June 26, 2019 — Housing Advisory Board Regular Meeting

Transcript

[MM:SS] timestamps correspond to the YouTube recording.

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[2:49] they eat June 26 2019 meeting of the boulder has an advisory board and will start with a roll call I am here what's

[3:03] your name [Laughter] Judy nog and I believe I'm here too I'm slightly Khalsa present one more time Jacque sure you know present and daven sign ex officio non-voting present all right a gender review I think we have one small change and it's just that before the alpine balsam plan discussion we're going to have Jacque make a brief statement just so everyone is aware any other items for the agenda that are not written right now perfect that's okay well we have time for approval of minutes but I move that we approve the minutes second all those in favor and

[4:03] we'll wait for Corey to be done approval of the minutes was unanimous shucks before we get a new public participation there's gonna be a brief note on process since we have a very limited amount of board members tonight all non recommendations to Council are gonna have a passing vote of three and if we do make a recommendation to Council tonight that will require four votes or a unanimous vote with the present members and we're just going to wait one minute on public participation

[5:39] all right the first public participation is our open comment period and we do not have any open comment at the moment it is on alpha Boltzmann yep okay perfect Lynd seagull once Eagle Mountain Heights

[6:05] I want the lowest density possible at alpine balsan and I want the hospital to be repurposed I think when we have like the massive deficit in the open space master plan and the housing situation that we have now the developers need to pay not the public I'm not gonna vote for any open space tax I'm not gonna vote for any affordable housing tax the developers need to pay they're causing the problem they need to pay if we have no jobs in Boulder then they'll have no jobs in Boulder but I think we're doing just fine the end where the parking lot is on the Alpine Dawson site should be

[7:04] scaled down in spite of the fact that the hospital should be repurposed and there can be some housing in there not more than 50 units Denver has the same problem and they're trying to do the same thing as Boulder so Boulder gets blamed all the time but this is happening all over the country and finally someone has to wake up and see that it's the development that's driving up the costs of everything and these are regressive taxes the property taxes thus driving people up out you know and there and it doesn't matter if they're gentrification or if they're young people that can't afford stuff yet the only people that can afford anything anymore is the people in the middle and that's eroding itself as we spread the wealth gap and the wealth

[8:02] gap increases the more that that were subsidizing developers as Boulder does all over no demolition obviously of the hospital that's a huge public works project that's a huge expense that we can get creative architects to repurpose the space the same way as all of the preexisting housing that the Boulder Valley comp plan requires us or advises guides us to do same with the housing and same with the hospital Thank You Lynne looks like is there any other open comment okay we will close open comment period and move on to manners from counsel manufactured housing strategy

[9:03] public hearing Jeffie again senior project manager with housing Human Services with me tonight are my colleagues who've been part of we're the team that's been working on this I'll have them introduce themselves Brenda written our neighborhood liaison in the city manager's office I'm Krystal Lander I'm a housing planner so tonight we have a short presentation for you and then entertain any questions and before we move into your participation and discussions and we'll answer all the questions we can and bring it back to you on anything else but in if you choose to make a recommendation as you noted there will be a unanimous vote required so this is the third time I

[10:04] think we've come to you with this so we're quite a bit further along and you've watched this project move through but before we dive it into the nuts and bolts of policies and housing types and infrastructure we thought we'd give you just a brief snapshot of what it's meant to at least one family in Boulder to have this type of housing available so there are many other examples but with a family that's been able to live together in a way that they probably couldn't achieve elsewhere this gives a sense of why we do this it's about the people it's not about housing it's about the people who live in it that become part of our community quick overview of what we're doing here there is a Boulder Valley Comprehensive Plan policy which I think you're familiar with it essentially talks about preserving and expanding this housing option because of

[11:00] the way it serves our community goals this project is organized around the idea that we will have a public process and a structured approach to providing support for our goal which is to preserve and expand manufactured housing so we have been working towards an action plan and future work efforts that is the focus of what we're we have in front of you tonight we began with a community engagement phase in which when you know dozens and dozens of people more than a hundred many comments came to meetings otherwise shared their ideas about what could work to what help us towards this goal including a residence of all four parks within the city limits and representatives of all four parks ownership and management as you can see they generated more than three hundred ideas that formed the basis of the last time we came to you was kind of an organization and then an expression of

[12:01] what we thought we had learned from folks and from a bunch of research we then moved into our second phase after you provided your input which had worked through with you and to counsel and a study session in February and I'll give you a quick overview of their feedback after we get through this one and we are now working towards a council date for an adoption or acceptance of a strategy August 6 so we're getting towards the end of this project and the development of a manufactured housing strategy for the community what we're in front of you tonight with is the analysis that we did of the issues that council was interested in pursuing and an initial pass at a potential action plan that would respond to our analysis of those issues pending feedback from you from human relations commission from the public at large and residents and the

[13:01] owners of the park so that's kind of where we are two things that have happened since we were last in front of the with most significance are the study session which I'll cover but then the State Legislature passed a bill called House bill 1309 which created a dispute resolution and in an enforcement program that will go into effect in May of 2020 so it's a little over less than a year away there were a few resident protections for Park residents built into the bill but the intent is to follow up with a second 2020 bill that will be have a significantly broader list of potential items that the state legislature will probably be taking up so we have some more information on that if it's a particular interest but the big takeaway is that one of the main concerns that the state mobile home park Act was did not have an easy clear pathway for enforcement is hopefully

[14:01] going to be resolved we are we've supported this bill and engaged in the in the development of the program and will potentially be able to accomplish some of our goals through provisions of the program and potentially 2020 legislation so at the council study session in February there was broad support for the principles with interest in potentially adding which we have done as you've seen a principle around accountability based on public input and counsels interest in and having the work reflect that there was definitely a significant amount of interest in exploring and pursuing a the equity question which I will broadly characterized as all community members whether they live inside a manufactured housing community or in a subdivision or in an apartment building should have access to equivalent services whether they be provided privately or publicly

[15:01] and also a desire under equity that we look at the actions in a through a lens that minute would minimize gentrification and displacement now a lot of equity if people have to leave because of either of those so I wanted to highlight that they did support we had proposed five categorized the public input in the research into five work areas they asked us to analyze all of those with a priority placed on cadrin Stabilization infrastructure issues and then licensing which we of morphed into something local enforcement which we think is the really the core issue there and then counsel requested that if possible when they did meet again or certainly by the end of this term that there have some ordinances to consider so we have a list of seven that we have proposed will be interested in your feedback on that we

[16:01] that there was a request to add accountability as a principal so we have done that to the affordability viability and community and I'll just provide quick just read how the short description of that with which we provided in the materials that were available for review but the agreements ordinances and requirements should have clearly defined and practical enforcement mechanisms accessible to the affected parties especially to manufactured housing community residents is intentionally inclusive of concerns that the owners of the parks and managers of the parks might have to their there are usually two parties to a dispute sometimes more and it should serve all of them equivalently so what did we do in this third phase since we were in front of you last we dove in we did it I'm substantial in a departmental analysis in these five areas get a little bit more research and then develop the five now five documents that

[17:01] we shared with you and are eager to hear what your input is on those and then we have this draft action plan and potential ordinances as a result of that we've been conducting additional public engagement which will continue until we are compiling the strategy and the memo for council yeah can you just talk a little bit about that public engagement piece I've been leading that charge for us sure so through the first phase we gathered a list of more than 100 email addresses of people who are interested in learning more about the this process as it continued so that's the primary way we've been communicating with people since that time we have a survey that's like it's not a survey it's a feedback form that's live on be heard Boulder right now we're also we've linked all of the documents that you have seen that we're linked in your memo and we've been

[18:00] receiving some feedback through that mechanism also we always make it clear that people can reach out to us personally and some people have primarily what we've and oh and we held an open sort of what we called open office hours where we were at the West Senior Center for a few hours on a Wednesday afternoon and evening and people could drop by and ask us specific questions and give specific feedback I know we also have a couple of individual meetings set up with residents as well who were not able to be there that night and primarily we have not had a lot of direct feedback and our sense is that outrage drives feedback for the most part our hope is that that is reflective of the fact that people are seeing what we've put together and are feeling good about what we've put together that may be an assumption on our part but we know this community quite well and we know

[19:01] that they would tell us if we were getting it wrong so so we're feeling pretty good about about what we have heard back so far and even about the gap of what we haven't all right so we have been to the youth Opportunity Advisory Board for their feedback we're here tonight and we'll be going to the Human Relations Commission on Monday the 15th of July for their input all to prepare and provide help shape the manufactured housing strategy that will be presented to Council on the 6th of August we decided that we'd give you a little bit of a summary headline approach to the analysis some of the high-level takeaways that led to us proposing the action plan items that we did the one of the main thing that's that has changed in our environment is the

[20:01] the interest in and action at the state level for items of concern to people who work in and with manufacturer housing communities so that led to the pass of passing of legislation and potentially will see another bill so the environment for state level activity action on some of these issues has changed pretty significantly and depending on how that plays out it could affect what we would want to do here and now over the next few months we dived in and looked at the infrastructure question particularly around what it would take to make the infrastructure public in a manufactured housing park and it was very challenging to accomplish complex legal issues with the combining of public services on private land very potentially expensive given the need to meet certain standards for construction but also the government

[21:02] we would be complying with such things as the Americans with Disabilities Act and some of those requirements would probably lead to greater space being necessary that is currently available which means either the loss loss of some space that it currently isn't used for roads and services which would probably lead to the loss of homes which is contrary to our stated purpose of preserving this type of housing in some ways so the overall approach we're taking on infrastructure is to propose ways that would support and enhance the ability of the private owners of this infrastructure primarily the in-ground infrastructure to be sure that it's well maintained and continues to serve the residents of the community as well so that's the key to what we are proposing under infrastructure on pad rent stabilization given the questions about

[22:00] the state prohibition on rent control and its applicability this type of housing and the potential change at the state level if something were to happen and the interest and at least two of the four profit communities in potentially entering into some kind of voluntary agreement to limit rents we are proposing the set of actions that we are which does not include in local rent control ordinance at this time so that's the rationale there as we looked at licensing programs both here in other places it became clear that the primary issue yeah you can clarify that one more time the pad rents are only on the table not local control there are the strategy we are suggesting be pursued is to advocate for a change to this or a clarification if necessary to the state statute on rent control to determine if

[23:02] it does actually apply or not do manufactured housing as a housing type if that were to be clarified so that it did not apply then there would be the opportunity to do a local ordinance if we chose if these if the state were to pass a regular some kind of restriction on rents pad rents and manufactured housing communities they would probably preempt a local ordinance potentially so pending state action we'd like to understand what's going to happen there to see what that path might look like given the unknowns there that seemed like a wise choice to make at this time and if there's an opportunity to accomplish that goal directly with the owners and managers of the parks that's something we'd like to pursue - perfect thank you right so on monitoring compliance licensing the conclusion we

[24:01] came to was it really boils down to who is going to pay attention who's going to have resources for people to solve problems and you will need staffing to run a licensing program our current city practices don't fit well with this type of regulatory program so we are suggesting that our goals could be better achieved by passing ordinances that would require certain things and then having a staff position that knew them thoroughly knew the compliance pathways knew the problem resolution mechanisms including the new state level program and could help people both owners of parks residents of parks people interested in moving into parks - to learn about those options and use them so that's the the essence of what we're talking about there is is dedicating a staff resource to this and that will either take creating a new

[25:01] position with budget implications for that or repurposing current position which has implications for the workload and what else that person was doing would drop off in the last takeaway which wasn't too surprising but is that for if we really want a permanent presence of this type of housing in our community and looking at the various issues we've been wrestling with over the years that we to the extent we can enhance the opportunity for residents or nonprofits to own and operate manufactured housing communities it will probably serve our goals better over the long time long term the long term being permanent where you may have only once a generation turnover and ownership of a park or a manufacturer housing community but eventually that's going to happen if it's a if it's privately owned and you no matter how good the current owners and managers may be the changes over time and if if we want to align the

