March 12, 2025 — Design Advisory Board Regular Meeting

Transcript

Captions from City of Boulder YouTube recording.

[0:00] Cloud. Okay, go ahead. Okay. Great Hi, I'm Brendan Ash. I'm the chairperson for the Design Advisory Board for City of Boulder. and I'm calling this meeting to order, March 12, th 2025. We should do a roll call. Oh, yes, and if we can do a we can have the dad members introduce themselves for attendance and roll call. Tech center data. Harriet, again deb. Great. And then, Amanda, if you could run through some of the rules of decorum and the virtual meeting rules. Sure. Thank you.

[1:01] I don't see any members of the public here. I will go ahead and just do a quick run through of it, though, so that you guys are aware of these. Share my screen. All right. Thank you for joining us. The city has engaged with community members to co-create a vision for productive, meaningful, and inclusive civic conversations. This vision supports physical and emotional safety for community members, staff and board and commission members as well as democracy. For people of all ages, identities, lived experiences and political perspectives. For more information about this vision and the community engagement processes. You can visit our website. The following are examples of rules of decorum found in the Boulder Revised Code and other guidelines that support this vision. These will be upheld. During this meeting. all remarks and testimony shall be limited to matters related to city business. No participant shall make threats or use other forms of intimidation against any person.

[2:04] Obscenity, racial epithets, and other speech and behavior that disrupts or otherwise impedes the ability to conduct the meeting are prohibited. participants are required to identify themselves, using the name they are commonly known by, and individuals must display their whole name before being allowed to speak online. Since we are in a virtual zoom. The only audio testimony is permitted today. When we get to the public participation portion, we will ask to anybody any members of the public, if they wish to speak on any items not related to this. to the project tonight. And then again, when we get to the the project that is on the agenda this evening. We're in the Zoom Webinar format. So to do that you will use the raise hand function which can be found on the bottom toolbar.

[3:01] Oh, sorry. My slide skipped ahead. One more. This can also be found under reactions. And I don't see anybody on the phone, so I will end there and turn it back over to you. Brendan. Okay, great. The next item on our agenda is the approval of Min. The last meeting minutes, which was few months ago. 1st meeting with Harriet. So and only until now. So I would ask someone to motion to approve the meeting minutes from September 11, th 2024. Yeah, I do. Second. Second.

[4:02] Favor. Bye, bye. Let me. Okay, great. And then any interest in public participation. In the beginning of this meeting. Yeah, thanks, Brendan. I don't see any members of the public. I think only our applicant team is here, so we can go ahead and forego that section, for now. Great. And so then I'll go ahead and introduce today's discussion. Item, the project that we'll be focusing on tonight is Williams village development. It's on the southwest corner of Baseline and 30.th Great I can, if you'd like. I can just tee it up.

[5:01] My name is Chandler Vanscock. I'm the case manager in the Planning and Development Services Department for this case. just a little bit of background. This came in for Concept review last year and was referred to dab by City Council march 7, th 2024, almost a year ago, or just over a year ago. I guess. they're now in for Site review. They've been through one round of staff review and as we kind of outlined in the memo. you know. I think Staff at this point finds the the buildings and the site design are overall pretty consistent with the Site Review criteria. They're just a few areas where we found that it was either deficient or kind of partially consistent. And those are the areas we're looking for feedback on tonight. The proposal is to redevelop the site shown here at 2952 baseline road. with 5 new buildings, from 4 to 5 stories each. That would include a total of 412 dwelling units, 127 of those are intended to be student housing.

[6:09] And then there'd be a large ground floor retail component, which would actually increase the amount of commercial square footage on the site from, I think, 54,000, and change to about 60,000 square feet of commercial use. and that's really it for us with it. With that I'll turn it over to the applicant. They have a presentation prepared, and we'll give you a lot more details, and and then we can dive into the question and answer, and I'm happy to answer any questions. If anyone has anything, process, related or otherwise, for me. At this point. And I will bring this slide deck back up after the applicant presentation, or feel free to let me know if you'd like to see what we have here, too. Yeah. No. It's our joining us panelists. Here they come.

[7:12] And then. Seacat, but I do not hear her. Hi. No. I think there was a little jump when you went ahead and promoted me, so I I apologize. I might have missed the last minute or so of the presentation. And what you guys were discussing. I was just bringing it up for you, Kat. I just gave the the super basic overview of the project. Very broad overview location and. Wonderful. History. Awesome. Thanks, guys. Then I'm gonna go ahead and jump in. If that's okay. Yes, please. Trying to talk. So let me get this to show up here.

[8:20] Apologize. It's taking just a moment for my window to follow along. Thank you for promoting my work computer as well. So I can share from that screen. Okay? And if you wouldn't mind just letting me know when it shows up. That would be really helpful for me. I can see it. Okay, great. Thank you. I appreciate that. So my name is Katherine Vanderspeck. I'm with Coburn architecture, and we're here to discuss 2952, baseline. Thank you, Chandler. I heard the beginning of your intro. It's very helpful to have you run through

[9:13] So as an introduction to the site for those of you that may not know, and this may be, everybody knows, but the current site is situated between Baseline and 30th Street, and is bordered on the south and west sides by us. 36. The site's largely asphalt. There's a strip Mall on there. There's a hotel, there's a Mcdonald's. There's a baseline crossing project which has a little bit of retail. The site is largely disconnected from the surrounding context, so the pedestrian paths don't move through the bike paths don't move through anybody that's moving around this site is going to be doing so largely in back of house and alley spaces. It's not friendly to connecting that urban urban environment through. We do have commercial uses on the site, and it is a designated neighborhood center. We want to keep that aspect of this alive, but find a way to take this design from something that's not friendly to people, and is more friendly to cars and make it something that works for everybody.

[10:12] So when we're looking at this, we are taking pathways and connections from spaces around our site and trying to blend them and weave them through, and to take those pathways and connections into a center that turns into both the neighborhood centers. We know it in code, but a physical manifestation of that. So a space that feels good for gathering, that everybody's coming to that, that livens it up and makes it a safer environment for students, for bicyclists as well as keeping it usable and functional for those in a car. So our vision is a site that takes those connections and starts to use that to break down the mass of the site, to break down the available areas and to put buildings in places that make more sense. We're drawing those sidewalks and those pedestrian pathways through. We're drawing the bicyclists through continuing the multi-use paths that are around the site. And then, as we do that, we create a node in the middle, starts to hum with activity and become a gathering place for everybody

[11:07] where they can enjoy it, as well as bringing a bunch of residents to the site that are also going to be able to enjoy this space part of what we're looking at when we're doing this is yes, the connections. But also, how do we create that detail? How do we create spaces that are going to feel good for people to walk through? What's the materials like, what are the and what's the way finding? Look like? How are we announcing lobbies and entries? And you know this is where you go. This is maybe where you don't go. What we do end up with is a site that's full of buildings that only have 4 sides. There's no backup house here the back of house uses are trying to keep as minimal as possible. But really we wanted to avoid having spaces that weren't friendly. There's too much of this visible. It's got frontage on all sides that people are going to be interacting with. And it really was important to us that those frontages speak to the pedestrians that are moving through this environment and create functional space. This is a diagram that starts to talk to those connections a little bit. So you start to see where the student housing element is pulled through the site. And those desire lines that the students have right now, and how they move through, connect over into the larger urban network, both along the multi-use paths as well as pedestrian pathways. There's a crosswalk here over baseline that we've been working with the city to redevelop in a way that's going to make it really functional. It's going to create less accidents

[12:21] really supports the vision. 0 goals that we have at the city, but still functions really, really well, just as a user standpoint, these students aren't having to go out of their way. It's easy. They're not going to, you know. Skip it because it causes extra complications. It would be remiss to do a site plan without thinking about how cars are accessing it. But one of our goals is to kind of de-emphasize the cars that are coming through. So we do have access points. We've reduced them, or down at 4 from the 9 that we had originally, but we've made it really efficient. So the cars that are coming into site have an option pretty much immediately to get into a parking garage. Those parking garages are hidden within the buildings, and surrounded on all sides by retail, which does give pause for a moment for some of the sizes of buildings, but I think that when we talk later on about what those sizes look like and where they came from. It'll make a little bit more sense.

[13:11] The goal here is to not have you walking by a parking garage. Buildings feel friendly. The buildings are part of a pedestrian streetscape that speaks to people and less to cars. So we have entries. We have access points, but that's not the focus of the site. You don't end up with a big surface parking lot. You end up with spaces that you want to move through because we still want cars to be able to move through the site we do end up taking some of those zones especially. This is woundroof here at the south end of the site, as a low speed zone. So with the windroof we've we've kept the connection for the pedestrian to come in and through, and really highlighted that pathway, especially for the, you know, 8,000 students that are coming from the side of the site. highlighted that pathway out and made it functional for people and for the cars. Yes, the car has to move a little bit slower, but yes, they can still move through. It's just going to be a safer environment for everybody

[14:03] as part of that streetscape. We are looking at how the building frontages interact. Where can we plan spaces for people to gather? Where can we take the building and make moves and make adjustments, tweak materials, do things that are going to create a space that people get to interact with, you know. Is it more glazing like you see here we have a pedestrian pathway that runs through that splits the building so that you can keep that strong desire line, and it creates something really interesting with the architecture on some of these buildings. You see, there's colonnades and pilasters that start to pull the buildings into and out of. So you create interest and visual engagement. We've got spaces for people to sit at tables and chairs. There's benches like it's a it's an active environment that starts to use the building facade to create some of its own benches and some of its own visual interests. So it becomes something you want to interact with and move past. The transparency at the ground floor is much higher. We do have residences above, but we're trying to increase the amount of store frontage. As Chandler already mentioned, we're increasing the retail and commercial store frontages on these buildings by a little bit. Not a lot. It's doing really well as a neighborhood center, and

[15:09] the tenants and people that we've spoken to said that they think it's working. We did want to add a little bit more, but having that retail frontage along all of these pedestrian streets, so they can help with activating those spaces and creating a language of awnings and signage that starts to speak to what's going on became part of the fabric of what we were making. Excuse me. this is just another look at some of that pedestrian realm. Here along the roof we have buildings that have Clt and we have buildings that have metal panel, and we have brick, and we're using wood a lot to start to add some warmth. A lot of the materials that you're going to see. On the site are metal panel and brick buildings. We do have a couple of special cases that I'm going to talk a little bit more about later. But throughout we're weaving a tapestry that is similar materials. We're not creating a chaotic effect. It's the same thing, but done in slightly different ways. So you don't end up with a campus. You end up with a space that feels like. Maybe it grew a little bit more organically over a little bit more time. Not it was all plunked down at once.

