November 14, 2022 — Planning Board Regular Meeting

Transcript

[MM:SS] timestamps correspond to the YouTube recording.

[0:00] Okay, thank you. All right. I'm calling to order the uh older planning Board meeting on November fifteenth, two thousand and twenty-two. We have a four members present. So we have a forum, and I'm. Calling the meeting to order as of now, and I think we'll start out with either Devin or Amanda reading uh our rules. Yeah, definitely. So I'm going to go ahead here and share my screen. Thanks, John. I'll. I'll actually walk us through this. Um. We do have some members from the public, so i'll go ahead and and walk us through these slides. Um! So thank you, Everyone for your participation today. My name is Vivian Castro Wldridge. I'm. The planning engagement strategist for the city of Boulder

[1:03] Um, and I help facilitate the public engagement parts of these meetings. Uh so as always, planning board starts with open comment from community members. Um, And so we'll be talking a little bit about what public participation will look like in this meeting. Um, and I see there are no public hearings on today's agenda. So, as I mentioned, we'll start with open comment: Um! And we want our participants to know that the city is really striving to lean into a vision co-created by the city staff and community for productive, meaningful, and inclusive civic conversations, and the vision is really designed to promote free conversation and dialogue, while also recognizing that we want to make sure everyone who is participating, um feels both emotionally and physically safe, and we're allow allowing for lots of different viewpoints. Um, in our meetings. Uh we have a lot of information on our website about what we call our productive atmospheres. Vision. Um. And there's a number of rules of decorum that are found in the boulder revised code, and we have some general guidelines that our advisory in nature to share with all of our meeting participants this evening

[2:10] from the community, as well as planning board and city staff, and we ask that all remarks and testimony raised tonight be related to city business. We will not allow any participant to make threats or use any form of intimidation against any person in this session. Obscenities, racial epithets, another speech and behavior that disrupts the meeting, or otherwise makes it impossible for us to continue is prohibited, and we do also ask that participants identify themselves by the name they're commonly known by um and display their whole name, so we can call on you properly uh next slide, please. So we're all in the zoom Webinar format. This means that participants are allowed to speak their testimony, But we will not be turning on video for community members because of the security concerns in this platform,

[3:00] and I wanted to point out there's no pre existing list for signing up to participate today. Um. So if you're in the meeting, we'll welcome you um in this next section to raise your hand um, and let us know and let the chair know that you'd like to give some testimony or sorry some comments um, and on your screen you'll see a couple of ways to do this. At the very bottom of your screen you should see a horizontal menu that has three clickable items, and if you click on the hand, Icon, it'll raise a hand next to your name, and we'll know to call on you. Um! If you have an expanded menu, you can also get to the raise hand, Icon, by clicking on reactions. Um! And I do not believe that anybody is attending by phone, so i'll skip that part for now. Um, no interpretation of this meeting tonight. So it won't go over that um. And if you could turn on the live transcripts, Amanda, that could be helpful. Um! And again, I want to stress that the public participation part of the meeting coming up is a chance for you to share topics outside of the agenda with the planning board.

[4:03] Um! I think that covers the basics over to you. Chair. Thank you, My, you all right. So uh our first item on the agenda is to deal with the uh minutes of August sixteenth, our meeting of August sixteenth, Um. And as everyone had a chance to see them. And uh, I think there have been some revisions made that I hope everyone has also seen um, and i'd be interested if anyone would care to move to approve. Laura, how are you? You're muted, Laura.

[5:00] Okay, we have a markers seconding one, two, three, four, Okay, five. We're All the minutes are unanimously adopted. So thank you. Okay. Next, we move into our uh public participation section and uh, this is the time when people can address planning board on any issue they wish to discuss. Uh, we have no public hearing items. At least we can. You can feel free to raise any issue in the public participation section that you wish. Um! This will be the the only time when there is public comment

[6:04] uh allowed in the meeting. And so now to let us know whatever is on your mind. And uh, i'm not sure who will be running this, whether it's uh, Vivian or okay. Vivian: This will be managing the the like participation section. Now, thank you, John. So I just asked that the the public participating raises their hand. I already see one hand up, and you'll have three minutes to share your comments, and Amanda will be sharing the timer. Okay, please go ahead, David. Back. I am David Bak with our Katie architecture, and I don't know if this is the right time. But i'm just letting the board know that i'm the architect for can travel, and i'm here to answer any questions if they should arise. Um can travel, is

[7:09] requesting that you do not call up the project because they are pleased with the staff recommendation, and I would just like to point out that the increase in building height by four feet is only for the elevator tower, and the rest of the roof is approximately the same height as existing, maybe a little bit more than a foot higher. So that's all I have to say, but would be happy to answer any questions. Okay, Thank you. It's good to know You'll be here in case there's any for further information when we deal with that matter. Okay, Thank you, David. Anybody else.

[8:03] I don't see any hands, but we'll just give it um a couple of seconds. Lynn Lynn Siegel, please go ahead. We have three minutes. Well, I don't know why people can't design their thing with four feet less to include the elevator, because the elevator falls in with everything, and i'm tired, exhausted. I've seen planning board approve one after the next variance for height, you know seven of them for three, eleven Mapleton on on on the will we, the while one interface, You know this is what the planning board does. This is the history of what the planning Board serves, how they serve this community. Now, as far as balsam and pearl and spruce, you should go back to the first concept plan, the one that's legitimate. First of all, that this thing should never have happened in the first, because you need to rezone things so that we have a service or two left in boulder. Pretty soon You're going to put a housing in the grocery stores,

[9:10] you know you're going to put housing every single square into this place, and i'm sorry I don't buy the need for it anymore. Housing just creates the demand for more housing which creates the demand for my jobs under paid jobs which create more demand for more housing. So the first plan, with Ollie from pace at Folsom and Pearl and Spruce, needs to go back to the first iteration, which was apartments, and you know what rents it? It it's not a big distinction between rent and ownership anymore, because our property taxes someone up the street told me in Allwood. They're paying thirty thousand dollars a year for property taxes, you know, and you think they're not gonna pass that on to the renters, you know, If they have renters in their place. You think the property managers aren't gonna pass it along. It's like Ali said. It's all about the land value, as if boulder didn't know that

[10:15] him coming from Aspen largely a lot of his jobs are in aspen very, very lush, high end jobs in aspen. You know this is what we're doing in Boulder. This is this is how planning is working, and we're demi demolishing an eight thousand square foot rock house on the urban wildlife interface basically at Baseline and Flagstaff, and it's just breeze through Landmark's Design Review Committee never even made it to the landmarks board cannot be reversed by the city council who runs this town? Who's at the wheel? A Huntington, James and Hunter House Beautiful estate eight thousand square feet six point one million dollars, so that some folks from England can come here and tear it, you know. Demolish it, and put up as a second home.

[11:14] You know that's what we're doing in Boulder, I think again. Done. Thank you, Lynn. Okay, I see no other hands raised. So that, uh, concludes the public participation. Part of the meeting over to you. Chair. Thank you. All right. Uh, we'll move now to a discussion of dispositions and call ups uh we have two or one item uh to deal with as a as a potential call up, and that is a site review amendment for an addition to increase floor area of an existing technical office use from six thousand three hundred and fifty, one square feet to nine thousand three hundred and fifteen square feet uh. It. Does. Uh anyone wish to inquire about this, or call up this matter.

[12:11] Mark. Thanks, John. Um. So I have. I have a question uh, and a a kind of a statement about this particular project. Um, But first I want to put every one of these. I'm not going to call, but I I do have some uh questions. Um, How does Staff view the Tdm plan as was submitted for this uh recommendation to approve this? And if the applicant wants to address this or whatever. But anyway. Just I i'm curious about Staff's view of the Tdm plan for this project, and I have a kind of a detailed question, and that is as I went to the using the mapping tool that I recently become familiar with.

[13:13] There was a plan submitted on three, three, and a plan submitted on seven seven um, and I don't think there's much of any difference. But uh, if there, if there is, i'd like to know about that and um the staff view this Tdm plan as as adequate. Um Thanks for the question. Mark. First, I would say that Shavnum based uh our case manager couldn't be here this evening. She has some family obligations, and we don't have anyone from uh transportation engineering here. The only thing I think I could say is that in looking at Staff's analysis, Staff found that the proposed Tdm plan is consistent with the toolkit and the parameters that um

[14:00] have been adopted, you know, by the city for these kinds of development. So I think our transportation engineering step found that the offsets provided by the Tdm: Um, We're going to be suitable for the use. Thanks. So okay. So i'm just giving everyone a warning. Here, I'm just gonna uh talk about this Tdm plan using this project as an example. So the the applicant again. I'm. I'm. Not going to call this up, but I I hope that the applicant takes this message back to the applicants. Consultant, Lsc. Engineering, and and I hope that um staff Here's my message, and I'm only speaking for myself as a planning board number uh tonight, and that and that is what i'm gonna say is that the continued use of the draft two thousand and eleven toolkit, in my opinion

[15:00] uh, and treating that toolkit as though it was adopted as well as code. Uh, is it it shouldn't be done? It should stop uh, by both applicants and staff as a as a mechanism to approve or deny projects going forward. So the Lsc. Uh. Which is one common consultant, we have others that that develop Tdm plans uh for projects that are brought to us. Um! They're not the only ones, but they are. They are certainly one that uses this frequently. Uh this is a plan that was a draft in two thousand and eleven that was never adopted. It's not part of the code, and if you read the Tdm portion of the code, it it doesn't refer anywhere to this. So we have a Tdm. Um. We have code that refers to Tdm. Plans that are required,

[16:01] and it does, and our code is not refer anywhere to this draft uh ordinance. And so um uh, So I find that this two thousand and eleven draft is outdated. It's inadequate. It's old it doesn't it doesn't Reflect the realities of the world today, and i'm not asking. I want to acknowledge that. Um. I'm not trying to put something on Staff's work plan. Uh: we know that from last Thursday's Council Meeting that staff has a work plan is directed by Council, and and so I'm. I'm not suggesting that uh this be part of Sas work plan. It's not my place to do that. I simply want to say that we have a Tdm. Code, and it doesn't include this: this thing that keeps being brought up. What we have is a code that is two things. It is flexible. Yay,

[17:04] and it's subjective. There are very few objective requirements in our Tdm code. So there's a tension between being flexible and subjective, and so I would ask that both staff and applicants and and staff convey this to applicants that when you develop a Tdm plan, you look at the code, and you think, Gee, I should be creative, I should take advantage of this flexibility. I should be forward thinking I should think, about the city's climate goals, our equity goals, our transportation goals, as stated in the Boulder Valley Comprehensive plan and in the city's Transportation master Plan and use your ability to create a Tdm plan that acknowledges the electrification of cars, the electrification of bikes, the sharing of transportation resources uh the how we have adopted Vision Zero for the safety of our citizens and

[18:09] make vision. Zero a part of your parking lot, your corner and um uh so. And it stopped using what is currently this tool that is kind of checking a box. So um, you know I I I view implementation of transportation, demand management, just like implementation of of the American with Disabilities Act that this is something you do. You have a Tdm plan when you're expanding or changing a use, or going through a site review, and uh, i'm not making this as a threat or anything. I would simply say that if if plans continue to come forward with what I think are inadequate uh Tdm. Plans, then they're far more likely to be called up, and that means more work for everyone. And I think that the flexibility and the uh subjectivity of the plan can actually be a tool in the favor of developers and applicants and staff.

