May 19, 2025 — Water Resources Advisory Board Regular Meeting

Transcript

Captions from City of Boulder YouTube recording.

[0:00] I have moved on. Wait almost 5 min. Let's see, here's jump here, let's go here. Well. Your God. we would just have. Yeah, we'll just have to have them join in and pop up, since we can't see them. Okay. They can be seen on their screens. Yeah, you just can. You. Head of the table. If you really want to around. Mwh. Oh, yeah. Well. Stantec is.

[1:02] Good. I mean, it's I'm busy, but I'm. You deserve to get a lot of her projects and projects are gonna get screwed by. Yeah. bread and butter work with, because I work in a lot of Federal loan programs that's very popular with this administration. My railroad. Perfect. Projects. And so now I have it like that's not drop that in.

[2:05] Come over here. Yeah, exactly. It's changing. Generally. Feel awkward. Wheels. This is. Go ahead! Yeah. Very late. No depending on how. Yeah.

[3:07] Connected. Member, or something a little more. Know. people used to come early. That's just a number reporting for us today. And with Covid and everything should make a.

[4:05] 1 million. Yeah, it's like. A quarter mile east of there, on that service road. It was. We're going through that. Let's call the meeting to order. Monday, May 19.th

[5:04] Water Resources Advisory Board. 1st item on our agenda is the approval of the April. Meeting minutes. Did anybody have any thoughts or comments or changes on those. Nope. Okay, can we have some motions to approve and then remove. All in favor. Hi! Okay. And the next item is the public comment, do we have anybody that would like to comment tonight? I do not see anybody online. Now, although I did have somebody contact me earlier today who said that she would be online. And it's 6 0. 1. I'm gonna don't remember what the agenda says about, I think it's just

[6:03] it's so far No. Can we do anything else while we're waiting? If we need to wait. You do the batters, Joe? Or you see. Oh. So that we're not just sitting here. Or do you want to talk about the future schedule? Maybe get that out of the way. and that's the thing. What matters in the future schedule now? We used to sit. That's a great idea. 100. It matters. A couple of things just wanted to report out on one positive in terms of budget and investment, or on the operation side. We had. We've had several storms in the last few weeks, intense rainfalls and.

[7:05] We're hearing from our our maintenance team that deals with that when there are issues that they've been doing a lot of proactive maintenance and and focusing on that, we added some staff. The last few storms there haven't been any trouble, calls. Everything's running nicely. And so that was one of the themes of the comprehensive, flooding stormwater plan that Rab weighed in on back in 2023. I remember one of the public. These was. As well, and so as part of all that he had recommendations to. And then increase the size of the team there and hired those people. Previously we really only had the the staff to kind of

[8:04] do more of the hotspotting and troubleshooting when there are problems less of the proactive about that. And then the other thing I had under matters was just talking about meeting locations for the board meetings. We bounced around a little bit, I would say, over the years. The place that has been more the most consistent for the board meetings has been the Municipal Services Center, which is out of Pearl Parkway. Our dealerships are between Belmont and Pearl Parkway, just east of. What about hells? It's easier to park. There's there's just more space. For dinner and those kinds of things. The room for a while. During Covid we had a couple of years where we were always virtual when we met ever for a while. It's a nice place, but it's really small. Yeah.

[9:05] And we met for a few months of the Tate Building. This was a lot of competition for those rooms, and. I don't know. Feel for our facilities team that has to keep some of those old buildings. So the thought is to try the Msc. And I think you know, if you all sleep on that, and and have questions or concerns. We renew. Maybe talk about it before we finalize the meeting location. But that's our thought. So that's what I had for matters. And it's now? 6 0, 5, and I don't see how public and and so, while I'm at it, why don't I just hit on the future schedule? in June with the whole meeting will be dedicated to the capital improvement program during that month is when we really do the deepest dive into that tonight. You'll kind of get an overview of the utilities and the systems.

[10:06] June. We'll do a deeper dive. Talk about some of the specific projects with focus on rates and the Pro. The projects that are recommended for 2026. Then in July we'll come back and ask for a board recommendation to council on the capital improvement program and the rates hopefully. Having addressed any questions or comments you have add in May or June on that subject. and then we'll also have an information item, and our water resources team will present on water supply planning and the Boulder Valley comprehensive plan update that is underway so great and then. as is kind of worked out as our practice, likely, no meeting in August. So that's what I've got. Okay.

[11:02] okay, so we jump back to open comment and thank you. I will read some quick zoom guidance, and then we do have members of the public here. So Hello! My name is Joanna Plume. I'm serving as the technical host for this meeting. We'll start by sharing a few slides that give the virtual virtual meeting rules that we follow. These rules are in place to find a balance between transparency with the community members and security that minimizes disruptions. We will need a full name associated with each person's participation and open or public comment, and we cannot unmute you without it. Please let me know. I'll give you my text number here in just a second, if your name isn't currently displayed and I can update it for you. That text number you can reach me at or cell phone number is 3 0. 3, 8, 1, 7, 1, 7, 4, 2 members of the public may be unable to control the audio or video features. Video is limited to city officials, employees, and invited speakers only. I will unmute you when you're recognized to speak, and I'll call your name, and a 3 min timer will be displayed and start once you begin your comments. Thanks so much for your participation.

[12:13] I do see that we have Lynn Siegel here, and then, if others in the waiting room would also like to speak during open comment. Please go ahead and virtually raise your hand, and I will queue you up as well. Right. Hey! Thanks! Joanna! Should be able to speak now. Can you hear me? Can you hear me? Hang on now, just one second, Lynn. We wanna make sure that we can hear you. I know where a microphone is. Thanks for your helpful comments that there was an echo. Let's just make sure that we can hear you through. The speaker. One moment, please, Lynn, would you.

[13:03] Can you try speaking again. Yeah. It's the echo. Okay. Hang on just one second. I know it's. The issue with. Or you can put it on your phone right there. Am I getting more hanging up on Zoom? This is your oh, it's this sorry, Steve. I thought it was coming from your cell phone. But I didn't see that. Yeah, yeah, okay, okay, yeah. Did I talk again. It's not not quite yet. I think it's not going now. Well, it's a little delay. I'm at the Trident, because I left from the Malcolm X thing at the courthouse in between that and racing over to the water tour tonight the plant tour at 6 and 30.