[16:09] When we talk about this one roof we do have. The Clt buildings are located at either end of the wound roof here. This became a really big driver for our design. That connection between the student housing into and through the site, especially because so many of the tenants that are on this site have talked to us about staying. And a lot of those tenants are serving those students. We wanted this to be easy. We wanted it to feel really good. The nice thing about the wound roof is it allows for that pedestrian pathway to become as big as it needs to be. If we need a little bit more space. If we want more people moving through. If somebody wants to take their bike through, it's functional for all of those uses. But it's also very friendly for the people that are happening to be through the spot. So you have the ability to have small events, large events that can start to bleed through the wound roof and really activate and create an environment that people want to engage with. And this is just another view of that connection that runs through building A and ties us to Williams village, as it exists now, student housing

[17:05] and moving a little farther up that one roof. and then we come to talking about some of those public and communal spaces. So we are highlighting out some of the private roof decks. They're noted as private here only because we don't have a development partner, so we haven't confirmed with them. If they're going to be open to the public, I can tell you that in conversations these are open to all the people that live within this community, and there's conversations about if we can open it up to people from the public, and I don't have a solid answer on that, but it feels like the right move giving these spaces that you'll have excellent views of the flatirons. They start to look over the village square, these spaces start to become something that everybody gets to enjoy, and then you still have the communal realm that happens at the streetscape. And on all sides of these buildings, where people are starting to interact. And all along the street you have people moving into and out of those spaces. This is a view looking at that central area that we're calling a village square or a central gathering space tables, chairs serving all the retail, just creating a spot that everybody gets to use and enjoy. There's a variety of green spaces that are happening around the site. Those green spaces are a central gathering space like this one. We did have to make it a little bit wider, because we are going in for a height variance.

[18:22] So because of that, we've we've checked the width on this. We've made it a nice, gracious zone. That helps us as well because it makes it more functional for different types of events, and we have plans and diagrams that start to speak to how this can work for all of these different things. But the other green spaces around this site are oriented so that they maximize the views to the mountains so that we're giving everybody a chance to enjoy those we do have a lot of roof level spaces that are going to be open to residents as well as spaces along the ground floor that are open and that starts to break apart these buildings and give you direct views and pathways that move you through to the multi-use, connect you visually to boulder beyond this site.

[19:04] and really open it up. When we look at all of these spaces and all of these connections that we're drawing through the site, we really start to see some of these zones are much more visible than others. This is where we started to locate those Clt buildings, and this was done for a couple of reasons. One is that gives them something special at the end of this view. So when you look into these spaces, you see something that's interesting and different, there's a higher degree of transparency. There's wood on the building at night. These are going to be lit up like a lantern. It's going to look amazing. So when you, when you start to see those, it pulls you and it draws you through and creates a connection to the inside of the site for people that are on the outside. So it is inviting. And we've located those because of view quarters. But the nice thing that happened with that is that it starts to orient those special spaces at either end of the really major pedestrian zone, that central gathering space and the moonroof. and just to build off that a little bit as part of our efforts to make that space feel bigger and brighter and better. We started to look at where we erode the buildings, and the erosions that are happening on the building are happening more in spaces where they either start to break that mass down so that it's more friendly. I'm putting to places like along Baseline

[20:16] and along the frontages here, where we start to break it down towards the village square, so that we start to Peel building mass away in this place. That's going to make it more inviting for the people that are using this space. You know you don't have a big building overhang in the village center. You have a couple of staggered roof scapes instead. So it lets that space activate a little bit more, creates a dialogue between those upper levels and the lower levels. And doesn't block out a lot of light and air that you want to have in there. I'm gonna go into the buildings lightly and touch on these. And then I that finishes me up. And I'm happy to answer questions and talk through more of this, but I didn't want to get too deep. So stop me later, if you need to. for building a building a. When we started the design on this we put townhomes on the student housing side to try and draw that residential through, and did separate the building. To make that connection happening. There is a connection at the top. That's a pedestrian bridge. We did that for egress. But we really wanted you to read this dual building as a separate piece

[21:16] and the retail frontages on that extend around the pedestrian streets that are happening in in the site. You do get a very interesting pedestrian zone there with that building a Clt portion. This would be the only Clt residential building that we have in Boulder right now is this one in the other building, which I think is something that's really interesting, and starts to maybe create a dialogue where this is something that could happen more often, instead of it being reserved for office spaces and commercial uses. One thing that we wanted to touch on is the length of this portion of building, because we are reading this as 2 separate pieces, and because it was brought up in the comments that we got, it felt important to note that we are breaking this. Do we do end up with a section of building that's at 176 feet long.

[22:03] But even on that section of building we're using material changes and step backs in order to note this as a separate piece and try to break that building mass down to a much more pedestrian scale. And again, that large connection that runs through that does help these 2 very different languages read to separate buildings for building B, located here on the site. This is our largest building that we have. This is the building that's hiding the largest parking structure. This building has a frontage along Baseline, which is a fast moving street. It's housing our grocery store, and we would really like to keep this grocery store in place, because as a neighborhood center that felt really important to the team to make sure that that could stay so we've taken their needs into account and have met with them a number of times to try and get a plan figured out that works well for them and works well for our goals, which is to hide parking and to keep this retails frontage around this building very usable. As part of that, we start to break the mask down in other ways. So we're breaking the mass down on the upper levels to help this read as separate buildings. We're peeling some of those spaces off of the roof deck. And I wanted to highlight. This is an adjusted plan, and we're still working on tweaking this a little bit. But I wanted to give you an idea of the direction that we were going.

[23:17] So this is a rough outline of where the grocery and the garage are sitting. So we have a functional grocery store, and we've met with sprouts and discussed this. We're camouflaging as much as we can. The only entries are here and here for the grocery function. We're camouflaging as much as we can. This garage by wrapping it in retail and the residential access ways. And then we're using step backs and material changes to start to break the mass of the building down. So you don't read this as one large building, you read this as a brick building, this becomes a wood building, and this becomes another brick building, and you start start to speak to a mass. That's a little bit more people friendly. What this also does is it allows us to bring this slab down. So we had at the time of our site reviews in middle, about 6 feet in the air. This slab was one continuous slab along the baseline frontage, and having this break, allows us to step the slab down and keep everything at grade and make it a little bit more pedestrian friendly there as well.

[24:17] Building C is a very residential building on the upper levels. The ground floor is the majority of retail. There's not a lot of back of house space here, and we've kept the material palette very simple, still calling in that metal and that brick. It is meant to create a little bit of a transition from the smaller scale of the Mcdonald's nearby to the larger scale of the building. B, that we have adjacent the lobbies and entries across the site, and especially here, are called out very clearly, with a different material change to make that wayfinding really intuitive, especially with this building being largely retail on the ground floor. We wanted to make sure that that made a lot of sense and was really easy to locate and building D is our other Clt building this building again features that wood and lantern kind of language that happens around. It's going to be very warm and inviting at night as a contrast, and to set it apart. The other portion of this building is metal, and shows up as a kind of an element that is adjacent to, and almost part of. With the exception of this upper level, we start to get a really interesting mix.

[25:21] This puts this kind of jewel of the site really, along that entire village center zone, so that you start to see a lot of this and creates almost like a cup that is holding this center and kind of really defining the edge on it. Really nicely. Building, E is our student housing, focused building. So we have a lot of students that we're anticipating to be in this building, but the building scale we wanted to feel as 3 different buildings. So we've got different languages on each of these 3 parts and have broken it down in a way that starts to make that mass not read as one big thing, but several smaller things again with this pedestrian. Well, we're adding in warmer materials.

[26:01] we're using metal panels. We're using bricks. We're keeping the palette very simple where we are using these things. But we do give it enough contrast that you don't read it as one motion. There is a parking garage. It is concealed entirely within the building. So again, we're taking the focus off those vehicles and creating a pedestrian realm that doesn't focus on those. But instead focuses on bicyclists, people walking how it feels to move by the building. And just a couple more views of that, just to help visualize a little how we're starting to break that down, and how it does read as different buildings as you move around. And I think that's it for that, I do have a video. If you'd like me to go ahead and run through that. And I have additional slides. If there are questions that start to show elevations and show plans so we can get a little bit more into details. And hopefully, I can cover anything you guys want to talk about. So thank you. Appreciate it. Thank. Thank you, Catherine, and I don't know.

[27:03] Matthew and Harriet, if you would. You like to see the video now, or once we get enter into the discussion. If it's only a short one, it might make sense just to to watch it now quickly. It's a 2 min video, does that does that qualify? Okay, perfect. Great. Just a moment. Here. Okay. And just to Orient, we're looking at building B at the moment, and building C is coming up. We're still. I'm seeing your slides, not the video.

[28:00] Oh, I'm sorry. that's my apologies, but I'm glad I said something. I was just gonna let you watch it in silence, and it would have been us just sitting here. Okay, there we go. I see that that's changed. Now I apologize again for that. So as we come through, this is heading down Baseline, and this is building B on our left, that we've broken down into the different masses, and that is housing the grocery store and then building C is right in front of us, and we're going to head down the main access of the site, which is that Main Street frontage. And again there's retail happening on both sides and ahead of us we see building D, which has the Clt building in the metal panel, and we're walking past the village center, and my video is buffering. So please excuse me for that. Let's try that again.

[29:10] and we have building a on the left. We're looking at the clt portion of building a in front of us as we move down the one roof. This is that connection that runs straight through over to the Williams village student housing that exists right now for Cu. And now we're looking down 30.th We see the side of building A that has the townhome units that are pointed towards the student housing element. And we see building B ahead of us. and we're gonna head back down the street where again we have retail functions that are happening on both side of this and it's really viewed as a you know, pedestrian retail zone. So we have seat furniture we have seating built into the building that starts to pull in those materials a little bit. We're again walking by that central village area and heading towards the student housing.

[30:11] and we have the main entry to the student housing, building, the garage entry. And again, it's reading as separate spaces that do separate things, and the language there is really designed to kind of make it make it not feel like one large mass. and we head back to the multi-use path that's happening along again along 36. The elevated highway here shows up really nicely, I think, in this view, and shows that, you know, we're kind of very, very easy to get lost against this highway. So the mass of this building doesn't feel quite as great when you realize that there's a wall that's happening. So we have to respond to the pedestrian as they move along this path.

[31:04] And that should be the end of the video. And I don't know if it's appropriate. There were a couple of things that we were hoping to get some feedback on from your team. I don't know if that's appropriate to walk through now. Or if you guys would like to ask questions, maybe to clarify beforehand, and then we can talk through some of those other items. Yeah, I think that we can go ahead. Colonia, am I right that we can start introducing them? the the packet that from for planning and on the key issues that we're. Yeah. Right.

