August 6, 2019 — City Council Regular Meeting

Transcript

Captions from City of Boulder YouTube recording.

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[5:00] [Music] [Music] [Music] okay we're gonna go ahead and start this is a Beaulieu city council meeting out August 6 2019 Lynette will you call the roll councilmember Brockett Carl Jones here more so Nagel Weaver here yes young we

[6:00] have a quorum excellent you guys may notice that we're starting an hour late because it was national night out and so we went on out in pairs to visit block parties that are happening around town along with our police officers and firefighters to get to know community members more so because of that we are not going to have open comment tonight and we are gonna jump right into the work of this meeting so with that we will start your consent agenda tonight it contains items a through O so there's a long list a few of them a bunch of these our first reading for meaty matters that are going to be the subject of public hearings coming up in subsequent meetings so go

[7:04] ahead so I sent out a hotline this afternoon asking Council if y'all would be amenable to adding an additional option for the Long's garden preservation that would be of extending the point 1 5 cent sales tax and having the whole of the revenue for one year go towards the conservation easement okay so this is yet one more option out of there were 10 - sure I support Mary's suggestion and keep mine this is just first reading so I guess I think what Mary and I are asking for is if we're gonna pass all eight versions of - oh we're just asking like this for ten however many versions of - oh there are we're just asking if you would accommodate us and include what's on the whatever color the sheet is orange is

[8:01] sheet which Tom wrote up very quickly as 93rd or eleventh version or whatever obviously we can have discussion about it at public hearing in a week or two but we're just asking if you would at least throw this in the mix so we can have a dialogue around that later on okay and the one sentence reason for this twist on this variation it's probably in your email but do you want to just explain why this variation so when people look at it they know what they're considering well one of the concerns that I have about all the other options is that they are taking ongoing revenue and using it for a one-time purpose and using this option would take it will make it a one-time purpose so it would be consistent with the operational process of the city it's not law but it's an operational process that it's used and there are some other reasons which I'm happy to share when we have the full discussion excellent okay

[9:01] that's hopeful context one question that this raises for me is I would want to hear from our open space director berth to let us know and taking one whole year of 0.15 what would that do to your your budget and your work plan in the following year so let's take that as a first hearing the first reading question for staff to address anything else on consent yes I get a couple quick ones when I just wanted to call out we're pointing dr. David gross to the city audit committee so dr. David Fredrik did this for many years helping city with this and thank him much for his service if he's listening but I'm excited that dr. Krause is joining us I served with him on the dairy board for a couple of years he was the treasurer and now the board chair and we're fortunate to have his financial expertise being lent to us so

[10:02] just want to speak to that and we're gonna hear from him next yeah yes I look forward to now the the other one I just got an email from the chair of the Human Relations Commission Nikhil Mon kicker about the Human Rights Ordinance and the potential to include some additional language around religious expression in the updates that we're hearing and I don't want to try to suggest amended language on the first reading tonight but I just want to have staff if they could for the second reading investigate those concepts and maybe bring to us some options for consideration when we do consider the ordinance it was really just proposed that we include this in our first reading and it basically defines religious expression for those of you who are wondering okay so with

[11:01] those two additions are we good on the consent I'll move the consent agenda any more discussion okay it's a roll call vote we start with councilmember Moore's L yes Nagel yes Weaver all right Yates hye-young yes Brackett hi karlie oh I Jones aye the motion passes unanimously you have to call up considerations tonight the first one is a landmark alteration certificate for 920 Mapleton Avenue does anybody this is the one with solar panels on the roof does anybody have questions or want to call that up thanks for adding solar panels to your house indeed okay the second one is a

[12:05] utility easement vacations for 2150 55th Street if its cues myself that's where my office is does anybody want to call up or discuss or have questions about this and the question has to do with you know these changes that are going in now will they prevent we're gonna go into the east folder or sub-community plan and I don't know if this will this parcel is included in that or how we're going to configure the East Boulder sub community plan but I'm curious as to if these changes will negatively impact your potential development that might happen there so I don't exactly know what I'm sorry Charles Farrow planning

[13:01] department I don't know the East Boulder sub community plan defined boundary per se off the top of my head but the vacation of these easements in effect implements a site review for a two-story office building that was approved in August of last year so it was sent to the Planning Board it wasn't called up so this just effectuates that approval okay thank you so much you bet my pleasure okay okay okay your first public hearing tonight is a motion to adopt the manufactured housing strategy and action plan good evening i'm kurt for an hour director of housing human services and tonight we're going to be giving a concise presentation on really the results of the last few months of community engagement and it's it's really it's a strategy that you'll be you're being asked to approve it's

[14:01] really a road map to our updated strategy of the activities that we'll be focusing on over the next couple of years to positively impact the experience that residents have in the manufactured home communities and what we found in you can go to going to these communities it was reaffirmed to us the strong community that exists there this is Sharon Simmons in the middle there she's here tonight this is her her glory moment here but she's representing the HRC tonight she sits on the ADA stands for Human Relations Commission and the point of this is that people in these communities are involved in their communities and insurance case she's involved outside of her community as well it's a great example of you know what we observed in

[15:02] these communities they had a lot of impact in the whole process of where we got to today so tonight we're going to be led by crystal under who's a housing planner in our department and Brenda written our was very involved in this project guiding the community engagement process as our neighborhood liaison thank you so in discussion in discussion of the manufactured housing strategy action plan we're going to be discovering what the policy is because that's really the background for this strategy the nine step decision-making process that we went through to arrive at what the product that's in front of you tonight and the analysis and engagement that happened between the February 26 study session and today so it was before you as a study session and

[16:01] you provided some input and it's back in front of you today is for adoption we also have some updates to provide that have happened between now and that study session and then we'll provide a high-level overview of the strategy and action plan and and in the parlance of the nine step decision-making process will be at step seven which is making a decision so the Boulder Valley comprehensive plan includes a policy focused on manufactured housing in in it our support for retaining manufactured housing as a housing option president preserving these communities development of new manufactured home communities increased resident own communities and reducing and eliminating health and safety issues and rehousing displaced households and the nine step decision-making process which was adopted by the city was used to frame

[17:01] this process we began with were when we met with you in February we're at Step five which was identifying the options prior to that there was a whole body of engagement and a collection of information to provide in that in that memo that informed that study session as his background foundation of information in inquiry step six is that the activities that have been happening between when we met in February and today and including the analysis and then the engagement activities and then step seven is tonight so on the Left you'll see the areas of focus for the analysis that were prepared by staff including infrastructure pad rent stabilization licensing energy efficiency and land use code so there was a staff analysis across a variety of

[18:00] departments that informed those analyses and then we prepared recommendations including an updated guiding principles we took feedback from both city council in February and the public to add accountability as that as a fourth principle and then the proposed action plan was put out to the stakeholders in the broader community as well an ordinance ideas that fall within that action plan in our engagement activities included a staff office hours there was a survey that was published in June and it was kept open until after the Human Relations Commission hearing in July we also in April we met with the youth Opportunity Advisory Board and so that was before we had the analysis all completed so they didn't actually vote

[19:01] on on the proposal or papaya provide any input on it but they just provided individual input the housing advisory board and the Human Relations Commission supported the strategy and they provided a little like kind of thoughts and I'm specific thoughts as well that you can see in the memo but generally in support I think the most significant thing that has happened between when we met in February and today was adoption at the state level of the mobile home park over act oversight bill that was a bill that was sponsored by Edie Hooton who you'll see they're talking to jerod Paulus who's holding his pen up to her and it was there was a city and county staff team that helped inform it the the big kind of piece of forward movement is the dispute resolution and enforcement program that will go into effect on May

[20:01] 1st 2020 so that'll be in full operation at that point at the Colorado Division of housing we also through the bill they also identified or kind of clarified county and municipal powers to enforce certain elements of the mobile home park act the it also extended the termination period for non-payment to give more opportunity to cure and then it also extended the eviction period to give if a resident were being evicted it would provide a better time period that person that household to receive the investment value back if they were to sell it or to find an opportunity to move it to another location another recent update was that the city excuse me the Cu boulders a boulder affordable housing research

[21:00] initiative or barri completed a survey that we partnered to develop a survey and they completed that survey and it was distributed to every household in the four communities there within the city of Boulder and there was a 20% participation rate and and I think it tells a very interesting story it certainly shows that high level of home ownership that's provided in these communities and it shows you know that there are more families living in these communities there are more households that have at least one member of the community there or excuse me of the household that's that are over age 60 more Latino more people who receive Social Security income and their households seventy five more than three-quarters of households receive or have incomes below forty pursues me $40,000 annually and just ask a question

[22:00] on the MHC stats is that nationwide I'm sorry this this this right here mm-hmm this is for the four Boulder Meadows Vista village no I know you know you have a distinguishment yeah I mean you just seems between MHCs and Boulder and I'm assuming that mhm sees our nationwide no these are those those are the manufacturing home communities and Boulder yeah so that's so it's these are the survey was specifically targeted at the four communities inside our boundaries right but I guess I'm not getting what the differences yes so the gray bar includes oh right all data again our communities its I am i it's a lot of new information right I didn't know if you were just referring to boulders mobile home

[23:00] communities in the blue but you're comparing that and so that makes yes I understand yeah it was so you're comparing it to residents in Boulder homeowners in Boulder yeah so it's it's actually the data is between the city of Boulder at large it's the American Community Survey data on city of Boulder and then the gray bars are the data for the manufactured home communities so a lot of disparity yeah there's there's a big difference other updates that we have since that study session include of completion of a market analysis that was statewide on zero energy modular that was commissioned by the city and partnership with energy outreach Colorado habitat Colorado and the Colorado Housing and Finance Authority and that looked at opportunities both in manufactured home communities for a zero

[24:01] energy modular as well as looking at you know just a typical single-family application are you gonna talk more about that later because it doesn't make sense what exactly it tells us the market analysis yeah yeah I mean so at the broad level there's a lot of opportunity and it and it appears to be affordable but to say more about what the gems are and and and it that's affordable is the making of them or yeah so elaborate would you like me to do that now sometime in your flow okay address that yeah I'll just do that now then so zero energy modular housing is you know construction techniques to you know create a zero energy and and then also mechanical equipment and monitoring and so forth to create a zero energy modular home and basically kind of what

[25:01] it what it looks at is that their overtime it's an affordable home option you know I think a lot of times with me with manufactured housing upfront it's more affordable but then in the long run when you with the energy cost that because manufactured housing has higher energy costs than a typical single family home so it does create more affordability when you look at the cost of both the housing and the energy and these particular units or already exist or made some way just to explain that piece sure so in 2017 we visited the we visited with Vermont energy investments corporation and we saw we did site visits to several mobile home parks our excuse me manufactured home communities that have zero energy modulars in them and yeah I think only manufactured home

[26:02] communities and we also visited a production facility so they are being made and they're it's just an opportunity an opportunity to really advance energy efficiency for these homes and we're also exploring it in the context of Ponderosa okay I was just trying to figure out if a company makes them they are a thing or they're widely used or I'm just trying to figure out yeah the next one of the coming up a little bit okay we'll be talking a little bit more about that and it'll certainly come up in the Ponderosa context when Ponderosa comes back up as well so the other in your packet as well I notice I notified that the the House bill there was an affordable housing bill that also passed and it creates 30 million dollars of additional funding for affordable housing and one of the items that it can be used for is home

[27:01] removal repair or replacement so we're just kind of looking into that and trying to see if there's opportunities to use it here locally and then we were provided with an update that staff is enforcing through the rental licensing and then also on a complaint basis the lighting and forcement and so if you wanted to look in your packet there is the manufactured housing strategy is attachment a and we're gonna go over that now so that strategy provides both a background on the work that it took to get here and then also on manufactured housing in Boulder broadly and the other key piece of it separate from the action plan is that it has guiding principles including accountability affordability

[28:03] community and viability and the final section of that strategy is the action plan and that action plan is set to a time period between 2019 and 2021 and so if you just to help kind of navigate through that there the blue bars indicate the topic area or that area of focus in this case infrastructure then every action that falls under that category is is listed individually whether or not it has an ordinance or funding is in the next column who the lead department would be is is in the column after that and then the time period between now and the end of 2021 that that that work item is proposed to take place and finally if it does have an ordinance associated with it what that time what that kind of timing in

[29:01] terms of a quarter is that we're proposing and then also on the side you will see the the five areas of focus which I'm going to walk you through now and well and highlight what the action items are under each so the first area focuses infrastructure the black box highlights the issues and concerns related to that and then the action items that we're proposing are water developing water and sewer standards identifying lips pardon me identifying hold on one moment okay identifying code constraints so if a manufacturer at home community owner is wanting to replace their infrastructure are there elements of our code that are preventing that from happening we're making it prohibitive in some way utility bill notice requirements so that so that Park residents who are excuse me

