November 27, 2023 — Parks and Recreation Advisory Board Regular Meeting

Transcript

Captions from City of Boulder YouTube recording.

[0:00] November meeting of the parts and Recreation Advisory Board we will start with approval of the agenda so I'll entertain a motion to approve the agenda so moved great second second great thank you is there any discussion of the agenda any changes to the agenda there need okay all in favor of approving the agenda to stand say I hi hi great uh next up we have future board items and tours so I'll uh hand this over thank you Mr chair folks I'm Ali rhods I'm the director of parks recreation for the city of bter um saying that out loud to remind everyone for recording and we do have a few members of the community with us uh tonight so for future board items the biggest item that I want to call out and it I believe it shows up later under your matters for the board so we have been trying to schedule a joint board meeting to landmarks board around an area area where there is I

[1:01] wouldn't say joint purview because the crab does not have perview on historic designation however there is a designation being considered for Parkland and so your um input is appreciated so that meeting was Ted scheduled for December 6th but didn't say tedly it was calendared for December 6th unfortunately as a result of the recent election um and unfortunately one of our board members is now a bbsd board member in Jason so he is not able to participate that evening we no longer have a forum that meeting been cancelled we had previously pulled frb for a date for their December meeting given that it currently Falls um the first the fourth Monday of the month in December December 25th we had pulled your availability and you had um a Corum for both Monday December 11th and Monday December 18th we've now pull the landmarks board and staff recommend that you meet Monday December 18th um we have adjusted the proposed agenda you can see it's very clear there are no action items or discussion items

[2:00] for December the landmarks board would join your business and the first 90 minutes would be that joint board meeting and then you would discuss your Matters from the department and Matters from the so I tee that up I believe it call is later under Matters from the board but that's the biggest item I want you to notice on the future board items and tours the other thing I'll just call out is that uh you walk through the Civic area and you see some of the snow much fun activities happening outside those are in partnership with staff and fire department and in community vitality downtown Boulder partnership I um highly recommend you walk around in the Civic area and downtown on the grill Street Mall There's real lights there's some um I always mess up it's not actual real virtual reality VR um app based games that you can play and I think believe there's an information in that uh if it wasn't in this month's packet it's in last month's packet um what's the start time in the Dr meeting 6 6 p.m yeah and you'll get um I believe that's going to be all will be confirmed tomorrow morning and we

[3:01] will update your calendars following tonight's discussion making sure we haven't missed anything and making sure there's still um at least four of you available for that um we are in the process right now of finalizing our q1 calendar so you'll see that January and February February are also fairly light we expect when we discuss the agenda with the board chair and vice chair on Thursday they'll be talking about a much more fleshed out calendar our team just went through exercise to pencil that out and when you get the draft agenda Wednesday um you'll get you'll see a more flesh out calendar than what you're looking at here in the future boards we're just at that end of the year time where we're planning the coming year um what you will for sure see in January is our 2024 action plan and that is the department-wide initiatives that are happening either because of approved Capital dollars or um initiatives that we have deemed most important next to implement the 2022 BP our

[4:01] plan um let me just see if there's anything else we need to make sure you see I will just highlight that starting next um Thursday the new council members join the council will be doing an orientation Monday evening and talking about the Departments and the work plans um the 14 I will call it was a Civic area study session to talk to them about the process and the timeline we will summarize that for you um not in your December packet the timeline won't allow for that but in the January packet we'll be able to give you an update it's information you all have seen several times but if you're curious about council's input on the Civic area in that project you can either watch that meeting live you can watch it recorded later or wait for our Cliff note summary in your January meeting all I got thanks Mr chair great any questions yes um speaking of Elections and positions what happens to Jason position does he continue in both City I

[5:03] mean here in the city and the school board or there's no reason for him not to other than that he would recuse himself should there be any matters that have um a conflict if we were to be discussing for example The bbsd Joint use agreement he would recuse himself in that conversation but other than that I'm not aware of any conflict or interest or reason that he would um withdraw from the board unless he as a person determines that that would be his choice thank you any other questions okay uh we'll move on to public participation um so we have two action items uh today later in the meeting and if there are any public comments on those action items which are the approval of the fee schedule and the uh agreement for the full service restaurant at the flat irons golf course if you want to speak on either of those topics you'll need to hold on until we get to those items in the agenda um so so I think we have one person schedule

[6:00] to talk on those items which is Larry Mia so Larry if you could wait a bit we'd appreciate it so for general public comment this portion of the meeting is for members of the public to communicate ideas or concerns to the board regarding Parks and Recreation issues for which a public hearing is not scheduled later in this meeting uh the public is encouraged to comment on the need for parks recreation programs and Facilities as they perceive them and all speakers are limited to three minutes uh depending on the nature of your matter you may or may not receive response from the board or staff after you deliver your comments but we are always listening and uh we do appreciate all the comments you do have and I believe we have uh three speakers signed up for the general public comment plus Larry later in the meeting um there will be Patrick O'Brien Lyn seagull cff Moss um in that order so Rosa let me know when you're ready to sh hello I see that I can unmute now

[7:02] and my name is Patrick I was a professor in Northern Japan for 25 years and I learned an outdoor gang called Park Golf even in Japanese it's Park Golf it's like croquet married to real golf so you're Outdoors on real grass but you're playing much shorter holes 20 yard to maybe 60 yard to the whole the only equipment you need is one club and one ball so it's about $200 all told um my partner down in Texas and I are thinking of using existing disc golf courses and dual purposing them because they're almost identical in out outlay and size uh for example down in uh Boulder the harlo plat disc golf course is excellent for Park Golf

[8:00] because I tried it out last week before the snow came uh the ball rolls wonderfully if there were holes for the ball we could tee off and uh play normally like they do in Japan um eventually we would hope that it could expand to Standalone Park golf courses um I visited most Parks and Recreations in Northern Japan including eus Park I just got back from Steamboat Springs where I was talking to them uh that would be ideal for Park Golf normally it's 36 holes which takes about two hours and the demographics are almost identical to pickle ball So eventually if we could educate the public on uh the wonders of Park Golf a lot of pickle Ballers would certainly be interested in it okay so we're imagining uh early on using the disc golf courses because out in this region one uh dis golf is often

[9:02] watered and that's critical um and then two as I mentioned the size of the course is great also some of the smaller golf courses in the region could work too for example up in Fort Collins they have a nine hole and I've checked it there's lots of extra room for Japanese Park Golf um getting back to disc golf Longmont has a watered course in town Clark Centennial um you have the harlo plat and Estis Park already has a par three golf course that's also used for disc golf adding Park Golf to it would be simple literally it would take a day or two to get it up and running thank you for your time thank you very much that's quite interesting um our next speaker will be ly seagull she is on

[10:13] okay so we don't see Lyn if she shows up before the end of comment later on um so after that is Cliff Moss so Cliff if you are available you should be able to unmute right about now I can do that great we you good evening uh my name is Clifford Moss I am the President of the Boulder Colorado pickleball club uh in this presentation the following comments should be considered the position of both aoko and the boulder tennis Association Michael Sue president together we directly represent excuse me together we represent uh more than 11 00 uh people

[11:02] directly and indirectly at least twice that number of more casual players parks and wreck has recently released the survey results of the Court study plan or CSP there were over 1,00 comments from the public shared by parks and rep we think the results of that questionnaire support the position of the racket Community there are six basic takeaways and the most most important in our opinion are number one dedicated courts the current city strategy is merged courts this is the use of tennis courts for both Sports this approach not only compromises the game it's also uneconomic the use of the same Courts for both Sports has been abandoned by other cities except as temporary transitional necessity item two we need more courts the existing courts cannot handle the current demand situation will get much

[12:01] worse before it gets better regardless of what action the city takes in the short term approximately 27 existing courts will be eliminated in the city while the demand demand will continue to grow item three racket Sports complexes the concept of many locations with few courts is not a sound strategy fewer but larger complex will be better utilized more econom iCal and will present a revenue opportunity for the city item four a quick maintenance a quick tour of the existing courts is the best indicator of Court conditions they have been long neglected item five indoor facilities for tennis and outdoor for pickle ball tennis requirements are indoor courts tennis comes to an end in Boulder during the winter while pick a ball well would wel welcome indoor courts there are private

[13:01] courts available during the winter at a cost unfortunately that may be prohibitive for many many of our members last is compliance with Americans with Disability Act 88 the loss of the Rocky Mountain Tennis Center will bring wheelchair tennis to a halt in six months rmtc is a city treasure even though it's not a city site in conclusion we're pleased with our relationship and Communications with parks and personnel and we will enthusiastically support their efforts in this project our thanks to Tina and Charlotte for their efforts thank you thanks very much cliff and we got your email forwarded on from Bernie so we all have copies of your comments thanks very much uh Roa did Lyn seagull uh appear online I don't see her yet okay if there's no one else that uh has public comment then we'll close public

[14:03] comment and we'll move on to the consent agenda so before discussing a consent agenda I need a motion and a second to approve it so a motion to approve consent agenda motion to approve the consent agenda second second great okay is there any discussion of the minutes first of all okay any discussion on the um planning design and construction updates okay any discussion of the operations updates great since there's no comment let's uh take a vote all in favor of approving the consent agenda please say I I I Sun's on there too I guess hi great

[15:02] thank you you can also raise your hand virtually want okay so um next up is action items we have two action items tonight the first is public hearing and consideration of a motion to approve the fee schedule and then that will be followed by the uh motion to authorize a city manager and an agreement for a full service restaurant at the fat ARS golf course so we'll start with the Fe schedule thank you I'm Jackson he I know that I've been here for the last six months but reintroducing myself so um business services manager for Parks and Recreation Department um as I just mentioned we have been with you a whole lot since March when we began this uh conversation about the fee policy um developing the 2024 budget looking at both revenues and expenses um you all approved a fee uh policy back in July and tonight we're here before you to ask for your approval of the PE scheduled

[16:00] can I interrupt first yes um do we need public comment before the staff presentation or afterwards and let's just run it through for everybody so we're on the same page I've got the action item steps up so when there is an action item first there's a staff presentation to share information and then board members can ask clarifying questions about the presentation and then there's public comment and then there's board discussion so that you consider both the presentation anything you heard from the community and then the board vote okay thank you sorry problem um so should you approve the fee schedule tonight uh it would then go through the city manager rule uh this is a 15-day public notice process where it gets published in uh the day of the camera it's on the city website for people to review and comment um after the those 15 days it would be into effect on January 1st 2024 um we've already talked about communication and engagement strategy with you um we have reached out to our largest user groups um Shar the Fe policy on our um website and look

[17:00] forward to further conversations um with individuals should they have any questions uh first up we wanted to go over the staff adjustments to the PE policy at your last meeting there were some questions um and comments surrounding the um equity and inclusion language found within the feed policy uh we did take the language that was shared with you last month and provided some red lines based on the feedback that we heard from the meeting and went back and relistened to this um this was available in packet but we took out um and that had been prioritized by the community and replaced that with a separate sentence uh based on input from the 2022 Parks and Recreation plan uh we felt as this separated the two sentences and really provided some clarity and then at the very end um we did focus on in alignment with the uh 2022 plan as additional funding um is available so with this I will pause um I know it's difficult word smithing um during a meeting but just wanted to make sure that this captured the intent of the board that

[18:00] was communicated last month that was a very long 15 seconds so we'll keep going um once again this chart was shared with you last month it was also in your packet uh with the fee policy we created 10 different program types uh the intention of the fee schedule is to really look at updating the two fee program types that haven't had significant updates since uh 2019 or prior 2020 or prior uh so that's the golf course in the rentals um as was shared with you previously we will be coming back to you in 2024 with updated information on commercial use and special events and then we do have alternative mechanisms for several of the other categories on there um facility entry is updated by anually Recreation services go to the Serv delivery model contracted programming is

[19:00] at the time um that contract is negotiated and then resale items are with the um when items are purchased and put into our pointner sale we do not have any PS for Open Access and then with Grant and donations um all of that is looked at on a case-by Case basis and we would come back to you with um any questions so first I'm going to start with the questions that were asked by the prep last month um there was a a question about the flatter SC course fees um and what the uh basically year round rate would be uh we did go back and look at the resour research around it um we have had a publish rate for May 1st through October 30th since 2020 um and then we can do promotional pricing throughout the rest of the year the last time we actually did that was in February 2021 based on the increased demand that we're seeing for Golf Course um as well as switching to a new software and just wanting to have more consistent fees throughout the year uh we are seeing that other surrounding

