July 13, 2023 — City Council Regular Meeting

Transcript

Captions from City of Boulder YouTube recording.

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[9:03] foreign [Music] thank you [Music] if we can start recording good evening everyone and welcome I'm going to Gallow us in to the July 13 2023 special meeting of the Boulder City Council thank you for

[10:01] joining us tonight uh we're going to start um with uh I've called to order and we will start with a roll call all right thank you mayor and good evening everyone and welcome back we'll start tonight's roll call with council member Benjamin present mayor Brockett president councilmember falcon present friend here Joseph here spear here mayor Pro Tim Wallick right here councilmember weiner president and Yates I'm here mayor we have our quorum thanks so much Alicia so now I would like to ask for a motion to amend the agenda to make three changes and they are to add item 1A which is a declaration for Parks and Recreation month presented by council

[11:01] member Joseph item 5A which is discretion on proposed unification of ballot measures that seek to extend the 0.15 sales tax and item 5B discussion extending midterm recruitment for the boards or commissions that did not receive any applications they all moved second we have a motion in a second uh chauvin's all in favor I think that's unanimous so the agenda has been duly amended which means that we now have an item 1A to do which is the Declaration for Parks and Recreation month Ginny thank you mayor Brockett parks and Rex Recreation month July 23. since 1985 people in the United States have celebrated Parks and Recreation month in July recognizing the power of Parks and Recreation and building strong vibrant

[12:02] and resilient communities here in Boulder parks and recreation promotes health and wellness improving the physical and mental health of our community by operating or local parks recreation centers and other special green spaces like the Pearl Street Mall and Boulder Reservoir Parks Foster time spent in nature which positively impacts mental health by increasing cognitive performance and well-being and alleviating illnesses such as depression attention deficit disorders and Alzheimer's Parks encourages physical activities by providing space for sports swimming walking relaxing and many other activities designed to promote Healthy Lifestyles

[13:01] through our parks and works program we strive to make Boulder more resilient through infrastructure designed to help our community and natural disasters and to mitigate against climate change all local parks also Foster environmental stewards who advocates who advocate for and protect or most precious public resources or lands water trees and open spaces and Wildlife our parks and wrecks promote access for all by ensuring that all people in our community can recreate they do this through award-winning programming for people with disabilities through or expand program targeted services for youth and older adults and programs that address Financial barriers

[14:02] to participation the theme for this year's Parks and Recreation month is where community grows recognizing that Parks and Recreation builds Community by providing spaces for people to connect celebrate volunteer partner and play these connections to Nature and each other are more important than ever the U.S House of Representatives in the state of Colorado have designated July as Parks and Recreation month the Boulder City Council is delighted to join them by declaring that July is Clark and Recreation month in the city of Boulder we appreciate the team mates across the city and our partners across the community who take care of our green spaces and provide Recreation

[15:01] opportunities that meet the needs of all members of our community through our great facilities and programs now I pass the mic to Ali Rhodes from Parks and Rec for further reflection thank you Juni thank you so much for that and thank you uh members of council um we're virtual tonight and so I'm speaking on behalf of our team uh I hope next year we can time this in person and you'll have an audience full of folks And Hive is yellow and our logo because um I'm speaking on their behalf tonight and they're truly incredible I do have a few thoughts to share um as Juni said in the Declaration Parks and Recreation month is celebrated across the country but it's especially appropriate that we celebrate it here in Boulder where we have an incredible Parks and Recreation system um that truly is a symbol of our community's long-held values for um and support for Parkland great public spaces and well-being with the community support through visits to our facilities votes for funding and volunteerism we're

[16:02] able to deliver a system that is one of the best in the nation from experts in forestry to yoga to soil to ecology and water chemistry our employees are also one of the reasons that Boulder has such an incredible system and Parks and Recreation month is an opportunity to recognize and appreciate their expertise their passion and their commitment to this community I'm so grateful for each of them and hope that if you see someone out in that Hive as yellow in a park or in a logo in one of our facilities or taking care of kids at one of our camps that you'll take a moment to thank them too the community's support is a gift we don't take lightly um Parks and Recreation as mentioned in the Declaration and from the national um Association we know it can be a solution to so many of the ills facing our nation today including incivility mental health challenges inactivity nature deficits and loneliness Parks and Recreation was created over 100 years ago as a solution to the challenges facing our cities and we're committed to honoring our community's support and being a solution here in Boulder we also

[17:01] have to appreciate and recognize that there are Partners providing recreation in our community organizations like Boulder tennis Association the North Boulder little league and boho pickleball are key to delivering on our community's goals for parks and recreation summer volunteer-led and we thank them for their time some are non-profit organizations and we thank them for their expertise there are too many to call out tonight but we'll be thanking them all and to be honest we're so grateful for all of them nearly half a million people visit our Recreation facilities last year and we know that in a typical year over 95 percent of our community members visits Boulders parks and while we serve everyone we're especially proud of our work to ensure access for all just today I received some mid-year numbers and through June both enrollments and visits through our financial aid program are up over 20 percent last year and this number's stunning visits through our free Access program record are up 181 since 2019. this is a reflection of both increased need but also our teammates efforts to make the program better known

[18:01] and easier to access this is also a great opportunity to share some exciting projects ahead to fill what the community has told us is most important taking care of what we have we have projects underway to invest in tennis courts and to replace past its life cycle equipment at North Boulder Park a new restaurant an event lawn is underway at the Flatirons Golf Course one of our most exciting projects though is actually new is we finally develop Violet Park we've begun Community engagement to complete this critical Gap in the system and in this project we're going to reimagine how local identities and cultural preferences can shape the look feel and function of neighborhood park that is truly unique to this community we're also eager to be including strategies for climate ready Landscapes and flood resilient design there's so much more I could highlight and share but as I started with I've seen your agenda and know you have a lot to do tonight the recognition of Parks and Recreation and the teammates in our department is so important and we're grateful for your time thanks so much for that Ali and on

[19:01] behalf of the entire city council an enormous thank you to you and your amazing department for running our extraordinary Parks and Rec facilities we're just so grateful so it can't it's very good well that was lovely and uh now Elisha if we can move to our consent agenda please oh you're muted yes sir I was I was getting to that it is you know I'm out of practice all right thank you uh mayor and our next item on tonight's agenda is item number two our consent agenda it consists of items a 2A through 2C great does anyone have questions comments or perhaps motion regarding consent agenda I make a motion to pass our consent agenda second we've got a motion and a second this is a show fans vote all in favor raise your

[20:00] hand and that looks unanimous okay the consent agenda passes unanimously so Elise if we can go to our first public hearing please yes sir thank you our public hearings tonight are item number four for a is the review and comment on the proposed site development plan for New Vista High School proposing to replace the existing School building at 720th street with a new approximately 74 000 square foot two-store two-story High School new sports field an enlarged parking lot and updated access this is reviewed under case number lur 2023-00017 and for that mayor we have Shannon Mohler here from uh pnds to kick us off all right great thank you so much good evening council members I'm Shannon Mohler with the city of Boulder Planning and Development Department I'll just

[21:00] provide a real quick overview of the review and comment tonight for New Vista High School so this particular review is being done pursuant to State Statute and not through the city's typical processes Colorado revised statutes 2230 to 124 listed here requires the Board of Education of a school district to submit a site development plan for review and comment to the Planning Commission or governing body of a municipality prior to construction of a new building uh this state law does not further describe the review process or specify review criteria so in this case staff approach the review process similar to a concept plan we use the typical review criteria and focused on policy considerations in the Boulder Valley comprehensive plan so similar to that process no approval or denial is being taken on the item tonight the planning commit the planning board held a public hearing on the item on May 16th and city

[22:01] council chose to call up the item for tonight's public hearing back on June 1st so the properties in approximately 12 and a half acre site located northwest of Broadway and Baseline it contains the existing New Vista High School building that includes existing buildings parking and recreational fields the underlying vvcb land use designation is primarily public reflecting the current High School use and the zoning is residential high five and public schools are allowed by Wright The Proposal is a replacement of the existing building with the new approximately 74 000 square foot two-story building that's proposed the school district has determined that the existing building is no longer able to serve the needs of the high school population the replacement building is proposed to be located next to the existing building and following completion of the new building the existing building would be demolished

[23:00] the parking area in the southwest corner of the site would be updated as well with a new one-way pickup and drop-off Lane updated access additional parking and new bike parking at the planning board hearing on May 16th the board think the school district for their presentation and for sharing their decision-making process they provided feedback on the site development plan including on the proposed energy efficient building design the site layout and the vehicular parking the board approved a motion to draft a letter to the bvsd board of education to incorporate the staff memo and summarize and note the planning board's input on the future School design then on June 1st Council chose to call up the item for tonight's public hearing staff recommends the review and comment discussion relate to the concept plan review and comment guidelines as was done at planning board and primarily the policies of the BBC P that applied to

[24:01] the proposal the one staff identified at the planning board hearing are listed on this slide please note that in the interim bvsd has been working to incorporate some of the recommendations that came out of the planning board hearing and the call-up discussion excuse me representatives from the school district are here tonight and would like to share those updates with Council as part of this item and lastly in terms of the review process the city is reviewing and commenting on the proposal per state statute but isn't a decision-making body on the item the school district isn't required to go through a site review process and new construction of schools is permitted through the state so as mentioned earlier the planning board approved a motion to draft a letter to the Board of Education incorporating the staff memo and summarizing and noting the board's input if counsel so chose you could make a similar motion tonight

[25:01] such as the one shown on this slide and then staff could incorporate council's feedback from tonight into such a letter and provide that on to the school district so that concludes the Quick Step presentation and we have representatives from bvsd here as well thank you so much for that Shannon you know what I'm going to recommend that we move to the applicant presentation from bbsd next since they're proposing some changes from what we saw in our packet I think it'd be good for us to hear about those and then perhaps we can ask questions for either the applicant or staff after they make their presentation are people all right with that okay great so if I can turn to our bvsd Representatives please and I'll hand the floor over to you all right good evening council members um my name is Chris top and again I'm the executive director for the bond

[26:01] for mbbsd uh joining me tonight are Rob rice assistant superintendent of operations for vvsd and Jack Russo our principal architect for Moa architecture tonight we hope to be able to provide additional information about the New Vista High School Bond project and answer any questions brought up at our June 1 meeting the review process with planning board is a bit unique on both sides and that we have not participated in the comment process like this with the planning board in the past District feels we've learned a lot we've developed a good working relationship with the planning board through this process so we want Count city council and the planning board to know that we did hear your comments and we've spent time evaluating each one in relation to our design we believe that feedback makes projects better we appreciate the input from Council and the planning board oops sorry um so we we do fail to design a new best to reflect Our Community Values

[27:00] people-centered design efficiency and Community use the design for this project have been a collaborative process Jack and Rob have been involved since the beginning of our design advisory team meetings uh when we selected MOA architecture after a competitive process in the fall of 21. Jack we'll talk more here in a bit to our design iterations the challenges we faced and the changes our team has incorporated our response to the comments we received from the planning board the community involvement and building design how the district came to the decision to put a rebuild of the school in November 2022 ballot began with developing a working group in December of 2020. it had been determined then that the building deficiencies at New Vista exceeded the budget and scope work of the then 2014 bvsd facilities master plan Community engagement fiduciary responsibility have been recurring themes throughout this design process

[28:01] and our duty to UPS hold the bond promise so it was important that the working group include voices from the community as well as people directly connected to the school in addition to teachers students and parents bdsd sought out members from the neighborhood the community Bond oversight committee and larger Community which comprised about 23 stakeholders evaluating on the perceived the project the group considered how well a shop should meet the prioritized objectives constructing a new building on the same site with stronger option for priorities related directly to student Community experience minimize the impact during construction meeting educational goals improving health and well-being value of the learning environments was Paramount a new building was stronger with a stronger option in terms of ongoing operations maintenance costs and sustainability and Longevity as well

[29:00] you'll see the cost really of the extensive renovation versus new build new build became pretty apparent that was um more desirable and more effective way to go so traffic studies feedback we heard through the stakeholder group as well as site and surrounding Street analysis played a key role in evaluating the placement of the building and the design with that I'd like to turn over to Jack so he can talk more of the details of this thank you Chris and good evening mayor Barca members of council it's a pleasure to be with you tonight and share the development of New Vista High School as we are moving forward Chris you want to go to the next slide so I'll start here this is the existing site and layout with the existing building on the New Vista property you can see it paralleling 20th Street um some of the um constraints that we've been dealing with in the development of the design of the New Vista one is the access to

[30:01] parking as you can see on the existing site the parking is accessed from one point off a baseline that's a right in and write out only that parking lot accommodates 75 striped parking stalls but because New Vista is so desperate for parking there are about 20 stalls or parking view parked vehicles that cram themselves into the site in addition to the 75 so approximately 95 vehicles are parked on a daily basis during the school months the building as you can see uh is operational when we need that to maintain its School building function until the new building is open that leaves us the eastern half of the what I'm going to call the upper site uh there is kind of an upper site and then a lower bench that drops down at Broadway uh as the really the available property for uh the

[31:01] new building uh well the existing building maintains its operation under construction um some of the other issues significant issues with this existing site there is no vehicular drop-off other than off of Baseline or off of 20th there is no off-site vehicle drop-off area that makes it a very unsafe condition for parents friends Etc to be dropping or picking up students before or after school we worked very hard to resolve that we also want to create that and maintain that great relationship to the lower portion of the site there's a functioning Playfield down there that we want to maintain a great relationship to as well as a great relationship to our University of Colorado neighbors next slide please Chris uh you can see on the right then our current site plan and in the lower left is in the black and white is a site plan

[32:00] that was presented first to council back in May we've made some modifications since that time based on your comments uh you can see the parking as it was described by Shannon in the southwest corner of the parking or of the the site it has two access points one off a Baseline and then it empties out on the 20th the parking lot has designed has 99 stalls we actually reduced it by 18 since your May 1st comments to help bring into some alignment your thoughts as well as the needs of the school and then the parking lot is developed in a much safer configuration really focusing on vehicular movements the safe drop off area and then safe exit out of the parking lot onto 20th rather than on the Baseline the building pushes itself up on the uh the bench of the site and really has a four Court of a really wonderful Green Space Outdoor Learning

[33:00] areas Etc we've also separated a service drive from the parking area which is not uh currently happening at New Vista and that's another safety concern uh we've got some great opportunities uh left for future student Gardens that will help reduce some of our needed sod area we've got two locations for bike racks we actually doubled those from what we had preliminarily shown to you we've got 64 bike stalls now we've also added a sidewalk link between the sidewalk parallel and Baseline and coming up to our main entry and that's adjacent to where the bike racks are right by our main entry uh I really want to stress that the the design of the site is really focused on what we call a student-centric campus really built around the needs and uses that the students have that the faculty has for the students those Outdoor Learning spaces are really

[34:02] critical to how students or how students learn how teachers teach these days and we really wanted to make sure that this campus really focuses and promotes those sorts of activities we also explored a multi-use path at one point during the design of the project leading from CU over to this site that's very challenging with this site because of the grade changes there's about a 25 percent slope to navigate but I do want to stress we do have a handicap access between the upper portion of the site and the lower athletic field and that's behind on the on the east side of the school going from our parking lot and Main entry and down onto the athletic field site next slide Chris the early design iterations and early design concept are kind of represented in the lower left hand corner when we began the design of the building we had some very ambitious goals and

[35:01] um and combination with Boulder Valley Schools to develop a a school that reflects the unique academic functions in academic givings of New Vista High School but also incorporates the highest levels of sustainability that the budget would allow we looked at components like a Geo exchange system like chilled beams the curved building design and the building actually at one point we were studying sitting on a crawl space of accessible crawl space under the building uh I think we're all cognizant of uh our inflationary times and the impacts that certainly the last several years have had on construction costs have been very impactful and unfortunately that's caused us to have to step back a bit uh on our Ambitions but not lose sight of the goals for a high level of sustainability in the building for a building that really reflects the unique

[36:00] activities in nature of New Vista High School both inside and out a building that is really reaching out to greet the students and the community both through the building's design and the site's design next one Chris uh so some of the features of the building as it is designed today uh we are um again very focused on sustainability and Energy savings and energy use the building as it's designed currently has an eui of 36 the existing building has a rating of 87. we've brought that down um tremendously we also feel with the building being designed to be solar ready that at a point in the future when solar panels may be installed on the building that eui will drop even further our lighting power use is 40 to 60 percent less than the 2021 energy code minimums we're incorporating systems like energy

[37:01] recovery rtus High efficient high efficiency gas boilers DX cooling systems uh energy recovery or rtus Advanced Energy metering on the building all of these are leading to a highly a efficient building from an energy use standpoint but also being fiscally responsible within the District budget one of the the goals the district certainly has is to maintain the the building's Design Within the established Bond budget and also retain and a level of equity between the costs of not only this building but other buildings funded by Bond measures within the district other sustainability features of the project low flow Plumbing fixtures non-potable irrigation on the site and are continuing to evolve our xeriscape design and looking at things like our

[38:02] student Gardens and xeriscape elements within the landscape next one Chris I apologize my computer locks up for just a moment and I'm unlocked now um I I mentioned uh early on a real focus on student-centered building design uh and that means not only the building once it's completed its construction but the whole design and construction process we've had students engaged in the design Advisory Group process that's really been wonderful to hear their voices um as we've developed the design of the school uh the one of the major tenets of the building design was minimal disruption during construction that's why the building is set back as much as

[39:02] we can from the existing building that's why we're not tearing the building down until the new building is complete we're not moving students off site to demolish the building and build a new building on top of the site that the existing building ones there was all of those are very disruptive processes to student learning and really can affect learning outcomes for years and years uh Beyond just their initial impact so we really feel that the decisions we've made to place the building where it was where it is to provide the programs the stem and project-based learning spaces Etc in the building really focus on not only student-centered design but New Vista students and their design needs we have smaller instructional spaces to match the program size and um and and academic offerings of the programs here we have advisory rooms throughout the building those are really

[40:00] small group spaces where an advisor gets together with five or six students individually we have presentation and performance spaces that are not only spread throughout the building but are really unique as you'll see in some instances we have an art gallery and display spaces immediately as you walk into the building to show off student work and really celebrate the goings on here we also are going to incorporate a history display within the bill willing to celebrate the prior history of New Vista the 70 years coming leading up to today will be celebrated on a auto audio visual screen illustrating how the building has developed and changed through its generations to get to where it is today and then I've talked about Outdoor Learning and some of those great opportunities that students will have here next one Chris um these are some of the examples of what uh care and craftsmanship we're taking uh on the exterior of the building in the upper right hand corner

[41:01] is a photograph of an existing building that utilizes uh CMU concrete masonry units uh in its design and construction and you can see that the different textures colors and variations within the use of that material and really what a kind of a wonderful articulation that has in combination with the glass and other elements of the building we're using that same sort of concept here you can see in the lower photograph around our Auditorium the really playful use of different textures different colors and different sizes of CMU the playful development of the glazing system that's actually on the back of our Auditorium and then in in really subtle elements Beyond just the auditorium you can see some of the banding in the CMU we've carried around portions of the wall both on this elevation and then on the

[42:01] rendering Above This facing to our West you can see many of those same elements repeated so the building has a very playful juxtaposition of materials of colors of textures and patterns that really give it we think a Timeless quality and a really unique quality Chris this is a rendering of our gallery of student work this would be just beyond the main entry you can see it really feels like a professional Art Gallery there is a professional or lighting there are really unique little Cubbies for students to sit and communicate and and collaborate but yeah all in the effort to really celebrate the students and the ongoings here at New Vista High School next one uh this is an image of what we call our student Commons this is really the heart

[43:00] of the school and you'll see that in a floor plan in just a minute that's a big open space we don't have a traditional library in New Vista it doesn't today uh it has spaces really focused on student collaboration um access to technology access to resources uh all built within the space that just kind of Flows In and Out of other academic spaces of the building Chris and this is our Auditorium this is one of our really unique spaces most auditoriums you go into are a black box um in New Vista we've chosen to celebrate our relationship to our neighbors to Broadway to CU Boulder and instead of a dark wall on the back of the stage we have a glass wall now we still have the ability to control daylight into the space with Stage curtains Etc so during performance times we can attune the space just like you would want in a

[44:01] performance but we really wanted to celebrate that connection and really afford the opportunity for the community to see in a really unique fashion what's going on at New Vista and for the students to have that great connection out to the Boulder Community Chris our four plans um are really unique in terms of how both program programmatic spaces are defined and laid out in the building but also how the functional program centers around that Commons that student Commons and you can see that on the right hand main level of the building and that Commons is angled so it really has a wonderful Focus right to the flat irons and we have big windows that celebrate that view bring in the daylight and that student Commons and really make it a really wonderful space but you know some of the really unique academic offerings and these haven't changed from the initial design to today even though we've gone through

[45:02] you know cost saving measures Etc the one thing that this building hasn't sacrificed is providing the program spaces and the academic needs that the students here need and demand so we've got a great Auditorium we've got classrooms we've got those advisory rooms we've got a fitness studio we've got lab spaces science classroom spaces Etc all throughout the school it's really going to be a wonderful wonderful academic environment Chris uh and then finally we'll wrap this up uh with a look at the alignment to the Boulder Valley comprehensive plan um I think you'll recognize certainly in the next slide um the support for residential neighborhoods and the process that this project has undertaken to involve our residential Neighbors in our neighborhood to ensure that they've had a voice in the design both of the site and the uh the building here at New

[46:00] Vista the preservation of historical context the biggest element of that is we're not moving we're keeping New Vista on this site it's just a new generation of New Vista and we've got those elements like that historic display within the building to help preserve that historical context design for people for us it's really designed for students but we haven't left out our neighbors either this is really a community focused site with a lot of community opportunity to use the site some of those great outdoor spaces surrounding the building the athletic spaces Etc really provide the community opportunities to use this site but it's really about the students and and the success and safety of the students as well environmentally sensitive design we've talked a lot about the sustainability the importance of urban trees we're actually planting I believe in excess of 66 trees on the site outdoor light pollution pulling the building back from the street Edge certainly helps that I talked about

[47:02] energy efficient design construction waste minimization that will certainly take place all throughout the construction process in particular early during our demolition process and then accessibility of schools that's one of the main features above and beyond the existing New Vista that this building really provides both from a vehicular Transportation accessibility but accessibility within the building I think the existing New Vista has oh if I were to count about five different floor levels within it um very little accessibility in terms of elevator access through those four levels this new building is accessible throughout Chris um and then the last slide here is just our timeline now all the way on the right hand side of this timeline is where we are today uh July of 2023. this project started as a working group back at the end of 2020.

