June 26, 2024 — Beverage Licensing Authority Regular Meeting

Transcript

Captions from City of Boulder YouTube recording.

[0:03] Alright call to order the beverages. Licensing authority, hearing for June 26, th 2,024. Certainly. Roll call member Absalom. Remember Absalom, present. Member Carr. For card, present. Member Califano. Remember califano present. Member Roberts. Remember Roberts, present. And you will note we have an additional member. In our zoom. Today more information will be coming here in a few moments moving on to the approval of beverage licensing authority. Minutes for May 15, th 2024. Chair. Are there any edits from any of the Board members member Califano will abstain, since he was not present.

[1:01] I have noticed, but I will make motion to approve the minutes. Remember, Ascan would second that one. All in favor. Say, aye, member. Califano abstained. Number, absolutely. Member car. I. Member, Roberts. I most. And passes for hearing agenda issues from the licensing clerk I'm proud to introduce and to swear. In this afternoon our new member, Brendan Hagerty, appointed by City Council, June 20.th Mr. Hagerty. We're gonna swear you in now, if I can get you to please raise your right hand and repeat after me. I state your name. Hi, Brendan, Haggerty. Do solemnly swear or affirm. To solemnly swear or affirm. That I will support the Constitution of the United States of America.

[2:02] I will support the Constitution of the United States of America. And the State of Colorado. In the State of Colorado. And the charter and ordinances of the City of Boulder. And the charter and ordinances of the City of Boulder. And faithfully perform the duties. And faithfully perform the duties. Of the office of a member of the Beverage licensing authority which I am about to enter. Boy I can. I can do it in pieces if you'd like. Let's do that. Yeah. And faithfully perform the duties. And faithfully perform the duties. Of the office of a member. Of the office of of a member. Of the beverage. Licensing authority. Of the beverage. Licensing authority. For which I'm about to enter. For which I'm about to enter. Thank you.

[3:03] Alright. We do have one other item for this. One of the applications on scheduled today. The attorney is present for other agenda items, and she will be asking for a continuance. and that would be agenda. Item number. I apologize. I'm switching through too many tabs here today. That is going to be for agenda. Item number 10. Okay. Next agenda. Item is matters from the boulder police department. There it goes. Can you hear me? Okay. yeah. I'm Officer Lee Iraq with the boulder police department. let's give you a quick update year to date. I've got 200, or I'm sorry. 200 813 fake ids for 2024, and believe it or not. They're still rolling in for 2023. So we're up to 1,563 for 2023

[4:16] so far, this year I've completed 73 compliance checks with 14 violations. The inspections of the liquor establishments have resume this month, as have the bar checks and inspections during the the evening hours. And then there was one other item I wanted to bring up, and it was just getting some input from the board about a disturbing trend that I am getting a lot of information about and I'm not sure how to proceed with this, because there is quite a few of them, and that is the liquor license establishments just accepting fake IDS without really doing any checking to make sure that they're a legitimate, valid id. They see a a fake. Id. They see that the individual on the id that the date is okay. It makes them over 21 or 21 or over, and that's it. There's no other checking. They just they accept it at face value. And I'm hearing that. It's, you know, even as young as high school kids are understanding that that's the trend. And so I'm just looking for some input from the board on

[5:27] you know, some ideas on what we can do to try to help and combat this and make sure that they understand that that's, you know, not acceptable and that it's a it's a bigger. It's bigger picture than just serving. You know the individual in front of them. Alcohol. It actually rolls out and spills out into our community. making it pretty dangerous to have these young individuals consuming alcohol, and the license establishments are aware of it. We've had complaints from anonymous complaints, I should say, from employees letting us know that, hey?

[6:05] Management is aware of this, but yet they're still. They told us to go ahead and accept these ids as long as it says that they're 21. So with that said, I'm just looking for some input from the board on some jets, suggestions, or some input on how to start working through that trend. Yeah, that is pretty disturbing. for my initial thoughts. The only thing that I think that it's going to deter this is, if they get caught in a compliance check. Because how are we going to know otherwise? Because they're just they're not taking the Id. They're not. you know. Th there's no other step in that process that would assist in deterring. I'd be curious as to what the other Board members think. Yeah, this is number absolute speaking. I just wanna kind of go to the state liquor code on this in terms of how it works. We city Buller cannot run any compliance checks with a fake. Id.

[7:01] So I'm not sure how you you can't run a compliance check with someone using a fake. Id correct. That's against the law. No, you can. I did check with the city attorney and with our legal advisor, and we are allowed to use fake ids and compliance checks. However, it's not something that I would feel comfortable doing it every single time. As my concern is that the requirement of licensee isn't necessarily. If if a fake Id is so good, I get what you're saying in terms of people being so young, and if it's an obvious fake, Id. What the whole protocol would be. Would you call police house? Call the police station right away right? And and hold that id to confirm if it's real or not to put it the onus on a license fee to. If it's a really well done fake Id. I don't know that you could really put that requirement onto a license. See? I'd I'd be willing to to get the rest of the Board's opinions on this, but I think there's kind of a

[8:02] slippery slope there legally. in my opinion. It is a disturbing trend. You know I had a couple of thoughts here one which is you know what type of communications or outreach are we doing within our schools? Especially like the high schools? You know, to parents and letting them know this is, you know an issue that we're seeing. And you know, teachers as well, like people in the community community organizations that can help. You know, you reduce this type of risky behavior. But then, you know, on this side of the the licenses is very concerning that. They're not, you know, pulling, pulling the law, and my, my thought there is, could we incentivize employees to, you know, report these type of issues to the city anonymously or in some way? you know that that would, you know, motivate them to? To? To speak out about these things when they're happening? Some sort of anonymous tip line, or something like that

[9:09] or we also alternatively incentivize licenses by hey? If you're turning in these fake ids, you know, we offer some sort of bounty or something of that nature. My other thought is that potentially the bars program? Because do they use fake ids? Are they real. I'm under the understanding. The bargain is the same as that. Clients. Compliance checks that the city boulder does with people who are, in fact underage. That's my understanding. That was also just kind of my understanding. Again, I'm not. I was under the impression that you can't put the like on a licensee. If it's a really good fake Id, and it looks real. there's no kind of reasonable doubt to not let that person in, although we're training people and fake ids as much as we can. If the fake id. Obviously there's scans and all those things. But there's fake ids that scan I think maybe this is a great area, and I think it's important, and is, it's concerning to me, because managers who are looking at this are saying, hey?

[10:11] If this is a really good fake, Id. If there's any question, I think there just needs to be this line. If there's any question at all, you should call Dpd. And hold that person there. That's actually how operators should always do it. The second, there's a question about an ID whether it be fake, whether it be underage. They should be getting involved. The city, and that generally will weed out people with fake IDS, I mean the second, you say, hey? Wait right here. I'm trying to have a police officer come and validate this for you. and that should be the policy of every license to see the city boulder. In my opinion. Officer rack Can I just have a little clarification? Are you saying that these high schoolers are just using their own ids as well and establishments. So it's not just what is the trend? I thought you said that it was. They're just giving them to anybody doesn't matter if the age is correct or not like even.

[11:07] Yeah. It's oh, sorry. Go ahead. No, no, I think you understood. Yeah. Yeah. So the information that I'm receiving is that if there are fake ids. So our high school or high school kids are getting indeed getting the fake ids. But the establishments are just taking a quick glance, making sure that it says that they're, you know, of age to consume alcohol, and and that's the end of it. There's no scanning. There's no books out comparing to make sure that they are good ids. and and I'm not gonna lie there. The ids that are coming in are very good, and some of them do scan. I've had this conversation with my coworker. Who's the marijuana officer and the marijuana industry. They do have to have scanners. That's a requirement. They do have to have video. That's another requirement. And so you know, I feel like our alcohol should be just as important and taken just as serious because of how quickly it can spill out into our community and the dangers that surround that. And so, hearing that, you know the establishments are

[12:10] just glancing at the Ids. Not really taking it into a account, you know, scanning them, or looking at the book to make sure that they are, you know, comparing to what they have for the current. the current id book. That's that's what's concerning is, it's just a quick glance. And that information has spread out into our high schools. And that information was given to us by a parent of one of our boulder high students that hey? This is the rumor that's out there, and that's you know. When I heard that that drew my attention to it. And it's it's not just high school kids, it is, you know, also our college age students as well. That's a really interesting point about like our cannabis shops. They do seem to have quite a bit more scrutiny to get into them. What? What is the

[13:02] deal with that? And do you know do you know how we can enforce something more strict like that? Or do you happen to also know? Are, are they having compliance checks? And what's going on over there? Are they failing for underage as well. I'm we've had a few that have. You know that they have got passed and but nothing nothing like what we're having over on the alcohol side. Like, I said, there's we have sent our underage operatives in. And it's been a while since we've had a violation. But definitely, there's a lot more to those and id checks than there is like. I said. They have to have a scanner per marijuana code. They have locked doors. I mean, it's really strict. Kristen. You're based on that. Yeah. So under marijuana code they are required to have a scanner. There is a

[14:06] restricted access setup where there's usually like a lobby where the Id is checked before they are allowed into the establishment. they marijuana businesses take that very, very seriously, and they yeah, we we don't have. I mean, I I mean, it's maybe maybe 3 a year. I mean, I'd have to look back at numbers. But yeah, it's very, very tight and very strict, and they're they're not willing to risk losing getting a violation or potentially losing their license in the in the cannabis industry. So. Kristen, and I'm wondering if there's a way for us, and this is a much larger conversation to revise our code, to make it a requirement for a scanner. There, there's a potential way to do that. It is quite a process.

[15:04] city attorney, Ramirez, would you like to make any comment as to that process, to look at something like that. Sure. one of the ways that you can do it is by making a suggestion. a formal suggestion to city council, where you articulate. What the suggested change is why, and then you do kind of a red line process of what the ordinance looks like and what you're asking it to change to then if city Council agrees with you then the process would start. You would put it on. Their agenda goes to the 1st reading process, the second reading process, and then they would vote for it. So they're off for the summer. earliest. That you would be in front of them would be at some point

[16:04] this fall. To even start that process. I don't know how the rest of the Board feels about a potential revision to our code. This is member awesome. And I I would say that this would be a large revision to the code for liquor licensees. So I I think something we should discuss further. Like you, said Member. Help honor. We'd have to, I think, discuss it further. I think the suggestion and the big suggestion, we can get Nick doing it from ir involved in education around this especially the the registered managers here and see a boulder understanding there's any doubt about someone's age and or the valid validity of their identification card that they need to get. Dpd involved. There's no, just the the idea that someone has some sort of laminated document that says that they're old enough. And that's okay by someone is unacceptable, of course. And I think there's an education component. I think Member car mentioned that. I think that's a big part of it. So if we can start sending that message out now, and I'd love to further discussion about a code change, because to Member Robert's point

[17:17] the marijuana side is just so completely stringent compared to what happens in alcohol. So I think right now education would be the the Mo. The best way, and getting the word out to people and make sure operators are clear that they are in violation, excepting people who are underage, no matter which way you slice it. So, understanding that you can't have any managers saying, Okay, they have something that says they're old enough. And that's okay. That can't be knowledge in our community. So I think Nathan do is a big resource for this. But I think that's something. That's how we can start, is my suggestion. Yeah. And this member car. And just to add on to that, I I think we should. Since you know, officer you mentioned, we can do. Compliance checks with fake ids like, whether we do that or not is really up to your team. But I think we should make licenses aware that that is something we can incorporate. We can do, and they can, you know, have their, you know, license, you know, be suspended, or anything for for those violations as well.

[18:15] I agree. Maybe we can put this as one and like end of agenda item to discuss in August. Agree. In the meantime my goal is to adjust my hours a couple of times a month and get out there and start opening up those lines of communication with the liquor establishment to kind of let them know. You know that we're back. Covid is hopefully a thing of the past, and that we will be out again. And so just kind of open up those lines. So that is my goal is to get out there in those nighttime hours when those establishments are up, and you know, running, and you know just some education and communication. Great. We appreciate that.

[19:00] Are there any other questions for officer wreck not seeing any. All right. Well, thank you, Officer. Rect, for all itch too. Thank you for that info, too. That's really important. Continuing on as agenda. Item number 3, matters from the responsible association of retailers. Mr. Nathan Dee. Kristen real quick. Did we need to read the I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna do it right after Nathan's finished. Yes. Perfect. Okay, thank you. Hey? Good afternoon. Thanks for the shout out Mike. I think this is a conversation Michael and I have had a few times actually in the past. And this is something I've even brought up to you all in the past before, as you all know, I do do the same thing with cannabis that I do with alcohol, with Rer and for me for years. This is what my 10th year doing this. I I've always said the the ramifications, the legality, all the laws.

