April 9, 2019 — City Council Study Session

Transcript

Captions from City of Boulder YouTube recording.

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[3:27] [Music] Mayor Pro Tama Boulder and I'm filling in for mayor Jones tonight who isn't with us so I hear that the city manager would like to bring something to our attention so Jane take it away Thank You Sam just very quickly at each of your places I have a copy of the

[4:02] latest and we think final version of the police oversight task force charter so earlier this week our subcommittee which was Mary Erin and three members of the n-double a-c-p met with Amy Kane and made a few changes to the Charter but we think it's in final form and ready to go we'd like to be able to send out the letter for applicants later this week and I'm asking that we not have to bring this charter back to City Council next Tuesday for your review but that you allow the subcommittee to say that it's final and we can move forward seeking applications so hopefully I'm just gonna see some nodding and then we'll be done thank you so much they did a great job just to speak to we made only minor changes to what you had put together before and I think they were not super

[5:00] substantive so mayor I don't think there's anything we need to highlight you know I just wanted to extend a thanks to the members of the n-double a-c-p who joined us and especially to Amy Kane for working so hard on this and basically turning this around overnight so she's been working extremely hard and we did have a very productive session with other folks well and thank you Mary and Erin for stepping up to the plate and doing yet another task so thank you great so all budget all the time take it away yeah take it away Amy good evening Council so this is our annual revenue and budget update the agenda for tonight I'll be talking about our citywide needs both our one-time funding options what we're calling your available tool box for funding opportunities and ongoing funding Shen's and then this year staff

[6:00] underwent an exercise to really identify all of the major unfunded projects and priorities that we have going on in the city to hopefully set context as we begin the development of the 2020 budget then my colleague Joel Wagner will be taking over with the 2018 year-end picture looking strongly at the sales and use tax and projections for 2019 through 2025 retail sales tax projections based upon some consultant work that we underwent last year so jumping into the citywide needs I just wanted to set context of the analysis that we did so largely we identified projects that were over 1 million dollars so we know that there are several needs that are under 1 million dollars but wanted to really identify those that are larger and unfunded we also excluded the Enterprise Fund so our water utility funds the purpose of the analysis was to align our long-term financial plan so as many of you know and as we talked heavily last year our current revenue forecasts demonstrate that ongoing resources may not be

[7:01] sufficient for existing service levels and that we do have limited one-time funding opportunities and then this is again your opportunity to begin prioritization conversations with us as we jump into the 2020 budget development and help guide staff on what we should really look forward to in the near term we can't just major categories of what these unfunded projects fall under we really looked at investment into critical facilities we have a lot of technology that's about approaching or just at the end of its lifecycle also we know that we've had increased community demand in a lot of our services and that climate initiatives for the city of Boulder is critical we also grouped projects into improvements of public spaces and identify new facility businesses or service opportunities that were not currently engaged in and then finally grouped categories into the workforce recruitment and retention so we're gonna dive into again one-time funding sources and ongoing funding

[8:01] sources so it didn't think of this is your tool box one-time funding sources could be anything between utilizing 2018 ending fund balance we'll dive into that a little bit more reducing 2019 and beyond reserves or utilizing 2019 revenues in excess of expenses which again would be our 2019 ending fund balance from my ongoing perspective tools include reducing services extending inspiring taxes and/or implementing new taxes and also we have an opportunity to look at this year policy change on recreational marijuana revenue a large portion of the recreational marijuana revenue is considered one-time dollars still so one-time funding options we're going to dive a little bit more into reserves so why and how much to hold in general fund reserves standard practice is that at minimum 17 percent is a good baseline which is about two months but then we also want to look at our risks some of our risks include vulnerability to

[9:01] extreme events and public safety concerns so in the city of Boulder we do have risks with both nature fire and flooding but also we're a university town that increases our risk reserves balance out when revenue sources and/or expenses may be unstable they can also provide leverage or match to any grant opportunities and then additionally as many of you know that the general fund provides support to other funds including the recreational activity fund so we really want to look at how other funds are dependent on the general fund and then finally the rating agencies use a reserve amount when determining bond ratings as one of the factors we put this up last year but this is just a comparison to our front ranged communities demonstrating that at our current 2019 goal of 19% we're just behind Fort Collins in Denver with the intention still to reach 20% by 2020

[10:00] there's also different best practices when you look at funds that are besides the general fund so special revenue funds you really want to balance out whether there's more operating or capital dollars in that fund operating of higher staffing costs and so you want to hold more in reserves because capital improvements could be delayed if needed enterprise funds like our water utilities their revenue depend on customer behavior and external factors so whether for example and also the cost of loss of service delivery is high and so you want to make sure you have higher reserves and those funds and then internal service funds while are intended to break-even we do it's responsible to accumulate reserves for the replacement of those assets so they do have reserves solely for the purpose of replacing critical assets sure yeah if you'd like to go ahead so when you say that the those funds require more of

[11:00] a reserve how much are you talking about for the enterprise funds there are about 25 percent the water utilities I think Jeff correct me if I'm wrong but he was saying that one loss of day for a water utilities about six million dollars so really significant dollars six million dollars one day without that service special revenue funds largely follow the general fund and range between 15 to 20 percent depending on again whether they're more heavily focused on operating or capital funds and just backing up one why does being a university town increase our risk I think you could just have more special events in your community hosted there right football games a campus and then you just have an influx of population and certain times right so a real high change that requires more services okay thank you yeah great so that wraps up

[12:00] our one time kind of tool box going on to unfunny options we're gonna dive into Texas so specifically property tax and sales and use tax so for every retail dollar collected the city of Boulder receives 44 cents of that dollar and what's important to note of that is less than half goes to the general fund while the other half goes to our dedicated funds like parks and recreation and open space transportation and the community culture and safety tax looking at our upcoming sales tax rates we just wanted to demonstrate that we will be having shifts in our sales tax rates and the various funds so in 2019 a portion of open space space tax shifted to the general fund which we were planning on in 2020 overall sales and use tax rate declines due to expiration of a portion of transportation tax and a portion of open space tax shifts to the Transportation Fund in 2022 our overall sales and use tax rates declines due to the expiration

[13:00] of the community culture and safety tax in 2025 overall sales and use tax declines due to the expiration of a portion of general fund tax in 2030 a portion of transportation tax shifts to the general fund and in 2035 a portion of open space tax shifts to the general fund again these are all planned shifts that were approved by the voters in the ballot language the colors demonstrate the general fund and gray community culture safety tax in orange the points you 5 cent sales tax which is dedicated to Parks and Recreation and gray open space and green and transportation at the top and that maroon color so property tax similarly for every dollar collected it's always important reminded that the city only receives about 14 cents to that dollar a large portion of it goes to the county in the schools and then of that the general fund receives

[14:00] about some 80 percent of the dollars but we do have some dedicated funds that receive a property tax dollars including the Community Housing Assistance Program Parks and Recreation and the library fund so I'm going to spend a minute explaining how and who calculates the property taxes so you take your actual value of your property which is determined by the counting using the market rate approach and then in this approach it's based on analysis of comparable sales so in 2019 the taxes that are paid in 2020 are based upon a valuation that uses comparable sales from all of 2017 and half of 2018 so essentially there's a lag when you go to calculate your value of your property and when you look at the assessment rate or the percent of property value that's subject to the taxation in each odd number year the residential rate is subject to change by the Colorado Legislature as prescribed by the

[15:00] Gallagher amendment and then the change in that percentage maintains the present balance of the tax burden between residential and all other taxpayers and that's how you come up with your assessed value or the value that you're gonna pay on the millage any questions on this I do have a question if you go back one slide yes the distribution of the 14 cents is that something that voters have to approve if we wanted to reallocate a certain amount of that from say the general fund to the library or is that something that we can do as part of the budget process I don't know I'm looking to Tom as perhaps a resource it's in the Charter so it would yeah I've changed I'd have to think about whether there's a taper question as well did you change the Charter says one penny to the library you know this distributional innocence Turner okay it would be good to know for sure at some point if this is really

[16:01] charter mandated okay I can take a look right now okay I'm gonna weigh in I'm not a lawyer but I'm on TV what I think is if you wanted to dedicate the part of the nine cents not the one cent that's already dedicated to the library but part of the nine cents of that if you wanted that to go exclusively to the library you could put it to a vote or you could do it in the budget and if you do it in the budget then every year you could change it but if you put it to a vote then it would be dedicated in that fashion yeah I wasn't proposing dedication I was just asking about the flexibility so but it is in the Charter that we have to follow and then what is just part of the budgeting right so the nine cents is just part of the budget the rest of it all of the ones that are spelled out except the general fund must go to those places but the general fund can go to anything in the city so why is the general is that true with the general

[17:00] public safety as well because that's green right so that has to go to public safety and it has been voted on to go to public safety I'm wondering I can't remember what year but at some point there was a vote and I think it was 1995 or 1996 and I think there was the money put for parks there was some money for housing and Human Services and that was kind of the marriage and how it was it was kind of sold to I think that was the original point one five and yeah and then there was art money for the Arts was in there and that was a sales tax not a property tax and I believe that we D bruised that earlier in the 2000s and we I think it all goes to the general fund now that's kind of allocated through the budget the question is these percentages this one cent once and was

[18:01] that actually voted on by the people so I think the answer is we don't know for sure right now but I believe that it was or it's in the Charter right yeah so and the library is in the Charter section 134 requires that 1/3 of a mill the tax levied go to a library fund to be used exclusively for a library purposes okay and same with the parks in the next chat I know the parks is for sure okay great thank you good questions well some of the property tax so they're the the revaluation do we have a sense yet of what that's looking like yeah so um Dola or the department of local affairs let me get six I actually have at the very bottom they do an initial calculation at the end of each year and so based upon by the classes so by residential or non-residential and this

[19:00] came out in December and I believe I provided a link in the memo but based upon initial calculations they estimated that residential may increase up to 15% and commercial up to 15% but they also anticipate that the residential assessment rate may decrease again Quinn stantly they typically put their final report because it does have to go through the legislature out mid April so we're probably a week or two away from seeing what that looks like and I know it was in the memo I don't remember the exact number the the part of the anticipated decrease in the residential percentage seven point two to six point nine five is what they have calculated okay thank you any other questions so I wanted to just remind everyone with the general fund supports because they do do several departments that don't have any dedicated funding source including police and fire and the internal service departments both of those kind of in the yellow shading and Human Services Finance and I team we're showing you

[20:02] this because we're gonna set up two different slides that does a municipal comparison of like services so just wanted to remind everyone what the general fund does support so first we wanted to compare municipal sales tax rates so what you'll see here is what the general fund portion is you'll notice that the general fund portion compared to other communities is relatively low in the second-lowest just behind Longmont but when you start to stack up other dedicated sales tax rates like open space here Parks and Recreation Public Safety transportation capital improvements or community projects and historic preservation you'll notice that we do keep up to probably the second highest rate at that point when you add in the state rate RTD which Fort Collins doesn't have sales tax rate for the

[21:02] scientific and cultural facilities district which again Fort Collins doesn't have a tax for and the county we do end up with one of the highest of these municipal comparisons just Broomfield is pretty high too I don't see them on room fields a hard one to do because they're both a city and a county and so breaking it out but we could certainly try to look deeper into it I seem to remember they were a little higher than we are yeah so looking at then property tax this is the city mill levy we have one of the higher rates but is important to note that the city mill supports like we just showed you both the general fund as well as other special revenue sources but other communities provide some of the general fund services that we provide through districts this is a Parks and Recreation District Fire District in those

[22:00] communities library district and then a small bond so this is really where we would pause and say this is kind of what typical municipal services are provided so largely this is provided through the city's mill rate but in these other communities they do have special districts that provide the similar service and so we start to have one of the lower overall property tax from municipal like services so can I ask a quick question here just for apples to apples comparison we have some dedication within the property tax in the Mills right so in a way it's like we have these other districts we're just rolling it all up into one in the Charter yes yeah so in that eleven point nine eight one you have a portion that goes to Parks and Recreation but it just supports a small portion of parks and recreation not their full budget versus the district we its full budget so just to be clear that that what Sam just said was that wheel that we were looking at earlier yep yeah a large portion goes to

[23:01] the general fund with some smaller pieces but you are correct it does encompass the total Silla City Miller rate so we add on other districts which are typically water districts which is small portion but then we add on schools and counties and you'll see that Boulder is the third lowest overall when looking at those municipal comparisons so again as a reminder when we start talking about the actual unfunded priorities you have kind of two sets of toolboxes within one time funding sources we anticipate that utilizing the 20 eighteen ending fund balance is roughly fourteen million dollars again these are all preliminary but to give the order of magnitude if you wanted to reduce 2019 and beyond reserves each percentage is about 1.3 million dollars and then we don't know yet with utilizing 2019 revenues in excess of expense or again the ending fund balance for 2019 will be