[48:02] um and those working groups uh included members of the um New Vista Community and neighborhoods staff and and District Administrative Personnel Etc uh eventually the design team the architect was hired in the middle of 2021 then we went through a an extensive design advisory team process and that again involved residents within the new vista community staff members students designers Etc over about a 10-month process to develop the design of this school as you recall we've engaged the city of Boulder early in 2022 and have continued that conversation since that time we really appreciate the feedback we got with you in may we listened to it we took it very seriously we incorporated modifications as I've

[49:00] stated where they made sense within the context of the program of the of the building and the needs of the the campus and we've appreciated and enjoyed that collaborative spirit with the city of Boulder every step of the way with that Chris I'll turn it back to you and and that really we just want to open up for discussion and questions and um I'll turn it back to you guys great thanks so much for that Chris and Jack Rob for being here and presenting us with those details so now I'll ask council members if you have any questions for our bbsd visitors or for our city staff mark just a couple um the 35 to 40 million 42 million dollar construction cost do you have that locked in are you is that something you for uh

[50:00] we we have uh maintained that thus far we're uh kind of nearing an initial GMP right now our projections show us in budget um right at about that 42 million um we did just complete construction documents so we still have about another month to six weeks roughly before we get those final numbers in they tend to only go One Direction which is north yeah we were hoping to come in South but you we all know how that goes um can you talk a little bit about what you're going to do what programs you're going to do to minimize construction waste or recycle construction waste yeah um Jack do you want to speak to that or yeah um our our general contractor um has been involved um throughout the um final phases of design uh and we have been looking at um both waste segregation

[51:01] um so um separating out waste from construction materials and in the demolition process as well we'll go through a full abatement process on the building when an existing building when it's torn down we're specifying recycled content and recyclable materials throughout the building as much as we possibly can so that even the back end of the the waste process we're we're pulling waste out of the system and reusing it as recycled materials back into the building but there will be a full um uh the fully developed process by the general contractor that separates out waste materials and separates them for reuse as much as possible we've been able to reduce waste by about 60 percent with the processes on hand and expect to

[52:00] see that happen here as well and we'll do that throughout the demo process as well we have a strong history of recycling Furniture through the building reuse of that and we'll evaluate throughout the whole process thank you and I guess my last question and that's just from my own uh edification when you when you started the planning for this excuse me did you ever consider the uh uh the cross laminated Timber technology um for construction of this building which is a very sustainable way of avoiding uh concrete and steel and and that sort of thing um just out of curiosity you know it it was an early consideration we looked at you know we try to keep our eyes open to a number of choices and opportunities in Building Systems and structural systems uh cross laminated Timber is a

[53:02] um early pioneering system now um unfortunately there well the system is available systems are available there's not a lot of competitive competitive uh bidding within those systems in which drives their costs up considerably we're hoping to see those costs start to come down as those systems become more available but quite honestly when you compare them to uh steel and you know steel well it is uh not a natural well it is a natural material it comes from the earth and ores the majority if not all of the steel used in the building is recycled content um so well we're not using um a mass Timber which has what I would call kind of a sexier name in terms of sustainability if you really look at the use of Steel and where steel comes from uh and where most steel um is manufactured in terms of recycled content is it is truly a sustainable

[54:01] material all right I'm hoping one day to get somebody to do that but uh I am too I am too okay thanks that's that's it for me hey Mr walk we did evaluate that again we asked the team to take another look at that even after this review and comment process and um you know we evaluated again like I said it just became what Jack just described yet again is a local source for that um became tough and then a competitive source as well thanks I appreciate it yes sir all right I got uh Lauren and then I've got one thanks Aaron um I was hoping you could kind of run through just quickly what changes because you mentioned the changes were made after the discussion and I caught the bike racks um I was just wondering what other changes sure I'll I'll summarize and then uh Chris if I forget anything please let me

[55:00] know one of your comments was about you know the preservation of History um so we've looked at um incorporating a visual display within the building uh focusing on the history of New Vista um and helping to educate visitors and students on that history we've reduced our parking by 18 from that initial submission to you and those 18 are actually I think you'll find really important spaces to pull off they were the spaces closest to Baseline they faced the front of the car faced Baseline in those locations so in our winter months the headlights from those Vehicles were shining on the eastbound traffic on Baseline we eliminated those 18 spaces uh the nice thing about the one of the nice things about the layout of the parking lot is it's single loaded

[56:00] against Baseline which means there's only parking on the right hand side on the north side of the drive rather than against that side and against Baseline makes it that we feel a safer and more friendly parking environment and pedestrian environment so that was the second thing uh uh We've added uh four EV charging stations and we've doubled our bike parking up to 64. um uh bike stalls we added that uh sidewalk path from Baseline to the added bike parking which is right at the main entry of the building and then we're currently looking at locations to reduce reduce sod grass landscaping that's one of the impacts that our student Gardens space allows us to do is to pull some of the sod out and

[57:00] use some natural materials we're continuing to look at other opportunities for xeriscape to help reduce sod as well we're also looking at and carrying what's called an alternate in the design to take the athletic field from grass to artificial turf which will reduce sod but also reduce irrigation needs on the site so those are I think those are the primary modifications we've made Chris have I missed anything there um worth the reduction is uh one of the comments plenty of what we came back with just in water use was was drip irrigation and it was a it was a specific deviation that we had that wasn't necessarily important or that we you know intended but it was something that we took to heart and we valued as well and we said yeah we we didn't do involve more drip irrigation the the student Garden we're really looking at Zero Escape uh kind of potential for that instead of a student growing Garden can we look at native plant materials seating Boulders pathways through where

[58:03] it's more of a learning opportunity uh better to maintain and again reducing water use and sod the other thing that we did um Lauren is uh we Revisited you know what our cost modeling looked like for the Geo exchange and chill beams that we have in there um you know that was that was a disappointing part you know for for us as well in this is that we had early estimates of this when we were going through initial design phases approximately you know seven to eight million um as a premium for those systems when we brought a Contractor on board they told us we were a little unrealistic and low on that and they expected tomorrow to drive up around the 10 million dollar Mark which then took away from again the the equity uh of sustaining the bond promise throughout all our projects and the the 50 plus schools that we will be touching um but we we asked to just kind of renew

[59:00] that we're also um looking at what our uh because you see the slope challenges here right and where we're putting this and the the building placement and so can we reduce our footprint a little bit and harvest uh soil from the north lot and then you know use that to bring up our grade the grade is is challenging for the building to make sure we have it structural so um you know reduction in traffic and and just what we can utilize on the site kind of goes to minimizing our construction waste as well is is what can we do to utilize what we currently have there thank you for that um and I'm sorry I'll just say one more thing and then I'll let you go I apologize with the reduction in parking we've increased the trees we actually have about 92 trees we're planning on there so we're up in that landscape and that buffer provides you know just more of that curb appeal that you'll see there thank you thanks for that um with the geothermal I know the last

[60:02] legislature legislative State legislative session there were a lot of um tax credits and things passed for geothermal systems in particular have you guys looked at if any of that helps Bridge some of that Gap I know that they were pretty substantial because there is a strong interest from the state Energy Office to try and prioritize those systems yeah Chris I'll jump in on that this is Lauren this is Rob Price assistant superintendent of operations we have pursued uh some of those opportunities continue to watch them a lot of those opportunities that come along are not well suited for Boulder they're looking for more rural school districts so we've applied for several grants that the solar honor buildings looking at different types of mechanical systems but unfortunately we haven't been successful yet but I can assure you will continue to pursue those grants thank you

[61:03] anything else Lauren that's it for now thanks myself and then Matt my question was um on the site layouts I noticed going to the east from the building to the southeast there was a something marked in Orange and I didn't fully understand what that represented I wonder perhaps if it's easy to bring that slide up yeah just give me one second here I want to compliment everybody this is I think the first Zoom meeting I've been in where nobody has forgot that they're on mute and nobody's had trouble with technology yet except me Jack you just cursed to speak way too soon I'm sure I did no I'm looking to make sure I'm on I'm not on mute is this the slide you're referring to yes that's right so there's that uh Orange bits like to the east

[62:03] thought about right here yep that's it um so whoops if I cannot do that um Jack is this that is this kind of that path excess here that we have that's that goes from concrete to a decomposed Granite if I remember correct um off of Broadway there there's currently a gate uh in the fence right there and that's uh emergency vehicle access for fire department ambulance Etc uh should there be a need to get a vehicle uh over to the athletic field so that is a crush refined Crush Granite path for vehicles to be able to drive and get over to the um the athletic field it then trans transitions to the concrete and then over by the um that little basketball court area gives them the ability to

[63:01] turn around got it okay so the is there uh pedestrian Side Access from the East side at all uh there is not currently that's um the multi-use path that uh has been examined looked at Etc um and as I explained when I was looking at the site plan right where the cursor is is about a um 16 foot elevation change and about a 25 slope um that's very difficult to meet the city of Boulder standards in terms of ADA access up it so creating a um ADA Compliant pedestrian path on the North End of the site coming from Broadway over is is really really difficult are there is it possible to to take it from further to the South like where that vehicle access is or is there

[64:00] reason that that has to be a vehicle access only uh that access I believe has an easement on it that only provides for emergency vehicle access yeah um I I do want to stress mayor Brock that this is this is an issue that is still being discussed evaluated we may find a solution for it um in the narrow or future here um we just haven't landed upon it yet all right thanks for that Matt did you still have a question can I call a question I did but I saw yeah I saw Lauren wanting to call if we go Portland well I was just wondering if that access easement was with the city of Boulder and if we might be able to help with allowing different kinds of access there in terms of bike or pedestrian access

[65:07] Lauren we're happy to continue those discussions to work with City staff to see what we can make happen there great thanks uh Matt so um so the mayor kind of led into where my question was the center is on that multi-use path and I I heard a couple things that I think are quite easily resolved more one was there was concerns about having enough soil and fill for the building well Excavating out to manage that slope from the tunnel will give you some of that dirt um as well as we already are near a high school that has a steep grade on a multi-use path that is Way Beyond Ada standards and that goes by the Arboretum and yet we that is the way it is and so I'm not sure that that's a that should be a limiting factor if we gain that accessibility which is a primary functionality be a student-focused campus and gaining that accessibility on

[66:01] the north side of the athletic field is is a pretty critical thing um and getting people to think about other modes of getting in I know writing on Baseline not that fun um and certainly you know Crossing and the very narrow nature of 20th there with a lot of cards is also equally less fun than if you have a multi-use path getting onto campus so um I I really hope that we can find a way to make that multi-use path extend into what is now a bounty of bike parking on campus so so I really hope we can lean into that yeah and we don't disagree and that is what we're looking at is harvesting that North for the soil and stuff and then um with that we still have drainage and grade and kind of civil considerations for Sheet flow and everything coming off the neighborhood that we're calculating so we we do not disagree I think we're where we've been evaluated is from what the uh bbcp States as far as Ada you know multi-use path and the grade that I asked to maintain and so I think that's

[67:00] where one of our questions lie and as Rob Price said you know we're happy to continue those discussions great thanks for that Matt um okay so that was a good segue from questions to comments uh seeing other questions that people have uh comments for our bvsd visitors Rachel um I'll be brief I just wanted to say thank you for um taking a look at the requests that planning board and some of us made for parking reductions and more bike parking um you know you weren't obligated to to do anything that we asked for or requested you to look at so I just want to say thank you that seems like really good faith um partnering on on trying to improve the community outcomes here so thank you thank you thank you I'll just pop in here and continue with that uh to add to the thank yous um that I do really appreciate the changes that you made that were very responsive to our comments from before from planning board and from Council and

[68:00] I mentioned about better uh bike pit connections from the south and from the west and you've really done that which is fantastic and so really appreciate the flexibility and then just urge you to continue the exploration of like that access from the East and I I don't want to leave uh you know folks with mobility issues out in the cold so I you know hopefully there's an ADA compliance solution out there but uh as you've heard from us I think that'd be positive for circulation and such but just fundamentally thank you for the changes that you've made yeah Matt thanks Aaron um yeah I'll I'll Echo and then add maybe some uh a place for moving forward um we appreciate the quick responsiveness right when you first came to us this was you know design was 100 cooked and there was probably a sense of futility of providing comments and feedback from from some of us so we appreciate that you guys were able to to do that um and and with that said um I think that there's an opportunity as a learning moment here for both of

[69:01] our Sovereign entities to think about process going forward and how we can come at these um really critical infrastructure like schools and communities like Boulder where we can have that collaboration start earlier in the process and and I would say you know we look to you know our friends at CU just like bvsd Sovereign energy doesn't have to do a thing that we would recommend or hope but yet they bring us in very early in the process and therefore some of our recommendations are more effective because they enter in at the ground floor um and I think that always as as uh Chris brought up that collaboration always makes a better product on the back end um and so I'm just hopeful that going forward whether whether it be another elementary school middle school or high school that gets redone that we think about that that earlier process to integrate the city be it planning boards and Community groups or just bringing us into the fold because there's a lot of great expertise and great ideas that all Center on getting us in the same direction um in the same Community Values that we want to go forward with so I just hope

[70:00] that's an opportunity that we see going forward in the future all right yeah feel free to respond oh I just I said yeah I think I think like I said in in my opening is is um we have learned a lot through this process and I think we have developed a good working relationship so thank you Matt yeah I I forgot one thing so thank you for letting me double dip sorry um I forgot to say it looks awesome like what would make you want to go back to high school it's this building I it's incredible I took some screenshots and pictures and sent to them to some New Vista parents so just want to say uh awesome and and people I think we'll be excited to go to high school up here I feel the same way thank you and say I'm afraid that was not enough to make me want to go back to high school but I'm with you mayor Brockett uh Lawrence thank you I'm gonna Echo you know what

[71:00] everyone else said about early collaboration and you know appreciate what you guys have done here um in terms of taking our feedback and coming back to discuss this with us in more detail um like Aaron said I hope you will continue to look at those multi-use path connections um and I also you know like the Interiors on this building I think are really um excellent and exciting I still you know seeing that original design um it just breaks my heart a little bit because it was really fun um and I don't know if there's any way as as much fun and as well as you sold CMU I don't know that I completely buy that as the most exciting exterior building material but maybe there's opportunities for murals or other fun ways to make the building really

[72:01] um showcase more and be um you know have the vibrancy outside that it has inside right well seeing no other comments um I'll just say a final thank you uh Jack and Chris and Rob really appreciate you spending the time with us tonight for the the changes that you've made and I'll just mention from personal note my youngest child attended New Vista and it's an extraordinary institution and it deserves this building and I look forward to the students getting this phenomenal new facility thank you all thank you all have a good evening thanks everyone let's have a good night and with that Alicia can we go to our second public hearing please oh oh I have I was gonna say please open the public hearing right

[73:05] my mistake and we do have one person signed up who I owe a big apology to yes sir uh okay so if we could um open the public hearing and then you have my deep apologies I owe you one it's Molly Sorensen Molly double apology all right Miss Sorensen you should be able to address Council okay I just unmuted can you hear me yes ma'am okay I guess you can't see me I don't know why but anyway um I apologize if I should have made a comment earlier but I just wanted to say hello my name is Molly Sorensen and I wanted to thank you and talk to you a little bit about the New Vista Building this morning um this evening um I am a proud parent of not one but

[74:02] two 2023 graduates of New Vista and I also have another student that will be a sophomore this year I'm also the current PTO president at New Vista and I'm here to represent the new vista community um I believe that we're all I know you've already said this an agreement that New Vista is in desperate need of a safe new and well-functioning building that's very evident and I say this because the Boulder Community obviously overwhelmingly supported the bond issue on the ballot last fall for bbsd into and New Vista to begin construction on the new building um and I am here to implore you as a parent to please let's let this move forward as quickly as possible for the sake of the students um right now it's not fair to them this building is literally falling down it when it rains outside and snow is outside it's dripping water everywhere I

[75:01] mean I just want to make sure that you understand the importance of the construction moving forward and staying on schedule for us um there are so many reasons why but students are number one um and I know you already heard about all the thought and planning that went into the decision as to which building and campus should have been chosen and you know there was a um competition among different Architects and Engineers as to what would be the best design and what made the most sense so I mean they have taken a lot of different things into consideration and I know you also heard tonight that they took into consideration your feedback so I am just asking you please to let this go forward um you know they need to have this building as soon as possible they're talking about it being ready in Winter of 20 25 and we would really like to see that happen um and I just wanted to mention about

[76:00] the parking um as you know New Vista is an open enrollment school and it's a very unique education and we bring students from all over the area some of them from Mountain communities they don't have access to public transit some of them have to drive so that is a reality also a huge fund razor for us is selling parking spaces for the CU football games it's one of our biggest money makers for the school and for their advisory program and I think you need more spots for CU as well as the Chautauqua shuttle in the summer we provide parking for stock was shuttle so please just keep that in mind I know I'm out of time but thank you well I think so much for those comments and really apologize we didn't sequence you in a little earlier that was that was my fault but I think we are absolutely in line with what you're saying and the we we left with no additional requirements and the project should move forward expeditiously

[77:01] okay I'm very happy to hear that thank you for your time thank you for your work on the PTA here okay now that we've wrapped that up Elise if we could move to our second public hearing please and this one I'll actually do a public hearing oh you did fine sir we're coming out of recess all right uh since that public hearing has been officially closed we'll move to item 4B which is the concept plan review and comment for a proposed Redevelopment of 4401 Broadway with a 107 250 square foot mixed-use project to include housing retail light industrial and art studio space Community Green Space and a new home for the boulder Museum of Contemporary Art the project proposed consists of approximately 17 000 square feet of Museum space 17 500 square feet of at

[78:01] grade storefront commercial space and 72 750 square feet of residential space split between one bedroom two bedroom and live work units with 96 parking spaces provided this is a 29 reduction this is reviewed under case number lur 20-2022-00046 a mouthful slide so uh Chandler if you can introduce yourself and kick us up that'd be great sure absolutely uh Chandler van Scott principal planner with planning and development services and yes next time I might keep the description a little bit shorter so I actually have something to talk about during my presentation um thank you Alicia um so I will be discussing the 4401 Broadway concept plan tonight

[79:02] so um Shannon went over this a little bit in her presentation but this is concept plan so the purpose of this is really just to provide feedback and review the general development plan including uses circulation alternative transportation methods architecture environmental preservation Etc it's intended to give the applicant comments from the public city staff planning board and city council early in the process and there will be no formal action on tonight's matter in terms of public notification a written notice was sent to Property Owners within 600 feet of the subject property notice was also posted on the property in the form of science staff has received comments and questions from neighboring property owners and residents there were some concerns expressed over the proposed site access the vast majority of comments received we're expressing support for the proposed project and those comments are all included in the planning board packet which is referenced in the city

[80:00] council memo um so the project site is located in North Boulder at the northwest corner of the intersection of violet Ave and Broadway the site currently contains an auto repair shop on the southern lot and a shopping center on the Northern Lots includes retail and restaurant uses the site currently has two access points off Broadway with the primary access on the southern portion of the site also providing access via a 25-foot Public Access easement to the neighboring property to the West which is 4439 Broadway okay uh the project site is located within the boundaries of the North Boulder sub-community plan which sets forth the official vision for the future of the North Boulder subcommunity and is the basis for decisions regarding the long-term preservation and development of North Boulder the mbsp provides specific actions to be carried out by the city other public agencies and the private sector related to Future development it was also the basis for rezoning of a portion of North Boulder in 1997 and

[81:00] establishes the street and pedestrian and bicycle Network the plan was adopted in 1995 and subsequently amended a few times over the years within the North Boulder sub-community plan the Western portion of the site is designated as residential and the Eastern portion along Broadway is designated as mixed use transition to adjacent residential uh the North Boulder subcommunity plan defines the intent of transition areas generally as the areas adjacent to the Main Street business area should contain a mix of uses in a lower scale of intensity than the uses along Broadway and Yarmouth they should provide a transition between the Main Street and the adjacent residential and industrial areas they should also contain residential and office uses neighborhood serving restaurants and personal service uses in a pedestrian-oriented pattern with buildings located close to the street and parking in the rear where people can live and work in close proximity possibly in the same building in terms of the Boulder Valley comp plan

[82:01] land use designations there are three designations on this site there's medium density residential on the western portion of the site mixed-use business on the Southeastern portion of the site and manufactured housing on the northeastern portion of the site in terms of zoning the site is split zoned between mu2 on the East and rm1 on the west just quickly some zoning metrics so mu2 the portion of the site zoned me2 is roughly 1.7 Acres um there's a minimum open space requirement of 15 of the site there is a floor area ratio maximum of 0.6 which um in this case equates to about 46 180 square feet of allowable building area um the max floor area for principal buildings is 15 000 square feet the maximum Building height is 35 feet and the maximum number of stories for buildings is two stories the rm1 portion of the site which is

[83:02] residential medium one is about 1.3 acres in size this Zone district has a minimum open space per dwelling unit requirement of 3 000 square feet which um which can coincides with the underlying land use designation and generally produces a density of roughly 6 to 14 units per acre there is no maximum far the max Building height is 35 feet and there is no maximum number of stories um the site is also located within the North Boulder Arts District or the nobo arts district the nobo arts district was started in 2009 and achieved official nonprofit designation and recognition of the district by City Council in 2017. the district encompasses the areas on Broadway north of Violet Avenue and all abutting properties um the noble Art District web page describes the noble Art District as an inclusive Grassroots Community focused

