October 12, 2023 — City Council Study Session

Transcript

Captions from City of Boulder YouTube recording.

[12:57] oh wow get to it now thought you never

[13:01] asked JY was trying to slide that one past there well since uh since our Buffs are playing Stanford tomorrow night I thought I'd go with a topical one what the Buffalo say to his son when he dropped him off at school hi son since he got that one see we got this one uh what's the name of my cheese not your cheese that's really good really funny thank you all right well it's six o'clock are we ready to roll right here well how about now can you hear me better yes a awesome well good evening and welcome to tonight I think now I'm ready to go go

[14:00] good evening and welcome to tonight's study session of the Boulder City Council I'm council member juny Joseph and thank you for joining us we have on tonight's agenda three item our first item will be a shiaka access management plan Camp update or second item is the process update on the implementation of the East Boulder subcommittee plan zoning recommendations and our third item is a count discussion on supporting Boulder County ballot measure 1A open space sales and used tax extension and revenue change before we go into our work items I would like to outline how the meeting will be conducted we will review staff recommendations for each of the items and then we will have a time for questions at the end of the presentation we will conduct or Council discussion with staff if you have questions please

[15:02] wait for staff to com to complete their presentation and before we go into further discussions of the three items tonight I will pass the floor to our council member Tara Wier who would like to share a few words with the community sah you have the virtual floor good evening city council and Community though I'm a boulder though a Boulder City Council member for the next few minutes I'll be speaking in my individual capacity tonight my heart is heavy as are so many of yours I am heartbroken by the tragic events that have taken place this past Saturday Shabbat which was also the holiday ofat Torah many Jewish people in Boulder know people or know people who know people who were either killed or kidnapped friends relatives friends of friends I'm one of of the founding members of Boulder ranan sister

[16:01] city ratv is the community located in southern Israel southeast of the kutes or kabut where so many Israelis as well as Americans Tha Nationals and others were slaughtered by Hamas terrorists in their homes in their beds and in their cribs women raped infants Toddlers and grandparents taken captive ran hanb is now receiving refug from those Kaba and others and providing food shelter and love Aaron bracket Bob Yates and I have all been to this region during our sis uh visiting our sister city in the past few years we know people there and they know us mayor Aran Deron Jared white and others have visited here hiked the flat irons and shared meals with us on Pearl Street mayeron and all of Mata I think about you day and night my heart is with you you I'm also one of the founding members

[17:01] of sip sustainable Israeli Palestinian projects sip Works to build and support sustainable projects between Israelis and Palestinians these projects help the communities address critical environmental and Social Challenges and Foster relationships between and among Israelis and Palestinians I have visited Israel many times as well as the West Bank as a sip board member and sip has many close friends in the region including Israelis Palestinians bins Drews and others sip is dedicated to peace and through my involvement with sth I've been dedicated to Peace So I end with sister City's sister Ci's International's mission to promote peace through mutual respect understanding and cooperation one individual one community at a time may we see peace in the Middle East In Our Lifetime thank you thank you Tara for those uh

[18:02] thoughtful words and messages are there anyone else who would like to add council members would like to add anything else I see nothing else well um thank you again we will now turn yeah Aaron aarin had his hand up I'm sorry Aaron you are here I got you thank you ter I wanted to thank you for that and just uh make a note that I did send an email on Saturday afternoon to to Mayor Aron dur the mayor of ront H expressing my my personal support and the support of our city for our sister city uh friends and relatives in Israel thank you thank you Aaron I don't see any other hands at this time great now we will now turn to our CD manager naria vinder mind to introduce or first item thank you so much C member I am luckily not going to inflict my voice

[19:02] upon you for too long but I'll say that the next item is one of those great examples of the increasing cross departmental work we are doing um we are going to throw this to uh the director of community Vitality Chris Jones first but you'll note that Natalie Stiffler and Dan Burke directors of transportation and Mobility open space and Mountain parks are here with us and with that I will send it to Chris and shut up thank you so much Nia not for shutting up but for that lovely introduction I'm Chris Jones the director of the community Vitality Department very glad to be here this evening to help introduce this item but as you can probably tell by the number of faces that are showing up on your screens Camp was developed through a collaborative effort between multiple City departments and organizations to manage parking to manage the TAA Park and spill over impacts into the the adjacent residential neighborhoods while

[20:00] expanding Mobility options for all residents employees and visitors wanting to get to the area to accomplish this the city began charging for parking at the park established an MPP and on Pate street parking uh in the north shiaka neighborhood constructed and improved sidewalks enhanced Ada accessibility and offered a free shuttle from remote parking lots in partnership with VM Mobility CU and BV St since 2017 the camp shuttle has or the Camp season uh has run Saturdays Sundays and holidays between the Memorial Day and Labor Day weekends now I'll hand it over to Dan Burke who has a few words to say about how the program has been working great thank you Chris uh Dan Burke director of open space and Mountain parks and uh good evening uh Council I think uh we all know that one of the main features and destination of the shiaka park is the main trail

[21:01] head which provide uh that osmp manages that provides uh Trail access onto into the shiaka meadow and Beyond as well as the ranger Cottage during the Camp season uh the program has shown to be effective in managing demand and provides a viable option in the form of free shuttle service for those who prefer not to pay to park since the program was implemented more than 100,000 rides have been provided by the park to sh parkto Park Shuttle and revenue from parking exceeds the costs of operating this shuttle service however on the shoulders of the Camp season spring and fall mainly when Park visitation is still high parking demand continues to impact the park and the neighborhood to the north while staff has received feedback from some shiaka employers employees Park visitors and residents to the north that are generally supportive of expanding the Camp season the current park to park and

[22:02] ride model aka the free shuttle service is not easily expanded because of the ability to use the CU and the Boulder Valley School District Lots therefore at the current time it is staff's recommendation that the camp program continues during its traditional summer season but with some plan changes and other potential modifications to the program staff also WR recommends that a feasibility study be conducted to look at options beyond the current Park and Ride model and provide direct Transit ACC access to the park to service visitors and employees and reduce parking demand at the park and spill over into the adjacent neighborhood and now I'm going to turn things over to Natalie Stiffler to introduce our sta presentation thank you Dan and good evening Council Natalie stippler director of Transportation Mobility um

[23:00] so camp and this evaluation has been obviously been a multi-departmental effort between Transportation Mobility Community vitality and open space and Mountain parks for many years and the recommendation that you'll hear tonight is supported by all three directors and staff of each of our departments and now I'd like to hand it over to Chris Haggin who led the interdisciplinary staff team that evaluated the camp program he will walk you through the evaluation finding and staff recommendations thank you Natalie uh before I start with the presentation I would like to introduce the rest of the core project management team for the camp evaluation uh although I managed it I would not have been able to do it without the support of these individuals including Sam Bromberg from Community Vitality Francis baling from open space and Mountain parks and Devon jlin our principal traffic engineer and transportation Mobility so they are

[24:00] joining here uh me here tonight and are available for any questions in their areas of expertise uh just to kind of take one step backwards you know Camp is just one of many projects that's under our amps umbrella or our access management and parking strategies and amps like uh Chris Jones uh mentioned has always been a multi-departmental effort within the city uh to look at how can we best provide multimodal access and also manage demand at some of our key areas of the city and there's been many projects over the time with Camp being one of them and they were all Guided by the boulder uh Valley comprehensive plan our transportation master plan and climate action plan as well so I just want to give a little context for how Camp fits within our work plan Camp was initiated in 2017 and as was mentioned in the introduction it was really about managing demand at the park

[25:01] which is one of our most visited uh areas of the city and also the spillover that occurs into the neighborhood to the north which we refer to as North Chaka uh following a successful pilot uh an ordinance was put in place to run the program until this year that ordinance will sunset at the end of the year and so staff is conducting has conducted this evaluation to present a recommendation to City Council on the future of the program uh the purpose of the evaluation is really to look at camp and how it did compared to those original goals of managing parking demand and providing multimodal access uh staff developed these recommendations Based on data analysis and a lot of stakeholder input there are beyond the multi-departmental effort this was a multi-stakeholder effort uh after uh given any Council directions we will do a necessary change

[26:02] to the ordinance uh to keep the camp going if that is the desire and then staff will get to work on uh based on your direction what does the 2024 season look like we also feel that this evaluation has really helped set in motion just a whole future of how the city uh deals with Trail access management uh we know our partners at Boulder County have entered into a number of different shuttle operations to help provide multimodal access to their their open space lands uh and reduce those uh the issues around parking demand uh just to reiterate the camp elements that were kind of spelled out this program again takes place on the weekends and holidays between Memorial Day and Labor Day uh we managed uh created manage and paid parking at shiaka and also within the neighborhood parking permanent program to North Chaka

[27:01] and also just to um clarify on Street uh paid parking on Baseline as well um for those who do not wish to pay to park we offered a free shuttle we call that the parkto Park Shuttle uh that uh operated out of the New Vista lot there at Baseline and Broadway and at cu's Regent lot um we also had an amazing partnership with visit Boulder uh that provided an ambassador program uh the ambassadors were on the ground uh to help with visitors in navigating parking and also the shuttle uh and then provided great information about borderer as well I'm sure uh we also worked with the employers you know we've got the shiaka association we've got the dining hall the music festival our own ranger station there and so we worked with developing a transportation demand Management program for those employers and employes employees as I mentioned a number of key

