November 1, 2023 — Environmental Advisory Board Regular Meeting

Transcript

Captions from City of Boulder YouTube recording.

[0:00] So that makes I am in the agenda. So there's no public participation. So yeah, I give it to you for the must be the program update. I can, if Chairman, be mine, I'd just see this up really quickly. For the record, I'm gonna go and direct you. I just wanted to maybe give a little context to the board. Why we felt it was important to bring, tonight's conversation to the board on why we felt it was important to bring, tonight's conversation to you for, some, board on why we felt it was important to bring, tonight's conversation to you for, some feedback and some thoughts and just reactions. Joining tonight is our, what is your title now, the senior incologist? I think that's right. So, Real, I got it right. Really excited for you all to meet Real and if you haven't already, in our department of climate initiatives, he moved over and joined us a little over a year ago, I believe you haven't already, in our department of climate initiatives, he moved over and joined us, a little over a year ago, I believe, in our department of climate initiatives. He moved over and joined us, a little over a year ago, I believe, now a year and a half. I can't even, but we've worked with R for many, many years on this particular program. So, Real is gonna, go through some of the results and talk to the board tonight about our mosquito control program, but really what I hope the board takes from this conversation is really the approach that we have been taking for many, many years, how we've really continued to evolve our thinking around ecosystems management, the role that our mosquito control program

[1:16] actually plays within that. And one of the things I'm not sure I've not seen the presentation that you're going to see tonight, but one of the things that Raleigh has been doing over the past year or so is really helping reshape and rethink our integrated pest management or our IPM program. So how do we think about the use of chemicals, how we think about the use of pesticides overall on city, property. H and so tonight and I think you can see the title up there is really really reframing and thinking differently about what have we learned in this process and the way we think about our mosquito control program, which is really, I think, a pretty cutting edge and has been for some time. And then what have we learned and we're going to go and that's really what we wanted to bring to the board tonight.

[2:00] That they get that kind of right, Rolla. So, I'll just introduce, the amazing, and, and she'll take it from me. Alright, thank you. And then I'm gonna take you through. For some of you might be a little bit of review, but not too much. I wanna kinda dig right into what was on crazy. So mosquitoes. Drink nectar, males and females. And they do it. Entire lines. That's where they get their energy source. Only the female takes a blood meal only when she needs to have a protein and nutrients for to make her eggs. So, they often take a couple of Get a pathogen and if they're, a species is capable of. Replicating and transmitting that package and then pass it on to another host.

[3:06] So there's just people really don't think about how many species in the skews there are. You think mosquitoes, they're bad, they bite. But like many other insects there is tons of biodiversity. And I'm going to keep, emphasizing how important diversity is. In different species and ecosystems and the approach that we're using and understanding what we need to do. So similar to we have, you know, thinking about these, you know, we have, about 4,000 species and in the United States that worldwide or 4,000 species in the United States that worldwide or 4,000 mosquito species. Most of those don't carry disease. Reptiles, birds, you know, they can even like, there's some kind of like a, or fish or something that can be a host. So maybe they have the cost preferences. Some of them are very specific and some of them. Host and if that's the case and then it has more risk for passing a path into other animals.

[4:13] So in the US we have about 200 species in Colorado around 50 and we typically catch about 12 in our traps. So that's the amount those are the diversity that we're looking at. But there's a whole lot of other, aquatic flies that are out there. The caromatans are really important. Slies, they're non biting hedges. So they're similar. They look like this. People get the mixed up they have similar. Life cycle where they're often present with mosquitoes and habitats and they're often present with mosquito where they're often present with mosquitoes and habitats and they are foundations of quality chains and so on mosquitoes. So we need to think about that. We're thinking about how we're going to control them. So you're gonna you're here, mosquito control people always second back QUEUEs here because K is a genius of mosquitoes that can't transmit.

[5:01] The rest of them we refer to as non-factor. A lot of those already called blood water mosquitoes which are really weird lifecycle. So, and you know, you think that the typical mosquito is laying their eggs on the water. It's what helix mosquitoes do they often have little rats and then they go through the whole life cycle. In the water. They have to go through the website. But, the, they'll die, it drives up or it's disrupted somehow. But the floodwater mosquitoes are the ones we see huge numbers up in the spring. And one day, it was a famously their eggs on dry mud. I mean, I'm, I'm mad. Ben Drys out and the mosquitoes have to dry almost like a spore. So, so the eggs dry out, and they can build up. And I can see, I, I, see, bank and you end up with. Like you can have years accumulation of eggs sometimes. And then when it floods, weather, Then they hatch and then they have to go through the whole life cycle again. That's why we and we get these huge synchronous emergencies of those types of mosquitoes.

[6:00] Now these 2 can coexist in similar habitats and you're not going to see bloodline mosquitoes laying eggs in the container in your yard as you are with But now in the environment when something, stuff like one, and so, and the QUEUE, it's females will come up with their eggs. So we often see them in their eggs. So we often see them in similar sites. And that's fairly common. I'm going to jump right into, the way that we gauge. Risk of West Nile virus. We use something called a vector index. Am I think it was a when we trap, the, dog mosquitoes, we look at, their key and so they're identified down to species. And the Kelix mosquitoes are taken and remember what we call Sentinel Trout since sent for testing to see they're infected with West Nile. And there's an arbitrary, value that's, vector index, which is used to estimate when you have enough.

[7:04] West Nile virus circulating in the mosquito population at the risk of transmission to people is likely. So when we see that happening. Then we know that we're probably gonna start. We're starting to start to amplify you start start going up and then you know that you're probably gonna start seeing human cases. Yeah, the threshold is point 0 point 7 5. So this was last year, as you can see on the end, where we are city of folder. We hardly had any. West Nile, But if you look at these other zones, this is both accounts. You sound one is around and this part of the county where we are zone 2 is line month and zone 3 is, carrier that's that area. Now, this year, you know, you can see that they normally don't have numbers that high and some of the experts are really alarmed and they saw these numbers over 2.

[8:08] Cause that's really rare to see them that high. This, and but this year we have really, really high scale numbers and I'm sorry for this kind of lousy graphic ticket off our dashboard. But we, this, we track every week, we update our dashboard so we can track what's happening with mosquitoes and council gets report each week. And our dashboard compares the last couple of years just so we can see and you can see we had some pretty. . And at least they're all species of mosquitoes. A lot of these are the And every year it gets higher. So if I were to show you a few years, you know, running, you would see getting higher and higher. The Skeeto numbers are increasing drastically all over the world despite all these measures to try to manage them. But, and I want you to see is that this is off the car on the department of health and environments website where they track it.