[32:00] We could do that. If there's any kind of particular clarifying questions that you you have right now. typically, we would take those and then start the discussion. But if there's not a lot of those, and there's some things that Coburn would like to also add on top of the key issues. Maybe they can be addressed together, so we might want to gather those, and then I can pull the slides for the key issues. And we can. We can then look at how you want to break the time up for the review. Yeah, let's let's get any clarifying questions from the board first.st Quick question. and we can table this if it if it's planned to be discussed in more detail. But just so, I I understand that some of these buildings are presented. Assuming there's a height modification. Is that correct, Connie? And if so, I'm just trying to understand the ramifications of like, what?

[33:06] What are the trade-offs for height? What are the, you know? Any anything that's basically because of the height is, you know, like a modification to the plan, or I know some of the massing reductions are probably answering some of that, but I'm just trying to get my head around like what are the required trade-offs for asking for additional height, modification. Chandler is here. He's the case manager for the project. He can talk a little bit. We do have some design ones in the criteria as far as the height, but I hopefully he can address any other policy direction on that. Yeah, I mean, that's that's The one we provided is kind of in in the Site Review criteria for buildings that are requesting high modifications. We have different considerations that we're supposed to

[34:02] utilize when we're deciding whether or not to approve a height modification. So some of those are just. It's. Yeah, overall length of buildings, long public rights of way, which I think we included in the memo as stuff we're looking for feedback on like overall size and width and usability of open space. That kind of thing, essentially. you know, just making sure that the the project is still a human scale design, even though the buildings are going up. But I mean the main, like trade off in terms of what we definitely ask the applicant, for when they ask for height, modification is really more related to inclusionary housing fees. So we do charge essentially extra inclusionary housing fees for any bonus floor area above the 3rd floor. So for 4th and 5th stories we charge. and I'm not sure what the exact percentage is. Bill probably knows or cat probably knows. But

[35:00] we basically charge extra. So they have to pay additional cash in lieu into our affordable housing fund. Okay, thanks for the context. Sure. And if if we don't have any other questions, we do have some public participation. I believe this evening. Piggybacking off of that Was there any? Is there inclusionary housing in in this project? I can't remember. So we don't have a development partner at this time. so we don't have any. There's no inclusionary asking planned at this point because we don't have anybody to kind of talk through with that. We're still conveying the idea and working with the family to try and get that through. Right and. Good cash in lieu. At this point. Well, it's it's. Sorry. Go ahead. Bill. Bill Holiday with Coburn architecture. You know, it's it's not a site review criteria. So it's not something that we figure out during the approval process is developed with the housing department. And that process really hasn't started very much with them. So as at the moment it's, you know, call it a very slight preference towards cash and lieu, but that hasn't been finalized at all.

[36:21] Yeah, yeah, I was just gonna say something similar. This Chandler Vanscock again. Just that we can't actually require onsite affordable housing. All the way up. They basically don't have to make the call as to whether they're going to provide on-site affordable housing or pay cash in lieu until the building permit process. Great was that it for all the board questions and I can open it up to public participation. Okay.

[37:00] so if you're joining us this this afternoon and watching. This is your opportunity to provide public testimony. You may do this by raising your hand. and if you're joining us on the phone. You can do that by pressing Star 9, you'll be given 3 min to speak. I'm not seeing a hand raised. Give it just another second for the opportunity. Okay, I don't think we have any public participation. Then. Did we have do? Did you see if you had one? Hi, Sophie. I see a person Mary's iphone in the list, but it doesn't look like they're raising their hand to participate. So we're gonna pass and. That's

[38:01] Yeah. Maybe they just want to watch. See how the presentation is. Great. So if we can jump into the key issues. Claudia, do you have the slide that we were? With the planning comments. Yeah, let me share this real quick. And can you all let me know if you can see that should be screen? Say, item 4, a, yeah, okay, great. So I put that we have the key issues, one per slide that the staff has. There are 5 key issues from staff, and then any additional ones at the board, or or the or the applicant would like to kind of have the board go over with them.

[39:01] Okay. Great. I I think in the interest of the timing on this conversation. I'd like to just quickly run. Run through the 4 issues and then get a feel from the rest of the board if they have any functional issues that they want to add. So the first, st as we see here, is this defining entries along the public public realm. And essentially, the conversation is about building B specifically on baseline and 30, th right on the corner, And having really the only entrance or only sort of permeability, into this building, being the very far northwest corner. which creates a a pretty long elevation without any engagement from street.

[40:07] The second issue would be the building mass forms and height, and that's the the fact that we have, you know, several buildings on this site. They are all roughly 55 feet in height, with with a fairly uniform like top parapet, a wall or flat roof, wall, line or height for all of the buildings. The 3rd issue would be balconies. I'm not sure that this is really it might be too early, for I think the for Dab to have the conversation about the balconies. It sounds like it's an issue that needs to be sort of tracked and followed through with through tech docs.

[41:04] No. but I think if you know, we can have a conversation about Gen. You know, balconies in general, and how they're engaging with the different buildings or or not. And then the 4th issue is the The elevations that are exceeding the 200 feet in length. That need to be broken up. There has to be broken up with certain criteria. There's the maybe you can help me out with this Kalani, but it's they need. They are meeting like one or 2 of the proposed criteria, and I can pull it up too. 2 parts to this last one. It's a overall building length. and it's in respect to building A and building E,

[42:00] and then the kind of part 2 of this is that building facades exceeding 120 feet. Use 2 of these 5 criteria to help break that mass up. So we've got a. We've got a couple of buildings here that are over the maximum length, and then one in particular, over a hundred 20 feet. Use one of these, and not 2 of these. Thank you. Yes, so I maybe I can bring it back to the to the board in terms of prioritizing. Do we want to go through the items as we've just discussed them? Or is there there one item in particular that stands out and might could require additional conversation or time.

[43:02] Yeah, Brendan, I think we could take them in order. My sense is that the longest discussion will be about these length length of facades that may or may not meet the criteria for variation. But I think the first, st the 1st item with regard to an entrance, maybe easier to address, to get things started. It's just my impression. Yeah. Stepping through them works for me. This one right here. Okay. Great. Is that the entrance to the the grocery store basically. It wasn't. The grocery store is the opposite end, right. No, this is the entry to the grocery store. You're correct. We've since edited this design, so it doesn't quite look the same as it does now. But when we submitted, this was where you came in. Yes.

[44:03] So is there an entrance on the corner of Baseline and 30.th So at the moment with the new design that we talked about briefly in that slideshow where we've adjusted, how the. Grocery. Is working. There is now an entry on the both the corner that you see here, as well as the corner of baseline and 30, th and there's an additional entry in the center where you see it recessed a little bit. And I believe, Catherine, you you can share at the same time, I'm sharing. Oh, okay. Tool 2 side by side screens. If it's helpful for the board, let us know. Sure. I do have that slide up. So if you, if it's helpful to flip over. we have the entry that's happening on the west side and entry on the east side to this retail. There's an entry that happens here in the center as well. And now there's also an entry on this side, and an entry on here.

[45:03] So just sorry! No. Just so. I understand that, so that the grocery footprint then does it span that entire frontage of baseline. It doesn't any longer. So we've updated that based on both the comments that we got from staff as well as conversations with sprouts. When we were talking through with them to get a footprint that looks much more functional for their use. And that's what you see here in this quick image. So you see, the green would be where this browse location would be, instead of along the entire front. Yeah, I don't see it. Unfortunately. I can see it on my end. Yeah. Maybe if I stop sharing. Yeah. Now I can see it. Now you can say, okay, it said. It's supposed to be only. Okay, so this is different than the this is a different ground floor and garage plan than what's in the packet for building. B.

[46:02] We wanted to show you that we've we've made changes and heard what you were saying, essentially, and updated. Okay? Cause. Part of my part of my questioning is 2 twofold. One is, I'm I think I'm seeing that the you know, somewhat substantial infrastructure for grocery loading is now tucked in into the interior of the development. That's correct. Yes. And then does the break between the grocery store and the retail that remains on the northeast corner. on the frontage of Baseline? Is there any sort of architectural break does that happen there on the facade, between the wood and the masonry, like at the 73 foot mark. So that masonry right now. Stops here. I think that we're still debating this design. But there's definitely plan to be a break where we have the. There's an entry, that is.

[47:09] and I apologize for trying to show you with a mouse on a screen. But there's an entry that happens here adjacent to the sprouts, and then adjacent to this retail. So there would be an additional entryway right here. Okay. So I guess my question then, is what I'm seeing in the facade where it says current view. The trees are kind of covering it up. But is there? I guess there's a logical identification of that entry off of baseline at the middle of the building as being associated with the grocery store. Is that correct? Yes, we would use similar language that we've used on the sides of the building. So we have an increased awning. You'll have bike parking that gets oriented there like some signage, things that will happen in order to show that that's entry and not just a continuation of the same wood language, just a little extra, detailing.

[48:13] It's let me just chime in. It's it's a little unfortunate that we're talking in theoreticals. I think you can see that this is a challenge right? Because you've got a direction from city council to say, Hey, save this grocery store, put it in the middle of this building and make it a great urban place. And then, you know, you guys are looking at saying, Well, where's my door? Every 50 feet, which we would always want to right. So how do you balance those things? And I think this. So it's. Change that Catherine showing is an attempt towards that. Like we can shrink the grocery store frontage on baseline, and that allows us to put a few doors on baseline, one in the middle for the, you know, residential and grocery entry, and then one on the end for this other space, and your thoughts on that would be awesome, because, you know, it's it's a challenge. It's not a thing to satisfy both of those requirements.

