March 3, 2026 — Downtown Management Commission Regular Meeting

Transcript

Captions from City of Boulder YouTube recording.

[0:19] I'm alright. Welcome to the University Hills Commercial Area Management Commission and the Downtown Management Commission combined meeting. It is March 3rd, 2026, and I will call roll. Trent Bush is not able to make it. Tell Jones. Danica Powell. Ted Rockwell? Well. Dane Anderson? Here. Erica Dahl? Here. Dustin Calvin? Here. Andy Nathan is not able to make it. Dawn Poe? Here. Stephanie Treats? Here. I will now turn the meeting over to Chair Rockwell and Chair Poe for procedural items. Thank you, Melissa. Let's see. So, what we have on our docket for UCAMC is the approval of the January 2026 meeting minutes.

[1:07] I hear a motion to accept the meeting minutes as presented. I see tell. I second it. And I see Dane seconding. Any discussion on that? I didn't see anything. All right, so I'm going to call for a vote. All those in favor of approval, passes unanimously. Off to Donto. Rinse and repeat. For DMC, any motion for the… 18 minutes from last month? A motion to approve. Do I hear a second? Second. Any comments? Voting? Do I hear… All in favor? Go for it. Bye. Nice. public participants. Yes, we have one public participant online, Lynn Siegel. Before we get that, we still have recruitment updates. Sorry, sorry, not there yet. So, they are going to be doing a second round. They're hoping, this is not finalized dates yet, but they're hoping to reopen applications March 6th through the 20th. If you have anyone interested, please,

[2:10] let me know, and I can send you over the link so they can apply. How does that impact the vote that's going on? Like, if this is… I believe this will just be for people who… they didn't have any candidates, Do you know? I wish I did. Yeah, I'm not sure. I don't think it's for… I think it's for people who need candidates or are looking for additional candidates. But you can, still. All right, and we have one, public participant. Alright. Hi, Lynn! Hi. Would you like to share? Share what? Did you have anything you wanted to share for public comment? Oh, I didn't… no.

[3:01] Not to share today, it's okay, you can just observe. Yeah, just the usual concerns about university effect on Boulder's public. I just went to the Transportation Maintenance fee conference, and, like. It's really hard when CU is having a huge impact on asphalt on our town, and I'm paying the price. So… And I've got a library, district fee, and Excel bills going up, and it's too much for the taxpayers to handle. So, if you can approach any of that, the financial respects of that, and especially when we're relying on sales tax revenue, which is tanking because we have a third world war going on now. It just doesn't help the economy much, so…

[4:03] mostly, like, CU's making a pretty penny from tuition on… on… on these students, and why… why am I paying for their transportation impact? It's probably their… the impact of CU. Who owns… who owns Boulder? CU owns Boulder. I mean, this big development they're doing down at Naropa, and the Millennium taken over, that was 250-some hotel spaces we had for sales tax revenue. And now we have Sundance coming, and the dynamics of Sundance on Boulder are huge. The financial impact is huge, and it's not a good huge, it's a bad huge. I know everyone else is just screaming about the wonders of it, but it's bringing massive quantities of people to this town, and we already have, like, 30, 40 different projects, large.

[5:00] Residential projects coming in, probably 60,000 people coming into this town, and we don't have people that can get a budget that we don't have to draw fees for from the public to keep our streets, you know. drivable. It's pretty pitiful. I can manage my own budget a lot better than that, and I don't see much public input either. Real public input. We are intelligent people, you know, Boulder is a university town, and we don't need these nexus studies that That we have to have for a thing like a transportation fee, but What we do have is a lot of common sense, and there's not a lot of common sense going on here with the financial arrangements of the jobs-housing balance going more and more diverting wealth… wealth diversion is not helping the economy, locally or nationally. And then, plus, we've got coming down from

[6:03] You know, the war now, so… Those are… Thank you, thank you for your concerns. Yeah. Appreciate you addressing the commissions with your concerns, and we'll take that under advisement. Have a great evening. You too. All right, that brings us to matters from staff, unless there's anyone else from the public here to address the commissions? Alright, matters from Steph. Hello, Sharon? But, yeah. All right, hi everyone. I think I know every one, but I'm Ruby Brown, Economic Development Strategy Manager for the New Office of Cultural and Economic Development. I'm joined by our consultant team, Progressive Urban Management Associates. We have Amanda and Michelle here. I'm gonna be providing an update on the Downtown Development Authority formation work as we head into the Council's study session next week.

[7:07] So this presentation is… that you'll see tonight is nearly identical, to the one that we'll be sharing with Council next week. So I wanted to just take the opportunity to walk through it with you all first, hear your perspective before we have that discussion. And I'll just emphasize that once we get into the policy considerations. And the directions that we'll be sharing this evening, they are very preliminary, they're subject to further financial and legal analysis, but this is kind of, where we're at in the initial direction that we're heading, so welcome your feedback. Let me go to the next slide. Download. That's a little delay. Quite a run-through of the agenda as outlined here. I will briefly revisit, the background, why we're doing this work, then we will walk through the process, getting group leadership.

[8:11] I'll then turn it over to Amanda from PUMA, who will walk through the initial financial projections, including tax increment financing and mill levy modeling, and then I will return to cover key policy considerations related to funding, governance. and GRD structure before we close with next steps. It's a pretty lengthy technical presentation with a lot of content, so we'll probably pause at a few points and open it up for questions or comments. So, what is a DDA? This slide really captures the core concept. A DDA is a long-term, place-based steward for a central business district. It's designed specifically for downtown areas within a defined geography.

[9:04] Its unique feature is tax increment financing, so TIF, I'll be saying that a lot tonight, meaning it captures new growth in property and sales taxes within the district boundary, and that growth is then reinvested directly back into the district. Importantly, a DDA can bond against that future revenue stream. which really allows it to fund capital-intensive transformational projects, not just maintenance or annual programming. It's fundamentally an economic development and capital delivery tool. Next slide. Why a DDA in Boulder? Many of you know how we got here, but this conversation has been building for quite a while now, and really took off after our previous effort that, the City Improvement undertook, which was the improvement district analysis. which evaluated our existing general improvement districts, GIDs, and provided recommendations for how they should evolve to address some of the challenges that we're seeing.

[10:08] That analysis pointed to a lot of existing conditions, including the economic stagnation that we've been experiencing in parts of downtown and the Hill. In fact, even erosion in sales tax and property values when adjusted for inflation. At the same time, we're facing new challenges. Commercial vacancy rates are quite high, evolving retail patterns, aging infrastructure, and our existing GADs were not designed for this scale of reinvestment. They have limited bonding capacity and limited ability to generate new revenue. And so the question that we've really been asking is, do we need a new tool to address these challenges? And a DDA offers flexibility to support both public and private investment and programming at a scale that we really currently cannot. Next slide.

[11:02] So, along those lines, with all the tools that we've been discussing over the last several months, and given that Boulder already has several existing districts, GIDs and a bid. Just want to take a moment to really clearly distinguish what a DBA is and how it differs from those other entities. I think this is where there can kind of be a lot of gray area, so I just really want to hit on the key points that differentiate this tool. The key difference is financing authority. A DDA can capture TIFs, both property and sales tax, as I've mentioned, and it can bond against those future revenues. And that ability to leverage future growth is what really sets it apart. With that said, a DDA can support things similar to bids and GIDs, maintenance, activation, beautification, but that's not what makes it unique. What makes it unique is that it can use TIF to finance catalytic, transformative capital projects at a scale that our existing tools simply don't have the revenue capacity to support at this moment.

[12:13] And in a few slides, we'll look at examples from other Front Range communities to illustrate what that looks like in practice. We can go to the next slide. This work has been heavily informed by the Planning Group, which is a group of community members convened to help guide the development of the DDA. A couple of you sit on that group representing the Commission, so we really appreciate that partnership. They provide ongoing feedback and meet monthly to weigh in on several concepts. They also serve, as a bridge between city staff and the broader community. And if this were to go to the ballot, they are anticipated to play a leadership role in campaign efforts as well. I'll also just note here that in parallel, we have a technical working group made up of cross-departmental city staff. They also meet monthly, to really just ensure that this effort aligns with city values, complements existing work, and doesn't duplicate efforts already underway, but adds value.

[13:16] Next slide. So, several key themes have surfaced pretty consistently from the planning group. First, redefining the core of downtown to more intentionally include the hill, and strengthening those connections between those two areas. Second, we've received strong feedback on the study area. There's support for continuing direct outreach to affected owners and businesses, especially before incorporating any of the broader areas we're considering, and I'll pull up the study area shortly here. There's also been a strong emphasis on not burdening the community with additional engagement. The city has conducted extensive engagement in the past, so really just building from past planning work to inform the plan of development, which I'll also dive into in a few slides.

[14:06] And we've heard clearly that there is limited appetite for an additional mill levy, particularly in Cages, where property owners are already paying additional property taxes. There's also an emphasis on a simple and streamlined governance structure that does not introduce unnecessary complexity. And lastly, and importantly, there's recognition that we're really at a pivotal moment that could shape the next several decades of our central business area. And its role as a regional economic engine. Next slide. So, before diving into these themes, I just want to briefly frame what the Plan of Development, or POD for short, actually is. The pod is ultimately the DDA's roadmap, and implementation plan. It guides DDA investments and functions essentially as a business plan.