[26:02] interests of the residents with how the land is managed this is the path to do it I have a question Jeff does that one that you're talking about now where resident or nonprofit ownership is that does that tie in at all Tenny the specific issues you discussed with different approaches yes in which both the action plan talks about creating a local right of first refusal or an opportunity to purchase so that in the event a park was for sale the residents would have a chance at it we are the good fortune of having thistle communities becoming a resident own community national affiliate and have a staff member whose job it is to help residents or potentially there are designee Xand nonprofit purchased parks around the state and the city has and we're proposing the continuation of our policy of supporting any attempts to purchase a park within the city by a

[27:00] resident group or nonprofits with money technical assistance etc so I sort of missed that and which approach does that tie in with so I can make sure I'd pay attention to it when we get to discuss so on the action plan is let's see we have there's two prongs to it I should mention one is advocating for state legislation but in this case we're also proposing a local ordinance so to get ahead of any potential changes at the state level so it would be where do we put six a are there other because it overarching accomplishes hopefully many of our goals and then under continuing actions one advocate for improvements to the state mobile home park including an opportunity to purchase and actually funding for resident purchases thanks

[28:02] all right so how just a little context for the action plan we took a two-year focus that's time horizon that is much more predictable in terms of policy direction in terms of budget and the other staffing resources and would lead to more immediate action than a longer time horizon and we didn't want to go any shorter than that because of the scope of what we want to what we're proposing one of the things that we tried to do in the action plan was prepare for the future whether it's for infrastructure or state legislative changes potentially 2020 legislation so some of the actions you'll see are piloting programs for future implementation we don't anticipate that a two-year work plan will capture everything we want to accomplish or fully accomplish our goal so we want to think for the future we have more than 15 items on there but at least 15 of

[29:01] them are clearly new items and some of which are substantial they do address at least in part all five areas of the work that we laid out for council to give you a sense of the scope if all of these would be too adopted 7 departments would be working in this field not just housing and Human Services by any stretch and we also just included the ordinance ideas and the action well the action plan and defined to some extent the ordinances that we have listed the 7 ordinances so that's pretty much how we came up with the action plan after looking through the analysis taking into account all of the feedback that we've had to date and we have a draft that's out for comment to to be tightened up and improved by the public's input quick note on engagement we are following the trying to follow as best we can the decision-making process we're currently at the evaluate options develop recommendation stage and then we'll be

[30:01] moving into decision and implementation and feedback stages I jumped ahead there step seven would be make a decision that's Council on August 6th and then we'll follow up with reflection and communicating the public yeah since we're on an engagement approach one more time was all the stuff we did distributed in Spanish as well yes everything is online available in Spanish and the be heard builder website has a translation tool on it so the feedback form is also available in Spanish and what was done for people without internet access or computers so we did the open the open access we also have our engagement specialist our Latina engagement specialist who is contracted through the housing department to work specifically in those parks she has been aware of the strategy all the way along and has been communicating

[31:01] and texting links to her folks we have found that most people have a phone available to them and texting a link can be the best way to get them involved thank you oh and we've also at C mob meetings since March we have had translation at every meeting and those folks have been made aware of this strategy and the feedback opportunities as well and that group has been instrumental in this conversation all the way along as you all know could you tell me what that means sorry C mob is the coalition of manufacturer and homeowners in voltar and that's a group that has been meeting since 2017 that crystal and I support one quick note for the board since we are doing strict Robert's Rules of Order if you want to be recognized please just and the executive director of the Rocky

[32:03] Mountain Home Association which is this trade group representing mobile manufacturer housing communities and I have exchanged emails and been in conversation about their engagement and you received a letter shortly before the meeting that and there may be more opportunities to engage with the owners of the parks that way and I think we've covered all of this so we'll just move right on the the focus of what we're trying to accomplish with the public engagement now and the boards and commissions is getting feedback on the work we've done so far and then trying to get people's priorities what will its our stated goal is to develop a prioritized action plan so not just 20 something items but which ones are most important which ones are the ones that we should tackle first so we'll just move into your questions and then public

[33:00] hearing and then the three questions we have for you were you hoping to get your feedback on which you can provide to us and we can cap or you can provide it in the form of a recommendation if you so desire are these three yeah the principles which we've updated and and the action plan items and the orc priority what you believe should be prioritized and do we want to just do this an order down the row for questions great Jeff a couple questions in the three privately owned mobile home parks how many total mobile homes are there approximately 1200 1200 of the 13 inch hundred and change a little under 1200 little under 1200 the average pad rent is we know that the pad rents range from 725 to 800 and the market rate ones and

[34:01] average in there we don't have access to ok and then I'm corrected unlike rental housing in Boulder where you have to have a license and somebody comes inspect your property that does not exist in mobile home universe that's correct for the rental of the pads if you rent if you own and rent a mobile home which does happen in particularly in one park has more than 100 rentals then they are required to have a rental license is that Boulder Meadows yes structure the streets are they maintained by the city that's correct okay thank you so first of all before I ask questions I have to say that it was a dream to read this like the way you laid it out was awesome where you highlighted what the principles were

[35:00] with each approach and I just thought it was so great and I felt like in incorporating that you were really listening to all the people who talked to us and in all our questions and I thought it was super so I had sent Brenda and Jeff five questions and Jeff really answered them so I just want to mention a couple aspects I'm just curious about the state ordinance do you foresee that say at the last minute or once this is done all of a sudden opening up whole new options perhaps depending on what the state does I believe you're referring to the implementation of the state dispute resolution and enforcement program or are you talking depending on how the rules are set for that program and how its administered it's possible it could adopt several create the opportunity for

[36:01] people to engage with each other and resolve issues without involving the city whether it's through ordinance or through a specialist position so that's a possibility we won't know for some time until the program is fully developed and implemented exactly what opportunities it might create for us that are different than what we have already know crystal has followed very closely I don't know if you have anything to add I think I think the the greatest opportunity is it's a landlord really focused on landlord tenant issues in those communities so a lot of times those issues come to us and we are that's not necessarily what we do and so I think just having a focused opportunity to have those issues resolved will be very beneficial because we do we do get a lot of those you know types of conflicts and it'll be a place

[37:01] for those to get resolved I'll add that part of the idea behind the manufactured housing specialist position that we're recommending is that that person would help navigate both or help owners and residents navigate when to use those state mechanisms and when to use local mechanisms and and is it possible that the most excellent resolution mediation that the city has ever be an option they engage in in conversations with those residents and the ownership quite often actually already and then I have just one more question once you do this and the ordinance ordinance is passed or we however it goes will there be some mention that there will be periodic follow-up to see if there are any new things that crop up after the ordinances

[38:00] etcetera are you talking about local action at this point once the city of Boulder makes their decisions and it goes on will there be some mechanism for city staff seeing our new things done did we leave something out if we do have a staff position that's dedicated to this that part of that role of that would be to evaluate and you know adapt and adopt new either changes or new initiatives based on the experience first of all Mason says hello she couldn't be here tonight but she had a couple of questions that she wanted clarification on first being how is the Latino mediator outreach being reported or measured I know that Luce has been reaching out to her folks and she has

[39:00] given us feedback herself on the strategy that I haven't gotten clarity from her entirely if that's based on what she's hearing or just her own experience she lives lived in a park in Denver herself and so she has direct lived experience of the situation so I'll check in on that with her and find out if if she's giving us a roundup of what she's hearing or if only speaking from her own great if you could email that to the group I also I wanted to add we also have contacts with the Nepalese community in Boulder Meadows so we've also sent that contact all the links and asked her to share with her community and offer to come out and meet with them with an interpreter if they would meet with and kind of answered it a little bit but do you know what her response level is I don't at this point although doubt okay and my personal questions I didn't

[40:06] really hear a lot about the concerns of like gentrification and just even within within the rules people being displaced by you know one of my major concerns was like if tiny homes are replacing manufactured housing that is already affordable by its own right because it's a different type of manufactured housing is there anything in place or plan to be in place to avoid that type of thing yeah I think right now the major impediment to that would be that are the manufactured housing zone I mean right now the only structure you can live in is a manufactured home or a mobile home okay and that's clarified so since a tiny home I'm sorry since the tiny home is technically manufactured it's it's

[41:01] not it has to be a HUD certified home I'm I'm just trying to think if there would be any loophole that would allow I haven't I'd have to think about that if it were a HUD certified manufactured housing unit then it would be allowed in an existing in our existing zone to the question of how gentrification concerns show up one of the ideas that we explored and are not recommending is the modification of the mobile home zone to allow different types of housing so that was a direct concern about if we were to if that were to happen and other types of housing were to replace what's currently there or the current type of housing it would likely be more expensive all right slightly to that yeah the community that had interest in that was the one affordable community but

[42:03] there would definitely be you know from an affordable housing perspective that would need to be taken into account Mason was asking are there still companies that make HUD certified new mobile homes not in Colorado at this time which is another thing we are working on and have included in the action plan gotcha and she one more note about having his haider program with our outreach coordinator as well as she said there's a group of Russian people in the other parks that probably need to be addressed as well I haven't met them but I will make a point to see if I can connect with them all right she might be able to provide more clarification on what she was thinking for you Thanks thank you a

[43:05] little bit of a clarification on the infrastructure so these are all privately installed systems that then connect to the city's infrastructure at some point and so that's essentially being treated like the pipes in my house city although the city actually has more control over the pipes in my house then we have over the infrastructure in the mobile home parks I think that's a reasonable comparison to make I'm not sure about the relative oversight ability between your house and a manufactured housing community but similar issues yes okay and did you say that at the state level that's something that they're also engaging with means to be seen that may be part of I either the development of a dispute resolution and enforcement program or subject for 2020 legislation don't know yeah yeah the

[44:03] next round possibly okay another question on the kind of pad rent stabilization and there's a talk about involuntary unless something else happens at the state level which would allow it to be have there been discussions about if it's voluntary any type of an incentive based program for that on the city side to support yeah our interpretation of the current Supreme Court decision in Colorado and implementation of the state prohibition on rent control a voluntary agreement does require an exchange of something of value so likely we would be looking at some some type of an agreement that's for the city to be able to enforce that agreement we could certainly enter into a voluntary agreement that is a statement of intent but we probably

[45:00] couldn't enforce it so and that could take variety of forms maybe not cash mm-hmm are there any have there been any kind of discussions around the two of the perks of to the manufacturing communities have their ownership have expressed interest in this there's been discussion with at least one that proceeded beyond the expression of interest okay and one last one has to do with the preservation what's the reality from your perspective of the expansion of mobile home parks considering land values and the like so we have proposed under land use five that an inventory be done a review essentially to figure out what the realistic potential is and what whether or not that's a goal the

[46:02] expansion part that is really going to be realistically achievable or not we felt that that was a good starting point before we invested much time in looking at land use changes to the existing zone so yeah I looked through the ordinances and it it looks like the land-use change analysis will be ongoing but not probably show up in an ordinance for August at this point it's that I am confident that it will not be is to spend some staff time looking at parcels of sufficient size that where it's an allowed use or potentially not too different from the current zoning to see if there's anything out there that meets the economic and space requirements yeah did you get any feedback from council on that item okay thank you

[47:02] any last questions before public participation yeah Terry Jeff you mentioned that hud-certified housing mobile homes are not made in Colorado there there is no facility I'm not aware of any facility that it actually makes you one so make them Kansas and Nebraska and whatnot then bring them in but they sell them here like Clayton Homes and other groups so you can you can buy one here but they make it somewhere else and bring it in yes okay thanks I had one more I thought so if there is no check-in for rental inspections what is the normal sort of when does the city encounter you know manufactured housing as sort of a check-in so at the sale of the home when when there was a it's ten twelve I think