[84:01] organization dedicated to promoting artists and creative businesses located along Broadway and the adjoining neighborhoods in North Boulder the novo area is characterized by upscale mixed-use new urbanism high-end restaurants and shops and a mix of funky artist friendly warehouses the noble Art District creates opportunities for artists to connect with each other and the broader Community promoting engagement through ART education and events the community cultural plan is also relevant in this discussion it was adopted in 2015 and outlines Community priorities around Boulder's culture and creative economy while this plan is not considered a regulating plan and it would not be um the project would not be reviewed for consistency with this plan during site review staff finds that it may be nonetheless useful for the purposes of the concept review discussion relocation and expansion of the binoca facilities is consistent with many of the community priorities outlined in the plan including support for cultural organizations create and enhance venues

[85:00] enhancing the Vitality of the creative economy and support for artists and creative professionals so the surrounding context of the site um this is a shot of the site looking North Four Mile Creek borders the site on the North with the Ponderosa mobile home Community lying adjacent to the northern portion of the site on the west immediately Northeast of the site across Broadway is the future site of the North Boulder Branch Library which just comes Construction in February of 2023. further north and across probably to the east is the Uptown Broadway mixed East development which contains approximately 40 000 square feet of commercial space and 245 residential units the development has mixed-use buildings aligning Broadway and Yarmouth frontages with parking to the rear and multi-family residential buildings on the Eastern portion of the site buildings here are up to 48 feet in height and Beyond Uptown Broadway to the north is the holiday mixed-use new urbanist neighborhood

[86:02] this is a shot of the site looking South along Broadway The Violet Crossing development to the west across Broadway was approved in 2010 there are 98 units there predominantly two stories um with some buildings being three stories and 35 feet and then the single family neighborhoods of Crestview West lie south of that and then the shiny Mountain Waldorf School is immediately across Violet Ave to the South which is currently in the site review amendment process for their Community or sorry um School master plan um so some details on the existing site um as I said before it currently contains an auto repair shop and a shopping center um the site currently has two access points Off-Broadway with the primary access shown here on the southern portion of the site also providing access via the 25-foot Public Access easement to the neighboring property to the West so that 25-foot access easement

[87:02] is shown there in red as shared access um on the north side of the site there is the shopping center and then there's also adjacent to the site a city-owned out lot which is um intended for flood improvements the site is impacted by the 100 Year floodplain The Violet lateral of Silver Lake ditch is also located along the southern portion of the proposed development um and then as I mentioned before the city-owned property which is an outlet is impacted by the high Hazard flood zone that includes a portion of the existing shopping center which is located within building easement however the op the outlet is intended to accommodate future flood improvements and Broadway Street improvements um so to jump into the proposed project the applicant is proposing to redevelop the properties at 4401 and 4481 Broadway with a roughly 107 000 square foot mixed

[88:00] use project which they are titling the North Boulder creative campus it would include housing retail light industrial and art studio space Community Green Space and a new home for the boulder Museum of Contemporary Art or B mocha the project would be composed of roughly 17 000 square feet of Museum space 17 500 square feet of at grade storefront commercial space and roughly 72 750 square feet of residential space for a total of 67 units the applicant is proposing to provide 96 parking spaces which as Alicia mentioned is a 29 reduction the current proposal shows 30 attached units located on the rm1 portion of the site that is the Western portion of the site attached dwelling units are allowed uses in that zone but live work units are currently prohibited in the rm1 zone District in addition given the size of the lot area zoned rm1 roughly 57 000 square

[89:02] feet it is not possible to provide the required open space per unit which would equate to a total of about 90 000 square feet for 30 units so while it is possible to request modification to the minimum open space for dwelling unit standards through site review it is only possible to do so to permit the averaging of these standards across multiple Labs that are subject to the same Zone district and within site review and the overall allowable density cannot be greater than what is permitted by the underlying Zone District so given this requirement there's currently no process through which the applicant can receive approval of the 30 units on the rm1 portion of the site under the existing zoning so the concept plan submittal outlines the general style and masking of the proposed project but does not include details on materials on the Eastern portion of the site the proposed museum is shown as highly contemporary in style with a sloped form that decreases in height uh from three stories on the East to two

[90:01] stories on the west the three proposed mixed East buildings along Broadway decrease in height from north to south with the two Northern buildings being three stories in height and the southernmost building which wraps the corner of Broadway and violet uh being two stories in height these buildings include glass door front and street level and a contemporary design with vertical elements paneling and large windows on the second and third floors per the applicant's written statement the concept review includes three courtyards West South and North connected by pedestrian alleys encouraging walkability on and Beyond the site the applicant implies that an open space reduction will be requested and that such a reduction is necessary to provide additional residential units at a much smaller size as noted above the minimum required open space per dwelling unit in the rm1 zone is three thousand square feet per unit um the applicant is showing roughly 17 555 square feet of accurate open space on the rm1 portion of the site which

[91:01] equates to roughly 585 square feet per unit reference images were provided in the application packet to give an idea of the architectural style that they are pursuing um so just to go back over so the summary of required modifications um as currently presented there are some modifications of the land use code that can be requested through site review these include a 29 parking reduction a modification to the maximum number of stories to allow for three-story buildings in mu2 or two stories is the max reduction to setbacks and an increase in the maximum allowable building size to allow for a 17 500 square foot museum where fifteen thousand square feet is the maximum floor area for a principal building there are other modifications that would require rezoning and or land use map change

[92:02] and or changes to the use and intensity standards so one is the museum as a use museums are currently of prohibited use in mu2 live work units on the western portion of the site and the rm1 zoned portion those are currently a prohibited use in rm1 uh the proposal to provide 30 units on the western portion of the site at approximately 585 square feet of open space per unit um that's not something that site review allows us to request and then the overall far on the mu2 portion of the site as shown is currently 1.02 where the max far and mu2 is 0.6 and again there's no way to ask for just a straight increase in Far through site review so this went before the planning board on March 21st 2023 planning board heard presentations by staff and the applicant

[93:01] and asked questions eight members of the public also spoke the planning board discussed four key issues of the public hearing which I will be recommending that the council use as guidance for tonight's discussion as well um first key issue is would planning board support either changes to the MU to you standards or a potential rezoning of the mu2 portion of the site to allow for the proposed Museum use um so that one's really just aimed at how you feel about the museum use on its own the second is considering BCP and North Boulder subcommunity plan goals and policies would planning boards support a land use map change and or rezoning to one or both portions of the site in order to allow for the proposed density that's basically asking how Council feels about the 67 units does the third is about to change these to council but I guess I am speaking in the past tense so it still makes sense um the third was does the planning board feel that on balance this project is consistent with the goals and policies

[94:00] of the Boulder Valley comprehensive plan and the fourth was asking if the planning board had feedback on the conceptual site plan and architecture so I'll briefly go over the planning board feedback on these key issues and then um we'll open the key issues up for city council to discuss so key issue one the board generally expressed support for the proposed Museum use and supported a targeted update to the North Boulder sub-community plan and a subsequent Amendment to the Boulder Valley comp plan land use designations to facilitate rezoning the board generally did not support updating the youth standards in the land use code and preferred a broader Community feedback driven process to change the underlying land use and Associated zoning some board members expressed concerns over rezoning without a specific development commitment iea site review submittal as well as a potential time and cost impacts associated with the required processes for KSU 2 in general the board agreed

[95:00] that a targeted update to the nobo plan and subsequent bbcp land use map Amendment would be necessary before they would consider supporting rezoning the site to allow for proposed density so again kind of just the board wanted to gauge how the community felt about the density before committing assuming the Noba plan and bvcp land use designations were updated to support higher density zoning they would only support a rezoning request if it were tied to a development proposal um the board was split on the issue of whether the proposed units would provide market rate affordability as indicated by the applicant for key issue number three this was kind of split three board members generally felt the proposal was on balance consistent with the goals and policies and four board members generally uh felt that the consistency was to be determined based on the outcome of all of the processes described above for key issue 4 planning board generally supported location of the museum on the site and like the open space layout on

[96:00] the Eastern portion of the site they were generally supportive of the proposed building massing individual board members offered a variety of comments including the need to address access concerns by the neighboring property owner some felt the access should remain open no matter what and some were not concerned with location of access as long as it was mutually acceptable to the neighbor several members felt a strong need for a robust TDM plan there was a desire Express for excellent awe-inspiring and challenging architecture for the museum agreement that there is Need for more detailed programming for the proposed open space and consideration of the design of the northern wall of the museum as it interacts with the adjacent multi-use path along Four Mile Creek um so I will be presenting the same key issues for discussion I don't need to read them again uh key issue one just briefly again is basically how does city council feel about the proposed Museum use and would

[97:01] you be willing to support rezoning of the me2 portion of the site to allow for the proposed Museum use so some considerations for this again under mu2 standards museums are prohibited floor area as shown on the me2 portion of the site is roughly 76 750 square feet which equates to an far of about 1.0 which is over the maximum allowable far of 0.6 so it is only possible to request a modification in Far through site review to permit the averaging of these standards across multiple Lots with Insight reviews that are in the same Zone District and overall the allowable far cannot be greater than what is permitted by the underlying Zone District the prohibited Museum use um could only be allowed through rezoning the property or amending the use table in the land use code and let

[98:00] me know if you'd like me to stop during this to discuss the key issues or if or if the plan is just to come back to these after I go over them we'll come back because we'll have a questions first and then we'll come back okay sounds good um so in order to rezone the property the rezoning must be consistent with the policies and goals of the Boulder Valley comp plan and meet one of the following criteria so in this case I've highlighted the ones that are um most likely to be used um the applicant demonstrates by clear and convincing evidence that the proposed rezoning is necessary to come into compliance with the Boulder Valley comprehensive plan map this one is problematic because as described before the underlying land uses on the site um don't really support a higher intensity Zone districts the other two are that the land or surrounding environs has changed or is changing to such a degree that is in the public interest to encourage Redevelopment of the area or to recognize the change character of the

[99:01] area or the proposed rezoning is necessary in order to provide land for a community need that was not anticipated at the time of adoption of the Boulder Valley Cop plan so um kind of addressing the rezoning criteria staff has been working with the applicant and kind of taking this apart for a while and there's really currently no feasible Out of the Box Zone District that would support the proposed project in its current form either issues with use far or bvcp land use consistency so um it is likely that if council is supportive of this proposal that we would have to explore creation of a flex zone District which is allowed for the code and a flex zone District would require a recommendation by city council that staff begin to work on that process in terms of the other rezoning criteria is five or six which I described five which is about the changing

[100:01] environs is not really feasible because of the North Boulder sub community plan which is adopted in um you know since adoption in 1996 has guided the area um very clearly and relocation of the existing Museum used does not necessarily qualify as a community need that was not anticipated at the time of the adoption of the Boulder Valley comp plan so given that the existing Noble plan and bbcp land use designations do not support Zone districts that would allow the proposed project the following processes would be required so the first is a targeted update to the noble plan to amend the underlying land use designations this would require initiation by city council and incorporation into the pnds work plan to be executed by staff the Second Step would be a Boulder Valley comp plan land use map Amendment which could be initiated by the applicant concurrent with the rezoning request that land use map Amendment could only really happen if we have

[101:00] ended the nobo plan first following the land use map Amendment likely creation of one or more Flex Zone districts to accommodate the proposed project so for key issue number two this one is aimed at gauging council's feelings about the proposed density of 67 units on the site so considerations for this proposal does include 67 units on a three acre site that comes to a gross density of roughly 22.3 dwelling units per acre which is about as about as high density as as the city of Boulder allows um so 37 units on the me2 portion of the site which by themselves are close to the maximum far allowed on the site currently under mu2 zoning again there's no process to increase far under the current Zone 30 units on the rm1 portion of the site

[102:00] with no no process to reduce open space the Mr land use designation anticipates the density of roughly 6 to 14 dwelling units per acre um so we're we're talking about basically doubling that rezoning to higher density residential Zone either rh5 or rh6 would require amending the bbcp land use map to HR and just worth noting that it would be the only parcel within the North Boulder sub-community plan with an HR land use designation so these are kind of sub questions as does council agree that the provision of 67 residential units at an average size of just over a thousand square feet per unit would support market rate affordability and given the surrounding context and the North Boulder sub-community objectives for areas designated residential um does council feel that changing the underlying land use designation from Mr to HR and rezoning the rm1 portion of

[103:00] the site to a higher density residential Zone District where the proposed density and liver units are allowed is supportable key issue number three is whether the council feels that on balance this project is consistent with the goals and policies of the Boulder Valley comp plan these are just some policies that I've listed that staff feels the project is consistent with so enhanced Community benefit you need Community identity compact development pattern variety of centers commitment to a walkable and accessible City support for local businesses and business retention role of Arts cultural Historic Park and recreational amenities um Etc um so in particular the applicant is relying on the Project's consistency with the above policies taken from section 8 of the comp plan which relate to arts and culture as well as the associated 2015 Community cultural plan and the associated Noble Art District designation at the most basic level the applicant is arguing that the city has numerous

[104:00] policies and plans that support arts and culture North Boulder has become the city's main area for arts and creative Industries and this project would serve as the central hub for arts and creative Industries in North Boulder and the city as a whole and then KSU forward is just more of an open-ended discussion um feedback to the applicant on the conceptual site plan and architecture um so quickly next steps following the concept review hearing the applicant can either proceed with submitting development review applications um or may submit a second concept review application city council does have the authority to refer the project to dab and or tab for feedback it's worth noting in this instance dab tab referrals are most effective when specific items for discussion are provided by Council and a timeline for these referrals would also be very helpful because we're talking about a lot of process that would likely need to occur before they were ready to submit for site review so we'd want to just make sure that council is aware that if

[105:02] there was a dab and tab referral we might be talking about a few years before those happened um and then a site review application will require a decision by planning board subject to call up by city council a rezoning land use map change or other legislative action would require a recommendation by planning board and would be subject to a final decision by city council so this will be coming back to you in some way shape or form and now I can take any questions great so let's have questions for staff and then is the applicant planning on speaking as well I believe so so let's do questions for Chandra Chandler and then we'll go to the applicant I've got uh Lauren start thank you and thanks for that presentation um I'm gonna ask kind of a basic question which is why are museums prohibited in the MU Zone District like I'm just having a

[106:00] hard time understanding what horrible impacts were concerned about them having on their neighbors um you know that's it's a good question I'm not exactly sure of the answer um I can say that the only place in the city where mu2 zoning exists currently is North Boulder um there are other mu zones such as mu3 and mu4 I believe where museums are in allowed use also BMS zoning on the hill museums are in allowed use so I'm not exactly sure why uh museums were listed as prohibited when mu2 was created okay and then my other question is going to be saying the same but with the live work units why are those prohibited in the other Zone District um well rm1 is is really I mean it's a medium density residential

[107:00] Zone but it's it's I would say a low medium residential zone so the Zone District itself is definitely geared towards kind of strictly residential uses um and I think when the Zone District was created um live work wasn't quite as as popular or as as widespread as it's becoming now um so there's probably just some some trepidation around allowing for Park commercial part residential uses in a in a medium density residential Zone okay thank you if that was all I had marks and Matt um I have a few questions but some of them are based on the the staff memo that was presented to us if that's all right to ask questions on on that basis um first question is it possible to get a list of all of the uh existing businesses that will be displaced by this project and and what they might be

[108:02] doing that uh um that that's always something of concern to me yes I can provide that less than and the applicant can definitely speak to that as well I know they've been in close discussion with the existing tenants on the site so I'm sure they'd be happy to talk more about that next is is the land value of the donation supported by an appraisal not that I have seen but again I would probably defer to the applicant to talk about that in more detail okay do we I would think that would be fairly important for us to know in terms of of the the value of that donation um uh and I'm now looking at the uh what the memo describes as the community benefits of the project the the do you know if this were presented uh as a 67

[109:02] unit project in which 2.4 million dollars of land donation was going to partially offset the community benefit requirements what would be the cash and loop payment for the rest do we have any idea what that would look like um I do not but I can I think that is important because as I understand what what is being proposed the the rest of the community benefits are things like Equitable and accessible access to the Arts as if it would be permissible to have inequitable uh and inaccessible access to the Arts um and I'm looking at that going what is that um or integration into the noble Arts District is a nice benefit but it's not a community benefit for specific to this project and so I want to know what it is that

[110:00] since it is proposed that we do a donation and nothing further I would like to understand what it is we're expected to give up in terms of the community benefits as opposed to getting uh cash for the balance or or something hard and fast in terms of housing units um if I if I cut in here with a question here because I I don't believe they're requesting a lesson to cash and Liu amount for affordable housing Chandler are they requesting to pay for no that's correct if they're not providing permanently affordable units on site they'd be subject to the same inclusionary housing requirements as any other development okay good um but it would be it would be nice to know what what the balance of that is and would be nice to know if there's support for the for the amount of the donation um um next on the parking reduction um

[111:00] are we sure that that that 29 parking reduction uh is not going to create conflict between people who live there and people who are visiting the museum um you know I'd hate to have hand-to-hand combat over um parking spaces uh whenever it's you know an appropriate time for people to visit the museum um I would think the museum would have some concern about that as well yeah I mean it at this point it's still so early in the process um in concept review that we're not really looking at detailed TDM plans or anything like that but if they came in with the same request during site review we'd be doing way more in-depth analysis of potential parking impacts and making sure that we felt it was supportable before saying yes and I will leave off with um uh the question of can you define what market rate affordable uh might actually

[112:00] be um you know I guess you know compared to what right that that one I'll I will again um defer to the applicant because I know they have some specific ideas in mind about what they mean by that and in in that vein um I'm very happy the plan calls for 67 units at an average size of 100 1085 square feet per unit but since two-thirds of the units are one bedroom and supposedly they are supporting market rate affordability by being small um how do you get to that average of 1085 the two bedroom units would have to be gigantic um I'm I'm just mild understanding the calculation yeah and I think that that maybe um so I made that calculations based on the numbers provided in the concept review so it may be that the live work

[113:02] units are including the entire floor area about the live and work portions but again um I think that's something that the applicant would be happy to address um I will ask one last question and it's it's almost rhetorical I I'm not sure I've I've seen a proposal like this where um almost everything in our current land use code and zoning ordinance requires modification to make this happen have you ever seen the like uh no I I don't I don't know that I don't know that any anyone has okay uh interesting to know that thank you those are my questions for the moment excellent Matt uh thanks Aaron I could probably answer Mark's last question is it's been intentionally restrictive our land use and Zoning for so long that's why we've never seen it um so so we have a chance to write that wrong um I have two questions

[114:00] um one being um uh have and I don't know if you mentioned this but I didn't pick it up but Flex zoning have we done that before does it exist anywhere and if so what in what capacity um we have I think we've only done it once or twice um it's not something that we typically do um I don't know if someone if another staff member has more institutional memory of times when we have done it um not all but a little bit about Flex zoning um so the flex zone um was included in a suite of updates to the city's uh land use regulations back in the mid 2000s and the idea behind the flex zone was really to allow um to borrow from different elements of the zoning code so you can pick a form

[115:00] standard you can you can pick your intensity standards so it's kind of a menu system um kind of a cafeteria zoning is what we refer to it as it's been used once I believe for The Granary project that's um off of North Broadway I can't remember what the cross street was but um allowed the applicant at the time to kind of pick and choose some standards in order to get the desired outcome so we do have some experience using it foreign appreciate that um and then uh another question I have has to do with interior ceiling Heights and how we would accommodate that um and then just for reference I'm the council rep for the bimoka board so I've been in on many of these conversations in the early phase of this so in comments I can sort of speak to uh how they've gone about this in a really positive light but but in light of that you know having museums having flexibility for height is really critical um for for a creative space and so I'm wondering how does the current zoning

[116:01] restrict that and and is there has there been any discussion on how we can liberate or create more flexibility with regard to Interior ceiling Heights um in in a building uh where this site is located yeah we don't um so zoning standards really are primarily concerned with with just the exterior Building height um there are some like in terms of floor area um ceiling height kind of comes into play but there's nothing really restricting you from having really high ceilings um it really just comes down to what the building um measures out at you know outside um there are some allowances I think for like if you have um a big Atrium let's say where there are multiple stories and then one story which um where the second floor doesn't continue all the way through and that's a vaulted ceiling space um there's some exemptions for floor area for that type of thing but um other than that the code doesn't really get too much into um interior ceiling Heights

[117:01] okay I appreciate it my last one has to do with about a liquor license and are there any do we have any zoning designations that allow for liquor license within proximity to a school because as when you know with a museum that's a it's an important money maker and uh use in philanthropies to make sure people can enjoy a drink while they're enjoying their space and having an event space so I didn't know uh given its proximity to the the Waldorf School um would we be able is there a way to accommodate that on site or are there just restrictions in that capacity um I'm not 100 familiar with the state liquor licensing regulations I know that we would require a use review for um a restaurant serving liquor that was within 500 feet of a school but um I believe they can ask for it from the state someone please correct me if I'm wrong I don't know if we have someone from the CIO who might be more knowledgeable about this

[118:01] Tracy do you have an answer it is it is 500 feet and um I'm not aware of any exemption process and so uh there's a strict prohibition got to be 500 feet away from a school and that's the premises or the property boundary I'm afraid I don't know okay nope I I mean we'll see where the applicant goes just knowing from earlier conversations with bimoka and folks I know that's certainly something and all of us going to museums understand that that is uh part and parcel to to how they function in many ways so I think digging deeper into that would be something that could be quite helpful so appreciate those are all my questions thanks Tara just one quick question um which thank you everyone who spoke previously for reminding us that these are quite a lot of changes at one point in the at what point in the process do we uh get community

[119:00] um input especially the mobile home park because we're doing all these different um changes to zoning land use Etc yeah so it would if Council directs staff um to start the process of a targeted update to the north folder sub community plan um that would definitely be a part of that process and again you know we haven't created a work plan for it or anything yet um it would take some coordination uh with long-range planning and current planning but um eventually there would have to be you know a public Outreach process designed um which I'm sure would include Outreach to all neighboring properties so likely be during that process that we would get the bulk of the feedback from from nearby property owners and tenants okay see no other questions for staff