[15:08] So, the themes you see here have surfaced. from past plans and engagement efforts. They've also been refined through the planning group, and they were informed by, input from the broader community during public info sessions that we held in late January. So we do intend to have a deeper discussion on these themes as we move into actually drafting the plot this spring. So at a very high level, the themes include, first, connecting people, destinations, and experiences. This really speaks to improving multimodal connections and wayfinding throughout the central business area. Creating great public spaces inspired by nature and art, so building off the civic area redevelopment work, and also thinking more holistically about our public realm. Revitalizing commercial spaces and supporting small businesses. This has been strongly favored by the community. It could really help address the higher commercial vacancy rates that we've been seeing.

[16:05] Supporting housing and everyday amenities, so building more complete neighborhoods where daily needs can be met and serve all community members. And then lastly, building a strong, coordinated system for district stewardship, so clearly defining roles between entities, strengthening partnerships, and leveraging work already underway. Next slide. So, as I've mentioned, several communities across the Front Range have DEAs, and this slide highlights a few examples of what neighboring communities have accomplished. In Denver, their DBAs focused heavily on large-scale placemaking and redevelopment projects that simply would not have moved forward under a bid or GID funding alone. This includes things like Civic Center, public realm improvements, financing to support adaptive reuse and new housing, and structured public-private partnerships. In Fort Collins, their DBA transformed dark alleys into activated pedestrian spaces with lighting, art, and wayfinding.

[17:11] They've also invested in old town square upgrades and supported redevelopment of vacant or stalled properties into productive mixed-use developments. So these examples just really help illustrate the scale of what DBAs can do in practice. Next slide. study area. This map shows, the current study area under evaluation. I do just want to mention that our focus right now is in the areas that are not shaded gray. Which includes our existing districts. So, Cajid, UGID, the bid, it also includes the civic area, and importantly, the connection between downtown and the Hill. Also, looking at areas such as East Pearl and North along Broadway up to Alpine Balsam as areas for future broader consideration. But before incorporating these areas into the actual study area map, we plan to conduct targeted outreach to property owners and businesses to cage their interest in being part of a district like this.

[18:20] So, this is a starting point, and this will be refined throughout the spring. I'm gonna pause, and then we're gonna hand it over to Amanda to go over the financial modeling, see if there are any questions. That was mostly framing. Stephanie? A couple of really quick… feedback for the presentation. I thought it was mostly clear. There was a bullet point that said, can bond, which I think should have been followed by, like. specifically can bond to the, like, I think you need your longer explanation, which is on another slide. It just… that's, like, such an important point, and it felt like it was…

[19:00] app said. Yes. And then… You said, like, if this goes to the ballot, is that purposely… Uncertain in how you phrased that? Yeah, I mean, we still have… to go to Council, we have a lot more outreach. Okay, so that's uncertain. Okay, and then the other thing is the pod, list. It was very esoteric, which maybe is purposeful, but it definitely didn't feel as much to me like definitive, like, output. Like, if I was… granted, this is for Council, and they know a lot about it, but, like, it felt a little bit like… well, what am I gonna get from that? Like, I'm not really sure what they're talking about, so… Yeah, no, that's good feedback, and maybe we can provide some specific examples. We're not quite there yet. Yeah, we only have, like, those high-level themes. And we'll be getting into those details over the next several months, but that's great feedback, and maybe I just call out some specific examples. Yeah, I think people…

[20:02] Yeah, specific examples help people to envision Versus just this, like, generic idea. Yeah, so, that's it. Thanks, Reagan. Yeah, yeah, we can keep on going. Yeah, so next slide here. So this slide provides a fairly high-level overview of what funding tools are available to a DDA. I know Regan had started to get into this, but we'll talk about it in a little more depth now. So the one this group may be a little less familiar with is tax increment financing. We find, this chart on the screen here is super helpful for explaining what TIP is and how it works. But in simple terms, TIP allows a DDA to capture a portion of the new tax revenue generated as both property values and sales activity grow above an established base. And then that

[21:03] that funds, those funds are reinvested into the district. So DDAs are able to leverage both property and sales TIF, which is notable here. It's essentially a way to use future growth to help pay for improvements, investments, that support economic development in the district's boundaries. So for Boulder, we are looking at using both property and sales tax tips, so the, Projections that I'll walk… I'll walk through will show both. They will be differentiated, which I think is helpful in just illustrating what that looks like, but we are looking at both property and sales tax increment. We are also evaluating the feasibility of a mill levy, so Regan had mentioned that we have heard loud and clear from the community that there is not an appetite for an additional assessment, particularly within the KJ boundaries.

[22:00] But we are looking at what it could look like to, apply the Cajid rate throughout our entire study area without layering on top. So it would… it would be… separate through the DDA, not an additional mill levy. I just want to make sure that's really clear in this discussion. One question I have around that… Yeah, yeah. …is the Hill is not in Cajid right now, so it'd be new for them, and same for all bike, also. It would be an increased mill levy for the hill to the Cajid. And depending on if we include alpine balsam commercial properties into the DDA, that would be a new property. So just to make… because I also want to be a proponent of this, I'm trying to be really clear and understand. Yeah. Hill isn't Engagement, or it has a separate mill levy, but it would kind of replace that one, too, for them. Exactly, the latter, yeah. So it would be one consistent rate throughout the entire study area, and we would not be layering on top of Cajid or Eugid. It would be replacing… No levy, and the hill is lower than Cajid, so… Yeah, so it would be an increase. So how… how does that…

[23:08] again, playing devil's advocate here. Yeah. If you're saying that we're in, like, economic stagnation and decline, and we're going to add a mill levy, that just isn't… gonna sit well, right? How do you counter that? And we're also gonna show them, like, that it's better. It's a great question, and I think, you know, will be the question that we'll get as we continue having these conversations. I think one thing that's helpful to just point out here, and we'll talk about this again when we get into the projections, but as you can see on the graph, and we've seen this in practice and other DDA work we've done around the state, that TIF does take time to build, and so a DDA's funding capacity is often pretty limited in the first several years of its existence. So a mill levy, when it is used by a DDA, is often used almost as gap financing, so that in those first several years, the DDA does have a dedicated funding source while the TIF is building, because otherwise, you know, there's a gap in the DDA being able to implement

[24:14] projects and investments right away. And I think I would just add, one of the reasons we're even exploring this is because of that economic stagnation. Its intent is to be a driver of economic activity, to kind of reverse that, and provide enhanced levels of service, and… catalytic projects that can kind of turn it around, yeah. Anticipating what… how Hill may respond to this, there would need to be some sort of what's in it for us now. Yeah. And that's where the TIF… could… or the mill levy could help, but initially, that's going to be seen as a penalty, and so there's got to be a vision for what do we mean by the next few years, something's going to happen, while the TIF itself starts building. Because otherwise, the hill is going to end up… I'll just speak, you know, on behalf of everyone, again, you know, here we are again. It's been like this for the Hill for

[25:11] generations, so what are the plans? Yeah. People are going to want to see that up front, and have something that they can hold onto that feels real, versus you're just going to see your mill lobby go up, and you're being merged with KJ. Yeah. No, that's really helpful feedback, and… something we've heard from our planning group as well, as we're… as we're working through this, so… Yeah, I appreciate that. I'll add one of the things that we directly heard from the planning group and included in the Council materials for next week is a discussion that they brought up very clearly, that we really need to make sure that this is framed as it's intended to do, which is joining the downtown and the hill and talking about what is possible from a transformation standpoint.

[26:00] And I think that's the big pitch, right, for the University Hill area in particular, is that the current… the current mill levy generates about $35,000. So it's just… it's not the driver, and we've been able to leverage the assets really importantly, and helped lead to the MOXIE, and we're at this kind of inflection point. And so, do we want to go at it alone, district by district, or do we want to have a more comprehensive vision of what that is? And if so, how do we make sure in the plan of development that there are specifics and that there's representation for the hill going forward? And I think that's come through the planning booth really well, and I think it's something we can make sure that we're lifting up in our conversation with Council. Yeah, yeah. Maybe, like, just starting with this slide, it doesn't feel like it's telling that story. Yeah. It's like… Actually, we're just gonna slide one of those mill levies in. Yeah, I mean, that sort of feels like that, like that narrative is missed. Yeah. And then back to what Ted's saying, it's like…

[27:00] I agree that, like, if you lay out, well, it's only $35,000, and… there's going to be this gap period, we could reinvest that money and not wait back into former UGID, then it would be like, oh, like, that's actually going to help me in the next 3 years. Otherwise, I have nothing. I think that is, like, the narrative, but it doesn't exactly come through in, you know, the way the slide is presented. Yeah. If I can add to that, Abby's planning groups. Something that was… that I thought was interesting that these JITs were… JITs had been… were, established in the 70s, I think. Yeah. 50-some years ago. And so… there's… there's a huge possibility that in those 50 years, this town has changed. I think everybody knows that. And, that this would be a way to, like, direct and streamline some of those improvement efforts.

[28:00] Like, as far as you guys are explaining it, it takes away some of the, like, bureaucratic red tape, because the downtime can kind of contribute directly into what it wants to contribute into, instead of going through a few different commission meetings, and… city planning meetings, you know, that takes months and months, and we can maybe streamline that and get some of those results faster. And I think we talked in one of the planning meetings about, Finding places for small wins, like, to… like, hey, this is, like, in the first year or two, this is a thing that we can, We can apply this to, and just, like, show people, like, hey, this is already working. I don't know that we had examples of that, but I know that that's coming. Yeah, and that's actually what we're going to be doing with the planning group and the technical working group this month, is getting into what are both some shorter-term, quick-win-type projects, and then also, if we're talking about transformative

[29:08] you know, investments, what are those examples, too? So… He's got plenty of those. We need to go. Yeah, it's more about prioritization here, actually. So yeah, we… we… that is, in, in short order on our upcoming, planning and, planning group and technical working group agendas. Yeah, I think it… just one last point on that. I think if you put your… yourself in the mind of someone who's, I'm a business owner, like, I'm… I'm someone who is just trying to, like, make it to the next month. Yeah. You could think about how to phrase something in a way that would be, like. Yeah, I think that… I think that's important, because some people are not inspired by, like, the long-term vision. They don't even know if they'll be around, right? Yeah. So there is some, like, a near-term quick wins. How will this help my business?