[19:12] Uh. And so I would urge us to use our creativity and our flexibility to um have present projects that come to us for approval or for a call up, or lack of call up, and to uh, use your creative thoughts about your Tdm plans. So again, i'm not trying to rain on this applicants parade. I just using them as an example. What I think is a deficiency in our system without trying to add to steps workload. So that's the end of my little speech. Okay? Well, thank you. Mark that. That certainly sounded like a heartfelt plea to everyone concerned, and I I have to say it. You were very persuasive. So thank you

[20:04] all right. There's a Ml. The clarity with which you approach, approach that particular subject, and hopefully, yes, it will resonate where it needs to. Um. The only thing I wanted to talk about say i'm not going to call this up. But um! I think there was a member of the public saying that, implying that there wasn't height variance being proposed here and there isn't this building is um all in compliance with the regulations for that zoning. And um there really isn't anything that they're asking for beyond that. So um I see Charles nodding. That's correct. Yes, um. So I just wanted to make that point that nobody's asked for a variance here. It's just straight up. Use by right. And um!

[21:02] I am not going to call it up, either. I think it's a a fine plan, and um! I wish them good luck and getting it built. Thank you. I'm all um. I have a question uh of staff. Uh we dealt with this uh land and project uh several weeks ago, when a a vacation request was requested uh to move the the quite the um sidewalk, and uh around the on the um northwest corner of the property um, which we which we uh raise no objection to. Um. I'm just wondering if that land had not been vacated by the city. What consequences would that have had for this proposal in terms of how the city dealt with it.

[22:01] Um. Ultimately, I think the applicant would have had to design around it Um! To ensure that we had that level of connectivity on the corner there to support um. You know the sidewalk and multimodal functions. So ultimately it would have forced a design change, I think so, shifting the building or chamfering the corner to help um support that connection, and that would have been required because they would have had a setback. They wouldn't have met the setback requirements. Um, it's less of a setback issue, and just more of a site planning issue, and how to accommodate. You know the building and um the ultimate design of the sidewalk. Um connection there. So a setback is something that can be modified through site review if it had to. Um. I think in this case it was just a set, a preferable site design issue.

[23:03] Okay, all right. Well, thanks very much. I just couldn't resist inquiring about that. I think there's also some grade on the corner there, John, that they were trying to account for to in the new design. So I think that might have driven some of their design decisions as well. Okay, thank you. Well, any further questions, all right, seeing it looks like we won't be calling this up, since no one has uh indicated they see the need. So um congratulations. The applicant on the moving moving past us, I guess, at this point. So all right. So uh that is the only uh uh call up issue. We're dealing with tonight, so we'll move ahead now to uh uh in the information item. We have no public hearing item tonight, and so we're going to be dealing with the comprehensive planning of uh older junction. Hayes, too, and congratulations to Christopher on

[24:12] finally getting us to deal with it. I I have to uh apologize for the delays that have taken place so long. But i'm glad we're we're finally able to focus on it now. So please take it away. Great thanks. No, no apologies necessary. And uh, I will do my very best to fill the uh impressive shoes of Sarah. Course, our principal city planner, who um is the project manager for this project? Um, but is unfortunately uh office here this evening, so I will fill in, and I'm. Also joined by Vivian Kester Wldridge, who, you know, uh who is serving as our community engagement strategist for this project. So let me go ahead and share. Uh, Christopher, Just so. You know your audio is kind of fading in and out a little bit, maybe hard for some people to hear. If there's anything you can do to strengthen that

[25:08] I will hopefully get that result. Does it sound any better now? Sounds about the same to me. Why, Don't, I proceed? Uh, really quickly. When I proceed for a few slides, and if it's still problematic. You can let me know. Does that work? Okay, Sounds great, all right. Well, we'll We'll get started here, and uh, so as as Uh John has introduced. My name is Christopher Johnson. I'm. The comprehensive planning manager. Uh for our planning and development services. Um team, and i'm joined here uh with Vivian to walk through the presentation on the scope of work and community engagement approach erez agmoni for Boulder Junction. This project, you is probably a little bit unique in terms of the planning efforts that you, as planning board, have seen recently, and that we are building upon one hundred and fifty

[26:08] uh an existing plan starting to move into implementation of the second half of that. Um, So it's a little bit different than, say the East Boulder subcommunity plan. That was really something that was generated from scratch. Um. So this this project itself will move along at a slightly faster pace uh with a slightly different community engagement approach than maybe we've seen recently. Um. But as as you probably are aware of and understand, this is the transit village area plan as an existing plan. Um. We are proposing to sort of shift away from the transit village area plan or team that nomenclature a bit. Um, it's It's a bit of planning jargon. And uh, really, I think the community is uh is more, you know, comfortable or just uh understands this area known as Boulder Junction. So we're gonna uh move towards that kind of name uh, and moving forward. If we do use the the Tv app acronym, or refer to the Transit village area plan, it'll be when we're referring specifically to the plan itself,

[27:09] and then use Boulder Junction as a reference to the project in the neighborhood. So we'll cover two main topics this evening. Uh, we'll offer some preliminary background on on the plan, on the existing transit village area plan, and describe our preliminary scope of work and the implementation of Phase two. And then we'll also uh go through the initial approach for the community engagement uh for the project. So before we go on. I want to just remind everybody of the sort of three questions that we are looking for some response and comments from you this evening. Um! So First of all, does planning board have any feedback on the draft scope of work? Uh. Does planning Board have any feedback on incorporating additional place, making detail as part of the Plan amendment, which will explain that in a little bit more detail here shortly, and then, finally, any feedback from you on the draft approach for community engagement

[28:05] mit Ctl. And so there's two kind of primary outcomes of the project itself. The first would be to update the transit village area plan through a plan amendment here, and that would address potentially some changes to the plans Land use one hundred and fifty Uh. Proposed land uses, mobility, connections, and the place making elements that are described for the phase. Two area. Um, We are focusing specifically on those three topics. We are not uh proposing to start from scratch and rework the entire plan or its goals and recommendations. Those are all still very valid, so we want to be targeted and strategic with our approach, and just those few items Um. The second outcome would be ultimately be an implementation strategy for the phase, two area, so that'll have a variety of components relative to phasing financing strategies for the infrastructure improvements that are necessary, and also some regulatory updates. So that could be changes to the zoning code that would apply to this area um expansion of the general improvement districts that currently apply in the phase one area. So a couple of different regulatory mechanisms that could be included within that implementation strategy

[29:14] uh phase two. And really this project itself implementing phase. Two of this plan was identified as one of the top priorities by city council. Um, we've been able to, you know, Build our team back to full capacity here, Um. And and are able to find and begin working on this priority project, and we're we're excited to to get get you on here quickly. Um! Just a quick refresher. So the the area plan itself was originally adopted in two thousand and seven establishes a vision to really guide development within this Boulder Junction area. Uh, and then there is also an implementation plan that um was also adopted in around that same time two thousand and seven that really identifies what would be implemented, and by who and how and when most of that implementation plan is focused on the phase, one area and sort of outlines, some of the infrastructure improvements and things like that. But it does make some references to the phase. Two area includes um, a couple of key infrastructure uh items that to be improved as as part of this implementation.

[30:18] So just to Orient, everybody kind of geographically Boulder Junction is uh generally bound by down on the north Foothills parkway on the east uh the railroad and the North Boulder Farmers Ditch, on the south side, and just south of Pearl Parkway. There and then Thirtieth Street on the west there there is a small portion that's to the west of Thirtieth Street, and that's generally the location of the new fire station number three that is starting to move forward. So the two main phases that were identified within the plan itself for implementation of the land use changes and infrastructure improvements. You can see here on the graphics, so phase one was generally everything west of the railroad tracks. One hundred and fifty

[31:01] phase two is generally everything to the east. Um! That area with the fire station that's on the west side of thirtieth was actually identified as Phase two a uh and was um. The land uses uh were updated in the last Boulder Valley comprehensive plan. Update back in two thousand and twenty one. So the focus of this project you can see outline there the blue on the right hand side uh east of the railroad. Um, And that's the area of the primary focus for this project. So in order to uh move forward with phase two, and really initiate this project. The implementation plan Um sets forward three criteria Um, Essentially that we need to be able to demonstrate that the phase one area has been substantially completed. There's a market study requirement to confirm the market support and demand for the land uses that are posed in phase two and then um, and then a plan for providing those major infrastructure improvements Uh, that would be necessary to really facilitate redevelopment, or or be, uh, you know, occur at the same time as redevelopment.

[32:09] So Staff is already moving forward in the process of completing what we're calling the phase, one substantial completion report. It will include a variety of quantitative and qualitative information about the development that's been completed. So far. Um. A few major takeaways that I think, are important to identify that we're um part of the phase. One uh work is that uh, there was. There was a number of uh regulatory updates that were uh included at the beginning of that of that effort. So there's been changes to the Boulder Valley comprehensive plan, land use map. There was the creation of a form based code that applies to the phase one area. There were some additional code changes that really ensure development doesn't outpace the infrastructure and can, and making sure that future development contributes to the multimodal transportation goals in this area. And then there were two general improvement districts that were established to help pay for, and ultimately manage the parking structure and

[33:08] Tdm. Programs in this particular area. A couple of other things that come out of the ground literally uh within phase. One is that, uh, there is approximately one thousand five hundred new residential units, and over three hundred permanently affordable housing units as part of phase one, so it's. It's about twenty little bit more than that. Uh, There's new hotel restaurants, The preservation of the historic depot building a bunch of pedestrian and bicycle and multimodal improvements through the street infrastructure and some additional flood protection and Greenway enhancements. And of course, the Rtd. Regional transit hub, which currently is unfortunately very under utilized due to service cuts, but we are very hopeful. Uh and through conversations with our Tv it's um anticipated that there will be some level of bus service that comes back to that um to that regional bus facility.

[34:03] So uh, I want to also. Then touch base quickly on the land uses that are currently proposed in the plan. Uh, because of that market study is is a component of of us moving forward and initiating this um second phase of work. So I I think it's important to kind of focus in and just look at what's in the plan currently. Uh, and then talk a little bit more about how we might reinvestigate some of those uh, some of those recommendations. So there's currently five different land. Use categories that are identified within the phase two area. You can see them in the old text on the right, and the legend Um. One thing I will note is that those land uses that are proposed are unfortunately not directly linked to the land uses within the comprehensive plan. So one of the one of the things that we would do as part of the regulatory updates here and adopting any changes to the Comp plan. Land use map is that we have to translate what is in the plan to to one of those comp plan land uses going forward, so just adds a little level of complexity here, but wanted to make sure everybody was aware of that.

[35:11] So i'm going to step through each of these really quickly. Just so you get a sense of what is currently proposed within the transit village area plan. So the first land use is this high density residential to Uh. It is on the identified there on the north side of Goose Creek. Uh. It would allow for proposes to allow uh stacked flats and multi unit residential buildings, two to five stories in height, approximately twenty five to fifty dwelling units per acre, and ultimately those structures would likely contain underground or structured parking, just in order to meet those those densities. Um, the images you can see there on the right uh actually come from the plan itself. So take those with a grain of salt. They're fifteen years old uh, and you know, don't get too tied in with the architecture. Uh, It's just gives you a little bit of a sense of uh kind of the overall sort of scale that that could be envisioned within that particular land use.

