August 3, 2023 — City Council Regular Meeting

Transcript

Captions from City of Boulder YouTube recording.

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[4:24] thank you [Music] I'm going to call to order the Thursday August 3rd 2023 regular meeting of the Boulder City Council welcome everybody good to have you here and we're going to start by asking for a motion to amend the agenda we've got an item 8A to add an update on homeless Services external evaluation safe

[5:01] Outdoors camping Bob I moved the amend the agenda as you just stated Aaron although I'd like to add an additional item to the agenda yeah I would like us after we take roll to sing happy birthday to one of our helix okay we've got a motion to amend the agenda to add a new item 1A uh singing for did she know Tara's uh 65 love it uh all in favor we have a motion a second okay they're singing Happy Birthday to me today second if you need one yeah we haven't called roll though yeah so let's let's get to that first I'll discombob you later good evening everyone we'll start tonight's roll call as usual with councilmember Benjamin mayor bronkit present

[6:04] Tim Wallach present virtually councilmember weiner present Yates right here mayor we have our Quan um Bob I'd invite you to repeat your motion if you don't mind I moved to amend the agenda as Aaron stated previously before the roll call plus an additional singing of happy birthday to our colleague Tara Leonard whose birthday it is today second got a motion in a second all in favor raise your hands okay that's unanimous the agenda is duly amended and so Bob perhaps you'd like to take the lead on our new island 1A oh well I I just I think we should acknowledge that Tara um took her birthday or special day I would have taken the night off Tara and so we're happy to have you here voting and participating tonight hopefully we'll get you out of here early so you can have maybe a glass of wine before you go to bed um and Aaron you have such a beautiful singing voice would you mind Tina's off here on a rendition of happy birthday to Tara

[7:00] happy birthday to you happy birthday to you happy birthday happy birthday to you and many more roll out the candles okay so that concludes item 1A which moves us to our item 1B which is a declaration for pollinator and little creature appreciation fall equinox celebration presented by council member Yates we have some guests tonight we're a little shy Maybe

[8:04] before we're going to read a declaration here and we have some guests who are going to um join us but before we do that I think we have some um some information from staff so we're here tonight um on what would be in September the ninth pollinator appreciation month but because we had a lot of wonderful artists and Poets come together from our community for an exhibit in the library gallery that is going up next week so it will be available on August 12th and run all the way through the end of September we are expanding to celebrate all of the insects and other little invertebrates and creatures who are critical for the living systems that provide our air water and everything essential for life we want to change people's perspectives about insects so that they love them and welcome them into our our world and each of you a council and this is going to unavailable on the website for coolbuilder.org is a whole a whole

[9:01] series of free events um and we have English and one side Spanish on the other and we're lucky to have Dr Sammy Ramsey an amazing um celebrity entomologist during our opening event so if you'd like to come to that reception please sign up soon because it's filling up and this is and we'll also have our ninth Boulder Festival in September and Cynthia Scott one of our beach chicas who's hosted it all these years is here to welcome you to come to that yes I just love to invite you all to come and be there we have so many educational events for children and adults to learn about the biodiversity of our world and to to get excited so please join us in Central Park next to the Farmers Market on September 9th from 10 to 2. and the children are while we're doing this for future Generations because it's it's critical that we take action now and provide hope and real action that's going to make a difference so with that

[10:01] can bring the kids up thank you um normally we read this off a piece of paper but we're doing this electronically tonight um can we have the kids come up and join us can you help me here please hey guys come on now come over here come on over here come here come on over here all right you guys want to sit down who do you want to stand you want to stand okay you guys all look really really good with your antenna up here oh here she comes all right I love your costume can I read something to you guys and then we'll talk is that okay are you guys good listeners okay let's read this is all about insects celebrating Boulders pollinators and little creatures August and September 2023 you want to

[11:01] look over my shoulder here there are over 1 million known species of insects and other invertebrates on Earth including Boulders 550 species of native bees butterflies beetles flies grasshoppers training matters and countless other tiny creatures that maintain the health and beauty of our grasslands Forest Meadows Wetlands creeks and other natural areas by providing services such as pollination clean air and water waste removal and natural Pest Control these tiny creatures are indispensable Partners in the production of our food supply and they're essential for diverse and thriving ecosystems that support all life insects including critical pollinators are declining precipitously through the world due to habitat loss pesticide use and climate change this is our place in our food security natural environment and human well-being in peril we honor the legacy of those who came before us to protect the natural world and the outstanding beauty of Boulder we pledge to learn more about insects and

[12:00] other invertebrates to protect them and heal our land and strengthen our connection with each other by providing and joining together to share art music and series of workshops and events to inspire you got your stealing the show here dude our community to create Innovative and Equitable solutions to appropriate and protect pollinators and other little creatures as our community enjoys the Bountiful Autumn Harvest and we witness the general regeneration of our natural lands from the tireless work of these tiny creatures the city council of the city of Boulder I know this is long bear with me declares August and September 2023 as a time to celebrate and appreciate little creatures and commits to taking action in partnership with our community As We join together we protect all biodiversity for current and future Generations was that a little bit long what do you think what do you think of that that was a little long yeah we're all agree all right

[13:00] what can I ask you can I ask you what your name is Jackson do you have a favorite insector bug why roly-poly all right and what's your friend's name [Laughter] um ladybug that's nice like a butterfly you're a butterfly

[14:02] you have a favorite inside butterfly yeah oh you have a butterfly costume oh my God that's so beautiful that is so fantastic very nice very nice how about that oh that's fantastic [Music] well thanks to all the kids who helped us get that resolution put together and we hope to see you all out at the events that brella mentioned thank you [Applause] can we just adjourn the meeting after that I know I think it's all going to be downhill from here right well done that that was easily the most adorable thing that has ever happened on this dice thanks to all of our children

[15:01] pollinator supporters for coming and joining us that was really wonderful all right um and now moving to open comment if we could please uh and commenters you got a tough act to follow uh there but uh and if we could get the public participation guidelines please from Brenda oh I gotta follow that all right I don't even have an antenna um so we'll have to pretend um but thank you so much Emily for pulling up the slides my name is Brenda rittenauer I am with our communication and engagement team and it is my role in these meetings um to help remind us of our guidelines to make sure we stay in a productive atmosphere throughout the evening so we love to share with you that the city has engaged with community members to co-create a vision for productive meaningful and inclusive Civic conversation this Vision was designed to

[16:01] support physical and emotional safety for community members for staff and for council members and supports democracy for people of all ages identities lived experiences political perspectives and favorite bug choices for more information about this vision and the community engagement process you can visit our website bouldercolorado.gov and search for productive atmospheres in the search bar next slide please and it's this is where I have switched to paper because it gets too small on my screen the following are examples of rules of decorum found in the boulder Revised Code and other guidelines to support this Vision these will be upheld during tonight's meeting all remarks and testimony shall be limited to matters related to City business no participants shall make threats or use other forms of intimidation against any person obscenity racial epithets other speech

[17:00] and behavior that disrupts or otherwise impedes the ability to conduct the meeting are prohibited participants are required to sign up to speak using the name they're commonly known by and individuals must display their whole name before being allowed to speak online currently only audio testimony is permitted online in-person participants are asked to refrain from expressing support or disagreements verbally or with Applause obviously with the exception of the Declarations and the adorable recipients of declarations traditionally support is shown silently through American Sign Language Applause or sometimes we call it jazz hands and with that we can move into open comment thank you so much Brenda all right so we've got eight in-person speakers and four virtual speakers so call three names at a time if you can come up with your name is called please we've got Douglas bent Kristen Marshall and Evan ravitz Douglas

[18:03] good evening my name is Douglas bent I'm a resident at 1850 Folsom Street I'm also the president of the homeowners association there but I'm I hear tonight primarily is my my role as a resident I do a few slides here's a title slide and really uh I and many residents not over our building in the area are opposed to the location of the homeless daycare center at 1844 Folsom that's immediately adjacent to 1850. we feel in the selection of the site there's a great deal of emphasis placed on the centrality of the location for the people it intended to serve I.E the homeless but that inadequate consideration was given to Residents and businesses in the area um specifically there's been a lot of talk of how good the experiences have

[19:00] been at the North Boulder shelter or at the nest or other locations in the city in terms of not having a great deal of police activity but I point out those are not in the center Center Boulder so my next slide please so 1844 in 1854 summer that's between false and between Canyon and walnut and I'm sending the neighborhood to go to 26th Street well which is where the dairy Arts Center is and in that one sort of super block just the one super block of within a fairly narrow radius of the proposed location there have been 26 police incidents just in the last three weeks this is from the Boulder Boulder Police Department's dashboard series the incidents have been you know criminal mischief assaults breaking and entering

[20:02] indecent exposure they've also been a number of medical calls which there's a very little information given on those there have been five calls of that your time is up but if you could email us the rest of your comments please okay I did I just want to show the last slide which is showing the um number of children that used in park in that group and it's again we'll look at that in our email thank you for your testimony soon I have Kristen Marshall Evan rabbits and Patrick O'Rourke hi my name is Kristen Marshall 3 billion the canal lab of ornithology estimates that in the past 60 years we have lost about three billion native birds from

[21:02] North America if remember that on May 18th we had several children from Columbine speak to you what will their life look like when they are 65. how many birds will be left will it be in the words of Rachel Carlson A Silent Spring it is up to us to switch that behavior to stabilize a bird population what is one way we can do that by increasing bird habitat and migration routes or preserving them and in particular let's look at what is

[22:02] happening with the mitigation techniques that are proposed for the Goose Creek and Canyon to Mile Creek um let's preserve the existing wildlife and those areas let's preserve it for those children from Columbine let's preserve it for life thank you thank you Kristen Evan rabbits Patrick O'Rourke and Michelle Rodriguez hi tonight I'm talking about rotating the villain here's how it works mayor Brockett said for six years here that we should have a legal Campground for the homeless but since the 2021 election gave him a majority to do that

[23:02] instead he led the decision to spend over six million dollars the last two years on sweeps Aaron had six years for virtue's signaling using his musician's voice and Boulder baby talk to lull hopeful citizens into voting for him but to move up in the political world which he knows he wants since he tried for the state house he has to take a turn as the villain to maintain the status quo last week it was announced on the city hotline that instead of opening legal camps that worked so well in Denver that they're being greatly expanded we're going to hire another consultant which means we're back to 2017 when the city spent over two hundred thousand to hire homeless Consultants Back Then There Were officially 400 homeless in Boulder now there's 800 even

[24:01] though about 30 die each year you spent 6 million on sweeps in two years so at least 10 million since 2016. this made thousands more enemies vandalism crime throwing feces at cleanup Crews and wildfires have exploded so to stop you wasting another eight years hundreds of lives and 10 million or more dollars I'm announcing the soft launch of a never buy Boulder campaign if you don't have a camp open when the snow flies and the homeless die I'll make it a priority to starve your pretty talking killing machine citizens please watch the documentary all governments free on YouTube thank you now we have Patrick O'Rourke Michelle Rodriguez in Phoenix Lou I have a couple slides

[25:06] oh I'll get started good evening city council mayor Brockett first of all thank you for joining us last night at our membership meeting or party for historic Boulder preservation is not an accident in this town you know we're here to to work with the city you're going to see the this is a picture of Boulder and this is your East End bookend from 1940. uh it's it's the picture is larger you'll see that there's trains there but most importantly the Bandshell is there and to the south of the Bandshell is an open area the park the park is under review as we speak because in May of this year historic Boulder Friends of the Bandshell and the Tea House bought and put an application in for a Civic historic district it was delayed

[26:00] and it's delayed for a variety of reasons one reason was to do a CLA that's pretty supporting documentation there that that open land there was there in the 1940s and it's there today number two is the city we were hoping that the city council would be the city council that votes on the Civic historic district it's going to be delayed unfortunately we're working closely with the city staff and we truly believe that the landmark City staff is exceptional Marcy and Claire who's here today is working with historic Boulder and we're going to bring forward a proposal to go before the city council in February of next year we agreed to a 60-day extension with a tolling agreement and we think it was reasonable and we thank the city staff for doing it uh next slide if you would This concerns me one of the reasons that we want to be at the table is that is a picture of the Saddle Creek development

[27:00] on Boulder Creek at the mouth of Canyon that wall is over 10 feet tall it's a barrier it doesn't belong there it's over I walked it off tonight before I came here it's 450 feet long somebody dropped the ball and the bottom one on the right is the current there's 2 000 linear feet of chain behind this building thank you okay thank you Patrick Michelle Rodriguez Phoenix Lou and Charlie skira my guys always got a lot to say tonight I want to concentrate and focus and bring attention to Mental Health crisis that's going on here in Boulder I'd like to speak about a young man a friend of a son of a friend of mine his name is Trenton Dunham you might recognize that he made national attention with a three-county crime spree he's in the Boulder County Jail on a one million dollar Bond he's been deemed not

[28:01] competent as of September he will have been sitting there for two years he has had no mental health treatment they just put in a motion two months ago to dismiss a million dollars worth of charges and or give him a PR so that he could seek mental health he's being held he's sometimes getting his two hours a day out they denied that today and we learned today that he is number 91 on the list of people to get transferred out of here to the State Mental Hospital he's been there without his glasses he can't see in front of his face literally legally blind without him there's no conditions I guess for furloughs or uh any kind of rits for him to get out to get a current prescription they've been denying him that they denied him communication with his family his mother has just gotten to speak to him for about an hour just a couple weeks ago but that to me is the true definition of

[29:01] insanity they denied the motion to dismiss his bond or his charges or to give him a PR so that he could get mental health he now has a new court date set for October 26th and um and they're going to try to see about getting them some contacts and reader classes don't work his own public defender said you know of all the things you're worried about to his mother she said about his eyesight um I don't know about throwing anybody into blindness after they've lived being able to see on top of Mental Illness but literally has been deemed mentally incompetent and Phoenix Lou Charlie skira and Julie Van Damme charm turn the mic up a little bit i-l-o Phoenix illu ilu um the founder of Rising Phoenix Reiki and co-host of experience or Beyond

[30:01] Master trans channeling circles um I wanted to expand myself into a new space so this is the first time I'm stepping into more political atmosphere and I wanted to talk a little bit about my mission whole systems integration and my interest in learning more of um so I've put my about self back into school after 10 years I'm a single mom and I'm interested in learning more about local economies creating establishing and managing a an interplanetary network of biodynamic permaculture Eco centers I'm interested in looking at what it looks like to be able to revitalize both Landscapes and cities towns um all different areas of human life and um the more I'm stepping into my own

[31:00] healing business after 10 years of really trying to work to get there I am starting to see the opportunities for integration between healing and the lifestyle that our modern day world especially in America offers and so I'm just putting myself out there to um learn more and step into a new space and be able to bring forward the ideas and things that I as a Visionary have held for a very very long time within myself so I just wanted to come up and share and now that I was finally able to integrate my own self moved from South Boulder to North Boulder so it's been hard to get here but um yeah I was just happy to come and speak so thank you for listening to me and yeah thank you Phoenix

[32:00] I have Charlie skeura Julie Van Damme do we have Charlie in the room Charlie Charlie Julie that puts you up next good evening I'm Julie van damlin I'm the executive director at effa the emergency family assistance association and as you know we're one of the core safety net agencies serving our community and I come to you tonight as the canary in the coal mine what we are seeing are levels of need that we have never seen at effort before prior to the covid we had about 300 households need food in the food bank a week we're over 600 now week after week we cannot keep up with rental assistance we're seeing the highest numbers of family homelesses that we've ever seen in our community and all of this is at a stage where the safety net is not enough and we come to you to ask you

