September 26, 2018 — Housing Advisory Board Regular Meeting

Transcript

[MM:SS] timestamps correspond to the YouTube recording.

[0:14] number 26 call to order and a roll call I know none of us have even got our microphones to us Judy nog Mason Moyer Adam spike and I'm crystal gray I'm the ex officio non-voting member from Planning Board okay agenda review is there anything anybody wants to add or change okay and then approval of minutes all in favor we have to do a mm-hm and I forget that every time all in favor aye

[1:00] and I guess we will open it up for public participation right now do we have anybody signed up okay fantastic we'll move right forward then into home ownership program overview okay so I'm Lesley Pinkham and I'm the asset program manager and I work with the wonderful team in the homeownership program and this is Eadie Birkin she's here with me today and afterwards I'll have her introduce herself and and we'll be taking questions at the end I wanted to explain what we did we just put so we we sent a lot of material ahead of time and so what we decided to do with this short yeah sorry is just tell this story of one family who goes through the program so so this is this is not a real family it is a real family statistics but it

[2:01] the name and the picture have been changed obviously for protection so we help people like the Sharma family 54,000 annual income from two nursing assistant jobs and Social Security three thousand six hundred dollars in savings and in need of stable housing that they can afford into the future this is a family of two parents two kids and a 64 year old grandparent social security we don't know where the social security comes from it could be the grandparent or one of the children in 2017 the Sharma's closed on one of the cities permanently affordable homes three bedrooms two baths 1,200 square feet condo one hundred and eighty four thousand dollar sales price one thousand five hundred and seventy dollars will be the monthly payment which is thirty five percent of their income the covenant limits who can buy the home and how the home can be used and limits the resale

[3:01] price city staff qualified the family and insured all the requirements of the program were followed during the sale the fixed-rate loan stabilized housing costs for the family they now have a home of their own the stabilizing effects of homeownership they're granted and I'm jumping to the thing I'm sorry to tell me to the next stable monthly payment so the Sharma's had money saved but needed more to cover the three percent down payment required by the bank a six thousand six hundred solution grant was provided to cover the gap in money that they had and that they needed to close grant is not repaid at the resale value the home price is reduced by the grant amount this makes the home more affordable for the next buyer grant funds come from cash in lieu payments via the affordable housing fund this

[4:01] okay sorry the future of the ship for the Sharma's so they the room for the they have room for the family that they needed for their family they have shorter commutes for jobs in bolder stabilized housing costs no more rent increases a community where they can grow roots and homeownership as an investment the thirty seven thousand two hundred dollars estimated proceeds are based on the appreciation number over the the last five years so if they were gonna sell there after five years of owning it that would be the estimated proceeds additional programs that are under the homeownership program the housing legacy program which is a fairly new program in the last two years it is residents designate their homes to become part of the permanently affordable program after they die we have two homes so far who have two

[5:00] people who have donated their homes to this program home repair help with health and safety repairs for low-income owners low-interest loan provided to pay costs and so I'm sorry okay so I have some so permanently affordable and solutions grant are the most popular programs so I do want to tell you about the shared appreciation for the market rate homes in Boulder that has been less utilized in recent years likely because the program cannot provide enough funds to make it helpful for a market rate home it's fifty percent up to fifty thousand loan maximum 1500 sound like I say fifty fifteen percent up to fifty and this is the team so eighty irken and

[6:02] her counterpart Eric Swanson are a program outreach they qualify applicants they manage sales Cory who you all know very well she's your board secretary she is our program information distribution center and Julie Raymond does post purchase occupancy compliance and I'm the program manager yeah I have an important question Cory how many jobs do you have [Laughter] [Music] so I'm available for questions I'm Edie Arkin I'm homeownership program coordinator and like Leslie said I do a lot of things I help folks qualify for the program buy homes and then I hope help current owners get capital improvement credits added to their home refinance their homes and when they're ready to sell I help them sell through the program and then also administer those a couple of those other programs after our question period I'll introduce our two two of our homeownership

[7:02] committee members are here to speak about their experience on that committee and we're here for questions so I'll open it up for questions thank you yes sir yeah sure thanks thank you for presenting this and I thought the information was really helpful that you sent to us as well as now and I think that when we're going to meetings with Jeff I think we go by and see some of you working busily in your office but I have two questions and one of the first one has a couple parts even the program is it to low income only or is it low and middle income only so the homeownership program is available to those at low moderate and middle incomes so we have roughly roughly 620 homes at the low to moderate range at varying ranges and then we have roughly a hundred homes at the middle income range so anything just above that low to moderate up to a middle middle income

[8:02] maximum at various ranges for me to ask all my questions yesterday okay so my Part B of this question is for the middle-income housing to use the criteria of 80 to 120 percent or do you use criteria of 80 250 percent so it's slightly different so our low to moderate limit is at what we call HUD plus 10% so it's the Housing and Urban Development low income plus 10 percent so that's varies from year to year this year it's about it's under 80 percent at 70 something present I can get back to you on the exact number so it goes from there up until a hundred sorry it's HUD plus fifty percent so it's not equivalent to the ami percentages so I'm sorry I didn't quite get that what does that mean so

[9:01] for middle-income housing people what would be what would it be about so it depends on the household size so for a household of three the middle income limit this year so they change year to year based on how the HUD numbers change is roughly a hundred and thirteen thousand for a household of three and it varies by household size so it can be I'd have to get back to you on the exact but it varies okay and I'm just going to know is that decision internal from the city or is that because it's easier with HUD guidelines and all that so part of our program guidelines are because we are up participating jurisdiction for for HUD and for CDBG the Community Development Block Grant funds and all of our programs are designed around those guidelines for one for a consistency of one program guidelines thank you

[10:01] and then my other question is sort of an obscure when I guess but as I was reading it I think you had like the covenants in there that people agree to and all that and I'm just wondering on your feedback have there been any covenants that have been problematic either for you or that you've noticed for the owners so we're always developing the covenant and it evolved over time and we we find that it's an evolution and it's a balance between maintaining the affordability and having the homes be used for what their purpose is and balancing the rights of homeowners to use home use the homes and gain equity in their home so it's a balance so you look you're looking at it and cons so and with that saying who when a owner signs their covenant that's their covenant unless a emergency matter was passed by the city manager that can't be

[11:00] changed so going forward new owners who purchase could could have an updated covenant but that's the legal document they sign when they purchase so it can't be retroactive necessarily great thank you very much mm-hmm do you have someone had Steve all right to give an example of how it's evolved some of the earliest covenants did not require fair marketing practices where the sellers could select the buyers and that was quickly became an issue of concern and was changed in the first probably two or three years that the covenant was being used other things have been you know how we would handle capital improvements you know the troubles that have come up over time we try and correct with the evolution of the terms and sometimes they're just disagreements they have to be resolved whether whether something is

[12:01] damaged or whether it's just normal wear and tear all right just a few how long is the average waiting list any given year it's hard to say cuz we don't have a waiting list specifically every household is going to have different needs in a home so not every household is going for every specific home we do certify folks in in the program and there is a preference given for those that are in the program for over a year so we are seeing a general wait times of between sometimes as early as three and four months and up to a year and a half so like generally nine months to a year is the typical wait time but it can be longer if someone has very specific needs in a home and that home doesn't come up makes a lot of sense

[13:01] what is the general makeup of the average people you serve I guess is the best way to put it so do you get like a lot of single people or is it mostly families or I don't know that offhand we did provide a a she in the packet that had some demographics there and we have the dashboard on our website where you can kind of glean that information I mean you can poke around with the numbers there I think we have like one point two to three people separate the person because I know as a generally as a single person it's much harder to buy a home because you usually don't have that dual income so I was wondering sort of the representation there especially

[14:00] that's all I was looking for so they're allowed to to apply for a home up to one bedroom more than that have one number one bedroom more than people in a bedroom home a single person who qualified would be able to awesome yeah that was river my only two sort of glaring questions do you anything I do have a couple of questions I thought your packet was great thank you and just full disclosure some friends and I founded the Affordable Housing Alliance high years ago we had we were lucky enough to buy houses in Boulder when we were relatively young and we noticed that the city didn't have a homeownership program this was back in like 1992 and we ended up partnering with the city on the piece of property that the housing authority owned I guess that's housing partners now on poplar so

[15:02] we call it the poplar community and and I'm glad to see some of the programs that you started then not because of that but you have a homeownership training program that I know people went through and realized that they could apply for a market rate condo maybe not a single-family house but do you how do you advertise that program I know I noticed in the notes here you still have it going and go ahead the poplar home specifically no just your homeownership training for people that are looking to buy get into affordable housing with the homeownership project sure so we we have two homeownership trainings that we require we have a homeownership program orientation that we offer once a month and we have a video that's available

[16:00] online at any time and we offer special set ups of those that orientation if someone has needs other than the English version that's online and then we partner with Boulder County and chafa to to provide another class which is the so chafa is the Colorado Housing and Finance Authority and they certify folks to teach this home buyer education class so it's roughly seven or eight hour class and the county teaches it and many other organizations around the state so if someone can take that class from any of those providers and on what there's an online option for that as well and it is a really great class for anybody yeah well I was just saying we should go to the class it's free that

[17:02] would be great yeah so that class you can find links to that class on our website if you go to Boulder Colorado gov slash homeownership and then click on the required classes page and then there's descriptions and links to those classes on that page and it's open to everybody anybody just to find another follow up question on the home ownership is how often do houses come on the market you said you have about 720 or so so it varies we have some new homes that come into the program and then those are advertised in advance but then the rest come available when a current owner decides to sell so it's really hard to say I don't know how many homes will come up in the next month over the past three years that I've been with the program we tend to have a few a month so

[18:04] and then I'm I'm aware that habitat is really one a kind of the major homeownership builder at least that's my impression correct me if I'm if I'm wrong but did their houses then when they're sold come on the market through this marketing program yes so Habitat for Humanity we partner with them as well there they select the first owner of the homes they build and that owner and buyer helps build the home then one of our covenants gets four gets signed and recorded on the property so then it still has the same permanent affordability restrictions so once that first owner decides to sell then it gets sold through our program and we administer it those sales great and then just one more so your homeownership committee I read about it and when is

[19:03] that announced and how is it announced this it announced with the rest of the board recruitment for the city gosh I don't know you know it's a it's not it's it's a committee and members are appointed by the deputy director well the director of Housing and Human Services and then how could I know you have an at-large position and other positions that have specific requirements but how do you let the public know that so the committee that they could apply for the comitia so we did a lot of different a lot of it was word of mouth through organizations and guess getting the word out there we had everyone who had shown it showed interest in it we did a you know written questions and an interview process and then we made recommendations my to the director that answer your