[20:00] courses are switching to year round rates the rational behind us in the golf industry is to minimized price adjustments and um basically you play on February 28th um and come back on March 1st and see a huge increase uh we recognize that the demand exists year round based on the course utilization over the um past three years the fee schedule is structured in a way that promotional pricing is still allowed should we see a decrease um in demand and therefore we could um decrease the price accordingly the two charts on here really highlight the um key changes from 2021 to 2024 2021 being the Baseline year as far as the last time that we saw any um offseason rates and then we also have the 23 to 24 comparison rate um you can see 23 to 24 we are looking at a very modest increase on the 18 holes whereas the nine holes remain relatively flat uh with the exception of the Junior rate on weekends um and this is in line with our

[21:02] uh Benchmark agencies as we shared with you last month pause here and see if there's any questions since there have been questions from the board last time okay up next was a question related to the B Reservoir um multi-passenger or multimodal fees um the fee policy did not look at creating disc accounts um and we do anticipate uh coming back with changes to the fee policy in 2024 typically um discounts are included um outside of the fee schedule and are treated more as a um policy decision we did not include discounts in the initial fee policy but I hope to come back to you with some of our other fees um that we charg such as um deposits cancellation fees uh discounting and all of that will be brought back to you in 2024 uh later tonight you'll hear about the end of season review uh previously this

[22:02] has been called the after action review that we've done for the boulder Reservoir whereas this year it focuses on our summer facilities um we do have the car load fees provided during the Twilight and flank season hours uh Twilight being after 6 pm and uh flank season from April 1st to the Friday before uh Memorial Day and then the Monday Tuesday after Labor Day through uh October 31st see that thought there thank you um and then finally uh one of the capital investment plan items for 2024 is the reservoir operations plan we believe that this is a better opportunity to look at the reservoir comprehensively um how we're programming and different uh ways to access the facility that we think including this with 2024 is the best approach um there provides additional opportunities for public engagement there was an additional question on the boulder Reservoir that looked at that hours of operation um we just wanted to highlight that this was

[23:00] not determined by the fee schedule um our hours of operation are really focused on the financial and Staffing Resources we have a limited budget as well as um Staffing abilities um and then we also look at our historical visitation as far as when people are accessing the facility and we can get this down to every 15 minute increments based on um the type of user and what type of pass they're using um as was looked at in the 2022 after action review there wasn't a significant demand in the um early morning hours or the late evening hours aside from user groups which is why the um existing hours of operation are recommended to remain consistent uh finally we did just want to call out and continue to note that reservoirs across the state have very different funding methods um the boulder reservoir's primary function is drinking water for the city of Boulder um and Recreation opportunities are great but we must protect the water quality with everything I'll pause here as these were the proud

[24:01] based questions are there any questions or comments from the board all right um additionally we did have some red line changes to the uh proposed fee schedule um this was based on a secondary review by staff across the organization um and it's really summarized in here you did get uh two or three sentences on each of these changes in your packet um and I recognize this the first time you may be seeing this so can uh talk through those a little bit more if you have questions I the really broken in support buckets I'll start with the updated language we had overtime hours or after hours that has just been changed to Overtime or outside of operating hours reason being we have events that occur before operating hours and after operating hours that we didn't want it to appear as if it was just after hours that we were um charging this rate it's any hours

[25:00] outside of our typical operating hours um examples of this would be the Iron Man at the boulder Reservoir um and after prom event uh at a Rec Center um those are probably the two biggest examples that really extend into our late night hours or early morning uh the large vehicle fee we had included um this uh seemed a little generic so we did provide some clarification that the large vehicle fee is really only um provided during the Twilight and after or I'm sorry Twilight and flank season um after hours some mistake uh and the reason being um we like to provide a discount for those cars that have more than 10 people in it um the pricing is consistent with what unit Reservoir charges and is $10 per vehicle plus $3 per person um this entrance rate would really um be a huge subsidy to those Vehicles during typical operating hours

[26:00] which is why it's clarified to only be for um Twilight and like Sy rats can I interrupt here I'm I'm really confused by this yes so normally during normal operating hours there is a fee charge to large vehicles that come into the reservoir normal hours there is not it is per person um so someone shows up with a bus with 50 people you would just charge them per person for normal operating hour scratch and so why would you do not continue that on the before normal and after normal hours with both the Twilight hours and the fun season we have a decreased level of service um we do not have beach access at the same level and there's several other things that aren't up to the typical amenities that would be provided noral operating course okay and that was proud policy direction from the after action review last year it's been more years than that so this only applies when Flank season fees for decreased fee in price are fight fees but you're keying in on something I also got tripped on this so

[27:01] there's a language thing that that doesn't impact this fee policy but how we communicate this we can try and figure out because it's it's it's when the fee is already discounted for everybody else it's also going to be discounted for folks showing up on a bus okay yeah thank you that clarifies it yeah I was very confused were you thinking it was like a transportation plan I I it seemed like they were getting an additional charge for arriving in a large okay it's the opposite opposite gotcha all right um there were four items that had a change in price um this was just after we went through with a second third set of eyes uh picnic pricing we had had we had listed a festar picnic package um we've changed this to custom allart pricing just because the five star really wasn't heavily utilized and we wanted something that was based on the um kind of customization that a customer want uh we have set prices for tables chairs

[28:01] canopies ice charcoal RS you name it but it would would be factored in um in that regard with the room rentals at the boulder Reservoir um I had looked at our data incorrectly um we charged it per uh each half of the room um rather than the full room so you will see that that price has doubled um and there was a resident and a non-resident rate there just based on the reservoirs feedback it's very that an individual actually wants to rent that space um it's typically an organization or a group of people that we thought a flat rate made more sense than a resident inist W the outdoor Court rentals you'll be hearing more about the court system plan later tonight uh the recommendation is to just freeze fees as currently structured um pending the recommendations from that plan um and then based on additional market research uh the both the 25 yard indoor and outdoor and the 50 meter outdoor prices were reduced to be more in line with uh Market rates and this uh

[29:02] does maintain the full cost recovery targets establish in the feed policy there were Chuck did you have a question yeah my intake of breath makes everyone stop um so with the the court pricing I thought most of the courts were available during the day first come first serve do you have to reserve a court every time or I'm going to look for a friend over here that's so um You can reserve them they first C of first serve or you can reserve them so it works both ways okay if you want to guarantee the court you should reserve it uh because some of them can be in high demand yeah yeah I understand that it just it sounded like that was the that was all that was discussed here so like you need to you need to pay a fee to use a tennis courts is what I heard when I read this you need to pay a fe to be guaranteed to be able to yes I understand and is your suggestion or the feedback

[30:01] that we should clarify that first come first serve is still a prevailing policy available on the tennis cours and to be guaranteed a spot this is the rental I think that might be helpful for people looking at the fees and they might say oh I have to I have to reserve a court because they don't see the other option and I wonder also wonder I I suspect most people will never look at this fee schedule they will look at the web page for where they go to court reservations and information so perhaps our followup is to make sure that that information that would be fine with yet we don't need to change this this is the Fe schedule for when you do make reservation and that that is still correct it doesn't hurt to note it here I'm just I'm thinking out loud a bit to just think about the way we communicate it hasn't been an issue so I expect it's may be fine but okay thank you all right I there were three items that we were recommending for removal um we had included an amsb um just kind of pending the Eurasian waterm oil

[31:00] conversation we don't have enough information to really feel fair in charging any prices for NSP without knowing what the total fiscal impacts will be uh there is a study going on with the uh utilities department um that will be coming back to PR in 2024 that we are going to press pause and wait for the outcome and recommendations found in that report um and then we had two items that are better um updated through the service delivery model that is the gymnastics birthday parties and then the Cabana parties at Scott Carpenter pool that we would much rather those get updated through Service delivery and then they're included in the recreation program guide each quarter and then finally we had overlooked the uh kitchen rental at the East Boulder Community Center this is a commercial grade kitchen that is mainly just used for um weddings and B get togethers um we have added in a fee there just based on the fact that that is so different

[32:01] than the rest of our spaces so those were the uh staff adjustments that we've made to the fre schedule um I'll pause here and see if there's any other questions I did find a couple of very very minor typos should I send those to you pleas okay thank you all right and then there's two more that I just wanted to to you're calling out for awareness um with the flat IR golf course there's a value fan card you will see that the price increase is over 10% here we did say that we would call out anything that was over 10% um both of these are still below Market um and we think that the prices are very Justified for the level of benefit you're getting the value plan card is really meant for those individuals who play a good amount of golf but not enough to Warrant an annual pass uh you basically need to play 30 rounds of golf where it's a break even given the um

[33:00] individual benefit and very um personal uh benefit that is received from playing this much Golf and utilizing that resource we felt as if this was justified um but did want to call this out uh finally the Boulder Boulder Reservoir um outside of operating hours we did increase the cost 10% over 2023 rates um but we did want to highlight that we still are not at the full 100% cost recovery that the fee policy calls for um we are planning to do a phase in implementation to get up to the um hourly rate based on our expenses and that's calculated each year looking at just what at what the direct expenses are to operate a facility outside of ours so it's not factoring in the 15 lifeguards who are there only during um the typical operating hours sorry question here so the outside of operating hours is that like based on a certain number of Youth

[34:00] like I don't understand how you're calculating the break even yep um outside of operating hours is exclusive use for the facility so um the rowing user groups is who you've heard from the most about this uh they are choosing to practice outside of the operating hours of the reservoir the reservoir closes at 6 PM um both nights um so if they wanted to use the facility after 6 p.m. when it's closed to the general public this is the rate that they would pay per hour so each adult pays $200 this is for as many people as they bring so hourly rate it's an hourly rate they may have 30 people they might have 80 people the club pay just like someone who rents an athletic field for a youth soccer team got it are there any other questions so on this uh value plan card um I mean what are other similar size

[35:03] Municipal courses um charging for their similar passes $100 increase sounds I I'm sure you guys are right that this is like below Market we're double checking our Market comparison so okay if you can give us that just sounds that's a pretty big increase 100 bucks um just round I guess so but you have to play 30 30 rounds is a lot of goal to break also based on the fact that we increased that t nine so it's kind of a dominal effect yeah as definely saying the price per round for all rounds basically went up $2 a round um so okay we are seeing price increases across the board um there is a bit higher of an increase um if I go back to this slide 23 to 24 we're looking at

[36:01] a $3 around increase two to3 around increase yeah I get that I'm just saying like that it makes sense to to multiply the increase per round in this way but if you look at it from like if I'm just an annual golfer and and looking at this um new price it just seems like a very large increase I'd be interested to see what happens with our um value passes in the next year like I don't think we should stop the presses on this at all I just wanted to note that like that seems like a large increase to me I'd be interested to see if it has any impact to see if we you know people are if we have fewer buyers from that and if we don't then you know just to give some um perspective on this and doing the market research at our local municipalities um they're looking at anywhere from ,300 to $3,000 annually

[37:01] for a pass but this is a value plan not an annual right what I'm looking at the five 599 to $6.99 um that is a little higher and what's our annual pass again our annual pass is um 1,200 that's I mean I I guar this seems re able to me if you look at the 700 bucks for the value pass it's just like to go from 600 to 700 in one year is it's a big increase so I'd be interested to see how that how people react to that because it strikes me a lot my Rec is this is 48 householders total um but we're not talking huge okay absolutely monitor this looking at some of the other capping at 20 rounds um $650 plus $6 per round with a cap at 20

[38:01] rounds golf 625 for 20 rounds week day only 480 for 20 rounds nine holes so you guys got any feedback in the past about the price that exists now like oh it's too high or oh this is cheap cheap cheap I bet some perspective if we were to do limit it to just 10% there's two challenges one is that we are we are well below market with the golf course and it is an area where we we for some reason that's been a historic threshold of that's manageable and oh that's some sticker shock and it's been I mean it's been that way you know it's kind of been that's the way we've done it it's inflation in the last four years really encourages us to push against that notion and I think this is an area where I I agree with you it does feel like a lot and it's the right thing to do um we

[39:00] certainly can look at even just quarter over quarter numbers but I I would also look if we look at golf course goals is the goal to have a lot of value pass holders is the goal to have like what is what are our goals and it's that it's accessible that that people can play there so what I think I hear you saying is is no don't stop the presses but we should monitor it yeah I mean it just I think that um definitely let's press forward with it I'd be interested to see what the impact is um I don't want to compromise um the revenue of the course right so if we're talking about a low number of value pass holders now um if it's like let's say 50 to use a round number and it goes down to 40 you know should that give us pause um if it stays the same okay fine you know let's we we got it right um but I would hate for us over the next year to lose um value card holders because people are like oh my God that's a huge number um or that's a big increase um but we'll see can I I

