December 14, 2021 — City Council Regular Meeting

Transcript

Captions from City of Boulder YouTube recording.

[0:00] just deep in study have you seen how 00 no no I have I I was responsible for one of them but at least you uh ended it with how did you end it normally regards with with gratitude gratitude your came in at 33 yours came in at 335 I'm not counting that in my [Music]

[5:27] Emily do we have channela up and running channel8 is good to go all right well then why don't we get this going let me know when I can proceed please all right recording has begun great okay well good evening everyone and welcome to the December 14th meeting of the boulder city council we'll start

[6:01] with a couple of quick announcements before we get into the main part of the meeting first one is about covid-19 vaccinations uh if you have not got yet gotten your vaccines or looking for a booster um you can find more information on doing so um at the URL shown on your screen which is www.bouldercounty.org families [Music] disease-9 vaccines please go ahead and do that if you have not already ready and the next announcement is about Healthcare assistance so Boulder County Housing and Human Services are working to encourage Boulder County residents to sign up for health insurance during open enrollment which ends January 15th coverage is Affordable there are big discounts this year preventative care is free there are many plans to choose from and financial assistance may be available so don't delay for more information and free confidential assistance visit older County Health coverage.

[7:01] org there we go so those are our two announcements so let's move on into roll call if we could Alicia please all right thank you sir and good evening everyone council member Benjamin present mayor Brockett pres council member folr present mayor protim friend here council member Joseph present Speer present wallik present Wier here and council member Yates will be late so mayor we have our quum great thanks so much Alicia so if we could start uh by amending the agenda uh and so we need to make two changes

[8:01] tonight one is to add item 1A which is a declaration recognizing National homeless persons Memorial Day to be read by mayor protm friend and the other is to remove item 2B which was resolution 1301 authorizing the purchase of 2691 30th Street as I understand that item needs a little more time before it comes back to us uh could I have a motion to that effect please don't moved second second we have a in a second does anyone object to the motion seeing no one then we will call that agenda amended and now I believe we will then move straight into item 1A the Declaration is that right Alicia that is correct sir okay mayor perm friend if you could take us into that please okay thank you mayor bracket um yeah it is my honor to read a um somber declaration tonight um so December 21st 2021 is

[9:03] National homeless persons Memorial Day the winter poses extreme hardship for inadequately housed low income income men women and children in Boulder the spirit of the holiday season of giving provides an opportunity for affirmation and renewal regarding the commitment to end homelessness December 21st has been designated national homeless persons Memorial Day by the National Coalition for the homeless and by the national healthc care for the homeless Council and it is so recognized by cities Nationwide in this s in this season of generosity and sharing residents of Boulder are encouraged to commit themselves to promoting compassion and concern for all brothers and sisters especially those who are poor and homeless in Remembering those who have died on the streets the cause of ending homelessness is kept urgent at as is the city's commitment to preventing such

[10:01] deaths in the future the city council of the city of Boulder Colorado declares December 21st 2021 as National homeless persons Memorial Day that is the end of our declaration um and I I think we may have two community members um organization Representatives here to receive the Declaration um Taylor can you confirm that I think maybe uh Jen Lovich with feet forward and or Scott Medina with bridg house may be here yes both are here welcome great so I would invite both to um say a few words if you're interested well thank you so much Rachel and everybody um it's nice to have this owledge tonight this actually is one week from the time that the memorial will actually be happening so so uh next

[11:00] 00 to 5:00 p.m. at the Bandshell in Central Park Canyon and Broadways where we will hold the memorial and it's always a a very moving event a very important event for us to recognize people who've passed away this past year while experiencing homelessness and from the impact of homelessness on their lives so we highly encourage uh the community to come out in person uh to be there at the bans next Tuesday at 4M it means a lot to have the whole Community there come on printer and there's uh Jen I can hear you Jen she's gone Jen do you want to say anything yeah hi hi Jen he Jen we can hear you okay I don't know why my video is not working but that's IR relevant um I'd like to thank the city council members for their Swift response in proc claiming the homeless memorial for this

[12:01] upcoming December 21st more specifically I want to personally thank councelor Benjamin for expressing his concern about impending inclement weather and the need to discuss Emergency Services as a council tonight I do not find honor in accepting this Proclamation given my unique connection to our inhouse community I feel great loss as we remember more lives lost each year the same lives we should be working to save I implore this city council to swiftly create a low barrier emergency overflow and day shelter to provide adequate accessible spaces that will prevent further tragic and avoidable death thank you very much

[13:01] thanks so much for that um Jen and also Scott thank you for being here and um just to reiterate that that Memorial will be 4M on the 21st um downtown at at the Bandshell and I I will be there as well I mentioned another number of my colleagues and for that somber occasion great thank you all so much uh Nicole did you have something you wanted to say yes if it's okay if I just say a couple words here um so Lauren and I T the shelter last Friday morning um this was the night after we had a little bit of snow temperatures I think we're in the 30s maybe that night um out of 140 available beds there were about five beds available um winter officially begins a week from today and I'm still concerned um as council member Matt stated as um we heard a couple of other um General er uh mentioned tonight that our plan to

[14:01] offer hotel vouchers to a few dozen additional people isn't enough to save lives during severe weather this winter so I'm really grateful that we're acknowledging National homeless persons Memorial Day and I just want to note that it seems a little out of place when we haven't allocated additional funds or resources for any overflow Sheltering that would prevent more deaths this winter thank you for that Nicole and Nua is is there an opportunity at all tonight to address the point that Nicole just made and the that Matt raised on hotline an hour or so ago um there certainly could be I know that Kurt Fern hoober is with us and has been giving this thought as as they have every year right as this moves forward and um it depends on whether or not you want to save this um to matters of the city manager or whether you'd like him to um jump in now well Kurt we we didn't um plan on this in advance I I don't know if you're able to do that now um while we're talking

[15:01] about it or um if it would uh if you'd like some more time we could bring it back up later in the meeting uh good evening Council uh Kurt fower director of housing Human Services um I can either address it now or I can address it um later on in the meeting uh either is fine with with me maybe you could proceed now since we're talking about it right now if if you'd be willing sure sure thank you and uh and Matt thanks for your uh your question I saw your email um uh later this afternoon um so this this situation is not um unusual um uh if you remember last um a year ago September we had a somewhat similar situation but it was much earlier in the year in September um when we uh um had a impending snowstorm and they had said

[16:01] some some ominous name for it I can't remember what it was but um it was before our um severe weather shelter was planned to open which uh over the last many years has opened on the 1 of October um as a result of that one of the changes um and and there's uh there's often you know storms and things that come in sort of outside of our um of the times that we had previously set up so one of the changes we made this year uh if if you recall is BAS is um instead of weather uh shelter being weather triggered it's opened um every night and um so we wouldn't have that that challenge of whether it meets the the the the condition or not of the of the trigger um and um so severe weather shelter is open as Nicole has mentioned

[17:01] um it's uh it's near capacity um I don't think that I I think maybe we've had one one turnaway uh capacity this season I I'll have to check on that um we've um we've we've been averaging um over the last three weeks I think about an average of about 10 or 15 beds um per night I think we have have hit capacity one or two nights um and and um so one of the things I I did just before the meeting uh Matt when I when I saw your email is I is I called um uh the director of the shelter um to ask what capacity they may have um he he basically mentioned to me which he may have mentioned to other council members on your on your visits there um and this is similar to other organizations as well their staff capacity um is is extremely limited right now I ask if

[18:02] they would have capacity to either add more beds this evening um or open up uh further tomorrow um he said that they don't have additional capacity for that um and I think this is a challenge we're having uh CommunityWide um with many service organizations um you may be aware that uh Mental Health Partners has um 80 80 job openings for mental health workers um so our our challenge recently or ever since Co started really is really is to keep um the basic Services um up and up and running um the the typical um way of approaching this um uh extreme weather is um um and we and I looked at an email that we we got this afternoon from Mike chard of the um office of disaster

[19:03] management um the uh the city of Boulder um itself hasn't um opened shelters before um however how that occurs is if a uh a disaster is proclaimed um by the city or the county and in that CA in those situations um uh the the Red Cross actually stands that up so that's ort of the mechanism that we use um in more emergency situations um we we have looked at um when we gave the update to council um you as to look ask us to look at additional beds uh Hotel Beds um what we're looking at is adding um uh five in January and then the springtime is when we typically you know get the the worst of the weather and the snow so adding uh five uh I think it's in March if I'm

[20:02] correct um so that's what we've been able to um look at since the last council meeting um thanks for that update Kurt Matt you have something yeah I mean I I my my question is I think really just generally centered with um one usually those emergencies are declared um reaction IL to a disaster that has already thus occurred um and is less so a preventative measure so I'm not sure that helps us when in this instance you know in 12 hours we're likely to start facing what is an F1 tornado or a category 2 hurricane worth of winds just for context um and so you know I I what are we doing to make sure those on the streets know that even in Wind events that they can seek the shelter but more importantly I mean I feel a little helpless that we don't seem to be like hey get we got to get you out of here I

[21:01] mean this is a life-threatening thing limbs of trees you name it debris I mean this is a very hazardous environment to have winds of these speeds whipping around um I mean they will knock most things off their feet um and so I'm just trying to figure out like what what is our mechanism to to Really create a capacity to to get people into a safe environment I mean if it's just in a gymnasium so they're out from you know the ballistics of things flying around I I I'm trying to understand how we can facilitate that in what is a very short-lived event like this that's that that's coming and so that's what I'm trying to trying to understand but also see where we we can do without it being after the fact when when the damage is done thanks for that Matt Nicole right um I believe we've received some emails um from some folks in the community service providers who have proposed some

[22:00] options for overflow Sheltering um and I am just curious about what what we could do or what would be needed from Council um in order to get that I also just want to be very sensitive to the fact that I know people are here for public comment and I don't want to keep everybody much much longer right this is a a separate feels like a separate conversation um and I just the the urgency of um this issue when we've got a big storm Windstorm coming when we've got winter starting next week um is just really pressing on me too yeah I think those those are important points and I guess that you know during the day we we do have places for folks to go and I just maybe this is something that a message that we can leave with is that if this event it does turn into the this high end of the you know 100 m hour winds tomorrow in a sustained way like is there is there any alternative that we can um fine for tomorrow night I guess is the question

[23:01] and I I'm hearing you that there's very limited staff capacity and at the same time if we're in a really life and limb threatening emergency what could we do yeah so let me try to respond to some of those things so um I don't know if the email has gone out yet but there's um before the council meeting we were working on a communication to go to the various service providers um that touch uh individuals experiencing homelessness um to give the type of warning um uh that you were just describing Aon so thank you for that um uh Nicole I'm I'm I haven't received any communication from anyone about a temporary shelter or a standup shelter okay thanks I'll I'll find an email and forward it sorry choking on some water Kurt will watch for that that email and thank thank you for the those responses for the concerns folks have

[24:01] raised uh to to Nicole's point one would be sensitive to our our agenda and the folks waiting to speak um if it's all right with Council we can move to open comment at this point and Ryan I think you have guidelines to talk us through yes thank you um Emily would you please pull up the guidelines and we'll talk through those with everyone here for open comment and public hearing tonight thank you so much for joining here we're grateful uh for your time to share your perspectives and your experience we want to talk through a few guidelines that we have for speaking at Council and please know that the city has engaged with community members to co-create a vision for productive meaningful and inclusive Civic conversations this Vision supports physical and emotional safety for community members staff and Council as well as democracy for people of all all ages identities lived experience and

[25:00] political perspectives next slide please um please know that the following are examples of rules of decorum found in the boulder Revised Code and other guidelines that support this Vision these will be upheld during this meeting all remarks and testimony should be limited to matters related to City business no participant shall make threats or use other forms of intimidation against any person person obscenity racial epath and other speech and behavior that disrupts or otherwise impedes the ability to conduct a meeting are prohibited participants are required to use the name they sign up the name that they're commonly known by and only audio testimony will be permitted tonight thank you again for joining and uh May or we can move on to our first Speaker great thanks so much for that Ryan our first and every speaker gets two minutes just to be clear and our

[26:00] first three speakers are Evan rabitz Jill Grano and Lindsay Yokum Evan you're up hi can you hear me yes we can evening the city spends a lot of money on public relations we could save a lot of money and grief if we walked our talk here are two ways it's nice that we call City Hall the Penfield tape building um is is the presentation on screen for you no we're not getting presentation so I even had a private conversation with someone at the clerk's office yes Evan sorry Evan I'm pulling it up right now for you okay over yes we'll restart your time once the presentation is up it's up not quite I'll tell you as soon as it is

[27:09] just can't can't do anything except kill the homeless save a lot of money and grief if we walked our talk here are two ways it's nice that we call City Hall the Penfield Tate building but in this Memorial to him by the North Boulder Rec Center he says shelter is a necessity and we should provide for people who need help yet Boulder is wasting $2.7 million this year to chase the homeless from Camp to Camp when there is no legal place for them to go Denver is now

[28:00] opening its sixth safe camping area since there are many legitimate reasons people can't use shelter we should provide safe camping too why not open the penate building during the wind tomorrow have a cop bear if it makes you feel safer let pent Tate stop spinning in his grve next slide please if it's nice that we recognize we're on Indian land and we changed the name of Settlers Park to the people's crossing the city now owns the Old Fort Chambers where the Sand Creek Massacre killers were trained near 63 and J we should give it back to the Indians it's only 110 acres we have 50,000 Acres of open space and the county has another 100,000 the arapo have expressed an interest in having a place when they

[29:00] come here to visit the home they were cheated at again Denver did something like this decades ago with the tall bull Memorial grounds Evan are you done yes okay thank you for that next we have Jill Grano Lindsay Yokum and Preston Smith okay hi council members um thank you so much for the opportunity to address you this evening and Rachel and all of council thank you for that declaration for National homeless persons Memorial day and just for your empathy for those experiencing homelessness um supporting our community members without housing is an urgent and long-term issue for our community um and we have so much to do in policy action and in our hearts and M so thank you but onto official comments

[30:00] my name is Jill ader Grano I'm the senior director of policy programs for the boulder chamber I know you can't see me but I hope you can tell to me by my lisp Jokes Aside I'm here on behalf of the boulder chamber tonight to ask for an extension to enforcement of the recently passed fur ban as you know ballot measure 301 passed by only 400 604 votes and was certified just a couple weeks ago as reported in the Daily Camera the measure itself didn't make it onto the ballot until mid July just a few months before the vote we know from our retailers that they must purchase inventory many months in advance and while this measure doesn't affect hundreds of our businesses it does affect dozens of them and each one of those that we've talked to are small mom and popop businesses right now enforcement of the ban is set to go into effect on January 1st 2022 only 17 days from now this is the busy season for our businesses they've been through incredible hardship over the last two years and the last thing they need is to face fines or even jail time time for items they purchased many months ago we

[31:00] ask that you intend extend enforcement of the ban by at least nine months in order to give affected businesses the time they need to clear inventory and make new purchases as our friend and partner chip from the downtown Boulder partnership wrote earlier numerous cities that have passed these bans gave a one-year grace period we ask that Boulder City Council considers doing the same or something close to it eventually we'd like Council to clarify the ballot measure and the boulder chamber stands ready to support you in Endeavor but for tonight please simply extend the enforcement and allow our retailers to get through this critical time of recovery without additional pain thanks so much thanks for that jel before we go to our next speaker I'll just note that council member Bob Yates has joined us good to have you here Bob okay our next three speakers are Lindsay Yokum Preston Smith and Tim Thomas and let lindsy Tate I have opened your mic if you confirm that you're

[32:01] signed up as Lindsay yokam yes that is me can you hear me yes yes okay great thanks thank you for letting me comment tonight I am Lindsay co-owner of two Soul Sisters excuse me two Soul Sisters a family-owned store that has been in business for almost 14 years now as a retailer and Boulder I am requesting an extension on measure 301 the fur band um we order our product 6 months in advance typically um in a time that has been particularly tough for retailers the past year and a half it's especially challenging to have this measure inforced with such short notice other cities including LA and San Francisco have given retailers one to three years I believe before enforcing a fur ban this time allows retailers to sell through their inventory and not be stuck with unsellable product therefore taking a large monetary hit also it seems Prim mature to enforce this measure since the

[33:00] language has been until the language has been solidified the details of this measure need to be clarified prior to enforcement so I am asking for at least six months extension on this measure please that's all I've got thank you so much thanks for that Lindsay um I've been informed that Preston Smith is not present so we will move on to Tim Thomas then Jake Brady and lyia Hall and we come back and Preston pece so Tim you're up Tim your mic is open you'll just need that again no commitment was made in the housing area no commitments were made and for this reason we will have to move right on with our program our Action Program to dramatize these issues and to bring it squarely before not only the attention but the conscience of the Chicago

[34:02] community that was a quote from Martin Luther King when he was uh dealing with housing issues in Chicago Tim Thomas Boulder Colorado last week I emailed uh Council about Boulder housing Partners decision to evict families from their Tantra Lake apartment 17 days from now BHP is the official Housing Authority of the city of Boulder yet Council has little control over actions that needs to change BHP argues is displacing these families because Tantra will be converting all of its units to affordable housing those who do not qualify will have to leave yet BHP is not starting its qualification process until January BHP says quote if you do not think that you will qualify under the programs guidelines you will need to vacate your apartment unquote BHP is asking families to pre- disqualify themselves think about it why

[35:00] doesn't BHP let these people stay during the qualification process during both a pandemic and a housing crisis the city's own housing division is kicking workingclass families out into the cold during the holidays not because they are delinquent on their rent but because it wants to create more affordable housing how cruy ironic for these family affordable housing already exists they are living in it but BHP is going to take it away from them at the same time BHP is offering one two and three bedroom units to two to new applicants right now tomorrow morning BHP is having its monthly meeting Council can stop this by directing the city manager and City attorney to request the BHP board to extend the lease of these families including those who have been persuaded to give their notice to vacate it is the holiday season and these families are being pushed out into the cold because of the misguided practices and patterns of oper option by BHP further C

[36:00] afraid follow the leave of Longmont and assume the role of the board of the BHP Tim thank you for your comments I think we may have some information on that after all the speakers are done so thanks for that uh we have Jake Brady and then I understand Lydia Hol is not here and then John Woodward Jake hi uh good evening Council um I'd like to begin this evening just to uh dovetail what Tim said um if there are uh individuals and families in the Tantra Lake Community uh who are approaching a deadline don't have a good option for housing coming up um I would hate to see us put anyone on the street at the end of this month especially considering the timing with the holidays if there are options for relocation we should pursue them and I also ask that we collect as much data as possible in these types of situations in the future if we're not already doing so it would be really helpful to know what types of outcomes occur uh when BHP converts or renovates a building uh this conversation leads me to another topic

[37:00] that is relevant today which is Affordable and attainable housing for our residents ands in an Ideal World we need to be discussing situations like this regarding folks who have been forced to rent for a large chunk of their lives a population that includes myself as a 2014 Boulder was experiencing a net loss of 900 affordable housing units per year between 2013 and 2018 over half of rental units affordably priced for households making 25 to 35 shifted to higher income brackets over 90% of renters do not make enough to afford a medium pric market rate home in Boulder and 38% of renters and 10% of owner occupied homes are severely cost burdened in the short term we need to dramatically increase the number of rental units priced under $900 per month and the number of for sale homes priced at less than 400k this includes bolstering our stock of permanently affordable homes that are available to individuals or families making middle income or 80 to 120% Ami which only

[38:00] constitutes 14% of our affordable housing stock at the moment I call on this Council to consider creative options such as reforming the maintain the middle working group addressing occupancy limits revisiting Adu ordinance reviewing requirements that incentivize developers to build large units creating an affordable overlay and creating dis incentives for make Mansion development we know what we need to do with housing we simply need to act I thank all of you for your time this evening and your service to your constituents thanks for that Jake next we have John Woodward Katherine lyberger and RJ boil thank you uh I'm Jason Woodward good evening thank you for having me I apologize my father had a medical emergency this evening he was here to ask for an extension to the enforcement on the fur ban his contention being that other major cities who have enacted civil similar measures have shown the respect to the local business Community by giving upwards of

[39:01] three years to implement it the bill passed by the narrowest of margins and did not constitute a mandate for a strict and immediate action nor is it necessary in the Daily Camera the proponent proponents of this bill put forth the narrative that this bill would not affect local businesses that it was merely symbolic that turned out not to be true as evident by the many businesses uh represented on the call here we're asking that the uh Council uh works as many other large cities uh have done in the past and uh take three years to implement this B thank you very much thank you Jason I hope your father recovers quickly moving on to Katherine lyberger RJ Bole and Jonas leyenberger hello um my name is Katherine luenberger

[40:01] I am the owner and maker of Royal stag hats um I'm a did you guys hear all that okay thanks um I am um commenting on measure 301 tonight um I'm asking that there's an extension um along with an amendment of The Language of the um of the measure because it is very um ambiguous language and it is hard to know what is exempt from the measure and what is okay um so I am asking that um the city council actually will rewrite it to let us know what is truly exempt and what is okay um

