August 12, 2024 — Police Oversight Panel Regular Meeting

Transcript

Captions from City of Boulder YouTube recording.

[0:00] Conversation in a group setting and okay. so we're ready to start Hello, everyone, today is august 12, th this is the police oversight panel meeting for the month of August. and we're gonna start by acknowledging that we are in the Arapaho, Utah and Chigen tribes traditional land. In which the oversight, the police oversight panel and Border police. Buddleur police department operates and we pay our respect to their elders. Past and present. Also, we wanna have a reminder of the community agreements that this panel members agreed on a couple of months ago. So just to keep them close to your heart as we enter in our agenda for today. Also we want to welcome people from the public and the press that might be joining us.

[1:07] And also also welcome. All the panel members are so happy to be here on this not so terribly hot evening, right from home. From what we learn, we are online, not in person. So again, for members of the public. If you want to use the QA. During the meeting, you can post your question there. We're gonna keep an eye on those and if you have bigger questions, we ask you to wait until public comment further down in our agenda. also a reminder that you can always visit our website at Boulder, Colorado, Gov dash services, dash police oversight. Or you can email us to our panel email, police oversight panel at Boulder, Colorado, Gov.

[2:02] also a reminder for the public that the meetings and the agenda are posted on our website. And the recorded of this meeting is going to also be posted in our website shortly. So for today, we have a prepacked agenda. So let's get on with that one. I'm looking to my right to pull things from my monitor. Okay. cool. So the 1st thing that we should take care of is approval of the minutes from July 8, th 2024th meeting. We need a motion to approve the meetings, and we need a second, please, upon. Motion to approve. Thank you. Milan. Second. I second. Okay, if you don't have your camera on, please make yourself known and share with us your vote, please

[3:01] to approve the minutes. Approved. Yes. Okay? Great. Thank you. Next on the agenda, we have committee updates. We will start with community engagement Communications Committee and then legacy committee. I think we're pushing to next week, right next month. Okay. Milan, do you want to share another? Please? Thank you. Sure. Thank you. Sorry, Dad. We did not have what we had planned to. We didn't do what we planned to do on in July. Which was participating having a table at the Boulder Art Festival. Because we didn't have enough volunteers for 3 day events, and so we were forced to cancel it.

[4:01] And so we are looking forward to our next tabling at the what's up boulder? That will be on September 7, th and it's only an afternoon event. And so we should be able. I'm really hoping that we'll have enough volunteers, maybe even 2 volunteers per per hour, or something like that. So it's from one to 4 September 7.th It's called What's up Boulder Madeline Selena and I will work on the design of a flag that we will have. That's like probably 6 feet tall flag that will have to advertise our presence there. And we already have a tablecloth for the table and business cards. I'm so excited I'm ex actually excited about the business cards. So we're and and we're finalizing the flyers and posters that we'll have on the table as well. So we're we should be set for September 7.th I'm really looking forward to that, and I think Sela and I will

[5:19] send something to like a a list or something, where you of hours where you can volunteer for so thank you very much for taking that on alongside us. It's really important. And I think we'll yeah, yeah, we will publicize it on our website. and please feel free to share it with people who you think might be interested in such an event. I think that's it. Boris. we're looking forward to

[6:02] renewing our engagement with community members and meeting with communities as well. Thank you, Soida. I should ask if anybody has any questions for us. Oh, good! Alright! Thank you very much. Thank you, Milan. So quick question. Do we have a sign-up sheet for volunteers to show up at the event? Not yet. But I can definitely work with Milan to get something going. for that weekend. So I'll work on that for you guys and sherry up. I was just going to quickly add that it's only a 3 h event. It's at the East Boulder Rec Center. So it's a pretty light lift, and presumably I mean I'll be there the entire day. If

[7:04] you know if we have, you know 2 people for you know, every hour that's there. Hopefully, people who volunteer will have the opportunity also go around and see some of the other displays from other city departments. I think there's supposed to be a phone party. So that makes me feel old. Okay, sherry don't mean to put you on the spot, but with legacy committee. I know that we were prepared to present something. But Lisa won't won't be able to present tonight. So we're pushing that for next month right. Yeah. And I can just give a quick update that in the last 2 weeks we have gotten the program that permissions and everything. So Lizzie and I were working that on Friday she is celebrating her master's degree this weekend out of town. So she the schedule of the events made her not be able to be here, but otherwise she would have presented it. So expect to see some interesting new links within the next month for next month's meeting.

[8:20] Oh, the program is power bi for people who have more spreadsheet data information experience than I previously did. Interesting. Okay? Next, on the agenda, we have an update by the bylaw working group. So Fara. Hi, everyone good to see you. Farrah Muscaden, consultant for the city of Boulder. My update today is going to be pretty brief, because we have a meeting next Tuesday, a public meeting next Tuesday at 6 Pm. Mountain time to discuss the draft bylaws in more detail. But obviously you all have a copy of it. It was sent on August second. And hopefully you've had an opportunity, if not to read it fully, but at least peruse it.

[9:15] It is starkly different from the current bylaws. Hopefully. In your assessment in a good way. And so we did make if you recall, we had one of our public meetings, I believe, on either July 30th or July 31, st where we talked about primarily public comment and also official statements from the panel. So there were updates that were subsequently made to the draft to address those 2 issues. And if you if you look through it, you see, I flagged it. There are 3 areas in the draft that's where you can see, I said. This was updated, based on feedback. We relieved, I believe, on July 30th

[10:00] and so I'm looking forward to your feedback again. I request that if you do have any feedback. You just send it to me directly, and then I can work through it with our bylaws committee. But essentially, it's it's very different. I think we kept the spirit of your current bylaws. But it! It needed some reorganization. It needed a little bit more meat. And it. We definitely added that because you have 17 articles but I do think that it is a very strong foundation for the panel going forward in terms of memorializing and giving direction about how you should conduct your business. We really flushed out particularly making motions, and kind of the voting process. We it. It is clearly 100 consistent with the current ordinance, which is a very big consideration. And then, you know, we address some things that were lingering that weren't, you know, unclear, or that were unclear