[40:01] wonder in Step please time in if I think's another thread to consider in that the more annual pass and Value Pass folders the less tea times are available I am hearing a lot from um the teen population in household these days and even though I don't have a young golfer in my house I hear that like getting on the golf course is hard and so there is a there is an impact to having folks out there playing at a discounted rate a lot and I know one of the things Tom is trying to balance we limit how many annual passes we sell at the golf course nowhere else because of the fact that we want T times to be available for other folks and so any analysis of um pickup on value passes should also be considered with how are tea times filling how are the age groups the different age groups using because I don't think the value pass is available for youth because they're already highly discounted so perhaps we would see more youth youth tea times because there's more tea time availability and I that'd be hard to prove causation right but I just we don't want to look at and Tom is

[41:01] excellent at this at not looking at just any one variable of usage and looking at okay how what is the if there's an ecosystem of course play that's that's what he's looking at yeah that makes a lot of sense if we're if we're taking slots away from you know the the team golfer or the CU golfer whoever you know college student young adults whatever um then yeah I mean these value cards should be more expensive I'd be just interested to see how this price shift impacts all of that we'll definitely monitor it I have a question about the reservoir rates do we uh I feel like it's easier to quantify the cost of R golf but we have a sense of like how the 170 and $213 fees will land with the rowing community and also with the of Master fers they've

[42:01] already been presented this these numbers and they're very pleased okay um they were happy the increase wasn't higher they were anticipating a higher number there so I think overall they're they're pretty happy correct and with that said we also are trying to phase them in so that they are back up to market value what I have heard I'm thinking of the lasta we had from the um Folks at Boulder Community Rowing they know that the real cost is 284 and I think we had said last year we're going to go there so the cost per hour if we were charging full cost recovery would be 284 they're still benefiting from a 25% discount and they're grateful for that they continue to be concerned about the full cost recovery and the costs of Parks and Recreation and intend to advocate for more subsid and and discounting for Parks and Recreation so I don't think that um while they're they're pleased that that we've limited the discount they know that we continue to be under pressure to recover cost that we have

[43:01] very limited subsidy and that it's not being applied for adult Recreation so um I think that the conversation is going to continue about how Recreation is funded in our community and how subsidy is used thank you does the fee schedule and I apologize for me but it's just presented last week last month but does the fee schedule contemplate the like dockage fees for boats stored in the reservoir yes do we saw increases across the board for all of those we have a few different categories we have um dry Moorings wet moins and then depending on what type of lot you're parked on is it a gravel lot or is it a pig lot so what are the road shells P the what pi the road shells they are on page 40 of your packet thank you and the um rowers their fee is not on here that I see so per spot for a small craft there

[44:00] is a fee um Stephanie tell me if I'm corrected on page 40 but I believe that Boulder Community Rowan rowing has um they have purchased and built some racks at the boulder Reservoir and they pay for the spot that it is in so they do not pay for I'm going to make up numbers there are 10 shells in a rack they're not paying for 10 spots they are paying for the parking space or the Spade of the a lot that that if that rack is in does that make sense there's a line on here for rack uh $300 for a resident that would apply to small craft spot it's not the full yes so you have eight shells on rack or div and I don't know for their specific fee I know it's in the agreement and I think Stephanie's typing furiously to find it they get a significant discount on storage so they pay for a spot and they can go vertically as high as they want with as many votes as they they as high as go ahead go ahead it's how many spots the rack holds like I'm I'm going

[45:02] to um like eight or something like that yes correct but your that $300 gets you the whole Rack or it gets you one spot in a rack if I had a kayak and I wanted to store it at the boulder Reservoir I would pay $300 thank you they are paying a different fee that is based on the space that the rack that they have purchased and built is is they're basically renting the land that on you will so they can go higher what's that they can rent the land and build something taller and put more stuff on it um I don't think it would pass wind code so probably not there's a pretty standard design that you build for these these racks they're they're fairly pricey I don't remember the last one we bought they're I don't want to make up numbers they're they're ,000 you to pull it up so going too high is not as see does that get to your question

[46:01] Bernie yeah it does but I just note that like if we're charging we have a rack that let's say holds eight kayaks and each of those kayakers is paying $300 a year it seems like we're actually making more money on a piece of land than we are off a motorboat that's paying 7665 right what tell me more about the question well Ira takes up let's just equivalent to about as much space as a trailer right and for argument sake we'll say that a RQ holds eight watercraft so we're we're collecting 3 * $800 sorry 8 * $300 on that piece of ground right or I misunderstand what you said 70 are you are we talking individual or are we still on user user proofs individual so the individuals would pay 300 yes and that's based on the market fee for where you would store that somewhere that is not right adjacent to

[47:00] the body of water okay so you're paying for convenience okay want to make the point that it does seem like we as a city are making more money on that piece of ground off of eight kayakers that we would off of one motorer is that tell me if I'm misunderstanding but know you are I guess I'm trying to understand what your point is what's the what's the and so like those the fees are based on an analysis of the market rate for storage that's so maybe that's the disconnect they're not B they're based on what is the market rate for storage and what should we be charging for this fully exclusive individual service like there's no Community benefit for boat storage so we charge the prevailing market rate okay is that uh that's fine I guess I would I I'm looking at it through slightly different lenss which is like how much revenue are we bringing in for each square foot of ground at the

[48:00] reservoir just for compar saying Union reservoirs 500 $490 uh for the season for a resident and $1,074 for a non-resident or for uncovered nonmotorized they don't allow power votes a s v or and then most private storage facilities in Boulder are 100 plus a month okay all right well thank you there's a philosophical question there that I'm hearing in your brain that maybe we could talk about more sometime I mean the fee policy the word this is the numbers the words of the fee policy this is categorized Jackson would you that chart is that in the back pocket slide somewhere um boat storage is classified as a one one's charge monthly one's charge seasonally and one requires us purchasing a rack and one doesn't I'm thinking of in the um fee

[49:00] policy of point of sale items are full cost recovery as is as is I mean an item like this the idea is that that you are I mean I guess I've said it's it's around what is the market rate for that service because it's not something we're providing to achieve our mission sure okay any other questions or comments okay um we have next steps listed uh Communications and sorry I just I want to appreciate Stacy and the amount of information in the various you can see we're getting information from seven different service areas and different fee types and that she has it all just there is very impressive a whole lot of research um I really appreciate all of the questions and comments you have had um I think that this is great to realize the improvements with uh future

[50:00] iterations of the policy the schedule um I think this is the first step in cap accreditation it's the first time we've really um put this in one document one place and we're very excited about it that being said I am the first to admit it's not perfect and we're coming back to you next year with uh revisions to both the fee policy and the Fe schedule um what we're asking you for tonight is really the approval to um go ahead and work with City manager's office to get this puzzl and fees into effect for 2024 the city manager rule does allow for us to do uh discounted rates at the uh for promotions director's discretion Etc that um I don't want you to feel as if uh we're stuck in locked into this for a full year um if we realize that there's a huge mistake that we need to adjust um that being said uh we have done a whole lot of communications and engagement about it the fee policy is on our website we have reached out to several years user groups as Scott mentioned um our biggest user groups in terms of volume space that they're

[51:00] booking dollar amount that we receive on an annual basis um and then we uh have shared this in the recreation program guide uh with registration open next week um so the fee schedule um was included in your packet as attachment B we are hoping that uh you approve it in its current state and we can go through the uh city manager wle uh with all of those going into effect on Jan 1 we do recognize that there's more work to be done so the recreation service fees will continue to be updated through the um Service delivery model and then in 2024 we will come back to you with um another policy on deposits refunds cancellations discounting um and then updates to both the commercial use and special events program so with that we do have a suggested motion before you but are open to any other questions or feedback that you have um prior to caring public comment so any further questions on the

[52:00] presentation content of it um I just had a question about the little paragraphs that you showed at the beginning where you identified which groups were going to get discounted these yes I don't know if you want to like um include kind of strategy or like say like diversity Equity inclusion or what are the principles that led you to identify those groups us prioritizing the youth older adults people with disabilities and low community members was P 2022 perks migration plan um in that the statistically valid survey that went out to all community members indicated that older residents as a whole felt that those um individuals should receive the greatest amount of subsidy or tax dollars um based on what's available we do receive a general fund subsidy in about 1.6 million a year

[53:02] and we try to allocate those subsidies out you will see within the fee schedule we have discounted rates for youth compared to adults um with our Rex under passes we do provide um volume based discounts in addition to age-based discounts um we offer the financial aid program which does provide um completely free access to all individuals um that I have a qualifying um eligibility so that's how we would continue to prioritize any further questions for Jackson okay The Next Step will be to hear public comment on this topic and I think we have there m who's been patiently waiting I hope and just just a minute you'll be allowed to turn on your microphone and you should be able to

[54:00] now yes I'm still here great thanks and let's get the timer going okay now you can uh go ahead and start Larry excellent thank you hello pre my name is Larry moio I've been a boulder resident for 33 years and an aid user of city parks and rec services for over 20 been interacting with the parks and rec staff for the better part of the last 15 years my comments tonight are related to 2024 Fe schedule in tonight's background regarding the fees and operating hours at the reservoir it states the access to the boulder Reservoir is identified as an individual benefit and based on fee policy must meet or exceed 100% cost recovery since late 2022 aquatic groups such as Boulder aquatic Masters and the various rower groups have engaged with prab in the city Clarks and Rec staff regarding the fees and operating hours out at the reservoir challenging this perception aquatic user groups using the reservoir are a passionate portion of the older community oriented around a common interest they managed to organize themselves and self-support healthy

[55:01] behaviors that align and support the first four key themes of the BPR master plan those being Community Health and Wellness Financial sustainability taking care of what we have and building community and relationships at last month's meeting proud meeting that is director Road said we don't have funding to expand ours they're simply just isn't funding to provide all the services to the city members as such The Aquatic user groups are also subjected to an outside operating hourly entrance cost of $213 which we just heard about this still does not meet or exceed the cost recovery Target Boulder aquatic Masters host hosts Open Water swims every Tuesday and Thursday throughout the summer our volunteers have expended over 500 hours this past year getting trained setting up for each swim guarding registering the participants and ensuring the overall safety of our events we drew in nearly 1,500 entrance paying swimmers to the early morning LLY utilized operating hours and that's direct Revenue to the reservoir and I

[56:01] just received a thank you in the spirit quote of Thanksgiving from one of the Open Water swimmers three months after the summer swims other feedback includes having swims that are the highlight of people's weeks I could go on these efforts are the Highlight for a lot of people access to the boulder Reservoir should not be universally labeled as an individual benefit where the user groups are operating in alignment to augment the city services at no cost to the city meeting or exceeding the 100% cost recovery should also be questioned contrast the Aquatic User Group situation with my wife and I being out at the reservoir last Friday for two and a half hours on our paddle boards it was a glorious afternoon for the individual benefit we paid nothing thank you thank you Larry uh there there any comments from prb or staff on Larry's

[57:01] comments um I just want to say I really appreciate his continued uh voice in this conversation he is such a dedicated Community member and every single time he talks I listen very closely and I really appreciate his perspective on his continued uh perspective on this issue um every month so thank you so much again okay thank you so at this point uh it's up to prb to discuss the um suggested motion so I will um would anyone care to make the motion using the language that will be those up on the screen right now and then we can do discussion after the motion we do the discussion after the motion and second before the vote for the hand which you know very well so I'll entertain a motion uh

[58:02] following this language is this the language we're supposed to use yes that is not the Lang would you were supposed to use I don't think so no it's um on 17 of your page 23 has this motion language on it very good but it reads the same as that oh dear well let's uh let's get in there and let's write a motion we can do this freestyle yeah yeah this is how they do it in Council meetings we got this um yeah I mean we can do you want me to just try yeah go for it I like having an

[59:01] attorney in the room well yeah um motion to adopt attachment B proposed parks and recreation department fee schedule for fee setting for 2024 and direct staff to publicly notice the 2024 fee updates pursuant to the boulder Revised Code section a28 well that was pretty close we're just all reading it wrong well I just added the yeah there you go is there a second to the motion second but I'm not gonna repeat it okay we have a motion in a second so um what I like to do is Step through every member of prab and see what comments you have we've heard a lot about the fece schedule over the last several months and i' like to get your feedback if you have any you don't feel obligated to make a comment but if you have a comment on the process or the contents of it uh please go ahead and we'll start over here with Elliot and work our way around the table

[60:01] and thank you Mr chair I just want to say first of all that this was I this is obviously a big lift so those of you who are responsible for putting this together my kudos to you I mean this is really really well done um I think we've highlighted some questions and you know uh issues that we want to monitor over the next year as we implement this for the first time um but that's part of the public policym process right like you you start somewhere and then you grow from it and but I think we're starting in a really great place and we're not going to please everybody with this but we have to have a policy that maximizes Community benefit and I think that we have done so here um and I really want to commend staff for their really hard work on this this is really impressive um yes I agree I also appreciate the um commitment to consistency and

