June 23, 2025 — Parks and Recreation Advisory Board Regular Meeting

Transcript

Captions from City of Boulder YouTube recording.

[0:02] Sorry, delayed. All right. Welcome to June's grad meeting. We'll start with the approval of the agenda. Would anyone like to make a motion to approve the agenda? And was there? Is there a second? Sure? Okay, thank you. Any discussion before we approve the agenda or comments? All right, great. And the agenda is approved. Next, we have future board items and tours. This item will be presented by our director of Parks and Recreation, who tonight filling in for is Scott, and he will highlight upcoming board activities. And as a reminder, this is also where members of the crowd can suggest items to be considered for scheduling at the next agenda setting. Thank you, madam. Chair. Ali is out of town and had asked me to fill in tonight, so I will do my best to share as much information with you as I can. We obviously have a full agenda for tonight, and then next month we're going to continue our conversation about the budget. That's probably going to be our biggest talking point tonight is what's happening

[1:19] not only within our department but across the city. And so Jackson and Stacey are here to share more information tonight. They will also be back in July to give you one more look at the budget as well as the Cip and Mark Davidson will be sharing information tonight and next month as well. Our hope is next month. We're also going to cover Primo's park and schematic design as well as the future of Rec Center needs assessments, and I'm sure we'll have more information coming up about the long term financial strategy for the city. If you're not aware, city Council will be meeting this Thursday night to talk about preliminary polling results and kind of next steps as to what they hope to do this coming fall.

[2:05] Then, in August we're going to be doing our annual tour. We always do that in August, and this year we're planning on North Boulder Park, Tom Watson, and then also tour of the civic area. Mark and his team will be sharing information and presenting along the way, so the great opportunity to see the sites and check things out a little bit later on in September we'll have some information for you as we wrap up our summer programming and keep up to speed on how the summer went. Unfortunately, we are fully staffed and rolling right now, which is really exciting a lot of good things happening. And then for that meeting we'll talk a little bit more about the East Bowler Community Center and some of those schematic designs as well in September. So I think that's it. For right now, yeah, all right, wonderful. Thank you. Next up we have public participation. This portion of the meeting is for members of the public to communicate ideas or concerns to the Board regarding parts and issues for which a public hearing is not scheduled for later in this meeting tonight we have one person online for public participation. Is that right? Yes.

[3:14] During the public participation time the public is encouraged to comment on the need for parks and recreation programs and facilities as they perceive them. All speakers are limited to 3 min, depending on the nature of your matter. You may or may not receive a response from the Board after you deliver your comments. The Board is always listening and appreciative of community feedback. Marissa, will you please present the additional guidelines, and then you can call on our 1st speaker. Yes, so we will do the short version. You can see the long version in the slides, so all remarks and testimony shall be limited to matters related to city business. No participant shall make threats or use other forms of intimidation against any person. Obscenity, racial epithets, and other speech and behavior that disrupts or otherwise impedes the ability to conduct the meeting are prohibited.

[4:05] participants are required to sign up, to speak in advance and use the name they are commonly known by individuals, must display their whole name before being allowed to speak online. Currently, only audio testimony is permitted online. And as a reminder, you will have 3 min. Just a moment, Lynn, let me get you set up here.

[5:07] I was just wondering why you're the only board, the only board that requires someone to sign up ahead of time. I mean, there's like 30 boards. What makes you so special? I do not get it, you know. And do you have people overcrowding you like? There's 1 person today like, is that inviting to the public? No, it's not. It's like so obvious like, why do you do that? What possible reason could you have for doing that? I asked. I wasn't answered. Great. Anyway. I'm fed up with all the impact of the homeless in, you know. All my park areas like the creek is just disgusting with litter and garbage, and who knows what and you know what you need to do is go on strike, because guess what you can't do your job of providing services to the public for

[6:07] recreation, because the planning board largely is the one who is undermining your every effort with subsidies for every single development. You blink, and you will not believe what you're going to see coming up in Boulder. And it's high end. a lot of high end for every high-end place that they propose. There's, you know, 20 affordable housing needs created for that one thing, and then there's more homeless. And then there's less appreciation of the public for the spaces that were supposed to be have desirable in Boulder. You know all these public spaces and the South Boulder Rec Center. Oh, no money for it. Well, I wonder why?

[7:00] And we're deficit like 10 million dollars. Now, there's a hiring freeze, and we're supposed to take care of this population of 40,000 more people in this area. More than that, probably with the planning reserve, with South Boulder cu campus, with, you know, National Geographic, the little town that they built there on Iris and 30th east of 30, th with, you know. weather. Vane, with all of these developments coming up every instant more and more and more people to accommodate for our public park spaces. What are you going to do to this? You're waiting to talk about the budget. The budget is here and now the cip is here. And now what are you doing about it? You're sitting there on your desks, reacting to planning board, giving away subsidies like there's no tomorrow. Height limits expansions in every direction. Just stop and tell them you can't do their job.

[8:08] You can't do your job with them doing their job the way they're. That's been 3 min. Thank you for sharing Lynn. Alright. Is there anybody else on? Why, no. all right, thank you for Lynn, for your comments, since there are no other community members who would like to speak tonight, I'll now close public comments. Would any of the Board members or staff like to respond or have any comments. 4, th of the 1st stuff. Yeah, I'm happy to share that. We have reached out the city clerk's office regarding the process and the requirement of signing up for public comments before meetings. I know we do take folks in person and allow them to sign up at that time.

[9:00] and so we will ensure that our process aligns with other boards. Can you stop organization? So I will look at that as far as comments regarding homeless, we do have a wonderful working relationship with our Sam's team and Canada. Sure our our park spaces are are active and available and safe for friends and family and gatherings. And so we're gonna continue to work towards that. But. I don't have a direct answer or solution at this point. Thank you. Okay, great. Thank you very much. Moving on to the consent agenda. Would someone like to make a motion to approve the minutes from 5, 19. Hello! Would anybody like to second to the motion?

[10:01] Alright? Are there any questions, any discussion on the consent, agenda? I would like to just briefly talk through. I have 2 questions. Pearl Street renovation is on the list under the planning with a start. Date of 2026, 3. Don't recall seeing any plans on that. so that the project is currently under scoping, so it hasn't be done yet. So we just get like we call it a chart every 15 min. Employees can make the decision. Okay, so it's the project, like the whole thing will kick off.

[11:05] And another thing I wanted to mention. Was the civic area pop up explicit in the consent agenda we have. we? Rob and I were there, and it was so lovely. It was a really nice pop-up, and I wanted to mention if Scott, if you could talk something about how you worked with forestry to kind of create a cost savings. I thought that was kind of fascinating. Did anybody have a chance to visit the Pop-up cemetery? So I was able to? I was there for the farmers market, so I had a great view. Sitting with my friends, and everyone had a comment on it, too, which is kind of cool to see and a lot of my friends before I even got there they had dragged the sign. So they actually were aware about how you know. pop up so I I think it was cool to just see how you know there was like so much engagement. I mean, this isn't not even doing. This is just, you know, Saturday farmers, market tons of engagement, tons of kids playing on it. And I also saw, just like adults sitting on the log machine, too. So

[12:11] it was. It was just kind of cool to see this different. and I don't want to steal Mark's time there. So Mark and his team not only collaborated with our forestry team, but also with Cu and and the students at Cu, which is really cool. So Mark, why don't you share a little bit more. I appreciate it's a good project. There's another we? Then this is actually our second project in this nature press you. It's be honest. So we're partnering with our forest people with them if it goes in and looks or something. So we spoke to them about specifying potential trees.

[13:00] And so we- we. And then, as we advance the projects forward, amazing as construction. So we had a couple of consultants tell us, for instance, question extremely, translate across the board. We think we're improving the way kids can play and other kids can have. So it's only actually not great. Thank you so much. It was, it was really special.

[14:04] Even my 15 year old is like, that's cool. I want to say polling. But you know, how did that come out? We're still processing the engagement results. in fact, got 2 fabulous incidents working today services. And so so what do you think about that? Hold that that's listed in here as there's a date and a place for that. Right? Yeah. can we get so July 14, th from 5, 30 to 7, 30 pm. You're all invited. There's the the concert, which will be Jeff and Paige again, singing and engaging with with kids. But there'll be an excellent opportunity to just provide feedback. And and just it's another open house. So

[15:13] probably should have mentioned that in the future board items and events. But yeah, they'll be coming up on the 14th of July. So all right, any other comments on the consent agenda, I had a question about the Budget realignment from South Boulder Rec Center. So I understand it came from. Or according to this, came from the Pleasant View access project. So is that project gonna be continued, it's sure so. We often have to shuffle money around a little bit, Jackson. I don't know if you can. A little bit more detail. we're still figuring it out to be sort of transparent. This was something that came up with a conversation with facilities. Our software team and city manager's office. The desire was, they have a contractors ready to go this summer that will

[16:09] so, by shifting money from Pleasant View, which was a project that the team did not have capacity to address this year, we're able to really shift the money to the highest and best use. The ask is that we request that money again in the future when we have the staff capacity and ability to manage that project. Is there a time period for that? Because think I think we're gonna have to continue to look at all of our projects, and we'll talk about that more tonight as we align. Kind of cip the other thing I'll say about Pleasant View is and we have had, you know, several complaints about parking, or lack of parking and access and whatnot, and so unfortunately that that Project Budget was so underfunded that it wasn't. When we do projects, we want to do them the right way, and we felt like this was until we had enough resources to to do Pleasant View holistically in the right way. It made more sense to to utilize these dollars right now, to keep this up.