[20:02] you know. I don't. I'm have to hold my phone to some of my car, but you know marijuana's up here. Alcohol's here. and I think there needs to be some more of alcohol being brought up, which is why I think this is a great thing to talk about today. education is gonna help, I can assure you. All in every one of my trainings, including the one I did just this afternoon. This morning I tell every single member. and I train them, and how to properly Id and I let them know some scanners don't even work that they need to have more of a scanner like Officer rec uses in the sense that. you know, most of those fake ids aren't gonna go through. I just I did just hear recently, like a couple of them, have gone through those scanners. But like 99% of them are not going through. I can also let you know. I've suggested this to Ari members in Boulder, and we do have some alcohol members who do have these scanners

[21:00] under the suggestion. This is something I always suggest to every single new member we we re-educate, and we reinform all the members that they should get one of these scanners. It is the best policy, you know, but even with the scanner you can't rely on the scanner. You need the brain. You need the book. As officer. Rec said, a lot of people aren't pulling out that book. I tell everybody you need to pull out that book. You have to be comparing them. So you need all of those things. Officer Denig and I used to do a fake id training. I think that's something, officer Rec. And I should start back up. That's a way for her to connect with the members. I will pull as many members in there as I can, so that we can go over those regulations, go over the procedures. Officer Reck can go over how she would like things done. And also reconno. I I've let people know continually that they are back out there. They're checking. They're watching. Watch out, watch out for vertical ids, but especially watch out! Watch out for the fake ids.

[22:03] So I definitely am happy to hear this. I think this is something that should be addressed. And honestly, I do think you know. Maybe we do need to enforce scanners and across Colorado quite frankly, not just boulder, because it is highly effective in the cannabis industry. They have the double checks they have to do. They have to have that scanner, and if they have, you know, a violation they really get hit with like huge amounts of money. So you know, I've always seen violations for liquor being far less than it is for the cannabis industry. So that's something maybe we could address as well during that talk. But I definitely think, and I'm more than happy to cooperate with Officer Rec. And all of you, and making sure we get that information out in any way we can, but I do assure you we already doing it with Rer, and we are happy to do more in whatever capacity we can. So

[23:00] yeah, I think that's, I think this is great. We're starting this conversation out because this is something I've been battling for personally for many years, many years. So I would love to be a part of this and help you out as far as I can on that so I'll stop there and I'll make sure I contact Officer Rec and start talking to her, and I'll also get Officer rec in contact with Officer Ripson and Fort Collins. Cause she's very knowledgeable on this, as far as the scanners go with with the retailers that she is dealing with up in Fort Collins. other than that Rer is doing well. We're still gaining members. We got 3 new members in the past month. Since I've seen you. We just had a training today, and it was at capacity. And for June that is great. In the 5 years I've done this. That's the most people I've ever had in a June session summers tend to be a little bit slower. So that's really good news that the retailers are putting in their folks into training as soon as possible to reach that 60 day mandate

[24:03] but the bigger thing that we were gonna talk about today is the responsible training and what are we gonna do? Because we've had huge issues with tips? We've had members who have had issues because we've had issues with tips. And we are. We're really wanting to put an end to that. So in the past month I have gotten certified by serve safe, which you may know was back in the past. More of alcohol and food handling. but they've developed a program of purely just alcohol. I took the program myself, and then I took the training program. So I am certified as a trainer. I have full faith in the serve save training. They do everything that tips does, and kind of a little bit more. And that is something. I'm collecting all of that information and getting all those materials together for you all, and I will send those to Kristen. So you can have those, probably by middle of next week. I'll have everything from surf safe.

[25:09] So that's the 1st thing second thing is, we are, and partners. We are going to be cooperating with abt training solutions, which is the alcohol beverage training which has been created by Patrick Maroney, and you all know him, so I don't think I need to talk too much about him. But he has a wealth of knowledge and career and wisdom in this manner. And I will be working with him the second week of July to watch him train, and then he will be training me to perform his trainings. So if it's not already accepted by the bla Patrick and I will make sure to get all that stuff together and get you all the information you need to take a look and see if you might accept that. because quite honestly moving forward. I would like to make tips our 3rd and last option, or by request, option.

[26:09] and the reason for that is many. mainly is just not being able to get the certificates in time. It literally took me 3 weeks, and I had to go up and up and up and up into the Tips organization to get these certificates to even get my assistant. Her her access after she passed her recertification as a trainer. She they they just lost access. They lost my certificate that I got for my retraining. So it's just really gone downhill as an organization. and the training is fine and it's still solid. Of course, nothing's changed. And in fact, they've actually added a call. Colorado supplementary part to it, which is nice. But I know both surf safe and and abt will do that as well. So for me. the trouble with them

[27:01] is not worth losing members over, or having issues with members with something that's out of my hands. But we will still offer it until you all decide that it's okay to do the other trainings? And then, once that's been verified, then we will kind of put tips back there by request. If someone wants tips, no problem. Mandy and myself will be trained to do it. But we also we're gonna offer the Abt training and the surf save trainings which honestly, actually kind of helps us to build a bigger membership because there are now retailers who will not take tips. They've moved on to you all know John Valley. They've moved on to John's program. He's with, serve safe. So I just think, moving forward. And I believe you guys accept, serve safe. But moving forward. I would also like to include Abt in this. Because it's a it's a solid training. And I mean again, Patrick is.

[28:02] You know I've worked with him off and on through the years, and gotten knowledge from him. And I think it's just a great resource for Rer and for Boulder and for the members at large, and that's maybe something we could pull him in if he's interested. I'm just coming up with an idea now to do the fake training with officer. Rec. And I, you know, really just come at the community with as much force as we can on that issue. So really, after the month that since I've seen you, I've gotten trained, I'm ready to get trained to the next one, and I figured out that tips is really not probably the best option for us or older, and the retailers moving forward. But again we will offer it, and I'm happy to offer it, and to remain being trained in it. And actually. And I've gone through my executive Director Heather Bestgard, who happens to be here watching us today, cause she wants to see what we all do and how we do it. So she also is okay with us moving forward with this. And I just really think it's a good idea that

[29:06] that we open up options to retailers who now have a really bad taste for tips in their mouth. Including myself on some levels. But like today, we did the training, and it was fine, and and the other thing about tips that is really hard for us as a nonprofit is, they've increased their prices on manuals by a hundred 10% manuals were $16, and we 16. And then they got to 20. And now they're $42 for a manual with a scantron cause. They're trying to push this digital voucher thing where I would go in and train. and then I give the trainees a digital voucher that they then go home and take the test at home. I don't like that, because then you can cheat, or you can misunderstand things, and I think it's just a better resource, since you all want them to have in-class trainers that they are with me. When they're taking the test. One they won't cheat, and 2, if they do have questions we can answer those questions and we can get them the right answers.

[30:12] I guess, just moving forward. I just want your thoughts on. If you're okay, that we offer 3 trainings and again, like I said, I will get you all the surf safe training material so you can look it over. I'm sure Patrick will be happy to share all of his Abt trainings, so you can look it over. And I'm really feeling positive, moving forward with all 3 trainings. and other than that. that's all I I believe I have for today. Great. Thank you, Mr. Dewey. There any questions for Mr. Dewey? Yeah, we'll definitely consider the 3 trainings. have further discussion on that in the future. Great. Oh, one more thing. Next month.

[31:00] or is it July? Oh, no, not July. But I'm just gonna let you know, and in August I will be gone. I just got tickets in the past month to go to Poland, to go visit some friends and stuff and family cause. I used to live there. So if I'm not here, August, that's why. Great. Thank you for the heads up and thank you again. Yeah. Thanks. Prior to moving on to the general public comment and application portion of today's hearing. I would like to read the public participation slides for everyone. I apologize. I was unable to get my Powerpoint up. So one moment, please.

[32:00] it's still not wanting to let me show one moment. Alright! Is everybody to? It's apologies. Item, I'm having some difficulty with sharing But let me see what I can do. I can see it on my screen. Yeah. The the problem is, is it, when it's blanking out everything else? So even though I know it. I can't read it because it's covering, and I've and I've got 3 monitors up, and it's blanking out all of my black. It's blanking everything out for me. One moment. is it? Still showing up.

[33:02] Yes. Perfect. Thank you. Apologies for the disruption, public participation of beverage, licensing authority board hearings. The city has engaged with community members to co-create a vision for productive, meaningful, and inclusive civic conversation. This vision supports physical and emotional safety for community members, staff and board and commission members as well as democracy. For people of all ages, identities lived experiences and political perspectives. More about this vision and the project's community engagement process can be found on the link on your screen. The following are examples of rules of decorum found in the Boulder revised Code, and other guidelines that support this vision. These will be upheld during this meeting all remarks and testimony shall be limited to matters related to city business. No participant shall make threats or use other forms of intimidation against any person. Obscenity, racial epithets, and other speech and behavior that disrupts or otherwise impedes the ability to conduct. The meetings are prohibited.

[34:08] participants are required to sign up to speak, using the name they are commonly known by, and individuals must display their whole name before being allowed to speak. The question and answer function is only to be used for technical questions for staff, and is not used for public comment or communications. Alright. thank you. And I apologize for the technical difficulties moving on. We have agenda. Item number 4, general public comment. This is for comment on items, not on the agenda today for participants wishing to participate in general public comment.

[35:01] You could please raise your hand. You can use you the raise your hand by following it under under the reactions. If you're on the phone. If you could. Please just let us know by unmuting yourself or being requested to be unmuted. Please. do we have anyone for general public comment today. chair Caulfino, I'm seeing no one for general public comment. Not seeing anyone think we're good to move on. Perfect. Thank you. Continuing to agenda. Item number 5, Penco Corporation doing businesses. Chicken on the hill, 1 1 1 9 13th Street, boulder, Colorado, 8 0 3, 0 2 for monthly status. Report to the bla.

[36:08] and we're trying to get him into the chat. One moment. Hello! Perfect. Kristen. are all the reports in good. Yes, yes, they were. He is in good standing, with both occupation tax and sales. Tax. Perfect. Thank you so much, Mr. Lou, and keep it up. Thank you, sir. Thank you. Guys.

[37:02] All right, continuing on to agenda. Item number 6, show cause hearing concerning an alleged violation, and whether the fermented malt beverage and wine retailer. Off-premises-type liquor license held by pars, gas and Food Incorporated doing business as buffalo gas, 5,500 Arapaho Avenue boulder, Colorado, 8 0 3 0 3. Should be suspended or revoked. If you're here for this item, please write. Oh, perfect! Thank you.

[38:12] Everybody! Good afternoon before we begin. I'd like to get you sworn in. Would you please raise your right hand and repeat after me? I. Aye. State, your name. Josephine Corduny. Do you solemnly swear a firm. But do so many swear firm. That the testimony you are about to give. At the testimony that I'm about to give. Before the beverage. Licensing authority. For the beverage, licensing authority. Is true and correct. It's true, and pray. Yes, thank you. They would like to let members of the Board know that we have reached a stipulation in this case, and I would move for the Board to accept that stipulation. At this time.

[39:03] Great. Thank you for that. Does. Is there any motions to accept. member? Califano would move to accept the stipulation, as is. Remember, as one would second that motion. All in favor. Say, aye, member Califano, I. Remember Absalom. Member car. I. Member Roberts. Aye. Number Haggerty! Hi! Forget we have a 5th member. Now, this is this is different. Okay, great Mr. Cordooni. Since you are not represented by counsel. I'm gonna go ahead and read the proceedings into the record. This is a public hearing before the beverage licensing authority of the city of Boulder to determine whether or not the license of pars, gas and food Inc. Doing business as buffalo gas, with a fermented malt beverage and wine retailer off premise type. Liquor license

[40:03] shall be suspended or revoked on the basis of the violations alleged in the order to show cause served upon the licensee, and requiring the licensees presence here today, because this is a disciplinary proceeding, the authorities shall not ask for or allow comment from members of the general public on the guilt of the licensee or the appropriate discipline to be imposed. The purpose of this hearing is to receive testimony presented by the city and by the licensee, in order to enable this authority to make findings, and to determine any by a preponderance of the evidence, whether or not the licensee has violated the various laws, as alleged. If, in the course of the hearing, testimony, or other evidence establishes the guilt of the licensee, a violation of some other law rule or regulation than those stated in the notice. The licensee shall be afforded a reasonable continuance upon any offer that evidence in defense, explanation, and mitigation is not then available to the licensee, but can be obtained within the period of a continuance not to exceed 10 days.