[14:00] Yeah, thanks, Lynn. I appreciate that. I think if you. Go ahead and speak. We can hear you. Okay. And we're just gonna suffer through the deck up. Sorry. There's a echo on my voice, but I don't know. Okay, we can hear you clearly. Okay, yeah. Do. I have a timer? It is on screen and go ahead. Oh, it's up there. Okay, good. Thank you so much. Yes. My concern is now my water bill is up highest that it's ever been 97 and I know I got some kind of benefit right, Joanna. But the interesting thing now is with excel energy in it. If any of you are on board for for expiring the franchise, sign the petition by the 28th we need 3,400 signatures. And then we can have our independent like. We have our water, and you know the water flows, and it's great, and I can come down, and I can say, don't do, Cu South. It's not a good thing. It's you know. My brother's a water chemist. My name means water. My daughter's a water artist. Water is everything. We all know that. And Cu South is like water. Big time. I mean, we've already got so much going on with Cu, 2 Health Sciences Center. I think one of them is going to be quantum the quantum

[15:26] computing thing. But we have so much development here. We can't handle all this for the water and my bill, you know you might be able to amend me a little bit. But let me tell you what Excel is doing. For example, they were giving me through leap a supplement, and then the city of Boulder was telling me to turn my heat up, which I don't want to. I want to keep my heat low and just be able to pay my bill period. And

[16:00] instead I was given the supplement. But I wasn't told that it maxes out at $500. So I lost a thousand dollars of the supplement because I keep my heat at 54 degrees so effectively excel is punishing me for conserving energy for not using. You know, they want you to use electric. And it's I'm just saying this because it models. You know the water utility, and I trust our water utility. I'm mad that my bill is so high, but I'm trusting. I mean, you people are in a difficult position here, because, see you South, you should all strike. You should all say we won't advise City Council because we can't do our job, because, see, you South is going to undermine the ability of boulder to adequately supply its residents with water safely long term, and and can't handle that level of growth.

[17:01] So so please do what you can to to improve things, not to increase the stormwater. You know the impervious surface. There was supposed to be a a a ruling on Friday, but anyway but thanks thanks for listening. Thank you so much. Okay, thank you. Lynn. Okay, I don't see any others that want to speak. Okay, well, let's move straight into the main topic. Then on the capital improvement program. And I guess you guys are going to give a kind of a summary snapshot of things tonight for us to kind of think about, and then we'll get into more detail and in the June meeting. Right? that is, for sure. And the capital improvement

[18:01] program and the rates. Probably the biggest thing that the Board weighs in on each year. and of the systems that we have several 1 billion dollars worth of infrastructure has really good systems. But it's complex, I would think, as a board member. And what I've heard from board members as you go through your 5 year term. It might be like the second or or 3rd year before you really start the process. Like everything that's involved. Each year we do our best to try and take it in manageable chunks, and so in May we start with kind of an overview and a refresher on where we left off last year with with rates and what the projected cip was. And tonight you'll get a focus on kind of an overview of the finances that Steph thing, and then our principal financial analyst will cover. And then Chris Douglas, who's our senior engineering manager.

[19:04] we'll talk about the utilities of the cip for Chris's part tonight. Our hope was that it'll be a refresher for some of the Returning Board members and for the new just getting an overview of what the 3 utilities are, and then within those within each one of those utilities there are major systems and components and kind of a refresher on what those are. We use a simple for the talking purposes with the public and with the board. We use kind of a red, yellow, green. stop light designation. Things that are green or in good shape. Red is not not so good, and yellow is in between. So that's our our plan for tonight. We'll go through the presentation and segments, starting with finance. Then the thing it's water, utility, wastewater, utility and storm and flood, and try to stop after each one of those.

[20:03] so that you don't have to process all of it until you get to questions and feel free to stop us along the way. So I think we're good on on that definitely the agenda, and then we'll have some time at the very end for some discussion and questions on other things that pop up. you know, and feel free to chime in really, during the entire presentation as well. And I think now, Steph, we're handing it off to you. Good evening, board members. Thanks for being here tonight. I'm Steph Flingaman. I'm the Budget analyst for utilities. I've got a few slides here on utilities finances like person. Joe already mentioned. If you have any questions, feel free to interrupt me. So just wanted to start with some of the basics. So we have 3 utilities, enterprise funds, the water utility, the wastewater utility, the stormwater and flood utility as well. These are self-sustaining funds that operate like a business where services are paid for by user fees rather than taxes. And so these funds are used exclusively to support the infrastructure operations and long-term planning necessary to deliver essential utility services.

[21:13] Unlike the general fund which is tax funded and supports broad city services like public safety. Your parks, these 3 enterprise funds are limited to utility services, with revenues reinvested into those systems. Most of our funding sources are listed up here. So we've got our customer rate revenues, our plant investment fees which are our developer fees. hydroelectric sales, biogas, sales. We also generate revenues through bond sales, and then a little bit through alternative funding mechanisms like grants or federal match programs. So this slide is looking at the 2024 actuals and the 2025 adopted in 2025 revised budgets. It's just looking at expenses versus revenues, and where we ended the year in 2024. So in 2024, we collected about 92 million dollars in revenues.

[22:12] want to note that that does include bond proceeds, and then our expenses for 2024 were around 51 million dollars. And then, just to kind of break down these bar graphs. So the dark blue shows our operating expenses, which remain relatively consistent year over year. The Orange represents our debt service payments. So in our utilities, budget debt service refers to the annual payments the city makes to repay borrowed money. These payments cover both principal and interest similar to a household paying off a mortgage the dark green. It's a small sliver. It represents interfund transfers which are internal payments made to other city funds or departments. They support shared services like computer replacement programs.

[23:00] And then the light blue indicates our capital expenses, which are typically our largest single cost category I do want to point out, and you may notice between the 2025 adopted and the 2025 revised budgets that light blue does spike up that reflects Rollover of any unspent capital from 2024. So that's very common when managing large multi-year projects and the revenue spikes which we already covered in 2024. That was due to the bond proceeds that we received. So stop and see if there are any questions so far excellent. So this is our wastewater fund expenses versus revenues for 2024 actuals, through 2025, adopted in 2025, revised in 2024 expenses were around 84.5 million dollars, and a large portion of that was due to a couple of capital projects.