[33:01] to make action on the minimum wage you all came into office stating that you were interested in raising the minimum wage a year and a half ago the boulder Consortium of cities was supposed to set in place a process to look at that county-wide and since then it's been crickets until we heard that the new plan is to lag it until 2025. so I don't think that meets the moment right now there's about 10 percent of jobs in Boulder County that make less than fifteen dollars an hour uh at effa we did a survey a couple months ago and about 25 percent of the people that need our services make less than fifteen dollars an hour from a racial Equity lens it's over 40 percent for Spanish-speaking people that use our services so it's it's time and what I suggest I know that there is a long way to go to get where you probably want to go but I ask that you consider making the first step a down payment on equity and to address the

[34:00] moment of Crisis that we're seeing to raise the minimum wage 15 January 2024 and then set a path for outer years you have time to do a consultative process and we don't have time to wait it's really quite um crucial at this moment thank you Julie sure we have a question Julie we have a question for you oh well two minutes goes by really fast it does yeah I just had a question Julie so you know one of the things we talked about when we had this discussion was wanting to go together as a region is there anyone else who's talking about moving forward in 2024 versus 2025. I'm probably not the one to ask um but I know the County Commissioners are interested in the unincorporated parts of Boulder County but there's nothing that stops you from saying let's make that first step let's try and and adjust right now in our city that's so expensive and then

[35:01] pull everyone together catch up take a pause year While others catch up I mean I really think there's no credibility anymore of saying yes we're going to get all together and everyone on board before we make a move because I've been hearing that for two and a half years now so all right thanks we're gonna go to our remote speakers now our first three are Pete Carney Lynn Siegel and Tim Thomas good evening can you hear me yes cool I'm Pete Carney and I would like to discuss the bus system here in Boulder we have fairly good lines but they don't learn frequently enough for people to rely on them which limits their usefulness I want to focus on how improving this will help us towards some of our most important goals to be a win-win for everyone the first is our vision zero goal more frequent and reliable bus lines will encourage more people to use the bus instead of your car less cars on the road will lead to less opportunities for

[36:00] accidents this won't by itself get this division zero but it would be a big help the second is climate change this one is fairly obvious but having less cars on the road leads to less CO2 emissions and climate change is an issue that we need to address immediately if we want to solve it the third is equity I'm someone who has been able to own a car most of my life but not everyone has this option there are many here who can't afford a car and they rely on public transit daily because of things like disabilities weather and distance walking and biking are not always feasible options by having this lackluster bus system we prioritize car driving over public transit which is prioritizing those of us who own a car over those who don't also a better bus system also improves car driving for anyone who still choosing less cars on the road leads to less traffic for people to deal with I hear lots of discussion on reducing parking and disincentivizing driving but instead of only making driving and

[37:01] parking worse options we should incentivize use of the bus system by improving it to the point that more people will choose to use it thanks for your time thank you Pete now we have Lynn Siegel Tim Thomas and Emily Reynolds well it's all about money isn't it and like Lynn always says let the developers pay that's the problem in Boulder I see more parking reductions High limitation increases and then my catalytic converter gets stolen how do these two things connect more people desperate for funds it's all in the system more crime so it's it's not um it's not sustainable

[38:01] and meantime you know we own Alpine Balsam site and we're going to have a big development there and the drugstore across the street leaves there's no zoning requirement for a drugstore I thought we were supposed to have 15-minute neighborhoods isn't Zoning for particular types of businesses part of a 15-minute neighborhood and you know speaking of 15-minute neighborhoods we've got one that's a whole city within itself at so close water view 55th and Arapahoe it's a huge City that's what's called sprawl that's like 213. that's what Jared is trying to avoid and it's definitely sprawl it's sprawl of a whole new city and there's garages

[39:02] in every unit and there's 300 some units that's not the kind of development that Boulder needs and it's anchored with a brew Hub that's a problem reinstate Caroline Miller or all of your boards are at threat done thanks Lynn I have Tim Thomas and Emily Reynolds this is Tim Thomas can you hear me yes my name is Tim Thomas I'm a board member of Boulder housing Partners resident representative council we are a separate a group of residents we started uh in my complex in another complex a senior complex that I was visiting we started receiving our uh yearly lease addendums and a very disturbing thing has happened the paperwork gives us an option of

[40:00] whether we want annual leases or month-to-month leases the month-to-month leases were already checked not only that but the paperwork was dated January 3rd we received it on January excuse me not January 3rd July 3rd we received it on July 26 and in many cases the paperwork said it was due on the 26th my mother's paperwork was dated July 3rd and said that it was due on July 1st um so we have contacted a BHP the upper management we've asked them to bring us new paperwork uh I haven't gotten any yet I don't think my neighbor has gotten any yet and this is the city of Boulders Housing Authority uh council member Wallach actually serves on the on the uh to even realize we're losing you Tim can

[41:00] you hear me we were you were fading out for a minute okay so long story short uh BHP was uh getting this paperwork telling us that we had the choice of whether we had an annual lease or month-to-month lease and the paperwork for month to month has already been checked out a lot of people didn't realize they're mistaken they've already handed it back can you please contact BHP tell them to give us the correct paperwork that does not have the check mark and lets us choose annual leases as opposed to month to month it was a very I don't know it just doesn't seem right um I'm holding the paperwork until they give us new ones thank you very much and I hope uh you'll do something about this thanks Tim our last speaker tonight is Emily Reynolds good evening Council media activists and Council make false assumptions about landlord Behavior related to council's

[42:00] desire to increase occupancy I don't think a majority of residents agree with that stance the fiction goes like this an additional person in a home would allow tenants to split the rent another way and make rents cheaper the obvious flaw the rent will remain unchanged if the landlord rents to more people that's fantasy bedrooms are for people failed partly as there was no mechanism to require affordability voters saw through this a house renting to three for forty five hundred a month at 1500 each would rent for six thousand per month uh at 1500 each if rented to four people or for 7 500 if this Council allows five people families will be priced out any proposal that doesn't require affordability is profoundly unlikely to create it what

[43:00] are the effects on water infrastructure and transportation if more and more unrestrained occupancy is allowed planning board was mixed on this passing it by only one vote virtually all college towns have occupancy limits to maintain order Boulder's recent survey of occupancy in 60 college towns showed that 60 percent allow only three or fewer unrelated people and 38 percent only allowed two unrelated people so the argument that Boulders occupancy limit of three unrelated persons is unusual is completely erroneous instead staff continues to rely on the wildly unscientific be heard poll which could be answered 100 or 1 000 Times by one person please heed the people's vote against bedrooms people which was an actual genuine reference referendum Emily your time is up thank you for your

[44:01] testimony and that brings open comment to a close I'll turn to staff for any responses the much mayor as always we appreciate everyone sharing their voices and we'll certainly be following up on a couple of things I know that later on this evening we'll be talking about the external evaluation of homelessness services and programs I also know that staff continues to um talk with area stakeholders about the day Services Center I know Parks is looking at activation of the parks I know HHS and please continue to think about strategies and we want to make sure that we are supporting our entire Community as we move forward and then lastly I'll say that in um I'll say that we are aware I'm in receipt of an email that Mr Thomas sent us regarding BHP leases I know that HHS has it as well and will follow up no

[45:01] need to follow up Kurt if you don't we can do that by email but just wanted to say we're aware and don't know if you wanted to add anything else but no need if you do not feel the case don't you love when you're on the spot uh good evening Council Kurt fernhauber with housing human services so um after receiving Mr Thomas's email I did reach out to BHP today um to understand his concerns better so it's it's a typical practice um for um after the first year um uh typically affordable housing residents get a one-year lease on their first year it automatically turns to a month to month after that they can um if they wish and desire they can also have a full year release as well with the change in the state law there's not a whole lot of difference because you can with the state law you can actually get out of a a one-year lease without paying penalties

[46:00] it's actually advantageous for residents to have a one-month lease because of their life changes and they want to um you know go into another unit it gives them easier flexibility to do that increases in rent are done on a on a schedule so whether you're on an annual lease or month-to-month lease there's no impact on that so I don't know if you have any further questions but you can email them as well thank you anything from Council Tara and then Nicole I just want to say Aaron that I'm sorry that you were berated by a Community member tonight and I know how tirelessly you work for this community this to me public comment and Community engagement are the most important thing if I had a birthday wish it would be I do have a birthday wish that we can make our points with passion but perhaps a

[47:01] little bit nicer not putting each other down so that's my birthday wish thanks thanks Tara and if I could just call a clue if you don't mind Nicole that just speaking to Mr Rabbits we will be talking about additional solution for people experiencing homelessness later on tonight we have a study session on safe outdoor spaces in September I believe it is so at least to talk about the notion so continue continue to be in the works on these things Nicole [Music] for your birthday wish I I appreciate it and yeah Aaron hope you're doing okay um I just wanted to mention the person who was talking about the buses and um what we can do to increase bus ridership and um you know we don't have as much control over service but RTD did just allow us to uh or not allow but 19 and under are going to ride free So for anybody who is age 19 or under that vote

[48:01] did pass you will be able to ride free also other passes are decreasing pretty substantially for the year ahead so hopefully that will help more folks make use of the services as our TV starts bringing back more services to Boulder local and thanks RTD for those changes just a real quick up maybe a PSA as I'm on my way off this dice I am trying to help us as a city to really focus on our lane and and the things that cities do and also to encourage people to reach out like in in the case that Nicole just mentioned to RTD if it's something that's more rtd's Lane make sure that you're also reaching out to them because it's great for us to know but we don't make the bus routes likewise somebody mentioned jail and mental health and maybe some some more Behavioral Health Services that the county might want to take up so I want to just recommend you could also go and speak to the County

[49:00] Commissioners who do have you know we don't have a health department that is the County's Lane so um just flagging for the community that there are other agencies that also it's great to flag some of these concerns for because because sometimes it's not quite our lane or domain thanks Rachel do you have an email address for the County Commissioners does anyone all search I want to point out you still have four months left so don't just try and walk off the stage earlier anything else seeing none at least if we can go to our consent agenda please yes sir thank you our consent agenda is item three tonight and it consists of items 3A through 3E any comments or questions on a consent agenda I got Bob and then Rachel maybe this is a Carl geiler who's only 3B that Brad at you

[50:03] three this is uh the occupancy I'm sorry the occupancy um on first reading item 3B yes good evening Brad Mueller director of planning and development services uh thanks Brad um Brad I I just want to make sure that I understood 3B I'm going to be voting against it tonight but I but I I want to first uh very much be grateful to you and your staff for the comedy in the crest of council a few weeks ago of of taking a look at the not confirming use areas um and and maybe perhaps carving those out of an occupancy increase so that's the will of council I did want to ask a question so thank you for that and a question I think the ordinances in front of us 85.85 follows your option A which is to make that non-conforming use exception city-wide is that correct correct I think that's all I had okay thanks Rachel yeah my I think this is the right time to say that I need to disclose uh as to 3B the occupancy issues I do have a

[51:02] short-term rental license and a Community member wrote into Council that those of us who are have have rental properties maybe should recuse so I have investigated and do not believe that my having Airbnb my home out some five nights over the last four years compromises my ability to remain impartial so I will not be recusing anything else or emotion don't need crickets I'll make a motion to pass the consent agenda second okay we got a motion a second any further discussion or any discussion on the motion yeah as Bob brought up occupancy at second reading we'll be having a public hearing on this so just so people want to come out and talk and express their desires one way or the other public hearing will be a good chance so um know that that's coming two weeks from tonight August 17th August 17th

[52:00] don't miss it did you have something okay we've got a motion and a second if we can do a roll call please evolution thank you we'll start the roll call for the consent agenda with yes Joseph yes yes thank you fear yes mayor Pro Tim Walling yes but no on 3B thank you sir council member wire yes but no on 3B Yates uh yes but no one 3B thank you Benjamin yes mayor Brockett yes council member Folkers yes the consent agenda items a through e are

[53:02] hereby approved unanimously with the dudeley noted Nays of 3B from council member weiner Yates and mayor Pro tem Walling Alicia can we do our cult chickens now please thank you sir call up check-ins are item number four on tonight's agenda 4A is the extension of call up period and landmark alteration certificate to remove a fence at the property north of 200 galadaria Lane in the Chautauqua Park historic district pursuant to section 9-11-18 of the boulder Revised Code 1981. any interest in calling this map I'm not seeing any can go to the next one please item 4B is the site review amendment to amend the orchard PUD to expand the property at 1576 Hawthorne Avenue to include adjacent common area this is reviewed under case number lur

[54:01] 20-2022-00024 I'm gonna call this one up seen any interest to the next one please item 4C is the use review for a 7062 square foot patio expansion of a restaurant use with Associated landscape improvements at 4910 and 4920 knotless Court North this is reviewed under case number lur 2022-00028 in this one seeing none that's it for our call-ups so if we can move to our first public hearing please yes sir thank you our public hearings are item five on tonight's agenda 5A is the extension of call up period I'm sorry reading the wrong thing my apologies

[55:00] too many papers my apologies sir thank you 5A is the second reading and consideration of a motion to adopt ordinance 8580 designating the property at 8 30 14th Street city of Boulder Colorado to be known as the powers house as an individual Landmark under chapter 9-11 historic preservation BRC 1981 and setting forth the related details we'll go straight to staff on this one thank you Marcy Soul um let's see if we could go oh I have the next slide okay I'll first start with the procedure first we'll start with Council revealing any ex parte contacts then I'll give a staff presentation followed by any questions Council may have the owner will then have a chance to present I believe they are listening in but don't plan to speak this evening and then following that the public

[56:01] hearing is open for public comment followed by Council questions um then the public hearing is closed and Council discusses an emotion requires an affirmative vote of at least five members to pass the motion so I'll turn it back over to mayor for ex parte contacts okay do we have any ex parte context seeing none I'll send it back to you Mercy awful um before I begin I would just like to thank the property owner for nominating their house as an individual Landmark it's actually already designated in the University Place historic district but they wanted to recognize it individually and I'd also like to thank Claire Brandt who's here the other historic preservation planner who did a remarkable job in the history of of this application so the criteria for your decision tonight is found in section 911 and 911 2 of the boulder Revised Code and that is that the proposed designation will

[57:00] preserve protect and enhance historically significant buildings and sites or architectural styles of the past and to develop and maintain appropriate settings to enhance property values stabilize neighborhoods promote tourist trade and interest and Foster knowledge of the city's living history the options in front of you tonight are to either approve the designation by ordinance modify and approve the designation or deny the designation this application began in March of this year when the property owner submitted an application to designate their property as an individual Landmark the landmarks board unanimously recommended that Council approved the designation at their hearing on May 3rd and then it was on the first reading for the consent agenda in June 5th on June 15th and then here we are this evening in August for the public hearing this property is located on the east side of 14th between Aurora and Cascade in the University Place historic

[58:02] district which is just south or sorry just north of Baseline in University Hill it is a Craftsman Bungalow built in 1920 and is remarkably in intact to its original construction here are a few photos going around the house notably it's a side gabled form with a front Dormer and helical Piers or tapered peers which are typical of Craftsman bungalow houses in terms of its historic significance its significance for its 1920 date of construction and its association with Kate mayhoffer powers and Patrick Powers in family and Patrick Powers was a prominent Miner who had interest in a Weld County in the Shamrock mine and he didn't live in the house it was mostly occupied for a long time by his wife

[59:00] Kate and so the name is intended to recognize both of the owners it's significant for the development of the community as part of the University Place historic district which was designated in 2006 and it is identified as a contributing resource to that historic district in terms of its architectural significance it's recognized as an excellent example of the Craftsman Bungalow style we don't know who the original architect or Builder is but it's possible that the fellow who owned the property the year before it was built and built other houses in the neighborhood his name was Alonso denim it's possible that he constructed the house it has artistic Merit for its Craftsman detailing demonstrating masonry and vernacular design skill and in terms of its entire environmental significance it's within an already designated historic district so that retains a high level of Integrity it's consistent with the compatibility of the