[41:03] A record is being made of these proceedings. All testimonies shall be given under oath. The rules of evidence and requirement of proof and procedure shall confirm to the extent practicable to those in civil non-jury cases, but when necessary to ascertain facts affecting the substantial rights of the public or of the licensee, the authority may receive and consider evidence not admissible under such rules. If such evidence possesses a probative value commonly accepted by reasonable and prudent persons in the conduct of their affairs, the rules of privilege required by law shall be respected in this proceeding, and the chair may exclude incompetent and unduly repetitious evidence. The chair shall rule upon all questions of evidence and procedure subject to being overruled on motions sustained by a majority vote of those members of the authority present. Should a licensee wish to request. Oh, excuse me. should a licensee wish to request to find, in lieu of active suspension dates, they should notify the authority of this after a penalty is determined, if any. But before suspension posting is discussed, and the licensee

[42:12] should be prepared to supply an estimate per day suspension dollar amount for the authorities, deliberations, those who desire to be heard shall identify themselves by stating their name, spelling their name and stating their pertinent address. They shall be sworn in by the Board Secretary, so any ex parte communication or conflict for of interest from the Board, member Califano, no. Number Aslam. No. Member card, no. Remember Roberts, no remember, hey? Edgar, do you know. Mr. Cordoni, you may proceed. Thanks for having me I take full responsibility for what happened. I don't know. I guess you guys all got the packet that I sent

[43:05] It was a mistake that my cashier made I'm not proud of it. I never thought it would happen. But she made a mistake of being overwhelmed. Then Cash register should got a call from her son. and she, her friend, was visiting her at the time, and When this thing happened she made a mistake. I take full responsibility. I know it's very serious matter. One of the things that we're doing differently now is making sure that all the employees take their job seriously. One of the problems that happened is. I think, some of the employees just don't take their job seriously, which is a problem. someone now calls is a big deal

[44:01] and soap. One of the things that I'm doing differently now is, instead of doing every 2 years worth of training. I'm just gonna do it every year. Make sure everybody does the training of the year just as a reminder to for them to know. Hey, we, this is serious. We just can't alright keep on just doing what what we're doing this way. The other thing that we're doing different things that we're scanning ids now. I've included in the packets that actual process that goes into it. I know before this whole thing started. There was a little bit of talk about scanners. I think if there was some specific programs for scanners, specific machines that is approved by the city or state. And that's a great idea.

[45:03] the scanner that I'm using now is part of the pos system. So it does tell me if the id is expired. but it doesn't tell me if the idea's fake or not life. the other thing is there's no way for the cashier to override that system. So in order for a sale to occur is the Id must be scanned. or a date must be inputed. So an Id has to be present and checked visibly, physically. Before this whole thing before the sale is phone through. I don't know. I'm open to any ideas to try and mitigate. But I am taking it very seriously.

[46:01] I don't know what else I could do. I'm I'm open to ideas, too. to stop this from ever happening. Great. Thank you for that. There. Any questions from the board. What I would say is, have a fake id book ready with you at the cash register. Did you say your scanner won't make the sale if they're under age. It will not. No, it will not make it will, it will prompt and say that it's this id is under 21, and it will cancel the sale, so they will have to present a different id, within which case Sale would not go through. I do have a id checking guide. I forgot to include it in the packet, but I can show you a picture of it. But I just had the. I don't know if you guys can see it on my phone. But this is next to the register. We this is, you know, we keep this by the register, too. to make sure we do check ids

[47:04] make sure it's their id that they're presenting and make sure it's a legitimate idea as best as we can. It says it's kind of hard to tell, because a lot of people that present ids have ids that are from out of country. So you know, how do we go about dealing with that? the software doesn't scan out of the country. Ids. So you know, that's another issue. But I'm I'm open to any ideas that the board has for me too. Tighten up and and goals. This is never excellent. If it's okay. If I ask question, scrami. Did you say that the you did not have the scanner in place during a time fraction correct.

[48:00] So there was no, we did not. There was a scan. Was implemented afterwards. Yeah. Yes, there wasn't in place. But the the pos software that we run has a default button. Where when you scan and an item that requires an id. It prompts you for that id. If one of the things you can do is you can press a default button and override it. You can continue there. Well, I've gone in, and I've taken that out, so there's no way that they it can be overwritten by by the cashier. so there's no laziness on their part that they can kind of, you know. Jump over. So just answer your question. I sorry to interrupt you there, if you have something else to say. Your question about what to do with the out of anything of you know, an out of country Id. I think you're listening earlier. We're saying, you know. you can just get boulder police department involved. That should be the training, right? So if you're confused about how to deal with any sort of id that you're not sure of

[49:06] you contact, you can hold a person right there and say, Hey, if you want to continue this sale. go ahead and we'll get. Have a police officer come and verify your identification. And I would say, that is the big thing. And the second thing is you heard Nathan, do you from? We're trying to continue with education in our community around our call service being involved with that organization would be very important. For your business and and your your licensee. I would say other than that. I wanna say that you know people make mistakes all the time, but keep up on the training and keep up on everything you get from our community. Cordini Cordini, are you member of the Rar. I am not. No. So Mr. Dewey, who was speaking earlier. Heads that up and that's a really good organization for you to be part of, and they have a lot of tips and trainings and best practices.

[50:03] Sure. How would I sign up for that? Is that is it the company that I would just look up? R. I believe we can send him that information right? Kristen. Yeah, thank you. Alright anything else from any of the other board members. Alright, Mr. Cordrone! Eric Cordrunni! Is there any other information, or anything else you'd like to present to us. No, I I I am doing everything I can to make sure this doesn't happen again, because I obviously don't want to be here, not no offense to anybody here. You know this is a big concern to me as well. I am. I am taking it very seriously. Great. Thank you. So at this time we will close for deliberation. Is there a motion? Personally, Member Califano? I I don't see

[51:02] really that there any aggravating factors? Think it's kind of a wash. and so I would make a motion for table value, which I believe is 5 days served, and 9 days held in advance. I I agree. Aggravating factors. And I think Mr. Courtney has done some mitigating factors since this has happened and put these into you know, after the after the effect. Okay. But so I would. I would agree with you. And I would second second table values. So motion is table value of 5 days served with 9 days held in advance, all in favor, say, aye, member Califano. Aye. Remember absolutely not. Number car. I. Number Roberts. Aye. Member Haggerty, Guy.

[52:02] Alright, so you will have to not sell alcohol for 5 days and 9 of those days, or in addition, 9 days will be held in advance. So should you get another violation within a year there would be an additional sentencing for what we determine, and you would have to serve those 9 days as well. And then at this point we need to determine those dates. Kristen, are you good with Monday? Yes, I'm able to prepare the suspension posters for pickup. Perfect, so that will start on Monday. Thank you so much, Mr. Cordoni. Thank you. Guys very much. Okay. moving on to agenda. Item number 7, show cause hearing concerning an alleged violation, and whether the hotel and restaurant-type liquor license held by my neighbor Felix

[53:12] for corporation, doing business as my neighbor Felix. 901 Pearl Street unit 101 boulder, Colorado, 8 0 3 0 2 should be suspended or revoked. If you are here for this item, please raise your hand and we will admit you. Okay, I have Savannah, but no last name. Mistakes. I don't know if my camera can turn on. I tried turning it on.

[54:04] Please try turning it on. There we go. We also have a Savannah Hyde as well, and I see her there, but I don't see her face. She does have the ability to turn on her camera from my end is what I'm seeing. Thank you. Sorry it didn't let me@firstst Okay. So we have reached a stipulation in this matter as well. So I would move for members of the Board to accept that stipulation at this time. Is there a motion from the Board to accept said stipulation. Member not to make a motion to accept the stipulation

[55:03] memorial site. That motion. All in favor. Say, aye, member, I here. My brass, and I. Member car. I. Remember, Roberts, I. Member Haggerty. I. All right. Mr. Stapen, are you recording your appearance? Yes, please, thank you. Good afternoon, everybody. My name is Adam Stapen, STAP. N. I'm an attorney here in the State of Colorado. My registration numbers 2, 7, 5, 0 6. Also with me on your screen is Savannah Hyde, and she's the operations manager for the licensee pending before you today. I can get you sworn in Savannah, Savannah. Can you state your name? Spell your last name? Give your address, please.

[56:02] Yeah. Savannah Hyde. My last name is spelled HYDE. Your address, please. My home address is 3, 5, 5, 0 West 38th Avenue, Denver, Colorado, 8 0. 2 0. 1. You please. Thank you. Would you please raise your right hand and repeat after me? Aye, state your name. I Sedanah Hyde. Do you solemnly swear a firm. Do solemnly swear in a firm. That the testimony you are about to give. That the testimony I'm about to give. Before the beverage. Licensing authority. Before the beverage. Licensing authority. It's true and correct. Is true and correct. Thank you. Great. And, Mister Stepan, since you're representing his council, I'd ask if you'd be willing to waive the reading of the procedures into the record. We are. Thank you for asking. Great, and is there any ex parte communication or conflict of interest from any of the board members for this agenda? Item, Member Califano? No.

[57:01] Remember Absalom, no. Nugar car, no. Member Roberts, No. Member Hacker. Do you know. Great Mr. Stapen, you may proceed. Thank you very much. At the outset I'd like to apologize. Obviously the licensee did not intend to sell alcohol to a minor, and it's not been a pattern or practice of this Licensee at this Location or other Locations in which it operates to sell Alcohol to a minor. This licensee is owned by Francois Apadian. I represented Francois for many, many, many, many years he's been in the hospitality industry for many, many, many years. He understands the seriousness, the seriousness of selling alcohol to a minor or to intoxicated individual. Obviously we worked with Miss Keller, and we accept full responsibility for the actions of our employee. At that time. We did submit the mitigation packet to you, and I think because of the experience that Mr. Zapanine has, you could see

[58:01] he's built internal policies and procedures. He has internal training. He uses the external tips training. We have a patron scan that we're required to use as a result of this failure. Everyone has been retrained to use the scandal machine again. and then we'll be going through training again. I believe, tomorrow, June 27, th and the employee who committed the act that violated our policies and procedures, and the laws of the State of Colorado, and the ordinances of the boulder was fired. and we take this extremely seriously, and I want to reiterate everything that's within the mitigation package. I suspect you folks have had an opportunity to review that. But we are here to answer any questions you have. I do believe, based on my experience. I do believe that this does require some deviation from the standard. and the reason why I say that is, I think we should

[59:01] recognize licensees who do go above and beyond. and do have extensive internal policies and procedures do have internal training also have external training also have scanners. and then also the track record of being a good corporate citizen, not only within boulder. But within the State of Colorado and the hospitality world therein. I think there should be some recognition of the longevity and the work and effort that is put into this rather than looking at it as a table value just because of violation of curve. So I would ask that you folks, when analyzing this after you ask any questions of myself or Miss I, who is the operations manager, consider that, and part of the consideration. I know it may be premature, but would be whether or not you would accept a petition for payment in lieu of active suspension about how to make payment of a fine. But we're here to answer any questions, I can tell you. Mr. Satan and his organization takes extremely seriously. I think he's been in the hospitality world for at least 30, if not 40 years.

[60:11] This is something that he takes the heart, which is why Miss Highness here the operations manager involved in this conduct. collecting the conduct, ensuring the retraining, and here to take full responsibility for the actions of truthfully our weakest employee at his or her weakest time. I'm on the. I can keep talking for hours, as you feel snow as well. I will leave it at that, and if you have any questions of either myself or Miss Hide. Please feel free to ask. Thank you, Mr. Stephen. I do have a quick question. So your your training manure for Savannah excuse me. Your training manual is very extensive. It's very thorough what what happened here, I mean, it just seems like

[61:01] what it appears, and we've read the affidavit. So we We we saw what happened. But just curious with that employee. Do we have any idea? It almost seems as though they just got really really comfortable. Yeah, I don't even know if it was comfortable. Honestly, it was probably one of the hardest times I, personally had fired an employee because he was genuinely a great employee. Oz had worked with us for a long time. If you were to watch the camera footage, you actually see him iding an older gentleman that to me looked over the age of 40 that I probably wouldn't have ided And you see him iding that person. You then see him directly after going to a couple that he ids both of them before serving them, and the woman in that couple had gray hair. I. Directly after that he went over and served the 2 underage minors. I so I don't know that it was being comfortable. I think it was

[62:01] a really horrible, horrible mistake, and I know that he, you know, is very devastated about it. It was a very upsetting thing for him. He feels like he let himself and the company down, and of course it's an upsetting thing for us as a business as well. I was born in Boulder. I'm from Boulder, and I've worked as a bartender and a server in boulder for many years before I went on to do what I'm doing, and I also take it very seriously, and it's something Boulder is more impressive with than any other city that I've been in, because it is such a serious thing, and you know, like leak does right. There's stings, and people are out, and people do look for it. And you know with that our team at Felix we are so incredibly serious with the training. We really. we talk about it every single day because I've been in it, and because they've been in it, and they live in Boulder, and they know that. And so I don't think there's any excuse. It

[63:00] was really the oddest thing watching the camera footage because he was iding. I did again. And then just didn't it? It really was so odd! And I wish I had a better answer, because it was just a horrible, horrible slip up. Great. Thank you. Appreciate your honesty. Are there any other questions from any of the other board members not seeing any. Mr. Steven, did you have anything you'd like to add as conclusion. Not at this time. Thank you very much. Appreciate your time and again. Sorry to waste your time on this matters. Great. We will close for deliberation at this point. Is there emotion? Member Califano would move to make a motion to lower the standard table value. Given the preponderance of evidence

[64:00] in their mitigating packet. I would make a motion for 3 days, served with 12 days held in advance. I also see that they have a very extensive mitigation packet. and it sounds to me like they have. I mean, I don't know if I've ever seen an operations manual. That was this comprehensive. So I I do think it was. Seems like it was just a accident, and I would second the the motion or reduced table values. Just for clarification. You would second. The 3 days served with 12, held it in advance. Correct. Great. So we have a 1st motion, a second motion, all in favor. Say, aye, member Califano, I. Never asked them. I. Number car. I.