[20:03] question and we'll send an email to our interest list that and everyone hid that someone has signed up for great great oh you mean anybody who mentions that they might be interested in the committee we always definitely hold on to that well thank you untack them on the home legacy piece of it I watched I don't even know where I saw the video on that I think might have been something from channel 8 when I yeah when I got the video on that so can an owner opt to also I think the first one she had offered it and it had gone to a family or so or it hasn't or something to that effect but I'm curious does it is it also recognize that potentially selling it and using the

[21:00] money to put into building more units as possible or is it held in trust the way it is anything's possible it's a conversation it's figured out by what their desires are so the person who came up with the idea originally was the first donation and her her vision was to have a family in that home and then the second was exactly the same all different options can be looked at and tried to figure out because it would be wonderful if someone in Boulder would like to give us property that they wouldn't mind us redeveloping and getting more than one home right but it also would be really nice to have families and in all the areas you know in Boulder that there aren't permanently affordable homes mm-hmm and with the home repair were you saying that that it's underfunded or that you're struggling with fun zone no it wasn't the home repairs and I'm sorry I did get a little I had you know too many notes so so the home repair program that's

[22:01] administered by the county and the it was the share depreciation loans that I was talking about when I said that they're for market rate so that program is there are funds available for it but it's underutilized so the that the shared appreciation loan program is loans on market rate homes within the city limits of Boulder so it's a loan up to fifteen percent of the homes purchase price maximum of fifty thousand dollars so fifty thousand dollars towards a market right home may not be enough to cover the gap to make it affordable for someone under to meet the income limits for that program so it's still utilized but under utilized yeah does that make sense we so the funds are available for the repair portion of it okay so I want to go back to the repair Porsche for a second and I so you were commenting on something different but could you expand and explain the repair program while I

[23:00] flip through back to the paragraph that it was on yep go ahead okay the rehab repair program is a low-interest loan program for those that income qualify in the city of Boulder so it could be for site-built home or mobile home in the city of Boulder so I'm going to offer something as maybe something that could be piloted with this so I just entered an accelerator program for a new startup business that I'm doing and to be a part of this program we were asked if we would 1% pledge back to the group so if our if we get chosen we'd 1% pledge back and I'm curious about stuff like this because I know I'm spacing on what it is that the old president the older president that always goes out and builds the houses come on you know where everybody works

[24:03] together and build I know well I told you I had a massage I'm like on my game right now so I'm curious if if you get into these affordable programs if there's a 1% pledge back so how can we help our community to become community members so yes I'm participating in this program and I believe in it so much that I'm willing to prove 1% pledge back and maybe that's me pledging back in office work maybe that's me pledging back in helping somebody who has repairs they need on their house what an awesome way to create community at the same time that you're also there's an appreciation value for the project that you're getting so just a thought great thought that's how the share depreciation loan program is set up so the 15 percent up to 15,000 on a market rate home when that's due back it's the loan amount plus a shared portion of the earned appreciation as what are you saying

[25:01] 15,000 or 50,000 15 percent up to 50,000 and then I'm curious about the actual process so if I came in there and I went to these two classes and then I fill out the paperwork is this a lot like Social Work where your case loaded somewhere and somebody's watching your you go through this process or are you just this is all self-managed and you're then plugged into a porthole and you watch four houses or your assistance in that a little of both so homeownership program coordinators so that's my role in my colleague Eric Swanson we help you through the application process and once you're certified certifications are good for six months during that time period you look for homes that in of interest to you apply for them if you qualify and and then go from there and then recertify every six months and what if you identify somebody who doesn't

[26:02] qualify for a home but might fit another program the city offers how do you network do you network or do you just so we when we when we are made aware we try to refer as much as we can to those experts and go from there do you know what the foreclosure percentages on these off the top of my head I don't know but it's very well okay go ahead roughly one a year so and they just whack into your pool then and with a bit of a process yeah I had one more quick question under asset limits that include things like retirement accounts what's listed under assets so assets would be funds that you have in checking savings any money market accounts stock accounts we do include

[27:00] some retirement accounts but we exempt them depending on your age so it does include it and then we take some out interests that make sense I have another thing I wanted to add we recently asked the public for some input about housing issues and one of the responses from somebody and I can't remember is email or on be heard Baldr or if they they spoke but one of the things they said is they wish that there was more publicity about all the good things that the city does that's basically what it boiled down to so I just wanted to pass that along to you because I don't know if you're getting way more people than you need or if there's you know it sounds like such a great program I wish that that you know I don't know if more people needed to know about it that they know the majority of folks applying to our program hear about us from friends or family so we do to kind of take down how did you hear about us yeah and I

[28:02] think that's really cool but we could definitely get the word out more yeah and I wasn't telling you what to do anything I was just providing you with feedback I feel that public told us thanks maybe that would be suggesting on the website redesigned for the city as well as like a celebratory page of yeah this person just got a home or we do we do promote on social media as well on occasion so Facebook and yes I've seen um the other one they did a couple art stores in the city newsletter yeah goes out quarterly we went to what's up Boulder each day I mean we do try to get the word out at every Boulder County home buyer education class we talk about the affordable programs nice yeah y'all hear some again when you go to the class right anybody else thank you so much for your time thank you

[29:00] so let me introduce our home ownership committee members who have come to talk about the home ownership committee so just as a refresher we have an advisory committee that we seek advice from on certain aspects of the home ownership programs when someone doesn't quite fit in the boxes and needs if there's a gray area they the committee here is exception requests to the rules and then advises back to the director who has final decision on those matters here with us tonight we have we have Alicia did I pronounce it and and Marcia Zipkin and Alicia is our lender representative on the committee and Marcia is our committee community member at large so Alicia hi my name is Alicia Alban Fels

[30:09] I've been a you can't hear mm-hmm is it green hi I'm Alicia no he's okay the green lights on are you guys hearing it back there because I'm not hearing it up here yeah that way you have you just hold it [Laughter] and you get to work the room I had to hold mine hi my name is Alicia Alpen fells I've been a mortgage advisor for 17 years and I've been on the homeownership committee for nine months I was appointed in January so I'm nine months into a three-year term and my role it's still I'm so you know figuring out exactly what my role is for the committee but at this point what I've been doing is just answering questions to ensure that the homebuyers aren't

[31:01] getting into predatory loans so I've been answering questions about what is a realistic interest rate what is a HELOC what should he like look like we've been talking about mortgage insurance in different ways to structure mortgage insurance I'm not sure if that role will change over the next couple years but at this point that's what I've been doing it's very interesting to me I had wanted to get involved with the program for a long time and actually I think I was part of the home repair program in the early 90s I'd bought my first house and the first nine months I had owned my house every appliance had broken every single one and I had absolutely no money to repair my furnace so ice came and got money to replace the furnace and then it was what they would have called a silent second and then when I sold the house whenever there's like 1993 they paid it I would pay it back the loan to the city so I think I've always been kind of had a fondness for the program just because it really helped me out of a bind a long time ago and and I'm enjoying it it's nice to be

[32:01] able to kind of get more involved see how the program works because on the lending side I know about the program I've had clients use the program but I never quite understood how some of the rules were determined and so to be able to be on the committee and kind of have that input and kind of help them decide some of the some of the decisions it's been really cool so that brings up something kind of interesting and I was thinking about this under the compliance the compliance piece of it but I'm curious if if in this program there is a way because I personally know a couple of people that are in the affordable that bought and now we're doing really well and I'm wondering if there's not because I was like well it's only by complaint it's only this but what if what if there's a way to incentivize people that are in these permanently affordable houses like you sold and then probably moved up to a market rate or are you in a market right now or some oh yes yeah and I've had a couple friends that have done that as well so I'm

[33:00] curious if there's not a way we're like maybe once a year under the marketing program or something you send out a card to everybody just saying are you at a point where reconsidering for a market home or to look at you know something that incentivizes or promotes you know is it time to expand and move on and give property back for the next family that could help out just curious if that if there's a way to in a positive way say is this something that we could look at well I think the program doesn't allow for it to be an investment property so when I'm talking to my clients and we're talking about ways to structure loans we look at what's the cheapest monthly payment versus what's a long-term investment because if somebody was buying a property like I have you know first-time homebuyers that are buying properties and we might look at how to how to handle the mortgage insurance do you pay monthly mortgage insurance or you do you build it into the rate and what that discussion would be is if you pay monthly mortgage insurance maybe in 10 years that

[34:02] mortgage insurance falls off and if you keep the property as an investment property at the end of the day you have a lower monthly payment but that wouldn't be the goal for someone in this program because you can't make it an investment property so I think that in and of itself clean motors to people move people up but the but in this increasing market it will be hard to step out of this program and go into market unless we offer in an inventory like tiny houses and land Lots that you could purchase into that we're more interesting for some other people sure just something I'm putting out there thank you do you guys have questions I just have a comment I think programs like this committees like this are so valuable and I want to say thank you to both of you because the programs are fabulous from a general a speck but to make sure that people don't fall through the cracks and get good individual advice is just crucial

[35:02] to me so I really appreciate what you're doing absolutely it's been my pleasure thank you and here we have marshes it hello can you guys hear me yes so my name is Marsha Zipkin and I actually work for Boulder County and I serve as et said as the community member at large and my role with Boulder County actually is the instructor for the home ownership training classes that you are referencing before and then also I teach 11 different financial workshops and these are all workshops that are free and open to the public and before I was primarily an instructor I have been operating with Boulder County as a hud-approved housing counselor and basically what that means is I would meet with folks one-on-one and I did

[36:02] this extensively through the foreclosure crisis and the recession and all of that so I have just basically a lot of experience and a strong strong interest in working with folks and educating around financial well-being and financial stability as that leads into homeownership and you know what I know from doing this for 10 or 11 years is when there are stable housing options within a household or a family they're able to focus on and and build stability and all the other areas of their life so I was honored and pleased and tickled when an opening became available on the homeownership committee so that I could kind of come from the other side and kind of see you know from years of teaching the homeownership training class I've been working with this program people have been using that program I've been educating them about

[37:00] it and but I was always kind of on that side and not really understanding the depth of the inner workings of the program and so what that has done for me being able to be part of this is a coming with a lens where I'm really looking at everything from are the decisions we're making the best for the borrower and the community member for long-term stability or making a decision that's ultimately just going to help them with in their lives and also the community so you know that's kind of where I'm coming into it and it's it's really helps to have that that more roundabout view with how what's going on with the program from the inside and then also me being able to speak to people about it from the other from the other side and through those classes and we have as for the marketing piece that you someone asked the question about before just for reference there are 50 to 70 people that come to that class that I teach every

[38:02] single month and so for an exam also the next class is coming up on October 20th I allow because of space issues 55 people to sign up and I'm already at full capacity for that and then I allow 70 people to sign up in Longmont when I teach there Wow have you told them about the housing advisory board but if you have material that I could share with them I'd love to do that I'd also like to know if possible can you when you send out notices of those meetings could you just put us on the list in case one or more of us can go to one of them it sounds great yeah you know we do so I my program is actually housed within workforce Boulder County and we send an email out monthly with all of the training and education that we do which would include the home ownership the financial and also career related workshops and services and if you provide me with your I can get them from

[39:02] them your contact information I am happy to add you to that list so you can receive that information so I'm curious because something that sits with me are the and I'm curious if you guys do any pre work with any of like through attention homes or bridge house or anything like that just prepping them for what they can no not that they're gonna actually qualify and go for a house but mmm looking long-term yeah so we do try to connect with lots of different community partners and I don't it's funny that you just brought up attention homes cuz I maybe four or five months ago we were trying to meet with them to talk about how we can work together and I think that kind of fell apart over this summer with schedules and things like that I work with a lot of schools in the community Boulder Valley School District and also st. brain Valley School District and I'm gonna be meeting with someone in a couple of weeks from st.