[28:01] stakeholders the Colorado shitaka Association visit Boulder via Mobility who operates the shuttle uh the remote Lots from CU and bbsd and of course the park visitors the neighborhoods and all the employees overall what we've seen over the years is that visits at the at the trail at shiaka and this is uh counts at the trail have remained relatively stable throughout the years we of course saw some dips during coid uh but visitation is coming back uh for the most part what we call the Camp season again that um Memorial Day to Labor Day uh span um the shuttle does operate and our paid parking programes is in effect at the busiest times uh of the year for shiaka uh but there are still months on those shoulders of the seasons where we do experience erence uh visitation of over a thousand visitors a day at the

[29:01] park um today the majority of visitors are Boulder residents but we do receive a lot of residents from out of state and out of the country uh and today still the majority of uh visitors do arrive by vehicle uh as we mentioned in the int intro the park to park shuttle has provided over 100,000 rides we did see a significant decrease in shuttle ridership during coid uh but it is beginning to rebound uh and according to our uh Transit program manager Danny oconor uh the trends in the rebound uh after the low points of Co generally follow what we're seeing in transit in general uh across the city in terms of uh a low point of Transit and now a steady increase in transit use but still uh below pre Co coid levels uh overall the shuttle operation costs hav increased uh by 22% but because uh CU

[30:01] and bbsd has charged us a little less uh the overall increase in operations uh for the parkto Park Shuttle has only increased by 7% uh since the pilot in terms of our parking management uh parking at the park and along Baseline in the neighborhood on the roads uh in that MPP parking is $2.50 per hour uh today most of the parking is paid through Park Mobile which is our online uh parking app uh in the past it was primarily at the stations but I think over time more and more people have been getting used to using Park Mobile uh we generally see the ranger lot parking lot Baseline almost completely full during the Camp season uh but we have uh the the paid parking uh as a tool has managed demand in other parts of the area such as the chiaka green or the M Clint Lots which experience less parking utilization so we're confident that when visitors

[31:01] arrive there is parking available for those who want to pay so the the the pricing of parking is working uh typically people stay between two and three hours um and the parking Revenue has uh increased over time and today we receive almost $1 17,000,000 in parking Revenue that does not include citation Revenue that kind of goes to a different bucket uh on average we do uh enforce the the area and have about 2700 citations uh in the past full year uh with the average citation being about $30 in the north Shaka MPP uh parking permits are sold to residents on the blocks uh indicated in the in the uh in the picture there um it's $10 for your parking permit uh they can have up to two per resident and then we also in 2022 at the request of those residents

[32:02] also uh allowed them to purchase visitor permits for $5 a piece that could be used by by folks that are visiting them during the Camp season uh the number of Resident permits has remained relatively stable and and we have seen um you know a slight decrease in the number of visitor permits after uh starting to charge for them in general parking utilization in the MPP during the Camp season uh the the pricing of parking is working to manage demand we still have some high areas along Baseline and a on a couple of streets like Grant which is right across from the park but in general the pricing of on street parking in the neighborhood is reducing that demand and increasing the livability for those residents um on the shoulders of the Camp season when you still have high visitation to the park that is where we have are having problems with in the spillover and some of the livability

[33:01] issues uh that come with that spillover parking into the neighborhood uh for the employers at chiaka we developed a TDM program that provided a number of different benefits uh employers did provide parking passes uh they do not have enough parking spaces for all the employees that are there on any given weekend during the Camp season but they also have provided parking Cash Out benefits so essentially providing a financial incentive for those not to drive alone uh and use one of the parking permits uh car pooling has been the number one option for those employees to team up and use one of the parking passes uh but they have also provided telework options and improved their long-term bicycle storage uh as well uh in talking to those employers and U you know all of them from the dining hall to the Colorado ch Aqua Association the Colorado Music Festival

[34:00] all believe that camp should be continued uh it is effective in managing demand uh Pro providing parking spaces for those that do want to come in there but also providing that multimodal option uh most of the employers and the employees would like to see the Camp season increase you know past uh what it is now uh but as we know from the intro it is difficult in under the current Park and Ride model and so what they really desire is that direct Transit access to shiaka uh how can we provide that uh they also mentioned that they would like some more opportunities for parking permits and so we are considering can we provide commuter permits in the MPP like we do around the downtown area and other places where we manage District where we can sell some permits for those uh most of the employees who work at shiaka do not live in Boulder which is the case for many of our employers and many of them are traveling longer distances every year to

[35:00] get to those jobs so that would help they would also like to see improved micromobility options with B cycle in line uh and monitoring of that parking as well uh as I mentioned about less than half of the employees that work at chiaka or Boulder residence um most of them do drive or carpool now aay although some can use other modes of transportation um but still quarter of them Park in the surrounding neighborhood but outside of the MPP so you know walking several blocks uh to get to their job um we also uh worked with the neighborhood uh to the north our North chako neighborhood which has the neighborhood parking permit and provided a questionnaire for them uh of the respondents we got about 40% of the households to respond to that survey um most of them find that yes it is easier to park and livability issues uh

[36:00] decrease those negative livability issues decrease during the Camp season it's more easy than find parking less times their driveways are blocked and so overall during the Camp season uh it's been effective uh in improving that neighborhood it's really on the shoulders of the Camp season you know when uh visitation is still high that those problems come back when parking isn't managed so the vast majority of of course would love to see this program continue uh and they would like to see some improvements to it uh many of them want to see that and that uh Camp season expanded uh they would also like to see electric buses used as well uh and when asked if they would be willing to pay more about half of the responded said yes they'd be willing to pay more for their neighborhood parking permit if the city were to expand uh that Camp season and manage parking uh more times of the year uh we also provided a general

[37:02] public questionnaire this questionnaire was available on beur Boulder it was also available throughout the park uh using QR codes and on the shuttles and our visit Boulder uh ambassadors also uh encouraged people to take the survey we didn't have a huge um response we had uh just under 300 uh responses but again this is a questionnaire not statistically valid uh but it does kind of give you an idea of which way the wind is blowing um respondents uh of the questionnaire were mostly residents of either the city of County and frequent shiaka very often uh they typically come driving now again because this questionnaire was on the shuttle we do see a higher use of the shuttle rates uh and the Hop to Shaka as well where they were able to get access to the questionnaire um those who do Drive Drive generally park at shiaka or in the neighborhood but a significant number

[38:01] still try and find free parking uh in the surrounding neighborhood outside of the mppp um what was really interesting is about two-thirds of the respondents said that they really haven't changed their frequency of visitation to shiaka after we instituted paid parking uh but a third did say that you know because of pay Parkin they do visit less when asked why people visit less uh and it wasn't necessarily the pain for parking it was usually ideas around it's being too too crowded or just the difficulty in finding parking not necessarily the charging of parking um we did have uh a lot of respondents who Ed the shuttle uh and they frequently rated the shuttle very high in terms of its its use and Effectiveness and providing a viable multimodal option uh the vast majority of uh respondents to our general public questionnaire uh do want to see Camp continued they love the idea of

[39:01] providing more direct access uh to shiaka so you don't have to drive and park and then take the shuttle but if you could take transit the whole way um they uh most would like to see that multimodal opportunity uh expanded and generally in kind of that April to October time frame also the use of EX U electric shuttles and also expanding the survey per potentially to Friday or when there is a major event at chiwa we also worked with our racial Equity team uh to try and reach out to to different groups within our community working with uh Latino Outdoors uh attending the festival Del Soul uh and so we did have some uh people who identified not as white uh take our surveys as well uh in general uh those nonwhite uh visitors are boter residents they visit chagua two to five times a

[40:00] year typically they arrive uh by car and in groups and I think that that was one thing and talking to some members of this community is that they use shiaka in a different way not in the traditional let's go for a hike but let's have a family outing or or a group outing at the park so typically needing to arrive by car because they're bringing stuff with them um those generally they do pay a park at shiaka or in the neighborhood although some did say they use the parkto Park Shuttle uh again in this case you know the reason for any decreases in frequency of visitation was more related to crowds and the difficulty in finding parking and not necessarily having to pay for parking uh the desire amongst uh these people certainly um to continue Camp is very high again direct Transit access so you don't have to uh do both uh although some said they would continue to drive

[41:00] because that that's you know how they access it uh again there was a uh s similar theme of expanding Camp uh from April to October and also uh providing these micr Mobility options such as B cycle in line so you know through all of that data Gathering and stakeholder input uh you know staff uh created three different scenarios for council's consideration you know one really is to discontinue camp but no one wants to do that so really the staff recommendation is to continue camp we have a number of anticipated or planned changes that we would like to uh implement but then there are also some additional possible modifications that we would love to get your input on and we also received input uh from our transportation Advisory Board and from open space and Mountain parks some of those anticipated or plann changes that if we're directed to con

[42:02] continue camp that will probably you know we're just we think our our great additions are around micromobility is one so we are looking at how do we provide lime scooter access and also dedicated uh parking area AKA or lime Groves uh to organize parking at the park um a lot of uh especially the employees are very excited about having a lime option we have also looking at putting in a permanent B cycle station at shiaka this has already been approved by the landmarks board we have an area next to the dining hall where we can fit a nice large B cycle station uh we will likely make uh changes to the hop to shiaka routing you know you think about when the CU Hotel and Convention Center comes online how that will be you know a nice uh origin that we would like to hit for this sh Aqua destination we are going to also update parking signage we

