June 17, 2025 — Human Relations Commission Regular Meeting

Transcript

Manually captioned by City of Boulder staff. All segments attributed to uploader — not individual speaker labels. [MM:SS] timestamps correspond to the YouTube recording.

[0:09] Otherwise. Okay, keep on. It's almost at least this is the June 17th meeting of the Human Relations Commission. We are recording. We are live cheese

[1:09] 8. I vote I motion to approve. Thank you very much.

[2:36] Okay. And this is the part of the meeting where we will open up for public comment. It looks like we have audience member. If you would like to make public comment, please raise your hand. Looks like you are raising your hands.

[3:01] Before we begin. I'm just going to read off a little prepared script. Correct hold on. Okay. The city has engaged with community members to co-create a vision for productive, meaningful, and inclusive civic conversations. The vision supports physical and emotional safety for community members, staff and board and commission members as well as democracy, for people of all ages, identities, lived experiences and perspectives

[4:04] for more information about this vision and the community engagement processes. Please visit the website shown on this. Yes, yes. the following are examples of rules that they currently found in the more revised code and other guidelines that support this provision. These will be upheld during this meeting all remarks and testimony shall be limited to matters related to super business, because you got that absolutely no participant shall make threats or use other forms of intimidation against any person, obscenity, racial epithets, and other speech and behavior that disrupts or otherwise demeans the ability to conduct the meeting or pro answer.

[5:01] Participants are required to sign up to speak, using the name they are commonly known by, and individuals must display their whole name before being allowed to speak online. Currently, only audio testimony is permitted online communication. Okay? So I have stopped sharing my screen. I see you have raised your hand. I'm going to try. All right. Are you able to hear me. We can see the Scripture. I'm sorry. What was that? You could hear me. Can you hear me? Well, this could jump.

[6:01] We can hear you. Yep. Okay, great, great thanks for this opportunity to speak with you all. So IA couple of things before I get to the main point about the your meeting first.st there was not any agenda nor minutes have posted from the last meeting. but I was able to read and listen to the last meetings, minutes and audio recording, and got some information. But it was a more time consuming, so I'm not totally prepared for this. And when I was listening to the audio recording, which is the 1st time I've ever done that and the Youtube Channel. By the way, sadly. I was not able to understand most of what Carlos was saying, because the wonderful interpreters are not present on their voices are not present. So for those of us who are watching this or hearing it in recording can't

[7:09] understand that. So I'm not sure you are aware of that. and I'm not sure that anything could be done about it. Technically it might be a barrier. I don't know if anything can be done about that, but you all just should know that. Also, I'd like you all. I don't know if there's been discussion about allowing in-person participation at your meeting, as the Housing Advisory Board allows, but I strongly encourage you to consider that I think that's the way it used to be done for many years with you all, and I just want to encourage you to reconsider it. So my main topic is the Difficult Conversations project that you are all

[8:01] gonna be discussing tonight and has discussed in the in the past. It is so urgently needed. I just want to really reinforce that it is a real strong need like right now. And I understand from from what I think I understand is you're considering doing this in the fall. But I would say, especially in the context of the horrific Molotov cocktail attacks on the Mall. that the City Council is considering limiting, or even possibly eliminating public comment, and this latest horrific attack. Israeli attack on Iran. All of those make the conversations difficult. Conversations topic on the mideast even more urgent because I feel like this community is just boiling over on this, and there's no real outlet for this. I also realize that the city is not the best

[9:04] positioned for sponsoring that because of the feelings people have about the city. and yet it may be the only venue that is actively considering this, I love, that you're considering partnering with Cu, which would be probably a more trusted part party involved with holding difficult conversations. And I'm looking forward to hearing how you all are. Gonna discuss it tonight. But I do urge you to make it happen even as a trial, perhaps sooner rather than later, and I will stop there. Thank you. Thank you very much, Mark. We'll just open up any response from staff commissioners. Yeah, I'll just say thanks. As always, Mark, for caring so much about this issue. Thanks for continuing to

[10:07] bring it to us. And like express the urgency definitely with you on that. And yeah, I hope I hope you'll stick around to hear about the discussion on it. There's definitely some forward movement on that that I'll be sharing with fellow commissioners, hoping to yeah, get some things moving forward. And yeah, definitely recognizing the nuance of like the challenges of having a city do it. And the importance of making something happen. So yeah, hope you stick around looking forward to hearing more about what's happening. Thank you, Mark, for your comments, echoing what Erin says that I hear you, and I also feel the urgency around these issues here in the city. If you could share a little bit more about why you feel it's important that we open up in person comment that would be helpful for me as a Hrc.

[11:08] Yes. Can you hear me? Okay, sorry. Right? Now, I'm having difficulty hearing you all. And that actually underlines one of the difficulties of doing this online. For some reason I can't see you all. Well, I guess that's part of this public comment. But I'm having a hard time before you were coming across very clearly and loudly, but for right now I'm I'm really straining to hear your comments at this very moment. So just the physicality of being in the room and hearing that is is really helpful, and I just feel like it is a more welcoming environment when citizens can attend all commissions and boards. I realize Covid really did a number for public participation. And I realize also

[12:03] that it's easier for people to do things online and would always want to reserve that option for people to participate in that way. But there's some of us who just get a lot more out of being in person rather than so much online. At this point. And for Elizabeth and Christian. Whose decision is it for how we take public comment? I believe it's the clerk's office, and in relation to the city managers and communications and engagement, so we can certainly just check again and see whether there's any changes to the guidelines. But that's who we probably don't. Enter. I was just gonna say the other boards and commissions that also meet in person. Only take

[13:08] one comment. So it's not kind of a singling out, for example, the 10 Advisory cannabis licensee Advocacy Board average license authority. I'd love to bring that up for discussion. But we can do that after that comment period. Okay, thank you for your mark, mark. With regards to housing, we're going to talk among ourselves, and then we might bring that to the table.