[40:02] brain Valley School District to talk about maybe doing classes for high school students and then also I often work with the parents of students within the school districts so giving them financial education and within all of those workshops we end up talking about home ownership because if someone's renting ultimately most likely they are thinking about wanting to become homeowners and so it can begin within those financial workshops that we start talking about what's needed so that people can you know have that as a future goal yeah so with the committee tying in to you guys then do you refer them to somebody on the committee or how do you guys work together we hold a monthly meeting where we bring exception requests and policy discussions to the monthly meeting where all of the committee members meet and and some stuff and if I can comment additionally

[41:01] on that and I don't know if this is helpful for you but I thought of it while you were talking so what happens is we're presented with a scenario but it's a confidential or anonymous sort of scenario about whether it's an exception to someone who's already living in a home not meeting all the criteria around being eligible to apply for a home and so we're able to kind of talk through the pieces of that and for me it's really helpful to have like Alisha and then the other folks on the committee who all have their own unique lens on the the home ownership scenario so Jeff are they a part of Ponderosa at all or is our is HUD specifically working with them on because I know there was a lot of questions about who could qualify and they were trying to work through what does it look like to potentially own these other homes and or was it just HUD working theory like I know there was a couple of of the Cu attorneys that are there doing tidal cleanups and stuff like that but I'm curious if if they had

[42:02] more of a network that was put in place to help with a lot of that and I didn't know if it was this group so we're doing a home ownership workshop on November 4th with habitat mm-hmm for Ponderosa so that's that's the next thing on on on there just for that they still habitat and our dam art men were working together because it will be very similar as to the you know the other habitat homes where our covenant will be on the homes but habitat will be involved in the first part anybody else does that make sense yes okay I meant to say habitat not HUD I don't know why I said HUD oh okay well then you already knew yeah partially being blond partially any other things thank you so much for your time and energy you really appreciate you coming down thanks Marcia and Alicia and thank you very much thank you it was a great presentation appreciate

[43:00] it any last questions I'm feeling complete okay so we'll go to manage from the board for our Standing Committee reports Public Engagement okay I'm leading off public engagement this evening so first thing we're going to talk a little bit about the session we had where people came with their housing solutions Judy and I are still working on that report recording everyone's interests and you know the solutions that they came up with to the problems they also came up with we've been working with Zack to get some feedback from be heard bolder in a nice well-documented sort of document essentially and once we have that all together we just have a couple more

[44:00] steps you want to take and we'll present it to the board and then hopefully with the board's approval we'll send it on the council just for their information not necessarily for any action Judy anything else just a couple there's one area we could use feedback from if anybody has any ideas and that's besides giving it to Council as just a report we're not making any recommendations and putting it on our website and emailing all the people whose emails we have who did contribute is there any other way that anyone can suggest that we can make sure that we complete that loop that they talked about in the public participation working group the feedback loop the feedback loop yeah so if you have any ideas that's one the other thing is I I just happened to have had a conversation with Bobby AIDS day before

[45:03] yesterday is that what I told you day before yesterday and was mentioning it to him and he said he believes it's his opinion he doesn't speak for whole council but he believes that council is really happy to get reports but I showed him what our sort of temporary report looks like and he said he thought it would really help console if we highlighted besides all the I to show them everything that people submitted as their ideas for solutions and to eliminate duplication and if we wanted to illustrate that more than one person made the suggestion we can just put an asterisk or something but he thought it would also be really helpful if we as a board highlighted what ideas also were going along with our thinking that they would know that so we don't have to decide that tonight since jacque's not here and our new member but I wanted to know if there was any discussion any of those things and I did

[46:00] talk to Judy about your feedback about the process in general so that was covered between the two of us you were the only one jock didn't get back to us about what he thought about the session itself with the public oh yeah he took me a second there I was talking about is we wanted to after we put on this first engagement event to get feedback from the public we wanted to know how the board felt about what if there were any suggestions for improving it in the future so we appreciate your comments yeah any any initial feedback on Judy's thoughts otherwise we'll just keep yeah no I'm it's hard to feedback on something I haven't seen yet so yeah it sounds like you guys are headed in a fantastic direction so go team okay yeah we expect to be done pretty quickly here hopefully

[47:00] by the next whatever your next scheduled meeting will end up being okay second piece from the public engagement committee so we are considering what our next big sort of event or topic for our next event was going to be and Judy and I thought that the occupancy limits would be an interesting community discussion it's not necessarily on our work plan right now or council's work plan right now but it so it seems like a really ripe topic number one people have a lot of interest in it and number two it's a place where we feel the community could build a lot of consensus where there's probably a lot less people who are this far apart than are this far apart so we thought that being sort of a topical focus where we have a few different engagement sessions would be really beneficial especially if counsel would

[48:01] maybe be teeing that up for next year in their retreat so if I understand you right what you're saying is that for every larger public engagement what we're talking about is having it topic driven not necessarily every single one like I think we can choose between a broad thing like bring your solution we just wanted to do a topical one and we felt that this is a pretty good one to work off of yeah it makes me excited because I you know to me it's like that's fantastic I mean because if we it'd be I could see it's structured like organizationally working around those topics so that to me it seems yeah I'm all on board with that and at this point since it's not actually on the council's work plan it wouldn't be as something we would vote on and make our decision that would have to go to Council first in that way it would just be to talk about and we we really spent some time talking about why we thought that would be a good topic but

[49:00] additionally I did mention that and I discuss this with that I'm I did also mention that to Bob Yates and not only was he pretty excited because he loves the idea of experiment of boards experimenting with things he also liked the idea of the goal of building consensus and he had one suggestion and that was that instead of doing just one public engagement we had talked about the idea of letting people sign up ahead of time and then picking two people for eliminating occupancy and two people for keeping the current occupancy randomly he also suggested that we do at least one more and consider doing one where we asked for local expert building consensus arrangement where where we could actually come up with criteria he said all we would need to do is come up with appropriate criteria for who we considered to be expert in that subject

[50:00] and then asked someone on each side of the issue to to give their presentation to rebut each other and then to have a facilitator possibly from the city mediation group mediate trying to build consensus between those two people Jeff also Jeff and Erin told stated that we don't need to have a public hearing before each time we talk about it it'd probably be good to have a public hearing at some point on occupancy but we don't have to have a public hearing before each time we talk about it because we're not voting talk about what occupancy the topic in general so we could talk about it yeah yeah look any issue so just to recap real quick we're looking at multiple sessions different sort of types of session each time one

[51:02] that's just anyone in the public who is interested in the you know an occupancy they come they give their spiel like sort of like a normal public comment period we have one where we come up with our criteria for who a local expert might be send that out and then anyone who qualifies under those guidelines comes we pick a couple on each side and they come and try to build that consensus through a short debate with a moderator and then what was the third Judy was there a third well there's the regular public you know just those other but then there was public with where we ran where we picked people who have submitted ahead of time and do two and two to I mean when is the general public when is where it's just a debate towards consensus with two people and we're not I mean we're not that's just what we're suggesting and putting out we also don't

[52:00] have to make any decisions on that tonight because we've talked this through with Jeff and we're not looking at doing anything before January no we already have a really full work plan so we're just putting this out there for everyone to think about a little bit and then come back to you know we'll start thinking about what the structure might look like hopefully we'll decide on a date that's very early in the year love the idea of number one where we're doing topic driven sessions and maybe naming it public session instead of public comment so that it has a wrap around it a little bit more I'm curious if we could get feedback from a facilitator in advance saying something to the giving us advice or direction on how to format it so saying because for me when I try and walk it through my head and I have opposing v's and how could we create consensus I'd be curious like when I

[53:01] watch building bridges with Brenda or anything like that is that it B maybe there's a way to bring in Cu because of the building bridges thing but it'd be interesting to see if this is a dot formation or if this is a you know if it's to avoid the confrontation piece of video build the consensus without people having to say in my positions better than that position you know in creating the animosity but how do you defuse that and that I'm not a facilitator but it'd be interesting to see if there was something that was out there that they already kind of used that we could lean from I get what you're saying yeah so I can't believe I'm blanking out on her name but the person who's in charge would be her Boulder why am i blanking out on her name you know I mean Jeff Sarah Sarah and so Sarah would be somebody I'd be happy to talk to where you come and we both talk to her about this because stuff before and maybe clay Fong who's with the communication that head of the mediation part might have some ideas for us if you like we can

[54:01] what do you think about that Jeff I think it's a great idea to connect with the Community Engagement Team whether it's Sarah or Ryan to help structure how this might work and get their advice on timing structure facilitation because that's something that we're working hard to develop do you think clay would be a good one to give input on how the actual like how one would try and get the mediation piece going between people I think you would want to structure the discussions and decide what the goals are and then work with clay and others to identify good resources to help you accomplish that whether it's from community mediation or community members with particular skills of which we have a wealth of people who are good at helping conversations be moderate and productive so I had a

[55:04] comment before I talk about the occupancy limits and how that might be structured I would suggest looking at what's on the council's work plan right now after their study session with the large lots and it might be something you want to put some energy into weighing in there's been a lot of talk especially at the presentations from the public when you ask the public to come in that might help inform some of the council's discussions I thought of the large large lots and then sub Community Planning it'd be nice if the staff from Planning Board they did a presentation or from planning they did a presentation to the Planning Board on Thursday on the sub

[56:01] Community Planning and then one to council it was basically the same presentation but you might have some suggestions on how housing issues my fit in with the sub community discussion so I was just thinking those are two things those are two projects that are that are starting now and I think it would be helpful considering some of your discussions to maybe be able to weigh in on those understand them and weigh in and then on the occupancy limits and this applies to any kind of topic driven project I'd say you want to have a background like but the educate education where we stand as a community I find that there's a big misunderstanding about the occupancy limits they're different in various