[49:00] Yeah, Bill, I'm just to wrap up my comments. So I don't want to be be too verbose. But I would say, my questioning is basically conceptually in favor of having more entrances, having more doors along that long length of street front because it gives it a natural scale. It gives it some interesting points to break up the what is a very long streetscape? So, although I'm not very articulate in what I'm saying exactly, I think my general support would be where we can get nice entrances and make important little stops along this long facade. I think that would be a positive improvement. That's all. Yeah, I'm when I when I think of sort of the

[50:01] a grocery store that has a lot of like great permeability, I I think of the the whole foods that's in the table mesa shopping center, where they have, you know, a couple of different entrances that you to access the the different areas or different programs. And one of them is sort of more of your traditional like entry into the produce. And then maybe the others more of an exit from checkout and then they have an additional entry into the cafe area. But I think it just. It allows easy access into different programs and different parts of the grocery. And I think that that could be potentially helpful on this. So if there's, you know a point of access from 30th or from baseline, as well as a point of access from the new William. I forget what we're calling it. Now. Carter way, I wonder if it would just

[51:04] be more engaging to to people that are both, you know. in vehicles that are approaching the site, and also the pedestrians that are have now parked. And or they're walking through that area that there's just easy access and multiple points of access. yeah, it. It just made me nervous, having sort of that one corner while while it's nice and monumental that having one at, you know. clear access point was, I think, a little bit tricky, and I I do have a question. so on this new, the revised plan. The Maroon is retail. Yes. Okay. So they're just like, kind of I just we've had this discussion on this board before. On on a project on Pearl Street, where you have you end up with a really narrow

[52:08] street front retail space and what? What could potentially like? What type of a retailer would be able to fill that space and be successful. I think that that corner on the north. east side, where you know where you're approaching it on baseline, driving west, or sitting at that stop line or stoplight on 30th and facing south. That's going to be your sort of jewel corner that you're seeing the site. I think most of the people are going to see the site for the 1st time right at that corner, and I just want to be sure that it is like engaging, and that there's an opportunity for enough depth and square footage for a retailer to be successful in that kind of sliver of space, and I know laying out, parking and laying out the parking garages. Is

[53:09] always a trick in getting the mechanical in there and getting the shaft, spaces and all, and I do understand that, and and sympathetic to it. But I I just am concerned about now how very narrow. Those retail spaces have become, both on the north and south. You need thoughts about what what a good depth would be like when you guys talked about it before. like what's pulled up. I mean, I I think the the project we were talking about before on Pearl Street they were proposing. That very narrow space. Be a restaurant. Sure. And it was. And then, because you have to have, because so much of the space is especially on that corner, it has to be storefront, or you know window, then where's the back of house? Where's the kitchen? Where's the circulation? Where's the bathrooms? Where you know? Where is some of that programming. And if.

[54:08] Right. The intention is to have a a restaurant go into the space like which one of those 3 spaces would you envision that happening. Those are good points. I think we'll have to lay some stuff out. you know, part of it. And you're gonna get to this in a later question. Part of it is trying to make the building as small as possible and still fit in a grocery store and garage, right? So, you know. Shrink that down so you don't have those big buildings and big streets? But those are good points. I think we'll have to lay some stuff out to understand that. Better. So my question is, this is, the yellow is also retail, or what's what's the yellow? So that's our residential access. So it's a stair, an elevator, a lobby, and then bike parking. Okay, got it, I think, my concern was similar to that of Brendan's. Is that that corner? And how.

[55:05] you know there's a lot of things that aren't great about strip malls, but the way that they're often in an L shape where they guide you into those you know shops in the corner, and encourage you to walk around them as opposed to buildings like this, which they kind of almost shed you off off the side of the building. is what I was just thinking of. This corner is like, if someone starts and like, Oh, this is the 1st time that I'm here. How do I know if I'm just exploring the area to go left or to go right? You know the grocery store really anchors? I think the other corner. It's a really key like you're here. There's a grocery store. This makes a lot of sense like you've kind of come with the maybe a bit more purpose. But if you're coming from this corner, being like, Oh, this is interesting. How do I, you know, sort of get around this quite large structure to understand that there is the town plaza and stuff in the back of it. And so that's what was kind of going through my mind looking at these elevations. Because, yeah, I understand that you're hiding the garage. And that's that's, you know, that's really cool, that we're not going to see that? I think that's that's awesome. But

[56:08] how do you activate people from this corner into your plaza, which is like, you know, basically, they have to walk quite a long way to get there, and they can't see it. I know that wasn't quite, quite the question that we were talking about. so I agree that you know with with Matthew that the more sort of entrances we have, the more people are encouraged to kind of come into this building. I think that that's better. Also, if you think about students as they flow back from campus and they hit the grocery store. you know. How do you. How do they kind of keep moving through this building, or how do they they get across to to Willville, or whatever? that's kind of interesting to me. Are they cutting through the garage? Because that's the shortest path? And then how do they interact with some of this other retail, or will they go back out the door and around.

[57:01] I don't know if I made a very definitive comment. There. that's that's what was going through my mind. Hi, Harriet, I think that that's a really good point. And you know, with, if someone is approaching and seeing this, that the northeast corner. What? What is? Gonna draw them in and want to? you know this is your moment to catch them and draw them in and want to want to explore what's happening on the interior of that of those other retail spaces. What's happening on the interior? you know, at the of the I love the word you guys are using in this the what are we calling the the pedestrian and vehicular road? What? Sorry? Say it again. A woo nerf. The one of yeah, I had to look that up. But I I'm it's my new favorite word. I did, too. The 1st time I heard it.

[58:02] I just. I'm so concerned that at. you know, unless you're a student living there, you know this corner is so key, like Harriet said that the grocery store is anchoring the other side, you know, approaching from the west. But what this corner is so key in terms of drawing, maybe a non resident or non cu student, or somebody, you know, into this this development and into this retail space. Just something to consider. No, for sure. Pat and I were talking about the other day, we're trying to say, Okay, you know, this building has 5 different types of users like, how does each one of them move through? And and I'm not sure we really were thinking about this corner like somebody approaching from this corner. What does that mean? So yeah, with the 1 billion flux, I think we have to figure out just exactly what you're talking about, like. what is the path of desire. And how do you move people where they should be, and all that sort of thing? Those are. Those are good comments.

[59:06] Don't wanna cross banner in the works completely or rich in the works with the the design. But if you think about like Mcgregor square down in Denver, and how they use that main intersection and corner where people approach, and they've actually split the building in 2 to provide a really clear line of sight into that main square of like, Hey, we want you to come in here. We're drawing you in and not. you know. It's just a. It's just a way really clear way finding, if, like, this is a public space, you know, you're not going around behind a building and wondering if you're actually in a in a private space. Yeah. Well, I I know you're not trying to throw a wrench in it, but like on the on the inside. We spent all this time trying to figure out like this way finding, like to really announce to people. This is how you get in the building. And this is how you get into the parking garage, and I think with this change, and putting the door in the middle of the baseline elevation, I think

[60:00] I think we weren't thinking about that so much, and we should have been so like, you know, even if so, you don't have a split through the building, maybe. But if you were to come here like there's a very clear and obvious door. That's the main door to the building. That's just just down the block a little bit. I think that's we should be bringing that wayfinding out here, too. Yeah, no. So it's a it's a long block to walk by like I drive by it every day, and certainly walking next to a building of this massing. You know. I guess some people may have a different opinion, but I think is an improvement to walking past the gas station and a bunch of empty parking as it exists today. So once you have a building right up into that public walkway now, it's an overall improvement. I think what I'm sort of responding to other comments about this particular section, as it relates to baseline

[61:01] and not to pick on the the Graphic at the bottom, because I understand it's in development. But one, for example, one thing that seems to be missing to me is like some kind of canopy or awning element. There's a lot of vertical there at the corner, and the the wood look inset has a certain appeal to it, but it feels like in a corner like this, where it really will be the you have 90% of the people who interact with this block will be sitting at a red light on 30th Street, ready to turn left or right onto Baseline. So I think, dressing up this corner. With respect to whatever sort of retail concept is in there. certain sort of retaily language, like a canopy or slight vestibule pushed in, or something to articulate that, I think would go a long way in anchoring that corner, and then you have more room along, Baseline, as you move west to.

[62:00] you know, properly. Address the grocery exits, and maybe a storefront and not the wood. Look that goes to the ground for the grocery store. Maybe there's a change of storefront patterning for that. But yeah, it feels like there's probably some accessorizing to do on this corner without like a wholesale like the massing is what it is, you know. Yeah, that that all resonates for sure. Thanks. Yeah. And Steven Eckert here, I'm sorry I joined late, I know. Can you guys hear me? Yeah, I just, I want to reiterate some of those comments. And one thing you know, just looking at the window pattern. I like the verticality, and you've got the the kind of vertical elements of columns kind of running up. I'd like to see the the window fenestration on the upper level be more vertical. They're kind of reading horizontal against the vertical.

[63:06] So maybe a little more traditionally vertical might be might be cool. Maybe they get longer and a little bit skinnier. Just kind of a picky thing. and and maybe you know, I think right now, obviously, this is just in development. Looking at that, the cornice at the top, you know you've got that kind of cap flashing. I think you're just showing right now. you know, and maybe that could be embellished a little bit on the corner. That might help that kind of pop that corner a little bit more. you know. That would just be some quick, you know little simple tweaks that I think could help. But obviously you don't. Wanna we're not talking about a traditional building here, that's. you know, got a stepped cornice or something, but I think a little thicker cap flashing might give it punch it a little bit more.

[64:03] But yeah, just kind of agree with everything else that people have said, too. Yes, even I like that, you know, bringing it, tying it into some of those corner buildings that are on like Pearl Street or. Yeah. Historic district that. Yeah. Have a step down, and maybe in the parapet, or have some some type, something to draw it. You know, we've mentioned a lot of suggestions for bringing more intention like to that corner at the ground level. But yeah, bring it all the way up to the roof. I like that. Yeah. This is great. We're we're taking notes on all this I love. When Dab is like a brainstorming session, it helps us for sure. Thank you. And and, as you know, like, there's a long way to go between now. And when we start CD, so all of this stuff. some of it. You know, we need to get into the Say Review packet because the Billings moving around and some of it, you know, we'll work on the details as we go. But this is this is super useful.

[65:07] Was the like the locations of buildings B and C. Are they sort of, you know, if you swapped them? Is that going to be complicated for roading. Is that why, they're sort of the building forms that they are just. I just assuming that's the case that I wanted to check. Why don't you grab that one. So swapping them would definitely do a number on the routing. Also. perhaps the what we have right now, and part of the reason that she is mass. The way that it is is to continue that pedestrian pathway straight south from the crosswalk. Yeah. So we're letting the Crosswalk drive a bit of that. And I'm just gonna head to a site plan which might help articulate a little bit. Oh, yeah, that. No, I'm I'm really familiar with the area. So that makes a lot. Oh, yeah. Perfect. Yeah. So that was part of what drove the the location for that north south leg of that street was connecting to that crosswalk, and that's part of the conversations that we've had with the city. So I don't think we I don't think switching them still gives us that same, you'd end up having to walk all the way around, and B is a larger building. The other piece was that C starts to step the mass a little bit from Mcdonald's that's happening to our West. And it's not putting a building the scale of B right?

[66:20] So we're trying to be a little bit more sensitive than neighbors. On one side we have these, you know, 80 foot tall towers. It's a little bit more friendly to to, but a larger mass of against those. Yeah. Got it cool. Okay, I'm gonna attempt bear with me on my the 1st summary of this. unless we have any further comments from from our board. And I just wanted to note for Amelia, our new Board secretary, that you're starting the summary for our meeting minutes.