[17:12] Thanks. Thanks. All right. Is the based on the discussion is the motion, and the second still stand all those approved anybody points? Okay, consent. Agenda is approved action items. We have no action items tonight. so we will move on then to matters for discussion. So I'll introduce this and then I'll be handing it over to Jackson to take over and share his presentation. And what I will say. It's been an interesting couple of weeks. You all received an email from me, Ali went on vacation, and shortly thereafter the city decided to

[18:05] to implement a hiring freeze, and then also ask every department to save money throughout the rest of this year. What we have been told and when referred to in her comments is that the city is looking at about a 10 million dollar shortfall this year and operating dollars. And so all departments are kind of sharpening the pencil and keeping things a little bit tighter, which I think is fine, and then we're also going to look into that for next year and figure out what makes the most sense. I will say, we have an incredible business services team Stacy and Jackson just do a phenomenal job and and making things work. And they've already done the 1st share of what's happening with the budget process. Ali will be back in the office later this week, and then we will be submitting a list of potential reductions in budget for this year as well as next year. That could be considered by city council, and Jackson will talk a little bit more about this, but I will preferences his presentation by saying.

[19:08] we are not the sole decision makers in this we, you know, we want to be as transparent through the process. Allie needs to come in, but ultimately the city manager's office will make the decision as to what program services and where those reductions occur based on the impact. So, I've already had questions like, Are you going to be shutting down the South Pole Direct Center? Or you know. those kind of decisions are huge impact to the community. And and I think that's something that the city managers also look at and not that particular item in person. We're not going to propose that one, but we've got a whole list. Jackson will share some of that tonight. and we'll vet it later this week, and and kind of go from there, but you'll also be getting the update in July, so we'll answer what we can this evening. And Jackson, I'll turn it over to you. Thank you. Scott. Jackson Height business services manager. As Scott mentions. This was quite the pivot

[20:05] we had a memo that Allie had reviewed before she left that talked about enhancements and totally different direction. And 5 business days ago we got some different things. So thank you for your understanding. I think that we are trying to be as transparent with you as possible and share what we know. There's a lot of work that's still going on behind the scenes that we will highlight with you next month. This is really just the brainstorming session that we've had with our senior managers at this point, and I wish there was more information we had at your fingertips published. But we've been scrambling so just as a reminder, perhaps focus within the charter is to provide input on the budget process. Typically, that's for the future year. Just because we are talking about 25 service level reductions, we will be talking about that as well. Next month we will be coming back to you, asking for the recommendation of the operating budget, and then we will need your approval of any appropriations out of the Permanent Recreation fund that's called out direct in the Charter. We have historically done that that is only for the current year. But you're approving the cip budget in total

[21:12] over the course of the success as a reminder. The operating budget is what pays for salaries and expenses on a regular basis. The capital budget is anything that has a useful life of over 5 years and $50,000. So that's really how we differentiate them tonight. We're just going to go over the budget timeline. What we thought we were doing when we 1st started talking to you an update on the 25 budget situation. We'll talk about a few policy and membership truck structure changes that are being proposed, and then we'll get into our so you've seen this timeline before. The blue slides on top represent the different milestones. The top half of the page is really what the crowds engagement is, whereas the bottom half is what we are working on as staff internally with not just our department, but the finance department, the city manager's office. There's an executive budget team, and then ultimately everything that gets packaged up goes to pending board for the Cap Review and then City Council for

[22:11] approval and adoption of the budget. I think you're familiar with the timeline. I'm not going to go into too much in depth, but our intention next month is to come back and ask for your approval on the budget. I know this is very difficult. We expected to have draft numbers to share with you tonight, but just given the news that we've got in the last 5 days. We do not have any draft numbers to share with you. I think that we have a general baseline as far as what our 2025 budget is, and what a 5% reduction is that we will look at that as kind of a baseline target that are expected. So this is our typical budget process. We're in year 4 of budgeting for equity and resilience where we kind of start with last year for the 25 approved budget. We do some realignments. We do some enhancements this year. We should really update that to do, proposed reductions just to meet the city's goals.

[23:08] Ultimately, what we're looking at tonight is the capital investment program. And what would have been the department budget. Obviously, we don't have that in front of you tonight. So some grace and understanding as we navigate this is appreciated. I think that Scott had forwarded you the press release from the city. And you also did get information in the packet. But ultimately this is coming down to the slowdown of different revenue sources, sales, tax accounts for over 50% of the city's general fund revenue. We do have a dedicated point 2 5 cent sales tax fund that supports park operations as well as our other programming. And then property tax. There has been some legislative changes, and then, after years of double digit growth, there is a no growth to slight decline as well as some legislative changes that impacts the amount that cities receive

[24:01] just as a reminder over 50% of all property tax bills go to supporting county operations as well as the school district. So the amount the city receives is actually very small out of the property tax? Would you have a 5 to 10 million dollar shortfall expected across the organization? And then you all are aware that we do have increased cost, escalation, and just pressures on all of the expenses that not just the departments making, but the city as a whole. So with that we have provided some numbers as far as what this means for revenue projections in the sales tax. There's kind of a big decline expected in 25 and 26. That situation improves after what's being dubbed a mini recession in 27. Ultimately, this is about a 1.2 million dollar decline in the sales tax, we would expect to the point 2 5 cent sales tax on the property tax side. This is where the bigger decline is seen. You can see, we're expecting a loss of almost half a million dollars a year, or almost 2.5 million dollars total.

[25:10] This is about an 8% decline from the forecast that we last shared with you. So obviously a big point. And what I do want to call out is the 5% reduction is really identified as a moving target. Because we have so many different dedicated funds across the city. There's certain expenses that are allowed in certain areas. When we see an 8% decrease in the firm Perks fund. We may need to increase our expenses in that fund more but we have the flexibility to shift cip across funds. There's the ability to look at. The city has 41 different funds with how everything's structured and what's paying for what it's so legally permissible. This slide is really a repeat. The Federal uncertainty changes every day. This impacts us directly and indirectly. Tariffs are a big concern, especially in our fleet purchases as well as all of our capital projects. Mark will tell you that we have contractors there to give us a cost estimate anymore, just because the prices are changing so drastically

[26:13] the long term financial strategy. As Scott mentioned on Thursday night at city Council, they will be sharing some preliminary results on the poll for different ballot measures. The 3 ballot measures that were pulled were the extension of the community culture, resilience and safety tax. With no sunset continuing that through 2050 and then changing the permanent Parks and recreation fund to the public loan tax so definitely a lot of interest, I would encourage you to listen in the pollster who ran this poll will be on the call as well as several council members who have already heard I'm not going to get more into the long term financial strategy. I think you've all heard about it. This is an opportunity for the city to look at revenues. Look at the dedicated funds and increase some flexibility with how things can be used across the entire organization, not just tied to one department or one fund.

[27:12] something else that has changed since we came to you last month is our cost. Allocation costs have increased substantially. cost allocation is what we pay to support other Internal Service departments. This is our it services. So our network and security team, our city attorney's office that provides a legal counsel, our finance department that's helping with budget projections, accounting payroll. And then all of our Hr functions. These are important functions that the city has to pay this and cost allocation, basically that up to different departments and different funds for their proportional share, that they are relying on those services. I will say that these increases are significantly higher than we expected. But looking into the methodology and calculation, there really isn't much we can bring you back against here. They are services that we are receiving, and we are very grateful to be part of the city organization as a whole.

[28:09] When did the change happen? That's a complex question. I think on about the 5th of the month is when we got the updated numbers. there's a lot more history to it. We've gone through different vendors. This vendor consultant was selected in 23. They did the 24, and 25 cost allocation. This is the 1st time that it's been done in house with staff, but the methodology is the exact same. How many employees did you hire? How many items went to city council? How many boards. Are we supporting? there's about 200 different items. I'm not gonna go into detail. We went through line by line. We don't want more money over 40%. It was 40% increase in the point 2 5, and probably no, I'm sorry. It was 41%, one from 46% of the other. I don't have it on, so

[29:10] I'm sorry and just to be transparent. We are not the only department dealing with this open space amount, for saw their cost allocation increased by about 50%. This was shared with their board last week. Transportation costs have increased as well. So I think there's definitely some concern on the soft side that it is increasing as we are looking for budget reductions. That we did look at very closely. I will just pause here. I've come over a lot of information already other than any other questions at this point. And then anybody else. Okay, so the right hand table really indicates the highlights from the press release that went out last 2 Fridays ago. What we were tasked with as a department is to identify

[30:04] 5% reduction in 2025 approved budgets. One of the community impact which I think is incredibly important. We want to continue to provide good services. I think the message we've received from executive budget team is they don't want us to just take 5% out of each work group's budget and call it, they would rather see targeted approach where it's 10% in one area and 0% in another. And that way we are continuing to serve the community for the highest and best use of the dollars. We do have the department plan that was approved in 2022. It is statistically valid. That is really what drives most of our decision making later on that we determine our factor of equity who's impacted. And we'll be considering that as we move forward. Jackson, I think you may want to also mention. You know, we. one of the things that we're looking at is costs that are ongoing expenses versus just the one time cost. it's you know. It'd be easy to save, or easier to save some money if we just

[31:05] that we're not going to do posture, or we're not going to do for a project. But I don't think that provides a permanent solution, and we don't want to. Just so we want to be very, very intentional about what we're looking at and and we also have a lot of our programs that have to generate that. And so our department is much more complex than the majority of other departments, because we are so dependent on creating creating the dollars. So, for example, you take a program like gymnastics, and while it may not be essential to community, it actually makes money and helps supplement our other programs and services. So this is where it gets a little bit more complex and parts of that than maybe some other departments. so is increase- increasing revenue. Does that count towards the 5% budget reduction. I think the hard part is, we're very focused on 2025 reductions. We are halfway through our season we have earned a

[32:06] a lot of revenue compared to last year. Just for comparison. The graph is. our revenue is up over $700,000. Compared to this point last year. So we are doing phenomenal on the business side of things. I think beautiful. The difficult part the city's trying to manage is, how do you treat every department equitably, but recognize that different departments have different operating structures, different resources, different expenses that they can change or can't change. Looking around the room, we went through Covid together, and the reduction were far more substantial. But I think we have a lot of lessons learned as far as what doesn't go well, you don't very often know the right person. Expect to have my friends back the next summer. but we are trying to be very thoughtful and strategic. How do you think the revenues are so much this year?