[41:00] to be selling because the hats um we are we we just got knowledge that they are exempt because they are not attached to leather but it is actually so hard to actually understand that from reading the measure um that I would I I would ask that we actually look at um writing into the ballad or the measure what is truly Exempted um along with giving um businesses at least a year to to take this into account so that we're not truly um I guess going to be stuck with um items that we've already purchased um because that the buying process happens uh seasons in advance um for when when you sell in the fall you're buying

[42:01] for buying in the spring so thank you Catherine thank you your time was just up but I appreciate that and next we have RJ Bole Jon us luenberger and Christy Lambert hello can you hear me yes good evening Council um my name's RJ Bole and I am here to Echo the comments already provided tonight about the ongoing issue in the Tantra lake neighborhood at this time families or individuals could potentially be on the street in the middle of winter and in the middle of the holiday season assuming that BHP has not offered them a relocation plan or a clear path towards affordable rental qualification I want to express my concern and support those tenants who feel they're not being heard or feeling at risk of losing their homes and request that Council look into these tenants complaints and ensure that the creation of increased affordable housing which we desperately need doesn't come at the cost of housing other neighbors on this note Boulder City Council should deep in their commitment to protecting tenants rights considering the fact that over half of Boulder residents are

[43:00] Runners Denver has recently formed a tenant working group and it's push for a number of policies that protect renters rights and boulders should move beyond the progress made with the newer measure while audable and do the same finally I want to passionately support Jen lich's call for a low barrier day shelter to protect our most vulnerable neighbors during this winter season I appreciate this council's commitment to honor the Souls Lost on the street this year and demand that we get creative and redouble our commitment to prevent future tragedy with services for those in the elements both in the season and ideally in the seasons to come thank you all for your time tonight thank you RJ next we have Jenice luenberger Christy Lambert and ly seagull hello hello can you hear me oh yeah sounds like it um good evening city council um I'm Jonas leberger I'm co-owner of Royal stag hats with my wife wife Katherine and with the risk of just repeating things um I also would like to

[44:01] say a few things regarding uh ballot measure 301 um I would like to see uh the grace period um on the enforcement of this measure um I just think it needs to happen um at least for six to nine months um personally yeah we had um sort of like the uh a verbal confirmation that uh our product is exempt from um the measure but I I do think it is uh because of the ambiguity of the language of the measure I I really think it needs revision and clarification um yeah I would like to know that we're okay um on paper um so um yeah if city council could consider that that would be um amazing um and that's kind of it from me thank you very much for your time thank you

[45:01] Jenice next we have Chris Lambert ly seagull and Patrick Murphy hi can you hear me yes thank you for allowing me to comment tonight my name is Christy Lambert I am the owner of Cedar and hiy merant tail in downtown Boulder Cedar and hide is a small clothing boutique that has been familyowned and operated for eight years now luckily I am not one of the businesses affected by this band but I have sold select fur products in the past so I truly mean lucky all the fur that I sell is sourced exclusively from byproducts of the food industry I hope that you will one day make an exception for such products but for night for tonight I am here to support the local businesses that are affected this year in asking for an extension to to enforcement of the ban businesses purchase products as everyone has said tonight many months in advance for example I purchased all my winter inventory 9 months in advance the

[46:02] fur free ballot initiative did not make it onto the ballot until January 12 of 2021 and it only just passed weeks ago this is long after retailers have already purchased their winter inventory again echoing what everyone has already said this evening we small businesses have been through tremendous hardships these last two years we have lost sales we have lost employees es it's hard to keep employees we've had to navigate supply chain shortage and government loans please do not forget that we business owners are people too my father passed away from covid and I was evacuated from my home due to last year's fires which came within feet of my home while trying to keep my business alive I'm not here for a pity party but I'm here to say please do not punish businesses or their owners any further please extend a grace period for enforcement on the fur band just as other cities have done we need it we really do thank you for your time thank you Christine next we have

[47:02] Lynn seagull Patrick Murphy and Chelsea Castellano hi Lyn here well David Adamson called me today and it looks like we're gonna be collaborating um after a polarizing lecture I mean a polarizing um um Council election um we are two individuals that are going to collaborate that have been polarized in various ways but that feel that it's timely that somehow we bring the community together and that the community finds a way to bring itself together to approach the climate change and other issues I hope we make it through tomorrow I don't know about how to find the weather and I guess we're

[48:00] going to have a twister I don't know it's like wow um I hate when the wind comes here but um we're going to be working with a um someone who does storytelling and speech speech development and so that we can both of us David and me um project better to you what our feelings are and and an example I hope for the community of how how we can all communicate better um I found last night at the tab meeting there's so many things going at odds that that people are not integrated in what they're a single effort towards something um and I think that it's timely that we do this now um you know as I always say I think what we really need is a per capita impact and then we as a community

[49:03] can decide how how many people we want here with each new development that comes before us and decide on that and knowing what the impact is going to be so that we don't have I'm afraid your time is up thank you for that um next we have Patrick Murphy Chelsea Castellano and Sarah Don Haynes my name is Patrick Murphy I've lived in Boulder 52 years this presentation is about using the boulder occupation tax a carbon tax in an equitable way what is the occupation tax and what is it used for slide two note calling this an occupation tax is a nonsense name that means nothing it is a carbon tax here's an example of a

[50:01] boulder electric bill note that at the bottom of this bill like your own is the boulder occupation tax that's a percentage of your total energy bill it is a carbon tax also note that the format of your bill changed this October when the mun was finally removed from this tax this tax should be called the boulder carbon tax but Clarity and transparen you're not always the goal slide three the occupation tax just like the climate action plan tax is a carbon tax here are the three carbon taxes you have paid each month and what they collect annually and cumulatively over time the cap tax collects about 1.8 million a year now totals 25.2 million the occupation tax collects over 4 million a year is not used for carbon reduction and now totals 36 million the mun effort collected about 2 million a year and now totals 20 million but

[51:00] note that in 2017 we added 4 million and in 2019 we added three million in total Boulder collected $88.2 million in carbon taxes and more than half of that was never used for real carbon reduction slide four so what's wrong a carbon tax that is not used for carbon reduction what could we do with that 4 to7 million each year that is not used for carbon reduction solar incentives windsource incentives recks and energy use reduction details to come in my next presentations thank you Patrick next we have Chelsey Castellano and saridon Haynes um hello my name is Chelsea Castellano um first I just wanted to share my gratitude for uh to DY for so

[52:02] strongly advocating for a suspension of city-led um enforcement on people sharing housing uh for the thousands of people living over occupied in our community jun's leadership meant that their voices and needs were represented and that someone was advocating for their right to live in peace without the fear of being displaced for the crime of sharing a home um but I'm here tonight because we were made aware of the situation at Tandra Lake where residents are being asked to leave by Boulder housing partners by the end of this month if they don't think that they qualify for affordable housing um I've seen some correspondence between Jeremy Durham and Tom Tim Thomas and appears that there is significant disconnect between BHP and many of the residents of Tantra Lake um for example BHP has recognized that there are 11 households living in Tantra Lake right now now that were asked to leave by BHP um by the end of December and BHP has stated that they

[53:01] have not yet confirmed if they qualify to stay or if they have to leave so you know my question is what will happen to these 11 families and the families who have already left because they were confused and didn't know what to do um you know I won't pretend to completely understand the Dynamics going on here but the thing that matters most that tenants of Boulders Housing Authority feel that they are not being treated fairly um what can feel like protocol for BHP can be an absolute crisis for the tenants so it's important that we validate the experience of those experiencing harm um one way to reduce these types of conflicts in the future is to increase transparency between BHP and the community especially around activities where BHP is forcing their tenants to leave um when this type of situation comes up Council and the community should know how many tenants are being asked to leave the goals for relocating tenants and the reality of how many of those people were

[54:01] successfully placed in alternate BHP housing uh while we do not have much control oh okay thank you for listening thanks for that uh last we have Sarah Don Haynes and then we'll see if any of the missing people are back hello this is Sarah Don I am speaking for myself and um as also a 15-year friend of Tim Thomas we served on suu's first environmental justice board for several years together and I also wear other hats the uh executive committee for CR Club ipg group bedrooms are for people volunteer and before that BOA Boulder Community Housing Association and before that make Boulder home and when we started organizing around

[55:00] housing almost 7 years ago it was about protecting our friends who were facing eviction from um and working to keep our low income renter Community whole friends from my environmental work have you know gotten to know that I'm deep in on the housing issues and um often reach out um like Tim did and I fully support uh Tim's plea to have uh Council you know look into this um what Jake and Chelsea and RJ have all um brought up help us understand what um Council can do to keep um our community whole and um you know also looking at the history of um or I'm sorry the the work of Dr Julian aiman who's now a advisory for mayor woo in Boston and I think that that's just wonderful um lead leadership that both Tim Thomas and I have have deeply invested in as a mentor and guide

[56:00] and um that these are you know on the heels of the dedication for National homeless persons Memorial Day really struck a chord with me and so I appreciate your your attention kind of digging in and helping us um I'll get on the same page thank you thanks sodon uh and we have confirmed that Preston Smith and Lydia Hall are still not here so with that we're going to bring open comment to a close and Nia or and or Sandra do you have any responses to what we've heard I just wanted to a thank those folks that are really thinking and including council members who are thinking um about our unsheltered population at this time right and wanted to I know that Kurt spoke a bit about um some of the concerns and what can be planned and I wholeheartedly um know uh the constraints we have with staff as we move forward I also wanted to share and I know he mentioned it too that we have

[57:00] been in touch um with Emergency Management and I wanted to assure community that we are monitoring or they are monitoring the situations um and we will be talking all throughout the day as Kurt mentioned that communication to Providers has gone out and if there is a need depending on the strength of the wind and if there is to your point Matt if there is flying debris if there is conditions that are unsafe then Emergency Management has the wherewithal to um activate an emergency shelter Mission which will then bring some additional resources to the table so I just wanted to a express my thanks and know that we will be monitoring this throughout the day to make sure that people are um safe and fine particularly in the evening we know that there are some places for folks to go during the day but in the evening when there are not we want to make sure that we are paying attention and leaning in and if anything comes up we will of course let Council

[58:00] know thanks very much for that N I appreciate that a great deal to know that there if there is an act of emergency we will have options Sandra yes thank you mayor um I I don't have any comments other than to say that I will be addressing some of the comments made regarding the human clothing act uh under matters for uh from City attorney so just wanted to mention that great yeah we will be clarifying um how um a focus on education rather than enforcement when the uh measure first goes into effect so it's going to be a couple hours before we get there but we are going to have a more full update um a little later on this evening folks um who are concerned about that and um ner do we also have I think information from Kurt about the situation at Tantra Lakes yes I apologize I was just tagging him to make sure that he was ready and he certainly is so so we will send that over to Kurt thank uh good evening Council I'll introduce myself again for those who

[59:00] aren't at the beginning of the meeting I'm Kurt for har director of housing Human Services um yeah so thanks for uh that opportunity uh Erin um we have received some emails with concerns um about the transition at Tantra um I can give you a little background I'm not going to speak for BHP but I have information that may be helpful and any I'm happy to answer questions that you may have so um BHP in partnership with the city um purchased um the Tantra Apartments um in 2016 it was part of the um uh City council's one of City council's priorities um around affordable housing preservation um at that time um I believe it was about uh 30 or 40% of the units um were designated as affordable there was a transition that occurred at the beginning with those first units um

[60:01] there's always been an expectation that this project would transition to 100% affordable as as the um resources were available um BP um uh since 2016 and recently um uh applied for additional litec funds um to transition the remaining Apartments at Tantra into affordable housing um residents who live at Tantra were notified of that um uh in April of this year um uh formally as well as um other Communications that had occurred uh previously around the direction of the Tantra Apartments um so the um BHP has been working with those tenants since April um what we understand from our communication from BHP today today is that there's 11 residents that they're still working with um some of the

[61:00] residents um that were living there qualify for affordable housing and they're they're staying there um others their leases um are not um renewed however they're given time to transition to um a different apartment and BHP assists with that um uh I don't know that we've heard from any of those uh residents from Tantra um concerns that they're um experiencing um the um the other thing that I'll mention is that um the process that BHP is going through at Tantra actually occurs through our affordable housing portfolio every year um uh in a very similar way um residents who live in affordable housing um uh have to um on on um every other year um they have to show their their income and that they still

[62:01] qualify for affordable housing most residents um maintain their affordable housing but some residents um uh their their incomes go up and um you know they get promotions at work or they have significant um increases in their salary when that occurs um we let those individuals know and they're able to um continue with the rest of their lease and they're often given um additional months as needed um to uh to make that transition often giving them um um a year of rce to do that um so this this situation is similar to that um process that we go through um with other um affordable housing developments as well but I'm I'm glad to answer any other uh questions that you may have um with the uh public Communications you received this week well I'll I'll start out if I

[63:00] could thanks for all that information Kurt that's very helpful uh what I saw in an email from BHP is that folks in in fact are are not getting evicted that they're still working with people to find new housing can can you confirm that that in fact people are not being evicted the next few weeks yeah that's that's correct um BHP um in fact none of our housing providers affordable housing providers EV ICT um individuals through this process um and you know EV eviction is a you know a technical term with the technical process um it doesn't mean that they um uh don't um have um the ability to to to not um continue the lease um when the lease ends um and so that's where that transition occurs and that's why BHP gives several months notice to work with individuals on that transition um but uh BHP does not evict individuals

[64:00] through this process thanks but and then to confirm that the eviction is a formal process but they're also not forcing people to leave their housing in the next three weeks either right that that's correct thanks for that did anybody else have any other questions for Kurt I see Nicole I just wanted to uh make sure that I understand so it sounds like for the folks whose leases are ending um that that they weren't necessarily given the option to renew because the housing is going to be um converted for folks who need affordable housing um but what I I'm still a little unclear on kind of the status of those families that we heard about um who are um I know they're not going to be evicted but it sounds like their lease is ending and they don't have an option of where else to go um is that I mean at what point are they kind of out of housing options is is that what some of this is referring to

[65:01] as to you know people being concerned about families being out on the streets in three weeks yeah well um I I haven't heard from any of those um 11 um households um but again the process of communicating with them would have started in April um however um leases expire at various times during the year so someone's lease could have expired ired in um October someone else's may not um expire until February or March um of next year so they would be working with those those residents um to plan towards the end of that lease um but if the um if they're still running into challenges um BHP um is flexible with um helping them make that transition um and it's not unusual for um a month or two to be added um to the lease as they make that transition okay and it sounds like if there are families who are experiencing this these struggles that BHP is not

[66:01] aware of what would they do in order to get on people's radar that they needed some um help would they contact BHP or yes they would contact BHP and BHP is contacting them so BHP is in contact with um all of those 11 households um and um I there's um uh I'll also say that 11 is a is a small portion of those that have transitioned out um so these are the sort of the remaining 11 that have occurred um since April of this year okay thanks for all that Kurt um do any council members have any other followup from open [Music] comment right see none then we can move on to the consent agenda Alicia can you talk us through

[67:01] that please of course sir thank you next on tonight's agenda we have item number three which is our consent agenda which includes items a C through h b was removed for the record thank you and I believe that one of those it's about a first reading of designating 1902 Walman street is an individual landmark and I believe we're going to get some information um about the process that's been followed and is going to be followed on that um Sandra are you the point person for that I am I am thank you U mayor um so um there were uh some allegations or uh some communication from two individuals uh to council regarding um uh some alleged deficiencies in the process related to the um landmarks Ford

[68:00] um October hearing and so um regarding those process allegations I I respectfully disagree with their position um there were no legal process errors and therefore you should not invalidate the landmarks for decision and um some of the reasons to support this are as follows um section 1-3 -5 of the BRC is applicable to quasi judicial hearings and it states quote in the absence of objection the hearing may be conducted informally and failure to request any procedure shall constitute a waiver thereof no objection was made at the October landmarks quasi judicial hearing so the objection is therefore waved can you hear me yes we can okay I just got a message that uh my internet is it's kind of weak so I just wanted to make sure um secondly the board's determination is a recommendation to

[69:01] city council but Council actually makes the final decision and council is scheduled to conduct a quasi judicial hearing on the matter um on January 4th and um and during that hearing it will take um evidence into consideration um denovo which means um that it will take it as if if it's being heard for the first time so um even with um the non-sworn testimony that is alleged there is still substantial evidence in the record to support the landmark board's decision um and then I would also add that even if a court were to find error which I do not think is likely a court would likely find it to be harmless error since all of the Witnesses were provided an an opportunity to testify and their reliability is not in question

[70:01] um lastly I'd just like to say that um applicants have a legal right to rebuttal in a quasi judicial hearing but members of the public do not um however the public will have an opportunity to provide input to council at the January 4th hearing thank you for all that Sandra that's that's very helpful and in other words we could proceed with approving the first reading tonight and then we would just scrupulously follow the correct procedures for requ a Judicial hearing at our Hearing in public Hearing in January as a denovo kind of a thing exactly and and and I guess I'd also take the opportunity to note that um the council rules of procedure are um slightly different in that they actually um state that um testimony does not need to be sworn so there it it alleviates that requirement so that's not something

[71:00] that will be done at the hearing on January 4th there that nobody will be sworn in at that time thanks again for all that does anybody have any followup with SRA on that any other comments on the consent agenda oh no we've got something uh I have a procedural question um for items F through H um for those of us that were not present or were not elected what's the right procedure with regards to us um presumably not voting is it a um recusal is it what what is the procedure that you recommend for those of us not weighing in on those three items Sandra do you obstain in that situation I believe that that's the case in the past that we we've had folks just abstain and and i' I'd welcome if there's any other input from um Alicia Johnson the

[72:00] city clerk that I would I would welcome that as well if she has any other thoughts um with my research regarding that particular measure because ni I Bob has his hand up as well probably to help me with that historically um it seems that there is there was no continuous way to follow it so some years the actual new council members as stained and other years they did read the minutes and review the meeting and then they did feel comfortable approving it so um I think it's up to you as individuals at this point Bob you have something to add yeah I I think um I think we follow Robert's Rules and and my reading of Robert's Rules is that it is not necessary for a board member to have been present at a meeting in order to approve the meeting minutes so I think if a council member wants to obstain you certainly can but you don't have to and it's very common for board members or bodies members to vote to approve minutes even though they didn't attend or participate appreciate the Parliamentary

[73:01] advice on Rachel just a question like if everybody who is here right now but who was not present at the September 21st meeting recused there would only be I think three of us who could vote on that one to approve like that if we don't have a quorum as to an issue would that not then get passed so um because I think Bob and juny were not present for uh a good portion of that meeting so just wondering if if that means that people would need to vote even if they were not at a meeting so doesn't an exstension count as a yes vote um effectively in our rules I believe so yes so it's a good good question Rachel but I think it would still work out because they they'd end up going down as a yes even with an extension okay well I have one comment on on the consent agenda uh the first item is approval of council committee assignments for 2022 and thanks to

[74:00] everyone for the collaboration and figuring out who went where um there's some a lot of discussions on that I'm glad it worked out my one request would be um that the uh appointment of Nicole spear to the Denver Regional Council of governments uh be postdated to December 17th to give me a chance to serve uh one last meeting tomorrow night um before heading off that board and that Bob I'm just going to move the consent agenda as read by Alicia a few months ago great can I can I make that friendly amendment of changing the effective data Dr with with the friendly Amendment from mayor BR okay to December 17th second with uh the friendly Amendment included great um if I any discussion or we can just take a vote this is a roll call I believe yes sir it is thank thank you we will start with council member farts um I approve except for I would

[75:00] like to abstain from member from items F through H as I was under the impression that I was not allowed to weigh in on them and therefore did not read them mayor protim friend yes council member Joseph yes speaker here um yes and I also would like to abstain for f through H I did read them but did not watch those meetings and I don't remember if those were ones I watched before getting elected thank you wallik hi Wier yes Yates yes Benjamin yes but I too would like to to abstain from items F through H um as I was also under the impression that we were not allowed to weigh in on meetings

[76:00] we were not present for and thus did not read the minutes and mayor Brockett yes the consent agenda with items A and C through H was approved with the noted exensions from fuler Spear and Benjamin thank thank everyone we can move into our call-ups we've got a couple of callup check-ins L you want to talk us through those yes sir thank you item four a is the call up consideration for the landmark alteration certificate for window replacement SL Rehabilitation at 2420 10th Street contributing property in the Mapleton Hill historic district thanks any desire to call this one up me Tarra yeah and then Lauren so Terry you want to you're just going to vote and Lauren did you want to

[77:05] speak see Lauren I was just I saw you raise your hand but I wasn't sure what you done yeah um well I just had a are we going to hear more about this or we're just voting on whether or not we want to call it up if you want ask a question yeah feel free and okay so um one of the questions that I had was I heard that this building had caught fire since the landmarks meeting in discussion and I just wanted to clarify that the that we believe that the windows actually are salvageable or you know like the callup or not has um would be meaningful because the windows could be saved or something like that or

[78:00] not rcy I see you popping up there uh good evening council members um and thank you for your question um so in a unfortunate turn of events there was a um building fire at this address um the night of the landmarks Board hearing and so um the landmarks board held a public hearing and approved the rehabilitation of the windows and then after the hearing was closed um staff and the landmarks board were informed that uh the building had been damaged by fire um I spoke with the architect today and and fortunately it sounds like there wasn't extensive structural damage though um they still have uh an engineering report that they're waiting on um but it sounds like the windows the porch uh and some other elements um were damaged and uh will be uh will need to be replaced and so um we are

