March 15, 2023 — Downtown Management Commission Retreat

Transcript

Captions from City of Boulder YouTube recording.

[2:26] Thanks. Okay. welcome to the downtown Management Commission Retreat. It is Tuesday, March fourteenth, 2,023 I will call role Susan Newsam. Here. Stephanie. Trees here, and Justin Calvin. that currently here. probably expecting him to arrive. and I will turn the meeting over to our chair for procedural items. Right. So this is the special meeting, but we have some secure items we need to go through first, because first, we're going to cover kind of like our normal meeting that we would normally have at this time, and then we will go move into the retreat aspect.

[3:12] So first on our special meeting is the procedure items of recruitment of the January 23 min and okay, good and move approval of them. Does anyone Second, that second. they are through. If we then move into public participation. There's no public here. It lesson, I guess. One of hey for the public that it's nice to represent the public. Let me know I can answer for you. Us. Is there anyone on mine? They said. Can you check and see if there's anybody showing up online

[4:09] great? So the consent. Agenda topics will not be discussed unless there are questions posed by the Commission. Did Susan and Stephanie? Did you have a chance to review that? Was there anything in the consent agenda you wanted to discuss or had questions about visiting it real quick? I don't think so. Not for me. Yeah. Oftentimes I poke on something. But this time I had nothing really to note, really, either. Yeah. what about that electronic signage refresh? Is that moving forward? Okay. I think my my question about Lane for you about the mobile card

[5:02] Are they seen as not not competing, potentially competing, and they they serve the same food, or similar to the 2 blue cards. Oh, you the yeah. One of them is Colombian, and the other one is a rape. Us who they describe themselves as Caribbean, I believe. Yeah. Okay. But similar similar, right? You're not sure. Okay. Possibly you know, and that they probably is dumpling card. It's in the mix as Well, so. and they'll be at 12, and basically they're on will be in front of the Ben and Jerry's. With that previously the sunglass cart was located. Chris Norris, who was for a long time operated our hat cart, actually purchased sunglass cart from the previous owner, and he co-locates them in the 1,300 block, so that opened up the space in front of Ben and Jerry's. And then the second one will be basically outside of the kind of the glass elevator entrance

[6:10] to the Crystal center. We're avanti is currently that has been long bacon. I used to be at import business from Central America, but it. That's been vacant for over 3 years. Interesting. and then everyone else that was out there last year is going to Redo, but I think it actually closed down they switched out. So I thought that was interesting timing. Yeah. And my last question was. Is the Mobile Food card program just for the Mall? Or does it extend into It's. So we have a one. We have a code 4, 11 and Boulder revised code that is specifically for the 4 blocks, the prostream mall that does permit and allow for the mobile bending cards 13 in total.

[7:12] and they're strategically placed. Obviously the 1,300 block is higher concentration, because there is no retail on the north side where the county courthouse law is, and there is a specific code language that allows us in the University Hill area as well. We don't have as much luck getting up. It's just a here to it. Just has never been, have been the success, and and particularly in the summer, as we know it's kinda dessert the hill, and that's when the cards usually do. Well, certainly. Now. okay. And how many of the 13 spaces do we have? That will? Thanks. I've got. Are you sure they're off by I've got one vacancy that would be in front of what's capital? One cafe? Yeah, that's that was a jewelry card.

[8:03] Yeah, By having a license. Do they have to be down there a certain period of time, or can they kind of come and go? Do you have a the minimum requirement? The code falls out from May through September. They are told that, and you know, tracking is not a big deal, but they're told that they need to be out there at least 5 days a week for a minimum of 4 h, so in the peak season it calls out that they should be there 5 days and about 4 h. you know. Think about shave. I singlease your ice cream. They're not out. They're done by the end of September, and they're they don't come back until usually late. May so understandably. He wants frozen infections in the winter. you know. And then there's hardcore's like again, Chris with the hat. Cart, is It's out there almost every day down it's a freddie's hot dogs you can. He's quite, but quite the character. And by the local, if you want to know anything about this and goal, or you need to just go and sit down and chat with it perfect. And then

[9:06] our newest and award winning downtown Bulgar partnership gave serious moment to light. A great, you know, Newcomer award. They ended up buying facts, and he's hot dot card because they have not been able to operate it for 2 or 3 years. They might be the former owner. So sure he's bought that. But they haven't brought it back. Yet. They plan to hopefully this April of May. They're gonna have like a mobile card and a hot dot cart correct, and they're they're They're gonna operate, both of them. There's typically Cheery and Sanjay are pretty much there, so they feel it's run between the 2. But is there any outcome? Should a come, but not enough. Yeah, they're They're taking a license without their penalty. Not per se, so good example would be. One of the newer cards is the case of the in most case, ideas.

[10:02] They were coming out, and they were finding that after they brought all their product, and we're ready to roll, they just weren't finding any traction but where they do find traction is between 10 Pm. And 2 am. With that late night crowd. So they've learned that they're just at the tasting rooms around town for the afternoon to capture that clientele that's going to. you know Xyz tasting room, and then they'll hit the Mall late at night. I understand their model, you know, and we are. I i'm not enforcing the number of hours, or how long they're there. And then there's also there's the the Grill, the Pearl Street, the stand his license is actually that he can operate until 100'clock at night, because he used to be in front of the former old Chicago. and that was seen as competition. So what was that in mind, though? Could we with the licenses such that there's a day license and an evening license? So we have more opportunities for people who want like. If the ones I forgot the one that you're saying that does the night time One, you know. Could we

[11:09] get that daytime license to someone else. Is there a call? How much demand is there that's the I mean? You think about it. You're operating in all weather conditions. cold, scorching key. You don't get an umbrella. You don't get an air conditioner. You don't have restrooms. You're not even. They're not even allowed to put up their own trash or waste containers. So it's a pretty rough business, you know, on a on a day to day basis, so it previous to the pandemic we never had any turnover, those spots were really cherished. And then, of course, along comes this little issue. So this, then, the first time we've had a really aggressive go out there in market, so I don't to your point. It would probably obviously take a code change. But I these are the only 2 that even applied to be met in. So I said, yeah, great, I mean, yes, they're not competing with a riff and mortar like they might be too similar to each other, but they're also 2 blocks apart, Some 2 things in motion on here.

[12:12] The purpose of our mobile vendor cart per minute is first activations of space to create more vibrancy. And so we certainly have interest in making sure that folks have at least those spaces that they're out there activating this space. So one of the things that we do have on the work plan is is taking a deeper dive and making sure that. or we're doing that to the greatest extent possible. Another component is affordable commercial, and we'll talk more about that later retreat is these are incubator spaces, right? So people who are have immigrated to United States, and they have. They're really good at cooking a certain type of food that we don't have here, and they don't have a lot of capital behind them, but they want to share their goods. It's a great way to start, and so it's certainly part of the conversation on our plan is, how do we use the tools we have available to us, or how do we of all those tools to to be better incubators and better activators in space

[13:11] 2 this year and 2 previous year, our minority owned and operated as well. So yeah it out of our our goals. Yeah, great as long as since you have outdoor dining pilot program is part of that and really long name of the street Exploration Fountain streets is public space. Yes, how did the city think this street went? It went really well to who attended it. I thought it was. I mean. I don't recall ever seeing West Per Street, that active during the 2 years of the pandemic, hard to say, because there are a lot of things out in the street, but overall, I think the the

[14:05] given the weather, but the theme was appropriate but positive reviews. They're still collecting information from businesses, because what these said so this is one of our current, and this is later in the agenda, but one of our commercial activations that the city helped Fund through a half of dollars. Was this app right street best so really wanting to make sure that that it's not just getting people on the street. But it's also getting people into the ch of businesses and spending money to help the economic by Calorie in the space as well. We don't have those results yet. The downtown all the partnership did some of the Survey lead yesterday evening to this is from the West End to it. Not no, it was there. They just ran into it. Yeah. which was really remarkable, and that I was talking with someone of note who I would have expected to have known about it because I was at the

[15:02] St. Patrick's Day parade, and he didn't know what it was going on, and I was like of anyone who would know something. You would know that this is going on, and so I had thought it was fairly well. Yeah, but it was kind of that was the one step that I saw from the email that came out from the Dpp yesterday was that 52% of people just ran into it. The other thing was, I was at the same Metrics State Parade. After that you'd be finished. I saw people flooding into mountain sun. And there is this this bass exodus of people going down the Mall from the Saint Patrick's Day Parade doing stuff. So the same Patrick's right brought a lot of people I saw, and, like we went straight from that all the way down, and I can't tell if i'd followed one or 2 people. But there was like people who went from that to be that was pretty cool. See Camera reported 200 at the world. Sureness. I've got like with more than that. But yeah, one tool that we're looking into procuring is called Fixer AI chooses cell phone tracking data

[16:03] to see exactly where folks are going in different parts of of any area which is in the geographic area. The date is back to in 2,017. So once we have that tool, we'll be able to look specifically at the day and understand exactly how many folks did, what? So it will be really interesting once we have access to it. And hopefully, that's not too far away that maybe what feedback I could have seen is like more like there's nothing at the St. Patrick's day for him saying, hey, there's a a festival on the other end of the Mall. At on that nothing. There's no signs or anything that kind of advertised every street on the East End to kind of bundle. and I think that would have people were there to do. Stuff people were. you know. I ran into everybody from my parents, the Governor. So I think he was down in now. No, they were in town to see flogging, Molly. I just so happen to live in Boulder. So it was convenient for them. Well, maybe the last thing on us cuts an agenda is their recruitment update. I see there's one vacancy we have received. One application is that the type of person for the seat we have, because I believe we have a

[17:19] business seat open as a business person, and is has you to look at their application or just council. Well, in in past. I also have not wanted to do. It's just 1 one which I strongly. I think it is. and it's to have a full state, and you've been out for a year. Terrible! I'm. If we can strongly encourage council to do that again. So they did not have an interview, as far as I know of. So we will learn more on Thursday, because that's when they're pointing conditioners. I think it's Thursday.

[18:05] but if they didn't have an interview, it might be declining, but they are reopening applications again in May; so presumably, if they did not do an interview for the one. or include that person in hopes that there is more than one out of 10. Why do they not advance on that again? I mean, what sign it? There's no competition, right? But yeah, and i'm not sure who the application. Yes. it you. You can't find that on the website. It both. Well, the the interviews are on the website. I'm not necessarily commenting on the quality of the applicant just in one person? Did they assess the quality of the applicant, I think, and then to the client? Or did they decline? Because there's only one i'm not sure if it might be policy. I think they they established policy some time ago that if they don't have somebody to compare somebody to. They don't want to. They're not even considering it so. Which is unfortunate, because

[19:07] yeah, it feels a little disrespectful to this board, but they because the one person could be awesome so. and it's the only commission that we were successful in recruiting, for out of the 5 commissions that we work with is your it's commission. I imagine that. So i'm not clamoring. Yes. and this is I'd say. What I've heard is that we have some of the lowest number of evidence across the board this year, so it's not an issue that is unique to this particular commission, but it's. Still, I agree that it better if we have of more folks. And so we continue to, as we're talking with folks to let them know. And hopefully, we will get some.

[20:03] Okay, yeah. Can we request just that? And I know you could be on board with us, too, that they reconsider the one more than one applicant policy. especially okay at patients, are down across the board. So we're we can raise that issue with the I mean, there is an appropriate, because this is. This is the broader symptom of engagement with sports and commissions and getting books to volunteer. And so there has been a lot of work at an intern. But how do we improve upon that? And it's not just that. What? There's other. There's other things like 5 year terms, right? It's like that's a. Some folks might see that as as too much of a commitment, especially if they're yeah, they're here for school right. They're not there. There are reasons where they're They're hesitant to make a 5 year commitment to a volunteer position. So there are a lot of different things that have been looked at and assessed by Council. I'm not sure if that with the one applicant one is is one of them.

[21:17] but I can certainly bring it up with the Clicker's office and make sure that that's on the list. Yeah. And when i'm interviewing people, I use my my experience of interviews that I've ever done, not just who i'm applying for this round. I know what a project manager looks like, and what's a good one. A bad one. I don't care how many I interview. If I find a good one. i'm actually messaging the Clerk City first office right now, just to see if if we only receive one. If that person is automatically just disqualified. I just, you know, I just ask that simple question and see what we see what we get. Yeah. Still have that one position, and that's property. Representative seems very off quick. Thanks for applying. We're not going to interview you.

[22:05] It's going to turn them off future. So off removed for the consent agenda if we are done with. That was the concept agenda. So we did have some comments. I I I suggest we move on to fund financials not to be discussed unless there were specific questions. I had a question. Remember what I I was noticing the the differences it looked like between this year, and last year we're to the actual in the estimates. We're operating expenses and but not personnel. If that was interesting, what is in operating expenses is that yeah, a lot of it has to do with the eco-passes. So that has changed significantly over the years in terms of the monthly budgeted. And then the contract has come back lower. So you're saying a pretty big estimate change there. Other things that are in those operating

[23:12] a lot of the annual service agreements we have for some of the parking software within the garages, those types of things. So I I can go into more detail. But that's where you're seeing. The biggest deviation is the difference between what we've budgeted historically for the and then what the actual has come in, so that because it's an estimate you could you could see that drop again. The the eco-pasting is not something you pay for upfront right it's reconciled after the facts. Correct so all of our projections have been historically based on what we're anticipating the but with the pandemic ridership has gone down significantly, and our annual contract is based on the previous year's contract. So we don't. We don't find out until after the back. That's kind of uncertain.

[24:05] So we acknowledged that that's what we've been having this conversations with we know we have ecosystems, and so there are opportunities to to temporarily reinvest that because I don't know that our long term strategy is going to change about subsidizing passes for downtown employees to get them to take a transit and presumably hopefully over time. We're going to see that ridership turn to its previous levels. But in the meantime we have some budget savings that we can talk about as one time savings. So that's why we've been having these conversations. But okay, how do we want to temporarily redeploy these operational dollars to things that we would like to to do instead. And so that's why we invited Scott Sternberg, who is the Boulder Economic Council, because I wanted to hear from him about what it for a. For downtown workers. So it'll you know. So when you said like, hopefully, we return to free Covid Ridership by Don't. See that ever happening. Yeah, this rate with us, maybe just for the city employees, because but my wife had. I know why she has, for, like only come to work 2 days a week, so I don't see any bus ridership coming back. Well, I am more optimistic than you, Mr.

[25:24] I do. You see more people? No, I Well, when you is out it was like empty. and I was like, Wow, I'm like the only one on the Broadway Skip mine. and like I traffic times. And then I think it's primarily to you students that I see on it. and I think this is my first time in Boulder, like consistently writing the bus. and it feels i'm comparing it to where I used to live, San Francisco, where the buses were like packed, and you couldn't get a seed, and it was hectic, so I I don't know what it was like before. So it's like, I don't have comparison, except to say that it feels like.

[26:09] Yeah, I I I also. Yeah. I'd also do commercial spaces eventually could correct right. So so as footprints of existing businesses in downtown boulder for track and make space available for new business to come down to downtown, and it's a whole new demographic people that Don't live here right now that could be filling spaces that are currently under utilized, and so as commercial spaces and second floors correct, and whatever their more intense use is going to be in the future, then it's. Yeah. So yes, we might not see the existing businesses and operations return to the previous levels. But it doesn't mean that the commercial spaces that they once occupied are going to get reactivated with some of our uses. and so but that does take longer right. It's not. It's not the return of the all the same people who are writing Trans. Before it's the it's all the new people that there's opportunity for them to kind of build those

[27:05] not just the making spaces downtown. But that's coming Control care about the environment, but don't seem to take the bus, and they love their cars like. So we have this kind of interesting dynamic where people love to drive. They can play with a parking. We talk about this a lot, you know. You invested a lot in garages. and I I think, in general I don't feel like it's a bus culture. Whenever I tell people like, I take a bus or like what? What? Maybe because right now we're discussing the budget. Yeah, focus on this, so we can get to the other topics. Yeah, we came direct. I think the direction that i'm curious about, for like the future budget is like what goes into those estimates for the future like, what is it? And that's a separate topic. But what is it based on? Because I think I I think i'm curious if we can connect the dots between vitality and

[28:04] ridership and all of our other environmental goals, and that seems to be a big piece of it we pay for. So thank you for bringing us back. This is all very interesting, but let's i'm trying to keep us on. I've noticed that we can go along, so we are a little bit behind schedule. So the one last question I saw that the are we doing a lot of garage work this year, because the budget is 4 times last year and 10 times 2,019. Yes, and that is later in the agenda, but we can discuss that now. Let's move on, I think again. Try to keep on on target any other questions on the budget. Can you refresh. I remember the debt service I thought we retired on. This is the last year. Our Moody's rating is very high compared to some books that

[29:03] where is this fun being kept? So that's a good point. That is a good point. Matters from Staff, the curbside management. I know we have some people here all right. Do we have permissions? Do you need me to stop sharing my screen? Okay, Great. So am I, introduced Sam. Are you leading our or are you leaning out for Chris. I am tagging in for Chris Sidelin, principal planner. So please forgive me and be gentle on me. I'm just filling in here. But i'm here to introduce Carly. So I have some notes to read off on the project background. We're here this morning to provide an update on our progress in developing a comprehensive set of curbside management policies and practices for the City of Boulder.