[48:02] 25 in our structures chapter of the boulder revised code there they've created a prohibition on limiting the sale of pre seventy six homes and part of that kind of to balance enabling people to sell their pre haven't e6 homes at one point there were look there was one community where people are being told they couldn't sell those homes and so there is actually a kind of a modified licensing inspection but it's not for licensing it we just kind of build off of that and then and then it kind of backs it out and makes it kind of like an inform so that the buyer at least has the information it's not a city check-in on that home but it's giving the buyer the information they would need to be an informed consumer so to expand on that a little bit we don't have much in the way

[49:00] of formal check-ins we have as prior to this project and probably after this strategy is adopted there will be residents of the communities and potentially the owners will reach out to the city for a variety of reasons just as neighborhood people do in any other place so if we do end up with at the state level we will have a formal dispute resolution program if we have a dedicated staff member we will develop some kinds of procedures and protocols for checking compliance with local ordinances is being implemented again part of the idea behind that staff position is that they would have the room in their work plan to be a little more proactive than we're able to be in most situations so they would they could directly work with owners to make sure that the owners remain in compliance with those regulations and last thing

[50:03] Mason said that the Russian population has the is at the park on 55th and Valmont for clarification all right any any other questions yes so Vista Village is also in that same area same Lazar is on one side and this de village is on the other side so she might be referring to vista village but i can clarify with her right we're gonna go into public comments and we have three people signed up just to remind people of the rules you get three minutes with a pulling option no one has pulled you have 30 seconds when the light turns yellow and when the light turns red if you could

[51:00] please wrap it up that would be great and our first we have a modification on the speakers tonight yeah Lynne Segal and Alicia Brooke had to leave so you can remove their names from the pilot thank you yep that leaves us with one public comment from James Feeny I'm James Feeney from North Boulder and thanks for the work from staff several weeks ago council member Bob Yates agreed to ask city counts City Attorney about the dark sky ordinance enforcement in mobile home parks and on June 17th chief deputy city attorney wrote a memo to City Council expressing the city attorneys legal opinion that quote the dark sky ordinance does apply to mobile home parks but then followed with however the light pollution standards of the dark sky ordinance cannot be

[52:01] enforced against individual units within a mobile home park unless there are actual property lines between mobile home Lots now as a general principle it is the responsibility of legal counsel to be well-versed and both facts in the law on any issue but here we see chief deputy city attorney go on to discuss the law but utterly failed to address the facts by raising the question about the need for mobile home parks to have actual property lines between mobile home park lots and then apparently refusing to answer the question and City Council meeting the following day when asked again about the dark sky ordinance enforcement mobile home park city attorney repeated the opinion provided by chief deputy city attorney and again failed to address the question raised as to whether mobile home Lots did or did not have actual property lines while at the same time insinuating that mobile home Lots did not in fact have property lines between the Lots city manager continues to refuse to

[53:00] enforce the dark sky ordinance anywhere in the city of Boulder in effect now since 2004 the legal opinion expressed by a city attorney requires that public streets in mobile home parks then do not represent any kind of property line it is my belief that the legal opinion of city attorney which leads to what I consider an absurd conclusion is therefore itself absurd so I again ask City the members of the housing advisory board to please ask City Attorney directly to articulate an explicit legal opinion as to whether or not there this actual property lines between mobile home lots and if not then what exactly is the nature of the supposed mobile home park land lease which has no defined property lines thanks thank you James

[54:02] okay I just have a comment I lived at Boulder Meadows for a couple years about eight or ten years ago and there were clear property lines when you're paying pad rent you know like I knew exactly where where my lot ended and what grass and flowers I could do and where the boundary line was and so I just think it would be worth is there any thing we can do to help clarify that so the creation of the housing advisory board does provide you with the ability to advise City Council or the city manager not the city attorney we can follow up as staff certainly but I don't believe you have the ability to advise provide any kind of request to the city attorney so yeah

[55:01] if you could that would be super because it just it just said it doesn't make sense that when I rented my little lot that that meant I could extend over into any neighbor's yard when I wanted or meander around I mean that was my property so none of the for mobile home parks have defined property lines to the individual pads whether they write their leases to tell you where your what you are renting has a physical description that we do know I have not seen that it's possible that you had it certainly one of the actions we are proposing is that there be some kind of a of where one lease responsibility area ends and when it starts probably would not be the case that we would advocate

[56:01] for individual Lots to be defined as separate pieces of property it would defeat a lot of the goals that we're trying to accomplish here James you had about 40 seconds left you want to follow up I just wanted to mention my reading of Boulder city ordinances allows that the attorney is advisor to all board and commissions and so certainly the housing visor board has the authority and the city attorney has the responsibility to answer any inquiries of a legal nature yeah we just can't tell them what to do it's what Jeff is getting that perfect thank you Jim any other public comment okay we're gonna close the public comment period for the manufactured housing strategy and we'll go into board discussion and decision so before we get into it I just wanted to do a quick straw poll of who wants to make a

[57:03] recommendation to Council this evening based on the questions that staff has for us so just quick straw poll show hands sorry so there were three questions that were asked do you mean we'll take them individually and want to know sure we can do it any way you want I'm just wondering if anyone wants to make any recommendation to Council this evening and if we do so we need a unanimous for the alternative would be to have your discussion and we will capture that as board input that is a different level of board feedback to Council than a formal recommendation that's voted on it and tonight would have be unanimous yeah could we sort of see how the discussion goes and then overall in agreement of things then somebody

[58:01] could make a recommend that's fine too sure okay we'll start with Terry we'll circle back to Terry so should I just do the the first question yeah okay let's go with the first question so I am in favor of all the principles I have two comments I want to add and one is that to me accountability is the key one and I'm so glad you added that because without accountability it just sort of throwing something out there it doesn't have any real teeth in it the other thing is that community was also one of the principles and I think in some of the approaches community and accountability are really closely aligned and I just want to mention that if you're if you have good

[59:00] accountability then the community is benefitting so I just want to mention this I also support all the feedback are starting now if you think the principles of the manufactured housing strategy I don't really have any additional notes at this time Chuck I would also say I appreciate the addition of the accountability piece to this it seems like that's a significantly lacking component to the manufactured housing world and I would just land I think the viability and the community to some degree are really based in the affordability as well so I mean just a strong focus on how these policies impacts gentrification and how they impact affordability and to keep that kind of first and foremost seems like

[60:00] that would be an important kind of strategy in this David any input on one well I joined the Planning Board just as we were finalizing the 2015 version of the BBC P which was actually finalized I guess in 2017 but it's it's great to see progress on these there are clear guidelines in the BBC P that need to be addressed so it's I'm happy to see these things being done sometimes when I struggle with a lot of policy driven concepts is accountability and they sound great you know everybody can rally behind it but what does that actually mean you know what what does accountability mean priority should be making sure that the

[61:00] people who live in these communities have reliable quality water sewer gas electric all the time so how can we do that how can we force how can we require the owners of these parks to make sure that at a bare minimum that exists because it doesn't always exist and and I think that's you know although good words of community and reliability and accountability all kind of you know can flow towards that how do we make sure these people have basic city services how can we do that and do we hold the private property owners the park owners accountable well what does that mean is that we finally have to get permits what do we do so that's my two cents and just a quick note Mason thinks number one is great and she's very thankful for all of

[62:01] your work and we'll go to number two teri did you oh sorry Judy well since we did seem to have pretty much unanimity on that I mean basically the things you were saying you're interested in our accountability sorts of things so since we all are in agreement is that one we could say I move to recommend yeah yeah that's okay I move that we that have agrees with the principles is that is that the right way to say it yeah yeah have supports all the principles yeah supports is good does it seem to we can see if anyone seconds or not okay we'll open that up for discussion then I'll just start so you want that as a formal recommendation to Council I don't see why not we're all in agreement yeah just

[63:01] clarifying so the motion would be for a formal recommendation against what I believe I don't know how Corey wrote it down but that's how I understood it we're doing this yeah Judi has made it so that we're gonna do it one by one sounds good which is fine by me so I wrote in the notes that nog motioned to support the manufactured housing strategy principles jooheon's seconded and now we're waiting for a vote is that correct correct thank you any other discussion I just have a question if we do it as a recommendation will the kind of art captured comments also be a piece of this we just that works include your recommendation as it

[64:01] was made and approved in the memo to Council you could certainly choose to communicate it separately if you wanted we if you wanted us to capture more than just your approved motion as input to Council we could do that too so sure how about on the end we'll ask if we want to capture anything besides what staff has asked for and then if we as a board agree on it we'll include it in the recommendation cool alright moving on to number two all right all those in favor that's unanimous abstain does it still just kidding and the motion passes unanimously all right number two does have have

[65:02] input on the proposed action plan will start with Terry I don't have any input can I pass and come back you go Nick I didn't have any input on the proposed action plan either I support it I also support the proposed action plan and just with the statement that I think that seeing how the state level stuff is gonna roll out this is kind of critical in this path yeah I was glad to see references to the Ponderosa work because I think there's going to be a lot of lessons learned there that may guide some future things but your concerns about avoiding gentrification and all that kind of stuff is very interesting and I think it'll be really useful to look at how that site pans out so having

[66:03] those references there makes sense just when to comment on them I just have a question since this is like an important decision these are these are the 8 things we're talking about is there oh there's three slides I think capture at all but this is just the same thing that's in the action plan just a little bit briefer and with some graphics attached anyone want to make a motion no one seemed to post right no one was anyone want to make a motion that's a lot of things you know and I think I mean I'm a supporter of all of them but again I always try to narrow it down to you know instead of trying to to

[67:02] do everything let's just do some things or maybe fewer things are really really well that's my only comment there's a lot of things on there a lot of things on the list and effectively getting most of them done I think is a pretty pretty tall task I'm gonna speak we can address that in the third part to you what should be prioritized they asked for that so we can talk about that next any other discussion hmm well that's where I was gonna go to that I think they're all important and I agree with you that some are more important than others and we can talk about it later but if we'd like all of these we can either vote on it or say there was unanimous agreement I mean we didn't vote nobody wants to vote I don't care if we vote I mean I would suggest we wrap these two together and then after

[68:00] we have the discussion of the prioritization of these if we find that there's a common theme that we could vote on and want to recommend that we do that and we've um please - I agree with that personally I don't know what staffs normal processes what they see is the priorities what they think they can accomplish most easily so since I'm not involved in the day-to-day I would refer my input to staffs recommendation um that's me personally obviously there are things that stand out here but I'm not on the ground doing the work so and maybe if you have any feedback on that point so we have intentionally not prioritized them because we hadn't put them out in a comprehensive list for

[69:02] people to see yet so if we had done that with our suggested priorities we felt like we would prefer to allow people to comment without having that information so that we in part we can we can factor that in and part of what we're trying to do is accomplish the community's goals and how the community interprets those goals and what would best achieve that is yes there is a function of what we think you know our staff expertise and our resources could best implement but we didn't propose anything here that we didn't think could get done you know there's a few things or some unknown certainly but we tried to winnow those out already alright with that being said then I'm just going to say all health and safety concerns are my first priority followed by affordability concerns as number two and pretty conflict resolution number three and everything

[70:00] else kind of falls beneath those three personally could you flip through those again the other ones so we had four essentially four groupings or continuing actions continue to advocate at the state level for mobile home park act improvements continued support resident own communities or nonprofit own communities to continue with our existing efforts to support residents whether that's staffing a staff logistical support for the sea mob group the Neighborhood Services grants or the consultants support we've been providing to homeowner associations and then to continue funding our home repair program so those are all things we've been engaged in and want to continue doing because they've been effective under infrastructure and Terri you know if you