[79:00] working with the property owners they're intending to submit a new Landmark alteration certificate application um for review that includes replacement of the windows and the um current condition of the windows will be considered as part of that review um and we'll also work internally to expedite that review um to the extent possible Marcy could you introduce yourself please oh I'm so sorry I'm Marcy gerwing historic preservation planner in planning and development services thank you Mar did you have a followup and then we got Mark and Matt no that was great thank you so much Marcy for that I I guess my question is is it not a bit premature to be either calling up or not calling up an application when there's a much larger scope that's coming down the road should we not be doing that all at once my understanding is that the um application in front of you for call up

[80:01] um is for the rehabilitation of the windows um and whether if the council does not call it up that uh decision will be final and then they would submit a new application starting a new process um going forward and so the um decision by the landmarks board um did not consider the information um about the fire damage yeah I guess I'm kind of following on Mark here because it seems it seems odd to call this up and debate this when it's going to effectively be changed in a subsequent application so I I so I mean in my understanding that that's kind of we're GNA sort of rehash this and have a little Deja Vu yes so um if they or when they do submit new application it's not necessarily going to going to go to the full landmarks board which is the decision that's subject to a um city

[81:01] council callup it's possible that the um the review and approval could happen at the um committee level um and that you all wouldn't see it again but it is a separate application with um a increased scope of work because of the uh because of the fire damage um and I would also mentioned that in speaking with the architect today the owners don't um uh they don't wish to have it called up they don't they weren't intending to ask for that um tonight oh they don't want it called up um that's what my understanding is from the architect well given all of that is there any interest in calling this up okay seeing lots of shaking heads uh well poor poor folks structure fire on the very night of landmark Board hearing hope um hope the damage isn't too extensive or expensive um great so Alicia our next

[82:01] one please next there we have item 4B which is the callup consideration concerning the water services agreement with University of Colorado at Boulder for the East Campus very good were we going to get a quick description about this or are we just available for comments uh mayor I think we've got Ed Stafford at the at the ready um certainly to respond and if there's a comments he wants to make beforehand he certainly could can I I'm I'm sorry so sorry to interrupt um I just wanted to ask if I could recuse myself um from this part of the conversation just given my relationship with the university thanks for bringing that up Nicole absolutely we um you can turn your camera off and I'll text you when we're done okay very festive looking Edward Stafford there what do you got for us my apologies that was from a different meeting we will switch that one um so what you have before you time for call

[83:00] up consideration is a fairly routine although not something we do on a regular basis water service agreement this one happens to be with the University of Colorado Boulder for their East Campus we have similar for their main campus we have them with a few other users such as Avery Brewing was one of a more recent one in the last few years these are agreements that are actually required by the boulder revised code when you have a larger water supply I and this helps to sure that we have an agreement on what the water is will be supplying to them um and the issues that are beyond the more typical smaller meters this particular one will allow the uh University to treat the East Campus as a total campus with their water they will have a water budget similar actually the same right now to what they have if they need to increase it for future development they would be subject to the same fees of anybody else this will allow them to do a Master Meter system though rather than metering each individual building so they'll be able to both control the water across their campus and they also will take on the responsibility for the water distribution system Beyond those Master meters with that certainly if there are

[84:00] questions happy to uh provide additional information or answer any questions thanks that any questions or desire to call this one up I'm not seeing either of them so not seeing any we'll we'll say no to that call up and Edward thanks for that information all right I think that takes us into one and only public hearing for the evening all right sir we have item 5A which is the second reading and consideration of a motion to adopt by emergency measure ordinance 8514 amending Title 9 land use code of the BRC 1981 to add conditional use standards for oil and gas operations amending title three the revenue and Taxation BRC 1981 to adopt an oil and gas pollution tax and repealing ordinance 8435 and

[85:01] setting forth related details great and let's just give Nicole a moment to come back into the meeting I text her minut go there she is welcome back Nicole and I'll just before we get started I'll just lay out as we do our public hearings the structure will be a staff presentation and we can ask questions of Staff uh then we can hear from the public then we can um make comments after the public hearing so presentation questions public hearing and then comments and then leading up to a motion and a vote of some kind okay with that structure Carl you want to take it away good evening council members I'm Carl Gyer I'm senior planner with the Department of planning and development services uh tonight I'm going to talk about the proposed oil and gas regulations for the city of Boulder uh it's contained in ordinance 84 I'm sorry

[86:00] 8514 uh that ordinance which is attached to your packet basically covers a number of items so it makes two changes to the boulder Revised Code so in one instance it will add new oil and gas regulations to Title 9 which is the city's land use code uh it'll also entail um the inclusion of a new oil and gas pollution tax which gets added to title three which is revenue and Taxation within the boulder Revis code it would also repeal the moratorium on oil and gas drilling upon passage so one thing I wanted to make clear uh to the council tonight is as an emergency ordinance it does require a two-thirds vote of council um if that it was to pass uh it would become in imediately and the reason that staff is recommending this is is that the moratorium expires on December 31st so it would put these regulations into effect before that expiration date so

[87:00] one thing that we mentioned to planning board was that um as City staff we don't claim to be experts on oil and gas um in the industry but we have learned much in the last year uh we we have been assisted by an attorney who's a an expert in the um oil and gas industry her name is Elizabeth panus and she's joined with us tonight and will be available to answer any technical questions um on oil and gas oil and gas and also note that um there are very few sites that would be eligible in the city of Boulder and I I'll point that out um as we go through the presentation but we do feel that it is important to get these regulations uh within the boulder Revis code so as the mayor noted can you all see the presentation oh there we go here we go yes as the mayor noted um we'll start with the staff presentation on the the proposed ordinance Then followed by clarifying questions uh on the ordinance to staff

[88:01] and then we'll have the public hearing uh and then Council will deliberate the ordinance and and make a decision on the ordinance tonight so on the slide is is a basic definition of what hydraulic fracturing is or what is more widely known as fracking uh We've also included some uh links within the staff memo uh to some of the state websites uh that cover oil and gas drilling in the state of Colorado and and as as the council knows fracking has increased significantly in recent years uh and much of this uh industry is regulated by the state so it's specifically regulated by the Colorado oil and gas Conservation Commission or what we call the cogcc so the map that you can see up on the screen here shows a portion of Boulder County so you'll see the city of Boulder on the left and East uh Boulder County on on the right side so those yellow dots are actually active Wells

[89:01] you can see there's not many active Wells near the city of Boulder that area that's in the kind of like bubbles around where all the yellow dots are is called the wattenberg field so it's a area that's where the oil and gas is more prevalent it's more easily accessed um so that's why you see a lot more Drilling in East Boulder County um so obviously you know we've been looking to Boulder County on their regulations on how they regulate um the the oil and gas drilling the the the white dots basically show either abandoned Wells or inactive Wells there are wells that date back to you know turn of the turn of the prior Century uh in the city of Boulder we don't have any active Wells currently so um if we were to apply the current land use code to oil and gas drilling irrespective of the moratorium the way this the code would recognize oil and gas is it it's in our definition for mining Industries So currently in the city of Boulder in the industrial

[90:01] manufacturing and agricultural zones it does permit mining Industries with approval of a use review application and if you're familiar with the use review it is an involved process but it only has um a small number of criteria that relate to character of the area compatibility with the area uh compatibility with the zoning um so it isn't very specific to oil and gas so that's why it's we find that it's critical to add these regulations to the land use code so efforts to ban oil and gas drilling have been challenged we we did include an example in the packet um of the city of Longmont um in response to the increase in drilling that we've seen along the Front Range a lot of communities have been enacting moratorium on drilling applications um so the city Boulder has started the moratorium in 2013 and it's been extended a number of times uh the boulder moratorium now expires at the

[91:01] end of this month so that's why we're we're bringing this forward um a number of other communities enacted moratorium but they've also adopted regulations in um in the last few months and their moratoriums have been um have been uh repealed so um since 2019 the state did an update to the state legislation which is Senate Bill 19-1 181 and it in response to some of the growing concerns of the impacts of oil and gas drilling in the State uh the state basically broaden what the local jurisdictions could do to regulate oil and gas operations it was largely just regulated by the state previously but now local governments have a wider power so they they have specified that if regulations are reasonable and apply to surface impacts um cities can and counties can adopt new regulations to

[92:01] evaluate the potential impact so since that was passed in 2019 a number of communities uh many communities along the Front Range have been adopting new regulations so we've been researching those those regulations um some examples uh locally our Boulder County adopted their regulations at the end of 2020 uh Erie ad Ed regulations in 2020 um and then going into this year Commerce City Broomfield Lafayette and West Westminster have also adopted very similar regs to what we're talking about tonight Fort Collins is in the process of developing their their regulations now so you'll see a lot of references to the 2000 foot setback in the memo and we've talked about it in uh some correspondence this really derives from a um an environmental assessment that was was done by the Colorado Department of Public Health and environment where they did measurements at different distances away from Wells to see what the the impacts would be and they found

[93:01] at 2,000 ft that there were still detectable um uh chemicals in the air that could potentially cause harm so this really substantiated the state to adopt or revise their setbacks in their coded previously had just been 500 feet and they increased it to 2,000 feet they do have mechanisms in the state code where you can reduce that setback down but you have to basically demonstrate that you're you're providing the same level of protection as if it were at you know 2,000 feet so a number of of other jurisdictions have adopted that 2,000 feet uh into their RS uh and we are proposing the same um and these setbacks would be from places where you know there's human occupation um in residential units schools daycare centers Senior Care Facilities um there's a little bit of deviation between some of the jurisdictions on what they include in that land use list we've uh included hospitals uh and Recreation areas uh playgrounds things

[94:01] of that nature so you can see with the 2000 foot setback that there's very few sites in the city of Boulder that would be eligible um obviously city of Boulder is very developed um and it's not like you know places like Boulder County or or areas of Broomfield that have wide open lands where there's uh easier ways for oil and gas drolling to occur in those areas so you can see the purple and the the green are those areas uh largely up in Gun Barrel and uh small portions in East Boulder and the agricultural land between gun barrel and and the rest of the city um up north is the areas that would be eligible based on this 2,000 foot setback the the blue basically denotes Recreation facilities uh that does make some additional areas in East Boulder ineligible so we wanted to make that clear um and this is actually in the attachment B of the

[95:00] packet so attachment a contains the draft ordinance um as we've noted in the packet it's largely based on Boulder County regulations which are are very comprehensive on addressing air quality um assessing impact um like soils impact odor noise um we find that going with what Boulder County has prepared um would would make a a good a good way of being consistent between coordination between the county and the city um obviously because there's open space lands that are adjacent to city-owned lands it makes sense to have the same regulations we can also use the same resources and get advice from each other Lafayette base their regulations on Boulder County so just having some sort of alignment between the regulations makes sense so that's why we're suggesting that we use a lot of the content of Boulder County regulations um like other jurisdictions um that we've mentioned a lot of similarities most of the communities

[96:01] require pre-application um neighborhood meetings U before an application even comes in uh many communities have a review called special review that's something that we used to call it in the city of Boulder it's now called use review so the use review process would be consistent with other jurisdictions and how they evaluate there'd be requirements for specific studies to make findings of no or minimized impact and that decisions would be made by planning board or city councils in these decisions and also the 2000 foot setbacks as I mentioned before so getting into the content of of the ordinance uh we are proposing that the mining Industries definition that I spoke of before would be revised so basically removing the references to oil and gas and keeping mining Industries um to be different um like other types of mining Industries instead of oil and gas

[97:00] and then creating a new definition for oil and gas in the code this is similar to what Lafayette had done um and then we would add oil and gas operations to the use table as as a use review use in the industrial manufacturing and agricultural Zone uh as I mentioned there would be a pre-application and Good Neighbor meeting process um we're also proposing to add the geophysical exploration permit uh this is not common along the Front Range but it was incorporated into the Boulder County regs uh they adopted their uh geophysical exploration permits from a jurisdiction in Pennsyvania but it's basically like if if any kind of company comes in and wants to test for whether or not they want to do any kind of drilling they do have these special trucks that cause like vibrations where they can sense where they can drill so Boulder County opted to put that in their code to actually have a special review process uh and we're proposing to do the same again the likelihood of this

[98:00] is probably fairly low um but if it were to happen uh there would be a land use review and it be subject to uh planning board callup and then if anybody was to request to drill they would be required to go through a use riew process so there' be specific impact related criteria and the requirement to go to planning board uh and then any decision that planning board would make on such an application would be subject to city council uh callup so we're proposing to add the regulations at the end of our chapter 96 in our land use code uh because the these particular regulations are probably not going to be used that frequently and actually add a substantial amount of length to our land use Cobra proposing that it be added to as 962b which would be at the end of chapter 96 uh it would require public notice to properties one mile from any request site uh an extensive written

[99:00] statement uh would have to be uh prepared covering those things that are shown on the slide uh there'll be a number of different detailed plans that would be required the first seven on that list like Wetlands plans flood plane plans tree inventory these are all things that are fairly common in a site review application um but beyond the outdoor lighting plan there's a number of of of more detailed plans that aren't typically required that we've seen in if you look at other jurisdiction regulations it's consistent with that so dust suppression plans facility layout and pipeline plans electrification plans these are all new requirements being added to the land use code this is uh table two from your memo packet uh there's also a requirement for very detailed studies that would have to be prepared by experts um certified experts in the field that would assess for a number of different things on air quality odor noise and vibration impact of flood planes uh Ser looking at

[100:02] cultural and historic resources uh again this is very consistent with other communities um we're also putting we also put some language in the code that would require like a basically a peer review where we would get consultant referrals um so that you know we would there there would have to experts hired to evaluate any studies prepared by the applicant the applicant would have to pay for those and those Consultants would have to make recommendations to the city as to whether the specific review criteria that would have to be that are in the code that relate to each of these topics would be met so if you reviewed the ordinance you'll see that there's an extensive section that talks about you know air quality there has to be a finding made on you know that it either there is no impact or minimizes and mitigat any impact um same for water same for storm water same for uh Wildlife um it's very extensive so um

[101:01] the way we look at this is it's much like how the city reviewed the Hogan pound cost project and I know some of you were familiar with that project uh there was a lot of extensive studies that were done for that project and there was also the peer review and Consultants that had to advise on each of the studies so if any proposal did come in I I it would be an extensive review um by a number of different um folks that before a recommendation is made uh to planning board there's been a fair amount of input um on these regulations we we've consulted with Boulder County uh we've talked to planning board we've heard from some industry experts U we've also gotten input from our hired consultant who I mentioned Elizabeth panus um So based on that feedback we have uh added reverse setbacks to the code this is like if a oil and gas facility gets um established somewhere it would set up a setback mechanism for any new

[102:00] development coming close to it and this is a fairly new thing in some of these regulations some of the jurisdictions have not adopted reverse setbacks excuse me um so there's a lot of variation between what the setbacks are and and not too many studies on this as of yet so it might be something we have to revise in the future but what we're proposing now is that if there is an oil and gas facility that's in the pre-production phase so that's when they're actually setting up the site putting the drill rig in constructing everything doing the drilling activities that actually can lead to to the highest level of impact there would be a reverse setback for specified uses um at 2,000 feet for a single well pad or 25 200 feet for a multi-well pad and then after it it goes out of the pre-production phase into production so production is basically when it's extracting the chemicals um oil and gas

[103:00] from the ground and there's not as much particulates going in the air that's the production phase that setback would then reduce to 500 feet and then if it was capped off later that setback would reduce to 250 feet so we we have looked at a number of other jurisdictions on that for some guidance uh areas in the process of actually increasing their reverse setback from I believe 350 ft up to 500 ft for uh those that are in production uh we are proposing an expiration date for the use review approval at 10 years this is based on Boulder County's regs it's not something that is common in other jurisdictions um the other jurisdictions once they get approval they can continue to operate Boulder County opted to give 10 years uh this is really meant to re-evaluate uh an operation if it were to be around for that long and whether they're still meeting best practices or whether there's needs to be any changes or whether there's updates to the oil and

[104:00] gas regs that should be applied to the operation so we're proposing to adopt that same regulation we've made some updates to the insurance coverage requirements um our expert attorney has uh made some recommendations including the 2500 foot setback for multiwell sites inclusion of alternative site analysis as part of preap uh and then also making some adjustments to the language as to not conflict um with state law So based on this uh it's been you know over a year of analysis on this we feel that um the regulations are very comprehensive and do address a lot of the potential impacts and we feel that um we've tried to strike a balance with um the potential of allowing this um while also you know keeping the appropriate distances and enabling a very extensive process to assess for impacts and we find that the regs as proposed would meet these uh Boulder

[105:01] Valley comprensive plan policies uh we presented this to the planning board in November they unanimously appr recommended approval of the ordinance to city council So based on that um we're recommending approval of it this is the motion language on the slide again the the ordinance relates to adding the new language in Title 9 the land use code adding the new language on the oil and gas pollution tax I didn't mention that that that tax was actually passed by public referendum of a vote in 2018 so this is because we're actually enabling uh oil and gas operations in the city and there could be extractions it's now the appropriate time to implement that tax so that is part of the ordinance and it would repeal ordinance 843 5 which is the last ordinance that extended the moratorium so staff is recommending that Council pass the ordinance as an emergency measure tonight so that

[106:01] concludes uh the presentation I'm happy to answer any questions thanks so much for that Carl for the excellent presentation and also for the whole Year's worth of work on this complicated and difficult subject so much appreciation to even staff for other staff for all of that and also I know um Mark and Nicole sent questions in advant appreciate those getting answered as well now additional questions uh Tera I see you got your hand up other people could possibly ask the same question so here's my question I understand that we want consistency with Boulder County and also at 2,000 ft there are concerns with noise odor and air quality Etc so why would Boulder County pick 2,000 ft if there was still concerns at 2,000 fet I think a lot of jurisdictions have chosen 2,000 feet because of the 2,000 feet started in the in the in the health

[107:00] study and then it translated into the state law so a lot of jurisdictions adopted the 2,000 feet and what that really means is that at 2,000 feet it doesn't mean like if you have an oil and gas operation at 2,000 feet it doesn't mean that there's not going to be impacts it means that there's there were measurements detected at area which substantiates the need to have the process to evaluate for impacts so I see Elizabeth has jumped on so maybe she can add to that as well sure I'm happy to thanks so much Carl and thanks for the question um I mean the truth of the matter is it's very hard to figure out exactly what the right distance is from an oil and gas facility where there will be no impacts or where there will even be safe impacts um right I mean it's an industrial activity there are unfortunately adverse impacts associated with it some of those are air emissions some of those are you know noise impacts um Dust Light

[108:02] pollution so a setback is only one tool in the toolbox to either avoid or minimize impacts to Public Health and the environment and people's welfare there's a suite of um requirements in the rules that also either eliminate or mitigate adverse impacts and you know things like requiring zero emitting equipment be used where there will be no air emissions at all from certain types of equipment that's used at an oil and gas facility requiring noise monitoring and setting deciel limits above which a violation would occur if there noise exceeded that threshold right so you have to look at the the regulations in their entirety to really make an assessment as to how protective um they are and the setback is certainly a component of that but it's really only it's really only one component and and in my opinion it's not even the most important component I would say those

[109:02] other measures that eliminate or mitigate adverse impacts are actually more important with respect to protecting public health and the environment um so that's that's another piece of the puzzle Elizabeth thanks for that answer do you mind introducing yourself absolutely sure so I'm Elizabeth Prim I'm outside Council uh to the city helping them with these oil and gas regulations um and I've also helped a number of other local jurisdictions both Revis their local oil and gas regulations um including the city and county of Broomfield the city of Lafayette uh Aurora um Westminster Boulder County um just to name a few and then I represent some of those local governments before the cogcc and the air quality control commission when those entities up upate their regulations and I also do a lot of work for the environmental defense fund on state federal and international air quality regulations related specifically to oil

[110:01] and gas operations thank you Tara anything else Matt then Mark uh well I want to thank you Carl for the extensive process and work that's gone into to getting to this place and and getting us to a place where we're we're able to move beyond the moratorium and find some regulatory means of moving forward so I appreciate those efforts um I have really two questions um one is really kind of a followup to something that Mark wrote in his um hotline post and there's reference into sort of like the city has the authority to determine if the cleanup has been satisfactorily performed and what I'm curious about is are does the city have the final word or soulle discretion on that or are there State entities that share the jurisdiction on evaluating um such cleanups I'm happy to answer that question so absolutely there are State entities both the Water Quality Control Commission the oil and gas Conservation

[111:02] Commission and also EPA could have authority depending on where the contamination is so if it for example absolute worst case scenario would be there's contamination of drinking water then all three of those entities would actually have jurisdiction and would most likely be the primary ENT is responsible for ensuring that the cleanup is done according to each of their specific water quality standards well thank you for that that's a helpful answer um the other question I have as is more pertaining to light pollution um in in some of my work in in creating a dark sky Reserve in Central Idaho one of the flanking areas is an open pit malib of mine and we've been trying to work hard to mitigate the light pollution that comes off that that surface extraction uh mining operation and one of the conflicts we faced is that there tends to be a difference towards OSHA um regulations and lighting around oil and gas Andor mining um and