[30:00] Over the past several months the team has completed the flexible loadings on pilots and assembled the components of what will make up the final deliverable for this effort. The curbside management implementation Guidebook. This skybook will serve as internal policy, and will outline for city staff the procedures for making proactive and reactive changes to the curve. Tonight we are looking for today. This morning we are looking for your feedback on the components of the Sky Book, which our team will present to details shortly. Ultimately, when we've returned towards the Commissions this summer we'll be asking you to advice City manager to use the guidebook to manage per side uses into the public right of way. This is because procedurally under the Brc. The authority to designate traffic operations and parking, including curbside uses, is granted to the city managers and delegated to the city traffic engineer. So Today we're checking in on our progress and developing the guidebook and saving your feedback at this stage.

[31:04] In this coordinate management effort, Staff is working on developing a set of practices to manage the allocation of curbside uses with the current being in physical charges side of the road or the sidewalk nearest to the curve. Well, why do we manage the curve? We need to manage the curve? Because the curve is a key transition point between travel modes. It connects you to your bus, your lift, your bike, and your car. It's a large public resource with a growing list of competing demands and implementing best curbside pack management practices can contribute to meeting city goals in terms of addressing city goals. Curbside management can contribute to improving safety by providing safe dedicated. Tnc. Pick up and drop off zones. That's your reducing travel, delay, and related emissions by reducing double parking and impacts on traffic. increasing multimodal access through, for example, providing on street micro mobility, parking

[32:12] and contributing to economic vitality by meeting the demands and changes in how commerce is conducted through flexible loading zones. Amps is part of, and supports a key suite of plans that touch upon each other here is working together with plans such as the Boulder Valley comprehensive plan, and the Tmp Harley see from fare and peers. Our consultant on the project will take thanks, Sam. So before I dive into the me and the recommendations of the curbside management plan. I set the tone and describe the project process what we use to inform the recommendations. So we did a really robust existing conditions, analysis, collecting quantitative and qualitative data. So on the quantitative side we use cord to collect an inventory of how is the curve used today? So a really efficient way to get that snapshot and that breakdown of every single per side space. And what's the breakdown of of that's face to parking to things like parkland?

[33:08] It's bus stops loading zones, etc. We also we're able to collect utilization, to understand what blocks are highly utilized, what blocks are under utilized and comparing that with marking data to think about the off street parking utilization as well, and how on street and off street parking can work together. We supported that with observation, so that snapshot of the existing data doesn't capture things like double parking near misses from a safety perspective ubers and lifts loading in the travel lane. So we had lots of boots on the ground to understand. How is the curve working in reality during different times a day, different days of week. And then we also did a really thorough view of the boulder Revised code to see where are their ordinances around curbside management that potentially need to be updated or where they're not ordinances around person management, where we need to add some. And then we talk to a number of different departments of city staff to understand what are the current processes for making changes to the curve with that? Whether that's a request from business, a number of crashes. How currently does that process works we can understand. Where is it working well? And where are there opportunities for improvement?

[34:15] So that snapshot in time? All of the existing conditions that we gathered from court showed unsurprisingly that most of the on street curb use is used for parking, so the series a little bit in the 3 Gids. But it is pretty consistent that at least 80% of the spaces for parking next is usually loading or parklets, and then a little bit for bus stops as well. So this just provided a sense of of Where is that space going? And as Sam mentioned it's really highly valued space front door to businesses. So so thinking about and talking to the community about how do we want to allocate that space? What should those pie charts look like so we're such a community through in-person virtual intercept events, social media, whole gamut of different ways and different kinds of touch points to make sure we're hearing from a broad broad spectrum of the public as well as business owners. So, in addition to the the broader public outreach where we went from the farmers market, we had an online webin that we drag and drop pins and lines. We also had it have a stakeholder group. So we 5 out of our 6 meetings with this group of access all that

[35:22] represents a a broad, the group of the population to understand folks who use the curve in all different ways and and making sure we're understanding the nuances and the processes behind the curb. And then we also have had focused conversations with folks like Uber Lyft folks like like Amazon, Fedex ups and bicycle advocates as well community cycles, folks with disabilities to talk about challenges and and equitable access to the curve. So this is really rounded out our understanding of how the curve is used, and how we can help improve the curve use in the 3 managed districts as well as city wide. So this is one of the responses of many from our survey. This is asking folks in the community how do you want to see the curve used in downtown. We ask the same question about University Hill and Vulner Junction, but you can see, for downtown, highest uses are a lot of activation. They're access for people more so than access for vehicles, which is in contrast to that pie chart where we saw that most of the pie chart was that blue for her vehicles. We're saying that people want the curb for license, scooters for ubers and lifts for crossings for pedestrians. So this was

[36:27] provided an interesting and a vision for us as as we can. Re-imagine those those pie charts of what the curves should look like they want more of everything. Yeah, yeah, I think there's disconnect between what people do people say in this area like? And you're an expert in the space. Yeah, for sure. And I've in not this outreach, but it's another outreach where there's an online component and an interest component. And what people tell me in person is different than when they're anonymous on line, like when they're talking to a human. They're afraid to. They They want more correcting. They say they want things for people, or they want things a little bit more on the equitable side than what's best for them. So that's that's definitely true, and I think people are thinking about the trade offs as well. If you want more bike

[37:12] parking in the State, and you know, on streets that means you have less on street parking. So that's a good point, and that's I. That's I. I think a lot of the. I spent a lot of time talking to folks on the ground. They want convenient parking, and I think they think that's has to be on the street. But I think with increased education around on street garages and the low utilization and garage, and that can shift to the garage. But there's this idea of if I can't see the space I don't know if it's necessarily there and then kind of right sizing, pricing of offstream on street to better kind of value our spaces think currently I have a question. Is there any school of thought around the role that and the perception of activation.

[38:01] Yeah. So I think from if you're biking along a quarter part of the vehicles are a buffer, they help kind of create a sense of place, but I think that's relative to if there is nothing there but that you'd rather have a parklet than a parked car. You'd rather have a parked car that nothing. So if we were redesigning a street cross section on the street, parking is a great way to kind of make that space feel vital and used. But the opportunity cost of that space for vehicle is high. So yeah, relative to what? Relative to a parklet of by corral public seating things like that. It's different than just starting from scratch doing cross-section. So now into the recommendations. So we developed a curve menu so we documented all the existing uses of the curve on the left side in white. So you're familiar with all those, and then on the right side we did a number of peer reviews and national research best practices, and came up with 3 new curb uses that Don't exist today. The first is a flexible loading zone. So we piloted this over the last 6 months, so i'll get into to greater detail on that one on a couple of slides. The other curve use is a public seating process you mentioned.

[39:18] You live in San Francisco. They really come in there. It's often sponsored by business, but you don't have to be kind of servicing that business to be using that parklet. So it's just an opportunity for more greenery additional seating to to dig your cup of coffee, but not associated with the business, and then car share parking. So right now all car share parking is off street. We're still kind of evaluating this this isn't necessarily a hard recommendation, but it's adding a tool and toolbox to consider bringing car share on street. What would that look like? What are the considerations that should be made there so like. And then the next step was developing a typology, understanding that every street you're going to want the curve to look different on every street, depending on the street classification and the land use. So we did this develop a typology of 5 different

[40:08] street types, 2 different alley types based off of this matrix. So you can still just kind of identify 2 extremes. So this is how it all manifested when you mapped out those different types across the city. So 2 different in the of the spectrum. You've got a neighborhood avenue. This is a typical single family home street, where you're going to prioritize vehicle storage, because you have longer term use of the curve. There's not as much turnover. First of the other side of the that the spectrum is going to be a commercial center. High density mixed. Use especially the commercial center. In one of the 3 managed districts like downtown. You have additional funding. You're gonna want higher use for access for people Higher turnover uses more activation kind of bring that street to life. So things like in the pink zone. We've got like it's scooter parking passenger loading it kind of that that activation. The green spaces spaces that Aren't used for more than 15 min

[41:07] versus on the blue. You've got ev parking 88 parking car shirt parking so not as much turnover of spaces. And so what should each of those blocks look like, and as it manifests on the curve, so we don't want to be prescriptive here. There's not a clear definition of you know. Every commercial center block should look like this, because every block is different, and there should be a a spectrum of of different uses depending on every block and kind of allowing for this flexibility. So we've developed a framework. This is a a examples of what different blocks could look like and what it's getting at is showing where I've used blocks to different curvy. So we want flexible loading zones. The ends of blocks so vehicles can easily get at in and out. We want kind of less parking and commercial centers. We want a mix of of kind of spreading out those part that we've got activation and green spaces on different blocks. So we've developed these different typical areas based off of kind of the the common combinations of blocks throughout the city, acknowledging that if you change the uses on one block. You're putting pressure on neighboring blocks, and there's going to be this interaction, and this

[42:18] kind of slow between box and you're we don't want to look at each block in a silo, but we want to look at typical areas more holistically. Can I ask? It's a sort of a temporary situation, but we have a lot of construction. Yes, so we have a whole, and that's not in this this power. It's like getting in the lead. We have a whole flow chart of. When there's construction we are now we we're proposing a new process that the lead of that construction process will have to go fill out a form that says, what curve uses are you displacing? And then, if it's a bus, stop, what? What depending on the curvature you're displacing. Some of them need to be reallocated and others Don't. Yeah. And so this flowchart form helps. Make sure that we're moving t spaces to neighboring blocks that are not closed and we're replacing them nearby. Okay, I think that could be another topic for activation, because

[43:08] it it's not like a necessary like a bus stop, but having a construction site on half the block, or it's part of the sidewalk. Create, even if you technically can get through, it does change the feel of the block and the use of it. Yeah, for potentially very long periods of time. And that's one of the questions in the flow chart is, how long will you be closing the block? And it gives you the guidance as to do the construction of phases, if possible, where your employees are the working on the construction site. So a lot of the field work. I didn't Folder Junction, You've got the construction workers parking on street, taking up spaces for the businesses so kind of directing construction worker parking offsite to not put it even more additional pressure on those on streets. spaces, or uses. That's it. That's a great question. There's so much here. We gave kind of a high level overview. So just qualitatively, how do we want to see changes of these different curve uses in different managed.

[44:05] admit, different managed districts for each of these categories. So more access for people, less vehicle storage. That's gonna look a little bit different, because on that one block one connected. I know a lot of the issues around development of instruction here or late, to just how long everything takes. And is there an element of this that might extend the construction time like? Is it adding logistical red tape to the process of there's already a process, and when they can be allowed to change stuff and moving the bus stop. But yeah, there's already a process in place. Yeah, just not consistent and standardized. So what we've done is just standardize the existing process. So right now the process is very like they ask the same questions of Are you? Is construction displacing a bus stop or closing a bus stop. Yes, okay, you should displace it. But there's not any documentation of that or kind of clear guidance as to when spaces need to be moved. So this process already exists Today it just is probably slower than it would be if we had one form that provides. Really, that's yes, exactly. Thank you, student mining and adding transparency.

[45:14] So the flexible loving, as I mentioned, some of you may have seen me. I think we had 9 downtown and a few on University Hill to what it is is a space for anything you want to do that you can do, and this the pilot was 10 min or less. We're gonna propose a little bit longer 15 min or less so that's overlook. Pick up, drop off. That's private vehicle. Pick up, drop off running in and picking out your takeout dinner, your online order, a commercial vehicle voting as well. So what this does is it pairs, passenger loading, and commercial loading so similar to that shared parking approach of They have different peaks. So let's be more efficient with our produce and pair of those different kinds of loading into one space rather than having distinct spaces for each, but often sit empty, so that commercial loading space it's it's up to you. Friday night. The possibility space. It's up to Tuesday at 10 am. I'm pairing those together. So we're in the process of evaluating those flexible learning sounds through lots of camera data, citation data, crash data as well. We have some preliminary findings that they've been really successful.

[46:13] but we're still weing through lots and lots of hours of footage to kind of understand the before and after of those. But as of now, we'll be making a recommendation for long term implementation of flexible loading zones and key areas across the managed districts. How it is. and random Uber driver. Not a park is there versus a random with over that. So we 2 fenced on the back end the different locations for the flexibility since our so if you were standing, I think, at Kerland 12, it would tell you. You actually have to go meet your uber up pro and 13, because that's where the flexible loading zone is. So it might work. It's worked into Uber and looks like such score. Or if you a unit station, if you've picked up an over it directs you to a very specific location. It does the same thing. So we're in left, for, like cooperative, they're not always in working with us to make sure that their drivers and passengers.

[47:06] That's right, or both directed to those specific locations. And in the observations we found that private vehicles are as aware of where the specimens are. They don't have that geopolitics on the back end. So part of the recommendations after we do this evaluation are increased signage education. We saw folks dropping off a Broadway of pro, where there isn't one of like. If you just go one more block, there will be a safer space to drop off your I i'll get my make. Oh, sorry. So lots of recommendations here a a lot of potential kind of vision for changing the curve. What are going to be those catalysts that cause us to assess to blocks so hard to see over our. But there's 4 main catalyst for changing the curve, and i'll walk through each of those individually. So the first is that the developer so kind of similar to doing a traffic study and and looking at kind of investing in the bike network that's adjacent to your property. The developer will go through this process, and all of these tools will be converted to an online easy to use flow. So this is this is a lot, and it's. It's complex. So these are the ingredients

[48:21] that will then be transformed into something that's much more interactive and kind of shows the information that's relevant to you. And so the developer will assess. based off of my new development. What are the changes to the demand for the curve. So i'm working with outside both and say, I've said the demand for the will be very different than it is today with the vision for this site, and so we'll want much more short term voting rather than on street parking. And so the developer will integrate into that process understanding of what those changes the curve are needed by applying the tools as a part of this guidebook capital project. So North Broadway is a really great example here doing a big corridor, study, plan, design, implementation, construction, whatever it is, understanding how the curve will change into the future in line with this vision. So there are a lot of cost. Efficiencies of assessing curve changes along a corridor as a part of of a broader curbside management plan.

[49:20] I'm: sorry, brother, for our plan. and then the next one is proactive changes. So city staff, looking at 4 different performance measures and understanding blocks that are going to rise to the top, based off of these different performance measures. So cratches. So if there are more than 3 for related crashes on a block in 3 years, that current needs to be reassessed. So you'll look at the typical areas. You'll look to this framework and hierarchy and see what what should the curve look like compared to today, because clearly there's a mismatch and supply demand. There's non-compliance. People are doing things that are unsafe, because the curb use they want to see is not present. So let's get a better match supply and demand. And these various performance measures are indicators that there's that mismatch.

[50:00] But then the last one are reactive changes. So this is happening today where businesses request to change to the curve outside of their business. And right now the city process is not consistent. It's not standardized. It's not transparent. So this is Request a loading zone. The answer to that business is a little bit different every time they say, Well, why did you say yes to my neighboring business? But no to me on the loading zone, and so this will. There's a flow chart that has an element of subjectivity, but quantifies this response with different scores as to whether city staff should agree to make a change to that curve, use or not to agree to make attention to that. So how will this all be implemented? So for every curve use that we saw in the current Menu, there's a cut sheet that talks about design considerations. How long should that curve be where the materials that should be used for a parkway? We need to make sure it's safe as reflective materials. What are the budget? Implications of the cost for construction, operations, and maintenance, as well as staff time acknowledging that there's resources that are going to be needed as we turn the curve over.