[57:00] zones my phone you can have four unrelated per unit we're in a mix density area so that's quite a you know sometimes you have up four-plex on one side of you and a single family with with a little accessory unit on the other side of you and so that whole education would be really important so everybody's starting it the same with the same information and then the other thing that I found to be really helpful are case studies now in the sub community planning there's a whole series of case studies that they cited for different communities around the country and when you start reading them they're very very interesting and really informative so I mean a case study on occupancy I looked into it a little bit last year and it's really said someone would have to be calling the cities or

[58:00] you know the planners have got all these networks of information it might be good to get information I think we might be surprised there's the number of cities that just do not have a occupancy limits and they're set by the fire department I called the Planning Department in Palo Alto where I'm from and that's what they told me the fire chief sets the occupancy based on the size of the house etc the bedrooms and all of square footage so I just think that that would be really informative who would think that Palo Alto didn't have some kind of fancy so what I'm kind of hearing then is no matter if we're doing a public session around a topic or specifically a question it would be great to have kind of a wide statement or what problem are we solving for and having some previous like just like with any of the

[59:01] presentations a little blurb of the background of where we're at and how we got here yeah yeah and what we're solving for that's for what's available totally agree and if I I think I saw something that Judy and Adam some preliminary results that you would send out am i making about the the input session yeah yeah okay so I think you'd want to go back and you know say it's part of and that was a good point Mason as part of your why why we're doing this and is to be able to tie it back to that or other other issues or other forums sort of brought this up great is there any other questions or anything from number two and from Public Engagement okay so that's special community report so we

[60:01] just finished with standing committee reports we're gonna go into some special committee reports Jeff and I were talking earlier today and I think that we both kind of slipped on and we called it rental increases but I think we meant to say affordable housing resident concerns for this special committee so just an FYI on the update on the agenda is that it's in that so who's on the lead I think I'll do this one as well yeah so what you see in the packet that was sent is just the initial concerns that were brought to us listed under original items so that's a listing of essentially - every item that was brought to us with those affordable rental housing concerns we went through that list and in the second list that says items to be addressed another way isn't removed from consideration at this

[61:00] time we remove the items from the regionalist that we thought we're a little bit beyond the scope or should be addressed in different ways other than our specific committee the thing that is missing from this document is the items that we took out and chose to sort of take on and see what we can do with staff in order to come up with the information we're looking for before we ever you know make a recommendation to the board or to make a recommendation to Council essentially so you don't see in this list here what we're actually working on because we wanted to get with staff and get as much information as possible about those items before we present it to the entire board so it's about four or five total items that we're concentrating on right now and I'm happy to share those with you we just wanted to keep working I guess it's the best way to put it yeah I think we

[62:02] discussed again since jacque's not here and we're going to have a new member soon I'm not sure that it's crucial to spend time on it tonight but I did want to mention especially if anyone is watching that why Adam and I are so vested in this committee and it's because as you all know several months ago some very concerned affordable housing residents came here and talked to us and they also talked to City Council and we talked about it for a while and then sort of tabled it for a while and we feel an obligation we realized this is an issue that may not affect a lot of people but it might affect a lot of people a small amount of people very greatly and we feel that if it's true that affordable housing is starting to be not affordable to some of

[63:01] the people in affordable housing that we need to take a look at it so that's just the background of why it's something we want to continue to to work on and I think as long as we continue to do whatever is on councils plate that we can put in a few things that we think are important to us so next steps are to we've already talked with Jeff about what staff might be able to provide in terms of the information to the questions that we're asking them and once we get some of that information back we're gonna try to make a a move to have the board you know say whether or not they agree with what we're considering to recommend to Council the interesting thing is after we went through this process with Jeff is a lot of the topics that we're

[64:01] focusing on are mostly informational like creating a database of why people might leave affordable housing just as a quick example so if people are truly getting pushed out because rents are being raised too much then we'll sort of have that information so a lot of this stuff is just gonna be informational and not so much needs to be actively changed in rules or anything like that but we want to make sure that essentially we have all the information that we can about these residents and what their situations are so that's sort of the main focus again probably the next time we meet we'll have the full list of things that we're working on for you and hopefully some feedback from staff at that point about those items and also there may be things that we suggested being taken off

[65:01] the plate that the entirety of the board might want an item back on you know Mike oh well you two don't want that but we think this is important and under under this and then there might be other things that we think are worth working on that the whole board doesn't think it so that's the sort of discussion we want to have another thing I want to say is another reason why this is important to us is we're the engagements committee and we take you know public engagement very seriously and this is the first group who's come to us with something and we feel an obligation to to discuss it then because a group of a group of people came to us and the little bit we've looked into it we see you know we see some concerns that are worth us pursuing so I just want to put that out there too so yes what I would ask of you and Jack when he sees it is if there is anything Chuck responded to

[66:02] but that you saw on the list that we've removed that you really want back in that would be great to know and I saw that you responded with what you thought was important so we might just be going at this yeah I always I mean honestly I was confused by the forum I had no idea what was going on I didn't know why there was duplicates and then I realized that the second duplicate was just you making comments on it and I didn't I just didn't understand what the format was totally I think it'll be really cleared up as soon as we share the list that were actually okay and I don't know if you're working in the Google Docs but I sent a link so you could literally see my comments alongside of it and I only went through the first twelve because I didn't realize as there was more I just thought it was your comments on the second twelve so I was like I don't know again I just didn't understand and so you have my comments on that and part of I said this many moons back in the

[67:02] beginning when we first started talking about committees but personally I mean and I sent out the email list of when I had requested everybody say which committees that you're on is that in this process I think to be clear is that we should have a why or a problem or solving for so I get that we all just want to be on these but what's the why and what's the problem that we're solving for Joshua so for me in this when I was looking is that the scope is that in the scope is that not in the scope and then I was like well we don't even have a scope have a scope we don't have a scope we don't have a problem we don't know so how do you know it then it becomes subjective is it in is it out and so I get and think it's fantastic to answer everybody that's coming in because that is why we're here is to be that connection halfway but I feel like it we're we need to be clear and I will

[68:04] make sure that we come up with that because Jeff told us the exact same thing except on an individual question basis so we created our problem statements for each one I could see that but we did not give the full scope which I think he's a lot more limited than we had originally anticipated just with our actual abilities is aboard with a whole lot of staff time to dedicate to us so we'll make sure that that is part of our next you know report that's great fantastic that's the only thing that really came to me is structure format you can see how we're thinking aligns within the scope of the project itself cool yeah still trying to figure this out I think it'll get a lot better process yeah as we do more of these agreed anything else then under

[69:02] affordable housing I just want to say meeting with Jeff really really helped us thank you don't don't you think Adam it really oh yeah it really helped it helps me all the time see Jeff Jeff okay so we have no reports in the other areas I guess since we've gotten through the Standing Committee in the special committees go ahead did you want to review the list of committees that's what I was just gonna say is that maybe since we've talked about the two committees maybe we can just so I asked everybody instead of me just saying are you on this list are you not on this list and I wrote what your responses backward not what I thought any of you should be and this is what came about with that list

[70:00] so we've got public engagement u2 board liaison Judi Alpine balsam is Jacque and I see you is Jacque but I thought you were on that too okay so I didn't put you on there because you didn't say it but I regional house housing is Jacques and I and I none of you guys mentioned sub Community Planning but I put it on there even though like Jeff and I talked about is like we all wanted to be a part of it but since nobody said it I said it and put it on there and said that we would talk about it you know whether or not or how we move forward on that is one thing but I just put it on there it's up community planning on long term simply because it's a 15 year you know like crystal was just saying in the last piece of it is that again for process to me I see the same thing that what you're talking about is and we can link those

[71:01] topics to it is that if we see where city council is going and in the sub Community Planning you know we know where they're going with their presentation last night where they're going for quarter one four quarter two in 2019 we might be able to do a public engagement right in front of that that just ask some questions that they may want to know the answers on that Kathleen might want to know some answers on so I see it all kind of in a flowchart in my head of how we could start to work on some of those processes and and inform our work plan for 2019 as well so special committees we've got the affordable housing residential community and so you're gonna present again next meeting thanks Pete and then we have AMI and you were going to see if you were gonna be ready for this one or for next one right yeah I know Jacque sent a list of a shortlist

[72:01] of yes revenues and salaries and comparison yep yeah but that is the only part that's really happened at all so okay we haven't so you just let us know yeah we'll let you know when we have a report ready okay and then I think you know GD brought up a good point of what what's already been completed so it might be kind of nice to be able to tick some of those down as we move forward was there anything that I missed on those lists and those committees from anybody and I might just do a plug again that for each one of these I think coming up with a wise statement or a problem that we're solving for even though like with Alpine balsam what's our contribution of us being there so that yeah what's the scope of us being there and what's the use of our time and something along those lines so that we're each one of them are clear so if everybody on your committees could just work together on coming up with a scope I think that would be awesome if everybody's into it cool all right so

[73:05] you feel clear about that Jeff are we on the same page then with all those am I missing anything the one we have listed that you didn't mention was community benefit the community benefit project similar to the way we've been thinking of sub community planning is that you would have somebody or someone's from the committee that really become more in depth and more in depth familiarity with that project and they're able to be more of a go-between the project and the board if there is a broader board discussion like you have the sub community planning presentation coming it's currently scheduled for November and that will be an exploration of how you would be engaged in supporting that project and providing your input to counsel as that project moves forward community benefit is the other one where they there was a

[74:01] a study session and they are incorporating all the feedback in an updated project plan which would involve potentially some input from you all mm-hmm and I think right after that presentation was the one the jock and I were interested in being on that and had signed up for that but I just didn't put it on the list I don't know how that got missed cuz I feel like we talked about it and I didn't I just didn't put it on there but thank you for the reminder I didn't reply to your email I guess our brain waves weren't working on that one okay so that's committee work unfinished business so the independent study approach so the home ownership was independent study right yeah and we said that we would give feedback if I may just if anyone is curious about what you're talking about the board had asked that to try an approach where instead of a fairly lengthy and in-depth presentation on the issues that most of

[75:01] that information be provided up front and then the bulk of the time with the board be answering questions from staff answering questions so we've tried it two ways now the first time was nope no presentation and I believe you had consensus that a short presentation made sense to kind of set the stage for that question period and introduce the issues to anyone who hadn't had a chance to read the packet that's what was tried tonight with home ownership so you know you had agreed you wanted to try it twice so that's this is the opportunity to check in on how it's working for you thank you for that package anybody have any feedback okay we're going from this direction that way it seems like so I like them I think without question anything that we have to make a recommendation to Council on I'd like to

[76:01] both get the materials ahead of time and have a presentation because I think it's just a different sort of level but I don't understand that so anything that we have to make a recommendation on to Council you know something that's on their work plan that they want feedback from us that they want us to weigh in on okay I I would like there to besides being the packet in the packet I'd like there to also be the in-person presentation but the ones that we did I I really liked and I thought that were great for things that are not on councils you not specifically on councils work plan for us to vote on I I liked them the educational stuff yeah just educational yeah I believe that you had agreed that when there was a public hearing and a recommendation that you would you had a desire to have a standard full-length presentation followed by a full question answer as part of that public hearing which would