[9:06] So they're only looking at health and environments website where they track it. So they're only looking at the past 5 years, but you can see we had a big surge in That's still not anywhere hot nearly as size it was. And the first came here, and we had, the epidemic, where it was, we had hundreds of cases. And then it came down and it's been staying down, ever since. So this is a little bit of a pull up in that. But here are the vector index numbers for this year. So we, this is from, publication. So they actually have us in there on the in the city of Boulder. And though we did have some. In fact, the mosquitoes, we usually do. You can see we never went past point 7 5. And the times that we did have effective skills were fairly low. And I'll look at the other places. We have that is untrusted and I don't know if you've ever seen vector index numbers like that. So it was like a real anomaly. So, you know, I seeing these numbers come in and when you manage a mosquito program, you're always worried like what's gonna happen.

[10:08] If we start having really high cases, what can we do? Yes, most of the things that other jurisdictions are doing isn't working and this is kind of obvious. So here's just looking at the percentage of QUEUEs of the overall skin that was just for us. These are just our traps in Boulder. And you can see we had, you know, some fairly high percentages. But by the time we were having these higher percentages was later in the season. So the overall rescue numbers are going down, so it's not quietness as fast. Fairly typical last peers. But what I did is I was I was kind of tracking what was going on in other areas. Okay, so. Their contractor puts up on a map where the spray routes are and the trap and I haven't got the trap numbers from these little markers that were around the site just to see what was going on.

[11:07] And I have never seen anything like this. So the number in parentheses. Okay. The number and parentheses is QUEUE and then the top number is the total number of mosquitoes. So, and I know this is just like this top, lines are ours. And, our track numbers for that week out of our report. So you can see we were between like 4. And I thanks covering up here. Okay, so we were between, you know, for the lowest and our very highest track. It's like 2, 1 76. And that must have been a pretty high track. Overall. Oops, sorry, let me do that. We had 1,357 kilos in all of our traps. Now look at these.

[12:04] 1,380 and one trap, 2746, 1213. You know these are huge numbers in these chat numbers are high and this is after they sprayed repeatedly every single week and they just kept climbing and climbing and people were incredibly worried. So why? I know. I remember. Precisely. And as I'm looking back on what we have done and what other jurisdictions are doing. I really think. The evidence is, all over the place, but particularly in There's such a difference in managing the ecosystem versus focusing on killing a pest. And there's all kinds of reasons for that. One of them is that you when you're trying to kill something.

[13:06] First of all, they can become resistant to whatever method you're using. But it always has collateral impact around, to non-. And you can get resurgence of other pests sometimes and in this type of. Management. We know that QUEUE Cashly can avoid pesticides. They know how to avoid the, insecticides that they're spraying. And they're becoming assistant. So when people are using what they call a test centric approach, they treat symptoms, it's managing, you know, the system and thinking about the underlying issue might be. And you think they think about the person isolation instead of how it fits into the web. And then people keep using the same approach you get more and more reactive as it gets worse. So if you get more weeds, if you get more, you just spray more and more and more trying to kill them.

[14:03] And often that doesn't work at all. That's what we're seeing happen here. So our integrated pest management policy. It's this these these aspects of their unchanged from when it started when it's really an ecosystem management approach. So we're looking at how we No. I manage to overall biodiversity, ecosystem health. And usually what happens if you get organisms pretty much staying within fairly stable. B if there is not too many interventions happening. So one of the, was I'm talking to you about what we're doing, as opposed to some of the other, Okay, I'll talk to you how that works at IPM. So it's really important that you You map everything, you know where you know you're going to have. Potential. Test B in so that you can keep track of what their density is. So we have over 500 sites that are mapped for mosquitoes and those are.

[15:09] About 300 of them are checked every week and 200, monthly. And that all depends on 30. Is it 30 years now? No, about 20 years worth of data. We've been keeping track of. How many mosquitoes are in all of these sites? We keep a running count all these years. So we have this historic data. I don't think anyone else in this state is actually even. Counting the number of, that they have if they see when they treat. And another thing that's really different about us is the QUEUE, the ones that can, transmit just happen to have these long side things all the end of their tails. I can't, they don't have gills, they can't breathe air in the water. So they have to come up to the surface to get air. And it's like a snorkel that they can stick up and get air. And you can tell the skilled person can tell the difference between them and these other groups of the scales either have a little short side then or some of them actually like and so water you get their little sphericals.

[16:10] So they can tell the different smoking because those siphons are so big on, And the way that they, monitor for them is they have these polls with cups on me and then they go on dipping and they know what type of habit they'll be in. Then they look at it and they are people count. They count how many are Kelx and how many are, the other types of mosquitoes. And then the treatment for larvae size, most often used is something called PTI. That's, the, so, this, this is really insists, which is, so that here it was discovering soil and it, crystals in it better than our toxic proteins that once they ingest those it tares up there and digest the system. So they're supposed to be. Fair. There's several BTs and they're supposed to be.

[17:07] Specific for different groups of instances one for laps, moss and butterflies, This one for But what we don't, really understand so much cross, reactivity there is between them back. And say that shows that there is some. But the one thing we do know is that they take out 5 license general. So those, are so important. The food chain are impacted by them. And then we have study showing and it goes up. So when you start impacting them, you know, the flies, and you start impacting them, you know, the flies, and you start impacting the, that they'd be on or the, the, that they'd be on, the, the, that they'd be on or the organic matter, they'd be not changes some of their chemistry. It changes the predators that feed on them, like, and then that can impact per populations. So long term studies, we know that there are.

[18:00] So just because something's a natural product doesn't mean it's not gonna have serious thing that you can't just use it because it's a natural product. And our team also goes out and does biodiversity surveys. So they're not just looking at the mosquitoes. One of the things are IPM program requires, that should be being done by everyone as you're looking at the numbers, that should be being done by everyone as you're looking at them. And as much information about that ecosystem to see what's happening with them. And as much information about that ecosystem as you can get. So when they do those kinds of dips with those aquatic nets, they put it into a, an enamel can and if you look at this, the more you look, the more you see. Sam's the Flyal Army and beetles and dogs and all kinds of critters in there. All different sizes, different species in different ages. And then they also do terrestrial, so they're looking at. Fish and frogs and birds. And insects.

