April 22, 2026 — Housing Advisory Board Regular Meeting

[0:02] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Historically, thank you. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Okie dokie. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Hello? HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: I'm Karen Hoskin, the Chair of the Housing Advisory Board. Welcome to our monthly meeting. Today is April 22nd. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Yes, 2026. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: So, we'll start with a roll call. We have some new board members here. We have a couple of guests as well. So, Brendan Selby. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Did I say that correctly? You did. Awesome. Okay, Chip, what is he? Here. David? HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Garabed? Garabed. Garibed. Here. I'll get that. Okay. Lauren Chevitz? Here. Philip O'Gren? Here. Sheriff Feinberg? Here. And then we have a new planning board liaison, Max Lord, is joining us. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: I guess I'm ultimately here. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: What, what? So then I guess I'm also here. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: And then we have Laura Scheinbaum. [1:02] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: As a guest, and then is Jeremy? Yeah, I think I just saw him following. He's coming in, okay, and then, virtually, I believe, Lisa out? Is that correct? Is that how you say it? Hood. Hood, thank you, is joining us tonight. So, on the agenda tonight. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Take a quick moment to introduce ourselves, and then we will approve the minutes. Excuse me, from last month, we'll have time for first public participation. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: The matters from the board, we have Public Housing Partners Overview, an ADU update, the Boulder Valley Comp Plan Recommendation to Council and Planning Board letter, and a review of the HAB Work Plan. And then we'll cover any matters from the staff. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: However, any final thoughts or suggestions, and adjourn. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: So, we're gonna have a retreat in… [2:04] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: May. And so we'll have more time to get to know each other, but again. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Lauren, Karin, Phillip, Chip, Hannah, Shara, Brenton, David, and then Max. Do we have time for a little bit more? HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Yeah, how about just a couple sentences. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: I'm gonna maybe just… I don't know. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Sarah why you decided to join the app. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: What? Interested and… HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: affordable housing and housing availability as, like, a human right. I think it's important to figure out how to provide that for folks. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Yeah, I, I worked in public service for… HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: 8 years, and was looking for a way to kind of get involved in the local community, and housing is an issue that I care about, and… [3:01] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Got interested in… When I lived in San Francisco, HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: where I moved from, and I'm excited to work at Liberty and learn more about, HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: I've lived in Boulder for about 30 years. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: I'm in the construction business, and we build a lot of affordable housing, thousands of units, so I'd like to be able to lend my experience and, helping to make affordable housing easier to build in Boulder, and also, learn about policy and how it gets to be. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Chip, do you want to say something about who you are, just so we can know? Sure, my name's Steven Hennessy, although I go by Chip, and you can call me Chip. My day job, I'm an attorney, I've been on the board for 2 years now. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: And I guess I originally got involved with this board because… let's see, I was doing eviction work in Boulder, and I got to see how our housing situation sort of plays out for some of the poorest people in our community. [4:13] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: And I think we have an affordability crisis in Boulder, and… HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: We need to take stronger action to ensure there's affordable housing so people can live here. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: My name is Philip, and, I got involved with, local politics, in a couple different campaigns, and I'm just… I just stayed politically active and, HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: I've done a lot of interviewing, podcasting-type work. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: And I'm just really passionate about housing issues, so… HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Karin, I'm a big believer in community-oriented housing, so you'll hear some of my opinions are flavored by that. [5:01] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Yeah, I don't know what else to say. Housing-related things. Interesting. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: My name is Lauren Chevitz, and I've been on the board about a year, and I'm an affordable housing developer. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Like I said, we'll get to know each other more at the upcoming retreat. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Okay, approval of the minutes. Did everybody have a chance to see the minutes from last month that Tiffany posted? Are there any, comments or corrections that need to be made? HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: I'll make a motion to approve the minutes. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Somebody want to second it? HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Second. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: All in favor? HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: None opposed? Motion approved. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Public participation. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Maybe we have anybody? [6:01] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: There's one member of the public online. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: I haven't raise their hand, we had a keyless puppy. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Give it a moment for them to click the raise hand. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Excellent. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: All right, we'll move on then. Okay, so matters from the board. We have Jeremy Durham and, Laura Scheinbaum at… HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: with Boulder Housing Partners, and they're gonna give us an overview about all the… All the same child here. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Welcome. Thank you. Thanks. Great. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Yeah, thanks for having us. My name is Jeremy Durham, Executive Director of Older Housing Partners. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Hi, I'm Laura Scheingbaum, I am the Chief Real Estate Officer for Boulder Housing Partners. I oversee our development activities, including [7:01] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Sort of origination, new construction, and then sort of our big rehab projects that would invest in our existing portfolio. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: So, we have a presentation. Working on it. Cool, alright. Is it possible for me to drive the presentation? HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Sure is. Take the next hour off. Won't tell Kirk. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Let's see if I can make it full transparent. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: That is affordable housing right there. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Yeah, we did a tour with the Housing Advisory Board, but I think, obviously, there's been a lot of turnover. We toured this site in… two years ago? Yeah. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Yeah, so we have a… I mean, we have a presentation that covers a number of topics, but we also know we only have an hour with you, and so we wanted to make it as open-ended as possible, and give you all just a chance to ask questions about things that you're curious about, because you all have obviously volunteered for this board for a reason, so we were just thinking that maybe we'd walk you through [8:15] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: you know, 4 or 5 slides recapping what we've been up to over the last year. And then just sort of depending on what questions we can dive into whatever is of interest to you. I think we probably have slides for… HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: most of the things that you might want to talk about. Maybe I'll be wrong about that, but, yeah, so with that said, for those of you that aren't familiar with HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: With us and our work, this is our mission, vision, and strategic priorities as an organization, so we're… we're a governmental organization, we're not for profit, so, we're not one of those, you know, greedy, developers that you read about in the, daily camera, or on Nextdoor. We really are here just to serve the community and to, you know, add community benefit. [9:01] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Throughout the organization through rent savings. So we're always striving to introduce as much affordability into the community as possible, whether that's reducing rents where we HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Already have existing units, or whether that's bringing new units online, which is what HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: what Laura really does for us, and you'll see in a minute just how much, she has been doing in that regard. I'll let you take this one, because it's… HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: That's kind of a recap of our last year, biggest year in BHP's history, yeah. Yeah, so a big part of what we do, not the only part, but we are, HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: you know, a developer, we manage all of our own operations, as well, and do resident services. But the piece that we'll talk about for this slide is just sort of the growth that we've experienced over the course of the past HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: few years. So in a couple different ways. One is we acquired the Golden West property, which is a senior, affordable, building that's over by the CU campus, 28th and Colorado. We took that over about two and… [10:05] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: 80-ish units, and then a big building that we renovated. So that was a big boost to, kind of unit count for us. And then we had 3 projects under development over the course of the past year that all came alive in 2025. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: The first was Senior Housing in South Boulder Hilltop. The next was Rally Flats, which is where the old Raleigh, sports health center was, if anyone remembers that. It's sort of an iconic health facility here. Boulder. Other units there, and that's, not age-restricted or nothing, that's just one, like, two-bedroom units. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: And then we also have, Hawthorne Court, which was the image that you saw. David's team actually helped us with that, and that is located over at 28th and Iris, kind of back behind the 24 Hour Fitness. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Across the street from Safeway and stuff. So, there's been quite a bit of affordable… new affordable housing that's come on the market, and it's leasing really, really well. We have very low affordability, and it's serving a variety of different, [11:08] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: folks who are wanting to live affordably in our communities with seniors, workforce housing with Rally, a little bit more family-oriented housing over at, Poughlin Corner. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: The other piece I'll mention at the end of the slide is the North Tower, so when we were acquired Golden West, there was a HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: A vacant building that had been affordable assisted living that had been closed down during COVID. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: When we acquired all of Golden West. We went in and renovated that assisted living facility into independent living units that are still very deeply affordable, and went through a process to really revitalize that vacant building and bring those units to life. So, we're in the process of those right now. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Ask a quick question? I saw North Tower, I was like, I wonder what that is. I typed in 1055 Battle Circle, and I just wondered if that was a typo? [12:04] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Or if, if the Golden West and North Tower have the same address. The North Tower is the North Tower of Golden West, so when we acquired Golden West, there was, yeah, good research on the fly here. Yeah, when we acquired Golden West, there was a North Tower that was vacant, and it was part of our arrangement with the nonprofit organization that was closing Golden West, I think. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: they wanted us to take over the property, and they also wanted us to fulfill their vision of bringing back North Tower back online. And so, HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Laura and her team jumped into action right away, and even though we, didn't acquire the property until January 1st of this year, or last year, we were able to have the North Tower completed before the end of the year, in addition to taking over and stabilizing the operation of the property. So… HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: When you add it all up, we ended up, you know, over 517 affordable homes last year between our acquisitions and our, [13:01] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: And our new developments, which brings us to, exactly 2,100 homes, actually. Which… HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: it always bothers me when it rounds out, because it makes it seem like we're just making shit up. This is the actual number. But I think more significantly, this represents a 33% growth for the organization in a single year. And, you know, for us, as we just look to kind of, like, stabilize our operation going forward, when we look at our HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: our housing options, we know that 25% of what we currently have came online just last year, just based on the way the math works out. So, this little graph here is meant to just kind of display the growth that we had throughout the year, starting at around 1,600 units, and then ending all the way at 2,100, which is a little bit… HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Covered up by the, the, Zoom. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: image there. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Additionally, this year, we also, brought 3 solar gardens online, which you can also see on the time frame, on the timeline, and we also have some slides on that as well. And just quick, when I saw 2,100 units, my brain kind of frizzed, because I expected it to be a number twice that size, and then I remembered that this is the BHP properties, not the total affordable. That's right. Can this… someone just remind me what the [14:13] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: what the total number of affordable units in both of us. 43… 43. Doug was on it here earlier? Okay, sorry. No, when… when, on the student orientation for the new folks. Oh, I see, okay. Two years ago, your strategic plan goal was 2,000 units, is that correct? HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Oh, I think what you're talking about was there was a… HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Yes, and now we've made it vet it, so… Yeah, so, what are your… Yeah, I think so. Our goals are to be, I think, responsive to the needs of the community. We've tried to move away from any, like, set units per year goal, and instead just basically line up a system where we are as resourced and as flexible as possible. So, for example, one thing that [15:00] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: you may have read about in the paper, or just be aware of, because you're all, you know, in the housing industry, or at least adjacent to it from being on this board, is that actually, like, we're in a time period right now where, like, rents are more affordable than they've ever been, which is great. It also means, you know, as a landlord, and BHP has two hats here, right? Because we fund our operation by being a landlord, right? But we also are a mission-driven organization that's trying to get rents as low as possible. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Both in our units and in the community. So it's kind of a unique situation where it wouldn't make sense at all for us to have another year in the next couple years, like the one we just had, where we're pushing 500 new units into the Boulder market. That would be really financially, risky for us. And so instead, what we're doing now is we're focusing on, okay, what does the community need now? It needs fewer units, but deeper affordability. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: And so we're trying to push the offerings that we're bringing online over the next couple of years into, like, the lowest levels of affordability for the people with the highest level of need. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: And so what we've tried to do is set BHP up not to be like, okay, every year we're going to do 100 units, 100 units. [16:03] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: But to instead have, at any given time, a number of options that we can pull from, so that we have a pipeline that is robust. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: And when the market and the community is needing a lot of workforce housing units in bulk, then we have properties that we can pull off the shelf, put into the development pipeline, and start to develop 100 and 150 units of, you know, 50 and 60% MI housing. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: But when we're in a place like now, where the market is really requiring HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: you know, 50 to 75 units of 30% AMI housing, that's where we're focused, and so we've tried to just bring, I think, a little bit more flexibility to that. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Before you, what is that middle bottom in development? Yeah, you want to talk about all? Yeah. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Yeah, so 34th Street is a project that is located, 34th and Belmont, basically, so if you were to head back, north off of Balmont at 34th Street, San Juan del Central is there. There's a vacant parcel of about 5 acres that we, purchased in partnership with the city a number of years ago, about 10 years ago, actually land banked it, and are now, we have a tax-free award, and we move forward with [17:16] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: our financial closing of this year, and hopefully start construction in the fall. So that's, 44 units. It's kind of townhome-style housing, for families, and a big open green area. It's kind of the last opportunity, really, within our, land-banked HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Parcels for us to do that style of… HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: kind of less dense housing. It doesn't pencil very well, it's quite expensive, to build non-dense, sort of stacked units, but this is a product type that we know there's a lot of demand for and a lot of appetite, sort of politically in the community as well. So, we're super happy to be bringing this one forward. Lots of green space, lots of just really, really elegant design. [18:00] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: There, so I'm excited about that one. That'll be next up in terms of getting under construction. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: And then we have two other ones, and as Jeremy mentioned, we try to have, sort of, at any given time. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: fully entitled, meaning, like, site review complete, having site review approval to be able to sort of pull something forward, depending on where the market is. And so, Alpine Balsam and Penrose, these are two kind of very different. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: opportunities for new board units, and for a while, we were moving forward on Penrose, which is 113 units off of 30th and HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Sort of the diagonal. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: And now we are sort of pivoting and leaning into Alpine Balsam, given our partnership with the city and the need for what we're seeing, really deeply affordable senior housing. We think that right now, that's going to be a little bit better serving our community than, than Penrose, and so we'll keep Penrose on a little bit of a, [19:00] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: back burner, so to speak, and really leaning into the Alpine Balsam site. Alpine Balsam, as you know, is right behind us. I've producing a lot of the work happening over there. That's driven by the city's… city team right now, the city facilities team. They've built, a big flood… floodway to help with HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: flood mitigation from North Boulder Park, and then there's the City Municipal building, the Civic Center, which will house the city council chambers and a bunch of office spaces for city workers, city employees. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: And then there's 4 residential parcels out there as well, two of which will be affordable, and we will be developing those. That's 144 units, 155 age-restricted for seniors, and the other 89 units for… HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: age-restricted. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Housing, kind of right in the middle, and then there's two market-rate parcels that we will eventually sell, and have another developer come in and build those. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: And then Penraz, like I mentioned, it's, Overall. [20:02] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: That's the office rehab that Pete at Coburn came to talk to us about previously. It's hard to recognize that from this photo, right? It doesn't look like that photo, does it? Or does it? HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: For Penrose? Yeah. Pete Webber can even talk to you about that? The building on the right should be… Yeah, I know, but it just… it just looks different than what I remembered seeing in that presentation. So yeah, there is, adaptive reuse at 3300 Penrose. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: That is, quite expensive, and we hope to keep when we advance the project. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Okay. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Other things we've done this year, so, you know, being a mission-driven organization, like we said, HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: There's no shareholders, we exist for the community, and so we're actually trying to kind of reinvest everything that we can into the community. So one thing that we did this year is also, in part of taking over Golden West. [21:00] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: our goals were to get the North Tower back online, as well as to reopen the restaurant that was in that building for many, many years, and so that's something that we were able to do this year in partnership with Imagine. And so, right now, that restaurant is up and running. Let us know if anybody wants to stop by and check out the affordable housing community and get a meal, we can set that up for you. But right now, they're serving about 60 affordable meals every day. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: And, you know, the special events and things like that. We're able to serve over 200 people over Thanksgiving, which is pretty cool. I was able to go by with my family as well, so that was really nice. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: mentioned our solar gardens, we're trying to, obviously, just do our part for sustainability in the community. you know, we were able to bring… to sign contracts for 3 solar gardens last year, which is about 25% of our housing stock, even at our new size, and so… HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: When you break it down between our current rooftop solar, our current solar gardens, and our future solar gardens, we're hoping to be at 75% of our power from solar by the end of this year. [22:10] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: We're gonna continue just to march forward as we add more units. We're gonna keep trying to find more solar gardens to subscribe and invest to, so we can keep that going until we're at 100%. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: This is just some stats if you're interested in, sort of, BHP's, operations financially. Something that we… HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: are big, big proponents of is investing in community assets. And so, we view all of our assets as, like, community assets, and so you see that number there, like, $680 million. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: We didn't spend $680 million, because we were able to work to leverage outside federal and state resources, and so now there's $680 million of real estate that is owned by BHP for the benefit of this community. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: provide benefit to Boulder residents forever. So, you can start to think about it almost as, like, a universal basic income program, in the sense that our typical resident, depending on the market, like, in the typical market, is going to be saving at least $1,000 a month. [23:12] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Relative to, market rate land. And for that $1,000 a month, on an annual basis, this community pays nothing. Absolutely nothing. In fact, actually, we make money. And when we make that money, we take it and we do stuff like this. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: So, it really is a really, really great system to leverage outside resources, invest in capital assets for the benefit of the community. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Are all of your assets, like, fully insured? HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Yes HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Yes, that's… yeah, that's… that's heavily required by everybody we work with, as well as our own, just, governance practices. So, yeah. This is just some of us in the news last year. Just one quick thing, too, and you all probably know this, because you are more, [24:01] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Aware of the affordable housing things, but… HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: On that slide, we do get resources from the city and gap financing when we build something, but it's important to know that we don't get ongoing operating subsidy from the city or general… or at all from the federal government. So this is money that comes in to help finance everything at the outset, and then we operate really in the same way that a market rate HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: operator would operate their properties, we just get less rent, and so our needs are then at the front end, and we have to sort of power load equity into our deals at the front side, because we don't get any ongoing operating subsidy to sort of make up the difference in those rents, if that makes sense. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: This is just us in the news last year. Obviously there was a lot going on for us, so, HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: we were, we were busy and, and kind of out there last year. We're gonna be a lot quieter over the next couple years as we kind of reload and move through the next phase of our pipeline. [25:00] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: So we have a whole bunch more information, but I think this is where we wanted to pause and just see what you all want to talk about, what's on your mind, and… HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Glass, go through any questions you have. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: I have a couple questions. So, with… HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: That's a huge addition to your inventory this year, or last year. So, I'm curious, what, HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: What kind of… category percentage of AMI is… is… HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: The easiest to lease to, and where… HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Where are you kind of struggling to fill those places? And… HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Yeah. Yeah, so certainly the easiest is when you can have a federal voucher attached to it, where the, the resident is actually just going to pay a portion of their income towards HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Right? And that's gonna be about a third. That's the easiest. Those fly off the shelf. There's never any availability. Now, when we don't have that resource available, and you just start to look at [26:02] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: you know, 60% AMI units, 50%, 40%, 30%, it's really simple. The more affordable, the faster it's going to fly off the shelf. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Now, that said, there is actually sometimes still challenges, even at 30% AMI, and the reasons are not always immediately intuitive, until you stop and kind of think about, like, what's actually happening at the individual family level. So, one thing that is happening, I think especially right now when the economy is kind of rough. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: is that… HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: people who are making 30% of the area median income are people who are making about $30,000 a year, right? So, somebody who's making 60% of their area median income is making about $60,000 a year. The federal standard, the state standard, the city standard, everybody's standard is you can pay a third of your income towards rent. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: If you really think about that, the standard actually doesn't make a lot of sense. I'm gonna tell you why it doesn't make sense. So, if you take somebody who's at 60% AMI, say, okay, you're gonna pay $20,000, [27:05] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Dollars a year towards your rent. You still have $40,000 to live on. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: That's good. I mean, you can probably make that work for a family, right? If you go down to a 30% AMI person, and you try to ask, okay, what can they really afford for rent? So the federal government's gonna say they can afford $10,000 a year, in… in rent. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: there's only $20,000 left for everything. That's your education, that's your transportation, that's your healthcare, that's your taxes, right? And the taxes is coming off the $30,000. What are you gonna say? You gotta eat. You gotta eat, your food. Like, I mean, it's absolutely everything, it's your gas money, and so… HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: In an economy like this, even 30% AMI units can become a challenge to rent because people's options start to become, well, do I want this 30% AMI unit? HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: that the government says is very affordable for me, or do I want to go, like, double up with somebody, or move back home, live in my, you know, parents' basement, or whatever that looks like? And so, I think it's just something, you know, for folks that are in the housing policy space, which you all are, in virtue of being on this board today, I think should be front of mind, is that, [28:09] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: the, sort of, a third of your income affordability metric. There's a range that it makes sense. I think it's a pretty narrow range. It also gets really absurd on the higher income end of the range, like somebody who's, you know, an actual, like, billionaire. They can afford to spend 99.9% of their income on rent, and be completely fine, and still have more expendable income than everybody else in each room combined. And so. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: you can kind of see that the… at the ends of the income spectrum, that doesn't make a lot of sense. But so, for us, we're, you know, we're focused nonetheless on those 30s and 40s, because that is where there's the most need. The 50s and 60s are where the market is much slower, because it's just closer to market rents, and that is driven HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: by, frankly, bureaucracy. If you are somebody who is choosing between an option where you can just show up, give the landlord a couple pay stubs. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: And move in in a couple days. Or another option where you're gonna have to go through weeks of compliance, income certification processes, you're gonna have to do it every year. This option is looking a lot better, where you don't have to do all that stuff, it's just a lot more flexible and a lot easier for people. [29:18] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: And so that is something that I think, as an industry, we also need to really, really pay attention to, is how hard we've made it for people to verify their income, because we're so worried about somebody getting this benefit that maybe doesn't deserve it, you know? HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: What dollars and what… funding, requires that yearly verification? Oh, that's a really good question. So, HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Yeah, it's all… I mean, it's all of it, it's all of it. So we get federal, state, and city money. The city has been a great partner, I think, in particular over the last four to five years, at sort of continually relaxing some of the requirements around this. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Taking it, I think, as far as they can to make things more flexible and easier. [30:04] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: But yeah, I mean, it's kind of all of it. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Can you explain how rent is actually calculated? Like, I, HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: I talked with a resident of a BHP property who once told me that he started making a certain amount more than some threshold, and then there was a stepwise function, I just ran my way up, and I didn't… I didn't know how to verify that, or… Yeah, yeah. But I'm kind of just curious, is, like, is the unit sort of, HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: set at an AMI, and then the rent is set, and then someone comes and gets matched to it, or does the person come along, and you match the rent to that person, or… It's both. So what I mentioned before, like, the federal voucher program, that is a program that sometimes is attached to a unit. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: And so, somebody will show up and be like, I'm applying for affordable housing, and for that person, as their income goes up and down, their rent is going to go up and down. And it can feel like a lot to people. I mean, if you go from making $30,000 a year to $40,000 a year, like, your rent is going to go up by, like, $700 a month. [31:10] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: That's substantial, right? So… and that's just the formula. So, if… but most of our product is actually not touched by the federal voucher program, and for those units, it's just set by HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: what is deemed affordable for somebody earning 60%, 50%, 40%, and 30% of the area median income. And so, if you come and qualify for a 60% AMI unit. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: you could be somebody that earns, say, 50% AMI, and you're qualified for that unit because you're below 60% in AMI, and then you're just getting the 60% AMI rent. The fact that you're a 50% AMI doesn't really help you. The rent is the rent. It doesn't go up and down based on your individual income. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: That example you gave was my num… kind of minding. You know, you said $30,000 to $40,000, your rent might go up $700? I'll maybe do $900 real quick, maybe about $500, yeah, yeah. So, like, you'd have $6,000 more in rent, so you got… you got a $4,000 raise, basically. Yeah. Yeah, it's tough. [32:13] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: lower taxes. So is 60% AMI about where affordable housing starts to compete with the market? HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: So it used to be, like, 80% AMI, 75% AMI. Right now, 52% AMI is the market. 52, yeah. Which is really stunning, and this is a development that is, like, months in the making, not years in the making, but months. It's like, this was not the case one year ago. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: And it's also… I mean, something we should all just know is that it's also not going to be the case in two years. This is a temporary phenomenon. Right. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Because what's driving it is… I mean, it's a number of factors. Some of it is the… is the economy, but a lot of it is actually just that Denver permitted a extremely high number of, apartment buildings, in 2024 and 2025. [33:04] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: And the, like, absorption rate, the number of people moving to Denver from the state's stagnant. And so, as a result, there's, like, 80,000 new apartments, or 40,000 new apartments in Denver, just in that time period, but Denver is still only bringing in, like, 8,000 to 12,000 people a year. And so now there's this need to, like, absorb all of these units. So, we tend to think of Boulder as, like, this bubble. Boulder's not a bubble, like, not economically. It's not a… HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: It's not a bubble economically at all. We are very influenced in the rental market by what's happening in the Denver metro area, and so you have landlords in Denver with brand new units that are saying, we've got to rent these up. We have commitments to our lenders, we have commitments to our investors, so we're giving 3 months free rent. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: That's kind of the norm right now in Denver, is 3 months free rent for an apartment. And so… and again, like, I think that, like, as BHP, like, we have to just be cognizant of the fact that we're on both sides of this. Like, we're advocates for more affordable housing, while also being an organization that, like, funds our whole operation with rents. There's no, like Laura said, there's no city subsidy, there's no federal money that funds us, so we're kind of… [34:06] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: we're kind of torn here, but it's, you know, the… the questions about whether or not you can, reduce supply, I think that Denver has answered them. The answer is yes, you can. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Now, why is it going to go back up? Because Denver has swung the other way very, very hard. They've swung the other way… Just in 2 years. Just in 2 years, so yeah, now they're pulling, like, almost no permits. Even the ones that are, like, moving to the process, there's a lot of reason to believe they're not going to get built, because a lot of new, very challenging regulations that Denver's put in place. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: The developers are saying no thanks to. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: And so, I think that, you know, that combined with the fact that investors are looking at that market and saying, well, if you've got… you've got to get 3 months free rent and vacancies and… HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: 12%, 10%, no thank you. You're just not going to see that much building in the next, 2-3 years. [35:01] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: I saw today that Q1 2026 was the first quarter that rents did not decrease in Denver, so… Yeah. Yeah, so it's already started. Stabilizing. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: So, I look back, I spent about 3 years defending tenants in eviction court. BHP evicts tenants in Boulder County Court than any other landlord, which is understandable, because BHP leases HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: to more low-income people, probably, than any other landmark. But one thing I observed in my work is that HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: BHP probably is, like, the best value, for lower-income people, because for a good price, they get often a very nice, relatively large unit, you know, if they need 3 bedrooms. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: But it's not the cheapest housing in Boulder. Yeah. There's cheaper housing on the free market often than what BHP offers, because, again, a lot of these BHP properties are HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: really nice and new, and some of the cheapest housing is… not very nice and new. And I'm just wondering, in terms of, like, it seems like a lot of these BHP properties are these new-build developments that are… I mean, they look kind of like luxury apartments. [36:15] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Does BHP, like, consider in its growth plans, like, acquiring older properties that could be a lot cheaper for tenants? HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: And, like, what are the plans in that regard? I mean, these are beautiful, and I know that people get a great deal on them, but I'm just wondering if, you know, BHP's focus is low-income housing. What kind of older, cheaper units are out there? I mean, so great, what a great question, and yes, I mean. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Acquisition, unit acquisition has been part of our growth pattern over the past 10 years. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: We've not done as much of that in the past five, mostly because even though it might be considered less expensive housing, when somebody was to sell it, they still want a cap rate, and the land is really valuable, so you're still paying top dollar for [37:07] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: a probably pretty crappy apartment complex that needs a ton of capital investment, because that's typically when somebody wants to go and sell something. So, the asset is tired, we come in, we buy it relatively cheaply, but then have a big capital need to be able to put into it. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: And we're also paying, you know, what… HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: we're competing with other private developers in the market to be able to afford to purchase it. So, it is challenging to be able to find the equity, to be able to buy down at affordable times, even if it's, you know, historically been in the market at sort of a very, very low price point. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: So I think that's a little bit of a challenge in terms of acquiring older, as you said, sort of not great properties. We tend to like those in the community just because it's called naturally occurring affordable housing. I mean, we don't like a slumlord, of course, but it is something that serves a purpose in our community. [38:05] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: We have done some, though. Yeah, Tantra, yeah, I mean… Yeah, we've done… we bought Tantra Lake Apartments, which was a big purchase for us in 2017. We slowly brought that into the affordable world. It started off at 40% affordable, so you also have to attrition anybody who's living in the apartments to affordable, so you don't want to… HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: have to, inadvertently displace somebody and have them forced to relocate in terms of, you know, bringing in affordable covenants too quickly, and then they don't qualify, and then they get displaced. So, there's a sort of an art and a dance to making sure that you're not, HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: unduly this, impacting folks that are already living in some of it, but Tantrow is a big one. We also bought, 31 units in Trout Farms. We bought HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: A couple properties, Cedar and Casey, a couple properties right here along Broadway, so… 2037 Walmart. So, yeah, so, so we do it, and then we acquired Golden West as well, so again, I think it's… it's definitely part of our… [39:11] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: part of what we're always scanning for. We have brokers that we work with that send me stuff all the time. We also just don't always advertise those properties as much. Oh, yeah. Yeah, like, when we show up for a presentation, it's gonna be what we built last year. And I guess the flip side is these beautiful, brand new properties 40 years from now. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Won't be brand… beautiful brand new properties, so that's just kind of… HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: the cycle of building. But PHP is in the public eye, right? And so, they're expected to maintain pristine properties, right? So even if it's an older property, they still need to renovate, they still need to keep it in good condition. And when you build one, you're also building for a 15-year compliance period, so you don't have the opportunity to bring additional resources into the project. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: During that compliance period. So you're really building for a hold of 15 years, and so your product needs to be [40:05] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: pretty bulletproof from day one, otherwise you're gonna end up, you know, having the degradation that we saw within the public housing capital B, capital H program, historically. So I think it's important to note that we're building to a certain standard because we know we have this compliance period and we don't have the opportunity for capital reinvestment within that period of time. Also. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: We love… we love Boulder, and Boulder has very, very high, building standards. The building goods here are amazing and great, and force us to build, a very HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: That's a nice, expensive high. Yeah, I think Lauren also has, I mean, a great point in that we're just… we are in the public eye, and the properties that we do have that are older and more tired, like, they're the ones who have… HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: We hear about from politicians and such, and it doesn't mean that they're not providing a great community benefit. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: And we're trying to invest as much as we can in those. I think you may have seen on the earlier slide, we invested, like, $3.25 million in our portfolio last year. And we continue to try to keep properties as nice as possible, but, yeah, sometimes just being a public agency, there's just expectations around us not managing projects. [41:16] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Yeah. A little bit more. You mentioned transitioning, kind of, from just building a sheer number of units with the changing economic environment. Can you expand on, like, what the next couple years looks like in terms of your strategy? HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Yeah, I think just being a little more measured in our pacing in terms of new construction, even though it was great that we brought all that out, it wasn't necessarily intended. They were supposed to be spread out a little bit more than they were, but that's the nature of development. So, but I think, you know, measured, and then also, I think we have a really great slide that shows deep affordability, and so I think there's HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: There's been a lot of focus over time about the number of units, but as Jeremy mentioned earlier, there's now… we're trying to really understand where the market is and where the people are that don't have choice are, who they are and what their incomes are, and providing choice to them at a very low… [42:09] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: And so what that requires, then, is deeper subsets. That might mean that we have to go slower to be able to reach the lower AMI levels that are, being, that are needed in our community. So instead of maybe building 500 units in 3 years, it might be HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: We're, like, 150 units, but we have really, really deep affordability, because that's where the demand is, and that's where the need is. What are the biggest obstacles, like, HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: You know, political or pathetic to… HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: That you would see to achieving that deep flexibility goal. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: It's money, right? So there's an assumption that, like, well, why can't… you know, we've always… there's gap financing, and there's tax credits, and there's different forms of equity that we bring in, but for every 10% of AMI that we dip below 60%, there's a cost and debt proceeds that we have to make up somewhere. So if we… [43:02] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: go from 60% to 50%, it's typically $45,000 in debt proceeds that we have to bring in from another source, and it just keeps going down. So if you're going from a 60% to a 30, all of a sudden, you're at basically another $150,000, and that's just one unit. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: And gap financing. So, how do you make that up? How do you convince the people in your community that, no, we're not going to do 10 units, we're going to do 1 unit, and it's going to be really deeply important? I mean, that… HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: But it's a little bit what we're doing today, sort of orienting people to sort of that bet. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: need of our community. We've created, like, a short little tool to demonstrate this dynamic. If you want a two-minute, like, tutorial, you might find this, remedial, but you might not. So, like, this building is meant to illustrate, like, the cost to build a building, and there's, like, three segments here. The reason that there's three segments is when we build, we build with HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: It's just 3 things. Debt, equity, gap. Gap is, like, what we locally are responsible for. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Equity is what we get from an investor. That is what we get from a lender, so, [44:08] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: We can send this out later, but this… like, this one slide here, I really believe, actually captures, like, most of the essence of, like, affordable housing and the different toggles. But for now, we'll just go through the debt part of it. So… HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: when you go to finance affordable housing, and you go to get your loan, it's not, like, the amount of loan that you get, it's not arbitrary. Like, it's based very, very specifically on your ability to repay the loan, your monthly loan payments. That's what the bank is looking at. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: And so that is going to be a function of really two things. Your projected net operating income and your interest rate. Your net operating income is a function of your operating revenue and your operating expenses, right? And then your operating revenue is a function of your rent levels and your vacancy. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: So, what that means is that HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: You get more rent, you see that? That's gonna go up. So if you're doing a 60% AMI project, you have more rent, you can get more debt, right? It's pretty simple. When levels go down, though, you're doing a 30% AMI project, AMI project, you're gonna get [45:09] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: You know, significantly less debt. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: The gap goes up. The gap goes up, yep. So vacancy, same thing. This is why this is an issue right now. If you're gonna have to model 5%, 10% vacancy instead of 3%, as it was a couple years ago. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Then you're gonna see less debt. If you can have a really good vacancy number, you're gonna get more debt. And this just plays out for every dynamic in here, so if you can manage your operating expenses… Is that why PSH projects basically can't carry debt? Exactly why they can't carry debt. Yep, exactly. And for them, it's a number of things, right? So their operating expenses are really high. Like, PSH projects, they're oper… and all this stuff is… it's a zero-sum game. Like, it's all just… HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: we're invisible here. We're just telling you, like, what's happening. Like, the inputs and the outputs are what they are. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Yeah, so for permanent supportive housing, like, you could have, on top of your cost to actually maintain the building, like, a $12,000 a year, like, services budget that you have to cover. So with those kind of operating expenses, like, even if you have, really good rents through vouchers or something like that, you're just not going to be able to carry very much debt, yeah. [46:16] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Does EHP maintain statistics on its eviction rates? HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Yeah, we do. I just, yeah, I saw you were here, so I actually asked our Deputy Director, like, kind of where we're at, and he said we're at about 12 a year right now. I don't have any open… No, no, you're good. I'm not adverse to you guys. We're at about 12 in the year right now. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: 12… No, 12 convictions that get all the way through the process, yeah. There's a higher number than that… So, they send in the sheriff? HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Yeah, exactly. No, no. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Yeah, I mean, I don't… a lot of… That's a weird stat. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Yeah, a lot of evictions, like, the tenant will get a judgment against them, and then they go down. You know, the sheriff never went in and forced that. Yeah. Yeah, we have more than that. That sounds very low. Yeah. We start more than that, but it's because the process for them to get financial assistance requires, the eviction process, which is not something that we like. We'd love to see that change locally. Well, yeah, I mean. [47:18] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: That's a… HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: I don't go to eviction court very often anymore, but a big critique that I have of how Boulder has sort of HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: addressed evictions. It's basically, like, there's this ARPA money for the Biden administration for emergency rental assistance. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: But in order to get that money, an eviction needed to be filed against the tenant, and basically this very expensive process developed where the… and it's not just BHP, it's all the affordable housing providers. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: you know, someone would fall one month behind, and they're like, let me evict them, send them to court so they can get the money, and all these lawyers get involved in the dockets, and it was just a way of moving government money around while clogging up our… [48:03] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: our courts and judges, and costing people money, and… Yeah, but to play devil's advocate, during COVID, there were… HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: so many people that weren't paying rent, and they learned that their neighbor wasn't paying rent, and their neighbor wasn't paying rent, and so they just stopped paying rent altogether. And so, BHP has to pay on that debt, but HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: They're not getting any… No, I mean, I totally understand that if BHP doesn't pay people who doesn't pay rent, there's gonna be no affordable housing. They need to free up units where people don't pay rent. It just seemed like a very expensive way to get money from one bucket, government bucket, to another, to summon people to court. And I guess just an impression I've always had is, you know, where BHP is. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: probably the largest landlord in Boulder, and it has a lot of… it's evicting people. Maybe send a BHP representative over to the courthouse on Fridays, because even though the city has EPRIS staff and eviction prevention, they don't… they… they're with the city, they're not with BHP, and they can't really speak with BHP, and [49:08] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: I just think that could facilitate mediation efforts and things along those lines. That's just an opinion I have. So I should say, I completely agree with you on, sort of, the policy point of, like, let's not make people go all the way to court to get assistance that they need. Also, an eviction lawyer that understands those dynamics that HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: they don't pay the rent, we don't have the housing, we need you in front of the Colorado legislature. Seriously, that's something that… I've gone in front of the Colorado legislature, so… I wanted to ask about, senior housing, so I think it's awesome that you guys did. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Golden West, and the North Tower, and Hilltop, and some others. So, there's been a lot in the local news lately about declining birth rates, and schools closing, and just the… HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: general aging of boulder, so I'm just curious, is that… HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: I'm assuming that's something in your mind about future… [50:03] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Yeah, I mean, I think we're, you know, market studies always drive what we, you know, put forth. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: you know, within our pipeline of the different projects that we have available, but we certainly anecdotally also know what has been leasing most, easily, so to speak. So, you know, Hilltop was a really easy lease-up. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: North Tower and sort of the vacancy that we acquired when we brought on people west has also been absorbed really, really easily. So, again, that's why we're leaning into the 55 units of age-restricted housing that we're gonna build next over here at Alpine Balsam. So, yeah, I think that, it is something that we are HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Very aware of, and see… see that there's quite an appetite and demand for that product. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Yeah, and housing's also one of the reasons that the population of Boulder is getting older on average, because there's not good options for families, and so that's why we're focused on projects like our 34th Street development, which is, like, townhomes geared towards families at the lowest possible AMI. [51:07] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Just briefly explain the governance structure. BHP, I understand, like, it's not actually controlled by the city, it's quasi-independent. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Could you just talk through that? Yeah, yeah, so we have our own board of commissioners, that are appointed by the mayor of five-year terms. So it's not directly controlled by the city, but the city is, you know, certainly our most important partner, and we are, in a lot of ways, like, the affordable arm of the city, even though we do have independent governance. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: And then authorized by the state, so, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Depending on who you ask, we're either a creation of the federal government, the state government, or the city government. What's the difference as a practical matter between EHP and FISTL? HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Yeah, so we are technically a government, as we're Thistles, a nonprofit. Our board is appointed by the mayor as a port, as opposed to, however, Thistle's bylaws, you know, govern that process. [52:04] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: We are tax exempt, and exempt from certain fees, that type of thing, as a government agency. We're also regulated by HUD. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: sorry, the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development in several ways, but this still is not. We also administer federal housing choice vouchers. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: And I think that's… that probably covers it. Also, maybe an order of magnitude larger? Yeah, certainly larger, yeah, yeah. Or two orders of magnitude? Yeah, I think maybe four. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: I think you guys both have a hard stop in, like, 5 minutes, is that true? 7 minutes. 7 minutes. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Last burning questions for… Is there anything you need from Housing Advisory Board? That's a good question. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: We get to recommend things to Council, so if you wanted Council to do something, now's your… now's your chance. Not so much like Council, I think it's just education around this, which is, like, so we have just sort of, like, a basic sources and uses here. This is a 60% AMI project. [53:15] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: You can see here that, like, you can get about $5.5 million in debt. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: You can get around 8.6 in outside tax credits, you can get about $5 million from the city at, say, $100K a unit, to get this project built. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: That's 60% MI, though, so I think that, like, we've gotten so locked into, like, as an affordable housing industry, like, what's a $100,000 subsidy to build a unit. It's $100,000 subsidy to build HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: 60% of my unit, which is to say, to provide that level of net affordability. Which you can see here is, like, even in this market, it's still, like, you know, for this whole project, would provide, like, $183,000 a year in affordability to the community relative to market. And that's calculated based on the rent savings somebody's gonna experience based on paying a lower rent than a market rent. Yeah, yeah. [54:03] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: you go do a 30% AMI project, that goes to zero, right? HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: now you need $210,000 a unit from local sources. Our gap goes to 210,000. And it's like, I think that there's this worry, like, oh, that's way too much, it's unreasonable. We can't spend this much on affordable housing. But that's only if you really think about it from the perspective of, like, units. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: If you think about it from the perspective of what are we actually saving people in rent. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: A 30% AMI unit is going to rent for so much more than… so much less than a 60% AMI unit. You actually jump all the way up to, like, $691,000 of savings relative to market, which is $508,000 more than that 60% AMI project. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: which… HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: is really not a bad investment at all for a $5.5 million. Now, we have this community asset that's going to be providing this level of savings for people, allowing this level of affordability in the community, people that have the fewest options of anywhere out there, [55:05] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Those hard costs are too low, by the way. Yeah, I backed them into the $100,000 a unit that everybody's very attached to, but yeah, they are too high. Yeah, when we talk about folks that are just, like, at that lower income spectrum, this graph here is meant to show, like, what are your housing options? HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Based on your wealth, and so you can see here, if you're earning, like, $200,000 or more, like, basically everything in the rental market is affordable to you. And then you start to kind of work your way down, and once you get into even, like, $40,000 to $45,000 a year, HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: 14% of the market is affordable to you, right? And then you get down to 25 to 29, it's not nothing, right? And so, there's actually, like, a number of people that are in that place. I mean, there really is. A third of our housing… a third of our community is, [56:06] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: at or below 60% of area median income. And so you can kind of do the math, like, about, you know, 15% are going to be below 30% of area median income, so about 15% of the community really has, like. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: you know, 2-3% of the housing stock is available to them. The average income for folks that live with us is 27%. Yeah, $27,000. Of AMA. These two slides are hurting my brain, because I feel like, when you… when you hear someone give a narrative about HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: the missing middle housing. You know, the notion that HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: if you make $100,000 to $150,000, that, you know, 99% of it is affordable. I don't… I don't even know what that means. Certainly you wouldn't see that on a slide. Yeah, because a family of four that makes $100,000 could afford a one-bedroom apartment. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: And also, there's the difference between, like, ownership and rent. Like, the middle class has many rental opportunities within the city that do meet their affordability needs. They simply can't afford a house. They can't afford to buy a single-family home. That's correct. And this is not one… this is not one bedroom, just for the record. This is created by an actual, like, market analyst, and it's based on, like, the family size, but it is rental, right? So this is rental. This slide is in here. [57:24] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: I thought we'd get the missing middle question. So, yeah, this one… HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: hurts my brain in a similar way, because, you know, one of the… you know, when you ask city council to relax, like, the… HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Inclusive… inclusionary housing, requirements. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Four missing middle projects, you know, to have some give and take with that. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: City council will say, no, no, no, we want to maximize the amount of affordable housing we can build. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: And I… I… it seems like the debt versus the 4% state LIHTC, thing, like. [58:09] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: for missing middle housing, they would just flip. You'd be able to have more debt, but no subsidies. Yeah. Anyways, it just… I'm half a bank's narrative here, but it seems like… You're exactly right. That is exactly what happens, and that's why there's… HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Because you don't need a subsidy. We don't need a subsidy to build middle-income rental housing in Boulder, and it's been built for years, it continues to be built, it's always been built, will always be built. It is not a need in this community. Like, on record with that, it is not a need. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: But we have virtually nothing in deep affordability, like, below 30% Amazon. We have, yeah, we have virtually nothing that is, like, available. So I think that's what I said, like, we have 2,100 units, and our average HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: our average income is $27,000, so our average person is below 30% AMI. And correct me if I'm wrong, because I know you're really tight on time, but, like, that's kind of the… and we've obviously met before, but, like, the prevailing message that you're trying to get across is that growth will be smaller [59:11] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: In terms of amount of units, if we prioritize deeply affordable units. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: But we have virtually nothing available on the market, like, through BHP or otherwise, for people who are making less than $30,000 a year, which is some 15% of our community, and an even higher percentage of our 60,000 commuters. Well, I think the reality is those people need vouchers, but the vouchers are there from the federal government. Sorry, you just said 30% of the community? I said it's, like, it's like 30% HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: AMI is, like, 15% of the community. I think that's about it, right? HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: I thought you were trying to say it was 30-30. No. But I mean, it's still, like, pretty substantial. It's not a standard distribution. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Yeah, no, you summed it up. You summed up our message exactly. It's gonna… we're gonna go slower, it's gonna cost more. [60:02] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Per unit, but this is what's needed. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Yeah, and this chart does not capture homeownership, right? But I think that the… our basic point in bringing this, because we get this question, why don't we do middle-income homeownership? Why don't we do middle-income homeownership? And it's… HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: I think for us, it's like, when you have this many people that just don't have any option, this is priority one, right? Like, this is priority one. Like, it'd be awesome if people that were middle-income could also buy a house in Boulder. That's, like, a nice-to-have. This is a must-have. I think that's where we are as an organization. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: That's right. We'd rather have people renting than sleeping on… Exactly. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: whatever time. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Thank you so much for being here tonight. Thanks for having us. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Rachel, if you have any more questions. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Sounds fun. [61:00] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: You're welcome to stay and learn more about ADUs. I would, I'd love to do that. Thank you. Presentation in the packet. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: No, but it will be. But it will be. As soon as I share it with Tiffany. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: A lot of information in a short amount of time. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Lisa and Carl are both… Okay. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Hi. Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: Hi, everybody! HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: You're gonna give us an ADU update? Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: I am, let me pull up my slides, one second. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: I had a long argument with somebody about whether the ADU relaxation regulations would change the numbers of ADUs. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: And that's how I want to be right. So, tell me what I want to talk about. Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: Yep. Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: Well, that's a great segue. Hi everybody, my name is Lisa Hood, I'm a Principal Planner with Planning and Development Services. I've worked on, several of the recent Accessory Dwelling unit, or ADU, updates to our land use code. [62:09] Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: So Jay asked me to just give kind of an overview update of the ADU regulations. I'll give some background for maybe if there were some of you that weren't on the board when we would have come and explained some of these changes. Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: But just have about a 10-minute presentation, and then I'm happy to answer any questions. I'm just gonna walk you through, the recent history of ADUs in Boulder. Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: You might know Boulder has allowed ADUs for over 40 years, so since 1983, we've allowed ADUs. You can see this chart shows how many ADUs were approved in each year since then, as well as the various regulatory changes that we've made related to ADUs over that time, and how they impacted the number of ADUs that were approved. Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: You can see we didn't get a lot of ADUs in the first, 20 years or so of the program, but it's really ramped up since about 2012. [63:05] Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: There was a very significant, although called incremental, update in 2018, which you can see had a really major impact on the number of ADUs that were approved. I'll talk about, that in more detail in another slide. Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: And then, as well, there were changes in 2023 and 2025. So, I'll kind of just give a brief overview of all those changes, and then give you some outcomes of what happened after those. Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: Some… one thing I wanted to highlight is that in those early years, of ADUs, Boulder was one of the first cities that allowed this new concept of ADUs. So there was definitely some, initial caution in the code. Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: And one of the big things was that there was a saturation limit, so if you were, the first property to want an ADU or to build an ADU within 300 feet of your neighbors, that was great for you, but there was a limit to how many ADUs could be in that radius. [64:05] Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: So that's something that was in the code from the get-go. In the early 90s, the staff memos started saying, hey, we think this saturation limit might be a problem. Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: But we were not able to remove that saturation limit for almost 30 years, so the saturation limit was a very big part of the ADU story that I just wanted to start with. Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: And you'll see the changes that we made. So… Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: In 2018, there was this big round of incremental changes, a really big public engagement push. It was quite controversial at the time. Jay managed this project. Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: And he can attest, there were, I think, 7 or 8 readings at City Council before the changes were actually adopted. So it was a really big conversation at the time. The changes that were made were allowing ADUs in more zoning districts. That saturation limit went from 10% to 20%. Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: Changes to occupancy and rental licensing. We allowed a slightly larger size for ADUs, reduced a minimum lot size requirement, and then one of the big things in 2018 was we established incentives for what we call affordable ADUs. [65:14] Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: Different than the affordability that you were just talking about, I'll explain it in another slide, as well as incentives for historic, like, designated landmark properties. Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: Where they could reduce their parking requirement and get a larger size ADU if they, established as an affordable ADU. Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: After those changes, we saw, like I said, a big jump in ADU approvals. We got 200 new ADUs in just… actually under 3 years. You can see kind of the breakdown. About two-thirds of those were detached, so those are the ADUs that are in a separate structure. Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: Attached are either basement or part of a house, ADUs. Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: The average size was about 640 square feet. You can see the difference between detached and attached. And the big success from that change was that almost… or actually exactly a third of those ADUs that were approved, the folks chose to do the affordable ADU designation. [66:14] Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: Many of them were detached and attached, so what that said to us was that those incentives were working in the code, and then we still got a lot of market rate ADUs as well. Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: We did an evaluation of those changes in 2022 to understand what were the changes in that incremental package that really did reduce barriers to ADUs. Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: Big one was the saturation limit, allowing a larger maximum size, reducing the minimum lot size, so how big of a lot you need in order to establish an ADU, and also allowing it in zoning districts. But that evaluation in 2022 also, allowed us to highlight a number of remaining Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: Improvements that could be made to further reduce barriers, and I'll explain those, in a bit. [67:06] Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: We've also, over the last, almost 15 years, we've been surveying ADU owners every 5 years, to try to understand what they're using the ADU for, what they're renting it for, things like that. Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: And so we did this in 2022 to inform that evaluation, and obviously we went from 2017 before COVID, 2022 after COVID. Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: And there were some interesting changes in that time. There were fewer ADUs that were being used for long-term rentals, and more are being used for housing relatives, or visitors, or just extra space. So, the use of ADUs got more varied over time as we got more ADUs in the city. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: That last graph, I think the legend was covered up by something. I don't… can you tell us what the blue, golden, brown is for? Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: Oh yeah, sorry, I don't know. So blue is 2022, gold is 2017, and red is 2012. Sorry, that's in the right-hand corner. You can't see that? [68:08] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: I think your face is covering it, not by ear. Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: Oh, okay. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Okay, cool. You don't have to die. Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: It's getting old… it's getting… going back in time as the graphs go down. So, 46% in 2022 were used for long-term rental versus 75% in 2012. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Incomplete data in 22, maybe? Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: Not necessarily. We actually got a lot of responses to the survey. I think a lot of people during COVID were just using accessory space for other things, or they didn't want, you know, renters maybe during COVID. That's kind of what we… Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: thought might be happening. There also were more restrictions in 2012 about what you could use an ADU for. Like, it was, I think, required to have a rental license at that time, and then we got rid of the rental license requirement. So there's a number of other factors that… [69:09] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Well, it shows that the percentage of ADU use for rentals has gone down substantially. Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: Exactly, yeah. Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: Okay. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: I would also guess that that 46% still represents a larger number of rentals, perhaps? Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: Yeah, yeah, and then also you can see there's housing… I mean, the ADUs are still being used for housing for relatives, which maybe it's not actually rent, but it's still another housing unit, or housing for visitors, which is temporary. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: I just meant 46% of a larger number might be bigger than 75% of a smaller number. Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: Yeah, exactly. As we got… we got… we basically doubled the amount of ADUs that had ever existed in Boulder in 3 years, so, it certainly changed the, overall, sample size. [70:01] Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: Any other questions on these charts? Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: Okay. Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: All right, another interesting thing from that ADU survey was that, like I said, we view the affordable ADU option as being really successful, but when we ask how much people are renting the market rate ADUs. Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: it's actually also affordable, and so, whether… the conclusion we came to from that ADU, owner survey is whether it's designated affordable or market rate, because of the limited size of ADUs, they're generally kept at an affordable rate, regardless of whether it's designated affordable or not. Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: So, you can see this is the difference, of the… what the affordable ADU rent would be if all of them were designated affordable, versus what our, average reported rents were in that survey, which includes both affordable and market rate. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Or this is what we call naturally… Occurring, no, yeah. [71:01] Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: Yeah, so that's comforting because we know that the market rate, even if people aren't choosing the affordable route, the market rate is still technically meeting that affordability goal. Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: So those, those changes were adopted in 2018, we did the evaluation, and then Council set a work program priority project for us to update the ADU regulations in order to address those barriers. Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: So, the big one was, in 2023, we were able to finally eliminate the ADU saturation limit. So, regardless of whether there are ADUs in your immediate vicinity, folks can apply for ADUs. The exclamation point is there because, like I said, it took 30 years for us to actually get rid of this saturation limit. Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: We also modified the ADU size limits and how we were measuring them, but the effort on this end was really focused on the process, and trying to clarify and simplify the regulations, as well as the process that people go through when they're getting an ADU permitted through the city. [72:03] Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: We really tried to improve that process. It had previously been an administrative approval with planning and then a building permit, and so we consolidated it into just a building permit. We created a lot of… Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: Materials for folks, summarizing ADU regulations. Obviously, as we simplified the regulations, they were easier to explain. Created a video explaining the ADU regulations, really just a focus on process improvements with these changes. Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: In 2023. Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: In 2025, you'll… I… many of you, I'm sure, are aware that, the state, legislature passed an bill related to ADUs. Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: Where certain cities in this, state have to comply, or have their regulations for ADUs, comply with the state bill. So, the changes that we made last year to align with the state bill is we removed the minimum lot size requirement entirely. [73:01] Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: We removed the owner occupancy requirement entirely. Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: We removed a requirement for recording a declaration of use for market rate ADUs. Affordable ADUs still have to record a declaration of use, and what that is, if you don't know, is a, like, a legal document that's recorded against the property that says. Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: for the affordable ones, as, you know, it's rare to keep this at the affordable rate. But we used to do it for all ADUs, so every property with an ADU had this legal requirement, which was… Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: an additional, time in the ADU process. Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: We removed some outdated design requirements. A big one was we removed the parking requirement for market rate ADUs. Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: there wasn't a parking requirement for affordable ADUs, so that's why it was just removed from market rate. Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: And then one of the… one of the bigger concerns in the state bill, was that they allowed some flexibility for attached ADUs to be built in the rear setback. [74:00] Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: And so, what we did to try to address that in the code was, added some limitations on how high that could be. The reason this was a concern is typically, Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: any other addition would have to comply with the rear yard setback, which is usually, I think, about 20 or 25 feet. This basically said that if you're building an ADU, you don't have to do the 25 feet, go to 5 feet, and that's fine. So that's a pretty significant difference. So, Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: we, just capped the height so that, it wouldn't be as big of a structure in that rear yard setback, which you can't, do in any other scenario other than an ADU. Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: So what's happened in… since those changes? I kind of gave… I've gave a very similar chart, after the incremental 2018 changes. This is the same amount of time, about two and a half years since the 2023 more process-focused improvements. Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: We had 74 ADUs built, kind of similar, where about two-thirds of them were detached. [75:05] Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: And then the average size was 591. Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: We are seeing, some affordable ADUs, but not nearly as many without that incentive to remove a parking requirement, since we don't have a parking requirement anymore. Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: And a number of market rate as well. Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: The takeaways, Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: that… from those changes in both 2023 and 2025, I think this is from the staff perspective. We need to do another ADU owner survey. We plan to do that next year. But the process of getting an ADU is much simpler than it used to be. It's a lot easier for staff to provide assistance with the materials that we have. I think folks appreciate Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: And are less confused with there not being two steps to the process. Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: like I said, there's fewer that we're getting per year, but we're increasing. On that chart, I should have called out on the chart at the beginning, we've had 10 ADUs completely built this year, it's only April, and then there's 40 that are in the process of getting their building permit reviewed right now. [76:07] Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: So if those all get built this year or next year, that's about 50 in a year. Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: Something I thought was interesting is, even though we've significantly increased the allowed size of ADUs, the average size is still pretty similar, and is actually even smaller, despite, increasing the allowance. So folks are still keeping ADUs relatively small. Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: We are seeing more, two-bedroom ADUs. Not a ton, but more 2-bedroom ADUs with that size allowance going up, which we weren't really seeing with, our previous size limit. Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: And like I said, the biggest… one of the bigger changes is that the percentage of affordable ADUs was from about a third, that we were seeing in 2022, to only 8% choosing that affordable ADU. Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: The final takeaway, as I looked through the data of the 74 ADUs that have been approved in the last [77:07] Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: couple years is that almost a quarter of those are legalized illegal units. And so, I think that's a positive thing. So, these folks are getting their plans checked, life safety. Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: items are being checked as they get their building permit to establish the ADU. Also, many of these folks have been in enforcement for having illegal units for many years, and there's just been no option to legalize, because if you were Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: on a block that was already, had already hit its saturation limit, there was no option to go through to get an ADU. So, what this tells us is that now there's a route, an easier route. Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: For folks to legalize those units. They're getting checked by, for building code safety, and then also getting an actual rental license. So I think that that's a great thing that that's kind of bringing these units to light. [78:01] Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: Final slide, what are we working on now, or in the next year or so? The state legislation also provide, created a grant program, and so we're going to explore some of those opportunities over the next year to see. Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: what we could potentially use grant funding for, maybe to support, creating more of the affordable ADUs, or there's been talk of, like. Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: pre-designed plans or things like that. And the state seems eager to give out that grant money, so… Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: We'll be looking into that, and then, like I said, we're hoping to do another… or we're planning to do another survey of the ADU owners in 2027, so that we're getting that 5-year mark, Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: done, and I think that'll be really instructive as well. So, that's my last slide, and I'm happy to take any questions. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Have you, seen, like, an… [79:01] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: What is… what are the trends on complaints about ADUs? Like, I know that it's controversial, but, like, do we actually see complaints from, like, neighbors or… HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: community members about, like, ADUs, or is it pretty, like. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Not controversial in the actual instantiation. Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: Yeah, that's a good question. We looked at that in 2022, and there really wasn't a difference, in complaints versus any other type of rental housing. Nothing… nothing really stood out about ADUs. Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: In terms of complaints, even for affordable ADUs that didn't have a parking requirement, there weren't complaints about, like, over-parking or things like that. So we haven't seen a real difference. Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: One thing I should have mentioned, because I talked about how controversial Jay's change… Jay's 2018 change was, the 2023 and 2025 code changes, had almost no, Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: like, negative public comment, or folks coming to the public hearing. They kind of… they went through the process very smoothly, so the… [80:06] Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: the public attitude of ADUs, I think, as we have done this incremental approach, has been helpful to get people more comfortable with ADUs in the community. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Can I see that first slide again, with the numbers? Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: Yeah, one second. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Very true. Yeah, of course. Cool. Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: Nope. Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: It's a good… HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Yeah, not the first slide, sorry. Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: Yeah, the chart. I'm guessing the chart. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: And then, Tiffany, do you mind if it turns out for me? HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Cool. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Such an amazing spike at 2018. And that was mostly from the doubling of the saturation limit. [81:05] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Or… Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: Yeah, I mean, we think so. I think there was also some pent-up demand that probably would have seen more ADUs in 2017 and 2018, but while that process, while the code change process was going on, people were waiting until 2019 to submit. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: How much of that also is people… there were illegal ADUs that went legal after the updates were adopted? I mean, probably have no good way of forecasting that, but… Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: Yeah, that one I don't have the data as easily as I do in the last year, because we… because of that two-step process, this was… these… this is data from, like, the first step of the process until 2022, and then the data from 2025 is the building permit data, where you can see if it's tied to an enforcement case. Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: So, it didn't stand out when I did the evaluation that it was… that legalizing was, like, a huge part of it, but definitely, anytime we relax some of the rules, it's going to provide an avenue for some folks that are either hitting up against that saturation limit when it was 10%, or a size, or something else. [82:15] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: What's the total number of ADUs now? Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: It's about 500. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Do we know how many people live in ADUs in Boulder? Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: We don't. That would be an interesting data point. Maybe we can add that to the owner survey. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: It's between 500 and 1,000. Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: Yeah, probably, with the size. Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: That would be the case. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Some of it's just extra space, like offices… I was gonna say, are offices, yes. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Hmm. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: It's probably under a task. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Still, that's 1%. I mean, they're gonna do 50 this year, that's… that's twice as many housing units as the Boulder Mollock Factory. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Sorry, I have to… I'm not trying to sound like a religious. It's cool, great. [83:06] Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: Yeah, that… one other thing we've seen is there's been 3 factory-built ADUs that have been built this year. Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: So that's new also. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Oh, wow. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Where did they come from? Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: I'm not sure. I just saw them in the building permit data. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: New Mexico? I think one, I know it came from New Mexico, I don't know if it's not the others. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Amazon? Oh, really? Oh, really? They do sell houses on Amazon. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Did she answer your question? I didn't really have a question, I just wanted to stare at it. Well, you were… you asked… Oh, oh, you mean when I… yeah. Well, I was hoping to see, you know, like, the last 3 years be more than the previous 3 years, but that's not true. Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: Yeah, me. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: But it's, it's still encouraging that it seems like there's more ADUs going in in the… [84:04] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: You know, than it was in, like, the 2015-2018 range, and that we're on an upward trajectory there. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: I mean, I wonder if the trajectory is going up, because construction is… Yeah. Well, there's probably only so many ADUs that will get built. Yeah, I wonder if we'll hit a saturation rate. I mean, how many single-family homes are there? There's… HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: So 10, 20,000, 15,000 single-family homes? That would… HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: be good candidates for AVUs? I can't remember what the number might be. A lot of people don't want an APU. That's… you're right, it is… it's what the sar trades out. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: What is it? Do you know what that number is? How many single-family homes? Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: I don't know off the top of my head. Carl, do you know? Karl Guiler, P&DS: Good evening, Board. I'm Carl Geiler, Planning and Development Services. I know that there's over 47,000 dwelling units in Boulder, and I think… [85:05] Karl Guiler, P&DS: maybe a little bit less than 50% are considered detached dwelling units, so I'd say it's somewhere around 20,000. Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: Country. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: But I would say, so if you look at the same chart for other cities, like Portland, getting rid of the owner occupancy was huge. Like, the number of… HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: quadrupled. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Huh. Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: Yeah, no. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: That also happened in 2019. Which I, yeah, so I would expect… HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: But it did not handle. I guess it's been quadruple here in 2019. Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: The owner occupancy wasn't removed until 2025, so… Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: So, I would say, I mean, it takes a long time to get a building permit through the process, it takes a long time to get, architectural plans drawn, so, those… those changes that happened last year, probably we're not seeing, an immediate impact yet. [86:02] Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: So hopefully in the next year or two, we'll see it jump more. Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: But like somebody said, there's so many other factors, like cost of construction and things like that, interest rates, all of that, so, there's a lot more going on, and the economy's not quite as good, in the last few years, so… Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: As much as I like to think that the zoning code, rules all, There's a Complexity. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: It's too bad ML wasn't here. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: I know. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Any other questions? HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Not neat. [87:00] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Thank you for the update. Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: Yeah. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: And the background. I appreciate that. Lisa Houde, City of Boulder: Yeah, thank you all for your time, and thanks for serving on the board. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Thanks, Carl, thank you. Karl Guiler, P&DS: See you all. Take care. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Alright, Boulder Valley Comp Plan Recommendation, the Council and Planning Board. Did everybody have a chance to look at the draft? HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Memo? HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Obs? Comments? Concerns? Do you want me to read the bylaws on making motions for our new board members? HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: In the process? Sure, if you would like to, go for it. Well, someone asked earlier if there were… Yeah, go for it. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Motion making. A regular member, after obtaining the floor, makes a motion. If the motion is longer involved, it should be in writing. [88:00] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: The motion maker may state his or her reasons briefly before making the motion, but may argue the motion only after it has been seconded, and having spoken once may not speak again until everyone who wishes to be heard has the opportunity to speak, except to answer questions asked by their board members. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Having made a motion, the motion maker may neither speak against it nor vote against it. Another regular member seconds the motion. All motions require a second. The seconder does not have to favor the motion in order to second it, and may both speak and vote against it. If there is no second, the chair shall not recognize the motion. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: The chair states the motion and asks for discussion. General debate and discussion follow if the member desires. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: The board members, when wishing to speak, shall follow the rules of speaking outlined above. At the end of discussion, or when the question is called, the chair restates the motion and puts the question to a vote. The chair announces the result of the vote. The motion is not completed until the result is announced. [89:04] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: So I'd like to make a motion. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: I moved to a dog. You can't say anything else for the rest of the night. No, I'm allowed to speak, and then everyone else has to speak. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: I move to adopt the resolution attached to the board packet for tonight's meeting as a recommendation of the board. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: I think it's a very well-written HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: recommendation. And at the end of the day, I think we have a big affordability problem in Boulder. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Supply and demand is Economics 101, and if we're going to tackle affordability, we need more supply. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Very nicely summarized. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: What happens next? HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Someone else to say, give me the second. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: I'll second that. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: All in favor? Actually, you have to read it. You can read it, and then we can debate it. The whole thing? [90:04] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Do I need to? I don't know if you need to. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: I hate to… HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: open this up, but my only question is, based on what we heard from Boulder House Partners today, do we want to say anything about HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Just stressing the need to serve the most deeply affordable. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Units, or serving the most… Vulnerable in our community? Or do we just leave it as is? HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: The takeaway I got from them was that they were totally unambiguous about what their mission was, and that they've got a lot of community support around that, and… HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Like, if that was up for debate, and there was a huge community conversation around it… But it is a community conversation right now. People are talking about, do we subsidize middle-income housing, right? [91:05] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Well, that's actually a problem. I guess that's not necessarily comp plan-specific, I don't know. Yeah, just… But it's not. I'm just, yeah, I'm just throwing it out there as an idea. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: There is a procedure for amending motion. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Not necessarily suggesting that, but… HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: I totally hear what you're saying, and I appreciate that, because I definitely heard them talk… I mean, that… the one particular graph that they were showing, and what percentage of people need deeply affordable, and that's where we're seriously lacking. That was… I thought that was a powerful image. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: I wonder, though, if that's… Like, the comp plan is this… like, overarching… HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: thing, right? Like, so I wonder if keeping it as is with HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: The explicit recognition of the need to increase housing supply, period. [92:03] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: but addressing… Addressing counselor, or making a recommendation to a counselor, or having… having that… Deeply affordable housing. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: As a separate conversation, would be more appropriate. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Huh? HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: The comp plan lasts for quite a few years, right? And when Jeremy and Laura were talking, they were talking about the next few years that… Yeah, absolutely. So, if the comp plan update is only, like. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: you know, every 10 years. Within that 10-year period of time, it may fluctuate. They were just talking about the next couple years, so I wonder if… HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Maybe it shouldn't be more broad like it is now without that modification. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: The market could change, quite a bit in 10 years. Right, well, they could deliver 500. And 5 years from now, maybe they do need more 60-80%. [93:13] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Yeah, I'm fine keeping… HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Is there a way I can read this? I appreciate that. What's that? Is there a way I can read the… It's in the package. Is it in the… okay, I'm looking for it in the package. It's, page… it's like the third page? Third page. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Therefore, yeah. Can I say something positive about it? Yeah. I just… HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Love the simplicity of bullet number 3, and how it's… it's, HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: You know, in the past, we've written a lot of letters, and in the past, you know. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: I remember one somewhat recently, where Mark Wallach kind of snarkily was like, oh, they want missing middle, you don't say, you know, like, and yeah, I feel like, I feel like a lot of times we, we sort of… [94:04] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: We've put letters together… I mean, this has been said a few times, but we put letters together that said a lot. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: And kind of nothing at all. And, HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: I love how this does not say a lot, but it speaks very loudly of the one thing we're trying to say, and it's in goal right there, and I just… I think, I think Goal 79 would be vastly improved with… with the… HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: edit, and I hope they… I hope they listen and make the edit. So, I'm in full support. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: So, a little background for the three of you. So, we've had city staff come and, present to us a couple of times about the Boulder Valley Conplant in the last HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: year and a half, or something like that, getting ready for the, update. And then, HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: We had tests come last month, I guess it was. [95:01] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: and presented the Boulder Valley Comp Plan, some updates, changes, and then she asked 3 very specific key questions when she presented to us. And so these 3 bullet points… HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: answer those questions. And then the subsequent conversation that we had amongst the monks have is. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Right? Do we… do we go into details about what kind of housing is needed? Do we want to talk about a variety of housing types, a variety of housing costs? Do we want to talk about that? And at that time, we came to an agreement that, no, really, the agreement HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: The thing was, it's like, let's keep it simple and just be really clear. We need more housing. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Period. And then, yes, there's lots of sub-details, but… That's kind of how… HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: this version came about. So, just to catch you up. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: I, I agree with… generally, one point for consideration, it's not necessarily, [96:05] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: to propose anything that was, like, whether we want to actually propose language, like, specific language, so that they could insert, like, adding a sentence, like, the city is committed to policies that promote, or that will increase the housing supply, or something like that, so that it's not… HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: So that we have something they could practically adopt. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: And not just, like, add the order increase before supply, for example. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: The other small point is that we should change 2025 to 2026. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: That's probably a good idea. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Swarm and did change the date. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Unless someone… does someone else have something before I speak again? HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: No. I was just gonna say to Lauren's point, you know, my understanding of this comp plan is it's like, it's big picture guidance at a very high level. I agree with you, I think we can make recommendations on types of housing, and I think we can still do that. I don't think approving this is exclusive to that. [97:10] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: this really speaks to the comp plan, and one thing that I've been looking at is just the population data on Boulder, which is that, you know, in 100 years ago, in, I guess, 1920, the population was 11,000. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: It hit 95,000 or so in 2000, and today it's around 106. So from, you know, 1990 over… or 2,020 years, it's gone up 10,000… 10,000 people. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: We've seen relatively mild population growth in 20 years, but we've seen massive… HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Home expense and home ownership price increase, which just signals to me that something's out of whack. And at a big picture level, if we want to maintain or just combat… maintain somewhat affordable housing, or combat skyrocketing prices. [98:06] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: there needs to be, more supply, because the population's relatively stagnant, but the housing prices are going up. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: And how do we allow there to be more population, and perhaps more affordable housing? It's by just building more housing HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: At all levels. And I think in terms of the comp plan, you know, there's a lot of debate, like, my understanding is when the planning board goes to approve a project or consider a project, they have to look at the comp plan. You know, if someone's proposing a 4-unit development versus eight units, this recommendation says 8 units is better. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: That's the value of the city. So, I think, as a community, we need to wrap our brains around that we… we need to be able to grow the size of our community if we don't want housing prices just to skyrocket infinitely. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: And that means building more housing units at all levels. [99:00] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: And probably, if we're going to increase the housing supply, because we're not building houses at Chautauqua, it means denser, smaller housing units and existing space that's available for construction. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: So, I'm good with this recommendation. We can change the date, I don't know if we have to, I hope so. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Do you have more thoughts about… No, there is a goal about permanently affordable housing at or below 50% AMI, so I think we're… we're fine. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Now what? HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: I think you… you put it to a vote. We have a second. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: I think you make a motion to… Are you ready? HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Motion to approve. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Indeed. [100:01] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Favor? Great. None opposed? Motion approves. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Great play, thank you for that. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Alright. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Have work plan. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: I guess, point of order, how do… this is something we need to talk about. How do we communicate our recommendations to Council and manage? Have you been able to get a… HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: a public comment? No, we don't get… hold on, that's on my list. Okay. I think that plays into the… it would be good if we figured out a way to communicate this. Well, there's, there is a process for us. …to be able to share this memo. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: included in the packet that goes to the Planning Board of the City Act. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Does that answer your question about that? This specifically? HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Yeah, I mean, do we want to, the next time someone goes to… tries to go to Council to speak, they maybe read this? HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: recommendation? Can you hold that thought for just a moment? You can also just email it to the Planning Board Council, like, directly, right? [101:08] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: We could do that. I think, if we agree that someone can HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: you're the chair, email it to all the members of Council and Planning Board and say, this is a recommendation from the Housing Advisory Board approved 7-0. You could also probably go directly to future at oldercolorado.gov and ask that it get sent out. So, like, for instance, when I'm doing recommendations to the county commissioners, etc. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: to make sure it goes on public record, that's how I do it. So I don't even email it directly to my colleagues, I send it into the BBCP and ask that it get redistributed back out. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: To avoid, basically. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: serial meeting legislation. Yeah, my point is, like, these meeting packets I've seen for Council are sometimes, like, 500 pages. Yeah, my picture is 200 pages, but maybe you don't… they don't see it, and maybe there's a way we could ping it into someone's inbox, it might get read. If I… if I could, like, we… I… I'm pretty good about reading them, and I… [102:07] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: and know that my colleagues are as well, like, particularly when they come on behalf of a boarder. You know, I think that there's a lot, there's about a thousand public comments, but at the top are all of the, like, board recommendations and whatnot. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: And I mean, also, that's part of the reason I'm here, right, is to bring that recommendation back to the planning board, and for what it's worth, I could see the need for language to specify HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: specifically more density, and right now, almost all the Planning Board and Council is united on that goal. The county is not necessarily, but I think that that will be a well-received revision. So, I mean, I can even just personally tell the planning board that. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Holly Jay, do you chime in about the process, or… HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Yeah, well, that's fine. Okay. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: We can send it directly to Planning Free. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: But I agree, sending it to the comp plan staff, it'll get included in the packet. [103:03] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Because you're a Ford, you will get higher priority. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: So, working lumped in with all the other… Hundreds and hundreds of copies. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: And I know the compliance staff is already working on revising the language. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Yeah, they might even just do it themselves, and then… because the comp… I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but comp plan staff is taking the recommendations from the public, the boards, etc, and then giving it back to us one more time as plan board and council, and then HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: we say what we like and don't like about the revisions, and then it goes back again, and then we go to vote… voting it in. So we have, like, one more layer of revisions still going on right now, and it's closed to the public, but I don't think it's… it's obviously not closed to you guys. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: True, yeah, just closed to the public. Yeah, and before our four-body meeting, it was closed to the public, so there's no longer public comments, like, kind of muddying the… [104:00] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Water's on it. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Oh, good. That plan? Yeah, just… you can email, it's good. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Okay, work plan. Ready to talk about work plan? Everybody see the work plan? HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: So we have a HAB retreat, next month. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Jay, were we able to get a facilitator for that? Still working on it, but we'll… HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Okay, cool. We'll be hollowed. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: I believe in her. The same meeting night for the retreat. Yep. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Mr. Finan has denied off the floor. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Unless… Unless it's November. Or is there a schedule if it's beyond this, or is this the extent to which it's been scheduled out? [105:02] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: I would say that's the… I mean, the schedule is, yes, it's the 4th, except for… HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: We usually have one meeting in November, December, but those two months usually get a meeting at the beginning of December. Generally true. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: And we're gonna skip July? Or… so, actually, I had, proposed that as a possibility, but, I thought that there was gonna be a few people gone, apparently it's just me. But Tiffany is gonna be out in August, true? And she is impossible to replace. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Okay, but it is very difficult to get somebody else to fill in for you, so there's… It is irreplaceable, yes. Yes, so… so… so… HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: So I'd suggest that we cancel August. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: And it sounds like Council and Planning Board have a summer recess, too. [106:01] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: In August? HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: No, theirs is in July? Beginning of July, I think? HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: But they also meet more often, but anyway, side note. We don't have to decide that yet, so it's… You can put it on the agenda for next month? HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Can I just say, I read in the news recently that… HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: One of the county… county open space board made the news for canceling too many meetings, and they got a lot of heat for that. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: So, I would say that. I don't think we're… I don't think we have that problem, but I think it drew attention, I'd say. But Brendan, I don't know if that answered your question. Generally, we kind of just have a list of potential things which anybody can chime in and say, hey, we should… HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: have a panel, or these guests, or discuss this, or whatever. Anybody can chime in with that. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: either now, now would be the appropriate time, or you can email me or Jay at any time, and we can add things to the list. But generally, we kind of have it, projected out 2 or 3 months of kind of what the topics or guests are. [107:19] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: So, right, and then in June, we were gonna have, a housing for older adults needs, and… HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: options. We'll have a couple of guests, which will be awesome. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: You just like spending time with us. Oh, and we also have, the chair and vice chair elections in June, so think about if you're interested in, serving in one of those roles, or you think somebody else should serve in one of those roles. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: And then, HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Okay, so I can segue to this. So, in June would be about when we would do a quarterly update. So, I still have not got to do the most recent quarterly update. I'm just on the list, and I get these nice messages that I'm going to be bumped up on the list because I keep not making the list, and it hasn't happened yet. [108:11] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: So the next one is the 7th is the next City Council meeting, I think, that's not a study session, that's HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Is that true? Whatever that date is. So, I'll be putting my name on the list on Friday. I read over what I had planned to say to make sure that it was still appropriate, and it's the thing that we voted on, and it is still appropriate. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: But this would be a good segue, I think, HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: the next quarterly update might be a great time to say something about what we learned from BHP tonight, and really emphasizing deeply… the need for deeply affordable and HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: We just don't have the opportunity to say it. I think the fact that we may not always get an opportunity to speak, we should probably also email it to Cohen. For sure. [109:08] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: And then show up in person, if you want to show up in person. I can't help but being reminded of something you said about 18 months ago, or maybe it was, I guess it was about a year ago now. I've said it a few times. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: I knew what you were gonna say. I knew what you were gonna say. About how, TAB can take the floor, or something like that? The City Charter says the commissions have the right to the floor of Council. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: So, I mean, maybe we ought to go nuclear. I mean, it's kind of ridiculous that you're trying to show up and give a two-minute HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: thing, but something that we voted on to say, and that, like, you're part of a lottery, and it is in the charter. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: And they… we actually voted, there was, on the ballot last November, was whether we should get rid of that portion of the charter, and the voters said no. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: So, I mean, it does speak to kind of, like, the structural design of our government in the city. [110:03] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: But whatever, I… I'm not gonna file a lawsuit on this. So… But I could. Jay, what would that… HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: What's with that? HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: look like. We've been down this road before. I would not recommend it. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: That's why I use the word… the dramatic word nuclear, is because I think it would be, you know… HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: It's disruptive to… to the way we do things, but I don't know. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: I mean, it's just an update to Council. It's not like… HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: anything really pressing? I just think in the grand scheme of things, like, the City of Boulder is facing free speech lawsuits from people during public comment, where the city council said, you're being disruptive, and then they said that you're violating my First Amendment rights. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: And if we just look at this, like, big picture, like. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Our city council does struggle with getting comments from the community in that process. It's something they've had a lot of trouble with. And the city has dealt with extensive litigation in this regard, and if I just look at, like, how our city is structured, there's all these different [111:16] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: commissions and boards that are very specifically targeted towards certain subject matters. Planning board, housing, transportation. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: environment, parks and Rec. And there's an opportunity for people to come to those boards to speak on those specific issues, and then there's an opportunity for those boards who were appointed by Council to then communicate that to Council. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: And it seems like Council spends more time listening to just HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: general public, which is important, and gets bogged down with lawsuits and angry people over free speech issues, and doesn't even have an organized channel to hear from its own commissions. So, I mean, it's just, it's more of, like, a big picture thing. It's not unique to our board, obviously. [112:02] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: But when I just look at the structural design of our charter, the way that I sort of HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: view how it's supposed to work is that people can come to these commissions, speak on issues such as housing or transportation, or what have you, and then the commissions can come in a more organized, cohesive way, speak and communicate with Council. And it does seem to me like there is a problem HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Where there's not an appropriate mechanism for the commissions to actually communicate with Council, and the Charter does contemplate it. It says they shall have the right to the floor, and that's… I don't think that's being respected in our city. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: last night? Yeah. We have, like, HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: an introduction to boards and commissions and panels with the city… Attorney's office? HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: maybe, like, they would have some advice, just as an idea, about, like, how to read the language of the charter, or… [113:04] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: That's who I always go to, I mean, on my brief time, but I mean, I've been harassing those cats since long before I was on planning board, and, like, the attorneys are normally very responsive. And that, you know, the packets of this are determined by the staff, not the council. It's not necessarily council's, like, immediate purview to designate who has the floor. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Do we want to reach out to the city attorney and just say, this is the language in the charter, and we'd like clarification on HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: city's position and how that right to the floor is executed? I mean, they're gonna… they're gonna provide their legal opinion, which is… HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: what you're reading in the Charter, right? Whether or not politically we want to do that is another question, right? HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: And my answer to that is no, I don't think we can. Yeah, I agree. Why can't we just email it to them? I mean, is it really important that we speak in person? That's a good question. So, [114:03] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: it seems like it was about 2 years ago, 3 years ago, that HAP decided that, HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: So we write a letter or two a year to Council with, kind of, like, this is what we've been doing, this is what we recommend. And there can be… HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: other things, but that's kind of like a routine. And have discussed at the time HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: maybe we should be a little bit more forward with City Council. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: And so, we kind of made it a goal, a loose goal of saying, hey, we should do, like, a quarterly update. We don't always have to be in front of them, but if we do. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: let's say a letter in January when they're asking boards and commissions for that information, and then maybe a few months later, we could speak for 2 minutes and just a quick update, what we're thinking about, what we're recommending, that sort of thing, and kind of [115:05] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: leapfrogging, but then we kind of… kind of morphed to, let's just try and do a couple of minutes every quarter-ish. And we had HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: basically been doing that until this last time when I put my name on the list a couple times, maybe in blacklisted. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: I think it's always nice to just… HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Have… have them know who we are, show up in person, and hear our voices, but… HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: We're an advisory board, so we have no, like, hard power to make recommendations, and I think our power is as strong as we make it. You know, if we send a 7-0 HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: recommendation, and we communicated clearly and concisely to Council. That carries weight. And we carry enough to show up to do public comment. Yeah, if we pass a 4-3 resolution that gets buried in a packet with a thousand pages, doesn't carry as much weight. So, that was our attitude, I think, and I think it was good. It kind of kept us on track with, we need to… [116:05] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: actually recommend something. I think we're happy with that. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: It just sounds like we hit a roadblock recently with getting Winning the lottery. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: They've also had, like, a lot of issues with, particularly, like, the rec center. There's been a couple, like, very controversial things there. There's a lot of people wanting to speak. …that are stacked up, so I think that you're right, that there's a lot of value in showing up and speaking in person. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: And then, also, I think there's a lot of value in board members, like, whether it's on the one I'm on or the one you guys are on. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: in feeling empowered, and being like, there's a reason that we're all showing up here tonight. Like, I'm not getting paid to be here tonight. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: You know, like, nobody else is, like… And the first… the first time that we agreed and we voted on a comment, it was… I went to council to read it, and it was something we voted on, we approved, and that was an eye-opening experience, because there were screaming people, the cops came in, council suspended the meeting, there was a lot of anti-Semitic comments. [117:05] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: very dark, and then there was a period where Council just stopped having public comment altogether. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: And it made me realize, like, our city has, like, a procedural problem here. It's not… there's not decorum, and the community is not effectively communicating to its council. And the hope is, like, I think this is a very productive process of listening to staff, listening to subject matter experts, having public comment unique to our board, debating it. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Presenting it. That's, like, really good governance. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: But if there's sort of a wedge that doesn't actually let us communicate effectively to council, then, you know, that's just a structural, procedural problem. That's the way I see it. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: This is just, like, my opinion, and I don't even really entirely know what my role is here, although I do think, constitutionally, somebody from Planning Board is bound to HAV, unlike any other… It's in the ordinance, you have no voting power, but you have to be here. Yeah, but I mean, in that way, that is also, like, a channel through, though, you know? [118:05] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: In the same way that I do have a little bit more of a direct line of communication on the BBCP. But… HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: I agree with you entirely, and as somebody who spends a lot of time communicating with Council, which is why I'm in the position that I am now, I think that it would be well met. I don't think it would be a politically… HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: tumultuous suggestion to say, due to the issues with public comment that we're all suffering for, like, whether that be controversial issues or, like, disruptive, etc, we would like a 2-3 minute window, or, you know, 3-5 minute window quarterly. I think that that would be well met. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: What if they have 20 spaces for public comment, they could give 4 of those spaces to the boards and commissions at each meeting, and they could probably fill in all the boards, either HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Two to four times a year. You know, and reserve a spot for the boards and commissions to come speak. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: That's just a thought, and that would be up to them just to pass a rule. My thought is the Charter sort of compels them to accommodate that. [119:06] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Are there particular issues that we feel like we're not being heard on? I think as a new member, like, I'm missing the context of HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: what we would want to be saying. I kind of feel like a little bit, this kind of answers that question, I think, is kind of choosing our battles kind of thing, and I think that that could clearly update what we had, HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Approved for me to say that this next one is nothing earth-shattering. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: I kind of feel like the, HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: And also, I think the more times you don't win the lottery, the better your chances are. So they say. So they say. I mean, the numbers have been high, because there has been some really controversial things in the public, so I'm… HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: I'm feeling good about this next month, but I guess what I'm saying is, I feel like, well, would you rather, in that regard, would you rather just read what we just passed and what we voted on months ago? [120:07] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Weeks ago, whenever that was. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: I feel like that's a separate question. Yeah, well, but you did say, you're like, I don't feel like it's that important. I feel like what we just voted on is pretty important. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: I think, I think it's two. But I guess what I'm saying, HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Let me just finish my thought. Yeah, sure. I feel like if we're gonna demand the floor, it needs to be not a, this is what we've been doing the last few months. I think it needs to be a really big thing, and I don't think we have that right now. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: I think that's what I was trying to say. Yep. I think what we just voted on is… is worthy of… HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: speaking to Council. I don't even remember what last quarter of the update was. But there are channels to get that information to the City Council and the planning committee. I was gonna say, it sounds like there are several channels, and thank you, Max, for chiming in with a couple of things, and… HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Jay, for clarifying. It seems like there's several channels to be able to make sure that this is [121:05] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: I would recommend also, instead of going just to the public comment in a general city council, that we have joint HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: City Council Planning Board meetings about the BBCP, and nobody comes to those. So there's no competition for comment on those, and that's the more relevant time to come in general. Like. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: You might ask staff for 3 minutes of that meeting. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: You know, and I think that, once again, that would be well received. Public comment allowed at public? There isn't public comment. It's considered a study session. Oh man, really? Yeah. You're not public. I know sometimes at council meetings, they always do open comment at the beginning, which people are allowed to talk about anything. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: And then… HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: sometimes they hold specific comment, it's not open comment, public comment on something they're about to vote on, but it's usually something very specific, like a quasi-judicial function. Yeah, public hearing, yeah. Yeah, will they be holding any form of public comment specific to the Boulder Valley Comprehensive Plan? They will during the adoption. [122:13] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: So, but the idea is everything's finalized by then? Okay, so you want to get this before their next meeting, because that's when they basically signal HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: They're all good with the plant. And correct me if I'm wrong, because that might be, but we're gonna have the… HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Council and Planning Board are going to have one. We likely won't adopt it then, and then it'll go in front of Planning Board and then Council separately, right? Unless everybody magically agrees, which would be… I think staff would be really grateful for. Occasionally it being bongs back and forth between Planning Board, City Council, and then sometimes it's the county. Anyway. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: I think you guys are fine. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: I'll stop talking for now, I've made myself hurt. I appreciate you brought it up, and I appreciate you bringing it up every once in a while. And I appreciate you chime in, but I do, yeah. I would recommend talking more about the retreat, though. [123:05] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Preparing for that. So, there's some basic questions on the work plan. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: the chairs and I came up with, but this is your retreat, right? So, you guys should have spent a few minutes talking about what is it that you want to accomplish. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: What do you want to accomplish? Has there been a retreat in the past for TAB? There has been. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: I've only been a part of one. We didn't have one last. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: My first HAB meeting was, like, a retreat. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: And I'll say my criticism of it was that it felt very, like, dominated by the facilitator. There wasn't… I don't know, I would just like to hear, like, what everyone's issues are, and learn what each individual HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: board member kind of values, I didn't feel like we had the opportunity to do that. These were 7 members, and it's like, where's their consensus, you know, and what do people care about and stuff, and I think that would be a valuable use of retrieve time. I think with a, a big turnover. [124:13] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: I think… I think it'll be good to just simply have some, like. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Kind of getting to know you, but not necessarily what my favorite color is, which is blue, by the way, but more like… HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: So if I were in charge of Boulder… Yeah. Right? I agree. Like, what… what… HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: what would be my dream to solve housing in Boulder? Like, I think it would be great to kind of HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: hugely think outside of the box, and just really think about, like, what do we want to… what do we want to see? What do we want to be a part of? What do we want to… HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Help… help create. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: And then also kind of hone it down to, okay, so how can we… how can we actually do that? What can we… how can we help HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: make that happen. Yeah, I will. [125:01] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: kind of, like, going really, like you're saying, like, values, like, personal who you are, and then also kind of, like, that big picture, far out there visioning. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: I feel like for me, for maybe not so much the values, I feel, like, more clear on that, but the, like, visioning piece could be interesting that we have time during the retreat to do, like, some personal brainstorming. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: like… HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Ask the question, yeah, 5 minutes, a piece of paper, think about it, could be 3 minutes, but then share. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: maybe trying to… and I like the brainstorming you a lot. Adding on to that, I think, like, trying to… to think about tying HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: What… HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: we do to, like, the functions that are listed. It's, like, what we're supposed to be doing, advise the City Council on housing mutual strategies, study and recommend long-term goals, etc, like, what we would do for each one of those things, or what we could do for each one of those things to actually [126:05] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: like, add… Value, according to… HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: what the board has set up for. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: I would say that that's typically a big part of the retreat, is, you know, what is your work plan for the next year? What do you want to focus your time on? HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Abby's Vision Work Plan. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Brainstorming. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: David, how about you? HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: What do you think? What would you like to get out of our time? I agree with that. I mean, from some of the stuff on here, HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: other items to explore. It looks like people have been developing their own projects or agendas for a while. As a new member, I haven't done that yet, so, HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: brainstorming, or whatever you want to call it, I think it would be good to think about, you know, what… what issues I might like to champion, or, over the next year. [127:07] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: How many happy treats for you? HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Well, I guess this is, I guess I'm in year 5 now. Yeah, so too. By the senior member? Yeah, that's fine. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: I… I remember when I started. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: coming to HAB meetings, my… I was… it took a bit to orient myself to what the purpose of HAB was, and how it operates, and it's… it kind of surprised me, you know, to understand how the… HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: the, the meetings… HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: rules works of, like, we… like, three of us can't get together and do some work offline. Like, other… other… other organizations that you're part of. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: The whole purpose of a meeting is to make it as efficient as possible so that you delegate the work that you're going to do, and whoever… whatever subset of people that wants to work together to get some tasks done, go get it done however you want. We're not allowed to do that this way, so these meetings are working meetings, and [128:13] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: And also, like, I kind of thought I would be overwhelmed with work. Like, I'd be doing stuff, you know? HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: But we've mostly, in my time, have played very much an advisory role. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Where we hear, HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: presentations from city staff, we get feedback on that, we, do some letters of recommendation. But, like, I don't ever remember… I think… I think in the couple years before I was here, there were some actual studies and reports that were written by HAB that I was not a part of. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: And maybe one. Okay, so there was one, and it was… it was related to mobile ADUs that you could park in a front yard or something, in a driveway. That one didn't quite go anywhere. So, [129:04] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: I don't know why I said all that. I do remember, you know, like, I've gone on different rants at different times about big ideas, and… HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Oh. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: I love doing that story stuff, but I'm also not sure how effective or useful it is, either. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: I think it's more useful in a retreat setting, like, than it is during our structured meetings. Yeah. And I think there is value to that. I mean. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: I've been on the board for 2 years, and only other people in here 2 years are you and Karin, and it took me, like, 2 years to kind of figure out the stuff you guys care about. Like, it'd be nicer if we could just talk a little more upfront about everyone's… HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: issues and stuff, and then know that going into meetings, so that you don't have to spend two years trying to figure out what one person stands for, or what they're passionate about. [130:02] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Not sure if I gave anything useful for planning the retreat or not, but I'm excited about it, I think it'll be fun, and I'll participate with enthusiasm for it. How long is the retreat? HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: 6 or 7 hours? It's just scheduled for the regular time, correct? But we are gonna meet, HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Wild Sage Cohousing, which will send out the address. It's in the Holiday neighborhood in North Boulder. And a part of that is to do a quick little tour, not so much of Wild Sage, but it's in Holiday, like, in the heart of Holiday, and Holiday is HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: A really incredible part of town that was… A very successful master development. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Thing. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Not everybody's been there. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: So, I'm gonna do a little tour, and then we'll eat dinner. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Animal work. [131:01] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: But we'll still be done by 9. Yeah. It's nice to do it outside of the city building, just more comfortable that way, too. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: So, typically staff doesn't attend. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: This is… so the facilitator will be there. Unless you want to. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: I think you're a fan. I think you're super helpful. I think so, too. Jay's trying to get out of this. He told me I couldn't come either. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: I don't want to get to know everybody. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: You are welcome to sit in those cases. I do think you're really helpful, though, just saying. I think technically, according to the, like, statute, you're a member. You're, like, an ex officio non-voting. Me? HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: I think all three of you are, actually. I think, I think that that is true. I think I'm a non-voting member, technically. I think the three of you are not voting. [132:00] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Stop. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: It's just traditionally, staff has not attended. That way, you guys can have an honest conversation among yourselves, and not worry about… HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: pending staff, or, you know, if you guys want to talk about ways that you'd like the meetings run differently or better, this is your opportunity to do that as well. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: How did you keep us on track, but… HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: So, is that enough information to be able to pass on to the facilitator? You didn't say anything. You guys are going to meet with the facilitator. Oh, that's right. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: It was to prepare you guys and the rest of the board for what to expect. Well, if there's any feedback, just from the last one I did, I felt like… and that was, like, my first meeting, there wasn't, like, a chance for me to really, like, talk to any of the existing members on the board, because HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: it just felt like it was so structured. So, some feedback, I'd say, maybe a little less structure and a little more just for us to talk. You agree with that, Phil? [133:03] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: I thought of something else I wanted to say. I wasn't even listening to Chip, I'm sorry. I got excited about something. If my comments about my personal history with Tab felt cynical or depressing, I want to just make a count point, which is, HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: in 20… 22, I think, is when I started. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Or maybe 23. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: losing track. Anyways, it was… it was a really interesting time, because we had a very huge change in the political makeup of City Council. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: And there was a bunch of stuff, housing-related, that came through the pipe, and it came through HAB, and HAB said, yes, this is great, here's some thoughts. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: But there was a ton of stuff in process. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: And then, like, a ton of stuff happened. You know, like, the ADUs happened, the occupancy reform happened, the, there's various state stuff happened, and it was just sort of like, man, this is… this is easy info, and we get to, like, see all this change happen, and we get to… [134:14] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: weigh in. And so I know that has not been a lot of other people's experiences I have of watching things crawl very slowly, and nothing seems to happen. So, anyways, I just wanted to make a counterpoint to the other one. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: That's fun. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Any other comments about the retreat and the plans? HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: I think, while I do want to get to know new members, especially. I think. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Focusing on work plan is really important, and just ideas for topics, agree. Yeah. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Start thinking now. [135:06] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: All right. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Staff. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: What you got to say? Matters from staff. Is there anything? HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Boom. I can't think of anything. Any questions? HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Colin, you got anything? No. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Really? HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: I've never not had something. What do you want to hear? I don't know, I'm just there. Something exciting going on? HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: I wish I could tell you that, what's happening with Prop 123, Holly? HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: How much is being cut? HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: You know what? HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: I don't feel like I've followed that very closely, because we have gotten very few dollars in the city anyway, so it doesn't feel like it's gonna have a… [136:00] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: big operational impact for developments around here. Why is that? Why haven't we? It's not appropriate, we haven't asked. Oh, we've asked. A lot of different entities have asked for funds, and HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: We've been… the city's been successful in pulling two grants for about $4 million, 4.8… HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: $4.8 million total, and I think that's all that we can say the city has received from Brooklyn. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: And what a lot of other jurisdictions are getting is… it's not to build housing, it's for technical assistance. It's to hire consultants. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: I freaking totals in the room are offended. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: But, which is disappointing to me. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: I can share that Thistle did receive a grant. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Yep. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Habitat for Humanity got the second largest grant, and that gets distributed to the different, affiliates, so Flatirons is… will be a recipient this year. [137:10] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: So, I mean, there is money flowing, but are you talking specifically about the money that the legislature… I was just curious if you had any updated news in the last week from… Well, the legislature's gonna claw back. A lot of that, yeah. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: We all got $25 back on our tax returns with Taylor, so… HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: If you weren't in prison for more than 6 months. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: The other thing I'll say about Prop 123 is we've… I think we've focused as, like, a city to focus… to target the money for affordable home ownership opportunities. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: And what the state is cutting is through OEDIT, and I forgot what OEDIT stands for. I can't remember. Yeah. And, that's not where the homeownership lies. So again, I don't… I haven't felt very, like, personally offended by it. [138:11] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Have you got any insider knowledge? Yeah, yeah. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Does it sound like it just wasn't enough money to make, like, a big enough impact? Choppa's distributing a lot. Like, they're targeting… HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: To distribute $30 million in the next… HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Yeah, and there's a dashboard where you can see where money has been distributed to, and there's a lot of dollars that have gone out. But a lot of it is through OEdit, CHAPA, to developers. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: development. It's not like… maybe they'll speak more to it than I. That's where the bulk of the funding is going. Going to private developers, building 60% AMI units. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Well, I think we're seeing just a broader social trend, that we're moving away from an ownership society to a renter. People want to be renters for a long time, and that's the type of housing we're building. [139:11] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Try to find some… I'm not saying that's… No, try to find some developers that are building, besides Habitat and… It's very hard to do. Yeah, there's not many developers that are doing that. It's very hard to do. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Okay. Well, thank you. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: like I said, if there's something you do want to know about, let me know in advance, too, and I can give you an update. Well, and thank you for the information you provided me, that's… HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: you were out on vacation, and then you sent me… oh, yeah, that was… that's all. I forgot about that. Awesome, thank you for the ADU update. That was… that was great. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Okay. Any, final thoughts? Anything? Anything else? [140:03] HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: You're raising your hand to make a motion to adjourn? HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: I have a motion to adjourn. Second that. Oh, thanks. HAB Monthly Meeting 04.22.26: Most of the fruit, thank you, everybody.