[65:00] Member. Robert's eye. Member Hackerty, I. Great, and as far as dates served, Kristen, are we able to get that for this upcoming Monday. Certainly. May I respond to that real quick. or am I. You can, but the motion's been made and passed so. No, no, I understand the days, I guess. I guess the picking of the days. the 3 days, obviously next week is a holiday week. I believe it's the 4th of July week, and that's very important for businesses such as Mr. Saffaden's. And would you proven he takes this very seriously if you are going to impose a three-day suspension rather than potentially allowing a fine in lieu of the 3, I would ask that we be considerate of the holiday week. Given the testimony you've heard, and evidence that you have before. What would your suggestion be? Miss Hyde with the following.

[66:00] so the following Monday be better rather than next Monday. But the Monday after. I would greatly appreciate it. It's not easy staying in business in Boulder, unfortunately, with restaurants anymore, so I would greatly appreciate it. But I understand. If that is not an option, we're the ones with the mistake, not you. So. How does the rest of the board feel about entertaining this date change. This is member cost member I I would I I would support that that change. I think it's reasonable, reasonable. Ask. I I say, I, second member cars sentiment with all the mitigation. I think that's a reasonable. Great Kristen. We're good to change it to the following Monday. Correct. That would be Monday. June 8.th Due to the holiday, however, I will be preparing the posters to be picked up on Friday and and held onto and then posted with proof of posting emailed by way of photograph.

[67:06] Per the instructions for Monday, the 8.th Roberto, do we need a motion or a vote for that? You. You do But I wanted to clarify something, because everything is on the record person. You said June, and I think you meant July. I do apologize. Yes, July. I'm still managing technical difficulties here on my end. So quick row would be appropriate. Great. So we have a 1st and a second to move it to. Monday. July. What was that? Again? 8, th July. All in favor. Say I, member Califano, I. Member Aslam, a. Member Roberts, I. Member Haggerty. I.

[68:04] We lost Number 5 for a second there. While we're waiting for him to reappear. Can I get a a double check on the motion? And the second. Oh, I have. Are an epsilon. Member, card. At. Function member. Absalom. Seconded. Thank you. Remember, Car, are you able to hear us. Apologies. I had to step away for a moment. So we we voted on the the motion to move the date to July 8.th

[69:00] Member car in favor. Sorry about that. And my vote record shows that vote is unanimous to start on July July 8.th Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you. Kane. continuing on to agenda. Item number 8. Public hearing and consideration of an application filed on April 3, rd 2024 from Pedro's of Boulder, Llc. Doing business as Pedro's Tacos and Tequila Bar 1, 1, 2, 5, Pearl Street. Boulder, Colorado, 8, 0 3, 0 2. Armando Sagura, 100 owner and registered manager with a premises, business mailing address for a new hotel and restaurant type, liquor license.

[70:10] one moment while we promote. And is there anyone else for this item. Thank you, Mr. Maroney. One moment.

[71:05] Thank you. Flat chair call Funnel. I'll just go ahead and get him sworn in. Can you please say your name, state your name, and spell your last name for me. Please. Armando. also get him a RMAN, DO osakera, OSEG UERA. And your address. Please. As 1 39. Listen, reach, drive. bell, change. Louisiana, 7, 0 0 3, 7. Perfect. Thank you. And can you raise your right hand and repeat after me?

[72:05] I state your name. That's the unique. I'm Armando. Do solemnly swear or affirm. Swear well, 13 bushes I can. Do you need me to repeat? Please. Do solemnly swear or affirm. So I don't know. That's why I think. Can I repeat what you say to him? Cause he's having hearing problems right now. Oh, absolutely. I wasn't aware. An interpreter would be helpful. I apologize. And what is your name, sir? I'm his son. Nicholas Osagar. Same last name. All right. Thank you. Nicholas. Is that acceptable to the authority perfect? All right. Okay, let's start over. I state your name.

[73:04] I'm Armando osea. Do solemnly swear or affirm. So I'm swear or firm. You solemnly swear I saw him off, I swear. Yes, I think you can. He talk for me? Please. Mr. Seago. Nicholas, do you have any ownership? I don't believe you have any ownership percentage correct. I'm the general manager. Would that be okay as well, even if I'm not on there. Can you give me? Just one moment. Yes, yes, that's no problem.

[74:06] So quick question. Follow up, Nicholas. Would you be just the being, the one giving the testimony, then the only one giving testimony? Then. Yeah, I guess if he's he, if he can't do it. Right, because whoever's going to be speaking has to be sworn in. Oats. Okay, okay. you can do at least. Okay, so who's ever going to be sworn in and provide the testimony for today? Can you please raise your right hand and repeat after me. yeah, I. I. Update your name perfect. Thank you. Do solemnly swear or affirm. Do you solemnly swear or affirm. That the testimony I am about to give. That's a testimony I'm about to give. The beverage, licensing authority. The bever beverage, licensing authority.

[75:02] Is true and correct. Is true and correct. Perfect, so that will allow you to be the one that provides testimony today. Armando, if you would like to to provide any kind of testimony you will need to be sworn in. Think. And I also see that we have Mr. Maroney with alcohol petitioning with us today. Mr. Ronnie, would you please state your name, spell your last name. Give your address for me, please. Patrick Maroni, MAR. ONEY. Business. Address of Po. Box 998, Johnstown, Colorado, 805, 3, 4. Perfect. Can you raise your right hand and repeat after me? I state your name. Hi, Patrick Moroni. Do solemnly swear or affirm. You saw me swear in a firm. That the testimony I'm about to give. The testimony I'm about to give. The beverage, licensing authority. To the beverage. Licensing authority. Is true and correct. It's true and correct.

[76:00] Perfect. Will there be anyone else for this matter? Not seeing any. Thank you. Alright great! And Nicholas, since you're not represented by council, I'm gonna go ahead and read the proceedings into the record. Okay. This is a public hearing before the beverage licensing authority of the city of Boulder to determine whether or not the application of Pedro's of Boulder, Llc. Doing business as Pedro's Tacos and Tequila bar for a new hotel or restaurant and hotel liquor type, liquor license shall be granted or denied. This hearing is conducted pursuant to the laws of the State of Colorado, and the rules of the beverage. Licensing authority of the city of Boulder. The purpose of this hearing is to receive information, data, and testimony by interested parties, in order to enable this authority to make the findings, and to reach the conclusions required to be made by State law as to whether or not the license applied for shall issue. Interested parties are the applicant residents of the neighborhood under consideration, and the owners and managers of a business located in the neighborhood under consideration

[77:08] for purposes of determining who is an interested party. At this hearing the neighborhood under consideration is the neighborhood previously defined by the authority. the authority shall make a final determination of the affected neighborhood prior to determining whether the license shall be issued. Any interested party may speak to the question of neighborhood designation, as well as other information relevant to the granting or denial of the application. A record is being made of these proceedings. Those who desire to be heard shall identify themselves by stating their name. spelling their last name, and stating their pertinent address, they shall also be sworn in by the board. Secretary. Is there any ex parte or con communication or conflict of interest from any of the Board members. Remember California? No. Number, Absalom, no. Network, car no.

[78:00] Member Roberts, No. Member Hagerty, no. And is there anyone in the audience that wishes to speak to this agenda? Item, if you could please raise your hand? I am not seeing any. All right, Nicholas. You may proceed. This is where you kind of talk about what you're planning on doing. Your policies, trainings, everything like that. Okay, yeah. So of course, we're signing up for our like a license, we in terms of the training all of our servers. Bartenders are required to have their alcohol beverage training certificates before they even touch or even serve alcohol at any point. We are in the process of getting a scanner for ids. We do have our id id booklet the 2024 edition

[79:04] and then. as far as you got anything. yeah, I mean as far as anything else. If they if you know, obviously, if somebody like 40 years old, you can tell Nino to. they can. They would still have to check it. Just to make sure, like we're not serving anybody in a range, you know. You will see somebody with like you don't look 21. We can even call the police to come and check their ids to make sure. You know, before serving anything. But yeah. we're here to answer any questions that you might guys, you guys have.

[80:00] Thank you for that. There. Any questions from the board. This is number absolutely speaking. I'm just looking at your application here, and you have a seating capacity of 200 people, and I'm looking at the staffing of 6 part time and 4 full time employees. Yeah, it's all right. Sorry. Go ahead. Oh, no! I was just wondering how you how are you gonna manage that? Many people when it comes to responsible alcohol service with that many employees. We have that many employees at the moment because of. We're not selling that much. But once we get the license and everything we are looking to expand to a lot a lot more. It's just right now trying to. But the payroll and everything at the moment. But again, once we get the license. It's gonna be a lot more where we plan to hire a lot more people part time and full time. So the location you have is right on Pearl Street. It's in the old West Flanders location, I believe, right across from Pearl Street. Pub. That is a large, large

[81:04] facility to manage. I do have some concerns around staffing and security at this point, and you said, once you get the license, you will staff it up. Do you have any sort of plans for security, or managing that amount of people on the premises? We. We look to get more managers on board right now. It's just me and him, because again we are very small at the moment. But once we get the license we look to hire, you know. Kitchen more kitchen, a kitchen manager, bar manager another front of house manager. Just so we can. be be sure that you know again that we aren't selling to minors, that everything's going smoothly. Everybody's checking all that. I have no other questions right now, at least for the rest of the Board members.

[82:06] There any other questions from the Board members? Leah, did you have something. I was wondering, Nicholas, if you could tell us a little bit about your past experience in the industry, and with handling alcohol beverages. Well, we come from like New Orleans. So everybody knows New Orleans, even down there. They're very strict. a even like down there. It's the same thing. We always check everybody's id. Tourists, anybody! we always had. We always, if they have even a little bit of inkling that it may be fake. even if they check the book. If it's still there. We do still call the Nlp. And stayed here. We would call Boulder police department just to come out. Make sure like, Hey.

[83:07] is this legit? Is this fake? They say, Yes, okay, we'll proceed. But if not. you know, obviously we'll give it anything of these to the police so they can handle it. same thing. I mean, we've he's had a like a license. We've never had a problem with the licensing. We've never had a problem with any Agc. In New Orleans. No matter. The restaurant we do take selling apple very seriously. So do you run other establishments down in New Orleans? Yes, Ben. yeah, we have a few stops over there, and like, I like, he say, we always make sure everybody have a real Id. because we don't like to get in trouble with no ones. We don't want anything happens in the restaurant.

[84:02] We check everybody's id, especially like our town Ids. We have the book to check. If he is real or not. If we feel it's not real, we just call the police to check if he is real or not. And yeah, we have a lot of experience in all of restaurants as well, you know, checking. Make sure that everybody accepted real lady. I have a quick question. Who do you plan to? Id. Alright, basically everyone. Everyone is the manager that I look all or not. Everybody have. If somebody come in the bar is asked for a beer. Even you don't mind if it looks 50 60. We have the check Id. and we have to make sure the bartender servers

[85:00] check that. Everybody's id. Great. Thank you. Roberto. Yeah, just wanna remind everyone that you can only consider evidence testimony from an individual who has been sworn in So if if the gentleman is going to be testifying and you are going to be considering it, he does need to be sworn in. Okay, I got you. Yeah. So if all other testimony could come from you, Nicholas, that would be great. Okay, I got you. So, Nicholas? I had a question, too. When are when are you planning? On opening. We're open right now, like a soft opening. But we sell strictly. Only food no, nothing else. Just food, water. And so that's it. So if you. if you were granted this license, you would start serving in a call once you were granted it.

[86:03] Say against him. If you were to be granted this license, would you start serving alcohol immediately? Once you were granted the license. Would you start? Serving. We would have to get with our, you know. Of course, we would have to get our beer liquor companies. We don't have anything right now we would obviously have to wait for them. Once we get the license and everything talk to them, you know. Make orders, and then from there we would set up a date to fully open. Any other questions? And are all of your current employees, tip, certified, trained. Yes. Alcohol service. Yes, all of them are fits trained. We've got one he's working on right now, and he's about to get it. And then from there everybody's coming. and then any future employees obviously would have to be tips trained immediately.