[51:01] And is there a recommendation with like sounds particular, but with like response, time and decision making on the city side. Yeah, that is not like. If there's a request from a business to make a change to the how long they have to respond. We did not document that that'd be something. I work with Chris Haggle, and it more not like a robot guidance. I think some of the time implications for this stuff. Cascading impacts on projects, and then people bring these up all the time as being like. There's a lot of process, and the process takes a long time, and I it's it's almost like a way to give guidance to the city on. Maybe the implications of that illness. And like when. yeah, what? When there's a kind of it. When there's a process, it can be easier. And that's why I like what you're saying. If it's a clear cut thing. It should take, maybe an estimate of a week like.

[52:00] Yeah, I as a business owner myself. I see sometimes when people have a lot of time it the process takes longer than it has to. Yes, people know, like actually, that should be a short thing like it's sort of a check the box. Or yeah. Yeah, that's a great addition. That is so. Implementation. What's going to happen first? So looking for a set in that typology, the commercial centers, that's the highest priority. Are these dense, mixed use, especially retail corridors, and then as far as which curb uses, should we look at for a flexible loading, so it's going to be the first one, because then in a comprehensive study on that, and there's a need for more loading phones based off of a lot of the crash data observations we've seen. And then those proactive different performance measures looking for a set of really high crash areas where we've seen a lot of complaints from residents and a lot of non compliance. and then reactive, you know, continuing to response those those business requests, and that the the city should continue to evaluate data and monitor, especially before and after studies that changes to the curve, to understand the implications, to travel, behavior, to moving the city towards its goals and making sure we're clearly communicating these changes to the public and stakeholders and business owners.

[53:14] We've also done a memo that's going to be an appendix of future technologies, ways to enforce the curve, to continue to monitor the curve and just to make sure that we're kind of keeping up with best practice in this space. What is the number? One resident complaint for my downtown? That's a good question. I don't know that I've synthesized that information in that way like by downtown and it that's the curb in front of my residences occupied by others, or i'm not allowed to park there, and so I have to park around the corner apart from my home, and I'm. Yeah, or my guests do as well.

[54:02] So next steps a number of of meetings are obviously in minutes of discussion with with commissions. We'll be giving information packet to Council in April, and then continue to report back as we get feedback. So we recently that feedback from Tab and we'll continue to incorporate that feedback and go through the the council process. So any feedback on we highlighted a few items in particular, that kind of carry a lot of the the weight and substance. But if you have any questions or or comments, would love to to hear your feedback. I was providing some feedback before we really started the meeting, but the and so just to keep them. There was one that had, like map of this downtown area. There was no legend to kind of tell like what all those little color blocks were to be. But when it's interactive that'll make more sense. Yeah, Small thing like business would save their address. And it would tell you what type in the technology map. And then what should it? A typical area look like, based on the

[55:08] There's a vision that we will. You and I were starting to talk about the flow charts of like accessible parking and and flexible loading. And what I didn't understand from those 2 was. What do those get triggered? Because it's almost seemed like you have to ask the question. You run through this one, and then you run through this one, and then you run through this one versus like a overall that says, what do you have, in the first place, and it kind of like tells you to go into a flexible parking. So this is the accessible parking one. So this is the accessible parking one. So this would be the flow to you. Use of a business, requested an Ada space. If the business requires a flexible living space zone space in your appendix you have the flexible, and so on. So you only use one flowchart depending on what the request is for, and then the questions that are asked are specific to that herbs that use. So when it's like, is there capacity of a block for the given demand, and it says, do not. If it says no, it says, do not implement.

[56:13] That was kind of where it's like. There is no like that. Part of it is like that. At that point it seemed like, Well. hmm. Maybe we need to reconfigure them block. Or is there a bigger kitchen? There's like that first one off to the right. That says, No. Just seem to pretty fast. No, and that's it. Okay, this is going to integrate this into the broader vision for what the curve should look like in each type. So this is responding to one space that has a specific request for business. But I think changing that no to can look at the current side implementation guidebook understands that there's maybe potential need for making changes to the curve in the broader area instead of not maybe that one space won't be turned over. But maybe there's a need more broadly. So that's a good, a good point. I I do like a definitive No, though as an answer, because

[57:17] and the more I talk to businesses, I think they're obviously advocating for their own business interest. And sometimes it you give people who and it's just drawn out process of like. Well, maybe i'll change the city's mind to change their codes or to do this, and I I think sometimes that's worse than like a this is a No. This will be submitted to this annual process, and then they just start hitting the payment next year to advocate for their interest, maybe, but desire for speed and efficiency. But, on the other hand, that's a pretty fast. No, and if you do. There's no Well, you want to know why, maybe no. And then an explanation. But i'd rather get a fast note with a good explanation that i'm like waiting to hear months back from the city, and it turning out to be No.

[58:04] And with you know what I mean. Yeah. And I think the it would be a fast No; but that the city is taking action to understand that maybe that request for a loading and doesn't belong in that one space, but it does belong in a broader area, and there that business owner had kind of insight into the need for a loading zone more broadly that wasn't the appropriate space. But that's that's what i'm acknowledging every business. Can't have a loan on the front of their business. That's what I'm: yeah, because I have a certain point to know is like, oh, I I need it. So maybe there's a better that that I know. Yeah, explanation, sufficient explanation and process. Yeah. it seems to be like the key to whatever we've come up with at the end is communications, and most of that is, i'm in my car, and I'm. I'm, not on the Internet.

[59:03] It's like I'm in the situation so that the signage almost seems like it has to be. You know there's regular old signs that I don't even pay attention to any more. I mean it's almost like there needs to be curb painting and different kinds of signage, and because people just don't pay attention. And then our peer review. We looked at cur pain, but from a maintenance, perspective, and just snow often kind of covers that so deviated from that except for potentially painting curve at key locations, but did identify a need from all of our outreach. And then the Peer Review for making signage more clear, so especially our flexible loaning some pilot and talking to folks. Why, didn't use the flexible load, and I didn't understand what that was it? It's about jargony, and so an update to to sign it, and it consistency. So there's not 5 different kinds of loading signage through what? And you know it looks like it connects it.

[60:00] I struggle with this a lot. Some businesses on Pearl have like an alley pick up, and once I figured out that they did. It took me years. I stopped trying to look for those like 2 loading spots which I never found after circling multiple times. There were very few, are always busy, so i'm wondering if education to the restaurants, or even within some of the app workflow. I don't that I don't know how easy that is to implement at all. But even for me I would consider myself Harry. like even i'm on this commission pretty knowledgeable of this stuff. I struggle and just abandon city pickups altogether in my car, which maybe we want. But yeah, so that that was. That's the thing that I think it's very confusing to know if you can pick up something off of pearl or not, and maybe there's more direction to businesses to use the Allies, how they should use them, and Allie Flow is really challenging. It's like

[61:00] I went the wrong direction right in from least car, and I was like, oh, shoot! So that that part, I think, is is quite confusing, and I don't know a good answer, except to say that, like I don't think signs of every every business. We don't want them like putting signs like go here like it's really ugly. So maybe there's some other sort of more integrated education to businesses about where they pick up like food pick up should be, and the other, we learned was that a lot of businesses don't know about the first 15 min of parking being free from. I don't know that lots of the public don't know that, and so better education around that as an opportunity for quick question. Sorry, Carly. Here I typically don't want to interject. This is your meeting. But what's their data collected around the 15 min free. We haven't run the report. Yet. We're working on

[62:01] getting that built out with the back end system, as far as I know. But that's something that we're interested in looking into. Yeah, this. Theoretically, I mean that turns all paid spaces into a flexible living zone for personal uses, you know, needing to. If he, if your if your stay is less than 15 min. It can. It's not your first that so it's there. but at the pay stations already right in my arm. This will work. I barely. But they're not. I agree with that, except that they're not frequently free. The spots, because that's that's that's the that actual flexible loading zone comes in is that you cannot see that longer than even if you pay. And so it will promote more of those free space. Yeah. And I think the public might be annoyed to see those spaces transition, but then it might direct people to garages. I mean. I remember I picked extreme example somewhere in Denver, where the whole parking lot

[63:07] was annoyingly turned into like 15 min only, and as a and you get there and you're like, I can't park in this whole parking lot. They direct you to a garage like the only place you can park, which was frustrating at first. But then you get used to it. So I I think that people could react negatively at first to not as much on street if they transition, but I do think it might direct to the garage. We're trying to. Yeah the goal and do that through kind of flex or variable signage that says, there's a space here on level 2, and it's cheaper to park in the garage than on street. So a lot of kind of educational takeaways of of what to communicate to the public, to promote off street parking and use that on the street space for things like this making and vitality. Okay, like, if every spot is a flexible spot for the first for 15 min on my! It feels really like No, I just

[64:02] am I not going to get a ticket because I didn't pay so the cops he's no he in my car. So i'm going to get a ticket. but they don't know that it's all license plates. Yeah, you enter. You either enter your license plate through the app or through the key app to get to 15 min free. But we don't. We're not printing physical. It gets any more at all, so that might help my last. My last question is like, what how would you sit boulder in terms of it's how up up to date and innovative are we in this? Would you say we're like standard behind a head of like other comparable cities of our size. Yeah, when you're doing a codes I manage plan which puts you in the top 10 cities. There are only a handful of this. Well, that's huge, I think in this moment probably lower on the list of the of larger metropolitan cities like Seattle, San Francisco, Atlanta, are doing really DC. Doing very, very cold pilots of things like needing a reservation for a loading space, converting the on street space to an extended sidewalk on weekends in Georgetown. So some need pilots that are going on around the country, and I think boulders just starting to dabble in this space.

[65:25] Hopefully, with this effort, and once it gets implemented. okay. well, to keep things moving, any other costs. Sign it. Well, thank you for coming. I said. It's seat out coming. Okay?

[66:13] Oh, it seems to be just how. Where is the button? It's a good segue from some of the comments from Yeah, I was just thinking about that. Yeah, since. Oh. there we go. since we were just talking about sign, clutter and confusing signage. That is a very good segue for our on street signage Refresh project that we're working on this year. So this is just a quick heads up that we are working on a project to update some of our sign infrastructure and clean the signage up and make it a little bit more consistent and standard across the city as a whole. So you'll start to see these signs going up downtown.

[67:07] and there the one on the right is going to be at the kiosk, so that they'll be easily identified for people to find the kiosk. They want to pay that way, and then the other one is more of a informational sign and regulatory sign to let people know when they need to pay it, part to Park, and how they need to pay to park. So that's going on this year. That's a quick question. or the do you have data on how many people you see here? We do. I haven't looked at it recently for downtown. I was just doing that analysis for camp, because we're evaluating the the Chatauqua area management program pilot this year, and so it was interesting, for camp was when it started back in 2,018 utilization for Park Mobile, which is the app was like 35 versus kios. You know much higher, and that's completely footflop. So now it's about 70% app usage and the rest is kiosk. So

[68:09] pretty interesting that that shift. And in the downtown the last time I and it was about 30 for for the pandemic it was 30% heart mobile. Yeah, more kiosk. But since then we've replaced all the kiosks with less. Yeah. And folks for want to touch things in. I have to. I don't think it's it's it's like. Okay. And this is a little off topic. But I just wanted to remind the commission we talked about this last year, but performance based pricing is going into effect rather soon in a couple of short weeks. So we're gonna be starting to, you know. Put out this information more. You'll see, as in the daily camera there is going to be press releases. So information is coming shortly. This is the map of where parking will be going up to $2 per hour.

[69:14] Everything else is going to stay at dollar 50 per hour. But this is just a a quick reminder, since we're here that this is what you expect coming to. Alright thanks, Sam. any questions for Sam before we adjourn our special meeting. so that that concludes our special Vmc. Meeting. It can move to a turn, Chris. Sure. Officially, from the we. I move we adjourn our special meeting and take a little bio break before we move into the Dmc. Retreat. You can make sure that the notes reflect the file break. You know that's good. Thank you. See?

[70:09] Yeah. Well, that's take 5 cents. It is currently signed 40, so 945. Let's start the that there's there's a sign. Okay, Well, there's 2 signs.

[71:01] I know that was confused. I know that was confused. I know that was confused. Yeah, so that's people that are basic. So it's that, like whatever you need. So you gave me a explain it. So i'm just going to give a quick up. And so I need to. Okay, when and everything we muted to get over the back. Yes. so you'll be a panelist. You don't have to be a You don't have to be a

[72:13] right. Oh, i'm not that that's it. That's right. Oh, it's got it

[73:02] and and cell phone screens. How was your lane? How was your happy or yesterday? You know what it was actually just Jen and I and Chris Jones show like we were ready to cut out the door, and Chris showed up, so he had one. But and then I had to get home. I played virtual bridge on my last night. So it was just Jennifer, you know the play it was. It was just Jennifer Jen saying, I'm issue, and I want to get together. And so, even though i'm working on Monday, i'll come in and meet you. So then I broadcast it out, and everyone I fly it like I got it. So Bill and I were at Tab last night, so that was like glory. Call even Molly, our previous director, Molly Winter. She don't have Doctor's appointment. but we'll do it again.

[74:02] This. of course. Thank you. So the one candidate that we had. It's not a property owner, and they did not want to let it work any time. I'm. A property of a representative, so they are not eligible. I think we need to look at changing there. and they did so, and the policy has changed. They they are they. So what about so it's. I know it's 3 for you, too 3, and that's for the State. Well, for general, from the districts, you know kind of a majority property on a representation.

[75:07] So let's say changes. I think we're going to be happy to be stuck with that. It was so funny. It's like where you guys from, and they're like, and you're you didn't call out your Colorado. Yeah, we didn't have anonymous. It's like it's not to even try John.

[76:21] We're ready to get started again. I guess we did justice on his way. Oh, so I was wondering if it's it's a quick text I will be there for. So I have some slides. I'm gonna try to fly through because we are a bit behind that. I want to make sure. We have maximize the time for commission discussion around priorities and the objective development. How much do we need to make up? How far behind are we? We are probably half an hour behind. Yeah, and we have guests that are gonna start showing up at 11.

[77:00] So want to make sure that with that open discussion yeah, that that there's an opportunity for exchange with with all of those. So yeah, i'm gonna fly through. But our agenda do a quick 22 year interview. We're going to talk about the roles and responsibilities of the Commission and of staff there was an attachment in your packet, or a kind of the history of the priorities and the letters over the years for some context. We'll talk about the 2023 council priorities. We might and I might fly through these. We might not need another break. I'll leave it up to the chair to decide, and then we can get into some open discussion around I already setting for the years ahead so real quick in 2,022 the things that we made significant progress on first partnering with the downtown boulder partnership and other city departments, and supporting their work in developing downtown vision plan. So hopefully, you all have been hearing a lot about that, and it must be Council actually

[78:07] a couple of meetings ago. So they've they've seen it, and we're able to provide their comments to check. And so it's not a it's not a plan that's city, but a dot, because we didn't produce it, but it seems like overall. There's good community support for the big moves and big ideas that are in that. A document. And certainly you know something to be thinking about is, we're establishing priorities for? Very well. Yeah, there are no no major like what you're doing. There were questions again, about as typical about equity considerations in the outcome business community, and how to how are we attracting and retaining minority of businesses in the downtown? So that was probably one of the substantive questions that we haven't solved yet right, and that's tied to some of our more affordable commercial conversations. And we'll talk a little more about that.

[79:07] Of course, as you will know. Cv. Was instrumental in championing the outdoor dining pilot program in partnership with the number of other departments. We just post out our second application round. We have 9 applicants. Most of them are downtown, so on the West End and some elsewhere. So really looking forward to working with those applicants hopefully hopefully getting them across the finish line so that they can have expanded outdoor diving by summer access management parking strategy. Probably you've heard more about that project, probably, than any of our other projects, and so same has been doing a fantastic job, and we've now hired her on permanently. She's with us forever. So we don't need to talk more about that. I think we you all know what we've been working on that front a lot going on in that area. I wanted to highlight. You know all the new retail tenants that we have in 2,022 from anna's art gallery to a liquid salon, or over the it was liquid, but now it's called over the so transition there the architecture, firm transition. It's still like a picture firm in color, of glass works.

