June 4, 2025 — Environmental Advisory Board Regular Meeting

Transcript

Captions from City of Boulder YouTube recording.

[0:05] There we go. That makes me feel better. And then, Jonathan, to share your slides. If once you join the meeting, I'll promote you to a panelist. Got it. You're not outside of me. I do have to know recording in progress. Alrighty. Okay.

[9:51] I'm just gonna look at some of the others like our water utility, master plan or grasslands, master plan, emergency operations. So we have to stitch all of those things together to ensure that what was being created wasn't being done in isolation. It was both reflected and inform all of the other plans. Moving forward, as we understand that the risk Wildfire plays in the community

[10:13] do not even attempt to read this. But what I wanted to share with with you here. What you're looking at is 3 columns that correspond to those 3 bubbles. In that 1st diagram left is fire adapted communities, resilient landscapes in the middle and safe, effective wildfire response. And so through a combination of staff work and some outreach to community. The teams really identified those strategies that were most critical in addressing the need that we have today in those 3 buckets. So what are the things that we ought to get started on right away because they match up with the overall objectives that we have around wildfire resilience. And so you can see there's a lot here around home assessments building on existing programs thinking about what we're doing that was already in motion, aligning with some of our regulation and code, and then a lot of thinking about how our incident management team, our emergency response teams. What have they learned with respect to Wildfire? And so, again, thinking about how these 3 I guess

[11:18] buckets really complement and work congruently to to address kind of our overall needs again. So that long list was winnowed down to a handful that we are prioritizing for 2025. So obviously we can't do all the things that were on that previous page, and that was a winnowed down list from the main list, which was, I think, something like 300 different activities. So this is really the work program that the departments are focused on for 2025. And what I want to talk about is how we're doing some of this work, because it's easy to say, well, great building codes. Well, what does that actually mean? So one of the 1st items that did, in fact, make its way to council a couple of weeks ago is the building code, and specifically how it relates to the wild and urban interface.

[12:10] and what modifications the building code, or what role the building code should actually play in supporting the overall objectives specifically around non combustible zones, how we think about what new development should require and what should be recommended in the building space. So you may have heard a lot about Council's conversation over the past month and a half with respect to the with respect to the building code. and there was a lot of I wouldn't call it confusion. But this is a complex topic. So a lot of council and community was very interested in understanding the landscaping elements of wildfire protection from both the wildfire and the waterwise components of our landscaping code. Those are not yet before council. Those are coming later on this summer. And that's

[13:01] specifically what Brett is going to talk about one element of that program. So again, we're zooming in on essentially the code and regulation portion that we control next month, you're going to hear more about the programs from the team. What does it mean in terms of our homeowner grants? What are we doing there? How we've been successful? What's offered thinking about our recovery program. Debris, removal, biomass, utilization. You'll hear more about all of these. We're not going to touch on those tonight, but I wanted you to understand where the piece around landscaping specifically fits and how it really kind of supports this overall Action Plan program. That is all I have for that. So let me stop my share. And in your packets, probably gonna refer you there because you have a document. You did not get this electronically on purpose. And that's because this is a a work that is in progress. Right now there is a team that Brett is

[14:02] helping manage and oftentimes it's we try not to provide documents that are really, really drafty draft out electronically. So we just wanted to kind of walk you through it tonight. Brett's gonna talk you through the the origin, what it is we're trying to prioritize in this space specifically to the landscaping. And then the last thing I'll say before allowing Brett to introduce himself. This will come back to you, probably multiple times the larger kind of zoom out at your next meeting, and then, once we have a stronger package that is really a set of recommendations that are going to travel with the update to the landscape code. We'll talk about how to get those back in front of the board tonight, or or before it goes to council. I think in July or August. I don't think that date has been totally selected. Is that all tracking? Does that make sense? Please tell me if it doesn't, and I'll try to trying to explain it better. Okay, great. Thank you. Brent. If you wanna introduce yourself, and then we can just go from there.

[15:05] Good evening, members of the Environmental Advisory Board for the record. My name is Brett Kincara. I'm the senior division manager for the nature based Solutions team, which is a part of the Climate Initiatives Department. It's delightful to be here. I used to be here every month for almost 10 years. And then Jonathan generously took back this role, as I was managing small children at home also. But tonight I'm excited to share with you, as Jonathan said, a working draft of an effort that we've been going through internally to align different departments, all of whom have a role and a perspective in how urban landscapes should be managed. But in this effort to synthesize that around a set of guidelines that we will be presenting to the community for how to manage for fire resilient urban landscapes.

[16:03] So I want to start by underscoring something that's called out in this 1st box on the 1st page, and that is that these guidelines are based on the best available. Both science and experience that we have. but I would acknowledge that this field of how to manage for fire resilience in urban landscapes is relatively new, because we are facing fire. Wildfire challenges within urban settings that we are. Really, we have not had that experience before in the past. so there will be more learned, and more of that learning will be incorporated in this over time. So this, even when it's done, will be a living document. So as part of those learnings. I would invite you to go to page 5, and one of the

[17:05] one of the really significant experiences that is driving a new way of thinking and approaching fire. Resilience in urban landscapes is this this statement that's highlighted in on page 5 around? What causes the majority of home fires in these kinds of conflagrations. And it's not structure to structure fire transfer. It's this ember cast. This is a really significant dynamic. And it's a it's a it's an issue that there for significantly shapes what you're about to see in the rest of the document, because it's had. It's caused us to have to rethink what we call the Wildland urban interface originally and traditionally, that was just usually the 1st few properties in from that boundary with your wild, with your, with your wild forest.

[18:09] But with this this phenomena of high wind events going with fire, as we all know, from the Marshall fire, we have this new dynamic. So it's in that context that you're gonna see 2 important developments in our guidance. One has to do with how we think of the the path, the the dynamics of the home of the parcel level. And then how do we think about this at a community level? So let's start with the community level. And this is what we're now calling the 3 broad areas of the clinic. So if you look at page 7 and page 8, so, as I said in the past, essentially our wooey zone, if you look at page 8, would have been that area in foreign.