[14:08] Can't think you bring one of those people for the most recommended. and perhaps people can come and speak with us and give us comments regarding housing. And thank you so much, Mark. I appreciate it. Inara. Okay, I'd pass it back to you, Carlos. This is commentary. We did not

[15:11] the and I'm wondering if we can also maybe add something about discussing the public participation partner Mark brought up. Yeah, I think it's worthwhile to discuss if we can have more in person publication, because I see value of that. So I would like to add that to the agenda. You can discuss that during Section 9. That's right.

[16:05] So this is not tracking with what I got on my screen better than it has in the past, which is a low bar. These are the microphones that we're using. So this should be. Our conversation should be picked up on the these microphones here. So we're we're good. I think folks who have tuned in can hear a little bit better. Better, now. Have a different screen completely on my laptop. Right? But it's reading 2 different parts of your computer screen. Yes, try and drag a window to the right or left side of your screen.

[17:13] Great, I'm not gonna open up my browser. I suggest you just keep up this one. We're gonna go elementary here, so difficult dialogues and interview game. This is a continuation of the conversation that we've been having for quite some time now, Erin, I would pass it over to you, unless you want me to give you to give folks a summary little bit, and then I'll have you fill in, and I'll have it off. So kind of gist of this is Christian, and I went to meet up with Dr. Jennifer Ho at Cu, along with Ami, who created the interview game. And had a really fruitful dialogue. Ami is

[18:10] very vested and interested in this topic. Not only is he, you know, very been working with this interview game, the difficult dialogue series. But he's also Israeli and is very connected to this and he's personally been creating a theater show performance to try and bring some different perspectives which I witnessed it myself, but it felt very similar to what I saw with Modis theater doing the Bbcp and getting different perspectives. And so we just have, like a really generative dialogue that, like felt like we were all aligned around. Let's find some way to collaborate meaningfully. Let's see how the city can partner with Cu Dha. Difficult dialogues to move something forward. We floated a few ideas around, such as like doing a whole kickoff that might even involve some level of theater performance and involve some level of bringing various city officials.

[19:05] But what felt really important that we were getting at is, yes, the larger we need to look at how we're dialoguing in boulder. And like, I think right now, it feels really important to touch into this Israel Palestine thing, where there is an increasing amount of tension in our community. And so we all seemed like we were pretty aligned around that. And so the idea was to kind of create some kind of series that could involve some kind of theater or other thing with some city officials as a way to kick off and initiate what could maybe be a series of difficult dialogues, interview games that could involve some city officials could involve regular people in public. But kind of doing it as a way to get the message out that the city is aware that this is happening, and is really here to engage and participate in the process, and to kind of open that, open the floor for others to participate. So that's that's like a little bit of where we're at. And then, yeah, the idea was assuming, there's like enough like agreement here, and we all want to like move forward, and we can kind of enter more dialogue to get clear. For, like with more of Christian's help, like what cities participation looks like from financial or otherwise and to be in dialogue with Omni and with Dr. Ho, to

[20:23] kind of maybe participate a little bit in the planning process, for, like that production. And for the series. do you feel like I covered? Well, anything you want to add? Yeah. So we'd love to hear kind of any any thoughts from y'all. I think it sounds great, and I'm glad there's a lot of buy in and excitement and I think a series of engagements with different audiences would be great.

[21:01] And I'm definitely excited and open to having them come to a meeting to have a more constructed conversation with the 3 of us and everybody here. Yes, I think it's a good idea. And it's an option to have these sort of conversations. There's no audio. Okay, that was earlier when yeah, great. So I'm curious, Christian, if you have a clear sense of like what some good next steps are there anything that you sense from the conversation we have there. That are needed to move forward, or what's what do you sense? What's generative here? Pretty much what I got in terms of

[22:07] what, and Dr. Oh, might be looking for is just where we want to go. They seem very open, as you mentioned there, to just kind of like working together with the Commission. And so I think what we might need to do is kind of just determine. Have some conversation among ourselves determine, like what it is like that we want to do with the interview game, and then also sort of like the difficult. How we, as you mentioned. There's a couple of different like options that got thrown out examples of ways that the Commission. And so you could partner and I think what was kind of asked towards the end of the meeting was just like, what is it that you guys would want to

[23:05] do, or what is it like? Who would? Who would you want to have in a room during like a interview game, or something like that? Or what are the what is the topic, or what are would the topics be? And kind of like? What are the goals or outcomes that we would like to see as a as a group. And so I think that would be kind of identifying that and bringing Dr. Ho! And Tommy into conversations to see sort of where we can align and sort of move together. That would be what I see as next steps. Yeah. Great. Yeah. So I mean, I think what I would propose is so I can continue to be like in active dialogue with them, and kind of engage and bring some of the

[24:00] perspectives we we have here to to plan. I don't want to be in the place where we're like waiting like for another month, and another month, and another month to to keep moving. I do think we should let invite them here here next month, but my hope is that by the time they come to the meeting next month we can have a lot of things in motion. So most likely, I think that would probably involve. Yeah, just a few more conversations. I can directly engage with them. Maybe you can be a part, just to make sure, like the partnerships. Are really really well represented. But it sounds to me like the intent is, let's like, let's plan an event. And let's plan a number of series. And see I'd love kind of what Christian was asking. If there's anything you all might wanna like perspective. You might want to drop in such as like, who? Who? Who should we be representing like, who should be a part of these series like, where should we kind of focus a little bit of that dialogue. your your point, Christian, about what issues do we want to focus on? I think maybe talking amongst us about? Do we want to just have it be about the Israeli and Gaza