[120:00] let's move to the applicants presentation please uh good evening Council we're super excited to be here with you tonight I am joined by Andrew gademi with Emerald prop Emerald development Emerald properties David dadone with B MoCA we have our architect on deck and we have a presentation that we would like to share with you and we would love to try and address your questions during our presentation if we don't please ask us when we're done because we do have answers to them and we'll do our best to try and incorporate those into our presentation well Danica if you can introduce yourself as well please yes thank you I'm Deanna kapow with Trestle strategy group and I have been working with the the team for approximately two or three years and um I will be kind of facilitating this discussion tonight so I will pass it off

[121:00] we need I don't know if sage has been promoted Yep looks like she has great thank you hi everyone um I'm Andrew godimi um I'm a boulder native deeply rooted in the North Boulder Community my family acquired this site in 1979. keep going there we are thank you I grew up across the street just North uh sorry I grew up across the street and worked just north of the site over the past 35 years I have witnessed the remarkable transformation of the neighborhood from an industrial area called Dog Patch to the vibrant nobo Arts District my intention has always been to support the creatives in our community nobo thrives because of the collaboration between makers artists small businesses families and free thinkers I am committed to preserving

[122:02] the diversity in formality and openness that Define our neighborhood fostering both individual prosperity and sustainable Community growth when approached by the museum I saw a unique opportunity to invest in my neighborhood despite the challenges I believe that the benefit outweighs the risks which can be addressed through thoughtful planning and public participation today we present a Community Driven project it is not just the vision of a developer institution or designer it is the result of extensive Community engagement including research workshops and surveys this input aligns with the boulder comprehensive plan North Boulder sub-community plan and cultural plan the concept we share is a stepping stone with the final design shaped by the Boulder Community

[123:00] our project focuses on transparent inclusive decision-making processes rather than just an architectural object we understand the transformative power of architecture in creating Equitable sustainable and Visually appealing spaces we envisioned this project as a new Benchmark for design Excellence sustainability and public engagement in Boulder next slide the North Boulder sub-community plan adopted nearly 30 years ago couldn't anticipate the population growth Arts districts emergence environmental challenges or technological impacts therefore we see council's input on adapting land use regulations to accommodate programmatic diversity and density these changes would enable the establishment of the boulder Museum of Contemporary Art and provide a building density similar to The Armory and Uptown Broadway neighborhoods nearby this zoning adjustment is vital to our

[124:02] Concepts vibrancy and economic viability these variations will support an urban environment with connected public spaces walkability and ample Green Space the campus is a central point for the community providing multimodal access to North Boulder the library Foothills Park Broadway and the trails our goal is to establish a seamless connection with Parks trails and nature next slide our project our plan activates Broadway by creating a vibrant street with commercial businesses and a cultural Hub we understand and endorse the preservation of a Broadway access for our neighbors within the site and facing shining Mountain School we envision shared Studios live work units and multi-family housing our project aligns with the living building challenge and Embraces the idea of the

[125:02] 15-minute City considering the holistic aspects of social environmental and economic Dynamics in everyday life we are committed to preventing involuntary displacement from its Inception and in response to our community outreach this project was conceived as an enhancement for its occupants we intend to preserve and strengthen the role of the Carniceria and provide tenants existing tenants the opportunity to return at an equivalent rental rate our project is a dynamic reflection of the community it serves it's a mixed-use campus that Fosters creative production and offers various housing options to meet diverse needs Equitable access to Art public spaces Civic institutions Commerce and housing is Central to our project

[126:01] um before moving forward there was a comment that I thought I could address right now which was about uh market rate um so as the site is currently zoned and per the previous submission uh to the council and planning board for a project that we shelved we could essentially build 12 200 or 12 units uh Townhomes that were roughly 2500 square feet so um considering that asking for the additional density came from extensive public Outreach and Community engagement that Danica will speak to about the typology of Housing and density that they look for and it is comparatively more affordable than to how it would what could be produced as it's currently zoned

[127:01] um and again I'll reiterate that we had no intention of uh the museum being in lieu of our inclusionary housing uh requirements thank you hi good evening um my name is and I'm the director of the boulder Museum of Contemporary Art I'm excited to be here in front of his buhari to receive feedback about the concept plan we submitted to planning War for a creative campus in North Boulder which includes a new home for bimoka just want to give you a little about a little information about mocha bimoka has been serving the Boulder Community and and greater region for the last 52 years reaching over 170 000 people annually through 25 plus exhibitions and offering uh average 250 programs annually most of them are free of charge for the last seven years the mother has

[128:00] been conceptualizing how the museum can continue to inspire and Foster Community for many years to come for the next 50 years expanding our facility is crucial to achieving the vision and increasing our impact we seek to create a state-of-the-art facility that will serve all equally from artists to members of the community Youth and seniors visitors through the city of Boulder as well as a creative Community next slide Sage these are some of the goals that we are trying to achieve with a new facility and intentionally the design Museum that will support a wider range of activities promote deeper understanding of our mission and be inclusive and accessible as a creative anchor for the proposed project we moca's new flagship will build upon the work started by the North Boulder Arts District just random neighborhoods and the future North Boulder library and

[129:00] our placement in the site will create a walkable dense neighborhood along Broadway and the Four Mile Creek and it is our intent through planning and design that the campus and the mocha will retain novels authenticity and creative atmosphere while becoming an added resource for the community next slide our vision this is our vision for the new facility and is to empowering community Through art and this is achieved through four pillars exhibitions spark imagination and be the starting point um for conversations and and challenging topics in our exhibitions sorry in our community Arts education providing platforms for members of the community to explore self-expression and the healing power of Art artists Boulder is the anchor of one of

[130:03] the largest Arts communities in the state of Colorado over 200 artists live in live and works in the novel um area through the new facility we're committed to advancing the career of local Road local artists as well as bringing the national and international Contemporary Art this course to our community and then an investment in bogus vibrancy an expanded facility will not only bring economic Vitality but will be a Catholic for North Boulder and Beyond next slide this is a little um a slide with that shows how we Vision to program the new facility for the museum the vision uh um it was shared with you it's to build a building um that will host around 17 500 square feet total we Vision to dedicate around 6 500 square feet to Gallery Space 4 000

[131:03] square feet to community space rental and event space for members of the community to gather um and around 2500 square feet for a cafe slash restaurant where people can share a meal after their view in an exhibition as well as an open patio the rest will be dedicated to a welcome area Museum shop bathrooms Etc we ambition a sustainable facility that provides spacious efficient galleries that honors the artists and are intentionally designed to display contemporary art I am particularly excited about in addition to the improved kind of respect is improve Gallery space is the flexible Community a multi-use space that will allow us to better serve the community year round through programming as you may know since we embark on the visioning of the new facility we have

[132:01] had the novel um Boulder and the Arts community at the Forefront of our vision for the new facility through community outreach and surveying at the beginning of the process we were able to directly inform how we think about bimoka's new facilities the new space will be thoughtfully designed with Community needs and Desires in mind creating a welcoming spaces that allow us to reach all the audiences who may not otherwise be comfortable in a traditional Museum setting lastly I'm excited to share that we have launched early this year a capital campaign and donors have responded with excitement about this project and the vision for the new facility we have implemented a 25 million dollars Capital campaign and I'm happy to share that as of the end of June we have

[133:01] secure 35 percent of the campaign golf and um Senator Higgin Looper has recommended bimokda's new facility in the north Wilder Arts District for a 765 thousand dollar Grant through a congressionally directed spending Bill through the Appropriations Committee and that is not included on the 35 percent because still makes approval from Congress tomorrow's bimoka will continue we'll continue with its commitment to serve a diverse audience in a new flagship building that better meets the community it needs we hope that you will support remote contribution of empowering the community Through Art thank you thanks David next slide so I think the community engagement on this process is worth spending a little bit of time on it's um we're at concept review and over

[134:03] the last two years we've actually engaged with two different Consultants um one was Michelle Ames and Wendy Lawton who conducted interviews in the spring of 2022 to really reach out to key stakeholders and understand what the community was feeling I think one of the key questions we asked then was how does the community feel about B mocha having a satellite branch or anchor in North Boulder and what does that look like and so a lot of this data all of this data is included in our packet we don't have a lot of time to dive into it at that time we also reached out to community stakeholders in the neighborhood and mobile home park owners we also worked with Ford momentum and Centro in this summer of 2022 at that point we created or we did a ton of interviews they did in the community they attended First Fridays we did a survey with 138 survey respondents direct Outreach to a diverse

[135:02] range of community stakeholders some of you might have been involved in that and definitely the mobile home park residents were as well as the tenants and Neighbors and other North Boulder Community members I'm going to go over some of those Concepts in a minute we also held a concept Workshop in the fall of 2022 in which we invited another group of stakeholders to do a two-day charette to talk about more of the design of the project and so just these are by the Numbers we also had a lot of support letters and speakers at our planning board meeting we and we hope that you've read all those letters next slide so in terms of these crowdsourced Community Values through these this long and and far reaching Outreach into all of the North Boulder Community not just the neighborhood one of the things was that came to the Forefront was protecting and investing

[136:01] in the Arts Community this Arts Community was not envisioned in the North Boulder sub community plan it it created by it was created by itself with the work of a lot of individuals it wasn't something the city um I think envisioned at that time and it's in a wonderful thing that our community has to offer creative and collaborative design was very important and that's why you're seeing the diversity of land uses and residential uses and Commercial uses that really creates the space for people to live work and play have economic Exchange and that density was encouraged in the community outreach that we did that that creates the opportunity for more Gathering more shared resources and more economic Exchange inclusivity and diversity is very important to everyone we spoke to that showed up in a land use form as flexible spaces that have multi-functional use for every economic group shared art

[137:00] spaces shared um uh open spaces and a community amenity that can be shared by all and one thing that really stood out to us is that don't focus on one demographic we really a lot of people wanted adult programming in this neighborhood there's a lot of that's happening around the library and violet park that is really focused towards Youth and families and adults and older adults were also like don't forget that these are important parts of our community and affordability is important there are a lot of tenants that are here and they're very cherished and valued and as Andrew mentioned those tenants are we hope will be part of this future development or can find a new home and and some of the other properties that the academi group manages and many of them wrote letters of support um that are you will find in our packet next slide so in terms of the workshop we had these two sessions one in August of last year and September of last year we really

[138:00] tapped into the creativity of the community to hone in on the program and the site plan and so that was led by JB desousa who was the architect on this conceptual planning he is on the call if we have any questions related to architecture next slide so the concepts were one of the big design challenges we asked is where should be mocha go should it be on the corner Violet and Broadway or should should this does this energy moving it to the north where the LA across from the library along Four Mile Creek closer to Violet Park and so we really grappled with that in our workshop and the decision was to move it up to the north on this this Graphics a little misleading because North I always want to see on the top of the screen one of the other reasons that that is a good place for bimoka is that is outside of the shed of um shiny mountains so we wouldn't have any liquor licensing issues being close to the school so then once we understood that on the

[139:02] the museum was anchoring the site at Four Mile Creek really was about how do we create visibility to the the museum how do we break up the buildings so they're not massive and they have a lot of view Shad a lot of permeability what happens at the corner of violet and Broadway to activate that corner and how do we modulate Building height across the site as well as provide for parking and these live work residential so this Corridor that you see through the middle of the site is where a lot of the activity will take place live work units commercial spaces as well as commercial spaces along Broadway all the parking is located either in a garage a carport or behind the buildings to protect it from the public view next slide so moving into planning board we were went to planning board a few months ago we did receive a lot of support at that hearing with over 20 letters of support

[140:00] and 11. speakers Chandler went over that I think we were really grappling with some complex land issues you know why are we asking for things that the code doesn't allow and I think the reason we're asking for things the code doesn't allow is because that's what the community has asked us to ask for so this is really a Community Driven process and bimoka as the anchor tenant really allows the rest of it to happen um again North Boulder sub-community plan was I think from 1995 it didn't Envision the arts district that has emerged there today nor the vibrancy that is coming especially with the library and other things that have really anchored North Boulder next slide um here's some of the examples of the letters of support that we received it was a broad group of people from Neighbors to tenants to business owners to artists to architects we worked closely with CU on on the charette they had a lot of insight into

[141:01] the design design and planning Library Foundation our neighbors shiny Mountain Waldorf School is a very important Ponderosa mobile home park Etc next slide and with that I'll conclude I I just I wanted to try and answer the question so if I did not do those I hope that you will ask us and we can answer the questions that staff wasn't able to answer in any new ones that you have before you finish I'd like to just make one point clear um which I believe everyone knows but I wanted to reiterate so our goal is to come to you with you know questions and input and the reason we're not discussing architecture is because that's to be determined once we're able to sort uh the programming and planning challenges of this project our goal is to launch um a design competition um in order to move to the next phase thank you thanks Andrew yes we went

[142:03] light on the architecture to focus on the program I think you have a lot of policy um questions that Chandler has put forth and that's what we hope will give we can have the discussion around to see if this is the right type of use and density and mix of uses and Synergy that we're looking for in our community which would allow us the opportunity to move forward and just to add on to that I think we talked a lot about the community engagement I hope that you look through all of that work that has been done if the decision were to be made to do a update to the North Boulder subcommute plan I believe we can build on a lot of that work as I mentioned it was very extensive and comprehensive towards the whole North Boulder Community and um it wasn't done by anybody directly on this team we worked with neutral kind of third-party Community engagement experts to really conduct that Outreach great thanks for the comprehensive

[143:01] presentation for Danica and Andrew and David and now we can open this up for Council questions Rachel I have just one that that's not responsive to what you just said you hoped we would focus on Danica so please bear with me um but this re this concept reminds me a little bit of um looking at the the North Boulder Library concept and being a real you know sort of central for North Boulder Community space and so that made me wonder uh have you engaged growing up Boulder or engaged kids specifically I understand um that waldoor students probably have been involved but are you looking at that absolutely and we did we've worked directly with the library and um merriments are with growing up Boulder we haven't done specific engagement with with youth um but that would definitely be part of our program moving forward as

[144:01] we look at the site planning and the engagement of the public spaces Etc so that is very much a part of our goal and we have in we have engaged with the experts on Youth and I think I know that bimoka does an amazing amount of Youth engagement um I I actually probably at the First Fridays there was also youth engagement I believe W do you want to talk about that yeah correct thank you Rachel for that question yes um we haven't done any engagement but we believe that you know if the direction of council is to continue exploring this option figure out how can we fit the museum on that side there's a lot of more community outreach that we want to do we're really committed to serving the community and and I feel very strong about engaging youth because they're going to be the future stewards of the organization thanks I'll hold the rest of that thought for comments good to see y'all

[145:01] any other questions all right seeing out there Mark I figured you'd have something uh you're muted I just want to ask a couple of the questions that that staff could not answer and the first is um what is the support for the value of the land donation I can I can answer that question so um because we don't have an official design um we're unable to get an assessment um what we did do is we took um the land value of the Armory and how it transaction acted as well as a project that recently went to um to planning board on 20th and Spruce and other current market rates that's um in order to calculate that land value I think the land value that is listed in your packet is something around two

[146:00] million dollars that is a number from 2008 if we are to look at the land value based on the compare the market comparables that we take today and estimate the net present value of that for the entitled project as we show you today it exceeds four million dollars um are you intending to get a uh a third party appraisal yes so um our plan is uh to submit um the submit both the museum and the entire sites development through One Singular process and we would require a third party assessment in order to do the land donation to the museum and the other question my last question is simply again with the parking reductions uh have you done any kind of study that that will demonstrate the

[147:01] adequacy of the parking spaces for both uh the museum clientele and the residents yes we did some preliminary design studies and we looked at um what the current parking requirements are for the museum um and what their peak hours of operation um we also have had some preliminary conversations about uh off-site or sharing agreements for off-site uh parking when there is you know an event will there be uh will the residents have designated spots um it's too early to determine that okay said they would be shared parking okay yeah it's the share parking throughout the site yes and I think we're at a 25 parking reduction we think there's a lot of shared parking between the two uses and

[148:02] and talking with shiny Mountain Wilder school and I've worked previously with them there's there's actually a lot of access Park in the neighborhood if there was a larger event but we think the parking is adequate for to serve the day-to-day uses for both of those and there's a really nice Synergy between the residential and Museum uses yep and on addition um W was probably going to say this but we also took into account the parking use usages of the current Museum I believe there's very little parking with the current Museum it's a lot of street parking and so we're we're you know we're using that data as well to um look at what the right amount of parking is on the site okay I just want to avoid the situation where residents have to go across the street to park uh on a Saturday night that's that would not be a a healthy outcome okay thank you I mean I would add Mark to to this that comment is that the museum regularly it's not going to be open at night

[149:02] um for functions or forces to be showcasing the exhibitions so there are some synergies while we are open some residents are going to be working remotely or working from office so we'll be commuting and while um we are close um residents will come back to um and park their their vehicles on on some empty spaces that we will be vacating okay thank you all right Lawrence thank you um and I also had a couple that just to follow up on that were brought up earlier so there was Let's see we talked about the average square footage size of the units as being about a thousand which I understand is you know what the buy right project would the units could be two and a half times as big or something

[150:01] like that but um I guess I was wondering how you ended up there like could if we allowed more units would you do slightly smaller units or are you feeling like really this is the right square footage for the for these live work type units and I'm just wondering how you balanced that and thought about that I can answer that I think right now it's an open dialogue um this is something that's proposed uh we tried to provide a variety of different unit mixes um from the community engagement we heard that affordability meant to some community members that they could live and work in the same space for other people it meant um that they could rent a shared Art Studio space below and have a smaller unit for themselves um the the notion that they could potentially have a place where they

[151:00] could both live and produce became more affordable for some people rather than needing to rent their own space so this is a preliminary uh mix that we're proposing um but definitely open uh to hearing the city's feedback on that and just to compliment on what Andrew said I think from the museum perspective and the conversations we had with artists and supporters everyone is really excited about how can be MoCA also partner with the developer on on providing um some um Studio space or work leap space as as Andrew is in in partnership with the developer might be and possibly subsidized foreign thank you um and then for the floor area I know there was some discussion about floor to floor Heights and things like that um you know over a certain height in

[152:02] Boulder the floor area counts double I was just wondering if that's been taken into account with sort of the floor areas that we're at already or depending on how things pan out is it is there potentially more floor area because of the way those calculations work out that makes sense why are you talking about the building the museum or yeah that would be predominantly about the museum space oh okay yeah I think the the vision is you know and and that's again once we kind of finalize the programming and where the galleries will go they will be in the first floor second floor um would be to kind of design you know ceilings that are more contemporary our current our current ceilings are somewhere around 12 feet we would like

[153:00] to be somewhere around 18 to 20 feet on the first floor if galleries um are are programmed on on the first floor and and then lower a little lower floors on the second um sorry lower ceilings on the second floor and on the third floor um this kind of rooftop audio but again this is dependent on how the architect that we will visit we will be selecting through a competition process will um recommend um the best programming um for the museum space thank you that's it for me thanks Aaron um for one it's good to see you guys um as always in a different light usually we're in the studio of uh of B mocha having this good conversation and I'm glad everyone gets to see where we're at with this uh my question centers around this Flex zoning concept

[154:01] which you know we we haven't done much of but as we've seen there seems to be a a roadblock and a barricade to achieve what has been an intentional Vision to meet the needs of our Arts Community while also being transformative at the same time right that's been a core concept and goal of this from the beginning so my question is if we were to sort of go and as we heard from Chandler in a flex zoning you we have the chance to kind of pick and choose from various different things a bunch of parameters that meet sort of the need and aspirational goals of this project is there something in in in sort of aspirational that you've wanted to do but have kind of just shelved it because it seemed impossible given the current set of limitations and so I'm kind of curious if if this is how we can really make this the transformative anchor to complement the North Boulder Library um in the North Boulder Arts District so I'm just sort of curious if there's something you just go oh my gosh with this thing we could we could really do this but that's just been an impossibility given the current restrictions

[155:00] foreign I would say one would be actually looking at zoning uses to allow for more industrial uses there um I think that's something that we face constantly in North Boulder we own and manage you know several hundred uh units that are full of mechanics but also artists um and we're constantly confronted with limitations on what people can do and so the combination of live works but works being more broadly defined or um you know even a mixture of that within a more industrial uses with with residential within this space I think could lead to more transformative work um or creative production um and then uh this isn't something for us but uh

[156:01] liquor licensing or the liquor laws are an issue and specifically where the museum is placed is strategic and where it can be served and is complicated and I think to further answer your question Matt we also took what the what we heard from the community and what the vision was and we put it Forward knowing that it doesn't meet the the zoning code as we know it and so that's a risk um but we know that we had support and this is a really Dynamic mixed-use project which fits in really well with the neighborhood versus the previous proposal and was a you know these large 2500 3000 square foot luxury condos with garages so that's what the zoning wants and we're we're going for something else and we really hope that we can have this discussion on how to get there with um we do think we have support from the community and the neighbors and a lot of

[157:00] the stakeholders but it it is a com you know this is a risk to put someone something forward that doesn't conform to the zoning I personally sit in a lot of these meetings and sit in a lot of these discussion Community discussions and this is what the community says they want you know this like flexible live workspace and mixed use and smaller units less you know we're right next to Foothills Park I mean you can literally you get on the trail and open space is right there so we looked at the idea of these larger units and you would just I think what was it 90 000 square feet of this three Acre Site would be which I think if I'm doing my math right is almost two two-thirds of the site would be open space which is just kind of Lawns and grass and private yards so we're bucking up against those open space requirements and other things that I know we're all trying to figure out how to Grapple with so we thought we'd go um we'd go for it I don't think there's anything we didn't put on the table uh

[158:02] that I think this is this feels like a really good solid um Community Driven proposal well I appreciate you going bold and we need more of that in our community so thank you thanks it's a little scary Matt thanks for asking what could what else they possibly could want I'm before I ask my question I just want to say Andrew how exciting it would be if we could put some industrial there with the live work I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one excited about that concept um my question is is um David for just one sentence you talked about affordable space that was um subsidized for artists and creatives do you have more you want to say about that or is it just too early I think it's a little too early I mean