[11:03] and obviously, we heightened community engagement and the community engagement and Communications Committee, and made it very clear that it is the responsibility of the whole panel, not just the committee and then obviously gave the panel the ability to create ad hoc committees as needed, like the Bylaw subcommittee. So we know that works right. And so that is a recipe that we put in. Put in the draft. And so I'm just looking forward to your feedback. We are 100% on schedule, actually, where I think we're actually a little bit ahead of schedule. But you have the draft. We have our next public meeting next Tuesday and it has always been projected to be on the September 12th panel meeting for full vote and hopefully approval. So you know that that is the goal. As a side note, I'm just going to take 30 seconds to just give the update. I had been working on a complaints manual for you guys, because it it occurred to me with particularly all the substance of complaints that were in the current bylaws. That wasn't the best place for it, but that has been subsequently paused just a little bit until we

[12:18] you know, pass and finish the bylaws, and then we'll transition to work on the complaints. Manual. This is this is a little bit of a a journey. Because in my mind, I'm like, Oh, I'm just gonna put together a 4 or 5 page guide for you guys on how to, you know, review your complaints, but I'm already at 12 pages. So And I really even haven't gotten to the meat of like how you review complaints. So I'm a little worried. I do not want to give you guys a legal treatise. But I will figure out how to condense it, but I think it's good that I have so much information in there. Now and then I will weed it, weed it down, but this is only like from my brain, and my conversations with Panama from sherry. So so we will

[13:06] needs to do it, and then I will, you know, cut it down because essentially, I want it to be a resource to panel members current and future, to say, Okay, I have my 1st case. What am I supposed to do? And we all know no one's going to read anything. That's 12 pages. So I want it to be as concise as possible. But I also want it to be informative and give you the tools that you need, for when you do case review. So that is a work in progress and my anticipated goal for completion of that is in October. So so it started, but we pause it focus on the bylaws. We'll resume right when we approve the the bylaws and then get that ready for you guys in the fall time. So that is my update. I'm happy to answer any questions. I mean, you guys know I'm super responsive. So you can email me call me anytime if questions come up. I I hope you've had at least a glance at it, and, you know.

[14:07] saw some positivity in the draft. But either way your feedback is welcomed. so I will take any questions from anyone if you have them. Oh, maybe. I actually don't have a question on the bylaws, because I still need to really dive into them. But I will do that. It's on my list for tomorrow. regarding the complaint like manual that you're doing like, could you have like a 1 pager, or whatever you know, something very concise, and then also have the 12 pages, or 15 by the time you do something else, you know, to as reference for. Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. I'm thinking about having like a cliff notes version and then a longer version. But I I still need to put the longer version together. So I know what I can pull and then but this like again. This is only me like learning about your complaint process, because, you know, I've been very separate from your company.

[15:06] Lean. Process. So it really needs review and input from panel members. A lot of it. Because I do think I need to merge the process, to make sure that we all have the same understanding of the process, because in me doing that, I realize we don't have the same understanding of the process. So, but I do think I will do like a condensed cliff notes version, and then you know a a longer version for just a resource. That maybe could be used as training. And then when someone's doing their 1st case review, they could have the cliff notes like handy to be like, okay, what does this mean again? And what you know? What does this position mean? Again, you know what I mean? To have that more accessible. Yeah, thank you so much. It's such great news that we're gonna have that resource. I really really appreciate you doing that. Thank you. any other questions on the Bylaws.

[16:06] I would just remind people again to look at that draft. But this is a long way from like we were like typing it on the screen, and Daniel was editing it in the moment to to have this version here. I just glanced and saw the part about like special meetings like, Oh, man. there's so many things in there that just look great. So it definitely will require some time to review before next week. Yeah, thank you for that. And I mean, I I you know my goal is to have obviously 100% support from the panel on it. Because this is your document. I mean, the ordinance is yours, but it's not. You know what I mean. It's obviously more of like city law and part of the city. But the bylaws is so specific to the panel that I really want you guys to feel comfortable with it. It's kind of your baby. I'm I'm the babysitter at this point, and so I will be ending my shift soon. And so I really want you guys to feel very comfortable with it, and confident that it gives you the support that you need in your operations as a panel.

[17:13] Obviously, it's not going to be the end. All be all there could. There's going to be something we didn't think of that always happens, but the substance of it and the foundation of it will definitely strengthen. The panel and how you move words. I'm very optimistic about it. It's been an absolute pleasure working with Abigail and Soledet on it. I do think the subcommittee thing is a great formula. So so hopefully, you know, as things pop up, you get 2 panel members together. Who can, you know, kind of work their schedules together, and communicate very quickly and effectively to get something to work. So we could. You know you have that as a model to know that that you know so smaller subcommittee actually works. So that's it for me. Again, please feel free to email call

[18:01] you know, if you have any questions on something, feel free to, you know. Put the edits that you may have in the draft and send it back to me. Obviously I will forward it to the subcommittee. I think we meet next week, or maybe the week after, so you know, we will review everybody's comments, and and you might read something you're like, what does this mean? Call me? Let me explain it. And if you really do say this, I really ask that you call me, because if you're like, I don't understand that what that means. That means it's not clear. And we need to make it clear. So like, if you have that reaction, I'm definitely asking you to call me because I want to make sure that it is very clear to everybody. When they read it. All right, that's it for me. I think I little use a little bit more time than I anticipated. But thank you all. I'll see you next week and look forward to September 12th when we get this over the finish line. Thank you. Farah. All right. Take care! Everybody. Thank you. Farah. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. AB: Thank you. Farah.

[19:02] So next. in the agenda we have confidential case review. So we're going to be having this time to do confidential case review. We'll be back in about 20 min. So members of the public, you can wait for us for a little bit. Selena is going to be here. I think Sterling also is going to stay here. We're ready to go. Okey, doke. Thank you. Me. I have it already, so I will see you guys in 20 min. Is that correct? Perfect. Thank you. Alright to you soon.

[20:42] Okay, thank you. Everyone. And we're back. are we? Yeah, I see your content sharing you make a minute. I see 7. 1, 2. Okay? Well, good. okay. So next on the agenda case review on voting.

[21:03] case, assignment status and assignment for new cases. Do we want to pull out the assignment status? Or Oh. Do you want that shared on the screen. I am not sure. Do we? Do we need that. It's just a nice reminder of how many cases people signed up for, and I can. Once I find the share screen button again, I can. Oh, it's right in the middle. Do people see this or not? Nope? Oh. okay. I can share it to sherry if you are having trouble. Oh, there you go!

[22:12] Hmm. okay. I think we're good at everyone had the chance to take a look cool. Okay. Oh, do you guys want to keep this up or not? So it probably. Not for voting purposes. Fine. Right. Yeah. Let me know when I, when you want me to stop sharing. I will say, we're good. I'm good. Okay.