[60:01] existing neighborhood and it's centrally located within the University Place historic district the proposed boundary follows the property lines which is best practices and the proposed name is the powers house recognizing Kate and Pat powers so with that staff and the landmarks board recommend that Council designate the property at 8 30 19 or 8 30 14th Street um to be known as the powers house as an individual landmark and with that I'm happy to answer any questions you may have thanks so much any questions we're a little light on the dice here at the moment we're gonna have to get some people back to have a vote so um I understand that this would be the owner's chance to speak but they're turning down that opportunity right I think they're listening in but opted not to speak this evening very good then let's go ahead and open our public

[61:01] hearing we have one speaker Lynn Siegel Lynn you've got three minutes sorry Lynn give me just one moment to get your microphone my screen is not popping up okay here we go of course you want to Landmark this of course I don't even know why it came all the way to council because 777 Circle didn't even make it to the landmarks board and it was the architect they knew James Hunter who designed you know the Masonic temple which is now the museum Boat Museum of Boulder um Baseline Junior High you know the municipal building like James Hunter this was a James Hunter 771

[62:00] Circle and it swept through ldrc without a hitch nothing demoed 6.1 million dollars flagstone like all the James Hunters with two other houses nearby a Charles Hartland that Linda jorgensten had who was a mayor of Boulder or a council member I don't remember and a usonian that was also a James Hunter the only house on the way up Flagstaff within three houses of it it is demoed unbelievable you need to open up ldrc to be recorded because I can't go back to the recording and see what the heck happened there this is a dark place in Boulder's history when you can hide ldrc proceedings so Lynn um we're talking

[63:00] about 8 30 14th Street tonight did you want to speak to that topic yep we sure are and that's an example of the fact that I can't trust the landmarks board at all now because LDS ldrc is not recorded now I agree that this place should be Landmark clearly you know it's a Craftsman a great place um but I don't trust Landmark Sport and that's a big problem for the city of Boulder big problem um this is just not okay to go on like this ldrc has to be recorded it is no longer administrative when we had a James Hunter take him down that just swung through ldrc without even being referred to landmarks board much less the city council now I'm sure you're going to go ahead and landmark this place but what about 777

[64:00] Circle my God I can't believe what this city does it's so inappropriate done thanks Lynn so that brings us to the close of our speaker list so we'll close the public hearing and bring it back to city council for a discussion would anyone like to address the landmarking matter before us or maybe even make a motion it's right up on there too all right let's go for it uh make a motion to adopt ordinance 8580 designating the property at 830 14th Street city of Boulder Colorado to be known as the powers house as an individual Landmark under the city of Boulders historic preservation ordinance second

[65:00] got a motion a second that you all want to speak to that at all okay um yes Lauren I just wanted to thank the owners for bringing this forward as an option for us calling myself and second that thank you to the owners and also Marcy for your excellent analysis of the historical qualities available and with that do we need a roll call in the Sealy show let's let's go forever yes sir thank you we'll start the roll call for item five a with councilmember Joseph yes yes spear yes mayor Pro Tim Wallick yes council member weiner yes Yates yes Benjamin yes mayor Brockett yes councilmember fulcrates yes

[66:00] and friend yes ordinance 85-80 is hereby adopted unanimously very good thanks again Mercy all right if we can move to our second public hearing please and hopefully we don't have to read every word that's in the agenda hey I got it down to a science all right all right all right second public hearing is item 5B on tonight's agenda it is the second reading and consideration of emotion to adopt the following ordinances related to the 2023 ballot measures of the city our first ordinance is 85.86 related to the petition of safe zones for children I'm sorry safe zones for kids our second item Ordnance is 85.87 which is related to Charter changes related to election

[67:01] procedures item three a is the ordinance 8588 related to the extension of the 0.15 sales tax extension item 3B is the alternate ordinance 8591 related to the 0.15 City sales tax extension and item four is related to 85.89 the question of the extension of the 0.15 sales tax related to the arts for Boulder petition that was fairly succinct for all that um I want to thank staff there's been a lot of Staff behind the scenes working on a variety of these items but for now we will send this over to our Deputy City attorney Aaron Pope thank you good evening mayor and members of council Aaron Poe Deputy City attorney I will be the main presenter

[68:01] tonight though I have backup with Alicia Johnson our city clerk John Morse our elections administrator and Cara Skinner our Chief Financial Officer next slide please tonight we have five measures for Council consideration my plan is to break the format into two halves in the first half we have the safe zones for kids initiative and Charter amendments which propose changes in the city clerk election processes then I'll pause and have questions on those measures in the second half we have three measures relating to the extension of a 0.15 percent sales and use tax there is a petition measure a conflicting City measure and a compromise measure and then we'll have questions again at the end next slide please all right the safe zones for kids petition is ordinance 8586 and it proposes adding a subsection C to Boulder Revised Code

[69:02] 8-3-21 that would prioritize removal of prohibited items such as tents and propane tanks on city-owned property within a radius of 500 feet from any point on a school property line or within 50 feet on both sides of any multi-use path or sidewalk in order to have the same go Dart date for all ballot items staff recommends no action on this item tonight it would move forward to August 17th for final Action Council does also have the option of adopting this language as an ordinance in lieu of placing it on the ballot next slide please all right and then our Charter Amendment measure is ordinance 8587 this would amend sections 27 37 39 46 and 57 of the boulder Homeworld Charter the Amendments would have the goal of giving the city clerk additional time to

[70:01] perform election duties and would also remove the requirement that people who wish to sign petitions in support of mayoral or city council candidates do so in person before the city clerk the clerk would have five additional days to process petitions and the deadline to submit signatures moves from 150 days before an election to 160 days the Amendments would also clarify that it is state law that governs the process to amend the city's Charter in next slide please so our next steps reflect the preference of having one go dark date of August 17th for all ballot items the go dark date is the date that a ballot title is fixed and after which city resources cannot be used to fund Express advocacy so for our safe zones for kids Ordnance 8586 staff recommends no action tonight and that this item be brought back to

[71:01] Council on August 17th for final action and for Charter amendments ordinance 8587 staff also recommends no action tonight and that the item be brought back to council August 17th for final action all right and are there there questions on these first two measures well you know I think I'd know what you mean Aaron but I want to make sure they're all on the same page when you say no action on these two items I know you're going to maybe recommend something similar for some of the other ballot measures in a second you still propose we have a public hearing tonight but then that we continue the public hearing and take our vote on second reading on those two items on August 17th is that correct that's correct it could be this is the public hearing the time for a public to address it it is legislative so having the hearing tonight I believe that they could be passed on consent on August 17th right so public hearing but no vote correct great thank you any other questions

[72:00] seeing none thanks Aaron you can move to the next section please okay and on the second half we have an extension of a 0.15 sales and use tax as background the current tax expires December 31st 2024 it was last approved by voters in November 2003. its general purpose is described as to fund fire police Human Services Library Services Arts and Cultural programs parks and other general fund services and the tax revenue is expected to be 7.25 million dollars in 2024. looks like please please thank you we have three task extension measures the first is ordinance 8589 which is sponsored by the petition group arts for Boulder it would earmark 100 percent of tax revenue for Arts cultural and Heritage purposes second we have ordinance 8588 which is

[73:02] the staff proposal and has been drafted drafted to conflict with the arts for Boulder petition it would extend the current general purpose tax and dedicate 100 of tax revenue to the general fund and third we have ordinance 8591 which is a compromise ordinance that would split the tax revenue 50 to the general fund 50 to Arts cultural and Heritage programs the arts for Boulder petitioners have proposed language amendments to their measure 8589 and the compromise measure 8591 these changes are supported by staff and in the next slide we'll talk about those a little bit more staff met with representatives from the arts for Boulder committee to discuss the ordinances is part of the charter section 48 requirement to seek input from an initiative committee prior to council setting the ballot title the petitioners requested that the city council consider minor amendments to the

[74:01] ballot question related to the initiated petition and the compromise tax question on the title related to the petitioner's measure 8589 the committee requested that the format of the question be reorganized to be consistent with the other tax extension measures considered by Council they requested moving the language and all earnings thereon retained and used as a voter approved Revenue change under Colorado Constitution Article 10 section 20 and any other laws limiting the receipt or expenditure of revenues to the end of the question they also requested a modification to the language describing the revenue earmark to more clearly describe its purpose for the compromise compromise measure 8591 the committee requested a modification of the language describing the revenue earmark to more clearly describe the purpose and more succinctly staff believes that the requested

[75:00] amendments meet the legal requirements of four battle title ballot titles should Council decide to pass these amendments next slide please so there are two options that staff recommends Council consider moving forward the first would be to move forward with two conflicting tax extension measures which would be the petitioners 8589 with one hundred percent of funds going to cultural and arts purposes and the staff Proposal 8588 with 100 of Revenue to the general fund if conflicting measures appear on the ballots by Charter the question that passes with the highest number of votes becomes law option two is the compromise ordinance 8591 which would split tax proceeds 50 percent to the general fund 50 to Arts cultural and Heritage programming if the compromise option is pursued it

[76:00] would require the cooperation of the Arts for Boulder committee to withdraw their petition in both options Council will need to decide if it will pass the Amendments requested by the committee of the petitioners next slide please so for next steps regardless of the option chosen by Council staff recommends the following that Council take no action for staff recommended ordinance 8588 that would be one hundred percent of tax revenue to the general fund that item would move to August 17th for final action that Council amend and pass on second reading the petitioner's ordinance 8589 with 100 going to Arts culture and Heritage programming and amend and pass on second reading the compromise ordinance 8591 under this proposal by staff all three ordinances would move to final action on August 17th pending council's decision

[77:01] and the status of the petition if Council elects to move forward with the compromise option the committee of the petitioners must withdraw its petition and then the compromise ordinance would be finally passed if the committee of petitioners did not withdraw its petition then council could still move forward with the two conflicting ordinances 8588 and 8589 if on the other hand Council decides to move forward with the conflicting ordinances 858 and 8589 then the compromise ordinance there would be no final action taken on August 17th and that is the end of my presentation and I will stop again for questions one with Bob I've got one for Aaron and um and then one for probably the finance team do you want me to just do the one for Aaron right now and then hold off in finance sure okay so Erin um that was all very clear so thank you

[78:01] very much um I know it's kind of confusing so thank you for organizing that for us very welcome the one question I have is we did receive a note from one of the um the leaders of the Arts organization today indicating that there was their intention to not withdraw the petition until after August 17. um and so we have a little bit of a conflict there uh obviously if they do before August 17th and then we have some clear decisions to make if they if they want to withdraw it after they see us move let's say for example the compromise ordinance forward on the 17th and then for some reason they didn't withdraw would we have time to fall back to the Alternatives I guess we'd have to call a special meeting or something like that because we were up against the county clerk deadline right that's correct I believe the county clerk deadline and Alicia please correct me but if I'm wrong is September 8th so I believe there would be one final potential meeting where council could take action to repeal anything that needed to be repealed if the petition

[79:00] was not withdrawn just to clarify uh Council excuse me councilman Yates the September 8th deadline date is the date we have to have it to the county right so you really need to pass it before then exactly okay I know one of the representatives of the um of the petitioners is here to speak of public comments so maybe you can talk about whether they intend to file the withdrawal before or after the 17th because I think it does affect our procedure right correct I would recommend keeping as many options available for as long as you can okay thanks I'll have a question but we I can park it Aaron later on just for the finance team around how this would all work but I'll say that for later great I got Matt Rachel and myself Bob asked my question about the Cadence on withdrawal so thanks are we still being asked to change some title language for any of the measures yes the arts for Boulder petition

[80:00] committee has requested changes to 8589 which is their petition measure and to 8591 which is the compromise measure so you may recall that we were asked to change a ballot title a year or so ago and did not and said we could not so is there a distinction here that would be relevant to explain yes and I'll turn it over to our City attorney thanks for the question so the difference here is that last year we were considering a referendum and this year we're considering an initiative under this City's Charter an initiative requires consultation with the petitioners and so that consultation falls under the section of the charter that describes what a ballot title must contain and that it must contain and forgive me I'm not going to quote it exactly correctly but a clear and concise statement supported by facts and not argument and so that

[81:02] consultation is in furtherance of setting a ballot title no such Authority is granted to the city council for a referendum and so that's why last year you were unable to change a title because you didn't have the authority to do so where here you do because it's an initiative thank you that was very clear Theresa thanks so much I'll call on myself and then or Nicole do you want to go ahead yeah I just wanted to clarify that you'd like us to wait if we've got some kind of Finance related questions yeah well let's handle those here in a minute and stick to our ballot measure process question so Aaron a question for you in terms of what you're recommending on amending and passing on the second readings and I just uh you're saying that we should pass 85-91 you know as part of that process and I just wonder if perhaps we might consider only passing 85.91 if that's the will of counsel for to put that on the ballot rather than the Alternatives it feels

[82:02] like maybe we potentially we make that decision tonight rather than on the 17th but I wanted to get your your thought on that you could do that and and we did think of proposing it that way however passing it on second reading tonight passing and amending it would not uh would still require a third reading to finalize it so I think that's a preference of counsel if you prefer to take it off the table tonight you don't have to pass it if you want to keep that door open you could move it on where it would need a third reading sure this is a sort of connected question to that um and and I say this out into the ether to the arts for Boulder folks in particular uh one of them's here is if we were to scrub the other two .15 ordinances and only move forward with the compromise might that be enough of a gesture of moving forward from which we could alleviate that sort of scheduling bind we get into with regards to the

[83:00] withdrawal of the petition maybe after the third reading and say look this now this is the only one on the table we're all in this together and maybe there might be a withdrawal on the front end so we don't get into that sticky situation with the 17th so I don't know if that's a viable place to go but I'm wondering if we can kind of be in good faith there I I won't speak to their interpretation of that but yes if you did not move those forward tonight it would not be your last opportunity to do so if we needed to do it because the petition was something broke down and it was not withdrawn I'm sure it would not be Alicia's first choice but we could find another meeting and call a special meeting great thanks for that Erin and so I'll ask Council for their Direction when we get to our deliberations but just I guess um one thought is to potentially make our decisions tonight so that the 17th can be quick and easy potentially uh okay so that's um it for questions on these slides did

[84:01] you want to continue Aaron but those were all the slides that I had great in that case I think we have some Finance related questions so maybe we can invite our finance team up above if you want to start I mean you can just come up just want to identify yourself sure Mark well a budget officer Cara Skinner Chief Financial Officer good evening good evening thanks guys hey um we've had a few members of the community who are maybe more on the Human Services side of things Express um to some of us some concern that if we did adopt the compromise measure which would have about half of the general fund a tax extension going to um arts in the other half staying with the general fund and I know that none of this goes into effect till January 1 2025 right uh the concern that that was expressed that maybe I would like invite you to address is

[85:00] um do you feel I know you're looking into a crystal ball a year and a half from now do you feel that if um there was that increase in funding for the Arts with the 50 50 compromise that would still be adequate funding based on what you know now um to continue to support our various Human Services programs I'll take a crack at that as so I think as we mentioned before um budgeting is tough our choices are very tough I think to be clear based on what we're putting together for the 2024 budget and we'll dive into in Earnest um in a few weeks from now we're not anticipating that the compromise would force us into any reductions direct Cuts I think we're we're the concern that we have raised in May and June is just with all of the needs and certainly Human Services being one of those key areas in community restricted funds in general limit our ability to address those emerging needs so I think it's a long