[33:04] Participation? Gymnastics is going up. other people are taking our programs. Let's see. And I think we have also been very strategic, and everything that we have brought back we are making sure is meeting class sizes has a solid business plan in place. Any position that we brought back after pandemic layoffs. We did need to basically have cost recovery plus that there's been a strong emphasis on clear business plans for the gymnastics program, the golf course. Just to. Maybe it's an easy ones. all right. So I will caveat this. This is the blanket. 5% reduction. If we're looking at it across funds and across the department. As I mentioned, our property tax could be increasing 8%. But we may need to find additional decreases there. But there is some flexibility in how we structure our capital expenses as well as our operating expenses that ultimately we are looking at a 2.2 million dollars number to come up with.

[34:13] I want to. I'm sorry. Go ahead. and this may be a stupid question. But why are the property tax revenues down 8%? Because we just everyone's paying more property taxes. That's a great question. Last year in the legislative cycle there was a bill introduced to the State that basically shifted some of the local property taxes back to the State to reduce property taxes in out years. So you will see that reduction in 2026. The other thing is, our previous forecast had assumed 5 to 8% growth in property values over the next 6 years.

[35:00] What they found is the reassessment between 23 and 25 was flat at 0%. But they are taking a much more conservative approach that I want to say, between 2012 and 2025, there's something like a 12% increase every reassessment cycle which is every 2 years. And obviously that's not very sustainably realistic. And see because the reassessment is done on the value of the property on June 30th of the current year. Okay, yes. Didn't interrupt all good. So 2.2 million is basically what we're looking at for a reduction across the department. As Scott mentioned, the more we can find an ongoing funding as opposed to just saying, we're not doing a cip project is beneficial because of the impacts that we have on both the revenue side and expense side and the others

[36:03] the numbers that we came up with introductions during pandemic. I believe we're closer to 5 to 6 million. So I don't want to say this sounds easy, but finding 2 million dollars in production is very palatable, and something that I think we can do. So this is really kind of how we've categorized what we're doing to evaluate where the reductions will come from. Personnel is one of our biggest category. About 40% of our operating budget goes to paying for staffing. There was a city manager initiated, hiring freeze for all positions across the organization. We're still updating accurate numbers because we did have a few job offers in progress as well as a few planned retirements or vacancies, but as of this morning we had 140 positions filled. We do have about 170 positions that equate to 153 ftd, we have a lot of staff just because that works for business, 0 point 5 fte, just means that they work 20 HA week point 7 5 means they work 30 HA week. So when the hiring freeze came out, we had about 20 vacancies across the department. We will provide you updated numbers next month, and exactly what those positions are.

[37:25] It is everything from a 10 HA week. Lifeguard, professional lifeguard aquatic facility leader will use their professional title to Mark's team has a vacancy or 2 on it. That you'll hear more about. So those are really the types of positions that were impacted across the organization. and they also put an immediate freeze on our non standard employees. So our seasonal, very temporary staff that provide a lot of our programming and frontline customer service delivery. We are at 540 employees in that category. We typically cap out at about 550. So this was actually optimal timing. But we had a very successful summer recruitment campaign.

[38:08] Our goal now is, how do you retain those employees and make sure that they stay with us? So that is something that you'll hear about those moving forward. And then with that we are looking at how we're staffing. If the outdoor pools are closed, we aren't going to have 20 like 3rd sitting around on the deck. We are going to have the minimum number of people it takes to operate those facilities similar with camps. We are going to make sure that our staffing ratios are aligned. But we aren't staffing extra just in case something happens. I think that Scott and I and Alex you were here would continue to reiterate employees are the greatest asset of the organization. We really believe that. And we don't want there to be layoffs or impacts to employees. So we're hoping that this freeze really lets us right size and say wise, and see what's to come. No, I agree with you, and and I was really very happy to hear from

[39:11] our city manager that that we are all focus on voice and our retention, and taking care of the people that we have. And so citywide. I think that is going to continue to be the priority. My big concern is Megan and her team, for example, in aquatics. Every summer we have lifeguards that work a few weeks and decided to quit, or family vacations or whatnot, and that can be impactful for things like fuel hours. Megan and her team want to do the best they can to to ship things around. We also often have vacancies with some of our fitness instructors, or or different classes and and formats. And so we know we have some dance programs coming up this fall that people are registered for, and we don't have staff yet to fill up. So you may see some things that we need to cancel some classes just based on not having the ability to hire those positions. And they're really not necessarily essential positions, and when Alan is back we'll look at the full list. As as Jackson said. You know, this ranges from senior landscape architects all the way down to lifeguards.

[40:20] and everything in between. And so we're going to be very intentional about what makes sense to request from the city manager's office for an exemption for those critical positions. But that will be Ally's decision, based on on the impacts that we put together on what it is. And those impacts include the revenue. Certainly because our dance programs they don't. You know, we actually make money off of those, too. So it doesn't necessarily make sense to cancel that. But we're we're in alignment with the rest of the city on the hiring freeze and and we're still waiting for some answers on that. Generally the vacancies we have. If we have hold them for the remainder of this year, we're looking at 600 to 800,000 savings. So when we're trying to get to our goal of 2.2 million, that is almost a 3rd of the way there. But

[41:06] it definitely hurts, and we don't want other staff to pick up additional workload for those vacancies that there will be some service level impact to the community to maintain staff sanity and personal well-being. But we really are trying to minimize it. Does that matter the revenue at some of those positions? Green dress? That's also factoring in a reserve on them, just because we have to pay reserved on our operating budget very back at the napkin. Now we're still having some changes, so we'll provide you an update next month. So what is the process for asking for exemptions? So that's still to be determined? Maria met with. With all city employees in the Town Hall last week, and talked a little bit about that, and she said that you know those positions that are critical to ongoing operations of the city would be looked at on a case by case basis, very stringent.

[42:09] And that would be her and the city manager's office reviewing those the request. I believe there will be some type of a former document that will be coming to us that we can utilize and it's we're all requests would have to come directly from our to the city manager's office. But I don't think we've got any clarity on that quite yet. So on that same point. There's no process in place for this situation like we don't have a priority of employees. you know. It's very interesting. So during the pandemic. I think we learned a lot things like using the term essential right? What employees are essential versus, you know, critical to the organization. And what's ongoing, and I think I think there's a lot to be determined, and it is going to be case by case, and directors are going to be asked to really limit what they're requesting.

[43:07] So while it may make sense, I think there's there's a strong desire from the city manager's office for us to really look at changing our service levels, because since the pandemic, we have grown as an organization, both Bpr. But also the city as a whole, with quite a few fte. And so I think there's a desire to really limit that. I'm thinking of it more like police, you know, like, then that would be essential. Right? So you just, you're just trying not to create it hierarchy, basically. And look at it from a different perspective. I think so. Yeah, I think it's not a hierarchy, but maintaining what the critical services are that are necessary. Waste water treatment operator is going to be filled. You all want safe drinking water, and we all want safe drinking. Water, police and fire will likely be prioritized higher than they

[44:03] dance instructor and I hate to say that. But it's looking at the organization as a whole, and what the funding allows, what's needed? And I think you shared it with me last month that the organization as a whole has increased over a hundred 50 activities since. And I believe there's about 80 positions. We still are in increased service level compared to so 80 positions, 1,500 employees, 80 positions, including the 20 and we had a handful of positions that were in the interview process, where we were allowed to proceed to make job offers that. I'm incredibly grateful for it. I know some of our team members are grateful for it. Some of it is just musical chairs that we had a staff to another. We stole some employees from other departments that we'll probably lose some employees.

[45:02] those departments. Yeah. all right. So I've talked enough about personnel. Non personnel is the other big portion of our budget in terms of operating. This is what we use for material supplies, equipment we're going through and looking at what hasn't been spent year over year. And really, where can we do small decreases that don't impact service level significantly. This isn't going to amount to a lot of money in individual line item. But collectively, this will probably be in 6 years and hopefully get us towards that 2.2 million dollar goal. What we are doing is we are going through very methodically and looking at the last 2 years actuals. What was submitted for budget this year? Are people really spending the budget that was given to them? If there's vacancies on the team, what does that mean for their ability to spend on anything from uniforms to the vendor or contractor that is going to support XY, or Z study. So that's the other area we're looking at. And then with our cap we're really looking at the amount that we have in current workloading capacity.

[46:07] As well as budget that has continued to carry forward to. Now put more on the planning team's plate. Mark will be very humble about this, but he has a lot of vacancies on his team. That we really are trying to figure that out of aligning budgets, staff capacity, and how we can continue to deliver on the projects that have been shared and promised. So I think what you'll hear next month is, there are probably 3 or 4 projects where we will push them out of here or decrease the funding just because there isn't the staff capacity. We have a millions of dollars of projects that still need to be fully spent before we go. We've got a big month ahead of you guys. It's been a busy 5 days and we got some good practices.

