don't understand why the workers are. I mean they should. If they're going to be forced to purchase all these things or rake a giant field that's going to take 2 people 40 h to make where they could have blown it off in 45 min. That should be something that the customer is prepared for to burden and shoulder. I guess, in my opinion, that's one thing i'd like to see is that if people are asking for this and supporting it, I think they should be fully prepared to pay a lot more.

[50:03] I I agree. I will now give you my other side of that coin. I don't think we have a single service provider that only works in the city of both. And so it's. It is kind of challenging, like many of the like, very few, or even based in the city in terms of like where they live in their their business is located. And so what does that look like? I think that's why we are are really looking at this incentive model. So if we, as a community, or are really driving this and wanting to see it happen, or in partnership with some of our neighboring communities that they were putting some finances in the form of our tax dollars forward to help by that that cost, because we also agree that it it's. It's challenging to place on the financial burden explicitly. And I guess the other thing I would say is that every family I could think of. Every friend of ours in our neighborhood has a plugin

[51:08] leaf lower that they blow their patio off with during the summer multiple times, and they all love it, and I guarantee if this law passed, and then they said no more gassy for or electrically floors. They all keep using them myself probably included. It's like it's just everyone uses them. So I just feel like eliminating even electric completely with just people would just keep using them caveat in that with the nuance of what reporting looks like. So this is probably a good segue into the earlier question about what does it force that actually look like? And who are we enforcing against? There's so like, Who are we enforcing against there's there's 2 scenarios under consideration When would be against the service providers.

[52:02] and why would be against the those who are securing the services. So either the property owner or the the renter who is holding the the contract with a service provider. You probably can guess which one the staff we expect to recommend. and it's not against the service providers. It is against the the home and and putting that responsibility on on the person securing the services. To again address the ultimate accountability responsibilities is to them as opposed to this broad service industry that may not have the ability to to know what our requirements are, and and that's certainly where we see better success in some of the other cases. And then and then who enforces it? We're talk. I think we'll be presenting with some of the case studies where noise Enforcement has shifted away from our police department to code enforcement.

[53:02] And so that is something that's also going to be discussed for for multiple reasons to include just, you know, recognizing where it would have to fall within the priority of our law enforcement in terms of enforcement any way given. You know what they have to deal with overall the the way enforcement happens in terms of ticketing. And and the court process did proof for the proof in terms of Yeah. How long does it take them to get to the place where the people are used to be operating, and they can't witness it. And so there's some different strategies around using more recorded code enforcement approach. That. I think, simplifies that, and addresses some of the concerns that were raised earlier in terms of. Are Are we setting things up for failure in terms of of placing police and

[54:00] our his, that population, and and what could appear to be a confrontational situation. And so that's really something that's high in our priority list as well. So I think overall. The things we've talked about is, you know we're anticipating, offering up kind of a spectrum of what it could look like along the lines of all the things we discussed this evening in terms of everything, from a full out. No leak blowers over some time for him. allowing electric. Allow an electric list gas with all of the pros and cons we we kind of talked about tonight. I think there's some great ideas, as far as you know, ancillary ways to support it, such as continuing to work towards better tools overall that help us accelerate that timeline. I certainly heard very clearly. You know a lot of similar concerns from from you all about some of our equity things that we've been in flagging in our conversation.

[55:09] but pause there and see any other thoughts. Things I I should cover that I haven't. I mean. I think it. I think there's so much to it like you, said a massive spectrum, and I guess my concern of this topic is always been that I just don't want to see it be like an unfair button to the people who you These. at the you know, request of people who are just like oh, you know you deal with it. We're gonna we want to quiet, and that's what you know. That's my concern, and it always has been so. But it sounds like you. You're very much thinking of that and aware of that. And so I guess as long as I think that's the thing to keep in mind for me. That's where I come from. and her you'll help me make sure we we definitely articulate, because I think you've heard a couple

[56:00] from a couple of our board members just about making sure this is centered in the right outcomes. Not just the the noise concern. I I mean. Yeah, I would love to just double down that I have issues with the whole concept of noise, complaints being that like enforceable thing. But that's a whole separate issue. But I very much don't want noise issues to become. you know. a bigger problem than they are. And so anything we can do to mitigate those through whatever regulatory things we can do. I I think is is a big. a big thing. Yeah, I don't know how many of you saw the story recently, and like the New Yorker about this this wacky thing that happened in New York around island vehicles. and they're They're sharing the proceeds from the tickets with the person who reports