[36:07] So the second one is industrial mixed. Use one. This is the located currently, or shown around the area of the old Pearl Street, there to the north of Pearl Parkway. Uh. It would allow for light and service industrial, some small scale technical offices uh live work units, and perhaps some residential that's mixed in vertically or horizontally within that um more kind of industrial light, light, industrial and service type of use. Uh, it anticipates, you know relatively low uh far, and scale one to three storey buildings uh and uh parking, either in a structured format or potentially even service parking being maintained in this area. So the third one is industrial mixed use to uh. You can see that primarily. That is the large area south of Pearl Parkway, but it does extend just a little bit uh up to the north, and kind of adjacent to foothills, and then a small portion next Goose Creek and adjacent to the railroad

[37:05] Uh. This would allow for essentially greater intensity than that. Industrial makes use one area, so it envisions a a stronger mix of residential office and industrial uses could conceivably be three to four story buildings up to about one point, five to two far um, and structured parking the fourth one and final that i'll touch base on. Here is the office of industrial, and this is the northern portion of the phase. Two area you can see highlighted there. Um really what this is uh anticipating or or proposing is an intensification of what the existing conditions are in this particular area. If you're if you're familiar with it. It's uh generally sort of one to two story office and industrial type of buildings uh primarily office uh the the proposal here, in terms of land use would uh intensify that slightly to the three storey, industrial or office building sort of, you know, zero point seven to one F. They are in a mix of structured and surface parking

[38:08] uh the connections plan that the the area plan also includes a transportation connections plan. So that's obviously directly correlated with the proposed land uses. And um really we, you know, in conversations we've had internally, and also with city council. We don't anticipate any really significant changes to the to the connections plan here. Um, Even if there were some changes to the proposed land uses Generally the overall connections plan is um, you know, is, it remains pretty well in tax. We certainly would anticipate as part of this project going to uh going to Tab, going to the Transportation Advisory Board to get their feedback on the connections plan, and this will be part of our community engagement as well um to see if there are some minor adjustments that we might need to consider as part of this project

[39:00] uh the other thing that the area plan identifies our character district. So these are somewhat analogous to kind of an urban design description of different neighborhoods or areas within the overall boundary of the area plan Uh, within phase two E. Uh. There are three different character districts. The Wilderness Place, old Pro District, and then Pearl Parkway, Uh. Each one of these has some different district Guidelines There include some recommendations for things, such as trying to general building, design, placement, orientation, some pedestrian amenities and way finding. So these are also some areas that we uh plan to investigate as part of the project, and i'll touch base quickly on each one of these. So wilderness. Place this uh the character district that's to the north basically include some recommendations to place taller buildings near a foothills, parkway, Orient buildings that are along goose creek towards the creek itself include some multi-use paths, as well and include wavefinding

[40:05] the old Pearl district Ah, similarly kind of you know, recommends taller buildings near foothills Orient buildings towards Goose Creek, and and place parking behind buildings to create a a better pedestrian experience, one hundred and fifty, and then, finally, the Pearl Parkway area, which is to the south. There, Um would be. The recommendations are to improve the North Boulder Farmers ditch in this particular area uh, and design buildings that are adjacent to that, to take advantage of that as a potential amenity. And really, uh, throughout all three of those there is recommendations to provide multi-use paths for pedestrians and bicycles. So when we started thinking about the phase two. Uh, you know, we really began to think about uh, the essentially the age of the plan. Fifteen years on there's uh, you know, the the city has changed significantly there. Uh, but also there's now people that are actually living in the phase, one area where there weren't before. So it's really a different context that we're dealing with. Um. Now, here in two thousand and twenty-two, we're back in two thousand and seven, So that's partly why uh Ultimately we went to City Council

[41:15] uh with two different options Um uh back a couple of months ago. So we first presented two options that were essentially one option was to just move forward with the plan as it is, and implement it as as it stands today. The section, the second option uh proposed uh a slightly longer and expanded scope. Um! But it was to reevaluate some of these proposed land uses and mobility connections to make sure that they are aligned with the comprehensive plan, and current market trends and community needs. So city council ultimately directed us to move forward with the second option. So um take the time that is necessary I include a much more robust community engagement process to look at a few different alternatives, and ultimately come back to you and planning Board and the City Council with the Plan Amendment to update the plan, you know, based on what we learn.

[42:10] They also important, reiterated the importance of engaging the community on the outcomes of phase one so to really learn about what's working and what's not working uh and to explore, You know this notion of place making and urban design uh, particularly in the phase two area, and what the connection is back to back to phase one. And we really really Boulder Junction as a whole. How can we build on the place making aspects? So where we are? Currently, we're in what we're calling task zero, which is, basically, you know, scoping of the project. Uh, we are getting very close uh to kind of wrapping that up. And um, you know, you're really kind of the last stop.

[43:00] So we are moving forward with the project scope the schedule uh developing a budget and a scope for that market study that'll be required as one of the really um early tasks moving forward. Uh, and then we move into task one. So, as I mentioned, we hope to really get this moving. Um uh, actually starting to move already. Uh, here through quarter, for which is the background inventory in the phase one report that I mentioned. So we have already started work on that, but then formally would would kick off some of the more uh community engagement and outreach activities uh in quarter. One of next year. Uh the you know, they think the key area here, the key component of task one is really to analyze uh some of those outcomes of phase one uh talk to people that are that are living there and really understand. Um, You know how that is working uh for people that are living there Now, also understanding that it is, it is still a construction site. There's still a tremendous amount of construction activity, so it it is not a fully complete uh place yet. And so we have to, you know. Make sure that we

[44:16] uh task. Two, then, is is really where we get into the analysis of the of the plan, and, uh, where some changes might actually occur. So this is our needs assessment alternatives, and preferred approach tasks. So this is when we will be reaching out to the community and gathering a lot of information, and also meeting with, uh yourselves and other boards to really explore uh some potential changes to to the plan itself. So we will develop uh alternatives to those land uses that are currently proposed. Look at a um evaluating those, and ultimately come up with a preferred approach uh for those for those land uses, and uh, potentially, the the transportation connections and the urban design and place making aspects.

[45:02] Um, the market study that I had mentioned. That would be um part of our task. One will ultimately then also feed into this, needs assessment and provide information to really understand what the current anticipated land use needs are. Uh task. Three, then, would uh, which we hope to initiate by the sort of end of uh end of summer, moving into the fall of uh of next year, which uh would be the plan amendment itself. So we would move forward with the Plan Amendment adoption process, and we hope to include the uh, comprehensive plan. Land use map updates as part of that process, so really bring those two things together uh as a package through planning board, and ultimately city council, which would then allow us to move into task four. And there's a little bit of overlap here when we have a good sense of a preferred alternative where we can really move into the implementation steps. So developing an implementation strategy that really looks at the infrastructure needs uh the financing requirements,

[46:11] and then moving very quickly into a task five, which is the regulatory implementation. So I've mentioned uh, we don't know exactly what that looks like yet, but it could involve uh some zoning code updates, perhaps expansion of the form based code expansion of the general improvement district. There's a number of things that we will be evaluating and hopefully implementing um by early of two thousand and twenty four. So finally, just in summary. You know, we anticipate the full scope of the project to be about eighteen to twenty-one months uh there's a number of staff members that have been identified that are part of it, part of the project moving forward and then engaging other departments as needed. Uh, and then from a funding perspective uh, relatively light in terms of consulting services. Um, But we will need to engage outside assistance for the market study, and then also the form based code updates. Um, if if that is indeed something that we do to move forward.

[47:10] So, Vivian, i'm going to pass it on to you to talk specifically about uh community engagement, maybe, and you're muted, I think. Oh, sometimes just putting this down doesn't seem to work. Um, great. Okay. So i'll now walk you through how our approach to community engagement aligns with each project task uh to ensure the project team receives the information that it needs from an engagement at the right time in the process, and that the engagement is really focused. Um! The engagement plan we shared with you in the memo spells out in more detail all of the different tools that we envisage using to support each task. Uh, and thank you, Laura, for already sharing some comments with us by email. So, as Kj. Mentioned, we're in the project scoping phase, and the focus here is to consult with Council and with you the planning board on the scope of work and the engagement plan. We're also initiating the racial equity instrument

[48:09] to ensure the project uses. A racial equity lens for for both the process and for also shaping the recommendations that will determine outcomes. Ultimately we're in the process of recruiting community connectors, and we'll seek their advice on this engagement approach um and discuss the issues likely to be of interest, or have an impact on people of color and low-income members of our community. Next slide please, so during task, when the engagement focuses on on building, awareness and understanding of the project and of the process to be followed, and we'll take advantage of the amazing opportunity of being able to learn from phase one, so that we make sure we build on those lived experiences to date, and the lessons shared with us by a diversity of people, including city staff, knowledgeable about the implementation struggles and and successes. Uh, we'll use the information gathered during task one to further strengthen and elaborate the racial equity instrument as well.

[49:10] And uh, during task one we'll start reaching out to other agencies like Dr. Cog, Rtd. And the county for updates on their plans and programming that could potentially impact on on the project. And by this phase we should have on board uh project specific community connectors who will support the project until it's end with advice, intentional outreach to underrepresented communities um and co-design and co facilitation of of some meetings and we're aiming to have at least one connector who currently lives in the phase one area to work with us. Next slide, please. Here we propose to move into a deeper level of engagement than for the previous tasks, as we expect to have more detailed conversations on preferred approaches for the Plan amendment. Um, and we'll do this through focus groups with the stakeholders most likely to face direct or significant impacts.

[50:07] Um, and also ensuring representation of of underrepresented communities and and different interests. Um our engagement focus for for task. Two includes: first, seeking input on potential amendments, second, discussing and understanding the impacts of different scenarios for these plan amendments uh and third, working through constituent specific focus groups. I mentioned that we'll we'll set up to identify, preferred recommendations, and then subsequent, subsequently seek feedback um from the broader community and and yourselves the Board and Council on these refined options and recommendations. Next slide, please. I wanted to spend a little bit of time talking about the focus groups. As this is where our most in-depth conversations will happen with the community. Um, Starting in task two where we discuss the options for plan amendments

[51:04] and the focus groups do complement the broader community engagement that will will have like larger meetings and online questionnaires. And such um focus groups are slightly different than a working group. So they're They're both designed to have conversations in a smaller group. Um, but working groups like you may be familiar for East Boulder, for example, typically have representation of different interests. Um. And are really useful for that kind of area sub community plan. Um, And we're not going, taking that approach for this plan. Implementation Um. So we're proposing to use focus groups to really focus the conversations on the issues to be most relevant. Um or of interest to each constituent type that we're targeting. So we can really have in depth conversations. Um and some discussions might need to be more technical in nature than others. Um! And then the project team, including myself, will process that feedback from different groups. Um. And you know, if there's any major points of tension. We can go back to the focus. Groups, if needed, might be iterative process.

[52:09] Um. And we'll also be uh when seeking feedback from the broader community. Through the larger meetings we will aim to be transparent and sharing the feedback that we've received um from focus groups and and other tools, and sharing how it's shaping the project Team's. Recommendations. Um. So our proposals to have a focus group with people living, working and commuting to or from Boulder Junction. A second group comprised of property and business owners; Third group with advocacy groups, Um and a fourth group with developers and design professionals, such as architects, um engineers, planners, et cetera. Next slide, please. During Task Three. The engagement will be through public hearings, and the information about the day and the time of hearings and draft documents will be shared through various channels and direct mailings to impacted properties.