[47:00] So I think we don't want to impact projects that are currently under contract. We've already entered into contracts with consultants. There's obligations we have as an organization to adhere to. We have shared with the community what's moving forward? Not that it would be the case on Pearl Street, Mall, because we don't have a consultant. There is that a project that we push out to workers that is very unlikely, just given the political nature of it, that is, the backbone of the community. Easy example. Alright! We got through 25 budget reductions. I don't have numbers for you. I have ballpark numbers for you, but we'll just pause real here. quick, and see what questions you have. since you guys have had this experience with Covid, is it possible to get the operating budget for the cip from Covid, moving forward just to see how it was handled. The reallocations

[48:02] we can share that with you. I think the hard part is, we've seen so much escalation in our revenue and our expenses. When Covid started we were at a 35 million dollar a year budget. We're at a 45 million dollar a year budget. Now. we can really identify where we have those reductions. I will be very candid and say the covid reductions were focused much more on services we could deliver safely to the community that people weren't coming into our centers to do one on one personal training. People really didn't feel comfortable using the pool. But most of our reductions of that time around the recreation operation side of things. And that's where we saw such a huge decline in our revenue as well. So we can definitely provide that for you next month. I just want to preface it that it's not. Yeah. Think also, when we talk about Cip and the cost of projects. You know, Mark, and probably talk about the escalation of how much more expensive things are today to to build construction 2019. And so, looking at at those numbers from 5 plus years.

[49:11] it's not even the numbers. It's the. It's what was cut and dry, and I know it was different like that deferred. So we had flatirons golf course coming online, right? That project was in the queue ready to go. Then Covid hit, pause. Obviously that project was done. But because it was so severe during Covid, you know little different situation like a just to put things on a positive level when it comes to budget. Is there a way for you to do? You have like a matrix that shows all of the projects in the sip since 2015 that we're completing like, is there something that can show like that? We can get super excited about like. I don't know. Does that make sense, Mark? It's the dessert tonight. You're going to hear all about Tom Watson. Well, Tom Watson, that's coming up now, but I mean stuff that like has been, I guess, the golf course, and you know the the reservoir building, like those are big ones. But even just smaller sip projects that have gone through process and be completed. I would love to consider.

[50:42] So it's not right. Let's see if there's not Rob, can I rephrase your question? Would it be beneficial to show you what services have been introduced or brought back since Covid, as opposed to what was cut during Covid. Yeah, I mean, for sure, that would be helpful. I'm just looking at more of a high level. And I understand that some of it is because just people couldn't be social.

[51:10] I guess maybe the the question can be more like, just would love to hear a little bit more about some of the learnings that came out of the pandemic that we can actually apply. I'm sure that's actually what's coming. But but if there's anything that you could share. Now. my biggest one, don't lay off 300 employees on the same day. And I think I speak very candidly for our entire team. Yeah. Think people are huge, and I wasn't here in Boulder at the time. But the organization I worked for like that same thing, and several 100 employees in one day, and that was that was pretty rough. I will say that when Covid hit everything paused very, very strategic as to what came back, and when it came back

[52:01] to what extent it came back. And so we do really focus on revenue generation and impact on the community. We have some programs like our Wanna sign expand program that are serving. You know. population, that is, maybe doesn't have other resources, which is that's huge for us. And then we have, you know, the gymnastics dance and and the right. Now we're working on our community access framework that you'll hear more about, which would include our park spaces and additional revenue generation. I think you asked the question earlier, why, so far up on revenue so far this year in the wrap? And I think there is a multitude of reasons. But I think it's because we are so strategic with where we are focusing our current resources. And then we're doing phenomenal work with our marketing, of of our programs and services and whatnot as well. And so I do think that we operate pretty darn lean. We also have our 2022 plan that guides the work and prioritizes work. We have our reputation, priority, index and and kind of

[53:07] our program plan that Megan has been working on the committee as well as that helps us to understand where we should be prioritizing, based on impact. It might be helpful, too, just based on the questions. I think tonight. since our time will be short, you know, we'll just kind of get the information July, and we'll have the information. If if there might just be a little extra explanation of why things decided, why they why they were cut, or or if they were cut during Covid. This is how the community help managed it, or, you know, like, just any relate relatable information that might be able to help us understand why the decisions. Okay, yeah, I think we can use common sense to extrapolate what's perfect, what's not? But like for me in particular, this is my 3rd meeting. So like it would be helpful for me to have that history?

[54:04] just so we can better shape our answers to you. Do you want just to Covid? Do you want back 10 years? I guess. What's think? Back 10 years. And I can. I can. Okay, we should be able to pull this up very easily. So. 5 is by the penny. Also understand how much work is now just given the recent decisions. So don't wanna make this into a bigger ask just at a very high level to understand. Okay, we want them to be informed decision for decision. So we will get you as much of that high level information. Any other questions here?

[55:01] Okay, I'm gonna turn it over to CC. Megan. At this point. They're gonna talk through key policy and membership structure going to kick off our free policy discussion tonight along with. So we shared this fee policy alignment with you last month. This is really just a refresher slide for you. We are basing all of our work on our fee, policy and schedule that was approved by the Fab in 2023, and put into effect for 2024. So it is really just updating that fee policy and schedule. And then looking at some areas that you'll get further updates, such as the golf course or community access. and then also our court system plan. Since that was finished in 2024, and that is going to help guide some recommendations. Again, just want to remind the crab that we are very committed to equitable access. And we really do look at our 2022 plan as our guide. We do have proper age based discounts. We have our financial aid

[56:16] assistance program, and we do support individuals with disabilities. So we will be keeping all that in mind as we do this work. And then this does fall into our 2026 budget development strategy which we talked about with you last month was the comprehensive fee policy was that in that was last year it went into effect 2024 into effect in July of 2023 to put into effect. January 2020. There's the fee policy which guides all of the fees, and then we publish anything scheduled every January. You saw that schedule last year

[57:04] this slide. We're not really going to go over. It was in your packet last month as well, but it just does remind you that we do categorize our program types and what that benefit level is. And then what our cost recovery targets are. And then just give some examples. So again, in the classroom as a reminder for this one. And then, really, as we look at our pricing strategy for free updates, I guess I'm just presented last month, but really wanted to call out the market comparison. So in your comprehensive market comparison, just to finish up the last month, just to make sure that we are constantly looking at our surrounding communities. both in public and private sector, to see where we are falling in, and then what they are offering. But it's something that we've really been getting into the habit of doing every 6 months. We were presented to the last one this past November, so we will do another one this fall. But that was in the package, and I know there's a lot of material there, so I can pause and see if there was any questions.

[58:23] That's it. I have a question about the chart that you have on the previous slide. and I. Maybe we're gonna talk about this later. But with the 5% reduction that we're having to make choices on where the customer less cost recovery, the 10% to 70%. 50%. Is that part of the analysis in terms of like targeting where the program services may not be. Yeah, I'm happy to talk about this a little bit. Yes, absolutely. You know, things like special events. Obviously, you'll see a 10% cost recovery, or maybe slightly higher for things like so much fun or holiday lights. The other part of that is, while there may not be a cost recovery associated with holiday lights.

[59:18] There's safety things, you know, that that they impact safety may impact sales, revenue and some other things. So we are looking at each one of our programs across the board. So everything that you see on here on the far right. we're taking a close look at. And we're identifying 1st the low hanging fruit that we could potentially eliminate, or things that we think may not be necessary. And then what are the ramifications? What are the impacts? If we, if we do cut that. And so. But certainly every one of these items we're going to take a close look at yeah. And in terms of you know, whatever the decisions are in the end, the messaging would be more around pausing potentially some of these. And while we're going through some of these harder times.

[60:06] I assume. Yes. Well, and what's really tricky about it is a lot of times when you're seeing that lower cost recovery number. Those are sometimes the the most mission aligned things for us, and so we don't want to just cut those things because it's an easy way to to save right like that's sometimes where we need to make really hard decisions to help smarter or better, so that we can meet our mission. Because that's what we're here to do 1st right? And so while it'd be really easy to say, like, let's just cut anything that's not at a hundred percent cost recovery. I I think then, we would be a private business and not. I think, the other side of it is, there's certain areas where we are operating at 100% cost recovery, or the stated goal is 100% cost recovery. But we may not be meeting minimum class sizes. It may be a program that's seen declining enrollment. Are we better off just doing a deep cut once to a program that's seen those declines and has minimal community benefit? It really benefits the individual.

[61:10] That that would be something we'd look at. Obviously it decreases our revenue. It also decreases our expenses that it is a careful consideration that we have a lot of tools in place to help with that right. And I guess the. And just in my mind when I was looking at these numbers just at a super high level, because I know these are really complicated, hard decisions that are having to be. Item, wise. I was thinking again. I was thinking more along the lines of, We're in an extraordinary circumstances, economically and just trying to figure out, how do we balance? Potentially causing some services program services that do not have the the greatest benefit to the whole community, or greater numbers of the community versus physical infrastructure hard assets that have to be maintained and have to continue, or hubs like the rec centers, to continue to keep those services up, and the deferred maintenance issues the long term expenses. If we don't invest or continue to invest in those facilities.

[62:10] It's balancing. I think that's kind of what was in my mind in terms of it's hard decisions. And we go. Our minds jumped right there with you. We heard about this 5 days ago and said, What can we do? And if you look at like the very 1st one open access. That's our parks, so can we reduce mowing in our parks and not mow as often right. But then you have the the balance of well, how does that impact? You know what potential wildfires? So we're we're looking at everything across the board. And it's it's tough. And so at this point it's kind of in the brainstorming phase, and then we'll hopefully be talking about that internally with our staff and Allie on Thursday and move forward list to the city manager's office to analyze, along with all the other items in the city. When you're doing that work.