[61:01] transparency of the fees um as well as a commitment to inclusion of lowincome um community members that might not be likewise I appreciate all the work that staffs been into this and um looking forward to seeing how it goes over the next year and sunny do you have any comments from your online position nothing to add I just want to agree with the comments that have already been made really appreciate all the hard work thank you um I think this is an essential document you know we were setting fees on somewhat of an ad hoc basis in the in the past and I think it's really essential to set down the policy that's underlying those fee changes because it it provides a target for people to make changes right if if if they wanted to make changes before they were arguing each individual fee at

[62:01] a time but now we can see why the fees are being charged how how that's being decided on and if there're disagreement on that we have a way to change it and so I think it's a really important document it certainly Al also helps the department get its accreditation right which is very useful as well but that's not the primary motivation here the primary motivation is to have a transparent document that the public can access to understand why the fees are set they are and it's important because Boulders fees are set differently than other fees in the the county and in the in the area and they're they're higher in many cases and that's because of the way the Department's funded and so H having this very transparent document I think will help not deflect but help help the public understand why the fees are what they are so I think I think it's great um I think we can have quibbles about um some of the details of the exact numbers that are come up that that you've come up with on these uh on this year's Fe

[63:00] schedule but um um I think we need to see how like things with the golf you know the golf access fees this the discount fees we have to see how they how they pan out over the next year and how the public react to them so yeah I think it's a great job so thank you all for your hard work are there any further comments from the board okay at this time I think we need to vote and so this will be a uh a roll call vote aoll call vote ready Sunny vanderstar yes Andrew Bernstein yes Anna Seager yes Chuck Brock hi Elliot Hood

[64:02] yes thank you congratulations we've passed the fee scheduled of sorry the fee policy and he's good yeah all right I get back to my agenda apologize there we go um we have a second action item and that is uh public hearing consideration of a motion to authorize the city manager to enter into an agreement with tan tanoa tanoa tanoa tanoa Inc covering a full service restaurant at fight irons golf course just a sec I'll start well I'll kill some time um Stephanie Monroe Regional facilities manager is going to present this item and I I um I didn't get a chance to gush on the incredible work of the fee policy and the fee schedule but you all are spot on and it

[65:00] is a huge lift and when I look at what's documented I don't know how we've operated forever without it like it's um it's going to be helpful it helps in conversations I so um this this agreement and the process that this team has led to identify someone to help us really Foster an incredible community space has been so well done and it's so exciting um and if you haven't been to toi to meet Tanya and Noah I hope you go check it out they're a local couple they operate to Gabi and North Boulder um this is very exciting Stu can take get from there all right well thank you Ally um hold on I'm trying you've got your notes in here you had it up yeah you look perfect yeah I think you can see them you can see that we can't up there okay yeah yeah the ones to BU anyway um okay again my name is Stephanie Monroe Recreation senior

[66:00] manager of uh Regional facilities um and I'm back here this evening to share the flat irons Golf Course cont uh contractor agreement for your consideration of the Pratt's approval this evening um and again I want to shout out real quickly Tina Briggs is at the end of the the long table here um senior project manager um of this project she's an incredible person and she's keeping us on track so thank you for all of down there um and I have to at least shout out to Tom Buzby and Jake Jacobs um and the rest of the crew at the golf courts uh for their continued support of keeping operations going and their patience um through the construction of the project and then of course my good friends here Allison and Scott for the continued support um of this project um go ahead next slide thank you as I discussed at last month's meeting uh this new facility will fulfill the

[67:01] vision outline in the Parks and Recreation Advisory board approved concept plan which outlines that Community focused restaurant um to appeal to the surrounding neighborhoods um and then again as that reminder in 2021 city council cified to benefit restaurants in our regional parks by making them a bught use code um and and the restaurant facility goals include that this relationship with our proposed tenants uh to NOA providing concession Services um as well as a full service restaurant operated throughout the year at Fon Golf Course um where the restaurant will provide food Beverages and opportunities for private and special events um supporting that Community Based programming and event coordination at the golf course and this opportunity allows tanila to pursue uh that liquor license um go ahead the following slide we're

[68:01] going to talk about uh your the comments so thank you um okay so during last month's discussion prep asked if the liability coverage was adequate for the facility's perimeter to offer the on-site sales and consumption of alcohol and I did um have an opportunity to sit back down with the city attorney's office uh to talk about that as well as checked in with our senior senior risk manager um both confirmed that the coverage was adequate and complete so um they did not have a concern but thank you for for letting us reread that um and then PR also asked about menu and logo and um at a recent meeting with Noah and Tanya um they have confirmed that they are working on a logo and and updating a menu we just don't have it yet so I will certainly share that uh with the pr uh in the coming months as get closer to grand opening Stephie they're not seeing us on

[69:01] Zoom be roast thank you one moment please we're getting all of your notes on here but uh oh okay well we're almost done okay so next steps um we're here this evening for the consideration of approval of the tanela Inc contract agreement at plan go course upon proud's approval uh the agreement will appear in at the December 7th city council meeting uh which uh City council with City council's approval of the agreement we'll work on Gathering um signatures and routing the contract so that they

[70:01] can proceed with the lior licensing process and then finally we're anticipating a grand opening um hopefully the uh spring late spring early summer of 2024 next slide um staff requests the proud's consideration of this m matter in action after of course public comment um and discussion um in this listed motion right and um I have one more SL so you forget because I have some updated pictures as of last week to see F pictures so that is it for me any questions any questions for stanie what is the ter voice the what what the five year thank you five year plus five so correct renewable renewable after five for another five

[71:02] and this will have to be approved by city council so any any firm that's longer than three years has to be approved by city council correct if three years are shorter we could approve it and it wouldn't go to City C dny do you have any comments or questions um I'm just really excited about I I love no and Tanya and enjoy their food so I'm I'm excited about this partnership right well do you want to uh read the motion so that then we'll get a second sure great is the are the is the oh I'm sorry public comment there go ahead I don't see the wording I'm supposed to read you just make it up oh okay I motion I motioned to

[72:00] approve okay well we'll have someone who can read the the text make the motion thank you I will make the motion uh a motion to approve relase and agreement between the city of Boulder parks and recreation department and tenoa and to authorize the city manager to make minor amendments prior to or during the term of this agreement in order to ensure that the flat irons Golf Course food and beverage restaurant is managed in a manner that is consistent with applicable laws and the policies and regulations of the city of Bon is there a second second right okay any further discussion among crab of of this lease agreement I agree with sunny that um I think they're great a great company to have a really good restaurant and I hope they have a fun menu and I think they'll be successful yes I don't have any concerns about it can I call out that because this is going to city council we are there they

[73:01] are going to be very curious for your input we've summarized it on page 48 of the memo what we heard in your discussion last month and how we've responded and so I would just um if we could take two seconds to make sure that that we captured your input and the response accurately because that's how we're going to convey it to city council and based on what I'm hearing tonight perhaps We'll add a sentence that says oh no we've said you support the agreement and are enthusiastic about it so we'll we'll highlight that again so I I'll read what you said here just perfect thank you um The Parks and Recreation Advisory Board reviewed the lease at the October regular meeting the board generally supported the agreement and expressed enthusiasm for the benefits of this partnership the board was also curious to understand how this agreement reflects Lessons Learned for the partnership of the boulder res award and the importance of strong public private Partnerships to achieve Community goals that Shar improvements made to the management plan Communications with stakeholders and neighbors and the utilization of the Colorado group as consultants throughout

[74:00] the process as part of the discussion a member of the board inquired about the insurance requirements outline of the agreement staff reviewed with colleagues in the city attorney's office and risk management and are comfortable with the liability and mendance and staff recommends the motion for PR's approval does that summarize our input to city council great I feel it does your M good job okay there's no further discussion we'll take a roll call thank you syy vanderstar yes Andrew burin yes FY G yes Chuck Brock hi Elliot Hood thank you great you one more slide there this is just as of last um week right

[75:04] before oh maybe sorry last the next SL it's not okay well never mind uh we can get that back up there if if she can if not I had some pictures there they are so it's going up quick and it's probably I haven't been on site this weekend that's tomorrow so how's the water puming going it's gone it's removed thank goodness you're going to need walls um yeah so it's it's it's beautiful um I the the picture that's looking out on the FL ir and that's directly looking out where the pack be so that one on the right side upper right and then the upper left is the back side of it and then that front that bottom is the front side of the and there are no more cles on Rao two3 of the parking lot has been returned for gol course um and there's a

[76:00] new path that's actually um between the parking lot and the temporary Pro Shop so they're not having to go all the way around the building any longer do you have to hike to get to the pro shop however the the Pro Shop is now in a trailer so our friends at the golf course are operating out of a trailer so be kind if you go see them if you see anyone who works at the golf course please like buy them a donut or something because less than $50 this team if you if you had been out there in the last two months certainly if you driven down a rapo you've seen the comes but if you've been at the site you've seen what they've been navigating on The Daily they're adjusting tea times and availability based on the construction impact of the parking lot they're dealing with golfers who want to know you know how things they are and they're they're keeping their cool and doing a really great job and it's it's really impressive um I saw you got money for three electric vehicles charging station so congratulations on that that's great a lot of money is that three in addition to what we had planned for it

[77:02] is not so the grant was just it it it added to what we were already going to put in right it helped decrease the bill for all of the water pumping that we had to do through just free toast now okay um I think that's it for Action items uh we'll move on to matters for discussion information we have facility evaluation the updated annual process this item has been an incredible joint effort by both um senior managers Stephanie mro and Megan I think they're presenting this to we need to double check to make sure people online can see this Rosa I'm sharing but you brought your screen instead of so I think you need to choose a different window to share just back up real we have 30 seconds to do

[78:00] that SL but head Sunny we want to make sure you can see all the presentations that are being put up I appreciate it take a looks like are you missing all the other stuff pardon me were you missing the other presentations or did was it just the last bit that you were missed no I was watching it all I just didn't see the the wording I was supposed to read oh okay all right thank you ready

[79:05] yeah um okay so again hello again and thank you uh this I joined with uh pa uh senior Recreation manager Megan lman over here to my right and again myself Stephanie Monroe uh we're here presenting to the proud the high season customer satisfaction facility evaluation of the bowler Reservoir and the Scott CER pool um I will like to thank Chris patelli who I believe is will be helping us out online um a big shout out to Chris he's Business Service analysts he has helped tremendously with the the data collection the launching of the um questionnaire um the an analysis of the questionnaire um and as well as helping us with the presentation and the memo that we is me packet this evening so thanks to him and then um Stacey Cole bowler reservoir uh supervisor and then

[80:01] Tim Sai uh ftic supervisor uh for their continued leaderships in these two service service areas next slide you have a chance there okay so to provide some background of this process starting in 2019 the boulder Reservoir began conducting a more formal way of to capture Community engagement and to inform operational adjustments for the Reservoir High season along with this guidance of the of the reservoir plan and the department plan staff launched an after action review process which started with a stakehold holder questionnaire that uh we uh began post High season uh the Adaptive management principles listed here on the slide were applied and this is known as a three-pronged approach um we've involving Community engagement applying industry standards and research and then developing policy we use this approach as well as the Boulder parks

[81:00] and recreation Service delivery model industry best practices and initiatives outlined through the Boulder parks recreation plan to help guide decisions um in 2022 this process was expanded to include Scott Scott Carpenter pool as part of the services conducted in the High season and then for this year in 2023 staff uh We've streamlined and clarified the after action review process to better alignment a standard facility evaluation and consistency using the service delivery model next slide so the boulder Reservoir included specific questions pertaining to the main building sustain the I'm sorry the sustainability program and small water craft permits um at the main building this past season the reservoir staff offered limited con concessions Monday through Sundays um this year we putting questions specifically around um offering on-site food Beverages and

[82:02] services at the reservoir and from the results of the questionnaire we found that most are open to Food Services from the main building about 45% um supported alcohol sales however respondents were fairly split on on whether or not the service should be only offered open or closed um container and there was clear preference of emphasizing local or craft offerings if alcohol were to be sold for the 2024 25 season staff are planning on posting an R fee to attain a concession ER this will bridge the gap between that development of a reservoir management plan I think Jackson referred to it as operations plan and I think this guy over here and I are considering a management plan so that is slated for our Capital Improvement projects for 2024 um outlined as as a special project that we'll be working on this plan will include an updated vision for the main building to best support the needs of

