July 25, 2018 — Housing Advisory Board Regular Meeting

Transcript

[MM:SS] timestamps correspond to the YouTube recording.

[0:00] [Music] [Applause] [Music] you [Music] [Music]

[1:05] [Music] [Music] [Music]

[2:07] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music]

[3:20] [Music] [Music] [Music]

[5:28] you [Music]

[6:13] there and we would be discussing these points anyway it's just adding clarity to it anybody else nope okay so we vote now all in favor say aye okay and nays Judy nay so we have three yeas one nay so now there's the thing I'd like to add to the agenda and that's I would like us to discuss under new business whether we're cool with the person being appointed to replace Leonard being in March when new people be appointed generally for boards or if we'd like to let council know that we'd like it as soon as possible that could that be an

[7:01] item got it Thanks pinnacle do I have to say anything special do we need to vote on it okay well so somebody that first has to say they second it okay and then we'll take a vote all in favor aye all right and notice so it's unanimous okay so we'll move on to public know if we're adopting the new and then we're gonna approve the minutes for July 11th did everybody look at those anybody okay so we'll take a vote right all in favor aye Oh second - yep nope sorry second I second the motion to approve the minutes all in favor aye unanimous and now we move to public participation if you just

[8:03] recap the motion was that was just approved he's a purgatory so got it unanimous vote thank you wanted to do this thank you keep remaining to that okay so we'll move on to public participation do we have anybody signed up for public participation the old agenda I am it basically costs

[9:04] fifty bucks a day to live in Boulder these are the simple facts you might call it short-term rentals or something but that's what what it costs to live here and to to not be addressing the developers that are putting a hotel on the hill for two hundred and fifty thousand dollar parking spaces [Music] apartments today you know we have a lot of expenses and we have a lot more population and we have a lot smaller compartments that people are living in and that they want to get out to the open space for and so we have a lot of costs associated with driving up the population in this town which was this

[10:05] was supposed to be about site review and use review and a zoning change and zan said that is all you can address to the public the whole meeting was practically taken over what people talking about affordable housing and the poor seniors and the hundred units that Gary that from the Academy was proposing for his off-site proposal which is not ever defined until you actually get the proposal going through now the proposal was approved but mark resum changed his mind you might remember this crystal in 2000 on the housing I mean on the homeless shelter and it's possible for people to change their minds again this is a disaster the fire potential for up there and people getting in and out with cars with people you know ambulances coming in and people coming out that are

[11:00] that are seniors that are frail this is utterly ridiculous I listen to Karen McClaren comments she's from the Rockefeller Foundation and resilience and and it's remarkable what she said and what the council wrote it on after that landslides in Jackson Hole you know from when you down trees or take out trees and those trees are on my open space I have purchased with my friends and those trees are not gonna go down over my dead body so they can get fire insurance they need to back their project off so that they are defensible space is within the footprint that's necessary this is just unacceptable to have then Gary the first time he comes up with deliberations 30 in the morning Mason was there you know and we can't decide this late you know so then we move it ahead to alway use an ad use got pushed ahead that's a citywide issue up for affordable housing

[12:00] there's no time for anything because the City Council is doing the wrong thing and doing the wrong thing thank you then and Lynn could you state your name your full name for the record Lynn Segal thank you thank you then anybody else for public participation okay so we will close public participation and next up would be the benefit project with staff and you to present that and then certain questions you have and get your feedback or to colleagues Phil Kleiser and Carl Guyler and I'll turn it over to them good evening board members my name is Carl gallery I'm with the city planning department I'm working with Phil Kleiser on the community benefit land-use code change project so we wanted to present our progress and just an overall overview of the project

[13:00] to the housing advisory board to just get some feedback as we move forward we're gonna be stopping in with Planning Board at the beginning of August and then City Council at the end of August to receive input as we move forward so tonight we're just going to do a basic project background try to you up to speed talk about the process that's currently underway we're gonna talk about the engagement next steps of the project and then we've presented some questions to the board we've provided a memo that includes that content so just to bring the board up to speed on the project and just kind of the background of the development review process the issue of community benefit has come up for a number of years in the community on planning board and council and members of the of the community particularly with site review projects in those where there are buildings that are building over the zoning district

[14:00] maximums so that's why we're working on this just to give some background context prior to 1971 there wasn't actually a height limit in the city of Boulder but based on some buildings that were were going up particularly of that era 1960s early 1970s the the senior center that's up the street caused concern loss of views incompatible it led to a referendum that led to the 55 foot height limit that we now have that's in the city charter and since that time the city has been processing what we call height modifications through what's called the site review process now basically it allows requests above the zoning district maximum which is typically 35 feet in most of the city in some cases it's 38 feet or 40 feet but when you go above that you're in a height modification process and you can't go above 55 feet but when you get into a hype modded it requires Planning

[15:01] Board review and you have to meet the the detailed site review criteria that are in the code there is no real specific criteria related to height modifications it really just says that you have to meet certain qualitative standards in your project and show that you're compatible with adjacent buildings and and neighborhoods to get approval so that's been of concern and leading up tonight 2015 there were concerns about some of these buildings that have been and the amount of buildings going up in the communities that led to some ordinances that were passed by council to restrict where in the city you can actually ask for these height modifications so we're talking about you know downtown a portion of North Boulder uni hill around 29th Street a couple limited areas like the hospital Fraser Meadows and gun barrel are on that list right now there's a map that

[16:01] shows where you can request height modifications it also states that under certain circumstances you can ask for a height modification if more than 40% of your floor area is permanently affordable housing and then it sets up a couple other scenarios in like industrial district so I won't go into too many details that ordinance has been in effect since 2015 and has been renewed twice by Council so it was recently renewed by Council in June so that is valid until May 31st 2020 so that's in effect while we work on the community benefit project which will hopefully bring in some new standards that relate to these types of projects I have a quick question the 40% affordable permanently affordable housing at what ami ranges is that it just requires the 20% I'm not sure what the exact ami is I think I'd have to talk to housing about

[17:01] the parameters of it but they would review it for the breakdown of AMI okay so what you see on the screen right here is what I was just talking about the areas where you can request a height modification and I talked about the affordable housing and any other eligibility standards that apply so as far as the the general process we have four steps up on the screen so we're we're basically in the process of identifying community benefits and exploring them further we have a pretty good list right now we're also looking at what the triggers would be so it could be it'll likely be height mod vacation but we're also looking at some other options so I'll talk up a little bit about that we then have to jump into defining those community benefits further so affordable housing is a little more straightforward because we already have a construct for that in the city it's those other community benefits

[18:01] like affordable commercial or art spaces that are a little more difficult to quantify and figure out how we would actually codify that in the code so that's kind of the more complex territory that we're going to be walking into as we move forward and then as we we have some technical groups to talk about that we would start drafting up some regulations for feedback so what's guiding us in this is some recently adopted Community Benefit related policies that are in the comp plan so the comp plan was adopted by council in the fall of last year and it included three new policies that talk about this so we have enhanced community - development which identified the the community benefits that we're currently exploring which we have underlined on the screen we have a special one related just for building height basically says that we're we didn't do it before now when you do a height modification the expectation is that there would be some sort of community benefit it also makes

[19:00] it clear that thermally affordable housing is really kind of at the forefront of what we would expect in most projects that that seek Community Benefit and an additional intensity so again the triggers we're looking at our building height going over the height limit of the district scenarios where they might ask for more density that is currently permitted in the zone would trigger community benefit we might even look at getting a floor area trigger right now we don't you know there could be a very large project that may not go over the height limit that folks might find needs to provide community benefits so it might be like an FA R trigger that we would look at and also there might be rezoning where people are rezoning to a zone that allows for a higher intensity that could trigger community benefit so we'd have to create new criteria for rezoning 's related to this so basically what this shows is that you know you have

[20:00] your traditional building that's at two or three storeys in the city if you were to go an extra two storeys one or two storeys you'd be in the realm of Community Benefit and we would have a menu of options with different types of community benefit that would have to be met to do that so as part of this exploration we've been looking at a number of case studies we have 15 right now that we're focusing on a lot of details a lot of a different array of different ways of approaching community benefit most of the ones that we see that have community benefit are California communities what we've found is that a lot of the community benefits that some communities require are similar to what we get through the site review process now in Boulder but there are some that are similar to what we're looking at now as part of this community benefit project so a lot of these communities use height floor area and density as triggers so we're looking at

[21:00] the different ways that they're doing that affordable housing sustainable design green building publicly accessible open spaces and arts and cultural uses our community benefits that we see in a lot of these communities what we found is a lot of these communities have community benefit programs that are really meant to incentivize development in their downtown's I think boulders a little bit different we're gonna be looking more citywide we found that some communities do negotiations on a case-by-case basis this leads to a lot of unpredictability in the process I think some of the guidance we've got in this process is to try to make things more predictable make it more like performance standards and make it very plain in the code how you get additional intensity some examples that we're looking at are where they have bonuses that are quite a bit bigger than what we get in Boulder like in Austin or Seattle we're talking you know multiple storey buildings in the

[22:01] downtown's we're just talking about one or two stories here in Boulder but there's still good examples to look at I think the communities like for that we're seeing right now our most akin to Boulder at least provide us with the best guidance our Austin Texas has a range of community benefits that are very similar to what we're exploring Zoar I'm gonna be looking at that further and we were also finding that Santa Monica has a community benefits program that seems very similar to where we might go with our program in terms of the community benefits that they're looking at but also the scales of buildings that they are looking at in their community so we're gonna continue developing those case studies as we move forward and and derive some ideas from those and I'm gonna pass it over to Phil Phil place their comforts of planning thanks so much for your time tonight and we this case studies document that Carl just explained it's a pretty lengthy and detailed document but we'll be doing

[23:00] kind of an executive summary and including that with the Planning Board and council packets that we can also share with you all when that is becomes available so as Carl mentioned the comprehensive plan adopted last year did include that policy 1.11 around community benefits and some of the benefits included in that policy were quite specific like affordable housing while others were a bit more topic based and a bit broader like social services environmental preservation and so on and so I we kind of see this program and the public process that we want to have going forward as really refining those so that we can come up with very specific use definitions and criteria from that case studies document we just wanted to maybe just throw a few on the screen so you can just see how some of the other communities define and establish metrics for those specific benefits and so we have up here just it you know some on-site housing with the City of Austin outdoor recreation facilities in Portland and arts and culture and Berkeley and what we're

[24:01] seeing you know along around these communities is that they all you know define what the benefit is pretty specifically many of them if not all include specific metrics that are proportional to development request or at least a way to get to that metric and so some communities leave it until you get to the development application to develop a pro forma and determine what the community benefit requirement is and then it's others like the City of Austin as you'll see when we share the document also go into some enforcement provisions kind of what happens if the site becomes non-compliant and stops providing that community benefit so there's a lot of considerations I think we have to make with each of these and so it's a it's a complex project but we're looking forward to it the very the the final thing that we wanted to mention was that quantifying community benefits and so at the end of the day this program would seek to ensure that certain development applications provide community benefits that are proportional

[25:00] to the intensity and the impacts of the project and one of the ways and really the most popular and and standard way to get to how much community benefit is through an economic study and that study will benefit the city in the community in that next year as we're looking at the final program those policy decisions can be informed by an understanding of current local economics and so what we're doing right now that we wanted to provide you an update on is a very narrowly focused economic study that we're gonna have flushed out by Planning Board and Council but we're not quite there yet really only looking at affordable housing and affordable commercial space and so what we wanted to do is kind of put our toe in the water and see kind of what should we be expecting from these types of projects giving a certain set of assumptions and so in this case and we'll forward the study to when it's completed we're looking at five different development scenarios all in the BR one district and that's around the twenty ninth Street Mall area they're all you know have some

[26:01] common set of assumptions like their two acres in size and what we're doing with this analysis is to determine if the city were to grant a height modification up to that 55 feet as well as additional residential density what could we expect in terms of a return of community benefit given the current economic climate so what could we require up to the point of making the project not feasible anymore so the five scenarios that we're looking at we're looking at a base scenario just to talk just to see what's the return to the developer if the current regulations are followed height everything we're also looking at a scenario where that height modification is approved up to 55 feet and there's additional density on the site but the applicant does not include Community Benefit kind of as another benchmark of the two bookends and then we're looking at two residential scenarios taller buildings more density with one of those

[27:00] residential scenarios for affordable housing being using federal funding and then finally the fifth scenario we're looking at is how much affordable commercial space could we expect from such a project and so we don't have the final numbers ready yet from the consultant but we've at least gotten some initial feedback from them and the initial feedback we've gotten is that the economics may support a community benefits program but with the current assumptions we have on the pran this particular analysis the margins are pretty slim even when we are only requiring one community benefit like just affordable housing or just the affordable space commercial space when in reality you know we'd like to do more than one perhaps affordable housing and another benefit and so in terms of magnitude of what we're seeing in this analysis is we're seeing some additional on-site housing so one of the the affordable housing scenario is looking at an additional 6% of on-site units after they meet their base requirements through the fee and LU process using the

[28:02] light tech federal funding we're seeing about 33% of the residential units on the site being affordable and when we look at a project without affordable housing and just looking at affordable commercial space what we're seeing right now is about 7% of the floor area being a deed restricted affordable commercial space which in this case is about 10,000 square feet in this building and so again we're we're providing comments and we're they're gonna they're gonna respond to those and we'll have a final report in the next couple of weeks that we'd love to share we are gonna expand that to be a much larger report once we're looking at the mend the full menu of community benefits and so there's a lot more analysis to do but we wanted to at least start that conversation now this is really just the last slide a little bit about engagement and next steps you know we started with a lot of focus groups we've had a lot of conversations and they've been pretty interesting many people really seem to agree that among

[29:01] all those different options for community benefits affordable housing is really a top priority a lot of folks are looking at particularly the building height piece as a way to contribute to low and moderate income rentals and residences in the focus group sessions there's also you know a wide variety of viewpoints and thankfully you know a lot some there was some consensus about kind of a balanced approach of looking at incentives that are high enough and good enough to incentivize development but also keeping in mind the community's values and the context of that of that project around the neighborhood and so on and to that and you know context context context the first comment we've received in our very first focus group was less about the number of affordable units and more about how the project fits in the neighborhood and so that's leading us those that's kind of resurfaced through the project and so

[30:00] we'll probably be looking at some kind of design standards and other things too in the in the community dialogue where we're heading we're looking to have a larger event after the council study session we're assembling some staff and community groups to begin kind of brainstorming some different options reconvening some of those focus groups and trying to really just get out into the community and keep the conversation going ultimately wrapping up the project at around the third quarter of next year and again we'll be going the planning board on August 16th with these and other materials and city council on August 28th and so with that said the questions that we wanted to pose to have tonight was if you have any questions that we can talk through if you have any suggestions as we're thinking through kind of what a successful program might look like we'd love you know in this very very early stage of the planning process we'd love to kind of engage you all and get your thoughts on that and and you know and then how should we be

[31:00] engaging hab as we move forward thank you for your time yeah so I think the first round is for questions so if anybody has questions for them before we go into like a mixture of question and discussion yeah so I mean this is a great great opportunity for process but what I'm seeing is that we typically do in two questions first directly for the board and then once questions are through on that first round then we can go into discussion piece on it so does anybody have any questions for them go ahead Judi okay okay thank you that was really interesting and I appreciate it my question is about context and you address that Phil as your name so you address that in the end when you were talking about neighborhoods and there's the context of community Ben there's the