[87:05] So in the municipality of boulder we require servers or any service of alcohol. Anyone that's going to be serving alcohol to be tip certified. Yeah, certain. Within 60 days of hire. Yeah. Alright! Is there any other questions? Not necessarily a question, but more of a comment. Well, maybe a question. But we've talked a little bit about the Ra. Today. Responsible association retailers. Have you talked with Nathan Dewey, or that organization yet? No, sir, we didn't even we didn't know about it. We would like to be a part of it if you, if you were able to email it to us. and we could do it. But we could sign up and do everything. Yeah, highly recommend. You join. That especially is, you know, a new new business opening up in town. They can talk a lot about, you know, issues you might encounter and and how to overcome those. When it comes out, call service.

[88:05] Yeah, so definitely, if you could email to us, we'll do it. Thank you. Indicated. In addition, I would want to stress that you are in a pretty high risk area. I think that you saw from one of the previous agenda items, who is just down the street from you that you know the fakes were being used and they failed. You're not fakes. I'm sorry they failed. A compliance check. So I would just say that. You know they're out there. So Yes. Think you guys are taking this seriously. But yeah, just something to consider when serving individuals. You're right there on the center of the Mall. So. Right? Right? Yeah. We trust, man, we plan to take it very seriously again. A, we just plan to id everybody. We don't want to take any chances again, any inkling. We would let the police know.

[89:02] Great, and so are there any other questions from the Board members? Mr. Ramirez. Yeah, I just wanted to make sure. When you're referring to the tips training. You also mean any state approved program? Right? Yes, I I caught myself after I said that. Yeah, they can any approved training from the city of Boulder. We have, we allow. Yeah. So we can provide you with a list from the state of State, approved trainers, because you need to use someone that's approved by the State liquor enforcement divisions. Yes, ma'am. I just have one more question for Nicholas, he said. You guys are open currently right now. So what are you doing? Average on a day in terms of how many guests, how many? You know guests are coming in per day with that staff that you have.

[90:04] Well, without without alcohol. It's a lot less than we we're anticipating. I would say we would get like maybe 50 guests or so on a slow day. Busy day. maybe around like 70 or so. 70 80 yes. Okay, I have another question. Alright, Mr. Maroni, did you have anything you wanted to present. I'll be glad to so thank you, Vla, for having me here today. So I'm Patrick Moroney, president of alcohol petitioning services. We were hired to do a neighborhood survey for Pedro's of Boulder, Llc. Doing businesses. Pedro's Taco Tequila Bar.

[91:01] Although located at 1125 Pearl Street, in in boulder. so a little bit about our technique. You know our methodology of our company. All of our circulators are 21 years or older, and they have alcohol petition services. polo shirts like I'm wearing today along with name tags and parallel. They know who we are when we approach each person. So each person that was doing circulating had a map of the area provided by the city of Boulder. They had a petition for that people could sign in favor or opposition for the issuance of the license this license. They had a list of other hotel and liquor licenses Hr. Restaurant licenses in the neighborhood. and then a tally sheet of when people did not want to participate. people were shown the form asked to read the form, and we're verbally told to the license type being applied for the location each person assigned the form indicated. There were 21 years or older. and we, either a resident or a manager or business owner within the designated area that were provided. Each signature was freely provided and given to the circulators without any influence. We are a non-biased company. We don't provide results as far as the outcome is, we just tally the information.

[92:14] We did circulation with 3 employees on Thursday, June 6.th Initial tally was 119 signatures obtained 44 from businesses, 75 from residences. and actually all of more in favor 100. And we did not have anybody that opposed this license. So we've seen 119 signatures. We also went to 189 homes that no one answered the door. 35 people that we did talk to. We're not wanting to participate. One of the businesses was closed or vacant, and 7 of the businesses did not have an owner or manager available. So we went to a total of 351 locations of the 35 people that were not willing to participate. 25 do not have an opinion. 6 people were too busy, and 4 were interested in participating.

[93:04] We had a 33.9% turnout when it came to how? How often you got a signature when we approached a business or residence that was actually higher than normal. it's usually about 20. So that was good, and the 77.3 rate of when people that we were able to talk to that were eligible to sign the did sign. So it's pretty, that's pretty average. There was one signature we didn't disqualify because they did not indicate whether they were an owner or manager. They just that indicate that. So we really could not count that in that. So we still haven't had a hundred, 118 like people say yes, approved this License. So therefore, I think the final analysis shows a definite favorable from the needed desires of this neighborhood with everybody saying they really support this business to obtain a hotel and restaurant liquor license. So I would. I would give that information for my testimony and provide any questions.

[94:02] There any questions for Mr. Moroni from the board? My only comment was, I thought it was funny that the 1st business signature was Pedro's in favor. Yes. Alright. Well, thank you, Mr. Moroni. Nicholas, is there anything else you'd like to present to the board. Not at the moment, sir. Alright, great! So this time we will close for deliberation. Is there a motion. Other uppercur will make a motion to approve this License Approval. Is there a second to Member Carr's motion?

[95:02] I didn't. I just I I'm sorry I just. I'm sorry to interrupt you in 4 HI just Anita. I don't see any sort of legal recourse for us to say to not approve it. But I just have a lot of concern. Around the staffing, the training amendment and the amount of people in that location. I don't know that I can say that. So is there a way for me to abstain from this vote, or just? I can just say, may I don't. I don't have a second to that motion right now. Personally. I was thinking maybe we could deliberate a little bit and talk it through. because I agree with you, Member Epsilon. It feels risky but at the same time it does sound like they have some history of managing alcohol. They also took on a huge establishment like a very prominent location. I don't know that somebody would invest in themselves and put themselves out there if they weren't taking this like really serious, because that location is going to be watched. I mean, whether or not it's by law enforcement. It's going to be watched by the public and by the neighboring

[96:12] restaurants and stores. So I'm just conflicted, I guess. I also want to, of course, help. You know. I want them to stay in business. That's what that's that's better for our city. And so I don't want to slow down the progress of their business expanding. But there is something missing for me. It does seem like something's not quite in place. but I don't know. Does that anybody. I would agree with that. there's just not that 100% there. and it does make me nervous. Given the location, the large scale of the restaurant

[97:01] and the amount of staff. I'm wondering if I can amend Mike's motion with a condition on granting the license that we do check ins with them potentially for the next 6 months to see how things are going and how it's doing but yeah, I would amend Mike's her member cars motion to approve the license with a 6 month quick check in with the board. Looking just member of California. What? What is the purpose of the check-in? Do you think that? Could you just give me a little background on that. Yeah, just to take their pulse. See how they're doing. See if it's working out but if there's not a second to that amendment. it obviously dies.

[98:01] I just need a. And up. Go ahead, remember, that's all. Oh, sorry, Robert. Yeah, I think to Member Cal, or Chair Caliphana's point, checking their pulse, but also be checking on training that we haven't seen training. We haven't seen staffing. I think that I see a really good policy in place, and I do see people who are operators. But we don't see much training here in this packet. and just see how you know. When I was given the answer, 50, 70 people a day. 4 of 4 full time staff and 6 part time staff. I could. That's obviously manageable. That location with a 200 person capacity load and 2 floors to manage 2 floors, or that place I would like to check in with them for sure, I guess. Mr. Ramirez, wanna check in here. Yeah, before the Board acts on the amendment member car would have to 1st accept whether he would be willing to amend his motion. If he is not, then it dies, then chair confano can then make another motion. If member car accepts the amendment, then you can vote on that amendment.

[99:20] My member. Absalom also brought up a good point, and my question is. would a continuance be an option with them, buffing up their application, with training, information, and things like that. Stand by. let me check. In the meantime, Member California, I would accept your amendment if that is the choice that we decide to go down. Thanks. Buddy.

[100:07] Yeah, I think I mean, can we still deliberate while Mr. Ramirez is looking at this. Think, so, yeah. So just in terms of a continuation. If you know, we're talking about this license. See? Getting a license right now would help their business to to Member Robert's point. We do want more vibrant business. They seem that they're responsible in the sense. If we do take member cars, amended motion. It does give them the opportunity to prove what they say they can do. So continuance would hurt the business right, because they would be able to serve out calls on this month. or we're not. We're not even. We're not even together next month, so that it would hurt until August. So I think the the motion to to approve the license with chair. Caliphano's amendment to me gives the opportunity for them to prove what they're saying can be done.

[101:02] and just checking temperature of what Member Roberts is saying. I don't know if our newest member has anybody to chime in and and see what you have to say about this. Yeah, thank you. Member Member Hamilton. I you know I I agree with you there. I think a continuance would be pretty detrimental, especially during the summer months. Here. you know, Member Roberts made the great point on this location. There's going to be eyes on it right up right off the bat. And we I think they have gone into this hopefully, you've gone into the situation knowing that so to be able to to grant this license, I think, is gonna be important for them. But also they're they need to understand to realize that, you know. There, it's going to be important for them to get their ducks in a row and get fully staffed, and ready to serve that the to the number of patrons that are going to be, you know. Probably you know, mozing in for that location. So I think that that amended

[102:04] amended portion is is really the way to go. And I think if we wanna determine any points for check in, I think that's a great option as well cause we want to see the business succeed, but we wanna off obviously see them succeed in the right way. So. All valid points. Given that information, I would say that. and with Member Carr's accepting of the amendment to the motion. I would make the motion to approve the license with the condition of a 6 month. Check in with us, show training. See how they're doing, see where they may be struggling things like that. Is there a second. So to Mr. Ramirez Point I would be seconding member car as amended motion. and remember asking the second. Then. The shame. Okay for a record. We need a clear path forward.

[103:02] should. Should. It be needed. So we'll need to have She's 1 of those. Therapy state the motion? Yeah, I mean, I can restate the the motion, which is the motion that would make is that we approve this license with the condition that the the owners come back and report to us for the next 6 months at each beverage, licensing authority meeting for the next, I should say, for the next 6 Beverage authority meetings. since we don't have a meeting next month. so it'll be 7 months. I would second that motion to approve this License with forgot the word. with the expectation that they will be checking in with us for the next 6

[104:01] beverage licensing authority meetings. All in favor. Say, aye, member Califano, high. And perhaps am I. Member car. I. Member Roberts, I. Member Haggerty. I. Alright license approved. Good luck. Thank you. We prove to you that we come here. We'll be serious about everything from. Have fun during the holiday week next week. Thank you. Guys. Thank you. Mr. Sugars, we will contact you. Once we have the state license in hand, you're not allowed to sell or serve alcohol until such time that we have received back the State license. and we've done the premises. Inspection. Okay, sounds good with us. Thank you guys, Steve. But. Thank you.

[105:00] Moving on to agenda. Item number 9. Public hearing and consideration of an application filed on April 8, th 2024, from Tanaut, Inc. Doing business as Ironwood Barn Grill. 57, 0, 6, Arapaho Avenue, boulder, Colorado, 8 0 3 0 3, Tanya Bonino, 51 owner, and Noah Westbee 49% owner and registered manager with a business mailing address of 31, 40, Eastwood Court. older, Colorado, 8 0 3 0 4 for a new hotel and restaurant with optional premise, type, liquor licensing. You're here to speak to this matter. Please raise your hand alright. One moment.

[106:15] all right. Sure. Qualify. Oh. Sorry. Yup. Oh. I'm we're working on getting on. Yeah, okay. Just do that there and then. Hello, here we go. Okay. hey? A look. Your culture. China. Would you like me to swear in. Peace. Will both of you be providing testimony this afternoon. Yes, yes. Perfect. Alright! Whoever one wants to go first, st please raise your right hand and repeat after me. Aye, state your name. No Westbeet.

[107:01] Do solemnly swear or affirm. You sell me swelling, or affirm. That the testimony you are about to provide. The test morning. I'm bathroom fried. Before the beverage. Licensing authority. Before the Beverly licensing authority. Is true and correct. It's true, incorrect. Also can you state your name and spell your last name? Noah West bee WEST BY. And your mailing address. Please. With 3, 1, 4, 0 Eastwood port Boulder, Colorado, 8 0, 3 0, 4. Perfect. Alright! And Tanya, will you be speaking as well today? Perfect! Alright! Repeat after me. I state your name. Hi Tania, Benino. Do solemnly swear or affirm. Do solemnly swear, swear, or affirm. The testimony you're about to provide. But the testimony I am about to provide. Beverage, licensing authority. To beverage, licensing authority. It's true and correct.