[19:04] But with this recognition of this member cast dynamic. Then we started. There's modeling that's been done to actually look at. How far do embers start to throw when you have high winds and these kind of ignition spots in the in the western edge of the community. And so basically, we've now ended up with a second sort of area, a second bluey area that is essentially too broadly. And then there is a 3rd set of areas that are really sort of corresponding to you might say, more natural lands or areas that have a higher incidence of combustible fuels. And those are the ones that you see on the east side of the community. A lot of those came from States mapping of wildfire zones. But the important thing to to

[20:00] to to see here is this is now what is proposed as the new areas. So there was a period of time, by the way, during the discussions of the Marshall fire, where some people thought, well, maybe the entire city should be in the Zone. we've sort of backed away from that a little bit, but you can see this is a much more extensive area. So now, what does that mean? Well, in the codes, the codes are basically going to guide any new development or redevelopment. The Wui codes. The Wildland urban interface codes will guide any new development or redevelopment in these designated 3 areas. And so in that context, we'll see a little later in the document. The properties in those areas that are going through redevelopment or new developments will face certain requirements. Yes, please. Based on the Louis. How often do you plan to update what's considered the louis and what's considered the? That's a good question. I haven't heard discussions internally, have you, John? Yeah, there's been some dialogue, of course, with council. That was the big piece of the council discussion a couple of actually, 2 weeks ago.

[21:16] I'm sorry. Oh, got it. Yeah. So I think they talked quite a bit about the frequency of remodeling, and it wasn't landed on. But there's discussion that will probably come up tomorrow. So I? I'm sorry. Question. Yeah, just out of curiosity. What is just curious to know the explanation or rationale behind? How Broadway it seems to be kind of the the demarcation line for for the the, is it because there's certain like vegetation that's more flammable. Or it's actually based on modeling of how far embers are thrown by certain wind speeds. So there's modeling that has been done by a professor. I can't remember.

[22:12] No, it's what his full name is but our fire department, and many others have been tracking and actually helping to fund this analysis that combines these fire models plus wind models to get the Embercast. And so. you know, we rather than have some sort of jagged line created by a model. We, we got the basic distance, and then we use Broadway as that. So so I, there's 1. There's 1 theme that I wanna really emphasize for you tonight, because it's very important as a intermediary to the community to really hear that the Ui zones. the the Re, the the Wui code requirements apply as requirements only to properties that are in the Wui zone.

[23:07] So there's been some fear or discussion, as we'll see as we get into the content of this, that this applies now to every house in boulder, and it does not. in fact, even in the Wui zone. These guidelines, or these requirements, only apply to new development or redevelopment. Now that being said. especially from our fire department's perspective. There's a it's a strong recommendation to those with houses that just just existing houses that they consider implementing these guidelines because they are known to be strong deterrence to Wildfire. Okay, can I say one thing really quickly, just to put some context to that? The original Louis boundary was 4,600 homes. And so when we've expanded it affects 16,000 homes. So just give you the context of the number. Thank you.

[24:00] I have a question since we've been giving it. Been given this in print. Are we restricted from sharing this? We're we're literally finishing this up in the next few weeks. I just asked, because we've been like actively discussing this with our neighbors and doing some mitigation strategies. And so this has been a topic of conversation the last 2 weeks. so I will not pass this on to them, but I will refer to them. Here's what I would suggest to that question, and and thanks for asking that I I appreciate it. I think what I would. What I would propose is, I'm gonna keep track of questions that are more broadly focused on the building codes the the broader context, and make sure that if we can't answer them, then they'll be answered. At your meeting next month. We will have a packet. That is a higher level. That includes the information about the and that will all be public for sure, in terms of this map this is all public. That map is public. The rest of the document is really the piece about the veg management, and some of the other pieces are not yet, so what I what I will do is, I will send you the packet that Council.

[25:12] used as reference for the building code update, which is really where the conversation was. And that is absolutely shareable. And there's more context there. Okay, thank you. I'm glad you said that, too, because I think it's important to remember that there are 2 major domains that the code is intended to try to guide or direct. One is the built environment, and the other is the landscape. And so there's a whole set of requirements on the built side as well, but tonight we're only talking about the landscapes. Okay. So there, as I said, there's these 2 these 2 scales of area that we're now talking about. We've been talking about the sort of city scale within which there are these 3 will we carry this?

[26:01] They were being called zones, but because now we're going to talk about a parcel level which we also has a language around zones. This is where we're going to now talk about the home ignition zones, and this is where some of the misunderstanding or or lack of clear communication has caused some community members to say, Wait a minute. Are you going to come around now and tell everybody that they can't grow anything in the 1st 5 feet outside of their house. No, that's the the short answer. But for those who are developing or redeveloping in the, they will not be allowed to put vegetative materials within the 1st 5. So let's go into the zones. So there are 3 zones in the home ignition zone piece 0 to 5 feet. That's the part that's right. Next to your house. 5 to 30 feet, and then the area that's 30 to 100. Now, these zones actually were originally developed for wildland residents. That's why there could be a hundred feet zone like in the urban context. Rarely would you have somebody who even has their property line within the 30 outside of the 30 foot zone. But anyway, so there. So you can see on page 10. Now, the sort of a diagram of what we're talking about of the 3 zone.

[27:16] So it's because the science, and the practice is showing that when you have ember cast, if that ember cast falls on something flammable in that 1st 5 feet, that's where you're getting most of these ignition starts. And that's 1 of the reasons why our fire department is very adamant about that, especially for these wooey areas. So now you have a sense of these 2 scales, the sort of areas and the submission zones. Now, what are the requirements and what are the recommendation? So in for let's just say, for new development or redevelopment in the Wui area. Requirements are no vegetation in the 1st 5 feet.

[28:03] and in this in the second zone from 5 to 30 feet. That plants come from an approved plant list. Now, plant in this case includes trees and plants. So that's a list that's actually appended here in this we were working. Yeah, let me start. There's a there's a comprehensive plant list for plants that are to be approved again under development or redevelopment in that 5 to 30 foot area. There's also a requirement for no new. Alright. Excuse me. So just to kind of give you a little bit of the flavor of these discussions that have been going on for a while. There was a lot of conversation of should there be any trees allowed in that 5 to 30 feet. Well, as it turns out, what's really interesting that we've learned from the California fires that took place recently is that trees actually in many cases were served as barriers to ember Cast.