[32:01] silo of community benefit that the city is very interested in and then there's also the silo of neighborhood and sub community planning the city is also very interested in and I can see how well I guess I'll just ask the question can you talk a little bit more about that context that meshing yeah that's a great point I think they're all connected so the comp plan talks a bit about as we're moving into this new era of sub community and area planning there there's going to be a kind of a direct linkage to community benefits with those processes and so we would expect that future plans would identify similar to the north Baldr sub community plan identify what community benefits would be most appropriate for that area and that would then inform either what's required what we would what we would ask at the time of application alternatively you know we've also heard from other boards like the University Hill and others as well as Rose residents that

[33:02] not it's not a one-size-fits-all sort of approach and so you know there's a question out there of do we need to identify specific priorities and specific areas and that would get kind of complicated but it's been brought up and I don't know if that answers your question but yes thank you I did have one question go ahead okay so during the presentation you mentioned the things that might actually set this off like you know trigger a community benefit study and you mentioned density might be one of them but without rezoning you know you said rezoning might be one you said density might be one I'm a little bit confused as to how density can be one without you know when it within a zone that it's not allowed that that doesn't make much sense to me well I think it

[34:00] would be a scenario where it would probably be a high-density residential zone and it would be a scenario where there's a density maximum based on dwelling units per acre like we were talking about the BR one for instance I think it's 2023 dwelling units per acre is the max it would just be like if you go above that there's no zone that specifies a density higher than that anyway so I think we would be in in a community benefit review territory okay I think the rezoning is more like if it's like a lower intensity zone and they're going to like a medium density or they're going for a medium density to hiding so that maybe that makes a lot more sense you're saying in our highest density zone if we were to want to go above well what the highest proposed density already is then this would be a truth right and there are specific scenarios in the zoning code in certain zones where you can ask for density bonuses it's pretty pretty limited right

[35:00] now but so one of the outcomes of this might be you know changing some of the zones where it would trigger community benefit under different scenarios in different zones I mean we're trying to go for simplicity here but that could be an outcome yeah yeah I suppose I'm going back to the context piece a little bit initially and then also the flexibility of those contextual needs let's say that we see a monk's community benefit and I'm just curious are there any of the other cities that you're studying that have a relative amount of flexibility in that process I think quite a few offer flexibility through that through the negotiated process like I said there's a there's a trade-off there I think some communities want that level of flexibility and they

[36:00] have a legal staff that assists in a lot of these negotiations with developers to try to determine how a community benefit is commensurate with the bonus they're getting the problem with that is that it's not as predictable one of the criticisms were hearing in the communities when an application comes in there it's not very predictable what the outcome is going to be and that our goal is to try to create that level of predictability there is one example of a case that you were looking at I actually think it's I think it's Palo Alto actually where they have a negotiated process and there's a lot of criticisms about that because it's unpredictable yeah I guess that's what I'm getting at from the kind of from the developer standpoint it's like oh my god what am i stepping into here but on the other hand we don't just want a bunch of basketball courts philippa right but there's also like some of the case studies were looking to have a tiered process where it's very strict at tier 1 and then it it's a little more prescribed at tier 2

[37:02] and then if it's a community benefit that's not well defined then you're in tier 3 and that's negotiated so it's kind of on it there's a yeah an array ok thanks I did have did have one question you talked about the economic study and were you going to look at the pollard site I know they did a economic study on the Palmer site even though the city owns the land but I'm sure you can adjust it it was just wondering if you were gonna learn from that Jeff is on our team reviewing that and so I may ask if Jeff can respond so that the analysis is was done by the Kaiser Marston associates firm built on the information in part that was generated for the yield study and the economic study at pollard like that yeah it's

[38:01] substantive Lee done already thank you you did incorporate information from that yeah any more questions okay so let's go on to discussion and the next question which might be bored to have to contribute to a successful community benefit so we can go into discussion on that just go down the road okay I keep turning it off some people won't hear me eating okay let me ask you this question or you are you looking for consensus right now of the board you just asking to hear our individual opinions individual opinions I think is fine okay so obviously most of us are going to have the individual opinion that the greatest community benefit is affordable housing and we'd be just as happy if that was the vast majority but beyond that I'm interested in the context piece

[39:03] being a real part of the fabric of of what you come up with it will save the developers time and heartache and money if they get a sense of what the neighborhood feels before they start it will save the neighborhood anxiety and aggravation and it'll save the city time and having to referee between the two so if you can build that in as a part of the plan of how this would proceed you know give suggestions to Council on how it would best proceed I think that would help you get the biggest bang for your buck that's Mike thank you I have three or four pieces so pare your writing tools okay so first one I really think the ami must be specifically designated for any project such as this I'm gonna keep bringing this up every single time Geoff you're gonna get really tired of it this

[40:01] is a big board discussion that we've been having so our current system of approaching ami I don't feel as working for permanently affordable housing so potentially going lower on the scale when we're talking about the unit's that are being built I think is one thing we have to look into the menu of options sort of idea I love that you know you can pick and choose what you think might be best to some degree but along with Judi affordable housing I think is obviously the number one issue in this community right now very closely followed by affordable commercial space and as much as I love the gazebos here and Boulder I think those are really the only priorities that should be addressed until those problems are solved I think boulders already such a desirable place that it's not gonna matter how many more

[41:01] basketball courts parks art installations we put up and while all those things are super important that's not the problem we're facing right now I have a real preference of permanently affordable ownerships over rentals simply because we're already running into problems with permanently affordable rentals and making sure they're permanently affordable housing actually allowing someone to buy the house not only helps them a little more in the long term keeping their own money but also addresses the issue of dealing with people who can put a parking space for sale in a permanently affordable unit at a higher rate than it should be things along those lines it just automatically keeps those off the table I think that might be it

[42:04] I'm green yeah I think I'm gonna kind of go a little bit modified on what Adam was just saying about the benefit package are the available options so to speak I think I agree with him that we have some very focused things that we're trying to solve and housing being this board's mandate I think is a big piece of it so I got to say I think it might make sense to give a tiered system in a sense there also that we may have some core choices that are at the top of the menu the main course but then there's some appetizer dessert items that go with that maybe and the reason for me on that one is that we're not just trying to create housing units but we are trying to create community and so some

[43:01] of those people pieces might bolster it and we can kind of put those together but overall I agree that there should be a kind of a core package I would suggest and then maybe we can say well you're kind of there but not quite so how about you throw in that basketball court I don't know what's it do you want anything you know I'm gonna get a shot at this a planning board so I want to listen to what you all have to say so I'm really right along with what everybody's saying and to me my top priority it would be housing so absolutely but I understand where Jack's coming from as well is that I'd like to see a real strong emphasis on some Community Planning and and focusing in on the smaller neighborhoods so that we can deal with some of the issues around transportation etc so to me always the top tier affordable housing sub-community transportation I have a

[44:00] problem with the in lieu fees for any of this fan of them really and I almost feel like they should be D and sent devised so like if you're gonna do that I'd like to see them a little bit more painful than if you were actually gonna install something so to me that's just how I kind of look at those and then it must have been about six months or so ago I can't remember I was listening to a podcast about art installations but how some of the cities across the country now are dealing with these kind of crises of keeping up art installations I'm sure you've probably heard it somewhere so I'm I'm kind of fascinated by who's gonna keep that up and how that would be managed if we go into any of these is who would be required to maintain them so that the city doesn't find themselves burdened with having to maintain a bunch of you know like we've had those pocket parks you know around the city that are nice but I think they've also caused some issues for people maintaining them so there that's

[45:02] all I have as far as the discussion goes on it anybody else want anything one more thing on the menu of options the one thing I do now is businesses are very good at finding what the cheapest option is so making sure that the options are indeed compatible and interchangeable in a way in quality you know that's super important to me yes Judy I just like to say since I spoke first that it sounds like I want to associate myself with everything everybody else that do I agree with the things I hadn't brought up great so let's go over to how does the board prefer to be engaged throughout the progress of the project so I guess that would be kind of our conversation and if anybody has any ideas how you'd like to continue the engagement in this process primarily I'd like to see what they come

[46:00] up with with the sort of answers to the things that we opposed our concerns and I just like to see them addressed directly I just think that as the pieces specifically surrounding housing start coming together obviously that we would be just engaged with those particular pieces most directly and can get feedback back to you guys on that Judy maybe I should just leave it on and quit eating yes there what everyone said but I also think to be more specific that it would be great if somewhere in this process towards the end we had an avenue to give our feedback to Council mm-hmm so I'd actually like to even go one step further and potentially use our special committee on this I'd like to

[47:00] make a motion that if somebody would want to participate and be a direct liaison with it so I I feel like then that way we're also following the process it's gonna inform some of our affordability and it doesn't fall through the cracks and it's short term in nature versus a long term committee so it'd be just something that could be updated and having one person anybody else in favor of that idea I think that's a great idea I think we should make the official vote at the next meeting so it's not - okay so we're gonna make a motion to table Mason I have a question of the staff does does this process have a process subcommittee like some of the other processes where you've had people from camp couple people from Council couple people from Planning Board etc that could come out of the discussion at Planning Board and council you know I think it worked well in those like the comp plan and for example we have our internal processes

[48:02] of executive sponsors and things like that but but nothing like you've described anybody else so I think then what the motion is is to table it correct so we I'd make a motion to table it until August 22nd for a vote on a special committee on a vote of whether or not we want to form a special committee and anybody be on it okay in favor right so unanimous vote and we'll table it until August 22nd for a vote thank you so much thank you thank you and the plan was to kind of come back on a periodic basis keep you all informed and engaged thank you thank you okay so great where the head of the schedule a little bit and next we have matters from the board first matter would be invoking Robert's

[49:02] Rules just to make it a formal process we're gonna do a motion to move towards Robert's Rules does anybody want to have any discussion around it before we vote on it I just wanted to mention something I looked at the bylaws and it can be done two ways and it can be done by the Board Chair invoking it or it can be by majority vote and we can also suspend it at some future time if we want so I will then go ahead and move that we proceed which were pretty close to doing anyway right now that we proceed with Robert's Rules of Order anybody else have discussion I do have one one small thing if you go with it and that's fine most boards do you might want to get some training and I was thinking years ago Dicky Lee hauling horse she's such an expert on Roberts rules and procedures

[50:02] and I know she's retired but there might be somebody else that could do it but if you were interested and if other city boards might be interested maybe the city could set up a more detailed study session type of format yeah thank you I'm not that the motion yet I was just gonna say is that I personally I love I've done a lot of research over the last week on this and that I really like the idea of the framework of Robert's Rules and I do like I think it's great for us to start out and have and something really nice and solid to kind of lean in to to get our feet under us and then maybe relax a little bit as we move move forward so I'm totally in favor of this and something we can revisit as we move forward as we get more familiar with it I also agree with you regarding more training on it it's something Jeff and I were talking about about how the board was initially set up

[51:03] and definitely this process for those of us who'd never done it before would have been fantastic so it's something that we're all learning and it's great and I also think that in if we vote to have the facilitator for August 8th its process is something that we can also ask about if it's something we feel like we really want a little bit more formal training in it as well so then we want to do a formal motion of if there's nothing else we can do a formal motion of invoking Robert's Rules I move so moved someone all in favor please have a second I think don't you second any I can't suck up myself I made the motion all in favor aye and it's unanimous okay so it's going how is it so it's a unanimous for invoking Robert's Rules you okay I made

[52:01] the motion okay I just want to get the language down right so I may have made the motion and Duty seconded it and we are unanimous for Robert's Rules fantastic so on to you committee reports and so we have two different ones from standing and special and just for a little bit of definition standing would be permanent in nature which we have already agreed to an engagement committee and a Regional Housing Committee so we're we've got a couple under both of those and then we have special which is short-term in nature and we don't have anybody assigned to that yet so we'll start out with engagement committee if you you have a letter to the camera that we had pushed off from the last meeting to this one so there's a couple of things I'll start I'll leave that for a minute and I'll start I had interacted with Zack who's the communications person for us with the city to ask how the city could help us with things like next-door or whatever

[53:00] for the project on August 22nd and he said there's many things he can do but in order for him to do it we have to know what the goal is so he needs to have the goal stated so what we're wanting to do is have the public comment on August 22nd about their housing issue and their can and their solutions for fixing it hopefully when one issue one solution and what we then want to do with that and he said it could be as simple as saying that what we want to do with it is use it as let me see what I have here it could be to use the public input to identify trends and housing that the board might address at a at a meeting or consider for the work plan so he just wants us to have a goal that he can stayed in it and so I'd like people

[54:02] the first thing I'd like is people to discuss a different goal or say that goals fine or talk about what our goal is in doing that media can you repeat what he stated again yeah and this was what he suggested it could be to use the public input to identify trends in housing that the board might address at a meeting or consider for the work plan I think trends or needs and/or needs I was I was just thinking as I heard that trends I don't know that so much trends we're looking for but it's we're looking for solutions is I mean it that's part of what we're trying to dig up from this right we're trying to actually get people to start coming to us with their concepts as I was yes you know the other day so if somehow we can get that language in there so that we're specific about what we're actually you know

[55:00] asking for that would be great I would agree down to you just kind of brought that up I think originally what we were looking for was that it's great to hear what the issues are that are coming up but what we're trying to solve for is unique and interesting ideas and give a platform for people to come forward with potential solutions more than just us sitting up here trying to think of all the solutions so I'm happy to frame it any way and those are all great right now I just have to use public input to identify issues and solutions and housing that the board might address we can just leave it there I guess we don't have to go on beyond that that the board might address but we can say creative solutions or I mean we can have it be whatever you want I'm concerned about the word address because I don't think that we would be able to address everybody's concerns and I don't if we're managing expectations I don't want people to expect that we'd be able to solve the housing so might explore or

[56:01] might consider I like to explore okay winter explorer I'll go with explorer can you say it again huh to use the public input input to identify issues and solutions in housing that the board might explore I'm for explore okay and can I interrupt the process just a little bit this is a fantastic example of why if we can put these motions on the agenda beforehand and that goes out we can consider it and anybody could make modifications and then we're salt more solid in this process so this is a fantastic example of of that yes and it might that might not always work of course because some things might come up too late but sure that's a good goal then the other things for publicity that we had talked about doing I'd like to get do we need to vote

[57:02] on the fest I was just gonna say it why don't we put this into motion have it seconded and vodka I move that we add the wording or why we're doing this that our goal is to use the public in the input to identify issues and solutions and housing that the board might explore second all in favor okay so we have a motion from Judy seconded by Adam to use the language as our goal statement for August 22nd cool so then the next thing is we have to vote on the other ideas for publicity that Adam and I have in mind doing it besides the letter to the editor and besides what Zach can do I guess I should first ask are you okay then in that vote that whatever Zach and Adam and I decide for next door and for whatever else heat the city can do

[58:01] you're good with because we're only have one month now and that you'll trust us that the wording will be for clarity purposes you're talking about any promoting that you would do using that as angle got it yes I'm okay with that what the only modification or amendment I'd like to ask for it is that it comes from the engagement group the engagement committee with the boulder housing Advisory Board mm-hmm okay so now from the whole board brain stuff okay it's like cool yes so we have a motion to on the table to allow any promoting from this goal statement to happen with an amendment that we have to vote on first that it comes from the housing advisory board engagement committee so first on the amendment then all in favor