[30:02] manufacturer home community residents would have would wouldn't know what that bill is it's billed to the manufacturer home community owner maintenance replacement and service interruption plan so those are three different types of plans that would need to be available and then also an ordinance related to alternative lodging so if there was an extended period of time where the infrastructure is where water was disrupted than a requirement to provide to pay for the lodging the second topic area is the pad rent stabilization and action items under that really really at the state level just a reminder that we have the state statute on rent control we can continue our exploration through completing the illegal analysis for a local ordinance also continue to work with the manufactured home community

[31:00] owners to explore voluntary agreements and then at the state level because the statute on rent control prohibits you know appears to prohibit pad rent stabilization that's certainly a place to focus as well the third area focus is licensing and enforcement and I think the way to kind of walk through this is actually to talk a little bit about the issues and concerns so some of the major topic areas were infrastructure maintenance and management practices that were areas of concern where the idea of Licensing was raised and but also from the resident perspective there was concern about being able to actually we have a bunch of ordinances in place but there were concerns about being able to navigate to navigate the city system to try to resolve if they had a concern and then whether or not they were staffing available so the licensing and

[32:00] enforcement action items are kind of a package that would focus on that we found that it was it was would it be take a lot of effort to create a licensing program we would have to create a new a new home for that licensing program because it doesn't neatly fit into rental licensing or business licensing so this would create new ordinances a navigation guide to help residents understand how to pursue their concerns and then determine and then looking at our staffing and within the adequacy of it both now and then into the future as new Ida if we look at adopting additional ordinances the fourth area focuses energy efficiency and so this is coming back to the zero energy modular we are planning on doing a modular housing in Ponderosa and we are currently looking for a site where a

[33:00] you know construction could take place we are also related to energy efficiency looking at we are going to be piloting a solar garden for the Ponderosa residence that it should vastly reduce their energy bills and that could then be applied in other communities and then the energy impact offset fund just is is something that we will continue to explore as an opportunity to make for energy efficiency improvements in manufactured homes the fifth topic area is the land use code and primarily the goal is that we that we saw trying to advance here is manufactured development of new manufactured home communities which hasn't happened despite having a policy in favor of that outcome so a parcel analysis is being proposed there and then we have the way the action plan

[34:00] is laid out we have a number of items under infrastructure pad rent stabilization local enforcement energy efficiency and then this other category we call other that will kick in pretty quickly if the if the action plan is adopted and that would happen in the third quarter and fourth quarter of 2019 which brings us to the motion language our proposal motion language thank you for that Sam guys have a really brief comment and a question at the same time literally in Vermont they built these there's a company called Burma which is a private company that works with this state agency to build these zero energy modular homes so when you talk about looking for a site would you also be looking for the equivalent of Vermont locally or could you contract with them or what are your thoughts about that

[35:03] so ver mod could help us with this process as sort of a consultant on this they've sort of made all the mistakes and learned all the lessons of how to do it right so we are we are looking for a site within the city of Boulder to be able to do this there's currently no manufacturing homes being completed in the city in the state of Colorado right now they've all moved out so there's there's a real need for that there's a real niche for it and what we found and you know in the East Coast is that it's it's it's sort of a normalized product it's it's occurring there and so it's both the local action as well as we're working with a number of states organizations to see if we can help encourage this at a state level as well

[36:00] thank you do you mean as a for-profit to in build these things or just we're looking at partnering with with habitats to build some simple modular homes for the Ponderosa community okay other people okay good so would you be looking like for a warehouse or are you so it would be covered that's correct I mean I was thinking you know we do have our Public Works yard and I'm wondering if we couldn't move some kind of we're looking at that oh good okay because we in order to get more mobile home communities we need to have a place where they are manufactured nearby so it makes it economically feasible Karen the question with the solar garden pilot sounds like a great idea

[37:00] are you thinking about putting that on building energy would be shared what's the thought there the solar garden would be located at a different location it on a City facility and then the residents would subscribe very nice it'd be somewhere else in the city of Boulder but not on site and would you be taking advantage of the new solar garden rules that the legislature just passed this in order to make that happen this head I don't know I think you probably would but yeah that's great that's exciting thank you okay Lisa you have some questions if you could go I was just trying to go to our youth tables you you and one of your sites near the end you said there's no more places for manufactured home communities in the city of Boulder but actually we have a lot of potential in

[38:00] other places and I was reviewing our packet tonight for the youth tables and I saw if I'm reading it correctly that we could consider a lot other places or zones than we are using right now one of the places that I have worked in as a geologist over time well for 40 years is Jackson Wyoming and one of the beauties of downtown Jackson Wyoming is they have kind of eclectic zoning where you'll have a manufactured home right next to some apartments right next to a single-family house right next to different uses and I really would like to see something like that and I know some people will probably get upset but I would like us to start looking in those zones that we've identified in the

[39:01] use tables where we could put clusters of manufactured homes so that you could have maybe a two acre lot and you could put X amount of homes there there single-family houses and I don't see why we wouldn't really start looking in those kinds of places when we're looking do you have any more questions no I just want to make sure that you're looking at these other zones and that you're working with the Planning Department on not just manufactured housing communities zones but that you're also looking in the are ELLs the are ours the RTS and those yes do you mind if I respond to that or sure yeah then you can turn that into a question that's way that will you look at that yeah so so

[40:03] yes the the parcel analysis will start from what the use table say and I think that will inform the potent you know ideas of potential looking into other zones certainly if they're you know if we aren't able to make any progress in the existing zones or I wouldn't even put it if I would say let's look at it mm-hmm that's what I was okay I have a couple than Cindy then Mary the energy impact offset fund you had a question mark is that to get money to help pay for solar Gardens for mobile home communities is that the connection it's kind of an open topic it could be helping with replacement of helping manufacturer to homeowners to replace their homes so coming up with different partnerships with you know desirable

[41:03] partnerships maybe with manufacturers and lenders and kind of coming up with a whole package it would be one idea but there's a variety of ways that it could potentially be deployed more and more the climate initiative staff is looking at social equity and so they're interested in looking at deploying it to serve people in these communities okay kind of broad okay just trying to understand as we move forward is that in terms of state legislative priorities you mentioned since Ron the legislative committee I just want to make sure I have the ones one is to look into the state grant control piece at least as regards to mobile home community to our manufactured home communities there are other things on our legislative agenda for next year yes I need to just refer back and look at that but in yeah okay let me look back okay all right well and

[42:02] you could maybe email it to us I just think it's useful to know what's the next step we want to help because whatever we do down there helps everybody statewide not just on a community okay so yeah you can get us to whenever you want the third question was or my last question is so this strategy is focused just on the for communities strictly within our limits city limits but there's so many other mobile or manufactured home communities like in enclaves right next to our boundaries and I'm just kind of curious about a larger strategy with the county to also bring those in the fold or to make sure that they also have energy-efficient homes or whatever it may be even if they're not in our limits yeah yeah the original intent on having it focus on the city was to look at how we could advance preservation and opportunities in the city so it was

[43:00] really about keeping the conversation focused because because annexation there are a number of communities I think Columbine is one San lázaro and then of course Ponderosa is kind of in the process we get you know owned Ponderosa and Table Mesa village are all eligible so yes that could be certainly a larger conversation we haven't thought about it but Boulder County is there is engaged on this topic at this point well this just note that even if they're not annexed they're essentially in our community and some of these efforts would I would think would logically apply okay Cindy and then Mary so I just have a small question under the guiding principles which is on page 2 of the draft and page 889 of our 1084 page packet on the guiding principles it says

[44:00] under accountability and under all four of the main topics that should is the verb so that agreements ordinances and this may be for the city attorney agreements ordinances and requirements should have clearly defined and practical enforcement mechanisms etc why wouldn't that be we'll since should implies that it may not be we always try for clearly defined and practical so I think it ideally would be a shell that makes sense Michelle or will this is on page 2 it's just the draft of 39 I mean okay IDing principle yes 889 yeah I'm just looking at it through there I thought the will would be very emphatically standardized what was coming in there rather than just we're trying for this now we're trying for we're gonna do it yep so but I'm not a lawyer so right then that might be a benefit very so I had um

[45:09] I have several questions when the first one is with respect to setting fixture limits I thought that was an interesting idea that was had I believe it was the Human Relations Commission and I was interested in hearing a little bit more about how that discussion came about and what the aim would be and how that would affect setting the operational requirements yeah maybe I'll start with the concern so it was part of their discussion Sharon Simmons who's sitting in the audience is on the Human Relations Commission and she's also a resident and so is familiar with those issues I think the concern the concern is whether or not the systems are adequate to handle more homes larger

[46:01] homes you know I think it's specifically larger whom so currently what they're you know the the older homes are single wide fewer bedrooms and the larger homes that are coming in have more so that's that's a concern can the new can the old infrastructure handle the additional capacity and so that would of that would affect how the operational requirements would be set it couldn't it could be one of them uh-huh you mean to up the standards or the hour to designate a fixture limit for and that would also affect like the earlier net zero energy homes that the size of those and there would it would set something like that this seems like a good idea but I'm just wondering what the implications are of doing something like that yeah but yes that's a good warning and I think that's a nice opportunity to talk

[47:00] about how really this is this would be just the beginning of the conversation and then doing a lot of work with stakeholders to understand what it's really crystallize what we want and then you know try to avoid those unintended consequences thank you and then I have another question respect to the rulemaking on the affordable housing that 19-3 2013 22 you spoke about staff involvement in the oversight Act is there is staff involved in the rulemaking for the other one the $30,000,000 I I'm not aware of it okay no we're not is that something that could happen is that something that needs an invitation or how does that work well so I the rulemaking is because they're setting up a new program and I

[48:00] mean I think believe one of the other interesting caveats I heard about with the $30,000,000 is that a lot of it's actually going to be reallocated to a different Department it's paying back something so I don't know how much it will turn into or how much of it will go to this you know category of work of you know replacing helping people remove their old homes helping them fund purchase of new homes so the what you're saying is the whole 30 million dollars may not be available that's what I've heard okay and then you mentioned a little bit in the area of Licensing that the perhaps licensing some of the operational requirements that could be established through ordinance would achieve the same outcome as licensing could you discuss a little bit more about that and with the pros and cons are sure yeah so I think and basically

[49:03] when we had conversations with the licensing we talked with both the rental licensing and with business licensing and there's some of the hurdles include the there would actually have to be a new look since for the people who are doing the inspections right and and when you think about it there's three communities that we would have to you know license on whatever basis so every four years or so forth so there's like there's not necessarily enough communities to justify that licensing would be one of the challenges another one is that the you know just the business licensing function isn't necessarily set up to look at either of the issues that were raised around the topic areas I should say that were raised around you know management practices I would call it business business practices or

[50:01] management practices and then ensuring that infrastructure is running properly so that's why that alternative approach of a package of ordinances and just ensuring that people understand how to you know navigate a complaint and so forth would be is what we're proposing okay thank you and my final question had to do in the in the strategy itself there was a line about expanding on-site Human Services and or recreational programs and I was just I guess I was unaware that that there was already some human services and and recreational program programs to expand upon so I just wanted to hear a little bit about what is going on and what would be expanded yeah I mean so probably at the

[51:01] basic level and maybe expand maybe we should have used a different word certainly groups like fo are supporting residents to you know pay their rent when they run into a period where they don't have you know maybe a low employment period or something like that there but in general what we're looking at would be excreting more recreational youth programming so in Ponderosa right now they just launched I think it's called the rec on Wheels program and so they're bringing recreation to residents and we have yeah we have some other interested parties like that are provide human services and that seems like a really good idea because transportation can be a huge barrier and a lot of these community so mm-hmm that sounded like a great thing so yeah thanks why don't we turn to the public

[52:01] hearing and you can it's question they really are questions okay so so I have two questions one of them in the document you talked about chattel loans and how much more expensive they are and that they their due date is much earlier than most mortgages do we have any programs in the city that people who want to live in a manufactured home community could apply to and see some kind of funding support or a loan or something like that do we have anything like that we do not have that the right now I'm trying to think of the name of the organization because it changed names some elevations fund anyway it's it's there is one program that offers a somewhat lower rate it's I think ranges between like you know seven and nine percent or something like that and the standard rate right now is nine to eleven right which is

[53:01] really expensive I mean weak for my comment yeah I mean I think exploration of the of that fund at the state level will will be helpful and we're also staff is also looking into what you know we have our mobile home repair program those are an opportunity to turn it into a down payment or something like that you know you know I would like to see that and then lighting enforcement came up can you just address that a little bit I can't address it how are you doing it and what is being enforced yeah I'll do what I can with with your request so I what I was told the update that was provided to me is that it's being enforced through rental licensing and on a complaint basis mm-hm and I really don't have any more information than that well with that