[77:00] be a standard practice so I think that this independent study was limited to items like you just pointed out that our background educational setting the stage perhaps but are not Maxwell recommendation discussions so I'm on record as good I still agree with what we set out then and I liked it I thought was a good idea here's I thought it worked well yeah I liked the middle ground they were here they were super helpful we only spent what 40 minutes total with three or four different presenters so I thought it was the the perfect sort of blend yeah yeah I'm with Adam on that Jeff any feedback from the two groups that have presented under the independent study besides they like getting out fast you know it needs to work for you guys I don't didn't hear any negative feedback about missing an

[78:02] opportunity to share I mean it does tend to focus the effort upfront on really thinking through what information will be most helpful so I I think people have appreciated the opportunity to present the information that way great this leads me to attends it tangential question is the how does one bring a new member to the board up to speed on all these things because we've heard what maybe ten presentations or something what how does that work typically well crystal Hall you could probably speak to it with more authority than I but what I have seen is that each board handles their orientation on boarding a little bit differently often there's a massive pile of things to read and presentations to review but often the people are appointed the boards have been following the issues and may have actually seen a lot of the presentation so I don't know crystal you want to speak to that yeah I

[79:00] think well one of the things that the board's staff often will do is if you get one new person or two people hold a little orientation as as Jeff said and there's a lot here in the housing department that doesn't have the eyes of the public on them because it's a new board quite frankly only the things that go to City Council but I think the agendas would be in the packets attached to them would be a good starting point not everything has been televised so that might be less of a resource but yeah just kind of if she said I do have some thoughts on this is I do like how you clarified Judy that anything with the recommendation that would go to Council would have a full presentation just because it's helpful to the public especially anybody that wants to make a

[80:01] comment and be well-informed the only problem I have with with the way this is set up is the questions just still kind of they're not organized in any topic so maybe the last slide could be a number of topics that were covered in in the memo and just put them up I don't you know I don't know if it would be helpful to people send in questions ahead of time that might be too much just too much to ask because there's a union structure our questions structure your questions yeah because it looks like when you watch it people are bouncing around from topic to topic and if everything on qualifying for loans could be under one

[81:00] topic if everything you know what kind of actually the it's kind of organized in the packet as you're reading it there's different topic headings and you know and you could just say do people have questions in this area because it does seem a bit scattered so if they that would assume that they didn't have the packet then and that they were if we bundled questions because wouldn't they need the same context with us jumping around as they would with the questions so wouldn't they be helpful by using the packet anyway so you're saying yeah I don't that's kind of the same thing if you want to go through the packet and say are there questions on you know the the rental agreements shooty that was one of the things that you brought up or

[82:00] something or are there questions on the homeownership committee you know couldn't have to be it long it just would help organize the discussion a bit could that be handled then by the people making the presentation when they say questions just list the topics that they that chapter headings or whatever of the times and then we went through it that way so we could ask our questions in an order that maybe would be easier for the public and I guess before we go to deep dive into this how many more more educational pieces do you have because didn't you and I look at it and we don't have any more independent studies anyway there are background kind of information items which are a couple that we certainly would recommend but as as a standing board there will be numerous educational presentations you know throughout the year often a project will be introduced to you that way

[83:00] beef long before you're asked to weigh in as a way of giving you some context and the ability to study it before you're asked to deliberate on it so the plan so that brings me to the council's meeting last night I get mixed up on rotate on last night where it was two topics as you and I mentioned that were both of interests to to us to the housing advisory board is it possible that we can get sent those packets or maybe do the same thing with the because those are things that are going to be coming up for us correct or is that too early are we too early for doing that now it's our online session packets are available at any time and there will be assuming that we keep a sub Community Planning project item on your agenda there will be materials in advance which may be the study session packet or maybe something more developed in response to the feedback from counsel your question

[84:00] I'm not sure I realize they're online and that's where you know I looked at them but if they came to the whole to have as a whole and we're in our packets it seems to me it would show something that these are housing issues of importance to the board and the whole board rather than me just deciding are you just deciding oh I'll go to the meeting or I'll look it up that these are important to us these are relevant they're housing issues and we have the packet and we can either decide to have staff you know answer questions or not I just thought those are two really relevant topics that are going to be coming up for us in the future and we've had preliminary presentations about like Alpine balsam that again is emerging they're not coming in the future and we've heard different iterations of them and that seemed like two pretty important things that we get lots of emails about both of them you know the problem with reading the City Council packet is they bundle it everything together they don't break it out in individual topics or agenda items

[85:04] now the Planning Board Cindy awesome will send a full packet but also has it all broken out and I think that's what I sent you all this sub community I hope you got it and again sub can I send it to the habit dress it's not sounding familiar okay I'll resend it but I came to the Planning Board in just one nice packet for the sub community planning oh I've got that right here and I'll just send it on and and then like I said the council one you'd have to go the planning but well I think we for the large lot we could carve out the portions that are interesting yeah if you could do that it's so much yeah

[86:03] [Music] okay so that was kind of off topic on the independent study a little bit but so we're overall good with the blend yes okay new business initial discussion of process to develop haves annual letter to City Council so too destructive discussion did everybody read Jeff's Jeff sent out examples of all the other boards letters to City Council from last year yeah yes so I'm curious we have to come up with process or met how we want to do this and it's not this is this is how I kind of see this is one of three parts which I think we'll get into the same routine of how City Council does this one of three parts but this first part is just process in format not what

[87:01] the content is and not how we want to go about that so does anybody have ideas on process and format and how you'd like to move forward on developing a letter to City Council I have a question first crystal is is my understanding that the board is very likely to come up with a few questions this year do you have any idea about that that the committee for deciding if there's questions that goes to everyone the committee is Bob Yates and Lisa Moore's L do you know anything about that and that's just like last year you're asked questions in your letter about what are the top three priorities you see for the city that oh snap there may be questions that's a good point that that's a very good point because that was a little bit of a departure from just every board just giving their suggestions so I think it might be somewhere in there people reference so what I believe is being

[88:03] discussed as last year council asked all of the boards and commissions to structure their letter at least in part around I think it was three specific questions right and I mean that is I do not know if they intend to take the same approach this year or not they and as you noticed in the letters that the boards and commissions wrote they took different approaches to responding to those questions sometimes they limited their responses to those questions sometimes they expanded beyond that I think there were a couple of boards and commissions that did not provide a letter but the large majority did you know as this is somewhat new to us we've asked around some of the other board secretaries and and this is really a board letter not board staff letter so we will support you to the extent you

[89:02] want Cori can't prepare this for us exactly see what she came up with four other ways that it's handled you have plenty of ideas on how to approach this it's part of your discussion about your priorities as well and how that might make their way into a letter and then you have a sitting board member I don't know how many years you've participated in board letter process but many over the years so a lot of resources for you to figure it out yeah it seemed when I was reviewing these like the top three questions are from last year were how do you think the city could improve their public engagement process through your board and what do you think the city's top Street priority should be through your board perspective and what do you think that will be the city's three biggest challenges over the next five years so it's a definitely interesting is there a way to find out like Judy was

[90:01] saying whether or not there'll be questions this year I got the impression they don't quite know yet but are leaning that way that was my impression we can certainly ask I haven't heard anything Cory if you've been talking with any board secretary I feel like we can proceed either way proceed with how we're approaching it and then if that happens then we just do that but I preliminary before we start talking about that I wanted to talk in general just to share information about I've been trying to talk to some people in other boards and trying to go to a few meetings as a board liaison person and I've noticed that some boards are reactive and I don't mean reactive in a negative way I mean they react to what City Council wants and that's pretty much what they do some seem to be staff driven some seem to be board driven some

[91:01] seem to be both reactive and proactive where they do a balance of what council wants but also try to bring new initiatives to councils attention and it just seems like in our discussion we might want to decide or discuss a little bit how we see ourselves which which of those do we see is ourselves ok so you're suggesting that we consider in our process describing described well I think we all agree we want to do what's in councils work plan I think we all agree with that beyond that I think we should have a discussion do we also want to be coming up for some initiatives on our own like besides what's in the council's work plan that we decide if we want one two three five other issues for the year that we're going to be working on okay so back to the letter processing

[92:01] format in the letter processor format you are suggesting what well okay I would like to okay in the letter process I would suggest that we have at least four parts an introduction which they all seem to many seem to have the best ones have an introduction and a thank you sort of thing then we have a few of the things we've accomplished very briefly and then the things we want to do which would be two parts as far as their work plan the things we intend to undertake as we see their work plan and then that we pick one two five or whatever it is initiatives of our own that we'd like to be pursuing that's how I would like to see the letter great Adam yeah I'm not so sold on whatever the format needs to

[93:02] be at this point but going back to our previous conversation I think we should first define the scope of what we want to tell council so we just give ourselves those guidelines right you know guardrails right off the start and that should be the very first discussion that we have when we have a full board here to do so could you define a little bit more about what you mean by scope for this matter just a little just I just like to hear a little more what you talking about sure so I think Judy already was sort of laid out tactical level stuff you know what our accomplishments I'm saying do we even need to talk accomplishments at this point in the board's history you know was it more important that we just talk

[94:02] about what we want to do in the future I just still think we have some definition problems about what the board has done and we yeah yes scope is in focus yeah what's the drilling down to the focus of so an introduction being our focus is that what I'm kind of getting to yeah what's the what's actually gonna be helpful to council I guess is the best best thing this isn't for us this is for them when we when we I wanted to take a break for a moment should know I have to use can we pause I'm glad I meant to do this before we started on this one thank you has it been drinking to your five minutes yes five minutes okay thank you I was starting to not listen to floating mm-hmm it was a little note yeah saying

[95:00] I have you seen this guy he's been at the back of my house three times on the ring camera no these are my girls I was gonna say that

[98:32] we left off with judy we did no no that's what you're saying oh the stop okay and we stopped in action go ahead and yeah again mine is all my only contribution at this point is what is actually gonna help counsel that should be our focus and those are kind of my personal guard rails of scope and

[99:03] crystal did I see your finger yeah so let me turn this on just the process of how it's going to come about whether or not they asked for the City Council asks for answers to three questions or if it's just please give us your ideas about things that the City Council should be aware of or interested in and what you're going to need is is you're going to need probably when you get that letter that everybody that's what I would suggest everyone looks at it sends their ideas into one person so you're not having a serial meeting that's them that's the thing the Planning Board always tries to avoid and so sometimes Cindy who's the administrative assistant will gather those up sometimes we'll just send it to pick one board member