[24:02] and our revenues were around 95 million, which again included some bond, proceeds, monies. So again, just kind of want to highlight that, you know, in 2025 our revenue stabilize, while capital expenses increase, because those do reflect the the carryover of funds for multi-year projects which I touched on in the prior slide. And this pattern is typical when large infrastructure projects span several years and are funded through a combination of current revenues and prior year financing. And this is our revenues and expenses for our stormwater flood fund. In 2024 the fund received about 26 million dollars in revenue, and incurred about 23.2 million dollars in expenses. Looking ahead to 2025, the graph shows an anticipated increase in our debt service, which is related to the Softwater Creek project while Bond proceeds, and associated capital expenses with that project are not reflected here. We have intentionally included the projected debt service. This reflects the new financial obligation that we expect to see in 2025,

[25:19] and I just wanted to provide a quick snapshot of our Fund balance projections. The 2024 actual shows the beginning and ending fund balance, and then our 2025 our projections. So fund balance is essentially our savings account that we use to allocate reserves as well as to help fund capital projects. It helps absorb spending spikes without needing to raise rates suddenly, or, you know, take on additional debt. We take a balanced approach, using a mix of fund, balance rate, revenues and bond proceeds to responsibly fund our capital needs. This table does assume that all capital projects, including the carryovers that I touched on in the prior slides will be fully spent in 2025, which helps explain the sharp drop in fund balance from 24 to 25.

[26:08] In practice, capital spending typically stretches across multiple years. However, full funding must be secured before contracts are signed. So what may look like a high beginning. Balance is often already committed to long-term projects, and as this table shows, those funds are drawn down as capital projects are advanced. This slide covers our prior year rate projections. So the 2025 column shows the rate increases that were adopted in 2025, 2026, and 2027 is what we presented last year in June. We will follow this slide up with an updated capital plan and rate projections for 2627, and 28, and I don't know if you all can see that. This is the

[27:04] final slide that compares the city of Boulder's utility rates to other front range communities. It's based on average monthly water usage for a single family home consuming 7,500 gallons. That's a typical average. And the city of Boulder's utility bills are about 25% higher than other front range communities shown here we do have the 4th highest water Bill, the 4th highest wastewater bill and the highest storm water bill. I'll just mention that, you know Boulder does have an extensive network of drainageways, and due to our unique geography and location, we do face the highest flash flood risk in the State. So as a result, our storm and flood rates do tend to be on the higher end. Well, I had. Are there any questions? You know what Golden's rates are? I don't know those off the top of my head, but I can. I can look for that.

[28:11] and then I think that hands it over to me. So good evening again, and my name is Chris Douglas, the Senior Utilities engineering manager. So we really go through in this series of slides and talk, start off with talking about generally what our capital improvement programs entails, and then we'll dive into each of the utilities. But you know, we start our internal budgeting process in January staff. and we sit down with any of those utilities teams that have a planning, implementing, operating, or or maintaining of capital assets, and we sit down and have a series of discussions, and and there are some debates on where our priorities are. so, and these outcome of those meetings end up creating this capital, improve the draft. Capital improvement plan that we'll be seeing and talking more in detail in June.

[29:03] But a little bit of background in where we get on that process is, there's a lot of influences on capital projects like those shown on the slide of note is things like the Boulder Valley comprehensive plan which actually, we're in the middle of a citywide improvement to that comprehensive plan here in 2025 and the biggest driver for utilities specific projects is really that 4th bullet is the related to rehabilitation or replacement of aging infrastructure based on our asset management systems. So here we prioritize projects based on likelihood of failure compared to the consequences of failure. And then we also use a utility area condition, index score or uci, which you'll see on several of the slides later on this evening. And it's really a it's a cost weighted average. On how much does the asset cost?

[30:02] How much useful life is remaining? And we turn that into a percentage number. And really, the the nice thing that this does for us is, it helps us compare a wide range of different life cycle of assets and also costs. So it's down to smaller diameter pipe all the way up to major components in a treatment plant. So it's just a way to try to normalize those costs. Or and, as Joe mentioned, you know, another way of thinking about this process is the traffic light concept. So we've got the green, yellow, and red. Where red is that area that we want to address? First, st because the impacts to the city are the highest. If there's a failure. And then the other big area that we're always looking at is cost and how we go through the the cost analysis. So let me explain this figure a little bit, because it shows the various cost estimate rate estimated ranges on as we develop a project or the class of the estimate. Think about that those brown boxes on the bottom of this chart.

[31:04] or simply put. And then it's also simply put the more detail we have on a project, the more confidence we are in the cost estimate. and and that reduces our plus or minus range. So, as you can see, this funnel of the the blue decreases as our certainty and understanding of a cost. Or excuse me, as a project increases. So in June you'll see that one year recommendation for the 2026 program. But we also tie that into a longer view on a 6 year capital improvement program. And one of the things that we're always struggling with is cost. And I just point out as an example. So the 63rd waterline project that we're going to see tonight was, we actually did a 1st phase that we bid in the 1st quarter of 2024, and then we added a second phase in the latter half or November of 2024 between that in one calendar year we had 15% cost increases price of steel.

[32:00] And that was really. And that's even before any of the current economic uncertainty that we're seeing now. So we're actively addressing. And this is one of those ongoing debate items that we have. How do we plan for those larger construction contingencies for projects that we're going to be bidding later this year, and even into the future. So that now, just before we get into the specifics on utilities. Just kind of as a much, very broad picture over your end and make sure if anybody had any questions. Okay, so then the next series of slides and we'll stop really after each. Some of these major components is we've talked about the water utility which is broken up into the source water and the treated water system, and we'll dive into a little bit of detail on each of those. And then the wastewater utility, and then followed by the storm and flood utility. So the source water system is really it's everything that delivers water to the treatment plant. So it's our storage reservoirs conveyance be either via river or pipe systems, or and then also hydroelectric facilities. And so now we'll kind of

[33:16] talk through that. So the the source water system as an overview is made up of 15 reservoirs, and it's roughly divided between 3 different sources. We have water that comes from the Colorado beach. Thompson, shown in green that delivers water to the Boulder reservoir treatment plant where we are today. and then we have 2 independent mountain water supplies in the North Boulder Creek watershed, and then the Middle Boulder Creek watershed, and we'll kind of step through each of those here now. So the western slope or the water supply that delivers water to the 63rd water treatment plant. This is the 1st example where you see that traffic light concept is, we have multiple sources to get water to the Boulder reservoir treatment plant. We have the green, which is relatively new