[80:19] In the former common era. They they just shop and a hash. That's right. So we are now fully our our first 4 spaces are fully occupied right now, what's going into the place at the corner where the right at the fifteenth and Pearl, across from a legal pizza across from a that opens I'm going from my birthday. I'm going to their softphone. It's something opening in the form of Art Gallery, next to Monti.

[81:09] all the spaces pretty much all the first first places around downtown are least just. If there's a change in use, there's a significant city planning process that businesses have to go through before they can open. One example is all Ted Montana Grill has been least for some time, but the users are vintage or or rehab furniture shop, but also wants to sell coffee and beverages. so it's a different use. That's the next to the next to so from my next to the let me go, and she still. Oh, there not the one that's been vacant for a long time, which is next to the pizza place and a corner unit. Patty Corner from Avanti. Oh, that's so. Yeah, that is, Sheba Hut is least in some time ago. But going through a significant

[82:08] processes, my understanding. So yeah, there are a different concept, for yes. I think perceived they can see an actual vacancy, and it's like it's profound, I think, public things. It's the sign of the end time to folder, whereas it's just like a extremely long. and then and then the like, the top hat and the restaurants, like all those properties, are being developed so going. So that's all gonna get. And yeah, so there are. There's a reason why they're not it's like there isn't demand. It's just the the transition the time it's taken to transition the spaces to their future uses

[83:01] is not happening as Yeah. And I I talked to like some Council members about this, but there, there are No. you can't like. Tell a developer or a business like put signs up to say that construction is in progress or like guide them on what to do. You can. You can make recommendations, but you can't enforce those. and that's like the free speech violation. So I think it's an interesting. maybe opportunity to make recommendations that people can choose not to do. But I think that's maybe something we could talk about. It's certainly a role that downtown. All the partnership is played and activating spaces that are, you know you're gonna be transitioning for just working with the business owners like Hoppa is moving to the space on the West End. They've put banner that they're but you know they didn't want to commit to how this coming summer, 2023, until they knew that they could follow through in summer. 22. I would have liked to have been open a long time ago.

[84:09] and they just you know when they put those banners up. They want to be accurate in their marketing, so it's certainly acknowledging. It's not where we want to be planning. Also, it's not where they want it to be. They're not they. They've had a lot of turnover in their staff, and so they're They're working really hard to get back to their desired benchmarks for for permit processes. Yeah, that is such a i'm not quite. But we're really happy. It's our occasion on spaces. For the most part, the former Michael Bitner space on the second floor at 1,100 spruce. It's a small how many's for feet? A 1,000 a second floor office space is our only vacant space, and it's been vacant for a while, and and just very limited interest, of course, in second or office oriented space. But we're exploring possibilities with our arts and culture team. Maybe there's something that

[85:06] that the arts community went back to that space so more to come in 2,023 on that front. But we're really glad to to see the transitions that we've seen in which cases and we just signed a 5 year lease with Mont or their States. So which is a nice, some commitment from them to be in that space for for some time. Let's see, and of course we it maybe hasn't been as noticeable for the Commission, but adding both special events in our culture work groups to our department. There's no small left. Teresa and our team were very much involved on the financial side of making sure that they are getting supported, and the ways that they need to be, and also learning all their processes and understanding their accounts and everything that happens on the back end and keep our special events and our arts and culture program moving forward a lot of learning. and that we're still learning, but that that was a big it wasn't maybe noticeable in the moment, but hopefully we're timer to see the ways that the arts and culture and special events are now more integrated with the market community vitality, and they are already from this last, because of that.

[86:16] the roles and the responsibilities of missions really guided by the Boulder Device Code, I've taken out some of the language. If you want to read if you haven't already read all the language, and the Boulder revised code around the the Downtown Management Commission. When you have some brief time I I certainly wouldn't discourage it. But these are some highlights. So first it's the role of the Commission to provide recommendations to the City Council, acting as the Board of directors of to to provide parking and related improvements for cage it. That's specific to the language in the in Brc. You undertake an advisory role to the City council regarding the overall welfare on the downtown commercial district, and immediately adjacent areas. and third, you recommend a budget to the city manager in the City Council and the City Council acting as a K. Of work Director. So that's just the regular, you know. Every year we need to make sure that we're doing these things in that framework. But there's a lot in the vehicle around the Ice Code. This is a lot, not all the X in the Brc.

[87:19] But and i'm not gonna lead through all of this. But first and foremost acquisition of property and repair of that property for the purposes of changing, which historically has been around access. but management, control, and supervision of all the business business affairs of caged in the the construction operation, maintenance of those assets. determination and revision of of user charges for the use of those parking facilities or access facilities provided by cages. So you all do get to make the decisions about parking, pricing, working permits. We have, you know, all those processes over the past 50 years mechanical at this point, as far as we have a process for what you know, how we raise the parking permits to Cpi. But if that if you don't feel like we're our policies that we have in place for doing that are our meeting our expectations. That's

[88:19] something that that you do have control over. You are not given leverage over on street parking rates, and so it's really important. You know our strategy with on street parking, and the work that Sam is doing is to drive folks to the garage. So, keeping a garage prices at a, at a place where we can encourage folks who want to park for longer, to use the garage instead of limited onstreet for you over the on street. the city traffic engineer with city council consideration. You go back one side, please, responded.

[89:04] When I think about this. Historically, you and I had a conversation a year ago or so. It was like kind of directing us like you oversee parking lots and parking. But when I look at number to. We also oversee the health and welfare of the commercial district and in other areas as well. So we're not just parking. No primary function is access, but but it can also include a lot of other things, and it doesn't grow a lot of other things. So we own and maintain some assets on the Pearl Street Mall. Then over over time. It's been determined that Kate wants to support things like the popjet bones, or some of the art installations things like that. And so we set money aside every year to make sure that those assets are well maintained. We work our current creation that's jurisdiction over the Pearl Street Mall to make sure that the assets that we've supported over the years continue to be in good repair. And so, if there is, then it. The the health and welfare of the district is a very broad consideration, and so

[90:08] so we do have a little bit more preview than I thought we did. Sure. Yeah, I mean, downtown management does not sound like parking. It sounds. I think it's. Maybe it's confusing. It's also seems weird to me, but they have like a jurisdiction over the Mall. That's an interesting. And there's a lot of there's a lot of a lot of different departments with different roles and responsibilities in the public right away. But the 4 blocks of Pearl Street all are considered an urban park. So it is so. That is why they have the responsibilities to them all. Okay. Can you tell me what? What For models reporting from the Dmc. Exist on the Dmc. To Council? If so, whenever there's a resolution passed, whether it's approval of the budget, or an addition of a parcel, or some legislative decision that the Commission makes that you have the authority to make.

[91:13] We then transmit that to Council typically be a consent agenda, because largely for all of the Commissions Council trusts the Commission's the right thing, and they don't have to be. Call it those items, and they change the decision or revisit the decision. So that's largely you from things like changing the number of times that we need per year. So we use meet every month. and I thank you for not asking us to to meet a vacuum, because it's it's very challenging with the number of conditions that we have, and I feel like we get some time to get some work done in between processing, so that resolution that you all passed went to city council, consent, agenda, and if they are like No, no, no, we need Dmc. To meet every month they could have called it up and said, Sorry, but you need to need every month

[92:04] so anything that that there's a resolution passed automatically gets transmitted. We have the option to include all of the minutes from our meetings. Just an informational item for council. We haven't done that as a matter of process, certainly something that we can consider. Council has access. You know all of the minutes the meeting minutes are available online. We don't typically transfer the commissions. All of the materials from all of our meetings to the information items. But that's something that some. So the best way for us to communicate to council is through resolution, and then it does get asked to them correct, because they mean the Council ultimately is the actual of agent, and you all serve as an advisory. So it's a it'd be a resolution that Dmc. Supports. And then Council would actually have to be the one to act suite of something more than the letter once a year. Yes, if you have a resolution, it Can you like Map? But you're gonna get to the City Council. Could you help us map that back to our function a bit like their priorities back to where?

[93:18] Because I think that's the disconnect for me like I feel like parking is we've been doing a lot, and my sense is that we are now needing to implement what we've done or watch it implement it like. It seems like the future of what we're going to focus on this year should be connected to the priorities. But I don't exactly know our lane always kind of connecting the dots between where we could do some have some impacts. Okay? Well, and I think it's important to understand the context of the past 50 years of agent in the sense of you know, 50 years ago, downtown was struggling, and there were decisions made in the community saying that that what we're seeing happening in other communities is property. Owners are tearing down their neighbors, building their purchase

[94:05] or tearing it down so they can have a service parking lot, so that their property can have parking which led to the degradation of urban environments across the country. And this community said, we are going to. Yes, we're going to do that we're going to tear down certain parcels and turn it into our our parking assets. So we don't have every property owner trying to do that same thing, and assuming their own parking liability, which destroys the urban fabric. And so we've been very successful in that right. But now we have. We have 5 parking garages, and those 6 he did own parking garages and a service lot that now we have our long term maintenance liability. So our capital campaign. But we reinvest it. Yes, but it doesn't. But we need to make sure, first and foremost, that our previous capital campaign to build 6 garages and keep them from falling into the ground. That's number one priority. Those are the assets that this district phones, and our our first priority needs to be making sure that the

[95:10] as we're tired that and we have a very healthy bond. there's certainly opportunities for future capital campaign which could include maybe spruce parking lot. This through a lot of Broadway, and for us we own that we could have a conversation about what does that parcel want to become? Because we have complete jurisdiction over that part? Or is there another person downtown that we want to acquire and do something in those cases, or do we want to partner with other departments. We don't have jurisdiction over the public right of way. We're over Parkslam, and so for wanting to do, spend some of our resources, or how the capital campaign, or issue debt or infrastructure. That's not on parcel that we own that's a lot more nuanced and a lot more complicated. We don't have as much control in jurisdiction.

[96:07] and so certainly, but all of that should be related to we have what is the what are the priorities of the Commission in our role that's described explicitly in the Boulder Revised code from what what it is that our priorities are, and how are we in service with that that helps so we could buy a new lot. But the that's under our Yes. as an example. But so again, we have the responsibility. Maintain and repair public property located in, but not owned by cage that is beneficial to the purposes of pages. So that's things that we currently maintain, like the newspaper rafts and the pro street mall by cracks that we've worked to install associated with our for access multimodal

[97:01] responsibilities, the up to a fountain, things like that that we supported. If investment that's not on cage, it own property. But we've helped from those improvements over the years, and so we also need to make sure we're in? Is that yeah, how does that make sense to this is like the civic center area? Or is that it that they all So I need to keep it supported. or the farmers market me 2 weeks they'll be supported initiatives into that which in those parks Yes, for instance. So we don't own any assets on Thirteenth Street, but we supported the the restroom trailers last year. We also, in the past the Fifteenth Street design district was a project of community vitality. So the banners and the the urban design improvements we're supported by community vitality, and that's all part of our. And then how does that connect with the business improvement district and the efforts they have taken me. It's all very so. So this is the this Improvement district. Those dollars are largely operation

[98:12] where they support special events support taking up the trash, keeping the space clean and welcoming. And that's an annual operating approach where the general improvement district is largely capital lot of capital campaigns that have led to long term meetings, liabilities to keep those capital assets in a State equipment. Yeah, just for Lisa. The record show that if we're taking records, Commissioner Conference here, I got it. And so right now, Justin, we're talking about, what are the rules and what do we get to do. There's a piece of paper there, and we're now on fine a do we like halfway down the page? Okay. just so you can keep up. Oh, where am I right? Well, and we appreciate you. Probably not much of a morning person. Oh, yeah.

[99:09] there is coffee as when and Bagels and whatnot. I am right outside here, as far as that that vacant space 11. Whatever you said, that second floor office do we own that? So yeah, all the retail spaces that I've mentioned like cholera last works month out organic sandwich Cajun owns those retail spaces. That's why I said, we're fully occupied in for for retail specifically in. That's a good question. And do you know how I think 7, 8? Well, we've got 11, and as well as 15 per yeah, and well, it depends on how we break them up. Well, first floor, that's They're broken up in different. But yeah, so we've got 1 2 3,

[100:01] 4, first, 4 tenants, 1 2 3 4, first, 4 tenants at 11 in spruce. then there are second, 4 tenants as well. symmetry, 360, and massage space has first floor and second floor. We're housing the downtown older ambassadors out of the second floor of eleventh and spruce. We're housing the small business Development center out of the second floor at 1,500. Not at the library anymore. Nope. They've moved to North Space housing meeting. They're not. That's another thing we did last year that I should have on that list, and supporting the Sbdc. And moving to to some of some of the spaces people are paying rent to so Spdc. By contract. We not pay rent. They're not the we. The city is obligated to provide space with free. If we want them house in Bulgar because they're connected in State small business. So we're really delighted to be able to have again thinking about the function of community vitality, not just around

[101:13] access for people, but just the vitality and and supporting the the business mix. We're really delighted to be able to house, as you see in our space. and then we also have arts and culture and special events. So so largely. The second floor for 10 or pearl is is all city related business from our Enforcement operation to our partnership with Sbdc. Second floor at 1,100. Spruce is almost fully occupied other than my small space. That Michael Bitner used to be house out of our property manager. which is again very different from what you see. A lot of second force bases throughout the rest of the downtown that we don't know. And then there's a lot of agencies. But as far as our spaces we are highly downtown. Boulder Ambassador program the city is that's also a city program. So we're not generating rent out of this. So yes, our second floors are all occupied. But we're also about gender meetings a lot of revenue.

[102:13] It's a Let's see. Just looking at the the very last bullet here extend funds appropriated to the Commission for maintenance of data concerning and for promotion of events and pages. So this is tied to our work with downtown Border partnership. They do a great job in these areas, but we support that as well. We sponsor events. The the App Rate Street festival was sponsored by the city, the harp of funds. But staff time went into helping support our contract with the bid and the downtown Border partnership to make great events happen and activations happen throughout the district.

[103:00] and so on the city side. So those are all those are all your responsibilities. Our responsibility is to provide staff to support the Commission, to meet the obligations to city council, and so from putting on things like this retreat to developing a budget supports the the purpose of the central area to keep those assets in good shape to exploring what's next. And so I know that that's largely the conversation that we want to to be pursuing is is where we added from here. So the work that we're doing, and i'm gonna you all our mayor with this. So I don't want to spend any time on this, but we can send this presentation out, but we have a You know the Community vitality department is about 48 folks at this point, but the cage and specific operation is is maybe a quarter of of that staff

[104:00] from our maintenance program to Sam's work to just general administration like to about third of that staff where arts and culture is citywide. Special events is citywide. Our Enforcement program is city wide, so there is certainly some. There is a lot of our focus is downtown, but not all of it is heated funded work. So we involve you all the decisions that we're making on the city live front as our subject matter experts, and how those to city, why decisions impact and effects downtown, for instance, per side management. That's a general fun decision. That's a council decision. Cages that you all get signed how we fill out the curve, but you have interest in it. We want to make sure that those interests are considered as public works. Transportation are making decisions about how that space is alligated. So here is a recap of priorities, as they're currently stated in your agendas. I don't know if we wouldn't read through these, or if we just wanna fly ahead and get into Jim. I think this is why we're holding this. Because we don't necessarily agree. Okay, so we won't. Talk about the bottom of our pay for 2.

