January 13, 2026 — Downtown Management Commission Regular Meeting

Transcript

Captions from City of Boulder YouTube recording.

[0:07] So we're here, Do you want the Secretary to do the roll call now? I know you're doing 13 things right now. I got my group now. Welcome to the Downtown Management Commission meeting. It is January 13th, 2026, and I will call roll. Are you muted? Sorry, very big on here. Oh, you're muted up there, but maybe the room has audio. Yeah, looks like the room does have audio. See if anyone notices. Watches it. All right. Erica Dahl? Present. Justin Calvin? Present. Indy Nathan is not here. Don Poe? Here. And Stephanie Trees will be joining us virtually at 4.30. All right, I will turn the meeting over to Chair Poe for procedural items. We have meeting minutes. Do I hear a motion to approve?

[1:03] Why should you approve? I'll second. Okay. And… recruitment updates, I was just mentioning someone reached out to me, about inquiring. She's watched many of our meetings, and… she would be solid. I don't know if there's other people applying, but one person did reach out to me. Sounds like Stephanie will allow her tenure to expire. I'm considering reapplying. Anyone else been talking to anyone, or any staff enrollings of recruitment? We had a recruitment event last Monday. I talked to a few people, didn't seem… like, a lot of them are good candidates, they didn't live or work in the area, but they were definitely interested. We are receiving applications through January 23rd, and John Morris has been reviewing the applications as they come in. So, January 23rd is the deadline.

[2:04] Oh, I've got 10 days. always get the word out for ourselves, too. public participation? Is there any members of the public? See here… oh! We do not have any members of the public. Great. Consent agenda, we will move on unless there's any questions. And we do have… one of our deputy, officers. So, they usually speak towards the beginning of our commission meeting. So… Yes. You can turn it over. But I might go through a consent agenda first, and then… Okay, perfect, thank you. I had a simple ques… two simple questions. Outdoor dining pilot program, it says that, they're planning for the next phase of the permanent program. The pilot program set to end in October 2027, so…

[3:04] yes, there we're going to continue it is my big picture question. Most likely, yeah, and so that program now formally lives with Planning and Development Services, given that CV dissolved. And so that team will conduct the review of the program, and most likely move forward with a permanent program, bringing recommendations to Council. Cool. We just love to be kept up to date as to, like, if major changes, or they're gonna dissolve it, or… Whatever. Cool. The other second question I have, and I see that it's… we're talking about it on the matters from staff, or it's Sundance, but Council did approve 319? I did. So, we're just being more informed at this point. You got it. Cool. Anything else on concept agenda? Moving ahead, if we… It's not on the agenda, but do we want to have the officer… Yes. …chry in?

[4:06] Barry, if you'd like to unmute and give any updates. Yeah. Thank you very much. I'm not used to Zoom, so it takes me a minute to find the button. Some updates for y'all real quick. As you know, Sergeant Scavel left as the mall sergeant last… middle of last year. We had a temporary sergeant that was… that was in that role. For 6 months, and then we had a new sergeant, Vinnie Gallarani, who just started on, January 5th as our new mall sergeant, and… he's a… he comes to that position as our senior sergeant for the entire department, and he's been around a long time, assistant commander on the SWAT team. Really, really a strong leader that I think you're gonna be very happy with downtown, and I think he's gonna bring a lot to the team that's down there. We did lose, Jill Mahoney from the team. She ended up moving to Idaho.

[5:05] with our partner, and and getting a job up at a police department in Idaho. So, we do have an opening right now in the downtown mall team, but we are, right now, we're down a number of positions. We're hoping to fill that as soon as possible, but it is probably going to take us a few months to get some people through training so that we can get some additional officers on the streets that will allow for us to move somebody over to that role. So, bear with us as we do that, and that will get us back up to full strength. What you probably saw, and hopefully you did see, in December was we've, over the last 2 years. We've had, an increased patrol at the beginning of our Watch 2 shift, usually between noon and 2 p.m, and then at the end of our Watch 1 shift, between 4 and 6 p.m. during the holiday season, where we have, two officers that are working, overtime assignments, just simply being proactive, getting downtown, getting… covering 29th Street, Pearl Street, over and over again, not assigned to any calls for service. Their job is to be high visibility, getting down there, and really trying to, have a significant presence.

[6:17] in and around our main retail areas around those two corridors. And we've found over the last few years that that's been pretty successful. In looking at the data that I've got for December 15th through January 12th, it looks like, We are down in overall thefts, by, let's see, 68%. We were at… 112th last year at this time. And this year, we are at 36 for overall thefts and larcenies. Our theft for motor vehicles dropped from 5 down to 1. Our motor vehicle thefts dropped down to 1, our burglaries dropped down to 3, so that's all good news. On the bad news side of things. On the violent side, robberies were up, by 1. Simple assaults doubled. They were up at 16.

[7:08] And so it's kind of interesting how that, that stuff has changed. When you look at our data for, Our overall, patrols down there. around the mall area, our patrols are up by 61% for that same time frame. Our traffic stops are up slightly as well, so we're seeing a good proactive uptick, which is what we're looking for and we expected with those extra patrols in that area. We may see a little bit of a drop. I'm hoping not. We've got our, we've got some additional officers working Watch 1 over the first two months here, so I'm hoping that we don't see too much of a drop with losing that one person from, from the mall unit, but hopefully we'll get that filled here shortly. Any questions? Who is?

[8:01] Oh, the one question I had was the… I didn't get the name of the new officer who's overseeing downtown the. His name is Vinnie Gallarani. Is he gonna be doing, kind of like, is the concept the same? He's going to be going store to store, and kind of getting to be known, and… Yes, nothing's going to change in terms of what his the expectations are for him and his roles and responsibilities. He's going to be, expected to be out on foot, really getting engaged with the, with the community down there. You should be seeing him at the DPP, getting involved in those meetings as well. So he should be, like Sergeant Scable was, we expect that he's going to be, that, that main connection. With the police department for all of our businesses and our community members downtown. And then with the salts, are they… Can you talk to us more about that? Is it kind of like the homeless population against the home… or is. Yeah, yeah, it's… a lot of them are… are unhoused, assaulting, simple assaults, so getting in fights with other unhoused people in and around the downtown area. And, and unfortunately, when you look at our data, and… and what we use as our data point, as our… as our boundary for,

[9:16] what we call 3M. I'm sure you guys have… y'all have heard that. It's… it encompasses, Civic Park, the library, Central Park. It also extends up to 1440 Pine, just… not quite to 1440 Pine, almost there, but, So, a lot of the stuff that we've been seeing over the last month has been related to issues down around the library area, Central Park, and unfortunately, on the north side of downtown is 1440 Pine, and we have seen a pretty significant uptick in calls in and around 1440 Pine, some that have been pretty serious, you know, there was a A pretty large police presence down there, over the weekend.