[34:11] Southern water delivery pipeline that we partnered with the Northern Colorado Water Conservancy district on. And then there's also a a surface feeder canal that's a little bit older in yellow as our sources. Then the North Boulder creek. What percentage of the water coming in here is going through the ditch versus the pipeline? Most of almost all of the water. We prefer to run through the pipeline for water to help with our water quality reasons. So we really do use the ditch more as a backup supply. I see there is water running in it. There is water running it because we're one of many partners on that ditch, and even the ditches it runs into your boulder reservoir. Let's see Northern water. We're about a 50 50 partnership here at Boulder Reservoir, so they're bringing water in for some of their uses

[35:00] or Northern water. Specifically. if they have irrigation deliveries that they do for other water users in the area. And that's a lot of what we see in the whatever in the pipe is for our municipalities. Pipeline is is used only for boulder. or does it have off? Takes for other users, too? No, it has. It's we're partnered with left hand water district and and a few others, and they they take water off of it before it gets to us. So the North Boulder Creek system is really it's it's a series of dams that collect water and cascade from from our closed watershed to the the Silver Lake dam. And then we have a series of open channel and pipelines to deliver water to the Potasso Water treatment plant. And also we're taking advantage of that elevation fall and generating some hydroelectric power.

[36:08] So we've got several projects that we're planning in the cip up in the north, the North Boulder Creek watershed that you'll see in in the Cfp when we go into a little more detail. just because when you say yes, their- their past useful life, I'm just kidding. What's the useful life typically. and it depends on the assets. So, for instance, on some of these reservoirs are pushing a hundred years old. and and and it's time for some rehabilitation. And also there's the question of. So then, as. for instance, on reservoirs, regulatory requirements change. That's that's shifting our useful life on that character. So we we even have as we'll look in the Middle Boulder Creek system. We've got some piping that we're actively doing if I can. I'm going to use that as a segue, if you don't mind. But on the Middle Boulder Creek system you can see where we have the Barker gravity pipeline, and the Boulder Canyon Penstock. Those those facilities are actually both over 100 years old.

[37:07] and we're in a multi-year project on the Barker gravity line where you can see the green and the red where we've got another 4 years, and we will have completely rehabilitated that pipeline. and then we'll be pivoting to the Boulder Canyon pen stock after that. So there is this mix of okay, it's really old. But is it still working for us? And we've got definitely several things, where we're doing some additional analysis on that, on, on those facilities. So there is. This is always it's a big juggling act as as we've talked about. We've got a lot of 1st page projects. And it's really we're in that which is the the biggest priority on that 1st page that we need to start getting after. So that's the Barker gravity system. Probably the big. The biggest thing on this one on the Middle Boulder Creek system is Barker Reservoir is the primary reservoir for that system, and we're continuing to look at upgrades and coordination with the State engineer and making sure that that reservoir stays safe.

[38:18] There's still 4 years worth of work on the pipeline, on the pipeline. Roughly, it's it's roughly a 10 mile pipeline, and we're rehabilitating about a mile a year. And that really is we're doing that in the middle of winter because we need the water for the critical water demand season. So we've really come up with. Well, I'll say, before my time. Here is the team came up with a really ingenious way to get in and work on it, for in the harsh winter conditions and get it back up and running versus what would be taking it down to fully replace it would be a multiple, probably out, not able to use that pipeline for multiple years. And then so we've done questions. But just want to make sure. A pause before going into the treated water system. Any other questions on the source water system.

[39:07] So I might make the comment while we're thinking of questions on the 1st slide that you showed the Northern Colorado system. You don't need to go back to it where we were talking about the pipeline that's relatively new and green, and then the canal system. Those are Northern water assets. They're not city of Boulder. So just wanted to make sure. Everyone under understood that we we pay into. We have contracts with them. We pay into kind of annual maintenance. So it's a little different than funding big capital project on our own infrastructure. We didn't fund any of the capital original capital costs in that pipeline. We did. We did. Yeah. And and and we have a contract for the the initial portion of the payment. And then so all the all the different users contributed to the capital cost of originally. But it's owned by Northern

[40:07] that wrong. That's right. Yeah. We paid him, and and we're paying in. based on our share of the capacity of that pipeline. So we would do the same thing for the capital costs. And and then also, we're paying in an annual maintenance fee. steady amount period it it as a part of the budget process. It. It varies, but it is also, as we go through our budget process, we're coordinating with Northern on what those anticipated fees are. What's the diameter of that pipeline? Now you're gonna make me think, and I'm not sure if I have that one, I'm going to look at those folks that were maybe 42 inch all the book everything the boulder paid for. And so it gets progressively smaller. Yeah. as as each user takes their water off, there's no need, for we'll go ahead.

[41:05] Is the ditch lined, or is it? It's an unwind ditch. or, I think, just really close here. There's some lining, but it the vast majority of it just since, Dan, since you're helping me out here, I just want to introduce Dan Kosnik as our construction project analyst on on the Utilities engineering team, and he, if anything, he's been here 15 years 15 years and and worked on a lot almost name most of the water projects Dan has been involved in in one way or another. Why was the why was the why was the the. you know, the map of the layout of the ditch and the pipeline so much different. Pipeline was actually shorter than ditch.

[42:01] They. They didn't run it right together, so it they. They ended up getting a bunch of easement and stuff for the pipeline and ran it straighter. So they didn't have to pay so much. There was an original Southern supply line that Boulder did not buy into, but, like city of Longmont and Burnfield and others did. they had a right of way and a kind of an easement for that, and so the a portion of the second line was parallel, and took advantage of that same easement. When was that pipeline originally built 2018 2018? There was a period in the history where I think I was leading the League in Presentations to rap on the same project. It was like 40 million dollars, too. It was a huge amount of money total from the city of Boulder or the total project cost. Yeah, that was our portion of the cost.

[43:03] So it was a multi 100 million dollar project altogether. We close to a hundred, we think right? 10 miles. It's longer than 10 miles. Right? Yeah. My question, what is it made of? Is it concrete or steel? A concrete wide steel? Yeah. Same exact pipe that you'll see out here that we're putting in later on, and while we're at it on that one there, we already had a canal to deliver water. So the question was like, Should we invest in this pipeline the 2013 flood. I think it wiped out that canal, and we were unable to treat water in that system, for I think, like 6 weeks or something like that. And so it kind of put it in a new light.