[71:02] have any questions about why we chose or whether you agree with that it'd really be interested we saw some of the reasons I mentioned before we think it's worth exploring local standards and determining what does constitute the community's expectations for privately operated water and sewer systems and then creating some not just what those expectations are but you know how do we make sure that we're getting what we expect then one of the things that we know can be an issue is if you were to try and replace infrastructure you have to meet current code it was installed to the code from 40 or 50 or 60 years ago sometimes meeting current code is difficult to do under the constraints you have of let's call it street width so there are options that we can explore to enable the replacement of infrastructure that still meets our health and safety requirements within some of these other constraints so

[72:01] that's the second item there to ensure that there isn't any perceived barrier to making any improvements and if there are actual barriers and the code figure out get ahead of that so that when it does come time to replace things it's a straightforward process and more predictable and therefore easier to do we're proposing is that owners of these parks to provide the city with some information essentially about and basically hopefully these are already in place and it's a simple question of just explaining the plans that they have and if they don't exist or are very informal this might incentivize people that spend a little more time thinking about how the future will play out for these infrastructure systems and then the fourth one we're recommending is in the event of a sewer or water disruption of a certain duration to be determined that that the

[73:03] owners of the parks be required to provide some payment to the residents of the park for the lack of services and the disruption to their to help them essentially mitigate that by paying them the equivalent of lodging alternatives so that they can have a place with water and/or sewer to live while this is getting fixed so that was that was our thought process there these this collection of things we believe would help us get closer to or maybe even all the way to believe you're hoping we can have which is privately operated systems operating at the same level as publicly operated systems all right so what's what are the rankings for people here nobody except me has prioritized yet

[74:01] sorry sorry well I'm just saying what I said earlier infrastructure that functions and safety I don't know if this is exactly on point but maybe three or four years ago how many big Walker I walk all over town so I was walking through a mobile home park and there was a fire yesterday with us where a mobile home burned down and I believe somebody was in it and died that's correct I just don't ever want to see that again because I stood there and watched that thing burned down yeah so what can we do to make sure that that doesn't happen in the irony the fire department was literally right down the street but anyway and to be clear most likely we don't know I don't know that circumstances but that would involve expanding or changing in some way how we work with privately-owned residences and I know one of the questions will be do we have the same do

[75:01] we apply the same standards to manufactured housing as apartments as owned homes or is there a compelling reason to have a different standard work effort we did not include but we could endure their fire hydrant the same fire hydrant requirements in mobile parks as they do in division a bur hoods I don't know for sure find out I am confident that the sizing of the hydrants in their location is fairly modern I was just gonna say I think it's probably based on when they were constructed yeah yeah and they so probably not I mean whereas we're doing Ponderosa for example I'm the project manager for that project there will be more there will be more fire hydrants than there aren't right now we'll check in to just get because I know I'm curious I'm walk through these all time and anyway

[76:01] there's no talking about permanent affordability or another bullet points and where maybe I'll know one before I think yes no I see that right price restrictions what do you limit a nice way of saying rent limits it's probably more limits on how fast the rents can go up absolute limits I know this is not on there and this is probably way out there and it goes against a little bit of preserving the mobile home the number of mobile homes but I would I would venture to guess that the owners of these private parks if given the opportunity to redevelop some of their park I'm just I'm not speaking for them I'm just guessing if given the opportunity to redevelop some of their park into something else maybe would agree to limit the rents on the rest of it which would whereby you

[77:01] understand what I'm saying we would get some permanently affordable mobile home pad rents in these areas so not only does renting similar to I see rental rates similar to percentage of ami or whatever may be I know that was another but but I know some of these guys and I think it's an ideal thank you I mean some of these properties are really big like 80 acres and so if you say hey if you know you can redevelop this into something else yep yep and that I'm confident would meet the test of being enforceable voluntary agreement under the current interpretation of the limitation on rent control okay so although I think that everything you've outlined is important and would be great to get to at some point the last two general categories of energy and land use don't prioritize as

[78:01] hi for me as all the others I'm actually kind of following Judy's lead on that as I look through these especially you know the energy efficiency component as far as costs and you know I think that one doesn't prioritize so high for me I think you know depending on how we would try to create funding for that or what I mean there's I'm not sure what's behind that entirely but and then I think that the some way kind of long Terry's concerns of like trying to figure out a way to get better I don't want to say control but oversight in some way of the health and safety components would be my priority in there and then following behind that doing

[79:04] that in the way that will maintain affordability in those spaces David yeah and your contribution okay I think those are good priorities from the board's so for the sake of wrapping this up and trying to find some consensus I think we all agree that health and safety is the top priority do we want to include any others secondary and tertiary to that I'm big on the permanent or affordability component as the second one and I could take or leave I forgot what I said is the third one actually I know it's a conflict resolution conflict resolution and which so which of those highlighted in bald areas are we especially liking like which you know like I didn't look at it that way

[80:02] so I and I agree with you but I like some of this other stuff too of like health and safety obviously would be infrastructure but the things they're already doing to continue I think are important to like to me everything is important now except for maybe the energy and the land use which is important but could be later you know and I think they all sort of dovetail into each other and I like the way you frame it sure like Jeff said there's nothing that's not going to be gotten to at some point here correct no I think I tried to say that we proposed things that we thought could be achieved most ambitious program within two years if council wants to direct city resources to accomplishing those things and it could be there is a prioritization it says do these in two years and do the rest in the future it could be some come off it could be others get added so I would hesitate to say they're all going to happen that's depending on the

[81:01] direction of council and the decision they make on what they want included and what they don't so what's people's temperature on saying all things related to health and safety you would take top priority on this list followed by all things related to affordability I was like a great motion Adam you should make that why I don't want to disagree because I'd really like to have us at unanimous but could we say it in such a way that we say we feel that energy and land use our lower priorities and we like all the other priorities and our emphasis of interest is health and safety and just say it like that because that leaves in all the other things and people don't have to sort out what we mean it's everything else but energy and land use but our special interest is health and safety so why don't we just turn that around and say that our top interests our health and safety related issues of

[82:02] affordability and then everything else is also important but can be done too later does that give you enough information on what we mean I think so all right I'm gonna move that way can you put it back up please the questions to the board that we accept the proposed action plan with a primary focus on health and safety a secondary focus on affordability and taking other priorities also into account after those two or if you want to phrase that better yeah you're welcome to do so Jeff whatever would be best for support the adoption of the action plan with a priority for health and safety issues

[83:02] followed by a secondary priority for affordability and a desire to prioritize remaining items other than energy efficiency and land use not removing those but there's a better way of stating that something but the energy the energy efficiency and land use items are the lowest priority of the action plan that get what you capture what you're thinking Chuck this would be kind of a friendly rewording but as I look at this what I see us focusing on is essentially saying we support all aspects of the action plan with a specific emphasis on the infrastructure and local enforcement another friendly addition though and the next affordability I'd like to have that

[84:01] in there with and then also say with the lowest priority being energy use and that just makes it real clear for everyone energy usin energy and land use that just makes it real clear for everyone the infrastructure and local enforcement do leave out the affordability component so we'd want to get that in there somewhere would it be helpful if I switched out and tried to type something up please do can you speak into the microphone please

[85:02] I'm also hearing the prioritization along the lines of what Jacques was saying of infrastructure local enforcement and pad rent stabilization while adopting the entire proposed action plan so proposed the plan but call out those three areas which include health and safety and affordability so you're not not calling out the other two you know what I mean you're not saying what these other two aren't important you're just saying these three are most important great does that seem right Jeff I'm sorry I'm sorry I was just saying that they accept the draft action plan and prioritize infrastructure local enforcement pad rent stabilization

[86:04] do you want the words health and safety use or you want to just go straight with the infrastructure and Oakland forcement I like having health and safety and affordability components like and then listing yeah with so accept the draft action plan with particular emphasis on health and safety and affordability by prioritizing to the topics the actions under infrastructure local enforcement and pad rent stabilization that makes those equivalent what do you want them ranked I was going with what Jacque sent in my order I think that to me those three are somewhat overlap well those the first first and third or someone

[87:00] overlapping anyway to me and so I think they are all having equivalent an equivalency there I wouldn't I wouldn't say that I'm specifically putting one of those above the others again the health and safety aspects of infrastructure and local enforcement and then the affordability aspect of pattern stabilization and our do you want those ranked personally I think Terry does as well so ranking them infrastructure local enforcement and pad rent stabilization I'm gonna have to go with Jacques on this part and hope we can work it out so we can get to unanimous I sort of figure in the most optimistic way that they're gonna that all those top three are gonna be embraced and I don't think we need to choose winners and losers of those top three because I think they're all very important but you just read it back to

[88:04] us the housing advisory board recommends a draft action plan with emphasis on health and safety and affordability by prioritizing the actions under infrastructure local enforcement and pad Ren stabilization over energy efficiency and land use the rent stabilization part to me should have an asterisk with some trade-off to the property owners not just blanket rent stabilization across-the-board just because for me we can add that after did the Brenda didn't you suggest we leave over we don't have to mention what's not included in our priorities being positive rather than what we don't just a suggestion I thought you were the one who wanted those I'd liked her idea about about

[89:03] doing the positive spin we want these three being priority yeah I think we can all drop off so then read the housing advisory board recommends the draft action plan be adopted I guess or accepted I can if you're comfortable with me picking the right word later we can do that with emphasis on health and safety and affordability by prioritizing the actions under infrastructure local enforcement and pad rent stabilization great there's a motion on the table shocked seconds I have made the motion all those in favor it's unanimous all right we're gonna take a five-minute 35 to

[90:04] discuss Alpine balsam thank you well thank you oh my gosh I think we just got old I think we have

[95:31] all right let's let's go back okay we're back in session and we're gonna have a staff up on the Alpine balsam area plan first though we're gonna have a brief comment by Jacque I just wanted to make brief comment because there was some citizen concern that I was not impartial in this Alpine balsam discussion and I

[96:01] have engaged to it the city attorney and my own moral compass and I am feel very satisfied that I'm well within the bounds of the city requirements Thank You Jacque and on the staff presentation great good evening thanks for having me Jeanne de anza with the comprehensive Planning Division the planning department so Alpine balsam area plan at previous meetings and discussions with the housing advisory board we've discussed the purpose of the area plan and the guidance that it will provide for the city site site redevelopment as well as the nearby areas so as you can tell on the map this is not just about the city site redevelopment but really the vision for the wider area around that the purpose of the discussion tonight is to give you a brief update on the information and the questions that were shared with the Planning Board and the City Council earlier this month and has discussed the community engagement and next steps we

[97:00] are not looking for your feedback on the options tonight but to provide some context before the community engagement and before you will be asked for feedback at the July meeting and our Planning Board member David is here to be able to provide some context from the Planning Board discussion if that's desired so before actually this was a couple weeks ago staff provided you with a link to the information and the materials for the council on the planning board and the options and materials are what we are calling the engagement draft these are the basis for what will go into the area plan and at this point we have options for land use and proposed strategies for access and mobility flood mitigation and other facilities and services these are the components for the community engagement we are refining those materials to respond to well just to ensure that they are understandable and clear and have the a lot more information about the look feel vision and character we'll be

[98:02] seeking feedback from the community to inform the development of a recommended draft plan for the community and for the planning board and council City Council in August so there are in those materials you probably saw the list of goals and objectives that were confirmed by the Planning Board and council and for this board the key points really are around the housing goal about creating diverse and affordable housing allowing for a variety of housing sizes types prices both rental ownership opportunities a diverse mixture of housing types that balances market rate and permanently affordable units and also housing that serves various community needs and a range of household types so staff perfect prepared a quite a bit of analysis that was included in those materials and the memos for the Planning Board and council about the affordable housing - and to inform the Community Engagement making progress

[99:01] toward of the affordable housing goal is a primary objective for the area plan and for the site development what we know about affordable affordable --i t of new housing is that for private development in the area affordability will likely be addressed through the cities include inclusionary housing program in the in the form of cash in lieu but for the city site we have more leverage and control we know that density directly affects the ability to support a development of sufficient size to leverage state and federal funds for a hundred percent affordable project and there will be a need for a mix of market rate and affordable housing and for the market rate to contribute to cash and low affordable housing outcomes are best supported on the site with more flexibility and future zoning for parking building Heights and density [Music] about land use options so staff developed five land use options that emphasize the different goals focusing on the critical