[53:05] Next slide, please, and to flesh out the implementation strategy. Um. Some of the focus groups would be activated again to talk about specific elements of the implementation strategy and provide their feedback. So we'll have targeted consultations to seek specific inputs on the changes, for example, to the form based code or on partnerships. To implement major infrastructure improvements is some examples and council planning board, and the broader community will be consulted as well. Next slide for the final task of regulatory implementation. The communication here focuses on informing the public of the zoning changes and code updates and circling back or closing the loop to share how the input received by all stakeholders has shaped the outcomes. Um. We like the example of the East Boulder engagement scrapbook. Some of you might be familiar with, and we'll have a similar scrapbook to document engagement, not only at the end, but also throughout the process.

[54:09] Next slide, please, and this is my last slide. Um! So I've walked you through. How engagement supports each project, task and output. Um. And In conclusion, I just want to stress that we put our efforts into developing a plan that we think will lead to clear focused, inclusive, and transparent engagement. Um, and will also allow us to have helpful conversations with diverse voices. And we've also built some flexibility uh to adjust the plan as needed throughout. Um, just to make sure we're always meeting our engagement goals. So that concludes this portion. Um. And I really look forward to your feedback back over to you, Chris. Sorry about that. Thank you. Vivian. Um. So just to close things out uh really is in terms of next steps. So you are aware. Um, we are here to get your feedback this evening, and then we will make, you know, final refinements to the scope of work and the engagement approach based on your feedback.

[55:15] Uh? And hopefully then formally launch the project early next year. Um! And with that I think we will just move into this discussion. So I will flash these three questions up again, and then I can unshare my screen so we can see each other. But i'm happy to go back to any slides. If anybody has any questions about anything specific that we spoke to. Thank you all right. That was a quite a nice presentation. I appreciate it. Then. Okay, i'll open it up to uh planning board members to to try and be as responsive and thoughtful as possible. And uh, just a comment, Laura, I know you emailed some comments. Um, and it might be uh,

[56:05] I think it would be useful if you uh uh spoke about them in in this situation also, so that the rest of us are fully, and the public are fully aware of your thoughts There, too. Uh, happy to do that. Let me let me pull those up, so I I um. I bugged staff about this project twice. First I sent some uh general feedback um on at around the time of our November first, the first time that we uh had this item in our packet, even though we did not end up talking about it at that meeting, and then I sent a couple of questions. I think, early this morning that um came up upon reread, so I don't want to monopolize the air. So why don't I go into my email and pull up those two sets of comments, and we can circle back to me if if other folks have questions or comments they want to start with. And And, John, are we just so? Are we going right to staff's? Three focus questions, or are we doing sort of general questions and comments at this point

[57:10] be as responsive to the staff requests as possible. I I would like to have some sort of explicit focus on those three questions as well. But certainly general comments are appropriate and and welcome. I think so. All right. Mark has his hand up so you can. You can start out? Okay, Thanks. Um, uh, I i'm gonna start off with a question, and that is, does the Boulder Valley comprehensive plan in form? The we'll call the Boulder Junction Plan. All my notes are written as feedback, but we'll call Boulder Junction. Yeah, you know the T that phase two plan, or is it the other way? I I Somewhere in the memo it referred to revising

[58:02] the comprehensive plan based on the final outcome of the T back to plan, and while I I I guess I understand that it also seems to me a little backward that in the sense that it seems like the the goals and the general framework of the Bbc. Should inform the scope of work and the whole set of plans for the Tv to. So that'd be great. Sure, that's a great question, Mark. Um! And I think you've got it correct both ways. Um. And and because essentially, you're right. The comprehensive plan uh, absolutely is is the guiding document that will drive a lot of our decision making for the area plan itself. I think the reference to making revisions to update. The comprehensive plan was more

[59:01] directly related to. If we make uh, if we make changes and we we process and adopt a plan amendment for the area plan. Uh: we ultimately will need to make land use map changes to the comprehensive plan. So then we would go through that process to update and revise the comprehensive plan map to make sure that it's consistent with with what is being proposed uh through the area. Plan. Okay, Great um, A A Another question is, so we have, uh, because of our late meeting the other night, keeping you up, and I really apologize for that. And then coming at at the last minute you have subsequently gone to council. Is that right? You've gone to council with with the same set of questions, and essentially council has a Well, what what did Council say to these questions, and and not that our input? Is a valued or anything. But I just want to understand. You have received direction by council. Is that right?

[60:04] Th: That's correct? So we we initially went to City Council on uh September twenty second, I believe. Um, with really just that fundamental question of Do we proceed with the plan as written? Or do we crack it open and make a few adjustments based on You know the the context of what we're working with today. Um. Then we had originally planned to write. Meet with you on November first, and then we we had a larger uh planning and development services. That work planning conversation teed up with council on November tenth. So that essentially what what happened was, you know, since we weren't able to meet with you on the first. We went into that meeting uh last Thursday. Um. And essentially just provided a an update that we had refined the schedule and uh, the the tasks, and really the the sort of sequencing of the project based on their earlier feedback. Um, The only other, you know, comments that uh Council provided last Thursday.

[61:06] Um! Was that? Uh, you know. There, there's an interest obviously to to get something concrete, uh, you know, finished uh next year. During that during the council session, while they're still um in their seats. And so we had made some adjustments to really move forward and bring forward that plan. Amendment process. Um. We had originally kind of proposed to do some of the the planning work and the implementation work kind of together. Uh, and ultimately it made more sense. The front load the the plan amendment really lock that down and understand where we're headed. Then move into the implementation phase, so that that was really the the major outcome from the discussion last Thursday. Okay, last question. Um, Will the T. F. Two or Boulder Junction phase. Two plan have its own set of Tdm standards and

[62:03] similar I mean the phase one had its own set of Tdm. That were quite innovative at the time everything. And so it is also more of the outcome that that T. That to will have its own set of uh Tdm standards and expectations and guidelines. I think that's right. You know. We haven't gotten into a lot of detail with our uh transportation colleagues yet, and and ultimately that will be part of that implementation strategy task which is task for um where we'll be working interdepartmentally to understand what you know, what are they gonna be? The needs from storm waters, perspective from transportation perspective. Um! And where can we make some? Some tweaks and adjustments? Um, you know it's to your point. The Tdm measures that were implemented back in the, you know, late two thousand and ten, or the early two thousand and ten. I guess. Um that you know they were innovative for the time. But here we are again fifteen years beyond what what those were originally stated to be. So there's. There's probably some adjustments that we want to make.

[63:08] Ultimately, that would manifest itself through those regular regulatory updates or it implementation phases a little bit later in the project. Great thanks. Okay. I'll have some comments later. But thanks for those questions and answers. Thanks, Laura. Okay. So i'll. I'll start off with the feedback that I initially provided with the November first meeting. Um! Does Planning Board have any feedback on the draft scope of work? I said that I think the scope is appropriate, especially given that There have been some significant changes in expectations around transit in this area, and I really like the fact that there's an effort to go back and look at phase one of the Boulder Junction area plan and learn lessons from that and do a market study and potentially readjust, because what you know what we thought was going to happen fifteen years ago, it might look a little different.

[64:01] I have some other questions that are related to that, but i'll hold on those for now, but that was my initial feedback. Yes, I think the scope is appropriate. Um! The question about incorporating additional place, making detail as part of a plan Amendment I'm. Generally for it. I think it's a good idea. I like the idea of having different, like many neighborhoods with different fields. Um! But you know. I think it was pretty evident that staff, or perhaps well, it seems to me that Staff are perhaps feeling like there's not enough detail in there, and you know, when Christopher went through the slides they seemed pretty similar, right like it wasn't like wilderness Place has this character, and old Pearl has this character. Um! It was more like well when you're next to foothills the buildings can be taller, and if you're near a creek or a ditch, face it's. But there wasn't a lot of distinguishing character for the district, so I think that that is a good idea, and um, you know I had initially thought. Well, maybe the place types in the East Boulder Subcommittee plan provide a model for that. I'm not sure how useful a tool that would be. But I just put it forward as something to think about. That was my initial feedback there.

[65:03] Um! And then the third question about community engagement. This is where i'm just like overflowing with love for the plan. Um, as it is written, because that you know this is kind of my uh, near and dear to my heart and soul. Um! There are a lot of really good best practices that are embodied in the community engagement plan. I do think that um staff are very thoughtful about tailoring the level and type of engagement, the different phases, and I thought that they were appropriate each step of the way. So you Don't need to do full bore collaborative engagement for every step of the process. Sometimes the goal is to inform people and make sure that they have opportunities to participate at council and at planning board and that sort of thing. Um! So I thought that that was very thoughtfully phased. Really, really love the use of the racial equity instrument. I think this is, I think, I heard from Staff that this is the first time that planning and development services has really applied the racial equity instrument, especially to a project of this scale. Um, So that's going to be um innovative and pioneering, and I can't wait to see and um, and talk about it as as that evolves.

[66:09] So thank you, Staff, for being brave and pushing that tool forward. Um, again, love, using the outcomes and lessons learned from phase, one including the analysis of benefits and impacts on underrepresented communities. I mean, this is really great stuff to say we had a goal, and one of our goals was to serve a certain population. How did we do? Let's look back and let's really be honest about that, and learn from it and try to replicate our successes, and maybe do even better in phase Two. So wonderful stuff. I love the use of community connectors um for East boulder, the having our two community connectors, Anna and Letti, at the table throughout the process one hundred and fifty. I I know it was a learning process, and there were some bumps along the way, but it was just absolutely invaluable to have that connection. I see John is smiling. I think John perhaps felt the same way with the East Boulder Side community plan,

[67:03] and I don't I don't know if everybody on planning board and all the members of the public who might be listening or watching, know what that community connector program is. If Staff want to talk a little bit more about that, that might be a good thing to do tonight, but some of the other things that you talked about walking tours really make it vivid and memorable experiences. I love that you're using walking tours as part of your public outreach. I love the use of the focus groups, and we got more detail about that tonight. That sounds like a wonderful plan. In addition to the open houses, the community meetings to be heard. Boulder like you're just you're hitting all the right notes. You're using all the right tools. Different people want to participate in different ways, and I really love that we're providing all those opportunities in a way that is also practical, and allows Staff to get their work done. Um, love that you're really defining the decision, space and setting clear expectations around. These are the things that are up for change. We're not reopening everything around the goals and the vision of the plan. Necessarily. It's like we really want to look at land use. We really want to look at.

[68:04] So I think setting those kinds of expectations right out of the gate is really good. A lot of planning processes go off the rails because people walk in with an expectation that doesn't match what's on offer? So that's really good. Um! And I had asked the question about how underrepresented groups were being defined for the project. And it is those those groups that Um Vivian mentioned, and talking about the advocacy groups like youth and seniors and um underrepresented minorities, low income things like that. So I I thought that um. You hit all the right populations, and I I know that the community connectors do bilingual outreach. Um! I couldn't think of anybody that you missed, so I' I've been talking too much, but a lot a lot of praise for this Um uh communications and engagement plan. Thank you. Thanks a lot. Lisa.

