November 5, 2025 — Environmental Advisory Board Regular Meeting

Transcript

Captions from City of Boulder YouTube recording.

[0:06] All right, welcome everybody to the November 5th EAB meeting, Environmental Advisory Board meeting. My name is Heather Sandin, and I'll be serving as your technical host for tonight's meeting. But I will pass it to Hannah to call the meeting to order. I call them meaning to order. Second. Great, and I'll pass back to Heather. Thanks. Secondly. Enable all my screens to share my… It's… There we go. Sweet. The City has engaged with community members to co-create

[1:03] Vision for productive, meaningful, and Inclusive Civic conversations. This vision supports physical and emotional safety for community members, staff, and board members, as well as democracy for people of all ages, identities, lived experiences, and political perspectives. For more information about this vision and the community engagement process, please visit the website seen on your screen, boulderColorado.gov forward slash services forward slash productive hyphen atmospheres, and the Boulder Revised Code Section 16B. The City will enforce the rules of decorum found in the Boulder Revised Code, Section 16B. Participants are required to speak up… sign up to speak using the name they are commonly known by, and the individuals must display their whole name before being allowed to speak online. Currently, only… only online testimony is permitted online. Audio testimony is permitted online. No attendee shall disrupt, disturb, or otherwise impede the orderly conduct of any board meeting in a manner that obstructs the business of any meeting. This also includes failing to obey any lawful order of the presiding officer to leave the physical or virtual meeting room or refrain from addressing the board.

[2:15] Only one person at a time may speak during open comment unless an accommodation, like an interpreter, is required. All remarks and testimony shall be limited to matters related to city business. No participant shall make threats or use other forms of intimidation against any person. Obscenity, other epithets based on race, gender, or religion, and other speech and behavior that disrupts or otherwise impedes the meeting will not be tolerated. Because we do not have registration for open and public comment tonight, you can indicate you would like to participate by using the raise hand function. The raise hand button is in the participation box, which can be found in the menu by hovering over the top or the bottom of your screen, and then clicking on the participant icon.

[3:00] When the box opens, you will see the raise hand button at the bottom. By clicking that button, you can indicate you would like to participate in open or public comment. If you have joined us by phone, you can press 9 to raise your hand. And before we go to open comment, my apologies, I realized that I got ahead of myself, and we did not do approval for minutes, so do you want to do that before? But yeah, I called to approve the minutes. Cube. Sorry, my screens keep switching on me. So, give me notes. Great. Looks like we do have some members of the public joining us. We have, I see Lynn Siegel has her hand up. Lynn, you'll have 3 minutes to speak, and, I will unmute you.

[4:02] Yeah, for starters, I was just trying to find out, on your agenda, why don't you have public comment on the agenda? I oftentimes… I follow about 10 city boards. It's really hard to do. I'm sorry, I'm just doing the best I can, but many of them conflict, and this is an example of one. Luckily, Landmark's board tonight is not… had something removed from the agenda. Unfortunately, a hotel by Tebow at 11th and Spruce that I had been following, and I am kind of Kind of anxious now about what happened with that, because he wanted to put in a whole new accessory building there, and I've been watching it for some time, but they're not entertaining it, so I jumped to you for the first time in probably 10 years, or 5 years, that I've testified at EAB, because Landmarks Board is a priority for me. I don't like to see these properties going into the landfill, as I've seen many. I mean, the case in point, and this was Landmarks, but it relates directly to you, was an 8,000 square foot, $6.1 million demolition

[5:16] at 770 Circle Place, which is at Baseline and, Flagstaff, basically, very close to that. On the WUI, made of flagstone by a Hobie Wagner or somebody, a famous architect, and… Landmarks Board actually allowed it to be demoed in LDRC, which is unrecorded. It's unprecedented, what goes on with Landmark Spoard, and without your eyes on it, because, you know, you're the EAB. Well, like I said, I'm sorry, I'm doing the best I can. And… The fact that… that that building… and it hasn't been… it hasn't been demoed yet, because…

[6:06] Some people that bought it from England as a second home to build a new place there and demo it sold it. And now it… probably, it's now been a couple years, and it has to go before demolition again, and God forbid that it will go before demolition again, and pass, and certainly not an LDRC, without it even being recorded. I mean, this happens, this kind of stuff does happen. You wouldn't believe this stuff. And you guys don't even have it ever involved with you. This is called carbon footprint destruction in a landfill for nothing. 1015 Juniper. Oh, because it's on the confluence zone, and they can't expand it the way they wanted. It was like a $5 million giveaway. This is what's happening, under your eyes. Do you see why I have to go there and not come to EAB? You know, you're talking about water tonight, and that's really important to me. I think we need a carbon footprint per person in Boulder that includes water, police, fire, all services, rec centers, libraries, all of that stuff, and then we need to control our population.

[7:15] Based on the carbon footprint of each human that goes into each planning board. Thank you, Lynn. I'm glad you could make it tonight, but unfortunately, the 3 minutes is up. I'm… I do not see anybody else's hand up. We'll give just a second to see if anyone else wants to speak. Seeing no hands, we can move on to the next agenda item. water supply overview. Thanks, Board. I'll do a quick tee-up here, and one of the things I just wanted to acknowledge, and one of the things that Lynn was talking about is demolition, and as you know, one of the things the board has talked about is having

[8:10] better visibility into the deconstruction. Obviously, we do have a deconstruction ordinance that requires, 75% of waste across at least 3 sectors be reused or recycled, and there are some challenges with that, and we're going to be talking about how to strengthen that ordinance to make sure that we really recognize the importance of the deconstructibility of our buildings. And so, just want to appreciate Lynn for being here and always watching this issue with respect to embodied carbon in our built environment. So I'm really excited, to have this conversation with the board tonight, and to have our Water Resources Manager, Ken Hutton, here with us to give a really great presentation. I've seen this before. This was a presentation and a topic that was before City Council, I think, at the beginning of August? Around then? Okay. And…

[9:01] we weren't able to have this come to the board in advance of that, which is okay. It was an informational item for Council, and so that suggested that this was timely to bring it before you all to just get an update on the City's water supply, how we assess that supply, and one of the things that I've just been really impressed with him and her team is really looking at Some of the forecasts around, the climate forecasts, and then looking at those scenarios. And understanding the stressors, and how does it change water supply in the out years, and so I don't need to say any more about that. That's exactly what Kim is going to be talking about. But again, we have here tonight to give that briefing, and she can talk about some next steps, and I can just turn it over to you. That's alright. Yeah, thank you. Thank you, everybody. So I… I was having some technical difficulties with sharing, so Heather's gonna do the, present the slides, and I will be saying, next slide, please, so that I can look at my notes. This was a presentation put together by,

[10:05] Crystal Morey on my team, and so I'll be using some of her speaker notes as I talk through it, but, let Heather pull that up, but tonight, yeah, I just wanted to talk to you about water supply. I think if it's okay if you all, as I go through, you're welcome to stop me and ask questions. I'll pause throughout the presentation as well and see if you've got anything. About the section we just talked about. And, Yeah, and looking forward to the discussion. titling it Water Supply Overview, and on the next slide… well, I guess I just want to mention, I'm going to be talking to you about the municipal water supply, which is essentially water that we get from a source, we treat it, and we deliver it to customers. The Open Space Department has their own water rights portfolio. I'm in the Utilities Department, so that's… we manage the municipal water supply. The Open Space Department also has a water rights portfolio.

[11:09] They manage water for agricultural purposes, and that's a separate matter that I won't be addressing tonight, so we'll just be focusing again on municipal water supply. Next slide, Denise. So, topics to cover tonight. First, I just want to provide some context on water in the state of Colorado, and how the state approaches its water planning. And then we'll dive into, locally, Boulder. I'll give an overview of what our current supplies are, and then talk to you a little bit about, how we do our water supply planning and some projections we made for availability into the future. Next slide. So this… Next slide, here we go. This is a graphic that the state has put together, and you might see it in some other presentations. It's the map of Colorado. The dark blue line is the Continental Divide, and there's some facts on there about water in the state of Colorado.

[12:15] Our current way of life in Colorado really is dependent on extensive water projects and development of water projects. Around 80% of Colorado's water falls on the west slope of the Continental Divide. But 90% of Colorado's population is on the east side. And so, to help with that disparity, there are over 27 different water diversion projects that have been developed, Both public and private, that carry water from the west slope to the east slope. And then another fun fact, I've got lots of fun facts, I guess, on here, but 90% of the water in the state of Colorado is used by the agricultural sector, 7% by municipalities, and 3% by industries. In addition.

[13:06] So… So, the snow that falls in Colorado, when it melts, it flows downstream and provides water to other states, so Colorado is known as a headwater state for that reason. The Colorado River Compact, which you've been hearing about in the news, I'm sure, is just one of nine interstate compacts that dictates how water that starts in Colorado's mountains is allocated among other states in the western U.S. Okay, next slide. I have a quick question. Yeah. Are there… is it ever the case where agriculture and municipalities are drawing from the same source? And… and if there is a lower volume, does those percentages stay, applied to a lower volume, or does agriculture give a precedence? So, the way water is allocated within the state of Colorado is on a prior appropriations system, so it's Colorado water law.

[14:13] Basically states whoever put the water to use first and got a legal recognition of that, has priority to use the water in times of shortage. So, throughout the state of Colorado. water is administered, on this priority system. And in fact, this map right here is showing Colorado is divided into seven basins for water rights purposes. Boulder is in the South Platte Basin, so… there's a priority-based system that exists for the South Platte Basin, and… some of the most… Boulder has some very senior water rights. A lot of the… but most of the senior water rights in this basin originated as agricultural water rights, and then the municipalities came… came around a little bit later, and started to develop their own water rights. And so, there is a sh… kind of a sharing mechanism. Maybe just as an example in Boulder Creek.