[100:01] need for housing and how the area might change to add housing which with for each of these options we developed some rough estimates for potential new units in the area and these are very high level projections based on simple dwelling unit per acre assumptions to be used just to show order of magnitude and the range of future potential and let me say as I mentioned we have more control about the redevelopment of the site we know that the hospital site will be redeveloped when we consider land-use changes in the area by no means forces redevelopment it simply allows or encourages it with these to meet various goals sometimes with those land-use changes that actually incentivizes redevelopment over time when those properties redevelopment so as I mentioned there's a lot of information and the materials though that are on the website on the project website that were provided for the City Council and for

[101:01] the Planning Board and there'll be a lot more that are provided for the community engagement that will illustrate that look feel character range of housing types and all of the urban design recommendations all of the things that really make this project exciting for in a vision for the area so I'm gonna quickly run through each of these land-use options just to give you an overview of what we're talking about with those option one which which was really the current trends minimal growth option it had it proposed a few changes in the area and for the for the city's hospital redevelopment site proposed medium density housing this was really based but let me step back as we had moved through the scenario development last fall and that updates with the city with the plant with the Planning Board in the City Council earlier this year the feedback from our decision-makers

[102:01] was really about the desired amount of housing to be achieved and so staff was not really intending to propose a more minimal growth and medium density option based on the goals to be achieved but we heard a lot of concern in the neighborhood so we wanted to just check back in this way this was included in this round however and in this discussion with our with our decision makers because of the limited ability to achieve affordable housing on the site the council recommended that the shop should not be taken further for community engagement okay option two is titled emphasized housing it focuses on encouraging future redevelopment in select areas to add housing several areas are proposed for the conversion of commercial and office uses to residential and mixed-use the neighborhood center is proposed for a change to an excuse business that's that area and purple to ensure that the heart

[103:01] of the retail center is achieved is maintained and also to achieve the vision for neighborhood centers from the comp plan this was really about allowing a little more flexibility in uses and commercial types of things to ensure that 15-minute neighborhood the character of the area would most closely reflect the mix density residential in the wider area especially to the south with a two to four stories in a variation of building types for the site this includes a range of higher density prototypes to allow variation in building and housing types and to allow greater flexibility in ways to achieve the affordable housing and this option offers good potential for affordable housing on the site option three come on for the area this option would steer future redevelopment towards housing uses that would allow have allow higher densities of housing development and it

[104:00] suggests converting non-residential uses to housing and proposes a bit more intensity than an option to to show in a way that might maximize that potential for the area similar to option two and also included in options four and five the neighborhood centers proposed for that change to mixed-use business to support the comp plan neighborhood center vision option three includes two higher density prototypes for the hospital site on that western side to allow for variation and buildings and again maximize the flexibility to achieve affordable housing the character would include buildings that range from two to four storey two to four storeys with more areas that are above 35 feet and offers good potential for affordable housing option 4 is emphasizing mixed-use so this would allow some intensification of use in the area and allow redevelopment of either business or residential uses this option acknowledges the desire that we heard from a lot of folks to preserve many of

[105:01] the medical professional medical or professional offices in the area while allowing some housing to develop above or alongside those uses for the hospital redevelopment site option 4 includes the same proposed prototypes as an option to to emphasize housing the character in the in the area would evolve over time to more mixed use or new housing and building heights could increase in some areas to 3 to 4 storeys and then option 5 is an emphasizing mixed-use with a strong Civic presence so option 5 is similar to four and recommendations for mixed-use in the area for the site it focuses on developing a significant Civic presence that is along with a city service center it would be it would include relocating the Boulder County Health and Human Services functions from the iris and Broadway complex the staff has been our city staff has been working

[106:00] with the county staff to fully understand the county space and parking needs for this location to be viable for Boulder County's use it would likely require utilizing the entire center block of the of the redevelopment site to accommodate 120,000 square foot building before stories as well as some structured parking for clients and customers there's a lot to consider about this option and ignominy acknowledge that there are several variables that we don't know and may not know for a bit of time we are working with the county to understand all of the processes and these variables including the potential for affordable housing at iris should they not be using that site for government services in the in the future so with this option the alpine balsam you know site area it would be more of a civic campus than the other options that would require structure housing there would be fewer housing units on the site than the other options however presumably there would be the potential

[107:00] for the housing at the iris complex for the from the City Council there was mixed support for this option several members wanted to keep this on the table to better understand that potential at iris and others thought this didn't really achieve our goals for affordable housing on this site but where we are is we're gonna continue to work with the county to understand this a little bit better ask some more questions of the community about their preferences for this and then weigh that moving forward with the with the draft area plan okay I'm just gonna touch briefly on Community Engagement you have a very draft description of our actual events with a with a phat typo that I apologize we just did those right before the meeting so we're trying to finalize dates and times and places so just as soon as we do I'm really hoping to have all of our times and dates confirmed and on our website and out for

[108:02] notification by the end of this week we the purpose of these really is to ask community members how these options best meet the goals what people liked about them what they don't like about them so that we can understand more where there's some common ground and some better and better ways to meet all the goals and address the concerns where as you can see we're planning several opportunities and venues recognizing that the engagement is occurring over this summer we've got events various weeks and also we'll have online engagement opportunities so we are focusing on the Wednesday July 19th open house that would be in the moon lobbie that's what the one where we had hoped to have the housing Advisory Board members attend and just mingle with the attendees to understand feedback around housing if that's acceptable with board members and we're welcome welcome you to join us for that and with that I don't

[109:02] have anything else to present but I'm happy to answer questions that helps you get ready for the when we actually will be requesting feedback in July did you have anything Jeff on this would you like to we had a few questions via email if you want to come up and answer some of those questions that would be excellent Kurt fern have our director of housing Human Services so I think I'll just answer one question that there was a common thread from some from some of emails today that I could give more clarity on so in when Jean presented at City Council last time there was a question from counsel it said something to to the effect how much housing would have to be created on on the site to be

[110:03] able to create affordable housing I said it was about a probably 170 units and so if I could explain the sort of the basis for that and give you a little more information and give you a chance to ask further questions as well so typically over the last few years it takes to do a low-income housing tax credit low-income project which is pretty much everything that we see in the rental market in Boulder typically it's taken a project size of at least 40 units that's been sort of the minimum however when the the new federal tax law came into place was that a year ago I think our year to me was two years yeah year ago I believe and that changed the

[111:03] tax credit pricing and now it's probably closer to 50 units so it's it's it's between 40 40 and 50 units that are required to create a fertilizing project in Boulder our inclusionary housing as you know increased last year from 20% to 25% that was based on financial analysis that was done of what the markets could contribute towards affordable housing without totally shutting the market down what was the most amount of for ability that could be created so if you multiply 40 or 50 units times four you get 160 to 200 units so it's really arranged there's each project is a little bit different depending on the price of land

[112:02] the density the size of units the mix of units but that's a really good rule of thumb that works for most projects we've also experienced that 30th and Perl that and were sort of joint developers with with bhp on that project that has pretty much from a financial standpoint worked out that way as well so it's sort of proven that method of methodology I had a fellow question of that so add a hundred and seventy units over eight and a half acres that's the size of the site correct yeah however there's other things on the site the hospital I'm sorry what the the office building which is being looked at to to house city staff is part of that eight acres there's flood control and there

[113:02] I don't know the acreage of the residential so the so just the would be the center and the West blocks is somewhere between three and four acres of developable person so in that number at the low end of option two with a hundred and seventy units you're looking at about thirty five to forty units per acre yeah so just as a comparison at 30th and Pearl that's about four acres that site um however that doesn't the streets wouldn't be counted into that they would be taken away from that so it's a it's it's smaller than that and there's about three hundred units going on to that site as well as some commercial uses as well sure there was

[114:00] just a lot of questions about acres or units per episode to get any affordable hasn't at all yeah so we're looking at thirty five to forty yeah yes so one hundred seventy is really probably probably the lowest number it's probably a range of 170 to 200 units the other aspect which is important is if the city if if this site was really a high priority for affordable housing and the city wanted to see a higher percentage of provisory on this site then we would have to invest further in in making that happen it wouldn't it couldn't occur through the to the IH program so that's just for 25 percent that's correct and gotcha any other questions for Kurt well he's here Chuck yeah I just wanted to ask and it's because of partially these questions on

[115:00] the units number of units per acre has there been further economic analysis and this might be for gene of and it's always a little difficult because we're talking both about the site and then we're also talking about the area plan here and it's easy to kind of lose track of where we are but for the site have we done further economic analysis of what the picture looks like development costs you know kind of ROI to the city as an investor have those numbers been played out I I haven't seen them but maybe I'm just missing them somewhere I'm curious we had some of that information that was provided to the City Council for their May 16th discussion around the hospital deconstruction and then but again there's there's there's still some uncertainty about I mean that was that

[116:03] was really more focused on the deconstruction of the hospital costs the moving and there were there was some there was some information provided in that and we can forward that information around the renovation for the pavilion and there were some ranges ballparks for some of the infrastructure costs some of some of that you know could be coupled with housing types of things and some of the rest so again they're they're pretty big ranges at this point yeah I guess what I'm what I'm kind of getting that there is just a look at balance between market rate and inclusionary ih funds that would come from that and the development the site and just kind of like where where do those numbers kind of hit their sweet spot and are you essentially suggesting that this rough

[117:00] back in the paper things suggests 25 percent on the site is kind of the affordable capacity let me see if I understand your question so regardless of what the costs are for the site what we've done is we've based it on the market value of land or similar land in the city of alder for example if the city decided to sell a portion for residential development they would have to sell it at market value regardless of what their costs are so any analysis that would be done would be based on market cost taking that into consideration 25% is the is the most you could possibly obtain through a market solution unless there was more receipt of significantly more investment from the city does that help we're talking

[118:06] about units per acre we have an average size of the unit and these were sort of ball parking sure of course we were estimating like a thousand square feet per unit so food.if units were smaller it could be more units yep if units were bigger while you're still here um just playing out this Araneta scenario that if council were to say the project isn't worth doing and we want to you know just sell off the land again what is the most likely scenario for what's gonna happen that land when it's sold so how will it be developed that would be based on whatever the zoning ends up being so that's why this process is important and that's not sort of decided yet since

[119:01] that was public right right okay thank you yep regular questions we'll start with you Terry just to clarify if you define terms here the the site on all these under potential housing yield range of site is is the hospital exists in the hospital and the area is everything that's colored in except for the park is that correct so I understand that right and obviously the area is about eight and a half acres of the site's about three and a half acres area is everything that's colored so that's not the city's control night is really so on your maps yeah you see the area that's that says number two that is that's the character district that's that's those tooth

[120:01] that's the center and West block and then it also includes the east block that's that sort of part that between right up to Broadway that's the hospital site so that so when we talk about site it's the city-owned land and so it's that which is everything that's to but that but - the the south west corner that's not part that's not owned by the city there's a couple of the so the eight point eight acres is all of that area plus across the street the parking garage the Brenton building and the couple of vacant lots that are along North Street the if you're just talking about the housing part that's proposed in in the least three of the options that's the West block and the center

[121:00] block I want to say that that's somewhere between three and four acres it's okay we'll just move forward under the mixed-use prototypes mixed-use business is that just business like retail in office or is that housing as well not includes housing in well so again this is a this is one of those planning things when we're talking about land use prototypes and then they they correspond pretty well to the comp plan land use future land use map it really defines future and future uses hmm as we move forward with this and we talk about what these uses are and what we want it to look like the different housing types then during implementation we assign zoning so there's probably a few different zone zoning existing zoning districts that correspond to these different land use types or we can create new ones that