[63:01] I know Kelly doesn't want to talk about this, but to be fair, I have not talked about it. Have you thought about? And I know a boulder general doesn't necessarily like it but low cost recovery. Do you have anybody that's going like Google's holiday lights, you know, and then there's not a cost recovery. It's sponsored, and it's paid for, and you know you don't have to worry about it like that. Or you know. you know Facebook's North Boulder Park. I don't know. But you know what I mean. Like stuff like that like is that being discussed as an option absolutely. And so, prior to our our budget reduction this last week, we actually had a request that we were planning on submitting for a marketing position, that about 20 HA week would be dedicated towards sponsorships. We certainly look at that. We work with Brian directly, with our play foundation for philanthropic opportunities.

[64:01] I think we need to continue to to look at that and figure out the best way to leverage that and generate more money. And I think naming rights. And there's definitely some possibilities there. Some communities have done really well with that. We haven't had Staff dedicated to going out and doing that. But I think that's certainly something we want to look at in the future. It would also be great to think, and I'm sure this is already happening with you all but the whole Sundance Festival, and you know I I don't have a good sense of the vision there, like, what are we doing there in terms of naming rights for events and things related to parks and revenue opportunities there. because that's just a short ways away, and we just certainly don't want to scrimp on. That's see one great questions. I will just say we've already met with the Grants office. To pursue other external grants. I heard our volunteer services team talking about, how do we increase volunteer opportunities where we don't have the staff on board to do the same level of maintenance and the horticulture bed. So we're looking at all of this. Thank you for reiterating. We're on the right track.

[65:19] Are there certain programs that you have to coordinate with other departments that are interconnected, that you don't have a lot of leeway with. I think we interact with every single department in the city in one way or another. Part of this is being a little bit more bold of other efficiencies that we could have with another department. I'm not gonna state any of them out loud tonight, but that is part of the conversation of open space and parks, and Rec. Used to be one department. There was a separation years ago. Are there still functions that those departments are doing that one department could do more efficiently than 2 departments.

[66:00] We work with everything from utilities, finance it. City attorney's office. maybe one of my favorite ones, the internal services. all right back to Stacey. Yeah, no, these are great questions. Thank you, and say that we are looking at a refund so the pricing strategy for the updates. I was saying. You know we did do the market comparisons. We will take all of that data in consideration that we do look at very, very carefully and analyze, just to make sure that we are in line. On each of those slides within your packet you will see a summary on the top, you will find that a lot of the items that we analyze, such as golf courses and others. We really are still below the market. So there's a little bit of room to kind of look at those fees and reevaluate up. But those are all considerations that we do take in with that benchmarking

[67:06] as well. We also do want to, you know. Make sure that we have the subsidy to support the age-based discounts the community benefit preparation. And then the financial aid are all things in the forefront of our minds. Just to make sure that we do have very equitable access to our programs, too. as well as we look at a timeline for the work that we have been doing this year. We really launched the program back in January over. q. 1 and Q. 2, we've done a lot of research. And there's been some community engagement that Megan's team has done. But we've done a lot of data analysis. So we have done a lot of costing analysis. We took a look at our 2024 numbers. We wanted to know exactly where our revenue is coming from. How much have we generated from what buckets of revenue we're getting

[68:00] that funding coming in through our doors. We've also done, some in depth costing, just to make sure that we understand how much it is costing the department and expenses to offer those services. As well. We did put together in May more of an extended staff team. And we've conducted several meetings just to bring a voice from across our department right. We don't want to be making decisions in a silo, but just really to get collaboration within. Bpr. and then tonight we are bringing this to the crowd as an overview, and let you know where our direction will be going, for as we move into Q. 3, we will be working on some things with timeline to be determined. We'll be finalizing our membership structure and bringing it back to you in Q, 3, updating our policy for 2026 and developing a communication plan, just things that we have in the works wrapping up all of our work within q. 4. So that we can hit that Q, 1, 2026 target of having our new structure and these in effect, for that. So any question on the timeline at all.

[69:18] I'm gonna flip it over to Megan. Now, just to kind of go over the membership work that's been being conducted. Yeah. So, as Stacey mentioned, we started really doing a deep dive into the market analysis, especially around our facility access fees. That's pretty normal for us to do every other year. We look at that again, and kind of see, where are we? And where should we be to make sure we're meeting our own cost? Recovery goals? So this time we've really looked at it. And looking at the market research, where sometimes we're a little bit different than other organizations. So the last time we really looked at our membership structure was in 2019. We did a large community survey or a feedback form. I think technically, it's not statistically valid, right? And so

[70:04] we've done a couple of things, one just looking at all the 2024 data from our outdoor pools. Pull the reservoir separately and recreation Center separately, but then, also building off of that 2019 feedback, we've asked a couple of key questions to help us really see? Well, how do we really look at this a little bit more detailed to help us inform the future. And so keeping this high level right. If you look at our recreation facilities currently, we are very reliant on our memberships for revenue at the recreation centers. We do not have the most diverse business model of those locations, so, regardless of what we you know, what our membership structure looks like. One thing that we're already actively working on is our recreation center business plan, which includes some of that

[71:03] diversifying revenue streams. How do we better lean into the fact that the East Boulder Community Center could be a really great place to host weddings. And we're not really doing that really well yet, you know, we could be renting out the basketball gym a little bit more often to use sports teams or leagues and things like that, while also balancing community benefit to just come in and shoot hoops or play volleyball, or whatever else it is right. So I think. just kind of drawing our attention, that the business model at the Rec centers is going to be looked at. In addition to the membership structure. Additionally, it kind of brought our our highlight that our outdoor facilities have very different business models. Specifically, if you, if you look at this, okay, Scott Carpenter Pool currently is also very reliant on memberships or daily entries for its revenue. While spruce school actually has a good deal more rentals and programming where we don't offer programming at Scott which helps it overall. And the Boulder reservoir is probably our most diverse business model.

[72:17] and all to say that when you're looking at all these, the market for these various types of outdoor facilities versus recreation centers versus boulder reservoir are very different. It's it's not a light for like comparison with market research. And so we also looked at our entries. And so these are just some high level details. Right now, a large amount, 55% plus of all of our entries system wide are heavily discounted. So this means that 45% of our population who's paying full price is having to carry a little bit more of that load.

[73:00] And so we wanted to just kind of really understand. How are we distributing the little subsidy that we do across memberships. And right now you can kind of see the high level. Just, for instance, seniors who purchase passes not 3rd party right? The subsidy is 172,000. That's our estimate based on the average cost of entry. Can you explain what 3rd party means? Yes, so 3rd party entry is anyone who accesses our facility through a what it says. 3rd party, so it might be insurance provider. It's your silver sneakers, silver and fit those types of things. So for our 3rd party providers which are primarily the insurance providers, as example, silver sneakers, or renew active we negotiate a fee per entry, and we can't really share the details of exactly what that is. But

[74:01] those are currently heavily subsidized entries above and beyond probably what our intended senior discount. 25% is. And so we're just trying to recognize that that is something that is happening. It doesn't mean that we should or shouldn't be doing it. Just, it's a data point right now. So typically if we are provide like, an employer would be providing a 3rd party thing and we're under. We wouldn't necessarily have a contract with someone like that right? They might be getting a public service discount, or they might be buying passes for their employees at a discount that all of their employees would qualify for regardless right. So everyone who buys a membership who works or live within the city of Boulder gets the resident discount rate right? And so let's say, I'm making this up. This doesn't exist, let's say, ball aerospace, which is in within city boulder limits wanted to buy passes for their participants or their workers. They're not getting a better deal than anyone else. Currently.

[75:11] So they would just be getting the the resident rate on that. And and maybe there'd be like a small discount if they were doing punches right based on. If you buy a certain number of punches, you get X number of discount based on things that we do. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And it same thing. If someone's working at Cu Boulder right? If they were to do something like that, they get the public service discount. In addition to the resident discount, which is just a 15% discount. But it does. You know it does add up. yeah, of course. And so this is, this is kind of the high level of how people are accessing their facilities and what the actual dollar amount based on

[76:00] averaging. So if we take all of the if we take the whole cost of operating all of our indoor outdoor facilities, which is like 5.8 million dollars and we divide that by total number of entries we get $9 and 46 cents per visit is the average cost per entry or sorry. That's the no, it's yeah. That's average recovery. 79 is our average. We're electing right now. Currently. Yes, so and what it actually costs. If we were to look at a 60% or 67% cost recovery target is we would need to be getting an average recovery rate of 9 46 per visit. So we've kind of identified in our existing membership structure. We have a 2.6 7. So $2, 67 cents gap

[77:03] on average recovery of cost per entry for us to be making our cost recovery goal of 67% cost recovery. How does that compare to national models? Are we in line? Or I would say, we're somewhat unique. Many communities either fully subsidize their recreation programs and recreation access or heavily subsidize it. So the way our model works and our we have a target of 67% cost recovery, which is is pretty comparable to the average. But there are many communities that are funded much higher from general funds than than we are. And so it's a great question. And I think Megan highlighted it really well here, and knowing that our our true cost of access is over $14 per visit. we. We got some some work to do to catch up, and I think. And that last slide, as she was showing in different ways. You'll see. Monthly passes are our go to. That's our biggest source of access is through monthly passes.