[23:02] okay, cool. great. So am I reading the cases. And you're and you're taking notes. Or is that how we do it? Yeah. okay, so let's start with. oh, sorry. I'm just moving slowly. Okay, so the 1st one will be mi, 2024 dash 0 26 votes for reviewing this case. Yes, we want to review it. 1, 2, 3.

[24:01] And oh! Adam, 5. 4. Excellent. Okay. Next case, am I, Tony? Did you take the notes? Nope. Don't you? We usually do votes against or. Oh. yes, I'm so sorry for those of you saying no votes for not reviewing this case. I'm so sorry. Okay. Victor. Abm Bill. Now to the next one. Am. I. 2024, dash 0 40 votes to review this case. Okay, 3

[25:02] votes not to review this case. Okay. okay. Next case MI. 2024, dash 0 4. 1 votes for. Yes, to review this case. Votes for no. Okay. do you have? And. Did I have 5 for now? Or I? Oh, okay. Yeah. Everyone wants to know. next, mi, 2024, dash 0 4, 2. Vote for. Yes.

[26:10] this. Okay. What's for? No? Next case, MI. 2024, dash 0, 4, 3. Vote for yes. Okay. What's for? No. everyone. next will be mi, 2024, dash 0 4 4 votes for? Yes.

[27:05] Okay, what's for? No. Gonna abstain on that one. Okay, I'm abstaining, too. Okay. Mi, 2024, dash 0, 4, 5 votes for? Yes. Okay, what's for? No? Okay. Next case, am I. 2024, dash 0, 4, 6 votes for? Yes.

[28:02] 1, 2, 3, 4, okay. Votes for no. And the last one is mi, 2024, dash 0 4, 7 votes for yes. Was for no. Okay. Do we have all the account. So I'm showing the 2 cases that were selected were 0 2, 6 and 0 4, 6.

[29:00] Yes! We take you on the cases, or are we good. Someone. Are we taking the cases. The my tabulation is that the 2 cases that were selected are 0 mi, 2, 0, 2, 4, 0, 2, 6, and mi, 2, 4, 0, 4, 6. So now we should. The next step would be identifying who's volunteering. Okay. Okay. So for am I? 2024, dash 0, 26 volunteers.

[30:01] Right? Thank you. AB: When would this be? For again AB: the review? When would it be? For again. I mean, that's the tricky thing about these are. It's generally like probably 2 months at the earliest. sometimes as early as one, but generally generally it's several months in advance. Later on. which makes it challenging. AB: So if we're picking it now, if we're saying I'm volunteering now. It could be 2, 3, 4 months before we actually review it. Yes. AB: Okay. Alright, thank you. I thought it would be in the next 2 weeks, and I'm like. No, but that's something that I I think when we talk about complaints, that that's something that people can decide

[31:00] whether the time that we're voting on cases, and then signing up for them makes sense in the process. Okay. So for now we're signing this case. Okay. So we have abio. and we need 2 more at least volunteers. Okay, thank you. Thank you, sir. AB: I have a question again. I'm sorry. AB: Should the people who wanted to review the case, should they be volunteering to review the case? AB: Does that make sense? AB: Not. Necessarily. AB: I'm just asking. You're still expert, even though you may not. You know you still haven't a valid opinion, even though it's not something you wanted to vote for. You could still

[32:01] look at the facts, and, you know, make an opinion based on the skills and the specialities that you bring. AB: Okay, cause I was holding back so that the people who wanted to review it can step in and review it. AB: that's all. I was kind of wondering. Oh, go right ahead ab. I think I think people wanted to take the case for us to the panel to take the case, not necessarily to add it to their list of review. Yeah, I mean, and also for me is, my Caseload is pretty big right now. So I do want the panel to review this case. not necessarily to add it to my list, so. AB: I was. Tried. AB: I was just trying to understand how it works, you know, cause I was like, that's all. Thank you so much. I appreciate you. Very welcome. Okay, so we need one more hand up for this case

[33:05] to to quickly recreate. AB: Fine! Fine! I'll do it. Okay, great thanks, Abie. Okay. And volunteers for a mi, 2024, 0, 4, 6. I know Lizzie had said that she would volunteer for a case, and she wasn't able to attend. So that's 1 person. And I see Milen has her hand up. Yeah, I have mine, too. So oh. I'm typing on a spreadsheet, so I didn't see. Yeah. I I really wanna do it. But I'm not sure. Why don't we do this, Madeleine? If you want to sign up for this case? And then we add, Lisa, so we have 4,

[34:03] and if you need to, not if you can't make it to the, to the time, we still have 3 panel members taking the case. Okay, that that'll work. Okay. Cool. So then that's Milan. Madeleine. Lizzie Abigail. Is that what. Me! Instead of other people. I think so. All of that. Yeah. Unless you really want to take the case up. You have to be my. Apologies. I've you're doing a lot of work, Soledad. So I'm I'm happy to take it. I do want to review this case. Great. Thank you. So if you want. Oh! Go for it. Yeah. I'm taking my name off. Sorry, so. Did Abigail volunteer for both cases. Just for just for the 1st one, I think. No! For both! Oh. Oh, Abigail, yes, you forgot. I'm sorry I was thinking of Ab. So sorry. Oh, I'm gone. Okay. And now I feel like I want to double check my work. So for the 1st case, am I 2, 0 2, 4, 0 2, 6. I have Victor

[35:01] A. B. And Abigail. Yes. And 4, 0 4, 6. I have Milan, Madeline, Lizzie and Abigail. Okay. I'm going to close that spreadsheet, so I don't accidentally screw it up. Now. Okay, so we're right kind of in the middle. So why don't we take a 5 min break and we can be by back here at 7, 35. Would that work. Thank you. Okay, see you in a minute. Take over Victor. Okay, cool. Welcome back everyone. So next we are going to talk about

[36:00] the police chief interview process. And there's actually 2 parts to this. One is super time sensitive. So we really need your attention on this one part, and the second one is going to be a longer commitment. But we've asked about this for time and time again. So they finally told us, Hey, this is how you can engage in this process. So Sherry, if you will share the time. Sensitive they're just. I'll hand it over to you. Sure. Thanks. Yeah, I'm not muted. We have been asked to prepare interview questions. So to have like 2 to 3 interview questions submitted for the police of chief interviews. I have blocked off time tomorrow on my schedule. When I plan on working on that myself, and if people want to join me otherwise people can send me proposed questions.