[25:13] conflict? Or do we want to broaden it because we've also had other present day human rights issues like immigration brought to our attention here at the Commission that I could see as potential topics for the difficult dialogue or the interview game. The it seems like they're going to be doing. I think one immigration in a few months. I definitely think that's important. And I think we should like, look at that and like the sense. I guess that might be 2 different things like, I. I think if there's a series, maybe we want to do a series to address a specific tension, and then we can do another series to address different tensions. And we can also, like partner with them on the immigration. One is the immigration one what they were planning in the fall. At the last meeting I shared up. This is the topic that is gonna happen. I believe it's September 21st or 20 second, and we've been

[26:17] invited by Doctor Ho to co sponsor and just essentially help with advertising the event. And that sounded like it had the group support at the last meeting. So I will plan, unless you tell me otherwise, to continue that. Thank you for the Refresher. One thing I would chime in if I may, is just of all the possible places to start the next phase of conversation. It's a good idea to think 1st and very specifically about what the what, what the impact and the change factor, or what the outcomes are that you want to see and really have that be the guidepost? Maybe second to that gut check with again scopes.

[27:09] Because if we're focus on the scope of what is the scope and the purpose of the Hrc. And how does that influence the way in which you approach it? Somebody could hear. Hrc. Is talking about, you know Israel Gaza, Hamas war. And we're talking about immigration and have it be a conversation that's this big and the Hrc's role is actually community relations issues. And you know, human relations issues that focus on the city of Boulder. So I think it's worth spending some time in that nuance to make sure that you're this next step with difficult dialogues. And the energy game is really. very, very uniquely focused on what your role is and not. Let's talk about these topics which could be interpreted a bunch of different ways.

[28:07] and so just that. But I think we can. Yeah, provide some if it's helpful, you know, framing. Not that you can't. But if if any of those things are helpful, those are processes we use in the city all the time, just for kind of planning, making sure we're 1st clear on, like, what do we want to have? How do we want people to feel what we want to do after this experience, and then back up from there to say, Okay, now, what are the logistics? I think for for me? Experiencing the interview team? What I took away with it was hopefully after people, even people with very differing beliefs, coming together and being able to live together in a peaceful way, and still disagree on this really important issue is what I'm framing this as, and that is how it is local for me. But I'm curious what you 2 think.

[29:12] I mean. Yeah, I think I think for me very similar, like my interest. Like to me, human relations. We're looking at the relations of people in in Boulder. And right now there is oftentimes a lack of like being able to find common ground around topics, and this is one where I think it is the most, the most present. It's actually why this is, I think, different from immigration, because immigration is an issue where almost everybody in Boulder is super pro immigrant. I'm sure there's some who are not. But like this is one that's very divisive within our community, like people are very heated on that either side of the spectrum, and it's creating ruptures in our community. And so to me, part of our responsibility as the Human Relations Commission is to to address the divisiveness that's present. And I think the way we do that is kind of exactly what you're saying. Creating an opportunity like this that enables us to root more into our shared humanity find that common ground where we can hold the fact that we may disagree on this international issue. But we still care about being good neighbors to each other.

[30:21] I don't have super good answers to the who to bring in. I'm I'm especially not wanting to create more context in which Council members. Words can be used against them to fuel division. And so that's 1 thing I'm thinking about, like, yes, I think on the one hand, it would be great to have some city Council representation. And I I'm not sure what the purpose of that would be, because again, I would be concerned that their words would be used against them. So totally. Yeah. And there's definitely some dialogue about like.

[31:02] how many of these dialogues are going to be witnessed publicly. How much of them are that like, there's an interesting idea that's floated of like getting the Council to do it, but not having it be a recorded public thing just having it be an experience they all commit to going through together and staying for opening that to other members of the community. And then from that people can go and share out their experience. But that's what that's what yeah, they found works best is where it's not as like. So witnessed kind of ordeal. You got some things just kind of to expand on that point, the interview game itself. And you can see on Amy's website which I can share. You can really use the tool, use the game itself for a huge variety of purposes. And so that is, I think, one of the things that we would want to be like super clear on going into a conversation with Dr. That way. Tommy is the creator of the tool itself feels comfortable saying like, yes, this is something that I, would be okay to license out to the Human Relations Commission, and Dr. O. Is the person who would be

[32:26] volunteering, or time to train the Commissioners train us on using the tools knows. Kind of like the lens with which we're trying to use it to have when using it so she can guide us best through whatever training it looks like. So just to there's you can do it amongst family members just to like, get to know each other a little bit more. You can do it as team building for Council commission

[33:00] work groups, etc. And you can also use it to have some really fruitful dialogue around divisive topics. And so there's a whole myriad of reasons, uses for the tool. And so just something that we would want to have in mind. That's a really good question. He's got an answer. So only 2 of you can meet together outside of here at a time. So if you wanna form a small group to do that work

[34:02] on behalf of the Commission. You can do that. You cannot, however, meet outside of providing notice as an opportunity to be heard. How much notice do we need to give? And are there like protocols in place to give that notice? If we decide, we want to meet another time in an emergency situation 24 h but the normal protocol would be what the city already does. So if you want to meet outside of the normal time as a group then it would be just the normal notice. I have to notify the data camera by 5 PM. On Wednesday, the week before we would be looking to make it, because it needs to be run in the public notice of that Sunday's edition. So Wednesday.