[19:00] And, you know, something that's really important just like. We're checking for amphibians, particularly, of bar frogs and salamanders and other tadpoles. That are incredibly at risk right now. And one other things BTI does is it totally disrupts the guts of test. And this is at field concentrations. So one thing we really try to do is avoid treating anywhere, We try not to use it at all on what we're finding is that when we have a lot of file, that the natural predators. Keep the mosquito number as well. And so we have this pretty complicated threshold and decision making process before we even consider treating it. And I think you saw that. Yes. She, you know, instead of using huge amounts, they're treating by hand small. And those are usually little. Like depressions and places to fill up with water that are part of a bigger wetland where they have it there you haven't had a chance for predators to come in and they're the firmware, even before anything can happen there.

[20:12] And this is just, you know, the levels and, the different levels in these really complex, And this is a brand new paper that just came out this year. Join, dropping by 41% with BTI. It's used. So these are real impacts and ecosystems. Now here's the typical way that other jurisdictions are treating. So you're going to think about them going through the slice cycle from egg, now going to the different marble stages, and then becoming a pewter and merging as an adult. Bobby with insecticides. They're using not one of the 2 types of, bacteria. One's called, the, And insect growth regulator that, and interferes with Jupiter, which, They, they use that, to stay in a, stage until they know they're become a pupa and another one's really send interferes with that so they can't become a pupa or an adult.

[21:16] And surface oils. Surface oil suffocate everything, not just mosquitoes, so anything small that comes up to get air is also impacted by that. And you know weekly fogging happened in many places. So here's what happens when you rely on natural controls. You know, instead of having a chemical at every stage here. Or pesticide. When you have a balanced ecosystem, you're gonna have something preying on something else. And that's what we're finding is happening. But the big question kind of the whole thing is, that they argue about all the time is this biodiversity really prevent disease transmission through these systems?

[22:04] And you know, part of it is just, thinking about a logically, but if you have. More than one. Aquatic low marble fly competing with pewts if you have other mosquito species there if you have competing for the same niche. But there's gonna be fewer QUEUEs, you know, to have to become infected. And there's quite a few studies now looking at different aspects of that. But that could be what we're seeing happen. We don't have the data yet. From this last season, the other jurisdictions don't need to have the reports that have come through yet. But something's happening here where we're seeing, you know, much less. Virus and they're adult mosquitoes and other places. So our next steps are, you know, getting our data back and analyzing, what we have in the season, but also really digging in and going back through several years.

[23:08] I'm looking to see and we having more diversity in our, our, sites and the only data that I could see. Now from this year is rather a breeding site with mosquitoes that QUEUE or our non QUEUE or our non, that could be a different group, or both. And what I found is we had almost no signs at that QX only. Alright, thank you, why we had some, you know, so fewer, you know, many fewer adults and also, Okay, I mean, we'll, we'll, we'll analyze our dog trap data to see if we're seeing more diversity in those mosquitoes. It's we can get some data from the reports that the others surrounding jurisdictions. And it'll be really great if we can all work together and compare data and try to figure out what's going on.

[24:05] And it's pretty complex to analyze the biodiversity. Just because we have so much of it. So we'll need to get this to your data, done and constantly checking the monitor to see if there are any relevant studies that might be helpful in this. And then, we, have been consulting off and on with some of the, the ecology researchers. That we need to keep bringing this new data to them and talk to them because. We are seeing pretty striking contrast right now. And then we need to be talking about it. People aren't aware that this is, this is happening and a lot of people are using, you know, barrier treatments in their, where they're spraying exercise every 2 weeks for the whole season. Which is bad for him. You know, the terrestrial insects and their children, but also gets into our waterways.

[25:02] So we need to get people to think about inviting life and insects into their bar and instead of, you know, trying to kill, which isn't too effective. So, that's what I have and if you have any questions, I'm not happy to answer them or have an idea of this today. You know, types of things you think would be interesting for us to ask. And design our program for next year. Thank you so much. Are you open the phone for me? Questions? That's, who collects the data? Are those volunteers or employees from the city? That's our we contract with an aquatic entomology firm. Okay, so the other other jurisdictions are using pest control mosquito company. It's totally different, way of looking at things.

[26:02] So yeah, with those, they're all young women back. And they go out and see the summer. They're out every day of the week. And they, they, they're, experts, some of them, one of them was like, there's only 15 people in country that are certified to identify some aquatic, or something. So they, they can identify the species, the dot dragon. Senior records they're finding. You', that we didn't know we're there and they find new leverage. That's pretty amazing. Like do the collection just bothered or like As you said, like the other ones use the best.

[27:02] So, Where the, you know, other cities collect. The dog mesquite. They have. Not a very good marketing idea. The other the other cities collect, have the adult traps and so they'll have the same data we have. The other, the other cities collect have adult traps and so they'll have the same data we have. And so they'll have the same data. The other, the other cities collect have adult traps and so they'll have the same data we have. You know, they'll have the same data we have. And so they'll have the same data we have. And so they'll have the same data we have. And so they'll have the same data we have. You know, they also, VDC, I also, to, species So that's a light source and then it also has carbon dioxide. So they have dry. I said, in that, because they. Thank you in on our when we bring that carbon dioxide. They also queue on and bunch of other stuff. But, that attracts like all mosquitoes.

[28:03] There's one called a Gravity Trap. We used to have those until few years we stopped having them. And, that's, that's, that's in particular like really. You know, lousy habitat, the more gross organic stuff than at the better they like it, which is why they're doing great. And they're nothing that really. The other product insects can't live in those kinds of environments. But mosquitoes do great. The more we degrade everything and trash it, the better they like it, those species anyway. So. Yeah, so they just hang these traps in these different places. Leave them up for a night and they come back the next day and then they have a pile of mosquitoes that they take back. And they have to separate them all. And when they have huge numbers like thousands they have like a grid system where they you know put them a little piles and then they see a certain group of them because they have to sample and they can't possibly key like 15,000 and these little tiny scales but Yeah.