[159:00] um from the initial conversations that we have with funders and people who had made pledges they are all in interested in how can be MoCA provides some additional space or residency and legal workspace for artists um I think there's a lot of things that we still need to talk and we need to further discuss this how can we make it possible in partnership with with Andrew underdevelop which is the developer um so and he and I we've been having conversations and we are figuring out a way to um bring the solution if this is something that that Council fills is is an opportunity and I think both of us are are excited about the opportunity and I um I I can say that Andrew if this is what Andrew does I mean most of the the warehouses that his family owns are

[160:01] occupied by artists and living artists that they're creating work so I think there's a path forward but there's we still need to um have more conversations I don't know Andrew if you want to add anything I just would like to add one more point which is um you know as I mentioned I'm from this neighborhood uh and I've seen it transform my whole life and I have been uh really reluctant to think about a future for these sites as as the buildings age um and need to be replaced um largely because of the informal nature that defines North Boulder and what makes it unique I think often what you see when things get developed is it loses you know touch with the community that once was there and so um in thinking about the museum um and a cultural anchor to define the neighborhood um I've also thought a lot about how to

[161:01] prevent um people from being priced out from both living and working there um because the moment that happens the neighborhood loses its character and uh you know and it loses what the intention of this was for and that comes from um shared workspaces that comes from live works that comes uh from intense Community engagement um but really trying to create something where people within the community can can come back to and we've seen it on our properties uh people rent out these huge spaces and then form collectives for themselves and uh I think that has been like what has catalyzed this neighborhood into the arts district it's it's not development right um it's the lack of development so how if we are to develop can we ensure that we create this space for people to continue to create and iterate

[162:02] um without it being you know a pretentious gentrifying Force okay Tara good all right that brings us to the end of our questions so it's now time to open the public hearing uh Elisha how many people do we have sign up for the public hearing we currently we didn't have anyone sign up for this public Hearing Center that's my tees this time and uh we will come back to council for a discussion so Chandler if we could get the key issues up please I think it's time to go through those and so Alicia has just put them in the chat maybe we can just read them from

[163:01] the chat so that we can see each other's faces rather than having the presentation up so I will read the thanks for that English the first key issue is would city council support either changes to the mu2u standards or a potential rezoning of the mu2 portion of the site to allow for the proposed Museum use and would Council recommend a flex zone designation if appropriate who wants to start us off on that one Bob then Matt um my answer is yes um I I'm someone agnostic and I would defer to staff on which process to use but I I think it was Lauren that asked a really good question which is why our museum is not allowed to Know YouTube are there allowed in other mu districts it doesn't sound like there's any good reason other than that's what somebody wrote down decades ago um and so absent uh some sort of compelling Community reason why we shouldn't have a museum there uh I I think we should do what we need to do to get a museum there uh sounds like a wonderful concept and a wonderful plan

[164:00] and if we need to fix rules that artificially prohibit that and we should fix them so I'll leave it to staff as to which the best process to go about but I would be in favor of doing one of those things to accommodate this very good Matt boss man yep sorry no I'm uh i s i support going that direction although it seems like mu2 isn't our only concern we have the RM restrictions with regards to those units so it seems like a flex zoning is the best way to go about trying to to meet all of those needs given those both the two zonings on the property so um whatever staff recommends but I see the flex being the most accommodating to the various needs um that this project has in order for it to be successful and be as transformative as we all hope and intend it to be very good Lauren and then maybe you'll get closure on this um I'd like to be the most obnoxious in terms of what I would like staff to do it seems like if we're not

[165:03] um if there isn't a strong reason for why we have why we don't allow museums as in the zone we should change that um I think that there are other things that we will need to do in addition to that we probably still would have to flex zone or do something for the site in order to allow the density um that they're looking at but I so I would like us to take the opportunity to make wide-ranging changes where they make sense and narrow changes if that helps move this forward Mark and then and I'll see if I can bring us to a close um yeah I'm supportive of the concept um but I I have one caveat um before I give that caveat I would rely on staff to point the best way of moving forward and the caveat is let's be very clear here we are picking

[166:00] winners and losers losers are going to be those businesses that are displaced uh on this property and um you know my concern is the equity considerations of that um uh the nature of those businesses who owns those businesses um and we want to be a little bit mindful of that uh having said that I am still in favor of getting a new home for uh bimoka um but I would like to know who it is that we are going to be removing from the site either by lease termination or otherwise um because as I said it's winners and losers and and the people who are not going to be able to operate their businesses there going forward are going to be the losers and Jenny did you want to comment on that I wanted to give all my comments at once because I don't have too much um for question one I would say yes on

[167:01] the flex zoning um and then two I would say also yes the land use map change or rezoning and also this is a conversation as well between staff and the applicants so as that conversation is going and you're looking at what's happening on the ground you get to choose what is the best way to move forward so yes to the flex zone yes to the land use changes I'll say yes to question number three as well and number four as of right now I don't have any further feedback when it comes to architecture and the site plan I know that I have seen Danica before Council many many times before with multiple of applicant um and I'm very confident that the architecture will be um will be one that we as a council will be okay with um so thank you for that

[168:01] all right thanks and I'm going to call in myself here does anyone object to a museum on this site any objections to museum on the site okay so that I think that that finalizes kind of question one but Rachel did you want to throw in here I'm just gonna give it a yes all right right on and then I'll just just add to that that like Lauren said I I see no reason to not allow um museums in mu2 so if we can get that done as part of this process why not um but I'll leave it up to the applicant staff about the most efficient way to proceed so then if we could move on to number two which is considering bdcp and and Northville or some community plan goals and policies with city council support a land use map change and or rezoning to 100 both portions of the site in order to allow for the proposed residential density or intensity yeah so um are people feeling generally comfortable with this we can go into some detailed comments but people are seeing seem pretty favorable so far

[169:00] I'm seeing some seen some nodding heads here we already heard from Juni does anyone want to offer an additional comment or can we just move right on along okay that that was easy for a complex question and I'll just say that this involves multiple steps um so you all have some work to do here but one thing I would encourage as we hit the North Boulder sub Community Plan update is to incorporate some language about the Art District as part of that so not just talk about this corner but talk about this this vibrant artistic future for for the the North Boulder subcommute line in this Corridor that can help to establish why we're making some of these other changes so I just throw that comment out there on that bit of the process Bob yeah I just want to follow into that last comment here because I think it's a really good point um you know the North Community Plan was created but in 1996 or something like that uh I've lived in North Boulder since 2001. it it's substantially uh changed um both from the standpoint of

[170:01] the makeup of of the commercial and housing mix but particularly because of the creation of the North Boulder Arts District and so I think we need the plan to catch up to what reality is and I think Aaron is absolutely right that we need to as long as we're going to fiddle with the plan we should have the plan reflect what really is going on in North Boulder it's not just this Museum it's all the things that have happened over the last 20 years around arts in that community and let's have that recognized let's go okay uh so maybe we can move on to number number three do we feel that on balance the project is consistent with the goals and policies of the comprehensive plan do you want to just nod that's good enough for me all right I'm seeing nods so then uh number four is on to the detail of do we have any feedback to the applicant on the conceptual site plan and architecture Matt

[171:01] uh we start to kind of address a number of things but just so it's clearly on the record I know it's been mentioned but I would like us to really zero in on this liquor license issue and how we can resolve that and and what are any of those interesting ways in which that is possible or or talking to our folks in the state but that would be something I'd love to see us try to resolve okay although isn't it resolved by putting a museum on the north side of the site yes yes so we Matt we did the the study with um we hire a lawyer a legal licensed lawyer who help us identify the side and if if the museum goes on the North End of the um of the lot we will be at 500 feet from the new um high school that Chinese Mountain will would be building will be of over 500 feet well and Theresa do you have a comment on that I do uh we were able to do a bit of

[172:00] research um since we last touched space about this uh just a little while ago um and there is a path forward um with a with a waiver as well and so um I feel confident that that we can accomplish this Rachel we're on just general feedback now all right that's all everything's a go um so I would like to say I think it'd be cool to engage growing up Boulder if that's possible you know when I think Arts I definitely think kids and I think that's a things to read um you know I think that they do great work and would be cool if they can engage on that um and then my second is uh to be a broken record but I wonder about a referral to tab um if this is the right moment for that I know that staff said earlier that would be a couple years out I assume that didn't mean we would delay the project a few years just so that's the timing it would go to tab right

[173:00] um because I think that where that is on North Boulder or on Broadway rather in North Boulder it there's some other stuff happening there and you know I don't know what's going to happen on the west side of that street eventually so you know I think that's we just had some some issues on the east side right near there and so one wondering if that is going to be looked at maybe asking tab about that and also about um just you know we're we're at exit and entrances and curb cuts and stuff like that I think it's always good to get tabs input there so I would ask for Council support for a referral to tab and I'll call on myself here and just like the one thing I worry about Rachel is that this this project is going to have to go through so many different steps that are time consuming and expensive that I I would hesitate to to put them through yet another hoop particularly given I think probably the only major transportation issue I see here is whether that easement access to

[174:02] the property to the West should be retained um and I don't I don't know that that question merits a whole review by time personally I don't think they need to keep it as long as the property owners willing but so I'd offer that as a Counterpoint yeah again I just think it's the West Side Broadway section there that is is potentially problematic or should be looked at you know with um during issues and things I think that we're worried about on the east side so I think two years from now tab might have a better sense of what's going on there and possible new Mups and things but I won't be here anymore so maybe we could do a potential referral to Tab and then you know two years from now y'all can just take it off if you needed to I think it'd be helpful yeah Bob I'm just wondering if there's a middle ground there because I I I do agree with Aaron that that um we're so so far out there's so much work that has to be done there I wonder if this is a discussion that we could park up

[175:01] unintended uh until um until the Project's a little farther along we've got some of these regulatory hurdles behind us and then somebody whether it's officer planning board um when we get to this kind of site review or EVO site review maybe that would be the appropriate time to to determine whether a tab referral is necessary I don't know staff if that's I know that normally we when we kick things over to tab a concept review but this feels to me like it's so far out and there's so many steps to happen it feels a little premature because I'm not even sure what questions we're asking to have because um a lot of things are still in flux now if I may also just say like we've been told pretty clearly that you have to refer a concept and you can't do it down the line like I've been told that explicitly by staff so I do think it's now or never and that's what we've been told in the past and I won't be here to object if that is you know is that law gets changed uh internally a year from now so I would feel more comfortable uh referring and then if you needed to pull it back

[176:00] Marriott did you have a thought on this I did and I just wanted to um uh ask Chandler again because I think he certainly mentioned um that referral could happen that it was a bit premature right now but that's certainly down the road as it was getting uh closer to um being ripe for it that certainly that was something that we were thinking about so I didn't want to leave the impression that we weren't um thinking about moving it forward and having to have uh and Dad weigh in as much as it's a timing issue but Chandler am I incorrect in that no you're correct um and also Council can refer it at site review or if you want to make a condition right now saying that they go to tab when they come in for site review we can do it that way um I mean it can be pretty flexible but I will just reiterate that it is super helpful if you are going to refer it to tab to come up with a couple like key issues or really specific things that you want to have to discuss if you want meaningful feedback thanks for that I I will say again like

[177:01] that's different than what I've been told within this same calendar year I think on when we can refer to Tab and dab that it's and and none of these referrals were done to tab prior to me asking for it at CU South so this is a fairly new process like within the last two years that we have done this at all as a as a council and I think we are working through some glitches there but I'd be worried that that um we will get different advice on a different day potentially on this issue so I'd be more comfortable referring and the conditions I would want is just you know look at the interface and parking conditions on Broadway and then look at at entrances and and exits and just weigh in on thoughts there and with that I'll let it lie and Rachel I can follow up on that because I totally like the the door Zone issue on the east side is a really big deal is there any contemplation of on-screen Autumn Street parking for Broadway as part of this Redevelopment yeah so in other words there's no way we would put parking next to the bike lane that exhibit that's just been built

[178:01] there correct with that in mind Rachel you met sorry Aaron if I may I met with Community Cycles yesterday and talked about this and I think they weren't the impression that we could put parking next to the bike lane and I don't that would never be Our intention or is it possible so I think um having gone to tab twice this week with Chandler I think having clear Direction on what you want us to look at or just maybe directing us to work with Community Cycles or staff to make sure that it's safe and the connections um are made is also very helpful so that we can start working on it now versus waiting until later so just to add on that we are at this point five years in in the making to get where we are now uh to you today and um because uh fundraising is necessary and contingent on certain timelines

[179:00] postponing an additional two years sounds terrifying well the referral to tab would not delay you two years it'd be like a couple months at most I think but but it would still be a little bit of a delay um yeah I only said the two years thing just because that's probably how long the North Boulder subcommunity Plan update and the bucp land use map and rezoning and stuff would take and knowing now that Danica met with Community Cycles where I also work I have to withdraw my motion I can't make a motion that is relevant to a conversation I think that they had um with the applicant so I will withdraw that and and anybody can go forward with it but I didn't I didn't know that conversation happened I guess great minds think alike thanks Lauren this might be a terrible idea but I think that Tab and dab probably it makes sense for this to go to them at some point before permit at the very least and I think that to some extent I would

[180:02] be interested in leaving that up to the applicant I think that how you know nobody knows their timeline better and when they might want to have this figured out and get feedback on it um whether that's earlier in the process or later in the process I feel comfortable leaving that up to them okay how do people feel about that proposal with I don't know thumbs up thumbs down kind of I'm seeing nodded heads thumbs up um so maybe we can take that form and I'll just add on to it so that the the applicant can request those um but I I would also request for Danica what Danica said is to work with Community cycles and staff to ensure that there's there's no um negative effects on bicycle and also pedestrian safety if people are comfortable with that and while I have the floor I just have one more thing on the site design I

[181:00] really liked your uh Paseo going south from the museum so that looked like a delightful off Street kind of car free area and I very much hope that as you go through design iterations that you keep that because I think that could be a delightful public space shielded from Broadway um and right next to the museum and hopefully get a cafe in there and what have you and so um I really like that about the cycling just put that out there uh Nicole and I just kind of want to follow since we're on the Kudos stage just um saying thank you um thank you David thank you um Danica thank you Andrew um you can really see the intention that has gone into this project to create a really Community centered vibrant space that's going to serve our community for many many decades moving forward and I just I so appreciate all the work that you are putting into this and making this space for our community and I'm so thrilled that I think trying to think about how I cannot retire up there or

[182:01] something once this is set but thank you so much thanks for that Nicole um and I'll just uh Lauren go ahead um yeah I just wanted to Echo that I mean your your care for this community and for this area of this community is evident in everything that you brought forward um you know I don't think that we take sort of this level of request in terms of exemptions and things like that lightly but that um you know the your passion for this and for really doing right by this place and these people is um wins us over so thank you so much Rachel I just want to say um to David and others I feel like you all kind of um took lemons and made lemonade for for getting at any building up and running like if I remember back to 2019 you know in the East End plans and

[183:01] um you know you you all have have been working long and hard at this so it's exciting to see it where we are today and kudos for sticking with it and you know again making the lemonade yeah I'll add my thanks and congratulations uh you know this is a complex thing that you're trying to do and you've chosen to do something challenging rather than what's easy and I'm glad to hear my colleagues and myself supporting that approach it's good to think out of the box sometimes we don't always do that in Boulder but I think this has the potential to be a transformational for uh the north part of town and the southern edge of the Arts District so very much looking forward to the next steps so with that did you all have any follow-up questions did we leave anything unclear or is that good enough um my only well I will let I'm gonna just ask a a technical question because that's where my brain is Chandler did you get enough feedback to move forward with the land use

[184:02] um discussion and uh because I that's to me we appreciate all the support and that's makes me smile but path forward is important Chandler did you get enough feedback on that I believe so um I mean from from what I heard council is uh supportive of moving forward with the Noba Plan update um to amend a Landis map and to pursue a flex zone there may be we may need to come back at some point with something a bit more formal for them to approve but I think we've got our marching orders as far as that goes can I just add two and I just appreciate the work staff has done and I'm gonna steal a word from Charles if this project is compelling to us as well as we're thinking about it but we need this support right to do something so radically different than is currently in our zoning code and just appreciate the clarity um as uh as we're hearing from Council

[185:00] to really try something new so it's an exciting project we got our marching orders and just appreciate the conversation yeah and with that we can say thank you and have a good night and we can move on to our next agenda item right take care thank you for your time thank you so much all right so at least if we can move on to our first matter please yes sir our matters our number item number five on tonight's agenda Matters from the mayor and members of council 5A is a discussion uh regarding a proposed unification of ballot measures seeking to extend the 0.15 sales tax and so this was a request from Matt Benjamin but I think we're going to hear from Finance staff a little bit first uh car is that right correct thank you mayor okay take it away okay great uh good evening mayor

[186:00] and Council car Skinner Chief Financial Officer we do have tonight just a brief presentation of the polling results um we discussed the poll with Council back in May and in June and as you know um the intention for the plan or the for the poll was to gauge likely voter support um and sentiment just overall sentiment uh sentiment regarding specific general fund Services priorities for funding and then to test some specific ballot language and as we shared in June we hired probolsky research to help us with that work pro bowlski research has hundreds of local government clients throughout the U.S in 27 States including others in Colorado and with that I am actually going to hand it over to Adam provolski who is president to share a very high level presentation with you and then be available for questions good evening thank you Kara uh I'm going

[187:00] to share with you a presentation and uh this is an executive version to to get uh the conversation going there's a lot more data behind this but uh we're sharing these details tonight and it's been a pleasure working with staff so with that I will give you some perspective on the survey itself the methodology and how we arrived at uh accurate data so uh this was a survey conducting the English and Spanish 400 likely Boulder voters uh participated in the survey to put that in perspective a Statewide survey in Colorado we'd probably do 900 or so sometimes less sometimes more so 400 in Boulder really robust the majority of our respondents uh chose to respond online which is just kind of the way we generally communicate these days but we did have a third abundance on the phone most of them were

[188:00] on uh on mobiles but there's still a few people that participate on landline so we were very inclusive in our approach and fully reflective of likely voters uh for 2023. so going into the data we ask almost always an initial question of what's the top issue facing the community uh and we it's an open-ended question they get to tell us all the words that they want to tell us whether it's on the phone or online and uh we categorize it so that's what this slide is is categorization of open-ended responses the actual verbatim responses the words they say uh were delivered to a report on results to staff that anyone can read through it's fun bedtime reading we overlay the demographic perspective of who it is that's saying it so you can get a sense of who it is their experience in life but here they've told us that the top issues to them are housing affordability homelessness and to some degree there

[189:01] public safety and it kind of drops off a bit from there um the what what's kind of also relevant here is what's not on the list or what's you know lower on the list water uh different moments in time could certainly influence uh the the things that are on this list but this is what they said uh on the days that we pulled so we asked them do you approve or disapprove of the job the city is doing delivering services this is that big question that uh they don't necessarily have to have an answer to in a lot of ways uh we're kind of not in touch necessarily with government but most people are and 62 percent say they approve of you as uh the services you're doing a couple things to point out first of all this is not an academic exercise the 62 percent you didn't get a d-minus or an F it's not the way it works we're Americans we don't agree on anything so when we have 62 percent it's a big win

[190:01] uh so this is a big positive number the other thing to look at here is the differential between the 35 and the 62 percent not quite two to one but really big differential between those two numbers we are never dismissive of our people who disapprove but the fact that there's so many more who approve is a really strong place for the city to be just in general and also compared to your peers we also specifically asked the same thing about sort of providing Services police fire uh and uh public spaces and facilities and arts and culture programs so you can see generally really strong numbers uh fire being the most um uh 89 police at 61 percent again similar you know almost two to one big different differential there um good numbers with maintaining public spaces and Facilities but kind of mixed a little bit more uh so you know a

[191:00] possibility for a place for attention and then really strong numbers there for arts and culture they're very happy with what you're doing today a big differential there between approve and disapprove the unsure I like to explain is not a is not us not doing our job it's the the fact that the public just doesn't have a context for it if you haven't had a fire if you haven't seen a fire truck in a few weeks if you're not you know engaged with with firefighters you just might have to have contact but these are most people have a pretty strong most people have an opinion which is actually better than most places with Poland people really do have an opinion have a sense of what's going on in their community in Boulder which is really great um we did ask a question about where you would want increased funding and we've laid out these topics these were prescribed topics uh they were rotated uh when presented or actually randomized I should say when presented to the respondents so of the 400 respondents the ordering was fully randomized and so

[192:01] you can see uh and one of the things we do is we allow them to choose three uh we like this format because some people have you know several priorities several places where they want more funding to be and you can see there's a little bit of a bunching there at the top with things like uh supporting homeless services and then addressing affordable housing and Human Services and also Public Safety they're kind of really rise to the top there we're never again dismissive of the ones that Cascade and are lower down but really you clearly have an identification of what they care about and where your public wants you to allocate resources uh and that could be a guide yes in policy making it's not you obviously a mandate it's a guide um so next is the question we asked them the question that'll be on the ballot about the sales tax and we ask it in two different ways to half the voters and as a one-way half the voters one way or the other this is the ballot language as

[193:01] largely we would expect it to be um there could be some minor changes to it but essentially the first one split sample a half the voters got the question uh should it be extended until 2024 or 2044 70 support 24 opposed we round up so you've got very strong numbers for support for extending this through 2044. we also asked the question to other the other half of the voters to be extended until ended by voters so you have the chance to potentially do it that way uh without kind of you know limiting it to a specific time certain and here the numbers are virtually the same right you had 70 to 23 and a half uh now you have 70 to 22 and a half I mean it's the same numbers um again this this becomes a policy decision for you all but you really have support levels for both options and then

[194:00] it's a decision to how you proceed uh if if this is a policy decision to move forward I'm putting something on the ballot for this these by the way um maybe a little more too granular for you but this is your likely voter turnout so pretty heavily female um and pretty heavily English speaking preferring English uh heavily older uh because again this is a likely voter and an off-year election uh heavily white heavily Democratic and non-affiliated independent voters and really heavily five out of five owners which are the people who show up in every single election they vote five out of five possible elections so really that's who we're we're looking at is this I mean you can kind of tell the profile of who it is that's going to show up and make these decisions in Boulder um I know that's a lot of data there's a lot behind that that staff has that we presented uh we are fully available for questions to dive in however you want