[83:01] the reservoir as a regional facility for the broader community so help answer those questions um our sustainability are highlighting the continued multimodal visits in 2022 the discounted sustainability interest entrances accounted for a reduced gate revenue of 46,000 um we um in 2023 that BPR absorbed a revenue reduction of about 52,000 we still believe that this is a valuable program um and we support the city climate's goals uh this area will be part of of an alternative programs assess with that future Reservoir management plan as well to help us um just guide and ask those questions and then finally our small watercraft uh is considered one of the reservoirs waterbased core Services providing recreational opportuni ities for the community and the regional area um BPR staff we offered 1,700 season passes which sold out in 3 days as opposed to

[84:02] 24 hours as they've done in the previous Seasons um and the 1500 weekday permits did not sell out this year um staff are keeping a close eye on the trends of the small water craft programs um in the region and have carefully assessed permit sales for this next season and therefore plan to offer that unlimited number of weekday small watercraft permits and 2,000 season small watercraft permits we're gonna we'll have time for questions but I'm gonna um launch it back over to um Megan so she can talk about Scotty hit the next slide when you get a second there Rosa all right so Scott Carpenter um you know this is only our second year doing the facility evaluation like this for stock Carpenter and and the first year was kind of the the streamlined approach

[85:00] um this is only the third year of really operating Scott Carpenter um since the renovation and just some some notes Here was also the first summer we probably got as close as we've ever been to fully staff for such a crazy facility it takes about 20 lifeguards every operational hour when you're operating the Leisure Pool and the lap pool together with all the features going so it is an undertaking um and so a lot of the questions this year we asked are we're about really determining what is the community um most wanting at the facility what should we prioritize should we be faced with limited Staffing or if we can offer more than we do now where should we focus that time and energy and you can kind of see from uh the graphs here the lazy river is definitely the most popular feature so uh as we let's say it's it's bad weather we we don't have a lot of people there we need to send some guards home um we're going to prioritize definitely

[86:00] that Lazy River uh first and foremost as far as features in the Leisure Pool um the shallow area and play structures also really high up there and the drop slide and Diving platform so we learned a lot about what are what are the things that really kind of attract and when people are made to make a choice right pick only three what do you really want to pick um and then also you know if we could do more what would we like to do and so um we suspect this might be a thing right when there's a lot of people there having that lap pool open for leisure swimming is clearly important to the community um and additionally being able to have more late evening Leisure swim hours uh would be beneficial you know for for family the two working parents bringing their kids after work it gets really hard to come to a Leisure Pool if it's closed at 6 PM during the week uh in the summer right and so that's that's going to be a priority for us to look at as we think how can we expand Services um and additionally when

[87:00] you look at the financial aid um participants who who filled out the survey The Lazy River and uh the late evening Leisure Hours were also very uh popular choices um for for those using financial aid access um not really displayed here but lap pool configuration um Scott Carpenter lap pool is our only 50 m um lap pool and 50 57% of people preferred long course at Scott Carpenter uh versus short course um now that means about 163 people who answered their survey preferred the 25 yard configuration however of those two3 um also signified that they would go to another pool that is in 25 yard configuration whether that be Spruce or an englo pool so so those are just a few of the highlights for Scott Carpenter uh but when you really think about what are we doing here if you go to the next slide there Rosa um this is really what

[88:03] we're sharing with you is about how we're doing this evaluation process in the future so we wanted to highlight some of the things about the reservoir and Scott Carpenter but this is really how do we do uh facility evaluations how do we make sure that we're constantly evaluating not only our services through the service delivery model but our facil ities to ensure that we're providing the best service to the community whether that be in a building um an outdoor pool a reservoir or anything across our system and so uh as far as our next steps for this year's evaluation well we definitely if we're going to ask the community for information we want to make sure we share those results back with the community this is one step in that um sharing the results from the survey um writing up the memo with the highlights but also um you know the uh the the Raw results also included in in the packet Additionally you know we need to share that out with the general public

[89:00] especially those who did complete the survey what are we doing with this information right that matters otherwise why are we asking the questions um it's clear that we need to improve how how we're doing the assessment of our facilities to ensure more Equitable representation so in the packet you may have noticed um that financial aid participants only accounted for about 4% of the survey uh uh Sur people who participated in the survey however if you look at all of our pass types and everything um financial aid passholders are about 20% of our total population who use our facilities and in the summer they accounted for 7% of the total use of faciliity so that's a that's a big under representation we need to do better there and so for this year we know we need to work with our um our city manager's office our our Equity experts here to see how can we get additional information to inform the things that we can for even next season

[90:00] but then also how do we in our future um evaluations uh ensure that we're making the most accessible not only facilities but platform for people to be able to share um so we acknowledge that's really important and we need to we need to find a way to do better to get Equitable representation um additionally this community engagement is only a portion of how we make operational decisions and so using the the data that we have access to and the research what is best practice um what does our usage look like all of this goes into um along with the community engagement and our policy to help us determine what are those operational changes we might make in the future um how how do we make slight adjustments to just continually move the bar forward and and what I think is really great and vitally important about what we did here is this was the first year

[91:00] that we really said if we were going to do this evaluation process for every facility that we manage whether it be a re Center or the golf course or the reservoir or Scot Carpenter um how do we model this evaluation process to help give us some things that are benchmarks across our um our services uh but also allow specialty for us to focus in on what are the operational changes that we really need to make in different areas or that we know our hot button items for the community and so we've we've really streamlined it and our hope is to continue to align this facility evaluation model with our service delivery model and create an ongoing structure of how we continuously evaluate our facilities uh not just the reservoir and stock Carpenter but we want to expand that to be system wide and so this is kind of our next step in that process uh and we're excited to continue to do work on this and in the

[92:00] future years um additionally uh when there are big operational changes it does sometimes require us to come to you separately for that thing right and so um this presentation is not about us bringing you um every operational change from every facility so that you can weigh in on everything right a lot of the operational decisions that we make again it's based on these three pillars here um however when there is something like a lease agreement for instance what Stephanie was just talking about um we do sometimes separately come to you uh for a higher level of engagement on those items and so and Stephanie unless I missed anything from your perspective uh we do have a couple of questions for you just to help inform this process in the future and so uh does the pr have any questions on the results of the facility value question for this season and do you have any questions or guidance for the development of a future allinclusive facility evaluation

[93:04] process were there any um results that showed that there were aspects of Scott Carpenter pool or the reservoir that people want to see fixed or changed we saw a lot of you know one of the things that people like the most but were there any results show that hey there's this one feature that people just don't like or a lot well I mean it depends on how to how granular you get the data right so we have what 956 responses total um for the the survey and so what we pulled out for you in this presentation is is really small and it's the highlights things that we said okay that uh that makes sense to share it's you know there is granular feedback um with the qualitative data right like like if someone shares a comment that we are going to use and take and we've read it but one comment we don't necessarily share out with

[94:00] everyone but we have heard it and we do use that feedback and so we try to ask questions that help look at ourselves critically uh but as far as like what are we going to report out on it's hard to report out on every single one of those comments so we've we've pulled out the highlights from that um but we do see um you know pieces of uh critical commentary and things like that that help us be better um whether it be about the check-in experience or um safety breaks right uh but if it's one one comment it's not necessarily one that we're going to put on a a PowerPoint slide if that makes sense but we do read every single one of those no that makes sense and then um how are you prompting people to fill out this survey so this year we uh we sent out our email blast we had have a ongoing list of aquatic users and we also posted signs with QR codes at the facilities um I knowing how the results came out and

[95:03] knowing how seasonal of the facilities that we operate are and how likely people are to come just a couple of times over the year as a regional facility for the reservoir or as I mean really Scout Carpenter the way it is is almost water park more than it is just your neighborhood pool anymore um I I think we have an opportunity and through maybe the length of time that people can provide feedback and the the the modes of feedback um but I think you know I I can't think of the other ways that we did it besides email and flyers and so emailed the major user groups um and then any any parts of a that signed up for um either facility got it ored an email blast and reminders to to follow the survey have you asked people like what draws them to those facilities not just like what are the things they like about those facilities but like what actually brings them there that might be helpful just to

[96:01] understand like what what are the real like what are the real benefits to the community of these places because if I'm a parent with a little kid you know I'm going to go because of the play structure in Shallow areas not the lap pool we asked that question actually um previously in the after action review specifically to the boulder Reservoir but um that could be something that consider um putting into the common questions um in the future years to to get to receive that data of what why did you choose this facility yeah and we did ask yeah we did ask like what type of user are you like did you just visit for the day and we also asked what I'm trying to find the exact wording because it says the resir questions must got C your questions um we asked a version of that question but I don't think you can said exactly what you're saying I just think might be helpful data yeah did you do any intercept surveys were you approach people who

[97:00] were at the reservoir and or was this all self this done this is actually done for before our flank season as complet it so we launch it right after um as close to the after the high the high season ends but also allows a little bit of a a a two we period of into the flank season because we do ask we want to asked I we ask questions pertaining to the flank Seasons um but we don't want to wait until that's over because by the time that we're talkinging November and most people that have used Scotty or the reservoir probably are now thinking about Christmas and not swimming at a pool so we wanted to make sure that we had that timing right between the two facilities and and the end of the season I'm I guess I'm asking more if these are self- selected responses as opposed to being a little more randomized yeah and I think there's there's room to improve that right and when you talk about uh Scott Carpenter I can't speak for the reservoir on this one but about 50% of the users at Scott Carpenter might come in and drop in pay a daily fee and so I have no way of

[98:02] knowing if someone who dropped in in July when it was 100 degrees decided to come back in August when we actually offered the survey right and so um I I think there's opportunities for us to do a better job of um getting responses from a variety of particip particip yeah um what are some possible strategies that you thought to increase participation from the financial aid recipients in future surveys so it's um I I think sometimes that can be a challenge because you don't you also want to be really thoughtful about not over surveying people or requiring too much from people um and at the same time I think a focus group um would be potentially a good idea I think we have the community connectors that connect us to parts of the community it's not necessarily directly to the financial aid participants right um I

[99:02] think it when we start going systemwide with evaluations we can be more strategic about how we even reach out directly to financial aid participants to try to um not overs survey uh just them for everything but be thoughtful about how are we asking the right questions the right people at the right time and not asking too much of people at the same time so you are going to use the community connectors future I I think I want to be really thoughtful about how we do that so I I don't have an answer for you yet I I do know that I that we want to talk to our um our Equity officers in the in the city to determine what are the best strategies but I am that might that may be a strategy I just I want to be really thoughtful about um what we ask for that because again like you know they only have so much time to

[100:01] answer so many questions so I don't know where it'll fall on the priority list do you offer any like incentives for people to fill out we haven't yet like cards we actually do a raffle I thought we did yeah I think we raffled did it was by so if they wanted to include their name and contact information then they were eligible to win a win a prize um I will say too some of the questions that we asked within the survey um really can drive our marketing efforts so you asked about um how um underserved populations maybe or or um different demographic groups are are getting the information and and um our intent is every question that we ask we want to make sure that we're getting uh information back that we can then turn around and use and so I think from a marketing and communication standpoint that's a a big one for us is how do they hear about us and um and if we're

[101:00] finding that people haven't heard a whole lot um and don't know about the services that we offer that that provides an opportunity for us to expand those services and that communication I know that um Boulder Valley School District they their Equity team learned that a lot of the low income families don't really use email like they're forced to have the emails by the district for the district to send like enrollment information to actually their kids in the school but the it's not like their primary or any type of communication thing that they're checking every day so that they found a lot more benefit from using texting programs to get people to engage like a program where it translates it in real time so that people can I forgot what it's called um talking points that you can like message in whatever your language is and it we'll go to the families in their language that they

[102:02] speak allow you to speak to anybody without an interpreter because it just automatically translat to the did you say it's called talking points thank you for sharing I think that's something we could look into even just as we try to serve people in the facilities and don't always have byful staff members available I have a few questions um I saw that you had a reduction a subsidy of $46,000 or a little less than 50,000 a year for carbing a sustainable discount the rest um that's a fair chunk of money um I guess I like to know what the benefit is you know there are a couple of concerns I have I I'm very much in support of encouraging car pooling to the reservoir and this is in part a response to some my earlier efforts in that direction um

[103:01] but I want to make sure it's it's cost effective and so what really matters is the amount of greenhouse gas emissions reductions per dollar that are produced and I I wonder if you have any way of estimating that you're spending this much money what are you getting for you and and it's money that you're that's not that's coming out of Department's budget because it's a reduction income right so I think you need to look at the at the um cost benefit analysis that and if it's worthwhile doing i' I'd be more in favor of a a parking charge which is additional income that comes to you and doesn't take away from your budget but I know there can difficulties logistically in implementing that um but I would encourage you to think about that in terms of getting additional money in to reduce driving rather than taking money out of your budget to reduce driving so atick rather than a carrot um I also noticed a lot first of all there were so many responses and thank you for including them all I didn't read all of them but I read a