[69:03] Is that me, John? Sorry I was. There was a loud child in my ear. Um, uh, yeah, I mean, I I think very similar. So I won't uh speak for too long. Just because I think we've heard wonderful things from other planning board members. Um, I think overall the drop scope of work is really appropriate. Um, I appreciate the questions um that Staff has obviously carefully considered and already brought before council in terms of how to scope it, and thinking about um, how the first space was developed, and what's working, and what's not, and what conditions have changed, and so on. So um overall scope of work looks great. Obviously it'll be more refined over time, but that's what it's designed to do is get narrower as we go. Um place making detail. I think that's a really smart thing to call out, because I think that's one of the things that we kind of tried to do with the first area. And obviously um was not having the train that didn't help. But um, yeah, it doesn't quite have the sense of place that you might wish for. When you think about the main plaza and kind of the way that it's developed, and the trees will grow hopefully. Um, um,

[70:03] and it's not super legible from like the main thoroughfares. Right? It would have been legible from trains. We didn't get trains. So now it's like this, anyway. I'm glad you're thinking about place making. I think that's really wise. Um. And then finally, Yeah, um. I think the level of community engagement is both um robust and uh wonderful and appropriate um Given the scale of this um at this area, and then what other thing that. Um i'm sure you're thinking about, but i'll I'll just bring it forward because i'm i'm sure staff on it. I'm here Council. Think about it. I'm thinking about it. Um, It's just to understand what's happening with industrial writ. Large. Um, you know that, and I know that that's something Planning is is digging into across East Boulder and across boulder in general. But I always think about that. Um. And this parcel, I think it's completely appropriate for this kind of plan. It's not that. Um. But just every time we kind of chip away and lose this industrial here lose it there, you know. I I just wonder. Um. So yeah, I think that summarizes my feedback, and i'm excited to see where it goes from here.

[71:04] Great thanks, Lisa. Thank you. Let's see who hasn't spoken to. Ml: Do you have any? Uh, I do. Um. So I I have to just general questions, or maybe what I thought so. I think if you just need to hear if there are any um initial thinking around the original transportation. Um dream dream at this point. Um for the site, I mean, that's a huge impact. I I didn't see it show up again and again. But just talk about in the new scope. Um! Is there going to be a pivot uh away from that. And toward what? So do you have some?

[72:05] Yeah, it's a it's a great question, and we are. We are most certainly wrestling with that ourselves. Um, you know I I don't have a crystal ball, but I do think that there is a fair amount of optimism that um certainly the regional bus service will return. Um in some form. Uh, I know our Td already has it on their um on their plan. It's Basically, a It's a ridership question and a and a staffing question for them to get uh enough drivers to be able to bring those um bring a few of those regional lines back into the back into the transit center. Um, Currently Rtd. Is also exploring something called a peak service, a rail study where essentially they are looking at the feasibility of running three trains in the morning uh, from one to Denver and three trains in the afternoon the opposite direction,

[73:00] and this would be one of the stops as part of that project. So our staff and transportation community vitality um are all part of that uh sort of the working group um with our Td. With their consultants and a number of other municipalities sort of along the line to explore that. Um. So I think that there. You know the other thing that's floating out there that I think people have dreams of is the frontrage passenger rail, which is essentially Cheyenne to Albuquerque. In, you know, in the biggest vision. Um. So there, you know, there's a lot of discussion about these items. I think the the one thing that we need to make sure that we do is that we at the very least think about it and plan for it if it does happen, because if we Don't, and we gobble up the the space or the connections that are needed in order to accommodate a platform and that type of thing. Um, we we've lost our chance. And so you know, we're already at least trying to um.

[74:02] Make sure that through the planning process for setting aside room for platforms or extensions of those, because the size is different, depending on If it's passenger rail versus just kind of a peak service rail thing. So you know again, I think that's gonna evolve over the next, you know, twelve eighteen months as we move through this process, but most certainly will be engaging with our Tv as part of as part of this project. Um. To make sure that we have the latest and greatest information that that we can include in in the process, and communicate that to folks. Um, Thank you. I really appreciate hearing that it's not just Rtd: right that there is the regional rail and the bus tang it doesn't come to boulder, but it's out there, and it's new and um that we're not just holding on to kind of one provider. I I appreciate that thinking? Um. And yeah it it would be.

[75:00] We don't want to lose sight of the um opportunity to be as connected as we could be with transportation. Um! But yet you know how there's voids right now that how do we? How do we deal with that so perfect? Thank you so much. Another general question is Um, I think in the fifteen years I think it's. It's been fifteen years since the first plan. Um, are there in the proposed scope? Is there any environmental equity filter that will be informing the project? I mean, we've right taken ourself to the brink of climate emergency, and that's kind of different than what we were before. We all knew it was there, but nobody was. I mean we were there, and i'm just curious. I I I didn't see anything of that um nature

[76:08] in the thinking of. How do we for pose an evolution right of this piece of land? Pieces of land here that intentionally um intentionally account to the environment with Eab and other and a certain our climate initiatives department to, you know, Look at. Are there zoning strategies or regulatory updates or other kinds of things that could. Um. You know that we can apply here, or even some design elements of um. You know particular landscape requirements and other kinds of things like that that could

[77:07] um could address that, at least on the smaller scale, within this particular area. So, looking at urban heat on an effect, and tree canopy and other kinds of things more sort of natural climate systems. Um, That is certainly something that we would be interested in exploring, and it will be part of our, you know, part of this kind of that information gathering as as we um initiate the outreach approach. Um! The good news is, there's a number of landscape architects on the planning team that are that that are doing this work. And so we have. We have shared interest, and and I think understanding of some of these elements. And so there's um There's most certainly, I think a I wouldn't necessarily say it's it's a specific focus of the project, but it will absolutely be an element that we'll be looking at

[78:00] the thinking of creating a filter, so that if you're looking at the buildings. What does an environmental filter look like when we talk to you? You mentioned a few things. The heat, islands, um colors, materials uh reflectivity. Um ability to manage storm water on site All of these uh phenomenon that you know show up in, you know, green building uh rating systems and all. Then there's as you started to miss the landscape ones. Um! The transportation once the road was all of these have can be informed to do better, and it would seem to me that at the scale of a plan it it might be who was to um take the fact that we can create a land like the um uh equity lens that you're applying,

[79:01] and do one for the environment, so that it is holistic. It isn't separated out. But it's we're talking about this? How does it inform You know the people in the diversity and the this and that? How does it inform the impact to the environment. Um and material use, and on down to yeah, the zoning changes. Um precipitate the change. Which means that there's gonna be deconstruction. There's going to be removal of exist. How is that actually going to be deconstructed and be a positive thing, something that can go um toward reaching environmental goals rather than just get rid of all this old stuff. Um, these are strategies that can be. Um, uh, suggested. And again, if you have a filter that people have to kind of want to as they are doing their developments.

[80:01] It prompts that kind of thinking that, you know Boulder talks about in the in the Bbc. We want innovation. You know we want these things solved in a in a not just a practical way and a functional way, but in a marvelous way. So those are. Those are my two kind of um, general general questions, and we'll let other people make general comments as well. I think everybody. Well, anyway, John, should I talk about the individual ones, or or should I let somebody else go? No, no! If you're ready to. If you have your thoughts in order, let's not lose them. Um. So on the key issue. One uh I absolutely totally appreciate learning from what's been done, and then um, seeing where the disconnects might have happened or not happen, and didn't hit the goal or not here to go. All that. I think that that is just um obviously a brilliant way to to move forward

[81:11] that so a A and um b makes sense. I didn't understand some of the C on that question. Um, three items is being out of scope, and i'm not sure exactly what that means. Um! And so i'm not sure how to give feedback, and especially I was curious about the detailed design of individual development projects. Yeah, but basically we just wanted to clarify that. Um, that you know, there are certain aspects of the process that we we just, we won't get to a certain level of detail, or we won't. Be addressing through the project. So you know, oftentimes community members or others, you know, are interested in diving into the detailed design of a project, but that that's just not within the scope of the project. That's all we were trying to, you know. Define there.

[82:04] Okay, perfect. I was gonna say, isn't this a big planning prospect? So I agree they are out of the scope and this. Keep them out of the scope because they shouldn't be in in the scope of this um so perfect, i'm i'm good with uh the key issues, and I think that you're on a I I I love that You're um moving forward with all the knowledge that you that you've gained on part one um question number two, the place making details. This is a tough one, because um, I think it'll be it. The place making details will come out of your investigation as to what exists, because these are. If they're going to be true and real, it's going to be because they've got, you know, like the Tina on, and they've been there,

[83:00] and people see the value in it and recognize it. Oh, that's the place where you know x, y, or Z happens, and I I think, finding those pieces will come out of your process of inventory and talking to the people who I don't know that anybody lives there but works there. Um! And what's the historical knowledge of those people harvesting all of these dimensions? Because I don't, I don't think place making is something that comes off of the drafting table, or you know, a a program. It comes from the place itself, and it'll be, I think, task of the talented planning team to um. Uncover that and identify it, and I I support a process of of finding that I think that will add immense value to um

[84:01] to the to the plan. And I love that. You're thinking about that. That where are we? Where is this place? And how do we actually um identify it? How does it identify itself, I think, would be the first question. And go figure, you know. Go, find, go, i'm. Sure, there's stuff there. I personally, Haven't had that much experience in that particular area. But you know I i'm sure that there are things to be found, and so I would absolutely encourage. Uh, but I would encourage place making to come from within, not from outside, down, but from inside out, will be the most powerful and the most authentic. Uh So that's my comment on Number two and number three. I don't think anybody could say it better than more. I mean the enthusiasm about um what people have to say, and how people really are the

[85:02] They're the reason right? We're doing this so that we can create community so that we can be a place, and we're not just the generic development. And I think that um going going into as many communities as you've identified that you will be going into and with the um uh intent that you really want to listen and and say, Well, what are we seeing? What are we missing? Um, what didn't happen? All of these things, I think, are just are just brilliant. So I I do applaud the um, the number three uh how you gonna approach the community. Both the community that is already there, the community. They got the right moved into the phase one, and then the people that might be thinking about

[86:03] which don't either maybe live or work there, but are part of the community as well. So I appreciate the scope. You know the the broad net that you're casting to get the feedback. I think that really speaks to um the things that the planning department values that you know the community matters. So thank you. Thank you for that, and I appreciate. Oh, my gosh, ton of work you guys have done just to get to the point of articulating. What are we doing, because it's important not to just march forth right. Um. So my congratulations. Thank you all right. I i'm sure that others have additional comments, too. I have a just a couple of thoughts uh couple of them dealing with a substance and and some of them dealing with the process. And I understand that we're at this early stage, where process

[87:01] may lead to the changes in substance. But just in uh looking at the at the material that's been presented so far, and and your comments about that, your that you're in contact with Rtd. And other transportation agencies, i'm. I'm. Very uh happy that you are. My My thoughts are that it seems to me that there needs to be some significant attention paid to integrating this area transportation wise and connection wise with the rest of the town, because the the railroad is a convenient barrier in many cases to movement, and this is nothing new to you. But just in looking at the connections scheme. It seems to me that it's not. There's not as many. It's not as permeable as one might hope, and so I hope there'll be additional focus on that. And the second uh substance aspect uh pertains to the the service level for various cultural and social needs. That, uh, one one should expect in, particularly in residential areas,

[88:16] and you know that there's a proposal for a dinky little green area, and then possibly uh improving along improving the conditions along the the irrigation ditch that goes through there, and both of those are are very scanty, and it's several blocks to the nearest additional parks or cultural facilities uh in that area. And so I think that there needs to be explicit attention paid to to the levels of service for for those those aspects of life. Uh, and you know that's a standard thing to include. But it's also easy to forget about So that's why i'm mentioning that here, and then, with respect to the the process.