[57:03] the island vehicle to report your neighbor and get half the monetary value of the ticket. And there's people that actually have turned it into a a full time job like that's not the outcome. We want it. And that's one of the things that happens with noise right when you sorry. just focusing in on that. So yeah, it's not all that made me just like twitch in so many different ways concerns on that one I I really would. I love the idea of, maybe just like developing a better electric leaf blower with and and in part what whoever? Actually yeah. But yeah, it just seems like there's so much

[58:02] so many different moving parts and obstacles and cost being one of them of like. We're setting up this whole rebate program, because electric leaf floors are more costly than gas, and they're also not like comparable to the most popular one, and it just seems like one of the biggest issues to switching could be that there aren't enough there isn't like a good electric model. So if you could bring that up with counsel, or whoever else in the city. No, I I appreciate that, and i'm going to do a little exploring as well with I to see if they have any thoughts on kind of anybody in the industry space, that looking into. That. I I also think kind of this movement away from guest-powered equipment and and ideas, like

[59:03] providing more incentives and demand, will also help with the issue a little bit, because that's also been one of the the barriers. Right? The they're they're starting to merge, but the demand is low, and and we need to drive that up as well. So I think I think those 2 components are really important in our strategy. So no, thank you for that I do. Well, I will say that the what I'm saying I mean that just it sounds to me like there's more like, you know, waiting for the market to adopt. I know, for a solution, but that's, you know. 5 years. maybe 10 years away. I mean like. if the they're probably with the leaf lowers is, you know, the batteries on that don't last as long. I mean, there's a problem that we've been trying to solve for like decades. You know we're we're getting better. But it's Joseph. You have half of Silicon Valley. The Government pouring millions of dollars in investments into like.

[60:01] you know, batteries lasting longer and different types of batteries. But that's just. I mean it's a massive undertaking that a lot of people are working on, but that's just that's your science. It takes a while. so it's like if we go with a row just like I I I would like to see it. Do not ban it does below it until the market has a solution, and I mean I I will be money like companies like Ryo B or Milwaukee, or you know they're they're pouring millions of dollars in researching. Cut up they below better battery. Still, you know, like they every most. both of those professional and home tool companies, you know, having developing different types of batteries for home owners and for professional. But it's just the technology is just not there yet. I and I don't know, like it. It just seems like I get. I guess. I'm. I will be opposed to bunding.

[61:01] Got leave lowers until the price of electric leaf lowers, decreases. or the the market has some sort of solution. That will be my my, my. my stands especially because I I sincerely believe that a lot of the landscaping people will. Just what a gas powered. what we generated in the pick ups. and you know, charge their batteries as they drive from one home to the next. and on the other thing of buying leaf lows all together like I said, this is a leave to like neighbor complaints, you know, like. and I and like the equity. Yeah, yeah, I mean that's pretty good, too, because it's like I can pay a guy to clean my yard. I don't know 50 bucks to clean it, or I can pay like 3 guys to clean and have to take 2 h, you know, 20 bucks an hour. If i'm on a fixed income. That's a that's a big different. So there's a something to consider that as well, you know there's a calls to moving this to the to the owners.

[62:04] not everybody may be able to afford it on. I do think it's gonna miss out that the police handles noise complaints. I mean a little that's keep people just. They don't. They usually don't have documents. I mean that's just a reality. It's it's dominated by Hispanics Latinos immigrants and it's just they don't have documents. A lot of them will speak English, and then you have to deal with release. It's kind of scary. I don't know that's kind of messed up. That's something that should be brought up to to the conversation. Yeah. thank you. I love what you're saying her. Not this. Actually. It's me a little into my like nerdy phase. But since I used to be yeah, I used to be in the science field like scientific funding for R. And D is a huge topic, and if there already aren't, if there already isn't much of a market for to sell electric leaf flowers, you're not going to just

[63:09] on its own. quickly enough develop, start developing, and have companies start putting their own money into developing electric leaf floors because it's not a lucrative business right now, and I think that's where Government funding really comes in, and you push the market in a not, you know, control the market, but push it in a certain way that we think it's beneficial to the public health. And yeah, I mean. industry is usually going to be looking out for its own, and it's bottom dollar. So if we, if we actually start funding more R&D from a government perspective into these solutions, I think it'll speed up that process, and once again i'm not an engineer. I don't know exactly what goes into making a leaf lower, but it seems like there are some specific. There are some unique challenges to leaf flowers because of the velocity of of wind that you create, and how

[64:15] how noisy that gets which is different from like how long batteries last, which is a little bit comparable to what we're doing with electric cars. So that yeah, that's just my 2 cents. I'm all for like government funding R. And D. Science research. No, I I agree with that. But what I will say is like it's probably upside the scope over the budget of the City of Boulder. I mean, i'm gonna I? I just read a proposal to do some science computer stuff, not even like physical stuff. I'm gonna ask you for like 3 million bucks right to lead a team to do this very specific niche research. So it's like, okay, if you want to develop a leap lower. I I I do feel like I think the City of Border can like push for that. but it will be outside the scope of their what they can, what the city of they can afford. And and there's money for that, too, like the Department of Energy, has like high performance computing grants for energy innovation. So.

