February 23, 2026 — Parks and Recreation Advisory Board Regular Meeting

Transcript

Captions from City of Boulder YouTube recording.

[0:02] Hello, everybody. Clarissa, it is 6.01. All the Prab members are here. Can you please begin recording? It's recording. All set? Okay. All right, thanks to everybody for joining us tonight. We have a quorum of Prab members present, so I will officially call this meeting to order. Would anyone like to make a motion to approve last month's agenda? Motion? Okay, Yvonne motion, second. Mike, second. Are there any questions or comments on the agenda? Okay, yes. Okay. Sorry, this month? Last month. Okay. Oh, nope, this month. You have a question? Yes. It's not a question, Jenny. I just want to, for the benefit of our board and also the Members of the community in the gallery. I just want to make a comment on what we are talking about tonight, which is the long-term financial strategy. So we are not talking about specifics, and I want to remind everyone that no decisions have been made about any of our facilities. We're going to be talking about the work that is going to happen in the next several months to set the community up to make a citywide decision.

[1:15] Glad to hear everyone's comments, of course, but I just want to remind everyone that we are not making decisions about what is going into buildings at this meeting tonight. Okay, thank you, Bernie. All those in favor of approving the agenda, raise your hand. And those are not in favor? Okay, agenda is approved. All right, the next item is future board items and tours. This item is presented by our Director of Parks and Recreation to highlight the upcoming board activities. As a reminder, this is also where members of the PRAB can suggest items to be considered for scheduling. at the next agenda-setting meeting. Allie, I'll turn it over to you. Thank you, Madam Chair. Folks. My name is Allie Rhodes. I serve as the Director for the Department of Parks and Recreation.

[2:01] During this item, we're on page 2 of the packet, and I just want to call out… I'm not going to read everything on this as per usual, but I do want to call out some key milestones the PRAB will want to pay attention to in the next several months. One is that next Thursday, on March 5th, City Council will make appointments to make you a full board of seven again. Those folks will join our board for the April Business Meeting and April Study Session. Also in April, the Boulder Valley Comprehensive Team will be coming to you for your input. The draft plan was actually released to the community in a press release today. If you'd like to begin reading, then, your packet. for the March meeting, we'll include more, background on your role in that item, and we'll actually… we'll call out some of the items relevant to Parks and Recreation. So that's at your March meeting on March 23rd. And then I also want to call out and just highlight for you now that coming up soon, we are requesting a study session, that date to be scheduled upon. We learned tonight this was a miss on my part, that April 1st is the first day of Passover. And so want to look at, other dates. We can do that during matters from the board.

[3:04] And then on April 9th, City Council is going to have a study session on facilities funding, and again, per Bernie's comment, they're going to be talking about citywide needs, and they will weigh in on the recreation facility scenario, so your discussion at that study session the week prior is going to be really helpful for them. And that's all I have tonight, ma'am. Okay, thank you, Allie. Okay, now we'll move on to public participation. This portion of the meeting is for members of the public to communicate ideas or concerns to the board regarding parks and recreation issues, for which a public hearing is not scheduled for later in the meeting. Tonight, there are no public hearings scheduled, so all public participation will happen at this time. During this public participation time, the public is encouraged to comment on the need for parks and recreation programs and facilities as they perceive them. All speakers are limited to 3 minutes, that's a hard 3 minutes. Depending on the nature of your matter, you may or may not receive a response from the board after you deliver your comments. The board is always listening and appreciative of community feedback.

[4:08] And, Clarissa, will you present, the additional guidelines, and then you can call on our first speaker tonight? Yes, thank you. The City has engaged with community members to co-create a vision for productive. meaningful, and inclusive civic conversations. This vision supports physical and emotional safety for community members, staff. Council and board members, as well as democracy for people of all ages, identities, lived experiences, and political perspectives. For more information about this vision and the community engagement processes, please visit our website at the link provided. The City will enforce the rules of decorum found in the Boulder Revised Code, including participants are required to sign up to speak using the name they are commonly known by, and individuals must display their whole name before being allowed to speak online. Currently, only audio testimony is permitted online.

[5:03] No attendee shall disrupt, disturb, or otherwise impede the orderly conduct of any board meeting in a manner that obstructs the business of the meeting. This also includes failing to obey any lawful order of the presiding officer to leave the meeting room or refrain from addressing the board. Only one person may speak at the podium at a time, unless an accommodation, such as an interpreter, is required. All remarks and testimony shall be limited to matters related to city business. No standing in or otherwise blocking the aisles in violation of the fire code or in a way that obstructs the vision or audio of other audience members. No signs or flags shall be permitted in the meeting room except for one per person that is no larger than 11 by 17 inches and held no higher than the person's face. No participant shall make threats or use other forms of intimidation against any person. We ask that you not affix items to the podium, dais, walls, or other surfaces. Signs, flags, or other items used to communicate must be held by one person when displayed.

[6:06] Absceed any other epithets based on race, gender, or religion, and any speech or behavior that disrupts or impedes the meeting will not be tolerated. In-person participants are asked to refrain from expressing support or disagreement verbally or with sounds such as applause or snapping, with the exception of declaration. Traditionally, support is shown through American Sign Language applause, or jazz hands. Our first public commenter will be Tony Smith tonight. Okay, looks like Tony is not in person, so Tony, if you're joining virtually, we'll call on you in the virtual section. The next one will be Janet Streeter. And please ensure the microphone is on. Thank you.

[7:10] Okay, oh, there, it seems like it's on. Thank you all for being here and the work you do. for the city. My name is Janet Streeter. It keeps the lap pool and basic facilities at South Boulder Rec Center. The modern approach to development means that most services should be within a few minutes' walk or bike ride. For this, services should be spread out evenly, in a distributed way, so that most things that are needed are close. This is the opposite of forcing South Boulder residents to North Boulder or East Boulder for lap swimming. It forces people to criss-cross the city in cars, adding to traffic jams and gridlock that leaves drivers and also buses at a standstill.

[8:01] There's a bad political aspect to closing or radically changing the South Bowl Direct Center. We in South Boulder have been mostly made to feel included and welcome over the years. Not always perfect, but pretty good. Closing the South Boulder Rec Center is going in the opposite direction. It pits us versus them, and leads to all kinds of problems. I urge members… of the Park and Recs Board to stick to the basics, keep the South Boulder, North Boulder, East Boulder facilities roughly even in nature, which means keeping the lap pool, gym, and lockers at South Boulder. Thank you. Thank you. Up next is Judy Emery.

[9:07] Good evening, everybody. My name is Judy Emery, and I'm a BOCO Pickle Board member, board member. And we just wanted to provide some feedback. that we thought you would want to hear of things that we really appreciate are happening. So, first, in North Boulder at the Rec Center, we have asked repeatedly for some benches. And it's been over the course of a year, probably. And lo and behold, they appeared, so it's really great, and people are very appreciative of it. they were placed in a, in a certain location that really caused a safety hazard, especially for tennis players. But the city responded, because we talked to them and said they really should be moved, and made a suggestion, and they've been moved. So I wanted to acknowledge that, and we appreciate that.

[10:01] The other is, we did notice that East Boulder Rec, we have two new pickleball cour- nets. So that's really great, too, because, if the nets are bad, it's really hard to play pickleball. So, we appreciate that. And then, the next thing is, some of our members have expressed some frustration with the new reservation system, and basically what the issue is, if there's inclement weather, and the courts aren't playable, there's no way to get reimbursed. again, we approached the city, and the city is working on resolving that. So that's great, too. And then finally, Tom Watson, which is the new area that's going to be looking at dedicated pickleball courts. The city has come to, or some of the staff have come to our recent board meeting, and we had a great dialogue. Great discussion, great communication, and they asked for input on a number of items, and we laid out, together with them, kind of a timeline, and so we will be providing some recommendations, probably within the next week.

[11:14] So I just came here to acknowledge it, it's great, and we really appreciate the work that's happening. Thank you. Thank you. Up next is Jenny Ferris. Hello, I'm Jenny Farris, and I'm here to talk about South Boulder Rec Center and the importance of keeping. Being a pool there. Just yesterday morning, I swam laps at South. Within minutes of opening, the pool was full, swimmers were sharing every lane, and others were waiting for a turn. Some were there for a workout, others were rehabbing injuries. One adult was learning how to swim. Recently, I shared the pool with our local firefighters as they completed in-water skills.

[12:17] Kids from 7 nearby schools can walk to South Boulder Rec and use the pool. This pool is an incredible community resource. Eliminating it would be a tremendous loss. Our local swim teams depend on this facility. Fairview High School swimmers use the South Pole from November through May. High school swimming is one of the few no-cut sports in Boulder. If the pool is eliminated, participation will decline and opportunities for our youth will shrink. These high school swimmers belong to tax-paying families who wish to keep this pool as well. Adding two lanes to an updated East Rec pool will not replace the loss of an entire separate facility. This would be like closing a grocery store on one end of a town and adding two checkout lanes to another store across town to make up for the loss. It doesn't add up.

[13:08] Further, when a swim meet takes place at a pool, that entire pool is unavailable for hours, no matter how many lanes it has. Without south, meets and practices would be pushed to already full north and east pools. That leaves no space anywhere for laps swimmers during peak hours. Where are those swimmers supposed to go? We've been told that the goal is not to decrease lap lanes in our city, yet this plan does exactly that, and it does so in a way that disproportionately impacts South Boulder. I've spoken with numerous swim coaches in Boulder over the past several months. Every one of them says the same thing. There is not enough lane space to meet community demand. The 2025 Indoor Rec Needs Assessment states, and I quote. Current aquatic amenities are all overutilized, and additional lap lanes are one of the highest priorities for Boulder's community. So why are we even considering eliminating one-third of our public indoor pools?

[14:06] We've also been told that more engagement is needed to determine South Boulder Rec amenities, yet maintaining pools at East and North appears to be assumed. Why the double standard? South's Pool has served this community successfully for 52 years. It's already proven its feasibility and value. These are not my views alone. Nearly 3,500 community members have signed the petition to City Council in agreement. The message has been clear and consistent. We want to preserve what already serves our community well, including a lap pool at South. I urge you to honor the voices of the people that you represent. Thank you for your time. Thank you. Next up is Mary… Snee watch. Sorry if I mispronounced that.

[15:01] How is your last name pronounced? Snabis. Sure. Hi, my name is Mary Snevweiss. Thank you all for your service. I'm here to talk about the Future of Rec Centers FAQ. One point. It was recently posted on the website. The question regarding what amenities will be included at Future South Boulder Rec Center, BPR states. Boulder Parks and Rec. We do not want to reduce service levels for the majority of amenity offerings across the system. Well, this doesn't answer the question about South. One thing is certain… Sorry to interrupt, we… the timer's not going. Oh, sorry. Sure. Don't worry, I've timed it. One thing is certain, though. Boulder Parks and Rec is definitely not saying that they will keep a pool and a gym at South. Other rec centers are getting improvements and additions, and South is getting reductions. For a city so focused on equity, this screams of inequity for those of us who live in South Boulder. In addition, the FAQ says, any future planning for South Boulder Rec will require additional community engagement to determine funding levels and identify desired services and amenities.

[16:05] Well, this is false. With regard to desired amenities, Boulder Parks and Recs just completed and presented the Future of Needs, Future of Rec Center Needs Assessment, which included feedback from residents of all over the city, and specifically asked about the desired amenities for each rec center. The findings were presented by Megan Lohman in October 2025 at the Prabh meeting, and basically, she stated that across the board, residents want core features, and those core features included a lap pool. And as well as exercise equipment and other things, but a lap pool was one of the top 3. So we know from the city's own data. what residents want. Residents have been saying what they want over and over and over. And again, as Jenny just referenced, our petition that we recently did, 3,400 people have also said that they want a pool and gym and, and exercise equipment. So I don't think we need more studies to determine what people want in South Boulder Rec Center.

[17:03] I think it's simply a stall tactic, personally, because Boulder Parks and Rec does not want to admit that they're planning to eliminate the pool at South after East Boulder Rec Center has gotten expanded, because we know that there's going to be a much larger pool put there, at least that's the plan, and we know that probably after that, it will be easier to justify getting rid of South. With regard to determining funding, Boulder Parks and Rec has stated that the full replacement cost for South Boulder Rec is only $30 million. That's far less than what is being allocated to East right now, which is $53 million. And that's only Phase 1, so the FAQ alludes to the fact that there's going to be a Phase 2, which is gonna be maybe 20, 30, 40, 50 more million, we don't know. So, the CCRS tax includes renovations and rebuild of rec centers, which would include South. And it has been extended in 2021 and 25. And residents overwhelmingly support it. So why does Boulder Parks and Rec refuse to allocate funds for South? It just keeps choosing project over project ahead of South. So, in my opinion, and in many other in this room, this is a priority issue, it's not a funding issue. And again, we feel this is inequitable and unacceptable.

[18:10] South Bowl Direct is well used, well-loved, it's a community hub, it's home to, Fairview swims teams, and it's used by residents and swimmers of all ages. We're tired of our please being ignored when we come to meetings. We never really get a response back. And you all, as Prab, you guys actually do have power to ask the hard questions and get demand and get answers, so thank you. Thank you. Next is Christine Bresco. Hi, my name's Christine Breskel, and I actually don't have anything, rate prepared. I just wanted to say that

[19:00] the notion that nothing's been decided is a decision. You know, not… not committing to keeping… a pool, and the core features, the gym, that's… that is a decision right there. You know, this isn't the same everywhere else, where, you know, we know East is going to keep a pool, and going to have an expanded pool, and a moved pool, and… that… Anything, any, any, when we say amenities haven't been decided at South, any decision… That doesn't include what we already have is… is… Not regardless of what new amenities or whatever it is, that's taking away what the community loves and uses and treasures. And I just want that to be really clear, that this isn't, yeah, just kind of a game of picking amenities to everyone. It really is, you know… treasured community assets at a community rec center, so that's all.

[20:04] Thank you. Next is Weston Bennett. Hi, my name is Weston Bennett, and I'm 9 years old. I don't really understand a lot about budget. budgets and taxes, but I do understand what it feels like to have a place that really matters to me, you. The South Bowl direction is where I swim. It's where I… Where my friends and I practice, laugh, and get better at things. It's where families spend time together. So I'm confused. Why would you take away a pool and gym from 4,000 kids in a whole community of people who use it every day? If something is smaller, that doesn't mean it's not important. If something doesn't make the most money, that doesn't mean it doesn't matter. Kids like me don't have driver's license.