[104:01] bunch and they were pretty entertaining um un recurring comment at the Reser war was goose poop like every other commenter complained about the goose poop and how awful it was is there anything we can do that's reasonable and cable to keep geese from polluting the beach and the other areas I'm sure you've considered things but I I would urge you to mean it's a major complaint by people it's a real turnoff to them so whatever you can do to do that whether it's statues of coyotes like you have out in the stal ball even animatronic you know whatever I I don't know what would work but I encourage you to do it because it's really bothering people obviously and there's something about dream Cove I didn't understand that like it's closed to motor boating and it wasn't before is that because of the mill foil and because of the no wake area so part of the growth of um it hasn't been

[105:01] open to power boats for over a decade oh okay and so that's just an unfortunately an old preference that hasn't died okay um but if you'll remember back the conversations about the tension between power boats and small craft and the power boats are limited to the middle of the lake when they're I mean if they're going to have a no wake they go beyond it but yeah okay I just didn't know what that was referring to so that was a oneoff right that wasn't a common pain comment there were three or four yeah so enough to catch my eye um and then uh when we were talking when we were talking about food options at the row have you considered food trucks that could there I'm sure you have because you consider everything you want to respond to the goose comment and the I can certainly try we do have coyotes a couple of them the statue ones out there we do also have a goose pooper pickuper the

[106:00] pooper that is used often almost every day so that is we do our best advice not a person right correct it's a machine okay and that that at least um helps keep it controllable on the um the swim Beach area um quite honestly if we could have dogs there that probably would get rid of most of the the geese but that isn't something that we're allowed to have the dogs are not allowed during the high season so we do see an up uptick of goose poop um and cleanup efforts um we were staffed adequately this year so there was a larger effort of of of taking care of that um so Staffing capacity would be something that we will continue to look at to be able to get that um apparatus on the beach more often um um or as needed but they they do pick up quite a bit of goose poop as well I don't know if you have anything else to add could you consider train service dogs so the biggest the biggest

[107:01] limiting factor is that all methods to manage geese and Boulder have to be friendly to the to the wildlife so we are a sanctuary City for these these birds they provide incredible value in lots of different ways but at golf courses at ball fields at reservoirs they all conflict with users so anything that is related to dogs is seen as harassment and so while some cities do do that and effectively and you can research there are cities that are um that don't share Boulders value for wildlife where that's what they do they let dogs loose and they you know scare the geese and they run away that's not allowed in Boulder um the the strategies that work are intensely mechanically in intens mechanically meaning like by hand you know you running these machines we try the deterrence um if you so I know this has come up before I love the open water swims at the morning to the reservoir and one time out of two those coyotes scare the crap out of me I forget they're fake um

[108:02] so Beach what's that you might you may or may not recall that that three years ago the city of Denver cold from their geese population because of the challenges um and used the meat to feed um members of their community in need it was not a popular strategy and I'm um I don't think something like that would work in Boulder right like so it's this is an area where we have very competing and conflicting goals that make it really challenging and I know the team um knows it's the number one complaint they hear from people about it all the time and they do what they can if you're at the 00 30 the guards are out closing off the the docks because even though they put out these cones and they wrote like they spend so much time trying to stop it obviously we haven't solved it so I I hope I don't sound offensive and like you know deal with it we know it's an issue and we're constantly trying to figure it out okay so if anyone has Humane ideas we're open

[109:00] to them animatronic coyotes because the Gees get used to the non-moving statues right if you had them with blowing eyes like the uh like Theon and they have like those creepy red eyes May's TR them all to one place yeah Ian remember te considered noise right like some like the noise but then that's also harassing them yeah light you know kind of lays your light flashing around also harassment to just wildlife in general um so there's a lots of considerations too but then you know putting it on them Beyond it's affecting more than the GES too and so you know with those kind considerations it's it's a fun puzzle yeah and then regarding uh your expanding your facility evaluations to broader um I think I would definitely like to see it for the rec centers right I think that'd be really useful and one thing to think about is you know having out of seasonally out of phase reers are most used in winter so you would do your

[110:01] evaluation in spring so that sort of spreads the staff load out a little bit so it's not it's all at one time in the fall kind of well and it also ties Bernie I I think it was your first or second meeting where you asked about the business strategy for the recreation centers recognizing that the volume is still low and that we do and and it is a and I know Megan is all over this it's been a gap in process that we're here to to address any other questions Chuck you had three things you brought up did we address them all the food trucks Oh food trucks and you answered that or talked about that that next year with the the Bas the management plan the operations plan the business plan whatever you call call it we have to figure out what the right answer is out there um we don't feel like we can put out an RFP right now without some more information about the vision that we're trying to achieve that's what's going to happen next year

[111:03] okay my son had worked at the concession stand at fer Reservoir this summer so okay he enjoyed that job and he said that was there was a lot of guests and I think you've had Jimmy Johns come in as a food truck that like in events when they had like the we brought Jimmy Johns in yeah so there was one food truck already there and they had a snake come in one day that oh yeah what I'm sure s he sent me a video of the like like Gars and bathing suits trying to run around get the stink up doesn't surprise me there's snakes out there snakes Okay uh we'll move on to Matters

[112:01] from the Department then so court system plan process and Community engagement findings see um Mike is on talk thanks all right should I go for it okay um well thanks so much for having us and sticking with us to this later part of the agenda my name is Charlotte odonnell I'm a city planner with the boulder H and Recreation Department um so I'm working with Tina on this project the court system plan for tennis and pickle ball um in the city of Boulder and next slide so as outlined in the memo the intent of us being here tonight has a couple prongs one to inform you about updates to the timeline Tina was here in May

[113:00] presenting on this project but there have been some updates since then um and some more specifics on the engagement plan we that we also want to get your feedback on in terms of Engagement and then we want to inform and answer any questions about the results from engagement window one that took place this past October and then we'll share our next step what it looks like as we come to you over the next couple months and have some time for questions at the end so next slide so to jump right into um process this is also in your memo if you want kind of a zoomed in view there's a lot happening on this timeline um so the top in green is really the overall process and the specific deliverables or can think of these kind of like chapters in the final plan um those green boxes along the way then below that is engagement that we'll talk a lot a lot more about out tonight and at the bottom is blue when we are all touching base with you so you'll see that first big um Bubble that says matters November 27th

[114:00] that's that's us right now um and in a moment on the next slide I'll talk more not not yet Rosie you're sorry um I'll talk more about how these three sections kind of all play together um but you can see it really well in this graphic format where that that bubble where we're at tonight matters November 27th Falls right at the end of Engagement window one if I'm up in the pink and that's going to roll up into the deliverable recommend recommendations and priorities and that will be ready by the end of the year that's recommendations on our current court system and our current uh budget that we have approved um and originally we had a hoped to have the entire plan do done by the end of the year however in working with a consultant getting an RFP out um it became pretty clear that that wasn't going to be feasible but we do want those recommendations and priorities in terms of what we can do with our current system and the current budget to still be ready for the 20 24

[115:01] year and then feeding into the 2025 budget cycle um so that is still happening by the end of the year but you'll note then that the final plan is out now um being completed in Spring at 2024 and that's really to give us the time to coordinate appropriately both the consultants and our internal staff teams um especially to get those concept plans that might lay out what what uh future sites with potential additional courts could look like if we're able to identify additional funding or Partnerships so we really want to make sure we're getting those those concept plans um truly vetted and and make sure they're the most useful so that's why you'll see the extension on that timeline so to to go more into the engagement now if I can have you flip to the next slide Rosa awesome so to look at the engagement windows and how they roll up into the different deliverables this

[116:00] engagement window that just happened in October the goal is to was to share a foundation of information and inquiry that is a Citywide term that we use to describe this kind of first launch of a project when we go to the community in this specific project sharing a foundation meant uh understanding our current court system and current experiences being had as well as asking what the general desires were for a future court system so again that just foundational very basic inquiry this will roll up as I mentioned as we were looking at the graphic really into those recommendations and priorities for the current current court system and then it will also work as we develop um the options that's window two the information that we learn in window one will help feed into that window to so looking at window two that will be launched in in February or into March

[117:00] 2024 the goal is to evaluate options again that's the city-wide language we use for all projects um when we're kind of in that middle stage of the project looking at all the possible solutions or potentials that that could be developed um so what will come out of window two what will be shared in window 2 is some example or some potential concept plans and what will come out of window 2 will be a preferred or several preferred concept plans for actual what could happen on site and then window number three commun communicating recommendations so in this this case it's sharing a draft of the final plan including those concept plans including um a a vision for what the whole system and programming looks like and um getting any final comments from you all and from the community before it becomes a final plan so to look at more at prab specific involvement from the next slide and just run over really quickly

[118:01] these are the blue blobs on the bottom of that graphic called out so we were here in May as I mentioned with an overview here tonight with those updates that I just shared and and shortly we'll look more at engagement window number one findings what we heard in January we will be back back and we're going to be sharing the planning evaluation so um what what we learned at looking at all of the data around our court current court system plan as well as a preliminary preliminary vision for some of the future of our court system plan and then in March 2024 we'll be back with even more specifics at the end of window two as I mentioned going to Preferred Alternatives meaning we'll have concept plans that were recommending be part of this plan and in May 2024 back with that final report that includes all of these pieces wrapped up in a nice bat so um Rosa go

[119:02] let me make sure went off my notes you know yeah if you can go the next time you saw this graphic already tonight you know we love it um so we talked a lot about Community engagement and policy that plays into this and I'm excited tonight that we have mik with Pros Consulting who is our Consulting help consultant helping us on this project here with us tonight and he's going to share just a snippet of foundation of research so this third pillar with you tonight and we thought it was important to have Mike here tonight to share this context before we dive into what we've heard in October in Boulder in this window of Engagement so you can see the the bigger picture of pickle ball and Tennis um not just in Boulder but Nationwide so um with that mik I'm going to go ahead and hand it over to you and I think Rosa you can go to the next next slide for him sounds great thank you Charlotte again folks Mike setts principal with Pros Consulting uh happy to uh be

[120:01] virtually there with you tonight um so as Charlotte said this is uh just kind of a quick overview with regards to kind of where pickle ball and Tennis are um in in the country where the trends are and then more specifically uh the results of the uh the question questionnaire uh that yielded well over 1100 uh surveys and uh I think you heard the uh the comments at the beginning I think the comments from um Cliff at the beginning of the meeting uh definitely Echo uh consistently the the results of the survey that you will see so um you know one really quick uh note is that tennis participation has actually jumped quite a bit uh in this country uh it had really been flatlined uh around 17.5 million folks uh participating it's still one of the top 10 actually top five participated Sports in the country um but it had been Flatline for for quite some time and actually since covid

[121:02] uh has continued to to increase pretty exponentially uh and grown by close to Six Million folks um in the last uh you really uh since uh before co uh next slide pickle ball um uh as folks uh you know know well in Boulder has has grown exponentially as well it also has added about six million participants um over the same time period percentage wise simply because uh we're starting with a lower number uh they are uh considered to be percentage wise the uh the fastest growing sport in the country um and they are close to 9 million strong at this point um any uh uh imaginary or shall I say imaginary uh Visions about pickle ball being a uh a fad um or even a a an emerging sport um are in the rearview

[122:02] mirror pickle ball is here it's here to stay uh and uh as soon as it starts to become monetized and capitalized in this country I think you have a pretty good understanding that uh it's not going anywhere uh so pickle ball is here to stay and the growth in this sport has has really indicated that uh in particular over the last five years next slide um just a couple of kind of key trends um you know you know tennis has uh gone through meaningful increase in participation about 5% in the last year uh in terms of tennis um a lot of the participation in the last year has been in the um uh you know youth uh and uh in particular uh the 18 plus uh year old segment um and then the pickle ball participation kind of has hit that inflection point in 2022 uh with the growth accelerating significantly simply

[123:01] meaning it's that kind of growth is not sustainable at this point um simply because of the fact that uh there is not enough courts um to support that kind of growth so we're closely reaching that point with pickle ball where the supply uh or the lack thereof Supply is going to have a significant impact on the demand um you know going forward next slide so just kind of comparing pickle ball to tennis um this just kind of gives you an understanding of where tennis was in 2021 where tennis was in 2022 um as compared to uh you know pickle ball and then of course you do have the paddle platform and pop uh you know Sports as well but you can see the um the overall

[124:03] has started to jump pretty significantly next slide awesome back to me thanks Mike we lost you there for a second but it sounds like you're back so can you hear me I think we got yeah I think we got that um just just the overall growth message per we just lost you for a second on the last slide so sorry about that I think that one point too that we want to make sure we hit is the growth in pickleball isn't taking away from tennis right it's like it's it's additional people out there playing it's not like one of the key takeaways there yeah awesome so um yeah so jumping back into engagement with that kind of as our context that this is happening nationally with all this growth happening we um launched into engagement in October um as I said to understand the current Court experiences and user hopes for the future so these are some of the methods that we use during this engagement um the summary in the packet