[67:01] Thank you. Okay, so As the discussion pertaining to the entries connecting to the connecting the building to the public realm. We are generally all in favor of more entries, that that more entries is better. both for the the grocery retail space. And now that we've seen a revised layout of the grocery, and then the 3 additional retail spaces. That that as many sort of entries that that we can have for these spaces would be encouraged. and that we also encourage additional wayfinding on the exterior of this building. B on the baseline and 30th Street.

[68:07] and and emphasize in particular, emphasizing the north east corner of the building that can be called out with additional detailing both at the ground level and all the way up to the roof level massing. How did I do? And then, additionally, I'd like to just be sure that we touch on the Taking a second look at at the narrow retail space on the north east corner of the plan.

[69:06] Okay, great, I think if if we can, it would be great to move on to the next agenda item, or next item on our issues. Key issues, which is the building massing variety of which is the building massing. And essentially, it's taking the the site as a whole. looking at buildings A, BD, and E, I mean, I think. My screen for the key issue. Yeah, we can see your screen. Yeah, thank you. Or I can. And just, you know, looking at the site as a whole, the massing in its entirety. I know that we've there has been some carving away. And there's there's.

[70:04] I think, relief in elevation, but not necessarily as much maybe relief in like parapet or overall roof line. Height. That we can discuss as a board, and as for as a site in its entirety. I have a few general comments, maybe just to throw something on the table, see where it goes. But I think some of the step downs where the massing has been or the height massing has been pushed down where certain forms engage. I mean, there's a couple illustrated here on this very slide where you have the Clt building, and you have the Metal Panel building, taking on a different form and stepping down a floor. I think those are

[71:08] successful moves that are trying to achieve some of this variation in mass, I think. where it gets more difficult. And this is not particularly this project necessarily, but where you do have the very long facades that are uniform. Kind of like on baseline where you have the middle would look. Section, I think that's where it becomes more obvious that there aren't changes in height. It's just due to the length of those massings. So I guess my point being there is, I think I just want to acknowledge I do see a lot of successful eroding of the mass on the corners and stuff, and maybe just the attention in my mind. It is drawn to where they're those long facades are.

[72:02] or more uniform in height. Make sure understand that it that it's the the longer facades which we're going to be discussing here additionally in a minute. But those. That's where it seems particularly the the uniform height seems to stand out more. Yeah. And the observation is not much in the way of like providing solution. But I'm just. I'm trying to summarize what what stands out to me when I consider this comment. It's not that there aren't places that aren't working to provide that relief in the. you know, massing the height massing. I think it's just those longer stretches where you don't have any articulation. You have a uniform. Decide

[73:03] where it's it. It shows up more. I think there might be more of a variety in the detailing of cornices or parapets. Maybe that can happen. But you know, I think there are some areas that are actually working fine and and nicely, creating some variation in height. Yeah, I think I would agree. when I was thinking about, you know the site. And we've talked about how it's going to be predominantly. people accessing it on foot. And you know, on bicycles and hopefully, thinking about. You know their perspective and walking in amongst these buildings.

[74:03] I think we can be. Well, I find that I'm more forgiving with what's happening sort of above second, 3rd floor flaw when they step back, because you kind of don't interact with them. But it's breaking up potentially. Also. some of the facades along the base. I think, could could really help with that, because that's going to be what people are potentially going to perceive the most as opposed to. you know, seeing the tops so much so. I was flipping Matthew's comment, I think on its head. And being like from my perspective, I'm less worried about the parapets and all of that I'm thinking about, hey? And I agree. I like some of the little jewels you've put in there and the variation they provide. I think you know that Gray. when they step back. I get this worried? Because, yeah, you're not. You're not really seeing that people aren't. People don't look up as much. But thinking about how. if you are walking down against this really long facade. What is what is breaking up that perspective? Particularly, I think. in these alleyways, where it is going to be more foot traffic, maybe on that on that front facade where you're looking at, and you might be further back. Yes, and I really do agree with Matthew's perspective on, on. You know that whole, because you're seeing more of it as well. It's really stepping up. It's really long you're looking at from further away. Those would be the ones, I think

[75:23] yeah. would be more of a concern. And then the ones that are directly on that. That's where. But because I think you've done a really good job of shaping the way the buildings interact with that central square. So you don't have big chunks of facade there. So I think that to my perspective, that that works well. I just wanted to mention. If you want me to take this slide down so the applicant can show different views of this. We can do that. Yeah, it was alright for me, but.

[76:06] Yeah, I think also the Clt building. I probably want to acknowledge that one as well. I mean, I I think, part of the language of Clt. And having the clt sort of rafter extensions coming out like that's a building where the language of the building. having a uniform flat sort of lid on it is part of the construction logic. And so in those cases, I almost think you. you're getting away with it, emphasizing that uniform kind of plane. I think that's you know. That's nice when you see the building from the interior. And I, you know, because most of this, it seemed like the project really considered the the interaction with the buildings from the interior of the site. and not to pick on building B, but I think maybe building B is again just giving its long exposure to baseline is probably the area where this comment is

[77:09] most applicable in my mind, because you're just off the sidewalk off the street for 200 something feet, and you have less opportunities to to make those plays. But I actually think from the interior. There's a lot of depth and massing to the building. So I don't know if anyone else shares that perspective, but to me to concern more is probably along the when viewing out from the perimeter with a longer vantage than than you would have from the interior. Yeah, I would agree with that. Interesting. A lot of the comments that you guys are coming up with are similar or like in the same family as the comments of what we were talking about with building being in the entries and things like that. So, like Matthew, your comments about

[78:00] pumping up the entry and the awnings and the 1st floor stuff, you know. really reflect Harriet's comments, maybe about the same kind of thing in terms of massing. So it sounds like there's some common threads there that we should pull on. Huh! Yeah, I mean, I I think I think Harriet's right in saying that when when you have sort of that narrower corridor and you're you really are experiencing it. As you know, as a pedestrian, or a bike, or or in a car. But it's everything is is closer. So you really only gonna you're gonna experience more of that retail corridor as a from like the human scale. And I think that that it's been addressed. Really well in that that corridor, that the interior portion of the of the site. But I think that where where I see start seeing some troubles when you're coming.

[79:08] Approaching down 36, driving north, and you're seeing both boulder in this site for the very 1st time. I just get concerned that we're. You know you have the how the Apartment project that's to right to the south of the William Tap, William Village Towers, and then, you know, which is a pretty flat, uniform height, parapet height. Look! And then you're gonna be coming in and looking at the backside of buildings E and d, and it's it is, I think, some of the attention to like the base detail, and some of the horizontality that's been showing sort of on that interior corridor area, maybe needs to be brought to the exterior giving it just some relief and some variety. You know not as as sort of forgotten

[80:11] elevations that you're gonna be seeing from a higher level that you're not going to be seeing it from the pedestrian level, you know, unless you're on that very narrow multi-use path. But you're going to be seeing it on the off ramp or on 36, and you're going to be seeing you know that the roof line and the cornice and parapet line is going to be you know, more in view, and more evident, I think. from especially from from that perspective. And then I agree, if you once you start, get getting some breathing room and some, you know, a much wider street width for baseline that you you can kind of stand back, and you're going to be able to see the buildings in series and and then in their entirety. And then you're gonna see? Sort of this odd gap with the Mcdonald's and a very low Mcdonald's building with a flat parking lot, and then going back up into the the other retail space. Not part of this project, but

[81:18] I think just giving some some variety, maybe it particularly at the North Street, the Baseline Streetscape and the 30th streetscape. And and I mean basically the perimeter of the entire site. And, Steven. I I don't know if you're still on here. You still have any comments.

[82:01] I'm noticing steven is here. Oh, there we go! I think we just promoted. Think he had dropped off, so he. Can you guys hear me? Okay, sorry about that. Yes. no. I think I want just to add, I agree with everything you guys been saying one thing, I think a lot of the massing will be better and feel better when you get into materiality. A little bit more. You know, and even the colors that you're gonna eventually use, and things like that, I think very varying the like in and out colors or materiality on the facades will help the massing quite a bit, especially on the corner building. Yeah, I think this is all super helpful, because a lot of what you're talking about is baseline. And and, as you know, building B is pretty in flux right now. So as we work on it, this is this is really great. It's good comments.

[83:07] Keep in mind. I'll just add one last thing on this topic for myself is, I think, that when we look at the perspective from going north from the off ramp from 36 as you drive by at 50 miles an hour. I think that's building E up on that along that boundary. If I'm not mistaken. Yeah. I would just add that although there isn't a lot of variation in the height, I think there are enough sort of sawtooth massing pushbacks along that facade that that does in my mind. And there is a perspective in the packet that that illustrates, that I think it does alleviate some concerns about this lack of variation in height, because you have so many varied setbacks and angles on that sawtooth edge.

[84:10] So just want to add that I feel like there. That also is in perspective. One way of providing some height. Variation is just honestly just the perspective. From what you're seeing, the the massing changes. Before we move on. That said there might be an opportunity for some slight parapet staggering. Since that big building, E. Is supposed to read as 3 different massings. there might be a chance there to slightly vary what's happening at the parapet condition. Sorry, Harriet. No, I was just as you said that I was actually wondering. Do we have a perspective from the north west corner of the site. I'm just thinking of what like

[85:01] E and C look like when you're kind of looking from. say, the corner of the Mcdonald's parking lot, or just across the other side of the street. I only have in the video the perspective from there. Oh, okay, I'm gonna stop sharing so you can share. I have one view that it starts to address it, but it's missing a bit of the context from the buildings in front. I'm afraid. That's right. May may be a little bit less helpful. So this is that student housing, and I think this is the view. The buildings that are in front are right in front of it, but this is the view of that north portion directly abutted up against baseline crossing. and then this is the portion. That's when it steps back behind the Mcdonald's. Here.

[86:02] Okay, cool. So that bottom, right? One is building C, right? And you can see. This is, this is all building E. Oh, it's open. You're building a Oh, good! Don't think we have a building C from baseline in this package. Unfortunately, I do have it from the video. I think it's okay. I was just thinking about that long. longish length of building. C. That will also be like, you'll see that as one of the 1st things you come when you've hit the site from the from the West. So I guess just a note that our comments probably on. and you know, building B in the long. our facades would probably also apply to that, because you'll kind of see it over. The Mcdonald's given the relative height of the buildings. You will. Yes. Yeah. Well, when we started that building, we were like, Okay, that's the back. And then all of a sudden, we realized that's not a back at all.