[37:02] But they are due by the end of day tomorrow. So this is a this is a request that came pretty pretty fast. AB: What times did you block off in your schedule tomorrow? Yes. AB: I'm sorry. Thank you for answering. I think it was. I think, 11. Noon. 11 Am. The noon. Yeah, there's several meetings that got cancelled from me tomorrow. So I am. I am more available than I expected to be. But that's the time that I currently have blocked off. But if people have other times that they want to to meet with me In groups of no more than 2 I am. I will. I will try to make myself as available as possible. And these are questions that would be asked of all the candidates. So but it looks like we're at least gonna have 3 of those you know that we can present.

[38:03] Madeleine. Yeah. Oh. I saw you on mute. I thought you were going to. Oh, well, well, yeah, I was trying. I was waiting. Can. Just so the the intention is that if the panel is interested that there would be during the semi finals. So August 19th and 20. An interview panel devoted to the police oversight panel. If there are, if there is not enough interest, then I think we would get pushed into another interview panel. But to me it's a really good opportunity to meet the the candidates for the chief of police. Are you saying we would interview all 5 candidates? There'd be a panel. They would rotate in front of. That is my understanding. Yeah. And those and the dates that are that we've been told to block our calendars off. If we're interested in participating in that are Monday and Tuesday, august 19, th and 20.th

[39:10] Okay. And so that, okay. AB: And what time would that be? Currently, I'm just blocking those 2 days off of my calendar. AB: But it would probably be in the evening. Are you thinking. No, I would expect it would be during the daytime. AB: Okay. And. AB: The 19th and 20.th Wow! And this is exclusively for us. Correct. That's the that's the opportunity that we have. and. That it'll Milan. I see your hands. Wondering.

[40:02] I've I've voiced my desire to participate in those and with Amy. I think and so I I don't know. I was Oh, I forgot, actually my question. I'm really sorry. Oh, yes, the The participation of the panel is only for the semi finalists. I think that we are the 2 dates the 19th and the 20th is for the semi panelist panelists, isn't it? Yes. So those are the dates that I know of for the semifinals. Yes, okay. In addition to the 3 questions, we can also maybe Wednesday tomorrow. And so tomorrow we I mean, we. We give you 3 questions, and then they're asked to the other candidates to right the

[41:03] the other candidates. But can we watch? The interview? Is what I'm wondering. or are you saying, that the 19th and the 20th is when the questions are going to be asked the 3 questions that we provide. I'm trying to figure out the process. Yeah. And I'm I'm not I'm not sure whether questions that we would submit would be at put into the packet of at for the questions asked during semifinals, or whether some would be semi semi finals and some would be final candidates. Okay. So we had. I guess. a number of candidates that were that was narrowed down to 9 or 10, or something like that correct. I think it's a smaller number now.

[42:00] It's a smaller number now. So the 9 or 10. And so the next phase is semi finals. Okay. Thank you. That's that's what I was not. I was wondering where those 3 questions were going. Now I know. Yeah. And ultimately we will the number of questions that we will be allowed to ask of those finalists is what 3. We were, we were offered the opportunity to, I believe, submit 3 questions, 2 to 3 questions. Yeah. Just so to be super clear. So we have 2 instances that are separate. One is that we send the questions, and those questions are going to be asked whether we're there or not. Okay. So those are going to be added to the pool of questions that the candidates are going to be asked in their interviews. So that's 1 thing, and that's what share is going to be working on tomorrow. So

[43:03] with whoever wants to volunteer to help Wordsmith those questions. And then the second way of us getting involved will be to be present at those interviews. and that anyone in the panel that one wants to participate and can commit to be present at the interviews. Hopefully, all of them. So the feedback is is consistent. That's a second thing. Separated from the questions. So in one hand, we can send 3 questions that are going to be asked to every candidate. On the other hand, any panel member can get involved in the process and participate in the interviews of all the semifinalists. Hmm. okay. Yes, that is correct. And if there are 2 people who want to volunteer, we're looking for those 2 right now on A, BI see your hands.

[44:00] AB: My question is for the semi finalist. You said that it's it's for AB: for panelists to attend, but we don't have a AB: timeframe of when that's happening. AB: It's kind of hard to be there. If I don't know what time. I work. The timeframe is is Monday and Tuesday. and they're trying to schedule all the interviews with everyone attending. So it's kind of a schedule nightmare, I will say, for the folks trying to say that. AB: So we have to wait. And we have 2. Yeah. AB: Okay. AB: we. Actor. Yeah. AB: I can't volunteer until I know those times. That's fine, I I would just say, based on past experience. You know, they're flying all these folks in. They have multiple to help hotel room. They're scheduling, you know. Virtual says it's virtual. Virtual semi. Finals are virtual. Okay? Well, that might make it easier if it's right. Do you have to commit to both days.

[45:02] Yeah. I think you pretty much have to, unless they are, unless they are able to stack them all in one day. Okay, I could do some of the 19, th but not the 20.th So. I think you have to commit to be there to all the interviews. and if it's 5. An hour. Where each hour and a half, so it's not to entire. Right. Gonna be staggered, I guess. Right, but, like Kb. Says, without without knowing the schedule, I can't commit to anything right now, so. AB: You know. Makes it really hard cause. I also have a job. Yeah, well. because I'm looking. AB: Like. I'm looking at the 19th and the 20th in my schedule right now, and AB: I mean, the only time I have available is, and we'd have to be in person. Or is it online? Is it? That's over. Virtual. AB: So the only time that I have available is like 1 30 to 4 on. AB: and then 2 to 2 to 4. I I you know, I'm just.