[21:03] We don't just go around town whenever we want. We need places close to home where we see… where we feel safe and welcome. When you take away a gym, you're not just taking away a building. You're taking away basketball games, you're taking away swim lessons and practices, you're taking away a place where we learn to be strong and healthy. And grown-ups always tell us being active is important. If 4,000 kids use something, that means it matters. If older people depend on it to stay healthy, that means it matters. I just want to know, why would you take away something good from so many people? Please don't forget about us, just because we're smaller or quieter. We might be kids, but this place is part of our lives. Thank you for listening. Thank you. Next up is Yvonne Bennett. Okay.

[22:00] Yvonne's online, so we will move you to the virtual section, and next will be Ryan Bennett. Good evening, thank you all for your time, appreciate you allowing us to share a few thoughts. So, over the last. 25 years, the city has made significant investments to renovate recreation centers. North Boulder was renovated in the early 2000s, roughly 30 years after it opened. East Boulder is now receiving substantial investment at the same point in its life cycle, roughly 30 years after opening. And that pattern makes sense. Facilities age, The city reinvests, and the whole community benefits. Unfortunately, South Boulder Rec Center has not followed this pattern.

[23:01] The city publicly stated in 2015 that the South Bowl Direct Center was nearing the end of its life. That was 11 years ago. Think about 11 years ago. Today, the facility is over 50 years old. It has never received a meaningful renovation. And the city has still not made a commitment to invest in the South Pole Direct Center to ensure that it can continue to deliver essential amenities, a lap pool, a gym, cardio weights, an exercise classroom, to ensure our community has those amenities for decades to come. The South Boulder Rec Center is an amazing asset for the city. It brings to life the 15-minute neighborhood concept by being centrally located within a large residential community and being walking distance of 7 schools. Now is the time for the city to commit to investing in the South Boulder Rec Center, and to commit to maintaining the core features of what recreation centers have provided in Boulder for 50-plus years.

[24:08] Now is the time for the city to prioritize must-haves over nice-to-haves. This means making an intentional choice to address failing assets, like the South Boulder Rec Center, before spending money to improve areas that are already functioning effectively today, i.e. the civic area. Now is the time, after 11 years of waiting, to move from acknowledgement to commitment. Thank you. Thank you. I'll do one more call for Tony Smith. If he's present now? Alright, we'll move on to the virtual… Advanced sign-ups, and then if you'd like to speak and haven't signed up in advance, you will have an opportunity to.

[25:00] Next will be Yvonne Bennett. Hi, good evening. Can you hear me? Yes. Great. I'm speaking tonight on behalf of the South Boulder Rec Center. I want to address your website's frequently asked questions section that lists visitor numbers for each location, claiming that South Boulder Rec Center has lower usage compared to North and the east centers. I would like to address why this comparison is fundamentally misleading, and provide further context on the matter. South is significantly smaller in square footage. It has fewer amenities, it operates with fewer hours, fewer programs, and no childcare. It has had more closures over the years than any other centers, and is usually closed on major holidays. When you reduce a facility's size, programming, and access, and then point to a lower raw attendance number, that is not an apples-to-apples comparison.

[26:07] Usage is driven by opportunity. If you limit the number of classes offered at South, of course total class attendance will drop. If you cut operating hours, of course, total entries will drop. That is not evidence of lack of demand, that is evidence of constrained supply. What we should be evaluating is utilization rate, how full the gym is during open hours, how full the pool lanes are, and how quickly the classes fill. Every workout class that I attend is packed. Many programs have strong participation despite limited offerings. That signals demand. The current approach risks creating a self-fulfilling prophecy. Reduce programming, reduce hours, reduce investment, then cite reduced usage as justification for further cuts. If the goal is fiscal responsibility, then measure usage fairly. If the goal is trust, then ensure the metrics being presented tell the full story.

[27:09] South is smaller, South has fewer hours, South has fewer programs. Lower total attendance is predictable under those conditions, and it should not be mischaracterized as a lack of demand. Also, when I was reading through the frequently asked questions, I noticed that funds will be requested by Boulder Parks and Rec for a North Rec Center update. How much do you plan to ask City Council for? And you cited that South had a major renovation. I'm just wondering, is $2 million considered a major renovation for a building that has been deemed end of life? What I'm concerned about is the difference in the process. Boulder Parks and Rec can simply just request money on behalf of North, but it took a huge community effort, outrage, and thousands of emails to secure $2 million for South. The discrepancy is very troubling to me. Thank you for listening.

[28:10] Thank you. Next is Alex Veltman. Good evening. My name is Alex Beltman. I'm a South Boulder resident, and I'm here to address the lack of capital parity in the proposed CIP. Last November, voters delivered a 73% mandate to improve our recreational infrastructure, yet SBRC remains in a state of managed decline, with $0 for its renovation or replacement. This is a policy choice. The EBCC budget has ballooned to $53 million, a 300% increase over the voter-approved 2021 estimate. Staff previously claimed that these funds could not be legally moved, then that the funds were dedicated, and now, as of February 4th, staff is admitting that the 2021 ballot language does not legally restrict reallocation of funds.

[29:12] Instead, the department now claims to be bound by informal conversations. I argue that the most authoritative conversation happened 3 months ago, when voters granted the city massive new debt capacity for capital improvements. The department is choosing to prioritize a $40 million budget increase elsewhere, while ignoring South Boulder. Staff may cite visitation data to justify this decline, but that is a self-fulfilling prophecy, as mentioned before. SBRC has been stripped of the programming that drives attendance. We have no childcare, no gymnastics, and no elder center. This decline wasn't accidental. It was engineered. Between 2015 and 2018, the department systematically removed the engines that drive attendance, and now they cite low attendance as the reason to let the building fail.

[30:08] You cannot use the results of institutional neglect as a justification for further neglect. Worse, I have just received records via CORA showing that while SBRC is relegated to managed decline, the city recently commissioned conceptual designs for a massive expansion of EDCC into its parking lot. A project including a new 10-lane lap pool and 36,000 square feet of new construction. Staff had missed in your packet tonight that this second phase has a funding gap. More importantly, your own master plan designates SBRC as a Priority 1 community asset and a critical emergency reunification site for our schools. We should not allow the decommissioning of a vital safety anchor to become a foregone conclusion based on a mere visual check that the needs assessment authors themselves warned not to use as a basis for renovation decisions.

[31:07] South Boulder residents pay the same taxes as the rest of the city. I urge this board to recommend moving SBRC into the active project queue for 2026. Bye. Thank you. Next is Rahi Abujan Manali. See, ask one more time, see. Can you hear me? Yes. Yes. Hi. My name is Rahi, and I'm a 3rd grader at Bear Creek in South Boulder, and I really enjoy swimming. I like to watch the Olympics with my parents sometimes, though very little TV I'm allowed.

[32:04] I find it inspiring to see all the athletes be so good at what they do. I especially love watching the Summer Olympics because of the swimming and gymnastic competitions. I'm pretty good at gymnastics, but I want to get better at my swimming. We may not all be Olympians, but it does feel good to be really good at something. My mom and dad teach a lot of life stuff. Be kind, eat your vegetables, And also speak up for yourself. I'm here not just to speak up for myself, but also for other kids like me. My parents also say practice makes progress. Not perfect, but progress. Now, for me to make progress in my swimming, it helps to have a pool nearby where I can practice regularly. A pool that someday I can walk to myself. Independently. We are so lucky that the South Boulder Rec Pool is open again. Thank you for that. So why take it away? It makes no sense to take away what we already have. An amazing pool!

[33:11] All I'm saying is, do I really have to bug my mom and dad to drive me all the way to another rec center pool to swim just because South Boulder doesn't have one? Please, please save our pool. All of us kids love it and need it. Thank you for all that you do for the city, and thank you for listening to me. Thank you. Next is Kyle Rose. Kai, can you hear me? Yes. Okay, my name is Kyle Rose. I moved to Table Mesa, South Boulder, in 2017. And I met a few neighbors, I was invited to a pickup basketball game at the South Pole Direct Center. I was amazed having moved from California, where you're always searching for various gyms to play basketball.

[34:08] I was amazed to find 30 to 40 guys consistently on Tuesday, Thursday, and Sunday. Playing pickup basketball. it was a great community, everybody… all the players got along wonderfully, and so I want to piggyback on an earlier comment that the usage numbers are something you're looking at as South Boulder not having as high as East and North. So, what ended up happening was the… there was a, I think, a failure Probably due to maintenance with the basketball court, so they had to close the court and replace it. They replaced it with a surface that's a little bit hard on a lot of the guys' knees, so they ended up having to shift the game over to East Boulder Rec Center, where it's been for a few years now. And so, that right there. like I stated, is probably 40 players at each, you know, each game on Tuesday, Thursday, Sunday, so that's a big chunk of check-ins and people that are coming to the facility to use it.

[35:07] So I wanted to basically advocate for… using funds, I don't think it is at end of life. I remodel houses in the neighborhood that are the exact same age, 50-plus years, and I've remodeled now. I'm on my third one, and have obviously reused and been able to add You know, certain items that are needed, and for a very cost-efficient way to go in and bring these homes up to, living standards and have them thrive for another 50 years. I think this can definitely be done for the South Boulder Rec Center, and I would really advocate, because we have such a strong community, local in the neighborhoods there that use this center so much, and I think this is very much the basketball story that I told, speaks to how many people from the neighborhood will walk and bike and keep

[36:00] cards off the road over to a basketball game, which I know I did myself, and missed having, and I think that You know, all the people that have spoke about the pool, and the weight. weight room and basketball court, I think, is just… speaks to… my family of four uses it all the time, and I know the community members absolutely love it, and so we really need to figure out a way to allocate a remodel budget to bring South Boulder up to the standards of the other rec centers, and let's get another good 50 years out of it that community members can enjoy and appreciate. Like the others. Thank you for your time, I appreciate it, and hopefully we can find a way to make this work. Thank you. Thank you. Next is Dr. Elizabeth Rasmussen. Hello, can you hear me? Yes.

[37:00] Okay, cool. Hi. Good evening, Council. My name's Elizabeth Rasmussen. My husband and I purchased our house in South Boulder in 2021. I'm a mechanical engineer, and a mother to 11-month-old baby Noah, and I'm here to speak for young families who are, I think, really invisible in a lot of these meetings, because it's currently bedtime, and my husband's being a hero and putting down our kid so I can talk. But, like, we chose Boulder for its generational assets, and specifically the South Boulder Rec Center and its surrounding schools. But as these facilities age, we see, like, our neighbors and our friends, instead of choosing to buy in South Boulder or in Boulder, really, they're going to Louisville, Longmont, Erie, where facilities are maintained, and also it's affordable. South Boulder is one… like, we were essentially just priced out of North Boulder and East Boulder in locations that are closer to the other rec centers, and so, you know, we saved for the down payment for, like, 8 years to buy the house. We're very excited to live in South Boulder, and it's super sad to see, and I think a lot of other talks have talked about, like, the equity issues, and so, I think that's a part of it.

[38:07] there's a lot of single-family houses. We're trying to do what Boulder says it prioritizes with supporting young families and working professionals, and I think this is a lapse there. I also wanted to note that the facilities are both in South Boulder Rec Center are outside and inside. For outside, another metric for usage that isn't always seen is the outdoor volleyball leagues in the summer. It's amazing. If you haven't seen it, it's just magic. And… it's another example of, you know, for 7 weeks, there's around 200 active players on Tuesday, Wednesdays, and Thursdays there, and it generates over $8,800 in revenue from just the fees, and this is based off of last year's numbers, and it… the cost is virtually zero. There's one referee for about 10 hours a week. The nuts are reusable, the lines are reusable, but it's so aging, that

[39:00] there's two big issues that I want to bring up. The first one is there's these goat head thorns, which you guys, if you guys haven't seen them, they'll, like, poke a bike tire, and it's super dangerous. And it's disappointing that my kid can't learn to walk while mom's playing volleyball, because it's, like, a hazard, and even when we're playing, you have to put on shoes, and you have to walk, and so the volleyball courts outside aren't being maintained. And… that's an issue. There's not even enough sand, on the courts, so, like, injuries are a thing. So I just wanted to speak to also the outside facilities and the volleyball courts. I've loved interacting with the community members. Like, shout out to Evan, who's on, Parks and Rec, they're great. But anyways, I just wanted to speak for that and make sure, like, the engagement side, it's hard to engage in evening things as a young parent, and asynchronous communications, what we can do, and we're here, and please preserve the generational asset for the next… so that my son, who's 11 months, can be like the 9-year-old who's speaking today. Thanks.

[40:07] Thank you. Next will be Mary Fiore. Hi everyone, can you hear me okay? Yes. Perfect. Thanks for your time tonight. My name is Mary Fiore, and I'm here today to speak in support of maintaining the programs and facilities that currently exist at the South Boulder Rec Center, notably the pool, gym, and fitness studio. I've been a South Boulder resident for 14 years, and have come to appreciate the resources that the South Rec Center has provided for my family and me over the years. You know, especially as our routines, as a family have changed. Pre-kids, my husband and I would regularly use the gym after work. That has changed since having kids. And when they were in their, you know, toddler and early elementary years, you know, we would walk to the rec center as a family to swim and use the gym and the ninja room. And now that the kids are older, they can walk independently to the rec center to meet their friends on their own, again, to use the gym, the pool, and the tennis courts.

[41:17] you know, South Boulder Rec has been a huge asset to our family, and is to many other families in the South Boulder neighborhoods, you know, it being such an easy walk or bike ride away. You know, over the years, I've spent hours in the fitness space working out while being able to view the Fairview swim team practice, or even the synchronized swimming team practice, which is an absolute delight, if you haven't experienced it yourself. And, you know, despite the age of the facility and the small footprint, that is one aspect that I have come to appreciate about the South Pole Direct Center, that even the building itself creates visual and physical connections between the different activity spaces and the users. You know, where I can be on the

[42:00] one space while looking in on the lap swimmers at the same time. Now, that doesn't exist at the other facilities, and this is something I think we would want to maintain, you know, those cross-recreational connections, you know, rather than eliminate them. And my hope is that you're able to see that the South Boulder Rec Center is a true asset to the community, and that future planning and funding is spent towards enhancing its current offerings. and the community connections that already exist here in South Boulder, rather than eliminating the recreation facilities and programs. I understand there's consideration being given to eliminating the pool itself and considering the aquatics program to east, lumping it into plans for the renovation there, and I don't see how eliminating the pool itself will be a community benefit. Consolidating the aquatics program to East does nothing for enhancing services or building community. It's just that, a consolidation, and eliminates an existing asset to South Boulder and to the City of Boulder by reducing the overall number of pools and lanes.