[108:00] Is true and correct. Perfect. Can you also state your name, spell your last name, and give your address? Please. Tanya, Benino, BONI. NO. 31, 40 Eastwood Court boulder, Colorado, 8 0, 3 0, 4. Okay. And, Mr. Maroney, we have previously sworn you in. I'm you will remain sworn in for this as needs and desires, petitioning as well correct. Yes. Perfect. Thank you. Great. And since you're not represented by council, I'm going to go ahead and read the proceedings into the record. Hey! This is a public hearing before the beverage licensing authority of the city of Boulder to determine whether or not the application of Tenoa, Inc. Doing business as iron, wood, bar, and grill for a new hotel and restaurant with optional premise, type, liquor, license

[109:03] shall be granted or denied. This hearing is conducted pursuant to the laws of the State of Colorado, and the rules of the beverage. Licensing authority of the city of Boulder. The purpose of this hearing is to receive information, data, and testimony by interested parties. In order to enable this authority to make the findings, and to reach the conclusions required to be made by State law as to whether or not the license applied for shall issue. Interested parties are the applicant residents of the neighborhood under consideration, and the owners and managers of a business located in the neighborhood under consideration for purposes of determining who, determining who is an interested party at this hearing, the neighborhood under consideration is the neighborhood previously defined by the authority. the authority shall make a final determination of the affected neighborhood prior to determining whether the license shall be issued. Any interested parties may speak to the question of neighborhood designation, as well as other information relevant to the granting or denial of the application.

[110:00] A record is being made of these proceedings. Those who desire to be heard shall identify themselves by stating their name, spelling their last name, and stating their pertinent address. They shall also be sworn in by the Board Secretary. Is there any conflict of interest or ex parte communication from any of the Board members? Member Califano? No. Absalom, no! Number, car, now. Number, Roberts, No. Member Iger. Do you know. Great. And is there anyone here in the audience that wishes to speak to this agenda? Item, if you could please raise your hand. not seeing any alright, you may proceed. Hi, guys, thank you for having us today. We're really excited for this opportunity to be able to provide the restaurant service for the flatterance golf course we have owned and operated Katina in north boulder and boulder for coming up on 22 years now without a single liquor, license, violation.

[111:15] and save. Are there any questions? I guess I just have a question. Maybe Kristen can help me out with this. I can see the events face and some of the rules there. But when you operate a liquor license on a golf course like this, you're operating a hotel restaurant type license. But aren't you selling alcohol to take outside of a license premise you could help with that. I'm I'm trying to understand that. Yeah. Certainly. So what they're applying for is your regular hotel restaurant, but because of the type of facility they are, they are eligible for what is called an optional premises, where they have if you think of, like Chautauqua, for example, where they have the auditorium

[112:03] and the dining hall has the liquor license, but then you see different events around. At different times. They have an OP. They have the ability to have an optional premises, and they can turn those on and turn those off at any given time. This gives the golf course not only the ability to have, if granted, the liquor license in the clubhouse and on that surrounding patio, but on the grounds as well, and then they can also turn that off if they want to maybe perhaps entertain a special event, liquor permit, or something to that type? Does that help. That does help. I you know I had never seen a license like this before in my 5 years. So I just wanted to. I guess my big question. to Noah time would be just in terms. You've been running to Gaba with no problems on a golf course. Things change in terms of service and over service. I just wanna make sure that you have systems in place when it comes to over service. Especially people around the turn, and people come in already with drinks. Just wanna see what your systems are. I did read some in your policy, but

[113:07] I've I've been on all courses before and do you guys have a policy for over service? Yeah, of course. Just just like the gabbies, you know. 1st will be kind of a visual judgment. So make sure it speeches, kind of ready behavior. Anything like that. Second to that would be you know, offering a water and food to anybody in that situation. 3, rd to that be trying to find, you know, the appropriate transportation home for that person? Obviously, if there's if they're acting that way, we'd be cutting them off. And, you know, offering the alternatives we recently just discussed. Also, maybe not like bouncers. But what would you call it like for large events, probably extra security. And things like that. And on busy days or. Yeah, I appreciate that. I just understanding the the difference of this type of license is the responsibility, because a little bit bigger than you know what you've done in North Boulder. But thank you for answering my questions. I don't have any questions.

[114:13] Just to elaborate that. I think the expansiveness of the property itself does. We are working very closely with Tom, who's the golf course manager, the grounds keepers, the pop marshals a pace of play marshals and everybody else that will be on the ground during that time to keep an eye out as there is. You know there is that variance. Great Eddie. Get it! Other questions. If you could. I guess I'm sorry to have a question. Will you be serving alcohol on the course itself, like in terms of like, you know.

[115:02] working with the cart, you know, cart girl type of situation is that you're also gonna be handling that. Oh, yeah, so it'll be corrected. Correct person. But yeah, yeah, we'll be handling the card as well. We did purchase the beverage cart as well, so that will be going around certain hours, probably to peak hours. So. And while you're out on, you know, they're on the links right? How? How are you going to ensure that? You know you're serving to adults. You're you're valuing those licenses. Do you plan having like a remote scanner or something like that? Yes, yeah, we'd plan a remote scanner. The problem of the scanner is again, it would have to be on a network, not on an Internet. There's no Internet on certain parts of the golf course. So definitely traveling with the book itself, a very obviously trained employee would be, you know, in that role wrist bands, we could do multiple different things. But yeah, basically, the operator of the card itself will be very well trained and be able to be carding everybody as they go along with the book and everything.

[116:07] Thank you. Thank you. Any other question. Board, Members. If someone brings their own alcohol to golf with. how? What is your? How are you going to handle that? If we've got. We do have signage that we have already ordered, and everything there is no alcohol outside alcohol permitted. We did put a fine on there to hope to hopefully, you know, financial to deter that also. If you guys, I don't know how well you guys can see this. This is a proof of purchase sticker on the cans, you know, so that will define what is our product, and somebody bringing stuff in. And again, the cart person. the marshals. Everybody else will be aware that our product has a sticker on it, that they'll be looking for. Yeah, because they have not had a liquor license now, and quite some time, and I do. I am an avid golfer, and have gone out there a lot and seen a lot of cans in the trash cans and stuff like that. So that will be, you know.

[117:14] The policy will be instilling pretty heavily. Great. My only question was, if you could discuss a little bit about your petitioning packet. There. Garden. Patrick. Yeah. Well, I'm be glad to. Thank you. Again. Thank you. Board Patrick. Run again. President of alcohol petitioning services. Glad to do this one as well. We're hard to do a petition for a hotel and restaurant license with an optional premises permit for Tenoa, Inc. Doing business as Iowan. barring Grill and 57 0 6 Rapo Road in Boulder, same tip methodology, 21 years or older, and our circulators. They have our logo and apparel and name Tag.

[118:06] They had the map from the city of Boulder, where we could petition. They had a petition form with them a list of other hotel and restaurant with optional premises or not in the area and then tally she. So we conducted the petition on Monday, June 3, rd with 3 3 circulators, and Friday, June 7, th with one circulator. people were asked to to look at the form. Look at the petition. We're verbally told of the license type being applied for the location and then lend the location and other licenses in the area. each person that indicated that they we're 21 years or older. and they were located in the boundaries. And we're a resident of that neighborhood, or an owner or manager of your business initial initial tally was, we received 122 signatures. 117 in favor. 5 were opposed.

[119:01] about 96% in favor of 4% opposed the 5 reasons that were given about opposition. One person that trafficked about traffic. These were all from residents, all businesses were supportive. One person discussed about alcohol and driving was a concern, and 3 people did not give a reason why they opposed. They just said no. so we obtain 122 signatures. 189 people did not answer the door when we rang the doorbell 64 people were not willing to sign. 2 businesses were vacant or closed, and 39 people at businesses were no owner or manager was available so total of 416 attempts to get signatures of the 64 people that were not willing to participate. 37 did not have an opinion. 17 people were too busy. and 10 people were not interested in participating in signing. so we had a rate of 29.3 attempted contacts, which is about average above average 65 plus when we obtained an eligible signature where they sign, which is a bit about average little bit below.

[120:13] So it's actually a pretty decent turnout. There were 6 signatures that I felt were disqualified. 4 people have been listed to not indicate whether they were an owner manager. They were all in favor. By the way, one person had a business to not indicate their age. It's hard to, you know. It may have been over 21. But the form does not say so, and then one person in a resident denied their age, and they were in opposition. So if you take away the disqualifiers, you have a total of 116 total votes 112 in favor for post. So a little over 96% in favor. Still other 4 centers left over that were opposed. You know, if you want to take a look at the needs and desires definition about the same type of licensing that. Does this serve the neighborhood? Really, none of the answers really apply to that. So if you look at a sliding scale of what the result is, depend upon how you want to take those. No's anywhere between 96 pre, pretty much 96 to 100 were in favor. So it's really good still really good turnout. A lot of good positive feedback was obtained during this petition, and I think, it would result in in a favorable

[121:24] of new desires for this License Mission. Great! Thank. Thank you. Are there any questions from the board for, Mr. Maroney? See many? Alright great did you all have anything else that you'd like to present to us before we close for deliberation. Anything else. I think we're pretty good. Yeah, thank you. Trendy. I had one last question. Absolutely. I don't see anything about food. Will there be food

[122:02] offered for people along with? Is there gonna be food offered at the establishment as well, and on that dynamic cart. Yeah, yeah, the the carts doesn't have like a Walmart anything like that. But yeah, you know, we'll do snicker bars and different bars on the cart, but the restaurant itself is going to be 85 food. I'll call sales, so there'll be a lot of food we call upscale American menu. So, if somebody is there not. Cooper. During breakfast, lunch or dinner. Will there be food available if they're doing like an afternoon. Yeah, they'll always be fair there. Yeah, there'll be a full service kitchen available at all times. I know. Thanks. And open to the public, too. So not just golfers. Yeah. Assets. I wanna personally thank Kristen for all her hard work and helping help helping me with the process of the application. I feel. Yeah.

[123:05] I was gonna offer ownership. Thank you. It was a pleasure. Alright great. At this time we will close for deliberation. Is there a motion member? Califon thinks it all looks pretty put together and good. So Member Califon would make a motion to approve the slicker license. Remember, Roberts would second your motion to approve the slicker license. Great all in favor. Say, aye, member, Calif. Remember Aslem, I. Member car. I. Remember, Roberts, I. Member Haggerty. I. License approved. Thank you. Thank you all very much. Everyone see us. Like as. And thank you. Thanks. Don't drink and drive with your driver, either. Yes, I never drink my golf. I'm not that already.

[124:06] Highlight. Alright we'll be in touch with more liquor licensing information. Thank you very. Thank you very much. Have a good night, guys. Aye. Okay, moving on into agenda. Item number 10, public hearing and consideration of an application filed on April 17, th 2024, from 9, 21 bar Llc. Doing business as C. Bar. C. Burgers, 921 Pearl Street, boulder, Colorado, 8 0 3 0 2, Brian Dayton, 50% owner. Samuel Mccandless, 50% owner. an Anthony Ferris, registered manager with a business mailing address of 1,002 Walnut Street suite, 400 Boulder, Colorado, 8 0 3 0.

[125:07] Excuse me, 8,302 for a new hotel, restaurant and type liquor license. I do know that the attorney for this matter is present. One moment. breathe. Well. Still hasn't stuck you out. Can you hear me? Okay, perfect. So my name is Veronica Beckchio. I am an attorney from Clark Hill, representing 921 bar Llc. And I'm here today to request a continuance on this hearing on behalf of my client. He is in need of additional time to supplement his application, and we are looking at being available for the August 21st hearing. So just in the next couple of months.

[126:11] Miss Victor, can we just get you to record your appearance real quick with your id number? Oh, sure! Veronica Vecchio, our number 3, 7, 2, 2, 5, attorney for 9, 21 bar Llc. And attorney from Clark Hill. Great. Thank you. Can you give us a little background as to the reasoning for the ask for the continuance. Sure. My clients is basically working on supplementing his application. His financial disclosures. Need more robust information. And he's been compiling and working on that he's had some delay in opening as well, and so his the investment amount by the Llc. Who's investing in the company has changed

[127:00] since our original submission. And so, because they're doing more work and making some changes and delay their opening, we're just looking at. We'd prefer to provide all the information you all need, and do that and we'll be able to do that by the August date. But we just didn't want to push things and and try to try to appear today. Great. Thank you. Kristen, how's the august agenda looking. The august agenda is able to accommodate this application. Great with the board. Is there a motion to accept the continuance for this agenda? Item. Member. Carl will make a motion to accept the continuance. Remember apps, and we'll select the motion to consumers. All in favor. Say, aye, member Califano. Aye. We're absolutely not.