[78:11] but it is very diversified across the board. And so we're trying to really make sure that we're looking at things holistically. And in 2019. That's the last time we fully looked at it. There was some decisions that were made that we tried out. And quite frankly, and you're gonna probably get into this. It's time to look at it again so and figure out the best way to make sure that those that can pay are paying well, and we've we made some assumptions about what it costs to operate a facility, for instance, like stuff, perpend or pool. It's it it now kind of more qualifies almost as a water park versus just your normal pool in the ground pool, right like Spruce pool where a pool like spruce pool. It might be common that people may include that with facility, entry like to a rec center and and as a pool as

[79:05] that has so many amenities like Scott Carpenter. It's actually more common that people would charge for that separately. And it doesn't mean necessarily charge more. It just means charge differently, potentially. No, that one. Yeah. So does that mean that if you were to charge everybody coming in $2 and some cents more that you meet your cost. so if we so for instance, this this 1411 here in our existing membership structure, where we give I don't remember the percentage exactly for financial aid. Right there they would remain, getting 100% free access. 3rd party would remain at whatever the negotiated contracts are, or continue to be, some kind of gap and additional subsidy, provided there the 45% of people that are paying full cost recovery would need to pay that 1411 for us to meet our goals in our existing structure without looking at it

[80:12] or changing anything at all we wanted. It's a $2 we wanted to cover all of our cost of entrance fees. We would have to be charging 1411. But we but we don't do that from those other charge. We have some program revenue. $22 is just for the 67% correct. Right? But to your point, although we are unique. everyone should have a cost recovery target because you have cost to maintain the facility. And then you have people coming in. So is that something that you've looked at? I mean, that's just should be. I don't even I don't even yeah. So we we know right now, based on our different revenue streams at different locations. Where we are with cost recovery by facility. So you know the boulder reservoir that has a very diverse revenue structure is, you know, meeting its cost. Recovery targets right and the East Boulder community center, actually, because it has so much more programming spaces and programs that operate out of there.

[81:16] Is doing better at cost recovery, even though the North Boulder Rec center has way more entrance, but because the North boulder Rec center relies 89% on memberships for its revenue, because there's not a lot of rental space. There's not a lot of other things that we do there, except except allow people to come in and use the space right? That that all plays into it having a slightly lower. You know, I would say, I think the normal direct center is at about 67% cost recovery. So it's probably needed. But we could be doing it a smaller way. I'm hearing a lot of requests for benchmarking. We did just receive the Nrpa benchmarking data for 2024 that compares us to Colorado agencies, and then nationally, cities between 100 150,000. So we'll bring that back next month. It talks about earned revenue cost recovery percentages, expenses per staff. So

[82:09] we can bring that back. And I'm gonna go with a question from the audience real quick. Bernie sent some questions that I'd be remiss not to ask, because he wants you. He would like to have an answer while he watches after his class. His question on this is on the reservoir fees. It is my personal opinion that Boulder should be moving away from allowing motorized recreation on the reservoir rather than when it experienced body of water too small to accommodate the existing uses and allow water skiing. Motorized recreation is not consistent with the city's climate goals. With that in mind has there been any discussion of using the fee structure to disincentivize motorized boat. and he recognizes this opinion may not be universally yep. Great question. Certainly. We've had that conversation, and we have had some Town Hall meetings over at the reservoir with users of the reservoir. Heavy users. I think what we hope to do is is, look at the fee schedule this year for the reservoir and the fee structure for the reservoir for access.

[83:10] We're looking at that, and that'll come back to you later this summer, as well as far as disincentivizing voting usage. I think that would be something that would be determined, based on feedback from the community, and probably in the next 2 to 3 years we'd like to do a a new master plan for that site that would really help us to identify program priorities. And what could potentially look like we've had the conversation, is it? You know more of a natural area out of the reservoir, or is it a fun park with, you know, Rv. Parking and all kinds of things. And so the future of that reservoir and what the priorities are out there really needs to have a high level of community engagement. And I think.

[84:08] and all, all to say is through our market research. I think we've we've identified that we want to bring you some levers or some things that we can kind of talk through and see, how do? How do we want to move forward here? We certainly one of those options will be. Let's keep it the status quo, and we'll give you some numbers of what new fees would need to look like if we change nothing. But then we want to give you a little bit more information. And you know, for instance, should the Boulder reservoir be able to be accessed without having access to everything right. It's less expensive to operate some of the recreation centers than it is to operate specifically stack, carpenter or the reservoir. Some of our outdoor facilities where chemicals have gone really up, or staffing costs have have grown, or we have ans to deal with. Things change and the markets for listings change. And so certainly I think we know from our community that some kind of premier pass that includes everything that needs our cost. Recovery target should probably still be an option right?

[85:17] And could it be more affordable? If you really are someone who's these are examples, this is nothing as concrete. We'll give you numbers to look at, you know. Could it be more affordable? And could we avoid some additional fee increases by separating out, say, the Rec. Center, the person who really does just come to the Mercol Direct Center to scan their pass and use the weight room. Do they need to be paying the same fee for the person who is using that and the reservoir and the upper pool I don't know, so we'll give you. We'll we'll come up with some levers we're hoping to come back in July with just a little bit more information, so that you can help give us some direction additional direction for the community, and at the same time we'll present some of the data that we collected through the feedback forms that were out in May along with some of the historical feedback that we had in 2019 to kind of help. Say, this is what we've heard from the community historically.

[86:12] because July is going to be such an important decision discussion for us. Is it possible we could get some of this information sooner than like the weekend before? Yeah, I think. I don't know how quickly we'll need to make a final decision on the fee structure. I think there's some time there. What I will say is any structure that we implement any changes that we implement to our fees. We're going to create a structural proposal structure to you that hits our current revenue targets or exceeds, we would never provide a structure that says we're going to lose more money on a certain area. So I think. in approving the budget and what Jackson needs from you in July. We can still work on on refining this. And then we're gonna want to do a high level of community engagement. At least be informed.

[87:07] probably in November and December, to make sure the public understands what's happening. So this is also going to align with our implementation of our new recreation management software and and so we're feeling like, we've got some time. And I will say that things have changed a lot since 2019 right? And so our costs have changed for facilities. But Megan also mentioned, you know, we we weren't operating Scott Carpenter at the time, and and it costs a lot more to operate than we thought it was going to, and the reservoir with the Ans. We don't know what we're going to run into with Eurasian water, no foil and the cost of that mitigation. And so I think we're just trying to figure out some of that flexibility. And then also with the fiscally constrained environment. I think there's a real strong need to look at ways to be more creative, to generate additional resources and just referring back to the timeline, we'll be finalizing the membership structure in Q. 3. So you all do have some really bringing some ideas and stuff. Nothing finalized. Or this is set in stone for me to vote on in July.

[88:25] and I'll pass it back to Stacey. Oh, yeah, is there any questions on the membership work before I wrap it up there. Okay, so I'm just gonna go over just 3 other areas that the public should be aware of that we are looking at for 26. The policy updates. The 1st is the flat irons golf course. We did do a comprehensive market study. that is in your package right now, what we found is that comparisons for 9 holes of play are comparable to market average. The course is still pretty much below our competition for 18 holes, so we will be looking at that as well as you know, all the different components that bring in revenue at a golf course. There, we'll look at some access options. Does it even make sense for value? Passes? A lot of the courses that we looked at in the market are going away from the value pass.

[89:19] and really going more to a Punch Pass option is what we found. So that was pretty interesting. So we will be working with the staff out of the golf course, who really have their pulse on this just to try to develop that there the next one is the contracted programming rentals and commercial use. We are putting together a 2026 community access framework which will kind of steer us in the direction in progressing those areas and seeing what fees we can do in doing that market rate comparison, we did find that our field rental rates are pretty much in line or lower than surrounding municipalities. We are much lower looking at the school district and see you, which sits in our backyard, too, so just kind of taking a look and making sure

[90:09] that were structured, you know, correctly in some areas and not so much in others. But I'm just diving into deep. and then we'll be evaluating any alternative. Revenue options out there. How are we charging for things? Are we missing anything? Are our competitors charging a little bit differently, does have a lot of commercial use fees that they do put in. They also put it in on numbers a little bit differently. So just really taking a deep dive in all that information. and then the last thing would be port access fees. So the 2024 court system plan will help us guide this fee development. In looking at, you know, market comparatives. We did find, I think the biggest glaring difference was that a lot of other municipalities have different kind of study. So really, this

[91:03] kind of looking at that and deciding what those fees will be right now. So that is all team be as we go through this work over the next several months. These are our other really big areas of focus. Any questions on these memberships. I if you don't mind, I've got one other question for Murray that I just want to jump back to just one second. Ask this this kind of goes back to what we were talking about before he asked on the fee policy. Can you tell us how much profit Bpr is able to derive from commercial uses of parks, camps, yoga classes, etc, cost recovery is listed at 100% plus, and he's wondering what the plus is doing for the budget asking, because presumably the operators of those enterprises are deriving profit by using city facilities. I'm happy to take that one. We currently have a commercial use program. That was a pilot developed in 2012.

[92:08] That is what the community access framework is trying to transition towards. I can tell you the cost. Recovery right now is in the single digits for some of our groups. Whereas other groups it's significantly higher. The difficulty we're having is, how do we phase this in for a group that hasn't historically paid full cost recovery, but because we have a pilot program that never graduated into an ongoing program. The intention is to get them closer towards full cost recovery. It may be a phased in approach that it takes several years to get there, but right now the answer is very little full cost recovery. Okay, Mark and I are going to tag team Cip. This is your 3rd touch with it. Just a reminder. We have the 3 different categorizations. Asset management is really taking care of our existing assets, parks and recreation facilities is more planning for those larger refreshes, larger projects. And then system planning is looking 5 to 7 years in advance.

[93:14] What are the trends? What do we need to be doing just a reminder. 5 years, $50,000 or more. I sound like a broken record once again. As we're going through our ask for finding budget reductions. We will be looking at Cip as well back to Scott's Point. This is really one time funding that's not necessarily ongoing, and there are implications, as far as not investing in your assets and taking care of what you have. Which is a key theme from the 22 department plan. So we plan to really focus on this very closely. And let's be strategic, not reduce every project by 5%. We know that asset management starting in 2221. We listed out these 10 or 12 categories of assets. We have added more categories over time, and I think that we finally have enough information where we are going to increase or decrease these based on what our actual spend has been. We have spent a lot of money on courts over the last 3 years.