[15:13] there are many, many, many water rights that… that pull off of Boulder Creek, and the most senior water right, is… belongs to a near… a ditch company. However, municipalities over time have purchased shares in those ditch companies, so as farmers no longer care to farm, they may sell their water rights to others, to municipalities, and so there are for this number one water ride on Boulder Creek, both, farmers municipalities. using this water. Gotcha. How's that? Does that… does that help? Yeah, it's a complicated, system we have in… in the state of Colorado for water rights administration, but it is… it is kind of a priority-based system.

[16:04] Within continuing, like, on the… on that, idea of water allocation, in the South Platte Basin in particular, in the state of Colorado, there are more… there's a higher demand for water than there is supply. And so, that priority-based system does come into play, frequently. But when we talk about maybe developing new water supplies for our community or others, because water is over-allocated. There's more demand than supply. There's very, very little that anyone can do when developing new water supplies that won't affect someone… someone else, or an existing use. So it's something that we think about when we're… we're thinking about water supply planning. Impacted parties, you know, your neighboring companies who might be

[17:02] you know, a lot of our neighbors to the east are growing, right? So they're looking to increase their supply. agricultural water users. It's a limited resource, so where's the water gonna come from? And of course, and then there's the environment. And I'll speak a little bit later about some environmental uses of water, but in essence, the way water was This, this system was developed, in 1800. a beneficial use of water is one that takes water out of the river and puts it to use for municipal purposes, agriculture, environmental, or industrial uses. Well, it wasn't until maybe the 1970s, that our state started recognizing, you know, there are actual beneficial uses to keeping the water in the streams. And so, some new types of water rights have developed over time that keep water in the river for recreation, for aquatic habitat.

[18:02] All sorts of uses. the… and just one more thing about water rights. I did… I think Heather included a couple memos in your packet tonight. that we wrote for City Council, this summer, and one of them, I think the July 24th City Council memo, has a little bit more information about water rights and the history of Boulder's water supply development, so that's a place that you can go to get a little bit more information if you're interested, and there's There's a lot out there on the whip as well. Next slide. Alright, so in the state of Colorado, the state itself has a water plan, and it's called the Colorado Water Plan. And that plan evaluates a range of water futures, out to the year 2050, because there are significant uncertainties tied to areas like climate change, growth, social values. The plan… Colorado Water Plan uses a scenario planning approach.

[19:06] That focuses on, plausible range of futures. outcome of the 2023 water plan analysis for the South Platte Basin, which is where Boulder is. The Colorado Water Plan projects a gap of 500,000 to 800,000 acre-feet per year of water. by 2050 across the scenarios. And just for context. Boulder uses 17,000 acre-feet per year, so that's 30 to 50 times what Boulder uses. It's two to three times what Denver uses. And so this is, again, looking at future needs in the state… in the South Platte Basin by growing We got a lot of people moving into… the South Platte Basin, so… Sorry, can you explain the graphic there? Yeah, so,

[20:00] So, there are… there are a lot of variables that affect What supply might be, what demand might be. And as you go out in time, those variables become more and more uncertain. So climate change is a driver that's a good example of this. Right now, we know what our climate is. We know how climate affects water availability, meaning how… precipitation, for example. And how precipitation translates to streamflow and water available for us to use. But as we go out in time, with climate change as a driver, we're not in… less and less certainty about how the climate will affect water availability. And so those blue squiggle lines kind of show how, Depending on how climate change goes, it could be a range a range of conditions in the future, and so…

[21:00] as you kind of go out on, say, the x-axis there, if you will, that's going out in time. 2023 was where we're at now, the end of that graph, or images. the year 2050, and so… So that would be water supply, different scenarios. Yeah, it's… that could… that could kind of, represent what the… What additional water demands? Would be in the year 2050, and they would range from down low to up high, depending on how climate change goes, how, How people conserve water, you know, water conservation practices. Okay, so it's more water demand. Yeah, and this really is just, It… it's just a rep… a visual to sort of show you how Any variable is gonna vary. vary over time. The uncertainty will get greater and greater, as you look out to the future. Okay. Yeah.

[22:07] And those numbers… those lines don't remember… don't really represent any specific number right now. Alright, next slide, please. So we'll take a closer look to home. This map, this is a map of… say we're out east over Lafayette, looking west, Towards the Continental Divide. Boulder is that area in the red, towards the bottom of the screen. So this… this map shows what the… what Boulder's water supply… the sources of Boulder's water supply are. We've got three sources. Two of them are in the Boulder Creek Basin, and they're shown in those two polygons on the left there. The North Boulder Creek watershed and the Middle Boulder Creek watershed. And about two-thirds of our supply come from those two basins. Water is,

[23:02] Most of our water comes in the form of snow in the wintertime. That water melts, we store it in reservoirs, and then as we need it, we deliver it to our water treatment plant through pipelines. And water goes to the Batassa Water Treatment Plant, which is just up the hill off of Sugarloaf here. Water's treated there, and then we send it through a distribution system that goes out to our customers in that red hatched area. I also want to note that we've got hydropower in our system there. because water is going from a very high elevation to a lower elevation, both to the treatment plants and then into town, there's a lot of pressure that builds up, and we need to reduce that pressure before we distribute it to our customers. So we use hydropower to reduce pressure, and we have our… Our… the city has 8, hydropower facilities that we manage and operate. And then the other third of our water comes from the western slope, so Colorado River.

[24:08] About a third of the water comes from the headwaters of the Colorado River through projects that are operated by the Northern Colorado Water Conservancy District. And those areas are identified in the tan. They're on both sides of the divide. Again, water is collected, and the river is transported through the Continental Divide in a very large tunnel, and then it's distributed to people in the South Platte Basin, through canals. pipelines. Boulder is one of many, entities that receives water from these projects, and… we take that water, you can see a red dashed line coming from the right side of the screen to the center. That's actually a pipeline going from Carter Lake in Lyons to the Boulder Reservoir Water Treatment Plant. So we've got two water treatment plants in our town, one on either side.

[25:04] That we use and operate as well. Alright, next slide. So, talking about our municipal water supply that we manage, the primary use, of course, is tied to providing reliable, treated water to homes and businesses in our community. But because water availability can vary so dramatically from year to year, there are years in which Boulder has surplus supply. And when we have surplus, we use it for non-municipal purposes. This graphic here depicts the relative intensity of both the municipal and non-municipal uses of water. So the non-municipal uses of water, I'll describe briefly for you all. First one is in-stream flow, and I mentioned Historically, water is diverted out of rivers. In, 19… in the 1990s, Boulder donated, some water rights to the state of Colorado.

[26:06] for in-stream flow protection purposes, and so we manage that in-stream flow program on behalf of the state, and that keeps minimum flows in Boulder Creek. typically in August and September, and then in the winter months, portions of Boulder Creek would go dry without this in-stream flow program. Then there's agricultural leasing. they're… Every year, we evaluate what our water needs are for the year, and we determine if we have any surplus supply. If we do have surplus, then we will lease it out on an annual basis to farmers, and this is a way to supplement their water supply, their irrigation water supply. Hydropower is another use of our water. I mentioned that we've got these 8 hydropower facilities in our system.

[27:00] Most of the power that's generated at these facilities is an incidental use. of our municipal water supply operations. So the water's running through the pipes. We put hydros in the pipes. It's just going through there anyway. And that's kind of represented in that light blue. But there is some water. There are times when we just run water solely to generate hydropower. We don't need it for municipal. uses, but that's a small fraction, and that's kind of represented in that dark blue, on the left side of that… that bar there. And then finally, downstream water users also benefit from some operational decisions that we… we make. That leaves excess water in the creek throughout the year, so if we're not using the water, it's available to other water users downstream from us. For the last 3G made money. So agricultural leasing, we do charge, but we… we do it pretty much at cost, because we have to pay assessments for most of the water rights that we own, and so we're just trying to recover our costs in doing so. Hydropower, we do…

[28:14] some power purchase agreements with Excel and Tri-State, and we make about $1.5 to $1.7 million per year in revenue from selling power. those, those entities, and then the downstream users, there's no revenue from that one. Yeah, it's just changing our operations. And keeps the creek wet in the process as well. I had a slide before which showed something about I think statewide you said 97% is agriculture, and 3% is municipalities, something like that. 90% is agriculture, 7% is municipal use, and 3% is industrial. Within the town of City of Boulder, what's the

[29:04] It's… that's a… that's a hard statistic to generate, and we've been asked that question before, we just don't have that information. And you'd have to do that analysis either for, like, the entire Boulder Creek Basin, and it just hasn't been done. But there is a lot of irrigated agriculture that's supported in the Boulder Creek Basin. But not necessarily in the city of Boulder. In the city of Boulder, there… I think that agriculture is more of, like, the… it's not really urban agriculture, I think. It's more of the rural agricultural practices, and so I think you could look at maybe How much irrigated land does our open space department own? But I don't really have that breakdown. Yeah.