[128:01] Member car. I. Member Roberts, I. Member Haggerty. I. All right, Miss Vecchio. We will see you in August. Not that we won't see you in a moment again. Thank you so much. Alright! Alright! And I am Miss Becky. I'm just going to stop your video, since you'll be up with us. Oh, no! Actually, you are the next one. Apologies. agenda, item number 10, public hearing and consideration of an application filed on April 26, th 2024 from Colorado, Chautauqua Association doing business as Cca. The General store, 100 clematis drive Boulder, Colorado, 8 0 3 0 2. Jason Hill Coo Shelly Benford, CEO and Gabriella Gonzalez Cfo. With a business mailing. Address of 900 baseline road boulder, Colorado, 8 0 3 0 2 for a new fermented malt beverage and wine retail off premise type, liquor license.

[129:08] If you're here for this agenda. Item, please raise your hand one moment. and coming in wonderful check, Halfano, I will swear in. Thank you. Once. Mr. Hill, would you raise your right hand and repeat after me? I state your name. Hi. Jason Hill. Do solemnly swear or affirm. Do you solemnly swear or affirm. The testimony that I'm about to give. The testimony that I'm about to give.

[130:00] Before the beverage. Licensing authority. For the beveraging license, authority. It's true and correct. To correct. Thank you. Mr. Maroney is here for this item as well. So, Mr. Maroney, you remain sworn in, and then I'll let is Vekia record. Her parents. Alright. Thank you. Yes, thank you very much. Again. My name is Veronica Vecchio. I'm an attorney from Clark Hill, Bar number 3, 7, 2, 2, 5, appearing today on behalf of Colorado Chautauqua Association for their generous general stores. Application for an off premises, fermented malt beverage and wine license at 100 clematis drive in Boulder 8 0, 3 0, 2, and, as mentioned, I have 2 witnesses today. Appearing. One sec. Real quick. Since you're representing as counsel, would you be willing to wave the reading of the proceedings into the record. Yes, I do.

[131:01] And is there any ex parte communication or conflict of interest from any of the Board members? Member? Califano? No. Remember Absalom. Member, card, now. Member Roberts, No. I'm raggedy now. And is there anyone in the attendees list that wishes to speak to this agenda? Item, if you could please raise your hand. not seeing any. All right, Miss Fekir, please continue. Thank you. So I was just stating. We have 2 witnesses today present. Jason Hill, chief operating officer, and Patrick Maroney of alcohol petitioning services. And 1st I'll call Mister Hill and Mister Hill, if you could please state your name and spell your last name for the record. Sure Jason Hill last name HILL. And what is your age at home? Address. I'm 41 years old, and home address is 747 North Downing Street, in Denver, Colorado.

[132:01] And please provide a brief background of your education and experience in management. Sure. I have a bachelor's degree in natural resource sciences from many moons ago. I have a master's degree in public policy, with a specialization in environmental policy. There have been several twists and turns in in my career. But I've spent the better part of the last 1213 years in nonprofit leadership. working across a few different industries. Most notably land conservation, historic preservation, property management, and the last 7 or so years. In hospitality and the concerts and events. Space. I currently manage approximately 40 full-time staff and indirectly oversee between 20 and and 60 seasonal staff. At Chautauqua. I've been in various bands and management positions for about 18 years.

[133:06] And Colorado Chautauqua Association is a 501 c charitable nonprofit organization with no shareholders. Is that correct? That's correct. And there is a board of directors correct. Correct. And which members of the Board are primarily responsible for and involved with liquor licensing for CCA. So that'd be myself. Jason Hills, chief operating officer Shelly Benford, our chief executive officer as well. And what is your role as the chief operating off officer? What are your responsibilities. Sure. I I oversee the strategic planning, financial management and and operations of our hospitality departments. Concerts and events historic preservation facilities and and grounds and and retail operations. I also serve as the liaison

[134:01] sort of liaison role with our restaurant operators. The dining hall, 3 leaf concepts. This is a very close partnership that we have with them a little more than just landlord. As as the dining hall is our dedicated caterer and concessionear for our events, for hundreds of private events and and concerts that we host every year. So I've I've been indirectly involved to varying degrees with the liquor licensing, and alcohol services at at the various sites. I've managed both here in Colorado and on the East coast where I'm from. if approved, this will be the most direct hands-on management I I've had with a liquor license. as you can see today. We've we've hired you counsel to ensure that. We're we're doing all the right things in our pursuit of this application. And and and you know, from the application process to the petitioning process, making sure that we're up to date on laws and licensing matters, and and all of the pretty involved staff training that that we've done and and are gearing up to continue to do.

[135:08] Perfect, and if you could just give the panel a brief summary of the concept of the general store, what do you all sell? And what's it like. Sure. Yeah, hopefully, you've been there before. It's a pretty special place. The general store is a well, be honest with you. Sort of break even operation for us that has always been thought of in as an an amenity, if you will, for the hundreds of thousands of visitors that and event, patrons and and lodging guests and that we see every year. So we have an F and B arm to the general store. Primarily ice cream, coffee, package, sandwiches and salad energy snacks galore and we also have a retail side that serves as a gift shop. So Brandon merchandise boutique gifts. Again, the the general concept of the store is is to satisfy

[136:04] the needs of the different types of guests that we have. You know we have people renting our cottages and staying overnight, mostly leisure leisure stays. But we also have a lot of corporate stays at Chautauqua. We have hikers, recreationists, we have historians, concert goers, and so on. So the in the the intra, you know, introducing the beer and wine sales off premise. Is came from You know the the need that we've heard time and time again from our lodging guests, and also the local community that would love to have a more convenient place to purchase outlog beverages on their way home, or on their way to their cottage for the evening, and and so we decided to do it. And when did the general store 1st open? I know it's been around for a while. It has had a lot of different lives over a hundred years, but over 100 years. But the the store used to be operated by 3 leaf concepts the Downing Hill operators. They did not exercise their their right to extend the lease in 2019. So Cca took over the store in 2019. So that's it's this is our

[137:20] Do the math, I guess. 4th year and we started at very end of 2,019. So I'm gonna say, 4 years. And before that, but like we're talking over a decade. Perfect. How many people are employed at the general store currently. At the store alone. We have one full time manager. One part time year round, Supervisor, and we range from 2 to 6 seasonal part time staff in the store. And what are the days and hours of operation. So seasonally they change a little bit. Our high season from May through October. It used to be like September. Now it's feels like it's through October. Is from 9 Am. To 7 Pm. Actually, it's 7 pm. On concert days. On other days it's we close it 6

[138:12] and January, through March, and also November through December, where we close at 4 Pm. So we're open 9 Am. To 4 Pm. On on those months, in those months. Thanks, and where will the alcohol be stored on premises? And I mentioned it. It's it's exclusively wine and beer, so I might say alcohol. But where are you planning on storing it? Yup as identified on the diagram. Beer and wine will be stored in the north east corner of the store with there's a beverage cooler, and we'll have a wine rack there. We will also, as indicated in in the application overstock, which is not gonna be a lot will be stored as as indicated on the diagram in in the back, behind the pos, in in a locked cabinet.

[139:03] Okay, and if you could describe training and what what you've already had done, and what you plan to do in the future, and to make sure sales occur legally and to anyone who's over 21. Sure. Yeah, you know, we've developed on site trainings, policies and procedures. We've also spent time with you consulting with you. We have standing meetings, something that we call Stand up that we will use for spot trainings. Just so we do it for safety. Now we're gonna include this. It's a way to just always keep safety. And now, you know the the importance of you know, doing our due diligence and alcohol sales in these spot trainings. We're also we. So we had all, all of our executive team. The 3 people mentioned earlier, as well as our general manager and our store manager. went through Patrick's training course. Which was really great and a refresher for some for some people and and new for others.

[140:13] so we we've purchased id guides a lot of talk about. I ids I've listened into this whole conversation and it's been really interesting, and I think that we're going to pursue a a scanner. a as well. And I'd like to get the Cadillac of that, but I'm not sure what that is. So I I need to figure that out. and you know. But that's just one piece of it. There's all of our training will will be focused on both that and and understanding, you know, and making evaluations of individuals that enter our establishment. To ensure that that sale makes sense for for lack of better work. So no, I think what we're we've decided we're not going to accept vertical ids, and we're going to id everyone, regardless of age or or hair color.

[141:10] As a precaution, and and of course, everyone that that is employed to work in the store will will go through Patrick's trainings. We really would like those trainings. So that's we'll be using. I know. In in the event something goes wrong. What would be the consequences? For an employee violates any of your policies for serving alcohol, or selling alcohol to a minor. Yeah. Well, you know, I think 1st thing we do is evaluate what happened and understand what happened, and the severity of what happened, and and that could lead to consideration of a variety of things from further training to immediate. You know, termination. You know, we also had our head of Hr. Attend the Patrick's training. She's been hospitality industry for a while.

[142:05] And it was helpful to make sure that she's up to speed on this as we navigate, you know. Any staffing issues? So you know, that's our general course of action is always to understand what happened, and and make decision from there. Perfect and I don't think we've had testimony on this yet, but was a poster posted on the premises, advertising a hearing today to public. Yes. And who posted the premises. Our general store manager. Her name is Gina Dow. Perfect. And do you know, if the poster was is currently still on premises. I do. Yes. Okay. And do you know the date when it was originally posted. June 13.th Perfect. I'm we've completed our round of testimony, and I tender the witness to licensing authority for further questions. If there are any.

[143:05] Great. Thank you. Are there any questions for Mr. Hill from the board? I do have a question Mr. Hill. So you know, knowing that you're in Chaka Park there, and there's that great lawn and everything. People are there playing Frisbee and everything else. How would you. I guess, or help a help? The community avoid having people buy alcohol from your you know store, and then take it right out to the lawn. Start drinking it. you know risks of, you know people who are already intoxicated, coming there buying, you know, having alcohol bring their own alcohol. How? How have you thought about that? Yeah, it's a fair question. So a few different things. A number one signage, right? The obvious. Thing. So we have a signage plan on the premise to ensure that we're communicating to people that it is illegal activity to drink in public, for instance, on the green

[144:09] the other thing that we do is, you know, we're we're a big concert venue, as you you all probably know. And we have a we have a really great relationship with police Chief Fire Chief. I I meet with them on a regular basis. And we we encour, we always encourage. We love their presence. On site and and so we encourage patrols at the site, particularly on really busy days. And and we also have really close relationships with the city. Right? We're under a city lease. Actually, the city owns the land that that we operate on. And so we have very close relationships with Parks and Rec and Osmp as well. And so, you know, it's we have not. We don't. We have not had any issues at Chautauqua. With this, and we like to keep it that way. So you know, I think it requires some extra vigilance.

[145:09] you know. But I think we'll continue to do the things that we do, with the addition of the signage to ensure that people are being safe and following loss. So hope that answer your question. Thanks. W. Would you know? Just as a follow up like Are you like if you were to see someone take out all outside your store, and, you know, crack up its beers and take out to their friends like. Is that would that be a situation? Where? What would you do in that situation. Proto the protocol in that situation would be to notify management immediately. We try. We always. We have a significant amount of management on staff, from managers to general managers that are one general manager that oversees hospitality, and one that oversees public events, and then another that more generally oversees grounds, and so all those folks report into me. But the 1st thing to do would be to notify manager, and

[146:09] then we would evaluate the situation. We would probably most likely depending on. If PE people felt safe, we always make sure that people feel safe. Approaching others, we would approach that person to let them know if we didn't, for whatever reason, then immediately we would call the police and make sure the police are notified in doing that. So we think that a lot of times we can handle those things in house. And we've learned our lesson sometimes that people can. You know, people are crazy sometimes. And so we we sometimes you know, we'll just defer to the police. So. I I believe I saw in in in you may have been over that. I'm sorry. I see a lot of applications that you hire outside security occasionally, like when there's concerts and things like that. That's correct. Do we do? We have depend we. We actually scale it based on attendance. But most our shows are sold out these days. And so in the auditorium at least

[147:02] and so we we have like 7, 7 to 9 security personnel around the auditorium, and we also have usually have a roamer. You know the store is a little bit separate from where the the auditorium is, but we also have a rumor. So yes, thank you. That that is another sort of part of our operation. Again, the the we, we think that the the real traction here is our our lodging guests that are staying in private units, and that's where majority of our sales will come from. And we're predicting about 1010, no more than 10% of sales in the store. We sell a lot of ice cream and coffee. So. Thank you. One last quick question I had as a follow up to that, and you may have stated this earlier, and I missed it. But

[148:01] when you get a group of guests come in. maybe not guests, but say, they're looking young, and there's maybe 2, 3 of them, and one of them goes to buy, and they are of age. Are you checking everyone's Id at that point, or just the individual that made the purchase. No, we would check everyone's idea. They came in together, and they were standing there especially, you know. I think, that there's some there's some in interpretation. Right? I I think we try to keep a watchful. We'll we'll keep a watchful eye on anyone purchasing alcohol, and if we see people fumble. The second. Anyone touches alcohol as they come in the store and approach the counter. They they all need to be id. Great. Thank you for that. Any other questions from the Board not seeing any. Miss Becky, you may proceed. Yeah, I'd like to call my second witness, Patrick Maroney, of alcohol petitioning services, Mr. Maroney, if you could state your name and spell your last name for the record.