[43:06] And eliminates the current convenience for Fairview swim team members of being able to walk to practice. And so, I hope that you can listen to the community members, both within the City of Boulder, as well as within South Boulder, to specifically understand what we need and really want. Thank you. Next is Lynn Siegel. Yeah, it's pretty clear what… The community wants, and they shouldn't have to be here begging for what they should have. And… I am coming from a different perspective here, and that is the perspective of watching Planning Board for 30 years, and watching the developers in this town

[44:03] Get so many subsidies, It's appalling. that then… These folks have to come out and beg. For what they bought into with this community. It's just unacceptable. And I can start naming them off, starting in the South. See you south. Dark Horse. Going east. Weathervane. 58th and Arapahoe. Now there's Pearl and 50th. There's the Millennium. There's Alpine Balsam. There's the 28th Street taken over by CU. CU's got a huge hand in this town, and CU's not paying their way.

[45:02] And they're getting plenty of subsidies. Let's go to Glenwood, there's a new development there. Papelio's, 400 units. I mean, it's outrageous. Alpine balsam. Even thinking of Area 3 Planning Reserve. What needs to be done are full assessments of the full life cycle analysis of the demands for the community needs for any given individual in this community. And then you add all those up, and the developer pays their way. Because this is all about money, isn't it? You know, Ali, if you had all the money in the world, all these people wouldn't have to be here. You'd be distributing it fairly, you wouldn't be scrimping, you wouldn't be doing unfair trade-offs between different centers.

[46:05] These… this is a… A very rich community. And the fact that developers in this town was Sundance! You know, like, so many things coming here. So much growth. It's just stunning. And, you know, most of these people that have spoken tonight They're not gonna believe their eyes when they see what I see is coming. What's in the pipeline for this community? It's… Unspeakable. the growth And the largesse of the developers in the community. Thank you, Lynn. Thank you. That concludes our advanced sign-up portion. If you are in person and would like to participate in public comment, please raise your hand.

[47:04] And if you are virtual and would like to participate, please ensure your full name is shown and raise your hand. Alright, I'm not seeing any hands raised, so that concludes our public participation for tonight. Okay, thank you, Clarissa. Thank you to everybody who participated tonight. I will turn it over to staff. Is there any comments you would like to make before board questions? I'll just really appreciate folks coming out, hearing people care deeply about Parks and Recreation, is pretty amazing. I also want to appreciate Clarissa sitting across from me here. We don't normally get a lot of public comment at Prabh, and she facilitated that flawlessly, so I'm really grateful for that. The only thing I'll call out is that we have an item tonight that really is responsive to

[48:00] this topic and the process ahead, and so if folks have a minute to hang around, great. If not, you can always listen later and at your leisure. The materials are online, and you'll be able to watch a recording, or listen to a recording. I believe this meeting's not video recorded, but there's a listening, so on your next walk or whatever, you can listen to the meeting. Thank you, Allie. And for members of Prabh, are there any comments you would like to make on the public comment that was offered tonight? Okay, oh, alright. Hello? Can you hear me? First of all, I wanted to thank all the speakers, you know. this is how democracy works, doesn't it? We get to hear from our community, and we get to hear from the young ones, especially, about the importance of what we're doing here today, and… really appreciate that you're taking time. You could be hanging out, doing your homework, or playing, or doing other things, so really appreciate what… that you came out to talk to us about your…

[49:05] issues and needs relating to, parks and rec. I'll just say, I know we're going to be talking about this later in the agenda on, sort of what our strategy is, funding strategy, facilities funding strategy. And I do appreciate what many of the speakers said. Chrissy, Mary. Ryan, and many of the other children who were speaking about, the importance of a pool. We recognize that, certainly, and we're gonna do everything we can to make sure that that is included. in whatever scope of work happens. But, you know, there's a lot to be discussed, as you know. A lot of decisions that have to be made. But I, you know, really do appreciate the fact that people are here as, was it Rahi, the third grader, who said, you were taught to speak up for yourself, that's exactly the right thing to do, and genuinely, we are listening to what you want. So, thank you very much.

[50:05] Okay, thank you, Yvonne. Oh, you wanna go? I also want to thank everyone for coming this evening. It's always great to see how many people get, get interested in these important projects. I think everyone here knows I'm a South Boulder resident. I use the SPRC facility myself personally all the time. I value it greatly as a community facility, as well as you all do. That said, I think it's important that we continue these conversations in good faith, and I am concerned with some of the rhetoric that has been used with regard to this project. We need to remember that this is a citywide decision. it's… it's very powerful that so many people signed a petition to support this facility and the three core amenities. However, we need every part of Boulder to support this facility as well. It can't just come from our neighborhood. a couple of folks tonight brought up the fact that, there are… is not as much programming at SBRC to drive use of the facility. I think that's a very valid point. I think we also need to recognize that the existing footprint

[51:08] doesn't allow for a lot of the programming that may exist elsewhere. Or we're in a face… or we're in a place where we have to make trade-offs, right? We can't have a ninja room and daycare. There just isn't that much space in the facility. That's not a specific example, don't quote me on that. I mean, you can quote me, but don't, hold my feet to the fire too hard. I also have to point out the building as it is built today, it was updated in 1999, it got a significant investment at that time to install an elevator. Even with the elevator, if you were disabled, and I was a wheelchair user for about a year. it really sucks. It's very difficult to use that facility, because of where the elevator's located and the security requirements that we have to have in place to keep The children who use the facility unsupervised, and we keep those children safe. That's not something that can be programmatically fixed, that is a structural problem with the building.

[52:01] In addition, if you're a wheelchair user, the locker rooms are difficult to navigate. Not impossible, but difficult. As I said at the beginning of the meeting, we're going to be hearing from staff tonight about the plan going forward. I think it's going to be a very meaningful and powerful, community-wide engagement over the next few months, and I do hope that we get to a place where Yes, in 6 months, we're asking all of Boulder to vote for a facility with a great new pool and an elevator that works, or maybe just one level, and we can shift the tone of the conversation at that time. Until then, I think we need to, make sure that we're all playing from the same set of facts. Thank you. Thank you so much for everyone who turned out today to talk about. how much the rec center means to you. I love hearing all these stories, and just seeing how many people. are having, like, really great memories formed, at South Boulder Rec Center. And I'm… I mean, as hard as this is, I think this is also really exciting. There is an opportunity to build

[53:09] a new, fantastic, rec center for the South Boulder community. The building is very old, you know, built in 1972. It's not… it needs major renovations. It doesn't really make sense to be renovating the existing building, so most likely, the best option will be to consider building a new facility. But it's gonna be a long road ahead to get there. And what's gonna be really important on that road is, the full support of Boulder community. So, I think that it's really our job, to tell our stories. To tell stories to people who live in other parts of the community, and maybe hear from them, are there other groups where there's also really unmet needs, across the City of Boulder, and we can really come together and talk about those major needs

[54:00] And then when we go to the voters, towards the end of the year, we can talk about some of these really important issues that affect South Boulder and affect other parts of Boulder, and maybe we can come together as a community, to vote to have the requisite funds to really make this happen. So I… I think that's a great way to just think about how you want to get involved, over the next year, because there is so much passion and enthusiasm in this room, which is really exciting. Okay, I do echo the sentiments of my fellow Prabh members on this. Thank you all for coming out tonight. I really also enjoyed hearing the stories, especially to the kiddos that took the… had the courage to come and talk to us virtually and in person. I have 15- and 13-year-old kids who go to Fairview and Centennial and also use our rec centers, so I understand the passion around the subject, and I really look forward to continuing this conversation over the next few years.

[55:03] In a positive way. So thank you for coming, and I look forward to hearing from staff tonight, and the presentation on the long-term financial strategy. So on that note, we will officially close public comment. And move to the consent agenda. The consent agenda tonight includes approval from the minutes from January 26th, updates from Director of Parks and Recreation, Parks and Recreation Operations Update, Parks and Recreation Planning, Design and Construction Updates. Ellie, is there anything you want to offer on that section of the agenda before… We make a motion. The only thing I have to say out loud, because it happened since we prepared this packet, is that last Thursday night, City Council did unanimously approve the annexation of the property adjacent to East Boulder Community Park. It's a big win, and it'll enable us to use that parkland, as was intended by that purchase in 2019. That's really exciting. Let's make a motion, and then…

[56:01] So, would somebody like to make a motion on the consent agenda? We'll move. And second? Okay, now discussion on the consent agenda. Bernie has a question. Thanks for that update, Allie. Is that the final… Legislative bar that we need to clear before we can start planning for construction? It's the final legislative bar that lets us move into site review and construction documents, and so there will be additional steps for, like I just mentioned, site review and permitting. But we now can begin those processes now that the property is legally within the city limits. Okay, thank you. Yeah, and so just to call out, in your March meeting, we'll give a timeline and project update. We're working fast, it just happened, but… Mark and his team are working on it, we're pretty excited. It'll help. If you all will just reflect back two years ago, these chambers were full of people with tennis rackets and pickleball, paddles, and so we have been working hard to address those needs.

[57:00] Anybody else have a… Okay, Yvonne, go ahead. Is this annexation a decision? Is this what's going to prompt the design concept for flipping the pool to the other side of the property? Those projects are separate. Okay, I just wanted to make sure, because we just heard from one of the speakers today that there's a design concept that's… the architectural firm is working on flipping the pool on East. about that more in tonight's presentation, but just to be clear, the park project and the facility project are completely separate. Okay. All right, any other questions on the consent agenda, or comments on the consent agenda? Then I just had one. If you could give us just an update on how the interviews went for the boards and commissions. I know we had 15 applicants. Are we still at 15? 13. We had 2 folks either withdraw from the process or no-show. I'm not formally sure what happened, but we have 13 folks that Council will be considering next week.

[58:09] Great, okay. Anybody else on the board like to make a comment? Oh, just wanted to mention that I love the insert around the memorial at Eden Park, and so I think that's just, like, a wonderful way for us as a community To talk about something like grief, which is, you know, something that's… sometimes there aren't really, like, those public or, like, symbolic ways, to show That part of our culture. So thanks for including that, and very exciting, that we're able to make that happen. All right. So we have a motion, we have a second, all comments and questions have been made and answered. All those in favor of approving the consent agenda, please say aye. Nay? known days. We are approved unanimously.

[59:03] All right, we have no action items tonight, so we'll be moving on to matters for discussion. Thank you, Jenny. So, folks, Clarissa, I need sharing permissions, please. We have a deck for you tonight that summarizes the information in your packet, and you're gonna see me reading from my notes more than you ever do, because I think accuracy is really important on this topic. But I want to start by just calling out that I am speaking on behalf of a very large and very talented team across the city. We're working closely with colleagues In Central Finance, of course, in the city manager's office, and in fact, I have two colleagues that I just want to recognize from the City's Facilities Department. My colleague, our Director of Facilities and Fleet, Joanna Crayon, is right here, and our Chief Architect, Michelle Crane, is here tonight. We are not, as Bernie mentioned earlier, we're not getting into design tonight, we're not getting into technical details, but they are the project managers and incredibly supportive, and they also know that we're having hard conversations, they're here in support, so I'm super

[60:02] I'm grateful for their expertise. And for their hard work, along with other folks, across the department. So give me a moment and see if I… Let me get this up… Yes. We're a Teams organization, and you all have heard me say this before, anytime I have to present in Zoom, I feel very inept. All right, first I just want to clarify. So tonight, we are going to do… we are going to provide information you've mostly seen before. The community, maybe not. Folks have not been paying attention for the many years that we've been on this process. So we're going to review the process and work to date. And in doing so, we really do want to align on a foundation of knowledge and facts, so that as we move forward into the conversations, we're all working from the same place. We're going to outline the process ahead, so that folks know when and how decisions will be made about our recreation centers.

[61:07] And we want to make sure that members of the Prabh know when you'll be consulted in the coming months in your role in these conversations. With some context, I have to affirm our shared value for the recreation centers. I have to agree with one of our speakers that if I were given a blank check. I would build… I would build 3, maybe 4 or 5 palaces for the people in our recreation centers. We… folks who choose public service and choose public parks and recreation do it because we believe in the power of parks and recreation to change lives. We know our recreation centers, are critical to achieving a community where every member's health is founded on unparalleled parks, facilities, and programs. Our facilities are hubs for neighboring, for connecting, for physical and mental well-being. And on our darker days for safe gathering. We have been working on this for a while, and we know we don't have all the questions answered yet, and so in that quiet space in between engagement, rumors and concern and worry is growing. We're hearing lots of feelings, we heard them tonight in the public comment.

[62:11] We're hearing worry that things will change and that there might be lower levels of service. We're hearing mistrust and perceptions that we aren't sharing information. And we're hearing frustration that we're even in this position to begin with. I understand all of those feelings, and I just want, folks in the community and the board to know that we are feeling determined. We are determined to make decisions that are informed by the value of community centers and the cost to build and maintain them. We're determined to support public process and good governance, and we're determined to meet this challenge. So we're going to start with just a summary of the policy and process to date. I am not going to read to you from this slide. This is just a summary that the city's future, our desired vision, is outlined by the seven goal areas of the Sustainability, Equity, and Resilience Framework.

[63:00] You heard from people tonight about the value of the rec centers to us being a healthy and socially thriving community, and that is true. But how they are built and operated must also ensure our community is livable, that we are environmentally sustainable, and that we are responsibly governed. As it relates to being environmentally sustainable community, our recreation centers are 7% of the city's square footage. Yet take 30% of our energy consumption. Addressing energy efficiency in our recreation centers is required for the city to meet our energy targets, and it is now required to meet today's energy code. The code has changed since 2021, when the project at East was first originally proposed, so what was once framed as an energy retrofit to advance sustainability is now required to meet city code. That's just one example of, how we must synthesize both old and new work to develop our informations, and that brings me to the next slide. There are a variety of plans and information that inform this work. All of them are utilized in considering the alternatives and developing the scenarios that you'll see in April.

[64:08] There is no one sentence. paragraph. plan or study that will inform our decision-making. And instead, we must synthesize it all as we develop the scenarios to be discussed in April. We also have to synthesize it with city policy, funding levels, and long-term consequences of our choices. That all sounds really bureaucratic, so I just want to call out that we also launched this project, The Future of Recreation, to ensure that as we invested in our rec centers and addressed their aging condition and energy consumption, we were also trying to meet both current and future recreation needs. And so recognizing that our facilities work together to meet community needs, we zoomed out and we did take a holistic look at the recreation centers. You've heard us say before that they operate like hub and spokes. Some amenities serve the whole community, and some amenities are at each facility.