[54:03] let's turn to the public hearing we have 16 people signed up to speak if anybody else wants to speak up if you could do so quickly at that table that would be great everybody will get two minutes of peace if you could start with your name and your address that would be great and we will start with Tina bogan and if Teresa could be ready to go that would be great hi my name is Tina bogie just grab that mic and bring it here alright and I live at 4-4 75 Broadway number 59 in the Ponderosa so I'm just here to briefly touch on the annexation and zoning process or since we're almost there so as this has moved along the people that wish to stay in their current mobile homes which is what we've been told from the beginning because they don't qualify or can't or just don't want to they're happy where they are and have put tons of money into their home

[55:00] to make it a nice home really have nothing but the word of city employees and written in our resident guides that we get every few months with updates and everything so we have nothing legal and binding that is securing our future there people are getting nervous we've lost 12 families already and it's just not making a lot of sense to people that you spend all this money to put affordable homes in for other people because it's looking like people that are living in Ponderosa may not make that transition or can't and there's no reason for their homes that are there to to leave you know those homes are fine so I'm just asking that through this process that you really take that into consideration and we've asked for me like a legal contract one-on-one between the city and a homeowner that's there we

[56:02] were told no on that we were told we'd be written as we first told the zoning would never change and that's changing we were also told then that we would be written into the annexation and we're not being around into that so you know we don't really everything's been subject to change a lot of things have been subject to change I should say so I just want you to keep that in mind as this moves forward there's like I said 12 families have left already thank you thank you and we'll have staff address ponderous at the end after we hear some of your concerns okay Theresa and then Tonya petty Tonya could be ready hi my name is Sheree so close breathe that's all right it's a bad name that's why I'm a name my kids Toni and Randy good evening I live in the Ponderosa and I was forced to move there after the violet crossing development I

[57:03] I'm just learning about this study session I I wonder why the Ponderosa residents weren't invited I guess it's because we're not in the city but that would have been really nice in my hand now you'll find information that was given to us during community engagement meetings that we all attended the first shows really amazing images of single-family homes this is what we were first pulled on sheets two and three outlined the cost in the beginning seven hundred and forty dollars to 795 I'm finding out that I'll be paying $1,200 more to own a Habitat for Humanity home next page is the flood protection analysis where it shows on the West End where all the flood water is most likely to go they want to add nine more homes

[58:02] in that area and the last page is a printout from the daily camera Monday you'll see the arrows and the mobile homes are going anywhere from fifty nine thousand six hundred dollars to eighty six thousand dollars we were offered far less for our homes the government's long arm of encroachment is laying on the backs of boulders poorest residents one of my neighbors digs through the trash to find items to sell during the summer so she can get by I had another neighbor that didn't have heat all last winter we had be encouraged to voice what we went for the Ponderosa we all want single-family homes without shared walls the plan has mostly multi-family homes I'm almost finished the plan now wants to add nine more homes on the west side so folks can move to them well the homes are being

[59:00] built twelve trailers are now vacant why can't we build in these spaces instead of destroying the small buffer on the west side before the Rosewood neighborhood was built the city promised not to build here now they want to add more housing crowding and crowding us in on land that absorbs reading during the storms the city plan is making the Ponderosa place we don't want to live in we ask pleas for promises to be fulfilled we asked for just compensation for our homes thank you Thank You Tanya and then rattles hello my name is Tanya petty I live at Vista Village I've been here many times as a matter of fact up and coming since 2014 in regards to the water issues people are being charges thousands of dollars for water they're not using I've given you information from 2014 till now and it happened to me in 2016 to the tune of

[60:02] $500 and went to Dora and they dismissed it even though I was discriminated against harassed intimidated to point where I had to have video cameras in my own home because of management and owner involvement this has been an issue for a long time it's still going on the sewer back backups $32,000 damage to my home $11,000 hotel costs and $1,000 personally to me the other was covered by my insurance thank god these backups have happened to so many people but they're afraid to come in this is raw sewage going into their homes that cannot be mitigated except for by being removed and management's not taking responsibility for the infrastructure they're not taking responsibility for the sewer damages that came in my home and literally laughed at me thinking it was funny that I had to live in raw sewage the existing laws and ordinances are there we need an officer to enforce

[61:02] them we need a Zoning Commission or officer to be able to go in and investigate the infrastructure and force the existing laws and ordinances a code enforcement officer would be able to give fines for non-compliance they're charging residents for leaks existing leaks in the system as a whole there's no maintenance the HOA has been for five years now and we won't be able to sustain ourselves if we don't have help from the city staff and from you guys in regards to this enforcement code and an officer to help us no one's willing to come in and complain or make these complaints because of fear and retaliation and it continues to go on no enforcement no need to comply thank you thank you Tony bread and then Cathy Nuland let me introduce myself I'm Brad Olson I live

[62:01] at 4902 clubhouse court I'm here on behalf of Boulder Vista village as well as Riverstone Communities and Orchard Grove first let me thank the city staff one of the things that we've asked for is what was pickle coined by one of the former council members as the boulder way and the city staff has certainly done that they've done an excellent job of being a awful respectful and productive process with the discussion of important issues with all stakeholders and that's to be commended we would ask that it's an indicate that it's critically important that that process continue throughout this the ongoing process I guess I'm using process too many times but we would ask that it continue especially as ordinances are being drafted it's important that that process also includes comments from stakeholders before the ordinances released at first reading so we would ask I suppose primarily the City Attorney's Office to engage in the same sort of thoughtful process we know we know that Park owners are part of the solution to

[63:01] the lack of affordable housing we believe it's important to build community and we do everyday and you'll hear from several individuals that will testify to that we we've sought a path based upon building community not building walls and we do it every day having a nice place to live it's important for everyone it does not happen by accident we do have to manage and operate our parks every day so that they're lovely safe and affordable please do visit us I hold us accountable that's fine our parks are not home to just or even mostly vulnerable residents have Vista village the average household income is approximately $50,000 homes are being purchased now in the 75,000 to $150,000 range we have very few evictions Orchard Grove has in you'll hear from representative of orchha Grove has none Vista village has two to four in the last ten years we agree that parks are an important part of the solution but the reality is

[64:01] were a small part of the overall housing picture were something at a long line 2.8 percent of the total housing in Boulder so we would ask for consistency thank you Thank You Kathy and then serve hi I'm Kathy Nuland I'm the manager of Vista Village mobile home park I've been here before it's good to see all of you I just wanted to say a few things my husband was just a village for 10 years of course we're gonna have unhappy residents it's going to happen everywhere we've invited the council members to visit us as of this day I've not seen any council member coming to my door to visit us and we really would like to welcome you to come in talk to us see what we do we're very excited

[65:00] about working with rec on wheels they were just in here last week in our office last week so we're gonna be starting that we are at full capacity as soon as a house is ready to move out of the park it's old they bring in another one and it's old um yeah they are going for very high prices I'm even shot to the prices that they're going for we were on a waiting list Vista Village is a very nice place to live we do have other happy people but we have majority of happy people and as I said I really really really encourage any of you to please come into my office talk to me let me tell you face to face from what we're doing to help the residents the resources that we give the residents I guess we're just we're a good community you know we would do anything we can to help our residents so I just have a question last summer I

[66:02] went to an eviction hearing for one of your residents and you asked the judge to have me removed so I'm curious about that I did not ask the judges have you removed our attorney asked the judge to have you REBOUND you had talked with him I'm just making that comment okay and you know I don't feel too welcoming to me doesn't feel welcoming to be mocked by a bunch of people in the audience to me either you know we would just all like to it'd be nice for everybody to just get along coming to our Park I go to your Park okay thank you thank you Sarah and then Virginia Zukowski hi my name is Sarah Reed I'm the chief operating officer of Riverstone communities which is the management company for Orchard Grove and I just wanted to talk a little bit about our passion for people especially the people in our communities

[67:02] which I think that you guys share so 10 years ago we were able to partner with a nonprofit called path project and we were able to bring them into our communities and they set up community buildings which we give them fries Lots based on many times and we contribute to them as well and they're able to do English as a second language for people they are able to do tutoring for children they're able to do soccer programs and they've brought up the graduation rate in our communities from in the single low teens up into either high 80s which has been unbelievable we just now this year which is amazing we're able to figure out how to recreate that and we'll be bringing that to our community here at Orchard Grove as well as all of the rest of our communities around the country so we're very proud of the work that we do with that stuff and I wanted to share that with you to let you know that that will be coming soon to our community there and then quickly to you've met elizabeth organs

[68:00] she is my right-hand person here and she wanted me to give you an update on our infrastructure as well so we have had to shut off valves that have been installed at our property so far so if anybody is out of water we can set the zones up so it won't infect the whole community and we've also had the entire thing inspected as well as preventive plans and completely mapped out so we're excited that that's moving forward and we have a clear plan with our contractor on what we need to do going forward great quick question about the mapping of the utilities that you did have you provided that to the city was there any kind of from reading your information exchange as part of that our contractor would have done anything that he needed with the city but no permitting was needed okay I think you would be very helpful if the city had the records of the maps that you've made simply because it was a problem the last time and so if there's backup or redundancy as far as what's available to the city contractors to look at when there's a line break or

[69:00] something that would be very helpful agreed and hopefully we have that same thing going back and forth whenever some maps that the city had that weren't given to us last time either thank you I have a question can you speak to a concern was raised about damage damages during that incident can you refresh our memories on how you're handling that or maybe if she care to respond to to the issue of sewage backup I don't believe that the resident with the sewer issue back up today was you know our resident but when we had the issues we did go in and we assessed everything and we did help people clean up their homes and fix their utilities and cover their costs yeah and we put people in housing and the way that the houses that needed to be fixed we're a company that stands for our values I'm talking about the wrong building that's okay we're a company that stands behind doing the right thing we stand behind our values okay thank you Thank You Virginia and then Tony Peyton hey

[70:02] good evening council members as a member of Orchard Grove neighborhood I feel that it is within my purview to speak to you tonight regarding a few issues affecting mobile-home residents and the communities I want to make it clear that I speak for myself having not consulted all the members of our group first I refer you to the report titled manufacturer Housing Strategy potential ordinance citation is number 4.1 and it says it says owners are to provide regular on-site office hours by a manager Orchard Grove has not had an on-site manager since well before our water and sewer issues are a crisis only 10 managers sent from other properties that they own now but I just talked to Sara who you just heard from downstairs I just met her downstairs and the situation is being resolved as we speak so thank you

[71:02] Sara looking again at the report 3.1 a minimum use lease minimum term of lease some of us at Orchard Grove who have lived there before Riverstone bought the property have a month-to-month lease it sounds like a disadvantage but actually there's a distinct advantage to that the type of lease and it's valid because it's valid in perpetuity unless there is illegal activity by the resident or if there's a non-payment of rent and I'm looking at the city attorney she's nodding at me therefore our older leases and furthermore are over older leases include water garbage and sewer and are still valid so some of us have that and the newer residents have a newer lease that doesn't include that regarding the rent increases I would like the owners

[72:01] to be accountable to the city in some way so thank you for your time I really appreciate it I also will send you an email thank you so much thank you thank you and after Nikhil Amy both I'm not betting a thousand okay sorry about that good evening mayor and members of council my name is tani Payton I'm here on behalf of the Rocky Mountain Home Association we represent the entire industry which includes not only the manufactured home communities but also the manufacturers retailers lenders etc I would like to echo what Brad said when he acknowledged staff and their willingness to include the industry and the community owners in the study

[73:01] we have been actively involved and have provided responses to the online survey unfortunately we do not believe that any of our input was included in the strategy as mentioned crystalloid mentioned that House bill 19 1309 passed this year during the legislative session this program creates a dispute resolution program which will help to address many of the issues that have been brought up by community residents I feel that the community residents and the owners need an opportunity to utilize this program before implementing additional regulations and oversight at the local level in addition you all were talking about me and you factoring facilities and bringing manufacturing back into Colorado and I'm also excited to share that House bill 19 1238 passed this year during session that was our effort to encourage factories to come

[74:01] back to Colorado by giving them more flexibility in the codes that they are required to be built to so hopefully we will welcome factories there is a fairly new factory that is actually starting up down in the kind of i-70 i-25 corridor so I'm encouraged by that and I'm learning more about other factories that are interested in coming to Colorado so I hope to be working with all of you to to introduce the parties and get hopefully some factories back in Colorado do I have another minute we're trying to get people to finish their sentence okay just if you have an additional key thought okay and so one other thing that that is mentioned in the strategy is to promote manufactured housing and to develop new communities and Boulder at some open houses that

[75:01] some of you have attended that I've attended there have been conversations around the fees specific to water and ways to reduce those fees so that the communities aren't assessed the higher rate because they have one big master meter the items like that would help to reduce the just the operation costs and also maybe a program of providing vacant land I know there's opportunity zones is there a way to zone something mhm to welcome a community investment maybe creation of some sort so and on that note thank you for that all right now thank you Thank You Nikki woman keiko the trail of the human relations commission and just want to lend support for some issues that have come up not only at the Human Relations Commission meeting but I've been attending a HOA meetings and see mob meetings with the mobile home communities since like 28 2015 16 so