[59:00] of promotions coming from the housing advisory board engagement committee I unanimous and then the motion go ahead I'm not entirely clear on what coming from the engagement committee means many of the vehicles the city might use to publicize this would be standing City means of communication and promoting that aren't controlled by or really from the engagement committee so as I was thinking I let me suggest excuse me what I think you're doing is empowering trying to empower the engagement committee to come up with a a notice and promotion plan for your desired outcome of community engagement on the 22nd and you're voting to authorize them to develop and implement that yes and I think I would add that when the letter

[60:01] goes to the daily camera it comes from the engagement committee first is just a whole list of our names Adam so also this just establishes if anyone wants to look back and they don't like something that we wrote these two are not responsible or whatever we wrote and we're just establishing that here amongst the public thanks for the clarification so okay you're gonna write just a clarification you're gonna write a letter to the Daily Camera then a letter to the editor and and the board isn't gonna review it or you're not going to send it cost over into a confusing area I was talking just about what Zack does right then okay so the letter to the other there's a separate issue and if you want what Zack puts out to say the engagement committee we will do that unless he can't I don't want to have to go through another vote unless as you said it's just the housing advisory board and then you would just

[61:00] have to trust Adam and I that we wouldn't say anything wild okay so I think there's three parts to that what I'm hearing is anything that comes from Zack I think should come from Zack in the city because it'll come under their banner at the next door on next door and stuff from what I've seen on social media and then the second piece is I do want to see the letters before they go out I just think they should come from the engagement committee as you write them so like that letter ignite that you had us review you know the one you sent to us for that okay so then we need I think we need to opt out so that's the motion we just passed because this is just for Zack and you now are saying you think it should come from Zack in the city and that's all I was asking in the motion see what I'm saying so that or the I believe the motion that we passed because we didn't get to the second one yet was just for

[62:00] Zack in the goal correct to allow promoting from a goal statement within a minute that comes from your engagement committee so she used the goal language agreed to use public input to identify issues and solutions in housing that the board might explore yeah and that one was from Zach correct yeah but we now have it say from the public we now have it say from the engagement committees what we just voted on we added was that included in the on that right right there's no engagement committee tickets understand okay so good so then so then the second thing is the other types of publicity that Adam and I talked about that we would like us to just be able to do is using the template from whatever we decide for the letter to the editor we go ahead and do things like find all the groups we can possibly think of in Boulder and email

[63:01] them email all the people who have emailed us about housing issues so that they know about it and that's all email those both those groups for publicity so to be clear then we're talking about the engagement community taking that letter you drafted and reaching out to everybody you can find with it not taking exactly that letter but taking similar quite similar that you'll just go okay we trust you nothing that's not in the letter would be in the language so then go ahead and make a motion and we can okay I move that the board votes to let the engagement committee do the publicity of emailing groups and emailing people who've already contacted emailed us using the letter to the editor as a template for the August 22nd

[64:00] event that's real clear enough everybody yeah seconded okay all in favor aye unanimously okay now the third thing is a letter to the editor and I don't know exactly how it got on our list because the last time we did a letter to the editor which everyone was happy about we put it out and then we asked people to respond if they had any change as they wanted to and then they didn't and then we just sent the letter out now I have had one suggestion for change from you shock which was a really good one and there's one thing I want to change add to it but and I'm happy to read the whole letter again but those were the only two comments on it so I'm not sure if every time we want to do a letter to the editor we have to go through this complicated to process but if it is it is so I'm gonna ask you to

[65:01] clarify what is it that you're asking do you need do you need Claire do you want are you asking for permission to you not have to do this do you want to make a motion mmm I just want to have a discussion on if people feel it's necessary time if people feel it is necessary we can read the whole thing and talk about it if not I can talk about the wordsmithing that Jacque suggested and the thing I wanted to add either way I'm fine I just want to ask crystal I'm just curious other boards deal with this type of thing what have you seen we you should I mean we've always used the city it's a little bit different but we've always used the city processes and it's you mean the city Public Engagement team that are part Department in part from the manager's

[66:00] office but on special projects it'll be handled like the comp plan it's such a huge project so the staff had a whole component so the board doesn't participate by sending out our own notices just because we're part of the larger process already and they handle all that and just for clarification Zack is fine about letters to the editor but the city doesn't do that we do that ourselves and I think our engagement piece is different than the other existing boards that are out there so I definitely see where our two lines are on this do you want me to read that would it help if I just read the letter and then said which jacque's interest was enough for me I've read the letter and I think you did a great job it's fine for me I'm more interested in this how we're going to set the standard what's the precedence yeah so just real

[67:02] quick what I think we're doing right now is you know we normally send it out to everyone everyone gives their edits and I think we should just discuss any edits here that's it approver now to prove those edits and then in the process okay I do you want to make a motion then for this letter and not for it happening all the time or do you want to separate those two out and do you remember what Judy would say I would say for this and all letters that we send it out on the have email people have an opportunity to edit and then we will take those edits because there may be other times before this besides this that we do publicity okay so so should I go to do we need to yes you know I do think you have to be a little bit careful with the open meeting issue about the edits and I think of it

[68:03] in context of the Planning Board the annual letters to City Council we're very careful we'll all send it to Cori who will then give it to the committee to work with or have one person compile it all so it doesn't go back so there's not a discussion going back and forth that says I like this edit but I don't like that that's what we know it's a little bit cumbersome we've done that we've said when I've sent both letters out that when we've already done and this one I have said don't email me I thought in the decor tank and that's good I think that's good practice I think I would suggest just one little addition this is that we give ourselves a time frame for the letter being presented so through Cory whoever drafts the letter initially it goes to Cory there's a time frame that we need to have X days to review the

[69:01] letter and and give our edits back to Cory so that we just know what that is so we avoid the thing of letter coming out last minute and and not really having that so I would just suggest something that says that any letters from the engagement committee that will go out to the public be offered for editing to all board members through Cory within 72 hours of the next meeting and at that meeting we vote on releasing that letter or do we not want to go through this and why I'd rather not do it that way is I'd rather do it the way we did it the first letter is because we might need to get something out really fast and if we have to wait till the next meeting yeah so this we gave the letter out a good three four weeks beforehand and just to elaborate a little as I remember it your agreement

[70:01] on the last letter was that if the edits that staff received were contradictory or hard to reconcile if they weren't just copy edits that we would respond by saying this is a matter you'll have to take up in public meeting and so and that's the common understanding that's yep and my only other issue that I'm not sure how we could address is if somebody's unavailable or if you know if we're gonna say 72 hours and somebody went into the mountains which I am known to do for you know a couple of days without checking anything is how do we make sure I you know you always ask us for yeah just some type of a confirmation that it was received you know just saying got it you're good or whatever something along those lines so maybe if we pinky swear is that something that robert's rules has as a pinky where and and it doesn't have to

[71:00] go to quarry it could go to judy the point is how you operated last time with making sure that there wasn't this conversation going on but one one planning board has handled it or Cindy the administrative layfon has handled that but she doesn't she hasn't done the edited edits she just collected them for us so I think we've got a good round discussion on I do we feel like we're ready to move towards a motion on it just need to establish that time frame still well and this gets back to your piece I think you know for me it seems like 72 hours is probably a reasonable you're going before the meeting before the next meeting right yeah I well I want to I want to pull back on that a little bit without that timeframe worse I suppose before the release then

[72:00] because if we're not gonna bring them all to the meetings and I kind of like what Jeff was just saying it's like if we can leave this in staff's hands a little bit if he sees you know if staff is seeing something which is one reason why maybe Corey is a better space for this to go to if if staff is in seeing something that they're like oh wait a minute we got heads biting a little bit here and this has to go to public meeting then they could make that call for us so would you be comfortable and that's good and to give enough time on the end for us to do the publicity that in a timely manner if we just say something like rather than having to do with before a meetings just say something like once it's put out by Corey three days five days prior to the release and bigger picture on this as well is ultimately the goal will be for all of us to move to nothing happening the agendas out so one week before our

[73:02] meetings when it gets published we've tabled our discussions till we get here so that staff has plenty of time our agenda is accurate so that's a bigger picture item but just so that we're aware of that but I agree with you on to move quicker 72 hours goes to Cory any budding of the head then it's that's our ripcord it gets paused until a vote and of course that doesn't mean that Adam and I will send it to the paper to the whatever right then we may have a different timing that we want to do but then we'll have it approved and maybe what you do in the letter is write the details at the bottom plan on submitting at this time I move that all letters to the editor and similar types of publicity that need board approval be

[74:02] sent to Cory as soon as she puts it out the board will have 72 hours to respond Cory will send it to us to me and Adam and I said all I need to say unless unless substance hit edits I need to be made okay by staff by staffs recommendation right okay perfect said okay did you get something like that Cory all right so Judy made a motion anybody two seconds all in favor all right okay so now that's a really lengthy one otherwise I would say Judy made a motion and Adam second did it and we all said okay so we have a couple there were a couple of changes the first we can't do teller

[75:02] we do the agenda review so I'd like to put it off and that's the time because if we decide to have the we're having the public participation that's not what I mean we talk about when to tell people to come so we wouldn't have them sitting around doing whatever but if we're changing the way we do presentations that changes the time the meeting with 30 as we had agreed to if indeed we'll be done with the presentation that we're having before or whatever okay so I move to table that until we do the agenda review at the end great great one second does that make sense Cory good so later in the agenda under e under agenda review we have number we're gonna discuss 822 and we'll

[76:02] work out the details then of timing for that agenda so we're just tabeling it till later in this meeting the second part that I want to put in and then I'll get to it jacques recommended is I forgot to say anything in this letter about you can watch the meeting live on channel 8 and I think that's a really good or archived and I think that's a really good thing to put in the paper a great know Jacques do you want to say what you're you know you're gonna have to refresh there's a lot happened between then and now okay so Jacque suggested that we also put something in there and we can craft that line together if you want but something in there that he felt that if people get up and speak that would be fabulous but we want they might have more meaty information or we might not be able to get everything we can and we'd like to

[77:01] request that if they can they also put it in writing an email a test and I thought that was a good idea yeah I kind of the the teacher in me almost wants to say that if you're doing the presentation it has to be something that's substance is enough I'm trying to parse the presentations a little bit and I know we're public engagement we want that input but we also want it to be substantive so in doing that I was trying to think okay can we actually encourage those who have a significant idea about how to solve some of our problems because I am concerned about it will be more issues than solutions and so I don't know but I was trying to get some way to say how can we suggest that we're really looking for for the

[78:00] solutions piece so I'm gonna piggyback on that and just say that in the writing of this it really needs to stress in all of our writings that we're piloting so using piloting and encouraging solution orientated speeches or participation so that it it discourages or limits just the or one for one or one for two for every issue come with us the one or two solutions maybe that's what we call it instead of ignite it's maybe it's a twofer you know something fun something that's catchy you're the marketing guy yeah you know like some kind of catchy name that's a you know a two-for-one one-two punch or something like that give us a one-two punch and you know hit this with the two goods to the one so I think that's a really good idea that particular thing might be best for

[79:01] another time because we're very word limited in the word count is like strictly limited and I was thinking that for jobs piece we could just say we'd love to have you email us your extended solutions something like how does that sound your detailed yeah extended feels long to me versus detailed and poignant you're pointing it you're concise okay so how do you want to be I'm happy with anything even just full solution or it's not fully crafted solution well I don't I don't want to make people feel that it Minds not thoughtfully crafted you know just how about your detail your more detailed solutions would that work or is that are you afraid that we'll get too long how about I mean I think just to get that sense across okay that we're

[80:01] looking for detailed that we're solution oriented okay we could use what City Council said the other night and you're apparently well thought-out let's go with detailed solution and then my last question is you had just said you would rather the letter B from Adam amis and have engagement AB engagement I think that is a good way to present these have engagement committee yes ten words so thank you yeah because I also think that in the future if the committee members change or anything like that it's still the the context of the committee is the same and people know what to look for versus an individual person's name it does save us words okay great hey boys so thank you do we need any other motion in that we need two motion just to approve approve the amended changes yes yeah okay I make a

[81:03] motion to approve the amended changes who are for our letter to the editor for the August 22nd event a second all right all in favor so Adam made a motion for the letter to the editor for August 22nd i seconded it and all unanimous great so anything else from engagement no new business no new business great Regional Housing Committee we need to appoint a second representative on that would anybody like to volunteer as a secretary Zenta t'v just to be clear the the representative is the remaining correct presented was yes our second second representative on that and so yes we need a second I would like to volunteer

[82:01] for that anybody else anybody want to arm-wrestle Mason yes committee members because I really just assigned to them yeah yeah yeah if there were any it would be clearer if you voted but I don't think it's necessary there's only one person who's interested okay so just to be clear then they're the two people that will be representatives for the Regional Housing Committee will be Jacques and Mason it's just for further clarification there's no discussion there's no dissent none of that check it all good yeah okay I didn't want to if I may just do a quick kind of update on the committee okay that is now no longer committee 1 but I just I have had more discussion with Kristin Heiser yeah

[83:01] I haven't told you yet but we are having a meeting honestly she told me she did she got to you okay a meeting on the 16th with Kristin so we can go over that and and take a look at what's going on there so we're just looking into their proposal at this point I need to lean in and and we'll have a meeting on the 16th with Kristin to get a kind of update on how that was formed how they came to the 12% number and then kind of see where where how it can fit in and help out great and so to piggyback on that then I'm in our next meeting on August 22nd which we'll talk about agenda wise is adding it to an update on that date at the moment it's currently scheduled for your September me 4th Wednesday and September meeting under our normal agenda items we will always have a committee update here but

[84:01] you're talking about the consideration of a recommendation regulation right yeah sorry yes which will have to put on our work plan which will be talking about which I think you already did correct yes all right so now we don't have anything under special or short term and we can move into unfinished business do we want to take a break now or do we want to keep going I'll move for a short recess okay so five minutes 30 we need a second in a but I think it second all in favor all right I so five minutes we'll 30 to see why we have these brakes

[85:24] how was your coleman job did you Oh what is that guy's name again which ones oh hell yeah okay so um and I want to apologize I've been totally overwhelmed with life for not being a better contact with you but Joelle is currently working and I know

[86:00] that he is maxed right now but I think I'm gonna talk to him tomorrow I'll see him tomorrow I'm going to talk to him tomorrow about trying to get over there and I'm gonna say what we're gonna do is are you yeah so it's Friday a good day their morning around we could do afternoon on Friday

[87:19] Jol heeis whistles yeah it's pretty awesome all right I'm gonna put that in my calendar actually would you email me Lin yeah shoot me an email or a text with that

[90:32] 30 where's Cory ready for us are you ready thank you I'll show you a picture okay so we're moving on to unfinished business and the first two pieces that we have our clarifications from staff so this first item is around the question

[91:02] of the wording of the feedback from the housing advisory board on the issue of rent increases that was contained in the June 28th information packet item to City Council and at their last meeting there I believe was clear agreement by board members that there was no formal recommendation to council on the items that were mentioned in that information packet and there was a request to look into the possibility of issuing a clarification or a correction and what we did look into that and it was not something that was widely understood as a standard procedure by any of the staff we talked to the one suggestion we had was that we could if it were deemed