[30:00] thrive. or close down, like, right? If nothing happens, right? So it's the… how do we feel like we need to do something versus nothing, is also… that would maybe motivate someone in the near term. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, maybe we spend a little more time on the what, and then, you know, get into the how. The how, yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah, I think… You know, we are coming up on Sundance, and… that… I think, in and of itself, bringing a bunch of people into the town. Being able to capture some of that, like, built-in tax revenue that we are hopefully getting from an influx of I don't know, 100,000 people, you know, like, that's going to bring more sales tax, hopefully, and if you're one of the businesses that are positioned for that, being able to drag that back into where you exist, rather than, like, a general fund, or out east, or something like that, I think is an important thing to…

[31:03] talk about. And… If I can, one thing, Ted, I know, like, the Hill Merchants Association is really pretty, very excited about this, is just… being able to be a part of a larger pot and pulling from, you know, the Merchants Association has survived, really, on the goodwill of getting a small amount, every year to… do basic work and support the merchants up there, and the idea of being able to be part of a group that's pulling from lots and lots of blocks of TIF and bill levy, and, you know, pooling resources through marketing and… Wayfinding and resources is… really exciting, and I think could be, you know, explained as a direct, immediate win to the margins up there, is that we're all of a sudden going to be working together with this really large

[32:03] group that The Hill has kind of always been the smaller stepchild in a lot of ways, and it's exciting that we'll be able to work together, and I think Add more, funding available to us as well than ever before. It's… we're fully excited about it. Who do you represent? The Hill Boulder, which is the Merchants Association on the Hill. My mom owns the fitter, so… Oh, okay, yeah, yeah. So, my whole thing is, I think that Hill needed help 30 years ago, and 20 years ago, and 10 years ago, and, like, quite frankly. I don't know, I just… I read this, like, fluff, and it's just like, we're gonna build a bench, and it's like, my mom had to ask them to remove the bench because a homeless guy was sleeping on the bench, and it's like, I just… I struggle because I'm… I'm still… maybe we're not at the end yet. I need to see a slide that shows me the

[33:05] like, but what if it doesn't work? Or what… like, I need… I need some… everything feels like I need some info on, like, what the negatives are for this, because I can't imagine the hill… my mom is not gonna believe a word you say. waiting for the Moxie to be… and here's what's happening with the Moxie. They're coming, and they're walking down, and they're walking down, and they are not walking up. The hill is struggling really hard right now. I mean, you might know better than I, but… I mean, I also own Cafe Aon, the restaurant that's been there for 15 years, and I would say we are seeing Okay. From the Moxie, and I think, you know, your mom was instrumental in bringing the Moxie there, and the hill does have one other asset, right? The parking lot. And that's, like, a perfect spot to use this. Like, the hill has the asset that we get to take the whole region's

[34:02] TIF funding on, and do something with that surface lot. But who owns… I thought you owned that. Why is it a 24-7 pay? You're thinking the one across from… Yeah, that one is, like… Get a little free something, you know. I think that, you know, managing expectations of what can be done, too. I mean, I hear… I hear Dakota talk there, and he's talking as if that TIF money's just gonna come up the hill. There's a reason KJ's in this conversation. Yeah. And I think that's what I'm trying to bring to the conversation, is the Hill definitely needs to have prioritization. but with an acknowledgement that it's not going to be the only priority, that there will be other needs for that funding, and there will be limited funding in the first few years. So if we don't prioritize conversations about deferred plans, deferred maintenance for the Hill, it will not be addressed, and Cajun will suck that energy out of the room.

[35:05] So, just putting that out there for everyone. Maybe we should get back to you, Chris. It's all good feedback, so we very much appreciate it. I think the only thing left I wanted to point out on this slide, Stephanie, to your point earlier, DDAs do have the ability to bond, particularly if there is a larger scale kind of capital improvement or redevelopment opportunity. DDAs are able to be, really instrumental in that. The other thing I want to say about this slide before we move on is, there are potentially four ballot questions, for electors in the DDA formation process. So, forming the DDA is a question. Utilizing tax increment financing is a question. If we want to pursue a mill levy, that's a separate question, and then the ability to bond is another separate question.

[36:01] Just something to keep in mind, and as we get further along in this process. That's one of the reasons why messaging around all of this becomes so important. But just want to point that out. We have worked on DDA formation efforts where some questions have passed, some have failed, but then we've come back a year later and, you know, been able… so they… this can go a few different ways, and I think, the questions you're asking, the conversation we're having, is all really helpful in how we end up framing all of this to the community, so… I think we could keep going here. So, some key considerations before we dig into, the TIF and the mill levy projections, in addition to what we were just talking about. I do just want to reiterate, the numbers that we're providing you today are illustrative, they are projections. Projections are equal parts art and science, so unfortunately, none of us have a crystal ball and know what's going to happen, but we're going to give you

[37:01] Our precedent from having done this in other communities, and just what we've seen in the economic conditions here in Boulder. I also do want to point out that we would be using 2026 as a base year for tax increment financing if we are able to get that approved. And as we… Regan and I mentioned earlier, these productions do illustrate both property and sales TIF. So they are differentiated, you'll see that as we get into it, but I just want to point that out. On sales tax, the increment that would be collected by the DDA would be the city's portion of the increase in sales tax above the base, including dedicated funds. That's what we're looking at right now. We're still workshopping and exploring and having internal conversations, but I just want to be clear about What that means. On property tax, the increment capture would include funds that would otherwise go to the other taxing authorities, so that includes the Boulder Valley School District, Boulder County, and others, above that base year as well. One of our immediate next steps after this, or after City Council, rather, will be to speak with these taxing entities and talk about what this means.

[38:21] and the implications and all of that. But again, just want to be clear about where these funds actually come from. And then as we mentioned, We are pursuing sales tax. I know, something we'll be exploring as we get further along in this process. is, if we want to pursue a potential revenue share on sales tax with the city, that's something we've seen done in other communities. So, we're still fairly early on in all of this, and we'll be workshopping ideas over the next several months here, but, just want to throw that out there. On the mill levy side, as we mentioned, we are exploring the use of a mill levy at the Cajid rate, so

[39:03] For 2026, that's 3.674, and that would be for the entire DDA area. So those numbers that we're going to be showing shortly, that's… that's where they're coming from. Amanda, can I just make sure we reiterate when we're talking about the different audiences that the KJID boundaries and the bid boundaries do not match up? Yeah. So some of the bid boundary people are looking at a mill levy would be looking at the potential mill levy that they don't… Yeah, so… Similar to what the message needs to be with the Hill, it's going to be with those people as well. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, thank you. That's… that's really good feedback. Just from understanding all this, is the DDA is its own organization, so when you're talking about revenue sharing to the city, I think if you know this stuff, you kind of know that. Yeah. I think. it isn't… the DDA isn't the city, and making sure that's clear, too, in the… just how we explain it. Yeah, absolutely. Yep, that's really good feedback. I have a question, and excuse my ignorance, because I don't completely understand all of this.

[40:05] that if the funds are diverted from, let's say, Boulder Valley School District. what happens as costs continue to rise? So, it's about half and half. I think… does it say that? Oh, yeah, it does… I didn't… I just didn't point it out, so apologies for that. Okay, so natural appreciation continues to increase the base over time, and then about… so it's about 50-50, and then, you know, new investment, the increase from that is what will go to the DDA. And that's actually decided by the assessor. Just having, you know, worked on this type of project in other communities, it's generally about 50-50. In a way, if you went back to the one slide that had the charts, it's more like, if you don't have the TIF, see, it's still going up. Yeah, exactly. And it's subtle on that slide. I think we talked about that being a major objection, and that's a great rebuttal to the objection. Yeah, that's true. In a way, you'd almost break that up into slides to show, like, see, there's gonna be

[41:10] progress. Yeah, and it's the but-for argument, right? If the DDA isn't there making the investments, are we going to have that extra increment? That's, you know, that's the basic argument for, creating a district like this. Yeah. All right, let's get into the numbers. So we looked at two different growth scenarios, 1% real growth, so again, not including inflation or appreciation. This is what we're calling conservative in Boulder, where it's fairly built out. This is honestly the more likely scenario, versus 2.5% real growth, which is what we're showing as a more aggressive option. But you can see here, the property tax increment is on the bottom there, it's in dark blue. Sales tax increment is on the top in the lighter blue. And then you can see over the 30-year period at the bottom there what the cumulative amounts are, just based on these estimates.