[29:06] So then can you interpolate the population from the number you trapped? That's what I mean, that's what we try to keep. Track. We, like we put them in places we have a fairly high mosquito population areas or high activity areas. We also put them in other areas just to travel for West Miles, so we have some areas like in closer in the middle of town where we normally don't see any. We have some last year of such a high year. But you're never gonna know exactly how many you have, but what the other jurisdictions do is they use them either to monitor for West or a lot tree for the nuisance mosquitoes that felt carry disease and so when they hit the threshold usually like a hundred, 150 per trap, they spray. That's where they say starts to be uncomfortable for people. And you saw some of those traps for like 4,000.

[30:05] You know, so, Okay. Not sure you're looking at me. Yeah. So couple of questions, I guess. Like. Do you have the separation of like, okay, these are, these are. Popular places and so then like you get 3, and somewhere in the middle of the city you only have 200. Yeah, the other question was. When do you spread your spray every week? Do you wait until your numbers get up higher? And so I'm certain I didn't make that clear. The BTIs. It's a bacteria. It's a bacteria. That they found initially in soil, I think it's where it was discovered.

[31:05] It's not apply quantities of wetlands, so know that we're putting it there and it can. Replicate because it's bacteria. So they put it on things like corncob, you know, they get little, so it's embedded in and then they just spread that and that's how that goes into a wetland areas or what areas with mosquitoes in it. Only for, so sorry I didn't make that clear. The other jurisdictions are the ones using the and VTI with no threshold. They see a mosquito they treat and the scale of larvae. And then they use, and, both regulators in some areas. I don't know how they make those decisions, that, It's, with, when the bacteria has these inclusions that are like crystal and proteins.

[32:04] So when the insect eats it. Those proteins attack their gut and that's. No, it's the, yeah, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, So is that stuff spread every week or is it? Distribute that. So we have about 550 sites that our contractors go to and what they do is they visit a, the majority of them every single week. And they don't treat them unless they. They go through a really complicated threshold to make a decision rather than to treat. Go through a really complicated threshold to make a decision rather than to treat. So they first say, Diff, and they, they will come in your queue. I'm sorry, you're not, cause that's a big decision. They, look how many there are. Cause we have like an average per dip. So they dip the site depending on the size. And then they average it.

[33:10] And once it starts getting like. You know. Look, no, like around 5 or 10. And it's starting to get like pretty, and you're gonna get a pretty decent emergence if something doesn't slow it down a lot of times the sites will just dry up. Before they can finish emerging. They can emerge fast, save through the whole lifecycle of about a week. It's really hot, little over a week. But, and there's what our, what our team does is they chat, they're checking it for biodiversity anyway. So they're looking to see are there, there, how many. So we'll have like an. I'm an estimate. Like, okay, there's like. 5 or 6 species. It's driving fine, are the, there's damn supply, there's some beetles and bugs. They may not treat it all. Even if it has time to see the numbers because they're, you know, and then they'll come back and check it in a few days and see if they've done this.

[34:09] And they almost always go down. We don't treat very often. Especially in these is more a permanent side wetlands. What we, what, where we typically find. Mosquitoes breeding are really gonna get a depression from wheel or something and then that will fill up with water. The wetlands and there's nothing there sometimes you know some predators can't find them friendly quit and get on before they can start chopping on fairly quick and get on before they can start chopping on before they can. You know, they're so good. This team that we have, aquatic, and,'s what they do. They can pretty much gauge whether or not something is. No, whether it's gonna be a problem or not. So we really, we really are very judicious about using it at all. That's why she was out there with her hands, you know. This is taking a backpack which they have, number they can spray it over wide areas. So we're trying not to use it.

[35:06] Because even though it's a natural product, it can, it still is happening, major impacts. So then you're this year you had a large number, you've mentioned that it's been increasing worldwide. And that's what you've been noticing here. Is it? The numbers, has been increasing over the last few years. And what's mosquitoes? I mean, the biology is so complicated. All of them, you know, people think, well, they're There's wetland here, you know, or something, this has water in that they think it's gonna be, Most of the marked when they're out doing they're it's not you know those 500 sides a month and maybe they'll or it's gonna be way more than that. See they're checking on the average like 2 or 300 a week, right? Of those they may treat like 8 or 10.

[36:03] So most of them are breeding or they're not bringing in a level that we would consider treating them. But then they, different, species, the adults fly can fly long distances. So some don't fly very far, maybe a mile or 2 and still come like 25 miles. And they're, you know, they're tiny, they're a little tiny insect. So when it gets hot and dry, they'll die. So they, during the day they hide out, different species like different places. Some like grass, some like trees. And they tend to like to go along. Like creek or ditch corridors if you've ever gone out to you know the South Boulder Creek trails in summer and go next to a South B, be just like mob. So, you know, they, they all have different behaviors, which makes it more complicated to try to manage them and why it makes it hard to try to kill them. Because people are seeing trying to do it. They're not being very successful. I had a problem, you know, inside my house.

[37:04] Lasted for weeks. And I was like, where is it getting? I finally put a screen over my swamp cooler. Thank you. Yeah, that's one of the things, you know, we tell people, check your screens, they, bring your gutters and. Sorry, I have a question. Kind of about maybe what your recommendations would be for these other communities that are obviously having. Much higher numbers than we are. So Talk about the BTI and how it doesn't seem like we have used all that much really comes down to biodiversity. So it would that be your recommendation for these others? There should be explicit efforts in increasing biodiversity. I know that they don't necessarily have the data to make that claim. But if that would be your recommendation, do they have additional considerations they would have to make?

[38:04] That would be different than like the biodiversity that we would have specifically here, given their different geographic locations. No, it's That's the question that I really struggled with because when we were getting these kinds of numbers. Over the summer, there was no interest. And anyone else like, what are you doing? Why is it different? In fact, we're always looked at as kind of like the. Outliers or You're gonna kill everybody because we're not spraying, you know, people. People take this, when you're managing mosquito program, we start seeing indications that there's going to be It's scary because you're worried people are gonna get sick and you want to do everything you can to protect them. And that's what people are doing. You know, they're doing their best to try to protect them. This is let's see, to do. It's what the faculty say to do. It's what the faculty say to do. A lot of these schools say to do, it's what the faculty say to do. It's a lot of these schools.

[39:02] They say spray. Treat with BTI, environmental organizations who don't want people spraying when they talk to size in fogging, so people use VTI. Not thinking about what impact that will have on the ecosystem. So it would be great if we could have these. Really truly open discussions about, okay, what does it show? What should we be doing? One thing, one reason I think. This is just my conjecture, why we have like, and, problems last year is because that we had that terribly rainy year, and all the other places for spring like crazy for weeds. I like that. I'm gonna go search a literature and see if there's any indication that herbicides affect mosquitoes. And you know that they're going to affect aquatic plants, right? And they do, of course. But you know, when you see a study, it's one species in one situation. You know, so you have to try to take from that and try to see what you think might be going on in a certain case.