[29:05] So trees actually turned out to be very beneficial to protecting many structures. And, in fact, in the California example. What's now pretty clear is that in almost all cases where trees burned. it was because they were ignited by buildings, not the other way around. So this is, this has been important sort of insight, and it's informed the conversations with the fire department that for even the the new development and redevelopment properties in the zone trees are allowed as long as they're not trying for trees. So these I'm mentioning all this because the 2 issues we've been hearing a lot from community members in terms of concern are, oh, my God! Does this mean that now we can't put anything within the 1st 5 feet. No, if you're not in a development redevelopment. And 2, does this mean we have to remove all of our trees? No. so those are important messages for you to know now.

[30:01] in terms of development and redevelopment, there are requirements that trees not be within 10 feet of that structure like the canopy, because, again, even though they theoretically won't ignite, they don't want things that close a clarification question when you say redevelopment. Are you talking about redevelopment of building of the landscape specifically, what does that constitute now? There are some instances where, if it was, if there's a really big deck and somebody's putting in for a permit to do a really big deck. It will probably trigger again, obviously comply with the question. And maybe you're going to get to this. But what do you think this is going to do in terms of relationship with insurance companies? It should. In fact, we've already heard that it's improving, because this is just an anecdote. Obviously this doesn't happen to everyone. But in the city of Austin, insurance companies were flying drones over people's houses, and then to enforce

[31:01] it was very similar policy, and to enforce it, and then people were being threatened to get kicked off their insurance if they didn't trim their houses, even if it wasn't redevelopment. Nobody knows what's going to happen in this context. There's a whole lot of resources at risk, especially in the insurance industry. Sorry I'm going to talk over you can. I'm just looking at the back of your head so I can't flag you to say, make a comment. Sorry. I just if you remember the list of the various parts and pieces of the work up here. One of those is to look at some evaluation of how each of these strategies really is supporting and acknowledging that risk with underinsured or uninsured homeowners. I I will say, kind of to your anecdotal example and anecdotal back to you, although it's not anecdotal, is the work that we've done in support of Excel's wildfire mitigation plan. And we drove the settlement discussions in that process. We have already heard back from our bond Council that that has had a positive effect on our bond rating. So you you can draw the conclusion, then, that the bond market and insurers are paying close attention to what cities are actually doing to minimize risk in a very big way. So

[32:20] what we are doing in the building code. And then with our landscaping code is gonna have a significant benefit. And and just out of curiosity context, do insurance companies. Typically reference, the the will be, and and how they designate kind of or assess risk. I don't know. The total answer to that. I would say, Yes, but I think there's a a much more complex algorithm. Okay, that I won't speak to. But I'm happy to bring some more details to the next meeting from what we know, and we we have ongoing conversations with Bond Council for sure. and I'm almost done. I just wanted to make one more. I think important

[33:05] observation for you about how our knowledge and and thinking is evolving around urban landscapes. And this is kind of highlighted at the top of page 15. You, I'm sure, have all heard that the State passed a law requiring local government to develop landscaping codes around non-functional turf with the explicit intention that that work would help reduce serve a sub water supply use for outdoor landscaping when it wasn't essential right? And so it's sort of a part of a larger sort of way of seeing the world that, almost like the less water we put out in landscapes the better, because it makes more water available for water supply when certainly on on one level. That's true. But there's a really big caveat to this, which is that if we dehydrate our urban landscape to such an extent that it can't support life.

[34:13] Then we actually end up creating an increasingly hot and actually weed prone landscape that even in many cases results in people using more chemicals and herbicides to try to manage that. And so we've been working really hard with our water utilities department to consider what is the minimum level. It's sort of like the human body. What's the minimum level of hydration that we need in our urban landscapes to maintain these ecosystem services, that we need more of more shade, more healthy soil that can absorb water, more biodiversity that keeps those systems intact. So this and and that. In fact, one of the things that we're starting to find some evidence for is that landscapes are less likely to burn when they're hydrated.

[35:00] Of course it makes sense, right? So I just want you, especially as the Environmentally Advisory Board to be aware that it's not just as simple as to say, Oh, 0 scaping the less water we use outside the better. No, in fact, if we want these other things from our landscapes, they need to be able to be healthy. So with that, all said, I'll just close by pointing to the table. That's on page 17, as I said, what there there is what is required. There is what is recommended. and what we've been talking about primarily is what is required for profits that are doing development or redevelopment in that those 3 movie areas. And I'm sure you're now quite tired. I keep saying development or redevelopment. But that is such an important qualification. It is not required of anybody who lives in not required. But almost all the things that we require would be strongly recommended for people who have homes in the Louis area.

[36:02] So that's where you can see the distinctions that are made in this. This table on page 17 is sort of a match to a very similar table for the built environment, for what's required for buildings and wildfire codes. But this this one's what applies to landscapes. Jonathan, did I? We got anything that you wanted to make sure we cover just just a few additional comments. to add a bit more color. I appreciate you emphasizing the point about development redevelopment. There's been some council conversation about well, how do we address the other homes, the existing homes? So that's where we're partnering up. Obviously, with our home assessment program. All of our Grant program to really help homeowners address some of the risks, assess those risks and then go in and mitigate those risks there is a push from some Council members to do something retroactively to say, well, what could we do with those risks? What could we require? But that's not where the conversation is just yet. There's some exploration around that, and that's going to come back, I think, in the landscaping code. The other thing I wanted to mention to Brett's comment that there was some desire from Council to evaluate this non combustible zone, this 5 foot space, because in some of the smaller lots there. There is a pain point about growing food.

[37:27] for example, in that 1st 5 feet. So from the perspective, and and let me back up and say one thing, I wanna make sure you you hear this, that across all of the departments we are working very, very closely with one another to manage the multiple priorities that we're trying to address. And so from the Fires Fire Department's perspective, it's very clear they're going to say the best practice is no vegetation. If you have no fuels, you're not going to have fire, that that's their perspective. But at the same time they know we have multiple multiple priorities that we are trying to meet.