[92:02] important put out an email to the hotline with a clarification and prior to doing that there was considerable interest in checking in to see to what extent you as a board feel that's necessary and I think I outlined some of the considerations that an email to Judy that she had asked where we were on this if I remember right I don't know if you want to speak to any of that or if you want me to just okay some of the points that we had some question about was whether or not there was a sufficient difference between what was actually said in that information packet item and what is currently happening or is likely to happen are those the difference is significant enough to try and issue in a correction if so what is the desired outcome of

[93:01] that what would your your as a board what would you hope to accomplish by sending a correction and then thirdly is this in essence where you want to use some of your bandwidth to counsel similar to letters to the editor there's only so many there's only the more you communicate on the the less you communicate probably the more attention your communications will get hotline is a public publicly is a published email also the considerations you know we can draft an email that would go out to the public at large on the hotline and/or to those who subscribed to that that would state something we need you to decide on the words that you would want to use and because that's not something we want to craft Judy I just want to ask Jacque um

[94:00] since you weren't there when we had the discussion are you clear on what we're talking about on the twenty and your meeting on the 27th and unfortunately I wasn't there so I'm going off of what others have told me including Judy in particular there was a discussion of rent increases and the mechanism that's applied to allow from a certain level that rent increase and there was significant concern I think that's shown by some of the other issues on your agenda tonight that you want to consider for potentially for changes or at least understanding that issue the information packet is a communication a memo it goes to council and it was one that was scheduled to go around the issue of rent increases based on the concern and the community about it between the your

[95:01] meeting on the 27th and the time it went in the next day staff summarized your feedback in the following way it was titled input from the housing advisory board and then this is a quote from that memo the housing advisory board discussed this issue on June 27th and made the following recommendations ad this issue to the division of housing work plan second evaluate different approaches for adjusting rents that may be more closely aligned with changes in incomes of the residents that live in affordable rental housing third explore any legal constraints or options and then fourth consider extending the notice period of 30 days which is the current minimum notice period for residents when a property and are changes rents so that's the extent of what we reported to council as as input from you as a board and there's concern that it was not entirely accurate because of the implication that he made a formal recommendation to do these things when there was no such formal recommendation as my understanding of a

[96:00] concern got it it's like to add then at the next meeting when Jeff was there he didn't realize that we hadn't really made that recommendation and and we talked about how to correct that and we talked about making clear that it's important but we didn't vote on it that staff not forward information that we say unless it's checked with us to make sure we actually really said it and so because we didn't make the recommendation we're now trying to figure out should anything be done my personal opinion is I don't care so much about this particular thing because we'll be discussing it again and making our recommendations as I do I I don't I don't want our decisions to be misconstrued again so I want us to sign off on them first for information is forwarded to Council yeah it's just a

[97:00] matter of actually making a formal recommendation before anything is actually submitted to Council on this particular issue I don't disagree with anything that was done and I think we can further elaborate on it so I don't think it's useful to make a correction in this instance I don't from what I've just heard and not having been at that last meeting but I don't see any need to to do a clarification on it as you said it's kind of still an open thing I think it's fine yeah and I would add that I see this two parts one is there any form of a retraction or do we want to do anything with it and my personal opinion is no it went now it's already out there it's to be spilled milk so I'm fine with it and I don't disagree with anything that was said and the other part of it is process

[98:03] so part of what we are working on is process which and Jeff and I were talking about that to within our work plan and something that we can use with the facilitator is really talking about when do we want to make recommendations is it going to be a monthly thing a quarterly thing a buy issue thing do we just want to semis at the end of the year so we'll be talking about all those processes so in this instance I'm fine with it and have no feeling for that but it's great information to file away so that we can have that discussion on process and I'm fine with that decision I just want to again repeat clear and be on the record that we didn't make the recommendation and that there were three or four items that we also did discuss that didn't get on there that are still I'm guessing important to us yes of which I will get to in the next piece so I yes Jeff and two things one is

[99:03] fortunately that was a meeting that was recorded in chambers so anyone who is interested can see exactly what was said and what wasn't said as a case maybe I would like ask for a little clarification around turnaround times I think is a good practice for us to check what our summary of your feedback might be if it's not in the wasn't made in the form of a formal recommendation that was adopted that's easy we're just taking the exact thing you voted on in this case it wasn't it was a summary of a discussion and I agree that running that by you makes sense in this case there was less than you know it was twelve or fourteen or sixteen hour turnaround in that circumstance would a a quick email with we don't know if people will get it or get a reply is it better to not submit anything without getting the opportunity to check in with you it we want a minimum amount of time yeah or is

[100:01] it okay if you know I tend the following morning you get an email that on something is has to be submitted by noon so I need clarity on this is this something they've asked for counsel has asked for and wanted a summary and that's why you wrote it or do you do this on a regular basis and that's why we're so issues that fall that are going to counsel that fall under the mandate of a particular border commission are typically taken to that order Commission for input and a variety of things can happen there there can be a formal recommendation that comes from the board to the council and in some cases like crystals certainly where with on Planning Board you're required to do that you this board does not have such a requirement so you know never required to make a recommendation for example at this point with four members if you have a two to split on something there can't be a formal recommendation so in cases like that we would summarize the

[101:02] discussion highlight the main issues and provide it to Council so that they have the benefit of your discussion and there was there are times when it's a very quick turnaround required and we have to figure out what you all are comfortable with whether it's better to to I think if there's time it's always better to check in and get the chance for people to say no or yes if there isn't time and only a couple people get a chance to look at it are you comfortable with that or did you rather have a minimum amount of turn around and otherwise have there was insufficient time to summarize the housing advisory boards discussion on this so one more quick question for clarity then on that is these things that were discussing about needing a recommendation on would be on our work plan or it would be something that we would have an agenda on so we would know that we're preparing a recommendation or that one was needed correct correct so it shouldn't be some surprise to us and

[102:01] I think I must have missed that last one of why at that point so I think once we nailed it on the process of the work plan to the agenda we'll be clear that we're in that motion of giving a recommendation if we don't come to one that we you would be some izing our discussion on it and then yes I don't personally I'll tack on to that and say that I would not want to see anything put out that I didn't get a glance at beforehand so I understand your need for a quick turnaround anybody else want to add I would just suggest that when we're at the meeting that will be the topic of the summary that you're gonna send on the council that we just have that momentary discussion if we know it's a really quick turnaround we can kind of be given the heads up that that's going to happen and we need to be able to you know need to respond I think that would yeah I think that's an excellent idea and barring that if that doesn't work for some reason I think the opportunity

[103:00] for some input is better than none so let's you send it out to all of us and you only have we only have two hours to respond at least that gives us the option I'm fine with it the only issue I saw here is the word recommendation should not be in a summary at all so just go ahead just one more quick thing although I think I may have just lost it [Laughter] yeah forget it I lost it okay so I think what we're all tomatoe saying just ask crystal with your experience of is there anything that we're landing on that you think to be improved no I mean there's on with the quandary of a discussion where there is no recommendation and that often happens in a concept plan and and so we do rely on Cindy to capture that discussion because

[104:00] it goes to City Council and it's often a fairly quick turnaround there's some things that we've asked to see our discussion before it goes to council and before our minutes are approved so Court can we make the recommendation that you capture us and look really smart while you do it and that everything sounds really good but Jeff is right our recommendations are usually formula like an annexation is just a recommendation to Council but they're more formal I mean where you can have a motion and it's pretty darn clear which we when we were looking at the work plan there are spots which we already know that need to have our recommendations so we already know what would be formulating in there one other piece can we just say that if staff gets a majority of the board acknowledging and approving the summary then it's good to go that way if we do

[105:01] miss one or two but we still have a majority then we're good to go and everybody I think if we just give that little heads-up time at the meeting that's being some eyes and then as long as we kind of yes if I made just summarize following up on your suggestion I think our takeaways are we in summarizing discussions we will ideally at the end of the discussion there'll be a quick huddle about what do we want what's our summary what are our bullet points that we can then wordsmith and capture but then you've had that discussion that we would run that back by you to the extent possible given time but that it's better to go with even no one approving it at that point but certainly with the majority that it's approved and third that unless it was a motion that was approved to make a formal recommendation that word is not used it would be the board discussed or explore the following issues are expressed an interest in the following items something to that effect yes and that we get into a process with her you know

[106:02] it's not a surprise coming up on an agenda but we know what we're getting ready to discuss in into so any more do we need a motion on this or do we just go forward okay to the next issue so then next one is follow up on questions from June 27th so in your last meeting there was a question about the follow-up and I am paraphrasing here three questions about the ability for affordable rentals to be exempted from property tax could the city and county work together to extend property tax exemptions to affordable rentals for the purpose of limiting rent increases and then the third was why are rising expenses passed on to the affordable renter and we did follow up on those this time to get the following response in essence well first Judy since you were the one

[107:00] that brought it up last time and I think with your exchange with Kurt was how I got to those three summaries did we miss anything or does anyone else think we're we've got all the questions there for that for the questions where Kurt said that's a David Gere question I went back and listened to watch the video and wrote down and was I think mostly Mason Adam and I yeah so anyone else I mean I can tell you what I can Ann and it may have to come back if you have additional questions but in essence property taxation is governed by state law property tax exemptions are determined by state law there are so the city and county cannot do anything besides advocate for changes the current exemptions apply to housing authorities so that's the single largest provider of affordable rentals in Boulder and then to certain nonprofits providing certain types of affordable housing and that's an application they can make to be

[108:01] exempt and I know from working with thistle which is a large provider that do apply for all the ones that they're exempt for and they have renew that I assume that all the other nonprofits that manage affordable rentals that are eligible do that and they've been told of that as over the years as they come on board with new properties so that's there are much more detail on that and the summary from the City Attorney's Office was and it's property taxation is incredibly complex and there's not a really great summaries but there are those are the two main exemptions that are in place already and the third one is is not really a legal question so much as an approach in the I'll just summarize the the responses to that about why rising expenses are passed on to the affordable rent or the the first is our expectation as a city in investing or requiring that people provide affordable housing but typically

[109:00] investing in it and partnering with a provider is that they manage the business of running that property well so that we don't run into situation where the property isn't maintained well people aren't being qualified properly they're charging the wrong rents but on as a business we want them to operate in a sustainable manner so the ability to accommodate rising costs whether it's insurance taxes utilities landscaping maintenance and save for eventual replacements on those costs to the extent the increase have to be covered somehow otherwise things get put off so if you get an increase in your utilities that you're paying and you are not allowed to increase your revenue you will scrimp on something that's important typically maintenance and reserves are their first to go which gets to the quality of the rental unit and its sustainability over time so there is a

[110:02] need to operate them as businesses or what happens is eventually they need a substantial amount of additional subsidy or as we've seen in other communities they're so poorly run financially and physically that they are lost physically lost torned removed which is not an outcome we want more dedicated to permanently affordable housing so that does not get to the magnitude of the increases which is I think where the biggest concern is and the philosophy behind am I forgetting about the other people who use it and the industry standards is is that you are targeting the affordability of an income tier not individual households and by definition if you're if that income goes up or down they can afford more or less so that's the theory behind it and whether or not it's the appropriate metric is a whole

[111:00] different question that you will be discussing later it looks like the last thing I'll point out on this is that allowing rents to change that they're no more than the ami change actually is not related to their costs at all if for some how their costs were going down but the ami are going up that relationship would be exact opposite and the opposite is also true often costs are going up faster than the ami so I have no data back this up but the Assumption I believe is that they balance each other out at some level and and none of that gets to the question of whether it's the appropriate metric to use I would say thank you I I have a great new friend who's been helping me do a little research and she said that she heard

[112:00] from someone in the city that for-profit developers could partner with nonprofit or City Housing Authority and often get tax exemptions that way so it's possible that many of the people who don't have the issue of property taxes because they've already partnered is that your understanding as well it is legally possible through sharing owner ship in the property typically done through the creation of a low-income housing tax credit partnership in which you have a non-profit or Housing Authority is one of the members of that partnership the nonprofit's and housing authorities all understand the value that they are creating by extending the property tax exemption which is typically only housing authorities in those partnership cases and achieve a a compensation for you typically in the form of either lower rents or ability

[113:02] for the housing authority to house people that they otherwise couldn't you know it's yeah it is considered I just add one more thing to the discussion is the coops then builder a number of men partnered with a non-profit like both their housing partners I think they might have a 1% share and they get they don't pay property taxes for the most part to the exemption extends to the ownership of those properties so then what I think we're saying is that that particular property would have to look at a different structure business structure in it I'm curious with the expenses are they spread equally or as they're sliding based on so like if the

[114:00] parking space was a hundred dollars and it went up for everybody across the board or did they with the services do they take into consideration those that are in affordable units and it's a portion a lower portion so I believe I was not there for the discussion but I believe from what I've heard and what I saw that the concerns you're primarily concerned about are at Depot Square yes which is a for-profit owned affordable housing project in which it resides in a parking district where parking is shared unbundled managed and paid for everybody all users and I don't I cannot think of any other affordable housing properties other than those in that Boulder Junction access district that are that are in the similar situation where their parking is not included in the rent that they paid that location is whether your market rate or

[115:01] affordable parking is is separate and as far as I know there is no sliding scale for people who live in affordable units to access the parking garage spaces there I think we're gonna see something similar off of Route offs unto you when that stuff does anybody else have any other questions about that that the the shared unbundled managed parking or sump was pretty much an experiment hoping to get it right out at the Transit Village and so I think it is good input to know that there's some issues that have come up and I was going to send a little debrief to Planning Board just to let them know that this is an issue that's affected affordability for a number of people yeah I haven't I mean personally I haven't quite figured this piece out because everybody knows I have five vehicles and you know motorcycles and

[116:02] everything else and it's when I think about I was a single parent so for me my car getting the kids across town in between jobs I was working two jobs doing you know and then act after school activities and stuff like that it just wasn't feasible to read bus it's just no and I can't hey you know the bikes and everything else so I have it I have a really tough time with this because as a person I want to reduce all of that down but when you're hauling bags and doing all that it's it's difficult so I have a hard time when it hits the affordable people who are already working two jobs and multiple kids and so yeah I'm not you know I'm just kind of putting that out there is that that's a it's a pill for me on that piece I'm all for incentivizing removing of it but it does seem to disproportionately hit the ones or just trying to make it in our city I think that's something that a lot of us agree on and when we get to actually

[117:01] talking about that whole issue of affordable renters I think we'll all get into that a lot yeah and then just one more thing on frou Hoffs now that came to planning boardís concept plan City Council heard it also but they didn't say as part of their concept plan that they weren't going to have any parking on site for their senior permanently affordable units the parking on site is going to be for staff for the restaurant other people that that staff the facility but that was the decision that they made right however I'm going to add on that that one we're talking about seniors they do offer the rideshare bus rate from site and we aren't talking about a group of individuals who are tossing around kids and everything else so oh you felt like a different population to me so I did I when I was listening to that with a parking one and again they have a shuttle coming right to the place taking them to work so I do have to take issue with that being a

[118:00] senior myself who values my independence highly I although that's not an issue for you that is an issue very near and dear to seniors and very troublesome I'll keep my piece super short I just want everyone to keep in mind that when we're partnering with a business businesses main goal is profitability so at the end of the day I think they're thinking about that yep when it comes down to any extra fees or anything yeah that's the squaring part I just want to clarify other than what may be happening at frou Hoffs this is specific to Depot square for the most part well there are other affordable housing buildings some rental some ownership in that same district okay and I did not go anticipate having the parking