[65:01] And so, the Recreation needs assessment that was completed last October was to affirm general site programs. Another goal of that project was to zoom in on the East Boulder Community Center. As everyone knows, funding is available for that project, and I'm going to talk about that more specifically in a moment. A goal of that project, expressly shared multiple times, has been to inform the design of the East Boulder Community Center. Some have said that the East project was supposed to be limited to addressing energy efficiency, and that any exploration of meeting recreation needs a scope creep. This is not accurate. Since the project was proposed for funding in the budget, it was described as an infrastructure renovation, and a key outcome of last year's engagement was to inform East Design. So next, I'm just going to give a current state of each of the facilities, and I think it'll be helpful with some of what we heard tonight. So, this is the current state at EAT. These pictures are from last January, when we were operating as a warming shelter amidst frigid and deadly temperatures.

[66:01] Our roof is failing, and we have plumbing issues, and we had buckets and fans throughout the building, just trying to keep people safe. I also want to clarify the perception that the budget has grown for this project. While various numbers and scopes were explored in 2021 as City Council discussed the CCRS ballot potential projects, no budget was finalized at that time. The project was approved by City Council in the fall of 2023, with 2024 budget development for a project funding level of $53 million. This total funding is spread across years based upon cash flow and project needs. This is typical with capital projects. $10.5 million has been appropriated, meaning it was approved for spending, this… thus far. That funding is for pre-construction services like design, construction documentation, and permitting. and for initial project phasing. We have spent some of this money to understand design options for this building, and that work will inform the upcoming scenarios conversation.

[67:02] Yvonne, just a little bit ago, you asked about a decision and a potential facility option that would flip a pool. We have several design scenarios that are being considered. No decisions have been made. We've affirmed this several times, and I really hope folks hear this. We've not made decisions. Another $42.5 million is outlined for 2027 and 2028 to fund construction. The current building infrastructure issues include failing air handling units, roofing, like the pictures illustrate, air leaks in the building envelope, and water heating and treating equipment and plumbing. This building is now our biggest concern. What's next for EAST is that Phase 1 construction will begin in 2027. This will address some of that failing infrastructure and code compliance in the Age Well Wing. As I mentioned, and I want to affirm again, there is no final design for recreation. That is pending the upcoming holistic analysis of citywide needs and the scenarios that PRAB and City Council will discuss in April. We'll move into construction documents and begin Phase 1 construction in 2027.

[68:08] Upcoming policy direction will inform the final scope and design for Phase 2. For the current state of the North Boulder Rec Center, it does also require immediate infrastructure repairs to address the building envelope and pool replastering to ensure continued operations. I had to ask an expert what this picture shows, because I just see peeling paint. But what it shows is evidence that the walls in the pool area have moisture in them. This impacts the integrity of the block walls, and they are actually spalling and breaking. These improvements, someone mentioned earlier that we have asked for funding that is not accurate. This project is unfunded, and is an estimated $2-5 million just to maintain the current operations. That brings us to the current state of the South Boulder Rec Center. I want to start by just affirming what we have said, is that we believe in the value of recreation in South Boulder. We have not said that we've made decisions based on visitation, and in fact, the next sentence on the FAQ around visitation says.

[69:09] That facility size, amenities, location, and other factors all inform visitation. And we're committed to identifying a solution for South. As a result of the investments in the last 5 years, and especially last year, South is no longer our greatest concern. As I mentioned a moment ago, east is what is keeping us up at night. We know the pool at South will require total replacement within 10 years, and I think this is another part that is responsive to some of the questions we've heard. Doing the full replacement means not just replacing the pool, it means digging out the concrete infrastructure and the piping and ducting underneath it. This level of renovation will require us to meet current code. We cannot meet current code within the current shell of the pool without reducing the size of it. Doing that type of repair would also not address the accessibility concerns. Bernie, you hinted at those a little bit earlier, and I just want to remind folks that equity is a lens in our decision-making in the City of Boulder, and when we talk about equity, we mean considering who is benefiting and who is impacting from our decisions. So the South Boulder Rec Center does not meet current standards, and our ability to program it successfully and even meet ADA accessibility is limited by the building's design.

[70:22] including the bathrooms and locker rooms. We do not have family-friendly or gender-neutral spaces. The building is challenging for anyone with a disability. Anyone requiring a bit more privacy? Or even if you have an opposite gender caregiver, such as your partner, or even your child. Simply fixing the pool is a short-term and ad hoc fix that doesn't consider the larger picture, community needs, city policy, or best practices in facility stewardship. So finally, I just want to address the frustration and the request that we prioritize South right now. Last month, we gave you a holistic update on the long-term financial strategy.

[71:01] And because we're hearing questions about why South is not yet funded, I just want to revisit this slide. This was last year, January, of last year, and it has been the plan that the 2026 ballot strategy and funding conversations would include, how are we going to address recreation in South Boulder? I get this is happening slower than folks would like, and that we don't have answers yet, but we are working the plan. In 2025, City Council did advance two ballot measures to advance the long-term financial strategy. The 2025 Community Culture Resilience and Safety Tax Renewal Ballot Measure Supported by Volder extends the CCR tax in perpetuity. This aligns with the long-term financial strategy to ensure the city can build and maintain city capital improvement projects up to the amount authorized by the tax. Voters also supported allowing debt to be increased up to $262 million for capital improvement projects funded by the CCRS. This expanded debt authority and funding allows flexibility for debt to finance large capital projects within the available revenue.

[72:03] Being able to meet some of the core needs and last year's approval were a critical first step. CCRS funding and debt capacity are now part of the consideration in developing a citywide facility investment strategy and addressing citywide needs. Those conversations will continue this spring. Which brings us to the citywide conversation. This is a sample list. We've had a lot of focus on the left side of the screen and the recreation centers. I just want to remind folks that our role in good governance and to be good stewards of financial strategy, and avoid ad hoc decision-making, we are working very hard to support a conversation with the community, the Prabh, and City Council, where we consider recreation needs, along with others, citywide. We are underfunded for taking care of our recreation centers, and we are underfunded for taking care of our urban park system. We have other aging buildings, including critical public safety infrastructure and buildings, and the Age West facility. We also have unmet operational needs across the city. Folks are hearing us talk about, and we have been saying since 2014, we do not have the operating dollars to maintain the service levels we have.

[73:10] So we… our scenarios that we will prepare for you. Well, let me back up a little bit. I just want to remind folks, I'm going to say it again, no design decisions have been made about any recreation center. We are shaping scenarios utilizing the blended approach we have utilized since the 2014 plan. That's the graphic on the left. The lens on the outside is sustainability, equity, and resilience. Each scenario will synthesize the community engagement, the data, and the policy to inform the scenarios. And to fulfill our responsibilities and good governance and commitments, we will include how we're meeting indoor recreation needs. The one-time capital cost of constructions, we're hearing a lot about those. What we're not hearing a lot about at this point are the ongoing and annual operating costs or impacts on energy consumption. Those will be part of the scenarios that you all see.

[74:01] Which brings us to our next step. So, this date, April 1st, we know we need to poll the board after tonight's meeting for Monday or Tuesday of that week. We missed, I missed that that was the first day of Passover. So on April 1st, we're gonna have a study session, and we're gonna share with you scenarios that consider how to meet community needs, and you're gonna see the impact of each scenario on capital costs, operating costs. energy consumption, and how they meet recreation needs. Your input will be an input that City Council considers when they have a study session on April 9th. Their study session will consider holistic city needs, and there will be a focus on the recreation centers. Those conversations in April will inform Council's deliberations in May on potential ballot measures. Their May conversation will inform summer work around polling and final ballot language. For any measures that might advance the November election. If approved by voters, any additional funds would begin with 2028 capital development, which will begin in Q2 of 2027.

[75:06] And then as it relates to the 27 through 2032 Capital Improvement Program, we will start talking about that in April. So just for folks who are wanting to see it updated in the program right now, really the capital improvement program for the next 6 years starts getting developed in April and May. So, as it relates to the Rec Center's funding and upcoming investments, the City Charter outlines the role of the PRAB. If any spending on these projects comes from the Permanent Parks and Recreation Fund, the PRAB must make a recommendation to City Council. The PRAB also must make a recommendation concerning the operating capital budgets. And we're asking for your advice on the facility funding scenarios in April. So that brings me to our questions for you. First, and I'll turn it over to the chair to facilitate this portion of the meeting, I could just leave the questions up for you, Madam Chair.

[76:04] Thank you, Allie. All right, so questions. Do you have any questions on the information shared and clarified in the packet, online, or the FAQs? In the FAQs, or tonight's presentation. And number two, do you have any questions on the process ahead, or Prabh's role? So I will pass that to the board. Who would like to begin with questions? All right, Mike, go ahead, yep. Thanks for that presentation, Ellie. I just want to say that I really appreciate that FAQ. that came out, I mean, it… I think it, goes a long way towards dispelling some of the misinformation that's getting around. Right off the bat, that no decisions have been made. And you hear sometimes, at least in the City Council presentation, you heard more frequently about, South Boulders going away. the pool's going away, and that's not the case, so I'm glad that that is out there and published, and it also helps inform me if I get any questions about, you know, how I can respond to them.

[77:08] So that's my comment. And then my question is, what's our role in the April 9th City Council meeting, if any? Do we have… Do we provide information, or should we… You know, what do we do for that? That's a really great question. In a situation like this, typically what would happen is at the end of the study session, we might prompt you for consensus on talking points to share with City Council, if you're able to get there. Another thing that would happen is that we would give a staff summary of the study session. Sometimes, when there is a matter that particularly impacts one department that has an advisory board, City Council may ask for a representative of the board to join their meeting to speak on behalf of the board. And again, per your… per the charter, that member would have to be authorized to speak on behalf of the board. So, TBD, I love that question, because we can try and get really clear about that for April 1st.

[78:06] Alright, thank you. Anybody else with a question or response to the questions for Prabh? Yep. Ali, at times during these conversations, it's been suggested that, surely we can just ignore some of the code requirements for a building like this to save costs or to preserve the envelope of the building. Can we do that? My simple answer is no, and I am going to look to one of my colleagues here, Michelle, if you don't mind just answering that a little more expertly. So Michelle Crane, Chief Architect for the City of Boulder. Hi, good evening. Thank you for having me. Thank you, Allie, and I really appreciate being able to be here. and help answer any questions. It is sort of a simple answer that no, we can't really just set aside codes, particularly codes that deal with life safety. Most of our building codes, really where fundamentally we start with these buildings when we're assessing what we can do. You said it quite well about South, we're constrained.

[79:05] A lot of them are just born out of development in life safety. A building that hasn't seen, an update in 30 years. A lot of code development in that time that really advances preservation. For safety reasons. So, you can't just set those aside. Similarly with energy codes, they've been developed, they're brought through a rigorous process to come forward and to ultimately be adopted. They're not really something. We want to set aside, they're good facility management. The energy codes that we have actually are good stewardship of our buildings, and they're something that have been reaffirmed by our community about our commitment to our climate goals, so we really don't want to set those aside, but we also can't set those aside, too. Ali, one other, for you. One thing we hear about a lot from the community is how valuable this is to the schools. You know, the Fairview swimmers have practiced there. We also hear that

[80:04] it's an emergency evacuation point. Can you talk to us about how you're consulting with the school district in this process, and where they're being engaged? Yeah, I always want to be careful. I certainly cannot speak on behalf of the Boulder Valley School District. I can, I can, speak to some shared talking points. Because we are working very, very closely with BVSD. I think I… the… I don't know if it's this memo or a different one that mentions the ways in that we work together. So, one, there's a joint use agreement that clarifies how the athletic work happens across the city. We have a sharing agreement where we try and not write each other checks. We have community amenities that have been paid by the community. So, for example, the Boulder High baseball team uses Scott Carpenter Field, and their swim teams uses. use both South Boulder and North Boulder Recreation Center. We, in the summer, get to benefit from empty schools for some of our camps. They're really successful due to the ability of the elementary schools. That is entirely a… optional agreement. It's a best practice, and we have one. What the school district has told us about pools is they're simply not in a place to be investing in pools. They are dealing with declining enrollment and some really hard choices themselves.

[81:14] We will continue to be partners and keep them in the loop as we talk about design of facilities, but they're not in a place to contribute to funding. As it results to what, the school district calls it, reunification points, and I don't know if it's state code or school, law, whatever it is, every school has to have 3 reunification points. It is not mandatory that it's a recreation center, and in fact, most schools in BBSD don't have a recreation center nearby. It's out of just great opportunity that South can serve as reunification for both Southern Hills and Fairview. And again, but it's not required, it's not a mandated function that we're performing. Sorry to press you a little bit, but, can you give us any specifics as to, like, how you're engaging with the school district? Well, I can give a specific… We're talking about the joint use agreement, but, like, is… are there statutorily required meetings with the district during the process, or…

[82:06] So on the Joint Use Agreement, twice a year we have something called the JUIT, because we like acronyms in government. It's the Joint Use Interagency Team. And those folks get together and talk about how are things working, right? So the joint use agreement has a lot of requirements around field space and lane hours and how we're going to make decisions, and Scott actually might… he attends those if you want to add anything, but… so that happens twice a year, but I think the question behind your question maybe speaks to just needs and… and levels of service around pools. So the school district did contribute, and were a partner in the Recreation Indoor Needs Assessment. We know from that, and I think someone quoted earlier, our rec centers are really challenged in meeting aquatic needs for our community. We've known for a while that the rec centers are not meeting community needs around warm water wellness, which is critical for Learn to Swim and for our aging population, for people recovering from injuries, for people with disabilities. The east… the pool there for warm water is pretty constrained.

[83:02] So I… the school district participated in that, but also we know the rec centers are pretty limited in their ability to meet competitive aquatic needs and high school needs. If you're gonna have a facility for high school swimming, you have the ability to have there's safe support requirements around locker rooms to protect athlete safety. There's requirements around deck space and, visitor viewing, and I'm really stumped. There's just lots of things that you need for meets that our rec centers are not designed, nor should they be. Someone mentioned when there are swim meets in the rec centers, it limits the community from accessing a facility. The school district, we're all aware of that. Again, if we were in a world where there were blank checks, we would have an aquatics facility in our community. We swim. We know this, right? This… we're not trying to ignore that our community loves to swim. We know it. Our community swims at higher levels than national averages, and so we're… we've mentioned we're not interested in reducing that pool space. I think I'm saying more than your question at this point, but…

[84:05] Did I get there? Any other questions, I have questions, but… Go ahead. Do you have anything? Gosh, it's good. Go ahead, okay. So, I think some of the heartache that we hear from the South Boulder residents is, that… for years, way longer than I've been on this board. For years, I've been hearing that South Bulldirect Center has been, you know, in an urgent crisis situation. And for… for… for this body to then send, essentially, $53 million to bring East Boulder up to energy codes and ADA issues, I think that's where the tension is created in the community. And justifiably so, because $53 million is a lot of money to bring a building up to code, and not to add any programmatic enhancements. So, I think that's where the heartache is, and I think that's… we just need to be honest that when you're putting

[85:14] I mean, an extraordinary amount of money, which is important towards the East Boulder Rec Center. I think we absolutely need to do whatever we need to do to take care of it. But it's still a lot of money, and we're in an economically constrained environment, as everyone here knows. So that is the tension that we're dealing with, especially since we keep hearing that South Boulder Rec Center is end-of-life. So, I think what I would like to see is, or maybe it's more of a question, is you mentioned earlier that, you know, we're trying to do everything, we're trying to understand what our design options are, we have several designing scenarios that are being considered, on the East for East Builder Rec Center, but I haven't any insight or line of sight on what we're doing for South, because you know, up until just a few months ago, when we invested in the South Boulder Rec Center.