[38:04] And so that's where that that kind of group that I showed you on the screen with all of the departments is coming together to say, Well, what is the significant issue that we're trying to address? And so what that has allowed us to do is start to look at? Are there opportunities to explore being able to to grow food? And so the idea was, well, what if it's underground? What if it's in non combustible containers? Are there some options that we could create in that non combustible zone? And so, just starting to have some of that dialogue leads us to some really interesting discussion, and I just know Council is really supportive of trying to balance all of those needs. So that piece is not yet resolved. That's going to come back in the landscaping discussion for sure, some of the discussion about the plant list, which is a really exciting piece that that Brett and the team is doing is going to fulfill a need that that Council is really desiring to see and really balancing the piece around water use, and some of the other concerns that Brett raised.

[39:06] So what I was hoping to do for the board is I I'd love to just capture any broad thoughts that you have, and they can be anything in the wildfire space. I may try to address those, and if I won't, then I'll just make sure that the presentation we have for you in July will include that if you have specific recommendations, thoughts about the development of this particular resource guide. That will be, I think, a real centerpiece in the landscaping code update love to hear those that way. We can get those thought about early and often and again you will have another opportunity to think about this. I know we're hitting this with you, and didn't provide you an opportunity to review this in advance. so totally fair, just wanted to give you an opportunity just ask questions, providing any thoughts that you have. Ask a few questions so like you were saying, if if there are neighborhoods that want to do this proactively other resources of the city that we can contact, maybe

[40:12] walk through the neighborhood, you know, because some neighborhoods, for example, where I live, we have a little bit of a how many open space, right? And or you're right close to an open space, anyway. So is there options for that to? There's multiple resources. So the fire department maintains a team. Now that does what's called what are called detailed home assessments. So you can call and ask for a detailed home assessment, and you don't have to be in the area to right to be able to qualify for that, so that that's a great resource, and they can provide a lot of information about your parcel. I'm sure I don't know this to be I, and this has not come up in my conversations with them, but I'm sure that they would be open to doing a larger neighborhood area. So and we definitely look at these kind of shared or common spaces as part of those assessments. And then so there's that's 1 part, and then the second part is that we do have a grants program

[41:15] to support households. I don't know what the cycle of that is. Do you remember? Well, so the cycle is. The funding for that Grant program actually comes from our fund comes from the climate action funding. So we have reserved about 1 point. Well, not about 1.5 million dollars annually goes to Wildfire resilience work. And a big portion of that is the Grants program. So, and it's used for There's a lot of options. The majority of people in the 1st year last year was the 1st year that we offered it, mostly in vegetation management removing junipers, tree trimming. But those dollars are also available for other kind of hardening, looking at decking, looking at more fireproof siting. So the dollars are. We're going to expand the amount available for homeowners this year

[42:09] up to $2,000. So it gives a little bit more, and I'm happy to send out a link both to the Dha. Which is the detailed home assessment that you can sign up for, and then also to the Grant program. So you can. And it's it's very easy to get those dollars. Is there a training by the city for landscapers? We're working on that we wanted to get this done 1st and have an alignment with the fire Department and us and the Forestry Department about what we would train them in. But that is the next step. And then so the plan was a training for landscape professionals. so that we could create a list of professionals who have been through the training we can't recommend. But we could say, Here's a list of people who've been through a certified train. and then our our intention is to actually then have that training also available and designed for hoas.

[43:04] And then I think we probably will do one for the general community. but that those are the 1st 2 that we're looking at and the table, the you know the list of plants and grasses that's super useful. I suspect this is on the website. So when you do put it on the website, just one ask for me is still don't know what a developer looks like. And I'm embarrassed to say that right? So we can put pictures next to, you know, Link. So we can see. You know, this is what the plan that would be great. I'm gonna make a note to myself here, I'll make a text to my kids. Did did you have a yeah 2 questions that come to mind. One is have there been any estimates on the increase?

[44:01] The cost increases, or the the cost associated with, you know, new development? Or is this in development to comply with different classifications? I know it's early stage. Yeah, not. There's been no comprehensive successful, Daniel. I think part of it is, yeah. To be frank, the the requirement that the requirements are just being finalized in way we wouldn't have known how to do an analysis until we knew exactly what was being required. And then the second question is, if it looks like, you know, for these different, you know, zones areas. those obviously fall over. You know, neighbor property lines. And so is there any thought about a legal kind of like obligation? Yeah, legal obligation. Or like,

[45:02] some type of structure framework to to facilitate discussions. And if there's like, you know, a inability to come to a consensus or lack of participation, how, how does that get resolved? I've heard of no formal mechanism that can compel a neighbor to take an action because of the risk that that might emerge over time I think of it's a little ironic. But to be honest with you, this set of diagrams, that sort of show what those boundaries look like in an urban context. That's the 1st time we even had graphics that showed an urban context. All the ones before were out were graphics, as if you were living out there in Federal. So I think that it's it's just to emphasize that this isn't really an emergent space. I would offer just the comment that I think that there is going to be some balancing between what falls into the required category, in which case we have code enforcement, and yes, a mechanism to address those requirements. And what's in that recommended category? We do have other precedent like our tree protection ordinance that sets forward a

[46:19] essentially a process by which if you are so say you're you're at odds with your neighbor, because you have want solar on your roof, and your neighbor's tree is shading your solar. There's a process in place to help mitigate and manage some of that so we have other ways that we could kind of lean on some process that we already have in place. But I I like Brett said. I don't think that we're quite there yet. Right now we are building as fast as we can. And this is program. That kind of went from 0 to 100 and about a year and a half, and I'm really really proud of the work that's been done so far. But I think that's a really important point. To think through my guess. To be honest with you is that it will start being driven by the insurance industry. I can speak to your question. I will say that my boyfriend probably gets recruited once a week to come to his insurance companies and turns it down. That's just like a personal anecdote that yeah, they reach out, and that's not his path in life, and probably will be someone else's. They're very interested in at least I can name like 5 or 6 companies that are

[47:26] recruiting actively people at Cu under the professors they just named and similar at Uc. Santa Barbara and they all do this paperwork. It's really amazing. My question is kind of 2 parts with the community outreach. Obviously, like. I've known about this for years. I'm really educated. I'm really fortunate. How do you plan to like outreach to people, to even tell them that they might live in the movie like they could have own their home or like, is there going to be any type of offering of like

[48:01] you? Wanna move, not forcing people, but like any type of resources for people who might not. Obviously it sounds like the websites can be comprehensive. So. But you know any type of outreach to people who are in this map, and who might be very confused, because I know like know, I'm in this map, but I like I live on downtown boulder. I could see my neighbors being like, why are we in the louis like and so like just outreach people like. So they can build awareness around the Louis There's a a lot that's in development around communications around this. But just again remembering that we haven't even taken these codes through final approval, council. So, and as Jonathan said, the it would be hard to over emphasize how much we suddenly started to put in place from not having anything. I mean. There used to be one half of a position in the fire department to provide people guidance about what to do. And now we have a team of 4.