[40:06] But in one study it showed that herbicides actually helped mosquitoes that improve their populations and another one showed I think this was with malaria that they actually were more likely to become infected with it. All these levels of dynamics when you're dealing with a pathogen on top of everything else. And so it It's hard people like, No, I don't think they have the mechanism. Okay. And lots of things will build back whether they're capable of becoming infected. With a pathogen including West Nile. Cause not all of them do, you know, first of all, depends on how much they come into contact with it. But. You know, it's all really complicated. All the different host develop resistance of certain types like we have. That's one reason and a study that happens done a few years ago. And with the different states.

[41:07] And the drivers for West Nile virus and we were one of them at 10 states and what they said for us this is the climate experts. And epidemiologists, a whole different group of people. That we are become we're becoming, I mean, immune to it because if you're the way West Nile works is if you're even if you do get it. 80% of people never know. So you have no symptoms or asymptomatic and then you're in your become a. We're outside all the time. The world right? Everybody, So a lot of us have already been exposed to it and then we're immune. So that would and then drought another driver and people like why would you think when it's rainy you have more problems. Well, when it's, you end up with the birds or one of the main house coming to the water sources and the main house coming to the water sources and the mosquitoes are there and so.

[42:01] You're more likely to have. Yeah, but the different players who have to come in contact with each other to spread it, do that. So it's. These things are really complicated. And, you know, we're seeing people so concerned about invasive species, you know, that we're seeing more and more herbicides used everywhere all the time. And that could have major impacts on these weapons. Ecosystems. Yeah, so. In, 2020 was a really bad skiing year for everybody, but the numbers we were looking at, we were doing much better. Right? In terms of numbers wise and percentage of Q is that do you have the data to know because we've been You all have been doing this the same way for the last you said, 20 years years. Well, this we had. We've changed our program quite a bit over the last few years. Okay.

[43:00] So we can always keep them still learning, not keep, but, visually, you know, I, I, them from and then we got some push back about treating some nuisance areas. Where this county said, well, spray less and the areas are unincorporated if you treat more. But then we change a whole program a years ago and really cut back on treating everything and it started majoring by university about 3 years ago. So we don't have like really long term data sets and those types of this type of data you need years of day like 5 or 6 to start seeing your patterns. Absolutely. And there's yeah, obviously not pattern here, but have we been sort of consistently doing like better in terms of numbers and percentages, but have we been sort of consistently doing like better in terms of numbers and percentages, but have we been sort of consistently doing like better in terms of numbers and percentages than, have we been sort of consistently doing like better in terms of numbers and percentages than it's writing areas. Do you have sort of surrounding data to know that or We have bad years and we have better years. Okay.

[44:14] Yeah, sorry, please go. Okay, I just wanted to add it. Comment here, and the thing needs a little bit of emphasis too. And, and it has to do with public perception. It's one of the things that I think, was starting to dig in. She's been very, very kind, having overseeing this program for several years. I can say that I've never seen the kind of anger, the community anger. I'm not joking from any other issue than I have seen with mosquito management. And part of it I have to understand. It was really when, West Nile was, was really, probably, it just kind of made its move across the country and in areas in the eastern part of the city where you had a lot of recreational users in the eastern part of the city where you have a lot of recreational users, in the eastern part of the city where you have a lot of recreational users, softball players, for

[45:04] example, neighborhoods close to open space properties where they were wetlands. Never seen large numbers in the mosquitoes. And I think there is a perception that we're not doing. We're not controlling mosquitoes and less for spring. It's a visual. It's a visual thing that you're out there and actually actively killing mosquitoes. And I think it's it's something that we really pushed hard against and we really bumped into a lot. From recreational users and Our own open space department is thinking about how do we actually treat in those areas. We did some pilots over the years, but I bring this up because I want the board to really understand that. I've been really proud of the work that and the program has done over years to really fight against kind of that urge to really fight against kind of that urge to just free everything. And part of the challenge that we run into is that Boulder County does spray and so on those areas of interface where we're treating the BTI and their spraying, you have kind of both happening and what we don't totally know is the impact of the spring.

[46:02] We anecdotally, I think we know what, how the spraying is affecting our own properties or on open space, wetlands as an example because it does make its way in. And so part of the challenges, A, how do you kind of manage public perception and address the concerns that people raise? About health and safety. Simultaneously kind of wanting to move the other direction and really thinking about, our ecosystems much more holistically, thinking about treatments under this guy. So, of Ipm that, is talking about. So I don't really have a question except I just really want the board to understand that that's kind of the dynamic that's in the program. That's not the follow-up question. That what do people voice their concerns? I'll be able to call it by calling on an individual basis. Do they kind of like, like calling on an individual basis? Do they kind of like have neighborhood community meetings? What? What does that look like? Really you can speak to what they do now, but I would say all the above. There were many instances where I would go out to town halls in locations in the eastern part of the city.

[47:06] I will just say that I was threatened more than once. Which I don't think we're pretty crazy. Actually, for the city 14 years ago, he's the manager of the environmental affairs office and He was stuck with the You know, people people were doing is they would use bugs. And they come in with like this big tub and a people we're doing is they would use, they come in with like this big tub and a zappers catch almost no mosquitoes. They're horrible things. They catch all these poor moths and know these wonderful. Insects that we need and lots of totally innocent little guys. But. Yeah, there, there were some rabble rousers in one neighborhood and that neighborhood did have terrible mosquitoes compared to the rest of the city. Now it's not so bad anymore. It's just so bad. You know, how the pattern just keep shifting. But, yeah, those, people who were more, vocal don't live there anymore and I hardly I don't get any angry complaints anymore.

[48:07] Yeah, I shouldn't say that. That's city council. They spend a lot of time going to city council. I'm looking for policy change saying, look, right next door, they're spraying, they're doing something and then you guys are like, you know, throwing cereal in the water, you're not doing anything. So what we're doing is working as well as spraying pesticides or better or worse. That was the conclusion here. Well, I, it's in previous years. We seem to be doing about the same. That's where I would see it. This year we will way better. Like, you know, normally, and especially in the city of Some areas are just time. To see those areas, there's nothing you can do. I mean, if you wanted to like. Use a nuclear bomb and kill everything, you know, that's alive. You probably still have some mosquitoes left. I would think.