[24:00] but we do anticipate that we have ending fund balance every year and then from ongoing funding sources similar to last year we could reduce services up to a certain dollar amount extending that 0.15 sales tax rate that goes away in 2020 lends about five million dollars and then for every mill and property tax you get about 3.6 million and then again shifting the recreational marijuana revenue from one-time to ongoing is about four million dollars it is important to note that flipping it from one time to ongoing does mean that it's been not available for one-time sources so good question a reminder the expiring 0.15% is transportation correct and open space shifts a portion of their 0.15 to make transportation hole well it isn't the net effect that it all goes out of the open space funding so the point one five I mean it's technically a transportation text that's expiring but it's open space that's losing the funding okay

[25:03] jumping into the unfunded priorities again these are our criteria for projects I are categorized I won't repeat them all but you'll see them show up when we talk about the various projects so we spent a lot of time talking about one-time and ongoing and you'll see in the presentation we identified a proposal to fund someone on time one-time priorities listed in that green but we'll need to use utilize various tools if we need or want to fund the other projects so you have on your table and in the packet attachment a I figured it might be easier to see it printed out but more detail of each project is listed on there if you want a deep description so investment in critical facilities or things like Fire Station three relocation or Alpine balsam hospital deconstruction as well as some critical deficiencies within the fire stations themselves things that have increased in

[26:01] community demand includes a library master plan maintaining service levels or just cork transportation maintenance and operations as well as transit service expansions we do have several technologies that are coming up for the end of life cycle replacement including the records management system both for fire and the Muni Cort software within kind of a new business or service opportunities this idea of middle-income housing substitution and improvement in public spaces would be long scarred improvements and within workforce recruitment and retention we have the conversation around living wage increases the city is engaging in a compensation parity and employee retention study again unknown cost so that's not included in that forty eight point four million dollar total and then there may be some legal requirements for para that are mandated yeah it's a question about them you have several

[27:02] items that are kind of system replacement system upgrades management systems software replacement though don't we amortize for that don't we have a sinking from that don't we plan for obsolescence and renewal or is this over and above what we budgeted for a little bit so as technology has changed and needs have shifted some of these are higher costs and anticipated in the replacement funds and then I think it's just similar to what we saw in the community culture safety tax that for a while we weren't putting away those funding sources for annual replacements so just getting them back on that cycle so to be replaced and then get them on a cycle where we are proactive and don't have to come in a big lump sum okay so our plan going forward study aside these specific needs are playing going forward is to have a regular item in the budget that's a I don't know capital or operating but fun for those things that we anticipate will become stale or obsolete not surprised yep and these ones just

[28:00] haven't had those dollars built up okay and that's because we Dean allocate for them or that they're more expensive than we thought okay I just have to wait and since this is my business professional business but software generally is an operating cost these days from the Brotherhood then a capital costs or surprises me to see millions of dollars in capital I know that's an older model but I think I'd hope we could look towards using some new approaches for software that don't hit us with hard to fund capital projects all right so now we're looking at breaking those projects not by the categories but into one time an ongoing and so as I mentioned we have a proposed funding mechanism that's the green portion that was a small piece so we are proposing exhausting at 2018 excess fund balance to the tune about fourteen million dollars to help fund the hospital deconstruction the fire station three construction and then replacement the boulder fire record records management system some question

[29:00] about that the total for those three projects is more than fourteen million so or is there funding coming from elsewhere okay so next to fund that total is utilizing one-time dollars for the 2020 budget both for the Alpine balsam in the hospital site and then finally to cover the remaining gap we do have some general fund dollars that we anticipate it would be needed for fire station three but we didn't specifically allocate through the 2019 but or we didn't identify through the 2019 budget for fire station three so those three tools combined equal the needed dollars so can I ask a question on fire station through the construction how much money out of the capital of the cultural safety how much was dedicated for fire station three I thought it was around thirteen million or twelve and a half million thanks Joel pretty close so how

[30:00] did we so badly underestimate in that now we're being asked for another seven and a half million dollars that seems like a big off I mean that's a pretty large error how did that how does that happen I may let chief also explain my understand is both the land purchase it was the land purchase I believe we were thinking that the land purchase would be four to five million yeah and instead it was nine million and we had a really hard time winding that piece of property and then I have another question if my understanding is right in terms of residential properties usually that cost two hundred and fifty three hundred dollars a square foot in this fire station it's being estimated that it's between seven and eight hundred dollars a score how do we get to that number I'm

[31:01] not an owner of residential values good evening Council my caller I was a fire chief so fam does the numbers for us but for the most part the reason it is so expensive besides the fact that at this point in time getting construction contracts for cheap is not easy in the Denver metro region fire stations themselves though are pretty complicated more complicated and you would imagine would be built especially because we're talking about large trucks being housed inside the sleeping facilities decontamination the way the air is filtered in the stations because of the EMS and all the different things they do the fire keep their their gear separate decontaminate in different places and so all those little configurations create a

[32:01] complexity of building that that actually ramps up the cost we were originally thinking was gonna be around five to six hundred dollars a square foot and after talking with fam their experience actually suggests that we go higher than that to be safe given the given the contract the the way that contracts are being awarded right now perfect commercial and who is fam I'm sorry just came up to the table Michelle crane city facilities design and construction manager so another potential key distinction and what you're talking about with 300 dollars a square foot a lot of times people talk about just construction cost which can be less around three hundred dollars a square foot the budgets that we put together what we call owners budgets so they include all of the soft costs all of the general conditions all of the permitting fees and that many times can get you to double the cost and then also with the

[33:01] challenge we've had with getting land and when we're gonna start construction there's escalation in there and we're seeing really big amounts of escalation over years and by the time we actually get to bid likely were a couple years out from now and so escalation over a couple years this is reasonable so we don't come back again in under budget so that's where those numbers go back to the cost of the land chain as I seen recall that we bought we ended up having to buy more land than we needed just because that was was for sale can we monetize the excess land I think we're thinking about a way to do that one of the other thoughts though is that part of the land might be used for affordable housing and that would be our sort of donation to the to the affordable housing ability or whatever developer it was so we haven't decided yet but yes there is excess land and we could monetize it or we could focus and that would just save us no problems in dollars from some other place that's

[34:01] achieve our goal what happens to the land where the fire station is no it's in the floodplain and it's unusable was there severe flooding there during the 2011 event or 13 or whenever it was that's a great question it actually turns out to be one of the stations that did not get flooded yeah they're just tired have you thought about a bake sale I thought it was a lot of sales here comes Jeff to talk about flooding so I just want to clarify so I believe this station if Jeff our Director of Public Works for utility say didn't want to clarify we're talking about fire station in the Boulder Creek floodplain the flooding on Boulder Creek in 2013 was talked about as being in the 30 year event versus some other parts of town

[35:01] that had closer to 100 year events so the flooding experience there in 2013 would not be indicative what we'd expect in a 100-year floodplain for kind of for context home depot is elevated to be out of the floodplain so that's more of the depth of water we're talking about there can I trail into that just a little bit more is that and is it in the 100-year floodplain that the high hazard what zone is that I didn't I believe it is just in the hundred although there may be conveyance or high hazard that goes down Arapaho okay every time at the fire station or Home Depot the existing fires out but do you remember the used to you know wall along the rapaho right it was a flood wall and that actually wasn't as high as it needed to be so when the site was redeveloped all that fill that's there just to keep that site out of the flood plains so what's the elevation difference between the creek and Home Depot I hadn't thought about that but and I had forgotten about the flood wall

[36:00] it is significant I mean it has to be but it's probably a good 10 feet yeah I was gonna say 1012 feet so it's in that ballpark so there's there would be a lot of water there so if I can just finish out that here so the I totally get that we would not we don't want a fire station where that current fire station is but not tonight but I'd be interested in hearing what the thoughts are on future use of that whether it becomes part of scott carpenter park or if it's in a flood area where you could do some other non-critical uses so anyway if we could just get some more information about that that'd be helpful so Mary yeah I Jeff don't go away so we often get development proposal site reviews that include development in the hundred-year plane or we look at proposals and we're reassured that it can be built up to get out of the hundred-year plane floodplain what's the difference between those proposals and

[37:02] the fire station I don't have a map in front of me but generally what you would and I'm assuming it may be also in the I'm sorry so if it was just in the hundred year flood plain there are options to elevate for residential uses or to flood proof for non-residential uses my guess without having a map in front of me is that it's either in the conveyance tone in which case you can add things that would make water deeper for someone else or it's in the high hazard zone which means the water around it is fast or deep enough that it would lead someone away so I'm speculate that it is it's probably an one or both of those because through there there's water in Arapaho that's trying to get back to the creek again it's actually if we're saying it's ten feet deep it would definitely be in the high hazard zone my recollection was was that it was in one of these zones

[38:01] that just meant it absolutely couldn't be improved going forward it's a critical facility isn't it so if you how would you get the truck out if you have 12 feet of water I mean even if you elevated the station unless you have a swimming vehicle but you but you can and in a hazard zone have impassive recreational uses it's you know you don't want parking because cars are gonna float away you don't want structures you don't want people taking shelter there but in terms of a passive park type use where people are gonna be ambulatory unaware that that's potentially used for this I'm Tom pulled up a map and it's showing in the high hazard zone yeah that makes sense based on the depth have to be okay shall we move on there I had one other question before we move on though Jim you talked about the cost of

[39:02] the land was nine million and we're expecting four or five so that's about four and a half million dollars and the Delta is seven and a half so is the remaining three million dollars for increased construction costs or I believe so as Michelle explained okay and how much extra land is there roughly do we know how many there's three quarters of an acre a point eight something like that thank you I'm gonna move away from fire station number three specifically but I did want to ask a question about the excess fund balance I don't recall in past years seeing that amount laid out as to what it's going to be used for so I was curious to know what it's been in the past and what it's been used for yeah it's a great question and I do want to explain what excess fund balance does mean because we often talk about fund balance and reserves so excess fund balance is you take your

[40:00] revenues less your expenses less your reserves so we're talking our 19 percent reserve goal and that's what we call excess fund balance so it's really those dollars that are undead ik ated and oftentimes excess fund balance is used to cover our adjustment base processes so whatever was left over from last year gets rebooted during the adjustment base process because that's one-time dollars and ATVs are largely one-time adjustments to the budget and then sometimes we do intentionally budget to use that as a one-time funding source when we don't have additional one-time dollars available so in the 2019 budget we did see a draw from that but decrease between 18 and 19 so it's for one-time items so if I understood you correctly the reason we haven't seen this in the past itemize the way it is this year is because it was just adjustment to base and and budget it for the following year

[41:00] correct or or there wasn't any or it's yeah or it's there for you know additional opportunities if they come up throughout the year or to be repurposed and fourteen million is about what we see on average each year is available access fund balance so this year we would just completely draw that down just following up on that last year we had the fourteen million excess property tax is that if my memory serves and I wondered where and I asked at the time during the budget process where that was going would that go into something like this as well I mean it was over and above because of the new assessments yeah so you're talking through the 2018 budget process how assessment values were you know a lot higher than what we had projected which is our typical five percent increase and so a lot of the property tax increase dollars if I'm recalling correctly were utilized for ongoing items and so some of this

[42:01] support of the general is developing the general fund capital program to be an ongoing capital dollar amount we also used it for several human service it related items that were also ongoing and so to the extent that we wouldn't have utilized the full dollar amount it could have fallen to the excess fund balance but I do believe that we utilized a lot of those additional dollars for core services well maybe following up on Mary's question it would be interesting going forward to see where those funds are expended just for our information yeah and if I could just say thank you for calling that out because I think that these amounts have been hidden a little bit I think in past budget cycles so I appreciate it being given visibility yeah we focus a lot on either taxes or revenues and then reserves and less about kind of what's after the fact so happy - sure so so that does raise another question about the general fund capital fund that the city's been trying to grow over the last few years does

[43:02] that mean because it's gonna be totally expended this year that the excess fund balance does that mean that there will be no money going into that capital fund nope the plans is in our ongoing I'm gonna switch slides real quick because I hold it up there so we do have a proposal like I said to allocate some of those dollars that weren't previously identified to the fire station but here's what we've planned for and have budgeted for our general fund capital dollars the goal was to start out kind of around 3% and build up to 5% by I think we'd do that by 2023 so that's already in the budget so if we were to utilize the excess fund balance we still have this already budgeted so we want to be taking away from general fund capital I do want to remind everyone that we have exhausted a lot of the general fund capital dollars on two major projects that being the Hogan Lane Hogan land purchase repayment to the owners and then broadband so