[76:02] just some some top qualities the council should think of there's Wanda need for a full-time employee in code enforcement to handle manufactured housing issues as of now the existing city employees do not have the capacity to take this on and this issue has come up repeatedly at manufactured housing HOA and coalition meetings I've attended and with the many discussions with residents and a point of mines in the park we need at the local level in an enforcement mechanism so since 2015 we've been passing you know good laws and ordinances but if we don't have them that means to enforce them it's kind of all for naught so as was mentioned at the state level laws existed on the books and in the past session with Edie Hooton coalition and allies such as myself were able to get an employment that mechanism passed so the need with this position has come up and is quite a high need and I understand we have a lot of unfunded needs in the city budget but I believe that the community members that you see who came out tonight having a special have a special need for the city and the

[77:02] council to protect them and enable this to additionally overwhelmingly infrastructure needs have come up and they need to update and fix them and I understand this is expensive but this is a a public health issue and people need clean water and honest billing with water than utilities and the enforcement mechanisms to enable this one idea that came up is to tie Laughlin increases to improvements and infrastructure than in the plugs let's see and last year the Human Relations Commission City Council passed Human Rights Ordinance protections against discrimination and housing with us paying with section 8 affordable housing vouchers and based on citizenship status well what's come up since then is I found that residents they need some kind of assistance and inflammation and how to apply for and use section 8 vouchers I get a lot of questions coming to me if I can assist with this and it's an unfamiliar new process to them so just electing them to

[78:00] a website isn't cutting it so I've been asking the city to provide some kind of formal assistance to navigate this process to be made available to them so thank you for your time and consideration Thank You Nick you Amy good evening my name is Amy bové and I am an attorney and I specialize in the manufactured home business I represent over 20 parks in the Front Range so I deal with a great number of counties today I'm here to represent Boulder Meadows Glen is not able to make it today but he did want to offer just to thank you for allowing us to be part of the process one of the things I can say is that Boulder has been the most open in terms of staff on hearing from stakeholders Glen and I have had significant meetings where we believe that we were heard and I possibly even see some of those thoughts in the proposed ordinances boda Meadows is proud to be a boulder and I

[79:02] think Boulder can be pretty proud of Boulder meadows as well we are committed to a long-term commitment within Boulder we provide we are the largest of all the parks and provide a consider amount of housing that is needed here in Boulder and we're glad to be part of the process with that being said and as a lawyer one of the concerns I would like you guys to think about as we go forward with the ordinances is does this ordinances work with the new amended mobile home product and what may be coming next year the gentleman who spoke before me was concerned about enforcement that has been a concern across Colorado and the new mobile home park amended provision that is creating an AG attorney general area to monitor and to enforce is going to be started on May 1st which was just spoken to with that in mind when we're creating these ordinances which is on page 941 of 1084

[80:04] please keep in mind of how this is also going to work and one thing that Glen from Boulder Meadows had offered at a meeting and I would like to restate this is is we are he's even willing to borrow his resources aka me some of the other lawyers all I do is the mobile home park act we'd be willing to share our resources with the city attorney and drafting the ordinances thank you thank you Donna and after Donna is Tom Crowl he can be ready that would be great hi I live in Boulder Meadows and I've lived there for about 24 ish years and I'm a senior citizen and so I'm here to

[81:00] represent myself as a senior citizen and also other senior citizens living in Boulder Meadows and maybe other mobile home parks as well I'm sure you're aware that there are constant rent increases and this year we actually had to which we've never had before so along with increasing expenses not just in rent but in general in Boulder were also experiencing diminishing resources for example the long speak mobile home repair program I was an applicant for that and I was next in line to receive assistance and it was cancelled and I don't know when or if it's going to be renewed luckily somebody from care connect helped me because I did have some issues with leaking roof and steps and other things he held me thank goodness I also because

[82:08] I live on a very limited income as a senior and I have physical problems so I can't really work full-time I can just do little odds and ends I looked into receiving some kind of assistance I heard about section eight and I found out that that program had like a two-year waitlist and it's closed now available even to mobile home park residents are not aware that it was so far as I know there there's no safety net for seniors really and I know that Boulder is committed to helping homeless people and I well I hope they're committed to preventing people from becoming homeless as well senior

[83:02] citizens in particular oh and I did check into HUD by the way to see if I could get a reverse mortgage and that's not extended to mobile home park to mobile home owners so if you can help us out with rent control maybe or some kind of section eight for mobile home park residents that would be great thank you so much thank you Tom and then allowed to ask your question probably answer it at the end oh okay I'm curious about the I purchased a home in the orchard Grove community and I'm a believer in restoration and I'm interested in the leap grants and I under and that it it's being operated through the city of Longmont but I have not heard anything from it so I'm very interested in upgrading and restoring

[84:02] the mobile home I bought is produced in 1968 so an upgrade would be ideal okay I assume they have your contact information and staff can get back to you with an answer email yes okay thank you Dorian hi I lived there since 2016 and I have to say and I'm also involved in the Colorado coalition of manufactured home owners and residents Association which were trying to make changes across the state I have to say that unfortunately all of your efforts have not proved successful the ordinances are not enforced and the fear

[85:01] is tremendous there's there these people stand up and lie and I'm banned from the office I cannot come in to my own office at Vista Village because I asked about rent increases we are not as an HOA allowed to actually use our community building the section eight that does get handed is not it being accepted by our management so every time you make some sort of effort to protect the vulnerable people that live in the parks that is completely undermined I'm sorry to say that the efforts that you have put into this have not come to fruition and it's very upsetting every single day the fear

[86:02] if I wore this is enough so unsubsidized housing if I were secure in the knowledge that my house that I wouldn't be evicted for no apparent reason I would invest in the sustainable kinds of energy efficiency etc but that would be insane for any of us to do that when we could be evicted at any time for no good reason so please please continue your support it is absolutely essential thank you thank you Dorian Christian and then Julie Van Daan 'land good evening thank you for the time thank you for your efforts I'm Christian Hendrickson I'm a

[87:00] lawyer with Sherman and Howard and we work with the Rocky Mountain Home Association you heard from Tanya earlier today we do appreciate being involved in this process we just want to reiterate that there are multiple sides to all these issues and that as these issues are reviewed as we go forward that the RMH a and industry concerns are considered as we look for workable practical and fair solutions to all involved this is an important unsubsidized affordable housing type but you have to remember the lack of subsidies goes both ways to the residents and the housing providers we've talked about carrots and sticks we're all about carrots carrots are things like rent subsidies for residents rezoning pushing on our friends at the county to also free up some space because they to have land that would work great and candidly I think we've all seen educational opportunities encourage residents to really come to the city come to other providers to see what is out there for them in addition

[88:00] to and candidly instead of over-regulation of this industry we appreciate the the not that rent control is precluded by state law we note in the report 50 to $100,000 per home site to upgrade these facilities so keep that in mind when you hear about these complaints about rent increases think about 50 to $100,000 per home site to make these improvements we are concerned that this small sliver of housing is being looked at more closely than other parts of Boulder housing where 2% or 2.3 percent look at how the other places are being regulated again we focus on the need for data to see what's actually needed to be addressed instead of what just feels good or looks good to be addressed we emphasize that state law has just changed and that you should see how that plays out before we put too much regulation on this industry and we reiterate we're here to work together and we look forward to working with you on the specifics thank you mr.

[89:07] Hendrickson thank you for that you you noted the expense to upgrade some of the infrastructure or to take care of some of the infrastructure needs yes we've heard from the orchard grove management about some of the steps that they're taking but I guess it would be helpful and I know you don't directly represent the different parks but it would be helpful if we hear from other parks if they're undertaking major infrastructure improvements that would be helpful to hear about as we continue moving through this process and and what those improvements are certainly we can pass that along to the members thank you thank you thank you and then James Feeney hi my name is Julie Van Tomlin I'm the executive director at the emergency family assistance Association Mississippi a boulder resident and I come tonight to first thank the council and staff for putting forth a mobile-home strategy that seeks above

[90:00] all else to preserve and expand what will have housing in Boulder because this is the last reservoir for of affordable market housing in the city f we feel that we consider ourselves a significant stakeholder in this condition we support over $80,000 of rental assistance to residents in the last 12 months in our mobile home parks in the city so over 200 families a lot of people come for food assistance and other programming and when our food bank went underwater of two weeks ago we relocated at Boulder Meadows Thank You Boulder Meadows so I do we do support very strongly the manufactured housing strategy if you're waiting for a but there's a little button and that has to do with first do no harm and holding to that preserve and protect and expand objective so we would encourage you to carefully evaluate the options in terms of its impact on in for

[91:01] affordability to give you an example in the guiding principle the affordability says to remain no more extensive than the average expensive than the average for market rate rental housing so that can't be the metric because rental rate market housing is about $1,900 a month for apartments the lot rentals are about 700 to 800 and a affordability principle for someone making low income would be about $600 a month so there's very little headspace and raising expenses to mobile home park residents without displacing them we'd also encourage you to continue to engage directly in your discussions with the mobile home park residents themselves you've heard a lot tonight they are the best way to take the temperature of what's really going on what's really affecting their lives and we offer to work very closely with you in preserving the ability to live in

[92:03] Boulder affordably so thank you for your time would you recommend actually I'm happy to I'm also happy if you have specific ways you think the city could work with you to address specific needs I guess I'd be curious to hear more give you one example that we do do and that's we work we go door-to-door on tax liens against mobile home park owners home OMA homeowners that we've been able to with the County Assessor's Office prevent people losing their mobile homes because of tax liens we have a program to go door-to-door make sure people are aware and help them financially to figure out how to get that bill paid because that's a huge asset to lose for various modules the average lien is about two hundred and fifty dollars so you go to a

[93:00] door-to-door in both the city and the county yeah in our and we work with our partner agencies but in the city of Boulder we do and so we can help you buy that's there's a lot of things that we can do but I think the concern is not to make it more costly to live in mobile homes while you're trying to do enforcement I would I would suggest kind of adopting an investment strategy over an enforcement strategy I think the unintended consequences of Licensing and business permits we see and all kinds of things in the city and it's just I'm worried that that translates as much as you think you may be charging the owner or the company most of those costs get passed on to the residents and mobile and so just be careful there should be some tracking what's actually going on with costs as these regulations and enforcement stuff get rolled out and then invest in making those but our

[94:01] communities so okay and and we will be there to work on the human service side and prevent evictions and legal aid is a big issue that we don't get to involved in others Benson work at the state on eviction prevention and in the city but certainly residents need legal support if they're facing eviction okay if you think of other specifics please centimorgan thank you for your time do they have a quick question for you with an ephah do you conduct any kind of an ordinance navigation no no honestly I think we'd refer someone to the city because we're not experts in ordinance navigation we're experts in resource referrals so that may be something we can work on what are those like what would be a referral of Etha that would be effective to get support the city on how to navigate organized ordinances and we could follow up with

[95:02] you on that thank you thanks we have a few more okay James Feeney are you here oh there you are I'm James Feeney from North Boulder I cannot stress enough the importance of city council addressing to the characterization regulation of land lease contracts in a mobile home park if you do nothing else do that the city of Boulder must recognize the common law right of exclusive possession for land leased by tenants a mobile home park is not an apartment building considering the need for shelter that means not just a roof over your head it also means the ground under your feet mobile home park tenants have already lost the financial competition for land ownership all they have is this leasehold interest in a parcel of land on a planet of over 37 billion acres of dry land some people think they own the land and some people are forced to pay rent to sleep on it let me illustrate for the City Council the direct consequence of the Carn poorly regulated mobile home park land lease contract firstly city manager wage

[96:02] is a campaign of non-enforcement refusing residents full protection under the law there's a slide that lists over a dozen statutes and ordinances that are not enforced by city managers officers I can attest to that personally and to put this another way non enforcement of the laws is no less racist than over enforcement of the laws secondly City Attorney wage is a silent campaign of terror in which home oval home park residents are forced to fend for themselves while that characterization may seem excessively hyperbolic look at the real and present consequences to residents who whether realistically or delusionally are too afraid to speak out for fear of retaliation by park operators and too afraid to exercise what rights they have otherwise granted by state statute I know this because I have spoken with these people with the ever-present threats of eviction they tell me don't speak out you may get us in trouble and yet these people are not wrong to fear when for instance City Attorney continues to

[97:01] claim their property lines and mobile home parks do not exist I have a slide of cities attorneys implied theory of code and see which fails city attorney County legal counsel also appears to contradict contract requirements of CRS 30 a 12 a mobile home park act property description required particularly a three location of a space number upon which the mobile home it's situations and requires understanding the specific meets and bounds of that location or space number I request City Council under the city's authority to regulate commerce address the characterization of this mobile home park land lease contract okay thanks I mean whatever else you didn't get to say please email us I'm Elizabeth hahndorf I've looked at 4th and Alpine since 1976 except for seven years in Florida I