[44:00] in terms of resilience and climate change and value. And there's value and year round deliveries as well year round, year round deliveries, and there is also a water quality component that we are not having to do as much treatment here as a result of bringing it in via the pipeline versus the canal. We can do both, but it's more in some of the operations and maintenance. or or maybe it's more. The operators, like the consistency of the water gets delivered via the pipeline. Yeah. Confident that a similar flood to 2013 pipeline withstanding. Yes. we didn't lose water in 2013 City of Boulder State completely. How we didn't lose a single pipeline so. and we got super lucky. There was a few that we probably should have lost, but we didn't. So there are pump stations that help move the water or is gravity, so are there, is there?

[45:05] Micro? We looked at that, and it was in our cip. But it it didn't pencil out. Yeah. a lot of the micro stuff is is rough doesn't pay for itself because it's so much maintenance involved. So like a lot of times, just the Prvs less maintenance. And you know. how are you get out of the small diameter stuff it just doesn't use. We're always we always look into it. It's always interesting. But at least some pictographs as to where we've got even more of the hydro generation electric. So we're trying to take advantage of it where it makes practical sense. Maybe now, onto the treated water system. So treated, water system really made up. We have water treatment, and we'll do a couple of slides on each of these. So the water treatment plants, the large diameter transmission system, and then the distribution system.

[46:07] So from the treatment plants, we have 2 treatment plants here in the city. So we've got in the upper right hand, or on the east end of the city, is where we are sitting. Right now is the the boulder boulder reservoir water treatment plant or the 63rd water treatment plant would kind of interchange the 2 on the call on the nave. And that's where we're bringing in all that water from the northern system, and then we have the water treatment plant, which is west of the city at the actually the preserve. If you have been up there. The treatment plants really on that end, and that's where it collects the water from the 2 Boulder Boulder Creek drainage systems water treatment. This is to make it. This is correct. This is potable water treatment. Yes. and then we'll talk about wastewater treatment

[47:02] here in the in the next series of slides. So lots of things on this one. But it's the the boulder reservoir water treatment plant. So really, a couple of the big things to highlight in the last years we did upgrade the main power and the high surface pump station. So you'll see on those particular ones. Kind of there in the middle of the slide is, those are now green because we've brought and done that major capital improvement program. And then you'll see the areas in red that we're looking at which is the backwash tank. the campus building and support facilities, Hvac roofs, those sorts of things, and then also the chemical feed system that are approaching that end of their useful life, and it's time to be doing an upgrade. So we'll see some, and then some things here in the next year. But then some other things in the outer years, in that 4 to 6 year range on in the capital improvement program.

[48:00] Does utilities pay for those building upgrades? We do we? We are responsible for the the maintenance on our buildings, and we do work with facilities team. So that would be one of those transfers that Steph talked about to other departments. We are still paying our bill to the Facilities department when they are helping us out on projects like that. The solar outside. What's powering this solar outside is a separate solar contract that is, a power service provider contract. So it yes, it does help with this facility. But I think from the accounting side is, it goes in, and it's more to the city, and then kind of selling power back to the utilities department. Did I get that right, Steven? That was certainly an area when we did this. But big electrical job was, it was definitely a coordination issue on, how? How we either maintain or what we have to do to shut power down to that solar field while we were doing all that work.

[49:09] So the Potassel Water treatment plant. It's in pretty good shape because we did some upgrades in 2017. But like right now, we're actively working with contractor consultants on some issues on the the backwash tank, and we've just completed some work. That's why you see, in that backwash tank is that kind of red, red, green split. and then also looking at the disinfection system. And then, in a little bit later years in the capital improvement program, as we're looking at upgrading the chemical system. then the the transmission main system. So think the large diameter pipes is really an area where we're actively looking at right now. So you look at the red box with the the 70 miles of large diameter transmission pipes that we have.

[50:01] That's what we're going to look at tonight. And that's this is our 1st big, really, after completing a transmission main study on approaching capital or pipe replacement. So then, then, I've got this slide, which really you can see where all the transmission pipelines are, and we're looking at stepping our way through in that program. So you'll see a theme in the cip where it is more of a transmission pipeline replacement program. It's the how we keep working and replacing that over time. Yeah. So the and then there's pumps on here so you can see and then the and then a series of tanks. So the the pump stations are where we're pumping water from and getting it back into the system. So in the upper right hand corner you can see the pump with the green dot on it. That's that electrical work that we just did here at the 63rd water treatment plant, and then we have several ways to be able to pump water from 63rd back into the city, whereas the Potasso system on the west side of the city is gravity, flow this way.

[51:11] Those pump stations actually turn to generation stations. We spin the pumps backwards, and H. And RI have interest. And then the other thing that's on here is you can see that the storage tanks that are shown in there, and we have 3 that are in that red. We have the Kohler and the Chautauqua tanks that are aging assets that have some operational limitations. And that's 1 of those in the outer years. How do we go about replacing those those older tanks? And then there's this future tank in the east side of town which we're we're looking to help with service. Interruptions and fire flow particularly here. and those are those are programs and processes that you'll you'll see in some of those later years.

[52:01] And then finally, on the water system is the is the distribution. So think the small pipes that's out in front of everybody's home or or business. And what I'm really showing here is the pipes in green are ones that we have replaced since we started a distribution system replacement program in 1994. So we're making good progress. But this distribution system is the single highest dollar value out of any of our systems, just because the sheer number of miles of pipeline we have to to work with. So that's the water system in an overview. And we've been asking questions, but any, maybe any other questions before we move on to the wastewater system. Just maybe something fires. And really, especially in La, the ability of the water systems. Do you know, if you really gotta, you gotta fire and trying to put on multiple systems are not built or containing a lot of fire. Right? That is correct. I mean, we. We have a system to where we can produce a large volume of water, but it's it's a matter of, and we've even worked with the operations folks on continuing to move water through it. But if we're ending with a Marshall fire or fire in la! The system is not designed to be able to handle that sort of massive firing

[53:25] that that would be looking at, really going through and looking at upgrades to this entire distribution system. And so the biggest issue with that would you'd have so much water that can only sit in the system with once you add chlorine for so long you'd age out all your water before you could get it out of the system. Yeah, thank you, Dan. That was the that's the other side of the coin. Is that water quality and nonstarter? I'm sorry the nonstarter. Yeah, that's why that's why nobody designs that way. Yeah. would we do it differently. Had we thought about that at the beginning? Maybe

[54:09] so in in the wastewater system, it's wastewater is really made up of 2 2 main components. It's the sanitary sewer collection system which is really taking the sanitary sewer from everybody's home and then delivering that to for the for wastewater treatment at the water resources, recovery, facility, or what we call the wharf. And I just kind of wanted to point an example out on the types of projects that we're doing here in this photo is this is actually a siphon that runs under Boulder Creek that we've been actually Rob took a tour of this area, if you remember, we did that in the dark last year. But so, and and what what you're seeing is Boulder Creek has been diverted so we can put the pipes in and lower them under the creek. and then we'll Redirt Boulder Creek back over it, and what this allows us to do is not have a crossing over the top of Boulder Creek, so reducing that risk in in a flood and protecting that we looked out.