[49:06] I'm exaggerating. No, but you just can't get rid of they keep flying in and we have all these flood, your gated field, you know, all around the front range. There, there's no way to get rid of them. And some places are high mosquito activity areas and so I don't fault anybody for, you know, having, on numbers like that. But this year it was just consistent. You know, many places and I saw that in other places, you know, wasn't just in Boulder County that they were high vector index values. It wasn't just in Boulder County that there were eye vector index values of this everywhere. So it was, it was like a really, you know. Scary time, but still, you know, we had that blip of human cases and Thanks. I, there's like, 40 people died this year in the state, something like that. 47 or something like that. And, you know, normally that's way higher than we've had in the, you know, normally that's way higher than we've had in the, you know, the years.

[50:02] But compared to that first year when it came through, you know, where we had a few 100 who died in thousands of cases. We're still doing better. And it's and that's pretty amazing considering how much West because they were they were a lot of infected mosquito except for us here where our traps are anyway. Yeah, so yeah, the vector, the vector born diseases are some of the most emotional and scary things. And there, you know, it's not just the things that are transmitted by. You know, fleas and mosquitoes and ticks and things. But it's the like, you know, the things like COVID, you know, where we start getting biodiversity. And ecosystems becoming disrupted. You start, you know, having people go into places where they ordinarily wouldn't be or animals come into other places and and then these diseases spread.

[51:04] And they call it the dilution effect, you know, where you have. Enough biodiversity, it's harder for a pathogen to find its way. You know enough to get amplified within a population because you just have So many other critters around. We're We're getting to the point now where. If we're not really cautious about making sure that we start really bolstering biodiversity, we're going to see more and more of these types of diseases. And Spring isn't the answer. One thing I wanted to tell you guys is there's a great study that looked at how, how many, Drop puts up in set to side in the air. You have to have to because they use that they call micro droplets. So they, when they spray, they try to get the tiny, they can it will hang in the air. But the mosquito actually has to come. And the odds of that happen is like one, is that quite?

[52:03] 0 0 0 0 like 8 0 7% of those draw that's actually make contact with mosquito and the rest of them go off everywhere else so a lot of it's perception. I saw some studies really sprayed with water and people would report that the reception. I saw some studies where they sprayed with water and people would report that the skin populations were better just because it's. Yeah. Some public. But the city of Boulder is still spraying. I saw them, you know, and I don't know. You know, I didn't know if they do we spray anything, you know. And in the city, you know. Not from the skews. That's fine. Happy to hear that. Yeah, I wish it's gone that spreading water. You mentioned that the top of the presentation, the QUEUE, you mentioned at the top of the presentation that.

[53:00] You mentioned at the top of the presentation that QUEUEs, you mentioned at the top of the presentation that QUEUEs, specifically are becoming, are, you know, able to avoid past control methods and our. Able to sort of endure, you know, that a lot of cast control is just not super effective against them in general. Do you know how much effect? Cause sort of the standard practice mosquito prevention is like 5 different things that target every single space of the environment that they live in. How much of that is just not affecting mosquitoes and increasing the chance of nail virus by restricting the biodiversity. Do you know? We don't know. I mean, that's really complicated. Like I saw one study that this, that QUEUEs would learn to avoid free areas. And they do they're great. The thing about these, insects that can live in really bad conditions. Turn around populations really fast. Is there really really good at developing resistance? The things like dragonflies are really bad at developing resistance, these predator type insects or things like pollinators, they suck at developing resistance.

[54:12] So they just died. You know, and that's, you know, part of the problem, where they starve. Because you can wipe out the, the, the, of the stuff that you also wipe out all the other flies too. And then you have nothing for anybody else to eat. But you also wipe out all the other flies too. And then you have nothing for anybody else to eat. I mean, it was out Is there any things that we can do to promote? Like, like, populations or other predators of mosquitoes that Yeah. In an area of You mean like put like taking and augmenting dragons like populations and putting Yeah, raising them open, people are trying now.

[55:01] Okay, the best thing we could do is fix their habitat. Yeah, they're really great indicators of environmental quality. And they are amazing insects. I don't know if you guys have ever seen, video of the, They have this retractable job that just pops out with them, like, TV things aren't like these, things and then they full it back and then they they can eat things way bigger than them they can eat tadpoles and small fish and yeah and they need a lot of You know, a lot of these aquatic insects are very. Like susceptible to environmental, change, you know, so they're not doing climate change. They're not doing well with, pesticides or Fragmentation of habitat or quality habitat. You know, I was up in Gregory Kenyon with my partner and we actually saw like. 4 or 5 pairs of.

[56:06] Dragon Flies or meeting or something all right up there. First time she never, first thing, we'd ever seen anything like that. But, you know, is there a way to help protect certain environments that would help protect certain environments that would help. Don't use pesticides. Replants, take care of soil and that was just the basics of Like restoration efforts or conservation efforts. I usually show this video one of our, the field team, I feel like colleges. Where she sloshing through in her, her boots and wetlands to go, monitor. And she says, look at all the dragonflies. They're just flying everywhere. Just like, aren't they beautiful?

[57:00] I just love that because they love they're killing themselves in the summer. It's so hot out there. Doing all this work because they care so much about it. And there they want other people to learn. You know, from what we're doing. And then they're just delighted to like let me see if they insects and birds everywhere because then I know that we're doing the right thing. And so they're hoping other people will. I mean, what about educating the city about like? That sort of thing like. Providing ecosystems. Like here is a way that you could have in your. Backyard like a little garden and these are the kinds of things we could plant or here's the kind of environment they would. Help promote. That was species. I've also been getting similar styles of things since I was very young in school.

[58:00] I've also been getting similar styles of things since I was very young in school. I think it's definitely something that is being more prevalent. Recently just like More so than my parents more so than any other. Person 1510, 15 years older than me. Like there's just a much greater consistency and sort of. That style of education. Around you know, breaking in people from outside the school system to talk about ecology and. And biodiversity. That is definitely something that I is. I think a more intrinsic understanding, the younger you are. From the school that is happening at least around here. So there I think they're some pretty serious strides. I think it would be hard to educate the population more than they're being educated right now. At least in a way that they would be receptive to receiving. People are really care what they need to know is that this is This is this is what it is.