[46:03] AB: It's a nice, it's a. Big? Asked, yeah? AB: And are they long, are they long? Has anybody been through this kind of stuff before? If you're flying in multiple people, is it something that's like 6 h. It's a virtual interview. Maybe nobody's flying in. Yeah. they won't. In a. Until the finalists have been selected. AB: Okay. But is it something that's 2 or 3 h long? Typically, has anyone done this before? Well, no, because this is our 1st time. AB: Yeah, well, let. I would expect that each candidate is probably I I mean, I'm assuming they block off an hour for each candidate. Yeah, okay, I I did participate. I did participate in the selection process for mares. And yeah, it was extensive. It was long. And I would like to. Also, I would definitely like to volunteer for. Yeah, I definitely want to participate in

[47:02] the 19th and the 20.th AB: Thank you. Yeah. Charlene, I see your hands. Figure it out, okay. Yeah, I just wanted to chime in on the sorry. I just wanted to chime in on the the time piece. So I I was on the panel for the last 2 selection process. Oh! We allotted our panel about like it was between like 60 90 min for each applicant. So I would imagine it'd be something similar. So based on the number of applicants, it would be, you know, 60 to 90 min. Normal. For, you know, 5 or 6 people, so it could be quite, quite lengthy. And was. Wasn't this after even after they did their presentations. Oh, I I don't remember. It might have been the the day before the day after. I don't remember exactly. Oh, okay. Yeah. Well. AB: So with that type of timing. If you're thinking about 6 or so hours, then you're talking about

[48:03] AB: starting, probably in the morning. Yeah. AB: Right? Okay. So I think I mean, we're kind of clean on the process. So why don't we wait until we have more feedback? But for now we need to tackle the questions. Issue. AB: Okay, so. So do we. We have anyone volunteering for tomorrow to help sherry craft? The questions that the panel should send. I I had planned to submit questions of my my list of questions which I have. Usually I do 5. Then you can select. I rank them in terms of the importance priority. And so yeah, I I plan to do that. I won't be able to physically do anything, go to meet with you, siri. I'm sorry, but I will submit them. I'll submit them to you.

[49:01] Can you get those in tomorrow morning? Then thank you for offering to do that. Yeah. But just they need to be in by close of business tomorrow. Oh, yeah, you'll you'll get them. AB: And sherry. You're available, you said, from 11 Am. To noon. Yeah, that's what I have on my calendar. I do have AB: Do you have any other times. AB: 3. yeah, I could. I could also open up that. AB: Like at around 3, 30, or 4 I'd be, I mean, I know it's close to the end of day. AB: Back to school. Man. It's just everything is. Yeah, yeah, I I had several. I had several meetings that just got cancelled, or that were scheduled for tomorrow afternoon. That just got cancelled. So my afternoon is actually more open than

[50:01] I expected. AB: And can it be a call or a zoom, or does it have to be in person? Okay. Have to be in person. AB: Can I text you? Sure. AB: Okay. Thank you. May let us your hand! I'm happy to come and talk to you. Sherry around 11. I will have questions as well. I'll try to send you the question ahead of time. Okay. But if if you don't have 2 other members for 11, I'm happy to show up, then thank you. Thank you, Milan. And anyone else who wants to contribute you can coordinate with sherry via email. Our next agenda item is the the training that we had July 13th at the station. Are we talking about that? The de-escalation training?

[51:00] This is a debrief. AB: When is that again? I'm so sorry. And we're talking about the last training we had just debriefing how it was. Seeing all the equipment, seeing the next level of different levels of force. You, Lynn. I I just want to say that. I think that we need to maybe make the public aware that the escalation for police is not the escalation for most of the people, or not quite the same definition. Since the escalation for police is just basically taking someone in handcuffs and and removing the threat, whereas for me, like coming in, I thought de-escalation was going to be like showing how you talk to people and deescalate their level of excitement, and and

[52:02] you know, so I'm just I was just surprised at the end of the day to have like 2 tables of all the weapons and masks and helmets and shields, and all that, for from a de escalation training. So just want to say that because I think that most people have a different version or a different definition for the escalation. Have a go. I'd absolutely like to second what Milan said. It felt very much to me, informative about how force is used by police, which I feel is very different than de-escalation. which is maybe some interesting, just like language mix matches between people who work in policing and are thinking about how to de escalate situations for themselves, and how people who

[53:07] you know me are in different positions than think about how I would like a police officer to de escalate a situation that I was in. but I did think what maybe I would call use of force, but I think it's a difference in language and community was still useful to see because it helps. I know for me as a panel member. Knowing, okay, is this a problem with a police practice? Or is this a problem with an individual officer? And I feel like the more comfortable I am in being able to identify what like Bpd standard practices, then the more if I'm seeing an officer during a case review do something, I can go. Oh, yeah. So that's what that practice looks like in real life. And maybe we should address that practice versus like. I don't know if that officer like

[54:01] was even doing anything correctly. So I thought I definitely agree with Malin's point, but I thought there was something like maybe different use to it. That was helpful, at least for me. Jerry. Oh, yeah, I was just coming to say that this was the training, because that was. you know, initially offered. And then we ran long. So it was the use of force, defensive tactics de-escalation. So it was to make up for that. So it was not, supposed to be an entire training on de-escalation, and also regarding the the table of equipment. That was a specific request from a panel member that that be presented, so that people could have the opportunity to look at it.

[55:01] Yeah, that was me. I asked for the equipment to be pulled out. They brought it up before so and sterling. I see your hand. I just want to say, thanks to Sherry for making that point. So I was a little surprised that obviously I wasn't at the triangle, a little surprised to hear like people. We're thinking that, like the escalation is different from what the the public thinks might be. So I think it might be worthwhile to have like another training, is very specific to the de-escalation tactics that we that were taught as opposed to including it, like limping it all together with the use of force. Because it is very different. There's especially recently with icat. And I think we've talked. We've heard that term from Redfern and Chief Maris before. There's there's been a lot of very big coordinate effort to use more verbal tactics to, you know, de escalate situations as opposed to just putting somebody in handcuffs and using force that way to de-escalate. So I think again, might be helpful to have another training. It's very specific to de-escalation.

[56:19] Any more feedback on the on the training. No, we'll have the report by the Independent Police Monitor. Just a moment. Okay? And people see the screen.

[57:02] Looks, good. All right. Okay, so this is going to be the August 2,020 for boulder police oversight panel meeting. Independent police monitors report. So regarding case review data for July 2,024, there were full case file reviews completed in July 2,024. as people know we are. I'm scheduling quite a few case reviews, so I think it's good to be. Get back in the swing of things. There is only one case for pace that the panel has reviewed, that we're waiting for the police department's disposition on. and we have a 14 cases that are awaiting panel review which many of you have received, emails for

[58:01] regarding cases that have been completed since July 1, st 2,024 oops the we had a serious misconduct case that was completed. In this case, Officer, one engaged in a vehicle pursuit which resulted in him crashing his police vehicle. He did not broadcast his involvement over the radio and did not comply with multiple provisions of the Bpd vehicle pursuit policy. During the resulting investigation he made false statements about his actions, and he resigned from Bpd. During the course of the investigation. we had multiple allegations in this case, and every one of the panel's recommendations that the allegation be sustained and that the officer be terminated, were echoed in the department's final determinations, and the allegations were rule one.