[94:20] and as a result, the amount that we're spending on ports on a go forward basis will likely decrease just because there was so much deferred maintenance and conversion to post country. That's that exciting one, isn't it? Because it's a new board work together on the 25 years feels like we're investing more money. But over the course of 50 years, instead of investing 290,000. 295,000. Sorry, 265,000 to get

[95:10] investing in 92,000 here. So 50 years, we've had a reduction. It's okay. And that's the Jackson's Point. There, that's why you see that we haven't actually got the timeframe. It's a really nice way of showing how we're investing in the future. That's okay. The other thing I'll just call out is, when we come back to you next month we will likely shift some of these asset management categories from asset management into a project. If we are touching the bathroom, if we're touching the shade shelter, if we're redoing a parking lot, we may take this money, and really put all of our eggs in one basket for that park refresh that year, just recognizing that there are assets there. So you may see certain years where we've backed up the asset management. That means it's going towards a specific project. And we're just making that project whole.

[96:11] It's much easier to track from the finance side. It's much easier for you all to convey to the public as far as oh, this money is actually what it costs to work on multiple perk instead of you have to look at the asset management for shelters and bathrooms and parking lots. Is this I apologize if you answered it. But this is like, roughly 3 million dollars. What is our usual annual? I need to jump ahead. asset management. We have an average budget of 2.4 million parks facilities, 2.6 million urban forestry, 500,000 system planning just under 200,000. And then. Ccrs, we do have a whole lot of money at 65 million that we really back that out because that achieves action and vision level.

[97:02] But we keep it slightly separate. When you see the creation facilities, it's not like creating a bunch of new stuff, mobilization fees and things like that. Pull some of the individual assets into the platform. So it's 2.4 about for asset. And just asset management. I'm just curious about that line. Specifically, that's about normal like, that's a normal cost for asset management. We're underfunded significantly. So what would you like asset management to look like need to go back to the department plan. I believe we wanted it at 4%

[98:00] management of the assets. So not having replacement from the areas that are past their life cycle. So we're trying to keep in good condition discussing more and more. That's the call. 22 department plans at 7.5 million just accounting for inflation works number of 10 million. I'm just going to finish on this slide first, st and then we'll hop back. So, as Mark mentioned, park migration facilities is really those park refreshes. It's not a new park. We did break out urban forestry management just because there is the urban forest strategic plan. This really addresses the capital nature of trees. Trees are viewed as a appreciating asset. They increase in value over time.

[99:01] And then system planning are really those plans that help guide the next 5 to 7 years. This includes everything from way. Too much love to a natural land system. Plan to the future of recreation or the future of parks are different examples. Alright. Well, jump back through currently, 26 projects are listed on the screen. You've heard about these before. This is the area where we need to really address staff capacity and budget just with the cost escalation and increases. We're going to be looking at all of these projects, and we'll come back with a better recommendation. It may mean that we're decreasing funds in one project to fund another. We may delay a project, we may say this is no longer a priority. It goes to the unfunded list. So those are all realistic options. I want you to be aware of here next week. As we're going through this the moment really identified, we're looking at the Perks for we're looking at visitation data. We're looking at the asset quality. So there's a lot of different metrics that go into it. And last month of the month before Mark shared the dashboard that we're using to help guide that decision?

[100:14] Can I ask a question for the Tom Watson pickleball at 2.0 2 5? Is that allocation or budget adjustment by the City council of the 925,000. Does that affect that at all reduce that number? No. This 2.0 2 5 is exact within exactly what we have in the budget. Currently. I will say quotes are coming in significantly higher than this, that we will either need to sign engineer down. There is a fundraising campaign that playholders leading right now as part of their place making. We could look for grants would have to think about phasing

[101:09] all right. Park projects. You've seen all of these before. We just want to be very transparent that this is a lot for the capacity of the planning team. So you will hear more about some of the phasing of this when we come back to you next month. as part of our opportunities to find reductions, but also align community expectations with what our staff capacity truly is. And I wouldn't say it's just our staff capacity. It's our contractors. It's getting through. Permitting. What we used to think was a year long. Project is now probably 2 years to do the full life cycle of a refresh. I see this is the non cleaner in the room. So It's easy for me to look at the numbers, and then I just want to call out. There's no intention to take away any funding from the Ccrs projects. All 3 projects were named. When the ballot went to voters in 22,

[102:04] the civic area refresh. We currently have about 19 million dollars for Pearl Street. Mall is a mix of different funding. This will come back to you as Jenny asked earlier. And then the East Boulder Community Center. We're working with facilities on that project, and you heard a little bit about it from Darren last month. Alright, so that gets us to the total across everything. We have about 100 million dollars in our cap over the next 6 years. This is part of the area where we will be looking for targeted reductions, not peanut butter. Approach where we just reduce everything? So that's where we will talk through. Can our construction team do more work? And save 90% of the cost of what a feature play consultant group would do? Can we change the sequencing and scheduling. So all of this will be brought back to you next month with some recommendations here. This is really just a ballpark number as far as what was included in the budget that's already approved. So you're aware of the types of projects in cip

[103:09] any questions on Cip. Okay, I think we've gotten answers to a lot of these throughout. These were the questions that were included in the packet. I'm happy to read them off or leave them up here to see if you all have any other thoughts you wanted to share with us. One other question, and this is, it's a budget line item that I found throughout, and that is this consultant, the consultants. And it's a pretty big city, wide lineup. I was wondering full disclosure. I'm not like professional. I'm an actual consultant. So what I'm saying. like, I feel like the city has really knowledgeable employees is the consulting required, or do you just prefer. I just wonder why it's such a large line item in the budget off overall.

[104:04] And here you have a project charge. You know. Construction project the consultant charge somewhere between 8,000 to 20,000 capacity. There's a couple of things that we are. Actually, we did look at, probably increasing the staffing. We've seen a shift back to where those percentages we're gonna have. Yeah. So that's exciting. There is always going to be a factor. Let's take, say, 3 months, maybe 300 folks and strength. So we do have to rely on consultants.

[105:02] And what we did recently, for example, for 2 projects where expenditure was coming in around 80. We thought it actually went to 15%. So we'll be really careful about it. And let's saved somewhere between 2. So we're trying our best to reduce. That's great. and I will say that Mark's the easy one to pick on. We do have consultants across the department. Some of our tree contractors are contracted. not necessarily not contractors. Much consultants like the people that come in and like, just draw stuff, not the guys that actually cut down the trees right again, like I'm super familiar with the consulting industry. I just was wondering how it can be better utilized in the city. I think that was a perfect explanation. Sometimes it is required by another department. So, implementing our new recreation management software, we were required by it and city manager's office. The nice thing is term Limited. We don't have an ongoing employee very much an expertise that we don't have in house. That we look at that, and then I will just highlight anything that's over $50,000. We typically run through a full

[106:23] Rfp process. So we do get responses. We aren't required to go with the lowest bidder, but we go with the most responsible bidder. But we really are doing our research and verifying. We are getting the best cost. Otherwise, I think, does anybody have any specific answers? Or do you feel like

[107:01] she's not cutting anything, be very strategic about where it makes sense, and also using it as an opportunity to identify cost savings that will benefit us years down the line versus something that temporarily pause, but sets us up for increasing costs in the future. Okay, great. Thank you for the Marathon. Thanks for putting all that together for us in 5 days. That was really, really. Stacey gets the credit here as is negative. Thank you both. We appreciate all the information for sure. Next, moving on to matters from the department, I believe. Yes, so Mark has some exciting news to share has made some really good progress on the Tom Watson port. So what? Take a look?

[108:03] It's okay. So 1st off, I'll just do a comparison. There's an update on the project, and 1st off with his family. And so we've asked Matt Hilbert, who is our senior manager to pick up this project manager. think you're online, the line. Is that right? So after the presentation tonight. that's basically the agenda to school through. Why, we do the project. What's the program? Getting some details on the layouts. and then talk about the schedule that we think about that. And then some questions.

[109:03] First, st are you able to promote Matt to see online. Yes, I am. Just want to say hello and introduce you. Yeah, Matt Pilger. I joined the plan design team back last June. Prior to that I was one of our Recreation Center managers for 5 years, and have really worked in parks and recreation about 1520 years now. So excited to be joining the team and being able to help over on this Tom Watson project which really just aligns with a lot of the work I'm doing with an asset management already. So it was kind of a easy transition when we heard Chris Christoph was leaving so oh, that. So, Tom. we are working in an area that's somewhat complex, quite complex. So, working with Ali and a few other folks, the next one on the list is Tom Watson

[110:18] system. So the call system and the goal in consistent plan was, Get us to 22 calls dedicated for pickleball by 2026. So at the moment, we said, based on capacity and land restrictions, etc, we can actually get a lot of calls. Now let's get that shot when we across like any park. When you dive into it, you start to uncover a few little things that are going on when you're like, oh, this isn't quite working. So on the left you'll see, with the pickleball courts some pretty typical stuff lightning and fencing, some small shade planners. We'll get concrete walkways and lightning access those faults, some new trees and plantings in relation to screening

[111:13] production set up, and as we looked at it we recognized Hamilton also needs a few things site finishings. We do have food trucks. Use the site somewhat randomly. Can we get a better term pickle, which is copyrighted? So we did decide that we can research the basketball court. And again, that's a good example system. Because, frankly, the mobilization of the company 1st of all calls and available. And then the things just like we know, we have to take out the the area that's there. That's in poor condition. And it's has some safety issues which are actually managing this week.