[10:04] With a potential weapons call, which turned out to be partially unfounded, but we… that's… that, I think, is also leading to some… some issues on that north side, where we have our perimeter actually goes to the, butts up right to, the alley just north of Spruce Street. That's a very long answer for you. What is 1440… is 1440 pine a… what is that? It's a, it's a housing facility for, young adults that are re-acclimating into the community. It's, young adults that have had, Run-ins with the law, and are, being, housed in a, facility where they… there are counselors available, and there's, there's involvement from different services.

[11:01] Got it. Understand. Any others? Anything else? Thank you for your time. Thank you. You're welcome. Appreciate you joining us. Yep, take care. Next to the Downtown Boulder Partnership is… Tammy… She RCP'd yesterday, but I haven't heard from her today, so I'm not sure. Okay, I didn't know she was on. Yeah, I don't see her online either. Okay, then. Tammy, what was her last name? Door. Door. Welcome, Tammy Doerr. Well, speeding right along them matters for staff. EDA? So I'm happy to provide an update on that. We're hosting a couple information sessions coming up. They're open to the public, but we're really targeting our outreach efforts to those who would be directly impacted by this effort, so property owners, business owners, residents, community partners, that may play a role in the study area.

[12:14] I think I've mentioned this before, and happy to pull up a map if it's helpful, but we're looking at a study area that includes Cajet, downtown, going south along Broadway, capturing Euget, the University Hill General Improvement District, as well as, going north along Broadway, and potentially capturing the Alpine Balsam area, future Western City campus. This is very much still in the works, and still… How far east would it go? It would go, here, let me… I think it would go from… Study area ends at Folsom. Folsom to 9th Street, I believe. That follows, Boom. Yep.

[13:01] But the info sessions, they are being held on January 22nd and 23rd. It's a Thursday and Friday. We'll have multiple time options throughout the day to accommodate different schedules. You all should have received some information. Melissa, I believe that you sent, the info session registration email to commissioners. I'm sorry, I sent it to you. I may have just sent it to you, CAMC, and not followed them, so I'll make sure to send… We'll make sure to send that to you all. I saw it through the DBP, you know, so I'm going… Okay, great, yeah. Please, please attend if you can, share your input, and share with your network. The purpose of them is to really be educational, so to explain what a DDA is, what it's not, share best practices from other communities, why they're used, and then we'll also present some community-informed themes from past plans and engagements that a DDA could potentially focus on, and so it'll really give folks something to react to.

[14:04] So those are coming up, and Melissa and I will be sure to share the info with you if you haven't received it already. At the same time, we are continuing to work with Puma on, kind of, the technical work, so that includes, like I mentioned, defining the boundaries. Analyzing the financials, so looking at the tax increment financing projections, looking at would we use a mill levy? How would this impact our existing GIDs? We're really, kind of deepen the analysis work right now. We're reviewing legal requirements, governance options. And so those findings will be brought to the planning group, that Calvin, you sit… you sit on the planning group for the DDA. Those will be brought to the planning group during the February meeting. The one on Thursday. The one on Thursday is going to be more focused on these themes that we're going to be sharing during the info sessions, and then the February meeting will be more, focused on the financials and legal.

[15:12] requirements, to get a DDA stood up. And so thereafter, we will bring that to DMC in March to get your… to get your input. We're scheduled to go to City Council on March 12th for a study session, and we're still targeting a November ballot initiative of this year. So I'll pause there, but in summary, the intent is to come back to you all in early March, with a lot more details on what this could look like before going to Council on March 12th. Are you… Any input from you, Kyle? It'll be interesting to see how it all shakes out, because a lot of the, how could this play out?

[16:01] The potential of a lot of things has caused a lot of questions and concerns from the people on the Planning board, but… I don't know, it's an exciting process, and I think… It's just kind of waiting to see how all the details shake out, but… not a whole lot to report yet. What kind of… it's like, are they nervous about how… is there pushback, or is it more like, oh, there's so many things that it can… In particular, it seems like a lot of people are maybe concerned about, Being included in the DDA area, but not necessarily receiving the benefit of the DDA, particularly for the stuff going… Yeah, particularly the stuff going north on the Broadway towards the Alpine Falls, but, like… Again, everything is kind of preliminary and being studied right now. See how many businesses would be affected by that. What…

[17:02] Potential benefits that can be sold. what can be brought to them, I guess, out that way, and… How much impact maybe the, the new campus north, like, going north might affect a lot of this as well. Bringing business down that way, and bringing people down that way, etc. It isn't any new tax, though, it just changes the way the tax is used, right? It doesn't have… Like, isn't mill levy, where, like, there could be… there's potential to have an additional tax on Pearl Street? Which, like, I'm adamantly against. I mean, like, I don't think we need another reason to make people shop online, but that's something that, like, I'm interested in, is, like, what benefit does that extra tax bring me other than incentivizing people to, like. just… once you see it on a receipt, you're like, I didn't know I had to pay to shop there. So, yeah, it is…

[18:07] increasing taxes on top of other increasing taxes. And, yeah, and just to… tag on to that. These are all things that we are taking very seriously into consideration. The appealing thing about a DEA is that it does utilize TIF, tax increment financing, which is not an additional tax. It captures future increases in property tax revenue. And reinvest it back into the district. But to Erica's point, if we were to apply a mill levy… So it can do both? It can do both. Or it can do either or. But this is part of the conversation that we're having with Pruma, and some of the financial analysis we're doing is, you know, how would the existing… how would this impact the existing GIDs? Would it replace them? So these are… these are all… Yeah, one of the things that the planning group, I think, has already kind of indicated, is probably similarly not much of a pallet for additional property tax downtown on top of everything else. And so, one of the things, and I don't want to…

[19:13] try and guess the resolution on this, but I… my sense is, is that we're kind of leaning towards more of a 1-4, like, replacing the existing GID mill levy, the Cajun mill levy, with a mill levy, a similar mill levy. So, ideally, for downtown, it would be, you know, not… Net neutral. Net neutral, and yet you kind of have access to this other funding mechanism that could provide more investment. you know, that's balanced against kind of the feedback you hear from DOP. Is that something that, ultimately, downtown businesses, residents, property owners support, knowing that you'd have to ask any expansion of the boundaries from the existing pageant whether or not they'd support a new mill levy. Because it'd be new for them. Yeah.