[42:10] So the total would be just over $140 million in cumulative, property and sales tax increment. The star on the chart there is showing a $5 million annual threshold, which will be interesting when you look at this compared to the more aggressive scenario, and just how that changes based on the amount of growth we may see. But, you know, even at this more kind of conservative rate, we're talking real money here, and real opportunity for transformative change. And you may have already mentioned this, Amanda, so apologies if I'm repeating, but these numbers reflect the study area that does not include those gray areas for broader consideration. So it's KGID, the BID, you did, and the connection between…

[43:03] And not Alpine Balsam. Not Alpine Balsam, and not East Pearl going to Folsom. Because that was another. Yeah, in all of these numbers, that's… yeah, that's the area we looked at here. So let's go to the next one here. So this is, 2.5 Real Grove, and again, we're saying this is fairly aggressive for a community that's, you know, our study area is mostly built out. But you can see, again, I mean, we… that… that 1.5% extra growth, results in a pretty substantial difference in the amount of increment we can generate. So in this scenario, the DDA would potentially generate over $400 million during its 30-year lifespan. So again, a lot of potential for transformative change here. If, you know, if we decide to move forward and pursue this district. In information design, you put the scale the same on both, because really, the charts look the same on both pages, but it's because one… and the first one ends at 12,

[44:07] Yeah, yeah. That was… they're 12 million, and this one's at 35. So… to show the difference, they would both have 35 as your top number. Yeah, yeah, also find it. Like, can you… Can you add the two together for your total and put them on the slides? I don't see… Oh, to compare? The $224 plus the $1. Yeah, we're having to do, like, math. Yeah, which you could do. Yeah, this was a test. Yes, you're passing. Yeah, but you can see, I mean, the amount of $5 million increments, I think, is really, indicative of how much more you would be generating in a scenario. Good question. Yeah? At what point are we thinking about leveraging a bond to do big projects? Do we have to wait 10 years before we actually see these transformative things? Or are we bonding up one because we have this long-term… It depends.

[45:08] So, so these… all of these revenue scenarios are based on taxes, not necessarily taxes, but the increment of taxes. There's other revenue scenarios where we look at assets, right? You mentioned there's one remaining asset on the Hill, there's 5, 6 assets downtown, plus, well, 7, plus a surface lot, so there's other opportunities beyond just TIF. Now, if we explore those other opportunities, the bonding capabilities increase, and not necessarily in terms of, like, the dollar amounts. but in the speed of which we can bond against. That said, though, it's not uncommon for entities and districts to bond against TIF at a relatively young stage. So, is it something we're going to have to wait 15 years before we can do an aggressive bond and do some real general improvements? No, probably not.

[46:01] Is it… 3? Is it 5? Those… is it 1? Those all kind of depend on the different revenue scenarios in which we play against, but I think… what I would take away from this slide is that it's… the 30-year capacity is how much money you kind of have to do improvements in the early stages. You don't have to wait for all of this money accumulated to be able to do the work, right? So, it's not like, great, 30 years later, we can finally do something, you know? When you're talking about those assets being included in the bonding, does that, like, mean, like, selling one of them, or what does that mean by including them? Revenue. So using the revenue as a credit-worthy sub. Other bonds, you know. here's how much revenue we create, we can bond against it, because it has the full faith. And Cajun has done bond revenue bonds in the past as well, so they have a bond rating in terms of the district itself, and so that also helps expedite the bonding process. And that's if, and we'll get to that a little bit later, but that's if the DDA has control over the existing GID assets.

[47:09] So that's a consideration, because if we go to the bond market and say, well, just trust us, look at this slide, we're gonna get to… we're gonna get to $400 million, they're gonna say, well, that's an awfully aggressive, graph that you don't have recent history in realizing. And so, they would ask, is the general fund, is the city backing that? And that's a policy question. I don't know what the appetite is. Typically, we've been… city hasn't been super aggressive in that space to kind of back, you know, debt in that way. So then your option would be to leverage the existing assets. If you were… if you were looking to borrow early But this is… it's all, right, part of one picture. It's why the mill levy conversation's important. A difficult conversation, but important to have that source of revenue coming in within that first, kind of, five-year period. Without that, just sales tax. Yeah, just your… just your TIF. Just your TIF. Both of which is not the TIF differentiation. Yeah. It's like after even 1 year of actuals, this will be…

[48:14] like, this is such a huge event that you can't exactly predict, and then year one, and I'm doing this for a client now, and I'm like, let's just do a base case based on actuals, like, we just do this, and then you can see, like, you have your projections, and you have a base case, which is, like. we don't expect any future growth, we just expect it to stay this much better between the first year and the second year. I'm sorry, the baseline of the first year, so… it's hard now. Yeah, it is. When I was saying it's more art than science. Yeah, but after one year, it will be… yeah, more science, yeah, yeah, for sure. So, for regional DDA examples that were given before, what were there? If we looked back at what they actually did, that a projection, was it 1%? Was it… I know that this is not a one-to-one comparison, these are different areas, but what are we seeing there in terms of how Denver did this, and what they saw, and what Fort Collins did, and what they saw?

[49:09] Yeah, Fort Collins would be an interesting one for us to look at, and what their first… because they're actually in their second term now, so they had an initial 30-year term, and they got extended for an additional 20-year term. But that's a great… that would be a great piece of… and easy for us to find, so… Yeah, I wonder if there's a way of, like, right-sizing it, so that the numbers make sense against who we are, what our community is, like a per capita, or a… that's the wrong way to say it, but you know what I'm trying to say. Yeah. So it's ratioed correctly, so that we're not presenting Denver numbers to Boulder. Well, and we did take that into consideration in pulling the… even these rates here, because, I'm just even thinking in Lafayette when we did this. last year, we were using, I think, 3.5% and 5%. So it just, you know, because they have more developable land, there's more opportunity. Denver is a whole different… a whole different ballgame, because they created their DDA to finance the infrastructure around Union Station, and then it… it, you know.

[50:08] went wild. So they're… they're not a great example to… to pull from for this, but Fort Collins, and maybe some of these other, you know, DDAs around here, even Longmont, I'm thinking, might be helpful to take a look at and have those numbers handy. Might be good for policymakers to have a yardstick, you know, like, it's not just… Oh, bar chat. Yeah, I mean, this is, you know, hockey stick growth. Great! Let's do it! Yeah, yeah, no, that's great. Thank you. Any other questions, thoughts on this before we keep going? Okay. So projected mill levy revenue. Again, this is something we would view as a way for the DDA to, in its first several years, have dedicated financing. So that's why we're evaluating it. In some communities, we don't go down this road, understanding that there's not a political appetite for it. We're not there yet here, we're just trying to take a temperature and gauge where

[51:08] the community's at, where Council is at, but we at least want to have it as an option and illustrate what the DDA could do with this type of funding in the first few years here. So you can see here, the combined KJID and Eugen mill levy revenue for 2025, and then you can see it's not a huge increase to bring in, the areas that are currently outside of, a GID or, increasing UGID's rate. So that's what the number on the… in the right-hand column is showing. If we applied the KJID rate to the entire study area in 2025, that is how much the DDA would be generating, as… as… as mill levy revenue. How many businesses are in the hill? We can look that up, we have the personal data. I'm just like, there's 20, and it's 20 divided by,

[52:06] 3 million. Or 300,000, I mean. To Don's question, kind of playing on that, what I think would be really helpful, especially for businesses, is we just take an idea of, like, what does that actually translate to for an individual business? Yeah. Because everyone keeps trying to, like. do the math, but having an actual something would be super helpful. The other end of it, it just seems like no money, like, what are you doing with this? Like, it's gonna be 3 benches? I'm kidding. I do mean, like, expectation setting of, like, this is gap financing, and then it's, like, what… just not that much money. Yeah. I know. To you. If not, it's going to you, right? Yeah, you know what I mean? Like, we're making that big deal. It's just… and to go through it, even on the ballot, for just that little money, it just…

[53:04] Kind of seems like peanuts, I don't know, maybe… I think a good way to look at the mill levy is to think of it as less of, that's going to be the money you do the improvements with. is more of, like, that's the money that's going to maintain operations. Okay. The TIF is what's going to make those big impacts, right? So that's where it's coming from. The middle of you is, like. let's keep the lights on, let's keep the place clean… That's what we're doing already. Correct. So it's like, let's continue those services that we have grown to know in the operations of. That's what this does, is it stabilizes that, especially from the onset of the formation. So, in theory, this DDA gets developed, and Eugene and Kajit go bye-bye. What happens to all those services that Eugene and Kjit are accustomed to? Okay. That's when this comes in. That's whispering to me that the hill is 300 grand. in the… Red every year. There's a $270,000 general fund transfer. And so there it is. Yeah, okay. Roughly. It's not… There's a difference between those two. Well, and the $3 million difference isn't just the hill, because it's actually capturing everything going up to the hill as well. There's not a lot of property that's on that way, but it is capturing, so it's not just the hill.

[54:18] It's a little bit bigger than that, but yeah, I mean, is there… I mean, the 1.7-ish mils that's up on the hill right now is what's producing the $35,000. You're, in some regards, doubling that, if not tripling, so $70,000 is what you're actually producing on the hill at this point, with the 3.674. So the $3 million is actually coming from Cajid getting bigger wings, or including more of the big properties, that's a big portion of that $3 million, and then coming up Broadway as well. So, you could look at it like that, but really, KJID, because it's 1.7 mils going from that to 3.6, it's not like it's producing

[55:00] an extra $230,000. It's actually only producing about another $40,000. So it's not that big of an impact. It's everything else out. That's a good way to say it for the Hill. For the hill, it's only $40,000 for all total, both of you. Well, I think Terry brings up a really good point, is like… Well, and we have the data by sub-area, too, those sub-areas that we were showing on the map. So we could, I mean, we could pull that out. and say for the L, That's what this, you know, this is the number. That's cheaper for the hill, too. I mean, we saw that in the plan. Yeah, I think we can have that level of detail, yeah. But also seeing it from, like, a property owner's perspective, if you're a business or commercial. what does a 3.76 or 674 mil look like? I think would be really helpful, too. Yeah. So, one thing to keep in mind for tonight, just to try to keep us on track, I think it would be helpful for… if you all could advise, kind of, what is helpful for Council to hear as an audience next week, versus

[56:03] And a lot of this discussion is helpful for what the business community will need to hear, and we need to hear both, so I think just helping us… Well, Chris, I'm just saying that I, like, I am so freaking confused right now. and this is, like, the third presentation, like, hour-long presentation I've sat in on this. I just had to Google, like, wait, what's a mill again? Like. So, I'm just… if you want to actually talk to business owners about this, I don't know, you're gonna have to figure out a way to, like, have an entry slide, because I'm just… I still am super confused, and that you guys are selling it so hard that it makes me feel like, why do you have to sell it so hard if it's so great? There's so much data up here that I'm just like, if it's such a no-brainer… But I think what Mark was talking about is that it's first got to go to Council. And then… Then the campaign to sell it to business owners start. If, like, this is… this is a cloud right now, you know, like, until… But I just don't feel like I can even participate in this right now, because I have no idea what you guys are talking about. So, actually, this is a great segue from Council to ballot.