[59:09] General order 2, 1, 8. Vehicle pursuits engaged in an unauthorized pursuit. Another rule, one. General order, 2, 1, 8. Vehicle pursuits did not communicate details of pursuit in violation of general order 2, 1, 8, 3. Rule one attempted to stop a pursuit. Pursuit vehicle in violation of general order 2, 1, 8, 6, another rule, one did not activate red lights and sirens while in pursuit. another rule, one did not comply with the notification requirements of general order 3, 0 9, 6, rule 2, which is conformance with laws. He exceeded the speed limits without activation of audible and or visual signals required by emergency vehicles.

[60:04] Another rule, too, drove too fast for conditions. Another rule to drove in excess of posted speed limits, and also another rule to violation, of failure, to stop at stop sign An additional rule to engaged in careless driving along with another rule to engaged in reckless driving. and then a rule 3 for truthfulness provided misleading description of his interaction with the Bmw. And then an additional rule. 3. Truthfulness made a false statement to the professional standards. Unit on April 12, th 2,024. I'm additional recommendations and outcomes. During this investigation the police leadership alerted both. The Post police Officer standards and Training Board

[61:07] and the Boulder County District attorney about allegations of false statements. and they also alerted post to the sustained findings. At the conclusion of this investigation. Additionally, the panel recommend that this be considered as a training exercise for both new and current members of the Boulder Police Department. the interim, Chief Redfern effectively said that he agrees, however, he believes that in the present that they will be unlikely to show body worn camera due to possible appeal rights for the former officer, and We also the panel recommended that the police department issue the appropriate traffic tickets to officer one interim. Chief Redfern declined that

[62:02] and basically the explanation was that the loss of the officer's career is going, and the possibility that he has moved out of District is a far worse punishment than receiving traffic traffic tickets and a recommendation to require Bpd supervisors to record conversations on body worn camera. When Bpd members are involved in traffic crashes. This was identified as a reasonable recommendation, and one that we will discuss in an upcoming all sergeants meeting, and I'd also like to add that I had during the course of this investigation, made this suggestion, and in the interim I was invited to make suggestions to an Updated draft of the relevant general Order 3, 0 9. I really appreciate the panel members who attended and reviewed this case. I think it was really interesting with a lot of important points, and I appreciated the thoughtfulness

[63:08] from panel members. And the next case is MI. 2, 0, 2, 3, 0 3, 3. And during a hands-on tactical training exercise Officer One and Officer 2 were paired together to work on a takedown technique officer, one deviated from the Training and Officer 2 was injured. Officer 2 alleged that officer. One's actions were reckless, and, furthermore, that officer, one has not apologized or otherwise taken responsibility for her injury. Officer 2 left for military leave. Shortly after this incident. In the the allegation for Officer one was a rule for respect for others. Violation acted recklessly towards officer 2. During a defensive tactics, training, session, and or did not take responsibility for the resulting interest, injury. The Independent Police monitor recommend that this allegation be not sustained, and the final department determination was not sustained.

[64:08] I also recommended that this officer receive additional training upon his return from military leave. and Bpd. Did provide additional training and supervision when he returned to patrol duty, and they've also developed a standard reentry protocol for all officers who return from extended military leave. I also instructed that Bpd. Pay close attention to any use of force incidents that he may be involved with in the future and interim. Chief Redfern said. I concur with this assessment, and his chain of command is instructed to do so. Another closed case, MI. 2, 0, 2, 3, 0 3 5, and during the apprehension and arrest of a man, officers recovered an item that was consistent with a boulder police department issued hobble, which is a leg restraint. The Arrestee indicated that officer. One provided him with the device, and during investigation Officer one was heard on her body worn camera, using profanity while in public.

[65:17] The allegation is a rule, one violation of general order, 105. Uniform equipment and appearance standards. Officer one did not maintain possession of her. Bpd. Issued hobble. The panel recommended that that allegation be not sustained, and that was the Department's final determination also. and also that officer. One violated Rule 8. By directing profanity at pedestrians, and the panel recommendation was unfounded along with the final department, determination being unfounded. and additionally, the panel

[66:00] through the course of their review, recommended that Bpd audit their inventory procedures for Department, issued equipment and report back to the panel on the process, and any updates and interim. Chief Redfern identified that. He echoes the panel's concerns about equipment tracking and identified that they've been discussing their internal processes to ensure that they have a better understanding of what has been issued, and and to whom? However, in in this particular case, it has been identified that this type of equipment. Along with other generally issued equipment like tourniquets, narcon, and spit socks that there is not currently a way to track track them because they're not serialized but that items that are checked out daily. Like the less lethal weapons. Ads and computers are all serialized and inventoried and tracked.

[67:02] He also indicated that they in 2,023, they changed their inspection process to the ensure that supervisors are more frequently conducting inspection of officers issued gear, and that general order 151 inspections, audits, and department report reporting is being rewritten to be consistent, and once that is complete, they will let the police oversight panel know and in general they're working on a more robust electronic inventory management system that they also will let the department know about, or the panel know about when completed. and another case that was closed. MI. 2, 0 2, 4, 0 0 8. A man who had previously reported. His bicycle was stolen. Contacted Police. When he located his stolen bicycle for sale online. Bpd officers contacted and arranged to meet the seller of the bicycle in a public place.

[68:01] Upon arrival officers questioned the seller about him being in possession of a stolen bicycle, and the seller received a summons, and the bicycle was returned to the original owner. This incident, occurred in 2,021, even though the complaint was not filed until much later, and in the interim an unrelated officer, one resigned from the boulder police department. The allegations in this case. against former officer one was rule, one compliance with values, rules, and general orders. General order 101. Unbiased policing discriminated against the seller because he is a black man. The panel recommended that this be exonerated, and the department determined that the allegation was unfounded. against former officer. One rule 4. Respect for others instructed the seller to sit on the ground. The panel recommended unfounded, and that was the Department's final determination, also

[69:05] allegation against Officer 2. Rule, one. General order, 101. Unbiased policing discriminated against the seller because he is a black man. The panel recommended that this be exonerated, and the department's final determination was unfounded. Officer 2 also received an allegation for rule. 4. Respect for others asserted that the seller knew the bike was stolen, the panel recommended that that allegation be not sustained, and the department determined that the allegation was unfounded. and in addition to those those findings, the panel found the incident fundamentally disrespectful to the seller and Chief Redfern basically reported that he believed that the officers in the case handled the situation appropriately and used less means than they were legally authorized to stop and detain him.