[43:00] have heard uh again through our visit Boulder ambassadors and also our parking uh enforcement officers that we need to clarify parking signage and so that is something we're we're going to work on one of the issues that we're going to have also have to tackle in the 2024 Camp season is uh with uh construction at New Vista High School so we are going to have to Pivot with that as well now some of the other possible modifications which I think all all the staff feel are viable uh and could we could do uh but there has been some mixed uh reactions from some of our stakeholders and Boards about some of these other possible modifications uh the first one is the implementation of performance-based pricing so Council in 20121 adopted our performance-based pricing policies this basically says that that if you have a block that has over 85% parking

[44:01] utilization uh across a certain time frame then you are able to raise that parking price by 50 Cents to help continue manage that demand um so that is a policy that we could introduce into this area to again uh parking pricing has been effective in managing demand you know should we also use this performance-based pricing policy uh in that area as well uh another thing and I've mentioned it is the establishment of a commuter a commuter permit program for employees again there are not enough employee parking spaces uh many of these employees live outside of town and and the car really is a uh one of their only viable options to get there so uh can we establish a commuter permit parking program for those employees we estimate that cost would be around $50 for the camp season for an employee to purchase one of these although it may not be

[45:01] necessarily purchased by employees it could be part of an employer provided program um another thing uh that we're considering and would like your input on is the use of some of the parking Revenue to fund additional TDM benefits for those employees and so when you look at our operational cost compared to what we're collecting in parking Revenue there is that Delta I believe it was around $40,000 per year and so is there a possibility to invest some of this parking Revenue to provide additional uh benefits for those employees or even you know for for others as well but for those employees uh we've always wanted to establish some van pooling and can we provide some Financial incentives uh for Van pooling uh could it be used to cover uh commuter parking permit cost uh could it be uh used to provide B cycle memberships once we establish Lish that permanent station there uh so those are some of the uh potential things that we

[46:01] could easily add into the 2024 campaign or Camp season as was mentioned at the beginning um staff is also uh requesting you know uh council's input and and support on uh future exploration and essentially a feasibility study um as we've mentioned under the current Park and Ride model uh which using the parkto Park shuttle from remote Lots you know that is really the multimodel option for those who do not wish to pay uh to part but there are limit Li uh limiting factors you know mainly using the Lots at CU and bbsd and so could we embark on a feasibility study of how can we provide direct Transit access that works with our whole Transit Network or perhaps a microtransit system to provide that direct access to shiaka for more of our

[47:00] residents and visitors uh there is also a signific potential for to coordinate with Boer County that also operates additional Trail shuttles and this could be done under our Trail access management program which is another part you know one of the other cogs of the amps program um this would moving beyond that Park and Ride model would enable us to expand that Camp season and address some of those spillover demand issues uh into shiaka and the parking demand issues uh in the neighborhood uh to the north as well uh we would want to do a a financial analysis to really see uh the cost of providing microtransit or some type of direct Transit access to shiaka uh but it looks like our our parking revenue and and uh possibly citation Revenue uh could be used to to cover those costs uh we are also looking at some needs of maybe managing some parking demand up on Flag Staff as well

[48:01] so that could be an an extension of this type of program and um open space and Mountain Parks uh really wanted us to as part of this feasibility study and the expansion idea and the idea of providing direct Transit access it provides us an opportunity to collect uh further data and Analysis and work with groups for the uh racial Equity uh components of the program uh we did uh take these uh recommendations to our boards and uh the two boards uh the transportation Advisory Board and our open space Board of Trustees uh tab did not make a formal motion uh but they are in favor of continuing camp with those anticipated changes and possible modifications that did not rule out any of those possible modifications uh that I just explained and tab is in support of conducting a feasibility study to see how we can

[49:00] provide that direct Transit access to shiaka and provide that ongoing multimodal access while managing demand open space bard of Trustees passed a formal motion that motion was contained in your study session packet uh in General open space Board of Trustees was supportive of continuing camp but not all the elements that you know tab supported uh they were not in favor of the performance-based pricing component of that and they did have uh concerns around the safety around micromobility a lot around the hill at Baseline I would say um they do support uh further exploration and the and the feasibility study of looking and how we can create this more comprehensive trail head access management plan uh but they do feel that you know for that feasibility study more data is needed to support the expansion of the Camp season uh and they as I mentioned in the previous uh slides that they were really interested into a

[50:02] deeper dive into the racial Equity components and our under represented groups uh and how an expanded Camp season uh could benefit uh those those groups uh just to provide a little timeline you know we're here at the study session if uh staff is directed to continue Camp then we will have to do an ordinance update it's a fairly straightforward ordinance update we could simply remove the date uh of uh within the shiaka ordinance that has its Sunset now um and that would be done kind of in the November December time period uh following that uh staff would work on developing the camp program for the 2024 season and then depending on you know of uh funding availability uh and other work program items we could also look at initia that feasibility study if directed uh and supported by Council uh in that 2024

[51:01] and then of course probably into the 2025 uh season to see if we can provide this more holistic uh trail head access uh program Beyond Camp's current Park and Ride model and with that we have our questions for Council uh in regard to council's feedback on staff's recommendation to continue camp with those anticipated changes uh we'd love to hear feedback on those possible modifications and then also uh any feedback or Direction on staff's recommendation to explore the feasibility of providing that direct Transit access and that concludes the presentation thank you awesome thank you so much uh can you please take down the slides and does council have any questions I see Tara you first and then Rachel and then

[52:03] aarin the first question is discontinuing the camp continue changes or further exploration so you welcome to ask questions or yeah before that before I answer those questions I have a few other questions for whoever in uh of the staff wants to answer um why do you think I remember being on Camp how many times I've told everybody in those speeches don't laugh uh I don't know five years ago or so and one of the things that stuck out in this presentation was the fact that our ridership is decreasing over time do you think it's only because of coid or could it be there's not enough advertising less interest uh I think one of the things that I was thinking about is do we have enough advertising no and I think it's a it's a it's a fair question because we we certainly even before coid we were seeing some dips in ridership uh from

[53:00] the first year which I think perhaps the excitement around the program and and we did do a lot of uh marketing of that program early on so I think certainly awareness uh could be a key and and maybe that we need to um kind of revitalize that and work with visit Boulder to uh expand awareness uh but Co certainly had the big impact and as I mentioned we are seeing the rebound but uh you know we certainly would like to see more ridership so that that's a great idea about expanding marketing opportunities well way back when Maryann Mahoney remember her somebody people and um I were talking about how to make it more exciting to take those so for instance was that Banjo Billy we used to have was that the the bus what was it yeah that was The Bu having a really exciting face to the um van not just via right maybe a big magnet but just maybe having some grand

[54:00] openings or something to just grab awareness and make it more of let's do something fun today and ride you know that's what we talked about five years ago so I wouldn't mind having you know some really creative ideas so we can really see it go that's my first question my second question is H I think it's a great idea to extend it to um Flagstaff because often there's not parking by the uh trail head up there where um the rangey trail is that particular one but what have you ever talked about South Boulder there are a few trails near Shanahan Ridge we've talked about this as a council before it's a it's a trail head but it's there's not parking and there's not bike uh bike easy bike parking and so I was wondering if you think that a when you talk about a parkto Park Shuttle are you talking about that or is that completely off the table for anytime in the future like cenitas and all the major uh spots

[55:04] yeah so I think you know some of our ideas around this feasibility study and and and coordinating and learning from how Boulder County has provided like their hessi shuttle and their ELO shuttle is you know could we provide through microtransit you know smaller vehicles but could we provide a shuttle system that touches many of our different uh trail head certainly shiaka is our most visited and has you know historically had these larger parking problems but cenitas is you know certainly another one and also as you mentioned Shanahan Ridge so I do know that we have been doing some uh early data collection on that uh Samantha would you like to uh chime in on kind of what what we're doing in that area that specific area sure right now we're we're just doing that uh collecting additional data and monitoring those areas and then next year once we have some of the recommendations from Council today we'll

[56:01] kind of see how that fits in with the broader um plan for camp and Trail access management Samantha um you know I went up to you're laughing I went up to H Shanahan Ridge I think to campaign or something and this is what I noticed everybody who I said are you from here every single person said no they were from Denver they were from different cities so I said well why do you come to Shanahan dke and they said because we don't have to pay for parking it's easy to park on the street you know stuff like that and so I know we've gotten every single person not just one or two and I talked to a lot of people so that got me thinking that when we do talk about it again maybe it should be an option because if we're kicking remember how the people said they don't go to shiaka anymore well they probably go to Shanahan Rich I'm just saying so the a lot of the remember when people on Council a lot of the people got upset who lived around there I think it would be valid at this point to find out some more information and data about what is

[57:00] really going on up there and if we can alleviate some of that we had so much success really with alleviating neighborhood concerns from upper shiaka back five years ago so I wonder if we couldn't think of something creative as well so I'm just throwing that out there that's it for me thank you thank you next we have Rachel okay um thanks for the presentation I do have a couple of question questions um first one is in the uh polling that you did or the community outreach and and you gave us some statistics on you know people's level of support how many people was that how many people were surveyed so we I think we had um just under 400 responses to the general public survey or I should say questionnaire it is not a statistically valid survey As We Know okay and did that so that did not include the employers and such that no that that was all we did a separate one

[58:02] for the NPP residents we did one for the general public um that was on the shuttles and at Chaka and handed out by our visit voter ambassadors and then I did separate uh debriefs and workshops with the employers and then we did a um a survey of the employees as well so there were multiple different ones all available in English and Spanish okay and and Allin how many people got surveyed Allin um well there could have been you know could have been some duplicates uh for that's okay I mean over 600 over over 600 we got about 40% of the residents of the NPP we got almost half of the employ employees of the shiaka society and the dining hall uh we did only get 20 from the Colorado Music