[57:11] So once Council formally adopts an ordinance of it, in a lot of regards, we kind of step back, and we let the community run these conversations. So we're here just to get Council educated and up to speed on what the community has been telling us, and the research we've been doing. Council then decides to make a formal ordinance to whether or not to put it on the ballot. At that point, we step back and we let the community And that's really where our partnerships with, like, DBP and Hill Merchant Association come into play. So that's where, hopefully, those conversations… and we will still continue to be able to provide information. But we step back a little bit more and let the community have those conversations if you can't have it. That's correct. That's a… it was a really long way of saying… After it's on the ballot, yeah. Oh, good, okay, yes. That is super good feedback, and I just want to say this is super technical. It is very technical. I really appreciate that. I had to create a spreadsheet to understand my own property taxes, because what the heck is a mill? And a mill goes back to, like.

[58:15] I just read it. Yeah, go Latin. Yeah, and go Latin. One thousandth of… Assessed value, yeah. It's crazy. Right, okay. And then throw in your assessed rate that the state senates, or whatever. It's… property taxes are one of the most confusing things. That's… yeah, on purpose. I think we just have maybe a couple more slides here. So these next two are just showing that, if we… if we do include a no levy question on the ballot. It is common to include debruicing language with a DDA mill levy question on a ballot, yeah, which we can get into, but it basically allowed the mill levy to keep the same rate year over year versus it being subject to TABOR restrictions where it has to be limited if the amount is growing. So.

[59:09] That's what this is showing here. You can see it's very modest growth, but the mill levy would potentially grow over time as well. And that's just what the next two slides are showing. So that one was more conservative, this one is the more aggressive option, but… still relatively modest, financing from a potential mill levy here. And I want to stress, too, that this is… The mill levy of which the property tax is based on does not change. Yeah. In these scenarios. Just the amount of revenue it creates. The value of the properties are going up, so 3.674, is staying stable, but it's just as the property value goes up, do you collect more revenue? Which also means, as a property owner, you're also paying more property taxes. But it's not because of change in bill levy, it's no, it's change in property value. Yeah. What's our… what was our… what's our real growth in Boulder for the last 10 years? Like, what… what are we looking at? Is it a 1%? Is it a 2.5%? Oh, man. It's part of the improvement analysis. Before 2020, I thought it was, like, it was more than 2.5. It was, and then…

[60:20] after 2020, and less than 1%, I think, actually, which… value erosion. Yeah. So it's… if it averaged the last 10 years, we're probably looking at something at 1% or less. Is that accurate? Well, if the DDA does its job, right? Yeah. That's the whole point, is to start to bring the values of everything. We can have that information, I know. Yeah, we have it. I've heard Brad talk about the… there's… you really need to talk about the before COVID, after COVID, growth, and it seems like a standard question that Council may end up asking about if they don't already know. Yeah, and we could include

[61:03] that information. We have, like, the charts and stuff going back. 10 years, so we could include that. Maybe just a foot, though, would be… yeah. I mean, for Council. This seems in the weeds, if this… do we need these two slides? Because really, we're just talking about tax and financing. And what the difference is. This is just a little… icing on the cake of everything else. This seems minutia to talk about in light of everything else, and I… that's my initial impression, I… fight me, if you want, stand up for it, but I don't think we need these slots. Yeah, I think, yeah, we were just kind of trying to illustrate, you know, the… the mill levy can grow as well, not at the same rate as Tim. It's too much, yeah, yeah, no, I appreciate that, yeah.

[62:00] Sorry to talk to you about the slides and the information and things that might be helpful to put in front of Council with that, is there was this slide that showed the mill levy and how the hills, or UCMC's small portion would grow into it. But I think it might be an interesting footnote. that it's an opportunity for the Hill to be a part of a larger funding mechanism, which I know for Council has been a struggle over 10, 20, 30 years, is we want to support it, but, like, where's the money on the trees? And this is a way for that district to be a part of a larger funding mechanism might be a good place to make that direct point. Sweet. Yep. Okay, we haven't even gotten into the meeting yet, so… I want to spend a few moments here, because this is really one of the core policy discussions.

[63:03] As Amanda walked through, a DDA has a few potential funding tools. Property tax tip, sales tax tip. And a potential no levy. I won't be a strain. Take care. It's been a pleasure. Okay, I'm just going to recap. So, a DEA has a few potential funding tools. Property tax tip, sales tax tip, and a mill levy. And so the question is really about how, or if we use them all together. Based on the modeling so far, property tax tip alone likely does not generate enough capacity to meaningfully reinvest at the scale that we've been discussing, particularly if the goal is transformational capital projects.

[64:10] And at the same time, as we've mentioned, TIF takes time to grow. It really doesn't provide that immediate operational stability in the early years. So that's why our initial staff direction is to explore a coordinated funding strategy with a mill levy to provide that stable base funding for operations. Potentially replacing the Cajun mill for the entire DDA area, and then exploring both property and sales tax TIF to build that long-term reinvestment capacity. And the goal here is really to balance immediate stability with that growth-based capital capacity. I guess just emphasizing, again, this is not a final recommendation. There are still a lot of fiscal impact questions and more financial modeling and analysis to work through, including impacts to the general fund, other taxing entities, potential revenue sharing structures.

[65:11] As well as outreach to those who are not currently paying an additional property tax associated with a mill levy. So what we're going to ask Council next week is whether this general direction makes sense to continue refining this integrated funding model with an emphasis on fiscal safeguards. Intergovernmental coordination, and really clear parameters to be established in the plan of development and potential revenue sharing agreements. I'll just add, why is this important, and why are we kind of leading with this question for Council? A, they need to approve anything that goes on the ballot, so if we have a mill levy option, Council has to approve it being on the ballot, so that's why we're emphasizing the question about mill levy.

[66:01] And then I think… I think sales tax TIF is going to be an interesting policy conversation, because unlike property tax that we talked about, how your base property values grow over time, and all that increase in property taxes that are on the base go to those taxing entities, including the city, it is not defined that way for sales tax. So your base is your base. If your base is $10 million in sales tax. your base is $10 million for the 30-year period, unless you establish a separate revenue-sharing agreement. And so. the downtown is an economic engine, right? I think there's going to be some concerns about, well, wait a minute, that means that if we're… if we're kicking ass downtown. That money is no longer, whatever that total number is over the 30 years, is not going to police, fire, parks and rec, open space, all the other things that sales tax bonds. And so, I don't have an answer, but I suspect that we'll be having a conversation about what are those guardrails.

[67:02] guarantee some type of investment for a VDA, and also guarantee above some type of threshold that there's, that there's some increment sharing or some revenue sharing. with the city. So, I think, you know, it is wonky, and we have to get in the weeds in order to explain some of that, but I think that's one of the big policy questions that Council has to wrestle with, and why we're seeking feedback on that now, so that we can continue the planning going forward. So, Mark, if they say, no, you can't put a mill living question on the ballot this time, can it be written in the plan of development to revisit it in the future? But regardless of that, every time, Council would have to approve that, so… Yep. I anticipate the mill levy question will be easier. I don't want to speak for Council, but I think where the planning group's advice has been helpful is to say, at least for KJID property owners, it wouldn't exceed the mill levy as to where they're at today.

[68:08] I think that helps. I do think they will be interested in talking through the implications of the sales tax, Tiff. And so now we might… now you're saying we might have to share it? So, I think on, you know, those graphs of what we're showing is that So the 1% growth, I mean, that… That's an easy one to imagine. So if you just have that 1% amount, the… the other… the city is not losing out on a ton of new funding. It's what happens if it's 4%? And then, if you don't establish those parameters at the outset, then all of that increment, which is over time hundreds of millions of dollars, would go to the DDA only. And so I think, you know, just trying to put my… my shoes in a council member's seat, they would look at that and say, well, what… if we're outperforming, how do we make sure that we're sharing in some of that success? And I don't know what that answer is, but I think we are… we are saying… we acknowledge that there would have to be some reasonable

[69:13] revenue sharing agreement. The planning group and you all will have input on what that… what that means, and what is appropriate, and Council will as well. We'll probably have to land somewhere in the middle on that. In a way, like, you know, I'm in South Boulder, and the South Boulder people are pushing hard for a new rec center. They are. And, I appreciate it. And, So, like, yeah, please… everything has, like, priorities, and with Sundance coming, I could see their bit of, challenge that Sundance is really coming to Chautauqua, CU… downtown, that's where people are going to be spending most of their time, although they're going to have to spend time, you know, renting Airbnbs and eating all throughout town, but downtown's going to be getting the focus, is the loci of

[70:11] Sundance, and so… we are approaching the DDA at a really good time with that, using 2026 revenues with the idea that Sundance is 2027. that engine should go fast, and so I think, I do see some just challenges as how we present this whole deck. Overall, to counsel. it… You need to know a lot to know what questions to ask. And… after being on the DMC for 5 years, I know that I have to ask questions that I'm not always presented with. To know… I have to be wise to know what I need to ask, because it's not always there. And so, sorry to… so, like, when I just see some of this, I'm like.