[122:00] actually match what we want to achieve in this area I understand we're way up so again the mixed-use business would that be safe to say that because it's a big part of this here and all these scenarios is that is that mixed-use with an emphasis on business versus the one below excuse residential is that a mixed-use with emphasis on residential it's an emphasis with mixed use on on business and it really allows a little more flexibility in the different types of commercial uses between the straight-up retail that we know that we see in these types of centers or professional services or personal services to be able to help around out the uses that really would make up that 15-minute neighborhood yeah and then the last question I have is this Civic option five Civic campus that's intended to house city employees and city services and city offices well first for each of the for each of the the options we have proposed that the medical pavilion so the on the corner of alpine

[123:02] and Broadway would be the future home for the city service center for the option five it includes more space in that purple that that entire Center black of the hospital redevelopment site that would also include the house the counties it would what they are hoping to do is consolidate a lot of the functions at IRS into something they like their Longmont st. Vrain Hobson to relocate that here the Civic presence of city and county offices city and county a little bit on that western side for housing okay thanks okay so Jean is this art this is our chance to ask you all our questions right okay so I have to apologize I studied this all day Thursday all day Friday all day Monday and all day Tuesday I don't want to save these questions tell the next time because I feel things are already so much more baked in and and I don't want

[124:01] to jump you with those questions at the last minute so I'm going to ask them all now so when I watched the City Council meeting where you talked there seemed to be comments from several people that City Council members really hoped you found a way of making things more comprehensible to the to the residents and they suggested pictures and this and that so I was thinking and I've even heard a few people mention a tonight it would really help if we could look at things unit per acre and there's a lot of things up in the air as far as if there's going to be a county building city offices how much will be used so you don't know exactly every time I've asked you you're not quite sure if it'll be between three point five or maybe even as much as five acres for housing but if in all your options you listed the range of units per acre that's the same way whenever a development project comes to planning board and City Council

[125:00] they always talk about the zoning units per acre and that would help people understand I think and would also help me understand if you could also let us know how many units per acre there are in comparable places like say Boulder Junction Paulo Park foothills community with the picture of each in the presentation so we could see okay maybe Boulder Junction doesn't fit in this neighborhood maybe it's great for xxx maybe it's not good for this neighborhood just to see and and also to see all the actual not that not the allowed by zoning but all the actual units per acre for the nearby apartments and condos surrounding the area so we could just have a better sense the other thing is is I sometimes worried that the whole big picture of this whole North Boulder is getting lost and there is that sight which is right for some kind

[126:00] of development there also is the iris Broadway site and there also is the diagonal IIIi don't live right in the Alpine bossom neighborhood but I'm adjacent to it so that those are all places where people in those neighborhoods go so I think there's development potential at the diagonal Plaza for sure for mix mix juice and and certainly at iris and Broadway and so I'm not sure I just wanna say I'm not sure we have to solve all problems of affordable housing in this particular site so so certainly talking in terms of units per acre though it would be a big step step in helping people understand I I didn't ask Curt questions because I did talk to him before the meeting I I still am confused about the need for a hundred and seventy units to have sufficient affordable housing because I I know that for example the attention homes apartments

[127:01] that are being built were built it's 40 units and there's no comparable market rate housing around it which I believe is because the city put in a lot of money on their own but that's another that is another way to avoid to avoid the density also I don't know if you've done this ER or not so I'm this is a question I'm asking when anything goes on in my neighborhood like if they want to talk about flood mitigation in my neighborhood or if there's something up for zoning we get a letter in the mail like every single person gets a letter usually it's a postcard in the mail with a link to look on and so has everyone not only in in the area plan gotten some notification that's just a question is that yes several times over the course of these engagement opportunities and

[128:01] within the wider area what we've done in those is we've continued to encourage folks to sign up for the planning newsletter because the mailings are costly and and difficult to be timely so we we know that it's a really easy thing to get one email every two weeks let's know about processes okay thanks and then these are just thoughts I had looking at everything I spent some time looking at the Boulder Valley comp plan today that's what I did and there's a whole section since you work so hard on it you're like you can probably recite it in your sleep but section two I think on page 40 talks about neighborhoods and and I feel like it would be great for everyone to touch base on what's important what's written in the comp plan that's important to neighborhoods and some of the the feelings of neighborhood character I also feel again

[129:05] that that Ireson Broadway and the diagonal Plaza have huge potential and I actually live much closer to iris and Broadway than I do the community hospital area and it's clearly better for more dense housing even though it would impact me personally it's just clearly a better spot for more dense housing than the Alpine balsam neighborhood so I just think looking at the big picture and other options again rather than thinking we have to do everything here I also in the letters today but it was also something I had thought about before the 0.8 parking space per resident does seem really unrealistic to me and it doesn't it doesn't seem to be borne out by what people actually doing and how many cars people actually have even if they leave them home most of the time they want to leave them somewhere and so it just

[130:03] doesn't seem realistic and I can see it causing terrible problems in the neighborhood and I know you didn't particularly want to talk about options but I I do and and I hope that there could be some way of looking at option 2 to have to put a units per acre range on it so people can know about the and have it be a little less intense than some of the others just for discussion I think that I think that's pretty much besides the question when you said the open house did you mean Wednesday July 17th it's the time where if we could come it would be good yep okay okay and so yeah so I know you've

[131:02] worked really hard on this and you've been really great and I I feel an obligation to find that sweet spot between affordability and maintaining neighborhood characters so that's where I'm coming from thank you okay I got a lot of mine towards Kurt so I only have a few but it's a few more just not necessarily questions statements so a lot of a lots been presented and I agree with Judy that units per acre is a much easier way to interpret but what I haven't heard is trying to address the problems that people are bringing up as their major concerns like traffic and like parking and what the potential options are to solve those so we can have that plan in place ahead of making a decision type of

[132:02] decision making because if you can you know reduce people's negative feelings towards the project by making the guarantees in advance of what parking would look like if you maybe create a parking zone a paid parking zone if you plan on installing additional speed bumps around the area since there's gonna probably be increased traffic in the area to reduce those sort of speed issues that people are concerned about potential additional crosswalks around the surrounding area since a lot of people are concerned about not being able to cross the street very easily those types of things seem to me important to get out ahead of what most people's worries are in order to make the process move a little bit easier if I could just respondent I know that what I presented here was really just about the land use in the housing parts but we did include we do have a proposed draft connections plan that outlines a lot of different improvements

[133:01] for access and mobility bike pedestrian and transit as well as roads in the area the other materials include an access and mobility strategy that outlines an access and parking district with recommendations for mobility hub a general Improvement District to do employee all of our sumps shared unbundled managed paid parking principals a lot of that was based on our case studies and and citywide data both from the boulder Junction area where we have a general Improvement District and the parking a lot of parking analysis about how many how many spaces are utilized in need needed in multifamily housing all across the city and then there was a traffic impact impact study done by our consultants that assessed all of these different options and concluded that in all of them both for the site and the area the

[134:03] growth is it's going to is less than what was traffic that was from an active hospital and can be accommodated I'm paraphrasing very simply of a long report with some recommendations for some improvements to flow so I could direct you to the to that information that was provided to the Planning Board City Council and will be part of the community engagement and will be providing information about perfect yeah that's just been lost to me in the conversation thus far so many moving pieces with all of this and a lot of information so that's under yeah and I see that as one of the main areas of concern so just making that a little more prevalent I think is important the only other thing I had I think Kirt address so I'm gonna let him shock speak I think you already hit some of

[135:01] the stuff I just kind of wanted to a little bit look at a review of a what's already been done on public engagement and that process with Alpine balsam site and then you spoke about kind of where we're moving with the area plan engagement process and I do feel like you know one of the difficulties I think of this entire process is the separation of the site from the area plan and in these engagements trying to make that a clear a kind of clear thing and I suppose the I think for the most part you kind of have already covered that question for me but I would just say moving forward you know yeah I know I know if we can try to do that one thing that I also want to ask you about picking up on something that Judy mentioned which is something that's been kind of causing

[136:01] me not quite sleepless nights but maybe close to it is that we're doing an area plan here and especially now with the county on board I don't know if there's any way to roll this back and I don't know how crazy it would be to try it but the thought of you know how are we trying to engage with this iris condition because it seems like such a critical piece again as Judy said and although others may not believe it is my belief that we don't necessary have to solve all our housing issues in this one site and with iris there how those to engage and to have more clarity on that would be great so I don't know you know you said you're still engagement with the county is that do we have any more real info from that yet or is it all still under the table we don't we don't have a lot yet I mean the county what we do know is that the county is in a similar process of the city and they need to consolidate their various

[137:02] services their buildings are aging they're not all suited for the services that they deliver they don't they don't do it in any kind of efficient way they have created this new hub in Longmont that works great and and works really well for their clients and for their staff and they're looking to replicate that in some shape and form we're going to be working with them to try to understand how that really works how that might really work on this site if it's really similar to the Longmont hub it would require a four-story building in that middle block of the site plus some structured parking and from an urban design and and site management goal we're thinking that that's probably not the most optimal optimal thing so it's not quite on the same track we're trying to understand that a little bit better we also know that that they have not you know they don't want to get ahead of anything with planning anything for the iris site there are a lot of variables

[138:02] there how much of those 17 acres redevelop because about half of them are ball fields can't we know the counties are not really in the business of active recreation like that and and what happens with with that and the open space and what the density might be and what the floodplain does and what the historic goes so there so there's still a lot of variables with that we don't want to get ahead of anything so what I can say is that we're still working on trying to figure out what the decision-making process is what what's a threshold how this might continue to move forward with some offense but we but we would like to get some feedback from folks about you know if if this if the Civic campus an Alpine balsam regardless of the potential for housing if that's acceptable if that's something that people want to want to keep on the table and continue to consider another

[139:00] question I have just kind of an overview the development process when the city has a piece of property like this I haven't paid as much attention over the years probably as I should have to see kind of what that process looks like if it's somewhat consistent if there's a method that is kind of somewhat standardized or if it's each each piece that we're looking at is going to be its own thing and if that's the case I know this is kind of what you know counsel throughout their couple weeks ago like what are we going to do with this thing or how are we gonna handle it but since they decided to move forward what is the the perceived process to roll this out to development this one is a little different than any that we vote that we've done the thing is is that as Kurt mentioned we need to determine land use that then provides direction for zoning to make to make this a desirable project

[140:01] for it to find a partner we need to have some certainty and that's why we're doing this process to really understand all those impacts in a wider vision and to understand the infrastructure so this is the first step and depending on the goals and the land use you and the desired end users you would then determine whether this is for example if it's a county or city office building that's going to be built and they're going to develop that directly and there's a transfer of ownership before the county or if it's us then we go through the standard approval processes for our development or we sometimes will define the land uses and potentially the minimum requirements and then put the land out for bid and to how much we can get for it and then we implement that sale with the requirements on it say for a certain number of affordable units and

[141:00] square footage of commercial space x percent of which has to be affordable so or we could not put any restrictions on it and just say here's the what we want to have happen here private sector tell us what you know how much is it worth to you and then the private sector develops it as under the land use that's there so there's a variety of paths to the actual development of the site once the area plan defines sort of the use pattern the zoning gets implemented and we complete all these other plans so one last one and this would I suppose I turned to look at David I suppose this would have to do with that zoning piece when we were considering that zoning is there you know one interest that I have is like some type of live work opportunity in that zone has that been discussed or talked about or within the site itself or within the larger area plan

[142:01] not so much either at this point but I think that could be something that if we hear a lot here more desire to explore that smart you think you know it's it's not a huge site so trying to maximize that value for housing that's been the primary focus and with regards to live work there is a my subcommittee on use table review that is looking at all the existing zones to see where there might be a little more flexibility and live work so you know of when we get to the point where the area plans complete and we start picking zones some of those may have been affected somewhat from that or like you said it could need we could need additional zones or zone criteria defined in the land he's covered I want