[119:00] conversation or would have researched that too or had someone else figure out what the extent of this is for the 3500 units out there right it's a minority but is I don't think it would be I don't think it applies to just the one project I think that's what you heard from right probably because it came up in the context of the higher rent increases that they're experiencing than others in the same area I also think they have tighter parking in that area so it's just it's they're getting pushed because of all of the different units it's just harder to park over there but I think we're gonna see this in projects as we move forward because to D incentivize the car usage in certain zones is going to be big mm-hmm I mean I'm hearing it from Planning Board and I'm seeing it and council is that that's the direction is that it's always going to be less cars less cars than anything else so okay so dude does anybody else have anything to add on that okay so we'll move on to AMI and Adam all right we'll try to do this the

[120:02] correct way I'm going to make a motion to move ami to a special committee that will discuss ami as a principle tool of measuring for affordable housing a second and that we have discussion no you have discussion I don't need to schedule them for it I think that's a the right thing to do with this yeah I would also like to add that um I know you have a lot of ideas around this and some thoughts around this and I know Adam does too and I would really love to see if it goes over to a special committee then that the two of you could be on that and talk about it yes I would

[121:01] like to make a recommendation that because I know you're passionate about it and I know you have a lot of great ideas around it and I like to discuss it but I you know listening to you the other day is that you seem to have a good handle on it so I would just like to see if you would be willing to and you know we could put it for putting this on special committee then we're looking at a shorter term window fourth and so it seems like just a few discussions and you'd come back with your thoughts because as we've talked about with Jeff etc is that if you guys suss out something then we have to talk about whether or not it goes on the work plan and our work plan and something bigger so this is kind of just a sussing out committee of where do we see what are some of the things is there some short-term possibilities there's some long stuff or is it a wash and you'd come back with you know either we can do this we can't do that or yeah with that in mind should we I would suggest I

[122:03] guess amending your motion to actually put a date for us to come back with our report Jeff to the board you'd be coming back with some emotion one way or the other yeah I actually before we second that I'd actually like to consider just making the motion by itself and giving you guys a chance to talk and report at the next meeting what your plan and process is so you can have an opportunity to really press it out a little more so that next meeting would be August 22nd so we'd amend your motion to that you two would meet in Special Committee and report back on the 22nd with a wouldn't be a plan it would be I think I think you're just suggesting that if we're going to put a date on this we just give ourselves time to

[123:01] figure that out first right yeah I think we should just stick to Adams plane motion you guys talk and at the next meeting give us a report and where you're at that's something that doesn't have to be part of the motion as far as I'm concerned just you're the committee we vote on that and then you guys will tell us that the next meteor okay so just to recap the current motion is to vote to form the committee to special committee to discuss am I is a principle tool of measuring affordable housing that is the motion I put the motion for an i ii ii with you - i was gonna have that as a separate motion okay okay so 2d seconded it and all in favor aye so it's unanimous and the committee is

[124:00] now formed now i'm going to make a motion that Jacques and I will be the two members of the committee special committee special because they're special yeah well second any discussion right all in favor aye and it's unanimous so we voted to form the ami special committee and elected Jockin Adam on the special committee it was a unanimous fantastic okay one more independent study so yes sir so this is the part through our email communication we talked at the beginning of the meeting where you said now I should bring up the other committee I went to farm I thought this is where these new business we're still okay we're still in an unfinished

[125:00] business yep I have you okay I got you there we got the line to kasi so one more under unfinished business the independent study so last meeting we discussed whether or not to pilot over the next two meetings sorry at the last meeting we discussed whether or not we would pilot independent study but then everything kind of digressed and we didn't ever really kind of we kind of talked about potentially doing it so I wanted to bring it back to this meeting to see if there was any interest in the independent studies thought which was we have a few more again items and do do we when we get to the agenda want to look at doing independent study does anybody have questions on what independent study is okay so the independent study piece was what we realized is that we had so many things

[126:01] to get through that to educate us and what was happening was that we were spending an hour to an hour and a half at the beginning of our meetings with these slide presentations from staff so they were coming in they're presenting a slide situation that we already get and and then all they're doing is reading it to us and taking up an hour and a half so in an effort to be more efficient what we were saying is that they would present that same stuff to us which they did today for community benefits we would read it and instead of them coming in and spending an hour reading the same slides they would just be prepped for about a 15 minute discussion of any questions that we would have so we could formulate so we'd read this stuff come up with our own set of questions ask them the questions when they got here and we're cutting out about an hour so that we can get more into the content of the work we want to do versus having an hour set aside for that and what Leonard brought up at that time was that not

[127:01] every one of our education pieces like the next one being financed and could be independent study so we could choose some of them that we feel like we could independent study and the rest of them we'd put on the work plan so what I'm asking right now is if there's interested in that and if so when we get to the agenda and reviewing the work plan we'll look at the ones that are up and decide if there's any of those that we could independent study and ask questions on does that make sense so your motion is just to the motion would be is there interest in independent study and if so we'll move it to the agenda so we just want to say yes to independent study or not and then when we get to the agenda will this which ones we can do and maybe pilot them twice so we've already discerned that next meeting August 8th has taken I just 22nd

[128:02] was taken and then 1 August 22nd has the finance one on it so it would be the meeting after that one and the next one that we would consider pecking in a few more if there are two topics for the 22nd cities community investment program and housing finance related but separate and we were thinking that if you wanted to test this approach with the community investment that lends itself well to here's the information if you have any questions we'll answer them however the Housing Finance we feel like would be better served with more of a flow on presentation yes to you is it crucial that we do both on August 22nd or can we just try the pilot on the one that you thought would lend itself to that and arrange to do the finance one later is there any pending City Council discussion or anything there is not we

[129:00] have already moved so the housing finance will be provided by bhp staff we've already moved that and it would be preferable to have them on the same time because there are two sides of the same coin how do you pay for affordable housing well part of the way you pay for it is money from the city so many of the issues and discussion points are overlapping and if you wanted to separate the Bulls separate them is it also possible to delay both of them and have them be together at a later date if that's what you choose to do that's certainly possible it is you from my understanding of what you wanted to see for that day you had two items essentially one was the community engagement and this was the other and you had directed us to look at it and see how it could be done in an hour so that's what we've been planning for okay so I don't have to talk about that now I

[130:01] talk about that under the agenda review coming up for the next meeting yourself no are you talking about a specific item you'd like to see on the agenda that sort of topic yeah okay yes I need to go on right so if it's helpful as well on this proposed plan are some of the things that are coming up so again all we're asking right now is are we interested in piloting independent study can I have I have another question actually for job do you see from staffs perspective cons to that structure I've been through a lot of presentations some of which are don't necessarily add a lot of value compared to just reading it yourself others are substantially much more informative and incorporate different

[131:00] ways of presenting the information so losing that opportunity which isn't going to happen on all of them is is a loss I would say in your overall ability to understand and I I think that's more around the quality of presentation and the approach that's taken I would like to distinguish between topics that are up for public hearings and and formal recommendations in action than those that are for general discussion I believe the former public hearing should include a substantive recap of what's in the materials for the public to have the advantage of that if they haven't had the opportunity to do the independent study right that was my second question you would recommend to us ones that you think it is vital that we hear so so I think it's a great idea for however that agenda piece is worked out that staff works with the board to make sure that

[132:02] there's a couple things we try as a pilot should we vote to do that that can be reasonably shortened I also want to make clear that we're just talking about we're not agreeing to the work plan there - anything else by agreeing to this we're just agreeing that we think it's a good idea to do a couple presentations in real shortened form and see how that helps our time right yes all the the presentations are not in short form the presentations would be given to us to do to read before we got there and you had mentioned in in an email you sent out about that we should have our questions in four days before is that still part of the motion that we'll get to the agenda when we it's under new business about this format in this agenda you know I wanna I did

[133:01] support the formation of this housing board and one of the reasons I supported it was I felt that there was a real benefit for the community to live learn more about specific well housing in the community and then specifically the affordable housing needs in the community so in this first phase as you're learning about all the different aspects of housing so is the community as they also learned that it's on TV people actually don't know that so I would be cautious on how you do this and because I think that as I said there's a benefit to the whole community and especially on investment in housing finance it sounds like a dry topic but you're gonna read it and then you're gonna say I have a question on page 15

[134:01] and then the staff will be trying to put it up on the screen if it's a spreadsheet or whatever so in a way you're gonna be repeating yourself I mean if you want to try it I'd say fine but do it very selectively and carefully having said all that the one thing that really bugs me is City Council they seem to be pretty good about a split screen with the presentation and then the presenter or even the presentation but for the board's not so much so I think it really is important for the public to be able to see those presentations so the next time you do a presentation if it's during the public the fourth Wednesday of the month when it's on TV I'd say coordinate it with Channel eight so they can provide that information that you're looking at to the public I'm just gonna

[135:02] add to be clear when we were talking about the independent study like the big ones that's not what this is for this is for some of the smaller stuff that we could just start to clear off of the agenda to create more time because I agree with you I think it's important that the public see that and hear it and as well as us plus part of some of these things because they have been given in front of City Council and implant and Planning Board are already recorded like the Ponderosa one because I was here in the audience for the City Council one two with the mobile home we could that would have been a great example of of you know watching the City Council one that was already up and our packet and then just asking questions so that would have been a and we might now be a little too deep in this once we start talking about which ones we still have left to go but if there is one being open to possibly doing it as an option well and that's a good example if I may where you

[136:00] have the links that you could put in the packet and then the public can be looking at the packet and you're really having that discussion rather than you know a presentation I don't maybe counsel planning board hasn't seen specifically the investment policies or housing the financial the housing financing putting links in and actually when we talk about the webpage as well on our front page that's something to me as I know we have them in the packets you know you and I have talked about that when we bring down new board members I know that we've talked about that it's all in the packets but on that web page we have a few hot links to different things on there but having all this stuff with links to it would be fantastic and then that way anybody can refer back to like it for some reason a couple years down the road we're talking

[137:00] about community benefits and we referenced something somebody can go back and look on all of the presentations and documents that we have of what we're discussing so just something for the future in the process how would it be to everyone if we formed a little committee of the board chair to work with staff on selecting a few of the presentations that would be ripe for being shortened in this way and then to get back to us at the next meeting and see and then we can and you know staff does that make any sense to do and I and I'm okay with that because I think kind of Jeff and I are sussing out some of those things anyway and we'll be talking about the work plan as we get further into this so what's that first motion what I can gather it's essentially two

[138:02] approved and proved approved piloting as I understood the motion it was do do we as a board want to try this and see how it goes yes so the motion would be do we approving piloting independent study for potentially a couple of work plan items and more to happen in new business with more detail and new business or you could approve right now I don't know it needs to be new it's part of the same discussion you could say I move that we that the chair and staff select two or three items over the next three months to try this and at the end of

[139:00] that trial we do a review and see if we want to continue it what he said so somebody has a second second somebody has to make you did motion yeah yeah when I said okay I think Cory's gonna read Becca get a proving piloting independent study potentially a couple of work plan items and more detail and new business chair and staff select two or three items for trial nog seconded I'll say yes Moya made the motion nog seconded all incorrect yes that means I just want to clarify so that means we'll hear what ideas you had and then we'll make our final decision if we're ready to go with those is that correct as we work out work plan man and we're

[140:01] and that's yeah will propose them and then you guys see if that feels comfortable to you so that I'm kind of amendment to that makes sense Cory so everything you said plus we'll Jeff and I will choose a couple to suggest back to the board for approval including time including dates just clarification it sounds like well can I suggest some wording for this so the motion would be to that the chair and staff would select - did you want two or three and two opportunities to test this approach of no presentation just questions and answers based on the packet materials within the next three months topics to will be submitted to the board as a whole for approval

[141:01] prior to choosing that approach with dates with dates I second anybody who a second it's the same motion right sure so Judy's seconds all in favor I just want to say one thing I do want to caution you there has to be some framework when this comes up at the meeting that sets the stage about the project if you only want it to be five minutes or ten minutes but really if you have the public watching yeah that would be really helpful rather than just dive in to the questions but somebody whether it's staff whether it's the board you know could just frame it thank you and why you're asking these questions thank

[142:01] you with the preamble with the brief preamble I don't know that we need to present this so vote further discussion yeah all in favor aye okay so on to new business new business first went up voting chair and vice-chair it did everybody read and receive their memo from Aaron yes Judy yeah okay so as you know that we need to vote the position in and we can either do at this meeting or next meeting but she is encouraging us to do it relatively quickly so is I guess how would we proceed with it just putting it opening to the floor saying somebody you make a

[143:00] motion to vote for chair vice chair and if we don't get enough a second number we don't do it okay or do we want to say we're ready to vote this time today or do we want to postpone it till next time I think the whoever makes the motion can make it however they want I have a question yes is it okay for people who know Robert's Rules of Order does really well for us to have a little discussion first before we make the motion which might keep us from making a motion and then amending it and then changing it that sort of thing do we just have a little discussion it's at the discretion of the chair or in this case the acting chair whether to modify that and anyone view can object if you don't agree with the chair or acting chairs judgment on that is everybody okay with a discussion you want to just to see where everyone's ad so to me it makes sense that you

[144:05] become the interim chair rather than just the chair today until the new board member replacing Leonard is in place and then we revisit it that's what seems to make the most sense to me and Jeff correct me if we're wrong but we have to vote this time or next time from what Erin was saying I'm not vote the selection of officers is subject to the approval of the board on whatever schedule you want it's typically a one-year term but you can change that there's no provision for interim okay so and you need to have a chair so you can treat it as interim in the sense that you know you would schedule a new election whenever you wanted to but that would be I believe how Erin would interpret your bylaws so then my inclination would be to have Mason be the board chair that we will then

[145:01] revisit when the new board member is on board with the board at a board to that and you will need to elect a vice-chair you have both officers you know when Erin brachot got elected to City Council in November Brian Vaughn Bowen was the vice chair and so Brian continued to serve in that capacity and we had no official chair but he ran the meetings and everything until March when the new appointee was made now in this case I would not recommend you know Anton to asking City Council to appoint a new board member sooner than their regular recruitment and they often do a mid-year recruitment because they have some openings on other boards I think maybe three boards might

[146:01] have openings and you know and that worked out well we have quasi judicial hearings and there was a bit of a problem with six people because it takes four affirmative votes of the Planning Board to pass a project not the number that are there but to pass the project it's a little bit of a different situation here but whatever you desire to do the only advantage of waiting to the new board is you develop more you include them sooner but I think whatever you want to do you're a new board and you want to be fully functioning so it's up to you so just to recap exactly what Erin said was as vice vice chair Mason acts in the chair capacity until there is a new election you can have a new election at any meeting it doesn't have to be tonight if you would like some time to

[147:00] consider which lucky soul will take on the new role but I would do it in the next one to two meetings by law requires a chair position but does not have to be immediate so I just wanted to make sure that that was back out there yeah it sounds to me that that is reflecting what crystal just said with with Erin he acted as vice chair yeah he just said Brian did when Erin left Brian just essentially filled the role of the vice-chair serving as the chair acting his chair so I think she's just suggesting here that that's fine to do but the shorter time frame is probably better then a longer time frame and so you know I think so too I think what I would suggest is that we look at what the term at this point may be we look at the term of Leonard's