[65:09] for example, I work for a national lab. So national labs come, partner, up with private companies, and then we we? We so made a grant to the to the Department of Energy, and they give us like half a 1 million for a year to do some something like that will improve energy efficiency, and then it has to be manufactured in the Us. So if I, I, seeing a little projects, I might love that deal with reactants and like cool ones and stuff like that. So it's like, okay. But you know the money is there like at the end of it also has a brand for research. It's just. I guess the So basically. Like, if a private company wants to research this, I don't have to spend their own money, they just have to. Yeah put the manpower. But then also, you know, if you partner with the lab, for example, we put them on power. and they they I mean, we get the prestige and the papers, and they get all the the results for building stuff, right?

[66:04] But yeah, I mean one of the things will be one of the drivers will be like the market, whether. if the market, they can see the market moving that way, they might be more from the emphasis on being like, okay, we need to like gonna catch up with this. I mean, I I think it's a good idea. I just don't see. I don't see a commit to, for you know, within less than 5 years at least, or something like that. So it's like, okay, what do we do if you know the study? I'm: sure the Council with some feedback this year, you know, like so it's like you work on the wheel for now. Yeah. yeah. I guess her non. Your comments made me think that I just wanted to echo. I really agree with what you said, and I feel like what you said. Maybe you think more towards the program that maybe, you know, encourages for quite a while people to encourages people and incentivizes people to perhaps go the route of switching to electric, but does not force people to. That's I think, where I stand on where i'd like to see it

[67:05] in time, I would just say, in in addition to what you guys are just talking about the National Science Foundation as an entire new directory called the Tip Directorate, which is technology, innovations and partnerships. And it's all about getting government funding into like small businesses to develop new products, to eat societal needs. It's sort of new. So that's something quite a bit of money in that pretty cool program, I mean, like i'll stop and let other people come up or otherwise. Or if I, Caroline, I don't know if you have more to go through, or if you have other questions for the group, or you just have it some additional comments or last round. Yeah, I don't have anything additional. This is this is usually helpful feedback, and, I think, set us up for it just the additional conversations with the community we want to have lead into the Council, so I appreciate it. But definitely, do you ask any more questions or provide any more comments now, or you also know how to how to.

[68:02] You all know how to reach me. Nothing is like, I think creating awareness is really really important. because like on this this wasn't giving on my radar and back to what you said about the Nsf. You know, like a lot of national labs have directives now that are part of their coordinations to do. Cle. My resilience. So it's like, you know, they already have these pre allocated budgets of like billions of dollars, and they look at some of the money for research and development. So you can propose things, you know. As for like what i'm doing, but for something different and say, like, oh, yeah, this is like this is a a climate problem, and there's some really difficult points to solve like this is. you know, the fan is to turtle and flow. The over in flow is incredibly difficult to model. you know. Not even the fastest of the computer can do it like fully resolved. So it's like, okay. But now we need a sign answer for it. Okay, we need the same power, but without it, only so that we do that. That's a research topic that a company is not going to do, because it's the risk is too high, and

[69:01] and they really isn't that much profit in it. So it's like that's something that a national lab or a university will have to do first. So, creating awareness and making the scientists know that, hey? This is a problem that needs to be solved. It's good, because, like, yeah, I hadn't. I didn't even thought of that at all. and I was like, oh, yeah, I could have proposed that if I if I had. No, you know i'm dealing with. Bring it up to people and ask them. You know somebody who's an expert in that kind of science. And they say, hey, are you interested in this idea? I want to you to make something, and so you can get funding. So yeah, I appreciate that you're bringing awareness to this topic. Great. Thank you. Now I appreciate it any other last. Thank you. Alright. Okay. Sorry. I've lost the agenda. Here, hold on a second to anyone does open. Okay.