[20:00] Or expanded for the case of, Eugene. So, you know, those are… those are the key policy issues that Council will have to weigh, and, you know, you all have an important role in working on that. Yeah, I concur. Having property tax in downtown Boulder is slow-crushing right now. It's really bad. Is that the wrap-up of DEA? Yeah, so more to come in March for you all. Excited to hear more. Thanks, Cal, for going to those meetings. How many are there? my belt at the end, too, and about once a month, or every month. combining UCAMC and DMC meeting in March. Yeah, not quite, over the DBA conversation yet. So, you mentioned the mill levy conversation. I, you know, I think there is, you know, so much relationship between, KJID and… and… thing proposed for a DEA. Certainly, the planning group will have a big role in proposing, hey, this is what a DEA could do, this is something we should or should not pursue under what circumstances. I think for DMC and for KJID,

[21:13] that relationship between the two, and what does the GID look like if the DDA improved is another kind of key element of that. And so, we're going to really start, as Regan mentioned, getting into some of those key issues as we get into March. I don't think Council will be ready to make final decisions on those, but I think we're prepared to present some options for ways that a DEA and the GIDs could be structured, and so I think it would be helpful to get some feedback from this brief, you all have representation on the planning group, but I think having the discussion as a board will be helpful for offering. We've had a similar conversation last week that you can't see. It's a very similar conversation. Certainly, there's differences in the implications for UGID and KJIT, but I think, you know, overall, we'd like to present the information together and have

[22:05] a discussion. I think it's great that as we're considering the DDA, both commissions have kind of come together to say it would be great to have a more unified downtown Hill, and so we think it'd be a nice discussion to have earlier in March, if we waited for the DMC meeting, kind of butt right up against that council meeting where we're planning to have that policy discussion. So, the proposal would be, if you all are available, to pack on to the you can't see time, which is currently scheduled the week prior, first week of March, on a Tuesday. That at least one UCAMC commissioner requested for that meeting to start a half hour later at 4.30. So that is the ask. If not that time, we could pull and find other times in that first two weeks of March period. But if you're open to it, we think it would be a great use of time to get both DMC and the TMC in the same room, offer a presentation, an update on where we're at, and pose some of the policy issues that will be, coming to Council.

[23:10] Because the 10th is kind of too late, is what I heard you say. It's possible, it's just we wouldn't have… we wouldn't have the ability to include any feedback in a memo, so we'd just have to do it verbally to Council. Which would be fine, but, it'd be nice to have the extra turnaround time. Melissa, could you send us an invite to that? Okay. I don't love the third, but I understand it's hard to make everyone else sit to schedule stuff. So… so be it. If you can't make it, we could certainly… Yeah, or you could also send… Yeah, I'll send out an email we could share. Cool, I'll… Sure, I have no plans. I know what I can do. Don't freeze. Yeah, I mean, it's not the end of the world if it's the 10th, so maybe…

[24:03] Melissa… But then you, Camsey, maybe you can't do that date. I get the idea of putting us on… They could do… had a little… they had flexibility for there as well, so I think, really, the best option might be, let's pencil the third. And knowing that it might not be the best, but maybe if you could send out a couple other options to staff and do, like, a polling to see what other availability is? I think that would probably be our best approach now. Child care at that date is challenging for me. Yes, absolutely. Yeah, and I think the 10th might be a good runner-up, but just to Mark's point, that it just doesn't allow us to have that kind of formal response from commissioners to council Which doesn't mean there's no response, it just means the formality of what… how it gets transferred. you can come to the council meeting, too, then, and just make sure we actually say what you want. I know, I always wonder about that sometimes. Like, where does all these thoughts go? Yeah, the memos and the letters that we have commissioners draft, those go directly to Council, so that's included in their meeting packets.

[25:09] And then communications, we obviously do the best we can to ensure we interpret what we heard from the commissioners, but… It's not verbatim, I would say. you know, just re-enact the two-hour meeting. We thought about interpretive dancing. Civil War code. I heard some colder's really good at it, so we might pour then. Is there a chance BMC and UCAMC would go away, kind of, as whatever over the DBA? It depends on the structure of the deal, right? There would still be a DDA board, though, and the DDA board is actually much larger than the current commissions. So there's… I believe it's… Minimum of… Is it 13, or 12, or… I think it's 7 to 11. 7 to 11, okay. 6-7? Yeah, the models are different. These are the things that we're currently studying, that PUMA's helping, but there are models where the DEA manages the GIDs, so that's one avenue. Right. There are models where the city continues to kind of retain a GID. Maybe the scope is

[26:21] more narrow, there's a relationship between the DDA and the GID, that's certainly a possibility. I think in any scenario, we'd have to kind of Figure out the right way to… to… change the existing scope of KJID and UGID, and so that's also kind of parallel legal research going on. What does that take? Is that… Does that have to go to elect groups within GID, or is that something else? It only makes sense that you're going to, like, definitely fill it all the time. Yeah, same thing, right? Yeah. Right. And the bid is obviously another partner that we have to consider downtown as well. Yep. So there's multiple entities So, trying to figure out all of the different options. So as soon as I reapply, do I die. A leadership role in a very important time. Yes, absolutely. Yeah, I mean, from, from a,

[27:13] the language for the ballot has not been drafted, but the intent is a 1-1-2027 start date for the DDA. So the General Improvement District. regardless of how the DDA will 100% be operating until 1231-2026. To Mark's point, it could be operating well into the future, too. It's just kind of trying to weigh all of the different options and what they mean for each entity's A lot. Chuck, right? Moving on, we do have Tammy in. Amy, you're here! Generally, we have an update from Downtown Boulder Partnership, if you'd like to chime in. Hi, everyone! It's good to,

[28:02] connect. I was outside the building to join you, I wasn't sure of the exact protocol, but… It was locked. So, I'm in my car. I moved to my car. Here I am. But I'm not driving. So it's all… It shouldn't be locked. We have time if you'd like to come inside. It'll be easier. Why don't you just come on in? Are you in this parking lot? I am in the, side door down there. I'll try again. We'll come and get you. Thanks, you guys! I'll see you in a moment. We'll be right back. Let me go. How many people are in the meetings you've been going to, Cal? 40? I don't know about that many. 15 to 20.

[29:00] Property owners, business owners, community partners. It's a good mix. The planning board? The planning group, I think what it's called. There is a planning board. There is a planning board, I don't worry. Is there a planning board commission? There's the planning board, which is, like, the board and commission. Just like this, but… Yes. Okay, I think that's true. I think there's a bit more competition to get on that board. I know. The planning board. I honestly have no idea. No, I think you're right. We have more fun. We have way more fun.