[44:00] you'll see in the Box those two general fund capital dollars are what I'm proposing for fire station land overage after that in 2021 there is an opportunity that's not been identified for a general fund capital to the tune of three point four five million dollars you know and the broadband isn't that certificates of certificates of participation is a purely certificate of participation yeah there's years and so this is just the payoff of the monthly the 20-year and could you remind me how much do we have right now in cops total I mean we put a lot in the Alpine bossom and then we have this this project and then I think there's a third one that I should have batali CFO we were talking about

[45:01] using them for the parking garage for the it's just Alpine balsam and the upcoming broadband issue okay yeah thank you and and do you know what percentage that is or how much I think it's like 40 million for 15 or 15 to 20 for broadband okay that's member youngt does this help answer the general fun question okay welcome and we have that sent to us please absolutely thank you okay so we identified these as proposed funding sources but when looking at some of our unfunded ongoing dollars these

[46:02] are the types of projects that we're talking about and unfunded one-time dollars these would be the types of projects that we would be talking about more than itial cost them just a pause here and let you take a look at the list so just make sure that I understand the potential and we haven't talked about it yet but the potential to shift the marijuana dollars to ongoing would mean that we could apply those to the unfunded ongoing dollars and if we leave them in one time then we can fund the other lists with that correct okay and it's not allocated as of yet the meruna revenue so the when you say the sixteen point three million in unfunded ongoing dollars that's an annual amount correct okay if I do see like radio services infrastructure in there which sounds to me like capital mm-hmm so the part of

[47:00] the radio services infrastructure is to include ongoing dollars for the replacements similar to what Bob brought up for the software replacements in the past we weren't putting away as much for the ongoing replacement of it and it is multi million dollars when it does come time for which is your advertising the capital purchase over okay things I notice his son gets this line 12 the sheet that you put on her table here you've got the middle income housing subsidize a ssin three million dollars ongoing nest included in that 16 million ongoing then find a dollar correct and is that there must be more than just the Dom penis this is program that's more broadly for a lot of types of middle-income I believe this was just related to the downpayment assistance program that we had those dollars available that's based on the meeting that Cheryl and Bob and Sam and I and Curt had a couple days ago I think that numbers gonna be quite a bit lower so you might want to visit with them yeah I was gonna say in addition we're talking

[48:02] about a pilot stage first rather than we don't know for sure if it will be ongoing or not so and the last thing I'll say about that because I agree that we need to look at this is there's a million dollars in the h2o program that's not being drawn down essentially at all and so there was conversations about using the h2o dollars as the starting point for a pilot so anyway yeah and to be fair when talking with housing they did provide a range of anywhere between zero and you know five million or however big we wanted to put the program so they just recommended for the information that we had at the time to put in three million dollars all these numbers are preliminary can shift depending on choices that are made so that kind of raises I guess another question in my mind if if middle-income housing substation was zero to five and you kind of put in three as a swag I guess it calls into question what are these what other numbers here are ranges in other words I think the next thing we

[49:00] see this this is just midpoints of swags you know spike one - spike - and you're just kind of putting the numbers and then you'll probably be helpful for councils to see those ranges because if the ranges are really significant that probably means there's a lack of precision at this point in time because it's uncertain as opposed to really narrow ranges where we really are sure that this particular software is going to cost seven or $15,000 will be the biter we don't so that would be helpful - no no I appreciate that that's a great idea and we can certainly do it I think because middle-income housing would be the kind of a new business we would be getting into or service that we were providing that's really one of the most technical term but a lot of those really have been vetted because they are in the immediate needs they have been in master plans they have been in unfunded capital dollars and staff have done a lot of the project planning already but to give comfort to the fact I certainly can provide ranges for the other pieces I have a question about the transportation expansion that 5.72 million so it includes the buy up for

[50:02] the jump bound and hop expansion so I'm curious yeah at 11 and I'm curious about the jump and the hop in particular the jump is one that goes all the way out to Lafayette and services a lot of the county the hop is something that really services the university to a large extent so I'm wondering if that 5.72 considered that potentially other entities could contribute it's nice to have a lot of friends in the audience Kathleen brekkie transportation so great questions there's a lot of different services within that line item that are kind of rolled up to that 5.7 so the by

[51:01] ups for the routes such as the bound in the jump would help augment that service and buy back the higher frequency service on those routes so that is something that's operated by RTD and so we do a we look to do those cost share arrangements with them on the hop we currently do partner with several organizations to Co fund the hop so that's funded through the city and also the Cu students as well as our TD so we're very open to partnerships to fund all of the current transit service as well as future so we would look to leverage these dollars as much as possible between any other existing or new partnerships I guess it's the short answer so in the jump right now it's planned to just be the city and RTD cost sharing on those or for has for example has Lafayette been approached to contribute

[52:02] to that bio for the service compared to the long jump service which is the regional there's two versions of the the jump and so this we've kind of called the short jump or the local jump would be Co funded primarily between the city of Boulder and RTD certainly as we look to grow the regional bus rapid transit service on state highway 7 all the way out from Boulder to Brighton there could be other opportunities to Co fund that expanded service over time as well this is just a short-term fix to try and bring back the higher quality service that used to be out there that our TD has cut over the last several years and what what is the headway expected so with this amount so I don't have all the specific Headley's because they vary by the different times of day but our goal is to get the high frequency like 10-minute frequency during the peak hour

[53:00] and at this time it's back basically a half hour service on the jump today so we're looking to try and get that back to be the higher quality higher frequency service so again as a bridge to the longer-term more high performing all day long bus rapid transit so right so I guess it's back to Mary's question though have you approached the county and asked them to contribute to this expansion so yes we we work with all of our partners to expand on the service on each of these routes and again this line item includes more than just the jump in the bound I'll give an example for a grant project that we just applied for through the dr. cog sub-regional tip process to seek funding to leverage the dollars to grow the Hopf service so that's looking favor favorable for the Hopf service so that would be a way to help Co fund these needs with federal grant dollars for a three-year period of

[54:02] time but I'm asking specifically about the county because the bound also goes through the county and so I just feel like the county should be putting in we certainly continue to do this County to see if they can help we do that on a regular basis right they're all just added expenses and I think the company needs to pay it's sure okay so and I'll know quite favorable in the hapax bench we got preliminary approval from from the county subform so it's looking very good for that that hop extension which is great but Kathleen just want to ask so you're talking about by ups with RTD I thought they weren't really offering this right now because of like driver shortages and such right so currently RTD has expressed that they won't accept by UPS but that is something we're continuing to work on not only by the city of Boulder in Boulder County but also City and County of Denver to continue to press RTD to be

[55:01] open to that service methods a little aspirational there but yes but but very necessary to try and build back the services so I have a question about spreading some of these expenses out so when things are one-time expenses but we don't want to pay it all at once so we can find a partner who will accept multiple payments over multiple years to spread out the payment is there a way to have that represented because these are all shown as the total dollar amounts paid all at once and for even some of the ones that are up in green it seems like those are gonna accrue over time yeah you're absolutely correct this kind of the challenge with our capital improvement not challenge but the way that we need to budget for state regulations and is that in order to go

[56:01] under contract right you must have all of the funds available to encumber so even if you know that the projects can take two years if you're utilizing the same contract or the same vendor for you know construction of pieces you must have those dollars upfront and so that poses kind of a timing challenge even though we know that we will roll over those dollars in the next year so in some instances you are able to break up contracts and two discrete pieces and and we do do that when we can but often times it does require a large up friend some questions here yeah and to follow up on Sam's question some contracts are likely more flexible than others perhaps and so I'm thinking of like the longs garden conservation easement that seems

[57:00] to me that it's something that could be worked out with the family and and it doesn't require that kind of incumbent depending on the terms of the agreement or work or scope of work okay thank you it's so jumping in to our intermediate needs which is really looking at 2021 to 2020 for our investments in critical facilities is a pretty long list including the continuation of the Alpine balsam for the land remodel and some fire stations relocations and then it's important to note that those two asterisks for rental space is if the pavilion didn't occur so that there is a need that the new Briton buildings and the buildings across the way do have to be vacated so our options are to remind remodel the pavilion or find rental space for New Britain so did want to point that out with in the end of life

[58:00] cycle technology or enterprise resource planning system additional dollars are needed this is our munis financial and HR system for increase in community demand several projects they're highly master planned the different service levels including North Boulder some Parks and Recreation and police master plans are upcoming in that timeframe too and so we don't currently know the cost of those but it is anticipated that master plans do highlight unfunded needs and then some additional transportation so I haven't questioned about this North Boulder library master plan and I think it's like something like 3.5 million operating costs and part of the problem with the North Boulder of library is that since 95 we've actually had the building the funds for the building but then they've gotten sold or they've

[59:00] gotten traded off for a fire station or different things but it always comes down to well we can have the funds for the building but we don't have operational cost so we can't build a North Boulder library now last year we passed a tax that put 5 million dollars I think it was a round that towards and/or the construction of the North Boulder library so when I saw this I was very surprised so now we have the money for the building but we don't have the money for the operation to set what you're telling us friendly unfunded we would need to find the dollars for the operations well that can't be the case because I mean I think people voted thinking this library was going to happen is gonna happen and to have unfunded operating dollars is not acceptable so maybe we need to look at this general fund and do a dedication of maybe a cent

[60:01] from our general fund and make that dedication I just want to make sure I understand the light I'm 33 that I think Lisa was talking about it says three points this was three point six million dollars ongoing for North Boulder library is that 3.6 million over the course of those four budget years or 3.6 million each year I can't imagine it's gonna cost us two point six million dollars to run the north from the library no it's no I'd have to go back and analyze what those cost those are all cost from the master plan and those are ongoing operating costs to get to the point where we are meeting community demand which if you remember was a whole different level of the plan the master plan calls for fewer than FTE which is a substantial cost but it's not anywhere near three and a half million for the operating cost and then there's maintenance cost associated with the building and those who have been estimated for us by fam I think they're

[61:00] around one hundred and eighty thousand dollars a year for North Boulder maintenance costs so I think we're probably closer in the range of 1.1 1.2 right but I need to go back and look at all the data so the 3.5 when North Boulder comes on to 2024 so it's the cost of over three years of operation the cave because in previous conversations I thought we were moving some things around at different libraries in order to make things a little more equitable well and I mean did that include funding you don't need to provide for the corner library I mean is that so it's one point one additional on top of what we're currently paying for okay so now I'm confused because it's line 33 is 3.6 million dollars but it's over those four budget years 21 22 23 24 so roughly call it $900,000 a year times four years equals three point six million right so then Katie are other

[62:01] items above that also over the four budget year so for example the line right above that which is on a previous page 32 library master plan 6.5 million is that 6.5 million per year or 6.5 million over four budget years over for budget years for the library master plan because we did have those numbers already through the consultant there's a whole bunch of other ongoing though on this page are those should we all divide all those numbers by four also so to let for example line 31 or line 21 or 28 those are all over four-year periods of time not per year no but we can further clarify when we revise this with kind of the ranges and then give an estimated whether that's annual or over a course a period of time really really helpful because this page in particular was kind of jaw-dropping and yeah it was overwhelming it was insomnia inducing

[63:04] but it was very challenging to see these numbers I mean the eye I hadn't heard and so this is a question I'm really perplexed now because this whole thing totals out I'm 58 at 205 million dollars but you're telling us it's some of that is one-time some of its annual and some of it's about over four years so I'm really confused now I can help clarify some of that piece of it we'll get through new businesses so largely looking at EMS potential services and again our goal for electrification of the Hopf buses and potential for in-house custodial services which is currently being explored as part of the living wage update so looking towards kind of the unfunded ongoing dollars this is what we're looking at and again we'll help break out largely those are just annual

[64:01] costs aside from the library master plan and then this is kind of where that overall dollar amount for intermediate kind of spiked to marry your point so when we look at 72 million this would be what the total bond payment would need to be but really it's roughly four million dollars a year spread over however many years we would want to do the bond payment so it puts a little bit more into perspective and that would be for alpine balsam remodel and some of those site improvements and then our one-time cost those opportunities and projects and so since we are doing fire station 3 and that came with sticker shock what do you anticipate for fire station two and four so each of those I believe in the packet are listed around 20 million dollars for both land and construction so if I might ask we look at this as an annual amount that's unmet it's

[65:02] about 35 million a year unmannerly and then you've spread out the alpine balsam project by bonding for it is a potential option for that yes be more realistic to break it up to smaller pieces annually and could you bond for those other unfunded one-time dollars as well up into our bonding capacity potentially yeah so I mean it seems I mean we we see them as one-time you put them out that way but they certainly could be bonded for and then that would spread things out significantly yeah it's not only be a tool in their toolbox I think one thing that might be helpful for us to see is that you know you can lay it out just like this and then I don't know what our bonding capacity is or how close that is to it but you could say you could bond for X amount and spread