[70:02] All right. Then there's nothing under old business updates. I don't believe right now. There, Nope. And then you have a recruitment update, though you wanted to give, I believe, so we could go to that. and then the Council makes their decisions on appointments on March sixteenth, so we'll have a and answered in. Mike was one of the applicants. Excuse me, that one was a a person named Sorry. Her name just flew out of my head, but she is a scientist working on battery capacity. That's what her background is in. So. And then, just as a reminder, Amanda wanted to bring forward that other topic about the University Hill trash ordinance

[71:01] just really fast. I just wanted to confirm. So I I mean there are 2 seats open, right? So those are just the 2 people work. because, like last year there were like 8 people for 2 seats, so we're just getting the 2 people that applied right. That would be my assumption. But ultimately Council makes that decision, so I don't know they could have a really big problem with Mike for some reason, and not want to appoint him, and just to leave a vacant seat. Can they do that? Can they just leave the open seat? If they have the applicants? Yes, they can. I should be on this best behavior for another couple of weeks. Yeah, Mike or not. and I I believe that there's even some precedent for them to seek additional candidates. For example, if there was a concern. So

[72:01] yeah, I think there was some some talk about like gender equity and on boards last time they were. And and then Also there were some boards that had like location, living requirements, or like business owner versus and they didn't have enough of like a certain pool. So they opened it again. Is that all you wanted to bring up? Bro. For you? It was a it was, I thought, a very cursory question. Apparently there was more to it than that. But yeah, that was it. I learned something. Yeah, thank you, alright. Amanda, back to you. Okay, Also, thank you to the Board for letting me bring up another topic. I've put something in the chat because I don't know where else to put it, but that is the news article about

[73:01] city council's decision to create an ordinance, to increase penalty financial penalties for contaminated waste streams on University Hill. The vote would I can just try to summarize this really quick since. But the vote was 6 to 2 to increase penalties and specifically for repeat violators. There was some discussion about not having enough input from students and the actual residents who lived there for like Why, this was a problem, and like how they would like to see waste stream issues resolved.

[74:02] and so. and some equity concerns as well, because these are students who are usually lower income, not always, but usually lower income than the rest of the community. and that the and that the building owners might pass on the finance financial responsibility to the renters, instead of taking it upon themselves to pay the increased fines. So I just wanted to bring this up because we were talking about waste management over the past few months. and also talking about how there's been a lot more contamination in the waste stream and composting requirements for businesses have gone away a little temporarily.

[75:06] I also know that ecosystem is also changing their requirements for what goes in compost to only food, waste, and and yard was so no like bioplastics, no compostable cutlery. And so there's a lot going on here, and I was just wondering how everyone felt about it. I know I'm. I would love to alert city council in some way about if if the Board is okay with it. Alert City council to the opportunity for a lot more education, continuous education about proper sorting. And I don't know, Carolyn, if you know anything about it, but feel free to jump in, since you're from the city.

[76:06] Yes, I will, I will, for go and say, this is not my area of expertise. I can comment on on the A. When organics restrictions down on materials going to composting, which is translated down, and I I think we There was a heads up that went out on that topic as well as it was in our Newsletter. That's going on as well. Just about what those changes mean, and where the concerns are. And certainly, you know, I think there's a long term. Look at how to solution it, but we're in a place right now where we have material restrictions within the the composting streams. The broader hill topic is is something I I would not venture to to comment on that's definitely was beyond even our department in terms of the the total conversation I went into that. So I can certainly listen to to the feedback and heather, and I can share that up through our channels. But

[77:06] that's kind of where I would be in and being able to contribute to that. Okay. thanks. So this was passed by cancel, and has it gone into effect yet? I guess I didn't quite know that I think Council Member Nicole Spear and Council Member Lauren folk. It's where the 2 no votes against the ordinance. But yeah, it was February 16. Also Chase Cron Cronwell. I'm. Just reading from here a part of the student government I was advocating against it. and for more like education and engagement with the community members. But

[78:07] since we still Haven't had really our conversation about waste management and increasing. for just our conversation in general about waste management and city council is starting to act on it. I felt like we should bring this up, and if we want it to let city Council know how we felt about about the ordinance and about just waste management solutions in general. We could start talking about it. He there! Did you have your hand up? Yes, I was just going to ask if you would like for me to reach out to other city staff from other departments, who may have been involved in that ordinance to see if we could have somebody join the board for a discussion. We come back to the waste management discussions.