[98:00] wanted to talk about the traffic study for Alpine balsam I've been to a lot of the meetings I haven't seen very many of you there but I wish you would come the staff I think is incorrect in the TAF the traffic study it needs to be redone I've conferred with mister Pomerantz about this and here's a few so you know that this hearing is on another topic no I didn't know that yeah we're talking about mobile homes well is there a traffic study done for them no the staff is making big mistakes the company hired to do the traffic study has made some mistakes I have a marketing background degree I've done surveys statistics so and here we go with somebody who just mentioned that you may put mobile hung

[99:00] not even recreate a great environment for them on iris which was not considered in the traffic study for Alpine balsam okay we're gonna be having a hearing on Alpine Boston on August 27th but we can't have a hearing if the traffic study is grossly mistaken okay so I guess I'll send it in writing transportation that would be great thank you sorry into the into the council yeah so I mean we wanted him yeah that would be helpful Renee and then Lynn hi Renee home all Vista village I don't have a concise statement I just have some comments on various things that were said tonight first I want to say I do think this village is a good park I do appreciate the work that Cathy and Lester do to you know keep it nice and all that managing 300 homes it's not an easy job and at the same time there are you know

[100:02] dissatisfied residents more than they know I'm sure because people will not speak up to them about issues because of fear of retaliation in terms of their comment about evictions 2 to 4 in the last 10 years maybe that's true and actual evictions but as we all know people are forced out they're threatened with eviction then there are stipulations you can move out in 60 days if you don't protest otherwise he'll be out and you know 48 hours or whatever the new requirement is in terms of what Christian Hendrickson said I'd love to see rent subsidies for residents well why don't they accept the Housing Choice vouchers which we thought we were getting with that Human Relations Commission ordinance but it's not being accepted in Vista Village currently and perhaps that could be something to be looked at clarifying in that ordinance that mobile home Lots are subject to you know no discrimination on source of income including Housing Choice vouchers

[101:01] the comment regarding from Adelson about being able to make comment on ordinances before first reading I think is really good I think we all should be able to do that and also having some review after the fact I'll be sending you some information about 804 3 and sale of pre HUD homes which seems kind of questionable right now [Music] ability as you know is a huge issue for residents so I'm not sure what all can be done about that I just want to emphasize that in my position I hear that so much from people so thank you thank you up staff on this one Siegel 5:38 do we I think the first time the first thing you need to do to affect

[102:00] affordability is not be giving subsidies to like five different subsidies subsidies were given to the 311 project the hospital demolishing the hospital is just plain dumb not okay this is entire look at these mobile home hands that we're talking about from 68 and earlier you know maybe those need to be replaced but that's serious it's facing I've seen the windows it looks great so you get some creative architects to figure out how to make it very livable and that's what you do you do not throw my tax dollars away with 16 million dollar demolition and say you're trying to get affordable housing in Boulder and help out these mobile home people that is just counterintuitive it's not okay

[103:03] I mean Christian himself was talking about 50 to 100 thousand dollar upgrades you know talking about condominiums to fill in the middle [Music] how about supplying and not stimulating the hospital demo this is crazy you know just the high from transportation as a result of that demo and as a result of that it's it's right

[104:02] on okay I think that's the end of public comment great thank you very much sorry I'm gonna turn did you want to speak it all to the Ponderosa issues and it came up and I know a couple councilmembers one to hear an update on the transportation situation at Ponderosa sir I'll briefly reply to some of the concerns that were brought up on Ponderosa this the Ponderosa annexation this really isn't the maybe the correct venue for that and that will be coming to you in October but still I'll give a response to some of the things you can tell people how did ya just update everybody on the front where we are in the process and how they can access that

[105:00] process if they want yeah well I think the people that spoke know exactly how to navigate the process because they're they're part of the process some of them are on the the leadership team at Ponderosa and we had a meeting with him last night about some of these issues but other issues as well it's far I'll just hit a couple high notes one of the concerns was about the the monthly cost of moving into a home and that's partly dependent on what the person's income is if they have a higher income it would be a higher cost because we have will have different ami priced homes the point is is people at the lowest income we need to have a housing cost which meets their needs so the housing costs are typically going to be $800 a month and up depending on what their incomes

[106:02] are oh yeah and then the other one was the legally binding agreement allowing them to stay in the Ponderosa community there's there's a few different ways that that's demonstrated one was actually a City Council resolution that you passed I think a little over a year ago another is a letter that I've written to the residents describing that as well and then we're also looking at a way that that could possibly be captured in a new lease as well and it's also in the resident guide which is a document that they have that has all the sort of the answers and questions in its as well so curta attested CUC about the exit onto Broadway that's correct

[107:01] and have you addressed that yet I just thought that it was an issue that got brought up here sure so the the the Ponderosa annexation process has intersected with an existing project under Public Works and transportation for sort of the North Boulder area there on Broadway I think it's about the last ten blocks or so of a Broadway on the north side that is a project that will be beginning in early 2020 and I believe it's a process that started around 2014 which shows that certain exits from the community onto Broadway will be eliminated as as parcels are upgraded for this particular exits yourselves and

[108:04] Planning Board when we were here about a year ago gave us direction to try to keep that exit open on to Broadway however this flood mid as part of this project there's flood mitigation that's that's going on in that same location our engineer has worked with their engineers to try to find a solution where we could keep the exit as well as complete the flood flood mitigation there simply isn't enough land to do both so in the annexation agreement that you will see in October it shows exits out of Ponderosa in four different locations to the south and to the west as an alternative to that Kurt I wanted to follow up on the the pricing so are you saying that no one is going to be priced out none of

[109:00] the current residents are going to be priced out of Ponderosa that's correct and if they stay in there and their current manufactured home they would they would continue to rent as they're renting currently and and again just to reiterate you said that there is there are means in which to stabilize their remaining there so that there isn't any fear of displacement that's correct so it's your own record for the persons who are concerned about that and what would their recourse be if they felt that they were priced out or displaced because of costing well the if they stay in their current mobile home it would simply be their pad rents that's really their only cost related to remaining in the in the community no I was gonna wrap this up just credit just encourage you all

[110:02] before annexation agreement hearings to continue to explore ways to kind of get in writing the our combined response or promise to people can stay in their mobile homes yeah or as long as they want and the anak you said it again but this topic is coming back to us on when I think it's October 20 seconds okay and then those things are subject to change so keep checking because and it will be coming to planning board I think I'm September 5th okay but it'll come to us sometime in October so okay more broadly to the strategy thoughts from councilmembers Lisa could you explain I thought recently we had agreed with the mobile home community owners

[111:02] that rent increases would be limited to one time a year maybe we didn't or could you just expand upon that and I've heard recently from residents at Boulder Meadows and I think that order to Grove that their rent has gone up two times this year so my understanding is that a1 our city attorney what has engaged with the manufactured home community owners and I am not aware of that so that could have happened but I haven't been updated on that right on the on any kind of stabilizing a friend okay thank you yeah you didn't ask about Section eight vouchers yeah so could you speak to Section eight vouchers I thought that we

[112:00] had at least I think it was at Vista Village been able to have the owners there approve a section 8 voucher is that correct yeah that's correct so owners of manufactured home parks have to accept section 8 they can't discriminate against that one of the things that Crystal talked about earlier is pretty a document together that every resident of a mobile home community would have to say I'm having this problem this is who I contact mm-hmm and you know that's that's something that we're trying to put together to give an easier path you know for enforcement I would ask that that anyone that feels that they're having that concern now that they contact us okay and then I still I know people are

[113:00] trying to address it but I'm still concerned about some of the the age of the infrastructure and the failing of the infrastructure and I totally understand miss Simmons concern about overloading that infrastructure since it seems already somewhat over overloaded so I guess I'm curious how are you going to move forward on addressing that and I know at some point in this total conversation we had talked about would there be an ability to look at some of this infrastructure we can't get on to their land but residents continue to have issues such as sewage in their homes and all right do you mind if I move to that slide no I think it'd be great not there yet it's the first one

[114:02] so the to the two pathways would be establishing water and sewer standards mm-hmm so that would allow us we would set the standards and they would a lot of standards are set for new construction so these would be standards for existing communities the next opportunity listed here is identifying code constraints so maybe there is a there was a request to get more information on what has been updated maybe there isn't an interest in by communities in this and just trying to understand if there are barriers you know and then have a conversation from there about the we already have standards like them doesn't all infrastructure have to make stamp meet standards it does however as standards increase over time and these as these

[115:01] communities were built in the 1950s they likely met the standards at that time so unless they're you know adding on to the park or you know doing doing things that would require you know permits for infrastructure they're not required to upgrade at this point and then somebody well I think he's the chair of the HRC maquila he brought up the need to maybe have a full-time enforcement officer on our on our staff and what would be the likelihood of doing something like that and I want to pay attention to what Julia and onling had said to I mean I don't want to enforce so much that now we're causing these increases to the residents but these are residents of Boulder and so they should have exactly

[116:01] the same standards as any other resident Boulder right so under the licensing and enforcement topic the proposal is to try to understand determine an or analyze what the workload is right now and then you know that there could be identified a need for part-time or full-time staffing and then of course it would be a later proposal for that and in as these ordinances are adopted to try to really understand what the impacts are on our staffing and our ability to to support those ordinances and that really aligns with the accountability principle well I mean I know I think it was a torture Grove when they were having other water outages and then there's been some issues and I and

[117:01] I will I'm think we were stone for trying to address these and trying to stay on top of it I think Elizabeth your guidance has really tried hard but I don't know if it's been fully successful and so what happens is that you have residents there being the eyes and ears and calling the city and then calling the county and our wonderful neighborhood liaison and really trying to get somebody to address this concern and I don't think it should be upon the residents to have to be the watchdog of their community I mean we all need to be watchdogs to some extent but it just gets a little bit onerous and I do have concern about individuals who are watchdogs being retaliated against for doing that so anyway and there was

[118:00] somebody here who did speak about section aid assistance and she's a senior and she talked about rent increases and she was concerned about the safety net for safety for seniors and that at Boulder Meadows that she hasn't been able to seek or secure or whatever any kind of a section 8 voucher and you know I can't imagine going into your senior years and being so insecure in terms of where you're going to be able to live when you've been responsible your whole life and you've had this home and now you're less able to afford it okay so one other comment I will make is that I do think we have plenty of land for more mobile home parks and I've said it before we have this Airport that is utilized by maybe 200 people not all

[119:02] residents in the city of Boulder that's 140 acres and we did get it onto the Boulder Valley comp plan that we can consider that for other uses than just airport uses and so I would really encourage you looking at this Airport it is out of the floodplain it's a beautiful site it would be a beautiful site for manufactured homes and for a resident owned mobile home community so that we could do a rock-type community here in Boulder and we owned that property and it's really not of worth to the city it's not of worth to most people and there's a much higher use for that land I would likewise a and Cindy brought it up a few weeks ago that there was a property owner in area 2 who has I think

[120:00] about 12 acres of land along Jay and I would encourage you to reach out to mr. Luna and see if there's some ability for us to at least start discussing land banking and then and that's all area 2 and then I'll bring up that beloved area 3 and there are some parcels in area 3 that are right adjacent to developments right now that would love to participate and and help on lower-income and in maybe mobile home type community but I think there's lots of places to go and so I wouldn't say we don't have many opportunities I would say that we have a lot of opportunities and as I mentioned earlier we have our ours and our our ease and our L zones that we could also

[121:02] look into and allow manufactured homes to occupy so I had a quick question and then we have Aaron my question is somebody I think I'll Park owner or a representative zero who talked about that we charge the park at the higher level of the water budget because they are considered one users and as we look for ways to both incentivize that kind of win wins here I'm just wondering whether in exchange for infrastructure upgrades grades or even meters at each if we move two meters for each manufactured house we couldn't help get to a lower rate any I'm just again looking at win-wins and have you guys thought about that or what am I not thinking about yeah we can certainly look into it yeah I mean currently from

[122:02] what I understand they're actually at the the lowest rate they could be because it's a rate for the whole community it becomes more expensive when you meet her individually the water rate becomes more expensive but there there may be other ways to accomplish the same thing without changing to a separate the city type meter system and I think the the mechanism for that would be the voluntary agreement yeah yeah I was just yeah looking for win-win - all right so I want to follow up on a point that Julie vandeman from FMA and it was about affordability so I think it's very important that affordability is one of our key guiding principles but she she zoomed in on the language that guiding principle says that the manufactured housing should remain no more expensive than the average for market rate rental housing I thought she made a great point that that's probably too low of a bar that we should seek to have it be no more than average market

[123:02] rate rental cos then you're not really affordable anymore you're right there at the market rate so I mean do you have any thoughts on that but maybe do you want to defend that language or maybe could we change that any thoughts on changing it so I think the it's it's a percentage increase so it's not a it's not a dollar amount so the the market rates for a 2-bedroom apartment are probably higher much higher than they are for a two-bedroom manufactured home and so we were trying to stick to the the that it wouldn't go higher than the percentage increase that's don't say that okay maybe we need to clarify the language on that because right now it just says no more expensive than the average for a market rate rental housing which sounds like an absolute number rather than a percentage number I would agree with that page this is in the guiding principles I'm on page 889 the crackin