[30:00] Reimbursement. We're not just yet, but this many people. We'll, we'll stick down to matters from Commissioners of the Public Art Project. And I'm just gonna say, I'm not gonna worry about it until I get back on the board. So, kind of… Amazing. Hi, Karen. We got a name tag for you. Thank you. Hi, everyone. But, so, we have Cami Dore here, she's out inside her camera, let's view, but with the Downtown Boulder Partnership, and thank you for joining. So you know, kind of, what we do, and… What… why you're here? I do. Okay. Thank you for having me. I know, since this is my first meeting here, my understanding is you generally get a few updates about what's happening downtown, so I'll try to stay in line with what your normal expectation is.

[31:00] I want to highlight a couple different things. I know we just wrapped up this conversation about the DDA. I would say the general mood in downtown is optimistic about this potential tool being added. As we all know, it's how it's crafted in the final form, and we're working very hard to make sure that downtown property owners, stakeholders, businesses. We'll understand the tool, and are, informed about what the options are, and what's possible. We're really hoping that we continue to think really big about the possibilities. I've worked on a lot of DDAs, and the ones that are most successful certainly come from, having a really big, good vision as we move forward. I do want to commend the city on these public information sessions. It's been a great way for us to feed people into this process, and my experience is a lot of people don't know what a DDA is yet, and that point about capturing the TIF and keeping it in the district is really powerful when people understand it. So we're very actively working on that. The second thing I just want to highlight relates to

[32:12] Safety and the perception of safety. We feel very good about, the leadership that we're experiencing, the collaboration with the police department, and I… I wanna… there's a lot of great communication, constant coordination, monitoring, and adapting to what needs might be. I do think it's really important that we find a way to help, the broader community and really engage the broader community for those who haven't been downtown for a while, to really activate them and bring them back. And whatever reasons, they may have not been down for a while, how do we address perceptions of safety? And so that's something we're continuing to explore as well, especially for people who haven't been down for a long time.

[33:01] Certainly, we are continuing to have discussions around what happens with power outages and how our businesses respond in a resilient manner. we… we did work very closely with the city around advocacy with Excel to try to keep as much open as possible. There were things that happened with Excel and the power grid that we couldn't control, like, they weren't predictable, I should say. And that certainly brought opportunities alight about how we can address in the future. So we're all working very closely, the Chamber, the Dental Boulder Partnership, as well as, the city to really explore and support business going forward. That's a very big deal. Finally, I just want to highlight that we… we do need to continue to actively seek a strategy to address, vacancies, especially second floor vacancies, office vacancies, a macro issue that everybody's dealing with in downtown and every city right now, but it is a game changer. If we can crack that code,

[34:08] we will absolutely beat up. Pretty much every other city's doing the same thing. So if you have the answer, we will agree. But that's, definitely a highlight for us, with our city partners, chamber partners, and hosts to try to get really innovative and creative about those uses. Are there ideas? I think that there are a few things floating around, else talk interim and pop-up ideas. There's always, you know, when there's vacant space, it always reverts back to the arts. I mean, it just does seem like in cities. if we have vacant space, let's activate it with our… or with our artist. And that is a great interim activation, get people into this space in some way, shape, or form. But I do think that this requires an overall very strong messaging about you know, if you are going to be back in the office, if you do… if you are starting to transition back in the office, or exploring office space, how does Boulder stand out? I mean, not just on top, but…

[35:08] across the board, as the place that you would want to do it. And I think the amenities of this community can really be leveraged to say, if you are going to come back in the office, why do we stand out? And I think we really have to capture an inventory of that, about what makes it very different, because We're not going to battle the trend about whether or not people are coming back in the office. We need to capture the ones that are. And playoff builder's innovation and technology entrepreneurial startup vibe, and leverage it in a way that nobody else is. So, those are broad statements, but you can kind of do what I would call urban acupuncture on it. You don't need to solve the whole thing, you just kind of solve it bit by bit by bits.

[36:01] Do you have an answer? Anybody have a solution? Well, I mean, Rebecca from Ozo and I were talking after our awards nominations meeting, and a lot of business owners feel pretty adamant about, and we've talked about this before, about if someone's offering you a fair deal, that, like, these landlords need to stop sitting on vacant properties. if someone's offering them a fair deal, I mean, I would be really curious to know relative to the rest of the country, how we stand as far as rates, and I'm gonna guess it's very high up here. So I think it sort of becomes this thing of, like, I mean. my landlord, the entire upstairs has been vacant. It used to be Commerce. They've been vacant for 3 years now. He just bought the other building next door. Obviously, he thinks it's a great financial decision to keep owning spaces that the upstairs is not rented. And I'm gonna guess he gets a really big tax break, so I guess I'm curious to know more on, like. just how we stand with places that are… I mean, I'd rather see somebody in at a reduced rate than nobody in, but if they're all just sitting there and they have enough money to just sit there and wait.

[37:09] I mean, that's why North Face left, like, I mean, I'm across the street, but when they left, they told me that their rent was raised $5,000. It's like, they're just finding a smaller space down the street, and now they're leaving a really big space that I don't know if anyone's ever looked at that listing, but you gotta read a little bit further down to find out you gotta rent the upstairs and the downstairs. So I guess I'm just curious… what… I mean, I'm not saying we, like, punish them, but it just doesn't seem… Well, conversely, like… last year, I have a property downtown, I've been… we have parking, we have a beautiful building. Right. And I've had, like, a couple, like, two, three nibbles all year, and… I can't make it any cheaper because of the property tax. Right. And… you know, not Tibo or whatever, who has, like, just money to burn, and

[38:00] Not that anyone does, but I can't make it any lower, and I've had no offers. Right. I think that there are a handful of things that really relate to that. Number one, and it doesn't apply to all property owners, but, loan covenants often can dictate what you can rent your space for. So. In some cases, if you can't show that you're renting the space for the amount that is in your covenant, you… I would default on my loan. You would default on your loan. So, that's a core tenant… Yeah. Tenant, tenant, of, you know, just… property ownership. The second thing I'd say is that, you know, right, wrong, or indifferent, that's the beauty of owning real estate, right? You control your property, you make the decision about your own property, about when and how and what you'll do in terms of leasing, and you bear the risk, right? You bear the risk in the tough times, you, reap the benefits in the hard times. And you make the decisions in between as to how you're going to survive. So, I think that…