[195:00] certainly tonight and certainly offline we can you know have as many meetings as we need uh through staff to get you the data you're looking for thanks Adam we have questions for him Jenny you've got one yes uh I first want to thank you by the way for your presentation I did a um just last week I had a town hall on public safety and I can tell you based on that town hall I failed personally right it and sometimes we all see the world differently or think differently based on how people respond to us and I have to tell you I did not sense that there would be that many people who are in support of our Public Safety um how we engage or the way we provide services when it comes to that particular issue I have close to probably 100 people in the room and they

[196:01] were all in various ways not very um pleased with the work that um I can say I have done and we have done as a CD so to me to see that tonight um that's I I really appreciate to see that um but nonetheless I still hear those people in the community who are not happy um but I wanted to go back to something that I heard you say and please correct me if I'm wrong you mentioned the sample size which is about 400 people and I'm thinking we live in a city of close to 107 000 people how how is a simple size of about 400 people can really speak to um how is this polling reliable basically that's what I'm trying to get that get to is that how can that represent really how people will eventually vote um and I'm sure you've done this work before so I wanted some clarity on on

[197:00] that aspect thank you sure uh so as I said at the beginning uh I'll use Statewide not National because I don't know how much confidence we have nationally with numbers but on a Statewide basis um 700 900 a thousand is very predictive of outcomes and if you look at if you go back to I mean it's easy to look at this in terms of politics right you look back at a gubernatorial election uh in any given year and you look at one of those polls somewhere in those hundreds and or maybe a thousand respondents you'll see you know two three weeks out a month out it's very predictive of outcomes so that's one way of validating that that uh you know in a place the size of Boulder having something that's you know maybe half the size of a typical Statewide bowl is going to be accurate also in the hundreds of polls we do for other government agencies this is a um a greater than average sample size so just to give an example even in a place

[198:00] like Denver or Los Angeles or Miami 300 completed surveys can as long as it is fully accurate accurately reflective of the demographics and the geographic layout of the the respondents whether it's residents or voters or some other group it is very predictive and very accurate and there's there's you know some math that goes along with it but essentially the key component is making sure that we are dead on accurate when it comes to gender and age and ethnicity and geography within the community um that really gives us that confidence that whether it's 300 or 400 or greater it's going to be fully reflective of that that population thank you Adam thanks for uh being here tonight and thanks for doing the poll I know that this is a preview to a discussion around the ballot measures but I was intrigued by your commentary that um our

[199:01] I guess I'll call our approval rating that was in the 60s or low 70s was was pretty good can you Benchmark that for us I mean and you do do these surveys for for dozens of cities around the country how do we I mean can you throw some numbers out there on averages or medians like how how good are we doing compared to most cities of our size yeah so let me uh you're putting me a little bit on the spot and and the answer is yes for sure we can do that uh going forward but just because it might be easy for me um I can pull up our Arvada uh which which you know where and I'll give you an example what we might be able to do uh for you all as a you know something we can maybe you know share uh let me share that and unless you know only compares to Arvada if we look good uh well here let's see I don't I don't uh I don't know we're gonna show this until that staff tells me I shouldn't do this um so here's what we did for Arvada

[200:00] um you can see there was there there's was a community survey so it was a different purpose um so you can see police uh right here and parks and I don't know if we had fire on there but this is the kind of thing we might be able to do taking the data that we do have and comparing you to your neighbors so if staff tells me hey let's compare ourselves to these five cities or these three cities we're happy to do that and give you something that looks like that that make sense yeah and remind I'm just looking your right direction wrong direction numbers that were in the 30s and 40s is that comparable to the question you ask about uh our voters or our residents about whether they're happy with the services we've provided yeah I I think so but but and so we have to find some equivalent question but also I think the important thing here to keep in mind we may not have an Apples to Apples Benchmark because we're talking about a very high propensity group of Voters which as I kind of laid out is a very unique group that let's

[201:01] say kind of looks like you um versus your broader Community which has a profile that might be a little more diverse so I want to be cautious about benchmarking based upon Community results versus a likely voter universe okay well thanks Adam the mayor please Darren Frozen I was just curious that took us an embarrassing long time to realize didn't it that was no disrespect to you Adam no I think our mayor froze out how did we lose and we may have lost him I don't see him in the panelists list I see him now okay yes I see him now Mark it's go time

[202:07] I was gonna say it was such a satisfied electorate when do I put in for a raise we we didn't ask that question this time or at least more perks shorter hours we're still on questions is that where we've left it I think so and and I know that there's a different discussion that we had but if there's other questions you want to Adam or the team certainly they can answer them I don't think we lost the mayor it's a process question I know that um we kind of rushed staff and Adam for a quick presentation tonight which was not a plan uh because we added something to tonight's agenda at the last minute um Adam or or Cara are we going to have a more um a second or more thorough presentation of the of the survey

[203:00] results when we were scheduled to do that which was I think next week uh uh thank you for that question I think it's up to council you know if you would like a more in-depth presentation we are happy to do that we're we certainly could just be open to further questions um at the agenda at the meeting next week after you've had more opportunity opportunity to look at the report um either way we're open to however Council would like to handle it and I assume that we're gonna at some point in time we're gonna publish I don't think we have we has that been published did you publish that today we put it to hotline um we can certainly attach it to the agenda item for next week some of us are not getting hotline these days um that's a problem that it's working at so um I didn't get it and uh and apparently some of us have not got hotline for the last 30 days so that's a separate issue that we all should be aware of okay that's good to know we could certainly I think attach it to the agenda item for next week thank you could we say the hotline went cold

[204:01] it's it's a cold line now I'm gonna take the opportunity to call a Nuria even though it's not my job thank you very much I was just going to say that I heard from the mayor that his internet went out and he would let mayor Pro tem for your [Music] time for you okay you're up uh well if I don't know if there's additional questions Judy thank you well my understanding I wanted to hear more from maybe Matt or Bob us to because my understanding part of this conversation relates back to the ballot measures so now hearing what we heard from Adam how does that impact us moving forward and I don't want to say more because I feel like that's your presentation um Matt and Bob thank you Mark I can I can I could take that if

[205:02] you're ready for us to dive there I I am Matt why don't you lead off and uh and give us a an update as to where things are I appreciate that um well so far Aaron uh certainly it was involved in this as well so I don't want to forget uh forget our mayor um hopefully he'll get back in and be able to say um uh his perspective on this as well um but you know with regards to these surveys results right these survey results and I can speak for Bob and I on the charter committee these this was in motion um prior to um the Arts measure um getting its certified signature so this process was was sort of going and so I guess to the earlier question that maybe Bob had about whether we want to come back to this it really centers on if this Council decides that we want to unify these ballot measures then coming back to those results may not be necessary because we're moving in a slightly different direction than those results are actually informing us about

[206:00] um but but if not then then maybe that's the case so maybe we can sort of table that I don't know if Bob agrees there um to some extent um but but nonetheless um that's sort of where I feel that goes but with regard to Aaron's back awesome um so so where I would sort of kick off is where the um CAC note came out was really with regards to conversations with the uh representatives of the um ballot petition committee about is there a way to unify these ballot measures right we had 0.15 potentially going all the way to the Arts or staying within the general fund going in completely different directions was there a chance for everybody to not just wit not just gain a little but everyone had to lose a little too and was there an opportunity for us to figure out how to unify these and so that is uh what some discussions had led to and and I think this was the best case scenario in terms of making sure that nobody was sort of left out of it and to make sure that the community really had one thing to evaluate uh on the ballot and so that's why in the note what was uh sort of

[207:02] informally agreed upon it really takes us to sort of vote the something we want to move forward was that we would look at maybe splitting the 0.15 50 50. um and not picking a dollar sign um the 50 50 was deliberate because then as that sales tax revenue grows um each party's share of that Revenue grows as well um and so it was important for us to make sure that that as sales tax goes up or down so does each group's share of that be it the city and or the Arts so so that was um really the deal that was um and and really the the arrangement that was struck in trying to unify these two ballot measures um and that's what was brought forth via CAC um and so there's really that kind of conversation in front of us is do we feel that it's a a good thing for us to unify these two ballot measures um and in talking with the Arts folks they are very interested in seeing us find a way to build collaboratively going forward um and realizing that this is the floor and not the ceiling and I think that's an important thing for us to consider

[208:01] we've got four thousand people it supported this ballot measure to get on the ballot we don't want to ignore that so looking at this as a floor not a ceiling and the fact that you know this doesn't foreclose any conversation about additional funding that may come down the road but that is for a future Council um to weigh in on and so that's really what's in front of us with regards to uh potentially unifying these two ballot measures um and so I saw Aaron pop in right as I had gotten started but I wanted to maybe turn over to Aaron or Bob since since they worked on this as well to see if they have any additional comments that they want to add before we maybe field some questions um and and have some larger discussion if that Matt so appreciate you bringing this forward and so I'll call on the people who have their hands up I got many of them Bob Mark Rachel and Nicole well thanks and Matt's done a great job of summarizing first I want to be very very clear that while some of us including um Matt and Aaron and I have had some conversations with the leaders of the development measure we've been

[209:00] super clear in each one of our discussions that we do not speak for counsel we only speak for ourselves that any decisions relating to the ballot measures will be decision made by Council jointly and so no no deal has been struck no agreement's been made this is simply a discussion that's been happening ongoing um others may have had discussions with the Arts folks as well and that's great secondly there is precedent for um a group to um successfully go out and collect sufficient signatures to get measured on the ballot and then sit down with counsel and make some adjustments to that ballot measure we've done that I think twice at least Aaron coming if I'm wrong in my timeline Council maybe even more times and um and that has the tendency to make the ballot measure even better um I I applaud the leaders of this ballot measure for going out and getting sufficient signatures and getting themselves certified but I also applaud them for then their willingness to sit down with council members and talk about how

[210:01] the ballot measure could be improved upon and how it could be most likely to be successful that's particularly poignant in this situation where we we had we have I guess I could say past tense because I hope the council will support um what Matt is suggesting we we have the potential for two competing ballot measures one is one the city had has been intending to put on in 2023 for a couple of years we knew this tax was it was going to be expiring and we have intended and we've talked about the last couple years about putting this ballot measure on uh by the city the Arts folks um had had slightly different ideas and they wanted to have the the funds um Extended but dedicated to the Arts and so what that meant or what that means I suppose at this moment in time until we change our plan is that um we would have two competing ballot measures on them in uh Teresa correct me if I'm wrong but I think section 53 of the sea charter

[211:01] that says if there's two ballot measures on and they're competing or they're they're inconsistent and they both pass the one that gets the most votes wins or dominates and um I think we all felt kind of icky about that I don't I don't think that I think this Council has been and prior councils have been working very very hard to increase funding for the Arts and I've first joined Council in 2015 our funding for the Arts was two hundred thousand dollars um and we adopted in 2015 a 10-year plan a cultural master plan which targeted an increase in the funding for the Arts from two hundred thousand dollars in 2015 to 2 million dollars by 2025 and we're almost there right now I think if you take out the arpa funding I think this year we're at 1.8 million and I suspect we'll be at 2 million dollars by next year so um that's been great progress and that's been great success but I think many people in the Arts community and many people who support the Arts Community would say that's not enough that's great and and brought to that big hole and so the Arts Community came

[212:01] together and collected sufficient signatures on the ballot to um to seek um a dedication of the entire 0.15 tax to um arts and just in numbers or dollars that comes out to about so it will come out to about seven and a half million dollars compared to the 1.8 million that Arts receives in funding right now so that would be a pretty significant jump and so there to their credit the leaders of the um of the ballot initiative sat down with several council members of the last few weeks and said you know what we're not trying to be greeting here greedy here we have 4 000 people who supported this when you think that there's going to be sufficient voters to support dedicating the entire tax but we also recognize the fact that this tax currently is used for general fund purposes for all sorts of things like Public Safety and and Roads and and parks and all sorts of other things and so maybe we can strike a deal here where there's a substantial portion of it used for the Arts but not all of it used for the Arts and leaving somebody behind for the general fund and after some discussions

[213:01] with several council members um The Proposal was 50 50 and that's there's some Elegance in 50 50. that would result in a pretty substantial increase in funding for the yards from 1.8 million dollars currently to about 3.7 million dollars uh starting in 2025 roughly a doubling um and as Matt said that's not a that's not a cap it's not like 3.7 million that's all you get always and forever that's just that's a dedication that's a floor and there's the potential that future councils whoever's on the future Council can then it could add on to that that'll be a decision for someone else to make and so I I applaud the Arts leaders for their willingness to potentially forego 100 tax and and say well we'll settle for a 50 tax because we believe in the greater good of the community and and we want the general fund to continue to be funded for all sorts of other purposes there is precedent for this we have done this before uh Teresa can correct me if I'm long but we we identify what one we things we do when somebody pulls a petition is we identify who the um

[214:01] remember the right word for it but the owners of that petition are there's three or four designated people who are kind of the leaders of that and they have the power and the authority to withdraw or modify the petition even though it's been signed by 4000 of people we don't have to go back to All 4 000 people if Council puts on a ballot measure that's a little different than what was approved they have the authority to withdraw that and then there could be a unified ballot measure which is really what we're talking about tonight where rather than having a City ballot measure that's 100 to the general fund or a Arts ballot measure which is 100 Arts we would we would put on Council would put on a 50 referred ballot measure 50 per hour 50 poor uh general fund uh and if we did that the leaders of the designated leaders of that petition would rather petition you would all stand shoulder to shoulder both Council and the Arts community and advocate for that particular ballot measure and really de-risk the whole fight over you know who wins and who gets the most vote

[215:00] and all that kind of stuff and we would all stand together and I think that's something that was in a very very strong message to the community so I hope that my Council colleagues will consider this proposal as a good and fair compromise that respects the desires of the 4 000 people who signed the petition but also recognizes that we do need some of this money for the for the general funds thanks can I add something to that um but Aaron but I did I didn't want to I want to make sure you have a chance to speak on that as well but I just wanted to add a caveat based on some of the emails we've received all right go ahead and then we'll get to the other people great so just for some context we've received some emails that sort of refer to this 50 50 but also refer to in addition to a you know having 1.8 million um and so I think it's important to speak to that and and what's important about that is the Arts Community is looking for transformative change for the Arts and and I totally get that and there's 4 000 plus people that support that type of change with regards to funding for the Arts and look we just got done talking about how transformative moving B Mocha

[216:00] North would be there's conversation about a Performing Arts Complex that there's a lot of big needs in the Arts community and big needs need big money um and so um what's important about that is is I think where we have the opportunity to have that conversation is that we haven't even set this year's budget let alone next year's budget there will be a new Council next year and so that 1.8 is an important thing to keep open on the table for discussion but is it something for us to be decided and so um they're certainly going to Lobby us they're certainly going to Lobby candidates to say do you ex do you uh or do you support you know having that funding be 50 50 plus 1.8 to which case that's a conversation for next year but that's not what is uh gonna be on the ballot for this year that 1.8 has nothing to do with the ballot measure because it's simply just about about the 0.15 but they're still part of that aspirational nature of what the Arts Community feels is the right amount of money to make them whole to get them where they need to get our community where it needs to be with regards to supporting the art so I just want to give context to why we saw 50 50 and

[217:01] that 1.8 in some of that contextual email that we received from some of the supporters uh of the Bill of that measure but or of the unifying but I just want to give context that it is it's there but it's also a separate conversation to be had for next year's budget and you know feel free as as colleagues to speak to where you are on that but that's a that's really a debate for for next Council but I just want to make sure we understood where that piece is in relation to um the 0.15 and uh how we divvy that a dedicated funding up uh in 50 50 which is the proposal on in front of us yeah thanks for getting that out there Matt I appreciate it uh okay Mark next and then Rachel then Nicole yeah I'm gonna take a different perspective I I'm very grateful um that the Arts people have uh come forward and that they're prepared to discuss this um I I think that is gracious on their part they certainly have qualified to put their ballot on the uh their initiative on the ballot

[218:01] uh but as the old joke goes it's it's not the principle it's the price um 50 of this tax is about 3.8 million dollars that is a doubling of what we are providing for the Arts um today I don't know of any other department that overnight gets to double its funding and the fact that we are still talking about the additional 1.8 um on top of that um is is part and parcel of what I think has has been missing in the conversation uh as the sponsors have marketed this initiative because they've said you know we can raise all this money without new taxes but they have never discussed the impacts on programs and services that might result from doing this and it is uh you know we have we have a numerable

[219:00] priorities in Boulder including creating affordable housing providing services for the homeless uh Staffing our rec centers you know keeping our pay structure competitive for our employees and and even um filling potholes removing snow um and instead of being uh sensitive to that we're looking to guarantee money over the next uh very extended period of time uh when all of those other priorities are contingent upon tax receipts in a given year but the Arts is going to be guaranteed a doubling of their budget and on top of that are going to be expecting us to appropriate more money on top of that I could probably [Music] uh you know in the spirit of compromise barely accept um a 50 50 allocation uh if we were

[220:00] clear that we were going to zero out the 1.8 because doubling the Arts budget now is is a a very very uh significant increase um you know over the past decade as Bob has mentioned we've increased our spending many times over and I think there's a willingness to continue that process of increase almost everybody on this Council I think is supportive of the Arts and hopes to increase cultural investment um but to do it on a guaranteed basis at that level of increase is really a bridge too far for me um and when you look at the numbers from the polling and and where that where the community believes its higher priorities are um I I am very very troubled um but I have 50 50 split if there's even a hint that we're going to go a dollar beyond that not that we wouldn't

[221:01] go you know maybe in five years uh beyond that but um no other department no other department gets doubled in a year um and then get and gets guaranteed that they will have their budget doubled moving forward um and and if we have another you know pandemic situation um that money is not going to be available for any other purpose other than the Arts even if there's no Arts at that time so I am very reluctant to remove the discretion from our finance department to be able to make the kinds of allocations they need to make on an annual basis and they do it in a very serious way they bring it to the financial strategies committee and then FSC comes to the council and asks for its blessing and these are very difficult decisions they're almost excruciating decisions on an annual basis and now we're taking that discretion away and saying

[222:01] um you know this is guaranteed money uh going forward I'm I'm not there I'm sorry okay thanks Mark Rachel when I raised my hand I was just gonna ask what what's this process like what am I supposed to weigh in on but now I'm just going to try and wing it having seen what others have done um so I guess one thing is I'm I'm a little bit peeved that um I got a lot of calls over recess about like here's where we are with this you know what people are thinking can you would you like this you know formulation of a compromise and we got to a compromise and then somehow it changed and that's a little aggravating because I feel like there was a lot of time and energy put into something that sounded like you know the the groups whoever was talking were thinking that something was going to work so I'm aggravated that I didn't know I didn't I didn't know about it and until like today and and so that didn't

[223:02] give a lot of time for responding so just put out that aggravation I also um I'm not running for re-election there's no way I'm gonna say I will certainly support X dollars on an ongoing basis like I won't be here and it's just and if I were here I'd probably still wouldn't commit because I did serve during the pandemic that was my early formative experience and when the you know what hits the fan stuff changes so I I would be loathe to to commit any um part of the budget like that um that I I would feel would tie my hands of some crisis erupted and you know I think the Arts is hugely important I was someone who wanted us to dedicate um extra you know percentage to the Arts um and we're we're doing that and I just don't think extra part of the budget makes a lot of sense when

[224:00] um there are just competing needs and you don't know what the picture is going to look like in a year and and so certainly um I think that probably all we can realistically commit to tonight is do we want 50 of that to go to the Arts and I think it's sort of um a little bit you know it could turn out to be um I don't know artificial to promise something that you don't know if you're going to be able to to follow through with and you certainly can't commit to what any future council members are going to do so I'm I'm happy to do the 50 I remain a little aggravated that it feels like the goal post moved um but that's okay um I don't see how we we go beyond that and and have any legs to stand on thanks thanks Rachel if I can just pop in here just to clarify I think on what's what's on the table for discussion is whether we have a unified ballot measure that's 50 50 general fund and arts and that that's it people can throw in extra

[225:01] opinions on whether in some year there should be additional funding but I think what's in front of us tonight is uh do we want to move forward with the unified development measure that's 50 50. so people can throw in whatever other thoughts they want to but that's the specific question that we're dealing with uh I got Nicole and then Tara and then Lauren thank you um and I'm going to start with a few questions probably for finance stuff um just because I I appreciate that folks left me alone while I was with my family but that also means that I don't really have a whole lot of information um kind of coming in tonight so I've got just some questions for for finance stuff um I put on their videos okay thank you and then just just let me know whenever okay yeah bye see you hikara hey Mark um so one of the one other questions that I had is just um from what Bob was saying it sounds like um our Arts funding has really increased quite a bit over the past decade is that right

[226:02] good evening Council Mark wolf budget officer um that's correct council member sphere um the numbers I was able uh to gather was back to um 2017 was the latest year um Arts funding has gone up about 117 percent um comparing I'm sorry 2016 to 23 and that's compared to the overall general fund which went up about 42 over that time okay and um have have other departments seen that that type of increase in that time do you have any sense of that I know the general fund just went up 42 but yeah that's a good question generally departments know not that large of an increase this office I mean the funding that we're looking at is the office of arts and culture and that office has bounced around a little bit across a couple different departments first in library you know Community Vitality so

[227:00] um hard to say exactly office compared to department but yeah I mean certainly compared to the general fund as a whole um it's a it's a pretty large increase okay um and I'm just wondering I mean it is you know this is a really large increase have we changed anything about our criteria for how we fund Arts organization and artists in our community that we haven't kind of seen this increase in other departments too I'm going to phone a friend like that officer and I have some options I'd eliminate them for you I hope I can count myself as a friend then um thank you for the question councilmember Matt stanski with the office of arts and culture and um you know the the last time that there was a major renovation of the Arts grants was in 2016 with the adoption of the cultural plan since then um the process and the criteria have been pretty much the same with the exception of two major changes to diversity and Equity criteria and