[86:04] We haven't heard, since I've been on this board, about any design plans for… for South Boulder Rec Center. So, I would like, if we could, before we get to that April 1 study session, or whatever that date's gonna be. is, do we have anything on the table in terms of, is the architecture… is Perkins and Will preparing a concept design for potentially keeping the pool in place, putting, in, you know, engineering some solutions between the water of Vili Lake and the existing location of the pool, and if so, what would that cost? Because if you're doing all of these design scenarios for East, so that we can understand what to choose from and what's the best way to use taxpayer dollars, I think it's only fair and equitable to do the same thing for South. And so far, the only thing I've seen is that the needs assessment says conclusory. we have to tear it down. We can't… we can't renovate it. I don't… I don't think that's a fair conclusion, because to date, I've seen no engineering decisions that conclude that. All we're doing, even in the FAQ, is concluding that it's a teardown. That's… that's… that's… there's nothing backing that up. There's no quantifiable…

[87:17] Design solutions that are out there with cost estimates to tell us, absolutely, it is not worth redesigning or, trying to fix the existing footprint and potentially expanding it. So, what I would ask is to make the April session actually meaningful, I would say if staff could at least put one scenario, one design scenario into that consideration for South Boulder, where we're not talking about, a complete teardown, but help us understand How we could possibly retain the existing footprint using brilliant engineers to tell us how we can keep the water infiltration and water table issues

[88:02] from, further damaging the existing pool, footprint, how… what would that cost us? Because that's just sort of common sense. When you walk into South Boulder Rec Center, and you walk into North, and you walk into East. Pretty much, they… they look… nothing looks like it's falling down in South. I go there every day to swim. Almost every day. So, if we could ask the staff to buy, whenever we do this study session, give us an idea of how much it would cost from the architecture firm's standpoint, give us a concept plan on renovating South. expanding it, sure, there's ADA issues, totally agree with that, ADA issues. How do we redesign that entry? How do we push it out to the side where we have space? How do we potentially keep the footprint of the pool? How do we engineer some solutions to protect it from further issues? Just give us some understanding so we can compare, just like you're doing for EAST, which is…

[89:03] important. I agree with that. We should have several design scenarios, but we need at least one other design scenario for South that tells us what would it cost to do just a renovation and not a full teardown. So that's what I would like to ask. I don't know if I have to make it in a motion, but I would like to see that happen. I'd love to respond to a few of the things that you shared there, Yvonne. First is, I want to clarify, you've said… you said a couple of times in there, $53 million just for an energy renovation, and that… that's not accurate. That was what was said at multiple meetings. It's on the record. So maybe that's not true now, but it was. I… I'm struggling with… you're seeing me think about my words, because I feel like there's been a cherry-picking of sentences or phrases, and what I… hope we can move forward with is that the East project is both about meeting energy code and both about meeting recreation needs. And I'll flip then to South, and so… and I'm… it sounds like it wasn't clear. What the Prabh will see in April are scenarios for the recreation system.

[90:09] And so, just like we're developing scenarios for East, we are developing scenarios for South. You've not seen scenarios for East, you've heard about them, we've talked about them, and I understand hearing pieces of information and piecemeal has created some concern. You will see scenarios for South. I do not think that you will see a scenario that fixes the current pool, and I'll just share what I said again earlier tonight, and I think it's in your email now, because you had asked that question. To make the current pool, to make it last, and Michelle is going to jump up if I say something wrong here, right? It requires a complete replacement within the next 10 years. We have bought time. I want to make sure that's the other point that is clear. South is not an imminent danger. We have spent millions of dollars. To give us time. We recognize we're behind the curve. We want to plan. We've bought time so that we can thoughtfully plan for the next 50 years. To just fix the current pool will require us to meet code. There is code requirements around space from the water to the wall that we cannot meet in the existing shell without losing

[91:12] Pool space, and add an astronomical cost. We don't think it's a scenario that makes sense for the community, because to the other comments around design, and accessibility, and supporting our community for the next 50 years, you're gonna see scenarios That consider those four elements, not just community needs and recreation needs, but the cost of construction, the cost of operations, and their impact on energy. Just out of curiosity, in general, how long… Do you think, It has taken to get to where we are. on East, like… And I kind of say it in… just in response to Yvonne's question, because I feel like the ask to have a

[92:07] plan by April 1st for South Boulder, even preliminary, is… probably something that would be really super rushed. So I just want to kind of make sure that, from a timeline perspective, I understand… Where… how long it took to get to East, and how long it might take to get to South. I really appreciate that question, because that's a good clarification. You will not see architectural renderings for North and South in April, because those projects are not within the scope of the Perkins and Will contract. Looks like Michelle has something helpful to say in it, so I'm gonna let her do it. I just want to add a little to really, important questions around South, and I appreciate… there's sort of two sides. It's so helpful to see engineering in a complete report that helps really explain how decisions are made, or when you come to even interim decisions around projects. And at the same time, we try to be efficient with how we're assessing

[93:09] Frankly, our job and our department is assessing 75 buildings that are in the state of these centers. it is the experience that we have now had over decades, and with a team of architects in our department, looking at South and some of the things that were just articulated that have drawn us to these conclusions around our ability to efficiently and effectively reuse that building shell. We know enough about the improvements we have to make for ADA, because we've been doing them in multiple other buildings. We know what those requirements are going to be. We know the constraints. We do have in-house architects, myself included, with decades worth of experience, who've looked at that and now assessed With the costs that we know, with the costs of renovation versus new construction, and renovations are really hard. They're costly, they're more costly than new construction. We've demonstrated this now time and again, that it is just really difficult to renovate south.

[94:06] So, we want to look at these other options. But, so we have not come to, a complete engineering analysis. We've… we've just understood that through our experience with so many other renovations that we've completed and new construction projects, to really recommend that South, when we look at that, that we look at options that consider a new center. So I think that's… that is part of our analysis. So now we are looking at what those various options are, and that's where we have not made any decisions. We're working with Allie and her team to assess, like, what are the scenarios? We have enough cost information about what pools cost, what these different parts and pieces are, to assemble enough information to make those informed decisions. Jenny, did we get to the question behind your question there? Yeah, I think, I feel, I feel… I understand that, yeah. Thank you. So. Thank you for that comment. That's helpful, to know that there's… I know it's… there's a lot going on in making these decisions, and that there… and that confirming that there hasn't been a deep engineering analysis. I think that's helpful, too.

[95:07] I think, just, I will voice the concern I hear from the community. is that with the $53 million to bring east up to code, and the original circulating numbers around building a brand new South were, I think, $30 million. I don't know where that came from. you know, whether there was a concept plan, I wasn't on the board when that was decided. But, again, what I'm trying to do is help the community understand this is a very complicated process, but the optics are, at least at the moment. You spent… you're spending $53 million to bring a building up to code. and you're… you said that our facility in South, this is what the community is saying, South would cost $30 million to build a brand new facility, so something doesn't feel right, right? That's kind of the optics of what's happening in the community, and the mistrust that you're talking about. When you… when you hear these things, that's what's… that's what's percolating in the neighborhood, is like, wait a second.

[96:07] We just, we just voted in November 262 million. And many, I can tell you, because I live in South. Many community members thought they were voting for that because they thought, that they were going to get money for the rec centers, for South, right? They thought that. And now there's this bigger conversation, of course, that has to happen citywide. We've got a lot of needs that aren't just recreation centers, and so I just want us to be sensitive to the fact that the mistrust is coming because we're not being transparent. We're just not. When I have to dig to understand why we would spend $53 million to bring one building up to code, but we can't find the money to rebuild South, and it's been urgent for, I think Ryan said, 11 years. I mean, there's something that's not working here. So, I think we… what I would like to see, if we can't get it done by April, I understand that. Design takes a long time, a lot of planning goes into that.

[97:03] But what I would like to see is that there is some equity in the way we're planning, because we're doing a lot of work behind the scenes, trying to plan, trying to understand holistically where the needs are… can be met. But, you know, in October, at the October meeting, we heard that there was this flip concept. We're not only considering building… bringing east up to code, but we're also considering adding pool capacity our pool lane capacity at east, which would require, literally, building a brand new pool on the other side of the property, and we… you know, I work in the industry, a pool costs 20 to 40 million to build. That's… that's just… facts. So, if we're spending $53 million just to bring East up to code, then how much is it going to cost to add more scope, to add a new pool, warm… build a brand new capacity at East? And all along. South Boulder residents are going, well, wait a second, why can't we just use that third… the $30 million that supposedly it will cost to rebuild South? Why can't we just do that? And while we're building a new pool, if we have to, because that's what the city's telling us.

[98:11] Why can't we build new capacity into South? So there's just this disconnect, and that's what's creating the mistrust, and I don't think that's healthy, because if the community doesn't trust us, then they're going to continue to… think we're doing things behind the scenes, that we're not being honest, we're not being transparent, but that is what's fueling all this, and that's why I'm requesting that we do invest some design scenarios so that we can understand, well, what are we planning for South? What are our options so that we can actually cost them, because As we go into this facility funding discussion, strategic funding, how are we going to decide that if we don't even know what it would cost to renovate South? We don't know that. I just want to, put on the record, just because I, I know you keep, Yvonne, you keep saying that the $53 million, the public mistrust, is coming from the $53 million for, energy upgrade, or…

[99:02] And I think whether that was said or not set, or however it was, let's just go on record to say that's not what the $53 million is going to cover. I mean, right, Ellie? I would like to know what that is. Because that's what was said on the record multiple times. Okay, but before we get to that part, I just want to make sure that I under… that we… everybody understands that… at this point, and I think we can get into that, not necessarily right here, but… that that $53 million is not just for energy upgrades. It is not, and again, I'm. concerned about a… maybe the project's been summarized in conversations, and people out of lingo, and because there's no three-letter acronym for the project, we've said the East Energy Retrofit. I want to remind folks that We spent money and did the recreation needs a specimen, or on record also multiple times, saying that a goal of that project is to inform recreation needs for the East Boulder Community Center project. It is… concerning To hear that being perpetuated, because it's not accurate.

[100:05] So can you tell us what the scope of the $53 million pays for? I cannot, because we're going to be bringing you scenarios so that you can help inform and give options, because we have options. And so there's not a decision, and so I cannot tell you the scope of what the $53 million is paying for. Well, you did say in your presentation that $10 million is for the initial. There's an initial phase that's going to address code compliance and failing infrastructure in the 8 well ring. So that we know, so that's a good thing to know. So I think just even based on the packet tonight, and now that's public record, that we can let the public understand, so we can try to walk back some of the mistrust. I mean, a lot of it's in there tonight. So, I mean, hopefully you can help share that. at least the beginning of that conversation with the community, and I'm sure we can as well, just so they understand that we do have, We do have a $53 million budget for it, but it is… not… we have some idea of where it's going at this point, and then we'll learn more in April. So I just… I kind of want to make sure that we move on from that particular topic, because that was discussed in the slides, and…

[101:11] And we'll hear more about it in April. So I… that I want to get across, but also, I know that Kira had a… I just wanted to say that I agree, I think based on the presentation, we learned that, that the money for EAST is going to address critical building infrastructure, and I think that we all agree that that's, you know. there's a critical need at that center. So again, when it comes to transparency with the community, I love the FAQs. I think that those really did a, you know, a good job of trying to explain what are the different needs across the different recreation centers, so I guess just a couple questions. In creating the FAQs, they're amazing. Is there a way that we could do this even more, like, preemptively, as we're getting to, like, thorny

[102:01] topics or issues. So that if we had these FAQs available maybe even, like, a couple of months ago, I could see that that, helping to, you know, guide these conversations with the community. And then my other question is, are there any plans to update these FAQs as we go along, and then what is sort of, like, that communication mechanism to let everyone know that new questions have been added, or responses have been, edited, so that we can continue this, you know, really addressing all of those core questions that the community has, which, in my opinion, reading through the FAQ, It was very, simple, to the point, clear, concise, and helped To spell any rumors, around these recreation projects. Thank you for that. So, FAQs are a tool we use. It typically is when engagement has begun, and we start hearing the frequently asked questions, right? I mean, in an ideal world, we would be able to predict those, but maybe that's where we could be better. I'll just note, we have had FAQs for this project since the fall of 2024. I think they've been updated 3 different times.

[103:08] This most recent round of updates, Scott and the team have been listening carefully to public comment, they've been reading the emails carefully, and they've collated the frequently asked questions. from those engagements with the community, and also we've gotten input from some board members that we've also tried to address. We've been hearing your comments and reading your emails, and I think some of the FAQs answer questions we've heard from you all, so I… I appreciate, like. I want to go back to something Yvonne said about just the transparency, is I do think, you know, we've been quiet for a while, since October in the Recreation Needs Assessment, as we're trying to come up with scenarios that are feasible. and that we can come up with. I'm hearing, really, and Yvonne shared it in her comments, like, there, there's a… there's really a sense of urgency around answers and decisions now, and we're not going to have them until, really, November, right? We're on a months-long process and conversation.