[66:01] out the payments which would be this amount per year yeah we can certainly provide that in and who do say tell us what our good bonding capacity is Cheryl again I can speak to that so our capacity we have a law related to our capacity that relates to our general obligation bonds but if you have a revenue source that you're backing those bonds with it doesn't really hit that limit so really when you talk about capacity you want to talk about how are you gonna fund the debt service payments and then also how are the rating agencies going to review the level of debt that you have at the city so those would be things that we would need to consider if we were going to take on all of this debt plus we have other things

[67:01] on the horizon that might be pretty large numbers such as municipal zation and broadband and all of those things we write in just for clarification when we get like a triple-a rating then we have much lower interest rates on on those bonds than we would have if we had BB or something like that correct yeah so it's an interest rate correct you know if I could just throw in just a point just just to point out these are some very large numbers I mean these projects some of them certainly are optional right I mean they're not AB not all of them are absolutely critical to the future of the city I will also point out that some of them are one or the other like the rental space if we don't do the pavilion is up there and the ongoing but if we did the pavilion we only have to pay for that and not the other thing so it takes a little bit of the sting out of some of these very large numbers context to help us have

[68:04] you help us prioritize what really needs to get accomplished and a lot of these are choices and just kind of fallen on Erin's point with respect to some of the master plans like the person right plan and maybe the fire master or the for the police pass play these are all at the vision level right other words we currently don't have any estimates for them because they're I'm gonna be undergoing it so we didn't put any dollar amounts in there but once we were to undergo it we would have very different levels kind of the okay well maybe that was those were very examples the library master plan the number the numbers you included for the two numbers you can cleared if the library master plan to come up to thirty point seven million or those that the vision level as opposed to their mid-level or their maintain service level community demand is what the mid-level is for the other master plan kind of categories when you get into our long-term needs and we talk about the expansion of services for the library that's where you get into the vision gosh I know that so but this is

[69:02] above and beyond the maintained current level correct right so it is a notch up from the maintain current level yeah and yeah I mean they think that's also an interesting question because they see Pearl Street Mall refresh in there right and that's obviously got to be in the parks master plan but I would have a question of how Parks has rank ordered what they want to see happen whether because that's like a CIP almost right it's like we need this capital improvement in this part how does that fit in with the other priorities that they have I don't know if we wanted here but it's anything important to understand that yes their choices but also they may be choices that are made by a department and their advisory board if they have the funding available correct just to be clear um nothing up here has been committed to in

[70:00] other words this is these are all things that we could do incremental to what we're doing today there may be really important things or things we really want to do but we haven't committed to any of these things yet so write down the list and we have not well plan Boston is somewhat committed but not completely committed they may be further discussion well true but I just want to ask a question about app I'm also more here the subsurface and surface infrastructure component of that will that end up being paid back if we had developers who are involved in a public-private partnership and and well Chris is coming up here one of just in looking at Alpine bas and also many anticipated expenses or cost I didn't see anything for roads for water sewer gas we would do that electric sidewalks flood mitigation where is that great

[71:03] so Christmas check interim planning director I can answer both questions because they're actually the same question so when we refer to subsurface infrastructure and surface infrastructure that's what we're referring to is any other connections through the site subsurface meaning water sewer all that sort of things so depending on how we decide to partner or not partner with housing developers for the kind of area of this site that would be dedicated to housing are our typical practice across the city is if there are additional new roads or infrastructure extensions those are paid for by that private development and so we could do that and do that same approach with that depending on on how we decide to finance how much of it is for affordable housing there are some trade-offs that we would need to make for make on that and we

[72:01] actually the project team is examining those costs and helping us understand what might be the best business decision for us as a city to make in terms of how that infrastructure might get funded and [Music] if we have mixed Jews because the mixed juice is another component of this and presuming that the mixed-use is likely not going to be affordable housing would we riku all of the expenses associated with the infrastructure for the mixed-use projects yeah we would look at it similar to whatever portion of that site is going to be dedicated to that mixed-use let's say that north east corner is kind of that flex parcel let's say any and that becomes a mixed-use development whatever infrastructure is that appropriate share for that parcel that property would then share in that that development okay so then we have a number here for the sub surface and surface infrastructure that will

[73:01] eventually be paid back likely at least part of it will part of it could be yeah part of it so that's another way of thinking about this that's a little less painful men than the sticker shock from the number because we even if we front this number which I assume is what's being talked about would you front it or would you wait until we had a site plan review that's actually part of the analysis that we're working on right now is what's the trade-off decisions of should we front it and build all the infrastructure essentially have pad sites ready to go for development or do we want to time that infrastructure with the timing of whatever that ultimate development will be and that's part of what we're working on putting together and we'll bring at the June 4th study session thank you like the use of the word pad just know that just brings you know the PTSD of this you know pads

[74:00] haven't worked out real well so the question for Chris you know what is happening to the pad still have Joel to be very engaging any other questions on these projects I do so on the fire stations too and for the relocation it was really difficult to find a place to relocate fire station number three and it's only getting more and more difficult and by the time all said and done with fire station number three we're looking at close to 15 million so I'm wondering about that estimate and how realistic it is to expect to find any land anywhere for a new fire station

[75:05] great question so it's hard to predict what we would find in what we wouldn't we're looking even now even in the Cu South discussions which will have an impact on our services we're talking about what shared possibility could exist there but regardless there's there's land that's not even this land that we actually got for station three wasn't even for sale when we first actually inquired about it so it's a it's a tough market for station three in particular that area you all know is a real hotbed of activity right now so trying to find land in any area along the 30th Street corridor or even east and west of it was was really really difficult not that it's going to be easy for station 4 or station 2 but I do think there are options if we're looking now and not just waiting

[76:01] to see what would happen so we are exploring what properties may or may not be available at any point in the next three to five years but obviously we need a funding source to strike if an opportunity hits us so I don't know if that means that in three to five years we've missed it again because this was a pretty big hit to go from four and a half million estimate to two nine when we were first looking it looked realistic at about four and a half so I can't really say we're gonna hit it perfectly but I think it's a what we've got in here right now is a fairly reasonable estimate for land and construction for the size of stations we did increase the land acquisition costs so for all of the subsequent projects because of the experience with station 3 I don't know if that helps or not but but it is we it isn't going to be easy of course but we aren't waiting so that brings up the whole issue of why move I

[77:00] mean when I look at Broadway and I'm not a firefighter but when I look at Broadway and saying I do volcanoes yeah when when I look at Broadway and and Boston it seems like a fine sight it is a busy intersection so why not just use that sight and same with the Darley or station for sure why not just use those sights and make a new station on those and then you can eliminate the costs I wish we could for both sides in fact if we could rebuild on on all of the sites to to expand what we need for those particular locations we would that's that's option number one every time I'll go into both station station 2 is a great location it's it's at the right

[78:00] spot the only challenge we have is that it hits right on to the main arterial which is not ideal for fire station access I get that when it was built it probably was a lot less traveled 50 years ago but what you tried to do is you try to go on a side street and then access the main arterial that station can't be expanded it actually houses one unit complement of three firefighters can't put anything else in it I have a wildland truck but in order to get the wildland truck out of the station when something hits in the interface we have to pull out the big truck the regular truck get it out of the way and then move the wildland truck out then put the other truck back in the bed obviously that causes response time problems for us so we can't expand the size of the bay we cannot go up we can't do anything we can't even respond out the back of the station if you if you're familiar with it there's a there's actually an access

[79:00] that goes out the back but we run into a problem with the the walkway and the bike path right there and we cannot drive out the back and onto there for a controlled intersection onto onto Broadway so so we can't use the back side of the station for response we couldn't even do a back to back kind of thing and we cannot use the station for anymore personnel than it has today was built when there are actually two person fire companies at the time that's for us to four was was a house right and that's the current state but but in what way could you not reconstruct it like so you have some access issues with the arterial but presumably you could build something that was taller and fit you know that we can't do so we can't actually we can't build up and change the roofline of the station we can't add out because that way it's at the property line right now and it like it why can't you build up I didn't understand so when we talked with

[80:01] planning that's that's I don't we have somebody from planning here now but but when we discussed the option it isn't an option for us to actually change the roofline on that structure and I don't know if it I don't think it's historical overlay I think it's just an issue of being able to go up at that location station for as a house is maxed out on the lot that it is there's nothing we can actually do to add on to it to actually add a unit to that station if we could it is barely fits the truck it has in there today and doesn't allow for any kind of while in response so I have a process issue I want to raise with council so we have another 40 minutes or so left on this discussion topic and I'm looking at the questions here and it looks like you've given this most of what we need to answer the questions would you agree with that would I know you've got a longer presentation but I've kind of gone through it and a lot of it has to

[81:00] do with financial outlook for the city and I get the sense from Council that what we really want to talk about is kind of near-term decision-making that we need to do these discounsel agree with that or I'm happy I have one thing I wanted to bring up here okay what I'm trying to make sure we have time for is from Council to discuss once we've got questions answered Sam just to follow up on that there seems to be a fair amount of interest in the fire housing going forward so perhaps we could get some kind of if not now at some point more information on how some of these decisions were made for example planning mm-hmm being the one driving the and it seems to me like the only and media I'm just trying to make buckets right there's stuff that we can decide in the longer term by two and four or finding

[82:00] out information now but three we really have to deal with that's right in front of us we have land built and you know so how we're gonna so I'm just trying to kind of use our time wisely so that we're setting ourselves up for this coming budget process and not during long term planning and that's what I'm saying is just but it still needs to come back the question ventually yeah well and there's the information can be had I would think sooner so yes we're diligently taking notes as I hear typing behind me the plan is to send out a Vance study sessions am I like we did after study sessions tomorrow for your packet Thursday outlining what items were following up on and timeline some of these things that are kind of more informational can be certainly just done quicker in the regular study session summary and some may come back during the budget process to depending on the relevancy to it so line item number 19 has is about the open space campus and

[83:02] you know I started hearing and I don't ever maybe I missed IP or something but I don't ever really remember the City Council ever approving the twelve million dollar campus for open space and I don't know where that came from and whose is that supposed to come out of open space funds the plan would be that would come out of open space funds and I know that they have been setting aside dollars to maybe the tune of right four million dollars aside so I don't think when people voted for open space they were thinking about building a campus so I guess I'd like to put some brakes on that and I guess I also am wondering why are we rebuilding or having everything new and I've been out to the cherryvale campus a lot and I know it's somewhat tight but it's a cool campus and so I don't know why you don't we don't use what we're what we have why we have to

[84:00] rebuild everything and why we don't do some cost-effective just expansion of our current facilities so we could ask Dan in the open space Department to provide more information the buildings out there and the reason that we left them is that they were dangerous of her staff to be in so yeah I would like to get that information I have a real problem spending twelve million dollars on an open space campus facility that just boggles my mind and it's just a voter I I never voted for open space funds that we were building a campus good feedback Thanks yeah just kind of follow up I'm Lisa's point just now um this kind of feels like a wish list of everything that anyone could think of some of them real high priorities that we're probably certainly gonna do and some of them are things that are probably way down on the list that we're

[85:00] not going to do anytime soon or maybe never do as Lisa just observed so I think the next time we see this it would be really really helpful to have some degrees of privatizations I know I think on that capital investment committee that you pointed me to Jamie Beck 2011 we had like Hayes B's and C's or something like that some sort of categorization so we know this is my wish list if money was no object we'd like to do this versus this is something we probably should do sometime the next five or ten years first is this is something we really have to do now because it's all kind of piled in here with a with a total of 205 million dollars and that's kind of a little unhelpful for us I know Sam's been in my view this is not a wish list this is a list of items that we have heard from a border Commission we have heard from council members we have heard from the community of things that people truly want and we are coming to you to say we can't afford all of this and we need your help in telling us which ones to

[86:01] move forward with and and so there are plenty of wishlist items that are not on this list these are things that some important person in the city has really made an effort around so the open space campus when you say the word campus it sounds like it's kind of highfalutin but it wasn't the intent at all the intent of that is to redevelop the old cherryvale site so that it works for open space the thought was possibly it could be a community room out there and there was also a thought about the viele house which is on the corner there that that could possibly be an open space Museum something like that so they're starting to think about how to redevelop that important piece of property that we have there's no source service out there right now and we would need to work with the county to get this and so the has been discussions I believe with the open space Board of Trustees about

[87:01] future ideas but it's a five or at least five years away from making that happen and that's why we put it on this part of the list but every single one of these items are things that we think we truly need or want and they are significant items but we may decide you may decide as you look ahead to the future over the next five years well no the open space is in a really lovely location right now we don't need to do that we're asking we're asking help us figure out what it is you want to do in the next five to seven years guess what I was saying Jane maybe not articulately is I don't see a staff recommendation here I don't doubt that somebody somewhere in the city thinks that these are all good ideas but what I'd like to hear from his staff is what do you think are the good ideas in other words tell us what's really really important and what's kind of nice to have and what's kind of like we probably won't do and I don't see that here this is just like a list of like everything