[105:17] So as a recap for city council, 2022, 23 priorities. There are a number of priorities accessory to a unit update. There's been a lot of work happening on that front, so changes to residential land use to allow more a to use in residential areas. Inclusionary housing. That's our for housing program and zoning for a middle income housing. A lot of housing, a homeless space Homelessness day center is in process, housing and services leading that conversation. The transportation front focusing on the core arterial network plan was that came out of Tab last year. The the only

[106:08] downtown up to that is, is a study of downtown. of circulation and connectivity. And we're working with transportation, playing and development and others to envision that process likely in 2,024 occupancy reform of you. You've seen some work on that this this conversation is housing bolt rejection phase 2 the Dj. Commissions are very excited about this work. It's kicked off. We're going to them actually tomorrow, planning and development services leading that efforts that's going to lead to a complete reimagining of all of the parcels east of the Bns, up railroad tracks to Foothills Parkway from Pearl Parkway to Belmont. So it's really everything that you see in Boulder Junction base one. It's envisioning. Okay, what's now going to happen on the other side of the railroad tracks

[107:00] area 3 planning reserve. I think that's perpetually a city council priority. That area 3 is north of 20 Eighth Street. As it curves toward as you're on your way to lions. So our north area 3 is a planning reserve that is set aside, and it's not open space intended to be some unknown, you know, need of the city. So back when we were aggressively purchasing open space, there was a acknowledgment that maybe there is a future use of land that we need to make sure that there is land available to do whatever that thing is. And there's been a lot of proposals over the years from a. You know World class state of the art sports. training facility to that's that's one that's precious on my range to. You know, a different style of of housing

[108:06] and getting getting agreement among folks on what? Because it's. It is truly the last available large, undeveloped parcels of land so. and making a decision that around that space it's it's it's challenging because it's it's hard for us to make small decisions. They once so. and then some election reform and all it. You've seen a lot happening around that over the past few years from a ring choice voting for selecting the Mayor. And now we're going to be transitioning, you know, from even years, odd years, or vice versa, I remember, anyhow. Yeah, even yes. So a lot happening on that front and to the petitioning process and things like that. So? Those are the established prairies of council that they are continuing to focus on challenging. This is.

[109:05] you know, where where it is. None of them are downtown, none of them. or things that we're really we would focus on so. But it doesn't mean that we're not. We're not still working hard on things that are important to you. It's just some kind of squeaky wheel things, or the current council will be here about which your downtown is. whereas the city just operates and has a lot of important things that they do. I would point out, though, that it's Cbs. Here we we know we have the you have councils. Agenda is elsewhere. It doesn't mean that we don't have annual obligations to to our work, and we want to be inspired, and we want to help that change in the community as well. We did a lot of work last year. You've heard about this already from me on the strategic planning, but just as a reminder of the 3 pillars that we established for the role of community vitality in the city our cultural vibrancy. So that's a lot of our work kind ofates and cultural special events and support of those types of things in our general improvement district and beyond

[110:15] district vitality. So specifically we want to make sure that the districts that we manage are representative and reflective of the broader values of the community and the sustainability, equity. and then access for all, of course, which is our foundation of why we exist. But these 3 things work really together in the sense work really well together in the sense of cultural vibrant. So we need to make sure that all the folks that want to enjoy special events, public art, all of the things that make fuller, culturally vibrant. They need to be able to to get to the places and enjoy them. I think about Santa Fe first Fridays in Denver. It's a great cultural experience. very challenging to get to if you try to get there at the wrong time.

[111:02] So a lot of cultural vibrancy. But access is challenged district vitality. You can have a really vital district, and people can get there with really great parking and multimedia access. But there's no cultural vibrancy. Then you're just another. Yeah, another. You know place that people can go, but there's no necessarily identity. So making sure that we understand and appreciate the connection between these 3 coat of the work that we do, and in the virtual cycle that makes it so that more people can and want to be in the special places that we manage, and that's the role that can be vitality us to play, to make sure that. But the spaces for me, vital environment. So our purpose, statement, and community vitality that we established was, we strive to reach folder, sustainability, equity and resilience, framework goals through our unique work and parking and access district vitality, arts, and culture and special events. To ensure that our key community assets are vibrant, welcoming, inclusive, and safe.

[112:05] To accomplish this, we will establish boulder as the most culturally by current community on the front range. we will transform our general improvement districts to best reflect community values. You will ensure that puller's key community assets are accessible to all people. We will responsibly leverage organizational resources to support the achievement of long-term objectives. And finally, we will earn industry, recognition in the areas of access place, making arts and culture and community building. So those are. That's the work that you did internally to to identify what sets community vitality. But what's our role in this organization compared to parks or recreation, or transportation and mobility, and that and that's the that's the messages that we've developed a staff, and certainly want to run those, you know. Set that stage for you all as you're thinking about what's the what? Specifically we want to be seeing downtown from community vitality

[113:05] so real quick for 2023, and the stuff that we're on this year in support of those goals are continue to work in access management partner strategy. So you heard from Sam a little bit on some what's happening in that realm? I said. A 2.6 million dollar capital program. It's actually more than that, because we have some roll over projects from last year. So I think we're up to 3.2 million in capital projects in 2023 alone that includes going gateless in all of our downtown city owned garages that work as well under way. Sam is working to lead that as well. the sign replacement. So not just the science that you heard from Sam today, but also the digital signs out in front of all the parking garages. and then we have major maintenance projects going on in 4 garages. There's some waterproofing work happening in the we are repairing 20 years of erosion at the St. Julian parking garage.

[114:06] We have some, you know, ongoing corrosion repair at the at the Randolph Center, which is, you know it's our oldest garage, and certainly has. It's the most challenging to keep that in a state of the repair. It's not going to fall down unless we purposely want it to fall down, and I would totally be happy to explore that, and that would be as a parcel of the king. It owns that we could determine a future, a different future, for yes, we'd have to unbundle the Conf. Figure out a way to unbumble the condo. So a lot going on. Oh, and some ramp work at Fourteenth and Malnut. So the ramp at the Rtd garage had some concrete corrosion that needs to. It's getting repaired this year

[115:01] commercial area activations. We've already talked a bit about this, but we're we're partnering with this Cross Department downtown streets of public space as well as the downtown boulder partnership on doing more activations and and new events in spaces that that we might not simply see the downtown Apprais Street best was our first example of that, and we're looking forward to partnering with shipping his team on doing more things like that throughout the year. We're doing that work in our other districts as well, working with hopefully the University, and possibly having University Hill being the home of away game life parties outside in the fall. presuming that folks are going to be a lot more interested in seeing football this year. I have been in the past as an example affordable commercial program develop development. Reagan has been working very closely with the real estate center at our next meeting. We will have some updates for you all on the proposals they're coming up with. We have, an

[116:05] I think we're at $400,000 in change of funds identified for support of an affordable commercial program. So these C. Students have been working hard. I think there's 5 at students they've been. They've brought people in from Portland so they're they're they're They're impressively wanting to to help us leave the way, and what affordable commercials gonna look like in Boulder. And we're gonna have some recommendations to bring to you all, Probably at the next regular meeting. I'm. So really excited about that renewed the University Health commercial reinvestment strategy. It's our smallest district. It's our smallest budgeted district, and right now there is a a lot of change in flux, and so as important as you all are in downtown is, and our assets that we maintain downtown. Given what the University Hill area has been through Rigan in spending, and the team are spending a lot of time focusing on. How do we support the district through this construction phase.

[117:04] And then also, what's the what's the next chapter for District owned lot at Fourteenth Street, behind Starbucks at Fourteenth and colleges? And how are we working with university and transportation, mobility and parks and recreation on what is the vision for a University hill to downtown connection by? The folks have said Gondola. I Heardve been promoting a an arched Harris wheel type thing it up so so we all in that, too, and the University. Now i'm Kate, but the city. So it depends on which slot you know. So Caj: it does not you. J. It owns the lot behind Starbucks. You just does not own that small lot in front of the sync that's on by the University. Why are we involved? You just owning that

[118:04] it's not strictly. Yeah, it's not strictly. And then, of course, experiments in public art, which is a citywide program. But we're really excited about our proposal for 1,100 spruce. and hopes that it inspires more things like that, and and maybe some bigger public arts campaigns connected to caged assets in the years to come. That's a that is a very fast overview of everything that we have going on right now, and with that you have our scheduled break. I'll leave it to the chair to determine what I say we keep moving because we're behind. Okay. So from there I want to really open it up to the chair to discuss where we want to go with we already setting. I have some ideas of how we want to kind of pull things out, but i'd love

[119:03] to just open it up to discussion, because it sounds like You've been doing some thinking, Don around in this area and communicating with commissioners, one on one so glad to get into. I can now either facilitate and pull things out of you all, or hand it over to you, and we can. What have it? I I I'll wait till Susan comes back she I didn't civics. But yeah, I have been thinking. and i'm sure Stephanie's been thinking, i'm sure Justin's got some ideas on them. So see? That's so. I I would maybe recommend that we do just to keep it organiz still. Haven't, you know, go through one by one and say all those things that you've been thinking about. I have the sticky notes in front of you. We like to take maybe 10 min and use one sticky note per concept.

[120:04] and then we can put them all up on the forward, and it's commonly themes. We can group those things together, and then have a conversation about this common themes as opposed to sending one commissioner in time doing a whole. That sounds good. It's like writing happening. So let's do it. That's does everybody understand the assignment. I will. I will let you know. Oh, thanks.

[121:24] That is the right share. Oh. nice! Stick them up for now and across that it's. Thanks. Okay. and it's good after meetings.

[122:04] you know it's honestly. Bye. i'm good.

[123:25] You've done this before you One of them I kind of lead this for like. I've seen that you have to keep writing and and tell you. Feel like You've exhausted all your brain thoughts.

[124:29] We're very selfish. There's no support for Ukraine up here. I think it's in our jurisdictions.

[125:09] You might for either, because once people hear stuff. But yes. so i'm a. So let's see. I'm just gonna go through. Kind of it's kind of my thinking about grouping. So right here we've got x 85 year vision plan. That's the downtown and presuming the downtown boulder. There's been plans to say relationship to it. I but also over here, Connect Hill, Earl Bj. At 20 Ninth Street and North Boulder. The downtown vision plan does have some priority around connections to what neighboring communities. So I put that in there because I feel like that's a good connection to the vision plan. but sell or change use of Randolph Garage in the sense of while the downtown vision plan does not specifically say that I would say that in some of the the thinking around what our opportunities are engaged in, the assets that we have

[126:01] control over, that would be one that we could help influence some of the outcomes of it by division. But I don't know if we're gonna pull it off in 5 years, try to. It could become a bigger conversation. It's over here. I've got a lot of things around Post Covid recovery dealing with vacancies, planning for the future. So got plan for future with self driving cars. which may be, it may be 2 years from now, maybe 200 years from now. But just see, there will be less need for the parking. So we there, there, we no private car ownership anymore. You just get in whatever automated vehicles passing less in front of it. But it is going to also called a bus, by the way. less workers working from home. So this is really again, I think, related to Covid downtown post Covid recovery.

[127:05] and this I put over here because I think it's kind of connected, but also rezoning for livable spaces downtown. So as we're seeing the second floor spaces being underutilized. What are some conversations around rezoning in the downtown that might allow for more residential uses in those cases. and then mitigation of negative externalities of construction, vacancy, appearance. So again, I feel like it's connected to the current challenges that we're seeing in the downtown district. Maybe some vulnerabilities. And so what are we gonna do? And what's our role in to help mitigate some of those challenges? A couple of things on downtown safety? The Mall and Jason and I put this with homeless space shelter. They're not necessarily interconnected, but across the front. But they are connected. And so we've been doing a lot in this area, and and curious if there were more, I mean, given how much we hear about the impacts of homelessness. I guess I I was surprised to not see more sticky. That's safe things like this, but I mean

[128:14] plenty of ideas. I didn't know if it was like outside of our it. It doesn't seem connected to our well, and i's say that I was. You know one thing that I would say that we are doing is partnering with the downtown older partnership on the the Ambassador program. And so certainly i'm gonna say ambassadors. and we're spending a lot of money, I guess, and it's general from those we're not currently spending cage of dollars other than lost revenue on the 1,100 spruce retail space that we're renting that we're not. We're that we're letting the down to build a partnership use. So that is a cajun contribution to the master program. And to me that's it. Kind of all about taking security is all about attractiveness to locals and for visitors that they need to feel safe

[129:11] It Garage is our Creek path. Well, I think that some of this stuff that i'll also assist that there's like a collaboration theme. I'm saying to collaboration, facilitated with other groups, because, yeah, we don't have control over everything. But there are folks who do it. So. understanding the work of housing and and services, or other agencies that are impacting what's going on? Downtown everything from feet forward as a nonprofit. That's you know. If providing services to the city that's trying to manage the impact of a lot of services that are happening downtown. Well, i'll. I'll mention like this is why I invited Evan. He's the chair of the downtown folder partnership, and he didn't know we existed. He doesn't know what we do. and we are them on the city side, and they he! He didn't even know we existed.

[130:01] He's new to the organization as well. I had to talk with him about his and knowledge at all. But, like you know, I I know there's like all these other groups that touch downtown. I don't know if we are on how many more it's exist at for their 4 ports of the downtown? It. Yeah. there's a there's a lot of layers, and each has its own specific role and responsibility. And what makes downtown work. And there, yeah, there isn't Necessarily the collaboration with the appointments or electives, and it's large, I mean staff with. I show up to to many of the board meetings and provide an update on the work of Kjid. But there's not necessarily so collaboration among the the Commissioners of the Board members. But we all have different roles. Obviously so. Some of the work would have to be separated. Is there any way to bring those people together right for at least part of

[131:10] you know, like so maybe there's some sort of annual annual summit, or something like that where there's a lot, especially for city. You know, public entity boards. There's a lot of behind. The scenes worked at least as to do when more than 2 of you are getting together, that that the bid does not, or the the dental or partnership doesn't have to do for the airport necessarily. So there are a lot of there. There's a lot of new ones, and so why it doesn't happen the more frequently. But it doesn't mean that it Shouldn't: so So I've also, you know, in yeah increased cooperation with the bid. Dvp. And Council engagement. Interestingly, there is an effort going on right now with the city to have a large multi-commissioned board meeting largely surrounding the the Folder Junction base to

[132:03] so I imagine you all, at least actually one of you is going to be invited to that. They're not inviting all orders and commissions, and if I think they're probably going to focus on the chair unless you want to nominate somebody else to first. If anyone wants to that, let me know I I try to reach out to all of you from time to time. But if any of you has interest in that, please speak to me so I know that it delegate. Yeah, I I think it's like I don't think there should be collaborative meetings just to meet like there needs to be it, and that that's been my a little bit. Well, there needs to be a point of meeting, not just to talk about what the next agenda is for the next meeting. That that to me it's not a goal. That's something like you could do over email everyone to say your calls, your your agenda items you don't need to meet like value of meeting. I think it needs to be something else than just being informed. Because then just read a packet, you know, for like that's your job.

[133:10] Provide this information on things that we have going on, and if there are no questions, and we want to focus more on substance and and development of the work for sure. valuable, and and repeated, and that and gender is really good conversation. Yeah. So like I know, Stephen, you you haven't wanted to know the Joint Commission meetings. I go to every single one I can, because I've I've learned amazing things about what's up with the hell and just how devastated they are right now. And yeah, yeah. it's not that i'm not interested in it. Well, I might be it, but it's just like I I think that if we can stay focused and a little bit more narrow on our impact, and then our goal is to like, have a definitive impact. I think we would all feel like our whole. It's more valuable if we could say like this year we did this. We produce this outcome. I think that I i'm getting so. That's what we want. But if we're all like scattered and

[134:12] just being informed, we're not going to feel that impact of our work real quick. So, going back up here to some of these thinking about the year term investments and transformation. I've let's spruce free spruce, straight surface lot, and over here as well. So I think the in the sense of the jurisdiction that that teach it does have in Dmc: there's a team here about. Okay, we have these assets. You have these finding mechanisms. What what do we want to do with the things that we have jurisdiction over, and thinking through? What is our investment? Long term investment? Planning 4 cages specifically knowing that that ties into a lot of work that parks and wreck was doing right now in the civic area, right? They have jurisdiction over Central Park. They have 8 million dollars allocated by the Ccrs tax

[135:08] to implement these 2 a Pacific area. It's not caged on parcels, but certainly interest and relevance for downtown. So that's an example of, you know, a connection that that need to be. I see that over here is a lot of activation. So we've got Civic Center, the Pearl Street Activation World street activation for downtown activations support Arts and Parks efforts on Thirteenth Street Corridor development. What's stepping from us It's a good. It's a good question. and well, and that again, is the role of you know, thinking about the role of Dmc. As an advisor to Council right where, if we were an from time and history, and there was not a lot of code, language, or polarized code, language, or ordinances that said, this is what

[136:07] we should be working on. It's a lot different than where we are now, where we have all these assets that we know we need to keep from falling into the ground. We don't want to lose that loose site on on that importance. But if there is a different direction that we want to go. Or if we just, if we're just gonna continue our or enabled strategy of purchasing parcels or redeveloping parcels that we own. we already have the tools in place that allows to do it as long as we determine that it's a priority, because we can't do everything all at once, so priority setting is, is t first right, because we're not going to develop Randolph and Bruce at the same time, and perhaps there will be. Maybe there's another opportunity that we don't know about yet. So there's there's everything that we know. There's everything that we know. We don't know.