[71:01] I appreciate what Erica said. It's like, we're pushing so hard what… I think there's just a different way we can present all of this, and it just… and I… I don't have that at my fingertips right now, but, like. To me, this is not a clear… Here's what you need to know to make a wise decision. And so I think there does need to be a thing about, we need to address the growth engine, and say, right from the start, that if it is over the 2.5%, we're estimating 1 to 2.5%. I'm just spitting this out there. That if it's above that, if it hits 4, anything above 4, the city gets, or it's not split, or something. I think we need to address that right from the start. I'm gonna build on what you're saying there, because I couldn't agree more, and I think part of it is that there are certain council members that are very knowledgeable, and they will sniff out and be the ones to drive the conversation, and it would be helpful, perhaps, to help the others on council To maybe prevent… and not prevent that from happening, but let them feel like they have more of a voice than they might otherwise have.

[72:07] in the face of those walks that are on Council. And so it could be some definitions up front, recommendations on growth, those kinds of things, to help guide the conversation a little bit, so that you don't end up with one or two individuals basically dominating how the discussion proceeds. I think all that's helpful, and the reason why we wanted to have this joint commission before, the Council meeting. What I think I'm hearing is maybe there's ways we can build in a few, like, very solid examples of how, kind of, the policy direction could be built into our planning. So we can take that back, and I heard a lot in the beginning of Establishing the why all over again. Which will be helpful. I just want to give Regan props, though, because I've sat through this presentation, I don't even know how many times now, and I think that your intro and everything, finally, there was really solid structure, so I know it's confusing, but I want to say, like, from where we've

[73:10] seen it from the beginning to where you just presented. You do a really excellent job. And… we're still all confused about everything, but I just wanted to acknowledge, Regan, that… that was a really solid intro that you provided, so… I see. I can tell you all have very strong knowledge and concept. And I'm trying to tell the story in a strong way, so that it becomes clearer, because you have to hear it. To get it. Yeah. We are… do it all. Yeah. We are coming to Council, they have heard two updates on this, and so they have a little bit of the background, and I know that it's hard to refresh memory, kind of on the fly. I think the memo will do a really nice job of outlining some of the history of that. And it is something they've asked for, so I don't… I think there is a ton of work to build the case within the business community, and the folks that will ultimately end up voting on this is whether or not we should do it. But I do think Council will have a good amount of background and want to hear where we're at in terms of staff recommendations that's informed by this commission, these commissions, and our planning group, so…

[74:19] I think refining this, based on your feedback is really helpful, and we'll get there. Mark, is this… is it this study session completely on this topic, or are we in the midst of… It is all… it is 90 minutes on DDI. All right. So less than us. Yes. There's two of you. Let's see… Alright, let's keep going. We can just go right into the next slide. So we're getting into governance now. So super briefly, we want to walk through the statutory basics of how a DDA board is structured under Colorado law. It must have between 5 and 11 members.

[75:07] Board members must be either a business owner, a resident, or property owner within the DDA area. And importantly, the majority of the board must either live in or own property within the district. So it's really designed to be district-rooted and locally accountable. One member of the board must be a city council member, and all board members are appointed by the mayor and confirmed by council, so there's formal public process. And lastly, board members cannot be paid. Does this come from the law, or is this just how we would set it up? State statute. Yep, it's state statute, okay. Does CU own any properties currently within the boundaries that are being, presented? I believe in the connection between the Hill to downtown, so Limelight isn't… Okay. Done. Just curious. Is there regulations on where those board members are from inside of the…

[76:04] That's something you actually outline in the plan of development, and make sure there's geographic representation. We often will also provide recommendations on, you know, we need at least one business owner, we need a commercial property owner, we need a resident, so you can… There is some flexibility with that, but it's… we would work with, you know, the city team and the community to make sure that's outlined in the plan of development. So, this slide reinforces how Council retains meaningful oversight regardless of the governance structure, which I'll get into in just a moment. Council appoints the board, has a seat on the board, they approve the annual DDA budget and operating plan, and they must approve any ballot measures that the DDA might pursue, such as Bonding authority or a mill levy. Okay, so the policy consideration. Under state statute, a DEA can either operate under the municipality, so that just kind of means city staff would manage day-to-day operations, finances, administration, or it can operate as a standalone authority with its own staffing.

[77:14] After evaluating workload, the scale of potential funding, and the fact that this effort has been very community-driven, we're… our initial direction that we're exploring is a standalone DDA model. The reasoning is fairly straightforward. If this moves forward at the scale contemplated, it would really require dedicated capacity. We want to avoid diverting existing city staff from other priorities. And as I mentioned, this effort has really been community-led with sustained engagement from community members, and so a standalone model kind of reinforces that while maintaining, formal city oversight at the same time. There will… inevitably be a transition process, so we're anticipating a one- to two year-based ramp-up where city staff would provide administrative and financial support before full independence, in which we'd likely seek consultant support on that to help get us set up for success.

[78:17] And again, just like the previous slide, this is direction, not a final determination. I think there are really pros and cons to both models, and so we're going to continue evaluating, operational and financial implications before bringing anything forward for action, but this is the initial direction. I only have a few more slides, so let's get to try and survivants. Okay, this is likely the most complex policy area. Formation of a DDA naturally raises the question, what happens to KJID and Eugid, and the parking assets? So we're evaluating several structures. One option is that the DVA ultimately owns and operates some or all of the assets.

[79:08] That could consolidate governance, strengthen bonding capacity, and kind of create a single accountable system for capital planning and reinvestment. Another option is that the city retains ownership, and the DDA operates assets through an intergovernmental agreement. That preserves municipal ownership, may limit capacity or capital structuring flexibility. And then a third option is that the GIDs remain the asset owners, they remain in existence, and the DDA focuses primarily on reinvestment and broader district strategy. That, however, could introduce governance complexity if rules aren't clearly defined. And across all models, one principle remains consistent in that Parking should function as an enterprise. We obviously have several parking structures downtown, and the revenues generated within those parking structures should support the maintenance and the long-term capital needs within those parking structures. So that kind of remains consistent.

[80:17] With whichever model we choose. Let's go to the next. So, this slide reflects our current direction, for continued dialysis. The policy consideration here is defining the DDA's relationship to Cajun and Eugid and the parking assets. Based on planning group input and the need for clearer accountability and stronger long-term reinvestment capacity, we are refining a model where the DBA would ultimately own and or operate some or all of the district assets. This approach would consolidate governance, align operations and capital planning under a single authority, and it would better integrate parking operations into broader economic development and revitalization strategies. So, under a DDA ownership model, UGID and KJID could be dissolved, and the assets would be transferred to the DDA, which would include a

[81:17] structured transition period. So we have a lot of work to do before this is a final recommendation. We're going to continue evaluating implications, guardrails, alternatives. But the question we intend to bring to Council next week is if they support continued evaluation of a DDA ownership model while deeper legal, financial, and transition analysis is completed, and these alternatives kind of remain on the table. One more slide. One more. I promise. Next steps, so next week is the study session, as we've mentioned, on Thursday.

[82:03] Through the spring, we're going to continue refining the plan of development, conducting more detailed financial and legal analysis, particularly around the funding strategy and the structural considerations. We will continue targeted outreach to property owners and businesses related to the study area boundary, both direct one-on-one outreach and potentially smaller group sessions that myself and Puma would facilitate. And the goal is to return to Council by June to confirm priorities in the plan of development, and determine whether to refer formation and funding measures to the ballot. And if referred, the election would be November of this year. what point… does this get put on the ballot? None of these seem to be, and it's going to be put on the ballot. That's not till June. June is going to be, like, the next thing that says, we've done the work, here's what we're going to do, you want to put it on the ballot? That's the question then.

[83:06] I see Mark nodding. Yeah, June… so, likely June, we'll have another discussion with Council and kind of get the final say. They technically will consider the ballot language at the same time they consider other ballot initiatives, and they do that typically late July into August. So that would be the final final, but we'd be hoping in early June to get the final yes or no. Now, I'll just say on the… on the GID question, that is not… that would not happen, even if everything goes according to plan, voters approve the DDA, that would not happen January 1 of 2027. It would be some type of transition period where we'd have to figure out the assets and all of that kind of stuff. But I think as you all are thinking about your roles.

[84:04] words, I think that would be a big one, right? If the DDA is created, it's to help navigate and advise on some of that transition structure. So, within this presentation, you're not going to talk about how the election works with the businesses. I'm… I know it's another layer of But are you… do you think that will come up at all, in terms of what would be needed for the paths? I would assume there will be questions. You know, we had to try to figure out what a 90-minute item would be with Council. I, you know, I think they… they have to weigh in now on whether or not they support this moving forward towards a ballot item. And the key elements of that are how… what is the funding picture going to look like, knowing that there are some trade-offs with with city funding. That's why we're focused on that. I think you're right, the last fact. This all sounds great, and I can already hear one council member say, like, this is all great, why aren't we just doing this? Just tell us.