[88:00] that anybody could think of and now would be really helpful for for some winnowing to happen and I think it's gonna be challenging for us to do that when a wing without a lot I mean you heard a lot of discussion we had on fire stations and we could have long discussions at each of these items and so without a lot more detail we're not going to be a big decisions and I think the first step in that decision process which our staff to come back and say these are really important and these are not important and then we can we can agree or disagree with you but we don't have any any any prioritization here so let me make a suggestion just the use of our time I think these intermediate needs ones we should probably take responsibility for asking the questions that we want about them on hotline but I don't think we're gonna be making necessarily decisions in this budget cycle that are gonna impact those and what we need to make a decision about and guide staff tonight most importantly on is the near-term stuff so I think it's good that we have this because it's a list that we can think about and ask about but I think in the last half hour we have I'd like to have us talk about the answers to the questions with staff

[89:01] right out is that okay and is it okay with you if we don't go through the rest of your presentation I'm happy to expedite it I think setting context of what we saw coming year and would help you understand the financial capabilities going into 2020 but we can certainly breeze through some of those that are less important if that's okay well I just want to make sure we have time for counsel to have a discussion and while we've asked questions and done a little bit of that I think we need to dig deeper certainly don't think we need to do the same thing with the long term that we just did with the medium term and as I look through the rest if you want to briefly run through the funding situation but we don't need a timer on how sales and use taxes put together what we just wrote down okay so going into 2018 year end good evening Council

[90:07] Joel Wagner tax and special projects manager so I'm gonna run through these really briefly and we'll focus on the year-end situations so I won't get into all the definitions business use tax go ahead and bring up we budgeted a base for this of 272 million dollars for the ongoing needs for the 2020 budget this excuse me translates to about ten and a half million dollars in sales tax you can see that increased that gap between the green and the blue lines there is is your one-time needs or additional fund balance go ahead and go to the next one it's important to point out that the 2017 increased that peak there was related to one voluntary disclosure one voluntary payment by one business adjusting for that 2017 use tax was

[91:01] really right at the base for the 2020 budget similarly construction use tax started out during the Great Recession pretty low it's recovered since then it's bounced around a little bit the important thing to point out with construction use tax is that most of this is paid when an individual or a contractor pulls a permit with the city so by the time that you're seeing a hole in the ground or cranes in the air this this revenue has already been received and booked very high-level retail sales you can see we took this time scale out a little bit further since the recession we've had some good recovery in this having growth in the 2013's to fifteen in the two and a half to three and a half percent this stalled in 2017 let it recover a little bit in 2019 at 2.8 percent when we show retail sales we also like to show this adjusted for the

[92:00] cost of inflation we call this the buying power slide so the difference between the blue line and the Green Line is consumer price index so it the inflation cost so this just shows that as that gap is widening that means that our retail sales growth larb sorry our total sales and use tax growth has grown at a rate that has oftentimes not matched CPR not ashed inflation one thing I will point out on this one is that we're using consumer price index and as you've heard from others throughout the night construction costs have increased significantly so if anything this is a little bit under underestimated there okay so I'll cruise through this and I'm almost done so you today sales and use tax based on current economic activity increased by five point two million dollars or three point nine percent if we include audit revenues that was a six point 1 million dollar gain or four point five percent

[93:01] just a couple of highlights business use tax which was actually trending in the 20s and 30s percent through most of the year ended up down by eight percent and this is due to that one large Balan voluntary payment that I discussed a little bit earlier construction use track use tax did end quite strong at a 31 percent increase or $300 so this next slide just breaks out that six point 1 million dollar increase over 2017 and as Katie mentioned earlier a less than half of that goes to the general fund with the remaining being split split for dedicated uses so open space transportation and smaller amounts for Parks and Recreation and the community culture safety tax we spoke about these trends at length last year we think that these still continue to be the main drivers in those our competition from surrounding communities competition from online sales

[94:02] demographics yes most notably aging population and this is the most concerning one for us I'll talk about that a little bit and then just retail mix within the city of Boulder and we're working on the retail study that really examined this piece recommendations or the study and recommendations will be out there so Patrol we care about this largely because of tax issues in the budget discussion right what our revenue is online retail sales are now taxed correct they are now beginning to be taxed at this state Home Rule cities have not moved on this we're working closely with the Colorado Municipal League to coordinate how we approach this the state has made it pretty clear that if any home rule city goes out on their own they'll consider this a matter of statewide concern and kind of take matters into their own hands that's a concern for municipal for Home Rule cities because that defines

[95:00] the base and other things which we have significant concerns about especially here in Boulder where we tax certain things differently than the state does so we're working towards it we are seeing anecdotally businesses out-of-state businesses starting to get business licenses with us I haven't seen a meaningful increase in 2019 related to that but we only have one month of data so we're monitoring it and we're seeing who's coming in but at this point we have some voluntary reminders but we have not seen a big increase from them okay thanks so we worked with Phyllis Resnick she's the lead economist for the Colorado future Center at Colorado State University she identified three major drivers in boulders revenues and these are earnings wealth and then again the share of population over the age of 65 this share of population over the age of 65 is the one that has the strongest statistical significance in her models and the

[96:00] reason this is important is the state demographers office has put out this chart showing the forecast for the age share of old county residents over the age of 65 so older Americans tend to spend less on taxable goods and more on services and experiences and so we're seeing a pretty strong driver of that in the projections so miss Reznick came up with several models for us based on a baseline an optimistic prediction for each of those three factors and she came up with a range here you can see at the lowest at point nine percent growth and the highest at three point eight percent and the last column is the average ranging in the two to three percent and that's what we've used to inform our 2020 budget one thing to point out about that last one is that did not include any potential recession a lot of economists are predicting one in the next several years our current economic expansion will reach ten years in

[97:02] mid-2000 nineteen the longest one since date has been ten years so mr. Reznik modeled two scenarios including essentially mira 1 mirroring the Great Recession and one about half the Great Recession and you can see that here the blue line is our baseline revenue projections the two dips include a potential recession and what you can see is that these never really catch up to the baseline and that little dip there is where reserves would come in to continue core services when members of our community need it the most this is not included in our budget but we wanted to make sure that we we share it and talk about it I think we'll skip this in the summary and goes straight to council questions awesome thank you very much I will make one quick comment we heard at luncheon today and the

[98:00] calmness that was talking about the general economic consensus which is about a 33% chance of a recession before the end of the year so we stagger hard Adams who made that prediction such a recession would not be as great as we experienced in 2008 and so it would be somewhat softer and we could recover from that much quicker okay so on to questions shall we go down one by one because I think these are pretty big questions actually so I would say who wants to start off with the first question which is what should the 2022 2022 budgets focus on if there are available resources I think really that question is focused on the list and perhaps the slide that we were given that showed a staff suggestion which is back on slide 24 of the presentation

[99:05] which is the layout of funding approaches for this and I know that Mayor buy has to leave at nine o'clock right so if you yeah so you wanna okay that's helpful I'll ask the question then so the first question is of the immediate and intermediate projects discussed and I think we should just focus on the immediate ones as my comment being immediate ones are we saw that that could lead us to so what should we focus on in this list so I want to start off with the big elephant in the room and that's Alpine balsam and I am really wondering if we should continue in the path that we're going on and if it might not I mean we just it just is I was one of four council members that are on council now when we

[100:01] originally bought that we never anticipated that expenses that are in there right now I mean honestly I thought we would reuse the hospital and then we would sell off the rest of the land so that we had control basically on what was developed there but as we continue to go down this path I think it just were digging a hole we're not going to get out of and I'm wondering if we should just call it good and get rid of that and that's the big elephant that's in front of us and I mean we spent 40 million plus for that we now have 58 million dollar estimate to to redo the pavilion we have a the numbers always move we have sixteen million now to D construct the hospital we have another untold amount in terms of soil remediation abatement I'm still

[101:05] not sure in terms of how much funding is for the surface and subsurface I can't remember that amount but it is far more than I think any of us anticipated and I think we call it good and get out and try to sell that property ASAP on best possible conditions so that's what I want to start the discussion son I think we've gotten in I number one having been on that council you know the idea that came up at the very end and it was quickly pulled together and I'm not pointing fingers at anybody I think everybody tried to work together on this I think people saw it as a incredible opportunity but we honestly it was done so fast we didn't do our due diligence

[102:01] and we didn't and again I'm not pointing fingers because the buck stops here at the council and the council voted for this but I do think we should stop and and get out of it and I'll just leave leave it at that I I think it's just gotten way over what we anticipate it and we're putting the lion's share of our funds in the short term into this thing that's just going to take more and more and more and I'll just make a comment and this has to do some with some of Bob's and then looking and again it's not pointing fingers or anything everybody and I really appreciate you people putting this together so that we see full front you know how much money it's close to half a billion dollars is what we're talking about and what what really kind of

[103:01] jumped out at me was that there were all these buildings and city city building needs and very little put into residents needs and somehow that needs to be balanced you know we we continue and I'm at large I'm a big housing advocate but as we continue to add housing to what we have here we have to add services we can't be behind on services like libraries parks different kinds of services that people anticipate come in paying their taxes so somehow the next iteration of this has to have residents needs in there with city needs and I'll just leave it there but let's get out of Alpine and awesome well I'll just sort

[104:00] of Anna I wasn't on the council that voted to buy this so I'm out of that part of it but it is a rather shocking number for City staff offices particularly when on line number 31 in the intermediate needs we are sort of postponing one point 1.3 million dollars for vision zero needs and as I drive around the city and look at the potholes much less the state of our bike lanes some pedestrian access and such and see that this isn't one of our primary things right in front of us it's surprising and I agree with what Lisa says and particularly something like this which has to do with the safety of the people on the streets in all of their different modes and it's a mere 1.3 million as opposed to these many many many millions that are have just stacked up so as a relatively new

[105:00] councilmember recycling through that's just sort of my two bits on that Karen thank you for that Cindy because I mean I agree that the the safety of our of our residents needs to be high up on the priority list and so that those visions or efforts I think are extremely important and and I do feel like we need to pay more attention to the state of our streets I've been I mean I know it's the end of the winter season and yet freeze thaw and so it's a peak time for potholes but I just looking looking around as I walking bike and driver on the city I feel like word we're not fully maintaining our infrastructure that we have and I think we need to devote more resources to like the pothole filling and things like that some of those basic services at Lisa thank you for calling out the elephant in the room I've been getting increasingly concerned with dollar figures involved in the hospital I was not on the council that purchased it but I'm not pointing any fingers either and so I I don't I don't know what the the

[106:01] exit path would be but I think we need to explore it because I'm I think fundamentally when I look at the the resources required the dollar amounts the city resources of time and effort and such like that I'm not seeing us getting the amount of value to the city that we will need to put in in terms of dollars and resources so I think it needs exploring Bob I'll just go down the line and agree with my colleagues I just took some quick math here alpine ball snow alone on both the immediate and intermediate we had it all out that comes out to 75 million and that's 75 million out of 250 yet up the intermediate in me immediate columns it's it's almost a third of the amount amount of money we're talking about spending in the next five or six years and I agree that these numbers continue to surprise me the 58 million on the pavilion building and the deconstruction class seems to continue to escalate so

[107:00] I'm not saying I'm not why I don't want to declare that I want necessarily disposed of the Alpine balsam property but I think we need to have a big step back deep dive and talk about what we're doing here so I will echo what's been said and I just wanted to point out that item number 10 on the immediate needs is dealing with streets and potholes so I do think that there is something and we can certainly prioritize that and I agree with the sentiment that we need to kind of look and see what is what our basic fundamental services that we need to be providing to make sure that it's a safe community and and so I'm an agreement and I am also an agreement of we need to kind of step back a little bit on Alpine balsam and let's see what

[108:04] our options are because the numbers are staggering to look at just 15 million for deconstruction of a building is just outrageous so perhaps we you know maybe you we sell maybe we put it on a longer time horizon I don't know what the options are but I think we need to explore them and that would certainly open it up for other things that we could prioritize so I guess I'll jump on the bandwagon here um my one concern if we did let go of a plane bustle I'll play in Boston is control in terms of what we can control right now and how the outcome looks I mean again I understand that the monetary side is staggering and extremely concerning for me controls are

[109:01] really big issue though too so I just want to make sure that we're not getting if we do sell it or whatnot it doesn't end up to be boxes high-density that doesn't serve the community and it's just another ugly building in Boulder so that's just my one point on that and then my question to staff and I could just be missing it in here so if we were to somehow get out of Alpine blossom we need two other buildings that are currently being rented they need to be renovated is there an amount there because I mean some of the money there that that we were gonna go towards outside I'll play and awesome could then go to Brighton and whatever the other building I'm curious what those two so if you look at lines 21 and 22 that would be the rental space needed for the capacity of New Britain and parkcentral if the pavillion is not built that's an annual cost it's important to note both in the memo and I believe in a IP that was sent out that