[55:09] Yeah, was dark. Yeah, it was dark, and I think we did. The headlight headlight projection. Beautiful sunset. We were out by the you know, Western. No? Then we came here. Yes, we'll try to hustle the Max. We can get out before it gets nervous. and and just a couple of things more things on the sanitary sewer system. So this, this, this photo represents really that collection system. And really, after the 2013 floods, we had a lot of inflow and infiltration into the sanitary sewer system. So city Council put us on aggressive 20 year lining program. And so you can see here on the slide in green are the pipes that we've lined the red are the pipes. We still need to line for this program that we're on track to complete by 2035, and then the blue are plastic pipes that don't have that serious inflow and infiltration project. So we're not planning on

[56:06] doing an aggressive lining on that end. We're still fixing things as we come as we come across. It's actually you can see on this photo. Here, on the left hand side is a pipe beforehand and on the right is after we've done the lining. Basically think about we're doing a version of, we're putting in an uninflated balloon in the pipe, and then we use either water or hot air, and we expand that balloon and acts as a resin. You cook it in place, and it becomes its own structural pipe within the pipe. So we don't have to go dig up all the streets to be able to. It's a resin filled felt liner. It's felt. It's like a felt, and you impregnate it with the resin, and then it becomes a pipe. And it's the original thickness of the existing. And so it's it's it's as good as a brand new bike. And then just a couple of things highlighting on the larger diameter sanitary sewer lines. We're we've completed one project, and we're just about to complete our second project. Major sanitary Sewer Project, the main sewer interceptor project which we saw with Rab in the fall. But that's actually online right now. And they're doing some finishing touches. And so just just a major milestone on that end.

[57:30] we're actually planning a completion ceremony biggest, most important. And this one is, it's 45 million for this particular project. And when you make decisions about which neighborhoods and how to structure, and the phasing is that based on

[58:00] some sort of like prioritization process, and also some consideration of equity. And where all the projects are happening and trans traffic traffic flow. And yeah, and and maybe even jump back to this one. We didn't mean to do our project with Cdos. That was. we didn't know Cdot was going to do that out here. But yes, we are we. We are attempting to do that in particular, here on the sanitary sewer lining program. It was a primary portion on that project is looking at what is what has the largest inflow and that inflow issue. But as we particularly and rolled out the equity program as we're overlaying that equity concept on and making sure that our is there an area that we're not necessarily have we not necessarily addressed on that from an equity lens as well. So that's particularly on a multi-year project like like this one that's shown up here is we can look at that and go. Are are we looking at it through the right with that lens on distribution system that we started in 1994 has been scored by point system since the inception of it.

[59:15] Will be the. That's that water, the water replacement. Yeah. And so that that's how we've the whole time I've ever been here. We've done roughly 4 miles a year pipe, and we did that based solely out. I didn't even know where the pipes were. They were just the score. And we do these those pipes. So then you raise a really good point. So there's like the coordination with the city roads, streets, and roads folks, and like timing your projects so that lines up with other projects that might be happening in the same location. But also knowing what Cdot's gonna do, knowing what excel is going to do like. There's another level of there's definitely another level on that layer of where would our priorities for going alone. Equity lands. Other.

[60:00] I'll say citywide benefits is is another thing that we're considering. So we're we're trying to fit all of those pieces into making those project decisions. So you talked about sanitary sewer. So then, the last component at the water resources recovery facility. It's in pretty good shape, as you can kind of see by the color chart, but we're definitely moving at in the upper left hand corner, looking at the clarifier upgrades here in current cip, and also in future years. And then the big one is down there in the representing the lower left is the blower upgrades as we're talking, and we're just about to come online with the phosphorus upgrade project where it's as we're treating for phosphorus now. And taking advantage of some credits we're getting from the State. But then it's also allowing us to upgrade those blowers and integrating that process too. So again, another one of those as we're looking at the conditions and trying to

[61:03] pull levers. And as Joe has talked about in the past, the mixing, the giant music mixing board that we look at as to which projects we're doing and when and how that influences things. And one of the things that's really come out that stuck for me is when, because we're going to relay. We're going to go into the storm and flood program. But we did the comprehensive storm and flood analysis and majors. Time was we have the financial capacity to do it? Do we have the staffing capacity to do it in the public willingness to be able to advance a project so another one of those. We don't want to be doing construction in one area, year after year after year, for that public. Do anything with the Clarifiers. Last year, the one we were working on some of the clear. Yes, and now I'm trying to think, and was was the clarifier. I'm gonna let Chris know, because you've got the more deputy director of Operations. So yeah, I can. I can share a few things. So we have primary clarifiers. And then secondary. So primaries. Did get a fairly significant rehabilitation effort to extend the useful life of those assets.

[62:13] There will be more work to do in the future, but it was largely dealing with coating there, coding and the submerged steel secondary clarifiers. One unit got replaced completely. There's 2 more that need to be replaced. The mechanisms. That's what we're still planning to fund and and pursue in the next couple of years 2 out of the 4 secondary clarifiers are in really good shape, who are not in good shape, but we have active plans to. and then maybe pivot to the the last utility area on the stormwater and flood program. And it's, you know, made up of stormwater conveyance, thinking the pipes in the streets stormwater quality, and then the flood drainage waste system.