[59:00] Festival but you know those musicians you know more kind of come and go uh and so we didn't have as good of a response rate uh for them okay thanks um this might kind of sound silly but did you all consider dogs at all like that's one of the things that I like at Cha I take my dogs and they don't do well on the shuttle and I wouldn't be able to get them there like on a lime scooter so what what was the conversation around dogs uh so the the only thing I heard about dogs uh is in the open comments on the general public questionnaire that people appreciated the opportunity to bring their dog on the shuttle so that they don't I won't get into gory details of my dogs uh who who get a little stressed out in those sorts of environments and and cleanup efforts that you all may have been left with but um I appreciate that that some dogs are are working out well there um okay and then we did not ask Community connectors

[60:00] right we did ask um different groups but just well I worked with the community connectors um so they were part of the racial Equity team at the city when we did uh debriefs and interviews and then they helped me you know get in touch with groups like uh Latino outdoors also recommended the Fiesta Del Soul as a a unique engagement opportunity uh the community connectors also were doing some other City related uh engagements there was an engagement with um uh one of the neighborhoods by the airport maybe it was sanon Del Centro uh where the community characters uh help uh hand out the uh QR codes for the surveys in Spanish in that Community as well okay thanks for that um and then to Tara's last Point like was there did you separate pull out from the data city of Boulder feedback like residents in

[61:00] terms of um not specifically but you know can easily do that um the majority of respondents were City oota residents uh but I could certainly pull them out to see you know if there's any variation in the responses uh in general you know there there seemed to be um you know uh continuity between all different groups in you know supporting Camp continuing and and also in kind of the different sets of improvements that were desired so it it would be fair to say from your data then that which would surprise me to be honest that people who are having to pay still support it as much as people who are kind of benefiting from the neighborhood parking reprieve well there there certainly yeah we certainly did hear some from some groups uh you know one of the boulder client CL in clubs they were uh against expanding the the paid season uh and

[62:00] expanding that um but I think you know from you know the Neighbors in the North in the MPP they definitely want to see it expanded uh but but most of the uh respondents in the general public survey that supported the expansion of Camp I think it could have been more with providing the multimodal option not necessarily the paid parking component but we want to have multimodal options to get to Camp I see so some of the positive feedback might not be that people are happy to pay more and more seasons but they they would like lime scooters to be allowed to park there well lime scooters the parkto park shuttles B cycle yes any type of multimodal improvement I think is the desired uh okay and is there do you have it parsed out then what percentage of people supported the extended season and paying more versus the multimodal

[63:02] improvements um I'm not sure if I could parse it out that way you know I basically asked you know if they were in support and kind of why they were in support of it um but it was one of those categories where you could choose more than one so it you know more than one reason why you want it to continue so it it may be difficult to parse that out specifically all right that's all my questions thanks so much yeah all right Aaron and then Tara yeah so uh Chris thanks for all the information and for um everybody for running a very successful program here um so you're talking about the possibility of direct Transit access and Tara had some good points and ideas that you responded to but can you maybe flesh out a little bit more like if we were to implement direct Transit access like what would be maybe a top two or three way kinds of ways that might look like but not binding you to anything but just

[64:01] to give us a better idea of how that might function sure you know certainly you know this would be informed by you know a feasibility study but you know one way it that I've been describing it to to people I talk with is you know we have the Hop to shiaka route you know what if we were to expand that hop to chaga route so we would hit more areas and have you know shiaka as a destination uh that would certainly be one way of doing it another way is you know what as we're constantly looking to the Future how do we provide like on demand microtransit Service uh that could provide that direct Transit access as well so I know you know this is something that via is working on in terms of their capability of providing that kind of on demand think about group Uber andyt uh trips that you could take and be picked up and have that direct access to it with a smaller vehicle so

[65:00] that would be possibly one other way of doing it as well um but I think you know a lot of times it's I think what people wanted to move Beyond was the having to drive somewhere to take the shuttle is there a way that I could get picked up use a transit route closer to my house to to to to get a direct drop off at chiaka so hopefully that help help it does thanks that's all IE awesome next Tara and then Matt I forgot to ask this question earlier sorry everybody for double dipping um when it comes to bicycle or ebike and reg and owned bikes by the community are there really enough W places where you can park your bike um what are those things called folks you know the inverted use yeah well okay whatever those Contraptions are I lost my brain it's not working right now what is that where you part

[66:02] where you like your bike up bike rack that's it see I knew you'd help me yeah yeah we we our our city standard is generally the inverted U okay the inverted U's that I like that so do you think right now there are enough bike racks at chitaka and at Cenas and in uh various other taka um I don't know if we've collected specific data on bike rack utilization um when I I've been there several times over the past year uh I saw adequate bike parking uh near the ranger Cottage um it didn't seem to be totally filled but I don't know uh Sam have you colle ever collected any B parking no okay CV has not done that um when I was at uh people's crossing the

[67:01] bike R was in a location that was behind trees and lately I've been thinking how to get people on their bikes to these various locations and according to this film that I watched from Vancouver probably a lot of people watched it having them out in the open as much as possible and really visible helps people gives people a sense of security that their bike will be there when they get back so I think that one of the reasons why people have a feeling but I could be wrong they don't take your bike more places and leave them for hours is because they don't have that feeling of security at least that's what they say on the various um social media sites so I was just wondering if you guys had any thoughts on that did it not come up or you think everything's fine um it did not come up as a issue that people were having but but Francis I see Francis unmuted because I do know that open space and Mountain Parks is uh about to

[68:00] or maybe initiated a site planning exercise there at chitaka I was just going to chime in that's something we frequently evaluate at Chads and access points for open space um we base that level of infrastructure based on the amount and type of visitation we're getting so we do review that fairly frequently and I think we will be in the process of reviewing that again for AA this year Francis could you introduce yourself just for everybody listening in yes of course uh Francis balding I'm the recreation and cultural stewardship senior manager with Open Space Mountain Parks thank you Tara are you done awesome Matt was that your only question not not for the introduction uh that was not my intended question I mean I mean I could predict the future technically but that was not the case um now my question is uh much more General and I've said this at our last meeting we we like to use pilot synonymous with Perpetual um so

[69:03] was it a pilot in 2017 and then this next chunk 2023 is sort of pilot plus are we still in a pilot phase or is this considered a program that we are operating and we are tweaking as we go I just it's important for us to kind of know how we're classifying it um but but I'm just curious what the what what is the staff thought and or what was previous Council Direction in in its intention yeah so I think clearly the first year was a pilot and then the ordinance was put in place to have it run until this time to evaluate it I myself have thought of it as a program uh not you know and and now I think you know one of the key questions is as if if we're directed to continue this you know do we remove a Sunset date from the ordinance and just have this program continue in perpetuity with of course you know staff uh working to make those

[70:01] operational changes you know to address any issues or to you know see constant Improvement in the program uh and if any my colleagues disagree with with that characterization speak now I I I appreciate that helps clarify things a lot Chris appreciate that awesome that's it are there any other questions coming from Council seeing none are there any feedback at this time seeing none at this time um I can straw pole the three questions being asked yes Rachel well yeah I if you want me to just wait and and do it when you're getting into the questions but I I think that where I would be on this right now is to continue it as is and not expand it pretty much where the open space board as I understand it unanimously came out and that um is a little bit painful from a uh Transportation lens for me but I

[71:02] don't quite understand how we could equitably get people to and from as fairly as the people who live right there right now under the the constraints that we have um I I think that the people who and and I'd be open to looking at you know all City residents Maybe could have a a free neighborhood parking pass while they're there or something and and um getting at it that way but I I do not understand how the majority of people who don't live close can get there on um days when we don't have that easy parking access at uh at the schools that are nearby and it I I haven't quite seen um I think we got an email to the effect of like we haven't really seen evidence that this is needed right now so um I would be supportive of more micro modal access so

[72:01] that piece I like full steam ahead on but in terms of charging extra uh parking um fees for people to get there when when it sounds like there is you know ample way to to utilize it right now I I would struggle with so if there's a way to just pull out the going forward with micromodal and encouraging people um to use alternative ways to get there and if we can do that safely like I am kind of worried about that hill right there and usually like when you see lime scooters there's not a lot of helmets in play so yeah I would want that kind of sorted out uh just a little bit worried there but um so anyhow supportive of micromodal but I I I I think we would have to have a really good plan for the people who don't live close inner city residents to access it as as easily as the people who can pay to live right there and can already walk right there uh so that I

[73:00] just have a I struggle with that on on an equity basis and I can't figure out how to fix that so that's where I'm at Lauren thanks juny yeah I agree Rachel with the direction you're going with that you know I I would like to see the program continued um on an ongoing basis and not needing to be updated every couple of years in terms of are we doing it are we not doing it I know personally that has impacted my ridership like is this still going on should I because for my house I can like hike across open space to the there um and then use public transportation to get back home but I wouldn't want to show up and have that not in place so um so I think get a more consistent program might help with increasing writers ship um and you know as Tara

[74:00] spoke about trying to sort of advertise it um more heavily again um and then I would support staff looking at changes um and bringing back sort of a list of what those might look like I'm open to the expanded season but I would want to look at that in terms of a whole Suite of other things um and really sort of look at the what phase two of this looks like um collectively with you know maybe expanding to Flag Staff um and some of those other components you brought forward thank you thanks Aon yeah I'll agree with my colleagues I won't repeat their points thanks for that one and Rachel the one thing I do want to address specifically is the third question about the um looking at transits uh past the current Park and