[100:00] and then the next meeting we we all we all have a big list whoever gets that just just come by compiles it cuts in paces pace verbatim and then we have a meeting where we kind of discuss that and hash it out you know then we delegate one person who's a good writer a good organizer to kind of put it together and then we and then we'll discuss that final draft and usually there could be a little bit of wordsmithing sometimes we have everybody who's got a subject matter that's important let's say it's occupancy limits then that person might write that out in a more fuller way you know kind of but not not trying to go if you can keep it to one one and a half pages yeah we don't probably get referred great

[101:01] examples yeah it'll get read so I'm just saying if you're gonna calendar this out one of the letters due December 1st yeah we're looking at the dates right now if we've got a meeting tomorrow ok great whatever then you're going to need a couple of meetings ahead of that and you're gonna need somebody who's gonna volunteer who's a good editor or writer thank you kind of put it together Jeff just wondering if I can put you on the spot crystal for your council experience what did you find most useful in the letters you know when you have 20 letters to review sounds like brevity and clarity you're important and it's just depends on you can ask every council member and they'd have a different response I mean I'm more of a graphic person so have things bowled it out and handful at points that's fine with me I really like it

[102:00] you know so it really depends on who you're asking but clarity to the point prioritize if they ask you any questions be sure to answer them even though we went where did these come from the last three questions because we had already had our ideas of what we were going to put forth in the in our letter to the council I have a comment and I have a question for you crystal as I understand the process to make sure that every letter from a board or Commission is read well and given attention besides the fact that everyone can read everything each board member is assigned at random several board letters and then at the retreat they give or at least this is what happened last time they give a two or three-minute report so that every board and Commission has a presentation by a council member as a summary of what

[103:01] their letter was and also I noticed I think these letters go from maybe one pages to three full pages that we had the question I have for you crystal is and just think interrupt that that's a good point cuz that had changed and obviously they changed having one council member be the kind of authority be able to answer questions to help engage the council and in their discussion yeah and the question I have for you is obviously in this letter besides saying we want to do all the things that council wants and it seems like this year you want to do blah blah blah blah blah the things that we decide we want to do ourselves how did you like how do you arrive at that like how do you suggest we arrive at that what do you mean for an individual board member who doesn't who wants to separate out

[104:00] their opinion no I saw in one case there was a minority opinion I guess you always can do that in one of the letters somebody put I think it was in the transportation department somebody did their minority letter no I mean the things we decide to put in the letter about what we want our priorities to be one of them I assume is going to be we want to do you know what's on the council work plan but other initiatives that we want to be put in that may not be like say we all agree tiny houses isn't on the council's work plan we want to spend some time on that how do we arrive at those decisions well how do you you mean whether okay there are two questions yeah yeah how you arrived at that this you have these discussions I'm just suggesting just based on how long it takes us some planning board to do to do it over a couple of over a couple of meetings and then yeah I mean we've suggested

[105:02] different planning initiatives over the years and sometimes they don't go for them and and it's not ripe enough and other times you can just see them move up on the work plan so I don't know if that answered your question I mean I guess it's also a little different because a lot of what Planning Board does is react to specific plans that come into you so much of your work is dictated by well we yeah we we have some charter responsive yeah so we can it's usually with the site planning and then we have some responsibilities fun we have to recommend on the CIP for every single Department in the city so we have a big CIP process so we're informed about that but what's that mean the capital improvement program for all the different departments but I wouldn't a few of things that you feel that you

[106:00] or I think you should just say we'd like we're gonna be we're suggesting that we work on these things get input and would like to form a recommendation or are going to form a recommendation and bring it back to you I don't you never divided up into categories yeah I think it's important for the board to through its process arrive at a consensus on what any recommendations might be more suggestions might be if they're not on the council work plan if they are not supported across the whole group that's going to really weaken your ability to provide a clear message this is something community really needs to wrestle with yes to that end my recommendation for the process portion of this is I like how you're talking

[107:00] about with the format Judy yeah I'm not and I'm also with you in that I don't know that we need I like the idea of a scoping versus our accomplishments or anything along those lines but in particular I was thinking about that today is how do we reach in the next one like how are we gonna funnel down to a consensus on these a few initiatives that we want to recommend so what I was wondering if we could put the out there for the second meeting is if everybody could maybe write their top three or four initiatives that they would like to see in the letter and see if we meet common in anything we did kind of like last the end of last meeting but that was a fire around and maybe we have some more time to really think about really what would you like to see and the top three things that we would write about and this is something we don't know answers now just sit with it let jock sit with it he'll be watching this afterwards and and then

[108:02] maybe what we do before the next meeting is is it okay then Cory if if the three things could be sent to you and you just compiled them into one letter for us thank you I'm so on three or four or just one document so I was wondering about that too because I immediately went to three to five but then I was like well then we're whittling down more so if you can focus to three let's focus to three and see if we can meet common there with two lay sides you know something that put them in greyscale I think there's something we need to take into consideration if it's possible for you to send the work plan again the the City Council's 2018-2019 work plan to us again and we look at that because we don't need to put anything in the additional things we want to do the City Council is already taking up this will be we do want to do all of that we all agree we want to do with City Council

[109:01] wants us to do but this would be for one two three four five however many initiatives we decide we want to do an addition than that so we don't need to like like I'm not going to put middle-income housing because that's on the work plan but tiny houses I don't think is on the work plan I'm I don't know if those are if that's accurate so you're asking for the work plan just so you can make sure that your three initiatives aren't already on the work plan and I don't see why any ones would be because we're already doing those those aren't new initiatives those aren't so those aren't Donita what I'm hearing I think is you don't want to use what one of your priorities if it's already on the work plan it'll be to say right yeah so yes we can send you what we currently know yeah so back to you if everybody could do their three initiative in a clarification though I am making an assumption that you want the items that

[110:00] are potentially housing board related not the entire work plan right yes yes yes they have the happy yes yes also how do we want to incorporate the new person in this as well as Jonica you know the new person maybe October 2nd may not be you said or somebody said it's it's possible that an appointment could be made at the next council meeting it's possible it won't be it's I don't know the answer to that I kind of feel like at this point that we just crossed that bridge when it comes to it and we'll figure all these elements out when we get to it and if they don't make the decision they don't and it's like having the adopted child that you don't know you're gonna receive at some point so let's just move forward with what we have to get done and when we get to that point we can cross that bridge one more thing is since you did go to the effort of doing a community engagement process to get opinions from the public I think

[111:03] it would be great to be able to at least reference that and if any of you have a priority that was brought up numerous times from the public or whatever just say if you could even have one ask your s and put it down at the bottom and that's great I think we can get to when we get to content yeah I can start talking about that right now it's just like how do we want to come up with the framework yeah anything else under the letter and I'm sure jock will read this and I also kind of send an update of just getting his top three initiatives as well I guess I have something about the priorities we put so once we get our three priorities I like an opportunity in deciding what those three priorities are to to have an opportunity to each try and I don't give a sales pitch I guess for our three

[112:01] priorities and have people decide rather than I don't I I would rather myself not do a poll where the top three get I'd like to do it discussion and consensus in some way on those items rather than just have whatever three priorities oh these three everyone agreed on you know rather I'd rather do that anything else given the time of year it probably doesn't have to be nailed down tonight but you have potentially only three meetings before this letter would be due and given the newness of this process and not just the process but also the prioritization exercise I think it might be useful to sketch out how it's going to move forward you've got it sounds to me a first step of asking everyone to be thoughtful about what priorities currently you are thinking I heard Judy just suggest a second step which is to

[113:01] take those have an open discussion about them but it's not clear to me how you would proceed after that I don't know if that's something you want to work on tonight but I think that earlier you have a full roadmap laid out the easier it will be for you to to get to the destination on time as it were yes my guess is and add to it if your is in round two when Cori compiles it and Drock would be here that to me would be the time that that's why we're compiling it is to have a see where we meet have a discussion about it and see if we can whittle down or be somewhat on the same page of whatever those initiatives are so that to me could be a big chunk of that meeting is really working on whether or not to come with us three

[114:01] I think at the end of that is when we would come to who could take it from there and wordsmith those last ones together and present a letter for round three and then round three would be is this where we and maybe what can happen between round two and round three is that the person wordsmiths it sends it out and anybody can make their changes and send it to Cory and we can condense that down again to one maybe I don't know and then round 3 would be the take with the condensed letter from Cory and review so I have a question could you say again what exactly we're supposed to give to Cory now is it just our is it supposed to be an explanation of why we have our three priorities or just two or three words about each priority I mean and is that all we're giving to Cory

[115:01] right now I was just suggesting that we send to Cory before the next meeting the three initiatives so you suggested a framework of three singing of things that we want to do that our City Council related and that are on their agendas that we will be doing no matter what and a few initiatives that we want to recommend so to get to the point of the few initiatives that we want to recommend each of us should say what are the recommendations that or initiatives we want to do so send those to Cory three initiatives you'd want to see shoot a super-short like tiny homes tiny homes that's a great point if we're gonna go into discussion on them and you want to enroll people into your position of why tiny homes should be something we'd focus on it'd be a great opportunity to do that beforehand

[116:04] no send it send it for the compilation so if your three initiatives are say tiny houses middle-income this way and something else you can it could be a purse way the pair grow up graph on I think have should focus on this because of this this and this so that when we get the compilation we can look at it and go thank you yeah and then because when we prepare for discussion at round two we've already read what everybody's saying so we might even be prepared to sway down to the three by that point so first we'll get the the most recent copy of the housing work planned by City Council so we won't waste anyone's time putting stuff in that's already in there and then we'll send our three ideas to Cori with as much detail like three four pages okay and then I see this happening

[117:13] probably at the late October meeting when we know everyone's going to be there is I think Jacques said he wasn't is he missing the first one in October yeah well you get to schedule a meeting for the October 10th that's on your agenda for tonight he will not be available that evening or that afternoon since that's an afternoon meeting so he will be back for the 24th okay and just in terms of that I did discuss with him that just because he's gone doesn't mean that he can't take the agenda or these items and write his responses and participate anyway because it's not a well you won't be there to argue though yeah that is right and can i I'm gonna say a Robert's Rules of

[118:00] Order point of clarification I don't even know if that's the right term for this but this does not need to include like anything that Adam and I do for public engagement where we're not asking for recommendation but we're just putting on vents to get public input and to try and build towards consensus and isn't that that we can mention that in the letter but that's not one of our priorities or or is it do you see what I'm saying then well we have we want to do a lot of public engagement things where we try and get the public more engaged and is that one of our aspects so you're asking if committee business is an initiative yeah well if know if community engagement committee so this is where the separation I see is the things that we're sort of trying to work on with these three topics are special committees that have hopefully some