[39:02] And I know I've heard this before, mentions about how do we force, filling vacancies, but the reality is, is all these properties are still paying all their taxes. Their property taxes don't change. They're… they're still paying their taxes. So, What we want out of their building is the activation it brings to a community, and the vibrancy. So, in that light, and as you haven't had many bites, it is somewhat where public-private partnerships come together, develop strategies, try new things, innovate, and just try to do academic development in terms of strategic efforts and projects and programs, and you keep trying till you hit it. One of the messagings I saw just recently from the DDP, I think it was the DPP, was, like, boulders mall is a downtown campus in and of itself, and I thought that was brilliant, I loved it, and maybe, you know, there's Boulder Startup Week, but are there more kinds, you know, we've…

[40:05] we've partnered with DBP on, like, doing kind of fun events, and soccers and roller skatings and stuff, but can we maybe do something that's maybe more business-focused to have, like. in a, you know, the BCBR, Builder County Business Report, has the IQ Awards and stuff like that. Is there something we can do for, like, kind of like in the way that Apple, their campus, they put the bathrooms in the center, so everyone has to walk by each other to get to the bathrooms, and then you have the… you have the interesting conversations as you walk around, is there something we can do kind of more on the networking side, just so that there's always some way to, like. So what you're saying is we should find a new location for the bathrooms? No, I… You know, I think you're actually on to something there. How do you position brand message about that being an epicenter of, of a campus. And yes, we've used that, I think others use that often as well. That kind of goes back to my earlier point about leveraging features and benefits that may be unique to this environment. So how do you offset the macro trend that we're experiencing across the country in the workforce.

[41:12] And then add and build on what a campus would provide, so that when somebody's leasing space. we're selling something bigger than just that space. Some of this is going to work itself out. I'm actually confident we may not return to the exact way we worked pre-pandemic, but I actually feel like we're going to see a significant change in what I would, you know, putting humans in the room. Right? Putting humans back together, and I think you're already seeing a shift on some of that with companies, and the more they do it. The more we'll start seeing some change, but it is going to take… Very proactive effort to create, innovate, and try some new approaches. Look, nobody's got this right yet. One other idea I had was,

[42:04] You know, you have to be, like, a citizen of Boulder to get into the rec centers at a cheap pass, or a cheaper rate, or so can we offer some sort of, like. rec center pass. If you locate… If, you know, that's all come through, you know, kind of, kind of in the case we have Eco Passes, can we do… Yeah. I… thank you for that. I think these are exactly the kind of things where you just kind of keep building upon what a benefit is to locating your company, and also just showing up. Look, we have… there are spaces that are rented that appear very vacant, because perhaps the… And team members aren't… using the space, even if it's leased. What we want is at least… You need the activation of the people. What we want as a community are the people. Yeah, because I've rented my space myself, and we come in once a month. Yeah, do you like screenshot?

[43:00] Okay, so, yeah. Yeah. Maybe, maybe we get… There's been times that cities and communities have launched really pro-business policies that were so unique. that they opened gates for people to come in. Not very often, because there's always risk to be the first to create such policy. But the ones that have done it have gotten a big rush at. And maybe the things they've done aren't the choices that we would make here in Boulder, but I think it is indicative that the bigger and bolder and stronger we think about the Policies that could really say, no, no, no, we really want your business here. And you're gonna get… a policy environment, and a business environment that is unmatched anywhere else. So what is that? Because that's how we create jobs, that's how we fund

[44:00] our public sector, that's how we fund our nonprofits, so we create wealth for people. I'm telling you something you, of course, already know, but… What is that big idea? A lot of cities spend a lot of time Solving the policy issues, the bigger moves come when we craft and drive and create our own tools for our own new things that haven't been touched before. Am I sharing your email back to us? Sure. You ready? It's Tammy, T-A-L-I. at Downtown Boulder. dot org. Okay. Well, thanks for joining us tonight. It's a pleasure, thank you all, I really appreciate having me. I really appreciate working with you, and… That's no problem. Thanks, everybody. Yeah, feel free to stay or go. For the next 5 years. She's not even getting her to do, like, you'd be like, Timmy, don't leave.

[45:06] We're moving on to the Sundance contract. Yeah, I'm happy that I've got a few slides, so… Hi, Stephanie! Quickly… Plus, I just sent you a request to share slides. Brand, so let's see… So, I'll tee this up a little bit, just appreciate, a little bit of, grace, in kind of how this is being brought to you. Don, you alluded to it at the beginning, just… It's not typical that we're bringing something that is fully baked now back to you after it's been done. This is a unique, situation where, the Sundance, the contract between the City of Boulder and the Sundance Institute

[46:18] Is really the culmination of what has been a year-long bid process. to try to attract the film festival here. Obviously, that is successful, but, with that, in order to kind of get to the finish line. We've had months of negotiations with the Institute on the parameters of the contract, and that contract was based off of what we and all of our partners, Downtown Boulder Partnership, the Chamber, Visit Boulder, the State of Colorado, and others, submitted as a part of the Whole Pit package, and so… we… we were in a position, really, where we couldn't take, kind of, elements of it, and our package, the City Builders package, is one element of the entire bid package, and, you know, go and have, kind of, separate conversations about, is this

[47:09] part of our agreement, or part of our bid, good, bad, or otherwise, because we didn't want to jeopardize, kind of, the whole… the contract as a whole. So we kept those negotiations confidential with, with the Institute. once we got to kind of a final agreement, that is what we brought up to Council last week. So that's why you didn't have a chance to see it in pieces, there was also the urgency piece, as these things go, back and forth between lawyers. It took longer than we thought, and all of a sudden, we're here at the beginning of 2026, and really needed to execute the contract so we could get to the work of getting ready for the 2027. Sundance Film Festival. So that's the context, just in terms of, acknowledging that, and maybe just to address Mark, you know, just so the other commissioners know, I emailed Mark and a few other people, on… and City Council, and saying, like.

[48:07] Because it all got spurred when one of the TV stations reached out to me directly and said. Commissioner Poe, do you have anything to say about this? And I was like. what are you even talking about? And so, I did not reply to the news stations, but I replied to staff and to council, saying. we don't know what's going on! And, what's going on? Because… because some of that does impact us, when you look through the details here, and that's what we're going to talk about, but, like, the office space, the parking spots. is directly, 100% wording. And we even learned at the marketing community, there's, like, very specific wording that you… you can't be, like, Sundance, like, it's very specific if you're doing any kind of… has to be, like, approved, or they have to… they have, like, a list of things you can… so it's like, I don't want to say anything. Yeah, but so, like, as the DMC, though, we do have direct oversight over some of the things that are in this, and that's why I was like.