[104:06] Around… but it is our intention to… to answer the South question this year. We've also been on the record saying that since the fall of 2024. And so I understand folks are getting antsy, and especially as we start talking about scenarios. Again, I mentioned earlier, there's worry, there's concern, but we have… I think we're on the record multiple times, and for a very long time, saying that we would be answering this question this year. Kind of a question and a comment, too. I guess that's my format of… speaking. But I think it would be helpful for us to better understand our role as Prabh. It seems to me that we are primarily an advisory board. We have very limited Authority to ask you to do any particular thing, is my understanding. And, I think it would be helpful for all of us to understand what we can and can't do. And I'm sure that you guys are super busy, and that's why…

[105:07] You know, we have this timeline about when you're going to get us information, about what we're going to be able to, to review or to look at and provide you our input, but that's about the sum and substance of what we can do. And I think we have to respect your timeline about when you're going to get us this information, and while we may want to get this information now. My understanding is, I can't tell you to give it to me. Is that… is that the way you understand our role? So you're. Our role is… my understanding is based on the city charter, which is basically our Constitution, and then the code is the legislative authority that enables it. And so the Prabh Charter, we'll revisit this presentation in April. I'm happy to send it to you all, but it's also spelled out in your handbook. So you have several functions that are shall, meaning you are required. You shall approve expenditures from the Permanent Parks and Recreation Fund. You shall approve The disposal of parkland.

[106:00] Everything else is aligned with other advisory boards in the city, and they are Mays. You may be consulted by the department on matters performing to the PRAV, and I want to… I want to not minimize that. Your input, your advice, we bring you topics where we want you to help us make the work better, right? We're doing that with this project. The PRAB may request information of staff, and where it aligns with your role, where it aligns with the project, where it aligns with our capacity, we almost always can. Sometimes we cannot. And I just wanted to mention also, I think it's a… A big win that… we did get extra life out of South Boulder Rec based on the work of the staff and the passion from the community. So, now that we're not in a, position where it is. I mean, we know that it's end of life, but it's end of life with some time, so people can continue to utilize what is a very valuable community resource. So I just wanted to kind of acknowledge that win in this conversation.

[107:02] Yes, that's fine. Yeah, I agree with that. I think that's the first time I've heard today that the $2 million invested in South takes it off the urgency list. And I think that's helpful for the community to know, because I think the community has been saying, wait a second, we're, like, the most urgent facility out of all rec centers. And we're moving forward with $53 million on East. I mean, so there… anyway, it's just there's this disconnect, but I agree with you. That's good to know. I think… I appreciate Michael's question about our role, because I think that's important to know, but I will say that you know, I didn't sign up to serve on this board as an advisor, to make recommendations or rubber stamp anything. You know, I view my role as, I'm here to speak for the people of Boulder. Not just South, but the people of Boulder. And we've heard multiple times in all of the outreach that we did last year, that

[108:02] not just north, and not just east, but the entire Boulder community wants pools. And they all want, you know, and what happens at South, what, you know, closures or whatever, ends up impacting the other rec centers. So I think all of us as a community recognize the importance of all three centers. Where it's gotten challenging is that we hear, and I think one speaker said this, I think it might have been Chrissy, I can't remember, somebody said that we're making policy decisions by not answering, by not prioritizing a pool itself. I don't know if those were her exact words, but she was saying, essentially, like, the indecision or the decision to say, we're not going to promise a pool itself is a decision to the community. And that falls really hard when you think about what they've been telling us for the last year, and in all the needs assessments that were conducted. Everybody says, we want more pools. Yet, what we're… what we continue to debate for some reason is, well, we may not be able to do a pool.

[109:05] we might be able to build this big Olympic-sized competitive pool somewhere in Northeast Boulder, that's with the rumor, I don't know if that's true, but, like, there's just all of this information going on where at least the South Boulder residents are just saying. something doesn't feel right. Like, we've told you in multiple outreach meetings that we need a pool. We want the core services itself, just like we have had for 50 years. So if we can't make a policy decision and say, yes, we're gonna do a pool, now let's figure out what we're gonna do. then that's a decision that we're making. We're deciding that it's not a priority at South by not prioritizing that as an element of South, no matter what we do. I've got a few. First of all, I want to ask, and I have an answer to this, I think I have the correct answer, but I'm going to ask anyway, Where did the $30 million for a new SPRC facility come from?

[110:05] I was thinking that maybe it's taking $1,000 a square foot times 30,000 square feet. We don't think that's a real number. I don't remember… that doesn't mean it hasn't been said or guessed somewhere. came from, from Scott at a meeting, maybe in October, when… when you said, oh, well, you know, the new REC facility in Fort Collins cost about $30 million. Scott Schutenberg, Deputy Director. I will say the number that I had quoted back in October was 80. million for the facility in Fort Collins. Okay. Okay, so I wanna ask… my colleagues. To stop using that number. Somebody said it as a rough estimate. Yeah. It is based in nothing. It is based in nothing. It was somewhere documented, in writing, somewhere on the website, I think, is where we saw it. It's being… it's circulated. It's certainly circulated. There's no doubt about that.

[111:00] But it's based on nothing, I think we need to stop using it. Because I think a very important part of this process I think… as I just said, I think… I thought I heard Scott say it, maybe it was someone else. But it was not said in a way that was like, we've done an estimate, and this is the cost. It was a… it was a, back-of-the-napkin, mental, quick calculation to give us a number to help the discussion move forward. It was not based on engineering, it was not based on architecture, it was based on… ephemera, okay? So, I think the idea that we can just, like, take $30 million from one project and move it to another project, is just a conversation we're having without actual facts. And I think we need to ground this conversation in facts. As much as we possibly can. And that includes the facts of the process, which includes the timeline, which we have, as Ali said earlier, we've always said we're going to make a decision this year, okay? So if… the community, and we… I agree, Yvonne, and everyone, like, we have heard a lot, like, they are anxious, they love this facility, the kids love this facility.

[112:06] I love this facility, you use this facility, right? Like, we all love it, we all want a decision. We can't rush government. And it's our role you know, you said you see our role as speaking for the people. I see our role as speaking between the people and the government. I think it's our role to understand the processes better, I think we all do. And… I really want to ask all of us to, To use our expertise, and not to pick and choose numbers, and when we hear something that we know is an estimate, not to throw it around in the meeting. You just said… you just said a new pool would cost $30 million, you said it a minute ago. No, not a new pool. A new rec center, a new rec center. Yes, I said, because that is so excited. A new pool, you just said a minute ago, you thought a new pool would cost $30 million, and… 20 to 40 million, that's what I said. 20 to 40, okay.

[113:00] heard from staff just a couple of meetings ago that that number is grossly inflated. So I think when staff tells us something is grossly inflated, it's incumbent upon all of us to hear that and to use those numbers, and not to use things we're making up. Okay? Because this has become very charged. And I think it's something that we need to… we need to have a role in Calming things down, so that the process can go forward, and hopefully so we can have cooperation from the South Boulder community in getting the rest of the city in line. That's what has to happen here. - My role is not to get South Boulder Community in line. That is not my role. My role is to hear what they have to say through the needs assessments that we've done, the outreach. My role is to read transcripts of past meetings, listen to meetings, which I've done. more than you can count hours. How I've gone back, listened to meetings. transcribed meetings, and the 30 million, I can't remember where it came from, but that was not something that I created. And the 20 to 40 million, that's an RS means number. That is a credible construction data source

[114:09] that says that's how much the range is to build a brand new pool. That's a… that's a known industry, resource, okay? So I'm not citing anything off the top of my head. So, the idea that, again, back in October, I went and listened to the meeting. I went and read the transcript. That, at that point in time, had confirmation on the record that the $53 million was to bring that building up to code, to address all the issues that we… that Allie demonstrated, to bring the building up to code, not to add any, programmatic, like, flipping the pool. That was not within that $53 million. So I'm surprised now to hear that that's not the case. I am not trying to proliferate false information. I actually spend a lot of time going back to The website, going back to the transcripts, listening to the hearings.

[115:01] So I spend the time doing that, so I'm not proliferating falsehoods here. I'm not doing that. And I don't appreciate you accusing me of that. I, I don't, just to kind of… start a wrap-up on this conversation, because we're over time here. I think that everybody has… we've had a lot of conversations about this over the last few months, for sure. Everybody has taken information in, we've given out estimates, but at the end of the day, what we… what we're here… we have to trust what staff says, and… Of course we can question anything that comes up, but just to kind of wrap up the conversation a little bit, we know today that $53 million is not just to bring the building up to code, even if we've heard it, now we know, so we can get that out there. We know that $30 million is just an estimate. For all we know, it could be $80 million, like in Fort Collins. Like, we just have… No concrete, because we have no designs at this point, for any…

[116:00] No finalized, approved designs for any rec center renovation or. replacement. There's been no decisions on any renovation or replacement at this point. We are still inside the planning process here. We certainly are within, the board. Like Allie said, we may request any information that we Would like to request, whether or when it is provided, is the jurisdiction of the staff. I agree with you that, I believe I'm on this board also to speak for the people. If somebody sends me an email, I prefer to bring that up at some point during a meeting and say this is something that the community is concerned about. I also realize that being on this board. Staff as a… as a whole. does a good job, they've been hired for their expertise, they know and understand that a renovation's gonna cost more. I mean, just not that I want to flame the fire here, but if those numbers were correct, and $53 million was the cost for the renovation, and $30 million was the cost for the replacement.

[117:10] Right there, we can clearly understand that a renovation's gonna cost more than a replacement, even though we know right now that those numbers aren't Solid in any fashion, and, have not been written down with costs associated across the board. So, just to get to a point here, I think that now we… we have some concrete numbers. We know that South Boulder is… has extra life. We know that East Boulder does not, based on the conversation today, and we will have more information as the system as a whole in April, when we get together for our study session. And at that point, then, we can provide information In talking points via the staff or via one of the members of PRAB to go and talk to City Council about that. At that point, City Council is going to determine how they're going to write a ballot measure, because at the end of the day, being fiscally constrained, we don't have

[118:10] the funds to do everything that we want to do, and those funds will have to come through ballot measure in November. And if that ballot measure doesn't pass, then we're gonna have an entirely new conversation. Is that a general wrap-up of today's conversation? The only, I think, important… point to clarify is that the facility funding scenarios will consider all three facilities, and they will consider available funding. And so, it… I don't think it's a certain… I want to be careful with my words here… That additional funding Is required, because it depends on the stack. and the needs across the city, again, the public safety building, the fire stations, and the prioritization. We've bought time for South so that it doesn't need to be at the top of the list, but it's on the list.

[119:03] And then I'll just note that we're tomorrow, I'm looking at Clarissa, who can help, we're gonna send a poll for March 30th or March 31st, I believe. For a study session. Okay, so, as we get to the end of this conversation, moving into Pearl Street. Is there any final comments from anybody on the board before we wrap this up and move on? Just one… Promise, just may… I wanted to make a motion, but I don't know if it's appropriate to do it now, or to do it at the, you know, matters from the board, in terms of including scenarios. design scenarios for South, in terms of renovation, with engineered solutions, that kind of thing. I can do that later, if that's more appropriate. Are you making a motion that the… can you… I have a… drafted it, so I'll just tell you what I was going to say. So I would move that PRAB formally request staff to include, as part of the April 1 session, or whatever the study session material, whenever that's going to be, include in the materials at least one renovation scenario for South Boulder Rec Center that evaluates maintaining the existing pool footprint with engineered solutions

[120:13] Including preliminary cost estimates so the board can compare that option against full replacement. And, my comment to that would be that I don't think it's possible. So, at some point, yeah, I can make an amended motion. Like, just to ask that that happen, not necessarily by that deadline. Yeah, I don't think that that would require a motion. I think that you can just make that request. Okay. I do think Yvonne is following the Prabh handbook, that if she's proposing a matter from the board. where you all would ask us and direct us to explore this, and so I do think that the motion should be discussed, or she can ask that you two bring it during your agenda-setting meeting. Those are the two mechanisms you have for getting something on the agenda. So she can make a motion that is explored, typically during matters from the board.

[121:04] Or, she can bring it… she can send it to the chair and vice chair to be discussed at agenda setting. Because she's asking that you give formal direction. Yeah. I mean, I guess my concern with that is that that's something that will be Yeah, okay, you can… Take the motion how it's presented. Yeah, I'm thinking about it, just. Why don't… if you want to make the motion, why don't you make the motion, and see if you get a second? And if you get a second, then we can… Then we can discuss. Okay. Right now? Yep. Alright, so I move that PRAB formally request staff to include… at… in the near future, as we discuss funding facility needs or available funds, at least one renovation scenario for South that evaluates maintaining the existing pool footprint With engineered solutions, including preliminary cost estimates so the board can compare that option against the cost of full replacement.

[122:11] Okay, a motion has been made. Is there a second? I'll second it. Okay, so we have a second. Let's, discuss that particular… does anybody have any comments on that motion? I think what we discussed earlier, and what Ali mentioned, is that there is not a feasible way to maintain the footprint of the current pool in a renovation scenario, because doing any type of renovation to the pool at South Boulder Rec Center would mean that you need to bring it up to current standards and current code, which would mean that the pool would have to shrink in terms of its footprint. Allie, could an estimate like this be prepared by our staff architects, or would we need a new contract for design?

[123:03] So. to do this work, I want to… I'm looking to Michelle a little bit, because what I heard her say earlier is that this is what they… so, based on everything we know, all of the experience, all the documents we've done. to do a renovation in place would be incredibly expensive and result in a smaller pool. So the ask is, is that we spend money to legitimate that claim by our chief architect. So I would ask the architect, could I ask you a question, do you? So, are you… can you clarify, are you saying that you all have already conceptually tried to figure out the architectural solutions, engineering solutions that would keep the basic footprint of the pool. And we already know that the… and you've set a price to that. You already know a price, and if so, I'd like to kind of know what that is. So, over years, because we have been looking at this project over years, not only the pool, we have assessed, actually, multiple times the restrooms, and what would it take

[124:08] to get the locker rooms and the basic facilities up to meet ADA codes, to look at the different circulation through the building. Years ago, actually, we did a little bit more, I will call it back of the napkin conceptual sketches in-house. We actually, did have some consultants at the time who helped us, again, kind of roughly look at these numbers, and they helped us validate the same conclusions we came to, is that it would cost way more to renovate the facility than it would to build a new facility, and it has been our experience. I don't have those exact numbers. They are rough numbers, but they have been validated by our experience on multiple other projects and renovations, how costly it is. And this project, in our experience, is more complicated than other buildings that we've renovated that we thought were easier to renovate and have turned out to also be costly. So, I think Allie's statement is correct. We can certainly do this assessment. It would cost us money, so we would need to find funding

[125:08] to, engage both the design for that and get cost estimating to get that done. We do this work, we can do this work, but I think it would be basically validating What we have concluded, and frankly, what I'm seeing much of the industry concludes often, is that, this type of renovation is far more costly than building new. And I want to… I want to clarify the process comment I made earlier. So, Yvonne is following the proper process for something to come as a matter from the board, and that you can make a motion, it's… it still is in the advisory nature of the role, and so our response could be, we're not going to invest taxpayer dollars in that way because of the work that has been done. And so I just offer that as information as you consider this request.