[119:01] ultimate recommendation associated with them or at least some work that's gonna go to Council for review right whereas the ongoing sort of committees are just things that we do as a board that are constant so they don't need to be part of we're not arguing for that to be designated more staff resources or workload it doesn't have to be we're not asking them to put it on their work plan because it's already on their work print like Alpine balsam Cu regional housing all that's already on their work pants so this would be special so like with the ami if you've decided you really wanted to move forward with it we need to we need more resources for research we could be putting that as your initiative to ask counsel for this and this is why okay but also do we say if we're gonna have a vigorous engagement plan and we're really taking public engagement seriously and we're planning

[120:00] on having three to six events during the year where we try and get public engagement number one I think counsel would want to know that and number two I want to make sure that nobody would say to me an Adam well you can't do that because that wasn't one of our priorities so that's why I want to talk about it now just a bit like how that I don't care how it fits I just want it to be I do think that council will be interested in doing that because we're doing something that's really of high interest to them is trying to build consensus with the public I think but I don't know if that needs to be suggested as a priority if that's separate how does it strike you yes that I think you could approach it either way if it is a something that you feel is so important to the community discussion of housing issues that you want to tell council that you're making it a priority then you should do that or you could say you know we feel like

[121:01] these two three one topic areas are really ripe they're not on the work plan we think they should be and we also are going to continue working to engage the community on housing issues as a report on what activities you plan to undertake I could see it either way depending on what emphasis you want to put on it and what you hope council might do in reaction to your communication that makes sense crystal yes so how about a hybrid where you get your three initiatives and then if you're looking at public engagement and you because in the committee's you're coming back to the board anyway for our group consensus as to whether or not it's a project that moves forward not just city council so maybe do your three initiatives that are priority for you and if you have something that you think is going to be so big and a larger scope to add that

[122:02] and then at least we it's in our purview does that make sense yeah I'm just thinking through this in my head everything we have listed under Standing Committee reports those aren't things that we're going to council with pretty much ever those are things that are important to our board we're trying to work through and yeah they'll probably help council along the way because they're mostly processes that help us get to some solutions to bigger problems but it's those bigger problems that actually are ending up on the council's work work plan and those all fit under special committee reports so I don't feel like we need to put we really want to engage people as one of our priorities because that is sort of what the board does and has very little to do with council and their actual actions except that if we're making reports like I'm assuming that after we do three occupancy public hearings we're

[123:03] gonna do a report that means occupancy is one of your three top issues good point good point and the engagement committee helps facilitate yes the working of that is just like its occupancy yeah okay good point yeah so engagement is not the goal it's the goal for our board for sure and our committee especially but getting to a consensus or a statement to council about occupancy is the goal for them which we should be saying is what we ultimately want to see on their work plan right good point does that make sense yes I'm still gonna submit something as it as a hybrid like you mentioned yes cuz there will be two other people you can we could also just have a line in there that says engagement with the community is super important to the board but it's not one of our three right to be doing it you know at least three to six times total yeah that feels great to me in a body paragraph yeah so what I'm if

[124:11] I heard the last piece right Adam what you were saying is that you're okay with suggesting that we do a whole letter and she does a paragraph at the bottom the the bottom of it yeah yeah I mean there's gonna be a part I feel like in the letter where we say we feel the board is as a whole like what are what we're trying to do with the community as liaison between let's go yeah the community and the and the council so that's sort of like to me a body paragraph where the three points are each separate themselves okay right I the only thing that I'm kind of really hoping since we got off to such a rocky

[125:01] start with this board and we looked so crazy with that recommendation is that I would really hope that we could work towards consensus on a format that we all look like we're working together and that we're driving in a certain area and it's not we're all over here but we've got one thing so we weren't thinking of doing it as my Minority Report we were thinking of doing it it's just we'd say the three priorities and then I would say additionally engagement public engagement is very important to the board it would be from all of us that wouldn't be from just me anything and we will be doing between three and six public engagement outreach efforts during the year thank you for that and as I finish what I'm saying is that what I'm hoping for in this is that we work towards consensus and that the letter feels congruent and all together I know how you might feel that that sounds but

[126:01] what I'm it's my one priority after this letter is that we all work towards something so I when I heard what he said I'm just trying to make clear that this is a goal I have whether it's for the whole board it's something that we'll vote on it's just that I think some of the feedback we got from that first letter and not all being together and around ad use and that is that I'd really strive for us to have something that was should we were cohesive in a team I guess what I'm talking about is like a very small portion of whether that cubes are sort of guiding principles or core values and I think that engagement which we haven't done yet yeah but the engagement is one of those and that's where I would see that in the letter as a core value because I I think that's one that we could agree on the engagement with the community is one of our reasons for

[127:01] being so that that's where I think Judy's part fits in and we all have room to consensus bill for what the board actually does well and that's a this lens this whole discussion lends to a great point of we've never done the work around our core principles we've never done the work around who we are and what it is that we really are striving for so when we talk about even with these smaller committees about having our scopes and our Y statements that's why we do these four point I think you're getting all gonna do just fine planting boards have these discussions just like this yes and and it's great to go through definitely I have I had the utmost face the face that will get there but we definitely haven't had these conversations so it's good to have them oh god what's on our work plan in October right and that brings us to

[128:03] matters from staff so there are two things one on the agenda and one that came up after this was published that was just an update the one that's on the agenda manufactured housing strategy project plan is an item that we wanted to share with you to see if you had any feedback on how that project should move forward for a little bit of context the City Council has prioritized development of a manufactured housing strategy for this council the project plan of which I'm the project manager was developed in consultation certainly with staff but mostly with the residents of mobile home parks and the owners of the mobile home parks as the principle stakeholders in this strategic discussion you'll see

[129:03] that it is framed in some ways a little differently than some in that there is a very clear adopted policy that the council has maintained for many years now that is to preserve and expand manufactured housing as a housing option that's very important to the community so that isn't really up for discussion what the strategy effort is trying to accomplish is through engaging directly with the principal stakeholders as well as interested community members to develop a list of actions that the city the owners of parks residents of parks could take to further the goal of preserving and expanding this housing option in the community we did some outreach to evaluate different approaches to this project and the

[130:00] majority of the feedback was that given the history of conversations and the and the current relationships between the various parties that was felt that it would be pretty more productive if everyone could have their own as it were opportunity to share their thoughts concerns ideas and solutions and then have all of that compiled in a way that everybody could comment on equally so that's the approach we've we are suggesting we are just it has been shared out for comment to the stakeholders just like it's being shared with you we would anticipate as far as your involvement if this project moves forward in this way that you would be seeing a recommended list or proposed list of prioritized actions sometime

[131:00] late first quarter maybe early second quarter of next year for your input and passing that along with the recommendation to Council first half of next year so that's a really brief overview I'm happy to answer any questions about it I'd love to hear your thoughts about how this project might be improved are there gonna be like just for an example of what these recommendations might look like changes to laws zoning we are not constraining it upfront so we're trying to assemble it list as possible and then work towards some priorities which will mean winnowing that down so certainly local law changes or advocating for state law changes our actions that could help us with achieving our policy goals but there are many other things that could be done as well that don't involve ordinances or advocating for state

[132:00] legislation and how realistic is expansion as opposed to preservation since those are the two preservation is probably a higher priority given the very limited land availability we have and the amount of land it takes to expand mobile home parks but as there are opportunities to fulfill that policy direction we would be proposing if there is a land use decision to be made to a particularly one that might involve residential land use is that a manufactured housing community be considered as one of the options there I have just I just have a question when you think about outreach obviously the stakeholders that are owners it's probably fairly easy to reach is it hard to reach all of the people living in manufactured housing or can you reach

[133:00] everyone it's difficult to reach 1,200 households of any grouping I would say there is an active group called the coalition manufactured housing owners a boulder that has people from each of the manufactured housing communities participating in it I'll be there tomorrow night to begin the conversation with them about how to best engage with the member the residents of each Park which could take different forms for each Park the the scope as you'll see addresses the four parks that are within the city limits there are two that could potentially be an X so that would be one way of expand it wouldn't expand the number of tuna tease it would expand the prevalence of that option inside the city and those are not as far as I know the owners of those parts are not

[134:00] requested or not interested in annexation so expanding it as an opportunity in terms of numbers is going to be new Park so yes it will be difficult to reach them all one of the elements of this plan we're very excited about is working with the Boulder affordable housing research initiative as a grouping of Cu students faculty to conduct a survey of mobile home park residents to try and get some more if not statistically valid at least more less anecdotal understanding of who actually lives in the parks and what their situations are in desires so as that effort unwinds we'll have a better sense of how wide and thorough our our connection with those 1,200 households can be thank you and Ponderosa is under annexation or becoming it by the first

[135:00] quarter correct is that supposed to be completed by the first quarter is there a reason why it's not under the scope the reason it is twofold one is primary one is that the plan for that is to gradually and to the extent that residents want make it not a manufactured housing community that has defined under our code where the the land and the home the homes are not on fixed foundations the land is I don't have a hybrid I think right that's right so the Ponderosa model will be migrating away from the manufactured housing model to fix foundation resident control the various levels so yeah any other questions on that fantastic right thank you the update I wanted to give you was tonight's event that I mentioned UO I was putting on for Alpine balsam which created a conflict is my understanding is or I was told

[136:03] that it would be Tate degree and that presentation and potentially some of the discussion would be available for viewing so if you have an interest in that yes send it out maybe we will send out the link yes that'd be awesome thank you yeah I was bummed when I saw that conflict that was like wow okay anything else from Steph Cory hi Cory so we've got calendar check so at the moment you have a scheduled meeting the 24th of October and the 28th of November and the 12th of December for the remaining meetings in the year it's been an open question as to whether you would have continued your second Wednesday three to

[137:00] six meetings for October and November you said 24th and 28th right that's correct okay and we for good or we you've already said that 26 would not make sense to me taint as would be the fourth Wednesday of your standard meeting so that meeting I has been I think you have scheduled it for the 12th rather than not scheduled it and then the complication of October 10th which would be the second Wednesday in October is that one member of the for current seated members is not available and whether you want to continue any of your conversations then as a decision you need to make tonight so we can schedule that and get an agenda together is there anything on the 10th that we let me pull up your agenda item that we could do that wouldn't involve voting or so we

[138:01] could do the area agents the Area Agency on Aging so we have that on the 24th so sorry skipped me saying that so you could have your middle-income strategy background and and Q&A session as well as your introduction to the down payment program I checked with the project manager Jay said that he said he could do that that day if you'd like that project may we'll be coming back to you certainly but this is an opportunity to help shape it so whether you would want to consider that for the 10th is an option the other items that we have we could potentially get the technical review group check-in moved to them

[139:00] yeah whatever it seems if we could clear the 24th as much as possible for the second round of priorities in the leather that seems like it would make sense and then the 10th we could use for as much of this as we could move over to there just a thought if anybody wants to add that one shot can just watch it well the 10th would not be televised he'd listen to the tenth and be with us on the 24th yeah which is I think the most important ring I also think we should schedule one the second week in November - cuz that's when we really be wanting to finish it up if it's possibly due December 1st so I think the feedback we got was that they're typically council usually asked for them by early to mid January isn't that accurate Cory isn't that when they have their well their treat is