[137:00] and then there's what we don't know that we don't know. and making sure that we have a we have space for that conversation before we determine exactly what we want to focus on our energy. I think he's breakfast, Susan, like what? What is you mean by downtown post, Covid recovery? What do you think is i'm recovered here, or what are you referring to. I think that it's tied into the office space kind of a lack of work or okay, it's part of that. I I feel like the last 3 years we've been through in crisis mode we have been in, and you have. So yeah, I feel like we've just been very reactionary, and this board has sort of had to sit in the back seat because there's so much going on that we've we've just had to be. I mean, obviously, we're providing input and and that sort of thing. But I feel like we're very reactionary right now. And now i'm getting past hope that in those issues that

[138:03] require reactionary responses. We could be more proactive. And that's where we need to focus. Where do we want to be proactive? What do we want to focus on. And how do we find those things? Yeah. And do you think I think what i'm noticing with Council? It's like last year past year? They cared about this because this is a big thing. Yeah. And now they're being reactionary to like. What is this older housing crisis? Generally speaking, of housing out of forecasting right and like reacting to that. Whereas you're wanting us transition into like, what is our vision? What can we do? This different innovative. like pushing like versus reacting to. So I wrote down a reactionary to engineering, and I think it's important to take a step back again. 50 years ago the decisions that were made to create cage. In the first place, if if folks were just reactionary in that time, then they would have in our property. Owners would have just torn down their neighboring property and put in a a service parking lot

[139:07] because those were trying to be visionary Back then they created this district that assumed all those parking liabilities, so that that personal owners weren't compelled to do that, so folks were recognizing the trends that were happening in the world, and wanting to make sure that Boulder did not succumb to those same trends. So, and I think that you know everything from plan for future self, driving vehicles like what you know, looking into the crystal ball. What what do we see coming, or what is? What's our? What are our biggest threats currently? And how do we need to evolve ourselves and our role in order to best respond and react to those trends that we see coming. And I guess I would ask from the Commissioners. Do we think we have strong cohesion and understanding what our our biggest threats right now say. 50 years ago it was probably much more obvious of what the challenges we were fixing is that we're very similar to other downtowns that are struggling

[140:07] today. I don't know that it's as clear because it's not like our downtown, is doing actually pretty well relative to many other downtowns. It doesn't mean that we don't have threats on the horiz. Y. I want to pause, for I don't know you well, and I haven't had a chance to go to coffee with you Anything I want to make sure that you just I. Wanna we're all talking really fast. Is there anything you want to say? No. I mean, you guys pit on most of the things that I think, working downtown I across, or hope to improve particularly just like keeping the engagement solid and all the different areas of our of our district. And since you you work at a bar and stuff like I have kids, I haven't gone to a. But I need to hang out with my parents if you think you, you and I live in a different it's it's it's much different than it was 10 years ago. Even

[141:07] I feel like there's a lot less night time activity than there used to be that can relate. I think a lot. It kind of like early evening, or like mostly most dinner, but like late dinner time to the end of the night, You know, as someone who goes out frequently. I agree with that dynamics, and it feels empty that you don't want to go out at night, and all the bar like that's a scene, and it's a fun. Scene. I do think that that is it, it certainly can be, can be tied into some of the safety concerns some of the concerns with dealing with homeless population or on house people. The more people that are down there experiencing that having those like

[142:00] later third places for them to be. I I I think a lot of the hmm catching more of this stuff in action. because there are people there that help solve some of the problems with like concerns about crime, especially so when you say catching stuff when it's having a like a crime happening, or like a harassment happening more like there's I don't know, maybe less opportunity for it. If there are more people. the more buzz the less. and and like some of that. you know, we can't dictate too much, because a lot of the a lot of the businesses decide when they close. You know things like that. But in a way like that, you know. if I just pick on that great street like. There was a daytime festival, and we need night time things, too. So it sounds like it. Is there a proposed priority around life, time, activation

[143:00] to our Activation Board Are this street performance? Well, it's cold now, so they're not out as much now, because it's cold. They're not even now as much as they used to be, and that hasn't I mean, that's kind of ded down Steve since code that's great. Yeah, our beloved on for the balloon man we know he was had a cancer diagnosis several years ago, and not seeing him. you know. Was there other topics that you wanted to? I just, you know. No, I mean your your voice is like, I said. You've You've hit on most of the things that like i'm concerned about, but primarily just figuring out how to engage a lot of those vacancies which are more unseen. You know their office spaces mostly, and are there creative ways to get around that.

[144:04] because that will bring more people down as well if they have to work, or absolutely. For you know one of those things that will bring more people there just by proxy. So that's what I so I have to, You know. I'm processing these conversations and thinking about, how can we help move in our way in our will. This staff? How can we help move Dmc's priorities ahead in the context of the other priorities of other Commissions and City council and the conversations we've been having, even though downtown streets is public spaces does not show up as an official. older city council priority. We know that it is a priority, and making sure that we include these activation

[145:03] thoughts in that work. It is a work. It is a work out, and we have on our our plans right now that we can help be influencing this thinking and that I know that we'll be able to show some progress for you all in that priority. Same thing with all the car we haven't talked about this one. We have a public art, and I like ours Face and Eleventh and Bruce. They can see. So we've actually talked a little bit about that. So partnering with arts and culture on more stuff and in cages of So how do we? How do we move that forward? And they're doing work in that area? So we should see the same progress in that. What else? Signed Question. The AR thing, you know, you could. Yeah, the Google analytics of how many hit that site with the QR codes and stuff. What was the you guys pleased with the Justin was here to share the the exact data. We were at least with the usage compared to the you know, versus the expense on the Pearl Street, Mall, and the number, I think we had over a 1,000 folks

[146:10] interact with the augmented reality on the bricks. We did not see as much, of course in the city area. So we had. We have these things, these installations, both downtown on the Pearl Street Mall, and in the civic area. But at the library and whatnot like. Do you have any stats on the top of your head? On that I could I could ping Terry. I guess. Would you say like that the have to sound somber, but that space is like. So under utilize, and like so sad it's almost unused public space, which is sad because the public isn't benefiting from it like. But is this something that we feel like? Well, I I really care about that. Do you think we would have a role in that, or should. Is that a distraction? I guess. I would say. You know, in the role of community vitality. If we think access for all

[147:14] district vitality. cultural vibrancy. In thinking about our budget, I mean, really the big influence you all do have is support of the budget that we develop on an annual basis to support priorities to support our pillars of the department. And so, if you think about activation of civic area, yeah, well, it's parks and rec jurisdiction similar to the Pearl Street call You're related to

[148:01] the 5 Year Vision Plan, which one of the big moves is make the Cree corridor a part of downtown. So the civic area is certainly a component to that. So what role are cages which should cage and resources play in activating space filling the you know the 5 Year Vision Plan. let's say, you know, creating may help like improving safety welcoming. I'd say that it's certainly it's it. Could it could be a priority right? We can only do so much. I'm. On an annual basis, but it's say, if you think about the the pillars of the department. Prior is that you've said it's in cajun civic areas within the boundaries of Cajun, so we could be doing. We could invest more. We could from public art like what one did around there break Well, and that's and what's challenging is we have, I mean we have a beautiful our installation, the 55 degree and the the flat iron reflective. Yeah.

[149:09] I'd say our challenge that we have what we're really good at is is the link stuff the city as a whole. We're good at building stuff, putting hard on it functional. Our what we aren't really good at is the activate I I think, about. We're really good at creating menus. We're not really good at booking. and that's actually a priority that we've been establishing in the public space. We're going to be asking council for resources specifically to the port of pop-up manager that is working in the community to say, hey, we need a calendar events for these specific spaces every weekend in the summer. and so that'll be activation. And then, if there isn't something that gets booked, we're gonna have tables and chairs and and cornhole and big chest pieces in Djanga, or whatever that if there is not a a a community activation, there is a soft activation, and resources need to be spent on that.

[150:07] If that's a priority. Yeah. And we think it is because it's one thing to build a beautiful thing. It's another thing to keep it active at the level that you need to be, or also like the connection which we get here a little bit like corridor like there's he's like disconnected spaces where. like I wash this really cool video on Fort Wayne, Indiana. And there are like art. They went really big with the like, so big. But it was this. It really worked because it was this connected art space. You could go like on the art walking tour downtown and, like it, was distinct design around. like not having these empty blocks, where, like no one's going to go there like they reactivated it through making it more of an experience. And I think that's part of our disconnect like you don't go to certain areas because there's just like vacant space.

[151:02] and it feels dead there. And so you just avoid that whole or like section. I think that's what Chip sounds like. He's trying to change that, and it's the same in space. Now off the table. That's not some like. What's the state of that? And how are we involved in the same Julian? I'm it's in for concept for view. So they have designs, and they're honey. Move forward with the designs they produce 20 years ago for that parcel, because Saint Julian, now it it timed out so drilling and loads it out. Correct. correct. So we don't really get any. Say well in the agreement for the St. Julian. We establish that the the conference space will be available to nonprofits a certain number of days a year at a discount on it. Right? So there is a civic use for the ballroom space that's planned for that parcel, and you you all know what i'm talking about.

[152:00] and Cajid owns the pedestrian level improvements from all through to canyon, and so there is some involvement in with you all in the approval of that project, and how what types of improvements they're going to make to the urban design and the pedestrian experience. Hello, hello, welcome! And maybe you can put some chairs around the center, too. And are we? You know the reason we have guest here is to hear from right? Yeah, we're so like at a certain point it's 2. Yeah, that's well, we're then that agenda. Item starts 11. Yup. So if you're ready to transition into from these things, so it's the work that it's it's starting a little lately and circle their top priority.

[153:04] Would that be a weird thing to do? I feel like I connected between, like what it what's Oh, this we need to come up with like the we do not want to to say for you like, I don't know where we are. We done with this? We will synthesize and and bring them to you all at our next meeting. for hopefully some looking for you 7. I invited you here because we did want to hear from you. You are. You are the chip tonight for today. It's it's he was planning on it.

[154:03] You have any. Where do you need help from the city to implement the 5 years in plan, or you have other thoughts based on where you see us heading kind of the idea of Stephanie saying here like, circle things here, you what what's hot? What's not? I mean one spot is Chris laid out, which I look at those is it's commerce. It's culture. It's connectivity like those right there, and to the extent that aged could or the Dmc. Could promote and help see the promote. This agenda accomplish its agenda within the downtown area. So there potentially could be. Okay, we would get access for all district by country cultural, vibrant state. And we. you know, one long term, one short one long term, would be determined to call short term in each one of those buckets. But using, See these framework to to potentially fit into that, so you might have a board, and then you might have either.

[155:04] At least I can focus on each thing, or using those 3 buckets to help focus short medium, long term priorities that fit on the reaction area to proactive scale. That's not fully formulated idea, but just sort of how can it be connected with what this city already has versus another structure on properly. So how can we help the city do what their goals are through? Kind of our some of our priorities? There's something to that. There's something where it's oftentimes like the city, do things for us. And this could be a do things with us, and it's really a collaboration between the city and and a connection to the community. And then on the other side with the DVD. It's a 1 billionkind of piece of that whole thing. So it's the city and the civilian sort of like potential collaboration as a whole, but wondering what interplay might be there.

[156:09] That's a really deep way to combine all this, and to take some thinking. because back to that question, what is the staff need? You know Again, you could build sort of a an an that helps execute. So it's for joining us offices. I appreciate it. And so right now we're going through my name's Don I the chair of the downtown Management commission. And so right now we're going through kind of what we're some of the the bigger picture things that we're wanting to target. And one of them that we got to talk to. You guys a lot about is that homelessness issues it wasn't in the scheme of things. It was one of the things, but it wasn't maybe the top on our list, because we don't have as much, say in it, but with the concept of a homeless day center.

[157:12] Where does the city not? Let me say this to Trump? Where do the offices? Okay, our help to deal with these types of issues down there. Well, so, first of all, I'm. Mike Keith, i'm the commander for what one? And oversee the ball unit and various other units. He's certainly just kind of brought him along because he actually oversees the moment. And our hot team and he's he's gonna have a lot more of the answers. I I necessarily will. But so the question is. what What do with officers need from your group when it comes to homelessness or kind of Can you kind of restate that. So maybe i'll go to the better. You're standing at your topics here. are you Public safety and kind of what you know the officers need to be doing. What are the topics?

[158:09] Your city council? We're different than them. So what are the things that we can do to help officers achieve their goals, and then I would then ladder that downtown then the second part of that is homelessness, that, too. Some examples, maybe that would help like Justin brought up. Oh, there's less people walking around at night. It feels in in the past that there's not as much, you know, like reason for people to be out in the 10 to 2 am. Hours, maybe not a like, and that thus, maybe cre produces this. you know, space for more crime to potentially happen. So are there certain things that we can do in terms of activation, or supporting certain projects that would then reduce the need for escalating to the police like. I think that's our. We want to be able to best use resources for

[159:05] your team on like what you guys want to do right like that's what your jobs are, and maybe there's some stuff we can be. A part of that reduces the need for police activity. Oh, 11 to 11. Okay. So I think your best resource at night. So my Mall officers work. They're They're here 7 days a week at least. 2 officers were assigned to them all 7 days. There's overlap on on Wednesdays, but that's going to be primarily a time hours. That works 6 to 4, and then, after 40'clock, it just goes out to general control. Control. Officers respond to them all for anything. What? You probably So I would say anything from like that. 10 to 2 you're talking about our swing shift. That would only be patrol officers who would respond to that. I don't have any insight as far as what's going on with them

[160:03] at at the night time hours that, as far as how you could best help them. But we can reach out and ask for that. I would say definitely, keep in touch with the ambassadors if they're here until 11, that you're gonna be your eyes and ears on the ball, what's going on because they're in tune with a lot of what's happening, and who the players are down there. So our patrol officers there when needed. They're not there exactly after after 40'clock they would be there when needed. Yes. Well, I need to think about how things have changed out to right When I started almost 20 years ago, right? The downtown area bar close. That was much more significant than it is today, right because you had a whole bunch of college age folks that were down there for bar clothes. You had the Maxes coming out, and you know, flooding in the street, flooding at the taxi stand so things that have changed that are, I think, a little bit of the make up downtown. I don't think it's as much

[161:03] of a draw for the college students right. A lot of the the parties and things are now up on the hill. They're not necessarily coming downtown as often you don't have the taxi stand anymore because of Uber and Lyft and all that. Right? So our close the bar closed the you know the bars that are still there and still get a lot of people that's over within and 15 min where it used to be. What at least an hour or 2 right and you'd have tons of people standing around where you'd have fights and all that. So those are all positives that we're not having those issues. But then, now there's less police presence because you don't have those issues right? So what I I think i'm understanding with some of the the consequences. The unattending UN unintended consequences of that are now we don't have as many business folks that are down there. So now we're seeing an increase in our homeless population that are maybe taking up

[162:02] camp or sleeping in some of the areas is that kind of the issue that we're talking about? That's what our repression is, but we also want to hear like, what is the actual outcome of that? You know it's one thing to see people. It's another thing to have issues because of it. and so are there. Are there more night time issues due to that. It doesn't seem to be, I mean I. So we're on the other side of the the day, right? We're working during the day. We have our watch logs that we read through. I don't feel like i'm seeing a lot of issues that are being reported that certainly something. We can go and talk to our night shift. Sergeants and kind of get their their take on it, but I think more so would be talking to the business owners. Are you guys coming into in the morning to open up? And we have these issues that we're now, either you know, showing people away, or or all. At least, I don't think we're getting a lot of reports on that. Your team gets a lot of reports of that. So I think I think that question is better suited for the business owners. So right now, you know, these are the Commissioners here.

[163:11] I I just want to also acknowledge the best, and try to somewhere in that. But they can't see who's here, so I think they would appreciate an introduction to who's in the room real quick. If you don't mind this great Well, my name is Don Coe, the chair of the downtown Management Commission. We have Susan Newsom. Justin, Calvin. Chris Jones. Everybody knows me pretty simple. Jeff Kessler with older police. It's a Why check community by Talent Smith. Remember community vitality and i'm chip do you folks online if you want to do this yourselves.