[124:01] yeah yeah so I've just I mean I think this is a great strategy I'm go ahead speak good all right great so moving in the comments thank you for all of your work I think this is a great step forward appreciate from hearing from all the residents and you're deeply how much they care about that can you use how much they love their communities tonight see this is a great step forward in terms of helping them stay in their communities allowing them to continue to thrive so I look forward to adopting this tonight I don't have any particular edits other than this one thing we run the language and the affordability which I think we would benefit from a rewording but I'm very enthusiastic why'd you make that motion I move that we adopt the manufactured housing strategy second and action plan subject to this one I do want to work on that yourself and come back to us or woody we could do that yes okay

[125:01] good those who haven't spoken I just had some comments it regarding the public comment it yeah I think ill team I didn't so the code enforcement and code navigation how you know how that will work with the oversight legislation that were just passed and to make sure that residents are clear on how that navigation and enforcement happens because it sounds like there's still a lot of residents that either aren't aware or don't know how to lodge a complaint against an ordinance so raising awareness that's something that that seems like is sorely needed again to julievan dominance point about unintended consequences of things like

[126:03] the upgrading the infrastructure and how that could affect so just as just to remain cognizant as we move forward of those unintended consequences and that's it but I really appreciate all the work that you all put into it and also understanding that a lot of the implementation will be part of future work plans for council to decide and so you know prioritizing what those should be would be helpful thank you I'll just be brief I thought this was a really nice piece of work I thought it did a nice job of bringing together the background as well as the list of things that we need to be watching going forward as far as legislation goes and you know ordinances that we might want

[127:01] to adopt so I appreciate staff doing and I appreciate the mobile home community members being part of that process and I encourage you to stay involved with it because that prioritization that married just we'll be one of the important next steps and so I thought it was a really nice piece of work starting from guiding principles and it followed our 9 step decision-making process fairly well so I also appreciated because we worked hard on both the public participation and kind of our decision-making steps so I thought it was a nice job on that front - thank you I'm just gonna ditto that and just add let us know about legislation next year I guess you have sort of a prioritized plan but I would think doing a mix of new ordinances or whatever if they're needed but also just making sure people are being taken care of kind of that makes us what I think we need taking into account what Julie just said in the end we need to make sure

[128:00] people stay housed and you can get what they need while we look to kind of the longer term as well so that a nice mix that the next council is going to get to deal with it seems to me that you might want to take this page of the strategy was kind of the timeline and make sure it makes it into the next councils thinking of their work plan so that it becomes a working document I do appreciate all the work that's gone on to it and the feedback and we'll just keep trying to get it right we are all in this together anything else so I just wanted to follow up from just what the point you were making about this being a working document you know we've kind of talked at CSC about as we handoff from phase ones and projects to phase twos of projects that there will be kind of briefing packets around several different subjects for new council members I think that's a fantastic idea and so zan suggestion is perfect for

[129:02] this component of it but I just wanted to mention to the full council that it's easy we've talked about trying to formalize some of the handoffs of some of the stuff that has faced ones and phase twos to the next council and I would just add to my colleagues comments a big THANK YOU and this has been a lot of work but I think it's been well worth the work and I would just ask people to just stay involved and while people try to diminish that you're a small population a small slice of our population you're a critical part of our community so I just thank you for for doing this and truly look for more opportunities for mobile home works thank you okay we have said all that we need to say okay all those

[130:02] in favor of adopting the manufacturer housing strategy and action plan with the caveat that was major the amendment okay all those in favor it is unanimous all right thanks everyone okay your next public hearing is first reading and a motion to adopt as an emergency ordinance 8333 and resolution 153 regarding the Bumba taxable certain certificates of participation the wrong will change over we'll just note that those of us who have an agenda it's one hearing for both of those items together

[131:04] well staffer getting settled on tonight's presentation will be led by Julia Richman the chief innovation and technology officer as well as Cara Skinner the Assistant Director for finance there will be a brief overview of just where we've been with broadband before we get into the financial aspect we needed snacks we need one more okay

[132:00] we have a core good evening Council I'm Julia Richmond the city's chief innovation and technology officer we're gonna walk you through just a quick presentation on broadband to refresh your memories on where we are with the project we're going and then we'll present the financial summary for financing the project and go through information on the certificates of participation so if you recall you set the guiding principles for the development of a broadband backbone which are the following six things citywide access equitable inclusive future-oriented creating a competitive marketplace focusing on net neutrality and creating a model that allows for open access so we're continuing to follow those guiding principles as we build the strategy and then eventually the backbone as a reminder why we're doing this the backbone is the first step in

[133:01] building the future desired model of a city owned or city run ISP we believe its core connectivity and core infrastructure for the city and it will serve as the base of technology for city and community operations going forward and you know this is an essential part of future proofing the city this is a slide with tiny font but where we are with the project is we're just entering 30% design which means we've moved from the high-level design to detailed design and our first meeting internal meeting on that is tomorrow actually so we're meeting with you at a timely point in the project and what that means is in the high-level design we just talked about what streets it's on and in the detailed design we talked about what side of the street in the hardscape and the soft scape where the connections are how the Rings are laid out and and the like we will then move quickly into 60% design and

[134:01] will begin to issue the construction procurement documents in late to mid September and hopefully select a vendor mid-october or no mid-november between mid October November and aiming to start construction in December of this year so that's all progressing forward nicely as a reminder the backbone model that we're looking at is about 60 55 miles of dark fiber backbone and about 10 miles of fiber laterals off of the backbone which will connect high-priority areas that we met with you to discuss in April and that financial model that we reviewed in April we've subsequently refined as a result of fielding work around the city reviewing the city's existing conduit

[135:01] and updating the cost model in the refinement of the backbone the backbone cost estimate is currently running at fifteen point eight million if you recall from two years ago when we started to do this with you our estimate was at about fifteen million so we're pretty close to the estimate that we started with a couple of good news updates from the last time we met when we met in April we had talked about how we could reuse the city's existing conduit and at that time we had begun the process and we're having pretty bad luck with looking at our existing conduit since that time we finished that work and it actually turns out that we can use a significant amount of existing conduit which saved us about a million and a half dollars so that's great news and brought the cost down so good news on that side and then one note on the proofing for the existing conduit that line item there will actually be less we're waiting for the final invoice and

[136:00] we've spent probably 40 or 50 thousand dollars versus 170,000 dollars then the second table you see on this slide refers to the additional investment in laterals that we talked with you and got approval for in April and just to remind you what that is it's sort of the difference between the highway and a side road or the highway and Broadway and the laterals will help the city to connect with a number of high-priority areas so just to refresh your memory the design will go will touch about a hundred and sixty signals in the city and so we'll be able to connect the traffic signals in the city with fiber laterals which will allow us to advance a lot of the transportation goals that are in the recently discussed transportation master plan we will connect about 20 affordable housing sites managed and partnering

[137:00] with bhp we have gotten a couple of laterals to our TD sites and one of the follow-ups from counsel at that time was to ask RTD to pay for that and what you see there is a cost reflected and we're at the point where we've gotten to now is that RTD actually has really valuable fiber that runs along 36 that will be important to our fiber infrastructure as well and so we're gonna end up doing a fiber swap with them and that so that isn't reflected there but that's the net cost for that construction will connect the safety the public safety towers for the radio system in the city and then of course and then the new library site so all told and that is our estimates are at about eighteen point five million this can includes a twenty percent contingency that is reflected in the the primary backbone build cost as well so with that I'll turn it over to Carra

[138:02] thank you car scanner assistant director of finance the item that's before you tonight is actually requesting approval of the project financing and what is proposed is taxable certificates of participation and we're proposing simple because of the proposed use of the proceeds and we need flexibility co-pays are a form of lease purchase financing between the city and bumpa or people know it is bump a boulder municipal property authority and COP investors are actually buying an interest or a share in the annual rental payments that the city makes to bumpa for the leased property so while there's no direct city revenue pledge the CEO peas are secured by collateral and the collateral that we're proposing for this financing is the municipal building that we are in this evening and the land under it and the atrium building and its

[139:02] land this type of financing is subject to annual appropriation so it's not considered a multiple year fiscal obligation under Tabor and the ordinance and the resolution before you tonight are such that you'll be approving the financing per certain parameters and those parameters are that we will issue twenty million dollars the maximum annual rental payments will be less than one point six million dollars currently the financial adviser believes those manual acts maximum annual rental payments will be about 1.4 million dollars market may shift a little bit between now and closing or sale and then the term is less than 20 years although we're anticipating a 20-year term and then the true interest cost needs to be less than five percent and again the financial advisor at this time is anticipating the true interest cost to

[140:01] be approximately three point five percent might go up and down between now and then so assuming that the ordinance and the resolution is approved tonight the next steps would be for us to have our ratings presentation on August 15th and that will be with Moody's the financial advisors recommended we only need one rating for this issuance and then on September 10th we will have the competitive sale and then the closing and the receipt of proceeds would be on September 26th so with that we do have a number of motion the first would be essentially a motion to approve the financing to not to exceed 20 million dollars to fund the backbone of the project as described by Julia and to approve other financing documents and that's the emergency resolution that you would approve as City Council and then you would adjourn as the City Council and convene as the board of directors of bumpa and then again motion to approve the financing and then again a journey as the board of

[141:00] directors and reconvening is the Boulder City Council so with that if you have any questions on the ladders to go to the 20 bhp properties who's gonna serve as the ISP for those residents is that fine we're gonna be sold to leased to a isp or how are they gonna get connectivity so the current model that we're working through and we don't have formal agreements but this is in the discussion phase with bhp is that will provide fiber to the site and then they will provide public Wi-Fi basically in the building so we'll light the fiber using the Front Range Giga pop which is the city's ISP and then basically create a free public Wi-Fi model in each of those facilities and that'll be an interim approach that's obviously not the you know most commercially viable approach but we believe it'll improve

[142:01] access in all of those sites and the idea is that the city would provide services up up to the building and then bhp would provide services within the buildings that's great and then I can't remember from April did we look at doing something similar with the mobile home parks so we're meeting with the Ponderosa team tomorrow to make sure that we can run laterals as part of the plan you just discussed and we have not spoken with the other manufactured homeowners in the community obviously the ones that are owned separately are a different process have you tried to price out what those laterals are on those forward to the not at this time that was gonna be my question and regarding the equitable access and the parks are or that mobile home communities are pretty important okay thank you are we doing this

[143:00] together I have a question about some of the descriptions and I'm not sure if we have to be adjourned to go into the other phase with the preliminary official statement attachment II mmm-hmm we're having a joint hearing on both it's just for approval that we have to do that so the question is on page 650 you talk to give a description of the city and the governing body and you talk about the name and the office the number of years of service there the principal occupation of the councilmembers and some of those are incorrect they have to be correct in order for this to be valid and how would those Corrections be made and and then also just in the it talks about the governing body and then it goes into administrative personnel and with the first sentence says the council

[144:01] consists of nine members selected for staggered for in two-year terms and then the second one goes into the actual city administration so this is really kind of not very cohesive and there are parts that are incorrect and that have to do with the city charter and where it stands now and where it has stood before so this is page 658 yeah it's in the that's definitely correct my years of service is wrong they do have the expiration for the right time but yes and and also saying things like I don't understand why it says on November 2nd 1999 voters approved an amendment to the city's Charter removing term limits for council members I think that's just the opposite of what has happened in 1999 doesn't seem to be very pertinent here in terms of how we are actually

[145:00] governing this city now so something I can go through these things but I could also just send them in or what where did you get your information in terms of our new intern I think these are assembled by a financing team bond Council we have new financial advisors and so possibly you know the learning curve for the new financial advisors but these are preliminary documents and Erin may also want to speak to this but what you're approving tonight is these documents in substantially the same form and we can still make changes to them and correct these mistakes before the official statement or that even the preliminary official statement is posted so we will definitely make a thorough review okay it's to years off or more I think they may have carried over error information from a previous issuance and so that may be an issue

[146:00] Cindy's been here twice so we'll make sure that they're corrected and and again these documents are in being approved in substantive the same time there will still be other things amended in the preliminary official statement that it's a working document that we are working on in reviewing up until then the sale I think we need to honor Cindy with the honorary law degree tonight and maybe like are you not sleeping because this is some minutia it's my I'm actually not a retired teacher but I do have some editorial background huh yeah I'm impressed Erin yeah kudos for the detail of the details so just on the how much we're paying going forward so it's approximately 1.4 million dollar annual payments and those are just being incorporated in our annual budgets out of the general fund correct that's correct and so it's just