[140:01] typically towards the end of January so they usually want the letters a week or so in advance of the retreat so I think you have through the end of the year so we'd have November and December well just a one yeah first part of December mm-hm I'm dr. venture worth and then that would be our so October 24th could be our second meeting and then we could put a November's looking pretty full and then potentially one of the opposite one of the wins one of the Wednesday meetings on November I I think the question that came up is a couple of times tonight about the new member and to what extent the person would have an opportunity to participate if without knowing exactly when that will be it's

[141:00] kind of hard to plan around but presumably the further in the future the discussions happen the greater likelihood you'll have a fifth member appointed I'm not sure if it's worth incorporating that and your scheduling or not given that we don't know when that might happen again I'm for us moving forward and jumping those hurdles when it happens I think that makes sense I'm I'm in favor of scheduling for the second Wednesday both in October and November and if we zoom through everything so fast that we feel we don't need the second the second Wednesday in November we can then decide that but I'd sure like to have it scheduled just in case we need it yeah I'm I think we're gonna need the second just for the third review on the letter unless we want to dump it and then that way we have room for that meeting in December if it all implode Xand we're

[142:01] not able to come to a consensus god forbid knock on wood to just be sure we understand and are you asking for it sounds like you there you do want to proceed with two meetings in October two meetings in November it's not clear to me if you would want your three priorities in time for the first meeting in October or the second meeting in October 2nd 2nd meeting yeah that's clear thank you ok yeah and the hope would be to get them to her to quarry in time that you'd condense them and put them back out so that we have time to non them before the 24th meeting well I have a question could we have them done to us by the meeting the first meeting in October the second week in October when Jacques wouldn't be there but we'd at

[143:00] least have them and be able to see them and we can each start mulling and thinking about it or is that just as long as we're not talking about them at that meeting because I feel like one that would be unfair to Jacques into it could set off a whole hour long conversation if not more that brings up the again the hurdle of the fifth person if we have to have them in by that time it's probably almost guaranteed that that person will not be part of that process then they won't have their input in the letter at all then that could cascade a new whole other group of issues if we have the letter by this if we have our three things in by the first meeting in October so you suggest we wait so I suggest okay cuz we'd be put the putting the agenda out the week before October 24th meeting and that would go to all of us to give us a week

[144:00] to see so yeah Corie whenever we want but it's not gonna send it back to us tell the packet for the 24th because the in hopes that then that person will be seated and we will have their homework to them and they will have their homework back yeah the week before our 24th meeting yeah so many assumptions it's a little time your deadline would be a couple days maybe the Friday before the packets this the 17th so you and I usually meet so we would be meeting October 17th so to have everybody's by then so we can put it on the agenda so the date would be your three initiatives to Cory no later than October 17th no it'd have to be before that because you'd have to combine them so we need it to her by let's say the Monday the fifth don't hit 12 gentl Jeff 15 yeah Monday

[145:10] okay so initiatives step two - Cory by the 15th and the earlier in the day the better so that she doesn't have to wait for the very last ones to be German so then I'm just sticking on that step three with the discussion and where you engage with each other on and the issues would be on the 24th and then you would at that meeting select somebody to do a first draft and then would you expect to have the discussion the first meeting in November or the second meeting in November I would say that the compilation and that first draft personally goes on that first meeting in November

[146:08] great thank you that's clear and then even further from that that's the first reading on the letter so any major changes would occur and then we could potentially have final reading on the 28th of November so the letter could be ready by then and that way if we have any big snafus or something presents itself that we're like we've got to back up and redo this we have the meeting in December yeah okay so that's our fallback but we want to have it the goal is prepared by the 28th Jeff could you just tell us or if you have it on on your computer what is for October 24th what is what is there right now so the two that are set for that evening meeting would be the introduction to the regional housing goal this policy question and recommendation that you'll

[147:01] be making it's currently scheduled for November 28th and then you've you've agreed with Agency on Aging to explore their interest and in discussing affordable housing concerns and will we be voting on their regional thing you will be you're being asked to make a recommendation to Council on November 28th you would be having a public hearing and then having your deliberations and deciding whether to make a recommendation and if so what that would be okay thank you just to clarify that public hearing and recommendation is that in October is that in November it's in November so the October is a is a yeah opportunity to learn about it to start developing your questions I'm thinking to have give some time for you to ask for additional information if you need

[148:01] it for the month later essentially could come back with any additional information you would want so as a point of process on this as we do things like this that we're gonna we're called to make a recommendation so for instance like this 12% goal Eden I would be curious if we could do a three rounder like city council does so that's round one introduction in reading round two would be answering questions formulating our response and three is the prepared that goes off so that we have does that make sense you know similar to what the City Council does then that way we have a little breathing room in there where we can take it in ourselves figure out any questions we have presenting back at number two get some answers be able to discuss with ourselves whittle down any decisions that we might make and prepare who's ever going to prepare the recommendation so that it's ready by three does that feel comfortable I think that's doable as long as they're

[149:01] having meetings twice a month I think it might be impossible timewise to get in but if we go back to having just one meeting a month I just don't how does Planning Board do it crystal well planning board is so you mean on whoa on lamb juice recommendations which are different than our quasi-judicial crossing traditional or just by a schedule we get a concept plan then they come back with the site review that's where we make a recommendation with legislative things will often have a study session just like on the sub Community Plan we haven't had large lots yet but I did notice planning board I looked at their timetable I was just checking that out we'll have a chance to weigh in on it and then they'll start a whole public process and then it'll come back and so this you have three steps study session public process and then

[150:01] we'll make the recommendations the study session is often the staff coming and scoping out the whole the whole kit and caboodle and it has a public engagement piece in it and if council excuse me at the same time well they'll talk about what they're gonna do as far as public engagement goes so yeah but they see it over quite a long period of time I was just looking at the large lot one because if you want to bring up tiny homes that seems like it fit nicely and that that's not going to come back till decisions in 2019 so what's interesting about that going back to carving up City Council's packets as well I mean for me I'm attending all those meetings anyway so I see what's coming down the pike but if we are down to just one meeting a month instead of the two like this one

[151:02] with the large lots and the sub community if we flag for each other hey this meeting tonight is on this portion of it watch it would ever get familiar but bless you bless you but then we may this is something to think about how we want to have this process of how we can get in front of recommendations in a way that we've got processing time to breathe with them as well well just like the mobile home one that Jeff they were presented tonight there was a link to the 2015 memo which has a whole bunch of background now things change within three years but yeah you might just have a tracking list and so people can get up to date I actually find it really helpful to get in early to understand the process and

[152:01] see how it's evolving so you don't have to absorb everything all at once at one meeting can you remind us crystal how often Planning Board meets we meet twice a month sometimes when it's really gets busy we'll meet every Thursday but that gets pretty brutal and we haven't been elevated to that status of protecting our but remember our agenda is determined often by the timeframe that's in our code of when projects have to be reviewed and looked at it's so if it's a busy economic environment for development and that will determine our calendar so you've had some easier years in tougher economic time okay

[153:02] something to think about as we move forward I think it's just one of those things that has to pause and we'll think we'll think about it things I think it's really important so is there a good way we can set up within hab to do that to be tracking Jeff you have any suggestions you know I mean Jeff the housing division is involved in a number of things and he can he can inform you of it but if something's coming from well human relations is also yours it's um at the moment we have a reasonable idea of what items councils working on when they'll be coming along but we don't have a specific timing many of these projects are just kind of getting going as you've noticed subcommittee planning large lots Alpine Paulson can he benefit

[154:00] so as they move forward in a more concrete project plan and calendar is developed that'll start to fill in your schedule so we'll keep that up to date as we can okay so the non-negotiable things on October 24th are the 12% goal intro the Area Agency on Aging and then our initial work on the annual letter death Council yeah those are the three I've captured is your primary work items for that okay so and we agreed to two into October November do we have to formally vote on that or do you just we're okay with that I think we're fine with it you're in agreement so it's not just when we share recovery process um when the regional housing goal discussion was postponed we tried to

[155:00] organize a fair housing overview we we believe probably the best presenters for that we're from the Colorado Civil Rights Division which have a eye towards housing policy implications rather than kind of implementation on the ground of fair housing rules we still would recommend that you schedule that November 2nd meeting in November or the first or the meeting in December it's we believe staff believe it's important to have a at least a broad understanding of the fair housing implications of policy recommendations so we will if unless what I unless there's a concern about the timing we will go ahead and try and find out what their availability is and schedule that as an informational item the opportunity for a Q&A and I would recommend unless I don't know whether they would be open to the idea of the abbreviated presentation or whether they

[156:01] prefer a more in-depth one if you want it as a independent study item we'll we'll see if that's something that they're comfortable with I don't know how does everybody feel about that one I'm okay with the full scope with given there but there I am too was there full presentation yeah one one argument in favor of that for me I my personal preference would be to see it on the fourth Wednesday and November so that it can be televised because I think it's an important premiere as it were education for members of community as well angry are you good with them okay good so do we have any other calendar stuff and we'll be working on that on Friday morning I would ask if anyone knows that they'll be absent for a meeting given the current vacancy and we don't know

[157:00] when that will be filled and they need to maintain a quorum yeah please let us know as soon as you know I intend to be here remind me the October date one more time the 10th and the 24th 10th is 3 to 6 and 24th is evening meaning no problem this is going backward a little bit one thought came up that is I don't know if it's clear which is are you asking the ex officio member from Planning Board and if there is a TRG input to your priorities for the annual letter do you want that or not you don't want my clear I know we don't have the TRG rep seating here but they could they could certainly take it up and if you wanted them to so yeah and don't come around and try to give us okay yeah I think it'd be a great

[158:02] process for us I do too that's clear thank you so just a few minutes for debriefing does anybody have anything I'm really excited for letter process I think it it's much arguing as we might do I'm very open to finding consensus and I hope everyone else's I think they'll just be passionate discussions yes I think we need to lay that growl Rose bring Rock'em Sock'em to this especially maybe some strict time limits if we for pontification yeah I I would really like us to just remember to honor when somebody's speaking and not talking over the top of them are cutting them off just because we're passionate about something just giving people in you know I have to find too is not everything needs a rebuttal just allowing things to unfold and influence

[159:01] or breathe into it so yeah I mean I feel like we're getting better and better at that every meeting we have so it's nice it's also easier with three people so maybe the board I think that as we I mean we had some stuff to shake out but as we get better at it will be easier to integrate and who knows maybe with additional people it just disperses the intensity never been on a five seven member board oh good and we are adjourned eight forty one twenty minutes really can't believe it really Rockies your head [Music]