[89:05] Uh, I. As As Laura mentioned, we we both were participated quite actively in the East boulder uh planning effort, subcommittee planning effort. And I think there, there's a lot to learn. One of the important parallels. Is that really there's hardly anyone living in this area right now. And so the way in which one gets coherent response from those interested will be a a real challenge, you know. Likely uh a lot of for you. You know the land is almost fully owned by commercial interests there, and so they'll certainly show up and participate because they have a financial stake in in the outcome. But how we, how we get the additional parties involved that we want to be involved is is a challenge, and I I think what Vivian has laid out is makes a lot of sense

[90:11] Uh, all of those groups need to be included, and there needs to be explicit efforts made to to include them. But one group that it seems to me didn't fully get included, was generally including the city at large, I might say, and that's particularly important, because there's so few residents, and in this area, and so much of it is uh owned by commercial interests. Uh that that it seems to me the interests of the city at large need to be somehow explicitly considered and included. And it's a challenge. I'm not sure how one does does that. But my perception is that in in the process you've laid out that it's not obvious to me how how that gets dealt with um, Anyway, those are

[91:08] process related issues, but I I am very happy that you're explicitly trying to learn from the past, and learn from other planning efforts that have recently been concluded, and have similar objectives. So, um congratulations. I'm very happy about that. I Good thanks. Those are great comments. Those are good comments. Thank you, Christopher. Did you want to respond in some way, or add on uh, you know, Vivian, if you've got any um response, I guess specifically to the the question, or of how we engage the community at large. Um, you know that that portion of the engagement approach may not have been as as um clear, or, you know, explicit. So Maybe if you can touch base on that. Yeah, sure. And it's something we did think about as well, because um people don't don't live there. Um. And So I think you know, we've thought a lot about um like how to make it convenient for the focus groups.

[92:11] So if people prefer to meet online, we will try to make the meetings online, so that people Aren't spending too much other day, commuting here and there and do our best to uh to make these meetings efficient. Um. For under represented communities, you know, we we at the moment we don't have a specific like Spanish speaking group, but we might do that and kind of try to provide some incentive, some food, or go out to the community to make it very easy for people to participate. And um. And then in and also we have an advocacy group as a focus group. So these are members of the community who, I would consider part of the broader community who are pretty active. Um! And up to date on what's happening, who would be um very like, very much encouraged to join the advocacy focus group

[93:01] um from like you know, the transportation, mobility, kind of interest, and people um living with disabilities and equity agendas. And so I hope through there we can get um some good participation, and then we will also, at a couple of different milestones, have um community-wide questionnaires through be heard boulder. So we won't use that tons, but we'll use it strategically, and we'll also have um. A couple of broader community community meetings where we're providing updates, sharing where we're at sharing the feedback. We've received um and early recommendations and sort of next steps, so we're not. We're you using the focus groups to try to have these targeted conversations, but being mindful that we need to hear from the broader community as well. But but we'll evaluate how we're, how we're going and adjust if needed. Um, because, like you said it, it'll probably be challenging.

[94:03] I appreciate that, though. Thank you, Laura. Um, I do have a few additional questions. I just wanted to say that on that point one thing that um East boulder uh some community group did to try to get at. You know the the people who don't live in the area, but might want to, or the people who don't currently um go to shops and restaurants in the area, but might want to is that they surveyed some of the people who are employed in that area, thinking that that might be a kind of a reservoir of of pent up demand for people who might want to live in the area or shop in the area, or go to the additional restaurants or bars or evening entertainment and and get some ideas from them, since they are people that are already familiar with the area, and could comment on, you know. Would you live here. If the type of housing you prefer, we're available, and that kind of thing. So there's There's a uh some precedent there, so that's great. Thank you. Sure. Um! So I did want to ask a few questions and make a couple of other comments. Um,

[95:07] there are some definitions that I just wanted to make sure that we're all on the same page about that. I think people have asked before, but I just want to make sure we're on the same page about what is the stacked flat? What is a loft? And then there was a term that was used non-traditional housing in terms of talking about the old pearl district. So what does the city mean when you talk about sack flats, lofts, and nontraditional housing? Yeah, good good question. And you know I can't. Uh, I I can't see into the mind of the planner in two thousand and seven that wrote those works, because I probably would have chosen some different yeah, some different terms, because they are, they are somewhat beg. Um. So a stat, you know. I guess the way I would interpret that is, you know, a stack flat is essentially, I think, what we would consider and and know as a multi unit, apartment or kind of medium building where you've got um vertically stacked units uh whether they be for rent or for sale

[96:04] uh a loss might be some, you know, some kind of a of a mixed use building that might have commercial or industrial on the first floor, and a residential unit or residential use up above um, and then but not, you know. I went back, and I looked at the reference to the non traditional housing and and how it's used in the in the context of that old pearl area, the way I would kind of interpret that is that that you know it could either be uh interpreted as something non traditional is like a live work unit where there's a combination of residential and commercial uses in the same uh, in the same unit itself, or just sort of the non traditional um, you know notion of having residential uses in an area that has historically been a more of an industrial or service type of area. But I don't. I don't think there's any uh, you know, formal uh sort of consistent application of those uh terms or definitions within our within our city. Um. Lexicon.

[97:07] Okay. Thank you for that I if I can just say, I think, in the past. Occasionally, for example, Co-op and and other other ways of organizing people's, living arrangements have sometimes been called put into that category. Traditional housing. Yeah, that's another good example. That's a good point uh next question. Um, We didn't talk too much tonight about the form based code. And I apologize. I'm. I'm. Coming into this new I wasn't involved in the earlier phases of the Boulder Junction work. Can you just talk a little bit about if I'm. Understanding correctly, form based code was developed for the phase one. And is that also going to be just sort of straight applied to phase two, or that's part of what you're examining is whether there should be changes to that for phase two or like. How? What is the thinking around form based code for phase two. And how does that relate, if at all, to this idea of urban character districts?

[98:05] Yeah, that's great. Um. So you're you're correct. That yeah, The form, base code as it exists today. Um was developed for, and then applied to that phase. One area. Um, There's also some form base code that applies to the Alpine Balson location as well. Um, that is, separate from from this. But our you know we we certainly anticipate that there um there could be an application of form based code to the phase two area where it's appropriate. Um. Again, we don't want to reinvent the wheel. So if there are categories and building types and that type of thing that would be applicable to similar land uses over in the phase two area we would, we would look at applying those. But we also again, You know we're we're ten, fifteen years on from that four base code. And so. Um! There is an interest in evaluating again. What's you know what's been working? What hasn't been? Are there some strategic modifications that we can make?

[99:02] Uh so that it works a little bit better is more efficient. Uh, you know, from a staff perspective from an architecture perspective. Um, and make those make those adjustments. Um, if we were to a quiet to uh portions of Phase two, and it's it's also possible that, uh, you know, once we go through the process and understand what the recommended recommended. Land uses are, and ultimately what some zoning recommendations are. It's possible that there could be areas where the form base code, maybe just doesn't make sense. And then we would just move forward with our, you know, with our typical um uh application of the Zone code as it is today. Okay, Thank you. And and do staff see a connection between form based code and those character districts, or is there not really a connection there. I think that when um again, without having the benefit of history, I think that the intention of those those urban character districts within within the trans village area plan and how they're applied. Um, I think the intention was that there would be a sort of recognizable theme or character of each of those areas, and

[100:13] conceivably you could potentially try to to work that into the form based code. The form base code, I will say, is is more um probably more relevant to the overall sort of size and scale and organization of structures within the area, perhaps less so on the the sort of quality of that area. So I think what we would do is um. If If we were to apply the form based code, we would we would certainly utilize that to uh to manage the overall intensity and height to buildings and that type of thing. But in terms of those character districts I think we would probably lean more on the side of, like the design guidelines approach, or just some other recommendations that get into some of the more qualitative aspects of of those neighborhoods in those areas.

[101:04] So I I don't think there's a direct connection between the two, but it's certainly something we can be exploring. Okay, thank you. And then just one more common about the neighborhood character districts or the urban character districts. I don't know if there's been thought given to connecting that to the public art elements of this uh plan, but that intrigues me, and kind of excites me to think of that. There might be like a theme to the kind of public art that relates to the history of the place as Ml. Was talking about. Um, just just a thought. Um, I have a couple of more questions, John, do you want me to keep going, or do you? I'll just try to plow through these um. So I have a couple that might relate to the market study, or might relate to the community outreach or both. Um, you know, in the the Transit Um Village Area plan document that was written fifteen years ago. It talks about how you know the types of households that tend to seek out transit oriented development. This is a direct quote from the document

[102:03] the types of households that tend to seek out transit oriented development singles, couples without children. The elderly and low income minority households are also the types of households that are projected to grow the most in the Denver region in the next twenty five years. So kind of if i'm reading that correctly projecting a growth in the populations or in the demands of for trans transit oriented development. And I guess i'm wondering whether do we have more data on whether that prediction that prediction has come true. Um, you know. Are Are you seeing a rise in demand for transit oriented development? I hope so. But i'm wondering if we have more data about it, and if we don't have more data about it, we'll, We plan to get some through this process in some way, either through the market study or through the community. Outreach um, And that is related to my other question around. You know there was a housing choice survey or a housing preference survey That was done in two thousand and fourteen, and you know, a major takeaway, for some folks was People would move here, but they really prefer houses with yards, not stacked flats and live work units and things like that. And I i'm wondering if there's any thought to trying to update that or get more data, either through the market study or through the community. Outreach um in this process, because that seems like a big question, right? We're we're planning to add quite a lot of housing to our city that is, transit oriented. And we think that that's a good idea, and it would be nice to know if the data supports that.

[103:28] Sure. Yeah, I we Um. So I think we'll. We'll probably attempt to answer that question in a couple of different ways. I mean part of part of the engagement and approach is to really um try to speak to the folks that are that are now living in phase one area and and get a sense of the you know the households that are there. Um! Why, they're there, What through them to that place, you know it could be portability. It could be a number of different reasons. Um! So try to get to, You know some more uh you know I'd say anecdotal information from that perspective. Um, the market study, you know, because that is required to ultimately

[104:10] prove out that you know the demand for the proposed land uses. I do think that there's an opportunity to dig into those questions a bit and understand what's you know, what's driving that demand, and what household types is driving that demand. So if we come back with um, you know, in this particular area, we'll want to dig into that a little bit. Understand. You know what types of residential and why is it that you know there might be high demand opportunities in this area? Um, as far as the the housing survey that you reference from two thousand and fourteen, you know i'll have to circle back with um housing and human services that you know, just to understand if they are anticipating updating that, or if that's on a schedule of of any kind for regular updates, i'm just I i'm not exactly sure um, but you know, so I don't know if we'll be able to

[105:07] really get to a very specific answer on that quote or on on some of the you know where we're at in terms of the data, but certainly through the market study and some of our own outreach. We hope to probe that that question. Great. Thank you. Um. Two more uh in the packet it talks about, you know, trying to achieve the city's overall housing goals by offering an incentive for developers and select zones to provide more permanently affordable housing than is currently required. And then it also talks about like a density bonus, particularly for projects in the mixed use to and high density residential two areas that provide above that percentage of required affordable housing. And I looked at the map, and I do see that there is no mixed use to, and just a small percentage of high density residential to in the phase two area. And i'm just wondering whether um you know this idea of providing a bonus for providing going above and beyond giving us more units of permanently affordable housing.