[75:00] Ride model and I'm very interested in that I think that has a lot of potential so would love for you all to dive into what that could look like and uh my my personal uh thing that I like the best is would be including cenitas uh in it as well because that's an area that where there's never parking on weekends and overflow and and it's hard to get up there um there's um a little hard with a and no Transit access and so if we had some way where where we have direct Transit access to both citas and shiaka that um is available to more people from more neighborhoods I think that would be amazing so would love to see further analysis of the potential there and and potentially microtransit I mean is as long as it it is actually still group uh rides right like not just picking one person up and taking them to one spot and I know you get that but you know just have to have a real significant group component to me to be valuable but would be really interested if we could make that work efficiently well uh but anyway just a amazing work

[76:01] and thanks for all that you've done and look forward to the continued success of the program Tera you're up do you who remember remember you guys were talking about the climbers and their objections um who was that that spoke about that email that the climber sent this I mentioned it um yeah we we received an email I think city council did and uh essentially they were for continuing camp but they were not for increasing the cost of parking and they were not for expanding the Camp season where you would have to pay to park more months of the year and I think you know I would like to just clarify you know in the staff recommendation we're saying to continue camp and we have some plan changes and then continue camp and there's some things we want some input

[77:01] on the expansion of the Camp season to more months out of year is really a component of the future feasibility study because we can really only expand it if we can you know design and fund a viable alternative to our current Park and Ride model so part of the you know just continuing on with Camp does not include that expansion of months that's really can could we expand it if we were able to develop a a system to provide multimodal access to shiaka beyond the limitations of the current Park and Ride model so I just wanted to clarify that I think five years ago my biggest worry one of them was that it would be quite expensive for people who took very long

[78:01] hikes to park for six hours I mean you're not and a lot of people do that they don't go for just two to three hours so I'm just wondering um I I definitely see the climbers point of view so I'm wondering uh what could be done about something like that or nothing uh well I I think there could be options for how the rates are scaled over time there could be a limit to you know the the overall you know what's the highest amount you could pay at a single day there I think but you know I think that's really in community vitalities um perview to you know I don't understand you know what the capabilities of our parking systems are in terms of how you can uh manipulate the rates but I don't know Sam if you have any well I think that's um sort of what we're getting at by suggesting something like performance-based pricing is if there's desire from Council to change

[79:00] the rate structure can certainly be done in any way that we want it to we can always make it happen but what you know what is the appetite to do that um and if there's any feedback then we're happy to take that back as we review the potential changes we might make to the program for the following years and um the last thing I want to say is Lauren in regards to Shanahan ridge's bus service I guess what I'm trying to figure out is because Shanahan Ridge does have bus service but what I'm trying to figure out is how to lessen the amount of Park they don't have any Trail parking up at Shanahan Ridge which is what the people complain about so how do we lessen and this is for the future like in the next five years how do we lessen the amount of parking up there how do we incentivize people to use their cars less up there they're not taking that I guess a lot of people aren't taking the bus or I just was listen you guys are pretty smart so I'm assuming you might have some ideas about

[80:00] that it's beyond my purview I don't Sam do you do you have any insight after some of your initial data collection up there well I think there's still some debate as to how severe the parking problem is we have some data we collected last year that wasn't in very compelling we're collecting data again this year see you know what it looks like again so we'll continue to monitor it but you know there's definitely improvements that could be made um like multimodal access you know B cycle stations lime Groves those types of things that could maybe encourage um looking beyond the single occupancy vehicle to arrive at that destination so those are certainly some things we could look into are you done Tara awesome great are there any other feedback from Council Members if not we can do a

[81:02] stwo and from what I heard already I think most of council members have said continue with changes or further exploration of the feasibility uh of providing direct transit services so uh are there council members who are in support of discontinuing camp at this time seeing none the next question is continue with changes can you clarify what changes we're looking at there juny because I think there's a couple different buckets this I can share my let me share my screen well I think you want to distinguish between the anticipated changes and the possible modifications right yes yeah great yeah does council have feedback on the possible modification to camp at this time I know a lot of you

[82:00] already offered some of the feedback so I'll just reiterate like I'm very open to multimodal access increasing and I think I heard you say Chris that that goes hand inand with extending the season uh and maybe days of the week but I I don't support that portion so I am supportive of looking at multim and and and seeing if we can do more of that and in some more places potentially but I am not in favor of charging City residents more hours and more of a a season to have access to hiking when I just I think that we don't have really great options still for um people taking dogs and and people who need to get there quickly and and at times when the the high schools and such are are going to be not available for parking okay so just to clarify you know these are the anticipator you could say plan

[83:00] changes that staff has said you know these are things that we need to do or or should do so these are the anticipated changes uh the lime scooter access will want to control and manage parking identify areas for lime Groves um we have the B cycle station Landmark approval uh we have not installed it um looking at at Future changes to the H to shiaka Route uh updating our parking signage and then you know dealing with the New Vista lot issue and then those are so those are the kind of planned or anticipated changes and then the the modifications there's three one is do we Implement performance-based pricing do we establish a Comm a commuter permit program for those shiaka employees and do we we uh look at innovative ways of using some of the parking Revenue to provide additional TDM benefits uh to

[84:01] employees and and uh you know I I know in talking to the uh Colorado chaga Association and there and Jason over there who's their their Chief Operating Officer he said Camp is working great the the one place we still have issues is with our employees and with our commuting because of the lack of options and that most of them live outside of Boulder and far away you know which is a trend we're seeing in our Workforce Workforce in general great are there any other comments so we basically we're continuing with changes and the possible modification for 2024 Camp are there any other feedback at this time seeing none did you get everything go ahead Rachel well are you gonna straw poll on the possible modifications well I think the way the way the question or the way the feedback

[85:00] is being asked of you I don't think we needed to stle that but the discontinuation I wanted to strapple to see if there were council members who wanted to do that and it appears that that's not what council wanted to do they don't want to discontinue they want to continue so basically your feedback is about the possible modifications yeah and I'm just not sure if there was a majority of support like for bullet point one under the possible modifications okay well we can do a straw on that as well if that helps so are there council members who are in support of the implementation of performance-based pricing do you have a comment Nicole or you just you I just have a question and um so the in in these sort of possible modifications my understanding was that staff was going to go and explore a little bit more come back with some more information but maybe I'm misunderstanding that so we were looking for council's input you know on

[86:00] including these modifications like the planned and anticipated ones I think are solid staff you know fully supports they're all viable these are the ones that through the process with stakeholders and others you know that we thought we should bring to council for some input you know the first one clearly has an impact on pricing uh in and around the park the other two are about the use of funds so we thought it would be prudent to to get council's feedback uh on use how how we can use uh these uh revenues uh to kind of reinvest in into our into our employees and visitors yep thank you okay then thank you I understand the straw pulling then we're going to go through these and talk about them thank you Aaron yeah and so Chris just to be clear in the memo you talked about the possibility of expanding the season but that's not actually one of the proposed potential modifications correct correct that is

[87:01] because that we can't really do it unless we find another way to move beyond that Park and Ride model and so that's no I I totally understood the rationale behind just wanted to clarify that point yes yes okay so that's not on the table these are about these specific potential proposals that we would investigate thank you Al righty next uh so the first question or at least the first drle is the implementation of the performance-based pricing do Council support that well supporting investigating it not necessarily making it happen right yes so far I have seen uh well the only hand is not AB is Tera so so we have eight 81 so yes my hands not up your hands is not up okay so two Bob I can't see you

[88:01] on the screen either on the screen either oh Bob's hand is up so it's a seven2 at this time no my actually my hand is not up either my apologies 63 so uh there are opport you you're welcome to investigate but I don't know if those who have their hands down would like to um offer a comment as to why they don't support get your reason why Rachel um but if Bob and Mark wants to add anything else would you like to add anything at this time well I was in favor Jenny you're in favor okay awesome um Tara and Mark did to Rachel nothing to add at this time thank you next would be the establishment of a commuter permit parking program for employees just so you know by the way uh we have in the on the screen I'm looking at the um the slides and also I'm trying to find you all where you are so so as

[89:02] of right now let's see I see the only hand that is not up at this time is Mark and Matt so I would say it's uh 72 to go ahead and continue your research and investigation uh number three use of parking revenues to fund additional TDM benefits great as of right now we have only Mark and Bob or the only two people with their hands down so yes you're welcome to move forward would you like to any add offer any feedback for those with their hands down if not uh you we're welcome to move on to to the next issue and subject matter did you get everything that you need Chris yes yes we can certainly uh

[90:00] further explore those areas and you know what I would say is when we uh go back and we are designing for the 2024 Camp season we can bring back those you know our proposed designs with those elements and and present those to council awesome great thank you now next we have the does council have feedback on staff recommendation to further explore feasibility of providing direct transit services to shiaka are there any feedback at this time from council members on this particular issue so we can still straw pull these ones as well which is please do do it all together just do a global yeah because it it would be a feasibility study that would look at all

[91:00] of these different elements um and to understand is it possible uh to provide the service how much would it cost you know and and then we could bring that back you know and that study would you know we can initiate it in 2024 likely to continue in 2025 uh then we would certainly you know bring back uh information to council saying you know we've gone and we've looked at this you know we we see a viable path forward or you know and then and then we can move on from there and Chris just for clarity in as as Council considers these possibilities I guess the question is is there anything else that that uh we should get in feedback to consider as we're doing this feasibility study would that be accurate um if there is additional feedback that Council has as we're doing this to get it now sure that that would