[126:00] Yeah, I'd also, I wouldn't oppose the motion, because I don't think it's within our authority to direct, or the Parks and Rec Board to do anything of this sort. If you look at the Charter, and if you look at, yeah, Chapter 231, We just don't have the authority to make this request of you, and you can… it says may, as you pointed out, and there's some things that say shall, and this one is a may thing, and it's meaningless, a formal request is meaningless in the concept of, if you put it against the Charter, and you put it against, Chapter 2, dash 3-1. And so, I think… I would rather do something that, in… that we can agree upon with the staff when they have time to do this, and I understand something is coming, and so we can wait for that, as opposed to, doing a, doing a task or making a motion that essentially has no meaning. Thank you. Any other comments? Before a vote.

[127:01] Okay, so we have the motion on the table, we have a second on the motion, we've had discussion. All those in favor of the motion, say aye. All those against say nay. Nay. So, I don't think… I'm… do we need a roll call vote for that? Okay, so, 4 against 1-4… And more information to come in April. Alright, next up is Pearl Street Refresh. Alright, we're gonna take 30 seconds to reset up here. I'm… I'm actually gonna fill up my water. Can we, yeah, can we take, let's just… Two-minute bio break, water break? Yep, perfect. Thank you.

[128:24] All right, folks, as you get seated, I just… I'm gonna… you've met Shihomi before, but I just want to introduce our Senior Landscape Architect, Shihomi Kirigawash. You know her as, the lead on several of our critical projects, and she's here to kick us off tonight. Great, thank you, Ali, and thanks, Prabh Board, for having us back. I am. I'm here to kick off a Pearl Street Refresh project, and so. iconic project downtown in the heart of Boulder. I'm joined by my colleague, Julia Dulian, and she is our newest member to the BPR planning group, and she's a senior landscape architect. She will be the project manager for this project.

[129:07] And so, I think with that, we should kick off. So the intent tonight to bring the Pearl Street Refresh Project to Prabh is to consult on a few questions on the process and engagement. So we're at first stages of this project, and so we're kind of setting sail with you all, to review how our strategy and approach to the Pearl Street Refresh will go. To do that, we'll go through, a few of the project context parameters and background with you, why Pearl Street and why the investment for this specific project. We'll go through the project area, and really what the scope is, and then the timeline, the engagement schedule, and scope of work, as well as the team structure. So kind of setting you up for the framework of how we kick off. For this discussion, specifically questions to Prabh, and we'll pose these at the end. Does Prabh have any questions or comments on the project process? Does Prabh have any questions or comments on the engagement schedule? And so, we'll get through this whole presentation, and then open it up to discussion at the end.

[130:19] Alright, so a little bit about the project context. I'm sure I don't need to mention to you all where Pearl Street is located, but we are the heart of downtown, the city center, and the urban fabric of Boulder. And so, a lot of influence out from Pearl Street, but connecting to a lot of great assets that Boulder has. Including CU Campus, North Up, and surrounding a historic district around Pearl Street, as well as Civic Area Adjacent project connecting into and the Boulder Creek, so a lot to kind of connect into and take into consideration of Pearl Street and its influence out. And because of that. The why behind this project and why we're making an investment to do a refresh here is, we have such an iconic public space.

[131:08] Nationwide, Pearl Street is recognized as one of, sort of. the premier and historic district, a iconic retail and pedestrian mall. A lot of malls actually have closed around the country, and this prevails as still open, still successful pedestrian mall today. It is a beloved asset of the community and great public space. So knowing that, and really the priority of what this project takes, we know that it's also aging, and it's about 50 years old, which we are coming up on the 50th anniversary. So really keeping in mind, how we age and the facilities that we take care of looking out and planning for the future. We're gonna do a study with Pearl Street on, what amenities really need some love and upgrade, and then what are the immediate needs, that we need to address for this project.

[132:05] And, also knowing that the 50th anniversary is sort of an opportunity that we can take to, do engagement with the public to see kind of bigger picture and the vision of what could become, bigger enhancements in the future at a later date. I will say, too, that as we get into the scope that Julia will cover. Knowing that we're going into a fiscally constrained, year and several years, most likely, we're gonna strategize on really focusing in on what are our immediate needs, and then really studying what needs to be a long-term consideration. So we're trying to be pretty, precise on the funding that we spend around this project, and making sure that we're addressing what has to happen right away, and then also doing the study for long-term vision.

[133:00] So nice to meet you all. Happy to be here. So, we looked at the context area, but we do want to make clear that this project is focused on the pedestrian mall. the bricks, as it's commonly known, going from 11th Street to 15th Street. blocks. So, it is a short project. However, there are many tasks involved, and they relate together. So, this project will be occurring in 2026 and 2027. And… There are 5 tasks. I'll go into more detail of those tasks, but at a high level. We are taking the opportunity of the 50th anniversary to get a lot of improvements done, priority improvements, as well as maintenance. And then, we'll be… celebrating the 50th anniversary with temporary pop-up installations. But they're not just frivolous pop-up installations. They will have an intended purpose to pilot ideas. The Wildwoods

[134:10] Nature area is a great example of a successful pop-up that has piloted an idea in the city, and we will use those pop-ups to have an engagement window. To ask the community what they'd like to see long-term on Pearl Street. We'll also be having an existing conditions assessment, looking at the existing infrastructure of Pearl Street. And we'll take the feedback from the engagement windows and the existing conditions assessment, feed that into a concept design. With that concept design, we can start to fundraise and strategize what would a Phase 2 actually look like. So that would be the long-term improvements on Pearl Street. Speaking to the engagement schedule. We want to make clear that Downtown Boulder Partnership is leading programming on Pearl Street, and any engagement related to programming, so they will be leading the 50th anniversary events.

[135:06] We will be, leading CIP engagement, so that includes a kickoff in form on this project. building a foundation of knowledge, so looking at all of the past engagement that has occurred on Pearl Street, downtown, previous plans, history, and using that to provide the foundation of what exactly are we asking the community in Engagement Window 1. And we are working directly with Downtown Boulder Partnership on this project. We're coordinating with them on every step of the way to, feedback loop on both programming and physical improvements. And we'll take all of that into, again, the concept design. And Engagement Window 2, what we heard, bringing back the concept design to community, is really dependent on Phase 2, and that is a TBD at this moment. Okay, so to go a little bit into more detail on each task, the first task…

[136:07] pretty simple. Improvements, maintenance, what can we get done in the next year, basically up until Sundance, and then what can we do to refresh right before the 50th anniversary? But we can give you some examples, so cleaning and painting park assets, refresh of the gardens and the planters, some of the park… Infrastructure needs maintenance, restroom attendant and cleaning. And then safety improvements. We're working directly with our police and fire departments and urban rangers on what sort of safety improvements we need to see before these big events. The pop-ups, okay, so these are fun, they're temporary… Inexpensive installations that can quickly activate an urban area. And these will be physical pop-ups, kind of like what you see in these pictures. These pictures actually do a great job of showing what we might like to see in an urban area, and so these are areas for gathering, playing, socializing, and…

[137:08] we can really test out ideas of activating certain areas of Pearl Street. But also hold those engagement windows and support the events of the 50th anniversary. Existing conditions assessment, so we are hiring a consultant for this one, that's MIG, and they will provide an existing infrastructure conditions assessment. So, it's really important to note that there is underground utilities, aging infrastructure, that we really need to study. And as well as historical infrastructure, urban… the policies surrounding Pearl Street. So we'll look at all of that and get some recommendations for, long-term improvements, how much they might cost, and how they could be phased. Again, we'll take… feedback from the existing conditions assessment, from the community. We'll be talking to subject matter experts at the city, and feed that into a concept design.

[138:07] And then lastly, there's the planning and fundraising for Phase 2. We just want to make clear that there is no current funding for Phase 2 or for long-term improvements, but we're working towards seeing what that might… what we actually need on Pearl Street. mentioned subject matter experts, there's a long list of them here. We also have a great team of executive sponsors, our consultant team, and then the core team is Parks and Rec. a PRAB project liaison, City Manager's office, facilities, and then we are working directly with Downtown Boulder Partnership. So that's our summary of the project. These are our questions again. Does Prabh have any questions or comments on the project process? And do you have any questions about the engagement schedule? Thank you. Thank you for that, Julia. Madam Chair. Before you facilitate the conversation, I just want to add something in the context of our conversation earlier this… today about both capital and operating infrastructure. So,

[139:06] The primary source of income for our operating budget is sales tax, and Pearl Street is one of the major economic engines in our community, and so this is seen as an upstream investment. We know downtown We see lots of visitation from community members and from folks around, but office occupancy is down, and really, we're trying to maintain the vibrancy of Pearl Street. It's also one of the key community hubs, if we think about bans on the brick, and the holiday parade, and other things that happen. Having a strong downtown makes the whole city stronger, and I just… I know there's questions in times of the recreation center infrastructure, why do anything else? And really, this is an upstream investment to help drive sales tax revenue. Thank you, Allie. Thank you for the presentation. That was… That was great. I will turn it to the board for questions or comments.

[140:02] Go ahead, Mike. Does the Downtown Boulder Partnership, do they work with restaurants and some of the, persons or retail outlets on the mall? Yes, they, they do work with… Restaurants and businesses, and they also have a committee, That helps with their engagement, and programming on the mall. At least I've heard, and I've spoken to some people who are familiar with the restaurants have an association that, you know, is working with Sundance in order to optimize what kind of services they can provide. Is that something that we're doing also, or is that just the Downtown Boulder Partnership? Yeah, I think, Sundance is a great opportunity, and certainly, DBP, or Downtown Boulder Partnership, is working, closely to coordinate Sundance as they're sort of arriving, and will be a huge presence on Pearl Street January 2027. We are also looking to definitely coordinate where needed with Sundance as well. So we're sort of tightly aligned with DBP on those efforts, and anything that should arise for Sundance. Cool, thanks.

[141:12] And we are not working specifically directly with businesses. We would go to Downtown Boulder Partnership to be a liaison to them. Makes sense, thank you. to colloquy on that a little, could you give a little explanation to the board as to how the City and Downtown Boulder Partnership are affiliated and how they work together? Sure thing. So, Downtown Boulder Partnership operates in a few ways. So, much of the downtown falls within the Central Area General Improvement District. Downtown Boulder is the entity that manages the Business Improvement District, and so they get funding for the operations and upkeep of downtown. We partner with them closely on operations. This is one of our shining examples of an effective partnership. So we do maintenance on the mall, our incredible park team of Master Gardeners and others.

[142:00] We're there mostly, mornings till about 3 p.m. They pick up in the evenings and on the weekends, and so we work together on just basic maintenance cycles. They also are responsible for the programming on the mall, so those amazing events you see downtown, such as the Elf and Tulip Festival. Bands on the Bricks, those events are programmed by the Downtown Boulder Partnership. Thank you. Okay, comments? Kara? So I love the idea of, you know, testing and learning, putting something out there, seeing how people engage with that, to be able to move forward, especially in a cost-effective way. I was wondering if you could just talk a little bit about what are some of those ideas that you can test with a pop-up installation, and what are some of those ideas that it doesn't really make sense to have a pop-up installation, so you need to understand Community feedback in other ways.

[143:03] Yeah, so one or a few examples of pop-up installations would be movable furnishings to test out where people want to gather, connect, socialize. We sort of got a little bit of that testing, during COVID when we shut down some of the bookends of Pearl Street, and so hearing the feedback of community loving those spaces. Bringing some of that back onto the bricks, looking at things like. that, the success of Wildwoods, so play areas as one pop-up installation, would be something that we could test. So, a lot of, I would say, the physical and surface-level spaces of park features, playgrounds, seating, gathering spaces, we can test. It's really things that we can't test as well, like the policies that, Julia mentioned on looking at how well, Pearl Street functions in terms of operations or space activation. Do we want to provide more support for, more events, per se? So that's policy.

[144:06] Anything that's underground, so our water line, sewer line, there's an aging gas line under there. That would be more of a technical deep dive to figure out what is going to be needed for those improvements. So I think I answered some of your question. I hope that… That's helpful. Definitely. And I just, I think it's such a great way to visibly get everyone involved. You know, you can talk about different plans, but when someone walks down Pearl Street and sees something, they're gonna react, they're gonna know that we're working on something, they're gonna have opinions, they're gonna share it, so I think it's just a great way to engage the community. Yeah, more just a timing question. On the chart that was in the packet, the pop-ups happen in the spring of 2026, is that right? Is that a typo? We're gonna be designing them this year? Oh, that's.

[145:01] That's just designing… working on them, so that they're… they're happening in that way, that they're… we are starting to work on them, think about them, and plan them. Yeah. Okay, because I was confused about timing, because I think you said, the… the concept designs were being developed later. I think it said, study long-term improvements spring and winter of 26. I was confused on timing, but… Never mind, thank you. Can I clarify, too, on the concepts? So the pop-ups are gonna be these quick, fast installations that we test, so we're piloting ideas. that engagement… we'll get engagement from the community on how they like those ideas. Those will feed… the feedback will, then get input into the concepts. Yeah. Okay. Bernie, did you have a comment? Yep, this may go beyond parks a little bit, and you can say so if that's the case, but, there's a lot of empty retail real estate down there. And when we talk about this being an important economic engine,

[146:05] Do you have any thoughts, or can you share any thoughts you've heard from, Downtown Partnership about what we can do to fill up some of those storefronts? Well, I would just like to say that one of our tasks to the consultant is to do an urban design policy study. There was a retail study on Pearl Street prior to COVID, But things have changed, and so we're trying to look at, you know, what has made Pearl Street successful. All these years, but also what are other, communities around the world in pedestrian areas, not just pedestrian malls, what are they doing, for physical interventions, but also policy? And that might help create a stronger retail environment, and commercial. And I'll add to that that the city just completed last, I guess fourth quarter last year, a major realignment of some of the staffing structures. There is now, within the City Manager's office, the Office of Economic Development and Culture, and they are specifically focused on supporting economic vitality and business support. And in fact, I think there's a survey out now to just current business owners to say, what's working for you with the city, what's getting in the way? And we want to be an environment that is really friendly to businesses. We know that it's critical to our future.

[147:20] And sorry, one more last point on that. You know, we are limited in our scope as, as to what the businesses can do, but there might be physical, changes that could support businesses. There might be a reason people walk a certain way on Pearl Street and potentially miss a storefront. So, we'll be looking at that sort of thing as well. Any other questions or comments? I have just, one. the… I had heard that, Alloe Fiber is working on the infrastructure downtown. Are they planning on, do you know if that will impact Pearl Street?