[112:01] that local regulations and that of the the the around and those rules around um the dark sky Reserve Were Somehow not allowed to sort of take effect in regulating the lighting that could be done in the mining operation so I'm wondering here does do oan regulations really sort of override our lighting ordinance in our lighting codes um or is there some shared responsibility is there a way for us to to sort of influence What's Done um with what is effectively just Big Barn Burning massive H hallogen and super bright lights and and a Major Impact to light pollution and the enjoyment of the environment so the city absolutely has authority to regulate light pollution that was one of the explicit areas of local Authority that the legislature granted in sb1 19181 um the cgcc also has authority to regulate uh light pollution from oil and gas facilities and they also have standards um and importantly know the city standards can be more stringent

[113:02] than those that have been adopted by the cogcc I am unaware of OSHA regulations I'm definitely not an OSHA expert so there absolutely may be some that apply to oil and gas I'm I have never heard of Osha preemption um of you know local oil and gas or even State oil and gas lighting standards so I guess what I would say is the city certainly has authority to regulate this particular source of pollution so does the state you can be more strict than the state I'm unaware of any OSHA preemption issues thank you for that I appreciate that good Mark then Rachel okay well first I want to thank Steph um given the mind num mind numbing complexity of this subject I think you've done a terrific job in grappling with it um you know in a community where it's very hard to

[114:00] reach consensus on anything I'm I'm pretty sure that there's a consensus in Boulder that we would like to see the most rigorous standards possible consistent with Senate bill 19181 and so my question is have we achieved that is there any portion of this where there would be greater flexibility to push the envelope to um increase our standards I mean if we had 2 200 feet rather than 2,000 feet um are we likely to to have this entire structure invalidated in a court proceeding and more generally are there any other areas where you know that envelope could be pushed and and still maintain a consistency with 19181 so I'm happy to take a shot at that um so as I mentioned I've helped a number of other local governments in

[115:01] Colorado review and revise their regulations both pre and posted the adoption of 19181 um as well as representing local governments before the cogcc both free 19181 and also during the mission change rulemaking where the state did a complete overhaul um of their regulations you know in my opinion Boulder County did a very good job of adopting extremely robust protective regulations since then the city of Boulder as well as other entities that I've worked with have I would say refined and strengthened in a few discrete areas some of the Boulder County standards um it is always I think possible with hindsight um or just additional review to go back and find some standard that could be stronger right so to say that like these regulations are the absolute most

[116:01] protective that they possibly could be including the setback I think that's just it's it's challenging to say however in as compared to all of the other Front Range local governments that have adopted regulations post 19181 and in light of what the state did during its Mission change rulem I can't right now today Identify some area where I would recommend the city go further I think we have know we've reviewed what the county did we've reviewed the city's draft we've refined the city's draft I think we are you know putting before you the most protective set of regulations that comport with local Authority that we can as of today and that includes having a variance procedure I'm I'm very troubled by that because the potential for a variance is a potential for litigation if we fail to Grant it and I'm very

[117:00] concerned about that um also concerned about that the 10-year uh term um before reapplication is required why not seven eight six I'm you know I I don't have a magic answer to this but um again I I'm just trying to see how far the envelope can be pushed before we would have legal Jeopardy and I guess I would say that's very hard to to just estimate you know I mean there's always some legal risk there has to be a basis for the regulations and they do have to comport with the law um certainly I think there have been some areas of potential Improvement that have been raised by council members over the last few days that I believe staff has either responded to already in a memo or May respond to this evening so I'm not saying there may not be some revisions that will be made this evening but overall my assessment of the draft is

[118:01] it's you know it's a very comprehensive strong protective draft um that does comport with the law and minimizes litigation risk although of course there's always the risk of litigation thank you elizabe Rachel then Nicole thanks Ain um thanks for the presentation um one question for Nua um did the did the environmental Advisory board look at this or weigh in at all I I actually would have to ask staff because I do not know okay that they did not um okay um I was just thinking uh it it would be helpful I understand we're in an emergency situation now and and uh late in the game but um maybe for future reference this seems like a a good thing for that boards who have have been invited to to advise on um and then second I'm just wondering if you could put the map back up I think this is to Carl um and and just show us again where

[119:03] the wells could go like there's not much happening now there are some capped Wells as I understand it but with the 2000 um feet buffer where can you just walk through one more time where it's possible can you see my cursor I can't see anything um your presentation isn't up anymore Carl there we go just for people who are living nearby or businesses so people know exactly what what is implicated by this 2000 foot buffer I I my curs can you see my cursor now yeah now I can yep so there's this stem of land that connects the main part of Boulder over over at to Gun Barrel you can see these agricultural lands in here would be eligible um there's also land I believe that's owned by IBM I think and this is

[120:01] also owned by the city right here um up in Gun Barrel in this purple area there were um areas eligible around like the flight IR business park but when you consider the stazio ball fields it really rules them out so there's really just a small area um along 55th um that could potentially be eligible as well there is a third area down there so there's one in the light green to the left and then one part of the purple to the kind of Middle top right a lot of that purple is covered up by one of the bubbles but sort of what's outside the bubble and darker purple could be eligible and yeah the darker purple is what's eligible the this blue here is really um setbacks taken from Recreation locations so that was added on top of the ineligible areas to make it clear that um those were Recreation facilities and then at the bottom there's just a a tiny bit of purple and that's eligible too kind of middle bottom that that's right along

[121:02] 55 um all right and and if the zones the buffers were widened to say 2500 would would that render all of those still eligible for for some amount of development attachment the does um minimize those areas further I I think it actually if there was a multi-well site done up by IBM it would rule that out so then you basically would be looking at this area here as an eligible area okay and and if we um you know if if litigation happens and you know maybe it's shown that 25 200's an okay Zone to do say or we wanted to come back there's is there anything that stops us from widening this in the future to 2500 if we wanted to well I mean we are proposing 2500 for any multi-well site um there's nothing that stops us from making you know

[122:00] changes to this uh legislation in the future obviously this is a very evolving industry and as Elizabeth noted you know Boulder County adopted regs in 2020 they're already looking at some updates to it that that might be necessary so it's not uncommon for us to look at what's going on in the industry and figuring out where to apply best practices uh in the future okay those are all my questions thanks so much Carl Nicole and then Warren I just had a quick question about the um sort of process if this passes so you know we pass this ordinance and then somebody puts in an application to do um oil and gas operations in one of these eligible sites um at that point the uh Community has a chance to weigh in on concerns they would have about that application is that correct I just I'm sensitive to the fact that um I don't think any of us here live near any of

[123:00] these places that would potentially be in there and so I'm thinking about Folks up in Gun Barrel for example um just what does the process look like for people to give input um on applications they may have concerns about in the future so if if a site was chosen by an applicant and they wanted to explore doing it they would have to do a pre-application with the city so we would consult with them first and then if they were to move forward they would have to do a good neighbor meeting uh and we would have to notice u a mile from the site all those properties which is much greater than what we normally notice uh in applications so then they would be brought into the Good Neighbor process even prior to an application and then after that the use review would come in and we would do public notification you know posting in the paper and online um for when an application comes in we would do a completeness check on all of the studies and plans and applications

[124:00] and we would figure out who the referrals would be I think we might have to consult you know with the county about some other resources that might uh be able to review some of these plans to advise staff as well and it would be a pretty involved process but yeah people would be notified um and they would have access to all those materials thank you and that may be a point um to Rachel's point where um environmental Advisory Board could weigh in or other boards could weigh in as well is that correct um they're not required to to weigh in uh through the process um we certainly could you know notify members and thank you so much for clarifying that Lauren um thank you I just had a question about that map again um one of the things I just wanted to clarify when I

[125:02] read um the proposed language it sounds like the 2000 foot buffer is not only from residential units but also from residential zones is and residential zoning does this map take into consideration um because it just says that it's the buffer from units um could you clarify that for me Carl I knew we had language in there about residential zones but I I think it is from zones because in a in a zone that there's the potential for units to be loc in the future yeah there we we looked at a number of different communities and they you they have variations of that language but we decided to include that okay and then obviously there's the reverse setbacks piece which would apply to any new development if a operation

[126:00] was put into effect thank you okay I'm not seeing any other questions so I think we can move forward to the public hearing we have two people signed up to speak so with that number each of you will get three minutes and uh Ryan are we all right to just dive into that we are okay so first is ly seagull and then Alejandra major or M Lynn I'd love to say 5,000 feet but I'm gonna say we should shoot for 2500 um and that most possible robust regulations um you know we're going to have a big wind tomorrow you know that changes the Dynamics of particulates

[127:04] moving through our region and our atmosphere I mean that twister yesterday went up 30,000 ft you know and like then these things redisperse we need to get done with fossil fuels yesterday um and anything that any of you can think of to make this as possibly robust as possible would be my interest in seeing the the betterment of the health of the people of this community so ask your consciences what would work and what would pass because climate changes are coming and we need to be agile to be able to accommodate to it it's the Tipping Point

[128:01] is near thanks thank you Lynn Alejandra hi there can y'all hear me yes perfect well good evening council members my name is Alejandra major and I'm an associate director for the American petroleum Institute API represents all facets of the natural gas and oil industry in Colorado while we appreciate the city implementing regul regulations after an 8-year moratorium we are disappointed with the lack of Outreach to Industry during this process with that said API Colorado has concerns we would like to see addressed before final adoption while Senate bill 19181 authorized local governments additional regul regulatory Authority the bill likewise imposed constraints on a local government's latitude in regulating oil

[129:00] and gas operations a local government exercise of its Senate Bill 181 Powers must be both necessary and reasonable and designed to avoid minimize and mitigate impacts that cannot be avoided just as importantly the local government must explain the reason basis for its regulations API Colorado would like to take this opportunity to highlight our concerns particularly regarding the setback provisions and proposed fees the proposed regulations include setbacks of 2 200 ft exceeding those set by the cogcc additionally while the proposed regulations include an exemption process the variance criteria differ from the cogcc and is significantly more limiting than what has been established lished by the commission API Colorado urges the city to re-evaluate this section and ensure the proposed setbacks are reasonable and necessary harmonizing its regulations with the state with regards

[130:01] to the oil and pollution tax we note the recommendation to tax at the full amount is a significant concern when coupled with the proposed fees and costs in these regulations We Believe fees need to be reasonable and considered within the broader context in addition API color has several overarching concerns about the insurance Provisions within the proposed regulations the cogcc is currently undergoing a financial Assurance rule making and we believe it's premature for the city to move forward with this proposal before fully understanding the outcome of that rul making API Colorado strongly encourages the city to align regulations with the cogcc to the extent possible to enture a seamless process that allows the city state and operators to work together together again we appreciate the opportunity to comment this evening thank you for your time thank you Alejandra okay and that's everyone that's signed up uh so r that that

[131:01] brings us to the end of our public comment I believe thank you very good so then we can return to city council for discussion would anyone like to kick us off Mark sure why not um given the the need to Institute these regulations and the and the Jeopardy that would attach to continuing the moratorium I'm going to be supporting this bill without Amendment um but I would propose that we um examine where amendments might be possible after we adopt the the uh the ordinance um so as you know setbacks whether in fact we actually require a variance process um the term uh before we before reapplication is required and other

[132:00] things and um you know we might have there might be places where we have to um change regulations in either direction more or less um aggressively in order to uh fulfill the requirements of 19 181 um but I think the need is is here uh at the moment um we need to have something in place uh by the end of the year and so without change I'm going to be supporting um this proposed ordinance and again I I compliment staff for doing a terrific job and bringing it before us it's not perfect uh I don't think it ends the conversation um but it's more than good enough and and uh it will have my support than that Mark um anyone else Lauren and you're

[133:00] muted thank you um I I agree with a lot of what Mark just said um I did have a slight edit to some of the language around air quality that I was interested in proposing um it's more of a clarification um adjustment than anything else um but I would also be open if that causes a hiccup in moving this process forward um I would be totally open to having that be part of um a longer term vetting and posible adjusting of these regulations well Lauren you certainly have the the right to Pro propose an edit if you would like to so if you wanted to read like the existing language in a proposed change feel very very free so this is item 12 B12

[134:06] D2 the um item two which is the use will not cause or contribute to the exceedances of the national ambient air quality standards cause degradation to air quality or and this is the part I had issue with compromise the attainment of the ozone standards for the denro Metro North Front Range ozone non-attainment areas established by the um EPA so the thing that I was interested in changing is where it says compromise I wanted to change that to contribute because I wouldn't want since it's likely that we will will be in nonattainment I wouldn't want it to be argued that because we're already in non-attainment of air quality

[135:00] that this isn't compromising that ability um instead I would change it so that it's both um or to contribute to the non-attainment of ozone standards do so you rattled off that is and I'm trying to find it I haven't succeeded yet do do you tell us again where that language is located um it's in the air quality standards so 9- 6-12 B 12 D2 you wouldn't have page number for that I don't off the top of my sorry I should um I wonder uh Carl or um or Elizabeth do you have any um responses to the Lauren's proposed

[136:00] language I'm GNA defer to Elizabeth or the attorney's office on that change I'm happy to to respond to that um unless the hell I would like to no okay um so I guess um a couple things I um so if you read the whole paragraph in total it begins with the prohibition of causing or contributing to exceedances of the ax and so and that language is straight out of the Clean Air Act um that is the standard um for when an air quality monitor actually registers a concentration um that's over basically it's a three it's a average actually of the three High highest um but the three highest basically if the average is over the standard within a year then that constitutes an exceedence so we do have that causer contribute language in there and then of course the next Clause is

[137:00] that um the youth also must not cause degradation to air quality of a more General prohibition um and then the the language that you're focusing on is the or compromise attainment and so we currently in Boulder are in nonattainment of the ozone standard so um I I I think I understand what you're saying that the language compromise attainment actually um isn't very clear because currently we are already in non-attainment I might actually if you're open to it suggest a slightly different um slightly different language perhaps rather than saying or contribute to nine attainment because we already have that contribu language in the beginning of the paragraph I might say or interfere with attainment of the ozone standards so it would be a Prohibition on the youth interfering with attainment and as I mentioned we're

[138:02] currently in nonattainment so any thing that were to make it more difficult for the city and actually just this entire um area in the Front Range to attain the ozone standards would be contrary to this um provision yeah I would be open to that modification thank you this this is packet page 162 by the way of the packet I did just find that um okay thanks I think we have Rachel and Matt have their hands up um thanks yeah we if we're done with that Amendment um so I guess I I'm hoping that I guess I'm I'm probably where Mark oh Rachel I can't hear you uh oh at the sort of Rachel Rachel we lost you for a second you said you're probably with Mark and then we lost

[139:00] you that must have been you know joyous for you mark like it just it just hung there then for 30 seconds and we're not always on the same page so isn't that nice um that I think um I I would like to see this pass by emergency so that we have something in place but then I I would like to get something scheduled to have a another look at it um maybe under just some less pressured situation I'm surprised like I I um was at the state capital testifying on on Senate bill 19181 with a lot of Boulder rights like this is a subject that people care deeply about and and we only had two people um testify tonight at the public hearing so I feel like maybe um Outreach was not I don't maybe just wasn't robust or we could do it better but I think that I'm surprised that there wasn't more sort of Engagement around this um and would love to see it go to the EAB um for a weighin

[140:00] before it could come back to us just to see if we want to make any changes so I'm supportive but would like to see us look at it again in the near future thanks mat yeah unmuted all right good um and I follow up on on Rachel a little bit and and also kind of a little bit what Mark said um I think in terms of checking in I'm curious since so much of this has to be or at least what was stated was that it it's in alignment with the comp plan and that it's the comp plan values that sort of keep some general guard rails in alignment with what we're trying to do here and given that we have a comp plan coming up in about four years I'm wondering is there a way do we need to formalize or is there a way to sort of bake in that at either the regular comp plan or its midterm sort of updates that that's when we would would sort of create the intervals to check in or or relook at some of these regulations in sort of those incremental stages rather than maybe just arbitrarily checking in when we want but just kind of bake that into a process that we already know

[141:00] coming down the pipeline um and that just sort of makes everyone more aware of it I'm wondering is that a process that would be normally done in regular comp plan review or or or the interims in that sense just so it's sort of set and we know when it's coming and everyone sort of plan around it Carl do you have a thought there I mean I think it's a good idea and I think that that that would be a good interval to look at it I don't know that we always involve evaluation of of regulations at every comp plan update but I think something of this scope you know where there is potential for environmental impact it does make sense to to look at it again so I like that idea very good well I'll I'll call on myself here and just say that I really appreciate all the hard work that that staff has done as I said before it's very complicated topic Elizabeth I appreciate you um contributing to that uh you we we've had a moratorium on oil

[142:01] and gas development for a very long time and uh you know extended it after 181 was passed to kind figure out what regulations might look like and you know while while we um are not given the ability to ban oil and gas development entirely I think we have hit that point where where we have rules that are as stringent as possible as Allowed by 181 um that that allows to protect our citizens from potential adverse impacts so I think we're doing as much as we can here so I'm I'm supportive of of moving forward with this tonight um so appreciate all the work again that everybody has done if nobody else has General comments someone might want to put a motion on the table and Lauren if you did want to make that Amendment you might make the motion and the amendment uh up up to you sure I can make I haven't paid a motion yet um like this um let me find the

[143:01] language in the I have a different document open or if someone wanted to pull that up so I could just read it that would be can we get it up on the screen Maybe there we go so I would like to motion to adopt by emergency measure ordinance 8514 amending Title 9 land use code to the boulder revised comprehensive plan 1981 to add conditional use standards for oil and gas operations amending title three revenue and Taxation to to the BRC 1981 and to adopt an oil and gas pollution tax repealing ordinance 8435 and setting forth related details I would also like to include the amendment

[144:01] to 9-6-1 12 B12 D2 um item number two and then do I read the whole as proposed or with it would probably be helpful to to get the read the revised language of at least that section okay item two to read not cause or contribute to exceedances of the national ambient air quality standards cause degradation to air quality or and Elizabeth could you remind me what your prefer interfere with or interfere with the nonattainment or sorry to interfere with the attainment of the ozone standards for the Denver Denver Metro North Front Range ozone non-attainment areas

[145:01] established by the US Environmental Protection Agency I second all right and seconded by Nicole I'll just note that BRC is bolder Revised Code just to get that on the record but very nicely done thank you Lauren we have a second by Nicole um Lauren do you want to speak additionally to your motion um I think it's already been said I really appreciate staff's effort on this um I look forward to having something in place for our community um and talking more about how these changes how it might get updated in the future to meet with um progressing standards good Nicole any extra words no well if nobody has anything else to say we can go ahead and have a vote uh lee is this a roll

[146:00] call it's an emergency so I imagine ask me yes it is sir it's the adoption of an orance and we required twoth thirds majority because it's an emergency exactly thank you Sandra all right we'll start with mayor protm fr yes council member Joseph hi spear yes wallik hi Wier yes Yates yes Benjamin yes rocket yes and fards yes yes mayor ordinance 8514 was approved by ordinance adopted by ordinance by 2third majority vote as amended okay thanks everybody for that

[147:00] it's good discussion important step forward all right now we're moving on to a matter from the city manager yes sir that's item 6A on tonight's agenda and that matter is Communications and engagement update on C correspondence process format and Council engagement subcommittee update great thank you so much and I know that uh Sarah Huntley our director of Comm of communications and engagement is going to take us through this I'll just note that this has been a topic of um of a considerable amount of conversation particularly with how we get so many constituent emails and trying to make sure that we're as responsive as we can it is a kind of a stop Gap measure as we move forward and fund a complete constituent relationship tool in the future but um I'll defer to Sarah as she explains um the item and look forward to your comments thank you Nara Emily could you

[148:02] pull up our presentation please while she's doing that good evening Council um as nura mentioned my name is Sarah Huntley I'm the director of communication and engagement for the city I'm join joed here tonight by Darren jackaby who is the digital transformation senior program manager I believe Darren can correct me when he um does his presentation if I got his title wrong but he's been a terrific partner as we've looked at some digital solutions to some longstanding challenges with how we communicate with constituents in the city of Boulder this presentation actually tonight if you could go to the next slide Emily actually covers three distinct areas um and I'm going to walk us through each of the three um and have questions and discussion points after each of the three areas because I think that will make for a more efficient conversation this evening the first part of the evening will be spent talking about the proposed changes

[149:01] that staff is recommending for Council correspondents and that's why Darren and S to join me his team has really worked through a um proposal for you that we would like to share um and we will talk about what that all entails in just a few minutes I think that will probably be the most robust part of our discussion just to Pace ourselves we have 90 minutes set aside we're hoping we might be able to get this conversation done in 75 minutes so that you all can have an earlier evening but we'll want to think about how much time we're spending on each of these three sections the second section is a check-in on chats and walks with Council as well as a pilot idea for 2 by two office hours and this section comes to you directly from your subcomittee members um Bob and and Rachel who serve on the engagement and welcoming Council environment subcommittee and the last item it also comes from the subcommittee members and it is a potential alternative to the several evenings of