[92:00] be great you know the these are kind of the components of the feasibility study that we thought uh would be good but you may think of other ones as well um but I would say that you know the idea of the trail kind of a holistic trail head access management would include us looking at other destinations Beyond Aqua you know and that may be something you were thinking of Nua you know to cenitas to janahan Ridge those other areas as well great now how many council members support this future exploration into feasibility Rachel you have your hands up well just that I'm not going to be in favor of anything that charges people uh more than the people who live right next to access have to pay so for for City residents I I that's just inequitable to me so I support looking at it but I just wouldn't build that into it thank you for that uh yes uh please raise your

[93:01] hands and let me know if you support this study or further exploration at this time this is an eight well nine actually you have unanimous except with the caveat that Rachel doesn't support or at least um increased parking fees on community members well that brings us to the end of this particular issue I just wanted to reiterate uh what I've heard so far from Council Members especially from Rachel as well uh she welcome continuing your exploration and research um continuing the camp as supported by the open space board uh and also one of the things I hear from multiple council members as well well is the micromodal multimodal uh increased as well to look into uh expanding marketing right

[94:00] because you want people to uh to know about access how to get from one trail head to the to to another and also looking into microtransit but also what you've heard some count from some council members as well is when it comes to the pricing performance please please think carefully about community members and what does that look for them when you increasing parking fees so that's the feedback that I have summarized from my fellow council members and um do you need any more feedback do you feel like you get exactly what you need to move forward yes I I think we do and I just want to say thank you for your time really appreciate the thoughtful input and uh I would also just take a moment just thank you to my my project team uh it was really a great team effort and also all our stakeholders you know we wouldn't

[95:00] have been here without uh their feedback their input and and their commitment to this project so thank you well thank you so much for being here and thank you for this really really great presentation next we have the process update on imp mentation of the East Boulder subc commmunity plan zoning recommendation and I will pass it along to my CD manager Maria vendite thank you council member Joseph and for that uh we'll go straight to Kathleen to spare you my voice yes okay I'm going to pull up a presentation so I'll share my screen all right let's see can you can you all see see well okay great let me see if I can just move something so I can um see

[96:03] my notes here all right here we go okay well good evening um my name is Kathleen King and I'm a planner on the city's comprehensive planning team it is great to be back at city council this evening with an update on a key implementation step of the East Boulder subc Community Plan I think most of the council members were involved in the planning and adoption processes for the subcommunity plan that took place over the last few years so I'm really looking forward to working with you all on its implementation so tonight uh we're going to be talking about zoning as juny described I'm going to give a presentation first and go over some of the background and early process information that we've collected so far after that we can go through any clarifying questions you may have and I'll mention that I'm joined tonight by pnds director Brad Mueller and comprehensive planning manager Christopher Johnson who are also available this evening for

[97:00] questions and then I have some questions focused really on the form based code that I look forward to getting your feedback on so we'll start with East Boulder and just give a reminder about where this is the East Boulder subc Community is one of the city's 10 subc communities and it's generally located north of arapajo and east of Foothills Parkway so it includes areas like flat iron Business Park the hospital and velmont city park today the area is generally industrial and office focused and the city went through a three-year planning and engagement process to identify how the community would like to see East Boulder evolve over the next 15 to 20 years and that resulted in the East Boulder sub community plan which was adopted by planning board and city council last year during during that process and captured in the plan the community provided intentional direction for how they wanted certain neighborhoods to look and feel as they change through Redevelopment over time

[98:02] the plan uses a tool called Place types that describe allow and conditional ground floor uses so um allow unconditional ground floor uses are these are the types of businesses or homes that we want to see along a street Frontage allowed uses above ground floors so whether oper stories should be residential or commercial or some combination of the two usable open space describing expectations for the amount of outdoor space for social Gathering or connection with nature um things like building character which imagines what buildings might look like and the kind of atmosphere they should create street level activation describing what kinds of design features might Foster an appropriate exchange between building users and people on the street streetscape character which speaks to the kind of landscaping lighting and even Street Furniture that might be

[99:00] appropriate access and Mobility which considers how people and goods will move through these working and Industrial neighborhoods and then finally expectations around parking so where should parking be located and how um should it follow the city's some principles so the plan's pretty specific in its direction but we don't yet have the regulatory Tools in place to ensure that Redevelopment will deliver these types of neighborhoods so one of the key recommendations included in the plan and identified as a priority for the first phase of implementation is this East Boulder zoning and form based code study this is what our team's currently working on with support from a consultant team that includes code Specialists we've been working with the firm codam metrics over the past few years as part of this City's design Excellence initiative to improve the public realm and lead to the design of better buildings in the community um codom metrics developed the

[100:00] city's pilot form based code which was recently updated to include guidance for the Alpine Balsam site so this project includes two major components first the zoning and a strategy to help property owners who are interested in rezoning their properties work with the city to update their zoning District and then secondly form-based code we're considering whether form-based code is an appropriate tool for East Boulder neighborhoods and how it should be updated to implement the East Boulder subc Community Plan so for the zoning element um we have generally four areas or neighborhoods in East Boulder which the subc community plan calls areas of change so these are neighborhoods where we're looking to go from industrial focused districts to walkable mixed use neighborhoods our options are to either use um one or more of the city's existing Zone districts and modify it to

[101:00] match what is called for in the plan or we may choose to create new zones to align with guidance of the subc commmunity plan so this is something we're studying right now and I will come back to Council in a few months with our initial recommendations on this piece secondly we're considering which if any of these areas could be appropriate for form based code in general a form based code establishes building form and design standards focuses on the connection between building and public spaces like streets and plazas and provides a high level of predictability in the review process so in Boulder um areas are regulated by a form based code or identified on the form based code areas map and appendix L of the code the code describes that these areas should have plans associated so East Boulder has that then the underlying zoning regulates the allowed uses in the area so whether we choose to pursue form

[102:00] based code or not either way we will still have to update that underlying zoning the form based code then actually acts like an overlay providing specific guidance for things like building mass and scale materials that can be used on facades outdoor space types and designed for Street scapes this is all put together in what's called a regulating plan so um on your screen these are the regulating plans that are currently in the code and they cover those two areas identified on the map Boulder Junction and Alpine balam for East Boulder we would use some of the plan tools in the sub community plan like the place type map Place type performance standards and our Mobility plan to develop regulating plans for East Boulder neighborhoods so so why are we considering extending the form based code to East Boulder form based code in its purpose is really intended to create those walkable human scaled

[103:00] neighborhoods that are described in the sub community plan and as a tool it can help provide direct regulation around outcomes that we've committed to in the subc community plan so we do think it's a good match uh but before we commit we wanted to take a look back at how form based code has delivered on both local AR chitecture and the public realm in the places where it's been used so far so in the city there are actually only three projects that have gone through the form-based code review process just in initial uh conversations with some community members I think there's a misconception that all of the recent development in Boulder Junction was completed under form based code but it's actually just these three sites so the northern two are projects and the South Southeast corner of Bluff Street in Junction place and then the third uh larger project is the 30 Pearl Project some buildings and spaces are totally

[104:00] completed and others are still under construction uh but we can take a look at the character and quality of these places as they are today and ask ourselves the question is it working so um I've collected some images of the sites and you know as we walk through these I asked that as you consider this question you're not uh necessarily critiquing the architect's choices but instead consider whether the specific and measurable components of the code have improved the quality and character of the neighborhood as a place so I pulled um just a couple elements of building design that are regulated massing and proportion minimum Heights and requirements for transparency on ground floors setbacks driveway access locations facade materials and recessed windows so here's some um images of how those are playing out in the

[105:03] neighborhood and then in the public realm looking at The Pedestrian first dimensions for streets and posos how compatible the streetcape is with adjacent buildings material guidance for poos throughout the area and then expectations for outdoor lighting are just some of the design elements regulated by the form base code the specific requirements for all of these elements are identified through that regulating plan which assigns building types Street types and outdoor space types in the neighborhood so if we do pursue this for East Boulder neighborhoods there's a point in the future where we'll ask you to really get into the nitty-gritty of these details but for now I'm just giving a general overview and asking for some initial and general feedback so we've been working with the community through a couple of different engagement venues to collect their feedback on both the code itself and the form-based code

[106:01] review process we've assembled a technical advisory committee of members of the local design Community who work in Boulder as well as other places and have experience with designing for local development we've also engaged a series of focus groups including Area Property Owners and Developers area business owners Mobility service providers and Advocates and a group of local planning and housing Advocates we're also um holding one-on-one interviews with groups like The Boulder housing partners and those interested in Area Redevelopment in general community members have identified some challenges with code and process some benefits to the form-based code and opportunities for improvement so some of the challenges that we've heard from community members mbers is that there's a concern that um kind of the level and specificity of the regulation could limit creativ creativity of the design

[107:00] Community we heard you know I think from a variety of of interests and folks that there's a concern for affordability of the commercial space in East Boulder and its future ability to support small business space in the face of Redevelopment um from that technical advisory committee they mentioned that of the three form-based code projects that have been completed so far all three of those have been called up um by planning board which adds to the overall project cost and ultimately um the unit costs some of the benefits folks described um they like the pre predictability of the form-based code review process um again that ta AC uh technical advisory committee described that the form-based code actually supports designers um in their effort to convince clients to do the right thing or to

[108:01] choose um higher quality design or higher quality materials and in general there's a belief that the form based code is working to prevent bad architecture in the community some of the opportunities that community members described um are that for this next iteration we should consider updating the material pallets for East Boulder Aesthetics so the idea that these are you know more industrial neighborhoods and we should consider more industrial um materials as well as consider the cost Implement um cost implications of material choices um folks brought up the idea of considering design features over 55 ft so um some examples of that were things like um pitched roofs um railings for rooftop access things like that and then um there was a desire to provide actually