[59:08] These living systems. I'm critical. Breaking down. We have to we need to be acting quickly. Yeah, we're kind of a bubble here. You know, it's unfortunate that more people, at least this country are doing more. But around the world, every other country has a. It's agreed every other UN member country is agreed to develop a, national biodiversity strategies. And then the governments below them, the counties, provinces, cities are all supposed to be following that and they have really good targets and. They're solid. So we're having to do that on our own because we don't have one at the federal level. But Boulder is doing it. We're one of the cities doing it anyway. So, I mean, there's lots of stuff for this year we did a little creatures arched.

[60:05] I don't know if any of you went to the library and saw that, that we were trying to get people to think differently about insects. That's all insects, even some that they may not like and they're great. We have some, including Heather's daughter, had a sculpture there. So, you know, those are the types of things we're going to get people to understand. Just constantly how much diversity. So, it's using business size, it's a lot cheaper. Or what's the motivation for? Other municipalities just spray. Oh, this is first of all, it's advice they're getting from the experts at CDC and, and just think about the way our brains work. If you see a problem, you wouldn't fix it. If you see something that you think is.

[61:01] You know, has a potential to give you disease or your child or your aging parent. You're gonna wanna try to take it out and that's where our brains work. It makes sense to us. Doesn't work in the complexity of. Natural systems. So part of it's just trying to do things the easy, efficient way and dominate. You know, we like to try to dominate and use technology, solve everything. Yeah, very effective strategy that's been going on for a very long time. So people think it's okay because they're told it is. And that's a hard one. That's like, in some ways it's as hard as the possible companies, but even harder, I think, because people. Think that they're managing problems like invasive species and if we don't use those tools that you can't do it effectively.

[62:06] So yeah, they're a whole. Areas of study looking at how. How what they call pro pesticide behaviors. Okay, and governments and society in general. It's a thing, so it's real. And then, and then we need to, and then also having things like, concerns about pesticides being tied to things like being anti. Yeah, so there's also that type of. Of strategy going on, so that when people do raise real issues about with real evidence in science or. Attacking scientists who are doing this work. That's another another. So it's corporate propaganda is the long and short.

[63:00] It's very effective. You just publish your data like in journals. Well, we're, yeah, I think we're gonna have to publish this for getting close now. Publishing some of the other work that we're doing. Well, we have one publication and now for another member, the dog color study that Michael asked about last year. Yes, that, that, the, for dogs had tags where they, passive pesticide collectors, they go around and people bought their dogs and they, that papers being, I think been submitted. But we did it again during Kesticides season, cause that was done in November. So it picked up and only picked up stuff like DT. Legacy chemicals for the most part. But this year is in June and so it was during the peak. The pesticide season and that will be published once the get the data that data is gonna be analyzed next month or this month. And then we did a creek study this year too. So that's mainly focused on getting people with rethink using long term calls.

[64:11] Yeah, there quite a few papers published by Cindy. What do you publish? You know, well, that we work with researchers and they have to deal with all that. But. Okay. The next process. Okay, I know, yeah, I don't think we're allowed. To talk about another governments. Process. I didn't hear this. I was just wondering, this will be a good time to, to mention that the county is seeking feedback on. Spring. Yeah. Without being able to speak intelligently about what it is they're doing and having somebody.

[65:08] Do you have a question please? Good. Thank you so much. Ramble on about mosquitoes. Crazy there's some crazy they're all flashy looking and have meeting hands and it's like this one was a Yeah, they're interesting animals and most of them don't bother us. Well, thank you so much. The Toko, like cow. Our flowers, So, get rid of all the.

[66:01] I'm working. Okay. Well, thank you again. Yeah, I can remember another time recently though, has such a long discussion. But everybody was in. So pretty close. Thank you. Alright, well, to the next item, which will be mothers from the, the, And I'm gonna give an update on. The regional collaboration letter. I go from, from the, So, I, for email and then, I said, my initial phone call just to kinda. Understand what. What's your name and 1 s.

[67:14] So. I think there were 2. Often news. First actually let me go back. She, a bunch of municipalities across the region. She only heard from a few. One. Us was one of them, from Denver. For example, so if you wanna try to do a second route and approach them again and see if they, they're interested. But what you discuss is she wants to kinda get the boards together and try to figure out a way to share knowledge like hey you know does board in the city is working on this. Does work in the cities working on this, maybe we should like, you know, maybe we should work on that as well. Maybe we should work on what they're doing. That was one of the things she kinda Addition, second will be

[68:05] Maybe if there are projects that have one voice in particular. Is. Working on. Then I think another board is interesting working as well, maybe do like a joint statement to the city say, Hey, you know, like we believe this is a regional thing that couldn't come in with the better cities. I just But I guess a statement to council, 2 accounts. So, That's about it. Those sort of things. I don't think she had. A very specific idea of what this collaboration would look like. I think you were just gonna test in the water, see if there was interest. Any other initial discussion? Yeah, well, and that's what came up. And, I told her that we'll bring it. Bring what we discuss with the board. To Jonathan and then update on what we thought.

[69:02] Hey, and, I guess they get from there. Just gonna baby steps at this point. I don't know what the collaboration will look like. Or what the agenda or goals will be. Yeah, specific feedback there. This looks like it's really good idea and to the point we were discussing casually before is that adding more voices and support and multiple boards supporting issue I think. Little bit more foundation in in in to. So viewpoints or. Or region calling for action on one thing. If all the cities we should do a thing about this. And you're saying, hey, all of the cities, we should do a thing about this. And, At the same time, I want it to be much overlap with, with the community for climate action. Although there's something logged in the state, right? It's a little different. I don't think that there is much risk of that and we work really closely with Westminster on CC 4, for climate action.

[70:02] One of the things that I would say on that might be a great opportunity. And we've talked a little bit about this with Westminster and a lot of the front range communities is, climate pollution reduction grants. And so this is part of the IRA, the 2020. There are 2 planning grants that were issued in Colorado. One is to the state, to really deploy the actions and the state, to really deploy the actions and strategies in the next round of the greenhouse gas reduction roadmap. To really deploy the actions and strategies in the next round of the greenhouse gas reduction roadmap. And the other is being ministered by Dr. Cogs, reduction roadmap. And the other is being ministered by Dr. Cogg. So Denver Regional, the other is being ministered by Dr. Cogg. So Denver Regional Councils of Government. And the other is being ministered by Dr. Cogg. So Denver Regional Councils of Governments. We are not typically part of kind of the inner core of Dr. Cog. We are part of Dr. I raise this because I think there's a great opportunity to align. Local jurisdictions around the actions that could be taken as part of this large planning branch.