[49:05] what the leap is going on, we don't know what's going on, and so that's why Mark is talking about, kind of, this preamplifier. Yeah, and all that's fair, and apologies that you were put in that position, but hopefully we can… provide the information, at least as far as that's in the… in the contract, and then I think, you know, there are some other kind of elements of preparing that… that we can mention as well. Continue, sorry to… All good, no, appreciate the additional context. So I'll just go through the basics here. Apologies if some of this is, kind of, 101, but… Always good to start with what was talking about, in planning for the Sundance Film Festival, and how that eventually, led to this contract and Resolution 319. That is the resolution number that Council ultimately approved last week, which implicates Gauged, and I'll get into the details of that briefly.

[50:03] So, we're excited, this is a good thing. Now we're in the throes of planning, for, the festival, but, we do is an 11-day festival. That will, start in January 2027. We are, waiting for, kind of, final dates, but we anticipate that to be in that late January window, as it currently sits. In not that long, a couple weeks, we'll have the last, Sundance Film Festival in, Utah, and then we'll be housed in 2027. About… we anticipate about 90,000 attendings in the first year that can fluctuate. We've been anticipating a little bit more than average, just given the newness of it being in Boulder. There are multiple venues, festival areas across the city. We do not have a final list of sites. I think some of our, kind of, major theaters, you could anticipate as being some of those areas in Maine.

[51:02] Focuses on the festival. Pearl Street certainly will be, one of those areas, if not kind of the epicenter of the festival, just kind of a natural fit. But we're still finalizing exactly what the festival footprint will look like, but there will be impact across the entire city. And obviously just the major national, international institutions during the time. That's a snapshot from 2020 attendance, that is pre-COVID, just a new timeline, so it gives you a sense of what we're anticipating for resident versus non-resident attendance. A lot of, we anticipate a lot of front-range attendance of the festival. And to give you perspective, it is a big number. We hopefully have that economic impact across the whole duration of the festival. This is to say we're used to handling large crowds and large events in the city. We don't anticipate all 90,000 in one day, that's over the course of the festival.

[52:09] That kind of… Peak one-day attendance in that more 35,000-40,000. range, which will be, you know, comparable more to, you know, a bit less than a football game or something like that. But we certainly have been thinking since we began developing components of the bid about transportation and lodging, safety, and all of those components, which are well underway in terms of planning for 2027. And, you know, not, insignificant is the, the community, and economic impact. There are some numbers that the state has produced already, that project an over $2 billion statewide economic impact over 10 years. Some of the justification for some of the large state incentives, that was reported on through the process.

[53:03] this is a… comes at a really good time of year for the city. As you all know, we don't have a lot going on at the end of January, early February, in terms of attracting major, kind of, hotel days and All that kind of stuff. So we hope that's a really good, positive, that impact really spills off to, other sectors, of our economy, restaurants, retailers, others. And just a little more… so there would be a couple main, theaters. There… there could be up to 24 venues across the city that, will have some type of event. It's not just film screenings, obviously that's the main component of the film festival, but there are talks and panels that you'll see throughout the community. And what you'll also see within festival areas is something called, activations. Activations, from major, film festival sponsors that will, you know, have a presence within, buildings, and then also some of those are kind of external, could be external build-outs. The one I'm familiar with

[54:17] last year is Acura had a whole, kind of, built, structure in a parking lot that they used to have their whole, kind of, thing going on, where you can attend their talks and activities. So you have the film festival talks, you know, the film festival screenings, and then you have the main, film festival sponsors also have, presence, and activities going on throughout the duration of the festival. I have a question. Yeah. Do you know… Like, when do you think you'll know who's… like, is Acura coming… like, do they want to come to Boulder and do that kind of thing? Or, I mean, I would think… Like, at the year mark… You have an idea, like, do you…

[55:00] Yeah, my understanding, we'll be honest, is much closer to the bid process, less close to the implementation, but my understanding is that after this year's festival is really when, you know, the Institute will start nailing down. That's correct. And so, yeah, I don't have a ton of details. I do know that there have been visits and discussions with sponsors in Boulder already, and so they're, the main sponsors are kind of thinking about that. I don't know their deadline to kind of commit Okay. Yeah. And it's just Boulder. Like, all the… official events are just Boulder City? It's a good question. So, I don't know if they have made a final determination of that. I think the Institute's hope is that there is some… some benefit to having access to the region and having some… some auxiliary events, as there is some language in the contract that I think it's the primary activities of the festival being stable.

[56:09] Okay, so… A second life for that theater, R, and Lewis Feldman's dying. Sure, it's already been… I'm afraid that's already been. A fate of that is already hands the university. All right, so the contract itself, so, you know, I think, good, bad, or otherwise, we had to, establish a contract with, Sundance Institute. The good news about that is it sets us for 10 years, so, if we have that commitment in place, we hope that this is a many decades, commitment here, but we are definitely signed up for the next 10. In that overall contract with the Institute, we have, some joint expectations. I mentioned, Sundance's expectations of being able to commit to, Boulder being the primary center of activity, which is great. And it also memorializes… most of the contract memorializes the components of the bid package that we've committed to as an organization, as a city.

[57:09] In order to get the festival here in the first place. And so, some of those things, and I can expand on these, but for your information, transportation, one, access to multimodal transportation, huge element, four. the film festivals being able to have, you know, a circulator that can get folks easily from venue to venue. So, you know, the hop is something that we already have in place, and so it's making sure that that's tweaked so that it is going to those major venues, those types of commitments. We have, in terms of implementation, working with our regional partners, with our state partners on, regional transportation access to and from the airport, to and from downtown, Denver will be really important. Lodging is a huge component of this. We anticipate that all of our hotel rooms will be spoken for, and so one of the commitments that we made was to create what we call the Homes for Sundance program, where we created a separate festival

[58:12] Short-term rental license to allow homeowners to rent out their spaces a little bit easier than, the current, normal short-term rental license, for the duration of the festival. They have to get inspected, I'm just curious. I don't remember off the top of my head. I think it is a… an attestation instead of a special. Okay. If I remember correctly, but I'd have to… It's like, you know, most of the city of Boulder now, you have to, like… Yep. Just, like, would be nice if everyone had a smoke detector, that means. Yeah, actually, I didn't ever inspect it in the time. Yeah. Yeah, I'd have to double check, but it might be that we reserve the right to inspect, but yeah, I'm not sure. So that is a part of the contract, our commitment to create that program, obviously, that's happening.

[59:05] Hank us up on that, but hopeful that will create some more lodging opportunities. Activation, so this gets at some of the festival areas, the festival footprint overall, what happens within those use areas, trying to, you know, ultimately make sure that, we don't have folks kind of ambushing or taking advantage of The film festival presence and making sure that those are associated with the festival. So we don't define those use areas, those haven't been defined quite yet, but we talk about how we'll manage those use areas. Again, I don't think I'm stepping out of turn to assume that at least a chunk of Earl Street Mall will be a part of those activations. Staff support, so we offered a ton of in-kind support, across many different areas, how we make sure that, we are good partners in making sure the film festival is successful.