[86:00] answer to say we don't anticipate any sort of direct reduction but certainly it makes our choices that much more incrementally difficult thanks any other Finance questions yeah cool yep I've got so one of the questions that I had was just around let's go above what we're talking about here right so we're talking about 20 years of a point my one five percent tax so what's sort of the amount that you would expect over 20 years so we anticipate our initial estimate was about seven and a half million dollars for the 0.15 that that was an average of our five-year projection so if you just took that out over 20 years generate about 150 million over the life of the tax okay so um and in our typical budget process if we were going to allocate 150 million dollars to a specific program within a specific

[87:01] Department what would the engagement process typically look like for something like that it's a good question I I think with any significant investment we typically have robust engagement we're working on it on the budget process which we'll talk about uh a bit later this year I think a good example is with ccrs comes to mind is a significant Capital Tax and that's over many many years but certainly a lot of Engagement with community and identifying total need and determining what ultimately the the top projects were as a part of that investment and so similar as we're looking at any other sort of major investment as engaging with Community understanding total need and trying to do some type of prioritization thank you um and one of the things that I've been hearing from community members is well we've got the money that's freed up from the library district which you know seems Seems like it should be a significant amount um can you talk a little bit about about that and if that sort of money

[88:02] that's available to tap into sure it does help so about 9.2 million for 2023 was made available because of the creation of the library district as we've talked about with Council before in May and June we have tapped into those funds to to fund some key Council and Community priorities it includes the behavioral health or CARE program that's about 1.8 million dollars projected in 2024 day Services Center that's projected at around 1.6 million in 24 we also tapped that resource for Alpine Balsam so anticipating some Debt Service or partnership dollars that we'll need to program within the general fund and then we suggested back in May I believe to hold the rest of those funds in case something happened with the 0.15 right so we never anticipate voter action so if it were not to be renewed or if if it

[89:00] were to be dedicated for another purpose so that's kind of the the constraints that we face within the Library resources and it and it helps kind of cover a 50 50 compromise portion and then as I mentioned and addressing council member Yates question our choices then kind of become pinched or difficult as we move into 25 and beyond that but certainly the library dollars help us address those those initiatives those resources that we talked about thank you and then one of my other questions was around um just the the why some of the the um organizations that had been getting funded by these arts and culture grants did not and I don't know if this is maybe more of a question for you Matt but um you know I I thought that in our 2023 budget we had increased the budget for the Arts grants by like 20 or so in that when we had taken money from some of the

[90:00] funds that we'd set aside for doing energy assistance for low-income families and and things of that nature so I'm I'm just curious about how come they still have not gotten funding even with Arts funding increasing over the years uh thank you councilmember uh Matt justanski with the office of arts and culture and um there was an increase in funding to fill some gaps um that uh the scoring that the Arts commission did around the grants program um they scored several organizations high but there wasn't enough money to fund and especially the general operating support category or big category and so that funding did indeed expand the number of grants that went out and so many organizations did receive funding five organizations did receive funding through that and I want to point out also with the additional allocations from the arpa grant we were able to mobilize some more grants so I'm not quite sure about the Gap that's mentioned but there was additional funding that did went out and it did fill the gaps that the Arts

[91:00] commission noticed our cultural plan very soon right um is there anything about that update process that you think might change the nature of how we do these grants so I mean it just did occurs to me if we move forward with putting just a single ballot measure on that is a 50 50 split one of the things we're doing is not just locking ourselves into funding but also into a specific program kind of type type of program as well do you see anything coming up that might change how we would want to do that in the next couple decades that would potentially be problematic being locked into not just funding but also a program well I don't want to comment on what the outcome of the vote might be but I will say that over the course of the first nine years of the cultural plan um there have been some things that we've noticed that have been enormously successful that we think should move on and some things that we could probably

[92:01] improve but overall the grants program has been very successful there's been great outcomes and so I would say that the conditions in you know the the cultural sector lead us to believe that will largely continue the way that we have been thank you appreciate Nicole making some questions but just to sort of maybe clarify um with regards to sort of Engagement I I would expect to Matt let's make a question for you um that like with and sort of connects to two things um with just about any department and who gets a dedicated any dedicated money would be parks open space you name it the master planning process is the vehicle from which we Define engagement and we set that community and collaborative vision for the next 10 years for what we do with that money as it serves that Community is that is that just correct I just want to make sure that there's nothing different about how this money's set aside for the Arts and how we engage the community with then how we use that money is that correct

[93:01] um as far as cultural Affairs goes you might come along I apologize um as far as the off sorts and culture goes are the cultural Affair plan goes that um it's an advisory guideline I can't speak to what might require us because of a dedicated tax I don't know if you want to speak to that but um that the cultural plan that exists now um was had deep Community inquiry and we follow that because it's um it was a vision of the community and that's something we wanted to fulfill not because of any sort of regulatory thing that I'm wearing but fantastic okay great no that answers the question appreciate it thank you any other questions uh mark thank you um that was a great presentation um I I'd like to ask a question just one of the finance people um you've said that you can handle the choices that would have to be made with respect

[94:01] to the dedicated funds and the compromise um when you do so are you assuming that um the base funding of 1.8 million that is currently received by the Arts Community remains or uh that the 3.3 3.75 whatever it is funding that will occur um from the initiative we'll be covering it all in other words are are you prepared to make choices at 3.75 deduction from general fund revenues or at 5.4 hi Mark uh happy to answer that question the the I was alluding to uh figures that we were assuming with the current arts and culture budget being a part of that 50 so that would be that half of the of the 0.15 tax would be inclusive of current

[95:00] funding and new funding thank you does that didn't work that's all I got any other questions seen none why don't we move to the public hearing we've got eight people signed up we've got two in person and actually seven people sign up five virtual each person will have three minutes to speak our in-person speakers are Daphne Ruben and Nick Forster hi there my name is Daphne Rubin and I'm speaking on behalf of safe zones for kids um so first I'd like to thank council members and the city staff Aaron for their assistance in as preparing this measure an appropriate form for the November ballot safe zones for kids is a pro safety for young people in the areas around schools and on the pathways they use to get to and from school is where our young people spend most of

[96:01] their time they have to be there they have no choice in the matter all of our young people deserve a school environment free from the threat of exploding propane tanks used needles illicit drugs and weapons our ballot item asks for prioritized removal of these prohibited items as identified in Boulder Revised Code 8-3-21 that are within 500 feet of schools and 50 feet of multi multi-use Pathways in short the city uses a points-based system to determine what prohibited items will be removed and when our ballot item asks that safe zones get enough points whatever that number might be so that the city can take immediate action in those areas our ballot item does not ask for any additional resources we'd like to also recognize the most recent work of Joe tarayuchi and the Sam's team to remove prohibited items that spent 10 days within 20 feet of the

[97:00] school perimeter as student athletes have returned to Boulder High we'd also we would also like to recognize bvsd security Personnel who undertook increased patrolling last spring in the wake of the propane tank explosions near Boulder High we look forward to greater coordination with school and City resources as this ballot item moves forward thank you Forster I'm Nick Forster speaking as a musician as the founder of eTown as a co-founder of Crete Boulder on behalf of the compromise ballot measure that's in front of you today first I would like to disabuse you of the notion that it's Arts versus safety because I think that's inaccurate and unrealistic and so let's agree that it's a it's not an honest choice we can

[98:01] actually as the finance committee just shared we can fund Arts to an extent that will be transformative and supportive without compromising police fire safety homelessness and other initiatives number one number two I think it's really critical to recognize that Arts is an investment it's not an expenditure that goes down the drain these are dollars that enliven enrich and engage our community in such a way that it generates Revenue typically 1.3 to two dollars per dollar invested so there's lots of research that supports that number three Arts is a great pathway for a lot of deia initiatives that we share with the city number four I want to remind you all that we very quickly got 4 000 signatures on behalf of this initiative there is a big appetite in the community for more funding to support the creative economy here in Boulder and I think that um

[99:01] we're coming to you now with this compromise measure because we know there's a new cultural plan coming we know there's an opportunity for us to collaborate we know there's an opportunity for us to be partners in ensuring a more creative more engaged more enthusiastic and a more economically vibrant downtown for Boulder so we could be adversarial I think the odds are you know who knows where they are about which one of our isolated measures would prevail but we're coming to you tonight with um the idea of partnership we want to be partners we want to work together to try to create a vision for a future that engages all of us on behalf of creativity and a more diverse economy that will will make Boulder Lively and interesting um I'm uh confident that if we can reach

[100:00] that compromise we can work together to pass this measure on behalf of both the Arts community and the 50 that will remain with the city I'm hopeful that we can expand this Beyond what's stated in other words I hope this doesn't represent the maximum potential funding for the Arts that represents an opportunity for us to build from there and I thank you for your time and happy birthday Tara thanks Nick we got a question for you hey Nick thanks for for doing this Matt had an interesting um suggestion I wanted to bounce off you to see what you're I know you speak on behalf of the whole group yeah not to put you on the spot but I want to see what your opinion is it's about the game of chicken it's the game of chicken exactly right exactly I thought Matt had a really good idea that maybe uh if it was the willow Council that we might pass the compromise proposal and the compromise proposal only which puts us a little bit at risk on the calendar for the city only one apparently not actually well not at risk but it just squeezes the calendar a little bit if we were to do that tonight

[101:00] and then presumably pass on third reading and put not even put the other two on the agenda for that night would would do you think your group would be inclined to withdraw your petition before August 17th yeah I think we would want to look at the compromise language that we suggested and make sure that the new language was adopted because there's some questions and some concerns we have about the language that came from the city attorney's office as opposed to what we'd requested but assuming that in the next week or so I mean we've got we've got a couple of weeks before the 17th and assuming that there's an opportunity to hash out some of the differences in the language I don't see any reason why we couldn't withdraw our petition sooner again this is all it's an all you know an act of good faith and Our intention um to all of you I'm sincerely saying we're we're interested in Partnership we're interested in working together with you guys I was a little bit concerned what you just said Nick about language because I thought the language had been worked out I mean and maybe you might be a draft behind but maybe Aaron can you speak to that yes we received uh subsequent request

[102:03] yesterday afternoon for additional changes to the language and while while it's good language it's very late in the process so and unnecessary it doesn't legally add or detract anything really would be a wording change in our opinion so if we made more changes that would require more readings and we are getting very close to the end I think the the challenge for us from a timing perspective is simply that we got the language yesterday so um this is not it's not unreasonable for us to react to the language that we received yesterday afternoon so that's all I'm saying is in the next couple weeks it seems like we ought to be able to Hash it out and I don't see any problem with between now and the 17th of August being able to agree on compromised language and withdraw our ballot initiative well the problem Nick is is that if if you if there's a further change so we're going

[103:01] to try to adopt something tonight sure it has to go to a third reading if you make a further change then it has to go to Fourth reading so we're gonna we're really kind of running we have a Time problem here so we kind of have to make a go no go decision tonight um well then I'm probably not empowered to speak on behalf of that okay that's fine do you need to have a follow-up question meeting about this very issue um one of my questions or at least a comment that I made that Aaron Matt and Bob would go back to the Arts community and my understanding I think Bob responded to that and said no it's just two people and I wanted to hear from you my understanding is that you are representing you are one of the representative who's working on the ballot measure the petitioners so my my question to you now that it's a 50 50

[104:00] initiative that we are looking at what Outreach have you done to ensure that the people who originally signed for the measure as it was now that we're going to 50 50 yeah did you reach out to them and what feedback did you get yeah that's a great question Juni thank you so much for that um you're absolutely right that the the initial petition was for 100 of the tax going to arts and culture um there is a lot of passion in the arts and culture Community as you might imagine and there was a lot of enthusiasm for this measure when we were gathering signatures um I would say that um we are coming to you now with a compromise that has consensus and there's some caution and there's some concern um as Mark's question came in regarding the finance committee and and what level of existing funding would be maintained and what side of the budget would that you

[105:00] know there's there's a lot of um it's a leap of faith for us it's a leap of faith for us in the Arts Community because there's no way that this Council can bind future councils on behalf of exist existing spending and so all I can tell you is that we have consensus among Arts leaders in the community to go forward with a 50 50 compromise I will also say that there's a broad hope that the existing levels of funding would be maintained but again there's no guarantees and we're willing to take that risk but we've done a lot of Outreach to the community and we've gotten General support for the 50 50 compromise Lauren appreciated you speaking to you know an interest in collaborating between the Arts organizations and Council

[106:01] and I I like that aspect of the 50 50 split but I also am struggling with like the idea of trusting voters and so one of the things that this is going to be a controversial idea but how would you feel or do you have any sense of how the group that you represent would feel about placing all three measures on the ballot oh it's a great question Lauren and my feeling is um as I said we got 4 000 votes really quickly during a monsoon we have dozens of Arts organizations and all of their staff volunteers donors and patrons aligned behind this effort um if it came down to it I have a lot of confidence that we Prevail at 100 percent and um we have as I mentioned a lot of passion we have plenty of time to organize and we've demonstrated that we're really good at organizing

[107:00] so I'm not saying that as a threat I'm simply answering your question that if all three were to go on the ballot I would be a busy boy between now and November 7th and I would feel pretty good about our chances and and may I also clarify I don't represent the entirety of this community and this this issue I'm here as an Arts person as an Arts leader and someone who's passionate about this and who's been in Boulder making art for four decades or more and I I feel very strongly about this but I don't want to overstate my my role here tonight okay well Nick thanks thank you Nicole's got one too right I just had one more I'm curious why not why not right I mean I see I see the Arts Community wanting more funding you all have for as long as I've been paying attention to all the police before Council why not I

[108:01] mean this because it yeah like to I mean sort of to follow up on Lauren's Point yeah don't we trust the voters to know what yeah well that's a great question uh Nicole and I think that um I think there's a lot of passion in the community to do that I think we're we we're actually hearing from a lot of people that we should just go for the 100 percent and um I think given the fact that the cultural plan is looming and that there's an opportunity for us to craft a vision that's a little bit larger that actually describes how arts and culture can interact with existing City priorities and needs that include housing that include health care that include diversity and Equity inclusivity there's a lot of City initiatives that have an Arts component that is potentially pretty dynamic and so the idea that we would be adversaries going for these dollars to my mind at least um sets the wrong tone

[109:00] I think that we have an opportunity to collaborate on behalf of including arts and culture in many City priorities and I share I mean I'll be really honest with you I'm I'm a I'm 100 guy like I actually feel like we could go and beat the bushes and and and win so um I'm I'm taking a leap of faith here as well especially given Mark's comments especially given you know the idea that this might be um a a small incremental shift from where we are currently we've all worked really hard and not particularly enthusiastically about an incremental shift we're really talking about a dynamic shift so um that's my answer I think it's a great question and I respect all of you and I I like the process of collaborating so that's all thanks Nick appreciate it thanks you guys yeah sorry if I went on too long

[110:00] yeah it's all good let's uh move to the rest of the public hearing or unless Rachel if you have okay we got uh virtual speakers who want to hear from our first three are Lynn Siegel Mary Horrocks and Carolyn Kirk I was gonna say I totally agree with Nick but I don't Nick and I disagree here 100 I'm a Nader gal I'm not voting for Biden again no way my brother Brad no way um so this is the deal the Arts have been underfunded for decades and decades and we owe them and this is the time to speak out about it and like Nick said I do agree with them the biggest bang for the buck is arts and Dei um and and this is the thing I'm not voting if this is a 50 50 um I'm not voting for it okay

[111:01] not gonna vote 50 50. it's got to be a hundred or nothing for me um so compromise doesn't make it and you know what you lost my vote last year with the Library District you're taking three hundred dollars a year from me I haven't got the money and my property tax just went from six to nine thousand bucks a year and inflation and covid and you know and war in Ukraine all this stuff um I paid I paid at the office I already did it and um I'm really um insulted by the fact that we had to sell off our library that was not okay and I come to you every week and every time I testify and I say let the developers pay let the developers pay let the developers pay let the developers sit