[125:01] includes how when data points key takeaways from all of these methods but tonight we're going to mainly look at a few of the key outcomes from the questionnaire this is partially because this uh this questionnaire um was was developed with help of Mike um based on other surveys that he's used in other communities um and also analyzed with a professional help of Mike and even reviewed with USA and USA pickle ball the results were reviewed with them um to gather their reactions to the data um it's also as you can see although we have a lot of people at that public meeting the online questionnaire had 1,440 responses so it's the largest number of people that we had it's easily quantifiable data and we feel that it echoes much of what we've heard throughout the engagement window um through all of the different methods there are some nuances and um times where we may have heard something

[126:00] different from the organizational stakeholders so I'll try to call out a few of those tonight um and we may this is a draft of the um engagement sum summary that we've provided so we may add some notes as well when these these methods may have something different to say to each other um I do want to note that this is a questionnaire it's not a statistically valid survey and it's not a representative sample so the goal of this engagement window was to reach Court users to reach people currently experiencing our courts um and we're we're happy to say that we feel we have which I'll go into the next slide Rosa starting with who took this survey so um the first question was what sports do you play only two people did not respond to this out of the one 1,440 [Music] um and um as you can see we have a good split between the two um Sports as well as many people who play both in some

[127:02] capacity um other questions got at that about two-thirds of the respondents were marked that their primary residence was in the city of Boulder and the other third was within Boulder County very few outside of Boulder County um so we know we reached local players of the sport um and other questions got into spec specifics of how when um what season and go to the next slide who people like to play with so not just that they are players or users of the court but what kind of players are they people on this question were allowed to choose more than one option we know that they lots of people play in multiple um venues and so the most popular by far as you can see is friends and family but we did have a large response from our organized groups that our state that we refer to as our stakeholders on lots of our other slides so from Boulder tennis Association and boo pickle ball club members 55% of the

[128:01] respondents of this questionnaire um responded that they had played with with those groups um so we we know about half the responses are from that that pool of players but we also know that almost half of our responses are play with other groups or do not play with any of these organized groups labeled and maybe just play next so going from who who answered the survey and who are these players to what is their current experiences these were three different questions overall experience Port conditioning reservation process you can see we have room for improvement across the board and especially with PT condition which is something we're definitely taking into account then on the next slide and yeah we we can go back and answer all this questions I'm kind of going to go through and and we can drill into the other graphs and charts that were in the summary as well if you have any questions on those um so this is moving

[129:01] now into the future what do people desire so these are pickle ball Services we asked about pickle ball and Tennis separately as we know there's differences between what those players are looking for in in an experience um and this this also follows National Data that um the services that were most important were drop in online reservations and leagues at the top and then we'll go into tennis you can go next slide so looking at tennis we have the same top three in a bit of a different order um reservations leagues and then drop in play again mirroring what we've heard from stakeholders what we heard at the public meeting and what um training's data suggests I also like to note that the bottom three in these cases are also the middle three and the bottom three are also the same between these two sports interestingly um so we know what's not important to people which I think really

[130:00] helps us out as well that you know ball machine rentals proops and Concession services are not of high interest or high importance to the folks who who respond to the survey and I'm going to pause at services and ask Mike do you have anything to add before I go to amenities sorry about that um so uh the I think the thing to to point out if you wanted to flip back a quick slide to pickle ball Services you'll see that um the drop in play is significantly off the charts and the reason being is pickle ball is a very social sport it's not to say that it's not competitive um but it is not a skill developed sport the way tennis is uh the pickle ball users that uh players in Boulder that we talked with routinely you know stated that pickle ball is a sport that you can play learn to play in you know 30 minutes to an hour um whereas tennis is definitely more of a skill-based sport

[131:02] that requires you know the the lessons um and uh the ability to develop that skill it's not to minimize one or the other but it's why drop in play is so significantly high on pickle ball um it's a social sport but it's also a very easier much easier sport to learn to play and play well so if you go then also back to the tennis um you'll notice that um leagues are uh number two um the reason that this is really really important is the USA United States tennis Association is really starting to provide some significant guidelines or Guidance with regards to um sanction League sanction tournaments and and what qualif ifies as a um uh shall I say a court in which leagues and tournaments can be held on um and it cannot be a court that is lined for uh pickle ball as well so um I think it's important to

[132:02] recognize that leagues being very high starts to lean yourself towards the desire um for what was said earlier uh by Cliff which is dedicated Sports um which is also the number one um requested or shall I say the the number one guideline um provided by the United States tennis Association the other thing I think is important um and when you look at the things such as private lessons ball machines Pro Shop what your community is not requesting um because uh many of those Services um are are aligned with this kind of facility your community is not requesting shall we say a racket Center um that has as U memberships um that you pay uh you and and so on and so forth those are the kind of services that you see offered in what we uh deem tennis centers where

[133:00] you're having you know 16 you know tennis courts and 24 pickle ball courts and it's privately managed and um is really geared towards um profitability so I think it's important to recognize that though some of that does um show up as somewhat important when you start getting the ball machines Pro Shop concession Services um that lends itself to kind of a racket Center uh which is not what your community is Desiring thanks Mike so yeah to move then from services and what that might say about um what kind of facility we would make into just asking about specifically amenities and the physical so if you go to the next slide Rosa um we that was the next question so we asked um pi ball you know what what amenities were most important to them and you'll see that at the top is conveniently located courts and while we tried to understand this better through some of the open responses as well as um

[134:02] stakeholders this this really came down to some of the access um the location within Town bike pedestrian access and parking um and then we see dedicated and groups of Courts following shortly behind so there's not an currently any dedicated pickle ball courts in the city of Boulder um and as Mike spoke to that social aspect of pickle ball so it's uh not not surprising to us to see the groups of Four Courts um then rank below that and then moving to tennis um again conveniently located show up as the top um and dedicated as second especially with knowing that leagues cannot be played on those multi-use score at this at this point this Echoes what we heard in the Services question um but then we see indoor courts um and covered and lighted courts come in kind of a flurry in the next um set of importance um and in when when we

[135:02] asked this question at the public meeting people had stickers that were allowed to vote for three and we saw indoor courts come up much higher at the at the public meeting so that's something we want to address as as a difference um between potentially who was in the room or again that how how people were asked this was rating the importance from important to not important versus taking a sticker to vote for which three were the most important so um potentially a little bit of a method um the sample size who happened to be in the room that night um as well as we know the pressure from Rocky Mountain Tennis Center um leaving in the near future which is indoor provider of tennis in the community um potentially being fresh on people Minds um that night or while they were taking the survey um that that's part of the reason that might that might show so highly and especially showed up highly at the at the public meeting I I find it interesting that um

[136:02] only 12% of tennis uh folks wanted multiport courts that have tennis and pickle ball and yet 25% of your respondents say that they play both which suggests pretty strongly that people who want to play tennis want to play tennis courts want to play Pickleball with a fan like pickleball yeah absolutely yeah and I think Mike spoke spoke that I mean part of the reason that USA has not allowed that not allowed that for league play is because there is confusion then obviously there's competing interests there's potential conflicts um Etc so um yeah there's there's some um problems with multiuse and there's also some advantages obviously that then um you know we can distribute them more throughout the city with the same number of Courts so I've been meeting with these groups pretty consistently over the last couple months and um I think part of that also is that the especially the tennis

[137:01] community feels that with the rise of pickle ball they've lost something they've lost tennis courts um and I think there's you're seeing a little bit of like fear more of that so they want to protect their resources yeah yeah it's no surprised at all that that would be an extremely low percent from the T folks yeah for sure yeah thanks thanks Bernie and thanks to Bernie for yeah being liaison and being in with all our organizational stakeholder minute uh minutes I have one more slide can we jump to that and then we'll take more questions yeah thank you guys Baron with so then we asked um a simplified version of that question um in terms of what should be our investment priorities for the city of Boulder um you'll see that 68% of people ranked adding new courts as their top priority 51% then ranks improving the daily maintenance so that gets that condition um as their second priority and enhancing existing courts um with added amenities ranked as the lowest priority for 56% of people so

[138:02] these are kind of listed in in terms of what folks thought the number one priority should be versus second and third um and I'm going to pause there and also ask Mike if you have anything to add either about amenities or about um this question that that shows priorities no I think Charlotte I think you you summed it up well I think the the point uh made um by one of the the board members about uh tennis inventory actually decreasing due to the rise of pickle ball um and the the striping of the Courts for both Sports is is absolutely spoton uh the basically what used to be Just Tennis Court inventory is no longer 100% Just Tennis Court inventory so as the sport has continued to grow in popularity um in particular Over The Last 5 Years um the uh the actual amount of inventory hours of Courts available um in in Boulder uh

[139:00] over the last five years because of the rise of pickle ball um has has substantially decreased great and then Rosa would you go to the next slide these are just the overall takeaways um that you've seen in the charts um that we ALS Al saw through the other engagement methods we had and in the open-ended questions on the on the questionnaire um that the real desire is for additional courts dedicated additional courts um and opportunities to play with friends family drop-ins leagues and organized play um and that there's need for improvement to the current Court condition and reservation process so um yeah I guess I can take questions if folks want to ask about those engagement window one and these results and then we can go back to the engagement process overall or the timeline process overall too yeah yeah

[140:00] how many tenis and P are estimated to be in that's a good question I mean this like I said this was not a sci statistically valid survey so was 25% of that 1,00 almost 1,500 um but so the exact number is really hard to um to calculate partly because there are so many opportunities to go out and use a tenis court without registering without reserving a court so what we can do is we can measure Court reservations we can talk to our our um stakeholders that are or organized groups and find out their member numbers and then we can do some extrapolations of that um but there's not really a great way for us to you know like is it a tennis player that is walking after to their tennis court once or twice a year are we call them a tennis player versus someone who's you know playing leagues on a regular basis so there's just a wide variation in that how many how many known players are there you mean in Boulder or nationally

[141:02] or Bo Boo's got 1400 members for pick of all if we look at our registrations with Gonzo tennis that that numberers pretty close to a thousand there just within our program so I would imagine it's quite a bit higher than that yeah and that'll be something that is part of looking looking at our like assessment needs assessment um will be those numbers yeah the interesting part is we had out of those 14 you know 40 responses we know about half of them are with organizations and half aren't so I think that if that's any indication my next question might be like like the exact number like um just you know like maybe what is the important of that to you so we can kind of think about how to look at that I was wondering like if you 10,000 total players you got 1400 out of 10,000 gota representative is gotta 5000

[142:02] players yeah Mike can you help answer that question yeah I was going to say I think it's um usually about three to five% of the population are pickle ball players um and then another five to eight% are tennis players uh just that's just how kind of how there's you know two and a half tennis players for every pickle ball player uh trend-wise and I think that's pretty indicative of the uh the numbers that you see with regards to uh how people have indicated that they they play um you know either tennis or pickle ball are both sports but um yeah it's and I think if you're using Boulders raw numbers you know when you're talking 3,000 5,000 7,000 8,000 people um whether they're playing as a core user meaning frequently and intensively um or as a casual user um meaning more on a dropin basis maybe not as regular uh it's still a significant percentage of your population and just in raw numbers

[143:02] uh that's a lot of that's a lot of people playing both Sports just Anna to your question of is this a statistically valid representation of the community the an I mean that's what I think was the root of your question is that accurate yeah just like if the first survey yeah and and we don't know we don't know for a lot of reasons because we know that once the link was live the user groups targeted their their members and so we we saw a high representation from folks who were part of those user groups we didn't um reach out when we conduct a statistically valid survey we oversample to groups that typically don't participate we provide it in letter for folks who don't engage in email and that's why I mean this is not a St statistically valid survey it provides helpful information that will be woven with the questions you're asking around population will be part of the weaving that happens with the next step we're not there yet but so that's why when you ask questions we don't have those

[144:00] numbers at the tips our Thum our fingers because we're not there yet okay yeah question so first of all I think this process is going great I was really encouraged to hear Cliff moss do a pres give a commentary say that they were working together they're working with you the communication lines are open so I think your process is going really well so congratulations on that um I think there are also some opportunities here the the the entry cost to pick a ball is considerably lower than it is for tennis and I think that there's a potential for getting some of our low-income communities and immigrant communities engaged in tickle ball and I wonder if there's any plan for outreach or engagement to those communities as part of this this plan that's a good question um really right now we're focusing on we know um we're you know our users are already struggling to find so the first step is really to like let's get our core inventory to kind of match our users and