[85:10] how do we make sure it's successful? I think there would be questions like that, but I think we want to make sure that there's a majority of Council that support these initial recommendations. Is there any feedback that Council's given since the first presentation that… we should be, I don't know, on top of mind about how this presentation then came together? Or is that even something we should do? Yeah, it's a good question, and they've been receiving, brief updates. I, you know, I think we would have a good sense if there was a major policy shift from where we've been. you know, it is an important conversation to gut check that with Council. I also think the planning group has been really helpful, and my sense is that Council will be very open to the planning group's feedback thus far, you know, as the key stakeholders within

[86:12] the potential area. So, we'll lean on that and see… see what they have to say, based up for that buffet. Thanks. The study session next Thursday's open. It is, it is all virtual. Oh, virtual, so don't bother. Yeah, that's true. Normally locked anyway. There's been a lot of work that's gone into this. I know that, I mean, you were already talking about the improvements that you've seen. I've seen a presentation like this multiple times, and it's come a long, long way, so… you know, any sort of feedback that, you know, I've given is really meant towards trying to make it stronger, particularly in the face of knowing counsel. And knowing how counseled may approach these things. So, good work in terms of getting to this point.

[87:06] You're not out of the woods yet. Like, there's still so much to do. And really, you know, council is only one factor, right? I think Erica was bringing on, you know, the biggest hurdle, really. I think council may see the logic. They may be, you know, pragmatic about what's necessary to do for the city. electors can be a little less pragmatic, or so focused on their pragmatism that maybe the whole pragmatism gets lost on them. So, I don't know what I'm really trying to say there, other than thank you for your work and your service, and keep going, because this is important work. What I can see, Ted, what you're saying, though, is, like. while we're selling it to Council, you're starting this… it's gonna hit the news. Yeah, yeah, exactly. There's certain things you need to kind of set the foundation for what the long-term sale is, too. Good point, yeah.

[88:04] Yeah, we can take that, and I, I think, Really lifting up what are some of the potential examples of how what a DEA could do, I think that would be helpful. And then I know you all are already planning some work with the planning group. I'm assuming it'll come back in some format to these commissions on more concrete terms, what would actually be in a plan for a DBA, and I think that will help, and that will be a main focus of Council's next conversation in June is, okay, you said you liked this, making some assumptions, and we've marched forward. Here is, here is what a short-term looks like, what a DDA would work on, and here's a longer-term vision, and that'll help start really painting that picture. Cal, you've been in the working group, and I really always value your input on You think of things differently than I do.

[89:01] Are there things that have come up for you that… Honestly, we've touched on a lot of them here, and… A lot of these questions… Have come up in… the planning group as well, and it is… I think your staff and the city staff has been kind of on top of being able to answer most of the questions we have. I think that there's… I don't even know if this is pertinent to the City Council discussion, but, I do… Like, as we've been discussing, the borders of what the downtown is. I like that there's been flexibility in talking about, like, what we include in there. with the stipulation that, those other regions can still annex in at a later date. So there's… there's a starting point.

[90:02] And if this proves successful, and especially if we have those, like, short-term, short-term wins. if, like, Alpine Balsam wants to annex in at some point, you know, that, there's opportunity for that, or, with some of the other development that I know that City Council is concerned with, you know, that this isn't… it doesn't have to stay this way for the 30 years. We can re-approach this as there's more interest or opportunity to bring other things into the fold, or… That's the first time I've… I've been to several of these meetings. That's the first time I've heard that. That's really an interesting addition. Yeah, there's the opportunity to, instead of including actual physical properties, the boundary would just flag full up the right-of-way, up to Alpine Balsam, and then it gives the adjacent properties the opportunity to annex in.

[91:00] how granular can that be? Can that be, like, the ideal market, but not the… the… Noodles and Company? It can be individual processes. I don't… I live in South Boulder, it's all just… That's actually what Denver is doing. So they, had their established DDA just around Union Station. And a couple years ago, they went back, and since there are now parts of downtown Denver that are really struggling, they brought in the entire public right-of-way and are now allowing individual properties to annex in on a case-by-case basis. So, while Denver is, you know, it's… that is, I would say, the exception and not the rule, there is precedent for it, so… this is such a wild, crazy idea, but what's the limitation of Boulder? Could we take the right-of-way to South Boulder? It's fairly clear that this is intended for a city's central business district. Yeah. So…

[92:07] You know, you don't wanna… abuse it and get challenged, right? But, yeah, the statute is fairly clear about focusing on… So that's not gonna happen. I'm sorry. I was thinking of more like Blue Line of Pen car. Reclaim the building. That's not a bad idea. If I can add something, just, like, relative to all this, if this does go forward, and… All these discussions, I think, are worth paying attention and asking questions about, because ultimately. It's gonna have to be sold to anybody that's not paying attention to it. And if… you know, not just the people in the DDA planning group, not just this, but the… your neighboring businesses, property owners, and things like that, I think, you know, if I'm remembering how you guys talked about it, every property owner gets, like, one vote. If you're a business owner, you get one vote. You know, it's like…

[93:14] We've kind of got burned. So I live in South Boulder, I own my building in downtown, and I own a business. I get 3 boats. That's what… so, like… Yeah, each enti… each voting entity, like, gets one vote, and we have to, sell this if this is something that's important for all of us to succeed. We're hyper-focused on this area, you know, so, like, we're probably going to be paying attention more. And I will… on the electoral section, it's… it's only the people who are within the boundaries, right? So… So South Boulder can't be, like. We don't want the DDA… We're not thinking the South Boulder Rec Center, we're not going to do this then either. No, it's just the DDA area. It's within the boundaries of the DDAs. How does that work with, like… this is maybe granular, but I live in South Boulder, but my…

[94:10] I own a building, and I get to vote? Yes, yes. But how… the question I've had for a while is residents in the boundaries. How many… have we done any sort of examination of that? Of course we have. The kitchen has quite a few residents, in addition to commercial properties. So obviously, any of those that fall within the existing caged boundary would also be falling within the DBA. So their levy would be… the same. it won't change. Correct. Depending on if they're in the expanse to the bid. That is correct. Well, the bid only puts mill levy against businesses, not residential. These are good things… yeah, that's a good one. That's a good delineation, is the bid does not assess mill levies against… So the bid doesn't do it towards the residents, but under the DDA, they would? Correct. So the residents will…

[95:02] get scooped up to have this additional mill levy. That is correct. In the bid area. I think my… the point… Paying to CAGET? They do. Yeah, so that if… Yeah, so any… Folks in Cage, it would… it's kind of what Carrie was talking about. There is a difference between the bid and Cage. So bid is bigger, right? Yes. And so businesses in the bid already pay it. But the residents. Well, the businesses within the bid already pay the bid portion of the mill levy, not the Cajun portion of the mill levy. Wow. So people within Cajun pay both the bid and Cajun. People within the bid only pay the bid. If the DDA were to form, people in the bid outside of KJID would pay the bid plus the DDA. So people in… people in the bid, but not in Cajun, property taxes would go up. People within Cajun… Are we doing a race bid? Melody, then? No. So theirs would actually be… Well, here. Well, yes. Well, the bid, Terry, the bid… the levy's, like, one and a half, two, I think it's somewhere around there.

[96:01] Because what the current… I think that's about what the current validity is for the business. It's a little higher. Hope to help. It's… I don't have it right. When we go to draw final boundaries, I mean, that's… that's why… needs to have a really good justification for including, like, a residential or mixed-use property, right? You have to… start thinking then about what your total electors are, and what… how many you think you need to clear in order to get to that 50% threshold. That's something we do… we'll be working really closely with the planning group on. They'll have the best advice on that. Knowing the city eventually has to take a backseat. But we're prepared to help support PUMAs as well. You know, what is your list of electors? What is the number you think you need to get to? What is the communication strategy? How do you start socializing this? In a non-wonky way. That's so hard sometimes. So, Elliot, the mill rate right now is 3.8. Oh, okay. Okay.

[97:05] So, people within the business improvement districts, but not within cages, would go from basically 8 or 9 to 8.15s. Those are your categories. Yeah, that's interesting. I mean, comparable to Junction, they're not paying 15s. But yeah, so that's the delineation between who's actually voting and who's impacted. Is there anything else that you guys wanted to get from commissioners, before we start turning back to the agenda? Any other questions you have for us, or anything you want us to try to keep in mind, or… Yeah, I think your feedback's been great. I think, you know, if there's any last pieces that you think are missing from this that haven't already been said, or, any final words of advice, would be… would be helpful otherwise.

[98:08] Everything has been really helpful. I've been remiss to say, because I didn't want to talk too much, but going back to the… When we go from the overall overview chart of, like, the dark blue with the TIFF with the orange on the right. when we start getting into the other slides would show what just the TIF is? Yeah. again, I've seen it, and I imagine Council will have seen this, so this is probably moot for what we need for next week, but in a way, This slide is… that TIFF part of the previous, you know, the big chart, which I get, but on one hand, I wouldn't… I could almost see, like. you know, if this is a… I work in video and animation and stuff, I'd be like, okay, now we're gonna zoom into this part of it, just to…

[99:02] Really bring that to life, that still the base is growing, and continue the story that the base is growing still. And that's where I am kicking myself, now that I understand a little bit better your, the two slides that I sent that were toys. I can see how they fit, but they're so much similar to… you know, it's… in a way, I want to see how that relates to… I'm thinking of the base chart that has the dark blue with the TIFF with the orange. How does… almost like, how does this fit into that? That's the one thing I was like, how do I marry… those two slides that I said to Nix into the story. Yeah. That's why I was like… that's why I said to nix them, because I couldn't… see where they fit into the overall story, and I said it was noise. Maybe it is important, because when, Reagan, you started getting to the next slide about the first question and stuff, I was like, okay, I'm starting to get it, but it is really deep stuff.