[148:02] what his term would have been and I can't remember what the date was when we I let's say it's a year generally a year unless otherwise agreed by the board so yeah I'm trying to remember the date when when that term began April 23rd I think that's right that might be right yeah or its fourth winds a day in April right I guess there's two ways to go about it one is we make a vote now for Mason to be chair to that point in time at which point I imagine we will have a new board member hopefully sooner than later but the Mason would continue through until that point and then we would just go ahead and elect at that point a new chair or a vote to keep Mason in place but basically have Mason fill out the remainder of Leonard's term the other one is as soon as we get a new board member we make a new vote at that point for a permanent chair in which case I

[149:00] would say that you know we're just setting that is the point in time when we're gonna make a vote the only reason I think about that is just the dynamic of who that person is and how they might influence and impact us so those are the two options that I kind of see as feasible and cool I think we might be getting a little bit ahead of ourselves just because number one it's councils discretion whether or not we get a board member before great and they're pretty packed right so at the earliest months away that's one thing so I think we should take care of business now and I think we should also have that discussion about whether or not we would recommend an additional person in our selves which we have on the list own council does have the

[150:07] capacity to just simply appoint someone so it doesn't necessarily need to take months and I'm most comfortable as I said before with voting to have Mason be the chair and revisit it after council has appointed which they're either going to do sooner or in March so that's how we'll Italy you know and we just leave it open just say when have Mason be chair and revisit it that doesn't necessarily mean Mason's out of there it means we just revisit it so use the election now new election if we get a 5th saying revisit it mm-hmm that's what I'm saying so I I would add two things one I would go for an election now or next week or whatever our next meeting or what it feels like weekly doesn't it our next meeting just

[151:01] because for me personally it feels better knowing that I'm elected into it versus just rolling into it because it happened that way and - as a new board member it feels like a lot of pressure to come on the board and have to vote for somebody I don't one not for but just in the process of hey trying to catch up with all of us and then also know that everybody's waiting to vote at that same time so I'd personally say to finish Leonard's term and then that term actually does coincide with board selections which my guess is I'm just gonna go out on the limb and say that we're not gonna they're gonna select when they select at that time so my my request would be to do a vote tonight for chair and vice chair and - for the rest of this term and revisit at the end of that term one other reason that I think I'm leading in that same

[152:01] direction is that there was discussion of moving this to a seven member board and if that is something that's going to happen in this next well I think they remember you voted on it in November exactly that's right expand it through this term and I think it would probably be beneficial for cohesiveness to just vote for a chair and vice chair today if we choose to do so and then fill out the remainder of Leonard's term yeah there's discussion around that any choice on where does somebody feel so inclined to make a motion I guess we'd have to identify who does anybody else want to throw their head in for chair that's well okay hold up back back back

[153:01] do we want to vote tonight do we want to talk about the fifth board member first I have it on as the last new right item I guess we could absolutely move it to this point and but does that confuse maybe we should just chunk it out first do we want to vote tonight or not and then who wants to be the other hat in the ring for chair and who'd want to throw their hat in for Vice Chair and then talk about the new member does that sound like a plan okay so first yeah but you know the only thing oh well I'm just kind of jumping the gun here but the only thing that I'd say is the notice on the website did not include all of this so you might just want to put it out there when you have that notice even if it set up for a week so you're actually

[154:00] noticing you're actually putting this on the website so you're saying I did you want to see till you would like to wait on it so you're saying I would like to wait on the vote until next meeting which would be August 8th for a vote so that it could be noticed even though obvious days is going to be a retreat so nobody could come and see it anyway the only reason I suggest that if we talk about we really should walk the talk if we're talking about public engagement and transparency and you know if it holds it up a week you can have a special meeting and take an action and then go into your retreat quote study session format okay where there's no public participation this is a public participate and then apportion well do

[155:00] there's the opportunity well you haven't set up a procedure where you have a study session format yet so your meetings are all the all of your meetings will always be open to the public and the opportunity for public participation will be a feature in every meeting unless I don't even know if you could approve no public participation council has it but I don't know if anyone else does that's just my two cents how about I try to make a motion here wrap this one up I'm all for it I'm waiting go ahead okay I make a motion that we do we need to table you know yes table no it's not on our agenda device I think the motion would be I move that we elective chair and vice chair at our next regularly scheduled meeting Augustine tabled it's not it's I

[156:03] moved to table this until the August 8th meeting to vote for chair and vice-chair right so it's not an agenda so you're not tabeling anything there's you could just say here's what you could actually do with say well it is it is on our agenda yeah but that wasn't on the web right we adopted it yeah why don't we it's up to you yeah yeah I make the motion that we vote for chair and vice-chair at the August 8th meeting so any discussion sure I got that right okay so vote all in favor aye I do have a question though can we is it ok today

[157:00] to discuss if there's any interest in people being vice-chair just so we can think about it a little bit okay yeah so we'll just open for discussion then anybody who is there anybody who wants to throw in their hat or be considered for next week for a chair or vice chair vice chair not sure vice chair okay mister okay oh then I will I will withdraw my name I'm cool that I'm doing it I'm good I assume there's no one else for chair yes anybody else gonna go for sure okay let's make the official though next time so the public can head there right okay so that was discussion so we're going on next to next agenda item hiring a facilitator so this one is a motion to hire a facilitator for August

[158:03] 8th meeting and that we discuss any supporting goals that we would have for a facilitator if we chose to vote vote one in so I need to start with emotion right whether I moved to have a facilitator for oh did you ever so I move the board select and hire facilitator to support us in structuring our procedures improving our communication and decision-making and facilitating our goal selection and work plan process the engagement of the facilitator will be for up to eight hours in either one full day or two half day sessions or as the board sees fit

[159:00] the board will authorize the use of have budget to contract the selected facilitator so a few clarifications have does not have any budget Authority and the division of housing budget can support the cost of a facilitator so you you don't have the ability to direct us to spend money and we've you have some money the last line the board will request of staff that we okay the other clarification I'd say is with the timing that we have depending on what you mean by select you may not be much selection faculy procedure or options we have lined up a skilled facilitator who's available we found somebody who's willing and able to do it and that may not be much more selection process than that because she

[160:01] needed to know and I said I'd tell her tomorrow her name in the motion that her just say that it's a Heidi Brinkman is the consultant who is available couple others have been not available that's as far as we got in the time we had available to support us in structuring our procedures improving our communication and decision making facilitator goal selection and work plan process and then would that be a second motion for the engagement of the facilitator would be up to eight hours and a full one day or two half-day sessions board see fit we just scratched that part of it and I just you should because we don't you can't make that decision how much to use a facilitator you can express the desire and we can decide whether we have the money to do it or not okay I guess I was trying to limit that and usually a facilitator

[161:05] will probably interview the board or have some out it's sort of a short timeframe but some kind of outreach to the board and I don't know the sooner the better we've worked with Heidi before and that's what she's done so just anticipate that and yeah get on it okay if you want to read back that and all second you and then we can open for discussion use Heidi's name or should I just say facilitator and it's gonna be better to just use facilitator yep so I thought so I move the board select and hire a facilitator to support us instruction our procedures improving our communication and decision-making and facilitate our goal selection and work plan process period a second technically you

[162:02] can't hire somebody so I would say if I mean you know I move that the board request staff to it to hire a facilitator for our retreat I move the board select and I'm sorry I mean that staff that's what I needed to change okay staff select a facilitator to support us instruction our procedures and bruising or communication decision-making in facility our goal selection at work planning process second sorry discussion discussions question anyone I like the idea of up to eight hours so that makes it finite time and we have to decide or I don't know if she would she be planning on four hours the first time and then we'd have a second one if needed or I asked for her availability

[163:02] for the three to six window that that meeting scheduled for I assume that she is planning it will be some before and some after so she's probably got a four-hour block minimum for the meeting itself and then whatever prep and wrap-up anybody else okay so we can move to a vote all in favor by right so it's unanimous so Jacque made a motion I second did all unanimous great so just a time check 40 so we're running a little bit behind me yes so given the time frame if there's some way that you can

[164:00] indicate what you hope to get out of having a facilitator I mean the motion language is is not wide open but it's still not particular so if there's anything that either you can each submit your hopes by email quickly so she can start to plan for how to interact with you before the meeting or right now I have a quick conversation that would make her ability to support you greater great so might I suggest them for all of us is that you prepare some form of maybe a couple paragraphs or something for her of any goals and priorities that we would have individually and send them to Cori and then she can pass them on since we don't have her email Heidi's email is it everybody okay with that yes yes okay great so we will send to you a paragraph from each of us and my guess is as you and I

[165:00] talked earlier is that she'll get back to each of us to do some prep work before we get into the actual yeah but at least this will give her a jump off point of what each of us were thinking and then she'll structure it from there okay so we've got through the facilitator all right reformatting the agenda so as we're working through this this is the reformat on the agenda again as I sent out a couple of emails on it and what the hope was was to create more clarity streamline things a little bit have the public be able to anticipate what we were doing here and even more so than that as we can kind of see as we're working through some of these I don't want to see issues but items that when we put them in motion format before we

[166:01] get here we've thought them out and we feel a little bit more clear plus it requires us to kind of put out some information to our team to the board to kind of flush out the idea that's what I was thinking about for the agenda the hope is then that everybody could have your ideas then the week before so that it gets published which means that when we get done with this meeting for the next couple of days you really want to think about what you want to get on there and then we'd still have room for last-minute items as they pop up at at least you'll know what the next person's thinking and what they're doing and if there's any crossover on any agenda items and so we could tighten up some things if they pop up but again I think it helps with communication and engagement does anybody else have anything they want to add yes a couple questions could you as board chair send out an email to everyone reminding us to do it that's reminding us to send here's the

[167:02] agenda as it is now please send your ideas within the next day or two so we can get it on each other at this point in this your agreement is to set the agenda for the eighth tonight yeah and unless you change that there wouldn't be the opportunity to add items change them prior to us publishing it's come up they just come up the last minute for agenda review and that has a downside as you some of you have noted already so if you wanted to come up with a different I mean your bylaws of chair and vice-chair set the agenda week before so you have that's two options and you can come up with multiples others if you'd like to try and make this work better for you the part you just said about sending an email I'm sorry I didn't get that then so what are we sending oh that was our ideas for the other thing okay got it all right then here's my thoughts about the agenda setting I looked at a lot of agenda

[168:01] stood that other boards use and I really like your idea that you didn't have time to do in this agenda about adding a sentence or two about matters that would give a little more information to the public and also touched on sort of for us but also I saw one other thing that some boards do that I thought was really helpful they have it divided by what's discussion what needs a vote so you can see real clearly what's just discussion and what's just vote and and I thought that was also really helpful thing for a clarification that I'd like to fold into this crystal you were nodding your head like you've seen this think so I'm a little bit concerned about not being able to add motions after a motion at some point I'm sure between this meeting and the next meeting but if we can't do

[169:01] that because we have to have agenda discussion at the end of this meeting well so I'll add in that the reason we initially got rid of doing the vice chair chair agenda meetings is that there was issues that were coming up around it so I just felt like we needed to do them all together instead of in those meetings so I'm okay with going back and Jeff and I talked about him today even while we were you know he was giving me guidance on structuring for this is is I'm okay with going back to that one week before having the vice chair chair meet for the agenda items and then that way it gives us in our two week meetings one week to get all the stuff over and it still leaves space as we've normally done for the pop ups but then that means that we'd have to have another motion to go back to how the bylaws were with chair and vice-chair

[170:02] agenda meetings and then then everybody could submit their stuff up until one week before and we would set it on the agenda so it's my understanding that stuff comes up and there will always be the opportunity for you to put in an emotion at the last minute this is just to try and give more clarity in space to it we can't actually do that right now because we don't even have a Vice Chair for the next meeting so we can't have an agenda meeting like that I suggest we stick to this but but that we know that we can send in motions and you do it a week before the meeting is when you post it a week before is when we want to have the agenda and supporting materials posted so the public has adequate opportunity you didn't know what you're going to discuss and be prepared to talk about it so challenge right now is all of the

[171:03] things as was noted all of the things that were added tonight no one had a chance to know about most of their procedural and probably not of particular interest so yes you most boards have a process by which under matters you can bring up stuff like that and it's best to minimize it that was well fed it's best to minimize that the other thing is theoretically under matters when there's an item and you vote on it you should open it up for public comment now what City Council does is they usually will make the motion have a discussion then open up the whole slew of things together does anybody have a comment on these five or six items and then they'll take a vote on one item after another you can do it just like you did it tonight that's fine but

[172:00] theoretically when you make a motion and you're going to have a vote you do open it up for public hear public participation public comment so that's one thing the other thing I do like it that you put the that you're gonna put the action there will be a vote or whatever it is but I'd also suggest whoever's making a motion to include it so it gets included in the whole packet and if there's just one or two maybe a little bit longer than the quote agenda title even if it's under matters so the the ami it would say ami discussion for subcommittee and then you'd have your motion in the packet and maybe a little bit further discussion so someone from the public would have some no context the men the other thing is I do think there should be the public hearing items and those are kind of

[173:00] bigger items that you would have a special agenda slot for after you know after public participation approval of meetings and stuff just in addition public hearings were not on this agenda but you did one before and it was on the agenda that way also matters from Council are not on this agenda but you have had those before too so they're not rather than have them on the agenda and say none they're just not on the agenda and that if you would rather have at a different way we can certainly do that to know I think if you're not going to have anything any public hearing items you don't list them but I think this is a good idea to let the public know that there would be votes and be able to find emotion somewhere I'm just looking at I just around this thing I'm looking at the clock

[174:00] and I'm thinking about our meetings and trying to structure an agenda at the end of our meeting for the next one two weeks ahead and it seems like it may not be best use of our time just for going forward to be doing it in that manner so it kind of I would lead to going back to our previous model unfortunately we don't have a Vice Chair we're ready when we're ready okay and if a vice chair or a chair couldn't be present for whatever reason the meeting would still happen so I don't know that not having one elected affects your ability to do it yeah so within that structure when there's an ad the few times we did it people still had extra information they wanted to add when that first came out they had an opportunity to add things is that correct that'll still happen it's up to you guys how you want to decide do you

[175:01] want to just delegate it completely do you want to ask that that agenda yeah there's a preliminary and a chance to weigh in before the week is up totally up to you guys I I mean I want to just make it clear that at no point are we saying that at any point are you not allowed to make a motion it's not that's not being said what's being said is what gets onto the agenda and how much and by when can we get it on the agenda for public and so right now as we stand with the agenda at the end of the day or at the end of this meeting we have to come up with what's going to be noticed for the public at the end of this meeting what we're suggesting is reverting back so that we can collect like like I did for this one clicked everybody's thoughts and ideas that they did have and get as much possible for one week

[176:01] before and that gets published and even then we still added a couple new items when we got here so then it goes back to what crystals saying by not having so many new things presented is that we'll have captured most of them with only a couple that would be last-minute changes or additions and hopefully what are we get into then as a pattern where instead of waiting till the last couple of days and we all then start looking at our information and bombarding all the agenda items right then that actually we spend maybe the next couple of days after our meeting collecting our thoughts getting them all prepared and then we kind of have that little reprieve up until the meeting does that make sense hmm so it seems like we have two things going on accepting or making a motion to accept this agenda and whether or not we want to revert back is that what everybody's hearing this agenda