[150:00] council interviews that you usually set aside in March uh for board and commission selection so we're going to go through each of these one by one if that is okay with you mayor and with the other members of council this evening do okay next slide please Emily so I'm going to turn over to Darren at this point he's going to walk you through what we were trying to do as we looked at a new way of handling uh correspondence the city council and then he'll walk you through a proposed systems change um we'll definitely have time for questions and discussion at the end so Darren do you want to take it from here Emily will be happy to forward your slides when you get to the end of each one yep that's great um good evening everyone as Sarah said my name is Darren jacobe and I work in the Innovation and Technology team um and I oversee our digital transformation team um so uh what what what we are sharing with you today is are some improvements to the city council communication process and the objectives of this

[151:02] project um that we have really focused on our our threefold one is to um provide communication transparency so provide as much transparency as possible in the feedback and questions that are coming from commity Comm members um two make that as easy to use for community members as possible um and number three is Drive um some improvements in efficiency as it relates to how those Communications kind of move through and and get um addressed um in the back end both by City staff as well as as city council and so there are two short-term improvements that um I will outline today um the one um is the the new web form which I will show you here in just a second um and as part of that new web form um we have um taken some steps to improve the transparency um on the open data aspects of of Outreach um that were a little bit

[152:01] um lost and and um confusing as community members were previously um doing this work via email um so if you go to the next slide um I can walk through the form so on the left hand side is is the form um this form will um be on our city of Boulder website um and it will um I'll talk through the kind of main sections of this form so at the very top um there is an ability to choose um either English or Spanish so a Community member can choose their language of preference as they as they move forward and the uh form will will kind of toggle between English and Spanish depending on what is chosen um the next section of the form really outlines what the form does um and provides some transparency and open records and notifications so it talks about um the submission and and what will happen as as it relates to um not only Kora but and on all of our open

[153:01] records and there are links to that information so that community members can see that um and can read that and understand that um the next section just provides some um basic information so uh name um organization if if it is applicable and email address which um gives uh all of us a way to um respond back to the person's feedback Andor question um as well as a phone number if the uh Community member would like to do that and then the next section below um um gives the the Community member a chance to choose a topic from a drop- down list um right now it is a single um option so um the Community member can choose one um and that includes includes topics that are specific to City departments as well as kind of hot topics around the cities things like pending Council action City budget um and what have you and we can change those topics um as we move forward we can keep them up to date um and always

[154:01] relevant especially related to those hot topics um once the Community member has chosen the the question or feedback um topic um category that most um um closely aligns with what they're talking about or what they would like to talk about um they have the ability to direct their submission and there are two options there um one is a city staff member responsible um and those are um typically chosen if the question or feedback requires some immediate attention um say like a pothole um or a tree limb down or something like that um and then there's also an option to um send the submission to the entire city council um and that is typically if there's feedback or if if there is a question related to something going on around the city um those are not mutually exclusive so um both can be checked um so you can send your submission to to one or the other or both um and then at the bottom is just a free form text field um

[155:02] where a Community member can can type in their comment question or feedback um there's also the ability to add a file um if if necessary um so that that can be attached um so that is the overview of the form so it is a fairly straightforward hopefully fairly easy thing for a Community member to go through and very easily submit their their feedback or question next SL about features of so some of the things we were trying to address um and the the features of the form help us address is we get um an incredibly high volume as you all know of emails to Council in the city of Boulder about three years ago I did a PE peer review survey and I called other cities along the Front Range and they were like just absolutely astonished when I told them the volume that we were seeing of emails um so we have a very engaged public which is terrific but often those emails

[156:01] languish and nobody's very sure about who's picking them up or who's responding to them so the benefit of the form in terms of asking people to choose a topic is that it allows us to funnel the email more specifically to the person it needs to go to and Darren's going to talk about how this will work on the next slide but I just wanted you to understand that the idea is that department directors for example are currently seeing every single email that comes into the city we have a couple of new directors who were saying how do you keep up with this email and how do you find the emails that you actually need for your department with this kind of volume so what this will do is funnel it to the department that needs to see it as well as make it available to all council members if the constituent is attempting to reach their elected officials we certainly don't want to get in their way of the abil their ability to do that but we're hoping that by having people help us choose the topic we can help have the system help us get

[157:01] these assigned so people can respond to them in a more timely way so I just wanted to provide that context um Darren if you want to go to the next slide you can talk about how this funnels information out from here um so this this outlines um how how that kind of backend automation Works um so on the left there are there are the two options around submissions so if submissions are directed to City staff um the form will automatically route to two different groups um so depending on the topic the either the department director or the designated City staff for that topic um will automatically get that email and that same communication will be copied to a distribution list that includes the city manager the deputy city manager and the communication and engagement director um submissions to city council uh will go to the shared city council

[158:00] inbox um council at bouldercolorado.gov um and they will also that that communication will also be will also be copied to the distribution list that includes the city manager Deputy city manager and and the communication and engagement director um and I will say that all of this Automation and routing we can we can change that as we move forward we can um it's it's fairly simple for us to um to to make tweaks to this or changes to this depending on feedback but this is how um it is set up right now and this is what the recommendation would be um and on the right shows shows a a kind of a sample of what that automated Emil would have so it will have all of the fields and all of the information that was input by the constituent in the form um and then at the very bottom um is a is a link to composer response so within the email um there is the ability to kind of automatically bring up a response as well um which I will talk about in just a

[159:00] second um so if you go to the next slide I will show kind of what that response looks like so if the composer respones is checked um this is what will happen so it will bring up um an email in your in your outlook inbox um and again submissions that are directed to City staff um that email will come up and it will automatically populate the consent email address and it will also um copy anyone in the Departments related to that topic as well as the city manager um Deputy um uh city manager and the communication and engagement team so all of that will automatically happen um City staff will have the ability to to add um staff individ ually if they need to as well but hopefully that drives some some Automation and makes things a little bit easier for City staff to respond um the same thing or something similar will happen if if the submission was was directed to both the city staff and the

[160:01] city council um that automated kind of email comes up will will include the council at bouldercolorado.gov inbox as well as that deputy director or city staff as well as the city manager in communication and engagement and then in the Third Kind of iteration of this if the the submission was directed just to city council um a city council member clicks on that composer response um and we can we can make that um kind of whatever would like and and that is one of the open questions that we have is whether or not um the city council would like you just to have that go directly back to the constituent or if you would like us to add some automation so that it um includes or copies the city manager or any City staff um so that is one of the outstanding questions that we would love to get feedback on and we can make that change and make that happen um but that is what happens um once once

[161:00] the email has been arrived and it gives you some Automation and some ability to do that hopefully in a more um kind of streamlined way which makes it as as easy as possible to communicate back and forth um all of this communication falls under the open records um and all of the um the operational procedures that we have around that um are all still in place and will all still happen so there are no changes to anything there um we've simply just added this web form on the front end and added some of this automation to hopefully make things um a little bit easier um and much more streamlined so if you go to the next slide um as part of this we will be um closing down the council at bouldercolorado.gov um uh the ability for a constituent to send a communication to that email address and um when and because we know that that that has been kind of a longstanding way that constituents have

[162:01] gotten a hold of us we know that it might take some time to to migrate and move and get comfortable with this new process and as a result we've set up an auto an automated response um this is that automated response that that essentially thank thanks the constituent for reaching out lets them know that we are no longer using this email address for for um Community input and directs them to the to the online form um so hopefully this will help with the transition um and get people used to to using this form as opposed to sending an email um and if you go to the last slide then um Our intention is to implement this system in January um we we have done all of the testing made sure everything works we simply just have to move things over into production um we can do that um at any time so we could do that at the start of the year or we

[163:00] could also do that um starting the Monday after the um City rec council city council Retreat that's happening in January um and with that I would uh be happy to take any questions any input um or feedback that that any or all of you have around Emily would you mind taking the um slide Deck Down um just so that we can see each other terrific Aaron do you want to call on folks or would you like me to I can do that so Bob and Nicole and maybe uh when people talk way in on timing your preferred timing it seems like a good thing to pull people on Bob yeah I I'll start with that class question I don't have a preference on on timing other than the fact that um as Darren just um set forth people will start getting automated response when they write to council we get um you know several hundred emails a week and so um it's going to come as a bit of a surprise to community members and so I might suggest regardless of when you launch this that there'll be some robust

[164:01] Communications out to the community um so the first thing they some of them don't hear about it is is the bounce back I do have communications plan Bob I I I knew you would Sarah I knew you would great uh so you guys decided the time as far as I'm concerned a couple questions um in in the form that will be used um are community members going to be limited to the number of words or characters that they write we we do get some pretty lengthy emails which is great um and I just want to see if if community members would be um curtailed in what they could communicate with us I I believe that um based on feedback from from our prior kind of run through of this that we removed any um any limits so um so there there is no limits to to what can be written in that comment box great thank you Darren I think that's a I think that's that's wise um second I have two or three questions and I'll yield the floor um when um first of all when council member if if if the

[165:00] Community member wants to direct their communication to council as opposed to a city staff member um will what we receive look a lot look and feel a lot like what we get right now which is an email from um the um the the resident or the Community member with the the content of what they have to to say to us is is that right or is it going to look look and feel a little different than the emails we now get um it it will be an email it will look and feel a little bit different just because it's the the email will will essentially be a transcript of the form of the information that was filled out in the form um so it won't come in paragraph form like you like you might be used to it it'll come more in blocks um based on on that the pieces of the form okay and and will those um those emails that do come to council if if the if the person the writer checks the council box um will those emails um they'll sound they look look a little bit differently but will they reside in our inbox so if

[166:02] we want to go back and refer to them later on they'll they'll always be sitting in our inbox yes great and and then then similarly if if a council member decides to respond to that Community member um I assume that we can kind of Click some sort of reply button is that right yeah so so in the email that comes to you on the bottom will be a kind of click to respond and that will automatically bring up an email in your inbox again um and we can set that up so that it only has the the community members email address and you can manually add whoever else you would like or we could we could automatically add people if if that's something that you're that you're doing on a consistent basis like every time you're you're you're copying someone we can we can do that for you if you would like great you anticipated my next question actually which was you know oftentimes we get emails uh from community members I know you're going to have a drop- down menu that's going to invite them to direct their emails to the appropriate staff

[167:00] member but but sometimes community members don't catch that or they're not too sure who to direct it to and often as council members we are um redirecting a community members inquiry to the right staff members which we're happy to do so for example somebody had a question about how to sign up for for a Parks and Rec course we might redirect that to Allie rhods or somebody on her team and so we could add Alli or somebody in Parks um as a cc to whatever reply we send back is that right yes correct great great there's also um on that drop down menu Bob and everybody else there is a I don't know or I'm not sure right and so part of the idea of having these emails funnel certainly the ones that go to staff and then Council can tell us if you'd like us to do this for the ones that go to council the funnel to myself or city manager or Deputy city manager is that we can help people navigate sure as well sure that's great that's great and then my final question is is um this is a great presentation by the way my final question is when we do respond or if we do respond regardless of whether

[168:00] we copy a staff member or not I assume that that outbound uh email that we send back to the Community member will then reside in our sent folder so we can go back later on and see how we might have responded to that community members that right yep that's correct it all it's going to do is just automatically bring up your your email um uh application and then everything you do in there will will be just as you do today everything will will reside in there we'll live in there all of your sent messages will will stay in there so no no changes to to any of that great that's all the questions I have right now thank you very much Nicole G Matt Rachel and I'll call myself thank you I just have a few questions um and I just also want to say thank you for all the work that went into this um Rachel Bob as well um this is this is really wonderful this is going to be a big change for the community but I think um it will be a very positive one and I I hope it does help us um get back to more of those emails because I could certainly spend 30 hours a week um just responding to

[169:01] all the emails that come in so thank you for helping us solve that issue um so one question I had there'll be a Spanish version of the form um if folks are writing in Spanish uh will we have translation support if they're is an email coming in to council or to City staff and I mean that kind of on the the front end as it's coming into to us as well as if we are wanting to respond um can we um can we get translation services in order to be able to respond yeah that that's a great question and I I I failed to mention um that um if if a Community member does choose Spanish um the the city staff translator will be copied on that so that you will automatically as part of that have that support um as part of that communication I want to caveat that that's based on the volume we expect at least as this program rolls out our program act our language um Access program manager Manuela sentes has kindly agreed to help be a conduit

[170:02] for that obviously as we incl increase our inclusive engagement and Communications opportunities for our community if that volume gets to be really significant we may have to revisit how we resource that but it is Our intention and it is built into the system for her to automatically get notified and she can provide translation assistance wonderful thank you um and I think I mean some of us we can probably hobble our way through um but thank you for having that available um my other question was about um as people are filling out this form submitting comments is there an option for them to send things or could there be to boards and commissions that might be relevant um as well so I think that sometimes that's you know a place a good place for people to provide some feedback um on current issues that are that boards are discussing so that would be a policy decision we could program that in I believe Darren there's no no reason that

[171:00] we couldn't some boards and commissions have centralized inboxes as I understand it some of them don't um my my recommendation from an engagement in communication best practices staff lens only is that we're going to be doing some um pretty robust efforts and having some conversations about how to bring some consistency to boards and commission processes later on in 2022 and having some consistency around how boards are set up to receive emails and how that all works and whether it's integrated with this form might be a point of good conversation then um but of course we're open to whatever Council would like us to do as we roll out sure it sounds like you have enough on your hands with the roll out of this so just something for us to think about um later and and that sort of just ties into just a broader question that's not really one necessarily for answering right right in this moment but just something to think about as we move forward with Community engagement um I mean I think oftentimes

[172:02] and this is where the system is responding to um we are people are emailing us to address an issue that's not really one that Council can address right it's more of a a staff person um who could who could address that issue um and so you know with the the engagement um plan that you talked about for rolling this out is there some education um for folks as well about what types of issues are best managed by um staff versus Council um those kinds of things just to help the community understand where they can get a a response to the issue that they're writing us about I think that could be a key part of the messaging that we put out with the announcement that we're changing to the system Darren's team was also kind enough it was very in very fine print in the screen shot you saw but there is a little bit of a explanation a cheat sheet if you will under each those by each of those options that explains the

[173:01] sorts of things you might send to staff and the sorts of things you might send to councel um but I suspect that there will be times people just pick both because they aren't sure and this doesn't preclude them from doing that and we will do our best to um help get people pointed in the right direction just as we currently do but hopefully we can do it more quickly because we're not looking at such a volume of emails coming in all at once yeah well thank you very much for um all all of you who've been working on this issue um and Aon to your question I would just say as soon as we can get the word out um so that we are going to so the community has time to process this change and act on it great juny Matt Rachel me terara Lauren thank you Aon I heard the presentation and I read the slides as well and I'm wondering from our previous Council

[174:02] email to this new format I still don't understand what is it that we're trying to solve because my understanding is that when an email is sent to All of of council we all get to see it and now with this new system what is it exactly concretely are we trying to solve so there um are two issues we're trying to solve in this portion of our um proposal and there's some other issues that we're trying to solve long term as we look at the implementation of a full constituent relationship management tool so in this iteration with this form we're trying to solve the fact that we have council members receiving a huge volume of emails some of which really could be handled by staff likewise we have about 40 City staff members who receive all these emails as well and so a department

[175:00] director is not just receiving the emails that are pertinent to his or her Department they're receiving all of the emails and some of them are about other departments some of them are simply constituents trying to talk to each of you about their position on an issue right and there's sometimes when staff responds to that we get responses back from the constituent saying well we weren't even trying to talk to you we just wanted to talk to our city council member so we're trying to make it more clear where the email should go so that the people who need to attend to them and hopefully respond to them can do so we're also trying to separate which emails could be handled by staff to try try to take the burden off Council a little bit and have staff step up and respond to service type requests one of the problems with our current system is that we don't really have an easy way to track data as to how many emails are coming in are really

[176:00] staff requests versus Council requests we sort of have a gut sense of it that there's some percentage of them that probably Council doesn't even need to attend to but we don't have a system for the um Community member to actually help figure that out so that we can help the community member figure it out now the other problems we've heard about the system and I want to be clear that this iterative change will not solve this problem but we are hopeful that a full constituent uh relationship management tool which we're in the process of developing and scoping now the other problem we're trying to solve is Council and staff members would really like to have a tracking mechanism on the back end so they know if a constituent has been resp responded to one of the things we originally proposed in this is if a council member responded to a community person who wrote in that we would CC all council members so at least you would know we can't do that because of the seral that creates a Serial meeting but if we had a backend system

[177:02] where all you would be able to see is if it was responded to you wouldn't necessarily be able to see the content because that would again get us into this serial meeting bind it would be really helpful right because I I think what council has told us is they hate the idea that somebody is taking the time to write and they get crickets back from the city um so we are really moving in the direction of being able to have a robust backend system when we made this incremental change though we wanted to make sure that whatever we were asking the community to do would look exactly the same now as it will when we Implement a brand new CRM we didn't want to take um the community through two layers of change so the form system will be the same system that we will have when we have this nice complex but easy to ous system on the back end that answers all of our questions um so we're not asking the community to come along

[178:00] with us for two waves of change thank you um so my understanding basically as part as this new interface you're likely to have drop down menus for each departments if someone just have a specific question for a department as to each of the Departments so that's something like 20 options and then we went ahead and already populated some of the topics we know we get emails about that are cross- departmental like encampments uh racial Equity policing um reform as opposed to just Police Department operations and those topics the beauty of it is if you have a upcoming Council discussion on a topic for example say CU South was coming up we could populate that and then those emails would go to the right folks okay um I think my only comment to

[179:00] this yes I think again as soon as possible um to get this system rolled up I suppose would be good but I think we definitely need to have a robust system so that community members don't feel shut out because of it's a new system that's being ruled out some of them may feel that hey you know I I don't understand it I don't know how it works I sent an email to councel now I have to use a different system so some level of Education I think if we're going to move quickly we're going to have to have some robust um advertisement to let the community know hey that we've switched to this new program um it's it it sounds good it sounds good I I I I again everything that you're trying to solve sounds you know important to community and being able to reach them and accountability and transparency so I think that's great um I was going to make a comment about

[180:00] something else as far as uh if someone wants to reach out to council members I I know that our information is online so I'm wondering on that page and uring that our information is there as well because I think sometimes community members just want to reach out whether it's to me or Rachel or just an individual council member and somehow has our information available for them because I've had you know community members reach out to me and say hey I have either the council address not necessarily a single council member or vice versa so I think having that all that you know the nine council members numbers there is also would be important and ensuring that this particular website is well integrated within the CD website uh how do I put it medium because I understand that's going to be its own Standalone but maybe you can

[181:01] integrate it where if somebody goes to one page they can see there's a button that will lead you to this particular page we intend for a very prominent button on the homepage also would anticipate that this would be prominently featured on the city council pages so any place folks might go and you're absolutely right juny we do need to continue to provide individual email addresses and there's nothing to preclude somebody from writing you to as individuals there's also frankly nothing to preclude somebody from putting in all nine council member emails but what they're doing is making it um probably less likely that we will be able to respond to them in a timely way but that's certainly their their prerogative as it is in the current system thank you thanks JY Matt Rachel me terara Lauren thanks Aaron um and and I I just want to compliment staff for embarking on sort of an evolution of communication

[182:02] engagement in public process and thank you Rachel and Bob for um having some Council Vision to sort of point in that right direction and and generally just the fact that we're starting to choose quality over quantity um and I think that should be pervasive towards all of our participation um given the volume that we get and where we're headed on issues um I I want to touch on a couple items and I do have a couple questions but uh as something that Nicole and Bob brought up you know Nicole's question about translation um I hope that we have such a volume that we have to re-evaluate the one translator to me that's a great problem to have and I certainly hope we get to that place because that means we're doing something right with regards to engaging communities who are normally marginalized and not the part of the conversation so um I hope for that um with regards to Bob's question I think it was a really general question from staff I prefer to manually add if that helps to add context um add people as is to the email chain versus having it a drop down or pre-selected or automated um I do like some of that flexibility so

[183:01] that's my preference um in terms of preference of timing I'm generally agnostic to when it happens but if I were to lean anyway I would say the sooner the better just for for people to have a greater time to adapt to it um um the question another question really comes down to uh attachments is there a limit on attachment size and formats or is it pretty standard like regular email um or or or would that be a pinch Point uh for people with regards to how they would attach any sort of documents files or videos or images or any content there is a um there is a a limit um and I I believe and I can double check this but I believe that we um put language in the format self that talks about the size limit so people understand what that is um but generally it would be very similar to if someone was trying to attach an attachment to an email that they were sending to you um there there are the similar system limitations right just in terms of how

[184:00] how big a file can be can be sent ah great thank you as long as it's pretty similar to standard that that that's helpful um and then speaking of sort of email you know as we would get this form to us and then we have the opportunity to sort of respond as a dialogue gets established will that show up like the regular conversation tree that we normally see because for me I'm used to tracking that conversation when there's a back and forth or does each time it become a one-off thing and then I have to piece together the narrative um as it gets established over two three four or five back and forth uh as long as as long as you're using the the email reply functionality it will continue to be an email string just like you have today so the the form will essentially generate the initial email your response would be the second and then if the if the constituent responds back to you it would just it would just create that thread just like just like your email does today okay so this again very much