[71:03] And so there is a lot of work going on right now. Being registered by Dr. That team. Westminster is there. Other cities are there kind of passively waiting to see what comes out of it. But ultimately what's going to happen is we were awarded a million dollars for the planning and then we have a grand application due March first of 2024, the lay sales set of regional type strategies. So these are actual tactics. These are things that we could start thinking about. I think to your point, what are the things that we should be doing collaboratively? What would that actually look like, whether it's regional transportation initiatives, whether it's something in terms of land use, is it masking? I don't know what it is, but there are a lot of sessions that we're part of right now to kind of come together. And I think there's a great way to engage boards in that conversation too. So it's not the staff teams, but, how are we thinking about a collective action that we could actually all kind of come together, put this in and there's a significant amount of funds that are going to be flowing for this work.

[72:00] And 2024. So I just wanted to tag that as another potential outcome that we can kind of. Think about maybe this connection that you've made now. Okay. So we'll be good. An actual next item to do here with about this celebration like I could. Go back and say, we're interested, but there's any, would it be a, SIL, do we have an enchanted a lot of things to discuss or not yet you think like. I would say probably let her take the lead on it and but that's certainly up to you all. Sounds like she's got some work to do to build a little bit of critical mouse and. A little bit of critical. Mouse. And, the, the, the, the, the, to build a little bit of critical masks. And, you know, maybe, if you write to them, but again, and say like, well, there was interest and maybe it will be more amenable to participating? Well, yeah, I was gonna, if we as, if, you know, if we, as sort of, the Boulder, reach out in the same aspect to other, to reach out in the same aspect to other environmental advisory boards. To show that it's not just Westminster. We work together. I've heard but, They're grouped.

[73:12] I didn't like any of like the joint statement. So, you know, like pushing for some regional, So, yeah, I'll get the conductor back and say, we're, Let me see where it goes on if she can set up an agenda or something. Yeah. But I think what it resonated the most was the getting more regional support, right? Alright, so, I'll do that. And are you the same? Let's give up. You guys have any questions about it? They should do a process question. So Okay, I really enjoy all the presentations. Like I'm learning so much. But when, like, if we did have an issue, we wanted to work together on a push forward, like, how does that happen? Like, do we put it? Other agenda like his. Because it's just don't ask this question.

[74:10] Never done it before to be honest with you. If this is something new, it's new territory. You think about the function of the board as an advisory group to city council i think there's a really interesting thing about you know multiple boards and in frankly i don't know the makeup of the boards that are part of this. This kind of, confab right now if they're all similar in terms of how they said how they are administered or they are the advisory to staff. And I don't necessarily matters. But I think there's real power and maybe this is kind of what you're getting at. But I think there's real power and maybe this is kind of what you're getting at, certain power and kind of the solidarity of a voice. To say, here's what we need to be doing. So how do you how do you wield that power? Is it that one jurisdiction is having one particular issue? So you're calling your friends and you have kind of critical mass saying you need to move on this is it petitioning mistake to do something different is that a funding opportunity so I think it's yet to be determined it could be all of those things.

[75:03] I just think it's a really cool idea to maybe breathe a little power into the advisory boards in the front range that probably has not been And I know what you're asking about this, collaboration with just us. Transportation or So you're parking family. I don't when we talk about that as a board. Oh, you know, I, close to mine, which we brought in every mammal since. That's why I ask. They're running every member to council since. 19. I think I'd bring it that eventually turned to go bolder. But that was kind of like a unique thing of seeing it by 3 years members so I don't do them to me. People just wanna make sure I understand the question. Like, push the city on 24 7 renewable.

[76:02] Just that's an example. Sure. Like when would we as a group. Talk about things we care about. And then present them. To you. Yeah, it's a good question and I know it sound like a broken record in terms of who you advise, but it's not just that you advise council obviously staff, we listen to what you have to say, no question. And it's why we bring a lot of the kind of staff level things to you because we want you to know about we're not ready to have you like take a position on what Rilla presented, right? We wanted to start building your literacy on these issues. That way when we do, you have some of that level set. The way I would normally answer the question is the board has, an opportunity once a year, to write a letter and that letter goes to city council and says, hey, council, here are our priorities that we believe you as the policymakers for the city need to be focused on this year.

[77:01] I will say that that's pretty high level. Council looks at letters from all of their boards. And I will, and I don't think that it's that they don't care about your input at all. It's rather, how does this fit in across the spectrum of the advice we're getting from all of our groups. Now, one thing I kind of wanted to. Maybe bring up now next week. They're gonna be 2 topics that are discussed, that city council is discussing one is the energy code. The other is their core down on the survey and work that consultants spend doing onboards and commissions and evaluation of our existing boards and commission structure. And I think part of what they're getting at is, how do, how do boards do exactly what you're describing. If you want to weigh in on something that's happening in transportation, for example, that kind of sits under the per view of TAB, but clearly you have a strong interest in it.

[78:00] Where does that show up? How does that happen? Well, what we've been trying to do, I'll be honest with you, this is this is a little bit new territory and that's why I go through the agenda to say let's do a fork, see the things that are coming to City Council. I still don't think that that's it because frankly those are things that are already scheduled. I think we're not far enough out. To identify what are the critical things that are going to be coming in 2024. So let's make sure that well before they're like in that crank this crunch 7 of like a month writing a memo trying to get it out the door. And do a presentation for council that they are really coming and doing the circuit with boards to take meaningful input. So one of the ways that that is gonna happen, this is gonna be a trial, it's gonna be something a little different in 2024. We've actually started work planning as a city. So all the departments are laying out what are the key work plan items that we know are going to be building a council this year, and identifying boards and commissions.

[79:01] So really starting to say, what are the big big transformative things? One of the big things the council is going to be talking about and then and just say wow we really need to make sure that we're going to these this one these 2 these 17 boards and connections. I have the opportunity to look at that and say, you know, you gotta make sure that it's on there too. I feel that that's gonna go a long way, it's on there too. I feel that that's gonna go a long way, frankly. It's a little bit of that, setting up the process early.