[100:02] So that's maybe my final thought, is, like, how to make these charts talk to each other? Or, like, where do they fit? Like, this is that little bit, you know, is this… is this… is the mill levy… I know it isn't, but is it that little granular base tax revenue growth? No, it isn't, but is it? I don't know. It's a good point, and I think… We were… we were struggling with, like. TIF is something that cities do, but this city hasn't done. And so, it, like, we've had to revisit that several times to just explain what the heck it is, and why it's powerful and important in this conversation, but also just what it is again. But I can see that being different from what you're talking about, which is also helpful of, like, what is the picture for what a DDA would… like, what are the total sources for a DDA? Yeah. And what is the scale? kind of in our 1% model, and a more aggressive model. Because even as you say this, I'm just, like, coming back to this, I was like, well, maybe this,

[101:09] the melody part, the two slides I said to get rid of, are actually just a subset of the… the TIF part. But if it's, like, just this tiny little bit at the bottom, you know, I just don't know where those two slides I said to get rid of fit in all of this. Yeah, we can take that back. But I don't know if it's important, and if it's such a minimal amount that it's, like, pennies on the dollar, like, just ignore it. Yeah. Just goes back to the storytelling, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that is what I, you know, I'm in marketing, I tell stories every day, and I work with my clients to tell They're very deductible stories. Yeah, it's very helpful. Thank you, Amanda. Thanks. I've learned a lot.

[102:00] Well, Ted, do you want to move on to matters from Commissioners? Sure, if others were amenable, I guess matters from commissioners could come up next. Dakota, I actually see you here, and I'm going to take privilege of being the chair at UCAMC to say, do you have any updates from the Hill Merchants Association for us? Yes, thanks for asking, I do. The Hill Boulder Merchants Association has been participating in the planning committee for the PEA. As I've mentioned earlier, we're really excited about the possibility for the reasons, I mentioned, just a chance to be Get some efficiency, more funding, just hopefully bring some long-term stability. to all the support that the Merchants Association could use. I'm enjoying it. We've been advocating and, you know, really trying to make sure that It's not just sort of a downtown grab, that we have.

[103:01] Our voices and names. Not only just… mentioned, but listed in the presentation to City Council, so they're fully aware that it's not… it is a partnership, this new DNA district, And we're included, and, you know, we'll make sure that we have a spot on the governing body, and things like that. So we're excited, and it seems like it's been well received, and I have no reason to believe that the Hill won't be a part of it. The Hill is also… we're just starting a new, partnership with Branded Beat, a marketing group. They are based out of Longmont, but they've worked with their downtown, DBA. And they… Come to us with a super approachable marketing narrative that fits. our budget for the past few years. So it won't be an additional cost to us, but I think it's gonna really bring

[104:04] A new level of… visibility to our social media and website and storytelling, and I think there's some exciting possibility to offer sort of mini branding shoots to the businesses that the Hill Boulder will be able to sell, with a small markup over what we're being charged from Brandy Beat, so we're hopefully gonna be able to get a little revenue into the Hill Boulder from this. That's the major, news and excitement. Cool, yeah, thank you. Yeah, no, and we, again, thank you guys for your support. Do you need funding and trust in us and the work we're doing. Excellent. And also, yeah. Would love to hear if there's something specific or not so specific. the Merchants Association can do to help support the vision of UKMC.

[105:06] Anyone have any questions for Dakota? Thank you. Thank you. For DMC? Any… Commissioner, comments? I've been getting a good amount of feedback about the Ambassador Program, and I know that this affects us all. And I'm… I'm sorry I haven't, like, looked into this much, but is there a place for the public to see And what the ambassadors do, like, the… you know, we've seen the… we've seen all the charts of all the points of contact and things like that, and… Is that all, like, quickly available on the city's website, or… It's actually on our website, the Downtown Boulder website. We just got their annual report that we're going to put on them. Okay. But yes. Downtown Boulder's website as well, shares… It leads up to it. …our, our fortune. Okay, great.

[106:07] And… I guess the other… the other part of that is, like, what is… what does the accountability… look like on… on the Ambassador Program? Like, how… I don't know, how are we able to, like, follow up or see that, like, something was… was dealt with? Like, we kind of see, like, some pictures here and there of, like, graffiti being cleaned up, or somebody speaking to somebody on the street, but, Is there… Yeah, a place to see, like, this was the result of… Of what was, like… if, like, somebody from the public, request something from the ambassadors? Is there, like, a… this was requested on…

[107:00] This date, and it was completed on this date. Yes, so there's, they keep daily logs where they track everything, and I do take pictures. I just want to make a clear delineation between the Inquire Boulder, some of the stuff that's outside of the purview of what the ambassadors can actually maintain, and then what Inquirer Boulder is set up for through the city, but they can absolutely be held accountable, through our partnership with the city, and also, see you in the work we're doing in University Hill. Our team oversees the Block by Block program, and we are working closely with the city to show the work more transparent when we move forward. Just to kind of lead off of that, we did do a pulse survey last week that we're going to start doing on a regular basis to get more feedback on a lot of different initiatives, and one of them was an overall feel for the clean and safe

[108:00] Downtown, so based on a 5-point rating, The response was a 3.6 star, and then, Over 54% said that everyone feels like the ambassadors are maintaining a generally clean environment with 21% as a mixed or inconsistent, so we're really kind of trying to dig in on, those specific areas and see where the ambassador improvement could lie. But I wanted to point out that, the ambassador team is relatively small. Yeah. On any given day, there's only 2 to 3 ambassadors covering the entire district, so… but happy to answer any more specific questions on the Ambassador Program for both, downtown and what I can help with answer on the Hill as well. I mean, overall, I think it's been a great program and success, but I think just as I'm talking to people, you know, people will ask me questions about it, and I don't always know where to… where to direct. We would welcome direct… feel free to direct them to us, and we're happy to share information. Great. Thank you for asking.

[109:08] Was this in relation to Kevin Lucena? Not this. Not just yet, but that is definitely… that was, like, part of it, but this is just, like, I'm walking on Pearl Street every day, and… Octave. hundreds of business owners, workers, and they… a lot of people are not even aware that the Ambassador Program is, like, doing, like, what they're doing. What are these blue shirts? And, Yeah, I've tried to fill them in on that side of things, but if they want more information about, like, what precisely… Absolutely. Yeah. Right. Yeah, and I know the ambassadors passed out those, like, postcard things, but they… and they also put them in like, the awards luncheon packet, and then Melanie gave me a welcome to… so, sometimes I'm like. Do you not know, or did you not work on her?

[110:03] Right. So, and I mean, even as a block captain, I can try to make sure everybody's aware of it as well, but something I've been talking to Terry about and talking to the officers about is I feel like we keep getting the same complaints about these issues that, like, we… there is nothing we can do. Like, so, like, Kevin's picture of the homeless man… on the bench, I'm like, he's a human being who is allowed to, like, lean on the bench. And so sometimes I feel like I want… I've asked the officers a couple times, can you make a list of all these things everyone's complaining about, and then a list of all the reasons that they're… like, my dad will be like, and then the next day, they just let the shoplifter back on the mall, and I'm like, for the 19th time. there's nothing that they can do about that, so it's frustrating, but these are not the people you need to be talking to about this. So, like. I feel like we kind of are just, like, going in these circles of people wanting these, like, miracle fixes.

[111:05] And, like, as a woman who walks the bridge home, I wish I could tell you I was scared, but I'm not, so… Right. This town's gonna have to show up a little scarier than that to keep me from… You know, I'm just, like, I'm just still waiting. for someone to scare me, and I'm like, we don't get on here, so… If you know anyone, you know? Absolutely. Just saying. I mean, that… I think you, Erica, and… Doing these pulse surveys on a more regular basis, trying to make sure we address some of the louder voices that are bringing up points is kind of what we're trying to move forward, just to make sure A lot of the work is done behind the scenes, and we're not always out front, but we see the value of kind of presenting in a more open manner of all of the work that is being done. And I think there's always some truth in critiques, and I think we've been working very closely with downtown Boulder to look at the area seriously where we can improve.

[112:06] I, you know, I think the Ambassador Program's come a long way, and it's something that wasn't here and was desperately needed. And some of our long conversation on the PEA, I think, imagines, like, how can we even… what does it look like to even have a higher level of service? And so, you know, I think it's always helpful to just hear the direct feedback. Pulse surveys can help, but also if there… there are broader issues, like, we just need to know that they're out there, and if there isn't a good answer, then We'll share that, but if it's something that's missing, we also want to know that, so we can report it and make sure it's being addressed. Right. I mean, the last thing for this commissioner is, if I don't get renewed, this will be my last meeting, too. So, it was great working with Stephanie, and I'm so glad she's moved on. I hope to work with you guys again. We'll see you on Thursday.

[113:00] I mean, you have a built, so… We're not done yet. Well, not yet, but in, like, 5 minutes here. My future is also very uncertain. Let me put it out there, too. Whoever's watching. I'm ready, so do it again. Do I hear a motion for the floor to occur? Before we do that, just a reminder, the upcoming meetings, for this next month are the monthly, bi-monthly check-in for myself and Danica Powell. Danica, I hope you're watching, because I… you better show up. She's up and planning right now. Yeah. Well, I'm gonna march up there and make sure this… last time, it was… it was spotty at best. Our next commission meeting is going to be May 5th, and the next DMC meeting will be the 12th, and maybe, Don, you'll be there. Who knows? I'll see. All right.

[114:04] He'll be there, just another nudes. I second that. Great. All right. We're adjourned. Thank you all. Thank you. Thank you.