[185:00] like we have today if people wanted to send a follow-up email and then you send a follow-up email and they send the follow-up email we're not asking them to fill out a new form each time okay that's very helpful uh those are my questions thank you appreciate it nice work me Tera Lauren okay I'll try and be quick because I know Sarah wanted to keep this to 75 minutes um so first I want to really thank Sarah and Darren and other staff that have worked um to get this um up and and ready for for um implementation I know it's been a lot of work so thank you very much um and you know it was supposed to kind of help three separate groups groups the the community community Comm unicate better for Council to um be able to feel field communications sort of um more efficiently and certainly for staff to do the same so I think you have um hit all three of those and I'm really grateful U my two questions there was um when we were looking at this one of the things that I did not like about writing

[186:01] to council as a community member was when you first started doing it you didn't know that those got published like you know every night to the web it was it was disconcerting sometimes like um you know on assault weon bands and things like that you didn't realize you were giving out your home phone number and and things like that so until after you hit send right until like a week later when you start yeah so I want to make sure that we had talked about there being like some you know flag before you hit send that tells people that that's going to happen is that did that make it into the final version that's that top transparency piece in that sample form Darren showed you so before you even put in your name there's a piece that says please understand that that this is an open record so um hopefully people will be seeing that before they hit submit because we get a fair number of requests after somebody has sent an email to council to try to go and redact their data and not only is that time intensive

[187:01] it causes us a lot of concerns from a public records perspective and so legal concerns so we're hoping that if we educate people on the actual form they can make it informed choice about whether they want to proceed okay so we had talked about like you know after you hit submit there was one final like you know you know this is an open record right and then yes submit so I don't know if that's too cumbersome but um that was appealing to me as as at least a firsttime user of of the system like if there's a way to say like if you're if you're submitting it for the 10th time maybe you don't have to do that but just to to flag that so uh I don't know how people would feel about that um and then wanted to verify you know when when you're talking about the the full CRM roll out down the line that we will be able to really collect better data than we can do now right we can see um the number of emails that all of council getting is getting and the number of emails that are being responded to and how many people are

[188:00] responding to each and things like that yeah yes so that is exactly right so a more sistic tool a constituent relationship management tool will give us the ability to to improve on the automations that are happening and also give us a lot more information and analytics to to understand what is happening and how they're how these inquiries are being handled um and that can also include kind of time to response so we can start to look at how quickly we're responding um we can make changes and adjustments in that area as well as look at the volume so that will be the kind of the next phase of improvements as we move into more sophisticated tools fantastic all right well I think that'll be great and and U very helpful to make sure that community members are being responded to by someone so thanks again for the work that's all my questions thanks Rachel okay me then ter Lauren Bob um so looking forward to this

[189:02] thanks for working on this couple uh well just one question now um when they fill out that form will they have the opportunity to do formatted text will they bold metallic Etc um that is I do not believe so I think it's just unformatted text in that content box um uh but I can go back and double check that if that is something that we can um accommodate we can certainly make that change yes I i' just say comment that that's something to do if we can um you know I don't know if that that widget is available uh for that form but I know some community members would like to be able to change their font sizes and bold things and etc etc it' be nice if we could have it and um so then I'll just say I think uh the sooner the better I would agree and also the I think if we phase something at the beginning of the year

[190:01] the email volume is a little lower in that first week or so so maybe wishful thinking so maybe it starts off a little lighter of course we have that meeting right at the beginning of January so maybe not but sooner the better anyway um and I would say that when we respond I would not want it to automatically fill in staff members names if it just came to council um let us CC folks that we would like to to CC would be my call on that one and I very much look forward to that later stage of the CRM when we can see who's responded that will be fantastic and glad there won't be disruption with that later change so that's all I got so Tara Lauren Bob so I'm very excited that we can go uh I guess we can see from the back end who already responded from Council so are you saying that we would know for instance Bob and Rachel already responded or we just know somebody

[191:01] responded well depends on how we build out the system right Darren but I want to be very clear Tera that's not on day one that's not when we implement this form that's further along when we have a CRM and maybe Darren can say what the capabilities would be yeah so when you have a CRM solution you would be able to see who has responded you would be able to see how many people have responded and if we like you could also see the content of what those responses are so there's a lot of functionality that we can um embed into a more sophisticated tool but to Sarah's point in this stage um we won't be able to do that unless they're copying you on on those email responses the reason why I'm looking forward to it is because sometimes I'll read an email and say gee I wonder if anybody responded is this you know Community member not heard from anyone and so it would be awesome for me to say oh they heard from four people they

[192:00] don't need to hear from me or they only heard from one people person or zero people I better you know make them feel like they're listen to and write to them so I am definitely looking forward to that function and of course as soon as possible just like everybody else said morning Bob thank you and I agree with everyone that I'm really excited about this and implementing it soon sounds great um I was wondering if we might be able to have both systems running at once for a minute like so that we could have this in place and maybe for like like the first month we at Council you know because like in Council meetings when we adopt new things there's multiple readings maybe we could just have it in our intro saying we have this new thing the new form go to the website um before we kick people out of using that and and

[193:00] I get that there's that I think that the um automated response is a great option if that doesn't you know if having them both up and running for a minute doesn't work um so from a policy perspective I'd be a little concerned about making a system that has now twice as complex for people to monitor in both places but I also don't know from a technology perspective Darren you need to repurpose that council at bouldercolorado.gov email so I don't know whether we can have things other things going into it can you answer Tech from a technical perspective Darren um I would need to go back and do some testing to make sure I I think there there is it I think we could do it technically um to Sarah's point I I there I would be concerned that you might be getting duplicates and then you know someone's using a form and emailing you and then now you have to requests for the same thing and are you

[194:01] introducing added complexity um but I think technically we could do it if that's something that that is desired I'm not interested in creating a lot of duplicates just if it's if it's something that seemed like it would be easy just thought I'd bring that up as a possibility um in in general I think that for my from just H you know seeing it in small writing it sort of seemed like maybe some of the text could use a little bit more love um just regarding you know saying that if people would want to sit email the city departments for something that requires action doesn't totally feel like that Jes with why people often want might want a city response on something and that maybe there's different language associated with that

[195:00] um versus the council one said if it's related to City policies and while that may be true there also are going to be questions related to City policy that might be more appropriately directed to staff so maybe just test running that a little or like I don't know workshopping that a little bit more also on the um automated response message I think that I I was trying to read through that quickly and there was text that was like you know copy the text that you had in your email and then it started talking about the form but it didn't really say like where to paste it and I get that that's but just making sure we're being really clear about what the steps are maybe there's a graphic I don't know it just seems like yeah making things as simple as possible for everyone um and then you also we're talking about in the drop- down having

[196:01] both topic areas and departments it seems like we those might want to be separate dropdowns like here's two options for the city like one because otherwise I wouldn't necessarily assume that I could email City staff about a topic area that just wouldn't occur to me as someone without like actually pulling it down um and so like saying here you could pick from these topic areas or here you could pick from the Departments without having to actually pull the drop down might be nice we can certainly talk about we'll do a little more workshopping on the Forum itself um with that feedback in mind and again I think it's amazing and I don't want to hold up making it happen so take all of what I said with a grain of salt thanks Bob then Mark yeah two more things U First Erin's response reminded me that that you all

[197:00] did ask a question that I don't think we've done a good job of answering which is your question was if a c member does write back to a constituent do you want um some staff members to automatically be copied I think one of the suggestions was the communications director Sarah and the city manager um I would recommend against that um because between the nine of us my guess is um you're going to get somewhere between 2X and 3 or 4X uh as many emails so I think you're going to actually defeat your purpose by getting copied on everything that we sent out um if we need to copy you we'll copy you but I wouldn't do it as an automatic response um and then second similarly um it would be helpful if uh and this is a separate exercise if if you could provide a little bit of a cheat sheet to council members particularly new council members but I've been on Council for six years and I still have a hard time figuring out who's in charge of what um because oftentimes we get community members who say Hey listen my snow my my street didn't get plot well now based on last week we know it's Scott um but but oftentimes we don't know who the right

[198:00] person is and of course Personnel changes and so I think Rachel and I sent over to staff a couple weeks ago a list of at least our perspective of 42 frequently asked questions of counsel I'm sure if you ask other seven council members they come up with a few more and if we could at least start with that list and say all right for this question this is who you contact for this question this is who you contact in some instances it may be the department director because that's what the department director wants which is just fine in other instances the department director may say Hey you know you don't have to bug me for potholes here's the person in charge of potholes if somebody has a pothole issue just send it to this person on my team if you could provide that to council um separate from whatever dropdowns there are in this form that would be really will because again I sometimes struggle and then I just default to the department directors which I feel bad about so if you could let us know who um the department directors would like us to copy if we do bring somebody in that would be really really helpful if if I just may add and I appreciate that and I love the FAQs that you already sent us I think that's great

[199:01] and to circulate that that'll continue to build I think that's a great idea we will be supplying Council on January 4th kind of a department in brief and that's where Department departments have been choosing who do they there are as you said there are Department directors that want to be um that want to be in the know directly about that and there are others who will probably add who to contact for potholes do this for um leaf blower complaints do that right um and so we will be sure to um we will be including that in our January 4th packet for you but thanks great thank you Mark let's finish this up okay just a couple things I want to key off something Lauren said um the form looks a little cold to me um it it it looks like um you're asking for a refund from a website um we're asking people to do more work but we're also looking to promote

[200:01] Communications and the process that we're asking people to go through in some respects to me is is contrary to our objective to promote communication we're asking people to do more work and make choices that I'm not sure they're going to be entirely comfortable making and and as Lauren said graphically I think that the the website could use a little dressing up to make it appear a little more welcoming um I'm also wondering and I I have no no basis for scientific projection how many people are actually going to utilize the drop down menus to pick department heads or other specialized people to solve their problems a lot of people a want a vent and they want a vent to us and there are some people who want their streets cleaned but they want to go right to the top because they assume we're going to get them cleaned they don't want to talk to somebody from a department so I'm wondering if we're still going to get in uh a great number

[201:00] of emails that come to us uh they ought to be sent to a department head but they're not going to want to do it the the the constituents are not going to want to do it because they want to hear from their city council person um you know we'll see as that unfolds but I'm a little fearful that that you know we may not get all of the benefits that we're we're hoping for here Sarah I don't know if you uh got some insight from your conversations with other cities um and want to invite you if that's the case but I'll just share with you Mark I appreciate that um having been in other cities where they use a form very similar to this I'll say it's a little bit of both by and large people want to go straight to departments that can solve that issue but certainly there are Folks at one event and want to have that be all and sometimes they actually want to elevate that so I I think it's a mix and I think it depends like on the um on the intention of the of the

[202:00] initiator of that email but my experience in other cities that use forms like this is that it does tend to eventually settle down and most of the operational stuff goes staff and um and then there's a mix of stuff that they certainly want it to go to staff but they want to make sure they're in my other cities that's been Ward or District Representatives knows exactly what's going on in their in their area so it's probably going to be a little bit of both Daren what happens if a constituent chooses not to make any options they just put their name their email and whatever it is they would have said in an email in the comment box um I believe i' have to pull up the form because there's been iterations but I believe that you have to choose a topic even if it is I don't know um and then you would have to click on at least one of the boxes on who to submit the form to um so I I don't know that you could

[203:01] just put your name and type in comments and hit submit there there needs to be just a little bit more context even if even if that context is I don't know just somebody who wanted to go straight to the top with their concern would say I don't know for the topic and click all of council and then they could put whatever their perspective was in the Box corre yes that that is what would [Music] happen Okay well that that was sorry Mark did you have something else no then I would just go back to the first point and say to the extent that we can make this a little more friendly in appearance um I think that would serve us well that's about it it's a great point do we have access to to clippy that little Microsoft paper clip from 20 years too no we do not on that note um but that was a good discussion we spent a lot of time on it

[204:00] because we spent a lot of time on email um so uh but maybe we can move through uh the next couple a little more a little more quickly terrific we heard the feedback loud and clear that you'd like it as soon as possible I do want to make sure that we can Institute and Implement our Communications plan I think we all agree that's going to be important we also heard that you don't want email responses from each of you to come to any staff members unless you choose to manually add them so thank you um Emily would you mind pulling up the slides again where we left off thank you you can go to to the next slide which I think is just a questions and discussion slide and so you can go one more slide forward please so the next item is um an area that we spend a lot of time talking about as with the subcommittee members is how do we um provide opportunities outside of your meeting format which is relatively um constrained in terms of two-way

[205:00] conversation right just because of the volume and the structure and the importance of staying on the task with a meeting how do we provide opportunities outside of meetings for people to engage with each of you um or a couple of you um and one of the things that we started piloting um preco was a chats and walks with Council program um where we would offer a few times a year I think we started maybe with four or six um we've tried different cadences um where we would have um council members usually two or three at a time sign up on a rot ating schedule to be at a particular location where people can drop in and have a conversation um the chats tend to be sort of in a fixed location right um the walks are while you're walking and we one of the benefits of those is that we're also able to highlight different

[206:00] projects or different parts of the city but in both of these programs they open conversations with community members they are typically facilitated by a staff member who also as a navigation resource so if there's an issue that comes up that really needs to then go to a department for followup that staff member can be that liaison the audience members establish the agenda they tell whoever's facilitating the meeting when they walk in the door what topic they're interested in talking about sometimes we've done this General audiences sometimes we've done it with a targeted audience for example one of our chats that was really popular was a Spanish focused chat um at um after one of the church services in town um so you can also just do it for a targeted audience we can make these bil lingual we have found that different times different days of the week different locations um I'm for people who um trying to avoid

[207:00] weekend times we have had quite a bit of success with weekend hours just because people have some more availability so we've tried this preco we kind of put a pause covid we recently did a couple of um chats we would like to get a sense from this new Council what the appetite and desire is for this type of a program so that we can as staff determine um do we want to do it how often do we want to do it what can we expect in C terms of participation to be very candid in previous years where we had you know as many as as one every other month it was sometimes challenging to get different council members to sign up and it goes to the heart of this um I think overarching issue of we have some um differences in situation for Council Members right some council members don't have a job other than being on Council some council members are working a

[208:01] full-time job while trying to be on Council so we want to adjust the Cadence of this to what you all think is realistic for Council participation and so um as part of this item we'd like to get your thoughts on chats and walks as a more formal program we also have one more item under this and so I think we'll get feedback on both of those if you don't mind so next slide Emily the other approach which is a either or or and or so we could do it with formal walks and chats or we could do it instead is the possibility of having less formal one-on-one office hours really they probably should be called two on one office hours because we're talking about council members pairing up perhaps and Bob and Rachel can speak to this in more detail because they were kind enough to start it up um just a few months ago to sort of see what kind of um um interest there might be from the community we are saying this would be

[209:01] less formal in terms of Staff support but we certainly would promote that this opportunity exists the sessions that Bob and Rachel held were at the Penfield Tate second I mean community building a drop in schedule and I think there's interest for our subcommittee members and I see Bob is has his hand raised so I'm hoping he can weigh in here to see if there's other council members who might be interested in this um do you have a thought on this well yeah let me speak to to both uh both of these formats um we we launched the first one the the the Chad with Council in 2017 actually came out of the 2017 election and a lot of good Community feedback comes out of Elections as some of you I'm just recently experienced in suggestions from the community and one of the suggestions from the community in the 2017 election was gosh you know standing in front of council and getting only two minutes of their time and no response back from Council memb is pretty unsatisfying it's of course it's unsatisfying for us as well and so one of the things we launched in 200 late 17 early 18 was this idea of chats with Council some

[210:01] have been fabulously um successful and well attended you know 20 30 40 people I think one one that Mary and Suzanne Mary young and Suzanne Jones did at the East Boulder Community cember cater had like over a hundred people on the other hand uh uh uh Aaron will remember that he and I did one at a synagogue one time and I think there was two people and then recently Aeron and and Rachel 91 at boka and there was only a small handful of people so you never know what you're going to get sometimes it can be very satisfying sometimes U it's um it's it's just a small conversation although even those are although those are meaningful as well they're relatively unstructured there is back and forth there's no time limit uh there is a staff member there to help facilitate uh if that's necessary especially if there's followup that needs to happen and then a couple of years ago we we added um a component where um you know you have it there a different Dynamic when you're walking with somebody you all know that and so we we um we added a um a different flavor and allowed a community members and council members to get together and and take long walks together in in

[211:01] community members neighborhoods and and talk about whatever was on their mind it wasn't limited to a tour of the neighborhood but it obviously served that purpose but then it also allowed neighbors to to to visit with council members about whatever they wanted to and you might think it's a little awkward but it actually works fine because uh two or three community members might be walking with that council members and a few people will be ahead and behind and then people kind of change positions and over the course of a oh 45 minute or hour walk pretty much everyone gets an opportunity to to talk to those council members so um there I actually find the walks even more satisfying than the the chats where we sit in a library or a church or synagogue or rec center and then finally um the oneon-one sessions um are another opportunity even less structured than the chats where it's just an open sign up a Community member can come in for 15 or 30 minutes or a group of community members can and Rachel's uh Rachel actually piloted this and and just share with what what there's on their mind um and so we designate a certain time where these two council members would be there

[212:01] 00 to 5: or maybe at Saturday from 2 to four or something like that depending on people's schedules um and doing it in a central location we started with the peni uh building but perhaps the library or Another Place could could could serve a purpose and I think you know subject to council members availabilities and interest I think we're just trying to give our community members um more access to council members so they can have a relatively unstructured and unfettered communication with us and then hear back from us so that's really the purpose here and I think what we're seeking tonight is really feedback from you all about whether this these are things that you want to participate in and if so to what extent so that staff can um can uh prepare appropriately thanks Rachel did Rachel I don't know if you want to maybe pile on to that yeah know you covered it pretty well Bob um I I will say that I've participated in more of the chats with Council from the Community member perspective than I have from the council perspective um and and

[213:00] they are really valuable I think as a community member so I hope that people will consider um participating and um uh pairing up with someone to do some of those because it it is frustrating from the community side to as as someone said just get the like the wall after two minutes and no response and no back and forth it's it's really dissatisfying um so I also did Council um office hours I think right after I got elected I started doing them um and then I took them virtual and then a month or two ago talked to Bob about maybe just pairing up and doing them in real life again and I think those are um super valuable for community members and for council members to hear directly from people um Bob and I have only done I think one and Bob also has done his own office hours um I recall as a community member as well so um I I think it would be great if if if we had um if City staff could take that over and we could take turns pairing with different people and it

[214:00] wasn't just me and Bob um the only caution I would have is if it's not going to be um at the municipal building it should be somewhere that there's um other members of the public round and if it is at the municipal building it should not be after hours because I have tried that which is convenient for the community but um it was not a super safe thing to be uh by myself in the in the building after hours so I just think that staff will have to have some level of of um scheduling in ways that we are ensuring everyone's safety great thanks for that Bob and Rachel so I'm going to step in next and then I see some folks hands let me just um guide the conversation a little bit if we can go to the previous slide I think let's take these two things separately we've got chats and walks and Council and then we have the office hour idea and um I I'll just say that it seems to me that chats and walks is in my experience it's generally been popular and just keeping in mind council

[215:00] members that these would be optional to participate in so if you think this is the worst idea for us to do ever that's fine and just let us know that we should never do them but if you feel like well I may or may not have time that's fine you don't have to sign up for this so let me just put this out to see if if folks uh OBS to this and and if majority does that's fine but um anybody have any feedback that we should not do the chats and walks not I'm not seeing any any takers on the not and and so then maybe what I might suggest is Sarah rather than us all right now saying like oh I could do one a year or four or what have you how about we do a maybe we could do like a back an email or a survey or something like that that that pulls us for our relative levels of interest and availability that then could shape um how many of these we do on what kind of cadence Sarah would that

[216:02] work I think that's a great solution are council members okay with taking that approach okay great so look like we got that one done feel free to pop in if that was a little too rapid um in our next opportunity the next one then the the office hours let me just start I wanted to ask a question on this um is this like any frequency that we want I mean are we imagining that that you need to sign up for this on a semi-regular basis or I didn't hear anything about possible frequency I can tell you what we're doing right now which is um Bob are doing twice a month it okay I don't think could be anything I would think so and then maybe folks can weigh in on on this this is something I say I personally would would love to do but with my day job is not something that I think I could do on that kind of regular basis um so maybe

[217:00] we could hear from F because if we have at least you know you four or five or six four or five people that that that could handle this then seems worth doing um so maybe we can check in markk you've got your hand raised my first comment is a question for for Rachel um how did you find the participation on the one-on-one office hours were you finding it a productive uh use of time yeah it was definitely productive it um it trailed off during covid you know when we were on lockdown and I went to Virtual so um nothing is as as satisfying I think um you know on Zoom so uh but yeah before before we broke out they I had um pretty good attendance uh and I think Bob and I have had pretty decent sign up so far so um I think that it is it's a valuable use of time okay well then my comment is that I think these are both terrific suggestions

[218:00] um yes you know there are people who have day jobs and and may not have availability or family commitments and may not have the availability um for somebody like me whose day job is this job um I'd be more than happy to uh do chats and walks and and office hours um I think one of our um defects as a council is we don't U Get Enough contact uh with enough people you know that they're always committed people on any particular issue that will be there and want to talk to us but getting Outreach to uh the rest of the community is one of our challenges and anything that would help um ameliorate that situation I think would be extremely valuable so I I would be delighted to participate and I thank both of you for taking a look at this and proposing thanks Mark Taran then Nicole my first question is in regards