[148:05] Like, the bricks, or how they're planning on installing that infrastructure? Oh, Mark looks like he's… Mark Davison, Planning Manager. Yeah, we did have a conversation about 18 months ago, and my understanding is… both the internet connectivity and the fiber connectivity would be sort of wrapped into this project, and that could include, adjustments to the lighting, for example, to add those, because the historic district would be done in a very subtle way, so people would notice, but they're just looking at that generally, and I believe… Jeremy, can you speak to that? XLR also looking at their work in the area? Yeah, so, working with Excel and then also our Climate Initiatives Department, I mentioned the aging gas line that runs actually down the middle of Pearl Street Mall, on the bricks, and so Xcel is doing a study of what can they do to upgrade gas and,

[149:00] electrical for the businesses around Pearl, and so we will wrap up our coordination with Excel. So, if they update the gas line through the middle, or if they choose to electrify on the backsides outside of Pearl, we're coordinating with them as well on those improvements. And those would be… Paid for by… those companies. Correct, yes. Great. Okay, any other questions or comments or feedback on… The refresh. Thank you, ladies, for a wonderful presentation. It's exciting. Congratulations. to Julia on her first flight with the Prab. Well done, thank you. Great job. It's a big milestone. Yes. Ladies, thank you so much. Okay, good. Okay. Alright, so we've, finished our number 7, matters from the department, now we're moving on to matters from the board.

[150:01] First… item on this… in this section is approval of revised PRAB meeting dates. Yeah, I'll just… these were the dates discussed in your January meeting. We're just putting them in writing so that we can affirm and adjust all of this. This allows for… being the fourth Monday of the month is delightful, except for when it impacts all of the holidays mentioned there. So, these are the dates, and we're confirming that with you. Did anybody have any questions about the dates that we decided on in the last meeting? I know you weren't there for that. You're good, okay. All right, and so the only date that we have to decide now is the, study session, which will be coming out via poll. Yes, we'll send a poll tomorrow. Okay. All right, great. Next on… in this section is, public comment procedural update. Yeah, so staff prepared this item on your request. We just… there's been regular requests from one of our public commenters to review our procedures to make sure they're more consistent with other boards, and so I'll call out Clarissa again here. She did some great work and are proposing some revisions to procedure to align with other boards and City Council.

[151:14] The first is just to clarify that, yes, advanced sign-up is helpful, and I'll call it out, this is because of the hybrid nature. Some of our boards have two people doing what Clarissa did tonight, managing the Zoom, managing this room, managing the things. It's just, when people sign up in advance, it's a little bit easier, and we'll still allow sign-up if people show up at the meeting. Clarissa facilitated that flawlessly tonight. And then the other one is that if you were to have… to limit public comment to 45 minutes of your meeting. And so tonight, we had 15 speakers, 3 minutes a person. It worked out flawlessly. Should there be 16, you would have the authority to revise to 2 minutes a person, or up to to keep it at 45 minutes of your meeting. And really, the intent of this is so that you can also deliver on the business of the meeting in any given night.

[152:00] And this is in aligned with City Council policies for, public comment. Any comments or questions on that topic? And does that match the other… Charter-required boards and commissions as well? the… This is one where it's still mixed with the boards and commissions, so I don't know if, I guess, Jenny and Bernie would be the only ones that would remember. About a year and a half ago, there was a boards and commissions project that the clerk's office is leading to make things more consistent across the boards. The 45-minute timeline is more inconsistent across the boards. Okay. What, what? Two other boards do. Can I look to you, Clarissa? They don't have a limit. Some of them are virtual only. And they all have either 2 or 3 minutes as the individual limit, but no overall time limit. Okay. I have a question. Yes? Or just a…

[153:00] I'm a little concerned that if we limit public participation, doesn't seem to be… I hate to be pounding this horse, and I may not be in compliance with the city charter. If you look at, you know, 2-3-1, You know, where boards are supposed to provide a means for public participation, And provide an opportunity for public comment at the meeting, and specifically, I'm looking at paragraph 5 and paragraph 7. I just don't, if other boards aren't, you know, are not limiting public participation. I understand in the past, maybe at the reservoir, there have been some extraordinarily long meetings. But… Just my experience in the last year, we've been able to deal with it pretty readily. And so… without, a dire need to limit public participation. I think it's been working so far okay. And maybe… Instead of just cutting it off after X number of minutes,

[154:02] The way to streamline it a little bit better would just be, if it's over 15, to limit Limit to 2 minutes per person, as opposed to 3 minutes. And I just… just want to raise that as a potential concern. Maybe I was confused. There's two parts to what's being proposed, but first, I do want to call out, and I wasn't quick enough to pull out the specific part in the charter, there's also charter language that allows the PRAB to set rules to facilitate the conduct of its meetings, so there's a both-and there. It's not a prohibited, you are allowed, and that's why the handbook always has had guidelines around public comment, and we did consult the city attorney's office on this. Happy to follow up with them to confirm. I appreciate that concern. The other thing I'll call out is if there's a public hearing on an item. for which you're taking formal option, action. Public comment cannot… is not limited in that situation. So when you're taking formal action to approve the CIP, to approve.

[155:03] perm parks, or if there were ever to be a park disposal. Public hearings do not have limited. So the proposal is that it's 45 minutes of the meeting, which would be 15 speakers at 3 minutes apiece, or if you had up to, is it 22? At 2 minutes apiece. So, with Mike's comment, this is something that, Do we need to vote, or do we just decide? Are we making the decision Are we just updating it? Because I'm, I mean… We're talking about a revision to your handbook, which is where you have outlined the natures by which you conduct business. And so, it's not a roll call vote, it's a discussion, and then you all determine how you'd like to act. We would update the handbook, and you would finalize it. Okay, so with that in mind. Mike has made his thoughts clear that he thinks that we should be able to have as many people as would like to participate, participate. Does anybody else have a strong…

[156:04] Response to that, or a comment, or anything? Can we all agree that if it's over 15 people, that we would reduce the time to 2 minutes? And allow unlimited time. So if we had… Will you just take. the two issues separately, right? One is cutting it off at 45 minutes, and the other is if there's over 15 people, reducing the time to 2 minutes. That'd still only give us 22 speakers, so we'd still be limiting the people. I… I guess it just… we can think about it as two separate issues. I mean, we could make the time unlimited and reduce the time to 2 minutes, which… and see if we ever end up going over 45 minutes. Like, we could start there. If it's over 15 people, reduce it to 2 minutes each. And then see if we end up having any meetings where the total time is over 45 minutes. That's perfectly complicated.

[157:00] basically are also. Can you put the microphone just for… If part of this is also getting rid of signups, then we won't necessarily know if we have 15, or 16, or 30. people. Are we making any changes to signups? That was part of it, yeah, it's like, what wasn't part of this? Getting rid of early sign-up? It's clarifying that it's preferred, and like Clarissa facilitated tonight, if there's anyone here that would also like to comment, they would have the opportunity. Ali, can you give us examples of times where there's been more than 45 minutes of public comment? Because I, like Michael said, I don't remember that happening. I'd have to… I'd have to go back and… I think… I think Mike's assessment is… is accurate in that it's pretty rare. I think that if there's more than 15 speakers going to 2 minutes is probably something that might come up more frequently. I'd have to go back through the records.

[158:01] Because even in some of the harder… you mentioned there was some controversy around the restaurant license at the reservoir in 2021. The long public comment was actually at the liquor license hearing, not here at Prabh. I think Elliot told me something about his experience at the wrecks, or the reservoir, so… But that was public… public hearing, so it would have just been what it was. Yeah. I struggle a little bit with 2 minutes, if… because if we decide that, like, moment of, and people come with 3 minutes prepared. That's, you know, that'll be very difficult for… I mean, accessibility, people… some people need to read, and you might make people a little… if you're just decreasing to high… I don't know. I don't know, is this… I mean, I feel like this requires maybe a little bit more thought. Since everybody has a little bit of a different opinion on it. I mean, I'm in favor of just following what City Council does, and so I… I like the suggestion that's on the table.

[159:02] Because I don't think that it will… I think it'll rarely become an issue, yet it does give us… but as a board, if we have an oper… like, if we have 17 or 18 speakers, we can say. That's okay. It's okay to go over 45 minutes? You currently have… You currently do not have a restriction on… If we were to adopt what we're talking about tonight and change the handbook to, say, 45 minutes, if we end up having 18 people, we can just… we can say, okay, we have 18 people tonight, so we've decided to go over the 45 minute. you could. We might provide advice that that's where things get complicated for the member of the community when things aren't predictable. Yeah. Okay. We could get you… what I heard you say is a concern is what, you know, if people have planned on 3 minutes, we saw a lot of folks who had really thoughtful 3-minute prepared speeches. City Council frequently has to reduce to 2 minutes. I… I'm not… I guess we could get some… we could ask for some input from the clerk's office on how people respond to that.

[160:06] City Council's usually always 2 minutes, aren't they? I believe they're always 2 minutes. I don't… I don't think so. I think we've had some… they've been averaging about 15 people for a couple of the last few meetings. And so it's 2 minutes because… It's been 3 minutes per person. So the 3 minutes per person up to 15 people is modeled after what City Council currently does. If they get more than 15 people interested, they will reduce it to 2 minutes, I believe. Clarissa, am I… is this accurate? Yeah. Correct. Okay. Do you have any input, Clarissa, on how people responded to getting cut from 3 minutes to 2 minutes? Oh. I haven't actually experienced the 3-minute to 2-minute cut, but if you're asking for my personal opinion, I do like an overall limit. I think that would help, Structure your meetings going forward, so then it doesn't…

[161:03] Last over an hour and take up the majority of your meeting. I mean, I think every council meeting I've ever watched has been 2 minutes for City Council, because they're always at 15, and then public hearing's 3 minutes. I think that's what I've seen. I don't remember public comment being 3 minutes, but I could be wrong. Clarissa just had these all up. Is City Council currently… I don't know if you know it off the top of your head, I believe it's 3 minutes, always. for public comment. Let me… City Council is how we're proposing this. It's exactly the same, so it's 3 minutes, but then they can limit it to 2 minutes if there's over 15 individuals who sign up, so that's our exact proposition for this board. Okay. Yeah, I think they just always have… max limits of people. Okay. Well, we have to make a decision on this then, based on discussion. If we don't have to motion.

[162:02] For this. I… my opinion would be I would like to model it after City Council. Does anybody have a… strong… I mean, we… Mike made his thoughts clear. Anybody else wanna… Weigh in on it. Yes, please. I'm gonna read from the… I'm going to read from the current webpage. Open comment is an opportunity for up to 20 individuals to speak for up to 2 minutes each on any topic that is not scheduled for a public hearing later in the meeting. The Council will do its best to allow all 20 speakers their time. The session is limited to 45 minutes. I feel a little bit conflicted, because I think on the one hand, I don't think we should be in a position of, telling the members of our community they can't speak to us. At the same time, like, we do have business to attend to, and… Yeah, it would be… it would potentially be problematic if we were in a situation where we had 4 hours of public comment, and we didn't get to our business until 10 PM.

[163:05] How likely is that? Probably not very. I didn't mean to complicate matters, and so I can live with whatever you want to do. I just want to raise it as a kind of a concern for me. It felt a little bit uncomfortable about Not giving the public the opportunity to address this, but I… I've been up since 3 today, so I totally understand long meetings. Yeah. So, but… you know, I'll go with the majority, so… I mean, in my opinion, I think we should adjust the handbook to Madge City Council. And if we find that that becomes an issue, we can address it again. Good. Food with me, too. Okay. Okay, thank you for that, everybody. Prab Matters. And I will tell you what that means, because I do every time. This portion of the meeting is for members of the board to report on Prabh's annual work plan goal of each member attending two or more Parks and Recreation-related community activities per month.

[164:11] Promoting parks and recreation through social media, attending site tours, and supporting the department's partnership initiatives. What items would board members like to report on at this time? I will open it to the board. I will briefly, I will go ahead and speak on behalf of Play Boulder. We did set a date for the golf outing for September 11th of this year, so we would love anybody's participation who would like to come. We are gonna make some changes to… to that… to the outing, but, only for the better, so it should be really fun, again. And… In general, they're… they're doing great. We had our annual review of the staff last, week, and they're doing a great job. I didn't know that the budget for,

[165:05] That, for play, just a few years ago, was about $150,000, and now, the budget there is a million dollars, so they're doing a very good job of growing and increasing and helping the community in a lot of different ways, from a tree canopy and forestry perspective, as well as the play pass. And, their staff is doing great, and play's going well. Again, once we have our two new members, I would like to present this as an opportunity for another member of the board to join as well. I think a fresh set of eyes would be great. And, And it is just… it's really fun work, and they do a lot of good work in the community. So, that's my, Monthly report on plague. Does anybody else have any particulars that they'd like to discuss? Well, I will say it's very exciting. I don't personally golf, but if there's other events that are maybe non-golf related, I'd love to just, like, attend and be involved. It's really exciting.

[166:04] So, I know Bike to Work date is not… or day is not a Parks and Rec activity, but it is a citywide one, and it was really exciting to see in the winter, it was actually pretty cold, even though it's, like, been unseasonably warm. So many people showed up, brought their bikes, there was, like, the area near, like, the… like, the Chambers area, where there was, like, a lot of people congregating, and had a chance to talk with some staff employees about my e-bike. Luckily, we're… I'm still good with my e-bike on, the bike paths, but it was really interesting to just understand how that conversation is shifting. And then just one thing I took away from that, which, you know, I always do, is, it's just so great to have all these moments where the public can interact and ask questions, like, directly to city staff and hear a little bit more about how rules are changing and ask questions. And they also told me, oh, you know, you can scan this QR code if you want to get updated with any of those projects. So again, like, great work for, like, transparency across all of those, different topics. Again, I think it's probably another opportunity to just say, like.

[167:17] yes, please sign up for these project updates. There's also these other newsletters across Boulder that you can sign up for, so maybe just, like, another opportunity to just get the world… word out and get, more email subscribers, so that… everyone can stay in touch. But yeah, it's a great event. Thank you very much, that's exciting. Anything else? Okay, then before we adjourn, I just wanted to say thank you to everybody for the conversation tonight. I know these are super complicated and heavy topics, and I just appreciate everybody staying positive and… working together, I think that that's going to be really important moving forward to make sure that we do what's best for the community, so thank you to the board and thank you to the staff for providing all the proper commentary and comments and answering questions and asking the important questions as well. So, with that, I will adjourn the meeting for today. Our next meeting is March 23rd.

[168:16] Thank you. Mr. Nick.