[112:00] they can handle it they can handle it they really can handle it and I don't see any change you're giving away parking restrictions you're raising height limits you pass all of this stuff and it drives up inequity and causes more um Dei diversity equity and inclusion because of the inequity in the wealth of this community and and it's got to be stopped and and then I'm getting my catalytic converter stolen has the crimes weigh up thirty seven hundred dollars for an elder I'm 70 now and this is just not okay um and I think the city the city seems to spend a lot of money on studying stuff that's like obvious way obvious and that's my tax dollars and

[113:01] it's not okay and the Arts are undefended for a long time and we owe back pay big time so sorry folks but 50 50 don't make it for me no way um thanks for what you did Nick thanks Lynn uh Mary Horrocks Carolyn Curtin Fran zankowski hello I'm Mary Horrocks um okay can you hear me yes okay thank you I've never done this remotely before uh I'm an artist uh having lived in Boulder since 1981 and since 2019 I served as executive director for Open Studios part of that at the dairy Arts Center for seven years is curator of visual art and education council members we appreciate your hard work and your financial support the work

[114:01] of the Arts Commissioners and the arts and culture staff so very much um I request that Council support the single ballot initiative to extend the 0.15 sales tax extension for 20 years with 50 of the funds collected dedicated to Arts culture and Heritage in other words the compromise measure I might add that I and my organization support Nick's comments that we can collaborate with other programs of the city to improve the quality of life here now although Boulder ranks third among similar cities in the proportion proportion of artists to the general population an estimated 4 500 working artists or 3.5 percent of the City's population according to the National Endowment for the Arts funding for the Arts in Boulder still lags behind Arts funding in comparable cities it is well known that Arts events generate revenue for the city not only are tickets sold and artworks purchased people who come here

[115:01] to attend Arts events spend money dining out shopping in retail businesses and more to provide a national statistic from 2021 production of Arts and Cultural goods and services in the U.S added 4.3 percent directly to the nation's GOP for total approaching one trillion dollars that amount remains greater than the value added by Industries such as construction transportation and warehousing Mining and agriculture the support for the for the current ballot initiative would provide approximately 3.75 million dollars for City support for the arts and culture ecosystem support for non-profit Arts artists and venues that would flow through the office of arts and culture and importantly because the revenue stream is from sales taxes it will closely track inflation over its 20-year recycle and 3.75 million for the city's generals

[116:03] fund to be spent as the city wishes importantly sufficient to provide the public safety and Human Services initiatives the council considers a high priority and I myself do as well Open Studios currently has 220 juried professional artist members all of whom make a portion or the entirety of their income from their art practice our board these members our 8 000 patrons and I plan to wholeheartedly help support Passage thank you for your time and consideration thank you Mary Carolyn Kurt Fran zankowski and Michael Nicely thank you so much my name is Caroline Kurt and I do want to clarify for the record that I'm the chair of the boulder Arts commission but I'm not hearing that capacity I'm here in my role as a resident of Boulder and an Arts attorney

[117:01] in this community so first of all thank you to the council for all the difficult work that you do to balance the interests in the community it is not easy I am here in support of the compromise measure ordinance 8591 according to the National Endowment for the Arts Boulder has the third highest concentration of professional artists per capita in the country and Boulder is also consistently listed as one of the top 10 Arts vibrant medium-sized cities in the U.S according to SMU data Arts notably that index measures three factors the number of our providers in the community the demand for Arts measured by audience-based revenues and federal and state government funding for the Arts in 2021 Boulder ranked seventh out of all medium-sized cities in the country for the number of our providers 10th in the country for demand and only 168th for state and federal funding Government funding is lagging behind for a city

[118:01] with our population and demand for the Arts funding can and should be supplemented by the municipal budget at a greater level but our funding in Boulder still lags behind at the city level the largest budget that the arts and culture program has received was in 2023 that was the 1.8 million dollar budget about half of which was provided through the federal arpa funds and still that 1.8 million dollar budget is only half of a percent of the general operating budget for the city and it compares to Boulder parks and rec and open space combined budget of 68 million dollars not a lot every year the Arts commission may make heartbreaking decisions to deny grant funding to programs and projects that are compelling would provide value and otherwise receive feedback warranty of funding but the Arts budget particularly for General operating only goes so far I would also like to say in addition that Arts positively impact local

[119:02] government budgets according to the Arts and economic Prosperity 5 study on a national basis governments at the federal at the state and local level receive a five to one return on investment when they spend on the Arts secondly according to the Americans for the Arts there are at least 29 different topics that are affect within cities these range from Workforce Development tourism and economic development to aging housing livability public welfare and more I didn't I would invite you to visit the arts for Americans website to explore those impacts so please support adding the proposed compromise initiative on the ballot it will provide substantial support to our programming without impact on the citizens and would reflect partnership and guaranteed funding for both the Arts and the city thank you thank you Caroline now we have friend zankowski and Michael Nicely

[120:02] good evening Council and thank you for this opportunity to address you I am Frank zankowski like Nick I'm a board member of create Boulder and also the publisher of the boulder weekly and just as a side note my favorite insect is the lovely earthworm I am here tonight on behalf of the petition committee for the Arts culture and heritage tax ballot measure seeking your support for our proposed compromise measure passing this compromise will afford avoid confusion and divisiveness in the November election more important it will ensure that one Arts and Cultural program in Boulder meets the needs and aspirations of our community while also being diverse Equitable inclusive and accessible to all these values are essential for a thriving and cohesive Society two art education becomes accessible to all our children supporting their cognitive emotional and Social Development this is especially vital as schools face

[121:01] mounting pressure due to divert resources away from Arts education three Boulder can effectively compete with other Colorado communities that are prioritizing the Arts making significant Investments to strengthen their local economies and their communities investment investing in the Arts has an exponential impact on economic activity generating jobs increasing local spending and contributing to the city's tax base they are to fundamental to our Collective and individual Humanity they Foster vital social connections engender a sense of belonging and Empower communities to work together in addressing challenges the compromise measure presents a historic opportunity to enrich Boulders cultural landscape and transform Boulder into more vibrant resilient and welcoming Community for future Generations we urge you to vote Yes for the compromise initiatives and again thank

[122:01] you for your time tonight thank you Fran our final speaker is Michael Nicely Michael you should be able to unmute now all right can you hear me now yes okay uh my name is Michael knisely I am a teacher for the past 45 years now uh and for the past seven years here in the Boulder area and I care deeply for all of my students and my colleagues well-being especially as we seek to grow and strive and survive and thrive in this 21st century world as an artist writer and photographer working within the boulder Arts Community I implore the council and

[123:01] citizens to vote to extend the sales tax of 0.15 which will currently expire in 2024 to be divided among Public Safety public services and yes the boulder Arts community you certainly appreciate and value the many roles that the Arts serve for to enhance the quality of life for everyone in Boulder proper and outlying areas whose lives are tied to this essential Center of civilization here on Colorado's Front Range revenues generated from extending this compromise ordinance option sales tax could continue to provide needed financial support to include the Arts its organizations and

[124:00] its individual artists who depend on the spectrum of community members contributing to the greater cause of enriching our increasingly vibrant and vital community thank you for your time thank you Michael all right I'm going to close the public hearing and come to council for discussion and so what I'm going to suggest I think we have our Crux issue is what we're doing with the 0.15 tax measure the things the things with the potentially most disagreement about so I'd like to for us to address that if we could and what I might ask is whether Council supports this 8591 5050 compromise measure and so kind of look to council um I mean I could go straight to a straw poll where people wanted to offer some introductory remarks that's fine to us or Rachel and I got Nicole okay I will uh if we're this is what we're doing I will speak in support of the 8591 compromise

[125:02] um I appreciate the community members who um noted that we usually get a two to one return on investment in dollars um dedicated to Arts maybe up to 5.1 someone said so that was impressive and then I just wanted to if you will humor me Community read a couple lines from a letter that we received from the NAACP asking whether they support and other community members receive some Outreach would support the 50 50 split um so this is just a few lines from there The Boulders office of arts and culture has done more to support racial Equity than any other City Department to date the Arts Community has shown that the Arts bring in Revenue mostly by attracting tourists and patrons from outside and within Boulder who spend money on adjacent restaurants and retail sales when a city Embraces cultural awareness and art the result is revenue vibrancy and prestige the NAACP Boulder County could easily support 100 of the tax going to the Arts although this is in support of 50 50 split those who are unclear about the

[126:02] intrinsic value of artists in society are advised to study history more thoroughly the Arts speak a universal language Reaching Across at Reaching Across ethnic religious and economic divisions the Arts allow for non-violent cultural shifts the four thousand signatures bringing this ballot measure forward represent voters who understand the value of unapologetically supporting the Arts in Boulder recognizing the dramatic and positive difference such support could and would bring I don't think I can say it better than that so I would just say that I am in support and I really appreciate the collaborative spirit I for one would not want to fight with Arts well thank you Nicole Matt thank you um so I I think I'm going to have a different opinion here I would rather put the two original or all three measures on the ballot if we move forward with only the compromise we're going to be going against our long-term financial goals to move away from dedicated funding we'll be going against

[127:00] the thousands of Voters who wanted to dedicate this whole tax to arts and culture and we'll be going against the evidence in our polling that said if we gave them the opportunity to spend more money most voters would like us to put money into other programs the feedback that we received from a handful of equity focused Arts and Cultural organizations first of all thank you to everybody who did take time to give us feedback on such short notice but what we got back was was mixed some were in favor of the compromise some were in favor of renewing the tax only for general fund purposes somewhere in favor of the measure giving all the funding to the Arts but we didn't talk to other communities that are in need of extra support the lgbtq plus Community groups like EPA who are seeing huge increases in need are Community connectors other things that are funded by General funds of course the Arts transcends all of these groups but it doesn't sit well with me that Council would move forward without hearing from other groups that are in need of extra support we also didn't get feedback from our human relations commission which would

[128:00] have been ideally positioned to advise us we didn't get feedback from the Arts commission which will be enormously impacted if their Grant budget and need to review applications doubles or triples and we didn't get feedback from our connectors some of whom lead Arts and Cultural organizations and all of whom have already been engaging their communities and thinking about how we allocate funds in our budget so with this compromise measure we're talking about 55 million dollars or more over the next 20 years that's a lot of money to be moving pretty quickly and if we're moving so quickly with such a large amount of money that we can't engage the boards and commissions and other groups who can expand our thinking about the impact of a decision like this I would prefer to not change course at this stage let's let the voters take the wheel and put the original City measure and the Arts petition on the ballot I don't see having both measures as being divisive I actually see it as an opportunity to get buy-in our residents are smart and thoughtful 35 000 voters will do a far better job of sussing out

[129:01] this issue and all the unattended consequences of the two options then the nine of us will I really don't want to take this vote and decision from our community I have faith that whatever they decide will be well reasoned and will set us on the right path for the next 20 years I first want to maybe address a little something that my colleague Nicole just said with regards to input from HRC and others none of the ballot measures addressing the 0.15 sought that input or got that input does that mean we foreclose going anywhere on 0.15 absolutely not and so I think it's important for us to to maybe not use um what happens towards the end of ballot measure process and an opportunity to unify and collaborate as a means to Halt all that work I think it's important for us to recognize that we have a cultural master plan that's about to give us an immense opportunity to set a road map for how we invest and

[130:00] how we engage in every aspect of our community in order to make the Arts not just great but to make them the proper return on the investment we're about to make in the Arts and I think that's critical for us to do I first want to just thank arts for Boulder the ballot committee and all the people that signed this position because what it did is it really brought us all to the table to talk about how we can transform this community and give them the proper tools to be successful now and into the future and and I appreciate what Rachel brought up with regards to the letter we got from NAACP and what that return of investment is this is the floor not the ceiling and I think it's important for us to recognize that we have an opportunity to transform the Arts and if there's more to come we have perhaps so we have uh B mocha moving North hopefully we have we're talking about a Performing Arts Complex we're talking about infrastructure for uh places for performing other performers and other artists to have space to minimize the impacts of high rent in our

[131:01] community I think all of those things are things and reasons why we make that investment um it's important for us to recognize as Nick said that this is an investment not an expense so for all of those reasons and for the sake of being collaborative I think it's important for us to move forward with this compromise of 50 50. it's the best thing we can do where we all win but we all lose a little too when we compromise the city doesn't get to have all of its general fund and nor does the Arts take the risk on their end so this is exactly what community does when there's two things going in a different direction we find a middle ground we find a way where everybody gets a little something out of it so I think this is a great alternative given that we are getting pulled in two different directions so I enthusiastically will support um this compromise This Is 50 50 and I'm looking forward to how it transforms our community going forward well I'll just pick up where Matt left off I think this is a wonderful compromise too I really appreciate the arts for Boulder um bringing this to us and their willingness to to move to 50

[132:00] 50 even though they have a real right to go for the 100 ballot measurement they may they may win that they may not if it goes forward I think there's a little confusion here on the diocese and so I want to try to clarify it or at least to State my understanding of it maybe I'm wrong we're not allocating any money tonight we're not doing a budget tonight we're not saying that 20 times 3.7 million is going to the Arts we're not saying anything tonight the only decision we're making tonight is what to put on the ballot the voters will decide how much of this money should go to the Archer if any is the voter's decision the only decision we're making is what do we put in the ballot and the arson Boulder group has the right has the legal right tonight to insist that we put their 100 percent um ballot measure on the measure on the ballot and they could say that tonight and we would have to do that we have no choice but they've come to us now and said you know what we got the signatures at 100 but we're willing to actually accept only 50 percent Council what say you would you do you want to have zero percent or do you want

[133:00] to have 50 that's the only decision we're making here we're not making a decision about what to give to the Arts that's going to be a voter's decision and so all we're being asked to is what to Tia for the voters and the folks who own the legal rights to put this on the ballot have said you know what for all the all the wonderful reasons that Fran and Nick and others have said about compromise and collaboration and cooperation um which I very much appreciate they've said you know we even though we have a legal right to it 100 we will take 50 and we'll go hand in hand to the voters with that uh to me that's a that's a no-brainer decision I mean that's it doesn't get any better than that where somebody voluntarily gives up a right and says we'll take less why would we as a council not accept that generous offer and and retain some more of the money for some of the other things that are general fund needs so I'm fully supportive of the compromise and I very very much appreciate the members of the community who brought this to us it's Mark

[134:00] well I'm going to take a different point of view and agree with my colleague Nicole on this um you know we have been increasing Arts funding uh we have not discussed not only the extent to which we've been increasing it but the velocity at which we have been producing it and now we are looking to double it again and as my uh some of my colleagues have said uh who may differ from me on this issue they use this as a floor not a ceiling so we may be looking at tripling or quadrupling it we do have other needs and we do have a needs that we cannot fully satisfy um effort came before us tonight and said we are seeing vast increases in Need for our services now we're not providing 50 percent of this for them and they could make an equally strong case that the services that they provide are of inestimable value to this community

[135:02] um I know Nick is is very confident in his ability to Prevail on this but I think it's it's a and he may be correct but to me this is a decision that ought to be made by the voters of Boulder not by this an artificial compromise I prefer to see both Knicks uh initiative language and our competing ballot um be placed on on the ballot and let the community decide whether they want a more robust um a general fund and an ability to address more things that are uh that we need to address or whether they want to divert more of our funds to the Arts that it's a major decision it will have impact and I know it will have impact but you know what we have a very bright Community here that's what they want

[136:00] I'm happy to have them do that you know we'll we will have to figure out how to do that but we will um and I am not but I'm not at all convinced that that's the way the vote would go I think people um do have a sense of the the various needs and competing needs of the city and I would let them make that choice so I I I would not support the compromise I would support putting on the ballot the 100 percent uh for the Arts and our competing resolution and taking it from there and let the people who really should make the decision uh the voters make the decision thank you thanks Mark I got Lauren and then Tara thank you I um I appreciated what Matt said um this compromising is safe and I do feel like we all win but we all