[35:20] not exceptions to that rule. But differences between. If it's a training, if it's a special event or something that doesn't constitute like a meeting, is that correct? So, for example, if it was a meeting for the Commission to receive a training, then it would not be open to the public, because Normal Commission data would not be discussed, and there would be no.

[36:00] so that you could certainly do whenever that you want for training purposes without notice. All of these are State laws, not just local laws. Right council has no power to change most of these things. Did that. Did that conversation answer? Answer your question, or do you still have okay, I guess what would be be thinking next for to keep this moving along. If either of you feel like joining I can. Probably I guess I can bring one of one more of you in for that. But yeah, then I'll just kind of be in the planning process, and I guess.

[37:19] Try and have enough, something enough of a thing planned. But by the time we come back next month that we can like, vote and be like cool. We're doing it, and hopefully it's already in motion. I'm not quite sure how to navigate beyond that. But, I don't know if you have any insights. I mean, it sounds like we could potentially get. If we know for sure. We want to get trained in the interview team. We could schedule that training between now and then meeting, and then we'd be ready to go, regardless of what it looks like, what the events look like. I think that makes sense to me is, I mean, will also depend on Dr. Availability, and then our ability to get if there is

[38:07] cost we do have some budget for this. Just need to. There's a couple of other things that would need to happen. not quite sure if it would be able to happen between now and next meeting. But we can certainly try to make that happen what we have in our control. Yeah. And then we can be in dialogue with them like it sounds like we have. Go ahead, feel like where Human Relations Commission to partner with them on an event of that. And so me and Christian continue can continue to be in dialogue about what that event look like. Yeah. I guess we should probably take that to a vote like I moved to move to vote on partnering with Cha different dialogues on on this event.

[39:09] moving on. Okay? And I'm just gonna we are here. Presentation. So what I have here is just a gonna try to.

[40:12] Okay, cool. It's weird. So I've working on average presentation that I wanted to bring to you all just to get some feedback, and then I think it can also help inform a little bit our, or at least give you all going into in the fall of this year we'll be having a dinner and the conversation. I don't know if that like what we actually landed on with City Council, who requested meeting with the Hrc. And hearing about sort of

[41:01] the work that is going on within the office rights, landlord, tenant relations, and a couple of other topics. You will the only commission. The request was pretty broad. which we did. Yeah. So what we have. What I have here is the presentation that I'm going to be taking on the road wanted to bring to you all for some feedback or your thoughts as commissioners. And then we also have Roberto here, because there are a couple of different spots where I thought we might have some questions about the Commission's role there's mentioned throughout this presentation, and so he was kind enough to join us. So let me get started here.

[42:13] Here's the quick agenda. If I'm presenting to a organization or a community group. I just do a quick round of introduction. We're just gonna skip right through that. We're gonna go through a brief history of the human Rights ordinance touch on you all the Human Relations Commission going through what the human rights and failures ordinance are. Ordinances are, how to file a claim, what to expect when filing a claim, and then some time for question and answer. At the end of week, basically. So up here. just the purpose for the presentation to get folks a basic information about the human rights ordinances, ordinance. How the city addresses discrimination in the community for people who live and work within the city.

[43:14] Let's do that. So just to get folks sort of thinking when we hear human rights, what comes to mind what kind of words, phrases, situations, topics, come to mind. You can just pop them out. Access to health care, clean water, justice. How does the keep those in mind as we go through the presentation there will be a couple of more stops for questions as well along the way. So quick history of the ordinance. You may recognize the gentleman on the left hand side of the screen here. This is mural on the side of this very building, as Enfield, the second

[44:23] in 1972. I believe he was mayor when the Human Rights Ordinance itself got passed by, or he was a member of Boulder City Council. Excuse me when the human rights ordinance was passed, and the goal at that time was to create prompt local protection and to protect classes that were not included in federal or State discrimination laws. A couple of times in the eighties, the early 19 eighties older city Council adds parenthood, pregnancy and custody of a minor child to classes

[45:06] protected against housing discrimination. And then, in 1987, another update to the ordinance to include sexual orientation to the anti discrimination ordinance. A recent more recent update happened in 2,000, where gender variance was added to a list of protected classes. This is also a very brief history of the ordinance. You can. You can find a good amount of information in the daily cameras. Sort of periodical files as well as folder weekly, has a pretty good. Write up of the history of the ordinance. So the Human Rights Ordinance was passed as a recommendation of the Human Relations Commission, which is now you all should be a group of 5. However, at this moment we have 3, but that's okay. We will be looking for 2 more.

[46:19] the goal is to have a group of 5 city boulder residents who make up the diverse composure of our community. We hold monthly meetings, and our goal is to foster mutual respect and understanding, and to create an atmosphere conducive to the promotion of amicable relations. Among the Commission also. when called on to do so will serve as a hearing a quasi judicial hearing Board for Human Rights ordinance cases. When those get appealed and we'll touch on that in a little bit.

[47:01] So earlier we touched on what came to mind with human with the term human rights, weird justice, housing, access to health care, access to clean drinking water, Thinking about populations in particular, who is protected from discrimination in the city of Polar, or who might, we think, is protected from discrimination in the city of Polar. You can just pop it out as well popcorn it out. People with disabilities, people with disabilities, homeless folks like minorities from a racial standpoint. racial minorities, elderly people, senior citizens, senior citizens, women, pregnant women in specific circumstances, queer people, kids, queer people, awesome.