[112:06] And so we need to replace it. And at this point, though that will be more phase 2, the fencing, and and then we'll have to look at temporary recipes. And I'll explain that next slide. So what you see here is the concept. Design is 1, 2. Everything's local on there. So you get a sense of the site, please, where the 12 people E is, where existing tennis courts are, and I is those basketball courts. F is where we'll be able to play in an area for the Major League, but not quite get into developing what that is in phase one. And now you see where she is. That's like. who should have this? The bathroom. What approximate is that white structure just to the right to see, we have to demo the existing bathroom, and that's been closed 3 years. It's been closed, and it's been on the list.

[113:10] So this is a great example again, combining that at the same time, possibly one bathroom. So that's why we'll be doing temporary. What is? It's Dee. Yeah, it's just basically it's it's a fancy term for an area where you don't have shade. Password design is good. And most of those mark. Most of those trees are already existing in that area. And so it's it's a great way to continue utilizing that natural space in the area. Yeah, please chip in that as we go through this here, you see, as I zoom in a bit, here's what we've got for phase one. It's that dashed outline which I've just explained. Where we get most of the concrete done for the sidewalks and the main corridors. You'll see that part of this is not just about pickleball. We're trying to help utilize the basketball and the tennis courts for this sort of event space in the middle, and the features. So all

[114:14] 3 types of sports get equal fair play with the way it gets active. The Matt actually has been incredibly helpful with his knowledge on the design of the pickle courts, especially in terms of things like, make sure there's gates on either side which I'll be honest to make sure people are walking across codes and blender. So it's nice having that knowledge on. Is there anything else you'd like to add. No, I think we're good. Just yeah. There you see just another zoom in of the draft. And you can see how, for instance, critical things like shape structures. And we'll see these go on the ground in Nevada and Broomfield. So we've been able to look at some of the latest design work that's gone massively growing sport.

[115:04] and take a look at some of the successes that have occurrence. We get the best we can. What is the schedule for the project? This is a good example where I think our team is up and running, and we're able to actually put something on the ground within roughly 12 months, which is very exciting to see we're in green in the middle part. We're literally about to advance the construction drawings and move into a negotiations for contracts. We have a existing contractor through what's called contract. So that's not your opinion. It's where we bring on board through on board in that contract, and it actually creates huge value for money, because the relationships already set goal is that round about November we should have construction done.

[116:00] and hopefully, early November, and then we'll probably spend a month screws things up just because when the contract and one of the things that Matt and our pops up, folks have looked at again is salvaging, like, for instance, existing dentures, etc, that are in good condition to make sure that we it's just really interesting. The numbers typical soft opening hopefully in December. I'll put a copy on that copy. That on that in a second is something that. So then, you see, phase 2. That 1st sentence is not the best one I've ever written, but it makes sense. It's kind of like a British sentence. It just goes on forever. But the main point I'm trying to make. Here is phase 2 for 2026. We have restroom funding, and we are able to resurface the property. There's a good thing coming in during 25.

[117:01] So 6, 9, 7, yes. Here you see phase 2, which is unfund, unfunded things like layer replacements, wall control improvements, in fact, furnishings. Traditional trade shows, sometimes potentially working with the holder and Brian funding campaign to see if we can get this additional work funded through that campaign. But basically focus on the sort of curriculum. What's the dollar number? What's the dollar amount? I would say approximately this point somewhere. 5 to 600,000, just a quick lighting.

[118:15] I will say very exciting to see the lighting in. even for the pickleball courts. That's not a given. There's a lot of pickleball courts that don't have lightning, which is really challenging. So appreciate that you're right, you know. Excuse me so, which is more revenue, right? You know. 5 o'clock, 4 o'clock. Great, and then do pickleballers play during the winter? Mean, I think that's the nice thing about the climate in.

[119:21] you know, winter. But it's sunny. Yeah. And I mean there's days where it gets warm enough, and you're just shoveling the the snow off the court as part of the court system. Quite a bit of community engagement, and there was a desire for indoor tennis courts, and we certainly looked at the courts and the cost of those. And there's a lot of challenges to make it work financially. But yeah, it's surprisingly expensive. But I think 40 to 20 million dollars.

[120:02] I'm good. And so there's an Admin meetings. And okay, so tonight, obviously here. hopefully, soft opening, we actually just today got a and asbestos finding in the closed so that might delay project slightly. It is. This is phase 2 from the account from it. So there's a 3 questions there. So so I have a 1 on your plan on the picture that you have this, which is 63, rd running I. And then is there a pond? Yes, in the back? No, no. Coot lake on the other side. Is there a retention pond, a retention? A little pond? Yeah, just to the South Lake.

[121:14] and that's dead. Yes, okay, great. And then Bernie asks. looks great looks like it will add a lot for applicable community to enjoy. I think there's an opportunity to improve bike access to the park with an entrance at the southern end of the property, where the existing reservoir pathways to 63rd Street. with an entrance to the park at the location and improved crossing to help cyclists, pedestrians be visible to vehicles coming up the grade from the south, we can easily tie the park into existing, and prevent people on bikes from having to ride on 63rd Street. Is this something that can be added to the if additional funds are needed and they become part of a play campaign. This might require changes to the major player.

[122:05] Just make sure we get those notes incorporated. Thanks for muted. We've heard that before, and you know, like this call. It's a health bundle, because it also connects. And I'll just add in there to some of the analysis that's going in, that we'll go into phase 2 is specifically the fitness loop. That kind of goes around that isn't being touched. But with that we also have access to Strava Metro data which specifically says that right? That yeah, it's a heavily used biking area. And so we were able to actually see kind of some of those heat maps, and exactly probably what Bernie's kind of speaking to. And I think that's that just goes into the full analysis of what we're looking at within the parks. For each site.

[123:01] Mark, speak just since I'm new here. How? How does the priorities of the phase? 2. Can you just do say, for example you want to for one year. Just do lighting, wayfinding and then follow it up later with something else. That's second on the list. Or do you have to do all of those within a 1 year, 2 year period. No, it's a great question, especially as you know the message staff capacity. We will. We like to do it in one job block just. And and in this case, though this is a court focus project, so we do know that it's a priority. Things like classrooms are essential. visa, see question from Tom, nelson also say, I just think, this is win, I think this park is very and not a lot of activity happening at town, Watson. So I think you know, great for the pickleball community. But also this can be a way to really revitalize this park and probably bring in people for all kinds of

[124:25] activities. And right now, I think it's just, it looks a little sad. It's just not really appealing to a broad, you know. Audience. definitely available. Alright. Anything else. Okay, thanks everybody. Thank you so much. Mark, for that presentation. thanks for getting that one up and running so quickly. That's super exciting. All right. Next, we have matters from the board. This portion of the meeting is for members to of the Board to report on Crab's annual work, plan.

[125:01] goal of each member attending 2 or more parks and recreation related community activities per month, promoting parks and recreation through social media attending site tours and supporting the Department's partnership initiatives. What items would board members like to report on at this time? I will start. That's okay. Okay. Two- 2 2 things. First, st is there any news on our getting our new person or our last? I believe? City Council will be doing that in August. They're about to go on a hiatus there for the summer, and then in the August meeting someone would be nominated from them. And that means probably September before we have someone joining. Okay, so that's still on the schedule. Right? And then this is from Bernie.

[126:01] the Mall was the scene of a violent attack on June 1st was Bpr. Involved at all in the immediate incident or aftermath. He's especially wondering if our rangers or bathroom attendants were present at the time of the attack, and if they have received any support in managing the impact of proximity to the incident, were there any other Bpr. Staff involved or impacted? Will the incident lead to any changes to the permitting process or security procedures for special events going forward? But I did reach out to Scott right afterwards, just to make sure. And Ally, just to make sure that everything was okay with the department. And that's they were, okay. Yeah, obviously, a really tragic incident that occurred. Our urban rangers were not on site and we're not dispatched to respond. And so they were certainly on the radio and in the loop as to what was happening. We also did not have any park staff on site with the weekend and and so our staff were not impacted directly from the event. However, certainly we have a lot of follow up conversations offered additional services to anybody that had concerns or wanted to speak with someone. But it's

[127:15] yeah. It hits really close to home. As you all know, poster is considered a park, and it's 1 of our spaces that we really take a lot of pride in. And that's it's very disappointing that that occurred. And we're gonna continue to work ways to work with our Pd. And the rest of the departments to try and minimize those type of risk. I think that question he asked about permitting is interesting. Will the incident lead to any changes to the permitting process or security procedures for any special events going forward? Would that come out of parts are planning, you know. That's that's a great question. Think it's more of a vitality. Follow up with them on that that question.

[128:13] and other than that for me, civic center looks amazing. I really enjoyed attending, and I didn't mean to take your thunder. When I asked the question it was just that Scott told me all about the- the cost savings. Okay. thank you for the name tags also for everybody that's always great. Anything else from anybody on park activities. I was wondering if anybody responded to Mr. O'rourke's email. best board member or desk Board meeting about an update on the parks and rec plan for preservation, restore settings.

[129:00] Is it from the same token? And I know this is super challenging for you guys in the next. So we appreciate it, especially getting us ready for just curious. Here are all the forestry trees for that we have the autops, you know. You might do that. Okay, which is 200 per free. What else? Goats are hired? They're hired at. Get rid of Zoom Phone feedback.

[130:04] Yeah, no, it's not parts. But it's amazing to see the cows. By the way. alright, there's nothing else on 5 min. Then. Next board meeting is July. You're putting me on the spot. Let me look. July 28, th okay, and I'll be it's not fun. all right, if there's no further business for the fact.