[110:00] if you span that that dollar amount out it actually to remodel pays itself back versus the cost we would have lease it just would take time to do that so those are your two weighing options the smaller upfront cost or overtime the fact that we would be paying more and leases space sure but those two buildings do need to be fixed one way it's just it's what's feasible for us has an effect unfortunately yeah I'm obviously smarter to have our employees be in our property on buildings but at the same point if we don't have the money seventy-five thousand dollars just or 75 million dollars just to start we may have to do it the other way and just haven't unfortunately be that way so it's a give-and-take of of what we can do with our money so I don't understand what you just said the 2.8 million dollars is is a comparison to 58 million others 2.8 million annual versus 15 million capital on the preserving the building well 50 million it would be the

[111:00] the 72 million that we're proposing that you would bond for which would be about a four million dollar payment the comparable is four million dollars annual payment for a bond versus two million dollars in rents how do we borrow 72 million and only formula and that doesn't even amortize over 20 years that doesn't say that doesn't the math doesn't 30 years 30 this 58 million 58 first this 20s that's a 4% costs I mean if you factor the time value money we actually never get our money back right in other words 4% 158 million is 2.8 million dollars roughly yeah we would never actually get our money back I mean that's the fallacy of repayment which is just take your gross number divided by your smaller number and say oh yeah we could pay back in 27 years whatever but it ignores the interest cost at the time value of money right so if you've soon time value money is 3 or 4% to us you actually never get your money back Lisa

[112:06] you're saying that you wanted to see it more bounced with the community but I don't know I kind of feel like it just with as much focus as we're putting on life and safety well I mean I guess it technically comes down to life and safety with our fire departments I mean it does seem like we're trying to focus a lot on providing that service so I mean it's me it's I think there is a balance and right and I think public safety is very important to our community but I think also amenities like parks I mean Sam and I did we were assisted by Sarah Huntley and we did a council chat the other day so and we had a really good turnout and there were lots of people there talking about roads talking about parks and recs talking about life and safety so great well I just want to remind us of a couple of

[113:00] things here really quickly first of all there has been a pretty nice analysis done as long as the numbers haven't moved too much of what the payback time is for renovating versus renting and so that's all pulled together into place maybe staff could mail memo back out to all of Council on hotline again because I think it's worth reviewing because that by build question is something that we did take a look at so I can say that actually oh that analysis did not include the time value money there was no discount rate applied we could ask for a week actually and pretty easily but yeah it didn't but then if you put the time value money and it's probably gonna be close to wash and at the end of the day we then own the property so there's a residual value question as well but regardless of I don't disagree that we should be looking closely at Alpine balsam because it's a huge you know contributor it's a choice that we're having to make a point one other thing out though about Alpine balsam there's there's a few reasons we

[114:01] made the decision we did you know 40 million was not something taken lightly in the first place but it was land banking right the whole idea was that we could effectively control the outcomes that we got there not just from a design perspective but from an amount of affordability perspective so it was done for good reasons another thing is some of the the costs that are being shown is going in there like the infrastructure costs and so on we'll come back so this is something where we're putting you know dollars in we'll get those dollars back for the infrastructure but we'll also probably doing a Pollard and sell-off property to developers that's ready or close to ready to develop so we're gonna be getting money coming back in for those as well so as we do this these dollar figures promote sticker shock for sure but we should think about that's why I thought the questions about how to spread it out right so the four million a year

[115:02] interest costs was for some portion of that that we're spreading out probably for the pavilion building but it's similar for the rest of the expenses that go in is if there's a way to spread them out and then we could them there's still value I think and being able to control what ends up at that site because if we just let it go and we could we could turn around and sell it maximize what we get then it's really just gonna be a matter of the site plan review process and maybe any area plan that we get in there and the amount of affordable housing will just be dictated by you know the linkage fees in the inclusionary zoning so I think we should be careful about just yanking it we should be thoughtful about it and we should have staff come back and offer okay if we turned around and sold it what would that look like in other words would there be losses if so how much would they be you know so I think it's a really complex question and the the part

[116:03] that I keep coming back to is there will be money coming back in to replace the money that has to go out we just need to figure out when and how much yeah so I think that's true but I think we need to actually have a public hearing in a business meeting on Alpine balsam we bought that in late 2015 we have yet at least in my memory had a public hearing about it and we revisited the November 2013 November 13 2018 and these are study sessions and in if you read that memo it says council gave direction we do not give directions at City County at study sessions we I mean this is a point I brought up a year after year after year we make our decisions in business

[117:01] meetings not in study sessions so we you know I think staff is unclear we're unclear and I would just ask any Alpine bow something that comes back I don't want a study session I want actual hearing and I want a place where council can legally direct staff to do X Y & Z I think the staff to date has done a great job and they've worked hard on this so again I'm not pointing fingers but I went back through all of our study sessions they're getting this direction that shouldn't be happening at study sessions it should be happening in our business meetings so I'll just make that comment that might be helpful however we revisit this you know is revisiting agree with you so it would be helpful I think to unbundle the things that are time-sensitive in other words whether to

[118:01] sail that land or not that there's not much expand so there's a there's an ongoing interest expense I don't want to minimize that but I think the big decision we have to make here is whether and and how to deconstruct because I think you know the hospital is moving out in here in a few weeks and I think the staff is ready to move forward with the construction for our earlier instructions and so the billion billion I think is the biggest swing in that in other words they're gonna deconstruct a certain with a billion billion staying up I'm going to deconstruct in a completely different way it's a billion billion spent sticking around and I think staff needs to know that now right I think whether we sell delay on the underlying land or not is a different discussion and doesn't really cost us anything and I grew through like Sam is its land banking so I think that's a different decision sail versus not a sale versus how we deconstruct and I think staffs gonna need to know on deconstruction even before the sort of a budget I think they need to know like now cuz like bulldozers a roll in here this summer and so I think they need to know

[119:04] it takes months to get ready and of course part of the extra cost years that we're deconstructing it in a sustainable manner and so we there's lots of get ready time and so we're in the get ready time and I will know that this proposal to exhaust 2018 excess fund balance this is another way of saying you will see this in the first adjustment to face which comes before you May seventh and there is a public hearing scheduled for that so we could separate out and have this be kind of a separate piece and I think from my understanding of it so far it seems pretty clear that the pavilion building should be reused I think whether another story gets added to it is a little more discretionary but I kind of what I've from the staff analysis is the main hospital really has to go but you you really want to keep the pavilion building whether you're selling it or using it for City offices I think it has a value more value kept

[120:02] than is that it's complicated because if we are keeping the pavilion building and taking down the hospital there are I think two sides of the building that are just open and so we have to close those up and so that's part of the cost so we can provide more information and revisit the difference between keeping it or not it seems like what we're asking for you right now is some options as to how we can address our concerns and the the big-ticket items having to do with Alpine balsam so one of the concerns I've heard so far is the issue of well if we don't we're not controlling what goes on there what's going to happen and that could be a big concern for the

[121:01] community so there are things that we might be able to do to maintain some semblance of control for example form-based code so too things like how could we address the issue of control is is what are options there how can we address the issue of the big-ticket item well maybe we sell of parcels and and it's timed in such a way that works out with addressing the big expenses with the the pavilion so I think this is gonna take some thought and I think it's gonna be a process in and of itself but it sounds like the deconstruction does need to happen yeah today November study session and I get it the basement is

[122:00] unusable I'm still not convinced it does need to be deconstructed and the first floor is 92 thousand square feet and the second to fourth floor we have a hundred and sixty three thousand square feet I'm I I get it there's all this wiring there's lead shields there's copper shielding there's all of this stuff but I don't know why it just can't be raft and and used and I know I'm a minority voice on this but it makes no sense to me to take down something I mean it's one reason I didn't vote for 311 it's a hospital and they build hospitals like they build ships and they're usually very well constructed and to say that you can't repurpose one of those hospital rooms I've been in that hospital many times and you know many of

[123:03] those rooms have either their own private bath or they share it with the next door and there's a lot of different types of housing that could be accommodated here without taking this building down but I I do think we need to look at this in much more detail and when I just did just a simple little math thing because when asked to take 14 million out of this excess fund balance so I just started after the deconstruction which is in here at fifteen point two but we know it's much closer to sixteen and I just added lines 3 through 11 just you know just in sequence and that comes to 15 point 4 million and I would much rather spend my money on 15 point 4 million dollars on

[124:02] all of these different items 3 through 11 then put into deconstructing this hospital using this excess fund balance for deconstructing the hospital more information about what it would cost to keep the hospital and renovate it our early estimates are that it will be a hundred and seventy-five million dollars which is a bit more than what we're talking about I understand that but I wonder you know again Lisa I appreciate I think need to add staff for is what we want to see next to be making decisions and so I think we've given staff a lot of questions that we want to see answered before we go forward Cindy if I

[125:04] have a tangential since Lisa 11 and Mary brought up foreign based code and having the ability to control what happened to 311 I mean we haven't gotten any reports on the things that council asked to have happen to that at the end of the plan so let's let's have that as a request to staff completely separate us I just wanted to make one more comment in a separate item which Lisa brought up about the North Boulder Library branch which is currently it kind of one of the unfunded needs out of many many many including a number in the library I mean I just would like to make my intention clear and so you get this out there that we don't know exactly the funding mechanism but that there would be an intention from counsel that once that building is completed that we we actually run it and operate it and so I would like to see that move from the unfunded column into the plan to be

[126:00] funded column and and and be plant start planning for that now however that whatever that looks like one of the things that I just like to make sure gets addressed is that in the columns what we're looking at the costs that we're looking at all apples or all oranges it seems like things were mixed and it was really confusing yes that would be very much appreciated I think believe that request came across clearly just staff is that correct yep okay so let's see if we if we look at the question specifically let's look and see if we've answered them of the immediate intermediate what should the focus be what we've said so far is how high Boston is questionable in the current state which draws into question the expenses for it in the near term so I think we've we've answered that in the

[127:01] sense that staff knows it's an issue and we're gonna need to see options but it's gonna have a big impact on the budget you know so it seems like that decision or hearing from counsel needs to be reconsidered and it probably does have to be I mean the budget time frame is out to October and so we need to schedule in some additional scenarios and information on Alpine balsam does that sound fair to Council okay good so that's one of the parts of the answer to the first question and then the other parts of the answer to the first question are Aaron North folder librarian yeah no we got we got that and that was actually in the intermediate right there it'd be operational funding available for it and so that's still a little further out right so it's not in the 2020 budget which is what we're really trying to think about here so do we want to say

[128:00] besides alpine balsam do we want to hold fire on the other kind of near-term questions are there any of them that any council members want to say this absolute I mean I I'm gonna say I think Station three work needs to be funded it's a health and safety issue it's a life safety issue it's something we plan for a long time and we're in process on it so from my standpoint the station three work needs to move ad seems to disagree with that okay so there's a few pieces of clarity so I just wanted to reiterate what Lisa and I think Cindy brought up earlier too is to focus or to balance more on the community needs and wants rather than other things that might be nice to haves that are more having to do with office buildings and

[129:01] things like that so to balance more what what makes safety and health and safety of the community with the needs for to keep unengaged and great staff too because that's that's necessary and essential as well well I think that would I mean being that it's on the immediate I mean that Long's garden I think would be a perfect example of that so I hope that we can figure out some way of whether or not we use the one-time funds of the four million and then transfer them over to the general fund or if we can work out a program where they don't need all the money right away but I think that would be a huge benefit to secure for our community so maybe we want to be methodical and go down the line and one way to do that would be to

[130:01] prioritize one two or three the things that we're looking at I don't know if we want to go into that level of detail but it's relatively short list right it's it's hard to do that the numbers we were looking at our apples and oranges I don't think they are on the first short-term I wasn't suggesting then we go into the medium-term at all I was just asking for how would you like to do that so we have this list of short-term possibilities we're suspending for the moment Alpine balsam until we get more information so for me as I look down I see there are some things that are relatively inexpensive and people have been working on for a long time and fit into that community needs like the sister cities you know display area and Plaza as an example I think we should also prioritize the fire records management system you know because that was something staff suggested and because it's a life safety type of issue

[131:01] but is that immediate I mean in terms of risk management is yes it is immediate we must do it this is planned also to come before you and the first adjustment to face in me that's how immediate it is sir so just going on to these life safety issues I mentioned streets roads that's here so if we look at forget which number it is ten number ten I agree with that personally I view that as life safety and very important I almost crashed on the pothole last night so yeah I mean I said this earlier but I really feel like we need to pay more attention to the condition of our streets I think that's a high priority that's not being paid enough attention striping yep I would point out and we've said this but just since we're summarizing kind of looking at this I don't think the middle income housing support needs to be here at three million I think we can do it