[49:05] You know, there used to be no grants program. So there's just a lot that's being stood up. So I don't. And I don't think, you know we didn't get into this situation, you know, overnight, and we're not going to get to a better place overnight. It's going to take literally years, I think, of setting these things in motion and continuing to adapt, as we learn. And then my other question, just to consider going forward is, Are there any best practices from the Los Angeles fires? I know that the fire department here is in close communication with the fire chief in La. But is there anything specific that you feel like you've adapted, based on what happens, there's more I'm sorry to mean to cut you off, but there's more, and I'll just give you my perspective. I don't don't hold this against me, but a couple of weeks ago I I participate in a a conference in Maui, and I was there, having a really interesting conversations 2 years in a row that we've talked about the interesting intersection between the Marshall fire, Lahaina preparedness, recovery, both in terms of infrastructure.

[50:14] What what do we need to do in terms of codes to be more flexible? If we have commercial space that people could be housed in temporarily? How do we create that opera. You know that space and that level of flexibility this year it was the same, but we added the la piece to it, and so we had the director of the office of Infrastructure Safety, who is an agency appointed by the State that works side by side with the public Utilities Commission to oversee and help the utilities meet their requirements in terms of vegetation management. How are they going to maintain safety in their systems? So we had a really interesting dynamic conversation about what did we learn from the La Experience? And there's always learnings right there. There the emergency operations piece. There's the recovery piece things that we hadn't considered. But the preparedness piece and the risk

[51:11] management and risk mitigation is enormous. and we know from our experiences here in the last couple of years. Not just Marshall, but the ancillary impact or the secondary impact of power. Public safety power shutoffs. Well, yes, we're going to shut down and de-energize systems. Is that the right thing? Do we want to underground? Do we want to do more vegetation management? So everyone's just kind of coming at it with their ideas, and the the lesson is, I think, one a big one. That Brett already mentioned is the idea that no vegetation is best practice. Well, it might be, but in many cases, like you said, they were finding that some of the deciduous and high moisture content trees were actually creating buffers and shields. So how do we bring that into the discussion? What is that? What do we learn from that?

[52:02] So I won't go into the details of some of the discussion about more of the evacuation. How do we make sure that those most vulnerable are notified? There's a lot of that work going on with our partnership with the emergency Operations center. Who works on that team that I was mentioning earlier, too. So the lands, the plans that you picked. Has that been thought between what's native and what's not non native heavily towards native? Our team is probably holding and carrying a lot of that biodiversity view and focus. We can't just use natives, but we have been for a whole bunch of reasons, partly drought, tolerance, and also a lot of it. So. Yes, it's absolutely just curious. Cottonwood trees, are they native? Some cottonwoods are native, and the the problem from a forester's perspective with cottonwoods is that they're essentially a short live species. They get quite large, and then they become quite a massive risk. Once they they rot from the inside out, and then they can fall and create enormous damage. So it's a it's complicated. And, believe me, our

[53:18] get into friendly arguments with our portion. We I mean, for example, they'll say, Oh, aspen! Aspen's not appropriate down here. See that aspen struggle with the aspen is struggling because it's surrounded by turf, and it can't breathe, and so, you know, if you do a lot of companions around the 5. So it's I mean box of one of our few native trees. All box elders are ugly, and they lead to Box Elder bugs. So we're not going to use it. So it's an emergent piece. Other than the the fires in la, are there other municipalities or agencies that you are

[54:00] following, or that are provided, have provided you guidance. That kind of are on the leading edge of this, and you're taking a page out by playbook. Well, we're right now, researching Tree protection strategies and looking a lot at Sonoma. You remember the fires in Santa Rosa and those areas. So that's an area that we've been looking at closely. There's some places back east. So we are trying to look at best practices, not just about fire, but other aspects of how we maintain. You know these healthy landscapes we need, and with wizard kind of determining, like the the criteria for native species versus non native, and then trees. I'm assuming that if there's you know these that have died, or whatnot that would fall, you know, even if it's

[55:00] as a living native tree. But if it's if it's died, I'm assuming, then that change would change the classification potentially. And what's allowed within those different, you know, zone parameters. Yeah, now, you're getting into another area. That is sort of earlier stage. We're starting to look at trying to do basically an ecological assessment of the city. We've never really tried to look at or manage the city as an ecosystem. We manage it, as you know, trees over here, and green infrastructure piece over there, some turf over here and so, and in that process of of trying to create a way of seeing the ecological dynamics of the city. We're looking at the possibility of having some zones because we have different ecological settings within our own city here, even smaller than it is. So that's coming. And a lot of the reason that we created cool boulder was to engage the community in that discussion and then support them in really starting to do more of that, because the vast majority of land in Boulder is not controlled by the city, you know, except through code and ordinance. It's it's private.

[56:12] So we need to find ways to to incent and support people to do some of these things. So in fact, you'll get this from us later, probably in the year. But we're going to create something called the Climate Resilient Landscape challenge that will launch next spring. And it's probably gonna be a 2 or 3 year cycle. It's sort of similar to what we did 10 years ago around the boulder energy challenge. which was an initiative to foster and encourage innovation from the community around how to create energy systems. Transition. Well, this is the same thing around climate, resilient landscapes. How do we like have people nominate what's the best place that you've seen around in terms of fire resilience in terms of biodiversity in terms of water absorption. So that'll be coming, and it's to try to invite us all into that discussion of what we, what we want to see in that way.