[164:01] Sure, I'm Lori call Assistant Vice Chancellor of Local Government and me engagement. It's to you. Thanks for having us Scott morning. Still, I guess Scott's Dumberg Associate Vice President here at the Boulder Chamber for economic vitality, and also serve as the Executive Director of the Boulder Economic Council. Thanks for having me great thanks, for so you're doing a great job of facilitating, and I don't need to take over. I don't know this is your meeting, and if any of you ever different directions or comments, please. But so I was targeting, you know, since the officers just walked in the the safety issues. And so chip, maybe just to kind of finish that part of it off. Where are you seeing? Not impressions of safety, but actual safety issues. Good good question. I think you know. I think it's. It's diverse and strange. I like. Lately we've had some gotten issues that that have been very scary, and and

[165:03] in the city and adjacent to downtown, some of them fortunately not turning into anything. But I think that's the big thing. I think the perception of safety is huge, and it's hard to. It's a little bit hard to parse. Safety issues and perception of safety. I feel like downtown our our issues with the unhoused are. There are some scary people yelling occasionally. It's sporadic, and we're usually able to when we're there, diffuse it, and help people, at least on the in the core. I think the night time thing. I have not experienced that as much, I think. Certainly activation is important when there's more people down in town. Feeling of safety is better. Our issues with nighttime. We clean up a lot of on it in the morning, frankly, and so I think the the night time issues still, even though the bars have change, that the culture over the years, we still have a lot of it in folks who come down, and

[166:04] we used to have open trash cans on the No, I don't. But we also yeah, which help. But I think you know, I think the big concern for safety that we have is honestly just. The day Times week. Days are still really soft. There's not as many people working downtown in a in activating downtown. So you know the that we do a number of things for public safety. We have enforcement. We have services, and we have activation. None of them are a complete sentence. We need to do all that. But activation is is hard. I mean, when things are happening, and there's lots of events and and people, whether it's activation through events or activation, through just having a diverse use of the downtown and lots of people. The safety issues become smaller.

[167:00] Usually generally, with that, the exception of those outliers there, there's always going to be things that happen, and that's why we have It's gonna be hopefully like we had to have Bray Street festival this weekend. But would it be helpful to have night time activation like up having partnering with the city on doing night time, oriented events to bring people down at a different time of day. Again. I I don't know that night time is our bigger issue in terms of I could be wrong. I spend a lot of time downtown. you know. I was going to say 24 h a day, but honestly, it's closer to 18, but I think night time is activated most of the time. Week days are slow, slower than weekends, but week day during the day is where we're missing more activation relative to what it used to be. and you know we have some establishments. People go downtown and and go to, you know, after like 1011, it slows down, or it changes the crab that's down there. But it's activated. So are we going to be able to do events that bring people downtown after 11? Probably not not after 11, but like host dinner, dinner, and

[168:08] in our post I mean, that's when we do a lot of our events. We do. It starts at 6. We do. Our festivals go into the evening. and you know part of it is it's a little bit tricky because we want to activate when it's not activated. But it's also not activated, because that's when people don't come down so like. Even so, I I don't know I I I think daytime is kind of where we're more concerned about trying to keep that vibrancy because that supports the lunch restaurants, and they they're chopping. And then we built the the from there cool. So that's Scott. I spoke to you a month ago about a pending 10 of today because we wanted to. Scott handles the full of economic council and kind of forecast and stuff like that, and we wanted to hear from you as to what's going on with office workers, and you know we can't make companies make people work. But what do you see? And what do you know? And Where are we going with? You know how that blend is changing downtown, and also from big, You know we're earlier today. We heard about

[169:08] big companies may be shrinking, and maybe those spaces being broken up into smaller places and more small than if I see raising here to Chris. Yeah, thanks, Chris. It's actually about the previous topic, so I I can just add my comments. Now, if that that works, I just want to kind of build on some of the safety concerns. We are hearing from the University that you we're hearing from parents quite frankly that students I have you, you know, and I would. I would build on Chips comments. Probably safety concerns. You know. I don't have a lot of clarity on whether or not you know the the safety risk is increased or not. That's where you have officers in the room. But I will say that we're hearing from parents more about campus adjacent areas. That kind of hit the the city. Some of that is downtown. Obviously some of that is the hill which I know isn't direct per view of this group, but you know just wanted to add that observation. I you know I was quite literally talking with our Chief of Police yesterday about

[170:15] that very topic, and so it's top of mind for me, and I just wanted to share with this group as well. Any of you have questions about any of No; but I think that adds to what we're talking about, a perception we we might not actually be seeing uptics and things, but the perception of Well, i'll tell you where I feel like we are seeing our tips is again people breaking into office buildings and finding places to go smoke that in the office we're seeing that a lot, you know. I don't know that we're seeing. You know the the folks who are our, you know the unhoused population is incredibly diverse. and you know we see a lot of folks who spend their days downtown, who sleep either at the shelter or in the in the creek, or who knows where else, and they spend their days downtown, and

[171:08] you know one out of every 20 of them has an incident during the day, but they're there, and there's a presence, and for many people that is a a safety issue. There are perception of safety issue. But I don't think that's changed drastically. I think what we have seen it. You guys might have, you know. counter opinion or support it, but I think we've seen a lot more people breaking in places to go smoke that, and a lot of it's during the day. I'm sure, probably at night, too. But we see that, and part of that is office spaces that Aren't activated like they were. There's not eyes like it's easier to do that. And consequences of doing that Are not that terrible? So would you say that there is this dynamic where maybe the previous prime existed. But it was less notable because there was more people around, so like the space was also more activated

[172:01] like if you're on like, if you're on like a street right? And I've noticed this one. Sometimes I walk down the Pearl Street ball, and there's like one person there, and that person happens to be yelling. Your perception is like they get murdered. Well, it's, I may be some fear, but also of this like perception of decline when that's not really the case, right? So it's because if there were a lot of people around, maybe you'd notice it, but you'd also notice a vibrancy. So you're like distracted by the vibrant in a good way, right? It's a normal dynamics of being that the type of drugs has changed drastically in the last 5 years that that people are experiencing, and and I think you know that we have seen an increase of. You know the economy has changed drastically here. So we're seeing more people on housed, you know, as a as a by product. So I think it's a number of things. It's hard to pinpoint. But yeah, I think activation like I said, I think enforcement it. We need to continue enforcement. We need to figure out how to provide services for people who can, and we need to activate spaces. And so it's not just one. But I think you're right, like if there's one person who's having a big issue

[173:15] out of 5 people on the block. It's different than one person having an issue when there's 500 people on the block, for sure experience is different. I so my question would be to do you think that we're not because I I know that we had a string of some burglaries that occurred a few months back, and we made an arrest on those. But if you feel like you're getting a lot of these break in, and maybe vacant office facilities. I don't know that we're getting those reports so they might be reporting it to you guys, but and I assume you encourage him to report to the police, but I and we'll look at the numbers. We can get back to. You guys on the numbers of it. But I don't think that we're seeing a huge uptick in reports. Not so that it's not happening. But if we don't know about it, then we're not taking reports, and we're not responding to it.

[174:07] I think a lot of reports are being made, but we should follow up. I know wonderful. Their plaza is getting hit a lot, and it's you know they're not vacant buildings. They're just under utilized. So there's a lot fewer people in the spaces, and and I know they have private security. I assume it's getting tracked through, but we should follow. I'm gonna go out on a limit of this. It don't think that it is, you know we do our, we do our weekly meetings, and these are part of the stats that we look at during these weekly meetings. But, yeah, we we should follow up, and we should follow up with the the tenants to say, You guys got to report these and you main thing that it's not that big of a deal we came in, and nothing really happened, or there's just some trash to clean up, but it it does help us to have an understanding of, and then that that drives where our resources go to. Right. So yeah, let's follow up because i'm being told it's a lot is okay, absolutely. So I can tell you. It's like the brand off center. That's where my office was.

[175:10] We were broken into once. Just it looks 2020, so it's not so much the that people are breaking in, although this guy like basically had to to get in. But it's more. I think it's a daily occurrence that they have to step over people in the elevators and hallways in the garage, you know, because there's that right to Jason, so it's super easy just to be in that stairwells that there's to the 100 units or are locked, and people are supposed to be able to get in there, but they still do so. I think it's more there it's not break ends, but it's a real fear, like if you're I mean it's still. It's still a crime there. So is it. Do you think that's just. It's going to security. Security deals with it, and as long as

[176:03] the the folks are compliant with security. It probably ends there. It would be my assumption. Yeah, I think, that they're they call the landlord. You should follow up. I know that, like absolutely like staff side of that building on camera and police report, so seems like there might be a disconnect of how it's getting. This is a great. We have half an hour left, and there's a other topics I want to cover, too. And so maybe at this point I will go to Scott, who has his hand up. And if there was something you wanted to talk about that, but really I was maybe changing the topic to moving from the crime aspect to activation. And how many people are there in the first place? So, Scott, what do you? What do you know right Well, Well, thanks, Don, and I appreciate the opportunity to talk. And and you know, as I've listened for the last, you know, almost a half hour. Now I it's important to understand, You know, I think we're facing a a a basic economic development situation. And so let me briefly describe what I think the situation is which is leading up to the previous conversation.

[177:08] Just some statistics. I think we're all familiar with the fact that employees now are demanding a hybrid work environments. The statistics that we show, or or that we we monitor, that shows anywhere from 20 to 30 of an employees. Time is is spent outside the office in a hybrid work environment, and that's if they're not 100% remote. And so that's current statistics. Now, the question we all have is whether or not that's going to stick going forward into the future. We can argue at Nauseum as to our personal opinions as to what that is the case. My personal opinion is that Yes, that will stick. I think the employees, it's going to be hard to unwind the remote and hybrid work culture that we have at at all stratos of of career. And so that's certainly happening. The interesting statistic is that currently because there's a high demand in the workforce for workforce, for workers. Employees have

[178:08] bit of power. And so they're requesting any time anywhere from 2 to 3 days a week to work when they apply for positions. So if you interview Ceos. That number preferably would be one, and is hopefully going down. And so we we see a gap. The the thought was that if we were going into a recession. Then the demand for work would would go up, and and a lot of that gap would come into closure. But given the fact where we are with the economy, we we don't necessarily see that. So the fact remains that there's a culture now post pandemic to work remotely. I would say, specific to the downtown district, as we all very well know, the second and third floor, and many of the buildings are occupied by tech workers. Traditional workers that almost immediately went 100% remote during the pandemic, but certainly have the wherewithal and the knowledge of of how to work remotely.

[179:04] And so that's the situation, and what we have talked about is what we call the office space dilemma, and that is to say, in downtown districts across the country. We're not, you know, unique to this phenomenon, but generally workers want to come down into the downtown districts because there's a lot of amenities that they they take advantage of so going out for coffee, having launched having a happy hour meeting with colleagues and such. and so as that vibrancy falls away, and the lack of workers come into the downtown districts. You start to see businesses that no longer can make a business case, and I think you know Chip and I've had conversations around. You know how we've seen a bit of that dynamic in the downtown district there. Current statistics that we can map. Dean Allen has done a report most recently at the end of last year, showing that we're approaching about a 30% vacancy rate in office spaces in the downtown district. That's what we can actually map as a function of available least space.

[180:03] But what we really talk about is the utilization rate, and that is probably something that we're, we're we're fighting more so than the vacancy rate, and that is to say, that how many workers you have compared to your occupancy level, or or when you would at you would be at, let's say, full strength of your offices, and I think that's really where where you know we're limited. So you know the challenges. We're we're facing problems that are existing around the country, and you know, certainly downtown. Denver is is no different. But I will say we have 2 things in front of us that are unique, and that is the homeless situation that we just talked about. And then I would also add the fact that we have a very long permitting process. And so building owners and those folks that are looking to recruit, or, you know, subdivide spaces or rapidly develop those spaces to attract new businesses. They're they're faced with what is a long permitting and and a protracted process there. So

[181:02] So so really, you know, in terms of what we just talked about. I think that's a that's an outcome of what is a fundamental economic development challenge that we're facing in the downtown district. And so the Boulder Economic Council, and obviously the Chamber is very active in trying to message and and and recast, if you will, the downtown district and boulder more generally as a a a place that is now, for a lot of reasons becoming relatively more affordable. But also there's a per there. There's available space to come into Boulder, where previously there there haven't been. So our message to attract and retain our businesses now is a is a focus area here. So just to just to make the point that the previous conversation I feel is a direct result of what is an economic development challenge that we're facing, compounded by the by, the homeless population, as well as the permitting situation currently. So with that i'll stop and and hopefully don that captures what you and I were speaking of, you know, prior to this meeting.

[182:04] Yeah, I I think I don't know Scott, if you're exposed to this as much, but like I work at a co-working space downtown. It's! Called Kilm. It is packed like it is vibrant. It is packed like almost too crowded. Everyone goes out to lunch like it's it's it's one of those spaces where I feel like could be replicated like there is demand over too much demand for maybe a more like a lot of small businesses, a lot of startups, a lot of people who don't who's sick of working from home they don't have. You can't afford to have a single family home with office space. and I think that is maybe the trend where things are conditioning, especially boulders. It'd be like working population. It's like they want a space to go downtown, but there aren't a lot of spaces where you could go and work for the day like there's just kind of a couple of coffee shops, so I I feel like people do want that space. I want it to be more flexible. This idea of the hot

[183:03] like the hot desk. It's a very popular thing now. It's just like i'll come in a couple of days a week work in a co-working space. Hey, my! My company pays for that, or i'll pay for that, and then we get this people downtown, and I guess i'm i'm seeing at least that trend where, if the the hot desk space is affordable enough. people will come like 3 3 days a week, 4 days a week come downtown, go out to lunch downtown, but I think those faces seem to be in demand versus this like I will pay monthly for this office space for my small business that doesn't financially make sense anymore. I need a more like flexible space. At least, that's what i'm saying, and I absolutely agree with you. You know I. I go in and out of kiln and galvanize, and some of the the you know the working spaces and the coffee shops. You know you. You see that vibrancy that's there. I would say that, you know there's probably a demand that's a business case, for you know building owners, you know, or or investors to to invest in that.

[184:05] You know I I I think, that can aug our can alleviate in part some of the the concerns that we have. But you, when you look at the total available rental space in in the downtown district, you know, and that being for the most part, let's say, under utilize either vacant or underutilized for the reasons I described. You know that's that's the dominant, you know, concern that I have, but I would I would love to see more. And I think long term we're going to see that just naturally evolve and hopefully that will then increase the the demand for amenities and and start to, You know, fuel, the retail sales, districts, and the bars and the restaurants and the coffee shots. I I think it came from the chamber. Wanted to. We Small business versus big business, and that's why both it has so many small businesses. But now we have Microsoft on Canyon, and we have Amazon across from the post office, and you know Twitter was here now. They're gone so like all of you know.

[185:06] because we were cool and unique. All the big businesses came. And now, like big bees, this is our demanding us. Those big businesses bought our small business. And yeah, but so now they're abandoning us. And so. you know, this goes back to hey? Your, you know, do eat one already. Focus on small businesses again the chipper plane, or Chris, do you any of you know how well you know stats of how many are working in places there are, and how they're doing, and right off the top of my head. I know Galvanize was really struggling for a while, and I think they're coming back, and it seems to be doing better then a lot. We have a few, You know a lot of what we've seen like the office that I go for side of, but on Friday and Pearl lost a lot of tenets and that and then, yeah, a lot of people left for more flexible spaces. And they've been really kind of adapting to flexible work. It's

[186:08] it's not as attractive for the it's more expensive for the landlord to do that, and it's more uncertain for the and you know a lot of property owners play a little bit of a longer game, so I think we are starting to see now. Finally, after 3 years of a little bit of nervousness about like, what do we do? But I think there's you know the co-working spaces are are doing. Okay. I think kilm is an outlier, and partly because there's more accessible parking over there, and there's other issues today, but I they seem like they're doing well relative to a lot of the other working spaces. We just send out a survey couple of days ago to office users downtown, trying to glean a lot of data about when people are coming down. How often they come down what they're they anticipate over the next year, and you know part of that is informing we've been having a lot of conversation. Scott and I and others.