[79:05] and then also just my understanding again. Not an expert was not involved in this at all. But from conversations I have heard, there was a a large discussion on the enforcement piece of existing ordinances, and previously enforcement was through criminal charges. and it moved the Enforcement over to the Civil Code enforcement piece. So that's a nuance that I just wanted to highlight. But I will add that request about having another department join us. And I think just to add that I think to the degree you could put it into the broader context of overall we strategies. I I think it's. It helps. It's helpful to bring the perspective of of this forward specifically into that and and kind of the outcomes that you would want to see through that type of Enforcement, I think, would be really helpful to to have brought forward in that conversation with the other departments.

[80:08] Right? Thank you both. So much. Does anyone else have any other thoughts on that? We'll circle back to it when we do waste management. I mean, yeah, just very briefly, I I would. I would like some more context in the specifics of what's going on before I like. actually comment on it. I read through the article, and it's great information. But I I think, to to have a fully I'd I'd like to see a brought back around. Yeah. that'd be great, I agree. and on anything else. I saw this article a while back, actually on the boulder reporting lab. I actually shared on a reddit, and I got a lot of comments from, you know older people. and I was going through them again on. You know there is all sort of

[81:04] point of view, I think. for people who live on the hill, the main complain is that they have seen Tvs, mattresses, cakes, red cups. plastic trash dumped. They'd say, on the farmers dish that runs through the cemetery in the student neighborhood. So that's you know they want change. like the article says there is a people who are concerned that landlords will pass the the the fine. So the students. It will be just, you know, part of the contract, and given the how the situation in Boulder. More students will just sign it, and then, you know, not understand fully the consequences. Of course some people complain about the home population. And yeah, I mean, I think there's a lot of debate about it and different points of view. So it will be good to get more information before we, you know, issue as a board like some sort of feedback on there. But I think it's good that you brought it out the Monday.

[82:05] Yeah, I I just would love to, maybe also ask that we actually have our waste management discussion sooner rather than later, because there are decisions being made and we Haven't really discussed it. Yet I didn't know that this decision was that I could also be more more read up on what's going on in city council every single time that they meet. But I didn't know from this board that that decision was going to be voted on. and as the Environmental Board, I feel like we should also be in the loop on these kind of decisions. And so I would just love to have that discussion hopefully next month, if not. and the month after

[83:01] what? What we curious is like those waste management does the department handle also? Once, you know, the trash is picked up, how we manage our ways. So the the they also in charge of handling trash in the streets, because they may be completely different departments, you know, like it may be, the waste management just handles you at once. Once you pick it up. What do we do with this? What if we put it in the landfill. What do we recycle? What do we call it? And then maybe a completely different department. That's just, you know, out in the streets picking up trash. so that will be something good to find out as well like, which department is actually in charge of of this. hey? Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, I think I think you have a point is always drawing the nexus between the the particular issue that they're dealing with and and and whether it's a

[84:00] bits and then environmental concerns. I think you're on onto the conversation there, and I might noted for heather that when you have your waste management conversation, I think it's really good to to include the work that's going on around our. I'm going to get the name wrong, but we have an encampment clean up team. That's part of our led by our water Utilities department that's really trying to think of more holistically inside. You think that there's some some thoughts that they're partnering with our climate department around that get more like student strategies. So some of the things you describe. How do I get rid of this trying to mitigate how much gets left, and and continuing to circulate in in unproductive ways. And so I do think that there's some some great opportunities to bring into that conversation. And so we'll take note to make sure that that's part of it.

[85:00] Great. Okay? Well, i'll look forward to that discussion in the future, and thanks for bringing it up, Amanda and everyone that's good. and i'll try to do a little more reading on the back story, too, before then. Okay. So next thing I think we have is the next meeting is currently scheduled for April fifth. But looking at moving it to April Twelfth, in light of the first night of the Jewish holiday of Passover. So is everyone. Okay, with moving from the fifth to the 12. Yeah. her Not you. Good. I think so. I'm: just looking just in case. But yeah, I think it should be. Yeah, I have. Yeah, there's nothing going on. So yeah, I mean. But that works Okay, it works for me. If I get back on the board I can do it. If not, but I'll do something else. Yeah. Okay, how there is that all good. Then Okay, and I guess other than that, that kind of concludes the agenda. If no one has any other last minute points, and thank you so much for joining.

[86:09] And yeah. it is great, great, great to see you all again. So yeah, good to see you, too. All right. One last thing. Does everyone want to attempt to be in person next month? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yes, I'm: I might have an issue with that. But it would be hybrid. I would. Yes, okay. I I assumed as much, so I might need to join online, but I don't know that for certain yet. But potentially. I guess we can during the meeting. Alright. Thank you. I'll take care. Have a good day.