[60:04] And then we had a whole bunch of other, incentives. Again, it was a competitive bid process. There… I think you all probably followed the news, closely. We had… we were competing against many, many other cities. Were we? I don't know, I think it was always us. It was always us. I'd like to think we were always the favorite. Certainly other cities in the process were, publicizing, putting their financial resources behind that. You know, we absolutely, kind of, as a collaborative, had to Put together, an economic incentive package that was competitive, and it's from the state all the way down to us here at the local level. So those incentives are a part of that contract. You'll see things like fee waivers, for… for permits, the use and application of renewable energy credits, and some of our financial incentives. I will say, on the financial incentive piece, we were… we were very cautious to not, commit, not get in over our skis, not to commit to revenue knowing our financial environment.

[61:13] That we didn't anticipate generating because the festival itself here, right? And so, you know, those are things like, sales tax, accommodations tax, parking. We ultimately did not propose, sales tax sharing, so that's, not a part of the incentive package. We did propose, revenue sharing and accommodations tax, so… from the baseline of, I think it would be likely this year's baseline. then some portion of whatever we're generating in accommodations tax with the festival, knowing we wouldn't be receiving that revenue, but for them being here. And same thing on parking, knowing that Typically low utilization in that period of time, late January, early February. So how do we structure something, where we're, we're sharing in that revenue stream?

[62:08] So that gets at, how, Cajid comes into this. Some of our commitments made during that bid process implicated KJID assets, the two being the commercial space at $1,500 Pearl, and then the parking revenues I mentioned. So, in our bid, package, we, we discussed, oops, we discussed, offering some type of city-owned space, knowing that they would have a year-round presence here in the city, which is great and exciting. And we, you know, it took us a while to kind of locate exactly, based on their needs, what would be the best space. That happened to coincide with us shifting some of our organizational stuff around ultimately had space at 1500 Pearl in the 300 and 301 suites, which are the west side of the building on the third floor, and that smaller central space.

[63:07] Kind of like where we walk through to get to them. That's right. And where we met, right? It's a great space. It's a cool space. I love it. And so, those are the two spaces that… that are a part of the lease. the way that it is structured is a one-year lease with automatic renewals, and I think that was partially just recognizing that they are still in flux of how many staff, you know, how big their presence will be annually, but for now, I anticipate that will work very well for them. And so that's one piece of it, and then the second is the revenue, sharing. So… we do anticipate great command for parking in the downtown, really across the city, but especially in the downtown. And the way we design this commitment is of up to 1,000 parking spaces. We assigned a value to that, and then said we would share revenue up to

[64:04] A half a million dollars annually based on, the revenue coming in. We'll say that there's a policy component of this that we'll have to work on with you during the year, and just the parking management element of that. We do not have currently cement parking rates, and so we'll have to think about the best way to manage parking within the downtown. But overall, we anticipate generating revenue that we're currently not generating right now within Cajun, and we would share that amount up to $500,000 a year, assuming we would generate, that difference from what we generate in a pre-built festival environment. So those are the two main commitments that were within, Resolution 319, and the reason they had to do that is that Council was acting as the Board of Directors on behalf of Cajun instead of asking Council, and those were the two commitments that, fit under that criteria.

[65:03] So that's really the end of the presentation. I'm happy to answer questions that you have. Coming out of order to you. Do they get 1,000 parking spaces, like, that are dedicated to them, but then they paid for them? Or… We're still working with them on exactly how. You know, we've… Ultimately, they could say. we just want access to the revenue that's acceptable under the contract. If they decide they'd rather have access to the spaces in some educated format, then I think we'd work with them on that, but I think it was too early to make that decision on, kind of, which path, if that makes sense. If I read my insight and tight. Didn't get a chance to… this is a long thing to read. But they could also, like, hold events there, you know, they could use them as parking spaces, they could use it for the Acura thing, if Acura wanted to hit them up for it, or…

[66:05] Sure. You know, it's kind of like, they have… If they were using a big open lot, they could put anything… they could put a tent on there, a whole… Yeah, that's possible, you know, within the garages, if I remember correctly. You have the garages, but, like, there are open marks. Yeah, that could be. Yeah. Cool, just because, like, that's… it doesn't have to be parking, is kind of what I mean. Right. with the… using the Suite 300, I didn't know if they needed more space, if that would end up… you know, in a way, for… the income that the DMC oversees and the budgets we oversee, you know, that's kind of even trade for us. That's not like… Right, a change, you know, income-wise. But if they, like you said, they needed more space, or whatever, because the city's offering this. what if they wanted, like, a storefront or more space? What would happen at that point, should…

[67:03] and they started then taking over, like, a lease spot that we were getting income from, but they… they get it for free then, and so we lose that income. But, you know, again, we're robbing Peter to pay Paul a little bit for all this stuff, but I just… Talk to me about, like, if they needed more space from the city. Yeah. It's a fair question. I… they… they have not indicated an interest in storefront space. I don't know if that would change, over the years. They have talked about, The seasonality of, kind of, really staffing up, during the course of the festival and needing some access to space. We frankly talked to them about this building, and just, you know, could we find space for our employees during 11 days while they need, you know, to have more of a kind of… Because I mean, even before the 11 days, they need to train everyone on how to do this crap, and so it's 11 days, but then they need the 20 days before it. That's right. I think we've heard, you know, 3 weeks is kind of their main kind of presence within, within town. So, yeah, I think

[68:07] It's the seasonal staffing, we've heard, perhaps looking at 302 in the longer term, so the eastern part of that third floor space. It's possible, but they have not kind of indicated a need for that today. So I think that's another reason why these are the one-year terms. Certainly, if it implicates kind of changing the, the release structure with any of our existing tenants, I mean, we would proceed very cautiously with things. Yeah, that was kind of my concern, of, like, not pushing out. Yeah. you know, kind of the same thing we've heard about with Park City, being that people have ghost towns, because they rent this space for a month and make them… we already have that problem, you know, with ghost… And we were very clear in the process, too, that we did not want to, you know, have… have, They can store it for, for 11 months of the year.