[48:11] So the human rights ordinance protects against discrimination in 3 specific areas, housing, employment and public accommodation. It prohibits discrimination based on these 2 live these 2 columns right here. And so we have and screen color, create gender variance, genetic characteristics, immigration, status. national origin, disability, mental disability, source of income, sexual orientation, etcetera, age is a specific

[49:04] only in employment. I should note this here only only in the area of employment, and when it is called out specifically in the ordinance, age means 40 years old, and over is the only time age comes up. I've had that come up, and other folks reaching out saying that they were discriminated against, and I have found that it is actually not included under the ordinance. And so it may have happened. I don't know. I can't pause it one way or the other, but it's out my wheelhouse. So we have the human rights ordinance, any other thoughts or questions just looking at. Can you share just what more about what public accommodation, so public accommodation would look like someone was denied a service out of business.

[50:11] that was operating within the city limits. Somebody was denied a good or yeah, essentially good, or service from a business and folder based on all these characters. So that is the human rights ordinance also within my wheelhouse is the ability to pay wages, ordinance. This one is pretty cut and dry. This essentially means it prohibits an employer operating within the city from withholding or from not paying or compensating their workers for the work done, unless each of these items are true, and it is a very limited and narrow scope. So the employer is actually unable to pay the employee when they were hired.

[51:12] The employer believed they could pay the employee as soon as they were aware of their inability to pay. The employee was informed. Written acknowledgment of the employee has been provided, and the employee, the employer has not brought anybody else on since not paying their I have not. I have fielded several failure to pay wages, complaints I have never seen in my time at least. All of these conditions. So it is a very narrow situation, Roberto. Anything else to add to other than human rights, ordinance or failure to pay wages?

[52:08] I? Okay, yes, yes. So the issue of the age, and being 40 tracks, Federal heads around what? this might look like in our community. We have Reggie, who is a completely fictional character. Reggie's a student, the name of the student that I had when I worked in middle school in La, and the 1st name that popped up when I was trying to come up with fictional character. Right? He's gonna be a renter with a housing voucher looking for an apartment. He finds one that he likes. It has an advertisement saying does not accept. Section 8 vouchers. Does everybody know what a housing voucher or a section 8 voucher is.

[53:10] it'd be worth describing. Okay, so a housing voucher, or commonly referred to as a section 8 voucher is a form of government assistance in which a tenant who earns below a certain income level receives assistance from the Federal Government to pay their rent. Theoretically, they're not paying more than 30% of their income towards rent. Because that is what housing and urban development has determined is the acceptable sort of amount of money amount of a monthly income that somebody should be paying towards their housing. So we have, Reggie. He has his voucher. He sees an apartment that he likes.

[54:06] He knows this one thing that he's like I don't know about. We're gonna come back to Reggie. If you think that you have been you or somebody that you know, has experienced discrimination. This is how you play protection in the under the human rights or failure to pay wage source. We have our form online in English and Spanish. I have physical copies available. If you would like to fill out a physical copy. So you fill one out, you turn it in. I reach out our process typically goes, I will review the complaints when possible. The ordinance direct me to try to steer the parties to resolving mediation which we have through available for free through our community resolution and mediation center, which is also in housing.

[55:18] And does it? Do folks know what mediation is? Mediation idea? It is a alternative dispute resolution process, basically facilitating conversation between 2 parties in disagreement to try to reach a mutually acceptable if mediation is not possible, or if it's not practicable using the language of the ordinance. We'll move to an investigation. I'll interview the parties involved any other relevant parties, collect documentation and then generate findings, in fact, whether they're not. I can say

[56:07] based on the information and evidence in front of me that there has been, there is probable cause. The ordinance has been violated or not, and I'll act accordingly to resolve. Depending on the type of claim you have. You have a specific timeframe to file your complaint. Employment is 6 months. Housing is one year public accommodation, 2 months for failure to pay wages. It does not specify a statute of limitations. So we will apply these sort of municipal standard statute of limitations of 12 months for this

[57:12] questions geographically, if a person lives in Boulder, but works in Denver, or vice versa. They work in Boulder, but live in Denver, so only apply to employers, landlords, and businesses. In the city of Boulder. Somebody lives in Denver, but is doing their work in Boulder. They can file a complaint. Somebody lives in Boulder doing work in Denver, have no jurisdiction. It is limited to the within the city limits. I would say. Those folks I do get those calls frequently, or outside of city limits which we'll touch on in a little bit here. I'll direct those folks to other resources available.

[58:09] We're coming back to Red. Reggie decides I'm gonna I'm gonna give it a try. I don't think that's right, that they are saying they can't accept the vouchers, so he doesn't tell. The landlord goes to see the apartment he applies. He gets a rejection from the landlord. The landlord says, I'm not going to rent to you because you got a voucher. Reggie feels like something's not right about this. He looks online, finds the office of human rights, and he decides to file a complaint. This is a little bit more in depth of a what to expect. But this is my process confirmation. I'll contact both parties, notify them. Contact, the one party is contacting me, and so I'll notify the other party name. So in this case, Reggie's landlord.

[59:19] that a complaint has been filed against them, and schedule a time to have a conversation when applicable, when it mediation, when not applicable, or if mediation does not result in a agreement which it happens, started an investigation, and I developed findings, in fact, facilitate resolution where there is a finding that the ordinance has been violated. So these are just some possible outcomes. Folks resolve in mediation. That is pretty media. Our mediation team has a fairly good resolution, great findings of no probable cause, or dismissing, finding a probable cause for appeal or hearing, which is where you all would come in.