[57:02] I wonder if you could include fire in the name of that challenge. Somehow I feel like some people might be more motivated by their own keeping their house safe. 1st helping the climate. Well, there's like lots of different motivations. Yeah, some people are really motivated by bees totally and birds. So but yes, I mean, there will be a category for fire. Don't have questions, but I do want to say this is great. I mean, without reading it. I think it's really comprehensive, and I love that you included like details like mulch, and like just everything, even when you have a list of your of landscapers like anything that takes away friction for people. I think it's just really, really helpful. So yeah, I'm so sorry that you haven't really had a chance to look at it, and we will get you a version once it's I mean, it's a delicate process when you're trying to balance a lot of different departments interests and needs in these process. But I'm really, I just have to say, as Jonathan has probably said many times, we're so fortunate that we live in and we work within

[58:10] an organization that is truly committed to trying to find a way to balance a lot of different things. It's not a it's not a big turf battle in general, it's just like we gotta figure out how to balance all these things. So it's a city council. Are you getting good reception from the city council? Are you getting pushback? We haven't brought this forward. You're actually seeing it before they have. No the. But you did have another discussion right? That was building codes. That was the building code and the designation expansion of the Wui and obviously it spilled over into this discussion about the the footprint. So, looking at the built structure, and then that non combustible zone. And so they were. They were wrestling around some elements of the building and what should be required, and then they wrestled a little bit in that non combustible zone, and then they said, Well, that then. So the 5 feet to 30 or 5 feet to the lot line. We're gonna we're gonna talk about that. And the landscaping code update.

[59:12] So the answer is, yes, this is a priority. That council put on their list at their retreat last year that they really wanted the city. They wanted the departments to come together to develop a more comprehensive approach to wildfire resilience. And that's precisely what we're doing. So they again, those elements that are gonna go to council are policy related. So it's in the regulations. That's why they're seeing the building code. That's why they're gonna see landscape code. Other elements don't necessarily have to go to them that we're trying to give them the whole package to so they can see the Grants program, the various assessments. It's all part of and that's why I showed you that list of all the various plans that are starting to kind of reflect. That common common thread bit. Last time I want to come back to your your question about outreach and Brett is absolutely right. We've not done any outreach on this piece of it.

[60:07] but there is a lot of work going into developing a stronger communications plan around what services and programs are available. And so your comment about living in the Wui, I don't think that right now, people don't need to know whether they live in the Wui unless they're going to build a new home or do a major remodel in addition. And so then they're gonna find out. There's a whole long list of things that they have to do to build new. And in boulder right now we're focused on. How do we educate and inform and get people to do some of those voluntary actions? And and that's where our focus is now. And you're going to see a big push in the upcoming months around. What should you be doing at your home? What are what are the most important things that you could be doing, and when you're ready to do it we'll we'll show you and we'll help you pay for it. That's essentially the program that we're building right now. So that brings up. I have a few questions, but that brings up one of my questions is in this category of suggested changes. I imagine that there could be

[61:07] some issues between landlords and renters in that class of folks right where you have the people who are actually living in the house that are vulnerable in a physical sense. Given a fire situation, the landlords are more vulnerable in a financial sense, but really it's up to the landlords to decide what they want to do with their property, and they're making a decision essentially for their tenants. Water in many ways not completely powerless, but somewhat perilous. And the at, the at the grace or whims of their landlord. This is not something I know that we can like regulate. But is there any conversation about how to balance that or incentivize, so that the people who live in the place are somewhat protected. Yeah, thank you. Thanks for raising that. And and sorry if I just talked over. You're good. Thanks for raising that. There has been some discussion about that. And the Grants program is being expanded to hoas because there's a lot of common areas and hoas

[62:07] don't necessarily budget for those kinds of things and for to us we just want to make sure that we're taking care of any or mitigating any issues we can regulate. And the precedent there is our smart Regs program that we administer through my department, and that is energy efficiency requirements on rental housing. We can look at something similar. We've talked a little bit about how we might do that. We have not resolved it yet. but fully acknowledge the the tension that you're raising. Sorry question. So for insurance companies, obviously, you know, covering the the the loss of the the property is, you know, their their incentive from a municipal or city standpoint, you know. There's, you know. hazard mitigation. There's disaster, relief. There's you know evacuation.

[63:04] What are some of the other major kind of like risks that the city faces, you know, that is providing the incentive, for, you know a lot of the. You know this development of these these protocols. Is there anything else that kind of missing of risk exposure? The city, or, you know, big, obviously other than you know the the loss of like, you know utilities, or you know, other property, you know what not. But is there anything else that either from the Marshall fires or from the the virus there. and driving this like and saying, Okay, if we don't do this, you know, here's the risk exposure that we have. And so it makes sense for us to implement this policy. So you know, you kind of have the 2 different perspectives like, yes, okay. There may be some burdens here to comply, but but if we don't like, here's what we're exposed to like. Here's what could happen. Does that make sense?

[64:01] I I think so. Let me take a swing at it and answer it this way. cities are always thinking about risk exposure, but also magnitude of risk and probability of that risk. and especially being in a place like Boulder, where we are the highest at risk community in the State. For both wildfire and flooding. It's been part of our DNA for quite a while to understand the probability of those risks. What's the likelihood? What's the magnitude? And how do we think about that balance? And I think that's what you're getting at, which is yes, there is an investment to be made. But if we don't make it. Here's the exposure on the back end. We've we've done a lot of that work, particularly in the space isolated to fire, isolated to flooding, and it looks at things like, well, what is the impact

[65:02] from? I'll use an example. You have these compounding threats, these compounding risks where you have a hillside burn, and then, as we know, then you get a rainstorm, and then you have severe flooding. You have damage to infrastructure. You have incredible amount of sediment going into your water system. We saw that happen in Fort Collins after the Pooter fire, where their water system, their water filtration water plant was compromised so heavily because all of that sediment went into the Poodoo River, and their system was not equipped to handle that, and they had to shut down their system until it sedimented out a little bit. So, starting to look at those isolated kind of pockets. Of how do we understand that risk and mitigate. That i. 1 of the things that we've also looked at is financial risk. And we started this process several years ago. And oddly, it wasn't related to these specific threats, but it was to try to understand