[149:02] Patrick Maroney, MARO NEY. And if you could state the name and the nature of your business. Alcohol petitioning services, provide neighborhood reports. President of the company. And what services did you provide the Chakra general store. We did a neighborhood survey on Monday, June 10, th with 5 circulators. And can you describe the method and process of conducting that survey. Again. All all of our circulators are 21 years or older. With our with our logo of our company on name tags and shirts and hats, and everything like that. They went around the neighborhood from the designed or the designated neighborhood from the city. The map that was provided to us. With as soon as circulators, they have the petition where people can either sign in favor or opposition for this License. that a challenge sheet of people that did not want to participate in a list of other Fmb. And wine retailers in the area.

[150:03] Each person was a that was talked to. That was in the area in the neighborhood, that is, we've shown the petition form. They were asked to read the form. They were verbally told of what kind of license was being applied for, and the location, which pretty much everybody knows where this is, you know, in the neighborhood each person assigned indicate they were a resident or a business owner manager within the designed or a designated area, and was 21 years or older each signature was voluntarily provided without any influence over circulator. We are, do not guarantee results. We are nonbiased. and we just want to tally the information given to us. So that was our methodology. You know what was the initial tally. We received 122 centers, 15 from businesses, and 107 from residents of the 100 2,304 were in favor. 18 were opposed.

[151:01] And what were the reasons for the objections. Several. There was a lot of different reasons outlined in my report. One person again. These were all from residences except for one one person said, because there was camp camp had kids in the area so worried about kids. One person was worried about glass bottles and not being allowed in the city parks. One person was concerned about restaurant next door, worried about drunkenness in the park. One person said it did not seem to fit the intended atmosphere of the stock, one was disrupted. The person has said, they already have the dining hall I'm assuming now call character of the general store was another issue raised. and once that there's a bar there as well. One person said, there's too many parties and children present. and one person said they support the Independent Liver store versus a new Fmb. Line retailer, and then one and then 9. 1 business and 8 residents did not give a reason so total of 18.

[152:04] And outstanding those objections. What was the percentage of those in favor versus against. Well outside of the needing desires, percentage was 99% in favor. One opposed, 1% opposed. If you remove needing desires as from those for that reasons. And based upon your survey. Do you believe that the needs and desires of the neighborhood would be met by this new liquor license? I do again. We went to 420 residents and businesses up to 122 signatures, 248 residences to not answer the door. 38. We're not willing to sign. 4 businesses were close or vacant. 8 managers or 8 businesses did not have a manager and owner. So 420 attempts to get signatures 122, I think, was a good amount of signatures. Percent of again, if you remove needs and desires. 99% were in favor. So I do believe this is favorable for new FM. b. 1 retail.

[153:00] Perfect and at this time I tender the witness to the authority for further questions. If any. Are there any questions from the Board? From Mr. Moroni? Not seeing any. Thank you very much, Mister Romani. Thank you. And just a brief concluding statement that the Colorado Chautauqua Association's general store's application for an off-premises, beer and wine liquor license is in order the applicant is experienced, has a extensive knowledge of the Chautauqua area of what the neighborhood needs are, we heard, testimony that the needs and desires of the area would be met by granting the license. For those reasons we request that Colorado to talk association, receive an issue there off premise, beer, and wine, liquor license. Thank you.

[154:00] Great. Thank you. At this point we will close for deliberation. Is there a motion member? Califano would move to approve the license? It seems like a very put together. Well put together. Application. Member Bar would second that motion. All in favor. Say, aye, member, Calif. Y. Remember, absolute, lie. Emperor car I. Member Roberts, I. Member Hackerty, I. License approved. Thank you. Thank you, appreciate it. All right. Moving on in our agenda this afternoon. Agenda. Item number 12 matters from the deputy city attorney. Nothing from me. Member Haggerty, welcome to the Board. I anticipate that you've received training from Kristen, but if there are any legal issues that know.

[155:08] No, so we literally just got this the end of last week. Brand, new. So I sent him a brand new email with all of the the Ca, the bla or or no. I'm sorry, Caitlin did. I did the clab. My apologies? I I don't know what Caitlin sent him. but we literally just got this like towards the end of last week, so there isn't time, and we're planning on scheduling something soon. Okay. Just couldn't. Couldn't wait till August. Yeah. Fair. Alright! Well, if there's anything that you need, obviously you can reach out to Kristen or to me with any legal questions. but nothing else for me. Thank you, everyone. I I have a question for you, Mr. Ramirez. you know we talked a little bit about this at our Ed. Well, I can't or retreat. And you you you made some you told us how we should be, you know, making our motions and everything, any areas that we can prove in that and like, are we doing a little bit better in that area?

[156:10] You're doing a whole lot better. If you ever see Kristen's face kind of contorted a little bit. That's how you cause she is. She is the experts on Robert's rules of procedure. Here's the thing. Don't worry so much about it. If there is something that you have done that might affect the proceeding later. That's when I'll step in. But aside from that, you guys are doing great. Yeah, when I see your camera come on, I'm like, what did I do now? Yeah. Okay, we'll continue on with my non twisting face to agenda. Item number 13 matters from the licensing clerk. As you can see, there are no neighborhood boundary settings for the August 21, st 2024. Bla hearing

[157:09] there are, excuse me, 3 transfers that are being administratively processed, Usaba downtown faux kitchen bar, and grill, and Larry's protos. There were no Colorado liquor sales, rooms for consideration for breweries, wineries, and distilleries. and in the packet you were provided the special event liquor permit list as well as the liquor license renewals list sent as a reminder by consensus. You voted to not have the July. 17th meeting, due to lack of applications as well as staffing considerations for a week-long training out of the area. Does anyone have any questions for licensing staff.

[158:01] I have just one quick side question. Kristen, are you available for a phone call? It shouldn't take more than 5 min after the hearing. Absolutely Are you? You have an office line. Yeah, I'm I'm here in the office just for hearing. I don't have my background on in zoom. I just have my cabin background instead. Great. I'll call you right after. Nothing else. We'll move on to the last agenda item of the evening agenda. Item number 14 matters from the chair and members of the authority. Anything from the board. No just welcome, welcome, Brendan! Yes, welcome. Europe! Thanks. Everyone. Glad to be here. And the good hearings. Yeah. it's exciting. Yeah, right? Right in the deep end. I love it. Awesome. Absolutely make a motion to adjourn. What?

[159:01] Oh, real quick. We need to have a conversation about a couple things from earlier in the in the meeting today. One that's about scanners and the process we should take on, you know, if we want to take that on. And then the amending city code, that is, let me just finish that thought. And then the second part was around accepting. I believe it was accepting other trainers or tips trainers. We wanted to make something more official in that in that area. Yeah, I was gonna leave that up to the August second. So we would have time to kind of think about it. Maybe do some investigation in the processes with it. See what we're actually getting into. I don't know how the rest of the board feels about that. I had thought that we discussed that already at the retreat we discussed, or whenever we 1st got brought up, we said we'd be willing to under, to to accept other state approved

[160:04] vendors in terms of screening. just because of what's happening to. I thought we had already tab. I thought we had already kind of said we would do that in a sense that we would accept it. Well, we're accepting them, but I. We have to change the policy. As I made the mistake of saying tips only, but it was really we accept all 3 tips was just the most popular. I feel like. Yeah, yeah. And I mean, I thought we. But i i i'm with you. The scanner thing, I think, is a big issue to discuss cause. That's a huge, different thing. Kristen. Certainly. So just as a as a quick overview as to what is allowed for alcohol trainings. The State have per state liquor code enroll. There are requirements as to what is allowed at the State level for

[161:01] responsible what they call responsible vendor training. Right? And you have to be certified by the State in order to allow that of course, the normal ones that we see are tips serve safe. for quite a while. Now we've seen abt with Mr. Maroney. But there's a list where they could get training from any State approved certified agency. Some places have their police departments or sheriff's departments as the certified trainers. There's a couple of other jurisdictions around the State. Quite a bit. So just know that it just may not always look like tips when you're getting things in your packet. But if you guys want to make something more set in stone, that would be something that Mr. Ramirez could advise on. I just kind of wanted to put that framework out there. As far as that. It must be a State approved vendor. By State law.

[162:03] I have nothing to add to that. But I did. Wanna talk about what member car brought up, which was the issue of potentially changing the ordinance. my recommendation would be to perhaps appoint 2 of you to make a a committee to look into the matter, to do some research, see what what other jurisdictions are doing. and then report back to the board. And we've talked about why, 2 would would would work because of the issues with the open meetings. Law! The sunshine law. so if that is is something that you wanna look into. That's that's at least my suggestion that 2 of you decide. You know, we're gonna be the the subcommittee.

[163:08] And we're gonna look into this and then kind of report back to the rest of the board. Do we wanna talk about making a subcommittee right now? I, personally. just, I think that this is a huge change in a requirement for licenses in terms of every single license requiring some sort of scanner product. And I will also say this, after reading the Tower, I'll have to write around the fake ids. I think there's some confusion there, too. I think when you talk about you can operate a compliance check with a fake Id. But if the fake Id is good enough, and you have a book next to it. you can still accept that Id. You cannot put that burden on a licensee. It says it in the Colorado State code. So I think we have a lot of things to discuss around those 2 things the fake ID thing and the scanner thing. And both of those are large large issues. And if we're going to take those on, it's going to be a big thing because it's a big change, both of them

[164:11] the understanding of it. So maybe we we set a time in August to really discuss it rather than set up some subcommittees right now. maybe. Can we put something in the agenda at the end. No tension. Yeah. Yeah, that's what I thought you were saying. Matthew, I think that's a good idea. Yeah, 15. And we could take. Yeah, we can take the time. Each of us can look into the fake, Id saying. and the scanner thing, and at the end of the hearing in August the 5 of us really can have a discussion about it. Well, we also have to consider the financial burden that this may be putting on establishments. I know that some of those nicer ones are not cheap. And you know, do we look at? Is there potential? And I may be dreaming pie in the sky right now? But is there potential? For like a city fund to assist with these or something. Oh, were you laughing at me, Kristen?

[165:00] I thought he was. True. That was. I thought he was stopping at the city fund thing. Calm. tap, dump. Timing was so perfect on that one. Was. I know that I've I've heard from establishments that they're like. I can't afford one, and they're, you know. It's a small mom and pop shops. But I do know that there are some, and I'm just glad they're using anything at all. But they're using that mobile app on their phone. I I think it's. There's options. Agenda item and and have a deeper discussion on it. And if we can all commit to just having, you know, doing some research on our own outside of this, and having at least some some framework of having a conversation that'd be good, and we decide we need a subcommittee of some sort. We can always figure that out next meeting. Yeah, can I ask you all do some research on the fake id thing? Because what is happening? Our community I agree with also, right what's happening. But like there is to me a a weird line around that.

[166:01] It's a strange line around. If you hand me a perfect fake idea as an operator. There shouldn't be a burden on you as the operator. If it's perfect, fake Id, and it scans style another thing to research just something for us to think about for August. Just on that topic. Kind of what I was hearing was not that they were perfect fake ids, but that they were ids that like were clearly like fake, and it was just that the Birth date match and said they were over 21. And that was just my understanding of what also, Rick said I could be wrong about that. But that that's what I understood. It was bought. I mean, I've I've looked at books with fake ids before, and I've seen ones that are obviously ridiculous and ones that are perfect in a sense, and there's everything between. So I you know I don't have the solution. I think the scanner idea is a big part of it. but I'd hate to see operators get persecuted for, you know, taking. But I also want our community representative. So again, I wanna I wanna think about this further for sure.

[167:07] The big issue that officer Rect was saying, is that they're just saying, oh, they've shown me an Id. It says they're over 21. They're not verifying. It looks like them if it's even looks fake. Right. There's no book there cause. The law does say you have to have a book with you. There just be. And like. Got it so. Yep. With that. But that's a bigger issue than the scanners I feel, because it's like, How do you get establishments to not do that? And that's why, I said, the only way I think that that's possible is, once they get a violation. But again, I don't want to send Officer Rex operatives out using fakes all the time. So. I know that's a tough one. It's a tough one for me. But I the concern coming from Officer Reggae, means a lot to me, so I want to think about it. With that I'll continue my motion to adjourn.

[168:00] Denver, California would second all in favor, say, aye, Member California. Number as well, am I. Number car. I. Remember, Roberts, I. Never, Haggerty. I. We are adjourned at 5 51 pm. Thank you, everyone. And Kristen, I'll give you a call real quick. Here. Thank you. Remember. How are you? Welcome? Good to meet everyone. July, August.