[228:01] process [Music] diversity Equity inclusion criteria is that from my understanding that correctly that's correct but the increase in funding has been largely around addressing um the shortcomings uh the needs in the grants program for um bringing additional um grant opportunities online okay all right thank you um and I think another question that I have is just around the kind of racial Equity tool um was that used in any way and kind of getting to this potential compromise ballot measure um does that inform our decision in any way and thank you Matt as well as I disappear and that maybe that's a question um for Matt uh Aaron Bob folks who were involved what were the

[229:02] how did racial Equity fit into working on this compromise racial Equity will largely we didn't discuss that in a function because this was about two competing ballot measures that were going after the money differently and finding a way in the middle so um that there was really nowhere for us to insert that in such a short period of time of the conversations we were having to find a way to unify these ballot measures although I will say that part of the thinking and the discussion is that the criteria around the granting of grants in the last few years has shifted to have a heavy Equity component to it so that as part part of the thinking and the analysis is that more funding for the Arts will necessarily go in a pro-equity racial and otherwise Direction because of the way the criteria are set up

[230:00] um and then I'm kind of going to piggyback on what some of uh what mark my council member well like uh mayor protem Malik was talking about um how do how do you all see this compromise aligning with our commitment to a financial strategy that moves us away from dedicated funds I'll answer that not good um you're absolutely right Nicole it um it moves in the out if if the philosophy is to move away from dedicated funds this does not move away from dedicated funds and so what this ends up being is a bit of a cost benefit analysis right which is we're faced with some not good choices thanks to our good friends in the Arts group um who put on 100 dedicated tax so the question is um do we like dedicated taxes many of us don't I don't um would we rather have a taxes 50 dedicated or 100 dedicated I guess those are my two choices I picked 50. okay so sort of a cautious approach to

[231:00] um it's it's uh not a good place to be in [Music] and it's really it comes down to your your analysis of what you think the odds are that that if we went with two competing ballot measures the city one would get more votes than the artist one would that's why I think it was a very great for the pollster to be able to come on and tell us what he saw um and and I think we're counselors being asked to do or some of us are asking our colleagues to do is to to to kind of um risk that out and say do we want to take our chances at The Ballot Box uh knowing that we could end up with 100 dedicated tax we'd rather pay a safer route and have a 50 dedicated tax I think from a dedicated tax standpoint many of us don't like them but um that's not probably one of the choices on the table right now okay um and I think then possibly another question for you all who were doing some of the negotiating did the group kind of put in this

[232:00] position forward um give us any indication of what programs and services they feel we can cut to dedicate this funding like any any ideas I'm feeling like I I want to phone a friend here what are we going to catch to make this happen great great question Nicole and the answer is no we um I I can speak for myself and others have talked to them and you know we I asked that question many many times you know do you want us to cut back on public service you want to cut us back on pothole repairs I mean there's a lot of things that we have a lot of priorities on and um the response has been focused primarily on the seeming windfall that we'll receive as a result of the library district um and of course you've heard since you're on the financial strategy committee and I'm a member Council you've heard of some of the reallocation of some of that that um those benefits that we're going to receive when we're relieved of the burden of funding the library some of those have been allocated now for very very good purposes and the staff has reserved some of those for future needs and of course

[233:02] there's a property tax bill emissioner that's um on that's a Statewide measure that provides a little bit of uncertainty to us from a revenue standpoint um but I think they're they're if they were on Now their short answer to your good question would be um look to the library windfall and I can I can be a little more specific than that because um staff send us out um financial analysis um this was a week and a half ago I want to say something like that you know that that talked about the the future of the the library funding and uh in it it talked about how there are um I think there are three major categories where we've already essentially planned um to dedicate funding towards which are the The CARE program um the uh day Center um and the bond payments for the Alpine possum site and those together totaled um I believe a little over five million dollars maybe close to Six with uh with the library savings being in the 10

[234:00] million dollar range so the 3.8 dedication of Arts funding actually fits pretty neatly within that that it still allows us to to commit the to those three significant um expenditures that we've been planning on making um whilst not requiring us other programs because of that addition available so that that analysis was done thank you for that Erin and um the and maybe uh Mark wolf could kind of speak to this a little bit my understanding from Financial strategies was that in in what we at all agreed to was that the library funding was kind of going to be rolled into our regular budgeting process this year because we have something like 70 million dollars worth of unfunded um need in the city for things like Rec Center repairs and and other things that that you know folks need so um Mark I'm wondering if you could speak to that a little bit sure uh Jana's mayor Brock had mentioned

[235:01] Council has made some decisions that impact that funding and so um to to the mayor's point we'll have to memorialize those officially um in the 24 budget um you're right about that uh it's all about trade-offs right so we're putting together the budget right now um departments have put forward their best um uh their overall needs what uh you know truly would move the needle as they see it and it's really difficult stuff and so um you know certainly based on Council Direction we'll build the best budget we can within whatever parameters we have um Library reallocation helps us and um to those programs The CARE program uh safe and manage public spaces being another um you know all of those need to need to find a home considering that work is currently ongoing so it's at some point it's it's all about trade-offs uh nature of budgeting

[236:04] and then one of the other things I'm wondering you know we've got uh well I think this is sort of a comment before I sort of get to my summary summary comments um just you know from thinking about this from an equity angle and kind of how we're going through our process of allocating funds in the first place um when we're able to do that from a holistic budget perspective I think we can think about these trade-offs we can kind of think about for example the feedback that we got from the community connectors um as to what kinds of things we should be prioritizing something like this really you know we can we can sort of Implement things a little more equitably once they're within a department but the process of putting it there in the first place hasn't really gone through um the the tool or general sustainability Equity resilience framework and that that really gives me pause because we're not just talking

[237:01] about you know fifty thousand dollars here this is a pretty substantial amount of money um you know one of the things that I'm wondering about and almost almost done with my questions we have this new ranked Choice um option is that just for candidates that we can use that or could we potentially use that to offer voters a suite of things that they could rank or is it just for just for candidates and that's a um anyway just wondering if that's within the realm of possibility there are certainly uh so the short answer is no um by State Statute we would not be able to use that for measures um so but that is a great place to think that is greater greater form of more participatory democracy so that's a great conversation to have with our friends at fairvote and RCV for Colorado and those that advocate for those

[238:00] alternative voting methods I'm in a colloquai question I thought there was a method where you can say this you know in this example it would be like voters you know should we extend the the 15 the 0.15 tax if yes then um do you want to uh extend it at this rate or you know another one would be like do you want to extend it at this rate so I think you can kind of circumvent that arguably Maybe a little bit so uh Teresa I wonder if you could weigh in here because I think it maybe you can confirm a factual statement that you couldn't do our ranking but is there a way to do a series of questions similar to what Rachel is talking about yeah I I can confirm that we cannot do a ranking um and and as to whether we could do a series of questions I'm happy to look into that because I think with Excel we had you

[239:00] know an an A and B part and I think there was something else maybe where we had right like if then then this the I don't know worth looking at also because whichever one if they're all going for the same funding and only one can pass and whichever one gets the most votes would be enacted in some ways if they were just all on the ballot it would accomplish a similar thing would you like 15 per the 0.15 at 100 would you like 0.15 add 75 at 50 at 25 it not at all maybe a bunch of things but I want to give Nicole the floor backs sorry thanks for letting us yeah no no no worries it was interesting uh future future discussion when we're not also tired and going off track a little um I I just I want to ask you know why why didn't we deputize some people um or maybe FSC to think about this when

[240:00] it has such giant budget implications I think because these are this is a political conversation for us to be having um that that's the nature of this this is a um we are weighing the politics of having two competing ballot measures going for the same amount of money and as elected officials it's our job to sort through the politics and the community interest as to the impacts of that um so having staff they would be immediately weighing in on policy and policy discretion and that's something we try to shelter staff from is taking political positions on things so um I hear what you're saying but I think we would quickly tread into water where staff would be immediately deferring back to us for judgment on the politics that ensues real quickly when we're dealing with a a city of Boulder ballot measure and then a ballot measure supported by the residents for over 4 000 signatures to put it on the ballot so I I hear what you're saying but I could quickly devolve back to the state in which it currently resides yeah and

[241:01] and I mean I guess I'm like what what I would have loved in terms of process as if we had talked about it as account Council first like do we want to go and you know work on a compromise kind of measure rather than you know having having that sort of be happening and then come after the fact because it it does feel especially coming back after the recess like it's it's just it's hard there's a lot of information that we're trying to process on something that's really um you know really critical here and and the politics you know involved in how we fund our operations has real implications for staff and for everything that that we do in a city so it does just feel like like this kind of discussion I think in the future I would really love you know if we could kind of have it as Council first and then go on because it's it's a little hard for me that you know in our that our group discussion is happening kind of after this negotiation has sort of come through and it um you know when when this negotiation is

[242:01] already um taken place and we're talking about you know five million dollars plus of our um annual budget and I think especially Financial strategies committee it would have been nice if we could have kind of talked this through and provided some feedback um since it does have pretty big budget implications um I will kind of get to to where I'm going now um which is totally totally hear your points and basically the this is the council discussion if Council says do you know what that this this is not something we're interested in then you know we either say no or start over you we could go in exactly the direction that you're saying if a majority of council would like to designate a subcommittee to go off and talk about it further that's totally on the table so none of these things are are impossible there's not an either or choice you know we there's a possibility here that the organizers of the ballot measure have agreed to people so that makes it kind of a smoother choice but there are other

[243:01] choices available to counsel um this is not uh predetermined and so you know you as as a member of council can certainly say no to this you can also advocate for taking a different course add on to that to Nicole just so you understand the timing this ballot measure was certified right before we went on break and some of the leaders of the ballot measure reached out to some of us who were on break and said can we talk and during the course of the break I remember I had several phone conversations and several emails while I was on the Danube River in Eastern Europe with these folks and so some of us took our time from the break to respond to the emails and phone calls of the ballot measure leaders who wanted to talk to us during break and Matt to his credit you know on Friday said Hey listen we've received some inbounds from these people they want to talk about this let's put it on on the very first meeting we have back from break so I absolutely agree with you that in a perfect world where time is no uh not of the essence and we were not on break if

[244:00] they'd come to us somebody would have said hey let's T this up for Council discussion delegated committee deputize them and have them go off and have these discussions but this was an Outreach by these people to some of us were on break all of us were on break some of us responded to their their emails and phone calls during break and Matt to his credit on T this up for the very first discussion as Aaron says this is no negotiation there's no agreement we were very very clear of those of us who spoke to them that we do not speak for counsel that we were happy to listen to what they had to say that we were going to take it back to our Council colleagues and that's what we're doing tonight and if a majority of council does not want to pursue this that is perfectly fine this is this is the first and only discussion we've had about this there is a little bit of a Time sensitivity because we are under the gun to get ballot measures teed up here over the next few weeks as a matter of fact we're scheduled to take a first first reading vote on ballot measures next week and so I think the question that's being asked of council members is as as haphazard as this process has been during our break is do we want to instruct staff there's

[245:02] two ballot measures that staff has prepared they're in our packet right now one is is the city um ballot measure which says 100 of the funding will continue and Go to the general fund the alternative is the one we're required to put on because the petition was certified which is 100 of the money will be going to the Arts uh funding and the question that council is being asked tonight as as short short notices it has been is do we want to ask staff to prepare yet a third ballot measure that says 50 50. we can then take that up and first read it in a second read and decide which of those three violent measures we want to move forward anyway thanks for for the interruption Nicole but if you're the floor is yours yeah thank you um so yeah I mean I think I I'm I'm reluctant to move forward with a compromise measure um largely just because I'm really reluctant to have this body be the one to dedicate These funds um it really feels like it's going

[246:00] against our financial goals of moving away from dedicated funding um it also feels to me like it goes against our adopted and approved racial Equity plan that includes sending big decisions through a racial Equity instrument um to me the poll that we saw of likely voters this fall makes it pretty clear that likely voters are prioritizing housing and Behavioral Health expenses if we're going to be allocating more funds to things that are already in our budget at the same time I do want to honor that the Arts Community got so much voter support they got 3 500 signatures in a matter of weeks to support this measure so clearly our community wants um you know the the folks who sign the the petitions really would like more Arts funding so given these two pieces of information I would much rather let our voters decide than to take away their choice we don't have infinite funds and there are all kinds of hard financial decisions that we're going to need to get used to making I understand that we may get more sales tax revenue

[247:01] to offset the loss of this general fund Revenue if we have more Arts events I also hear the business Community saying that businesses are leaving our community because of the homelessness crisis that we're experiencing and if we don't do more to address homelessness with some social services addiction housing we're going to lose sales tax revenue so this is a really complex issue as to how we spend the limited money that we have and for me it's a decision that I would really like the community to decide on so they can be content with it so I would really like to send the Arts measure to the ballot as it is along with our general sales tax renewal measure if voters would like to fund the Arts instead of more General things like rec centers Parks Emergency Services housing assistance homelessness police fire all of that I would really like it to be their decision because I don't want this body to be the one that's going against our financial and racial Equity commitments because once we start letting go of these important goals that we and previous councils

[248:01] agree to where do we stop with that um if we do move forward with a compromise measure I would just really like to make sure that the racial Equity instrument is applied before any funds start being allocated just sort of revisit it with this larger pool of money in mind um and I'd really like to have the option to make use of extra funds if there's a formal emergency that requires more funds being used for Human Services and social Equity um and I don't you know I don't know totally know how to do that but I trust that staff could kind of figure that out in in creating a measure so if we're going to move forward with a compromise measure I will not be voting for it but if we do move forward with the compromise measure I would really like to think about how we can include some things within that that are going to um help it align a little bit more with the sustainability equity and resilience framework that we are working with now as we're doing our budgeting process

[249:00] thanks do you mind if I add something to that just to help for just some some clarity for uh Junie was asking for a colloquies I mean can I call it we um on the back end of that so June you want to get that call Queen sure thank you um I want to add that I do appreciate the comments made by Nicole and part of the reason why it's because as a member of the financial strategy a former member and I think it goes back to something that Mark said earlier that we have so many different priorities I wish that maybe there could have been a balance what are the trade-offs hey if we go for 50 50 here's what we're giving up and as of today I did not hear that as part of the conversation so I wish there was more of that and I understand Aaron you mentioned to us already we're just

[250:00] deciding whether we want 50 50 but ultimately there is still part of the conversation is what are we giving off right for that 50 50. and then I do agree with Rachel as well I believe I have seen ballot measures where we have if you vote for this would you like to you know fund the Arts at 50 I have seen that before I remember I've seen that on my ballot now whether the Arts Community would support that that's another thing we would have to go back to them to present to go back on I guess the negotiation that you've been having Matt but I think ultimately these are great questions or I think there needs to be more conversation I do support the arts and by the way ultimately I will support the ballot measure I will support the compromise because part of it is I support the Arts I know they've been struggling a lot in the community but I do believe that Nicole has a point and

[251:02] Rachel's perspective actually might be a good way of moving forward but ultimately the Arts Community who's worked really hard may not support that because it might be an awful or nothing for them um if you know people get to decide whether it's at 50 or 25 or 10 when they already have 4 000 people actually their the work that the Arts Community has done they've done more work than we have done we have a um a simple size of 400. they have a four a simple size of four thousand so I do believe they will win so it's either we will support what they do and and how do I put it do this compromise well we still get to keep half or we do what Nicole said we do and we might potentially lose because 4000 is as we all know I'm not a mathematic mathematician but for four thousand it's

[252:01] much bigger than 400. thank you I would like to colloquy before Matt because I haven't said anything I want to colloquy right after Juni can I do that go ahead Matt smoking a few times thank you um I'm gonna I agree with Judy I I can't blame the art people they have been shortchanged they got hit hard by the pandemic most musicians didn't even perform or get paid for more than a year two years at least and a lot of these people had no livelihood so and we all I mean I know from when I was little that whenever programs got cut it was always music and art so but most importantly is what Genie said what I agree with is I'm a compromiser I like to collaborate but I'm also definitely not a risk taker I don't like taking chances I never gamble at casinos I mean I don't I really do not like Taking Chances so I feel like we could

[253:03] easily lose I agree with her for the best interest of the city I think is to have one ballot measure and not take a chance and collaborate I really feel strongly about this as a super practical person that I am Matt do you have something quick yeah just it just really responds to Nicole's question point about racial Equity tool and going through our process we will be starting the cultural Master planning process in 2024 this money from this ballot measure won't be triggering our budget until the 2025 budget so we we will have a very robust process that sets up exactly what you're looking for Nicole with regards to how to spend this money so that that the timing of that is cooked in intrinsically to the cultural Master planning process and when this money would be hitting so so I think a lot of those those concerns would be folded in very appropriately um to to the plans and the monies that would be distributed should that pass

[254:05] and just from a moderation standpoint what I'm going to move us towards here before long is uh whether we would give a notifies to prepare prepare a 50 50 alternative for next week's first readings of ballot measures so it's it's a it's a question of whether we prepare an alternative the discussions will not end there so just keep that in mind I'd like to give people who haven't had a chance to talk yet a chance to go and then maybe we'll catch up with others and um getting a reminder of a time check um that it is 1005 um so we don't have to make a motion to continue yet but um just keep that in mind it's getting getting late here uh Lauren you haven't had anything spoken yet so thank you um I have a somewhat silly question but remind me what is it that if the city

[255:00] puts something on the ballot how much support can we give that thing how much education or communication can we provide um foreign what are our restrictions there I believe the answer is that Council can pass a measure of support um and other than that the city cannot do anything to support a ballot measure and can a city Stafford correct me if I'm right or wrong there you're correct however council members individually can take positions as well and do that publicly okay thank you um I've struggled with this one a lot I you know personally would love to double the funding for the Arts um but also after reading that polling I'm and again that was just sampling likely

[256:00] voters not the whole community so it's hard to know what the community as a whole wants but it didn't seem like likely voters would choose that area for extra funding um so I'm I'm leaning towards the opinion of I would like to see you know I know that if voters approved the entire funding for the Arts that that would be painful on our budgeting but in some ways that's their decision to make and I think that you know we've heard over and over again the need to reduce the number of funds that are directly allocated and while that's not maybe my personal favorite thing to do like I would like to allocate the funds towards all the

[257:00] things that I like um you know we don't know there are there are things coming up in this next election like um you know the Statewide ballot initiative that would limit um uh property tax collection and could you know that or a recession or other ballot measures could cause shortfalls for the city and it is good for us to have flexibility in the long term I think where I'm landing is that well but there was some discussion of maybe having multiple options on the ballot I guess I would be open to staff drafting it this week a 50 option as we think about what ultimately we want to put on the ballot okay thanks Lauren and if y'all don't mind I'm going to call myself as the person who hasn't opened yet and then we'll do some final comments and then go

[258:02] towards the check on the on the direction from Council um so just uh the the reason why we're here having this discussion is because of the direct democracy Provisions that are written into our city Charter right that citizens have the ability to pull a petition and gather signatures and put it on the ballot and that's why we're on this kind of accelerated time frame is because we had dedicated citizens get 4 000 signatures in support of dedicating the entire tax charts right so that's you know we're being brought to the table by that direct Act of direct democracy and um I am impressed by their efforts they've done really hard work and it shows the amount of interest there is in stronger funding in our community but I do worry about that one passing on its own because it would um entail significant Cuts in our current programming whereas the 50 50 option would not because of our our library situation that we're in this

[259:00] year so um the Arts are incredibly important to our community I think we all agree on that I mean they're the the Art and Soul of our community if I might even say so and they nourish the soul of our community and the way that we have targeted our criteria recently they go very heavily towards disenfranchised populations the the funding that we do that we deliver so um I think there if if the the 50 50 measure passes we have a lot of opportunities to uh you know look at exactly how we channel that um but I I think that we would get a lot of benefits for our Arts Community by that and it would be done in a way that our budget could handle and if we put the two competing ballot measures on on the one hand that it creates friction and divisiveness in the community and I think the outcome uh where the 100 Arts passes would be a significant financial hardship and result in the loss of essential services so I I think the 50 50 is a good way to go and that's why I'll be supporting it uh putting that as as moving that forward tonight

[260:00] so now all of this is spoken so if we got a few more hands raised if maybe people can be quick in their follow-up comments and then we can wrap up um I've I've got Nicholas Nicole Rachel Mark Matt yeah yeah I feel like Rachel and Mark had kind of put theirs up I just wanted to kind of call Equator the colloquies on my comments a while ago but Rachel and Mark you're welcome to go first um so I don't know if I'm gonna be brief Aaron but um I I will say I um I'm confused by the you know we got a lot of emails saying do 50 50 and promise 1.8 million so you know mayor Brockett had said earlier like it's just about 50 50 tonight and I don't I didn't read those emails it was like the compromise is 50 50. like I saw a lot of emails saying this is only good if you're also dedicating that 1.8 so I might need a little clarification from the people who were negotiating on whether if we say 50 50 and make it crystal clear that we're not saying 1.8 million is Promised is there even still

[261:00] you know sort of a a whatever kind of deal that was it wasn't voted on by the majority of council so put that out there I don't I don't know I feel like I'm on um sort of quicksand with with whether we even have a deal um but I think we also owe it to the to the people that are asking for this deal to be very clear whether or not we are committing extra money in addition to the 50 50 because I saw a lot of emails suggesting that that was part of this deal and so for me that that part's a no and I just think that that that probably should be really firmed up by people so that the kind of the other side knows what we are talking about here um I you know there's been some discussion about like we'd be deciding you know I want to be clear this is all either way it's going to the voters so we're not deciding anything we're just deciding what to put on the ballot as other people have said so um it's either going to be a hundred percent or 50 percent or I think I've heard a little bit of support for