[70:09] He said that they did so in a polite and courteous manner, and that the tone with the seller was respectful. And that the seller, indeed, was charged with a crime. The panel also recommended to encourage the officers to reassess their safety and flight concerns of cooperative subjects in the context of the potential harm. He said. Once the seller was deemed compliant after being instructed to sit officers, should have reassessed the situation in light of the race factor and the understanding of how this interaction might not impact not only the person but also the community involved. And the response was, was quite lengthy from interim, Chief Redfern. and saying, notwithstanding the historical context of policing and the harms that policing has caused in minority communities. Historically, in this case the officers were investigating a crime and used tactics that were appropriate when contacting someone suspected of a crime. There was no indication that any decision that was made was based upon race, and no indication that officers meant to disrespect the seller. The officers appeared to have a desire to recover the stolen property, investigate the theft, and take appropriate action regarding charges.

[71:25] The officers have the right to be safe, and it is documented that officers are harmed regularly when making contacts. The seller did not indicate that he was a threat, but it is not uncommon for someone to start cooperative and change their demeanor during contact. Thus officers are trained to have someone sit in a position to give the officer an advantage should the person want to flee or cause them harm additionally, in this case, officers had a legal basis to stop, and at least temporarily detain the seller, and when this is the case, the contact often ends with an arrest, and it is optimal from a safety perspective to have someone seated when they are handcuffed. Ultimately this case was not handled with an arrest, but that was not determined until some investigation had occurred.

[72:08] A, he continued, that the recommendation that officers treat someone differently based on their race is problematic. We strive to be culturally competent and to understand the historical context of policing and race. But we must take dozens of factors into account on each context. Specifically looking at legal authority, tactics, and officer safety. Our officers are trained to be professional and courteous, and with our ongoing racial equity and Dei training we are providing them with the historical context of race and policing, to allow them to go into different situations with an understanding that different people bring different experiences and historical context to the interaction. In this case, it appears, the seller was treated with respect and courtesy, and it does not appear that this was handled in a different way than any other contact would be. Sacrificing. Safety based on a person's race is not something we can ask our officers to do. We can, however, mandate that they continue to learn and become more culturally competent, which is underway. Internally, I've been present for several of these iterations, and I can share that I've seen our staff take these trainings very seriously.

[73:08] Seriously. Additionally, we are actively encouraging our officers to explain to any detained individual why we are taking the actions we take, or giving directives, regardless of that individual's demographic characteristics. This allows us to address any concerns upfront. Should the subject express concern. Reference concerns referencing the officer's motives. Panel members also requested to attend and participate in racial bias training along with Bpd officers. and the response was, Bpd does not facilitate these training courses, and we are encouraging our staff to be vulnerable and inquisitive during these sessions, having outside entities in the room, would likely detract from those goals goals and lead to less productive sessions. panel members also requested clarity on how the sting operation was org organized and requested related policy.

[74:02] Chief Redfern explained. In this case it is documented in the police report that former officer one reached out to the seller via text and arranged the meeting. It was not arranged by the victim, and he was not on scene when the interaction occurred. He was telephoned later to come, retrieve his bicycle. As this was a routine police operation. There is no specific policy dictating how this should have occurred, and it is covered under regular policies on how we police the use of a ruse to arrange a meeting with a suspect in a case has been held as legally constitutional by the Us. Supreme Court. We discourage and try to prevent the community from trying to set these sorts of meetings up on their own. We do have strict policies and guidelines on how to conduct, undercover operations and police uses of police stings. This case did not involve either of those things on the panel commented that the an officer's comment made about the price of the bicycle may have led the seller to feel he was discriminated against, based on his race. The response was, I reviewed this interaction on video, and it appears that this was strictly meant to point out that it was not normal to be selling a $1,000 bicycle for $100. There is no indication that this was based on the seller's race, and leads to probable cause that the bicycle might be stolen regardless of race.

[75:16] and the final panel recommendation was that the Pd. Should issue an apology to the seller for the trauma experienced interim, Chief Redfern reported, while I am more than willing to issue apologies when appropriate, and have done so. In several cases. In this case there is no evidence of any wrongdoing on the part of any police employee, and I find that there is no indication that any action of any officer caused trauma to anyone. I regret that the seller felt discriminated against. In this case we will continue to work through and engage in best practices and training regarding cultural competency and historical issues surrounding policing race, protected class and other communities that systemic problems have negatively impacted. We will hold all employees accountable should substantiated complaints of racism, discrimination, or intentional infliction of trauma occur

[76:06] at also closed with Mi. 2, 0 2, 4, 9. A neighbor complained that detective ones, visiting family members regularly, park in front of their home and driveway have tossed trash on their property and drove onto their property, disrupting irrigation devices and sod. The neighbor has not found relief when they complain to the municipality where they live, which is not boulder. The neighbor further alleged that detective one intimidates them and boasts that he can do what he wants because he is a boulder police officer. The allegation was a rule. 5 police authority and public trust used his role as a police officer to intimidate and or harass his neighbors, and the panel recommended that this allegation be not sustained, and that was the department's final determination. Also. the panel also recommended that the professional standards unit adopt the practice of offering complainants. The opportunity to provide a telephone statement to Psu

[77:04] interim. Chief Redfern's response was, I will have a discussion with our chief of Staff and the Psu sergeants about this issue to make sure we are forwarding the complainants a phone interview, if they so choose, but also understand that in some cases a written statement could be a more appropriate course of action. and also I will ensure that, if not already done, the detective's chain of command has a conversation with him about expectations surrounding off duty behavior. And in the final case, mi. 2, 0 2, 4, 0 3, 9 officers responded to a busy restaurant regarding an incident where a delivery driver and a restaurant employee engaged in an altercation. Both men called 9. 1. 1 officers interviewed the driver, employee, and multiple customers and witnesses, and then sought advice from a sergeant on how to proceed. Although the the details varied somewhat. The officers learned from interviews that the employee instructed the driver to leave multiple times and push the driver out of the establishment. Multiple times after he re-entered the restaurant.

[78:05] The final time that he pushed the driver outside. The employee also engaged some sort of headlock or neck restraint. The driver refused medical treatment, and officers issued him a trespassing summons. the, the an allegation against officer. One was a rule, one. General order 2, 0 2, 3. Investigation, investigative responsibility and case assignments failed to conduct a sufficient investigation. and this was also the same allegation. That officer 2, and Officer 3, received my recommendation was that the allegation be unfounded in accordance with general order 121, section 8, and the Department agreed and unfounded. These allegations, in accordance with general order 121 dash, or 1 20 dash one, section 8.