[106:11] Is that something that's going to be applied in this phase to. Is that something that you're thinking about? Maybe expanding that incentive program? Or is that maybe something to to consider the table. That is something we'll be exploring as part of, probably more later as we move into that task. For of regulatory updates and kind of the implementation strategy. Um, However, that'll be based on some of the potential changes that we might make to those land uses. So while there's only a small area that high density residential to land use Um proposed in the phase two area currently that could certainly change through this process. Where we understand there there might be more of an appetite for some of those more mixed use. Um mixed use areas or or additional areas of higher density residential. Or we may also look at um.

[107:09] You know the way that those incentives are currently applied and expand the you know, expand the the use types, the land use types to where those incentives could potentially be applied. So I think all those, all those questions are will be explored, and around the table at this point, very happy to hear that, and you're probably already planning to do this. But, um, just in case i'll mention that seems like that would be a very fruitful area of inquiry for your look back at phase one like how how many, you know projects took advantage of this bonus, and what was the outcome? And What did it cost the city? You know, I think this is one of the challenges that we have with the affordable housing program and the bonus that we currently have exchanging height for additional affordable units. Is you don't actually get that many affordable units. It's certainly better than not getting them. Um, but you know just is taking a clear-ed look at What is it costing us? What are we getting, and how can we do better?

[108:01] Um. So and And phase? One seems like a very fruitful avenue for exploration. And then my last question, I think Ml. Really covered this around. Um, you know, has the vision for the area changed at all based on the uh um changed expectations for what rail service and transit commuter options might be available. So I just, if you had anything to add on that. It sounds like, know that this because the vision that's explained in the plan is that this Boulder Junction area is really going to be a destination. It's going to be very pedestrian Oriented that you expect a lot of foot traffic. You expect a lot of people coming in, not just to land at Boulder Junction, and then take another bus down to Pearl Street and and walk the Pro Street Mall. But to really enjoy this place called Boulder Junction, and that it has its own draw. Is that still the vision? Yeah, I think overall it is. And I think that you know this kind of comes back to the um

[109:00] the point that we're trying to make where we're. We're really hesitant to reopen the plan from, you know, soup to nets and and completely overhaul it, and we really want it. You know the overall vision and recommendations still still ring true, and we want to make sure that we're just strategic, and in the areas where we think there might be a need for some updates and and adjustments. Um, you know one thing I will, I will mention is that we we did kind of a staff walk about a couple of weeks ago with members from really a a number of different departments, including community vitality and transportation and community engagement and all of our team and um. The phase. One area is surprisingly pedestrian, friendly like the outcomes. The physical bill. Outcomes are actually really great from a pedestrian standpoint. And there's, you know, bicycle access and other things like that. I think the challenge is that um for those of us that have been around in the neighborhood, in the neighborhood or in the community long enough, and have seen this evolve over ten to fifteen years

[110:04] when you know what it looked like before, and you look at it now, you think Oh, it's done! But it's actually like There's still a ways to go on phase one to finish the construction, to actually get people moved in there to finish the park. That's across the street from the Plaza and Jason to Goose Creek. So there's There's still a number of things that still need to be finished, and then, of course, you know the whole pandemic and and changes to work. And now a bunch of layoffs in the tech sector, I mean it's Really, it's been a cascade of events, so it's not. It's not occupied by humans as much as it will be. And I think that you know give that phase one area another three to five years, and I think it's gonna really, you know, take on a license its own, and and become some place you know much more special than it currently feels today. Um. The goal for phase two is the same. Is that you know any of the street improvements or uh transportation connections multi-use pads? Um very much still a uh, a focus on pedestrian bicycle and multimodal movement, and and not a reliance on vehicles.

[111:11] The transit piece undoubtedly is a huge component, of that, and and that is something. We're still kind of working through. But we we have to plan ahead for it and hope that hope that it comes back in it in a really robust way. I really love how you're thinking about this. I'll just comment and say that if you are in a car. There's really no reason to ever go to the Boulder Junction area or go through it, because there's so many major arterials that go around it. You know Foot Hills, Pearl Street, Thirtieth Street, you know I I the place I get. My haircut is in Boulder Junction, and um, you know it currently. It does not feel like a very car-friendly place, which is probably a good thing. Um, there, there's no really no reason to drive into it. Um, unless there's like a particular place that you're going So I love. I love to hearing how you characterize that that it's it's not quite yet finished, and that it will have um more of these special places. That will be a real draw for people. Um, especially those arriving by foot or by bike or by transit.

[112:15] Well, thank you. Ml: Thanks, John. Um. I just wanted to riff on what you talked about in regard to the whole city. Um, the if if you ask any of us to live here in Boulder. We think of the transit Hub as being right to Fourteenth Street, Rtd. Station. That's where all the buses come and go out of in Boulder, whether you're going to Denver, or even for Collins. Um, I So I agree with what John was pointing out, which is, how is this? Um. As a maybe regional transit hub? If it's gonna have something other than Rtd. Because the downtown is an Rtd one. Um.

[113:05] How does that connect to the rest of the city? And and I agree with Laura. If you don't have a particular reason to be in that area, you're not going to encounter it just as a part of your daily experience. You're not gonna be passing by and saying, Oh, look at that thing there, you just not. And there's there's um. So I I think keeping that forefront is, how does it talk to the rest of boulder? Um, And you know, maybe start with the transit part. This is that we do have. We do have a very um active bus system. Unfortunately, the skips don't go over there, and the the hops skim it right. They go by long thirtieth. Um! Those are the ones that a lot of people take on a regular basis to get them to. You know the the most popular and populous places in the city. So how does that connect itself, I think, is an excellent point that John make, and I just wanted to reinforce it, because I I think it's very real. It's It's something that's very real, and um, it feels like that transit thing out. There is kind of something out there. Um, but it

[114:16] it doesn't need to be that way. So, anyway, thanks, John for bringing that up. That's a good one. Lisa: Yeah. And I I should be starting at a map right now, because i'm gonna say something incorrect, because i'm not. But i'll scroll and see if I can find in time. You know, I yeah, I I really like what i'm all just said, and I and I think that's kind of the tricky thing right is like, How do you make crown for retail restaurants, like whatever else work when the thing that we thought we're building like, never showed up, you know, and um and I can't remember. It might have been the chamber or something, but um,

[115:01] so they don't know. Kept kind of getting talked about like, is it the hop that runs? But like kind of restoring a more robust um Pearl Street transit line, you know something that's just like running almost, you know, very, very consistently, like on a loop. I know that we not that long ago, but in terms of Colorado time. What like a while ago. There was, I think, a streetcar line, you know, right across there. Um, you know, but something like that. That's just like kind of going, because you do have these big um office buildings going in. You know we do have this change in each East boulder, and so maybe there is a way to kind of activate the space. But but I think that instinct to figure out how do we bring people in, and that the answer is, transit is, is a big one, and then I was just looking at the website and trying to figure out, If busting comes to boulder, I don't think busting comes to Boulder, but you know, like and i'm sure I have not been paying any attention that i'm sure conversations are ongoing, or they've decided not to, or it's in discussion. I don't know um. But you know, if our Tv is gonna Rtd. Which they're gonna um, you know. Then look to busting, you know. Look to other stuff like you were talking about the you know, like a major rail along um kind of the metropolis like along the front range. Um.

[116:07] You know. How How do we activate in other ways? If the original partner that we thought we're going to have in services? Just never, not never. But it's still trained believer. But um, if we're not sure when or if that's going to happen. Um, yeah, cause yeah, you just you don't have a foot traffic, um, or bike traffic, or whatever. And without that I think we can reconceptualize such a different way. But how do you pull people in from that broader east, older area, and then even bring them like from parole over to their or, you know, from outside boulder into that region. Um, and actually give them a purpose for coming there. Um venue. I don't know. I'm not saying that you want like a concert venue, but like something I mean a concert venue wouldn't be bad. I don't know if we have the square footage for it, especially if we're trying to preserve potential connection to turns it later. But you know it's not something like that that makes it,

[117:03] you know, a destination in its own right. And then that like programs right because you need programming. You need activation. And then I I know a lot of effort went into trying to schedule stuff and activate the space at the current phase. Um, and it it just as far as I know, it never really took off. And of course, Covid and the playgrounds out there getting bomb blot. But you know. Yeah, if if you have a reason why a whole bunch of people come in and don't want to park there, they want to come in by, but they want to come in by bus. They want to come in, you know. Whatever. Then you have that regular flow coming through, and businesses can kind of survive on that. Um, yeah. So it's like opener arena. I don't know, Mark Well, I I hope i'm not the last person, because I I have some feedback, and so I hope someone will end on a an up note, because I have a little of feedback and and it's, and it's not all positive. So um! The first thing I want to say is that you know I've spent a bunch of time over in phase one

[118:05] recently, and and I can envision. How phase one like uh, Christopher was saying, is is going to be in a couple of years. I think it's going to be a great place, and I think it's going to be a great place soon, and it's feeling good now in a lot of places in in regard to feedback on the scoping and the Uh Community engagement plan. I I want to say that I found, uh the memo, the general language to be kind of dense and bureaucratic, and I know that this is not. These are not documents necessarily for community engagement, but I found them to be dense and bureaucratic, and I struggled with them a little bit, and uh, I was confused, and your your presentation uh it helped tremendously, but as I read through I was kind of like wait, I I I I struggled with it so, which may say more about me than your plan. But, uh, I I just wanted to know that I struggled with it,

[119:05] and I know that land use. And this is complex. And this is a big, complex project. But every project uh can benefit, I think, from clarity about what we can do and what we can't do. And I think we've kind of addressed that in in goals. But I think that as you engage the community. It's got to be super clear about what the guard reels are, what the limits are and and what you're really seeking uh input on, because if you have a lack of clarity about that, then the frequent comments that I've heard in council meetings on board meetings, et cetera was, I Wasn't heard um. This was all preordained. My input was window dressing, and I think that a lot of times that comes from

[120:01] the general public not understanding uh what what the limitations were to their to their input. And so I just want to make that point. I think our our very recent parks and recreation master Plan did a really great job uh upfront about setting out some very simple, straightforward goals and aspirations, so that, as you read the plan uh, they it was, it was clear how they were addressing those goals. I also have one. I want to disagree with my other Board members. I think. Um, and that is, I really struggle with the idea of these kind of siloed focus groups. I have participated in in Laura and John, and we've all, as as community members have participated in in different types of working groups and so forth. But

[121:02] the ones that I have gained the most from, and I think where my input has been most valuable. Both is ones where I set across directly across the table from someone who I am normally at deeply at odds with, and I have become friends with those people. I have learned from them, and um gain knowledge from their expertise, and I I think that um that the kind of siloed focus groups has the potential to have people feel like. Oh, that was great. We all sat in the room, and we we, we all agreed on these things, and then the next group. They all agreed on the things that they talked about, but they didn't really hear the the community members didn't hear the developers. The developers didn't hear the low income uh working people. And so I I i'm very concerned that that is a a problematic portion of the community engagement. And I know you guys have worked on this really hard. But anyway, that's That's my input on that.