[66:06] the monetary risk that cities, particularly boulder, has, that you could equate or kind of connect to climate change. And it's part of our lawsuit against Exxonmobil and Suncor. because we're trying to quantify damage, to say, as a city taxpayers have to pay for services you have to pay to fill potholes and typical operations that cities have to do on a regular basis. What happens when we see those climate driven impacts, whether they are storms, extreme heat. What's the impact to our asphalt and roadways? What's the impact to our culverts, our trails? You have to look at all of those things and put a dollar figure to that. And those dollar figures increase pretty rapidly as you start to think about all of the potential impacts. So I'm making this longer than it needs to be, except to say that the organization has been thinking about this risk for a long time. And now we are looking at it more from a climate perspective. Which is very interesting. And we're thinking about it as what are the big areas of risk. So, as I mentioned, excel, and thinking about their infrastructure.

[67:16] there is a distinct reason why we are in the Wildfire mitigation plan. Looking at their 75 to 100 year old infrastructure. Looking at where those risks exist, starting to talk about where we might want to invest, to support aggressive hardening of their system, maybe not just undergrounding, but adding reclosers and other devices, and thinking about the Public Safety power shutoffs as a tactic. So all of those things kind of go back to your question is of how do we think about risk in a different way? And I will say we have some really really smart people that have been doing it in isolation, in our utilities department, in the Fire Department and our Open Space Department, who are now bringing that skill to a broader view as a city, and it's it's very cool to see that emerging. So I think you'll hear a lot more about

[68:09] that in the coming year or so, I would guess hopefully. That was a sufficient answer to your question. Oh, sorry. It's the ability for a system. If you look at. I'll just kind of point out if you look at a distribution system. When there is a potential arc, a fire hazard right? So high winds, and you have lines that start to arc and you have molten materials that are essentially dropping into flammable materials underneath the utility can. It's rather than shutting off the entire system, which is the typical course of action, because, like well. you have an entire system. You add reclosers to in segment portions of the distribution system. So if you know it's in one neighborhood rather than shutting off all of downtown, they can isolate it very quickly and just shut off that portion that's most vulnerable and at risk, until it's safe to re-energize it. So. And it's all done automatically. So the the system, as they start to add smart controls.

[69:12] It can signal when there is a trip, and it automatically essentially shuts off or sectionalizes that portion of the distribution system where normally like, oh, something happened on that line right there. Let's just say that Pole got hit by a car and it fell down. Everything between downtown and north boulder would be shut down typically. and the system could isolate that and really just shut off. Say, a 3 block area. Thank you. Yeah, I have 2 more questions, if okay, great. So one of them is, is there discussion or decisions on how the requirements are enforced? Is that part of the conversation. I assume it's part of the conversation. But has a decision been made about how to enforce the requirements for new and redeveloped? Sure, yeah, yeah, I mean, it's our planning and development services department deals with those kind of requirements. Every single standard team. Yes, yes. So they sit in discussions. And they're basically thinking about the design compliance.

[70:19] Okay? And then final question, this is maybe a bit of a 1 off. But since Mulch is part of this conversation. I know the city has, like their mulch piles. Right? Is there any enforcement or discussion about? If that's a dangerous thing in this regard? And if that has to be adjusted. Or is that fine as is? Yeah, I haven't heard that discussed. We we're actually looking at. There is a wood product mulch that we're basically saying can be used even in the zone. It requires a little bit more processing like a second grinding to get it to that stage.

[71:01] so I don't. I don't know if that's gonna result in us, basically not having this sort of raw mulch pile anymore. Try to get everything hadn't really considered that. Because that's that's another part of my our department funds, that program and essentially supplements the dollars to make sure that people's yard waste is being mulched, and then it's offered free of charge. So yeah, I hadn't thought about that. Isn't the latest thing not to mulch in gardening, or is that not a thing. Oh, no, mulch is super important. It's still important. Keeping the soil covered so that it can retain moisture is probably one of the most important things. You can't have a vegetation there. Then the mulch is the next best thing. Okay? Question. Sorry we had to pivot a little bit just because, oh, gosh, yeah, we should not get ahead of the other, like the broader presentation which you'll see so sorry it'll be a little bit redundant at your next meeting, but it'll be different. Speakers kind of talking about the other elements that we didn't talk about tonight.

[72:16] Nice to see you all. Thank you. And clearly you are welcome to take the. Are we collecting the packets? Didn't think so. It's not proprietary information, but just know it is a draft document. Yeah, the the landscape piece, I believe. see if it's on our agenda. It's going to council the end of July. So it's not that long the work that Brett and the team are doing on the plant list is just one module that will go into the landscaping piece because it's fire wise and water wise

[73:14] and that material will need to go to council, I would say, by the beginning of July, so probably a month I'm looking at you. Mostly because you have the dates memorized in your head off, and I think it goes public a week before it goes. July 24th ballpark. I'm looking now. 20 will be 26. Think the meeting was stupid. Okay, it's you know what's after their recess, isn't it? Yes, 31? st

[74:01] Oh, no, that's ours. That's the help you build instrument. It it was updated since then. So let me, I can pull up the more recent document. Okay? Oh, there it is. Waterway. Yeah, it's on July 24, th yeah. So waterways, landscaping and wildfire hardening update is on July 24.th So you're saying it has to be in before a week a week before that date. So yeah, council packets are typically available the week prior to a council meeting. We don't have anything for publicators or old business. So unless you have any changes. But I don't, I think it's just the council calendar. Brief. Yep, great. Yeah. Again. Say apologies for a light, a light agenda, and I should apologize for that.