[147:01] it's just a new line item in the budget that we just have a room for correct it's out of the general find in the general fund capital which council had established a couple years ago most it'll be in that line of a however much a year that are cracked up room so you'll see that when the council was presented with the budget this year thanks and just what was the number of bhp facilities we're connecting to it in about twenty about twenty great thank you go ahead by Wednesday I don't know this is quite pertaining to we're talking about that backbone leading into the bhp affordable housing units as well as hopefully into our mobile home parks but just for residents who are listening right now and interested in how individual households are gonna get this can you guys just speak to that for just a few minutes on when the feasibility so at this time the only plan that we have

[148:02] is for the backbone the difference in cost between building the backbone and getting to a full ISP is about a hundred and twenty million dollars and at the time we met with council to pick this option there wasn't financing available for that so council at any time has the option to figure out how to pay for that but for now we're focusing on making sure that the backbone is optimized and then when you're ready we can start to make the next plan great things I just I know a lot of people are excited about this and so to make sure that they and if I can add to the that this is the very important step that the council is making and this is a step that many communities who do have community broadband this is the first step into that conversation that you're referring to mayor by and the conversation of is the city the ISP or is there a

[149:01] partnership that's for me this doesn't preclude either option correct Lisa so I had a question about the collateral that were using to secure this and we're we've picked the municipal building where we sit right now and our land as well as the atrium building I find that interesting but out of council meetings how no I want to know how you decided those those buildings and given some of our plans these buildings aren't going to be here maybe in 20 years so what do you do about that well we did look at the possibilities across the city and the financial advisor did advise that we use facilities that are considered essential

[150:00] for core municipal services so like we could said considered some recreation centers possibly but they said that it would be better collateral if we use the municipal building in the atrium building so they actually thought that these were good sources of collateral some buildings are already encumbered by the gops that were issued in 2015 and then there are other buildings that the city has that don't seem like such good candidates for a variety of reasons and maybe Tanya would speak to that right and if you could address my question about 20 years five years from now I mean so so the reason the parks facilities were not chosen is because the future capital needs that parks has and the need to reserve those for potential Co PS for example reinvestment in one of the community centers for example if the council makes a decision

[151:03] on the two assets this building or the atrium then we would have the opportunity to relook at this financing and then the debt would have to initiate in essence be renewed both buildings both buildings yep but so let's say there's a decision hypothetically on the atrium that would be the call to action to revise this action and look at other CEO piece and and what will this bring what will be our total CEO piece debt that this will bring us to I mean because we enough made this comment before but we never started doing this until really recently and this makes me really uncomfortable because we're I mean you just talked about oh if we want to know revamp our rec centers we can use CEO piece on

[152:01] those and I I'm very nervous doing this because this is putting us in debt this is putting us in our assets and debts and and somebody I mean it's like 15 how much is do we have today in COP debt so at the end of 2018 the principal outstanding on the existing CEO piece was 37 million and what and so this is now 20 more and so now we're moving it up to 57 million I had two questions one question one is here today we've been opportunistic about laying down fiber whenever we had to rip up the road for something else starting in December we're gonna move from being opportunistic to actually go digging up

[153:01] going under construction and and then you've probably already said this but can you remind the public how long that will take we expect construction to take two years and part of the next phase of the project that we're in right now before we begin construction is optimizing the design based on what we know of other projects happening in the city so we can also be opportunistic in that where if a part of the street is ripped up or another project we can put the you know backbone assets in there at the same time so you know some of the work that's happening on Broadway will do that you know we know of other firms that are you know with plans in the city to do other fiber projects and things like that so we'll we'll base our design schedule on construction that we know of so that we can a reduce the impacts to the community and be you know reduce our costs okay okay I have another question everybody has another question but you can jump in on this one mine follows up

[154:02] on yours is what well it has to do with the building okay mine has to do with tearing up the street and they do that one and then we'll go back to the buildings and then we'll so will you be given that we've been working on municipal ization for some time will you be looking at taking opportunities to put whatever infrastructure you might need for future municipal ization efforts so the municipal ization team is a part of the broadband team and we work really closely with them if you recall from our council meeting last I think January time frame we looked at optimizing the cost and putting in municipal municipal ization assets energy assets at the same time and it it saved a little bit of money but it was so perspective that it create additional financial risks so while we are optimizing the design based on the need of the Muni in the future we will not

[155:02] likely be putting assets in the ground as part of the construction impression so when the Muni comes around you'd be digging up again correct that's right so for the core backbone you had for fiber-to-the-home you know I'm talking about the backbone just the core back then the core backbone should serve both functions okay is it a true statement that if the construction of the backbone will always necessitate digging up streets that you might be able to put it in the right-of-way outside of the street itself so wouldn't always have to dig up a street that's right yeah because I think we'll see a lot of the construction will be lower impact right in the soft skateboard oh yeah okay we have Sydney then we're going to Midway so so mine follows under sans and lisas and Erin's which is I'm looking at the the map of where the fiber is supposed to go the backbone and

[156:00] it goes up 119 and then it looks as though you just go cross-country from one 1981 though I don't know what page it is it's the one the map is oh there we go okay and the backbone goes up 119 - somewhat somewhere around it looks like settlers park or that area and then it cuts over to sunshine Canyon Drive and comes back down sunshine Canyon Drive and then it continues up 4th Street and I'm wondering why that route was particularly chosen and if that has I mean because there you're digging into practically the Red Rocks we actually have conduit already in that locations area you've optimized based on that and who how was that for what was that put in that'll be our I don't know the answer to that but it was put in it couldn't that be where they just laid the new pipe I think that's right the

[157:00] new pipe did I think that is right and that just happened so that was City right I got a listing having to do with an O would probably annexation possibly that's right at any rate I was just wondering that looks opportunistic as well the way that it goes but it it also goes by the new 311 site or the old 311 site okay I'm jumping back to Lisa's stuff with Co PS and I don't know if you guys have this or could possibly get it but do you have any data on other cities of similar budget size of how much CO peas they tend to have so I will say it is a very common form of financing in the state of Colorado particularly for facilities so I would I don't have that off the top of my head but I would say that it is very common cities of our size to have certificates of participation and I quantity wise I mean because we're looking at 37 all

[158:00] 57 I don't have that in my back pocket I do know of some studies that might have up to 100 to 200 million dollars of SU isseo piece okay if I could just come find it on this mirror base question but we only started doing these recently so how is it a common practice if we only started doing him recently did everybody else only start doing recently - I can try to answer that a little bit I think because it's the way around Tabor so if some municipalities may have jumped on that back when bag bandwagon earlier but since Tabor has been introduced this has been the way to have something that's not debt that is subject to Tabor so so I believe it has become more common in Colorado even though we may be relatively new to it you know I mean but

[159:00] Tabor was like 1991 or something like that and in my recollection we only started doing this like five or six years ago it has been used by I know a number of cities across more complete information and could speak a little bit more to the collateral the other thing to note is that the buildings get released as we pay down principal and so the first building scheduled to be released is the atrium building but we can always swap out collateral anytime during the term of the CEO piece so if we wanted to substitute a different building for one of the two currently proposed buildings to be pledged we can do that great thank you for that Bob and then coming back to me so my question probably parlays off of that on financing may I ask a good question before about this these are flexibility options open to either run an ISP ourselves or to maybe sell some or all

[160:01] of this fiber to somebody else if I run an ISP later down the road if that second thing happened if somebody came to us and said Jesus we relied run an ISP will invest the money but you guys had some really sweet fiber hair you spent 20 million dollars on it we'd like to buy it from you for whatever that number is I assume care that we can pay down debt as is there any prepayment penalty of some in 20 million dollars in our lap could we go back to the CFP holders and pay off somewhere all of that debt at our discretion I believe there's a time sometimes there's a lock upgrade for a few years and then let me double-check that for a moment and others okay one more question for me and that just is maybe this is an obvious question but I just want to make sure I understand in the social impacts on page 504 we talked about this fiber project is going to be an early participant and involved in the racial equity instrument that the city

[161:02] is now adopting through our work with the government Alliance on race and equity does that mean we're gonna go to a BH Boulder housing partner projects it's that what we're talking about what does that mean so the broadband project is actually tying together a number of different initiatives that the city is working on and the racial equity project is part of that or program as part of that so we're working with a partner at the Harvard Kennedy School through our Wetwork Cities program the city of boulders at what work city and Harvard is giving us some resources to help improve our procurement processes focusing on the equity lens so in this we are looking at new ways of engaging the vendor community around the broadband construction project to try and improve the diversity and inclusiveness with which we are engaging vendors so we're planning on having

[162:00] potentially more meetings before the RFP is released to make sure that a broader audience is engaged in this work and understand the construction that we're looking to bid out we're trying to change some of the language that we use in our standard templates such that it is available and accessible to more and different types of people in this construction community and looking at different sort of procurement models for how we do that such that we're not just working with this typical players and instead you know sort of looking at additional options for vendors that's really hopeful I'm glad that you mentioned that and I think that that would be something that would be worth letting us know how it goes sure as our first instrument okay with that shall we turn to the public hearing can I just add to that we will include updates in our quarterly racial equity

[163:01] updates that council receives as part of the IP a little context on the procurement before entering into the contractual relationship with Jerr this year under the guidance from our two council members who serve on the subcommittee the guiding coalition Gere interviewed approximately 20 community members and procurement was one area that the community members expressed desire for the city to look at through a racial equity lens and so we're following through on that feedback that we've received with this project this will be the first project that we will be truly testing the racial equity instrument and so that's where the follow up to council and the community will be important in this space thank you yes so optional redemption after ten years and then I just also want to take

[164:01] the opportunity to remind you that this is an emergency ordinance that we're proposing so the one reading so just to go back to the issue of where the fibers can be put in the backbone will we be able to leverage the brand network conduit it's in place I don't think that we're using any brand conduit it's not necessarily owned by the city and so the conduit that we're reusing is just city-owned conduit and I'm looking at Tim's got our consultant is that correct okay is there an opportunity to leverage what brand put in because my breath election when that went in is they over built capacity I don't know if it was conduit or just dark fiber capacity but it certainly seems like that would be one way to avoid digging up anything in certain parts of the city where pretty core we have and it's not necessarily something that the that

[165:01] they're interested in okay we have a public hearing I'm using three minutes Carolyn can you come on up if you could start with your name and address I would be great hi my name is Carolyn Vince key and I live at 273 Lyon point and bolder and next month and I'm here tonight representing Boulder 5g action and recently we were talking to you about the dangers of 5g and the preemption of 5g and the loss of local control through some of the state legislation and FCC rulings and we want to thank you for pursuing a fiber optics municipal

[166:02] broadband infrastructure that is a safe alternative to wireless systems and particularly important right now given that we are gonna be 5g is going to be using parts of the electromagnetic spectrum that is particularly dangerous from what we understand and security against hackers and surveillance industry to make decisions just like was the Excel and also uses a lot more energy than wired

[167:02] systems and I do wish we could take some of the money from the Pentagon and put it into working with you over the next year to reverse the preemption of local control over trying to create local broadband by supporting SP 152 which

[168:09] some cities can't afford it so those are some things we can be looking forward at the state legislature and thank you again for all your efforts and really making this network something that the citizens can citizens control rather than big telecom thank you Thank You Carolyn you greetings everybody thank you for being here and holding this public hearing my name is you why you legally you MA nickname and everything that Carolyn been in ski just said I did oh I don't just spend time going through the same information again that she's just given to you as far as the support that we are really encouraging you keep

[169:00] moving forward with this wiring broadband bring it into the city's control we don't need to have the telecom industry wireless industry controlling things in this realm and as far as the finances go it's beyond me it's over here but thank you very much and keep proceeding and I'll keep aware of how it's going and you'll see me again Thanks thank you thank you 35 38 do we I don't think we need the Pentagon I think we need WW Rendell's Steven Tebow some of the developers in town that are causing our housing crisis here and I think they need impact fees and I think you need to figure out how to do impact fees to each development towards the public broadband and the digging of the

[170:02] dark fiber so let the people that that were you know we have a deficit so much we never have enough for affordable housing and we never have enough to have our own to own our own broadband we have two partnership with people no we don't we can do fine on our own we need to charge the people that are causing the problem in first place I'm I applaud you for doing the dark fiber and forgetting it online and I'm completely opposed to 5g and I heard that some of the production from Julia last time and the other guy that showed the spectrum is really broad and we aren't going to use 5g anyway and where it's dangerous we're gonna use it in the lower level parts of the spectrum I'm not an expert in this time in the life sciences but to me that sound that unknown of the high high end of the

[171:02] spectrum for 5g is it's kind of a slippery slope if we allow 5g anywhere at you know south boulder part where you know the verizon thing then we've got the slippery slope where we could get in to five g's so I I'm opposed to any kind of 5g thing in any way and let's just get our fiber laid and then we've still got our cell phones if we want so it's good to go and thanks for for supporting the dark fiber networks the backbone thank you yeah thanks and and to everywhere of course it's gonna you know and to the lower able populations okay James I wanted to raise the question because I don't know the answer to when it becomes appropriate to spend a little