[87:04] Yeah. Like the front of the building, so we had to like redo it with all these buildings at 4 fronts, which is pretty challenging. But you're right. I mean, that's very public face of the project. Yeah. yeah, no. I was exactly the same as you. I didn't think about it until about 2 seconds ago, when someone was commenting on seeing the the south side from the 36. Yeah. And I think building. You know, I'm looking at the elevations of building C in that I mean, I think it's a like. I think those elevations are an excellent transition at the scale of the building is smaller, 1st of all than the rest of them, but I think it's an excellent transition, especially from that like Lower Mcdonald's to the bigger building. B. It has. You know, it has a lot of the the ground floor retail is really varied and grounded and is different from the lighter. I think it's brick. Yeah, the lighter brick

[88:09] levels 2 and 3, and then it looks like it has some different treatment on the cornice, like maybe a solar shade type metal detailing. But I think it's regardless of it's there, there's enough. There's a lot of detail in there where it's a it's a really nice transition, I think, into like the bigger buildings and the rest of the site. Yeah. I like that one. But that's that's a lot easier, I think, when you're dealing with just a very small building. That's good to hear. Thank you. Yeah, we gotta. I gotta tell you that's really cool to hear. Because Kat and I sweated that because, like, you know, the Williams village towers are so massive, and the buildings to the west are much smaller and so trying to figure out that transition we spent a lot of time on. So I'm I'm it's really cool for us to hear that it's sort of working.

[89:08] Okay. Great. I'm gonna I'm gonna sum this up. Then. As best I can. So I think that that the comment so and I guess I'm I'm also to Amelia. I'm announcing my summary. Thank you. So as we're discussing the general massing of of all buildings, being around 55 feet with somewhat uniform roof lines and and parapet lines. that that. Generally, I think

[90:06] it does not necessarily need to be revisited or addressed when we're talking about the interior portion or the courtyard portion but could potentially be revisited when you're on the perimeter of the site and that it doesn't necessarily need to like the heights of the parapets, don't necessarily need to be varied, but could potentially, just visually look buried through like a change in material or a change in detailing. Yes.

[91:05] Matthew, am I addressing your? I mean, I could add, you know we could add in there that that there's there's enough like relief. But I think that that's. That's that sums it up. I mean, I just wanna you know. I would say we we emphasize vertical relief. You know where where building would be viewed from sort of long vantage lines. That's sort of the area that we need the most attention. Yeah, I feel like I could sum that up a little bit easier. Generally the roof lines can be addressed through

[92:06] material changes and and detailing and need to be particularly revisited on on the perimeter, where you have a longer distance vantage. Yeah. Sorry I was muted. So I think we're doing fairly well on time, but I I'd like to move on to the this balconies conversation and Can you see my my screen? It's showing me that it's not able. So I think, Catherine, if you can stop sharing on your end.

[93:00] Not sharing. I see your screen. Can you see it? The thing that's paused for some reason. Okay. Yeah, I see, key issues number 2. Alright! Let me stop. It's showing us presenter view. Let me see if I can do this again. You see that. Yes. Yes. Alright! Okay, so I'm not. I'm not a hundred percent sure, we need to spend really

[94:02] a lot or any time on this but I would like to open that opinion up to the rest of the board. And and I can summarize. It is basically saying that you know the bill. You know, Boulder has a requirement for the the particular attention to be paid to the balconies and integrating them into the buildings and the design and you know how they interface and making sure that there aren't the drip through flooring. And that, you know, materiality is is consistent with the rest of the building and then that they don't look like tacked on, or sort of hanging off the building. but you know we've seen

[95:02] we've seen a couple of Coburn Buildings in Boulder, and I think that they generally Coburn tends to address the the balcony integration well into their designs. Does building? E. The student housing? Does that building really have balconies at all? No. And that's a pro for programmatic reasons, right? Because it's student housing. You got it. And building B in the newish revision of the design. Are there any balconies facing Baseline. Yes, but they're set. So the facade on building B. I'm sorry I should just share.

[96:03] Oh, so that massing pushes back there. So there's like, add that relief. That's correct, but we've pushed them, asking back to kind of pull them off of baseline. So you're not sitting on a balcony right on baseline. That sounds really unpleasant. Yeah. yeah, that was the nature of my question. I was just wondering how where in the plane of the the building footprint did the did those balconies sit, and that sounds like a good move that there! There's some relief there. The thing is. The other thing is, I know you're probably not to this level of detail. But. are any of your visualizations showing like the railing material. Is it mostly opaic? Is it solid? Again? That's probably a design detail that isn't pertinent. But I'm just curious what the the thought is about the permeability of the balconies.

[97:00] I I can show you on that one. Yeah. So I don't think we have it quite figured out, but generally we're as a company pretty committed to the idea of giving people some some sort of privacy on their balconies, so you know, they may not be fully opaque, but if they're at least partially opaque, and people use a lot more. They feel a lot more comfortable on them. So you generally will see anything that we do have at least some sort of screening or opacity. So yeah, we just, we just don't want people to feel like they're on display. And that would be especially true along baseline. Yeah. yeah, that's It's always to me the the ones that seem less successful, or the projecting balconies that also just have a 4 inch spaced rail, you know, generic railing. Those always feel less substantial. Then the the railings that if they do project out and they're cantilevered out, there's some kind of more of a sense of enclosure. I feel like that always looks better, and probably from your comments.

[98:11] Seems sounds like you have a sense, they function better. So yeah, that that sort of satisfies my curiosity on that. I feel like. When we were reviewing the the Harvest House project, the new student housing there. The the conversation came up about that they were asked to maybe have the balcony rails be more transparent. And then somebody brought up a concern about students having, you know, storing all their like junk on there, using it as a big storage space and and putting their junk on their balconies, and they

[99:00] so that they have a really very strict policy about you know nothing is to be stored, you know of what can go on there, the balconies of the student housing and but you know, that was that was like a building management. perspective. That seemed like a lot of work. And I so I I mean, I think I, I would encourage a a higher level of opacity just for privacy, and also just hiding storage that could potentially be on. That's you know, where where you don't have sort of the general like property management group that is enforcing this. Nothing on the balconies. Policy. Yeah. Yeah. And I think when they're really transparent. And you just like, stick them on the outside the building like they're just bolted on. They. They look really cheesy and kind of cheap, and all that stuff, too, and if they have some opacity to them, you can start to use them as a design element because they you can make them read as a thing, you know. It's this interrupted thing that runs across the building. So there's some design everything you said, and there's some design reasons, and I'm sorry to speak up on this, but I feel pretty strongly about

[100:11] not putting people out on a fishbowl and on a on a public street. I think if if I were just to know 1st Harriet and Steven, do you have any comments. No, I don't think so. Everything else has been covered. so I I would say then in summary that but that the like, the the balconies and the materiality will be revisited. During tech, doc, doc, but that the dab.

[101:05] would, you know, agree with the applicant that that some level of opacity for the balcony rails is encouraged. Okay. And then I, our last item. we're moving on to the these larger buildings that have when we're talk, talking specifically about massing and building form. Some of the these buildings that are exceeding the 200 feet in length. Along any public right of way. Consideration. So part a of this would be just taking a quick look at building a which sits sort of on the south

[102:04] east corner of the site on its north elevation as well as the east elevation and then looking at building E on its south elevation. Do you? Would you like the applicant to display the that 30th Street elevation, since those are the 2 buildings that that particular elevation together rather than the screen that I have up. Yeah, I think it would be helpful to look at building A and you. and how. It's also how it's relating to the adjacent buildings. B and it's other like kind of corner re retail little jewel. I can stop sharing.

[103:01] That makes it easier to pull. Is this facade of building a. Has it been revised and redesigned since those comments were issued to include the break in the Clt building and the.

[104:00] Oh, Catherine, you're muted, I think. Thank you. I'm so sorry. So this is building A, and it looked like in the slide that Kalani had up. We, the image was of building. B. I just wanna make sure that we're talking about the right one. Building A is the one that does have the break in to answer your question, Matthew. The break has been in in the design, so I'm not sure if that was taken into account, as we initially into site, review this facades about 176 feet, so it is less than the 200 feet of this portion of the building. but it does connect on the upper levels. You can see the pedestrian bridge a bit here. Yeah. And we're still. And for the Board's purpose. You know the overall length of the building. We we it's marked as partially satisfied for both of building A and building B. The board may find that these breaks work fine in in that, and help to break down that kind of overall length.

[105:00] but we did have to mark that off. So I just wanted to put that in there, and that we count the full length of that building with the bridge connection in there. Okay, so sorry, Klein, just to clarify. So that metric is 250 feet or. It's too. The overall is the the requirement says the building does not exceed 200 feet in any length along a public right of way. So this kind of exterior street face 30, th and then also baseline but if the board looks at this and thinks, Okay, this is meeting, you know. Yeah. We've done a lot to modulate that length. It. It might be satisfactory from the Board's perspective. So there's no modifier in that guidance that's like. There we go! Except if there's a break for 20 feet. Yes. That's the sort. It's the whole development frontage, right. That's the whole footprint of that building, what we would classify as a actually in the in the building permit as one building. And so, yeah.

[106:10] Mean that that break makes me. I feel like it's 2 different buildings. And so I'm definitely on this elevation. I wouldn't say I'm overly concerned. About that length. especially with, you know, I really like what you've done with the the southern portion of it. It looks. It looks like a totally different building. And maybe because I'm a structural engineer. And I know it's actually gonna be designed like a different building. So it feels like a different one to me. I think this facade isn't terribly problematic. In my view, there's the obvious break. But I think even the 176 foot massing.

[107:00] you know, is using techniques that that are dividing, that basically into 3 different sections, which is successful. I mean, I would add, in a way, too, that's complementary to one another, and not in a way that creates like this. Yeah, jointed aesthetic. So in in my mind like this, this building A is using some very nice devices to satisfy the requirement, the intent. Maybe we'll look more at building B when we get a chance, but. Was there another elevation on this building we had to look at? Or was it just this one. It was all just in north elevation as well. Just on this particular building. It's just the 30th street. That's a public right away. Okay, just looking at that one. And then on building a you're looking at the 30th and the baseline elevation, those 2 links going to public right away.

[108:07] On building. BI think this one's building a. That's correct. Yep. Yeah. So it says in the packet, building a to look at the north and east. So is that a typo in the packet? Then that's got the buildings from. Catherine, is this building? B. This is building A, and the only public right away that we have on this building is this facade you already mentioned. We have the 30th Street and the Baseline. Yes, this is a typo. So it's just these 2 particular buildings along 30th and and baseline. There. We could take a look at the I think it's supposed to be building north elevation of building B.