[145:01] players needs and then building the sport from there there I think is also a very important valuable thing how can we support that how we can we provide the that equipment and the education and right the Comfort level in a lot of cases um so I think like part two is the court system plan is a little bit more kind of about the inventory programming and existing users that we have but I definitely think like going towards that building that User Group once we have the capacity would be um a prime example of you know our reach ta that's a good point but I think that Court location can drive some of that use yes for sure so I think that should be a factor in your consideration when you do come to the point of deciding if you're going to build any new courts and if so where they will go yes then that location will be um access access and Equity of the location is indeed one of the criteria and that will be part of what we talk to you in the new year so definitely and and that's the policy piece as well right so this is the engagement what we heard from our

[146:00] current users that's important but equity and resilience and sustainability are those founding principles that are are going to drive this plan as well certainly the um the only one thing I do want to add and I think we just have to keep in mind when we talk about uh Loc in particular of pickle ball courts though there is potentially advancement with regards to the the the equipment um the the 500 foot buffer uh between any pickle ball courts and residents is one of those things that we have to be strongly uh consider as we go forward in terms of that Equity uh component just simply because of the the noise associated with pickle ball yeah did you have something you wanted to add okay great we talked about it last week so so um thank you both charlot and Tina for your hard work on this I know it's been a lot of community engagement and you know TR I attended the meeting it was very well attended very impressive to see you um the survey to me seems

[147:02] very comprehensive in looking at the desires of our existing Community do we have any we have any thoughts about like what we do to what what do we need to reach people who are not already engaged in one of these two sports and let know that Boulder is planning this this work and then looking further ahead like once we've done whatever we're going to do how do we like what's the next step how do we like make sure that everyone knows what's what amenities are available for tennis the wall right so this this section was definitely you know focus more on the the current users um but we do actually when we start to roll into um our department plans I guess it was a master plan now department plan is that correct right that starts to actually get that broader question and we do more of a statistically valid and we talk about our services and we start to ask people why like what's preventing them from using it and starting to dig into that and then it kind of rolls into like systemwide where should we be spending

[148:00] our energy growing those programs what are folks interested in so we can Target our resources there our money there our you know like what we're working on an equity there so instead of course sort of like you know we love that you know courts are important but instead of going in and asking they using the cours kind of that bigger question is going in and like Megan was saying we don't want to go in there every other week with a new question so it is more of that bigger engagement of like what are you interested in how can we help there and then that builds more into that systemwide strategy and I have a followup question um I don't think we asked about adaptive tennis in our survey is that right we did ask an open-ended question um for folks with disabilities if they had something they wanted to share with us about their experience and something and anything that would help make their experience um better so we did we did get feedback in terms of that yeah I saw a couple of comments but was there anything that jumped out to you that you think we should know no I think um a lot of folks if

[149:01] this is in the summary as well um but I'll I'll try to remember my my bullet points I wrote um folks I guess I it's like 10 slides further but um folks um one thing is that folks are really concerned about the wheelchair tennis program that's going away at Rocky Mountain and so I think you heard that in Cliff's comments that's definitely something that was echoed as well um got the wheelchair programming is just so valuable um and making sure that all of our courts are up to ADA compliance will definitely be part of this plan as well um or in even improvements in terms of that wheelchair access or that wheelchair programming I think is a high priority for us and Megan can maybe speak to this a little bit more too but we do have um adaptive methods in in all of our programming um at the request so um is it going away yes in that certain way the way that Rocky Mountain tennis does provide it um but there are services and it is a key component like everything in our community right now

[150:01] really is the sustain sustainability equity and resilience are are always the thread that has to kind of you know be thread through everything um so for us to build a new court and not have it accessible um is not an option yeah so a key challenge um with any adaptive support is just access to equipment um I I don't know much about the program at Rock Mountain tennis center but I imagine they have loaner chairs available loaner tennis chairs U which is a highly specialized and expensive Fe of equipment that many people can't afford to own um so uh I I guess I'm going to make a request that we investigate what they're doing as far as equipment and contemplate how older might be able to make about that work as we solidify this that's a very good point thank you unfortunately it is the kind of thing that would have to be delivered we have a contact grou like if they're not doing that program anymore what they want like could we those chairs if they have some oh certainly so we you know what you

[151:00] highlighted is we need to learn a little bit more of what we're using with that program and how we we have potential to fill that Gap yeah unfortunately it is something that probably has to be different some kind of facility you know we heard from Mike that U our community is not asking for a racket Center that makes total sense but um you got to keep the wheelchair somewhere so something else to think about yeah than I I think generally a question of how accessible is tennis to folks with disabilities in our community is a good one for us to have as a lens I believe it's already there it's also there in a parallel and sister project that Mark's going to be leading in 2024 that's not you made a comment earlier offline Bernie about sure Ada standards are one thing but they're the bare minimum for tennis for example a court has to be 4 2 inch wide to accommodate a wheelchair however does that accommodate a cambered wheelchair that we know is what folks use if they're playing wheelchair rugby or wheelchair tennis a sport where you need a little more balance and so that's the above and beyond that we need to look at it's it's

[152:00] not feasible for all courts as we build courts as we fix the fence at the North B direct Center as we're doing things how do we how do we do better I think it's just that if if if we could summarize this conversation of how are we making sure as we do this we're we're looking at the lens that support people this is yeah I think it's a good thing for us to consider in this room because probably a lot of our existing Community temps Community is not thinking about it yeah yeah thank you thank you questions um yeah in mind his question are you looking at like getting from the parking lot to the court like what type of accessibility there is absolutely how far you know like there's just there's the distance but there's just other obstacles gr access and connections even some like bus stop right and other modes of Transit KN that some of those people do not drive so yeah yeah son do you have any comments or

[153:02] questions no I'm just really thrilled that we're talking about this and um I feel like I I've learned a lot and much more clear on on you know why it's so complicated really um I I'm struck by the um the restriction on building is it 500 feet within within a residence that yeah that will be part of the guidelines um before noise yeah and something we're still working through with the consult in terms of best practices there's a lot lot ofing research in terms of pickle ball Acoustics um so it will include different guidelines for diff different amounts of feet away from residential um but we know Acoustics are also very site specific um if there's water nearby for

[154:01] instance um that might reflect the noise and so um USA pickle ball for instance Now is offering free acoustic consultations that might be part of the guidelines um to have them always come out on site and at least do that free consult ation as well as some kind of guidelines that include basic uh number number of hundreds of feet away from residential the appropriateness of building different courts so that we're within all of our noise laws yes yeah I'm just having trouble even imagining you know five places in Boulder that that would come close to that um it just I wish there was a way to Nestle these courts um more Within neighborhoods so that they're walkable and usable and and not separate from where people are living funny to be clear the 500 foot buffer is not a done guideline it's emerging practice and that's without any

[155:01] sound mitigation closer than that is possible with sound mitigation it just means it's more um expensive to burier or to build so one example um that is emerging is people are actually um sinking the courts below grade so that most of the sound is absorbed into the ground and happens um obviously that adds an accessibility challenge right partner with the the conversation we just had but there are strategies that are emerging for sound mitigation and Sound Reduction um I get an email a week from a Community member saying there's a new racket there's a new thing there's a so like I suspect this is going to look dramatically different in three years just for a visual the courts itself South the direct Center are they have 500 setbacks right yes correct yeah East thank you I'm just glad glad I'm just glad for all the people who have continually you know been trying to make this happen that that

[156:01] there's movement so I appreciate the hard work and research and and uh excited to see this going forward right any further comment I'll switch to the next slide then maybe just to say next steps we're working on the deliverables as you saw um we're continuing to meet regularly with those organization stakeholders that we called out um and we'll be back with you in January and then Rosa the next slide if you would we talked a lot about um engagement window one um and some other general questions for the plan you guys have any questions on that schedule we talked about all the way back at the beginning any of the deliverables or any of the other engagement windows that are coming up I think it's moving pretty briskly for such a complex and large plan so that's good yeah and I would maybe add two right so as we're looking at um where we

[157:00] could potentially add new courts um tennis or pickle ball within in the same location or different there is still interest I think from the department and part of the community that is also thinking about what that indoor facility could or would look like now that would be definitely our vision right like we have the fiscally constraint which we'll be talking about by the end of the year figure out what we're going to do with what we have taking care of what we have then we're going to have the action where it's like where could those additional courts go likely outdoor looking at exact locations and and and what configurations would work and then setting criteria to those so we can evaluate and prioritize and then I think there is still interested in that vision of um with those long-term Partnerships if there's opportunities with BBs CU um Private Industry and all of that kind of stuff still having um a place for that Vision in our

[158:00] future okay that's all for any further feedback questions great you don't mind out just by finish saying this Charlotte's Ro and how long have you been in the planning role a year and a half this for Charlotte's first presentation tonight and I thought you did an excellent job so just acknowledge that I realized this my first crowd meeting I've ever been to in person a comment on the pandemic yes charot used to be in Rose's position so we we had her meeting yeah okay next up we have maners from the boards uh the first item is PR recruitment for respective board member application questions and I don't have any material on this other than we had a list of questions and we thought they were pretty good so I wanted to add that

[159:00] those were um we brought those to you last dra same exact questions and those with something you had tweaked those a little bit right so here they are again in the Tweet format from last year if you like them as is perfect if you want to change few words or whatever I need to know by W tomorrow Wednesday um I I think the questions are great I we we speak them and I was happy with them at the time I don't know if anyone else has any yeah I thought they were good as this so okay thank you yeah thank you uh sunny anything from you on that nope I think they're great okay thank you just making sure you're part of the meeting you know checking in with you occasion thank you good okay next up is future meetings

[160:01] coordination and planning so we already heard from Ali roads that our December meeting will be on the 18th and we'll be joining with landmarks um we already had a Scuttle one meeting with landmarks so I want to make sure we all think we can make that meeting we have a forum yes it will be there right excellent um any other coordination or planning for future meetings that we need to do I think that's those two I heard and I'm I'm gonna be a little process on this I heard a thumbs up from fre and I just if Anna and or sunny could also confirm we can obviously follow up with Anita and Jason but I just want to make sure you five if we have at least four well proceed full steam ahead you gotum I got four okay thank you yeah I I believe that will work awesome thank you so much we we'll steam ahead excellent um we still have our retreat planning Right is

[161:00] coming up and can you remind me when we're planning ret so in your Matters from the board we are polling and not getting a lot of responses so that's it's on page three it's the very last page of the memo is the current state of responses to that poll that head s page 320 lots of surve it is bookmarked so if you're wanting to scroll it you can go to the ribbon and just do the Matters from the board so I mean I I don't think there's information now for you to select a date okay we have H one date in January and four in February so please get back to Rosa on the responses to that Rosa could you send another email out just to prod us so that we'll respond this one person has said yes or only one person who's responded like how many responses have we got to this poll is it have to

[162:00] go into okay yeah I can follow up tomorrow with the so I think the poll allowed us to select one of these dates is that correct one please yeah and so the fact that we got one six everyone responded but they all pick different dates we will resend that with the option to select more than one yeah as a doodle poll or something where we could select multiple dates so that we can find a one date everything that works yeah would be the best okay y yep all right and uh final item here is is the crab matters so any you've been engaging with people during anyone else done any public engagement or any feedback from the public or any comments on Parks and Recreation

[163:01] matters um I'm not trying to put you on the spot just didn't know if you had anything additional to report uh with your tennis engagement uh I have nothing further on tennis I did have one want to say U that I've been reading with great interest the results of the board's commission assessment projects I'm sure we all have and it's something I think is maybe worth our discussing at a later date okay as um something for the As a matter from the board or something to discuss with the department or probably as a matter from the board okay do it's just it feels like uh the results of that work could have implications for this body um may want to discuss what that could be and what our opinion is yeah I agree would that be something to bring up in the retreat you think would that be an appropriate place where we let's added to the retreat agenda which is already a little sparse there you go I thought it was getting kind of full

[164:00] but four items if I recall on the retreat agenda and we meet on Thursday anyway we can we can kind of filter that out or rehash that okay so we can either add it to the retreat agenda with the permission uh Jason and it sunny or um are we consider it for a matter from the board we'll discuss that on Thursday you write us a quick email about what your thoughts are yes did the I know many of you were interviewed by the project team walking on this did they send the report directly to you would you like us to email that to you or do you already have it I received it I assume everyone else did to yeah okay I reail though like I have it it just it's bu yeah I I can send you both the memo from the council meeting on November 9th and the presentation that was shared that night if you want the flip notes great the presentation is often a nice summary so

[165:00] I'll get that to you okay thank you okay anything else from PR matters great our next Mor meeting will be on December 18th okay uh motion to ad the meeting motion to second all in favor of Jing thank you good