[63:01] And I really wanted to show this example, which is the the Rain garden at 15th and Walnut, near the Post Office downtown. And really this has dual benefits on this particular project because it increases local stormwater drainage conveyance. But then also with the rain garden there, it's delaying that water as it goes into the storm sewer system. So we get a water quality benefit as well. So that that an exciting project that just came online here recently. this is the 1st there are. There are some private ones in Boulder, but this is the 1st utilities supported one. And we're looking at other areas on how we can do that because it's also there is a a partnership that we have to do with property owner on some of the maintenance items, and some of those things as well. Then in the stormwater system, and just wanted to show you a map of really the diverse stormwater system that we've got. But just a couple of points on. This one is, we are in year 3 of a condition assessment program, where we're going in and looking at the condition of all the storm sewer pipes that has driven us into one of our local annual local drainage recruitment projects. But the big part

[64:25] point on the storm sewer system is our level of service we're trying to get. A lot of boulder is older, and it is not at in a residential area, not at being able to handle that 2 year storm, or that small local storm that we get versus in those non residential areas that a 5 year storm. So we're really looking as we go forward and and doing upgrades to the system both in capacity. Oh, now that one, I'm gonna have to get back to you on that one, and I know I can talk to my storm server or my yeah, I I will get capacities, and we'll I'll bring that back in June in June, and it kind of varies

[65:08] drainage area. But I I you know, think we we have routine thunderstorms all the time in in boulder. But when you get into these types of events. It's more the bigger ones where you really start to see some flooding and accumulation of water that we're probably talking. Then the Stormwater quality program works to address water quality within the city limits. The program not only seeks to comply with state water quality regulations, but to educate the public and improve water quality through better understanding of the stewardship. So that's led to things like the rain garden or And then, you know, we address various water quality, monitoring special studies, such as in creeks. And and one of those is, we're in a multi-year implementation related to equal E coli and E coli. Total daily maximum load implementation plan on Boulder Creek.

[66:17] and then the flood program is designed at those majors floods that either are collecting flood waters that are created here in the city of Boulder, but then also through the 16 major drainageways that actually deliver water into the city, and we have to convey it through the city. So this map really shows the different colors ranging from the dark red. Is that 5 year capacity up to what is a blue? What looks like over here on the screen blue with the 100 year capacity. And really, our goal is to get everything up to the highest possible capacity we can, and shooting for 100 year capacity on all of the drainageways. But since Boulder was established before modern day floodplain regulations, there are physical limitations that we have to do. And even some of these neighborhood drainages. And we're putting in the largest practical stormwater conveyance that we can put in

[67:13] is that the historic 100 Year Flood, or is that projected future? And and we we're it is that based right now on a lot of our mitigation plans are that historic 100 year flows, and we are looking at where we can, addressing a larger flow. But again, it hits into that practical limit, just on that cost balance because we have so much to do. It really is, we want to get as much of the system upgraded as we can in in that cycle because we're we're behind on we've identified a 20 year capital improvement program to address about 35 individual reaches. And with that, Joe, unless there are other questions on the stormwater and flood system. Hand it over to you to finish us off.

[68:06] Yeah. So we've we've got the the city has a racial equity plan and topic just came up here in the conversation a few minutes ago. And so we have the capital improvement program. And then every department has a work plan, and it could be operational items. things that aren't really related to capital projects. And we develop a work plan every year. And we go through that. And we tag things that are candidates for applying a racial equity plan and that racial equity index. Some of the things we do in utilities are kind of system wide and and benefit everyone. And then there are other things like I'm really proud of the work the team did on the comprehensive flood plan, where we changed the way we prioritized projects with equity in mind, and just the the way that was done systematically in the past kind of you

[69:03] used to point projects to most affluent neighborhoods based on property damage values. Wasn't really the intent of it, but it was all based on benefit cost ratio. And so this year's work plan. We have a lot of things flagged. We have a billing system upgrade. We're looking at starting on water budgets and a rate study. Those are the types of things that are really a candidate for that approach and utilities and the comprehensive flood plan, the water efficiency plan. The drought plan that the Board waited on in the last few years are all things that tools from the city's racial equity plan were applied and made a difference in the way we we do things. So that's really top of mind for for the organization. And I don't know if you want to go to the summary slide, Chris, but I think

[70:04] I often when I'm talking to a group of utility staff, I I feel like the systems that Boulder has for the utilities that Chris went through, are really good systems, and the generations of staff that were here before us and left our current generation with with a really good set of systems to work on. But we probably haven't kept up on the maintenance and replacement over the years. So I feel like I feel a sense of obligation to try to talk about that collectively with our team. I think it's on our generation to leave it better than we found it. and in good shape for the community in the future, and that all that systematic planning that you just heard about leads to that. And I I'm in my 20th year in utilities now, and some of the scale of these projects. It takes years and years.

[71:01] but in my 20 years. I look at some of those maps, and and there are big portions of green that used to be red. And and we're we're really making progress over time. So we come back in June. We'll be looking at more of the details of that. I'm looking at the time here, and I know we want to do a quick presentation. And I think it's really cool that we're having this discussion tonight about this major investment in capital projects. And then right out the door is a massive project with a lot of community visibility and a lot of planning and coordination that goes into coordinating the cdot projects and everything. so probably a great segue to transition to a quick presentation on that. And then I think I'll ask everyone when when we're done. Probably save questions, for when we're out in the field and try to make a really quick transition to

[72:02] get going while we still have, I don't want to rush everybody. But daylight is need to be able to see what we're doing. Yeah. And then with that, you already met Dan, and then with Steven groters with us as well. Who is the he's the lead on the treated water system. and they had a couple of slides. I will. I think Steven's going to talk a little bit, and then Dan maybe describe the project since Dan's leading the day-to-day operations. And will you be able to advance this line. Yes, I am here for you. Just so I can keep looking in the right direction. Yeah. Well, good evening to the board and the new members, too. It's nice to see you all here. 63rd Street transmission, pipeline, rap tour, introduction. We say the word transmission. Pipeline just means really large diameter pipe.

[73:06] and, like the name implies, it's where large volumes of water travel through the city to get to different destinations throughout the city. So this particular water plant and the conveyance systems that deliver water to here are about 30% of the city's annual usage for water supply and customer demand that only works really well when we can also convey it out of the plant. And so there's a series of pipes that are built right around the same era as the plant itself. And they're coming due. And we also try to overlap other factors in considering projects like this one. Basically, to your question earlier, we, we really have a data driven process that is risk based and future focused.

[74:00] So the ones the projects that fall in that red category are of particular interest, but on top of that, if the pipe is too small or current needs or current customers, and how we would wish to run the system, but also too small for the future. So you can kind of see how some of these things really stack up. And this red circle is one that stood out and so happy to have a good project here. The reason we do these projects is public health and safety, quality of life and helping to maintain a vibrant economy. There's a lot of the monetary economy of our city. All the things that go on from this, you know Pearl Street and all the open space Parks, and Rec, you name it businesses industries. So water's a big piece of that. But these are the the 3 main drivers and just want to refresh everyone you know. As difficult as some of these projects are to implement.