[137:02] lose um I would like to give the voters the full range of options that we're considering here we have been told time and time again that earmarking is not a good idea for our long-term Financial strategy but this is really the people's money and it is really their decision I know that placing trust in our voters in that way in on an item that has far-reaching long-term consequences is scary but it really is you know their funding and so I would like to see us place that trust and allow the community to win in the way that they see as the best option forward well first I want to say that we on Council make a lot of decisions that we don't get votes on

[138:00] so that's first of all but what I really want to say is Council is full for me of a lot of difficult decisions and trade-offs tonight I have to say not just because it's my birthday Nick and because we have the cutest kids ever as the pollinators come I was really smiling tonight because first of all your speech was inspiring for me but also because I'm really get excited when we can do something like this where we can work together we can have Partnerships and I think everybody actually wins so I'm excited I think for me Arts is we do a lot of stuff that is like how can we fix this and how can we fix that and I do like fixing things but for me Arts is more Visionary so it's combining fixing and Visionary at the same time to me it's the perfect partnership I'm excited to vote for that 50 50 partnership all right I'll uh go ahead and call on myself I want to congratulate the arts for Boulder folks for Gathering so many

[139:00] signatures in such a short time period when I saw you start that work I looked at the time clock and thought that seems unlikely to be successful but you pulled it off which showed a very high level of enthusiasm in the community for this measure so congrats on that but when I saw it started if I was exciting about the additional possibilities for the Arts but also concerned because the 100 measure would have forced a reduction in spending on city services which I didn't want to see so then thank you to the arts for Boulder folks for coming to us to to talk about a compromise because we have a unique opportunity here to add additional transformative Arts funding without reducing other city services and so I'm excited to move forward with this with this compromise and look forward to putting it on the ballot and hopefully having it passed so the the Arts feed our souls and hopefully this text Will nourish our community the soul of our community for many years to come so thank you just a really slight double dip which is

[140:01] I am afraid of a lot of things for our community like flooding and you know violence against community members things I am not afraid like I am not coming from a position of fear on this like I'm not afraid of 0 50 or 100 go into Arts so I just I just wanted to clarify for the community that that's not where I'm coming from thanks okay um so we've we could if no one else has any further comments we could go to a motion on this one check uh before I make a motion I just had a clarification um with Aaron or Teresa with regards to um if we choose to Pat if I choose to make a motion with regards to passing uh 85.91 [Music] um with regards to moving forward with only that and not the other two be it 85 88 and 8589 do I need to say something about not moving forward with them or by saying nothing is sort of defaulting to that I would say nothing and just deal

[141:01] with 85.91 and then there may be more discussion amongst the council about what to do with those two ordinances wonderful then I'll go ahead and start that so I make a motion um to pass ordinance 85.91 submitting to the electors of the city of Boulder the general Municipal coordinated election to be held on Tuesday November 7th 2023 the question of without raising additional taxes extending the existing 0.15 Cents city sales tax and use tax approved by the voters by ordinance 7300 beyond the current expiration date of December 31st 2024 until December 31st 2044 with 50 of the revenue used to fund fire emergency response Services Public Safety Services homelessness Solutions and services parks and other General front purposes and 50 percent of the revenue used to fund Arts culture and Heritage programs as a voter approved Revenue change specifying the form of

[142:02] the ballot and other elected election procedures and setting forth related details second before you finish voting I just want to check and make sure because I missed it whether or not you said pass and amend or just pass ing them in yeah okay I was just going to pass all right so I'll start again thank you I'll just say pass an amend pass as amended thank you and can I ask Aaron do we need to clarify that this would be using the language from the hotline from two days ago I mean you read the title but there were some other changes as well if you'd like to make that part of the record it it certainly wouldn't hurt with regards to the hotline that was sent a few days ago that amended language which I read the ballot um title of and then there was related details that followed that were modified

[143:01] does that clarify that's wonderful thank you got a motion in a second um unless we need further discussion Alicia can we go to a vote please and for just the record this vote is for the past and the amend and the pass of 85 81. 85 91 I'm sorry 85.91 yes all right we will start this vote with council member spear no mayor Pro Tim Wallick no councilmember weiner yes Yates yes Benjamin yes yes thank you mayor Brockett yes councilmember falkerts

[144:01] yes friend yes and Joseph yes 85 91 is hereby amended and approved as amended with a vote of seven to two thanks very much Elisha Lauren and I've got direction to go next to I would like to make a motion to trying to keep track of which one I need to pass and amend um to pass and adopt ordinance 85 88 submitting to the registered electors no sorry well you can do that if you want to I mean 85.88 is the staff Proposal with 100 to the general funds okay to

[145:01] to pass an amend 85 89 submitting to the registered electors of the city of Boulder at the general Municipal coordinated election to be held on Tuesday November 7th 2023 the question of without raising additional taxes extending the existing 0.15 cents City sales and use tax approved by the voters by ordinance 7300 beyond the current expiration date of December 31st 2024 until December 31st 2044 and earmark revenue from this tax extension to fund Arts culture and Heritage as a voter approved Revenue change specifying the form of the ballot and other election procedures and setting forth related details you've got a motion do we have a second are you still going yes and I would also

[146:03] like to which one is that so I think we need to consider one motion at a time is it one at a time yeah it's one at a time so what I might say Lorna's will look for a second and then we'll ask you to speak to your motion you can talk about your other where you're going second okay we got a motion a second so Lauren would you like to speak to your motion I've already covered this a little bit but I think that giving voters my preference is always going to be to try and give voters choice so in this circumstance I would like to see us put all three of these options on the ballot for voters to choose between got it yeah question about Lauren I got a question for you um what's that okay yeah absolute statements are tough right um so my question for you is with

[147:00] regards to your desire to see all three on the ballot and in particular um who knows you just voted yes on 85.91 and so I'm wondering does your support of 85 91 is that contingent on seeing the other two on the ballot or or perhaps and maybe you can't answer this now but I'm just sort of curious about um if you're if your support for 8591 is really contingent on perhaps the other two also being on the ballot and so I'm just sort of wondering how this plays out because next week as planned to might Paul fall off but you want all three and so I just didn't know if it has to be if you're interested in really a package or you still are okay if one or only two or anything end up actually on the ballot in terms of how you would support going forward and maybe you don't want to answer that now and that's fine but I was just curious about how that would how that would impact your sport going forward okay um I would really like to see all three I we'll wait and see and decide as those

[148:00] things become apparent in the future June you got a question thank you I think this is a process question it is for you Aaron or maybe for the petitioners Nick so we've decided that we're going 50 50 with the understanding that the petitioners or the representatives will remove their measure if we were to add the other two we would have to get their buy-in wouldn't we or we would be able to just do it you can't remove it for them so you could end up with three ballot initiatives 100 100 50 50. but only only they can take off their petition but that's exactly what I'm asking is that if we were to to right now to go with this proposal have they decided that they will continue on with the 100 because part of it is that we've done this compromise and they would withdraw that 100 does

[149:00] that make sense I believe what I've heard from them is that they will wait to withdraw their petition until after the 17th though I I may have understood that so it could put counsel in the position of having to repeal if they said they would and they didn't the August 24 study session could be converted to a special meeting and the compromise 50 50 could be repealed so my question council member yes I want to see if I understand your question is your your question if we were to move forward with all three tonight do they do the petitioner have to assent yes would they yes they do not they they do not um the council is the body with the authority to act tonight the petitioners have acted by collecting their signatures and submitting a petition that has been certified by our Clerk and

[150:00] so they've taken that action in addition they have conferred with the city for the language of the ballot title and the city has proposed ballot title language and so everything that the petitioner has to do has been accomplished whether they withdraw a petition or not is um it it's just up to them it's simple exactly thank you it's within their discretion there is this body cannot force that okay does that answer your question and and I have something to add here but I'll go to uh just to follow up on juni's question I had asked about this at the last time we discussed it too like what did what would the petitioners think about having three options so I don't know if yours is like a a formally what can we do or don't we want to know what they think of it because we just

[151:00] tried to compromise so I had asked that uh the people who were kind of chatting with them you know look into that and I you know I can't speak for 4 000 people or even you know those who are the the petitioners themselves but I got zero indication that they were interested in the three-part option so that's what I heard back if that's at all helpful I'm kind of inclined to vote just let me ask you a question and I'll make a statement I think if we passed 85.89 today on the motion that Lauren's made um that's not the final reading we still would have to have one more reading on 85 89 is that right that's correct third reading if if um if the petitioners had come up here and said two things um uh we are happy with the language of 85.91 and if they had said and if you guys pass it on second reading it and promise to pass on the third reading we'll withdraw our petition between now and then but it said those two things I wouldn't be interested in 85.89 but we have two areas of uncertainty apparently

[152:01] we are still equivalent over the language and we don't have I'm out here in the petitioner saying that they'll withdraw their petition before the 17th of August so in light of those two things I'm inclined to vote to move forward to 85.89 it's not the final reading but that does preserve us some optionality as far as time goes what I'm afraid of is we'll get to the 17th of August we will only have moved forward 85.91 um and we'll have some sort of mass with the language because we've already had some messy discussions it sounds like with the language and we will not have had a withdrawal of the petition and then we'll be out of not out of options but coming close to out of options because we won't have even past second reading we still have to do a third reading on 85.89 so I'm inclined to just for safety sake safety Net's sake past 85.89 tonight that gives us optionality I'm not supportive of 82.89 but I just think that because of of the large uncertainty here as we sit here just weeks away from our measure deadline I think we need to pass it I appreciate your your suggestion man I thought was a great one but but then

[153:00] we learned some things that maybe um caused that not to work so I'm going to vote in favor of 85.89 at least tonight so I'm calling myself and agree with what Bob has just said that you know I think that for safety's sake that moving 85 89 forward while we continue the discussions on the details of the language is a safe thing to do and then hopefully we can move forward cleanly with 8591 with final language and have that be the only thing at the August 17th meeting but I'll I'll vote for for Lauren's measure on 85.89 but I will say that Lauren if you do continue to to then also move 8588 which is the 100 general fund uh that I will not support that motion uh I do not want to move all three forward I want to make sure that we're shooting towards 85.91 that's the 50 50 compromise um so I'll just put that out there right now all right any other comments before we go to a vote on motion Nicole um I just since I seconded um just wanted to add I mean I think you know Bob you mentioned we don't want to sort of predetermine outcomes here but

[154:01] it feels like that's kind of what we're doing that we wouldn't be trying to strike a compromise if you know we didn't think that the Arts measure at 100 was potentially going to pass but it there there are a lot of assumptions here and at the end of the day we don't know what the voters are going to do so I really would still like to see all three move forward and I will vote for this um also wanting to vote for uh the 8588 when that comes to it great so we've got a motion and a second I see no footer hands raised you wish you could go to a vote on the motion please I just wanted to clarify for the record as well do we need to say as amended by the hotline as well 485-91 yeah but maybe just clarify using the language from the hotline from two days ago yes pass and amend using the language from the hotline two days ago

[155:00] all right thank you we'll start this vote with mayor Pro Tim Wallick mark I council member weiner yes Yates yes Benjamin yes mayor Brockett yes councilmember falkerts yes friend in keeping with my colleague Bob yates's logic yes Joseph yes yes and spear yes ordinance 85 89 as amended is hereby approved with a vote of nine to zero Lauren are you still going

[156:01] and my understanding is that we do not would not need to take a ction on 85 88 yes 85-88 has not been amended so if you passed it tonight that would be final action and we don't recommend that thank you it will it will just move forward for August 17th so it's an option on the table it's great so then in other words the remaining items the ordinance is 85 86 85 87 and 85 88 we will move forward we will not vote on them tonight but ask that they'll be brought back for the 17th for consideration absolutely correct very good so that then covers all five of our potential ordinances that we're discussing so good work everyone talking that through and so I just want to comment on on where that that leaves us which is that

[157:00] um I think we have given some pretty clear Council Direction but we have not taken final votes on which ordinances to actually adopt so I think on the 17th um this will be to see a seed decision but we may put these on consent but then have or the continued hearing is maybe that's what we already have that as a placeholder should we continue the hearing it's legislative so it's not a quasi-judicial hearing that would have to be continued so you could schedule it as CAC under the public hearing slot that's been set aside or it could be on consent right so we'll leave that up to a CAC to make that decision but just I think everyone can anticipate that we'll have to talk about this at least a little bit on the 17th to make the final decisions in the final votes any other thoughts on this matter before we close it out all right thanks for productive and civil discussion and uh thanks again to the petitioners for their collaboration it's always fun to work through some some actual motions so all right if we can then go to our

[158:01] matter from the city manager please yes sir our Matters from the city manager are item number six on tonight's agenda 6A is the 311 Mapleton land dedication update thank you so much council members and uh this item has been before Council we've talked about it a few times and we have our director of Housing and Human Services here to provide a quick update leaving it again Council I'm your closer tonight um if you could put up the presentation so again we're we're discussing a uh a project which came in front of council several years ago it's currently under construction at 311 Mapleton it's

[159:00] some of the first aspects or units of this development are going to be receiving their certificate of occupancy soon and during the time where it went through entitlements and you can go to the next slide during the time it went through entitlements um the uh the developer put forward a proposal um to meet their inclusionary housing it was very different when then what would be required under inclusionary housing and to recall at that time our inclusionary housing requirement was 20 percent it's currently 25 percent so it's a development of 91 Independent Living units and so what they had committed to at the time was eight units on site and then to develop the fruhof site which is on 33rd

[160:00] Street as an affordable housing development also for seniors and that was uh documented through an agreement that was presented to council if I recall a couple of days before that um um uh final votes um and then we didn't hear it about hear about it for quite some time they eventually started development at 311 Mapleton and when they pulled their their building permits they paid cash and lieu um and what had happened prior to them starting at 311 Mapleton is the agreement that actually um expired it was um it was based on them receiving financing for fruhofs and so the um uh the the agreement that was made was

[161:00] actually null and void at that point so it reverted back to um the inclusionary housing requirements of 20 percent so it was it was a difficult uh challenge for Council as well as for the community and um so as staff when we saw that happening we began negotiating with a developer to see if we could come to an agreement which was closer to their original commitments and I'm not speaking for the developer tonight but the reasons they've given for that change in Direction was issues related to financing and cost of construction um so the if you could go to the next slide I'll talk about the agreement that we've come to um so they're gonna it's it's a uh

[162:02] it's a site review I'm sorry it's a voluntary agreement um that's that's been made and um so the fruhof site which they are going to develop they will be donating to the city the city in turn will be turning that over to Boulder housing Partners to eventually develop that site um and in lieu of the eight units that they had committed to provide on-site they will be paying a total of 1.7 million dollars in cash and lieu the total value of those two aspects of of the donation of ruhoff's and the 1.7 million cash and Liu is about eight million dollars if they had reverted to what they were required under inclusionary housing it would have been about 3.8 million dollars so it says here on the slides the

[163:00] closing is scheduled for the week of August 17th we're actually targeting to uh to close this next Monday um and one of the questions that have been asked by Council I think Mark Wallach had asked the question um you know how do we hold them to this current agreement so this agreement is [Music] is holding them accountable by not giving them certificates of occupancy on I believe it's for specific specific specific buildings um and that's the The Leverage we have to make sure that the agreement is completed in full so the community has followed this project very closely many community members have been concerned about it so we wanted to present this to U.S Council to make you aware of the the outcomes and also to give you an opportunity to ask any questions that you may have