[30:04] I was gonna talk about future water supply planning next, but are there any other questions about our current supply and what we're doing? Okay, I will move on. So, a fundamental component of Boulder's water management includes projecting future water demands. And modeling the water supply system's ability to meet those demands. The planning is based on population and employment projections and policies that are set forth in the Boulder Valley Comprehensive Plan. I think you… you all were visited by planning staff, this fall to give out an update to the comprehensive… So, as Jonathan mentioned, we put together this information on this summer. for Council to provide them with some of this fundamental information to consider as they were reviewing and updating the Boulder Valley Comp Plan. So, as part of that, what… we don't have all the analyses and careful planning today to fully answer how changes in the call plan would trickle down to our water supply planning, but

[31:12] we were able to do, put together some analyses and prepare some future water availability projections to help inform Council on future risks. to Boulder's water supply and trade-offs as they do consider changes in the comp plan. And so I'll present those modeling results in the next slide, but I just wanted to mention that after the call plan has… the update has been completed, we intend on embarking on an updated water supply plan ourselves. The last… Water plant that we have was done in 2009, and that's kind of our guiding document. We would like to update that plan with any policy changes that come out of the call plan update.

[32:00] In terms of the recycling and cleaning of wastewater, would that fall into the water source water protection, or… Does that… that be a separate… This future plan that we're intending on doing, or the… or the… we actually… the city does have a source water protection plan, is that what you're… Yeah, so I guess Source Water Protection Plan, that would… from my understanding, I would think that would come from, like, your surface, or your… your aquifers, or whatever sources, nature kind of sources. Then, in terms of, like, the efficiency or the volume of water that can be recycled through wastewater and whatnot. I'm just wondering where that would fall within, these… Oh, I see what you're saying. Yeah, that would… that is, something that we would look at probably in the source water plan level, and that's a, because it's considering water rights as well.

[33:00] there are some water rights that can be reused, other white… water rights that can only be used one time. And so, we have to balance, what we… what we own or have rights to, and where we do have the ability to reuse some water we are looking to develop the ability to kind of recycle that water. It… It would probably, that would be in the form not of… let's treat it, like with Westminster, a couple other communities around us, Denver, they have… Next to their wastewater plant, they have then another water treatment plant that treats it yet to another level, and then they distribute it through Purple Pipe, say, the irrigate golf courses. That would be a difficult endeavor, or an expensive endeavor for Boulder, because one, we're already a built-out city, so you'd be tearing up a lot of roads to run new pipes. But the wastewater plant is also downhill.

[34:00] from the rest of town, and so you'd have to be pumping water back into town if you were to kind of clean it up at the wastewater plant, try to reuse it. So we'd be looking at different mechanisms to reuse. water. One mechanism is called an exchange, but it's kind of like a trade. So we put the water back in the river at the wastewater plant. We take a like amount of water, maybe upstream. Where we already have existing water supply facilities. Okay, next slide, please. So I'll talk a little bit about the modeling that we did this summer. Again, talking about scenario planning, because there's so much uncertainty tied to future conditions, similar to what the state has done in that graphic that we were just talking about, we also used a scenario planning approach in our water supply. So to avoid running every… and I'll show you what we've done, but…

[35:03] To avoid running, every possible scenario that could be out there for the future, and ending up with thousands of results, we selected, or we developed four scenarios that we analyzed. And, we, again, went out to the year 2050. This is the same… a similar time horizon for the comprehensive plan. But I'll note that water… long-range water supply planning typically looks 50 years to the future, so when we do our own, water supply update. Following the comp plan, we will probably be looking at a 50-year planning horizon as opposed to a 20-year planning horizon. But I'll go ahead and get into the scenarios that we modeled. Next slide, please. So, the four scenarios that we looked at are at the top of the screen, and I'll describe them for you. The optimistic and severe scenarios represent more extreme or bookend scenarios.

[36:04] Whereas the continuing trends in stress scenarios are more moderate projections. Our first scenario is an optimistic one. Where warming is less severe and doesn't significantly impact our water supplies. Continued trends assumes climate change results in the Colorado Front Range as a whole, beginning to experience minor reductions in water supply. Stress assumes the western United States experiences significant water stress. That stress sparks significant policy changes on the Colorado River. And the last scenario is more pessimistic in nature and assumes intense forming that has a detrimental impact on regional water supplies. Okay, cookie. Okay. And for these four scenarios, we've identified four primary drivers. Two of which represent supply-focused drivers, and two of which represent demand-focused drivers.

[37:06] So the climate-driven streamflow changes, those range from a 10% increase in streamflow in an optimistic future. All the way down to a 30% decrease in streamflow in the severe future. The first three scenarios encapsulate the climate change risks that have been identified in the Colorado Water Plan, but the fourth scenario goes beyond what the state has modeled in severity, and we take a look at just some more severe scenarios than the state did. And then for the Colorado River impacts, there are significant unknowns related to major policy decisions that are outside of the city's control. So with those uncertainties in mind. Under two of the four scenarios, we are assuming water stress under the Colorado River either will not be significant enough to trickle down and directly impact Boulder's water supply, or there will be mitigation projects that Boulder could participate in.

[38:08] And then under the other two scenarios. We do assume climate change will invoke water stress. Or enough water stress to result in moderate and major decreases to Boulder's Colorado River supplies. Okay, they're all up there. Okay, I have mine going step by step, but this is good. Yeah, no, great. Leave it here. On the demand-focused drivers… First one I'll talk about is the climate-driven irrigation changes. So this assumes or recognizes that our urban landscapes will need more water to survive and thrive as temperatures increase. And then the last one is additional water conservation. And that recognizes that with increased water scarcity, the motivation and uptake of water conservation strategies would increase.

[39:08] Water conservation achievements to date are already considered across all scenarios. Under the optimistic and continued trends scenarios, we would anticipate increased efficiency that is in line with our current water efficiency plan. And as water stress worsens, we assume water conservation efforts would ramp up to things that are achievable with major capital expenditures. I guess for the last line, I'm not sure if I'm understanding it correctly. So, let me say back to you. You're assuming that as climate change gets worse. People would use less water. In general, because they would feel bad, or it would be more costly, or something like that. Okay, yeah. And then the idea… But I guess if we're thinking about the overall water supply, shouldn't that be put more on, like, agriculture than us as individuals? Like, would that be balanced out? Because if I'm seeing

[40:04] oh, I'm gonna have, like, decreased water supplies as an individual, but my agriculture farm uses 90% of my water, I'm probably not gonna be too happy. And I'm vegetarian, so I don't even benefit from that. I feel like I would just, like, I feel like I understand where you're going, but if I'm an individual, like, that just seems really unfair to me when I'm, like, really not the problem. And some of it is we, you know, we're trying to manage live within our means. We've got a set amount of… right now, we've got our water supply. So how do we make that go further? So when… If demand is gonna increase, say, to grow the same type of, lands… support the same type of landscaping, we're gonna need more water. So to live within Earth. Our existing water supply, do we then… Switch our landscaping? Do we decrease our uses, so that we're not…

[41:06] supporting the same level of landscaping, or the same type of landscaping, and that's an example of that. If we… and I'll get into this a little bit later, but if we… If the climate does warm, and we want to maintain the same level of green in our community. we're going to need to be using more water, and we're going to have to go find some more water. So we could go out and turn to the agricultural community and say. You should be more efficient. And let me buy, then, some of your water rights, but that has an impact on the agricultural community as well. So it's balancing, You know, kind of, what are all the values? that folder has, and in the comp plan, it does recognize that folder… Supporting local agriculture is a community value, so there's a lot that we're looking at balancing.

[42:00] When we do this planning, yeah. So, pivoting off of that question. Have… has there been any type of analysis done on the… I guess. Cost effectiveness, or… kind of the biggest benefit for the least amount of cost? Like, would you say procuring, or buying up, you know. Water rights is kind of like… to increase the volume, that would be the first priority, and then after that would be, like, water efficiency, and then after that would be a water recycling. You're getting… getting ahead of me. I'll talk about that later, but yeah, yes, it's… It is on our mind, and I'll tell you how we're thinking about that. And then, second, and if it's ahead, just let me know. Has there been an analysis on the economic contribution different water usage is like. So, water is, like, like, reliance. The city to function properly needs this much of volume, and this is the economic activity associated with that, versus agriculture, versus industry.

[43:06] Has that been done? Is that part of the conversation? I think that is… I think that is something that has been done more at the state level, and I guess I shouldn't say I know specifically about an economic analysis that has been done, but I think that type of thing would be done at the state level, and it may have been part of the water plan, state water plan as well. We haven't done that, at the local level. No. And I guess my other question is, how did you take into consideration, the increase of data centers, which are having huge impacts on other communities throughout Colorado and beyond in water usages and costs of water? And in our modeling, it's been a newer training, so if you did this before, that became, like, a big… Yeah, we haven't considered… Data centers, the expansion of water use in our community. Because we don't really have any, and we're not… I think IBM might be a data center, but it's an existing condition for us, and we're not…

[44:05] For the horizon that we did this analysis, we weren't considering any additional uses by data centers. Can I just make one… back to one of your earlier comments, and I just wanted to bring this in as you were talking about, just thinking about our natural systems and the amount of water that they're going to need. It's one of the reasons that our department is really trying to get out ahead of that issue to say. Again, a lot of the research is showing that with mature tree canopies, as an example, you're actually conserving a lot of water. They are outdoor heat pumps, essentially. So. the reason that I bring that up is that the sooner we get on building that mature canopy now, the better, because now we start to rehydrate our soils in a way that actually holds moisture. And so we've been doing a lot of pioneering research on understanding how carbon and water track together. So, essentially, carbon follows water.