[109:02] Sure, I think Steven had his hand raised to say something, or you too. Yeah, sorry. I'm having technical difficulties. Can you hear me. Yup! Yeah. Yeah. I just wanted to reiterate that. I yeah, I don't have any problem with the length of this building. I think that the 2 sections where it steps back. I don't know what that depth is. It looks like it's about 5 or 8 feet but that seems to me to satisfy that intention. I mean, I guess if you know as you get further, if there's any issues you could. I mean, I guess the color, it matches the same. The brick is the same color as on the outside, and maybe if it was a darker color. you know, it would push back, but you have the dark middle. so I'm not sure that that would matter so much. But I it clearly reads to me as 4 buildings along this block? Not 2 so.

[110:00] and I think that satisfies the intention before masses. I can go ahead and bring up building B that works zoom in over here. So this is the baseline frontage along this side, and this is the 30th Street frontage. This is our work in progress adjustments. You're out there on the current view at the bottom. So that stair core that's that's sitting on 30.th Is that correct? Yes.

[111:01] Is it Is it glass and open, or is it opaque? So at the original. In the original design there was a large glass portion that happened on that side, as you see, and then the material was like a metal panel that we had perforation in is to start to act like some of that wayfinding we were talking about in the new redesign, this piece actually becomes the same as the brick, and then this will end up having a wayfinding happening in this side of the building. Here again. This is an in progress model, but wanted to start having a conversation about something. That's what we're working on and not what we had done. That doesn't integrate that. So at 1st glance, when I'm looking at this, the east elevation you know, straight on it. It sort of it has some. It has some good rhythm, and it has some good detailing in it, but it doesn't have the same.

[112:01] It's not broken up in the same way, like the building a is. And I think, maybe some some like the way that you guys use the the different material breaks and you know how it's broken up to make it look like sort of 4 different buildings, I think, could be helpful on this building. Be east elevation, particularly when you have. you know, some of the, and also like the comments that I was making on building C, where you have that very distinct ground floor, retail materiality, and detailing that distinguished it from what was happening on the residential above, I think, is really successful. I think this. It's all pretty uniform in material, while it has good rhythm, like I said, but I just think it's perhaps to uniform and materiality, and

[113:03] could be broken up a little bit more like it is on building a. Or just to add to that Brendan, or like it's broken up on building B on the south, east, and north. I'm looking at the elevations in the packet, and this is the one facade on the east that doesn't enjoy some of that variation in massing like the from the street to the parapet. It's all very flat. and I imagine there could be some nice fine detailing if it's a masonry product or something that could help. But it just sort of reads as more uniform even as compared to its other 3 primary elevations in the stair.

[114:00] The elevator or stair vertical circulation tower, isn't quite. It's like a nice break, but it's not quite a feature that's substantial enough to create break in the overall rhythm of the facade. I mean, I love long facades that are like all the same. but but I think generally the public reaction to that is a little different than my personal reaction. So it seems like there's already a language employed on the other 3 elevations that maybe could inform some part of this east side, maybe even the southeast corner where it turns into the street to the interior. There could be some addressing of that that entry point as well. Sorry, Brendan. I just.

[115:00] Yeah, I was gonna say. On your good comments. Can you guys hear me? I was gonna say, some of it for me is like the again. You guys have just gotten into this. But the there's a lot of repetition of the windows like on the lower level, especially on that. I know we're not really talking about it. But the north elevation, you know, we have those almost like storefronts along the bottom. There could be that the brown middle section. Maybe those are a little bit different fenestration windows along there. you know, same as you're getting up, and the windows above might be able to create some of that modulation with changing the changing the windows. you know. So it reads as sort of 3 distinct buildings, let's say. just trying to think of easy ways. You might be able to do it.

[116:00] On that west elevation. What? What is happening at the ground floor is that in the middle is that there's just a big black band. Is that change now because of the new layout with the it has. That was the opening into the parking garage. And what you're seeing is a view plane that's not cut back quite far enough to hit where we need it to. So you're actually well, there it is, cut too far back, and it's in the middle of a wall, and that's why it reads as black. So that's an error on the elevation. Okay, yeah, that and that. And like, I said, I, I recognize that it's that grocery store footprint has has changed this elevation, too. But I I would like to see just the language that's used on that west elevation brought over to the East. I think it. I think it is broken up really? Well, both horizontally and and vertically, with the step back. So I think you have a balcony in there. Even if you can't add the this. The step back. This elevation in particular, has just

[117:13] the overall like roof line. Height is too uniform, and I think the elevation is too uniform. especially when you have such a different language happening on all all the other elevations going around the building. Does the facade change? Reflect the different retail spaces or change in use like, does that mimic it? Or is it okay? Cool. Yeah. So when you see the the wood is, the was when we can see this, the wood was start of starting to signify a lot of the retail. So you see it start to come in. And I'm just gonna zoom in here on some of these elements on the corners. And, of course, along the grocery store frontage. And now we've pulled it around as we start to edit.

[118:02] Awesome. So it just adds a little bit of warmth to those spaces that people are going to be moving into and out of same here. When you look at the south elevation in this largely retail street. we start to add that language in. Okay. yeah, I was just thinking back to our like discussion about wayfinding earlier. And you know, if there's something on the facade that really mimics like, well, this is shop one, and this is shop 2, and you know they're different spaces. So you've been to shop one. But you haven't seen shop 2, or whatever that might be. If there's a way to reflect that on the facade that might also provide some of that like breaking up or interest, but also also sort of had that multi-purpose of also helping with wayfinding. That's just my thought. But I agree. I do really like the the West elevation with the step, and if some of those elements were reflected in the the East elevation, I think that would that would, you know, work.

[119:08] I don't know if it would be helpful to look at that perspective. It reflects more of the what you guys are opposing. Yeah, I think, like, in every other elevation, that wood goes all the way to the roof. or to the yeah to the roof. I think that might help that facade, and I agree with Harriet. Some wayfinding would be great. Steven Steven, do you have a comment. I mean for me. I think it's really that corner. It's sort of, you know. It's like once they've resolved that corner.

[120:03] I think it's gonna help a lot, because that it's actually, I actually feel like this. the bend around the corner like that building feels a lot longer than even the 2 sides, even though it's you know, around the corner. you know. So I'd love to see that. you know as they progress it about it. I know it'd be difficult to have the slot the kind of the setback slots like they had in the other facade. But. I just even wonder if, like, for some of the shops for the entrances, it could be. Sit back in some way, and you know some sort of mini atrium, or, you know, provides ease for people. Because, you know, we look at these a lot in terms of wayfinding and people interacting the spaces with summer. But we also have some pretty brutal winter months. And how do we actually make these spaces really interesting and accessible and inviting for people when it's, you know.

[121:02] minus 10 degrees outside or something. So that corner as well. It's like we've got people waiting at the lights. What encourages them to run inside. If it's winter as well as if it's summer. it's just a just a thought on that. and also going back to, you know the elevation below. We've got the trees. Well, you know, once they're not there because there's no leaves on them because it's winter. How do? How does that facade look! And and is there still interest when those aren't? Aren't there. I mean, they're gonna be plastic trees, so they'll always. Oh, nice. Sweet. Yeah, no worries. We're spending extra for those. No, these are these are good comments. you know, like, you guys know, this buildings in flux. So it's really helpful. And I think you know, to piggyback on that, too, that now we have that yellow L in floor plan of of residential. And so, while we want somebody to to be drawn to that corner

[122:04] of the retail space, you know, there has to be some also programmatic distinction of like. you know, this is of privacy and of I I feel like we had the same discussion when we were doing the diagonal plaza, that where you know where you have retail, aviding right against residential, there. Is there a way to to distinguish? Oh. you know, making one space very inviting, you know, right adjacent to another space that is, needs to have some level of of privacy not yet. And these and these drawings don't currently match like the the image on the bottom right is shown with commercial wrapping. The corner, you know, and the yellow bar is shown differently than that. So we've got to make a decision and and kind of get everything coordinated so that those are.

[123:02] That's another opportunity to kind of address what you're talking about. But they're 2 different uses. How do you make them compatible. Yeah, that was my question. Is, there is there doorways like into these spaces that we're not seeing kind of in the, you know, because you don't know where they are yet. Yeah, I mean, I think that's the problem. It's sort of in flux. So I mean, we mock this up really fast on the bottom, and and there's no doors into it which makes it not very useful as a commercial space. Perfect. And the commercial space is going, you know, shown on the bottom one going 3 bays down 30, th and on the on the little plan and set. It's not shown doing that at all. So I think we've got to make some decisions and and get this coordinated. But you know we're we're sure you guys are sort of used to that process. So we figured we could kind of show you the cake being made. and then I will say that you know, the garage being on this side certainly limits our ability to modulate in and out, but it doesn't limit our ability to bring some of the other things you talked in, like the, you know, like the wood and changing materials, and that sort of thing can all be done. And there's there's some movement that can happen for sure. So.

[124:10] Hmm. You know, all of that stuff is is stuff we can explore. Yeah, I think it's also just worth thinking about that staircase. Yeah. That sort of yeah. The way it duts out sort of almost to the public might start. Mark them that beyond there is is private or residential, and and not their space. And so, just thinking about, how do we keep that whole facade open? If you know, the intent is that, hey? There's still some shops down here. You want to come here. You want to walk out of that corner and turn right. Go. Oh, you know that store. I wonder what that is. I want to walk down there, whereas that staircase kind of closes it off a little bit the way it protrudes. Yeah, that's true. Oof. So I'd I'd like to. You know, in the interest of time I'd like to integrate the the final comment which it

[125:03] and and go maybe go back to the the south elevation of building e then, if we can, just, I don't, wanna you know, be the dead horse here, I guess, is what I'm trying to say. That maybe we've in our comments in our previous comments. Up till now we've addressed this final issue of a building A on the well, it says, building a, but it's really building B on the east elevation. I think we've we've really just talked about that. You know. encouraging you guys, I know that this this design is in flux. And I would just reiterate, which is, you know basically my summary for the previous issue that you know while this is being redesigned, that that that you keep this criteria in mind in terms of

[126:02] roof forms and building heights, and the materiality and the scale and the tone and texture of that facade to help with the relief in design and knowing that it's it is in flux and in still in design. I think, is, is the most helpful comment we can make. Because I I you know we can. We can discuss an elevation that is already sort of void. unless the anybody else on the board has a has a different opinion about this particular comment. Continuing the conversation on the east facade and north facade of building. B,

[127:02] okay, I think then, Amelia, I'm gonna summarize building. B, we had a conversation about building A, but I think that that was just a a typo. And we all agree that building A is successful and then in, I think, in summary of building B the the 2 elevations that are on the public realm being the north elevation and the east elevation are, you know, in redesign. So the you know what things to consider while continuing the design or finishing the design would be just a additional wayfinding, additional detailing and human factor elements on the ground floor, maybe bringing in additional wood facade. Not just at that stair core area.