[75:01] So a couple of things again, just to flag one. We've already talked about a number of times. the the big one that you're gonna see at your next meeting. We're gonna be talking about our embodied carbon work. And then, of course, pairing that with the next wildfire piece, and just to give you an update on what that is, we don't have a plan for that to go back to council yet, but I'm signaling that it will. So we'd like to get this on your calendar. Well in advance. So this was another element that was tied to the update, to our codes. It was our energy code update that happened earlier this year. So there was the energy code. Then we had the building code update. Then we had the landscaping code update. So in the energy code discussion we were working with Council to really address this idea of embodied carbon, and it was not appropriate to to do in the energy code. The building code is really where that lives. And so we went ahead and did the updates to the building code, and we'll come back and we'll modify that ordinance. Once we have some work done, we have a we're selecting a consultant right now to provide policy recommendations on embodied carbon that could look

[76:12] a lot of different ways. It could be regulation of requirements around low embodied materials that are high carbon content. Usually, that's concrete and steel. That's what some cities have done. You can do a lifecycle analysis. Which is a little bit more challenging. but we are working with a number of jurisdictions that have kind of led on embodied carbon, some European cities. And so we're selecting a consultant to help identify both best practices and policy recommendations that could be taken forward to council in the next. Well, it'll be yeah. You'll get that update, and then we'll go. Take that to council later this year. It's my job. So that's that piece. And then the healthy you. You've seen a couple of presentation presentations now of our healthy buildings roadmap that will be going to council on July 31.st I don't think we have that scheduled to come back before then, do we? We actually have to go back to August 28.th We do, and that will come back to the board.

[77:26] That's right. Sorry. Yes, so you are going to see that before it goes back to council, and a lot of that will be the results of some of our engagement work. You might remember that last time Crystal and Carolyn presented on this item a couple of months ago. we are moving into the engagement process to really understand what are the elements that are most important to community? And then how does that fit into the recommendations and the roadmap piece and so that's what you'll see next, and then we'll do a study session with Council to give them a sense of where we want to head, and that'll include some recommendations likely to look at some of our existing requirements like smart regs.

[78:11] To say, is it still doing what we want it to do? Do we still want it in its current form? So part of the engagement is to understand whether or not. We need to modify that our energy impact offset fund, which is requirements for marijuana grow operations. We're going to talk about whether or not that's still an effective policy. So we're going through and doing that evaluation and then making some recommendations council. so that one and I think we have a water update that we wanted to get scheduled with you as well. That's coming in July waterway. Nope. I can't. It should have been oh, there it is! July 31, st the water supply information. It's on the same night as our healthy buildings roadmap.

[79:00] It's okay trying to get that on the calendar, too. and I'll just note that some of the calendar dates did change after this addition of Cac summary. So I will have an update more updated one at the next meeting. Can you provide a little more information on what the 4 30th Street Preliminary design project. community environmental assessment process? What that is for June 26th on page nothing. Number 3 on the meeting. I just I just don't know what that entails. Oh, so a seat is essentially, thank you. Yeah, I I just always here. So a seat environmental assessment that Staff has to go through for any construction project essentially. And so this is a a design of North 30.th So there's going to be some redevelopment there. And this is the the report will be what kind of environmental issues need to be considered in that redevelopment process. So it's a streets project. I don't know exactly what it all entails, but I'm happy to share the details.

[80:15] Okay, cool. Thank you. Yeah. Okay. And I think that. That is not a street project. Sorry. Let me correct myself. But my apologies, that is actually a development project on North 30.th And so there needs to be the seep that go. That's why it's under call of check in. So it's goes to planning board, and then council has an opportunity to call that up if they don't agree with or want to have more conversation. And don't just want to listen, not say negatively, but like, well, the planning board had their conversation, but we'd like a little bit more information, so they can call that up, and it may come to them as an official agenda item.

[81:03] But I'm happy to flag that one and provide the details over email. And then the other things I just wanted to share from tonight. I had written down my tasks, gonna send the Council memo on the building code update that includes a lot of the background on the discussion. So you have that I'm going to send links to the detailed home assessment program page and also the Grant Program page. Those are the 3 3 things. If I miss anything. And then I have a handful of questions that I don't think we sufficiently answered, and we'll make sure that those come back to you at your next meeting. Cute. Oh, my God! Alright! I think our final agenda item inside our July meeting date. So I know it sounds like we have members on both option days that will not be able to attend. So I think.

[82:03] if second, yeah. So yeah. The second July second, Wednesday, July second would be our regularly scheduled meeting. Friday is July 4.th So there's obviously travel potential there and then. The rescheduled date of July 9th the following Wednesday. I think Hannah and you're out of town. Yeah. And we had 2 members unlikely to be available. July second. And are you okay? If we just go with a majority presence is that, do other people have talk to your comments? Preference. I can do that as of now. Yes, and and then you're away. The July second. Yeah. Traveling on family vacation preference would be the nightfam. So 9, th we will have 4 of us on the 9.th Yeah.

[83:03] let's go with the 9, th and you can make July second highest. I didn't know. Sorry I didn't know her. But turn on was done on the morning. So July second, we would have 3 people. So yeah, I'm available. July second. No, I'm not available. Do either of you have preferences and your availability, travel, etcetera? Or is there a reason to give an extra week weeks worth of preparation from the new topic. It is certainly discretion of the board. We'll we'll we'll manage whatever schedule you choose. My, my guess is, and I'm just speculating that the team

[84:03] that will be here for the Wildfire discussion. A few of them are probably going to be on high alert on the second, as they prepare for any of the July 4th activities, just making sure areas of town are patrol protected all of the stuff. So I I'm speaking on their behalf without them, knowing I'm speaking on their behalf, that I would guess the 9th would probably be better. Does that require a motion to move that meeting alright, I I motion to move our next meeting to Wednesday, July 9.th Second favor. Good. Great. Okay. I think that's oh, I guess we also have here attendance check for August meeting. Which I, off the top of my head don't know the date itself, but the 1st Wednesday of August we'll have plans to be out of town. If we need to discuss rescheduling.

[85:05] we can always discuss July 9th as long as we know what Hannah's schedule looks like, because she'll be out. But yeah, I don't think that far ahead, but I can only guess that I will be. I have nothing else that I can join. Virtually this is like the welcome party that didn't exact time of the board meeting. Okay, I think we'll stick with our August as scheduled for. Now return, the meeting, like the meeting is adjourned. Sort of close to. Oh, yeah, no problem. You get 30 min.