[45:03] And this is why we have spent a lot of time building up our Nature-Based Solutions team in the climate space, and it connects very deliberately to thinking about the long-term forecasting and water needs. But no one has this totally figured out. I mean, we've been using a lot of the modeling and a lot of the research to drive some of our policy actions, and that's why you're seeing it come up Whether it's in our landscaping codes, in our building codes, and driving a lot of work that we do. And on your comment about data centers, I think it's a really good one, and there's a lot of speculation and talk right now about what we're seeing statewide, what we're seeing nationally, what we're seeing globally. I was just on a call earlier today with colleagues in Australia. They were saying, what are you all doing about this huge, big, sticky issue about data centers? A lot of it is being driven, of course, by utilities who are talking about projects that they are reserving capacity for, but what I will say is that the majority of those are not tracking. We're not seeing the growth that about a year ago, when utilities all over the country, like, we have to reserve capacity, and so everyone thought.

[46:08] whoa, that's the capacity we anticipate seeing from data centers. Now, I'm not… I'm not diminishing the fact that, yes, they are incredibly resource intensive, for sure. We, just as Kim was saying, the one that we do have, IBM, which is now Kindrel, we do… are starting to have conversations about what is their long-term forecasting. Are they going to grow? Are they going to double, triple in size? We don't know. How would that impact our local resources, and how can we, respond to that, whether it be in our own codes, but the state is doing this, too. They're looking at really aggressive policy to say, how do we regulate the growth of this industry? Because it is pretty substantial when you look at statewide implications, for sure, so… Supposed to say that. interruption really quickly. This topic is really fascinating to me. In your opinion.

[47:00] where is the agricultural industry, at least within Colorado, on… implementing, kind of, best practices and water efficiency, do they have a lot of room for improvement in terms of, like, rip irrigation, other, you know, conservation measures? Yeah, yeah, there certainly is room for improvement, and I… There's a lot of initiatives and partnerships out there to. It… most of it comes down to funding, right? And so, provide the funding to help, The industry become more efficient. who's providing the funding, some of it's coming from the state, but there's partnerships between municipalities and farmers. Municipalities will fund for efficiency improvements, and then there are some laws in the state that now allow, like, a municipality to kind of take advantage of that, the amounts, the savings, to sort of transfer that over to municipal use. There's also, though, the interest in,

[48:08] sustain… keep maintaining the agricultural economy, and… And so, rather than some other practices, shared practices, look at maybe, maybe a farmer will fallow some of their fields on a rotating basis, and the water that is not used on one field one year then is used by a municipality. So these water-sharing practices that continue to support both Agriculture and municipal interests. Alright, we can go to the next slide. Okay, so we took the four scenarios that we just described and ran those through our water supply system model to identify where we had surplus and gaps.

[49:03] This slide is talking about our overarching water supply policy, which we call our reliability criteria, and it's essentially our level of service goals. These were established in 1988, so… Might be time to take another look at them, but they aim to balance the costs And environmental impacts of increased reliability, with the consequences of temporary water shortages. And they dictate that around 95% of the time, we want our water system to be reliable enough not to require any sort of water use restrictions. And then in some years. We allow for outdoor watering restrictions that range from lawns going dormant to landscapes dying, and in an extremely rare condition, we might consider indoor water use restrictions as well. So for the four scenarios that I described. Even if that scenario experienced a shortage, modeled shortage in supplies.

[50:02] one or a few of the years. As long as the shortages were less severe than the reliability criteria, we would consider that a passing model run, and we would say our supply is reliable. So all this to say is, we do allow for shortages. water shortages. Is that nearly 1 in 1 out of 1,000 units? Yes. That is how it is written. Essentially, it's saying, basically, like, but for an ex- very extreme situation, we will, yeah, we will not reduce indoor block use. So, so this is the… the, The ideal kind of outcome, or they… this is not dictated by like, current or future conditions. This is… Yeah, this is the criteria around which we have built our water supply system, so… Okay, so this is what we're trying to achieve. We do not want to have… Yeah. We do not want to have water restrictions or more…

[51:06] 5 out of 100 years? Yes. Okay. Yeah, unless these were issued by City Council, so to get it changed, it would have to be city, isn't it? It was, it was… so we had… It was the City Council that approved it in 1988. It was another one of our water planning efforts, so we're… we would bring this… if we're going to give you water policy, yeah, we would bring it to City Council. And we've been able to achieve this since 1988. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, true? Yeah. Let's see, where do we want to go next here? Okay, so let's skip to the results of our modeling, and I'll walk you through this here. So this is an example of a passing model run. This is a reference scenario using historic data, so there's… it hasn't been adjusted for climate yet, historical climate conditions. The gray bar represents average water demands associated with today's population.

[52:09] And the blue water supply droplet represents the sustainable water supply that's available. When the demand bar is well below the water droplet, as it is in this case, that indicates we have a surplus in our water supply, and when the bar rises above the droplet, that indicates that we would have a potential gap in supply. Let's see here… Can you go back one more slide? Okay, this one here, call out the 10% factor of safety. We built in, a factor of safety into our demands. To encapsulate some risks that can't be effectively modeled, like natural disasters and infrastructure outages. I also want to point out, so these demands, the water demands, again, represented by the gray bar, they've been adjusted up for climate change, and then down for water conservation. And the amount of water conservation that we are kind of achieving in these scenarios is represented sort of by that gray hatched line above the gray bar.

[53:18] Okay, now we can go to the next one. So, this is kind of the… again, we analyze these four scenarios, and here's the outcome of the modeling runs. So, in three of the four scenarios, optimistic, continued trends, and stressed. We have sufficient supply to meet demands associated with Boulder's current population. Again, no… no additional growth out to the year 2050. And then that severe scenario might look a bit intimidating, so we've got a potential supply gap there, but the conditions, again, that we're modeling. in this scenario are… they would fundamentally alter Western United States' relationship with water, and Boulder is in a, frankly, a far better position than other communities are at this time.

[54:09] Next slide. So then, we, of course, are anticipating population growth, and so these orange bars represent the additional demands from population growth. We understand our current population water demands very well, but water demands that are tied to growth. Can be harder to project, and this is because most growth… most growth in boulder is affiliated with both infill and redevelopment. We don't have a lot of new land development… to develop. As an example, dense apartment complexes can use significantly less water per person than triplexes or single-family homes. And for redevelopment, the net impact to the city's overall water demand is dependent on how much water was used on the site prior to redevelopment.

[55:08] Yeah. Right now, there's no type of… probability assigned to any of these four strains. That's correct, yeah. And scientific community would tell you there's… you can't assign probability to their climate projections. So based on this information, this data. I think Boulder has a pretty robust water supply that can reliably meet Demands, that include anticipated growth under Many of those, Climate scenarios and the other scenarios, variables that we've modeled. But there still could be some risks that we need to consider for future planning. And so, again, we want to continue this investigation and evaluating risks through this integrated water supply plan, which we talked about doing after the comp plan. Is this assuming water rates stay exactly how they are?

[56:06] water rates? Right, like the amount… Right, yes, exactly, yeah. And we assume those would stay the same, there's no… they don't just randomly change. Yes, exactly. And I'll talk about… First, I'm gonna… I just want to mention, so some of these scenarios have a… Supply, surplus? Others have a gap, and so if you go to the next slide, I just want to talk about what do we do in these… under these scenarios where we have a surplus? This is… the years of surplus are… these are scenarios where we can still grow into our water supply, so existing water rights, we're not going to change anything, we have room to grow. But as we grow into the water rights that we have. some of these surplus non-municipal uses will be affected. We'll have less surplus water to dedicate to them, so agricultural leasing is likely to go down in the future. The amount of water we're leaving in the stream for downstream users is going to decrease, and then to some extent.

[57:12] our in-stream flow protection might decrease as well. Our in-stream flow program is tied to, water use restrictions. So if we're having to implement water use restrictions more frequently, that might affect the amount of water that we have available to leave in the rivers. And then… next slide, please. This one talks about… If we need to develop new water supply. And again, this is something really to be further, explored in an integrated water supply plan that's coming. So, Adam, to get to your question about how… what are we looking at, and how do we prioritize An integrated water supply plan really… I guess fundamentally how I would describe it is we're looking at demand management and supply management, and how are we balancing the two? So, is it…

[58:09] worth… our investment to make, advancements in water conservation, or do you put that investment into developing new supplies, acquiring new supplies? New supplies. They're hard to come by these days, they're very expensive, and it takes a long time to develop them. So, what we're kind of laying out here are three different levels of New water… water supply development that we could do. Right now, we're sort of functioning in the stretch level. Basically, how do we stretch our existing supplies to make them go further? And as we get into maybe looking at needing more supplies, we get into these different levels of partnership or competition. If we were to have to function in the space of competition, this is definitely a water management strategy that we're not

[59:07] we're not in right now, and… however, some other communities are. So, this is… again, we will… we will continue this investigation as we do a deeper dive into our water… water planning in the future, and we'll be looking at these, these trade-offs, costs, you know, and developing a water management strategy going forward. How closely do you guys work with the nature-based team? I'm asking, because I remember last month, Brett was saying. we did something, maybe someone else remember exactly what it was, around desertification, and it, like, impacted the snowback in the mountains. Do you know what I'm talking about? Yeah. So it's, like, that… that is a way to stretch, potentially, our supply. Yeah, what is… he was talking about the desertification analysis that we've been doing, or conducting with Boulder County to look at some of our agricultural lands between, you know, out in the county. And when you see the loss of that topsoil, what happens during wind events? It is a smaller version of what we see

[60:17] with big dust storms coming from the southwest, whether Arizona, Nevada, and when you see that dust settle on our snowpack, obviously, it induces quicker melting, so I think it was a little bit of that. It was the opposite. Yeah. Is there a way of something we can do that would get more snow? What is the negative effect? Well, you know, it's another way. Yeah. I mean, there's… people are looking at cloud seeding. Yeah. That's true. Yes, they are. 5 square miles of regenerative agriculture, with a certain… there's a measurable amount of rain it can precipitate. Yes, that's what I…

[61:00] My reaction positive as well. And then, just one more slide, and that's our takeaway. Thank you for bearing with me, but, key takeaways. And again, this was kind of prepared for Council, so maybe some of the stuff is more relevant to them. But, first. I think at this point, we are in a good position with our water supply right now. And even considering some of the moderate climate change impacts and anticipated growth, we're in a good position. But due to some uncertainty that exists, there are still risks to our supplies that should be considered when we're planning for the future. we're not alone. The whole region is dealing with water supply uncertainty that comes with climate change, and we're all trying to plan for unprecedented conditions. And then finally, the information That we put together, through these modeling runs. The intent was to provide a sense of risks that can impact our water supply and trade-offs to consider when looking at future policy changes to the Comp Plan.