[143:01] to touch base on something you said earlier is it safe to say that under any of these land use scenarios and then the resulting zoning and then the resulting buildings under any of them manemma would be less I'll use the word impactful on the neighborhood than a fully functioning hospital is that safe to say I'm going with common sense here and I'm gonna say yes are you talking about traffic impacts just everything I mean a fully functioning hospital has helicopters landing 24 hours a day hundreds of people coming and going hundreds of staff hundreds of staff certainly ambulances sirens certainly from a traffic impact and and from what I understand from you know from the from the traffic engineers is that it's not so much in the same same peak times sure certainly for housing we would have different types of uses with a civic with a city service hub

[144:00] so certainly staff members and customers coming in a somewhat similar way as a health facility but very different impacts I think but certainly fewer about traffic I'm just common sense is telling me that a fully functioning hospital with all that goes on there is more disruptive or impactful or whatever noise sounds sirens helicopters know that I've seen them land there many times that's worse than any of these scenarios where they're largely housing and may be of some business and civic is that that's my question we did the traffic impact I think some of the others are more subjective okay thanks I just wanted to throw in one more thing for your consideration the hub in Longmont really does work great and the county

[145:03] provides a lot of social services and I heard some talk at the City Council meeting by some of the members who said maybe we don't need as many city services congregated right there and in my mind I would never have occasion to need to go to several city services together planning as a planning you know but the county really does need because they provide a lot of social services and have a lot more clients so that's just something for your consideration that it may be it's possible that may be more appropriate for a hub for the county and the city can go we can disperse that's just a thought alright I'm gonna say one last thing anyone else want to contribute before we're done cool Jack after you okay one thing that's gonna be helpful in my decision-making is tightening up the

[146:00] range of Units within the choices just because 170 to 250 is a 50% increase so having a range of you know 50% variance I think is a little bit questionable because you really don't know once that's approved what its gonna end up being so that would be super helpful for me to just have a little more specificity I think one thing since we're kind of touching on this neighborhood character piece that I think is critical and kind of to Terry's comment about the the the hospital as it was before I mean I liked hearing the helicopters coming when my boys were little because it was a really exciting thing and the boys are like good it's a helicopter you know I don't know that like it's so much now but I think along

[147:00] the lines of that and the BBC P that we were talking about I think it's important to note that the BBC P talks about great neighborhoods as well as neighborhood character as an aspect of that and there are many aspects of what make great neighborhoods and I just want to say that my focus is more than just the built form it's all the things that make up a great neighborhood and and I just want to keep focus on that when I talk about neighborhood character there was one other point which I know lost I can probably bet it yeah I'll let that one go we've got two hours next next time two hours anyone else home good I think that's it for now thank you thank you

[148:07] all right we're gonna move on to matters from the board committee and project leads on reports and the first thing we're gonna do is make a decision on the report on the Mae affordable housing experience listening session which I provided multiple times I'm hoping everyone read it and we can sort of go straight into a vote for that yes I move we accept the report second Terry seconds discussion good job all right

[149:05] the next one is gonna be the experience listening session ideas for follow-up so Judy and I just came up with a few ideas that staff could maybe potentially work on those were also included in the packet yeah let's we just want to make a motion and go into discussion that'd be great yeah you want to actually make the motion I make a motion that we accept the discussion of future listen no the affordable housing experience listening session ideas for follow-up millisecond discussion of Judy for discussion I just like to say we just talked about what was possible we're not telling staff they must do it they were just

[150:00] suggestions for follow-up and also other things we were going to do like now that the report has done we'd like to tell all the providers who came to the meeting etc results I think that clarified the question I have yes Joe wanted to clarify the motion the document I believe is called for housing experience listening session next steps I assume that's what your that is what we're referring to sorry for the wanted to confirm any other discussion all right well will do the vote all those in favor unanimous and

[151:02] the final part of this is just a discussion and then a vote about next topic for listening sessions so does anyone want to make that motion so we're discussing the third motion here correct correct schedule is adopting a process for being the next list we don't have to make the motion right away we can we can talk about this a little bit first sure Judy so we as you can see we in April already adopted the procedure for doing this and we've already had it open to suggest topics and if somebody has a topic they want to bring now as Adam mentioned and an email

[152:00] to everyone that's great too but I would really like to if we possibly could pick at least the next topic tonight because August is really very open as far as our plan for the meeting what's on the agenda for the meeting in August and it takes two months to get it ready you know to get it ready for the engagement committee and August would be a perfect time and it's even late enough that the students actually would be back by then if that's the topic that's that's selected and so I would like if we possibly could - so just vote on those three topics unless there's another one somebody wants to add and then just vote I just had us everyone else - you Jack did you want to very first we want to rank the three that we like the best to worst we have the senior student and more money that we have come up with the

[153:00] talk to decide on correct yeah I I have another topic that I just wanted to kind of broach that's come to me which is something that I've been noticing in the work that I do is that in the middle income area and in trying to preserve middle income housing and households one challenge is the engagement with the city process for permitting and making changes to the house and I don't know that it's significantly a code I don't know that it's significantly a code related issue but I think it would be valuable to have a listening session to hear from the community on how the process and some of the code related items that go along with that process have essentially limited their

[154:05] opportunity to stay in their homes and I think that's a significant discussion we should be having here around maintaining the middle and and keeping people in their homes so if we consider these three I'd like that to be one that we could because I think it's something that's right on our plate it's really more an aspect of culture and the interpretation of some of these code items and how they are being rolled out with a mind to the fact that not everybody is hiring an architect at $100,000 to design a home Adam am I correct in hearing you jack when you say you want to hear from people who are trying to get through the permitting process to adjust their home to better fit their needs yeah I'm wanting to hear from people who

[155:02] are looking to do very modest you know increases and changes so it is just what's going on and if there are pieces of this process and the process itself that are really limiting them and I talked to people who actually have moved now to Louisville or they've moved to long-on because literally it's a matter of 10 to 20 thousand dollars that I think we could eliminate from the cost that people are engaged potentially just to clarify Jeff do you think that's something that we could get enough information and clarity on the permitting process for changes I'd have to tackle my colleagues and playing development services I mean we would you know what we're told people's concerns are where we can guess at those based on questions we can't I suspect the people who be most knowledgeable about those would be

[156:03] architects and contractors because they do it with multiple people whereas each individual might have one or two experiences and there are in their lifetime in the in the house and them how and that would be very focused on their own individual experience so if you were looking for generalities you might want to prioritize outreach to people who do it with many people like that's my initial reaction I mean I don't know what kind of materials we could provide as background but for a listening session I'm not sure how much you would actually want or need yeah I think I think my intent actually you're kind of hitting on my intent is that there are professionals I also think that it's it's really helpful to hear the individual stories because a lot of times homeowners are pushing trying to push things through themselves and and so I

[157:00] think similar to what we did on the Affordable experience to bring kind of all those stakeholders so to speak a group into the room here people's experiences here how it's been impact and them I think it would it's an interesting place for me to explore so I have a thought on two points one how about we make a motion to add that to the list and the second is how about we vote then make another motion to try and vote on just one of them for August and after the August meeting and we review it then we can see which of the others to check next is one of them might rise more to the surface would that work if I may just point out what you agreed to as your process not that you have to necessarily fall it was that you would following a brief discussion you would vote for the two favorite topics and then and then the agenda committee would schedule those

[158:01] for the year if you're only going to do one it would be the topic that received the most votes so if you want to follow that procedure that's what your prior agreement was so how do we if we want to modify that in light of that was a couple months ago or whatever can we just do that you certainly can it's completely up to you how do we do that okay I make a motion that we adopt that we adopt jacque's idea and add it to the list that's the first motion tarry seconds I second it would probably be worth spelling out what jacque's idea is for the record permitting process permitting process Jacque why don't you say it yeah we could call it the impacts of permitting process on middle-income affordability Apple wonderful Corey you got that there you go is there a second

[159:01] Terry seconds discussion my only concern is outreach because I think it's gonna be easy to probably through the development and architecture communities figure that part out but if we're looking for individual cases that are like currently pending that is a concern of mine to hear from people who are impacted I agree I think one way that we could look at that outreach is we can look at permit dockets that have been approved probably maybe more let's say excessively and comfortable for people who were in the process may not necessarily want to engage with that when they're in the process and so but we could look at permit dockets for instance and we could do a pretty quick

[160:00] and easy mailing list to addresses I think we won't have too difficult a time reaching a fairly broad audience there would be I think a way to pull that off through the dockets I wonder if there's a quick way or an easy way to gauge interest in the community and in this as I mean I don't recall seeing any emails to you for example about it it's not that it's not an issue at all but just the thought that occurred to me if there was a way to kind of road test it or float the concept and see what the interest is I know one of your goals has been to try and engage the community more broadly and more productively in conversations about housing issues and this seems like a topic that could be one of those to me yeah for the purposes right now we're just talking about if we should add it to the list if we select

[161:01] it for August right on the process I don't see any harm in personally adding it to the list and then we can discuss whatever the four we like the best my opinion that's a question for sure so shocked my question is when you say we can look at permit docket or whatever is you were talking about that's like sort of out of my area of understanding so when you say we probably means you and how enthusiastic are you about that well I would be happy if engagement committee were to add this to our list then I would consult okay okay thanks any other discussion all right let's take it to a vote all those in favor of adding passes for zero now we get to talk about what we want to actually do so so just to create

[162:02] the list we got permits for IC money we've got senior and we've got student right am i correct mm-hmm all right can I ask two clarifying questions for is funding more with a qualifier of isay that seems to limit it to a smaller subset than just the funding as it was put out originally and the second clarifier was I thought the seniors was specifically around accessibility okay that's my understanding at the moment I don't know what I see means it's beyond just inclusionary zoning for sure it's any new or interesting ideas about how to fund affordable housing sure not

[163:01] necessarily tied to the inclusionary zoning okay but a broader and as far as seniors of accessibility that was kind of both so not only for seniors but for people who are handicapped yeah I'm not sure Judy I think this was think it would be best if you defined what you hope that topic is and see if there's an accessibility together since they often face similar challenges it made sense to sort of try to do outreach to both community and do it at once we figured that would be best okay and it sounds to me like that's more about creating units that are more accessible to whoever needs that knowing that seniors are a big part of that rather than a lot of the other issues that either seniors would have or people who would want accessibility physical infrastructure of housing okay

[164:01] yes should we proceed just by going down and seeing which each person likes best and why it's follow me I actually like the who's got the money one or show me the money because I think we can get an interesting and diverse group of people I think we can use it to invite people who are usually on opposite sides of issues to talk about something everyone's interested in is how do we pay for it and without being able to pay for it all the other things we want to do don't have as much of a chance and I think that's an area where maybe we can get some really creative input from the community that would be valuable I think there's gonna be a lot of overlap with that one but I'm not gonna talk too much with her with our most recent one so I'm actually really interested in seniors

[165:00] and accessibility for the moment and I'm just not interested in students because I think it's even though they might be back it's still way too early so I would wait later for that one so my top one is seniors and accessibility agree on that I'm the student Peace timing-wise I think my two priorities here are of course my own suggestion but also the funding piece I'm just the broader picture of what I think having a broader impact on affordable housing across the board I would be interested in the funding discussion process by process of elimination I agree that the inclusionary zoning is a little bit of an overlap well I don't know that it's an overlap because I think the last listening session we heard was about what it's like to be living in an affordable housing and what

[166:02] that's all about and the issues was this is how we pay for it and I think me personally one of the main reasons I joined this board was to talk about how we pay for affordable housing and and finding different ways to do it and more creative ways and all that so I like that but I also personally have gone through this permitting process that Jeff brought up many many times and it would be great to hear from some other people there so I think those are my two top ones ok so just to recap we have money might not be money raising and secondarily would be seniors mine is seniors and money raising right now money raising and permits raising is sort of what we're leaning towards I make a motion ok yeah I saw I make a