[109:00] more information on the design of the public realm spaces we also had a staff workshop with folks from our development review team as well as some team members from the city attorney's office to understand their perspective on how well the form based code and review processes are working some of the challenges um that they described are that the form-based code in the projects that have been built so far haven't really delivered outdoor spaces that are feeling welcoming to children or welcoming to families we've heard that the Bluff Street buildings don't have a lot of variability in color or window patterning so creating kind of a wall of the same type of aesthetic along a street um staff have heard from builders that the maximum building length limitations are driving up their cost and ultimately the unit prices and then um as the Alpine Balsam

[110:03] site is going through uh form base code review right now we're hearing some feedback that it's been more challenging to apply the form based code for adaptive reuse projects some of the benefits that um staff described are that these specific and measurable regulations of the form based code have made um those conversations with development teams um a lot easier because it it's more sort of black and white um they believe that the view corridors that are identified in the form based code have really resulted in preserve V Vistas and Views throughout um that Boulder Junction neighborhood we've heard that the sayos are really well used and um liked by residents in the neighborhoods and there's a belief that um the high quality materials that are

[111:01] prescribed in the form based code um really Elevate the Aesthetics of the neighborhood some of the opportunities that staff described um for this next iteration would be to find a way to get more variability in roof Styles and consider potential unoccupied roof volume above 55 ft I think in general we've heard a lot about um boxy buildings and flat top buildings and so trying to break that up um another opportunity is to allow for longer buildings if they're broken up by Courtyards and articulation of roof form or variation so this was sort of a response to that feedback from Builders about um building length and then um there's also an idea about developing a menu of options for ground level activation requirements so right now we require a lot of retail on ground floors and for a place like East

[112:01] Boulder um thinking about ways that we could allow for different types of active ground floor use and then um last week we also met with planning board to understand how well they think the form base code has been working thus far um some of the challenges they described are that some of the material and facade requirements they believe are resulting in undesirable building faces um I think in general they also believe that um the form-based code is preventing bad architecture but there's a concern that it may limit opportunity for some kind of exceptional design um and then they also noted that there's a lack of amenities or um outdoor spaces for families in in the completed form-based code projects for the benefits planning board

[113:02] um also really likes the poos they believe that the form based code is delivering good buildings when when it's supplied in the right areas um and they like that the required materials are really high quality and and have been um they've seen nice choices and materials for for the buildings and the completed projects uh some of the opportunities they'd like to see are that we improve the outdoor space requirements um trying to incorporate more green outdoor spaces and provide canopy um again that idea of striving to achieve variation in roof line avoiding a lot of flat topped roofs and then also allowing for industrial Aesthetics appropriate to the east Boulder neighborhoods so we're taking all of this feedback along with your input tonight to complete the first phase of our project which is an inventory and Analysis that looks at the form based

[114:01] code in particular and its applicability to East Boulder then in the next month we're moving into rezoning recommendations and we'll work on how we may incorporate Community benefits identified in the sub community plan into future rezoning strategies once we have solid recommendations about those two pieces I'll bring that back to council early next year with draft recommendations for how we might move forward on this implementation effort we'll take um board and Council feedback and create some draft zoning and potentially draft form based code updates and regulating plans that will'll put out for public reviews and we hope to complete the effort and um go for adoption next spring so we can see some of that plan come to fruition um that's about it you know I think since the sub community plan really sets the vision for the area this work is

[115:00] pretty Technical and um really detailed so I I hope I've given you a general overview um of what we'll be working on but I imagine um there might be some questions so I can take any clarifying questions and then we could go into Council discussion would you like me to stop sharing oh uh juny I think you are muted thanks thank you you're welcome to take it down and then please raise your hand council members if you have any questions concerning this presentation or first questionnaire person who asked questions will be Lauren thank you juny and thank you for the present ation Kathleen um as we look forward at next steps um once zoning

[116:01] designations have been laid out if a property owner wants to update their Zone will that be an administrative or a discretionary process so as part of the implementation I think we're looking at a rezone strategy that would allow any property owners in those areas of change to pursue rezoning through an administrative process kind of in a group um effort um but there will not be a comprehensive rezoning so we're not going to require all properties in any of the areas of change to rezone in the immediate future if they don't have an interest in pursuing that thank you um and then related to uh form base code you mentioned that

[117:00] all three of the projects in the city that have well okay so first of all there are more Parcels that have undergone Redevelopment that were eligible for the form base code right that chose not to go through form base code is that true I no I think it was a question of timing so um the if you are within the form base code areas map you have to go through form based code but the projects that did not go through form base code that are in Boulder Junction were down a review process um before the code was adopted got it thank you um if all three projects that went through it were called up um for a discretionary review anyway I guess I'm questioning

[118:00] what what do we see as the benefit of having sort of this more layered um set of requirements if we're going to put the project through a discretionary process anyway I think we're looking at um that issue as part of this project I'll say that some of the conversation that planning board had and and memories about why those projects were called up um when we spoke with them last week were that the form base code was new they weren't sure how it was going to be working and you know I think um some members of the board um are have a belief that once they get more comfortable with the form based code and the form based code review the call-ups will um be less

[119:02] frequent thank you that's it for my questions I do have comments but I'll save those for later thank you Lauren Aon you're next and then Matt so I'm going down a similar place to where Lauren is so of those three uh that were called up um what changes if any were made in the callup hearing do do you know that off hand um it you know what that was discussed last week as well and I believe that there um was a change in one of the projects I think 30 Pearl but there was not um in the other two projects um the other oh go ahead oh just do you know what the scope of that change was on on the 30 Pearl I don't remember no um no I see Brad just popped up maybe he he knows yeah I I don't know that but I do recall that the planning board also made the comment that um it was very

[120:01] likely that any projects uh would have been called up just because of this new process and and people being curious about it and and wanting to uh you know just feel that they're they're engaged in that that the planning board members were engaged in that uh just reiterating athletes comment that the sense is that that would scale down as this became more common place for everybody great thanks for that that's all I got next mat oh you're muted Matt yes I am I think sta may be hearing a theme here because I'm gonna follow on where Lauren was was I think pulling on a really important thread here um may get back to that on comments and so is so is Mayor Brockett do we know how long that um discretionary review process added to those projects that otherwise would not have had to gone through it and been

[121:00] treated like everything else more or less like number of weeks I don't know um I mean planning board right and that's that's a yeah it's at least a month usually unto itself I'm just trying to get a sense of because I guess my question comes down to if we're creating a pre-approved menu of options we would hope that that would create a more streamlined process not add length of time beyond what is already a really long process that I know Brad and his team and us are working desperately to to trim the fat off so I just want to make sure we're not kind of also working against ourselves that's why I kind of want to know how much time is there because ultimately if these in process improvements that we look to see here in the next coming months trim our process down but this form baate code sort of inflates them back up have we kind of gotten to a net zero or we also still eventually at a net gain of process

[122:00] timing and thus time money saved and and moving things through the hopper so um yeah I really appreciate that question and I think um you know as we're describing as as planning board gets more comfortable with the forign base code that will hopefully fade out but uh I also spoke this week with Bill Holi um who's an architect at Coburn and they have the most experience working with the form base code um and he said you know on their recent effort with the Alpine Balsam project um some of the back and forth that goes on in the process of a discretionary review um they for the design of the Alpine ball some buildings everything kind of sailed through in this first pass and he said he's never ever ever ever seen that happen and so I think you know as our design Community

[123:00] also gets more familiar with the form based code there will be on on both sides of the table um uh uh familiarity and uh greater ease of process I appreciate that answer and I I'm not holding to it but I would still like to know at some point what that actual time frame is for it again not not pressing over harder but at some point we'll just like to know that just to aggregate on on on our end yes thank you appreciate that I can look that up maybe I can elaborate a little bit in that regard uh councilman so um there are probably various issues here and some of which you just alluded to and and others as well which is um recognizing that there are structural elements of uh certain review criteria baked into the code that we want that we are working to identify and will'll bring to council here uh in the new year as suggestions for possible

[124:00] change which would really address the overall process um then we've also talked uh Kathleen's talked about the component unique to the cops that we've seen in the past but that uh kind of being phased out over time and ultimately it's this um tension that we're trying to manage of a high design standard that's been expressed as a value um and balancing prescriptiveness which does make things more straightforward for the design process right it's more by Design but not going so far that we limit creativity and um you know based on the feedback we've gotten so far feels like it's getting in that sweet spot but but we'll need to keep an eye on for sure thank you Brad you welcome to or any other uh CD staff when they start speaking to let the community know their name and their title um but I can see it I apologize yeah Brad Mueller

[125:01] director of planning and development services thank you thank you are there any other questions at this time as it relates to project process and Next Step seeing none we can move forward now we have we're heading to question number two is that correct Kathleen has the form based code delivered the desired outcomes or pre previously adapted plans do you want to elaborate a little bit on that question as to exactly what are you asking from Council Members thank you sure I think the question is really about um in the work that's been built to date under the form based code do you believe that we are living up to um the vision that's described in in those plans so the transit Village area plan for the Boulder Junction projects and then moving forward the Alpine bossom area plan for that Alpine bossom site um