[164:00] about the process and where we landed thank you so Kurt thanks for the presentation and thanks so much for your team's very hard work on finding an alternative satisfaction the original agreement questions for Kurt thanks Aaron uh thanks Kurt that was very helpful I just want to make sure I understood some of the elements that you you highlighted for us you said that the the total value your estimated the total value of of the of the donation of the fruhaus land plus the 1.7 million in cash would be about eight million dollars is that right that's correct so should I assume from that eight minus 1.7 you value the freehop site at about 6.3 million that's correct and I think I heard you say but I wanted to emphasize this that um forget about the brewhouse property because obviously they're not required to go forward with that but with respect to the 311 Mapleton property if they simply fulfill their their 20 cash and lieu requirement it would simply write us a check for 3.8 million and be good is that right that's correct that's the legal requirement yes so we're getting a

[165:00] little bit more than twice as much as they're legally required to pay that's correct um and then finally I I think you said that um the property is going to be conveyed voluntarily or given to the city free the fruit house property and then it's your intention to to pretty quickly turn that through house property over to Boulder housing Partners is that right closing will actually go straight to oh so you won't even be there but there won't be two closings got it okay that's great that's even better and then um you know what Boulder housing Partners intention is with respect to the brewhouse property so what they have told me is that they would also like to Target a development that that provided housing for seniors okay um as you know they have a number of developments that they're working on right now and they will look at that to see where that fits in their queue of projects so they haven't committed on a time frame yet of when they would focus on that book development but are we

[166:00] assured regardless of whether it's seniors or not seniors that's their decision are we pretty highly confident that if we convey or the land is conveyed to Boulder housing partners that at some point in time that will be 100 affordable units it will because of covenants on the property great great and this is probably a question for Brad if you happen to know the answer I know that many many years ago we did a concept review on on this property um do you know if that concept review is still fresh or we kind of have to start over again with Boulder housing it has expired okay um it doesn't mean that I don't know what the process is for for digging it up again and presenting it but that's also a possibility let me they might want to do something slightly different anyway that's correct okay that's fine well this sounds like I mean this literally sounds to me like a good deal too good to be true we're getting eight million dollars of property and cash when all we're entitled is 3.8 million am I like missing anything there yeah I'm I'm very excited about the outcome as well um it could have been much worse and um the the community expected a lot so

[167:01] I'm very thankful that the Developers stayed with us and and decided to continue to negotiate for something that was much higher than what would have been and we're still going to get the affordable housing approvs absolutely yes well great job I just think this is a fantastic result thank you so much Richard thank you for a second um uh I think that the four half site will probably be land bank for some period of time uh undetermined because there are some other things in in Boulder housing Partners q but it will in fact be uh affordable housing when they're done with it thanks Mark any other Nicole yeah I just wanted to say thank you Kurt and sorry that you had to be in this position of spending all this time on it but really appreciate your efforts and this outcome thank you appreciate that applaud you there's a big round of applause for sure [Applause] and and I'll just add as well uh you know Kurt another big thank you yeah I can't tell you how many times over the

[168:01] years community members have asked me about this topic um you know Bob and I were on the council when this was approved originally 311 Mapleton and that that so many community members have come up to me and said what happened with 311 Mapleton why aren't we getting the affordable housing that was originally agreed to and for years I didn't have a great answer I said well we're hoping they'll come forward through hubs were not sure uh I have this question again a week ago a woman I was having lunch with said what happened with three little Maple and I said we have good news right this is coming out in just the next few days that we've arrived at a really satisfactory outcome so I know there's been a lot of concern in the community about this I hope that folks feel much better about the process now that we've gotten to this much much better outcome so thanks again for your work for that thank you Mark yeah I also want to give thanks to to Kurt I mean um we really created the chicken salad out of something a lot less tasty and I appreciate it uh this is a great outcome

[169:01] given the the possibilities I I do think as we move forward next year into the next Council we ought to be taking a look at our processes on this so that we don't have these [Music] excitements uh you know when we think something is going to happen we ought to have it happen um and I know there there is a lot of thought going into that that subject but I would like to have us address that at the appropriate time next year because people do have an expectation and this was advertised and in one form and it turns out not to have happened and there was a long delay and if it weren't for the great efforts of Curt and staff we would still be looking at a delay and looking at something a lot less satisfactory than what we got so I I'm hoping we can

[170:00] really focus in on that next time next Council thank you very good not seeing any other hands raised uh Kirk don't go too far but uh Emily do you want to read the next one of the record or shall I period s so we're going to move on to item 8A from under Matters from the mayor and members of council that is an update on homeless Services external evaluation and safe outdoor camping cart you're right here yeah so good evening again Council so um council member friend about a week or so ago sent a a hotline requesting an update on an evaluation that we spoke about at the retreat as well as a connection to looking at a program of safe camping for

[171:01] our city um and uh I think I did and I think many of us went back and looked at the the retreat I came out with a lot of pointers of how I can present better next time it's tough watching yourself talk [Laughter] um true for all of us but um so to answer your your your question Rachel so I'm going to talk about two things um one is the evaluation process so the the way we've been looking at this so at the retreat we committed to having an evaluation of our homeless Services System our system is part of a wider system under Homeless Solutions for Boulder County and so we've been collaborating with HSBC which includes the county in Longmont to doing more

[172:01] comprehensive assessment of the whole system particularly since we're we're more than five years out of when we we started that and our intent was as we look at that assessment and the outcomes it we're anticipating that we'll highlight gaps in our system things that are going well things that could go better and that would be a good time to look at other programs um so the the schedule of that and I also noticed that that I had an error in one error in the hotline that I responded to so the the um the request for proposal is going out this fall in September um we'll be working with uh with Boulder County on that they would most likely be releasing that um it would be we anticipate awarding it in December and the work starting in January the the um the errors that we expect that

[173:01] um that that work would actually be done sometime in the spring completed in the spring of next year um and then the second thing I wanted to um sort of highlight um and I I um and Rick Rachel mentioned this at CAC on Monday as well you know what's the progress um that that staff um has made around this particular issue and while it wasn't one of the 10 city council priorities it was certainly something that we heard a lot about from Council Members um so some of the the things that have occurred since then we've we've worked with three different communities who have these programs one is in Madison Wisconsin Louisville Kentucky and Portland Oregon and we've done reviews of those programs with those three cities we've also met with when I say we I mean

[174:02] the staff who do this great work meet with the met with the Colorado Village collaborative looked at their budgets um their policies and and that sort of thing um and then we've we also looked at the I believe it was in uh 2016 the council put together a list of sites when it was being spoken about then city-owned sites that that could be looked at for this particular use so we've taken that and we've looked at sort of the zoning implications of of each of those sites um and lastly we've prepared a proposed evaluation criteria of sites if we were to go down that road so that's the update that I have for tonight on that

[175:00] Rachel that was yours you wanna sure um thanks for that Kurt so just for um a little bit of history for I doubt many people watched our retreat but my memory of the retreat was that we asked at the outset for things that we you know because at a midterm Retreat you can add things to the work plan that's like the time and place that you do it that we asked legal like do we vote on this here or we would we vote on it later and I think that the advice that we got on day one was we can't add you know we can't formerly vote here so we will have to do that after the retreat and so I think I walked away from the retreat thinking we had added safe outdoor space to the work plan and and greenlit a consultant I did send a request to CAC the weekend of the retreat and asked us to make sure we scheduled that vote and I don't remember or know if that happened I will say that I got covered shortly thereafter and my brain went kind of you know soft and muddy for a I don't know a month or six weeks so I don't remember

[176:00] um if we got back to that and there was meetings with the county was coming up so there was a lot of stuff going on so I kind of wanted to bring this back so we could remember like what is it that we did um green light I don't know if we need a NADA five to uh you know schedule something to be voted on to add to the work plan or not tonight but so I wanted to look at that for both of the things I also um I thought that we were saying that we wanted a a consultant that would be for the city not part of HSBC I think that in some ways you know we are not fully 100 percent symbiotic uh you know we we may at times have some conflict with the county and one of those is like we don't have a health department and and the size of HHS Department that they do and I think a lot of the funding for some of the things that are really plaguing our unhoused community members such as mental health and addiction

[177:00] really are the County's purview and so what I would be looking for in this independent consultant looking at giving us a an overview of gaps in our homelessness Services as I recall is somebody who's really beholden to us and and looking at it like what's best for the city of Boulder perspective it doesn't mean that I don't think we should be collaborating also and and participating in the HSBC look but I also don't think like at our Retreat that we could say you know show of hands for who wants to tell HSBC what to hire a consultant I think we my memories we wanted that for ourselves so I just wanted to clarify bring it back and make sure that we gave staff um really crisp Direction I also could have been more concrete at the retreat in in what I was asking for and I think we were all sort of jumping between a couple different subtopics as well as gearing up for the meeting with the county so it just it all got a little muddled I think so maybe if I have a

[178:01] request procedurally is do we need to do a not a five to clarify what we greenlit at The Retreat did we did we adequately vote on adding this to the work plan does it look to Nuria here I'm happy to respond I I did have the opportunity to look at it's always nice to go back and look at meetings where there is a lot of time and um if you know me at all I go one by one this person said this this person said that and want to say that a it was an incredibly uh deep conversation I thought it was really fruitful uh there were a lot of conversations about what direction we should go to and as Kurt brought up the conversation about the initial consultant I think that conversation started taking root about we should we think it's a good idea to have a consultant and it's maybe a good idea to have that joint or it's a good idea to do that independently but it was not as crisp and the other thing and I think you mentioned this council member

[179:00] friend is that there was because the conversation with the county was coming up there was a lot of I think we need to have this conversation with the county and really be crisp with them there was also conversation about should we hire a national expert should we hire local experts and whether or not this conversation is too premature to have yet until we have a conversation with the county so so all of that to say is that I don't think we greenlit anything at that meeting I think that it was an expectation that maybe we would get more clarity after the meeting with the Commissioners and having said that if this is something that Council wants to bring forward it would be a nod to add to the work plan staff would have to then scope that out within their current capacity constraints and we would get back to you foreign yeah go ahead we'll appreciate the update on that uh Kurt um you know one thing that was

[180:01] evident uh having looked back was urgency on these issues right um I think that's why we sort of refocused that mid-year Retreat to focus a lot on homelessness because of that urgency and so I I'm a little and certainly that meeting we have the County Commissioners expressed our general uh place with that um but but relying on that to be our vehicle for our local success I'm not sure was where we wanted to go so I'm kind of I'm a little concerned that to some extent we got to keep our cards with us to some extent on some of these things that are within our purview to do and when there's urgency sometimes bringing in too many collaborators retards that urgency um or the efficacy of what we're trying to do so I I'm I'm hopeful we can figure out how we maybe siphon away what that was maybe if they still want to pursue that great but but we've got needs here that need to be met and I'm not sure we have to wait on study I mean we have a I think staff did a study on sanctioned

[181:01] camping and not too long after covet began so so we have resources we I think we have enough that we can start to make some client decisions on if we want to and we can always have a consultant help us refine where we go but I think the urgency maybe dictates that we start making uh some moves now um but I do want to respect the work plan and staff's time but but I think time is of the essence on some of these things and we can walk and chew gum at the same time and I think we kind of almost have to given the urgency of the situations and I appreciate that council member and I guess maybe what we're saying is we we would like your direction we did not get a vote we did not see consensus we would need to see a consensus of where you would like to vote would you like us to consider sanctioned encampment sites would you like us to consider a broader array what is it that you would like us to do so we can move forward can I ask you a procedural question if I if I might because uh I referenced earlier in the meeting we have a study session on safe outdoor

[182:02] spaces on September 28th so what is that in regards to I'll defer to Kurt but I don't believe that it's just about safe outdoor spaces as much as it's an update on homelessness yeah it's actually it's actually an update on homelessness and so we've started a number of new programs this year as well it will be an update in all the new programs an update on the day service center everything that's happened um you know since the retreat um and so it's it's going to be a pretty comprehensive um presentation and discussion okay so I would just have a request that we changed that title right away because actually to Rachel's point when I've been seeing that on our schedule coming up I thought that was the follow-up from our discussion from the retreat so I'm I'm feeling let down here one clarifying question my my memory of the retreat is that we we asked if there was staff capacity for

[183:01] looking at SOS and we were told that there is and so that we we were gonna not kind of pump that over to the consultant because there was staff capacity so I'm confused by the scoping of it now especially if we've been doing work on it which and I don't think we would have focused so hard on it at the mid at the midterm Retreat if we hadn't thought we were acting on it during this Council like I I I'm I am surprised that we we have not driven It Forward because otherwise that could have just waited until the next Council if we weren't if we weren't doing anything with it I appreciate that and I'll defer to kurd I mean I I think what I uh I don't think I recall seeing as we reviewed the recording um is that uh Kurt was very specific about not necessarily being able to do a whole lot and dedicate staff time until we move forward with the day Services Center that conversation got a little skewed as we talked about the possibility of a consultant that did get

[184:00] a little muddled on on what was happening um and to capacity I would defer to Kurt and his team on what they could do or whatnot knowing that this was a discussion that we had and there was interest I actually appreciate that they have done some work on this Arena yeah so we've um we weren't anticipating doing a full update on um uh safe camping at at the September meeting we could we could introduce uh information on that um basically based on the work that we've done over the last few months we have been focusing on um the basically the four new programs that have been you know initiated this year one is which is in process which is probably about two or three more programs that we typically do in a year it's been a very full year

[185:00] um so our intent was after the day service center was further along to be able to focus on this I don't think that prevents us however from focusing a part of the memo on this and we certainly can make that part of the conversation and I would certainly appreciate that Nicole if that's the will of counsel things um and one of the other things I think I'd mentioned this at The Retreat as well is that we've had some opportunities where folks have given us some feedback in the past few years so I think it was 2022 maybe some or sorry summer of 2020 where have an HRC kind of did a joint group to issue some recommendations around homelessness I think there were a couple of white papers that came out of that one of which was around these kind of micro Community type ideas and I'm just wondering if that might be for whatever reason I always struggle to find that document so I'm just wondering if it

[186:02] could be something that's included we can provide those as attachments yes that information yeah thank you piling the work right here for you can you also add to that different types of safe outdoor spaces particularly like um palette that type thing and also whether or not we could add wraparound services to those options for safe outdoor spaces so in other words not just the safe outdoor space but also with wraparound services that's my personal opinion so I'm hoping that we can dump that in there as well yeah I think that the white paper that happened HRC did on if I'm remembering correctly on Tiny home kinds of things like I think the 2023 language would be micro communities but I think that they they did get to some of that so I'm just I'm trying to think about you know how can we use stuff that's already out

[187:01] there to yeah yeah In fairness I think the that white paper was a summary I think it was about a page and a half long or two pages long um and um so it doesn't provide like budget information it provides ideas um but we can um I think most of these safe outdoor spaces do have a component of of services the fact that they all do we can we can certainly include what that looks like um and um yeah so I'll stop there okay thanks for that Kurt I just wanted to say that if I just on a process note here that um we didn't tee this up as a time when we were giving a knot of five or giving any direction or making a decision so I I think it's really helpful to give some hopefully some direction about what we get at that September 20th this study session but Rachel if we're going to make more of a decision about changing things we're probably going to need to

[188:01] cue that up for another time because I don't think we've given notice about that but so I just want to throw that out from a process perspective I think I would just reiterate then my request to CAC from February to please TF our post Retreat discussions for a vote you so I would look to like can we I mean I'm looking at our next few meetings and they're really crowded and this is not a simple thing but I at the same time I agree with Rachel that I feel like there's been a gap here in terms of the intentions that we had at The Retreat and you know the amount that we've been able to follow up from them so I just might look to you about what next steps might be there I appreciate that um I I appreciate there has been a gap I I really encourage everyone to look back at that Retreat and the conversation that ensued um but what I'm hearing from Council is that they very much would like a the September 20th I believe meeting to include options on safe outdoor spaces