[62:05] And then… but we'd like to do a deeper dive into planning, So that we really are position… positioning ourselves well to have a reliable supply for the future. That's what I've got, thank you. Like, everyone. We're positive. Yeah, this is really positive. Given how, like, generally positive it is, are there any… and there are probably other priorities that don't look as good, are there any actions you're currently doing, like, projects around? water conservation, are you doing any, like, conservation projects? Kind of just, like, same old, same old? Because it is pretty positive, I mean. Yeah, no, we are… What you hear in the news about other places. Yeah, I mean, we've… a lot of this are good… the position we're in goes back to… I don't know, some really great planning from previous generations, and related to our growth policies, right? We're not… if you look at Aurora, you know, they're growing very, very quickly. Erie's growing very, very quickly, and they're

[63:07] they're scrambling to find water to meet their growing demand, so I think our growth policies have helped, us stay on top of our planning. But that said, we are definitely, engaging in water conservation. We've got a water conservation program. That… trying to ramp up a bit. Some other communities have more robust programs than we have, but there certainly is community interest out there. I mean, our communities just, they want to do the right thing, right? And sometimes we get calls, it's dry. it's not dry enough that we would need to implement water use restrictions, because we've got, you know, we've planned for dry times as well. We'll get calls from community members saying. We should… why aren't you implementing water use restrictions? So, our community members really do… they're… they're very tuned in, I think, to the climate we live in and, water use practices, and so we're trying to develop, through our water conservation program, really just, like, information

[64:07] That, we can provide that really lends itself to, like, how do you use water wisely? Also, Ed… sorry. Well, I'll make it quick. A couple other areas that I think I just wanted to connect to that are also tracking, obviously, the comp plan is taking a renewed look at water more broadly, the policies that are ongoing right now that Council is adopting, the water-wise and fire-wise landscaping ordinance. really starts to use a lot of this background and data in terms of how do we plan for the future, and so I think that one is a really clear example of how we can come up with an approved landscape… landscaping improved plant list to start to signal that how do we make sure we're not trending to the right side of those charts in terms of the extreme? Doing what we can do now, because

[65:00] It matters, the decisions that we're making today. Would it be possible to bring up the second and the last slide? If not, that's okay. I… I'm not sure if this has been done, but I, I'm wondering what you would think of If this could be enhanced or replicated in terms of, like. on a… on a per, you know, what's the AF acre flow? Acre feet. Acre feet. Per acre feet volume of water, what is the, Kind of the most cost-effective, you know, kind of approach, like, you know, procuring water rights, you know, versus, water efficiency, versus, you know, recycling of water, like, all the different solutions. And then, not only the cost, but then the potential volume of how much could be procured. That would just be really interesting, kind of statement. That's something we'll get into with this future water plan that we do.

[66:12] looking at, you know, what are… what are our options? And it might not even come down to what's the most cost-effective. A lot of it's opportunistic. Like, if we're trying to develop, maybe it's, like, increasing storage from an existing reservoir versus buying some new water rights, or… if… if something comes along, it's those… these opportunities are kind of rare, you just want… you may want to take it, even if it's not number one on your list. Yeah, right, right. But I think that's… that is the way… I think we're going to be looking at it. As you've described, some way where we can help Set up a priority system, or just some criteria for how we might evaluate which options to pursue. You know, one thing I've seen in other analyses is

[67:00] they call it, like, a MAC chart, like, marginal Abatement Cost Curve, and basically it's, like, the y-axis is, like, the cost of reduction or savings per unit, like, 800 foot, and then… and then the width of the bar is how much volume. can… applies to that. And I found that to be, like, really a really interesting data visualization. of, comparing different solutions. So, the, Project Drawdown has used this before. When they look at all the different solutions for reducing carbon. They say, okay, what's the cost? And then the width is… The magnitude. Yeah, yeah. And what type of chart you said it was? It's called a MAC, M-A-C-C, Marginal Abatement Cost Curve. Basically, it's a bar chart, Where the cost or the savings is the y-axis, and then the width of the bar on the x-axis is how much volume it can apply, and I've just found that really, like, insightful and powerful when looking at trade-offs and register.

[68:03] Thanks. One other question I have, because I'm working on this for my work right now, have we done any assessment? It relates to water, I promise. Have done any assessment on PFAS in our water streams? And how that's gonna affect water, and any policy considerations. We sample, at various locations in our water supply. And I don't believe we have had any detects in the past. Oh, it's a law in Minnesota right now, and so I was just curious if other states, we're looking at that. Yeah, there, I can't speak too intelligently about that, but I know that the state many entities' water users in the state is… are looking and sampling for PFAS. We did actually have… it wasn't in our municipal supply, but one of the things that we've been tracking, obviously, is the water supply and challenges at San Lazaro, which is just outside the city, and so that is one area that, the state has done some sampling and seen some

[69:15] See, some higher than, that was the one that got to my desk. Not my company, but I had to go deal with it, and we had to adapt some policies. I work for a manufacturing company right inside the limits, but when things like that happen, there's a Minnesota law happening, and then that got us. Oh, yeah. I'm curious to know if you've… Have a pulse on if there's discussion at the state legislature or any other on, recommended, changes or modifications to the priority-based system. Is that something that's… Even. on the radar, or is it so, like, locked in that it's… It's, from time to time.

[70:03] somebody may bring up, may question it, but, there really hasn't been any momentum. I think so many… Water users have kind of planned around the priority-based system, that to change that would really upend You know, everything that they've sort of… developed, and so I think it would certainly be an uphill. Battle to change a priority-based system. That said, I mean, there's… there are modifications, like, within the priority-based system that allow for, say, more flexibility, or we talked about, like, the water sharing arrangements between municipalities and, agricultural entities. So there… there are new policies and programs that are introduced that kind of work within the priority-based system, but allow for a little bit more to be done. Something drastic would have to happen for some…

[71:06] conversations, too. directions. Yep. You might like the book Where the Water Goes by David Owen. I've been really into this stuff. Yeah? Have you guys read it? That's pretty good. And he, like, he literally follows the Colorado River, but then as he's following it, he talks about when the water goes. Oh yeah, right, of course. It's… It's David. It's funny. Anyway, you seem like you'd be… Yeah. David Owen. Okay, yeah, thank you. water… it gets into water rights. Alan Fletcher version. Very early version of that. Thanks for your time, thanks for your interest. Thank you. Yeah, thank you so much. I'm happy to share this with you, and if… Now you can… Thank you.

[72:00] As we, I mean, certainly happy to come back. In the future with anything else we're working on. Thank you, son. Thank you. The annual letter to Council is next. Do you want to tee this up, or do you want me to? Sure, I could… I could do this really quickly. I promise. So, for board members that haven't gone through this, There has been a practice over the years where City Council reaches out to boards and commissions, asking for your guidance, your thoughts, your reflections, and your interest in the things that they should prioritize in their own work plan. It was just a few years ago that Council went to an every-other-year or two-year work plan, and so that changed the cadence of the input. So the last time that boards provided letters or feedback was for their last retreat, which was in 2024, and so we skipped a year, so last year there was no request.

[73:06] And now we're back, and the request from the clerk's office, is to essentially welcome boards and commissions to provide any thoughts that you have for Council for the retreat, which will happen in mid-ish January. So there's a template that's been created, which is kind of nice. Before, it was a little bit of a free-for-all, the structure was all over the place. Some boards had a bullet list, one page, some had, like, nice home of all the things. And so, the tee-up here is, I don't believe that, well, what I would suggest to the board, and certainly it's your purview, however you want to handle this, is to carve out time at your December meeting, to really think about the key priorities that you want to advance. You'll have time also to finalize it, if you need to revise it, but the deadline to have them submitted is December 19th to the clerk's office. So…

[74:04] Functionally, what that means is, together, think about what the priorities that you think Council as the policymaker should be prioritizing in their next work plan. And then, there's a number of ways that the board can think about drafting that up. In the past, there have been some volunteers from the board to take a pass at actually saying, here's what we talked about. And then sit down, put pen to paper, and then bring it back, and then as a group, do a little group editing together. in years past, there was more of a directive to staff to say, here are the concepts that we want you to capture, you go draft it and bring it back to us. Certainly, we'll… You sounded way too excited about that. Well, it was a red flag. Why not? I don't know which way? Sorry.

[75:11] So, whatever, the board wants to do with that is fine, but that's the tee-up, and if you want to take it from here and talk about process and how you all want to move it forward, that's totally fine. And it does say that they should be expected to be complete in 12 months or less. I don't know if that's new, that's what this… what we suggest? Is that what it's just saying? Is this the template? That is the template. I'd like to verify that, because I do have a two-year work plan. Yeah. Where's the… I think only a half. Do we get, like, then do we get, like… feedback on, like, if our request made it into the word plan, like, how does it go, like, what happens with the letter afterwards? Last time I heard, you know, it was on the word last time, like, what happened to your request? Did they happen? No, no, no, it did not. Well, one of them… the resilience?