[128:12] and and then just the design rep resolution at the corner will help significantly on both the East and north elevations. and I think that that would also address yes, the the final stuff. Partially satisfied. Comment that we're seeing on this screen here. And then I think quickly. If if you guys don't mind, we'll talk about building E south elevation, and then we can wrap up this portion of the meeting.

[129:08] Yeah, if you want to reshare building, E, that south elevation again. I think I I cut your sharing. So while they did this, wrap up summary. Oh, they're okay. I think that we've we've somewhat addressed this elevation when we were talking about roof lines. I I think it it is. It is a very big and long building.

[130:05] but I agree when well, I guess it's it's technically a couple of buildings. But I agree with Matthew, and that. and that there's there's a lot of like toothing. And on that the floor plan, and a lot of relief and opportunity for you know that like Sun Lake corridor? a lot of opportunity for glazing. And I think it's it's reading a little too vertically uniform. maybe if there was some some way to to add some like horizontality to it, like you have done on building. D could be helpful.

[131:23] Yeah, I guess, for, like the building, a, this beside feels like multiple buildings to me. So yes, I don't not too worried about it from my perspective. I think this materiality change, this sit backs. And yeah, that doesn't read as one big, massive, solid block. So.

[132:01] Yeah, just my only observation. I don't. I don't know if this is necessary, or or-, or purposeful or fruitful. But 1 1 thing that the 3 sort of languages of building E do share is, they all seem to have a 1 story sort of plenth. where the where the 1st floor has some kind of base course, and it changes, and then the 4 floors above. and that seems to vary slightly with the elevation I'm seeing but I wonder for 2 reasons. if y'all had explored, maybe doing a 2 story plinth for 1, 1 of the reasons being that when you're coming off the off ramp, and you're you're higher than the actual ground plane.

[133:02] You don't really. You won't be able to perceive that there is a change in the building language at the ground plane. But if you brought that that plinth up one level. more scale to the pedestrian, to the vehicular perspective. You know that might help sort of break some of the uniformity, and I don't think it's terribly uniform. But there, there is a nice rhythm, but maybe that could be one thing, so that one of those building blocks has a little bit of a different datum than others. I know relative to the multi-purpose path. You may not want to bring that that datum up higher, but it seems like maybe the most southern block of buildings where you're coming off 36, you know there could be some variation there that I don't know if that's a solution, or desired or or not desired. But

[134:04] it's just one maybe opportunity. If if you know. if you need variation on that facade. I actually my my overriding observation, though not to contradict myself, is, there's already so much going on in the massing relative to the property line boundary, and you have 3 different aesthetics for each block of the the big building that I generally feel like there's an there's a lot of variety going on so like. I don't know that extra steps are really needed to address this particular comment, because there's already a nice, you know, sort of variety there. Any more variety might start being too much.

[135:03] You know, we that's a really interesting comment. We we did the one story plant sort of purposely, as you alluded to, because both that's sort of where the parking level is right. So we wanted to utilize a different construction method. But also because. you know, we spent a lot of time talking about how to jazz up bike paths and adjacencies and things like that, right? But I don't think we really drew any of them like with a 2 story base. And that's that's definitely something that's interesting. As we move forward, we might, we might explore that and just see what it looks like. It's an interesting comment, for sure. And I think on this building, E. Not. You can't see necessarily the Williams village that dorm towers the existing dorm towers, but it is kind of a a good nod to those.

[136:06] You know the vertical sliver of those windows that are in those towers. And I think it is. It's an interesting integration of the of a building kind of communicating with those towers that are existing sort of on the opposite side of that site. Stephen, do you have a comment on this building? E. South elevation. Seems like Steven might have dropped off again. I'm not seeing him in the list right now. Okay. Great. I'm going to then just summarize.

[137:02] the discussion on the building. E south elevation. It. It seems that Dab agrees that the this elevation is is the length of the elevation is less concerning because there's so much material change and variety in the in plane change and relief in the building. That it it, and also just the sawtoothing of the of the floor plan changes that it. It breaks up the elevation. Entirely. But a possible suggestion for consideration and would be to add or or to think about some type of a

[138:01] level 2 length or in, in maybe, in addition to the level one human scale detailing to add some type of a a base that can be seen from higher up on 36 And then, I think you know, I just would like to have everybody left here? Just give a a general summary and we used to do this sort of at the beginning of of the project. We would mention one thing that we liked about the project. But, I think that we can just give a general summary about the project and the review quickly, and then let you guys the presenters

[139:06] go And I I think as a whole that that this has been a controversial area in Boulder for sure. And I think that it's the site as a whole is been really well thought out, and I think it's successful. for sure as a whole. I'm excited to see it, how the retail can be on the ground floor, particularly on the interior path and area, if how that can be really invigorated, and I'm curious to see what retailers are going to be moving in there, and and hopefully that they'll be successful, because I know that the housing and the

[140:02] the apartment aspect of it is is going to be a success. Because I we're we just need more housing, more student housing in particular. but I overall, I think that it has been very successful. There's a huge diversity in design in all the different buildings. And I'm excited. See this happening. I can go next, and then I actually have to drop off. Sorry. I've got a hard stop at half past. But yeah, I live within walking distance of this site. So I'm I'm really excited. By what you guys are doing here. It's a lot nicer than the the asphalt. And I I love the way that you have made it pedestrian and no cycle focus, because that's fantastic. But you haven't ignored the fact that everyone still drives and there is the parking, but it's hidden, and it is really trying to. Hey, we are trying to make this site for the people. So I I really like that. I'm excited for this to go ahead.

[141:07] Yeah, with that, I'm probably gonna have to sign off. Is there anything else I just need to do from Brendan's perspective. I think Stephen's back. So we still have a quorum. And I need to check with you. In Harriet, about your availability. If you could. If you have any extra time. Okay, yeah, I I have to leave on the half half hour. But. Yeah, I think as long as we have a if as long as Steven's on, we have a form, we can wrap up the few things we have left on our agenda board agenda. Thanks, Harriet. Yeah, I'll just make my comments brief. 2 things. I'm sorry we couldn't spend more time on discussing the interior

[142:00] Wooner and pedestrian slash vehicular programming. I think that's amazing. You know, it's amazing. There's a lot to talk about there. I just regret we couldn't, out of my own curiosity, talk more about that. The second thing is, you didn't mention anything about how the Memorabilia from the Dark Horse is getting integrated into the project. That was a joke. But I am curious where the Dark horse is going, but I'm sure that you you can address that with planning board or something to a greater detail. But thanks for your time. I think it's a wonderful project. Yeah, I guess. Can you guys hear me? Yep. Alright cool, sorry for all my craziness. I seem to always have emergencies, and at these meetings at least it wasn't my cat getting killed like the last time. Just my daughter having met massive car stuff that I had to rescue her with.

[143:06] anyways, yeah, I think super exciting. I agree. You gotta get the dark horse in there somehow. Just take the whole inside and put it like in one of the commercial phase. It'll be kind of like yellow Deli. Right? You could just replicate that the dark horse again somewhere. yeah, I mean, I don't have a whole lot to say, I think you guys are on the right track, especially on the that one corner building, you know. That's not fully resolved yet I think you guys have confidential. Figure it out. Yeah, I I think it's gonna be cool. Great thank you. Are we? Can we let. Yes. Cover and go if they if you want to. Thank you so much for a great presentation as always, and for

[144:00] participating in the conversation with us tonight. Thank you all very much for the time and the comments. And you're welcome, of course, to stay on. Sorry. And I was hoping if well, Harriet's still here, because we have a training in April during our April meeting, and we need to know if your preference is to be in. You can eat one or the other. It's not. We can't do a hybrid virtual or in person, for the it's a equity inclusion training for government serve government services. I believe. You can do it either. Or we just wanna make sure that we set this up correctly and it'll be at the exact same time. We would normally have a regular board meeting. so to run 4 there they need an extra half an hour, so it'll be 4 to 6, 30. Kalani. That's our board meeting time next month or. Yes, you're adapted.

[145:00] No. During the Dab Board meeting time. Because we don't have a project. We'll do this. We're gonna conduct this training instead. And we just want to know if you would like to do it virtually or in person. Fun. I can do either, so I have no preference, but. Perfect. I kind of. I kind of vote in person, just because it would be nice. Yeah, worked. Correct you to be in person. Okay, we will. We will let the. There's Anna. Sylvia might be the trainer for this. We'll let her know, and then we have set aside. You'll get the the invitation to the training, and it'll be just the board there for the training with the with the city staff. There's I don't know if there'll be 2 city staff or just one person there, and Amelia will send out kind of the reservations. I believe we have a room booked in the Muni building, and you'll get some other information on where to park. And if you wanna you know, if you're gonna be taking your own car downtown.

[146:02] Cool. We don't have to do it in secret somewhere. Sorry. Bad joke! We just want. We just I wanna make sure that you guys. I'm just talking about the the environment we're in right now. Politically, we might have to do it in secret, so nobody knows. Yes, Steven, it's don't ask. Don't tell, please. Right? Yeah, exactly. Okay. So if you, that's great, and we'll let them know, because they, I believe that they prefer to do the training in person. But it's not always an option for everybody's schedule, so. Cool. Alright, and that will be your meeting for next month, and then I will let you know about other the other details myself, or Amelia will. and think that that's it, except for calendaring, and have not heard anything on you. Do have 3 dab referrals coming in. We're not sure when they're coming in. But over the course of the we'll know more.

[147:04] Okay. You'll you'll be tentatively looking at 3 different projects that are slated to come forward for the board. So that's it for calendar. Okay. Great thanks, guys, for sticking with me in my 1st run through on the. No, you did. Great. Yeah, trying to run this meeting. Yeah, that's a big project, too. Yeah, it's it's interesting trying to review and then and summarize the challenge. But it'll it'll be easier, maybe. Yeah, I'm just curious how you guys feel about setting sort of the priorities of the agenda. I think in the future, maybe we'll just set the order in which we discuss things and

[148:01] the timing and the agenda the day before in our pre planning meeting. I just think it it was. Take it took up a little more time, I think, than and it didn't seem to flow as well as I wanted, so I think maybe we'll just set the agenda, and the time allocation that we can strive for for future meetings. But trial. Yeah. Okay. Alright! Great. Well, thank you so much. I look forward to actually seeing you guys in person. Right. Our next April meeting. And look for some emails coming in in the next, I would say by Monday at the latest, for your April information and feel free to get in contact with us. If you have any questions.

[149:00] Awesome. All right. Thank you. I I just need to adjourn. But. Yeah. All right, meeting adjourned. Thank you. So. See you all.