[60:28] so, coming back to it. I investigated it. Mediation did not happen, the landlord said. I didn't want to, which is within there, right? They were not willing to mediate. I got some screenshots of the listing. I got a denial email from Reggie's landlord. In my interview. Reggie's landlord told me I don't rent to people with. Section 8. Make findings that there is probably cause the ordinance is violated, and the resolution that I can

[61:10] may happen is make the landlord aware they cannot discriminate on source of income as a reason, for they cannot deny somebody for housing based on their source of income. This part here is important. I get questions around folks who have potential situations where they feel they've been discriminated against. They feel they've been wronged. It's an injustice, and they want to see some type of punishment or some type of wrong righted and so we're looking for recompense, or some type of payback for what happened.

[62:03] That is not what the ordinance is intended to do. The ordinance is intended to correct the wrong and kind of get folks back on their way. So what I can do, what is within my power is to make the landlord aware that there are laws protecting tenants against this form of discrimination, that they did in fact, discriminate. I cannot necessarily force them to house that person, because there may be other reasons why they would not rent that person or that housing option may no longer be available. So I need to just make sure that they understand where they went wrong, and that it does not happen again.

[63:04] Question for proceedings. So somebody who has a housing vouchers can use it in whatever sort of rental housing there is. There is 2 types of vouchers, one that is portable where a tenant can go and use it wherever kind of like it's just money that you use to pay around. There's a different type of voucher still technically called a voucher that is called project based where the housing assistance is tied to the actual unit, the apartment. And so

[64:15] one somebody. The assistance goes with somebody, the other. Whoever is living in that apartment is receiving that type of assistance. So that's a good distinction that incorporated here. But for this purpose it is we're assuming is the housing choice factor which people use wherever and that applies to mobile homes and applies to apartments, single family houses, all types of rental houses you mentioned, some of the people bringing the cases forward. They want some sort of punishment is the is your ability to hold people accountable different for the failure to pay? For example, will people actually get paid?

[65:13] I have a variety based on who I'm presenting to. I have a variety of different scenarios for failure to pay housing is the most common. So I'm wrong that one here for failure to pay wages. If there is a finding that somebody has not been paid or would have been paid, then. Yes, we would move to have the employer pay, and if it's against the law, then is there potential, legal? Are there potential legal pathways for the person to be punished? If they're breaking the law. Can you cancel for not paying somebody? Or like, Yeah, for discrimination?

[66:04] There are other places that they can present a complaint where there's a little bit more like teeth to what the enforcement aspect. So that is a conversation that I have like realistically. If there is a finding that being by ordinances are violated in this case. This is what a resolution would look like. Is that something that is of interest for you personally, or here's where else you may go and pursue damages, because there's now. with the passage of time, the State, and specifically, I think, a little bit more with what the enforcement than maybe can, in fact, pursue damages for claims to the state. For example.

[67:25] other questions. Okay, so here I have some data. So from 2024, which should be what you all a more complete here. What you all saw at the Retreat last year. You'll see in the top right hand corner the money that got paid to workers for failure to pay wages and plants.

[68:02] It is a much more cut and dry kind of situation rather than discrimination. Where we see 19 claims, one being resolved the remainder being dismissed for a whole variety of reasons, many being because we were counting a little bit more liberally what a claim was, and they were out of jurisdiction, and so I would not necessarily consider those a claim. Other times there was an investigation, or there was a mediation attempted the claimant, the person bringing the complaint

[69:04] didn't follow through, or there is a finding of no probable cause that the ordinance isn't violated, and that person did not appeal. So this is what I have. If somebody does disagree with 5 things, what is just. they are well within their rights to do. What can they do? So you can request a plus a judiciary hearing with the Human Relations Commission where us Commissioners would preside over a public hearing and ask questions of the parties involved, you can, I believe, compel those involved to appear?

[70:08] yes, you have the authority to administer oaths, that is, make people testify under oath under the penalty of perjury, and you can assign an issue subpoenas. and you may recall going back to like the retreat. I am one person looking at the situation through the lens. Conduct my work, and I do that in partnership with Roberto. If someone appeals and brings it to the Commission. You all may apply different lens because you have different perspective, different worldviews. You have different things like just points of view. And so that is something that I think is truly

[71:03] interesting and unique to this process, that somebody can bring that to a commission of their community members to have another look. There's not once you all would serve in this role. There's, to my knowledge, no sort of next step. If the complainant disagrees with the finding like in terms of the city's involvement, necessarily right? So there's no like if somebody disagrees with what the Commission does. There's no further like appeal that they can. There is. There is. Oh, that I need to change this. They can file what's called a 1. 0, 6, 8, 4, appeal with the State District Court.

[72:09] So this will if somebody wants to file with a different agency. Here are the agencies that I'm referring folks to the Colorado Civil Rights Division office of fair housing, equal opportunity or equal employment opportunity. Oh, okay. 2. Yeah. That is what's this? And my process? That is it for what I have for my presentation? Do you all have any questions around? process. You're involved in this general? Other questions.

[73:04] Got it? In terms of feedback on the presentation itself or the content, the format. I would be very open and happy to get your thoughts on that as well. You mentioned different audiences, and you were taking it on the road where what my potential, who my potential audience should be would be to. And I worked in partnership with Ingrid when she was in this role, and I was at community mediation we present to nonprofit organizations in boulder folks who are interfacing with community members who may have trust may have more exposure to populations who might be experiencing discrimination to make them aware this exists. This process here is what it looks like. This is how to connect somebody.