[76:07] Yeah, so it can… it's a really good question. What happens is then Council gets letters from all of their boards and commissions. All can be very useful. Yeah, and then they take that in to their retreat in January, and then what'll happen is, They start going through a process by which they identify their top priorities as individuals, as council members. And the way they did this before is that they kind of pitched their ideas. I was there, they had, like, whiteboards, and they came up with a… and then they did some voting on which do we think we can manage in two years. Oh, well, we have, like, five of us really think this is a priority, and that's how they came up with 10. And then they added one lucky number 11, which was the update to the Climate Action Plan, which is okay, because it was already in our work plan. That's right. So, they will take your thoughts, your guidance, your feedback into account, and you'll know if it made it, because obviously that becomes Council's work plan that is very public. They orient a lot of their discussions, and a lot of the staff work, and the things that we have to orient our work plans around to achieve those.

[77:18] But either way, if they read it, like, maybe it's not one of their 10 priorities, but it could be something they're more, like, susceptible to, and it's like, slowly working out. And honestly, it could be continue a thing, evolve a thing, you all could come up with one thing, five things. My recommendation is not make it a long list, obviously, but it's certainly your decision. I understand whether it's better to focus on one or two, and be really clear, versus, like, do a long list, but it's seeming like this detailed focus. I think so. …is better. I think one, maybe two, whatever, other people. And you said December meeting, I'm like, oh, that seems late, but now it's November already. So we only have the December. Okay. Fair point. And I… I cannot… did we send out, last… the last letter? Yes. Okay, so, okay, good, so you gave us that packet.

[78:10] So you can kind of get a sense. But that one was fair, I think that was more than 2 pages. That's 2 pages, it is sometimes. I guess I should just open up the packet and… I do, yes. Give me one guess what was my idea. Yeah, I think we know. Yes, yes. This might… this might be its time. Would you like to try again for your idea? I would like to… I mean, I don't… Shit. I said, I don't think they're hiring for you, so hiring somebody is maybe not the best one to put in there, but well, given what's happening nationally, I think it could be an interesting topic. Yeah, no, I… and Brett even said that they're having a lot of conversations about it.

[79:01] So, I think it seems like a good idea. I would… it'd be fine with that one. You could tie a few other things if you would. And are we allowed, the four of us, to just email the four of us? No, no. We can work in a Google Doc. Technically not all at the same time, but… Like, that happened. Yeah, I understand the challenge that it presents, but it definitely is a violation of open meeting laws, sunshine laws, so to be able to have conversation and make… even though you're… well, you are kind of technically making a decision about your priorities, it's something that the… it's a… it's an important and very strict guideline that… that Council enacts with their boards. So if we were to meet all four of us, then we have to have a public announcement… Correct, yeah. …and have the meeting accessible. That's why they're saying we use the next meeting to do it. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we have some time now, too, to, like, get next steps. I think it was really helpful last time people came.

[80:06] pretty prepared. What was the… do you want to walk us through the process for last time? I can exactly remember it, I don't remember it. I mean, I… people, I think, did some… we, like, talked about what ideas were pretty… fairly easily. came up with these three ideas based on people's, what they brought. Who wrapped it? And then I wrote it up. You and me edited it, which I'm happy to do again. We edit it in Google Docs. I think what was helpful was people who did, like, research, because… Yeah, the department is doing a lot… climate department's doing a lot of work already, so, like, there was a lot of ideas. I feel like you were like, well, we actually do that already, you know? Like, so… not coming to the December meeting, just having, like, thought about something, but, like, made sure the city's not doing it already, and made sure, you know, kind of make sure it fits the context of what's going on is really helpful.

[81:03] Cause we do have… Lot of great work going on. So that was really helpful, and then I drafted and we edited it. Were you allowed to ask, is there something that we're… is at risk of going away that's currently happening with that… with… Maybe I misunderstood all the City Council debate about budget, but is there anything that's, like, we would want to keep that might accidentally end up on the chopping block with different budget concerns, or is it… That we should make sure. Or is there anything at risk solving? That's a fair question. No, I don't think so. The process that we started well over… gosh, it's been more than 6 months now, as we started, To catch the scent of what the budget was gonna look like, and we started to actually do the reductions. And, you know, reducing service levels in certain ways that, you know, if you go to a certain level, it doesn't make sense to keep doing the thing. And so, at least from my perspective, and I can give this a little bit more thought, at least for our department, we were really thoughtful about those kind of impacts, and it wasn't super sizable.

[82:13] Across the board, there are some things that did go away, across the city organization, whether or not you would want, as a group, to suggest those, and I'm happy to send those out in an email, things that I am aware of. I think I'd be curious, I'm not saying I'm gonna go advocate for them or not, but it's always good to know if there's something I think is… or we think is happening and it's not happening anymore. Sometimes. Okay. I think that could just be interesting. And maybe they were great at the time, and now they don't make sense to find anybody, you know. When you said prioritize Boulder's food systems program, it was more for more… it was not necessarily the… Push for, you know, Adoption of more.

[83:04] Yeah, it was not… No, it was a more broader, holistic program that looked at all different aspects of food. That was my own little side project. Because you wrote it. And I like the Google Doc, I just opened it that you did. Did you write this? this Google Doc in the letter? Well, is it just this letter that's in the… No, then you click the letter and it goes to this food… If you've done at the intersection of food and climate and border, please see this document. Oh yeah, that's probably me. This is really impressive! This is 4 pages long! Clearly, there is too much time in my hands. There's actually… there's, like, a lot of groups in different cities working on food-based stuff that I was, like, part of. I did write it, but, like, there's a lot of underground work happening around the country in this… in this area. Yeah, I mean, we can copy-paste this, which are easy, but…

[84:02] what… I'm curious how other people, like, at Prounce already. For me, nature-based solutions. Yeah. And the 5 square miles, that was very powerful, I thought. That came up last week. Where… what's such a few. to change the fauna, flora and fauna in 5 square miles? I think it's 5 square miles, not 5 mile radius, but I think it's 5 square miles. You have an impact on the… I guess the… is it climate or weather in that area, is what I've heard, so I would love to use that, like, I know this is a bad example, it's kind of like a 15-minute salise way, which is… Not, not a big thing. I mean, people… It's getting beat down by some groups right now, but… That concept, I thought it was… Amazing. It's like, if that's all it takes.

[85:01] its communities can feel like they're making a difference by working in their 5 square miles, right? And it just doesn't seem like an non-achievable, ready task, right? It's like, you're not telling them to stop driving, fly, and all those kind of… just, like, in your little 5 square miles, let's see what we can do. Yeah, I thought that was a powerful concept, if that can make it in. I think that's great. One thing to remember about, which makes this kind of a hard exercise is… so Council's only going to have 10 priorities, so we're basically saying, like. What should your 10 priorities be as a whole city? And so, maybe fitting that in within another one. Within another one. Like, how do we… do XYD to the nature-based solutions program so that it's more robust or something? But I think that might be a little too granular. I don't know. Well, it could be… Right, fitting within something else, I think it's great. Well, I was… my comment was going to be, just…

[86:06] Thinking about how to take that concept and apply that into something that Council could use. So, in other words, what Brett was presenting is really the focus of all of our biodiversity work. And so, it could be, I'm making it up, could be, utilizing or really prioritizing biodiversity and those particular outcomes as Council adopts and thinks about all of its policies that may come before the body, and so really prioritizing that in a way that it isn't right now. I mean, we are as a department. That could be the way it is written. I'm just giving you an example. Yeah, because Like, for… for me, while you typed that, right, it's like… I see the, you know, I do see sustainable equity and Resilience Framework. I see that's ingrained. in the city of Bordeaux. Like, I think…

[87:02] I don't think we need to repeat that. I agree. Right? And so, I think I'm good with keeping the food systems. I've not thought about the resiliency plan much, but… Maybe put in, like, what we think should be A focus under the nature-based. Yeah. Solutions, right? And, oh. Yeah. I also like what you said about, like, getting the community engaged. I think that could be, like, not a proposal, but a lens to think about it. community engagement. Obviously, individuals aren't gonna… aren't the… gonna be able to change the whole thing, but they do have an impact on their area, and, like, that could apply to the woodworking, or that could apply to landscaping, but having that at, like. community engagement across neighborhoods. Oftentimes when they get engagement, I feel like it's the same 10 people. Nobody, like, you know, I just saw, in my neighborhood, you know what I'm saying? Same word.

[88:07] I see the sign for, I have a heat pump in my neighborhood. There's a guy who's got a sign on Calvo. I have a sign, right? I think… I believe that, I think those kind of things, I think, do help, promote, you know, what the climate initiatives adopting those policies, I think it helps. And I would go into… but I like what I never see in the food one, but maybe we specifically target a thing. maybe just, like, target, like, a community engagement alliance to our council. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Similar to, like, our Sustainable Equity Resilience Framework. Yeah, really, like, focus on treating… No, I think what they would say is we have a whole office of, equity, belonging, and engagement. And so, what is it that you want different than what they're already doing? To do more of the thing?