[262:00] possibly a variety of percents on the ballot and I know that that is not the deal that was struck but um it is intriguing to me I'm I'm confident that when we put Excel on there was a question like a that was do you want to settle and B if you want to settle do you want to continue attacks or let this tax expire or something like that so I do believe we can do something where it's you know do you want to extend this if so do you want to you know do you want to extend at 100 do you want to extend it 75 however I would I'd be curious if legal could give us the options of you know zero twenty five fifty seventy five hundred that gets to Nicole's like let the voters decide and I think Lauren wanted the same thing um so uh you know and and then we can we can know like I don't really trust polls that much anymore locally or nationally so I'm not putting a whole lot of stock in that no offense to the lovely gentleman who gave us that information but um you know I don't I don't really

[263:01] know what the voters want so if and I and I don't want to go back from our side on a compromise because I'm annoyed with the other side for doing that so um but I think it's an intriguing option and I would be curious if we do to push forward with asking legal to bring us something or whatever Department to bring us something next week if we could find out if we can have a sort of scaffold of options to present to voters thanks foreign if I kind of come back I think like what I what I heard from the the organizers of the Arts measure is that they would like more general fund money but they understand that there is no commitment that this Council can make to that so like for example I'm open to potential general fund money in some future year but I can't commit to it and um and neither can any of us so I think that is understood not not in my inbox it's not but I appreciate that clarification thanks Rachel mark yeah um I'm uncomfortable making

[264:03] arrangements like this under duress um especially when it violates our uh goal of not having more dedicated funds and is not consistent with our general uh you know budgeting processes um I'm also not as um concerned that we that we might not Prevail um at the election I I think the the uh priorities of the community are pretty clear and I think that the priorities we set forth in our language are going to be much more appealing than the very very narrow priorities and in theirs um but having said that I I you know I think it's our job to try to compromise where we can um and avoid conflict where we can but um I would like the same Clarity they would like with respect to the 1.8 million in

[265:03] general funds because for me I'm prepared to double their budget with 3.8 at 50 of the um uh of the tax but I want to know um or at least get a sense from this Council whether or not they're prepared to zero out the rest of the general fund money so that this is a doubling of their budget not a tripling of their budget um because I think that is simply an overreach and it's it's frankly unprecedented in terms of what we provide for other departments um we give them 1.8 today and if we give them another 1.8 the the city will not fall um uh you know or go bankrupt but I I'm very concerned that going past that and giving them

[266:00] no or even allowing for the possibility that it's going to be dedicated Forever at 3.8 million and on top of that there's an expectation and there's certainly their expectation that we're going to throw in another 1.8 on top of that and and that for me is is simply A Bridge Too Far um what I just say there is that they they can have no expectation of 1.8 and but I'm afraid you also can't have an expectation of zero because it's up to the decision of Council next year to vote on in the budget like the the Council next year could go in any of many many different directions on this and many other things well um I I I you know I'm in such substantial agreement with Nicole I I have to think that the end times are here because we we don't always get to uh agree so fully on any issue um but we do on this and uh I I think she's correct in her analysis and

[267:02] um uh I'm very supportive of what you said very good uh Nicole oh thanks Mark that was an excellent excellent laugh and man if you look at the front pages of the the newspaper certainly um the interns may be uh upon us um I just want to you know be really clear and kind of Center Us in where we are I don't think anybody on this council is lacking an appreciation for the Arts um I think we would all love to see this be a place that that has all the funding that they need um and then some we also have many other places that are in need of more funding we've got a lot of Human Services kind of equity centered needs in our community Rising rates of evictions more need for housing assistance basic needs assistance all that kind of stuff

[268:00] um I really would love to move forward with this measure that 3 500 people signed as well as with our original measure if the signatures represent the community's desires better than the poll does then we'll be following the community's desires if we quadruple the Arts funding from what it is now Arts are healing too they provide a critical function in our community and if that's where the community lands then we'll make it work we'll figure it out if that's what you know feels important I think there's a lot of ways that you know Arts funding could be used to support some basic needs housing assistance specifically for artists things like that there are ways that we can figure out how to do this but I really would like to let the voters decide so that we don't have to go against our financial strategy that we put in place of trying to not do dedicated funds and our sustainability equity and resilience framework for how we're doing budgeting now and into the

[269:01] future thanks Nicole okay Matt you got a last thing and then maybe we can wrap up here I think so I I in some of my summaries I hadn't actually given my my actual personal perspective on this so um sorry I tried to stay agnostic and present the facts as they were and let my Council colleagues speak to their opinions and save mine here um so I appreciate the opportunity um for one I I really appreciate the com this conversation I mean this is fantastic and in a in a perfect world Nicole you're 100 right we would have had weeks if not months to talk about this just to chew on it to to run it through all of our our various instruments and tools to get make sure that we know exactly who and how our community will be impacted positively and negative by this work and and I think you're spot on for for bringing that up um but the situation was been a much more short-timed one it came over our

[270:02] recess and we're backstopped against statutory requirements to get this show on the road with regards to our ballot measures so there's a lot of those things that put us in a position to be making a a somewhat quick decision albeit still an informed one because we have two choices and this is where I feel very committed that the compromise is a better way to make sure that one in the hand is better than two in the bush and yet we all lose a little but we all gain something uh you know that poll only talked about the bout measure the city put on it didn't mention or put on a ballot measure that strictly said it would support the Arts and we don't know if that poll had 70 percent or 80 support we are going in blind assuming that 70 is the winning number and it may not be and so I think we have to be careful on on just making those assumptions and I think a compromise here is an incredibly good way to make sure that we move forward with the Arts community in a collaborative way because it could go in a bunch of

[271:01] different ways that they don't win we go general fund they stay low on their funding and we have an Arts Community that's not feeling their needs are being met by this community and we also have the other side which is they get the whole thing and we're having to cut big stuff I mean Nicole do you want to lose the day Center Bob do you want to lose you know funding for police like these are things that I don't think we want to give up and so this compromise allows us to still have an opportunity to provide some support for the Arts give them something that gives them Solid Ground to stand on during hard Economic Times They don't have to look over their shoulder that their knees are going to be wiped out it also gives us a chance to preserve some of our Financial Freedom so I think this is a great compromise for us to really look forward put some of this behind us and really think about how we can build a strong Community for the Arts and the economic Vitality that that brings and as Nicole point out the healing that that brings so I support this compromise I think it's a great place for us to start and it's an opportunity for us to to move forward as a whole community because I think if we do this compromise it's

[272:01] going to get 85 percent uh of the vote and that's going to be a great place to land um certainly as we enter a political climate that continues to be a little bit challenging so I support this for those reasons and and I really hope um that we can get to a place where this gets on the ballot and we get the language right um and we move forward in November thanks man all right I'm going to move this towards a direction to to City staff to the question on the table is whether we want to direct City staff to provide an alternate ballot measure that's dedicated 50 to our spending and 50 to general fund funding pure and civil that's the question and so the question is whether we have a not of five but nods are too subtle for Zoom so I'm going to ask for a show of hands of who's interested in moving that giving direction move that forward so I got seven all right thanks everyone for a thorough discussion uh there are a lot of really great points made and I appreciate

[273:01] everyone's passion for our budget and all the services that our city needs to to provide and and weigh against one another so uh Nuria is that sufficient for for the next steps I think we hear you and we will take that thank you I have a question though mayor Brockett um we're not committing ourselves to vote for it right just by asking for this so I would still be interested to know from staff if we have the option of a couple options on the ballot and I would be interested in knowing from those of you who were you know negotiators or whatever the right legal term is for whatever happened to know is is 50 50 with nothing else like a real flat X you know the the agreement Mark Wallach can live with is is that what's on the table and that can we get some Crystal Clear um uh affirmation that that's true so wondering if I might have support for uh I hope that the second part will just be done and brought back but for the first

[274:02] that we would be directing staff wondering if there are four other people who would be interested in that information sorry which information specifically could we have a ballot measure that has alternative options to get into great I would like that next week then too please if that's doable and and then maybe a second question if if I get that next week is it timely for for us to you know consider that when we vote on what ballot measure goes on so I guess I just looked at nurio Teresa can you get us an answer to the to Rachel's question not tonight but next week I felt confident that I can have an answer to the question um what we will not be able to do is bring forward bring forward a an option for you all

[275:00] that would include sort of those cascading questions that's um I'm afraid that's just too tight to turn around and does that mean that we couldn't get it on if we don't do it next week is it dead in the water or we still have time for it there's still time okay thanks Nicole Mangini yeah I was just wondering um since we've got maybe a week or so until it comes back um I was just wondering if any of the um anybody's staff maybe has the right connections here could reach out to some of the um Spanish-speaking either centered or LED Arts organizations the bypoc centered or LED Arts organizations and just try to get some feedback from them because um and also just some of the if there are any kind of Arts organizations that are led by lower income folks because these are the people who are going to kind of see the biggest trade-offs in

[276:00] this and I it just it feels like really critical information to me that we have even some basic understanding um just kind of a quick check in with folks who are in some of these communities that are likely if if we do have to cut things they may be in those communities that are are getting um the bulk of the cuts so is there any space I mean since there's been you know a lot of kind of negotiating and things going on can we just have a little bit of conversation with some of the bypoc centered cultural organizations you know by pocket cultural organizations other groups to get some different perspective on trade-offs uh councilmember just a point of clarity perhaps and I'm just trying to make sure and without permitting I can certainly talk to staff and see what we can do to reach out if that's needed but I just want to be clear on whether the ask is how do you feel about

[277:02] uh the competing development measures or is it what trade-offs what do you think um what are your concerns about the trade-offs so I'm just trying to make sure that if we're going to ask them thank you that we know what you'd like us to ask yeah I know I appreciate that I just I I would be curious to have perspective on these different um ballot measures because it sounds like next week we'll get a few coming back um to us what are what are thoughts there you know what what's the what feedback are we getting hey California says is there any way we would get a statistically valid like sampling in a week because I don't I don't want to have us do something that is just like three people's opinions that doesn't I'd be leery of that if we can't do it well I'm not sure I want to do it because that might mislead us well we definitely would not be able to get a statistically significant sampling

[278:00] um and again I'd have to talk to staff about it and what it would be a short anecdotal qualitative not quantitative um and we would be very upfront to share with you all who we were able to hear from and not so we'd know but again I'd have to go back and talk to staff and see what we could so it may be a data point but it may not be a statistically valid data points right it's it's and is this more than three hours hours of work that would need an out of five um it is likely more than three hours of work I've just estimate your bracket for that um so I guess what I might um ask Nicolas because I think that kind of Outreach would be really valuable that and we're not making final decisions next week you know so that the ballot measures aren't being finalized for a while so I I'm I'm you know I'm I

[279:01] would be very interested in getting some opinions from exactly the organizations that you're talking about I would just would want it to be on a on a longer time frame so there's more time to do some a little bit of Outreach and not to overtax staff as well Nicole how would you feel about it yeah so no I think what I would love to have is before we sort of made final decisions on what's going on to the ballot I would really value having some of that feedback um for maybe before final decisions on ballot measures are made to do the Outreach that you described yep yes yes I would okay so then I'll ask uh Council Julie to give a not a five in the next few weeks to do the Outreach that Nicole has described for a few hours of Staff time you can raise your hand if you interested in that I'm getting five six so yeah not a six or seven

[280:04] and sort of um figure out what the appropriate approach is to follow that direction and maybe also with engagement because it just this feels a little loosey-goosey to me like only to be engaging one one uh group for input on this so I'm that's why I didn't vote for it but um maybe just talk to Sarah Huntley about how we we can best do that in our community connectors well yeah excellent okay I got Junior and Matt but let's see if we can wrap up guys it's 10 30. thanks I have a quick question it goes back to uh the comment about the different levels on the ballot measure so that would be a question for Teresa and then maybe Matt can follow up on that if we alter our ballot measure to include aspect of another group's valid measure do we have to have their agreement because ultimately

[281:02] we are threatened and to uh I I think that would be unfair if somehow we incorporate their ballot measures into ours and they don't agree with it if that makes sense so I wanted to know more whether that's legally something that we can do thank you for asking that Junior that was going to be my question in point so I'll say having spoken with them they have until we set title which is roughly around the first week of September to withdraw their petition and if we put something on they don't like they have no reason to withdraw their petition and then we've just basically negotiated against ourselves so it it's really important that whatever we do if we are really trying to compromise we do something that they also endorse and thus give them motivation to withdraw their petition I will say in a sense of timing from good faith it would be good faith that it upon after second reading and we've had a public hearing that would be the

[282:00] appropriate time for them to withdraw their petition because that would mean in good faith we've gotten it to the finish line and that they are still confident in it and thus would withdraw so having a little extra timing on doing some of this Outreach might start to get us up against a real sticky 11th Hour deadline so that there are some concerns with how much time that takes but you're ultimately right Juni we would definitely want to have the endorsement of this petition committee to actually put a compromise on the ballot so um this sort of staggered tiered uh ballot may be dead on arrival for them and it's probably worth us checking on that but but let's cross that bridge but you're 100 correct in your assessment that they should have some say in this for sure with regards to their bowel measure I heard juny's question different though if I'm sorry sorry mayor but I thought she was asking like can you do that legally like can you have a competing ballot measure that is like partially similar to or overlapping with I think the answer is yes but I would turn to Teresa on because I think I think I've seen the city do that in the past if you could weigh in if you don't mind

[283:02] I'm happy too absolutely if it's council's pleasure council could incorporate the exact same language that is in an initiative there's also a mechanism by which Council can um adopt an initiative by ordinance I don't think that I'm hearing Council asking to do that um but it's certainly possible you know also since council member Benjamin um raised this issue we cannot require the committee to remove something from the ballot um they can voluntarily agree to do so but um but but but it isn't there um at their discretion

[284:00] Jenny does that answer your question thank you I think that goes back I just wanted to add I suppose I mean Bob and Matt you've been working on this for a while now you have the muscle to maybe do the Outreach as quickly as possible by understanding if we're coming back next week can we get all this negotiation and good faith as you mentioned with the Arts community and say hey here's what we're thinking would you be open to now this new uh process or new way of putting your ideas on the ballot would you be okay with it and then hopefully we'll have both both of these um how do I put it we have we have your feedback and then we have what Rachel asked so I think we would need both we don't want to make that I wouldn't want to make that decision without knowing that the Arts Community fully supported because as of today I do support the 50 so if I support 50 and

[285:03] then you come up you come with something brand new to me and I know the Arts Community doesn't support it I'm not sure I can support this new initiative next week when it comes without the feedback from the Arts Community thank you Fair yeah I'm happy to I think I can't speak for Bob or Aaron but I think we would happy to take that back and and see where that goes but uh we landed at 50 for very strong reasons for both of our sides so um you know we'll uh we're happy to have that conversation just to be clear we're not talking to the art community the community would be thousands of people and we are talking to three people whose names are on the on the petition we have the legal authority to withdraw the petition if they choose to those are the only people we're talking to we've gotten dozens of emails we haven't talked to any of those people we have no idea what um the 4 000 people who sign the petition want you have no idea what the artist Community wants all we know is the people who have the authority with all the petition have

[286:01] said that they would settle at 50 50. thanks for the clarification all right I would love to wrap this item up so if seeing no other hands raised uh let's go ahead and end this one thanks everybody for a robust discussion on the the future of tax funding and art spending our community and we get one more quick item before before we can rest hey Lisa we have a one more matter yes sir we have our last item under matters for tonight's agenda and that is the discussion regarding extending the midterm recruitment for the boards and commissions that did not receive any applications and Alicia are you going to speak to this one yes sir I'm going to speak to it and I'm also joined tonight by my elections administrator John Morse and we have just a quick three slide update that we

[287:00] want to provide to you tonight to give you some clarity on where we are with the midterm recruitment process um CAC requested this item be scheduled tonight and we just want to make sure council is aware of where we are in that process before your discussion and so at this point I'm going to go ahead and turn it over to John to give you that quick overview hey good evening city council John Moore selections administrator here uh here to bring you up to speed on how our recruitment's going um if you're going to do the next slide please Emily uh so a quick timeline we opened up our applications May 29th uh they went through July 2nd um after that we took time to process our applications uh there was a good chunk for a few boards and commissions that were uneligible due to property owner requirements

[288:01] um and on Tuesday and Wednesday of this week uh council members folkert and Weiner accompanied me to conduct all our interviews they are completed and then as of right now uh on August 3rd city council set to make their nominations and appointments next slide please uh so here's a breakdown of our applications we had have 12 vacancies right now and we received 12 applications for various boards um one thing to note here we added a a column on how boards fared in our original recruitment there wasn't too much change in a few of them such as bla the BJ ads and then a few others so that's kind of our breakdown there um and then we have two options for Council on the next slide please

[289:00] okay one moment I'm gonna move my faces here so I can read the question okay so we have two options for Council uh one does council wish to extend the mid-year recruitment period for those boards or commissions that did not receive any applications or still have vacancies uh if so for what time period or uh the second option is does council wish to continue recruitment during the 2024 annual recruitment with preparations beginning in September 2023. so with that I'll open the floor to discussion and any questions from Council thanks John uh we got a couple hands up uh already Nicole and Rachel and then Tara so a quick question then I think I can get my response um the the board and commission applications that receive zero applicants this time they also received zero applicants last time I'm remembering that correctly

[290:01] okay zero eligible okay yep yeah yeah I think my my preference then would be for um two unless we are potentially risking some of the board work um by not continuing to try to fill them um but it seems like twice in a row let's just wait till next time maybe we can frame that in the form of a question would any board uh lack the ability to do their work um if we didn't recruit somebody new uh my knowledge mayor I have not heard anything about any boards or commissions not meeting Quorum I know if you are on the edge but I have not heard of any not uh yet okay Rachel I think if I when I was looking at that chart it said we have 12 applicants and and total and 12 open board positions in total so just want to Circle back to a question I asked last time which is how do we get to a point where we can say hey we don't have a spot for you here but would you like to serve on this board these are people we know want to

[291:00] give back to the city and may have multiple interest areas and may have only thought to apply for open space or whatever like I'd love to give everybody if we got 12 and 12 why wouldn't we make that work can we make that work will be qualified for you know certain addresses or you know if they don't live in the right District but for the rest if I may go ahead and speak to that John if that's okay and if you have anything to add please do I know at this point council member friend I'll applicate all applicants have the ability to apply for multiple boards we've seen that um throughout the last you know all the recruitment periods I think what we probably need to wait and do is to for to see what the consultant is going to do when they do that overview and I know we are in the process of scheduling that and bringing somebody on board for that and that might help the situation but right now with the with the way that the recruitment process is set up the only

[292:01] thing that we can do is probably over emphasize the fact that you have the ability to apply for multiple boards if need be because each board has different questions so we can't just say you know this applicant apply for this board but you want to go ahead and fill out another application to fill for this board after we close the recruitment we could do that but I think that would be kind of counterproductive but they do have the current ability to apply for multiple boards if they wanted to thanks hope that answers the question well it I I it does and I know that people could do that but they're not and so I guess what I'm saying is does anything stop us from going back and saying hey uh thanks for applying twice in some of your cases like we you know we picked some meals for that board but we'd love to have you on this one because if we can do that I would say it's been such a lagging uh recruitment season that I I would support us trying to to plug interested people into opportunities to volunteer and advise us and I think that what my help I'm sorry

[293:01] and and I understand that we're going to get you know Consultants help soon but for now when we've we've been in a Lurch for quite a while with some of these boards could that be a a fix I think what we would probably have to uh do is get direction on from Council to actually figure out how that process would work because there is the interview process for that particular board and those particular questions so we probably have to kind of get in some sort of outline of how you would feel that um you know that process should work because right now the first step in the first process consists of filling out the applications going through the interview for that specific board answering those specific questions so we would need to know some direction from you how you would want that process to work or get that direction from the subcommittee thanks there this is not what I was going to say but interestingly I did ask one person what we have so many people that are trying out for the same board as you why can't

[294:00] you try after dick one they said nope I only want to be on that one so it is pretty complicated I think to do what you're asking even though I wish that it would work easily but I will say that I'm when are we expecting that consultant because we have the two Boulder Junction boards that always have pretty much nobody and then for some reason the liquor board can't seem to get people I don't know if it's the time that they have it or what is happening that's what I would want to be on but um so my first question is Alicia when is this consultant coming on I don't know I think Nuria can give us more definitive answers on that because that's being handled by our Deputy city manager Christmas joke it is [Music] a truck and then ready to roll so that should be soon so soon um so I'm gonna say number two as well because I don't see how our outcomes

[295:01] would be different by just extending it to the at least uh the boards that are I guess least popular should I say I'm not undermining them they're great boards but so I I think too but Rachel I hear what you're saying and it is really a good idea although way more complicated than it seems okay thanks for that I got two people saying option number two let's go ahead and do a stronghold uh how many people agree with waiting until next year for their recruitment uh for these boards just give yourself a hands up here on that I got a one two three four five six looks like so it looks like we got Council direction to just go ahead and weigh in seven Council directional weight um for next year on that and hopefully we'll have more input from the consultant as well and maybe decide to go in a different direction very good um well that brings us to the end of our last agenda item Elisha and John thank

[296:00] you so much at least you uh for sticking us out sticking it out with us and bringing the clothes the meeting too close with this it's getting pretty late I'm starting to not talk well all right uh any final thoughts I've seen none uh I just have one one quick piece at the very end um just going back to the Arts thing do we want to um do we want to authorize uh asking the city attorney's office to reach out to the petitioners of the Arts ballot measure with regards to drafting language because if this is a combo it makes sense that there's some combination input so I just want to throw that out there I just want to make sure that if that is a need or a will that that's available and because that's usually common courtesy that we do that with a combining of petition so just I want to make sure we're on the up and up because we have a week to get it done I hate to break that back open again but Theresa can we at least check the language that you all come up with at

[297:01] some point with the petitioners so I have a point regarding timing um the packet is supposed to already have gone out for next week they're holding it for this um if you want to consider this next week we do not have time to to draft something together but then if I I my personal preference would be then let's get it on to First reading if they have comments we can make that fix at second and then pass it on third I don't know if anyone cares about that but and then then we have at least a process going forward but I appreciate the the clarity all right thanks all right and that brings us to a close all right thanks guys it took a little while to get through all the issues but I appreciate the the good discussion uh have a good night and I'll gavel is closed at 10 49 pm [Music]

[298:12] thank you