[69:02] On the next page, it had, like. 3-year fiscal impact for, like, what it is for 25 and 26, because there's nothing yet. And then for 27, when it actually starts to be, it was TBD. And I'm sure, like. Not DVD, there's been… someone's been writing something on the napkin trying to figure out what some of that is. You're right. I don't have those numbers off the top of my head, but I tend to say that our, our projections and the accommodations tax, our projections in The parking revenue was based off assumptions of kind of having full parking demand during most of the festival, assumptions that we would be, you know, not 100% occupancy. The hotel was at 99.5% occupancy, and Comparing that to our current occupancy levels, so… We did some of that analysis, you know, we could always change rates, and we don't know exactly, kind of, how pricing will go in hotels over time. I know that Visit Boulder's done some work in trying to manage that, those rate increases, but yeah, I mean, we've made some assumptions to get to… Are hotels, do they have free reign of whatever they want to charge? Okay.

[70:14] I thought that was the whole reason they, like, were moving… part of the reason they were moving here is just got… everyone got so priced out. Yeah, it was one of their driving factors. I believe Invisible just talked about this publicly, that As a part of their work in the bid process was getting, hotels, locally on the same page about a pricing structure, for the festival. And so my understanding is that most of the hotels, hotel rooms will be managed under kind of one pricing structure. So that, I think, will be a huge help in trying to keep handle on pricing. What I heard in a public meeting was that… Hotels had to commit, like, a certain percentage.

[71:01] to be at this fixed rate, and then there was a percentage then. They could do the audit, was the implication. So I don't know, I remember what that percentage was, but there was, like. they had a bunch that they had to keep at a fixed rate, and then they… there's maybe some… Right, yeah. Yeah, people that, yeah, that makes sense. $20,000 a night for those people. When I was looking at the parking garages, and we're gonna give up to 1,000 parking spots, it just made me wonder, how many spots are in the… does DMC oversee totals? What's, like, that actual number? somebody has a number off the top of my… so, 1500 pearls, like, 620, so… Right around it. Yeah. We got the 5 garages plus a surface lot, so it's roughly 2,000 feet or tape. So half of our spots. I think it's a little… a little higher, higher than that. Yeah, that's a very, very rough estimate. Assuming… maybe, because if that was 600, and we have…

[72:02] It's one of our largest garages, and then we have Spruce, which probably has about 550, and then there's some weird oddballs with the Trinity Garage, St. Julain has a handful. I could probably find you the exact number, but it's just less than half. I was wondering the ballpark. It's… yeah. you know, do we have 1,100 spots, or do we have… Right. That's probably get us 40 to 50% of the spots. One question I did have that was, again, directly related to what we've been doing with the gateless systems, and the expenses we incur for… With that third party for just doing the license plate scanning and all that. you know, that is an expense to us. And so, is it just turned off during that period of time, or how… you know, we're still incurring that expense, potentially, and so that's maybe was, like, I was just wondering about the expense side of that dataless system.

[73:06] Yes, there… there will… there will have to be some solution there. We… we have… that's a part of our implementation process, is to work with our vendor to kind of figure out how that's controlled. Because on one hand, I was wondering, like, with that shared revenue up to $500,000 annually, I didn't know if that was gross or net. Because if we could take expenses out of that and then share it, versus, like, off the top. I like that. Yeah, that's fair. I'd have to have a legal way in on that, but logically, that makes sense to me, that we would be… Well, legal and logic. I'm married to an attorney. They have nothing to do with each other. So that was maybe one… I didn't tell her that. I can't anymore. I know Teresa well, but… That was maybe one of the inputs that I would have. If the…

[74:03] fine-tuning of the negotiations going on. Yeah, that's a fair point, and I'll take that back to the team as they look to implement with our vendor, and figure out what that arrangement's going to be. Oh, I'm sorry to talk so much, did you? No, most of my concerns are outside of our… Our bubble. But particularly with residential impact. First of all. It's for another place, I think. Is your… is the sundown excited? I think the sundown's excited as business, but… I think… I think… there's potential for a lot of people getting pushed out of Boulder even further than they already are. Because of impacts here, and hoping that the city or county Put some safeguards in place for corporations buying residences and single-family homes.

[75:03] Things like that. But, again, outside of DMC. Do you have any things you wanted to ask? Well, it'll be very interesting. Are you excited for your business? Yeah. Yeah, I think, as long as I can… we get here, you know, like… It isn't, like, back to… I mean, because I think a lot of people will have to stay outside of Boulder. So I might have to, like, backroads. But yeah. I mean, it comes at a really crappy time, so it's really great. Like, so many events all in the summer. Slow time. Slow time, so it's not a crappy time, it's a good time. Yeah, so I think it'll be really great to just, like, have a booth in the doldrums of winter. And it just, like, puts us on the map, you know? And I would imagine that's a huge incentive for other businesses to also want to, like, relocate here. I mean, it's just gonna be a hub.

[76:03] And, like, the odds of bumping into someone from Sundance. rubbing shoulders so that, you know… Get on the Tom Cruise ca- list. Yeah, exactly. Two real quick small things, well, not small, but two quick things. Stephanie, I'm sorry. I'm sorry, go ahead. Just, on the… on the residential piece, here are you, and something we're thinking about. The Institute is also very concerned about that. One thing that, I know City Council is interested in is exploring residential vacancy tax. That could help deter some of the, kind of. buying of other homes. It's only one tool, but it is something we're thinking about. Also, some of the regulations to help put some parameters around the Homes for Sundance program as well, so we are working on some of that stuff. And then, you mentioned earlier about just, you know, kind of how to do business with Sundance here, and what kind of the rules of the road are.

[77:01] City will be producing some of that, but I think once the… once the dust settles a bit on the 26th Festival, we're looking forward to partnering with Not Double the Partnership and Sundance on, some of that kind of messaging and town halls and that kind of thing, just to… just to help everybody make sure that they're ready and… and feel like it's going to be They kind of know how they can participate and succeed during the festival, so look for activities related to that as well. Stephanie, I'm sorry I didn't go through your list to… did you have anything you wanted to ask or say? Nope. That was pretty comprehensive. Thanks, Mark. Cool. Thank you. Appreciate it. Thanks. Anything else for matters from staff? That's not on the list? Okay. Matters from Commissioner's Bullock Art Project, I talked about. Unless I get put back on the board, I'm not going to bother with this, because I don't have time to, like, deal with it before I'm booted. But is there any other thing the Commissioners had in mind that you wanted to talk about?

[78:11] We're ahead of schedule for once, so… Great. We have our upcoming meeting. Melissa, you will kind of do a little quiz as to what date works, but we have the third penciled in. Tammy, thank you for joining us. Thank you. I'd love to meet with you and just kind of get to know you a little bit, and share a couple more ideas and stuff. Do I hear a motion from the floor? Thank you to adjourn. Second, None, thank you, everyone.