[89:05] So I'm just trying to troubleshoot this and get it into language that would be, if I'm a council member, saying, I'm a policymaker, what do you want me to do? Well, I guess I'd be totally honest, I didn't even know that office existed until I joined this group, so clearly, I'm sure they're doing a good job in some places, but they're not doing a good job in other places. Would you draft this? Keeping an eye on who's gonna be on council next year? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, we'll have to revisit it once we see the final. It's definitely a bit of a shift. Based on results coming through right now. Yeah, but I mean, nobody really knows Rob that well. I don't know. It's hard to say, because a lot of the people are still on council. I guess maybe a little bit, yeah. Okay. Put in some things about economics, bring economic resiliency, it seems. I'm wondering what the biodiversity thing…

[90:04] You know, there's a lot of, like. Metrics, obviously, around emissions and, like. Is there something about, like, using biodiversity as a metric, too? I mean, I imagine we do in the natural-based solutions team, as a thing where CI that could, like… basically, like, how they… make decisions. Yes, and one of the ways that that's showing up, we just became, I think you've… the board knows, a signatory to the Berlin Pact. which is, we are one of just a handful, like, three U.S. cities to be a signatory. There's not that many globally. And the PACT lays out that framework for how do you advance biodiversity within jurisdictions. In ways that are very, quantitative and qualitative. So we, as departments, we'd say, here are the things that we already meet, here are the things that we need to do. And so that could be an anchor point to say, really advance.

[91:05] the city's commitment to biodiversity. A lot of this is already laid out in the pact, which the mayor and the city manager signed last month, so… That's a good, anchor point. Yeah, I think that's it. Are there any, like, I just saw, I guess, in the news, you had a greenhouse gas… Inventory. Yeah. Is there any other such report that you would like to work on? Like, that you're like, you know, we… Or any such, any other… initiatives in the Climate Commission. What do you want, Council? What do you like? What are the, like, you know, big, comprehensive plan we could use? You could turn this recording off right now. I, I think that there's some really interesting opportunities,

[92:02] you know, next year is going to be an important year. You're going to hear Council talk about, signaling to Excel. expectations over the next year leading up to a potential opt-out in 2026. I think there's a lot in that energy space around affordability. Around reliability and resilience, around hardening the system against wildfire risks, I think is a really big piece. Council's going to be moving in that direction, of course, but I do think it's a critical one. I think there's a lot of work That we have been thinking about as a department That is more in the public health space. And it's one of the areas that we usually defer to our counterparts in Boulder County, but so much of what we're learning now as we really dive deep into, a lot of our equity-based work, a lot of… I mean, much of the work we do is really pinned to how do we improve

[93:06] And enhance quality of health in our community, whether it's indoor air quality, whether it is specific pollution issues. talking about things like ash cleanup at Belmont, thinking about San Lazaro. So a lot of our work is now starting to trend into that public health space, and we as an organization, I don't think are really well coordinated in that way. and I… this is not a well-thought-out, kind of policy direction, but I think there's something there that could really be crafted in a really beautiful way, too. I wonder if there's almost a way to tie these things together. Like, a lot of these are, like, filling gaps. That the federal government is cutting funding for between the energy, the food, the public health things, and rollback of different policies, and so it's, like. some… I don't know if we can come up with a… like, I like how Hannah, in her recommendation, had a position. I know there's a hiring freeze, but some type of, like, initiative where we tied into, like, all these outcomes, like.

[94:10] food policy affects who gets food and who doesn't get food, like, there's an equity aspect of it, and I know there's this equity office, and there's a Polar Public County Health, but I wonder if there's a way to tie that in, and energy, like, who loses power first, you know, when they can't pay their Excel bill, or, like, who… like, who's at risk when energy sources fail, or who's most affected by wildfire. You know, obviously there's some combination, there's, like, some type of like, community equity lens focus to pitch as, like, a common… focusing on one bigger theme, and these are, like, different aspects of it between, like, community resilience, almost, and the biodiversity, the food. The energy, like, thinking about someone's day-to-day life. As, like, a one solution with all these different aspects, and then they could either hatch onto the big solution, or they could pick a little one within there that, like, piques someone's interest. And look at each, you know, but one bigger theme that everything else ties up to.

[95:07] There we go. Jonathan, I guess anyway. Question is the purpose of this? Kind of a letter or memo. To the council, is it… Supposed to be above and beyond The comments, the observations, the recommendations that we've made, Throughout our meetings. At kind of a higher level of, you know, from… The information and the interaction that we've had. We feel like these are the priorities we think are the most important. Or, within our discussions, we feel like you can give guidance on, really. making momentum within these areas. I'm just trying to get a sense of… how do we… because I feel like I've, you know, given my thoughts or my feedback and whatnot, and so to the Council, how is this kind of different from what we've…

[96:05] viewing within the department. discussions. Yeah, no, it's a super fair question. The difference there is that the feedback that the board gives traditionally are specific to a thing. It's a policy, it's a thing that Council is evaluating, and you're giving your input on that thing that Council should… they should be able to take that focus or that lens and put it on and say, okay, my environmental board said this, so I want to look at it through that lens, and I believe those are compelling reasons to change, or modify, or deny, or support, or whatever. The difference with this is that this is going to be the Council's work plan. They are creating their own work plan for two years. Okay. And so, what they are trying to do is solicit feedback from their advisors to say, what should we, as a body of nine, focus on over the next

[97:03] 2 years, even though the thing says 1 year, it's… Let's say 12 months? It says 12 months. Well, we'll clarify that. But the point is, is that they then hold themselves accountable to achieving the thing. And so it can live at a little bit higher level than a specific program, a specific policy. If that's how detailed you all want to go, that's certainly within your purview to do so. Say, we want to pass this particular thing. We want you to put that on your work plan because we believe it's so important. So this is more of our recommendation on what to prioritize. with… from… from our purview, within the board's kind of focus for the next two years, what's important? And that could be for existing topics, or it could be something that maybe hasn't been addressed yet. So when Council then adopts their priorities, like I said, they have 10.

[98:01] essentially, then, staff's work program really flows from that. We say… they say, we are going to dedicate our time and resources. They may have subcommittees to do the thing of council members, they'll have regular check-ins to see how those things are advancing. They'll rely on staff teams from multiple departments to help support getting that thing done. So that's why they go through the same process of saying, okay, we could do you know, 137 things, what are the 10 things that we want to really get done? And how do we know these are the important things? We're going to ask our advisors what they believe we should be working on. So it would be advisable, then, to maybe just potentially have 3 topic areas, they may choose one. They might not choose any of them as part of their top 10, or our three recommendations may be sub-bullet points of 10, if there's some type of integration. And that's why I think Hannah's point was a really good one, is that not hitting a level which is kind of a programmatic thing, because the council will say, well, go talk to the departments about getting that done. We're the policy makers, so hit the right tone and level, for us. Okay. Yeah, so this is high level. We think that, you know.

[99:18] perspective from the American Advisory Board. These are our, kind of, our priorities, and this is why. We think this is the value of that. And then that will go into there, and they'll see, okay, you know. How do they want to… If they want to pull any of that into their… Okay. Holdercounty.gov slash city councilpriorities has the pertin priorities on there. Oh. And their descriptions, and then all this, like, how they're doing. These big voter priorities? I just googled Boulder City Council first. Okay, perfect. But it could… it's probably helpful to look at, like, what level the priorities are… Because, like, what's relevant to what you're talking about is a climate… climate action plan update. Update the city's existing action plan with the focus of updating targets related to resilience and equity.

[100:07] And they… looks like they've picked, like, one from each Sort of. department. There was a lot of planning, related focuses for them in this, in this version. They also have, wildfire hardening and water-wise landscaping policies, which is related to… Yeah. And yeah, so… Oh, and they have a little progress tracker? I know. I've never seen this picture. But nice to see. A lot of stuff in that website, I know, it's hard. Unless you're looking for it, it's hard to… It's a little buggy. But it's helpful. Yeah, I think I should spend some… I'm looking at this, it's a… I never knew this existed. So, Hannah, are you thinking that we kind of each bring, you know, a couple of priorities to our December meeting? Yeah. Talk about it, maybe align all that, and then… and then have, like, a shared doc, and then have it kind of as a…

[101:09] crowdsourcing type of thing. Exactly. Okay. It was helpful to have one person write a draft, so then people could work off of it, but… or we could all just get it, like, if people are looking to write sessions. But yeah, I think giving people a chance to, like, think about it, do a little research. Also. you know, if you don't have… you can just come and join the discussion, but if you're gonna, like, bring an idea to it, then I think it's better to research it ahead of time, because, again. Like, half the time, it's like, oh, we already do that. Does that seem good to you guys as a… Do you want to start the Google Doc before next… the next meeting, to sort of… Oh, the ideas? Yeah. Yeah? Like, research notes in there. Yeah, then we can… And that way, if you see someone has the same idea as you, you know. Then we can delete stuff that we have. It's just what I was saying. Yeah. And I think you don't have to do, like, a ton of research, it's more just, like.

[102:15] the city doing this? Is this possible? Yeah, and if there is another city that does this, maybe, or has this as a priority, what are they doing? And if you have questions as you're brainstorming, just reach out. If I share it with the… EAB email, do you think everyone will get access? I should probably just do individual emails, right? In terms of a Google Doc? Go? Or it would go? I think it would… it should. Okay, great. But if it doesn't, let me know, and I can forward it to everyone. The general, like, listserv, then your email goes to it. Okay, it's not, like, an EA, like, the listserv… It's a list… EME listserv. Okay, gotcha, alright. Okay, so you should all… That's true.