[126:03] and if if you think the answer is no I'd love to um have you elaborate and and describe maybe what your concerns are thank you Kathleen first we have mayor Brackett and then council member HRS yeah and if maybe I can combine this with number three which is how well is the form based code review process working because I see them as pretty closely intertwined um I I think we're getting a lot of positive things from the form based code um I think we're getting some good outcomes I think uh the reviews that you heard from the development community and from planning board um showed some positive outcomes that we're hearing um so I think that's positive I also thought there were some really great specific suggestions in the what you heard from those same groups planing board the development community and such so I I really encourage uh us to take those to heart in the crafting

[127:01] of the the next steps I thought there were some excellent feedback I will say that I think one of the the great benefits of a form-based code is that it's more prescriptive you know you're getting more exactly what you're asking for but then the flip side of that is that applicants then have a certainty in terms of the the review process and so if they adhere to the form based code then you know they generally are assured of of moving through the process and so I guess I'm concerned that every single one has been called up so far because that's it's kind of losing that that check and balance of like okay well it's prescriptive so therefore the development can be um the review process can be simpler so I I would encourage us with this next phase to um I'm not sure exactly what to do it but to U encourage uh less discretionary review and I don't know what exactly what that looks like do we just remove it entirely or require a two-thirds Vote or or something but about making the the threshold for

[128:01] discretionary view uh higher so that we get more of the full benefits of both sides of having that more prescriptive approach with the form based code so I I don't have the perfect answer there but I think the balance there has been somewhat off um so far um and would would love to see thinking about how that could work a little different ly and um yeah and and just I'll just reiterate those specific suggestions had some good one like one I I don't think you mentioned this presentation that I saw in the memo was the questioning whether the the golden ratio was a useful thing to include in the code and when we first approved this like I forget how many years ago I was like I was dubious on that and so it didn't surprise me to see that that feedback come back this time so that would be one I might consider for for removal I don't know if that's really getting important getting us better outcomes but um in general I think we're going in a good direction and I really appreciate your deep analysis of this Kathleen and um look forward to the next steps thanks awesome thank you Ain now we have Lauren

[129:01] and then Rachel thank you juny and yeah I second everything Aon just said including the golden ratio um rectangle requirement in the facade I can divide a facade in so many different ways and I make a golden ratio happen when it's not really happening it's a ridiculous rule um I I appreciate um form Blas code and I think that East Boulder is an appropriate place to work on this I think that the form based code can be really successful at helping produce really great background buildings you know it's sort of the brick building that is just a nice building that you don't really notice but is good high quality

[130:00] um I don't know that it's hard to keep the flexibility to allow for a more iconic structure with form base code and I don't know that that's really something that we want the code to be able to accomplish but maybe people could opt out of it and into um a discretionary process for a different kind of of building like on a corner parcel or in a location where a more um a building that Demands a little bit more attention might make sense because I'm not sure that as East Boulder evolves that everywhere there is a place where we would want to see background buildings we want might want a marquee building in some locations um I would also really encourage us to look at what people appreciate from

[131:02] being produced from the form base code and keep those rules and if the rules aren't sort of addressing things that people are really appreciating that maybe those are rules that we could um dial back or not um include think there's things you know I understand sort of the reasoning behind minimum Heights for the ground floor but as we look at areas that might have retail on or sorry residential on the ground floor I don't know that I think that that makes as much sense and it can and even in some of the pictures you showed where you have that residential ground floor that's stretched um but the windows are the same size as on all the other floors it just it it does weird things um so just really being selective of what rules we move forward with and like Aaron said looking at um trying to ensure that those that there's a higher bar for

[132:01] being called up for a discretionary review when people are going through the form based code process thanks Rachel thanks juny mostly I just wanted to say hi Kathleen it's nice to see you long time you know I think some of some of the time my job is just to get out of the way like staff are the experts I am not a former planning board member I'm not you know like Aaron I'm not a an architect or former design Advisory Board chair like I I have a lot of faith in what Aaron and Lauren both just said and in staff's presentation so I just want to say thank you and um I agree with everything that that has been said by Aon and Nicole and support and then I'm going to just nicely get out of the way thanks thanks Rachel next Matt we like it when you are inserting yourself uh Rachel at all times and we will miss it so don't um prematurely get out of the way we're going to miss you when you leave um almost five meetings

[133:03] left thanks why are you stop counting come on hanging this hard on all of us um so I'm gonna again kind of pull on a little bit of where oh where mayor rocket was going on this um I I first I'm going to start with one of the recommendations that I think is important for us to consider is f is the you know what are the opportunities for improvement you know finding a way for more variability in roof Styles especially as things get near that 55 hot limit 55 foot height limit because I know that like when we are like bulking the you know uh mechanical we're bulking it near the side in order to put fencing and weird things like that versus allowing it in the middle and or or or where fencing is and not creating that that space for either variable roof types or new creative uses in and around that 55t height limit um be it you know Community Gardens or places for public

[134:00] to utilize because again if we're if we're stripping away with height visibility then why aren't we allowing the public to then access the top to gain the ultimate visibility so we should be incentivizing that to we're blue in the face and if that's a few feet here and there on 55 ft that that that should be the standard so I I I think that's something that we should be working with really easily here um so that that's a recommendation I'd love to see going forth but ultimately I I'll come back to you know the those delivered outcomes yeah I mean I I I think we want to sort of Follow that that that lead um and I'll come back to um process here in a little bit when we talk about the review process but um that's a big one on top of what has been stated already awesome thank you are there any more comments on number two some of you have already responded and by combining two and three so are there any comment at

[135:00] this time when it comes to how well is the form based code review process working and I know Matt you actually wanted to offer some feedback I appreciate that juny yeah I mean I just to sort of close on on the review the sort of the review I mean I appreciate the desire and the assumption that um with greater comfort in the form based code work there would be less discretionary call-ups but I I I think where eron's going is key we should have some guardrails on that um I think all most of us I would say are still keenly aware of or be the scars of when discretionary review was uh sort of deliberately used as a delay tool and to throw sand in sort of the gears of of projects and and I think we need to we need to protect ourselves from that and so I think some appropriate guardrails on that would be would be important uh going forward um because I

[136:01] I think if we want these things in our community and we've created this menu then that should ultimately be how we get there and get there faster um so I think that that's an essential thing otherwise we're sort of working against ourselves awesome thank you are there any other feedback at this time um if not I can just summarize what I heard from Council at this time yes Mark uh just a quick comment in support of what Lauren said about um having enough flexibility to produce more iconic buildings when when appropriate um you know I looking at the buildings that have been developed so far under um the form based code um there doesn't seem to be anything particularly special about them and there are times when you want to do something or ought to want to

[137:00] do something that is special and iconic uh by virtue of location uh and opportunity and I would not like to uh make it too difficult to achieve that when it when it's deemed appropriate um I want to support Lauren's comment on that great are there any other comments from Council at this time seeing none here's what I heard uh to please incorporate feedback from the development community in the planning board how can we discourage disc discretionary review to have a more of a prescriptive approach to the form based code reassessment of the rules to find out which are more or less popular be more selective of the rules hire bar for being called up and then you have the thinks from Rachel and more variability on the roof Styles and I

[138:00] agree with that as well but I thought could there be a potted plant blocking or Community view of the flat irons and also to have more flexibility to create more iconic buildings so Kathleen at this time do you have any questions for Council based on what you just heard did you get the um the responses that you need in order to move forward um now no further questions I think all the I'm sorry we can't hear you oh let's see I can hear you now can you hear me now yes okay great um I was just saying uh no further questions um I think the feedback is really helpful uh will come back with some draft recommendations in a couple of months so um thanks for reading the memo thanks for all your help uh I don't think I'll be back before November so for um folks

[139:02] I won't see after November it's it's been really great working with you all and and thanks for all your support over the last couple of years thank you for being here and thank you for a very succinct memo I think all the memos tonight was very very to the point and thank you for great work next thank you next we have Council discussion on supporting Boulder County ballot measure 18 open space sales and used tax extension and revenue changes noria we need you I was actually gonna send it back to you all to see what you would like to do with this um we had gotten a CAC request I believe from the mayor so wanted just to hear back what your thought thoughts were perfect would you like to start Aaron give us maybe at least frame the discussion for us thank you very much yes I'd be happy too thanks jie thanks naria um so at our last business meeting

[140:02] we approved a a letter of support for the 1B which is the affordable housing tax with some accompanied by some requests uh for the County Commissioners and that got sent over to them I understand they'll be responding when they have a chance which is great um but there's also couny measure 1A which I wanted us to consider taking a position of support for this is a 05% sales tax that goes to the um purchase and maintenance of open space at the county level so just wanted to check council's temperature and see if we might be interested in supporting that and if we would be we could get something on consent at our business meeting for next week I know the County Commissioners would certainly appreciate the support um for this uh they're very keen on uh seeing it improve the system and maintain it um so I if people want to offer comments that's great or June if you want to straw poll or whatever is your pleasure all right we can are there any questions or comments for Aon at this time seeing none please raise your hand

[141:03] we'd like to straple to find out who's interested in supporting this particular measure this is unanimous great awesome thank you for bringing this forward Ain are there any thoughts and comments you'd like to add final comments oh just thanks for the support everybody and so maybe we can uh we'll send a request to CAC to get this um te up for our business meeting on consent next Thursday appreciate everybody considering it thank you Mark I saw your hand off I wonder if that was a last minute raise hand or do you have any comments no other comments thank you I think this brings us to the end of our CD Council or meeting today and um are there any last minute comments questions or comments from Council seeing none at this time we are currently adjourned and thank you for being here and thank you to all our staff have a wonderful rest of your night everyone thanks

[142:16] juny I