[167:02] motion that we decide that our next I make motion that our next listening session be in August and be about raising money for affordable housing is that clear enough a little second question discussion amazing yep discussion would we bring in who would we bring I mean I'm thinking I don't on the fly of who we would bring in do we bring in the officials and the boulder housing partners and and all the high tech groups or we ask them to come in any I should say you know I'm saying Jeff like we don't bring in local banks or you know like who do we talk to about that or is it a broader discussion about the way we've been paying for affordable housing and the most recent term is is no cash

[168:00] in lieu and and linkage for you right those are the big and then the light AK dollars those are the three biggest sources aren't they I don't think linkage fees reason to want to be one of the three biggest yet I would say probably lytec first cash in lieu second consistently probably chap which is primarily property tax revenue would probably be third biggest Kurt you you know I mean things have changed since I was really new all the details and then you have a variety of other sources so we would bring in people within those three areas that would educate us or we would hear more about that that's a question not a statement so what just so you know what Adam and I

[169:02] did on the engagement committee for the last listening session might be what we do with this we would meet probably within a week after today and we would talk about it and it would be a plan that wouldn't involve Jeff and we talked about who were the people who might give a brief very brief presentation and how we can really appeal to the public for their general ideas but also appeal to some people who have some expertise in that and and then we would send you information before the July meeting so you could give your input to us and then we'd go okay we're we're ready to go and then we would enact it in July for August yeah my vision here is obviously we bring in them ones who have already done a lot of affordable housing money raising and see how maybe we can take it to the next level and then everybody else who has even wild ideas and just

[170:02] open it up to all public and even those who you know just know a lot about what else is going on around the country around the world with affordable housing and how we might get creative solutions I think that to achieve our 15 percent by 2035 goal looking at additional revenue from taxation is certainly something that needs to be discussed so be really an interesting challenge to figure out how to get voices at the table I find the people when they do focus on it you get more enthusiasm than when you just kind of like have a first reaction so I think that could be pretty healthy discussion so I don't know who you bring in anyone else if I may just a few things for consideration as you're scoping out the agenda for this the one thing that

[171:03] occurs to me is the balance between learning about what's out there whether we're using it or whether others are using it versus generating new ideas there is a plethora of ideas that's pretty thoroughly vetted there is also a current working group working it through the your Housing Partnership and a particular idea that would be probably worth getting some information on as well so this is something that could be a detail you want for us to be able to support that and that something we should talk about because there are probably a hundred different funding sources out there that are in active use around the country and we probably are close to 10 here and if people really want to understand that that's a

[172:00] different kind of a session than trying to generate ideas outside of that or look at some of the ones that are used elsewhere and say why aren't we doing that here and it just strikes me as something we'd want to get some clarity on to really make the time worthwhile and be attractive to the public mm-hmm you know a seminar and howlite Tech's work is probably not that attractive right and depending on what you want maybe it's maybe it's two-stage even with a workshop portion about the city's funding sources and the most promising ones and then a secondary one that's you know that's about meeting with people if you have an hour and a half in a listening session which i think is about how long the last one when they have to figure out how to ration that time and honestly I think there's just not a lot of public knowledge about what is going on and then what could potentially go on and what couldn't go on all the ideas

[173:03] out there so even if we just had that as a document or a presentation not even necessarily having it here but being able to distribute that to provide clarity for everyone and then we're all on a level playing field before we have the public participation part I know that involves some staff time but I think it's it's pretty valuable yeah any other input before we vote okay all those in favor actually can you read the motion back one more time just for clarity nog motion that the next listening session take place at the August 28th meeting and focus on the topic of affordable housing you second did and now we're in financing for affordable housing on financing for affordable housing thank you all those in favor unanimous

[174:09] does anyone need a quick break or do you want to push through all right little power through there's no unfinished business we'll move on to new business and we have a motion so I sent out that paper that's in the packet I feel that one of the most important things we do as the housing advisory board is give input to council in our annual letter and especially at the time when there's been a new election because it seems that council sets its work plan for two years at a time and I presume they're going to do that again and so this is when we really

[175:02] can get input of our ideas that they can take or not take as they choose but one of the things I really miss is that we never really talked about how we each feel about housing issues all the different issues in housing and so I'm just requesting that we start having a discussion of 15 to 30 minutes at each meeting from now until the letter is complete so we can start getting a sense we don't we won't vote on any of these meetings but so we can just start getting a sense of how we each feel so we can make wise choices for our letter because it's so impactful would you like to make the motion before we do discussion yeah I make the motion that's starting at our next meeting we devote approximately 15 to 30 minutes to

[176:01] discussing the content not the form the content of the annual letter all second discussion I suppose my one concern is that some of our meetings are going to be chock-full for instance the Alpine balsam so I agree in general the sense of trying to start this process about talking about what we're going to recommend or suggest to counsel for for the work plan I I would like to see kind of a flexibility if we can just create a flexibility in this somehow to say that it will be something that based upon the agenda in the time frame we will hit as time is

[177:03] available rather than bake it in I would take a friendly amendment to that or try and change my amendment whichever is the right way to do that where it slept up to the agenda that that we have the intention of discussing housing issues that will go into the into our annual letter and that the agenda committee keeping in mind that we want to devote some time to each meeting you know so if one meeting we can't do it because it's to chuck full the next meeting will be more time you know so I don't know the right way to say that but we leave it up to the agenda committee I'm fine with that idea 15 minutes we're gonna get anything done you know every meeting in 15 minutes or we're just gonna kind of go in circles maybe pick a longer period of time in one meeting you know we have it in there and that's what we focus on rather than piecemeal it okay so how

[178:00] about if I modify my motion can I modify my own emotion my own motion you certainly can amend your motion the I think technically the whoever second it has to approve your amendment and you can always withdraw your motion make a new one Jack had something right Jack I was just gonna think that maybe we shift to shift this over to the agenda committee as you just suggested that the agenda committee will when we put out our kind of paying out to everybody saying hey if you have anything for the agenda if members have something specific to talk about in regards to that then we'll put it into the end of the agenda does that work so you know

[179:05] but it was like writing the letter last time it went forever and we were just talking about structure not content so I'm saying the content is the issue this time and not just when somebody wants to talk about it I'm happy to leave it to the agenda committee but not that if somebody has something to discuss that we actually start talking I mean I could fill up you know I want to talk about tiny houses you know are we interested in suggesting that I want it I mean I could come up with five things sitting here right now so there's no lack of issues to discuss I think we need to start discussing them because otherwise it's going to be November and we're gonna be at some meeting at one o'clock at night too tired to think straight you know so if you want to make that motion so what I'm hearing here is essentially what you can do is go through the

[180:00] regular agenda setting process just you know suggest it as an item whenever you want and we'll bring it to the committee and we'll have input from the board as the process is set out and if we think that will fit and we'll put it on if we don't think that it will fit then we'll keep it off and you can at any time as always make a motion that we discuss it so can I make that motion now that we'd start discussing housing issues at each meeting when the agenda committee permits when it works for the agenda so sort of a standstill standing here but then you could go we can't do it this one because it'll take because you guys know how busy it'll be okay yeah I think you can make that much okay can I just say yes I make do I have to repeat it okay I move okay I move

[181:01] that the agenda committee determines an ongoing conversation about content or the annual letter whenever you know as possible does that work we might word it a little bit differently but we get the UI or a second jocke seconds any other discussion just so you know the previous amendment was withdrawn I don't know if you heard that but okay let's call for a vote all right so we will at our discretion at it when possible may I make a suggestion yes I think the discussions about content are more productive and richer

[182:00] when the topic to be discussed is pretty well laid out with sufficient time for people to do whatever thinking and research they want to do before you kick it around so I would assume that people would not just there was just the item the content item they want to talk about or items in timely enough fashion so that people have the opportunity to engage with it a little does that need to be a motion or no I'm just remembering back to last year and just thinking ahead and and I think if an idea comes up in a meeting and that and that's the meeting when you get a chance to discuss it it's it would be from my perspective if not just the agenda committee didn't just put some time on the agenda to talk about topics unspecified but they were actual specific topics

[183:00] you know like tiny homes you know let's talk about whether we want tiny homes to go in there in your letter or not so Jeff is it okay if we add to the minutes right after the motion that it's the consensus of the group that individual had members forward to the chair and vice chair their ideas or content their content topics like the likelihood of us putting it on the agenda with no topic to discuss is zero way that that can be incorporated into the minutes because we just voted on something I don't think it's necessary I think you have a process already adopted for getting things on the agenda I think following that would would and what you've just done I think is to hold the agenda committee prioritize this if someone

[184:00] suggests something they want to talk about for the annual letter prioritize it not above something that might be a council work item but put it up there on the higher on the list great I'm gonna move on to matters from staff and matters from staff I have two comments to staff I just have two items one is a follow-up to the recommendation you made earlier I just made a couple of wording changes and I want to be sure that that's still and because this is more formal I want to make sure I've got it accurate no I and that is have recommend City Council accept the action plan with emphasis on health safety and affordability by prioritizing the actions under infrastructure local enforcement and pad rent stabilization and in reading that I want to make it one more addition which is have recommend City Council accept the manufactured housing strategy action plan yes

[185:01] all right that was item1 item2 is i did had a chance to connect briefly with on the subcommittee planning project which is now really the East Boulder sub community planning around the idea of whether there's a need for a project liaison and at this time there is not there is not a Joint Board working group and they don't there may be a place for that down the road so it is a project that will come back to you as a board as a whole but there won't be a need first designated representatives as we had for Alpine balsam so I wanted to update you on that and I just had two quick comments any update on new member the city clerk informed us at the last meeting Council deferred appointments till after their break I don't know that

[186:01] it's been scheduled for a specific meeting yet third Thursday and our third Tuesday in July would be the first opportunity for them to make an appointment and then the following one would be August 6th I don't know how to say this correctly but it would really be great if we had another member because situations like this may continue to arise over summer so if staff can urge them individual emails them and you could act as a group or individually okay yeah I just don't like the whole four thing and as well as at work tonight I don't think it's gonna work in other situations if you do want to take collective action you need to do it in a public meeting yep so I don't think we need to take collective action but I would encourage any of you who

[187:02] want an additional member to send an email to Council and finally I noticed that our website is not up to date with current chair and vice-chair responsibilities I just think that's probably something worth doing yep we'll get that done anything else yes this is countess like the calendar Check Into we know we're not I think we're not quite there yet this was matters from enforced death great debrief meeting and calendar check Jeff anything of note before we well I think it would be worth you letting Jean know if you can attend the July 17th Open House on Alpine balsam as you can get a sense of that tonight and will need to be noticed if there are more

[188:01] than two of you who want to be there so I assume she's planning to notice it anyway but it would still be worth it for planning purposes to know if it's you know one to seven six whatever the number it wouldn't be seven I guess but could be six potentially they're participating just so they can as they're thinking if they want to structure discussion tables where people can come and sit down with one or two of you and kick ideas around other than that that's the only calendar thing I can think of I don't there's no potential vacant you know quorum issues that I'm aware of so Mason just informed me she's probably gonna miss next month because of her birthday so no no that's I think that's you're down one she's definitely gonna make it for alpine balsam okay Jeff I forgot I think I

[189:06] already brought this up and you already answered it but I can't quite remember since we're since we've changed the times of our meetings in November and December I believe the days days I don't know if we know if it's going to be here but does Channel eight know that we're not going to be there the days they initially thought we were yes I've informed channel eight and I will inform them again as we approach those months and it's listed on our website too the date changes thank you just a little anything else for debrief Thanks good job first meeting helped great anybody

[190:07] else thank you all this this one great all right I'm gonna make a motion to adjourn second oh and unanimous thank you - Parris Alphonse like that