[122:14] Yeah, thanks, Bart. Vivian, Do you want to? Um comment on that last particular item? Yeah, sure. I I totally hear you, Mark, We thought about that quite a bit um, and and thought about the pros and cons. So if there's a working group, you just can't involve as many people. Um! And if you have uh mixed many mixed groups. You also risk not getting into the details, like fully understanding the details of people different constituent types uh issues in detail, and we don't want to have five hour meetings, and but we also thought about You know what. Ha! How can we make sure that people here what other groups are are saying so, we would report back to the groups what we're hearing from the different groups. And uh, we would also share back in the larger community meetings what we're hearing from the different focus groups,

[123:15] and there is a risk that people just want totally different things right? So if we have that sort of situation. What we thought about is that we would have another focus group if needed, with representatives from different groups to do that consensus building um, and probably that'll be needed to be honest. But we didn't want that. We didn't want that to be the starting point, because we will really want to fully understand. And I think different groups will have different needs in terms of the education and awareness also to bring them up to speed. Um, and like property owners, business owners will have really different um requirements, and and the discussions would be really different. Right? Um! So that that's just a little bit of our thinking. Um. But I agree with you. We might have to adjust as we go in and have that forum for the different constituents, and I totally get what you're saying like that really rich conversation happens, and it's not like

[124:14] the city trying to pull those something people can hear, you know. People can hear where where each other are coming from. Yeah, I I I I I hear you and I I definitely up bringing some people up to speed. You know that is a is a different task and a different meeting than bringing other people who are intimate or professionals. And yeah, and and this is complex. I I just don't want us to miss out on an opportunity to actually have people be surprised by uh that that developer Guy. He's actually all right. Right. Now I understand a little more about what his concerns are, and and have a developer, you know, have have some understanding of of the struggle or the uh needs of of other community members and or a business owner that's looking at losing their space or whatever it might be. So, anyway, that

[125:15] you get you get my message. So yeah, yeah, no. I get your message, and we'll think about it more. And something else we wanted to do was to make sure we had diversity in the different groups. So in our application for focus groups, we'll ask people like, what is their interest in Boulder Junction or or ask different questions, and then we'll try to form them. So they don't all look the same like, you know. The focus might be around issues advocacy issues. But um. We want to make sure that we have a mix of like people living nearby. People not living nearby, you know. Try to just make the groups look a little bit different as well. So that'll be kind of a subjective exercise. Um. And I fully take your comment on board. Yeah, and i'll. I'll just uh add to, uh, thank you for the comments on on just the the sort of memo, and and how important it is that we

[126:07] break free of our planner ease that it's so easy for us to fall into, because we we sort of live in and breathe this stuff all the time. And so you know, just making sure that as we work through this process, both within our written material and any presentations to be um very clear about what's what's on the table? What's not? You know what's up for discussion, What's not? But then also making sure that we can very clearly explain and articulate the the complexity of these items, and I I appreciate your comment there as well, and I just add something to that on um Spanish. It's something, Sarah and I have been talking about about like just using playing language like. If the English version is really complicated, then the Tre. Nobody is going to understand the translated version as well. Um. And and something we're thinking about is even working with the connectors to come up with terminologies for planning language and Spanish like that that they prefer. They think their communities will understand better as well, because there might be like a more correct translation. But if nobody understands it, that's not really useful.

[127:11] That's great. Thanks, Laura, just to add in on that point. Um! The same thing happens with English speakers as well like that that they will not understand when you start talking about the difference between land use and zoning and character. And so I think one of the challenges for you is that some of your audience members will be very sophisticated, like the design professionals, and maybe some of the property owners who have been through the planning review process and kind of get it. Um, because they have that experience right? They have that education. They have years of working with these terms and with the city. Um, And and so some folks are going to want that level of detail of Okay, right now, we're looking at the land use map, and this is going to translate into the Bbcp and other people that's just gonna be over their heads completely. And you're not going to get if you if you try to make that accessible to the public. It's just not going to work, So I think you need to plan for

[128:08] some meetings that go into jargon and planaries and some meetings where you really have to take it out of planning language entirely and ask about things like, What kinds of activities do you want to do. What kinds of housing do you want? What kinds of open space do you need the things that are really going to matter to people and their lives. How do you get around this area? Um, You know what I'm saying So i'm not going to belabor the point, but I think we ran into that with the East Boulder Subcommittee plan is that Staff made such a diligent effort to bring everybody along with every single detail of the planning process that a lot of people just dropped out even members of the working group. I think sometimes we're we're lost and um so, and that's, you know, a longitudinal process with a lot of education. And if if you really want to get um broad, input, sometimes you have to figure out ways to not go so deep if that makes sense.

[129:00] Yeah. And that was a bit of our thinking with the separate focus groups like, you know, we can't ask every what they think about the form based code like that. We need to find other ways to ask them. What do they like about their housing, or what are they like about their neighborhood like? So um during the kickoff face to We will put some effort also into like that educational piece also, and and try to come up with some short short videos and things like that that are accessible. That explains things simply and clearly. Okay, any further thoughts. This is your accounts all right. This Has this been useful to you? Uh, Christopher and Vivian: Extremely Yeah, really appreciate it. First of many conversations. Well, thanks for coming, and thanks, thanks for not giving up on us when we were being so difficult to to schedule. So thank you.

[130:07] Thank you. Okay. So we'll uh, I think there is a another information issue uh that. Uh, i'm not sure who's going to be telling us about it. So property line uh uh elimination. I think that Charles Uh. Mentioned to me that that was really just an informational item for you, and if there was any questions you can follow up with, he or sh them afterward. Right? Well, it's not something that we have to make a decision on, or or even give any input on. Necessarily.

[131:01] Okay? Well, We're moving right along here, so matters from the board. I think, Laura, you had one that uh that. Uh, maybe we won't be able to deal with tonight, but you can describe it. But, John, can I say something about the information? Item? B. They now have the opportunity to put in the Abu on that property, because it meets the minimum threshold for um square footage. So that might be in there in the thinking is that what you gain by going by adding that what is it? What was it? Twelve foot, you know, piece to their property? But it push them just into the area where they can have an eighty. So

[132:02] I just wanted to point that out that I think that's a great way to get more properties qualified. I love that. You notice that detail. Ml: really pays to have an ad. You expert on the board. Yeah, it's all good. Okay? Well, anyway, Laura, you had the requested uh some briefing by staff of of what the city council was up to. But I think, uh, we got a response, saying that to the tonight might not be the the most opportunity in time to do That is, you want to describe to everybody what what what you were asking for in the response. Sure, Um, so last is it? Thursday last Thursday City Council had a study session, as, as I understand it. And Christopher, you probably could describe this better. But um regarding

[133:08] planning priorities for the the planning Development Services Department, and I know that some some Council members made a pitch to um reprioritize a few items uh things like occupancy limits a to use um looking at multi-family housing that that kind of thing I don't have the full list in front of me, and I I had asked for an update, because I wasn't exactly clear on what the outcomes were and what direction Staff was taking from that, and the answer that we got back from Brad was, they would absolutely be happy to update us um at a future dates. But that uh staff needs to take what they heard, and have some internal meetings about it, and figure out a direction, and then come back and and brief us. Is that Did I get that right, Christopher, Please add correct. Yes, that is, that is exactly right. Yeah. So uh, uh, Brad is actually away on vacation. So when he returns we'll uh debrief and and circle back internally with all of our

[134:03] team. Um. Primarily, I would say it has more of an effect on some of the Uh code update work that Carl Giler and Lisa that are working on um. Not as much of an effect on our comprehensive planning uh work plan, but a little bit um, so we'll we'll certainly come back uh to you with an update on that. Hopefully. Um uh before the end of the year. I think we have tentatively scheduled ourselves in for sort of mid late December timeframe to see which one I think great, very eager to hear about that. Um, you know. Obviously, we wish that you could do everything because you're amazing, and you do such great work, and we would love to have double the staff and planning and development services, so you could just get it all done. Um! But obviously we know that you have limitations, and there's only so much work we can ask of you. Um, because we want you to have a good work Life balance. We don't always hit that goal as it is. So um, you know,

[135:00] really interested to see how these things get get rearranged. Per Council's requests. Okay, Any other matters from the board I have. I have one that I just like to mention, and that is that on Friday there is a conference here in Boulder about the real estate uh matters that I think, uh, some members of of our staff will be making presentations. Um and uh, I'm. I'm intending to go to that uh it's on Friday, and it's organized by uh, you know the business paper here, and so I just wanted to mention that. And uh, if other folks are interested, you might uh

[136:00] look into that. It's an all day thing, but sounds like they'll be people coming and going for various presentations. That kind of a related question: Does anyone remember um border stuff? What What is the um yearly or typically yearly annual conference in Boulder, where the State demographer presents? I think the Chamber often hosts it, and they usually try to have the State demographer come when they talk about like birth rates, and growth. Is that the real estate Conference or another one? If you don't know, I can try to. I think that's a different one. I think that's one that's very interesting to just kind of the broad trails. And then what's happening in the county. And anyway, yeah, so those could be a one. I think that's organized by the uh Chamber by their business development arm, or whatever they call it, and they, uh, they coordinate with the the the Uh community foundation of boulder, which puts together this very nice uh

[137:02] statistics of oldest population and growth and change. I just always found that a fascinating presentation, you know whether or not other you know pieces of that particular thing. Anyway, I just you reminded me of it. John didn't mean to change the subject. Uh in looking at the at the uh schedule, it's a bunch of uh developers talking and realtors, and so on. But I just wanted to mention that I I think i'll show up just to to hear what they're talking about, so you might just double check the date. I'll show up on Friday, and no one's there. What's What's the purpose of that? Um, really? Oh, November seventeenth. You're correct. What did I say? Okay? Well, I may not be going them. But But, John, what's the purpose of that? What's the purpose of that? Um. Conference?

[138:03] Well, I think it's a lot of developers and realtors talking about what they'd like to do and what they're hoping for. There it I can uh the the schedule, the agenda which gives a list of the speakers. It's called the the Boulder Valley Real Estate Conference, so it includes Boulder, but it also includes other uh, you know other municipalities that are in in the county and sort of in the area. So um, I think it's just kind of a broad uh overview of yeah coming and goings, and what people are seeing in the market. Um. And you know projects that are starting to come online or be constructed right? Yeah, I've I've been in the past email, and I just pulled up the agenda at a glance. And so there's like commercial and residential forecasts. I'm sure they'll be talking about interest rates and just you know what's already in development. What's coming up Life sciences we've seen. So yeah, Yup, um, earth, wind and fire rebuilding. So you know what's happening after Marshall, and so on. Major developments on the way. Short term rentals. That's an interesting one. And then climate

[139:11] the water energy and the weather, so I don't know it sounds interesting, anyway. I just wanted to make sure you knew about it. It's maybe something relevant for us to be aware of. Oh, thanks for bringing that to our attention, John. Is it a come one? Come, all kind of event, or do you need to register, to pay for members to attend events like this uh within reason. So I would say that if you're interested and able to go, I would think the city might be able to reimburse you of the registration expenses? And is it um in person only, or is it hybrid?

[140:02] I think it's in person. Thursday Probably doesn't work for me. But it does sound interesting. It'd be great if there was a recording, but it doesn't sound like there will be. But uh, yeah, Some folks from the city will be there, too. Okay, Any other matters matters from Staff. No, nothing on my mind, thank you. Okay? Well, I think. Uh, we might be able to do adjourn at a reasonable time unless anybody else has something we need to talk about. Okay, just lots of love and appreciation for our staff. Thank you so much again for the great uh presentation on Junction. That was great. But thank you, and thanks to my fellow planning board members for great questions and comments. I feel like I agreed with almost every single thing I heard tonight, and it was just i'm just feeling the love. Oh,

[141:13] man, I can't let that continue. Good night,