[189:00] that conversation at the midterm check-in included things like tiny homes or what was the term micros micro communities pallet shelters and certainly some camping and so there is an expectation that we include some of that at that meeting um if there is a desire to have a more definitive Direction and instruction then certainly we can take that up at CAC and figure out how to schedule it meetings are full of something yeah I know our stuff's full um but that point in time count was Beyond sobering um I think we all anecdotally knew where it was headed and then to sort of have that hit like a two by four kind of hit you of that's where we're at on numbers so there's there's a sobering urgency so however we can wedge it in even if it's just a little bit in the front end of a

[190:00] on a special meeting from a study session I just um it'd be hard for us to get through this year this winter um without some clarity on where we're going because that study session still won't give us some concrete and it'll still roll well into 2024. so I don't know that's um that that's just sort of my my frustration but it's where we are so I guess I'd maybe look to council to uh if is this something that we would like to have for a scheduling item before the September 28th study session yeah response question I guess I'd ask Kurt or would you be ready to do something before the September 20th study session no yeah okay I guess that answers the question but however if we're adding it to the work plan that's that seems like a separate conversation then the September update right so and I don't know that has to be a long discussion because

[191:00] um I thought at the end of it you know we had a show of hands like does anybody not want staff to work on this and there were you know a couple hands for that and then is everybody comfortable looking into the consultant so I think we had like a robust discussion and people kind of landed where they were and I don't know other than formalizing that how big of a discussion it needs to be I well I would say rich I I mean I know we did talk this over at the midterm Retreat we we can't touch these issues without substantive discussions like they're very complex and they're controversial so I don't know that we could do something quickly I don't know I feel like I sat out there and watched watched you all have a notify like do we want to add an assault weapons ban and it was like midnight and the hands went up so there was not a robust discussion of the assault weapons ban that night it was just like notify were we adding that so I I do think that we we can say formalizing we asked staff to work on the same you know safe outdoor spaces

[192:03] Nicole yeah and I think because I've heard a couple of different things and so are you talking about safe outdoor spaces are you talking about consultant like what's the I think I think both of them would need to be you know better understood because I think there's a question of did women a consultant in conjunction because there was a difference of opinion I think at The Retreat like is that a consultant that's for the city or for working with HSBC so I I don't know how colleagues feel about that I think that it was a little bit more I thought that we got to like we would like staff to work on SOS because I thought there was staff capacity for that coming in like April and then April got you know punted to August and I understand that um but I don't think that we formalized that and I think that was was due to we were told at the beginning of the treat we can't do a not a five here at the retreat and so then I just don't think we ever went back and and had had

[193:00] a anything on consent saying here's what we voted on or here's what we should vote on is that right Theresa sorry I was just going to say that um certainly you can do a not of five tonight if that is the will of counsel to add this to our work plan if you choose and then we would scope whatever that looked like and come back with timelines for you but I think the question you're asking is whether there is Will of counsel to add safe outdoor spaces to the work plan and that is I guess what we're waiting to hear and then what has to usually we hear from staff like what are we cutting before we have that vote so that's why maybe I mean on that one I think it is fair to say let's come back to it next week or the week after to me I don't think it has to wait till September but like can we understand what that work plan trade-off is but I don't think that we have to have a robust discussion of it was what I was pushing back on to Mayor Brackett like I I think we had a pretty meaty discussion

[194:01] at The Retreat of like we didn't we didn't want to punt that to the um whoever the consultant was going to be that is still I think ill-defined but I do think there was consensus like I remember going down the the line and you know Tara had some specific questions and you know about would we be looking at the pallet homes and um you know I think there was discussion about I don't know yeah so so then that's a more focused yes point there and that that feels like something that is potentially manageable For an upcoming meeting what I'm hearing then is could staff come back earlier than September and at least provide what would the trade-offs be and the timing If This Were to be put on the work plan is that something that we can do earlier so if I could just give a little feedback that hopefully will be helpful um so I I also recall several conversations along the way um that we were going to focus the big project for this year really was the day

[195:01] service center and we would have capacity after getting that up I think we were clear also that um it was a little bit of an undefined schedule because there are so many unknowns to that to that initiative and so our our plan was I think we heard certainly majority of council members that wanted us to look at that and that's why we have made some progress when we've been able to around that so our Focus has been to get the day Center open and then um if council's still agreeable to that to shift in that direction the other thing that I'll add is the the RFP is is being sort of put together at this time over the next month and with the I'm sorry for the with the consultant and um Rachel and I spoke a couple days ago about this we can also

[196:00] if if we got a bit of guidance tonight we could create an aspect of that RFP that can almost be bid you know separately so either a separate consultant could focus just on that component of work or it could be combined you know with one RFP depending on how the um Consultants would sort of bid on it um so it was like a concrete next step it does so we would we would be glad you know to do that so uh would people be comfortable with me asking whether there's a not a five for this RFP to include a scope of services to examine safe outdoor spaces as well as the current scope I mean could include safe outdoor spaces but I think what Kurt and I were talking about was like a separate analysis of of the Homeless Solutions and gaps from City of Boulders perspective so not just SOS but like what um as opposed to just getting

[197:00] one report that that is what is HSBC going to do have as a sub component of that RFP and correct me if you're thinking of a different you know establishing tonight miscommunications quite easy um but that we would get a sort of a 1B portion of the contract that would be just for the city of Boulder to for somebody to bid on advising us on our homelessness Solutions I guess in gaps it could including safe outdoor spaces as a potential option it it could include at The Retreat I think we said we don't want to hold up SOS waiting for a consultant's report like I I think that was part of what the majority at The Retreat set is like yeah that that's great they can advise us on that but if we can do it faster we don't want to wait on that so but uh Rachel in terms of what I'm asking for then is to add to the RFP examination of the specific gaps and needs in the boulder homeless services and solutions is that what you're talking about yeah

[198:00] city of Boulder does that get to what you're thinking Kurt um that that is not what I was thinking okay um I I would say that about 75 of the homeless exits in our County come through the city of Boulder yes um and um so looking at the whole system um is is going to give clear information on potential gaps in how we work within our city what I was describing what I thought we talked about was ensuring that there was a component that also focused on um you know providing further information on other cities and how that could work in Boulder to have safe outdoor spaces so this RFP that you're you're issuing or thinking about issuing that we may be modifying

[199:00] um What's the timing on that what what was the response time um so the the RFP would be sort of adjudicated in I think it was December um RFP will be going out in September I believe late September um and then so we assumed they would start uh in January okay so what if there was instruction from Council to modify the RFP tonight which sounds like something you're willing to do um this is when we say we're using the word adding to the work plan but we don't really mean adding to the work line we need adding to your work plan but we're we're not making a decision with respect to Safe outdoor spaces we don't even know what the options are with respect to Safe outdoor spaces we're just saying hey can you tweak your RFP to include this and you'll be coming back to whoever's on Council in January to say this is this is who we hired and this is their timeline that's correct we're doing the work so so this is Maybe to Ritual to your earlier point that

[200:00] Kurt feels confident that the city of boulders systems will be evaluated but do we want to maybe is that sufficient do you think it's certainly not what I was asking for I think that um we having something that's independent from the county and our own analysis would be helpful so I'm going to take a crack at something which is to potentially that we could give direction that the RFP be modified uh such that it would include an examination of um safe outdoor spaces and other micro Community Options for the city of Boulder uh while also as part of the larger evaluation specifically examining the unique situation of the city as part of that larger system and where we might need some unique approaches

[201:01] just call the timeout yeah I think phone a friend two friends I've been staring at this you don't like chocolate too sweet yes um so the committee um so I um I think the challenge is that what we do in the city is part of a bigger system um so I I do believe I mean we can introduce the language I think as you've described Aaron I think it's going to come out one way or another I'm not concerned about us not having

[202:00] the evaluation reflect on the work that we do in our city so I'm happy to accept that language I think it will work within this if however if we want a separate um RFP to do an evaluation of the system in Boulder and look at safe outdoor camping separately or other options we need to hire our own consultant and not collaborate with HSBC we have a budget for evaluation it would take us I think a second budget or we say we're just not participating in the HSBC evaluation in my mind the idea of having a consultant to kind of look at this is really about giving them the freedom to kind of explore holistically what's going on what are we doing here in the city um and so I like the idea of leaving the

[203:02] consultant open that way but I think one of the really critical questions that I'm hearing from some of my colleagues is really around what can Bolder uniquely do that you know we are a part of the system there are clearly things that are missing within the system there are probably things that are working well and what is our component of that and and that to me feels like an interesting kind of sub question to explore in this bigger system that is being thought about potentially you know revamped with new recommendations what's our unique component in there and I don't know if that kind of out there I think we can do our best to work with that suggestion so thanks Nicole dude something else yeah sorry I just I just had um one one more thing because I think [Music] um

[204:00] for me this issue of the safe outdoor spaces micro communities whatever we want to call them um that really ties into the day Center as well and so for me that discussion like I I would love to know where things are at because my biggest concern frankly is this winter and what's coming and if you know we don't have a space for people to be like in an emergency shelter kind of situation when it gets cold and all of that do we need to be exploring some different options and so for me that that is part of a sort of holistic conversation and I'm not sure where exactly that fits in but I think one one thing that I would what piece of information I would like to have is if it looks like we may not have a day Center up and running by the time the cold weather hits do we need to explore some different options for helping folks survive the winter so I mean I guess you know could wait till September 28th that seems or 20th that seems a little bit late so if we

[205:00] know sooner that we're not going to have something up and running by the cold weather can we then bring it back to have a discussion about what our plan is yeah I think we'll certainly have a more defined schedule prior to September at the end of September yes and and we'll be able to sell I'm sorry uh communicate that publicly through hotline as well great Point Nicole thank you for that um so I I put out some proposed direction to shape this RFP and so I just want to see if Council has interest in that direction and giving that direction I guess I'll I'll ask for for nods are people interested in adding that into the RFP direction that we're giving so can we clarify because I thought I heard Kurt say we can't add really what we're asking for to the County's RFP that we would have to have our own independent is that not where we are I think we can do it through the county um I think we can um use use the this proposal to identify the components that are you know related to the the city work

[206:02] um and um if if that changes through our conversation with with HSBC though at our next meeting um I can let Council know of any concerns that might come up so I would just add um from and Kurt and I talked about this analogy like in the legal world you cannot represent a husband and wife in a divorce like you know if there's a conflict there you you really um you know if it's a not an amicable separation you don't represent both parties so I would want to understand that like whatever the subcontract is we're really getting non-conflicted information about like what what the gaps are that affect the city of Boulder that might be you know maybe adversarial with the county so it I think part of that has to be like the duty would run to the city of Boulder in that subcontract so as long as as long as that is in there I'd be fine with it I think the only detail that I would add

[207:00] is we we often talk about HSBC as the county HSBC Is Us so we are we are part of that that one I think we still need to come back to are we doing a not a five to add SOS to the work plan like are we adding that to a meeting coming up let's get through this one if we can please so so there's the direction that I stated on the record or is there are people majority of people interested in giving that direction to a guide to RFP this is what it is because I'm still a little unclear okay so um let's I'll see if I can get it right the second time but the um give direction to to add to the RFP and evaluation of safe outdoor spaces and other micro communities that could be utilized and also to look at the unique circumstances and needs of Boulder as part of our homeless strategies and solutions

[208:06] to me those were two kind of separate things I think what I was just looking for was like a holistic view of what's Boulder's unique role in all of this um with a discussion of some of the safe outdoor spaces coming up in anticipation of winter when we get an update on what's going on with the day Center so I think can we split those how about how about I switch the order that might do it so if we say that you know examine Boulder's unique situation needs and gaps with respect to homeless services and solutions and as part of that look uh evaluate the potential for safe outdoor spaces and micro communities and this is just about the RFP we can talk about there are other things going on too but the safe outdoor spaces discussion just be focused on city of Boulder or is that within the county as well I mean I'm asking for it about it would be part of the Hall County discussion

[209:02] so the safe outdoor spaces would be focused to the city of Boulder I believe yes so I mean people can suggest amendments if they want but we're also dragging on I um I would hope that the county or the HSBC also will be looking at SOS but I I'm gonna semi-reluctantly vote for this because I don't think I'm going to get something better during my tenure on Council it's you know it's been five to six months since the retreat and and we didn't I thought we were getting a consultant like right after the retreat so I'm in about yes in in hopes that this moves forward that said I think we were pretty crisp at The Retreat this was not going to hold up the SOS so that part two's coming next okay so ask for nods for people comfortable with that direction like you get kind of okay I got I got nods so we got that direction thank you Kurt

[210:02] for talking that through um but uh I don't think we're done well just the the second part I think of the retreat discussion was moving staff moving forward aside from a consultant with possibly prepping SOS I think in anticipation of this year yet and so um you know I think it'd be great to get an update in September but I sounds like we need a more crisp request from staff to let us know what a work plan trade-off is in a timeline is so my my request would just be some sort of indication of do we want to schedule that for next week or the week after or as soon as we can to um get an understanding of did we add that to the work plan at The Retreat or are we adding it now and what the trade-offs are all right yeah I um I'm not quite sure we're going to get a lot of clarity from what happened at the midterm check-in and I appreciate that and if others viewed it differently

[211:00] I'm happy to re-look at that what I think would be helpful actually is just to move forward and what I'm hearing is can you bring sooner uh what what would it take what would it look like to add this to the work plan that is not doing the work as much as scoping a little bit of the scoping and when I say scoping it's timeline and resource and where we are in other work and could we bring that to the council sooner that's what I'm hearing is that accurate so the question maybe Kurt is is that something that we could and maybe if that is the direction and we get that nod if we can look at staff time and see how quickly we can bring that forward we can work on that I don't know if Kirk can commit right now to I can have that ready in two weeks right or or what that looks like but I hear the commitment or the ask is can we bring that sooner than September at the end of September so that then Council can take a a final vote or a direction on yes we think that's worth it and we want to add it to the work plan

[212:00] is that what you would like us to do let's come back as soon as we can I'd be interested in that so I need Clarity on what we would be coming back with in a couple of weeks is this to have a wider discussion of if it goes on the work plan or not or I believe Kurt that there is a there is a desire to inquire whether or not what it would take to put safe outdoor spaces however that may be defined right that could be micro communities that could be camps um what it would take to what it would look like to have that on our work plan and if they if there was a yes right and so that's the question sure is that clear and that I could be at a high level right like we're not talking about a detailed every every step of the plan and could probably be a an information item to let us know what that would be that we could then use as part of a discussion I think we can do an IP maybe in a

[213:00] couple weeks okay now that'd be really helpful great yeah Nicole can I just um just ask for kind of a specific thing there too so I know you're coming to us to talk about four different things that have been started this year um I think one of one of the things that would be interesting to know is especially how does it impact on those four things so yes process clarification if we get an IP we we I think we do need to raise our hands at some point to this so I don't know that an IEP is the presentation we want it to come back in so I think the the IP could would give us an information and then a council member could request it being brought forward for not a five at a meeting okay can I just request that that IP get hotlined so any community members who are watching can easily find that and and it will sometimes I sometimes let's say I didn't read the packet till today I might not get all the way to the IP and so like I want to make sure that that is flagged would be helpful I believe we can respond instead of an nip in a hotline form we have done

[214:01] that before we can send a hotline out on what a scope would look like even just saying hey check out the IP yeah we'll work it out Kurt you've been very patient thank you for working all this through with us thank you I think we're set for now and with that any final thoughts uh we're we're going to give Tara a birthday present of ending before 10 pm it's at 9 30. I'll gavel is closed thank you