[177:00] structure yes its format so and I do like this agenda structure I just want to know if we also can add separating as much as possible discussion items from items we have to vote on I just think that'll be more comprehensible for people to read can I ask so here its are you talking missus within the structure of this that vaulted to all the vote items or one maybe this will be helpful I hope so I've heard three things that you're hoping to get one is identified whether it's a discussion item a public hearing a vote you know whether there's going to be a recommendation to Council that that's one adding a short description of the item not just the words you know a little more expanded than we have here and then third if there's a motion that someone is going to propose that it's in the agenda that capture everything and the the expanded definition should come from the person [Music] putting the item forward because then

[178:01] otherwise it leaves the other person up to interpreting what's being said so the description can come from the person putting it putting that piece forward okay and Judi wants to see it organized based on categories I'm good I feel good enough that if it's that way if everything is clearly marked discussion actually specify how you're supposed to set up your agendas so that that's how they are right now and we'll try it with the addition you have the opportunity to change that order of items and how you how your agendas are structured if you want so we're continuing with the same group grouping we will continue with the matters the approach of call to order gender review for actually I think I mean I can't remember minutes or a gender review comes first participation I just don't know how that that how it shifted so

[179:02] that you felt okay like what what happened that made you feel differently okay okay so Corey can you read back what he said and we can make a motion on that then is that it's yes identify if it is a public hearing a discussion or vote adding a short description of item and then you added comes from the board member bringing the item forward and if motion is proposed it is in the agenda okay so I move to accept this agenda format with that criteria moving forward we're all future agendas don't think that's necessary anybody yeah yeah so I

[180:01] moved to accept the current agenda format including the three items for our new agendas second cute I was like it was a pregnant pause all in favor discussion discussion all in favor aye so it's unanimous so then the second piece of that has to be oh boy after nine I fried donut can I ask a quick uh huh interjection if it is nine do we need to extend probably not a bad idea it's council's practice but I moved to extend second on favor I just ran in on this okay so then the second portion of that is are we staying

[181:01] carrying over how we're making agendas or are we reverting back to the bylaw so that we had the longer time to make the agenda it seems like since you had said that we don't need the vice chair on this next one and we're gonna vote on the next one that we're okay with one meeting we'd be okay with one meeting not having vice chair while we make the agenda is everybody comfortable with that one meeting that is then sent out to the whole board that we can give feedback to perfect like that so we want to the motion would be we're reverting back to the bylaws on agenda making with chair and vice chair and staff with can we say a 24 hour for one meeting until the vote occurs with can you 24 hours no I thought that got lost I'm sorry no no just restated yeah I

[182:07] vote we revert back to halves original by lies for agenda setting with chair and vice-chair with staff for one for the meeting of the eighth the part you had so far about you recommend you move that we revert back to the chair and vice chair meeting with staff to set the agenda that agenda will then go out to the board as soon as you've done it and the board will have 70 days or something 72 hours as yeah because we have a showers to add things and that's all and of course we don't have to say it at the motion but motions can still be brought out at the agenda review before each meeting Jeff can you have a

[183:00] meeting within that amount of time so I was just trying to think 72 hours before next Wednesday afternoon would be its this has to be done this by this Friday so maybe we should that's why I'm saying 24 hours that three days would just mean that we only have two days to come up with the agenda yeah well it's also possible that that will change when we're no longer having meetings the second Wednesday of each month true but we're just dealing with this one right now oh so you only wanting to do it for one meeting I thought you wanted to do it for I don't thought you wanted to just do it just go back to having the agenda yes that portion of it but this will be the only one where it goes out for the other board tell the board because I am I correct in that the original bylaws is that the chair vice chair and staff make the agenda and it goes out I am hearing two ideas here yes

[184:00] I think one is that we would go back to the bylaws which state that the an agenda committee comprised the chair and vice chair shall meet prior to each meeting and consultation with staff to establish the agenda for the meeting subject to public notice provisions there would be no checking right then there's no draft agenda right and the other idea is we still have the committee but they submit a draft agenda with the opportunity for feedback prior to establishing the final and what I'm trying to avoid is I believe the reason why we switched to the way which has its own problems is because so many people then had things they wanted to add and so you can go ahead and do that that's fine and if that's the vote it gets it carries but then there's I'm expecting that there would still be lots of people at the last minute who have things they want to add so we can try it and see how it goes yeah again the hope is in our process as we get better that we're not waiting til the last minute to jam pack everything that we actually have a healthy process

[185:02] of getting as many in that we can so that it's nice and structured and that it becomes the exception to the rule that you do last-minute motions and just real quick before the agenda meeting happens we would still give any motions that we would want to give to put on the agenda and I wouldn't anticipate that any one's motion would not be applied within time constructions obviously right so that's something just like this one is that everybody's got on there that that had given it was only the ones that like about an hour before the meeting that you had a couple more you wanted to add to it so those would be last-minute ones that were added just like we did today so yes I move I'm gonna make a motion that under so you have more discussion well I just want to have a quick discussion I mean can we just make the move the motion is just to revert to it's simple you understand that we can still give those motions prior to the agenda meeting so they get

[186:02] on there okay so I move to revert back to the original bylaws on our agenda making I'll second that any discussion all in favor okay okay and it's unanimous okay so next item meeting structure Judi this was from you yeah so before I actually make a motion I wanted to mention my thinking about this so I'm concerned that we're spending a disproportionate time on process and not enough time on actual housing issues which is actually what we're supposed to be doing so I would like to see us all go forward with housing issues why we still are attending to process and recognizing that we're on TV on the fourth Wednesday and that Adam and I are going to be doing publicity

[187:00] hopefully some more people will know and watch it and possibly attend I'd really like that to be focused on actual housing issues and have the second wednesday for as long as we need it be more about process and and and related functions like orientations that aren't pertinent to issues that we have to deliberate on discussion just quickly I would just say somehow in your motion that we preface that we're not going to have bimonthly meetings in other words at some point we're going to come to an end on that right and that's the wording of it I had yeah until right okay I mean then we're done with process - we won't be having to discuss process all the time well right so I'll add my sub talks on it I

[188:01] thought a lot about this and personally we're essentially restarting our start and we're right in the middle of building the house and I mean shouldn't say building the house process to me is a lot like coming up with the the plan so that we can actually build a really solid house so it's a little heavy intensive right now because we weren't getting it for the first couple of meetings that we had so every time I feel like it's too strict to just say it's only gonna happen on the second and the fourth because we're gonna have process issues each time as we're figuring this out and learning because we're a brand new board and like Jacques said it's not going to be we're not going to have bimonthly and we also have the facilitator on the 8th so I feel like I get where you're going that you want more content to happen but this to me is one of those examples of

[189:00] when you try to regulate to get to where you want to go versus just allowing this to kind of shake out in the beginning so that we can get to the content so I'm Aiman know on sticking to it so I have yes Adam you thought I also understand what you're saying I think it's just a thing of making a point that we have some housing related issue that we discuss on the 4th Wednesday meeting because people are watching us and I'm sure they want to hear something about how is he not entirely about process so that's just I think a point that the agenda should reflect that's a great point so again I'll miss I'll mention I think it's really crucial that why we're doing process we actually do with the board what the City Council asked us to do and we have plenty of housing issues

[190:01] to talk about our just the things we're already envisioning for the year are pretty important and I'd also I just don't think it's as exciting for the public to watch us to talk about process and we're just trying to build public engagement and I think we need to really take advantage of being having channel 8 archiving us and showing us live and I think we certainly obviously there's going to be some little process things that come up but I'd like us to have our focus be on housing issues at the 4th Wednesday and then focus all our meetings all our second Wednesday meetings or special sessions on process issues and when we're done with the bulk of process then that's when we can stop the Wednesday meetings I don't like the idea of discussing housing issues on the second Wednesday of each month when

[191:00] people are not as aware of it and don't have the opportunity to engage in the same way can't watch it on TV I absolutely hear you and I understand what you're saying and I do believe I completely agree that the public wants to see us doing housing stuff I think they would also like to see a functioning healthy board that's making quality decisions and so I'm I totally understand where you're at we're just five meetings behind on setting up a good a good process and again I do think that on the eighth and on the eighth and with the next couple of meetings this will be a moot issue so I don't feel like it needs to be a motion but it's a point well taken and something that we can address while we're doing the agendas from my side I think that I think it is a point well taken that we you know especially on these Wednesdays we need to be focusing on that I also

[192:00] don't know that we need to make it emotion I think that we can just recognize that we need to bring actual content outside of our processes and focus that to the Wednesday meetings great so I would like to go ahead and make it a motion I have nobody second said that's fine and I'll be on record as having made the motion and that's cool I make yeah I make the motion that we focus as much as we possibly can our fourth Wednesday meetings of each month on housing issues and that we focus all second Wednesday meetings or special sections sessions on process issues until we've got the bulk of process done and we can dispense with the second Wednesday meetings I will second okay any discussion so we take a vote all in

[193:00] favor say aye okay and so next section item source of income this is also GE section 8 ordinance 8 to 49 discuss issue of affordable housing residents if I may just clarify I added the ordinance 8 to 49 and the word source of income I believe the proposal was to discuss the section 8 which I understood to refer to councils discussion of an ordinance establishing a non-discrimination proposal for our requirement on source of income for tenants and landlords so this is actually it can be two separate motions or it can be one motion together I'm interested in having a special committee form of which I'd be happy to be the

[194:01] sole person on it or see if anyone else wants to be on it to discuss two things and again it can be in separate committees or it can be when together and one is City Council is going to be looking at section 8 housing trying to make that a protected class for landlords just like race gender etc etc so I'd like to look into that and come up with some thoughts to the board at the next possible meeting perhaps August 22nd and the other is besides the ami which I completely agree with pursuing I'd like to have a small committee look into affordable housing issues for residents including some of the things we talked about like amenities parking things like that and come up with a way forward that Adam and I have already worked on but if we don't get it all

[195:01] accomplished today have a committee continue with that okay so those are two big different issues so let's start with the section eight one and do you want to start with emotions so that we can SEC it and have a discussion sure I move that we form a special temporary committee to look into the section 8 housing issue is covered by it is covered by that ordinance that's the one yes that's correct the Human Relations Commission has proposed that Council passed an ordinance that covers a variety of things one of which is protections based on source of income and so I'm interested in that aspect 8 to 49 I second and discussion I don't want to be on the committee but I think that is a great idea but I read the article stuff

[196:00] - I agree with you I think it's a yeah sorry I was just gonna say that leaves me to back you up and I think it's probably valuable that you have its back up so she's got a research assistant oh that's right okay so just I can help you out okay Jeff I just want to point out that given that it is on a matter that has been prepared for council there's a lot of materials and staff have been working on it I cannot promise anyone else's staff availability but I would recommend a quick starting point making that connection and I can facilitate that okay yeah thank you thank you okay so do you believe so you made the motion and we got it seconded we had

[197:00] discussion so yes now we wouldn't this would be for the formula of the committee yes the forming of the special committee Judy made the motion for the forming of the second committee it was seconded by me and we'll vote on it all in favor say aye nays obviously I don't know I asked okay and now your second piece so the second piece was besides the ami issue that has been that's come up before the city and affecting a lot of people in affordable housing the residents of affordable housing there are a number of a additional issues like amenities etc that Adam and I had sent to the board and however far we get with that if we don't come to conclusion about it that the committee do further work on looking into information okay and I'm do you want that special community or you looking for a long-term especially you special special okay do you wanna make that motion can I just say so moved I just say okay I move that we form a

[198:03] special committee that would look into and report at the August 22nd meeting about issues affecting affordable housing residents a second discussion this is just a continuation of what we've already had we just want to try to format it so we can come to a conclusion as a board on things that we can actually agreed so just just one item is on August 22nd you're gonna have housing issues and solutions so how will that inform the discussion then you're gonna have how they do how about that's my hope and we'll see when we get to the through the agenda talks okay or and I'll just leave it open-ended for now okay cool so the motion now it

[199:02] doesn't have a date do you want to restate it I move that we form a committee special special committee to look into housing issues or affordable housing issues for residents as we've already begun second and vote or do we need a discussion okay vote all in favor okay and does anyone want to be on the committee I would like okay great so on the committee Denis Judi Adam on this special committee for affordable housing rental issues for clarification is this the same as the issue listed under e double I won yes

[200:03] okay yes and the reason it was listed there is because it's fine to be clear yeah we put it there and we don't sleep for the record yes to agenda 822 but now we're extenuating and extending it out so just so that now so everybody's clear when we do these special committees and committees that these now are gonna go on to the agenda item and will be updated like you'll have space to update each meeting yeah but I have a question that I'm looking at a short committee with average soon so you just said we were can do today 22nd but now you're extenuating no no originally when you first reached out to me and wanted me to put this on the agenda your email said I would like to discuss this tonight for August 22nd so I put it on here so it wouldn't get dropped but we've removed the date from this

[201:00] motion that we just had so they from the motion but I'd still like to discuss it August 20 and we can which I just said all committees special committees and committees will be discussed every meeting because they fall under committee reports so they have a standing and I'm not hoping to have a committee meeting then I would like to suggest we actually finish the discussion then that's up to us so that's what we bring to the board on that date we don't have a standing spot every single meeting so we can discuss the one faith and say we want it on you to the Friday 22nd it's gonna be on the agenda August 22nd because it's a special committee if I may she likes it so a substantive conversation like that should be noticed properly it shouldn't if it comes up as a committee we've we've we've had a conversation we think this is really we need to structure a conversation it needs to go on the agenda could be the committee report but having the discussion on the 22nd without having it

[202:00] noticed would be problematic so that's why I'm wondering if you can tell us when Council is discussing the rising rents for affordable housing residents some council received the information packet item On June 28th and has to my knowledge no council members have expressed an interest in having that conversation to staff so it's not scheduled okay cool the best of my knowledge just for clarity about the first piece that you had about the committee reports and substantive information this is just more of a personal question how is it on the original agenda where it just literally says committee reports and we are going into more detail is that a bad thing am i hearing you right I'm making a distinction between a report here's what we've learned is what we've here's

[203:00] what we we think is important to talk about and having the the policy question this policy discussion going beyond a report out and saying let's decide if these three things are worthy of us recommending to Council that crosses a line okay so in this agenda then the the original agenda that would have been listed selects a engagement had said that they had some something big that came up that would have been listed here I think that is the better practice okay has the opportunity to know you're gonna be talking about it and connect with you in one of many ways including attending the meeting okay and that so then that for future practices is that we're looking for like a small couple sentences to describe what's going to happen on that one as well so in any of

[204:02] the committees for best practices we'd want to get into routine along with the motions that you know before that week that you need to produce a couple of sentences on your committees for the agenda and determine what we want to do as a discussion is anything beyond literally just telling you a couple sentence description so best practices yeah I'm not sure exactly where I draw the line if it's me I would say if I'm if I'm out of committee I'm saying here's what we're wrestling with here's what we've learned you have any questions you have any guidance for us that all feels like a standing item that probably doesn't need an extended description if it's as a committee we recommend the board discuss this substantively that's that should be described in the agenda and then it can either be scheduled as a separate agenda

[205:00] item or you can choose to bring it up under the committee discussions you know it's not just a report then it's also an agenda item and then at least publicly a chance to know you're likely talk about it fantastic so that'll be best practices then as we move forward so we've done that that ends our oh no member we Agassi I almost forgot you the new member you wanted to discuss the new me yes yes I think it would be really helpful if we discussed and then made a recommendation to Council and had you tell us Jeff the best way to to do that of of our preference for for how soon we wanted a council member added and I would be just as happy if we did it if we recommend it to them that they appoint a new member as soon as possible