[187:02] and I have been on our board about how do we? How do we respond to the office space issue? And you know part of it is, try to make it fun downtown as much as we can during the day, which is a resource question. And how do we? You know, how do we do? We shift more money in marketing to companies? It it it's hard to know right now, because you can market somebody something they don't watch right, but a lot of the restaurants, and like even the most, they're all in the West like more West. And so even with it, work like this stuff on the East End, like people go to the same 3 places that are like right there in that, like block radius. And so i'm just curious about if we don't even. I don't really want to walk more than 5 blocks. you know, during my lunch hour, and it's interesting to see. Maybe if there is a shift more towards developing on the East End, and just

[188:01] because there is more space to park there, I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing people to have lunch, because so I think it's a little bit of how we and that Justin again. I wanna make sure that you get your voice heard, and if you have any questions or anything like that. so does Industrious has 2 beautiful floors in Colorado building, and then what used for us bank at 15, and Canyon is now expansive, and that's a big, a working space. Are they taking over that whole building? Because, like the bank is now gone, and thanks for working on the backside. Is it all turning to co-working now? I I remember when I go in they had most of the first floor, and then there was even the upstairs Section 2. So i'm assuming, yes, that they've been taken over the teller of the vault area as well, because they're definitely not a bank there. Yeah.

[189:05] Interesting. I wonder what's going on there? We we won in the basement of the Siena Building. I'm not sure if that's still there or not, they're at Bruce and Broadway in the design district I saw there's some new newer ones, or once I haven't seen I'm actually reaching out to superstar because they left out of a design district. And then we talked about. renamed the district. Yeah, because and after they said they were there for the development of the place at quicker. and then following also, we lost a brandy and Jose from the candy shop they moved over to. But anyway, this is something that I have the building across the street from the liquor market property, and all throughout planning board and city council. They were saying how they were there to build housing for people working downtown when they're presenting to Council on stuff like that. And then they all me, because I have the property across the street, and they're okay. We want to put a timeline's camera on your building to shoot the progress of our building because we're gonna have all these college kids moving in, and we want to have a documentation of this.

[190:13] And I was like, oh, that's interesting. When you were finding Board of Council. You said you weren't doing that, even though every other is so. There's a student housing, and on your students work downtown. He never called me after that. Oddly enough, when I called him on it, that he had a different story from me privately than publicly is there. So there's gonna be a lot more college kids right? There is what's coming. There are other topics that you want to talk through here with the people here, you know. Do I I've kind of shifted it to kind of for us to get listening time. But do you all want? Have questions for them, or do you want to go back to like, how? What are we gonna do with this or Chris? Do you have other directions from us? At this point? Too?

[191:04] Well, I actually had a question for Lori not to go back to the first topic. But one thing that I would like to explore in the conversation around what you know what we want to do for downtown and changing, you know, being more visionary than reactionary and understanding the challenges that you is facing. not just in safety. But still we're all you know what is. What's the culture of the the college community moving, or we know that there's a lot of conversation right now, and Lori and I have been talking about activations. particularly around seeing football. I mentioned that earlier. I guess i'm curious on the safety front from a CEO perspective and a Pd. Perspective. Are there challenges that you're seeing and and trends that you're seeing in the House party culture on University Hill. And is there a role that downtown could play in helping to shift? If there is something that that you are seeing or transl that you think are might up, being headed in the right direction. That downtown could be influential in creating alternatives

[192:13] for that demographic. because there you there's been the same conversation with the University of commercial area is how and these commercial spaces be the the safer alternative to late night activity compared to whatever it is. Students are doing this. Thanks, Chris. So I I guess i'll jump in and and you covered a lot of territory, so i'll i'll. I'll raise a few points, and then we can circle back on what I missed. So you know we for for those who aren't aware we do have a new football coach, and so we are expecting a filled fsome field which Hasn't happened consistently in a few years. This this tone certainly is familiar with what that looks like.

[193:01] but you know, every time we see a a spike in the attendance, the dynamic shift a little. So I do think we have kind of a visitor culture that we need to get ready for collectively. I think downtown is going to absolutely have. you know, a lot more visitors on football weekends than have in years past, and so that's one kind of target audience or population that we're expecting. And those folks will, you know they'll be lost, and they'll be trying to figure out parking, and they'll be not knowing where to go to eat. And you know I I think we're expecting to see a lot of folks from kind of the the Metro corridor, who are maybe not seeing you fans. maybe not affiliated with boulder in any way but our football fans and our D on Sanders fans. So that's a dimension that I I don't think Welder has seen in in quite a while. So that's one set of opportunities, and you know i'm going to lead into this just a little bit more, Chris, and and lift up the fact that we have had some challenges quite frankly with members of

[194:10] the community, the CEO community, as well as visitors with diverse backgrounds, who haven't been as welcomed in boulder as they might be. And so I think there's some probably education opportunities, you know, downtown and throughout the community to kind of recognize that the profile visitors might look a little bit different to circle back and kind of comments around students and and the culture around that. We have announced that we're building a we're. We're building out the the graduate and family housing area and your nineteenth and marine across from Boulder High. And so kind of when you're when you're looking at long term planning you, it. It it's years out at this point, but that will impact downtown. Certainly. That's you know, just a few blocks

[195:05] from downtown. And so I think you're gonna see a a a more mature. We're we're graduate. Students are particularly eager for housing options and housing solutions in town. And so I think you're gonna see that population more eager to to go downtown. I've I've mentioned this to to Chip and and a little bit to Chris and passing. But there, aren't a lot of grocery options. you know, both downtown as well as on the hill, and in that corridor. And so when you're kind of thinking about the overall visioning in in the fact that a. Although there, you know, some of the most Casey restaurants and the nation along downtown there, it is a bit of a food desert, you know. That might be something for you to have on your radar as well. and then you know some of you know that I I I spent my C college years on Pearl Street until we hours of the morning. And so there is a little bit of a shift there.

[196:03] I I I there is a little bit of a chef from from those days. Now. I think the same population doesn't tend to go down trying to stay down town to the extent that they used to the extent that I used to. And so you know something to consider. You know I I that isn't an ask for you to to serve the the student population, because there needs to be a fit, obviously. But I think there might be an opportunity, because if you've been up to the hill recently. There are fewer offerings for students up on the hill as well, and so getting them into, you know, to build on Christmas language around. You know kind of safer public places, you know. I I think, that that's an aspirational call that we all share. Thanks. Sorry. Dynamic. Well, I think it's interesting. I mean, I think we've got a neighborhood impact team. They work a lot with obviously the students. They're They're basically work up the University Hill area. They work a lot with to you, and there's a lot of programs that they'll coordinate, together with on alternatives to go to house parties, for instance, Friday for Saint Patty's day. They're going to have the bed if each part.

[197:22] So you know, and initially it's like. Oh, wait a second. We really want to do something up on the hill, but it sounds like it's a good program, I believe it's called Fire Side chat, or something like that firefight. That's what it's called. But having those alternatives to for students as opposed to just well, there's nothing to do. So we're gonna go wander the hill and then we're gonna go into this house party or that house party. I think that with the downtown drinking or the the bars in downtown, I mean, if if good students of age are going to go and drink, and they're going to bars, and they can be served responsibly, that I think that's a win as opposed to. They're just up at house parties and drinking into their blackout trump. So I don't know what that looks like, exactly, and how you would. What kind of programs that you would want to start up to encourage folks down there. But quite honestly, it it felt to me years ago, and correct me if i'm wrong if you had a different take on it. But it it almost

[198:27] like the direction the downtown is going was more to discourage students from coming down to go to the bars at night, and the pardon that was my impression. But that's just me looking from the outside, and I don't know if anybody else agrees with that. Or or maybe that's just what do you think that I mean? I would definitely agree with that? There was a pretty big shake up with liquor and enforcement. Let's say, 9 9 to 10 years ago. I feel like

[199:00] there was a lot of punishment for. or some restaurants kind of existing to serve alcohol. And when, like you're saying, I think having a save serve, environment is probably better for the binge drinking culture. Then letting them just down. It's on their own, you know, at a house party. So there wasn't a lot of collaboration, I think, with the especially the late night places back. Then, when that was happening, I know the goal was to kind of curb binge drinking, but I feel like a lot of like, for example, Beer Garden used to be a late night spot that would say daytime restaurant only a few days a week, and part of that, I think, was because it was kind of some to operate within those parameters. And that's one last thing for people to do downtown at night, you know. Place like that turning into a strictly daytime restaurant.

[200:04] And so basically I I agree. Would you? So you said you felt like there was almost punishment for these punishment coming from. Well, I know that, like I think every business got shot down for a period of time. You know the of a lot violations, liquor violation, which you know may or may not have really been. It's bad, it's they might have been punished for, or the punishment might been worse for some of those places. It might have been right on target for for a few of them, for sure. But there was definitely a crisp in the You know, the Colorado Restaurant Association, and that everyone felt that pressure of just like on edge. We had to be less hospitable through

[201:02] to our clientele, to the people trying to use those spaces, and it's certainly gotten better since. But I don't know that late 9 in particular is recovered fully from that time period. and that could be. Why, we're seeing that difference. Make up like Lori said She used to spend a lot more time downtown, and I They like anecdotally seeing less activity downtown late night. It's important to note the loss of the wall risk, which had a cabaret license which there are very, very few. So that was, and I I heard you like the spilling out at night. That was typically on all that the doing in the attic and the walrus, and that that era is behind us. Yeah, even you know oasis and potters and pearls, and I mean, you know now i'm dating myself. But I there there used to be a lot of late night spots down there for sure.

[202:03] Blue note the cat accounts. I think I heard Larry say she wants to. I did not say that I did not say that I, in fact, Chris and Chip and others, have been part of task forces to to avoid future Mall crawls. I I am not going to come on on whether or not I actually attended an initial original Mall call or not. However. I know that it is problematic for downtown. So all of that to say. You know that that I I think, just need some great points about the downtown scene. And you know again, i'm not advocating for the business community downtown to solve what what students do after hours. I'm just here to kind of you know, help translate the landscape as I understand it well, it is really interesting to see the bigger picture of how some of these fall out, because, you know, we are the Fountain Management commission. But as we look at what the rest of the community is doing, what would

[203:04] Bernie Couches and Bryant and all this stuff, you know. Maybe there is a way that they can work together to to sell some of these chip. One last thing that I wanted to talk about yeah was, these are our parities, and I saw you kind of glancing at them, and one of them is our investment, planning and helping with the 5 Year plan, and I know you presented it to Council, and you get the of your once in a while. But you get your out here every other month, and are there things that we can do to facilitate communication between boards or groups or us to the you know, the yeah, the 4 words that you have anything like that that you need government's health. With that we can assist that. I appreciate the question. I I want to make sure. I understand what we're talking about investment planning. Are we talking about District

[204:03] Tj. And investment? Are we talking about downtown broadly in infrastructure? What do you mean down Broadway? When I think of the 5 years I am. Yeah, I'm. In my question. I'm: I following the 5 Year Plan. It's not just Pearl Street. It's the alleys and connecting to the creek, and you know both, you know. Yeah, everything that the plan has. Yeah, I appreciate that. I mean, I think, in terms of investment, there's sort of hardware and software, and I'll, I'll start with hardware. And I think part of the what I would hope is that you know we did a lot of work with the vision plan, and I think it's a good document and points us in good direction. So as you're considering all the things you consider. Do it through the lens of the vision plan. How does this support the goals of connectivity with See you in the hill? How does it support yeah engagement on that. The sub districts, and you know all of the you know. Hopefully, you've had some time to to read through it. So I think part of it is using the the visual plan as a filter for you what your priorities are, and I think this is very aligned.

[205:02] You know, from what I see at first glance, you know. And then there's the software piece, that which in just making the analogy of programming, how do we? How do we continue, we're talking about a lot of activation and a lot of programming needed to implement all of these things. Yeah, I spend the morning in the downtown streets as public space. I know you guys talked about that as well. Conversation. That's going to take a lot of resources for programming. The daytime activity during the week is something that needs. We need to invest in in a lot of ways to bring people back downtown during the day. One of the ways we can do. That is more activation, more programming during the day. And appropriately, we know we don't want to do big footprint events that close streets, but we want to be able to do things that are fun and exciting periodically to keep the the buy of downtown. So I think, in in the investment, planning. investing into big stuff and kind of supporting big stuff, but also not losing side of the big stuff, costs money to operate and maintain. So how do we? How do we build that in? And I think the district can pay a play a big role in that already. Does that help a little bit. I'm going to be aware of time.

[206:17] Is that Can you answer your question at all? What are the risks that you see in the plan where? Hmm! The risks in the plan to executing the planning? A good question. I'm not really sure. I know how to answer that. What do you see as the risks, and executing the plan. I don't know the plan as well as you do inside and out. There's parts of it that I am just thrilled about, and I would love. But in a way I don't want to, you know. I grew up with the field of dreams, filled it, and they will come, and I know we're not having the people coming, and I don't want to build something, and it just doesn't get utilized. That's maybe my so I will save it a year. But that's not a risk. I will say this. Everything's relative compared to pre pandemic. There's parts of down the weekends, or just as busy. Generally. I think we'll see a very busy summer week days People Aren't coming

[207:15] relative to most other downtowns our size. We're killing right, so I think it's good to say there's national trends. There's economic trends there's you know. We we have been on our track in both. So for a long time before the pandemic, where long my and other places popping up and being really cool. So there's already sort of a a, an outward migration for a lot of communities. A lot of that relates to affordability a lot of that. So I think that people aren't coming out. That's qualified. They they are. and it's relative to what it used to be, but it's also relative to other places. We're doing pretty well in a lot of areas in terms of attracting people. We can do better, and there's more opportunities. And again I'll I'll just focus on our week days. We need to strengthen, and we need. I I think the risks are in the vision plan, taking these exciting ideas and putting energy in the wrong places. Right? I think there's there's

[208:13] we liked. We like the parts of downtown that we like, and we want to invest in more of that. We do need to grow downtown and invest in. I think that the Thirteenth Street corridor is such a great opportunity for connecting the city and growing downtown. I think the East End is an extraordinary opportunity. I think there's other ways to build on that. So one of the risks I see is missing the opportunities we have finite resources. So if we focus them on the places that are activated, for example, and the times that are activated without focusing on the Times basis that we need to spur activation. I think that's that's something I I worry about like taking the vision plan, and not really what the the looking at, the what, but losing side of the where and the Why. that makes sense.

[209:00] you know. I mean, affordability is huge, and there's opportunities. It would be under downtown to achieve some of those those ideas. But yeah. I want it so Scott has this. We're almost out of time. When Scott has his hand up. I want to make sure it's just. I can't hear you at Scott. Oh, can you hear me now? So, Chip, I appreciate your hardware software analogy. I'll use what I call vapor where I think there's an element to this, meaning that there's a messaging component, that boulder is open for business. and this is something that we've talked about that you know Previously we would recruit businesses into Boulder by virtue of the fact that we would put a 4 lease sign on the door right? And I think this this recognition and and messaging. That boulder is an amenable place to start businesses or to relocate your businesses, needs to be reinforced. And so we here at the Chamber, calling that business is vital, because I think anything that you know. Certainly what we've learned during the pandemic is that

[210:03] you know our economy is built on a lot of businesses that you know create the revenue that creates the culture that we all appreciate. And so. I think you know, addressing this idea in this next generation, if you will, or post pandemic phase, you know what is Boulder's position, and what messaging do we give to the businesses? Because, as Chip said. Getting people there in the daytime in many ways, is getting people to come back into the office and giving them a reason to come in when they naturally are gravitating to their downstairs basement offices in a given day. And so I think there's a there's a messaging component that goes along with both the hardware and the software great. Well, Chris, is there anything else we should cover? We do are basically done. I was gonna wrap up unless you had a certain kind of thing is our facilitator. Well, I feel like on the staff side. We've got a lot of good feedback that we needed from the commission, and these conversations that we'll synthesize into some language on priorities moving forward, or consideration of the next Dmc. Meeting, so

[211:10] that we do have reservations at the hungry toad, and as well as we join us for lunch if you have time, but no pressure. And but so yeah, it's, maybe a a join the treat I'll break and then walk over to I move, we adjourn. You are adjourned. Thank you for coming, everyone and thanks to, and then everyone.