[132:00] budgets I would take it completely off of this provided that we can doesn't mean stop the project it just means there's another source of funding I think is available for this how important is the Municipal Court software replacement at 750,000 so again all of the technologies are at the end of their life cycle so if we don't have it they're unsupported I would actually do we have a way to make sure that doesn't happen again I mean we should be paying into some kind of a fund every year we will be beginning to pay into our internal service fund that's the computer and software replacement fund that will need to come back because that'll be part of the budget so how much that is it would be a lot smaller dollar amount spread over you know just depending on the life cycle anywhere between 7 to 10 years and then there's item nine its $36,000 36,000 is five

[133:10] thirty six so another couple questions then on on eight which is radio services infrastructure is that an immediate need to if you want to similar knock it in the situation that you're in with other pieces of technology this would be a best practice to put away funds so that when the time comes for replacement you're not looking at a 10 million dollar ticket and you didn't we pass that in the cultural and safety you pass the replacement this would be to fund the ongoing portion of it to replace it when it comes up next without going back out to voters this is the pre planner that you're asking for so this is the first payment of the type of prepayment

[134:00] that you're asking for and so married to your point I view number nine as being the kinds of services and amenities it's the preservation of the level of service at the library no I agree that's that's one of those yes so so and I think nearby to your point the longest guardant and should be continued forward a multi-year payment would be a way to do that and so I don't know that we want to select a four point eight million dollar one-time payment right now so maybe we know and I and I agree with that the it's my understanding that the estimate hasn't the new appraisal hasn't come back yet and that the Long's family is pretty flexible on how that is parsed out so all of that could be worked out

[135:02] and there's also some potential funding that could come from goko funds so there's there are different things to consider on that one and and need some more discussion before we add it but it I agree with Sam it can go forward but with knowing that there's that somebody worked out yes that's exactly was male yeah and I think that makes sense to keep moving it forward but don't say 4.8 million this year right so I I have a question about the living wage increase is that just to keep up with what we implement it no what's that 2017 well good I thought that it was Katie's we had implemented in 2017 we said that we would come back during the budget process if the self sufficiency standard was updated they and just be updating it every couple of years and in December they released their report updating it for Boulder County and based upon preliminary analysis the minimum wage or

[136:03] the living wage of 1567 has increased and so if we were to continue on the path of following that standard at that mechanism that we calculated back in 2016 it be anywhere from a million five to maybe two million dollars when you look at a range based upon preliminary analysis just refresh my memory on how we deal with that it's not just the people who make the the minimum wage it's adjusted for everybody somewhat accordingly is that correct or yeah so there's two different pieces of it so there you could be that you just want to given the fact that we're in this compensation analysis citywide to look at market rates you could just say let's just bring everyone up to that base pay right so everyone that's fifteen sixty seven now comes up to the new rate it does cause compression and equity issues which is what you're saying is that yeah yeah next step of it

[137:00] and that's where you start talking in the higher dollar amounts of one point five to two million dollars yes so I mean I think if somebody could come back with that type of analysis and I guess I would not being in employee relations or unions I would like to know a little bit more about compression and how I mean we got that originally so if I could make a comment here I have a little spreadsheet going and if we defer Alpine balsam and we eliminate middle income housing and we have Long's garden which is an ongoing process which may result in payments that leaves about twenty five million in short term which is about how much money we have now I don't know how it breaks down to long you know one-time and ongoing column three you'll notice a lot of those are ongoing and the one-time draw is the fourteen million so just as a reminder there's balance between the one-time an ongoing tools

[138:01] that you can use yeah I'd like to think about that a little bit but I would just say and I'm not saying that we're gonna decide it here but I would just say that with those changes we have a closer budgetary match and I'll let you figure out like what that means and how to is there a way to rejigger the different buckets of money that we have to meet that and I'm not I'm not summarizing for Council but we think help in ball is off at the table the deconstruction we just need more time to think about that and on a different point that you brought up earlier I I think it is probably time to make marijuana funding ongoing rather than one time I know we still get the same amount of money right but if it's ongoing that it's flexible you can either use it for something every year or you can dedicate it to one-time funds so I'd like to go ahead and see us get that budgetary flexibility was it 30 odd states that have some form of marijuana and how many

[139:00] have recreational now and it seems pretty safe yeah I agree we look at this every year at least for the past several years to determine whether it was time and this time last year there was a lot of consternation around what federally was going to be done so we were safe and kept it in one time so I think we've covered the first bullet at least well enough to and then let's look at the second bullet any other priorities and I think what that means is outside if anything we've discussed already tonight do we have operating for North Boulder we've ended several times so I think it's clear that there's gonna be an appetite for having that in the future budgets after it's constructed anything else is council comfortable with the continued goal of 20% reserves by 2020 I've never been that comfortable

[140:01] with it but we're almost there and we're gonna have this we're gonna take a step back with the Muni stuff that has been talked about so I would say I'm comfortable with it if it's flexible if everyone realizes it's not set in stone particularly since these other entities departments have their own reserves as well as we learned yes I just have to say that I think reserves in a time of climate change pretty important I agree Mary but what I was referring to specifically unless I'm misremembering is that utilities had enough in their reserves to take care of the 2013 event so a lot of those funds were and then this is what the city had was over and above or the general fund I should say but that's

[141:01] I mean I I agree but we were ready to go and that's you look at the county the county was not ready to go and that's because they don't have the reserves that we we have and I was I we were ready to go and but again they they did come out of the Enterprise Fund so all I'm saying is that if it is a 20% reserve in the general fund that it needs to be flexible yeah and I think that flexibility also says that when opportunities arise it's not only when crises arise I think it's also an opportunity to rise as long as we try and build it back up yeah I still think it's really important to consider that climate events could make it such that you don't climb back out and I think we need to keep that in mind okay any further questions about the financial

[142:01] outlook so I think this gets to the last part of the presentation about looking forward revenue aging population to be have any comments from staff on that I think you can see it coming just as much as we can so I just have one comment is the retail studies gonna come before us and I think that that made have some influence on the next time we look at the budget so I think that'll be an important piece well and I was interested in some of the things that Joel said about out of state and and doing retail and adjusting our taxes accordingly but we can't do that yet and we're working with the Colorado Municipal League and so I would that's been like two decades long at least discussion and I would hope

[143:01] that we keep our eye on that and I'm sure we are and work with the Municipal League to make sure that that outcome happens just to be clear we do get some online sales taxes I don't want anybody to walk away thinking we get none of it and we're we haven't gotten around to figuring out I think for example much of what Amazon sells sells we get paid sales tax for right I'm not necessarily everything but much of what they saw correct correct Amazon and a few other large businesses are registered and aren't voluntarily remitting the sales tax and we are working very closely with Colorado Municipal League Carl Castillo is very much monitoring this as well as the sales tax staff and yeah the goal is to have something implemented that works and doesn't violate the Commerce Clause and benefits us for the long term okay anyone else I'll just make one last comment please when I first came on we

[144:03] had less than a 2% reserve huh so I have to say our staff has done an incredible job at increasing that reserve and previous councils in this council and in increasing it and we're in a fat and happy stage not as fat as we would like to be never but I just appreciate the conservative conservative being conservative with our budget and it's a much better place to be in then I found ourselves in when I first came in in 95 and realized we didn't even have 2% Reserve okay anyone else kind of end with wow this is seemingly shocking it is an introduction to conversation that's going to be iterative over the coming months and years so it's just meant to take all the

[145:01] pieces that you've heard in various study sessions or public hearings and put it in front of you so we can start to game plan to make a sustainable in long term so thank you for bearing with us and we'll have a lot of follow-up that you'll be seeing okay on to the second part of the study session

[146:24] yeah so so Chris and Melissa are not coming Ron's here yes okay I kind of live here actually lost everybody yeah

[147:03] we finished up while you're gone yeah it's all good you know if you guys want to sit at the table you're welcome to you have to sit back there you're gonna be on TV regardless TMI yeah yeah

[150:46] ready to go yep Thanks so this is a continuation of study session this is the report of the sexually violent predators working group with us tonight is the fabulous Heather Bergman who is facilitated the group also Ron Gossage

[151:01] commander Ron Gossage who was representative of the group we had two other members who were planning to attend one had an emergency this evening and couldn't attend the other one we haven't heard from so we're hoping that that they can come by but that one of them can come by but this may be it and of course chief test is here as well if you have any questions for the chief so at the end I'm going to ask you these questions about the recommendations and implementations of a non consensus recommendation but I'll give you some background first I'll walk you through the recommendations and then come back to the questions I just wanted to make sure you'd seen them up front before we got into the presentation and considering the hour I will try to do this as quickly as possible while trying to do justice to the hard work of this working group which was an excellent group of individuals who divided it devoted a significant amount of time to this effort so just give you some history you may recall that when Christopher lawyer who was a violent rapist who committed a stranger rape in Boulder who many people remembered was

[152:00] released into the community a lot of the community was very concerned particularly when he ended up living at the homeless shelter and so that created a community conversation about how we deal with sexually violent predators and but particularly since we seem to be seeing more of them and I'll talk a little bit about that in a minute so this is a history of counsels involvement there was not a five to go forward there was a discussion as you recall principally focused on whether or not there should be residency restrictions that his distances from parks or daycare centers or things like that as some other communities I believe for the communities in Colorados have adopted the council had had two public hearings and in January of 2018 appointed a working group the working group met met throughout 2018 and issued its final report in December and because of the president council business this is what the first chance we've had to present the report to you this is a list of the working group members it was an interesting group I had the honor of being staff members supporting it along with an large as you can see it's diverse a

[153:03] lot of professionals this is this is very difficult subject matter and a lot of things are counterintuitive we had very strong community representation and some really good discussions a lot of the the process though was educating those of us who don't necessarily work in this area about the difficult issues that your face when you deal with sexually violent predators so just a real quick overview of sex offender registration and particularly sex a sexually violent predator this is really a notification provision the idea is that when you have someone who's endangered dangerous in your community you have a right to know about it which is as far as it goes a very good thing the challenge is that there isn't a whole lot that you can do about it and the communities tend to get frustrated when you tell them we're putting somebody in your community who we believe is dangerous but there's really not much you can do and so that's a

[154:01] challenge so the the the the first sexually violent predator law was adopted in 1994 after the rape and murder of a young woman named Megan Kanka it was during the Clinton administration it requires registration with local enforcement depending on the offense registration can be 5 10 20 years or even life sexually violent predators register for life but can be petitioned to remove from the list and this is a very important point registration can exceed the period of post-release supervision and what I mean by that this is something we had a lot of trouble getting our heads around generally when you're released from prison you're on parole and so if you're on parole and you violate you go back and so it's basically what the courts do is they say when you get a sentence of say 20 years and you get released early ten years they have ten years to actively supervise your reintegration into the community and hopefully prevent you from from reoffending since sexually violent predator designation can be for life often

[155:00] sexually violent predators are no longer on parole so what that means is the state has no supervisory authority over them at all they can't tell them what to live they can tell me so what to do they can't monitor them the ankle but so a lot of the things we talked about in the context of a Christopher lawyer who was of course out on parole and therefore hat was subject to state supervision are important but it's more problematic as we get to the aging population of sexually violent predators who are going to be out with no state supervision at all so it is a very challenging thing and one that they said we spend a lot of time learning about and so this is a quick definition of of a sexually violent predator that it had they have to be convicted of sexual assault unlawful sexual conduct or sexual assault of a child by position and one trust the victim was a stranger or the offender promoted the relationship of the purpose of victimization who based on a risk assessment is likely to Rhea fend of the things we learned very much about that is that that is more of an

[156:02] art than a science and courts initially were more likely than not to make the determination that someone was likely to reoffended because of course they're predicting the future and nobody knows the future there are approximately eight hundred sexually violent predators in Colorado these day this day is probably a little bit stale but not all that stale 542 are incarcerated seven on life sentences with no with no parole so the importance of this data though is that as you see with the average sentences thirty five point six years they're gonna start more and more get start getting out and so you know we were sort of shocked when we had we had never had widow nor than one at the shelter and suddenly we had four and people were just sort of up in arms and how could that be happening well what's happening is when you put in something twenty years ago and you have an average sentence of thirty five point six years people start getting out and so you have more and more and it is incredibly difficult to house a sexually violent predator most people won't rent

[157:00] to them it's they have trouble getting jobs so a lot of them end up as homeless and as you'll see when I give you the data here the data for both are currently data for Boulder we have one hundred and sixty sixteen sex offenders are currently registered in the city of Boulder three of whom are sexually violent predators to list the homeless shelter as the registration address so it's a continuing problem of finding a place and if you ask the police apartment they would rather know where the person is sleeping than not and so we've seen sexually violent predators registered as the ape at the vacant building on 55th Street and that's not really good if you're if you're a police department worrying about somebody who has been committed a violent crime in the past and has been adjudged to be likely to Rhea fence so the problem that the the community the working group talked a lot about was how do we figure out a way to house these individuals and also put them in a situation where they're less likely to Rhea fend them and as you'll see the recommendations focus on that also on better community