[219:01] to covid how do you navigate that if somebody do you ask them if they're vaccinated I mean how did you do that without putting yourself at risk or even them putting you at risk for instance so for covid because of covid we basically suspended chats and walks um um we did attempt to do a couple of conversations online so that's always a possibility we the period of time where we tried a couple of these things were in that really short window where things looked really promising before Delta hit so you know we wanted to be ready to go in person when it was safe to do so we obviously would have to follow indoor protocols that the county has in place and that we as a city want to make sure we're honoring um if we're holding these meetings indoors um and that may affect people's appetite for participating um but I think we're going

[220:00] to have to be in this space for a while where the covid regulations are part of our norm and we need to um adjust to them the good thing about the outdoor walks is that they're outdoor so correct that they also tend to be more popular not in the winter months so we would tend to in general anyway be scheduling those more for spring and summer and fall and hopefully by then we might be in a different situation but it's hard to say okay Nicole menen you um so the short answer to the questions is yes very I'm interested in in all of this um one of the things I'm thinking about is just looking at this from um an equity lens especially um these meetings the walks and I'm wondering if staff could kind of help help us connect with groups in the community that we might not be hearing

[221:01] from otherwise um because the one thing that I worry about with you know posting office hours and things is that they these are the the folks who will be engaged with us are the same people who are already engaging with us and already know how to contact us and how can we um you know for for those of us who aren't connected to groups and other groups in the community how can we Foster those connections and this feels like a place where staff could um you know with with all the connections that staff has really be helpful in that regard so just and that's definitely a lesson we learned in the first goor round that you saw many of the same people and that was why we had this some of the formats that we have tried that have been quite successful successful have been with targeted audiences or maybe Spanish first instead of Spanish second um and so you know I I certainly think from an inclusivity perspective we'd want to have a nice mix in any kind thank you I just love that idea of just meeting people where they're at rather than having them come to us yeah the the the ones at the um

[222:02] Church were extremely successful you we had large amounts of turnout from folks who did not normally come to Council meetings it was phenomenal Spanish first ones uh Lauren in the mat I think you know Erin although you talked about talking about these separately for me they're both competing for the same amount of time um and so for me while it's sort of going to be if I do more of one it's going to mean less of the other and so for me my balance is pro like I'd be more interested in the walks that's probably the thing I especially given Co and the ability to be outside and all of that um but that doesn't mean I wouldn't be interested in doing a couple of these a year it just probably is going to be um fairly minimal for me at the moment yeah makes sense good point

[223:05] Matt uh well thank you and I I I want to highlight a little a little bit of what Nicole said and and sort of build on that a little bit you know I I to me I'm gonna well for one I'll just say I'm open to both uh my work is sunrise sunset in the middle of the night taking pictures of the stars so um daytime stuff is fine for me to get stuff done so I have an opposite Cadence of some um in that sense um but I like both I I want to make sure that we're reaching new folks and to me that's how I measure I'm going to be measuring the success of expanding our Outreach to talking to new people people I I'm I'm concerned that all we're going to do is just hear more of the same from the same people and and and multiply that and I'm not sure that's going to build on the qual the quality of our engagement over the quantity so I I'm okay starting this but I want to know that we can quickly adapt throttle or or Scuttle um if if all

[224:02] we're doing is just repeating the same messages we're getting from the same folks um to me that that's that's a bit concerning and not really additive um to Nicole's point of reaching folks that are otherwise not normally heard from that's good Matt um and I I'll just jump in here and say I mean it sounds like we we have strong support for both and it's really more of a scheduling question than anything else is what I'm hearing so we might take the same approach here Sarah as the other one in terms of how many people and how often and figure out a Cadence but Rachel I see you have your hand up yeah I'm just GNA say um two things one um we've always had for office hours translation available as well and that's on the sign up form um and you can choose your language and um can have a ask for a translator to be present so that's built in um no one has used it yet though um and and so far we have not had the city promoting office hours so I don't know how that will impact um who shows up but in my experience I'd be curious what

[225:00] Bob's was it it is not um it's not people that I usually hear from I've met a lot of different people that way so um however they're finding their way it is it is reaching people who aren't necessarily um commenting at open comment or or emailing all the time so yeah I'd agree um you know it's a great Point Matt but um you know I I started office hours in 2015 and some weeks I would see 25 people in a week um and it was it was um different people uh and then when we started doing uh chats at Walkman call a lot times we would do them you know at mobile home parks and churches um Mary and I did one after salsa class at a Rec Center it brought all sorts of people that we never ever heard from before yes there were certainly people who show up on regularly on Tuesday nights who would come to those as well but and that's fine but um probably a significant majority of them were people were just first-time communicators with the council so it was it was really uh refreshing and reassuring and uh I'd

[226:00] encourage everyone we've been doing it for for more than four years I'd encourage everyone to try it and I think you'll be pleasantly surprised to to meet people that you've never heard from before especially the walks the walks are because they're neighborhood focused um and typically people in a neighborhood show up um and uh you you see lots of people you've never never heard from before never wrote us emails never showed up on a Tuesday night so um it's it's a really great uh way to hear from for people that are not uh are not typical communicators to us that was my experience with the walks as well so Sarah is that good enough for to move forward with it is so let's um let's bring our home with with the last Topic in this presentation um Emily would you mind forwarding the slides please you can go on more okay so I'm probably also going to let Bob and Rachel explain their Vision on this but just quickly I will say that currently um I think most of you are aware either because you've been through the part interviews as council members or you

[227:02] perhaps were on a board and commission we set aside a number of evenings in March where um applicants come in go through interview processes with council members um pretty time intensive the suggestion from the council subcommittee and I think they actually referenced this a little bit when you looked at your calendar a couple of weeks ago in one of your meetings that they would like us perhaps to um try something different as soon as this upcoming March when we have our selection process where Council invites applicants to complete a short at home video responding perhaps to the same questions that they would have responded to in the interview um we would need to from an equity perspective we've identified that we might need to give some drop in hours where somebody could come stand in front of a staff camera or staff phone um and do their recording in case they didn't have the ability um but videos would be submitted by a certain date you'd still need to watch these videos because it's an

[228:01] important consideration process but council members would be able to do this on their own time rather than setting aside these long hours of time where where community members have to come to a physical place to meet with you um so I think the subcommittee would like to see if council is interested in trying this we're coming to you on this issue now because we'd want to provide this um guidance about this process change in advance of the recruitment period which actually starts very early actually think the end of this year and into early next year in anticipation of a March selection process so Bob and Rachel would you like to add to that sure I I'll give it a start I I I've always I've always hated quite frankly our our interview process we we line up six or eight people on one side of the table and Council sits on the other and we we Wing off a few questions often not really well reflected questions each of the um applicants

[229:02] here's the other applicant answerers so if you're the first person you're really nervous because you just got hit with a question if you're the last person and pretty much everybody down the line has already said what you were going to say um and and then there's an equity issue because sometimes people can't attend the interview at the time that we designate for the interview um and I I think in in my six years on Council I'm not sure we've ever appointed somebody who was unable to to attend which is really really unfair and so the idea is is to to craft some thoughtful questions let people go off and either um on their own or with the assistance of our city staff to prepare short two or three minute videos and respond to those two or three questions um and they'd be unique because no no one else would would hear th those answers and we would go off and and listen to them it's not going to be a huge Time Savings for us because we're still going to have to listen we have about a hundred applicants typically for our various boards and commissions so we're going to have several hours worth of videos to watch but I think the quality of the

[230:01] responses are going to be more thoughtful and um more unique I talked to I talked to a guy who was going to apply for one of our bsy commissions and I bounc side you off him he goes oh this is great because I'm going to sing my answers he's a guitar player so he's going to going to craft songs in response to whatever questions we post to him and sing his video which is great um and so when you hit that video you'll know who I'm talking about so I think this this is Rachel's idea I think it's a great idea it's going to take us about as much time as before but we can we can do it on weekends we can do it on evenings we can do whenever council members want to see the videos we'll we'll have a deadline and then we'll give us each of us several weeks to watch those videos before we make our selections and I just think it's going to be a vast fast improvement from the the process we've used um for time in Memorial that really has been not a very good process Rachel this is your idea and I love it Bob um I would just add that obviously we would still post the videos um to our website or whatever so that they'd still be available to members of the public because right now it's a a

[231:01] public interview um process so um just wanted to to flag that I don't think we'll be losing anything I think it I'm hoping it will be much better for staff who's not going to have to um uh support three nights of interviews as well as the um applicants themselves the people like like Bob the people I've talked to about this possibility have have all been very receptive and and uh two people said that they were more likely to apply for a board if they could submit a video rather than um do the sort of stressful five in a row six in a row interview so nothing else to add thanks uh let's See's our order here we've got juny Mark Tara and then I'll call myself thank you eron I'm a little bit conflicted by this um I think I'm still one of those people who value in-person interviews but I

[232:02] understand the value of giving people the opportunity to just submit something to us I'm thinking other things would have to work out as well and I think it was mentioned earlier for instance the length of the videos um but I wonder if this could be hybrid as well where if some people want to send in a video they could as opposed to showing up to meet council members or I mean we also have zoom how about a virtual interview so I'm just I'm just not sure if I'm 100% sold on this idea of just sending a video because it's just it it feels slightly robotic and not as dynamic as when you talk with someone you know when you try to get to know them through conversation and it's going to be more scripted in a way because they have the

[233:02] opportunity to do take after take as opposed to hey this is very organic you having a conversation with someone um yeah that's my thought on it right now I'm just not sold yet but I'll just listen to the rest of council and maybe I'll do one over by the end of the night me Mark and ter and me having been both a participant and a judge at these casting sessions I my only comment is hallelujah um there's something so artificial as Bob mentioned about um attending these things where the first person is sweating his their response because they're not sure how to answer the question by the third or fourth answer um they're keying off the earlier answers and responding accordingly this is let's everybody Express themselves in the manner that they want um it allows us to pick our own times for reviewing these um I think

[234:04] it's it's fantastic I I you know I'm I think it will create a less artificial um uh means of our assessing the various candidates um except perhaps the guy who's singing um that might be a little more problematic um and let us consider them in our own time frame and then come together and and and make some decisions on them I I I really do think this is terrific and um I support it wholeheartedly thanks thanks Sarah me and Matt I actually don't like this idea and one of some of the reasons are kind of with juny first of all it sounds to me like it's an American Idol interview I mean you get the opportunity to show you're you're really performing and you have all this time to

[235:00] think about what you're going to say really your husband could or what your partner could write it for you so you don't really know who wrote it it doesn't even it doesn't even it can be not authentic actually so would have the opposite um it would have the to me it would do the opposite of what we wanted so there's not much I I would actually not apply to a commission because I'm so petrified to to make a video of myself the whole Channel 8 thing just nearly pushed me over the edge to tell you the truth but I had to do it so I did it but I was shaking so uh I would rather zoom in the sense that what I absolutely did not like about those interviews and I mean did not like because I was one of those sweating people is people would ask me a question and I didn't even know what the question was I I kept saying what do you what's the question again in them repeating it didn't help me so if I was first it would be a disaster but if

[236:00] I was second or third I could figure out the question so what I would rather would be some sort of a short Zoom interview where even five minutes where we're given the questions person's given the three questions ahead of time so they don't have to be nervous that it's like a what's the opposite of a Tome test you know yeah so it would be more like a take-home test where you you can you can not prepare but then somebody can ask you a question or two so we can make sure we're getting the authentic you so that's my take on it thanks Sarah uh me then than Nicole well richel I appreciate you bringing the idea forward and and Bob as well um I will in no way claim that our current process is an ideal process I I can't say I'm I'm a fan of this revision though I I do think there's a value to having both the written and the interview components you get a sense of people in different ways from the two you know one of them they've prepared

[237:00] the answers they've they've done some research they've written it up and in the other one it's it's unscripted um you know they're they're you hear their authentic ideas as they're kind of crafting them on the spot so the if we if we do the spoken interview that's pre-recorded it it's just like the written part except they're speaking it instead of writing it right like that they they got them in advance they think about them they write up their answers and then they speak them into a camera and I don't think that that adds a huge amount of value in terms of our trying to get a sense of them as individuals you know we we'd miss out on those individual ual interactions where you get a better sense of people's values um and and approach to to to speaking to people and how they interact which I think is valuable and there is also that I think um Equity component of the um how much time people would have to devote to that so people you know we we get a lot of folks who are um retired or

[238:00] semi-retired and and have the time to to apply and serve on boards but I think this would help that people who were in that situation their life could spend a a long time putting something very polished together and so the inperson interviews are a bit of an equalizer that way and and while I appreciate the fact that we would give folks help in technology I would still be concerned about the barriers for folks who would be very comfortable recording a video for themselves and folks who would have no idea how to do it or couldn't do it and might feel uncomfortable about um then going in and then they'd be shaky and they deliver it what what have you so I I I I'm I'm happy to talk about other ways of revising the process because it is definitely imperfect in the ways you all have laid out um but I I would not I wouldn't go to this one one one thought um Bob you did say that I don't think we've ever appointed somebody who couldn't be there I think you're right about that uh one small thing would be to allow folks to to record a video if they um if they

[239:00] absolutely couldn't make it you know as a as a an opt out thing but um but but I wouldn't do it for everybody okay thanks for bearing with me I've spent a lot of time applying for boards and listening this thoughts okay uh Matt Nicole Lauren and Mark thanks Aaron um you know I mean it you know I'm looking at two two things one is is this just general simplifying process and is there or is this sort of adapting through covid or both um I I I'm I'm Al I'm struggling to sort of see this pendulum swing that we're going to go strictly to sort of the technological iCal solution because to me there's an equity issue with regards to so many who are not comfortable with technology and and to me the best solution here especially given that we Face an anemic response to some of our boards and have to extend time open or get the same applicants over year in year out I would say that we need to find a way to hybrid

[240:01] this I like kind of where jun's going that why can't we offer both especially in these difficult times that we're in and and then maybe as settles out we clearly see that one is the preferred method um but I have a hard time just sort of going straight to the technological one um with without then alienating another folks because we want to cast as wide a net I feel and get as many applicants the fact that technology means that we might attract some new ones great but I don't want to then lose some on the other side because we're we're we're not having some inperson and giving that flexibility as well thanks Nicole Lauren mark thank you you I'm going to Echo this um sort of desire for some kind of hybrid thing and I know that you all have thought about this a lot more than I have let me just tell you the things that are standing out for me as really um things that are very appealing and things that I have a little bit of concern about um one is I love the idea of moving away from group interviews I just I think that is um a really nice

[241:00] thing to do um and I understand that if we were to move away from group interviews and not have some sort of process where we can watch things offline um I'm not actually sure how we could do that um you know realistically with individual interviews for so many people um I think you know the the thing that I'm trying to understand is what is the benefit of doing a video versus say an audio recording or something like that um if you know someone um were just to be able to call in and give responses um something like that if I I don't I don't know if there's benefit to video versus um the audio call and um oh and then this was just a general question about the process that may not fit in here but just are there objective criteria that we're scoring people on um because that that sort of influences my um perception as well about how how to get responses from people okay thanks Nicole Lauren and the

[242:05] mark So I agree that moving away from the group interviews to me makes a lot of sense and I also but I do like the offthe cuff nature of the current process I think that you know Aon what you brought up about having a recorded portion and a more like seeing how people are in the moment is great um but the disparities of not having the same amount of times to prepare or you know I know I personally would get fixated on every little detail and would go sideways fast um so I think I I don't know I was sort of wondering about because right now we're in a zoom world right everything you know the a lot of the boards are meeting virtually and things like that and it's pretty easy to do a zoom recording and so I wonder if it's maybe like a planning you know one of us sort of

[243:00] saying hi having a few words asking the same question to each person individually in like a one-on-one Zoom that's recording that then we all share and all look at so that there's kind of there is that off-the-cuff portion to it um but we could also help like you're sitting really far back from the camera maybe you I don't know it can help people balance some of the um really big issues potentially that's just a thought thanks Lauren Mark ter yeah I think Nicole is correct in in suggesting some sort of audio alternative if you don't have time you don't have comfort level or capability to to do this as a um as a prepared video I'm not concerned with the the possible artificiality of this it's no less to me artificial than what we get um at our meetings all we're testing is the capacity of an applicant

[244:02] an applicant to to respond Under Pressure that's not what we want to get for our boards and commissions we want to get people of judgment and not everybody with judgment um is as comfortable in responding in a pressurized environment to a question that they've just heard that those are not the qualities I think we we would value most for most of our boards and commissions so I think moving away from uh they said it's like a casting couch um approach to to boards and commissions to something where people can be a little more thoughtful uh I don't think somebody applying for planning board is going to have um their spouse or roommate or friend um compose their video for them could it happen sure it could happen um but I I don't know if that would be more frequent or less frequent than

[245:00] our appointing somebody who simply was glib in a moment of high pressure um and and turned out not to be a person of judgment when actually served on the board I I think we're testing for the wrong qualities in the way that we do it and anything that will get us closer to um at least seeing and hearing what somebody actually feels about an issue um without and having the clock ticking and and you know sitting there sweating that that they're answering in the correct way uh I think is beneficial so I'm still enthusiastic about this proposal thanks Mark terara then Rachel first of all Rachel and Bob thank you so much which I forgot to say but I need to tell you how happy I am how much thought you put into this I'm going to go with Lauren's idea first of all when it comes to being on a border a commission how you act with other people how you treat them it's a group setting so it is pretty

[246:01] important how you can relate to other people so one thing you miss in those videos is whether or not you can relate to other people whether you're going to take over a space you know a a border a commission it's it it's all people working together so if somebody can't work together that can really throw a board or a commission so I like the idea of these one-on-one taped discussion with one of the council members right so now everybody doesn't have to be there the questions are given in advance so there's not the pressure of spontaneous thought which has always been the hardest for me and then you get to see that person reacting to with discussing something with another council member and you can see how well they get along with people to some degree so I like that idea the best I think it it it'll show the personality part as well of the person which is to some degree actually uh

[247:01] important On the Border commission thanks Sarah Rachel yeah I'm just going to follow up on something that um Mark said which is um you know the the degree of sort of authenticity and what we're testing people for and I appreciate the way he said it it's um I think a lot of what we do we do um you know think through things in advance and we know what we're going to be discussing in advance and I don't think there's some value to like you know if if you put me on the spot right now and ask me a question I've never thought about it and I answer it with with no input from experts even and and no no you know uh I don't know you know you'd like to think when we're when we're asking questions about a board that we're asking like you know something that of course anybody applying for that board would have thought about but that's not always true so um it I think that if if people are critically analyzing even if they're getting help like I'm sure that most board members do

[248:00] um get help on on you know from staff members and and community members before um speaking publicly about things so I don't know that we lose much in in um having people get to think about it and and have crisper answers um anyhow I I'm not opposed to the the zoom questions I I don't you know there's there's some thought that like we're we're seeing how people work in groups and stuff but it's really it's it's this it is sort of a robotic process already like you sit down you go through everybody gets asked the same question you're not back and forth It's not a discussion it's just a question two minutes your time's up question two minutes your time's up up question um so if we're operating within that system which seems like the only system that's feasible with the volume of interviews we get um it is going to be sort of a an assembly line system one way or another so I think we're we're just kind of trying to figure out how do we want to formulate the assembly line in a way that everyone is most comfortable and we are um being most efficient with staff time with our time

[249:02] and with community members time and and I'm happy whichever whichever thing we decide just Bob and I were just sort of kicking around with our subcommittee like how can we make this better good points Rachel can you give us a quick speech on the how aners function in the Ecology of uh Subs Africa yeah how well are we all gonna do okay um Bob and then Nicole and then I'll offer a thought yeah um two things one I I wanted to kind of build on the suggestion that Lauren and and U Tara made I I think that's actually a good one and maybe it it um it fits with the point that juny and others raised about having a little bit of of dialogue and having this spe a little conversational but not necessarily having nine council members lined up on one side of the table and and however many applicants on the other side of the table and everyone hears everyone's answer and that is to do kind of one council member leading a boarding commission set of interviews um

[250:02] with some predetermined questions and then recording that so the rest of us can watch that it actually leads into to a recommendation that I I don't know if this is going to come from the engagement committee or the boards and commissions committee but um something we've been talking about for a few years and I think maybe we'll come to a head next year which is to have um uh a council each council member uh assigned so to speak um a couple of boards and commissions so Aaron would have two and Mark would have two and and Tara would have two and we would be kind of more or less responsible for those couple of boards and commissions to be available to them and and we could start it with this with this this interview process along the lines of what Tara and Lauren suggested where where Lauren you know is responsible for two boards and commission she comes up with the questions and she interviews um each of the applicants it's recorded um and the rest of us can can watch that so that hybrid might be um something that we want to try whether this this year or or in 2023 and then and then um after