[103:02] My last question. Is… are there any new projects in the works? like, things your work was done for you, Jonathan. A lot. Yeah, totally. Or something that we don't need to go research, because it's already gonna happen. Yeah, I think that they… but again, I would say rather than projects, I would say more policies. I think that there are a number of things that we've already teed up, and so it's okay to say on the record, because we've already identified them as really critical for the upcoming year. really, I'll just give you some examples of those. The… the building's roadmap, we're ready to start looking at… parsing that. And saying, what are the parts and pieces that we need to be bringing back to Council? So, an update to the smart regs, so efficiency requirements for rental housing, what's next in that? Looking at updates to the Energy Smart program, updates to the deconstruction policy and ordinance.

[104:01] So we have a number of those things that are kind of scheduled, and what's nice is that they sync up really nicely with The work that we've been doing on the comp plan to say what are the critical issues, kind of getting back to your point about energy burden. What are the big… what are the big tensions, challenges that we have right now, and do our policies match up with that? And the answer is not in all instances. And so I think there's a really important piece there. The other big policy piece is linked to what I said earlier about public health and really thinking about chemical use. This has been a big one for our department and across the organization. There's been a full court press From industry across the state to, push back on any type of, relaxation of preemption, which has been something we've been trying to get removed for a while. We're worried about how there's been a lot of Resurgence in chemical use, mostly from the perspective of cities saying, we have this acute wildfire danger, we have fine fuels.

[105:07] don't want to put chemicals down, but we don't want fires, and so they're broadcasting really dangerous chemicals. And a lot of them were seeing implications with PFAS and other, you know, really really nasty stuff. And so, for us, really trying to align policy, we have an IPM policy, we have an IPM ordinance, looking at that, and thinking about integrated pest management. And we've been pioneering this work, not just regionally, but nationally, in terms of how we do our mosquito treatment. And so, some of that is starting to feel like it's under attack from industry, so we want to go back and make sure that we as an organization are, Really doing what we need to do in that space. As we're realizing the connection to climate and all of the other things, biodiversity, etc.

[106:02] Another thing to consider, possibly, is with, planning 26… 2027 is, festival for Sundance. Oh! Maybe… implementing certain… I don't know. certain aspects of it, like trying to set an example, you know, like sustainability. Yeah, we do have a committee with Sundance that is looking at how to make it Not just, like, oh, let's recycle cups, but how do we create a festival that is the model for how you do sustainable festivals? I don't think you would have found that anywhere. I don't think so. It's funny. Crossing it off. I mean, no, no, my pen is not writing.

[107:03] I'm not here to say, no, man, not in a lot. At the end of our letter, though, like, as a way to continue being a model of our City Week, our city, to continue acting in good faith. Every time I go to, like, events and I see, like, just… Trash everywhere. Oh my god. Come on, guys. Stresses me out. We can do better. That's why I think the community thing… Yeah, exactly. The trash on game days stresses me out so much. Oh my god, the trash at, Boulder Boulder. Oh. Trash at my house. Trash at my house. I blame babies. Code enforcement on you. Cats me. Okay, I put all these notes in the shared doc. Okay, cool. And the link to the… Thank you for putting that together. It sounds like we're already coalescing on a few things.

[108:10] Around public health. Does anyone have any other questions about it, or… Seeds to plant. Before. Great. I do remember last year, we did some sort of whiteboarding. Also, I don't remember why. I think we all showed up at the December meeting without a lot of ideas, so I think maybe that's what… And we hopped up and, yes, wrote all of the ideas, and I think we even might have done some .mocracy. Yeah. Don't worry, I'll be ready. I need to… you know, if I need to bring voting dots. Oh, no, no, no, no dots, no. Too much wage. I don't think we did dots, I think we did, like, check marks. No more single-use anything. I'll bring the dinosaur stickers for right now, so… There you go. The stickers, how cute, you know? That she bought on Amazon.

[109:16] Look at this. It's true. Great, okay. All right, hope I can remember to do this. We have faith in you. What? We have faith in you. I am gonna write a generous. December 3rd? Are we… we're sticking… To December 3rd? Yeah, there's no help, right? I don't think so. Okay, bye. Oh, motion to… Oh, sorry. She's so excited! You're the boss, so if you're gonna say… Motion to cut.

[110:06] Motion to let Jonathan speak. I've spoken enough, to be clear. Just a couple of things just to note on the calendar and highlight. One, you already touched on, tomorrow night, we'll be presenting, the draft updated Climate Action Plan to Council. We probably won't go on until, I don't know, 8.30 or so. Packet is out, was out last week. I'm excited to have a conversation with Council again. This is not a total rewrite, it's a refresh, but there are definitely some elements that we have updated within the plan, besides just making it, way more user-friendly, the graphics are going to be really nice, a little excited about that. The packet, though, is just content. It's not the actual visuals and graphics, but we wanted to… we wanted Council to really focus in on the content. The big one, obviously, is adding compact land use as a guiding principle.

[111:08] It's something that is new in the context of the climate plan, so excited about that one. We have about an hour of presentation with Council tomorrow night, and then, as I mentioned, just after, we'll have a conversation with Council about, drafting a letter to Excel memorializing a lot of the things that Council said they said to directly to Excel, at a study session earlier this year. Expectations, over the next year or so. So that's a big one. The other one, just to flag for you all, is, at the last public hearing that Council had on the landscaping, water conservation, and wildfire resilience. They, continued that. to December 18th, and so they will not finalize that until that time. There's still a lot of conversation needing to be had, there are still a lot of questions, so, they continue that. There will not be more public comment at that study session, but that's when they'll make a lighting decision on the elements. So I just wanted you to be tracking those two things.

[112:12] And then the only other thing I had, if, you'll give me just a quick second, I don't… I have not been able to find it, but a council member reached out and had either read the minutes from your meeting or had listened to a verbal recording, I'm not quite sure. And was concerned that at some point in those minutes, there was a comment, and I don't know who made it, we've not been able to find it, but something about how gray water, a statement saying gray water is not allowed in the state of Colorado. And so that is not an accurate statement at all, and so I wanted to clear the record if that was something that either staff or one of our presenters said. I want to make sure that that is,

[113:03] changed in the record, and if that was something that you heard, I want to make sure you were aware of that. So… As in gray water, as in water that's repurposed for use, again, in the same location that it's repurposed? So, like, so, you know, from your bathroom. And you can… you can repurpose and use it, or the… That's correct. Yeah, that's correct. Yeah, so there was… and part of this is that there was a… I can't remember, H-bill… House Bill 1232 or something like that last year, it was a 2024 legislative session, essentially said that gray water systems are allowed in new construction beginning in 2026, but then it allows local jurisdictions to create their own ordinance to either allow or not allow. In fact, the city, and it did go to the Water Resource Advisory Board, Council is adopting an ordinance tomorrow night that actually prohibits gray water systems in new construction, and that is based on… it's a little surprising given our conversation here.

[114:10] But, the utilities folks have been doing a lot of research. We had a pilot project at Willville over the past 8 to 10 years, and what they have found from that is that the technology hasn't advanced to a way that you're actually seeing a lot of savings in those big applications. They're very difficult, they have to be repaired. In fact, it creates some cross-contamination potential, and so it doesn't mean that we can't… you can't do it at your own home. But it doesn't create an opportunity to just do it full-fledged for new construction. So, they're going to revisit that. We'll talk about it tomorrow night at their council meeting, but I just wanted to clear the record that if there was a statement that was made that they aren't allowed across the board, that's inaccurate. And I think… oh, and then the last thing, since, you mentioned it, a lot of stuff coming out of our office this week in terms of news, and so, again, one being our greenhouse gas inventory that we do annually. Really impressive results this year.

[115:18] Continuing on, pretty impressive trajectory, so where we, reduced emissions another 8% over 2023, it's our 2024 inventory. And so, if you look at… since we started measuring, we're at about a 50% reduction, which is pretty extraordinary. I know that's from… it's like, over two decades, but… These are durable emission reductions, meaning we're not seeing rebounds, and we see continued decrease. The report is out, it's on our website. We had a press release go out yesterday. If you want to dig in and see where the biggest sources of emission reductions are coming from, I think it's a really good read, and it's kind of fascinating. So, there's that, and then we just released an information packet today on our continued work at the Public Utilities Commission and all of the cases and proceedings

[116:10] that we're involved in and what we are trying to push in those proceedings. So that's public today, too. to this quote via your newsletter? Good, a couple things. So, inventory went out, in the newsletter. Just came out this evening. You got their newsletter? The City of Border Department newsletter. Our departmental newsletter? That talks about the Berlin Pact first, and then it talks about our inventory. Do you have that one? I've signed up for this newsletter for, like, 3 years, I've never got one. I don't know… Yeah, I thought I signed up too, but I definitely did not get anything. But I don't have the climate in my sharing department. Oh, you don't? Newsletter. I don't. So, I just got one. We're chatting about it earlier, it goes out tomorrow.

[117:02] Okay, okay, so you will, you will get that, and maybe we'll just sign you up without you knowing. And then there's apparently a climate initiatives one, too. We do our own departmental newsletter, and so this is… We put it out monthly, and… It's the Climate Initiatives. Correct. Okay. It's available, I don't know. Maybe I just… maybe I just don't know. I get the, yeah, it's different. Okay. I'll keep an eye out for it. No, it's okay. read about it. Oh, but the emissions inventory web, it was a press release that also went out yesterday, but… I mean, there's a lot of stuff coming out. Yeah. The PUC, if it's posted online, would you all like me to send that one to you over email? Which one? The Public Utilities Commission information packet about all of the proceedings Sure. Steph has been involved again? Are we able to get a copy of the presentation? I'm sure we can. Yes, I have it.

[118:06] That's one… Okay, now I can… I motioned to… Include. Yes. Second. Great. We did it. Thanks for letting me talk so much, that's alright. Thank you for touching those.