[74:11] And so places like our family resource center are other city agencies, such as your family resource schools. Our Latin facing organizations like also work with meet with on occasion, the district attorney's office, and they have preferred a case or 2 over to me, and vice versa. So anywhere that just serving populations. That I'm not. I am not in boulder is essentially who I would be hoping to present this to

[75:04] one thing. I guess I would want to know if I were serving people who were who might file complaints, or if I might want to file a complaint, is kind of like, if you have obviously de identified testimonials, or just quotes of like, this is what people who have filed the claim through this office have experienced. That would be really helpful. To give a little bit more. A human dimension to this like this is a process, but it is to serve human rights. So what are the feelings and experiences of people who go through this process is what I would like to know. and I have some of that I've been doing. Follow up surveys with claimants from the past going back to 2021 There is quite a bit of work to do in terms of, I think.

[76:05] establishing trust in the in the process. In the process. And I've gotten some positive feedback all over the place. But, I can definitely trying to build in some of that system appeal. There, have a question that is, that is the intention. I will have the like. The services that are offered in English and Spanish will have it in English and Spanish. Okay.

[77:11] can I ask a question to the Commissioners as well? One thing that we talk about a lot among staff is that there? And I think you've seen this. and the difference between people who feel as though they've been discriminated against, and people who can really kind of be helped, or even failure to pay wages. How many the difference between people who are seeking the service want want to be able to talk and get some relief to a painful experience right, and for whatever they're feeling or whatever they've experienced, the human rights ordinance is not always a a vehicle right where they can get that belief. And, like Christian said at the very beginning.

[78:06] one of our goals, as staff, is to make sure that people who are feeling just have been discriminated against, and are feeling that are experiencing wage theft or feel as though that might be happening. It's about the confidence to be able to come and say. I want to see if I could get some help and some relief in this process. And that's kind of a hard thing to share both like, Hey, this ordinance exists. We want everybody to know about it. It's important because it it tells something about how we think people should be treating one another in our community. And if you come to receive the service, there might not be anything we can actually do for you like. It's it's a hard. Those are both true, and they're really hard to talk about when it's about inspiring confidence, and trust that if you come we will try to help you, even though we actually don't know what the outcome is, so I just wanted to kind of bring that up. Our hope is that this is a way to have those conversations as well. So just

[79:20] wonder what your kind of thoughts and reactions are for, how we can try that. And I say, we of how we can help share this information out there, so that we have more people in the community know that it exists. This takes. take notice and- and make use of it. If they do have a a painful, discriminatory experience. So yeah, just would love your thoughts about that. I go back to. I would like some sort of testimonial of someone especially who went through it, and didn't see necessarily the accountability that they went in wanting to see, but maybe had an experience of feeling validated, or or knowing that that landlord wouldn't discriminate against section 8. Voucher holders in future. Something like that would be helpful.

[80:22] But I hear you that is a tough part ordinance development. So let's go that

[81:08] now, this is kind of just like a introduction. We have a conversation coming up towards the end of this year with our city council, who has requested to have some discussion around this. What might you all else like, want to know about organize the work. The sort of yeah, I guess the ordinance and the work going into that conversation? Or do you want to know more? Is there desire, for, like a deeper dive into a history, or the whatever whatever that looks like

[82:06] say so yes. can do that. I also guess, just as we move closer to that meeting with the Council would like as much context as we can have, so that because we have such minimal interaction with the especially with, like your part of the process. And, Carlos, you haven't been on a quality quasi judicial board, have you? Okay? So none of us have participated in that. So I guess I want to be more clear on, like what they're looking for from us like, I don't know if this is about the

[83:23] the challenges they've been having in their meetings, or but we can't really speak in a in a experiential way about the human rights ordinance and the violation process that you go through. So I would like to just know what they what, what can the 3 of us offer them? Yeah, we'll we'll be working on. Try getting a little bit more clarity on a little closer to the meeting on exactly. If there are more specific things they want to talk about. It's I don't know that it's necessarily you are suddenly need to transform into legal experts on the human rights. Or that's actually not what you're here to do because

[84:23] more of a dialogue. But I think it something that you could, you know, think about exploring at your retreat, for example, which will happen. Separate topic scheduling for the retreat. What? What? What might it be helpful for the Hrc. For you and your role in this community to understand about how people are who are among the protected class like, what does that look like, you know, maybe, whether or not it can be directly addressed through the ordinance.

[85:05] What is that? Who is experiencing that levels of discrimination? What does that look like in Boulder in 2025 might not be the same, as you know when the ordinance 1st came about, and what are some ways that you know Hrc. Members can help be ambassadors and kind of share that information. I mean, Carlos, you mentioned that connectors, and that's absolutely a great idea. And it's you all right, like what kind of what kind of knowledge is Christian said. Might you want to have that we can help with explore together? How can we co collectively better understand what people are experiencing in our community? Where the ordinance might be able to bring some relief, or at least we want people to try. And what are some other areas, you know, outside the ordinance, where? Where there's a task right for us to work on. So I mean, those might be some other ways to just think about this. You know this topic.

[86:11] thinking about the presentation, you know, kind of coming into the the retreat time and thinking about how you wanna how you might want to focus on this, even learning and and engagement complicated. Okay. thank you. Thank you. And I'll make sure to include this in the packet and my- my, follow up

[87:00] and say, Okay. sure. So I have a few points here, and one that is not up here because they got sent out this afternoon. But. as mentioned before. We have Juneteenth events. Monday of this week was the flag raising right around the corner over here, so you should see the Juneteenth flag not displayed. Thursday is the holiday city offices are closed on Thursday, on Thursday itself has the 2025 Juneteenth celebration from 4 PM. To 9 PM.