[172:02] more money to run a utility chase when you have to dig up for anything and I don't know to what extent there might be other utilities that could share it share a utility chase but I know that in some communities where I grew up back east there's a very old infrastructure that's in some cases never been upgraded and so they end up digging up and burying and digging up and burying and digging up and burying so I'm just curious if there's been any examination of the opportunity to run utility chase that could be used for multiple purposes Thanks good thank you okay with that we will close the public hearing I'll just make a dummy make the motion okay so this is a City Council motion

[173:01] first okay can I just say I move what's on the screen that's not good enough for the lawyers okay that's what I move in a second so just um I guess I make a request for flood this is great great work I remember in the August or September 2015 sitting in the back room is the City Council candidate watching a presentation I think it's before you were here Julia of what could possibly be is I feel like this is a landmark miles is a milestone and so thanks for all the hard work to you and your team over the last four years to getting this to finally a place where we're gonna actually start installing fiber and I know it's not premiere wise point it's not exactly all the way to where we like to be but it certainly is is a good first step of a good first phase one the request I'd make Julia is um because I know that you've had some pleasant surprise here on the use for the conduit and I imagine you've had some continues disease contingencies built in here so you're a little hopefully little Headroom and I

[174:01] know we're borrowing a little bit more money than we actually need my request is if at some point time you could investigate what it cost to build laterals to our mobile home parks and and do the same arrangement as we are with PHP where we through our ISP put up Wi-Fi that's accessible to our neighborhoods that maybe that's phase one B for you and you can come back to us at some point time and say it's gonna cost X hundred thousand dollar imagine it's gonna be hundreds of thousands and not the millions and if you could come back to us and let us know and if if it fits within the envelope of the financing were authorizing tonight that would be really great does that reflect everybody absolutely especially when you think of my understanding is and the average rate of people connected to the Internet in mobile home parks is like 15% and so that puts the people there at a big disadvantage and especially the children who increasingly are dependent on

[175:02] computers and the Internet great just one note on that so one of the benefits of Ponderosa is that we can build fiber into the neighborhood and the difference with the other communities is that we can build fiber to the community but maybe not in it and that's a whole separate negotiation but um I just want to ask a clarifying question if we fit within the envelope do you want me to come back for approval or just add it to our plan I'd be happy to add at someone you might make it this is I'm just speaking for myself it might be the information point you might just let us know where you're doing it and how much it cost but from my perspective I'd be happy to give you authority tonight to do the laterals if it fits within the findings can envelope you have on how others feel about that good point or questions next so so I support that just keep in mind that you know like with a bhp apartment building you can build to

[176:00] one place and then have wireless serve probably the whole building or they can do a little bit internally just with like Boulder Meadows is a very large place all right so I just I agree with that but just not to set false expectations that suddenly everyone will have internet within the mobile home parks if we build a lateral to one entrance so worth doing you focus it on the community centers probably you know and hopefully can penetrate a little bit further but just don't want to be unrealistic okay go ahead looking at this this 119 there if it had gone if it had been on Pearl Street it would have gone right by Glen willow which is affordable housing low-income housing that's been there forever and there isn't that much going up Canyon so I would just point out that where it's feasible that those things are done and I wish I had been able to draw the map it's my regret

[177:00] so on the on the idea of Boulder Meadows you know if you pull a lateral and then you do for instance an omni antenna and have other there are there ways to do that kind of last mile kind of access so that if you have the fiber that comes to the edge of the property there are various approaches you can take to get people wireless and I think that that would be in the scope of what we're talking about right so the lateral to the edge of the park and then whatever it takes to get access to people within the park so I that's how I would would say it I think this is great thank you for teeing it up so nicely you're making it so clear and what the budget is going for and what we're gonna get I think when we talked about this when we decided to move forward with it the phrase we used was no regrets and this is one of those no regret steps that keeps our optionality fully open as to what we do going forward for business arrangements for the Muni broadband so

[178:01] thank you and yes yes to that I think I know it took us a while to get here but I think it's a very good place to be and thank you for also using this as an instrument to advance other city goals like our procurement equity okay shall we vote could we have a second a second oh sorry okay okay it's a roll call vote we start with councilmember Weaver hi Yates hi young yes Brockett all right Carlisle I Jones aye where's L yes motion passes unanimously still another motion no yeah I do the next bit and now we have to reconvene we only have three separate votes freaking it's one one motion can can I make this one yes I'll move what's on the screen

[179:01] play this and this is a very exciting project by the way I'm yeah great step forward so second to do that can be show of hands all those in favor it is unanimous thank you okay okay your final item tonight discussion of a nod of five regarding lifting the medium-density overlay zone in a small section of University Hill Chris mess checkers can talk to us about this but if I could just say a little bit cuz I asked if it's not a five it's in particular about one parcel up on the hill which had a duplex that burnt down and and somebody bought the property with the intention to build a triplex there which fits with the medium density zoning of the district and upon trying to pull apartment discover that there was this medium density overlay zone that allowed nothing other than single-family homes to be built in this

[180:00] six block region of the University Hill so just that knowing that we've been talking a lot about trying to look for alternatives to very large single-family homes which is apparently the only thing that's allowed because of this overlay zone I just thought I'd bring forward to see if we could find an alternative to that you know six or seven thousand square foot how much is this sort of buy right a loud thing apps yeah this Chris is gonna yeah I thought it would be helpful for us to put together some maps so after the intro from Aaron thank you tonight is really to talk about the medium density overlay zone what I thought would be helpful first is first to just explain a little bit of what what is this overlay zone and why do we have it as we described in the short packet materials the medium density overlay zone was created in 1995 and as you can see it was an actually in

[181:00] several area surrounding downtown it's really the dark solid areas on the map so you can see the Whittier neighborhood is included in the in the overlay zone areas of Grande vu as well as University held down at the bottom part of the map and it was really created after a development moratorium and it was in the context of if you remember kind of the early 1990s we were going through the integrated planning project and of what's best what's left and and we had up zoned a whole bunch of neighborhoods in the 1970s around the downtown core warehouse behind the house came from if you've heard of that and in the early 90s we were hearing lots of concern from residents about the really the character of their neighborhoods changing so this was a tool we used in our toolbox to address those concerns then in 1997 we did a comprehensive rezoning and a whole

[182:01] bunch of areas of the city and at that time we then changed the zoning in the Whittier neighborhood and several others that are circled here on the map and when we revised that zoning we essentially locked in a lot of what the the tools of this overlay zone were and so we revised so when you see the overlay zone today it really is limited to four areas of town all limited in the rm2 zoning districts so at the top of the map you can see that's kind of near KC middle school and then you can see in the middle of the map that's Grand View Terrace and then in the bottom of the map is the University Hill area which is the subject of our conversation for tonight if we zoom into that just to kind of orient you the block areas are from Aurora at the north to baseline on the south and then from basically 17th Street to 19th Street and so that's the

[183:02] geographic area that this overlay zone applies to and again it's just limited to that medium density area that's on the hill when we zoom in there's a hundred and thirty-two parcels within this geographic area there's 208 housing units in this area so most of the properties are already duplex or triplex in this area the property that were that specifically has raised this question is on the map where the red star is and as Erin mentioned this property historically had a duplex on it the parcel is currently vacant according to the base zoning you could build a triplex on that property by right but with the overlay zone it's limited to a single-family home you could subdivide the parcel based on its size into two single-family homes so they could go through a subdivision process and build two detached dwelling units but no attached dwelling units with the overlay

[184:00] zone what's the exact address 756 18th Street and another quick question if they were to subdivide into two would they have the same far as if it were just one so would these be to smaller homes that's a good question I think and I'm going off a memory here i think the rn2 zoning district is an open space based zoning district but I'm going off a memory so if it is they would be to smaller homes then wouldn't they or would you combine the open space for it would be it be open space per parcel right correct open space per dwelling unit right direct and that tends to make smaller dwelling units right yeah and just the geographic size obviously if the parcel would you you'd be limited based on setbacks and that sort of thing actually thank you and just for those of us who weren't on planning board the

[185:02] difference between zoning and an overlay zone is how would you describe that great questions so think of zoning kind of describes what what can you do on a piece of land so what can you what uses can go on it how big can buildings be on it how many housing units can be on it so that's zoning an overlay zone is a tool that can be used to think of it as truly an overlay on top of the zoning that can then add additional restrictions or allowances so it can be a layered approach so in this case they have medium density zoning and then this overlay limits that - or limits it just to single-family homes even if the zoning allows the duplex or triplex and it's a little nonsensical it can be confusing and I think in this it doesn't make sense yeah

[186:01] okay but we have questions but are you done I've got a few more slides why don't we just see if he's going to answer I'm glad so part of what we wanted to look at is okay of all of these properties that are in with this area how many of them could you build a duplex or triplex on today and so we did that quick analysis 30 of the 132 parcels based on the zoning regulations would be eligible for a duplex or a triplex today so then we asked the question of okay yeah I'm about to answer that so of those 30 parcels how many of them are a duplex or a triplex or a single-family home today and how many of them have additional dwelling unit potential and the answer to that is for four of these parcels could have additional dwelling units for a total of six additional housing units so of those

[187:01] four parcels that are shown on green on the map the one that is the label on the top left that's this property that we've been talking about currently has zero do island units could have three if the overlay zone were not in existence and then the other three you can see currently have either a duplex or a single-family home and could get one additional unit each and that's what I got could you go in there so if we gave you the night of five tonight um with the proposal obviously be a public hearing this also forth be to lift the overlay for the entire the entire neighborhood or would it just be a spot lift for the subject house I think you could actually do either approach so you want some from us tonight is some guidance on that would be helpful what we were were

[188:01] thinking about is if if counsel were to give a not a five for us to go work on this we would do some outreach directly to those property owners as well as the surrounding neighborhood have a conversation and walk through what this would mean to be able to get some input from folks and then based on that input then come back to Council with a recommendation on whether to lift the zone or not or the other option is we could be very targeted and potentially look at an approach where could we lift the overlay zone for this specific parcel and I think we could we could explore both approaches and just my question it seems to me like there's a third way it could be done where you would just lift the overlay zone on this section is that that's what that's what you said Oh tires to clarify merit that most that would be potentially considered would be to lift it for these six blocks not for anywhere else okay

[189:00] I wasn't clear on that thing yeah we're not recommending that we look at em Dazs citywide just if we were to do this it would be just for this geographic area on University Hill okay and do you anticipate that to be a huge time amount of time staff time that it would take I don't anticipate it being a huge amount of staff time I think if you wanted it to we could try and do that it'd probably be scooching up in late September or October but we might be able to try and squeeze it in some events and so what other projects would that affect are currently on your plate based on the amount of staff time that I think this would take I don't anticipate it affecting any of our other work plan items okay so this afternoon I wrote Chris and and David here and I asked could you basically do just one or you

[190:02] know if you could do the whole thing and so I'm as long as we're looking at one or the whole thing I'm happy to look at that range have some concerns about the approach where we lift just one property out of an overlay zone I mean I'm sure that we would do it in the most clever way possible but it would also be potentially thought of as spot zoning and that's not what we usually do so I think in general I would be supportive of the process of going forward and learning more we don't want to do this I don't think suddenly and without public input so most important is that I think that we go through the right process at outreach and that we let folks know it's coming but this is a pretty convincing slide and so I think what most people would see a slide like this then they would say okay it's it's

[191:01] outlived its usefulness as a tool at this point because things have already gotten to where they're gonna get to mostly as far as intensity goes so my thoughts are I could support an out of five I don't really care so much if it comes forward this council or not personally because I think the answer is going to be obviously either this council or the next one and I'll just throw in there to me given the level of complexity to just about everything related to planning in this town to simplify by getting rid of an overlay zone that sort of you lived its purpose there's just some rather than cut a little hole in it mmm at least on the face of it I know you need to go do a little research but it makes a lot of sense to me to just deal with the whole thing yeah and I think because the person who's doing this he he wrote to me as well and it's a choice of having a

[192:01] 6,500 square foot house or having three units and I think we don't need any more 6500 square foot houses I would concur with that yeah I just wanted to agree with Sam and in that we it doesn't matter to me if it comes back in this counselor to the next because it'll be as he said an obvious answer well I appreciate people's receptiveness to the idea and of course those are phenomenal presentation of the allows us to really see what the potential implications are and what I might say is we do want to do public outreach around this of course and I'm perfectly happy to leave it to CAC I know we have a pretty crowded schedule for the rest of this council if this comes forward and there's a spare hour you know great and if it needs to wait until December that work for everybody

[193:02] because that's fine with me but if we can get it done greatness yeah okay anything else you need from us on that nope that's great I think there's five people nodding okay yeah anything on process other than we like meeting said don't go to dinner okay with that we are adjourned [Music] - Parris enfant like that but in Italy the UN's warning fell on dead