[251:00] Nicole and anybody else speaks I wonder if we could kick this back to um to staff to Sarah and and see what um what staff thinks about uh their preferred U method would be Nicole I just wanted to Spotlight for us um Mark's comment U which is I think spoton um in that not only U with this kind of process where we're giving people time to think about their responses benefit everybody um it's a it's something that makes um these applications accessible to people with learning or attention disorder to people who deal with mental illness like anxiety um those kinds of things too so I understand that there is likely to be more work involved um by uh kind of doing it this way where we're having somebody um lead the interviews perhaps in this kind of hybrid model um and I think the benefit that we would all gain from that would be having uh the

[252:01] potential for a more diverse pool of applicants um who will not be held back by their ible disabilities yeah thanks for that Nicole I I'll just in in a little bit of a summary what I'll say is I think part of what we're strug struggling with here is that there is no um ideal way of interviewing 100 people for 20 boards you know with with with nine people right like like in without spending you know weeks and weeks of time right so I I think we're we're hitting you know the difficulties of of of the inherent difficulties of the situation and every approach has trade-offs so like it's your point Nicole like being able to pre-record might um privilege some people with more time like I said but having an interview in person makes it almost undoable or completely undoable for people um with other issues right so um that that's a great point so that anyway so they're trade-offs so I I I was going to go where where Bob was

[253:00] going which is um Sarah I wonder if we could turn to you we've clearly we have a diversity of perspectives but there are some I think common things that we're striving for and you know the this idea of of a some kind of hybrid you know um like several folks have said that idea of a council member interviewing a group you know with predetermined questions that seems like it has some some promise and some likes potentially but I wonder if we could we could go back to you and um and maybe in conjunction with Bob and Rachel um you know try to work out a revised proposal that kind of gets to some of these comments that we've had what do you think about that so I think we've definitely gotten some valuable feedback on some of the features that you don't like and some of the features you would like of a different system um I'm very reluctant to just commit on the spot to doing multiple systems or some hybrid approach as much as we love providing people with options the more options you

[254:01] provide the more staff implications and resource implications there are for that so I'd want to go back and be able to talk talk with my partners and so perhaps we could take some of this feedback and go back to the subcommittee and I could go back to some key staff partners and see if we could come up with something I'm a little concerned that um if we're going to do something different I'm getting direction from the clerk that we would need to launch that when we announce the new process in the January so we're a little bit under the time pressure but I'd like to have some time to ponder what we've heard tonight before I commit that makes sense I've got Mark and Rachel um a heretical notion um not every board and commission is as significant as every other um have we ever given any consideration to having a subcommittee of the

[255:00] council uh in effect vet the the applicants for some of the Lesser boards to make recommendations to us um in effect to spread our resources a little bit and not have each one of us participating with a 100 applicants for 20 boards you wouldn't do it for planning obviously you wouldn't do it for tab but we have a lot of boards and commissions and I I would be very comfortable if you know Nicole and Bob or any combination of two council members were to vet some of these other commissions and say it is our recommend a that that the following two candidates be appointed is is that and then we could ratify it um some extent one of the the problems with our process is it is enormous commitment of time and again I'm not sure that we're getting um full value in terms of the process that we're using at the moment so so I don't know if that makes

[256:01] any sense to anybody but uh I don't know that a full Council has to be involved at every board and commission again some of them are are more significant than others so I just Chim Mark that that in my experience I don't think that's been talked about uh which doesn't mean it it couldn't be but it is I don't think it's been thoroughly discussed before s have we ever gone over that idea in the past I I can't speak with historical knowledge of it I do will just say that we have a lot of proposals that we've heard from community members as well as from staff on ways to improve the boards and commissions process and there are other proposed changes like do we really want as many boards as we have should we be taking a more um more scrutinized look at how many we have who's going to select them should does it have to be the full Council or could there be an

[257:00] alternative so this is um sort of foreshadowing I think some really interesting conversations that we're likely to have have um I think because there was hopes of if we were going to try something different we would try it with this selection process that's why we brought this particular one to you early but we are going to have a more holistic conversation and I think it will be very interesting to hear where people um feel like we should be going that that that's helpful to hear that we'll be talking more about this before too long I feel like we should wrap up soon but Rachel and Tera yeah we're just going to say um in terms of um following up maybe this should go to the boards and commissions subcommittee that is newly seated rather than to engagement subcommittee which is me and Bob so I just want to offer that up I saw Lauren with the hands thumbs up ter what do you think yes so what about that for a Next Step then is Sarah like to for you and

[258:02] and your staff to think about you know how you might put together a process that incorporates the the various feedback that we've been given and then reach out to Taran and Lauren um as the boards and commission subcommittee which does seem like a good place to discuss it um to go over you know thoughts that you have about a step forward I think we could probably do that I would need to work with the staff members who support that um that subcommittee but I don't think that's a problem at all great Terry did you have anything else the only thing I was going to say in the mood point if I'm going to be involved is um that asking for the questions in particular I wonder if it makes sense to add ask the particular board for commission so let's say we ask Parks what two or three questions do you think we should ask when I think of some of the questions that I was asked you know I don't I won't repeat

[259:00] them but some of them weren't really didn't help Parks you know didn't help to what what I would be able to give to let's say the Parks Board so a question to for me to you all would be does it make sense to involve the particular board and even ask them what's even one question that you think we should ask the the uh the person that is uh applying for the board I don't know if that makes sense that is very similar to a recommendation that a community group has made to improve the process is to ask the current board for ideas about questions and and how to evaluate candidates um again I think that's something that's going to come up in this more holistic conversation um but we can the boards and commission subcommittee will learn all about all the proposals and be very key partners and helping us figure out what to bring to C the full Council and when so I look forward to that conversation great all right well why don't we wrap this up I want to thank uh

[260:00] Bob and Rachel again I mean you you identified that the current process was really flawed and uh you know brought forward a promising idea and we've had a robust discussion and hopefully um we'll get from here to a better place with these interviews so thanks again for that okay I think that closes out our presentation Emily if you wouldn't mind taking down the slides um we really appreciate your attention and your feedback we've heard a lot of great input and we will um take it to heart and try to come up with a plan okay thanks Sarah all right well we got a couple things left it's getting late so let's see if we can be Swift with these we have a matter from the city attorney about the uh voter approved initiative of the Humane clothing act um sandre you talk to us about that yes thank you so much mayor I really appreciate the opportunity and I'll try and keep it brief as we are reaching or approaching the witching hour so um the purpose of this item is to provide council with an update on the Humane clothing act um the author of the

[261:01] initiative reached out to CAO and indicated that he would like a small change to the ordinance to address a potential preemption issue related to compliance with state law CAO supports that change and um in addition to that a representative from CAO attended the November chamber meeting where the business Community raised questions and identified issues related to the fur ban um the biggest concern seemed to be an an inability to address the existing inventory that can't be sold after the effective date of January 1st one way to address this would be to extend the effective date out to a reasonable period of time so that business owners would be allowed to continue sale of those band items and deplete their inventory this change would provide a reasonable grace period for business owners um and then with respect to the issue of enforcement it's not uncommon for the city to provide the community

[262:00] with a period of time for education and warnings prior to enforcement of a new law City staff recently met to coordinate on this matter and we are proposing to provide either a 30 or 60-day education period um during this time Evette Bowen with Community Vitality will work with the chamber to develop an FAQ and webinar to provide Clarity and address business owners questions in addition um during this education period no citations will be issued in the month of January CAO will bring Council um an ordinance Amendment for consideration that would address the petition committee's concern and also address the business community's needs by extending the effective date to provide a reasonable grace period to allow businesses the opportunity to sell off any existing inventory that they have on hand the extension proposed um would be

[263:01] either 30 or 60 days once this new effective date is triggered warning would be provided for a short period rather than tickets and as some of you know the Authority for Council to make amendments to voter approved initiatives is found in Charter 54 which allows amendments to be made so long as they do not alter or modify the basic intent of the ordinance or are necessary to come into compliance with state or federal law there is no case law on the definition of basic intent so it's difficult to say how much change is too much however I think that if Council were to take a conservative approach to any changes such as the ones that I've outlined tonight um there shouldn't be a legal issue so with that I'll bring it back to council thanks for that update Sandra are you looking uh for feedback on that or is this just an announcement of the

[264:00] approach that that you're planning on taking you I think it's a little bit of both I I I think that um we would like some direction from Council if the proposed plan doesn't sound um good okay thanks uh Bob juny Mark and I'll call myself yeah this is I guess is a question for for Sandra since sounds like she's been talking with the proponents first of all I think it's really clear for important for the community to understand that this law was not written by Council it was not written by City staff it was a petitioned initiative um by a group of residents that was um written in their own language and presented to the voters and a small majority of the voters approved it so we have we have what we have and now it sounds like we have people who wanting us to do some cleanup on the one hand it sounds like the petitioners have some um problems with the language that they actually proposed to the voters they've asked us to clean that up which I I think we can do with

[265:00] their consent uh and now we've heard from community members particularly uh business owners and the Chamber who are looking for some sort of um extension of enforcement forade I'm not sure the council can tell staff what to enforce what not to enforce but we heard a requests for enforcement moratoriums ranging U from three months to 12 months this evening I guess my question to Sandra is Sandra is is there a a trade to be had here in other words the applicants or the petitioners have said geez we the language was not as good as we we could have made it and we might have some conflict with state law here uh can you can you help us can you fix this for us and then we have other committee members who saying can we suspend enforcement for 3 to 6 months or 12 months I'm not sure Council can do that without their consent because of the intent requirement um under Section 54 but could we go back to the petitioners and say gez we'll we'll fix your language but would you stipulate to a three Monon or six month or whatever it is a a a non- enforcement period or

[266:00] or the effective date delay delay uh in exchange for us fixing your language is that something that we could negotiate with them I don't know if it would necessarily be a negotiation but we definitely intend to go back to those petitioners and ask them for their input um and I I believe that um it would be helpful to have their support in terms of what it moves forward so I I you know I absolutely intend to Circle back with with those folks to to do that had some clarity Bob because because i' I've been a I've had I've had some of these conversations so I just want to maybe help address that um so um so I I've talked with the the petitioners and and some of the business owners I was on that meeting with Luis Toro um and and the boulder chamber they they they acknowledged that that this measure was largely symbolic and they had absolutely zero intent to have this hurt any

[267:01] businesses um and so they they've expressed to me that they are okay with the grace period um so that that that to me gives gives I think us a lot of freedom in which we can provide that without um implicating section 54 in a way that that would be detrimental to our processes or any legalities um I think it's a matter of what is that grace period number and I think we're I think where the conversation is settled is somewhere in that six to nine month time frame I think that's where all parties have sort of said they're comfortable somewhere within that range um those are the conversations I've had with with all parties involved so maybe to help sort of narrow the scope of where we're leaning but those are the conversations I had but I just want to sort add that context for you Bob and and Sandra as well that's really helpful Matt thanks so much thank you Matt uh juny Mark and then myself thank you Erin I think um Bob asked my question I think that was exactly my question uh whether we will

[268:02] be working with the petitioner and also the business Community to come up with an you know the right amount but I I think I just wanted to clarify because you mentioned a 30 to six 60-day education and then that means that you know we would stay any enforcement between the 30 to 60 days and then are you saying that after the 30 and 60 days then we will have negotiation and find out where petitioners stand as opposed to just have a nine months stay right away I is there a question to me juny yes okay then um my response would be that those conversations would happen right away there's no need to wait um and I I think that it would be important to get those things ironed out as early as possible because um the idea was a

[269:03] proposal was to bring forward an ordinance Amendment as soon as possible in the New Year and that would have a new effective date and so that's the the date that whatever date that it might be is triggers everything else so there's an an education period that would be 30 or 60 days and then um once that effective that new effective date is triggered then warnings would be provided for a short period of time rather than tickets okay thank you I I just want to say that um I would support the amendment submitted by the petitioners but of course I would also want to support the business community so I think it's a matter of finding a balance as opposed to you know you do this for us and we'll do this for you um because it's important they passed this

[270:00] initiative and it was supported by community and also we have to protect businesses in a way way um also that is reflective of our values in the community we don't want them um to lose their business just because of this initiative that just passed so um allowing working with both the petitioner and the businesses to come up to a an ideal uh to protect them for the next you know three to six months I would support that as well thank you Mark than me then Nicole I would be a little more robust robust in the um effective date I would do it nine months to a year uh limited to inventory acquired before January 1 somebody wants to buy more inventory that that's going to be prohibited by the statute knowing that the statute is in effect I think that's that's their risk but with respect to existing inventory I would I would really like to

[271:00] give them as much uh lead time as possible uh in order not to be stuck with it at the end of the day and um with respect to fur products those my guess is those the velocity of sales is probably not that great um and so for me it would be nine months to a year um for that effective date and I think that's what we were hearing from businesses tonight and I'd like to be supportive of that thanks Mark um I'll chime in and say Sandra I think uh the approach you're taking is a good one thank you for bringing that forward would just say that um 30 days might not be enough time for that education period um you know I'd hate to have to pass something on emergency at a special meeting because it took a little longer to to implement the next ordinance um so maybe 60 days gives us a little space really glad to hear that the organizers of the petition uh uh process are open to you know some

[272:00] collaboration here so that's good news so it sounds like we have a solid path path forward education period followed by ordinance that makes the changes petitioners request plus delays the effective date um by some number of months and then we can move forward into full implementation after that so sounds like a great approach Nicole great thank you um so I I really like the idea of giving folks some time to sell off the inventory that um they have already purchased um that seems important and um I think where I'm struggling a little bit um is that that just a couple weeks ago we were having a conversation about um formally versus informally uh pausing enforcement related to a ballot measure that voters had um in that case uh rejected um in this case they approved it and we're talking about putting in place a formal um moratorium to kind of overturn what the voters decided and um and again I just want to reiterate I am supportive

[273:02] of letting people sell off their inventory I think that's critical um and I'm just wondering if we could kind of take a similar approach where we just kind of ask that people are not in that that staff is not enforcing this and N I don't know maybe you and Sandra could speak to to this but does not enforce it for 2022 I mean can we do that kind of thing um it just it feels uh like a more Equitable process given our discussion a couple weeks ago just to treat the business Community the same way that you know we we treated um other folks who were interested student occupancy reform and I'm sorry I said those words we're probably going to get lots more emails well so I'm happy to try to respond to that and and um I appreciate your question Nicole I think that um in some ways we're talking about something different because this is a um an initiative that was brought forward um um by the community by residents and

[274:01] um we actually have direct Authority and and constraints on what the council can and can't do with um an initiative that has been approved by the voters and that direction is found in that Charter section uh 54 that I mentioned so I I really feel that we need to follow that and and and because of that um I am recommending a conservative approach to any changes to that um ordinance because I don't think that our Charter allows for anything more than that thanks um Matt I see you got your hand up yeah maybe just some clarification um as as I sort of understand it this education period is in many ways to just cover the gap of what is currently the effective date of

[275:00] January 1st 2022 and in light of us not having the time to pass an ordinance ahead of that we need this education period to cover the Gap until we can pass an ordinance to create the grace period which then allows us not to have to enforce the very law so I I I see this that that in my my understanding that's the mechanism to buy us the time to get the ordinance to then have the grace period in which we can sort out the language changes and make those opportunities get the ordinance done or is it trying to be done in one package that its grace period and um language changes to the ordinance Allin one fill swoop but either way needing to provide that sort of statutory Gap in terms of first second reading of an ordinance sometime in January or early February and covering that effective date Gap that currently exists so so it's it's twofold it I think you're you are on the right track

[276:01] it is to address this grace period in to allow for an effective date that provides for that but it is in combination with the education period um that's necessary for and and as I've mentioned before it's not uncommon for us to take the approach um to provide that education period so that's an administrative function under the city manager's Authority and um so it is in combination I think that um to provide some uh security perhaps for business owners it's important to try to get those changes made as soon as possible um and that's why I had recommended bringing something forward um sometime in January but um you know if we're just talking about making the change that the

[277:01] petitioner asked for and then a providing a grace period perod then I don't see an issue with doing that in January if council is contemplating making additional changes which I don't recommend then we would need additional time to vet that although I don't think I've heard anyone proposing additional changes at this point can I just add too that um and I appreciated the question Nicole I I think it's slightly different situation because one was something that passed that we actually have to act on versus something that had not and had it passed we actually would have been in a different situation coming to council with some additional conversations about how to inforce given the constraints as well so putting that aside I'll say that we have talked as a staff team too about a curing whatever flaw the petitioners may think there is and then figuring out the C the capacity to enforce if that were an issue we'd be thinking about that as well this is a situation where

[278:01] we actually don't think there's a there's the volume that people think is going to be problematic in this community and I know that AET bow and our uh assistant city manager is also working with the business Community because one of the first things I think we have to do that will settle everyone down in terms of the confusion is just to find some things because the language isn't as clear as it could be and I think once that happens then I think it'll be clear the small percent of folks that will be impacted and then we can talk a little bit more about what that recommendation is about grace period and enforcement and what that looks like so I think by January we'll hopefully have worked with the chamber and some of the business Community just to address some of those questions because that will I think help mitigate some of the concerns that are outstanding at the moment good well um Sandra do you have the direction that you needed to move forward on this I do thank you so much I

[279:01] appreciate it thanks for looking into this and taking the feedback from the community and the petitioners and ours as well so we'll get this implemented over time all right we got one last thing about Retreat homework everybody's favorite word homework I think um this is from Rachel and and me as the retreat planning committee for this year so I'm going to take a shot at and then then Rachel's going to correct anything I got wrong um so just working backwards our Retreat is the um evening of Friday January 21st 00 to 8:00 p.m. I believe and then the morning of Saturday January 22nd from 8:00 we'll wrap up by noon we're going to be facilitated as we have been for many years by Heather Bergman who is just an excellent facilitator um and and so working backwards from there and starting with our first meeting at the beginning of the year on January 4th our first meeting of of the new year uh we're going to be presented a lot of material

[280:01] and information um uh we're going to have the responses from our boards and commissions on what they think we should be working on in 2022 and 23 our community connectors are going to do likewise and then staff is going to share share with us City staff's going to share with us those things that they're already working on either because of Staff initiatives or just carry over from the last Council and so I think at the by the end of that meeting on the 4th we're going to have a pretty good idea of what folks in the community at least the boards and commissions Community connectors want us to work on I think community members are already starting to weigh in through individually emails and then of course staff will tell us what they're already working on um and then uh the the first item of two items of homework will kick in two days later on January 6th um as you saw from your emails from Heather Bergman uh she's asked us each council member to list his or her top five priorities now these are things that hopefully you're already reflecting on but we we were asking you not to submit those in case there's something you hear from staff or the community connectors

[281:00] or boards and commissions um that might change your your top five priorities but uh but by no later than the 6th of January which is two days after our January 4th meeting we ask you that you submit to Heather your list of top five items what problem you want to have solved and what you would consider to be success in that work plan item Heather will then the next day combine these 45 inputs five times nine and undoubtedly we'll have some overlap which would be a great thing and she'll send back out to us those things uh hopefully something less than 45 items that we have come up with collectively or individ ually um then uh at the next meeting which was the 11th of January um each of us will have some time CAC will determine how much time but each of us will have time to present our five priorities um and explain them a little bit maybe answer questions of each other and um of and staff may have some questions about what the heck it is what we're we're talking about um and so we'll we'll clarify that and then uh the following uh council

[282:01] meeting on the 18th of January staff will come back and and scope some of these things for us um some of us may think that oh just this project will just be a small thing it'll be a real quick thing first reading second reading will be done and staff may say oh contr this is actually going to be a lot of work we have to do a lot of community engagement we have to do a lot of research and this is actually a pretty big undertaking so they're going to kind of try to start scoping these things for us on the 18th so that as we go into the retreat a few days later on the 21st we each have a pretty good idea of what people's priorities are and how much time they'll take how much work they'll take by staff and then the goal is to then take that big massive amount of work that we come up with wi it down at the retreat and also maybe um put some dates next to things is this something that we want to tackle in the first couple of quarters next year or is this something that can slip into late 2022 or into 2023 so that's one item homework the second item homework as as we typically do at these Council Retreats especially when we have new council members who have just joined us is to kind of get to know each other so one of the things we'll do on Friday evening of

[283:01] the retreat is introduce um um our colleagues to each other um and so each of us has been paired up one by one with um a a um another person I think we we tried to pair up uh new newly joined council members with people who have been on Council for a while and we ask that those two council members um go offline at their Leisure over a cup of coffee or or whatever they'd like to do between now and the 21st of January and get to know each other however you'd like to do that and be prepared at The Retreat on Friday evening to um introduce um your counterpart with maybe some interesting factual backgrounds but things that maybe people didn't know about that person um what skills and experiences they maybe bring to council to the community and then um some things that maybe your counterpart want would like to see accomplished um in the coming Council cycle and so that's really something that we ask you to do offline so those are two items in homework by the sixth of of January your top five priorities and and be prepared

[284:01] to speak about it at the 11th and then uh come prep prepared uh at the 21st with um an introduction of your counterpart Rachel uh what have I missed or what have I gotten wrong you nailed it Bob let's not make the meeting last longer than necessary nothing to add here any questions of Rachel and me about what is on the calendar what's expected well done well put great that's all we have all right Alicia did I miss anything do we have anything left no sir I think you covered it well and we are at the end of the agenda all right well with that I will adjourn the 39 p.m. good night [Music]

[285:03] everyone [Music] oh