[206:03] because I think it's otherwise too possible that we get stuck in to two votes and I think it's good to have five to two oh I was like with the to two vote where we were a little ballerina clothes and danced around no yeah so I would like to recommend that but I want to discuss before we thank motion you know I'm no expert but the I think the proper weight it is make a motion to recommend to council that they appoint a housing advisory board replacement member as soon as possible and then if there's a second there'll be discussion if there's no second then there won't be okay that the board recommends to City Council that we would we respectfully appreciate a new board member being appointed as soon as possible second discussion discussion

[207:05] are okay I can do either way on this obviously I want as many brains in here as possible but I also fear adding another personality when we've already had our current issues so it's two sides of a coin to me my two cents I also have a couple sides to the coin maybe three we love to have the brains in here as Adam just said and I feel like especially with special committees etc so that we're kind of diluting ourselves I mean you know how do we handle it the other side of that is I do think we have an opportunity here before as you

[208:02] said a new member comes in to help us solidify our process and culture somewhat so that when that new person does come in there is some basis culture that's set and they have a stronger foundation to stand on when they step into the board the longer longer term one is there's a certain piece to me that it says you know if councils gonna take the amount of time I they may take to get to this anyway there's also some benefit potentially of you know and again we don't know if it's gonna happen but if there is gonna be a seven there's some potential benefit to those three members being selected by council simultaneously so that they can play with their kind of energies of who they're putting on and keep in mind they only have a one-year term to so they could be selecting four members so just

[209:01] well okay I don't know how we do this now but there was that point that I wanted to bring up so then that actually actually changes do you want to not have a board member come in soon and get acquainted and acculturated with how we do things and then hat or and or maybe have four members which would double our size if you decide not to not to stand the board then there would be possibly four new board members coming in because you would be leaving and we would be the only three remaining does that actually seem like a better option too or wouldn't it be better to have a new member come around right away and at least have the option of three two votes rather than what I really wanted to do was I wanted to suggest that Adams term would be so I feel like I i if we were

[210:02] able I mean mind you none of these we don't have any no control over any of this but what I'd like to see is if if we because we're a new board and maybe somehow we make it a recommendation to City Council that if we work this hard to codify and put these in place and you are willing to stay on to me that would just go towards making this a much richer experience and a huge benefit and to being able to continue with the four of us creating that culture and my hope is as you saw on my email is that we create something that makes it so exciting for other people to want to participate in this you know we have a large turnout but if you're interested and I'd love to make the recommendation to City Council that you move up and that yes we're interested in another member I'm with Jacques I don't think it's gonna happen until board selection they have so much on their plate right now but that's I think that we shouldn't be

[211:03] assuming how they think and I think they would be really happy with the input of how we feel about this and and I as I said they can just simply appoint someone so and I don't want to put you on the spot with having to give that make that decision less you're positive you already know but I know you have you know crystal have you had any experience that they can season how that would be useful to this conversation yeah um as a council member I do recall that we had a vacancy soon after a recruitment and we just looked at the applications and we selected a member from the applications because the application pool was quite rich for this board so that's one thing that the City Council could be doing I would say you know I know you're trying

[212:02] to develop a culture and get the work done but if you end up in a situation of a to two vote it's you know the motion will fail and that could happen on a number of things it would be better I think just civically to have a full board and hopefully you'll get two new members if the public sees that there's benefit to that I think that having a five-member board is problematic because you're depending on everybody making every meeting so back to his original question though you did have a board that lost and then how did you guys actually handle it we had numbered a number of boards where we lost people mid mid term and so right now I believe they're a number of vacancies and they'll often do a midterm recruitment and filling you know the other thing again

[213:01] once how do you guys handle it how did you just recommend right counsel we know I wasn't on board I was already counting on yeah it's on city council when you were on City Council and you lost a board member what did you guys do in the city the staff would usually say you know we have another we have an opening we have three openings we'll have it you know we've got want to look at some dates to do a recruitment now if we had just done a recruitment I think we just went through the applications and we had a council meeting in and filled that board and then it's a little tricky are asking adam2 asking council to move add them up because you can reapply next year Oh for five more and you might not be interested in that you could just that's something that you could write the council I'd be interested in filling Leonard's term having the new appointee fill on one year term and they can reapply for five years I mean that as an

[214:02] individual and if the board wanted to support I think there's some weight behind the fact too that if we made the recommendation again knowing that from what Erin had said on the city councillors that they have the option of doing it's just kind of like making this recommendation of whether or not we want the seat filled right away is they don't have to the poor community area they can make a recommendation as to whether that happens sooner than regular appointment time by an March you also do not have to make a final decision and many times Borgo several months without missing a member it will take two councils some time to consider the matter and decide how to proceed so if you think the position should Philby be filled before then it would be good to get their attention fairly soon or else by the time they can find agenda time to discuss before March so we're just making a recommendation and to me if you're interested in that we also include the recommendation because you have my endorsement to stay for all five

[215:01] because you'd like I actually happy with that too but I would really like to give that them a separate thing and give Adam some time to think but you're gonna be a little bit of time out of here you're gonna have a month or two to develop exactly hopefully the culture and the processes and everything right before I can tell you in two weeks fantastic so the motion is I would really like to move that we let council know that we would like a new member to replace Leonard as soon as they possibly can I think that'd be to our benefit

[216:04] that doesn't include anything about me doesn't include anything about you that's why I'm processing because I'm thinking about how it goes and I do believe that motion was seconded so it's open for decision hasn't been amended so does anybody have anything else to discuss is there any ability to table that motion until the next meeting that's what I was or do we just vote on what I do you if you make a motion to table then the motion has been the table in motion has to be voted on with no discussion if I recall from Roberts rule I think if we do a recommendation it's one recommendation and want to come back later and then say oh and by the way can we also and that's why I would suggest

[217:02] that we would table it and then we're gonna draw your motion this time and we make it next time full information yeah I'd like to also add that the board that the City Council did pick five people not for and for us to operate as for longer than we need to if council would be ready to move quicker I don't think is is appropriate for us to do so I'm happy to have you all table it and discuss it next time but I'm still recommending that that that part of it we do so right now there's four those motion has to be it's right now there's no amendment if she's no way she's not willing to withdraw or and there's really no amending it it's just tabling it well you can amend your motion to

[218:01] options now as I see it one is to move to table and take the vote and see if that tables it or not if it doesn't or if you know one makes that motion than you vote okay so on the existing motion this realm and I make them I move to table this motion until our next meeting on the 8th of August 2nd anybody want to discuss no just I don't think there's discussion about so then vote all in favor aye nay I'm pretty much attorney I have to be the lone wolf and lots of things here tonight and so three in favor of tabling it to August eighth and one nay Judi or the motion of recommending new member to the board so you will have the motion that Judy made on your agenda for the

[219:00] area and at that point you're gonna be here for the rest of your life like us uh-huh okay so then went on to agenda review the first item at the agenda review before we dive into future agenda work plan is the next next week so we have location which we're thinking is the library correct yes okay so August 8th is it right to call it retreat is it a retreat and since we're doing a special meeting in the beginning of it because we have a couple of items that yeah so we're gonna have a couple of items like the vote the tabled item right now that we have I don't think you need to call it anything it will be a meeting open to the public it will have some agenda items the primary agenda item is going to be however you decide to structure your discussion and and/or

[220:00] decision-making around goals and priorities and work plan okay so then since we voted to move back to the original bylaws on the agenda then we don't have to do an agenda meeting here right now in fact everybody would be getting their stuff to us before the next meeting correct and why next Wednesday and we'll be taking the stuff that we have from this meeting that needs to be kept lumped into that one right / what we already have yep on the agenda for next yep right now we have the votes for so this is for August 8th meeting the items that we know for sure we're going to be covering which you would have here's what I have recorded the - you've specifically said would be elections for chair and vice chair and then consideration of a motion to recommend appointing a new member you

[221:00] would typically have minute approval but you there's not an urgency to that since you meet twice a month at this point so if you wanted to postpone that you could if you want to stay on top of it you could do that - it usually doesn't take you long to do that you will have public participation and then you can have I know of no matters from staff no Council items so it would be matters from the board and you can decide what you want there I my understanding is that you want a robust and significant discussion with a facilitator about your priorities goals and work plan um thank you Jeff anything else anybody wants to add so the work plan that somebody passed out that will be our next action item we're talking about oh that's something we

[222:00] talked about yeah next it's the next thing on the agenda okay but so this is just for August 8th you want to take something from the work plan and put it on the agenda for August 8th is that no I'm happy to wait till work Thank You clarity that so I think that's and then what we'll do is we get together you and I'll set a time then for and anything else that anybody's emailed us by when so everybody has to have their could we could I suggest yes I at the end of Tuesday of next week so and we'll find time on Wednesday first to set the agenda yes okay so Tuesday the 31st then Jeff and I will meet on Wednesday the first and you guys will have an email shortly thereafter well at that point we would be

[223:00] publishing the agenda that's how we left it okay so everybody and that means yeah anything that you need to put on there send it to us before then what's your action requested little byline anything like that has to be included it's that good just missing just a clarification so on the 8th you're gonna have those agenda items and then you're gonna have goals and priorities but not work plan a well it could be under goals part of our work plan but I don't think that that would move over for a facilitator would it I'm not sure what you want to accomplish okay so there's been you have at least in two meetings listed out things you want to accomplish as a board you had the survey trying to

[224:01] put it out by years I think it's collecting what I understand is I'm speculating here or making assumptions that you want to take all of that and massage it into the next iteration hopefully with some more clarity about how you will what you want to spend your time on maybe that could become a look at the work plan items and scheduling things too maybe not yeah I don't know and I think that'll be sucked out both in our paragraphs and emails that are sent to her as well as the prep work she does and then once we get there and start working on it for us so it was making it a little bit harder to plan for me anyway when I was looking at it so you can see that we've got the month up on the top and then very clear what is have business what is in front of the council for their work plan and and I guess the have business portion of it is the presentation stuff that's coming

[225:00] that kind of that's being presented to us right I think that's a fairly can be fairly broad it could be you know maybe you want to have a discussion about how you communicate it maybe each year the expectation is that boards will provide a letter to council on their goals for the coming year that's a business item if you wanted to revise your bylaws that would be a business item so there would be some that are scheduled some that you would propose the one above that would be what do you want to work on or the one the very top one is what does counsel already directed the city organization to work on that your your role is to provide advice consider and provide advice on so what we were thinking is that it would help with you know we all have our priorities and things that we're interested in doing but this way it starts you can start to fill in the boxes and see how much in a month that we're trying to accomplish as well so it was just a suggestion on a different format and you can see underneath it the items that still need to be scheduled

[226:00] that we need to put in there and and then under that where some of the proposed agenda idea and ideas that we've kind of talked about as well wanting to put in so that would be have priorities and the items to be scheduled our business right I think that's been fine way to look at it yeah yeah so again just it's just another format instead of it being all in one line because that's what we had before was just a month listed remember the original work plan and it was hard to see where we were gonna put stuff in but it was just a suggestion if it's I mean I don't know if you want to add anything to it Jeffrey nice um two observations one is the timing of the council work plan items is the timing it would come to you typically it's going to council the following month not you know that and then the other than that I don't think I made any changes to what you have already seen it was just so it's a

[227:00] reorganization to try and show you know the top line you don't control you only control whether you want to weigh in or not middle line is all you dependent on resources to support you and whether you choose to want the support or not bottom line some of the things you're kind of expected to do a lot of it's your choice so what we're also thinking is that this potentially could be used for goal-setting with Heidi on August 8th it's like taking a look at this and seeing how we want to fill in if we want to put our goals in and see how they fit as well another question I guess I'm not familiar with what the joint board meeting is with Alpine balsam who joint that's your last agenda item tonight there was a memo on it it some 8a tonight so the request that you'll be considering is to appoint random ideally two members to meet with members appointed from other boards to consider

[228:02] Alpine balsam so that won't be all of us doing that'll be two members quotes current meeting that's correct that's not a whole board thing it is not it would become a special committee during the time period of Alpine balsam yes I think that's as I understand it yeah it isn't clear so thank you Judy yeah yes just um the annual letter just a suggestion you should probably start that November quite frankly because they wanted in you know they've the city manager's office has got very tight time frame than just from the experience of doing that on planning board takes if it's a discussion takes some emails then it takes kind of formatting writing the Andrew a letter taking all the ideas that you all have agreed on thank you

[229:02] oh and one other thing is do you all get the weekly calendar that sent out by planning we just getting that once before I'm all start sending it out but I thought you know I thought the staff said you were on the list so you guys were on that distribution and somehow got pulled off and it was just brought to my attention the other day so I'll have to follow up with Cindy which I did however she is out of town this week on vacation she won't be back until sometime early next week so I'm expecting a return email from her so at the next meeting I can give you an update I can email you when I find out what's going on last week this week so I bring it up because it has every board including council that has anything the

[230:01] planning issue and you might be able to take a look at at circle the things that have to do with with you know the housing mission and then maybe added across the top or if you see it's some discussions going to another board so maybe what if she sends it to us then you and I can take a look at it and see how it fits into this to send out with the agenda stuff I mean everybody actually yeah everybody there is a limitation on it because by the time it gets scheduled you already kind of want to know about it and have it on your work plan yeah so as the staff is for example preparing the project which will be developing sub community planning what's the role of the various boards and commissions you should be you know

[231:00] and that should happen without you having to do anything ideally right and the request it usually would come from staff to staff to say okay this is coming when can we get on the board and it's not a bad idea to look at what on there especially for a new board and say you know like for example the the Human Relations Commission proposed ordinance that Judy has pointed out that's as a clear housing component and didn't yeah that connection didn't get made so monitoring is probably a really good idea so she's sending it out to us go ahead I just have a question so I think that's an excellent idea I would like to be more clear on monitored how well just go to us in general and anyone who notices that will mention it or do we really want to pick a person who follows all that stuff that said hey we may want to pay you said I mean I can see that information going out to us and just being oh well I don't have time to read it myself today I'll let somebody else worry about it and it getting lost

[232:00] so I'd like sort of an action plan and who's gonna I was just gonna say that to me personally I like several eyes on stuff like I mean how many eyes were on this one and we and we didn't catch it so it was like or HRC so I feel like everybody should always take a look at things yeah but that is it that leaves it to not happening so if you were this board chair let us all know when stuff is going on I just feel more concrete if I don't know what's going on you're get we're all getting bad information right yeah I think it would be a good thing to put in someone's plate chair or vice chair or someone else who volunteers to do that but then of course all of us are right so getting it and looking at it but if they're I don't mind doing it during agenda when we're setting up the agenda looking at it see if there's anything I need to flag right and typically that would be two of you then the chair in the vice chair that wouldn't have them right we share that responsibility in those meetings okay so

[233:06] I guess the work plan do we want to make a motion to move the work plan to this do we have to make a motion to move this right plan to this so I'm not comfortable with the work plan or discussing it in detail until after we've done the facilitation because there's too many little topics here that I don't understand and to end I'm not mr. bull with the poll that we took being taken as what our priorities are that wasn't done with my knowledge I devoted completely differently there wasn't the part on it to put our comments and I devoted completely differently so I'm not I'm not comfortable I think that we're just talking about the format though yeah that it's just that I'm talking about putting the items it's just we're just talking I don't even know if it's a motion thing necessarily we're just talking about do we want to use this kind of format already had the feeling that sometimes things are as format then the next day