[75:05] We come back to this slide a lot to have a brief, a breath of reminder. Part of that data driven process, Chris mentioned earlier, is the utility condition Index. This is the cost, weighted average remaining useful life of different asset classes and groups in the system. The chart here shows 8 different rows. Those are 8 different aspects of the treated water system, and the one highlighted in red is the transmission system, because its condition index stands out lower than the rest. So it helps. Yeah, what does. I'm sorry. What does the index? What do these percentages mean? It? It's basically how much life is left. So. But when we look at a system like your car, for example, and there's a million pieces. Some of them might be brand new. Some of them might be old, so how old is the car? And we answer that question by doing the cost, weighted average of all of these pieces, and how much their remaining useful life is.

[76:11] So the transmission system, and a couple of others have been a subject that has been mentioned in years past at this particular meeting cycle. And we're we're just really happy that we have progress to show tonight for this. But you know again, drivers not just public health and safety. But there is a a big component of this that is aging infrastructure driven part of the data that went into this was our asset management program. The aim program that also led to a deeper dive because these systems can be so expensive and they're so complex. You want to really be certain about the outputs and inputs that are going on there for the transmission study itself. There was an extensive study. 2019 water transmission study.

[77:11] Most extensive study of my career. Took more than 2 years. There was over 3,000 files. Hydraulic modeling. You name it. Those are all just examples of the type of when we say it's data driven. It's there's quite a lot of data that goes into this to to come up with a recommendation. So Dan and I will transition. But maybe I'll take this one. Okay, so reinvestment on the transmission system and the results of the transmission study is active. Right now. We we looked at the cover slide here, and it has the red circle. But there are 2 others that have also been active and are anticipating construction in the cip that we'll talk more about as a team with you next month.

[78:04] The cooler tank has a key pipeline that goes from the tank itself down to Broadway. That's kind of by the No. One is facility. If you can mentally imagine that area of town really critical pipe systems that convey, like this project, convey large volumes of the city's water use and then related to that is, once the pipeline gets to Broadway. It goes along Broadway that is part of the same pipe vintage and is also in need of upsizing. So that's sort of the steps that have been active and engaged to date. I can take over from there. The number 2 you see up there is actually actively being designed. As we speak. It's 1 of the projects I'm working on. We're at a roughly 90% design on that. I think we'll be bidding it this coming spring.

[79:01] That's estimated to be around a 12 million dollar project. And so that'll be 2, 24 inch pipes from Polar Tank all the way to Broadway. and then number 3 is hopefully gonna be in design by, you know the end of 26? Possibly. So that's that's kind of our near term. What we're doing with the transmission system. Currently, we're in construction out here. I'm running the the project on 63.rd And that's yeah. Go ahead. This is our current progress. Just a quick overview. We actually did a a section of 12 inch pipeline, because it was in really bad shape, and I thought when we shut off the big pipeline to trend, to, to put other pipelines and things to it. It would, it would break, and we were right, because every time we got close to it, when we replaced it, it broke, and so it was in terrible shape. And so we we started by doing the 12 inch pipeline from roughly

[80:02] the railroad tracks out here to it didn't go quite to Twin Lakes. It was. It was just shy of Twin Lakes Boulevard, and and so that's on the east side of the road, and it's all paved back, and that's where traffic's running right now. But we did that first, st and then we came in and started on both ends of the 30 inch, and are working our way towards the middle on that and the the fat lines is what we've completed to the to date and the dash lines is what we have left. And we're a little bit further on the fat line on the left hand side now, but then the dash line, you see, from J. South to Boulder Creek was the project that Chris talked about, that we we originally bid phase one which was from the railroad tracks to J. And then just we were gonna bid the second project and I talked to our contractor out here. They're doing a good job. They're the premier contractor pipe, large pipe in this in the State, and they said that they'd hold their prices, even though there was that 15% price increase.

[81:10] you know, we've kind of wheeled and dealed with them on on things and got that just basically turned over so we could. And we saved probably at least 2025% cost wise by just, you know, rolling it over and not putting out competitive bid. And so I think that that was probably one of the most crucial things that we did in the last year. As far as you know, saving money and getting a lot of work done. and that's something there. I'll say our department has done my entire tenure. Here is the amount of work we can get done for the amount of money we have is pretty incredible, like, if you talk to other municipalities and stuff. we've done tremendous amount of work for not that much money. And so and it's because we do have a little bit more flexibility and things like that than like a federal facility or something like that would have. And so part of that's good because of your guys decisions. And so

[82:08] I think we're ready for the yeah, we we're gonna go out just a quick overview. We're gonna go out. We're going to go down to kind of roughly between spine and look out. We're going to pull in at the Boulder Rural Fire district. There's pieces of pipe sitting on the ground. You can see the actual pipe we're putting in. We'll be able to walk up and kind of look in the hole. It's fenced off. They have to fence it every night, you know, for safety. We can kind of check that out, and if we have time we can jump down. We did a a casing bore which is essentially a. They dig holes on each side of of the ditch. It it happens to be under White Rock ditch, and you push a metal casing with an auger inside it underneath the ditch, and we did that similar to the the sewer lines that you guys saw just not near as long. We have that hole open. Also that we can stop. Is there already a line running along here that you're replacing? Yes, this was a 24 inch free stress concrete pipe.

[83:07] And the problem with pre stress. Concrete pipe is when it when it fails it fails catastrophically, it blows up into pieces and fixing. It's really difficult. And so that's why we've kind of went after this pipe 1st was. our our consequences of failure were extraordinarily high. And so and we're replacing it with 30 inch steel. And so we've upsized it. And we're going to a better product destination or the endpoint of what we're this specific project. It'll be Boulder Creek at this point but the the ultimate project that would go all the way to Cherryville Pump Station technically. But that's many years in the future. But right now we're we're ending at Boulder Creek, because there's a there's a transmission line that goes up towards airport, and so that gets us a nice piece of flow that we can kind of end at, and, you know, go on to the next

[84:03] priority. Essentially. So rear wheels near Baseline pump station. Yeah, this. This is the main pipeline for zone one. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. To draw a circle around the whole conversation. Once this plant's water finds its way to Cherry Vale, it's also hydraulically connected to Kohler, which is that twin spipe. So water has to has to be transferred. Lots of long durations, long distances, Steve, are you comfortable with me, wrapping up the official business meeting by hitting stop on the recording, or do you? Were there any matters from the board was the only other item. I think you know, we just made a motion to adjourn them. motion to adjourn all in favor. Alright. Okay, we're done with that.