[158:00] notification but let me talk a little bit about Christopher lawyer who is a significant concern for our community his parole was revoked you remember remember that he ended up in California he committed some more vital parole violations he came back his parole was revoked in July of 2018 chief testa went and testified actually at the hearing to make sure that the parole board understood about how concerned our community was about this man his original sentence was 12 years to life so they do indeterminate sentencing he got our early he's now back he has another eligibility hearing this July and we will monitor that hopefully he will not get out but just as a heads up if he gets out our community is going to be very concerned if he tries to come back here again and to some extent he is from here it's fair that he tries to come back here but he committed a very heinous crime and that was very notorious in our community and sex offenses generally are committed against someone someone knows stranger

[159:01] assaults are very unusual and tend to be more violent and even deadly and so he committed a stranger rape of a woman who's delivering newspapers so he is among the worst kind of sex offender the one we worry the most about so we will keep you apprised of what happens and keep the community informed and some of these recommendations will also help with that Heather you can correct me anytime you want okay actually so there were eight consensus recommendations and one recommend that was pretty much made by one member and not supported by the rest of the the group and but to give that to honor that recommendation I'm going to present it to you and you saw one of my questions was are there any parts of that the council would like us to work on implementing so there were recommendations pertained to housing and employment to communication and community education and the SVP notification process and then the the bigger one that did not get the consensus support was for a long-range program of an integrated program of

[160:02] addressing sexually violent predators so that and there are some issues with that which I'll discuss as I get into it so one of the biggest challenges is housing and how you you so people tend to be less likely to offend if they are part of a community and have a support system if they are out on their own they are more likely to offend just generally true so that the group recommended that the city seek parvis privates part public-private partnerships to incentivize the private sector to provide housing and show the commitment to addressing SBP housing issues especially given the growing population of SB Fifi the future the purposes recommendation is say there isn't we can't necessarily guarantee something but this should be on the city's work planned to at least try to make sure that we can do something to get housing for SV PS having them homeless or having them at the shelter are both bad alternatives and you know we've modified the operating agreement with the shelter

[161:00] to limit the number of VPS who can be there so it's not an option for everyone into one right to one member is it one of their to their now so but they were getting there through attrition rather than immediate good that's the line yeah so I had a question on you know you have these partnerships and these are all government type partners right and so are you talking about these government type partners would try to identify someone in the private sector that would identify housing for the city would work with these partners because these are all people who have some say over at least somebody who's out of on parole mm-hmm and so the there there are halfway houses and there the the idea is that to work proactively with the city and the city the city being a partner rather than just being notified hey this guy's in your community and so to have our housing

[162:01] folks looking for partnerships so that we're not in a situation where you have somebody who is like mr. lawyer out on the street homeless but generally would be looking for some private entity that would have the housing yes that was the idea and then the second one is to look for evidence-based programs that help reduce recidivism this circles of support and accountability program has been used around the country it focused it has volunteers who focus on resocialize improve IDing support ex-offenders it's a model that has worked elsewhere it has been in place in Colorado but not but it's it's a little it's dormant now and there have been some issues it's always challenging to get enough volunteers and even ex-offenders who are willing to participate at the level that requires for the support of someone who is this level of risk and so but the the the program is generally a good idea and and the group supported it community

[163:01] communication and education so the recommended that the city put information regarding the SPPs on the city website with links to relevant studies and consider developing a fact sheet that has key statistics and information about SPPs one of the things the group wanted to do was Demuth's the size this there you can't sort of hide the fact that s VPS are out there or what they are but understanding the limitations on what you can do and having the information out and we've got some of it on our website already about what best practices are what things really are effective what aren't I mean you remember this whole discussion was about residential restrictions the group is not recommending that in any way I mean I think all the data we saw was that those don't really work and they tend to make that they could make things worse so that that's not a recommendation of the group and then the second one they wanted to make sure that incoming councilmembers were aware of s VPS and the issues so they asked that as part of the orientation that we do when we onboard

[164:00] new council members that we include a little bit about s VPS and what we're doing and what the history in the past so they you all were kind of had this jump on you and Christopher lawyer was sent here they want to make sure that incoming council members have a little bit of background before they're they take office there was a lot of concern about the notification process and too many extra largest in the notification process is designed for most places where no one ever shows up and so you have a whole process a script you have questions on cards and you'll have two or three people in the room when they did the notification for Christopher a lawyer the room was packed and with angry individuals who felt that they were be they that their neighborhood was being put at risk and the the standard notification practice especially the community members who participate they felt that it wasn't adequate for that so they'd like to see improvements in how we do it they know that there's an

[165:00] acknowledgment that the folks who do this are constantly reassessing and I wish Melissa was here she was one of people are gonna come because she's she does this and she was very informative about the things they've tried to do to make it work and actually and the learning that they got from this meeting which it was described as unique in the history of notifications in the state because they just they don't usually have several hundred angry people in the room and the boulder is not a place where people's comments are generally put not written on a card people want to be able to talk and so they needed to be done better and so they're there they're there they're learning from that so the group recommended that the Traverse will recognize that the entities that are doing this are trying to do a better job they want to make sure we get the word out when one of these things happening so people are not surprised in showing it learning about at the last minute and that that the City Council be informed whenever there's a notification meeting

[166:01] so that you all can participate and you can all put it out to your list so that people know that it's happening so whenever we have a new SVP in town there would be a notification process that you would be informed for so these three specific recommendations for the notification provide the information that community means allow people to ask questions as I said that people were unhappy about having things having to write their questions on cards and have some somebody selected that's kind of a crowd control thing that they do but it's not Boulder and so they didn't want that and allow the expression of opinions that generally those meetings are structured as an information meeting this is what's happening this person's coming in community there isn't anything you can do about it but that didn't go over well in Boulder and I and I'm not faulting anyone the this as I said mr. lawyer is a real problem people are perfectly

[167:00] justified in being really angry about him being in the community again and the process that that that was set up was not really designed to deal with that situation in our community so those that's the end of the consensus recommendations there's a there's another recommendation that was more comprehensive and it was drafted by one by one of the community members who was appointed the board and she put a lot of thought and work into it there are problems with it and it would require a significant expenditure of funds by the city to implement it basically would require the city to provide housing and contract with an SDS VPS in which they would agree to certain things like not living within a hundred thousand yards of a school and so there would be a contractual relationship that would fall off after a while one of the things we heard was if someone's going to reoffended to reoffending the first five years if they haven't reoffended in five years they're probably not going to

[168:00] reoffended resources partnering with the the folks I've described up there to integrate them to create an integrated program that would address SV PS provide them with housing on a contractual basis and also require them to take steps to make sure to do the things they need to do to make sure they don't really so stay in the contract housing for five years there would be incentives paired with voluntary requirements targeted the abusers are not being supervised so the remember I said that a lot of the folks who are out are no longer on parole so the state has no compulsive ability to have them do anything by providing them housing you would have a contract we would then have the convulsive ability to have them do things we were to reward them longer they participate and focus on incentives so you see in exchange for housing they'll avoid going to a playground school public pool there was some more specifics on the next slide the the

[169:03] residential restrictions that some of these things would drop off and then of course the the bottom one it would not be limited to North Boulder which tends to feel a lot of the impacts because that's where the shelter is and so there there was as I said the the support was because if you're really gonna solve this problem you need an integrated approach you need to spend money on it and you need to focus on it the there was not broad support because in part the city has a lot of housing needs and how you would make the choice to spend money for housing a sexually violent predator than a family that would be the choice because someone be getting a unit that somebody else couldn't get would be difficult the units would tend to be in lower-income housing so you're putting a dangerous people a person in a community that's vulnerable already so there were concerns about that approach and also making Boulder Boulder has a per capita

[170:02] a relatively no low number of sexually violent predators the the highest is pueblo bubble has has I think 14 per hundred thousand and we have three per hundred thousand so the the so we don't tend to attract sexually violent predators in part I think because our housing costs are so high and we don't have a prison here I think pebble has a lot because their prisons down there and people tend to just stay there Denver has it has a lot as well long months about the same as we are so the the the integrated approach is a very thoughtful and careful approach not sure it's something that should be a City priority any communities that do that not that I'm aware of no you didn't hear it no and so I want to make clear that the committee did not the workgroup did not recommend an ordinance imposing residence restrictions which was part of our original charge you'll recall that

[171:00] we even actually I think drafted one at one point the council had a hearing on so that's not a direction the working group recommended and now I am back at questions for Council did you want to add anything thanks Tom I think the only thing that I would add is the commute we had three representatives of the community just regular folks who live here for for Nadia yeah Chris three Nadia Chris and Pat yeah and then we had a lot of experts we had people from your Police Department we had people from the DA's office so it was an interesting mix of people with varying degrees of expertise and varying degrees of concern obviously someone like Christopher lawyer scares everyone but if you were familiar with the system some some people find great comfort in that familiarity with familiarity with the system and others who don't have the familiarity don't have that comfort this was a this was a hard conversation not

[172:00] just because the topic itself is very uncomfortable and very scary and very emotional but also because we more than most groups that I facilitate for you this group there's a huge gap in knowledge and they spent many many meetings just trying to kind of to bridge that gap of Tom providing legal information folks from the police department providing their experience their experice pect 'iv lawyers from both sides both defense and prosecution mahir how hard these people were to try to come to an agreement sometimes I work hard to get groups to an agreement for you this case this group worked really hard to find an agreement and just the the technical and legal complexity of it made it very hard for them they leaned in and this is what this is where they got great well thank you for the

[173:03] presentation and thank you gather for being here as always so we have three questions and first I guess do we have any questions to ask staff do we have any budgetary guidance on any of these recommendations now okay and the ones that are consensus are a heavy-lift that was my sense as well yeah okay okay shall we start with the first question anybody have any thoughts on it I mean I could kick us off I'm Heather thank you for your work on this process it feels to me like the group worked really hard and came up with a really solid set of recommendations I appreciate the community members involvement and then all the experts and seems like they were able to come together and reading through them as I as I looked through my packet mica oh yeah makes sense Oh sounds good hey

[174:00] let's do that so to me the they I know they took a lot of work but then you read them and you just they just feel like they make sense yeah exactly you did you did so I mean I think we I personally would say we just move right on forward with the consensus recommendations and the non consensus goes no I mean I really appreciate that community members work on that but that's their it involves a level of resources that I think is this is not where those resources should be focused I came to the I came to the same place where Tom was how do you decide a family who needs housing or a sexually violent predator so I mean I think most of us know which although the part of the the idea it seemed was of having this very integrated approach was to get past that first five-year period right so that the person would be less liable to to recommit

[175:01] and in looking at that I thought you know it's too bad this is left to communities to have to deal with the funding should be there and it should be there from the feds or from the state or something to help but they more and more of this comes back on to the communities who are the least able to deal with it do you how do you feel about moving forward with consensus recommendations yes okay and I really appreciate as well the work that was done the people who are involved in it I think it's really really great that this was accomplished so on the last question next steps what kind of work needs to be done on the part of staff like getting new council members ready a factsheet those kinds of those things I think we can do in my office I think the heaviest lift and I sent this to Kurt fern Harbor is the housing peace coordinating and looking because

[176:01] there is that recommendation in there and that's gonna require some staffing from housing and Human Services and I'm happy to report back to you on that but you know I helped prepare the materials for the new council onboarding and so I can do that and the police department has a lot of data there's some limitations on what we can disclose now the state limited we used to have names and pictures on the website yeah I would be interested in tracking how much time housing staff does have to work on this and if it's proportionate to number of people served I mean if we have three sexually violent predators that's a small number and I just would not want our staff disproportionately spending their time finding housing for three people I guess as it was my budget question which is which is these are all sound great recommendations I just don't want us to be surprised and have spent a lot

[177:00] of money on this without knowing about an advance that was not my intent yep man I am too so it sounds like this is gonna be a pretty easy decision I appreciate the time the community put in and cheap testa and your staff and everybody else who was involved with this it looks like we've come to a pretty good place I'm in the same place I think everyone else's move forward with these don't spend too much time on it the non consensus recommendation would probably be great but probably needs to be supported by a larger scale program and so yeah I think that's good anybody else have anything that they want to add well it's a lot calmer now than it was two years ago in the heat of the moment and so I really appreciate everybody kind of taking a time out from that heated moment and having time to kind of

[178:04] think this through and resolve it so thank you well there's a possibility we'll have another heated moment and I think it's what some of the recommendations really focus on is not only how do you deal with it but how do you learn from it so that if it happens after that that you better so I think it's great they got anything else I think we're done - Parris on phone my god