[88:11] There will be a number of music speakers and celebration going on over there. I will send you more information in my follow up for immigrant heritage month as well. On Saturday, June 21, st I should say, for this Saturday at dairy art Modis playback theater has what's your immigrant Heritage story. And then on Friday, at the Museum of Boulder almost all day, from 9 30 to 2 30, you can see in history and art or travelers in history and art. and I believe this will be a display of and sort of the culmination of a week long summer camp that has been going on for students, and so you can get to see some of the work of this

[89:11] young young folks who have been participating throughout the week. The last thing that did get added was the the actual discussion with City Council was scheduled for the 21, st I believe. Yes, so the 21, st which would take place are October. not October 21st would take place of our Thursday. Excuse me, October, Hrc. Meeting. Sorry it's not one day from 6 to 8. Roughly. of course, we love it. Anything else to add just that if you have any time, just

[90:07] questions about other programs or kind of projects in the city. Any other updates you'd like us to share. It's kind of a wide wide world, wild world. So sometimes we take a guess at things you might wanna know about. But if you have specific questions or things you'd like us to address in the staff update reaching out to Christian ahead of time. Best way for us to be prepared.

[91:51] How was the turnout?

[92:46] It's mostly. And my part, that's all. No, no, major issue.

[93:04] My only update is. I went to theater juvenile justice event a few weeks ago. and that was really incredible. People who had been just as involved as young children, and they woke their stories together, and there was a really powerful political message on what we could do, as people in the State of Colorado to support more equitable supportive distribution, particularly of the funds that go towards incarcerating young people rather than rehabilitating them programs. And that was beautiful. They lost their national endowment of the Arts funding. So they were hoping to take that on the road like you, Christian. But they're doing a big fundraiser right now.

[94:03] So if you know anyone that's looking to get to a great cause. That is one of them, and I will definitely keep my ear to the ground about if there's any time to call our legislator or state reps about that. Those bills coming up young people in the city of Boulder as well. It yeah, it's yeah. where are we? Yes. So from today I have that. Sorry. I'm just afraid to touch anything. I'm afraid to like switch and take notes. So I'm gonna real quick when we end right up my follow up. But it's basically continue.

[95:21] you're going to continue the conversation with difficult dialogues with Dr. Ho! And so I'm available to support love to be a part of that and then I will make sure that you all have a copy of the presentation. Not this one, but the other one that I shared tonight. I think that is it. For now inquiring about

[96:00] any changes to the guidelines for in person that I should have put in staff update, I suppose? But I forgot to is Next Tuesday, was the date. I put this in the email for you all about the meeting today. But also next Tuesday is the date that worked for most, for the appreciation with for, and so more information to come on that. But please do save that time. So it'll be next Tuesday at 5 30, the 25.th Yes, and then I think it's the conversation on the public comment. Or is that a follow up point for me.

[97:04] just for us to get a little bit clarification here about. If there are any changes to those I'd love to like, know a little like historical context like, was it was in person, comment a thing before Covid. And is is there any discussion happening around it? Because I totally agree with Mark, like, I think the lack of in person comment is like inhibiting a little bit more of the engaged feeling. Getting more people participating in this slide. I just love any clarity on what's happening there. If there's any anything we can do to help that along. Okay, Christian. One other thing is that at the end of this or no happening now is also recruiting, for in the 2 vacant positions on the Hrc. So if you have

[98:01] people that you think would be great who live in the city, please encourage them to watch for the application reach out with any questions. We will be continuing to think of people organizations who might want to help spread the word correct. We had to be able to share, like some of the things that you're already planning on doing for the remainder of 2025, and perhaps in 2026 like getting trained in the interview game, you know, focusing on the ordinance. You know. other things that you might talk about at the Retreat are good things to people say, well, what might I be doing

[99:02] so, anyway? Your your help and spreading one more thing kind of into the public comment. I'm I have like a curiosity, just because, like, you know. the sunshine law clearly is serving a great purpose and also clearly creates intention. One curiosity for me is like, is there any possibility of us having some like publicly visible thing that we can dialogue asynchronously with, similar to the hotline? Is that at all possible. like between meetings and conversation, and I just think it would be really helpful if we could have any kind of system. It enables us to stay in sync a little more, I mean other boards, commissions you can. You can say within the seat

[100:19] Christian and I met. Here's what we talked about. It can't be like any any dialogue that that feels like a meeting happening when you're not actually having a meeting. There's nothing preventing the member from reaching out by email to other commissioners are saying, I'll give you a call. There's there's lots of ways you can communicate with each other, John. More than 2 people at the same time, although my understanding is like, if we're talking about things, even if it's like me talking to Carlos and then me talking to Emily. It's like, if we're kind of talking about the same thing, there's like a daisy chain. But I know that's created some like legal precedent. And so it just feels like we're unable to like, keep things moving. I'm just be really curious if there's any way to create some systems around that

[101:11] good question, because to keep things moving in the form of of a continuous meeting. But can you have a continuous meeting that's publicly visible, like like the hotline is, the hotline is the continuously visible public. except that it's it's not. It's a forum in which city council is asking questions of staff, but they're also dialogue with each other. But I'll keep thinking about it because I I like inquiry around. This is like, How can we work within this? And if not, are there anything that we can go and talk to our like State legislators? Try and give them any clarity on that.

[102:21] Think it is useful to like? Keep a pulse on what people are thinking. Yeah. thank you. Hello. There! The last point

[103:10] so moved. Remoto 8 o'clock. Good job.