[79:01] And regarding the case statistics. So for the month of July 2,024, I classified 12 complaints. 9 of those were misconduct. 0, serious misconduct, 2 community inquiries, one community feedback and 0 conflict facilitation process. I observed 6 interviews responded to 0 critical incident scenes and deemed 3 investigations thorough and complete. and 6 cases were closed by the Boulder police department. Regarding the December 17, th 2,023 fatal officer involved shooting. The only update to report is that I've officially requested the Psu. Prepare this file for the panel to review hopefully. That will be coming soon. and the community engagement. In July 2024, I attended trainings on engaging and building partnerships with Muslim Americans, and how to recognize and respond to anti-semitism.

[80:11] 2 interesting days and I met with a representative from the Department of Justice, Community Relations Service and attended multiple local policy route tables. And that is the end of my report. AB: Thank you. Sherry. Welcome! Thank you. Sherry. Am I still sharing my screen. No. Okay. Thank you. So the next item

[81:00] did you already talk about ride alongs. Just reminding people that ride alongs for panel members who were not who did not join us in March are due by october 19, th so please work with Bethany to arrange the ride alongs again. It's a 4 h. Ride along or a 2 h. Walk along. If that is your preference. It was already mentioned. During the community engagement segment. But what's up? Boulder is an important event for us to do some community outreach, and that is scheduled for September 7.th So we'll be sending out sign up sheets, and I hope to see people there and at the table and hopefully mingling with other city departments. I've sent out a couple of emails about this also. So the Nicole Annual Conference

[82:00] is in Tucson, Arizona this year. It is October 13, th through the 17, th and we are budgeted for 2 people to go. Please let me know so that we can get arrangements made if you're able to attend. As I said in my email, Milen and Soledad attended last year, and they both found it valuable. So if you have questions about the conference you can ask me, or either of them, and I'm sure they can share some insights. And really exciting this year for Nicole is that there is almost an entire day on that 1st Sunday that is set aside for community panels, boards, commissions, whatever they're called. But you could have the opportunity to hear from and network with, and learn from your peers, and also share your experience on that day. So that's really exciting. And I also would like to just say, as as many of you know, I have been sending out a lot of emails for case reviews. Please respond to those as in as timely a manner as possible. And I'm spending too much administrative time trying to just schedule these case reviews, and

[83:13] it's just easier if people can respond as soon as they can. And I thank you so much to the people who have responded. We've had so many great conversations during case reviews. I hope you're finding them valuable. I'm learning a lot from listening to the community voice. Thank you. Sherry. Thank you so much. So at a minimum, you know, checking your city email twice a week. 3 times would be best, but at least to allow you to not miss something. Some things super excited about what's up? Boulder? You lean in the Communications engagement committee. Have been hard at work, so we'll actually have a new flyer to hand out. And so this will spark many future engagements. Now that we have a talking piece, a conversation starter, and we will have more material. But it's something that we haven't had for a while. So it's nice to

[84:06] just get it out the gate and see what that looks like so super excited for that. and we will will need a new co-chair in about 4 months or so. So another reason to go to this Nicole conference in Arizona. If you're thinking about being a co-chair, you know, go to the conference, get some more info and I'm not going. So you know someone else, please. It's a whole week right? So it's not just a 1 or 2 day thing. So it is a big commitment. I I will admit that so. and if not, Soledad's ready to go, her bags are packed. So did you. 10 Victor. No, I did not. Okay. Can you bring kids? I don't know. Kids would love it. Oh, it's super child, friendly. analyzing autopsy reports. Okay, are there any items? That was a little bit of sarcasm. Are there any items that we did not have time to present on the agenda, or that people would like to bring up. Now.

[85:12] before we have public comment. Okay, I do see, we do have one member of the public here. Should I bring up the timer, Selena? Or do you want to do that? Please and then. I can do it. Over. I guess. Just like rules and stuff like that for the speaker as well. Please. Yep for any members of the public. We will give you 2 min to share your opinion, and then. if anyone from the panel would like to

[86:01] comments, We will also give them that ability to respond. I'm not a co-host. Now you are okay. Lynn. You are unmuted. Yeah. Could I have the panel up? Because I don't like to look at a timer or my name? I like to look at who I'm talking to. Okay, I'll restart the timer and you can go ahead. Lynn. And, Victor, are you sure it's 2 min only that doesn't seem consistent with the other boards? Yes, it is 2 min. Okay. I 1st recommend that you go to 3 min. I mean, you get how many hours. And I get 2 min. That doesn't seem right.

[87:09] I appreciate that. It seems there's some cases finally coming up so I can watch the recording. I'm on the Tab meeting, which has a lot to do with policing because of all the development that's going on requiring more policing. Last night I was down at the trident to hear some music, and I saw police car stopped in the middle of the block by the kitchen, so I wandered down to see what's going on. This guy comes out of one of the restaurants and the police take off after him 3 police full speed. They were like racing the Olympics after this guy. One day, 2 down the sidewalk, one down the street. Then the police car turned around, and I just sarcastically said to these people nearby, well, we'll never hear what that's about. you know, and I don't want to feel cynical about the way the police are operating in this community. I want to be able to go up to the police and ask them, Hey, what's going on here? And how can I be helpful? How can the community police themselves more? Because you know what? As we get more and more wealth, disparity in this community, we're going to be helpless to have a realistic protection of people.

[88:27] So we need restorative justice. We need community policing, and I implore you to do something about it. The perfect case example of this is the Allator case at East Boulder, north, Boulder Rec center, where the woman had again the guy that saw she had again didn't even report it. He should be prosecuted for not reporting that she had a gun, because that's why she was killed, not because they had to kill her, because she was. The police came to escort her out. She got, you know, agitated.

[89:04] and came back and put again to someone that she never should have been allowed to someone in the parking lot that put I won't go to the North Boulder Rec Center anymore. And this is where I'm paying my tax dollars. You aren't making me safe. What you need to do is prosecute the public. If they don't say that someone's got a gun, it's so simple and it it doesn't matter that it's fake gun. If it looks like a gun. It acts like a gun. It's a gun. and her life. Hi, Ms upland. Thank you so much. Would anyone like to respond?

[90:04] Alright, thank you. Everyone for your time. And this will conclude our monthly meeting. Thank you so much for your participation and engagement today. Thank you. Bye. Yeah. No. Have a good night. Good evening, everyone.